5 Antifa members are charged with domestic terrorism in Georgia, Aaron Ruppar is suspended, Alex Stein should have been shot for entering his office, and more! Today's After Show Was Hosted By: Alex Blumberg ( ) and Matt Knost ( )
00:01:04.000He said his dad's hardly a right-wing conservative, but all of a sudden now his dad's coming out saying he was radicalized by Gamergate or something.
00:01:09.000And I'm just, I'm watching it and like, I don't believe any of it.
00:01:12.000I don't believe the story that the official narrative he's a right-wing crate nut attacking the Pelosi's, and I don't believe he was a sex slave, but this story is just nuts.
00:01:37.000Aaron Ruppar, you know him, you love him, just got suspended.
00:01:40.000We don't know exactly what's going on yet, so we're gonna let that story stew.
00:01:44.000Hit a little refresh in a few minutes and see what the updates are, but this is the famous Rupar, where you take a story, twist it out of context, and then, la, you know, Ruparing, he got suspended.
00:01:53.000They also suspended It's Going Down in Antifa account.
00:02:58.000Personally, it's my favorite and, you know, they want me to say that, but it is true because we had someone who brought a different kind before and I was like, it's not really that good.
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00:03:58.000I'm hoping that with the launch of our first cafe, coffee shop, community hangout, I'm hoping by this time next year we'll have, I want to say ten, but let's say four.
00:04:08.000I'm hoping that we can set up these hubs, these places where you can grab a cup of coffee, hang out, read a book, watch a show, and just start creating physical spaces in various places.
00:06:05.000I will tell you, by the way, it's not a Balenciaga mask, because I felt I didn't want to give money to the satanic pedophiles, so this is...
00:06:14.000There's also the Balenciaga one's very expensive.
00:07:29.000Yeah, we actually had to deploy Surge to Arizona, because we're going to be at Turning Point USA on Monday, doing the whole show on stage with a rotating panel of guests.
00:07:39.000And I can only imagine it's going to get crazy and silly.
00:07:42.000And I'm like, I can't say who the guests are just yet, because we don't like to, but I'm like, oh, we're getting banned.
00:07:54.000We're going to do the show like normal, but we'll be on stage with 10,000 people, and then we're going to have great guests come in who are going to say spicy things.
00:08:15.000So this story is from the other day, but it's just, it's too much.
00:08:19.000Quote, for all we know, he was some sort of sex slave, son of Paul Pelosi's alleged attacker, says his father is not evil, believes in human rights, and is hardly a right-wing conservative.
00:08:32.000So, he said, quote, He isn't a danger to society.
00:08:36.000I don't even know if he even attacked Mr. Pelosi.
00:08:38.000For all that we know, he was some sort of sex slave, as Elon Musk pointed out.
00:09:13.000I said don't give him any benefit of the doubt.
00:09:16.000Let's go off at the craziest things and let's say that's a possibility here because of the absence of evidence, because they're hiding so much information, because they're changing their story time and time again.
00:09:24.000Because they're suspending the NBC reporters who put together a very serious news report.
00:09:43.000And what his son says, I mean, it's important to pay attention to.
00:09:46.000He also goes on, talked about how his father, the person accused here, believes in equality, justice, how he was an activist against the war, how he was a peace activist.
00:09:55.000He was, quote, hardly a right-wing conservative.
00:09:58.000When we look at the media, they framed this entire attack as, we need to go after all the conspiracy theorists.
00:10:03.000These conspiracy theorists are dangerous!
00:10:09.000That's the narrative that they were going with, that's the agenda that they were going with, and it failed right on its face.
00:10:14.000I think the conservative mention is what really is like a red light to me.
00:10:18.000That they mention and call him a right-wing activist is like it puts everything else into question about the story.
00:10:23.000Not that it should, because maybe they're just picking one thing, but he's obviously like a Green Party hippie.
00:10:29.000The other way you know that there's a lot more going on here is that the story just disappeared immediately, right?
00:10:33.000Because what they told us was that the Speaker of the House of Representatives had her home invaded so that someone could murder her.
00:10:40.000So if that actually happened, It just seems to me like the sort of thing that we ought to be talking about a little bit more, but then when these details came out, like when NBC reported that Paul Pelosi himself opened the door, did not seem to be in distress, walked back to his alleged attacker, when it came out that this attacker actually wasn't some right-winger, he was living on some weird sort of rainbow-colored commune type thing, when all of these, when you heard the dispatch phone call, then all of a sudden,
00:11:07.000The story just completely went away. Yep. Just like Club Q, just like the Las Vegas shooting,
00:11:13.000just like so many other large events that we somehow don't want to talk about now very
00:11:17.000conveniently. They just don't sell tickets. I mean, it's impossible for them to prove a lot
00:11:22.000of the stuff they claim because there's no video that I've seen. They have a story that works
00:11:25.000towards their benefit that they're going to use and emotionally exploit in order to push for
00:11:32.000Once those versions of events are different, they don't have their conclusion that they conveniently came up with as soon as the event happened right away.
00:11:40.000So, sorry, I just wanted to explain what happened.
00:11:42.000Well, they're trying to drive a cultural shift, a narrative, and when they can't, they can't, and they stop.
00:11:48.000For record, I mean, I believe the Pelosi's, when they're not home, they have security at the house, even when they're not there.
00:11:53.000They're one of the richest people in the world.
00:11:55.000To think that they don't have security is absolutely crazy.
00:12:13.000I mean, Pelosi was calling for machine guns at the Capitol.
00:12:17.000Literally every single semi-bougie millennial has so many camera security systems around his home constantly recording on their phones all the time.
00:12:28.000Anybody who is at all in political prominence has heavy security, if not 24-7 home security.
00:12:34.000You're telling me that the person third in line to the U.S.
00:12:37.000presidency just whoopsie-daisy, didn't have any cameras and didn't have any... just absurd.
00:13:42.000And so somehow it turned into, I guess what happens is you get a lot of people then pointing out that these woke journalists are writing this fake wokeness stuff and it becomes somewhat culture war-y, like it does elevate to that point, but like the initial issue of GamerGate, this makes no sense.
00:14:01.000It's like somebody who read a Wikipedia entry about the culture war is trying to convince you that they were a part of it from the beginning.
00:14:11.000The weirdest thing about this is, if the guy's kids come out and say, he's not a conservative, he's a Green Party guy, but this guy is going into court and saying that he was going to target Tom Hanks and Gavin Newsom, I don't believe him.
00:14:53.000I have a different explanation, and it goes kind of further down the rabbit hole, to say the least.
00:14:58.000And I think it should go down the rabbit hole, especially with how powerful, how sinister, how absolutely evil the core power inside of the United States really is, especially with all the private islands that they go to.
00:15:09.000And we only are scratching at the surface to the true reality of what's happening behind the scenes there.
00:15:15.000Never give them the benefit of the doubt.
00:16:04.000I understand your point, though, Luke.
00:16:06.000Don't give them the benefit of the doubt if they're not going to release the video so we can see what happens.
00:16:11.000In a world where Creepy Pedo Island exists, and in a world where everything—I know we're on YouTube, so I'll be really super careful—where every single thing we've been told by anyone in authority for the past two and a half years is totally fake, in a world Then in that world it is reasonable, it is more reasonable to assume that Paul and Nancy Pelosi every single night are whipping and torturing this random guy than it is to believe the CNN version of it.
00:17:02.000I am willing to say, fine, this guy's kid says, for all we know, he was a sex slave, and they need to produce the evidence to prove otherwise.
00:17:12.000Now, in all sincerity, I think this guy's probably just a crazy person, and I think if there was a story that made sense outside of the official narrative or the conspiracy theory, drug deal gone wrong.
00:17:23.000Yeah, his son I think said, David the Paps' son said that David was like abused growing up.
