On April 19th, 1993, a group of members of the Branch Davidian cult were taken into custody and held in a remote location in Waco, Texas. They were taken in for questioning by ATF agents. The question was, who were these agents and what was their involvement in this crime?
00:00:48.000We're traveling, myself and Steve Lane and many others, to Waco to the scene of the April 19, 1993 Butcher Massacre of Clinton.
00:01:01.000The impotent, pus-filled agent, trying to feel empowered, ordered his henchmen to go out and murder a church community and then drum up all sorts of propaganda as a test to see if they can kill people in the future.
00:01:15.000And as we saw in Oklahoma City in 1995, when government black ops, secret murder squads, went in and destroyed that building, they can get away with almost anything now here in this nation.
00:01:27.000It's going to take people getting involved.
00:01:29.000And being conscious of this information and being willing to put it on the line, to put on the armor, and to ride out against the enemy, because there's nothing like smashing, pus-filled bureaucrats' heads in.
00:01:47.000There were a few government agents there.
00:01:50.000Soft-soaking and selling their government line.
00:01:54.000The same old lies, the same old information.
00:01:56.000But more and more of the facts are coming out.
00:01:58.000We just got done eating here on the Brazos River in Waco, and just a lot of good people, a lot of people that just want the truth to come out about what happened here in Waco, Texas in 1993 on April 19th.
00:02:13.000It's also a shame that this day on April 19th was in 95, the Murrow Federal Building, where government black ops secret squads, according to General Parton and many others, went in and destroyed that building.
00:02:27.000See, it would have been too damaging to our government to have had Waco in the psyche, so they had to offset it by another terrorist act.
00:02:35.000I know this is stunning information, but I've documented it at least a thousand times, and many others have too, like Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI Crime Lab, Ted Gunnarsson, ex-FBI chief of California.
00:02:49.000And I don't want to repeat the same things over and over, but the answers will always be the same.
00:02:53.000tyranny has an appetite for power and corruption.
00:02:56.000Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
00:02:59.000And those that have the appetite for power and the will that consumes them are capable of incredible despotic feats of despotism.
00:03:08.000Let's not let this happen again, but I assure you it will happen in the future.
00:03:13.000Americans are laying down far too much.
00:03:16.000It's going to take a renaissance of information to bring forward the truth here in our age.
00:03:22.000This is April 19th, 1998, five years after the murder of children.
00:03:29.000We were just reading the Austin American Statesman.
00:03:33.000It talks about David Koresh being some sort of cult leader.
00:03:38.000Of course, the media doesn't want to discuss Waco rules of engagement, and I was surprised that it was nominated for an Academy Award, but of course it didn't win.
00:03:47.000We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder.
00:03:54.000Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles, and the BATF wanted more funding, they wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature.
00:04:06.000So they surrounded the place, opened fire with helicopters, and then 51 days later, set it on fire, sent hit teams inside, and murdered the people.
00:04:15.000Those that tried to escape were machine guns from outside.
00:04:18.000Only a couple people got out alive, and that's because they came out the front.
00:04:39.000I'm here personally because I want to educate myself more about this, more about what happened here.
00:04:44.000I'm not really as informed as a lot of people are about the attack that occurred here.
00:04:49.000And I thought it was important to come here and see the site for myself and meet the people that were involved and get a more rounded education about the subject than what I think what we typically get through the mainstream media sources.
00:05:07.000One of the things that we do at the conference is we try and expose corrupt government and educate people about what's really going on in the world.
00:05:17.000I think because of the Soundbite nature of mainstream media, individuals don't get the type of education that they should to make informed choices, and we try and get them more pertinent information so they can make better informed choices.
00:05:34.000Okay, do you think that what happened here wasn't?
00:05:38.000I couldn't make, I didn't really formulate an opinion here, and what happened was a libertarian friend of mine made the point that regardless If there were laws being broken here, if there were illegal weapons being stored here, that sort of thing, how can you justify killing all those women and children?
00:05:56.000And regardless of what might have occurred here before the ATF and the FBI arrived, you can't justify killing women and children like that.
00:07:16.000I've never been here before, never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around.
00:07:24.000Hey, Miss Madison, I really appreciate you taking the time out to show us around because this is my first time here and I really don't know very much about what happened out here and this is more of an educational trip for me.
00:12:23.000To people who might be watching this tape, I mean, I've heard a lot of criticisms of the Branch Davidians.
00:12:32.000To you people that are being critical of the Branch Davidians, you justify to me, how can you justify killing a child that's a year and a half old?
00:12:40.000I have an eight-month-old at home, and a child that's a year and a half old can't shoot people.
