The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - FREEMIUM： Brokenomics ｜ Sex, Feminism & the Death of Civilisation debate

00:00:00.260 Hello and welcome to Brokernomics. Now in this fantastic episode I'm joined by three superlative

00:00:06.500 guests. I've got the very good Ed Dutton, also known as a jolly helitick, a professor of evolutionary

00:00:13.280 anthropology and always excellent guest on Lotus Eaters. We're also very happy to be joined by his

00:00:21.460 co-author on many a book, J-O-A Rainer Hills, who has contributed significantly to the body of work

00:00:30.680 but not often been on a big show so we are absolutely delighted to be breaking in him here.

00:00:35.960 I hope he enjoys the experience and also of course Dr Danny who you remember just a few episodes back

00:00:43.160 who was very very good indeed. Lots of positive audience feedback and I had to make the face of

00:00:49.440 all yes you're right at multiple times during that and was very entertaining indeed so this is all

00:00:56.240 very good. Right so basically here's our opening frame. The West is in decline definitely politically,

00:01:04.000 culturally and quite possibly even biologically and often it seems not only forced on us but

00:01:11.620 actually chosen and so we're kind of here to ask the question is are the left's destructive tendencies

00:01:18.460 perhaps they're not just ideological but what if they're what if they're biological you know what

00:01:24.100 what if what if the collapse of Western civilization basically comes down to hormones and mating strategy

00:01:32.000 so we're going to try and figure that out. Now the general point I would make here is I stand

00:01:39.220 ready with my barrel of pork chops to throw into the piranha pit with various questions every time I

00:01:44.660 detect a lull or pause however there are three people on this call who know what they're talking

00:01:50.200 about and I'm not one of them so if you guys need to you know just just just ask each other your own

00:01:56.620 questions go off on tangents and I don't speak again for the rest of the entire thing I'm perfectly

00:02:01.160 happy with that but but nevertheless we we need the first pork chop to get us going so I'm going to

00:02:07.740 throw into the pit um is the left's uh destructive tendencies is is it a glitch uh or is it a feature

00:02:14.480 whoever wants to grab that chop and take the first bite um please do so now but do you want me to

00:02:20.700 summarize to your to your viewers what the actual model is and then yes so the the the basic idea is

00:02:28.800 that um I'll be trying to be as quick as I can but we were under under that we were under half

00:02:32.980 Darwinian selection until the Dutch revolution about 1800 there was 50 percent child mortality

00:02:37.820 uh or a bit less than that uh and you know we were we were we were the population was being purged

00:02:44.060 every generation of deleterious uh mental and physical mutations and what we were selecting for

00:02:50.120 it seems was not just intelligence um but also certain psychological traits to be for example group

00:02:58.100 oriented because then the more group oriented group wins the battle of sort of group selection

00:03:02.840 um to be uh pro-social as in as individuals um to be conservative and to be religious

00:03:11.540 and all of these factors have a significant heritability and they are all kind of co-correlated

00:03:17.560 into it or a playotropically related into a kind of fitness factor uh and so this means that's what we

00:03:24.680 were that's what we were at the dawn of the industrial revolution we were people that were

00:03:29.140 uh uh conservative which in terms of these moral foundations we all have means that you're high

00:03:34.080 in the group oriented foundations of in-group loyalty of obedience to authority and of purity

00:03:39.200 and also you're reasonably high in the individually oriented foundations of equality and harm of

00:03:44.600 wins um the left by the way tend to be only concerned about the individually oriented foundations

00:03:51.100 with the with the collapse of uh child mortality from about 40 percent down to one percent of course

00:03:56.800 you get a huge bill of mutation um this is going to be probably although there's going to be exceptions

00:04:01.540 to this um in the direction of being anti-conservative of being anti-group oriented of being leftist of being

00:04:09.100 irreligious all of these traits are associated with poor genetic health so essentially we are becoming

00:04:15.700 genetically sicker and sicker and sicker and thus to some extent there's all kinds of nuances we can get

00:04:21.600 into but more uh left wing if this goes on forever we become so deracinated we're all so sick

00:04:28.500 we're all so utterly sick that we just die out when the next dream hancock meteorite hits and wipes out

00:04:33.660 civilization everybody that's on the grid is knocked out and we're remembered as gods by the people on the

00:04:39.040 anderman islands everyone's everyone's destroyed so um what would be good is if something hit in

00:04:45.080 to stop that something hit in to reverse that that would be very useful and what we suggest in the

00:04:52.200 book woke eugenics is that is wokeness because what eventually a tipping point is reached wokeness um

00:04:58.880 then takes over the culture um and it starts pushing us in a maladaptive direction it tells us to do

00:05:05.740 uh maladaptive things which means that you won't pass on your genes uh so it tells us to you know be like

00:05:12.280 the opposite sex it tells encourages women to be infertile uh it uh it encourages people to be fat

00:05:18.620 it encourages people to have abortions which tend to be taken up by those that are psychopathic

00:05:22.720 basically individualistic it encourages euthanasia it encourages the collapse of civilization so nothing

00:05:27.860 works if you're ill you can't get cured of things it encourages transsexuality i could go on and the

00:05:33.660 people that won't be sucked into that death cult will be those that are genetically resistant to it i.e those

00:05:38.100 that are conservative those that are religious those that are uh of the kind to some extent that

00:05:43.620 would be there uh before the industrial revolution i mean i'm trying i'm simplifying as much as i can

00:05:48.860 but therefore those people are resistant to it everybody else dies out and we go back to being

00:05:54.300 uh genetically healthy once again and thus as a subgroup we we can survive um that's that's uh that

00:06:01.820 and so then we we carry on that's that's pretty much it so i'm keen to hear danny's response to

00:06:08.720 this but but i do have one short question to interject which is if wokeness is a form of

00:06:14.120 mutational load why is it most prevalent amongst the elites because you you by definition you should

00:06:20.100 expect the elites to be the most fitted and adapted to any system because intelligence is intelligence is

00:06:27.340 a marker of low mutational load but it's only a weak one so there are other there are other dimensions

00:06:33.660 to intelligence and one of those is social conformity uh and that you look around the world

00:06:39.320 and you notice the the way things are and you force yourself by effortful control to conform to it

00:06:45.580 and then you competitively signal your conformity to it to attain social status um and so this is uh this

00:06:52.460 is i think why there is this weird uh contradiction whereby you would intelligence is part of this

00:06:57.500 fitness factor and intelligence is associated um with health uh at the genetic level the genes that

00:07:04.720 are associated with intelligence are associated with health health heart like low heart disease

00:07:09.980 things like that uh but they're also associated with conformity it makes you conformist um and and and

00:07:16.460 and this helps you to be in the elite but maybe ollie would like to to to uh add some uh nuance to

00:07:22.700 what i've said no i would just say yes the wokeness is um sort of mutational load characterized by higher

00:07:29.500 intelligence and perhaps some often somewhat psychopathic uh machiavellian person at dark trap

00:07:35.500 personality which is why it's different from just your ordinary you know sickly possibly quite stupid

00:07:40.940 person you see who's not really capable of engaging in high-level politics and manipulation

00:07:45.260 you know you know society and so forth i see could we could we begin dr danny to get a uh a framing of

00:07:54.700 this so i think i think we have a lot of points of agreement here so i think we both agree so with

00:08:02.060 respect to the original question is this a glitch or is it a feature i think we've all agreed that this

00:08:06.620 is actually a feature this is not what what we're seeing happening here is happening because of some

00:08:12.700 sort of mechanism that has been selected for it is not some um mistake um it's not a glitch so i think

00:08:19.900 we agree on that i think we agree about the collapse of child mortality being key and i think we agree um

00:08:31.020 with with the notion that woke is effectively a sort of purging function i haven't i haven't described it

00:08:36.620 like that that is consistent with um with what i have described so i think we actually have a lot

00:08:42.940 of points in common here where we agree where we disagree i think is on the the mechanism the specific

00:08:50.300 selection pressures that are rising and what's actually happening here and why so we've got a lot

00:08:56.780 of points of agreement so i hope it's not sort of too nuanced to a discussion about the disagreements

00:09:01.900 um i guess the first thing i think that i probably would disagree with we have down so there was a

00:09:10.140 lot less selection pressure as a result of child mortality but what it was replaced with almost

00:09:17.020 immediately is tremendous selection pressure from differential reproduction so we went from having a

00:09:23.580 lot of people whose kids were dying and thereby their genes were not getting passed on um when

00:09:29.740 different when that went down when child mortality went down one of the first things that went down

00:09:34.540 very shortly after it um was was child birth rate and what that meant is that not only did the average

00:09:42.140 birth rate go down but the absolute number of individuals who are not having any children at all

00:09:47.580 went up so what we saw was a shift in the source of selection pressure it's not that we say no selection

00:09:53.660 pressure is when everybody in the population is reproducing with approximately equal frequency

00:10:00.700 um the sort of levels of different genes is staying around about the same everybody's reproducing the

00:10:05.740 same now that's what you sort of call weak selection pressure right it just sort of stays the same and in

00:10:10.540 absence sort of genetic drift you don't get you don't get much happening um however when you've got

00:10:15.020 really differential um reproduction then you still have a lot of individuals whose genes are not getting

00:10:20.300 passed on to the next generation and of course what we're seeing now if we fast forward a few more

00:10:24.780 decades to now we're reaching a point i think someone will correct me for not being quite right

00:10:29.900 but is it half of women who who they estimate in you know in a not very long period of time will

00:10:36.060 will have reached their reproductive the end of their reproductive window without actually

00:10:40.060 reproducing so we're certainly still seeing tremendous selection pressure but the source of that

00:10:44.380 selection pressure is now different it is no longer primarily or maybe it was ever primarily child

00:10:49.020 mortality but but it has been reduced in the form of child mortality and it has been increased in the

00:10:53.820 form of differential reproduction so we still have a lot of selection pressure and that's kind of key

00:10:59.500 to my theory of what woke effectively is so i'll try to summarize it as quickly as i can but a bit like ed

00:11:08.620 i feel like that's a it's a challenge to get it out in a short space of time what i think it is is

00:11:13.180 effectively effectively manipulative female reproductive suppression once we started having

00:11:20.220 all of these babies surviving um and selection pressure was sort of somewhat relaxed we see a