00:17:28.000I think he lived with his grandparents and they were real abusive so he would spend his days away from home at the ocean just like waiting for them to be asleep by the time he gets home.
00:17:36.000A messed up guy, like messed up in his childhood kind of guy.
00:17:39.000Most sane people don't like jump at the opportunity to go deal drugs to a politician or Most sane people would not want to spend any time near the Pelosi.
00:17:49.000It's too dangerous, I mean, just for your own livelihood to get involved with that.
00:17:52.000Let's just break something down real quick, right?
00:17:55.000I just want, I don't want to believe anything, I want proof.
00:17:58.000And so I'm willing to say your official narrative in the courts is total bunk BS because you've not explained anything properly or given us video footage.
00:18:06.000But to me, if I was gonna, if I'm looking at a roulette wheel with a bunch of different outcomes for this story and I gotta put my chips down, I'm putting it on, why aren't there, why isn't there footage of it?
00:18:16.000Paul turned the cameras off because he was buying drugs.
00:18:45.000The guy was a Green Party leftist, right?
00:18:48.000So if you're someone like Pelosi and you need discretion, you also want to make sure you've got someone who's not going to go, it's Paul Pelosi!
00:18:55.000Someone you can throw under the bus later?
00:18:58.000Not so much that, but someone that is less likely, like, I'm not going to invite a Grubhub driver over here who's got an Antifa profile.
00:19:07.000We don't want to let someone of those ideas, we want to make sure, so for the most part we're not really worried about deliveries, I'm just saying, I'm not saying it's true or guaranteed.
00:19:16.000I'm just saying I lean towards, I bet dude called up his connect and said, you know, he wanted coke or something.
00:19:22.000Told security guards, hey, take a walk.
00:19:26.000The reason why he told the cops, I don't know who he is, but he's a friend, is because he invited him over, but was not familiar with who he was.
00:19:33.000The reason why he answers the door politely and says, we're taking care of it, is because he doesn't want things to get, you know, I just, I kind of feel like dude was buying drugs.
00:20:09.000We're not going to find out any more information.
00:20:11.000The story is just going to disappear because it doesn't serve their narrative, and it's really weird, and it raises a lot of questions about them.
00:20:18.000They wrote a hit piece about us because we were talking about this subject, you know, a week or so ago, or two weeks ago.
00:20:23.000The leftist media machine starts writing, you know, Tim Kast IRL, pushing insane conspiracies, and it's... I'm sorry guys in the media, if you don't have anything to actually say, you can't say anything about us.
00:20:37.000If you're like, we have no evidence, we have no idea what happens, but it's whatever the government said.
00:20:42.000It doesn't fly, and I don't care what you think.
00:20:44.000No, it's too dangerous to make claims about what happened.
00:20:46.000This guy's life's on the line right now, David DePapp.
00:20:49.000He could go away to prison for the rest of his life.
00:21:27.000And you know, by the way, you're telling me they're telling the truth here?
00:21:30.000The way that's being covered is, oh, NBC made a mistake and then they edited it.
00:21:35.000This wasn't like a typo in an article.
00:21:37.000There was a fully fleshed out, several minutes long TV news segment where an investigative journalist went in and covered moment by moment what happened, and then with no explanation whatsoever, NBC just pulled the And another media organization covered it as well.
00:21:54.000Did the same reporting based off police sources.
00:21:57.000That NBC reporter, he wasn't making things up.
00:23:35.000I put out that tweet where I was like, Nora Link was, I used to think it was scary and dangerous, but then Elon agreed with me ideologically, now I like it.
00:23:41.000Like, I'd be willing to bet anyone on the right who's crazy enough to track down Musk would be like, we love you, Elon!
00:24:37.000Well, I define free speech as the... I define free speech, I suppose, as the Founding Fathers might have defined free speech, which is... or even as John Locke, the father of liberalism, might have defined free speech, which is not totally free.
00:24:55.000Which is, yes, we have broad toleration for lots of different things, but there are limits.
00:25:17.000Yes, it's true that the libs have speech codes, but chivalry is a speech code too, you know, and I'm all for chivalry I'm all for banning people who are Degrading our society.
00:25:28.000I mean, you know just as a matter of historical fact Speech, earlier on in American history, was much more restricted, in certain ways, than it is right now.
00:25:38.000We had blasphemy laws for much of American history.
00:26:18.000And I'm very curious to see what happened here, and I'm more skeptical because I believe at the end of the day, even though we might not agree with each other, I'd still rather have that conversation rather than say, I just only want to hear myself.
00:26:30.000Do we need to have a conversation about the virtues of child pornography?
00:27:04.000But again, if you push people away, just like you do with the censorship that's been happening, you push people to more radicalized corners of the internet, and they double down on their ideas, rather than having a whole bunch of people telling them, hey, this is wrong and not acceptable here.
00:27:18.000By pushing them away, they won't have that kind of pushback in their life, and they're like, okay, I'm just gonna hang around other, you know, seedy people and think this is okay when it's not.
00:27:26.000I actually would agree with you, Michael, on this one.
00:27:30.000I see Luke's point, but I think it can be refined.
00:27:32.000Like, there's a reason why we publicly denounce.
00:27:34.000There's a reason why you're saying right now, we don't need to have a debate.
00:27:41.000And that means that there will come a time when you need to explain to someone who maybe says, well, people should be allowed to have their opinions.
00:27:49.000And you can be like, look, there are some things that are so morally reprehensible that it's universally despised among most human beings.
00:27:57.000And, you know, we will tell you why it's bad.
00:28:00.000I mean, this was William F. Buckley, Jr., who was credited as the founder of the mainstream post-war conservative movement.
00:28:07.000As urbane and open-minded a fellow as ever there was, he had a debate on his show with a neoconservative, Leo Chern.
00:28:16.000and uh... churn said we need to have the open society in the free marketplace of
00:28:22.000you know i actually think we can close society off a little bit
00:28:25.000yes we discuss lots of things but he said i'm an epistemological optimist i think
00:28:30.000that certain things are settled and we don't really need to entertain nazis or
00:28:33.000commies your political opponents are doing the same exact thing you're doing
00:28:36.000in europe arresting people for saying that men can't be lesbians They're using the same justifications and arguments you are, and this is why I think it's a slippery slope.
00:28:43.000No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no They're saying, I know what's best for society.
00:28:58.000Therefore, if you there hurt people with your ideas, we have to stop you, censor you, and throw you in jail.
00:29:02.000But Luke, the difference is that there's a difference between good and bad.
00:29:07.000So if I'm the CEO of Twitter, and I'm determining what the standards and norms are on Twitter, and I encourage good, true, and beautiful things, and I discourage ugly, false, and wicked things, that's not the same thing as what the libs do.
00:29:21.000based on your interpretation because for them what's beautiful is like a drag queen.
00:29:25.000That's beautiful for them. But Luke, that's your interpretation. But they're wrong is
00:29:28.000the thing. And so we have faculties of reason and moral conscience and we can perceive the
00:29:32.000world and come to fairly reliable conclusions. Let me just make a point here. We like to
00:29:38.000believe that the law is, that the world is logical. That we can set forth a set of rules
00:29:43.000that say you cannot do X, Y, and Z. And then what we discover is the interpretations of
00:29:48.000X, Y, and Z vary wildly and we actually struggle to operate.
00:29:53.000Humans struggle to operate on a moral, logical level in that if you come out and say,
00:30:01.000You know, don't be mean, don't be bad, don't hurt somebody, and then someone says, okay, well, insulting you is my opinion, I'm not hurting, and then someone else interprets it as hurting, we see there's an issue there.
00:30:11.000My view is, I err towards mostly free speech, I agree with you on things like child porn, I think there's probably things we can say, do not advocate for something like that, right?
00:30:23.000If you're advocating for that on the platform, we can restrict you or shut you down or something like this.
