Ali Dawah - ALI DAWAH & PANTHEIST DISCUSS ENERGY ｜｜ SPEAKERS CORNER

00:00:00.000 I don't know what it is, you're a guy with two different schools and four.

00:00:23.000 No, no, no, no, no, listen, listen, the hard problem of consciousness is something that

00:00:25.000 is metaphysical. It's something outside the realm of science. That's why it's a quantum world.

00:00:35.000 That is why it's quantum. That is why it's quantum. Let me tell you something, the reason

00:00:39.000 why I'm even talking to you is you have no basis on science. Why? Let me tell you why,

00:00:45.000 yeah? Because science is something that has limits to itself. You know what I'm trying

00:00:49.000 to say? Science can't observe things that are not metaphysical, yeah? So the reason I'm

00:00:54.000 saying is so you can understand. Because with science, your theory, tomorrow they can

00:00:58.000 come and say, we made a big mistake. All was wrong. All the argument drops on the floor.

00:01:02.000 So I'm saying with science... Yeah, but that's okay though.

00:01:04.000 Bahemia, Bahemia. Because they're trying to learn. They're trying to discover my thing.

00:01:08.000 No, no, no, but it's good, but the thing is for you guys to come and say, Ali, this, that,

00:01:11.000 and I'm like, look... As far as we know, that's what it is though.

00:01:13.000 No, no, sorry, sorry. I'm saying, Ali can come back tomorrow and say, hey, sorry, you know

00:01:15.000 that science told you that you said all your arguments on the floor? Yes. And you're just

00:01:18.000 going to be looking at me days now? No, not at all. Yes, yes. Bro, it's called learning, you

00:01:23.000 know. It's actually called learning. Let me make my point. Let me make my point. So

00:01:30.000 what I'm trying to say to you... The man who knows something, realise he doesn't know anything

00:01:33.000 at all. You know that, right? Listen, listen, listen, listen. Not if you're religious. That's

00:01:36.000 what I'm trying to say. The man who's religious thinks he knows everything. No, I never said 1.00

00:01:38.000 that. I never said that. No, no, you don't have to say it. You don't have to say it.

00:01:41.000 Look, I said before to Gary. Gary posed a few questions to me. The split experiment.

00:01:45.000 The double split experiment. Yeah. He also said to me, he also said to me, energy is eternal. Yeah.

00:01:52.000 And another thing he said to me, I can't remember where it comes to me, yeah. My first question

00:01:56.000 is, let's have a basic, okay. You believe energy always uses it. Yeah. In one way, shape,

00:02:01.000 or form. In one way, shape, or form, yeah. Okay. I'm just going to read something, yeah.

00:02:05.000 Okay. The law of conservation of energy says that, look, energy cannot be creatively destroyed,

00:02:09.000 yeah. Okay. Let's presuppose energy cannot be creatively destroyed, yeah. There is a set amount

00:02:15.000 of energy in our system, yeah. We know that, yeah. So now the question here is this, yeah.

00:02:21.000 Because Gary is saying energy is always there, and that's where we come from, is eternal, yeah.

00:02:25.000 My question is this. There is a set amount of energy in our world, in our whole world, right.

00:02:30.000 My question is, let's suppose it's one trillion, billion particles of energy. That's it.

00:02:36.000 That's it. The fact that that's there, even let's suppose it's eternal, just because it's eternal

00:02:41.000 doesn't mean it was not created, yeah. Why is there that set amount of energy, not more

00:02:47.000 or not less? I don't know. I don't know the answer. Thank you for your honesty. Thank you.

00:02:52.000 I really appreciate it, Sarah. Now you said you don't know, yeah. There's nothing to be ashamed of.

00:02:55.000 Me personally, I believe that it was created, right. But are we talking about beliefs?

00:02:59.000 Yes. Are we talking about knowing? No, no, no. Universe, universe. I can look.

00:03:02.000 With deduction and induction, we can come to a conclusion that there is a belief now.

00:03:06.000 Yeah, but are we talking about knowings or beliefs now? Huh? No, we're talking.

00:03:09.000 Do you know what I mean? That's what I want to know. Are we talking about knowings or beliefs?

00:03:12.000 Because we already agreed, last time we spoke, that your belief is subjective.

00:03:15.000 So, right, if it's subjective, we're going to talk about something we know or something we believe.

00:03:20.000 Sorry, I never said it's subjective. There's an objective truth, but there's subjective religions out there.

00:03:24.000 That's why I said there's an objective truth. According to who, though? And there's subjective religions.

00:03:27.000 That's another topic. No, no, no, no. Don't change the topic. Don't change the topic.

00:03:29.000 I'm not trying to change it. Sorry, don't change the topic. Let's stick to it.

00:03:31.000 I'm actually not trying to change it. Let's stick to this. Let's stick to it.

00:03:33.000 But you can't say that there's an objective truth. Sorry, let's just stick to this.

00:03:35.000 You can't say that. Look, Sarah, we're side of good. It's good that... Look, you say you don't know. Okay, let's...

00:03:39.000 You can't actually say that. Look, you said that, yeah? My claim is this. My claim is this.

00:03:44.000 This energy that you said you don't know why it's fixed and there's no more, no less. To me, I believe that the fact that there's a limited amount showed that there is a creator behind it.

00:03:52.000 Who set the limits? That's your belief. That's fine. You're right, you're right. Who set the limits? Yeah? This is my argument, yeah? Okay?

00:03:57.000 Come, come, come, please. Forgive me, yeah? So, the second...

00:03:59.000 I don't want to argue about belief.

00:04:00.000 You're human being true. Second thing is, this energy, I believe, yeah? I believe and...

00:04:05.000 Let's talk about what we know, bro. No, no, no. Let's stop talking about what we believe. No, no, no, no.

00:04:08.000 Alright. Let's stop talking about what we believe. Let's talk about what we know.

00:04:11.000 Okay, what we know is that this energy has no will. No, you don't know that, bro.

