In this episode, the guys talk about the latest in the war on terror, and the recent events in the Middle East. They also talk about how to deal with people who don't know what they're doing and why they do it.
00:06:47.000I wonder if somebody would have filled up the internet.
00:06:49.000Chinese are now saying, "Well, you know, we think that the test is coming out, maybe you show fully automatic weapons." Well, I think I'm going to get to the point where you're going to get that.
00:13:46.000If you find somewhere like Rebuildthechurch.com Go to the branch of the Midian Trust Discussion Board Comprehensive thinking is a great part But the discussion board Has moved So it'll tell you where to go Mine's definitely true A little sarcastic You get the sharp T's But not too many It's not huge Very noticeable But it is noticeable And you know what the sarcastic means Defiance
00:14:16.000A large lowercase letter Especially K Anywhere in the writing This high buckle K If a person resists Others authority Sinners from his head And they told what to do What the guys were going to be No Alex, you never resist authority.
00:15:03.000When the second hunt is hired and the first person has a fear of being ridiculed, he tends to worry what others might think when around strangers.
00:15:08.000But I guess you're so confident that it doesn't matter.
00:17:40.000He was his dad on TV. And he'd just been in office a few months.
00:17:45.000And you'd already had the World Trade Center.
00:17:47.000That was in the October 28, 1993. New York Times and Salaam in the World Trade Center bombing.
00:17:55.000Salam was an Egyptian, a former security force agent, over at work for the FBI.
00:18:01.000As the informant said, "You gave me real explosives, you took that bomb, we're going in two days, get them now." We trapped him, they pulled him out, sent in that bomb.
00:23:26.000They made his whole family move out of the house.
00:23:28.000And he would have to come to the roadblock up the other end here every day.
00:23:33.000And they would escort him with two ATF or FBI agents would escort him back to the house so he could feed his animals and then escort him away again.
00:23:44.000Well, here's a question that Ed was asking, Clive.
00:23:51.000And the question is, how could they know that it was going to be around two months, then they send the helicopters to shoot up the water supply, the water tanks, the blue water tanks, to shoot up David's room.
00:24:03.000Do you think they meant the raid to be a so-called boxed raid, having helicopters attack, having them hit the front door?
00:24:11.000Do you think the whole thing was planned?
00:24:12.000I think it was planned all the way from the beginning.
00:24:15.000They told us in court that they rehearsed this thing in Fort Hood back in December.
00:24:21.000They rehearsed it, and they were supposed to have it down flat to where they could have 130 people on the floor in handcuffs to do, I think it was like two minutes flat.
00:24:31.000But they didn't put you in handcuffs in two minutes flat.
00:25:03.000If they told the neighbor to prepare to be gone for two months, and they come in, and the first thing they do is shoot up the water supply, that's not because they're going to have a raid that day and take everybody to jail.
00:25:15.000The thing is, they tell the public they were just trying to serve a legal warrant.
00:25:29.000If anybody had it at all, it was probably one of the guys on a helicopter, but nobody knew what they were supposed to be searching for.
00:25:35.000Well, you've got a 100-man assault team.
00:25:37.000The question is, why would they have helicopters firing from the back simultaneously as the BATF agents' officers near the door?
00:25:47.000They claim their orders were to be a diversion.
00:25:49.000That's what I was going to say to her.
00:25:51.000Well, it sounds to me like they were trying to get you guys, that is the Davidians, to fire to start a firefight like they wanted a confrontation.
00:26:38.000You know, they've stuck to their story that we fired this.50 caliber at them on the first day, then why would somebody be shooting at the tanks with P-Rifles if you got a.50 caliber?
00:26:50.000And if we fired the.50 caliber at them on April 19th, produce the tanks with the big dings in the side of it or holes or whatever.
00:26:58.000Well, if you guys were so bloodthirsty, how could the BATF, at 50 yards away, back away for several minutes with their hands up?
