Alex Jones Show - January 01, 1997


Alex Jones Interviews Joe Banister Former IRS Special Agent


Episode Stats


Length

25 minutes

Words per minute

168.46906

Word count

4,310

Sentence count

298

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Alex Blumberg and Walter B. Birian discuss the current state of the American people and how they are being used as political props by the Federal Reserve and the Department of the Treasury. We are at a crossroads. We either go into total subjugation or we go into Total Independence.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Alex Jones Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Yeah, these empires are militarizing, building prisons, county cities, the feds here in Austin, the states, they just built a $93 million justice center.
00:00:10.000 You can't get into it.
00:00:12.000 The stairs aren't for your use.
00:00:14.000 There's one elevator, lines of people, cops with submachine guns, black uniforms, combat boots, barbed wire, prisons everywhere, armored personnel carriers, cameras, microphones hanging out of the trees.
00:00:28.000 They're militarizing against us, and why are they doing that?
00:00:33.000 They're protecting the empire.
00:00:35.000 I mean, the Roman Empire did the same.
00:00:37.000 Every empire that's ever existed on this planet has done the same.
00:00:42.000 They use the populace. 0.82
00:00:44.000 If the populace revolts or objects, then they get more strong-handed with the populace.
00:00:50.000 In fact, what they do is, if the populace objects, they will take more revenue from the populace to make the populace weak.
00:00:57.000 So they cannot object.
00:00:59.000 And currently, right now, I hear people screaming all over the country they're being raped financially, losing their houses, their jobs, everything else, and being threatened with being put in jail if they don't pay the extortion tariff.
00:01:15.000 Yeah, I know people in South Austin who are retired, who have like maybe $30,000 in the bank they saved, they have nothing, they have one old car that barely works, and the IRS is...
00:01:24.000 Hey! 0.99
00:01:26.000 You owe us money.
00:01:27.000 Well, no I don't.
00:01:27.000 We don't want your receipts.
00:01:29.000 Give us $10,000 now and we'll leave you alone. 0.86
00:01:30.000 Oh, we're just taking your house.
00:01:32.000 They have a heart attack.
00:01:33.000 Then they get it all.
00:01:34.000 I mean, and it's in the name, well, we gotta, you know, pave the roads and gotta have defense.
00:01:39.000 Well, the course in the road right now, the other path is a thousand years of prosperity.
00:01:44.000 You know, the true meaning of the word millennium, we're at a crossroads.
00:01:48.000 We either go into total subjugation or we go into total independence.
00:01:53.000 We're telling you that they didn't have any money.
00:01:55.000 They were telling you that there was a small surplus and we had this big phony fight over who would get little bits and pieces out of it.
00:02:03.000 I mean, ladies and gentlemen, they're taking over.
00:02:05.000 They own most of the stock market.
00:02:07.000 They almost own everything.
00:02:08.000 Do a search on the net for CAFR. You'll get the government's own sites everywhere.
00:02:13.000 What is essential at this point in time, Alex, is to get a model up on the playing field.
00:02:17.000 Once the model is up, by example, the game is over.
00:02:21.000 So get a city or county, preferably a county, to do it.
00:02:24.000 Show people taxation phased out in three years.
00:02:27.000 Show people with surpluses on top of that.
00:02:30.000 Show them the fraud, that they really own everything, and that we supposedly own this country, and that everybody else will follow suit.
00:02:36.000 If not, we're enslaved.
00:02:37.000 You are the leaders out there.
00:02:39.000 You better take action on this, ladies and gentlemen.
00:02:42.000 It's up to you.
00:02:43.000 Thank you for joining us, Walter Birian.
00:02:46.000 And then there's the government always telling you, turn in your guns.
00:02:50.000 Everything's going to be fine.
00:02:51.000 Everything's going to be wonderful.
00:02:53.000 Oh, we had to take those old retired people's home over there in the working-class neighborhood. 1.00
00:02:58.000 They didn't pay their taxes.
00:03:01.000 Everybody's got to tighten their belt.
00:03:03.000 Well, here is a former Treasury agent, Joe Bannister.
00:03:07.000 In the last two years, Mr. Bannister has gone public on national television, in the newspapers, you name it, about how the IRS is a collection agency for the private run-for-profit Federal Reserve that's, well, running this whole comprehensive annual financial report scam that we've just exposed.
