It's a Friday night, and there's no news to talk about, but we're here anyway. We're joined by Andrew Heaton and Seamus Coughlin, and they talk about the global food shortage and the politics of Liechtenstein.
00:00:15.000But we were making a joke earlier that back in the day, they used to actually say that because they'd be like, there's not really any news, so let's just take the day off and send out the message to everybody and let them know nothing's happening.
00:00:23.000But there's always got to be something happening.
00:00:25.000And we're just chilling on a Friday night.
00:00:27.000The truth is, yeah, there's a lot of news and stink bugs, I guess.
00:02:07.000But if it were like a Monday around 11 a.m.
00:02:09.000to 1143 a.m., I'm very funny during that slot.
00:02:13.000And I host a show called The Political Orphanage, which is a podcast designed for people that don't feel like they're being catered to by red team versus blue team media.
00:02:45.000We released a cartoon yesterday on the industrial military complex, and now they're constantly using World War II nostalgia to get people invested in new meddling in other countries and new policies of meddling in other countries, and I think you guys will enjoy it.
00:03:23.000So within like 40 hours, I just, I dodged like a serious cold.
00:03:27.000I could feel it coming on and I was just like, nope, not going to eat the dry food because it was making me dehydrated.
00:03:32.000The funniest thing was that we had Congressman Randy Weber, who's on the Energy Committee and he's, you know, when the Republicans win, he'll be the chair.
00:03:39.000And I was just like, the one time Ian really needs to talk about graphene.
00:03:54.000Ian was out sick, and here I was, filling in for him, not taking the empty spot, but sitting in his desk with the microphone he breathes into right in my face, knowing he was sick.
00:04:33.000I have been watching all the Ukraine footage.
00:04:35.000I've been watching all the breathless fighting between Republicans and Democrats, and I think the actual fissures are deeper and different than that.
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00:09:01.000They lifted up the rudders and then they just drove really fast.
00:09:04.000Like they just raked the top of it because they don't have any personal gain in it.
00:09:08.000And then like, of course, that meant that all of the bushels of wheat declined and everybody started starving to death in Ukraine.
00:09:15.000The other thing they would do is they would go to the guy who knows how to farm, kill him, and then take someone who didn't know how to farm and put him in charge.
00:09:49.000And they killed about a quarter of the population doing that.
00:09:52.000And they literally, they'd go, okay, the annual crop yield of the average hectare of farmland in Cambodia, let's say it's like eight bushels or something.
00:09:59.000They went, all right, from now on everybody has to do 40 bushels.
00:10:01.000And people would go, uh, hi, I'm Steve Doerr.
00:10:28.000When he was giving his national address and then just pulls an empanada out from a drawer and bites it really slowly and then puts it back On TV for everyone to watch.
00:10:38.000This is how great capitalism is, because capitalism is like, what are we worried about?
00:11:29.000She clearly didn't sit through any of the classes.
00:11:31.000That drives me nuts, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life having to go, no, the definition of socialism is the government owns the means of production.
00:11:55.000The distinction between communism and socialism.
00:11:56.000Some people say that communism is the end state and socialism comes in between.
00:12:00.000Others say that communism is when the government completely controls culture and economy, whereas under socialism they're just controlling economy.
00:12:11.000They say socialism is an economic system and communism is a political system.
00:12:15.000In socialism, you can have a variety of social issues, you can have a variety of, you know, like church or gay marriage, but the economic system is the means of production are owned by the people, and they believe in full-out socialism, there is like, there's no, you know, there would be no, I don't wanna say no currency, But there's no private trade of goods, whereas communism is everyone's equal on every issue.
00:12:42.000So communism includes issues like gay marriage, whereas socialism is just economic.
00:12:46.000So would it be like socialism is to communism as capitalism is to democracy?
00:12:51.000Yeah, but that is a... Capitalism is the economic state and democracy is the governmental political state?
00:13:16.000But we're also approaching this as Westerners from a liberal democracy.
00:13:20.000Because as Seamus rightly points out, the commies didn't think this way.
00:13:22.000Like if you go back and you look at Soviet manifestos, like back in the 80s, you see like The Soviet premier would say, we believe we can achieve communism in the next 10 years, right?
00:13:32.000So like, to an American, that sounds very odd for the Soviet Union to say it's not communist, but the way commies thought was socialism is our economic policy, communism is when the withering of the state occurs and the proletariat becomes the kind of the end all be all, right?
00:13:47.000The last 30 years, we've made a distinction of socialist countries are socialist countries that are cute that we like, and communist countries are socialist countries that we find scary.
00:13:56.000And capitalism, for those that don't know, is literally just when private individuals have the ability to trade amongst each other.
00:14:04.000It means that capitalism would be you as an individual decide that your labor has value and you decide what you're willing to exchange it for.
00:14:16.000In socialism, you don't get to decide what your labor is worth, you just get what's available.
00:14:20.000Yeah, I mean, central planners determine where your labor should be allocated, and to your point, this is why you constantly hear commies saying that real communism has never been tried, because they're talking about a theoretical end state which has never existed in the real world.
00:14:33.000Gosh, they sure killed a lot of people trying to get there, didn't they?
00:14:35.000Real communists, they did some heavy lifting to try and get there.
00:14:38.000Also, this is hilarious because they say communism works, and then they say real communism's never been tried, and how on earth could you know if it works if it's never been tried?
00:14:44.000Well, it sounds like they tried it for a hundred years and failed.
00:14:47.000Yeah, they failed to achieve their end goal.
00:14:49.000Well, you could... I mean, like... Sounds so weird for me to say.
00:14:52.000I think they could be right if you tried it with a hundred and fifty people, and anybody in that group could leave whenever they wanted.
00:14:59.000But that only happens in communism, because it's not coercive.
00:16:44.000So I think it's fair to say there's a distinction between you open up a cracker factory and the government's like, no, no, no, we control how this operates.
00:16:51.000Because it's going to be equal for the people.
00:16:52.000So you would make the distinction between economic productivity or just economic production versus services?
00:16:58.000Well, not necessarily services, because services could be anything.
00:17:01.000I mean, delivery services, the post office.
00:17:03.000I just think it's fair to say that the fire department is not socialism.
00:17:07.000The fire department isn't the means of production.
00:17:20.000Occasionally people will call me from NPR and be like, you want to come talk about this?
00:17:23.000There are some questions about why it's important the fire department be sort of nationalized, sort of private.
00:17:31.000A lot of areas that have volunteer fire departments, they do because they don't have the resources to sustain large salaried fire departments.
00:17:38.000But one of the issues with fire departments, as to why it might make sense to have it be sort of like a, you know, look, we're going to cover all fire, is because fire spreads.
00:18:04.000So that's a situation where it makes sense to have some kind of adjudicating service.
00:18:08.000But if I want to make and sell shoes, having the shoe department where you've got to go apply at the government office and then pass some affirmative action test or diversity test, and then they allow you to be a shoemaker, that's a problem.
00:18:22.000And if there were a federal shoe department and you and I came in and went, you know, we think the private sector could probably handle this, people would think we're monsters.
00:18:31.000If I said we should privatize the federal shoe department because the Milwaukee public factory makes way too many left shoes and the Oregon factory makes insufficient right shoes so we're making people wear two left shoes, I think the private sector could handle this.
00:18:45.000People would go, you want people to walk around barefoot in America and you're a monster.
00:18:49.000The problem with the Department of Education, people want that ended and I think privatized or at least sent around localized, is that when it's no longer federalized, then how do you organize it?
00:19:01.000How do you make sure everyone's getting like a similar shoe size?
00:19:03.000How do you make sure that your size 11 is the same as his size 11 if you're different companies?
00:19:08.000Arguably, it's not doing it now, right?
00:19:11.000The federal government basically just tries to bribe state education departments with grants, like with No Child Left Behind and that kind of thing, but the actual curriculum is still done at the state level and the funding is done at the local level.
00:19:22.000I mean, the Department of Education has only been around since the late 1970s, so it's not as if this is integral to our public education system.
00:19:29.000And even if it was, it would still probably be bad because our public education system is horrible.
00:19:37.000If the private sector, if we just had like charter schools, and that was all the schools in America right now, and we were looking at test scores, people would go, man, the private sector's really failed.
00:19:50.000Well, so that's the way I describe it, is with these social programs, Uh, well, I'll start by saying all laws should have sunset clauses, you know, all bills being passed through Congress.
00:19:59.000And the same is true for all social programs.
00:20:01.000I like the idea that we're like, okay, we got a serious issue, right?
00:23:45.000And they send in lying orderlies to come in every day and go, Ah, yes, Mr. President, we did as you said and we firebombed Lisbon or whatever.
00:23:53.000And they just give him like a... He's living in Truman's show for the last three years of his life.
00:23:59.000I think it's a great thing to do with dictators.
00:24:15.000A lot of people recommended that, or a lot of the left was saying about Trump, you know, put him in a fake White House, and then just film it and do a reality show where he thinks he's president.
00:24:22.000Yeah, part of me thinks that's what's happening with Biden.
00:24:25.000You know, like, he's sitting there thinking he's playing video games, but Kamala handed him a controller that's not plugged in, and she's actually the one doing it.
00:25:25.000So they're technically the ones doing things, but it's like without a nucleus, without a cohesive core guiding you, like, you know, for all of Donald Trump's faults, he was telling people to do things, you know, and they would do them and things worked out.
00:25:38.000Now Joe Biden is muttering to himself at the time and they're just pressing random buttons hoping something happens.
