In this episode, we talk about the Israeli invasion of Gaza and the mass protests in New York against it. We also hear from Scott Horton, the Director of the Libertarian Institute, and Phil Labonte, the lead singer of the heavy metal band All That Remains.
00:00:00.000The American Pronunciation Guide Presents «How to Pronounce Gaza»
00:00:09.000The formal invasion of Gaza has begun.
00:00:11.000Now the other day we saw tanks make moves into Gaza, which I think it's fair to say an invasion, but now we're seeing full-scale boots on the ground.
00:00:20.000There's some wild rumors going around, we got to be very careful of, but people are sharing it.
00:00:24.000Lebanese reporters claiming there's even US troops there.
00:00:27.000I want to be careful about that because we just don't know for sure, we don't want to fan the flames, but this is getting, it's getting Hot to say the least.
00:01:04.000It's my company, so of course I sponsor myself and I'm not worried about my sponsor pulling out of my show.
00:01:10.000No, but to be fair, there are a lot of companies that don't want to sponsor a show that's going to be like, here's a bunch of war and civilian casualties, and so that's one of the reasons we decided to make a product where we sponsor ourselves, but it's also part of the bigger mission.
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00:02:36.000At ScottHorton.org, and I'm the author of Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism, and I'm working on Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine.
00:04:14.000won't draw red lines for Israel in war with Hamas, etc., etc.
00:04:18.000We've got this story from the Daily Mail.
00:04:20.000Quote, Hamas will feel our wrath tonight.
00:04:23.000Warns Israel as it unleashes unprecedented airstrikes on Gaza.
00:04:27.000IDF steps up ground operations and tells Palestinians to flee south now as invasion looms with phone lines and internet cut across the city.
00:04:36.000You were mentioning just a moment ago that there's a, Scott, One of the, I guess, rumors or thoughts or whatever is that Israel may try to split the Gaza Strip in half between two cities.
00:04:49.000I have a Israeli friend that sent me a message earlier today that said the invasion has begun and I don't know the extent of it.
00:04:57.000He actually had also sent me a document that was a few years old that was a military study, an Israeli military study about how to invade and conquer the Strip and they had a few different ideas about how to go about it and I guess one of them that My friend who was a veteran also, he's a veteran of the 2006 Lebanon War, or Hezbollah War.
00:05:21.000He, I think, thought that this would be the most likely take, that they would invade kind of in the middle of Gaza and divide Khan Yunis from Gaza City.
00:05:34.000You know they have a hell of a fight if they're really going if the doctrine truly is to eradicate Hamas as they had previously said to completely eradicate Hamas.
00:05:44.000They have a real fight on their hands because they have thousands of guys and they have these very deep tunnels and in 2014 they started to invade and Hamas guys were popping up out of the ground, out all over the place, and they were taking casualties.
00:06:00.000They were getting up close and kind of ruining the Israelis' advantage by taking them out up close.
00:06:07.000And the Israelis, they pulled back and instead just went to artillery and air power.
00:06:12.000So if they're going to truly, quote unquote, clean out the Gaza Strip of Hamas, it's going to cost incredible casualties on both sides.
00:06:22.000I just want to mention, you know, we hear it from Neolibs in the United States all the time about gun control, about if you want to go up against the U.S., you need nukes and all that stuff, and it's like, dude, guys with guns are dangerous.
00:06:33.000You can't occupy a street corner with a drone.
00:06:35.000You can just terrorize and devastate, but if you want control of something, guys with guns, you know, so that's, yeah.
00:06:42.000Now Seymour Hersh, the incredibly important journalist Seymour Hersh has been writing that he has contacts in Israeli intelligence and in the military and whatever who are saying that America has delivered these massive bunker buster bombs which they're essentially dropped from very high altitude and achieve very high speed and then they have a double charge.
00:07:05.000The cone fires some kind of superheated charge into the ground to dig a hole down 30 40 meters and then the main charge which is also a shape charge that's shaped downward goes so that you this is how to kill a bunker without having to use a nuke is to use these massive bunker buster bombs and then the idea is they're going to try to use these to destroy the hamas tunnels but of course hamas has dug their tunnels deep enough to try to be protected from those so we don't know if that'll really work
00:07:35.000They're going to have to do like tunnel rat type tactics like they did in Vietnam.
00:07:39.000And one of the things that I wanted to, that I was mentioning to Scott earlier that we didn't want to talk about without being on air, is this is going to be, if they do decide to go into, you know, really go in full scale, it's going to be like Fallujah, you know, in Iraq.
00:08:36.000is deploying tens of thousands, 19,000 personnel to the region already, some are saying that they've been deploying the largest, it's the largest NATO fleet ever amassed.
00:08:45.000I don't know if that's true, but I'm seeing these, you know, these images and like various individuals in politics posting these things.
00:09:02.000I have information that there are Delta units being moved into the area either tomorrow Or the day after something?
00:09:14.000So there are rumors on Twitter right now that U.S.
00:09:17.000elite forces, Delta forces are in the conflict already in in Gaza.
00:09:21.000I don't I I'm I'm hard pressed to believe that.
00:09:24.000Well, there was a picture last week of that they put the incompetence in the White House posted on Instagram, a picture of Biden shaking hands with Delta force operators and congratulating them for all the great work that they're doing in Palestine.
00:09:36.000They took it down real quick, but I believe so.
00:09:38.000No, those those guys were security detail.
00:09:41.000Okay, yeah, they took it down quickly also, but you could when they read when they reposted it with their faces blacked out You could still see their tattoos.
00:09:48.000Yeah, I mean the operational security there is completely ridiculous.
00:09:51.000But look as far as World War three I don't know about you know, look there's slippery slope arguments where Russia ends up involved here that kind of thing, but Look at just the risk of regional war where we could have you know, this war very quickly and Never mind how difficult it is for the people of Gaza and the Israeli conscripts who are invading right now, by the way.
00:10:14.000But for the region, this very quickly could escalate to a war with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, with all different kinds of... It's already in Syria.
00:10:24.000of militias in syria and why are we in syria when syria for israel right donald trump tried to get us out of syria three different times and his military overrode in line different times they lied to his face and they just canceled his orders three times and why Well, because America got rid of Saddam Hussein and empowered Iran, and so now, since the regime change against Assad failed, and Iran and Hezbollah had even more influence in Syria than ever before, then America had to stay to occupy that Al-Tanf base, to block the so-called land bridge,
00:11:05.000And then when Israel goes and does what they're doing in Gaza now, then our guys are at risk.
00:11:10.000And I actually have a friend whose son is deployed in Syria right now, who's at risk of getting killed over this.
00:11:16.000You know, there's that guy that ran for Congress in, help me out, in Washington state.
00:11:20.000That almost won the Republican Joe Kent, whose his wife was killed in Syria after Trump ordered our guys out and the military said, no, and just said, they laid that order.
00:11:31.000They said, they said, you got it, Trump.
00:12:16.000And General James Mattis and General David Petraeus both in candid moments admitted, they said something very close to, our men pay a price in terms of their security in the Middle East every day because of Israel and what they do in Palestine.
00:12:37.000In March of 2004, Sheik Yassin, who was the founder of Hamas, who Israel had financed and helped for years to grow Hamas, he started moderating his position and trying to get along, so they assassinated him.
00:12:54.000Because they don't want a partner for peace.
00:13:02.000It was just like a week later was the giant riot in Fallujah.
00:13:07.000Maybe it was two weeks later was the giant riot in Fallujah where the Blackwater guards were lynched and their bodies burned and hung on the bridge.
00:13:16.000And one of the corpses was dragged through the street With another guy tied to the hood of a car with a big picture of Sheikh Yassin in the window.
00:13:28.000And it was the Israeli assassination of the founder of Hamas that had helped to touch off that riot that killed those Blackwater guards that then led to Bush, and maybe this is what Mattis was referring to, this led to Bush ordering James Mattis to go in there and clean them out.
00:13:46.000And what they did was like a free-fire zone.
00:13:54.000And they didn't do that in the other battles in Iraq War II, but they did that in Fallujah.
00:13:58.000And the first big battle of Fallujah in March of 2004 is what really kicked off the Sunni-based insurgency that killed 4,000 of our guys in Iraq War II.
00:14:09.000And it was because Israel assassinated their own former sock puppet.
00:14:14.000When he was becoming a public relations liability for them.
00:14:19.000I wanted to point out when it came to Biden and the leaked photo, Telegraph reports that it was a hostage rescue unit in Israel.