00:03:26.000 Oh, yes, ladies and gentlemen, more and more Americans are fighting this and coming out against the developments.
00:03:32.000 It's time for you to join the team.
00:03:34.000 Many hands make light work.
00:03:36.000 The IRS is a criminal organization.
00:03:38.000 The 16th Amendment was never ratified to give you the income tax.
00:03:42.000 You pay your taxes to the private banks.
00:03:45.000 It's called the New World Order. 0.85
00:03:47.000 And now they want to THX 1138 you.
00:03:49.000 That is dumb you down 110%.
00:03:52.000 Well, we're here in Northern California.
00:03:55.000 And a few weeks ago, on my radio program, we talked to Joe Bannister.
00:04:01.000 In fact, his story's starting to gain a lot of attention.
00:04:03.000 There's going to be an article in Media Bypass.
00:04:05.000 He's been doing a lot of...
00:04:07.000 Radio interviews with people that are interested in the truth of what's really happening.
00:04:12.000 He also has a website that contains the letter that he wrote to the IRS commissioner, Charles Rossetti.
00:04:20.000 And again, his name is Joe Bannister, and he was a special treasury agent assigned to the IRS to investigate people that were filing fraudulent tax returns or simply hiding assets.
00:04:34.000 And thanks a lot for spending some time with us, Mr. Bannister.
00:04:37.000 God bless.
00:04:38.000 Thanks, Alex.
00:04:39.000 Basically, just start out and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you stumbled upon the truth.
00:04:47.000 Well, I started out as a CPA. I worked in public accounting, and I decided that I wanted a little more excitement, and I decided to become a law enforcement officer in the federal government.
00:05:03.000 His job is to collect income taxes and some excise taxes.
00:05:08.000 And the Criminal Investigation Division, which I was a part, investigates criminal violations of those tax laws.
00:05:17.000 Tell us how it all began.
00:05:20.000 What made you first want to investigate the Internal Revenue Code yourself and not just take the manuals and the codes that you used when investigating?
00:05:31.000 Tax evaders.
00:05:33.000 Well, in December of 1996, I was listening to the radio here in the Bay Area, and I heard a lady named DV Kidd come on the radio, and she started saying some very unbelievable things, like the income tax was voluntary, that the 16th Amendment was never ratified, and that federal income taxes don't go towards providing revenue for the U.S. government.
00:05:59.000 And I thought those...
00:06:01.000 Claims were awfully outrageous, but she was talking about it on a radio show hosted by a man who I trusted, and that made me want to dig deeper and see what it was she was saying and what evidence she had to back it up.
00:06:17.000 Absolutely.
00:06:18.000 And so, in 1996, you started investigating.
00:06:21.000 How long did you investigate before you came to your conclusions?
00:06:25.000 A little over two years.
00:06:28.000 Basically, my investigation ended right about the time I was forced to resign.
00:06:33.000 Can you tell us that story and also get into some of the things that you uncovered that are historical?
00:06:40.000 Well, I'd say after a good year, year and a half, I basically in my mind came to the realization that all her claims were correct, that in fact the income tax was voluntary.
00:06:53.000 Although it sounds kind of strange to be saying that because we all know that people go to prison, they lose their homes, they have their wages garnished.
00:07:02.000 But the reason that the IRS constantly refers to the income tax as being voluntary is because of our U.S. Constitution and the severe limitations that are placed on the federal government's ability to tax us.
00:07:21.000 There are only certain forms of constitutional taxation.
00:07:24.000 That's correct.
00:07:25.000 Our income taxes do not, you know, provide revenue as I always believed they did.
00:07:30.000 It's more like a cash advance type system where the federal government borrows fiat money from the Federal Reserve and then our income taxes are used as a vehicle to pay interest on that debt.
00:07:45.000 Well, the printing of the money, another thing that I found out which totally surprised me.
00:07:52.000 was that they print the money and there's no value to it and they, in a sense, print it out of nothing.
00:08:00.000 They make it out of nothing simply because they have the power to force us to use the currency.
00:08:08.000 And it's kind of like a rat in a maze.
00:08:10.000 And we never question the maze itself, never think outside the box.
00:08:13.000 And that's why you're rare.