00:14:39.000Deal with those issues, and hopefully when we've dealt with them, we're in the process of making that film, and I'm finding very little cooperation from people who were involved.
00:14:48.000People like Bob Ricks, or Jeff Jamar, or Dick Wright.
00:14:51.000He was head of the FBI at that operation, correct?
00:15:10.000Well, I can appreciate why they might not be, but the fact of the matter is these are the same fellows that are out bad-mouthing my film, and I think it's only appropriate first that they see the film before they bad-mouth it.
00:15:21.000And then once they've had that opportunity that they also spend some time answering the questions raised in the film as opposed to just being critical in sort of a general haphazard way.
00:15:34.000Mr. McNulty, I have seen your documentary when it premiered in Austin, Texas to a packed house at the Dobie at UT. And I was ashamed that our newspaper didn't do a front cover story.
00:15:45.000They did it in the movie section and they said it showed troubling information, showed...
00:15:50.000Federal agents firing from their sniper points and actually up right next to the church or what the media would call the compound.
00:15:58.000I know some new documentation is coming out that's even worse than just the feds firing at women and children as they tried to exit the burning building through the cafeteria area.
00:16:08.000Now, is it true that some documentation is coming out, if you want to go ahead and release this, I've heard it from others, that they actually sent in hit squads?
00:16:38.000Just a couple more questions if you have the time.
00:16:41.000You say that you've run into a brick wall now that your documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, has gotten so much attention.
00:16:47.000Because of the methodical nature and how well organized the information is, do you think that your next film will be given more attention than this one, or do you think that the propaganda machine and the mainstream media will continue to attack it despite the fact that most of these people haven't even seen the documentary?
00:17:07.000I think the interesting point about people attacking the film now is it's been out for a year, it's completed a theatrical run, it's been released in home video, and they're just getting around to paying attention to it.
00:17:18.000When I say they, I mean people like Bob Riggs.
00:17:21.000Buck Revell and these others that were former FBI agents involved in Waco in 1993. I think they're sort of a dollar short and a day late.
00:17:30.000The horse is out of the barn and it comes across as nothing more than sour grapes.
00:17:35.000So you're saying that due to their arrogance they ignored this powerful information and now it's gotten pretty big and they're starting to panic?
00:17:43.000I don't know if panic's the right word, but certainly they've begun to pay attention where they hadn't for the past year and a half.
00:17:49.000And ultimately, all that tells me is these fellas have got something on their mind.
00:17:54.000And I have contacted them recently, like Bob Ricks, and given them the opportunity to speak their piece, to state their side of the story.
00:18:06.000So in my mind, all that tells me is they've got something to hide.
00:18:10.000So if that's the case, then shame on them.
00:18:12.000Well, that's exactly what they did when they held the media back and then in the press conference said, well, you're lucky that you're that far.
00:18:19.000But we don't want you seeing what we're doing.
00:18:20.000But we're not going to go in there and do any kind of assault.
00:18:26.000I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and a radio show.
00:18:40.000But on the other hand, the birth of that type of communications.
00:18:47.000It's a good thing, because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to the people of the Justice Department for fear of losing news sources.
00:18:57.000So perhaps it's a good thing, and perhaps there is good that's come out of the situation at Wake Up.
00:19:26.000How can the media continually lie about this and not come full force out with indictments against certain people when this documentary does show federal agents?
00:19:37.000In your opinion, who was it firing the automatic weapons?
00:19:42.000Who is firing the automatic weapons at the back of the building on April 19th will be revealed in the new film.
00:19:47.000In terms of, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job?
00:20:21.000So you have seen the inventor, the man that holds three of the patents, three of the four patents on flare technology, telling you that those are sniper points firing automatic weapons.
00:20:33.000I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before.
00:20:36.000I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it, but I thought it was interesting.
00:20:42.000I thought it was a different perspective and it taught me something I didn't know before.
00:20:46.000Are you aware that our Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, just created ten regional teams to work with local law enforcement?
00:20:52.000That is absolutely unconstitutional, and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country.
00:20:56.000Are you aware that General Benton Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development, says that Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building?
00:21:11.000If you want, I will send y'all footage from CNN the day of the bombing where they were removing unexploded bombs from the girders inside Oklahoma.
00:21:19.000I've worked on the McVeigh trial out in Denver.
00:21:33.000Steve Lane again with the Freedom Report.
00:21:35.000They're getting ready to take a moment out here to ring the replica of the Liberty Bell and call off the names of the individuals who were murdered here at the church.
00:21:51.000We have behind us Clive Doyle, and there's the replica of the Liberty Bell, which, by the way, I've been meaning to ask some questions.
00:25:49.000Rachel Olivia Susanna Jones Howell Koresh, United States.
