Alex Jones Show - 20081119_Wed_Alex

00:00:00.000 Welcome, welcome, welcome on this 19th day of November 2008.

00:00:01.000 The Alexis Communications Radio Network proudly presents The Alex Jones Show.

00:00:06.000 Because there's a war on for your mind.

00:00:09.000 Welcome, welcome, welcome on this 19th day of November 2008.

00:00:15.000 Got about 52 minutes left in this coast to coast broadcast.

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00:01:05.000 Now, I thought I'd get both these guys on together.

00:01:07.000 Something a little different.

00:01:09.000 I mean, obviously I could have one of them on for ten hours.

00:01:12.000 They've got so much knowledge apiece.

00:01:13.000 But we've got David Ray Griffin on with physics professor Stephen Jones together.

00:01:22.000 And they're both big 9-11 truthers.

00:01:24.000 And so I thought, well, originally I was going to have them on for this hour.

00:01:29.000 Because National Geographic wanted to interview me and others about 9-11 Truth.

00:01:35.000 And then I found out that the guy that was doing the piece, this Erickson, specializes in hit pieces on the JFK assassination.

00:01:43.000 And I watched some of his programs, and let me tell you, I've never seen anything like it.

00:01:48.000 So I didn't want to be a kind of a cardboard cutout in a stacked deck.

00:01:52.000 I think Griffin and Jones are still being interviewed for it, but they were going to be here today, and I saw the program inside the shooter car this Sunday you made for Discovery, and it was ridiculous. 0.91

00:02:03.000 It was ridiculous.

00:02:04.000 I mean, bottom line, they admit they tore up the Chrysler, took it apart, hid the evidence, took it away, witnesses said there were bullet holes all over it, in the windshield, none of that. 0.80

00:02:14.000 And a parade of spooks telling us that Oswald did it alone.

00:02:18.000 And I just said, you know what, I just don't want to be around these people.

00:02:21.000 And they're like, but you don't want to be on TV?

00:02:23.000 No, I don't care.

00:02:25.000 So, that said, I've never turned down an interview, but you know what, when it's this bad, I'm just not going to be part of it.

00:02:34.000 Bringing that subject up, let's go to David Ray Griffin first, briefly.

00:02:38.000 David, I guess you're still going to be interviewed by these guys?

00:02:41.000 Well, it is scheduled, but it's up in the air.

00:02:47.000 I felt the show they did on 9-11 was pretty horrible.

00:02:54.000 Excuse me, I'm mixing with the JFK.

00:03:00.000 The History Channel did that.

00:03:02.000 And I haven't seen enough of the National Geographic.

00:03:07.000 The one show I turned down was the second BBC show.

00:03:12.000 Which was on World Trade Center 7, and Stephen went ahead and went on that one, and I'm glad he did, because he was able to get in a lot of good points, as did Richard Gage.

00:03:23.000 And, you know, they said, well, that show was going to be better.

00:03:26.000 It indeed was better than the original BBC show on the towers, but it was still full of lies, and mainly the big lie about Barry Jennings' timeline, which they totally Okay, we're going to go over that, and I'm glad that's why you're here today.

00:03:43.000 I was originally going to have you talk about 9-11 evidence.

00:03:46.000 Okay, I agreed to do BBC, and that was a hit piece and was twisted, but let me tell you, they at least acted like they were getting our side.

00:03:54.000 This guy, this Erickson, if you watch the JFK shooter car, inside the shooter car, Completely one-sided.

00:04:02.000 I have never seen a hit piece even approaching this.

00:04:06.000 So, a word to the wise is sufficient to you and Professor Jones, both of you are professors.

00:04:10.000 and so, I mean, believe me, I don't just back out of, I mean, I'm not afraid of going up against somebody, but, I mean, if I know that their specialty is this type of intellectual quackery, then I'm not if I know that their specialty is this type of intellectual quackery, then I'm not going to be part of it, Let's bring Stephen Jones up.

00:04:32.000 Speaking of that last BBC hit piece, what did you think of that, Professor Jones?

00:04:39.000 Well, I want to talk about the BBC, but also the National Geographic interview that I have already had, actually, Alex, last week.

00:04:50.000 So starting with BBC, like I say, I was able to get a few points in.

00:04:54.000 I was very disappointed in their headline that came out before the preliminary report from NIST, and that was that the World Trade Center 7 mystery has been solved.

00:05:13.000 Well, you know, it's not solved until they get the report, until we have a chance to respond.

00:05:18.000 and review what they said.

00:05:20.000 Overall, the piece was basically a hit piece, but like David said, we were able to get a few points across, which I was very gratified that we were able to get some truth out through that medium.

00:05:31.000 I think it's very important that we continue to reach people through the media, even if they're not entirely friendly to us.

00:05:39.000 You know, it gives us a chance to reach people, then they can get online and learn more.

