Alex Jones Show - Alex Jones Steve Lane Waco 5th Rememberance

00:00:00.000 Alex Jones here.

00:00:01.000 I've had two wonderful hours of sleep last night.

00:00:04.000 And we're going to Waco.

00:00:07.000 And then, of course, tonight I'm going to edit for about eight hours and then get up at seven o'clock tomorrow.

00:00:14.000 So this is the enjoyment of life.

00:00:16.000 Endless warfare and cold beer drinking.

00:00:19.000 That's our secret.

00:00:21.000 No, I'm just joking.

00:00:24.000 All right.

00:00:26.000 You ready?

00:00:27.000 Go ahead.

00:00:30.000 This is the Freedom Report.

00:00:33.000 We're cruising on an M-class star freighter in the Alpha Centauri Quadrant.

00:00:38.000 That's the gaseous clouds of Cirrus Delta Quadrant 14-Niner.

00:00:45.000 I'm Alex Jones.

00:00:47.000 This is the Freedom Report.

00:00:48.000 We're traveling, myself and Steve Lane and many others, to Waco to the scene of the April 19, 1993 Butcher Massacre of Clinton.

00:01:01.000 The impotent, pus-filled agent, trying to feel empowered, ordered his henchmen to go out and murder a church community and then drum up all sorts of propaganda as a test to see if they can kill people in the future.

00:01:15.000 And as we saw in Oklahoma City in 1995, when government black ops, secret murder squads, went in and destroyed that building, they can get away with almost anything now here in this nation.

00:01:27.000 It's going to take people getting involved.

00:01:29.000 And being conscious of this information and being willing to put it on the line, to put on the armor, and to ride out against the enemy, because there's nothing like smashing, pus-filled bureaucrats' heads in.

00:01:39.000 We'll be right back.

00:01:41.000 We were just here at the 5th Annual Waco Remembrance.

00:01:45.000 A lot of people were here.

00:01:47.000 There were a few government agents there.

00:01:50.000 Soft-soaking and selling their government line.

00:01:54.000 The same old lies, the same old information.

00:01:56.000 But more and more of the facts are coming out.

00:01:58.000 We just got done eating here on the Brazos River in Waco, and just a lot of good people, a lot of people that just want the truth to come out about what happened here in Waco, Texas in 1993 on April 19th.

00:02:13.000 It's also a shame that this day on April 19th was in 95, the Murrow Federal Building, where government black ops secret squads, according to General Parton and many others, went in and destroyed that building.

00:02:27.000 See, it would have been too damaging to our government to have had Waco in the psyche, so they had to offset it by another terrorist act. 0.82

00:02:35.000 I know this is stunning information, but I've documented it at least a thousand times, and many others have too, like Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI Crime Lab, Ted Gunnarsson, ex-FBI chief of California.

00:02:49.000 And I don't want to repeat the same things over and over, but the answers will always be the same.

00:02:53.000 tyranny has an appetite for power and corruption.

00:02:56.000 Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

00:02:59.000 And those that have the appetite for power and the will that consumes them are capable of incredible despotic feats of despotism.

00:03:08.000 Let's not let this happen again, but I assure you it will happen in the future.

00:03:13.000 Americans are laying down far too much. 0.99

00:03:16.000 It's going to take a renaissance of information to bring forward the truth here in our age.

00:03:22.000 This is April 19th, 1998, five years after the murder of children.

00:03:29.000 We were just reading the Austin American Statesman.

00:03:31.000 It never talks about the children.

00:03:33.000 It talks about David Koresh being some sort of cult leader.

00:03:38.000 Of course, the media doesn't want to discuss Waco rules of engagement, and I was surprised that it was nominated for an Academy Award, but of course it didn't win.

00:03:47.000 We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder.

00:03:54.000 Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles, and the BATF wanted more funding, they wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature.

00:04:06.000 So they surrounded the place, opened fire with helicopters, and then 51 days later, set it on fire, sent hit teams inside, and murdered the people.

00:04:15.000 Those that tried to escape were machine guns from outside.

00:04:18.000 Only a couple people got out alive, and that's because they came out the front.

00:04:23.000 Where they had cameras.

00:04:25.000 We're fixing to show you everything out there and get a lot of important interviews.

00:04:29.000 This is the Freedom Report.

00:04:31.000 Mike Hanson and others put together a bus trip for us to come here.

00:04:33.000 Actually, this is my first time here.

00:04:35.000 So were y'all out of Austin then?

00:04:37.000 Yes, yes.

00:04:37.000 Why are y'all here today?

00:04:39.000 I'm here personally because I want to educate myself more about this, more about what happened here.

00:04:44.000 I'm not really as informed as a lot of people are about the attack that occurred here.

00:04:49.000 And I thought it was important to come here and see the site for myself and meet the people that were involved and get a more rounded education about the subject than what I think what we typically get through the mainstream media sources.

00:05:02.000 Why is your group here?

00:05:03.000 I see people holding signs.

00:05:06.000 It's the same thing.

00:05:07.000 One of the things that we do at the conference is we try and expose corrupt government and educate people about what's really going on in the world.

00:05:17.000 I think because of the Soundbite nature of mainstream media, individuals don't get the type of education that they should to make informed choices, and we try and get them more pertinent information so they can make better informed choices.

00:05:34.000 Okay, do you think that what happened here wasn't?

00:05:38.000 I couldn't make, I didn't really formulate an opinion here, and what happened was a libertarian friend of mine made the point that regardless If there were laws being broken here, if there were illegal weapons being stored here, that sort of thing, how can you justify killing all those women and children?

00:05:55.000 And you can't.

00:05:56.000 And regardless of what might have occurred here before the ATF and the FBI arrived, you can't justify killing women and children like that.

00:06:05.000 Those babies weren't shooting anybody. 1.00

00:06:07.000 And there were babies that died here.

00:06:09.000 And there were unborn babies that died here.

00:06:11.000 And that, to me, was a very valid point.

00:06:15.000 And that's why I think it's important that this type of information get out, that people start asking those same questions.

00:06:19.000 Hey, it doesn't matter if they were in there, you know, running a slave operation.

00:06:25.000 How can you justify killing babies and unborn babies?

00:06:28.000 And you can't.

00:06:31.000 Steve Lane just got done talking to the media.

00:06:34.000 I certainly hope they play the comments in full, but that's the main problem with the instant media.

00:06:41.000 They have to have little sound bites because everything is just regurgitated back to the public.

00:06:48.000 So I think Steve Lane's doing a good job talking to people out here.

00:06:51.000 I want to go try to get some interviews with a producer of Waco Rules of Engagement if we can do that and talk to some of the lawyers.

00:06:59.000 This is Steve Lane with the Freedom Report.

00:07:01.000 We're here at what used to be the Mount Carmel, or I guess it still is Mount Carmel, but where the facilities used to be.

00:07:08.000 Here in Waco and we're standing here with Catherine Madison who's going to give us a tour of the site.

00:07:14.000 This is all new to me.

00:07:16.000 I've never been here before, never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around.

00:07:24.000 Hey, Miss Madison, I really appreciate you taking the time out to show us around because this is my first time here and I really don't know very much about what happened out here and this is more of an educational trip for me.

00:07:36.000 Than anything.

00:07:38.000 And to see it for myself and to hear what happened from people who were actually involved.

00:07:43.000 Let's get a generation how far off the road they were.

00:07:45.000 Ask her how far, and I'll go back.

00:07:47.000 Say what now?

00:07:48.000 How far the house was off the road.

00:07:50.000 Oh, Ms. Madison, could you speak about how far the house is from the main road?

00:07:57.000 Any guesstimates there?

00:08:00.000 Well, this road goes on a curve, and ahead of us is the curve.

00:08:05.000 And the houses started right where that second telephone pole is.

00:08:14.000 And extended down the road, and there were about 15 houses here at one time.

00:08:19.000 To your left down here, you're going to see all the trees that were planted for the people who died in the fire.

00:08:27.000 And each one has a marker on it telling the name of one of the people.

00:08:33.000 Is this an actual grave site or just a memorial?

00:08:36.000 No, it's just a memorial.

00:08:37.000 They are buried in other places.

00:08:39.000 I see.

00:08:41.000 To your right down in front of us, way down there, that is the bus that we had originally.

00:08:50.000 We used to all be able to get in there and go where we wanted to go as a group.

00:08:54.000 It looks like it's been burned.

00:08:56.000 I don't know when it was burned.

00:08:58.000 It was perfectly all right when we left.

00:09:03.000 Of course, the different tanks went to the front of it.

00:09:07.000 When you look at it, you'll see that it's been caved in.

00:09:12.000 But the rest of it was in good shape.

00:09:14.000 And you actually were in the house during the initial attack, is that correct?

00:09:18.000 Oh, yes, yes.

00:09:19.000 I was there.

00:09:20.000 And how long were you there?

00:09:21.000 I was there until the attack was over.

00:09:24.000 See, they called a truce so that they could pick up their men that had been hurt.

00:09:31.000 And take the others...

00:09:32.000 You're speaking of the ATF? ATF. And when it came time for us to pick up our people, they wouldn't allow us to do it.

00:09:40.000 So were there injured Branch Davidians outside then, you were saying, that you weren't able to go?

00:09:47.000 Oh, yes.

00:09:47.000 Yes, I was.

00:09:48.000 Were they not able to receive medical attention of any type?

00:09:51.000 Oh, no.

00:09:51.000 Mike...

00:09:52.000 Or were these Branch Davidians that had already been killed?

00:09:56.000 No.

00:09:56.000 Mike had come down from...

00:10:00.000 What they call the make bag that's so far on the other road down there.

00:10:04.000 Yeah, we saw that.

00:10:04.000 That was demolished.

00:10:06.000 Well, it wasn't demolished.

00:10:09.000 The man had the key to the piece of property.

00:10:14.000 But what happened, they decided to ram it.

00:10:17.000 They rammed the door in, and we had cars there that were being fixed.

00:10:21.000 And to be clear about this, she's speaking of a building, and we're going to tape this a little bit later.

00:10:28.000 We're talking about a building that's approximately eight miles.

00:10:32.000 Is that about right?

00:10:33.000 Would you say it's about eight miles?

00:10:34.000 It's about eight miles from the site here.

00:10:36.000 And it's my understanding, was it the ATF or the FBI? ATF. It was the ATF actually pushed this building over.

00:10:43.000 And all you say was that you had some cars that were being worked on there?

00:10:48.000 It pushed the door in.

00:10:50.000 And the man that had the key said, I will open the door.

00:10:55.000 And they said, no.

00:10:57.000 They rammed it.

00:10:58.000 Were they trying to get inside for some reason?

00:11:00.000 I have no idea what their reasoning is.

00:11:02.000 But we used to fix cars down there.

00:11:05.000 And there was three men that were down there.

00:11:08.000 One of them was Mike.

00:11:10.000 And he came in and he tried to get in this way because his family was here.

00:11:14.000 And they shot him.

00:11:17.000 See, there were sharpshooters that had dug holes and made it so that they could shoot.

00:11:26.000 Sure.

00:11:27.000 In any direction.

00:11:27.000 Okay, stop it right there.

00:11:29.000 Okay.

00:11:29.000 Here again, these were trees that were planted in memoriam of all the individuals that died inside the fire, is that correct?

00:11:35.000 And these are all, they're all marked.

00:11:38.000 Yes, they all have a plaque.

00:11:39.000 And you'll notice here, now see, this is something that bothers me, Catherine.

00:11:42.000 I don't know what occurred inside this house before the ATF got here.

00:11:49.000 Truthfully, I don't even know what occurred afterwards.

00:11:51.000 But one of the hardest things I have...

00:11:53.000 The biggest problems I have with what occurred here is that there were so many women and children that perished here.

00:11:59.000 And regardless, it seems to me that...

00:12:01.000 Well, the men perished too.

00:12:03.000 Yeah, it matters not to me what laws could have possibly been broken here.

00:12:08.000 Women and children and men died.

00:12:10.000 I mean, how can you justify killing babies and unborn babies?

00:12:14.000 It matters not to me.

00:12:15.000 And I noticed that the first gravestone we walk up to here...

00:12:17.000 Yes, that was one of the twins.

00:12:19.000 ...age one and a half.

00:12:20.000 That was one of the twins.

00:12:23.000 To people who might be watching this tape, I mean, I've heard a lot of criticisms of the Branch Davidians.

00:12:32.000 To you people that are being critical of the Branch Davidians, you justify to me, how can you justify killing a child that's a year and a half old?

00:12:40.000 I have an eight-month-old at home, and a child that's a year and a half old can't shoot people.

00:12:48.000 They can't commit crimes.

00:12:49.000 How can you justify killing them?

00:12:51.000 They killed them because they wouldn't come out. 0.99

00:12:55.000 They killed them. 0.98

00:12:56.000 See, when they first came here, they were going to kill everybody. 0.96

00:13:04.000 And the first thing they did was fill David's room full of holes.

00:13:10.000 But David didn't happen to be in there.

00:13:13.000 And I'm sure they figured if they killed David, then they could get the rest of us.

00:13:19.000 It was not to their liking that we came out.

00:13:24.000 His film, documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, was up for an Academy Award, and I think it should have won.

00:13:30.000 It is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen.

00:13:32.000 It methodically documents the hysteria in our government.

00:13:36.000 Mr. McNulty, I want to thank you for doing this interview.

