The Michael Knowles Show - Daily Wire Backstage： Memorial Day Edition

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00:00:37.940 Hey, Michael Knowles here.

00:00:38.940 The latest episode of Daily Wire Backstage Memorial Day Edition is right around the corner, and you don't want to miss it.

00:00:45.040 Join me, Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, and the God King Jeremy Boring, along with awesome guests on this special Memorial Day episode.

00:00:53.800 Take a listen.

00:00:56.980 Sometimes fake laughs are better than others.

00:01:14.780 Welcome to the Daily Wire Backstage Memorial Day Edition.

00:01:18.640 I am Jeremy Boring, God King around these parts.

00:01:21.240 I'm rich, handsome, powerful, beautiful, and a coward, which is why we don't celebrate me this time of year.

00:01:27.600 We celebrate actual men who actually sacrificed for their country.

00:01:32.600 And today we will be talking about Memorial Day.

00:01:35.560 Here to help me with that endeavor, Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, and, that's right, she's lovely, Elisha Krause.

00:01:44.300 Elisha, how are you?

00:01:45.600 I'm good.

00:01:46.120 I'm good to see you.

00:01:46.660 Apparently now I work for a fake news organization, because I think most of the way that you introduce yourself is not true, just saying.

00:01:52.380 You're right, I'm brave.

00:01:53.340 I'm so brave.

00:01:55.080 We are going to be taking subscriber questions, and how do you become a subscriber?

00:01:59.320 Everyone always wants to know.

00:02:00.580 They have to head over to dailywire.com.

00:02:02.300 And if, of course, they are fans of the Tumblr, we have that special happening, so you can get a his and her Tumblr or a COVID neighbor Tumblr.

00:02:11.220 I really think that we should be making masks.

00:02:13.000 I don't know why we haven't done this yet, but the double Tumblr deal is back.

00:02:16.820 And, of course, that's it when you become an all-access member for things like the fun discussions that we have.

00:02:22.020 We're going to be having a discussion with me and the guys after the show.

00:02:24.460 I'll be doing another one on Friday as well about the slow reopening of America, thank God.

00:02:28.680 So head on over to dailywire.com.

00:02:30.720 If you're not an all-access member, go to dailywire.com slash subscribe, so you'll get your two Tumblrs and 15% off using the coupon code DWACCESS right now.

00:02:41.960 And if you're already a subscriber, be sure to head over to dailywire.com slash shows and find the chat box for backstage,

00:02:48.960 and I'll be taking your questions from the comfort of my lovely office.

00:02:53.340 Thank you, Alicia.

00:02:54.220 Alicia, we actually were going to turn out a Daily Wire COVID mask, but then I asked her to send me over the first draft, and it was crocheted.

00:03:04.320 And I thought, what kind of dog and pony show do you think we're running here, Flavin?

00:03:09.660 We're going to be talking about Memorial Day.

00:03:11.520 We're going to be joined in that discussion by our friends Jocko Wilnick and Gary Sinise later on in the program.

00:03:17.280 Before we get to all of that, though, today is an amazing day, not as amazing as it could have been.

00:03:23.580 Hopefully, Saturday or Sunday will be more amazing still.

00:03:26.780 I still want to talk about it, though, and that is the greatest American, Elon Musk, is right on the precipice today of returning Americans to space from America on an American rocket for the first time in over a decade.

00:03:39.120 And since we won't be together to talk about it Saturday or Sunday, and it's so momentous, I thought it would just be fun to talk about something positive.

00:03:47.880 I see this as the greatest moment of innovation that's happened probably in my lifetime.

00:03:54.440 I couldn't be more excited about it.

00:03:56.460 I worship at the feet of Elon Musk.

00:03:58.480 I think he's the only living person with a true vision for the future who's willing to put his money where his mouth is and to take responsibility.

00:04:08.720 Very dangerous thing to put people in space.

00:04:11.720 The two astronauts who are going up in the Dragon capsule, very brave people.

00:04:17.300 There's a chance of failure.

00:04:18.540 Anytime you strap yourself basically to an exploding rocket and hurl yourself out of the atmosphere, it's a very high-risk endeavor.

00:04:25.600 It's not a joke.

00:04:26.800 It's not TV.

00:04:28.040 It's the real world, real stakes.

00:04:30.660 And yet, you have these brave men and you have this amazing innovator.

00:04:34.200 The thing about Elon Musk is, if you saw the story today, he said, listen, I am the chief designer for SpaceX.

00:04:44.060 So if things go according to plan, everyone at SpaceX and NASA deserves the credit.

00:04:49.900 If it fails, only I get the blame.

00:04:52.840 And you think, that is so refreshing in this day and age.

00:04:55.500 There's almost no one who's willing, especially in corporate America, who's willing to just step up and say, yep, humans are risking their lives.

00:05:02.860 Their lives and the success of this mission are 100% my responsibility.

00:05:09.380 Because of that and because of his vision, I'm confident the guy is going to succeed here.

00:05:13.060 Are you guys tracking the story the way I am?

00:05:14.760 Jeremy, I can't believe Elon Musk fooled you like that.

00:05:18.160 That's obviously absurd.

00:05:19.520 Oh, it just coincidentally, whoopsie-daisy, they couldn't do the launch today.

00:05:23.700 Elon Musk, he's a great innovator, sure.

00:05:25.500 He's the greatest marketer of his generation.

00:05:27.540 Frankly, he probably doesn't even have a rocket.

00:05:29.520 This was probably just a big publicity stunt to sell more cars.

00:05:32.460 Okay.

00:05:32.660 Yeah, he's probably selling monorails to Springfield.

00:05:35.160 No, I think he actually is one of the greatest marketers of his generation.

00:05:39.020 Absolutely.

00:05:39.540 But he is pretty amazing.

00:05:41.480 I like that he's one of the few people in America that still just does what he wants to do.

00:05:46.040 In not just a licentious way, but in like an actually productive, creative way.

00:05:50.560 He doesn't let politics interfere with him.

00:05:52.460 He just goes ahead and does it.

00:05:53.640 So I think probably the conspiracy theories are not true, and he will launch it on Saturday.

00:05:58.540 Yeah.

00:05:58.620 I just, I think going into space is everything.

00:06:01.920 I really do.

00:06:02.560 I don't think, I think the human life depends on frontiers.

00:06:05.600 I think that the idea that the marketplace can be a frontier, the idea that we're going

00:06:10.280 to go inward and get smaller and smaller is going to do it.

00:06:13.340 I just don't think so.

00:06:14.240 We're physical bodies.

00:06:15.260 We got to go somewhere.

00:06:16.300 We got to expand.

00:06:17.280 I believe that the solar system is colonizable.

00:06:20.060 I think that we'll do it over time, but we've got to be working on it all the time.

00:06:24.680 And without vision, the people perish.

00:06:26.500 And if you don't have a vision, an actual vision outward, your vision turns inward and

00:06:31.180 everything curdles.

00:06:32.340 I personally am looking forward to living in my basement, wearing a mask, but that's

00:06:36.340 just me.

00:06:36.900 I mean, I think that not everybody can do that.

00:06:38.820 Not everybody's set up for that.

00:06:39.920 The rest of us have got, we've got to get on the move.

00:06:42.680 Well, when you look at the sort of videos that trend and get everybody together, it is

00:06:47.440 amazing today.

00:06:48.180 We all sat down, waited for the SpaceX launch, and obviously it didn't happen.

00:06:52.080 So now we have to wait.

00:06:52.800 But when I was sitting there, I thought, wow, this hasn't really happened in the last,

00:06:56.360 what, 20 years or more, that we're all looking at something positive.

00:07:00.520 We're all actually excited about something, whereas the day before, all of us were also

00:07:04.800 looking at the same video, but it was of some crazy lady and some crazy man yelling at each

00:07:09.420 other in Central Park.

00:07:10.480 And then we're all yelling at each other about that.

00:07:12.740 I think much better to have that positive vision looking outward that maybe we can all

00:07:16.720 get behind together.

00:07:17.800 Yeah.

00:07:18.120 We'll find a way to screw it up.

00:07:19.180 Well, we'll definitely find a way to screw it up.

00:07:21.480 I mean, there will be racial divisions over SpaceX.

00:07:24.540 Within the next five minutes, somebody will have done something with this rocket that turns

00:07:28.260 it racist.

00:07:28.800 Why is the rocket so white, man?

00:07:30.680 I mean, there are only two astronauts on that capsule, and that means that we are not

00:07:35.400 being racially representative.

00:07:36.580 I mean, it's physically impossible for us to be racially representative with just two

00:07:40.260 people.

00:07:40.640 That's just not the way that actual human representation can work.

00:07:43.660 We're going to need at least 10,000 people, and it's going to be mostly representative,

00:07:47.260 not down to like the percentage points, but we'll find a way to screw it up.

00:07:50.740 I mean, shuttles are also very phallic.

00:07:52.860 Do you think that's a coincidence?

00:07:54.080 Of course not.

00:07:54.540 It's the patriarchy, damn it.

00:07:58.020 Even that, I admire.

00:07:59.400 Like, you've got two astronauts and they're both men, which is just evidence that the game

00:08:03.540 Elon is playing is nothing like the game that most people at home are playing right now.

00:08:07.380 He's not playing the game of political correctness.

00:08:09.840 He's not playing the game of feelings.

00:08:13.260 He's thinking, all right, these are the two guys that NASA put up for the job.

00:08:16.140 All right, done.

00:08:17.420 Those are the guys that go into Spain.

00:08:19.480 And it is a tremendous contrast with this thing where we all stare at each other on a

00:08:25.020 little screen and point our fingers and call each other names.

00:08:27.620 This thing with those two people in Central Park was as dispiriting as anything that's

00:08:32.480 happened in this country for weeks and weeks.

00:08:34.340 The idea that we have to care because one person may be a little bit racist and the other

00:08:38.460 person is a pain in the butt.

00:08:40.280 You know, I don't care about either of them.

00:08:42.080 They live 3,000 miles away.

00:08:43.360 I've never met them.

00:08:44.040 I don't have anything to do with them.

00:08:45.420 Why I'm involved in a discussion about their behavior in Central Park, of all places, where

00:08:49.660 everybody behaves badly, I have no idea.

00:08:52.380 And those are actually the options.

00:08:54.680 The options are we build stuff, we go places, we do new things, or we sit around and point

00:08:58.860 at each other until we've all got our hands around each other's throats.

00:09:02.080 Yeah, I actually had a thought about the two people.

00:09:03.820 It's not an angle I've heard discussed.

00:09:05.380 I mean, obviously, the situation for anyone who has been living under a rock and doesn't know,

00:09:09.620 you have a woman walking her dog off leash in Central Park, by all accounts, a left-wing

00:09:15.480 New York woman.

00:09:17.380 She's approached by a black man in the park who's offended that she has her dog off leash.

00:09:22.040 There's signs up that say you have to have your dog on the leash.

00:09:24.260 He encourages her to put the dog on the leash.

00:09:26.560 She says no.

00:09:27.620 So he pulls a dog treat out of his pocket and lures the dog and says, you're not going to

00:09:31.240 like what happens next.

00:09:32.140 So she says to him, I am going to call the police and tell them that a black man is threatening

00:09:38.080 me.

00:09:39.360 Then she proceeds to actually call the police.

00:09:41.620 She doesn't say a black man is threatening her, but she does say a black man is threatening

00:09:45.120 her dog.

00:09:45.800 Ben, you made the point on your show that what she actually says she's going to do is not

00:09:49.480 is much worse than what she actually did.

00:09:53.300 And now this is that she's lost her job.

00:09:54.920 She lost the dog.

00:09:56.500 Apparently, the people who sold her the dog say by pulling on the dog's collar to restrain

00:10:01.020 the dog, she was abusing the dog.

00:10:03.840 And all I could think is, what do you think the leash does?

00:10:06.360 Like if she had had the dog on the leash, the leash connects to the collar.

00:10:10.940 But she was making the dog racist, though.

00:10:12.780 Dogs are naturally colorblind, but she was teaching that.

00:10:17.800 The whole thing is is stupid beyond words.

00:10:21.600 Everybody is garbage.

00:10:22.420 And that basically sums up like all the politics right now, like all of it.

00:10:25.700 Everyone is stupid and everything is garbage.

00:10:27.200 And now we're seeing this basically imported into every single scenario.

00:10:32.400 Every single scenario has to be read in the deepest possible way.

00:10:35.900 This scenario, actually, at least you got a tinge of this.

00:10:39.540 The lady said something kind of racist.

00:10:41.320 What she actually said that the part that I thought was actually quite despicable that

00:10:44.360 nobody else picked up on was her actual implication was if I call the NYPD and say a black man is

00:10:49.240 is threatening me, they're going to come here and just shoot you with no evidence.

00:10:52.000 I mean, her actual system was obviously like her kind of implicit threat was I think the NYPD

00:10:56.880 is racist.

00:10:57.380 You think the NYPD is racist.

00:10:58.620 So I'm going to call up the NYPD and I'm going to say this thing to get you shot.

00:11:02.080 Right.

00:11:02.240 That's the that's the part that's really disturbing.

00:11:04.660 But we're seeing this.

00:11:05.420 Don't make me call the racist.

00:11:08.100 Exactly.

00:11:08.620 And that's really what it was.

00:11:09.600 And you've seen this with with a bunch.

00:11:12.680 What you've seen with on Twitter lately is in the aftermath of the Arbery shooting, which

00:11:17.460 is a bad shooting in Georgia.

00:11:19.280 Again, it is not clear to me whether that shooting was racially motivated or whether

00:11:22.660 that was just a couple of vigilantes being vigilantes who were doing stuff they shouldn't

00:11:26.720 be doing.

00:11:27.520 And then an insider game with the D.A. who happened to know the vigilantes.

00:11:30.580 It seems more likely that that was the case than that these guys were just vicious racists

00:11:34.260 who are going around looking for a black guy to shoot.

00:11:36.360 And the same thing seems to be true in Minnesota.

00:11:39.500 People are suggesting this is obviously a race based case because the cop was white and the

00:11:43.720 guy who died was black.

00:11:44.740 It could also be the case that the cop is just it's just a jackass and was doing something

00:11:49.520 terrible and that it wasn't because of race.

00:11:51.540 It was just because the cop is a jackass and doing something terrible.

00:11:53.700 It seems to me that it's kind of weird that now in America, the because racism is and should

00:11:59.020 be sort of the highest form of sin in America, we immediately conflate all other forms of

00:12:04.300 sin with that form of sin.

00:12:05.340 So we can't just say, OK, maybe the cop in Minnesota was a jackass who should go to jail

00:12:08.980 for what he did to this guy.

00:12:10.740 It has to be that he hated black people and that's why he's doing it.

00:12:13.120 And this is indicative of broader American racism.

00:12:14.860 You can't believe that Barry's shooting is not just about it.

00:12:20.000 Ben, I have a question for you guys are in the news more than I am.

00:12:23.760 Do we know for a fact that the cop's behavior, that video is difficult to watch, but do we

00:12:28.100 know for a fact that that despicable behavior actually caused the death?

00:12:33.280 No, we don't.

00:12:33.800 We don't yet.

00:12:35.040 We don't.

00:12:35.400 We don't know that yet.

00:12:36.460 We know we they're still waiting for, I believe, the medical examiner report to determine

00:12:39.440 actual cause of death.

00:12:40.280 So it could look a lot like Eric Garner, whatever it is.

00:12:42.460 I mean, obviously, moral of the story, don't sit on a dude's neck for four minutes, you

00:12:46.100 jackass, you POS.

00:12:47.720 I mean, like, that's just not something that you do.

00:12:49.320 But again, the rush to everybody virtue signal that we have to all suggest that this is racism

00:12:55.760 and indicative of broader American racism.

00:12:57.600 And like last week, there was another one of these cases where you saw these two guys

00:13:01.100 who worked for FedEx put up a story suggesting that there was a white homeowner who came out

00:13:05.100 and was treating it was racially profiling them and yelling at them.

00:13:07.860 And nothing from the video actually showed the white homeowner being racist.

00:13:11.540 And this trended number one, people saying we should boycott FedEx after these guys got

00:13:15.240 fired.

00:13:15.780 And now today there's another story like this where there are these black guys who posted

00:13:19.020 a photo, a video of a guy in Minnesota who apparently was asking them to leave what is

00:13:23.260 a private gym.

00:13:24.140 He was asking for their ideas.

00:13:25.160 They wouldn't show their ideas.

00:13:26.020 They're saying this is racially profiling.

00:13:27.720 And at no point does he say, like, you guys should leave because you're black.

00:13:30.440 He just says, like, I don't know who you are.

00:13:31.920 And I'm in this building a lot.

00:13:32.900 And I really don't know, like, what you're doing here.

00:13:34.760 And so now he's also trending on Twitter.

00:13:36.520 So this is the rule now is that if somebody is rude or annoying or if somebody decides

00:13:41.020 to act like a jerk, that we are immediately going to attribute racism to that person because

00:13:44.560 this underscores the Joe Biden message that America is a deeply racist, horrible place

00:13:49.180 in every aspect.

00:13:50.300 Now, again, any or all of these or none of these situations may actually be racist.

00:13:54.400 I'm just waiting for the evidence.

00:13:55.340 And as soon as you say you're waiting for the evidence, this means that you are now a great

00:13:58.340 defender of racism.

00:13:59.040 I actually think that you're missing what's actually happening because I don't think that

00:14:03.020 this is just the rule in America now.

00:14:05.120 I think it's the rule in America every four years when there's a presidential election.

00:14:09.140 Bingo.

00:14:09.440 But before we get to that, I want to tell you guys about my trip to Texas that I just took.

00:14:12.800 You know, I was gone for 10 days back in America, out of L.A., back in America, the

00:14:18.120 land of the free where you could go sit down in these interior box-like buildings and other

00:14:26.520 humans would come up to you and ask you if you would like anything to eat or drink.

00:14:30.440 And then you would tell those people, yes, and what you would like to eat or drink.

00:14:34.440 And they would just bring it to you.

00:14:36.880 You got to try it.

00:14:37.800 It was unbelievable.

00:14:39.220 While I was there, I met up with one of my best childhood friends, David, with whom I've

00:14:44.300 traveled the world.

00:14:45.000 And he has this beautiful piece of land that he and his family own.

