How To Properly Handle Law Enforcement with Vincent Gircys, Retired OPP, February 2021
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
158.05836
Summary
In this episode, we discuss the right to remain silent when dealing with law enforcement officers, and how to deal with a situation where you are approached by a police officer and you don't know if you're under arrest.
Transcript
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video and audio would be the best. So just let them know that when they do speak to you that
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you have every intention to exercise your charter rights. Just say, you know, I'm exercising my
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rights. That's all you have to say. You don't have to get into the whole definition of the
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paragraph that's written here. And tell them who you are up front. My name is so-and-so. I'm the
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owner of this establishment. Just let them know that they're dealing with the owner. Tell them
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right up front what your name is. You have nothing to hide there. You do have a right to remain silent.
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So at any point earlier on in the game when you're talking to somebody who comes in who has some
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legal authority, ask them fairly soon in the game, am I under arrest or is there a chance that I'm
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going to be arrested for something? And I would tell you right now, based on opening your business,
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your chance of being arrested is minuscule. Unless you've committed some criminal violation,
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they're not there to arrest you. They're there to probably have a look at what you're doing.
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And possibly if you're violating some provincial law, they're going to write you up a ticket.
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So they're not, for the most part, like I said, unless it's a criminal thing they're there for and
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you don't really know why they're there, most likely it's not going to be for an arrest.
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But ask them that question. Because if an officer is there to arrest you and they say that it's
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possible, then at that point, if they're indicating an arrest is imminent, then you should not say
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anything and they should be providing you with your rights. But again, that is going to be a very,
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very rare situation. You're not, these situations that we're dealing with, these provincial
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issues, these legal mandates, these result in provincial fines. So don't answer any questions
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they put to you and do it politely and just say, listen, I'm not being combative. I really
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don't feel it's necessary that I have to answer any of your questions. You can be helpful without
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verbally answering any questions. And you can ask them for their identification. And you can say it
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verbally, just repeat whatever they say in a clear voice. If you know that you have video or audio
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that's running, then you don't need to write it down. But if you don't have video and audio running,
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make sure you have a pen and a piece of paper. And as soon as they tell you their name and their badge
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number, write it down. That's your opportunity to write it down. So let's go to the next slide.
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Okay. So again, you're not required to surrender any documentation. If they say, I want to see your
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driver's license, you don't have to pull out a document. You do if you're driving a motor vehicle
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and driving a motor vehicle is not a right, it's a privilege. And with that privilege comes having to
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surrender certain documents. But if you're in your business, you don't have to surrender those
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documents, but you will have to, under certain legal conditions, provide your name. So provide your
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name to the officer if you're asked. And that's just a polite thing to do. But you don't need to
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dig into your pocket. They're going to probably ask you for your driver's license or some form of
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proof of your identification. You're not required to do that. You're required to, if they're there for
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a legal reason, just provide your name. So if you ask them if you're being detained or under arrest,
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I already went through that. And also state to the officer that you wish to have no further
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communications, if things start to go bad. And as soon as they indicate that they're going to be
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laying charges, then just make it clear that you don't want to have any further conversation.
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Okay, off to the next slide. Okay. So if the officer persists, you can ask them to leave the property.
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And if they don't comply, you can tell them they are subject to a trespassing charge. Good luck with
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laying that charge. I don't think that's going to happen. But again, if you need to step away
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from the conversation, and stand your ground. So we can go to the next slide. And I'll say that if an
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officer is preparing a charge, and he's going to give it to you, he or she is going to provide you
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with a charge, maintain composure and be respectful. And always be respectful and be the better person if
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things start to go sour, because you can never go wrong, or dig a deeper hole, or get into a further
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problem by by being polite and being considerate and being a respectful person. Worst thing you could
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do is lose your cool. Because when you lose your cool, you become emotional. When you're emotional,
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you don't think straight. And you can do something that you're really going to regret. And that being,
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you're going to give the officer an opportunity to possibly lay some criminal charges against you,
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if you lose your cool. So stay composed. And if you think you're going to lose your cool,
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turn the whole conversation over to somebody else, that you can designate that to to say,
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listen, I really can't talk right now. I'm too upset. Here, you deal with my, my number two person
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or whatever, and put it off to somebody else. Most problems and dispute that lead to compounding
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problems are going to happen because people lose their cool. So don't leave don't lose their cool.
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But saying that on the other side, police officers don't like to be questioned, they don't like to
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have their authority question. And, but part of what they do need to understand and they they need to
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do and that's why they get paid the big bucks, is they need to maintain composure. If you see an officer
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lose their cool, that's not a good thing. That's a very, very unprofessional thing. And I would
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seriously question any officer that loses their cool in the line of duty when interacting with
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somebody. We need to develop, police need to develop a thick skin and be prepared for that. Again,
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that's why they get paid the big bucks. So always be respectful when you receive your ticket. And when you
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do get a ticket, don't throw it in the garbage. Don't throw it on the floor. Don't roll it up in a
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ball and throw it away and say it's just a useless piece of paper. Once you're handed that, you are
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responsible to deal with that. And I have every belief that taking that ticket before the courts
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and dealing with it will result in a favorable outcome for you. And I'll get into that in a few
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minutes, but don't throw it away. Because once it's issued, the ball is in your park to deal with it.