00:27:05.000I mean, if we were a suicide cult and just wanted to go down in a blaze of glory and take as many people as we could with us, none of them would have walked off on February 28th.
00:27:14.000We could have massacred them all and then just wait for the big showdown that came after us.
00:27:20.000But there weren't even any bullet holes in their pickups or in their cattle trailers.
00:27:27.000According to the evidence they showed in court, the cattle truck that pulled up at the front door, you know, that was the second one, It had a bullet hole through the radiator, which when you put a dowel into it, it pointed directly up the road at the other cattle truck.
00:27:46.000Also, the driver jumped out and left the door open, and there's a bullet hole through the top of the open door and into the roof of the cab on the offside from the building, which means somebody over there was shooting from the houses or somebody.
00:28:14.000He's saying that they got bullet holes in some of the vehicles, but a lot of them, or several of them at least...
00:28:21.000Not bullet holes that we could have shot.
00:28:23.000They're on the far side, away from the building.
00:28:25.000Well, that's been brought forward in several different films and a lot of the evidence.
00:28:29.000Even the heavily edited VATF footage shows one of their own officers throwing in some type of grenade, whether it's flashbang or phosphorus or explosive.
00:29:37.000According to the testimony in the trial, all three of them end up getting out of that room.
00:29:42.000The only damage, any of them, including the guy that looks like he gets shot in the head, he kind of rolls over and the bullets come through the wall.
00:30:17.000Everybody concentrates on the guys that go up the right-hand side because they're trying to get in that window and they're jerking on the curtain.
00:30:22.000You don't see what the other team did when they went over the hump.
00:30:31.000Could have been the sniper teams in the house.
00:30:33.000No, it could have been the helicopters rolling up.
00:30:35.000They're out here shooting up at David's room.
00:30:38.000You know, and that's where they're trying to get into what they thought was David's room.
00:30:42.000Two of these guys, I think two of them end up dead, one of them end up wounded, and he end up rolling off the roof, from what I understand.
00:30:49.000That's the one they come around and pick up out of the courtyard here.
00:31:19.000The only time I saw the helicopter in the initial raid was as I was going down the hall, which was out toward the driveway there, and I could see right through into the cafeteria and there was a door out.
00:31:33.000As I went by, I could see this helicopter turning away.
00:31:37.000He was just in the process of turning away and doing a U-turn sort of thing.
00:31:42.000And when we went to trial in San Antonio, they got up and said, oh, they didn't get any closer than, I forget how many hundred meters or something.
00:32:35.000I was going to say, I don't know on each individual point that came out that the jury was qualified to know whether they were being lied to or not initially.
00:32:46.000But I know a lot of them are pretty upset.
00:32:50.000After they find out all the skullduggery that went on in the court, all the information that's come out since, Sarah Bain has spoken out plenty of times.
00:34:05.000Well, we're only going to be, you know, you're only going to be on the jury from 9 until about 4. He says, you can squeeze the milk out, put it in a bottle and have a babysitter feed the baby during the day.
00:34:52.000A note was apparently handed to the judge, came from the jury.
00:34:57.000People on the jury were letting the judge know that the guy that was on the jury had already made his mind up before he heard anything, that we were guilty.
00:35:10.000And so they brought this to the judge.
00:35:11.000Instead of dismissing him and saying, you can't be on the jury with that kind of attitude, they just kind of gave him a slap on the wrist and said, well, do you promise not?
00:36:00.000But instead of kicking the guy off the jury and kicking someone else, you know, putting one of the ultimates in his place or something, they kept him on.
00:36:08.000Just with a kind of a warning, you know.
00:36:45.000They said to the prosecutors, we feel that it's only fair that you let us, at some point, write in self-defense into the charges.
00:36:57.000And from what I understand, the prosecuting attorney says, well, we'll let you write self-defense if you let us write in voluntary manslaughter.
00:37:26.000But anyway, the thing is, when it came down to separating the jury, from what I understand, the judge gave the jury instructions on how to vote, you know.