00:14:47.780 We went out in the country with 22 rifles and we shot metal things and listened to them

00:14:52.380 and go, and we did this for an hour in the most beautiful country on God's earth with

00:14:59.500 no masks, no fear, a little bit of fear, probably on his part, because I'm not the best shot.

00:15:06.460 So he stayed, you know, to the right and slightly behind me.

00:15:09.160 But basically, we just had fun with firearms all afternoon.

00:15:13.580 And it made me think about our pals over at Bravo Company Manufacturing, because they make

00:15:17.140 the best and most fun firearms.

00:15:20.260 They don't do it for recreation.

00:15:21.480 Of course, they do it because of the Constitution.

00:15:23.860 When the founders crafted the Constitution, the first thing they did was to make sacred

00:15:26.960 the rights of the individual to share their ideas without limitation by government.

00:15:30.720 The second right that they enumerated was the right of the populace to protect that speech

00:15:34.720 and possess their own firearms so that they could do it with force.

00:15:38.560 You know how strongly everyone here believes in the Second Amendment.

00:15:41.680 We're all gun owners.

00:15:42.740 The difference between all of you and all of me is I was a gun owner first, and I got to

00:15:46.960 shoot metal things this week and listen to them go bink while all of you were

00:15:50.940 holed up here in Southern California.

00:15:54.280 Bravo Company Manufacturing builds a professional-grade product which is built to combat standards.

00:15:58.600 That's because they're not building these guns so that I can shoot metal pigs.

00:16:01.680 They're building them so that every American can have access to the same kind of consistent

00:16:06.860 and predictable firearm for personal protection that anyone in the military or in law enforcement

00:16:13.320 might have.

00:16:14.720 Ben, you know these guys pretty well.

00:16:17.240 Bravo Company Manufacturing.

00:16:18.400 These are solid, solid dudes.

00:16:19.960 Everybody loves Bravo Company Manufacturing because their stuff is incredible.

00:16:23.320 I mean, it is the best.

00:16:25.000 Bravo Company Manufacturing.

00:16:26.220 You should go check out all of their videos at youtube.com slash bravocompanyusa.

00:16:31.380 bravocompanymfg.com is their website.

00:16:32.940 You can check out all of their products over there.

00:16:34.260 Again, that's bravocompanymfg.

00:16:36.240 Solid dudes.

00:16:37.000 I mean, these are military guys, great background.

00:16:39.920 And again, they're making the weapons that you need.

00:16:41.520 And if ever you thought that maybe there might come a time when the government started to

00:16:45.080 just infringe your freedoms and do so in extraordinary fashion, and maybe you might want at some point

00:16:49.220 to have the ability to defend yourself against that sort of thing, then you might want to

00:16:52.420 check out bravocompanymfg.com today.

00:16:55.400 Great dudes making a great product.

00:16:56.960 If such a thing were even possible.

00:16:58.400 You know, there is one aspect of this whole video cancel culture racial politics thing that

00:17:05.440 we're missing out on.

00:17:06.180 And that's the difference between the narrative and the reality.

00:17:08.860 What we're being told is that there is this epidemic.

00:17:12.180 It's happening every, according to LeBron James, every time people of color walk out of their

00:17:16.440 door, they're being hunted down.

00:17:18.240 And that, that just simply isn't the case.

00:17:20.700 Statistics show that's not the case.

00:17:22.320 The reason that these stories become such media sensations is precisely because they're so rare.

00:17:27.840 And you can see this even in this kind of ridiculous altercation in Central Park.

00:17:31.560 There's a piece in the New York Times written by someone whose name I don't know with some

00:17:35.160 points that I don't even care to really read.

00:17:36.880 But the one point they make, the central thesis is that this woman knew she, she could just

00:17:42.900 give a couple distressed cries and bring the weight of white supremacy down on this man's

00:17:48.900 body.

00:17:49.300 That's almost the exact words she used.

00:17:50.940 And the fact is, that's not what happened.

00:17:53.960 That's not what happened at all.

00:17:55.060 Actually, she made her distressed cries.

00:17:57.060 She got her job taken away.

00:17:58.460 She got her dog taken away from her.

00:18:00.620 And this guy, this weirdo who goes up to women in parks and has treats just to lure their

00:18:04.820 dogs away is fine.

00:18:06.900 He's, I'm glad he's fine.

00:18:07.960 I'm glad that he's going on with his life.

00:18:09.620 But the reality of what the left is pushing every four years, as Jeremy says, and the,

00:18:15.060 the reality of the situation, those are totally different.

00:18:17.260 There are only race riots essentially in years when it can benefit the Democrats in presidential

00:18:21.940 elections.

00:18:22.400 You had riots going on in, in St. Louis, wasn't it?

00:18:27.140 In Ferguson during the 2012 election, it wouldn't have been beneficial to have had the same

00:18:32.440 thing happen in 2016.

00:18:33.980 So it didn't.

00:18:35.260 Now it is beneficial again in an election against Donald Trump here in 2020.

00:18:39.440 So we're going to go through it again.

00:18:40.660 We'll go through it again the next time it's beneficial to them in a presidential election.

00:18:42.920 Although I will say the Ferguson, the Ferguson riots though happened in 2014.

00:18:45.920 So I don't think it's entirely electoral.

00:18:47.660 I do think that it is, it is worth downloading.

00:18:50.200 How dare you destroy me with facts and logic?

00:18:53.320 I mean, I just, I think that it's, I think it's important.

00:18:56.280 Again, I think that it does back a particular political narrative, but I, and I think that

00:19:01.140 the media right now, I think we're coming up with airsats instances of, of racism right

00:19:05.920 now because it does support a particular narrative.

00:19:08.880 And, and that, that's been a consistent pattern.

00:19:10.880 I think that it's been alleviated for, for a couple of years now because the media didn't

00:19:15.460 feel the necessity to go to broad based American racism.

00:19:17.940 They could just point at Trump and scream racist at him.

00:19:20.160 And, and they were all distracted by Trump, Russia for a couple of years there.

00:19:23.380 But, and I do think that as the election approaches, obviously there's going to be more focus on

00:19:27.020 the sort of 16, 19 project angle that Joe Biden is trying to exacerbate in the run-up

00:19:31.620 to the election.

00:19:32.160 I mean, that, that is reflective of the Joe Biden.

00:19:33.880 You're going to put us all back in chains or put them all back in chains.

00:19:36.760 You're not really black if you vote for Republicans.

00:19:38.360 And again, that narrative is, is a pretty simple narrative for Democrats because what

00:19:42.720 people weren't commenting on is when Joe Biden said, you're not really black.

00:19:45.160 If you're, if you're thinking about voting Republican, what he meant by that is no black

00:19:49.020 person would vote for a party that seeks to exterminate black people, right?

00:19:51.760 That's really what he means by that.

00:19:53.080 And so the, the underlying implication is that Republicans seek to exterminate black people.

00:19:56.980 Well, there's only one problem.

00:19:58.080 Republicans obviously do not seek to exterminate black people.

00:20:00.560 In fact, until very recently, the black unemployment rate was at an all time low.

00:20:04.060 Republicans across the country condemn racism and hate it.

00:20:06.420 Um, and so you have to come up with an alternative set of facts.

00:20:09.280 And so if you need to manufacture a controversy, then you manufacture a controversy.

00:20:13.200 Again, I'm not saying the instances are manufactured.

00:20:15.360 These are, these are, a lot of these are bad cases.

00:20:17.120 I'm saying the controversy is a little manufactured because I'm wondering who exactly is, who exactly

00:20:21.420 is defending racism.

00:20:22.620 Who's out there going like, there's 330 million people in the country right now.

00:20:26.120 You don't have to look very far to find some example of any bad behavior.

00:20:29.600 And Drew, isn't that what, what's really happening here is the media is selectively choosing

00:20:33.340 what we talk about.

00:20:34.080 The, that's exactly it.

00:20:36.160 The problem is always the narrative and the problem with race is the narrative.

00:20:39.140 You know, I don't believe that race is the, you know, being a racist is the worst thing

00:20:42.580 that people do.

00:20:43.160 I think it's one of a range of many low qualities that we all have that we're trying to get past.

00:20:48.820 This is an amazing, you know, the whole thing about this country is how amazing and new

00:20:52.980 and fresh this idea is that we can have a multi-ethnic country where we somehow live in all

00:20:58.560 our differences on some kind of even keel.

00:21:01.260 This is, this is a completely original idea, not since ancient Rome, really literally not

00:21:06.880 since ancient Rome has there been a country that has tried to meld this many ethnicities

00:21:11.560 under one government, under one set of ideals.

00:21:14.580 It's, it's kind of an amazing thing that we're doing here.

00:21:17.120 And that every now and again, someone somewhere acts like a clown in Central Park becomes a racial

00:21:22.940 touch point.

00:21:23.560 That's the problem.

00:21:24.320 The problem is the narrative, the thing about, uh, what you, what Jeremy was saying about

00:21:28.760 electra, uh, a election years, the, the Obama entire Obama presidency was run on a race baiting

00:21:36.680 status where every distraction, everything that he did wrong, everything that he did, which

00:21:41.400 didn't work, which was everything was just, we were distracted by race narratives.

00:21:46.140 And the fact is, you know, Donald Trump, the idea when you read the New York times, you

00:21:51.200 would think that really Donald Trump was wearing a hood, was sitting there, you know, on the

00:21:55.200 top of Mount racism, uh, plotting against the black race, where in fact, he's been as

00:21:59.340 good a president as Americans of color have ever had.

00:22:02.400 And I think that that's the problem is the story we're being told, you know, right this

00:22:06.340 minute, one of the most amazing things that's going on is the popularity of Andrew Cuomo.

00:22:10.960 And when I look at Andrew Cuomo, who ran the state where this, uh, Chinese virus got started,

00:22:16.100 where it's spread, where people, uh, where a huge number of the people have died and he's

00:22:21.340 got an 80% rating.

00:22:22.780 We know that something is wrong with our communication system.

00:22:26.160 And when something is that wrong with our communication system, where we're calling good,

00:22:30.860 evil and evil, good.

00:22:31.840 I think we have to start asking questions about every story we hear and every kind of narrative

00:22:36.720 that we're being sold because we're being sold a lot of lies.

00:22:39.660 But there's one other aspect of this that occurred to me and I haven't heard anyone else talk

00:22:43.420 about it.

00:22:44.280 And that's the fact that this woman in Central Park had to make a public apology.

00:22:47.680 She made an apology to the world, right?

00:22:50.880 For her behavior.

00:22:52.360 I find that interesting.

00:22:53.440 It's a little nuanced because the four of us are, to varying degrees, public figures.

00:22:58.700 We live life, we live public lives.

00:23:00.580 We do this show, for example, and people are able to watch it.

00:23:03.980 And so it makes a certain amount of sense that if we say the wrong thing or if we engage

00:23:08.380 in a bad behavior, we might have to speak publicly about that.

00:23:12.940 And we may have to give a public apology to our fans or a public apology to the people

00:23:17.280 who've supported us.

00:23:18.560 Isn't it interesting, though, that we live in a time where private individuals would feel

00:23:22.580 compelled to give public apologies?

00:23:24.780 Like, I can imagine a world where this woman does what she does.

00:23:28.060 It's discovered she might offer an apology to the person, the gentleman in the park.

00:23:34.680 She might offer an apology to her friends and family.

00:23:36.820 She might offer an apology even to her employer for making them look bad.

00:23:40.780 Why does she feel compelled to give a public apology?

00:23:44.520 I feel like if this happened to my father, for example, I would tell him, yeah, that

00:23:48.620 was a bad thing you did.

00:23:50.080 Apologize to the person you hurt and then disappear back into private life as quickly

00:23:54.620 as you can.

00:23:55.280 But that isn't the impulse, Drew.

00:23:57.260 You know, I think I have at least a partial insight into this.

00:24:01.040 I'm reading this book.

00:24:01.940 And Ben, I know you read this book, The Age of Entitlement.

00:24:04.180 Oh, I'm reading it now, actually.

00:24:05.360 It's excellent.

00:24:05.820 It's an amazing, it is an amazing book.

00:24:08.160 It really is an insightful, clear-headed, truly intellectual book in the real sense

00:24:12.960 of that word.

00:24:14.300 And one of the points he makes is that race law, racism law, has become so constructed

00:24:21.480 by both law and precedent that a business can be sued for things that its employees did

00:24:27.880 or the things that its employees did can be used as evidence against them.

00:24:31.820 So if somebody wants to prove that the God King of the Daily Wire is somehow doing a

00:24:36.500 racist practice, evidence can be brought that Clavin said on his show or in his private

00:24:41.440 life that as a dinner party, he got drunk and started saying racist things.

00:24:46.080 And that can be used as evidence against Jeremy.

00:24:48.040 You're in trouble, man.

00:24:48.080 You are in big trouble, Jeremy.

00:24:48.840 That's right.

00:24:49.280 Yeah.

00:24:49.900 That's right.

00:24:50.260 Anybody who's been at my house, know that's a big problem for you.

00:24:52.880 But no, but seriously, I think we have frequently, all four of us have asked, why has corporate

00:24:59.080 America lost its nerve?

00:25:00.880 Why has it lost its guts?

00:25:02.220 Why do they cancel people the minute anybody says anything?

00:25:04.760 Why do they pull their sponsorship?

00:25:06.440 And this is the reason they've constructed a law by trial by lawsuit where you can be nailed

00:25:13.840 for so many different things and lose money over so many different things that essentially

00:25:17.840 we're being policed.

00:25:18.860 Our speech is being policed through our corporations.

00:25:21.500 And that is, to me, that's a real problem because everybody has stuff in their hearts that

00:25:26.280 they can't answer for.

00:25:28.140 We all do.

00:25:28.940 And I just don't think we can live in this world where if you get caught, that somehow

00:25:32.440 gets me off the hook until everybody turns on me.

00:25:35.100 I mean, that's the system we're in now where if we can all gang up on person X, then person

00:25:39.000 X won't gang up on us.

00:25:40.500 And that's not a good system for preserving freedom, basically.

00:25:43.720 Ben?

00:25:44.700 Yeah.

00:25:44.920 I mean, I think there's something else happening here, too.

00:25:46.660 And that is the weaponization of niceness.

00:25:49.000 So it used to be that when it came to corporate America, well, corporate America has always been

00:25:53.600 known for it, was the sort of man in the gray flannel suit, right?

00:25:56.280 The idea that you had a sort of corporate cutout and that the corporation was risk averse,

00:26:01.040 right?

00:26:01.140 They were going to create a bunch of nice, uncontroversial people, and those people were

00:26:05.000 going to work for them.

00:26:05.900 And this has been true, you know, going back to the stereotypes all the way back to the

00:26:08.260 1920s, right?

00:26:09.000 All these babbits were going to be nice and middle class, and they were all going to act

00:26:12.180 nice to each other.

00:26:13.260 Well, that's actually not a horrible aspiration is that we should be nice to each other.

00:26:16.100 But one of the things that's happened is we have weaponized niceness to basically mean

00:26:20.340 anything I don't like is not nice.

00:26:21.640 And therefore, I'm coming after your corporation, you no longer fit in, and you have to be excised.

00:26:26.660 I think that actually has some ramifications for the mask debate, actually, because there's

00:26:31.760 an attempt now to basically suggest that we can tell whether you're a virtuous person based

00:26:36.300 on whether you are wearing a mask all the time.

00:26:38.200 We're going to determine whether you're a nice person based on whether you're wearing

00:26:41.620 a mask all the time.

00:26:42.960 And what this means is that if you are perceived to be a not nice person, there's not an actual

00:26:46.980 hard moral standard as to like what line you've crossed.

00:26:48.880 But if you've crossed our vision of niceness, then this means you must be excised from the

00:26:52.800 community of man.

00:26:53.820 And so you see that this woman lost her job.

00:26:55.880 Even the guy who originally released the tape, right?

00:26:58.440 And he came out, he's like, I'm not sure she should have lost her job.

00:27:00.620 So first of all, dude, you probably should have considered that before you dumped it onto

00:27:03.380 Twitter, the place for dunking and being dunked upon.

00:27:06.280 And the place where everybody gets points for trying to get people fired.

00:27:09.160 It's whose line is it anyway, except the points mean you get fired.

00:27:12.160 Maybe you should have thought about that like five minutes beforehand.

00:27:14.540 But the weaponization of the idea of niceness has been thoroughgoing.

00:27:19.380 And the substitution of niceness for morality is an ongoing American problem that goes back

00:27:24.300 quite a ways.

00:27:25.420 And you see it being used in nearly every argument from the transgender pronoun debates

00:27:30.840 to things like the mask stuff.

00:27:33.180 Whoever grabs the mantle of niceness is now perceived as the moral person, even if sometimes

00:27:38.120 the person who's not nice is the person you need in a given situation.

00:27:40.880 But both of those are great points.

00:27:41.920 There's also this aspect that's just technological.

00:27:45.240 It's actually not primarily social, which is that all of us now fancy ourselves public

00:27:50.660 figures.

00:27:51.260 Even the most private person, if you've got an Instagram and you've got a Twitter, then

00:27:55.120 very often people don't have a thought that passes through their mind without expressing

00:27:59.280 it.

00:27:59.620 So they feel the need to make public statements themselves.

00:28:02.380 And what's even more insidious than that, I mean, that's probably corrosive for our souls

00:28:06.300 that we all feel like we're public figures.

00:28:07.640 But what's even more insidious is that we have the power to make other people public

00:28:12.380 figures.

00:28:13.120 This random guy in the park who thought it was a good idea to film some woman walking

00:28:17.180 her dog, he made her a public figure, whether she wanted to be or not.

00:28:21.360 And so, again, whether she wanted to or not, she sort of did have to make this public apology.

00:28:26.820 It's a bad thing.

00:28:27.900 And social media plays to this because it keeps us online.

00:28:32.880 I mean, they play to our outrage.

00:28:34.140 They play to our anger and they play to our divisiveness because it keeps us coming on.

00:28:37.560 It makes money for them.

00:28:38.480 But they also play to our vanity.

00:28:40.320 To Michael's point, they play to the idea that we all are public figures, that we all,

00:28:44.980 instead of being individuals operating in a community, we're performers operating for

00:28:49.260 an audience.

00:28:49.800 And I think that that actually is part of the corrosion of our country.

