Ali Dawah - February 26, 2018


ALI DAWAH MEETS LAUREN SOUTHERN


Episode Stats


Length

36 minutes

Words per minute

238.78732

Word count

8,664

Sentence count

771

Harmful content

Misogyny

42

sentences flagged

Hate speech

86

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I speak with Ali about her views on the hijab and why she doesn't want to shake hands with non-Muslims. We also talk about the difference between being a Muslim woman and a non-Christian woman, and why it's wrong to shake someone else's hand.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Like, if I said certain things to you forever about the hijab, you're not going to agree with it, yeah? 1.00
00:00:04.000 Neither am I going to agree with certain things you believe.
00:00:06.000 But this doesn't mean we depart our ways, we have our common factors and we go with that.
00:00:09.000 So for example, do we both agree that rape is wrong?
00:00:12.000 Yes.
00:00:13.000 Do we both agree that killing innocent people is wrong?
00:00:15.000 Yes.
00:00:16.000 Do we both agree that we should live in harmony?
00:00:17.000 No.
00:00:30.000 Lighting okay?
00:00:33.000 Yep.
00:00:34.000 Everyone's beautiful.
00:00:36.000 So, Ali, you've repeatedly contacted me on Twitter.
00:00:40.000 You've wanted to talk for a while.
00:00:42.000 It's good to finally meet you.
00:00:44.000 First things first, will you shake my hand?
00:00:47.000 No.
00:00:48.000 No, you won't shake my hand.
00:00:49.000 Why not?
00:00:50.000 Don't shake my hand.
00:00:51.000 Oh yeah, shake my hand.
00:01:00.000 Because in our religion, just like, for example, we're Orthodox Christians and Orthodox Jews.
00:01:06.000 So, I live quite near Stamford Hill.
00:01:08.000 I don't know if you've been there.
00:01:09.000 There's a massive Jewish community there.
00:01:11.000 And they have obviously beliefs, and I respect those beliefs.
00:01:13.000 So for example, sometimes when they come out from the synagogue, the women don't really walk on the same side as them. 0.98
00:01:18.000 Now, to them, we see that a bit extreme, because in Stam we don't have that.
00:01:21.000 We don't say a woman has to walk over the street, or a woman is something abnormal. 0.79
00:01:25.000 She's an abnormal creature where you can't be next to her. 0.91
00:01:27.000 No.
00:01:28.000 Islam gives a lot of rights.
00:01:29.000 For example, the right to divorce.
00:01:31.000 You know, 1400 years ago, when women were treated like, it was actually like this.
00:01:36.000 It was a man who had the rights, then it would be maybe a camel, then it would be a woman. 1.00
00:01:40.000 So now, Islam came to abolish that, because back in those days, they used to bury their daughters alive. 1.00
00:01:45.000 Yeah?
00:01:46.000 Why?
00:01:47.000 Because they were a girl.
00:01:48.000 So the Prophet Muhammad came to abolish that. 0.60
00:01:50.000 Why?
00:01:51.000 Because, why would you bury your daughter alive?
00:01:52.000 Because she's a woman. 0.93
00:01:53.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:01:54.000 So, back then, just to finish, sorry, just to finish up.
00:01:57.000 So, the woman got the rights to vote. 0.99
00:01:58.000 The woman got a right to choose who she wants to marry. 1.00
00:02:00.000 The woman got a right to not adopt her husband's surname.
00:02:03.000 The woman in Islam has a right to, for example, my wife, if she has 20 million pounds in her 0.99
00:02:09.000 account, and I'm broke, I'm not allowed to touch her money.
00:02:12.000 I need to provide for her.
00:02:13.000 So, she has a right to education, a right to own property, a right to divorce. 0.99
00:02:18.000 When you look at Orthodox Jews, they- 1.00
00:02:20.000 But that wasn't what I was asking about, was it?
00:02:21.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:02:22.000 It wasn't, but it's just to give you a little context behind, because what happens is, me
00:02:25.000 not shaking your hand automatically might make people think, hold on a second, why?
00:02:29.000 Is there something wrong with Lauren's hand?
00:02:31.000 Or like what Jada says from Britain First, Isaac, because I'm a dirty kufrad. 0.96
00:02:34.000 These kind of things, I really want to get this misconception out there, but it's got
00:02:37.000 nothing to do with you being a woman. 1.00
00:02:38.000 Well then, what is it?
00:02:39.000 Why can't you shake my hand?
00:02:40.000 Because-
00:02:41.000 Could you shake my hand if I were a man?
00:02:42.000 Oh yeah, no, of course.
00:02:43.000 Of course.
00:02:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I wouldn't.
00:02:45.000 Because the thing is, for example, it's not just because of you.
00:02:46.000 If a Muslim woman came to me and said, shake my hand, I'd be like, no. 1.00
00:02:49.000 It's not because you're a non-Muslim.
00:02:51.000 Even if it's a Muslim- 1.00
00:02:52.000 It's because I'm a woman, right?
00:02:53.000 Well, yeah, why?
00:02:54.000 No, no, it's because you're an opposite gender. 1.00
00:02:56.000 You're from the opposite gender. 1.00
00:02:57.000 So, it's the same with a Muslim woman. 0.99
00:02:58.000 She would not shake the hand of another man, be it a Muslim or not. 0.99
00:03:02.000 So, it's not about you being a non-Muslim.
00:03:03.000 It's because we just believe that interaction is for your husband or your father or your brother.
00:03:08.000 And just the way the Orthodox Jews have that belief as well.
00:03:11.000 I respect that.
00:03:12.000 But, like for example, if I say to you, I have a belief where you need to touch my toe.
00:03:16.000 If I say to you, Lauren, can you touch my toe please?
00:03:18.000 You might find out a bit like, I prefer not to.
00:03:21.000 But, especially if that's my culture.
00:03:22.000 Right.
00:03:23.000 Exactly.
00:03:24.000 You know, I actually agree with you.
00:03:25.000 I think it's totally fine that you have those beliefs and that you behave in that way.
00:03:29.000 However, you are aware you are in England right now where shaking one's hand is seen as a sign of greeting and respect.
00:03:35.000 Yeah.
00:03:36.000 No, no.
00:03:37.000 Of course, you're right.
00:03:38.000 Now, for example, just because I'm in England, that doesn't matter.
00:03:40.000 I obey the law of the land.
00:03:41.000 For example, I try to stay away from crime.
00:03:43.000 Yeah?
00:03:44.000 I try to obey the law of the land as much as I can to the best of my ability.
00:03:46.000 Why?
00:03:47.000 Like I showed my passport when I confronted Tony Robinson is that that passport is an agreement
00:03:51.000 with me and this British government that I'll obey the law of the land.
00:03:54.000 I'm not going to go and do what these maniacs do, run people over or whatever it may be.
00:03:58.000 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
00:03:59.000 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
00:04:00.000 I'm here to obey the law of the land.
00:04:01.000 I'm here to live in peace side by side by you and have an interaction with me and talk to you.
00:04:05.000 And like you see today, for example, we're here to interact with people and live in harmony.
00:04:09.000 We're not here just because I live in this land.
00:04:11.000 This doesn't mean that you impose your ideas or I impose my ideas on you.
00:04:14.000 If I come and say to you, Lauren, why are you not wearing a hijab?
00:04:17.000 You're going to say, Ali, first you might say, look, this is my country.
00:04:19.000 But if we were in, let's say, Dubai, yeah?
00:04:21.000 I'm not going to come and say, Lauren, why are you not wearing a hijab?
00:04:24.000 That's your choice.
00:04:25.000 I'm not going to come and say, hey, you're in a Muslim land, put your hijab on. 0.91
00:04:28.000 No, it doesn't work.
00:04:29.000 I actually think that I should assimilate to, if I go and I move somewhere, I should assimilate to that culture.
00:04:34.000 I think that would be very important.
00:04:35.000 And I think as someone who is Christian, I wouldn't go and move to a Muslim majority country 1.00
00:04:39.000 because I don't think I'd fit very well there.
00:04:41.000 And I don't think I would be creating areas of just Christians, no-go zones, 1.00
00:04:45.000 where Muslims couldn't come into and practice their faith in a Muslim nation.
00:04:48.000 There's no such thing as no-go zones because I've been there.
00:04:51.000 You've been to no-go zones in the UK?
00:04:53.000 Yes, absolutely.
00:04:54.000 In the UK?