00:30:27.000The issue is, and I'll throw it back to the law, We have a bunch of laws in the books, legally you cannot do, but they don't enforce anymore because our culture changed.
00:30:38.000Which means there is a centralized morality that societies are willing to tolerate.
00:30:44.000That means we don't tolerate advocacy for child porn and there's no reason to open up tolerance to it.
00:31:08.000It's really just a libertarian view, but it's not passing laws and just, you know, I don't know, make, you know, Make better music or something.
00:31:14.000And I'm not really mocking it, obviously the culture matters a great deal, but you can't neatly separate these things, and the law is a teacher.
00:31:22.000So if I'm looking at how we got to this insane cultural position now, where we will be debating the virtues of child pornography and pedos, it's already happening.
00:31:53.000When we had a more censor-minded regime that censored bad things and promoted good things, as opposed to what we have now, which is a censorship regime that promotes bad things and suppresses good things.
00:32:06.000Well, I would say, let's see, the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock in 1620, and then from 1620 up through the founding of the American nation, up through about, I don't know, the early sixties, we had a basic consensus on what is moral and what is immoral, and it was Christianity.
00:32:25.000It was based on the Christian moral view.
00:32:28.000And then in the 1960s you saw Led by the government, led by Supreme Court decisions, led by laws that weakened some of the censorship regime.
00:32:41.000You saw the attacks on McCarthyism in the House Un-American Activities Committee.
00:32:46.000You saw the free speech movement at Berkeley that led to a weakening of our obscenity laws.
00:32:51.000You saw a weakening of our laws proscribing certain sexual behaviors that then led to
00:33:31.000I mean, since the dawn of man, the guys fall in line or face the consequences.
00:33:36.000But is your argument that in the past, you know, the past was basically made up of these knuckle-dragging troglodyte men abusing their wives, and ever since we had the sexual revolution, now That doesn't happen?
00:33:50.000That just seems like a very progressive, fantastical point of view.
00:33:53.000I think it was the internet, or it was really television and radio that broke the censorship mode.
00:33:59.000Whether we wanted it or not, the technology made us look at ourselves and be like, that's what we are?
00:34:04.000We need to deal with this, because that's not cool.
00:34:05.000But just really quick, deciding what's good and deciding what's bad is arbitrary.
00:34:08.000Depends for who, depends for what society.
00:34:12.000But at the end of the day, the government's sitting there and saying, you know, Dr. Fauci's there, and he's like, you know, at the end of the day, it's good for society if we censor all these other scientists, and we let our doctrine through.
00:34:23.000So therefore, we need to censor this speech, we need to limit free speech, we need to ban accounts, and essentially that's what I see you calling for.
00:34:32.000I err towards free speech, allow people to express their political views, to be debated, but I think there's a little bit more limits than many of the anarchists and libertarians would be willing to entertain.
00:34:42.000And the reason I've come to this position, where I used to just be like, well, maybe you can say whatever you want, is because the system, as it's being laid out right now by you, in your view, Luke, allows the left to say whatever they want, while weaponizing that to silence anyone who opposes them.
00:34:56.000Meanwhile, you're standing there saying, well, they're allowed to do it, I guess I'm banned and they're not.
00:35:01.000No, no, no, the idea of banning speech is what created this exact society, and that's why these larger virtues and ideas need to be pushed back on and universally respected.
00:35:10.000What I'm saying is, they are cheating, and you're playing fair, and you're losing because of it.
00:35:14.000Also, Luke, what society doesn't have taboos?
00:35:16.000In what society is everything perfectly open?
00:35:19.000I mean, that's never existed on Earth anywhere.
00:35:21.000I agree, yeah, you're right about that, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive towards something that's impossible.
00:35:28.000No, no, towards respecting speech and debating ideas.
00:35:31.000Let's bring this back to the core story, right?
00:35:34.000The issue is Elon Musk choosing to ban who he wants.
00:35:37.000And my position, because I think this might argument just go forever, but I think if we can bring this back to the story, Elon Musk needs to set clearly defined parameters for what he wants, but then we also need judges to interpret.
00:35:53.000In the United States, we have laws, but laws can be challenged and judges interpret the law.
00:35:59.000So when a court, when a legislative body says, you can't do X, someone says, well, hold on.
00:36:05.000X could also include Y. And then a judge says, good question.
00:36:10.000The judge then looks at the law, looks at the precedent, hears the arguments, and then issues his judgment.
00:36:14.000The law is not just a, if yes, then, you know, if one, then Y, if two, then... It is humans trying their best to interpret The easiest way to put it is analog, it's not digital.
00:36:28.000That means we want it to be, there's free speech, we respect this, but then when you actually start looking into it, you're like, oh hold on, now we're getting into the advocacy for child porn part from the left.
00:36:40.000At a certain point we're like, it may not be a call for violence, But are we going to tolerate that level of advocacy?
00:36:47.000That analogy, it's the analog, not the digital.
00:36:51.000The law is not just a bunch of letters that self-interpret on a sheet of paper, but it involves a human aspect.
00:36:58.000And what this raises, this interpretive question, I think undercuts what you're saying about good and bad.
00:37:06.000Good and bad are just arbitrary, but you don't believe that.
00:37:44.000But it just shows the absurdity of what you said, which is, we all know that it's better, even if she's allergic, it's still better to cook the pie for the widow than it is to kick the baby in the head.
00:39:37.000It was a good thing, but then it was challenged, and because it was challenged, because people said, hey, this is not okay, hey, this is wrong.
00:39:55.000No, obviously there was weaponry, but obviously what led up to it was a bunch of meetings, a bunch of talks, a bunch of escalations, a bunch of things that were related to trade, were related to embargoes, so it was a slow... Chamberlain spoke and Churchill shot, right?
00:40:09.000The reason the left holds the position they do is their argument is that Hitler was allowed to hold his rallies and to indoctrinate and to expand and he was not sufficiently opposed and his rhetoric was winning people over because of their desperation.
00:40:24.000He was basically exploiting their grievances to trick them into the psychotic ideology.
00:40:27.000He was also suppressing people he didn't agree with.
00:40:32.000How did he rise to the point where he could do that?
00:40:34.000He manipulated and exploited people's emotions, their grievances over World War I and the debt to France, things like that, the poor economy.
00:40:42.000He gave them things they wanted and then twisted that into his insane grievances.
00:40:47.000It's also worth remembering, you know, everyone always makes World War II comparisons because it's like the only thing that anyone's ever read.
00:40:55.000But, you know, the thing that's important to remember before we get too down the rabbit hole of thinking we live in, you know, the 1930s or 20s or something, Weimar Germany was completely destroyed.
00:43:00.000If you're doing a show in a city where you constantly vote for and pay taxes and support the stripping away of your right to keep and bear arms, you don't get to say someone who entered a public office should be shot.
00:43:10.000Now, that being said, we here in Western Maryland and West Virginia, with Castle Doctrine and active threats against us and armed guards, I will say there's a big difference.
00:43:20.000If someone stormed through, first of all you gotta enter a large property, you have to go past physical barricades saying, do not enter, you are being warned, you will be shot.
00:43:29.000Then if somebody broke in here, I'd be like, yeah, you'd probably get shot.
00:45:38.000And when you live in New York City and you pay taxes in New York City, you're paying for 15 plus minute response times, not for your right to defend yourself.
00:45:45.000So if you want to defend yourself, obviously you have a right to do that.
00:45:49.000You know, the question's blurred here.
00:45:50.000I mean, when someone jumps on your property, you know, what do you do?
00:45:53.000I mean, the jurisdiction that he's in doesn't allow him to do anything.
00:46:17.000That's why he's able to walk through the halls and go in the elevator, because it's a community-owned thing.
00:46:21.000Now, you come out to West Virginia, where we got 50 acres of our property wrapped in a big ol' fence that says, do not enter, we will defend ourselves with lethal force.
