Ali Dawah - EX WIVES USING KIDS AGAINST FATHERS - EP 10 ｜｜ BITTER TRUTH SHOW

00:00:00.000 It came to a crunch point where I said, no, I'm not going to sign over the house to you.

00:00:03.600 That's not happening.

00:00:04.500 Then suddenly, one morning, bang, bang, bang, on my door at the police, they carted me off

00:00:09.860 to the police station, and I'd been accused of rape and child molesting of my daughter.

00:00:14.840 And once we got divorced, I knew, regardless of how I felt, what my children needed, and

00:00:21.140 that was him, regardless.

00:00:22.680 And I knew, also from my faith, what was his right, and I could not take that away from

00:00:27.240 him.

00:00:27.460 And the only problem here is a lot of women that now I coach, they are very scorned and 1.00

00:00:31.900 they're bitter, and they do want to take it out on the other person, when I'm like, you

00:00:36.520 know what?

00:00:37.160 You're hurting your child.

00:00:38.360 I got to a situation where my children suddenly were cut off from me by the mother.

00:00:42.320 She wouldn't let me see them.

00:00:44.300 If you went to these partners and said to them, do you love your kids?

00:00:47.840 Yes, I'll die for them. 1.00

00:00:48.700 Forget die for them, you're killing them. 1.00

00:00:49.960 No one wants you to die for them, you're killing them. 0.99

00:00:51.480 I didn't want him to be part of my son's life anymore, but it's only until now that I've

00:00:56.160 done the work that I realised that it wasn't about my son all the longer, it was about

00:01:01.060 me.

00:01:01.660 It was about how I felt towards him that I was inflicting onto my child.

00:01:05.820 They're not doing it by themselves.

00:01:07.260 They've got a collective behind them.

00:01:08.760 Mum, dad, brother, sister.

00:01:10.720 Friends.

00:01:10.860 Pousins.

00:01:11.380 Friends.

00:01:11.800 Friends, a lot of friends.

00:01:12.580 Friends, a lot of friends.

00:01:13.420 What struck me was, look, you identified who the real winner is.

00:01:17.460 The children.

00:01:18.480 You know, fathers, we want our sons to become like us, and they should, because that masculinity

00:01:24.120 that comes from a man can only come from a father.

00:01:26.840 A woman can never give that, no matter how much we try. 1.00

00:01:28.880 We can never fulfil the role of a father.

00:01:31.520 Men are very silent.

00:01:32.600 We don't talk about our problems.

00:01:34.260 And this is what puts us in a downward spiral that makes us go commit suicide, depression,

00:01:38.560 and all these other things.

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00:02:06.700 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, brothers and sisters and dear friends.

00:02:10.180 Hope you guys are well, inshallah.

00:02:11.280 Welcome to the Bitter Truth Show on this episode.

00:02:15.040 Before I start, I want to praise Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, the most merciful, the most just,

00:02:17.840 or praise His glory and gratitude belong to Him.

00:02:19.820 Our aim with this show, with our guests, as well, our honourable sisters and our honourable

00:02:23.900 brothers, and myself, is to help the breakdown of the family unit, which we can see.

00:02:29.140 So that's one of the reasons I started this show, and may Allah bless them, because

00:02:32.440 without the guests, there won't be a show.

00:02:34.100 So today's topic is actually something I have heard of, somehow witnessed, not myself, and

00:02:42.560 it's a disturbing issue.

00:02:44.420 And the brother who actually organised this to invite our guests, which I'm going to go

00:02:47.980 to in a minute, he's been telling me about this issue for a long time.

00:02:50.660 And I know many men who have been going through this personally, and I didn't get the chance

00:02:55.580 to do that, because I really wanted to do justice to it.

00:02:57.500 It's easy to just do a FaceTime video, but I really wanted to do justice to it by talking

00:03:01.240 to real people who are living this, in this situation.

00:03:05.020 So yeah, let's get straight into it.

00:03:06.460 Before we start, I just want to make a few things clear.

00:03:08.320 Obviously, we're Muslims, we know, of our language, we know that anyways.

00:03:11.680 Backbiting, let's be careful to backbiting.

00:03:13.340 It can be unintentional, but let's just be careful too, because we've got many other topics

00:03:16.320 which we're going to discuss, and that's it.

00:03:18.140 Other than that, disagree in a respectful manner.