00:04:55.000 I've been to areas where, okay, some of the worst ones I've seen have been in kind of the suburbs of Paris.
00:05:00.000 And of course...
00:05:01.000 Can you define no-go zones?
00:05:02.000 Because I find that really funny.
00:05:03.000 No offence to you, yeah?
00:05:05.000 These no-go zones, I would be happy to walk with you and just really see if there's no-go zone areas.
00:05:10.000 Because if they really are, that means, I'll say, Lauren, you know what?
00:05:13.000 This is a problem with our community.
00:05:14.000 Right.
00:05:15.000 We need to fix that.
00:05:16.000 What do you mean no-go zone area?
00:05:17.000 How could Lauren not walk through this area? 0.95
00:05:19.000 So I would say, you know what?
00:05:20.000 Lauren, come back in a month's time.
00:05:21.000 Let's fix this problem.
00:05:22.000 Because how could you dare to sell you just because you are not a Muslim to tell you can't walk through that zone? 0.97
00:05:27.000 This is ridiculous.
00:05:28.000 The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, lived with the Jews and the Christians in harmony.
00:05:32.000 You have Coptic Christians in Egypt today who are living there.
00:05:35.000 Why?
00:05:36.000 Because they lived in harmony together.
00:05:38.000 They never had no problem.
00:05:39.000 Right, but this isn't about...
00:05:40.000 I understand that you can interpret your book in different ways, you can interpret your religion in different ways,
00:05:44.000 but it's about how people act now.
00:05:46.000 And I know for a fact there are certain areas where if I were to walk through there with someone like Tommy Robinson,
00:05:51.000 he wouldn't last 10 minutes and you know that too.
00:05:53.000 Okay, Lauren, I would say, I don't know you personally, yeah?
00:05:56.000 For example, Lucy is someone that, like I mentioned this a lot, the reason I mention it, yeah?
00:06:01.000 Not that I fancy Lucy.
00:06:02.000 Yeah, let me get this right.
00:06:03.000 Lucy, the reason I'm saying this is because I've messaged Lucy.
00:06:05.000 I've interacted with her.
00:06:06.000 She didn't come and say you, this, that or that, yeah?
00:06:09.000 But Lucy is a nice individual.
00:06:11.000 Now, when you get Tommy, it's like, I'm being honest, yeah?
00:06:13.000 It's like, you don't get a normal German and put Hitler together. 0.97
00:06:16.000 It's like, whoa, they're two total opposites.
00:06:18.000 That's why I always wonder, why does Lucy work with Tommy?
00:06:20.000 Well, she's doing her job.
00:06:21.000 With Tommy, Tommy was yesterday in Luton giving out leaflets.
00:06:24.000 Awudhu Billah. 0.69
00:06:25.000 That means, like, I seek refuge in God Almighty from Satan.
00:06:29.000 He's saying, Allah is gay.
00:06:32.000 This is hate preaching.
00:06:34.000 This is what Anjum Chowdhury and ISIS does.
00:06:36.000 What is the difference between Tommy and that?
00:06:37.000 You have free speech in this country.
00:06:39.000 It's different than...
00:06:40.000 Let's differentiate.
00:06:41.000 You have free speech here.
00:06:42.000 We don't have blasphemy laws.
00:06:43.000 I mean, the local people try to enforce them,
00:06:45.000 and they get the police to come over
00:06:47.000 and try to arrest Tommy and take away his leaflets.
00:06:50.000 They're doing a good thing.
00:06:52.000 They're doing a good thing.
00:06:53.000 Because if they did the same thing to Anjum,
00:06:54.000 they're doing a brilliant thing.
00:06:55.000 You know why?
00:06:56.000 Because this is what we get confused a bit.
00:06:57.000 Freedom of speech and hate speech, yeah?
00:06:59.000 There's a big difference.
00:07:00.000 If I came and said today, right now,
00:07:02.000 I hate the Jews and what Hitler did was beautiful. 1.00
00:07:05.000 Is that freedom of speech or hate speech?
00:07:07.000 It's freedom of speech.
00:07:08.000 That's hate speech.
00:07:09.000 That's the difference.
00:07:10.000 Maybe you don't know wrong.
00:07:11.000 Well, hate speech and free speech are the same thing.
00:07:12.000 No, no, no, no.
00:07:13.000 They're both speech that should be allowed.
00:07:15.000 I don't think you should be allowed to do things where you say,
00:07:17.000 I'm going to go kill someone.
00:07:18.000 I'm trying to kill someone.
00:07:19.000 I'm going to use your argument.
00:07:20.000 That's freedom of speech.
00:07:21.000 No, no, no.
00:07:22.000 Because that is a criminal act because you intend to do something
00:07:24.000 that would violate your life or property.
00:07:26.000 No, but what if I said, not directly,
00:07:28.000 I said, you know what?
00:07:29.000 It would be good if, you know,
00:07:31.000 these non-Muslims didn't exist.
00:07:33.000 That's my freedom of speech.
00:07:34.000 You know, I'm not saying you should do it,
00:07:35.000 but they should do it.
00:07:36.000 That's an opinion.
00:07:37.000 If you're saying you don't want to do it, then fine.
00:07:39.000 No, but that's hate speech.
00:07:40.000 That is the reason.
00:07:41.000 That is not hate speech.
00:07:42.000 Yeah.
00:07:43.000 Let me tell you why I am.
00:07:44.000 We might have a different opinion, yeah?
00:07:45.000 Here, we have hate speech laws, yeah?
00:07:46.000 Okay.
00:07:47.000 Now, when Tony Robinson says why Muslims kill for Islam
00:07:51.000 and don't bring a single verse,
00:07:53.000 and Darren Osborne reads that book
00:07:55.000 or goes on an iPad and watches his videos
00:07:57.000 and says, you know what?
00:07:58.000 These people are out here to kill us.
00:08:00.000 And there's these attacks that have happened.
00:08:02.000 So I need to take the matters into my own hands.
00:08:04.000 So what happens is that hate speech,
00:08:06.000 just the speech, it's just the speech,
00:08:08.000 causes some man to take action into his own hands,
00:08:10.000 same way as ISIS 0.68
00:08:12.000 and these people who run over innocent men,
00:08:14.000 women and children, what do they do? 1.00
00:08:15.000 They watch ISIS videos and be like,
00:08:16.000 these kuffar, they look like they're killing us, 1.00
00:08:18.000 they're doing this,
00:08:19.000 and they think, yeah, they're right,
00:08:20.000 they're after us.
00:08:21.000 What should I do?
00:08:22.000 Take the matters into my own hands
00:08:23.000 and I'll run people over on London Bridge.
00:08:26.000 Both are very poorly like this, yeah?
00:08:28.000 Tommy Robinson, ISIS,
00:08:29.000 and Anjum Chawji,
00:08:31.000 Anjum Chawji,
00:08:32.000 and Abu Halimah, they're on that side.
00:08:33.000 We, the British public, were here
00:08:35.000 and we're the ones suffering.
00:08:36.000 We're getting killed.
00:08:37.000 Fillsbury Park, Muslims got run over.
00:08:39.000 How many times non-Muslims got run over in the bridges?
00:08:41.000 Why?
00:08:42.000 Because of hate speech.
00:08:43.000 If we don't differentiate this...
00:08:44.000 It's not because of hate speech,
00:08:45.000 it is, it is.
00:08:46.000 The flyers that were saying Allah is gay
00:08:48.000 were a play on the Vice article that said
00:08:50.000 Jesus Christ is gay. 1.00
00:08:51.000 That's disgusting.
00:08:52.000 They were a play on that.
00:08:53.000 Even saying Jesus is disgusting.
00:08:54.000 How does that cause people to kill others?
00:08:56.000 Saying something like that.
00:08:57.000 That Vice article didn't inspire a single Christian
00:08:59.000 to run people over.
00:09:00.000 This shouldn't inspire anyone.
00:09:01.000 It is the individual who acts in such a manner
00:09:04.000 that is fully responsible for their act.
00:09:07.000 Yeah, no, you're right.
00:09:08.000 So what I'm trying to say is here this,
00:09:09.000 that Tommy Robinson doing that doesn't...
00:09:11.000 I didn't say him just giving out a leaflet
00:09:13.000 is just going to make somebody say,
00:09:14.000 you know what?
00:09:15.000 I want to go and doing this.
00:09:16.000 I'm saying...
00:09:17.000 We're looking at the matter as a whole, yeah?
00:09:18.000 Tommy Robinson for the past 10 years,
00:09:20.000 comes and says,
00:09:21.000 this book here has a hundred verses
00:09:24.000 who says kill the kuffar wherever you find him. 0.99
00:09:26.000 Okay.
00:09:27.000 And the reason why I went after him in Britain first
00:09:28.000 is because Tommy Robinson and Britain first think,
00:09:30.000 they have an open field,
00:09:31.000 they can do whatever they like.
00:09:32.000 So when I came into the scene,
00:09:33.000 Tommy, you know, he got the message very clearly
00:09:37.000 and clear cut.