00:13:38.000 You're welcome.

00:13:40.000 I'm not really going to ask you any questions.

00:13:42.000 I just want to ask you basically...

00:13:45.000 Do you think this is going to come out?

00:13:46.000 Why are you making a second documentary?

00:13:50.000 Well, the first film certainly raised all the right questions.

00:13:54.000 It didn't always have all of the answers, so I've spent some additional time and effort in trying to get better answers to the questions.

00:14:05.000 Who shot first on February 28th?

00:14:08.000 Was there really gunfire from the helicopters?

00:14:12.000 Did the FBI shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19th in spite of their protestations?

00:14:17.000 Who were the people at the back of the building shooting at the Branch Davidians on April 19th?

00:14:22.000 What was involved with the explosion on the top of the bunker during the course of the fire?

00:14:28.000 How was the evidence handled or mishandled in the following investigation?

00:14:34.000 Questions like that.

00:14:35.000 So we get to...

00:14:39.000 Deal with those issues, and hopefully when we've dealt with them, we're in the process of making that film, and I'm finding very little cooperation from people who were involved.

00:14:48.000 People like Bob Ricks, or Jeff Jamar, or Dick Wright.

00:14:51.000 He was head of the FBI at that operation, correct?

00:14:53.000 No, Jeff Jamar was.

00:14:55.000 And Bob Ricks, he was?

00:14:56.000 He was the public spokesperson that you saw at all the news conferences.

00:14:59.000 Okay, so he was the public spokesperson for the FBI. Right.

00:15:02.000 And basically...

00:15:04.000 Trying to get those people to cooperate now has been like pulling teeth.

00:15:08.000 They're not interested.

00:15:10.000 Well, I can appreciate why they might not be, but the fact of the matter is these are the same fellows that are out bad-mouthing my film, and I think it's only appropriate first that they see the film before they bad-mouth it.

00:15:21.000 And then once they've had that opportunity that they also spend some time answering the questions raised in the film as opposed to just being critical in sort of a general haphazard way.

00:15:34.000 Mr. McNulty, I have seen your documentary when it premiered in Austin, Texas to a packed house at the Dobie at UT. And I was ashamed that our newspaper didn't do a front cover story.

00:15:45.000 They did it in the movie section and they said it showed troubling information, showed...

00:15:50.000 Federal agents firing from their sniper points and actually up right next to the church or what the media would call the compound.

00:15:58.000 I know some new documentation is coming out that's even worse than just the feds firing at women and children as they tried to exit the burning building through the cafeteria area.

00:16:08.000 Now, is it true that some documentation is coming out, if you want to go ahead and release this, I've heard it from others, that they actually sent in hit squads?

00:16:17.000 I don't think so.

00:16:18.000 You don't think they sent in hit squads?

00:16:19.000 No, I don't think I'm going to release any information right now under these circumstances.

00:16:24.000 Basically, we will have new information in the film.

00:16:28.000 People will be able to judge for themselves as to what went on and why it went on and who was responsible.

00:16:34.000 But no, I don't think I want to talk about that too much right now.

00:16:38.000 Yes, sir.

00:16:38.000 Just a couple more questions if you have the time.

00:16:41.000 You say that you've run into a brick wall now that your documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, has gotten so much attention.

00:16:47.000 Because of the methodical nature and how well organized the information is, do you think that your next film will be given more attention than this one, or do you think that the propaganda machine and the mainstream media will continue to attack it despite the fact that most of these people haven't even seen the documentary?

00:17:06.000 Well, it remains to be seen.

00:17:07.000 I think the interesting point about people attacking the film now is it's been out for a year, it's completed a theatrical run, it's been released in home video, and they're just getting around to paying attention to it.

00:17:18.000 When I say they, I mean people like Bob Riggs.

00:17:21.000 Buck Revell and these others that were former FBI agents involved in Waco in 1993. I think they're sort of a dollar short and a day late.

00:17:30.000 The horse is out of the barn and it comes across as nothing more than sour grapes.

00:17:35.000 So you're saying that due to their arrogance they ignored this powerful information and now it's gotten pretty big and they're starting to panic?

00:17:43.000 I don't know if panic's the right word, but certainly they've begun to pay attention where they hadn't for the past year and a half.

00:17:49.000 And ultimately, all that tells me is these fellas have got something on their mind.

00:17:54.000 And I have contacted them recently, like Bob Ricks, and given them the opportunity to speak their piece, to state their side of the story.

00:18:05.000 And they refuse to do so.

00:18:06.000 So in my mind, all that tells me is they've got something to hide.

00:18:10.000 So if that's the case, then shame on them.

00:18:12.000 Well, that's exactly what they did when they held the media back and then in the press conference said, well, you're lucky that you're that far.

00:18:19.000 But we don't want you seeing what we're doing.

00:18:20.000 But we're not going to go in there and do any kind of assault.

00:18:23.000 That was Jeff Jamar.

00:18:26.000 I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and a radio show.

00:18:39.000 You're not exactly mainline.

00:18:40.000 But on the other hand, the birth of that type of communications.

00:18:47.000 It's a good thing, because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to the people of the Justice Department for fear of losing news sources.

00:18:57.000 So perhaps it's a good thing, and perhaps there is good that's come out of the situation at Wake Up.

00:19:02.000 I'm going to have to go, man.

00:19:03.000 Sure, last question.

00:19:07.000 Sir, how long until your next film comes out?

00:19:13.000 It's scheduled for July, and if we keep on our schedule, which I'm about to leave for right now, we may just get it done by then.

00:19:20.000 Yes, sir.

00:19:20.000 Thanks a lot.

00:19:21.000 Appreciate it.

00:19:22.000 God bless you.

00:19:24.000 Sir, I know you have to go.

00:19:25.000 Just one more question.

00:19:26.000 How can the media continually lie about this and not come full force out with indictments against certain people when this documentary does show federal agents?

00:19:37.000 In your opinion, who was it firing the automatic weapons?

00:19:42.000 Who is firing the automatic weapons at the back of the building on April 19th will be revealed in the new film.

00:19:47.000 In terms of, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job?

00:19:54.000 I don't know.

00:19:54.000 You have to go ask them.

00:19:56.000 That's what you ought to be doing right now, is asking these guys why they haven't done their job relative to that.

00:20:01.000 Well, they're just errand boys.

00:20:02.000 They're just out getting the footage.

00:20:03.000 It gets cut up back home.

00:20:05.000 Yeah, and what you have to do is go and find the editors.

00:20:07.000 I've done it.

00:20:08.000 And put them on camera and ask them, why is it you haven't run these stories?

00:20:12.000 Yes, sir.

00:20:13.000 Thanks a lot.

00:20:15.000 I'm serious.

00:20:16.000 Have you seen Waco Rules of Engage?

00:20:19.000 Yes, I have.

00:20:20.000 You have?

00:20:21.000 So you have seen the inventor, the man that holds three of the patents, three of the four patents on flare technology, telling you that those are sniper points firing automatic weapons.

00:20:30.000 What do you think about that?

00:20:31.000 I thought it was fascinating.

00:20:33.000 I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before.

00:20:36.000 I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it, but I thought it was interesting.

00:20:42.000 I thought it was a different perspective and it taught me something I didn't know before.

00:20:46.000 Are you aware that our Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, just created ten regional teams to work with local law enforcement?

00:20:52.000 That is absolutely unconstitutional, and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country.

00:20:56.000 Are you aware that General Benton Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development, says that Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building?

00:21:04.000 No, I wasn't aware about that.

00:21:06.000 Exactly.

00:21:07.000 What news service are you with?

00:21:08.000 Channel 10 here in town.

00:21:10.000 Here in Waco?

00:21:11.000 If you want, I will send y'all footage from CNN the day of the bombing where they were removing unexploded bombs from the girders inside Oklahoma.

00:21:19.000 I've worked on the McVeigh trial out in Denver.

00:21:22.000 I pretty much know...

00:21:23.000 Well, thanks a lot.

00:21:25.000 I appreciate it.

00:21:26.000 I have to speak now.

00:21:26.000 Let's go.

00:21:31.000 Mike, come on! 0.96

00:21:33.000 Steve Lane again with the Freedom Report.

00:21:35.000 They're getting ready to take a moment out here to ring the replica of the Liberty Bell and call off the names of the individuals who were murdered here at the church.

00:21:51.000 We have behind us Clive Doyle, and there's the replica of the Liberty Bell, which, by the way, I've been meaning to ask some questions.

00:21:59.000 If it's a full-scale replica or...

00:22:02.000 If it's a partial scale, I'd like to get a chance to speak to the individual who brought it and who's in charge of taking care of it.

00:22:09.000 But they're getting ready to make those announcements right now.

00:22:13.000 February 28, 1993. We all know what happened that morning.

00:22:27.000 There were lives taken.

00:22:29.000 We're going to read all the names of everyone who lost their life here at Mount Carmel on February the 28th, as well as April the 19th.

00:22:40.000 I'd like to begin with the names of those Branch Davidians that were killed here on February the 28th.

00:22:49.000 Winston Blake, England.

00:22:54.000 Peter Gent, Australia.

00:22:59.000 Peter Hipsman, United States.

00:23:04.000 Perry Dale Jones, United States.

00:23:08.000 Michael Schroeder, United States.

00:23:13.000 Jadine Wendell, United States.

00:23:18.000 Also on that date, four BATF agents lost their lives.

00:23:24.000 Conway Leblew, Todd McKeon, Robert Williams, and Stephen Willis.

00:23:39.000 On April the 19th, fire took the lives of the following: Chanel Andrade, United States.

00:23:55.000 Jennifer Andrade, United States.

00:23:59.000 Catherine Andrade, United States. 0.91

00:24:01.000 Ulrich Rick George Bennett, England.

00:24:07.000 Susan Benta, England.

00:24:10.000 Mary Jean Borst, United States.

00:24:16.000 Pablo Cohen, Israel.

00:24:22.000 Abadawalo Dabo Davies, Nigeria and England.

00:24:29.000 Sherry Elena Doyle, United States.

00:24:34.000 Beverly Elliott, England.

00:24:39.000 Doris Fagan, Jamaica, England.

00:24:44.000 Yvette Fagan, Jamaica, England.

00:24:49.000 Lisa Marie Ferris, United States.

00:24:54.000 Raymond Friesen.

00:25:00.000 Sandra Herial, England.

00:25:05.000 Diana Henry, England.

00:25:09.000 Paulina Henry, England.

00:25:13.000 Philip Henry, England.

00:25:17.000 Stephen Henry, England.

00:25:22.000 Zilla Henry, Jamaica, England.

00:25:26.000 Novelette Sinclair Hipsman, Canada.

00:25:29.000 Floyd Houtman, United States.

00:25:34.000 Sherry Jewell, United States.

00:25:38.000 Cyrus Howell Koresh, United States.

00:25:44.000 David Koresh, United States.

00:25:49.000 Rachel Olivia Susanna Jones Howell Koresh, United States.

00:25:55.000 Star Hollow Koresh United States Chica Jones Koresh, United States Little One Jones Koresh, United States Jell Jones Thibodeau, United States.

00:26:19.000 Serenity C. Jones Koresh, United States.

00:26:26.000 David Michael Jones, United States.

00:26:31.000 Jeffrey Little, United States.

00:26:36.000 Nicole Elizabeth Gent Little, Australia.

00:26:43.000 Dayland Lord Gent, Australia.

00:26:48.000 Paige Gent, United States.

00:26:54.000 Unnamed aborted fetus, Gent, that died during the siege, United States.

00:27:02.000 Livingston Malcolm, Jamaica, England.

00:27:07.000 Annette Marie Martin, United States.

00:27:13.000 Douglas Wayne Martin, United States Lisa Marie Martin, United States Sheila Renee Martin, United States Wayne Martin, United States.

00:27:31.000 Diana Martin, England.

00:27:36.000 Abigail Martinez, United States.

00:27:41.000 Audrey Martinez, United States. 0.99

00:27:46.000 Crystal Berrios, United States. 0.98

00:27:50.000 Isaiah Taco Berrios, United States.

00:27:55.000 Joseph Samuel Martinez, United States.

00:28:02.000 Juliet Santoyo, United States. 0.99

00:28:07.000 John Mark McBean, Jamaica, England.

00:28:11.000 Allison Bernadette Monvalley, England.

00:28:18.000 Melissa Morrison, England.

00:28:22.000 Melissa Morrison, England.

00:28:24.000 Rosemary Morrison, England.

00:28:28.000 Sonia Murray, England.

00:28:32.000 Teresa Nobrega, England.

00:28:36.000 James Jimmy Lloyd Riddle, United States.

00:28:43.000 Rebecca Sapia, New Zealand.

00:28:49.000 Judith Schneider, United States.

00:28:53.000 Mina Schneider, United States.

00:28:57.000 Stephen Schneider, United States.

00:29:01.000 Clifford Sellers, England.

00:29:05.000 Flora Sita Sanobi, Philippines.

00:29:09.000 Scott Kojiro Sanobi, United States.

00:29:15.000 Aisha Garfus Summers, Australia.

00:29:20.000 Startle Summers, United States.

00:29:24.000 Unnamed Abortus Spetus Summers, United States.

00:29:29.000 Gregory Ellen Summers, United States.

00:29:35.000 Hollywood Sylvia, United States.

00:29:40.000 Lorraine Sylvia, England, United States.