00:04:15.000 Has no rationality and no consciousness, yeah? No, you don't know that, bro.

00:04:17.000 You don't know that. You don't know that. Listen, listen, listen.

00:04:20.000 No, I'm telling you, you don't know that. You believe that.

00:04:22.000 Okay, I'm asking you, an energy that... Look, look, I'm telling you, an energy, a physical thing that's a little particle, has no energy, no consciousness, no rationality.

00:04:32.000 But now we go back to the two schools of thought, though. No, no, no, no, no.

00:04:34.000 Now we go back to the two schools of thought that you just spoke about.

00:04:36.000 Look, look, even if we go to... Because one will say yes, it has consciousness, and one will say no.

00:04:39.000 Where is the evidence that he does? We're going to go like this, bro. No, no, no. Where is the evidence that he does?

00:04:42.000 Did Gary go through this? Yeah. No, no, no, he did, but you know when he asked me, we're going to go like that.

00:04:46.000 I didn't know certain things I told him. I went and looked into the experiment myself, yeah? Look, this double slit experiment.

00:04:51.000 I looked into it myself, and I'll just repeat it for you guys. They block the top bit, they fire it out, you have a single, like, you know, like a marble, yeah?

00:04:59.000 When you shoot it out, when you shoot a marble through it, say you're going to have this damage at the back, one line, yeah?

00:05:03.000 What the scientists did, again, is they opened up the top, and they did the same thing, and it acted like a wave. Yes? Okay, good.

00:05:10.000 Now what the scientists did is, they start, they thought, you know what, we're shooting so many out, maybe it's doing something and acting like a wave.

00:05:19.000 So they said, let's shoot it one by one. Yes. Yeah? And even when they did that one by one, they had the same...

00:05:25.000 It still created a wave. It still created a wave, yeah? Okay. But it should have created...

00:05:29.000 Look, so the thing is, why is it that when it was shot all together, it creates a wave, when it was shot singly, it creates a wave, yeah?

00:05:36.000 Number two, what they did next is, they put an observer, they put, like, something like a measure, where is this particle going from, yeah?

00:05:42.000 Once they did that, it started to act like a particle, yeah? Now what did they do? They said, you know what, this is strange, this is, it's not making sense to us, yeah?

00:05:52.000 This is what, I was watching the video, I was bare, I was thinking...

00:05:54.000 Make sense to me. Okay. That's your claim. So what they did is, they unplugged it, yeah? But without telling the matter, yeah?

00:06:00.000 Like, hey, matter, you know, we're going to do something new, let's try it again. It acted like a wave.

00:06:04.000 Like a wave. Why? Now, my... Why? Okay, let me, I can't tell you the why. Let me explain what they said to me.

00:06:10.000 Shall I use your brain now? No, no, no, look, let me tell you something, yeah? You don't use your brain when it's created, are you telling me to use it without energy?

00:06:15.000 Like I said, I'm going to ask him now. Now you've explained it, I'm going to ask him. If something acts differently when you look at it...

00:06:19.000 Can I make my point? And it acts differently when you don't look at it, would you say that thing is conscious of when you're looking at it or not?

00:06:25.000 Of course. It's reacting to your... No, no, no. Okay, I would say that too, but he wouldn't. No, no, no, you're missing the point.

00:06:31.000 Now, I'm asking a simple question here. Why? What evidence do you have? Because the scientists, they're coming and telling...

00:06:39.000 I've got this. No, it's my evidence, right here. But you're not using this, that's the problem. No, it's right here, this is my evidence, right here.

00:06:44.000 Let me tell you why. Because... Maybe forget, man, I was saying. The scientists, the scientists, they were seeing themselves. We don't know why he's acting like this.

00:06:52.000 What scientists? Because you already quoted one. You already quoted a school of thought that said they agree with it.

00:06:56.000 One second, one second. I'm asking you, these experts...

00:06:59.000 Ali, hang on. Did you quote two schools of thought? Yes.

00:07:02.000 Did one agree that it was conscious and one agreed that it wasn't conscious? One second, one second.

00:07:05.000 No, yes or no? One was... No, no, no, no.

00:07:07.000 That they don't know what it is and one agreed that it was conscious. No, no, no, no.

00:07:09.000 Yes or no? No, no, no. One was claiming that it has to be... Energy has to have consciousness.

00:07:14.000 Right. Why were they claiming this? They were claiming that. Why were they... What you read, read it out.

00:07:18.000 No, I'll tell you why they were claiming it. Because they saw exactly what I saw. No, let me finish.

00:07:22.000 They saw it react differently when it was being observed. No, no, no. And then when it wasn't being observed.

00:07:25.000 Okay, but Sarah, no, no, no. One second, one second. One was claiming and one was... 0.97

00:07:28.000 No, no, no. One was saying, we don't know why he's doing this. We don't know, yeah?

00:07:32.000 And one was claiming. So I'm asking you, these top scientists, yeah? These top scientists that don't know, yeah?

00:07:38.000 How is it that we have Gary and Sarah coming in today and telling us it's consciousness?

00:07:43.000 And that is before, because before he brought that up, yeah? Another argument that there's a counter-objectifying it.

00:07:48.000 I'm asking you, where is your evidence that he has consciousness?

00:07:51.000 Like I just said to you, bro, like...

00:07:53.000 What's it? Based on what?

00:07:55.000 Hang on, wait, wait, wait. You know. Based on observation.

00:07:58.000 You already quoted to me. There are two schools of thought.

00:08:01.000 One says it's conscious, the other says we don't know why it's doing it.

00:08:04.000 No, no, you brought that up. Hang on, wait, wait, wait. Read it, read it.

00:08:06.000 Read it, read it, read it. No, no, you did.

00:08:08.000 No, no, I said, they decided saying, I don't know, you claim that...

00:08:10.000 No, you said there's two schools of thought in...

00:08:11.000 I never said that.

00:08:12.000 Bring that same...

00:08:13.000 I never said that.

00:08:14.000 Not in this.