00:09:38.000 You know why?
00:09:39.000 Because I said, I don't want to fight you.
00:09:41.000 I just want to discuss with you.
00:09:42.000 You claim something about my book.
00:09:44.000 So therefore now, Tommy Robinson,
00:09:45.000 he's preaching something.
00:09:47.000 He's saying, for example,
00:09:48.000 the Muslims are here to kill us. 1.00
00:09:50.000 They've been doing it for 1400 years.
00:09:51.000 They want to stay.
00:09:52.000 They want us chopped up.
00:09:53.000 Okay, good.
00:09:54.000 Now I'm getting to know you a bit.
00:09:55.000 So now you believe that.
00:09:56.000 If that's true,
00:09:57.000 then kindly as I asked Tommy Robinson,
00:10:00.000 and maybe you could surprise me today.
00:10:01.000 Can you show me a single verse that says that?
00:10:03.000 Can I show you a single verse?
00:10:04.000 I don't care about your book.
00:10:05.000 I care about how people act now.
00:10:07.000 I care about what's going on
00:10:08.000 and know those ones today.
00:10:09.000 I care about the rape games that exist.
00:10:10.000 I care about the terrorist attacks that happened.
00:10:12.000 I don't give a damn about what it says in your book.
00:10:14.000 I've seen verses for sure,
00:10:16.000 but I give a damn about how people are acting right now.
00:10:18.000 I know there are areas that I walk into
00:10:20.000 and people tell me cover your hair
00:10:22.000 because you're in danger,
00:10:23.000 but the police have laughed and said,
00:10:25.000 you have a death wish
00:10:26.000 because I've walked into certain areas.
00:10:27.000 In Luton the other day,
00:10:28.000 we were there with Tommy
00:10:29.000 and the police said,
00:10:30.000 I know you're going to get hurt
00:10:32.000 if you stay here any longer.
00:10:33.000 Okay.
00:10:34.000 And the reason that is happening
00:10:36.000 is because you guys have decided Muslims, 0.91
00:10:38.000 not every single one,
00:10:39.000 but most of the Muslims within the UK and Europe now
00:10:43.000 have decided they want to bring their culture
00:10:46.000 and how they view free speech or blasphemy laws
00:10:49.000 and they want to impose it on this nation.
00:10:52.000 I think you should be able to have your Muslim culture
00:10:54.000 and your Muslim religion in your own country.
00:10:56.000 Don't bring it to a Christian nation that has our own laws, 1.00
00:10:59.000 our own values, our own free speech.
00:11:01.000 Okay.
00:11:02.000 Firstly, you said,
00:11:03.000 I asked you for a simple verse.
00:11:04.000 I said, you claim something, yeah?
00:11:06.000 Yes.
00:11:07.000 And no offense to you,
00:11:08.000 but they say the highest form of ignorance
00:11:09.000 is talking about something
00:11:10.000 that you don't know nothing about.
00:11:11.000 So when you come and say to me,
00:11:12.000 yes, I believe what Tommy believes.
00:11:14.000 And I say to you kindly, Lauren,
00:11:15.000 can you bring me a single verse?
00:11:16.000 Sure.
00:11:17.000 I'll do it right now.
00:11:18.000 So you said, yeah, please do it.
00:11:19.000 So you come and say,
00:11:20.000 Ali, I don't need to bring a single verse.
00:11:22.000 And to be honest,
00:11:23.000 once again,
00:11:24.000 I don't want this to turn bitter
00:11:25.000 and I don't mean offense to you,
00:11:26.000 but the fact that now you're going to Google
00:11:28.000 shows your ignorance higher because- 0.54
00:11:30.000 Sorry, I don't memorize every verse.
00:11:31.000 No, no, you don't need to memorize.
00:11:32.000 It's just like the fact that you have to go to Google
00:11:35.000 to find it,
00:11:36.000 or wherever you're going,
00:11:37.000 to find a specific verse,
00:11:38.000 which you can,
00:11:39.000 because you know why?
00:11:40.000 This is the reason why I went to Tom Robinson
00:11:41.000 because all the verses talking about
00:11:42.000 are that I sent to them
00:11:44.000 and there's content.
00:11:45.000 And like you said,
00:11:46.000 we're not here.
00:11:47.000 Lauren, I'm not here to come and say to you,
00:11:48.000 Lauren, we have come to take over.
00:11:50.000 The Khalifa is going to be here.
00:11:51.000 We're taking the Sharia's coming. 1.00
00:11:52.000 Soon you're going to wear a niqab. 1.00
00:11:53.000 I'm, look, live your life.
00:11:55.000 Look, look, I'm here.
00:11:56.000 I've come to this land, yeah?
00:11:57.000 If you wanted a memorization contest,
00:11:59.000 then we could have done that.
00:12:00.000 I'm not doing a memorization contest.
00:12:01.000 You ask me for a verse,
00:12:02.000 I can get you a verse.
00:12:03.000 It shouldn't matter if I'm going to Google.
00:12:04.000 It shouldn't matter.
00:12:05.000 It's the fact that it exists.
00:12:07.000 It's totally fine, Lauren.
00:12:08.000 You can go to this.
00:12:09.000 All I'm just saying is,
00:12:10.000 is that if I'm going to talk about Christianity
00:12:12.000 or something,
00:12:13.000 I need to say, you know what?
00:12:14.000 Have I been fair?
00:12:15.000 Yes.
00:12:16.000 Am I here to have an agenda?
00:12:17.000 Look at that.
00:12:18.000 Anyways.
00:12:19.000 The wind.
00:12:20.000 Hate speech from the wind.
00:12:22.000 Yeah.
00:12:23.000 Just take that down.
00:12:24.000 Sorry.
00:12:25.000 Sorry.
00:12:26.000 Yeah.
00:12:27.000 So basically,
00:12:28.000 yeah,
00:12:29.000 so we're not here to come here
00:12:30.000 and take over and say,
00:12:31.000 look, we've come to this land, yeah?
00:12:32.000 Like you said, yeah?
00:12:33.000 We've come to this land.
00:12:34.000 When we come to this land,
00:12:36.000 it is cast as treachery for me
00:12:39.000 to conspire against this country
00:12:41.000 and say,
00:12:42.000 I'm going to take matters into my own hands
00:12:43.000 and run people over.
00:12:44.000 Why?
00:12:45.000 Because Tony Blair-
00:12:46.000 We're not talking about just running people over.
00:12:47.000 No, no, no.
00:12:48.000 We're talking about the cultural influence.
00:12:49.000 No, no, no.
00:12:50.000 What do you mean by culture?
00:12:51.000 Grooming gangs, yeah?
00:12:52.000 I've said this before
00:12:53.000 and I'll say it again, yeah?
00:12:54.000 Grooming gangs.
00:12:55.000 Let's look at these individuals, yeah?
00:12:56.000 Has any of them come and said,
00:12:58.000 I groom these girls 1.00
00:13:00.000 because my religion tells me
00:13:02.000 that they're kufar 1.00
00:13:03.000 and they're filthy
00:13:04.000 and I need to do this.
00:13:05.000 No.
00:13:06.000 They drink alcohol.
00:13:07.000 Not permissible in this town.
00:13:08.000 They go clubbing.
00:13:09.000 Not permissible in this town.
00:13:10.000 You're raping girls. 1.00
00:13:11.000 Not permissible in this town.
00:13:12.000 You know what I'm telling you
00:13:13.000 something really profound?
00:13:14.000 You...
00:13:15.000 Look, imagine this, yeah?
00:13:16.000 I'm not even allowed to shake your hand.
00:13:18.000 And we are here being accused of grooming gangs
00:13:21.000 when I can't even touch your hand.
00:13:23.000 This is a problem that is prevalent
00:13:25.000 within Muslim cultures
00:13:27.000 and Muslim communities.
00:13:28.000 And you may be different
00:13:29.000 than many of them.
00:13:30.000 You may be, but it is prevalent.
00:13:31.000 And we all know this.
00:13:32.000 We all know this.
00:13:33.000 That it is prevalent
00:13:34.000 within these communities.
00:13:35.000 And that a lot of it goes overlooked.
00:13:36.000 And when Tommy goes to the court cases
00:13:38.000 of these Muslim grooming gangs, 0.57
00:13:39.000 it's their families out there
00:13:41.000 that are screaming,
00:13:42.000 they're innocent,
00:13:43.000 they're innocent, they're innocent.
00:13:44.000 They say that a moderate
00:13:45.000 is the one who...
00:13:46.000 Muslim families.
00:13:47.000 Sorry?
00:13:48.000 The families of these rape gang members.
00:13:49.000 Yeah.
00:13:50.000 And people say all the time
00:13:51.000 that the moderate is the one
00:13:52.000 who will sit and watch
00:13:53.000 as the extremist kills you.
00:13:54.000 Of course that would.
00:13:55.000 To be honest,
00:13:56.000 if you're silenced on a matter,
00:13:57.000 you might as well...
00:13:58.000 You might...
00:13:59.000 You're part of it.
00:14:00.000 You get what I'm trying to say?
00:14:01.000 So that's why, for example,
00:14:02.000 anyone that's...
00:14:03.000 If I see somebody getting killed
00:14:04.000 and I watch it,
00:14:05.000 and I'm going,
00:14:06.000 I'm guilty.
00:14:07.000 Why can I not step in?
00:14:08.000 If you see evil,