00:28:53.300 But before we talk more about that, I want to talk about our friends over at Ring.

00:28:57.320 You know, our pal, Dave Rubin, has had his house robbed like three times.

00:29:02.320 You know, there's a lot of crime going on out there, especially in cities right now because

00:29:07.680 of certain policies that have been put in place.

00:29:09.660 And people are just stealing the mail left and right.

00:29:11.640 I've had the same problem in my house.

00:29:13.640 And I think even worse things have been happening around town.

00:29:16.480 That's why you need to go to Ring.

00:29:19.320 Ring, listen, they provide an amazing set range of products.

00:29:24.100 Most famously, their Ring doorbell, which lets you answer the door and check in on your

00:29:27.880 home anytime from anywhere.

00:29:29.160 You can keep an eye on your doorstep, see who's stealing your packages.

00:29:32.840 You can speak to delivery people.

00:29:34.580 So even if you're at work, someone shows up to drop something off on your porch, you

00:29:38.300 can speak to them right through the Ring doorbell when they come to your door.

00:29:42.440 They also have outdoor security cameras where you can check in on every part of your house

00:29:45.660 and never miss a moment.

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00:29:50.700 lit house.

00:29:51.600 And full home security systems to give you everything you need to protect your family,

00:29:54.860 pets, and property.

00:29:56.600 Everyone here uses Ring.

00:29:57.800 We're all giant fans of Ring.

00:29:59.840 They've been longtime sponsors of the work that we do here at The Daily Wire and on the

00:30:04.100 various podcasts.

00:30:05.220 But they also keep our home safe.

00:30:06.760 We were talking about SpaceX and the launch at the beginning of the show and the sort of

00:30:10.960 innovation, the time of innovation in which we live.

00:30:13.420 I like people who build things.

00:30:14.860 I like people who build gizmos.

00:30:16.620 And really, home security has changed so much in the last few years because of Ring.

00:30:22.360 And the fact that your home can be so intelligent, it can be so smart, you can check in on it

00:30:28.060 from everywhere, you can communicate from everywhere.

00:30:31.000 And really, I think that you can have a handle on your property in a way that you never could

00:30:34.920 before Ring.

00:30:36.580 Their home security products are designed to give you peace of mind around the clock.

00:30:40.420 You can get a special offer on the Ring welcome kit when you go to ring.com slash backstage.

00:30:46.020 That's ring.com slash backstage.

00:30:48.620 The welcome kit includes the Ring Video Doorbell 3 and Chime Probe.

00:30:52.680 It's all you need to start building custom security for your home today.

00:30:56.220 Ring.com slash backstage.

00:30:58.180 Ring.com slash backstage.

00:30:59.440 All three of you use Ring products in your home, right?

00:31:03.340 I love Ring.

00:31:04.240 I give it out to friends of mine as a housewarming gift.

00:31:07.600 There was one friend I didn't give it to, and he just had his lap stop stolen.

00:31:10.620 I'm not going to say which friend it was, but it's a very sad situation.

00:31:13.900 I should have given him a ring.

00:31:14.700 And the laptop was actually stolen out of his car while he was at work, but it made for

00:31:18.000 a good plug.

00:31:18.740 Ring.com slash backstage.

00:31:22.080 Alicia is joining us now from the bunker at her home.

00:31:25.820 We usually keep her in a bunker here at the office.

00:31:28.180 It's down, but at her house, she's built, there's a fake light.

00:31:31.500 It looks like she has a window of people.

00:31:32.740 She's in the basement.

00:31:33.540 Believe me, that's the only place we allow Alicia to be.

00:31:36.020 Fake blinds and special art for my kindergartner over here on the desk.

00:31:40.660 Not sure if you can see that.

00:31:42.060 So don't forget, if you are a Daily Wire subscriber, if you're an all access subscriber, you can chat

00:31:46.060 with me and the guys after the show on our discussion.

00:31:48.760 And right now we're going to start taking the subscriber questions.

00:31:51.120 I think that this is a interesting one.

00:31:52.940 I know a lot of you guys have touched on this on your shows recently, but somebody wants

00:31:56.120 to ask the whole game, they're observing that recently Trump seems to be more Trumpy or

00:32:01.260 spewing more Trump-isms.

00:32:03.440 And then people on the right immediately jump to his defense and say that his behavior is

00:32:07.940 totally okay.

00:32:09.000 This subscriber thinks, is the right becoming like the left, that as long as the guy is

00:32:13.120 quote unquote, our guy, we're going to defend whatever they do and say?

00:32:16.680 Yeah.

00:32:16.840 I'm not going to let Ben or I answer this question because I just think it's bad for

00:32:22.880 business.

00:32:23.680 I'd like to go to ruin Michael.

00:32:26.480 All right.

00:32:27.380 Well, you know, I think, I think, I think what is happening to Trump is part of what is

00:32:32.240 happening to the entire country.

00:32:33.900 When there's a crisis, everybody immediately girds their loins and gets their mindset and

00:32:39.120 kind of plants themselves and is ready for what's coming.

00:32:41.620 And as the crisis starts to alleviate, as we open up and as the doors come open and the

00:32:45.720 wind comes in, you start to let down your guard a little bit and everybody gets a little

00:32:50.100 crazy.

00:32:50.560 I think this thing in Central Park, I think the vileness and meanness that is now apparent

00:32:55.240 on Twitter is all part of this.

00:32:57.140 We're talking to each other in ways that no one should talk to anyone.

00:33:00.440 And I think it's part of the fact that we've just, you know, kind of had it with the situation

00:33:03.920 that we're in.

00:33:04.360 And Trump is a human being and a very big human being with not a lot of impulse control.

00:33:09.320 And he's doing some things that are very hard to defend.

00:33:11.620 I will, I will not defend the stuff that he's doing to Joe Scarborough.

00:33:15.060 You don't accuse a person of murder, even if it's Joe who probably did it.

00:33:18.360 But I mean, you don't know.

00:33:19.280 I'm not just joking.

00:33:20.240 You know, you do not accuse people of murder.

00:33:21.880 However, however, we do have to put Donald Trump in the context of the communication

00:33:27.300 system in this country.

00:33:28.880 He is a guy who we've had a judge accused of rape on the public record.

00:33:33.380 We've had him accused of being a Russian spy on every channel on earth.

00:33:37.800 We had Mitt Romney accused of essentially killing somebody with his business by Barack Obama.

00:33:42.380 He cannot be the only person whose bad behavior matters, who's the only person whose bad behavior

00:33:48.420 stands out.

00:33:49.440 And that's the only the only thing I will say about this in his defense.

00:33:52.400 And I'm not I'm not going to defend what he's actually doing.

00:33:55.220 But I will say that when we have a a communication system, a press that basically says, oh, if

00:34:02.340 you make a sexual charge against a conservative, it will be the headline for the next six weeks.

00:34:08.280 And if you make one about a Democrat, dead silence.

00:34:10.940 Nothing's going to happen.

00:34:12.140 We're not going to pay attention to it.

00:34:13.440 You can't have that kind of double standard, which is why the people sent Trump to Washington.

00:34:18.700 It's why they said we have no voice.

00:34:20.660 Nobody's listening to us.

00:34:21.740 Nobody cares what we think.

00:34:22.860 We're sending this guy to tell you what we think.

00:34:25.860 You can't then turn around on him and say he alone is the problem.

00:34:29.380 He is part of a problem.

00:34:30.680 He is part of a kind of meanness that is seeped into our political conversation and maybe into

00:34:36.660 all our conversation.

00:34:37.920 And so I will not look at him independent of that situation, even though I do condemn this

00:34:42.900 particular thing that he did to Scarborough.

00:34:44.700 I think that's fair.

00:34:45.380 I think one of the problems that Donald Trump has is that he may engage in behavior that other

00:34:51.040 people engage in and get away with, but he does it so much more grotesquely.

00:34:55.580 And that gives people the opportunity, a sort of visceral reaction.

00:34:59.860 And so what people like Barack Obama are very, very good at is smiling while they slide the

00:35:05.140 knife in.

00:35:06.040 And Donald Trump, you know, he comes right in the front door.

00:35:09.460 He doesn't sneak up behind you.

00:35:11.080 And he's stabbed like this, right?

00:35:13.440 That does create a reaction from us.

00:35:15.800 But it's bad.

00:35:16.940 In other words, it's bad politics.

00:35:19.240 It makes what he's doing less effective than what they've been doing.

00:35:23.300 So I don't disagree with you, Drew, on either count.

00:35:26.560 What what the president said about Scarborough is despicable and can't be defended.

00:35:29.660 At the same time, it is part and parcel with the kind of accusations that the left makes

00:35:33.920 against conservatives all the time.

00:35:35.520 They're just better at it because they're not grotesque.

00:35:37.840 But it is a grotesque thing to do, but they are not grotesque in the delivery of it.

00:35:43.800 I think that that's where he gets himself in the most.

00:35:47.080 Jeremy, you've said it's indefensible.

00:35:48.620 You haven't even allowed me to try to defend it, which I actually I actually don't want

00:35:52.080 to do.

00:35:52.340 I don't want to I don't want to defend it per se.

00:35:54.260 But but I do.

00:35:54.900 I agree with Drew.

00:35:55.800 I think I don't think Joe Scarborough is a murderer.

00:35:58.240 I think it is just as plausible that Joe Scarborough is a murderer.

00:36:01.980 It may be more plausible that Joe Scarborough is a murderer than that Donald Trump was a secret

00:36:06.840 Manchurian sleeper cell for Russia all these years or that Brett Kavanaugh, a milquetoast

00:36:11.720 jurist, is actually a gang rapist.

00:36:13.720 I think it is at least as plausible.

00:36:15.900 And I think what Trump is doing here and you could say it's dark humor.

00:36:19.520 You could say it's mean and nasty and rotten and no good.

00:36:22.480 But he is being funny.

00:36:23.780 That's why in the tweet what he said was Joe's crazy future ex-wife, Mika.

00:36:29.580 That's a joke.

00:36:30.480 That's actually a funny joke.

00:36:31.680 It's not it's not funny in the long term to joke about people murdering other people.

00:36:36.520 You know, I mean, that's that's like a little much for the president of the United States.

00:36:39.800 But the the issue here is that when Donald Trump does it, it's the end of the world.

00:36:46.000 And when James Comey and John Brennan and James Clapper and the entire media complex and

00:36:51.220 the entire Obama administration make equally absurd charges at Trump, then it goes by the

00:36:56.360 wayside and people are sick of that.

00:36:57.880 And Trump is making a joke about that.

00:36:59.360 And then on the point of defending Trump, which, again, I'm not defending the Joe Scarborough

00:37:03.000 murder charge, but I am defending Trump.

00:37:05.400 I do think that it is perfectly right for people on the right to give a little more grace to

00:37:10.820 Donald Trump than they would to Barack Obama.

00:37:13.000 That doesn't make us just like the left.

00:37:15.080 It's simply admitting that we're not neutral.

00:37:17.700 I'm not neutral.

00:37:18.600 I want certain things for the country.

00:37:20.320 I have a certain vision of the world.

00:37:22.340 Donald Trump's not neutral.

00:37:23.580 Barack Obama is not neutral.

00:37:24.920 And so I'm going to give him a little more grace.

00:37:26.360 I'm going to laugh a little bit more at his jokes and maybe more tacitly, more quietly,

00:37:30.860 I would encourage him not to keep accusing Joe Scarborough of murder.

00:37:34.520 I do think this is one of the places where Ben and I differ from you and Drew, because

00:37:38.740 you just articulated, I think, very well your position, which is we should have more grace

00:37:43.740 for our side when they're wrong than we would the other side.

00:37:46.340 And I think the other point of view, which is the one that Ben and I hold to, is that we

00:37:50.020 should hold our side more accountable because they're the only ones we can hold accountable.

00:37:53.880 They're the only ones from whom we can even hope to affect any kind of change that might

00:37:57.760 result in a better future where this isn't the standard, where we're not just in a battle

00:38:02.540 to a race to the bottom, as people might say.

00:38:05.380 You know, I can't do anything about the candidates that the left puts up or how terrible they

00:38:09.280 are.

00:38:09.580 We can defeat them.

00:38:10.480 And we can empower our guys to defeat them.

00:38:13.300 Well, I love, I love, I love, okay, so a few things.

00:38:15.260 I love my child more than I love other children.

00:38:17.160 If my child does something wrong and another child does something wrong, I will punish my child.

00:38:21.160 Right?

00:38:21.400 I mean, that's, that's my child.

00:38:22.560 And I love my child.

00:38:23.380 And, and I want to make sure that my child doesn't do immoral things.

00:38:26.560 I love my side and I want my side not to do a moral thing.

00:38:29.320 And by the way, I think that it is worth noting here that it's, it's one thing for, for Trump

00:38:33.320 to sideswipe Mika and Joe.

00:38:34.700 He sideswipes Mika and Joe every five seconds.

00:38:36.320 And he talks about Mika's face, face lifts.

00:38:38.020 I mean, this is not the first time that he has gone after Mika and Joe by any stretch of

00:38:41.460 the imagination.

00:38:42.180 He sideswiped a dead Catholic woman who was married at the time and basically suggested she was having

00:38:46.140 an affair with Joe Scarborough.

00:38:47.760 And then he murdered her.

00:38:49.080 I mean, that's, that's really bad stuff, guys.

00:38:51.320 It's like, I understand that you're saying it's bad, but I think I should underscore.

00:38:54.780 That's really, really bad, right?

00:38:56.140 That's a bad thing to do.

00:38:57.720 And, and this, and by the way, her family's like a nice Republican family from Panhandle,

00:39:01.540 Florida.

00:39:01.980 So that, that's not something I think that we should, that we should simply gloss over.

00:39:05.880 The double standard is apparent.

00:39:07.100 It's glaring.

00:39:07.560 And it will continue to be apparent and glaring.

00:39:09.580 Nothing has changed there.

00:39:11.100 I think one of the places that we're differing is that you're suggesting that the new information

00:39:16.560 to be added into the mix to sort of, you know, let us move on from this thing is the double

00:39:20.840 standard.

00:39:21.400 To me, that's always the standard, right?

00:39:22.580 The double standard is the norm.

00:39:23.900 The new information that was added to the mix is that President Trump, you know, it's

00:39:27.260 not new information, but he, he tweets viscerally.

00:39:30.260 He doesn't have limits.

00:39:31.040 Like we know that.

00:39:32.280 And then he's basically willing to spew out any conspiracy theory.

00:39:34.780 He feels like, I mean, he already went after Rafael Cruz for killing John F. Kennedy.

00:39:38.120 The man is basically Sherlock Holmes at this point.

00:39:40.460 He's solved all of the outstanding crimes in the United States.

00:39:43.120 But, but the, the thing that, that I think is necessary here to point out, and this is

00:39:46.920 the part where I think there is like an actual deep and abiding conflict is not about Republicans

00:39:51.940 defending him or not defending him.

00:39:53.700 I think all four of us are going to vote for Trump, right?

00:39:55.800 Is that fair to say?

00:39:56.820 I mean, yeah, Knowles is going to commit fraud to vote for Trump like several times.

00:40:00.020 He's going to, he's going to find every mail in ballots in the state of North Carolina and

00:40:03.540 he is going to find all the mail in ballots and check them off.

00:40:05.740 Doesn't matter whose name is on them, right?

00:40:07.320 So we, we all get this.

00:40:09.000 I do not think that the way that you win votes is by doing this.

00:40:12.520 And I understand that there's a bunch of people out there who are pretending that votes don't

00:40:16.160 shift based on this sort of behavior.

00:40:18.440 The reality is that there is only one stat that in the end is probably going to matter

00:40:22.060 a lot here that is impacted by this.

00:40:23.580 And that is people who don't like either candidate in 2016, people who didn't like Hillary and

00:40:27.900 didn't like Trump broke for Trump in 2020 by poll data, people who don't like Biden

00:40:32.740 and don't like Trump are breaking for Biden and they're breaking for Biden in fairly large

00:40:35.640 numbers.

00:40:36.360 And there's a reason for that.

00:40:38.000 And again, we can talk till the cows come home about the double standard, which does

00:40:42.140 exist and which is ugly and which is terrible.

00:40:44.320 And Democrats are never held responsible for the garbage that they say.

00:40:47.100 Although I will say that, you know, just be like the reason I was angry at the Democrats

00:40:50.740 over the Brett Kavanaugh stuff is because they were doing it right.

00:40:53.760 I'm allowed to be angry at that.

00:40:55.260 Like it was bad that they were doing that to Brett Kavanaugh accusing a man of gang rape

00:40:58.620 without any evidence turns out to be a bad thing.

00:41:00.920 You know what else is a bad thing?

00:41:02.280 I've got another example of a bad thing for you guys.

00:41:04.440 You know, this is that you can be you can root for your side and you can recognize the

00:41:08.800 importance of your side winning, particularly when it comes to policy.

00:41:12.600 You can also recognize it does great damage to your side when the leader of your side

00:41:16.640 and he is the leader.

00:41:17.500 I mean, he's the president of the United States when the leader of your side goes off script

00:41:21.500 like this.

00:41:22.260 And by the way, does so in the middle of a time when people are worried about their lives

00:41:25.560 and their livelihoods.

00:41:26.380 I mean, let's let's not forget that all of this was kind of frivolous nonsense.

00:41:29.100 Well, the economy was good and we had three point five percent unemployment.

00:41:32.320 Now we have 20 percent unemployment, one hundred thousand people dead in the last three months.

00:41:35.440 And so it just underscores the kind of frivolity and silliness.

00:41:38.400 I want him to win.

00:41:39.820 OK, this is not me running down.

00:41:41.420 I want him to win.

00:41:42.220 I want him to win.

00:41:43.040 And that means he has to be a little more disciplined for last thought.

00:41:46.000 The part the part where we you and I completely agree, Ben, and Jeremy, I think, also agrees

00:41:51.200 is I don't think this is good politics.

00:41:52.780 I think this is bad politics.

00:41:54.200 Sometimes he does this stuff and you think it's going to go wrong and somehow he pulls it out.

00:41:58.600 But this one, I think, is just is just bad for our side.

00:42:01.860 I do have to agree with Knowles, though.

00:42:03.680 I do not.

00:42:04.340 This is this is politics.

00:42:05.480 It's not it's not some kind of moral battleground.

