Alex Jones Show - 20060823_Wed_Alex

00:00:04.000 Big Brother.

00:00:05.000 Mainstream media.

00:00:07.000 Government cover-ups.

00:00:09.000 You want answers?

00:00:10.000 Well, so does he.

00:00:12.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

00:00:16.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

00:00:20.000 All right, welcome, ladies and gentlemen. ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:40.000 We are now into the third hour.

00:00:43.000 Yesterday, while I was on air, my producer walked in and handed me an article titled, 9-11 Bush Bashers.

00:00:51.000 And it said, after debating these characters extensively, I believe people need to know who they really are.

00:00:58.000 Jonathan Mosley, and I think people should know who he is, and he has the courage to come on and face us today.

00:01:05.000 He told me he appreciated my courage having him on.

00:01:09.000 Hey, a man on the right doesn't have to have courage.

00:01:12.000 He just is right, and that's the way it is.

00:01:15.000 He says in here that Professor Stephen Jones, and we've reviewed the tape.

00:01:21.000 We haven't found it.

00:01:21.000 Maybe he's watching something different we haven't seen.

00:01:24.000 Uh, and now it's been reviewed by others, and they're saying it's not there, uh, that he supposedly called for violent overthrow of the U.S.

00:01:31.000 government.

00:01:32.000 There's a lot of other stuff in here that I think, uh, needs to be addressed.

00:01:35.000 Mr. Mosley, thanks for coming on with us.

00:01:37.000 Hi, how you doing?

00:01:38.000 I am doing really good.

00:01:40.000 Tell us a little bit about yourself, um, and, uh, Your association with the publishing company that put out the Swift Boats Captain book for us?

00:01:49.000 Can you tell us about that?

00:01:50.000 Well, yeah, I wrote the book proposal for Command to get that published, because it's actually owned by my brother-in-law.

00:01:59.000 One of his authors was Barbara Olsen, who was killed at the Pentagon on Flight 77.

00:02:05.000 The Solicitor General's wife, yeah.

00:02:07.000 Right.

00:02:08.000 And, you know, I went to her funeral.

00:02:13.000 With Ted Olsen and his family.

00:02:15.000 That's a good move, personalizing it.

00:02:18.000 Personalize it as if it's with your argument.

00:02:20.000 That's how you open your article, Crafty.

00:02:23.000 It says in here that we profane the memory of the 3,000 victims.

00:02:28.000 Go ahead, you have the floor.

00:02:30.000 Tell us how we profane their memory.

00:02:32.000 Because we have a foreign enemy who has attacked us and has been attacking us since 1979 and hit the World Trade Center in 1993 and tells us they want to kill us again and again. 0.87

00:02:42.000 And instead of looking at the people who really killed them, they want to use it for a political point to bash George Bush and blame our country.

00:02:52.000 You know, it's awfully easy to talk about technicalities.

00:02:55.000 Well, let's start with that, sir.

00:02:56.000 Jonathan.

00:03:00.000 You say that it's Bush-bashers, and then you talk about how it's liberals.

00:03:04.000 Did you know that actually, I've looked at it, most people that believe 9-11 is an inside job are actually conservatives?

00:03:11.000 Well, most people I've talked to, I would have a hard time believing that, because the arguments invariably degenerate.

00:03:18.000 Well, but see, Bush is no conservative, sir.

00:03:22.000 I mean, out of the gate, you're claiming he's a conservative, when by every yardstick, he's not a conservative.

00:03:27.000 Well, that could be.

00:03:29.000 The issue here isn't whether it's okay to bash Bush or not.

00:03:32.000 My point is that they're certainly not looking for the truth.

00:03:36.000 The whole movement here is, we want to know the truth about 9-11.

00:03:39.000 My argument is, no, you don't.

00:03:41.000 Because you go from questions to conclusions without anything in between.

00:03:47.000 And because, um, you keep changing your story.

00:03:50.000 Mr. Mosley, you can go out and find crazy people that think no planes hit the towers and then try to strawman claim them that we, quote, keep changing our story.

00:03:59.000 I haven't changed my story from before 9-11.

00:04:01.000 And I asked you yesterday, I said, have you heard of Operation Northwoods?

00:04:06.000 And you said that you had heard me talk about it, but that you didn't know about it.

00:04:10.000 I mean, shouldn't you go find out of my claim about an official U.S.

00:04:13.000 government document to carry out 9-11 style attacks?

00:04:16.000 Shouldn't you go find out if that exists, or you just decide that doesn't exist?

00:04:20.000 Well, I don't believe it exists, but I think that most of the argument here is the fallacy of the possible.

00:04:27.000 You say because it could have happened, therefore it did.

00:04:30.000 No, sir, you just said you don't believe Northwoods exists, but you're not going to investigate it.

00:04:34.000 Well, I could, but how would, you know, do you... I'm going to Congress, sir.

00:04:38.000 It is ABC News, Baltimore Sun, declassified, in April of 2000.

00:04:45.000 Stay there, sir.

00:04:46.000 Let's go through it piece by piece.

00:04:47.000 I'm going to give you a minute, then I'll take a minute.

00:04:49.000 I've got my atomic clock right here.

00:04:50.000 I'll try to be fair.

00:04:52.000 Stay with us.

00:04:53.000 We appreciate you joining us.

00:04:54.000 It's here after a year in production, traveling to distant lands.

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00:08:03.000 Alex Jones, on the GCN Radio Network.

00:08:06.000 It's not about left and right, it's about right and wrong.

00:08:09.000 We wage war on corruption.

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00:08:15.000 About to go back to our guest, Jonathan Mosley, who... A lot of folks that snipe at us won't come on and take their medicine, but he's doing it, so I gotta commend him.

00:08:23.000 He's getting in the arena.

00:08:26.000 Get ready, I'm gonna open the gates on him in a minute.

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00:09:30.000 You want to stop the American Union?

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00:09:42.000 You expose how they're terrorists and we can defeat them together.

00:09:45.000 We can actually get the country back instead of being pacified by these government operatives out there that pose as conservatives.

00:09:51.000 And then you've got the well-meaning folks out there.

00:09:54.000 Like Jonathan Mosley, who joins us now.

00:09:57.000 Mr. Mosley, you've got the floor.

00:09:58.000 You've written this big article, 9-1-1 Bush Bashers.

00:10:01.000 Tell us how we're all wrong.

00:10:02.000 Tell us why we're smirching, profaning, to use your language, the memory of the 3,000 dead on 9-11.

00:10:09.000 Well, one of the biggest things that upsets me about this is that the effect of this is to not guard us against a real enemy.

00:10:17.000 Now, if there are other enemies and other people we need to bring to justice, that's fine.

00:10:21.000 But we know we have an enemy out there that wants to kill us.

00:10:24.000 And the effect of this is saying, drop your guard.

00:10:26.000 It's like a boxer letting his guard down so he can get walloped again.

00:10:31.000 Now, I know that from your perspective, you don't want to be blamed for what other conspiracy theorists are saying about this.

00:10:37.000 And one of the points I make is that there's a mishmash of different theories out there.

00:10:43.000 And as a consequence of that, people say, oh, there's overwhelming evidence.

00:10:46.000 But the overwhelming evidence is all contradicting each other.

00:10:49.000 From your perspective, you want to be held accountable for your beliefs, but from the perspective of the country and people listening, they're hearing it all.

00:10:57.000 I don't know how to respond to that, but we keep hearing all this craziness go back and forth, and it does keep changing when they encounter facts, they just switch to another argument.

00:11:08.000 There is only one official story, but there's hundreds of alternatives, which of course can't all be wrong.

00:11:16.000 But the thing is, is that There are several formats here of what happens.

00:11:21.000 What got me into this, you know, considering what their memory of Barbara Olsen, who I knew, is to hear these facts being asserted, and then you go back and you check on them, and the initial fact turns out to be false.

00:11:31.000 Now, I don't know, that might not be true of your arguments, but it's true of an awful lot of the stuff out there, beginning with the idea that, you know, there's a 16-foot hole in the Pentagon, when the engineers measured it at 90 feet, and there's hundreds of eyewitnesses.

00:11:46.000 This kind of thing.

00:11:47.000 So there's a structure of an assertion of fact, and then a whole bunch of argument flowing from it.

00:11:52.000 Go back and check the fact.

00:11:53.000 Turns out not to hold up.

00:11:56.000 The other thing is that what bothers me most is that people say, well, this is not plausible.

00:12:01.000 They then suggest something that's infinitely less plausible.

00:12:04.000 That there are thousands of people with no motivation to keep quiet who've all kept silent, including civilian radar operators and airline personnel.

00:12:14.000 The airlines lost billions of dollars.

00:12:17.000 It's just completely implausible.

00:12:20.000 If you're going to argue from the idea that something is not plausible, I think the alternative needs to stand up to your own yardstick.

00:12:27.000 Okay, stop right there, because you said three minutes, and I want to run over what you just said briefly, and then I'll let you continue to spout that stuff.

00:12:35.000 Number one, you say people wouldn't keep quiet.

00:12:38.000 FBI agent Robert Wright got up on C-SPAN at the National Press Club and held up a letter where he'll be threatened under national security for treason.

00:12:48.000 If he tells the public what he knows, he begins crying and breaks down and says, all I can tell you is, the Bush's vacation with the Bin Ladens. 0.99

00:12:57.000 That's a quote.

00:12:57.000 And then, we get the memorandum from the President, W199I, ordering The FBI and CIA and Defense Intelligence, Able Danger, which we now have even more on, to back off the Bin Laden operations in Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as HU Khan Laboratories in Pakistan developing hydrogen weapons and delivery systems, and it's now all on record.

00:13:20.000 And I'm sure with that you'll say it doesn't exist.

00:13:23.000 I'm sorry, everything I just said does exist in triplicate mainstream news.

00:13:28.000 Also, There were countless other FBI and other government people who were threatened with arrest if they wouldn't shut up.

00:13:34.000 When a colonel blew the whistle, they tried to charge him for $67 of unauthorized cell phone calls to his wife.

00:13:41.000 This is the type of stuff that's going on.

00:13:43.000 They threatened Sybil Edmonds with arrest.

00:13:45.000 All of this, so just don't try it.

00:13:47.000 Also, don't try to say they couldn't keep something this big secret.

00:13:50.000 They used drills to smokescreen it, compartmentalize inside these different government agencies, and they kept the Manhattan Project secret with over 100,000 employees for four years, and other facets of it secret.

00:14:04.000 for over a decade.

00:14:06.000 Then you say Pentagon, which I've always said is a honeypot by design, and I haven't messed with it, but I've stated on record that clearly what they show on the news is a 16-foot hole, then it collapses, and it is 75 to 95 feet, depending on which thing you talk about.

00:14:20.000 Then you talk about how we have all these different stories, but the government has one unified story.

00:14:25.000 They've given five different reasons for Building 7 falling.

00:14:28.000 Now they say they don't know why.

00:14:29.000 They said there were no steel columns in the middle of Tower 1 and 2, and they have the biggest columns you can put in a building that size.

00:14:35.000 47 4-foot-a-round giant steel reinforced columns.

00:14:38.000 You've got the entire Commission being called independent, being appointed by George Bush.

00:14:42.000 You've got a bunch of the Commission on the Carlisle Group payroll, Zelikow and the rest of them.

00:14:48.000 I'm going to stop right there and I'm just going to add that a lot of these people putting out the no planes at the Pentagon thing, I predicted stuff like this would happen.

00:14:55.000 This is a classic setup where they put out ridiculous disinfo on purpose, building straw men, a lot of these are operatives, so then you guys can come discredit false stories.

00:15:04.000 Go ahead, you've got three more minutes.

00:15:06.000 Okay, well of course we kept the Manhattan Project secret because the people working on it knew it was in favor of their country and were patriots.

00:15:14.000 No one watching the mass murder on television Remember, the World Trade Center site was owned by the firefighters for weeks.

00:15:23.000 They were looking for their buddies near Palo Alto.

00:15:25.000 On record, they reported they found the black boxes and ordered to shut up about it.

00:15:28.000 Oh, I'm sorry, they found the passports.

00:15:30.000 Two of them magically didn't get... Oh, yes.

00:15:33.000 The firefighters, many of them, think there were bombs in the buildings and think it's an inside job.

00:15:37.000 The head of the biggest victims family group says that he believes it's an inside job now and the majority of his members do.

00:15:44.000 Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I cut in on you, I apologize.

00:15:47.000 Right, but they didn't, okay look, to demolish the building the way I understand it is argued, you have to have 43,000 demolition devices, 236 steel columns around the outside.

00:15:59.000 Um, you know, some number inside.

00:16:01.000 Some people say 47.

00:16:03.000 Um, then you times 80 or 90 floors, because you wouldn't know which floor it is on.

00:16:07.000 It would take a few hundred devices in Tower 1, which is larger explosives, and it would take several hundred devices in Building 7 with the classic bottom-down, uh, crimp blow.

00:16:07.000 Well, that's not true.

00:16:17.000 Well, of course, the news footage shows it falling from the top down.

00:16:21.000 No controlled demolition in history has ever been from the top down.

00:16:24.000 That's what I just said.

00:16:25.000 Tower 1 and 2 were blown from the top down.

00:16:27.000 You can see the squibs as they explode.

00:16:29.000 I'm saying 7 was the classic demolition.

00:16:31.000 But the technical arguments, this is where they're all inconsistent, the technical arguments are that the falling Let's do this.

00:16:39.000 Let's say that magically passports flew out undamaged and everything else was destroyed.

00:16:44.000 No discernible remains.

00:16:45.000 Let's just say that the planes made those fall.

00:16:48.000 OK?

00:16:49.000 Building 7, what are you going to fall back on?

00:16:52.000 Which one of the five stories that the government gives us are you going to give us on 7?

00:16:57.000 Something like that, I don't think there's an official story, there's an... Well, you said there's one official story, sir!

00:17:03.000 No, there's five!

00:17:04.000 There's five and they've abandoned all five!

00:17:06.000 No, well... Have you actually read the NIS report like I have?

00:17:09.000 Have you actually read the entire 9-11 Commission report?

00:17:12.000 I've read the NIS report... And the denunce!

00:17:13.000 ...on World Trade Center 7.

00:17:15.000 Look, if you go back, and I have the news footage that I recorded from the day of, and that week.

00:17:19.000 If you look at the, one tower collapsed neatly, the other tower collapsed very messy.

00:17:24.000 There are chunks coming out of that top as big as 10 houses together.

00:17:30.000 They blew it in sections.

00:17:33.000 The metal was cut off perfectly in two-story and one-story sections.

00:17:38.000 Perfectly sliced.

00:17:39.000 Then they said no cameras, no photos.

00:17:42.000 How would they do that without 43,000 separate demolition devices?

00:17:47.000 Major companies could have wired each one of those towers in two weeks apiece.

00:17:51.000 They had major drills, they had evacuations, they had major floors closed down, they had all sorts of weird people.

00:17:57.000 I've talked to the janitorial staff that were in there, just like Oklahoma City that Clinton pulled off when they caught the different guys in there with the, quote, grey sticks of butter drilling the columns.

00:18:08.000 They told them they were maintenance people.

00:18:10.000 Well, and you would have to drill the columns because you would have to put the explosive directly against the steel.

00:18:15.000 Not if they're big enough.

00:18:16.000 But yeah, they did drill in Oklahoma City.

00:18:19.000 Jane Graham, the head of HUD, witnessed them doing it.

00:18:22.000 Okay, but then you'd need miles of wire.

00:18:23.000 No, Bill Clinton didn't do it, he's nice.

00:18:25.000 And you'd need miles of wire, and demolition experts have looked at that and said you always have to... No, you don't need miles of wire, you can go off a synchronized radio beacon.

00:18:33.000 Okay, but you couldn't synchronize different floors that way, have you ever tried to take a radio inside of a... No, you have different layers on different radio frequencies.

00:18:41.000 Have you ever tried to take a radio inside of a big steel building?

00:18:45.000 Sure, the government has all sorts of systems, and they use radio a lot on these buildings.

00:18:49.000 Okay, but steel doesn't... You're not answering Building 7, sir.

00:18:52.000 The middle collapses.

00:18:54.000 It perfectly falls in on itself in a perfect little pile.

00:18:57.000 But that isn't what happened.

00:18:59.000 What happened was that at the top, a demolition involved blowing out the bottom floor.

00:19:04.000 There's no demolition in history, and then why would anybody try it?

00:19:07.000 It would be unprecedented.

00:19:08.000 Wait a minute.

00:19:09.000 Building 7 was the classic where you blow out the central column, then you blow out the outside columns, and it falls in on itself perfectly.

00:19:16.000 It fell at the speed of an apple.

00:19:18.000 But it fell from the top down, not from the bottom up.

00:19:22.000 Building 7 fell from the bottom, sir.

00:19:22.000 No, no.

00:19:25.000 No, you look at it.

00:19:26.000 The penthouse, the first thing... Well, no.

00:19:28.000 The NIST report says it fell from the bottom down.

00:19:32.000 No, the first change is the penthouse.

00:19:34.000 No, no, no, no, sir.

00:19:35.000 That's how you do it with a bottom down.

00:19:37.000 You blow the central column so that goes first on every Las Vegas demolition.

00:19:42.000 It's a classic one.

00:19:44.000 Okay?

00:19:44.000 You're confused.

00:19:45.000 They blow the central column, it falls, then the outside columns are blown, and so it falls in on itself.

00:19:53.000 Come on.

00:19:54.000 Fine, we'll hear more from you.

00:19:55.000 You're going to be with us until 45 after, maybe longer.

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00:23:55.000 The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents The Alex Jones Show.

00:24:07.000 Because there's a war on for your mind.

00:24:09.000 There it is!

00:24:10.000 Jonathan Mosley is our guest.

00:24:13.000 Attorney at law, living in Virginia.

00:24:16.000 Professor Jim Fetzer, the founder and the head of 9-11 Scholars for Truth, has called in.

00:24:20.000 We've also got Barry Homish listening.

00:24:22.000 And I'll try to get him on in the next segment, and maybe I'll just try to keep our guests the entire hour, because people are just going wild to hear this.

00:24:29.000 I would just add on the imploding and falling buildings.

00:24:31.000 No modern steel building had ever collapsed from fire.

