Bill Moyers with his show NOW broke a massive story that was actually broken by the Center for Public Integrity. A Justice Department draft is much more draconian than the first Patriot Act, and now the White House is pretty upset that this has gone public.
00:00:51.000First off, tell us about the Center for Public Integrity, and then your analysis, your organization's analysis of Patriot Act II, and now the White House is pretty upset that this has gone public.
00:01:04.000Well, the Center is a non-partisan, non-profit, government ethics watchdog located in Washington, D.C.
00:01:13.000We look at everything from state, legislator, financial disclosure forms to campaign contributions.
00:01:21.000We have international journalists who look into everything from water privatization to the privatization of combat.
00:01:29.000We've been around for about a dozen years and we're funded by foundations.
00:01:38.000Since we believe in disclosure, we feel like we should disclose where we get our money from, too.
00:01:42.000Well, you know, you just raised some massive issues.
00:01:45.000We've got private corporations, this is big news now, paying off leaders all over the world to grab water supplies, jack up prices, quality plunges in many cases.
00:01:56.000We've had BBC reporters on talking about this.
00:01:59.000That really, when I watched Governor Ridge, On a Homeland Security meeting, he bragged, this is a merger of government and the top corporations, and really he's a big money maker, but this new thing with Patriot Act II, I have read it, obviously you've read it, and it makes my head spin.
00:02:18.000I mean, this is something right out of the Soviet Union.
00:02:22.000What response are you getting now that you've broken the story, and how did you get the document number one?
00:02:27.000Well, the response has been overwhelming.
00:02:29.000Our website has barely been able to keep up with it, and as far as how we got the document, we had a source who gave it to us, and of course, you know, we honor our sources and protect them, so I can't say much else about that.
00:02:45.000We talked to people in Congress, and we talked to various people in the administration, and were able to, you know, To our satisfaction, the document was genuine.
00:02:59.000Actually, within 45 minutes of our putting the document up on the web, we got a call from the Justice Department to tell us they'd released a statement about it.
00:03:09.000Some of the people who told us they didn't know anything about it suddenly knew all kinds of things about it and were calling to tell us.
00:03:17.000It's marked confidential, not for distribution.
00:03:19.00033 pages of it is analysis and synopsis.
00:03:23.000The other 80 plus pages is in bill form.
00:03:29.000Members of Congress were not allowed to read it.
00:03:31.000Ron Paul has said that here on the air, the Congressman.
00:03:33.000And then suddenly they get a call from Dick Cheney, you better pass this or we'll blame you with the next attack.
00:03:39.000And now they've got Patriot Act 2 that I can't believe what's in this, sir.
00:03:44.000There are all kinds of things in it that are just shocking and I think that you know part of the thing about this administration and the way that they've handled this I mean Congress has been asking for quite literally for months going back as far as July of last year and there was again asking in October whether justice was drafting anything and they were very coy about what their intentions were and would only give vague statements that you know that you know while we continue to look at everything and we care about protecting the American people And then lo and behold, boom, this draft has been floating
00:04:19.000On January 10th, they were getting ready to send it to Dennis Hastert and Vice President
00:04:24.000Cheney, but not telling Congress anything about it and obviously keeping it secret.
00:04:32.000And the question is, were they going to drop it?
00:04:34.000You know, were they waiting until a propitious moment like, for example, war in Iraq or, God forbid, another terrorist attack to come out with it?
00:04:41.000Well, that's exactly what I said Saturday in my post at fullwars.com.
00:04:44.000I said, they're waiting with us in the wings, just like the first Patriot Act, which most of it had already been written up by these people.
00:04:54.000Most of this has nothing to do with terrorism.
00:04:58.000It'll also say domestic, international, and other crimes.
00:05:02.000So, it also expands enemy combatant designation, the way I've read it, into other crimes.
00:05:09.000I mean, this is the total takeover of our society.