00:25:44.000Look, you look at the Afghanistan withdrawal.
00:25:46.000Who in their right mind would be like, we're going to withdraw from the Bagram Air Force Base in the middle of the night without telling the Afghan security forces?
00:25:54.000Then we're going to try and evacuate people through the civilian airport once everyone's found out.
00:25:59.000If our main goal is just to do it on the anniversary of 9-11, if that's the top goal, it makes sense.
00:26:04.000If you're just doing it for symbolic purposes, if that's your top deal.
00:26:09.000I looked at the 2020 election and I thought America had a choice between getting on a train that keeps getting lost or getting on a train that hits cows for fun.
00:26:19.000I thought it was a really, really bad choice that we all had to make on that one.
00:26:24.000This is the problem with first-past-the-post voting systems.
00:26:40.000I'm definitely not voting for Hillary Clinton.
00:26:42.000When 2020 came around with critical race theory and everything that was going on, and then Trump released his, you know, second-term campaign positions, I was like, I'll vote for that.
00:27:08.000Open borders is a Koch brothers proposal.
00:27:10.000On behalf of the neoliberal shills, we rather like open borders.
00:27:14.000We've been in favor of that for a while.
00:27:16.000So with Bernie, you've got a guy who's supported by a lot of working class guys.
00:27:20.000He says on stage at a debate, the gun control debate is an urban versus rural issue, and people in Vermont like guns.
00:27:27.000So it's not Democrat, Republican, or whatever.
00:27:29.000There are Democrats who like guns, and I'm like, you know, I appreciate hearing this.
00:27:32.000And back then I was not a staunch 2A absolutist for the most part.
00:27:37.000I was like, I think there's some reasonable discussion there, but it felt reasonable because I know that people who live in rural areas have a different expectation on guns.
00:27:44.000So I lived in rural, you know, outside of Miami in the Redlands back in, I think this was 2015.
00:27:51.000And so I understood what was going on in the neighborhood as to why people liked guns.
00:27:55.000There were illegal immigrants who were committing crimes and killing people, and it happened in this area, and so all of a sudden I'm like, I think I understand why people are having these conversations.
00:28:05.000But Bernie Sanders, you know, just quickly went full-on neoliberal, Democrat establishment, Hillary Clinton, open borders, and I was like, I don't even know what the guy stands for at this point other than having a bunch of houses and saying, if you want to have several houses, you can write a best-selling book too.
00:29:39.000Trump said recently that he was talking to Putin and said, if you go into Ukraine, I'll hit Moscow, I'll nuke Moscow.
00:29:44.000And he's like, yeah, he believed me a little bit, maybe 5, 10 percent, but it's enough, right?
00:29:49.000I don't like that idea that our president is going to be like, I'll kill 10 million civilians.
00:29:54.000But then you look at, you know, what Trump was actually doing during this whole conflict.
00:29:58.000We saw the crushing of ISIS, which Russia was probably like, OK, well, you know, this guy's not crushing my allies like the Obama administration was doing with Syria and basically arming the rebels in the Middle East.
00:30:09.000When he was talking about withdrawing from NATO, which would be very pleasing to Russia, right?
00:30:12.000So if I was Russia and the president was talking about withdrawing from NATO, I would not want to antagonize NATO because I wouldn't want to give them a rationale to continue existing.
00:30:18.000Except if you understand Trump, you understand he plays what's called the big ask.
00:30:22.000What Trump was saying, and many argue he saved NATO.
00:30:25.000Trump went to NATO and said, you're not paying your fair share for military, and you're expecting the American people to do it.
00:30:32.000I hear that, and I'm like... That is true.
00:30:41.000And if Russia encroaches on them, we have to foot the bill for them, while the people here talk crap about us, because look at those countries and everything they get.
00:30:49.000It's like, yeah, because our troops are over there, and they shouldn't be.
00:30:52.000Well, what ends up happening is they start paying a little bit more.
00:30:55.000What did Trump say when he went to this NATO meeting and he said, Germany, you're dependent on Russia.
00:31:07.000So the reason why I think Vladimir Putin didn't invade Ukraine partly is because Trump is a bit What's the right word for unpredictable and a little crazy, right?
00:31:37.000The United States liked ISIS, the government did, because it was destabilizing the Assad regime, and the United States and Western powers wanted to build a pipeline through Syria, so it was also convenient for the West to be like, uh-oh, we accidentally gave weapons to a bunch of jihadis!
00:31:53.000You can say, for better or for worse, the drone strikes and all that stuff, but ISIS was decimated under Trump.
00:31:58.000So of course Vladimir Putin isn't invading.
00:32:00.000The one way these leftists like to put it is they're like, because Trump was playing to Putin's agenda, and I'm like, crushing ISIS, staying out of Ukraine's affairs, and actually, like, allowing things to semi-stabilize, like the Abraham Accords?
00:32:13.000Oh, it's no wonder Putin was so upset.
00:32:15.000But if you're like, that's Putin's agenda, what's your agenda?
00:34:33.000Take a look at Keystone Pipeline getting shut down.
00:34:36.000May I add a little bit to your Russian timeline here?
00:34:42.000First of all, to key off of something you're bringing up, something that I'm very much bothered by in American discourse right now is the phrase Putin-apologist.
00:34:49.000Now, I don't like Putin, and if you do like Putin, you're a Putin-apologist, and you're wrong, and you deserve a program.
00:34:55.000But if you're just saying, like, I don't think it's a good idea for NATO to indefinitely expand, and because Putin would agree with you, you're a Putin-apologist.
00:35:04.000Like, if you were opposed to going into Iraq, Are you a Saddam apologist?
00:35:08.000Like, I think in retrospect, we're like, that was a really bad idea.
00:35:11.000But I think a lot of the same voices that are kind of this neocon muscular liberalism are going, well, if you're saying anything other than my militant proposals, you are a Putin apologist.
00:35:19.000And it's like, no, there's more than two options.
00:35:21.000And one of them is like, it might be an imprudent idea.
00:35:26.000So I look at Russia, and I see this more from a realist perspective, which is that there are great powers.
00:35:34.000We're concerned about the interplay of powers, the power dynamics.
00:35:37.000Russia views Ukraine almost like we view Canada, if all of our historic enemies had marched through Canada to try to murder us over 300 years.
00:35:45.000And they were very upfront that, like, we will view any annexation of Ukraine into NATO as an existential threat.
00:35:52.000Very similar to how we would feel if Canada joined Russia in an alliance.
00:37:00.000They already have the military stuff there that they need, so if it's additional moves that they're doing, it's because they are concerned about how the country's pivoting, and they're afraid it might go in a different direction.
00:37:11.000And then you have in 2021 now that Biden's... So Trump did agitate Russia at one point because he authorized arms sales to Ukraine.
00:37:19.000And he fired 59 Tomahawk missiles into Syria.
00:37:23.000So he's not like completely isolationist in that regard.
00:37:26.000Once Biden gets into office, we have Anthony Blinken as the Secretary of State.
00:37:29.000We also signed a U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation agreement, which is further attempting to bring Ukraine into our orbit.
00:37:38.000And then we sealed the deal, I think it was in November of last year, by doing joint naval exercises with Ukraine and the Black Sea, which would again be like if Canada did naval exercises with Russia and Lake Superior.
00:37:50.000At that point, I think that's where the camels, the straws broke the camels back.
00:37:57.000I think one of the reasons Vladimir Putin didn't invade Ukraine, one of them, is that Donald Trump stumbled upon the corruption of Joe Biden in Ukraine when he did that phone call, and the perfect phone call, they say, or he says, when he said, look, you know, I saw this video about Joe Biden bragging about withholding aid or whatever.
00:38:15.000If you could look into that, what was that all about?
00:38:17.000And I don't think Donald Trump really knew what that was all about.
00:38:20.000Just something he saw on the internet.
00:38:46.000There was an email that came out where it was, you know, like Devin Archer and Hunter Biden, his associates.
00:38:53.000I want to be careful here because I don't have the specifics pulled up, but it was Hunter Biden and his associates talking about how they're going to be splitting up one of their business dealings.
00:38:59.000And they said, and I'll take an extra 10% for the big guy or something to that effect.
00:39:03.000And everyone believes that's Joe Biden because, you know, it's Joe Biden's the guy who controlled all the influence.
00:39:09.000We know that Joe and Hunter Biden shared bank accounts.
00:41:13.000Joe Biden could become embroiled in the FBI's probe into Hunter's finances.
00:41:16.000Experts say emails reveal they shared bank accounts, paid each other's bills, and the president may have even funded his son's 2018 drug and prostitution binge.
00:41:26.000Now, if Hunter Biden is getting money, working for an energy company which has no business, And he's sharing a bank account with his dad and a prosecutor is investigating that company.
00:41:37.000And then his dad comes in and says, fire him or I'm going to withhold U.S.
00:42:12.000It's called Biden Inc., that the Biden family fortunes track alongside his political career.
00:42:17.000When Joe Biden was put in charge of Iraq under Obama, all of a sudden his brother's getting these lucrative contracts for construction in the country.
00:42:23.000Now you have Hunter Biden working at a company in which everyone knows he has no business working at, no expertise, doesn't speak the language, sharing bank accounts.
00:42:32.000Joe Biden comes in, gets the prosecutor who's investigating the founder, gets him fired, threatening to withhold funds from the US government he has no right to do, beyond abuse of power.
