A Chinese artist, who calls himself The Degenerate, is to be shown eating the flesh of a dead baby on Channel 4 tonight. Alex and John Milton Whitmore of Media Watch are fighting to block the broadcast. They say the artist is being controversial for controversy s sake, not for art, and Channel 4 has been accused of sensationalism.
00:00:00.000I read a chilling news article on air that a lot of people couldn't believe, but we link directly on InfoWars.com to the Times of London and other news reports.
00:00:09.000Channel 4 will show performance artists eating baby.
00:00:12.000Now, the Bohemian Grove footage I shot was used on Channel 4, our production, and Channel 4 has been accused of sensationalism over a decision to broadcast a program that will show a performance artist eating the flesh of a dead baby.
00:00:25.000It shows the Chinese artist, as they call him, the degenerate, And washing the newborn dead baby and then eating it.
00:00:33.000And this is to be aired tonight in the United Kingdom.
00:00:38.000I guess on some satellite channels around the world.
00:00:40.000No wonder some of these foreign countries hate the West so much now, giving the image that the West would show something like this.
00:00:46.000We know this has been going on in the East for a long time, but do we have to go to the level of total barbarism where there's no value on human life?
00:00:57.000We're joined right now Uh, by John Milton Whitmore, chairman of Media Watch, and we have a link to their fine organization on InfoWars.com.
00:01:08.000He's saying the artist is being controversial.
00:02:17.000And for many years now, we've been fighting any organization in the media, whether it be the written word or radio or television or what, and latterly the internet as well, who are Attempting to put out material for general consumption that we feel is morally indefensible, that lacks taste and decency.
00:02:42.000And we have a small but dedicated team that goes about this work, and I'm the chairman of the organization, and I'm an ex-television producer, so I know the area very well.
00:02:55.000When we heard about this particular Outrage.
00:03:00.000In fact, Channel 4 have kept it very close to their chest, and I heard it, first of all, when one or two of my friends in the press phoned me up.
00:03:11.000As outraged and as surprised as you are... By the way, we gave Channel 4, we've been calling them since this weekend, they will not return our calls, they do not want to come on.
00:03:22.000So we gave them a chance to give their side.
00:03:25.000Well, perhaps I ought to tell your listeners a little bit about the television set-up over here.
00:03:30.000Being a much smaller country than the United States, we mainly have a very few national broadcasters, of course.
00:03:38.000Everyone will have heard of the BBC, and the independent television company, ITV, which is the commercial arm of television over here.
00:03:47.000They've got one or two channels, and luckily, Digital has come on stream, they've got several more as well.
00:03:52.000Channel 4 was They were put into operation 20 odd years ago, so they're quite the baby of the group.
00:03:59.000It's important for your listeners, Alex, to know that Channel 4 was set up deliberately to make programs for minority audiences, and they've succeeded admirably.
00:04:13.000If Channel 4 were a little more successful at making If they were a little less consistent with making successful programs for minority audiences, we could just ignore them and go away.
00:04:29.000But unfortunately, they make either very good programs or absolutely atrocious programs, and this clearly falls into the absolutely atrocious.
00:04:39.000Also, I've seen a lot of British writers point out that they do some serious issues and they mix it in with a bunch of trash, thus Destroying the legitimacy of other programs.
00:04:53.000So it's almost being used to discredit a lot of different things now.
00:04:58.000Details of this baby eating, according to the Times of London, it's scheduled to air tonight.
00:05:24.000And it's very unlikely at this stage that it will be pulled from the screen.
00:05:29.000Channel 4 are enjoying the notoriety of the publicity they're getting at the moment, and I have a feeling because of it, they'll be more than viewers listening in and looking in than perhaps would have been otherwise.
00:05:42.000Well, that's obviously one of the reasons they're doing this now.
00:05:47.000Channel 4 did talk to the Times of London and they admit that it shows the stills of this Chinese so-called artist washing a newborn stillborn baby and then eating it and then getting sick from eating it.
00:06:04.000Can you give us any details of what Channel 4 has said or what other press reports are saying about the details of this crudely wicked production?
00:06:16.000Curiously enough, as I say, wallowing in the publicity they're getting on this particular one issue, the program itself is about art culture in general in China, and I suspect that this particular piece in the program will only take up three or four minutes of an hour-long program.
00:06:39.000The program isn't about the artist concerned, it's just touching on some of his work.
00:06:44.000And it's interesting to note, and I'm not speaking to justify this at all, but just again so we have a bit more background information, the artist has gone on record as saying that his work, questionable though you may think it be, is attempting to fall between what is legal, just about, and what is morally indefensible.
00:07:12.000We've had serial killers that kidnap women and gut them and then say it was an art performance.
00:07:19.000It says Zoo, the degenerate who's doing this, who claims to be a Christian, says his group has a major impact on his art.
00:07:25.000Jesus is always related to blood, death, and wounds, and this is a reflection of my art.
00:07:32.000This person needs to be in a mental institution, in my opinion.
00:07:36.000I'm inclined to agree with you, and I too am a Christian, and I'm deeply offended By him drawing lines parallel with the Christian faith.
00:07:46.000Well, how can they arrest the former BBC host of A Man and His Dog, Robin Clark?
00:07:54.000How can they arrest him for saying farmers deserve the same rights as other minority groups?
00:08:00.000Blacks, Muslims and gays, homosexuals.
00:08:02.000And then he gets arrested, but then this guy can go on TV and eat babies.
00:08:15.000But Channel 4 is airing this and propagating this crash.