00:14:09.000 try to stop it with your hand.
00:14:10.000 If you cannot stop it with your hand,
00:14:11.000 stop it with your heart.
00:14:12.000 I mean,
00:14:13.000 with your tongue.
00:14:14.000 And if you cannot speak out against it,
00:14:15.000 at least eat it in your heart.
00:14:16.000 Yeah?
00:14:17.000 So now,
00:14:18.000 these grooming gangs,
00:14:19.000 they're going doing this.
00:14:20.000 I have zero problem
00:14:21.000 with Tommy Robbins
00:14:22.000 going after terrorists
00:14:23.000 and grooming gangs.
00:14:24.000 The issue is,
00:14:25.000 why is it for some reason
00:14:26.000 when they are Muslim,
00:14:27.000 you love it?
00:14:28.000 I'm saying,
00:14:29.000 why don't you go after...
00:14:30.000 He doesn't love it.
00:14:31.000 Do you think he loves it?
00:14:32.000 He hates it more than anything.
00:14:33.000 No, no, no, no.
00:14:34.000 Let me tell you something.
00:14:35.000 Look,
00:14:36.000 I'm saying,
00:14:37.000 why don't we go after both terrorists,
00:14:38.000 be it Muslim or non-Muslim?
00:14:39.000 Grooming gangs,
00:14:40.000 be it non-Muslim or non-Muslim?
00:14:41.000 Peter Fowler raping little girls,
00:14:42.000 be it Muslim or non-Muslim?
00:14:43.000 The reason Tommy has to talk about...
00:14:44.000 I'm just saying,
00:14:45.000 look,
00:14:46.000 I'm not saying what he's doing is wrong.
00:14:47.000 I'm saying,
00:14:48.000 why?
00:14:49.000 Muslim.
00:14:50.000 This is what confuses me.
00:14:51.000 Why did the Jews end up getting killed?
00:14:53.000 Let me tell you.
00:14:54.000 You know what happened?
00:14:55.000 Hate speech.
00:14:56.000 Because it all started off with...
00:14:57.000 Let me tell you...
00:14:58.000 Hate speech.
00:14:59.000 Hate speech.
00:15:00.000 It doesn't work out.
00:15:02.000 It happens gradually.
00:15:03.000 Do you think you hit that team and say,
00:15:04.000 you know,
00:15:05.000 we're going to gather all the Jews together 0.98
00:15:06.000 and execute them?
00:15:07.000 No one's going to do it.
00:15:08.000 They vilified them slowly.
00:15:09.000 They put posters up.
00:15:10.000 They made them look like
00:15:11.000 these big noses
00:15:12.000 and these evil looking creatures
00:15:13.000 and they start putting tags on them.
00:15:15.000 These are the Jews. 0.90
00:15:16.000 So what happened is,
00:15:17.000 eventually,
00:15:18.000 they will vilify to a point,
00:15:19.000 when it came to the point of execute,
00:15:20.000 people ready to do it.
00:15:21.000 This is why hate speech is so dangerous.
00:15:23.000 You can say plenty of that.
00:15:25.000 I can say the mosque that you guys have
00:15:28.000 right outside of Whitechapel
00:15:30.000 that says men only in this entrance
00:15:32.000 is hate speech.
00:15:33.000 You better get rid of the mosque. 1.00
00:15:34.000 Why is that hate speech?
00:15:35.000 Because that's very...
00:15:36.000 That's unequal to women. 1.00
00:15:37.000 The fact that you won't shake my hand.
00:15:39.000 It's unequal.
00:15:40.000 Feminists would be irate. 1.00
00:15:41.000 They'd be running around naked
00:15:42.000 saying that's...
00:15:43.000 I'm sure you don't like feminists here. 1.00
00:15:44.000 You don't like feminists here. 1.00
00:15:45.000 No, I don't.
00:15:46.000 My point is that they can be...
00:15:47.000 This can be used in any context.
00:15:49.000 And the reason that hate speech is dangerous
00:15:51.000 is because who defines what is hate speech.
00:15:53.000 It's criticizing Islam hate speech.
00:15:55.000 Some people think so.
00:15:56.000 Some people think so though.
00:15:57.000 And that's the reason
00:15:58.000 Tommy has to talk about this a lot.
00:15:59.000 No, no, no, no.
00:16:00.000 Because the mainstream media
00:16:01.000 doesn't criticize Islam.
00:16:02.000 They're afraid to
00:16:03.000 because they're afraid of the repercussions.
00:16:05.000 They're afraid of the Charlie Hebdos 1.00
00:16:07.000 that are going to happen.
00:16:08.000 They're afraid of being attacked.
00:16:10.000 They're afraid of being arrested.
00:16:11.000 This has gotten to a point
00:16:13.000 where it's so restrictive
00:16:14.000 that you can't make jokes about Islam.
00:16:16.000 So that's where I have a problem with you.
00:16:17.000 It's who defines hate speech.
00:16:19.000 I would say any religion.
00:16:20.000 For example,
00:16:21.000 if you want to criticize my religion,
00:16:22.000 this is the reason why we do Dawah.
00:16:23.000 Dawah is inviting people to Islam.
00:16:24.000 Why do we do it?
00:16:25.000 Because we are out here seeing...
00:16:27.000 Ask us about our religion.
00:16:28.000 Criticizing.
00:16:29.000 Why does this say that?
00:16:30.000 Why do women have to wear hijab? 1.00
00:16:32.000 Why do women... 1.00
00:16:33.000 I'm saying...
00:16:34.000 Ask us.
00:16:35.000 But when you come and say,
00:16:36.000 you are this,
00:16:37.000 and you are that,
00:16:38.000 why are you putting your names wrong?
00:16:39.000 Ask me about my religion.
00:16:40.000 Why are you insulting me?
00:16:41.000 So when it comes to...
00:16:42.000 You said, for example,
00:16:43.000 is it hate speech
00:16:44.000 when it says men entrance,
00:16:45.000 women entrance? 0.98
00:16:46.000 So are you telling me
00:16:47.000 when you go to the toilet
00:16:48.000 and it says men's only,
00:16:49.000 are you going to come and say,
00:16:50.000 you know what?
00:16:51.000 Look at this.
00:16:52.000 It's ridiculous.
00:16:53.000 Why is it when you do sports...
00:16:54.000 I'm not going to say that,
00:16:55.000 but some people do.
00:16:56.000 Right now they're getting rid of
00:16:57.000 some of the men's and women's washrooms.
00:16:58.000 I'm saying it's who defines hate speech
00:16:59.000 that matters.
00:17:00.000 No, no, no.
00:17:01.000 Getting rid of them.
00:17:02.000 Look, look.
00:17:03.000 Me and you go into boxing.
00:17:05.000 If I say, you know what, Lauren?
00:17:06.000 Look, it's equality.
00:17:07.000 Equality is not justice.
00:17:08.000 If I say, okay,
00:17:09.000 let's have a boxing match.
00:17:10.000 It's not fair.
00:17:11.000 We're in different powers.
00:17:12.000 I don't know.
00:17:13.000 Maybe you might be stronger than me.
00:17:14.000 You never know, yeah?
00:17:15.000 I'm just saying that
00:17:16.000 we are created differently.
00:17:17.000 I agree.
00:17:18.000 So I'm sure you're against feminists as well, yeah? 1.00
00:17:19.000 Yes.
00:17:20.000 Yes, exactly.
00:17:21.000 So we're in the same chapter.
00:17:22.000 So we have something in common.
00:17:23.000 Because Allah says to us in the Quran,
00:17:24.000 you're a Christian.
00:17:25.000 Yes.
00:17:26.000 You're the people of the book, yeah?
00:17:27.000 Allah says to us in the Quran,
00:17:28.000 talk to the people of the book
00:17:29.000 with wisdom and kind words
00:17:30.000 and come to a common term.
00:17:31.000 So what I'm saying is, Lauren,
00:17:32.000 believe me,
00:17:33.000 I genuinely believe
00:17:35.000 you have this perception about us
00:17:37.000 and maybe you watch some certain things,
00:17:39.000 but I genuinely believe,
00:17:40.000 since you're talking to me,
00:17:41.000 I think it changes a lot of perspective
00:17:42.000 about how you think about Islam.
00:17:43.000 You know why?
00:17:44.000 I think about you differently
00:17:45.000 as an individual
00:17:46.000 because you are an outsider.
00:17:47.000 You are an outlier from the average.
00:17:48.000 I'm a Muslim.
00:17:49.000 I follow Islam.
00:17:50.000 I've said this to Tommy, yeah?
00:17:51.000 I'm an Orthodox Muslim.
00:17:52.000 I don't sugarcoat my religion.
00:17:53.000 I don't want to say,
00:17:54.000 hey, you know that verse,
00:17:55.000 it actually meant,
00:17:56.000 look, this is,
00:17:57.000 I'm an Orthodox Muslim.
00:17:58.000 This is how we are.
00:17:59.000 I hate to kill you.
00:18:00.000 I respect you as a woman.
00:18:01.000 If I saw anybody harassing you down the road,
00:18:03.000 I will be the first person to be there
00:18:05.000 and make sure that stops that.
00:18:06.000 That doesn't happen, yeah?
00:18:07.000 Wouldn't happen here.
00:18:08.000 No, no, no,
00:18:09.000 wherever.
00:18:10.000 No, I don't care.
00:18:11.000 Maybe at Speaker's Corner.
00:18:12.000 Yeah, there's a bit of a circus there. 0.82
00:18:14.000 What I'm saying is,
00:18:15.000 Lauren,
00:18:16.000 I have nothing against you as a person, yeah?
00:18:17.000 I genuinely believe
00:18:18.000 you're a lovely human being
00:18:19.000 who wants to do the right things,