00:08:15.000 I said the ones I looked into, majority, I've been looking all day, all night.

00:08:17.000 Majority, so there was some that said that.

00:08:19.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:08:20.000 The ones that I looked at, the ones that I looked at, no, no, no.

00:08:22.000 The ones that I looked at, they were saying, we don't know.

00:08:24.000 I did not see one of them coming and saying, you know what?

00:08:26.000 We think due to it doing this, and these are guys who have PhD experts in the field.

00:08:30.000 None of them, I was watching it again and again and again.

00:08:32.000 Okay, bring your quote, bring your quote.

00:08:34.000 One second.

00:08:35.000 Let's go to another point of view.

00:08:36.000 Okay, wait, wait, wait.

00:08:37.000 None of them came and said, the reason it's doing this has to be conscious.

00:08:41.000 None of them, zero.

00:08:42.000 No, I'll show you one.

00:08:43.000 Show me.

00:08:44.000 I'll show you one.

00:08:45.000 I just, I quoted it to you before.

00:08:46.000 No, no, no, no, no, show me.

00:08:47.000 Because it wasn't on camera.

00:08:48.000 No, no, no, no, no, show it to me.

00:08:49.000 I'm going to quote it, you've got it on this one.

00:08:50.000 Because you said it before.

00:08:51.000 Now, if you don't see it, people are going to think you didn't quote it.

00:08:52.000 So take it for the benefit of yourself, yeah.

00:08:53.000 You said it's anything else about consciousness.

00:08:54.000 Right.

00:08:55.000 So let me quote, let me quote.

00:08:56.000 One second, you quote it, yeah.

00:08:57.000 We're from science proves that human, we're on thecollectiveevolution.com.

00:09:00.000 Okay.

00:09:01.000 Quantum physicists discovered that physical atoms are made up of vorticles of energy that

00:09:06.000 are constantly spinning and vibrating.

00:09:08.000 Yeah.

00:09:09.000 Matter at its tiniest observable level is energy.

00:09:12.000 Okay.

00:09:13.000 And human consciousness is connected to it.

00:09:16.000 Okay.

00:09:17.000 So consciousness is connected to the matter, right.

00:09:19.000 Human consciousness can influence its behavior and even restructure it.

00:09:24.000 One second.

00:09:25.000 Consciousness can influence who?

00:09:27.000 The matter.

00:09:28.000 The behavior of?

00:09:29.000 Of the matter.

00:09:30.000 Okay.

00:09:31.000 Because it says the matter and consciousness are connected.

00:09:32.000 One second.

00:09:33.000 One second.

00:09:34.000 So matter and consciousness are connected.

00:09:36.000 Yes.

00:09:37.000 Meaning consciousness, the fact that it was being observed, it couldn't have an effect on

00:09:40.000 it.

00:09:41.000 Say again. 0.87

00:09:42.000 The fact that it was being observed, these energy particles, these matter that was fired,

00:09:45.000 the fact that it was being observed could have an effect on it.

00:09:48.000 No.

00:09:49.000 You have to understand.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, but it is matter though.

00:09:51.000 That's what I'm trying to say.

00:09:52.000 Hear me out, hear me out.

00:09:53.000 No, hang on, hang on.

00:09:54.000 I hear what you're saying.

00:09:55.000 But what I'm trying to say to you, it actually is matter.

00:09:57.000 So if matter and consciousness are connected, you're firing matter consciousness through the

00:10:02.000 slips.

00:10:03.000 Do you understand?

00:10:04.000 Don't, don't, don't.

00:10:05.000 Didn't it say that consciousness has an effect on matter, energy?

00:10:08.000 Yes.

00:10:09.000 Okay.

00:10:10.000 It can be, yes.

00:10:11.000 Okay.

00:10:12.000 One second.

00:10:13.000 One second.

00:10:14.000 One second.

00:10:15.000 One second.

00:10:16.000 What I'm saying is this.

00:10:17.000 The consciousness has an impact, some kind of external influence on the matter.

00:10:21.000 No, it can do.

00:10:22.000 Okay.

00:10:23.000 How does that, hang on.

00:10:24.000 How does that prove that matter or energy has consciousness?

00:10:27.000 It says consciousness can have an effect on the matter.

00:10:29.000 No, you're not listening, Ali.

00:10:30.000 You're actually not listening.

00:10:31.000 Either I'm not listening or...

00:10:32.000 You're not listening.

00:10:33.000 The matter that's being shot.

00:10:34.000 Yes.

00:10:35.000 Is connected to consciousness.

00:10:36.000 Do you understand?

00:10:37.000 Look, look, look, look.

00:10:38.000 Let me get this.

00:10:39.000 No, no, no.

00:10:40.000 Do you understand?

00:10:41.000 It says matter and consciousness are connected.

00:10:43.000 Okay.

00:10:44.000 I accept that.

00:10:45.000 On camera, I've accepted that.

00:10:46.000 Okay.

00:10:47.000 So hang on.

00:10:48.000 If the matter is connected to consciousness.

00:10:49.000 Yeah.

00:10:50.000 Right.

00:10:51.000 So what are you firing through the slip?

00:10:52.000 Okay.

00:10:53.000 One second.

00:10:54.000 I'm saying they are connected.

00:10:55.000 Let's...

00:10:56.000 They're connected.

00:10:57.000 I'm saying...

00:10:58.000 Me?

00:10:59.000 Scientists?

00:11:00.000 The scientists are saying your consciousness has...

00:11:02.000 Gary says this.

00:11:03.000 He says when you go and...

00:11:04.000 I was watching you at the end of the corridor.

00:11:06.000 It has an effect on the matter.

00:11:08.000 You have some kind of connection there, yeah?

00:11:10.000 But my point is, does matter have consciousness?

00:11:12.000 You're saying Ali is...

00:11:13.000 The consciousness has an effect on matter.

00:11:14.000 No, you're separating the two.

00:11:15.000 No, I'm not separating the two.

