Ep. 434 - The Trump Doctrine
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Summary
As President Trump catches heat from all sides over his decision to move U.S. troops out of Syria, we examine the president s seemingly contradictory foreign policy impulses, and ask, is there any such thing as the Trump Doctrine? Then AOC and the rest of the squad pick a presidential candidate, Kanye West give lessons on family values, and finally, the mailbag, all that and more.
Transcript
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As President Trump catches heat from all sides over his decision to move U.S. troops out of
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northern Syria, we examine the president's seemingly contradictory foreign policy impulses
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and we ask, is there any such thing as the Trump Doctrine? Then AOC and the rest of the squad
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pick a presidential candidate, Kanye West give lessons on family values, and finally
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the mailbag, all that and more. I'm Michael Knowles and this is The Michael Knowles Show.
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I have before me the single greatest letter ever written by a head of state to another
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head of state. This is President Trump's truly bizarre and very, very entertaining letter
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to Erdogan, the president of Turkey. We will analyze it because this letter, as well as
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President Trump's treatment of Nancy Pelosi, as well as President Trump's treatment of
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the late Elijah Cummings, who died very unexpectedly and very sadly just today, they do tell us
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something about the Trump Doctrine. We will connect all of the dots, but first we've got
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Does President Trump have a coherent foreign policy doctrine? A lot of people are looking
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at this recent letter that he sent to the president of Turkey, Erdogan, and saying he just,
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he's a maniac. He has no idea what he's doing. He's a complete lunatic. He might be a lunatic,
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but he's, he's crazy as a fox. And the fox matters here because when we think about foreign
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policy, there are all sorts of analogies we use. Isaiah Berlin, the philosopher said,
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are you a fox or are you a hedgehog? Is Trump a realist? Is he an internationalist? Is he a liberal?
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Is he a this? Is he that? Is he this? Is he that? I think that President Trump does have a coherent
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foreign policy doctrine. His detractors say he's impetuous and he's, he's petty and personal and
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stupid and ignorant. His more charitable distract, detractors say that if Trump does have any sort
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of doctrine, it's full of contradictions and paradoxes, right? And so on the one hand, he says,
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we're going to go kill ISIS. We're going to go overseas and send troops in and kill ISIS. Then he
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says, we're going to take all our troops home. We have too many troops abroad. On the one hand,
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he says, we want tariffs. Tariffs are great. Tariffs are a great thing. On the other hand,
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he says, we want to get rid of all tariffs. We want totally free trade. One day he says, we hate China.
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We're going to destroy China. Next day is congratulating China on 70 years of communism.
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Seems like a lot of contradictions. I think the doctrine is a lot more coherent than people think.
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And you can see it in this absolutely wild and crazy letter that he sent to Erdogan.
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Here's the letter. This is an authentic letter. He referred to it yesterday when it's going around
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the internet. Dear Mr. President, let's work out a great deal! Exclamation point.
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Right at the beginning, completely uncommon, just like you'd talk to somebody in a bar. Let's work
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out a great deal. Really positive is how he starts. Then he goes a little negative. You don't want to
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be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don't want to be responsible for
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destroying the Turkish economy. And I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to
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Pastor Brunson. This was another foreign policy conflict that we've had with Turkey. I've worked hard
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to solve some of your problems. Don't let the world down. You can make a great deal. General
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Maslum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never
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have made in the past. I'm confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me just received.
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History will look favorably upon you if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon
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you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool.
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I will call you later. Sincerely, Donald Trump. There is so much in this letter to unpack.
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Tells you a lot about the doctrine. He starts out, let's make a good deal. Very positive,
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very willing to negotiate. Then he threatens the president of Turkey for the rest of the paragraph.
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Then he talks about how he has worked in Turkey's interest. Then he encourages him to make a good
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deal in Turkey's own interest. Then he gives some evidence of why this is in Turkey's interest in
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the enclosed letter that's confidential. Then he goes on to talk about Turkey's interest.
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Then he threatens Turkey and shows why it's not in their interest to work against the United States
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here. Then he includes that last bit of advice. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool.
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I will call you later. I think that, I think the Trump doctrine, you could sum it up in those three
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lines. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool. I will call you later. What does he mean? Don't be a
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tough guy. He doesn't mean don't be tough. Trump talks all the time about how we need to be tough.
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Trump has positioned himself as the tough guy. What he means by don't be a tough guy is don't,
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don't, don't act foolishly out of a desire to appear tough because of your pride. I think that's
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what that really means. Don't let your pride make you fall into stupid decisions, which he then
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reiterates in the next sentence. Don't be a fool. And, and which I think he then vindicates that
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interpretation in the final sentence, which is I will call you later because Trump doesn't let his
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pride get in the way of things. You know, Trump gets this knock on him for being prideful and
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narcissistic and petty and everything's about his own ego. I don't think that's the case.
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I think everything's about his interest. I think he views politics through the realm, not of pride,
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but of interest. I think there's actually a profound humility in viewing politics through that realm of
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interest. I mean, if, if Trump had real pride here, what would he do? He'd go in and blow turkey off
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the map. He'd glass the whole country, right? He'd take out the Turkish military. He'd say,
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don't you dare do this. We're going to get you. This is the, this is the credibility of the United
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States on the line. He's not doing that. He's saying, let's make a deal. Okay. You did something
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I don't like. We'll make a deal though. That requires a certain humility and, and not allowing
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pride to make you, uh, prefer to appear like a tough guy than to actually cut some sort of deal.
