Kanye West wears a MAGA hat in the Oval Office. What does that have to do with politics? And what does it mean for Kanye s relationship with President Trump? Plus, the latest in the leftist tears downpour.
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00:00:37.720As the leftist tears downpour enters its sixth day, Democrats have embraced the rain dance.
00:00:44.000According to left-wing outlet Vox.com, modern witches are creating rituals to foster activism in the wake of Justice Kavanaugh's confirmation to the Supreme Court.
00:00:53.660We will analyze Democrats' demon craft and cultic symbolism more broadly in politics.
00:00:59.200Then, Kanye totally kills it in the Oval Office.
00:01:02.820PC mobs tell us to stop calling them mobs, or else.
00:01:06.240And Vox's Jane Koston joins to discuss civility.
00:02:57.980It is one of these things you watch it and you just...
00:03:00.980I know some conservatives are still doer and pessimistic for some reason.
00:03:04.560Watching this and just imagine you today telling you three years ago that this would be happening.
00:03:11.240That the biggest pop star in the world, the biggest popular musician probably on planet Earth would be wearing a MAGA hat in the Oval Office.
00:03:18.720Talking about how great the Republican administration is and making fun of liberals with that language.
00:03:32.120One of the moves that I love that liberals try to do, the liberal would try to control a black person through the concept of racism because they know that we are very proud emotional people.
00:03:41.660So when I said I like Trump to like someone that's liberal, they'll say, oh, but he's racist.
00:04:38.120People, and they have such the same approach.
00:04:40.940When you go out there and you say, you try to shame them, you try to get them to change their mind, you try to get them to stop saying what they want to say, they just flat out say no.
00:04:50.920They'll double down on what they're saying.
00:04:52.760You know, Kanye West said, you think that by using the word racist, you can control my actions.
00:18:17.320That was from Tara Burton, who writes a lot about religion.
00:18:20.000It's interesting because I think that a lot of her work works on, she has talked a lot about the Vatican and the recent crisis in the Catholic Church.
00:18:29.940And I think it's particularly challenging because when we talk about religion here, we're talking about a lot of different religions.
00:18:35.820So I think it's interesting that she's able to write so effectively across a wide swath of religious beliefs.
00:18:45.880There was one at Alatea a while ago on the cultic imagery in that Ariana Grande video.
00:18:52.300And it was this terrific piece written by a self-described witch.
00:18:55.680And I think a lot of people on the left and the right don't appreciate religious symbolism because a lot of people are religiously illiterate now.
00:19:05.120And you have some common ground with conservatives, or you at least have an understanding of some aspects of conservatism, which I think makes you unique in many ways.
00:19:34.160When they go low, we're going to kick them right in the face.
00:19:36.940What say you, both the perspective on civility from the left and broadly for the whole country?
00:19:45.520Well, I think from the left, we have to recognize that the left is responding to this phenomenon at which the right has basically been saying,
00:19:55.320why are you kicking yourself, why are you kicking yourself, why are you kicking yourself, why are you kicking yourself for three years?
00:20:00.100No, do you think the right has been uncivil?
00:20:02.960I think the right has been uncivil, yes.
00:20:04.920I think everyone involved has been uncivil.
00:20:06.920And I'm operating entirely in good faith here.
00:20:09.900I think that the same people, you know, I think that it's complicated, and I talk about this a lot, how when we talk about the right or the left, we need to be really careful in our terms.
00:20:18.980Because I think that we run the risk of conflating David French at National Review with someone writing at Breitbart.
00:20:26.200When we vote, we all know that those are not the same thing.
00:20:32.420You know, we're not talking about Noah Rothman at commentary versus, like, someone getting aggregated at Twitchy.
00:20:38.360These are different things and a different conceptualization of what the right is.
00:20:42.720So I think that, first and foremost, it's important to kind of get at our terms here.
00:20:47.020Because I think what Clinton and Holder and others are responding to is this idea that, you know, I remember that that was that kind of meme of 2015, 2016 about Trump, the butt he fights.
00:20:59.680That, you know, Trump accusing Ted Cruz's father of being the killer of JFK.
00:21:10.980And you saw again and again that, you know, everyone made fun of Jeb Bush because basically, you know, called him a cuck because he wasn't like Trump.
00:21:19.860And this idea that Trump won on the basis of fighting and on the basis of just feeling willing to insult people and insulting Ted Cruz's wife and insulting Hillary Clinton.
00:21:29.560And this idea that, okay, well, that seemed to work.
00:21:33.200And now you're seeing, I think, some people on the left say, like, all right, well, I mean, I think that that's what you're kind of getting at, I think, but I brought this up before, that Michael Avenatti is a logical presidential candidate because he's just as terrible.
00:21:49.060But, you know, and I totally grant you Donald Trump fought very hard against his Republican primary opponents and against Hillary Clinton.