00:25:55.000Star Hollow Koresh United States Chica Jones Koresh, United States Little One Jones Koresh, United States Jell Jones Thibodeau, United States.
00:26:19.000Serenity C. Jones Koresh, United States.
00:33:04.000He's serving a 40-year sentence in Oklahoma City.
00:33:07.000He had been at Leavenworth, Kansas, where he was treated so inhumanely that there's a grand jury impaneled now to look at what some of the guards had been doing there.
00:33:24.000And that's why he is now in Oklahoma City during that investigation for fear that his life could be in danger if he was left there at Leavenworth.
00:33:34.000And so hopefully some of that may be straightened out.
00:33:39.000Livingston Fagan has had a very, very tough, tough five years, as they all have.
00:33:45.000But Livingston won't play their games.
00:33:49.000Has been put outside nude and hosed down in the winter and then put in a cold cell with nothing on because he just refuses to play any of their games.
00:34:01.000Those are the men that are in prison, and if you'd like to write them, we have the addresses available to where they all are, and I'm sure that they'd love to hear from you.
00:34:10.000Can we bow our heads just for a minute or so for those that lost their lives here five years ago?
00:34:33.000I'd like to personally, on behalf of all the Branch Davidians that are here, survivors, I'd like to thank you for coming today and spending your time and letting all of the survivors know exactly how you feel.
00:35:09.000Well, notice, looks like, yeah, we're fixing to finish our walk here with Catherine Madison, and I noticed in the, it looks to me like some sort of...
00:35:18.000And I'm not even joking around, a surveillance helicopter, because you'll notice on the nose of the helicopter, there's kind of a reflection of light.
00:35:24.000I don't know if you can see that on the video.
00:35:26.000And I can tell you from my stint in the military, that's indicative of surveillance equipment, cameras.
00:35:31.000The light reflects off the multiple lenses that they have, and clearly that's some sort of military helicopter.
00:35:46.000I refueled aircraft while I was in the Air Force.
00:35:49.000I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis.
00:35:54.000And again, that's indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment that they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s, different helicopters.
00:36:05.000There's standard surveillance cameras, also infrared.
00:36:12.000FLIR, they call it forward-looking infrared radar, and there's just no doubt in my mind the glint off of the reflection, which I hope you caught on the video, is just, well, there's no mistaking it.
00:36:25.000That's exactly where they put that surveillance equipment.
00:36:28.000He was a radio host in Dallas, Texas, who stood up.
00:36:32.000He's been in the documentary Day 51. He was one of the first people to speak out.
00:36:36.000Sir, how did you recognize immediately that army tanks and people in black ski masks surrounding a church was dangerous?
00:36:44.000Sunday morning, when it first got on television, I saw what was taking place, and I became irate about it.
00:36:51.000I mean, when you see people in black surrounding a home and just firing into the walls and into the windows, and there are government rules and regulations that state you have to have a target before you fire, they ran out of ammunition firing through walls.
00:37:07.000How come you can tell the difference between that, I can tell the difference between that, but the media said they fired first, but you can see the door, the front door was riddled with bullet holes?
00:37:17.000No, you can't see the front door because mysteriously the front door disappeared.
00:38:48.000I mean, what is it going to take for the dozen media cameras that were out here from stations all across the country to report on these facts?
00:39:21.000Publisher of the New York Times was asked to speak at a luncheon, and he said, if you think we are speaking what's telling what's true, you're absolutely wrong.
00:41:07.000Just like they're taking away our freedoms, just little tiny pieces at a time, and they use something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other catastrophe to say, see?
00:41:44.000We read all these names out there today, and that's real hard for me to do.
00:41:47.000I've done that before, and every time I do it, it just hurts badly.
00:41:52.000And if you think about the lives that were lost here and how they were lost, and put the blame squarely where it belongs, and it certainly doesn't belong on the Branch Davidians, because they were just living here peacefully.
00:42:14.000If all that was true, you don't fire into a home thousands and thousands of rounds from semi and fully automatic weapons, from helicopters out front into a place filled with children.
00:42:24.000And then you don't come in and set the place on fire.
00:42:32.000We have documentaries with the FBI's own footage, their own flare tapes as they fire at men, women, and children as they try to leave a burning building.
00:42:46.000Remember, when the fire was burning, while the fire was burning, there was a report that 20 people had come out the back of Mount Carmel.
00:42:54.000If you watch Waco, the rules of engagement, you'll see why those people aren't alive.
00:42:58.000They did come out the back of Mount Carmel.
00:43:00.000They were killed by federal agents in tanks outside the back.
00:43:04.000That's why they stopped the fire trucks while they hurriedly bulldozered the bodies back into the flames.