00:05:45.000 Now, Alex, I would like to About this Robert Erickson, I was interviewed by him last week.

00:05:51.000 Let's see, it would be Thursday.

00:05:53.000 And frankly, I thought his questions were very fair.

00:05:58.000 I don't think I gave him a lot of ammunition to do a hit piece, because I was very circumspect in my answers.

00:06:06.000 There was a question, there were a lot of questions about the science, the technical details, the dust of 9-11.

00:06:15.000 which I was just very pleased to answer.

00:06:17.000 And frankly, he seemed quite interested.

00:06:19.000 So I don't know if this will be different from the JFK. 0.66

00:06:22.000 I suspect it will.

00:06:24.000 Well, what they do is they do, with crop circles, with other JFK events, they do specific little scientific tests, and then they say, case closed, Oswald alone, you know, shot him from behind.

00:06:41.000 I'm not saying you're bad for doing the interview, I'm glad you did it, I'm just saying look out.

00:06:46.000 I also kept asking them, what do you want to interview me about?

00:06:48.000 Send me questions.

00:06:49.000 And they wouldn't give me the questions.

00:06:52.000 So that's the main reason, but let's get into the latest BBC piece with David Ray Griffin, and then Professor Jones, come in with your own points on the science, as a physicist, dealing with this.

00:07:05.000 Professor Griffin, breaking down the latest BBC piece, saying, we solved Building 7, and this is why it happened.

00:07:13.000 Break that down for folks, the distortions.

00:07:18.000 Well, partly they're basing it on what they assumed NIST was going to say.

00:07:25.000 The report of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which wasn't out yet, but they clearly were talking with them and had a pretty good idea what they were going to say.

00:07:38.000 And one thing NIST had done was to distort the timeline of Barry Jennings and Michael Hess.

00:07:45.000 As you know, And most of your listeners know.

00:07:50.000 Jennings very clearly said that he and Hess went into the World Trade Center Building 7 very early, right after the first strike.

00:07:59.000 So they were up there by about 9 o'clock.

00:08:02.000 He's certain he was there at 9.03 when the second strike on the South Tower occurred.

00:08:07.000 And shortly thereafter, they went down the stairs.

00:08:12.000 The elevator wouldn't work, and Jennings said he was on the BBC show, he said, He was going a landing at a time.

00:08:19.000 And so they were going down very fast.

00:08:21.000 So that means they would have gotten down to the 6th floor by about 9.10 or 9.15 at the latest.

00:08:28.000 And there was this huge explosion.

00:08:29.000 They went back up to the 8th floor, broke a window.

00:08:32.000 Jennings said, I looked out, and both towers were still standing.

00:08:37.000 So what the Enists said, well, these two guys were in there.

00:08:42.000 And there was a big event, but it was just the North Tower coming down.

00:08:48.000 Well, of course, that was 1028, which is over an hour later.

00:08:53.000 And Hess remained silent, of course, all those years.

00:08:58.000 And then as soon as Jennings dies, the BBC interviews Hess, and Hess freely does an interview now.

00:09:09.000 And of course tells this new story and tells the timeline.

00:09:13.000 And interestingly, of course, Heath is still alive.

00:09:18.000 Also...

00:09:20.000 Also on record here, he went on Fox TV, he went on other news channels right after the towers had collapsed, and he's on tape talking about how he quickly got out of the building and then how the towers collapsed.

00:09:34.000 So, clearly on record, BBC and everybody knows that that was a very short time frame, not three hours.

00:09:41.000 So we're seeing massive deception right there on its face.

00:09:45.000 Well, we know that Hess was being interviewed a half mile away before noon.

00:09:51.000 Uh, probably 1134, but at least before noon.

00:09:54.000 And, uh, in this claim, they didn't even get rescued until 10 after 12, or 10 or 15 minutes after 12.

00:10:02.000 So we know they're lying about that.

00:10:04.000 I don't think he has... I didn't hear him say anything about the towers coming down, but what he did say was that he... there was a big explosion.

00:10:12.000 And now he's changed the story, and he says, well, yeah, I thought there was an explosion at the time, but now I realize it was just the...

00:10:19.000 the North Tower coming down.

00:10:21.000 Well, the way the program implied it, I mean, they don't state anything in these except the pieces, was that it was the towers falling.

00:10:26.000 And then they got them out of the building after the towers had fallen.

00:10:30.000 I mean, that's the point I'm making is they imply the explosions are the towers falling.

00:10:35.000 That's right.

00:10:36.000 Now, Stephen Jones particularly gets into the science itself.

00:10:40.000 What did you think about the science they were putting out in that piece?

00:10:45.000 Well, I've been disappointed.

00:10:49.000 You know, they did their...

00:10:51.000 Let me put some background, Alex.

00:10:53.000 About the time they interviewed me, we were finishing up our 14 points paper, which is published in the Open Civil Engineering Journal.