00:29:45.000 Rachel Sylvia, United States.

00:29:50.000 Margarita Vallega, China, United States.

00:29:56.000 Neil Vallega, New Zealand, United States.

00:30:01.000 Mark Wendell, United States.

00:30:05.000 There are a couple of survivors who died since 1993.

00:30:15.000 We have stones here for them and the flowers.

00:30:20.000 And they will be placed over here later.

00:30:24.000 James Lauder, United States.

00:30:28.000 He passed away November the 25th, 1996. Jamie Martin, United States.

00:30:38.000 Jamie passed away February the 11th of this year.

00:30:44.000 We have also a number of survivors that are still in prison, and I'd like to tell you a little bit about each one of them.

00:30:51.000 Renus Abram, born February 26, 1964. He's a British businessman and musician of Greek heritage.

00:30:59.000 He joined the Davidians in 1991. He escaped the fire.

00:31:04.000 He's serving 40 years since.

00:31:07.000 If you'd like to write to him, his name and number and where he's located is available here, and you can get a copy of this.

00:31:17.000 He's currently in Jessup, Georgia.

00:31:21.000 Brad Branch, born January 31st, 1959.

00:31:25.000 He's a Navy veteran and technician from Texas, a frequent visitor to Mount Carmel who came out during the siege.

00:31:33.000 He's serving a 40-year sentence.

00:31:35.000 He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.

00:31:38.000 Jamie Castillo, born June the 4th, 1968. He's a California drummer, a guitarist who joined the Davidians in 1988 and escaped the fire.

00:31:48.000 He's serving a 40-year sentence.

00:31:50.000 He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.

00:31:53.000 Graham Craddock, born November the 29th, 1961.

00:31:59.000 He's an engineer from Australia who had been at Mount Carmel for a year and escaped the He's serving a 20-year sentence.

00:32:06.000 He's in Oakdale, Louisiana.

00:32:10.000 Paul Fata, born February 28, 1958. He's a businessman from Hawaii who joined the Davidians in the late 80s.

00:32:19.000 He was outside of Mount Carmel on February 28, 1993. He's serving a 15-year sentence.

00:32:26.000 He's in Safford, Arizona.

00:32:30.000 Kevin Whitecliffe, born June the 4th, 1968. He's from Hawaii.

00:32:35.000 He's the father of two who had been at Mount Carmel for a year, came out during the siege.

00:32:40.000 He's serving a 40-year sentence.

00:32:42.000 He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.

00:32:45.000 And finally, Livingston Fagan, born May 15th, 1959 in Jamaica.

00:32:52.000 He's a social worker and has a master in theology.

00:32:56.000 He spent most of his life in Britain.

00:32:58.000 He's the father of two who lost his wife and mother in the fire.

00:33:02.000 He exited during the siege.

00:33:04.000 He's serving a 40-year sentence in Oklahoma City.

00:33:07.000 He had been at Leavenworth, Kansas, where he was treated so inhumanely that there's a grand jury impaneled now to look at what some of the guards had been doing there.

00:33:24.000 And that's why he is now in Oklahoma City during that investigation for fear that his life could be in danger if he was left there at Leavenworth.

00:33:34.000 And so hopefully some of that may be straightened out.

00:33:39.000 Livingston Fagan has had a very, very tough, tough five years, as they all have.

00:33:45.000 But Livingston won't play their games.

00:33:49.000 Has been put outside nude and hosed down in the winter and then put in a cold cell with nothing on because he just refuses to play any of their games.

00:34:01.000 Those are the men that are in prison, and if you'd like to write them, we have the addresses available to where they all are, and I'm sure that they'd love to hear from you.

00:34:10.000 Can we bow our heads just for a minute or so for those that lost their lives here five years ago?

00:34:17.000 Thank you.

00:34:33.000 I'd like to personally, on behalf of all the Branch Davidians that are here, survivors, I'd like to thank you for coming today and spending your time and letting all of the survivors know exactly how you feel.

00:34:52.000 They appreciate your being here.

00:34:54.000 And feel free to come in and look through the museum.

00:34:58.000 It'll get larger.

00:34:59.000 There'll be more here as time goes by.

00:35:03.000 And thank you all very, very much for coming.

00:35:06.000 I appreciate it.

00:35:07.000 Thank you.

00:35:09.000 Well, notice, looks like, yeah, we're fixing to finish our walk here with Catherine Madison, and I noticed in the, it looks to me like some sort of...

00:35:18.000 And I'm not even joking around, a surveillance helicopter, because you'll notice on the nose of the helicopter, there's kind of a reflection of light.

00:35:24.000 I don't know if you can see that on the video.

00:35:26.000 And I can tell you from my stint in the military, that's indicative of surveillance equipment, cameras.

00:35:31.000 The light reflects off the multiple lenses that they have, and clearly that's some sort of military helicopter.

00:35:41.000 I'm getting it, Alex!

00:35:44.000 Again, there's no mistaking it.

00:35:46.000 I refueled aircraft while I was in the Air Force.

00:35:49.000 I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis.

00:35:54.000 And again, that's indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment that they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s, different helicopters.

00:36:05.000 There's standard surveillance cameras, also infrared.

00:36:12.000 FLIR, they call it forward-looking infrared radar, and there's just no doubt in my mind the glint off of the reflection, which I hope you caught on the video, is just, well, there's no mistaking it.

00:36:25.000 That's exactly where they put that surveillance equipment.

00:36:27.000 I'm visiting with Ron Engelman.

00:36:28.000 He was a radio host in Dallas, Texas, who stood up.

00:36:32.000 He's been in the documentary Day 51. He was one of the first people to speak out.

00:36:36.000 Sir, how did you recognize immediately that army tanks and people in black ski masks surrounding a church was dangerous?

00:36:44.000 Sunday morning, when it first got on television, I saw what was taking place, and I became irate about it.

00:36:51.000 I mean, when you see people in black surrounding a home and just firing into the walls and into the windows, and there are government rules and regulations that state you have to have a target before you fire, they ran out of ammunition firing through walls. 0.53

00:37:06.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:37:07.000 How come you can tell the difference between that, I can tell the difference between that, but the media said they fired first, but you can see the door, the front door was riddled with bullet holes?

00:37:17.000 No, you can't see the front door because mysteriously the front door disappeared.

00:37:22.000 I'm talking about the photographs.

00:37:28.000 One of the guys that was killed was killed right there at the front door.

00:37:32.000 That's where David Koresh was...

00:37:33.000 He said, let's talk.

00:37:34.000 He opened up the door and said, hold it, hold it, there's women and children in here. 1.00

00:37:37.000 He had invited the BATF to come by and then he would let them inspect his weapons.

00:37:42.000 Two months before the raid, the BATF went over to McMahon's gun shop and wanted to look at the records of David Koresh.

00:37:52.000 While they were looking through the records, McMahon called David Koresh and said, the VATF's here.

00:37:57.000 And he said, let me talk to him.

00:37:58.000 McMahon went out with a cell phone and said, David Koresh wants to talk to you.

00:38:03.000 And they said, no, no, we're not going to talk to him.

00:38:06.000 And they wouldn't talk to him.

00:38:07.000 So David told McMahon, he said, tell them to come on out right now.

00:38:12.000 Come on out and I'll show them anything they want to see.

00:38:14.000 They never showed up.

00:38:15.000 They wanted a media circus.

00:38:17.000 It has Waco Rules of Engagement. 0.56

00:38:18.000 You out of here.

00:38:19.000 See you later.

00:38:20.000 They wanted what?

00:38:21.000 There he goes, the big producer, Mr. McNulty.

00:38:28.000 Alright, let's finish this up.

00:38:30.000 I'm so brand new.

00:38:31.000 This is not the normal island.

00:38:32.000 The scary part is we had Ramsey Clark, Attorney General.

00:38:36.000 That's right.

00:38:36.000 And he actually worked in three administrations.

00:38:39.000 Up there telling us that the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, are running the country or actually front groups.

00:38:44.000 We have him telling us that they're militarizing the police.

00:38:47.000 They're coming under federal control.

00:38:48.000 I mean, what is it going to take for the dozen media cameras that were out here from stations all across the country to report on these facts?

00:38:54.000 They won't.

00:38:55.000 They won't.

00:38:56.000 They're government-controlled.

00:38:58.000 Take into consideration that every network...

00:39:01.000 That has a number of television stations throughout the country as well as radio stations.

00:39:06.000 They are controlled by people that do belong to the CFR and do belong to the Trilateral Commission.

00:39:12.000 And those people aren't going to allow their reporters to report the truth on what's going on.

00:39:17.000 In 1951, a gentleman that was the...

00:39:21.000 Publisher of the New York Times was asked to speak at a luncheon, and he said, if you think we are speaking what's telling what's true, you're absolutely wrong.

00:39:31.000 This is a joke. 0.99

00:39:32.000 You and I are both nothing more than prostitutes. 0.99

00:39:35.000 We're prostituting ourselves for a business that only wants us to report what they want to hear. 0.98

00:39:41.000 If we report what we know and we want to do, we know we'll be out on the street tomorrow.

00:39:46.000 That was 1951. Didn't this start right at the turn of the century, whenever J.P. Morgan bought up all the major newspapers?

00:39:52.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:39:53.000 And it's been going on since then.

00:39:54.000 And we all know what J.P. Morgan's money does and his banks.

00:39:58.000 And, you know, he's part of...

00:40:02.000 That company, that dynasty.

00:40:04.000 That dynasty that owns the Federal Reserve.

00:40:06.000 J.P. Morgan Bank owns part of the Federal Reserve.

00:40:09.000 The Federal Reserve is no more federal government than Federal Express.

00:40:13.000 Then this pen is federal.

00:40:14.000 That's right.

00:40:14.000 It's a lie.

00:40:16.000 It's private.

00:40:16.000 What would you say to the public out there in Austin?

00:40:20.000 What would you say to them to wake up, to get involved and to shake the apathy?

00:40:24.000 That's exactly what I'd say, is wake up, pay attention to what's going on in this country.

00:40:28.000 If you're sitting there and all you're doing is reading a newspaper and watching television, you're brain dead.

00:40:33.000 What you need to do, in all honesty, is start studying.

00:40:37.000 Read the Constitution.

00:40:39.000 Read what the Constitution says.

00:40:41.000 Then study what the meaning of the Constitution is.

00:40:43.000 Read the Federalist Papers.

00:40:45.000 Then you'll know the meaning of the Constitution, why it was written and what it was meant for.

00:40:49.000 Until then, you're lost.

00:40:51.000 How long do you think we have left?

00:40:53.000 If we don't turn this around until we're in a 100% full-on police state?

00:40:59.000 Well, you've got to take into consideration that the government is never in a hurry.

00:41:02.000 Everything they do, they do in little, tiny, tiny chunks.

00:41:06.000 Incrementally.

00:41:07.000 Just like they're taking away our freedoms, just little tiny pieces at a time, and they use something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other catastrophe to say, see?

00:41:17.000 See what happens?

00:41:18.000 We don't need guns.

00:41:20.000 Look at all these people that were killed, these two little boys that killed those four children and their teacher.

00:41:24.000 We don't need guns.

00:41:25.000 We don't need guns.

00:41:26.000 And so they're trying to take it away.

00:41:27.000 Pretty soon it's all gone.

00:41:28.000 It's kind of like the frog in the boiling pot.

00:41:30.000 That's exactly right.

00:41:31.000 That's exactly what it is.

00:41:32.000 I really appreciate you having me out here today, and I want to...

00:41:35.000 And just everybody standing up for what happened to the Branch Davidians.

00:41:39.000 I think, though, this is going to be a catalyst to wake up the nation.

00:41:41.000 I pray to God it will.

00:41:43.000 I pray to God it will.

00:41:44.000 We read all these names out there today, and that's real hard for me to do.

00:41:47.000 I've done that before, and every time I do it, it just hurts badly.

00:41:52.000 And if you think about the lives that were lost here and how they were lost, and put the blame squarely where it belongs, and it certainly doesn't belong on the Branch Davidians, because they were just living here peacefully.

00:42:04.000 Then you'll know what's happened.

00:42:05.000 Well, that's part of the demonization.

00:42:06.000 I mean, everything that the media said turned out to be lies.

00:42:10.000 Speed labs, illegal guns, molesting children.

00:42:13.000 He said he was Jesus.

00:42:14.000 If all that was true, you don't fire into a home thousands and thousands of rounds from semi and fully automatic weapons, from helicopters out front into a place filled with children.

00:42:24.000 And then you don't come in and set the place on fire.

00:42:26.000 That's exactly right.

00:42:28.000 I mean, you said it all.

00:42:28.000 What else is there to say?

00:42:29.000 And that's exactly what the government did.

00:42:31.000 So we have Attorney Generals.

00:42:32.000 We have documentaries with the FBI's own footage, their own flare tapes as they fire at men, women, and children as they try to leave a burning building.

00:42:39.000 That's right.

00:42:40.000 And you have the people out there just standing around, worried about...

00:42:45.000 Who the local football coach is?

00:42:46.000 Remember, when the fire was burning, while the fire was burning, there was a report that 20 people had come out the back of Mount Carmel.

00:42:54.000 If you watch Waco, the rules of engagement, you'll see why those people aren't alive.

00:42:58.000 They did come out the back of Mount Carmel.

00:43:00.000 They were killed by federal agents in tanks outside the back.