00:46:39.000He just wants to be like, he shouldn't have come in here, he shouldn't have come in here, and I'm like, to a degree, I would say, yeah, he shouldn't have, but you're in a communal building, he's a prankster, people can just come and go as they please, I agree, it's probably over the top, but shooting someone...
00:46:54.000And this is a way that New Yorkers talk.
00:47:17.000He's been taunting him for like a month and a half and Dave finally, I mean, he went into his office and made a loud noise and smell, I'm sure.
00:47:24.000Uh, no, not that Alex smells bad, but you're letting your smell out, you know, your pheromones, bro.
00:47:28.000Uh, and Dave really took the bait, but him saying that you should have been shot, Alex, is a lot of people are going to hear that.
00:47:35.000And a lot of people are going to think, okay, if a guy comes into my office, maybe I should be shooting them.
00:48:36.000It may be a bit jokerish, but Stein's a smart guy. And he was like, Dave, I was joking,
00:48:41.000like earlier on a week ago, he's like, Dave, I'm joking around. Come on, let's have fun.
00:48:44.000And Dave, but Dave was already too. He was angry at that point. And I haven't seen Dave
00:48:47.000cool down yet. So what was it? Chrissy Mayer said they waltz right in because your receptionist is
00:48:52.000dumb and buzzed them in. Is that what happened? Because if that's what happened, then
00:48:55.000Dave, sorry, you've lost every, like, you know, every argument. Isn't there also a
00:49:00.000difference between if a guy busts in to my home at night or something then yeah I if I can get a gun all
00:49:08.000start blasting away But if a guy comes into my office, well, I'll just take my producer Ben Davies and hold him right in front of me, and so he can take all the bullets or anything.
00:49:17.000When the pandemic was heating up, there was a viral video out of, I think it was Los Angeles County or something, where a guy, a gun shop owner said, stop getting mad at me that I can't sell you guns.
00:50:01.000I talked to a lawyer about it, because someone tried breaking in, and he was like, if someone breaks in your house, and there is any way you can escape, you have to.
00:50:23.000And then I'm just like, and if there are people trapped inside, they're like, well, you know, it's interesting, but depends on what they're going to argue.
00:50:30.000And what I was told is that the prosecutors in Jersey, of course they will argue you did wrong, no matter what you did.
00:53:28.000I just want to say for the record here and it's far more complicated because we could get into details like welfare and welfare incentivizing people to move over.
00:53:36.000We could talk about the weaponization of immigration.
00:53:39.000And I think the Mises caucus, especially under Dave Smith, has been addressing this issue in a very smart and correct way, addressing this immigration issue in a more correct way, saying, hey, as long as we have the welfare state, we shouldn't have open immigration.
00:53:53.000But if you got rid of the welfare state, then borders should be erased or something like that.
00:53:57.000It's a complicated argument and there's many different factors that are multifaceted here.
00:54:01.000To me, anarchism, it's not an all-end solution to everything.
00:54:04.000It's never going to be perfect, but I think as humanity we should always be striving for personal responsibility and for personal freedom and liberty.
00:54:13.000My concern is the Communist Party of China exists.
00:54:17.000They've exerted authoritarian control over their people to the extent where they're welding them into their homes.
00:54:22.000We can be the anarchists of free trade and all that, and when the Chinese Communist Party comes knocking and says, we'd like to purchase some land in free trade, and we say, sounds good to us, then before we know it they own 40% of the farmland on the west coast, and then all of a sudden they're using that against us, cutting off supply lines, we're being attacked from within, which means I'd love for there, with, you look at the United States, and Ron Paul made a great point that I love where he said, in the U.S.
00:54:49.000Go buy land, go set up your little socialist commune.
00:54:52.000Why do you want to force everyone else to do that?
00:54:54.000We set the boundaries, we set the rules, we agree on those rules, and then we can live in peace and harmony.
00:54:59.000We're also discussing these things as though they're opposites, communism and anarchism.
00:55:04.000In fact, they're two sides of the same coin, because they partake of the same false anthropology, which says that the fundamental political institution is the individual, which is not true and has never been true.
00:55:14.000The fundamental political unit is the family, and so people are not born as the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment rationalists would have you believe.
00:55:21.000Individuals with a bunch of rights and entitlements, but primarily, though we do have rights, but we are born not as these atoms floating through space, but into families with duties and obligations and so your love of your state and your love of your country is an extension of that filial piety because you have an obligation to respect your father and mother.
00:55:40.000I think centralization is a big problem throughout human history.
00:55:44.000I think decentralization... Essentially, this is what kind of boils down.
00:55:47.000now but again we're getting into larger ideology.
00:56:10.000And this is where we agree and I think when you look at the political compass the least
00:56:16.000populated portion of it is the center-left liberal.
00:56:20.000It's either far-left, moderate-authoritarian to very authoritarian, and then you have moderate-conservative to, like, libertarian-right, and then you actually, I would argue, have more authoritarian right-wingers than you actually have Center-left liberal libertarian types.
00:56:51.000This is the point, and I'll get into the next story.
00:56:54.000The point is, If you are on the libertarian spectrum of the political compass, you still have a degree of authority that you expect to exist.
00:57:02.000Unless you're all the way on the bottom at anarchy.
00:57:23.000The family unit, I think, is one of the most important units.
00:57:25.000But I think we also have to respect the strongest minority of them all, and that's the individual.
00:57:32.000Uh, and you could still do that while, of course, prioritizing families, communities, and neighborhoods and individuals coming together to work together without any kind of mafioso, central controller, government bureaucrat coming in and getting a cut of the money.
00:58:07.000And so the anarchists say it's the individual and it has to remain that way and the communists
00:58:11.000say it's the individual and that's why we've got to lump them all together.
00:58:15.000But it's the conservatives who are offering the only genuine alternative, which says, no, it's actually not about this individualism.
00:58:21.000It doesn't just come down to the individual.
00:58:23.000It comes down to something that is more institutional and actually fundamental to your humanity, which is family and community and tradition, and not just the use of your individual unfettered reason to come up with some cockamamie idea.
00:58:37.000It's why I think Karl Marx, if he were alive today, would be in the Tea Party or something.
00:58:41.000I absolutely disagree with that in its total essence, and when we look at essentially what is boiling down to what a lot of these larger parties and ideas, especially when it comes to conservatives and what they're doing, they're essentially just kind of the liberals 10 years from now.
00:58:55.000When you look at the policies, when you look at them deciding to use force and government against other individuals to impose their ideas, I think at the end of the day this is the key central role when Anarchists and libertarians don't want a central figure, don't want someone telling them what to do, and I think this notion of back and forth, the government is good, they're going to tell us what to do right, they have the ultimate decision-making and what is good and bad, I think that pendulum, when it swings back and forth between the left and right, is only bringing on more government, more authoritarianism, and I think we need a lot less of that.
00:59:26.000But Luke, do you not see the irony of, you know, lamenting that the wicked conservative authoritarians want to impose their views and use the power of the state on you, when what you are advocating is you're saying, what we need to do, Michael, is we need to get rid of our political order in the United States, we need to get rid of tradition, we need to get rid of borders, we need to get rid of all these things.
00:59:58.000I think they should be prioritized, and I think individuals should treat families in a kind of communistic way, on the individual basis, without any kind of force or government intervening in that.
01:00:06.000This is why I'm a huge proponent of homeschooling.
01:00:08.000This is why I'm a huge proponent of moving away from depending on government for daily life and personal responsibility.
01:00:23.000That's one example that is very hard to deal with.
01:00:25.000You're making this very niche kind of argument, but I could say, what about the government and the FBI raping small children and bringing them to small islands?
01:00:34.000Let's keep the conversation in line and not go that far off.
01:00:38.000What if the government determines that not vaccinating your kids is abuse?