00:24:33.000 He claims one that did, but that was a separate, smaller, older construction.

00:24:39.000 And, I mean, you know, top scientists, the University of Edinburgh is on record, BBC, saying one's never fallen.

00:24:44.000 They just tried to burn a building down over a month period with different experiments.

00:24:48.000 They couldn't do it.

00:24:49.000 That was on BBC last week.

00:24:51.000 And we had the Madrid fire with 100-foot white-hot flames.

00:24:54.000 The big columns didn't collapse.

00:24:58.000 How do you respond to that, Mr. Mosley?

00:25:02.000 They're not uniform, identical things.

00:25:04.000 The idea is if one falls from ordinary fire, that proves that the temperature from ordinary fire can compromise steel.

00:25:10.000 So we just got three of those in one day, not anywhere else, but three in one day, one spot.

00:25:14.000 Well, when you talk about three in one day, that's language of randomness, which indicates that there must be a causal element.

00:25:20.000 There is.

00:25:21.000 There's a terrorist attack that hit, that affected all three, so that's not surprising.

00:25:25.000 But the thing is, the McCormick, look, people say no building ever fell from fire alone.

00:25:32.000 I got on the internet, five minutes later, I came up with a dozen that have partially or totally collapsed.

00:25:36.000 That is not true.

00:25:37.000 Floors have collapsed, not the main central, you can go to some old building, some 1900, we're talking about modern steel buildings.

00:25:46.000 I'll let you get more into that, sir.

00:25:46.000 You know what?

00:25:48.000 But right now, I want to give Professor Fetzer, who you really hit the hardest in here, A chance to ask you some questions.

00:25:56.000 Professor Fetzer, go ahead and make your statements.

00:25:59.000 Yes, many of the claims this guy made during this internet exchange were actually corrected online.

00:26:04.000 He nevertheless went ahead and put them, even knowing better, knowing that they were false or blunders, he nevertheless included them in his article.

00:26:10.000 Now, this guy, for example, McCormick Place was a convention center.

00:26:14.000 It wasn't a steel structure high rise with welded and redundant features like the Twin Towers.

00:26:19.000 So he simply pretends he doesn't know the difference.

00:26:22.000 If he doesn't know the difference, he's incompetent. 0.99

00:26:24.000 If he does know the difference, he's corrupt. 0.88

00:26:26.000 He's been fanatical, even obsessive, about posting attacks on members of Scholars.

00:26:30.000 I did a search, for example, Alex, on recent Mosley posts.

00:26:35.000 On the 23rd of July, he put up 19.

00:26:37.000 On the 1st of August, 22.

00:26:39.000 On the 15th of August, he posted 15 attacks.

00:26:42.000 His typical style was to post, then as soon as there was a response, he'd post again immediately.

00:26:46.000 His whole style was immature and juvenile.

00:26:50.000 If he was advancing serious arguments about our findings, they might have been justified in spite of that, but they committed elementary fallacies.

00:26:55.000 Well, stop there, Professor.

00:26:56.000 I want to give him a chance to respond.

00:26:58.000 We'll hold you over, and both of you are gracious to come on.

00:27:01.000 My concern here is that he says that Professor Jones advocated the overthrow of the U.S.

00:27:09.000 We watched the tape.

00:27:09.000 government.

00:27:11.000 No one can find that.

00:27:13.000 Mr. Mosley, I'm confused here.

00:27:16.000 You're a smart guy.

00:27:17.000 You're a lawyer.

00:27:18.000 Where on that C-SPAN footage did Jones advocate the overthrow of the U.S.

00:27:22.000 government?

00:27:22.000 About 80% through the tape, there's a question.

00:27:25.000 Can our aims be satisfied without violent overthrow of the government?

00:27:32.000 Professor Jones responds Echoing the Declaration of Independence, and ends up saying, no.

00:27:38.000 It cannot be, it cannot be, they're against... Alex, I hate to say there's been a gross misrepresentation by Mr. Mosley, but I've been in contact with Steve Jones... No, we have Professor Jones, we have Professor Jones comments that he emailed us now up on JonesReport.com.

00:27:55.000 This is ridiculous, it's outrageous, and even libelous that he makes these kinds of things up, Steve.

00:28:00.000 Okay, well what did he exactly say then, Professor? 0.73

00:28:03.000 He said there is no peaceful means to achieve our goals.

00:28:08.000 That's wrong.

00:28:08.000 That's false, untrue, and completely not what he said.

00:28:10.000 He denied it.

00:28:11.000 I was there.

00:28:12.000 He said we have to use constitutional means, specifically enforced impeachment.

00:28:16.000 You obviously took something out of context.

00:28:18.000 Just like the no planes hit, we didn't see what we saw.

00:28:21.000 It was on national television for everybody to see.

00:28:23.000 We didn't see it because it was some kind of mind control.

00:28:26.000 Who's making that claim?

00:28:27.000 You're now just picking from different sources to try to make together some kind of inconsistent theory.

00:28:32.000 He's now implying that we're saying that and we're denying that.

00:28:35.000 We're telling you, sir, that we've gone and watched the tape and your interpretation of what he said is out of left field.

00:28:41.000 Everybody can watch it for themselves.

00:28:43.000 They certainly can and discover that you're committing a libelous act.

00:28:46.000 Well, I'm a lawyer and I would know better.

00:28:48.000 Wait, you want to know better, but you commit such elementary fallacies I don't think you could pass a press conference.

00:28:54.000 Where does this come from saying that Fetzer is attacking Jews?

00:28:57.000 Because I've never heard, Fetzer's pretty liberal, I haven't ever heard him criticize Jews.

00:29:01.000 I didn't say that, I said some of the others are, but I cannot, about 90% of the discussion

00:29:07.000 uh... that we've had on the internet and discussion group i cannot wait a minute let me read back in here a professor doesn't have a part of got the three-page article for him in the report here where he does say that if you've got a few of the quote he thought i could have been a jew because he was packing up a little bit that that's correct i think i would like to have a chief and we're going to have a look at the bottom of this because uh... i mean obviously the

00:29:35.000 The indication there is, ooh, he wanted to know if I was a Jew.

00:29:40.000 I'm just totally confused by that.

00:29:42.000 Professor Vetser and I have been criticized for not saying it's Israel that carried out the attacks.

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00:32:58.000 All right, we're going to go right back to Jonathan Mosley.

00:33:06.000 He wrote the big WorldNetDaily article, getting so much attention.

00:33:09.000 9-11 Bush bashers.

00:33:11.000 We've got to be fair with them.

00:33:12.000 We've got to give them some time to respond here.

00:33:16.000 But Fetzer, you go ahead and finish up so we can do this one at a time.

00:33:19.000 Finish your points that you wanted to make.

00:33:22.000 He's playing several games, Alex.

00:33:24.000 One is that I asked him who he was.

00:33:26.000 I sent him an email and asked him about his background because he was acting in such an obsessive, compulsive fashion.

00:33:32.000 And I truly believe this had to be a child.

00:33:34.000 In fact, I would insist that this man, he may be older, but he acts like a child.

00:33:39.000 And I suggest that this person, if I had to guess, was about 15 years old, very bright, probably Jewish, possibly a resident of Brooklyn, attending a scientific technological high school.

00:33:50.000 Who believes he's superior to everyone else and has an obsession to try to prove it, but I was commenting on his behavior, not the subject of his quote.

00:33:59.000 Second of all, here's a couple of examples of the shoddy equality of his argument.

00:34:04.000 He says the Twin Towers can't have come down as the result of controlled demolition because they blow out the first and second floors so the building falls down into its own footprint.

00:34:12.000 But I pointed out to him online, before he published this article, that was an equivocation He's just talking about the standard kind of controlled demolition, as in the case of Building 7.

00:34:21.000 I pointed out then and emphasized, we're talking about a special kind of controlled demolition.

00:34:25.000 It's still a controlled demolition, just because it's from the top down.

00:34:28.000 It's not the standard kind, that's all.

00:34:30.000 But Building 7 was from the bottom down.

00:34:33.000 Yeah, Building 7 was a standard controlled demolition, just like we see in Las Vegas.

00:34:36.000 A few minutes ago he was saying that wasn't the case.

00:34:38.000 Is that what you're saying, Jonathan?

00:34:41.000 From the video show, it's definitely not the case.

00:34:44.000 One is definitely not the case.

00:34:47.000 It fell from the top down.

00:34:49.000 You're seeing a black on the bottom, caused the center pillar to fall, so you see a penthouse fall.

00:34:56.000 This is clear evidence the guy is completely incompetent to discuss these issues.

00:35:00.000 All these classic demolitions we see in Las Vegas over and over again.

00:35:06.000 You have the slight indentation at the top, coincidental with the blowing up of the bottom.

00:35:10.000 They blow out some beams in the center to ensure it will implode, fall toward the center.

00:35:15.000 No, Professor Fetzer, but let him, let him counter, let him have some time.

00:35:18.000 Go ahead.

00:35:19.000 But there was no blowing out of the bottom floors.

00:35:22.000 The thesis is, Professor Fetzer is a philosophy professor who cannot stay on the topic.

00:35:29.000 The thesis being tested is, number one, everyone says, these fell exactly like a controlled demolition, now I'm suspicious.

00:35:36.000 You go back and say, no it didn't fall exactly like a controlled demolition.

00:35:40.000 Now he's saying it's a special controlled demolition that nobody's ever seen before.

00:35:44.000 Okay, but the original thesis was, we're suspicious because it looks like a controlled demolition when it doesn't. 0.89

00:35:49.000 Well, but that's stupid because... Mr. Moseley, let me say something.

00:35:53.000 Sir, we say that because the firefighters reported bombs and explosions, and they reported squibs, and on all the videos, 7, 1, and 2, you see the blast points, sir. 0.98

00:36:03.000 No, you don't.

00:36:04.000 You see the ordinary system effect of air being, or of an entire floor being compressed down to nothing.

00:36:11.000 But they're not saying 7 was a pancake.

00:36:13.000 And pancaking wouldn't do that.

00:36:15.000 Before it's even pancaking, being blown up, you see the blast sometimes as much as two seconds before.

00:36:21.000 I videotaped it from the day I just looked at the video.

00:36:24.000 No, you don't see that.

00:36:25.000 I mean, this is the problem.

00:36:26.000 I don't know what video you're talking about, sir.

00:36:29.000 We have blasts going out, in some cases, ten floors below.

00:36:32.000 No, that's exactly what you don't see.

00:36:35.000 If you were, if you had a controlled demolition, you'd see floors that are completely undisturbed. 0.99

00:36:39.000 You're just, you know, I don't think you're stupid. 0.98

00:36:41.000 I think you're just trying to put doubts in people's minds, sir. 0.99

00:36:45.000 And by the way, we've proven this controlled demolition.

00:36:47.000 You can keep stating that we haven't.

00:36:49.000 I will just state this.

00:36:50.000 We have the public officials who are not to fly.

00:36:53.000 We have the PNAC boys saying they need a terror attack.

00:36:55.000 We have the NORAD drills, that's why NORAD stood down with the CIA targeting the exact same places at the exact same times.

00:37:02.000 We have the official Northwoods plan to carry out these type of attacks.

00:37:05.000 We have the CIA operations like AJAX where they declassified that our government stages terror attacks.

00:37:11.000 That's why you and your guys have got a big problem.

00:37:13.000 No, because you're arguing about the possible.

00:37:16.000 Because something could have happened, therefore it did.

00:37:18.000 That's a logical fallacy.

00:37:19.000 No, no, no, sir.

00:37:20.000 The government admits it's carried out terror attacks.

00:37:23.000 He talks about logical fallacies, Alex.

00:37:24.000 He commits a beauty in this article, and I pointed it out to him already online before he published it.

00:37:30.000 Namely, he says, because different conspiracy theories are inconsistent with one another, they must all be false.

00:37:36.000 But the only inference you can follow is that they can't all be true.

00:37:38.000 One of them could be true.

00:37:40.000 I mean, you don't have to... That's like saying if you have a theory of the speed of light, and just because ten people are wrong about their theory, including the government's story, one of them is right.

00:37:51.000 So, yeah, to say, because there's an argument, every form of science and research and, you know, detectives at a cop shop, they're going to be disagreeing, but somebody's going to be right.

00:38:01.000 You know, I pointed out to Professor Fetzer online that They claim to have evidence proving all of these different inconsistent theories.

00:38:10.000 And if there is evidence proving all of them... That's interpretive!

00:38:14.000 That's interpretive!

00:38:15.000 I pointed out to him that that's also a fallacy, because if you only take part of the evidence, you can prove one.

00:38:20.000 You have to take into account all the relevant evidence.

00:38:22.000 He's a master at what's called special pleading and taking only part of the evidence.

00:38:26.000 He's committed another blunder.

00:38:27.000 This guy could not get through a critical thinking class that I teach to our freshmen.

00:38:32.000 Well, I hope you take that course, because you can't stay on one topic.

00:38:35.000 Well, sir, can you specifically, going back to Jones, can you specifically tell us where, well, number one, you are saying here that he agreed with the overthrow of the government, and I've watched those tapes over and over again.

00:38:49.000 I never saw that or heard that.

00:38:51.000 Can you specifically tell me what Jones said?

00:38:54.000 He was asked, is there a way to achieve our goals without a violent overthrow?

00:38:54.000 Yes.

00:38:59.000 He then echoed the Declaration of Independence preamble, which is a call for revolution, by deliberately echoing the language and format which is an argument for revolution, and then ended up saying, there is no peaceful way to achieve our means.

00:39:14.000 This is completely false and misleading.

00:39:16.000 He said we have to follow the Constitution.

00:39:17.000 Well, we're going to get the exact clip and we're going to post it.

00:39:20.000 We're doing a big story on this because You know, this goes into the psychology of people like Mr. Mosley.

00:39:28.000 But again, I can't help but appreciate him.

00:39:30.000 Jim, at least he will come on and debate us and go head-to-head with us.

00:39:35.000 But what about this?

00:39:36.000 After debating these characters extensively, And then the first person you talk about is me, Alex Jones.

00:39:41.000 You have never talked to me, Mr. Mosley.

00:39:43.000 I don't spend my time trolling around on message boards.

00:39:47.000 And frankly, I wish Fetzer and others wouldn't.

00:39:49.000 It's a complete waste of time.

00:39:51.000 But I'm trying to understand here why you're implying that you debated me.

00:39:56.000 You've been included on almost all of the emails back and forth.

00:39:59.000 I don't know if you've read them or choose to participate.

00:40:01.000 That means if you put your name on a list, Well, if you put your name on a list, then you're included in the debate.

00:40:07.000 I didn't put your name... I mean, Mr. Fetzer and his colleagues put your name on the list.

00:40:11.000 I didn't.

00:40:12.000 I didn't put Alex's name on the list.

00:40:14.000 You're making this stuff up.

00:40:15.000 You just make this stuff up as you go along.

00:40:17.000 Could we actually debate for a moment?

00:40:19.000 You know what?

00:40:20.000 You get a minute, then Jim gets a minute, and then I want to go to Barry Homish, if he's still there, to get a comment.

00:40:25.000 But go ahead.

00:40:26.000 Okay, the structure here is we have a thesis, we have to stay on the topic.

00:40:30.000 Professor Fetzer is a master at changing, you know, tap dancing around and changing the topic when he gets caught.

00:40:36.000 The thesis is, steel, structural steel, fails under the temperatures of ordinary fires.

00:40:42.000 The McCormick Place was a 1960 building, just like the World Trade Center, It did not have to bear the load of 110 floors.

00:40:49.000 It was a heavy steel building.

00:40:50.000 It was the premier exhibition hall in America.

00:40:53.000 And under ordinary fire, in 30 minutes, the steel failed.

00:40:56.000 Now the issue is not... You're talking about a lightly built convention center that has an umbrella roof and is not a heavy supportive structure.

00:41:05.000 Those things are outward husk and then have a light topping cheap construction.

00:41:12.000 Everybody knows that.

00:41:13.000 I can't believe you're trying this argument, but go ahead.

00:41:15.000 Stay on the topic.

00:41:17.000 The topic is, is the temperature... No, I've studied that building!

00:41:20.000 You guys always use that building! 0.99

00:41:22.000 That's ridiculous! 0.65

00:41:23.000 Is the temperature of an ordinary fire sufficient to weaken and compromise structural steel? 0.96

00:41:30.000 Answer, yes.

00:41:30.000 No, it's not.

00:41:31.000 Okay, let's let Fetzer counter that.

00:41:33.000 That's completely false.

00:41:33.000 Jim, go ahead.

00:41:34.000 The melting point of structural steel is 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:41:37.000 The highest temperature a jet-based fuel fire can attain is 1,800 degrees.

00:41:40.000 There's a thousand degree difference.

00:41:43.000 The Underwriters Laboratory certified the steel used in the towers to 2,000 degrees up to 6 hours.

00:41:48.000 The temperatures never got anywhere near there.

00:41:50.000 They estimated closer to 500 degrees. 0.94

00:41:52.000 This is completely ridiculous.

00:41:55.000 In fact, there was a fire in 1975 in the North Tower on the 13th of February that burned much hotter and much longer.

00:42:04.000 The firefighters reported that in both towers the fires were almost out and to call up more ladders to save the people and there were people standing in the holes right for minutes waiting for help without burning or without being singed Begging for helicopter rescue that never came, inches away from pillars, that seconds later, as they talked on cell phones, blew up.

00:42:29.000 Now go ahead, we gotta give him some time, go ahead and finish up what you were saying, Jonathan.

00:42:34.000 The same underwriters lab, in their study of World Trade Center, cited McCormick Place and other, a dozen other steel structures that have partially or completely failed.

00:42:42.000 Or the proposition in Underwriters Lab's view that structural steel does melt.

00:42:46.000 No, they told the engineers that did the study to shut up and lie and they wouldn't do it so they got fired.

00:42:51.000 No, the Underwriters Lab, because Mr. Fetzer... Jim, Jim!

00:42:55.000 Professor Fetzer is again changing the subject.

00:42:58.000 Nobody is melting steel.

00:43:00.000 The issue does it bend and expand so it shears bolts, breaks connectors, warps the structure.

00:43:06.000 It doesn't have to melt.