00:14:57.000But if they're there in Israel, That I think I don't know if they're gonna I don't know if they're gonna put them into Israel and I this is this is only like hearsay stuff that I that I've I've got but it's my understanding that they're probably gonna be going into the bases in because there's there's a base in the desert in Iraq that they that they forward operate from so they can get into Syria and stuff so if I understand correctly they're gonna be
00:15:23.000I don't know that they won't put them in support roles for the IDF.
00:15:29.000I think that more than likely, if there's a support force, it'd be the two Marine Expeditionary Units that are in the area that are on carriers.
00:15:38.000You know, Delta doesn't have enough guys where they'd be a big support role.
00:15:42.000Because there's only a few hundred of them.
00:16:22.000My point is, they don't meet Joe Biden and go, yeah!
00:16:25.000Yeah, fist bump, high five, like, it's so great to meet you.
00:16:27.000And I look at this photo of these guys shaking Biden's hand and I'm like, I am worried about... Although, you know, I mean... He's the boss.
00:16:32.000They're military and he's the president.
00:16:34.000That's basically all that's really going on there.
00:16:56.000But I think perhaps for a lot of these guys that are doing the top tier stuff, They don't think Joe Biden's the boss.
00:17:04.000Just because of the picture, they were smiling.
00:17:07.000I think it's likely that they were putting a face on because you don't spit in the face of the president.
00:17:13.000I would be magnanimous if I met the president.
00:17:16.000I would say that I would be kind and smile as well.
00:17:20.000My bigger concern is the excitement to meet him and get a photo op and do all these things instead of being like, look, I get he's the president.
00:17:37.000Because there are people that I know that are not in the military that also know dudes that are like that, and they're just like, yeah, they weren't.
00:17:44.000Well, look, I want to go back to what you're saying about like, you know, how could any of them have faith in him as their commander-in-chief?
00:17:50.000Remember in 2013, Barack Obama tried to take us to war in Syria over the first fake sarin attack, and essentially the American military And any potential volunteers were like, no, we're not falling Barack Obama into battle.
00:18:55.000And when it's like day three of his presidency- In Pakistan.
00:18:59.000Yeah, it was like 23 women and children were killed in a village in an airstrike or whatever, and I was just like... That was the wedding, right?
00:19:21.000Well, in that election, I remember because I was in New York doing like indie art projects, and Everyone was very on board with Obama, and I remember telling them, like, he promised that he was going to send more troops to Afghanistan.
00:19:35.000I was like, no, he totally said he was going to send more guys to Afghanistan, which I can't vote for him because of that, because he's, you know, my goal is to vote anti-war.
00:19:45.000And they were like, well, he's not going to do that.
00:19:49.000These are also the same people who, when he put the Obamacare into place, that had a mandate, and if you didn't sign up for health insurance you would get taxed extra, they were like, that's great!
00:19:58.000And then when they got taxed extra, they were like, why me?
00:20:09.000I got a chapter two on this in Fool's Errand.
00:20:12.000He really said he wanted to send a couple brigades, which was mostly just like a PR thing that he was saying Afghanistan is the good war, Iraq is the bad war, whatever.
00:20:22.000Then as soon as he got into power, They just absolutely rolled him, and it was the Secretary of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Generals Petraeus and McChrystal, in alliance with McCain and Graham in the Senate, and they spent nine months pressuring him to escalate that war by 70,000 troops, which eventually he did.
00:20:46.000And Lindsey Graham promised him, he said, give us a number, this is after he already sent 40, Graham said, give us, us being him and McCain, give us a number that starts with a three and we'll leave you alone.
00:21:30.000With or without evidence, it's time to start bombing Iranian targets.
00:21:33.000He wants to go to war with Iran so bad.
00:21:35.000And I know that there are still like holdovers in the government that still think it's a good idea.
00:21:41.000I don't think that there's anyone in America that thinks it's a good idea, no regular people in America, that think it's a good idea to engage in a war with Iran.
00:21:49.000Look, in 2007, Dick Cheney and George Bush wanted to.
00:21:54.000They were escalating the war, they launched the Iraq War surge, and then they even dropped the lies about the nuclear weapons program for a minute to focus on the lies that they claimed, and people should check this, it's not true and I wrote it all up in Enough Already.
00:22:07.000They claimed that Iran was responsible for every roadside bomb that went off in Shiite parts of Iraq.
00:22:15.000They were all being made in Iraq by Iraqis.
00:22:18.000But that was the propaganda and that was supposed to be the excuse for the war.
00:22:21.000And then what happened was that the Joint Chiefs brought George W. Bush to the Pentagon.
00:22:27.000I believe this is in January or February of 2007.
00:22:31.000And they went to the tank, like the secure room in the basement or whatever, and they told W. Bush, we're not going to Iran.
00:22:38.000Like, maybe the Air Force and the Navy talk tough with their air power, but the Army and the Marines, who are already getting chewed up in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Special Operations Forces, they will die by the thousands and thousands and maybe tens of thousands.
00:22:54.000In a war, because you have to send in, to take out the anti-aircraft, you have to send in special operations forces with laser designators to take out the anti-aircraft.
00:23:03.000And you sure can't win a war or get a real regime change from the air.
00:23:06.000All you could do is some kind of crazy punitive strike anyway.
00:23:30.000We don't want to fight unless we have escalation dominance, meaning we control every stage of the war.
00:23:36.000We do this, they'll do that, but don't worry, because then we'll do this.
00:23:39.000And then they'll do that, but we have that covered.
00:23:42.000And they said, but in the case of Iran, we do not have escalation dominance.
00:23:45.000In the case of Iran, if we attack Iran, they have tens of thousands of missiles.
00:23:49.000Now luckily we don't have 100,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan anymore, but we got tens of thousands in Kuwait, we still do have thousands in Iraq, low thousands in Iraq, and we have The 5th Fleet Navy Base at Bahrain, and we have CENTCOM headquarters at the Al-Ulid Base in Qatar.
00:24:09.000And our allies, the Saudis, Bahrain, UAE, have trillions of dollars worth of economic targets all up and down the western side of that Gulf.
00:24:19.000And if we go to war with Iran, every bit of that is up for grabs, including our Navy and Air Base there.
00:24:25.000A geography lesson would wake a lot of Americans up very quickly.
00:25:28.000But anyway, And this gets right to the neocons and the Israel lobby in the United States.
00:25:34.000He went to the Pentagon right after September 11th, and an officer said, General, come here, I want to show you something, and showed him this piece of paper.
00:25:43.000He said, this is the plan for regime change in the new war.
00:25:48.000He said, we're going to war with Iraq.
00:25:52.000They don't have anything to do with September 11th or Al-Qaeda, of course.
00:25:55.000And the guy said, yeah, no, check it out.
00:25:57.000So the list was, I hope I can get this right, the list was Iraq, Lebanon, by which they meant not necessarily everyone in Beirut, but Hezbollah in Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and did I already say Sudan?
00:27:56.000Saddam Hussein is the Sunni, the minority Sunni dictator sitting on a super-majority Shiite population.
00:28:05.000And Iran and Hezbollah, of course, are these fundamentalist Shiite regimes.
00:28:10.000So why does it make sense to these neocons to get rid of Saddam Hussein?
00:28:16.000Well, it was this ridiculous Rube Goldberg scheme that they had come up with.
00:28:20.000If we get rid of Saddam Hussein... Who's Rube Goldberg?
00:28:23.000Oh, Rube Goldberg is the guy that makes the ridiculous, like, the mousetrap machine, where it's like a hundred little gears turn to make... Yeah, Pee Wee Herman's Breakfast.
00:28:44.000I think it's on... probably on Netflix.
00:28:47.000But look, so here was the scheme, okay?
00:28:49.000The Rube Goldberg scheme was, if we get rid of Saddam Hussein, then we will get the cousin of the King of Jordan to take over Iraq.
00:28:59.000And because he's a Hashemite with the blood of the Prophet in his veins, all the Shiites will just bend over and kiss his bottom and do whatever he says.
00:29:15.000And even though the Shiites revere the bloodline of the Prophet, it's not like their priests and even priests and cardinals and bishops don't have like political control over their people directly.
00:29:27.000So, in other words, they were living in this fantasy world.
00:29:32.000That the Shiites of Iraq would become compliant under the new pro-American installed and pro-Israeli installed regime.
00:29:41.000And then because Shiite Islam is born in Iraq and then spread into Iran, they would get the Shiite clergy in Najaf to order Hezbollah to stop being friends with Iran and start being friends with Israel.
00:29:55.000And Iraq, under these compliant Shiites, would then give the full advantage to America, Jordan, Turkey, and Israel, our friends in the region, against Iran.