00:11:27.340 massive increase in female manipulative reproductive suppression where you start to see people having

00:11:32.620 fewer and fewer babies and what we see with work exactly as ed explained every aspect of work is

00:11:39.420 reproductively limiting every aspect of woke is at least that i can think of is anti-natal there

00:11:47.180 there isn't anything that is pronatal about woke um it's all anti-natal and the reason why in in my

00:11:53.740 view that it's all anti-natal is because it is all a manifestation of manipulative female reproductive

00:12:00.060 suppression driven by a whole bunch of things once you're no longer losing as a as a population once you're no

00:12:06.940 longer losing a whole bunch of children to to some high levels of childhood mortality there is perhaps

00:12:14.460 room for these other mechanisms to start playing out without actually being sort of you know the

00:12:19.740 the population on the whole shooting itself in the foot um because you now have a lot more potential

00:12:25.580 babies that you can start really suppressing that that reproduction um we also know that this decline in

00:12:32.220 birth rate corresponds very um closely to an increase in the gdp of a society so as soon as

00:12:39.180 you've got wealth and something that looks remotely like excess resources we see birth rates begin to

00:12:45.580 plummet and of course that's because wealth and excess resources are very closely related to this decline

00:12:50.380 in childhood mortality in the first place so these things are all clustering together and so my argument

00:12:56.300 is that what's happening on a sort of broad civilizational or societal level is we've got

00:13:02.940 woke is a manifestation of female reproductive manipulative reproductive suppression women

00:13:08.460 primarily elite women which is why um but for your question earlier why is it primarily amongst the elite

00:13:15.180 because it is the elite who get to set the social rules so it's the elite who are deciding what it is

00:13:21.420 that we are going to be allowed and not allowed to do especially among women which of course is why

00:13:26.060 endorsement for work ideals is also much stronger amongst women than amongst men because this is

00:13:31.020 female manipulative reproductive suppression it's not male reproductive suppression it's women

00:13:35.820 just for the lay person if i'm understanding your argument correctly you're saying that about the

00:13:40.140 same time that child mortality dropped significantly the introduction of contraception and the pill and

00:13:45.100 abortions and all that kind of thing basically added a new selective pressure and we should imagine

00:13:49.660 that women are more likely to let through the better genes um when they have the ability to be

00:13:56.300 selective that's one aspect of it but then you're also pointing out um a question which i have which is

00:14:01.660 so so are women sabotaging society or just other women or is it a distinction without a difference

00:14:09.100 uh oh good question so um it's sort of a distinction without a difference potentially because what's

00:14:15.260 happening is you get selection at the level of the individual so you get women sabotaging other women

00:14:21.900 but that invariably if it becomes to reaches sort of excessively high levels which it has at the

00:14:27.340 moment is my argument so my birth rates are in fact so low because manipulative reproductive suppression is

00:14:33.100 so high um when you get that what effectively that does is it changes the the society that you're living in

00:14:40.220 and so that changes the social environment and that in itself acts as a cue to um to this type

00:14:47.260 of of reproductive suppression so it's like this flow-on effect so yes you get lower women per

00:14:52.220 children and that's kind of an individual effect but the result of that is the society changes drastically

00:14:58.460 as a result of having far fewer babies um and you get a whole bunch of other things that go along

00:15:03.500 with woke it isn't just the low babies you see a whole bunch of things that suggest this is a society

00:15:08.540 that is entering a sort of capitulation a sort of um surrender if you like to this effect so we

00:15:16.380 see men being much more like much less likely i'm sorry to want to join the armed forces we see a lot

00:15:22.220 less of um especially amongst the left a lot less in-group bias so there's that very famous um graph

00:15:29.660 that's been spread around twitter perhaps more than any other showing that the left's in-group bias

00:15:34.780 spreads so much wider than what you see on the right so where whether you want to call that at

00:15:39.900 the societal level the national level or whatever it might be you know this in-group bias protected

00:15:45.580 coherent societies and it's dropping away as well so we're seeing empathy being extended to out groups

00:15:51.660 sometimes actually in favor of in-groups and that's very much woke as well woke is very much about you

00:15:58.540 know we can sort of see that in i guess perhaps the israel palestine um sort of uh a situation at

00:16:05.500 the moment where the woke left is very much the the pro-palestine crowd and they are much more of

00:16:12.060 an out group in terms of values belief systems everything than israel who are not just our political

00:16:18.700 allies but are also very much more socially close to us in terms of values and social organizations and

00:16:23.900 whatnot um to the rest of the west so what i think is happening is it's not just that women are going

00:16:31.020 to destroy society and then it's gone it's going to collapse and it's going to be gone i think the

00:16:36.380 the sort of dismantling of society and the fact that we can see so many other parts of society

00:16:41.340 responding to this situation almost as though it is a kind of auto self-shutdown someone has pressed a

00:16:46.700 button and the rest of society is beginning to pack up and go home um you know we're not seeing

00:16:54.540 parts of society you know fighting against this we are seeing the institutions capitulating to it not

00:16:58.940 not resisting it not not attempting to save society and the reason for that is because i think the end

00:17:03.820 game of this female manipulative reproductive suppression is to arrive at a very very small

00:17:09.420 bottleneck of a population that will ultimately be invaded and taken over by a new population a new

00:17:17.900 society but that bottleneck will then become part of the new society that comes in and expands and

00:17:24.700 explodes so the women who are if i'm right the women who are winning this game are the women who are

00:17:32.700 pushing these ideologies imposing them on other women by virtue of their elite status and their

00:17:39.420 influence but who are themselves not actually adhering to these ideologies so you need to

00:17:44.940 the work women who are having children because these are the women who are driving this social change

00:17:51.420 but they are not susceptible exactly this is what this is what i so yes we are women like adam brotherford

00:17:57.980 so women like adam brotherford they say you know they they advocate all this woke stuff uh but yet they

00:18:03.260 they have children themselves and and um i don't think i i think it's very it's a very i think you're

00:18:09.580 probably right i don't i don't think you're right about the idea that the bottleneck um populations

00:18:14.620 sort of submerges into the the foreign population that invades i'm not sure about that but i think i

00:18:19.420 think it's broadly correct and i don't really see any contradict i don't see that much of a contradiction

00:18:23.660 and maybe ollie disagrees but between what we're arguing in woke eugenics and what you're arguing i mean

00:18:29.500 when i i went through all of the different things that woke eugenics promotes uh for example it

00:18:34.700 promotes uh miscegenation and uh that tends to be taken up by fast life issue strategists uh which

00:18:41.420 which weakly correlates with low iq so this means that people that have low intelligence which

00:18:45.580 associates with poor health are out of the native population it promotes the collapse of the population

00:18:52.300 so people are basically wiped out because they they can't they don't have access to hospitals and

00:18:56.700 medicines anymore and there are things that are the next level from that so one of the things it

00:19:02.300 basically promotes it causes the high intelligence europeans among high if you control for iq the key

00:19:09.100 predictors of breeding which are uh about 0.4 to 0.6 heritable are conservatism uh and and religiosity

00:19:16.860 so we're creating via this process of wokeness of a european population that is left that could break

00:19:24.060 away uh and form its own little neo-byzantium um that is reasonably intelligent and and that is highly

00:19:31.180 conservative and and highly religious and presumably would fight back against any invasion that might

00:19:37.340 occur from outside in a way that the current population as you say men don't want to fight for

00:19:41.980 their country or whatever wouldn't and i would think that that would that is a reflection in part of um of

00:19:48.460 dysgenics of what you see when men should be men manly females should be feminine if if the if the

00:19:55.340 selection pressures break down then you're going to get women becoming masculine and men becoming

00:20:00.060 feminine but in part for genetic reasons as well as an environment which which encourages them to do

00:20:05.340 that and the environment is the the next step along so one of the things that it does this whole

00:20:09.820 system that we have of saying people who are white you should be guilty to be for being white and you

00:20:14.620 should feel awful about it um is you either become depressed and accept that and and feel awful and

00:20:20.060 don't have children or you react strongly against it and it creates it forces it all the comparison

00:20:26.300 ollie made in the budapest speech was to fundamentalism it forces us those of us that reject it to be

00:20:31.900 fundamentalists and to feel that we're quite separate and that we're not of the world and then we create

00:20:37.740 very strong bonds with other fellow travelers which interestingly means we're more likely to have sex with those

00:20:42.540 fellow travelers fellow travelers and create congenitally conservative children in a way that perhaps

00:20:46.700 wasn't previously the case and so it has this this this this effect at the next level uh of certain

00:20:53.020 kinds of behavior which are not directly connected to um genetics or whatever but they're connected to

00:20:58.540 the culture and what the culture forces the woke culture forces polarization and forces the

00:21:03.820 subsection of people to become more conservative even more conservative and even more right-wing and

00:21:09.340 it seems to me you could argue that um this process of dysgenics and there's a lot of studies

00:21:15.660 indicating that uh left-wing people are higher in rotational low than right-wing people and left-wing

00:21:19.980 women are uglier and the spaces are less symmetrical and whatever um so what this is going to lead to then

00:21:27.900 is it could be a partly genetic thing but women are behaving in these much more machiavellian uh

00:21:34.780 uh narcissistic uh individualistic ways um such that they want to destroy the prospects of other women

00:21:45.420 and so part of the motivation for women to be more woke than men is not just that women are more

00:21:50.380 socially anxious and more socially conformist um and and and you know are programmed to be like that

00:21:57.340 uh but is also in some cases if you look at joyce benenson's book warriors and warriors

00:22:01.660 um it's this this fascinating idea that you'll get women that won't even consciously understand that

00:22:08.940 they're ambitious but yet somehow those women will act in such a way that they get the best man

00:22:17.180 um not that they won't even they won't even almost they won't even know about it that's how important

00:22:21.980 it is to come across as equal and humble and a good girl and all this and i think that there's there's no

00:22:27.420 reason to to to separate your model your model i think makes sense in terms of our model it's just

00:22:33.180 the next the next level you're going to get women that are congenitally more machiavellian more

00:22:37.260 individualistic more selfish and want to get the best men um wokeness will be attractive to them as

00:22:43.740 women because it promotes equality and harm avoidance which women are more into than men if you look at the

00:22:49.020 literature of across 67 countries there was a study on this even in right-wing countries women are more

