Action4Canada - June 23, 2023


N.B. premier defends changes to LGBTQ+ school policy

Topics
changes to LGBTQ+ school policy
Hosted by
Tanya Gaw
Mentioned
Rosemary Blaine Higgs Dorothy Shepard New Brunswick
Weekly Update： June 22nd with Tanya Gaw Trudeau is Fully Aware of Foreign Interference and the Threat to Canada Losing its Sovereignty

Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

173.25

Word count

1,767

Sentence count

94


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Starting July 1st, students under the age of 16 in New Brunswick will need parental consent to change their name or pronouns. If they can't get that consent, they will be sent to a school psychologist or social worker. New Brunswick's Minister of Social Development resigned over these changes, as well as criticism of the Premier's leadership style.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hey, thanks for joining us on this Sunday.
00:00:07.980 We begin in New Brunswick and the fallout over changes to part of the province's LGBTQ policy in schools.
00:00:14.700 Starting July 1st, students under 16 will need consent from parents to change their name or pronoun.
00:00:21.500 If they can't get that consent, they will be sent to a school psychologist or social worker.
00:00:26.000 New Brunswick's Minister of Social Development resigned over these changes
00:00:29.540 as well as criticism of the Premier's leadership style.
00:00:34.060 This policy 713 and the debate that ensued in the House really kind of was my last straw.
00:00:40.660 And I just decided that it was time.
00:00:43.280 I didn't feel I could accomplish anything more in this Cabinet with this Premier
00:00:47.980 and thought it was time to make the move.
00:00:51.180 Earlier, I spoke to New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs about why he made the controversial changes
00:00:55.400 and Shepard's resignation.
00:00:56.760 Premier Higgs, thank you so much for joining us.
00:01:02.040 You're very welcome, Rosemary. Good day.
00:01:03.900 So these changes, and I'm not going to say anything that's news to you here,
00:01:06.760 these changes to Policy 713 have led to a lot of problems,
00:01:12.040 some uproar in your political landscape, election chatter, ministers resigning,
00:01:17.280 caucus members walking out on question period because they're upset with you.
00:01:20.780 Why are you making these changes now, Premier?
00:01:22.680 Well, Rosemary, it is a difficult discussion, and I don't underestimate that a little bit.
00:01:31.340 What we're hearing certainly are parents learning more about the policy and wanting to know more
00:01:36.700 and wanting to play a role in their children's education.
00:01:39.900 And I don't think that's anything that should be unexpected in the sense that parents, you know, want that responsibility.
00:01:47.740 And that's what's brought this all kind of to a head is that more parents have learned about a policy
00:01:52.540 that is in place within our school system and wondering how there could be a policy
00:01:57.380 that would actually hide information from them.
00:02:00.020 And I appreciate, you know, that not all parents' situation and children's situation are the same at home.
00:02:07.860 But the policy's fundamental shouldn't kind of rule out all parents.
00:02:12.280 So we're trying just to find a path forward to protect the children and to involve the parents
00:02:18.220 when the time is right and have the right people engaged in that process.
00:02:22.380 Right. But the uproar is being caused by the changes to the policy, which now, if I understand correctly,
00:02:28.340 mean that students under the age of 16 need parental consent to change their names or their pronouns.
00:02:34.000 And if that's not possible, then they have to go to a guidance counselor or a social worker.
00:02:38.980 How does that help children who might be dealing with that issue?
00:02:44.400 Well, it helps because it puts them in a position where they can speak to trained authorities,
00:02:50.840 and I'm talking about social workers or guidance counselors, psychologists,
00:02:55.220 so they can have these discussions openly with them.
00:02:58.440 We will understand or they will understand situations at home.
00:03:02.920 And then a plan will be put together to protect that child and to work through a process
00:03:07.480 and maybe at some point educate the parents as well in kind of what the next step should be.
00:03:14.260 Sure.
00:03:14.500 That is all this is, is finding the right path.
00:03:17.720 And that is the big challenge.
00:03:18.800 I don't think anyone would disagree with the philosophy that parents should have a role.
00:03:26.060 But the time has to be right for the student.
00:03:29.100 And that's the goal, is finding that right time, but not purposely, you know,
00:03:34.280 going on for, let's say, months or years with the parents totally outside of the loop.
00:03:40.400 You used some language yesterday in the legislature that I, frankly,
00:03:44.140 I'm not sure Premier actually helped the conversation.
00:03:46.240 You talked about gender dysphoria becoming, quote, popular and trendy.
00:03:50.120 You said, we have a situation that's growing because there's acceptance that this is fine.
00:03:54.760 Do you think that those are appropriate comments?
00:03:56.660 Do you have a problem with the idea of gender dysphoria?
00:03:59.600 Well, my position, Rosemary, is not the issue in that sense.
00:04:06.640 My position as a grandfather and as a father is that I think that kids in especially these vulnerable years
00:04:13.440 in elementary school years, you know, are, let's say, you know, toddlers being exposed to,
00:04:20.460 well, I may not be a boy or girl, that is the role that parents need to play a role.
00:04:25.580 Those are very formative years.
00:04:27.580 And so how do we ensure that everyone understands what is being presented,
00:04:32.020 what's in the school system, and then we work through it?
00:04:35.620 Sure, sure.
00:04:36.200 But I guess I'm wondering, Premier, if your personal views are influencing your policy decisions,
00:04:41.860 because it sounds like they are.
00:04:43.200 No, Rosemary, it's not about my personal views at all.