00:11:16.000 No, you're separating the other.

00:11:17.000 Hang on.

00:11:18.000 No, no, no, no.

00:11:19.000 Listen, listen.

00:11:20.000 Hang on.

00:11:21.000 Ali, Ali, Ali.

00:11:22.000 You are also matter.

00:11:23.000 Do you understand?

00:11:24.000 Okay, but...

00:11:25.000 No, but I'm saying to you.

00:11:26.000 Do you understand you're also matter?

00:11:27.000 Okay.

00:11:28.000 Okay.

00:11:29.000 Are you also conscious?

00:11:30.000 See, that's the problem.

00:11:31.000 No, I'm asking you.

00:11:32.000 Yes, I'm conscious.

00:11:33.000 Okay, so then are you conscious matter?

00:11:34.000 What do you mean I'm conscious matter?

00:11:35.000 If you're matter...

00:11:36.000 Yes.

00:11:37.000 ...and you're conscious...

00:11:38.000 Yes.

00:11:39.000 ...are you conscious matter?

00:11:40.000 No.

00:11:41.000 Because what you're saying is that you're playing...

00:11:42.000 How are you not conscious matter by chance?

00:11:43.000 No, let me tell you.

00:11:44.000 Because you're playing word games.

00:11:45.000 Firstly, you have...

00:11:46.000 No, I'm not playing word games.

00:11:47.000 Listen, listen.

00:11:48.000 You have to prove to me...

00:11:49.000 That matter has consciousness...

00:11:50.000 You prove it to yourself!

00:11:51.000 You are it!

00:11:52.000 One second.

00:11:53.000 One second.

00:11:54.000 There is a problem within that we're going to come to, yeah?

00:11:55.000 Go on.

00:11:56.000 Okay.

00:11:57.000 But what you're saying is matter has consciousness.

00:11:58.000 What you're saying?

00:11:59.000 Therefore, Ali, you're made of matter. 0.88

00:12:00.000 You have consciousness.

00:12:01.000 And I'm saying no, Sarah.

00:12:02.000 Why are you saying that?

00:12:03.000 No, Sarah.

00:12:04.000 Because you have not proved to me from the very basis...

00:12:06.000 You prove it to yourself!

00:12:07.000 No, no, no.

00:12:08.000 One second.

00:12:09.000 Sarah.

00:12:10.000 Sarah.

00:12:11.000 You have not proven to me from the very basis if you prove to me that this matter has consciousness,

00:12:14.000 not connected to consciousness, has consciousness of its own, own will.

00:12:17.000 Saying, you know what?

00:12:18.000 I'm going to do this.

00:12:19.000 I want to be a wave or I want to be a particle.

00:12:20.000 Ali.

00:12:21.000 One second.

00:12:22.000 Sarah.

00:12:23.000 You do respect.

00:12:24.000 This has been explained to you about five times.

00:12:25.000 Sarah.

00:12:26.000 And you haven't got it.

00:12:27.000 Sarah.

00:12:28.000 No, seriously.

00:12:29.000 This has been explained to you about...

00:12:30.000 Gary explained it.

00:12:31.000 I explained it.

00:12:32.000 You haven't accepted it.

00:12:33.000 Sarah.

00:12:34.000 You explain it.

00:12:35.000 We'll let the viewers do this.

00:12:36.000 I know I explained it already.

00:12:37.000 You don't worry about that.

00:12:38.000 Because I believe you didn't.

00:12:39.000 So this is the reason why you're saying Sarah...

00:12:41.000 Like I said to you.

00:12:42.000 Before.

00:12:43.000 Can I hear you?

00:12:44.000 About ten minutes ago.

00:12:45.000 Even when you get the answer, it's actually not good enough.

00:12:47.000 Sarah.

00:12:48.000 Sarah.

00:12:49.000 Matter is connected to consciousness.

00:12:50.000 This is what you're saying.

00:12:51.000 I'm saying there's matter of consciousness.

00:12:52.000 Ali, they're connected.

00:12:53.000 You're basically saying consciousness has an effect on matter.

00:12:55.000 I'm saying there's matter of consciousness.

00:12:57.000 Yes.

00:12:58.000 Evidence?

00:12:59.000 You're separating the matter.

00:13:00.000 Sorry.

00:13:01.000 Hang on.

00:13:02.000 You're separating the experiment.

00:13:03.000 I'll tell you what you're doing.

00:13:04.000 You're looking at the experiment as the observer being the consciousness.

00:13:09.000 That's what you're doing.

00:13:10.000 No, this is what you're doing.

00:13:12.000 You're looking at the experiment and you're making the observer looking at it the consciousness

00:13:19.000 that's observing the matter.

00:13:20.000 Okay.

00:13:21.000 That's what it seems like you're doing.

00:13:22.000 But does that mean matter as consciousness?

00:13:23.000 No, but what I'm trying to say to you is the matter is conscious.

00:13:26.000 Okay.

00:13:27.000 Not just the observer observing it, because if you observe it, you're still observable

00:13:32.000 conscious matter.

00:13:33.000 Sarah.

00:13:34.000 Also, because someone could observe you.

00:13:35.000 Sarah.

00:13:36.000 And you can act differently depending on someone, me observing you.

00:13:39.000 Yes?

00:13:40.000 Sarah, Sarah, Sarah.

00:13:41.000 What you're saying is, I don't want to repeat it.

00:13:42.000 Go over it again.

00:13:43.000 You're saying matter is connected to consciousness.

00:13:45.000 Okay.

00:13:46.000 Let's suppose.

00:13:47.000 But that doesn't mean matter has consciousness.

00:13:48.000 You're saying it's connected to consciousness.

00:13:49.000 All right.

00:13:50.000 Let's forget this.

00:13:51.000 Let's stop it.

00:13:52.000 I can't explain it anymore.

00:13:53.000 I'm not going to lie.

00:13:54.000 It's tiring.

00:13:55.000 It's fine.

00:13:56.000 That's how you are, yeah?