00:22:53.660 into the promotion of equality and harm avoidance and purity than than men um and and so you're going

00:22:59.900 to get these kind of these kind of individualistic women that will behave like this and then brilliantly

00:23:06.300 they don't practice what they preach and they they don't have and they and they have children

00:23:10.700 while most of the women that perhaps the the the more naive ones maybe the ones that are uh whatever

00:23:16.540 i don't know what the difference would be uh the more mutation the more mutated ones even um uh then don't

00:23:22.540 have children at all i think you get a similar thing with black lives matter you got my friend

00:23:26.860 uh my colleague lipton matthews made the point um on a show we did a while ago that so you get black

00:23:33.020 people telling other black people there's no point being ambitious there's no point trying you're in a

00:23:38.860 racist society white he's always going to get you but yet the people that say that they're ambitious

00:23:45.260 and they get somewhere so they're eliminating the black competition and uh and you could argue that

00:23:53.020 this is exactly that paper i think it's an excellent paper i'm sorry to be obsequious but it's it's such

00:23:58.220 an important paper that you did but i always thought i remember when i was about um 14 or 13 or something

00:24:05.340 and my mum went and got a haircut short i mean my dad reacted like what the bloody hell have you done to

00:24:13.500 yourself you look ghastly and she and my mum was an art teacher and at the school probably the

00:24:20.700 majority of teachers were women and of course all her women friends say oh you do look good oh i do

00:24:25.100 love your haircut oh it looks so nice and of course they were because they're encouraging another woman

00:24:31.020 who is a sexual competitor to make herself look ugly i i can think of an even worse example of that ed

00:24:38.380 jenna ortega um one of the most attractive women on the planet has recently had this

00:24:42.780 bico fat reduction thing she looks like she actually looks like a ghoul at this point

00:24:47.900 and every man on twitter is like somebody should be jailed for this and i can't believe it wasn't

00:24:54.700 another woman who told her yeah you should definitely do that oh of course it was because as uh as danny

00:25:00.780 showed in her in her in her paper and i would argue seminal paper uh that that's what women do

00:25:06.700 that they're subtle about it they're clever about it i mean if ollie turned up here today and looked like

00:25:11.580 an ugly bastard i'd say so you know he doesn't he looks he looks quite good he seems to have a

00:25:16.060 suntan which is very rare for him um but but but but in all the time i've known him he's had he's had

00:25:21.100 incredibly pallid skin but he's been he's been abroad you know um and and and where whereas i'm sure if

00:25:27.260 if i if uh that's how women do it they they subtly cause other women so i but the point is that i think

00:25:33.260 that the um i don't see that there's a contradiction i think that that that element of female behavior

00:25:40.940 is simply a step removed from the broader model it's it doesn't need to be a rival model it's

00:25:45.900 congress with the it's congress with the model and it's and indeed if women are doing it more now than

00:25:51.580 they used to i don't know we'd have to look at evidence for that but if they are then um of course

00:25:58.060 it would be congress perhaps with subtle changes in the genetics of females that have made them more

00:26:02.860 machiavellian i mean basically what we'd expect is a movement back we've we've evolved over a very long

00:26:10.460 time to be have harms to be to be polygamous mating systems um and this is still in us it's still deep

00:26:18.060 in us and it's still deep in women to be evolved to a system of polygamous mating systems and and perhaps

00:26:23.500 we have moved away from that as we in europe have become more k-strategic which which which

00:26:28.940 militates in favor of a smaller number of wives a smaller number of children um less being adapted

00:26:35.580 to a harem and you'd move back then as you became as as uh selection pressures collapsed you'd expect

00:26:42.300 people to become more in some ways in some ways more kind of faster strategic uh more in the way of

00:26:48.380 harems less investment um and this would be reflected in these women but i don't know maybe ollie

00:26:53.260 what do you think oh yes i think um i i wonder actually if it's just a principle of mutational

00:26:59.180 load that when something goes wrong you aggress back to an older system of behavior older phenotypes

00:27:04.620 um so the newest parts of our uh uh the newest adaptations we have are the ones that seem to be

00:27:10.460 the most fragile principle of genetic fragility because genes are highly duplicated for example our

00:27:16.060 knees there's very recently evolved the way to so we could stand up and so it's easy to contract knee

00:27:21.900 problems and we have knee problems i suppose do people start walking a bit more like the apes

00:27:27.180 that preceded us it's just a quaint example of what i think goes off in the mind where of course

00:27:31.260 most of the new adaptations really are so i just wonder about that um so seriously it's interesting

00:27:37.420 so so as a as a lay person trying to follow this um i i get that it's destructive on the on the short

00:27:43.260 term but i'm but following your your conversation i'm wondering is is this manifestation of um you

00:27:52.140 know female emancipation and wokeness is it going to be um a civilizational autoimmune or just

00:27:58.860 civilizational entropy i mean what what how does this actually play out dr danny so so what i think is i

00:28:07.020 i suspect and this is one of the things i'm trying to look into now but i don't know enough about

00:28:11.900 history which is my one of my many weaknesses um but i think this is cyclical i don't think that

00:28:17.340 and this is where maybe i differ a little bit um i agree with ed i actually think that there are

00:28:22.460 tremendous differences between what we're both proposing and i think probably i'm a little bit

00:28:27.420 less inclined towards there needing to be i guess that's one point of difference that we could possibly

00:28:32.540 identify because he's right there's a lot of overlap here but in trying to sort of clarify

00:28:36.460 i guess i don't necessarily see the importance of there being this dysgenic build-up because the

00:28:42.380 way i see it what's triggering this to happen this kind of system of you know sort of out of control

00:28:48.460 reproductive suppression birth rate decline and an effective societal self-shutdown is actually what

00:28:55.020 triggers that is actually this increase in excessive wealth any wealth that is not you know that is a

00:29:01.980 substantial increase in a fast time appears to trigger this certainly that seems to be the

00:29:07.500 story from looking at the you know looking sort of across countries at where do we start you know

00:29:12.460 where is it that we can start to identify this demographic shift what actually happens immediately

00:29:18.060 prior to you know death rate decline birth rate decline blah blah blah um if you if sorry to interrupt if

00:29:25.820 you if you look at this isn't the first i think you're right this is cyclical this is cyclical

00:29:31.020 because it's the it's the cycle of civilization and the cycle of civilization seems to be something

00:29:36.220 like we're under harsh darwinian conditions we select for intelligence we become more and more

00:29:40.540 intelligent it gets a bit warmer uh this allows us to we're less up against it we can think straight

00:29:47.260 we can start experimenting and thus the intelligence that's been selected for becomes manifest becomes

00:29:52.540 expressed um in in in in civilization um in and wealth um and lower perhaps slightly lower child

00:30:01.500 mortality and whatever as as seen in the roman warm period to give an example or indeed the greek warm

00:30:07.180 period which we forget was preceded by a cold period in the dark age of 800 years after or whatever after

00:30:13.100 the late bronze age collapse and they note if you look at pasha globs book the fate of empires

00:30:18.940 um it's it's noted in each case that you get the same kind of stuff you get the rise in basically

00:30:25.020 proto-feminism i mean women becoming judges in baghdad things like this um um you you get uh uh

00:30:32.300 women refusing to get married women refusing to veil in athens all this sort of stuff um you get a rise in

00:30:37.740 homosexuality which may in part be a reflection of dysgenics um you get a rise in people just less

00:30:44.380 uh ethnocentric and so you get a rise in multiculturalism they're more materialistic

00:30:49.100 um they're more interested in sex they become basically more instinctive um which um which

00:30:55.820 can't be due to the environment because the environment would militate in favor of being less

00:31:01.260 instinctive uh because you're in an evolutionary mismatch one of the things that they get

00:31:05.900 thinking about that what do you mean by that well you're you're i mean that your um cognitive biases

00:31:12.300 tend to be elicited under under stress and in particular things like mortality salience they

00:31:17.500 tend to elicit certain cognitive biases um such as ethnocentrism for example or religiosity

00:31:23.980 so so the the and these things tend to go down in these circumstances in these situations because

00:31:28.700 people are basically less subject to mortality salience and then among the more intelligent and

00:31:33.980 there's some evidence that intelligent people are more environmentally sensitive they're more

00:31:38.300 environmentally plastic uh they're less hardware more software uh then in every civilization it's

00:31:45.020 noted that the more the higher classes are either more intelligent stop having children and then

00:31:52.300 and of course the result of that is that the average intelligence of the population goes down

00:31:57.020 and you these all these factors come together and and civilization um uh collapses essentially so i

00:32:05.020 think i think i think i think you're i think you're right that it is it is cyclical uh that's uh that that

00:32:10.860 that's sure but but but then the the best explanation is that which explains the most and i think that just to

00:32:18.380 say oh well it's it's it's a sexual competition mechanism um i mean first of all one of the things you said

00:32:25.580 i wrote down earlier um you you talked about uh the the the reproduction game changing and uh you know

00:32:34.860 nobody's children dying off or something to that effect or fewer it goes down yeah but that's i'm not

00:32:43.020 sure that's quite right because what you see under conditions of harsh darwinian selection for example

00:32:48.620 if you look at the research by gregory clark and the sun also rises and um uh the other book um god what's

00:32:57.340 it called the famous one 2007 book prince university press can't remember the title um that one um one of the

00:33:02.860 things that what's it called ollie by by suggestion you i actually do know it but now you said that

00:33:08.540 you don't i don't because i'm highly the 2007 one the one on the one where he looks at the wills

00:33:13.340 yes yes it's um it's the it's another play it's another clever it's another it's a hemingway pun

00:33:19.020 anyway that book um so one of one of the what's been shown in that and other research is that there was

00:33:25.020 substantial differential um completed fertility among different social classes

00:33:32.700 yeah failed ones so the the richer 50 of the society had about double the complete fertility

00:33:38.380 of the poor of 50 percent and and people knew this people were aware of this i forget which

00:33:43.980 dot it was some book i've cited somewhere that was written about 1670 about demographics and people

00:33:49.900 were aware of this that the the children of the poor died off and they didn't reproduce and so

00:33:55.980 it's a phrase that ollie has coined in in a sense our society was being self-genocided by its upper class