00:18:20.000 but I believe your judgment is a bit clouded
00:18:22.000 because of the people
00:18:23.000 that you hang around with.
00:18:24.000 Let me ask you one question
00:18:26.000 because I'm sure you have things with you.
00:18:27.000 Yeah.
00:18:28.000 I think this is the most important question
00:18:29.000 of them all though.
00:18:30.000 Would you say that you are a Muslim first 1.00
00:18:32.000 or would you say you are British first?
00:18:34.000 I've said that to Tony before.
00:18:35.000 I'm a Muslim first and I'm a British.
00:18:36.000 And that's my problem with you ultimately.
00:18:37.000 No.
00:18:38.000 Why?
00:18:39.000 I think you're perfectly nice,
00:18:40.000 but that's my problem.
00:18:41.000 Why is that perfect?
00:18:42.000 Because I think that the Muslim community here
00:18:43.000 has a far higher allegiance to their in-group
00:18:46.000 than they do to overall European culture,
00:18:49.000 British culture,
00:18:50.000 the idea of the UK.
00:18:52.000 I think they have a far greater allegiance
00:18:54.000 to their own religion and their own values
00:18:56.000 and that is fundamentally going to be the split
00:18:59.000 that will happen forever.
00:19:00.000 Unfortunately,
00:19:01.000 I don't think there will ever be a time
00:19:02.000 that Islam and Western values will be compatible.
00:19:05.000 There will forever be segregated areas.
00:19:07.000 Of course, of course.
00:19:08.000 You need to understand something.
00:19:09.000 We're not going to be like...
00:19:10.000 If I said certain things to you
00:19:12.000 about the hijab,
00:19:13.000 we're not going to agree with it.
00:19:14.000 Neither am I going to agree with certain things you believe.
00:19:16.000 But this doesn't mean we depart our ways.
00:19:17.000 We have our common factors and we go with that.
00:19:19.000 So for example,
00:19:20.000 do we both agree that rape is wrong?
00:19:22.000 Yes.
00:19:23.000 Do we both agree that killing innocent people is wrong?
00:19:24.000 Yes.
00:19:25.000 Do we both agree that we should live in harmony?
00:19:27.000 No.
00:19:28.000 Do we both agree that we should live in harmony?
00:19:30.000 No.
00:19:31.000 Okay.
00:19:32.000 So that difference is now on your side
00:19:34.000 because I'm saying let's live in harmony.
00:19:35.000 You're saying let's live in harmony.
00:19:36.000 You're saying no.
00:19:37.000 So I'm going to say...
00:19:38.000 I'm saying we shouldn't be tolerant of...
00:19:39.000 I don't believe tolerance is a virtue.
00:19:40.000 I believe that tolerance is something...
00:19:43.000 We shouldn't be tolerant of intolerance.
00:19:45.000 And I think that there are aspects of your religion
00:19:47.000 that are completely incapable of mixing with Western values
00:19:52.000 and Western culture.
00:19:53.000 And you agreed with me on that.
00:19:54.000 But I'm mixing quite well.
00:19:55.000 I think I'm doing quite well in the UK.
00:19:56.000 I don't see anybody coming and saying to me...
00:19:58.000 You know what Ali?
00:19:59.000 The way you do that is not right.
00:20:00.000 Like you don't see me coming and saying...
00:20:01.000 If I was to do something like, you know, we believe in no Sharia.
00:20:04.000 This is a no gold zone area.
00:20:05.000 You're going to say, look, you're coming to my country. 1.00
00:20:07.000 And now you're setting up these areas that I can't come into.
00:20:10.000 And if this was from Islam, I would say, yeah, it's not from Islam. 0.94
00:20:12.000 So if this is not from Islam, now you're conflating a group of maniacs to Islam.
00:20:16.000 You can't do something as simple as shake my hand when we say hello.
00:20:19.000 Why do I need to?
00:20:20.000 That is something that is standard within culture here.
00:20:23.000 Now, I'm just saying.
00:20:24.000 That's one example.
00:20:25.000 There's plenty more.
00:20:26.000 What I don't want to see and what I believe is inevitable
00:20:28.000 if we keep going down the route we're going,
00:20:30.000 is a Muslim majority within the UK.
00:20:33.000 Where soon the slight differences that we have,
00:20:35.000 where we may disagree on rape, murder, other things,
00:20:37.000 at least you and I individually...
00:20:39.000 And that Islam doesn't seem to come too. 1.00
00:20:41.000 Right.
00:20:42.000 Where we may agree on those things,
00:20:44.000 once you have a Muslim majority in this country, 1.00
00:20:46.000 which I think is inevitable,
00:20:47.000 the whole culture of the UK will change.
00:20:50.000 I think we can both agree on that.
00:20:52.000 Okay.
00:20:53.000 Let's suppose that happens.
00:20:55.000 What is your solution?
00:20:56.000 Let's suppose, for example,
00:20:57.000 not that we're going to impose,
00:20:58.000 we're going to have our own way of lifestyle, for example,
00:21:00.000 that we live.
00:21:01.000 We're not going to come and say,
00:21:02.000 you be like this,
00:21:03.000 because we're living under the British rule.
00:21:04.000 Why wouldn't you?
00:21:05.000 When you're 51% of the population
00:21:06.000 and you can vote in your government,
00:21:07.000 why wouldn't you?
00:21:08.000 Well, to be honest,
00:21:09.000 then that's democracy, isn't it?
00:21:11.000 Exactly.
00:21:12.000 Exactly.
00:21:13.000 So, one second.
00:21:14.000 I'm saying,
00:21:15.000 if we come and say,
00:21:16.000 you know what?
00:21:17.000 We want this.
00:21:18.000 If we, for example,
00:21:19.000 come and want certain things,
00:21:21.000 then this is the democracy.
00:21:23.000 I'm saying,
00:21:24.000 when it comes to democracy,
00:21:25.000 I don't really believe in it.
00:21:26.000 I'm just saying you do.
00:21:27.000 So,
00:21:28.000 if a group of people,
00:21:29.000 for example,
00:21:30.000 you guys,
00:21:31.000 who conquered this land first?
00:21:33.000 You guys,
00:21:34.000 I'm not going to say you guys,
00:21:35.000 I'm going to say certain individuals did.
00:21:36.000 They came,
00:21:37.000 if you look at America,
00:21:38.000 this is what you,
00:21:39.000 I'm not going to say you,
00:21:40.000 forgive me if I'm saying you,
00:21:41.000 the group of people just came
00:21:42.000 and imposed their ideas.
00:21:43.000 It's the same thing happened.
00:21:44.000 So,
00:21:45.000 let's suppose,
00:21:46.000 if that happened,
00:21:47.000 what's going to change?
00:21:48.000 Do you think we're going to come
00:21:49.000 and start saying,
00:21:50.000 you will have your rights.
00:21:51.000 Like I said before,
00:21:52.000 Christian Jews and Muslims
00:21:53.000 live together.
00:21:54.000 The Jews can live their lifestyle.
00:21:55.000 The Christians drink alcohol, 1.00
00:21:56.000 drink alcohol,
00:21:57.000 no problem.
00:21:58.000 That's your lifestyle.
00:21:59.000 We're saying,
00:22:00.000 this is what we follow.
00:22:01.000 You want to follow that?
00:22:02.000 Yes, but what about when you're
00:22:03.000 the majority of the population?
00:22:04.000 It depends on how you all vote for,
00:22:05.000 that's fine,
00:22:06.000 you can have the Christians here,
00:22:08.000 the Jews here,
00:22:09.000 that's totally fine.
00:22:10.000 This is a misconception that you have here,
00:22:11.000 is when we,
00:22:12.000 when the Prophet Muhammad,
00:22:13.000 peace be upon him,
00:22:14.000 was in full power,
00:22:15.000 the Christians,
00:22:16.000 and look,
00:22:17.000 look at,
00:22:18.000 look at history.
00:22:19.000 There's,
00:22:20.000 I can't reference it off my head,
00:22:21.000 like I haven't memorized it as well.
00:22:22.000 There was a lot of Jews saying that,
00:22:23.000 when we lived under Islamic rule,
00:22:24.000 we were not being persecuted,
00:22:25.000 finally,
00:22:26.000 from the Christians. 0.97
00:22:27.000 We were living in harmony.
00:22:28.000 The Christians and the Jews 0.99
00:22:29.000 and the Muslims lived in harmony.
00:22:30.000 This is your area.
00:22:31.000 You want to live there?
00:22:32.000 You want to sell alcohol?
00:22:33.000 No problem.
00:22:34.000 They lived in harmony.
00:22:35.000 Look, do some research.
00:22:36.000 The only problem with what you're saying,
00:22:37.000 is you can say,
00:22:38.000 do some research,
00:22:39.000 and read about the past,
00:22:40.000 read about this,
00:22:41.000 which I have,
00:22:42.000 but I'm looking at today,
00:22:43.000 and how Islam is today,
00:22:44.000 and we can look at how Islamic countries
00:22:46.000 treat homosexuals in their nation. 1.00
00:22:48.000 We can see how that happens.
00:22:50.000 We can see how that goes down,