00:43:07.000 This was a welded Steel structure with an intricate lattice, redundant support system.

00:43:13.000 It was very sophisticated.

00:43:15.000 It cannot have suffered from a pancake kind of collapse.

00:43:19.000 I got a structural engineer on this website to correct him on McCormick Place and on the capacity of the Twin Towers to subject to pancake collapse.

00:43:27.000 He simply ignores it.

00:43:28.000 When this guy is corrected, he just goes ahead and repeats his own phony arguments, whether they commit equivocation or logical blunders or no matter what.

00:43:36.000 He has the mind of a 15-year-old and he's obsessed to prove himself correct, no matter how wrong he may be.

00:43:42.000 That's because Professor Fetz comes back with DREC.

00:43:45.000 He talks about melting steel instead of structural collapse.

00:43:48.000 Hotel Windsor... Sir, listen, the University of Edinburgh, with their top engineers, for a month, every day, tried to burn down a 24-story steel building, similar construction.

00:43:59.000 They couldn't get anything to even weaken.

00:44:02.000 All they could get was sheetrock to cave in.

00:44:04.000 They burned it day after day.

00:44:06.000 BBC just aired it.

00:44:07.000 They said they couldn't believe the Tower 1, 2, and 7 fell.

00:44:11.000 That's why they did the major study.

00:44:14.000 Now, I'm going to stop you.

00:44:16.000 And there are a lot of other engineers saying this.

00:44:19.000 Kevin Ryan is saying this.

00:44:20.000 Countless others are saying this.

00:44:22.000 And I don't understand how.

00:44:23.000 Listen, it's been well known that buildings are safe.

00:44:26.000 Listen, listen, listen, Edinburgh's doing these tests because they say this changes insurance everything.

00:44:31.000 If buildings will suddenly collapse from kerosene, coal-burning fuel, black, burning, you know, smoke, low-oxygen flames, and you can run through this stuff, if this is the case, then the laws of physics have been suspended.

00:44:45.000 Did they hit it with 104 tons of aircraft traveling 540 miles per hour?

00:44:45.000 Go ahead.

00:44:49.000 If that was the case, it would have happened by the time the fires hit their peak level.

00:44:54.000 The fires had already diminished by over 90%!

00:44:56.000 Steve, he knows these arguments are phony.

00:45:00.000 He knows these arguments are phony.

00:45:01.000 I've pointed out repeatedly that Frank D. Martini, who was the construction manager on the World Trade Center, had observed that they were designed to withstand the impact of the largest then commercial airliner, Boeing 707.

00:45:11.000 Two of them!

00:45:13.000 Yeah, whose impact, he said, would be analogous to sticking a pencil through mosquito netting. 0.98

00:45:17.000 Now, this guy either doesn't know any better, in which case he's incompetent, or he knows better, in which case he's corrupt. 0.67

00:45:22.000 There are no alternatives. 0.99

00:45:23.000 He's either incompetent or corrupt. 0.89

00:45:25.000 Namuru Namasaki, the designer of the towers, went on record saying they could take multiple jumbo jet hits. 0.96

00:45:33.000 Nobody tested that, did they?

00:45:35.000 And a Boeing 707 is half the mass.

00:45:38.000 Sir, do you understand the molecular nature of aluminum when it hits giant steel columns and concrete?

00:45:48.000 It's a joke, sir!

00:45:50.000 Yes, and do you understand the bomb effect of 30,000 kilograms of jet fuel going off in the middle, in the center of the building as a gigantic bomb?

00:45:59.000 Most of that fuel burned off in the giant fireball.

00:46:02.000 They've done analysis, sir, of the pounds per square inch pressure generated by that fuel detonating, and it is thousands of times too weak to even blow out the smallest columns. 0.89

00:46:13.000 That's ridiculous.

00:46:15.000 We know exactly how much C4 it takes, properly jacketed, to cut columns. 0.51

00:46:19.000 This is hard to do.

00:46:21.000 Look at Dr. Frank Greening's extensive and excellent article, which analyzes all the energy on this.

00:46:27.000 And if you have a gigantic bomb going off in the center of the building, From 30,000 kilograms, that's 30 tons of jet fuel exploding.

00:46:36.000 You're mangling the entire interior.

00:46:38.000 Yeah, you would have had that damage, even if you believe your phony science, and then it would have broken off or slumped or bent.

00:46:44.000 It wouldn't go boom, boom, boom and blow off in clear little easy sections.

00:46:49.000 Is Barry Homish still there?

00:46:51.000 Hold on just a second, guys.

00:46:52.000 Is Barry Homish still there?

00:46:54.000 Barry Chomish is a writer written for major papers in Israel.

00:46:57.000 I believe he's here in the U.S.

00:46:59.000 I'm just going to give him a minute or so.

00:47:00.000 I don't even know what subject he's calling in on.

00:47:02.000 Then I'll let both of you gentlemen continue to the end of the hour.

00:47:05.000 Please stay with us, Fetzer and Mosley.

00:47:08.000 Barry Chomish, thank you for coming on with us.

00:47:11.000 What's on your mind?

00:47:12.000 Yeah, I was helped on, actually.

00:47:15.000 Look, the business of Jews and 9-11 and all that... Look, the architect of the World Trade Center is on my email list. 0.76

00:47:27.000 He's been writing me for the last four years.

00:47:30.000 Now, he always had difficulties with it, but now he's coming out and going public.

00:47:36.000 His name is Aaron Swirsky.

00:47:38.000 Uh, he lives in Netanya, and now he, um, he's suggesting that we design the building to take any sort of a plane, and he doesn't believe the planes brought it down.

00:47:50.000 And what's his name?

00:47:51.000 His name is Aaron Swirsky.

00:47:53.000 He lives in Netanya.

00:47:56.000 Um, as I said, I've been corresponding with him for years.

00:48:00.000 Barry Shumish, I've been meaning to get you on the air, and we finally got your number.

00:48:04.000 Let me get your number again as backup, and then try to give me his email.

00:48:07.000 I'd like to interview him now.

00:48:08.000 I know we have chief engineers, the chief designer, Yamasaki.

00:48:13.000 What area of design would Aaron Swartzky be involved in?

00:48:18.000 I'm going to get you his number.

00:48:20.000 If I have to, I'll phone Israel and get it for you, and we'll see what he says.

00:48:26.000 What do you think about Jonathan Mosley saying that he doesn't believe there was any government involvement? 0.95

00:48:35.000 Well, that's ridiculous.

00:48:37.000 Look, the fact of the matter is there are ties to Israel, and one of the most disturbing is Menachem Atzmon. 0.94

00:48:46.000 During the 1980s, the Likud party had two accountants.

00:48:51.000 One was Menachem Atzmon, the other one was Ehud Olmert.

00:48:54.000 Atzmon was head of security for Logan and Newark airports.

00:48:59.000 on September 11th.

00:49:01.000 He determined who got on planes and who didn't.

00:49:04.000 Well, I know Horat reported that Odogo did indeed warn his employees.

00:49:09.000 That's not an urban legend.

00:49:10.000 That's from Israel.

00:49:11.000 But I personally don't believe Israel could carry it out.

00:49:13.000 I certainly believe they knew what was going on.

00:49:15.000 It's not just Israel.

00:49:17.000 We had a war supposedly over.

00:49:21.000 We have a guy named Seymour Hersh claiming that the CFR, the so-called neocons, approved the war and that Israel took the air for two and a half weeks with no ground troops to see what it would be like to bomb Iraq.

00:49:39.000 And we're getting all terrible, terrible lost of young Israeli writers.

00:49:44.000 Barry, I gotta leave you there.

00:49:47.000 Let me get you on as a guest.

00:49:48.000 Great journalist.

00:49:49.000 Get his number because I know he's traveling around right now.

00:49:52.000 For me, Scott.

00:49:52.000 We'll get him on next week if he can.

00:49:54.000 Thank you, Barry.

00:49:55.000 We're going to go out of break to a final segment with both our guests.

00:49:58.000 We appreciate them both being here with us.

00:49:59.000 Jonathan Mosley, I'm going to let you take us out of this segment.

00:50:02.000 Go ahead.

00:50:03.000 Well again, there are hundreds of alerts every year.

00:50:05.000 This is what bothers me.

00:50:07.000 People are constantly being warned that there's chatter or something like that.

00:50:10.000 The fact that some security person got it from authorities and passed it down, that's happening constantly.

00:50:15.000 And was always happening constantly.

00:50:16.000 But the media then tried to claim that it was just an urban legend and no one was warned.

00:50:20.000 Why didn't they just say what you just said?

00:50:22.000 Well, I don't know, but I remember hearing warnings during the summer of 2001, before anyone knew there was going to be a 9-11.

00:50:29.000 For me, probably.

00:50:31.000 Stay there, both of you.

00:50:32.000 Final segment with Jim Fetzer and our guest Jonathan Mosley, who wrote this savage hit piece on myself.

00:50:41.000 But I think it's great.

00:50:41.000 They're going to go to my website, InfoWars.com, and they're going to find out the truth.

00:50:46.000 They're going to join us to defend this republic.

00:50:49.000 I know it's hard to believe our government did this, but it's not our government.

00:50:52.000 It's globalists.

00:50:53.000 They're the same ones getting rid of our borders right now. 0.68

00:50:56.000 The same one's giving away our ports.

00:50:57.000 The same one's giving away our ports.

00:51:03.000 After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.

00:51:08.000 Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.

00:51:17.000 Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.

00:51:24.000 Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.

00:51:36.000 Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.

00:51:40.000 It's an anthology of government crimes.

00:51:42.000 Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.

00:51:47.000 Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv The War on Terrorism.

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00:53:54.000 Stop the terrorists.

00:54:14.000 Stop the people that carried out 9-11!

00:54:15.000 We're carrying the new book, The Terror Conspiracy, by Jim Mars.

00:54:18.000 You can't even get it for, what, 20 days?

00:54:20.000 Then it'll be on bookstore shelves nationwide.

00:54:22.000 And my new film, Terror Storm, get it at Infowars.com.

00:54:25.000 The official final DVD is out with the 66 minutes of extras, including Professor Jones and Fetzer's speeches.

00:54:33.000 It's excellent, so get that at Infowars.com.

00:54:35.000 Get it, make copies, get it out to everyone.

00:54:38.000 It's having a huge effect.

00:54:39.000 Professor Fetzer, just in closing here, anything else you'd like to say about 9/11? - Well, I think that Mosley's last point well illustrates his incapacity to come to grips with the facts in this matter.

00:54:52.000 He said that the plane that actually hit the building was very different than the 707s that they were designed to accommodate And in fact, precisely the opposite is the case.

00:55:02.000 I routinely lecture on this.

00:55:03.000 The physical properties, the mass, and even the fuel capacity of these planes are very comparable.

00:55:09.000 And I found at least three other engineers who agreed with Frank DiMartini that the buildings were constructed to withstand the impact of those airliners.

00:55:17.000 His point here is either deliberately deceiving us or he's utterly incompetent because he has no familiarity with the facts of the case.

00:55:24.000 Well, I mean, let's ask him.

00:55:25.000 Why are you doing this?

00:55:26.000 I think he's told us he doesn't believe the story we've put out.

00:55:29.000 I guess he believes the official story.

00:55:31.000 I know when he says that there's one official story, that is not the case.

00:55:34.000 The government constantly is changing its story.

00:55:38.000 Maybe Jonathan's missed that.

00:55:40.000 Jonathan, your comments?

00:55:42.000 Well, the Boeing website reports the mass fully loaded as being double for the aircraft that hit the World Trade Center than a 707.

00:55:50.000 And the theory in the 60s was that an aircraft going around 180 miles an hour lost from the airport might hit it.

00:55:59.000 Philosophy professor Fitzer apparently doesn't know that the kinetic energy increases with a square of speed.

00:56:05.000 Well, listen, you're a lawyer.

00:56:07.000 He's a professor.

00:56:09.000 We all have rights to have our news and study.

00:56:12.000 But you keep implying by saying he's a philosophy professor that we don't have a bunch of scientists trained in engineering and physics that have come to the same conclusion.

00:56:23.000 He appears not even to know that my PhD is in the history of science and the philosophy of science.

00:56:28.000 The history of science is dominated by physics.

00:56:30.000 He doesn't understand I've published 27 books on technical subjects.

00:56:33.000 and have taught critical thinking, logic, and scientific reasoning for 35 years.

00:56:37.000 And the history of philosophy.

00:56:38.000 I can spot blunders when they occur, and you commit them all the time.

00:56:42.000 I've explained them to you, and you went ahead and published them anyway. 0.98

00:56:45.000 That's completely irresponsible, and the product is intellectual rubbish.

00:56:49.000 This is what Kevin Ryan said, and we'll get to the bottom of it.

00:56:53.000 He's emailed WorldNetDaily, and instead of the numerous false statements made in the article by John Mosley that you recently published, at least one should result in legal action.

00:57:04.000 Anyone who actually listened to the C-SPAN broadcast and 9-11 Scholars Group can clearly hear that Mosley's quote of Stephen Jones is inaccurate to say the least.

00:57:13.000 Dr. Jones did not say that there is no peaceful way to achieve the group's goals, and Dr. Jones has not promoted violence in any of his presentations.

00:57:22.000 A correction of this libelous error might be wise choice.

00:57:25.000 Thanks, Kevin Ryan, UL Laboratories former underwriter engineer.

00:57:30.000 You want to comment to his email he's put out?

00:57:31.000 Millions of people thought I think this guy ought to be reported to the Board of Ethics that in his domain, this is completely unethical and corrupt behavior.

00:57:42.000 Well, Mr. Professor Fetzer repeatedly says that the weight of one floor is not enough to bring down subsequent floors.

00:57:47.000 No, in full note, well, the twenty-nine floors, the thirty-five... Mostly you're jumping around.

00:57:52.000 We're talking about Steve Jones and your libel of him.

00:57:54.000 I was there, buddy.

00:57:55.000 He didn't say what you claimed.

00:57:56.000 We're talking about why the University of Minnesota should fire you, Mr. Professor Fetzer, because you're specifically lying.

00:58:03.000 They made me a distinguished McKnight University professor.

00:58:07.000 You better check it out, Mosley.

00:58:09.000 Your logic is atrocious.

00:58:13.000 We are out of time, ladies and gentlemen.

00:58:15.000 Professor Fetzer, thank you for coming on.

00:58:17.000 My pleasure, Alex.

00:58:18.000 Jonathan Mosley, will we see more articles from you?

00:58:22.000 Well, I didn't get to debate or say much here.

00:58:25.000 I guess you might, especially on Thermite.

00:58:28.000 You've got probably 20 minutes to talk.

00:58:31.000 That's not fair.

00:58:32.000 You've got to save plenty.

00:58:34.000 Well, listen, you can come back on.

00:58:35.000 We'll set you back up next week.

00:58:37.000 God bless, folks.

00:58:40.000 Order a copy of this show for your friends and family at GCNlive.com or call 877-300-7645.

00:58:44.000 or call 877-300-7645.

00:58:46.000 Nuclear...

00:58:52.000 Big Brother.

00:58:57.000 Mainstream media.

00:58:59.000 Government cover-ups.

00:59:01.000 You want answers?

00:59:03.000 Well, so does he.

00:59:04.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

00:59:08.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

00:59:16.000 Clifford Carnicom will join us for an hour plus to talk about chemtrails, aerial spraying, What's really going on, the latest developments there, and going back over his six, seven years of research on this.

00:59:29.000 Right now, let's go back to the calls, Tim, Williamson, or Wilson, and others.

00:59:33.000 Tim in West Virginia, you're on the air, thanks for holding.

00:59:36.000 Hello Alex, this is Tim, I'm back in West Virginia there.

00:59:41.000 What I wanted to call you about, I received a call from a survey, a presidential survey.

00:59:46.000 They was wanting the ratings on Bush.

00:59:48.000 They wanted to know if maybe Bush's rating was a little bit higher than what the biased media was reporting it to be.

00:59:53.000 So it was a fake neocon call?

00:59:56.000 Right, right.

00:59:56.000 So I said, okay, do you care to participate in the survey?

01:00:00.000 I said, sure.

01:00:02.000 So then they put someone on there, he's just a drum roll about giving comfort and aid to the enemy and all that stuff.

01:00:09.000 So, Dr. Ray says, how do you rate this?

01:00:13.000 I said, well, I say his rating is lower than what they were reporting.

01:00:17.000 And they say, well, why do you think that?

01:00:18.000 I said, well, uh, okay, uh, I'll give you one word, William Rodriguez.

01:00:25.000 He didn't know what that was.

01:00:26.000 I said, okay, 9-11, inside job, Bush did it, should be charged for treason and executed.

01:00:33.000 And he said, uh, what?

01:00:35.000 I said, uh, yeah.

01:00:36.000 He said, no, Clinton done that, and he hung up on me.

01:00:40.000 So you've got some neocon polling agency calling.

01:00:43.000 That's called a push poll, by the way.

01:00:45.000 Should our leader be able to protect us from terrorists?

01:00:48.000 And then the headline, the people support Bush in the war on terror.

01:00:53.000 I mean, I've gotten calls like that before, and then they'll put out a little fake neocon report.

01:00:58.000 Right.

01:00:59.000 Yeah, that's what I thought was kind of funny.

01:01:02.000 They were saying the past leader Are you kidding?

01:01:07.000 The so-called liberal media is busy spinning and lying and acting like Bush actually runs something. 0.84

01:01:11.000 The guy's a puppet to begin with.

01:01:14.000 Hey, good job, Tim.

01:01:15.000 I appreciate your call.

01:01:16.000 The only thing I disagree with is I'm not going to come on here and say I think Bush should be executed. 0.99

01:01:20.000 He's a puppet. 0.93

01:01:21.000 I think he deserves a jury by his peers, needs to be brought to trial for treason, and then the sentence needs to be carried out.

01:01:28.000 Let's talk to, and I would just advise our listeners never to really talk like that, Because you can get in a lot of trouble for saying that.

01:01:35.000 And I'm not condescending against the caller.

01:01:37.000 Sounds like a great person.

01:01:38.000 I just don't want our good people to get in trouble.

01:01:41.000 Let's talk to Wilson in Arkansas.

01:01:43.000 Wilson, welcome.