00:34:03.020 every generation and the the genes of the upper of the higher classes the genes therefore of the more

00:34:08.940 intelligent were were moving their way down every generation which is why all of we english people are

00:34:15.100 descended from ever with the third um because that process was occurring so i think the most

00:34:21.580 parsimonious explanation has to has to take in has to explain has to bring into its purview

00:34:28.620 the genetic explanations which we have well sorry the genetic changes which are congruous with the

00:34:36.780 behavioral changes that we note in wokeness which would predict that happening um and other changes it has

00:34:44.700 it has to explain the lot and your explanation is only explaining an element of it i think your

00:34:51.100 your explanation would be drawn under the purview of a large explanation which aspects which aspects of

00:34:57.260 wokeness are you suggesting that i'm not explaining because your explanation then you sort of pointed

00:35:01.500 out how it was always the case that the the wealthiest were having the most completed reproduction

00:35:08.140 right and so the the less wealthy were not and so what began happening when societies began getting

00:35:15.580 wealthier that began to change right once you once you're in a society where it is yeah so this is my

00:35:24.220 argument once you're in a society where the differential wealth of the wealthiest is no longer sufficient

00:35:29.660 to guarantee differential reproductive success the women begin to change their behavior such that they

00:35:36.220 maintain that differential reproductive success and the way they change their behavior is to engage in

00:35:42.460 manipulative reproductive suppression of the women below them because they can't rely on the lack of

00:35:47.260 wealth and the poverty of those women to kill those women's babies for them and so what we see now that

00:35:53.420 we are currently calling woke is just the current manifestation of this female manipulative reproductive

00:35:59.020 suppression by the wealthy women whose wealth is no longer affording them the differential reproductive

00:36:03.500 of success that it used to which is why this stuff emerges when societies get sufficiently wealthy

00:36:09.740 that the poorest 50 percent are no longer just having babies that die all the time when you're not

00:36:14.540 getting pressure surely the the um under under in a context of of harsh child of harsh darwinian selection

00:36:24.780 and high child mortality um if you're a wealthy woman

00:36:28.620 um there is every possibility that your offspring will die off or whatever and so there would be a

00:36:35.740 very strong pressure to be very competitive yes but competitive in what way it could be competitive to

00:36:42.380 get the best man and who has the best genes to get the best wealth to have the healthiest children

00:36:49.100 not to pour all of your efforts into all of your efforts and time and energy and resources into stopping

00:36:54.940 other women from reproducing because you didn't need to do that because the odds of you succeeding

00:36:59.900 if you just concentrate on yourself was much much better than the odds of them succeeding even if they

00:37:04.940 also pulled all their efforts and resources just into themselves once societies reach a point where

00:37:10.060 wealth no longer affords differential reproductive success to the wealthy women begin to behave differently

00:37:15.900 they pour much less effort into their own individual reproductive success because there's now they now

00:37:21.180 have sufficient wealth that the diminishing law of returns like the law of diminishing returns

00:37:25.980 on pouring that excess resources and molten energy into their own reproductive success is simply not

00:37:30.860 going to pay off what's the point of doing it then what's the what's the i mean they're all basically

00:37:35.100 until relatively recently that they're in a situation where they're all going to get husbands

00:37:40.380 and they're all going to get children and those children are all going to survive

00:37:44.540 right so what so what's the point of even trying to compete

00:37:47.740 because they're all going to survive and that's the point so why compete then you're going to get

00:37:53.340 your kids because because reproductive because okay so reproductive success is not absolute it's

00:37:59.740 relative if you have five kids and every other woman in the population have five kids you're not

00:38:04.860 winning anything your genes are not going to increase in frequency in the population if you're in a

00:38:09.900 population where everybody is having or where the average uh reproductive rate is say 1.5 kids but

00:38:15.420 you're having two then you're winning right so reproductive success is relative a woman having

00:38:21.820 two children in a population where the background reproductive rate is 1.5 i mean much better the

00:38:27.500 higher class women statistically don't have many children and there's a weak negative correlation

00:38:32.460 between intelligence and how many children you have there's a negative correlation between

00:38:36.300 socio-economic status and how many children you have it's the people right at the bottom that

00:38:40.540 are having loads of kids and that and they don't even want them they're just having them because

00:38:44.220 they can't use contraception properly and this is something i was thinking so this is something

00:38:48.860 i was thinking is i'm following what you're saying but wouldn't these women be better off simply

00:38:54.140 campaigning against the welfare state rather than all this convoluted woke stuff um i would say no

00:39:02.380 if you look at if you look at abortion rates if you look at the number of women that are voluntarily

00:39:07.020 withdrawing themselves from the reproductive pool i would say that what they're doing is incredibly

00:39:12.140 successful they are successfully crushing the society they're very successful the other thing

00:39:19.740 to remember is that it's not a simple sort of unifactorial um cause and effect situation it's about

00:39:26.780 the entire manipulative reproductive suppression system so one of the key ways that women are able to

00:39:33.580 influence a society is to get into its institutions so that's why we see all these elite women just you know

00:39:40.540 having a uh tactic or a strategy of manipulative reproductive suppression where they lower their

00:39:47.740 own reproductive rate in absolute terms which they can afford to do because the odds of survival of

00:39:53.500 each individual child is much higher than it can be so deciding only to have two or three children in

00:39:59.180 an environment where they're going where they're ostensibly are pretty confident they are going to

00:40:03.020 survive is a much less much less risky strategy than attempting to implement something like this when child

00:40:08.620 mortality is really high and you just have to have as many as you can because there is a real risk that

00:40:12.940 that many of them could die and not going to reproduce themselves so the rate the way that these

00:40:17.500 women are influencing is that they're putting much less of their time and resources into reproduction

00:40:23.100 having fewer children overall but spending their time and resources instead entering into society's

00:40:29.420 institutions becoming over represented in university schools hospitals councils all these different places

00:40:35.980 where they get to make the rules and they get to influence how the rest of society behaves and so

00:40:41.180 what we see they pour their resources into these other efforts and that results in lower massively lower

00:40:49.340 reproductive success overall but allows them if they have a small number of children to win the game

00:40:55.980 and that's who i said before are the ones who are actually winning the ones who are going all in on this

00:41:02.780 and actually not having children are the losers right every sort of competition has winners and losers

00:41:09.100 and there is a balance point that individuals need to decide when they are playing these games and this

00:41:13.820 is a game that i don't see how this is inconsistent with the idea that what what happens is that you

00:41:18.860 wokeness uh uh in individually oriented values we flip we get to a 20 or whatever it is in western

00:41:26.220 samples it may be different in some of us from other societies uh 20 tipping point or 25 tipping

00:41:31.980 point we tip over very quickly into individually oriented values we competitively signal them

00:41:37.740 they they take over the culture they push us in a maladaptive direction that's exactly what these

00:41:42.380 women are doing they're pushing other women in a maladaptive direction and the women that are more

00:41:46.860 like that are more likely to be sucked into that um these these maladaptive ideas are those that don't

00:41:52.380 have the inbuilt genetic resistance of of like for example fundamentalist religiosity which in some

00:41:57.420 sample some twin studies is as much as a 0.7 um uh genetically mediated um and and so then that

00:42:05.660 that is the resistance that's who's left everybody else is wiped out and perhaps i don't know these

00:42:11.260 women but maybe they're sort of quite nuanced genetically maybe some of them are quite genetically healthy

00:42:17.020 um and and they've and they've adopted this system um because it helped because it helps them but my

00:42:22.380 point is that are the eugenics explanation um what they're doing makes sense in terms of the genetic

00:42:30.460 changes that we're highlighting and to say it's just a feminist a female competition strategy

00:42:38.700 is ignoring those changes that would equally that would equally or at least to some extent explain what's

00:42:45.740 happening so that's why i'm saying a better theory would take in both of these things because what

00:42:52.220 does it mean but why does it necessarily ignore those genetic changes when we both agree

00:42:59.340 that if what was happening if what i describe is in fact what's happening then these are the genetic

00:43:04.620 changes that we would expect to see as that happens so how is it ignoring the genetic changes when those

00:43:09.900 genetic changes are entirely consistent with um i'm saying i'm saying those those changes will make

00:43:16.380 people um more left-wing um more left-wing they'll have more left-wing and thus uh via a process of

00:43:23.980 competitive signaling uh more anti-natalist essentially um sorts uh an anti in-group and so on um sorts of

00:43:34.220 views and and that will lead um to the situation that we that we are now in where women are inculcated

00:43:44.380 so if your argument okay so if your argument is that via relaxed selection pressure which i'm not sure

00:43:52.380 that there necessarily is relaxed selection pressure because there's still differential

00:43:57.100 reproduction even if it doesn't come through mortality um but if there is relaxed selection

00:44:02.860 pressure that leads to effectively genetic drift off in random directions that causes dysgenic individuals

00:44:09.900 why do those individuals always act in particular ways that are reproductive that are so uh strategically

00:44:18.700 reproductively limiting like why do they not just do why do they not just do sort of crazy quirky

00:44:24.860 outrageous things or why are they not i guess perhaps even more to the point why are they you know

00:44:31.020 why is there not evolved tendencies for those people to not join these massive social contenders like what

00:44:37.340 what is your explanation for why these you know especially young women much more so than young

00:44:43.180 men join these massive social contagions when they're younger that lead to everything from

00:44:48.780 self-sterilization to self-sabotage of mate value sabotage of you know of their appearance to the

00:44:55.340 opposite sex all these things why are they so motivated if it's just just driven by dysgenics

00:45:01.260 well it's not just it's not it's not just driven by dysgenics that's that's my point it's it's driven

00:45:05.260 by dysgenics and it's driven by and it's driven by other things so it's it's it's maybe dysgenic at the

00:45:10.700 at the sort of a at the core it's changes in the population and the modal genetics of the population that

00:45:16.060 has led to a sort of a tipping point and changes in how we behave and what we do but then as for as for uh

00:45:22.940 such that we are pushing people i would the way i put it is along a maladaptive uh roadmap of life

00:45:29.180 women are more socially conformist um women are higher in social anxiety social anxiety goes down

00:45:38.060 with age apart or anxiety neuroticism goes down with age apart from a blip in adolescence when it goes

00:45:45.740 up which is exactly why you would predict that it's going to be women it's it's women of a certain age