00:13:57.000 Okay.

00:13:58.000 I've explained it like five times.

00:13:59.000 No, no.

00:14:00.000 Hear me out.

00:14:01.000 Hear me out, yeah?

00:14:02.000 So, number one.

00:14:03.000 Let's suppose.

00:14:04.000 Even though you haven't proven to me that there's another side to it.

00:14:05.000 That there's these scientists who come and say, oh no, it is consciousness.

00:14:09.000 Let's suppose.

00:14:10.000 For the argument's sake.

00:14:11.000 That my scientists behind me are saying, we don't know.

00:14:15.000 Your scientists are saying, it has to be conscious.

00:14:17.000 The fact that we have this problem of them saying it is and it isn't, is a flaw in science.

00:14:23.000 How?

00:14:24.000 Because, because, because Sarah, sorry, I know.

00:14:26.000 That's the reason, Sarah, you can't come and put your reliability and get your armor to go to fight when the armor you're wearing is, bullets are going to go through it.

00:14:34.000 How?

00:14:35.000 Because, you're seeing it's consciousness with your scientists.

00:14:38.000 Let's suppose I'm seeing it's not.

00:14:40.000 The fact is this, that with science, the experiment that you're coming, they can come up to you tomorrow and say, Sarah, we made a big mistake.

00:14:47.000 Big, big, big problem.

00:14:48.000 Big problem.

00:14:49.000 No consciousness.

00:14:50.000 There was a particle there that we couldn't observe ourselves that was having influence on it.

00:14:53.000 That's very positive.

00:14:54.000 Thank you.

00:14:55.000 Thank you for your honesty, Sarah.

00:14:56.000 I appreciate it.

00:14:57.000 Thank you very much.

00:14:58.000 And I'm not trying to do this video just to, like, attack you.

00:15:00.000 No way, but I just don't understand it.

00:15:01.000 I don't get attacked you now.

00:15:02.000 My second point is this, yeah?

00:15:03.000 First, the second point is this.

00:15:05.000 Let's suppose energy has consciousness.

00:15:07.000 Okay, good.

00:15:08.000 Now, my question is going to be this.

00:15:09.000 I'm made of energy, you're made of energy.

00:15:11.000 You're made of energy, yeah?

00:15:12.000 You're made of energy.

00:15:13.000 Good.

00:15:14.000 Okay.

00:15:15.000 Each particle of energy has consciousness, let's suppose.

00:15:17.000 Okay.

00:15:18.000 Why do I have an objective consciousness?

00:15:22.000 For example, when I look at your jacket, it's a jacket.

00:15:24.000 It's a jacket.

00:15:25.000 It's a handsome guy.

00:15:26.000 It's a jacket.

00:15:27.000 Yeah, got a swagger, yeah.

00:15:28.000 Nice brown leather jacket.

00:15:29.000 Good.

00:15:30.000 Why do I have this unified consciousness of objective reality?

00:15:34.000 How do you know it's unified?

00:15:35.000 The fact that I'm doing this.

00:15:37.000 Have you changed your mind?

00:15:39.000 No, no, no.

00:15:40.000 Is this a brown leather jacket?

00:15:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:42.000 Are you going to change your mind about it?

00:15:43.000 No, but that's one thing.

00:15:44.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:15:45.000 But if you look at other aspects of life, like a girl, everything's evolving and moving.

00:15:51.000 Energy's evolving and moving and shifting.

00:15:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:54.000 So is our mind.

00:15:55.000 Your mind is evolving and shifting.

00:15:56.000 Yeah, that's feelings.

00:15:57.000 Yeah, that's feelings.

00:15:58.000 If you look at feelings, that's consciousness.

00:15:59.000 No, no, no.

00:16:00.000 Sarah, no, Sarah.

00:16:01.000 No, it's consciousness.

00:16:02.000 It's not consciousness.

00:16:03.000 It's feelings.

00:16:04.000 Sarah can come and say, you know, that girl is... 1.00

00:16:05.000 I'll be like, not for me.

00:16:06.000 I'm using my consciousness, objective consciousness to determine all of me.

00:16:11.000 Yeah, that is for me.

00:16:12.000 But I'm saying it's objective of consciousness.

00:16:14.000 This is a problem.

00:16:15.000 Because if we have energy particles that are made of one trillion energy particles, yeah?

00:16:19.000 Then why is it that these energy particles...

00:16:21.000 I don't go and say, you know what, one...

00:16:23.000 Why is it that one world unified a consciousness?

00:16:27.000 This is why I was...

00:16:28.000 Why?

00:16:29.000 You want to answer the why?

00:16:30.000 Yes, I want to know why.

00:16:31.000 Because I was reading...

00:16:32.000 You know Hamza Zoltis?

00:16:33.000 You know Hamza Zoltis?

00:16:34.000 Yeah.

00:16:35.000 He's releasing a book called Hypothesis.

00:16:37.000 And he mentioned this in his book.

00:16:39.000 He mentioned this in his book that this is the problem.

00:16:41.000 Why do we have a unified form of consciousness?

00:16:44.000 What do you mean?

00:16:45.000 What do you mean?

00:16:46.000 So hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:16:47.000 Can I, can I, can I...

00:16:48.000 Because I was going to say...

00:16:49.000 To someone else in the rainforest, they might not say this.

00:16:51.000 No, no, but they will see that it is some kind of an item.

00:16:54.000 Oh, yeah, so...

00:16:55.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

00:16:56.000 It is some kind of an item that you have on you.

00:16:58.000 You get what I'm trying to say?

00:16:59.000 This is my problem.

00:17:00.000 And I'm just going to read something quick with you guys.

00:17:01.000 Please forgive me.

00:17:02.000 Look, according to this idea like I read before,

00:17:05.000 matter contains a form of subjective consciousness.

00:17:07.000 This is what they claim.

00:17:08.000 Consciousness is an instant property of the universe,

00:17:11.000 and it plays a casual role.