00:42:09.320 It's you've got to win.

00:42:10.600 You've got to win.

00:42:11.360 And I'm willing to turn a blind eye to certain things that I think will help us win.

00:42:15.500 And I don't accept I will not accept this double standard.

00:42:19.160 I was looking at the Pulitzer Prizes for 2017.

00:42:21.640 They were given to a series of false stories by The Washington Post and The New York Times

00:42:26.320 that were fed to them by the intelligence community to cover up their illegal spying

00:42:32.380 on the Trump campaign and their dirty take on Trump colluding with the Russians.

00:42:36.380 That's the Pulitzer Prize.

00:42:37.440 That is the gold standard of journalism.

00:42:39.800 It's being given for lies, just like it was with the 1619 project.

00:42:43.160 I can't accept that that can't be reformed.

00:42:45.960 That has got to be reformed.

00:42:47.340 I don't mean to mind a little bias tilt toward the left on any organization.

00:42:51.660 But I really do mind this complete attempt to transform this into a leftist country by

00:42:56.780 virtually every communication arm in the country.

00:42:59.720 And that can't we can't accept that.

00:43:01.660 We cannot lie down for that.

00:43:03.000 And we can't let guys like Chris Wallace sit around and say, oh, that Kayleigh McEnany,

00:43:06.920 she's being so mean.

00:43:08.280 That's it's ridiculous.

00:43:09.200 I can't accept that.

00:43:10.400 And I do think that Trump acts as a brace against that, that he's doing it badly right

00:43:15.020 now and he's doing it in a way that truly is immoral and can't be accepted.

00:43:18.460 That I totally accept.

00:43:20.320 But but that it has to be done.

00:43:21.820 It does have to be done.

00:43:23.040 Yeah.

00:43:23.500 So you were right about more of what you said just then than you've been at any other point

00:43:28.540 in the last three years.

00:43:29.580 I'm going to let it stand, even though you were even though you were still completely wrong

00:43:33.280 about a few parts.

00:43:34.280 Alicia, we're going to check back in with you in a few minutes.

00:43:36.580 And here's some more questions from our Daily Wire subscribers.

00:43:38.980 But first, I want to tell you guys, it's an update on what's been going on with me and

00:43:42.880 Policy Genius.

00:43:43.940 You know, I told you the last time we were together that I actually decided to protect

00:43:47.620 my family, protect my wife and take out a life insurance policy on myself because, as

00:43:53.120 you all know, I've become incredibly successful.

00:43:55.460 And the loss to her, if I were to die, would just be staggering.

00:44:00.320 The emotional loss.

00:44:01.160 I want to take issue with that.

00:44:02.400 The emotional loss.

00:44:03.660 She'd be fine.

00:44:04.360 But the money.

00:44:05.280 Money would be a real problem.

00:44:07.160 So I went over to Policy.

00:44:07.980 This is absolutely true.

00:44:08.900 I went over to Policy Genius.

00:44:11.020 Unbelievable.

00:44:12.160 Policy Genius.

00:44:13.160 They are.

00:44:14.360 It is buying insurance in the future.

00:44:16.240 They understand the way that we work now.

00:44:18.520 They understand the way that we like instant information.

00:44:20.640 We like to compare rates.

00:44:21.840 You go over to Policy Genius.

00:44:23.320 Lightning speed.

00:44:24.300 You get tons of quotes.

00:44:27.340 And I think I told you guys last time I also went somewhere else besides Policy Genius

00:44:30.680 and got a quote so that I could compare.

00:44:33.220 This Policy Genius served me up the best one.

00:44:35.400 So I went through the process.

00:44:36.820 When last we spoke, they had sent someone out to my home to do all the medical exam.

00:44:42.380 Because, you know, you can't actually go anywhere and do medical exams in L.A. anymore because of the times in which we live.

00:44:48.620 They sent someone to my house, painless, 20 minutes, done.

00:44:52.800 All these quotes.

00:44:53.920 Where are we now, you might be asking.

00:44:55.920 I have high cholesterol and high triglycerides.

00:44:59.300 That's where we are now.

00:45:00.160 I didn't know that until Policy Genius sent this person to my house.

00:45:03.340 So I got to go see my doctor.

00:45:04.760 But the quest for life insurance is going incredibly well.

00:45:07.940 Policy Genius is an amazing service.

00:45:09.320 It couldn't be more convenient.

00:45:11.240 The most graceful solution here to the problem of how do you protect yourself and your family.

00:45:18.780 Policy Genius compares quotes from top life insurance companies all in one place.

00:45:22.500 It takes only a few minutes and truly only a few minutes.

00:45:25.340 Compare quotes from the top insurers and find the best price.

00:45:27.980 This doesn't just save a lot of legwork.

00:45:30.540 It can save you a lot of money, $1,500 or more a year by using Policy Genius to compare life insurance policies.

00:45:36.900 Once you apply, the Policy Genius team will handle all the paperwork, all the red tape for free.

00:45:41.580 They're in contact with the life insurance companies every day, monitoring developments and helping customers navigate every step.

00:45:47.720 And this is true.

00:45:48.640 It's white glove service.

00:45:50.200 A person from Policy Genius made sure that I got my medical records delivered to me.

00:45:54.900 They check in by email.

00:45:56.260 They've taken incredible care of me.

00:45:57.640 And honestly, the fact that I now know that I have high cholesterol and high triglycerides, maybe I'll be able to do something about that.

00:46:04.660 I owe Policy Genius to that.

00:46:06.060 If you're one of the many people looking to buy life insurance right now, but you're not sure where to start, head over to PolicyGenius.com.

00:46:12.640 Benjamin, you've used them?

00:46:14.340 Oh, man.

00:46:15.240 PolicyGenius.com.

00:46:15.980 And let me tell you, if you need insurance, the best place you can get insurance of all types, disability, auto, home, life, PolicyGenius.com.

00:46:23.680 I mean, Drew, it's almost impossible to insure for Drew.

00:46:26.300 I mean, it's basically like insuring your house after it's burned down if you're talking about life insurance for Andrew Klavan.

00:46:31.260 I have to pay them, yeah.

00:46:32.260 All right.

00:46:32.540 I mean, the only person who it's harder to buy life insurance for than Andrew Klavan is Joe Biden.

00:46:37.360 I mean, it's literally the only person.

00:46:39.080 And yet, Drew has been able to use Policy Genius with alacrity because it is indeed an incredible service that allows you to use the wisdom of the online gods in order to competitively shop your life insurance.

00:46:49.500 So go check them out at PolicyGenius.com and be a responsible person, which means, you know, actually go get the life insurance your family needs.

00:46:55.720 And I'll keep you updated on whether or not they're actually ever able to get coverage for me when next we meet.

00:47:01.440 Our guest today, Jocko Willink, is a decorated retired Navy SEAL officer, co-founder of Echelon Front, which offers leadership training based on combat leadership lessons, and is the author of Extreme Ownership and Leadership Strategy Tactics, his latest book.

00:47:16.100 He just did a video for Prager University.

00:47:17.920 You know, PragerU is basically a sister company of ours.

00:47:21.020 Michael and I work with Prager founder Alan Eskren on the scripts week to week.

00:47:26.100 Our animation team here had the privilege of animating Jocko's video.

00:47:30.100 It really moved me.

00:47:31.120 And since it's Memorial Day, I'd like to share a little bit of it with our audience before we welcome Jocko onto the show.

00:47:36.200 Here's the video.

00:47:38.080 I am the fallen soldier, sailor, airman, and marine.

00:47:43.620 Remember me.

00:47:44.960 I am the one that held the line.

00:47:46.840 Sometimes I volunteered.

00:47:50.400 Sometimes I went because I was told to go.

00:47:53.960 But when the nation called, I answered.

00:47:57.460 In order to serve, I left behind the family, friends, and freedom that so many take for granted.

00:48:04.260 Over time, I used different weapons.

00:48:07.820 A sword, a musket, a bayonet, a rifle, a machine gun.

00:48:15.360 Often, I marched into battle on foot.

00:48:18.720 Other times, I rode to battle on horseback or in wagons.

00:48:23.100 Sometimes on trains.

00:48:24.260 Later, in tanks or jeeps or Humvees.

00:48:29.820 In early wars, my ships were made of wood and powered by the wind.

00:48:35.880 Later, they were made of steel and powered by diesel fuel or the atom.

00:48:40.880 I even took to the air and mastered the sky in planes, helicopters, and jets.

00:48:47.140 The machines of war evolved and changed with the times.

00:48:51.820 But remember that it was always me, the warrior, that had to fight our nation's enemies.

00:48:58.240 On that distant battlefield, amongst the fear and the fire and the bullets.

00:49:04.000 Or in the sky above enemy territory filled with flak.

00:49:07.320 Or on the unforgiving sea, where we fought against the enemy and against the depths of the abyss.

00:49:14.240 There, in those awful places, I held the line.

00:49:19.480 I did not waver and I did not hesitate.

00:49:23.220 I, the soldier, sailor, airman, or marine.

00:49:27.460 I stood my ground and sacrificed my life, my future, my hopes, my dreams.

00:49:34.340 I sacrificed everything for you.

00:49:39.120 This Memorial Day, remember me, the fallen warrior.

00:49:44.580 And remember me, not for my sake, but for yours.

00:49:49.860 Remember what I sacrificed so you can truly appreciate the incredible treasures you have.

00:49:57.540 Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.

00:50:01.480 You have the joys of life, the joys that I gave up, so that you can relish in them.

00:50:09.840 A cool wind in the air, the gentle spring grass on your bare feet, the warm summer sun on your face.

00:50:18.020 Family, friends, and freedom.

00:50:22.440 Never forget where it all came from.

00:50:26.800 It came from sacrifice, the supreme sacrifice.

00:50:32.160 Live a life that honors us, the fallen heroes.

00:50:38.160 Remember us and make every day Memorial Day.

00:50:47.160 Unbelievable.

00:50:47.920 Jocko, welcome to the show.

00:50:48.920 Thanks for having me on.

00:50:51.760 I appreciate it.

00:50:53.440 This idea that we should treat every day like Memorial Day really resonated with me.

00:50:57.660 And I want to say it didn't just resonate with me.

00:51:00.220 The animation staff here who got the opportunity to work on this video,

00:51:04.360 they actually brought the script to me even before the video was shot.

00:51:08.420 And Alexia Garcia, who was heading up the department at the time,

00:51:11.440 had tears in her eyes telling me how much this video moved her as an immigrant to the country.

00:51:15.700 It's such a great, powerful thing that you've created here.

00:51:19.840 So thank you very much for doing it.

00:51:21.780 Well, thanks.

00:51:22.240 And I appreciate the folks over at Prager wanting to take those words and do the animation behind them.

00:51:27.880 And I think they did a great job.

00:51:30.380 You know, it's obviously for someone like myself, every day is Memorial Day.

00:51:35.960 Because every day, you know, we think about the friends that we lost and that's what we have to live with.

00:51:40.900 And I think it was, I tried to share that message and get everyone to kind of think about that as well.

00:51:47.260 You know, it's an amazing country that we live in.

00:51:49.740 One of the reasons is because we've separated out these holidays in a way that others haven't.

00:51:53.720 We have Veterans Day where we celebrate everyone who served in combat in the country's history.

00:52:00.460 We have Armed Forces Day where we remember everyone who's served,

00:52:03.980 regardless of whether or not we actually took the country to war during that period of time.

00:52:07.780 But Memorial Day is unique.

00:52:09.480 Memorial Day is the day that we remember those who didn't come back.

00:52:12.720 We very specifically remember the people who made that ultimate sacrifice

00:52:17.140 so that we can sit here and talk about nonsense on the Internet so that we can go home and raise our kids.

00:52:23.980 As, you know, as someone who did come back but knows those who didn't,

00:52:29.240 what sort of special way do you recognize Memorial Day when it comes along every year?

00:52:36.880 Well, you know, I live here in San Diego, California.

00:52:39.440 And in San Diego, California, at the top of a place called Point Loma,

00:52:44.280 there's Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery.

00:52:47.160 And I've got three of my friends are buried up there, three of the guys that worked for me.

00:52:51.740 Two of them died in the Battle of Ramadi, and one of them died later on in a training accident.

00:52:58.020 And there's a lot of other SEALs, and then obviously thousands of other servicemen are buried up there.

00:53:03.460 So, you know, that's what I do.

00:53:05.000 I go up there on Memorial Day, and I go see my old friends.

00:53:09.700 So I don't want to make the segment political Memorial Day is not a political holiday.

00:53:13.580 It's a day where all Americans of all persuasions can come together and honor the sacrifice of those

00:53:19.180 who've allowed us to engage in political debate on other days.

00:53:23.160 But there is one thing that happens in a democratic society that's somewhat unique,

00:53:27.960 and it's that we re-litigate all of our past decisions and we make them political after the fact.

00:53:32.700 You see it happening right now as the president contemplates a withdrawal from Afghanistan,

00:53:37.020 as we see the Taliban perhaps becoming partners in a negotiated peace settlement in Afghanistan

00:53:43.360 after warring against them, you know, for maybe the longest war in the history of the country.

00:53:48.240 You saw it during the previous administration when there was a drawdown of our forces in Iraq.

00:53:53.120 We've obviously all lived through some version of the shifting political narrative around the Vietnam War.

00:54:00.340 As a soldier, as someone who, you know, who was there, who sacrificed on the ground,

00:54:05.560 who saw other people make even greater sacrifices,

00:54:08.460 what does a soldier make of their sacrifices in the face of those sort of changing political narratives over time?

00:54:15.160 You know, for me, I think what's different for folks that served and went into combat is that

00:54:22.960 we actually know what it was like on the ground.

00:54:27.740 And so for me, having served in Baghdad and in the Battle of Ramadi,

00:54:31.700 you know, I got to see what it was like for the local citizens of Ramadi

00:54:36.620 to know that they were living under the most heinous and sadistic group of people

00:54:43.000 that you could ever imagine, that they cheered when we would kill insurgents,

00:54:47.460 that they helped us to try and root out the insurgents.

00:54:51.280 And so from that perspective on the ground, I know that we were doing the right thing.

00:54:56.260 And if I had to do it again, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

00:55:01.420 Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing now

00:55:03.800 and taking some of those lessons that you learned in the service, in the SEALs,

00:55:09.080 and helping other people learn about leadership and how to make their lives better?

00:55:13.000 With some of those same principles.

00:55:15.620 Yeah, you know, when I got home from the Battle of Ramadi,

00:55:20.080 one of the most important things that I brought back was the lessons that we learned,

00:55:24.860 the lessons that we learned in combat.

00:55:26.260 And I ended up taking over the training for the West Coast SEAL teams.

00:55:30.880 And the training that I took over wasn't the training where you see guys carrying logs

00:55:34.320 on their shoulders and carrying boats on their head.

00:55:37.940 The training that I took over was the tactical training

00:55:40.560 where we teach them to shoot, move, and communicate,

00:55:42.920 and where we teach SEALs leadership, combat leadership.

00:55:47.460 And so I immediately started teaching the principles that I had learned throughout my career,

00:55:52.400 but really that I had solidified and crystallized in the Battle of Ramadi.

00:55:55.980 Started teaching those to the young SEAL leaders.

00:55:57.640 When I ended up retiring from the SEAL teams, I worked with a civilian company

00:56:03.960 and immediately realized that everything that I had learned about leadership in the SEAL teams

00:56:08.800 applied to any aspect of leadership in any environment, leading any kind of team.

00:56:14.740 And the translations are universal.

00:56:17.340 And it doesn't matter if you're leading a group on the battlefield trying to capture or kill a bad guy,

00:56:21.260 or you are, you know, leading an organization that's trying to produce something or sell something.

00:56:27.160 Leadership is leadership is leadership.

00:56:28.780 And so now I have a company called Echelon Front, and that's what we do.

00:56:32.040 We work around the country and around the world, teaching people leadership

00:56:35.460 and helping them get their leaders and their organization aligned so they can lead and win.

00:56:40.900 What do you think would be most interesting to people who've not served in the military?

00:56:44.240 You know, one of the things that's always interesting to me about tier one operators

00:56:48.940 is that nothing like them has ever existed in all of human history, right?

00:56:52.680 We have this idea of what a soldier's life is like.

00:56:55.600 We might even have an idea of what special forces are like.

00:56:58.060 But you get these guys now who are the most lethal, the most highly trained, the most capable.

00:57:04.540 I think of them as like the pro athletes.

00:57:07.120 Like, you know, everybody could play ball in high school.

00:57:10.620 Only the best could go play in college.

00:57:12.040 Only the very best could make the pros.

00:57:14.440 And then there's that top echelon, the guys, you know, the Tom Brady's or whatever.

00:57:18.620 And those wind up being these sort of tier one guys who exist.

00:57:22.220 We've never seen their life, I don't think, in the history of warfare.

00:57:28.220 What kind of people does it take?

00:57:30.100 What are the special qualities that those people have?

00:57:34.360 Well, I'm not here to get into a bunch of disagreements with you.

00:57:38.360 But if you look at the tradition of the American fighting man, this is an unmatched tradition of men that are braver than you could ever imagine.

00:57:48.020 If you look at the guys that stormed the beaches in Normandy, if you look at the people that went through the Pacific campaign,

00:57:52.560 if you look at the frozen mountains of Korea, you can go to any war and you can find people that are unbelievably brave and courageous and very, very lethal.

00:58:04.860 And I think and, you know, I know that the video is edited down a bit from the original form.

00:58:10.780 But, you know, the main point of that of that Memorial Day video was to remind people that the soldier, sailor, airman and marine that we refer to, they're not just warriors.

00:58:23.960 They're actually human beings.

00:58:25.260 They're actually people.

00:58:26.120 And if there's anything that I would say, people that I would try and, you know, how you phrase the question, what would people want to know?

00:58:34.380 People should know that these soldiers at every level, soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, they're human beings and they have families, their brothers, their sisters, their fathers, their sons, their husbands, their wives.

00:58:46.960 They have hopes and dreams.

00:58:48.900 They have things that they want to accomplish in their life.

00:58:51.220 And they're willing to put all that on the line for the freedom and the way of life that we have in this country.

00:58:58.600 Well, feel free to disagree with me on those topics anytime.

00:59:01.780 Obviously, I know nothing and it's a real privilege to get to hear from someone who has those insights.