00:11:02.000 So people can Google on that or go to journal on 911studies.com and it's right at the top, a link to this paper in an established journal.

00:11:11.000 So, point 11 there, I discussed with the folks from BBC, Which has to do with the steel recovered from the site of World Trade Center 7.

00:11:22.000 It just looks like Swiss cheese.

00:11:25.000 I don't know if you've seen the photos.

00:11:27.000 But it's heavily corroded and shows sulfur inside the steel.

00:11:35.000 And of course that's been a point in my first paper on 9-11 and then again on this 14 points paper.

00:11:43.000 And so I raised that with BBC and we discussed it at some length.

00:11:46.000 In fact, I even did an experiment right there with them shaping it.

00:11:51.000 Well, hold on one moment.

00:11:56.000 I'm actually going to skip this break because this information is too important right now.

00:12:00.000 With food prices.

00:12:02.000 Now, let's go ahead and skip that break with David Ray Griffin and Stephen Jones because we have both of you.

00:12:06.000 I want to make sure both of you have more time.

00:12:09.000 Specifically, yeah, they're claiming that the metal was corroded in the heat instead of being instantly melted.

00:12:19.000 And so can you...

00:12:23.000 Yeah, so here's what we did.

00:12:26.000 FEMA, to their credit, put this data in Appendix C of their report that came out, and then NIST has totally ignored this data on the steel.

00:12:37.000 In fact, NIST admits they didn't look at any steel from World Trade Center 7 in their report.

00:12:41.000 Very blatant violation of normal scientific protocol.

00:12:47.000 They've been lying, Stephen.

00:12:49.000 They said there was no steel from Building 7.

00:12:52.000 Very interesting point.

00:12:54.000 There's a lot of steel there.

00:12:55.000 I saw the photos of it, but anyway.

00:12:57.000 Okay, and I know a lot of it was whisked away, but we do know of a sample that still exists, because we've been in touch with the people at Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

00:13:06.000 They have the steel from the rubble pile of Building 7.

00:13:09.000 Quite a distance, as you know, from the other two towers, so there's really very little question about it.

00:13:15.000 Besides markings and so on.

00:13:17.000 Well, back to the story with BBC.

00:13:19.000 So I did this experiment with thermate, which is what I call thermite plus sulfur, and I had a piece of steel from the South Tower.

00:13:29.000 Long story, how I got this small sample of steel, but it was actual steel from the World Trade Center.

00:13:33.000 I put this slice of steel in the thermate, touched it off, BBC cameras rolling, I don't see that they showed any of that, but then we took that steel down to the scanning electron microscope and looked at it, and sure enough, there's sulfur in the steel.

00:13:51.000 Which is surprising, we've done this experiment before, but you know, I was trying to get the point across that we know how the sulfur and this attack, there's a hole in the steel when you do this with thermate.

00:14:02.000 And you showed all this to BBC, and they really didn't show a lot of that.

00:14:06.000 And they didn't show it.

00:14:08.000 Well, let me tell you what's going to happen when this other guy from I mean, it's a production company who just did a Discovery Channel piece on JFK.

00:14:16.000 Now they're doing the San Francisco Geographic.

00:14:19.000 What he does is he hires a bunch of former cops.

00:14:22.000 We know about these cop crime labs.

00:14:24.000 Oh boy, are they reliable.

00:14:26.000 Give me a break.

00:14:28.000 Beelzebub's more accurate.

00:14:30.000 And then they have them, and they're going to come out and show, knowing that the general public's not going to go out and do your thermate test, and it's going to be kind of like I know what you mean, Alex.

00:14:39.000 I'm just saying that I think it's worthwhile to take a shot at trying to get some facts out there to the public.

00:14:45.000 Even some of those slipped through in the BBC effort.

00:14:47.000 unless I'm totally wrong about all this.

00:14:50.000 I still, yeah, I know what you mean, Alex.

00:14:53.000 I'm just saying that I think it's worthwhile to take a shot to try and get some facts out there to the public.

00:14:59.000 Even some of those slipped through in the BBC effort.

00:15:04.000 So I'm hopeful with this fellow Robert.

00:15:07.000 And if I say, his questions were fair.

00:15:11.000 There's one question that he asked that I thought was a little off, and so I didn't go there, but I explained why.

00:15:17.000 His question was, well, he's talking to Professor Thomas Eager, which is good in a sense.

00:15:25.000 I'd like to see, I'd like to talk to Professor Eager.

00:15:26.000 I'd like to debate the issues publicly with Professor Eager, particularly the 14-point.

00:15:31.000 But what are they asking?

00:15:34.000 What did he specifically ask you about, Eager?

00:15:37.000 Oh, so what he was asking about was, he said, Eager wants me to ask you, how in the world can you get all these explosives into the towers and Building 7 to bring them down?

00:15:50.000 You know, give me an exact scenario.

00:15:53.000 And my point was, well look, we have now found residues in the dust that show this explosive material.