00:17:12.000 Advocates of punkism include Professor David Chalmers

00:17:15.000 and Thomas Nagel.

00:17:16.000 They're supporting your idea.

00:17:17.000 Those are the ones supporting my idea.

00:17:18.000 Supporting your idea, yeah.

00:17:19.000 Since each component of matter contains consciousness,

00:17:21.000 the brain's consciousness is just an accumulation

00:17:24.000 of these components and consciousness.

00:17:26.000 One form of punkism states that all matter is conscious

00:17:29.000 in the same way humans are, yeah?

00:17:31.000 A chair, an apple, it's all conscious.

00:17:33.000 The other form of punkism asserts that consciousness contains a matter

00:17:36.000 in a basic state, also known as proto-consciousness, yeah?

00:17:39.000 There is a problem with this.

00:17:40.000 Why?

00:17:41.000 There are a number of problems with this punkism.

00:17:42.000 Firstly, this approach fails to provide an adequate metaphysical

00:17:45.000 or physical explanation of how matter contains consciousness.

00:17:49.000 Secondly, there are no examples of consciousness existing

00:17:52.000 outside of the subjective experience of a living entity.

00:17:55.000 For example, what does pain mean without an eye?

00:17:57.000 Without an individual?

00:17:59.000 What does being conscious of a thought mean without a thinker?

00:18:03.000 Yeah?

00:18:04.000 This is another problem.

00:18:05.000 These questions strongly suggest that consciousness only makes sense

00:18:08.000 with a unified conscious experience of array of subjective states.

00:18:12.000 Right?

00:18:13.000 Gary, thank you for coming.

00:18:14.000 You've missed the part here.

00:18:15.000 So, so, so...

00:18:16.000 Talk about consciousness.

00:18:17.000 One second, one second, one second.

00:18:19.000 So, this is the reason, this is the reason why you coming up to me

00:18:23.000 and saying consciousness has, energy has consciousness,

00:18:26.000 it's been there forever, all these kind of claims,

00:18:29.000 you have to look into it, then come up to me.

00:18:31.000 Because it's not fair.

00:18:32.000 You're coming to me and telling me stuff that there's no backing behind you.

00:18:34.000 You just told, you just showed me two professors backing up.

00:18:37.000 No, did you not?

00:18:39.000 One second.

00:18:40.000 No, but did you not?

00:18:41.000 Yes, I did.

00:18:42.000 No, no, yes, I did.

00:18:43.000 Let's suppose tomorrow they come and say we made a mistake.

00:18:44.000 But then it's possible.

00:18:45.000 Anything's possible.

00:18:46.000 Then how could you base your evidence?

00:18:47.000 How could you base your evidence on science?

00:18:49.000 Bro, Ali, Ali, Ali, Ali, Ali, Ali.

00:18:51.000 One second, one second, one second.

00:18:52.000 We will blind follow till we wait till tomorrow.

00:18:54.000 No, Ali, Ali, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, Ali, Ali.

00:18:56.000 No, let me explain something to you.

00:18:58.000 Yes.

00:18:59.000 All we have as human beings is our realm of what we know.

00:19:01.000 That's all we have.

00:19:02.000 Okay.

00:19:03.000 That's all we have, right?

00:19:04.000 And you're limited.

00:19:05.000 We are limited, definitely limited.

00:19:06.000 Yes.

00:19:07.000 So, if we learn something new tomorrow, we can throw the thing away that we learnt yesterday

00:19:12.000 or we thought was the right one yesterday.

00:19:14.000 Okay.

00:19:15.000 Continue on.

00:19:16.000 And that's how you progress and gain wisdom.

00:19:17.000 No, no, no.

00:19:18.000 Hang on, but you're acting as if that's something wrong.

00:19:20.000 No, no, no.

00:19:21.000 As far as we know, this is what it is.

00:19:23.000 If it changes tomorrow, then we'll deal with it tomorrow.

00:19:26.000 But as far as we know, this is what it is.

00:19:28.000 Okay, okay.

00:19:29.000 But Sarah, Sarah, Sarah.

00:19:30.000 The problem with you is, hang on, I think the problem with a religious mind is that it's 1.00

00:19:34.000 locked in to saying this is what we know forever.

00:19:36.000 No, no, no.

00:19:37.000 Hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:19:38.000 Let me speak.

00:19:39.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:19:40.000 The religious mind seems to think that they're locked in forever and it's going to be like

00:19:43.000 this forever.

00:19:44.000 And with that, there's no room for gaining more wisdom.

00:19:46.000 There's actually no room for gaining more learning.

00:19:48.000 There's actually no, there isn't.

00:19:49.000 Because you say it's Allah and that's it. 0.98

00:19:51.000 There's no other...

00:19:52.000 You're Christians.

00:19:53.000 No, that's you as well.

00:19:54.000 You're Christians.

00:19:55.000 Islam is not the same as me. 1.00

00:19:56.000 Ali, Ali, Ali.

00:19:57.000 Can we move away?

00:19:58.000 This guy is...

00:19:59.000 There's no...

00:20:00.000 Can we just move away, please?

00:20:01.000 Come, come.

00:20:02.000 No, no.

00:20:03.000 Don't worry, Gary, I'm coming.

00:20:04.000 I don't know you're coming, but you better come after you two weeks.

00:20:06.000 Gary, Gary, Gary.

00:20:07.000 You've had two weeks to research this, right?

00:20:08.000 I have, I have, I have.

00:20:09.000 You've had two weeks to research this.

00:20:10.000 There's no religious person, especially within the Abrahamic religion, who is not undecided on 0.78

00:20:16.000 that this is how it's going to be and it cannot change.

00:20:19.000 When it comes to Allah, the Quran, Muhammad, you are decided and it can never change. 0.91

00:20:22.000 Yes or no?

00:20:23.000 Yes.

00:20:24.000 Okay, so that's what I'm trying to say to you.

00:20:25.000 Hang on.

00:20:26.000 But hang on, but hang on.

