Ali Dawah - March 12, 2020


2 ATHEISTS CORNER A MUSLIM - SPEAKERS CORNER


Episode Stats


Length

42 minutes

Words per minute

217.51791

Word count

9,287

Sentence count

1,305

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about the question, "Is there a God?" and how to prove or not that God exists. Do you believe or do you not believe in God? What is the burden of proof?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 So, can you just stand there?
00:00:09.000 Yeah, let's see, because I'll be in the center.
00:00:13.000 Yeah, so we were saying, so basically, what was your question?
00:00:17.000 What was your question?
00:00:18.000 Can you demonstrate to me that there is a God?
00:00:21.000 Okay, yeah. So when you said demonstrate, you said that, what would you require?
00:00:25.000 What kind of demonstration?
00:00:26.000 You can come close as well.
00:00:28.000 That's the whole point. It's a supernatural claim.
00:00:31.000 So you would have to need a supernatural demonstration.
00:00:35.000 No, but even if the demonstration is supernatural, would you accept it?
00:00:38.000 So for example, when you say prove it to me, the question that needs to be asked is the following.
00:00:42.000 If I said to you, okay, here's a vision of God. There's God. Would you believe it?
00:00:48.000 It depends on the vision. It depends on the proof.
00:00:50.000 So let's suppose out of the sky, an image popped up and it said, I am God.
00:00:56.000 Would you believe it or would you say this is magic?
00:00:58.000 I'm not sure. It depends on the case, but that's not the case.
00:01:00.000 That's not the reality of the moment.
00:01:02.000 So the reality of the moment is that when you make a certain claim, like a God exists, you adopt the burden of proof.
00:01:08.000 And when you adopt the burden of proof, you should be able to demonstrate that burden.
00:01:13.000 So I believe, I believe the burden of proof is on you, not me.
00:01:15.000 Why? Why?
00:01:16.000 Because you're claiming, you're denying that God doesn't exist.
00:01:18.000 No, no. You're claiming.
00:01:19.000 I'm just saying, I'm saying on the question, does a God exist?
00:01:22.000 Yeah.
00:01:23.000 I'm saying, I don't know, but I am not convinced of such when I look at the evidence being provided by religious people. 1.00
00:01:29.000 Okay.
00:01:30.000 So that's the only thing. I'm not convinced.
00:01:32.000 Okay. We can't look. My name's Ali. What's your name?
00:01:33.000 Dragan.
00:01:34.000 Dragan.
00:01:35.000 Dragan.
00:01:36.000 I like it. What's your name?
00:01:37.000 Charles.
00:01:38.000 Charles and Dragan.
00:01:39.000 Yeah.
00:01:40.000 My claim is the following.
00:01:41.000 If an image, because you said, can you demonstrate it?
00:01:44.000 If I was to show you an image in the sky, an image popped up and said, I am God, would you believe it?
00:01:50.000 Or is there a chance that you would say that's illusion? That's magic? Or I'm playing some kind of-
00:01:55.000 That doesn't matter because that is not the case.
00:01:57.000 The case is that you're making the claim and you have no, you have a burden of proof and you haven't shown any demonstration.
00:02:04.000 I can, but he said that if I can see. His condition was if I can see.
00:02:09.000 No, not, I'm talking colloquially see. Can you demonstrate?
00:02:13.000 Okay.
00:02:14.000 Is there a method that you can reach to-
00:02:17.000 Yes, we can, we can. There's a lot of methods. There's a lot of methods.
00:02:19.000 So for the first one, for example, I was talking about the mobile phone. Yeah?
00:02:22.000 Mobile phone.
00:02:23.000 Your mobile phone.
00:02:24.000 Yeah, here.
00:02:25.000 Yes. Okay, you've got a mobile phone, yeah?
00:02:26.000 Yes.
00:02:27.000 How do you know that was designed?
00:02:29.000 But that's not the question.
00:02:31.000 Exactly.
00:02:32.000 That's a demonstration of the phone.
00:02:34.000 No, no, no, no, no.
00:02:35.000 Like I said, there are factories who create the phones.
00:02:38.000 Okay.
00:02:39.000 You could, if you want, learn how to make a phone and create one by yourself.
00:02:42.000 Okay.
00:02:43.000 Could you do the same for the planet?
00:02:44.000 Yes.
00:02:45.000 For the universe? No, right?
00:02:46.000 Okay.
00:02:47.000 Alright, so let me-
00:02:48.000 It's a wrong equation.
00:02:49.000 You can't compare creation of a phone or a house or a car or a building with the creation of a universe.
00:02:56.000 I can.
00:02:57.000 You can?
00:02:58.000 Let me tell you how.
00:02:59.000 No.
00:03:00.000 Like I said, there's a factory-
00:03:01.000 No, I can, I can, I can.
00:03:02.000 Let me tell you how.
00:03:03.000 You've demonstrated to me that there is a phone.
00:03:05.000 Yes.
00:03:06.000 Have you demonstrated to me how it was assembled?
00:03:08.000 We could.
00:03:09.000 Have you?
00:03:10.000 We could.
00:03:11.000 Have you?
00:03:12.000 That's not the question.
00:03:13.000 That's not the question.
00:03:14.000 Okay, one second.
00:03:15.000 Let me ask you a question.
00:03:16.000 Do you believe this phone is designed because you can go to the factory or because you went to the factory?
00:03:19.000 The phone is made, which is a fact.
00:03:21.000 We can, we can check this.
00:03:22.000 Okay, but what you're doing-
00:03:23.000 Have you?
00:03:24.000 Listen, Ali, just a second.
00:03:25.000 What you're doing, you're-
00:03:26.000 How do you say?
00:03:28.000 Tap dancing.
00:03:29.000 You're tap dancing.
00:03:30.000 You're trying to get away from your burden of proof and that is the demonstration of this existence.
00:03:36.000 Okay, okay.
00:03:37.000 So, you still haven't shown any demonstration.
00:03:40.000 You're just coming up with kind of, like he said, tap dances to like avoid, turn around the questions.
00:03:46.000 But that's not-
00:03:47.000 The thing is, what we need to address is the existence of a God.
00:03:51.000 Can you show it?
00:03:52.000 Can you prove it?
00:03:53.000 Can you demonstrate it?
00:03:54.000 If the answer is no, then why believe in it?
00:03:56.000 Why should I believe in it if you cannot demonstrate?
00:03:58.000 Okay.
00:03:59.000 I'll repeat again.
00:04:00.000 I'll repeat again.
00:04:01.000 I can demonstrate it.
00:04:02.000 I have no shadow of a doubt that I can demonstrate, not because of who I am.
00:04:06.000 Fantastic.
00:04:07.000 But you have to go with the flow.
00:04:10.000 Do I?
00:04:11.000 Yeah.
00:04:12.000 Let me tell you why.
00:04:13.000 In order for me to demonstrate it, you have to understand my argument.
00:04:17.000 If I speak two sentences and you stop me, you're not going to understand.
00:04:20.000 I'll repeat it again.
00:04:22.000 Do you believe the phone that he had in his hand, which he demonstrated, is designed based on you going to the factory?
00:04:31.000 Have you gone to the iPhone factory and seen the iPhone get assembled?
00:04:34.000 Sorry, sorry, sorry.
00:04:35.000 This is disingenuous.
00:04:36.000 Yes.
00:04:37.000 I said I can demonstrate something.
00:04:39.000 And now you're going on about design.
00:04:41.000 I never mentioned design.
00:04:42.000 That's my argument.
00:04:43.000 I mentioned demonstration.
00:04:44.000 I'm demonstrating design to come to the previous existence of God.
00:04:47.000 We can demonstrate the phone.
00:04:48.000 We can go to the Apple factory or whatever.
00:04:51.000 You're missing the point.
00:04:52.000 No, I'm not.
00:04:53.000 You're tap dancing.
00:04:54.000 You're missing the point.
00:04:55.000 Okay.
00:04:56.000 Okay.
00:04:57.000 I'm either tap dancing or I'm not dancing at all.
00:05:00.000 This phone.
00:05:01.000 Do you believe this is designed due to...
00:05:04.000 Like I said, we can go to a factory.
00:05:06.000 One second.
00:05:07.000 We can create our own phone.
00:05:08.000 You're going to understand.
00:05:09.000 When I made the point, you're going to understand it very clearly because I think you're not understanding.
00:05:12.000 Do you believe this phone is designed based on the fact that you went to the factory or you believe it's designed because you can go to the factory?
00:05:21.000 Which one?
00:05:22.000 One second.
00:05:23.000 One second.
00:05:24.000 You're asking.
00:05:25.000 Yes.
00:05:26.000 You're answering a question with another question.
00:05:28.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:05:29.000 Okay, wait.
00:05:30.000 Just to answer your question.
00:05:31.000 Did you just say?
00:05:32.000 Just to play along.
00:05:33.000 Just to dance along.
00:05:34.000 Just to dance along, let me answer your question.
00:05:36.000 Okay.
00:05:37.000 So first, one of the things we could do to conclude the phone is created is go to the factory.
00:05:44.000 Another thing, like I said, we could create our own phone.
00:05:46.000 Good.
00:05:47.000 Can you do the same for the universe?
00:05:48.000 Good.
00:05:49.000 Good.
00:05:50.000 Good.
00:05:51.000 Good.
00:05:52.000 Good.
00:05:53.000 Yes or no?
00:05:54.000 Not really.
00:05:55.000 I don't like to dance, yeah?
00:05:56.000 But can you do the same for the universe?
00:05:57.000 I think for men it's haram to dance anyway, yeah?
00:05:58.000 Can we do the same for the universe?
00:05:59.000 Wait, answer my question now.
00:06:00.000 Can we do the same for the universe?
