Action4Canada - How To Properly Handle Law Enforcement with Vincent Gircys, Retired OPP, February 2021

00:00:00.000 video and audio would be the best. So just let them know that when they do speak to you that

00:00:18.200 you have every intention to exercise your charter rights. Just say, you know, I'm exercising my

00:00:24.620 rights. That's all you have to say. You don't have to get into the whole definition of the

00:00:28.780 paragraph that's written here. And tell them who you are up front. My name is so-and-so. I'm the

00:00:35.020 owner of this establishment. Just let them know that they're dealing with the owner. Tell them

00:00:38.540 right up front what your name is. You have nothing to hide there. You do have a right to remain silent.

00:00:43.380 So at any point earlier on in the game when you're talking to somebody who comes in who has some

00:00:49.700 legal authority, ask them fairly soon in the game, am I under arrest or is there a chance that I'm

00:00:57.040 going to be arrested for something? And I would tell you right now, based on opening your business,

00:01:01.320 your chance of being arrested is minuscule. Unless you've committed some criminal violation,

00:01:07.900 they're not there to arrest you. They're there to probably have a look at what you're doing.

00:01:12.100 And possibly if you're violating some provincial law, they're going to write you up a ticket.

00:01:16.840 So they're not, for the most part, like I said, unless it's a criminal thing they're there for and

00:01:21.480 you don't really know why they're there, most likely it's not going to be for an arrest.

00:01:26.160 But ask them that question. Because if an officer is there to arrest you and they say that it's

00:01:33.400 possible, then at that point, if they're indicating an arrest is imminent, then you should not say

00:01:39.940 anything and they should be providing you with your rights. But again, that is going to be a very,

00:01:44.860 very rare situation. You're not, these situations that we're dealing with, these provincial

00:01:49.220 issues, these legal mandates, these result in provincial fines. So don't answer any questions

00:01:58.420 they put to you and do it politely and just say, listen, I'm not being combative. I really

00:02:03.100 don't feel it's necessary that I have to answer any of your questions. You can be helpful without

00:02:08.220 verbally answering any questions. And you can ask them for their identification. And you can say it

00:02:15.420 verbally, just repeat whatever they say in a clear voice. If you know that you have video or audio

00:02:21.200 that's running, then you don't need to write it down. But if you don't have video and audio running,

00:02:26.360 make sure you have a pen and a piece of paper. And as soon as they tell you their name and their badge

00:02:30.420 number, write it down. That's your opportunity to write it down. So let's go to the next slide.

00:02:35.920 Okay. So again, you're not required to surrender any documentation. If they say, I want to see your

00:02:44.140 driver's license, you don't have to pull out a document. You do if you're driving a motor vehicle

00:02:49.240 and driving a motor vehicle is not a right, it's a privilege. And with that privilege comes having to

00:02:54.940 surrender certain documents. But if you're in your business, you don't have to surrender those

00:02:59.860 documents, but you will have to, under certain legal conditions, provide your name. So provide your

00:03:05.540 name to the officer if you're asked. And that's just a polite thing to do. But you don't need to

00:03:10.360 dig into your pocket. They're going to probably ask you for your driver's license or some form of

00:03:15.300 proof of your identification. You're not required to do that. You're required to, if they're there for

00:03:20.840 a legal reason, just provide your name. So if you ask them if you're being detained or under arrest,

00:03:28.400 I already went through that. And also state to the officer that you wish to have no further

00:03:36.160 communications, if things start to go bad. And as soon as they indicate that they're going to be

00:03:42.400 laying charges, then just make it clear that you don't want to have any further conversation.

00:03:46.140 Okay, off to the next slide. Okay. So if the officer persists, you can ask them to leave the property.

00:04:06.460 And if they don't comply, you can tell them they are subject to a trespassing charge. Good luck with

00:04:12.780 laying that charge. I don't think that's going to happen. But again, if you need to step away

00:04:17.820 from the conversation, and stand your ground. So we can go to the next slide. And I'll say that if an

00:04:25.820 officer is preparing a charge, and he's going to give it to you, he or she is going to provide you

00:04:30.300 with a charge, maintain composure and be respectful. And always be respectful and be the better person if

00:04:38.620 things start to go sour, because you can never go wrong, or dig a deeper hole, or get into a further

00:04:46.140 problem by by being polite and being considerate and being a respectful person. Worst thing you could

00:04:53.100 do is lose your cool. Because when you lose your cool, you become emotional. When you're emotional,

00:04:57.980 you don't think straight. And you can do something that you're really going to regret. And that being,

00:05:03.740 you're going to give the officer an opportunity to possibly lay some criminal charges against you,

00:05:09.180 if you lose your cool. So stay composed. And if you think you're going to lose your cool,

00:05:13.900 turn the whole conversation over to somebody else, that you can designate that to to say,

00:05:18.620 listen, I really can't talk right now. I'm too upset. Here, you deal with my, my number two person

00:05:24.860 or whatever, and put it off to somebody else. Most problems and dispute that lead to compounding

00:05:31.260 problems are going to happen because people lose their cool. So don't leave don't lose their cool.