00:20:27.000 That kind of thought process does not allow you to grow.

00:20:31.000 Because if tomorrow, because I've already showed you, according to me, I can find you

00:20:36.000 a flaw in the Quran.

00:20:37.000 I can find you a flaw in Islam. 1.00

00:20:39.000 I can do it.

00:20:40.000 You haven't done that yet.

00:20:41.000 I can do it.

00:20:42.000 You haven't done that yet.

00:20:43.000 But it's whether or not you accept that it's a flaw.

00:20:44.000 No, you have to show it.

00:20:45.000 No, but it's whether or not you accept it's a flaw though.

00:20:46.000 That's another argument.

00:20:47.000 Exactly.

00:20:48.000 What I'm trying to say is you are actually locked in to a school of thought that does

00:20:52.000 not want to change, evolve or anything.

00:20:54.000 That is your problem.

00:20:55.000 Listen, listen.

00:20:56.000 But that's not my problem.

00:20:57.000 I can evolve tomorrow.

00:20:58.000 Look, look, look.

00:20:59.000 I can shift to a different position tomorrow.

00:21:00.000 Look, look, look.

00:21:01.000 What I know is this.

00:21:02.000 Okay.

00:21:03.000 What you're talking about is based on scientific experiments.

00:21:06.000 Yeah?

00:21:07.000 The communism, energy.

00:21:08.000 For example, we did this double-state experiment.

00:21:10.000 Yeah, it went into a double-state experiment.

00:21:11.000 Yeah, double-state experiment.

00:21:12.000 Very much.

00:21:13.000 Very much.

00:21:14.000 Yes.

00:21:15.000 And he doesn't believe.

00:21:16.000 One second.

00:21:17.000 One second.

00:21:18.000 One second.

00:21:19.000 One second.

00:21:20.000 One second.

00:21:21.000 One second.

00:21:22.000 One second.

00:21:23.000 There are scientists out there who are taking these experiments.

00:21:26.000 Yeah?

00:21:27.000 And they're firing these things.

00:21:28.000 Some of them act like particles.

00:21:29.000 And sometimes it acts like waves.

00:21:31.000 Yeah.

00:21:32.000 But it depends when they first, like for example, when they close the top slit, it acts like a

00:21:36.000 particle.

00:21:37.000 When they open it, it acts like a wave.

00:21:38.000 When it's being observed, it acts a certain way.

00:21:41.000 And when it's not being observed, it acts like a certain way.

00:21:43.000 My problem is this. These very scientists, none of them come and see how I...

00:21:47.940 You've got it two. You've got it two professors.

00:21:51.080 Watch it, watch it, watch it, watch it.

00:21:53.620 These guys, the videos that I've watched, I've watched a couple because I thought I don't watch one and then there's another guy coming there.

00:21:59.080 Not a single one came and said that energy or this particle, this matter has consciousness.

00:22:05.160 My friend Gary and Sarah, I don't know what kind of professors there are.

00:22:08.100 Is it just me? Is it just us?

00:22:09.580 Gary, Gary and then...

00:22:10.680 Or did you quote two other professors?

00:22:12.400 I didn't quote it, you quote it.

00:22:13.700 So name them?

00:22:14.380 No, but you're...

00:22:15.040 Oh, from the book, yeah, I quote it.

00:22:16.060 Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right.

00:22:17.140 Okay, so it's not just me, Gary, is it?

00:22:18.360 No, no, no, I know.

00:22:19.180 Okay, then fine.

00:22:19.640 But I'm saying, even for argument's sake, yeah, if we were to go and say, you know what, because the ones that you quoted were claiming this without what basis.

00:22:28.080 You're claiming.

00:22:29.060 But these guys did...

00:22:30.200 It's called the double-seed experiment.

00:22:31.300 No, no, no, they did it.

00:22:32.380 And so, can I...

00:22:34.580 Before I move to Gary, can I just finish my...

00:22:36.000 It's talking about observing.

00:22:37.380 Yeah, so what I want to make, a point that I wanted to make, 0.85

00:22:41.060 is that this energy that we have, you have to have a short brain, man.

00:22:45.400 And you have to come in as well.

00:22:46.620 But here we are, here we are, here we are, here we are.

00:22:47.800 Mr. Quantum Physicist.

00:22:50.140 One second, one second.

00:22:50.800 You have to come in as well.

00:22:51.480 One second, one second, one second.

00:22:52.480 Mr. Quantum Physicist.

00:22:53.320 One second, one second.

00:22:54.380 Let's see if you're a quantum physicist today.

00:22:56.000 The point is this.

00:22:57.180 Energy, these particles, have no will, no conscience, no rationality.

00:23:00.800 Yeah?

00:23:01.240 They cannot bring forth...

00:23:02.180 You're repeating this.

00:23:02.900 Listen, listen.

00:23:03.720 This is my...

00:23:04.240 It's turned into a monologue now, isn't it?

00:23:06.940 No, no, no, no, I'm finishing.

00:23:07.600 No, it's turned into a monologue now, isn't it?

00:23:08.400 You did a monologue, you did it last week, yeah?

00:23:09.900 No, no, we did it to a monologue now.

00:23:10.420 But let me finish, innit?

00:23:11.400 All right, even if you want to come on.

00:23:12.620 No, no, I'm trying to say my point, yeah?

00:23:17.340 Okay, it can't bring forth an individual like myself, like Gary, with a little rationality,

00:23:23.860 consciousness, no offence, and as a will.

00:23:25.920 It can't.

00:23:26.880 So this is my claim.

00:23:28.120 That's why there has to be a creative, inductive and induction and deduction.

00:23:33.020 You have no way to explain to a creative.

00:23:35.340 Okay, stop.

00:23:35.740 Stop the monologue.

00:23:36.300 Let's move on.

00:23:36.860 No, let's move on.

00:23:37.420 Let's move on.

00:23:37.880 Bring Hamza, bring Hamza.

00:23:39.720 Okay, let's move on.