00:59:06.520 Thank you for everything that you do.

00:59:07.580 Thanks for coming on the show.

00:59:08.980 Thanks for helping us all think a little bit more clearly about this Memorial Day.

00:59:13.520 Thanks for having me on.

00:59:14.420 I appreciate it.

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01:01:47.220 Can you talk masks so that it can be like all three of you versus me?

01:01:50.760 Let's do it.

01:01:51.360 I'm in.

01:01:51.640 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, just a minute.

01:01:55.040 Just a minute.

01:01:55.640 I actually retweeted you today, Ben, on masks.

01:01:58.320 I think we may, we actually may agree on this.

01:02:00.340 You turncoat.

01:02:00.820 What is it that, I know what, what, I, I can't stand this, this idea that masks are a symbol

01:02:07.440 of anything.

01:02:09.220 That somehow we're fighting the American revolution.

01:02:12.080 Yeah.

01:02:12.300 We're somehow fighting the American revolution.

01:02:13.900 I think what is, what is truly bad, what is truly bad is the overbearing fascistic in

01:02:19.760 your face approach of some of governors that I, you know, that I won't mention like Gretchen

01:02:24.060 Whitmer who are just gone out of their way to offend everybody's sense of freedom and

01:02:28.860 independence.

01:02:29.620 But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be polite and wear a mask when you go into a crowded

01:02:33.020 store.

01:02:33.560 I think that's pretty reasonable.

01:02:35.180 The violation, the violation is the violation of the, of the governors and the mayors who are

01:02:40.900 overstepping their bounds.

01:02:41.880 It's not that the mask is no good.

01:02:43.720 Well, you know, to use a phrase that Ben uses a lot, I think two things can be true at once.

01:02:47.580 And I hate to make my opinion more reasonable here, but it is the case there obviously is

01:02:52.900 a use for masks, right?

01:02:54.360 That's why masks exist in the first place.

01:02:56.920 It's a little odd that the surgeon general told us that masks are terrible and no one

01:03:00.000 should ever buy them.

01:03:00.820 And then two seconds later, he said, we all have to buy them.

01:03:02.980 But, but, but putting that political aspect aside, obviously there's a use for masks.

01:03:06.680 But when you look at someone like mayor Eric Garcetti, who I think might be the most foolish

01:03:10.940 mayor in America, including Bill de Blasio, at least it's, it's close.

01:03:14.980 You know, Eric Garcetti the other day was giving an address in the center of empty Dodger

01:03:20.620 stadium.

01:03:21.060 So not just an empty baseball stadium, he's standing actually in the center of it and he

01:03:25.720 puts the mask on.

01:03:26.700 Does he think that there's going to be a heat seeking guided missile of coronavirus

01:03:30.760 that's aimed at him?

01:03:32.140 No, I don't think so.

01:03:32.900 That's, that obviously is a political statement.

01:03:35.060 When Joe Biden puts a mask on in his backyard, far away from everybody, and then makes that

01:03:39.460 picture his avatar on Twitter, that makes the mask a political statement.

01:03:43.820 And so I think the left has politicized it and they're asking us to wear masks in a way

01:03:47.320 that is unreasonable.

01:03:48.680 That doesn't mean we shouldn't wear masks when it is reasonable, but, but I think we do have

01:03:52.720 to accept that they are making it a symbol.

01:03:54.880 So I agree.

01:03:55.620 I think that one of the dangers here though, is being sucked into the sort of reactionary

01:03:59.820 moment that we are in.

01:04:01.400 And that is, you've got these Democrats, many of whom are basically suggesting that unless

01:04:05.320 you duct tape your face, like your entire head, like you just take the roll of duct

01:04:08.340 tape and go all the way around your head until you suffocate, that you are doing something

01:04:11.840 deeply wrong and endangering the elderly or some such.

01:04:14.400 And then in response, you have a bunch of people who are like, well, guess what?

01:04:16.960 I'm never wearing a mask because masks don't do anything.

01:04:19.580 And all those surgical masks that people wear in the operating rooms, they're useless,

01:04:23.180 completely useless.

01:04:24.280 I'm just going to go into the supermarket and lick all the milk cartons because that's the

01:04:28.000 way things get that herd immunity, baby.

01:04:30.560 Go for it.

01:04:31.680 And so this is where, you know, I think that we ought to be pretty careful.

01:04:35.920 I actually think that it's sort of a bit of a clever stratagem by a man who is legitimately

01:04:40.280 comatose and Joe Biden.

01:04:41.320 Like I wasn't aware that lack of brain activity could actually create cleverness of this sort

01:04:45.900 in that by polarizing the debate and making it into, I'm a responsible citizen and responsible

01:04:50.680 citizens wear masks versus willy nilly.

01:04:53.320 Everybody is out there not wearing a mask and partying it up at the lake, the lake of the

01:04:56.880 Ozarks and all.

01:04:58.200 It's actually a smart pitch for the security moms from 2004 because security moms are basically

01:05:02.760 like, OK, well, how about this?

01:05:03.940 How about we be reasonable?

01:05:05.520 Wear masks where we're supposed to wear masks.

01:05:07.080 I'm a little worried about this.

01:05:08.160 I want to make sure that our leadership is worried about this.

01:05:10.260 So the the open virtue signaling of wearing the mask that Biden is doing right now and

01:05:14.220 then sort of taunting Trump into taking the position that masks are inherently a sign of

01:05:19.180 cookery, that you are less masculine and you don't actually you've never eaten a steak

01:05:23.720 if you if you ever wear a mask like that.

01:05:25.580 That's that's a foolish move.

01:05:26.880 And there's no reason to fall into that trap because there's a perfectly reasonable response

01:05:30.000 is you're right, Joe, we should wear masks.

01:05:31.740 But also, you should probably not do that when you are just like in your backyard by yourself

01:05:35.760 or in your basement by yourself, which are apparently the only two places that you ever

01:05:38.680 go. So I obviously have a slightly different take on the mask issue.

01:05:42.360 I mean, I largely agree with what you guys are saying.

01:05:44.540 My problem is the government has been wrong about every single thing that they've said 100

01:05:48.420 percent about the virus from minute one.

01:05:50.320 Yeah, the virus targets people who are already retired.

01:05:54.080 Let's shut down all the jobs.

01:05:55.740 The virus in no way affects people who are under the age of 20.

01:05:59.660 Let's shut down all the schools.

01:06:01.360 Everyone who goes on a ventilator dies.

01:06:03.120 Let's make 50,000 more of them masks.

01:06:06.680 No, nobody should wear a mask.

01:06:07.980 A mask could be useful.

01:06:09.000 Then everybody should wear a mask at every turn.

01:06:11.700 Whatever they say is wrong.

01:06:12.840 So I know.

01:06:13.860 So I got to thinking if they've been wrong about everything, I bet they're wrong about

01:06:17.080 this mask thing, too.

01:06:18.220 It's just statistics.

01:06:19.580 Just statistics.

01:06:19.780 It's a probability.

01:06:20.340 And what are they saying about the mask?

01:06:21.440 They're saying the mask is only effective at preventing transmission.

01:06:25.060 It is not effective at preventing infection.

01:06:27.840 And I think to myself, I think that is absurd on its face.

01:06:32.880 It's absolutely absurd to say that if I sneeze into a piece of cloth at high velocity, a sneeze, high

01:06:40.560 velocity particles go into it.

01:06:42.260 It will successively prevent all of those particles from going out into the world.

01:06:46.560 But if you, the person who's worried, are wearing the same mask and I'm not, and I sneeze five

01:06:52.680 feet away from you, the low velocity, highly diffused particles that make it all the way to you

01:06:57.700 will not be stopped by the exact same mask that you're wearing.

01:07:01.560 It's a way, the mask controversies that currently exist, in my view,

01:07:05.600 it's a way of making healthy people act like they're sick.

01:07:08.900 Instead of doing what we should be doing, which is isolating the vulnerable and the sick,

01:07:15.140 the actually sick, the demonstrably sick, not the you could be sick and don't know,

01:07:19.540 the demonstrably sick and the vulnerable and taking care of them.

01:07:23.060 The left can't win on a narrative of if you are at risk or if you are particularly concerned,

01:07:29.320 take special precautions because that doesn't give them electoral advantage,

01:07:32.680 that doesn't give them narrative advantage.

01:07:34.060 And so we've allowed, we've allowed them to convince us that the answer is that every human,

01:07:40.000 the vast majority of whom are perfectly healthy and not at risk, even if they weren't,

01:07:45.460 has to modify their behavior so that the, while meanwhile, they, the same government,

01:07:51.320 are like shoving as many sick people into nursing homes as they could possibly.

01:07:55.240 And meanwhile, by the way, they initially told us we had to wear the masks because

01:07:58.500 you could catch the coronavirus from infected services.

01:08:01.160 So you wear the mask so that your particles don't land on tables and things like that.

01:08:04.660 But then, you know, five seconds ago, they say, actually, you're very unlikely to contract

01:08:08.800 the virus from contaminated surfaces.

01:08:10.620 So the case, as the case for constantly wearing masks all the time falls apart,

01:08:15.720 they seem to double down on it, which seems to make it so much more political.

01:08:19.740 I think that we have, have to say that we have actually achieved top Shapiroism and that

01:08:25.660 everything is now stupid.

01:08:27.140 I think that that's, I think that is what we've managed to achieve.

01:08:29.760 We've managed to achieve Ben Shapiro's America.

01:08:32.260 I think it's amazing.

01:08:33.460 Listen, of course, there's a time and a place for masks.

01:08:36.360 There is a reason that they wear masks.

01:08:38.180 Halloween.

01:08:39.320 There's a reason.

01:08:40.320 I knew you were going to hear it.

01:08:41.660 I can see that punchline coming like three miles away, like a slow train moving down the

01:08:46.060 track.

01:08:46.420 Good night, everybody.

01:08:47.200 Thanks for tuning in to our, it's like the lady at Walmart that I saw online today,

01:08:52.480 who her mask was just a scuba mask and a snorkel.

01:08:57.900 Whatever helps.

01:08:58.820 Now, of course, there's a time to wear a mask.

01:09:00.720 There's a reason that you wear a mask in surgery.

01:09:02.600 That is to prevent transmission because you've got someone slayed out on a table who can't,

01:09:07.540 who can't do anything to take care of themselves to guard against what you might transmit.

01:09:11.460 And therefore you, the potential transmitter have to be the one to take that particular

01:09:16.340 precaution.

01:09:16.920 But I don't think, generally speaking, that it's a good thing that we've bought into this

01:09:21.520 idea that the healthy must act as though they are a threat to the also healthy, that

01:09:27.880 that's the only way that we can declare victory here.

01:09:30.040 I just think it's a losing profit.

01:09:31.120 You know, I've actually made my own custom masks.

01:09:33.360 I designed them today.

01:09:34.320 And on the front of the mask, it's just that tweet from the surgeon general that says,

01:09:38.460 stop buying masks, people.

01:09:40.000 And I'm going to have that on there.

01:09:41.120 I'm going to wear it all over.

01:09:42.140 And that, I think that's a compromise.

01:09:43.080 Is that what passes for compromise now?

01:09:50.380 I have nothing more here.

01:09:51.700 Yeah.

01:09:52.140 That's it.

01:09:52.580 Thank you.

01:09:53.400 Now, I'm going to re-intro our friend Gary Sinise, because I just spoke at length for

01:09:58.860 like eight minutes about how great Gary is, and then Gary wasn't ready to go on the show,

01:10:02.780 and no one would just do me the simple courtesy of coming in my ear and saying, hey, Jeremy,

01:10:06.720 you're getting a little ahead of schedule.

01:10:08.280 You know, Gary was on.

01:10:09.100 He just wants to hear it again.

01:10:10.420 I think.

01:10:10.600 Do another.

01:10:11.180 I think what I said was that our friend Gary Sinise has been a humanitarian looking after

01:10:17.540 veterans and first responders since all the way back in his days at Steppenwolf Theater

01:10:21.400 in Chicago, when he really, even in those days, was doing events honoring veterans of Vietnam.

01:10:28.600 After 9-11, he expanded his work to include not only our nation's heroes in uniform, but

01:10:34.620 also frontline responders, firefighters, police officers.

01:10:37.840 And more recently, he's been doing enormous work for the people who are on the front lines of the

01:10:43.020 pandemic.

01:10:43.860 I think we have a little video before we bring Gary on the show of the terrific work that the

01:10:47.600 Gary Sinise Foundation has been doing these last several months while the nation has been

01:10:52.060 facing these difficult times.

01:10:54.200 In the past few weeks, the Gary Sinise Foundation's Emergency COVID-19 Combat Service has donated more

01:11:00.260 than 4,000 pieces of equipment to first responders across the country.

01:11:04.380 Johnson County Med Act has a new tool to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.

01:11:08.960 The county received three new ozone decontamination units for their ambulances and other vehicles.

01:11:14.800 It sterilizes the areas that would be much harder to get to with just a surface wipe.

01:11:19.160 This organization is providing PPE equipment and essential gear that the first responders need

01:11:24.460 while they're out there working on the front lines.

01:11:26.260 We'd like to thank the Gary Sinise Foundation for the grant they gave us to help us purchase

01:11:30.760 this much-needed personal protective equipment.

01:11:33.580 This new program of the foundation has become a gateway to providing relief on many levels.

01:11:38.960 I have to say that we're actually supporting, or we have supported, 45 different first responder

01:11:44.820 stations in 21 states that are serving a population that's 2.8 million people across the country.

01:11:51.460 And we're covering the cost of groceries, utility bills, moving costs, rent, and mortgage payments

01:11:57.920 to many affected by COVID-19.

01:12:00.780 I can't even explain how much that means.

01:12:04.960 You know, I can't even thank you.

01:12:11.000 The list of contributions goes on, yet our work is far from over.

01:12:16.880 More help is needed, and more help is on the way.

01:12:20.620 When I heard about the COVID-19 campaign, I wanted to offer my full support.

01:12:25.440 I learned about the foundation through Gary's book, Grateful American.

01:12:28.660 His story just resonates with me, and his dream of giving back to those who give so much

01:12:34.120 and ask so little in return, to be able to help out and donate is just an honor of mine.

01:12:40.500 During this extraordinary time, the generosity of thousands of Americans continues to enable

01:12:45.580 the Gary Sinise Foundation to ensure our nation's heroes and their loved ones are receiving the

01:12:50.520 support and resources needed to overcome the crisis facing our country.

01:12:55.260 For over six decades, my father, Bob Hope, entertained the troops around the world, while also supporting

01:13:02.120 first responders.

01:13:04.040 The foundation my mother and father created carries on his legacy today.

01:13:09.760 And during these challenging times, we are proud to contribute to the work Gary and his foundation

01:13:15.040 are doing.

01:13:16.560 Supporting our heroes on the front lines who are doing so much during this COVID-19 pandemic

01:13:22.480 is paramount.

01:13:24.500 Thank you to those of you on the front lines making a difference every day.

01:13:30.320 Thank you to those of you on the sidelines cheering them on, offering your support in whatever

01:13:36.040 way you can.

01:13:37.600 And thank you to all of you.

01:13:40.320 From one grateful American, God bless you as you go.

01:13:52.480 Please welcome to the show, Gary Sinise.

01:13:56.400 Gary, thanks for coming on.

01:13:58.160 Hey, thanks for having me.

01:13:59.320 Hi, everybody.

01:14:00.980 That was great.

01:14:01.920 Thank you for playing that.

01:14:03.300 Well, thank you for the work that you do.

01:14:05.160 The Gary Sinise Foundation does so much for the nation's veterans.

01:14:08.980 And one of the things that, one of the reasons we wanted to have you on is sort of recognition

01:14:12.880 of Memorial Day and to get perspective from you on the work that you and the foundation

01:14:16.600 have been doing.

01:14:17.100 But when the team said that you were also doing this amazing work for our first responders

01:14:22.080 during this pandemic, we thought, well, that's a really important thing that we should be

01:14:25.740 able to support.

01:14:26.440 So we'd encourage everyone to go over to the Gary Sinise Foundation and make a donation

01:14:30.220 to support the work that you guys are doing right now.

01:14:33.060 Thanks, Jeremy.

01:14:34.020 I appreciate that.

01:14:35.640 Yeah.

01:14:36.640 We kind of jumped in in March.

01:14:40.260 We started to get, you know, various requests coming in from around the country, from departments

01:14:47.400 around the country that were in need of this personal protective equipment and whatnot.

01:14:52.240 And then we saw kind of a storm brewing and all of that.

01:14:55.860 So we launched this campaign, the COVID-19 combat service campaign, April 1st.

01:15:02.560 And since then, we've raised over a million dollars.

01:15:06.000 We've passed much of that on so far to first responder departments all around the country.

01:15:12.060 We're working with 80 different VA hospitals, supporting them in various ways around the

01:15:19.140 country, just sending out a lot of support where it's needed.

01:15:23.860 And we're getting more and more requests in all the time so we can use the help.

01:15:27.160 That's for sure.

01:15:28.600 So with Memorial Day having just passed, Gary, one of the things that's been on my mind

01:15:32.800 as the country sort of moves away from the active part of the wars, the war on terror,

01:15:37.440 you know, we fought the war in Afghanistan.

01:15:39.020 That seems to be winding down.

01:15:40.400 We fought the war in Iraq.

01:15:41.880 That ended during the last presidency.

01:15:44.080 We've dealt with ISIS more recently.

01:15:46.780 As we move further and further from that sort of time period where everyone's thinking

01:15:50.500 about combat all the time, does the work of the foundation get harder as that sort

01:15:55.300 of becomes a more distant memory for the donors?

01:16:00.120 It doesn't, no.

01:16:01.300 Well, I mean, it's the ongoing work is always difficult.

01:16:06.180 We're trying to rally support for the men and women who defend our country.

01:16:11.180 And there's a lot of there's a lot of need out there in a lot of different ways.

01:16:15.260 So people, you know, people always ask, well, why should I support this particular effort,

01:16:20.700 this particular organization over another that's that's doing something?

01:16:24.640 We have an ongoing challenge here.

01:16:26.900 We're residual effects that we're going to be facing for many, many, many years from

01:16:31.280 these ongoing wars that we've been involved with since September 11th, 2001.

01:16:36.700 I mean, we're still we're still supporting Vietnam veterans, you know, I mean, and and

01:16:41.340 and World War Two veterans.