00:08:14.000 Well, more and more people are in government standing up because it's becoming more and more clear, but it's still rare in the IRS, Mr. Bannister, for somebody to actually pull back and see this.
00:08:23.000 What was it like, let's say, a year into your studies?
00:08:26.000 Because you say you studied for about two years before you finally made your decision with the evidence.
00:08:30.000 What was it like about a year into it?
00:08:32.000 It was very difficult because I took the job thinking that I could use my financial skills to fight crime, go after the bad guys, and I did.
00:08:41.000 Money launderers, drug smugglers, one particular case was even featured on America's Most Wanted, so I was really enjoying myself.
00:08:51.000 So it really shook my belief system to its very foundations and it was really very difficult for me to continue.
00:09:00.000 Doing the job and excelling at it because my mental state was...
00:09:07.000 It was difficult to go to work every day, even though I wasn't daily arresting tax evaders or people that didn't file tax returns.
00:09:17.000 I wasn't personally doing that, but I still just felt really...
00:09:22.000 It was very difficult to just go through the day-to-day process of the job knowing what I was finding out.
00:09:28.000 Because you found out that you were putting people in jail for something that the very system itself was doing.
00:09:33.000 At least the agency as a whole was doing that, and I felt that sooner or later I needed to start speaking out publicly because I felt clearly a tax can only be voluntary or mandatory, and if it is voluntary, then it is wrong and illegal to...
00:09:51.000 Prosecute, harass, seize money from people who don't volunteer.
00:09:56.000 Where does the money go?
00:09:57.000 They throw this fiat money out there, we take the money up, and correct me if I'm wrong, we put labor into it, we work to attain it, and thus they steal our labor.
00:10:08.000 In a sense, that's correct.
00:10:10.000 I mean, for quite some time, I'd hear DV Kidd talking about...
00:10:16.000 You know, the Federal Reserve and how we're slaves.
00:10:19.000 And I didn't really understand what she meant.
00:10:21.000 But when you really spend a little time and educate yourself on the way the process works, it's really very simple economics.
00:10:29.000 And I don't have an economics degree or anything like that.
00:10:32.000 But you can eventually see that when the source of the money supply is a bank and the destination of the money supply is a bank, And the controller of the money supply is a bank and the interest rates.
00:10:48.000 That's total, complete monopoly.
00:10:50.000 It's a money trust.
00:10:51.000 You basically have no...
00:10:52.000 You can't get out of the slavery.
00:10:54.000 You can't get out of the constantly increasing supply of money, which is another thing I noticed and never really thought about, is that although they constantly will tell you that we're trying to keep inflation under control, we're trying to minimize it, minimize the effects of it.
00:11:10.000 If you look at it over a period of decades, it's always going up.
00:11:15.000 It never goes down or disappears.
00:11:19.000 It's basically on an upward tilt forever and ever and ever.
00:11:23.000 The economics of it, eventually, it ends up destroying the economy and the people in it.
00:11:30.000 You have to ask yourself, why would this global system want to do that?
00:11:33.000 It's just all about power.
00:11:34.000 It's modern colonialism.
00:11:35.000 Well, again, it's economic slavery, and it's something that...
00:11:40.000 It took me until the age of 35 to go out and do my own personal investigation to understand how it works.
00:11:47.000 I never learned it at the university, didn't learn it on the CPA exam, didn't learn it in the Big 8 accounting firm, and certainly didn't learn it at the IRS. That's right.
00:11:57.000 You went to one of the biggest and best accounting schools.
00:12:00.000 Well, I worked three years at KPMG Pete Marlick, but I never...
00:12:05.000 Never was taught.
00:12:07.000 I had to go out and learn it on my own.
00:12:09.000 And luckily, DV Kidd was on a radio station that I gave some credibility to.
00:12:14.000 If I had heard her just on a street corner or at a meeting somewhere, I probably would have just kept on walking.
00:12:21.000 I mean, just basically, is there anything you want to say to the people in Austin, Texas, Central Texas, people that tape this show and send it out to friends and family as well?
00:12:28.000 I guess the only thing I would say is I've seen evidence of an orchestrated campaign of painting a broad brush over people like Alex who really are telling you the truth.