00:37:40.000And on the third count, which is apparently where they...
00:37:43.000The third count was having a weapon during the commission of violent crime.
00:37:47.000You know, going into the trial, we were told that was a five to ten year sentence if you were found guilty.
00:37:53.000Somewhere along the way, when they made this deal, they put all this extra wording into the third charge.
00:39:00.000In their initial reports on February 28th or afterwards when they're talking to the Texas Rangers, one guy says, well, we got out of the first truck, we ran around the north end of the building, and we just got around the corner.
00:39:16.000Here's three guys standing in the backyard, two white guys and a black guy.
00:40:33.000So anyway, what I've said all along, I said, okay, what they do is nobody can identify who these people are until somewhere during the siege, May, not May, March the 15th or something, you know, Livingston, David sends Livingston out with a message to the FBI. The next thing we know, it's in the press, Livingston's the guy that shot this ATF agent.
00:42:03.000Well, I always thought you could put anybody you wanted to on the stand.
00:42:05.000So anyway, so then our lawyers filed a motion to separate Livingston from the rest of the trial, you know, have a separate trial, and then we could testify.
00:42:14.000And that was denied, as were most of the things we had.
00:42:17.000Let me stop you for just a second, Clive.
00:42:19.000On this issue of the counts, you're saying there's three counts.
00:42:23.000There were several counts beyond that, but everybody had the first three.
00:44:03.000They found everybody not guilty on conspiracy, and they found everybody not guilty of murder.
00:44:08.000What the jury did, because of the various testimony that was given, like I said, whether it was true or false, the fact that we didn't put a defense on left that testimony standing.
00:44:21.000And so they said, well, we've got people saying, well, so-and-so had a gun, or this guy saying, I had a gun.
00:44:29.000And so they came up with guilty on the gun charge.
00:44:32.000They went through the other charges, either guilty or not guilty, depending on what they were.
00:44:36.000So, guilty in having a gun in a crime when you were found not guilty of the main crime?
00:44:43.000Right after the jury uttered their verdict, the judge dismisses it.
00:44:48.000Both sides, all the lawyers from both sides, run up to the bench and say, Judge, how can you have people guilty of having a weapon during the commission of a crime if they're found not guilty of a crime?
00:44:58.000He says, yeah, you're right, the jury messed up, you know, and I've already dismissed them, and, you know, if I had to find them all again and bring them back, I'd have to instruct them they made a mistake, and all they could do if they were going to change it at all would be to say not guilty, so I'll just scrap the third count.
00:45:22.000The feds had already filed a reinstatement of a third count, and the judge turned around and changed his mind, and on the strength of that, I think in June or July, when he came down to the sentencing, he gives them 10 years plus 30. So they were guilty of conspiracy, guilty of murder, guilty of having automatic weapons, which was never proved.
00:47:26.000What do you think the Supreme Court's going to do?
00:47:28.000Well, I'm hoping they'll let them out.
00:47:30.000You know, if they'd have got, let's say they'd have got the gun charge, if it would have held up at all, and it was a five to ten year sentence.
00:47:38.000These guys have done seven years already.
00:47:40.000If you're in federal prison, you're supposed to be out of...
00:47:43.000Unless you get no good time at all, if the judge refuses to let you out on good time, normally you can do 80%.
00:47:51.000In other words, in eight years, they would have been out.
00:47:53.000The way he's given them 40 years, these bodies aren't coming out under normal circumstances.
00:51:27.000To have him refusing to recuse himself in the civil case where you're trying to take action, get back your good name, you lost your daughter, you lost your friends.
00:51:36.000After all of this, he will not recuse himself.
00:51:40.000I remember seven months ago when he was all acting like he was going to be Mr. Goody Two-Shoes.
00:51:45.000You said on my radio program, and I agreed that...
00:51:48.000You think it's the same old fraud all over again, just more acting?