00:30:07.000Well, Tim, this is the dumbest damn thing.
00:30:13.000It's called The Clean Break by Wormser.
00:30:15.000The follow-up is called Coping with Crumbling States.
00:30:18.000And if you really want to know, they wrote a book about it called Tyranny's Ally.
00:30:23.000And then what really happened in Iraq War II?
00:30:25.000What happened in Iraq War II was Bush overthrew the minority Sunni dictator and he put the super-majority Shiite population in charge and their political factions who happened to be guys who'd been living in Iran for 30 years since Jimmy Carter had hired Saddam Hussein to invade Iran back after the revolution.
00:30:44.000And so they were the ones who came and inherited the whole thing.
00:30:47.000So when we think about Iraq War II of the George W. Bush years, that whole five-year civil war that was going on, that was Bush fighting for Iran's side in the war against his own friends because that was what the neoconservatives thought would be good for Israel.
00:31:31.000The reason why I'll say intentionally now, in my opinion, is that at the time we were asking, did Biden screw this up on purpose to sour the idea of withdrawal in the minds of the American public?
00:31:41.000The reality was you could withdraw from Afghanistan without causing what Biden caused.
00:31:46.000But now what I'm seeing is journalists say Trump's plan was bad and Biden is getting blamed for it.
00:31:51.000No, Biden's plan was... Trump put the plan in place way earlier in the spring.
00:32:14.000I think they turned it over to the ANA, but the ANA couldn't hold it.
00:32:20.000In the middle of the night, the US forces pulled out without notice, and regular Afghanis just looted the buildings, and there were helicopter pilots I think this is a New York Times reporting that instantly lost logistics and didn't know what was going on, landed the helicopters and ran away.
00:32:39.000Because they were like, there's no one anymore.
00:32:40.000No, I'm not talking, there was, it was just, it was an insane, insane move.
00:32:45.000And I think what they wanted, yes, Joe Biden gets the negativity from it, but they don't think Joe, I do not see Joe Biden being the candidate 2024.
00:33:17.000It was insane how they left all of the weapons, but now what we have is the Taliban saying, if you give me safe passage, we'll destroy Israel for you.
00:33:27.000Well, they're not getting anywhere near Israel.
00:35:25.000We built a great government in Kabul, which will surely last for years, and we built this great, magnificent Afghan National Army, 300,000 men strong, and it's sure to last for years, too.
00:35:37.000Not because we blew it, but because we did it, everybody, and so now we can go.
00:35:43.000Well, by sticking to that lie, That meant they had to leave all those weapons in the hands of the Afghan National Army that couldn't hold on to them and ended up turning them all over to the Taliban.
00:35:55.000And because they had to pretend that they had created a government worth its salt in Kabul, they couldn't abandon it and leave the city early or they would have been accused of undermining the government and being the reason that it fell.
00:36:08.000So they had to stick with their lie that everything is fine.
00:36:12.000Meanwhile, the Taliban are walking right into Kabul because it's four months behind schedule that they're leaving.
00:36:18.000And you know what else comes from this?
00:36:20.000With the Taliban getting access to a lot of these weapons, certainly they can't maintain a lot of it, so a lot of it just instantly falls apart.
00:36:27.000But with a lot of the guns and the materials that are available to just ground forces, it allows the U.S.
00:36:34.000to have a recurring problem and reason to be in the Middle East.
00:36:38.000It's also, they are also... Hard to get back to Afghanistan.
00:36:41.000Yeah, I mean it's not even necessarily about Afghanistan, it's the reporting that, or the rumors at least, that weapons left behind by the U.S.
00:36:47.000are being used by Hamas and other Iranian militants.
00:36:50.000Yeah, that was reporting from the Wall Street Journal.
00:36:52.000They were reporting about that in June, that that was likely to be happening.
00:36:55.000And there's also reports that the technology has been reverse-engineered.
00:37:01.000And like that they're able to build, you know, we saw that video of them trying to fly a helicopter and they're like going in circles or whatever.
00:37:08.000Yeah, when it comes to the small arms, they're building AK-47s and they're building at least small arms in the mountains of Afghanistan between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
00:37:19.000There's a whole arms market up there where you can go and buy copies of It's like Louis Vuitton handbags, except AK-47s.
00:37:28.000Here's how my first book, that was this book about all of the terror wars, became a different book, Fool's Errand, about Afghanistan.
00:37:36.000It's because I got stuck in Afghanistan.
00:37:38.000Because it's such a huge story, it's 20 years long, but the whole thing takes place east of Persia.
00:37:45.000And so I knew, people are going to be mad at me that it takes too long before we get to Iraq War 2.
00:37:50.000So I ended up, you know what, fine, I'll just do a whole book about Afghanistan and I'll get back to the rest of the Middle East later.
00:37:56.000Because the rest of the whole story of the Bush and Obama years takes place in Mesopotamia and the Levant.
00:38:03.000What's going on in Afghanistan is, I hate to say it, but almost irrelevant, in a sense.
00:38:09.000It's separate from the rest of the story, whereas the war in Iraq immediately bleeds to Libya, to Syria, and the rest of the story comes from Bush Jr.' 's invasion of Iraq in 2003.
00:38:21.000Do you think religion plays a role in high-level military?
00:38:40.000Yes, you know there's a guy named Mikey Weinstein who sued about this over and over and over again about You know religious freedom inside the services and it's particularly the Air Force has been taken over at least this is my dad is 10 years old here but from what I'd heard before he had real holy rollers who believe that yeah nuclear war will help force Jesus to come back and all this kind of stuff.
00:39:03.000So there are people who really believe that with power and influence in this country.
00:39:07.000And it's tough because I think Occam's Razor is always, there's money to be made for the military-industrial complex, there's power to be had, there's grudges, there's generational conflict, but we are, I bring this up because there are people pushing this rumor, and you know, I think Jack kind of took it the wrong way when I said that there's videos of people claiming, you know, Israel is the blessed holy land, members of Congress saying this, and many people who believe that there has to be this war for there to be the messianic era or whatever, I'm not talking about any of these anti-semitic conspiracy theories about world control dominance.
00:39:41.000I'm talking about people who generally just believe the Bible.
00:40:04.000I guess I would say in the councils of the highest levels of the Pentagon and the White House, I don't think that they have that much influence.
00:40:12.000But in the nation, in the country overall, they do.
00:40:15.000And in the Republican Party and in the Congress, they absolutely do.
00:40:18.000I mean, look, after September 11th, Colin Powell told George Bush, just like James Baker told his father, Your approval rating is through the roof.
00:40:26.000We have to do a Palestinian state now.
00:40:30.000This is one of the main causes of terrorism against our country, is the Israeli suppression of the Palestinians.
00:40:35.000And Bush was convinced, and they started to do it.
00:40:38.000And then what happened was, Tom DeLay, the House Majority Whip, from Texas, came to W. Bush and said, you want to be a one-term president like your father?
00:40:48.000Because I'll turn every born-again evangelical Christian in this country against you and you will be toast.
00:40:55.000Why do you think the Palestinians have for so long, even going back to the founding of Israel, rejected a two-state solution?
00:41:01.000Even the one Bill Clinton proposed, I think in 92, that was really generous and pretty strong and would have given them a lot.
00:41:11.000Okay, I mean, if you want to go back to the beginning of it, it was because this, what, 11% of the population were claiming to own half the land, more than half the land, and everyone else was going to have to get the hell out of the way.
00:41:33.000I mean first of all, well there's a lot of first of all's here, but what happened was Israel made a secret deal with the King of Jordan that he would keep the West Bank and then at the end of the war they had Egypt keep the Gaza Strip just so that the Palestinians could not have their state.
00:41:52.000So quite contrary to this myth that Israel has done nothing but try to give the Palestinians independence all this time.
00:41:59.000I'm talking about the American proposals.
00:42:02.000There's been a lot of American proposals.
00:42:03.000Well that was in 92, but you asked about 48.
00:42:05.000Right, I'm saying why have they rejected it all along?
00:42:08.000Like you're saying it's a different reason each time.
00:42:11.000Well, I mean to skip from 48 to 92 is tough and there's obviously a lot at issue here.
00:42:17.000If you want to do, let me do the narrative in the broad stroke thing, okay?
00:42:21.000So picture your map of Israel and Palestine that you have in your head right now.
00:42:25.000In the 1948 war, Forget morality and normative, just descriptive.
00:42:32.000Israel won the war and they cleansed 750,000 Palestinians out of what we now call Israel proper within the 67 borders.