00:05:36.460 But saying that on the other side, police officers don't like to be questioned, they don't like to

00:05:43.260 have their authority question. And, but part of what they do need to understand and they they need to

00:05:49.900 do and that's why they get paid the big bucks, is they need to maintain composure. If you see an officer

00:05:56.140 lose their cool, that's not a good thing. That's a very, very unprofessional thing. And I would

00:06:01.740 seriously question any officer that loses their cool in the line of duty when interacting with

00:06:07.180 somebody. We need to develop, police need to develop a thick skin and be prepared for that. Again,

00:06:11.900 that's why they get paid the big bucks. So always be respectful when you receive your ticket. And when you

00:06:17.740 do get a ticket, don't throw it in the garbage. Don't throw it on the floor. Don't roll it up in a

00:06:24.940 ball and throw it away and say it's just a useless piece of paper. Once you're handed that, you are

00:06:31.180 responsible to deal with that. And I have every belief that taking that ticket before the courts

00:06:40.380 and dealing with it will result in a favorable outcome for you. And I'll get into that in a few

00:06:47.340 minutes, but don't throw it away. Because once it's issued, the ball is in your park to deal with it.

00:06:53.340 So just check off the section on the back of the ticket that indicates you wish to dispute it

00:06:59.340 and deal with it and make copies of it, create a folder. So while this is all happening, once you're

00:07:06.140 done your interactions with the officer, it's really important that you make notes. Police officers make

00:07:13.660 notes. And you're as an involved person in this, who is probably going to end up wanting to say things

00:07:21.820 at court, somewhere down the road, way down the road, you may want to be, you want to make reference

00:07:29.340 to the notes that you made. So if you make notes immediately following the incident dealing with the

00:07:37.580 officer, if you make notes and review, if you can review any audio recording and video prior to making

00:07:44.460 your notes, just to refresh your memory on exactly what it was that happened. When you make those

00:07:49.740 notes, you will be allowed to use those notes in the future in defending yourself. And there's nothing

00:07:55.980 wrong with that. Everybody does that. So as long as you've done it immediately following the issue.

00:08:01.980 And then when you're done, sign them, sign the notes, sign every page of the of the notes that you make.

00:08:07.740 And those are yours, put them in a file, make sure you don't lose them and refer to them in the future.

00:08:13.740 If somebody said something, whoever was saying something, make note on your notes that officer

00:08:19.740 so and so made this comment and another officer made that comment. So it's very important to remember

00:08:24.700 what was said and who said it. Also, just make sure you you keep a file somewhere and don't lose it.

00:08:32.940 And you may have to actually develop several files because this probably isn't going to be a one ticket

00:08:38.060 thing for you is probably going to become over the period of time, it's going to become multiple

00:08:42.940 tickets. And I'm familiar with certain people who have, you know, stacks of tickets. And quite frankly,

00:08:50.860 I don't I don't think they're at all worth the paper that they're written on. So let's go to the next page.

00:08:59.660 Next slide.

00:09:03.260 Okay, so when it comes to court time, right now courts are closed. So any court dealings that

00:09:08.140 you're going to have are going to be through a zoom court or an online process. And the experiences in

00:09:14.380 BC, Alberta and Ontario right now is that there doesn't seem to be any trial tickets that are

00:09:20.860 any convictions that are happening. Quite frankly, from all the conversations I've had,

00:09:25.340 it appears that either they can't find any registration of the ticket or charge. So there's no charge

00:09:32.620 before the court, surprisingly. Or there are many cases of let's make a deal. You know, it's a $2,000 fine,

00:09:43.660 but today we're going to offer you this deal of $300 and we'll just call it a day. So if it was me,

00:09:52.940 I wouldn't accept the $300 deal. I would accept a $0 make this gone deal. And then we'll probably be

00:10:01.660 talking about things that you can do to retaliate against these nonsense charges. But it's just

00:10:08.460 something you should consider. However, I personally would not accept any deal. Your rights

00:10:15.820 have been violated. We're talking about the store related issues of anything in any charge dealing

00:10:26.140 with a violation of your rights. It's going to go out the window. So I would not be dealing anything.