00:22:51.000 how it's illegal.
00:22:52.000 That happens in Jamaica.
00:22:53.000 That doesn't matter what happens in Jamaica,
00:22:54.000 it also happens in Islamic nations.
00:22:56.000 That's my point.
00:22:57.000 What I'm trying to say is,
00:22:58.000 look,
00:22:59.000 obeying the law of the land,
00:23:00.000 what that means is,
00:23:01.000 for example,
00:23:02.000 if a certain land has A, B, C, D, E, F,
00:23:04.000 you follow A, B, C, D, E, F.
00:23:05.000 If you don't like it,
00:23:06.000 bye-bye.
00:23:07.000 Now you'll say the same to me.
00:23:08.000 Absolutely.
00:23:09.000 This is our country,
00:23:10.000 okay,
00:23:11.000 if you are going to come and make no-goal zone areas,
00:23:14.000 and force us to wear the hijab, 0.88
00:23:15.000 bye-bye,
00:23:16.000 I'll say you have every bloody right,
00:23:17.000 I'll be right behind you.
00:23:18.000 I'll say, of course,
00:23:19.000 because this is your land.
00:23:20.000 And what about when Muslims are the majority?
00:23:23.000 Even if they're the majority,
00:23:24.000 I'm saying to you,
00:23:25.000 look,
00:23:26.000 at the time of the Prophet,
00:23:27.000 the Prophet had full military power.
00:23:28.000 He came and spread Islam in a peaceful manner,
00:23:30.000 not by the sword, yeah?
00:23:32.000 So when this happened,
00:23:33.000 the Prophet never came to the Jews and said,
00:23:35.000 except Islam,
00:23:36.000 we're going to cut your head off. 1.00
00:23:37.000 Christians, except Islam. 1.00
00:23:38.000 It didn't.
00:23:39.000 They lived in harmony.
00:23:40.000 They lived in harmony together.
00:23:41.000 No, no, no.
00:23:42.000 But would,
00:23:43.000 if Muslims were the majority in the UK,
00:23:44.000 would they create a government
00:23:45.000 that supported your Islamic boundaries?
00:23:47.000 I have no idea.
00:23:48.000 You have no idea?
00:23:49.000 You have no idea?
00:23:50.000 No idea at all.
00:23:51.000 You can't even take a guess?
00:23:52.000 No, no, no.
00:23:53.000 I can't take a guess,
00:23:54.000 because the thing is,
00:23:55.000 it's a hypothetical situation.
00:23:56.000 Is it?
00:23:57.000 Because I think we've seen this happen in history
00:23:58.000 time and time again.
00:23:59.000 No, no, no.
00:24:00.000 If we suppose,
00:24:01.000 if we were to do that,
00:24:02.000 we look at the Prophet,
00:24:03.000 peace be upon him, how we live,
00:24:04.000 he lives side by side with the Christians,
00:24:05.000 and the Jews, he actually lives...
00:24:06.000 But that's what you believe,
00:24:07.000 and you believe a very different thing
00:24:08.000 than a lot of Muslims act. 0.85
00:24:09.000 No, no.
00:24:10.000 This is Islam, Lauren.
00:24:11.000 No, okay.
00:24:12.000 Now, that's an individual.
00:24:13.000 There's a lot of people that look like you,
00:24:14.000 that do a lot of bad things,
00:24:19.000 but people like you...
00:24:20.000 But they identify as Muslim.
00:24:21.000 Muslim is an ideology.
00:24:22.000 No, no, no.
00:24:23.000 One second.
00:24:24.000 Just because someone identifies
00:24:25.000 themselves with something,
00:24:26.000 if my religion doesn't teach that,
00:24:28.000 it's like me driving my car
00:24:29.000 and crashing it,
00:24:30.000 and kicking my car.
00:24:31.000 Oh, it's your fault I crashed.
00:24:32.000 I'm the one who's driving it.
00:24:34.000 Does the car say,
00:24:35.000 go and run people over?
00:24:36.000 No.
00:24:37.000 We don't blame the car.
00:24:38.000 We blame the individual.
00:24:39.000 So, how is it fair for you
00:24:40.000 to come and say,
00:24:41.000 Muslims do this and this, 1.00
00:24:42.000 therefore Islam is at fault? 0.98
00:24:44.000 That's like...
00:24:45.000 Well, if I were you right now,
00:24:46.000 if I were you,
00:24:47.000 I would be spending far less time,
00:24:48.000 asking to debate me on Twitter,
00:24:50.000 far less time...
00:24:51.000 I don't want to debate you.
00:24:52.000 I don't want to debate you.
00:24:53.000 No, no.
00:24:54.000 No, no.
00:24:55.000 No, no.
00:24:56.000 I would be spending far less time on them,
00:24:57.000 and far more time
00:24:58.000 on all of the quote-unquote
00:24:59.000 fake Muslims that you say. 0.98
00:25:01.000 No, I won't say fake Muslims,
00:25:02.000 I'll say bad Muslims. 1.00
00:25:03.000 Bad Muslims. 1.00
00:25:04.000 Alright.
00:25:05.000 So, okay,
00:25:06.000 so we're on the same page.
00:25:07.000 No, no.
00:25:08.000 Of course they're Muslims.
00:25:09.000 I've never said they're not Muslim.
00:25:10.000 Just look,
00:25:11.000 if I saw someone that looks like you,
00:25:12.000 who came and started kicking this baby 1.00
00:25:13.000 on the floor,
00:25:14.000 I know, for example,
00:25:15.000 she's British.
00:25:16.000 People say you're not British,
00:25:17.000 but just because you're British
00:25:18.000 doesn't mean you're like Lauren.
00:25:19.000 Lauren won't do that, 1.00
00:25:20.000 but you are.
00:25:21.000 You're a maniac.
00:25:22.000 You're an individual person.
00:25:23.000 These individuals,
00:25:24.000 look, there's 1.8 billion Muslims.
00:25:26.000 Do the math.
00:25:27.000 Seriously, calculate.
00:25:28.000 Even mathematics is against this.
00:25:29.000 Look at the statistics
00:25:30.000 of how many terrorists there are.
00:25:31.000 Let's just cover them all together.
00:25:32.000 0.001.9%.
00:25:34.000 How could you get that mathematically
00:25:35.000 and say,
00:25:36.000 it's getting a box of apples,
00:25:38.000 one bad apple,
00:25:39.000 throw the whole thing in the bin.
00:25:41.000 Where's the logic in that?
00:25:42.000 The logic is that,
00:25:43.000 while not all Muslims are terrorists,
00:25:45.000 and we all recognize this,
00:25:47.000 most terrorists tend to be Muslims.
00:25:49.000 There's certainly a disproportionate problem
00:25:51.000 within this region.
00:25:52.000 And you look at something like
00:25:53.000 the terrorists that were in Molenbeek,
00:25:55.000 where they just walked around the community,
00:25:57.000 they lived there,
00:25:58.000 and there were so many people
00:25:59.000 that just ignored it
00:26:01.000 and saw it as fine.
00:26:02.000 They didn't report them.
00:26:03.000 That's the thing.
00:26:04.000 Well, there may be only a few people
00:26:06.000 who will do radical acts like that.
00:26:07.000 The rest will turn their way.
00:26:09.000 They'll turn their way,
00:26:10.000 and they'll say that's fine.
00:26:11.000 What do you define as terrorism?
00:26:12.000 What do I define as terrorism?
00:26:13.000 A politically motivated act
00:26:15.000 used to inflict fear.
00:26:17.000 Into? Innocent?
00:26:18.000 To innocent people, of course.
00:26:19.000 Okay.
00:26:20.000 So therefore, if we go by that,
00:26:21.000 does that mean, for example,
00:26:23.000 those...
00:26:24.000 I'm talking about state terror.
00:26:27.000 Yeah? Okay.
00:26:28.000 So does that mean, for example,
00:26:29.000 there was a study done by...
00:26:31.000 No, study.
00:26:32.000 U.S. generals who said that
00:26:33.000 the drones that we are bombing,
00:26:35.000 Pakistan and Yemen,
00:26:37.000 we are actually producing more terrorists
00:26:39.000 than we're killing on the floor.
00:26:40.000 Because what's happened is,
00:26:41.000 you're bombing innocent people, 0.94
00:26:43.000 and they're building this hatred.
00:26:44.000 And these idiots are thinking,
00:26:46.000 they're bombing us,
00:26:47.000 we'll go and do the same back to them.
00:26:48.000 So when you look at terrorism,
00:26:50.000 show me, show me,
00:26:51.000 2 million people nearly killed in Iraq
00:26:53.000 and Afghanistan alone.
00:26:54.000 I was against the war.
00:26:56.000 Okay, I know, I know, I know.
00:26:57.000 But what I'm trying to say is,
00:26:58.000 this is what breeds terrorism.
00:26:59.000 When you go to these countries
00:27:01.000 and blow them up, 0.97
00:27:02.000 and the ones who did the 9-11,
00:27:03.000 yeah?
00:27:04.000 They were Saudi national.
00:27:05.000 What the hell is it going to do with Iraq?
00:27:07.000 So I'm saying,
00:27:08.000 when you look at state terrorism,
00:27:09.000 if you're going to go by that definition,
00:27:11.000 then believe me,
00:27:12.000 USA is the biggest terrorist.
00:27:14.000 Like, I'm talking about the government,
00:27:15.000 I'm talking about the government.
00:27:16.000 I'm not talking about individuals.
00:27:17.000 They're innocent, yeah?
00:27:18.000 Because if you're going to go by
00:27:19.000 killing innocent people, 0.94