00:21:56.460But you remember Hillary Clinton called half the country deplorable and irredeemable.
00:22:01.660And this wasn't, and I'm not even that concerned about political rhetoric per se because both sides can get nasty, both sides can fight.
00:22:08.780What I'm talking about, though, is since President Trump won, you've got elected Democrats, Maxine Waters say, go out there, find Republicans where they eat, where they sleep, go to their homes, you know, harass them in public.
00:22:22.720Like, I don't think that we have seen a similarity on the right.
00:22:27.800I actually don't think that there's moral equivalence here.
00:22:31.520I think that it's challenging because, again, we're working with our definitions of, like, who gets to be counted on the right.
00:22:37.120Because I know that if I bring up Unite the Right and Charlottesville, you will rightly say, like, those aren't conservatives.
00:22:43.460You know, Richard Spencer is not a conservative.
00:22:44.220They say that they're not conservatives.
00:22:59.100But those guys, Jane, surely there's a difference between David Duke and Richard Spencer and the, you know, now I think what has atrophied to the five people in their basements who call themselves alternative right, down from 200 or 300.
00:23:12.620To Maxine Waters, who's an elected Democrat and who's been in office forever.
00:23:18.000Yeah, and Steve King is also an elected Republican.
00:23:20.880And, again, like, we could keep going back and forth.
00:23:24.180But Steve King's never called for violence, never called for public harassment.
00:23:27.560I think that when you're talking about someone like Steve King or you're talking about this concept of, like, who's promoting violence and who isn't promoting violence, I think that it's important.
00:23:37.160First, I want to say at the top that promoting violence is bad.
00:23:44.000You know, if someone, like, drives into a building because Jane Coastin said something, I just want to be here on the record saying, please don't drive into a building.
00:23:51.600But I want to be clear that there is a sense that I think a lot of people in love have this idea that, you know, when there's a lock her up chant at a rally, which obviously features not violence, to be perfectly clear.
00:24:05.620But I think that there's a sense, like, why can these people get away with something and we can't get away with something?
00:24:10.740No one should be getting away with it at all.
00:24:12.300But the lock her up chant is asking why Hillary Clinton is allowed to get away with something as well, right?
00:24:17.720Which is, why is she allowed to get away with mishandling federal records?
00:24:21.040Why is she allowed to get away with wiping her servers?
00:24:22.860Why is she allowed to get away with this and that?
00:24:24.260I'm not defending it, though I do defend the lock her up chant.
00:24:28.100I'm just saying there is a difference between that and saying go to Hillary Clinton's home where she sleeps and kick her out of restaurants.
00:24:36.360I think that there is a sense that there is no, how best to put this, I think that for some people on the left, there is a sense that the degradation of how people see politics
00:24:52.880and the personalization of politics means that they're an idea that, you know, if you see Ted Cruz, that's the same Ted Cruz who is, you know, making fun of Beto O'Rourke for pointing out the murder of Both of Jean in a Twitter ad.
00:25:09.360You know, that the personalization of politics means that people, you know, you see Ted Cruz, you're not seeing Ted Cruz guy eating dinner, you're seeing Ted Cruz that politician.
00:25:18.600And I think that there is a sense on the left, and I think somewhat on the right in a little bit, but I think it's a different conceptualization, that the personalization of politics means that political figures, it's not, you know, a lot of people have criticized this because you see pictures of Michelle Obama and George W. Bush together.
00:25:38.240And they've talked a lot about how they have this really enjoyable friendship.
00:25:40.960And people get very mad about this, on both the right and on the left, because there's that, you know, that old five versus five thing that everyone kind of clocks in, we yell at each other, we clock out, we go back to hanging out, which in some ways is actually kind of how it should work a little bit.
00:25:56.840But for a lot of people on both sides, there's a sense like, no, no, we, this is a fight to death.
00:26:02.180You know, you see people who start longing for the return of the Civil War, which no one should long for the return of the Civil War.
00:26:08.580And you see that on both sides, people saying like, well, the red states have more guns, or like, well, you know.
00:26:14.560I mean, there's no question about that.
00:26:16.400I think that, you know, one, the Civil War was bad, and we shouldn't do it again.
00:26:21.060But also, the personalization of politics means that, you know, people, when someone is sending Maxine Waters, or someone is sending Cory Gardner death threats, you're not sending a person death threats.
00:26:32.540You're sending this political entity who's not a real person.
00:27:10.640You know, I don't think I've referred to Elizabeth Warren without calling her Laya Watha in the last two years.
00:27:16.240So I want to know from your perspective, where do you think it's going to go?
00:27:19.960Or is it going to be some belligerent Michael Avenatti, you know, guy who just makes things up and challenges people to mixed martial arts fights?
00:27:28.500Or are you going to get a more, I don't know.
