N.B. premier defends changes to LGBTQ+ school policy
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Summary
Starting July 1st, students under the age of 16 in New Brunswick will need parental consent to change their name or pronouns. If they can't get that consent, they will be sent to a school psychologist or social worker. New Brunswick's Minister of Social Development resigned over these changes, as well as criticism of the Premier's leadership style.
Transcript
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We begin in New Brunswick and the fallout over changes to part of the province's LGBTQ policy in schools.
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Starting July 1st, students under 16 will need consent from parents to change their name or pronoun.
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If they can't get that consent, they will be sent to a school psychologist or social worker.
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New Brunswick's Minister of Social Development resigned over these changes
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as well as criticism of the Premier's leadership style.
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This policy 713 and the debate that ensued in the House really kind of was my last straw.
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I didn't feel I could accomplish anything more in this Cabinet with this Premier
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Earlier, I spoke to New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs about why he made the controversial changes
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Premier Higgs, thank you so much for joining us.
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So these changes, and I'm not going to say anything that's news to you here,
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these changes to Policy 713 have led to a lot of problems,
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some uproar in your political landscape, election chatter, ministers resigning,
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caucus members walking out on question period because they're upset with you.
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Well, Rosemary, it is a difficult discussion, and I don't underestimate that a little bit.
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What we're hearing certainly are parents learning more about the policy and wanting to know more
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and wanting to play a role in their children's education.
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And I don't think that's anything that should be unexpected in the sense that parents, you know, want that responsibility.
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And that's what's brought this all kind of to a head is that more parents have learned about a policy
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that is in place within our school system and wondering how there could be a policy
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that would actually hide information from them.
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And I appreciate, you know, that not all parents' situation and children's situation are the same at home.
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But the policy's fundamental shouldn't kind of rule out all parents.
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So we're trying just to find a path forward to protect the children and to involve the parents
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when the time is right and have the right people engaged in that process.
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Right. But the uproar is being caused by the changes to the policy, which now, if I understand correctly,
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mean that students under the age of 16 need parental consent to change their names or their pronouns.
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And if that's not possible, then they have to go to a guidance counselor or a social worker.
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How does that help children who might be dealing with that issue?
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Well, it helps because it puts them in a position where they can speak to trained authorities,
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and I'm talking about social workers or guidance counselors, psychologists,
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so they can have these discussions openly with them.
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We will understand or they will understand situations at home.
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And then a plan will be put together to protect that child and to work through a process
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and maybe at some point educate the parents as well in kind of what the next step should be.
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That is all this is, is finding the right path.
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I don't think anyone would disagree with the philosophy that parents should have a role.
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And that's the goal, is finding that right time, but not purposely, you know,
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going on for, let's say, months or years with the parents totally outside of the loop.
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You used some language yesterday in the legislature that I, frankly,
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I'm not sure Premier actually helped the conversation.
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You talked about gender dysphoria becoming, quote, popular and trendy.
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You said, we have a situation that's growing because there's acceptance that this is fine.
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Do you think that those are appropriate comments?
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Do you have a problem with the idea of gender dysphoria?
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Well, my position, Rosemary, is not the issue in that sense.
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My position as a grandfather and as a father is that I think that kids in especially these vulnerable years
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in elementary school years, you know, are, let's say, you know, toddlers being exposed to,
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well, I may not be a boy or girl, that is the role that parents need to play a role.
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And so how do we ensure that everyone understands what is being presented,
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what's in the school system, and then we work through it?
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But I guess I'm wondering, Premier, if your personal views are influencing your policy decisions,
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No, Rosemary, it's not about my personal views at all.
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It's about a role as a parent and a grandparent and thinking about my grandchildren now that would be attending school
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and the fact that her parents would not know what she was being taught or what information was being supplied.
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Because I think most parents, you know, take for granted that the school system is doing everything that they would approve of.
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But there's so many things that parents are asked to have their consent on, so many things,
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But do you understand that there are children who would not be comfortable telling their parents that,
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who would not feel safe having that conversation with their parents?
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And so school would be the safe place for them to identify in the gender of their choosing.
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I do understand that, and that's why our goal is to put a process in place
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and work with parents and children and teachers and the guidance counselors, the professionals,
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to help us build a plan in place, a plan that allows for the child to be protected
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and a plan that eventually would have parents involved in supporting their children,
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but finding a way to bridge the gaps that exist, and maybe they're certainly how they're thinking.
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There are critics, as you know, that say that this policy is transphobic.
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Well, you know, Rosemary, this policy is very similar to other policies in the country,
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Certainly, you know, if you can look at other provinces,
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you can see that this policy is reflecting what other policies already do,
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and a policy that was put in maybe six years ago in our neighboring province in Nova Scotia.
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So it's, it's, it was put in by, at that time, by, by the liberal government,
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and, and it's, so when you think about that, you're thinking, okay, so why is this such a big issue?
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I just think it's become a big issue because more parents are learning about it.
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The policies have gone in place because they, they don't,
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or they are put in place in a way that makes the parents understand them.
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They're just kind of put in the system, and no one understands what they are or what is actually happening.
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Well, I would argue, I would argue, Premier, that it's a big issue because you've had a cabinet minister quit,
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you've had caucus people upset, and now there's talk that you're ready to call an election over this,
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So I would argue that it's, that's why it's a big issue,
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not because the parents are certainly learning about it.
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Well, Rosemary, I guess we might differ in that, in that thought,
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because I don't think name-calling and trying to have people just stop speaking or talking about it
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is the solution, but I think some very direct conversations
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in how do we deal with today's, the situation that exists and in reality exists today.
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is, is that sort of process that actually will allow both safety for the children
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and, and a path where parents can stay engaged with the, with the, the, the responsibilities
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This talk of an election, you know, as, as early as Monday, is that something you were actually,
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are you willing to go for, to an election over this issue?
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Rosemary, I never, I never said anything about an election happening on Monday.
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Probably someone asked me a question in that regard.
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You know, I, I don't want to go to an election and, and that isn't my intent to do that.
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I, I, you, you know, there's lots of questions about whether I, I should continue as leader.
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And if, if that is the kind of the, the situation that develops when tough, tough conversations
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need to be held, we need to get better as a society.
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It does not help that the prime minister kind of calls me out and, and, and takes a hard
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Well, he's not taking a hard line against parents.
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That, that, that's, I don't think what he was doing, Premier, with all due respect.
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I think, I think he was trying to protect the rights of people who want to identify in
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So we should be able to do both and we shouldn't exclude parents in the process.
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Dorothy Shepard, who, who quit, as you know, uh, says that it's not just about
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this, it's also about your style of leadership and the way that you've handled this issue
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demonstrates that there are leadership problems.
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That you're doing this without listening to people around you, essentially.
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I mean, in caucus, you don't always, you don't, most often you don't get unanimous
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But we had the majority of caucus that, that agreed that we needed to find a path forward
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So I, I appreciate that she, she was not one of those, uh, in that position as along with,
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But, but if, if our goal and, or if our process is that every time there's a tough issue and,
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and we don't agree with where, where the majority of caucus had, had gone to, um, we,