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There's a lot more to this doctrine, but I think it actually can be distilled into some pretty clear
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points. How does it compare with other doctrines? Ronald Reagan had a doctrine.
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Reagan's doctrine was in part written by Charles Krauthammer in an essay that Krauthammer wrote
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in, in part, not to even observe the Trump, the Reagan doctrine, but to write the Reagan doctrine.
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Krauthammer copped to this later on. He said, I wasn't sure what sort of foreign policy was going on
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here, but I figured I could encourage the white house to follow my foreign policy. And Reagan then
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articulated this doctrine at his state of the union address. He said, quote, freedom is not the sole
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prerogative of a chosen few. It is the universal right of all God's children. He said America's
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mission is to, quote, nourish and defend freedom and democracy. He said, quote, we must stand by our
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democratic allies and we must not break faith with those who are risking their lives on every continent
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from Afghanistan to Nicaragua to defy Soviet supported aggression and secure rights, which
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have been ours from birth. Support for freedom fighters is self-defense. Now this doctrine,
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the Reagan doctrine has been knocked because we ended up supporting people in the Middle East who then
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turned out to be not so favorable to us 20 or 30 years later. We supported people who were Islamists,
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who supported political Islam and who now we would, we would describe as terrorists. So he gets
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hit for that. That, that, that I don't think is a legitimate criticism. The Reagan doctrine made
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perfect sense within the context of the Soviet union. It was in the national interest of the United
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States to constrain Soviet expansion, to constrain communism. And so that is what we did. We did this
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by advocating a policy of liberal internationalism. We did this by advocating a policy of freedom,
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as the birthright of all people around the world and this particular American conception of freedom,
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and we were going to stop the Soviet union, which we did. And it worked. That's the vindication of the
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Reagan doctrine. The Berlin wall came down. The Reagan doctrine worked. What was the Bush doctrine?
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The Bush doctrine was in many ways, the extension of the Reagan doctrine in a world outside of the cold
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war. This made less sense because politics is contextual. Politics is about interest. During
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the cold war, we could easily identify the interests of the United States with the Reagan doctrine.
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After the cold war, liberal interventionists lost sight of this key feature, which is what is in the
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American national security interest and in the national interest broadly. What liberal interventionists
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at that time said was, it was in the interest of the United States to have broad sort of liberal empire
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that would create Madisonian ideas of freedom all throughout the world in places and in contexts
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that did not have any history of that. This appears not to have worked very well,
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though they are very similar doctrines. The context is what's different. The interest is what's
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different. And the Trump doctrine is a repudiation of the Bush doctrine. Now, there are other components
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of this too. You know, President Trump spelled this out in a pretty nuanced statement he gave on Syria.
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He's been relatively mum on his decision to pull out of Syria as all of the left and half of the right
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are furious with him over pulling troops out of Northern Syria. He made a statement in the White House
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yesterday, which was actually quite nuanced. The statement he made on Syria explained his foreign
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policy vision as a vision of interest and nationalism. Here he is.
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Now, President Erdogan's decision didn't surprise me because he's wanted to do that for a long time.
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He's been building up troops on the border with Syria for a long time, as you know.
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Our soldiers are mostly gone from the area. We only had 26, 28, but under 50. I think it's probably
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28, but under 50 soldiers and which is a very tiny force. And it didn't surprise me at all. This is
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they've been warring for many years. It's unnatural for us, but it's sort of natural for them. They fight
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and they fight long and they fight hard. And they've been fighting Syria for a long time. And on the border,
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that's the border with Syria. And I say, why are we protecting Syria's land? Assad's not a friend
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of ours. Why are we protecting their land? And Syria also has a relationship with the Kurds,
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who, by the way, are no angels. Okay. Who is an angel? There aren't too many around,
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but Syria has a relationship with the Kurds. So they'll come in for their border and they'll fight.
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They may bring partners in. They could bring Russia in. And I say, welcome to it. Russia went into
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Afghanistan when it was the Soviet Union and it became Russia, became a much smaller country
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because of Afghanistan. You can overextend. You can do a lot of things. But frankly,
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if Russia is going to help in protecting the Kurds, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
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This is an astounding statement because it shows a level of nuance that I think a lot of people didn't
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think that Trump had. My position on the decision to move 50 or so troops out of Syria, out of
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northern Syria, is basically that the issue is much more complicated than anyone would like you
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to believe. We'll get into that in one second. We'll get into what this means because the foreign
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policy, the doctrine that President Trump just espoused in that statement is not some modern,
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new, crazy, shoot by the hip thing. This is a foreign policy that goes back to Charles
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DeGaul. It goes back to Lord Palmerston. It goes back to George Washington himself. We'll get to
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that in a second. But first, I've got to thank our friends over at ExpressVPN. I don't need to tell
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ExpressVPN.com slash Michael to get started. What Trump just said here, the statement that's
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really getting people upset is that the Kurds, all the Kurds aren't angels. It's like he's attacking
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the Kurds. But what he, what he said to follow up is you don't see a lot of angels really anywhere.