00:42:43.000They pushed them into other nations across the Middle East and they pushed them into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
00:42:51.000And they took as far as West Jerusalem, okay?
00:42:54.000Now, regardless of, you know, who you sympathize with or whatever, just factually speaking, That was sustainable.
00:43:04.000What they created was sustainable in the sense that they created an 80-20 super-duper majority Jewish democracy.
00:43:12.000You had 80% Jews, 20% Palestinian, Muslims, and Christians inside Israel.
00:43:18.000We're talking about now, not the occupied territories.
00:44:41.000Were they kidnapped or they were let to stay where they lived?
00:44:44.000Well, it's sort of the same thing in a sense.
00:44:47.000I mean, it's a turn of phrase here that I'm using, but what I'm trying to tell you is that the Palestinian people have had nothing like independence this whole time.
00:44:58.000They've been under the occupation of Israel, first under Jordan and Egypt, and then under Israel since 67.
00:45:08.000Okay, so when like Ben Shapiro, for example, or my friend here last night on Twitter says, well, what would we do if the Mexicans were attacking us across our international border here?
00:45:31.000We give them Xboxes and tents, we let them populate Central Park.
00:45:35.000All right, let's do the southern border in a minute.
00:45:38.000But so, unlike in the Ben Shapiro analogy, which everybody's heard a million times, there is no international border here.
00:45:47.000Most people, I'm not saying in this room, but I just mean in America, generally speaking, if you say the Israelis and the Palestinians, Well, it sounds like the Palestinians already have a country, because everybody has a country.
00:45:59.000And you just called them Palestinians, so they must be from the country called Palestine, right?
00:46:33.000We don't want to, essentially, in a way, again, except my turn of phrase, import, by expanding their territory, they're, in a sense, importing this massive population of Palestinian Muslims and Christians that they don't want.
00:46:47.000And so David Ben-Gurion... Well, nobody wants them.
00:46:52.000Well, and that's partially because if the Israeli Jews are able to cleanse all of historic Palestine of all their Muslim population, then they lose all their claim to their holy sites.
00:47:03.000It's their land that they want to keep.
00:47:05.000They were the ones who were there first.
00:47:07.000They're the ones being cleansed from their land by the Israelis.
00:47:10.000Well, first means they were living there all along.
00:47:15.000And for generations back into antiquity, when a bunch of Russians and Lithuanians and Germans and New Yorkers showed up and said the land belonged to them.
00:47:49.000Because when the Muslims came and took over that land, they did not cleanse the land of the people who lived there.
00:47:56.000all and they did not invaded with a giant occupying forced to replace them all they did was take them over and tax them and then the deal was if you convert to islam you get it uh... tax cut basically pay less and so the local people all converted to Islam.
00:48:20.000But wait, so these are the same people who are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews and the source for this is David Ben-Gurion himself.
00:48:28.000Okay, this is from Sheldon Richman's book which we published at the Institute and Sheldon, my good friend, was raised Jewish and Zionist until he learned all of this stuff and he wrote this great book, Coming to Palestine, about it.
00:48:41.000And on page 11 and 12 here, he quotes David Ben-Gurion and his partner Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who is Israel's second president and who was also a professional historian.
00:48:54.000And they wrote a book in 1918 called Eretz Israel in the Past and in the Present.
00:49:00.000And in there, I won't read you the whole quote, but in there they describe in detail, Ben-Gurion says, the ancient Hebrews never left.
00:49:08.000So you can't take a farmer from his soil.
00:49:12.000And so what was happening was the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who had stayed in Palestine were being replaced by the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who'd gone off to Europe and then their descendants came home.
00:49:25.000As though there's no statute of limitations.
00:49:28.000And 3,000 years later, you can come and say, this is my land, you can't live here.
00:49:34.000But if the argument is one people conquering another people, then all you're arguing now is that other people are conquering other people, right?
00:49:42.000I'm not okay with any of it, but I understand it happened, and I wonder what the solutions would be.
00:49:48.000Look, I mean, all we're trying to do here is describe the reality of the situation, Tim.
00:49:52.000Most of the time, again, if you listen to Ben Shapiro, which many people do, you would think there already was some kind of two-state solution, and now the nation-state of Palestine has sent its terrorist forces to attack and invade Israel, when that's not what happened.
00:50:06.000What happened was, essentially, Indians broke out of their reservation.
00:50:13.000And that's not a fight between sovereigns, that's a fight essentially between refugees in a prison camp versus the nation-state that conquered them.
00:50:22.000And when you at least explain... It's against the population because they did go after innocent people.
00:51:42.000Would you support Would you support carpet bombing an Indian reservation over an atrocity when you know good and damned well that the FBI and the Marshals Service can handle this?
00:51:57.000You're gonna send in the military and you know you're gonna kill innocent people?
00:52:01.000If you're saying that the Navajo Nation, which struggles to have electricity and refrigeration just to afford- Like the people of Gaza?
00:52:09.000No, like the people of the Navajo Nation, the Navajo Hopi Reservation, right?
00:52:13.000Like there's solar panel structures to keep refrigerators going to make sure that they have insulin, the insulin stays cold.
00:52:21.000If you're saying that these people, if they, if like there was a, if there was a militia to the point where they had a militia and they decided to murder a thousand Americans, I think that would, first of all, that would be really shocking and I would think very long and hard about the No, I wouldn't worry what they were upset about, but I would.
00:52:40.000You would wonder what they were so upset about.
00:52:48.000Well, maybe Hillary Clinton sold their uranium to the Russians and they all got cancer and
00:52:53.000they're actually upset and got something to fight about.
00:52:56.000Let me literally answer the question instead of just going back and forth.
00:53:01.000If the Navajo Nation mounted a raid that killed 1,000 Americans, it's not some arbitrary question of carpet bombing them.
00:53:07.000It's a question of military capabilities, what we expect in terms of future actions against us, and what amounts to justice.
00:53:14.000I would be quite concerned with a carpet bomb on the Navajo Reservation because they don't have support from Iran or they don't have access to rockets.
00:53:22.000We're not being bombed by them consistently.
00:53:26.000Rockets aren't launching out of various areas.
00:53:32.000But even if they were armed with rockets, I mean, look, we call them rockets because you don't dare call them missiles because they're not real missiles and they didn't get shipped from Iran.
00:53:39.000They made them out of water pipes, right?
00:53:42.000These are, you know, barely amount to Katyusha rockets.
00:53:47.000Look, the reason it's so important that we talk about the difference between, you know, Whether we're talking about a sovereign nation or an Indian reservation, what you're supposed to take from that is everybody in this country knows that the great white father back east, Joe Biden, and his armed forces have one billion times the strength and the power of any Indians on any reservation, and that if they did break out and commit some terrible atrocity, that Uncle Sam
00:54:19.000ought to be able to negotiate a peaceful solution from here.
00:54:23.000And again, the individuals responsible would be prosecuted in court.
00:54:54.000just decided to lie, to wage war overseas, which resulted in untold deaths, and we're still pissed off about it.
00:55:02.000It was an insane move that we went to Afghanistan and Iraq over 9-11.
00:55:06.0009-11 was an atrocity for this country.
00:55:10.000Everybody knows that, and 3,000 people lost their lives.
00:55:13.000The stories that come out of 9-11 are stories of great heroism, which inspire, but the whole day was just so horrifying, and the reaction was just untold more dead with lies.
00:55:24.000The US did not have a fair day in court.
00:55:27.000I fully expect evil actions should something like that occur.
00:56:08.000Hold on, like... Well, no, look, it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm just saying the relative power versus the Indians on the res versus the US federal government means if something very terrible happens, the onus should be on the American National authorities to resolve it peacefully from there.
00:56:29.000Not to call in the army to wipe out a bunch of innocent men, women, and children.
00:56:34.000And look at the history of Israel and Palestine here, where they've had problems with terrorism from the leftists, from the nationalists, from the Islamists, the whole time.
00:57:19.000And look, I wrote an article a couple of weeks ago, and we do need to get into why Netanyahu likes Hamas so much and supported them in Palestine.
00:57:28.000Because that's a huge part of this, okay?
00:57:30.000Because we keep getting distracted off our points, and probably that's mostly my fault.
00:57:35.000And hell, now I forgot what I was going to say about that.
00:57:39.000You were leading to the comment, the link you sent, which is something that I was going to read out.
00:58:10.000You get the superpower to kill itself, right?
00:58:13.000You give them an opportunity to go wild and do something self-destructive, okay?
00:58:18.000In this case, Hamas was trying, and probably there are people who are siding with the Palestinians who might not want to hear this part of it, The reason that Hamas committed the atrocity that they committed.