00:06:01.000 One stop.
00:06:02.000 Let me tell you something.
00:06:03.000 Can we do the same for the universe?
00:06:04.000 Can we go to a factory where universes are made and see how a universe is made?
00:06:08.000 Let me tell you something.
00:06:09.000 Can we create the universe?
00:06:10.000 Exactly, no.
00:06:11.020 That's your analogy, yeah?
00:06:11.900 So, it's a wrong comparison.
00:06:14.840 You cannot compare this with the existence of a universe.
00:06:18.900 Thank you.
00:06:19.620 He answered you.
00:06:20.640 I didn't.
00:06:22.080 He said no.
00:06:22.820 I didn't say nothing.
00:06:23.340 So, what's your answer?
00:06:24.080 So, let's stick to here.
00:06:25.540 The moment you understand this, the pin is going to drop.
00:06:27.960 And then you're going to say, okay, we get it.
00:06:29.660 Now, I'm going to repeat it again.
00:06:31.200 Okay.
00:06:32.720 I believe, just to make it easier, this phone is designed and I haven't gone to the factory.
00:06:38.780 And the reason I believe this is designed is not because I can go to the factory.
00:06:43.840 Please understand.
00:06:44.600 I'll repeat it again.
00:06:45.240 So, everything that you're wearing now, your gloves to your jacket to your shoes to the
00:06:51.520 phone to your laces, you did not go to the factory and see them get made, but you believe
00:06:58.820 they're designed, right or wrong?
00:07:00.480 No.
00:07:01.020 No.
00:07:01.460 No.
00:07:01.760 Listen, we can go to the factory and we can make them ourselves.
00:07:07.740 One second, one second.
00:07:08.580 Look, the question is this.
00:07:10.240 One second.
00:07:10.920 Has anybody here gone to the iPhone factory to see iPhone get made?
00:07:14.200 No.
00:07:14.560 Okay.
00:07:14.940 What if I work at an iPhone factory?
00:07:16.120 No, no, no.
00:07:16.640 What then?
00:07:17.180 You're missing the point here.
00:07:18.680 No.
00:07:19.080 I'm not.
00:07:20.060 No, no, no, no.
00:07:20.900 You're missing the point.
00:07:21.760 You're missing the point.
00:07:22.300 I said, initially, the initial question was, I can demonstrate a phone.
00:07:28.160 Can you demonstrate your God?
00:07:30.080 Okay.
00:07:30.780 That's the question.
00:07:31.460 I promise you, if you guys just listen to understand and not listen to reply.
00:07:36.560 But I'm listening and I'm understanding.
00:07:37.400 No, no, no, no.
00:07:38.000 You guys are listening to reply.
00:07:38.720 I never mentioned design.
00:07:41.040 I just said a demonstration.
00:07:42.440 Okay.
00:07:42.940 I'm saying, when you say demonstration, I'm not going to come and say, hey, look, there's
00:07:46.640 God.
00:07:47.500 Wow.
00:07:48.120 Hey, look, there's a phone.
00:07:49.740 Because it does.
00:07:50.760 This is the point.
00:07:51.940 I'll repeat again.
00:07:52.820 Please listen to understand.
00:07:55.480 Don't listen to reply, please.
00:07:57.280 I'm going to repeat it again.
00:07:59.320 I, Ali, believe that the clothes that I wear, indeed, official, check it out.
00:08:04.900 The trainers that I have, the iPhone that I have, to the microphone that I'm holding,
00:08:09.260 to the watch that I have in my hand.
00:08:11.100 I did not go to the factory to see the watch made, the clothes made, the phone made, the
00:08:15.300 trainers made.
00:08:16.100 Okay.
00:08:16.600 Now, I still believe my clothes were designed.
00:08:20.580 I did not see it.
00:08:21.900 I know my watch was designed.
00:08:23.620 I did not see it.
00:08:24.720 Can you verify it?
00:08:25.500 The point is this.
00:08:26.940 I already believe it without verifying it.
00:08:29.100 But could you verify it?
00:08:30.260 Yes, but have I?
00:08:31.960 But could you?
00:08:32.780 But have I?
00:08:33.800 Have other people?
00:08:34.760 No.
00:08:35.560 How do you know?
00:08:36.080 No, no, no.
00:08:36.440 Some, okay.
00:08:36.980 Some may.
00:08:37.560 If I work at a clothing factory.
00:08:38.240 But my point is this.
00:08:40.400 You believe that your phone is made and you haven't gone to the factory.
00:08:44.200 Why?
00:08:44.700 But you could.
00:08:45.900 Okay.
00:08:46.660 One second.
00:08:47.280 Have you gone to the factory?
00:08:48.640 Yes.
00:08:49.320 No, of course not.
00:08:50.020 Come on, man.
00:08:50.200 Okay, thank you.
00:08:51.000 Come on, man.
00:08:51.580 Thank you.
00:08:51.920 Then why?
00:08:52.580 No, no, no.
00:08:52.880 One second.
00:08:53.140 Why do you believe it's designed?
00:08:54.780 Because why?
00:08:55.500 Because we have lots of examples.
00:08:58.080 Thank you.
00:08:58.860 Thank you.
00:08:59.900 That is good.
00:09:01.180 Good, good.
00:09:01.820 Do you have lots of examples of God?
00:09:04.120 Let me tell you something.
00:09:04.980 The reason you believe that iPhone is designed without you going to the factory is because
00:09:08.780 you say, look, there's design.
00:09:10.900 No.
00:09:11.280 No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:09:12.200 So there's no design?
00:09:12.920 No, no.
00:09:13.420 There is.
00:09:14.320 There is.
00:09:14.820 Because we have millions of examples of phones being made.
00:09:18.880 No, no, no, no.
00:09:19.880 What about a documentary about a factory which makes iPhones?
00:09:25.180 Good.
00:09:25.380 What about seeing a documentary about a factory that makes phones?
00:09:29.060 That's proof.
00:09:29.960 You're right.
00:09:30.740 That's proof.
00:09:31.000 You're right.
00:09:31.420 But you're missing a fundamental point, which I said, which is the following.
00:09:35.400 I'm saying, I know you believe.
00:09:37.660 Imagine you never saw a factory.
00:09:40.140 You will still believe the iPhone is?
00:09:42.040 Why?
00:09:42.140 No, probably not.
00:09:43.380 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:09:44.680 Let me explain.
00:09:44.980 Don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh.
00:09:45.980 Don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh.
00:09:46.000 Don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh.
00:09:46.100 Let me explain.
00:09:47.000 Let me explain.
00:09:47.020 Okay, you walk in.
00:09:48.060 Wait, let me explain.
00:09:48.900 I believe these things are made.
00:09:50.880 Why?
00:09:51.140 Because we can verify it.
00:09:52.900 Because we can, because we can check the, check the, the, the, the, the.
00:09:58.040 Dragon, are you telling me that you're going to be walking down the road and you see a bottle
00:10:03.400 and you've never seen a bottle in your life?
00:10:06.260 Who has never seen a bottle in his life?
00:10:07.940 I'm giving a scenario.
00:10:08.980 It's a bad example.
00:10:10.200 Well, sorry, I have to give it.
00:10:11.560 I have to give extreme scenarios to extreme claims.
00:10:14.080 Listen, just go on about the phone.
00:10:15.360 Okay, phone.
00:10:16.080 You're walking down the road.
00:10:17.240 You've never seen an iPhone.
00:10:18.540 Yes.
00:10:18.920 And you see it shining and you pick it up and go, what is this?
00:10:22.300 Whoa, did you just see what happened there?
00:10:24.320 Yeah.
00:10:24.940 Yeah.
00:10:25.500 Whoa.
00:10:26.300 Yeah.
00:10:26.920 Would you say, well, what is this, bro?
00:10:29.400 This just came by chance or would you say it's designed?
00:10:31.960 I would ask the question, hmm, what is this?
00:10:34.440 Okay.
00:10:35.040 Where does this come from?
00:10:36.240 Good.
00:10:36.440 Can anyone explain this to me?
00:10:38.360 Okay, would you ever think that it came by chance?
00:10:41.400 Of course not.
00:10:42.240 How can you?
00:10:42.760 That is my point.
00:10:44.160 Did you understand?
00:10:45.260 No, but see, the point you're missing, the point you're missing, I can go, look up.
00:10:50.660 Wait, wait, wait.
00:10:51.840 I can go, look up the factory.
00:10:53.620 I can go, look.
00:10:55.280 You'll never come across it.
00:10:56.180 You don't know what it is.
00:10:56.840 It doesn't matter.
00:10:57.460 It can be close.
00:10:58.480 It can be anything.
00:10:59.300 No, no, no.
00:10:59.680 Imagine you never came across it.
00:11:01.200 No, no, no.
00:11:01.460 You never came across it.
00:11:02.360 That's a hypothetical, yeah?
00:11:04.940 No, no, hypothetically.
00:11:06.220 No, no, hypothetically.
00:11:07.100 Like I said, I would ask questions.
00:11:09.000 No, no, you would ask questions.
00:11:10.040 No, I would ask questions.
00:11:10.900 The questions you would ask is based on the answers of the questions would determine if
00:11:14.460 I would believe certain things about it.
00:11:15.980 Look, look, look.
00:11:16.000 Draken, you're in the desert.
00:11:17.320 There's no one to ask questions to.
00:11:18.760 Now we're in the desert all of a sudden.
00:11:20.300 Yes, you were always in the desert.
00:11:21.600 I never put you anywhere else.
00:11:22.780 Let's go hypothetical.
00:11:24.300 Thank you, thank you.
00:11:24.920 Yeah?
00:11:25.520 Hypothetically, you're walking and you see this device.
00:11:28.180 Yes.