00:27:31.840I actually don't even really know who the moderate or centrist Democrat would be.
00:27:35.780I guess Joe Biden would be maybe the closest.
00:27:37.500Where is it going to go as we head through the midterms and into 2020?
00:27:43.080Well, I think that it's complicated because, you know, if we think back to 2014, people were not exactly talking about a Donald Trump presidential run until we get to that, you know, the June 2015 escalator moment.
00:28:02.840And you're seeing that in state after state after state after state.
00:28:05.820And, you know, I'll talk specifically about, say, the state of Michigan.
00:28:08.800The state of Michigan is a really interesting example because you have the Democrats going really hard on the issue of criminal justice because they're pointing out the fact that Larry Nassar, one of the worst sexual abusers in American history.
00:28:22.200Who abused hundreds of children, essentially, you know, a lot of Democrats are kind of saying, like, clearly Republicans who were in charge in Lansing were not able to get a handle on this issue or on the Flint water issue.
00:28:36.200So I think what you're going to see more is this increased, you know, I think conservatives will love it because it's a return to federalism, increased localism in politics.
00:28:45.800Because you're seeing, you know, in Ohio, in Wisconsin, in Minnesota, in Michigan, a lot of these states, you're seeing people saying, you know, I don't really care, you know, Trump, Russia, whatever, that's fine.
00:28:56.700I want to talk about this specific issue.
00:28:59.120You saw that in Virginia last year in the special election where you had candidates who were running for the Virginia House talking about, like, I have nothing to say about Trump.
00:29:08.240All I care about is this traffic issue.
00:29:10.100And they win because it turns out that when you live in the state of Virginia, you care a lot about traffic.
00:29:15.380And so, you know, I'm not sure what that's going to result in, in terms of a 2020 nominee, because I have gotten out of the business of trying to predict what is going to happen with presidential nominees.
00:29:27.680But I do think that Democrats on the ground are really going with a, OK, what are people actually worried about?
00:29:35.800Not like I think that there's a sense that, you know, there's like what we get riled up about on Twitter.
00:29:40.460There are people who are fake worried about things.
00:29:43.260And then there are people, you know, I think, you know, when I was before I came to Vox, you know, I was paying for my own and my spouse's own health care.
00:29:52.020And that was a that's a major concern for millions of people.
00:29:55.180I was really concerned about housing issues because, you know, I live in the city of D.C.
00:31:15.500And certainly in this political climate.
00:31:17.880What the Music Modernization Act does is it really helps out songwriters.
00:31:23.040So just briefly, because I think some people think that it's the government intruding into the market with regard to music and music publishing and streaming.
00:31:34.100The government has had its heavy hand on this for so long.
00:31:38.000And I know a number of songwriters, pretty well-known songwriters.
00:31:41.480So they've been looking into this for years and years.
00:31:43.660Apparently, what happened is in 1906 or 1909, when this kind of copyright and music regime was established, it was because piano roll companies, you know, like the player pianos, you put the roll in and it just starts playing.
00:31:58.760And they were really upset because they didn't want to have to pay songwriters.
00:32:03.940So they go to Papa, Uncle Sam, big government, and say, we don't want to have to pay them a lot.
00:32:13.860So the producers and the publishers and the songwriters really get hurt with this.
00:32:21.900Now, until today, another aspect of this Music Modernization Act was that songwriters from who published works before 1972 would just not be paid when their music was streamed.
00:32:33.400They just wouldn't get, they'd just get nothing.
00:33:04.640You don't want to upset either record producers or this or that.
00:33:07.760And it took a lot of political courage.
00:33:10.220And a lot of songwriters are saying, Democrats were behind the bill, but only this administration could have gotten it through.
00:33:16.160Only a pro-business, pro-market administration who took this seriously and was willing to take the political risk and the moral risk could have gotten this through.
00:33:24.420And that's what I've been saying all week, and I've been saying it for a long time about this administration.
00:33:57.040If you haven't gotten your Tumblr yet, then I'm sorry that you've drowned.
00:34:02.200May the Lord have mercy on your soul after that Kanye presser in the Oval Office.
00:34:06.640If you have your Tumblr, but it's filled to the brim, you're worried, you know, you're worried for your family and your property and yourself, go get another one.
00:34:40.080What I'm doing right now is I'm rereading Dante, rereading the comedy, which is the greatest poem ever written, and it's been nine years since I've read Dante, and I just felt like reading it again.
00:34:52.300Nine is a very important number to Dante, and it's just the most tremendous work of art I've ever encountered, so I really recommend that you read it.
00:35:00.000If you can read it in translation, there are a few good translations, all free on the internet, and if you have Italian, it's much more beautiful in Italian if you can read it that way.
00:35:10.980And if you want, you can also, on the podcast, get a lecture series on the comedy, so you can read along with the lecture series, coincidentally, by the guy who taught me Dante, Giuseppe Mazzotta.