01:01:44.000 Thank you for taking my call.

01:01:45.000 I've got a quick comment and an unrelated question.

01:01:48.000 Sure, go ahead.

01:01:49.000 My comment is to Christians, and this is as a Christian, to those who support Israel no matter what Israel does.

01:01:55.000 Evil is evil, and no one has the right to do it.

01:01:57.000 Tribulation and anguish comes upon every man that does evil, to the Jew first and also the Gentile. 0.98

01:02:02.000 Glory and honor and peace to every man that works good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles and Romans, if anyone wants to check it out.

01:02:09.000 Nobody has a right to do evil, just because you're called Israel, whatever.

01:02:13.000 Evil's evil, period.

01:02:14.000 My question was, what's your take on the Leo Wanta $4.5 trillion settlement articles that are floating around the internet?

01:02:24.000 And I'll take your comment off of that.

01:02:25.000 You know, thank you.

01:02:27.000 I don't know what to say about that.

01:02:28.000 I don't know if that's accurate or if that's real or what's going on.

01:02:32.000 Properly research it, and that's basically where I'll leave it.

01:02:36.000 There's a lot of stuff on the web that, you know, you can't confirm one way or the other, so I just move away from it.

01:02:42.000 For those that just joined us, Israel admits they're targeting civilian convoys that they told to flee, and the convoys in southern Lebanon, out of five major towns and villages, run up against the bridges that have been bombed out, and then here come the helicopters and jets firing Hellfire missiles and dropping 500-pound bombs and strafing them.

01:03:02.000 And there are photos and video, and it's all over the foreign press of dead families splattered all over the road, but you're not really seeing that.

01:03:09.000 You're seeing a censored version, a watered-down version on our news.

01:03:13.000 So, in part of the third hour today, I'll get more into that.

01:03:18.000 I mentioned a bunch of news in the last hour I was going to get into, and I haven't yet.

01:03:23.000 I will cover it.

01:03:23.000 It's up on InfoWars.com right now.

01:03:26.000 Marshals!

01:03:27.000 Innocent people placed on watch list to meet quota.

01:03:35.000 Oh my gosh, this is out of Denver.

01:03:38.000 This is out of TV Channel 7.

01:03:44.000 And it is admitted that they are putting innocent people's names on terrorist watch lists.

01:03:49.000 We'll get to that later.

01:03:49.000 Stay with us.

01:03:55.000 It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.

01:03:59.000 My new film, Terror Storm, is complete.

01:04:01.000 Shocking declassified government documents prove that Western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.

01:04:09.000 Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.

01:04:17.000 Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, the White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, The latest 9-11 information and much, much more.

01:04:28.000 Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.

01:04:32.000 It's an anthology of government crimes.

01:04:35.000 Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.

01:04:39.000 Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-2533-139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.

01:04:52.000 Terrorism!

01:04:53.000 Terrorism!

01:04:54.000 Chemical attacks, dirty bombs, fallout, biological attack, anthrax, and to top it all off, duct tape and plastic!

01:05:00.000 Alarming words for our time!

01:05:02.000 But how do you protect your family during such a crisis?

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01:05:33.000 Get the critical information you need now for only $29 plus shipping by calling New Millennium at 888-803-4438.

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01:05:43.000 That's 888-803-4438.

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01:06:49.000 He's the T-Rex of political talk.

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01:06:59.000 Before we get into this next subject of the government and private agencies, groups, organizations, black ops, black world, corporations, syndicates, carrying out aerial spraying against the American syndicates, carrying out aerial spraying against the American people, I want to just set the table here. 0.74

01:07:20.000 And And I hope to keep Clifford Carnicom at least halfway into the next hour if we have plenty of time to take your calls.

01:07:28.000 I remember long before we had even heard of chemtrails instead of contrails, compensation trails, reading in declassified government documents in 77 that there had been over 3,000 declassified instances of aerial spraying of chemical, biological, and radiological materials, and then a whole other section of particulates that didn't fit into those four, Being sprayed on the American people.

01:07:56.000 And I like to go back to really famous cases of the few that have been actually heard of.

01:08:01.000 Aircraft and Navy ships sprayed biological agents that did cause deaths.

01:08:06.000 That's mainstream news.

01:08:07.000 Details remain classified.

01:08:09.000 That's what was declassified in 77.

01:08:11.000 In the ship channel, you know, the Golden Gate Bridge area of San Francisco in 1949.

01:08:19.000 In 1968, time-release bio-agents were released on the New York subway at 9 a.m.

01:08:25.000 in the morning, in 1968.

01:08:27.000 Death resulted.

01:08:28.000 Army doctors were at nearby hospitals, quote, in residency in the months before so that they could chronicle for themselves what the effects were.

01:08:38.000 They have never told us what the biological agent was, only that it was a bacterium.

01:08:47.000 There's two famous examples.

01:08:48.000 I've interviewed a bunch of sailors and Air Force officers and I've interviewed British soldiers and whistleblowers and it's been in the BBC and AP and it's been everywhere that from the 1940s until 1985 Project Shad from Hawaii to Germany would have troops stand out in a field say in Wales and jets would fly over at 500 feet and spray a chemical weapon on them and troops would die on the spot and troops would die a week later and troops would die five years later and some are still alive.

01:09:16.000 Or they'd tell a young officer, you get an extra three-day leave if you sign in for a flu test.

01:09:23.000 We're going to spray you with flu and see, you know, it's for the country.

01:09:25.000 Then the guy signs in and they walk him in the chamber, hit him with VX nerve gas.

01:09:29.000 He dies.

01:09:30.000 They dissect the body.

01:09:33.000 Folks, there are thousands of these, literally.

01:09:36.000 Listen, I've read hundreds and hundreds and hundreds myself, okay?

01:09:40.000 And then I've looked at lists of thousands.

01:09:42.000 I cannot cover it all.

01:09:43.000 I would be here talking for eternity.

01:09:46.000 Two years ago, let's use a newer example.

01:09:49.000 It's in the Daily Oklahoma.

01:09:50.000 It's in the Oklahoma Papers that 5,000 pounds of Subtilis Globoge, a bacteria that can cause spontaneous abortions in all mammal mammalian species, and is listed by the federal government and the Army as dangerous, Was sprayed on every town and city over a one year period.

01:10:14.000 Five thousand pounds!

01:10:18.000 You'd read in the Daily Oklahoman, 5,000 pounds of Subtilis Globoge will be sprayed in hundreds of different operations by small fixed-wing aircraft over the next year by the Department of Homeland Security in a test of the wind patterns of a biological release.

01:10:31.000 It is completely safe.

01:10:32.000 Then you go read what Subtilis Globoge is.

01:10:36.000 It causes upper respiratory problems, abortions, blood infections, everything.

01:10:42.000 Just go look it up.

01:10:44.000 That's one more case of thousands.

01:10:46.000 White Rock, New Mexico sprang on and on and on and on. 0.98

01:10:51.000 Black men. 0.98

01:10:52.000 It first came out over 45 years that they just let them die of syphilis and spread it. 0.98

01:10:56.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:10:57.000 Now it's come out they gave it to them.

01:10:59.000 They've caught the U.N.

01:11:01.000 in over 100 countries with over 10 different manufacturers putting a pathogen hormone attached to the tetanus pathogen to sterilize women.

01:11:11.000 On and on and on.

01:11:13.000 Bayer, for over 10 years, knowingly knew their factor rate, every dose had AIDS in it and Hepatitis C, and that everyone was going to get it who took it.

01:11:22.000 And their own documents are now public, MSNBC. 0.90

01:11:26.000 It's all public, that they knowingly said, so what, let them die.

01:11:30.000 So I don't want to hear that the government wouldn't spray us with something, because I cannot even chronicle how many instances there are.

01:11:37.000 Now, let me add this, and we're going to flip our cardicom.

01:11:41.000 Who I am just so proud of.

01:11:43.000 He made a documentary.

01:11:44.000 He put it out for free.

01:11:45.000 They sell it for, he didn't even sell it for $2 a piece for shipping.

01:11:48.000 They stream it for free.

01:11:49.000 We got a link to it on Infowars.com.

01:11:50.000 That's when you care, folks.

01:11:53.000 I think you ought to charge a little more so you can have more funds to fund his operation.

01:11:56.000 But he's done some of the best research out there.

01:11:58.000 But C'est La Vie, he just gives it out for free.

01:12:01.000 Free stream of it.

01:12:02.000 And then you can also get it for the cost of shipping.

01:12:09.000 But before I go any further, there are nuts everywhere who point at every condensation trail and discredit all of us.

01:12:15.000 And say, that's a chemical trail, that's a chemical... No, no.

01:12:18.000 If they're spraying at 30,000 feet, all the evidence shows they're either hitting somebody 5-10,000 miles away where the jet stream comes down to ground...

01:12:27.000 Or, they are engaging in atmospheric manipulations, which we have documents on.

01:12:31.000 Weather control.

01:12:32.000 There's a bunch of different stuff going on.

01:12:34.000 People all try to say it's this or it's that.

01:12:36.000 No.

01:12:36.000 As usual, it's a cocktail of different operations.

01:12:39.000 But, we had reports before people ever heard of contrails in 1998-97, and I have people, I know people We have all seen this type of stuff go on.

01:12:48.000 This has been reported on.

01:12:49.000 There's a bunch of declassified instances of it.

01:12:51.000 So if they're going to spray your town, it's going to be from 2,000 feet or lower.

01:12:53.000 Wayne saw it while they were building a house out in Belton.

01:12:57.000 Flies over to school, sprays it, everybody gets sick, vomiting, diarrhea.

01:13:01.000 It was on national TV.

01:13:02.000 Remember that?

01:13:05.000 We have all seen this type of stuff go on.

01:13:07.000 This has been reported on.

01:13:08.000 There's a bunch of declassified instances of it.

01:13:10.000 So if they're going to spray your town, it's going to be from 2,000 feet or lower, normally 1,500 feet, helicopter and fixed wing.

01:13:18.000 And there is chemtrail spring.

01:13:19.000 I remember in 97, 98 it started.

01:13:22.000 Before anybody even had talked about it, I said, why do trails, and I never knew the answer, that used to disappear in a few seconds to a minute, why are they there four hours later?

01:13:32.000 Why do they all form a haze?

01:13:34.000 Now NASA admits the Earth is 20% darker than it was 30 years ago.

01:13:39.000 Now it's in mainstream government textbooks that they are spraying.

01:13:43.000 Joining us is Clifford Carnicom.

01:13:46.000 Sir, thank you for holding during that introduction.

01:13:49.000 We are so honored to have you.

01:13:50.000 Let me just give folks your bio.

01:13:52.000 Clifford Carnicom, who has been actively involved in bringing attention to the chemtrail phenomenon, has been a self-employed professional computer consultant for the past three years and now resides in Santa Fe, New Mexico with his wife Carol.

01:14:03.000 He is previously a research scientist and federal employee for 15 years with three different agencies, including the United States Department of Defense, the Bureau of Land Management, and the U.S.

01:14:11.000 Forest Service.

01:14:12.000 His technical background is extensive in the fields of Alex, thanks very much for the opportunity to be here.

01:14:20.000 I truly appreciate it.

01:14:21.000 of computer science and the physical sciences, and that's the bio from Coast to Coast AM.

01:14:26.000 Clifford Carnicom, again, thanks for joining us.

01:14:28.000 Alex, thanks very much for the opportunity to be here.

01:14:30.000 I truly appreciate it.

01:14:31.000 And I also thank you for establishing that precedent, as you did in that opening segment, which is very, very true.

01:14:39.000 And, you know, you referred to 1977, and I have a document that was given to me shortly after I started this research that is very clear documentation of the long history and litany of open air testing.

01:14:54.000 This particular document concerns congressional hearings that were held in 1977 that basically raise a question.

01:15:01.000 It's an acknowledgment that the U.S.

01:15:03.000 population has been openly tested and or experimented Or operated upon.

01:15:10.000 And U.S.

01:15:12.000 Code Title 50, Chapter 30... U.S.

01:15:14.000 Code Chapter 50... I've got to say this code real fast to be able to get it out right.

01:15:20.000 That's how my memory works.

01:15:21.000 U.S.

01:15:21.000 Code Title 50, Chapter 32, Subsection 1520A, Paragraph B says they're allowed to use lethal chemical, biological, or radiological agents on the American people for research.

01:15:33.000 Sorry.

01:15:34.000 And, you know, this is 30 years later, but the opening line of these hearings is just amazing to me, because it's basically unfortunate, but it appears that after 30 years there's been really no progress made.

01:15:46.000 I'd like to read just one sentence, if I can, in the opening line to these hearings.

01:15:50.000 It says, Recent revelations of similar open air testing in civilian areas have alarmed many people.

01:15:56.000 Their concern extends beyond the safety or hazards presented by the test organisms.

01:16:00.000 However, it goes to the heart of what a free society is all about.

01:16:04.000 Should a democratic people cede to its government the full responsibility of determining when secret tests on unwitting subjects are necessary to protect the nation's security?

01:16:15.000 That was Kennedy, back when Kennedy actually did some work in 1977.

01:16:20.000 And I really give him credit because he raised the fundamental issue, which is really the very same issue now.

01:16:27.000 And that is, what limit is there?

01:16:29.000 What threshold is there to the claim or guise of national security as a domain that is untouchable, no matter what the circumstances are?

01:16:42.000 And this is the world that we're in now.

01:16:44.000 National security is used as a defense, a hidden defense, As to any and all of these operations that the public has an obvious right to know, but are put under the cloak of supposedly protecting us.

01:16:57.000 And Kennedy nailed it 30 years ago in that statement.

01:17:01.000 Well, it's a blank check for total tyranny.

01:17:03.000 Oh, we're having no-bid contracts.

01:17:04.000 National security.

01:17:05.000 Oh, we're secretly arresting you.

01:17:07.000 National security. 0.98

01:17:07.000 We're going to spray bioweapons on you. 0.98

01:17:09.000 National security.

01:17:10.000 I mean, it's a perfect pretext for dictatorship.

01:17:13.000 It is, and I thank you for establishing precedent, because that's a good ground plane to start on, is for people to realize, you know, this is not something that needs to be imagined or constructed.

01:17:24.000 This is very real, has a long history.

01:17:26.000 What is different about this operation that I became involved in researching at the beginning of 1999... Is that it's so huge?

01:17:34.000 ...is the scale and magnitude of the operation, and also the arrogance, the scale and the arrogance of the operation.

01:17:40.000 And that is, we are now in a state of affairs where we have Open air testing on a global scale.

01:17:46.000 Direct lying about it from top officials.

01:17:50.000 United States Air Force lied early in the game.

01:17:52.000 Direct lie to the American public.

01:17:55.000 Uh, calling this a hoax without any real documentation of any kind to support their claim.

01:18:01.000 And the scale and arrogance and magnitude of the effect is what's different.

01:18:06.000 And that is important.

01:18:07.000 It's not the same as conducting some localized test for some defensive project.

01:18:12.000 This is open air operations.

01:18:15.000 It's not a test.

01:18:17.000 This thing is in place.

01:18:18.000 Our atmosphere has been changed.

01:18:21.000 This world has been changed.

01:18:24.000 It's not a matter of some little test pilot.

01:18:26.000 You are breathing an altered atmosphere now.

01:18:29.000 We all are.

01:18:30.000 I don't even know where to start, Clifford Carnicom.

01:18:34.000 Let's go through how you woke up and the different projects that are rolled in.

01:18:39.000 You mentioned the main focus of it, and I've done some of the similar research and looked at your research.

01:18:45.000 It does appear to be mainly an atmosphere alteration, but then there's some other operations going on too.

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01:23:06.000 Welcome back ladies and gentlemen.

01:23:07.000 Clifford Carnicom is our guest talking about chemtrails.

01:23:10.000 There's only one part of the chemical biological testing going on against us.

01:23:14.000 I would say that it's kind of a dual axis.

01:23:16.000 We've got Everything happening in the air, in the water.

01:23:21.000 They poison the water, they poison the air.

01:23:22.000 They've been caught red-handed doing it.

01:23:24.000 They institutionalize what they're doing right in front of our faces many times.

01:23:28.000 It's the arrogance, the sodium fluoride, the stannous fluoride, and the rest of it, documented to be deadly poison.

01:23:34.000 But then you have the vaccines.

01:23:35.000 They're also poisoning you through those.

01:23:37.000 See, if they're admitted to have done all this horrible stuff in the past, how do you then now trust them to take your vaccines?

01:23:43.000 If one of the biggest pharmacological companies in the world, Bayer, would knowingly put AIDS virus in your drugs, knowingly, knowingly, and hepatitis C, knowingly, knowing it was in there, And still selling it, then what would the government and these other groups do?

01:23:59.000 So I don't want to hear it's too dastardly, too big.

01:24:01.000 Clifford Carnicom, how did you wake up to this, and then get into the atmosphere manipulation, and then shift into the biological effects of that, and then the biological effects of the other spring we know is going on?

01:24:12.000 My work started at the very beginning of 1999, Alex, in February, and we go outside quite a bit.

01:24:20.000 My wife and I go camping quite a bit, and I have a background that's outdoors quite a bit.

01:24:24.000 And I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is a high desert region.

01:24:28.000 Certainly one of the classic regions for high desert, blue skies, just beautiful vistas.

01:24:34.000 Many artists live here because of that.

01:24:37.000 And so it's actually an ideal laboratory for a person who wants to be in a certain place to examine this issue.

01:24:43.000 And February 14th, it was Valentine's Day, was the day that I actually started to work.

01:24:50.000 And it had been preceded by several weeks of noticing a pattern That we would head out on our trips for the morning of the weekend.

01:24:58.000 It would look absolutely beautiful when we would wake up.

01:25:00.000 Very typical weather conditions for the high desert southwest.

01:25:03.000 And then we'd have breakfast and about an hour and a half later we'd go out.

01:25:06.000 And the weather had completely changed.

01:25:09.000 And that was acting really at a subconscious level for two to three weeks.

01:25:12.000 And then on that February 14th, I was out the door.

01:25:16.000 At the time it was still perfectly blue and this aircraft went directly overhead.

01:25:21.000 And what was different this time is I just watched.

01:25:23.000 I'm sure it was being triggered at a subconscious level, but this time I just stood and I just watched.