00:16:05.000 Hold on, hold on, we're coming back to the full audience.

00:16:06.000 Hold on, here we go.

00:16:12.000 Okay, so Professor Jones is talking to the... We're going to go back to Professor Griffin here in just a moment.

00:16:20.000 He's talking to the...

00:16:23.000 National Geographic guy, and then a guy saying, this Professor Eager wants to know exactly how many bombs were in the building, and exactly how they wired up 7 in Tower 1 and 2.

00:16:32.000 Well, he asked me that same question over the phone, and I said, well, Building 7 was a spook building, CIA, FBI, it was the emergency, and he just started laughing at me.

00:16:40.000 I mean, that's an admitted fact, but it's real funny.

00:16:43.000 And, you know, same thing with the other buildings, and Professor Jones was saying, Well, hey, we found the explosive's residue.

00:16:51.000 That's the issue here.

00:16:53.000 Not how did they commit the whole crime.

00:16:54.000 We're saying there's evidence of a crime.

00:16:56.000 That's why we needed a real investigation, not a cover-up.

00:17:00.000 Professor Jones?

00:17:02.000 That's right, Alex.

00:17:03.000 And that's what I explained to him on tape.

00:17:06.000 So I didn't give him an exact scenario.

00:17:09.000 What I said was there's a lot we can learn from the hard physical evidence from the 9-11 deaths.

00:17:16.000 And these residues that we're looking for, the NFPA 921, the National Fire Code, requires a scene of a fire where there's a crime, which certainly applies to 9-11.

00:17:30.000 But then the next step, just like in CSI, the scientists do their work, but then you have other investigators with subpoena power, for instance, in a trial setting, so that you can ask questions from a lot of people.

00:17:46.000 Well, you've now gotten peer-reviewed journals on this, and I want to talk about that more, but going back to David Ray Griffin, who by the way has written, what, now seven books on 9-11.

00:17:56.000 Is that correct, Professor?

00:17:58.000 And we'll talk about the latest book before you leave us here.

00:17:58.000 Yeah.

00:18:02.000 But the time we've got, you know, you've studied more psychology.

00:18:06.000 You've studied more the human mind.

00:18:07.000 You know, that's what your degree is more focused on.

00:18:11.000 Studying this and being involved in the investigation, you know, we've got the Solicitor General's, you know, wife, Neal.

00:18:19.000 Now the FBI admits that he made up the phone call.

00:18:23.000 She didn't call him.

00:18:24.000 I mean, how are they getting so many people to lie, who've been caught in lies, and how do they get these TV presenters to knowingly go out and lie and say that Barry Jennings was in the building three hours when he was in there 20 minutes?

00:18:38.000 I mean, how do they find people to do this?

00:18:43.000 Well, they pay them big salaries.

00:18:46.000 A lot of my work was in the problem of evil.

00:18:51.000 And this is, of course, a very old story.

00:18:54.000 And it still is shocking, even though I've studied it over the centuries, the really just horrible things people can do, and at the same time be kind of ordinary good family men.

00:19:10.000 I mean, this was notorious about the Nazis.

00:19:14.000 In fact, the famous statement called the Banality of Evil, a study of the Nazis, that these were just ordinary family men that get put in situations where their job depends on it, their career depends on it, their salary depends on it, and so on.

00:19:34.000 And it is astounding what people will do.

00:19:38.000 I was very disappointed on the BBC show They at least dealt with this question of the steel that had been turned into Swiss cheese looking stuff, that they at least mentioned this, but they brought on one or two of those professors at Worcester Polytechnic Institute who had done that study, and you know at the time they said, well, they had no idea where the sulfur came from.

00:20:09.000 On the BBC show, one of them said, oh, well, I don't find that surprising.

00:20:15.000 It could have just kind of mixed in, you know, heating up underground there.

00:20:19.000 Yeah, they claim steel now corroded in a few weeks in the heat when it's got the, according to Jones and others, you know, the classic burn holes, you know, that happen from something really fast.

00:20:34.000 Well, that's right, and you'd be talking about extremely High temperatures.

00:20:39.000 Stephen, what temperatures would you need to oxidize steel?

00:20:46.000 Well, of course steel can rust, but the point here is that there are very high temperatures in evidence to reduce that steel beam to the thickness.

00:20:58.000 It's very thin paper with holes in it, plus the sulfur in the steel.

00:21:04.000 I talked to a fellow from WPI saying, well, it could, the operative term there is could, have been something like Wal-Board that could introduce sulfur.

00:21:16.000 But you see, Wal-Board has calcium and sulfur, and they're very tightly bound with oxygen as well, calcium and sulfur.

00:21:24.000 So, you know, it's not an issue here just saying you could do it.

00:21:29.000 You do experiments.

00:21:30.000 That's what we do in science.

00:21:33.000 Alright, we're going to break and come back and talk about that experiment, and then from both of you, both Professor Jones and Professor Griffin, find out where you think this should go from here.