01:00:27.000In Arabia, all of the American sock puppets, Mohammed bin Salman and Mohammed bin Zayed in Saudi and in UAE, they all have to take a stand.
01:00:40.000Because they're good little sock puppets of the empire?
01:00:43.000Or are they going to agree with 100% of the public opinion of the people in their countries?
01:00:48.000This could destabilize the whole region.
01:00:50.000It's already... Remember when I was here a year and a half ago, we talked about the Abraham Accords.
01:00:55.000And what was the purpose of the Abraham Accords?
01:00:58.000This was the Netanyahu doctrine that said we can, with enough American tax money, we can make peace, well not peace, but we can finally permanently normalize relations with Bahrain, UAE, Saudi, Sudan and Morocco.
01:02:36.000And the Netanyahu Doctrine said, Unlike Yitzhak Rabin, who one of his fans assassinated in 1995.
01:02:44.000Unlike Yitzhak Rabin, who said, we want to demonize Iran so that we can negotiate and make peace with the Arabs, including the Palestinians.
01:02:56.000We'll make peace with the, demonize Iran, make peace with the Arabs, but not with the Palestinians.
01:03:02.000And you can hear him just three weeks ago in his United Nations address.
01:03:06.000He explains exactly the thinking behind this.
01:03:09.000He says, they always said that we could never normalize relations with the rest of the nations of the region and therefore then have peace with the Palestinians unless we make peace with the Palestinians first and give up a Palestinian state first and only then will we be able to get along but we showed them and we're so smart and we made these deals without giving up a Palestinian state and he said but we will have peace and what he's essentially saying between the lines is
01:03:40.000We're gonna have the peace of total victory here.
01:03:43.000The Palestinians will get nothing and they'll learn to like it.
01:03:46.000They'll never have independence and they'll never have freedom.
01:04:25.000And so when people are like, peace out!
01:04:27.000The origin of that is after your enemy was killed, you held up the V for victory.
01:04:31.000I always thought that this was FU because the archers would hold up two fingers because when they got caught, they would cut off one of the fingers so they couldn't pull the... That's where this comes from.
01:04:43.000Which people now say peace, but the peace is... It's peace after you win.
01:04:47.000So this brings us back to the clean break, okay?
01:04:49.000Because what was the purpose of getting rid of Saddam so that we can weaken Hezbollah?
01:04:56.000It was so that we don't have to abide by the Oslo Agreement and negotiate an independent Palestinian state.
01:05:04.000But if we screw over the Palestinians while we still have Hezbollah on our northern border, then that's an extra pressure.
01:05:11.000And so the whole point of the clean break strategy Was, we need to get America to go to war in Iraq for us, so that we don't have to give justice to the Palestinians!
01:05:22.000I wanted to ask, when you mentioned Hamas news was going to happen, do you think they knew... I mean, you're outlining this story of dominoes falling over, which could lead to World War III.
01:05:34.000And the first thing I thought was, if you are Hamas in Gaza, you're thinking World War III is our only path to any kind of change.
01:05:42.000Well, look, again, I think World War III is a little hyperbolic.
01:05:45.000I don't foresee Russia getting involved, although it could happen, something like that.
01:05:49.000We're already in a massive proxy war against Russia right now, as we all know, which is horrifying and terrifying.
01:05:57.000But they're not that close with the Ayatollah.
01:05:59.000You know, Russia and Iran, they have their own tensions going back, and they've been getting along okay.
01:06:04.000And Iran has been sending drones for the Russian war effort and that kind of thing.
01:06:08.000But they don't have like a treaty of alliance where Russia would go to war for Iran.
01:06:12.000And quite frankly, I think worst case scenario here, the war spreads to Lebanon and possibly Iraq.
01:06:22.000But I really think that the Americans and the Ayatollahs guys too have got to be cautioning him.
01:06:30.000And I think the American military has got to be telling Joe Biden how badly they do not want to fight Iran.
01:06:59.000military doctrine is defined by its air superiority.
01:07:04.000I don't know how much I believe that there is a war with Iran coming, like whether cooler heads will prevail or not, but I strongly believe that if it does happen, the U.S.
01:07:16.000will justify using tactical nuclear weapons.
01:07:19.000Because they'll want to take out the oil reserves, because that's what Lindsey Graham's after.
01:07:24.000Or they'll use MOABs as big as they possibly can.
01:07:27.000What do you make of Iran having trained Hamas fighters?
01:07:35.000Well, look, I mean, they have a real interest in disrupting the situation in Israel and Palestine.
01:07:42.000Iran was training Hamas fighters before they were even Hamas, like back in the late 80s, when Hamas was essentially forming in Lebanon with Hezbollah.
01:07:58.000Yeah, and they're part of the Muslim Brotherhood.
01:07:59.000And I want to recommend to you and to everyone listening a great book by Robert Dreyfus called Devil's Game, How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam.
01:08:10.000So it's the US's fault that the extremists inflame us?
01:08:14.000Yes, because America inherited all of the European and the Japanese world empires after World War II.
01:08:22.000America is the dominant force in the Middle East, even though we're the middle part of North America.
01:08:28.000So we created the people that hate us now?
01:08:30.000I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.
01:08:33.000Not created in the like oversimplified sense.
01:08:37.000But yes, the enemy in the Cold War was first the commies and second the nationalists.
01:08:45.000And who's opposed to both the commies and the nationalists?
01:08:51.000And so America and Britain and Saudi Arabia spent billions spreading fundamentalist Islam throughout the region.
01:09:00.000And not just the Wahhabism of Saudi, but the Muslim Brotherhood essentially was meant to disrupt all secular politics in the region for generations and did so.
01:09:12.000That was the purpose of it, and that was why America backed the Muslim Brotherhood.
01:09:16.000That was a huge part of the reason, of course, that America and Saudi worked together to send a bunch of guys, proto-Al Qaeda guys, to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
01:09:37.000All of these guys are Arabs, then you have Persia, and then you have the Afghans who are Hazaras and Tajiks and Uzbeks and Pashtuns, right?
01:09:47.000So they sent, they got all these Arabs to come and sent them to fight in Afghanistan, including the guys who were the leaders of what became Islamic Jihad and Al-Qaeda that ended up turning against the United States.
01:10:00.000So, and in fact, most people don't know this, but throughout the 1990s, when Al-Qaeda was already attacking the United States, Bill Clinton kept supporting them anyway.
01:10:10.000He supported them in Bosnia, in Kosovo, and in Chechnya.
01:10:15.000And you might remember when Vladimir Putin declared war on Ukraine two and a half, or a year and a half ago.
01:10:20.000In his declaration of war, he said, and I like the way he did this too, because he knew it was going to sound like conspiracy stuff.
01:10:40.000America was supporting Bin Ladenite headshoppers, suicide bomber murderers against the Russians.
01:10:46.000Bin Laden was hanging out in Brooklyn, I mean.
01:10:47.000Well, and his men were essentially divided, right?
01:10:53.000They were motivated to attack the United States by, one, our stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia, two, in order to bomb Iraq from 1990 all the way through.
01:11:05.000Okay, through the entire Clinton years, and then support for Israel in their occupations of Palestine and at that time of southern Lebanon, as well as support for all the dictatorships in the region.
01:11:17.000So even though Bill Clinton was backing them in Kosovo and in Chechnya, they were still coming for us anyway.
01:11:25.000He was using them, but he wasn't buying their loyalty.
01:11:28.000And so I'm not like a 9-11 truth-teller here saying the CIA had them attack us.
01:12:35.000It's that same imperial arrogance of the Bill Clinton years.
01:12:39.000That we can use these people to Keep things the way we want them, whether to fight our enemies or to divide and conquer our subject peoples.
01:13:22.000This is, uh, the man suspected in Wednesday's massacre that killed 18 people in Lewiston, Maine has been found dead.
01:13:28.000Sources told NBC Boston investigators Friday night, Robert Carr was the subject of days long of a day's long manhood that followed mass shootings at the just-in-time recreation bowling alley and shmemigans bar and grill.
01:13:50.000Specific details are not available immediately, but the source told NBC 10 Boston investigators that there is no longer a threat in Maine, as Card has been located and is deceased.
01:13:59.000And that is literally just popped up like five minutes ago.
01:14:03.000I just wanted to say, you know, because we talk a lot about this deep history with the Middle East and U.S.
01:14:09.000involvement, and it kind of feels like A lot of the conversations I've had, I'm always just like, someone will make a bunch of points about, well, Libby says these people hate us, and then you're talking about these operations, and I'm just like, would we not benefit from not being involved?