00:11:28.700 The first question you ask yourself, because there's nobody to ask is, what is this?
00:11:33.760 Yes.
00:11:34.300 How did it get here?
00:11:35.280 Uh-huh.
00:11:36.780 It looks designed.
00:11:38.060 What is it?
00:11:38.900 Yes.
00:11:40.220 What that shows me is the following.
00:11:42.240 You saw an object that you have no idea about.
00:11:45.620 Uh-huh.
00:11:45.820 You've never been to the factory.
00:11:47.160 Yes.
00:11:47.300 You don't know what on earth it is.
00:11:48.680 Yes.
00:11:48.960 But the first conclusion you come to is that this came from somewhere.
00:11:53.360 Oh, wait.
00:11:53.740 The factory does exist still.
00:11:55.100 No, no, no.
00:11:55.660 You don't know.
00:11:56.480 The factory doesn't exist.
00:11:57.540 No, no, no.
00:11:58.120 You don't know.
00:11:58.820 There is no factory.
00:11:59.480 But could you find out?
00:12:00.740 No, no, no.
00:12:01.160 But you're right now.
00:12:01.980 You're in the desert.
00:12:02.600 Right now.
00:12:02.960 Could I, like, leave the desert and try to find?
00:12:05.380 Okay, okay.
00:12:05.560 Okay, good.
00:12:05.980 Good, good.
00:12:06.300 That's a good point for me.
00:12:07.080 Is that possible?
00:12:07.800 That's possible.
00:12:08.520 So does the factory exist?
00:12:09.700 Good.
00:12:10.100 Or is this a universe, a world?
00:12:11.720 Well, no factory exists.
00:12:12.640 Good, good.
00:12:12.940 Or just the phone dropped out of the sky?
00:12:14.540 Good, good, good.
00:12:15.220 So what you've done for me is now you've made my case for me.
00:12:18.060 Oh, really?
00:12:18.280 Because let me tell you how.
00:12:19.340 Number one, you have affirmed that we believe in things without going to the factory.
00:12:23.620 No.
00:12:24.400 No, wait, wait.
00:12:25.660 But the thing is...
00:12:26.860 So you only believe...
00:12:28.160 No, you have to understand one thing.
00:12:29.340 You were missing a point.
00:12:30.140 Okay, have you seen how your glasses were made?
00:12:32.080 Wait, you have to understand one thing.
00:12:33.460 The moment we can verify it by actually going to a factory, by actually reproducing such
00:12:44.260 things as clothes, as phones, as whatever, being able to do that, we can determine, yes,
00:12:49.780 this is made, but we cannot do the same for the universe and for God.
00:12:54.100 You're right.
00:12:54.300 That's the point.
00:12:54.920 No, no, you're right.
00:12:55.380 But what we understood, which we agreed on, is this, that we've agreed that the factory
00:13:02.380 is irrelevant to the equation because, let me tell you why, because I know very well
00:13:07.620 and you know very well, your glasses or there's something, even if you never saw factories
00:13:11.620 in your life, and you was walking and you saw these gates, and you've never ever seen a
00:13:17.460 factory, you will say the gates have a pattern.
00:13:20.580 Design.
00:13:21.680 Design.
00:13:22.500 It's irrelevant to the factory.
00:13:24.060 You're not going to say, hold on a second, I, no, no, one second, one second, one second,
00:13:27.620 one second, you're not going to say this, you're not going to say this, hold on a second.
00:13:30.520 Just because there's a pattern, it's not, there's a God that didn't.
00:13:34.860 No, it shows order, of course, yes, it does.
00:13:36.780 You've got a pattern, it came by chance.
00:13:38.400 You've been assuming that a designer did it.
00:13:41.560 But hear me out, brothers, brothers, please don't interject, yeah?
00:13:43.420 When you see the gates, you're not going to say, ah, I believe this came from nothing until
00:13:47.320 I see a factory.
00:13:48.120 Your brain's not going to do that.
00:13:49.060 Your brain's going to say, thank you, that's my point.
00:13:51.900 No, but that's not the point, no, but that's the wrong point. 1.00
00:13:53.520 You're making a horrible, horrible, horrible...
00:13:56.300 We're going to let the people decide. 0.99
00:13:57.520 It's horrible.
00:13:57.940 No, no, no, no, I'm not going to let any people decide.
00:14:00.280 Okay, all right, nobody's going to decide.
00:14:02.080 You're not making any case.
00:14:02.460 I'm going to say, now, now, now, I'm going to take it...
00:14:05.520 You're making a very flawed case.
00:14:07.320 No, no, no, no, now...
00:14:08.100 Filled with flaws.
00:14:08.780 Because...
00:14:09.520 Wait, you've made my case for me.
00:14:10.860 No, you've just made it.
00:14:12.100 No.
00:14:12.380 No, you make the opposite case, actually.
00:14:16.480 Because you acknowledge you cannot verify the existence of the universe.
00:14:22.140 We can't...
00:14:22.480 There is no universe factory.
00:14:24.500 Yes, there is.
00:14:24.900 We can...
00:14:25.300 Oh, yeah?
00:14:25.800 Can you...
00:14:26.160 So can you make a factory?
00:14:27.300 Wait, wait.
00:14:27.860 We can reproduce a phone.
00:14:29.200 We could.
00:14:29.640 If we were like, put our minds together.
00:14:31.200 But could we do the same for the universe?
00:14:33.120 But this is where I'm coming to.
00:14:34.160 Could we do the same for the universe?
00:14:35.060 Yes, we can.
00:14:35.600 Because you said...
00:14:36.160 Really?
00:14:36.520 You said...
00:14:37.100 Can we create the universe?
00:14:37.800 Let's start, you know?
00:14:39.140 What are we waiting for?
00:14:39.980 No, no, no.
00:14:40.600 Let's make this universe.
00:14:41.420 You don't need to.
00:14:42.360 You go to the one who's created you.
00:14:44.340 So what we do is this.
00:14:45.700 Now what we...
00:14:46.320 What did you say to me?
00:14:47.160 What bus do you get?
00:14:47.740 What did you say to me, yeah?
00:14:48.620 You don't get a bus.
00:14:49.560 Yeah?
00:14:49.840 When you die, you find out.
00:14:50.940 Oh, really? 0.53
00:14:51.560 Okay.
00:14:51.980 Direct, direct, direct line.
00:14:53.600 Okay.
00:14:54.020 Yeah.
00:14:54.300 What I'm saying is a funny thing. 0.99
00:14:55.020 But kill everyone and find out right away. 0.98
00:14:57.440 What's the point of living then? 0.99
00:14:58.680 No, no, no.
00:14:59.220 Okay.
00:14:59.560 So now that we've established that...
00:15:01.620 We haven't established anything.
00:15:03.720 We'll let the people decide.
00:15:04.460 That you're...
00:15:05.240 Why are we going to let the people decide?
00:15:06.920 Because I think...
00:15:07.880 Okay, okay.
00:15:08.500 Just for the argument's sake.
00:15:09.520 For me?
00:15:10.100 Okay.
00:15:10.540 No.
00:15:10.860 We have established which you guys haven't...
00:15:13.320 Your reasoning is flawed.
00:15:14.120 You haven't...
00:15:14.680 You haven't...
00:15:15.240 We have established that your reasoning is flawed.
00:15:16.140 Okay.
00:15:16.520 Okay.
00:15:17.080 I'll repeat again.
00:15:17.780 Your reasoning is flawed.
00:15:18.420 Okay.
00:15:18.740 No problem.
00:15:19.160 Like I said before.
00:15:19.940 No, it's fine.
00:15:20.700 It's okay.
00:15:21.000 It's okay.
00:15:21.320 I don't hate you.
00:15:22.140 I like you still.
00:15:22.860 But I'm just thinking you wrong.
00:15:23.960 I'm sorry.
00:15:24.380 I respect that.
00:15:25.200 That's not a problem.
00:15:25.840 Of course.
00:15:26.080 But nobody can deny because people are listening.
00:15:29.700 You very simply acknowledged that you believe the phone is designed not because you can go
00:15:35.520 to the factory or see it.
00:15:36.460 Wrong comparison.
00:15:37.440 No, I did.
00:15:38.220 I did.
00:15:38.740 Okay.
00:15:38.980 No, I said we can go to the factory.
00:15:40.620 So...
00:15:40.940 And we can...
00:15:41.840 Wait.
00:15:42.240 So if there was no factories, you would deny the iPhone is made?
00:15:45.600 No, no, no.
00:15:46.380 Because if there were no factories, there were no iPhones, probably.
00:15:49.640 My friend, my friend.
00:15:50.300 Wait.
00:15:50.560 You forgot one thing.
00:15:51.520 Would you deny?
00:15:52.200 I also said we can recreate a phone or a chair or clothes.
00:15:57.420 We cannot do the same for a universe.
00:16:00.040 I never claimed...
00:16:00.500 So it's a wrong comparison.
00:16:02.960 I never claimed you can do that with the universe because I never claimed man-made universe.
00:16:06.340 Then why make the comparison with the phone?
00:16:07.900 Because you're missing the point.
00:16:09.400 No, I'm not.
00:16:09.860 I never said man...
00:16:11.780 Have I ever claimed that man-made the universe?
00:16:14.360 No.
00:16:15.160 So you're comparing the universe with a phone.
00:16:18.340 It's because you can't make the universe.
00:16:20.080 You're comparing the creation of a phone with the creation of a universe.
00:16:24.020 I have a point for that.
00:16:25.800 Okay, I never said that humans...
00:16:27.840 But he's making a comparison.
00:16:29.460 Brother, please allow me.
00:16:30.540 Please allow me.
00:16:31.300 I'm making a comparison because it equates that.
00:16:35.000 Yeah.
00:16:35.380 No, he doesn't.