01:00:44.000So the challenges that we have, and that point right there is why I say morality is not uh... logical
01:00:51.000morality is amorphous it's it's analog it's not digital we say something like
01:00:56.000you shouldn't be allowed to abuse your kids if a guy's beating his child we
01:00:59.000should intervene and stop that and then someone else says you're right
01:01:03.000and if you're not giving the kid the appropriate medical treatment for their
01:01:06.000disease that's abuse and then you ask the question which medical treatment
01:01:10.000Are we talking about a vegan mom who's not giving her son any meat because she's determined what's right for her kids, and then we intervene?
01:01:18.000Or are we talking about, say, a gender transition program where the government says it's abuse if you don't give it to them?
01:01:25.000The only, and I agree with that of course, the only point I'm trying to make is that I find libertarianism and anarchism to be extremely authoritarian in as much as they seek to impose a political order on me that I think is absurd and that I don't want.
01:01:39.000I don't want to live in a political order in which I, in a self-government, cannot, through my representatives and through the police force, take a child out of an abusive home.
01:01:48.000A libertarian or an anarchist might prefer that, but that's not what I want, and so I find it very authoritarian But you'd rather have a government and support a government and pay taxes to a government that's running international trafficking organizations.
01:02:42.000Then someone says, oh, but the government, Dr. Fauci says, this vaccine has to be for kids, and the parent won't do it should the government then intervene.
01:02:50.000It's the same law, but interpreted in different scenarios.
01:02:52.000Traditionally, the American response to this is that we have a self-government.
01:02:56.000And to your point, Luke, very often it does not appear that we actually have a self-government, increasingly.
01:03:01.000But notionally, that's the idea, at least.
01:03:03.000And so within this self-government, we have the right, as citizens, to come to answers on these questions and say, you know, the all-soy diet, that is abusive, you're not allowed to do that.
01:03:13.000The vaccine, no, we're not going to make you vaccinate your kids.
01:03:16.000And that's particular, but that does mean that we have the right to impose our views of the world on others.
01:03:21.000That is the premise and prerequisite of self-government.
01:03:24.000If you do not do that, then, well, you'll have to impose some other political order, which will get you right back to the same problem.
01:03:31.000Let me ask you, Luke, if a kid had strep throat, bacterial, And the doctor said, we're gonna... I don't know what the actual treatment is, amoxicillin?
01:04:23.000When I start thinking about how, yes, I want to be much more libertarian, I don't like vaccine mandates, and when we say something like, look, I've had, when I was a kid, you know, strep throat or whatever, and they gave me that pink stuff that tasted really, really great.
01:04:37.000It was like strawberry flavored amoxicillin or something.
01:04:45.000So if I see a parent who's like, I'm gonna rub crystals on my kid, I'm like, well look, I don't like the idea that the government can come in and tell a parent how to raise their kid.
01:04:56.000But there's also Oh man, what do you do?
01:04:59.000We know that antibiotics can cure certain diseases.
01:05:03.000How do we navigate this when Dr. Fauci says, you must do this for your kid, even if it's like, you know, we're in phase three trials and it's only been a couple years.
01:05:12.000At that point, you're like, I object, but at the core, the nuance of the situation is different, but it's the same thing.
01:05:19.000Do I accept the government can intervene when a person defies the science?
01:05:25.000Man, now I'm like, I'm watching a kid die of strep throat when I know he could save his life because I don't want someone to be forced to inject their kid over here.
01:05:33.000Well, there's also, one, there's a difference between amoxicillin and the Fauci Ouchie.
01:05:37.000You know, we have a lot more long-term data on one of those than the other.
01:05:40.000But also, to your point, can the government do this?
01:05:43.000There is an historical matter here, which you've pointed out, Luke, which is that Throughout all of human history, in every single society, in every single place on planet Earth, the government, by which we mean people having power within political communities, do impose those things.
01:06:00.000Every single place, occasionally anarchists will say, you know, in 8th century Iceland or something, but, you know, okay, fine.
01:06:10.000If you look at government interventions, I mean, again, anarchism doesn't have all the solutions, doesn't have all the answers, and I do believe children should always be protected.
01:06:17.000Obviously, that should be a common sense answer.
01:06:29.000You don't think kids should always be protected?
01:06:30.000It depends on the circumstances and situations.
01:06:32.000I don't want to be the central controller deciding a lot of these things.
01:06:35.000A lot of these things will be decided by individuals or communities or families and neighborhoods that will decide for themselves what is right.
01:06:41.000And I believe at the end of the day that is a better thing that will happen rather than a government coming in and taking a kid and putting them into CPS.
01:08:02.000Do you think... Not some emotional argument about kicking a baby.
01:08:07.000If a mother and father publicly announce that their child of 12 wants to be castrated and injected with hormones, should we just say that's your choice as a parent?
01:08:19.000I think that should be pushed back against in many different ways.
01:08:32.000This is where I disagree with a lot of the bigger kind of libertarian and anarchist ideas, especially when they say we've got to sell heroin to kids.
01:08:41.000Obviously, that's something that I stand against and I made clear many times before on this particular show.
01:08:47.000But when it comes to these important decisions at the end of the day, I do believe and I have a lot more faith in a family, in a community, in the neighborhood, and in individuals rather than the big government that we have now that uses our tax dollars in horrible ways and hurts way more people than the larger ideologies of anarchism, which I believe at the end of the day would lead to less harm reduction.
01:09:08.000I just wanted to say that that scenario I gave of the parents are doing it and the government doesn't intervene and the parents don't want it and the government does intervene exemplifies my point about how laws are based on amorphous morals, analog morals, like in which circumstance do we decide the government is or isn't right?
01:09:27.000Well, and also, the interpretation of intervention here is, I think, problematic, because the government, by which, and Luke, you keep conflating these things, where you say, well, no, I don't like the government, I just like community.
01:09:40.000Well, the government is the expression of the political community, especially in a notionally self-governing republic.
01:09:44.000Especially now with what's happening with the elections?
01:09:46.000Especially now with the way that they're running things?
01:09:48.000Well, certain elections are an expression.
01:09:53.000Especially now with how much debt they put us in.
01:09:56.000The national debt is an expression of the political community making choices, absolutely.
01:10:01.000This is how I drift more away from anarchism and libertarianism.
01:10:05.000I recognize sometimes we want the government to intervene and sometimes we don't.
01:10:09.000And there's no way to define it other than a judgment by a trusted person.
01:10:13.000It seems to me the government is always intervening in the sense that we live in a society, we live in a political community.
01:10:21.000In order to live together in a society, we come up with rules and norms and institutions to mediate the people in that society, the families and the But why can't communities do that?
01:10:32.000Why do you need a government to do that?
01:13:13.000This is the point I was making just in the previous segment.
01:13:16.000A society is typically a cohesive one.
01:13:20.000Everybody kind of agrees on the lines you don't cross.
01:13:23.000When someone crosses that line, everyone is aghast, and the cops are like, we're gonna go in and deal with this.
01:13:27.000That meant obscenity laws a hundred years ago.
01:13:30.000That meant someone could go out on the street corner and yell something nasty, and they'd be like, no, no, no, stop this, stop this, and everyone agreed, not good.
01:13:36.000We've now gone so far in the other direction that you actually have people throwing Molotov cocktails, and in these cities, they're like, well, you know, it's their first offense, and look, we're going to lose votes if we actually prosecute these people, so let's let them all out of the prisons.
01:16:23.000So these cops who live in San Francisco, they're resigning, they're moving.
01:16:28.000And then it gets worse and worse and worse, and that is an issue of an individualized society.
01:16:35.000When everyone just says, it's about me and my life, that's what happens.
01:16:39.000When people put responsibility to the community slightly above themselves, you get someone going out being like, I gotta stop this because old man Jenkins down the street needs this Dwayne Reefer's medication.
01:16:50.000I can't let someone do this to the community.
