DID SATAN TRICK CHRISTIANS!？ - JACK & ALI DISCUSS
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the difference between Christianity and Islam in regards to the Holy Trinity and the Holy Qur'an, and the role of Satan in the creation of the Holy Bible and the Quran. We also discuss the need for a third party in order to serve as a disciple of God.
Transcript
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If God is telling us to worship him alone, Satan's job is going to be what? The whole opposite?
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Yeah, I do. So this is where we're saying maybe...
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Yeah, exactly. So do you not think, as a Muslim, that our Christian friends have fallen for the trap of Satan?
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Sure, sure. How is it that I can be good enough for God?
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Well, I can't, because God's holy mountain, in the sense of how can I be pure infinity?
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And in that sense, there's the concept of imputed righteousness.
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For example, if I was to say to you, okay, is Jesus fully God?
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So a lot of people watching this will be like, how?
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But what I would say is that, for example, because God Almighty is...
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God Almighty is the source and he's infinite and there is nothing like him.
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So what I see in Christianity is that God, man, is mortal.
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And there's something in between, which is Jesus, which is, he's man, but he's also God.
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Now, when I say Islam came, Islam has been there from day one.
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We believe from Adam, peace be upon him, to Prophet Muhammad, Islam has been there.
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In the context of Islam's main purpose is to come and tell people to stop worshipping idols and gods
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Because that's the main fundamental thing Islam has come to do.
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And what, as human beings, we do is because we worship God Almighty, and it's not something
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that we can empirically see, what happens is, as human beings, we tend to want to see...
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Like, when we're grateful to people, it's because we see them.
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We thank God, but the thing is, because we can't see him, and that is the whole test of life,
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So that's why you see a lot of people, be it the pagans, be it, for example...
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Yeah, so if you see them, for example, that what have they done?
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Oh, like the pagan Arabs would say the same thing.
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We just use these statues to get closer to him.
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If I can go through someone else who's done the job, or he's closer, this is where Satan
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Because what he does is, we want to see something empirically.
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Some people who carry certain things, like, oh yeah, for good luck.
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But as human beings, what God is telling us is, have trust in me.
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So what Islam has come to say is, look, you do not require, or it doesn't necessarily require
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Because firstly, it doesn't go with our fitrah.
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Because the Trinity, for example, if I was to say to you, okay, is Jesus fully God?
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So a lot of people watching this will be like, how?
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I mean, one can explain, I think, the necessity of these positions.
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But just as much as the Quran, and I think the Bible and the Quran both at times appeal
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I do believe, actually, the word mystery is invented by the early Christians.
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And the Bible doesn't, in that sense, claim to know the essence of God.
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It claims to, as it were, say who or where it is in Christ.
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It doesn't elucidate, like, a definition of God.
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So basically, we were saying, why do, like, Islam's main purpose was to come to tell
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mankind to worship God alone without any human statue, you name it.
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God's main essence, and what he wants from us, is that.
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If God is telling us to worship him alone, Satan's job is going to be, what, the whole
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opposite, to make, so, so this is where we're saying, maybe.
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So do you not think, as a Muslim, that our Christian friends have fallen for the trap
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of Satan, maybe, tell me if I'm wrong, that Satan has come and made it seem like,
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okay, look, we need salvation, we need someone to die for our sins, we need, so God Almighty
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And we're saying, the second commandment, the third commandment is, I, God, I'm a jealous
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I would say, maybe use, like, the back page for notes, if you want.
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So, what we're saying is, that God Almighty is telling us to worship him and him alone.
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And we believe that goes aligned with our essence, because I want to worship, for example,
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sometimes I speak to Christians, and ex-Christians who have accepted Islam, or who have left,
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they would say, one thing I didn't know was, who, okay, I ask in the name of the Father,
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I ask the Father in the name of Jesus, but okay, where does the Holy Spirit come into it?
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Okay, so it's just a bit of confusion, because what we say is, our deep essence wants to worship
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one Almighty, ask him alone, go to him alone, and that's what, as Muslims, we're just asking,
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we're just saying, let's come to common terms, that we worship God alone.