00:42:47.000And now here we are with many people in this country still believing Trump was the one who was wrong for trying to get rid of that corruption.
00:42:53.000Now, truth be told, I don't think Trump is a great detective who was like, I must do what's right and save this country over this.
00:42:59.000No, I think Trump saw a meme video, a meme that went viral of Joe Biden saying, son of a bitch, guy got fired.
00:43:20.000policy on Ukraine was that we were, it's not just Ukraine, it's Syria, it's the Middle East, the Qatar-Turkey pipeline was, we are going to destroy Russia's ability to control natural gas into Europe because gas is too expensive and we're going to do it by any means necessary.
00:43:33.000In 2009, It was reported by The Guardian, I believe in 2012, that in 2009, the U.S.
00:43:37.000government had stated, we wanted to invade Syria because Bashar al-Assad was blocking our allies from building a pipeline through Syria and Turkey, specifically because Syria said, we are allies with Russia and we won't allow it.
00:43:49.000Then, we ended up with our adversaries, I think it was Iran, saying they could tap the same gas field and run it through Iraq and into Europe and strengthen Russia's gas monopoly.
00:44:33.000policy on Ukraine was to gain control to reduce the cost of energy for our European allies, it appears that Joe Biden and many other high-profile individuals saw that and said, it's time to wet our beaks a little on this one.
00:44:44.000Get our family members in there so we can cut a profit while it's all going down.
00:44:48.000What is fascinating about this, and what I'm very much enjoying about this, in addition to learning a lot, is right now most of the debate happening in foreign policy circles in the United States is between realists, which is what I was talking about earlier, power, billiard balls, Otto von Bismarck, that kind of thing, realists, right?
00:45:05.000And liberals, which in an IR context, don't think American liberals, think institution builders, NATO, European Union, WTO, right?
00:45:13.000Those are the two big fights right now.
00:45:15.000One of the other schools of foreign policy that's not a big part of the American experience at the moment.
00:45:20.000And don't freak out when I use this word, but it's Marxist.
00:45:22.000So Marxist IR theory is that it's not about power, it's not about institutions, it's about money.
00:45:28.000That you can look at international relations and you can understand them by looking at the ruling class of a country enriching itself.
00:45:35.000And this is fascinating, Tim, because, and I'm not trying to throw any socialist aspersions at you, I'm just saying, like, your heuristic window is more economically motivated, so you've got a very different interpretation of this than most of the other news I've been consuming lately, and I find it very interesting.
00:45:47.000Well, I mean, I absolutely look at the ideological backing of a lot of this, too.
00:45:52.000Vladimir Putin very much wants to restore the might of the former Soviet empire.
00:45:59.000So very much he's looking at countries like Kazakhstan, for instance, and he's saying, how can I build up my own bloc to compete with NATO?
00:46:06.000But ultimately, I think a lot of people have a simplistic view on things.
00:46:12.000I talk to my friends and I ask them, do you think Vladimir Putin is intentionally trying to kill civilians?
00:46:48.000I think anytime you hear people going, he's mad, that's lazy, right?
00:46:53.000Like, it's possible, but very unlikely.
00:46:55.000Generally speaking, when somebody who's previously made rational, if immoral, unethical decisions, which they're not the same thing, you can be rational and unethical, a la Darth Vader, when somebody has a track record of doing that, you're like, I don't understand what he's doing, he's probably crazy.
00:47:08.000That means that your heuristics are probably off, and you need to reassess what their motivations are.
00:47:50.000I certainly think that for the elites in this country, they view cultural issues as somewhat secondary.
00:47:56.000Like, I don't think Nancy Pelosi knows or cares all that much about what Gen Z thinks culturally.
00:48:01.000I think a lot of it is, how can you control systems?
00:48:05.000But, you know, I think, you know, what I tell people is, when it came to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, I would tell my friends, do you like it that you can work in New York at a media company where you write articles about Brad Pitt's junk and get paid $65,000 a year?
00:48:25.000Are you happy with the amount of money you make in the job you have?
00:48:28.000And they typically are like, well, you know, I probably should make more and so I'm like,
00:48:31.000OK, would you prefer it if you had to, I don't know, shovel coal for $5 an hour?
00:48:40.000I say, OK, let me explain to you why you get to work in New York City, why you get paid
00:48:45.000$65,000 a year to write articles once a week about Brad Pitt's junk.
00:48:49.000Doesn't that seem a little wrong to you?
00:48:51.000Like something's wrong with this system where you basically do nothing of value but you're making, what is that, seven or eight times what people in Mexico or Brazil make?
00:49:06.000It's because the United States, its special interest groups are willing to destroy countries to get cheap fuel and cheap energy.
00:49:13.000And the petrodollar helps us very much so in that We don't need to rely on exports for a strong currency.
00:49:19.000We just point guns at people and say, you better use ours.
00:49:22.000Again, this is interesting, because this is Marxist IR theory.
00:49:25.000Like Marxist IR theory, there's a subset of it called world systems theory.
00:49:28.000And the idea in world systems theory is that there's an industrialized core of capitalist countries, there's a semi-periphery of cheap labor, and there's a periphery of subsistence-level resource extraction.
00:49:39.000And if you're going with world systems theory, then, like, you look at Vietnam, and you're like, well, Vietnam was about annexing or maintaining Vietnam as part of the American economic supply chain.
00:49:48.000It didn't have to do with containment theory, right?
00:49:50.000And, like, how you're interpreting this would fall in line with that.
00:49:54.000I mean, there's a reason why I went down to Occupy Wall Street and was interested in it.
00:49:58.000I think class-based issues are substantially more important than race or identity-based issues.
00:50:04.000One of the problems we have right now in the country is that the left has adopted critical race theory, which it pits people, regular people against each other, poor people against each other.
00:50:18.000You end up with people like Serena Williams, who is one of the wealthiest people on the planet, most famous and most celebrated.
00:50:26.000And she's a victim and she's oppressed.
00:50:28.000And you'll get a homeless white veteran who is an oppressor.
00:50:31.000Now, that system clearly does not make sense.
00:50:33.000Class issues matter substantially more than these ridiculous ideas about privilege.
00:50:52.000In any country in which you're the majority, you're going to have some benefits because people think, look, and act like you more so than other people, immigrants or strangers.
00:50:59.000But they just say it's white privilege, which is extremely reductive when you have someone who's white from South Africa or a white person from Ukraine.
00:51:07.000Luke Rutkowski, who was on the show every so often, he's a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Polish guy, but according to the critical race theorists, he's a person of color.
00:51:33.000I feel like you can reverse engineer critical race theory to look at it as critical theory to see the class structure ripped away because what happened is when slavery ended in the United States, a bunch of people were just descendants of slaves and slaves were dumped onto the streets with no education, no money.
00:51:48.000So their kids had no education, no money, most of them.
00:51:50.000Then their kids tend to have low or little education and money.
00:51:54.000And so we're looking at like the seventh generation now.
00:51:56.000A lot of those families, irrelevant of the skin color, they just happened to, in this iteration of slavery, come from that area of the world.
00:52:03.000So which would be the best way to accumulate multi-generational wealth is home ownership.
00:52:07.000And that was basically precluded up until 30 years ago, 40 years ago.
00:52:10.000And you could argue there is systemic racism in this, but it is a class system.
00:52:15.000Yes, but the economic fallout is the main factor.
00:52:17.000I'll also add this to introduce more complexity to what we're talking about here.
00:52:21.000It wasn't necessarily just a straight line of this group of people not gaining wealth through the generations.
00:52:27.000It's actually the case that prior to the 1960s there were fewer black out-of-wedlock births than there are today by a significant margin.
00:52:36.000And we know one of the best ways to prevent poverty is to ensure that you're married before you have children.
00:52:40.000And so There are things that were done to the black community.
00:52:43.000Some say the war on drugs, some say the war on poverty.
00:52:46.000The Brookings Institute has actually said legal abortion is a big part of it, but there are policies that came much later.
00:52:52.000I think systemic racism absolutely exists, but there's an issue of how the left interprets it, what they think it means, and how far and extreme they go with it.
00:53:06.000You'll talk to one of these critical race theorists about systemic racism, and they'll tell you today You know, that all police are racist or whatever, and I'm like, okay, you gotta stop, you gotta stop, right?
00:53:16.000The average person is substantially less racist, leaning towards not even racist for the most part these days.
00:53:36.000It's where you have the redline trains.
00:53:38.000The real estate companies would isolate certain areas where they would only sell to black people and they wouldn't sell outside, creating these segregated areas.
00:53:45.000Blockbusting is one of the dirtiest and most evil things I've ever heard about.
00:53:50.000It's where these companies would go to a white neighborhood Buy a house, move a black family in, and then go door to door to all the houses and say, there goes the neighborhood.
00:53:59.000You better sell to us before it's too late.
00:54:02.000The people would panic sell at a premium to these companies who would then kick the black family out and sell the whole neighborhood back to white people for a profit.
00:54:14.000That means there are people my age today who are just now, the first generation, getting out of overtly, nowadays, illegal systems that caused damage to people based on their race.
00:54:26.000So what I could say is, yes, obviously today, remnants of that racism still exist in the system.
00:54:47.000Now that we've changed the laws, the solution is class-based.
00:54:50.000Because if the left believes that the black community is disproportionately impoverished, I have an ex-girlfriend who, uh, when we were dating, her father lived, um, I won't say where it is, it's not out her, but her father, if she wanted to call him, she couldn't because he didn't own a phone.