01:25:29.000 And I watched the transition take place for the first time.

01:25:32.000 And the amazing thing is that a major transition can actually take place at about a half hour of time if the operation is large enough.

01:25:40.000 So you can completely transform the atmosphere in a regional area in a fairly short period of time.

01:25:45.000 You can watch a clear sky be totally filled with these trails that just stay there.

01:25:51.000 Oh, I've counted in a couple times.

01:25:53.000 I have counted over 100 passes.

01:25:56.000 You can't say individual aircraft, but over 100 passes within a two-hour period.

01:26:01.000 They just blanket the sky and completely alter it.

01:26:04.000 And so I started taking photographs and showed that progression for the very first time.

01:26:09.000 That you had an unnatural situation that was taking place.

01:26:13.000 And I simply opened the door by posting the photographs on the website and really just raised the issue.

01:26:18.000 I mean, that's sort of my style.

01:26:20.000 I wasn't trying to... I knew it was wrong.

01:26:22.000 At a gut level, I knew it was wrong.

01:26:24.000 At the very least, you would call this a question of pollution.

01:26:28.000 And the website started, and at that point, it was fairly clear, very soon, that there was an interest in my work by military, industrial, chemical, pharmaceutical, medical, chemical complex.

01:26:45.000 Very shortly after, you would find out.

01:26:47.000 I was just an individual, really, a pretty low-key person.

01:26:50.000 I was a quiet and conservative federal employee.

01:26:52.000 They were living on your website.

01:26:54.000 But I was drawing attention very early in the game because my work is more of an analytical nature, that's for sure.

01:27:00.000 It's observation and analysis, that's my background.

01:27:04.000 Then it started from there, and from that point on, I started my work and ended up I've spent a probably good six years.

01:27:10.000 The past year I have not been actively involved in research because I've reached really thresholds of what I can do.

01:27:16.000 It does look like there's another subject I'm going to be getting involved in.

01:27:19.000 But there are literally thousands of pages I would assume that I have written now over six years and devoted pretty much my entire life.

01:27:26.000 to this issue, to basically call alarm.

01:27:29.000 That was my purpose, to call alarm.

01:27:31.000 This is not something that is solved by a person.

01:27:34.000 This is not something you look for.

01:27:35.000 Yeah, certainly.

01:27:36.000 You're just alerting people to something strange going on.

01:27:38.000 So, when did this start?

01:27:40.000 For me, I mean, for me, about 97, 98, I began to notice the trails that disappeared within a minute maximum would be there four or five hours later.

01:27:48.000 Clear skies would be turned into these trails that just expanded and merged.

01:27:54.000 And then NASA comes out and says, suddenly the Earth is 20% darker.

01:27:57.000 Just on the weather control angle of this, what's going on?

01:28:01.000 Well, I did want to mention, as you said, there's a lot of things to this, and it's very true.

01:28:07.000 And people do have a tendency to, I would say, either simplify it or avoid it, because it's too complex.

01:28:13.000 Either or.

01:28:15.000 And it is a complex issue, and over a period of six, seven years, I have evolved to where there's about seven areas that I think are involved in this subject.

01:28:24.000 Well, let's run through the gamut, run the gauntlet, with you on the other side, Clifford Carnicom.

01:28:29.000 Website's Carnicom.com.

01:28:30.000 We have a link to it up on InfoWars.com.

01:28:33.000 Just vital information that this man has done.

01:28:36.000 So many other great researchers, but he was the trailblazer.

01:28:39.000 We'll be right back.

01:28:42.000 We're on the march, the empire's on the run.

01:28:46.000 Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

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01:31:56.000 This show is documented.

01:31:59.000 Alex Jones, on the GCN Radio Network.

01:32:04.000 Bottom line, we know that condensation trails, growing up my entire life, my father's wife, I've talked to grandparents when jet travel first began, trails always disappear within a minute.

01:32:18.000 My entire life, and then suddenly the late 90's, they began to just hang there, expand, grow, So, is the government blocking out the evil radiation from the sun?

01:32:29.000 Or are they engaging in mass inoculations? 0.96

01:32:32.000 You know, all these things have been said.

01:32:33.000 Are they poisoning us?

01:32:35.000 Well, we know in the past they have killed American citizens on purpose with admitted biological testing. 0.74

01:32:41.000 And then we have all the admissions of low-altitude spraying.

01:32:45.000 Clifford Carnicom, walk through the seven different areas of your research and what you know, what you've tested.

01:32:52.000 Break it down for us, sir.

01:32:54.000 Thanks, Alex.

01:32:55.000 This list was five up to about a year ago, and there's been two added that I haven't really written up, but I've added them to the list.

01:33:01.000 Some of these can be shown to exist, at least with the best evidence we can.

01:33:06.000 Some of them exist strictly through analysis.

01:33:09.000 Basically, in my case, I have to look at the data and ask, what would you do if this set of data exists?

01:33:16.000 What does that data portend, basically?

01:33:19.000 And so, I wouldn't call it conjecture by any means, but it's definitely a process of analysis.

01:33:24.000 The seven areas would be as follows.

01:33:25.000 The first would be, and I would say that all of these, I would call them areas of operation that are consistent with all of the data that has been collected over seven years.

01:33:35.000 They do not exist individually, they exist simultaneously.

01:33:41.000 First one would be environmental modification and control, actually modifying our world in terms of its environment and weather.

01:33:41.000 They are.

01:33:48.000 This would be the simplest and the easiest probably to understand and demonstrate.

01:33:52.000 The second would be the conduct of biological operations, using particulates as a transport medium for biological materials.

01:34:04.000 The third would be the application and use of electromagnetic operations, the transmission and propagation and manipulation of energy, electromagnetic energy, within a modified atmospheric environment.

01:34:21.000 Let's see, the easiest analogy there would be the ionosphere.

01:34:25.000 Think of the conditions of the ionosphere at altitude, which... Some type of conductivity for HAARP or something?

01:34:33.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:34:34.000 That medium, think of that medium of the ionosphere being brought to a lower level around the Earth, basically.

01:34:41.000 We can talk about each of these in more detail.

01:34:43.000 The fourth would be military operations.

01:34:47.000 Defense, military, offensive, defensive military operations.

01:34:50.000 HAARP is certainly a main player.

01:34:52.000 If you look at the At the thesis and patent of the HAARP facility, it fits like a glove with the actual data that exists for us now.

01:35:03.000 The fifth is a little bit more esoteric, but still quite feasible to me.

01:35:07.000 This would be one based on analysis.

01:35:09.000 And that is a geophysical modification.

01:35:13.000 Actually, the consideration of whether the planet itself, I'm not talking about just the atmosphere, But the geophysics of the earth, you would be talking about rotation, rotation of the earth, geophysical processes, tectonic, these types of things.

01:35:29.000 And that may sound a little bit stretched for some folks, but the data actually suggests that such things could indeed be feasible to do.

01:35:38.000 The last two are additions over the last year, which have not been written up.

01:35:43.000 Number six would be surveillance.

01:35:47.000 A surveillance operation.

01:35:49.000 The idea there being, you know, most of us are familiar with radar, and radar is when you send a radio wave out and it bounces off of something, comes back, and tells you something's there.

01:36:00.000 Well, what's interesting is radar works because the objects that you're detecting are of a certain size.

01:36:06.000 It has to do with the wavelength of what you're sending out.

01:36:08.000 It has to match what it is you're looking for.

01:36:10.000 So, radio works with radar for airplanes and big objects.

01:36:14.000 But there is an alternative method of detection that involves light waves.

01:36:21.000 And the wavelength of light waves is extremely small, very small.

01:36:26.000 And in fact, it's at the same size as the particles that we're speaking of that compose these operations that are being introduced.

01:36:35.000 So it's quite feasible that you actually could develop a surveillance system That would, instead of being able to track large objects, such as planes and boats and this type of thing, could track literally down to the microscopic level.

01:36:51.000 Well that, I mean in the public admissions about HAARP, they say that it was designed to see tiny objects over the horizon.

01:37:00.000 Exactly true.

01:37:02.000 Exactly true.

01:37:02.000 The HAARP patent is just, it's just for, I've spent some time with that patent.

01:37:06.000 And I didn't really know a lot about it when I started, but I sort of dug into that on a technical side, and I'll tell you, the overlap is just tremendous.

01:37:15.000 Now that's all the science on the end of it.

01:37:18.000 Studying this, looking at it, just speaking on your opinion, what do you think they're doing?

01:37:26.000 Number one, what is this doing to the atmosphere?

01:37:28.000 What changes have we seen that can then point us towards what their goals may be?

01:37:37.000 The actual materials that are being identified over and over and over are what you would call ionizing salts.

01:37:45.000 It's a very specific category of physics, and yet extremely important.

01:37:50.000 The best explanation for what can physically transform the atmosphere in the way that they have is through the introduction of ionizable metallic salts.

01:38:01.000 Now, what does that mean?

01:38:02.000 And also of an extremely small size, down to submicron level.

01:38:07.000 Is it that similar to the nuclei they use to weather control?

01:38:12.000 You mean for cloud seeding?

01:38:13.000 Yes, yes.

01:38:14.000 Well, I would suspect, you know, if we looked into the cloud seeding, and I could be mistaken, but I suspect the particles that we're dealing with would be a magnitude.

01:38:22.000 Those are crystals we're talking about, you know, in a conventional sense.

01:38:25.000 The size of these is so incredibly small.

01:38:27.000 A sub-micron of human hair is 60 to 100 microns.

01:38:31.000 Bacteria are on the order of 10 microns.

01:38:33.000 What I'm speaking of is on the order of a submicron most likely.

01:38:38.000 So the size of what you're talking about is truly a unique, let's say represents a truly unique opportunity for physical change in terms of how clouds form and this type of thing.

01:38:48.000 Okay, please continue.

01:38:50.000 But this business of ionization appears to be extremely important.

01:38:53.000 The materials that are being found, specific ones would be calcium, magnesium, and barium.

01:38:59.000 My tests have repeatedly shown these.

01:39:02.000 Barium is of tremendous concern here because it is a highly toxic element in soluble form.

01:39:09.000 It's quite on par with arsenic in terms of its toxicity in soluble form.

01:39:15.000 And what I'm speaking of would be in soluble form because you're talking about clouds and moisture.

01:39:20.000 These particular elements, calcium, barium, and magnesium, with special emphasis upon calcium and barium.

01:39:30.000 These materials have a really unique property in that if you subject them to the energy that is available in sunlight, both visible light and ultraviolet light, particularly the ultraviolet light portion of the spectrum, basically the energy within sunlight is sufficient to cause these materials to become electrically charged.

01:39:49.000 That's what ionized means.

01:39:51.000 An ion is an electrically charged material.

01:39:54.000 If you can ionize a material and throw electrons into a gas, namely the air.

01:40:02.000 Now we're talking about a very open door in terms of the physics of what you have created.

01:40:08.000 There is a word called plasma, and many of us are familiar with a neon light tube, this type of thing.

01:40:14.000 A neon light tube is filled with gas, and yet what happens?

01:40:18.000 You send energy from point A to point B, you create light.

01:40:23.000 That same idea is what I'm talking about here.

01:40:25.000 It is quite conceivable and appears to be the end goal, certainly what Harp explicitly describes, is that if you can increase the electron density in the atmosphere, you can create what is called a plasma.

01:40:40.000 And a plasma is an electrically conductive gas.

01:40:44.000 If you create an electrically conductive gas, In my mind, it's literally an open door towards the transmission and control and manipulation of energy in that environment.

01:40:59.000 We're talking about electromagnetic energy, ELF energy.

01:41:03.000 The wavelength that our bodies work upon is 0 to 100 Hertz, ELF energy.

01:41:10.000 Over and over and over, I have detected the presence of It appears clearly artificial.

01:41:14.000 There's no explanation I can come for it in a natural sense at all.

01:41:18.000 This is stepped intervals of 4 Hertz.

01:41:21.000 Artificial energy at the ELF level.

01:41:25.000 These are the waves that our bodies work at, our brains work at, our minds work at.

01:41:32.000 So everything to me says that a grand design behind this project is to, and has been, to create a altered atmosphere that is now usable for the transmission, let's say enhanced transmission and propagation of electromagnetic energy,

01:41:58.000 a component of which includes ELF energy. a component of which includes ELF energy.

01:42:02.000 ELF energy can be used to store, if you pump it like a Tesla would deal with its resonance If you pulse ELF energy, you can store tremendous amounts of energy at the level of a geophysical weapon.

01:42:18.000 There's something called a heave weapon.

01:42:19.000 If you read that Hart Report, there's something called a heave weapon.

01:42:22.000 A heave weapon is where you actually lift up the magnetic field of the Earth, and it is equivalent in energy as well as apparently effect.

01:42:31.000 To the types of things you would see with an atomic bomb, with the advantage that you don't actually detonate anything.

01:42:37.000 I mean, it's really pretty astounding.

01:42:39.000 So it's an invisible weapon where you can basically kill all the life of an entire region if you wish?

01:42:44.000 Yes.

01:42:44.000 You know, this is not something I'm making up.

01:42:46.000 This is something I study.

01:42:47.000 That's what my work is.

01:42:48.000 No, I understand.

01:42:49.000 I've seen those federal documents.

01:42:50.000 And going back to tectonic weapons that you mentioned earlier, we have Secretary of Defense Cohen.

01:42:57.000 Back in 97, giving a speech about tectonic earthquake type, volcanic type weapons.

01:43:06.000 And then expanding on that, to just show the craziness of people running things.

01:43:10.000 They've used tens of thousands of tons of depleted uranium.

01:43:16.000 All over the world, knowing that the radiation detectors are picking up higher levels and that the particulates are very bad for all of us.

01:43:22.000 We know they tested hundreds.

01:43:24.000 Our own government did a high-altitude test of nuclear weapons back in the 60s.

01:43:28.000 So we know that they do things that are very bad for the environment on a routine basis.

01:43:32.000 Publicly, I've read that these different salts, these different chemicals that are in the air are also very bad for human tissues.

01:43:41.000 In numerous ways.

01:43:42.000 I mean, you can just take it on a physical level first, just the mechanical side.

01:43:46.000 There's a direct link between increased mortality and increased particulate count.

01:43:51.000 You can get this from the American Lung Association, whatever.

01:43:54.000 This is all over the place.

01:43:55.000 John Hopkins.

01:43:57.000 If you breathe more particles, more of you will die.

01:44:01.000 That's just the mechanics of it.

01:44:03.000 Then you have to raise the question of, well, what exactly are these particles?

01:44:07.000 What are they composed of?

01:44:08.000 And what might they carry?

01:44:09.000 Well, certainly if the compounds are barium, soluble barium compounds, those guys are toxic, highly toxic.

01:44:20.000 And then if you extend this on to the piggyback or transport mechanism, which is also exemplified in HAARP, Then you open up another hole.

01:44:32.000 What's the main way of distribution?

01:44:34.000 I mean, a lot of times it's these unmarked white airplanes that have been photographed at weird U.S.

01:44:39.000 bases out in Arizona and Indiana and all over the country.

01:44:43.000 We know that's going on, but sometimes it's the passenger jets.

01:44:46.000 Is this being mixed with fuel?

01:44:48.000 What's the main delivery mode for this?

01:44:50.000 Yeah, these are good questions.

01:44:52.000 You know, I once did a talk up there in Taos, New Mexico, and I started right at the beginning.

01:44:56.000 I said, folks, sorry.

01:44:58.000 But the main questions you want, the five W's, who, what, when, where, why, whatever, you're not going to get a simple direct answer.

01:45:04.000 We don't have it, unfortunately.

01:45:06.000 You're dealing with observations that have to be taken by citizens on the ground, because there is no forthcoming information on this whatsoever.

01:45:14.000 Now, that being said, I will say this.

01:45:18.000 There are many individuals that have stated that these planes are a certain type of plane, say a military tank or this type of thing.

01:45:25.000 There are people that have said commercial aircraft, it's a joke to think that they are even remotely involved in this.

01:45:33.000 What I do is I just collect the data and if you look at my early work, the early work for the first year or two was nothing more than collecting photographs, almost entirely.

01:45:43.000 I focused on getting images.

01:45:45.000 And I would post these images, the best that I could get with telescopic images, telephoto images, and post them, and ask the question, what type of plane is this?

01:45:55.000 What are we dealing with?

01:45:57.000 And all I will say, if you look at the photographs that I have taken, some of them which are truly remarkable, in that they clearly show emissions from the entire wingspan.

01:46:07.000 I have five of these, very good examples.

01:46:10.000 They show emissions across the entire wingspan, a continuous stream.

01:46:14.000 It doesn't come from the engines in that case.

01:46:16.000 I'm not saying in all cases at all.

01:46:18.000 But I do believe there have been different methods that have been used and experimented upon or tried.

01:46:24.000 But in that case, it doesn't even come from the engines.

01:46:26.000 If you look at those aircraft and you identify them, all I can say is they are commercial type aircraft.

01:46:34.000 In those that I have programmed, I'm not saying they're commercial aircraft because I can't see.

01:46:39.000 I can't see the people.

01:46:40.000 I can't see the markings with my equipment.

01:46:42.000 They are commercial type equipment.

01:46:46.000 And I will clearly say that the evidence actually strongly, more than strongly, implicates the involvement and collusion and incorporation of the commercial airline industry within this operation.

01:47:02.000 Let me add something here.

01:47:04.000 I have seen one jet flying at the same altitude, just a few miles away, here in Austin, not leaving trails that stay there for an hour or two, or leaving no trail at all, and right next to it a jet leaving a trail that's there three hours later.

01:47:21.000 Now, what does that say?

01:47:23.000 Yeah, you know, the classic arguments against these, and I'm familiar with most of them, but, you know, people will say, oh, you know, the planes are operating two different altitudes and the atmospheric conditions are different.

01:47:33.000 Sorry, folks, it just doesn't hold.

01:47:35.000 Anybody that digs into this seriously will see that, you know, the conditions that you're describing there are not at variance enough to describe the tremendous difference in what Alex is speaking of right now.

01:47:46.000 Well, I know what happened.

01:47:47.000 I mean, in the late 90s, Contrails went from lasting 30 seconds on average, maybe a minute and a half, to being there for hours.