00:05:12.000It's a pretty chilling document, and again, you know, I'm kind of, you know, one of the reactions here was, you know, you know that this has to be you know when we first got it
00:05:24.000we were first trying to check it out we were somewhat skeptical just because of how draconian
00:05:29.000it is and you'd almost think that this was something that you know if you wanted to write a
00:05:34.000bill that would convince everybody that you represent a danger to civil liberties this is the
00:06:20.000They would want to do this after another attack.
00:06:23.000I think that a lot of people in government, as I've talked to them, are really getting sick of this.
00:06:28.000And I would guess you got it from the military, or the IRS, or the INS, because I know that they were given secret copies as well.
00:06:35.000I know you can't tell us where the document came from.
00:06:38.000Can you tell us judicial, or from the bureaucracy, or from the executive, or from the legislative?
00:06:46.000What branch did this come to you from?
00:06:49.000Well, you know, I really don't feel comfortable saying which branch of the government it came from, but I will say, though, that our reading of the intention of the person that gave it to us was that they were concerned about it.
00:07:03.000Somebody on the inside, who's involved in some of these processes of coming up with legislation, who got wind of it, was very concerned when they saw the draft.
00:07:15.000I don't think this was a question of Floating this as a trial balloon and the first steps.
00:07:22.000I mean, I think this was much more a question of somebody being a whistleblower and trying to alert the American people.
00:07:29.000Well, I agree with you, because this is only going to hurt them.
00:07:32.000I mean, they passed it secretly last time.
00:07:37.000They passed it secretly last time, wouldn't let people read it, so they certainly don't want us having months out the actual bill.
00:07:45.000I would say that's a fair characterization.
00:07:48.000And you know, with the first Patriot, I mean, there wasn't even a hearing in the Senate.
00:07:51.000I mean, you know, this very controversial bill went through, and you know, and the fact that this was held so close to the vest so long, and you know, if it weren't for our source, you know, we wouldn't know about it at all.
00:08:05.000I mean, I think that's a fairly troubling, you know, I mean, I think there are people in various branches of the government who do care about the rule of law and protecting our civil liberties, but the question is, does the administration feel the same way?
00:08:22.000Bill Allison, Managing Editor of the Center for Public Integrity website, publicintegrity.org, link to it on infowars.com or on PBS's website, Drudge also has a link.
00:08:32.000Also, I noticed in Homeland Security Act that just passed last year that it says no whistleblower protection for even sexual harassment, embezzlement, corruption, government information.
00:08:43.000They're trying to head this off at the pass.
00:08:57.000Well, I mean, I'm not sure if I mean, I'm not sure they can be designated a terrorist, but you know, but you're right, there are efforts to weaken whistleblower protections.
00:09:07.000Beyond that, just the whole freedom of information, which is kind of the lifeblood of an organization like ours, or, you know, reporters for the New York Times, Washington Post, or, you know, any paper out there.
00:09:19.000You know, being able to get access to information from the government is crucial.
00:09:26.000Especially in our system where we have an open, consensual government, but the only way to grade the government is if you know what they're doing.
00:09:34.000And this administration, I think there were something like 300 attempts to curtail Freedom of Information Act requests after September 11th.
00:09:45.000Have you gotten their feedback on what their view of this release is?
00:09:50.000I have not heard anything back directly from them beyond what we heard Friday afternoon after we initially released it.
00:10:00.000I suspect they're not very happy with us.
00:10:03.000Well, absolutely, and at first I tried to deny it and then had to admit it.
00:10:07.000What about Section 501, expatriation of terrorists?
00:10:12.000And it just says that if they can infer from conduct, thus stripping of your citizenship, which is an enemy combatant designation you've written for engaging, and it says this in the legislation, engaging in lawful activities can end up getting you stripped.
00:10:28.000And then there's another section about not letting anyone know who's been grabbed by the government.
00:10:33.000I mean, that's right out of the internal GRU or Stasi of East Germany.
00:10:42.000By themselves I think they're frightening.