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So just check off the section on the back of the ticket that indicates you wish to dispute it
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and deal with it and make copies of it, create a folder. So while this is all happening, once you're
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done your interactions with the officer, it's really important that you make notes. Police officers make
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notes. And you're as an involved person in this, who is probably going to end up wanting to say things
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at court, somewhere down the road, way down the road, you may want to be, you want to make reference
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to the notes that you made. So if you make notes immediately following the incident dealing with the
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officer, if you make notes and review, if you can review any audio recording and video prior to making
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your notes, just to refresh your memory on exactly what it was that happened. When you make those
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notes, you will be allowed to use those notes in the future in defending yourself. And there's nothing
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wrong with that. Everybody does that. So as long as you've done it immediately following the issue.
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And then when you're done, sign them, sign the notes, sign every page of the of the notes that you make.
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And those are yours, put them in a file, make sure you don't lose them and refer to them in the future.
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If somebody said something, whoever was saying something, make note on your notes that officer
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so and so made this comment and another officer made that comment. So it's very important to remember
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what was said and who said it. Also, just make sure you you keep a file somewhere and don't lose it.
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And you may have to actually develop several files because this probably isn't going to be a one ticket
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thing for you is probably going to become over the period of time, it's going to become multiple
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tickets. And I'm familiar with certain people who have, you know, stacks of tickets. And quite frankly,
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I don't I don't think they're at all worth the paper that they're written on. So let's go to the next page.
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Okay, so when it comes to court time, right now courts are closed. So any court dealings that
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you're going to have are going to be through a zoom court or an online process. And the experiences in
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BC, Alberta and Ontario right now is that there doesn't seem to be any trial tickets that are
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any convictions that are happening. Quite frankly, from all the conversations I've had,
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it appears that either they can't find any registration of the ticket or charge. So there's no charge
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before the court, surprisingly. Or there are many cases of let's make a deal. You know, it's a $2,000 fine,
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but today we're going to offer you this deal of $300 and we'll just call it a day. So if it was me,
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I wouldn't accept the $300 deal. I would accept a $0 make this gone deal. And then we'll probably be
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talking about things that you can do to retaliate against these nonsense charges. But it's just
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something you should consider. However, I personally would not accept any deal. Your rights
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have been violated. We're talking about the store related issues of anything in any charge dealing
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with a violation of your rights. It's going to go out the window. So I would not be dealing anything.
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Now, another threat that the courts make to you is, well, if you want a trial, if you're not going to
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deal today, we're going to have to put this over to trial. And you're not going to get to this for at
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least 18 months because our courts are booked solid. Well, there's something called the ask off
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decision. And it was decided upon by the Supreme Court is just what is a reasonable delay in time
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in dealing with your charge. And the courts ruled somewhere between eight to 10 months,
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depending on a lot of things, somewhere between eight to 10 months
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was the maximum acceptable limit for your having your trial. So if the courts are going to say,
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well, it's going to be 18 months before we get to deal with your case, you'll really have no say in
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that. And there's nothing you can do about it. Just voice your objection to that and say, well,
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I really don't want to wait 18 months. But if that's what it's going to take, that's not from my doing.
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That's the courts doing. And I'm willing to wait 18 months. Actually, don't say that. Sorry,
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you're not willing to wait 18 months. You're saying, I don't want to wait 18 months. But if
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you're making me wait that unnecessary delay, I guess I will. So we're just going to have to wait,
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because that becomes another constitutional argument. The argument that constitutionally,
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you should have your trial within 10 months, eight to 10 months. So, you know, just more advantageous
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to your fines. And I suspect that the prosecutors are probably looking to do this because then
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they'll just be able to throw your case out the window and say, well, we threw it out the window
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because of the delay issue, not because we were doing anything wrong and laying the charges,
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but because of the delay, we'll let this one go. They don't want to deal with these cases. These are all
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unconstitutional. You know, they're there, as it says here, that the fines are deterrent purposes
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designed to further install and still fear. So if you're arrested, and I suspect that there is a
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extreme high unlikelihood of any arrest, because we're not dealing with the arrest offenses,
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unless you lose your cool, or there are other issues that come into play. But if there's ever
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something that is going to deal with an arrest, and something goes bad, just remember that you do have
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access to a lawyer of your choice. That is, if you provide the phone number and say, this is the
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lawyer I want to talk to, here's his number, please call him for me. Otherwise, you'll be given access
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to a free legal aid lawyer as soon as possible, right after your arrest. So when you're provided
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access to a lawyer, you also have to be given a private location that allows you to have conversation
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with your lawyer in a confidential manner. And then following that conversation with your lawyer,
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when you're going to go back into the police, again, don't say anything if you're ever taken into
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police custody. It's never advisable to speak to any issues when you're in custody, just maintain your
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silence is always the way to go. Next page. Next slide. Okay, so under basic human rights,
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the issue that is not covered on the slide, and something I'd like to talk about,
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is the multiple layers of protection that we have. Many people think that our charter rights are gone out
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the window, and we don't have any rights anymore, based on what you're seeing. And it certainly
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appears that way, but I'm going to tell you that's not true. We still have our rights. Currently,
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we still have our rights, and I'm going to take you through that a little bit. Since World War II,
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the war was over in 1945, but there was a final battle, and that final battle took place in 1946,
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and it was known as the Nuremberg Trials. And at the Nuremberg Trials, what was repeated and echoed over
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and over again was, never again, never again would these atrocities be allowed to happen. And so as a result
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of the never again, in 1948, the United Nations had come up with a universal declaration of human rights.