00:12:43.000 And I was one of those people that thought these were all kooky ideas, but I've come to realize that they are very true and very serious.
00:12:55.000 And I'm very afraid for my own family, our own Americans' ability to make a living, to have a country that has a manufacturing base, to have a future.
00:13:10.000 Our country is close to being destroyed economically through the banking and monetary system.
00:13:17.000 And it's about time that people realize that they're being lied to.
00:13:21.000 And they should start listening to people like Alex, because he is telling you the truth.
00:13:27.000 I've checked it out.
00:13:29.000 And then what happened when you tried to show this to your superiors?
00:13:32.000 Well, there came a point when I realized that what I had to do was consolidate all of my evidence and facts into a central location, so I decided to write a report.
00:13:48.000 And it's very similar to what I do in the Treasury Department, which was I'd investigate an allegation, I'd go out and interview witnesses, gather evidence, gather documents, follow the paper trail, and then summarize all that evidence and present a report to my superiors, which would either recommend that the person be prosecuted.
00:14:11.000 Or recommend that the investigation be discontinued because there was not enough evidence to sustain a prosecution.
00:14:18.000 So I put that evidence together, and I submitted it to my immediate superior, and I asked that it be submitted right up the chain to Commissioner Rosati.
00:14:30.000 I realized that what I was doing was going to rock the boat quite a bit, but I also knew that I had checked every one of these facts out.
00:14:40.000 And was over 100% certain of my findings.
00:14:45.000 On February 8th of 1999 is actually the day that I submitted my report.
00:14:51.000 And I asked that the commissioner or his designee commit in writing within 30 days to review my report.
00:15:01.000 And I was only asking for a commitment.
00:15:03.000 I didn't say, I want all the answers in 30 days.
00:15:06.000 Just commit to me, you'll look at it.
00:15:09.000 I'm a federal law enforcement officer.
00:15:11.000 I've sworn to support and defend the Constitution, and I really see some serious constitutional problems with the federal income tax.
00:15:20.000 So that was February 8th.
00:15:22.000 February 11th, it went to my boss's boss, and from February 11th to February 17th, it went all the way to 1111 Constitution Avenue in Washington, D.C. And that's Rosati's office?
00:15:33.000 That's where Rosati, his office is, as well as the Assistant Commissioner for Criminal Investigation.
00:15:39.000 And I was told that my report not only went to Constitution Avenue, but at a minimum, the Assistant Commissioner for Criminal Investigation was aware of my report and the basics for what I was presenting.
00:15:51.000 Believe me, your report went right to Alan Greenspan.
00:15:53.000 Or a word of it.
00:15:54.000 A briefing did.
00:15:56.000 Well, it turns out that on the...
00:15:59.000 Let's see.
00:16:01.000 Well, see, that's the one thing they guard at the upper levels is the great evil.
00:16:05.000 And the one thing they cannot deal with...
00:16:08.000 They cannot stop credible people from within their system coming out against them.
00:16:11.000 And now you're doing magazine interviews and radio interviews, and you've got the evidence, you've got your website up.
00:16:16.000 Listen, what would you say, before we finish the story, what would you say to the other IRS agents and the other law enforcement out there about this?
00:16:23.000 I mean, you've taken a real risk here in what you've done.
00:16:27.000 I'm taking an incredible risk, but I believe that the risk of doing nothing is even worse.
00:16:34.000 What federal law enforcement officers need to realize, as well as every state and local officer, is that the laws that the IRS agents are enforcing, they shouldn't be enforcing.
00:16:48.000 And I don't believe that they should be cooperated with.
00:16:51.000 If somebody is being prosecuted for failing to file a tax return...
00:16:56.000 And they have done the research and found that there is no requirement to file a tax return, then I feel it's morally and legally wrong, you know, for that person to be pursued, investigated, and prosecuted.
00:17:09.000 You're saying it's color of law is what's being used?
00:17:12.000 The whole thing's run out of ignorance.
00:17:15.000 People just don't know.
00:17:16.000 They really think.
00:17:17.000 Look at those kooks, those weirdos, those liars, until you investigate.
00:17:20.000 That's right, and I feel...
00:17:22.000 I spent time...