00:35:26.520I highly recommend it, and it's in English.
00:35:28.200It's in translation, so you can get that.
00:35:29.620I think that it was actually recorded the year I studied with him, coincidentally, at 2009, but now it's up on podcast, so you can go listen to that, too.
00:35:39.460I also just read, I was reading Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem by Carol Delaney.
00:36:21.700Both in their early 30s, her partner would be the one to conceive the baby.
00:36:24.960I oppose her decision based on the argument that I think it's deeply selfish to deprive a child of a father just to fulfill their own wants.
00:36:32.340Legally, I think they should be able to do whatever without the law forbidding them.
00:36:36.580What are your thoughts, and how would I go about to express my disapproval without getting a knee-jerk reaction of,
00:36:42.640you think we shouldn't be allowed to have babies argument that I expect?
00:37:20.520Also, the problem with in vitro fertilization is very often, almost all the time, it necessitates the abortion of embryos or freezing embryos in perpetuity.
00:37:33.120So you create embryos that are either going to be killed or not allowed to grow.
00:37:37.740So that's a big problem in and of itself.
00:37:41.000What your sisters could do if they want to raise a child, or your sister and her partner,
00:37:46.840if they want to raise a child, that can be a noble thing.
00:37:51.500I don't think that you should create a baby, beget a baby, and not let it know its father or have some strange relationship to its father.
00:38:00.560But, you know, you could always, your sister could always adopt, especially a foster child.
00:38:04.720In the United States, there's something like 32 or 36 families waiting to adopt for every one child.
00:38:09.920But when it gets up to, or for every one infant, but when it gets up to older children, it's much harder.
00:38:14.760And there are a lot of people in the foster system.
00:38:16.260There are a lot of people in group homes.
00:38:18.480A lot of people have had to leave bad homes for bad reasons.
00:39:01.980I had a situation recently that the father of one of my best friends passed away due to cancer.
00:39:06.240This friend and her family, who I have known and loved for more than 20 years, are vehemently anti-Christian, very liberal, have always been.
00:39:12.860Because I had so much love and affection for the man, I felt compelled to somehow convey to him my Christian thoughts about Jesus dying for our sins in hope for a deathbed conversion when I visited.
00:39:21.980However, I hesitated at the last minute and he died the next day.
00:39:25.780I have felt bad ever since because I missed my opportunity.
00:39:29.440What would you have done in this situation?
00:43:13.240I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't dismiss an open-minded or curious left-winger just because she doesn't check all the boxes of politics.
00:43:22.360We have time for a couple more from Nellio.
00:43:25.900Good day, Mr. Opium of the Masses, Michael.
00:43:29.400I'm a Catholic and the rise of anti-humanism today is rather frightening.
00:43:32.660Some friends of mine are advocating for one-child policies and even going as far as to say that we have a moral obligation to not have children anymore.
00:43:41.320How can we fight this neo-Malthusian garbage?
00:43:44.880How can we start pulling ourselves out of this hole of anti-human narcissism?
00:45:50.680From Christopher, with Columbus Day, I mean Indigenous Peoples Day over, I re-watched your Columbus Day special, which talks about how he was a great man.
00:46:00.880However, I also saw the Adam Ruins Everything episode about Christopher Columbus.
00:46:05.700And he starts off calling him an incompetent buffoon.
00:46:09.580He does back up what he says with sources, but you can't both be right about Columbus.
00:46:14.460With two diametrically different points of view on the same person, how are we supposed to distinguish who is right and who is wrong?
00:46:55.060He sensed when he was on Porto Santo, when he was in Portugal, he could feel, and he would take all of these incredible voyages up to Britain, up to even past Britain, up into the Arctic.
00:47:05.860And he could feel the easterly currents in the northern Atlantic.
00:47:09.420So he just suspected, as far as I can tell, the first guy to suspect, that there might be a westerly current if you went a little further down south.
00:47:16.360So he decided that he would sail a little bit further south.
00:47:20.000Certainly he felt that westerly current, and he took it all the way over to the Americas.
00:47:23.900He was also brilliantly educated beyond just his navigational skills, which were unparalleled in his time.
00:47:31.740The evidence of that, of course, there was a lot of evidence of that, one of which is he discovered the Americas.
00:47:36.960But also he was devoted to reading the Bible at a time when a lot of people didn't read the Bible because either they were illiterate,
00:47:44.360and Christopher Columbus certainly was literate and in many ways self-taught, but he made sure education was very important to him.
00:47:55.820I think he was with Franciscan monks, and he would read it all of the time because he was trying to figure out the age since the first man.
00:48:03.100He was trying to figure out when predictions of the apocalypse would happen.
00:48:06.880He was trying to figure out how to make sense of all geopolitics, the fall of Constantinople.