00:51:51.000He's still playing the same role he played seven years ago or six years ago.
00:51:56.000So what do you think of Judge Walter Smith?
00:51:59.000I don't think much of Judge Walter Smith, period.
00:52:01.000But what I think, what I can't understand is how the media or the courts or whoever has any authority in this country can look at the evidence of this man's performance, both in the trial and since, and say that this guy is unbiased.
00:52:19.000I don't see how anybody, including the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, can say, well, this guy is not a biased judge.
00:52:26.000How can they call former Senator John Danforth an independent counselor, an independent investigator, when he's appointed by Janet Reno, the attorney general, to investigate Janet Reno, the attorney general?
00:52:38.000Well, I think they can call them whatever they like in this country because they tend to screw the English language up pretty good.
00:52:43.000They take the meaning away from words and...
00:52:47.000And, you know, things don't have the same value as they used to when we were in school.
00:52:52.000Would you say to people out there they better watch the words and better see what's...
00:52:55.000Well, I'm saying, you know, there's a lot of catchphrases, a lot of double talk, there's a lot of deception and covering up, and I don't know what the real meaning of the word independent is in their mind, but I know what it means to me, and I don't know whether he fits the bill.
00:53:19.000Well, I've been told by the Surviving Marriage Opinions like yourself, drugs were...
00:53:22.000David would have somebody thrown out of here if they were doing drugs.
00:53:25.000People that had done drugs or having a problem, whether it was drinking, smoking, or whatever, that wanted to come here and make a new start, were invited to come.
00:53:36.000But if the temptation got so great that they couldn't resist, they were asked to leave.
00:53:46.000What had gone on prior to our, you might say, being in charge here was way back in the 80s, mid-80s.
00:53:58.000There was a lab, George Roden had invited some former prisoners to come out here and gave them pretty well free reign to do what they liked.
00:54:11.000Pornography ring and a drug lab and stuff, from what I understand.
00:54:15.000When David came here, when we came back and got our property back in 1988, some of this stuff was found, which we handed over to the Sheriff's Department.
00:54:26.000So it was pretty clear, at least with the locals, that you guys were anti-drug.
00:54:41.000I don't know about the sheriff's department doing that, but we didn't have a shooting range.
00:54:44.000We had a heap of dirt out there, which people would stick a tin can on us and blocks of wood, you know, and maybe try out shooting a little bit, but we didn't have a shooting range.
00:54:54.000We didn't have military training camp and all that kind of stuff that you hear.
00:54:58.000Well, I mean, for me, shooting range is a term in the backyard.
00:55:01.000Well, what I said, we didn't have targets.
00:55:03.000We didn't have, you know, measured distances or anything.
00:55:33.000But, you know, you hear a lot of stories about what was going on in the ATF. Sexual discrimination within the department, the stories of them being dissolved or reabsorbed into another agency.
00:55:49.000Did you ever hear about their Klan meeting when they got caught?
00:55:51.000From our point of view, I believe that, like the Bible says, there's a devil out there and the devil wants to do away with anybody that's trying to improve their lifestyle to do better.
00:56:07.000You start studying the Bible, you're already under suspicion and suspect, and the devil wants to get rid of those kind of people.
00:56:14.000And unfortunately, there are people that lend themselves to bringing that about.
00:56:19.000You know, when it says the devil goes to make a war against the saints, it could be supernatural, but I think it's done through human beings that allow themselves to be directed in that line.
00:58:43.000I got more reason to believe our guys than I do in these lives, you know.
00:58:47.000So, like I said, if we had it, and if it was automatic, and if we were shooting at them on the first day, then on the last day they got all these tanks busting through into the building.
00:59:11.000They got all these voices from all over the building.
00:59:13.000They've only got one bug tape, they said, that works, but they're supposedly picking voices up from upstairs, downstairs, in the foyer, all over the place.
00:59:21.000Yeah, but they already, I think it was about three or four weeks ago they already said it.