01:14:26.000Is it better for us to just totally not be involved?
01:14:30.000And so when I hear a lot of moral arguments, well, what they're doing this, and they're doing this, and then the Israel-Palestine stuff specifically, I'm kind of like, my response is, I'm America.
01:14:40.000I don't know why we're arguing the morality of foreign nations that are in a generational conflict when we should be helping our people here.
01:14:47.000The answer is because America is the world empire, Tim, and this is a huge contradiction, right?
01:14:53.000Our ancestors came here so they could mind their own business and be free.
01:14:58.000And yet, America came out on top at the end of the Second World War.
01:15:02.000The rest of the industrialized world was burnt to the ground, and so America had, what, half the GDP of the planet, and then they took full advantage and they created a world empire.
01:15:12.000They justified it in the name of containing the Soviet Union, and then when the Soviet Union ceased to exist 30 years ago, what'd they do?
01:15:23.000They went and they expanded to the Middle East, they expanded into Eastern Europe, and they picked a fight with Al-Qaeda, and they picked a fight with Russia, and now here we are!
01:15:32.000Same as they expanded... By the way, you guys are such China hawks on here, but who started the China pivot?
01:15:37.000That was Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton, who said, now's time to pick a fight with China.
01:15:46.000You know, my view, and it's probably naive, it's probably ignorant, whatever, but my view is a tremendous opportunity of the fall of the Soviet Union for trade agreements and not war.
01:15:56.000To say, hey, you know, you look at what's going on in Eastern Europe and we keep hearing from the establishment press and from the neocon neolib uniparty that it's an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and Russia, oh come on!
01:16:09.000NATO expansion... That's my book, it's called Provoked.
01:16:14.000But at the very least, if you want to make the argument that, you know, I was in Ukraine at the start of the protests, which eventually turned into the ousting of Yanukovych, and in the city I talked to many random people.
01:16:29.000And when I talked to them they say, What I was generally told by a lot of Ukrainians was, you know, Russia wants to create this trade union, they want Ukraine to be a part of it.
01:16:39.000Ukraine, many Ukrainians don't trust Russia, obviously, because the Soviet Union wasn't even that long ago, so a lot of the older folks are really concerned.
01:16:45.000And, entering the EU is a major economic lift up, and the Schengen zone, a lot of people want to move, and so that's where we're going.
01:16:53.000That is all geopolitical dispute and conflict, which results in escalated conflict.
01:16:59.000The idea that there's no provocation, what the media keeps saying, is just absurd.
01:17:04.000As long as our military alliances are expanding in a region, there is cause for conflict.
01:17:38.000He knew the plan was to expand NATO, and they lied to the Russians and made them believe that they wouldn't expand NATO just to get them out of the way.
01:17:48.000They lied us into Iraq War One as well.
01:17:50.000You're obviously familiar with the liberal economic order.
01:17:53.000So, you know, Ian brings that up quite a bit, and we've pulled up the Council on Foreign Relations website, outlining the liberal economic order, and plainly stating that after World War II, the fears of expanded war and nuclear annihilation led to this idea of the liberal economic order, which is a soft way of saying American empire.
01:18:37.000We can begin to see a new world order.
01:18:39.000Now, you get a bunch of people complaining about the idea of the New World Order, which literally is a reference to an expansion upon the CFR, the Liberal Economic Order, into a new version of it, which is American World Police, etc.
01:18:53.000The media runs out full speed screaming, the conspiracy theory of the New World Order, and what I think happens is, a lot of people fall victim to this.
01:19:02.000There's a legitimate concern over powerful interests internationally, corporate interests and their vassals in government, to create and maintain the liberal economic order and their new version of it.
01:19:18.000The media, because these people are easily, they're stupid and they're evil, not every single one, but a lot of them, they will take the legitimate story of the liberal economic order, pull the most absurd claims off the internet, create this psychotic conspiracy theory, and then say, anybody who's saying this believes the crazy conspiracy theory.
01:19:36.000To try and discredit the idea that there are people who are actually calmly and rationally saying, you know that thing you've been doing for a long time about trying to set up military bases everywhere to be a world police?
01:19:44.000I think it's a bad idea that's going to get us all killed.
01:19:46.000They say what he actually believes that lizard people have set up a base in the Denver airport.
01:20:11.000But the conspiracy theory is the opposite actually.
01:20:13.000The conspiracy theory is that ultimately they're going to create a one world federal government under the UN that will then conquer the United States and we'll have Chinese troops everywhere and it'll be like Red Dawn and we'll all be enslaved.
01:20:24.000And this is the thing which it's good for getting right-wingers interested in foreign policy and how dangerous all this stuff can be because Look, ultimately, you know, the John Birchers were the big pushers of the New World Order conspiracy, and the lesson that they were preaching basically was the only way to destroy America is to turn it into an overextended empire.
01:20:46.000Now, from their point of view, it was all deliberate.
01:21:37.000So let's get back to talking about the Palestinians here for a second because You know, people use Hamas and Palestinians interchangeably here.
01:21:45.000Like, all these people are guilty of the things that Hamas did.
01:21:48.000But, I mean, Tim, the reason I'm here right now is because I'm still not over Waco.
01:21:57.000But like, according to the logic of the people who want to bomb Gaza right now, I'm responsible for Waco.
01:22:03.000Because somehow I didn't prevent Bill Clinton from becoming president.
01:22:07.000And now it's okay to kill me and my family because of the things that Bill Clinton did.
01:22:12.000That was the logic that Osama bin Laden invoked in his letter to America in 2002.
01:22:18.000He said, you pay your taxes, you vote in elections, and boy, especially you Americans, always bragging and boasting about How self-governed you are?
01:22:27.000So then he said he had the right to kill us, which was in fact he was parroting Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright, who said that they had the right to kill innocent Iraqis in order to force them to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein.
01:22:42.000We think the price is worth it, as Madeleine Albright said, to kill innocent people to do what we want, to get what we want.
01:22:49.000I suppose the big question then becomes, what do we do?
01:22:55.000Well, like, that's why I brought up the maybe- We as Americans, first and foremost, the United States should adopt an absolutely non-interventionist foreign policy.
01:24:20.000And what happens is if you're a banker and you know that the Fed is going to bail you out, then you can make all kinds of lousy loans and it doesn't matter because you're going to be made whole.
01:24:29.000It's the same for like a bratty little kid in the neighborhood who likes to be a bully and pick fights because he knows he has an older brother that's going to bail him out if he gets into a fight with somebody that he can't handle.
01:24:40.000And so this is the same kind of situation with Israel.
01:24:44.000If America did not, well look at just the current situation.
01:24:48.000If Joe Biden didn't sail aircraft carriers right in there and tell Hezbollah, you better not think about it, and tell the government in Iraq, you better keep your militias under control and all that, Israel would already have to scale back their ambition here, right?
01:25:04.000So Israel is perfectly safe or Israel would have to scale back their, what do you mean?
01:25:09.000Yes, I'm saying that the more violence that Israel commits, and over the decades, the more they refuse to deal in good faith with the people in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the Palestinian people, the worse situation that they're in.
01:25:26.000The fact, Libby, that we're having this conversation in 2023 means that Netanyahu's policy is a terrible failure.
01:26:29.000He talked about How, for decades, for decades, the way that the Israelis dealt with terrorism in the territories, where they go in there and pick them off one at a time.
01:26:41.000You don't have to do a big war like this.
01:27:06.000It's like, I see you guys, we're having an argument over a foreign nation's capabilities of defense, and I'm just like, you want to talk about America?
01:27:14.000I'm just curious what he was— No, no, no, I'm not casting shade.
01:27:18.000I'm saying I think a lot of this debate that ends up in politics reverts back to the normative position of We as the United States are concerned and involved in foreign wars, and I'm kind of like, do you want to talk about Burma, Myanmar?
01:27:55.000Well, not only that, it's not just that.
01:27:58.000Tim, this goes to a point that you make a lot.
01:28:00.000You frequently say that the left doesn't have an ideology that's coherent, and to some degree I think you're right, but I really think that the left broadly is just anti-West, right?
01:28:13.000They're anti-capitalist, they're anti-America, and anything that's going on that is pushing back against Western society, which is why the people that are pro-Palestine, that are very anti-Israel, if they're leftists, the reason is because Israel is ostensibly a democracy and a Western-style country, and so it falls in line with the pushback against the West and the whole decolonization thing.
01:28:39.000I also think it's because you want to destroy the United States from within, and so we have foreign influence through social media and algorithms.