00:45:51.580 between i don't know 15 and 25 or something like that or for 30 i don't know some range like that

00:45:57.580 that are going to be very very uh hyper socially conformist and socially anxious and are going to

00:46:03.740 be drawn into in a context in which society is right-wing and conservative um that could be enough

00:46:12.140 to overcome their general interest in equality and harm avoidance and push them to be uber conservative

00:46:17.900 and in fact that's what you see if you look in the 1950s you have these billy graham rallies in the in

00:46:23.980 the mid 50s in the uk oh 70 of the attendees were women um in particular young women and they would

00:46:32.540 become absolutely hysterical and he would call them up call them up to you know to be given the gift of

00:46:39.740 the holy spirit to confess their sins and they collapse on the floor and cry and then we and then

00:46:45.900 we go forward we flip over i suggest into being more focused on individually oriented values we socially

00:46:52.060 signal that and then it's probably quite similar kinds of women that are psychologically mentally

00:46:57.980 unstable women um who are particularly mentally unstable at that age who are then going to the

00:47:03.740 black lives matter rallies and and and and you know lying on the floor and saying how terrible it is

00:47:10.300 that they're white and and whatever um that's why it's attractive to females i'd like ollie to say

00:47:16.060 something though because he just sits there in silence judging i'm just your humble page ed i am

00:47:20.060 i will speak essentially your idea i really think you you should try grounding the discussion more

00:47:27.980 on where these uh behaviors supposedly are expressing and that is of course our education system because

00:47:32.940 what is the education system what a bunch of people who are not very genetically related and less

00:47:38.060 genetically related than they were historically because of more genetic diversity and epiversity which is

00:47:42.860 a kind of a separate sociological thing that you we could also consider but uh what is that but uh

00:47:49.820 teachers not caring about um the children that they are teaching about their actual fitness the way

00:47:55.660 perhaps uh uh parents might not care so much about the adopted uh children or slaves or whatever these

00:48:01.420 sad and motifs and literature well you you know you've got the same dynamic what do what do the teachers

00:48:06.220 want to do well they want to virtue signal you know which but when you start signaling virtue of course

00:48:12.220 that's uh i mean one thing you're just going for status and that has of course the sexual value and this

00:48:17.100 kind of thing and and of course they're going to give this sabotage advice the young women saying

00:48:21.580 oh don't do this and do that but at the same time when you're talking about virtue you're getting into

00:48:25.500 the sort of group selected things because uh virtue is a sort of fantasy about how you want society to

00:48:30.620 be um now obviously the education system was full of group selected people many years ago and now

00:48:37.020 of course as height goes on and about the education system is full of the most profound individualizing

00:48:41.980 moralists they don't give a flip about what's good for society they just want to uh put in their own

00:48:47.740 uh what's good for this particular individuals and this kind of thing and that's a breeding ground

00:48:51.340 just for basic sexual selection we've just did the individual interest there's absolutely no concern

00:48:56.860 for the group at all so that kind of feeds back into what you would expect danny's uh what's danny's

00:49:01.820 talking about the competition i'll tell you what this this conversation has i think unlocked me

00:49:10.140 something that i was puzzling on um next week on brokonomics i'm going to be interviewing a squaddie

00:49:15.340 because uh i i've uh you served in afghanistan because one of the things i've been puzzling about

00:49:20.940 is the acceptance of this baki bazi um you know treatment we're basically where afghan men would um

00:49:27.820 you know take young boys as sort of pleasure things um and and basically the thing that gets

00:49:33.180 me is that uh well obviously we've just had 24 000 of these guys shipped into the uk uh and so

00:49:39.340 therefore we can expect this to become now a feature of modern life but the thing that got me

00:49:42.940 is why was the british army um like no you have to ignore this it's part of their culture but

00:49:49.340 simultaneously um they would ride roughshod over that in order to get um women on afghani um village

00:49:57.420 elder councils so one of these things child rape is oh no it's just part of their culture we have to

00:50:02.780 overlook it uh but the other one you know they were willing to to blow up um any relationship in

00:50:08.380 order to force these women onto the elder councils and i couldn't figure out why um a a sort of woke

00:50:16.060 society like ours would would make that distinction but actually under dr danny's framing that sort of

00:50:23.420 thing makes absolutely perfect sense to me so um but but nevertheless i i would like

00:50:29.660 sorry why why why how does it make sense um uh uh dr danny do you want do you want to say

00:50:35.340 do you do am i making sense yeah because the sexual abuse of young boys is largely immaterial

00:50:41.420 to female reproductive success except to the extent that it creates damaged men which become a danger to

00:50:48.060 other women um so that can that can get is for exactly the same reason why feminists are the

00:50:55.020 particular brands of feminists to be clear um but exactly why feminists um aren't interested in child

00:51:01.580 sexual abuse of boys and why they're um totally happy and silent for you know young girls to be

00:51:08.140 mutilated by the transgender cult in spite of being so pro-woman and you know perfectly happy for men in

00:51:14.860 dresses with fetishes to enter into women's change rooms where young women and girls are they're

00:51:19.660 perfectly happy for anything dastardly that is ultimately going to damage at risk women and girls

00:51:26.620 to happen um and then of course being really insistent on getting women in afghanistan um out of a family

00:51:34.940 role and into um any kind of an institutional vocation just is uh i mean that's just a fundamental

00:51:43.740 of manipulative reproductive suppression get women out of uh you know baby making roles and into

00:51:50.300 influencing society roles that's that's just what would they be wouldn't they be concerned

00:51:54.060 that they could be abused by these transseptuals that go into their changing room i don't understand

00:51:59.020 because the women who know because the women who are pushing this are not going to go into a

00:52:02.780 public changing room in a public park they're not that type of women right there is a massive like

00:52:08.300 there is a massive class difference between the women who are promoting this maliciously and the

00:52:14.220 women who are foolish enough to fall for it and are actually at risk of being hurt by it it's all

00:52:20.700 these you see oh i mean you've seen how many female celebrities who don't have to walk down any of the

00:52:26.060 dangerous streets or put themselves amongst the plebs ever whose children are trans promoting this massive

00:52:32.060 trans ideology it is the next big phase again you'll say this implies that there is a kind of

00:52:38.780 psychopathic or sort of dark triad female higher class yes two things two things on that regard

00:52:48.140 why it's very interesting firstly um i've recently i don't know why it's taken me so long to find these

00:52:53.020 studies but there are studies that look at the difference in modal personality between the upper and

00:52:59.580 middle class um and this is the case they are more psychopathic they are in a sense more like the

00:53:06.620 working class but with but with higher intelligence and that's consistent with um what's his name

00:53:12.220 something dutton kevin dutton's uh research at the university of oxford that people that are very

00:53:17.340 very high up in the elite are high in in psychopathic traits but then also it would be consistent

00:53:22.460 potentially with changes you'd expect that because of this breakdown in selection we kind of all be

00:53:28.780 becoming more dark triad we'd all be becoming more uh psychopathic and and and cluster b disorders and

00:53:35.900 things like that we'd all be becoming like that because they're not being selected out as much and

00:53:39.100 they are associated with poor uh physical health um and and so and so therefore again it would be an

00:53:45.980 alteration in the nature of the elite and the female elite which would then i'm just saying i think you're

00:53:52.060 right about the sexual competition thing but i'm saying that if you bring in the the stuff that we look at

00:53:57.740 which is the changes in the in the genetics of the population um and the bill of mutation and its

00:54:03.580 consequences you it's explaining more strands of information um but that's the that that yeah that

00:54:13.580 does uh but then the question is then what kind of people are these turfs psychologically and because

00:54:19.020 one way you could say that they are is they are so they are sort of almost

00:54:24.460 the sort of the women in the jungle that have rape fantasies almost you know that they

00:54:29.500 think with turfs right is they're not they're not a coherent they're not a

00:54:35.020 coherent group as a group there is no that they all agree obviously that men can't be women

00:54:40.940 um but that's about all they agree on so they're you know it's it's trans exclusionary trans

00:54:46.140 exclusionary radical feminist is what it stands for for those who don't know but they're by and

00:54:50.700 large it's not radical feminists if you actually sort of understand the ideology of radical feminism

00:54:56.060 many of the people now sort of self-identifying into all this this i'm a turf are purely people who

00:55:01.180 are just just rejecting the the gender ideology stuff that they're not actually which is why you

00:55:07.500 see that the turf community is shattering around other feminist issues you see it shattering around

00:55:11.420 the the uh a huge sort of wars breaking out over um the palestine israel issue as well so many turfs

00:55:18.700 have been kicked out of turfdom for for daring to support israel for example so it they're not actually

00:55:24.220 you can't sort of explain the turfs as though there's a kind of coherent explanation because they're

00:55:29.260 actually a bunch of different people that have just found a common recognition and in many cases they

00:55:35.020 are just women who are not falling for the men can be women thing and i'm not letting one of those

00:55:41.500 you know a recent case in point not letting one of those fit a bra to my 14 year old daughter thank

00:55:46.380 you very much and then who's just come out victoria something or rather some uk journalist who if i was

00:55:52.140 from the uk i might know who she is but i don't i don't her name is victoria something or other writing

00:55:56.700 this big op-ed about how she would let her 14 year old daughter no she wouldn't but she just wants to

00:56:01.660 make sure that other women do that other women are more likely to expose their daughters to these

00:56:05.340 dangers she would do no such thing if she has more than half a brain um but she's running this big op-ed

00:56:10.460 saying that saying that that is what saying that that is what she would do um i do have a really

00:56:15.260 interesting idea that i wanted to to put out with these um celebrities having these trans kids to see

00:56:23.420 what it sounds like to to all of you um to see if it sounds sensible um so i think that there's a

00:56:31.580 tension between um having a trans kid as a form and this is kind of a basic tenet of female

00:56:39.180 intersexual competition which is why i'm also interested in your feedback this is just kind of

00:56:42.380 like one vehicle where this might happen um but a central tenet of female intersexual competition

00:56:48.540 is that you've got tension between virtue signaling the types of behaviors that you want other women

00:56:55.420 to engage in um in order to spread these fads that are reproductively suppressing but then of course the

00:57:03.020 extent to which you engage in these behaviors some of that could be uh acting you know if you like