00:43:04.000 That's why they stopped the fire trucks while they hurriedly bulldozered the bodies back into the flames.

00:43:09.000 In Waco Rules of Engagement, there's interviews with the Tarrant County Coroner's Office, and they sit there and tell you that one body wouldn't hardly be burnt, and the next body with bullet holes would be burnt to a char from gasoline.

00:43:19.000 That's absolutely right, and that's why.

00:43:21.000 I mean, they had to do this.

00:43:23.000 If they hadn't done this, everyone in the country would have seen what the government really was.

00:43:27.000 They demonized these people for 51 days with a 30-minute press briefing every day, and that press briefing was no more than lie after lie after lie.

00:43:35.000 They were trying to instigate.

00:43:37.000 David Koresh to do something, he wouldn't do it.

00:43:40.000 They were lying about him to the American public, and the sad thing is that the American public, the majority of the American public, still believes that the government was right.

00:43:48.000 My sister is one of them.

00:43:49.000 I can sit and show her movies, I can sit and talk with her, and I might as well be talking to a brick wall.

00:43:54.000 And that's the point.

00:43:55.000 We have Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI crime lab, comes out and says they manufactured evidence from Waco to Oklahoma City.

00:44:02.000 Again, I don't want to repeat myself, but attorney generals have the will to do this.

00:44:06.000 And people still lay there.

00:44:09.000 And they're attorneys general, not attorney generals.

00:44:11.000 I know.

00:44:13.000 I appreciate that.

00:44:14.000 That's what happens when you get two hours sleep.

00:44:16.000 Thanks a lot, buddy.

00:44:17.000 You're welcome.

00:44:18.000 Thank you, man.

00:44:18.000 Appreciate that.

00:44:20.000 We're here with Bonnie Haldeman, David Koresh's mother.

00:44:24.000 And there's quite a crowd out here today to, I guess, lend support and try to keep the memories alive of people that did die just trying to live their lives.

00:44:33.000 How do you feel five years after the tragedy?

00:44:36.000 Well, I feel pretty much like I did the same, you know, the day it happened.

00:44:40.000 The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church, and their family, you know.

00:44:50.000 The hurt's still there, and we're here to remember them.

00:44:54.000 Bonnie Haldeman, she's the mother of David Koresh. 0.55

00:44:58.000 Does it still feel as bad as it did five years ago?

00:45:01.000 Sometimes it does, you know.

00:45:04.000 It's gotten a little easier in some aspects, but being out here sometimes and remembering sort of in your mind, you see everything that happened, especially looking at the pictures inside.

00:45:14.000 You did a good job ringing the bell for the people that died here.

00:45:19.000 You know, I've seen you here today and talked to you some.

00:45:22.000 You seem like a really gentle, nice woman, and that makes me think even more so that all the stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son.

00:45:31.000 They were lies.

00:45:32.000 They were lies.

00:45:34.000 Because he was a kind, gentle person, too.

00:45:37.000 Loved people, and his main goal in life was to help save people's souls, and he didn't like anybody to be unkind to anybody else.

00:45:48.000 And he also told the BATF to come on over two weeks before.

00:45:51.000 He did.

00:45:52.000 He told them several times to come out.

00:45:54.000 They were in the gun shop one day.

00:45:56.000 We found out that they were there asking about him, and he said, tell them, come on over.

00:46:00.000 And the sheriff knew him.

00:46:01.000 Sheriff Harwell knew him.

00:46:02.000 The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and that this was a good community out here.

00:46:07.000 He had come out here many times, you know, just in and talked to David, and Sheriff Harwell told me last year, he said, I'm sure, I'm sorry, Bonnie, what happened, if anything I can do for you.

00:46:18.000 Well, there you have it.

00:46:19.000 Attorney generals, sheriffs here in Waco, the sheriff here in Waco, it just goes on and on.

00:46:25.000 FBI crime lab chiefs?

00:46:27.000 What more do you need?

00:46:28.000 The documentation is there.

00:46:30.000 What would you say to the public in Austin, Texas, if there's just a few statements that you want to make to them about how they can avert this type of tragedy happening in the future?

00:46:40.000 How can they avert it?

00:46:42.000 Well, we need to stand up for what we know is right and to demand that investigations be done on what happened here and see if it doesn't happen again.

00:46:51.000 Indictments?

00:46:53.000 We've got all of our family in prison that shouldn't be there.

00:46:56.000 The jury of their peers found them innocent and they're spending hundreds of years in prison.

00:47:01.000 And that's very strange how that judge was able to do that.

00:47:05.000 It is strange.

00:47:07.000 It's strange.

00:47:08.000 How can one man have so much power?

00:47:10.000 That's not right.

00:47:11.000 Well, thanks a lot, Bonnie.

00:47:12.000 Thank you.

00:47:13.000 Appreciate that.

00:47:13.000 You're welcome.

00:47:15.000 We're here.

00:47:16.000 At the museum, at the remains of Mount Carmel community, church community, that the media called Compound.

00:47:22.000 I want you to take a look at these federal agents.

00:47:25.000 Now who looks like the criminal here in this photograph?

00:47:28.000 Right here.

00:47:29.000 Who looks like the criminal? 0.78

00:47:33.000 Pretty sinister looking, isn't he?

00:47:35.000 Mike.

00:47:46.000 Here you have the remains of the church, known in the media as the compound.

00:47:51.000 Now notice, they said they had to destroy it because of contamination of the ground.

00:47:56.000 As usual, in Waco and in Oklahoma City, they destroy the federal crime scene.

00:48:02.000 There you have the ATF flag flying below the Texas and United States flag, a battle scene, a military operation.

00:48:09.000 And here you have a federal agent grimacing.

00:48:14.000 This young lady here, you see Clive Doyle, a man that I know is as gentle as a lamb, being led by the federal agent to his jail cell.

00:48:24.000 After he was burnt.

00:48:25.000 Yes, after he was burnt.

00:48:26.000 And then here you have the bus, all burnt out.

00:48:31.000 And by the way, eight miles down the road, they owned a small car shop.

00:48:34.000 They ran over that and tore that to pieces, even though no one was there.

00:48:37.000 Now let's look at the militarization.

00:48:39.000 There they are where the children were huddled.

00:48:41.000 And now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team with special breathing apparatus to kill everyone inside there and they placed a mine on top of the building.

00:48:50.000 Here you can see them looking down through the hole.

00:48:51.000 Here's more FBI provocateur agents there destroying evidence.

00:48:58.000 And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads.

00:49:03.000 These are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993...

00:49:10.000 Kevlar helmets.

00:49:11.000 Here you have some of the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County Coroner's Examiner's Office, and that's in Waco Rules of Engagement, well documented.

00:49:21.000 Here you have some more of the tough guy behavior.

00:49:24.000 We can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day of the siege.

00:49:30.000 They did quite a bit of that, but here's a real tough guy.

00:49:33.000 He can fire into a building filled with men, women, and children while he wears body armor.

00:49:37.000 My, is he tough.

00:49:38.000 And, of course, Here is some more BATF. You know, they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road, the first day that the conflagration of terror began.

00:49:51.000 And here you have another tough guy with an automatic weapon, a HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon.

00:49:59.000 That is an ATF, a U.S. government terrorist.

00:50:05.000 And, of course, here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank, and they also had Abrams, the premier front-line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms, and the government never found any illegal weapons.

00:50:22.000 They got a false search warrant.

00:50:24.000 They lied.

00:50:24.000 They violated posse commentatus.

00:50:26.000 It's totally unconstitutional.

00:50:28.000 This is a police state.

00:50:30.000 Let's go ahead and look at what was and what is no more.

00:50:35.000 Get a shot at Waco Rules of Engagement.

00:50:37.000 You want to talk about a documentary that has the FBI's own flare footage as a machine gun, innocent men, women, and children as they tried to leave the church, the wooden structure known as a compound of the media, and to the purveyors of corruption.

00:50:51.000 A lot is going on, and there's a new documentary supposedly coming out called Bullets Over Waco, The Survivor's Story.

00:50:57.000 Let's go ahead and go over here now and look at some more of the documents.

00:51:02.000 This was the first day of the standoff.

00:51:07.000 This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front of the door when David Koresh opened it.

00:51:14.000 They killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up.

00:51:18.000 They then called 911 repeatedly.

00:51:20.000 This is all on the 911 tapes.

00:51:21.000 And so we're being fired on.

00:51:23.000 Helicopters surrounded the area and were firing into the structure through the roof.

00:51:28.000 Here you have...

00:51:29.000 The structure before it was destroyed.

00:51:33.000 Here you have the ATF firing as fast as they can.

00:51:37.000 Down here.

00:51:40.000 Firing into the structure with absolute wanton abandonness.

00:51:44.000 And then you have people who are in full body armor firing at men, women, and children who had committed no crime.

00:51:50.000 And then you have them sitting here crying sorrowfully over a BATF agent that was shot.

00:51:56.000 We're sorry that that happened, but when you wear a black ski mask...

00:51:59.000 And you come into somebody's home, well, I'll say what G. Gordon Liddy said, aim for the head.

00:52:05.000 Let's go on over here.

00:52:08.000 We're going through the entire...

00:52:09.000 I'm crazy.

00:52:13.000 We're going through the entire 51 days now.

00:52:16.000 Well, here you have what was going on at night, the lights, the sirens, Nancy Sinatra, the sound of squealing, dying rabbits.

00:52:24.000 And then they started pumping in the CS gas, a band form.

00:52:28.000 of tear gas because when it ignites it forms cyanide gas.

00:52:31.000 Here you have the structure with all the thousands of tank treads around it.

00:52:43.000 Here you have day 22, some of the people that came out were promptly sent to jail and labeled as terrorists.

00:52:52.000 The BATF pulled up in cattle cars, fully exposed.

00:52:56.000 If the Davidians were waiting to ambush them, like a lot of mainstream media, made-for-TV television propaganda shows, propagandize the people, right here you have the structure. 0.74

00:53:09.000 And the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and Koresh raised his hands and said, stop, let's talk about this.

00:53:15.000 We have women and children.

00:53:16.000 They opened fire, this is on the FBI's own tapes, into the front of the structure.

00:53:20.000 This is even the edited tapes.

00:53:21.000 And the door that's disappeared, lawyers and people that went inside said the bullets were going in from the outside.

00:53:28.000 You can tell this for novices out there.

00:53:30.000 When a bullet hits a metal door, it makes a small hole going in and a large hole going out.

00:53:35.000 So this, again, government-sponsored terrorism in your country.

00:53:42.000 You have people here looking at what's happened, looking at the final assault.

00:53:49.000 You can see internal photos of a machine gun sniper mount, a machine gun and a sniper, crouching here.

00:53:57.000 I don't know if the video camera can pick this up.

00:54:00.000 Crouching from their sniper position.

00:54:03.000 And as the people tried to exit the back, they fired on them.

00:54:07.000 And again, Waco Rules of Engagement shows flare footage of that happening.

00:54:12.000 You can see it right here.

00:54:16.000 People that were killed by federal forces.

00:54:20.000 Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads, that is, secret military squads that accompanied the feds.

00:54:28.000 We're told also that some British special forces teams were inserted to kill all the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened.

00:54:36.000 And there, of course, you have the evidence before it was destroyed.

00:54:39.000 The FBI and the BETF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City, the World Trade Center bombing, after they've done their handiwork.

00:54:49.000 This is Clive Doyle's daughter.

00:54:52.000 Did not deserve to be burned up in the building and shot as they tried to exit.

00:54:59.000 We're here with Clive Doyle, one of the surviving Branch Davidians.

00:55:02.000 He came down a couple months ago.

00:55:03.000 We really appreciate you coming down to share the information, the knowledge of your run-in with the New World Order and what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco, Texas.

00:55:15.000 I appreciate you having everybody out here.

00:55:17.000 What do you think about An attorney general coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state.

00:55:26.000 Well, Ramsey Clark has been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case, and he has spoken just about every year for the last three years.

00:55:36.000 The fact that an attorney general has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and his principles.

00:55:50.000 I'd kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things, but that may be down the road. 0.63

00:55:57.000 Well, so he was speaking out against the trilateralist control system, whereas she is the trilateralist control system.

00:56:02.000 Well, I'm saying, I'm looking, hoping for a change, but whether we'll see it.

00:56:05.000 You know, a lot's changed since the 60s.

00:56:07.000 Sure.

00:56:09.000 So, you know, we look forward, I think.

00:56:13.000 I thought it was an interesting development that we had an FBI negotiator during the siege that actually came out.

00:56:22.000 Is he gone?

00:56:24.000 I'm not sure.

00:56:25.000 But it was the first time we've had a government agent, or ex-government agent, that was involved with the situation.

00:56:32.000 Did he apologize?

00:56:34.000 He did to me.

00:56:36.000 I don't know that he did publicly in so many words.

00:56:40.000 What's his name?

00:56:41.000 Faris Rookstool.

00:56:43.000 Oh, he was one of the guys on the phone, wasn't he?

00:56:45.000 FBI negotiator.

00:56:46.000 Where is Ferris?

00:56:47.000 I don't see Ferris.

00:56:48.000 I'd love to ask him about that.

00:56:50.000 But it's like you and others said on the phone, and David Koresh said on the phone, all he was was a message boy.

00:56:56.000 Really, he didn't have any authority, correct?

00:56:58.000 That's true.