00:21:46.000 Stay with us, we'll be right back.

00:21:51.000 We're on the march, the empire's on the run.

00:21:55.000 Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.

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00:23:00.000 Today, unlike any other in the long course of American history, a terrorist act of war against this country.

00:23:07.000 The enemy struck America on September 11th.

00:23:10.000 But who is the enemy?

00:23:11.000 Bin Laden.

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00:24:59.000 You know, in the 25 minutes or so of airtime we have left with both of you gentlemen today, I'd like for you both to have a discussion and cover the issues that you think are most important.

00:25:17.000 and And we can go back over the science of Building 7 or Tower 1 or 2, that's only a small part of it.

00:25:26.000 You take all the evidence together, that's what's really strong.

00:25:30.000 It's just seeing the other side, how they always lie, they always distort, they always twist, knowingly.

00:25:37.000 And I go back to what I was saying to David Ray Griffin, who's a top theologian, amongst other things, is, yeah, the nature of evil.

00:25:46.000 I mean, do they rationalize to themselves?

00:25:49.000 I think some of them do that, but others, you know, it's funny to them.

00:25:52.000 I mean, I guess they get a thrill by working with the evil, by being patted on the head by the system.

00:26:05.000 David Ray Griffin?

00:26:07.000 Well, you know, it's hard to know in all cases.

00:26:11.000 I think some of it is what Sinclair Lewis pointed out long ago, that it's hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

00:26:24.000 So I think in some cases, the people in the news media, you know, they have blinders on and they just look selectively at the evidence that seems to support the official story.

00:26:37.000 And so they recognize, well, if they twist a little bit here and there, they're doing it for a larger truth they can rationalize.

00:26:46.000 So I think there's quite a bit of that going on, rather than just, well, I know I'm doing something really horrible, but I need the money.

00:26:56.000 So I think there's a lot of self-delusion that allows people to live with themselves.

00:27:04.000 Absolutely.

00:27:05.000 Steven Jones, I know you're a physicist, so you stick mainly to the science, but dealing with these people, I mean, your evidence, your research is conclusive.

00:27:13.000 It fits in with other research and eyewitness reports.

00:27:18.000 They're fitting square pegs and round holes.

00:27:20.000 We're fitting round pegs and round holes.

00:27:26.000 I mean, what has this whole journey been like for you?

00:27:28.000 And where do you see 9-11 Truth going now?

00:27:31.000 And then I'll ask that same question to Griffin.

00:27:33.000 Now that Obama's coming in, some are saying, oh my gosh, they think everything's fine okay now.

00:27:38.000 They're going to sleep.

00:27:39.000 Not understanding the very same military-industrial complex that clearly staged the attacks is still in control.

00:27:47.000 Let me respond to that particular issue of where the 9-11 Truth Movement is going, Alex.

00:27:53.000 I'm actually quite encouraged.

00:27:55.000 See, the flip side to those, basically, official people missed, for example, that keep evading many of our questions.

00:28:05.000 And then, anyway, we could discuss that further.

00:28:08.000 But I want to hit on and mention the people that are There's really a very large, as you know, and you're a big part of it, this large public movement to get at the 9-11 truth.

00:28:22.000 And in particular, I want to thank those people in New York City who saved World Trade Center deaths, the 9-11 deaths, on that day or shortly thereafter.

00:28:34.000 We now have four samples that we're looking at very actively and scrutinizing very carefully.

00:28:43.000 And, uh, this dust is just revealing so much to us about what really happened that day.

00:28:48.000 Uh, I have heard reports that the officials that, uh, gathered up the steel and shipped that over to Asia for melting also tried to gather up all the dust, but they did not succeed.

00:29:00.000 A lot of people saved dust because it came into their apartments.

00:29:03.000 It invaded their private space and, and to their great credit, these, uh, New Yorkers saved some of that dust, often just for a souvenir.

00:29:13.000 And we've had a dust-in from Frank D'Alessio, who gathered a sample ten minutes after the North Tower collapsed.

00:29:20.000 That dust is full of these red chips, red on one side, gray on the other, that are very actively being studied now by three labs.

00:29:30.000 And there are other labs anxious to study this material.

00:29:34.000 And the reason I mention this, I had an email from David here just before your program.

00:29:40.000 We would like to encourage others who have saved dust samples to provide a portion of the sample, retaining some for a further study.

00:29:50.000 But this study is underway now.

00:29:52.000 We're not waiting for an official government sanction or group to study this.

00:29:56.000 We're studying it now.

00:29:58.000 And we want to turn this into an international effort.

00:30:01.000 The labs now are here in Indiana and New Hampshire, and we want to spread that to France and Australia and so on.

00:30:10.000 There are people in France just very anxious to get their hands on a small 9-11 dust sample.

00:30:18.000 Sure.