00:17:25.000 Thinking those things, but it was out of ignorance.
00:17:28.000 And now that I've researched and found that a lot of those claims are actually true, my hope is that law enforcement people will start trusting the citizens more than they have.
00:17:41.000 And the citizens, hopefully when they see more law enforcement officers being honorable about these issues, will start to trust law enforcement again.
00:17:50.000 And we can get back to a country where...
00:17:52.000 There's a lot of trust between the government and the governed because it's only with the consent of the governed that the government exists.
00:18:02.000 I'm trying to hope that you guys can tune out from the sports and the bedlam and the diversions for just five minutes and realize what we're trying to tell you here.
00:18:10.000 What we're trying to wake you up.
00:18:11.000 I mean, this is some scary stuff.
00:18:13.000 I mean, I'll pay taxes.
00:18:14.000 I've said this a hundred times.
00:18:15.000 But my gosh, let it go to me and my family.
00:18:17.000 Let it go to the country.
00:18:18.000 Let it go to the defense of this nation.
00:18:19.000 Let it be honest and based in a strong, good nation.
00:18:23.000 But if it's going to private banks, and they feed it back into the cycle of slavery, and there's no way to get out of this debt pit.
00:18:29.000 In fact, as an accountant, Mr. Bannister, explain the whole debt pit.
00:18:33.000 I mean, explain how there's no way to dig yourself out of this fiat system.
00:18:38.000 I mean, you've basically said it right there.
00:18:40.000 It is a pit, and you never get out.
00:18:43.000 You pay interest.
00:18:44.000 The sweat of your brow barely pays the interest on the debt.
00:18:49.000 It never goes away.
00:18:50.000 It's like indentured servitude.
00:18:52.000 It's like indentured servitude.
00:18:54.000 Literally, as you work, you keep hoping for the day that that debt is paid off and you are free, but it'll never come with the system as it stands.
00:19:04.000 I mean, I remember agents going to...
00:19:06.000 So-called tax protester meetings to get intelligence and find out what's going on.
00:19:12.000 I remember them coming back and laughing at the kooky stuff that they were talking about.
00:19:19.000 So that was just the general feeling that had been inculcated into people's minds.
00:19:27.000 It took me a couple of years to find out.
00:19:31.000 Now that's right.
00:19:33.000 You talked about D.B. Kidd and other writers and her pamphlets and the executive orders they listed and the laws, the case law.
00:19:39.000 What happened that first time whenever you went to the law library?
00:19:43.000 Because you told that story on the radio.
00:19:45.000 I thought it was interesting.
00:19:46.000 That I expected to find that it was all baloney.
00:19:50.000 That they referred to court cases that didn't exist or they took court cases out of context.
00:19:56.000 And I found that every court case that she referred to Or any of the people that she had in her book list referred to were correct, and they were right in the law library.
00:20:08.000 And what type, I mean, how did that make you feel?
00:20:11.000 I guess you wanted to dig deeper.
00:20:12.000 Yeah, because I had been taught, or at least led to believe, that I would immediately find the error of the evidence, that it wouldn't be there.
00:20:23.000 So they actually told you these guys are nothing but liars, you can't trust them.
00:20:27.000 Yeah, why bother looking?
00:20:28.000 There's no sense in even looking into it because it's a bunch of useless, out-of-context arguments that have been strung together and they don't make any sense.
00:20:39.000 Mr. Bannister, have you got any calls since you've gone public and been doing all these radio and magazine interviews?
00:20:43.000 Have you got any calls back from the IRS? No, but I have...
00:20:48.000 I do have a lot of support within the IRS. Like I said, there's a lot of good people in there, and they are supportive of me.
00:20:55.000 Of course, there's some that don't understand, but I haven't read any of the evidence either.
00:21:01.000 So you're a good example.
00:21:03.000 Again, I mean, if you realize what you've done here, it's so good.
00:21:07.000 If we can convince the people in the mechanisms of enforcement that they're enforcing something that's criminal, we can try to get back to that constitutional form of taxation and have a strong country.
00:21:17.000 Well, I don't know if you're probably familiar with a gentleman named Jack McLam.
00:21:20.000 Yes, police against the New World Order.