01:47:55.000 Now I want to know, I mean, could this be some type of resonant energy in the atmosphere that just makes normal condensation trails behave differently?

01:48:06.000 Now what happens, to the best of my knowledge, Alex, is this.

01:48:10.000 in terms of the physics of what's going on.

01:48:12.000 When you ask, you ask the question, how could you have a, I can't call them clouds, because they're not really clouds anymore, but let's use that term for right now.

01:48:21.000 Let's say you have a bank, a bank or layer at 35,000 to 40,000 feet.

01:48:25.000 The region that was traditionally home to thin, high cirrus clouds, wispy clouds, and they would subsequently develop into fuller cloud forms that would descend to lower altitudes.

01:48:38.000 But the high altitudes, 35,000 feet, were reserved primarily for thin, wispy clouds and not a whole lot more.

01:48:44.000 You have to ask the question, how at 35,000 to 40,000 feet could you have a continuous thick layer start to develop?

01:48:52.000 And it is with the introduction of the salt, a certain type of salt, not just any salt.

01:48:57.000 But if you introduced a salt that can absorb moisture when the humidity is roughly 30-35%, which there are certain salts that do that, the type that I'm speaking of, now you change things because now you're able to collect and absorb moisture on extremely small particles.

01:49:16.000 And let's talk about clouds for a second, because let's talk about a difference between two things.

01:49:21.000 Contrails, if you look at what a contrail is, contrails form, it's, you know, what happens when you breathe on a cold winter day, right?

01:49:30.000 Stay there, we'll have to talk about it when we get back.

01:49:32.000 We're up against a break.

01:49:33.000 Clifford Carner comes, our guest.

01:49:35.000 This is such an important subject, because things have changed in our atmosphere.

01:49:39.000 There have been atmospheric changes to the planet.

01:49:43.000 The laws that we knew before, it seems, have been suspended.

01:49:47.000 And I've seen these trails down low.

01:49:50.000 We'll be right back.

01:49:55.000 It's here.

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01:52:47.000 Coming up in the next hour, we're going to open the phones up specifically on chemical, biological, radiological testing on the American people, namely the chemtrails, the Clifford radiological testing on the American people, namely the chemtrails, the Clifford Carnicum, the He'll be with us for a half hour taking calls, and in the last half hour I'll get into some of the new news coming out over in Israel and some of the domestic police state issues.

01:53:16.000 Before we go back to Clifford Carnicom, let me give you the number.

01:53:20.000 It's 1-800-259-9231 if you want to join us on air.

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01:54:04.000 This is such an important film, Terror Storm, you need to have it.

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01:55:00.000 Alright, let's go back to Clifford Carnicom.

01:55:02.000 Clifford, we don't have a lot of time left.

01:55:04.000 It's going by so fast and I appreciate you joining us.

01:55:08.000 Not only is there the harp effects of weapons or manipulation or conductivity of so many different things, anti-personnel on multiple levels, but it seems to be associated with weather modification.

01:55:24.000 When big storms are coming in for sure, you see these jets coming in even lower.

01:55:28.000 I mean, I've seen trails getting laid down at 10, 15, 5000 feet.

01:55:32.000 Which I never saw before in the past, in front of the storms, knocking them out, stopping them.

01:55:37.000 A lot of researchers have pointed that out.

01:55:38.000 So can you comment on some of the other aspects of this?

01:55:42.000 I'd say that's absolutely true, what you're saying there.

01:55:44.000 Did you want me to elaborate on that part or go on to the other areas?

01:55:47.000 Any area you think is important, I'm willing to elaborate.

01:55:50.000 First would be to corroborate and confirm what it is you're saying there.

01:55:53.000 There clearly is a very definite association with weather fronts in terms of these operations.

01:56:01.000 Moisture is absolutely being altered.

01:56:04.000 Moisture patterns.

01:56:06.000 You know, the claim that these are benevolent operations has just never worked from the data side.

01:56:12.000 If I could see that in the data, I would raise that scenario, but it doesn't fit.

01:56:17.000 Everything here shows a covert operation, which has a malevolent effect on both the planet as well as those who live upon it.

01:56:28.000 Moisture is being altered.

01:56:30.000 Storm systems are being affected and manipulated.

01:56:35.000 And, you know, it's a real curious thing, but if you actually look into the explanations, they don't make any sense at all in terms of what's offered here.

01:56:41.000 They'll say that these things are being conducted during times of high humidity.

01:56:46.000 I've looked at the humidity here, and I've looked at it up high, with all the balloons.

01:56:50.000 I've looked at it all the way up to 50,000, even 100,000, whatever those balloons go, 65,000 feet.

01:56:55.000 We do not have high humidity up there, and the lies that are being put forth about supposedly this is happening in a high humidity environment, it doesn't hold water at all.

01:57:06.000 And as a matter of fact, talking about association with storms, I did quite a bit of work to actually try and determine what is the pattern?

01:57:14.000 When are these planes coming in?

01:57:16.000 And something happened that I didn't even expect, actually.

01:57:19.000 Stay right there, we've got a break.

01:57:20.000 Tell us about that.

01:57:21.000 When we get back, because this is important, and I want to talk about Ben Livingston's research, the father of modern weather weapons.

01:57:28.000 Oh yeah, he's got some comments.

01:57:32.000 If you would like a copy of this show, come to GCNlive.com and reserve it today, or call toll free 877-376-45.

01:57:37.000 877-376-45.

01:57:41.000 Big Brother.

01:57:49.000 Mainstream media.

01:57:52.000 Government cover-ups.

01:57:53.000 You want answers?

01:57:55.000 Well, so does he.

01:57:56.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

01:58:01.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

01:58:05.000 He made a very powerful film, Aerosol Crimes and Cover-Up.

01:58:11.000 Put it out for free on chemtrails.

01:58:14.000 One large part of the manipulation of our environment, the poisoning of the population, Your calls are coming up in the next segment at 1-800-259-9231.

01:58:24.000 Clifford Carnicom, Ben Livingston flew into hurricanes, he flew into the even bigger storms they have in the Pacific, the typhoons.

01:58:39.000 He, uh, Stanford Research Facility certified his work for the Navy.

01:58:43.000 He was the head of their big weapons research facility that they were able to kill and knock down hurricanes in the late 60s.

01:58:50.000 But then our government says, oh, they know nothing about it and there's nothing they can do about hurricanes.

01:58:54.000 So we know they're being secretive.

01:58:56.000 If they can knock down hurricanes, We also know that they can empower and increase the power of hurricanes.

01:59:02.000 Livingston over Vietnam, with just a few planes, would take tiny clouds and cause ten feet of rain to fall, flooding people on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

01:59:11.000 So we know they can manipulate the weather, even with seeding technologies.

01:59:15.000 You add into this other technologies, it's powerful.

01:59:19.000 What do they appear to be doing with these chemical sprays with the weather?

01:59:25.000 What does their goal appear to be?

01:59:27.000 Well, I think from a military perspective, certainly if one has the ability to control or manipulate the weather, that's a huge military advantage.

01:59:42.000 And you said that you were shocked.

01:59:44.000 You said that you were shocked when you did some observations of when the planes came in.

01:59:48.000 Well, I think this would come to a surprise to many people, but if you actually look at the data, if you find a paper I wrote called Ions and Humidity, The big surprise to me here is that the timing of these operations actually occurs, appears to occur most likely, when the humidity is at, and I have to use the word, a local minimum.

01:59:48.000 Tell us about that.

02:00:05.000 What this means is low relative to before and after.

02:00:09.000 It doesn't mean in absolute sense low.

02:00:11.000 It means relative to what's happening before and to what's to transpire afterwards.

02:00:16.000 If you find these points, what you call a local minimum of humidity, this appears to be the most likely time that these operations are coming in.

02:00:24.000 That actually makes sense if you look at what's going on with what you're talking about.

02:00:28.000 That is the most advantageous time to come in.

02:00:32.000 It's right before the storm, not during the storm, but right before it comes in.

02:00:37.000 And I'm talking, my work will show a period of several hours, basically a window of two to three hours.

02:00:42.000 You can see that it is timed to get in there right at this absolute maximum advantage point of getting these particles in before the moisture comes in.

02:00:53.000 And I believe that would be so you would have maximum absorption basically.

02:00:57.000 In your six, seven years studying this, is it getting more frequent?

02:01:02.000 Are the operations intensifying globally, nationally?

02:01:08.000 I would say the operation is full in effect.

02:01:12.000 This thing is in effect.

02:01:13.000 The change has been made.

02:01:15.000 And whether you want to call it a maintenance or a status quo, it would appear to me that we have a certain concentration level.

02:01:23.000 That needs to be maintained at this point.

02:01:26.000 Certainly, and there also appears to be something seasonal that goes on.

02:01:30.000 The BBC, and I know you saw it, had a big photograph from space of England completely covered with what it called condensation trails, and then in the article it went on to say that NASA says the Earth is 20% darker, and then just put that there, didn't make any connection to condensation trails, just had that in the space photograph.

02:01:49.000 Absolutely, and one of the tests that I did was that straightforward.

02:01:52.000 I made what's called a photometer, a calibrated photometer, and it's a simple, straightforward test, but you had a perfectly blue, clear sky.

02:02:00.000 They came in with an, you know, and you have a certain light level.

02:02:03.000 The planes came in, and in an hour to two hours, had completely transformed the sky.

02:02:09.000 I conducted these tests, and there was a 20 cent per reduction.

02:02:13.000 I mean, it's a straight physical thing.

02:02:15.000 You are affecting the energy and light that's affecting the Earth.

02:02:18.000 But you did see the NASA report that the Earth is now 20% darker than it was 30 years ago.

02:02:22.000 That's right, I have.

02:02:23.000 That's right.

02:02:24.000 And look at the photograph that NASA touts there as being what they call clutter.

02:02:29.000 They call it contrail clutter.

02:02:31.000 It's absolutely hilarious to think that these things would be forced to... Yeah, they show the U.S.

02:02:36.000 and it's a spider web and they didn't do that until six, seven years ago.

02:02:40.000 Something has changed.

02:02:41.000 Stay with us.

02:02:41.000 This call's coming up.

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02:04:42.000 This is Jack Blood with the Genesis Radio Network.

02:04:47.000 I have an urgent message for all of our listeners.

02:04:49.000 The mass media keeps telling us that we are the richest, most powerful economy in the world.

02:04:56.000 If this is true, why can't we pay our bills?

02:04:59.000 Why is the United States the world's largest debtor nation?

02:05:04.000 The truth is that we are in the worst debt bubble in our nation's history.

02:05:09.000 When the bubble bursts, will you be able to feed your family?

02:05:13.000 When the inevitable crash occurs, will you be ready?

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02:05:31.000 debt bubble, red alert, and real estate crash.

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02:05:42.000 Big Brother.

02:05:50.000 Mainstream media.

02:05:52.000 Government cover-ups.

02:05:54.000 You want answers?

02:05:55.000 Well, so does he.

02:05:56.000 He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

02:06:01.000 And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.

02:06:06.000 I will repeat, the government has declassified the fact that they, over 3,000 times from the 40s to the 70s, spread chemical, biological, and radiological weapons and other mixes on the American people.

02:06:19.000 They do it all the time now.

02:06:22.000 AIDS virus, Hepatitis C, knowingly on purpose in the drugs, hundreds and hundreds of other examples I don't have time to get into.

02:06:28.000 Black men and syphilis, sterilizing 400,000 American women for no reason, on and on and on.

02:06:34.000 So you've got these Malthusian, Dr. Pionkian, remember the UT scientist who gets the 95% standing ovation saying he wants to kill everybody, Dr. Peter Singer, Prince Philip, Ted Turner, Prince Charles, the Club of Rome, these are Henry Kissinger documents, CIA, all public. 0.89

02:06:52.000 I've got to make a film about this, population reduction.

02:06:54.000 In fact, that's on the burner to do.

02:06:56.000 I just am so crazy busy all the time.

02:06:58.000 We're going to try to do it on my Bilderberg film that's coming out, whenever I get that done.

02:07:04.000 But this is the reality.

02:07:07.000 And so they are drying out the planet.

02:07:09.000 They are darkening the planet.

02:07:11.000 They are manipulating a whole bunch of stuff.

02:07:14.000 A whole bunch of key areas of our biosphere.

02:07:18.000 And then you've got all the low altitude spraying.

02:07:20.000 It's a whole other separate area.

02:07:21.000 Now Clifford Carnicom is with us for another 20 minutes and 30 seconds to be precise.

02:07:26.000 So let's go to your calls.

02:07:28.000 Please have your questions and comments to be brief so the next person gets time.

02:07:32.000 Dave in California.

02:07:34.000 Thanks for holding your on the air with Clifford Carnicom.

02:07:36.000 Thanks, Alex.

02:07:37.000 Hi, Mr. Carnicom, and thank you for everything you do.

02:07:39.000 I have two data points for you.

02:07:42.000 I live in the Pacific Northwest, and especially this last year, I've been watching very closely.

02:07:46.000 What we're seeing here is off the coast, at low level, we're seeing multiple laydowns just in front of the marine layer when it comes on shore in the afternoon and evening.

02:07:59.000 Always in front of wet weather storms, and just this last year was happening in front of every storm that we had, and we had 150% of rainfall this year.

02:08:09.000 That's number one.

02:08:10.000 And number two, and this is really disturbing to me, I've noticed that we don't see any insects around here anymore at all.

02:08:19.000 There was white light on all night, last night, outside, and I went and looked this morning.

02:08:23.000 There were two little moths and a couple of bugs circling the light.

02:08:27.000 This is an area that's a wilderness.

02:08:29.000 There's almost nobody living here.

02:08:31.000 This place should be swarming with bugs. 0.89

02:08:34.000 There are reports that in industrialized nations, insect levels are way down.

02:08:40.000 Let me get a comment from Clipper Carnicom.

02:08:43.000 I think good observations and exactly on mark, very much the case.

02:08:47.000 These operations are destroying these storms.

02:08:51.000 They're coming ahead of them and they're destroying the storms.

02:08:53.000 Are they trying to cause them to dump all their moisture before they get inland to the areas like Idaho and other areas?

02:08:59.000 I personally think that what you're actually doing is absorbing the energy from the storms and redirecting it.

02:09:06.000 In other words, trying to capitalize on that energy within a storm and to redirect it for other purposes.

02:09:12.000 What's the goal?

02:09:13.000 Why would they want to do this?

02:09:15.000 Energy is powerful.

02:09:16.000 Energy makes things happen.

02:09:17.000 If you can control energy, you can do things.

02:09:20.000 This is how weapons are created.

02:09:23.000 Directed energy weapons, ion weapons, plasma weapons.

02:09:27.000 Dave, I appreciate your call.

02:09:28.000 Great points.

02:09:28.000 We're going to have to move on.

02:09:30.000 Global warming.

02:09:31.000 We know that we're not really having global warming.

02:09:32.000 We're having global, very dangerous, fast-moving change.

02:09:39.000 Is what's happening.

02:09:40.000 Could the globalists be trying to create all sorts of climate shifts and huge disasters as a way to scare us into accepting this new global tax they're proposing through the global warming hysteria they're pushing?

02:09:54.000 Well, what I can say is they are happening.

02:09:56.000 It's hard for me to determine intent, but what I can say is what's happening.

02:10:01.000 You know, for a long time, you still find people, they're out there saying, this stuff is protecting the earth, and this is cooling the earth, and this is counteracting global warming.

02:10:01.000 And it is happening.

02:10:11.000 My work shows exactly the opposite.

02:10:13.000 If you look at the effects of these materials, the physics of these materials, it is expected It is expected that they heat up the earth.

02:10:22.000 Well, this is what I expect.

02:10:24.000 They dry it out and they heat it up.

02:10:26.000 They don't cool anything down.

02:10:27.000 They dry it up and they heat it up.

02:10:29.000 But if I had the power to manipulate the weather, I would have a federal bureau of it.

02:10:34.000 I would be announcing it.

02:10:36.000 I would be admitting it.

02:10:36.000 They have these technologies.

02:10:38.000 That's declassified.

02:10:39.000 But they cover them up and deny them.

02:10:42.000 That shows they don't want people looking at this.

02:10:44.000 Our government right now could have killed Hurricane Katrina and Rita.

02:10:47.000 Our government didn't.

02:10:48.000 The question is why?

02:10:51.000 Yeah, you know, it's a combination of both of these things.

02:10:53.000 Both as well as covering it out, as well as manipulating how it is released to the public.

02:10:58.000 You know, we're now at the point where you have a bill, and apparently this thing is just, you know, in position.

02:11:03.000 Yeah, the Weather Control Board, yeah.

02:11:05.000 Yeah, you have a bill on board to basically legalize that which is already being done upon us, which is the way this situation commonly works.

02:11:13.000 My senator, Kay Bailey, is pushing it.

02:11:15.000 Yeah.

02:11:16.000 So, I mean, that's there.

02:11:18.000 But then you tell the general public still they can control the weather.

02:11:20.000 They go, and I'm a little green man too.

02:11:23.000 Let's go ahead and talk to George in Indiana.

02:11:25.000 George, you're on the air.

02:11:27.000 Yeah, I live in central Indiana, and they seem to do all their spraying at night, because when I get up to that daybreak, I see them all in the air.

02:11:35.000 I mean, like, Wow, Grand Central Station in the sky, you see streams everywhere.

02:11:40.000 And it wasn't there seven, eight years ago, was it, George?

02:11:43.000 Oh no, I'm 57, and I do know, I don't know if it's just in my imagination, but it seems like the sun is a whole lot brighter than it was when I was a kid.

02:11:53.000 Well, that could be a lensing effect because of the atmospheric differential.

02:11:56.000 That's why the sun looks bigger on the horizon, because you're looking through the atmosphere at its thickest point over hundreds of miles, not just through the 20 miles straight up.

02:12:05.000 But what you just said is true.

02:12:07.000 NASA just announced that they thought the last 11 and a half year cycle was the biggest ever.

02:12:11.000 Now they're reporting the sun is on line to be 50% brighter in the next cycle.

02:12:16.000 Go ahead, Clifford Carnegie.

02:12:17.000 Well the UV, the ultraviolet indices are up.