00:10:33.580 Now, another threat that the courts make to you is, well, if you want a trial, if you're not going to

00:10:38.860 deal today, we're going to have to put this over to trial. And you're not going to get to this for at

00:10:44.620 least 18 months because our courts are booked solid. Well, there's something called the ask off

00:10:50.220 decision. And it was decided upon by the Supreme Court is just what is a reasonable delay in time

00:10:58.380 in dealing with your charge. And the courts ruled somewhere between eight to 10 months,

00:11:03.980 depending on a lot of things, somewhere between eight to 10 months

00:11:09.020 was the maximum acceptable limit for your having your trial. So if the courts are going to say,

00:11:17.020 well, it's going to be 18 months before we get to deal with your case, you'll really have no say in

00:11:21.660 that. And there's nothing you can do about it. Just voice your objection to that and say, well,

00:11:26.860 I really don't want to wait 18 months. But if that's what it's going to take, that's not from my doing.

00:11:31.740 That's the courts doing. And I'm willing to wait 18 months. Actually, don't say that. Sorry,

00:11:37.180 you're not willing to wait 18 months. You're saying, I don't want to wait 18 months. But if

00:11:41.500 you're making me wait that unnecessary delay, I guess I will. So we're just going to have to wait,

00:11:48.700 because that becomes another constitutional argument. The argument that constitutionally,

00:11:55.100 you should have your trial within 10 months, eight to 10 months. So, you know, just more advantageous

00:12:01.820 to your fines. And I suspect that the prosecutors are probably looking to do this because then

00:12:11.020 they'll just be able to throw your case out the window and say, well, we threw it out the window

00:12:14.620 because of the delay issue, not because we were doing anything wrong and laying the charges,

00:12:19.580 but because of the delay, we'll let this one go. They don't want to deal with these cases. These are all

00:12:25.020 unconstitutional. You know, they're there, as it says here, that the fines are deterrent purposes

00:12:30.380 designed to further install and still fear. So if you're arrested, and I suspect that there is a

00:12:37.820 extreme high unlikelihood of any arrest, because we're not dealing with the arrest offenses,

00:12:43.980 unless you lose your cool, or there are other issues that come into play. But if there's ever

00:12:49.660 something that is going to deal with an arrest, and something goes bad, just remember that you do have

00:12:54.860 access to a lawyer of your choice. That is, if you provide the phone number and say, this is the

00:13:00.140 lawyer I want to talk to, here's his number, please call him for me. Otherwise, you'll be given access

00:13:06.380 to a free legal aid lawyer as soon as possible, right after your arrest. So when you're provided

00:13:12.780 access to a lawyer, you also have to be given a private location that allows you to have conversation

00:13:22.380 with your lawyer in a confidential manner. And then following that conversation with your lawyer,

00:13:29.340 when you're going to go back into the police, again, don't say anything if you're ever taken into

00:13:35.820 police custody. It's never advisable to speak to any issues when you're in custody, just maintain your

00:13:42.300 silence is always the way to go. Next page. Next slide. Okay, so under basic human rights,

00:13:55.260 the issue that is not covered on the slide, and something I'd like to talk about,

00:14:00.780 is the multiple layers of protection that we have. Many people think that our charter rights are gone out

00:14:07.820 the window, and we don't have any rights anymore, based on what you're seeing. And it certainly

00:14:12.460 appears that way, but I'm going to tell you that's not true. We still have our rights. Currently,

00:14:20.540 we still have our rights, and I'm going to take you through that a little bit. Since World War II,

00:14:26.540 the war was over in 1945, but there was a final battle, and that final battle took place in 1946,

00:14:33.980 and it was known as the Nuremberg Trials. And at the Nuremberg Trials, what was repeated and echoed over

00:14:41.580 and over again was, never again, never again would these atrocities be allowed to happen. And so as a result

00:14:54.620 of the never again, in 1948, the United Nations had come up with a universal declaration of human rights.

00:15:06.300 The universal declaration of human rights. So if you're looking at this picture, and I hope you can

00:15:11.980 all see it, take a look at all these shields. If you see these shields, imagine them all stacked one in

00:15:21.020 front of another. And these are the shields that we have as citizens in this country to protect us

00:15:27.660 from this BS that's happening right now. And the first shield I'm going to say, and there are more,

00:15:33.420 there are many more shields, but I'm only going through a few. The first would be that universal

00:15:38.460 declaration of human rights in 1948. The next shield would be the Canadian Bill of Rights in 1960.