00:55:15.000She was white, by the way, so it was her father.
00:55:17.000But like, if she wanted to get in contact with her dad, she had to call her neighbor and have her neighbor walk over to get her dad, because her dad was that poor.
00:55:22.000And I think that's a good example of like, I don't really feel like saying he had massive privilege really counts.
00:55:27.000Like, that guy that couldn't afford a phone, I feel like is economically underprivileged.
00:55:32.000And I'll give you another example of systemic racism at work in government that's still there.
00:55:37.000When you look at almost all zoning laws, I am most familiar with Los Angeles.
00:55:42.000To plug it, I wrote a book called Los Angeles is Hideous, Poems about an Ugly City.
00:55:45.000So if you don't like LA and you like funny stuff, it's a funny book.
00:55:55.000But in the process of researching these poems that I wrote about Los Angeles, the reason that Los Angeles is the massive sprawling city that it is, is not, it is accidental, but it's not unavoidable.
00:56:05.000The reason that it's so sprawling is that Los Angeles during the, I guess it'd be the 40s and 50s, Basically, like many cities in America, but I'm most familiar that way, went, oh no, black people are moving in.
00:56:18.000We should basically outlaw apartment buildings because it was racist.
00:57:13.000Louis is a city, don't get me wrong, but the greater St.
00:57:16.000Louis area that people refer to is actually a collection of a whole bunch of small cities.
00:57:21.000And so what happened here was A long, long time ago, in St.
00:57:25.000Louis, we ended up with, for a variety of reasons, desegregation comes into play, and there were many white people, and you gotta understand that back in the late 50s and 60s, this country was what, like 92 or whatever percent white?
00:57:38.000So you have these white communities, overtly white, start seeing black families moving into certain areas, and so they decide to start leaving.
00:57:46.000What they did was they moved outside of the city and created their own communities with covenants like, you're only allowed to have 10 houses in this city, can't build anymore to make sure no one else could move in.
00:57:58.000Long story short, by today, we have 90 plus jurisdictions, each with their own police department.
00:58:04.000What ends up happening is that many of these areas that are impoverished, and there is a tie between the black community and historical poverty for a variety of reasons like blockbusting and redlining, and we know that homeownership is one of the ways that people transfer wealth, I mean, what we would call systemic racism, right?
00:58:29.000Like, it's a great example of, like, those of us with more, like, libertarian inclinations can go, great, I don't like regulations, and this is a great example of regulations being racist that we can kind of unite out and root them out.
00:58:40.000So what ends up happening is, for racial reasons, we end up with all these jurisdictions.
00:58:45.000Today, so I went down, I was in Ferguson during the Michael Brown riots, and I worked on a documentary, I produced a documentary about what was going on.
00:58:52.000There's something they have called Going On Tour.
00:58:54.000So what happens is, you are in one of these neighborhoods that is predominantly black.
00:58:59.000You're lower income, for a variety of reasons.
00:59:02.000You have a vehicle and your plate is expired.
00:59:05.000That's 20 bucks to get your plate re-registered.
00:59:10.000You've got debt, you've got credit cards, so you decide, do I eat, do I pay gas, or do I get my plate fixed?
00:59:15.000You say, well look, I gotta eat, I gotta pay my rent, I can hope I don't get pulled over for my plate.
00:59:21.000You drive from... In order to go to work, you're likely going to drive through two or three different cities, because there are these small jurisdictions.
00:59:30.000They would leave their neighborhood, and while they're driving, they get pulled over, and the cop says, your plate's expired, here's your ticket, have a nice day.
00:59:37.000They start driving again, they get pulled over ten minutes later, plates expire in a different jurisdiction, and it keeps happening.
00:59:44.000Then, finally, when they're like, I couldn't pay the twenty bucks, I can't pay the hundred, what happens is they'll get arrested.
01:00:55.000With a lot of these people, because of past racism, we see a disproportionate amount of people who are impacted by a lot of these policies being black.
01:01:05.000The left today, even though we've already passed laws outlawing all this stuff, and we have court precedent outlawing it, they look at white people and they turn it into a racism issue they can't let go.
01:01:16.000I certainly understand there were racist white people who made racist laws, right?
01:01:21.000The challenge now is, if we're going to do away with racism, we can't have other people being racist.
01:01:28.000More racism doesn't stop racism, it's just making more racism.
01:01:31.000That's why I keep telling people the solution to these problems is class-based.
01:01:35.000Meaning, if your income level is at a certain rate, then we provide you with certain relief.
01:01:39.000Because like I said, if they genuinely believe that systemic racism disproportionately impoverished black communities, then a class-based solution disproportionately benefits black communities without leaving behind And you can have laws which are colorblind, which I think is a lot of the reason we have so much animus going on in the country right now.
01:01:56.000To our great credit, most Americans aren't racist.
01:01:59.000Most Americans actually really abhor the concept of racism.
01:02:03.000And a lot of the fight we're having right now is that we have dueling definitions of racism.
01:02:07.000So I would say, and I think you guys are probably on board with this, that attributing rights, privileges, or guilt to someone based on skin color is inherently racist.
01:02:24.000So we're going for like equality of opportunity and we can acknowledge that not everybody has the same starting position and we need to be trying to rectify that.
01:02:34.000When these culty leftists ideologues come out and say that, you know, I think, you know, we have to solve this problem of racism with equity, they don't really care about the issues of racism.
01:02:47.000They just know that people in America don't like racism and they found a way to exploit something that is morally repugnant.
01:02:54.000What they offer them is, I'm going to call you anti-racist.
01:03:01.000Then they say, okay, be a racist and support segregation.
01:03:04.000And these weak-willed people agree to it.
01:03:06.000They agree to, we've got, in Dearborn, Michigan, we had the non-POC and the POC segregated digital cafes.
01:03:13.000Up in Wisconsin, we have the non-POC, POC equity trainings.
01:03:18.000In California, they actually tried to repeal their civil rights Yeah, right.
01:03:25.000And California, to its credit, went, wait a minute, you, like, just to be clear on this, the government's asking us if we want to authorize giving rights and privileges based on skin color?
01:03:34.000Like, literally, that's what the government was doing.
01:03:36.000That should be like a red flag nationally.
01:03:37.000But they literally said, we would like to discriminate on the basis of race, and the Californian people were like, yeah, no, we're not going to allow that.
01:05:05.000They didn't like the idea, and I think it was Reagan, it was California, and they were like, we should have gun control.
01:05:10.000And it's funny, because I get these lefties, these leftists, overt leftists, who are like, Tim Pool talks about... You know, someone tweeted at me, because I said something like, more guns for everyone, and someone replied, and they were like, yeah, but as soon as the Black Panthers have guns, you start complaining, and I responded with, I want the Black Panthers to have all the guns.
01:07:40.000I think you could look at, say, like You can look at the Democratic coalition and broadly speaking it is a coalition of leftists and liberals.
01:07:49.000And the Republican coalition is a coalition of classical liberals, the libertarian, what we would call libertarian generally.
01:08:06.000That is a coalition of classical liberals and anarchists.
01:08:10.000And the interesting thing is that constitutional conservatives are intellectual cousins with liberals.
01:08:17.000But leftists are a completely different intellectual lineage, right?
01:08:19.000Leftists are a whole different ballpark.
01:08:21.000Whereas, I don't know, Mike Lee and Adam Gopnik are both coming out of that Adam Smith, John Locke.
01:08:27.000They're coming out of the Enlightenment, right?
01:08:28.000It's like liberals are like they have that enlightenment background and the distinction between liberals, broad libertarians and conservatives tends to be are we prioritizing like egalitarian over meritocracy and are we like what are we prioritizing but they're operating that same space but yeah like leftists are a completely different ballpark.
01:08:45.000Is that the liberal economic order like 1946 they start this that's the that's the leftist?
01:08:51.000No, no, I would say like leftists like because like liberals and I'm again I'm using this like making I'm getting real granular here right like liberals as opposed to leftists are believe in a market economy and rule of law right like like they are like they're they're coming at their capitalists the the difference is that they're probably more bullish in terms of The efficacy of government regulation than, say, like your average conservative.
01:09:34.000Within the right sphere of influence, it's amazing because of how vast and wide-reaching it is.
01:09:40.000You've got the politically homeless, which are, these are not classical liberals.
01:09:44.000You know, Dave Rubin likes to say, you're a classical liberal, a classical liberal.
01:09:47.000And I think he means that colloquially, not in terms of the actual philosophy of classical liberalism.
01:09:53.000I think, maybe not today, but initially I thought he was, I think what he was really referring to is a liberal from like the 90s, a 90s Democrat, a Bill Clinton or a Donald Trump.
01:10:04.000And so a classical liberal to a lot of people, because I had this conversation.
01:10:07.000He means liberal comma classic, like classic Coke?
01:10:20.000But the politically homeless we see, a lot of these people are social liberals, which is a center-left libertarian position, which is where I am a little bit.
01:10:28.000And that's where I can say things like, I believe there's systemic racism.
01:10:32.000I just think the leftist cult of, you know, political racism... But you're very much against censorship, right?
01:11:06.000Okay, so can we make a distinction here, too?
01:11:07.000There's a difference between cultural censorship and government censorship.
01:11:11.000I'm going to say with government censorship, to the extent that you are suppressing a willful, active call for violence, in the sense that, like, if I tried to literally have people come kill you, that would be something you could... You're not expressing an opinion.