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The universal declaration of human rights. So if you're looking at this picture, and I hope you can
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all see it, take a look at all these shields. If you see these shields, imagine them all stacked one in
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front of another. And these are the shields that we have as citizens in this country to protect us
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from this BS that's happening right now. And the first shield I'm going to say, and there are more,
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there are many more shields, but I'm only going through a few. The first would be that universal
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declaration of human rights in 1948. The next shield would be the Canadian Bill of Rights in 1960.
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And then comes the Canadian Charter of Rights in 1982. Three layers of steel to protect our citizens'
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human rights. After that comes the Federal Emergency Measures Act, another defensive shield. In Ontario,
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the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act of 2006, another shield, another Spartan shield.
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The Police Services Act of Ontario, another defensive shield. And you know what all of these acts that
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I'm telling you say? They all say the same thing. They all say pursuant to the Canadian Charter of Rights.
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It's all about the Charter of Rights, the Universal Declaration of Rights, the Bill of Rights. There's
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layer upon layer, like an onion, there's layer upon layer of rights and protections offered to you.
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And the last one that I like to refer to is the police officer's oath. And before they hand a police
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officer a badge, they make that officer take an oath. And usually, still to this day, the officers take
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the oath by putting their hands on a Bible, a Bible that is issued to them by the department. And they make
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an oath. And in Ontario, of course, the oath includes the promise to protect the Constitution of Canada,
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of which the Canadian Charter of Rights is a part of. So how in the hell did we get to this point with
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all those multiple layers of shielding and rights? How did we get to this point where your stores are
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closed? You can't be together with your family. And it seems like most of our rights have been taken
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away from us. Remember, all of these rights, they're all words on paper until strong men and women
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I'm sometimes at a loss to believe myself that we're in this situation. And I've always identified
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police as the guardians of the fabric of our society. And quite frankly, I'm very let down at
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this point. And I see a lot of subversion that has taken place within our society to get us to this
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point. Though the rights that I have just outlined, they are not gone, they are still there, but they
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are being subverted. And I have a lot of faith in our judicial system, that when these charges, when
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these useless pieces of paper get to the courts, that they will not only be dealt with accordingly as
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they should, but there will be some recourse for everybody who had to endure this nonsense.
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So there is no legal authority to close your business, your church, or to violate your rights,
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period. And tickets can legally, but not lawfully be issued. And I'm going to explain that.
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So I suggest everyone fight every charge. Okay, if we can go to the last slide.
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Okay. So I just want to touch on the difference between legal and lawful. And this is something
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that really bothers me. And I find it very interesting to see how we kind of got into this
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mess. So I'll just do a little bit of explanation. Some people think that these mandates that are coming
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out by the provinces for lockdowns and the COVID laws, we'll call them, that they're illegal.
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They are not illegal. And I have no idea how, but it is possible for provincial governments
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to actually create laws that are in conflict with all of our charter rights. So these mandates that have
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come out are legal, but I don't believe they're lawful. And I'll tell you what the difference is.
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And it's the same as the difference between obedience and morality. Legal on the left,
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they want you to comply and be obedient and morality on the right. So the term lawful is legal with a
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ethical and moral value associated to it. So legal would be the substance of the law, while lawful
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is the form of the law, the shape of the law and the character of the law. Legal could be seen as
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exterior, the way one man would look at another man and see you on the exterior. It doesn't really
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say much about the man, does it? But the interior, the lawful would be the way God sees a man.
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Looking at your heart and your morals and your character. That's why the medical mandates
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would be recognized as legal. But our human rights, our fundamental human rights are lawful. And the
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main difference that I can tell you between medical mandates, provincial mandates that have just come
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out and our human rights is one of those is not only lawful, it has stood the test of time. It is time
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proven for much longer than I have stated, because it goes back much further in history.
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And the shame that I feel is the term from 1946 of never again. And here we are. So I'm very proud of
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you all for coming and listening to this. And hopefully I've been able to shed some light