00:10:44.000Taken together it's really, you know, the idea that you could be taken off the street and because you signed a petition or because you, you know, gave money to a group that was, you know, that you thought was perfectly legitimate was, you know, or say the charitable arm of a group that has some ties to terrorism, you know, directly or indirectly.
00:11:07.000Uh, but you know, but your intentions were certainly noble and had nothing to do with, uh, you know, killing people.
00:11:14.000Yeah, the idea that you could be considered a non-citizen and held, uh, without, you know, the government releasing where you are and holding you indefinitely.
00:11:23.000Well, this says that they won't even tell anybody they've grabbed you.
00:11:26.000And also, You know, looking at these definitions, they don't even have to grab you for giving money to a terrorist group.
00:11:35.000It's that they think you might have, or you've done things that might support.
00:11:39.000You know, let's say you've spoken out for Palestinians, and that's considered a terrorist group.
00:11:48.000Because I've read the whole thing, I'm sure you have too, and you're right.
00:11:51.000Taken in its whole body, it's even worse.
00:11:54.000I mean, it's giving a tremendous amount of power to the executive branch and to, you know, and the flip side is, you know, whether you're right-wing or left-wing, I mean, if you're, you know, there are any number of people who might be considering, for example, you know, we all heard about the militias and law-abiding people who Let's say that they're strong proponents of the Second Amendment, you know, could they be considered belonging to a terrorist organization?
00:12:23.000You know, I was about to get into that, and that's an incredible point, Bill Allison.
00:12:26.000I can send you, or you can do a LexisNexis search, I know you have that.
00:12:31.000Washington Times had a headline, Constitutional Terrorist, and I have the training manual that FEMA and FBI use.
00:12:37.000I have video of them in Kansas City, teaching a group of police that, quote, quote, The Founding Fathers were terrorists.
00:12:45.000They're enemies of the federal government.
00:12:47.000This mindset and their training manual says U.S.
00:12:50.000defenders of the Constitution are terrorists.
00:13:07.000I do remember hearing something about if you Federal agents being told that somebody who's carrying around a copy of the Declaration of Independence... It says that, yes.
00:13:19.000And, you know, and again, obviously it's atrocious.
00:13:22.000I mean, you know, if you think about the important documents in the history of humanity, certainly the Declaration of Independence is up there.
00:13:28.000It says, if you pull somebody over and they make, quote, frequent references to the U.S.
00:13:35.000Constitution, call the anti-terrorism hotline immediately.
00:13:42.000It's, I mean, again, it's a fairly frightening thing and you wonder, you know, we all know we have this government.
00:13:51.000We would like to believe that the government is, you know, lives by the principles under which it was founded and you have to ask whether that's the case.
00:14:01.000Well, Bill Allison, Managing Editor for the Center for Public Integrity, dropped a bombshell, information bombshell, that really is shaking the foundations of the police state.
00:14:11.000Bill Moyers, Friday night, and their website is publicintegrity.org.
00:14:16.000Bill, all I can say is, you know, last few questions, where is this going?
00:14:20.000Will this stop them from being able to pass it, or will they just say, see, we told you so, when the next terror attack takes place, they're doing nothing to stop?
00:14:28.000Well, you know, God forbid there should be another terrorist attack, but I would like to think that having gotten this out there, and you know, there are people on the Hill who will hopefully study this document, and if they do try to propose anything like this, the opponents of this kind of legislation and the people who care about civil liberties will stand up and be counted, and that's, you know, the best we can hope for.
00:14:51.000And to get a big grassroots movement going to take some time out to find out exactly what's happening because... Well, that too.
00:15:03.000No, I can't think of anything else to add except that, again, regarding the grassroots movement, if our web traffic is any indication of this, and now it's all over the web, Which, you know, we're certainly happy for to put the information out there.
00:15:20.000But, you know, I think that people are really concerned about this.
00:15:23.000And, you know, the feedback we've been getting has been nearly crashing our servers, so... Well, if they read the bill, they're going to have a heart attack.
00:15:30.000Bill Allison, thank you for joining us, and God bless you.