01:16:42.840 So the the challenge and the effort to support the men and women who serve our country and

01:16:49.060 defend us.

01:16:49.660 That's that's just that's just a daily Memorial Day is every day.

01:16:54.600 We've got to remember the fallen.

01:16:56.080 We've got to remember that we have people on the front lines.

01:16:58.980 We've got to remember that the children of our fallen.

01:17:01.580 We've got to remember our wounded.

01:17:03.200 These these people are sacrificing each and every day.

01:17:05.920 And my foundation, you know, from the very beginning has also been focused on supporting our first

01:17:13.660 responders from the very beginning of starting the foundation.

01:17:17.560 I have been involved with supporting, you know, the FDNY and firefighters in New York after

01:17:25.540 9-11.

01:17:26.980 And once I started the foundation, I wanted to make sure that we were outreaching across

01:17:31.960 the country to the people that that defend and protect our cities.

01:17:36.060 And now more than ever are not maybe more than ever, but certainly right now, these these

01:17:43.280 first responders are right in the thick of this deadly enemy that we're facing.

01:17:48.600 And now we've, you know, we've begun supporting our nurses, our doctors, our health care workers,

01:17:55.340 the staff members that are working in these hospitals, dealing with all these patients that

01:18:00.100 are coming in.

01:18:00.640 So there's a lot of need out there.

01:18:02.240 I don't think it's going to stop.

01:18:04.280 We're just part of the part of the the team here trying to get something good done.

01:18:10.500 So we we met for the first time in 2007.

01:18:14.800 I know that your work with first responders and your work with veterans really has been

01:18:19.240 gone back long before Forrest Gump, all the way back to your Steppenwolf days.

01:18:24.100 And just in the time I've known you, though, I can only imagine that you've interacted probably

01:18:28.620 with more of our nation's first responders, interacted with more of our nation's veterans,

01:18:33.380 interacted with more of our nation's active duty military than probably just about any

01:18:39.400 other living American.

01:18:40.580 What is it about that that group of people that draws your heart the way that it does?

01:18:46.400 Well, I appreciate you saying that.

01:18:50.300 I mean, I don't know if it's more than any other living American, but that's kind of you

01:18:54.860 to say that, Jeremy.

01:18:55.880 Well, Toby Keeney.

01:18:57.660 Toby Keeney is out there.

01:18:59.760 He's done some tours, yeah, for the USO and been supportive.

01:19:04.900 Yeah.

01:19:05.100 Look, there's other people that are out there doing it.

01:19:09.160 But but I've just decided because because of the veterans in my own family and the work

01:19:13.440 that I've done in the past with Vietnam veterans and with our wounded post for Forrest Gump and

01:19:20.080 all of that.

01:19:20.860 And then September 11th, I just decided that this was kind of a calling and that that there

01:19:28.740 was a role for me to play and there was a way that I could support.

01:19:31.940 And the more I did, the more I saw the benefit of getting out there and putting my boots on

01:19:39.000 the ground and going out there and visiting our troops and supporting multiple military

01:19:43.780 charities out there who were, you know, supporting them in various ways.

01:19:48.600 And I felt by supporting a lot of different charities, I could help a lot more people.

01:19:53.240 So I was raising money for multiple charities and raising awareness, doing PSAs, whatever I

01:19:59.300 could do, showing up at events, playing concerts to raise money, whatever it was.

01:20:04.300 And then when I started my own foundation, it was it was because I'd been involved with

01:20:08.320 so many other organizations.

01:20:09.640 And I just saw a great need out there and I saw what these people were doing and I was

01:20:14.960 inspired by their work and I wanted to help them.

01:20:17.160 And I felt that, you know, at the time I started my foundation, I developed a pretty good track

01:20:26.060 record for supporting the troops out there.

01:20:27.940 And people people knew I was in this game.

01:20:30.300 So why not call it the Gary Sinise Foundation?

01:20:32.800 Just, you know, start raising money to do more good.

01:20:36.540 And since then, I mean, we've raised hundreds of millions of dollars to support the men and

01:20:41.620 women who serve our country and our first responders.

01:20:44.960 And we'll continue to do that.

01:20:47.720 We're a growing foundation.

01:20:50.000 You've been over the office, guys, and you've seen some of the stuff that we're doing over

01:20:55.000 there.

01:20:55.400 We continue to grow and we continue to expand and we continue to reach more people because

01:21:01.240 there's a need out there.

01:21:02.780 Gary, you know, I think I read somewhere that the number of Americans or the percentage of

01:21:07.860 Americans who have served, I think maybe at an all time low, it's certainly very low.

01:21:12.520 And so in your work in the foundation, do you find that there is an education gap maybe,

01:21:17.840 you know, between the civilians and those who have served?

01:21:21.140 I mean, is that is that, you know, an aspect of of what you're seeing as well?

01:21:27.220 I think so, Michael.

01:21:28.980 I mean, it's, you know, I felt like from the beginning of really, really getting actively

01:21:37.740 involved post-September 11th that one thing that I could do as an entertainer, as a person

01:21:43.380 with a public platform is to shine a spotlight and to go where the troops were and see what

01:21:49.960 they're doing and try to talk about it on television and radio and try to encourage other

01:21:55.920 people to focus on our defenders and why it's important to support them.

01:22:01.780 And I did, you know, I did find if you don't have a personal relationship with anyone who's

01:22:07.080 served in the military or you have a family member that you, you know, have who's served

01:22:13.300 in the military and understanding of what military life can be like, you're really disconnected

01:22:18.780 from our military.

01:22:20.320 And there are a great number of Americans out there that are just they don't have that

01:22:25.260 personal connection or personal relationship.

01:22:28.020 They're not around military bases or they're not around soldiers.

01:22:31.560 They just don't interact with them.

01:22:33.600 So somebody like me who's on television or radio or whatever, I've made it a kind of a

01:22:39.160 mission to just try and talk about what I see and what I experience.

01:22:43.540 That's why I wrote my book, Grateful America.

01:22:46.820 It was it was all about just trying to help people understand how I got involved, why I got

01:22:53.340 involved, what motivated me to get involved, the types of people I was meeting that were

01:22:57.800 inspirational to me.

01:22:59.560 And I put it all in the book and and and tried to you, you know, try to encourage people,

01:23:06.100 hopefully, to read the book and see what happened to me.

01:23:10.280 And what happened to me was I was inspired by a lot of incredible people that I've met over

01:23:15.140 the years.

01:23:15.580 And I've tried to talk about those incredible people so that other people understand why we

01:23:20.920 should be so grateful as Americans.

01:23:24.260 And so and that we have such a dynamic force out there and people that are willing to go

01:23:31.380 out there and do the heavy lifting to defend us.

01:23:34.940 Gary, how can people support the work of the foundation?

01:23:37.240 Well, the best thing to do is go learn about it at the Gary Sinise Foundation dot org.

01:23:45.100 Pick up my book.

01:23:46.620 There's a whole you know, the whole book is called A Journey from Self to Service.

01:23:51.760 I've been Ben and I spent a good good hour talking on his show about the book.

01:23:58.180 And I was very grateful, Ben, you had me on.

01:24:00.980 But the whole book is about kind of going from sort of a self-focused life, you know, my acting

01:24:10.040 career and, you know, movie business and TV and all that stuff to a different focus, which

01:24:17.800 was service and service work.

01:24:21.220 And so I write about that in detail in the book.

01:24:23.860 And the whole last part of the book is all about the Gary Sinise Foundation and how most of

01:24:29.360 the book just manifested itself into the creation of that.

01:24:33.000 So I encourage people to go to the Gary Sinise Foundation website, Gary Sinise Foundation dot

01:24:38.600 org.

01:24:39.240 You can check out our program page and see just multiple initiatives in many different spaces

01:24:45.900 that we're we're covering.

01:24:48.300 A lot of people when I started the foundation, the legal guys said.

01:24:53.040 Well, what's your thing going to be?

01:24:54.780 You know, what are you what are you know, do you are you the home builder guy or are you

01:25:00.460 know, are you, you know, working with the wounded?

01:25:02.760 What what is your thing?

01:25:03.800 And I said, well, my my thing is a lot of different stuff because that's what I'd done.

01:25:08.120 Yeah.

01:25:08.220 So that's why the Gary Sinise Foundation covers a lot of ground, including first responders.

01:25:12.940 And right now we're in the midst of a very good campaign to help the people that are fighting

01:25:18.360 this fight against COVID-19.

01:25:20.480 Well, and the best thing about your book, Gary, is that both you and Ben in the same

01:25:26.340 three or four month window held live book signings with Premier Collectibles.

01:25:32.020 And we're getting ready to have a second book signing for Ben's new book, which is about

01:25:35.820 to come out.

01:25:36.680 And I was on the phone with Premier Collectibles the other day and I said, oh, are we all ready?

01:25:39.940 Is everybody excited?

01:25:40.720 And they go, oh, yeah, we love you guys so much.

01:25:43.440 Your people just love Ben.

01:25:45.460 You know, Ben is well, you know, he's one of our best selling authors ever.

01:25:48.740 I said, well, what do you mean one of?

01:25:50.700 And they said, well, I mean, Gary Sinise, his book just absolutely destroyed you guys.

01:25:57.040 And that actually gives me some hope for America.

01:25:59.780 I'll give I'll give you a little secret, Ben, there.

01:26:01.940 You just have to be willing to sit there hours after hour after hour and sign those little

01:26:07.500 stickers.

01:26:08.480 And if you're willing to do that, you could you could beat me.

01:26:11.860 I also have to be an iconic American of my generation.

01:26:14.260 I think I'm a little behind in that department, Gary, so it'll take me give me a few more

01:26:19.720 decades.

01:26:22.520 Gary, thank you for coming on the show.

01:26:23.980 And thanks for the great work that you do at the Gary Sinise Foundation.

01:26:26.940 I appreciate you having me on, guys.

01:26:28.900 Thank you.

01:26:29.660 Take care.

01:26:31.780 So we all know, Gary, that one of the most fun things about knowing Gary is getting to

01:26:37.180 vicariously feel like you're a good person because you're like, I've never had that experience.

01:26:42.220 I mean, I said some encouraging things to Gary.

01:26:48.060 I'd like to think that while he's out there doing all of it, that he might think that when

01:26:52.260 it gets hard, he might think that.

01:26:53.660 It's like when you show up to a party with somebody, you know, and the somebody bought

01:26:58.040 the gift and then you kind of show and you're like, yeah, this one's from both of us.

01:27:01.400 That's how I feel about Gary is like, yeah, all this good stuff.

01:27:04.340 That's from that's from both of us.

01:27:05.860 Yeah.

01:27:06.100 But I will say I want to know I want to know if he's moved, if he's moved from self to

01:27:10.540 service, are they going to kick him out of Hollywood?

01:27:12.820 That's what I want to know.

01:27:14.920 They may actually be illegal in the city.

01:27:17.380 They didn't know there was anywhere after self.

01:27:19.860 One beautiful thing about the Gary Sinise Foundation that I will say, you know, when

01:27:25.480 people a lot of people want to support our first responders, they want to support our

01:27:30.440 veterans and they and you see all these organizations out there and you don't know if they're legitimate.

01:27:35.320 You don't know if this is a scam or people are going to take my money.

01:27:37.680 And one of the beautiful things, each one of the four of us knows Gary and knows the

01:27:42.240 work of the foundation.

01:27:42.960 We've all been to the foundation.

01:27:44.340 We've supported the foundation in very small ways, obviously.

01:27:48.700 It's it is such an amazing organization.

01:27:51.800 And the beauty of Gary is Gary isn't like some guy who had one hit back in 1973 and he

01:27:59.160 actually needed to make a living.

01:28:00.540 And so he started a charity and he's really funneling about half of that money into his pocket.

01:28:04.500 You know, Gary was a guy when he at the time that he starts the Gary Sinise Foundation,

01:28:08.320 he has one of the hit shows on television.

01:28:10.760 He has this lengthy, unbelievable career of being in some of the greatest movies.

01:28:16.480 He's not a guy who needed to do this.

01:28:18.620 He's not a guy who's filtering money into Gary Sinise.

01:28:21.780 This is a guy who is legitimately devoted himself in a very selfless way to serving others.

01:28:28.320 And and you couldn't you could not do much better than to support the Gary Sinise Foundation.

01:28:34.180 I want to hear from some of our DailyWire.com subscribers.

01:28:37.760 I believe we have Alicia here to ask us a few questions on their behalf.

01:28:41.960 Yeah, and absolutely.

01:28:42.900 Along the lines of those who have decided to voluntarily serve, there is a Daily Wire subscriber

01:28:48.220 that wonders, would it actually be better, though, if the United States moved into a system

01:28:51.940 like Israel has that requires everyone to serve?

01:28:54.260 Because he thinks that that will create more innovation and success for the American economy

01:28:58.880 than them wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on higher education, a.k.a. college,

01:29:04.120 a.k.a. liberal propaganda.

01:29:05.980 No.

01:29:07.040 I mean, I think everybody should weigh in on this question, but I'm decidedly no.

01:29:11.140 Israel is in a very unique situation.

01:29:13.120 It's an incredibly small country with an incredibly with a proportionally small population surrounded

01:29:19.580 on all sides by active, violent, hostile neighbors.

01:29:24.840 And so they have to make special considerations for how to defend a country in that position.

01:29:29.180 They need every one of their citizens to be able to defend the nation.

01:29:33.920 America is much different.

01:29:36.120 We're surrounded by the two largest bodies of water on Earth and Canada, somewhere to the

01:29:41.300 north of us.

01:29:41.780 We live in a hemisphere where we basically control the hemisphere, and we have a very diverse

01:29:49.660 population, most of whom will never know any sort of hostile action from a foreign adversary.

01:29:56.460 To use conscription in a country like this, I think, actually breeds malcontent.

01:30:03.460 It actually breeds hatred of government.

01:30:05.560 But instead of in Israel, where conscription actually breeds a kind of sense of common

01:30:11.280 struggle, because there is struggle in America, it would only breed a sense of common resentment

01:30:17.000 because you're not actually bringing people into the struggle.

01:30:19.660 You're only bringing people into an institution that they don't actively want to serve in.

01:30:23.560 One of the beautiful things about our country and one of the reasons we've been so successful,

01:30:28.300 I think, during this sort of American century is because at least for the second half of that

01:30:32.840 century and beyond, our military has been a voluntary military force.

01:30:36.540 And that means that it actually draws people who want to be there.

01:30:40.280 It draws people who want to serve.

01:30:42.460 And that is a certain caliber of people that a draft or a conscription, a conscripted army

01:30:48.180 can't claim.

01:30:49.160 You know, though, Jeremy, I see that point.

01:30:51.920 And there is, though, a sense that right now, increasingly, we are all funneling our 18-year-olds

01:30:58.340 into a certain path.

01:30:59.540 And that path is college.

01:31:00.600 We are now telling 18-year-olds they must go to college.

01:31:03.860 They have to go to a very particular kind of college, even if it won't help them, even

01:31:07.120 if it won't give them much of an education, even if it won't set them up to have a prosperous

01:31:10.520 life.

01:31:11.100 And there's no law saying you have to go to college yet because Elizabeth Warren didn't

01:31:14.880 win.

01:31:15.300 But, you know, there is a big social force.

01:31:18.060 So I do wonder if there were a social force that said, hey, do two years at least of service,

01:31:23.740 if that would give us some kind of common culture, common love of our country, some firearms

01:31:28.600 training, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, to defend our cherished political

01:31:32.480 traditions and freedoms.

01:31:33.900 You know, I just notice increasingly in the country, there's so little that binds us together.

01:31:38.700 We don't even have a common TV culture anymore.

01:31:40.780 We don't even have a common movie culture.

01:31:42.620 I mean, we're becoming so isolated that perhaps a common sense of service might be a better

01:31:48.900 alternative than the other kinds of common institutions we're being pushed into that probably won't serve

01:31:54.480 the country that well.

01:31:55.360 Sure.

01:31:56.000 I actually agree with that to some extent.

01:31:58.420 It doesn't have to be military service.

01:32:00.420 I've been disturbed during this kind of lockdown or crisis or whatever it is.

01:32:05.600 I've been disturbed at the kind of childish view of liberty that we've developed.

01:32:09.340 I mean, liberty is not a point unto itself.

01:32:11.960 It is a way of living life.

01:32:13.620 It's a way of pursuing happiness.

01:32:14.880 It's a way of preserving the idea of the individual as a key actor and as an end in himself.

01:32:22.560 And I don't think that asking everybody to serve in some way is such a bad idea.

01:32:28.400 I have to agree with Knowles on this.

01:32:29.980 I don't like this idea.

01:32:32.140 Liberty is not like just you're not the boss of me.

01:32:34.380 Liberty is a way of respecting one another.

01:32:37.400 It is a way of looking at it, not just at yourself, but looking at the other guy.

01:32:40.760 And it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we could inculcate that a little bit through service,

01:32:44.440 through action, instead of sending people off to colleges where guys who've never done

01:32:48.860 anything for anybody teach them about systems that have never worked anywhere and basically,

01:32:53.840 you know, brainwash them into nonsense.

01:32:56.780 If you have to do something, if you have to do something useful for everybody, I don't

01:33:01.640 think that's such a bad thing.

01:33:02.680 And I think that really the only thing that's ever stood between us and that have been unions

01:33:06.680 and the fact that they don't want us to find out that we could do their jobs for them.

01:33:10.760 Yeah, I have problems with the basic idea of national service, as Jeremy does, namely

01:33:17.180 because we do have a form of national service in this country, which is called public school.

01:33:21.440 Whenever you put people in the position in this country of being drafted into public

01:33:26.220 institutions, it typically doesn't go well because it turns out that the same people

01:33:29.380 you guys despise at the college level tend to run the public institutions into which

01:33:33.320 we inculcate people, unless we are talking explicitly about the military.

01:33:36.980 And as Jeremy sort of suggested, I mean, the founders were not super comfortable with the

01:33:41.480 idea of a standing military altogether in the first place.

01:33:43.900 And then the idea that we are going to be drafting presumably tens of millions of Americans

01:33:48.620 into military service where they live in barracks under the harsh rule of government without

01:33:53.580 any consent of their own.

01:33:54.900 This used to be a fairly controversial idea.