00:27:20.000 then look at this.
00:27:21.000 Look at Mao Zedong.
00:27:22.000 He killed 50 million people.
00:27:23.000 Are you going to say,
00:27:24.000 well, I was not for the wars,
00:27:25.000 and I've been against the serious strikes,
00:27:27.000 I've been against all of it.
00:27:28.000 Wait, wait, wait.
00:27:29.000 I'm like terrorists.
00:27:30.000 Terrorists will walk with a bomb
00:27:31.000 strapped to their chest
00:27:32.000 into a concert full of children,
00:27:34.000 and you're going to compare them to people
00:27:35.000 who bomb a location that has weapons,
00:27:38.000 and in most cases,
00:27:39.000 they aren't aiming for children.
00:27:41.000 They aren't specifically going for children
00:27:43.000 as their heart is.
00:27:44.000 If you're sick to me,
00:27:45.000 just repeat it back to yourself.
00:27:46.000 One is going with a bomb
00:27:48.000 and blowing himself up. 0.59
00:27:50.000 One is in the sky
00:27:51.000 and he's throwing bombs to Lauren.
00:27:53.000 One is an explosive
00:27:55.000 that kills innocent people.
00:27:57.000 One is an explosive
00:27:58.000 that's going to kill
00:27:59.000 a bit more people, yeah?
00:28:00.000 They are both disgusting
00:28:01.000 and violent in my eyes.
00:28:02.000 I don't see them as both the same.
00:28:03.000 It's not aimed for civilian targets.
00:28:05.000 Okay, but this guy can come and say,
00:28:07.000 you know what?
00:28:08.000 They're different.
00:28:09.000 Yeah, but the guy who's blowing himself,
00:28:10.000 he will probably go and say something crazy up.
00:28:12.000 He's aiming at this guy
00:28:13.000 and they will just say,
00:28:14.000 it's disgusting.
00:28:15.000 No, they don't.
00:28:16.000 They say Allahu Akbar
00:28:17.000 and they say this is for Islam.
00:28:18.000 It doesn't mean nothing.
00:28:19.000 It doesn't make it halal.
00:28:20.000 If I have a bacon sandwich
00:28:21.000 and say Allahu Akbar,
00:28:22.000 it doesn't make it halal.
00:28:23.000 It does not make it permissible.
00:28:24.000 So the issue here is this,
00:28:25.000 that terrorism is terrorism,
00:28:26.000 be it Muslim or non-Muslim.
00:28:28.000 Darren Osborne ran over people, yeah?
00:28:30.000 Okay, and he was directly influenced
00:28:32.000 by Tommy Robinson and Britain first.
00:28:34.000 They checked his iPad.
00:28:35.000 He was searching them up
00:28:36.000 before the couple of days before.
00:28:37.000 And what about the words of the Quran,
00:28:38.000 since you asked me?
00:28:39.000 What about kill them?
00:28:40.000 Persecution is worse than slaughter.
00:28:41.000 Or when you meet unbelievers, 1.00
00:28:42.000 smite their necks. 0.95
00:28:43.000 What about these words?
00:28:44.000 That's Surah Baqarah,
00:28:45.000 verse 194, yeah?
00:28:48.000 That is clearly talking about the pagans.
00:28:50.000 If you read it here, it says...
00:28:51.000 The pagans?
00:28:52.000 Yes, the pagans.
00:28:53.000 Why does that make it any better?
00:28:54.000 No, no, no, you missed the point.
00:28:55.000 This is pagan Arabs 1.00
00:28:57.000 who are attacking the Prophet.
00:28:58.000 There's a context behind it.
00:28:59.000 That's why I was loving it.
00:29:01.000 You know what?
00:29:02.000 When I went to Tommy Robinson,
00:29:03.000 I said single words.
00:29:04.000 You know what?
00:29:05.000 I applaud you for at least bringing a verse, yeah?
00:29:06.000 This is what I wanted from Tom Robinson.
00:29:08.000 He was brought, anyways,
00:29:09.000 and he wrote a book, yeah?
00:29:10.000 Now that verse you're giving is,
00:29:11.000 we're talking about military, yeah?
00:29:12.000 When Japan was coming to attack USA, yeah? 0.80
00:29:16.000 United States or America
00:29:18.000 were not just going to fall towards them,
00:29:19.000 they're going to attack them.
00:29:20.000 And the general's going to say,
00:29:21.000 wherever you find the Japanese,
00:29:24.000 kill them. 0.54
00:29:25.000 You're not going to go and say,
00:29:26.000 wherever you find them,
00:29:27.000 give them a pat on the back.
00:29:28.000 You're going to kill them.
00:29:29.000 That context is actually,
00:29:30.000 you know what it says?
00:29:31.000 Fight them and kick them out
00:29:33.000 from where they kicked you out.
00:29:35.000 So here the context is,
00:29:36.000 you do what they have done to you.
00:29:39.000 But Allah says,
00:29:40.000 Allah does not love the ones who transgress.
00:29:41.000 Meaning,
00:29:42.000 do not go to boundaries
00:29:43.000 where you kill innocent men,
00:29:44.000 women and children.
00:29:45.000 So that's talking about a certain group
00:29:47.000 who is attacking the Prophet Muhammad.
00:29:48.000 And Allah says in that specific verse,
00:29:50.000 and kick them out from where they kicked you out.
00:29:53.000 So if I can say to you,
00:29:54.000 Lauren, slap her back the way she slapped you back. 1.00
00:29:57.000 Now, are you going to be a terrorist?
00:29:58.000 No.
00:29:59.000 This specifically says,
00:30:00.000 those who disbelieve.
00:30:01.000 No, no, no.
00:30:02.000 I will strike terror into the hearts
00:30:03.000 of those who have disbelief.
00:30:04.000 So strike them at their necks 0.79
00:30:05.000 and cut off their fingers.
00:30:06.000 Yes, but...
00:30:07.000 You're talking about disbelievers? 0.99
00:30:08.000 No, no, no, no, no.
00:30:09.000 It's talking about those pagans.
00:30:10.000 They refer to that.
00:30:11.000 For example,
00:30:12.000 when America gives an order,
00:30:13.000 killed the Japanese, 1.00
00:30:14.000 is it talking about the innocent Japanese?
00:30:16.000 Or is it talking about the Japanese
00:30:17.000 that are attacking you?
00:30:18.000 See the difference?
00:30:19.000 So therefore,
00:30:20.000 when it says disbeliever,
00:30:21.000 nowhere,
00:30:22.000 not a single scholar has said
00:30:23.000 that you are allowed
00:30:24.000 to kill innocent people.
00:30:25.000 Haram.
00:30:26.000 Nowhere.
00:30:27.000 That's why I clearly said
00:30:28.000 to Tommy Robinson,
00:30:29.000 she showed me one verse.
00:30:30.000 And you know what?
00:30:31.000 I don't blame you.
00:30:32.000 Because if you brought one verse,
00:30:33.000 he was going to get...
00:30:34.000 Here's the thing though, Lee.
00:30:35.000 This is what's important.
00:30:36.000 And there's many verses.
00:30:37.000 There are many people that will point
00:30:38.000 and they'll talk about this.
00:30:39.000 They'll say,
00:30:40.000 the Bible has many verses
00:30:41.000 that are violent.
00:30:42.000 And they'll say this
00:30:43.000 and they'll go back to the Old Testament.
00:30:44.000 What is the most important
00:30:46.000 is how these verses are brought
00:30:48.000 into the real world.
00:30:49.000 How these words are brought
00:30:50.000 into the real world.
00:30:51.000 And there is a clear difference
00:30:52.000 between how Christians interpret the Bible
00:30:55.000 in the Old Testament
00:30:56.000 and how Islam is interpreting
00:30:58.000 these verses today.
00:30:59.000 You can see how it's interpreted
00:31:00.000 in Islamic nations.
00:31:01.000 How women are treated.
00:31:02.000 How women who are raped are treated.
00:31:04.000 How they're stoned.
00:31:05.000 How gays are thrown off roofs 1.00
00:31:06.000 in Islamic nations.
00:31:07.000 We can see how this plays out
00:31:09.000 when Islam is the majority 0.97
00:31:11.000 of the culture in a nation.
00:31:13.000 What I would say is that
00:31:14.000 to be honest
00:31:15.000 when a lot of people
00:31:16.000 come and say that to me
00:31:17.000 I usually tell them
00:31:18.000 you need to stop watching paranormal activity.
00:31:19.000 The reason I say that
00:31:20.000 and I'm talking about you.
00:31:21.000 The reason I say that
00:31:22.000 is because
00:31:23.000 this is the problem.
00:31:24.000 When you open TV
00:31:25.000 and see this stuff
00:31:26.000 you're like oh my gosh.
00:31:27.000 How barbaric are they?
00:31:28.000 The rights women have in Islam.
00:31:30.000 You know sometimes
00:31:31.000 I think to myself
00:31:32.000 I wish I was born a woman. 0.89
00:31:34.000 Because the honour
00:31:35.000 the woman has in Islam 0.91
00:31:36.000 the prophet said
00:31:37.000 the rights a mother has 0.99
00:31:38.000 over the father
00:31:39.000 is three times.
00:31:40.000 The prophet said
00:31:41.000 if you have two daughters
00:31:42.000 and you look after them
00:31:43.000 and you take care of them
00:31:44.000 the gates of paradise
00:31:45.000 will be open for you.