00:59:25.000That was like all spliced together and tampered with and it's not even a real tape.
00:59:30.000Even though it's spliced, if it's only from one bug, you're not going to hear voices from all over the village.
00:59:56.000I mean, when you're in this kind of a situation, when you're getting all these threats, like we were being told even before April 9th, we don't want anybody in the tower.
01:00:09.000If we see anybody in the tower, we'll consider that a threatening gesture.
01:00:13.000We don't want anybody looking out the windows.
01:00:15.000They start making demands more and more as they got to the end.
01:00:21.000Like I say, that develops an attitude.
01:00:23.000I can remember talking to people in the chat and saying, well, if they do come in with tanks, like, how do you stop a tank for crying out loud?
01:00:30.000You know, because you're thinking all kinds of things.
01:00:33.000What you can do, you know, stick a crowbar in the truck.
01:00:36.000Clive, what about them also calling a few days before the final assault, final attack, where they told you it wasn't an assault, with classic doublespeak?
01:00:46.000Clive, what about them calling and saying, you better have fire extinguishers, or do you have any fire extinguishers?
01:00:52.000That call, from what I understand, was made, I'm not sure of the date, a few days before, I guess, before the last day.
01:01:01.000And Steve Schneider, I believe, was on the phone, and they asked him, did we have any fire extinguishers?
01:01:07.000And he didn't even know, so he kind of asked somebody to run and find out.
01:01:11.000And then he tells them, well, I'm told we got one.
01:01:15.000And the guy is supposed to have said, you know, you better get yourself some fire insurance.
01:01:20.000But, you know, that's not a first-hand story.
01:01:22.000I mean, other than listening to the tape.
01:01:27.000Clyde, the reason I'm asking so much about that.50 caliber on that first day is, wasn't it on the first day when that helicopter was shot down?
01:01:44.000None of them, well, I don't know whether it couldn't fly again.
01:01:48.000I don't think it was totally crippled, but it did take some shots, yeah.
01:01:53.000And the reason I ask that, if there is any evidence, like if they use 50-caliber, maybe on the other helicopters or something, shooting up the building, or if there's any 50-caliber fire at all, is because...
01:02:45.000A buddy of his is a maintenance chief, or was at that time a maintenance chief for those helicopters out at Fort Hood.
01:02:53.000And I think it was the day after, one or two days after, when they assaulted a place here, Mario went up to Fort Hood, talked to this guy, and the guy pointed out a.50 caliber hole.
01:03:34.000A friend in Houston showed us some footage that he had of where these helicopters are flying, you know, they're coming in, approaching the place.
01:03:41.000And then it has this footage where they land in a field out here somewhere.
01:03:45.000I guess it was down over the hill near this neighbor's house.
01:03:48.000And they get out and point right at the hole.
01:03:51.000And I said, there's something wrong with this footage.
01:03:54.000They know exactly where the holes are before they even get out.
01:04:13.000Yeah, they didn't actually shoot the helicopter down, but they put holes in it.
01:04:17.000And 50 caliber holes just so they could say that y'all had a 50 caliber machine gun.
01:04:22.000Clive, you said earlier, if they want to burn this down together, they're you said earlier, if they want to burn this down together, they're going to have some trouble, Yeah, we'd even have trouble.
01:04:59.000And that's what you have to put your trust in.
01:05:01.000You know, the final bottom line is whether you believe, you know, in God or not.
01:05:09.000There's a question in the Bible, or a statement, I should say, that says, you know, if the builders build without God on their side, then they build in vain.
01:05:20.000So that's one reason we need to be considerate of how we act and what we talk about and everything else while we're in it.
01:05:27.000This is a special place, you know, it's not just a...
01:06:31.000They had a church up the front gate, you know, when I first came.
01:06:34.000I was doing a job in there one day and the ladder slipped out from under me and the ladder fell down and I landed on my back on top of the ladder.