00:43:09.000In Waco Rules of Engagement, there's interviews with the Tarrant County Coroner's Office, and they sit there and tell you that one body wouldn't hardly be burnt, and the next body with bullet holes would be burnt to a char from gasoline.
00:43:19.000That's absolutely right, and that's why.
00:43:23.000If they hadn't done this, everyone in the country would have seen what the government really was.
00:43:27.000They demonized these people for 51 days with a 30-minute press briefing every day, and that press briefing was no more than lie after lie after lie.
00:43:37.000David Koresh to do something, he wouldn't do it.
00:43:40.000They were lying about him to the American public, and the sad thing is that the American public, the majority of the American public, still believes that the government was right.
00:44:20.000We're here with Bonnie Haldeman, David Koresh's mother.
00:44:24.000And there's quite a crowd out here today to, I guess, lend support and try to keep the memories alive of people that did die just trying to live their lives.
00:44:33.000How do you feel five years after the tragedy?
00:44:36.000Well, I feel pretty much like I did the same, you know, the day it happened.
00:44:40.000The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church, and their family, you know.
00:44:50.000The hurt's still there, and we're here to remember them.
00:44:54.000Bonnie Haldeman, she's the mother of David Koresh.
00:44:58.000Does it still feel as bad as it did five years ago?
00:45:04.000It's gotten a little easier in some aspects, but being out here sometimes and remembering sort of in your mind, you see everything that happened, especially looking at the pictures inside.
00:45:14.000You did a good job ringing the bell for the people that died here.
00:45:19.000You know, I've seen you here today and talked to you some.
00:45:22.000You seem like a really gentle, nice woman, and that makes me think even more so that all the stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son.
00:46:02.000The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and that this was a good community out here.
00:46:07.000He had come out here many times, you know, just in and talked to David, and Sheriff Harwell told me last year, he said, I'm sure, I'm sorry, Bonnie, what happened, if anything I can do for you.
00:46:30.000What would you say to the public in Austin, Texas, if there's just a few statements that you want to make to them about how they can avert this type of tragedy happening in the future?
00:46:42.000Well, we need to stand up for what we know is right and to demand that investigations be done on what happened here and see if it doesn't happen again.
00:48:39.000There they are where the children were huddled.
00:48:41.000And now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team with special breathing apparatus to kill everyone inside there and they placed a mine on top of the building.
00:48:50.000Here you can see them looking down through the hole.
00:48:51.000Here's more FBI provocateur agents there destroying evidence.
00:48:58.000And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads.
00:49:03.000These are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993...
00:49:11.000Here you have some of the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County Coroner's Examiner's Office, and that's in Waco Rules of Engagement, well documented.
00:49:21.000Here you have some more of the tough guy behavior.
00:49:24.000We can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day of the siege.
00:49:30.000They did quite a bit of that, but here's a real tough guy.
00:49:33.000He can fire into a building filled with men, women, and children while he wears body armor.
00:49:38.000And, of course, Here is some more BATF. You know, they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road, the first day that the conflagration of terror began.
00:49:51.000And here you have another tough guy with an automatic weapon, a HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon.
00:49:59.000That is an ATF, a U.S. government terrorist.
00:50:05.000And, of course, here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank, and they also had Abrams, the premier front-line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms, and the government never found any illegal weapons.
00:50:30.000Let's go ahead and look at what was and what is no more.
00:50:35.000Get a shot at Waco Rules of Engagement.
00:50:37.000You want to talk about a documentary that has the FBI's own flare footage as a machine gun, innocent men, women, and children as they tried to leave the church, the wooden structure known as a compound of the media, and to the purveyors of corruption.
00:50:51.000A lot is going on, and there's a new documentary supposedly coming out called Bullets Over Waco, The Survivor's Story.
00:50:57.000Let's go ahead and go over here now and look at some more of the documents.
00:51:02.000This was the first day of the standoff.
00:51:07.000This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front of the door when David Koresh opened it.
00:51:14.000They killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up.
00:52:13.000We're going through the entire 51 days now.
00:52:16.000Well, here you have what was going on at night, the lights, the sirens, Nancy Sinatra, the sound of squealing, dying rabbits.
00:52:24.000And then they started pumping in the CS gas, a band form.
00:52:28.000of tear gas because when it ignites it forms cyanide gas.
00:52:31.000Here you have the structure with all the thousands of tank treads around it.
00:52:43.000Here you have day 22, some of the people that came out were promptly sent to jail and labeled as terrorists.
00:52:52.000The BATF pulled up in cattle cars, fully exposed.
00:52:56.000If the Davidians were waiting to ambush them, like a lot of mainstream media, made-for-TV television propaganda shows, propagandize the people, right here you have the structure.