00:16:36.280 My friend, let me ask you a simple question and please just answer the following.
00:16:39.380 Go on.
00:16:39.660 If, if, if, if, if no factories in the entire world and you come across a phone...
00:16:48.900 Yeah.
00:16:50.640 Would you...
00:16:51.480 Please listen carefully.
00:16:52.360 Yeah.
00:16:52.660 Would you say this phone has come from nothing?
00:16:56.040 This phone came by chance until I see how it was made or would you say no, this phone must have a course?
00:17:02.200 Do I know what a phone is?
00:17:03.980 No, you don't.
00:17:04.620 So, I...
00:17:05.240 You saw it.
00:17:05.860 Yeah, yeah, you saw it.
00:17:06.660 I read it and I go, what is this?
00:17:08.260 Yes, yes.
00:17:09.080 What do you do?
00:17:09.760 What's your conclusion?
00:17:10.720 What is this?
00:17:11.240 Okay, what's your conclusion?
00:17:12.200 It came from nothing?
00:17:12.800 I don't know what it is.
00:17:15.000 No, no, no.
00:17:15.320 Okay.
00:17:15.440 You don't need to know what it is.
00:17:17.620 But what would your conclusion be?
00:17:18.360 No, I need to know.
00:17:19.440 No conclusion.
00:17:20.120 You keep investigating.
00:17:21.200 I say, what is this?
00:17:22.500 I don't know what this is.
00:17:24.020 Okay, we're going to say, I don't know what this is.
00:17:26.480 Yeah.
00:17:26.640 But are we going to say this came from nothing?
00:17:29.780 Or are we going to say this came from somewhere which I don't know what it is?
00:17:32.480 What is nothing?
00:17:33.300 Keep investigating.
00:17:34.660 That's the thing.
00:17:35.200 The absence of something.
00:17:36.900 So, you know what?
00:17:37.540 I'm in a desert and I come across something.
00:17:39.380 Yes.
00:17:39.760 I'm not going to say this came from nothing.
00:17:41.800 I'm going to say what is this?
00:17:43.380 Okay, good.
00:17:43.960 But before what it is, would we logically say this came from somewhere?
00:17:50.620 Can we say that?
00:17:52.080 Logically, yeah.
00:17:52.800 Thank you.
00:17:53.220 Maybe.
00:17:53.720 That's it.
00:17:54.620 Don't wait.
00:17:55.280 Logically.
00:17:55.880 Don't wait.
00:17:56.280 Thank you.
00:17:56.520 That's all I wanted.
00:17:58.040 So, we're going to agree.
00:17:59.160 We don't know what it is, but it came from somewhere.
00:18:03.720 So, how is this the same as the universe?
00:18:05.440 That's all I'm saying.
00:18:06.060 Okay, so how is this?
00:18:07.020 Now, now.
00:18:07.680 Good, good.
00:18:07.900 So, how is this the same as the universe?
00:18:09.300 Let me explain now.
00:18:10.500 So, now we have concluded that if we see an object, an identified object, a UFO, you name
00:18:16.080 it, we don't know what it is.
00:18:18.020 We don't know where the hell it came from, but there is somewhere it came from, logically.
00:18:22.420 Yeah.
00:18:22.820 Good.
00:18:23.080 Now, this thing that we call a phone, is the phone more complex or the universe?
00:18:29.420 I'm sorry, say again.
00:18:30.760 Is it what?
00:18:31.380 Is the phone more complex or the universe?
00:18:33.680 Everything is complex.
00:18:35.240 Is the phone more complex or the universe?
00:18:37.900 What's more?
00:18:38.580 What's more complex?
00:18:39.120 The universe is more complex.
00:18:41.720 Thank you.
00:18:42.480 So, therefore, I have to deduce the following.
00:18:45.200 If my phone has somewhere it came from, and because it's designed, if the universe is
00:18:51.560 more designed, it has more rights to say that there was a factory or a creator that made
00:18:55.720 this.
00:18:55.880 See, that's the logical fallacy.
00:18:57.160 And please tell me where's the logical fallacy.
00:18:58.760 You're saying, I don't know, therefore God.
00:19:01.180 That's the God of the gaps.
00:19:02.840 You're using the science of the gaps.
00:19:04.240 Yeah?
00:19:04.620 That's what you're saying.
00:19:05.420 I never said that.
00:19:06.000 Just the way he said, if he saw a thing on the universe, in the desert, he would say
00:19:16.840 it came from somewhere.
00:19:18.300 It doesn't mean the gap of the desert.
00:19:20.700 No.
00:19:21.100 But see, you're jumping to the wrong conclusion.
00:19:24.140 Because the only reason we would conclude that the phone was made by someone is, again,
00:19:31.200 because we can go to the factory.
00:19:32.420 No, no, no, no, no.
00:19:33.020 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:19:33.860 No, no, no, no.
00:19:34.220 And we can, we're in the desert, we're never talking about factories, we're never talking
00:19:37.560 about phones.
00:19:38.140 We can reproduce the phone.
00:19:39.700 No, we're not talking about phones.
00:19:41.020 We're talking about going through the desert.
00:19:42.620 Hypothetically, he's saying we're in the desert and we don't know anything.
00:19:45.520 You don't know anything.
00:19:46.040 It doesn't make sense.
00:19:46.580 Change everything.
00:19:47.200 No, no, no, no, no.
00:19:47.880 One second.
00:19:48.400 One second.
00:19:49.040 One second.
00:19:49.560 He's made a point and I admire him for his honesty.
00:19:54.140 Yeah?
00:19:54.660 No, there has to be a factory.
00:19:56.460 No, no, no, no.
00:19:57.480 Thank you.
00:19:58.040 Thank you.
00:19:58.400 Look, look, look, look how you see it.
00:19:59.900 There has to be a factory.
00:20:00.500 Go to the factory.
00:20:01.380 Drag it, drag it, drag it. 0.62
00:20:02.140 If the phone is like that, what about the universe?
00:20:04.660 Okay, what's it?
00:20:05.420 So where's the universe factor?
00:20:06.540 Where is the universe factor?
00:20:08.380 Thank you.
00:20:09.100 Where is it?
00:20:09.600 Thank you.
00:20:10.180 That's my point.
00:20:11.220 What you're saying is a good question.
00:20:13.340 Factory, factory, factory, factory.
00:20:14.880 You know why you're saying it?
00:20:15.900 Because logically, intelligently, you're deducing and saying there has to be a factory.
00:20:21.780 I'm doing that because you compare it with a phone.
00:20:23.780 That's why I do it.
00:20:24.760 Because you compare it with a phone.
00:20:25.760 Okay.
00:20:26.220 If you can say to the phone, you know what?
00:20:28.220 Forget the phone.
00:20:28.780 Let's go to a paper.
00:20:30.200 A paper is not as complex a design as a phone, yeah?
00:20:33.180 Okay.
00:20:33.500 A simple paper requires a factory.
00:20:36.240 Yeah.
00:20:36.740 Okay.
00:20:37.260 The universe is a billion times more complex than this paper.
00:20:40.280 If the paper requires a factory, well, guess what?
00:20:43.580 The universe requires something.
00:20:45.480 So you couldn't think of anything else than God, right?
00:20:48.620 Give me another one.
00:20:49.420 I'll accept it.
00:20:50.140 Magical fairies. 0.98
00:20:51.320 Magical fairies. 0.98
00:20:52.100 I don't know.
00:20:52.840 Okay, okay, okay.
00:20:53.560 Magical fairies. 0.98
00:20:54.340 Or perhaps two universes collided and there are...
00:20:57.200 Okay, where did...
00:20:58.680 Where did the...
00:20:59.460 Okay.
00:21:00.060 A multiverse.
00:21:00.900 Okay, multiverse is a flawed theory, yeah?
00:21:03.240 Says who? 0.65
00:21:03.900 It is, because it's a flawed theory.
00:21:05.240 No, no, no.
00:21:05.560 Says who? 0.65
00:21:05.980 Because it's a theory.
00:21:07.060 It's not proven.
00:21:07.900 Are you a cosmologist?
00:21:09.560 I don't need to be a cosmologist.
00:21:10.680 You don't need to be a cosmologist.
00:21:12.120 I don't need to be a cosmologist.
00:21:12.220 Just on the evolution of the theory, right?
00:21:13.120 I've looked into it.
00:21:14.660 I've looked into the multiverse theory.
00:21:16.240 And multiverse theory, it still goes back to the problem of infinite...
00:21:20.280 Infinite regress.
00:21:21.380 Yeah, you need something infinite.
00:21:22.340 You have...
00:21:22.780 You need something to start it.
00:21:24.260 So, who created God then?
00:21:25.980 No, that's the second issue.
00:21:26.980 That's an exemption.
00:21:27.540 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:21:28.900 That's the only exemption, right?
00:21:29.760 No, you're jumping the question.
00:21:31.320 It's only that...
00:21:31.980 You're jumping the question.
00:21:33.180 Right now, what we're trying to establish is does God exist?
00:21:36.400 Once we've established that, then you can ask me that question.
00:21:38.620 No, no, no.
00:21:38.880 No, no, listen.
00:21:39.380 So, therefore...
00:21:40.240 Wait, wait.
00:21:41.040 When you demonstrate the existence of the God...
00:21:43.480 Which I have.
00:21:44.020 No, you have not.
00:21:44.840 You haven't demonstrated anything.
00:21:46.480 Factory, factory, factory.
00:21:47.680 The universe is more complex.
00:21:48.820 Came by chance.
00:21:49.460 No, no, no.
00:21:50.180 Multiverse.
00:21:50.600 See, you're assuming.
00:21:51.020 Two universes collided.
00:21:52.380 You're assuming.
00:21:53.060 Let's be real.