00:31:46.000 They look like they have
00:31:47.000 plenty of rights
00:31:48.000 walking around
00:31:49.000 in the black sheets
00:31:50.000 and not being able
00:31:51.000 to walk with a man
00:31:52.000 without a man.
00:31:53.000 One second.
00:31:54.000 One second.
00:31:55.000 If you have a right
00:31:56.000 this is what I really
00:31:57.000 get confused about.
00:31:58.000 If a woman has a right 1.00
00:31:59.000 to walk in a miniskirt
00:32:01.000 or whatever
00:32:02.000 she has a right
00:32:03.000 you can do whatever you like.
00:32:04.000 Not in Islamic nations. 0.99
00:32:05.000 One second.
00:32:06.000 How is it
00:32:07.000 that a woman 0.98
00:32:08.000 who chooses to cover up
00:32:09.000 is sexually 0.76
00:32:10.000 you know
00:32:11.000 she's oppressed. 0.57
00:32:12.000 I believe a woman
00:32:14.000 who has to look a certain way
00:32:15.000 for a man
00:32:16.000 is more sexually oppressed
00:32:18.000 because she is
00:32:19.000 she's forced to feel uglier
00:32:21.000 and uglier
00:32:22.000 and you need to wear this makeup
00:32:23.000 and that makeup 0.99
00:32:24.000 and you need to look this way.
00:32:25.000 It's oppression.
00:32:26.000 It's like slavery.
00:32:27.000 This is mental gymnastics.
00:32:28.000 This is mental gymnastics.
00:32:29.000 I know I like doing gymnastics
00:32:30.000 sometimes yeah.
00:32:31.000 But what I'm trying to say
00:32:32.000 is I believe every woman
00:32:33.000 is beautiful in her own way.
00:32:34.000 She should not have to change
00:32:35.000 for a man.
00:32:36.000 And my lips have to look bigger
00:32:37.000 and my eyes have to look this way
00:32:38.000 and my backside have to be like this. 0.84
00:32:39.000 We're seeing
00:32:40.000 look
00:32:41.000 Islam says 0.87
00:32:42.000 as a woman
00:32:43.000 you're a human being.
00:32:44.000 You Lauren
00:32:45.000 are a human being.
00:32:46.000 You don't need to
00:32:47.000 get into that society
00:32:48.000 and this pressure
00:32:49.000 and make you feel like
00:32:50.000 I need to look this way
00:32:51.000 I need to look L'oreal
00:32:52.000 because I'm worth it.
00:32:53.000 And all this kind of stuff.
00:32:54.000 You're a human being.
00:32:55.000 I respect you.
00:32:56.000 So when I look at you
00:32:57.000 like for example
00:32:58.000 I'm not
00:32:59.000 the reason why that's there
00:33:00.000 is it's a modest here.
00:33:01.000 Now I'm not saying that
00:33:02.000 you should do it.
00:33:03.000 I'm just saying
00:33:04.000 why a Muslim woman wear it. 1.00
00:33:05.000 So when she has that on
00:33:06.000 as a human being
00:33:07.000 I can see her face.
00:33:08.000 I'll talk to you as a human being
00:33:09.000 and what I'm trying to say.
00:33:10.000 And I'm not saying
00:33:11.000 those who do not wear it
00:33:12.000 you should not.
00:33:13.000 But I'm saying there's a lot of men out there
00:33:14.000 and a lot of men
00:33:15.000 you know
00:33:16.000 they have this weird
00:33:17.000 way of thinking
00:33:18.000 men are men
00:33:19.000 as you know.
00:33:20.000 They tend to you know
00:33:21.000 look at women and use it like 1.00
00:33:22.000 okay she looks this way
00:33:23.000 and treat it like a sexual object. 0.99
00:33:25.000 Now that's
00:33:26.000 besides the whole point.
00:33:27.000 So a woman choosing to cover up 1.00
00:33:29.000 because she wants to
00:33:30.000 that's her choice.
00:33:31.000 If she wants to cover up
00:33:32.000 and she feels modest in that
00:33:33.000 I'm going to be okay with that.
00:33:34.000 I'm saying you know
00:33:35.000 but I don't want to.
00:33:36.000 It's your choice though
00:33:37.000 and I respect that.
00:33:38.000 But that's how you feel about it.
00:33:39.000 I'm talking about
00:33:40.000 when Islam is the majority in a nation 0.95
00:33:41.000 whether that becomes law
00:33:42.000 whether that becomes something that
00:33:44.000 she doesn't have a choice to do anymore
00:33:45.000 and that tends to be the case.
00:33:46.000 No no no no no no
00:33:47.000 I've told you before
00:33:48.000 the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims
00:33:49.000 lived in harmony together
00:33:50.000 they did.
00:33:51.000 They're certainly not now
00:33:52.000 and that's what matters.
00:33:53.000 I care about reality right now
00:33:54.000 what is going on
00:33:55.000 how the world is at the moment.
00:33:57.000 You can talk about
00:33:58.000 this whole Garden of Eden
00:33:59.000 that existed at one point
00:34:00.000 you can talk about
00:34:01.000 how it should be interpreted
00:34:02.000 and what a perfect world would look like.
00:34:03.000 and I talk to so many people
00:34:05.000 in the political realm
00:34:06.000 that discuss things like that
00:34:07.000 and I'm just no longer interested
00:34:09.000 in how people want the world to be
00:34:11.000 I'm interested in how it is
00:34:12.000 because that's
00:34:14.000 once we accept how the world is
00:34:16.000 then we can fix it
00:34:17.000 and right now
00:34:18.000 Islam has a problem 1.00
00:34:19.000 within Europe.
00:34:20.000 So can we
00:34:21.000 first from the stuff that we discussed
00:34:23.000 can we both agree that
00:34:24.000 we're against rape and terrorism
00:34:25.000 and all this kind of stuff
00:34:26.000 we're against that right?
00:34:27.000 Yes of course.
00:34:28.000 So we both agree that
00:34:29.000 we are both
00:34:30.000 we hate these women gangs 1.00
00:34:31.000 we hate this rape
00:34:32.000 and terrorism that's happening right?
00:34:33.000 Of course.
00:34:34.000 So we're both on the same page Lauren yeah?
00:34:35.000 That's what I wanted to tell you
00:34:36.000 that if you look into Islam more
00:34:38.000 and understand it more
00:34:39.000 we are not here for that.
00:34:40.000 We're just here
00:34:41.000 to live our lives peacefully
00:34:43.000 in harmony
00:34:44.000 with you guys.
00:34:45.000 Did I treat you bad today?
00:34:46.000 I think you speak for yourself
00:34:47.000 and not for everyone.
00:34:48.000 You did not treat me bad.
00:34:49.000 It was quite an enjoyable conversation.
00:34:50.000 Yeah yeah yeah.
00:34:51.000 You didn't realize that
00:34:52.000 have I treated you bad?
00:34:53.000 No you haven't.
00:34:54.000 Have I made you feel like?
00:34:55.000 You refused to shake my hand
00:34:56.000 which is a slight
00:34:57.000 British proper European culture
00:34:58.000 but
00:34:59.000 I have my culture
00:35:00.000 if I say to you
00:35:01.000 can you try to my toe?
00:35:02.000 Exactly.
00:35:03.000 So I respect you know how I do
00:35:04.000 but the thing is
00:35:05.000 you know I need to go back
00:35:06.000 because I've done that.
00:35:07.000 Of course.
00:35:08.000 It was really nice talking with you.
00:35:09.000 I'm sure I hope
00:35:10.000 I hope there's something
00:35:11.000 that I've planted a seed
00:35:12.000 where you can
00:35:13.000 I would genuinely want to
00:35:14.000 please read the Quran
00:35:15.000 with an open mind.
00:35:16.000 Just get to know us Muslims
00:35:17.000 with an open mind
00:35:18.000 even our discussion today
00:35:19.000 had an impact on you
00:35:20.000 and I hope it does
00:35:21.000 because it did have an impact on me.
00:35:22.000 I don't believe you're the same
00:35:23.000 as Tony Robbins.
00:35:24.000 I believe you're a lovely individual.
00:35:25.000 You don't have that.
00:35:26.000 And same with Lucy. 0.51
00:35:27.000 I've said this again
00:35:28.000 and I'll say it again.
00:35:29.000 You two are lovely people.
00:35:30.000 You've got enough to be with Tony Robbinson
00:35:31.000 and I believe he's a hate creature
00:35:32.000 who causes hate.
00:35:33.000 And I hope you guys
00:35:34.000 will really open your eyes to that.
00:35:35.000 I think Tommy's a lovely person
00:35:36.000 but I wish you the best of luck.
00:35:38.000 Thank you.
00:35:39.000 Thank you very much.
00:35:40.000 Cheers.
00:35:41.000 Cheers.
00:35:48.000 Cheers.
00:35:49.000 Cheers.
00:35:50.000 Cheers.
00:35:51.000 Cheers.
00:35:53.000 Cheers.
00:35:54.000 Cheers.
00:35:55.000 Cheers.
00:35:56.000 Cheers.
00:35:57.000 Cheers.
00:35:58.000 Cheers.
00:35:59.000 Cheers.
00:36:00.000 Cheers.
00:36:01.000 Cheers.
00:36:02.000 Cheers.
00:36:03.000 Cheers.
00:36:05.000 Cheers.
00:36:06.000 Cheers.
00:36:07.000 andere倉erō.
00:36:08.000 Cheers.
00:36:09.000 Cheers.
00:36:10.060 Cheers.
00:36:11.000 Cheers.
00:36:12.000 Cheers.
00:36:13.000 Cheers.
00:36:14.100 Cheers.
00:36:14.960 Cheers.
00:36:15.000 Cheers.
00:36:16.000 Cheers.
00:36:16.120 Cheers.