01:16:52.000Let's break this problem down, because I think it's fair to say that George Soros invested a lot when it came to appointing district attorneys and attorney generals all throughout the United States.
01:17:05.000He again bought government to impose his will on what he thought was right, and his will is punishing right-wingers, but letting Antifa go.
01:17:13.000Well, for the most part, it's the non-enforcement.
01:17:17.000George Soros wrote an op-ed about how he wanted DAs who were not going to go after people and were going to give them lighter sentences.
01:17:24.000I'm not advocating for harsh authoritarianism, so I actually think cash bail is a problem, but I don't know if we have the solution other than to expand, build more courts, hire more judges.
01:17:34.000But George Soros basically said, I want people who are in the DA's office who won't prosecute crimes.
01:17:40.000Well, you got it, and now it's getting worse.
01:17:42.000But that's not using the government to do it, that's stripping the government of its ability to stop these people.
01:17:46.000No, no, no, no, no, because when the government sees a right-winger, when the government sees a political crime, when the government sees a way to punish someone for their political ideas, they do it.
01:17:56.000But when it comes to specifically, when it comes to specifically, you made a point I'm gonna address your point, Luke.
01:18:02.000You made one point, let me address it.
01:18:03.000If there's a left-wing and right-wing activist, and they both riot, they should both be arrested.
01:18:08.000What's happened now is, half is being enforced, and politically biased, only one side is being let go.
01:18:14.000This is the government not enforcing half of it.
01:18:18.000And actually, and upscaling against the right.
01:18:22.000And by the way, not to be too harsh, you know, on the libertarian effect on the conservative movement, but a lot of the reason why the libs have become so good, specifically over the last 60 years, at wielding the government in a way that it was not very good actually at before.
01:18:38.000You saw, you know, you saw the beginnings of it with Woodrow Wilson and FDR, but you still had a lot of conservative political power within the government.
01:18:45.000A lot of the reason why we're not good at it anymore is because the libertarians convinced
01:18:49.000the conservatives that wielding political power per se is wrong and immoral.
01:18:54.000And by doing that, we conceded the entire political field and had the libs run all of
01:19:11.000They're implementing the same policies.
01:19:13.000And if there ever is a political party that hasn't been working for the American people
01:19:17.000that actually screwed them over and gave them failed promises, you're right.
01:19:21.000What's your opinion on redefining marriage?
01:19:23.000The Obergefell case, and now the law that was passed yesterday, the quote-unquote Respect for Marriage Act, radically redefines a fundamental political institution.
01:19:30.000I think it's a PR stunt in order to try to galvanize the base.
01:20:05.000And I'll address specifically, pre-marriage, pre-no-fault divorce, was a contract that you could not just break.
01:20:13.000If you entered into a contract with someone, you had a duty and responsibility, and if you wanted to break it, you had to prove to a court that was just reason to do so.
01:20:23.000The reason you had the government involved wasn't because they gave you permission, it was because you were saying to another person, I give my life to you, I expect your life in return.
01:20:32.000And it's a public act, and if that person then decided I'm not going to give you equal, like you're giving me your life, I'm not giving you
01:20:56.000In the 40s, which I think is interesting, the reason why libertarianism is so popular right now is because in the 40s, America became a militant, authoritarian country.
01:21:04.000It used to be a liberal republic, and then in 1949, when they created the liberal economic order, they became a military government.
01:21:36.000Left and right, left and right, back and forth, more government, more government, more government.
01:21:39.000Listen, I grew up in Poland when there was still communism there, right?
01:21:42.000The Polish people are adverse to communists and to fascists, to extreme left and extreme right.
01:21:47.000This is essentially the larger ideas that are quantified in anarchism, in my opinion, because they push back a lot of this nonsense that feeds each other and builds on top of each other.
01:21:55.000And in Poland specifically, when it came to things like marriage, right?
01:21:58.000If someone would be divorced, if someone would not take care of their child after birthing a child, they would be looked upon as a scumbag.
01:22:06.000There would be social pressures on that individual for being Poland's a very Catholic country.
01:22:11.000Well, during communism, and during when the Soviet Union had control of Poland, it wasn't mainly the state that was enforcing a lot of these morals, it was the church that had a larger impact on that.
01:22:24.000Well, the church was suppressing communism.
01:22:26.000And the church was fighting the state.
01:22:28.000But my point here is, when I hear from our libertarian friends that the conservatives are actually the ones who were the Democrats from ten years ago, Is it not true?
01:22:53.000Those are issues that I had very strong stances against.
01:22:56.000I think you unwittingly are pushing those things, but I don't think you intend to push those things.
01:23:00.000I disagree, because I addressed those problems.
01:23:02.000Specifically, what was the three that you brought up?
01:23:05.000The reason I bring it up is, if you ask Real conservatives, the real traddies around today, what's your view on marriage?
01:23:11.000They're going to give you the view of marriage that was held from the beginning of human history until 2015.
01:23:15.000If you ask their views on drug laws, or on punishing criminals, or on immigration enforcement, or any of these things, you're going to get the conservative point of view.
01:23:24.000And it's going to be the libertarians and the liberals who agree on all of those issues in a very, very radical way.
01:23:37.000But the end result is the same, is what I'm saying.
01:23:41.000Not when the liberals use big government in order to impose their will on people, right?
01:23:44.000But when the libertarians use this fantastical utopian aversion to government to break down the social order and to break everyone down into individuals who are much more easily collectivized, which is what has happened.
01:23:57.000You said brilliant, I don't know where you got this idea, that the base unit of society is a duality.
01:24:04.000It's a communication between two or more people, a family unit.
01:24:08.000One individual born in the woods with no humans is not a human.
01:24:31.000It keeps you sane, it keeps you humble.
01:24:33.000It's the man and the woman. I thought that was really funny, the Matrix. You've seen the
01:24:36.000fourth Matrix one they made? I didn't know they went up to four. I think
01:24:39.000I've only seen through three. I think it's funny, because a lot of people
01:24:42.000said it was going to be like Woke or whatever, but the plot of the Matrix is literally that you
01:24:47.000need a matriarch and a patriarch together to stabilize reality.
01:24:50.000And in a libertarian society, not only will two people keep each other sane and rational, but in a totalitarian society, two people will keep each other from falling victim to the state.
01:25:00.000We have to move on to at least one more story because there's no way I can let this one go.
01:25:03.000So I got a hard segue to Rolling Stone.
01:25:06.000Trump's major announcement was a scammy superhero-themed NFT collection.
01:25:11.000For $99, you can now own a digitally generated image of the former president cosplaying as an astronaut, fighter pilot, sheriff, or red carpet celebrity.
01:25:24.000He goes, hopefully, I'm your favorite president, greater than Lincoln, greater than Washington, and if you buy an NFT, you enter into a sweepstakes for a chance to win a bunch of great prizes like dinner with me, I don't know if it's a great prize, but maybe.
01:26:21.000But the thing that his announcement did demonstrate is something that I have said to Trump's critics for years, which is they say, he's an egomaniac narcissist.
01:26:30.000And I say, yeah, you know, he has his name on buildings.
01:27:25.000Hello everyone, this is Donald Trump, hopefully your favorite president of all time, better than Lincoln, better than Washington, with an important announcement to make.
01:27:34.000I'm doing my first official Donald J. Trump NFT collection right here and right now.
01:27:40.000They're called Trump Digital Trading Cards.
01:27:43.000These cards feature some of the really incredible artwork pertaining to my life and my career.
01:29:25.000Quote, a sinister group of deep state bureaucrats, Silicon Valley tyrants and activists and depraved corporate news media have been conspiring to manipulate and silence the American people.
01:29:35.000This was a very somber and serious statement that came out like right around the time as this NFT announcement.
01:29:42.000This should have been the major announcement.
01:29:55.000But the point is, Donald Trump has an announcement to make.
01:29:58.000And at the very least, it would have been of political nature, not selling NFTs.