00:30:18.000 They can look for the microspheres and the red-grey chips.

00:30:22.000 So, Stephen, would you want them to send it directly to you, or how would they get it to you?

00:30:27.000 Okay, I wouldn't want it to come directly to me, then we have problems with chain of custody.

00:30:33.000 But if they want to write to me, or... You could give them the address where to send it.

00:30:39.000 I can give them the address, right.

00:30:41.000 Professor Barbarian in France needs a sample desperately, for example.

00:30:47.000 And we're trying to get that over to him.

00:30:50.000 It needs to be, a sample needs to be about what would fit in your hand, you know, a cup-shaped hand.

00:30:55.000 Well, how do folks get in contact with you?

00:30:57.000 Through the journal?

00:30:58.000 Yeah, if they go to the journal of 911studies.com, and then up at the top click on Contact Us, they can write to either Kevin, or either of the three editors, Kevin Ryan, Frank Legge, a Ph.D.

00:31:12.000 chemist in Australia, or myself.

00:31:16.000 Or if, this is David Griffin, if anybody just wants to email me, if you know my email, I'm in contact with the same people in France, so I can give you the address too.

00:31:26.000 Right, so we're very anxious to turn this into an international, basically a public, conducted investigation with the public being involved in providing... Well that is the good news!

00:31:36.000 We also have Russian TV, French, Spanish, Japanese.

00:31:40.000 I mean, they're all doing real reports that are showing, wow, there really is evidence of inside job.

00:31:50.000 David Ray Griffin, looking at this historically, which you also look at, how do you see it unfolding now?

00:31:55.000 Because at one level, I do see it losing some wind in the sails with Obama.

00:31:59.000 But at another level, it's already gone international and actually seems to be building despite that.

00:32:06.000 And you know, false flag terrorism has now entered the nomenclature.

00:32:11.000 It's in movies, it's in culture.

00:32:13.000 People are now looking for it, so it seems that the tool of government, of false flag, or corporations, has been damaged to a certain extent.

00:32:20.000 And some people say to me, well, why do you care?

00:32:23.000 The whole point is the entire post 9-11 world, this whole surveillance grid, Yes, let me make three points.

00:32:23.000 That was seven years ago.

00:32:31.000 One is, I think the election of Obama is a reason to gear up, not to slow down.

00:32:35.000 and truth saga itself and where you see it, what it's done and where you see it going?

00:32:39.000 Yes, let me make three points.

00:32:42.000 One is I think the election of Obama is a reason to gear up, not to slow down.

00:32:52.000 Because, you know, although we all tried, there was no realistic chance, as long as Bush was in power, that anything was going to happen in the United States.

00:33:03.000 But with a new administration, a new Attorney General, and so on, there is really a chance that we could have an investigation.

00:33:12.000 Now, some people were motivated by revenge.

00:33:14.000 They wanted Bush and Cheney and the gang to be punished, and that's understandable.

00:33:19.000 But that's not the main thing.

00:33:21.000 The main thing is to get the policies changed, as you've indicated.

00:33:25.000 The so-called war on terror is set to continue.

00:33:29.000 Obama thus far has talked about increasing our activities in Afghanistan, and they're still talking as if they believe that Osama bin Laden is still alive, even though there's no evidence that he's been alive.

00:33:44.000 In fact, it appears they're reviving him!

00:33:45.000 Yeah, he's... I'm just writing a paper on that, and the evidence is very strong.

00:33:55.000 The evidence that he's been alive since 2001 is really extremely weak to non-existent.

00:34:02.000 So that's one point, that we should be increasing our activity, not decreasing it.

00:34:08.000 Secondly, on this internationalization, I just returned from a tour in Japan, and there is increasing interest there.

00:34:17.000 We had almost 500 people turn out in Tokyo for an all-day conference.

00:34:25.000 And then we have political leaders in Tokyo who have taken a public stand.

00:34:32.000 And of course, that adds credibility.

00:34:35.000 And I've been working with Fujita and another person to bring about a group called Political Leaders for 9-11 Truth, which will be an international movement.

00:34:47.000 We already, in fact, have a website, although if you go there, there's nothing on it there.

00:34:52.000 But we're all ready to fill in the The data.

00:34:55.000 So that'll be a significant event.

00:34:58.000 And thirdly... Hello, are you still there?

00:35:02.000 Yes, we're here.

00:35:03.000 Okay, I just... Thirdly, a new group has just formed called Lawyers for 9-11 Truth, which is an international group.

00:35:12.000 And William Pepper and many other leading lawyers have already signed up, and it's moving along rather quickly.

00:35:21.000 The point is that whereas Stephen and Kevin and others have led the way to get us to this point, where the science is so strong, that it's now time to turn it over to the political and legal realm, and that is now starting to happen.

00:35:41.000 Alright, well let's look forward.

00:35:42.000 First you, Professor Grimmond, and then quickly, and then get a response from Professor Jones.