01:06:43.000So I was laying there for quite a while before I could get up and I'm looking at the ceiling and all of a sudden my brain just kind of flipped over to where the ceiling looked like the floor.
01:07:10.000Right after the raid, when the ATF and everybody are giving this press conference and everything, they're talking about how we ambushed them and we were all at the windows shooting and all that.
01:08:07.000So, they come along one day with the tanks, and they're bulldozing all the trees down the fence.
01:08:13.000And I had a tree right outside my window.
01:08:15.000They bulldozed that tree and a branch comes right through the window.
01:08:18.000There goes my evidence that there was no shooting on February 28th because the glass is all smashed up, you know?
01:08:24.000Now, Clive, what did you think when you were told a few minutes before they got here that, hey, somebody's coming out to search the house or the BATF or the police or something?
01:08:34.000What did you think was going to happen if they did come out here for your search?
01:09:08.000Somebody was watching us, but we thought maybe it was immigration people because we had people from all over the world here and we figured they're suspicious, you know, they're watching to see who we got here.
01:10:27.000I heard him walk down the hall, heard him open the front door, and next thing, he's yelling, hey, wait a minute, there's women and children here, you know.
01:11:04.000He's laying on the floor and screaming.
01:11:06.000And I said, hang in there, Perry, because I'm thinking there's all these other people dead inside the front door or whatever.
01:11:13.000So I go running down there, and lo and behold, there's no one inside, no one in the foyer area at all.
01:11:17.000So I run back to Perry, and I'm trying to help him.
01:11:21.000So on the tape, as we see the BATF from the outside firing in incessantly, you guys are just going around trying to look for people that have been shot.
01:11:28.000You guys aren't lining the windows shooting like the television shows us?
01:12:54.000So when I get to his doorway and I look in, he's laying on the floor in a pool of blood and water, and his windows all shattered.
01:13:02.000And he had these water tanks out on a platform at the back, and they were completely blocking his windows.
01:13:08.000Not like you could see in or he could see out.
01:13:11.000These big plastic water tanks were right up against his window.
01:13:14.000But what the helicopters had done, it riddled all the water tanks, and he was sitting on the other side of it and got a bullet in the head.
01:13:57.000In fact, one day during the siege, I was going by the doorway there, and I looked in, and Greg's sitting, he'd gone upstairs and got all the boys' little plastic toy soldiers, you know, little plastic men and that, and he's sitting there with a little dinky miniature blowtorch thing, trying to melt the plastic men to plug up the holes in the water tank, because we were going to try to get the pump going again.
01:15:18.000And so I went down to the kitchen here and packed a lunch, paper bag lunch, you know, for my daughter and I. And I'm thinking, you know, we'll all just go out and we'll sit on the lawn and they'll come in here and search the building, get whatever they come to get.
01:15:31.000And when they're through, we'll all come back in.
01:16:02.000If somebody come out on the roof, if they come out a window or doorway, for whatever reason, including Steve Schneider, who had already arranged over the phones to come out, they were going to bring some kind of stuff in.
01:16:15.000I don't know whether it was the supplies for the typewriter or what.
01:16:18.000They were bringing something in in a tank.
01:16:19.000They pulled up out there on the driver.
01:16:21.000He came out the front door, walked over to him.
01:18:00.000Do you think it was good cop, bad cop psychology?
01:18:03.000I think some of the negotiators genuinely were upset that they were losing credibility because of the actions of the people in the tanks and so forth.
01:18:13.000I think, you know, one was hurting the other's efforts.
01:18:16.000So you think the negotiators and the troops out here actually had a little bit of a feud going, or you don't know?
01:18:22.000Yeah, I think there's a certain amount of rivalry.
01:18:24.000I think there's, you know, they like to throw up at David.
01:18:29.000When we didn't come out as agreed early in the piece, they made this accusation.
01:18:42.000And on one of the tapes, you know, David brings up and says, well, you know, you promised certain things the other day, and now it's different, or, you know, you didn't come through for us.