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James Madison said this, right? He said, we're not governed by angels. We are not angels ourselves.
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And the situation in Syria is complicated. The alliances have been changing rapidly.
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Just to give you a little taste of it, until 2017, we supported the Free Syrian Army. Then we
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stopped supporting the Free Syrian Army. Now I suppose we're opposed to the Free Syrian Army.
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When we tried to go in to fight ISIS, when Barack Obama went in in 2014, he tried to get Turkey,
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which is the second largest military in NATO, to go in with us. Turkey didn't want to go in because
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the official policy of the United States was not regime change in Damascus. It was not ousting
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Bashar Assad. So we make a deal, not with the Kurds broadly, but with the YPG, the People's Protection
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Units, which is a group of Kurds. This was a tricky alliance because the YPG is associated with
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the PKK, which is the Kurdistan Workers' Party. The Kurdistan Workers' Party is officially considered
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a terrorist organization by the United States, as well as by the EU and the United Kingdom,
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and crucially by Turkey. So we make this alliance. That's okay. That's fine. And we're working with
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a common interest to defeat ISIS. We defeat ISIS. Now the question is, do we privilege an alliance
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with a sub-state group of people, the YPG, which has an affiliation with a group that we consider
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terrorists at the State Department, or do we privilege a 67-year alliance through NATO with
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our NATO ally, Turkey, which is a nation state? There's no question about that. Obviously you
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privilege the relationship with Turkey. Obama would have done it. Trump did it too. The same people
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who are criticizing President Trump for betraying our allies are also the people who criticize Trump
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for undermining NATO. But we chose our NATO ally over our sub-state actor ally. And this was a very sad
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situation because we have regularly abandoned the Kurds. We've abandoned the Kurds in the 1970s when
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we used them to stir up trouble against Saddam Hussein on behalf of the Shah of Iran. We abandoned
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the Kurds after the Gulf War in 1991 when we suggested to them that we would support them in
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an uprising against Saddam Hussein. We didn't do that and they got massacred. And we've abandoned
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groups of Kurds now. This happens regularly. So one of the arguments, one of the arguments for
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the pulling the troops out of Syria is now that Bashar Assad is ensconced in power, he's not going
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to be ousted anytime soon. It is in the Kurds' longer term interest to strike a deal for some
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form of sovereignty and independence with Bashar Assad rather than to continue this civil war in a
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stalemate and try to work out a long-term alliance with the United States, which has abandoned them on
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multiple occasions for the last 50 years. I say all of that to say this is a very complicated
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situation. And what is Trump's takeaway from this? Trump's takeaway from this is nations do not have
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permanent friends. Nations have interests. They don't have permanent friends, certainly with
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sub-state actors. They don't have permanent friends with nations. They only have interests.
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Some people say this is cynical and awful and evil and un-American. B.S. This is an idea advocated by
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Lord Palmerston, by Charles de Gaulle, and by George Washington himself. George Washington in his
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farewell address said, quote, it is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion
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of the foreign world. Why? Does that mean we can't have any friends? No, of course we can have
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temporary alliances, but nations have interests, not personal friends. Then Trump goes on to caution
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against the military industrial complex. We're going to bring our great soldiers back home where
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they belong. We don't have to fight these endless wars. We're bringing them back home. That's what I
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want on. And some people, whether you call it the military industrial complex or beyond that,
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they'd like me to stay. One of the problems I have and one of, for instance, with the witch hunt,
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you have people that want me to stay. They want me to fight forever. They do very well fighting.
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That's what they want to do, fight. A lot of companies want to fight because they make their
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weapons based on fighting, not based on peace. And they take care of a lot of people. I want to
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bring our soldiers back home. We're not a police force. We're a fighting force. We're the greatest
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fighting force ever. Okay. So President Trump warns against the military industrial complex.
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Sounds a little bit like a kook, like a conspiracy theory guy with a tinfoil hat, right? Sort of. He also
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sounds like President Eisenhower, who used that exact phrase when he was leaving office. He said,
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beware the military industrial complex. And he sounds a little bit like Washington, who says,
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avoid, avoid these permanent alliances. Sounds like Jefferson, avoid entangling alliances too.
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Then Trump explains the really tangible reason why he wants to get the soldiers out of Syria and what
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this means for American grand strategy broadly. I campaigned on bringing our soldiers back home.
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And that's what I'm doing. That includes other places too, many other places. Statutorily,
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it takes a period of time. Diplomatically, it takes a period of time. But, you know, we're in
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many countries, many, many countries. I'm embarrassed to tell you how many. I know the exact number,
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but I'm embarrassed to say it because it's so foolish. We're in countries, we're protecting
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countries that don't even like us. They take advantage of us. They don't pay nothing.