02:12:20.000 It's so interesting, you can actually look at a lot of the popular claims that are out there and you can actually gauge that indeed it may be an intentional disinformation mode to do so because You know, they'll claim that this material is somehow there.

02:12:34.000 It's always somehow.

02:12:35.000 You know, the mechanics and physics are never really explained.

02:12:39.000 It's just somehow this has to be helping.

02:12:41.000 Clifford, before I forget, did you see the big write-up on the federally written textbook where they tell the kids that the government's putting a sunscreen up there to keep us safe?

02:12:49.000 I absolutely did.

02:12:50.000 I absolutely did.

02:12:51.000 Give us your take on that.

02:12:54.000 Manipulation, indoctrination, Influence in the population to accept a state of affairs as being normal.

02:13:04.000 That's a textbook being used nationwide, written by the government, that is used by 8th graders.

02:13:09.000 Yes.

02:13:10.000 Yes.

02:13:11.000 You know, I was at the bookstore just a couple weeks ago, and I go through meteorology books occasionally and such.

02:13:17.000 You have a meteorology book out there now, which has a whole new generation.

02:13:21.000 I'm not going to call them clouds.

02:13:23.000 I use three words.

02:13:24.000 I use contrails, clouds, and aerosols.

02:13:26.000 I actually don't use the word chemtrails.

02:13:28.000 In this meteorology book, you will find out an entire new generation of constructed forms.

02:13:35.000 And I won't even call them clouds, because they don't qualify.

02:13:38.000 They don't qualify.

02:13:39.000 They did not exist.

02:13:40.000 Go pick up the aviation charts, pre-90, and look at the cloud forms that are there in the textbooks.

02:13:47.000 Aviation books, meteorology books.

02:13:49.000 Go look at what's being described now to the kids in popular literature in terms of cloud types and infinite variations.

02:13:57.000 of things that have no physical basis unless you introduce a water-loving salt material that completely changes the dynamics and changes the atmosphere.

02:14:07.000 They're terraforming Earth to make it a desert planet, sir?

02:14:11.000 Well, it is what's happening.

02:14:14.000 We're being reverse terraformed.

02:14:20.000 Are you saying that's a good term?

02:14:22.000 All I can say is this material is locking up the moisture that would be going into our water table.

02:14:29.000 It is locking that moisture up.

02:14:31.000 And there is energy that is being held within those.

02:14:34.000 So is this the opposite of, say, taking Mars and making it green?

02:14:37.000 I'm saying, is this a type of terra-farming?

02:14:39.000 Well, it fits, Alex, I'll say that.

02:14:42.000 It fits if you're changing the climate of the Earth on a global level, and the water levels are being altered.

02:14:52.000 Then what is that other than, you know, I'm not going to say again, that's an intent, I can only go into it, but what's the result?

02:14:57.000 The result is, yes, A terraforming means changing the Earth, right?

02:15:02.000 Alright, let's take another call.

02:15:03.000 Thank you, George.

02:15:04.000 Tom in Texas, you're on the air.

02:15:05.000 Go ahead, Tom.

02:15:07.000 Yes, this is Tom in Texas, and I'd like to say I've been watching these since 1999.

02:15:11.000 I've made some personal observations over long periods of time.

02:15:14.000 I can tell you some of the places these planes fly in and out of.

02:15:18.000 As a matter of fact, I can tell you the fuel companies who contract to fuel them.

02:15:22.000 In Wichita, Kansas, I watched 40 modified KC-135s that have the, used to be a four-engine aircraft modified, but the two engines on the wing, the more powerful engine, come in and refueled by Grondike aircraft.

02:15:36.000 I've seen them at the Jinker Air Force Base, come in there as many as a dozen of them in three groups.

02:15:43.000 They seem to run in groups of 40.

02:15:45.000 Also in Lincoln, Nebraska, I've collected also the spiderweb residual after these things two years ago.

02:15:52.000 Are you a truck driver?

02:15:54.000 No, I'm not a truck driver.

02:15:55.000 This is Tom.

02:15:56.000 I'm just an observer, you might say.

02:15:58.000 I'm just wondering how you've been to all these places, you know.

02:16:01.000 Oh, well, I was at a funeral in Kansas when I observed these things, first of all.

02:16:05.000 Like I said, I've been watching them, so I did a little traveling to follow the ones that were going north and south.

02:16:10.000 They ended up in Lincoln, Nebraska, and they ended up in Tinker Air Force Base, the ones that were flying over Kansas.

02:16:16.000 Also, I've collected the residual aftermath of spiderweb stuff they speak of.

02:16:21.000 Two years ago here in Rockport, it snowed, and the day after, we had more of these spiderwebs dangling up.

02:16:29.000 I've collected some.

02:16:30.000 I've put them in vials.

02:16:31.000 Well, here's an example.

02:16:32.000 I was out at the Austin-Birchstrom Airport about five years ago, and I wasn't poo-pooing chemtrails, but I was poo-pooing the spiderwebs.

02:16:39.000 And I'm there, and under the streetlights, these giant, 20-foot wide, I was with Mike Hanson, spiderwebs are hitting us in the face, and it was coming off from the planes.

02:16:49.000 Clipper Carnicom, what are these spiderwebs?

02:16:51.000 Man, that's another whole story we could do another whole show on, but let's just say they're not spiderwebs.

02:16:57.000 They appear to be, well, there's big questions here, I'll tell you.

02:17:01.000 I can say that they are associated with biological operations and the research I've done there.

02:17:06.000 They are definitely not spiderwebs.

02:17:07.000 Well, I know that coming out three years ago, DARPA has told the Baltimore Sun that they may put up towers with electromagnetic fields to make us behave better.

02:17:20.000 Did you see that?

02:17:21.000 No, I didn't see that one, Alex.

02:17:23.000 Baltimore Sun, we're going to mind control you!

02:17:27.000 Okay, thank you, caller.

02:17:27.000 I'm sorry.

02:17:28.000 We'll come back in the final segment with Lever Carnarvon and talk to Eleanor and others that are patiently holding.

02:17:35.000 I mean, this is bizarre stuff going on, but everything's bizarre.

02:17:39.000 I mean, everything's crazy.

02:17:40.000 Hillary Clinton talking about them making us take brain chips.

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02:21:38.000 Arkansas residents at 8% sales tax.

02:21:44.000 Clifford Carnicom of Carnicom.com has graciously agreed to stay with us about five, ten minutes into the next segment, so we have plenty of time to take more calls.

02:21:59.000 Right now, before we go to Eleanor and, of course, Jack Blood, we're going to go to him as well here in just a moment.

02:22:04.000 I heard he's going to be calling in.

02:22:05.000 Let's talk to Danny in Florida, who says he's an airline pilot.

02:22:09.000 Danny, welcome to the airwaves.

02:22:10.000 You're on the air right now with Clifford Carnicom.

02:22:12.000 Alex.

02:22:14.000 I have two questions.

02:22:14.000 Hi.

02:22:15.000 The first one is, is it possible for normal airplane contrails to stay small and not because I've observed that phenomenon for over 30 years.

02:22:28.000 And the second question is, if they're using commercial airplanes, what would be the chemical they're adding to the jet fuel?

02:22:39.000 Is it possible for a contrail to stay?

02:22:42.000 Yes, as a matter of fact, if you look at a paper I did related to humidity, If the humidity is high enough, indeed, it's possible to linger essentially indefinitely.

02:22:53.000 Unfortunately, those conditions don't actually exist or occur too often.

02:22:57.000 Well, I just want to say, I had never seen it until the late 90s, and I know that if it's really, you know, a lot of humidity, it's cold, you can just get ice crystal trails up there as you know well, but you're a pilot.

02:23:07.000 And again, I'm not saying everything is a trail, every plane's doing it.

02:23:11.000 I'm saying there is some type of weird program going on from all the evidence we have.

02:23:15.000 I mean, you're a pilot, Danny, do you ever walk outside I agree.

02:23:18.000 Do you see days where it's nothing but trails and they're below 10,000 feet?

02:23:21.000 Because believe me, brother, I've taken photos of it.

02:23:24.000 I agree.

02:23:25.000 I've seen where the spraying and the trails spread and cover the whole sky.

02:23:32.000 But I've also seen days that are not very frequent where you'll have a small trail created and it'll just not dissipate, but it remains small.

02:23:43.000 Well, what do other airline pilots think about it?

02:23:46.000 What do you think about it? - I agree with you 100%.

02:23:51.000 There's a biological component to it, and there's a weather modification component to it.

02:24:00.000 In terms of the second question, in terms of the chemical, you'll notice I never use the word chemtrail because there's no real basis for that at this point.

02:24:07.000 What can be accurately assessed is that they are aerosols.

02:24:10.000 Certain elements have been repeatedly identified at ground level.

02:24:14.000 But it's really not quite fair to extrapolate that to the direct source until that's done properly.

02:24:20.000 But nevertheless, in terms of what compounds are there, it appears as though it would be feasible if the materials are small enough.

02:24:28.000 Again, we need the information here, but from my side, it appears as though it would be feasible if materials are small enough, and we are speaking at the submicron level, that a fuel system could be developed.

02:24:40.000 There is certainly strong evidence of delivery systems.

02:24:44.000 Uh, that, uh, have existed.

02:24:45.000 Uh, but in terms of the grand scale operation, we don't have a bird's eye view of the source, but it is feasible to me that at the sub-micron level you could be dealing with a... What about those photos?

02:24:55.000 Sure, what about the photos on the web we've seen?

02:24:58.000 Hold on, they have spray nozzles on them.

02:25:00.000 Are those real photos?

02:25:02.000 Are you speaking of my photos?

02:25:03.000 Well, I've just seen them on the web over the years.

02:25:05.000 Anybody, anybody that claims any photographs, uh, showing nozzles and such, uh, to me at this point They are totally inadequate until they are documented properly, and to me, I can't say I've seen that yet.

02:25:17.000 I'm not saying they're not, I'm just saying to me there is no sufficient evidence of direct eye-to-eye photography of source material.

02:25:25.000 Alright, Danny, you ever see anything really weird where you're flying right next to a plane, you're not leaving the trail, but they are?

02:25:33.000 No, I can't say that I have seen that, but I have seen, as you have Alex, the trails that start out small and spread and then cover the whole sky.

02:25:42.000 So they're definitely doing this.

02:25:43.000 Had you seen that before the late 90s?

02:25:46.000 No.

02:25:47.000 That's all I'm saying folks.

02:25:48.000 Something changed.

02:25:49.000 I don't know what it is.

02:25:50.000 Thank you for the call.

02:25:51.000 Let's go to Jack Blood.

02:25:53.000 Jack Blood hosts the show right after this one every day.

02:25:55.000 Jack, what's on your mind?

02:25:56.000 Hey Alex, thanks for having Clifford on the program with you today.

02:25:59.000 This really shows how brave you are, how brave Clifford is.

02:26:03.000 I wanted to ask a question about provocateurs because Clifford, I've used your information and a lot of my listeners have posted that on message boards.

02:26:10.000 We have been attacked by organized groups on the internet.

02:26:15.000 I don't want to mention any names.

02:26:16.000 We've also found that there is a key person at NASA who has nothing better to do than to scour the internet looking for people talking about this.

02:26:24.000 I've actually had, you know, violence, threats, I've had arson at my home for talking about this chemtrail situation, and specifically using your work.

02:26:33.000 So, I'd like to hear you, if you could, speak about the real movement to just shut us up, no matter what they have to do.

02:26:41.000 Anything happen to you like that, Jack Clifford?

02:26:45.000 How would we say this?

02:26:46.000 I have never been physically attacked, I would say that.

02:26:52.000 What he speaks of is very true, very accurate.

02:26:55.000 There are organized efforts at both containing this information so it only flows through certain channels in certain ways.

02:27:04.000 There are organized efforts to ridicule and discredit those who are attempting to pursue or promote an investigation on this issue.

02:27:14.000 The efforts to control this are very real.

02:27:19.000 I'll simply say I have not been physically attacked.

02:27:22.000 All right, Jack, anything else?

02:27:24.000 Proof that we're really on to something here.

02:27:26.000 They're trying to shut us up.

02:27:27.000 Hey, thank you guys for the work.

02:27:28.000 And Clifford, I'd love to have you on my show sometime.

02:27:30.000 All right, we'll be right back.

02:27:31.000 Final segment.

02:27:32.000 Clifford Conner, more calls.

02:27:35.000 We're on the march.

02:27:36.000 The Empire's on the run.

02:27:38.000 Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

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02:30:39.000 That's 1-800-845-3841.

02:30:42.000 He's the T-Rex of political talk.

02:30:47.000 Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.

02:30:50.000 work.

02:30:52.000 We've just got time for three more calls.

02:30:53.000 We've got to let our guest go, then I'm going to hit some other important news.

02:30:57.000 But before he leaves us, get your pens and paper ready, because in a few minutes he'll give you a toll-free number to get one of his documentary films at cost, or you can also watch it online for free.

02:31:06.000 We've got a link to it up on InfoWars.com right now.

02:31:06.000 It's all over the place.

02:31:10.000 Great guy.

02:31:12.000 Clifford Carnicom, what about the different weathermen?

02:31:14.000 There have been several meteorologists that have gone public, who work for TV stations, saying that they can clearly see the jets flying and blocking weather, and that they're seeing weather patterns that they've never seen in their careers, and in some cases, spanning decades, and then, you know, back to college, that there are new types of clouds, that new things are happening.

02:31:35.000 What's your take on their comments and what they bring to the plate?

02:31:38.000 Well, the physics of the atmosphere have been changed.

02:31:42.000 They've been altered.

02:31:43.000 So, the game is not really the same as we know it.

02:31:47.000 And, you know, the fascinating thing is that a child growing up now, you know, the question of what is normal comes up.

02:31:54.000 It's quite interesting, but a child growing up now would never even know or have the memories that we have as adults.

02:32:00.000 And this is now their frame of reference.

02:32:02.000 And, you know, history is written by the victors, that statement.

02:32:05.000 You can pretty much create whatever world you want.

02:32:08.000 My last question for you before we take three final calls is, getting outside the science, getting outside just your research, what do you, bottom line, think it's really all about?

02:32:17.000 What do you think the government is doing?

02:32:19.000 If I'm pressed to offer a single word that encapsulates and describes what I see happening here, I have to use the word control.

02:32:27.000 It's the best I can do.

02:32:29.000 For those that don't know, we are really a spaceship.

02:32:32.000 People go, a spaceship?

02:32:33.000 Yes.

02:32:34.000 We are a third planet from the sun, orbiting a standard sun, two-thirds of the way out on a spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy.

02:32:42.000 Life lives in a very thin little layer, really the first 10,000 feet of the atmosphere.

02:32:50.000 Above that you have major oxygen and narcosis problems.

02:32:54.000 Life lives in the first 10,000 feet, a very thin veneer around the globe, and weather manipulation is admitted, patented, documented.

02:33:03.000 The U.S.

02:33:03.000 government totally admits it.

02:33:06.000 And then there's all these other programs going on, so people need to stop denying this.

02:33:10.000 Yeah, you have it exactly right, Alex, and I really don't, you know, Al Gore in his film, at least to his credit, he did make a point of it.

02:33:20.000 And that is, I don't think people have any idea how fragile this atmosphere is.

02:33:25.000 It's an eggshell that's around us.

02:33:27.000 And we have changed it.

02:33:29.000 And I see it as a threat to the viability of this planet as a whole.

02:33:35.000 Well, the way I heard one biologist put it, we interviewed was, heard my dad put it the same way, we're basically like fish.

02:33:43.000 I mean, we're swimming in a gas.

02:33:44.000 We live in a gas.

02:33:46.000 The ocean is just a, you know, thicker H2O, that molecule, but they basically swim in their gas.

02:33:54.000 Not really a gas, but people get my point.

02:33:56.000 We are swimming in gas.

02:33:57.000 We are living in gas.

02:34:01.000 A 10,000 foot layer.

02:34:02.000 We live in a 10,000 foot deep water.

02:34:05.000 Are you getting my analogy?

02:34:07.000 Exactly right.

02:34:08.000 Are you willing, this is a general question to everyone, are you willing to have your atmosphere sacrificed?

02:34:14.000 For the intentions that are undeclared and unknown, are you willing to sacrifice both your atmosphere and potentially the world?

02:34:20.000 I remember watching a Discovery Channel program, I think it was called Trinity, out there at the Trinity grounds where they tested the nukes, and they had a line in there where they were shooting in one night something like 20 huge hydrogen bombs into the upper atmosphere and detonating them, and they said that they thought it might ignite the world's atmosphere, but they were still going to do it.

02:34:41.000 I mean, what is the mindset of these That's right.

02:34:47.000 You know, there may come a time, the way we're headed, where you won't have the opportunity to even address the question or answer the problem if you're not willing to act now.

02:34:58.000 I'm not willing to make that sacrifice.

02:35:01.000 I'm sure you've heard of the UT professor who says we all need to die, including his family?

02:35:06.000 Dr. Bianca?

02:35:10.000 Do you think this fits into the whole population control agenda?

02:35:14.000 Again, I may not be able to ascribe intent, but what I can say is that it is expected that there will be increased mortality, as well as the potential of a huge host of unknown pathogens that we are subject to.

02:35:29.000 And this is not based on speculation.

02:35:31.000 And there's a whole arena of biological research that we haven't begun to touch on, which is very real.

02:35:38.000 I forget.

02:35:38.000 I've seen so much.

02:35:39.000 There are links to the NASA website off the sites that may have been Carnicom.com.

02:35:44.000 We've got to hurry here, folks.

02:35:45.000 I'm going over.

02:35:46.000 But where it will show NASA photos 20 years ago, 10 years ago, there's no spider webs.

02:35:53.000 And then you look now at Africa, Europe, England, and it's cobwebs of trails.

02:36:00.000 and they say, oh, it'll say increased jet travel has caused this.

02:36:05.000 Yes, and I have to dismiss that phrase, because unfortunately the debunkers have their little methods and their little phrases.

02:36:12.000 And the spiderweb thing just, it doesn't apply.

02:36:15.000 And it appears as though we're dealing with a polymer is the best that I can come up with right now.

02:36:19.000 No, no, no.

02:36:20.000 I meant the satellite photos where there's these webs of trails.