01:11:24.000You're just precipitating a crime, right?
01:11:29.000I think as far as the government is concerned, you have ultimate freedom of expression and ultimate freedom of opinion.
01:11:34.000Any opinion you have is legally valid.
01:11:36.000The government should never suppress your opinion.
01:11:38.000Now that's different than a culture, right?
01:11:40.000A culture is a little bit more different because culture is like, well, maybe I don't want to have you on my platform because I just don't like you, right?
01:11:45.000Or maybe it's bad for my bottom dollar.
01:11:47.000I can give you a really good example, and it's thanks to our good friend Ian, who's enlightened me a lot on this stuff.
01:12:46.000My point was just simply, I think when a lot of people say censorship, there's a sort of colloquial definition that is a narrow view of what censorship is.
01:12:53.000And that is someone expressing their opinion, having a discussion, and they get shut down by one of these platforms.
01:13:27.000It's not an imminent threat of violence.
01:13:28.000If it was imminent, if you were like, on Thursday at 2 p.m.
01:13:31.000you should fill in the blank, then that's illegal.
01:13:33.000I think if you were to take that logic to the nth degree, if you think a zygote is a child, then you would be able to suppress pro-choice rhetoric because it would be killing children, right?
01:13:42.000Yeah, I mean, and I do believe, as I go to child, I think that if someone's speaking pro-choice talking points, it makes sense to have an argument, especially because a lot of people aren't as informed on the science there, but when it comes to directly saying that people should be able to do things that directly harm children with respect... But if I was an abortion doctor and I said, I think we should have abortions, right?
01:14:02.000In your worldview, I would be saying we should be killing babies.
01:14:08.000I think there's a difference, that's actually a really good question, I'm gonna think about that, but I think there's a difference between that and arguing in favor of CEP, no?
01:14:15.000Like if you're actually pushing to legalize it when it's not already legal?
01:14:19.000Pushing to legalize something that's already illegal, well you're allowed to say it should be legal, but if you say do it, and it's an imminent...
01:14:27.000Can I back up a little bit because I want to talk about the culture war briefly?
01:14:31.000I think that it is a complete misnomer to even discuss the culture war in terms of left versus right.
01:14:36.000I think that this is a trick that corporate media does because it knows it can get people fired up because we have been taught to embrace what I call teeter-totter thinking.
01:14:44.000Teeter-totter thinking is if I say something negative about Biden, I must be pro-Trump.
01:14:48.000If I say something negative about Obama, I must be pro-George W. Bush.
01:14:53.000Sometimes they all all suck right? Shout out to Michael Malice. You know when
01:14:56.000he tweets something bad about Biden they're like, well you support Trump. Our
01:15:00.000anarchist friend who thinks all government is illegitimate is not a fan. But I just love it
01:15:05.000when people tweet at him he'll say something about Biden and they'll be like
01:15:08.000well Trump did this and he's like okay. Right again it's not a teeter-totter.
01:16:18.000We had Stephen Marsh on the show, who wrote the book The Next Civil War, and he said, within the United States there is a multicultural democracy and a constitutional republic, and they can't coexist.
01:16:28.000And that's really interesting, too, because you could say that the left culture war faction is a multicultural democracy, and the right is a constitutional republic, and that actually explains disparate political opinions better than left or right.
01:16:40.000Yeah, elaborate on that, because that's fascinating.
01:16:41.000Well, so, you look at someone like Dave Rubin, a gay married man, and Ben Shapiro, and they get along, and it's because they're in the constitutional republic.
01:16:49.000They look at America and its values, and though they disagree on social issues, their core fabric is well within a framework they understand.
01:16:57.000The multicultural democracy doesn't believe in things like republicanism.
01:17:01.000You know, electoral college is a really good example of this.
01:17:07.000They want open borders, multicultural thinking, and that may be an easy way to explain it.
01:17:14.000There is another way that I've explained it, too.
01:17:16.000The Judeo-Christian moral framework versus the fascistic moral framework.
01:17:21.000How we would describe the left is, to quote the late David Graeber, they've adopted tenets of fascism, that there is no truth but power.
01:17:29.000Whereas the Constitutional Republic believes in inalienable rights and a lot of values that are rooted in a Christian moral framework, whether they realize it or not.
01:17:38.000For example, your innocent until proven guilty is It actually comes from the Bible.
01:17:46.000So, I was fascinated by this and I read the history of, I believe this is the Fifth Amendment, right?
01:17:50.000The Fifth Amendment has a couple provisions in it.
01:17:54.000But I was reading about, why is it that in the United States, we take very seriously, you are innocent until proven guilty?
01:18:01.000Well, it actually comes from a quote from Ben Franklin.
01:18:03.000It is better that a hundred guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer.
01:18:06.000That value came to him through Blackstone's formulation.
01:18:08.000It is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer.
01:18:25.000And so people like Bill Maher I find interesting because he's secular, he's an atheist,
01:18:30.000but his moral values are built upon a Christian moral framework, whether he realizes it or not.
01:18:35.000I'm not saying he has to believe in God, or he does, because of this.
01:18:37.000I'm saying the values that were born out of Christianity, he retains those, despite not believing in the actual religion.
01:18:44.000The leftists don't believe in that religion at all, and they have no core moral framework, which is probably why they flip-flop on issues, and there seems to be no cohesive moral pattern to what they do.
01:18:55.000It's why they'll say only white people can be racist, and Candace Owens is a white supremacist.
01:19:02.000There's no clear logical pattern there because there is no root moral framework other than there is no truth but power, which is what David Graeber said.
01:19:11.000He didn't like being called this, but they called him the anarchist anthropologist, and he said that a certain sect of the left has embraced fascistic tenets.
01:19:20.000Can I outline my theory for you, just to convolute this a little bit more?
01:19:25.000So, as I said, I see it like... I know you've brought up on the show before the political compass, right?
01:19:29.000So like the XY axis of like economic versus social, left libertarian, and so on and so forth.
01:19:33.000I would posit there's a separate axis, which is how do you react to negative opinions?
01:19:39.000Or how should society govern negative opinions?
01:19:41.000And if you're coming towards the top of that, you're on the side of pluralism, which is to say, like Dave Rubin and Ben, who I think are a good example of this, I disagree with you, but our society is big enough for people I disagree with.
01:19:52.000We're not going to crack down on that.
01:19:54.000Error is okay within a pluralistic society.
01:20:09.000I think that like, I think that the people that are authoritarians tend to be, they self-soothe through compliance, where when there's a pandemic, it's very important to march around and go, you've got to wear your mask right now, because I am going to self-soothe myself by doing this.
01:20:23.000Or alternately, you can never ever say that, whatever the thing is, you can't say that.
01:20:28.000So one of the things too, in all this, to, you know, to build upon this, For the Constitutional Republic faction, or whatever you want to call it, it seems like we all believe in something greater than ourselves.
01:20:40.000When I say that Seamus has rights, it's because I believe that I am not God.
01:20:59.000I don't necessarily think that's inherently rooted in Christianity.
01:21:03.000It's rooted in an idea that the universe is bigger than you.
01:21:06.000But you look at what the modern left tribe or multicultural democracy view is, and it's, if I can take the power, I should.
01:21:14.000And so it seems like their moral framework is not built upon whether or not another person has individual rights, which is why, once again, there seems to be no logic to whatever morality they claim to have.
01:21:24.000It seems like they're willing to just say what they need to say to gain power, which is why you end up with Instagram accounts or Twitter accounts like Defiant L's, where very often we'll get a tweet from a mainstream left personality saying, you know, we should do X, and then a tweet from them later saying X is evil.
01:21:43.000You'll get people saying, you know, war is wrong, or Donald Trump is going to lead us into World War 3, he's a madman and we need to impeach him, and then Joe Biden absolutely should be implementing a no-fly zone, even if it starts World War 3.
01:21:53.000There's no logical consistency there, other than if it gains me power, I can do it.
01:21:58.000My worldview is, I have no right to usurp power from other people by force or through manipulation, because there is something bigger than me.
01:22:05.000Well, since we're fans of convoluting things, I want to convolute this even further.
01:22:09.000So, when it comes to this idea of a political compass and the culture war, part of where it gets really confusing is that it seems to me as if right now, and for the past several years, it has more or less been the case that at least when it comes to many social and economic issues, the left is more authoritarian, the right tends towards something a little more libertarian, but not necessarily fully libertarian.
01:22:30.000But it seems as if whichever group on the right or left has power will become more authoritarian.
01:22:37.000And so it's something that each side will jump to and from.
01:22:41.000And also what a person views as being authoritarian or non-authoritarian is totally informed by whether they're on the right or left.
01:22:48.000So for example, when you're talking about the masks, And the vaccines and these other COVID lockdowns.
01:22:52.000Someone on the left is going to say, well, that's not authoritarian at all.
01:22:55.000I'm actually protecting the little guy.
01:22:57.000Or if you look at even something like economic issues, they'll say, well, by increasing taxes on large corporations, I'm not telling people who are voluntarily exchanging goods that they're not allowed to do that and acting as an authority.
01:23:07.000I'm actually protecting the little guy because he doesn't have as much leverage.
01:23:10.000So for me, it's difficult to separate the left and right from authoritarianism slash libertarianism.
01:23:16.000But also it's difficult for me to define exactly Where they're connected.
01:23:20.000But let me just say, there's a reason why when you look at polls, independents and moderates
01:23:26.000tend to have similar world views to conservatives.