00:57:08.860 live action role play sort of stuff but the most convincing way to do that is to actually is to

00:57:14.540 actually do it and so you've got a tension between when when are you crossing a line between actually

00:57:19.900 engaging in these behaviors and harming yourself versus just doing them sort of for show but not

00:57:25.740 really embodying it and the trans kid thing is a very interesting illustration of that tension

00:57:31.500 because you've got all of these hollywood celebrities like bazillions of them um claiming to have you

00:57:37.980 know trans children and in several cases you know claiming to have multiple trans all their children are

00:57:43.100 trans now um and they're being very vocal and everything about that and i don't have any formal

00:57:48.860 data on this i only have my own informal attempts to have a look but it seems to me that the celebrities

00:57:54.700 that have the trans children are the celebrities that are not quite a plus list so these are the ones

00:58:00.860 who i feel like in the the hollywood kind of upper echelons of elitism are the ones that feel like they

00:58:07.260 have some virtue signaling to make up because their status is not quite as high as the status

00:58:13.020 of of the other celebrities around them um and so they're the ones who are actually kind of getting

00:58:18.060 caught up in this and potentially shooting themselves in the foot but here's the thing

00:58:22.140 that i thought was sort of most interesting can anyone else see a parallel between that tension

00:58:29.420 with celebrities wanting their kids sort of advertising their kids as trans which we all know

00:58:35.100 ultimately potentially can really harm these own children's reproductive success fertility blah blah

00:58:39.020 um and going back to say the the 90s where the celebrity fad was hire a kid from africa and so

00:58:47.820 you had all of these white celebrities all running around with all of these kids with whom they shared

00:58:53.180 no genetic material and virtue signaling this whole kind of look how wonderful i am i'm adopting these

00:58:59.500 children and of course you know the more children they adopted the less children they had of their own

00:59:04.220 then that was similarly trying to taking a self-own a self you know an own goal um in order to signal

00:59:10.860 and i think i just i did adoption of african kids are now claiming to have trans kids amongst the

00:59:17.740 celebrity class i did a paper on this interracial adoption thing uh years ago uh as i was it's very

00:59:26.620 noticeable you get it in finland but it's always very middle class couples i know a case where the father is

00:59:33.340 a academic historian the mother's a psychologist and they adopt children from ethiopia or something

00:59:40.380 and then i noticed that it was only sort of more lower middle class or working class fins that can't

00:59:45.740 have children and of course it's less obvious that the kids are adopted but it's it's those ones that

00:59:51.020 i'm aware of that adopt fins and um and if all russians even where of course you are it's not your genetic

01:00:00.380 and it is actually closer to your genetic interests they're more related to you they're members of the

01:00:04.700 same ethnic group or the same broader you know the same race um and i think um i think part of it

01:00:12.300 just comes down to selfishness and individual interests so it used to be until the 70s really

01:00:19.020 that it was so unacceptable to have an illegitimate child that a lot of um illegitimate children that

01:00:25.500 were born to i don't know like a lawyer that has an affair with his secretary in those days a lawyer

01:00:30.460 secretary was quite middle class herself um and it's so unacceptable and so that the child is put

01:00:35.740 up for adoption mother and baby homes all this kind of thing and so there were loads and loads of

01:00:39.580 really quite normal children i mean maybe their parents were a bit you know middle class children

01:00:45.260 essentially congenitally intelligent and pro-social children although maybe their mom's a bit impulsive you

01:00:51.500 know dad's a bit impulsive um that could be adopted and of course since the 70s with the

01:00:57.660 acceptability of illegitimacy that pool of children has collapsed and the only native children who you

01:01:03.900 can adopt are going to be the children of just like drug addicts basically just people where they've had

01:01:09.420 to forcibly take away the child and these children are likely to have extremely anti-social tendencies

01:01:15.260 um and there's an awareness of that there's an understanding of that people know that deep down

01:01:22.300 they know that and also it's more expensive to adopt internally because there's such competition

01:01:29.500 there's there's so few children there's so few if you're in england there's so few white english kids

01:01:33.740 to adopt um so it's a cheaper to adopt from abroad be what you're getting from abroad it's going to be

01:01:41.500 realistically non-white countries perhaps russia is an exception but but it is kids that are probably

01:01:47.420 quite uh personality wise intelligence wise quite normal really uh the the they're just from working

01:01:54.700 class families they've had opportunities and desperate for money i see you can romanticize them

01:01:59.740 in a way that you can't our own underclass you'll regard our own underclasses sort of

01:02:05.420 right um and so there's all these and of course then you can but very importantly i think for some

01:02:10.940 people you can virtue signal with your kids oh aren't i a good person look at me with my my rainbow

01:02:17.100 collection of of children um so i think that's that's um that's part of it but you're probably

01:02:22.460 right there there is a parallel you you it is a uh uh a costly signal genetically to to adopt a child

01:02:31.100 and it is a financial costly signal as well so you're saying look i've got so much money

01:02:35.420 and so much love that i that i that i can i can adopt these children that are completely unrelated

01:02:41.660 to me like that judge kavanaugh for example that's an example he's left he's right-wing rather than

01:02:45.820 left-wing but he's done the same kind of thing you know he's virtue say he's signaling his christianity

01:02:51.580 by having his own children and then adopting these other children who inevitably he will love less

01:02:56.460 less and and and and who will feel loved less so yeah i can i can see the parallel ollie would you

01:03:02.780 like to say something yes i think there's a u.s supreme court justice um oh she's a cabinet no

01:03:07.900 it was uh amy or something amy company barrett i don't know oh yeah both loads of her own children

01:03:14.300 and all these oh sorry any power you're right about yeah yeah i think it's quite amusing yeah well i think

01:03:20.060 that's it though the ones that have their own kids and adopter again are the ones who are who can afford i

01:03:25.420 guess to both virtue signal and actually reproduce it's the ones who are effectively

01:03:32.220 you know choosing the virtue signal over the reproduction that's where you get the you know

01:03:37.580 that's where you get the tension that's where i find it interesting to compare that's what we get

01:03:41.500 that's what we get in work we get the people that are the most sort of messed up psychologically

01:03:47.340 that the highest in mutation probably in aspects of mutational load in the brain or whatever

01:03:51.740 that are the most inculcatable with dangerous things that will wreck their genetic chances

01:03:58.220 those are the people that are selected out by this those are the people that are removed by this

01:04:03.580 you advocate abortion abortion should be legal abortion should be free and legal

01:04:09.020 and who is it that's going to then take up that opportunity it's going to be people it's going to be

01:04:13.420 women that have low iq high habitational load and women that have high psychopathic traits that

01:04:18.700 basically would be awful mothers anyway um habitational load but you don't have an abortion

01:04:24.140 no you don't have an you don't have an abortion no that's right so so so um but i i'm suggesting that

01:04:31.100 that kind of machiavellian strategy and the rise of it is consistent with witness with with broader

01:04:38.700 changes in the population where there would be there would be more anti-social sort of people

01:04:43.740 this would flip things over to an anti-social society that we have now virtue signaling selfish

01:04:49.820 society this would this would act as a selection event on um large numbers of people who could be

01:04:57.500 sucked into the death cult because they didn't have the the genetic resistance of religiosity conservatism

01:05:04.220 things that make these ideas just repellent to them and then those people survive but the the

01:05:11.020 sexual selection element can be part of the broader process of that broader process which i suggest is

01:05:17.820 taking in it is taking in more germane information about alterations in the genetics of the population

01:05:24.300 which would be expressed in these ways and it doesn't have to therefore just just you i you're reducing

01:05:30.620 it down to sexual competition and i think that sexual competition can be part of a broader model

01:05:36.620 of what's occurring so yeah that's one point of disagreement i i my argument is that we are

01:05:43.740 grossly underestimating the organizational influence of intersexual competition that actually the reason

01:05:49.660 why all of these systems are organized this way is because they're driven by intersexual competition

01:05:54.940 um but what i do want to ask you though is what what is like in your mind what is the mechanistic

01:06:02.460 trigger so you have a society that where there's relaxed selection pressure you've got this um increase

01:06:09.100 in mutational load dysgenic whatever blah blah building up what is the mechanism by which people's

01:06:15.500 behavior begins to change or are you just proposing that it's purely just follows on from the increased

01:06:23.020 mutational load oh do you want to answer that can i come in yeah so i think it's terribly useful

01:06:29.580 especially for the listeners as well to make a an analogy with the death penalty because that's much

01:06:34.620 more tangible you see somebody dies and so obviously their fitness goes out especially they're a young

01:06:39.020 male and much has been written about this um richard wrangham's uh serious self domestication is

01:06:44.860 the goodness paradox it's just on my shelf there um was it robert frost's a paper on um

01:06:50.860 the execution in early medieval england it it's it's uh this is important because on the one hand

01:06:57.980 the death penalty starts as just ordinary individual selection somebody if you know kills

01:07:04.380 my son or whatever or grieves me or steals my sheep or whatever it is i want them dead in a sort of act

01:07:09.420 of revenge and this sort of thing but then because it's become the sort of social thing where everything

01:07:14.780 sort of approves if who gets who's supposed to be executed in a in a small town or society or whatever

01:07:20.460 it is a term it's builds it's builds up and being people start virtually signaling the political

01:07:26.060 opinions about the death penalty and this kind of thing eventually what happens is that the death

01:07:30.300 penalty is actually extremely important for group selection because it actually involves the parameters

01:07:35.180 by which free riders and bad people are punished and who would break otherwise break the society down

01:07:40.700 and cause instability internal conflict weakness so that other societies invade okay well that's the

01:07:46.620 death penalty but by analogy sexual sabotage or just general sabotage of anyone's fitness overall i

01:07:53.980 mean it's a very all-encompassing thing it is just another mechanism for that or can be at least in our

01:08:00.700 model and we go very far with this we say well yes as as i say it builds on top of your your model of

01:08:06.620 just ordinary sexual selected behavior where we just want to sabotage just just because it makes me

01:08:11.820 sexier than you or whatever by eliminating competition whatever it is we're saying but at

01:08:15.580 the same time because it always invariably against this political stuff about the tribe or the good

01:08:21.340 of the nation would we then start actually having effects but the thing is that of course

01:08:27.500 wokists never signal anything that apparently that's good for the group with quite the opposite they