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Okay. What President Trump is saying here is, not only are we going to pull out of Syria,
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I want to pull out of all these 130 countries that we're in around the world. I want to pull out
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why? Because he's defending the Westphalian system, the order of nation states,
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as opposed to an imperial order where the United States acts as a sort of benevolent liberal empire
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around the world. I think there are good arguments for both of those. I think there's a good argument
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for the system of nation states. I think there's a good argument for empire. Trump is making clear
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he supports nation states and the Westphalian system. You even see this, you see, you get clues
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about Trump's foreign policy, the Trump doctrine, the Trump grand strategy in his interactions,
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even with individuals at home. He had this meeting yesterday with the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi
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made a big scene about it and she stood up and pointed a finger at Trump so she could get a picture
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and put it on Twitter. Chuck Schumer was crying about this at a press conference outside because
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the most dangerous place in the world is not in Northern Syria. It's between Chuck Schumer and a
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television camera. Here's Chuck Schumer complaining about the meeting.
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He was insulting, particularly to the speaker. She kept her cool completely, but he called her a
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third-rate politician. He said that there are communists involved and you guys might like that.
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I mean, this was not a dialogue. It was sort of a diatribe, a nasty diatribe, not focused on the facts,
00:22:37.660
particularly the fact of how to curtail ISIS, a terrorist organization that aims to hurt the
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United States in our homeland. Okay. He says Nancy Pelosi kept her cool. She didn't. We have
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photographic evidence that she didn't. She stood up and wagged her finger like a lunatic.
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The reason I bring this up is because President Trump at different times in his life will say Nancy
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Pelosi's the greatest. When she became Speaker of the House, he sent her a note, said, Nancy,
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you're the greatest. Congratulations. Then he goes and screams at her. On one day,
00:23:09.000
he says Ted Cruz is a liar whose father murdered JFK. The next day he said, I call him beautiful Ted now.
00:23:15.120
One day he's attacking Rand Paul. The next day he likes Rand Paul. One day, you remember just a few
00:23:18.960
months ago, Trump was going after Congressman Elijah Cummings as one of the worst, most crooked
00:23:23.660
members of all of Congress. Then Elijah Cummings, very sadly, passed away today. He's only 68 years old,
00:23:29.960
very, very young man. And we were all nervous that Trump was going to say something mean about him,
00:23:34.080
which was just, would serve no purpose at all and would be very unseemly. And he didn't. Trump
00:23:38.860
sent out a tweet. He said, quote, my warmest condolences to the family and many friends of
00:23:42.720
Congressman Elijah Cummings. I got to see firsthand the strength, passion, and wisdom of this highly
00:23:48.620
respected political leader. His work and voice on so many fronts will be very hard, if not impossible,
00:23:53.440
to replace. Very nice note. Absolutely right. He's not saying that he really likes Elijah Cummings here,
00:23:59.020
but he is. He's saying, look, obviously the guy was strong, stayed in office a long time. He was very
00:24:03.020
passionate. He was one of the most passionate orators in the Congress. And he did have wisdom.
00:24:07.460
He had a, he had a, certainly a lot of political wisdom. And it's sad that he died so young. And
00:24:13.020
President Trump made a nice note about him. People who are more rigidly ideological, who have a little
00:24:18.460
more, a little more, I guess you could say pride or consistency would be another word, would,
00:24:26.580
would have stuck to their guns and said, he's a really terrible guy. But it's all contextual for Trump.
00:24:33.020
So this gives us some of the Trump doctrine. The keys here are the context, circumstances changing.
00:24:41.940
One foreign policy strategy will not fit for all times in all places. They must be adapted to
00:24:46.900
different circumstances. What worked in the Cold War will not necessarily and probably won't work
00:24:51.000
after the Cold War. And the Trump doctrine is one of radical self-interest. So President Trump,
00:24:59.940
there's, there's an irony, there's a paradox, there's a contradiction. On the one hand, everything
00:25:03.600
about him is personal. He says to Erdogan, I'll call you later. He says, don't be a tough guy. Don't
00:25:08.860
be a fool. He's really hitting them really hard. But then he says, but don't worry. I'll call you
00:25:13.060
later. There's a personal touch to it because politics is acted out by persons, but you don't
00:25:18.440
take anything personally. Even in the same letter, he changes tone like three times. He doesn't take this
00:25:23.720
stuff. The attacks, he doesn't take that personally. The attacks he gives, he doesn't take that
00:25:27.240
personally. He can switch on a dime. And this is important because what he is taking is the
00:25:31.840
Charles de Gaulle idea that nations don't have friends, they have interests. He's making that
00:25:35.780
even about himself. He's saying politicians don't have friends, they have interests. And so we,
00:25:40.420
we work together when our interests align. We don't work together when our interests don't align.
00:25:44.720
Be that the YPG Kurdish forces, be that Turkey, be that Russia. In the post-Cold War world with a
00:25:50.700
rising China being the number one adversary, maybe you have to change. Maybe Russia is no longer our
00:25:55.280
number one geopolitical foe. If China is now our number one geopolitical foe, maybe we need to
00:25:59.920
play Russia off China, just as during the Cold War in the 1970s, we played China off of Russia.
00:26:05.320
It's highly contextual. It's strongly based on radical self-interest. And it has the underlying
00:26:10.980
premise that the system of nation states is more in American long-term strategic interest than a single
00:26:20.600
superpower, liberal world order led by the United States, liberal international empire.
00:26:27.660
That's the premise. And he will follow that to the radical self-interest of politicians and of the
00:26:33.340
United States. You can disagree with that, but that is a coherent foreign policy doctrine.