00:56:59.000 They had to acknowledge that somebody else was calling the shots, either from Washington or their commanders or whatever, and of course the mod squad out here in the tanks, they were doing all the damage anyway.

00:57:12.000 That's the problem.

00:57:13.000 You create military police. 0.98

00:57:14.000 They like to kill.

00:57:16.000 It doesn't matter if it's men, women, and children.

00:57:17.000 Again, you lost your daughter in this.

00:57:19.000 Sure.

00:57:21.000 It just makes me so angry.

00:57:22.000 I mean, you're a very peaceful person.

00:57:25.000 I've got a chance to get to know you somewhat.

00:57:27.000 And the people I meet are like the most innocent kind.

00:57:31.000 I mean, some of the older ladies that survived are... 0.99

00:57:36.000 How old is the oldest surviving Branch Davidian?

00:57:39.000 Well, the oldest one in this area is 90. There's two of them that are in their 90s.

00:57:47.000 One of them's in a rest home, the other one still active, you know.

00:57:51.000 Do you remember the made-for-TV movies that showed elderly women with huge automatic weapons firing?

00:57:58.000 I can never watch that thing all the way through without getting mad, so I don't quite remember the old ladies, but I remember the movie. 0.78

00:58:05.000 We had last year, we had the...

00:58:07.000 The guy that wrote the script for that who did come and apologize.

00:58:11.000 So I think, you know, there's hope for the worst kind of people.

00:58:17.000 These people should be ashamed of what they're doing.

00:58:19.000 Let me just ask you a question that's kind of, it's not off the subject, but what do you think about us buying all these goods from China made by political dissidents, 30 million at any one time, with a 25% attrition rate that's millions dead a year in these camps and the Chinese moving into Long Beach?

00:58:34.000 Isn't this going to come back on all Americans? 0.73

00:58:36.000 If we allow this to continue?

00:58:39.000 Well, as far as buying goods that are made by cheap labor, whether it's from China or anywhere else, I think we've forced a lot of the businesses to go overseas for cheap labor because of the slave labor we have in our prison system.

00:58:51.000 You said it.

00:58:52.000 You know, you get people working for 10 cents an hour, how can the average businessman out there compete when he's at least got to pay the minimum wage?

00:58:59.000 I'm sure you know that you've never been in trouble with the law in your life, had you, until this happened.

00:59:03.000 I've never been in jail.

00:59:04.000 They asked me when they booked me after they got me out of the hospital, took me down to the county jail and started to book me.

00:59:11.000 They said, have you ever been in jail before?

00:59:12.000 I said, many times, but never as an inmate.

00:59:15.000 First time, you know.

00:59:17.000 It's quite an experience.

00:59:18.000 I would.

00:59:19.000 And, you know, it's true.

00:59:20.000 Per land mass and population on both those statistics, Texas has more prisons than any country in the world, except for China or America.

00:59:28.000 It's a business.

00:59:29.000 They build them.

00:59:30.000 More than they've got prisoners in Texas, so they bring in prisoners from elsewhere.

00:59:34.000 That's why they're creating new crimes. 0.92

00:59:35.000 Sure.

00:59:36.000 Sir, Clive Doyle, I really want to thank you for standing up strong against this.

00:59:40.000 And more and more documentation is coming out like Waco Rules of Engagement.

00:59:43.000 Is that a hard film for you to watch?

00:59:46.000 Somewhat.

00:59:47.000 It's hard enough to talk about it, let alone watch it over and over.

00:59:50.000 But even myself, I've got footage from various CNN and C-SPAN and all those different clips.

01:00:00.000 And I've been going through some of the stuff I've had just to try to find some things that I remember seeing and I want to use, you know, and just to sit there and live through it over and over again.

01:00:11.000 What's this Bullets Over Waco?

01:00:13.000 This is put out by Jeremiah Films.

01:00:15.000 They're the ones that made the cover, I mean, the Clinton Chronicles, which you may have heard about.

01:00:20.000 I haven't seen it yet.

01:00:21.000 It's not out, not due out until May, but the producer was especially impressed with coming here and interviewing us.

01:00:30.000 Seem to be really touched.

01:00:31.000 So just whether he's got some bosses that want to chop it up and do a different story, I don't know.

01:00:37.000 But it sounded like it was going to be pretty good.

01:00:39.000 Glob Doyle again, Surviving Branch Davidian.

01:00:41.000 Thank you very much.

01:00:44.000 There have been some documentaries, front documentaries by the establishment here in America, like PBS, that supposedly is giving us good information, where they continually refer to this as a cult and a compound.

01:00:55.000 Did y'all?

01:00:56.000 Did you refer to yourself as a cult or a compound, or was it a church?

01:00:58.000 No, we never called ourselves a cult.

01:01:00.000 It was a church.

01:01:01.000 The place was called Mount Carmel Center, not Mount Carmel Compound.

01:01:06.000 And it was wooden.

01:01:08.000 Made of wood.

01:01:10.000 Pretty flimsy, actually.

01:01:11.000 When they brought the tanks in, you thought we were in an earthquake the way it shook.

01:01:15.000 So it was not a fortified compound or a fortress of any kind.

01:01:21.000 It was not a military base.

01:01:23.000 What was it like to be in there with...

01:01:25.000 Men, women, and children, and to have people running around in black ski masks with semi-automatic and automatic weapons firing at you.

01:01:33.000 I didn't see any on the 19, so I can't tell you that.

01:01:36.000 You didn't see any people?

01:01:37.000 I didn't see any ski mask people in there.

01:01:40.000 Well, we've seen them in Austin.

01:01:43.000 So is that a newer thing, just in the last few years since that happened, that they're now wearing ski masks?

01:01:48.000 Oh, they had scheme-ass people that I've seen photographs of on the outside, but I didn't see any in the building.

01:01:56.000 Oh, I got you.

01:01:58.000 I thought you meant inside, running around inside.

01:02:01.000 Well, that's some information that's now coming out in this next documentary that's being put out by the same people that put out Waco Rules of Engagement.

01:02:08.000 And I've talked to some of the lawyers, Mr. Brennan and others, that it's pretty much documented.

01:02:12.000 I know you were trying to get out for your life and get other people to safety.

01:02:15.000 We're being told now that some special forces teams, perhaps from Britain, were sent in with breathing apparatus.

01:02:22.000 I'm not aware of that, but then we were isolated.

01:02:25.000 Those of us that were in the chapel were pretty much cut off from people down the other end because of all the damage they'd done to the building.

01:02:30.000 Let me ask you one more question.

01:02:32.000 You and others have talked about how the water tanks had holes in the top, and the only way the water tanks could have holes in the top was from the helicopters.

01:02:40.000 Did you see helicopters firing?

01:02:42.000 I did not see the helicopters firing.

01:02:45.000 Did anyone see them?

01:02:46.000 Catherine saw them.

01:02:48.000 Other people saw them.

01:02:49.000 Marjorie Thomas, who's from England, who was badly burned.

01:02:52.000 She said that her testimony, which she did a video deposition for the trial, but I don't think it ever played in its entirety.

01:02:59.000 But in that deposition, she said that some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end in the tower, and they were acting sort of agitated.

01:03:12.000 She walked over to look and see what they were looking at, and she looked out the window, and she jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass.

01:03:23.000 It scared her.

01:03:24.000 I mean, it was so close.

01:03:26.000 And as she jerked her head back, bullets came through and smashed the glass just where she'd been looking at it.

01:03:31.000 And this is right during the first assault?

01:03:34.000 Right, yeah.

01:03:34.000 This is part of the initial shooting.

01:03:37.000 Were helicopters used in the second and final assault?

01:03:40.000 Well, they definitely had planes taking this infrared or this flare tape.

01:03:47.000 Some say there was a fixed wing.

01:03:49.000 Some say there was helicopters.

01:03:50.000 They were buzzing the building throughout with these jet-type helicopters, these black ones, throughout the 51 days.

01:03:57.000 Well, even though we see these black and dark green helicopters, the media tells us that they don't exist.

01:04:01.000 Do they exist?

01:04:02.000 Even though you have photographs in here of them.

01:04:04.000 What would you say to the public out there?

01:04:05.000 I don't know where they get the idea they don't exist.

01:04:08.000 I guess it's the same place they say that they never fly with the doors open, when you can see the footage you see right through them, you know?

01:04:15.000 Got doors open on both sides.

01:04:16.000 They did it in Vietnam, they did it in Waco, and yet they deny that they're allowed to do that.

01:04:21.000 But at least our guys in Vietnam are going to fight an enemy who was armed.

01:04:23.000 It's pretty sick.

01:04:25.000 I mean, you know this better than I, to come attack children.

01:04:29.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:30.000 This didn't need to happen.

01:04:31.000 It shouldn't have happened.

01:04:32.000 But apparently they had an agenda.

01:04:34.000 Do you think that there will be more state-sponsored terrorisms like Waco?

01:04:38.000 I don't think it's over.

01:04:40.000 My Bible tells me that this beast makes war on God's people and overcomes them and kills them up to a certain point.

01:04:46.000 And I don't think you've seen the last of it.

01:04:48.000 So this is just the beginning?

01:04:50.000 It seems that way.

01:04:52.000 That's what my Bible tells me.

01:04:54.000 Clive, thank you very much.

01:04:55.000 I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.

01:04:57.000 Appreciate that.

01:04:58.000 Thank you.

01:05:01.000 Ringing the bell that so many people were from England.

01:05:06.000 Now, were those people still British citizens?

01:05:10.000 Now, has the government of Britain gotten involved in the investigation in any way?

01:05:14.000 Or have they expressed no interest?

01:05:17.000 We've tried to stir up response from the British government by writing to people and asking them to go direct and ask questions and put it to them how come they didn't do anything about their own citizens.

01:05:29.000 And they got a pretty nasty attitude in England, apparently.

01:05:32.000 They just wiped them all off and said, well, they were all from elsewhere, you know, from Jamaica or Nigeria or whatever, and just wrote them off.

01:05:39.000 Well, Mr. Brennan, the lawyer for some of the murdered children, that's why he was saying that it now looks like with some documents they've uncovered.

01:05:47.000 He said this down at the last conference that y'all came down to Austin, that that's why they use some British intelligence, because it's well known in the intelligence community, if you're going to do an operation involving people from another country that we're allied with, you'll allow that country to do your work for you.

01:06:00.000 It's possible.

01:06:01.000 I don't know anything about that at this point.

01:06:03.000 I just was completely shocked by the fact that, I mean, confirm this or deny it, that seemingly the British government has had...

01:06:12.000 Basically, no interest at all in investigating what happened here.

01:06:15.000 The Israeli government and the New Zealand government and the Canadian government are the same, but of all of them, England lost the most citizens.

01:06:23.000 That's what I was struck by, and I can't imagine that if British citizens were in South Africa or some of these other outposts...

01:06:32.000 In the world that if as many people, as many British citizens were killed, theirs were killed here, I can't imagine that they would sit on their hands and seemingly do nothing.

01:06:39.000 You'd almost think they'd have a war over it, wouldn't you?

01:06:41.000 That's what I mean.

01:06:42.000 It was shocking to me.

01:06:44.000 I haven't got a satisfactory answer from anybody on that myself.

01:06:47.000 Perhaps the U.S.-Britain power axis in banking is just really one beast.

01:06:52.000 It's just like when I called British Embassy.

01:06:57.000 And British consuls and stuff here in this country in regards to the situation with Livingston being beaten up by 300-pound guards and fire hoses put on him.

01:07:06.000 Because he's still a British citizen.

01:07:07.000 Yes, and so their responses just palmed it up.

01:07:11.000 Well, you need to contact such-and-such a consul in such-and-such a city because that's who's over Kansas.

01:07:16.000 And then they say you contact such-and-such.

01:07:18.000 Yeah, they just keep passing you along.

01:07:20.000 After 100 calls, you're back at the same place.

01:07:23.000 Whether they finally got into it or not, you know.

01:07:27.000 Is he still being tortured?

01:07:28.000 Right now, he's out of Leavenworth.

01:07:31.000 He's in Oklahoma, and they're supposed to be going to have a grand jury indictment of some of the guards up there at Leavenworth.

01:07:36.000 Why would these guards do this?

01:07:38.000 Well, apparently they were doing it not just to Livingston, but to a lot of people. 0.79

01:07:41.000 But Livingston, of course, he's black for one thing. 0.89

01:07:43.000 He's about 130 pounds.

01:07:45.000 He's just a little guy.

01:07:47.000 They probably figured they'd get away with it.

01:07:49.000 But they were doing it to other prisoners, and so...

01:07:54.000 They've pulled all those prisoners out, from what I understand, to protect them until they can testify at this grand jury against these guards.

01:08:04.000 Thanks a lot, Clive.

01:08:05.000 Okay.

01:08:05.000 Thank you.

01:08:08.000 We're here at the site where the people were killed, here at Mount Carmel Church.

01:08:15.000 And for every person that was murdered here, they planted a crepe myrtle and some flowers for the murdered people.

01:08:23.000 This is a caring community out here.

01:08:25.000 They fixed cars, they were postmen, and yes, they sold firearms to law-abiding citizens.

01:08:32.000 And for doing this, they were murdered in cold blood for a publicity stunt for Bill Clinton.