01:30:02.000You know, I'm all for the Fun, frivolity, silliness.
01:30:06.000I mean, I like that, but it has to, that has to be the cherry on top of the sundae of really doing something and talking about issues that people care about.
01:30:15.000I mean, to your point, Luke, he's not in office right now, so he can't really do anything.
01:30:18.000And he's not even on Twitter, so he can't talk that much.
01:30:20.000But I just, I look and I think, in Trump 2015, When also he was just talking, right, he was just a candidate.
01:30:26.000But Trump 2015, he comes down that escalator, he says what no other Republican will say, which is that this immigration thing is horrible and they're sending rapists and drug dealers across and we gotta do something.
01:30:36.000When he said, you remember Hillary Clinton's slogan was, I'm with her.
01:31:03.000He, in the statement, he said, within hours of my inauguration, I will sign an executive order banning any federal department or agency from colluding with any organization, business, or person to censor, limit, categorize, or impede the lawful speech of American citizens.
01:31:16.000I will then ban federal money from being used to label domestic speech mis- or disinformation.
01:31:21.000I'll begin the process of identifying and firing every federal bureaucrat who is engaged in domestic censorship, directly or indirectly, etc., etc.
01:31:30.000It's playing to what's going on with Elon and Twitter.
01:31:33.000If this was his major announcement it would have played very well.
01:31:35.000If he came out and said what we have recently discovered in several lawsuits as well as leaked information from big social networks that the government had been colluding, As president, I will end this.
01:31:47.000People would be like, wow, you know what?
01:31:49.000Elon Musk Twitter files just came out.
01:31:51.000Then Donald Trump says, I'm paying attention.
01:31:54.000I know what is worrying you and I will address it.
01:33:35.000100 million votes, landslide- We're gonna build a space elevator, we're gonna lead the world in space exploration, like we need him telling us what he wants to create for the species if he has any chance of winning.
01:35:12.000But banning the woke stuff from government contracting, I'm like, not perfect, the bump stock ban was very bad, his statements on it were very bad, but I said the peace in the Middle East stuff that he's working on, not perfect, I get it, I will take it, especially over Joe Biden, so I voted for him.
01:35:25.000Now, all he's doing is talking about 2020, he's tweeting about it, he's truthing about it nonstop, selling NFTs, and we get only tiny morsels of some kind of policy position, so I'm just like, dude, You had me with the 2020 campaign.
01:35:49.000Well, this is, you know, Ron DeSantis is what I know that some people don't like Ron DeSantis, or they used to like Ron DeSantis, but now they don't like Ron DeSantis because Trump is running.
01:35:58.000And whatever you think about the guy, He is one of the most masterful politicians of our lifetime, and he has found this one issue in particular where he can outflank Trump to the right, and that's on the vaccines.
01:36:09.000And choosing to impanel that grand jury, and choosing to investigate the mRNA vax, I mean, it was an absolute stroke of genius, and I don't know how Trump answers that.
01:37:26.000Share the show with your friends and become a member over at TimCast.com, because we're going to have, I can only imagine, it's going to be a hilarious big debate, members-only segment, where we'll get back into all of the state versus liberty versus conservatism stuff.
01:37:58.000It's a fake video of what is essentially a plan for the Matrix, but the Matrix in, you know, people being forced to make genetically engineered babies.
01:38:07.000It was like a warehouse of, like, incubators, basically.
01:38:43.000You know, if there's a circumstance where I know definitively that someone is an active threat, then I believe the use of force, which ultimately- Including capital punishment.
01:38:54.000Uh, capital punishment is still hard for me, but I suppose there is a circumstance where if you could, if you could, if it was proven to me definitively as a, like, absolute, this person will be a threat to society unless he is, he is dead, then I would be, okay, I get it.
01:39:10.000So you, you, but you, you think that the death penalty is only justified to protect the society?
01:39:15.000To stop someone from causing harm and destroying.
01:39:19.000But you don't think it would be justified for retribution?
01:39:29.000I think that if you subdue the threat, the only real question beyond that point is, should we extend our labor and resources to providing for someone who has effectively forfeited their right to society?
01:39:56.000So, ultimately, in a realistic scenario, my issue with the death penalty is there's no government authority that I will trust that someone deserves to die.
01:40:06.000They're gonna show you video of someone getting killed, and they'll be like, you saw it, see?
01:40:09.000I guess the reason I keep trying to hone in on this is, if you oppose the death penalty because you don't trust the government, that's one thing.
01:40:17.000But if you oppose the death penalty even if you knew the guy did it, you know, for the purposes of retribution, that's different.
01:40:22.000Because there are three purposes of criminal justice.
01:40:26.000Deterrence, rehabilitation, and retribution.
01:40:30.000And we only ever talk about those first two now.
01:40:32.000And so it's deterrence, well, you know, you've got, well, and what's funny is the opponents of the death penalty always downplay deterrence.
01:40:38.000They say it doesn't actually deter people, which is controversial, but also we don't really enforce the death penalty anymore, so it's like, of course it's not deterring people, we don't actually enforce it.
01:40:48.000But then rehabilitation is one everyone focuses on.
01:40:51.000They say that the only reason to punish people is to rehabilitate them, bring them back into society.
01:40:56.000Obviously, the death penalty doesn't do that, though I think it actually does.
01:40:59.000I think Dr. Johnson is right when he says, depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he's to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.
01:41:05.000I think it could rehabilitate a man a lot better than maybe 30 years in prison.
01:41:09.000But furthermore, The primary purpose of the criminal justice system, up to and including capital punishment, but the whole thing, it seems to me, is retribution.
01:41:19.000It's to punish people for committing crimes.
01:41:23.000My philosophy is rehabilitation should be number one.
01:41:27.000But if we say that the primary purpose of jails is rehabilitation, then we could all be sent to jails today.
01:41:35.000I mean, we could all use a little bit of rehabilitation.
01:41:37.000The reason we're not is because we didn't commit any crimes.
01:41:40.000No, but of course, like, I don't mean that.
01:41:41.000I'm saying if someone breaks the law, we want to say, okay, we want to eliminate the threat you pose to society and work towards no longer having you be a threat to society.
01:41:50.000But you don't, yeah, you don't, you don't think, though, that, though deterrence and rehabilitation are good secondary effects of punishment, Do you not think that, given... I think we would all agree, the purpose of the jails and the prisons is to punish people for committing crimes.
01:42:07.000So the purpose is retribution, even if you think, well I don't really care that much.
01:42:11.000Well no, I think it is, but I disagree with that.
01:42:50.000We agree that you should rehabilitate criminals when you can, and once they've paid their debt to society, they get out, and hopefully we can reintegrate them into society.
01:42:57.000I just... It's retributions and emotional satisfaction that we pay money for.
01:43:02.000I mean, I think it's giving people what they deserve.
01:43:04.000And so with retribution, you know, a lot of people say that this is an attack on human dignity, especially when it comes to capital punishment.
01:43:11.000They say, we believe in human dignity and so therefore we can't have it.
01:43:14.000But, you know, what it comes from is the book of Genesis.
01:43:16.000Whosoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed, because man is made in the image and likeness of God.
01:43:22.000So it's actually because we take human dignity seriously, that's why we believe that if you harm people, and especially if you kill people, Then we're going to kill you right back.
01:43:31.000Do you think that sadism has a place in Christianity?
01:44:15.000I think what's cringe about it is that Trump said, we need a superhero, and I've got a major announcement, but it was just him selling a product.
01:44:50.000So we had this two and a half hour conversation and it veered off at one point Because, you know, when she was talking about abortion, she even kind of admitted by the end.
01:45:00.000She said, yeah, okay, we should ban late-term abortion.
01:45:02.000She seemed to come over more to the pro-life side than she already was.
01:45:05.000But what held her up was the trans thing.