00:35:50.000 How do you see it unfolding in the future?

00:35:52.000 Because it is continuing to grow.

00:35:54.000 People understand how core an issue it is of government-sponsored terror, of provocateur actions.

00:36:00.000 How do you see it unfolding?

00:36:01.000 Do you see any justice to the perpetrators?

00:36:04.000 Or do you just see it becoming a public secret that this has been done, thus deterring some of the same institutions from pulling off similar events in the future?

00:36:17.000 Well, I would prefer a third alternative.

00:36:21.000 As I say, I'm not interested in and resent, and I'm rather encouraged by Obama.

00:36:28.000 I know some people aren't, but I am.

00:36:31.000 First of all, he is very bright, and secondly, I believe he has also got a strong moral compass.

00:36:37.000 And he also appreciates constitutional law, and he knows what has been done here.

00:36:45.000 And so I think that he will be open to, he and his people will be open to evidence.

00:36:51.000 So that's why I say I think we need to ramp things up and present the strongest evidence and take every route we can to get it, bring it to the attention of the Obama people.

00:37:05.000 Because I think there is the chance for real investigation, but also he has shown that he has this Virtue called forgiveness that, you know, at least in our Christian tradition, has been called a virtue.

00:37:22.000 And he's willing to let bygones be bygones.

00:37:26.000 And so I think if the most hopeful route would be a truth and reconciliation commission, where the main thing would be to get the truth out and therefore get the policies changed.

00:37:39.000 And if these people, you know, they'll have their own punishment.

00:37:45.000 You know, just knowing what they did, and having other people know what they did, that's a very secondary or tertiary matter from my point of view.

00:37:53.000 Professor Jones?

00:37:55.000 Yeah.

00:37:57.000 I guess mine would be almost a fourth alternative, or maybe a modification of a couple others, and that is, I think, from the people, ourselves, internationally now, as it's clear that there's an awakening going on.

00:38:12.000 I think that there can be this grassroots movement, coupled, frankly, with economic difficulties that are making people say, well, wait a minute, maybe I shouldn't trust the government and everything, you know?

00:38:27.000 I mean, the depression or recession, whatever you want to call it, that seems to be spreading internationally is inducing people to take a hard look at what has brought us to this state.

00:38:39.000 And as that happens, Through the internet and programs like yours, Alex, the truth about 9-11, I believe, will resonate with more people, and we'll have this grassroots movement demanding answers.

00:38:53.000 And I think that, coupled with the science, will force politicians, even in our own Congress, to say, look, we need to take a look at this.

00:39:03.000 I might say that our Congressman, my Congressman, here in Utah, Came over to my little apartment and spent an hour with me, one-on-one, discussing 9-11 issues and the research that I've done.

00:39:17.000 And he is very supportive of a 9-11 investigation.

00:39:21.000 Jason Chaffetz.

00:39:22.000 Just newly elected.

00:39:23.000 Replaced Chris Cannon.

00:39:25.000 Well, Jason Chaffetz.

00:39:29.000 Chaffetz, right.

00:39:30.000 So, you know, I'm very encouraged, and I know there are a lot of people locally and internationally Is that a federal congressman?

00:39:42.000 Yes.

00:39:43.000 How do you spell his name, Jason Chaffetz?

00:39:46.000 Chaffetz, C-H-A-F-F-E-T-Z. 1.00

00:39:51.000 Alright, I want to get him on.

00:39:53.000 Well, okay.

00:39:54.000 He's new into the Congress, his first round, you know, in Congress.

00:40:00.000 So he is a 9-11 truther or he's investigating?

00:40:04.000 I was, he supports an investigation and he wanted to talk to me and so we did for an hour in my apartment.

00:40:09.000 Well, that's fabulous.

00:40:11.000 That is fabulous news.

00:40:14.000 Okay, in the... People are... In the ten minutes... People are... Go ahead.

00:40:19.000 No, no, no.

00:40:20.000 I mean, you were saying that the people are... People are leaning on their congressman to do an investigation.

00:40:29.000 I'm hoping that is, you know, various conditions cause people to wake up, that they will continue to speak out to their congressmen.

00:40:37.000 Not let that down, but now keep the pressure up on the congressmen, and internationally too, so that as David said, we can get the political arm and the legal arm active in pursuing justice and truth.

00:40:51.000 David Ray Griffin, isn't there also a facet to this that the people have learned that when the mainstream media is attacking a 9-11 truth movement or a JFK investigation movement or any other movement, that generally isn't there also a facet to this that the people have learned that when the mainstream media is attacking a 9-11 truth movement or a JFK investigation movement I

00:41:19.000 I mean I found as bad as the History Channel piece was that it seemed to backfire on them and got more people to actually look at the evidence.

00:41:28.000 Well, yeah, and the BBC show had the same effect.