00:04:47.580 It's about a role as a parent and a grandparent and thinking about my grandchildren now that would be attending school
00:04:55.780 and the fact that her parents would not know what she was being taught or what information was being supplied.
00:05:05.160 Because I think most parents, you know, take for granted that the school system is doing everything that they would approve of.
00:05:11.540 But there's so many things that parents are asked to have their consent on, so many things,
00:05:17.340 and yet gender identity is not one of them.
00:05:20.220 But do you understand that there are children who would not be comfortable telling their parents that,
00:05:25.140 who would not feel safe having that conversation with their parents?
00:05:27.980 Yes.
00:05:28.300 And so school would be the safe place for them to identify in the gender of their choosing.
00:05:35.120 I do understand that, and that's why our goal is to put a process in place
00:05:40.020 and work with parents and children and teachers and the guidance counselors, the professionals,
00:05:45.140 to help us build a plan in place, a plan that allows for the child to be protected
00:05:52.820 and a plan that eventually would have parents involved in supporting their children,
00:05:58.920 not alienating the parents and the child,
00:06:01.820 but finding a way to bridge the gaps that exist, and maybe they're certainly how they're thinking.
00:06:08.000 There are critics, as you know, that say that this policy is transphobic.
00:06:13.220 Well, you know, Rosemary, this policy is very similar to other policies in the country,
00:06:19.820 as changed.
00:06:21.400 Certainly, you know, if you can look at other provinces,
00:06:25.960 you can see that this policy is reflecting what other policies already do,
00:06:30.360 particularly our neighbors here,
00:06:31.820 and a policy that was put in maybe six years ago in our neighboring province in Nova Scotia.
00:06:37.600 So it's, it's, it was put in by, at that time, by, by the liberal government,
00:06:43.980 and, and it's, so when you think about that, you're thinking, okay, so why is this such a big issue?
00:06:49.780 I just think it's become a big issue because more parents are learning about it.
00:06:53.960 The policies have gone in place because they, they don't,
00:07:00.780 or they are put in place in a way that makes the parents understand them.
00:07:04.280 They're just kind of put in the system, and no one understands what they are or what is actually happening.
00:07:09.720 Well, I would argue, I would argue, Premier, that it's a big issue because you've had a cabinet minister quit,
00:07:15.820 you've had caucus people upset, and now there's talk that you're ready to call an election over this,
00:07:21.060 which to me is kind of surprising.
00:07:23.060 So I would argue that it's, that's why it's a big issue,
00:07:25.580 not because the parents are certainly learning about it.
00:07:29.220 Well, Rosemary, I guess we might differ in that, in that thought,
00:07:32.720 because I don't think name-calling and trying to have people just stop speaking or talking about it
00:07:38.720 is the solution, but I think some very direct conversations
00:07:42.720 in how do we deal with today's, the situation that exists and in reality exists today.
00:07:48.120 And, and that's what we're trying to create,
00:07:50.040 is, is that sort of process that actually will allow both safety for the children
00:07:55.440 and, and a path where parents can stay engaged with the, with the, the, the responsibilities
00:08:01.140 they have as being parents.
00:08:02.640 This talk of an election, you know, as, as early as Monday, is that something you were actually,
00:08:07.860 are you willing to go for, to an election over this issue?
00:08:10.480 Is it that important to you?
00:08:13.080 Rosemary, I never, I never said anything about an election happening on Monday.
00:08:17.100 Probably someone asked me a question in that regard.
00:08:20.960 Would I go to an election?
00:08:22.280 Yeah.
00:08:22.900 You know, I, I don't want to go to an election and, and that isn't my intent to do that.
00:08:28.700 I, I, you, you know, there's lots of questions about whether I, I should continue as leader.
00:08:33.800 And if, if that is the kind of the, the situation that develops when tough, tough conversations
00:08:40.680 need to be held, we need to get better as a society.
00:08:44.440 It does not help that the prime minister kind of calls me out and, and, and takes a hard
00:08:49.360 line against parents.
00:08:50.800 That, that's not helpful.
00:08:51.940 Well, he's not taking a hard line against parents.
00:08:54.040 That, that, that's, I don't think what he was doing, Premier, with all due respect.
00:08:56.700 I think, I think he was trying to protect the rights of people who want to identify in
00:09:01.020 the gender that they choose.
00:09:03.320 So we should be able to do both and we shouldn't exclude parents in the process.
00:09:10.040 Dorothy Shepard, who, who quit, as you know, uh, says that it's not just about
00:09:14.240 this, it's also about your style of leadership and the way that you've handled this issue
00:09:17.880 demonstrates that there are leadership problems.
00:09:20.700 That you're doing this without listening to people around you, essentially.
00:09:25.660 Well, we had the majority of caucus.
00:09:28.580 I mean, in caucus, you don't always, you don't, most often you don't get unanimous
00:09:33.160 approval on, on, on different issues.
00:09:36.320 That's quite common.
00:09:37.000 But we had the majority of caucus that, that agreed that we needed to find a path forward
00:09:41.780 on this.
00:09:42.700 So I, I appreciate that she, she was not one of those, uh, in that position as along with,
00:09:48.140 with some others.
00:09:49.000 But, but if, if our goal and, or if our process is that every time there's a tough issue and,
00:09:55.260 and we don't agree with where, where the majority of caucus had, had gone to, um, we,
00:10:02.020 walking away is not the solution.
00:10:03.540 It, it is finding a path forward.
00:10:06.360 Okay.
00:10:06.940 Premier, uh, Higgs, thank you.
00:10:08.400 We'll leave it there, sir.
00:10:09.060 Thank you so much.
00:10:10.680 You're welcome, Rosemary.
00:10:11.640 Take care.