Trump secures the release of 3 American hostages from North Korea. Porn star Stormy Daniels sues the president s lawyer for defamation, accusing him of calling her a liar. We'll also bring you my full 60-minute conversation with her.
00:00:58.560One day after Donald Trump burnt down Barack Obama's entire legacy, he has now gone over to that legacy's grave and relieved himself on the ashes.
00:01:09.100So we recall now, we recall Otto Warmbier, this poor American student who was taken hostage by the North Korean regime during the Obama administration.
00:01:18.260The Obama administration couldn't get him out.
00:01:19.760President Trump, we know now, has secured the release of three American hostages who had been held in North Korea.
00:01:27.020Do you remember when Donald Trump, he would send those angry tweets to North Korea?
00:01:31.440He called Little Rocket Man short and fat.
00:01:34.460Because Little Rocket Man, Kim Jong-un, said that Donald Trump is old and crazy.
00:01:39.800And an American president would have responded and say, well, that's not very nice.
00:02:52.940So I want to see the clip of North Korea coverage because we've seen, you know, we've gotten a lot of Stormy Daniels coverage.
00:02:58.240So let's just see the mainstream media reporting on this great North Korean diplomatic feat.
00:03:02.460Porn star Stormy Daniels sues the president's lawyer for defamation, accusing Michael Cohen of calling her a liar.
00:03:09.400As Daniels goes public about her alleged affair with Donald Trump and says she was threatened, the White House says the president still denies an affair and rejects her claims.
00:12:30.080This is a major difference between the right and the left.
00:12:32.320The right likes the thing itself, securing a denuclearized North Korea at the biggest end of it, or at least bringing an end to the Korean War, bringing American hostages back home.
00:13:44.280Tyler is an author, musician, and record producer.
00:13:46.960He is the author of When Donkeys Talk, A Quest to Rediscover the Mystery and Wonder of Christianity.
00:13:53.620And most recently is the author of an excellent book that I highly recommend, An Immovable Feast, How I Gave Up Spirituality for a Life of Religious Abundance.
00:14:39.360You know, if we knew you were using government facilities, we would have given you even a bigger buffer of time to go use the private stuff instead.
00:15:17.900I think my experience of, even with myself, of identifying as being spiritual but not religious, was that I wanted authentic relationship with God.
00:15:27.620And for a lot of folks, that means just with the divinity or the good or the force that might be with you or not.
00:15:38.620Even though that is truly heresy because that is a creation rather than the creator.
00:15:44.860But I think they're getting at the same thing.
00:15:46.460The energy, the divinity, the God spirit.
00:15:49.360Yeah, now, of course, as a Christian, being spiritual but not religious, I always thought that for me meant being authentic.
00:15:57.080A truly deep personal relationship with God that didn't involve any obligations or rules or morals that might impose themselves on me and direct my life, right?
00:16:08.020So, for me, being spiritual but not religious was about this personal relationship that allowed me a wide breadth of beliefs and practices, even if they contradicted each other.
00:16:20.620I, having been raised a Catholic, although I went away from that for a long time, I did always enjoy St. Augustine's entreaty to, Lord, make me chaste but not yet, which is a version of that.
00:16:35.100And as a kid, as you write in the book, you spurned the ritual, religious ritual.
00:16:39.540It was all about faith not works, that dichotomy that we hear so much in popular religion.
00:16:46.200You were a thoroughgoing antinomian, it seems.
00:16:49.540Jesus saves, your free will has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
00:16:53.620And when I look around, though, at this idea of the performance, the performance of ritual, it seems to me spirituality is at least as performed or enacted as religion and usually more so.
00:17:06.240So, what is it that convinced you that this popular theology was wrong?
00:17:10.260You know, what I found out just through trial and error, it's kind of funny, when an immovable feast finally arrived, you know, bound and looking beautiful, I was like, oh, Brittany, to my wife, I was like, are you going to read it?
00:17:22.800And she's like, oh, no, I'm not going to read it.
00:17:25.440And I was like, no way, because I kind of like the pigs out, I kind of tell too many stories.
00:17:30.420And they're really like, through trial and error, through a lot of hard-won lessons, I learned that spirituality, being spiritual but not religious, almost always ends in disappointment, if not loneliness.
00:17:41.300I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said that if we won't obey the Ten Commandments, we'll obey the Ten Thousand Commandments, right?
00:17:47.780Where if we don't have the real thing, we'll end up making 10,000 replicas.
00:17:51.800And being spiritual but not religious, I totally did that.
00:17:54.380I would invent, I'd be very religious about things that weren't religious, whether it was my diet, eating organic eggs, or drinking wheatgrass, or yoga, or just kind of being dogmatic about being spiritual but not religious.
00:18:08.720You write one of my favorite sentences in the book is, the Catholics are content with a single pope and that he is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
00:18:17.780But I gladly accepted popes by the dozen, and they were infallible when they stood in the pulpit or in their Birkenstock sandals.
00:18:25.460So you get this sense, and from the quote that you say too, that everybody's got to serve somebody, that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
00:18:34.980Is there any way, as you see it, to escape the strict boundaries imposed by some religion?
00:18:42.160You know, I actually, I think it's deep, deep in our nature, just as human beings, as men and women, to end up becoming religious.
00:18:51.780We need to live a life that has patterns, that has structures that make sense to us.
00:18:57.720And all of us are telling stories to make sense of the world.