01:08:32.300 are they're doing everything they can to collapse society so the big sort of enjoyable conspiratorial

01:08:37.980 theory in uh woke eugenics is is that actually but that's that's because they're accelerationists

01:08:43.740 they're actually trying to polarize society they're trying to break everything down as well as they're

01:08:49.420 just trying to eliminate mutation here and there and other people like uh what the shakers did to

01:08:54.620 the quakers you know because the shakers were just in a more extreme but ed's writing a book right

01:08:58.700 now called the quaker question on on this because yeah i did the uh uh the quakers are behind

01:09:03.980 everything i don't know maybe people always say it's the jews but if you look at the funding of hope not

01:09:07.820 hate and the center of digital i forget about whatever it is about there's even more quaker

01:09:12.780 trusts that are funding it and these legacy quakers that uh than actual i've got a question for you

01:09:19.980 because um you know we've heard some fascinating stuff from dr danny about you know if i'm understanding

01:09:25.420 it correctly feminism is just the sexual strategy of resource-rich women made into law um but but but

01:09:32.780 a lot of this is enabled through the democratic system and the softness that it produces

01:09:37.580 it appears to be building up this vast amount of mutational load and sort of edge cases which

01:09:43.180 is in the short term perhaps beneficial but but ultimately this is becoming um you know democracy

01:09:49.020 itself is becoming a dysgenic system if these systems run on so i kind of want to come back to

01:09:54.220 the thing that you you alluded to right at the beginning of when you started talking which is

01:09:58.060 where does this go i mean i want to know that where does this go i mean does does democracy decide uh

01:10:03.900 endure or does it have to go away uh because the the biological imperatives just find it

01:10:09.740 incompatible after a while well we're also doing a book on kind of democracy myself and ollie oh good

01:10:17.580 talk about it intervene that yes we have the world one of war and democracy and democracy is

01:10:23.020 not very good at fighting war that was quite but it is very good for recruiting um but uh how this

01:10:35.660 connects to this is it's kind of uh i have to consider a lot there um uh but uh

01:10:43.500 i suppose if the the idea i think would certainly what we wrote in the book is that um once you turn to

01:10:48.540 a pre-industrial um pre-industrial society so i think it sort of goes without saying that there's

01:10:52.860 there will be no no democracy anymore uh and um in any case we we are more or less guarantee a civil

01:11:00.380 war because you don't you don't just revert to pre-industrial society from where we are without

01:11:04.460 quite an immense amount of um mortality uh so uh i mean is that consistent with them

01:11:11.740 oh sorry sorry go ahead in response to danny is that what wokeness is doing is yeah you can say

01:11:19.020 there's this sexual competition element but what it is also doing is collapsing society it is it is

01:11:23.980 literally with welfare for example um there was a study was it i think it was a new zealand study

01:11:29.180 which found that if you if you if you look at um um families where where both parents are working

01:11:34.460 iq 100 let's say families where one parents on welfare families with both parents on welfare families

01:11:39.100 where both parents on welfare and they have police and social worker interventions only that group has

01:11:44.300 above replacement fertility and the heritability of socio-economic genetic of those because it says

01:11:48.940 it seems to be as much as 80 percent so that that is a well our left-wing policy welfare they are

01:11:55.100 collapsing society so it was such that those that are genetically unhealthy will be killed will die off

01:12:03.420 will will will ended um they are collapsing society um and as as a together with that they are pushing

01:12:11.980 people along with this as i said this maladaptive road map of life which discovered which it helped

01:12:16.540 it brings about a situation where the people that are genetically healthy i.e those that are religious

01:12:22.780 and conservative those are the ones that will have children anyway so a lot of people say oh oh i can't

01:12:28.060 have children i can't afford a house in london i can't fuck off you can't afford you can't afford

01:12:34.540 a certain standard of living because you're materialistic and if you're not materialistic

01:12:40.380 if you're religious and you're conservative and you think god is guiding you through life

01:12:44.700 you will have children anyway and and you'll be and you'll be confident that god will provide

01:12:50.540 so that is itself that materialism that idea of bringing in lots of immigrants so nobody which is

01:12:55.500 what woke does so nobody can afford a bloody house what that and therefore they don't have

01:13:00.540 children that is selecting out the materialistic the non-religious the non-conservative and it is

01:13:06.780 and it is and it is uh and it is keeping in the healthy and the healthy that is a fitness factor

01:13:12.700 which includes religiousness and conservatism um uh particularly when you control for intelligence

01:13:18.140 and so i would say all these things it's it's a way of of stopping p it stops people who are

01:13:24.140 basically genetically sick it is those people that will be that will not have the uh um the the

01:13:30.380 resistance mechanism to this uh of conservatism and and it's and the fact that they're collapsing

01:13:36.540 society along with it means that it makes sense of more if we understand it as an accelerationist

01:13:42.540 strategy to bring us back to health so i agree that it's an accelerationist strategy i also

01:13:47.340 agree that it is deliberately collapsing society that is in fact what it's aiming for you said

01:13:51.660 earlier that you didn't agree with the notion of a genetic bottleneck so when you see this strategy

01:13:58.620 bringing society down it's acceleration is it's bringing on the collapse of society 100 agree with

01:14:03.420 that you will end up with far fewer people i didn't say that i didn't say i don't agree with

01:14:07.580 the genetic bottleneck i agree with the genetic bottleneck it is going to create a genetically

01:14:11.100 more homogenous population that are more similar i didn't agree what you said is that it's creating

01:14:16.140 a genetic bottleneck and that it was something along the lines of that will permit an invasion of some

01:14:21.900 other group and that that bottleneck will be submerged into the other group it was something along those

01:14:26.140 lines that you said and that's why i don't agree i think this this bottleneck will be ethnocentric

01:14:30.940 conservative and you know bellicose and will fight like buggery yeah okay so here's an interesting

01:14:38.140 observation that's probably not actually going to help us um determine between which of our theories

01:14:43.100 because i think both of our theories actually predict this but interesting observation is that when you look

01:14:48.860 at um the split of babies so numbers of boys versus numbers of girls and they're showing that as

01:14:58.460 populations be sorry as countries if you're on the country level as countries become wealthier

01:15:02.620 the overall share of boys becomes greater and this seems to be driven it's partly perhaps a small

01:15:09.020 part of it could be a biological effect because it seems to be holding true in countries where you

01:15:13.820 don't get um large-scale genetic testing and and that allows for the option of differential abortion of

01:15:20.620 of boys versus girls um so it seems to be happening in countries where that's not quite so prevalent

01:15:26.220 suggesting that it could actually be an effect driven by either post um conception female

01:15:31.260 reproductive choice or indeed somehow male sperm selection or something um but i suspect that a

01:15:37.420 big part of it is driven once you get into the wealthier countries where the effect actually then

01:15:40.780 seems to get larger and larger um is that you it's driven by differential abortion so you've got um

01:15:49.020 people choosing to systematically abort girls much more often than to abort boys and i think

01:15:55.660 these data might actually have come out of australia but i'll i'll stand corrected if i'm wrong um

01:16:00.460 in australia i think they're showing that that is driven primarily by migrants and first generation

01:16:07.420 migrants so first generation migrants and their children are primarily responsible for this

01:16:11.500 differential abortion of boys whereas the native popular sorry differential abortion of girls giving

01:16:17.180 birth to more boys whereas the native population are actually preferentially having girls but because

01:16:24.140 people who are coming in are reproducing more quickly the overall net for the population

01:16:28.460 is that there's overall more boys being born and more girls being aborted so what we're seeing is the

01:16:34.220 the remnants of the woke society as it shrinks and comes down is also choosing to have fewer men and

01:16:42.140 choosing to have more more women um and whereas we see societies that are in a boom phase um that are

01:16:49.180 growing and spreading and reproducing at a faster rate than than we are so people who've come from

01:16:54.060 other countries where the reproductive rates are higher and those um people are still reproducing at

01:16:59.180 higher rates than than the country they've arrived in um then we're seeing selection for more boys but i

01:17:04.620 suspect that that is actually probably consistent with what what both of us would predict would happen

01:17:11.100 because a population in your scenario that is going to found its own society again would want to be

01:17:17.500 female biased in order to do that that would be the fastest way to do that and a society that is

01:17:22.220 preparing to be invaded and wants to genetically keep as much of its material as possible also wants

01:17:26.700 to be female biased because the women are going to reproduce and the men are going to get killed

01:17:30.380 so that's an interesting observation but i think it's actually consistent with what both of us that

01:17:34.140 doesn't intimidate me from an ethnocentric point of view because as long as my boys if if there are

01:17:40.220 fewer of them are sufficiently able and bellicose um than than than we can deal with the invading

01:17:47.100 forces and and actually you ultimately want more women if you're going to come out the other side of

01:17:50.860 this so that doesn't seem inconsistent at all with a with a brighter future there are race differences

01:17:55.900 in sex ratio aren't there black women are more likely to have girls yeah yeah it's a it's a it looks

01:18:01.820 to be like a jay philip rushland thing to me yes well explain that that was interesting explain that

01:18:08.220 well i actually came up with a model to to explain that it was due to the fact that on more unstable

01:18:13.100 fast life history environments like you get in central africa you it's actually more advantageous

01:18:17.500 to have women because women can have children at a younger age until you get accelerated fertility

01:18:21.980 so faster fertility not just more children but children sooner um i can't remember where i put

01:18:27.820 that theory i may have buried it actually in the first bookhead uh somewhere but uh it's just a

01:18:33.180 sort of footnote so so why why are we um getting heavy on on female births in the west is is that

01:18:40.380 because we're being pushed into a fast life strategy that's what that would make sense wouldn't it we

01:18:45.260 would be having more girls because we are dysgenic from from our strategy of being very very case

01:18:50.140 strategic we would be more we would have more girls there are other signs that we are increasing

01:18:53.420 life history women having a um menarche a younger and younger age um larger breasts as well as a

01:19:00.860 guy of secondary sexual characteristics increasing the women are becoming more files to life history

01:19:05.900 i don't know and so we're having more women or something but i think these but these birth ratios

01:19:09.740 tend to be quite small i wouldn't make too much of them it's just you know one percent more one

01:19:15.340 percent less than this country that kind of thing but small effects can be selected for over time