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I think, the, first of all, I think it's a good place to start, is that I, I, and, well,
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of course, I'm hesitant to speak for Christians, but in this conversation, I suppose I'm proxy
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to it, that a hatred of idolatry is, I mean, probably, perhaps the strongest, most emphatic,
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in the Old Testament, in the Old Testament, oh, very much so, and, you know, every time
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that Israel is punished, is because she, and she's depicted as the bride, as God's bride,
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I think it's Ezekiel 37, 36, is a particular example, and hence God punishes her, I mean,
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and this is, or, you know, the famous case of the golden calf in Exodus, again, that's very,
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and it shows the inclination of men, sometimes, like, oh, we need something, you know what I'm
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Yeah, yeah, I think Romans, it's Romans, either chapter one or two, embarrassing, I can't
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recall, where Paul writes, right, right, Paul writes of the proclivity of man to worship
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created things, he says, men have begun to worship things that crawl on the ground, created
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things, and God has cursed them as a result, and that's true, you know, these are things
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that Christians would share, and I think in that sense, the sentiment is honourable and
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in many ways, it's what the Jews claim to be doing now, is that they would see the worship
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of, falsely, but they would see the worship of Jesus as a kind of idolatry.
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Exactly, that's why we and the Jews, we have a common understanding, because we're both
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saying, look, they reject Jesus totally, we affirm Jesus.
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Well, well, well, yeah, you don't affirm in the way we do.
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We affirm Jesus, which we believe is a real Jesus, and you would say the same, you would
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Sure, well, it depends on what we think he said, right?
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I think the thing, so having said that, the thing to emphasise, I suspect, is why is it
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Why is it, what is the, you could say, what is the metaphysical purpose in many ways of
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And I guess one could look at it from this point of view, that one of the things that
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the Old Testament is very clear on, and that we forget, is the holiness of God, that is,
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and in that sense also the otherness of him, that if one touches God's holy mountain, one
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Isaiah says, you know, woe is me, and God appears to him in life, right?
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My eyes have seen the Lord, and, you know, I'm unclean.
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As Shakespeare writes, the more fair and crystal is the sky, the uglier the clouds, the dead
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Do you want to have a conversation with me afterwards?
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I think the thing to note, though, then, is that how, then, can anyone be saved?
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This is precisely, now, please don't interrupt me, precisely because of God's, thank you,
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precisely because of God's infinitude, his holiness, and we can argue this if I were to
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speak from just purely sort of philosophical terms.
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If God is the good, right, I would say, now, therefore, he is also infinite, right?
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If God is infinite, then, by definition, we are inadequate, right?
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Because that's the nature of any moral standard.
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Relative to the moral standard, we are inadequate.
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And, therefore, almost just on kind of quasi-mathematical terms, we can never be good enough.
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And, which means that, in order to say that anyone can be saved, one has to either posit
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a level of good enoughness, which I think Islam tacitly does, or one has to posit a kind
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And, the Christian, therefore, would say, we posit a mediator, which is to say that...
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Well, I can't, because God's holy mountain, in the sense of, how can I be pure infinity?
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And, in that sense, there's the concept of imputed righteousness, which is the notion
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of being in Christ, in a sort of prepositional sense.
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If one looks at Ephesians chapters 1 and 2, particularly Ephesians 2, verse 9, you know,
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and this is given to you, this gift from God, that you can, by grace, that no man may boast.
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Hence, again, the emphasis in Protestant denomination of a lack of works.
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Not that one shouldn't work, but the notion that, how can you reach infinitude?
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So, I guess that's, you could say, the necessity of it, and the man being made in the image
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of God, is the ontological bedrock on which this possibility can rest.
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And, again, where Islam and Christianity would differ.
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So, I think that's, I think I've made my argument.
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What you said there, it's very profound, because you deem the necessity of an intermediary
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to be the cause, because as how holy God is in his majesty, and we believe that all beautiful
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names belong to him, and because as human beings, we're sinful, and, you know, we're
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not at that level, and this is exactly the very purpose and the nature why Islam came
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down, because God Almighty is saying, there's a hadith of the Prophet, peace be upon him,
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he said, if mankind was to commit sins as high as the skies and the mountains, I will forgive
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every single one of them, as long as they do not associate partners with me.
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So, what God, in essence, is saying, is that, look, I know you're a sinner.