00:03:21.780 You can, you know, raising your voice doesn't mean you're being rude.

00:03:24.340 It's fine if you're passionate.

00:03:25.760 Just don't raise it too high, but that's it.

00:03:28.260 So, let's start off with our guests.

00:03:30.000 Please tell us a bit about yourself, inshallah.

00:03:31.780 I'm going to give you my mic, because we've got one mic missing.

00:03:34.420 So yeah, please tell us a bit about what you do.

00:03:35.820 And, oh sorry, today's topic is basically, in a nutshell, fathers who are not able to

00:03:40.700 see their kids.

00:03:41.880 Okay, so basically, please tell us a bit about yourself, and pertaining to this topic,

00:03:47.080 what is it that you do?

00:03:49.160 As-salamu alaykum.

00:03:49.940 My name is Ahmad Raiden.

00:03:50.880 I'm a member of the Muslim Fathers Support Forum.

00:03:54.680 What we do is, basically, we help fathers get access to their children by the courts.

00:04:01.640 And we see many cases of fathers losing access.

00:04:04.900 And then we help them through, basically, the whole court process.

00:04:09.080 So, that's us.

00:04:09.740 As-salamu alaykum, my name is Gaw.

00:04:14.040 Similarly, I work with the Muslim Fathers Support Forum.

00:04:19.520 I've been involved because of my situation, and my involvement, personally, with my children,

00:04:26.480 and how I had to fight to gain access to the children.

00:04:30.800 So, I've been there, I've done that, I've got the experience, and I understand and feel

00:04:34.720 what other fathers are going through.

00:04:37.020 And this is what I want to do.

00:04:38.060 I want to contribute, you know, in supporting and helping other fathers, as well, to get

00:04:43.500 back their children.

00:04:45.080 Inshallah.

00:04:45.420 And that's one of the reasons we invited the brothers.

00:04:48.240 And, well, the sisters, they've been here before.

00:04:50.000 You can maybe give a look, inshallah, about yourselves.

00:04:51.560 Inshallah.

00:04:53.700 Hi, my name is As-salamu alaykum.

00:04:56.340 My name is Amira.

00:04:58.520 Yeah, I'm just getting into this podcasting, you know, thing.

00:05:03.760 And, inshallah, you guys will see more of me, and more of my input in femininity, and

00:05:11.300 just how to be a better person in general.

00:05:17.020 As-salamu alaykum.

00:05:17.940 My name is Aira.

00:05:19.060 I work in a school, and I'm a content creator.

00:05:23.560 As-salamu alaykum.

00:05:24.680 I'm Fahima Mohamed.

00:05:25.740 I'm a broadcaster, TV presenter, and producer, as well as a life coach, helping clients through

00:05:31.340 their issues, and this is definitely one topic that I definitely have loads of case studies

00:05:35.060 for.

00:05:36.040 And being divorced myself, gone through sort of, like, separation with children involved,

00:05:42.620 definitely want to highlight some of the positivities of when you do things in a particular

00:05:47.000 way, that it can actually work.

00:05:49.240 So, yeah, inshallah, we'll go into it.

00:05:51.300 Okay, that's fine.

00:05:51.960 Perfect.

00:05:52.220 May Allah bless you guys, inshallah.

00:05:52.980 So, just to introduce a bit of buzzers, that's the sound that it makes, but basically, if

00:05:58.660 you have an opposing view to the other side, or it can be just, you know, when you press

00:06:03.580 that, you get one chance to press it on the show, it gives you a chance of one and a half

00:06:06.840 minutes to speak, nobody can interrupt.

00:06:08.520 It's just there for that.

00:06:09.260 So, if you, somebody says something, and you just want to cut them in a respectful way,

00:06:12.920 it's, you can use that, inshallah.

00:06:14.320 So, let's get straight into it.

00:06:16.200 So, I want to hear some stories first.

00:06:18.360 So, because you guys say you have experience, and the topic in hand pertaining to fathers, we will

00:06:22.600 have a topic pertaining to also sisters where the fathers disappear from the kids' life

00:06:27.120 as well.

00:06:27.480 So, let's just be just in that as well.

00:06:28.960 But today's topic is specifically this.

00:06:30.640 What stories or things that you have gone through personally yourself, if you're comfortable

00:06:34.020 discussing, what is going on?

00:06:36.240 Like, I really want to know what is going on.