00:21:22.000 I understand that he's not well-liked by government officials, and I've met him a number of times, and I find him to be a very gentle man and somebody that just wants the Constitution to be followed.
00:21:37.000 He's not a criminal.
00:21:38.000 He's a highly decorated Vietnam veteran, the most highly.
00:21:42.000 Decorated police officer in Phoenix, Arizona history, and he was at the top.
00:21:46.000 I mean, they loved him in the community.
00:21:47.000 They were talking about him going for chief, all the rest of this stuff, and finally he found out about drug running and things and corruption and tried to speak about it, and he got fired.
00:21:56.000 The thing about Jack is he's got a little saying that tyranny will come to your door in a uniform, and I can't think of a more true statement, and especially...
00:22:11.000 Coming from me, who kicked down a lot of doors and did a lot of search warrants and searched through a lot of drawers and files and under beds, that's exactly how tyranny will come to your home, is in a uniform or with a bulletproof vest on or with a 6-hour 9-millimeter, as I carried.
00:22:31.000 And again, it's up to you guys out there in America, the police, the SWAT team commanders.
00:22:40.000 You ought to ask yourselves, is it the crack dealer on the corner, or is it the white-collar criminal that you're worried about, the guy that's selling old lady's junk bonds?
00:22:48.000 Or is it just the family that can't put the kids through school because of the federal income tax that goes right to the Federal Reserve?
00:22:55.000 Again, that's true, private, run for profit.
00:22:58.000 You know, we've aired the actual training videos the IRS has, or pieces of it, where they admit that it goes right to the Federal Reserve.
00:23:05.000 In fact, more and more, they're just admitting the truth, aren't they?
00:23:07.000 They're just flagrantly out there flapping in their faces.
00:23:10.000 Well, a lot of what I found is, actually all of what I found, is publicly available.
00:23:16.000 And it, I mean, the number of times that you see the word voluntary in the IRS manuals and in their pamphlets and booklets and instructions, I found it to be incredible.
00:23:27.000 So the king has no clothes?
00:23:30.000 That's what I found.
00:23:32.000 In fact, I think that's what we'll call this piece, The King Has No Clothes.
00:23:35.000 Joe, anything else?
00:23:36.000 And God bless you.
00:23:36.000 You know, Joe worked hard today.
00:23:39.000 At the accounting firm he's working at, and we were in Northern California covering Operation Urban Warrior.
00:23:44.000 Oh, my gosh.
00:23:46.000 And we called Joe up, and he met us right after work here at this little restaurant.
00:23:50.000 Joe, any other points?
00:23:52.000 Again, just don't let people be painted with a broad brush where you're scared into not listening to what they have to say.
00:24:02.000 D.V. Kidd, Bill Benson, Bill Conklin.
00:24:07.000 Jack McClam, and many, many others are fine people, and they really have seen some very ugly, the very ugly underside of certain portions of our government.
00:24:19.000 And I'm not anti-government.
00:24:21.000 I'm not anti-tax.
00:24:24.000 Alex is not.
00:24:26.000 None of the people are.
00:24:27.000 They are anti-corruption, though.
00:24:30.000 And I'm anti-corruption.
00:24:34.000 Well, that's the sad part.
00:24:35.000 You sit there and you try to talk about corruption.
00:24:37.000 Police running drugs, which we talked about.
00:24:39.000 Election fraud.
00:24:40.000 Remember that at the county?
00:24:42.000 And then it comes out, it's true, months after we bring it out and nothing's done.
00:24:45.000 We're denied, you know, being on the committee.
00:24:47.000 We get called anti-government.
00:24:48.000 Black helicopter people. 0.96
00:24:50.000 All the rest of this stuff.
00:24:51.000 And it's only because, number one, I get a thrill out of standing up against corruption.
00:24:55.000 I think that's the same thrill you got.
00:24:56.000 I mean, it feels good.
00:24:58.000 I guess it did feel bad to find out that you've been let alone.
00:25:01.000 That's the reason I took the job.
00:25:02.000 I could use my financial skills to find the fraud, to chase after the bad guys who don't actually get their fingers dirty with the crime.
00:25:12.000 But the money ends up flowing, and you follow the money.
00:25:16.000 The puppet mashers that create the havoc.
00:25:18.000 And that's, you know, you find who's running the show when you follow the money.
00:25:23.000 Joe's got a website, and you can get all the information.
00:25:27.000 That was inside his brief that he wrote to his superiors pretty much calling for a criminal investigation of the system.
00:25:34.000 And what's your website again, Joe?