01:23:53.000If you were sitting down and you had Stephen Colbert on one side and Ben Shapiro on the other, who do you think would tell you the truth and nothing but the truth?
01:24:02.000You know, I actually really like Colbert.
01:24:41.000I have to put on my Pollyanna hat for a minute.
01:24:45.000I don't think that there is a political ideology in the United States that is just inherently prone to lying or immorality.
01:24:53.000I think most of the people in the United States, be they on the left, the right, the center, independent, whatever, most people are wanting to live in a free, prosperous, peaceful society.
01:25:02.000The argument is how we achieve that goal.
01:25:32.000So we've seen this rising over the past decade or so.
01:25:35.000And that's why I cite David Graeber, because he was the anarchist anthropologist.
01:25:39.000He was a left anarchist who tweeted this out, that they have adopted this tenet of there is no truth but power.
01:25:46.000So you can actually see them come out and overtly lie every step of the way.
01:25:51.000And it's not just the activists who are now being indebted on fraud on more than one occasion, or the BLM offices, which apparently didn't exist and no one was there and the money is who knows where.
01:25:59.000The woman who's got multiple houses, or the woman in Boston who's being indicted on 18 charges of fraud.
01:26:03.000Don't get me wrong, the right has their liars and manipulators, because grifters and conmen and conwomen exist across the board.
01:26:09.000But when you have, consistently, Russiagate's fake, Ukrainegate is fake, the Covington kids thing was a hoax, the Kyle Rittenhouse story fabricated.
01:26:21.000The left was actually putting up stories saying he crossed state lines with a gun to hunt down black people, which was totally fabricated.
01:26:28.000You can go through almost every single story about some hate, some graffiti vandalism hate crime, and it was a tweet between Matt Walsh and, uh, Matt Walsh put up with him and Andy Ngo, and they said, I can't think of any example in recent history in which this turned out to be true.
01:26:40.000Where a white supremacist person was racist and sprayed a swastika or a slur.
01:26:44.000It always turns out to be a hoax across the board.
01:26:47.000What, what, you, Ahmed Arbery is one that really, really gets me, because the conservatives bought into it too.
01:26:53.000You know the story, the guy was jogging, they said, and then the three white guys lynched him or something?
01:26:57.000This is the guy that got shot, the jogger?
01:27:03.000So he ran up to the truck where the two guys were and then tried to take the shotgun from one of the guys and then it went off and hit him in the chest and he was a felony burglary suspect.
01:27:13.000But when you get even conservatives like Fox News coming out and just playing along with the establishment's lies over and over and over again, you got a problem.
01:27:21.000But yeah, I just gotta say, if I talk to Ben Shapiro, he might be wrong about some things, but he tries to be factual.
01:27:28.000And that's not... I'm not saying Ben Shapiro is a perfect human being.
01:27:31.000I'm sure there's things he can't talk about.
01:27:33.000But I keep seeing this as a tendency On the right, the rule is typically honest and the exception is sometimes people lie or get things wrong.
01:27:44.000On the left, the rule is they lie all the time and the exception is some of them sometimes are honest.
01:27:57.000And I'm not saying gay left, but I think it's dangerous to live in a Manichaean world of my team's the good team and we're the holy people and the other team are evil.
01:28:07.000But the reality is... The idea that there's black hats and white hats.
01:28:10.000One of the things I noticed in politics of late is there is a view of the problem is bad people and then the other system is the problem is bad systems.
01:28:20.000So I think that if you take a bad system, you put in good people, you're still going to get negative outcome.
01:28:25.000I don't think that if you just root out all the bad people, all of a sudden everything works well, right?
01:28:29.000So I'm very bothered by the increase in mannequin thinking in the United States, and the idea that there's a bad team and a good team, and if we could just defeat the bad team... So what if the bad team is the institutions and the establishment?
01:29:27.000Fox News went with the factual statement, which is Trump said no quid pro quo and Sondland's opinion is not relevant to what the president actually requested.
01:29:35.000Now when you have those two screens showing the exact opposites, and one is based on the opinion of a guy, irrespective of the fact that Trump said no quid pro quo, that is a lie.
01:29:47.000It doesn't necessarily make it emblematic.
01:29:49.000At a certain point, you have almost every single Black Lives Matter major story that resulted in mass rioting, the defense of the mass rioters, every single lie from the mainstream media, mostly peaceful protests while the police department's burning down.
01:30:01.000At a certain point, if you say, these people aren't inherently bad people, then I think you're actually running defense for people who have been proven time and time again to lie about everything.
01:30:11.000Do I have to say, if I've got a neighbor that's a Democrat, do I have to say he's an inherently bad person?
01:30:35.000Facebook and Twitter used this reporting from mainstream outlets to suppress factual information that was very, very pertinent to this election that was coming up.
01:30:46.000And when you see these activist organizations on the left working in tandem with them, at a certain point you have to be like, yo, they're all in alignment, they're consistently lying to us, and they're destroying and harming people every time they do this.
01:30:58.000Kamala Harris helped bail out people who are riding and burning down buildings.
01:31:03.000Joe Biden launched his campaign on a lie, claiming that Donald Trump defended white supremacists, which he didn't do.
01:31:09.000The media just lied about everything over and over and over again.
01:31:54.000These maps don't even line up, yet they just fabricate the information.
01:31:58.000The amount of fake stories that were, the amount of stories that were fabricated by the Daily Beast about me are absolutely, it's insane to watch.
01:32:06.000But look, outside of me, outside of anecdotes, if you have 800 or 1,000 anecdotes of all of these throughout for the past dozen or so years, they've all kept doing the same thing.
01:32:18.000At a certain point, you have to say, I think this might be data.
01:32:34.000When you say you have all this data, clearly you do.
01:32:37.000Is this data going into a binary framework?
01:32:39.000Like, is it the right, the left, and everybody's on that?
01:32:41.000Do you think there's multiple... Like, for me, I look at it, I think there's like 15 different political tribes in the United States, and we falsely lump them into left versus right, and that lends itself to this manichean thinking of good versus bad, blue versus red, everybody's in one or the other.
01:32:56.000There's two parent spheres of influence.
01:32:58.000What we could describe as the left sphere of influence and the right sphere of influence.
01:33:01.000Within each of these are other disparate factions, often that don't even agree with each other.
01:33:06.000Progressives very much don't like the establishment Democrats, but they're in the same sphere of influence based upon the news they consume, their tendency towards lying, and how they're willing to manipulate to gain power.
01:33:19.000On the right sphere of influence, you have a sort of value and moral honor-based system.
01:34:52.000They will say, by any means necessary, which is actually the name of an organization that engages in overt acts of violence to gain power, they will come to you and they believe they have a right to lie to you if the means are worth it.
01:35:05.000So what will happen is, you'll get someone who will come out, like Jared Holt, who I've been really ragging on because he wrote this fake story about me, And he'll say, Tim Pool was pushing Kremlin backed propaganda about US bioweapons and shady labs in Ukraine.
01:35:26.000Because this is in line with exactly what David Graeber and many other people have pointed out.
01:35:30.000That the left operates under the tenet, there's no truth but power.
01:35:32.000It's fascistic, but it's very much in line with, you know, the blank slate ideology or social constructivism or whatever.
01:35:40.000They believe that if they just create reality by saying things, then they can ultimately... If they can just say lies to formulate a base reality, then ultimately the systems they want will start to exist.
01:35:52.000The right says... It's sort of like this.
01:35:54.000In the right sphere of influence, here's what is, and here's my argument about it, and the left is, I will tell you whatever I need to tell you to convince you to follow my lead.
01:36:49.000You could be an atheist and a Buddhist, right?
01:36:51.000But, like, if you were to say, like, you're a Jew, okay, well, in the Catholic versus Protestant world that we live in, you're very Catholic about tradition, but you're very Protestant about papal infallibility.
01:37:03.000Are you, like, classical liberals are different than European conservatives of the blood and soil variant, which are different than leftists?
01:37:08.000But we're talking about the United States and the media, the parent spheres of influence, and their underlying disparate factions.
01:37:17.000I think there's clearly two major parties.
01:37:19.000You know, there's truly electoral blocks, but they're basically illusionary.
01:37:24.000There's a top-down construct that's being placed on what are actually lots of different tribes of people.
01:37:30.000I don't know, eight and ten, whatever it is, right?
01:37:34.000It sounds to me, though, that you've got, like, a fundamental DNA to both.
01:37:37.000That there's, like, one group has, like, a wellspring of might-versus-might-is-right and fascism, or fascistic thinking, and the other one is honored and moral-based, and they all kind of spring from that?
01:37:49.000Those are just tendencies of the parent factions, right?
01:37:52.000Obviously, within the right sphere of influence, you actually have social liberals who will argue systemic racism, or things that I've said, that clearly people like, you know, conservatives might argue against.
01:38:00.000We don't all completely agree on everything.
01:38:03.000But you take a look at, um... You know, there's a really simple way, you know, to break it down.
01:38:08.000Well, I should say, there's probably not.
01:38:10.000We try to find different ways to understand what these two spheres of influence are, because they clearly exist.
01:38:16.000You know, clearly, Jimmy Dore is called right-wing, even though he's socialist, and it's confusing.
01:38:21.000People call me a conservative, even though I'm, like, pro-progressive tax, pro-choice, and think systemic racism is bad.
01:38:27.000Because left and right signify that you are in line with a certain worldview.