00:23:40.620 Now, let's do something.

00:23:41.660 Hamza, you don't need Hamza.

00:23:43.540 No, no, no, no.

00:23:44.420 It's Hamza's day today. 0.98

00:23:46.400 No, no, no, no.

00:23:46.960 No, no, you promised Hamza.

00:23:48.500 You didn't turn up.

00:23:49.520 I told him I'll be here today.

00:23:51.120 Okay, but you didn't turn up that day.

00:23:52.560 I'm here.

00:23:52.620 I'm telling you to come in.

00:23:56.080 Okay, guys, so what have we learned from the debate that I had with Sarah?

00:23:58.520 The first point, energy.

00:24:00.120 He claims that energy is eternal.

00:24:02.120 We don't believe that because it doesn't exist in the real world.

00:24:04.620 However, let's suppose we agree that energy is eternal.

00:24:08.360 Now, the question that we need to ask, and I have asked, is that, is there a set amount

00:24:11.900 of energy, which he said yes to?

00:24:13.640 Okay, if that's the case, if energy cannot be created or destroyed, why is there a set

00:24:17.540 amount?

00:24:17.920 For example, if there is one trillion particles of matter, energy, why is there one trillion

00:24:23.320 but not two trillion?

00:24:24.540 Or half a trillion?

00:24:25.940 Why is there that amount of energy?

00:24:28.020 So that shows us that energy, even though it may be eternal, it is limited.

00:24:34.080 And if it is limited, who has set this limit?

00:24:36.960 We say the creator.

00:24:37.800 So, guys, when Sarah is claiming that this double slit experiment is made, where they

00:24:42.120 shoot particles into the slit, when it's being observed by a monitor or by a measuring device,

00:24:49.300 it acts like a wave.

00:24:50.620 And when it's not being observed, it acts like a particle.

00:24:53.520 So, Sarah is coming to the conclusion and saying, we have no other option but to say it

00:24:57.560 must be consciousness.

00:24:58.340 It's making those conscious decisions.

00:25:00.000 However, we have a big problem with that.

00:25:01.580 Let's imagine I have an iPhone.

00:25:03.060 An iPhone has a Siri.

00:25:03.880 Now, when I speak to Siri and say, hello, Siri, Siri acts a certain way.

00:25:07.980 Does that mean I come to the conclusion that Siri has consciousness or is Siri programmed

00:25:13.800 to act a certain way?

00:25:15.280 Now, just the same thing with the particles that are being fired.

00:25:18.300 When it's being fired and it's being observed, it acts like a certain way.

00:25:22.720 And when it's not being observed, it's acting like a certain way.

00:25:25.820 There is a pattern there.

00:25:27.220 It's programmed to do the same thing systematically.

00:25:30.960 So, it can't be consciousness.

00:25:32.700 Consciousness, that means it should be programmed.

00:25:36.400 But programmed by who?

00:25:37.580 That's the real question.

00:25:38.660 Now, the third point, what Sarah was trying to tell us is that energy has consciousness.

00:25:42.960 Let's suppose for an argument's sake, we agree with that.

00:25:45.100 Now, the question that really needs to be asked here, brothers and sisters and dear friends,

00:25:48.500 is that if I'm made out of millions and trillions of these atomic particles and every single

00:25:53.560 one of them have consciousness and has a will and has rationality, for example, why is it

00:25:58.280 that me, myself or every human being out there has one collective consciousness?

00:26:03.480 Why don't we have trillions and billions of different separate consciousness?

00:26:08.100 This is the question that we need to ask.

00:26:09.840 Now, this is the question which they kind of got stuck on.

00:26:11.920 And they were assuming that the fact that energy was acting in a certain way when it's

00:26:17.280 being observed and in a certain way when it's not being observed, they were just saying

00:26:20.220 it could be no other thing but consciousness.

00:26:22.300 Meaning, they don't have an experiment or they don't know the particle has consciousness.

00:26:26.940 They're just saying we have no other answer, so it has to be that.

00:26:30.380 However, scientists who have done this experiment, look what they say.

00:26:33.220 So, you put a detector just above the upper slit that will flash or beep whenever it sees

00:26:41.780 an atom go through that top slit. 0.86

00:26:45.980 Sure enough, you fire the atoms through one at a time.

00:26:51.440 50% of the time, the detector will beep.

00:26:56.660 The other 50% of the time, it doesn't, the assumption being that the atom has gone through.

00:27:03.620 The lower slit.

00:27:05.240 But, of course, I've been cheeky here.

00:27:06.740 I haven't shown you the results of the experiment.

00:27:13.160 That's what you get.

00:27:15.320 50% of the time, it beeps and you see a spot arrive adjacent to the upper slit.

00:27:21.660 The other half of the time, it doesn't beep, but you see a spot arrive at the lower slit.

00:27:26.220 So, yeah, it's picked out the atoms that have gone through the upper slit and not the ones

00:27:30.320 that have gone through.

00:27:30.640 So, each atom does go through one slit or the other.

00:27:36.160 But that's a different result to what we had earlier.

00:27:40.240 So, here's the last bit of sneakiness that we can play with atoms.

00:27:44.040 Surely, now, you know, we're going to get to grips with it.

00:27:48.460 Leave the detector there, but just very quietly go and unplug it.

00:27:55.320 Don't let the atoms know that you're not spying on them.

00:27:58.320 Make them think that you're still detecting them.

00:28:01.900 Say, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, we're going to run the experiment.

00:28:03.360 Atoms, okay, get ready.

00:28:04.400 One at a time, we're going to be checking on you.

00:28:06.920 All right?

00:28:07.420 So, run the experiment again.

00:28:13.400 Now, if you can explain this using common sense and logic, do let me know.

00:28:21.520 Because there's a Nobel Prize for you.

00:28:28.320 So, I'm going to be checking on you.

Ali Dawah - October 18, 2016

ALI DAWAH & PANTHEIST DISCUSS ENERGY ｜｜ SPEAKERS CORNER

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