00:26:40.460
And if you don't think it's coherent, if you strongly disagree with it, you have to propose an
00:26:45.280
alternative. And when you propose an alternative, then you have to look not just at the successes,
00:26:50.000
but at the failures of that liberal internationalism, not just the great successes
00:26:53.600
of the Reagan era, but some of the failures that came afterward. We will get to domestic politics
00:26:59.780
where AOC and the squad endorsed Bernie Sanders. We'll even get to Kanye West family values and finally
00:27:04.640
the mailbag. But first I got to thank our friends over at Liquid IV. Oh, I love Liquid IV. Do you know
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00:29:01.700
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to hydrate properly. Go to dailywire.com. We'll be right back.
00:29:13.060
Big announcement in the presidential race. AOC plus three, AOC and the squad are endorsing
00:29:31.640
Senator Bernie Sanders for president. This makes a lot of sense. They are the socialists. They are
00:29:38.460
the hard leftists. Bernie Sanders is the OG socialist. He was around St. Petersburg when
00:29:43.400
he felt there was time for a change. I'm almost certain he knew Karl Marx personally, so he's
00:29:49.180
been around for a long time. They have endorsed him. That's a big pickup for Bernie Sanders. Tom
00:29:54.600
Perez, the head of the DNC, said that AOC is the future of the Democratic Party. If she's the future
00:30:00.340
of the Democratic Party, I guess Bernie Sanders is the future of the Democratic Party. I thought
00:30:04.540
Bernie Sanders was the future of the 19th century, but he's the future of the Democratic Party,
00:30:09.560
it would seem. It's a big win for him. It should help him in some of his lagging poll numbers against
00:30:13.960
Elizabeth Warren. The flip side of that news is freaking Joe Biden can't catch a break. He had
00:30:20.520
a terrible debate performance. He was falling apart, and Barack Obama won't endorse him. Now,
00:30:27.820
you might say, okay, Obama's just not making any endorsements this year. No, he endorsed Trudeau.
00:30:32.180
Barack Obama is endorsing Justin Blackface Trudeau, wore blackface pretty much every single day of his
00:30:40.200
life until he was 29. That's a slight exaggeration, but we've seen at least three occasions where he
00:30:45.620
did it. Barack Obama's endorsing that guy. By the way, Barack Obama's interfering in foreign elections.
00:30:52.280
Isn't that so awful when foreign governments collude and interfere in their elections? Oh,
00:30:57.320
no, hold on. Hold on. Never mind. That only matters when it's a fictitious storyline used to
00:31:02.780
attack President Trump in the 2016 election. Doesn't matter when Obama does it. So Obama's
00:31:07.620
interfering in this election, endorsing Justin Trudeau in Canada. Meanwhile, not a word about
00:31:12.920
poor Joe Biden. Bad news for Biden's campaign. Why is Obama really not endorsing? I think it's a
00:31:18.200
self-preservation thing. I think if he felt that Biden could win or would win, he would endorse him,
00:31:22.920
but he wants to be on the winning side. He doesn't want to be repudiated by voters as he was in 2016
00:31:28.200
with the election of Trump. In 2016, Obama said, I'm on the ballot. If you vote for Trump, you're
00:31:34.320
voting against me. And guess what happened? Trump won. And I think he doesn't want to be humiliated
00:31:37.880
again. And what it really means is he doesn't think that Biden is going to win it. A little shocking
00:31:43.980
bit that comes out just before we get to the mailbag today. Kanye West, a perplexing public
00:31:53.300
figure, leader of pop culture, who all of a sudden, he's one of the, he's played himself off as one of
00:31:59.720
the most narcissistic people in politics. He said George Bush doesn't care about black people, so he
00:32:03.980
made him a big leftist hero. Then Kanye West endorses Donald Trump, hugs him in the Oval Office. Kanye
00:32:09.520
West starts talking about Christianity very seriously, starts reading the Bible seriously,
00:32:14.060
makes an album now called Jesus is King. And Kanye West was caught on reality TV telling his wife,
00:32:22.420
Kim Kardashian, that she needs to dress more modestly because she's his wife and he loves her
00:32:26.340
and she's part of his soul. And when he does that, when she does that, it hurts his soul. I count myself
00:32:32.240
in the blessed few Americans who have never seen an episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashians,
00:32:36.180
but I might start watching is this clip is really, really good for the culture. Here's Kanye West.
00:32:41.720
You can now say that you're not into me wearing a tight dress. You are my wife and it affects me
00:32:46.800
when pictures are too sexy. Corset's like a form of underwear. It's hot. It's like, it's hot for a
00:32:51.900
booze. So like the night before the fact, you're going to come in here and say that you're not into a
00:32:58.540
corset bag. I just feel like I've just went through this transition where from being a rapper,
00:33:04.000
like looking at all these girls and looking at my wife, like, oh, my girl needs to be just like
00:33:08.900
the other girl showing a body off, showing this, showing that. And I didn't realize that that was
00:33:13.640
affecting like my soul and my spirit as someone that's married and loved and the father of like
00:33:19.700
now about to be four kids. Kim shut that down real quick. You built me up to be this like sexy
00:33:26.860
person and confidence and all this stuff. Yeah. And just because you're on a journey and you're on
00:33:30.760
your transformation doesn't mean that I'm in the right. I'm in the same spot with you.