01:08:38.000 And then the government, and again, from ex-FBI chiefs to General Parton, ex-Sative Air Force Weapons Development, to Ted Gunderson, FBI chief, Oklahoma City was done by black ops, secret government squads.

01:08:51.000 On April 19th in 1995, Two years later, because Clinton's approval rating was plunging, and they needed to overshadow this terrible memory with the memory of the government dying.

01:09:02.000 So just be aware of that.

01:09:03.000 Just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933, they blew up Oklahoma City to make sure that no one ever remembers this. 0.73

01:09:10.000 But it's backfired on them.

01:09:11.000 People know what's happened in both cases.

01:09:13.000 Government terrorism.

01:09:16.000 There is Serenity C. Jones, April 19, 1993, age 4, murdered by...

01:09:23.000 MJTF, military police forces, under Clinton's command.

01:09:28.000 Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur.

01:09:32.000 What's his name, Mike?

01:09:34.000 Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur, and the media is clustered around him.

01:09:39.000 They don't want to talk to ex-attorney generals.

01:09:42.000 No, no, no.

01:09:43.000 They want to talk to agent provocateurs.

01:09:45.000 One more thing.

01:09:46.000 If all I say...

01:09:48.000 It's a lie.

01:09:48.000 Why isn't the government coming in prison to me?

01:09:50.000 Because they don't want an investigation.

01:09:52.000 They don't want me to bring out in some type of trial all the information.

01:09:55.000 Our government is blowing up buildings and murdering churches.

01:10:01.000 We're here with Jack DuVault and he wrote Waco Whitewash.

01:10:06.000 Sir, you've been talking about this ever since it happened and Do you feel that people know more and more now in America exactly what really happened here, or do you think that there's a lot of work still to be done?

01:10:22.000 There's a tremendous amount of work to be done.

01:10:25.000 Most people are slowly forgetting what has happened here, and the word is not getting out.

01:10:32.000 There are all kinds of...

01:10:34.000 Materials available on the internet, my book for example.

01:10:39.000 In my book, I followed the trial very closely, and in that book I showed About eight examples of indictable offenses by federal officers and agents, and nothing has ever been done about it.

01:10:52.000 And talk about the unprofessional behavior, mooning and showing their genitalia to the women and children, playing the sounds of dying rabbits, firing in from the first day and on the last day with helicopters and sniper-mounted positions.

01:11:03.000 And lying about it continuously, lying and lying and lying.

01:11:07.000 But the real crime is the mainstream controlled media, isn't it?

01:11:09.000 That's right.

01:11:10.000 That's right.

01:11:11.000 If the truth was out, if the...

01:11:14.000 Well, actually, the controlled media is controlled by Slick and Reno, as far as that goes.

01:11:22.000 And if they were telling the truth, then the media would tell the truth.

01:11:25.000 But they won't tell the truth.

01:11:27.000 So I don't know how to compel them to tell the truth.

01:11:30.000 What is it like, though, to know what's going on, to know what's happening, to see Americans believing this saddening propaganda?

01:11:38.000 Well, it's disheartening, but I... I'm not Branch Davidian by any means.

01:11:44.000 I don't hold to many of their doctrines, except that I know there's a God.

01:11:48.000 And you're a First Amendment.

01:11:49.000 And I know that God is in control of this whole mess.

01:11:53.000 Actually, I have kind of an apothe...

01:11:55.000 Apocalyptic view of what's going to happen when the year 2000 comes down with the computer.

01:12:02.000 Y2K? Yes. 1.00

01:12:03.000 We just had a thumb scanning protest where I was arrested, the biometrics, and yes, I believe they're going to create a crash and make you thumb scan or retina scan to buy and sell.

01:12:12.000 Well, I believe that the entire culture is going to have a severe culture shock because I think that we're going into an economic...

01:12:23.000 Spiritual change.

01:12:24.000 I think that everything is going to change because people who have thought that they were building their security all these years...

01:12:30.000 We're building their slavery. 0.98

01:12:31.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:12:32.000 Building their own cage.

01:12:33.000 Correct.

01:12:34.000 Sir, I really appreciate that, and I want to get you on my radio show.

01:12:36.000 Okay, thank you very much.

01:12:37.000 Thank you, Jack.

01:12:39.000 I'm saying, sir, you came here during the siege, correct?

01:12:44.000 During the siege.

01:12:45.000 We came up here.

01:12:47.000 I engineered maybe 40 people.

01:12:53.000 Involved in the operation rescue business, saving babies' lives, unborn babies' lives.

01:12:58.000 And so I felt that here were some born babies' lives that needed to be saved, and I was convinced that they were going to die during the siege.

01:13:09.000 I was convinced that they weren't going to let them out.

01:13:11.000 Because you saw the mentality?

01:13:12.000 That's right, that's right.

01:13:13.000 The federal government officials...

01:13:16.000 Have this compulsion to be in charge, to win no matter what, to absolutely overpower any opposition.

01:13:23.000 And this was what I observed, and I also knew the hearts of these people that were here, and they just were going to be steadfast.

01:13:30.000 They were not going to be movable.

01:13:32.000 And so we came up here with about 40 people about, I guess it was a month before the siege ended in the fire.

01:13:41.000 And we made an effort to walk in.

01:13:45.000 Five miles away here, and there were FBI agents, ATF agents, state troopers, sheriff's department, all out forcing us not to step across the line.

01:13:59.000 So it was an MJTF operation?

01:14:01.000 Well, more or less, we all had armbands on.

01:14:06.000 I had had armbands made that said, Unarmed Patriot, so that when we got shot, the press was out there, if we got shot, we would at least be identified.

01:14:17.000 We didn't even have the courage, though, to step into the face of those AK armed men that were guarding every road, every approach. 0.87

01:14:25.000 We came around to the backside over here.

01:14:29.000 We tried to come across the field there, and they had helicopters circling us all the time.

01:14:34.000 Now, Jack, sir, I know you're in the military, and I know you're an author and everything, but come now.

01:14:39.000 Helicopters don't exist.

01:14:40.000 They're only building a huge helicopter base in Austin for surveillance with infrared.

01:14:44.000 Please, please, just don't see those black helicopters.

01:14:47.000 Of course, these helicopters were not black.

01:14:49.000 They were pink.

01:14:50.000 Yes, sir, but why are you not engaging in the mass delusion?

01:14:56.000 Please engage in it with the rest of culture.

01:14:58.000 See, when I joined the Air Force, I've taken the oath of office five different times.

01:15:04.000 I joined the Navy during World War II. I joined the Air Force as an enlisted man.

01:15:09.000 I then went to aviation cadets.

01:15:10.000 I then was commissioned.

01:15:12.000 I then got a regular commission.

01:15:13.000 Each of those times, I had to take the oath of office.

01:15:15.000 Would you please tell us that oath?

01:15:16.000 That said, I will defend the Constitution of the United States.

01:15:22.000 From enemies?

01:15:22.000 From enemies within and without.

01:15:25.000 Foreign and domestic.

01:15:27.000 That oath has not gone away just because I got out of the service.

01:15:31.000 I was not released from that oath.

01:15:32.000 That oath was under God.

01:15:34.000 And I still have that obligation.

01:15:36.000 Just like Michael New.

01:15:37.000 Would you have refused as a young man to try to put you under UN control?

01:15:40.000 I hope I would have the courage of Michael New.

01:15:42.000 He's a good friend of mine, and I think that he did a spectacular job and is still doing a spectacular job.

01:15:49.000 Thank you very much, sir.

01:15:50.000 And it's a good book I've heard.

01:15:51.000 I haven't read it, but I hear that...

01:15:53.000 I'm not a very good writer, but it's got a lot of good information.

01:15:58.000 Thanks a lot, sir.

01:16:02.000 We're standing on the spot, just feet away from the front door where the cattle trailers...

01:16:08.000 With people girded in black pulled up and opened fire on men, women, and children.

01:16:13.000 And above us were circling black and dark green military helicopters with infrared scopes firing incessantly on the people.

01:16:22.000 And again, this has all been documented with FBI footage that was snuck out by defense attorneys.

01:16:28.000 This is incredible.

01:16:30.000 The people were murdered right here on the spot when men, women, and children burnt inside this structure.

01:16:38.000 And this was all, again, part of state-sponsored terrorism to push the envelope, to test and to see what they could get away with.

01:16:48.000 Now I'm standing on the spot where David Koresh opened the door, raised his hands and said, as they charged him, with a dynamic entry, he said, hey, let's talk.

01:16:58.000 We have women and children here. 0.96

01:16:59.000 They opened fire, he was injured, and some of his associates were killed.

01:17:03.000 They then called 911. As the fire continued, more people were killed.

01:17:08.000 Thugs, impotent weaklings, continued to fire into this structure.

01:17:13.000 And no excuses, no amount of government propaganda can cover up the shameful events that happened here at Mount Carmel. 0.94

01:17:21.000 You know, there's a common thread in all of this, from Oklahoma City to the World Trade Center bombing to, of course, Waco.

01:17:27.000 They always destroy the evidence and don't let locals in to document anything.

01:17:32.000 What do they have to hide?

01:17:34.000 If this was some murderous cult, as the TV shows told us, then what did they have to hide?

01:17:40.000 Why do they always destroy the remains?

01:17:43.000 This building was burnt to the ground, but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap, in a monument to the wreckage of the police state.

01:17:53.000 Welcome to the New World Order.

01:17:57.000 Right up there on the podium, here at the five-year remembrance of the slaughter here, is Ramsey Clark, ex-Attorney General of the United States of America.

01:18:07.000 And he is there telling you that we are under federal control.

01:18:11.000 The military is training with local law enforcement.

01:18:14.000 This is absolute police state.

01:18:16.000 Nazi Germany is right upon us. 0.93

01:18:18.000 But this time it's going to be not racial, but environmental and socialist.

01:18:22.000 It's the real deal, ladies and gentlemen, and you can't deny it.

01:18:25.000 They're suffering and sharing it, and remember the suffering of the Palestinian people, and prevent it. 1.00

01:18:31.000 We have to love all the people, and prevent violence, and demilitarize the planet.

01:18:36.000 And in the ancient Hebrew words of Deuteronomy, above all, our command is to set it, to set it, tiered off.

01:18:51.000 Justice, justice, thou shalt pursue.

01:18:57.000 God bless you, everyone.

01:19:03.000 I have one more speaker that I'd like to introduce.

01:19:10.000 And he didn't even know he was going to talk here today.

01:19:14.000 But it's the talk show host that put together the busload of people that came up from Austin, Texas.

01:19:21.000 He's on radio station KJFK in Austin.

01:19:26.000 Does a program called The Real Spin.

01:19:29.000 His name is Alex Jones.

01:19:30.000 Alex?

01:19:31.000 Yeah!

01:19:35.000 Well, it's hard to speak after Ramsey Clark, attorney general during the Carter administration Did you hear what he was just telling you?

01:19:46.000 There is a massive consolidation.

01:19:48.000 Of local police departments under federal control, the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force and the JTF-6, which is based at Fort Bliss, Texas.

01:19:58.000 They wear black ski masks.

01:20:00.000 They train in military tactics.

01:20:02.000 And they are the big gun and the long arm of the IRS and the criminal system that is running this nation.

01:20:09.000 Make no mistake, the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only.

01:20:15.000 It was about terrorism against the American people.

01:20:18.000 It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground.

01:20:26.000 Waco Rules of Engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building.

01:20:33.000 That's where most of the bodies were found, right in the edge.

01:20:36.000 Hit squads, military black ops, the same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933. I mean, where is our country when Ex-Attorney Generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same people.

01:20:59.000 I mean, it just makes my heart swell with pride that we do have people like Ramsey Clark and others and this whole crowd out here that is standing in defiance of tyranny.

01:21:09.000 And I'll take a line from that movie Braveheart.

01:21:15.000 What would you give dying in your bed all these years from now to have just once stood up in defiance of tyranny to put on the armor and to ride out on the field against the enemy?

01:21:26.000 And violence is not the way to go.

01:21:28.000 They are the ones that use violence.

01:21:31.000 They are the ones that are dangerous.

01:21:36.000 Understand that.

01:21:37.000 We've got to use information like Waco.

01:21:40.000 Rules of Engagement.

01:21:42.000 I mean, that documentary is so powerful because it doesn't exaggerate.

01:21:46.000 It doesn't lie.

01:21:47.000 For three hours, it lays out the information for you to see.

01:21:51.000 And where is the mainstream media editing this information out?

01:21:54.000 You have federal agents killing men, women, and children.

01:21:59.000 They came that day and opened fire first.

01:22:02.000 Helicopters came in and assaulted.

01:22:04.000 And now we find out, and it's going to come out in the next documentary.

01:22:08.000 And think about this.

01:22:10.000 That they sent in death squads with breathing apparatus to kill those people inside because they couldn't have any witnesses of what really happened on the first day of the 51-day standoff.

01:22:21.000 So we're dealing with murder, we're dealing with terrorism against the American people, and this is nothing new in the history of the world.

01:22:30.000 Authoritarian regimes always seek to control the modes of finance, the printing of money, transportation.

01:22:38.000 Food production, you name it, it's all coming under federal control under the guise of environmentalism, which is nothing but a cult now.

01:22:46.000 It's very, very serious.

01:22:48.000 Somebody has got to stand up.

01:22:51.000 More people have got to stand up.

01:22:53.000 FEMA, under Senate Resolution 21, is building hundreds of concentration camps on military bases.