01:45:08.000Because she said, Michael, when we're talking about pregnant people, I said, you mean mothers?
01:45:14.000She goes, well, if you want to say that, they're not all mothers.
01:45:17.000I said, well, which ones aren't mothers?
01:48:03.000That's why you don't want one person in charge of who gets to stay and who has to go, because if they get emotionally charged up, they're not making decisions clearly.
01:48:13.000I have not seen what they got banned for, Elon, so if I'm out of line, I'm out of line, but come on, brother.
01:48:17.000If Elon Musk nukes Twitter and just shuts the whole thing down, I am going to spend, I am going to order every pizza that Papa John's has, we are going to have a big party, I'm getting lights set up, and we are going to celebrate.
01:48:36.000And if it finally ended, I would have a, it would be like, yeah, I get it, I like the instant news feed, but it would just be so epically hilarious.
01:50:00.000And the vitriolic comments are getting removed.
01:50:02.000Yeah, it's just cultivating social space.
01:50:06.000I keep pushing back on you, Luke, because I'm the traddy here, but I recognize that there is a risk to all of these things, and that's why we need to take care and, I think, deal with some complexity and nuance in our political issues.
01:50:22.000I could be wrong about Baker, Alaska, by the way.
01:50:31.000But if you're going to be bowing down to the powers that are in charge right now, you're bowing down to some really bad people making some really bad decisions.
01:50:38.000Elon Musk, you might agree with his decision.
01:50:41.000And I think there's a slippery slope, especially when you start censoring people.
01:50:45.000I agree, but, you know, I gotta, uh, if, oh, I see what it, Olbermann tweeted, someone said this in chat, Olbermann tweeted, mastered an account that was tracking Elon's plane.
01:51:26.000I think the billionaire genius gets the meme, generally speaking.
01:51:30.000He has said that he wants to piss off the far left and the far right, and he wants there to be a space.
01:51:35.000So if I make a point, and he's like, yeah, fair point, you know, people will blindly agree, and he puts fire emojis, or maybe he's dumb, whatever you want to think.
01:51:52.000But ultimately they're posting his location.
01:51:54.000Let's also not forget, I mean I know that sometimes my views are viewed as slightly to the right of Genghis Khan or something, moderation is a virtue.
01:52:02.000I'm not saying that we need to squish and find some middle ground with demons, you know.
01:52:06.000Like Balenciaga's satanic pedos, but like, you know, moderation, actually being a temperate, moderate person, that is a virtue.
01:52:46.000I think there should be some reasonable expect, like, you better prove that this person was really a threat to you.
01:52:51.000You can't just, you know, I was talking to a lawyer about West Virginia, or, you know, someone in law enforcement, and they were like, look, someone walks on your property, you can't shoot them.
01:53:00.000Someone walks on your property carrying a weapon, now they're in trouble.
01:53:03.000Even, because it's an open, it's a constitutional carry state, but you trespass, and you're armed, and someone fires on you, you're gonna have a very hard time defending yourself, and if you die.
01:53:15.000They're walking around with a stick in their hand.
01:53:17.000See, this is the point of judges and juries.
01:53:19.000Because the law can say, don't carry a weapon, and someone could carry a handful of nails and be running, and you go, ah, they're coming at me, and you shoot them, and then it turns out he was running to his friend whose car broke and he had the nails he was asking for, or something like that.
01:53:33.000And you know, on this very point, the wonderful Harvard Law Professor Adrian Vermeule has done a lot.
01:53:38.000He's trying to revive the classical law tradition, and he distinguishes between two types of law.
01:53:44.000You know, in English we don't really distinguish between these things, but there's law like lex, you know, law written down in statutes and constitutions, and there's law as in use, as in the background principles and context in which the written positive law exists.
01:54:00.000That's very important to know that distinction.
01:54:51.000I think I want to make sure that you don't overcompensate and had so just push back so hard against authoritarianism that you end up becoming a radical libertarian.
01:55:00.000Let me just say I'm actually glad that Luke is pushing so hard because we don't have that degree of anarchy and so if you have someone who's like no government you end up with a little bit.
01:55:11.000But when you have a pendulum swinging, if you push back against the pendulum really hard, you find it goes to the extreme.
01:55:16.000You want to be friction in the system that slows the pendulum down.
01:55:19.000I don't know what you're talking about here.
01:55:20.000I made this statement before, clearly.
01:55:22.000If you believe in a parks department, you're a communist.
01:56:34.000Like, I'm on the libertarian spectrum, but there's degrees of authority you're willing to entertain.
01:56:39.000And the point that I was making with why we don't tolerate, we don't tolerate advocacy for, like you mentioned, child porn.
01:56:46.000We don't go out and arrest someone for arguing for it, though.
01:56:48.000We just don't tolerate them in our circles, culturally.
01:56:51.000And it's because, I, I, when the Florida bill came out about parental rights in education, And the parent's right to decide if their kid does or doesn't get medical treatment.
01:59:11.000We have to be good stewards of the Earth.
01:59:14.000That's a reason, but I don't think that's the ultimate purpose of humanity.
01:59:17.000Well, to live for the, like, his point, I thought it was a good point, but it was basically like, if there were no humans, would anything related to humans matter?
01:59:40.000But we don't only serve humanity, I guess is my point.
01:59:44.000It seems to me the purpose of life is to know God and to serve him on earth and to enjoy him forever in heaven.
01:59:48.000And that's the sort of traditional view of things.
01:59:50.000And for those who are agnostic or atheist, you might be sort of laughing at me right now.
01:59:54.000But at the very least, let me use kind of new-agey language.
01:59:58.000You know, the purpose of life, man, is to find something outside of yourself and our merely human endeavors and to find something greater and a higher power and, you know, and whatever, bro, or I don't know.
02:00:12.000But it's like, I think most people would agree with that.
02:00:14.000We're not merely serving our own interests.
02:00:16.000But don't you see within the last few decades, That's how a lot of people have been replacing God and using the state as their own religion, as their own kind of cult.
02:00:23.000I do believe in the power of religion, but when the government intervenes in so much in our lives, people are literally seeing government as their entity, as their god, as what they should worship, of what they should follow.
02:00:34.000But all human conflict ultimately is theological, so all political debates are religious as well.
02:00:39.000Some conflicts are just about who's got the water.
02:00:43.000We're about to go to members only, so let me read one more really good super chat.
02:00:47.000Carlo Magno says, Tim, I don't believe in capital punishment unless you trespass in my property pool.
02:00:54.000Well, it's a funny super chat, but my point is, I don't believe in killing another person unless they're an immediate threat.
02:01:02.000The challenge, however, is if they're someone who is clearly a threat to society, and you've subdued them by putting them in a small concrete box, snuffing out their life is a challenge for me morally.
02:01:33.000I would actually argue Locking someone in a box, if someone's truly a threat to others, so you decide to lock them up and control every moment of their life and limit their ability to live for 30 years, could actually be worse than just killing them.
02:01:49.000But I just, I, you know, sometimes I don't have logical answers for things.
02:01:53.000Like when I was talking with Glenn Beck about abortion, I was like, the issue ultimately comes down to, there's a point where I just don't know.
02:02:02.000I just don't have it in me to advocate for killing another person that has been locked in a box.
02:03:17.000So thank you for making Speechless the number one.
02:03:19.000You know, like, because people would super chat and say, man, that story's really crazy, Tim.
02:03:23.000Hearing about this family has left me speechless, just like Michael is.
02:03:26.000And after a couple times, I'd be like, okay, okay.
02:03:30.000And then because, you know, here's what I do when I read super chats.
02:03:33.000I actually read them before I speak the words.
02:03:37.000So I'm reading two words ahead of what I'm saying, but I can't read the whole sentence before I start reading, otherwise the show would lag.
02:03:44.000So I read, man that story's really crazy, then I say it, and then I see the speeches and I go...