01:19:20.620 so if they're if they're systematic and they can be shown to be persistent then they're a clue as

01:19:25.580 to what's going on even though they're small um okay so so we're probably the last 10 minutes now of

01:19:32.380 our chat so um i wanted to close out on on a question of of what we do with this and and i kind

01:19:38.700 of like to go around the panel and get your views on it because if if each of you were able to

01:19:43.980 provide policy advice um to our respective governments about what to do what would be that

01:19:50.620 policy advice although possibly listening to you all um you might not actually want to give any

01:19:56.140 advice because they're doing such a stand-up job of accelerating us over the cliff that it's it's

01:20:02.460 better to go with that than it is to actually try and do anything and i'm a little bit unclear and

01:20:07.500 that's why i want to hear so so can we start with my top left ed what what is your policy advice um to

01:20:13.500 those that that rule look since the early 2000s i've been writing articles in whatever you know

01:20:20.940 conservative magazines and so on i've in 97 i remember being absolutely horrified when labour

01:20:27.020 were elected and some of the policies they came out with jack straw saying there would be such a thing

01:20:31.740 as racially motivated crime and all this and gradually we know we have we have uh slided is that

01:20:38.700 a word we have slidden we have slid that's the word we have slid um into a into a semi-dictatorship

01:20:45.420 in in the uk um and all along all these people all of these purple pill peterson pill types have have

01:20:53.980 done nothing and said nothing and have said oh we the joys of multiculturalism and only now it's got to

01:20:59.500 this terrible point are we seeing uh are we beginning to see a reaction and a reaction against woke

01:21:05.980 uh and now we're having and that leads to a polarization it leads to people on the right

01:21:11.020 wing side right wingness signaling and now we're having debates like what does it mean to be english

01:21:17.820 can is it possible to be genetically non-english and english and that's the debate we wouldn't have

01:21:24.300 had even 10 years ago no one would have dared say in public that someone like uh rishi sunak is not

01:21:30.060 english or or swella bravman um is not english and she said herself she's not english in order to

01:21:35.660 sort of kind of whiter line in the great collapse um it's incredible to whiter line which she has

01:21:42.700 done by marrying a white person as well um when when when we break up into into the neo-byzantium

01:21:48.700 so i think they're doing um by the way i i came up with a term for this the other day um it's a

01:21:55.020 foreign exclusionary radical nationalists burns because the debate that's yes very good

01:22:01.660 happening among nationalists is the same as the ones happening among turfs isn't it turfs are

01:22:06.540 saying to be a woman you have to biologically be a woman you have to be what we're saying to be

01:22:10.700 english you have to be biologically english you have to have english ancestors so ferns ferns chaps

01:22:15.500 know your roots um but so so i think i think there's a there's a there's a degree to which there's a degree

01:22:20.700 to which uh just let them get on with it and let what eugenics uh play out and i suspect what will

01:22:27.260 happen is what is what happens in the winters of civilization which we're in um is that the large

01:22:34.140 trust goes down polarization goes up large polities break up and civilization it doesn't collapse

01:22:40.460 completely i mean rome didn't collapse it retreated into byzantium civilization retreats

01:22:46.300 we will retreat into areas of england australia is still about ninety three percent white or

01:22:53.820 ninety three percent european so that that's the possibility there's all kinds of possibilities

01:22:57.340 we'll see lots of movement as we did in the dark ages as we did in the dark ages um you know you had

01:23:03.260 english people fleeing in in ten uh seventy and three hundred different ships to ukraine and and

01:23:10.380 founding nova anglia yeah all this sort of thing and um and this is what will start to happen so i

01:23:16.380 think just just buckle up for the ride really okay so ed is looking forward to living in interesting

01:23:21.260 times um uh dr danny if if you were to give um with all best endeavors advice to our policy makers

01:23:28.300 uh to get us out of this spiral what would it be look i'm a lot more pessimistic than than ed i think

01:23:36.060 ed's i don't know i think he must see a a point of recovery at some point he does that i don't um

01:23:42.780 look i i hate i hate this type of question it's kind of the same as the question of so how do we fix it

01:23:48.940 because if i'm honest we can't that it's it's it's it's the any theoretically possible solution is

01:23:56.940 logistically impossible socially unpaddable that in realistic terms there is nothing that can be done

01:24:04.060 we are on a sinking ship it's it's over it's finished um there there is nothing policy wise i think that

01:24:12.940 can be sensibly done at this point america gives me some hope but if i'm honest i i don't think that

01:24:22.700 that's going to last that long either i think that's more of a blip in what is you know an overall

01:24:29.020 decline rather than a sign of an actual turnaround um i'm just very pessimistic i actually think that

01:24:35.580 this is and so does ed he just doesn't need to mind as much i think what what's coming is a foregone

01:24:42.140 conclusion um and i don't think we can realistically do much to stop it so i guess if i was going to

01:24:47.020 speak seriously from that perspective and actually try to come up with policy advice it would be uh

01:24:52.780 advice to adapt to what's coming not advice to try to ward it off so what's coming so dr danny sees a

01:25:01.180 grim dark future where there is only war which is which is slightly um unfortunate but if that's

01:25:06.060 what it is that's what it is um ollie um rupert lowe wins a future um general election uh surrounds

01:25:13.580 himself with sensible chaps you are called in as the chief as evolutionary um advisor and he says to

01:25:20.220 you what do we do what's your answer oh a bit at that point obviously things have gone very well i

01:25:25.500 mean i would immediately declare a dictatorship and i'm trying to inject some enthusiasm into this

01:25:29.740 conversation no we want uh god bless kia starmer god bless him accelerate accelerate now and nobody

01:25:36.060 i mean i couldn't ask for a better accelerationist he's the entire government everything they do is

01:25:40.940 designed perfectly to piss off and polarize society to economically bankrupt it and ensure that we don't

01:25:48.300 die slowly because that will kill us if we just get slowly replaced over time and everyone's just rich

01:25:54.700 enough that we don't care and this sort of thing but england's gone that's it it's over but if we

01:25:59.100 collapse things quickly in the way kia starmer is doing then of course we can always shift to our

01:26:04.140 own polities create these neo-byzantiums as ed says and then we can at somewhere england can survive

01:26:09.660 and the west can survive so god bless kia starmer keep doing what you're doing i mean it's brilliant

01:26:15.100 i mean it's just wonderful i you know i'm voting for labor in the next election i don't know i don't

01:26:20.460 think superb superb superb i was going to join i was going to join the jeremy corbyn sultana party

01:26:26.700 jezbollah yeah hezbollah yes all is the best one i mean i'm i'm always suspicious of accelerationism

01:26:36.940 because well you just look at south africa but then i suppose they started in a different situation to

01:26:41.980 where we are so if we can accelerate faster than they are starting from a different position maybe there is

01:26:47.920 optimism um would anyone like to throw in a closing remark or uh and and you should also all

01:26:54.320 shill something ed closing remark shill something i just i'll just say keep keep keep at it chaps

01:27:03.480 uh as ollie says um uh god bless them this we are seeing the breakup of england it's going to break up

01:27:10.320 into different policies and those policies are going to become i think are going to be relatively based but

01:27:14.760 there's going to be a dramatic reduction in the standard of living which will also increase

01:27:19.420 mortality salience and whatever what would i like to shill okay well i'll i'll shill i'll grift

01:27:24.100 um i'll grift uh so that the um yeah jolly heretic chaps is my youtube channel so please subscribe

01:27:30.720 over there and then jolly heretic is my substat can please subscribe over there and if you like what i

01:27:34.540 do you can support me for the cost of a pint of beer a month and um and let's shill the book and that

01:27:40.480 is woke eugenics how social justice is a mask for social darwinism which we which we conceived of

01:27:46.600 walking up a hill towards the uh the the dog and fox in wimbledon village in october 2023 as i as i as

01:27:53.740 i remember um so so so there's that so so yeah excellent thank you very much dr denny a closing

01:28:00.220 thoughts on a shill please uh closing thoughts um irrespective of what's going to happen in 10 20 30

01:28:06.560 years australia is about a decade and a half behind the northern hemisphere as far as i can tell in most

01:28:11.420 everything so we're just getting a glimpse of what our future is going to look like we've we've just

01:28:16.640 introduced sex self-idee over here just to give you an idea of where we're at in the work journey

01:28:20.380 um all i have to say is um have babies how about that try that please have baby intelligent if you're

01:28:30.880 intelligent please have babies all right well the type of people who watch brokernomics will most

01:28:36.500 certainly be in that category so uh so there we go are going to be in that category so have you

01:28:43.520 shield something yet i'm not sure i heard a shit in that i haven't no uh twitter at dr danny s i also

01:28:49.480 have a sub stack and all things nice um that's all come and follow me i try to say interesting and

01:28:56.040 sensible things and try to work my thoughts out in real time so i think you did that very well um

01:29:01.100 ollie closing thoughts on a shill please if you would sir yes okay well i i would say um as we i

01:29:07.280 think we all can see agree that times are going to get harder and things get more stressful i really

01:29:11.600 would recommend don't just submerge yourself in politics but try and find some sort of spiritual

01:29:16.120 i would plug catholicism or his christianity to the to the public because uh you can't really

01:29:22.200 survive these kind of ultra high stress situations about it uh my shill is i suppose because i could

01:29:27.300 just plug ed's books which i could co-write but i i would i'm also the developer for uh uh two

01:29:32.420 companies that legiont and the german partners like blitzvissen uh i'm getting around to adding

01:29:37.520 monthly subscriptions eventually i'll put that in the code and then i'll publish it and uh there's a

01:29:42.080 mobile app coming we've just published it on the german site so uh stay in tune for that i think

01:29:46.620 what does legiont do what what does legiont do tell them what legiont does

01:29:50.440 always audiobook summaries of uh base books basically i mean well some of them base some

01:29:54.880 of them are libertarian but i don't know so he's a publisher yeah yeah it's like a blinker

01:29:59.860 yeah very good very good right well um thank you very much everybody for that engaging conversation

01:30:07.580 and um thank you very much for for tuning in um you know my uh my patrons it wouldn't be possible

01:30:13.920 without you and um cheerio

01:30:16.920 you

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - August 12, 2025

FREEMIUM： Brokenomics ｜ Sex, Feminism & the Death of Civilisation debate

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