00:53:09.000And the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and Koresh raised his hands and said, stop, let's talk about this.
00:54:16.000People that were killed by federal forces.
00:54:20.000Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads, that is, secret military squads that accompanied the feds.
00:54:28.000We're told also that some British special forces teams were inserted to kill all the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened.
00:54:36.000And there, of course, you have the evidence before it was destroyed.
00:54:39.000The FBI and the BETF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City, the World Trade Center bombing, after they've done their handiwork.
00:55:03.000We really appreciate you coming down to share the information, the knowledge of your run-in with the New World Order and what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco, Texas.
00:55:15.000I appreciate you having everybody out here.
00:55:17.000What do you think about An attorney general coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state.
00:55:26.000Well, Ramsey Clark has been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case, and he has spoken just about every year for the last three years.
00:55:36.000The fact that an attorney general has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and his principles.
00:55:50.000I'd kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things, but that may be down the road.
00:55:57.000Well, so he was speaking out against the trilateralist control system, whereas she is the trilateralist control system.
00:56:02.000Well, I'm saying, I'm looking, hoping for a change, but whether we'll see it.
00:56:05.000You know, a lot's changed since the 60s.
00:56:59.000They had to acknowledge that somebody else was calling the shots, either from Washington or their commanders or whatever, and of course the mod squad out here in the tanks, they were doing all the damage anyway.
00:58:07.000The guy that wrote the script for that who did come and apologize.
00:58:11.000So I think, you know, there's hope for the worst kind of people.
00:58:17.000These people should be ashamed of what they're doing.
00:58:19.000Let me just ask you a question that's kind of, it's not off the subject, but what do you think about us buying all these goods from China made by political dissidents, 30 million at any one time, with a 25% attrition rate that's millions dead a year in these camps and the Chinese moving into Long Beach?
00:58:34.000Isn't this going to come back on all Americans?
00:58:39.000Well, as far as buying goods that are made by cheap labor, whether it's from China or anywhere else, I think we've forced a lot of the businesses to go overseas for cheap labor because of the slave labor we have in our prison system.
00:58:52.000You know, you get people working for 10 cents an hour, how can the average businessman out there compete when he's at least got to pay the minimum wage?
00:58:59.000I'm sure you know that you've never been in trouble with the law in your life, had you, until this happened.
00:59:47.000It's hard enough to talk about it, let alone watch it over and over.
00:59:50.000But even myself, I've got footage from various CNN and C-SPAN and all those different clips.
01:00:00.000And I've been going through some of the stuff I've had just to try to find some things that I remember seeing and I want to use, you know, and just to sit there and live through it over and over again.
01:00:44.000There have been some documentaries, front documentaries by the establishment here in America, like PBS, that supposedly is giving us good information, where they continually refer to this as a cult and a compound.
01:01:58.000I thought you meant inside, running around inside.
01:02:01.000Well, that's some information that's now coming out in this next documentary that's being put out by the same people that put out Waco Rules of Engagement.
01:02:08.000And I've talked to some of the lawyers, Mr. Brennan and others, that it's pretty much documented.
01:02:12.000I know you were trying to get out for your life and get other people to safety.
01:02:15.000We're being told now that some special forces teams, perhaps from Britain, were sent in with breathing apparatus.
01:02:22.000I'm not aware of that, but then we were isolated.
01:02:25.000Those of us that were in the chapel were pretty much cut off from people down the other end because of all the damage they'd done to the building.
01:02:32.000You and others have talked about how the water tanks had holes in the top, and the only way the water tanks could have holes in the top was from the helicopters.
01:02:49.000Marjorie Thomas, who's from England, who was badly burned.
01:02:52.000She said that her testimony, which she did a video deposition for the trial, but I don't think it ever played in its entirety.
01:02:59.000But in that deposition, she said that some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end in the tower, and they were acting sort of agitated.
01:03:12.000She walked over to look and see what they were looking at, and she looked out the window, and she jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass.
01:04:02.000Even though you have photographs in here of them.
01:04:04.000What would you say to the public out there?
01:04:05.000I don't know where they get the idea they don't exist.
01:04:08.000I guess it's the same place they say that they never fly with the doors open, when you can see the footage you see right through them, you know?
01:05:17.000We've tried to stir up response from the British government by writing to people and asking them to go direct and ask questions and put it to them how come they didn't do anything about their own citizens.
01:05:29.000And they got a pretty nasty attitude in England, apparently.
01:05:32.000They just wiped them all off and said, well, they were all from elsewhere, you know, from Jamaica or Nigeria or whatever, and just wrote them off.