00:33:35.540
This is a tremendous exchange. People are talking about Kanye West's new comments on politics and
00:33:43.220
culture and religion. They're speaking about it from a primarily racial perspective, like Blexit and
00:33:48.180
that kind of thing. That is legitimate. Sure. I think even more exemplary here is Kanye West as a
00:33:56.940
millennial, as a someone, someone who speaks to millennials and Gen Z and someone who's pretty
00:34:01.320
young himself. Kanye West is coming out of the same culture we all came out of, increasingly
00:34:08.760
irreligious, increasingly uncultured, increasingly shallow politically. And he is going through a
00:34:13.500
transformation because he is learning things and he's, he's learning things on every one of those
00:34:18.740
levels. He's learning, oh, hey, maybe the left isn't really helping the black community. Oh, maybe the
00:34:23.700
left isn't really helping anybody. Oh, hey, maybe these conservatives aren't so bad after all.
00:34:28.160
Hey, maybe Republicans do care about black people. He's learning that. And then he's learning on the
00:34:31.700
metaphysical level. Oh, maybe life isn't all materialistic. Maybe it's not all just about
00:34:36.120
appeasing appetites and it's not all about a cult of the self. Maybe there's a metaphysical universe and
00:34:40.820
a moral order. Maybe there's a God. Maybe that God has a personality. Maybe he's a real person that we can
00:34:46.760
talk to. Maybe my relationship with my wife is not just a kind of sexy, lustful relationship.
00:34:54.400
Maybe that relationship is emblematic of something higher. Maybe the relationship of Christ to his
00:34:59.060
church. Maybe I should privilege modesty over just this kind of material appetite satisfaction.
00:35:08.100
He says all of that to her. And then her answer is great too, because she said, you're going through
00:35:13.100
this transformation, but I'm not where you are necessarily. Maybe I'm a little behind where you
00:35:17.960
are. I love it. It's an interaction that the culture is working out right now. And Kanye West
00:35:23.480
is a little ahead of the curve because Kanye West has always been a little ahead of the curve on pop
00:35:28.080
culture. That's why he's probably the leading pop culture figure in the United States. I think this is
00:35:32.640
a great thing. And we can either react to it by knocking Kanye West for not really knowing
00:35:37.600
everything politically and not really knowing everything spiritually and getting some things wrong here and
00:35:42.540
there. Or we can react to it with encouragement because Kanye West is actually asking questions.
00:35:47.940
He's curious. He's following ideas with some logical rigor and he's leading people back from this
00:35:54.260
brink of cultural destruction, pulling them back a little bit. And we can either criticize him for not
00:36:00.000
doing it fast enough or well enough, or we can applaud him for doing it at all. I think it's a great
00:36:03.400
thing and I encourage Kanye on his journey. Let's get to the mailbag. First question from Megan.
00:36:07.620
Hey Michael, my question pertains to Pride Month and that pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins.
00:36:13.160
I was explaining your viewpoint to my mom, also patriot, and she said, well, what about being proud
00:36:17.420
to be an American? Is he saying that is negative? And I didn't know how to respond. Is there a way that
00:36:24.300
you would articulate a difference between being a normal level of proud and pride? Or do you consider
00:36:29.480
them the same thing? Pride is excessive love of one's own excellence. So there is a place at which
00:36:37.300
being proud to be an American gets bad. This would be chauvinism. The word chauvinism actually comes
00:36:43.340
from excessive love of country. It comes from this figure from the French Revolution, Nicolas Chauvin,
00:36:49.120
who was, you know, the every legend you could ever put into a heroic figure. And, you know,
00:36:56.360
a guy who would give everything up for his country. That's the personage of Nicolas Chauvin. And that
00:37:00.960
chauvinism is this excessive love of one's own excellence. That's not what most people mean,
00:37:06.280
though. When most people talk about being proud to be an American, what they're really talking about
00:37:10.660
is love of country and loyalty toward country. So that's a good thing. That's a virtue. I mean,
00:37:16.480
that's similar to filial piety. The love that you have for your parents is seen in the love that you
00:37:20.960
have for your country. And sometimes we use the word pride for that, but that's not really what we
00:37:25.540
mean. In the case of the pride parade, that's a totally different use of pride. That is the use of
00:37:31.800
pride as we see in the seven deadly sins. That is an excessive love of the self. How do I know that?
00:37:38.160
Because all the pride is, is about me, me, me, me, me. That, that, it's not even just gay pride now. It's
00:37:45.300
fat pride, skinny pride, this pride, that pride. It's all about this radical subjectivism. Whatever I want
00:37:52.840
to do is good. Whatever appetite I have should be satisfied. Whatever feeling I have must be affirmed.
00:38:00.640
Whatever, whatever pride, I mean, pride is the only word. I'm trying to think of another word for pride.
00:38:08.460
Whatever narcissistic tendencies I have must be affirmed. I am beautiful. I am wonderful. I am brave.