01:23:02.000 Set up for families.

01:23:04.000 Areas for men. 0.99

01:23:05.000 Areas for women.

01:23:06.000 Areas for women with children.

01:23:08.000 And areas for men who have families on the other side of the camp.

01:23:11.000 And by the way, they have triple the guard towers.

01:23:13.000 And I have played this many times on my television show.

01:23:16.000 It's just out of control.

01:23:17.000 I have congressmen on tape, Henry B. Gonzalez and others, admitting this.

01:23:23.000 Look at the world.

01:23:24.000 And then I'm going to get off here because others have a lot more to say than me.

01:23:28.000 Hitler killed 40 million. 0.56

01:23:30.000 The Communists in Russia killed about 100 million.

01:23:32.000 The Communist Chinese, we're not sure, 100, 200 million.

01:23:35.000 And it's still going on.

01:23:36.000 We're buying slave goods from these people. 0.60

01:23:38.000 They're moving into Long Beach Naval Base.

01:23:40.000 They're moving into the high desert of California at Victorville and Atalanto and building 20 mini-malls to bring in slave goods directly. 0.78

01:23:48.000 This is a de-industrialization of our plan.

01:23:52.000 And it is just sick what's happening to our country.

01:23:56.000 And people have got to stand up.

01:23:58.000 Against it if freedom is going to survive.

01:24:01.000 And the plans are there.

01:24:03.000 Make no mistake, but don't be fearful.

01:24:05.000 People that lay down.

01:24:07.000 I mean, ask yourself, how did the Germans allow Hitler to come to power?

01:24:10.000 They believed it's propaganda.

01:24:12.000 Most of the death camps were off in Poland.

01:24:14.000 Keep it away.

01:24:15.000 Keep it on military bases.

01:24:16.000 Keep it behind closed doors.

01:24:18.000 This is what's happening.

01:24:19.000 Make no mistake.

01:24:21.000 And the mainstream media is going around last week in Austin.

01:24:25.000 A mainstream media station went out and had reporters on the street asking, where will terrorists strike next?

01:24:31.000 They're introducing this into the psychology.

01:24:34.000 They're creating a new cosmology of fear and preparing people for terrorism.

01:24:39.000 And I just want to warn you one more time.

01:24:42.000 State-sponsored terrorism is the number one brand worldwide.

01:24:46.000 Oklahoma City was terrorism.

01:24:49.000 What happened right here where I'm standing in Waco?

01:24:54.000 Back in 1993, on April 19th, with state-sponsored terrorism, it was a test to see if you'd lay down.

01:25:00.000 And I'm telling you something, they're taken back now because their propaganda and their lies worked for a while, but you see that the polls are changing.

01:25:07.000 More and more people are waking up to what's happening.

01:25:10.000 So I want to challenge you to talk to ten people a week, get them to see Waco Rules of Engagement.

01:25:15.000 I have nothing to do with this documentary, but it's so incredibly powerful.

01:25:19.000 You have got to get this and get it into congressmen's hands, your friends' hands, judges in your local cities, because this can be a revelation to the people of America, to the people that just want to be pragmatic.

01:25:34.000 To the people that are just relativists and don't care as long as charity doesn't come knocking on their door.

01:25:39.000 And I'll just paraphrase this.

01:25:41.000 We've all heard the famous quotes and statements.

01:25:46.000 When they came for the Jews, they didn't come for me, so I left it alone. 0.99

01:25:50.000 When they came for the Catholics, when they came for all these different groups, I stayed there. 1.00

01:25:54.000 And finally, when they came for me, there was nobody left to stand up for me.

01:25:59.000 This is the real deal.

01:26:01.000 This is human history.

01:26:04.000 Foggy conspiracy theory.

01:26:05.000 I have to tell you, three years ago, four years ago, I thought what happened at Waco was wrong.

01:26:09.000 But I thought, I mean, I believed a little bit of the propaganda.

01:26:12.000 I thought, well, you know, this and that.

01:26:14.000 And the more I studied this, the more I found out it's worse than even what Waco Rules of Engagement or Day 51 Had to offer and that's why I'm glad that they're coming out with a new documentary because this is what it's going to take.

01:26:27.000 It's going to take information to the public.

01:26:30.000 Information is power.

01:26:31.000 So stop reacting and start acting and stand up against this police state or we're going into 100% taxation, 100% tyranny.

01:26:40.000 And just because it's packaged sweetly and has a nice flashy exterior, the interior is barbed wire and pure slavery.

01:26:50.000 Thank you all for being here.

01:26:51.000 Thanks, Alex.

01:27:01.000 He was attorney general during LBJ's administration, and he said some very stunning information that a lot of us in the freedom movement know about, but a lot of people out there in the mainstream because of the press don't know about.

01:27:14.000 He was talking about the growing police state.

01:27:16.000 Sir, would you like to make some comments on that?

01:27:18.000 Well, our government has become the greatest purveyor of violence on Earth, as Dr. King said it was in 1967. But today it's gone beyond all reasonable bounds.

01:27:31.000 $265 billion in military expenditures, which is probably half of all the military expenditures in the world.

01:27:37.000 It exceeds the next biggest government by five-fold.

01:27:40.000 It exceeds the entire military expenditures of the National Security Council.

01:27:45.000 And it includes things like the Trident II nuclear submarine, which could wipe out millions and millions of people with a single launch.

01:27:52.000 It trains people like the School for the Americas to go into Chiapas, Mexico, and kill Mayan Indians who were starving to death with our NAFTA thing that's driven their corn off the market because they can't compete with us and can't sell their surplus corn to make a little money to buy some water purifiers so their kids don't get sick and die from polluted.

01:28:16.000 Water.

01:28:16.000 This militarism, you know, we'd never had a standing army before the Civil War.

01:28:23.000 Now we've got this huge standing army with more than 200,000 troops permanently stationed overseas, the largest naval armada in the world since World War II and the Persian Gulf on a permanent basis.

01:28:35.000 And that's not the land of the free and the home of the brave.

01:28:38.000 We weren't cut out to do that.

01:28:40.000 Here at home, you see things like Waco, which show that we carry over our militarism right into our churches to assault church people.

01:28:52.000 Well, yes, sir.

01:28:53.000 My first question is, or my first statement about this is, is you're absolutely right.

01:28:57.000 I mean, we have military training, people in black ski masks, with the MJTF, Multi-Jurisdictional Task Forces, training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin, Texas, where I'm from, and I found out that this is a nationwide movement.

01:29:11.000 Sure it is.

01:29:11.000 And the sad part is, you know, the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat.

01:29:17.000 He's the one who gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stops someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that.

01:29:24.000 Instead, they love to be SWAT team.

01:29:26.000 It's the thin blue line.

01:29:27.000 They're teaching them.

01:29:29.000 In fact, I've heard police...

01:29:30.000 Pretty thick blue line right now.

01:29:31.000 I've done interviews at protests and things, and the police walk up and say, stay behind the demarcation line.

01:29:36.000 And you'll hear them talking.

01:29:37.000 Watch the civilians.

01:29:38.000 They're using military terminology.

01:29:39.000 Is this dangerous?

01:29:41.000 Of course it's dangerous.

01:29:42.000 The paramilitary concept of police is a police state, you know.

01:29:47.000 And our Constitution was created to prevent a police state.

01:29:51.000 Yet our police expenditures, our creation of the fear of crime and the belief that you can solve crime by more prisons, by the death penalty, and by beating people in the head is crazy.

01:30:03.000 It's just war with our own society, and you see it come to a head at a peaceful church outside of Waco, Texas, Mount Carmel.

01:30:10.000 And just to talk a little bit more about the police state, and I appreciate you doing this interview, Mr. Clark.

01:30:15.000 That is the dangerous part about it.

01:30:18.000 Eisenhower, Kennedy, many others warned us about the military-industrial complex, and now since we've dominated the whole planet, they are now still selling fear, but now they're selling fear of the American people.

01:30:28.000 They're making us the enemy.

01:30:31.000 Well, I think that's right.

01:30:32.000 Our prison population in Texas is the worst of all in many ways, just as Texas is absolutely the worst on the death penalty.

01:30:39.000 Half the people executed in the United States last year were executed in Texas.

01:30:43.000 You've got the...

01:30:44.000 Literally, you've got the Pope pleading with us not to execute people.

01:30:48.000 You've got the United Nations Human Rights Commission pleading with us.

01:30:51.000 South Africa, who caused us, when apartheid was in power there, to abolish the death penalty, as we did when I was Attorney General.

01:31:01.000 We cut out the death penalty.

01:31:02.000 We haven't had a federal execution since 1963, but we could point to South Africa, where they were executing a person a day, all black. 0.94

01:31:10.000 And we didn't want to be like that, so we abolished it.

01:31:13.000 Now they've abolished the death penalty in South Africa.

01:31:15.000 The Constitution has abolished it.

01:31:17.000 The Parliament's abolished it.

01:31:19.000 The Supreme Court's abolished it.

01:31:20.000 And we're the Lord High Executioner.

01:31:21.000 We've got more than 3,000 people on death row.

01:31:23.000 What does that mean? 0.99

01:31:24.000 No free society tells people, do what we say or we'll kill you. 0.99

01:31:28.000 Yes.

01:31:28.000 I mean, that's the mentality of a police state.

01:31:31.000 Well, Mr. Clark, just a couple more questions.

01:31:33.000 Again, Attorney General in the LBJ administration.

01:31:37.000 And you also worked in the Kennedy and the...

01:31:40.000 Carter administration?

01:31:41.000 I worked eight years Kennedy-Johnson.

01:31:43.000 I did one assignment, maybe two, for President Carter, the first one having to do with the hostages.

01:31:52.000 I was mistaken.

01:31:52.000 I got up in front of the podium and got it mixed up.

01:31:56.000 But the thing that I don't think that the American public realizes is that this military training is going on.

01:32:02.000 What are some things that we can do to get this reversed, hopefully?

01:32:06.000 Well, I think we have to...

01:32:08.000 Resist at every level.

01:32:09.000 If you don't work at the national level, you can't expect the local level.

01:32:13.000 I mean, after all, we're providing a lot of federal funds for the local level, and they love it.

01:32:17.000 And that brings control.

01:32:18.000 It brings control.

01:32:18.000 It brings technology.

01:32:19.000 It brings things they don't need, you know.

01:32:21.000 Infrared.

01:32:22.000 Who needed tanks out here?

01:32:23.000 Yeah, you've got everything that billions and billions of dollars of research and development to provide the military are now being...

01:32:30.000 It's going into civilian control.

01:32:33.000 Have you seen Waco Rules of Engagement?

01:32:35.000 Sure.

01:32:36.000 It's horrifying, isn't it?

01:32:37.000 It's horrifying.

01:32:38.000 The whole story is even more horrifying.

01:32:41.000 Sir, I didn't actually see this last year, but I heard about it reported in some of the alternative press.

01:32:48.000 Is it true that last year you spoke about how the Trilateral Commission is running the country?

01:32:53.000 Well, I've criticized the Trilateral Commission for many years, but I don't really think the Trilateral Commission is running the country.

01:33:01.000 CFR? I think the same people are...

01:33:03.000 They control it.

01:33:04.000 The same people that run the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations.

01:33:08.000 Those are just front groups?

01:33:09.000 Sure.

01:33:10.000 I mean, they're just...

01:33:10.000 Meeting houses.

01:33:11.000 They're organizations through which they implement their power, and it's an international group that maintains power through the multinational corporations and the media and all the rest.

01:33:19.000 Yes, sir.

01:33:20.000 And wouldn't you say that now what you have is corporate socialism for them and slavery for us?

01:33:27.000 Well, you've got corporate wealth for them.

01:33:33.000 They don't...

01:33:33.000 It's called stealing.

01:33:35.000 It could be called stealing, although it's stealing on such a grand scale that you'd have to call it grand larceny, I think.

01:33:41.000 Yes, sir.

01:33:41.000 I think I've said this three times, but just the last...

01:33:43.000 Well, are there any comments or things that you'd like to say to the audience in Austin who's going to be watching this about what they...

01:33:51.000 I mean, I just want to go back to solutions.

01:33:53.000 We see an awakening in the nation, and we see the establishment and the media becoming conscious of this, and now I've seen a new tactic.

01:34:00.000 They're now disclosing more and more abhorrent information in an attempt to desensitize this, in my opinion.

01:34:05.000 Would you agree with that, and do you have any comments to that?

01:34:08.000 Well, propaganda is one of the main means.

01:34:11.000 They employ demonization, fear of crime, and things like that.

01:34:14.000 But every individual...

01:34:15.000 The Hegelian principle?

01:34:17.000 Every individual has an obligation to...

01:34:20.000 Don't be involved in this struggle if you want to live free and want your children who come after to live free.

01:34:27.000 You can't be a bystander.

01:34:29.000 And right now we really risk the spread of militarization throughout the world that is endangering the poor everywhere.

01:34:38.000 It's a desire to...

01:34:39.000 We're controlled by force.

01:34:41.000 There's so many people and so much poverty, and there's so much technology that can destroy people that it's being employed against people everywhere.

01:34:48.000 The poor here, the poor nations abroad, so we have to work on... 1.00

01:34:52.000 We're slashing our military budget to the bare bones.

01:34:55.000 It ought to be slashed 90%.

01:34:56.000 We've got to cut back on all hardware for police.