01:05:39.000Well, Mr. Brennan, the lawyer for some of the murdered children, that's why he was saying that it now looks like with some documents they've uncovered.
01:05:47.000He said this down at the last conference that y'all came down to Austin, that that's why they use some British intelligence, because it's well known in the intelligence community, if you're going to do an operation involving people from another country that we're allied with, you'll allow that country to do your work for you.
01:06:01.000I don't know anything about that at this point.
01:06:03.000I just was completely shocked by the fact that, I mean, confirm this or deny it, that seemingly the British government has had...
01:06:12.000Basically, no interest at all in investigating what happened here.
01:06:15.000The Israeli government and the New Zealand government and the Canadian government are the same, but of all of them, England lost the most citizens.
01:06:23.000That's what I was struck by, and I can't imagine that if British citizens were in South Africa or some of these other outposts...
01:06:32.000In the world that if as many people, as many British citizens were killed, theirs were killed here, I can't imagine that they would sit on their hands and seemingly do nothing.
01:06:39.000You'd almost think they'd have a war over it, wouldn't you?
01:06:44.000I haven't got a satisfactory answer from anybody on that myself.
01:06:47.000Perhaps the U.S.-Britain power axis in banking is just really one beast.
01:06:52.000It's just like when I called British Embassy.
01:06:57.000And British consuls and stuff here in this country in regards to the situation with Livingston being beaten up by 300-pound guards and fire hoses put on him.
01:07:47.000They probably figured they'd get away with it.
01:07:49.000But they were doing it to other prisoners, and so...
01:07:54.000They've pulled all those prisoners out, from what I understand, to protect them until they can testify at this grand jury against these guards.
01:08:25.000They fixed cars, they were postmen, and yes, they sold firearms to law-abiding citizens.
01:08:32.000And for doing this, they were murdered in cold blood for a publicity stunt for Bill Clinton.
01:08:38.000And then the government, and again, from ex-FBI chiefs to General Parton, ex-Sative Air Force Weapons Development, to Ted Gunderson, FBI chief, Oklahoma City was done by black ops, secret government squads.
01:08:51.000On April 19th in 1995, Two years later, because Clinton's approval rating was plunging, and they needed to overshadow this terrible memory with the memory of the government dying.
01:09:48.000Why isn't the government coming in prison to me?
01:09:50.000Because they don't want an investigation.
01:09:52.000They don't want me to bring out in some type of trial all the information.
01:09:55.000Our government is blowing up buildings and murdering churches.
01:10:01.000We're here with Jack DuVault and he wrote Waco Whitewash.
01:10:06.000Sir, you've been talking about this ever since it happened and Do you feel that people know more and more now in America exactly what really happened here, or do you think that there's a lot of work still to be done?
01:10:22.000There's a tremendous amount of work to be done.
01:10:25.000Most people are slowly forgetting what has happened here, and the word is not getting out.
01:10:34.000Materials available on the internet, my book for example.
01:10:39.000In my book, I followed the trial very closely, and in that book I showed About eight examples of indictable offenses by federal officers and agents, and nothing has ever been done about it.
01:10:52.000And talk about the unprofessional behavior, mooning and showing their genitalia to the women and children, playing the sounds of dying rabbits, firing in from the first day and on the last day with helicopters and sniper-mounted positions.
01:11:03.000And lying about it continuously, lying and lying and lying.
01:11:07.000But the real crime is the mainstream controlled media, isn't it?
01:12:03.000We just had a thumb scanning protest where I was arrested, the biometrics, and yes, I believe they're going to create a crash and make you thumb scan or retina scan to buy and sell.
01:12:12.000Well, I believe that the entire culture is going to have a severe culture shock because I think that we're going into an economic...
01:12:53.000Involved in the operation rescue business, saving babies' lives, unborn babies' lives.
01:12:58.000And so I felt that here were some born babies' lives that needed to be saved, and I was convinced that they were going to die during the siege.
01:13:09.000I was convinced that they weren't going to let them out.
01:13:45.000Five miles away here, and there were FBI agents, ATF agents, state troopers, sheriff's department, all out forcing us not to step across the line.
01:14:01.000Well, more or less, we all had armbands on.
01:14:06.000I had had armbands made that said, Unarmed Patriot, so that when we got shot, the press was out there, if we got shot, we would at least be identified.
01:14:17.000We didn't even have the courage, though, to step into the face of those AK armed men that were guarding every road, every approach.
01:14:25.000We came around to the backside over here.
01:14:29.000We tried to come across the field there, and they had helicopters circling us all the time.
01:14:34.000Now, Jack, sir, I know you're in the military, and I know you're an author and everything, but come now.
01:16:30.000The people were murdered right here on the spot when men, women, and children burnt inside this structure.