00:38:17.280
I have self-care. I have self-love. That's the form of pride. And that is pride in the sense of the
00:38:22.680
seven deadly sins. I actually don't even use the phrase, I'm proud to be an American. It's excusable
00:38:27.580
because it's alluding to something else. But those are, those are very different circumstances. And
00:38:33.680
if the pride parade were celebrating love and loyalty toward something objective, something outside the
00:38:41.440
self, something outside of one's own identity and outside of one's own desires, then I could
00:38:47.480
understand that. But until they get rid of that, uh, your truth and my truth and me, me, me, and
00:38:53.220
everything I do must be affirmed. Then pride is clearly in the vicious category, not in the category
00:38:58.480
of love and loyalty. From Aaron, Mr. Knowles, where do you think the left would be if Trump had not been
00:39:05.640
elected? Would the Democrats have pushed their agenda to the point where nearly all 2020 candidates are
00:39:10.700
socialists? How much is the left following their arguments to their logical conclusions? And how
00:39:14.640
much is Trump derangement syndrome? The left always gets radicalized during Republican presidencies.
00:39:21.620
This happened during the Bush presidency just as much. Uh, the, the, the left would be where they
00:39:29.780
are. The left would have moved further to the left. This is far bigger than the question of Trump. Does
00:39:34.100
Trump irritate them? He does. Does he push them a little bit? Sure. But this has been a trend since the
00:39:40.520
1960s when the conservative movement really came into fruition and moved the Republican party to
00:39:45.720
the right. And when the new left took over the democratic party and moved it to the left,
00:39:49.640
this has been going on for a long time. And in some ways it's to be applauded because it's people
00:39:53.620
following their ideas to their logical conclusions, or in the case of the left, their illogical
00:39:58.300
conclusions, which now denies reality itself, denies the reality of sex, denies the reality of the
00:40:03.920
constitution, denies, denies truth altogether. From Claire, who's your favorite monarch in history and why?
00:40:09.940
Oh, what a difficult question. I would say Charles Martel, Charles Martel, who beat back the invading
00:40:17.860
Muslims at the battle of Tours and saved Western civilization, but he technically wasn't a king.
00:40:23.380
So I'll take him off the table. If I had to choose my favorite monarch in history, at least in recent
00:40:28.360
history, I would have to choose Prince Joseph Wenzel, who is the heir to the house of Wittelsbach. Now
00:40:36.140
you hear that he's a prince, but I say he's a king because he's the rightful heir to the throne of
00:40:41.640
England through the Jacobite line of succession. James II, the last great king of England, was ousted by
00:40:47.360
those damn dirty house of commons. He was ousted by the parliament. And then those Dutch interlopers,
00:40:55.200
William and Mary of Orange, came on over and began that illegitimate line in England. And this was almost
00:41:01.860
rectified through the Jacobite risings and Bonnie Prince Charlie coming from France to Scotland. He
00:41:06.660
was a little foppish though. Didn't work out that well. So currently the legitimate king of England
00:41:11.680
is Franz the Archduke of, Franz the Duke of Bavaria. I think he's Archduke or Duke, one of those two.
00:41:17.520
And that would pass to his brother Max because Max is, because Franz doesn't have any kids. So it
00:41:23.000
passed to Max. Max has a daughter named Sophia. And then finally we get to Prince Joseph Wenzel,
00:41:27.860
our future glorious king of England. Aren't you sorry you asked? From Amy,
00:41:33.460
based on the current political climate, which democratic candidate do you think will take
00:41:38.100
the nomination? I think right now the leading candidate in the democratic race is either
00:41:44.940
Oprah or Michelle Obama or possibly Hillary Clinton. What do I mean by that? There was this
00:41:49.620
poll that came out just the other day from the Boston Herald. It said that right now Elizabeth Warren
00:41:53.920
is leading in New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a very important early state. Liz Warren,
00:41:57.860
has something like 25% and then Bernie and Biden have 24 and 23%. However, if Michelle Obama gets
00:42:05.060
into the race, Michelle would have 26%. Warren would have 20%. The other candidates would be down
00:42:10.780
around 15. What this shows is that the Democrats are unsatisfied with their current choices for
00:42:15.640
president. This is why Mike Bloomberg is considering running. This is why Michelle Obama has been floated
00:42:20.100
so many times. There is no clear front runner right now. Technically, if you look at the polls,
00:42:25.060
it's Elizabeth Warren. She is an incredibly weak front runner. Biden is not actually out of it yet.
00:42:31.320
His campaign is completely falling apart, but he's still got a chance that he could get it.
00:42:38.520
Do you believe leftists are genuinely immoral or do you believe they are amoral? Thank you to everyone
00:42:44.680
at the Daily Wire for the messages you send in making a difference in people's lives. Depends on
00:42:48.420
the leftist. I think plenty of conservatives are immoral too. If you're asking about the ideology,
00:42:53.000
the ideology is immoral because in the long run, there's no such thing as amorality. You have to pick
00:43:01.500
aside. If you stand in the middle of the road, you're going to get hit by a truck. You're either
00:43:04.760
with us or against us. Leftism is an ideology that stokes envy. Socialism is the gospel of envy and the
00:43:16.960
creed of ignorance, as Winston Churchill said. It stokes envy. It celebrates pride. It encourages wrath.