01:35:00.000 Police ought to serve the people, not be a force.

01:35:02.000 It shouldn't be a paramilitary concept.

01:35:04.000 It ought to be a social service concept that deals sensitively with the people.

01:35:08.000 We have to deal with the basic problems.

01:35:10.000 While we have poverty, we're going to have the problems that poverty creates.

01:35:14.000 Poverty is the mother of crime.

01:35:15.000 Plato told us that 2,500 years ago, and it was pretty obvious then.

01:35:19.000 It's pretty obvious now.

01:35:20.000 Yes, sir.

01:35:21.000 Got to go.

01:35:22.000 Yeah, thanks a lot.

01:35:23.000 Appreciate it.

01:35:25.000 And as a result, the men, women, and children died.

01:35:28.000 Also, one of the tanks drove inside the structure, and this is even admitted to by the FBI, and there was an inside area, an area where they stored food and things that was concrete, and they thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there.

01:35:43.000 They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form of chemical weapon.

01:35:47.000 Point-blank range into children's faces.

01:35:49.000 They don't make gas masks that fit two- and three- and four-year-old children, my friends.

01:35:55.000 This is incredible. 0.95

01:35:56.000 No matter what propaganda you want to believe, those babies did not deserve to be murdered by the black ski mask thugs. 1.00

01:36:03.000 That didn't come out in the trial. 0.99

01:36:17.000 You're some kind of provocateur.

01:36:18.000 In fact, you're one of those FBI agents, aren't you?

01:36:20.000 Hey, we're in the middle of one of our interviews right now. 0.92

01:36:21.000 I don't personally, I don't give a damn.

01:36:23.000 I don't give a damn about the jury either.

01:36:24.000 Oh, yeah, you're not going to do anything to me. 1.00

01:36:26.000 These people are murderers. 1.00

01:36:28.000 These people are murderers. 1.00

01:36:29.000 I'm sick and tired of hearing your lies when you machine gunned a bunch of men, women, and children. 1.00

01:36:33.000 You got a big problem, buddy. 0.99

01:36:35.000 You sit over here.

01:36:36.000 I'm not afraid of you guys.

01:36:37.000 I'm a law-abiding citizen, and I'm sick of it.

01:36:39.000 You sit over here and you talk about how the children huddle in the corner and how the ammunition that they had is what killed them. 0.99

01:36:44.000 All the rest of your garbage? 1.00

01:36:46.000 You ought to be ashamed of yourself. 1.00

01:36:48.000 You don't stand up for the Constitution.

01:36:49.000 You stand for zip, not a zero.

01:36:51.000 I heard that.

01:36:51.000 You have no calm aplomb.

01:36:53.000 It's false, my friend.

01:36:54.000 And let me tell you, a lot of people are writing down your names.

01:36:57.000 You can follow people around.

01:36:58.000 You can harass people.

01:36:59.000 You can back up your bankster buddies.

01:37:01.000 But a revolution of peaceful information is coming.

01:37:04.000 And when it comes time, you people are going to be brought to punishment.

01:37:07.000 You understand?

01:37:07.000 Just like Nuremberg.

01:37:09.000 Just taking orders doesn't cut it, my friend.

01:37:11.000 You understand me?

01:37:13.000 I think I've assessed you.

01:37:14.000 Yeah, oh, you've assessed me.

01:37:16.000 Listen, you can sit there and say some kind of little joke. 0.99

01:37:18.000 All your texts put garbage, my friend. 0.95

01:37:20.000 I got people like General Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development. 0.97

01:37:24.000 We know the federal government destroyed Oklahoma.

01:37:26.000 It's proven.

01:37:27.000 We know what you guys are engaged in, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag. 0.57

01:37:30.000 We know you brought Nazis over here through the rat line to set up our CIA after the OSS. So you can't sit here. 0.84

01:37:37.000 You can assess me all day.

01:37:38.000 I want you to assess me.

01:37:39.000 I've assessed you.

01:37:40.000 A smiley face slime ball that sits here in soft pedals and tries to placate the media.

01:37:46.000 Waco Rules of Engagement shows your agents machine gunning men, women, and children as they tried to exit.

01:37:51.000 One of the inventors of Flare Technology, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, is on that documentary.

01:37:56.000 He is of the establishment.

01:37:57.000 If you would review the documentary, you'd find out I'm in the film as well.

01:38:00.000 Yeah.

01:38:01.000 Well, yes, I just saw you over here.

01:38:04.000 I watched the first time it came out.

01:38:06.000 You obviously haven't reviewed it.

01:38:08.000 You are backpedaling.

01:38:09.000 Okay, that's fine.

01:38:09.000 I think it is soft pedaling.

01:38:10.000 I heard enough.

01:38:11.000 I sat over there for about three minutes to listen to you.

01:38:13.000 Then you can move on.

01:38:13.000 Okay, I am moving on, but you're not in control of the situation, Mr. Assessor.

01:38:17.000 Okay.

01:38:18.000 I'll tell you, I'll just stand right here.

01:38:19.000 Good.

01:38:20.000 I mean, you sit there.

01:38:21.000 I'm not sitting.

01:38:22.000 I'm standing.

01:38:23.000 No, you're not looking down on me, okay?

01:38:24.000 You sit there all smiley-faced.

01:38:26.000 You've already prejudged me.

01:38:27.000 I can look down on you all I want to, Mr. Good, good.

01:38:30.000 Well, that's fine, Mr. Okay, good.

01:38:32.000 Are you ready to move on?

01:38:33.000 I'd like to, if you don't mind.

01:38:34.000 Didn't you hear what I said?

01:38:36.000 Didn't you hear what I said?

01:38:38.000 No.

01:38:39.000 Yeah, but we don't need this type of placating.

01:38:42.000 Somebody coming in and saying, oh, I'm so sorry that we did this.

01:38:45.000 We don't need that.

01:38:46.000 We need indictments.

01:38:47.000 Then you need to go and you need to call for indictments of Janet Reno.

01:38:50.000 Are you calling for an indictment of Janet Reno?

01:38:52.000 No.

01:38:53.000 Herman, Goering, and Drag?

01:38:54.000 No.

01:38:55.000 Oh, so you're not calling for Herman, Goering, and Drag?

01:38:57.000 What about the people who ran the tanks through this place?

01:38:59.000 Yeah.

01:39:03.000 Well, here you have it, right here.

01:39:06.000 We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas in point blank range, and then they pushed all the rubble over there.

01:39:15.000 So the bunker was somewhere over in this area.

01:39:19.000 This is just more of Big Brother, and we just went over there to one of the FBI negotiators, who's now over here soft peddling things.

01:39:25.000 And he's not calling for indictments of Reno.

01:39:29.000 Herman Goering and Drag.

01:39:31.000 You know, all these slaves are going to get what they asked for. 0.99

01:39:34.000 The IRS bending people over all day and all night.

01:39:38.000 It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all these slimy cronies.

01:39:41.000 Let's get out of here.

01:39:42.000 I want to get out of this place.

01:39:43.000 This place is depressing.

01:39:45.000 He sat right there and looked me in the eye and talked about, "I'm assessing you, that FBI assessor, that FBI con man that came out here, that negotiator." And he's sorry about what happened, but tries to put some of the blame on the Davidians.

01:40:06.000 I'm here to tell you right now what they did was out of control and wrong.

01:40:09.000 And if he's so good at assessing people, then he sure as hell assessed the Davidians wrong. 0.95

01:40:15.000 And they sure as hell murdered those people.

01:40:17.000 I'm not going to sit down with...

01:40:19.000 San Diego.

01:40:20.000 Do you know Anthony Hilder?

01:40:22.000 No.

01:40:23.000 No, do you know...

01:40:24.000 Well, Tom...

01:40:25.000 All right, we're leaving, guys.

01:40:26.000 It's been a big success. 0.99

01:40:27.000 I just chewed out an FBI agent, that piece of garbage. 0.99

01:40:29.000 We'll be right back. 1.00

01:40:31.000 There it is.

01:40:32.000 We're gone.

01:40:33.000 We're leaving the scene of terror.

01:40:35.000 Where's the FBI agent?

01:40:37.000 Which one's the FBI agent?

01:40:39.000 I went and shoot him out way down there.

01:40:42.000 Is that on tape?

01:40:43.000 Yeah I forgot why I got so angry You know I forgot why I got so angry

01:41:07.000 Y'all ready?

01:41:15.000 I blew up at that FBI negotiator because, you know, I forgot once I got in an argument with him and he played good cop, bad cop, Mr. Sweetie Pants.

01:41:26.000 I was sitting there listening for about three minutes while he was talking about the poor children and all this, but Koresh had explosives and live grenades and illegal weapons and 500,000 rounds of ammunition was above them and fell and crushed the children.

01:41:41.000 No, they had bullet holes in their heads and the footage shows, Waco rules of engagement, automatic weapons fire.

01:41:46.000 That's why I'm pissed.

01:41:47.000 Yeah, but you're saying that they had 500,000 rounds of ammunition.

01:41:50.000 On top of them?

01:41:52.000 Yes.

01:41:54.000 They didn't have 500,000 rounds of ammunition.

01:41:56.000 I just talked to Clive Doyle.

01:41:58.000 Oh, and Clive is the expert on the total number of pieces of ammo.

01:42:02.000 Yes!

01:42:02.000 He's up there lying, the same reason they got that phony warrant and went in there and killed those people!

01:42:07.000 I mean, when are we going to stop letting these people placate us? 1.00

01:42:10.000 It's a bunch of crap. 1.00

01:42:11.000 A bunch of kids got killed, and that's why I got in that punk's face. 1.00

01:42:17.000 And I don't care if he runs back and fills out some report on me. 0.99

01:42:19.000 I don't care if they send somebody to blow my brains out. 0.99

01:42:22.000 Because if we don't start standing up to these punks, we're going to take the whole damn country over. 0.99

01:42:25.000 They already control the whole world, and this nation is sinking right now into authoritarian control. 0.98

01:42:30.000 And, hey, I'm not repeating the same thing over and over again.

01:42:32.000 It'll be the same thing tomorrow.

01:42:34.000 We are in a police state.

01:42:35.000 It's only how many increments will we allow?

01:42:40.000 What will be the level, the decibel level, of this slave state? 0.50

01:42:43.000 So, again, the reason I got mad at that guy, and I totally forgot during the argument because I was so angry, was I heard him over there talking about live grenades.

01:42:51.000 There were no live grenades found.

01:42:53.000 There were a few dummy grenades that you can buy as a paperweight on your desk.

01:42:58.000 You see them?

01:42:58.000 And yes, they did sell them.

01:43:01.000 You can go to an Army-Navy store and buy them.

01:43:03.000 And all the live grenades that there were was ones that had the FBI.

01:43:07.000 The FBI admits that they were firing ferret rounds, explosive incendiary rounds, into a place that they've pumped CS gas into that's highly flammable!

01:43:15.000 No wonder the whole place burst into flames.

01:43:17.000 God!

01:43:18.000 And you got that FBI stooge up there soft-soaking to the media.

01:43:22.000 I'm sick of them.

01:43:23.000 That's why I got pissed off at him.

01:43:25.000 Somebody's got to do it.

01:43:27.000 Did anybody ask him the question about all the evidence that they tried to suppress there at the scene, such as bulldozing the cars?

01:43:37.000 I was only listening for about three minutes.

01:43:39.000 He was pointing to a pile of rubble that was the bulldozed bunker and saying that was the bunker.

01:43:43.000 Here's where the poor children died.

01:43:46.000 You know, Koresh had all those guns and 500,000 rounds of, which is pure bull.

01:43:52.000 That's millions and millions of dollars of ammunition.

01:43:54.000 Yes, 500,000 rounds of ammunition above them.

01:43:57.000 They were sitting there saying that and live grenades.

01:44:00.000 That's just pure lies.

01:44:01.000 It was something that Clive Doyle, one of the Survali Branch Davidians, who was in all 51 days and barely got out alive through the front and crawled out on the ground with burns all over his body.

01:44:11.000 All the guns were at a gun show, or 90% of them, And think back to the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter.

01:44:20.000 Think about this.

01:44:21.000 Now, this is very important.

01:44:22.000 Those guns weren't burnt.

01:44:24.000 Those MAC-90s and weapons that they held up that were legal guns, semi-automatic versions, fully automatic versions, they were brown wood.

01:44:34.000 They weren't even burnt.

01:44:36.000 They just went and got some guns and just said, it's all lies.

01:44:40.000 When are we going to get sick and tired of this?

01:44:42.000 Who's got the guns, Alex?

01:44:46.000 Who's got the guns now?

01:44:47.000 And where's the missing front door?

01:44:49.000 They showed, because all the holes in the door were all incoming rounds from outside into the building, and there's two white steel doors, and the one on the left is the only one that they'll show the public, and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet holes in it, as I'll show you in this picture right and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet Stop asking questions, right winger.

01:45:10.000 Let me find the picture here, Mike.

01:45:16.000 You can plainly see BATF agents kneeling unprotected, not behind anything, right in front of the front door, and you can see the incoming bullet holes in the white steel doors.

01:45:27.000 Bullet holes.

01:45:28.000 One of them, the one with the damning evidence, has mysteriously disappeared, and the rest of the rubble has, of course, all been destroyed.

Alex Jones Show - April 19, 1998

Alex Jones Steve Lane Waco 5th Rememberance

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