01:16:38.000And this was all, again, part of state-sponsored terrorism to push the envelope, to test and to see what they could get away with.
01:16:48.000Now I'm standing on the spot where David Koresh opened the door, raised his hands and said, as they charged him, with a dynamic entry, he said, hey, let's talk.
01:17:34.000If this was some murderous cult, as the TV shows told us, then what did they have to hide?
01:17:40.000Why do they always destroy the remains?
01:17:43.000This building was burnt to the ground, but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap, in a monument to the wreckage of the police state.
01:17:57.000Right up there on the podium, here at the five-year remembrance of the slaughter here, is Ramsey Clark, ex-Attorney General of the United States of America.
01:18:07.000And he is there telling you that we are under federal control.
01:18:11.000The military is training with local law enforcement.
01:20:02.000And they are the big gun and the long arm of the IRS and the criminal system that is running this nation.
01:20:09.000Make no mistake, the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only.
01:20:15.000It was about terrorism against the American people.
01:20:18.000It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground.
01:20:26.000Waco Rules of Engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building.
01:20:33.000That's where most of the bodies were found, right in the edge.
01:20:36.000Hit squads, military black ops, the same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933. I mean, where is our country when Ex-Attorney Generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same people.
01:20:59.000I mean, it just makes my heart swell with pride that we do have people like Ramsey Clark and others and this whole crowd out here that is standing in defiance of tyranny.
01:21:09.000And I'll take a line from that movie Braveheart.
01:21:15.000What would you give dying in your bed all these years from now to have just once stood up in defiance of tyranny to put on the armor and to ride out on the field against the enemy?
01:22:10.000That they sent in death squads with breathing apparatus to kill those people inside because they couldn't have any witnesses of what really happened on the first day of the 51-day standoff.
01:22:21.000So we're dealing with murder, we're dealing with terrorism against the American people, and this is nothing new in the history of the world.
01:22:30.000Authoritarian regimes always seek to control the modes of finance, the printing of money, transportation.
01:22:38.000Food production, you name it, it's all coming under federal control under the guise of environmentalism, which is nothing but a cult now.
01:24:49.000What happened right here where I'm standing in Waco?
01:24:54.000Back in 1993, on April 19th, with state-sponsored terrorism, it was a test to see if you'd lay down.
01:25:00.000And I'm telling you something, they're taken back now because their propaganda and their lies worked for a while, but you see that the polls are changing.
01:25:07.000More and more people are waking up to what's happening.
01:25:10.000So I want to challenge you to talk to ten people a week, get them to see Waco Rules of Engagement.
01:25:15.000I have nothing to do with this documentary, but it's so incredibly powerful.
01:25:19.000You have got to get this and get it into congressmen's hands, your friends' hands, judges in your local cities, because this can be a revelation to the people of America, to the people that just want to be pragmatic.
01:25:34.000To the people that are just relativists and don't care as long as charity doesn't come knocking on their door.
01:26:05.000I have to tell you, three years ago, four years ago, I thought what happened at Waco was wrong.
01:26:09.000But I thought, I mean, I believed a little bit of the propaganda.
01:26:12.000I thought, well, you know, this and that.
01:26:14.000And the more I studied this, the more I found out it's worse than even what Waco Rules of Engagement or Day 51 Had to offer and that's why I'm glad that they're coming out with a new documentary because this is what it's going to take.
01:26:27.000It's going to take information to the public.
01:27:01.000He was attorney general during LBJ's administration, and he said some very stunning information that a lot of us in the freedom movement know about, but a lot of people out there in the mainstream because of the press don't know about.
01:27:14.000He was talking about the growing police state.
01:27:16.000Sir, would you like to make some comments on that?
01:27:18.000Well, our government has become the greatest purveyor of violence on Earth, as Dr. King said it was in 1967. But today it's gone beyond all reasonable bounds.
01:27:31.000$265 billion in military expenditures, which is probably half of all the military expenditures in the world.
01:27:37.000It exceeds the next biggest government by five-fold.
01:27:40.000It exceeds the entire military expenditures of the National Security Council.
01:27:45.000And it includes things like the Trident II nuclear submarine, which could wipe out millions and millions of people with a single launch.
01:27:52.000It trains people like the School for the Americas to go into Chiapas, Mexico, and kill Mayan Indians who were starving to death with our NAFTA thing that's driven their corn off the market because they can't compete with us and can't sell their surplus corn to make a little money to buy some water purifiers so their kids don't get sick and die from polluted.
01:28:16.000This militarism, you know, we'd never had a standing army before the Civil War.
01:28:23.000Now we've got this huge standing army with more than 200,000 troops permanently stationed overseas, the largest naval armada in the world since World War II and the Persian Gulf on a permanent basis.