00:43:23.540
It discourages forgiveness and redemption and grace. It encourages lusts and following one's
00:43:31.740
own appetites. It encourages gluttony. I mean, you actually can check off all of the seven deadly sins.
00:43:36.700
Those are encouraged by leftism. So it is an immoral ideology. I gave a speech about that at
00:43:41.320
YAF one time. I think you can find it somewhere on YouTube. Does that mean leftists are immoral? No,
00:43:46.340
I think they could just be kind of ignorant of what they're doing or going along with the culture.
00:43:50.100
It's a very tempting ideology. I would have considered myself a liberal for parts of my
00:43:53.780
teenage years. So I have nothing but compassion and empathy for leftists, but they are following
00:43:59.780
an immoral ideology. And ultimately, if the moral argument doesn't convince you to abandon it,
00:44:07.100
I would just look at the self-interested argument. Nobody benefits from following those vices down to
00:44:12.420
the bottom. Nobody benefits from living in a culture of wrath and misery where you think half your
00:44:16.580
countrymen are deplorable and irredeemable. That's a misery making recipe. So I would suggest
00:44:23.380
in self-interest, at least, they abandon that. And also they'll enjoy living in a more morally
00:44:31.320
coherent lifestyle. Last question. Michael, I saw your interview with Peter Benjamin about
00:44:37.580
transgender regret, and I must say bravo to you and to him for a very insightful conversation.
00:44:42.500
My question is, what do you think is the best approach as a parent if you have a young child
00:44:46.600
who is confused, even if you have not promoted these ideals in the home? Such a good question.
00:44:52.440
As I hope that interview with Peter Benjamin brought out or displayed,
00:45:01.360
transgenderism, meaning gender confusion, gender dysphoria, is a real phenomenon. It's a real
00:45:06.800
psychological phenomenon. And it's a serious struggle for people who have a 40% suicide rate.
00:45:12.500
The 40% suicide rate is not society's fault. It's not the fault of some ideology. It's the fault of
00:45:18.160
the psychiatric condition that affects, some estimates say 0.2, some estimates say 0.6% of
00:45:23.260
people. So you have to address this if your child is experiencing this, for instance, as you would
00:45:30.260
any other psychiatric condition, as you would any other health condition, because it can be very
00:45:34.980
serious. You shouldn't just dismiss it or shove it off and say, oh, well, you're really a boy.
00:45:38.920
Don't worry about it. You should take them seriously. Also, just like any other health
00:45:44.660
condition or like any other psychiatric condition, you shouldn't indulge fantasy. The leftist premise,
00:45:49.440
when the left, and they do this constantly in the press, and it's not fair, but that's life,
00:45:54.080
they call me and Shapiro and every other person who doesn't indulge fantasy, transphobes,
00:45:59.500
hateful people who hate those suffering from gender dysphoria. Let me make myself perfectly clear.
00:46:05.680
I believe that I take gender dysphoria much, much, much more seriously than anybody pushing this
00:46:14.000
absolutely wicked transgender ideology. I think that their premise is fundamentally wrong. The
00:46:22.520
premise of the left is that fantasy is good and reality is bad. And if you live according to reality,
00:46:29.460
that you are somehow cruel and wicked. And if you just look at the analogy on other mental health
00:46:35.960
conditions, it would be like telling a schizophrenic that really the voices from the
00:46:39.840
walls are talking to him and he really should follow their dictates. It is so profoundly patronizing
00:46:47.080
and condescending and contrary to human flourishing. The people who indulge transgender ideology per se
00:46:55.160
are committing a very serious wrong. They are committing a sin and they should stop doing it
00:47:00.880
because it is hurting people and it is in no way compassionate. That's what we see from transgender
00:47:05.580
regret. Also, you should take this condition seriously and you should try to get your child any help that
00:47:13.040
they can and you should try to tell them that reality is reality and you should also use the tools
00:47:18.400
that modern medicine has available to us and modern psychiatry and, of course, the church, of course,
00:47:25.540
spiritual discussions as well. That would be my recommendation for a coherent and compassionate
00:47:31.640
way to address transgenderism and not the shallow, condescending, patronizing nonsense of those who
00:47:38.200
would indulge fantasy and gender ideology. That's our show. I'm Michael Knowles and I will be back
00:47:43.880
next week. So I hope you have a good weekend. This is the Michael Knowles Show.
00:47:48.400
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Also, be sure to check out the other Daily Wire podcasts, including The Ben Shapiro Show,
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The Michael Knowles Show is produced by Rebecca Dobkowitz and directed by Mike Joyner.
00:48:20.760
Executive producer, Jeremy Boring. Senior producer, Jonathan Hay. Our supervising producer
00:48:25.620
is Mathis Glover. And our technical producer is Austin Stevens. Assistant director, Pavel Wydowski.
00:48:32.140
Edited by Danny D'Amico. Audio is mixed by Mike Coromina. Hair and makeup is by Jesua Olvera.
00:48:37.940
And our production assistant is Nick Sheehan. The Michael Knowles Show is a Daily Wire production.
00:48:42.560
Copyright Daily Wire 2019. On The Matt Walsh Show, we're not just discussing politics. We're
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talking culture, faith, family, all of the things that are really important to you. So come join the
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