01:38:32.000And I think it's one easy way maybe to understand it is, in the right sphere of influence, or whatever you want to call it, there are people who say, prove it.
01:38:40.000And in the left sphere of influence, there are people who say, tell me what to think.
01:38:45.000I refuse to be put on a spectrum defined by dead Frenchmen.
01:38:48.000Like the whole left versus right thing.
01:38:50.000But I think you're looking too much into it.
01:38:52.000Just because the French Revolution created this concept of left and right doesn't mean that our use of a word to describe a concept is not correct.
01:39:00.000You know, relevant to how we view the world.
01:39:02.000You were saying the people on the right say, prove it, and the people on the left are like, tell me what to think, but what about religion?
01:39:06.000I think the people on the right tend to be the ones that are religious.
01:39:35.000We were actually talking about this earlier because I was playing some Dido music, because Seamus and I were working on this bit, and it auto-played One of Us by, what was her name, Joan Osborne.
01:40:16.000And then it says, how many of you are willing to adopt?
01:40:18.000And all the people are sad, like, brr.
01:40:20.000And I think that's fascinating because when I actually will read articles or read about pro-life organizations, turns out they adopt like crazy.
01:40:31.000Turns out the people who are pro-life actually do adopt and do donate and do try to help kids.
01:40:35.000So why is it that these Democrat voters or pro-choice individuals believe that pro-lifers are out there trying to ban abortion without supporting adoption, which is just fundamentally false?
01:40:47.000It's because once again it falls back into the trope of activists who want something when it applies to the left sphere of influence are willing to lie to you to convince you they're morally just or right, whereas the right doesn't do that.
01:40:58.000There's another thing to point out in this as to why it might be the case.
01:41:02.000Jack Dorsey said this when I was on with Rogan.
01:41:05.000Conservative journalists follow liberal journalists and conservative journalists.
01:41:09.000Liberal journalists only follow liberal journalists.
01:41:11.000It's entirely possible that they're making up their view of conservatives in their own mind.
01:41:18.000Like, so something that I've noticed the last few years, I'm gonna, we're gonna reproach now.
01:41:22.000I do think that in the American context, generally speaking, if a conservative, actually I'm gonna add this, conservative libertarian and liberal, although libertarian and conservative are more similar to each other, If a conservative disagrees with you, they think you're crazy.
01:41:34.000If a libertarian disagrees with you, they tend to think you're ill-informed.
01:42:10.000Being in the middle, they're consuming content from the coasts all the time.
01:42:13.000So they know that they really like Tom Hanks or George Clooney or whoever.
01:42:17.000They know he's a Democrat, but they like him.
01:42:18.000So they can sustain a worldview of I like this person, but I disagree with them.
01:42:23.000But I don't think that's happening with progressive media as much, because they're not going to church or NASCAR or whatever the thing is.
01:42:28.000They're not going to Nashville for country music, so they don't have media they're regularly consuming of counterexamples of someone that I disagree with who I like.
01:42:36.000And so they're able to facilitate these cartoon characters of mustache-twirling evil capitalists.
01:42:40.000Why do they want to get Tucker Carlson pulled off the air?
01:42:43.000Well, we can speculate all day and night.
01:42:46.000I would argue it's because Tucker Carlson is a conservative who has conservative voices on his show, and he regularly invites the left on to debate, and they do.
01:42:53.000There's a reason why many of the people on the left who spread lies all day won't come on this show.
01:42:59.000Because we would show that they're lying.
01:43:10.000And so what's fascinating is I got called conservative because I said Democrats suck.
01:43:16.000And I said, oh yeah, I think Republicans suck too.
01:43:18.000But perhaps it's that growing up in a city that's been run by Democrats for 80 years, you really get mad at this overtly corrupt group that's been lying to you and is just, has been BSing you the whole way.
01:43:29.000But I will say, when I was younger, I voted for Obama.
01:43:32.000I was very much, I went and I would vote, and we'd vote Democrat across the board, and I was totally in line with all of that thinking.
01:43:39.000And then as I started to move out and travel around the world and actually meet people and start reading what people were saying, I said, Hey, wait a minute.
01:43:47.000When they claimed conservatives were outraged about that.
01:43:50.000I talked to conservatives and that's not true.
01:43:53.000A good example is, um, I hung out with a bunch of, uh, atheists, secularists, and they would make a bunch of arguments about Christianity and what conservatives believed.
01:44:05.000And then I'd go talk to a conservative, a Christian conservative, and they would be able to give me answers and actually explain their ideas, and I'd go, oh, those people were lying to me about what you thought, or at least didn't know.
01:44:15.000And so what ends up happening is, I work for Vice, I work for an ABC company, ABC Univision, and then I actually see how evil these people are.
01:44:24.000You know, when I worked for Fusion, this is an ABC Univision company, the president told me, side with the audience.
01:44:30.000And I said, does that mean if there's a factual news story that would be offensive to our audience, we don't report it?
01:44:35.000And he says, I think that's fair, yeah.
01:44:37.000Like, they outright say, look, our audience are young and progressive, so we're going to take their side.
01:44:48.000I'm not gonna frame it or side with them.
01:44:51.000Siding with them means, if I go to a rally and I watch a fight break out between a Trump supporter and Antifa, and Antifa started it, I gotta side with Antifa and say it's the Trump supporter's fault.
01:46:35.000One interesting way to look at it is, in a physical sense... Or actually, another thing I'll add to that, because I do think... I'm not trying to fight with you, Tim, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.
01:46:44.000I have a... I have just kind of... I think by virtue of the fact that I'm from Oklahoma, and I have all these conservative friends, and I lived in New York, and I have all these liberal friends, that I recoil from villain-based thinking.
01:46:58.000And so I tend to go to systemic thinking, right?
01:47:38.000I think... Because you said they were evil a minute ago.
01:47:40.000I mean, it sure sounds like you're attributing those moral values to them.
01:47:43.000I think that... Well, when I described the group, I didn't say, well, you've got good people and evil people.
01:47:49.000I said, no, the right tries to stand on a moral ground, like they're standing tall with their chest out saying, I'm going to be honest and be respectful of you and prove to you I am a good leader.
01:47:59.000And the left says two plus two equals five.
01:48:03.000Have you heard of a guy named Eric Grossman?
01:48:05.000Because I think he'd be interesting to check out.
01:48:07.000He's not saying what you're saying, but it's sort of adjacent to what you're saying.
01:48:11.000So the theory he has is that, and Trump is a big exception to this, but basically over the last 50 years that the Republicans both organize and think ideologically, or think in terms of abstract values, right?
01:48:28.000Hence, the fights in Republican primaries tend to be who's the real Republican, who's
01:48:33.000the real conservative, who's the rhino.
01:48:40.000It would be, well, here are your neocons, here are your libertarians, here are your
01:48:44.000social conservatives, here are your track cons, etc.
01:48:46.000Democrats organize and think coalitionally.
01:48:49.000So Democrats, when you look at how they organize, they're not really looking at it as progressives
01:48:54.000They're looking at it like, well, we've got the Union, we've got Latin Americans, we've got gays, we've got all these.
01:49:00.000They're thinking in terms of the component structure.
01:49:02.000I think a lot of crosstalk happens because when progressives look at conservatives, because they think coalitionally, they see conservatives and go, well, all this ideological stuff has to be a smokescreen.
01:49:13.000You're really just in it for the white guy.
01:49:17.000I think a lot of the time conservatives do that when they look at progressives, where they go, because we think ideologically, you guys must be lying to us, and you must be secretly reading Marxist literature and stuff.
01:49:26.000Whereas, I don't think Biden is that ideological.
01:49:29.000I think that he's thinking in terms of unions, he's thinking in terms of all these things, but I don't think he's an ideologue.
01:49:34.000I gotta be honest, I think you don't know enough about Joe Biden.
01:49:37.000like you weren't aware that he was sharing bank accounts with his son. I think when you when you
01:49:41.000look at all of the stories of the past you know seven years related to his family and the the
01:49:46.000illicit dealings he had to assume that Joe Biden is thinking in terms of the working class is
01:49:51.000completely out of line with the reported character that is Joe Biden. Well I'm not
01:49:55.000I'm just saying in terms of how he thinks, like, an ideologue isn't somebody who's like, I have a theory, I'm really philosophical, that kind of thing.
01:50:01.000I don't think he's super philosophical.
01:50:04.000I think that if he were here, he would say he's pragmatic.
01:50:07.000Now, we could disagree as whether he's effective or not, but I don't think that he's like reading John Locke or reading Lepensky or something like that.
01:50:54.000It's one of the reasons in 2018 the midterms flipped Democrats because people who voted for Trump in 2016 didn't come out and vote for Republicans because they didn't care.
01:51:28.000So, uh, smash that like button if you have not already, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends, and let's just read what people have to say.
01:54:07.000Daft N says, socialism is the ideology, communism is the pure implementation, or socialism respects some existing private property and communism eliminates private property.
01:54:15.000I hear what you're saying, but I do think we kind of hit the nail on the head in terms of, you know, socialism being an economic system and communism being the ideological system, though.
01:54:25.000Alright, let's grab some more stupid chits.
01:56:32.000No one's going to try and sack McMaster Castle.
01:56:35.000Deliopolis says, Tim, do you ever get the feeling that in about 12 months, you'll be talking about Zelensky the same way you talk about Dr. Fauci now?
01:56:56.000And then the other one took a half an hour.
01:56:58.000It's funny because the second one we recorded is gonna be much less intensive with respect to the animation work, but it took a long time to record.