01:33:56.680 It was pretty controversial throughout the Civil War.

01:33:58.560 It was controversial in World War I.

01:34:00.460 It was less controversial in World War II because there was an active threat against the American

01:34:03.720 homeland after Pearl Harbor, but the draft became so controversial again that we did away with the

01:34:07.540 draft, and I think to good effect.

01:34:10.120 The big problem that you guys are talking about solving is a problem I don't think that can be

01:34:12.920 solved by government.

01:34:13.580 What you're talking about is, again, a lack of social fabric, which I've talked about a lot,

01:34:17.120 the lack of feelings that we owe one another.

01:34:20.080 And those things have to exist outside the bounds of government.

01:34:22.240 Government cannot really create that.

01:34:24.280 And in Israel, it does exist outside the bounds of government, but it's also a different thing,

01:34:28.420 again, because Israel is under existential threat at literally all times.

01:34:31.380 I mean, at all times, even people who are no longer serving the military are basically

01:34:35.720 off duty.

01:34:36.660 I mean, if you're up to the age of 50, then you can be called back into the military pretty

01:34:39.740 much if there's any sort of emergency at any time, and for good reason.

01:34:43.340 The place is a postage stamp, and it's surrounded on all sides by hundreds of millions of people

01:34:46.700 who want to wipe it off the map.

01:34:47.960 Thank God we don't have that situation in America.

01:34:50.420 I'd be a little bit—I'm always not eager to give more authority to government to place

01:34:54.960 us into institutions that we don't voluntarily go.

01:34:57.600 It usually doesn't go all that great.

01:34:58.780 Yeah, the revolution is beautiful because there wasn't conscription during the revolution.

01:35:02.800 It was the people who wanted a free country, who went out and got us a free country.

01:35:06.700 And I would also—then I really would reinforce what you just said.

01:35:09.640 The people who run coercive organizations are always coerced.

01:35:14.200 It's the coercers, people who want that, who are drawn to that.

01:35:17.540 And Drew, I would disagree a little bit with you about the nature of liberty.

01:35:20.800 I think it's very popular right now to speak against liberty.

01:35:25.740 You know, liberty isn't just being free.

01:35:27.240 No, it pretty much is.

01:35:28.600 American liberty is the cowboy.

01:35:31.380 American liberty is leave me alone to do what I want.

01:35:34.520 Leave me alone to pursue my own interests.

01:35:36.840 The fact that sometimes we see, obviously, as with anything in a fallen world, in an imperfect

01:35:43.260 world, liberty sometimes breeds bad attitudes.

01:35:46.380 Liberty sometimes breeds bad behaviors.

01:35:48.080 I think that we run a risk sometimes of pointing to those bad attitudes or bad behaviors and

01:35:53.760 saying, that's not what liberty—that's not liberty, but it is liberty.

01:35:56.640 That is just one aspect of liberty, the worst aspect, as opposed to the better aspect.

01:36:02.720 But the idea of stay off my yard, leave me alone, let me do what I want, let me pursue

01:36:06.340 what I want.

01:36:07.360 The frontier—the idea of I'm going to leave this behind and go to the frontier where I

01:36:11.340 can be free.

01:36:12.400 I mean, that is the animating idea behind the United States.

01:36:15.660 There is a difference, though, and one could have a debate about liberty for a long time,

01:36:20.240 but the kind of old idea of liberty that we had until very recently actually ties in with

01:36:25.080 education.

01:36:25.680 It ties in with the liberal arts.

01:36:26.900 The idea was that when you're born, you're not exactly free.

01:36:30.500 A little baby needs his mother, little children are slaves to their passions, and only through

01:36:34.840 learning how to tame your passions, tame your appetites, practice the virtues, do you acquire

01:36:39.880 freedom and you can have an exalted freedom.

01:36:42.860 Whereas there's this kind of new idea that liberty is the same as libertinism, that actually

01:36:47.600 when you go and just pursue your own appetites willy-nilly, then you're really free.

01:36:52.060 But actually what we find, like any drug addict, right, you can go and shoot up all the

01:36:55.480 drugs, but then you find out you're a slave to those drugs.

01:36:58.960 And this is an older idea of freedom.

01:37:01.160 And to Ben's point, you know, Ben, you said that government rules or policies cannot encourage

01:37:08.620 this kind of culture, but you certainly can see it discourage a common unity.

01:37:13.480 So just to give the instance of this libertinism during the sexual revolution, you had something

01:37:18.040 like no-fault divorce.

01:37:19.600 You had things like abortion on demand, which we all oppose.

01:37:22.020 You had things like the sexual revolution, which we would oppose.

01:37:24.920 That encouraged this isolation that has destroyed our common culture.

01:37:30.480 Presumably, if you reversed some of those decisions, if you made it a little bit more

01:37:34.780 difficult to get divorced, if you made it a little bit more difficult to just follow our

01:37:39.060 own passions, then you would be able to regain those sorts of issues.

01:37:42.860 You know, I know that we like to draw this big distinction between culture and politics,

01:37:46.820 and it's a worthy distinction, but it's a little bit blurrier than I think some of us want

01:37:51.400 to believe.

01:37:52.260 And I don't think any of us wants to pursue a liberty that is just doing whatever we want

01:37:56.960 all the time, even when it's very harmful to us.

01:37:59.460 Well, I mean, obviously nobody wants a liberty that is not restricted in any way.

01:38:02.540 I think that the big question, and this goes back to a debate that we've been having in

01:38:05.060 an ongoing fashion for the last several years at this point, is this sort of Adrian Vermeule

01:38:08.900 government as great educator and government as virtue inculcator?

01:38:14.680 And I'm very uncomfortable with that idea, because historically, government has been much

01:38:17.860 more of an oppressor than it has been a great inculcator of virtue.

01:38:21.340 The fact is that religious institutions typically have been that which filled the gap.

01:38:25.820 And I agree with you, the government can wreck all of that, but I think that if you give

01:38:28.760 government more power, it's more likely to wreck more of it.

01:38:30.780 Meaning that the big story of the 1950s and 1960s was not that government decided to reeducate

01:38:36.220 everybody in a particular direction, it's that government decided to undermine all of

01:38:39.300 the institutions that allowed the education toward virtue in the first place.

01:38:42.480 It was government undermining church, it was government undermining marriage, it was government

01:38:45.360 incentivizing bad behavior.

01:38:47.020 Government gained power during the 1960s, it didn't give up power during the 1960s to control

01:38:50.760 your behavior.

01:38:51.540 Government decided instead it was going to pay people to be single mothers.

01:38:53.960 If you're going to talk about the destruction of marriage in America, I think you'd be much

01:38:59.060 better off focusing, I mean, listen, I think no fault divorce is idiotic, but with that

01:39:03.080 said, I think that no fault divorce is less of a problem in American life than the government

01:39:07.400 actively incentivizing women to give birth to children out of wedlock, just as a matter

01:39:12.200 of statistics.

01:39:13.040 I just think it cuts a little bit both ways because you're absolutely right in a certain

01:39:16.660 sense, in a huge sense, the government gained a lot of power in the 60s, but you also got

01:39:21.400 this idea that what happens in a person's bedroom is no business of the government.

01:39:25.460 When that was not true in the United States for a long time, I mean, just to use one debate

01:39:29.880 that keeps coming up on this topic, which is porn, you know, we've had laws against pornography

01:39:34.320 in this country from the very, very beginning.

01:39:36.660 We still have laws against pornography in this country, even if they are not enforced, but

01:39:40.320 some were enforced relatively recently during the Bush administration.

01:39:43.560 That would be an instance where the government is actually, in a certain sense, ceding power,

01:39:48.640 saying we have nothing to say about this issue.

01:39:50.880 And by ceding that power, it gave people a kind of libertinism that I think has made our

01:39:55.920 liberty situation a little bit worse.

01:39:57.340 I just think that the whole idea that there is a relationship between the liberal arts

01:40:01.580 and liberty, of course, that we were trying to instill in people the virtues that made

01:40:05.760 for liberty.

01:40:07.660 But I think the idea that it was all people, educated people with liberal arts educations

01:40:13.600 who were the real bulwark for liberty in this country is just not true.

01:40:19.000 I think that we always talk about this question in the context of the 50s and the 60s, and that's

01:40:24.120 20 years of the 200-plus-year history of the country.

01:40:27.620 The vast majority of the time that people in this country were free, no one could know

01:40:32.160 what was going on in your bedroom because it was a frontier nation.

01:40:34.920 These people were out away from government, and they were having, therefore, to rely on

01:40:39.920 things like small community.

01:40:41.560 They were having to rely on their neighbor, even though their neighbor might be miles away

01:40:45.920 from them.

01:40:46.520 They were having to rely on their religion and their faith.

01:40:50.300 And they weren't relying on things like education or forced service.

01:40:53.540 There was no education, and there was nowhere to serve.

01:40:56.660 You were a free person, not being shaped by government.

01:41:04.220 And instead, you had to, therefore, be shaped by reality, by nature.

01:41:07.980 You had to be shaped by more local institutions.

01:41:13.580 I have to take issue with some of this.

01:41:15.540 You and I, Jeremy, have a lot of sympathy on this issue of liberty being left alone.

01:41:21.600 I mean, I think that you're absolutely right about this.

01:41:24.080 But liberty has always been generated by ideas, and it really was ideas that filter into the

01:41:31.260 common, that become common property, even of people who don't have the education.

01:41:35.420 It's those ideas that really have made people free.

01:41:38.400 And key to one of those ideas has been the idea of the interior life of an individual as

01:41:44.440 being an end of itself.

01:41:45.460 The fact that you are you and I'm me and that we experience a life, that that is something

01:41:50.420 that doesn't need any explanation, doesn't need any defense.

01:41:53.620 And I think in order to have that idea in operation, we do have to have a sense of respect

01:41:59.000 for one another.

01:41:59.760 I mean, you just, you cannot have liberty for me and not for thee.

01:42:03.300 And that's one of the reasons that, for instance, these rights that people suddenly have, the right

01:42:08.900 to of gay marriage, where you can then go and sue somebody if he doesn't accept your vision

01:42:15.440 of life, if he doesn't accept your behavior as good, you can then sue him.

01:42:19.440 That that is damaging to liberty that actually is not extending.

01:42:23.320 But that's a good point.

01:42:24.280 That's a product of government.

01:42:26.360 No, no, wait.

01:42:27.460 These are two separate conversations, though, that we're having.

01:42:30.000 They kind of got melded together.

01:42:31.460 The threat of government, which Ben is talking about, obviously, obviously always a problem.

01:42:35.980 And it is definitely a drawback to any idea of common service.

01:42:40.200 And I completely accept that.

01:42:41.880 I'm not sure whether it can be gotten around, but I think that's true.

01:42:44.680 But it's but it is not the same thing as the way we behave and where those ideas are going

01:42:50.660 to come from.

01:42:51.860 We're in a very, very damaging and dangerous situation where we have lost our religion to

01:42:58.500 some degree.

01:42:59.020 We've certainly lost any kind of binding sense of religion.

01:43:02.620 Government cannot replace that government.

01:43:04.820 We have a constitution that was built for religious people.

01:43:07.600 And that is something we're really going to have to address.

01:43:09.920 And I think that the thing that Knowles is talking about, which is now this bubbling debate

01:43:15.520 on the left of how are we going to reinstill these these common ideas of good without doing

01:43:21.680 it through the iron fist of government?

01:43:23.900 This is a difficult debate, but we better be having it because we cannot survive as a free

01:43:27.900 nation without an idea of virtue, without a common sense that there's something bigger

01:43:31.860 than each of us.

01:43:32.800 And I think I think it's a very, very difficult thing.

01:43:35.640 Libertarianism is not going to do it.

01:43:37.460 But obviously, neither is theocracy.

01:43:39.480 Somewhere between those two ideas, there's got to be some way of restoring some sense of

01:43:44.220 unity because we are really a daggers drawn and we can't continue that way for very long.

01:43:50.020 Yeah, I guess I'm just curious.

01:43:51.280 I don't disagree that we're a nation that's lost its religion.

01:43:55.240 I don't disagree that our constitution is for a religious people, that our way of government

01:43:59.380 is for a religious people.

01:44:00.980 I guess what I'm not sure about is what is the alternative that's being proposed?

01:44:05.460 Well, I can give you a little bit of the alternative because there's there's one vision

01:44:09.240 of America, which is that it's only the Wild West and it's John Wayne in a saloon with a pistol.

01:44:14.140 But that isn't only America.

01:44:15.680 It's not even the oldest version of America.

01:44:17.540 America begins really in New England and on the East Coast.

01:44:21.280 And those are decidedly less Wild West places.

01:44:24.180 And part of Western expansion was expanding across the country and spreading out a little

01:44:29.480 bit.

01:44:30.300 In those New England towns and cities in particular, there was intense social cohesion.

01:44:38.860 There was a real authentic politics where people thought they could make their own political

01:44:43.620 decisions that, you know, we didn't simply have to pursue our own individual ends ad infinitum

01:44:50.300 without any sense of having a common purpose.

01:44:52.660 But I think the key here is the localism of it.

01:44:55.500 You could call it localism or federalism or subsidiarity.

01:44:58.080 The idea that these kinds of decisions are absolutely within the scope of politics and

01:45:02.860 they should be.

01:45:04.360 But when you make those decisions at the national level or the federal level or even worse, the

01:45:09.560 international level, that those decisions are going to be heavy handed.

01:45:12.580 They could become tyrannical, that it's good for us to have a politics and a sense of common

01:45:17.000 virtue, but it's probably safer for us to make those decisions more locally.

01:45:21.100 That's very much in the American tradition.

01:45:23.540 On that note, and on that note, can I just chime in since we went after Trump for going

01:45:27.820 after Joe Scarborough?

01:45:28.900 I have to wave the Trump flag here for just a minute.

01:45:31.600 This thing that he brought out, I've loved during this Chinese flu epidemic that he has remained

01:45:38.540 a federalist, whether he knows what that word means or not.

01:45:40.840 He has just said, let the states do what they're going to do.

01:45:44.020 And it has revealed where the states are badly run and where they're well run.

01:45:47.740 But when he did that thing where he dialed back regulations and contained in that executive

01:45:52.280 order is a bill of rights of regulations, which I think should become constitutional since

01:45:57.440 we're being governed by all these regulatory agencies instead of by Congress.

01:46:00.720 I think that that that is a brilliant thing that he's done.

01:46:04.300 I cannot remember in my lifetime anyone ever meeting a crisis by dialing back the power

01:46:09.680 of government.

01:46:10.420 Uh, that is, that's insane.

01:46:11.900 And I just think it's something that we can celebrate in the midst of, you know, the mourning

01:46:15.580 of the people who have died and, uh, the complete difficulty of our, uh, of our economic situation.

01:46:21.660 Uh, only Trump would have done this.

01:46:23.680 I mean, with all the stuff that he does, it's crazy.

01:46:26.700 He then does these wonderful golden things that I just think we have to pause for a minute

01:46:30.880 and recognize because it is something that conservatives, it's a holy grail that conservatives

01:46:36.200 have gone after of don't let the crisis be used to oppress us.

01:46:40.960 And Trump has actually done that.

01:46:42.940 Alicia, we have time for a few more questions.

01:46:44.840 Oh, thank God.

01:46:46.260 And I got to say my answer to the draft question, pull this in case I ever run for office.

01:46:50.240 The only draft that I am interested in is the beer one.

01:46:53.800 So moving on, we're also never going to force you to become a daily wire subscriber, but we

01:46:58.760 will compel you with fabulous deals that involve not one, but two tumblers.

01:47:03.020 So be sure to go on over to the dailywire.com right now to become an all access member.

01:47:07.420 And if you're not an all access member, it's very easy to do.

01:47:10.000 Go to dailywire.com slash subscribe to get your two tumblers on top of 15% off using

01:47:16.680 DW access code.

01:47:18.880 So that's DW access.

01:47:20.300 After you go to dailywire.com slash subscribe, that's for 15% off and two tumblers.

01:47:25.340 I would highly suggest it because then you get to not only hear the guys blabber for two

01:47:28.460 hours on backstage, but you can also chat with them and hear them blabber some more via their

01:47:32.820 keyboards right after this, when we have a discussion that's available only for all access members.

01:47:38.040 Don't worry.

01:47:38.500 I will be there too.

01:47:39.240 It's going to be blabbering too.

01:47:40.660 Don't, yeah, don't tell us.

01:47:42.980 It's not too horrible.

01:47:43.800 Strong pitch there from Alicia.

01:47:46.840 We know that men are from Mars, women are from Venus, but how many of you would actually

01:47:51.140 pay to go to space?

01:47:52.260 You touched on this a little bit.

01:47:53.500 Like, would you pay to go to space?

01:47:54.920 Would you, would the Shapiro family instead of, I don't know, going to Hawaii, end up going

01:47:58.460 to Mars?

01:48:01.780 Well, as you can tell, we're pretty risk averse here in the Shapiro household.

01:48:05.580 So it depends on the safety level acquired.

01:48:07.900 At current, in current modulation, where you are strapped to the front of a bar, I'm going

01:48:13.720 to go no on that.

01:48:14.940 But if we got to the point where you could actually fly into low orbit, then absolutely.

01:48:19.720 That's like one of the coolest things ever.

01:48:21.000 And I'm hoping that's something that we will actually achieve during my lifetime.

01:48:23.420 I know that Virgin was talking about doing something like that.

01:48:26.060 And you could pay, what was it?

01:48:27.300 It was like 50.

01:48:27.940 It was something that was extraordinarily expensive, but not so crazy that if you got extraordinary

01:48:32.340 money, you wouldn't think about it.

01:48:33.280 It was like 50 grand to fly into space, to fly into low-level space.

01:48:36.940 And I thought, that's kind of badass, right?

01:48:38.900 I mean, like, you actually take a picture of yourself in space.

01:48:41.840 That seems like that would be worth it, I feel like.

01:48:44.380 Yeah.

01:48:45.140 I'd do it if I had the kind of money that it would take.

01:48:47.160 Ben's right.

01:48:47.740 In the lifetimes of the people here, this will never be possible to go to space safely.

01:48:53.760 It's a dangerous thing.

01:48:54.840 It requires people who are willing to take a risk and strap themselves, as Ben says,

01:48:59.040 to an exploding bomb.