01:29:27.000But, he, he does a really great job asking questions, he doesn't attack people, he asks them honestly what they think and believe, and lets them answer.
01:30:22.000Well, because Ireland wasn't occupying England.
01:30:25.000It was the English who were the occupying power and who were brutally oppressing innocent civilians.
01:30:30.000And so you'd have English from time to time saying, geez, guys, this isn't right.
01:30:35.000Why would you have millions of American Jews?
01:30:39.000Opposed to the system in Israel right now.
01:30:42.000Well a bunch of it's because it's wrong funded by the same Well funded nothing groups that fund the SPLC and a bunch of other heavy let's maybe group Yeah, the JVA is maybe but you know what what it really is is America so fun what it is is American Jews are causes American Jews are liberals, and they believe in civil rights.
01:31:01.000And the fact is, the Palestinians have no civil rights and no civil liberties whatsoever.
01:31:07.000They would be slaves, except the Israelis don't want them.
01:31:31.000I'm a fan of the sentiment of we don't want civilian deaths, but I just keep coming back to the, you know, I would refer, I refer to it as Israel derangement syndrome because for some reason this cause for a lot of people is Paramount.
01:32:03.000The Iranian Revolution, the Iran-Iraq War, the 80s Afghan War, Iraq War I, Iraq War I and a half, Iraq War II, Somalia, Libya, Syria, and Yemen, and there's some Palestine in here.
01:32:14.000And I'm writing a book about Russia right now.
01:32:16.000And why are 16-year-olds chanting in the hallways of their school, Free Free Palestine?
01:32:29.000Why does it always, like, I'm gonna... Look, when I was a kid, we said, kill them all, nuke Baghdad, whatever, which is worse.
01:32:37.000My point is, I'm just continually at the point where I'm like, y'all can go protest for any country in the world you want, I don't care, they're not us.
01:32:44.000In Marjorie Taylor Greene's resolution that she brought before the House to have Rashida Tlaib censored, she said, Tlaib said the Holocaust gave her a calming feeling.
01:32:55.000Okay, I want an original source on that.
01:35:31.000Tim, today you gave a master class in dealing with the delusional.
01:35:34.000I swear you deserve an honorary PhD in clinical psychology.
01:35:37.000This morning was an awesome conversation with Cenk Uygur, and for those that watched, you probably noticed there was one point of contention when I began discussing George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery.
01:35:47.000Cenk got very heated about that one, did not want to hear any arguments or points, said it was racist, and I felt We're better off focusing on solutions and ideas and try to pull away from what I thought was devolving things into an irrational, WWE-style drama fight.
01:36:04.000But that was probably the only point at which I felt like it got to that point.
01:36:08.000I see a lot of people are saying that I'm very patient or whatever and it's a mix.
01:36:12.000There's a lot of people who want me to just tell him he's wrong no matter what every single step of the way whenever I think he's wrong but the purpose of a show like this is I'm interviewing the guy and asking what he thinks so he can try and articulate it and I can get the best honest understanding but more importantly when Cenk comes out and starts saying that it's racist to bring up the facts of the case in Ahmaud Arbery that's for you guys to watch.
01:36:33.000It's not to see me come out and say something like, let's, you know, it's not for me to argue with and be like, no, how dare you say that?
01:36:38.000You know, you think you can come in here?
01:36:41.000That's just people eating popcorn and laughing at a fight.
01:36:43.000I want you to hear what Jenk's argument is, and then you figure out if you agree or disagree.
01:36:48.000And I think often when it comes to a lot of these arguments, they'll say things that you'll find, hey, that's actually not a well thought out thing to say, or maybe you agree with them.
01:36:57.000But that's the point is to have them say it.
01:37:45.000Um, what I will say is, we did this documentary with Lauren Southern, we're really excited, but, uh, Lauren is gonna be working with Tenet, so I don't know, uh, to what degree- What documentary did you do?
01:37:56.000With Lauren, we did one, it's called Infringed.
01:39:39.000Tim cast is entirely separate company.
01:39:40.000We did a deal with them so we could we could it's a multi-front battle in the culture war but I really do think there's a lot more to be said and I'll save it for when they do all their big announcements and they want to you know I don't want to step on anyone's toes but it's going to be it's going to be epic.
01:40:20.000I think the most important thing that came out of that was the question over who has a right to be president.
01:40:25.000And I know a lot of conservatives will have the more immediate response of, you have to be born in this country or born to American parents.
01:40:33.000And my point was, Chinese Communist Party members Having a surrogate in California give birth to their son, who is now a natural born citizen, who within an hour of being born is flown back to China, who is raised in China, and then a loyal CCP member comes to the United States and wants to be president.
01:40:55.000So the line isn't just if you were born here because there's issues that we have to deal with right now with People coming here just to, you know, having their kids just to be born here so they get these rights and access.
01:41:04.000So the question is, what should the test and restriction be if we're going to have one?
01:41:12.000He argued the 14th Amendment has already determined you can be president even if you weren't born here.
01:41:18.000I don't think the Supreme Court sides with him, but he's saying he's going to win and all that stuff.
01:41:21.000He has to say that, you know, to be fair, he's making the argument.
01:41:24.000But, you know, my point was, who would you rather have As president, someone who is a Chinese Communist Party member and official, who was born in California, spent three days here, and then was raised in China, or Dinesh D'Souza.
01:41:49.000I never could figure out why in a country of 300 million people we gotta settle for the scum that runs for the highest office in the country.
01:41:56.000Because in a country that has so much opportunity, like America, people that are skilled and they can do actually good things.
01:42:21.000In fact, if anyone's collecting these quotes, it's your ultimate resource for quotes of Benjamin Netanyahu and his men explaining why they like Hamas ruling the Gaza Strip so they don't have to deal in good faith with the Palestinians on the West Bank.
01:42:59.000I mean, no disrespect when I ask my point is running for president is very very very hard.
01:43:04.000You have to have something deeply wrong with you Dave Smith would have to be like my family's not important to decide to run for president.
01:43:12.000I mean, especially as a libertarian you could do a half-assed job and still be you know, all right, Dave, where you at?
01:43:18.000The problem that we've had in the Libertarian Party for a very long time, since Harry Brown, is we've ended up, we've essentially, well, Baden O'Rourke was, I don't know, we have Presidential candidates who don't understand the philosophy and don't know how to talk about it and don't know, you know, we have Bob Barr and Gary Johnson and that's right.
01:44:29.000And what's so funny is, what's so funny about that too, is that if he had known what he was talking about, if he cared at all to know about the Syria war, he could have had such a great fight with them.
01:44:39.000Because you want to talk about Aleppo?
01:44:42.000That's where Barack Obama backs the suicide bomber, head shopper murderers of Al-Qaeda and where the secular dictator with the clean-shaven chin in the three-piece suit who protects the rights of Christians and Shiites and other minorities in the country is trying to save that city from America's mercenary terrorist forces.
01:45:27.000Just after that, within a couple of months after that, not even, a few weeks after that, the Assad government finished retaking that town, the jihadists all got on buses to the Idlib province, and then what happened?
01:45:40.000They had Christmas, and all the Christians came back, and all the civilian population of Aleppo came back.
01:45:46.000The city was saved by Bashar al-Assad from the real genocidal murderer, Barack Hussein Obama.
01:47:43.000So, uh, as for the sleeping in a park with a ton of money, what I will say is, to varying degrees, you must determine the amount of risk you are willing to take, and I would not recommend anyone take any risk.
01:47:52.000If someone comes to me and says, I want to go report from Turkey and Istanbul during mass protests, I would say, don't ask me, because I'll tell you not to do it.
01:48:38.000But I cannot be responsible for someone else's and I've been in some serious conflict stuff where they have strapped people to my ankles and I'm like, I have to keep this person alive now?
01:48:57.000I have no problem running and jumping over walls and breathing in tear gas and bullets are flying and I'm hitting the deck, but the moment you put someone with me who doesn't have any capabilities, and I know if I abandon them, that I was in Venezuela, They're National Guard, they're shooting at people.
01:49:14.000They had been shooting at people in the past, so when these protests happened, they weren't shooting where I was, I don't believe.
01:49:19.000When something snapped between the National Guard and the students, everyone runs.
01:49:58.000And so that for me was like, if you can't do this, if you're not trained, I'm sorry.
01:50:02.000I am not skilled enough to be able to be a fixer for you guys.
01:50:06.000And I think about, there are a lot of journalists I know who are dumb as a box of rocks and they'll get some like, you know, Iraq war veteran to be their security head.
01:50:48.000It's- it's- no, it's not a cop city, it's a fake favela.