00:21:53.500 You're assuming.
00:21:54.320 Where did the universe...
00:21:55.140 Okay, where did the universe come from?
00:21:56.900 I'm saying it came to existence by chance.
00:21:59.220 Okay, so the whole entire universe came to existence by chance.
00:22:03.060 Yes.
00:22:03.600 One in a trillion.
00:22:06.800 That's operationally impossible.
00:22:08.460 This is who?
00:22:09.500 Let me tell you who.
00:22:10.660 If you claim something, just because you give it a number,
00:22:13.400 it doesn't mean it's operationally possible.
00:22:15.200 That means it's operationally impossible, meaning...
00:22:17.520 One in something.
00:22:18.920 Okay, what's...
00:22:19.440 And that one made it.
00:22:20.580 Okay, is there a chance you can become a lamppost?
00:22:23.080 Wow.
00:22:24.300 What is that for a question?
00:22:25.440 It's a nonsensical...
00:22:26.920 It's a chance that you can become a dolphin.
00:22:27.560 Okay, one second, one second.
00:22:28.840 Is there a chance that you can become a moon?
00:22:30.100 No.
00:22:30.520 No.
00:22:30.680 No.
00:22:30.960 Okay, so what is that for a question?
00:22:31.980 So then there is a lesser of a chance for the universe to just pop into existence.
00:22:37.100 How do you conclude this?
00:22:38.060 Do you have anything to prove it?
00:22:39.500 No one's saying the universe just...
00:22:41.560 Look, look, look, look, look.
00:22:42.660 No one says that.
00:22:43.260 You're saying...
00:22:44.180 You're saying the phone has a cause.
00:22:46.140 You said the phone has a cause.
00:22:47.740 If the phone has a cause, the universe is a billion times more complex than the phone.
00:22:51.480 No one says the phone has a cause.
00:22:52.420 The phone doesn't have a cause.
00:22:54.300 I mean, we address a cause to it.
00:22:56.000 Does the phone have a cause?
00:22:56.700 We address a cause to it.
00:22:58.020 But does it have a cause or not?
00:22:58.840 We make the phone for a certain cause.
00:23:01.900 I'm not the cause.
00:23:02.920 If I'm the maker of the phone, I created it for a certain purpose.
00:23:06.900 So you gave it a purpose and you gave it a cause.
00:23:08.900 We address a purpose to it.
00:23:10.660 Okay, but does the phone have a cause?
00:23:13.320 If we address it to it, yeah.
00:23:15.000 It has a...
00:23:15.420 Good.
00:23:15.620 It's not a cause.
00:23:16.100 It has a function.
00:23:17.280 Okay, good.
00:23:18.280 It has a function.
00:23:19.080 It has a cause.
00:23:19.760 It has a purpose.
00:23:20.260 No, no.
00:23:20.580 Cause...
00:23:20.900 You cause him to be.
00:23:22.420 You're the consumer.
00:23:23.380 You cause him to be.
00:23:24.260 It's not cause.
00:23:24.640 It's a function.
00:23:25.340 Cause is the...
00:23:26.480 Okay, one second, one second.
00:23:27.480 Do you believe in...
00:23:28.160 Do you believe in cause and effect?
00:23:29.840 Cause and effect?
00:23:30.540 Yeah.
00:23:30.940 Look, cause, effect.
00:23:32.960 You're just demonstrating gravity.
00:23:34.560 It's not cause and effect.
00:23:35.700 It's just a demonstration of gravity.
00:23:36.980 Yeah, but you can't hold on to it.
00:23:38.360 Look, okay.
00:23:38.980 Okay, what's the cause?
00:23:39.740 Look, look.
00:23:40.280 Is this gravity?
00:23:41.120 Cause.
00:23:42.000 No, that's like...
00:23:42.760 Cause.
00:23:43.260 No, that's like...
00:23:43.880 Cause.
00:23:44.340 It's causing that to move.
00:23:45.420 Okay, so what I'm saying is...
00:23:46.660 The effect is there.
00:23:48.300 The cause and the effects.
00:23:49.580 So therefore, if you're gonna accept that everything that is made has a cause.
00:23:54.320 Design, cause, purpose.
00:23:56.060 But the universe?
00:23:56.680 By chance.
00:23:57.600 Why don't you wake up today and say, you know what?
00:23:59.920 Maybe we're all in a chance.
00:24:01.940 Maybe I have someone mass controlling me.
00:24:04.480 Chance.
00:24:05.000 If you're gonna go with chance, what's the chance that my dad is...
00:24:08.620 He never said chance.
00:24:09.880 He never said chance.
00:24:10.960 You said chance.
00:24:11.700 I said chance.
00:24:12.240 Okay, so this is logically and rationally, how do you make that claim that the whole universe came by chance?
00:24:18.580 Where do we get our rationale and logic from?
00:24:21.600 Thank you.
00:24:22.040 That's my point.
00:24:23.240 Rationale and logic.
00:24:24.100 For example, we're made out of atoms.
00:24:25.760 Yeah?
00:24:26.080 Yeah.
00:24:26.420 Okay.
00:24:27.040 We are all made out of atoms.
00:24:28.620 Atoms don't have consciousness.
00:24:30.020 Atoms don't have a will.
00:24:31.080 So how is it that it's given rise to us who have a conscious will?
00:24:36.440 Yes?
00:24:36.840 We have a conscious will and we have intelligence.
00:24:38.880 Because atoms don't have intelligence. 0.82
00:24:40.620 Atoms don't have a will.
00:24:41.800 Atoms don't have consciousness.
00:24:43.020 How do we have that?
00:24:43.860 Not the atom itself, but what it builds up to.
00:24:48.200 No, that's not...
00:24:49.100 I didn't know how to build up.
00:24:50.360 Brothers, brothers, brothers, brothers, please, please, please.
00:24:51.900 From the bottom up.
00:24:52.560 Let me ask you a question.
00:24:53.740 If this is empty, not literally, because we know there's some particles in here.
00:24:58.380 If we give this billions of years time, is there a chance that I'll have a chocolate strawberry cheesecake with extra chocolate on top?
00:25:04.400 Wrong comparison.
00:25:05.200 Wrong comparison.
00:25:06.020 It doesn't make sense because this is not alive.
00:25:07.740 All I've heard from you, Dragon, is it doesn't make sense and you've never explained why it doesn't make sense.
00:25:11.220 I'm going to explain it now because this is not alive.
00:25:13.560 Okay, this doesn't...
00:25:15.260 But, okay, so if it's empty, how can it give rise to something it doesn't have innate?
00:25:20.460 It cannot.
00:25:21.440 It cannot.
00:25:22.040 Okay, that's my point.
00:25:23.400 So I'm saying even if you give it trillions of years, you will never get a cheesecake because the elements to make a cheesecake is not inside.
00:25:29.180 Because this is...
00:25:29.940 So there can't be a chance.
00:25:31.640 Because this is a piece of plastic produced by an effective thank you.
00:25:35.660 So you keep talking about a factory.
00:25:37.320 It has nothing to do with the universe.
00:25:38.340 Exactly.
00:25:39.120 No, it does because if you keep saying the phone, the plastic, the card, your trainers,
00:25:43.420 your hat needs a factory, but for some reason, for some reason, the unit, it is, but for some reason, the biggest universe,
00:25:50.100 the universe that is more complex than your socks, is trance.
00:25:53.980 I didn't say it was trance.
00:25:55.120 Okay, what do you think?
00:25:55.580 I'm saying, listen, I'm saying, if there is a factory, if there is such thing, you should be able to show it, to demonstrate.
00:26:04.640 No, no, no, show it.
00:26:05.300 Are you saying that you have to see it?
00:26:06.340 Demonstrate it.
00:26:07.020 Demonstrate me the factory.
00:26:08.080 Are you saying you have to see it?
00:26:09.040 Are you saying you have to see it?
00:26:09.880 Demonstrate.
00:26:10.000 One second.
00:26:10.700 Are you saying you have to see it?
00:26:11.680 Demonstrate.
00:26:12.540 Demonstrate means you have to see it.
00:26:13.660 No.
00:26:13.720 No, you can demonstrate, for example, radio waves, you can demonstrate.
00:26:19.040 No, no, no, one second.
00:26:20.160 You can demonstrate...
00:26:21.160 One second, okay, okay, all right, can you...
00:26:22.880 One second, brother, brother, brother, brother, brother, brother, brother, brother, brother.
00:26:26.600 A UFO is just an...
00:26:29.600 Brother, we're going from the plane.
00:26:30.720 You guys are not helping.
00:26:31.720 A flying object, but you don't know where it is, okay?
00:26:35.720 Can I speak, please?
00:26:36.720 Can you show me your conscious?
00:26:37.720 My conscious?
00:26:38.720 Yeah.
00:26:39.720 Demonstrate it for me.
00:26:40.720 Of course not.
00:26:41.720 It doesn't exist.
00:26:42.720 I can demonstrate, I can show you...
00:26:43.720 Demonstrate it.
00:26:44.720 I can show you that I have a conscious.
00:26:45.720 No, you can't.
00:26:46.720 I mean, I think that I am.
00:26:47.720 No, you can't.
00:26:48.720 And we all, we all think.
00:26:49.720 That's subjective.
00:26:50.720 Can you demonstrate your consciousness to me?
00:26:51.720 Yeah, that's true.
00:26:52.720 No, one second.
00:26:53.720 It's something that doesn't need to be demonstrated at all.
00:26:55.720 No, no, no.
00:26:56.720 Oh, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:26:58.720 That's not fair.
00:26:59.720 It doesn't have to be demonstrated, but you have to be demonstrated good.
00:27:03.720 No, no, listen, listen.
00:27:04.720 Because, let me explain.