01:18:53.000Well, you've got to understand, we're just peons.
01:18:56.000You know, we're just here doing the negotiating, but we've got bosses over us making decisions.
01:19:01.000Well, then how can we make a deal with you?
01:19:02.000And then, you know, they've got bosses in Washington that overrule them, and you've just got to understand, we really don't have a whole lot of power.
01:19:11.000And David says, well, why is it that you can't understand that I've got a boss upstairs that sometimes overrules, you know, something we've agreed on yesterday?
01:19:52.000Even though things may or may not, I don't know people's hearts, but at one point the people from the Methodist home where they were taking all our kids, they sent a video in supposedly to show us how well they were treating our kids.
01:20:11.000We've got the TV blaring and the kids have got an ice cream and a coke and watching videos and they're just bouncing off the furniture like they're having a sugar high.
01:20:22.000And most of the mothers that saw it were pretty upset and gone, that is not the way we taught our children to behave.
01:20:28.000It's not that we wouldn't give them that ice cream.
01:20:31.000Or something, a drink, you know, from time to time, but it wasn't their steady diet.
01:20:35.000But they thought they were being good to the kids by just loading them up with sugar and stuff.
01:20:39.000And like I said, one of the comments I heard was, this is sad, you know.
01:20:45.000You wouldn't think some of these kids just saw their mother shot or saw some of their friends wounded a few days before.
01:20:53.000Here they are, clowning for the camera and all this kind of stuff.
01:20:59.000And, you know, like I said, the people that made the video may have had good intentions, but it was used, it had a negative effect, we'll say, on us.
01:21:08.000A lot of the parents that still had children, they were hesitant about wanting to send them out to this kind of a situation.
01:21:16.000The same with when, you know, you made reference to the mooning and giving the finger and making threats and all.
01:21:23.000It all develops an attitude in the people that you're dealing with.
01:22:31.000Well, I mean, like I said, we were used to hardship.
01:22:34.000The hardship was bothering us in a way, but it wasn't having the desired effect that they wanted it to have.
01:22:40.000In other words, several people that survived and came out, I know, lost 25 to 30 pounds, including myself, in weight just from lack of water and food because we were on rations.
01:22:54.000We weren't mad because we were hungry, sort of thing.
01:22:57.000We were more upset with the attitudes that were coming across the phones or the loudspeakers.
01:23:06.000The fact that they weren't operating in good faith.
01:23:10.000Plus, you know, we're watching them every day get up and do these media briefings at 10 o'clock every morning at the convention center and they're just lying or they're painting a picture that's just making us look like You know, kooks.
01:23:25.000Bob, did you ever stop and think that while this is going on, it's setting the stage for, hey, the government's good, we go raid bad people, we take them out, they're kooks, you're on our side, we're the winning team, kind of like a Super Bowl mentality nationwide for 51 days?
01:23:43.000What I see with law enforcement and government agents, especially on the federal level, is that...
01:23:51.000They want to come across as a good guy.
01:23:56.000They want to be the public to believe in them.
01:24:01.000But in all reality, the bottom line is they don't give a damn what you think.
01:24:07.000But they would like you to think that they're a good guy.
01:24:09.000So they'll go to a certain amount of subterfuge and lying and painting the other guy bad.
01:24:17.000To make themselves look good, they'd like you to accept that image, but if you don't, they really don't care.
01:24:22.000They're going to do what they're going to do anyway.
01:24:24.000Well, the big thing is they want to get local support because Climb, the last seven years, we're coming up on seven years, coming up on April 19th here in 2000. I've talked to so many SWAT team, police, military, government agents, talked to them across the board on the radio and off the air.
01:24:42.000They say that starting seven years ago, Waco was the kickoff for merging the military and the police.
01:24:49.000Just like, you know, Reagan and Brady and all them people getting wounded was enough to start all this gun legislation and things like that.