00:19:03.700Whatever story you're telling yourself, whatever patterns and rituals you're creating around your daily rhythms and your relationships, that is your religion.
00:19:12.720Whether you admit it or not, you are choosing to conform to something that is hopefully bigger than yourself to some degree,
00:19:21.320whether it's politics or, you know, some kind of environmental issue or social justice issue.
00:19:41.260As you quote Russell Kirk, making an observation that we talk about on this show all the time, that there's no culture without the cult.
00:19:49.120Cult and culture come from the same word.
00:19:51.520And the spiritual but not religious types, they spurn cults and religious organization.
00:19:56.680Does this explain why the spiritual but not religious types are usually such cultural Philistines that they don't, they have a sort of narrow culture?
00:20:08.820I have very good memories of being in college, but also memories that I've been able to reflect on of where with so many of us, you know, so many of us were Christians.
00:20:17.220We had so much in common or should have.
00:20:19.960We should have been able to worship together on Sunday morning.
00:20:43.140I wish that there was a way we could, and I'm working towards this, right, with the book, An Immovable Feast, how can we recover a sense of culture that's truly rooted in a cult that makes sense, that's rich and beautiful and true?
00:21:04.900If most of us are being honest, it's the popular culture.
00:21:08.000Whenever you get three Christians in a room of perhaps some different denominations or sects or whatever, they'll disagree about everything.
00:21:18.320But we can all agree on going out and getting a drink or something like that.
00:21:23.180And the Catholics especially can agree on going out and getting a drink.
00:21:25.880Now, you have been a Protestant evangelical fundamentalist, it seems, just from perusing the book, Catholic now.
00:21:33.640Now, I find that all of, I have a lot of friends who are Protestants, and they're still Protestants, but they say they're not Protestants or evangelical or whatever.
00:21:43.740I find all of the non-Catholics or non-Eastern Orthodox, and in some cases the Anglicans fall into that Anglo-Catholic sphere too.
00:21:52.960But all of the fundamentalist types are frequently quite hostile to the saints and to the Virgin Mary.
00:21:59.580They're not simply indifferent to them, they're outwardly hostile.
00:22:03.920They say, why would you ever pray to a saint, or why would you ever venerate the Virgin Mary?
00:22:08.280Why is that? Where does that hostility come from?
00:22:11.000Well, having once been quite hostile myself, I think it comes from a frustration that people keep bringing into what should be a private relationship between you and Jesus,
00:22:21.500an actual community, a community that seems to almost threaten the purity of being spiritual but not religious.
00:22:30.400So, for example, a big epiphany for me in just discovering, you know, the Blessed Virgin Mary and the communion of saints
00:22:37.540was realizing, you know, when Jesus talks about the first and second commandments,
00:22:41.760you know, love the Lord your God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself,
00:22:44.960these two commandments aren't in competition, right?
00:22:48.540Even in heaven, the second commandment will be like unto the first,
00:22:52.360where even in heaven we will love the saints and intercede for the saints on earth just as we love Christ, right?
00:22:59.120In heaven the saints do what Jesus is doing, which is loving God and loving neighbor.
00:23:04.380And we see evidence of this, especially in Revelation.
00:23:06.760Now, good luck to anybody who can tell me precisely what Revelation means,
00:23:10.660but we see the saints holding the prayers, worshiping God and holding prayers.
00:23:51.840So I want to bring in some terrible news.
00:23:53.960And you can try to convince me that this is not true.
00:23:57.320All of the data show us that religiosity is on the decline.
00:24:01.020Now, on the flip side of that, you know, people like Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro or Andrew Klavan or other people who explain about God, either explicitly or implicitly, those guys are more popular than ever.
00:24:17.080The people who are talking about meaning in life, they're selling a lot of books and a lot of young people are listening to them.
00:24:23.280Is this the triumph of spiritual but not religious?
00:24:27.580Or on the bright side, is this the darkness before the dawn of a religious revival being led by those people who are talking about God in, I think, a mostly explicit way?
00:24:38.600You know, I think what it is is kind of like the suburban sprawl of spirituality.
00:24:50.400And it looks like when you drive through suburban sprawl, it just looks like everyone is living in the suburbs and there's no hope for humanity.
00:24:58.160When, in fact, I think in the midst of that, there will be urban renewal.
00:25:02.140You know, there will be a renaissance for farming, that kind of thing.
00:25:05.260I think the same goes for being religious.
00:25:07.020There is actually, I think, a deep hunger and a longing, especially in young people today, for religious moorings, for something that's beautiful and for a story that's bigger than themselves that they can participate in.
00:25:21.080And true religion, not phony religion, right?
00:25:23.680Not when you're being a big fake show.
00:25:25.520But true religion rooted in history and in revelation, that goes deep.
00:25:30.720And people are longing for those old liturgies and traditions that are actually perennial.
00:25:38.020I will say, especially speaking of the liturgy, there, you know, all of the churches I find that have this watered down liturgy and, you know, they're all the acoustic guitars or whatever.
00:26:35.500Speaking of the spiritual but not religious, a Catholic university has now opened a sex-segregated prayer space to accommodate Muslim students.
00:26:46.820We have a little bit of time to get into this.
00:26:48.740I can't let this story go without mentioning it.
00:26:50.740St. Ambrose University in Davenport has now opened up a prayer space yesterday that designates separate areas for male and female worshipers.