00:27:05.720 Because our consciousness is a product of our brain.
00:27:09.720 So we said that...
00:27:10.720 Wait, wait, wait, let me finish, let me finish.
00:27:11.720 Let me finish.
00:27:12.720 We can demonstrate our brain.
00:27:13.720 We can also demonstrate brain waves or...
00:27:16.720 Brain waves is not consciousness.
00:27:17.720 Sorry, or...
00:27:18.720 It's not consciousness.
00:27:19.720 Brain activity.
00:27:20.720 It's not consciousness.
00:27:21.720 No, no, but it is a part of our brain.
00:27:22.720 Our consciousness is different.
00:27:23.720 There is a whole argument with...
00:27:24.720 We determine our brain.
00:27:25.720 And yet again, consciousness and God is a bad comparison.
00:27:29.720 Bad comparison.
00:27:30.720 You always say that, but you don't demonstrate it.
00:27:31.720 Because...
00:27:32.720 Bad comparison.
00:27:33.720 Bad argument.
00:27:34.720 Let me explain.
00:27:35.720 Let me explain.
00:27:36.720 Because...
00:27:37.720 Let's see...
00:27:38.720 Our consciousness...
00:27:39.720 Our consciousness didn't create our whole universe.
00:27:41.720 That is not a claim that said...
00:27:42.720 But there was a consciousness that did.
00:27:44.720 That's your claim.
00:27:45.720 So...
00:27:46.720 Can you prove this?
00:27:47.720 I just did.
00:27:48.720 I asked you, can you demonstrate your consciousness to me?
00:27:49.720 My consciousness.
00:27:50.720 Can you?
00:27:51.720 Can I demonstrate that I'm alive?
00:27:52.720 Or that you're alive?
00:27:53.720 Yes.
00:27:54.720 That's subjective.
00:27:55.720 I am therefore...
00:27:56.720 I mean, I think that I am.
00:27:57.720 You are here.
00:27:58.720 We are here, right?
00:27:59.720 It's subjective.
00:28:00.720 Okay.
00:28:01.720 How do you know you're here?
00:28:02.720 And like I said, our consciousness is a product...
00:28:03.720 Really?
00:28:04.720 Listen.
00:28:05.720 Like I said, our consciousness is a product of our brain.
00:28:06.720 Okay.
00:28:07.720 Dragon.
00:28:08.720 No, no, no.
00:28:09.720 There's a whole argument with scientists about the hard problem of consciousness.
00:28:10.720 You can't even go there.
00:28:11.720 It's a difficult concept.
00:28:12.720 It's a very difficult concept.
00:28:13.720 It's a very difficult concept.
00:28:14.720 It's a part of our brain.
00:28:15.720 It's a part of our brain.
00:28:16.720 No, no, no.
00:28:17.720 You cannot say that.
00:28:20.720 You can't say that.
00:28:21.720 You can't say that.
00:28:22.720 Because every part of your body is made out of cells.
00:28:24.720 And your cells renew itself.
00:28:25.720 If it renews itself, then why don't you become another person if your consciousness is connected
00:28:28.720 to your brain?
00:28:29.720 How do you mean that?
00:28:30.720 Because every part of your cell, it renews itself.
00:28:33.720 If it renews itself, then you should become a different person.
00:28:36.720 Because if your cells are connected to your consciousness, to your brain.
00:28:39.720 So wait, wait.
00:28:40.720 Do you have like the same beliefs about certain things?
00:28:44.720 Or let's put it like this.
00:28:46.720 When you were like 10 years old, did you have certain things you believe were true, which
00:28:50.720 you later found out?
00:28:51.720 They're wrong.
00:28:52.720 Maybe.
00:28:53.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:54.720 There's no things I found out that was wrong.
00:28:55.720 So that means we and our brain, we can evolve.
00:28:56.720 We can change.
00:28:57.720 No.
00:28:58.720 Learning and consciousness are separate things.
00:29:00.720 So learning can change your consciousness.
00:29:01.720 Learning can change your consciousness.
00:29:02.720 I can show you that I'm real and that my brain exists.
00:29:05.720 No, you can't.
00:29:06.720 I'm here, right?
00:29:07.720 No, you can't show me your consciousness.
00:29:09.720 It doesn't matter.
00:29:10.720 But that's my point.
00:29:11.720 If you said to me, you said to me, I have to show you.
00:29:14.720 No, one second.
00:29:15.720 Please, please.
00:29:16.720 I'm so sorry.
00:29:17.720 If you say to me, you have me to show you God, then I'm going to say, show me your consciousness.
00:29:20.720 If you can't, your argument is flawed.
00:29:22.720 Hold on.
00:29:23.720 Because you're asking for something that you can't do.
00:29:24.720 Hold on.
00:29:25.720 You said there's a God.
00:29:27.720 Yes.
00:29:28.720 And I proved it.
00:29:29.720 Can you demonstrate that?
00:29:30.720 I did it.
00:29:31.720 I did it through the phone.
00:29:32.720 You didn't.
00:29:33.720 I did it through the conscious.
00:29:34.720 No, you didn't.
00:29:35.720 You didn't at all.
00:29:36.720 There was no demonstration at all.
00:29:37.720 No problem.
00:29:38.720 You're just tap dancing, like we said before.
00:29:39.720 No problem.
00:29:40.720 You can call it tap dancing, rap dancing, whatever you want to call it.
00:29:43.720 To me, that is unreasonable.
00:29:44.720 My point is this.
00:29:45.720 I'm not here to put an argument.
00:29:47.720 I'm just here to dialogue and learn and share the opinions that I have.
00:29:51.720 So you believe there's a God?
00:29:52.720 No, I believe.
00:29:53.720 I know there is a God.
00:29:54.720 So there's two things, yeah?
00:29:55.720 Belief and knowing.
00:29:56.720 Yes.
00:29:57.720 So you absolutely know.
00:29:59.720 I have no shadow of a doubt.
00:30:01.720 And I've demonstrated it through the phone.
00:30:03.720 We accepted today that we believe in things that we haven't gone and seen, that factories.
00:30:08.720 We believe that because that's innate.
00:30:09.720 We've also demonstrated that seeing is not believing because if that's the case, we'll
00:30:13.720 deny our conscious mind.
00:30:14.720 Yeah.
00:30:15.720 Yeah.
00:30:16.720 So therefore, we have to admit that the universe cannot come from nothing.
00:30:18.720 It cannot come by chance.
00:30:19.720 No, you said that.
00:30:20.720 No, no, no.
00:30:21.720 I'm just saying.
00:30:22.720 I'm saying.
00:30:23.720 I never said you said that.
00:30:24.720 The universe cannot come from nothing because nothing is the absence of something.
00:30:25.720 It cannot come by chance because that is-
00:30:27.720 Who said that?
00:30:28.720 No.
00:30:29.720 You're saying that.
00:30:30.720 No, no, no.
00:30:31.720 You're saying.
00:30:32.720 I never said that.
00:30:33.720 No, no, no.
00:30:34.720 I never said you said that.
00:30:35.720 We cannot.
00:30:36.720 I'm saying logically.
00:30:37.720 You're concluding.
00:30:38.720 No, logically we can't deduce-
00:30:39.720 What is your logic?
00:30:40.720 Your logic.
00:30:41.720 If you knew the logic, brother.
00:30:42.720 You're saying-
00:30:43.720 Your logic.
00:30:44.720 Subjectively.
00:30:45.720 What I'm saying is that-
00:30:46.720 You cannot have something-
00:30:47.720 Don't worry.
00:30:48.720 Is it your subjective logic?
00:30:49.720 No, no, no, no.
00:30:50.720 The arguments that I brought forth, I haven't seen one rebuttal.
00:30:54.720 Consciousness?
00:30:55.720 Consciousness?
00:30:56.720 Okay, okay, okay.
00:30:58.720 Show me your consciousness.
00:30:59.720 Okay, once again.
00:31:00.720 Once again.
00:31:01.720 I can show you I'm real.
00:31:02.720 Show me.
00:31:03.720 And I can show you my brain, okay?
00:31:04.720 Your consciousness.
00:31:05.720 Listen, listen.
00:31:06.720 My consciousness is a part of me-
00:31:07.720 Can you show me?
00:31:08.720 Listen, wait.
00:31:09.720 My consciousness is a part of me, a part of my brain, okay?
00:31:12.720 So you can see-
00:31:13.720 That's a claim.
00:31:14.720 Can you prove it, please?
00:31:16.720 I'm a person that's empirical.
00:31:18.720 You see, you try to shift the burden of proof.
00:31:20.720 And that's the thing that religious persons always try to do. 1.00
00:31:23.720 You shift the burden of proof.
00:31:24.720 But the burden of proof is on you.
00:31:26.720 Because you are claiming that, hey, God exists.
00:31:28.720 Okay.
00:31:29.720 And you cannot demonstrate.
00:31:30.720 You cannot prove this.
00:31:31.720 Anything you can do is tap dance, tap dance, and tap dance more.
00:31:35.720 Sorry, sir.
00:31:36.720 He gave you the reason.
00:31:37.720 Exactly.
00:31:38.720 There is no reason.
00:31:39.720 Even if I shifted it, I've presented an argument.
00:31:42.720 You haven't.
00:31:43.720 Where is your conscious mind?
00:31:44.720 You haven't.
00:31:45.720 You have to do with God.
00:31:46.720 I'll explain.
00:31:47.720 You are again shifting.
00:31:48.720 Sorry, man.
00:31:49.720 Where is your conscious mind?
00:31:50.720 You're making no sense.
00:31:51.720 Okay.
00:31:52.720 It doesn't matter.
00:31:53.720 Where is?
00:31:54.720 Okay.
00:31:55.720 Why haven't you said that?
00:31:56.720 Simple question.