00:15:45.580 And then comes the Canadian Charter of Rights in 1982. Three layers of steel to protect our citizens'

00:15:54.140 human rights. After that comes the Federal Emergency Measures Act, another defensive shield. In Ontario,

00:16:05.340 the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act of 2006, another shield, another Spartan shield.

00:16:14.060 The Police Services Act of Ontario, another defensive shield. And you know what all of these acts that

00:16:20.860 I'm telling you say? They all say the same thing. They all say pursuant to the Canadian Charter of Rights.

00:16:29.020 It's all about the Charter of Rights, the Universal Declaration of Rights, the Bill of Rights. There's

00:16:34.620 layer upon layer, like an onion, there's layer upon layer of rights and protections offered to you.

00:16:41.660 And the last one that I like to refer to is the police officer's oath. And before they hand a police

00:16:49.820 officer a badge, they make that officer take an oath. And usually, still to this day, the officers take

00:16:59.660 the oath by putting their hands on a Bible, a Bible that is issued to them by the department. And they make

00:17:06.380 an oath. And in Ontario, of course, the oath includes the promise to protect the Constitution of Canada,

00:17:12.700 of which the Canadian Charter of Rights is a part of. So how in the hell did we get to this point with

00:17:21.580 all those multiple layers of shielding and rights? How did we get to this point where your stores are

00:17:27.420 closed? You can't be together with your family. And it seems like most of our rights have been taken

00:17:33.580 away from us. Remember, all of these rights, they're all words on paper until strong men and women

00:17:41.580 put into action in a lawful method.

00:17:44.300 I'm sometimes at a loss to believe myself that we're in this situation. And I've always identified

00:17:55.660 police as the guardians of the fabric of our society. And quite frankly, I'm very let down at

00:18:02.860 this point. And I see a lot of subversion that has taken place within our society to get us to this

00:18:08.620 point. Though the rights that I have just outlined, they are not gone, they are still there, but they

00:18:14.620 are being subverted. And I have a lot of faith in our judicial system, that when these charges, when

00:18:22.700 these useless pieces of paper get to the courts, that they will not only be dealt with accordingly as

00:18:29.740 they should, but there will be some recourse for everybody who had to endure this nonsense.

00:18:38.940 So there is no legal authority to close your business, your church, or to violate your rights,

00:18:45.900 period. And tickets can legally, but not lawfully be issued. And I'm going to explain that.

00:18:53.100 So I suggest everyone fight every charge. Okay, if we can go to the last slide.

00:18:59.660 Okay. So I just want to touch on the difference between legal and lawful. And this is something

00:19:09.180 that really bothers me. And I find it very interesting to see how we kind of got into this

00:19:15.980 mess. So I'll just do a little bit of explanation. Some people think that these mandates that are coming

00:19:23.020 out by the provinces for lockdowns and the COVID laws, we'll call them, that they're illegal.

00:19:30.300 They are not illegal. And I have no idea how, but it is possible for provincial governments

00:19:36.220 to actually create laws that are in conflict with all of our charter rights. So these mandates that have

00:19:44.460 come out are legal, but I don't believe they're lawful. And I'll tell you what the difference is.

00:19:50.620 And it's the same as the difference between obedience and morality. Legal on the left,

00:19:57.340 they want you to comply and be obedient and morality on the right. So the term lawful is legal with a

00:20:06.940 ethical and moral value associated to it. So legal would be the substance of the law, while lawful

00:20:14.940 is the form of the law, the shape of the law and the character of the law. Legal could be seen as

00:20:22.060 exterior, the way one man would look at another man and see you on the exterior. It doesn't really

00:20:31.420 say much about the man, does it? But the interior, the lawful would be the way God sees a man.

00:20:42.620 Looking at your heart and your morals and your character. That's why the medical mandates

00:20:50.140 would be recognized as legal. But our human rights, our fundamental human rights are lawful. And the

00:20:58.060 main difference that I can tell you between medical mandates, provincial mandates that have just come

00:21:04.300 out and our human rights is one of those is not only lawful, it has stood the test of time. It is time

00:21:14.860 proven for much longer than I have stated, because it goes back much further in history.

00:21:24.220 And the shame that I feel is the term from 1946 of never again. And here we are. So I'm very proud of

00:21:36.380 you all for coming and listening to this. And hopefully I've been able to shed some light

00:21:42.940 on the nonsense that is before us.

Action4Canada - October 03, 2022

How To Properly Handle Law Enforcement with Vincent Gircys, Retired OPP, February 2021

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