01:57:57.000You know, every time you get someone who thinks they know how to make everything work, they end up just killing everybody.
01:58:01.000The problem is extreme in any direction is bad, because extreme pluralism, you were saying earlier, is to the point where it's like live and let live, to the point where communists or some dangerous entity can come in and set up shop and no one stops them because everyone's so pluralist.
01:59:34.000You know, you're going to stuff it with powder and then put the ball in and then... It's funny that, you know, Joe Biden's like, you can't buy a cannon.
01:59:40.000And it's like, you could always buy a cannon.
02:03:22.000It's like when you have that big mounted gun and then one guy's holding the belt and feeding you and the other guy's doing a butterfly trigger.
02:03:30.000What Nancy Pelosi wanted on January 6th.
02:04:28.000Yeah, one of the stories I was reading about that I love to tell is when a guy was in his tank firing a full auto .50 caliber into his own, like, lake.
02:04:37.000And the cops showed up and then he stopped and he's like, he's like, what can I do for you?
02:04:40.000And the cops were like, is this your tank?
02:05:28.000We can talk about it later, but I've been working with the Foundation for Economic Education for like five years to compress these really complex ideas into short cartoons, so we might not be able to get all of it in there, but I think we can get a really good comprehensive thing done.
02:05:42.000I have a good grasp of an overhead view of a lot of these issues.
02:05:47.000I read Matt Taibbi's reporting on this and he got into the nitty-gritty.
02:05:50.000He pulled up some facts which were absolutely astounding, notably that Victor Shokin, the prosecutor, was investigating Mykola Zlachevsky, which the media denied over and over again.
02:06:00.000And then he came out and said a cursory review of Ukrainian court documents show, I think it was like legal documents, that there were like 12 different active investigations and like several that had been suspended but were still active, like that had been on hold but were still active when Biden came in and did this.
02:06:17.000So we have to pull up a lot of that old research and stuff and make sure we get all the facts right, but we could do it.
02:06:32.000If it was 20 minutes, it would have to be some infographics type thing, and even that's a stretch, but I'm telling you, you can compress some really complex things into short videos if you know how to do the visuals right.
02:08:52.000It was enjoyable because it was one of those nights where I'm like, I'm not saying much, Seamus isn't saying much, but you guys were in it and it was really good.
02:09:07.000Talking about how looking at things from two polarities and looking at things like, I think you said, what was the different circles that are all connecting to each other?
02:09:23.000There are interesting visualizations about how YouTube groups the left and the right.
02:09:29.000The funny thing is, there was this researcher who did an assessment of YouTube channels, left and right, and there were a small handful of channels that were separate from all.
02:09:37.000There was left, center, and right, and then exclusively critical of left.
02:09:41.000And it was funny because I was like, why do you think that?
02:09:44.000You know, how do you come up with that category?
02:09:46.000And it's like, well, you're only criticizing this one group.
02:09:50.000And I'm like, it's just weird that that idea is born.
02:09:55.000Like that worldview is born out of how I describe this.
02:10:00.000If you can't understand that there are people who are on the left that are critical of critical race theory and, you know, that kind of stuff, you're confused by what you're watching and it doesn't fit your worldview, so you have to give it its own isolated... I was like, is it simple enough to just say we're centrists?
02:10:17.000We are people who have left-wing political views and are critical of people that are supposedly on the left, so that's not an exclusively critical of left thing because we also espouse left-wing views?
02:10:27.000I want to make a point here because this is really, really important.
02:10:32.000There are people who exclusively criticize the left, but that is a very different thing to do from a left-wing perspective versus a right-wing perspective.
02:10:40.000So Jimmy Dore criticizes the left from a left-wing perspective and says they're not really standing for the values that they claim to be standing for.
02:11:44.000There's one more thing I want to mention with respect to this.
02:11:46.000Often people saying that they aren't a member of a particular group can, at least in some circumstances, indicate that that group's values.
02:11:53.000It can indicate that no one believes in it anymore.
02:11:55.000It can also indicate that that group's values have become so ubiquitous that people hold their values without acknowledging it.
02:12:00.000So oftentimes people will say things like, You know, I don't believe in feminism, but I believe X, Y, and Z, referring to more, like, classically feminist values.
02:12:09.000And what they're essentially saying is, I give assent to all the things forwarded by feminists a hundred years ago.
02:12:13.000I don't like this current version, but in some sense, they're still promoting feminist assumptions.
02:12:17.000I think the issue is... And it's the same with left-wing assumptions.
02:12:19.000When people criticize the left from the left, they're still promoting left-wing assumptions, so it's not the same thing as being on the right at all.
02:12:24.000Left and right don't actually describe politics, they describe tribes.
02:12:28.000So when someone says, Tim Pool's clearly not on the left, it's because they're referring to tribe, not policy.
02:12:33.000When people say Jimmy Dore is a leftist, but he's a right-winger and they're confused by it, it's because his politics are too similar to theirs, but he doesn't like them or agree with them.
02:12:50.000I think that the political parties and people in power know that it's a lot harder to win elections based on actually coming up with solutions to problems.
02:12:58.000It's a lot easier to get people to vote out of fear and hate.
02:14:19.000That's that division between secular thinking and religious thinking.
02:14:22.000And there are people who completely disagree with that worldview who know the people of institutional power and believe in that worldview will destroy you.
02:14:35.000Joe Rogan, like, he initially got in trouble because he was bringing on different voices regarding vaccines and whatnot, which, by the way, is how you challenge ossified orthodoxy.
02:14:45.000Like, when you've got An opinion that becomes not only ubiquitous but unquestioned.
02:14:52.000That's when you make really bad decisions.
02:14:54.000You need to have people asking questions that challenge orthodoxy.
02:14:57.000And a lot of the time, they're cranks.
02:14:59.000And a lot of the time, they're from the periphery until they're right.
02:15:02.000Because, like, the heliocentric worldview was crank until it was challenged, right?
02:15:59.000But this is why I say, you know, look, at a certain point after, you know, ten years of living through this, you gotta recognize there is, in whatever fashions they are, one is lying all the time.
02:16:10.000The right falls for it sometimes, truth be told, but I can, look, if you go through, name a story from Black Lives Matter with one of their riots that turned out to be the way they described it.
02:17:24.000That a guy was jogging 20 miles from his house in work boots, and that some racists pinned him and then killed him?
02:17:30.000The real story is, a neighborhood plagued by burglaries, police went around and said, here's a picture of the guy, security camera footage showed him committing felony burglary, because people need to understand, I don't know if it was felony burglary, but people need to understand that burglary is not breaking into someone's house and robbing them, it's breaking into someone's house.
02:17:47.000We're learning this the hard way right now.
02:17:48.000So when they had evidence of him entering a home, it's not trespassing, The police then say, here's the guy.
02:18:09.000Probably because, I could be speculating, but this guy, they believed, may have stolen a gun.
02:18:14.000Perhaps it's wrong to make that assumption, but someone did steal a gun and this guy was a suspect, so... It's not illegal to stand in a street with a gun.
02:18:21.000Ahmed Arbery then ran around the right side of the truck and then as soon as he got to the front of the truck jumped
02:18:26.000left and attacked one of the McMichaels, the younger one who had the gun, fighting for the shotgun trying to take it.
02:18:47.000And perhaps they were racist in their assumptions about him, but either way, if the cops go to your house and say, this is the guy, someone's running around in work boots, having been seen on security camera, after a gun was stolen, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the neighborhood freaked out about it.
02:20:06.000Michael Brown did not have his hands up.
02:20:08.000The coroner, I think it was Obama's Justice Department, found that he actually had his hands down and he was lunging towards the cop, Darren Wilson.
02:20:16.000But they've lied, and they've lied, and they've lied.
02:20:18.000I mean, look at the George Floyd story.
02:20:20.000Everything they said about that, man, boy, did it turn out to be false.
02:20:23.000Should anybody die in these situations?
02:20:54.000Also, the Brave search engine, which I've been experimenting with, I've been in touch with business ops over at Brave, and there are ways you can go to search.brave.com, slash settings, and fix your Brave search engine from there with your Brave browser.
02:21:06.000Alright everybody, head over to TimCast.com, become a member.
02:21:08.000Thanks for hanging out this Friday night.
02:21:10.000You can follow the show at TimCast IRL.
02:21:32.000Tim, anytime somebody can make me think, I view that as a really good conversation, and you made me think tonight, and I'm gonna have to, like, kind of mull with some of the stuff you said, but I very much enjoyed it.
02:21:48.000Thank you very much, Lydia, and I'll say, like, at least going back to, like, the foreign policy stuff, I'd recommend the last episode I did.
02:21:53.000It's called How to Prevent or Provoke Stupid Wars, and what I basically do is just get into What's your Twitter?
02:22:00.000our theory about realism, liberalism, Marxism, social constructivism and try and get past
02:22:06.000kind of that surface level partisan noise, get into the fundamentals of what's happening.
02:22:10.000And welcome people to come check that out.
02:22:36.000I mean, look, Tim, I know you have to keep the lights here on, but if Fauci's not in the news, I'm not gonna violate the artistic integrity of my work to give you roles.
02:23:06.000We'll be riding space elevators tethered with Graphene amalgams.
02:23:11.000I just wanted to say during this conversation about crew-served machine guns, children are perfect for training to serve machine gun functions.
02:23:20.000So if you want to have a family, that's a great reason to do so.