AGNOSTIC FINDS EVIDENCE FOR A CREATOR ｜｜ SPEAKERS CORNER
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, we discuss whether or not there is a creator to the universe, the iPad, and the universe. We talk about simple simple reasoning, and how we can come to the conclusion that there might be a creator.
Transcript
00:00:30.000
What reason do you think you have to come to the conclusion of maybe there is, like what brings you that doubt where you say...
00:00:38.080
I think I can't give an honest answer to the fact that everything is created and there could be a creator to, you know, the starting point basically.
00:00:49.240
So I don't have a very good answer to it, so that's why I think there might be a creator, hence...
00:00:54.840
Okay, if we, if we, if the doc, if we help you understand that, would you be...
00:01:00.620
Okay, let's use basic simple reasoning, yeah, simple reasoning, like for example, if you went home and you found a plate smashed on the floor, would you ever come to the conclusion when you walk home, would you think the plate jumped and smashed itself?
00:01:15.700
What would be the first basic reasoning you come to, like when you see the plate smashed?
00:01:24.460
So what we say is, let's use the same simple basic reasoning with something that is more complex than a plate being smashed on the floor.
00:01:31.480
Like for example, let me give you another example.
00:01:34.860
If I had a piece of paper in my hand, tissue, yeah, scrambled tissue, yeah, and I had an iPad in my hand, yeah, which one would you say is more slightly designed?
00:01:45.820
I think both are designed with the iPad, I would say, yeah.
00:01:48.360
You say, okay, both are designed, but you go more for the iPad, right?
00:01:52.260
So this is, this is what we're, we're, we're saying.
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It's that using basic simple reasoning, you come to that simple conclusion, just as you see the plate smashed on the floor.
00:02:00.000
So if I say to you, let's use the iPad and the universe, which one would you say is most likely designed?
00:02:09.060
Yeah, from that, yeah, I would say universe is, obviously, it's more complex.
00:02:17.460
Because most of the things, what you're saying is, most of the things are actually created, hence we can assign a creator to it.
00:02:24.300
Anything which is not created, so life, life, so, yeah.
00:02:30.000
So I would say, life, how could you say life is not created?
00:02:34.020
So that's what, it's something we don't know about, because we haven't seen somebody creating life.
00:02:40.320
Have you seen the person who created this iPad?
00:02:44.060
No, I haven't seen it, well, it's PSM, out of the videos.
00:02:47.020
Yeah, and I'm just trying to make you understand.
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By the way, by the way, you know we're discussing, yeah?
00:02:50.320
I don't, I don't want to seem like I'm trying to make an argument.
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I just genuinely want you to understand my point.
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If I'm wrong, say Ali, look there, you didn't make sense, yeah?
00:02:56.700
So, like, forgive me, if you want, we can speak in private.
00:03:00.380
If you want, because the thing is, you know when we're here, and there's people watching.
00:03:03.980
Okay, yeah, I just want you to understand, and I'm sure you're sincere, yeah?
00:03:06.600
So, the reason why I ask is, because you can say to me, Ali, I can go to the factory and see the one who made this.
00:03:15.700
And the fact that you didn't, and you don't have to, like, I don't think you have to go to the factory to say, you know what, let me go double check.
00:03:21.820
Did this iPad come in this, or, you come to that basic conclusion, do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:03:29.740
But, just because we do not see the person who created it, or the creator created the universe, that does not mean there is not a creator.
00:03:54.100
So, would it be right for you to say, Ali, you have no mind?
00:03:58.660
But these are some concepts which are, I mean, you can't see as of...
00:04:04.180
So, that's the evidence I will give to say, just because you can't see the creator, doesn't mean there's no creator.
00:04:12.560
So, that's why we say, when the universe is more complex than the iPad, it should have a design and a creator.
00:04:19.780
Because it's a trillion times more complex, yeah?
00:04:22.380
So, even this evolution theory of we evolve, let's suppose, let's take the argument, yeah?
00:04:28.680
Even though there's this apparently missing link, yeah?
00:04:33.820
The first cell, Darwin described it as like, oh, it's just this cell and we evolve.
00:04:38.500
He made it seem like it's the most simplest thing, it is the most complex thing.
00:04:42.380
Today, scientists have found out the way the DNA works, your brain, your mind will stop.
00:04:49.640
But the question we ask is, where did the first cell come from?
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We don't know, but what we know is that there's information in the DNA.