00:31:57.720 Can you show me your conscious mind?
00:31:58.720 Yes or no?
00:31:59.720 Of course not.
00:32:00.720 Thank you.
00:32:01.720 How can I show you your conscious mind?
00:32:02.720 Stop, stop, stop.
00:32:03.720 If you cannot show me your conscious mind, you cannot come and say to me, show me or demonstrate God.
00:32:08.720 Yes, I can.
00:32:09.720 No, you can't.
00:32:10.720 Yes, I can.
00:32:11.720 No, you can't because you said you can't demonstrate your conscious mind.
00:32:12.720 Why?
00:32:13.720 Because I know that my consciousness is a part, like I said-
00:32:16.720 Prove it.
00:32:17.720 I'm an empirical guy.
00:32:18.720 I want to see.
00:32:19.720 See this believing.
00:32:20.720 I see.
00:32:21.720 I believe.
00:32:22.720 Show me.
00:32:23.720 So therefore, if you can't, you can't come and say to me-
00:32:25.720 Okay, so I cannot show you.
00:32:26.720 Does this mean that God-
00:32:27.720 Yes.
00:32:28.720 You know what this means?
00:32:29.720 You know what this means?
00:32:30.720 You can't come to me and say, show me God.
00:32:31.720 Otherwise, I don't believe because your argument is flawed.
00:32:33.720 So, okay.
00:32:34.720 I cannot show you the conscious-
00:32:35.720 He's loving this.
00:32:36.720 He's loving this.
00:32:37.720 Okay, wait.
00:32:38.720 So, I cannot show you this consciousness-
00:32:39.720 By the way, I'm not trying to make an ego fix.
00:32:41.720 No, no, no.
00:32:42.720 So, I cannot show you this-
00:32:43.720 I don't want to make an ego fix.
00:32:44.720 I cannot show you this consciousness, right?
00:32:45.720 Yeah.
00:32:46.720 Okay.
00:32:47.720 So, this means God is real?
00:32:48.720 No, no, no.
00:32:49.720 It means that you can't come and tell me that I have to demonstrate or show you God, because
00:32:54.720 if that's your premise, you can't show me your conscious mind.
00:32:57.720 So, that means we believe in things that exist that we don't see.
00:33:00.720 And you know it's bad.
00:33:01.720 You're comparing bad things.
00:33:02.720 You always say that, but you don't prove it.
00:33:04.720 Because, let me explain.
00:33:05.720 Like I said, a consciousness is a product of us human beings.
00:33:09.720 We are human beings.
00:33:10.720 We have a consciousness.
00:33:11.720 So, where this consciousness comes from-
00:33:14.720 Where does it come from?
00:33:15.720 It doesn't matter.
00:33:16.720 It doesn't matter.
00:33:17.720 It doesn't matter.
00:33:18.720 It doesn't matter.
00:33:19.720 The fact is that we all have a consciousness, right?
00:33:22.720 Yes.
00:33:23.720 Okay.
00:33:24.720 So, that means we-
00:33:25.720 And we can't see it.
00:33:26.720 That doesn't matter.
00:33:27.720 The thing is, the thing is, by shifting this burden of proof, I didn't.
00:33:31.720 Okay, I'll show the burden.
00:33:32.720 Okay, the burden is on me.
00:33:33.720 Yeah.
00:33:34.720 The burden is on you to prove.
00:33:35.720 The burden is on me, then let me carry the burden of the argument on me.
00:33:39.720 Therefore, I said, my argument was the following to them, yeah?
00:33:42.720 Maybe you can add on to this, yeah?
00:33:44.720 So, I'll show that I'm being fair.
00:33:46.720 You believe, do you believe this iPhone is designed because you went to the factory?
00:33:51.720 Or even, you believe it even if you didn't go to the factory?
00:33:54.720 Is your belief in the iPhone is designed based on the fact that you could go to the factory,
00:33:59.720 or you believe in it regardless?
00:34:01.720 Yeah.
00:34:02.720 Do you get it?
00:34:03.720 My point is this.
00:34:04.720 We believe things around us, my clothes, my trainers, I believe they're designed,
00:34:08.720 not because I can go to the factory, but by losing my logic and saying there is design.
00:34:13.720 They say, no, I'll only believe if I see the factory.
00:34:16.720 No, I didn't say that.
00:34:17.720 You see, that's a funny thing.
00:34:19.720 I'm saying, we can know, we can determine that a phone is made because we can go to a factory.
00:34:24.720 Thank you.
00:34:25.720 And, you forgot again, we can, if we put our minds together, create a phone of ourselves, right?
00:34:29.720 Exactly.
00:34:30.720 We cannot do the same for the universe.
00:34:31.720 So, that's why, that's why, comparing a phone with the universe is not done.
00:34:37.720 You can't do this.
00:34:38.720 I can't do it because the fear is created.
00:34:39.720 Let me tell you why.
00:34:40.720 So, wait.
00:34:41.720 By proving that a phone is created, that doesn't mean that a God must be created.
00:34:44.720 No, it doesn't.
00:34:45.720 No, it doesn't.
00:34:46.720 You mean inconsistent?
00:34:47.720 No.
00:34:48.720 Because what that means is, what that means is the following.
00:34:50.720 Yeah.
00:34:51.720 I wake up, I look at this paper, I believe it's designed, I believe it has a purpose, therefore
00:34:56.720 if somebody designed it, but the universe dies a million times more complex, came by chance.
00:35:01.720 No, I'm just saying in a moment.
00:35:02.720 So, inconsistent.
00:35:03.720 So, inconsistent.
00:35:04.720 What does it matter?
00:35:05.720 Inconsistent.
00:35:06.720 The paper.
00:35:07.720 So, no one said chance?
00:35:08.720 The paper, designer, universe, chance.
00:35:10.720 No.
00:35:11.720 Inconsistent.
00:35:12.720 No.
00:35:13.720 You're making a logical fallacy, man.
00:35:14.720 You're making a jump.
00:35:15.720 Which logical fallacy?
00:35:16.720 Well, first of all, which logical fallacy?
00:35:17.720 You're coming with creating out of nothing, blah, blah, blah.
00:35:20.720 No one says this.
00:35:21.720 No, no.
00:35:22.720 I haven't said this.
00:35:23.720 So, where did the universe come from?
00:35:24.720 Where did the universe come from?
00:35:25.720 Still.
00:35:26.720 The best answer is, I don't know.
00:35:28.720 Look, I don't know is just a cop out.
00:35:30.720 No.
00:35:31.720 I don't know is better than to say, I know, but I cannot prove it.
00:35:36.720 I'm so sorry.
00:35:37.720 That's the thing.
00:35:38.720 You say, I know, it's God, but I cannot show it.
00:35:40.720 No, no, no.
00:35:41.720 And if you ask me, I'll start tap dancing and talk about phones and clothes.
00:35:44.720 You make no sense.
00:35:45.720 No, no, no.
00:35:46.720 I'm not tap dancing.
00:35:47.720 I'm saying to you very simply that this is the double standards of our atheist friends sometimes,
00:35:52.720 who knows your respect.
00:35:53.720 When it comes to their day-to-day life, when they go outside, when they wake up, they don't wake
00:35:57.720 up and say, am I in the matrix?
00:35:58.720 When they go downstairs and have breakfast, everything is logical.
00:36:02.720 When they cross the road, left and right.
00:36:05.720 But when it comes to the universe, what happens?
00:36:08.720 The ultra skeptic brain comes in.
00:36:10.720 I don't know.
00:36:11.720 I don't know.
00:36:12.720 Maybe.
00:36:13.720 A minute ago he goes, two universes collided.
00:36:14.720 Maybe.
00:36:15.720 I said maybe.
00:36:16.720 I don't know.
00:36:17.720 Anything but God.
00:36:18.720 Anything but God.
00:36:19.720 He even said fairies.
00:36:20.720 He even said fairies.
00:36:21.720 He goes fairies. 1.00
00:36:22.720 Exactly.
00:36:23.720 So, you know what that does?
00:36:24.720 You know what that shows me?
00:36:25.720 You know what it shows me?
00:36:26.720 Absolute inconsistency.
00:36:28.720 Let me show you.
00:36:29.720 Everything they do in their day-to-day life is logic, conscience, logic, rationality.
00:36:34.720 But when it comes to the universe, charts, fairy tales, UFOs, aliens, inconsistency.
00:36:42.720 Let's be consistent.
00:36:43.720 If you're going to be a skeptic, wake up every day and say, you know what?
00:36:49.720 I don't know if I'm here.
00:36:50.720 I don't know if I'm real.
00:36:51.720 I don't know if I'm in the matrix.
00:36:53.720 Be consistent.
00:36:54.720 Be consistent.
00:36:55.720 Let's prove.
00:36:56.720 No, no, no.
00:36:57.720 What I'm saying to him is that you can't ask for it.
00:37:02.720 No, no, no.
00:37:03.720 I'm saying that we can't say consciousness is in our brain.
00:37:07.720 We can't say that.
00:37:09.720 We can't say that.
00:37:10.720 Because there's a whole argument of the hard problem of consciousness, yeah?
00:37:12.720 So we can't say that claim.
00:37:13.720 Don't make bold claims.
00:37:14.720 Where are you?
00:37:15.720 No, no, no.
00:37:16.720 What I'm saying is that I believe in a spirit.
00:37:18.720 I believe in the soul.
00:37:19.720 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
00:37:20.720 I'm here.
00:37:21.720 No, no.
00:37:22.720 I never said that.
00:37:23.720 I never said that.
00:37:24.720 I know the consciousness.
00:37:25.720 I'm saying it's not.
00:37:26.720 We can't say it's connected to the brain.
00:37:27.720 Okay.
00:37:28.720 So if it's not in the brain, where is it?