01:50:50.000It's a training center that's designed to be like a favela, and we're on the top of a building, and I- I- and he's explaining, like, you know, it's very narrow corridors, and I said, what do you do now?
01:51:01.000The guy jumps, and he goes- he smiles, and he just- he- he- he grabs the wall and he jumps down, and then I jump down right after him, and he's like, yeah!
01:51:08.000And he gives me a- he gives me a high-five, like, I just jumped off a building with this guy.
01:51:12.000So he's like, I've had meetings with security guards and I'm like, I've been skateboarding for 20 years, and they're like, okay, good.
01:51:19.000So when I tell you, you move, you'll be quick, I get it.
01:51:22.000And then you have the other journalists who are morbidly obese, and don't know what gunshots sound like, and they're like, alright.
01:51:31.000Yeah, but we gotta read some more, we gotta read some more.
01:51:33.000But my point ultimately there is, if someone comes to me and says, Tim, I'd like to report for you in the Middle East, I'd say, nope, because I can't be responsible for you.
01:51:41.000A lot of news organizations will not allow you, they will not hire you, it won't happen.
01:51:45.000This is why they do hire military veterans.
01:51:47.000So if you're like, ah, Tim said, sit in the park with five grand, I'm like, oh bro, I've done crazier things than that.
01:52:50.000One of my real advantages, you know, when I was a boy, third grade, my hero was Encyclopedia Brown.
01:52:56.000His he the crime solver and his thing is he remembers everything he reads and that's that's really my talent and I I can I kind of picture the I can I can remember the colors in the shape of the website really helps me remember where I read what and when and that kind of thing.
01:53:12.000IsThisDom says General Clark wanted to attack Russian military in Kosovo.
01:53:16.000James Blunt and his CO refused Clark's orders to attack a Russian-controlled airport.
01:53:20.000Yeah, so this is what I was mentioning earlier about World War III there, yeah.
01:53:22.000Clark would have started World War III in the 90s.
01:54:28.000For a PC, but he was the boss during Waco, and General Shoemaker, who was the commander of Delta Force, it's really General Shoemaker who murdered those people, but he was working for Clark at the time, and so those men's responsibility for that is still to come due.
01:54:43.000Legama says, Tim, I'd like to see this man debate historian Benny Morris about the 1948 war.
01:55:06.000He has done more to tell the truth about what happened during the Nakba to the poor people of Palestine than probably anyone else.
01:55:14.000He's a revisionist historian in Israel and then he also is a total hawk who says that they should have finished the job and cleansed them all, all the way out of there.
01:55:22.000So he's a total hawk but he's an honest guy and he has done probably more for establishing the real truth of what happened in the Nakba than any other Israeli historian.
01:55:31.000I would love to debate Benny Morris, Tim.
01:55:36.000And I'll bring my skateboard that day for sure.
01:55:38.000We should definitely do a culture war where we can find somebody who would like to have a debate with you on all this stuff if you'd be interested.
01:56:02.000I say this about Hasan and Cenk Uygur.
01:56:04.000I'm like, guys, guys, if someone's got a full-time job where they're running a company and hosting a show, if someone said, Tim Pool, why don't you fly to LA and debate a guy?
01:56:12.000I'll be like, well, I'm running a company.
01:56:16.000I took a week off of writing my book to read Nothing But Israel stuff and prepare for this show to come out here and try to do my best for you guys.
01:59:02.000And look, I think this is something that you guys deal with a lot when you're dealing with the left is all these ridiculous accusations of racism.
01:59:08.000You guys were talking about some of this a little bit earlier in the show today.
01:59:11.000But it's the same thing on the right with the claims about anti-Semitism.
01:59:14.000I bet you could probably testify to this more than any other person or just as well as me.
01:59:19.000Any person involved with online alternative media can tell you that anyone who's actually an anti-Semite We'll tell you that they are, and we'll try to convince you to also be.
01:59:31.000And so when you hear right-wingers throwing around Jew-hater and anti-Semite when we're talking about Israel-Palestine, that ought to sound as ridiculous in your ear as when everybody calls you a racist just because you disagree about the minimum wage or whatever it is that they're stupid on, you know?
01:59:47.000Missykin says, Tim, how did you not want to punch Cenk during the Culture War interview today for saying you attract right-wingers because you look at the nuance in each of the high-profile police killings?
01:59:57.000I don't wanna hit... I don't wanna hit anyone.
02:00:02.000Sometimes in self-defense, you have to.
02:00:04.000I think the most I've ever gotten is saying that I wanted to punch my monitor screen or something, but, you know, it's about tech, but no, no, no, no, listen, listen.
02:00:41.000At least we get Julian Assange pardoned.
02:00:43.000All right, and I can bet he's not going to start foreign wars.
02:00:47.000Now, all the other stuff I think is probably going to be awful.
02:00:49.000And I say Romney, not that he's running, but because he's the example of that garbage Republican and Joe Biden is the garbage Democrat.
02:00:57.000They're going to screw me over every way and have war.
02:01:01.000So, like, if the best I can get is Is Janku for gun control and a bunch of woke policy and stuff?
02:01:08.000You know, that's what I wanted to focus on.
02:01:10.000But understand, when I began talking about George Floyd and then he lost it, I'm like, I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
02:01:19.000I'm asking you, what is the answer to, there is a man behind the wheel of an SUV chewing on a speedball, methamphetamine and fentanyl, should the police not intervene?
02:02:17.000I'm now going to show my friends and family and I say, this is what an argument looks like when you try bringing up the nuance in a criminal trial.
02:02:27.000I was just really glad to see the conversation.
02:02:30.000I mean, it's so rare, and you guys talked about this in the interview, like it's so rare to see people from, you know, sort of divergent political perspectives actually have a conversation, you know?
02:02:42.000Well, Max Blumenthal came on, he said the same thing, he's like, we're probably going to disagree on a lot, and I'm like, then let's just win all of the things we can win on, that we want, and then go back to complaining about each other.
02:02:58.000Look, I'm a libertarian, and so that means I know that no matter what, like, if I die at 85, we're still going to be a tiny minority of the population of the country.
02:03:07.000So I can try to recruit as many new libertarians as I can, but I also just want to help the right and the left to prioritize to be the least worst right and the left that they could be as well, you know what I mean?
02:03:20.000The majority of this country is anti-war.
02:03:22.000I absolutely agree with that, and especially that it's really changing on the right.
02:03:26.000Unfortunately, this Israel thing has really kind of thrown a monkey wrench in the America first right, but only temporarily, I think.
02:03:32.000It was interesting, though, to hear Mike Johnson talk about funding for Israel today because he at least said that any money that he would advocate for to go to Israel would have to come from somewhere else in the budget.
02:03:48.000I would ideally say that, you know, it would be pulled from different foreign programs.
02:03:51.000By the way, you know, Libby asked me a question earlier that I actually didn't get a chance to answer, but I'll just be real brief about the, because we talked about 48 a little bit, but just kind of this ongoing narrative that the Israelis keep trying to give the Palestinians a state and they always say no, that that's just really not true.
02:04:10.000And in fact, I have a book here that I was reading today.
02:04:12.000I didn't quite finish it today, but It's what really happened or the secret history of Camp David in the year 2000 and how Arafat just took all the blame that they try to give him a whole state and he refused to do it.
02:04:24.000And what happens is they essentially set him up to be the rejectionist and then they go, aha, see?
02:04:31.000And in fact in the book they show where Bill Clinton agreed and promised Arafat, if it all falls apart, I promise I won't blame you because you're right.
02:04:39.000They're being Real sticklers about this, that, and the other.
02:04:42.000Forget the details for a second, but the deal is not coming through.
02:04:45.000The Israelis are not being as generous as they say, whatever.
02:04:49.000And then when the deal falls apart, they go, aha!
02:05:16.000If you're talking about Sandy Berger stealing documents, that's a different thing.
02:05:19.000But these Palestine Papers reveal that the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas, they have just been bending over backwards to accommodate the Israelis.
02:05:29.000They've been willing to give up all of their claims on East Jerusalem.
02:05:32.000They've been willing to give up all their claims on all but like the Three biggest settlements that prevent the West Bank from being contiguous and this kind of deal and then it's the Israelis who won't negotiate in good faith and you can read the Palestine papers that they really demonstrate this.
02:05:49.000We're gonna wrap it up there everybody if you haven't already would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to the channel, share the show with your friends, become a member at TimCast.com if you want to support our work.
02:05:58.000It's Friday, so we're going to go take some days to relax, but I'm always reading the news.
02:06:02.000We're going to have clips up throughout the weekend.