01:28:35.000And that's not the land of the free and the home of the brave.
01:28:53.000My first question is, or my first statement about this is, is you're absolutely right.
01:28:57.000I mean, we have military training, people in black ski masks, with the MJTF, Multi-Jurisdictional Task Forces, training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin, Texas, where I'm from, and I found out that this is a nationwide movement.
01:29:11.000And the sad part is, you know, the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat.
01:29:17.000He's the one who gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stops someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that.
01:29:42.000The paramilitary concept of police is a police state, you know.
01:29:47.000And our Constitution was created to prevent a police state.
01:29:51.000Yet our police expenditures, our creation of the fear of crime and the belief that you can solve crime by more prisons, by the death penalty, and by beating people in the head is crazy.
01:30:03.000It's just war with our own society, and you see it come to a head at a peaceful church outside of Waco, Texas, Mount Carmel.
01:30:10.000And just to talk a little bit more about the police state, and I appreciate you doing this interview, Mr. Clark.
01:30:18.000Eisenhower, Kennedy, many others warned us about the military-industrial complex, and now since we've dominated the whole planet, they are now still selling fear, but now they're selling fear of the American people.
01:33:11.000They're organizations through which they implement their power, and it's an international group that maintains power through the multinational corporations and the media and all the rest.
01:34:41.000There's so many people and so much poverty, and there's so much technology that can destroy people that it's being employed against people everywhere.
01:34:48.000The poor here, the poor nations abroad, so we have to work on...
01:34:52.000We're slashing our military budget to the bare bones.
01:35:25.000And as a result, the men, women, and children died.
01:35:28.000Also, one of the tanks drove inside the structure, and this is even admitted to by the FBI, and there was an inside area, an area where they stored food and things that was concrete, and they thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there.
01:35:43.000They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form of chemical weapon.
01:35:47.000Point-blank range into children's faces.
01:35:49.000They don't make gas masks that fit two- and three- and four-year-old children, my friends.
01:39:06.000We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas in point blank range, and then they pushed all the rubble over there.
01:39:15.000So the bunker was somewhere over in this area.
01:39:19.000This is just more of Big Brother, and we just went over there to one of the FBI negotiators, who's now over here soft peddling things.
01:39:25.000And he's not calling for indictments of Reno.
01:39:45.000He sat right there and looked me in the eye and talked about, "I'm assessing you, that FBI assessor, that FBI con man that came out here, that negotiator." And he's sorry about what happened, but tries to put some of the blame on the Davidians.
01:40:06.000I'm here to tell you right now what they did was out of control and wrong.
01:40:09.000And if he's so good at assessing people, then he sure as hell assessed the Davidians wrong.
01:40:15.000And they sure as hell murdered those people.
01:41:15.000I blew up at that FBI negotiator because, you know, I forgot once I got in an argument with him and he played good cop, bad cop, Mr. Sweetie Pants.
01:41:26.000I was sitting there listening for about three minutes while he was talking about the poor children and all this, but Koresh had explosives and live grenades and illegal weapons and 500,000 rounds of ammunition was above them and fell and crushed the children.
01:41:41.000No, they had bullet holes in their heads and the footage shows, Waco rules of engagement, automatic weapons fire.
01:42:35.000It's only how many increments will we allow?
01:42:40.000What will be the level, the decibel level, of this slave state?
01:42:43.000So, again, the reason I got mad at that guy, and I totally forgot during the argument because I was so angry, was I heard him over there talking about live grenades.
01:43:01.000You can go to an Army-Navy store and buy them.
01:43:03.000And all the live grenades that there were was ones that had the FBI.
01:43:07.000The FBI admits that they were firing ferret rounds, explosive incendiary rounds, into a place that they've pumped CS gas into that's highly flammable!
01:43:15.000No wonder the whole place burst into flames.
01:44:01.000It was something that Clive Doyle, one of the Survali Branch Davidians, who was in all 51 days and barely got out alive through the front and crawled out on the ground with burns all over his body.
01:44:11.000All the guns were at a gun show, or 90% of them, And think back to the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter.
01:44:49.000They showed, because all the holes in the door were all incoming rounds from outside into the building, and there's two white steel doors, and the one on the left is the only one that they'll show the public, and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet holes in it, as I'll show you in this picture right and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet Stop asking questions, right winger.
01:45:16.000You can plainly see BATF agents kneeling unprotected, not behind anything, right in front of the front door, and you can see the incoming bullet holes in the white steel doors.
01:45:28.000One of them, the one with the damning evidence, has mysteriously disappeared, and the rest of the rubble has, of course, all been destroyed.