00:37:29.720 In the brain.
00:37:30.720 I have a soul.
00:37:31.720 I have a soul.
00:37:32.720 So the soul is consciousness?
00:37:34.720 It can be.
00:37:35.720 We believe in the wrong.
00:37:36.720 So you're not sure?
00:37:37.720 No, no, no.
00:37:38.720 Islamically, what we say is that when...
00:37:40.720 You know someone who has near-death experiences?
00:37:42.720 Yeah.
00:37:43.720 Or out-of-body experiences?
00:37:44.720 Yeah.
00:37:45.720 When they're passed over, yeah?
00:37:46.720 So these experiences, obviously we can't verify them.
00:37:48.720 We can't say if they're true or not.
00:37:49.720 But what we can say is if the brain is dead, and they're seeing doctors operating on them...
00:37:54.720 You're good?
00:37:55.720 You're on?
00:37:56.720 In my belief system, it's a faith vision.
00:37:57.720 I was asking you directly, because you've used a conscious argument on him.
00:38:00.720 On him, but because he's saying, I want to see...
00:38:02.720 I know.
00:38:03.720 I know.
00:38:04.720 Why don't you have the same standards for your God?
00:38:07.720 You don't.
00:38:08.720 You don't.
00:38:09.720 Where are your consciousness then?
00:38:10.720 Look, look, look.
00:38:11.720 I didn't say my consciousness is in another planet.
00:38:14.720 No, I'm asking you.
00:38:15.720 I can't say that.
00:38:16.720 I don't know.
00:38:17.720 Where is your standards for your God?
00:38:18.720 Okay.
00:38:19.720 If you don't know, then you don't know who you are.
00:38:21.720 Yeah.
00:38:22.720 No, not really.
00:38:23.720 You said you don't know where your consciousness is.
00:38:24.720 But that doesn't mean I don't know who I am.
00:38:25.720 You said you don't know where your consciousness is.
00:38:27.720 Yeah, but that doesn't mean I don't know who I am, though.
00:38:29.720 Like my consciousness...
00:38:30.720 Let's suppose my consciousness is Mars.
00:38:31.720 So it could be a Mars?
00:38:32.720 Let's suppose.
00:38:33.720 It doesn't mean I don't know who I am.
00:38:34.720 No, could it be Mars?
00:38:35.720 Let's say it is.
00:38:36.720 No, could it be?
00:38:37.720 But I don't know.
00:38:38.720 Could it possibly...
00:38:39.720 Okay, let's say...
00:38:40.720 You don't know, right?
00:38:41.720 Okay, let's say.
00:38:42.720 I don't know.
00:38:43.720 But that doesn't mean I don't know myself.
00:38:44.720 This is very...
00:38:45.720 I'm asking you, though, to tell me.
00:38:46.720 No, no, no.
00:38:47.720 I don't believe that.
00:38:48.720 I'm asking Islamikans. 1.00
00:38:49.720 I'm asking you because you use a conscious argument on him.
00:38:50.720 Which was good when I agreed with you.
00:38:51.720 Yeah.
00:38:52.720 You can't prove consciousness.
00:38:53.720 Yeah.
00:38:54.720 And I agree.
00:38:55.720 But going with that, even for you.
00:38:57.720 Yeah.
00:38:58.720 Right?
00:38:59.720 If you can't prove consciousness to someone else.
00:39:01.720 Yeah.
00:39:02.720 Then what is your verification that you even are conscious being?
00:39:04.720 No, no, no.
00:39:05.720 The argument that I'm...
00:39:06.720 Yes, yes.
00:39:07.720 That's what I'm making.
00:39:08.720 But I'm throwing it back at you.
00:39:09.720 You don't like it.
00:39:10.720 No, no, no.
00:39:11.720 The only way you can do that is if I make a claim that I know where consciousness is and I have a go at him for not knowing.
00:39:16.720 Don't you make a claim?
00:39:17.720 You're missing the point.
00:39:18.720 If I have a go at him to say that he says the consciousness is in the brain and I say to him, no, it's not.
00:39:26.720 It's in the heart.
00:39:27.720 Then you can...
00:39:28.720 Oh, I don't know where it is.
00:39:29.720 You're going to say, Ali, you have no right of questioning him when you don't know yourself.
00:39:33.720 I never made that claim.
00:39:34.720 I said the argument of consciousness is because he's asking to see, demonstrate God.
00:39:38.720 But don't you see how...
00:39:39.720 I know what you're saying.
00:39:40.720 Do you get it?
00:39:41.720 But don't you see how that puts you both on the same...
00:39:43.720 Oh, it doesn't know.
00:39:44.720 I'm using it.
00:39:45.720 You see how that puts you on the same ground.
00:39:48.720 How?
00:39:49.720 Because he can't prove consciousness and you can't prove consciousness.
00:39:51.720 No, no, no.
00:39:52.720 You're missing the point.
00:39:53.720 No, no, no.
00:39:54.720 I'm not missing the point.
00:39:55.720 You're saying that under the mirror.
00:39:56.720 You totally missed the point.
00:39:57.720 It's the most fundamental part of you is consciousness.
00:40:00.720 But you're missing the point.
00:40:01.720 The most fundamental part of you is consciousness.
00:40:03.720 If you don't know what it is, okay, or where it is, then everything you are saying is based on something that you don't even know what it is.
00:40:12.720 But I never made that claim.
00:40:14.720 I'm telling you.
00:40:15.720 I'm telling you.
00:40:16.720 I know, but you're going to another argument.
00:40:17.720 Right now we're talking about where consciousness is.
00:40:19.720 I never talked about it.
00:40:20.720 I never...
00:40:21.720 I know you didn't.
00:40:22.720 Okay, so are you saying it's a separate discussion?
00:40:25.720 It depends how you look at it.
00:40:27.720 Yes, it is.
00:40:28.720 Because consciousness, I'm saying to him, we believe in things that we can't see.
00:40:33.720 So therefore, don't come and tell me to show me God because you already...
00:40:36.720 I know.
00:40:37.720 That's what I'm saying.
00:40:38.720 What you're asking me is where is consciousness?
00:40:40.720 That is a different topic where we...
00:40:42.720 He can say in the brain.
00:40:43.720 I can say in the body.
00:40:45.720 You can say I don't agree.
00:40:46.720 It's a separate topic.
00:40:47.720 Don't you find it interesting that you don't know the most fundamental part of yourself?
00:40:52.720 No, not really.
00:40:53.720 Because the thing is, at the end of the day, where it is doesn't determine who I am.
00:40:57.720 I'm not saying where it is.
00:40:58.720 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:40:59.720 It's not necessarily where, but it's the most fundamental part of yourself.
00:41:02.720 You don't know what it is.
00:41:03.720 No, no, no, no.
00:41:04.720 Like you said, scientists don't know.
00:41:05.720 No, no, no.
00:41:06.720 I'm saying, Islamically, we can say that's the soul.
00:41:08.720 No, no, no, no.
00:41:09.720 And we...
00:41:10.720 I have...
00:41:11.720 We believe we're not.
00:41:12.720 No, no, no.
00:41:13.720 Of course, I believe.
00:41:14.720 Of course, that's what I'm saying.
00:41:15.720 Yeah, exactly.
00:41:16.720 Sorry, I'm going to have to...
00:41:18.720 You don't know.
00:41:19.720 For what?
00:41:20.720 Okay.
00:41:21.720 I'm studying.
00:41:22.720 So why don't you have the same standards for your God?
00:41:25.720 Because you're saying, you're saying like, okay, so I can't prove consciousness, so...
00:41:30.720 Can you demonstrate the existence of your God?
00:41:33.720 No, no, no.
00:41:34.720 Because you still have...
00:41:35.720 No, no, no.
00:41:36.720 Like I said before, I have made an argument from design.
00:41:39.720 I've made an argument.
00:41:40.720 Because you're comparing...
00:41:41.720 You're comparing a fault.
00:41:42.720 No, but that's the thing.
00:41:43.720 You're comparing...
00:41:44.720 No, you have to tell me why it's a fault.
00:41:46.720 Okay, let me explain.
00:41:47.720 Because you're comparing something which is clearly made by man, by people, to something
00:41:52.720 which we don't know how it came into existence.
00:41:54.720 Thank you.
00:41:55.720 So therefore, I'm saying as human beings, if we can affirm a designer to something man-made,
00:42:00.720 how could we negate something that is greater than man-made?
00:42:05.720 Because we don't know...
00:42:06.720 We don't know...
00:42:07.720 I don't know if it's just a cop-out.
00:42:08.720 Because...
00:42:09.720 It's a firing.
00:42:10.720 No.
00:42:11.720 I don't know is the most honest answer you can give.
00:42:12.720 No, it's not.
00:42:13.720 It is.
00:42:14.720 It's not.
00:42:15.720 If that's the case, do the same thing with everything in your life.
00:42:17.720 No, no, no.
00:42:18.720 When you wake up, say, I'm in the matrix.
00:42:20.720 No.
00:42:21.720 Maybe my toast machine is not my toast machine.
00:42:22.720 There are many things you can do.
00:42:23.720 Maybe my mum is not my mum.
00:42:24.720 No.
00:42:25.720 It's all bad comparison.
00:42:26.720 It's all bad comparison.
00:42:27.720 It's all bad comparison.
00:42:28.720 Anyway, thank you for your time to compare this time.
00:42:30.720 Yeah, you said nothing.
00:42:31.720 You too.
00:42:32.720 It's just like...
00:42:33.720 I don't want this to come across aggressive.
00:42:35.720 We were passionate.
00:42:36.720 We were learning about each other.
00:42:37.720 Thank you for your time.
00:42:39.720 I need to come back.
00:42:40.720 It was interesting.