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There's also another hadith of the Prophet who said, the Prophet, peace be upon him, said
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that, God Almighty said to him, that, if mankind was not to sin, I will destroy them, bring
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So, is that, is God saying to me that I should sin?
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The point here is this, what God is saying is this, I know you're going to sin.
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Okay, the point here is this, I want you to acknowledge that you have a Lord that's
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So, God's saying, I don't want you to be infallible.
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From the get-go, God's not saying, I want you to be infallible.
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You're going to sin, because if he was not to sin, then you're going to be, you're going
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to be thinking like, this is what a lot of Christians attribute, Jesus was sinless.
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So, do you see, that's the reason why God wants us to be, not wants us, God knows we're
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And that's why, it's very important that God is telling us, look, you are here, I still
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You don't need to go through another day to anybody.
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So, do you see why we say that the human psyche is saying, I'm not good enough.
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How can I, his majesty, look at me, I'm a little peasant.
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Nobody, you don't need to go through into me, whoever it may be, a statue.
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Yeah, I think, I think the, I'll give you the last word.
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I think the, the key issue here would be a question of justice, which is why I think,
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I mean, it's often looked upon, nobody likes to hear about judgment and justice.
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Well, I mean, it is, it is a blessing to know that evil in the world will meet its just
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desert, because a God that doesn't judge is a God that doesn't care.
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And this is, I think, really the refutation of, you know, that the atheist argument says,
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it's so unfair that God judges, et cetera, or that God would do this, is what's the alternative?
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A God that doesn't care about justice, not particularly nice.
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The, I think the, the key thing here is that in turning to Christ and moving to live in
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him in this, in this way that I think Ephesians, I mean, it's, it's throughout the New Testament,
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but Ephesians chapter one and two illustrate, and with Christ's position, particularly clearing
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Colossians one, 15 to 20, is this idea that if one doesn't turn to Christ and woe and betide
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those that don't, and you know, when this is the, the basic task of Christians on earth
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is to point to God and his, his endless love for those that come to him, is that there
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And so the, the idea that one can be forgiven without justice being done, I think would be
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my argument for why there's judgment, not only is judgment, it's coming for those that
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But, but it's also that the sins that I committed, that I still commit, Christ is taken on the
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cross, but this is so important that he does take them on the cross, because otherwise, otherwise
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it's what, what's, what am I to say about my sin?
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So this, this is the nature of why just, and it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, an absurd
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scandal that all of the evil I've done in my life is taken on, taken on by Christ, and
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this is really, understanding that is, is, is what brings forth the, the sort of devotion
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But the thing is, forgiveness, on its own, means that judge, justice sort of dies.
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No, there'll be judgment, there'll be judgment, like, you'll be accountable, but we'll ask,
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we'll have to answer to the sins that you've done.
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But you see, how, but the thing is, I can't answer to the sins I've done, in the sense that
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I would go to hell, and, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, because
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But God, God's saying, I, you need to answer, in Islam, God, we go into paradise, is not
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If God doesn't have mercy, it's by God's mercy.
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In Islam, we have to put the actions in, but we cannot, let me tell you a very simple hadith
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There was a man who came to, he's going to be standing in front of God Almighty on the
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judgment, and he's going to say, I want to enter paradise with the good deeds that I've
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God says, okay, let's put it into the balance, to weigh it up.
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So God takes his eye, puts it in the scales, and gets all his good deeds.
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His eye outweighs all the good deeds he's done.
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Meaning, the mercy of his eye outweighs all the good deeds.
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He can never repay, he can never repay God for the very vision he has.
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So God says to him, you have to go hellfire, because we did it based on your, you said,
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Based on your good deeds, you shouldn't even be going paradise.
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So what happens is, he says, God, I'm sorry, please enter me into paradise by your mercy.
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What he acknowledges is that the works he did was good, but to acknowledge and think,
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oh, it was my good deeds, this is arrogance, because you can never pay back God for the
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So what it tells us is that we put the efforts in, we pray, but it's eventually by the mercy
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Right, I mean, we would agree that anyone that goes to heaven is purely by grace, which isn't
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to say that one shouldn't do works, but works are the result of a gratitude, of a right
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So I think, yeah, I've enjoyed this conversation.
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And yeah, we had a really nice discussion with Jack, and we both learned from each other.
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Till next time, from Salaam Corner, Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.