00:08:20.000Well, I agree with you, and we're doing all we can.
00:08:22.000I've had numerous calls this week from around the world to talk about this, and we have inquired of all our membership, and they're going to write to the Broadcasting Standards Commission about this.
00:08:34.000Channel 4 have already had an avalanche of phone calls and letters From people associated with us about the impending program, they will get a lot more when it's come out as well.
00:08:44.000But it's curious, you know, that over here we do have in the UK a very far too liberal attitude about these things.
00:08:53.000We've had our own artist, Tracy Ermin, with her Unmade Bed, winning an award.
00:08:59.000Damien Hirst, Preserving a sheep in formaldehyde winning award.
00:09:03.000The pile of bricks that won an award a few years ago at the Tate.
00:09:07.000We do have a rather sad record as far as I'm concerned.
00:09:10.000Look, I mean here we've got people going in and smearing elephant dung on Christian icons and pictures of You know, $200,000, the government buys a picture of a crucifix and a glass of urine.
00:09:25.000But that all pales in significance to eating a baby.
00:09:29.000Also, I take it from the article here in the Times of London, you may be able to correct this, that this was shot in China.
00:09:37.000And in China, we know they have forced abortion and infanticide.
00:09:41.000We know that you can buy baby parts in health food stores.
00:09:44.000Um, so, I mean, obviously it's, it was done in China where this is legal, but at the same time, do we know the history of this newborn dead baby?
00:09:55.000We don't at the moment, and you quite rightly point out, Alex, that this did happen in China, has been filmed in China, and has been bought by Channel 4 to transmit here.
00:10:34.000Well, can I just say that I have been to China some 16 or 17 times, and I'm fairly well acquainted with the country and its people in certain areas.
00:10:47.000And there is no doubt, Alex, that there is a deep divide in the cultural attitude of the people of China, as opposed to the people of the West.
00:10:58.000And I'm not defending this at all, but clearly when you go to foreign countries, they behave in different ways.
00:11:03.000They have different rules and regs, and they operate their lives in different ways.
00:11:08.000Even the divide between Americans and UK across the pond.
00:11:12.000It differs, as you know, to a fair degree as well.
00:11:15.000Well, the Chinese ambassador is, or the undersecretary, is very upset about this.
00:11:22.000At least the Chinese, who have a much lower view of life culturally, at least in the past, at least the communist Chinese don't want to have this on television.
00:11:31.000At least they know you're supposed to hide this type of stuff.
00:11:34.000You don't splatter it all over national television.
00:12:30.000And with Channel 4, they are actually pushing them further and further back, and it's very demoralising.
00:12:35.000Even the BBC, though, I have to say, over the Christmas period over here, on the 22nd of December, put out a documentary which was blasphemous, in my view, as a Christian, and I was offended by it, questioning the virgin birth of Mary.
00:12:52.000So it doesn't just stop with Channel 4.
00:12:54.000We've got quite a fight on our hands over here, actually, Alex.
00:13:00.000basis, any foundation of the society in the West.
00:13:05.000This is obviously a tool of social control to push the agenda, to change our worldview so we're more easily suggestible, according to the government psychiatrist I've seen that have written about this.
00:13:17.000We've been talking to John Milton Watmore, chairman of Media Watch, and you can link through at InfoWars.com to their fine site to learn more about what they're doing and what they're putting up with over there.
00:13:29.000Television here has turned into just a bunch of trash, and they're always pushing the boundaries, and I just can't see how much further it's going to go, but obviously, it's got to sink further.
00:13:38.000Are you starting to see a grassroots backlash against this?
00:13:42.000Well, I wish I could report that we could, but in actual fact, we have completely restructured our organization over the last three or four years.
00:13:51.000We used to be known as the National Viewers and Listeners Association.
00:13:54.000And we rebranded a few years ago, called ourselves Media Watch, and we're trying to repackage all of the things which we believe are wholesome, and part of a wholesome society with regard to the media, so that younger people can relate to it.
00:14:07.000And we have an active campaign with colleges, schools and universities, and in fact we're putting together at the moment an award scheme for universities that we're going to distribute once a year on the basis of films that they can make, which we think would be worth it.
00:14:22.000But it's a very, very hard job and I wish I could report that the position is getting better quickly, but it's not.
00:14:30.000And I think I agree with you, it'll probably get worse before it gets better.
00:14:34.000Well, will it ever get better or will one day will we be obscene because we like mom and apple pie and football games?
00:14:43.000Will people that just want decency, will we be labeled, I guess like Sodom and Gomorrah or something, as the bad people, the extremists?
00:14:53.000Because I've seen reactions in this country to wholesome things as if they are obscene.
00:14:58.000It seems like the world is now upside down.
00:15:01.000I think it's in fashion and in vogue at the moment to take the pillars and the foundations away from any establishment and certainly the Christian religion in the UK gets a bit of a battering.
00:15:13.000We just had a new appointment with an Archbishop of Canterbury and he's quite a controversial chap.
00:15:19.000He's a top druid, a high priest, as reported by your papers, did the whole ritual up there.
00:15:27.000Well, the church over here is very traditional and is slow to change.
00:15:32.000The free churches probably have a freer reign, literally, to change more quickly.
00:15:37.000In one sense, it's its own enemy, I think.
00:15:41.000It's the best enemy sometimes, the church, because it doesn't actually relate very quickly to things like this.
00:15:46.000But certainly, Christians Over here, I get a bad time from the media on average.