01:49:00.940 I think, though, that if I had the money and I didn't have young children at home at the

01:49:04.960 time, I would seriously consider it.

01:49:06.980 I just can't imagine, at this moment, what else is there for a man to account?

01:49:13.040 Like, what other experience is available to us as mortals on this rock that is greater

01:49:19.940 than to go up into orbit, experience weightlessness, look down at the blue marble?

01:49:25.200 I think it would be hard to pass up.

01:49:26.780 I think I would be deathly afraid.

01:49:29.060 By the way, I think it's a fairly miserable experience.

01:49:31.540 Space is not for the faint of heart.

01:49:34.400 Your muscles start to atrophy immediately.

01:49:36.720 You get terrible motion sickness.

01:49:38.180 You have headaches and muscle cramps and all kinds of digestive issues the whole time you're

01:49:42.400 up there, because it turns out the body was made for gravity and not for weightlessness.

01:49:46.520 But I just think, man, yeah, the experience of that would be very difficult to pass up.

01:49:51.200 Honestly, I get all those symptoms every time I hang out in a room with Noles.

01:49:54.420 I get all of those symptoms every time I hang out in a room with Noles.

01:49:56.680 I may as well get the space as well.

01:49:58.720 Ben's going to strap me to a rocket ship, and then we're going to go straight up.

01:50:01.520 You know, I don't want to go somewhere.

01:50:04.500 You know, Alicia, you mentioned about going to Mars.

01:50:06.920 I don't want to go to Mars.

01:50:07.900 Mars looks terrible.

01:50:08.920 I have no interest in that.

01:50:10.220 Earth is really nice.

01:50:11.620 It's like the one nice place in the whole universe, so I want to stay on Earth.

01:50:14.880 That we know of.

01:50:16.100 That we know of.

01:50:16.420 I mean.

01:50:16.840 Yeah, look, if I were a gambling man, I'd put my money on Earth.

01:50:20.140 But I would love to, as you gentlemen say, I would love to go up into orbit.

01:50:26.040 I would love to be up there for three to five hours.

01:50:28.400 I think that would be great.

01:50:29.540 I would do it tomorrow.

01:50:30.980 Ben, I know you haven't paid me in years, but I know you say the check is in the mail.

01:50:34.400 Whenever the check arrives, I'm giving it to Elon.

01:50:37.020 I want to go up and do that, but I want to come home to Earth right afterwards.

01:50:41.240 Hey, man.

01:50:41.600 I have to say, I love flying.

01:50:42.860 How much would it cost to actually pay Elon Musk to get him to send Knowles to space?

01:50:47.220 Like, is this on the table?

01:50:49.020 Because I will say that you are an absolute money suck.

01:50:51.460 I feel like a one-time payment to Elon Musk to murder you by sending you to space might

01:50:54.840 absolutely be worth it.

01:50:58.420 I have to say, I love flying.

01:51:01.720 I have flown planes.

01:51:02.980 I had a pilot's license.

01:51:04.180 I've paraglided.

01:51:05.520 I've done all this stuff.

01:51:06.840 I just love being in the air.

01:51:08.120 The two things that I would do is I'd go into low orbit for a couple hours and I would

01:51:12.520 go to a planet or the moon someplace, a destination.

01:51:15.700 The one thing I would not be interested in is going to that space station, which just looks

01:51:19.480 unpleasant and boring and not that exciting.

01:51:22.240 So, I mean, once you're in orbit, you've kind of seen everything.

01:51:25.540 You're as close to the, you know, you're no closer to the stars than you are here.

01:51:28.660 You know, it's just the perspective that you get on the Earth that would be so spectacular.

01:51:32.440 But I would definitely love to walk on the moon or see Mars or something like that.

01:51:37.340 I mean, I just think that that would be an experience worth having.

01:51:41.580 And I definitely would do it.

01:51:43.300 I definitely would take the vomiting sickness for the experience.

01:51:49.960 But the idea of going to, every time I see people in that space station, I think, eh,

01:51:53.360 that's too much like being in a tin can for me.

01:51:55.840 Well, you have to be in that space station for like 150 days at a time, which is also

01:51:59.840 why I wouldn't go to Mars because it takes months and months to get to Mars.

01:52:02.880 What Ben is talking about is suborbital, which is where you go up, you experience weightlessness,

01:52:06.960 you see the curvature of the Earth.

01:52:08.660 But this is like a 90-second experience, right?

01:52:11.620 What you guys are talking about, actual low-Earth orbit is, you know, it's basically the range

01:52:16.900 of where the space station is.

01:52:18.680 You're 250 miles above the Earth.

01:52:21.460 You make a couple laps.

01:52:22.900 You come back down.

01:52:23.940 The moon, I think, is as far as I would ever go.

01:52:25.860 Drew, I'm with you.

01:52:26.900 You know, even the moon, you're dealing now with probably a week-long trip.

01:52:30.080 But, yeah, to step foot on a celestial body and you don't have to be in space for like

01:52:37.900 20 months to pull it off, it'd be hard to say no.

01:52:40.220 It'd be cool.

01:52:41.120 Hard to say no.

01:52:42.740 Alicia?

01:52:43.640 I think whoever comes up with the marketing, which probably will be Elon Musk or one of

01:52:46.900 his oddly named children in the next couple of generations that comes up with a space spa

01:52:50.620 is going to make it really big.

01:52:52.280 All right.

01:52:52.900 The last question of the night is actually an interesting one, especially as we're heading

01:52:56.560 into summer, which typically has lots of outside and public recreation.

01:53:00.380 I'm a huge fan of going to the Hollywood Bowl.

01:53:02.360 Do you guys see large outdoor events like sports or outdoor concerts at Red Rocks, etc.,

01:53:07.260 coming back anytime soon?

01:53:08.740 And would each of you be comfortable participating?

01:53:11.060 I would 100% be comfortable participating.

01:53:13.420 I'm furious because the L.A. Phil canceled their season.

01:53:16.840 And the L.A. Phil, I don't like to go necessarily because I know anything about classical music,

01:53:21.740 which I don't.

01:53:22.640 I like to go because it is the cheapest, best entertainment in L.A.

01:53:27.260 You bring a bottle of wine.

01:53:28.720 You listen to great musicians.

01:53:29.980 It's outdoors.

01:53:30.580 It's the summer.

01:53:31.280 It's so wonderful.

01:53:32.100 They've already canceled it because L.A. has been totally hysterical on this lockdown.

01:53:37.200 Other states, though, have not been hysterical.

01:53:39.340 And I would not be surprised if while California, New York and other places remain closed for

01:53:44.760 better or worse for the near future, I could see other states where politics are a little

01:53:49.280 more normal reopening.

01:53:50.560 And maybe I'll have to hop a flight and go check out a concert.

01:53:53.120 I completely agree, particularly the Hollywood Bowl or baseball outdoor events in warm climates

01:53:58.740 in the middle of summer.

01:53:59.920 There's no reason that these events shouldn't be taking place.

01:54:02.680 You're not going to get the Rona sitting at Dodger Stadium in the 96-degree heat watching

01:54:08.320 what was promising to be the best season of Dodgers baseball probably in the last 50 years.

01:54:14.200 I mean, I think that the whole—I thought at first that the coronavirus, because it's

01:54:19.280 the royal disease, right, the corona, the crown, I thought that it was actually just

01:54:23.740 God's way of keeping Prince Charles from ever becoming king of England.

01:54:27.860 But then Charles survived it, and I realized there is no God.

01:54:31.100 And since there is no God, I now believe that it was just a conspiracy to keep the Dodgers

01:54:35.200 from actually winning the World Series this year.

01:54:37.820 And I think that that's a real tragedy.

01:54:40.520 That's good logic.

01:54:41.320 Should we just clarify for Media Matters that that was a joke about Prince Charles dying?

01:54:44.860 No, we shouldn't.

01:54:45.640 We absolutely should not.

01:54:48.820 Are they going to support him on here?

01:54:50.740 That's a good point.

01:54:51.920 You know, my feelings about these public events are a little bit—are slightly different,

01:54:56.460 not because—so first of all, here's the reality.

01:54:58.880 Young people will end up going back to rock concerts and rap concerts, and all that stuff

01:55:03.700 will happen within the next four months, right?

01:55:05.560 Because we're already starting to see that.

01:55:07.080 I mean, the Lake of the Ozarks tape is going to be the reality for a bunch of people who

01:55:10.140 are 25 and under, because their risk is zero.

01:55:12.560 I mean, effectively speaking, statistically speaking, it is very, very close to zero.

01:55:15.920 If you're under the age of 25, you ain't dying from this thing unless you have some very

01:55:19.140 serious underlying conditions.

01:55:20.600 So it would not surprise me at all to see people go to concerts that are specifically

01:55:24.620 aimed at younger audiences.

01:55:26.840 The L.A. Phil, it's going to be a while because the audience is Michael Moles and a bunch of

01:55:30.280 people who are 60-plus, so it's going to be a while until those people want to hang

01:55:34.640 out in coordination with each other.

01:55:37.240 As far as baseball stadiums, I think that it'll probably be early next year.

01:55:41.340 Bottom line is, once they—I think once we hit early next year and they either have

01:55:45.680 or have not developed the vaccine, people are going to be like, okay, well, whatever

01:55:48.300 it is it is, and that includes older people.

01:55:49.860 They're going to be like, okay, this is just a new risk of life.

01:55:51.760 I'm either willing to do it or I'm not willing to do it.

01:55:53.500 I think that you could see some baseball games come back even in the fall based on the possibility

01:56:00.620 of blocking off particular numbers of seats and then spacing out how people enter stadiums.

01:56:05.420 There's some creative ways to go about doing this sort of stuff.

01:56:07.720 I don't see any reason at all, by the way, why college sports shouldn't continue.

01:56:11.060 College sports is a bunch of college students who are 20 years old.

01:56:13.740 They're living in dorms with each other and having sex with each other anyway.

01:56:16.380 I feel like they are more socially distant at a football game than they are in the rest of

01:56:19.700 their lives, so it seems to me less risky for them to be outside a foot and a half from

01:56:24.300 each other than inside and zero space between each other.

01:56:27.220 But, you know, that's—movie theaters are going to be big ones, right?

01:56:31.140 Movie theaters are going to be shot for a while.

01:56:33.620 Small spaces, lots of older people, not a lot of good air circulation, and classical music

01:56:39.440 concerts, unfortunately, are going to go away for a while.

01:56:41.000 But they should open the Hollywood Bowl and they should just restrict the number of people

01:56:43.300 who can come in because it wasn't like they were making bank off the thing anyway.

01:56:46.420 Correct.

01:56:46.580 You know, I called my doctor to ask if I was particularly vulnerable, and he was shocked

01:56:51.960 to find out I was still alive.

01:56:53.860 And I was a little concerned about it.

01:56:58.860 But I've got to be honest with you.

01:57:00.200 I've reached a point now where I'm starting to think like, you know, I don't necessarily

01:57:04.300 want to be in an airplane.

01:57:05.800 I would like—if I go to a restaurant, I would like them to be a little bit cautious, a little

01:57:09.480 bit, you know, a little bit of social distancing.

01:57:11.260 But I agree with Jeremy on this.

01:57:12.780 Going to a baseball game in an open stadium, certainly going to a college game where the

01:57:17.040 kids aren't in any danger whatsoever, those are things that I'm getting ready to do.

01:57:21.120 I mean, I'm not all that worried about it.

01:57:23.840 I think that, you know, when you really do look at the statistics, this has killed off

01:57:29.200 people, even if it's possible to imagine older than I am.

01:57:33.260 And I think that, you know, I don't know.

01:57:36.240 I just think you have to live.

01:57:37.360 You really have to live.

01:57:38.400 There's no—there is no point.

01:57:39.980 There's no point in not being dead if you're not living, you know.

01:57:43.720 And so I think that—I think, yeah, I think people are just going to come back.

01:57:47.720 I don't think they can stop it.

01:57:49.280 I think the guys who are trying to keep their state shut down are going to end up looking

01:57:53.020 very bad.

01:57:54.140 It's a very bad look for a leader to say, follow me and turn around, have no one behind

01:57:57.900 him.

01:57:58.340 I think people are ready to go back.

01:57:59.760 And it's time.

01:58:00.420 Let me say this to close the show.

01:58:03.060 I mentioned that I went on a road trip this weekend.

01:58:06.840 I was actually at the Grand Canyon at the same time as young Spencer Clavin.

01:58:10.900 And no, we didn't see each other there because I think he was on a date and I was just with

01:58:15.100 my wife.

01:58:15.820 Totally different.

01:58:16.900 Totally different.

01:58:17.560 Like, I was willing to see anybody.

01:58:18.560 He was actually hiking, I think.

01:58:21.300 But my trip was not just to Arizona.

01:58:23.600 I went all the way to the ancestral homeland of West Texas.

01:58:26.300 And while I was there, my grandfather, who's in his mid-80s, has pretty late-stage Parkinson's

01:58:34.900 and diabetes.

01:58:37.880 He's a really heroic figure in our family, a true patriarch.

01:58:42.180 He founded, has an eighth-grade education, worked for the man for very low wages doing

01:58:48.280 brutal blue-collar work most of his life.

01:58:50.660 Then in his 40s, decided to go on his own and start a business and created a very successful

01:58:55.680 business.

01:58:57.360 He's a spiritual guy.

01:58:58.540 He's a really inspirational figure, as I say, in our family.

01:59:03.160 Nevertheless, his health is terrible.

01:59:06.060 And if you've ever seen someone go through Parkinson's, it's just a tragedy.

01:59:09.320 It just takes your body away from you.

01:59:12.720 And so the first day that we're there, my papa, as I call him, called me and said, you

01:59:18.500 want to go golfing?

01:59:20.000 And so I thought, I said, Parkinson's makes your body go.

01:59:22.420 But I didn't know it made your mind go.

01:59:24.900 I am the least athletic human that has probably ever walked the earth.

01:59:29.480 I'm blind in one eye.

01:59:30.800 You know, like, I'm terrible.

01:59:32.620 But, you know, he wanted me to go golfing with him.

01:59:34.700 I'm not going to say no to my papa while I'm there.

01:59:36.360 So I went out to the golf course.

01:59:37.860 It was 102 degrees.

01:59:39.340 It was miserable.

01:59:40.880 And the thing about golf is it's hard.

01:59:45.580 So it was just humiliating.

01:59:48.280 You know, I think the reason my papa wanted to be there is because he's like, you feel

01:59:51.660 sorry for me.

01:59:53.820 Wait till we get you on a golf course.

01:59:56.440 And we got out there and I thought, this is amazing.

01:59:58.280 You know, here I am.

01:59:59.240 If anyone in L.A. witnessed this, they'd say that I was murdering my grandfather.

02:00:03.980 And keep in mind, we're outside and it's 100 degrees.

02:00:06.180 But nevertheless, he is at high risk.

02:00:08.040 He's in his mid 80s.

02:00:08.900 He has a very advanced version of diseases that I'm not speaking ill of my grandfather.

02:00:15.060 He will die from these.

02:00:16.320 He will not win his battle with Parkinson's disease and diabetes.

02:00:20.880 And it could be that we have him with us for five more years.

02:00:23.480 It could be that we have him with us for five more months.

02:00:25.640 It could be that we step off of this stage and they hand me my cell phone and there's bad news.

02:00:29.720 None of those three outcomes would be surprising.

02:00:35.360 And then I realized, oh, my papa isn't ignorant to the risk that's taking place.

02:00:41.460 He's been watching TV every day for the last two months like everyone else.

02:00:45.040 He's an intelligent man who built the business and employed people and raised children.

02:00:49.000 He just sees the world different.

02:00:51.000 And I actually think his perspective is better.

02:00:53.300 He's not godless.

02:00:55.160 He doesn't live his life in fear.

02:00:57.180 He's not reckless.

02:00:58.600 But he also realizes he's only got so many more chances to spend time with his grandson.

02:01:03.120 And he's only got so many more golf games ahead of him one way or the other.

02:01:07.000 And I think I didn't ask him.

02:01:09.540 I think that if I were to ask him, and I think his actions demonstrated, he would rather spend

02:01:13.620 time with his grandson and get in a few more golf games and live for a shorter end of what

02:01:18.780 life is potentially left to him than be locked up in his house, not play golf again, not see

02:01:24.100 his grandchildren and eke out six or eight or 12 or 24 extra months.

02:01:29.460 And it's yet another one of the of the important, meaningful lessons that I think that I've learned

02:01:35.360 from my papa.

02:01:36.800 And Drew, you said it well.

02:01:37.720 The purpose of life is to live doesn't mean to be reckless, doesn't mean to treat life

02:01:44.060 as though it's a frivolous thing.

02:01:45.520 But I do think particularly as people of faith, that we are to hang on to our lives with somewhat

02:01:50.560 lightly.

02:01:51.460 We're not to we're not to hold on to our lives as though the length of life is the ultimate

02:01:56.440 victory.

02:01:57.420 And so I'm hopeful that in particular, as it warms up around the country, we all start

02:02:02.620 to take a little bit more of that attitude.

02:02:04.660 Thank you, everybody, for hanging out with us.

02:02:06.020 You enjoyed this broadcast.

02:02:07.720 Remember, join Daily Wire as an All Access member today and you will get two, not one,

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02:02:15.380 Current All Access members, join us right now over at dailywire.com for an exclusive online

02:02:20.860 discussion.

02:02:21.660 Ben will be there.

02:02:22.360 Drew will be there.

02:02:23.160 Michael will be there.

02:02:24.060 I'll be there.

02:02:25.300 And yes, she's lovely.

02:02:26.560 Alicia will be there too.

02:02:27.780 Thank you guys for hanging out with us.

02:02:29.540 And we'll see you next time.

02:02:30.240 Daily Wire Backstage is produced by Robert Sterling and directed by Mike Joyner.

02:02:42.000 Executive producer is me, Jeremy Boren.

02:02:44.400 Our supervising producer is Mathis Glover.

02:02:46.660 Our assistant director is Pavel Wadowski and our technical producer, Austin Stevens.

02:02:50.780 Our segment producer is Katie Swinerton.

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02:02:54.020 Audio is mixed by Mike Coromina and our audio assistant is Robin Fenderson.

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The Michael Knowles Show - May 28, 2020

Daily Wire Backstage： Memorial Day Edition

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