02:36:23.000 Oh, just the webs of the planes, yeah.

02:36:24.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:36:25.000 Yeah, very true.

02:36:26.000 Yeah, now to, again, I believe the processes of indoctrination are very much in place.

02:36:30.000 All right, I know you've got to go in just a moment.

02:36:32.000 Let's just rampage through these calls.

02:36:34.000 Eleanor in Tennessee, thanks for holding her on the air.

02:36:38.000 Well Alex, in the late 90s I lay on the ground outside and observed fixed-wing aircraft, two of them, one going back and forth one way in one area of the sky, another going back and forth in another area of the sky.

02:36:51.000 They were low enough that I could see they had a canister on either side of the aircraft behind the front wings.

02:36:58.000 From those canisters came these clouds of whatever.

02:37:01.000 You know, with whatever was being spewed out, the planes were going back and forth over an area, expressing the substance, till the sky is full of trails.

02:37:11.000 Within four or five hours, the trails spread out.

02:37:13.000 They come together to form what I call a blanket over the sky.

02:37:18.000 I had read where the Russians used such during World War II to keep the Germans from Thank you, Ali.

02:37:25.000 Thank you.

02:37:26.000 You want to comment on what she just said?

02:37:27.000 Just in my case, in my particular area here, all of my work, I've measured it over and over, and I'm a pretty good judge of altitude.

02:37:34.000 I was a surveyor in the past.

02:37:36.000 All of my work here is at high altitude.

02:37:38.000 There are no planes that fly low here.

02:37:39.000 If there were, you can bet that I would have some photographs of what's happening.

02:37:43.000 So those folks that are at advantageous Uh, replaced to where they can, uh, see these things at lower altitude.

02:37:50.000 Uh, evidence is needed and it just doesn't exist properly yet.

02:37:50.000 Okay.

02:37:53.000 Well, and some of it's real, some of it, you know, is legitimate, though we've caught them doing biological, chemical, radiological tests where this is a cover.

02:38:01.000 But two months ago, I'm listening to the radio, Southwest Austin today, don't be alarmed if you see small aircraft spraying, they're trying to kill, I believe it was the Chinese something boar beetle or something. 0.93

02:38:12.000 And then, oh, there's a deadly mosquito in Corpus Christi when I was down there fishing.

02:38:20.000 And so you'll see planes spraying.

02:38:22.000 So there are other planes out spraying legitimately.

02:38:25.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:38:26.000 I mean, how long have we been living with Crop dusters and agricultural control, sure.

02:38:31.000 But I'm not saying that's what she saw.

02:38:32.000 I mean, I'm not poo-pooing her.

02:38:34.000 Sure, I'm not.

02:38:34.000 I mean, I'm not poo-pooing her either.

02:38:36.000 I'm just... Sometimes there's real stuff going on.

02:38:38.000 Exactly.

02:38:39.000 Very fast, let's walk to Mike in Texas and then Liam, and that's it.

02:38:42.000 Mike, go ahead.

02:38:43.000 Oh, thanks a lot, Alex.

02:38:44.000 God bless y'all for the work that you're doing.

02:38:46.000 I just want to say, a couple years ago, look at what you call a chemtrail in the sky.

02:38:51.000 But it was only spring where there was currently cloud cover.

02:38:55.000 You know, so a lot of people look up and they're like, okay, that's just a contrail from a plane.

02:38:59.000 But in this case, it's just on, and you turn it off for a little bit, get up to another cloud.

02:39:04.000 Well, maybe that's a cloud he put there.

02:39:06.000 But spray it again.

02:39:07.000 Oh yeah, what about this phenomenon of the photos and video that have been shot where they're just turning them on and off?

02:39:12.000 Sure, I have a classic photo of that, one of the early ones that was taken, which is used to make this point.

02:39:18.000 And that is, in some cases, it's clearly, let's say, artificially controlled and distributed.

02:39:24.000 And that particular photo I'm talking about, let me say there was a great deal of interest by certain parties to try and identify the location, source, and timing of that photograph.

02:39:35.000 And I know that there was a clear effort to want to identify that particular pilot of that particular plane at that time, because it's a rather incriminating photograph if you look at it, taken up in Colorado.

02:39:46.000 And the explanations of variation in meteorological conditions don't explain the appropriate way.

02:39:51.000 Well, you'll see stuff, too, when they're flying these grid patterns, is when they get to the end and they're ready to make their turn, they turn off.

02:39:57.000 Then when they turn back around to go back, it turns back on.

02:40:00.000 These are systematic operations.

02:40:03.000 Now, they're very complex, extremely complex, and nobody has a complete handle on exactly the logistics of it.

02:40:09.000 Alright, last caller.

02:40:10.000 But they are systematic.

02:40:11.000 Last caller, Lee in Pennsylvania.

02:40:14.000 You're on the air, Lee.

02:40:15.000 Hi Alex, Clifford.

02:40:16.000 I have a news release I just sent over to Alex's website.

02:40:20.000 It's about oily gunk on homes.

02:40:23.000 Oily substances on Saturday were showered upon their homes and cars, and it's an oily residue that all the neighborhoods, the whole township, Got sprayed with some kind of mist.

02:40:34.000 Well, that happens all the time, and they try to claim that it's, you know, that it's sewage matter from malfunctioning planes, but what do you do when a whole town gets covered with green or black goo?

02:40:46.000 Clifford, we've seen hundreds of these cases.

02:40:48.000 What is that?

02:40:50.000 I can't speak for an oily residue, but what I can speak for is a failure.

02:40:54.000 No matter what the material is, if you have airborne materials that are unexplained that pose a potential health risk or a potential pollution risk, It seems quite reasonable.

02:41:03.000 Yeah, Fish and Wildlife should be responsible for analyzing them.

02:41:08.000 The EPA has failed us tremendously on this regard.

02:41:11.000 Fish and Wildlife comes out and tests every week for the fish and all these other groups running around, but why won't they test this?

02:41:11.000 Well, exactly.

02:41:17.000 The EPA refuses to test this filament material, fibrous material that I'm speaking of.

02:41:22.000 They refuse to test it.

02:41:25.000 What do they say when you talk to them?

02:41:28.000 Pardon me, Alex?

02:41:29.000 What do they say when you talk to them?

02:41:31.000 Well, folks should look into their correspondence.

02:41:33.000 I have it all on the website.

02:41:34.000 Their classic line was, we refuse to analyze any unsolicited material.

02:41:41.000 Basically saying if they didn't ask for it, They don't have any obligation to identify.

02:41:46.000 Now you've done some tests, haven't you?

02:41:48.000 I've done quite a bit of testing.

02:41:49.000 That's a big part of my work over here.

02:41:50.000 What have you found the spiderwebs are?

02:41:52.000 Well, first would be that they're not spiderwebs.

02:41:55.000 They are a most unique filament.

02:41:57.000 They don't satisfy any natural exploration whatsoever.

02:42:01.000 They are at the sub-micron level.

02:42:03.000 Asbestos fibers are 2 microns or less.

02:42:06.000 Most fibers are 10, 12 microns.

02:42:08.000 These things are sub-micron in size.

02:42:10.000 There are biological components that have been repeatedly identified within these fibers.

02:42:16.000 We don't know what they are properly, but I've done quite a bit of analysis, and my work is up there.

02:42:21.000 there there is probably 300 200 pages I would guess at least analysis of these fibers up there yeah okay so I may have been cut off there but there's been quite a body of research that's been done there to analyze it from the perspective that I can the

02:42:44.000 A private lab was consulted at one point at paid cost, and they issued a report which could clearly be shown to be false.

02:42:53.000 They were addressed in person for the failure of that report, and they terminated that meeting at the very early part of it.

02:43:02.000 They said this meeting is now over as soon as I raised the objections as to why that report was false.

02:43:08.000 Thank you.

02:43:37.000 Well, I won't back down.

02:43:41.000 No, I won't back down.

02:43:45.000 You can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I won't back down.

02:43:53.000 No, I'll stand my ground.

02:43:58.000 I won't be turned around.

02:44:02.000 And I'll keep this world from dragging.

02:44:06.000 Ladies and gentlemen, we're here back live, and that never happens unless we're getting into really key information on...

02:44:11.000 I'm down here in Austin, Texas.

02:44:12.000 They're up in Minnesota.

02:44:14.000 Clever Carnicon, I guess I need to go ahead and say bye to you now.

02:44:18.000 I am back, though.

02:44:19.000 I'm here with you.

02:44:20.000 Thanks very much, Alex.

02:44:20.000 Are you there?

02:44:21.000 Yeah, I'll get out of the way for you.

02:44:22.000 They're not feeding me your audio right now.

02:44:23.000 If I can list an 800 number where people can get a copy of the documentary.

02:44:27.000 All right, we're going to go ahead and go back to music.

02:44:28.000 And thank you for joining us.

02:44:30.000 Well, I won't back down.

02:44:41.000 No, I won't back down. 0.97

02:44:45.000 You can stand me up at the gates of hell.

02:44:51.000 But I won't back down.

02:44:54.000 No, I won't stand my ground.

02:44:58.000 Won't be turned around.

02:45:02.000 And I'll keep this world from dragging me down.

02:45:08.000 Gonna stand my ground.

02:45:11.000 And I won't back down.

02:45:15.000 Hey, baby.

02:45:20.000 There ain't no easy way out.

02:45:23.000 Hey, baby.

02:45:27.000 I will stand my ground.

02:45:32.000 And I won't back down.

02:45:37.000 Well, I know what's right.

02:45:40.000 I got just one line.

02:45:44.000 In a world that keeps on pushing me around.

02:45:50.000 But I'll stand my ground.

02:45:53.000 And I won't back down.

02:45:57.000 Hey, baby.

02:46:01.000 There ain't no easy way out.

02:46:05.000 I won't stand my ground.

02:46:08.000 Hey, yeah.

02:46:11.000 Alex Jones here via telephone.

02:46:16.000 I want back to dance.

02:46:18.000 Alex Jones here via telephone.

02:46:36.000 We'll try to work this out.

02:46:38.000 This only happens when we have key guests on, but I'm sure it's us.

02:46:41.000 I'm sure it's all a technical thing.

02:46:43.000 Clifford, in closing here, I want to thank you for coming on and joining us today.

02:46:47.000 I really appreciate you spending time with us.

02:46:49.000 Go ahead and give out that toll-free number.

02:46:50.000 People will get a copy of your film.

02:46:52.000 Alex, thanks very much for all that you've done today.

02:46:53.000 I appreciate it very much.

02:46:55.000 This phone number is for Harriet Fell.

02:46:57.000 She is helping to get this documentary out at cost.

02:46:59.000 There is no profit to be made with this.

02:47:01.000 The phone number is 1-800-335-7226.

02:47:06.000 And I appreciate that very much.

02:47:09.000 Where do you see things going in the future, Clifford?

02:47:09.000 You bet.

02:47:11.000 You say you're working on something new in closing here.

02:47:14.000 Give us an idea what it is.

02:47:15.000 This issue of this disease that has emerged over the past several years, the popular term being given is Mergellin's disease.

02:47:23.000 There's a serious topic of research here that needs a lot of help and I may be contributing to that.

02:47:29.000 Do you think the two are connected because we have the reports of these tiny fibers and that's what's reported to be coming out of skin and then we have real serious doctors?

02:47:36.000 Talking to people and, you know, removing it where clearly there's been no incision, it's just somehow in them?

02:47:42.000 It's possible they're connected, and I guess that's the very question.

02:47:46.000 I'm not trying to draw a connection before it's there, but I think it's valid to raise that question.

02:47:50.000 And what we can say is that that issue is being managed.

02:47:53.000 The Margellons issue is being managed exactly in the same way that this issue has been managed.

02:48:00.000 Basically calling people delusional.

02:48:02.000 Alright, Clifford Carnicom, thank you so much for joining us.

02:48:05.000 Thanks a whole lot, Alex.

02:48:06.000 You bet.

02:48:07.000 It is not delusional that they knowingly for ten years put AIDS virus and HIV in hundreds of thousands of hemophiliacs, blood supply here in the US, tens of thousands in Canada, and hundreds of thousands worldwide.

02:48:19.000 It is not a conspiracy theory that they gave black men syphilis.

02:48:23.000 It is not a conspiracy theory they nerve gassed US troops.

02:48:27.000 It is not a conspiracy theory, so all of this is open for discussion.

02:48:30.000 And anybody that tells you you shouldn't look into something has got a serious problem.

02:48:35.000 We'll be back with a final segment.

02:48:36.000 Infowars.com is the website.

02:48:38.000 It's here after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.

02:48:51.000 My new film, Terror Storm, is complete.

02:48:53.000 Shocking declassified government documents prove that Western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.

02:49:01.000 Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.

02:49:09.000 Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spies, Secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.

02:49:21.000 Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.

02:49:25.000 It's an anthology of government crimes.

02:49:27.000 Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.

02:49:31.000 Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.

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02:51:39.000 Well, there's no real terrorist threat outside what criminal elements of the government are carrying out.

02:51:51.000 Here's a story out of News 7 out of Denver, Colorado.

02:51:54.000 Marshals, innocent people placed on a watch list to meet quota.

02:51:58.000 Marshals say they must file one surveillance detection report, or SDR, per month.

02:52:03.000 When you're put in a terrorist database, you could be on a senior government database on which lists for simply taking a picture on an airplane.

02:52:11.000 Some federal air marshals say they're reporting your actions to meet a quota, even though some top officials deny it.

02:52:17.000 The Air Marshals' identities are being concealed, told 7 News.

02:52:22.000 They go risk their careers and everything to tell this, and the Feds say, oh, it's not true, because they're so trustworthy.

02:52:27.000 The Air Marshals' identities are being concealed, told 7 News.

02:52:30.000 They were required to submit at least one report a month.

02:52:33.000 If they don't, there's no raise, no bonus, no awards, and no special assignments.

02:52:39.000 Innocent passengers are being entered into an international intelligence database of suspicious persons.

02:52:44.000 By the way, they've told me I'm on this.

02:52:46.000 Acting in a suspicious manner or on an aircraft and they did nothing wrong, said one Federal Air Marshal.

02:52:51.000 Well that's the whole plan in a secret police society!

02:52:54.000 It isn't about stopping terror, it's about getting us all in databases!

02:52:59.000 And by the way, we're going to be writing a big article on this.

02:53:01.000 I've sent it to Paul Watson.

02:53:03.000 Jerome Corsi broke it on my show yesterday.

02:53:05.000 We've since, on the federal government's own website, found their PDF file.

02:53:09.000 You will have an American Union ID card.

02:53:12.000 As Ridge said, I told you four years ago, I saw Homeland Security Ed Ridge, then Ed, say that there'll be four levels of how you're trusted.

02:53:19.000 Green, yellow, orange, red.

02:53:22.000 Bad credit, you get a yellow, and you have no rights.

02:53:26.000 Oh, you have rights if you're green, but no rights for things Yes, it's actually happening my friends. 1.00

02:53:32.000 It just boggles the mind.

02:53:33.000 All the illegal aliens will be instantly legalized. 0.95

02:53:37.000 Yes, it's actually happening, my friends.

02:53:42.000 It just boggles the mind.

02:53:44.000 A program note, C-SPAN claims they'll be airing the big 9/11 scholars symposium, American scholars symposium, 9/11 Neocon agenda, round table discussion, panel discussion we had three plus weeks ago, They claim this Saturday, 8 p.m.

02:54:01.000 Eastern, C-SPAN 1, American Perspectives.

02:54:07.000 But they still haven't posted it on the schedule.

02:54:10.000 And the reason I'm concerned is they said, oh, it might be the next week.

02:54:14.000 So they're trying to make us basically forget about all this, or the war in Iran is going to kick off and this isn't going to happen.

02:54:20.000 Who knows?

02:54:21.000 It's just normally they air something within two weeks.

02:54:23.000 So call in to C-SPAN, Washington Journal every morning and say, hey, when is that going on the schedule?

02:54:28.000 Hey, when is that?

02:54:30.000 Infowars.com!

02:54:32.000 And I'm asking you, the listeners, to call into all the mainstream radio talk shows, the truth talk shows, the patriot talk shows, and tell them about Terror Storm.

02:54:41.000 Tell them about my new film, if you've seen it, if you like it, on DVD or on the web.

02:54:47.000 If this is going to get promoted, if this is going to have an effect, it is really up to you to help us out with it.

02:54:53.000 So post it on message boards, email it to your friends, tell them they can watch it at PrisonPlanet.tv or call toll free and get your copy and start making copies.

02:55:01.000 The power of you, the listeners, getting my videos and making copies and getting them out to people is just so wonderful.

02:55:09.000 And I've never made a film this good.

02:55:11.000 I'm so proud of it.

02:55:12.000 I hope you'll get it.

02:55:13.000 My other films are excellent as well.

02:55:14.000 Martial Law, Order of Death, Road to Tyranny, Masters of Terror.

02:55:17.000 They're all excellent.

02:55:18.000 1-888-253-3139 is the toll-free number to order.

02:55:20.000 1-888-253-3139.

02:55:20.000 Or you can simply write to me.

02:55:21.000 3139 is the toll-free number to order. 1-888-253-3139.

02:55:27.000 Or you can simply write to me.

02:55:29.000 I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.

02:55:37.000 So see it online at PrisonPlanet.tv.

02:55:39.000 Or call toll-free, 888-253-3139.

02:55:43.000 Or order a hard copy right now at Infowars.com.

02:55:47.000 I'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight, back tomorrow 11 to 2, more big guests throughout the week, vital information as we chronicle the New World Order's criminal activities, here Monday through Friday 11 to 2, and you heard it, back from 9 to midnight.

02:56:00.000 Now get out there, expose the terrorists, be bold, be strong.

02:56:04.000 They're doing a lot of crazy, bizarre stuff.

02:56:06.000 The sky's the limit, literally.

02:56:09.000 If you can think of it, and it's horrible, but it's worse what they're doing.

02:56:12.000 That's what I found.

02:56:14.000 And so we've just got to expose them.

02:56:16.000 We've got to fight them.

02:56:17.000 There are more of us than there are of them.

02:56:19.000 God bless you all!

Alex Jones Show - August 23, 2006

20060823_Wed_Alex

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