00:04:59.480
So, does that information come from knowledge or no knowledge?
00:05:04.920
Like, where would we say, like, for example, this iPad either came from knowledge or no knowledge?
00:05:10.720
Like, is there anything else I can add in there?
00:05:14.380
In this particular, because all the examples are actually the examples which human knowledge has created.
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Anything else which is apart from human knowledge.
00:05:28.800
one part of DNA, I think they said it will fill up how many thousands of libraries?
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So, what we're saying is there's knowledge there.
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Science, there's knowledge there, there's information there, yeah?
00:05:38.920
So, what we say is, you put the information there.
00:05:44.640
Would you say it came from no knowledge or knowledge?
00:05:48.600
I mean, I've got nothing to compare it against.
00:05:53.140
So, as in any living thing, how does knowledge...
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I think the comparison to a non-living thing like an iPad is a false comparison.
00:06:03.160
So, the comparison to a living thing would be a right one and I don't have any answer
00:06:07.040
because I haven't seen anything, any living thing created by another knowledgeable entity.
00:06:13.480
So, as in life created by a knowledgeable entity like myself, I haven't seen that.
00:06:23.600
...by a person that had a will, had conscious and rationality.
00:06:35.120
The individual who made this, there was knowledge behind him doing it.
00:06:43.060
So, what we're saying is the universe or the self...
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I'm just going to make this simple self, which is...
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We call it simple but it's very complex as well, yeah?
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There's knowledge behind it because, you know, I was doing a bit of research actually.
00:07:00.860
I mean, logically it makes sense that there should be some knowledge because you're comparing it to something.
00:07:12.120
They say there's like machines in the DNA which copy the...
00:07:22.020
So, the thing is, what we do is when we look at that, using our basic reasoning logic,
00:07:30.680
And if I say there has to be a creator or a designer behind it, I have to use the same principle
00:07:36.260
with the universe or anything else that looks designed.
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Our understanding is very limited in terms of how things are created.
00:07:51.940
We know 0.1% of things, you know, to be honest.
00:07:54.680
So, you can't say that it should definitely be coming from a knowledgeable entity.
00:08:07.140
But the thing is, there should be a universal understanding of certain things.
00:08:10.500
If I showed a tissue to anyone, even this iPad, no one would ever say it came by chance.
00:08:21.700
If you find me one person that will say to a tissue...
00:08:27.320
If anyone comes to me and says, there's no designer behind it, then I'll have to question
00:08:33.240
So, what we're trying to say is, simple reasoning is what we're using.
00:08:45.300
If we use simple reasoning, if a tissue has a designer, which you claim was made by a man,
00:08:49.720
and that man has to have knowledge, has to have a will to do that, right?
00:08:54.020
So, what we're saying is, even though you haven't gone and seen that man, the fact that you came to the conclusion of his design,
00:09:02.860
Universe, we don't need to see the creator to come to the conclusion.
00:09:10.620
So, I'm just saying, using that simple reasoning, can you not say, there has to be a creator?
00:09:17.320
We know there was a beginning for the universe.
00:09:20.200
Like, everything that begins to exist has a cause, yeah?
00:09:25.480
Like, meaning, everything that begins to exist, there must be a cause.
00:09:31.540
So, what we see is, there's three options, yeah?
00:09:49.200
Can you give me an example of something coming from nothing?
00:09:57.200
Because nothing is the absence of something, yeah?
00:10:05.120
Because for it to create itself, it has to exist and not exist at the same time.
00:10:10.800
It's like saying, my mother gave birth to herself.
00:10:14.260
It has to be there and not be there at the same time.
00:10:16.220
The only conclusion that we have, it was created.
00:10:23.540
Okay, it's creative, but who is the creator, yeah?
00:10:37.700
So, what we're just trying to say is that, look, yeah?
00:10:40.620
There has to be a designer, there has to be a creator.
00:11:42.740
they are coming by natural processes, are they not?
00:11:49.100
around how these patterns have actually developed
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and the colours, how they produce these patterns.
00:11:59.140
It's purely by the physical, natural processes.
00:12:06.340
these patterns have been put down on these animals
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And the people are saying thank you to the money.
00:12:40.000
Who, if we, I think I established by reasoning,
00:13:21.980
that is controlled by the one who created it, yeah?
00:13:25.200
So it's all about the origin of everything, isn't it?
00:13:32.540
if we don't know about the origins of this world,
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we can't deny that there's a creator because...