00:41:34.000 Yeah, and just building on what Stephen was saying there, I think that it will take an international movement, and that's why I'm encouraged that Japan, it looks like now, will be putting pressure on Washington and saying, look, we lost some people in the towers.

00:41:58.000 We've only had the assurance of President Bush that these were Muslims who did this.

00:42:05.000 Give us the proof.

00:42:07.000 I understand from Annie McCollum, she was here recently from the UK, the leader of the London movement, and she says that whereas some people in the United States had said things were dying down a little bit here because the Bush-Cheney people would be leaving office, That in Europe it's actually getting much more interest.

00:42:30.000 Well, let me say, it's only getting bigger from what I see in New York this last year and other places.

00:42:35.000 I'm just seeing some fear that, you know, it's a Bush-centric, all about Bush, whereas the very same military industrial complex that did this Uh, is still there.

00:42:46.000 And I think that's the point that has to be made, but we'll see, uh, what Barack Obama does.

00:42:51.000 I mean, I have to tell you, appointing Hillary Clinton, or moving to put her in Secretary of State, and a bunch of other stuff, I think we're going to see betrayal from him.

00:42:58.000 But, we can hope for the best.

00:42:59.000 Final segment with Evan Ray Griffin.

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00:45:59.000 All right, final segments with Professor Stephen Jones, who I want to get back on separately by himself and Edirard Griffin, by himself and their future.

00:46:11.000 But I thought it would be neat to have both of them on together today.

00:46:14.000 Yeah.

00:46:15.000 And we appreciate them joining us.

00:46:17.000 Before I go back to them, PrisonPlanet.tv, all of my films of super high quality, the last hour of the show every day live, with the document cam, the video feeds, extras from films that aren't even on the DVDs, My in-studio reports, just so much, is at PrisonPlanet.tv and your membership there funds this operation and what we do here, $5.95 a month.

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00:47:07.000 I don't care.

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00:47:11.000 So that's my little present to you.

00:47:14.000 Also, We're going to David Ray Griffin.

00:47:17.000 Tell us about your latest book, your seventh book on 9-11.

00:47:23.000 Well, that's the New Pearl Harbor Revisited, and some people have thought it's an update or a revision of the New Pearl Harbor, but not at all.

00:47:33.000 It's a totally new book.

00:47:35.000 The idea is that if a journalist or a politician were going to try to dig into this who knew nothing about it before, It's kind of overwhelming to think, you know, they might have to read 20 journal articles and three or seven books or so.

00:47:52.000 So the idea was to try to get all the most essential information in two books.

00:47:57.000 So it's now a two-volume set, The New Pearl Harbor and The New Pearl Harbor Revisited.

00:48:03.000 And by the way, when you read these books, or you go over the 500 smoking guns of 9-11 online, it is mind-blowing.

00:48:10.000 I mean, just how obvious it is, David.

00:48:14.000 Well that's right, and I've always argued the main thing is a cumulative case that no matter which part of the story you look at, you find outright contradictions and lies.

00:48:28.000 And just assertions that, from a scientific point of view, cannot be true.

00:48:33.000 Well, that's it.

00:48:35.000 It's the covering up.

00:48:36.000 I mean, the other evidence is strong, too.

00:48:39.000 But the covering up, the sneakiness, the lying, the acting so suspicious, I mean, that is really powerful.

00:48:45.000 And in closing, Stephen Jones, your take on that.

00:48:49.000 I mean, is that strong evidence, the way they lie and cover up?

00:48:53.000 Well, sure.

00:48:54.000 And of course, the steel was cut up and shipped out of this country over the protests of many scientists and engineers who felt that this data, this evidence, was crucial in solving and understanding what happened on 9-11.

00:49:11.000 So, and again, now the dust we have is still extant, and I just wanted to re-emphasize, as I'm working with David and others, Kevin Ryan and others, Trying to understand and get samples of this 9-11 dust out to scientists worldwide so that we can really corroborate and confirm the results that we're getting.

00:49:36.000 The findings?

00:49:37.000 Yeah, the residues of explosives.

00:49:40.000 So that people can hear about it from scientists.

00:49:43.000 I believe that there's a lot of trust still in scientists as opposed to politicians, I guess I could say it that way.

00:49:51.000 And I believe if we can get this out to the public and keep that public discussion going based on hard evidence, it will make tremendous strides in the next year.

00:50:01.000 Absolutely.

00:50:02.000 And folks, you can get in contact and read your papers.

00:50:04.000 Tell them the best place for that.

00:50:07.000 Just go to journalof911studies.com, and our other papers that are published in the more established journals are listed right up at the top on the home page.

00:50:17.000 Alright, and then of course for David Ray Griffin's book and other materials, you can just Google David Ray Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited.

00:50:23.000 Gentlemen, I want to thank you both for joining us today, and have a great Thanksgiving coming up next week.

00:50:29.000 Thanks so much.

Alex Jones Show - November 19, 2008

20081119_Wed_Alex

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