00:06:38.600 Okay, so, I'll talk a bit about my story, my journey to the Muslim Father Support Forum.

00:06:45.180 So, in 2010, I split from my then wife, and we had two children together.

00:06:49.860 And alhamdulillah, for five years after that, after we partied on good terms, I even did

00:06:55.820 the traditional thing, the Islamic thing of giving a gift as you part, which is part

00:07:00.420 of the deen.

00:07:02.020 And for five years, alhamdulillah, everything was good.

00:07:04.060 I had the kids every weekend.

00:07:05.180 They were with me.

00:07:06.440 Things were cool between me and the other party.

00:07:09.780 And that was my five years.

00:07:11.360 In 2015, I got married again.

00:07:14.760 That's when trouble began.

00:07:15.860 And then, so, one part of this is, we had an agreement.

00:07:21.140 So, we had only an Islamic marriage.

00:07:23.460 So, we had a house.

00:07:24.840 Well, it was my house, and a sharia. 0.95

00:07:27.120 I paid for it.

00:07:28.560 But I said, look, you know, what I'll do is, I'll pay this house off, and I'll give it

00:07:32.640 to the kids.

00:07:33.500 Because, obviously, generational wealth, all that, you know, I wanted them to be secure.

00:07:37.360 And that was our agreement.

00:07:40.460 And that was the agreement for five years.

00:07:42.880 So, I got married.

00:07:43.920 Then, suddenly, I receive a letter from a solicitor, her solicitor, saying that, first, she started

00:07:49.980 off with, oh, I'm going to go to Dubai and take the kids.

00:07:53.000 Then, suddenly, that switched to, well, no, I want the house.

00:07:55.700 You have to give me the house.

00:07:57.260 And I'm like, but, you know, it's my property.

00:08:00.120 You know, we've already agreed that I'm going to give this to the kids.

00:08:03.720 So, that began the process.

00:08:08.600 We had a lot of back and forth, and I'll cut that short to, basically, it came to a crunch

00:08:13.440 point where I said, no, I'm not going to sign over the house to you.

00:08:16.000 That's not happening.

00:08:17.440 You know, I'm willing to put it into a trust, so I know it goes to the kids, because that's

00:08:21.680 what we agreed.

00:08:22.760 But, anything other than that, I'm not agreeing to.

00:08:25.240 Then, suddenly, one morning, bang, bang, bang, on my door, I saw police.

00:08:29.780 They carted me off to the police station, and I had been accused of rape and child molesting

00:08:35.420 of my daughter.

00:08:39.220 Now, just to clarify, the rape allegations were of about, for 2010 time.

00:08:46.480 So, that was my journey into this.

00:08:49.540 And, basically, at the end of it was, I gave up my house.

00:08:53.020 I said, look, all right, here you are.

00:08:54.380 Take what you want.

00:08:55.140 Here you are.

00:08:56.120 Let me see the kids.

00:08:56.880 And, the words were, no, you know, you're going to have to go through court.

00:09:01.800 Now, at this point, my kids were older.

00:09:03.960 They'd been poisoned against me.

00:09:06.700 And, they don't know the truth.

00:09:08.720 And, furthermore, at the time, I had some legal advice, which I actually found out later

00:09:14.340 when I started to look into things myself, which was wrong, which was that, basically,

00:09:19.180 because there's allegations against my daughter, that my daughter would face a physical examination.

00:09:23.880 And, as a father, I couldn't deal with it.

00:09:25.820 And, I'd wake up one minute, like, nah, that's it.

00:09:28.360 Yeah, I'll do it.

00:09:29.320 I'm going to, yeah, go with it.

00:09:30.680 Then, you'd come to the evening and be like, no.

00:09:32.500 And, that was a turmoil for three weeks.

00:09:34.920 To the point, I just said, no, you know what?

00:09:37.680 As a dad, I've got to protect my daughter.

00:09:39.720 This is, this is, this is the hit I've got to take.

00:09:42.560 So, from that, that was my story.

00:09:48.000 So, I started to look into it and started to see a pattern of behaviour.

00:09:52.980 And, from that pattern, I started to help other brothers, well, just generally anybody,

00:09:57.840 Muslim, non-Muslim. 1.00

00:09:58.620 But, then, I started to slowly notice a pattern of Muslim men turning up.

00:10:04.440 And, the Muslim men experience is worse because we get the standard allegations made in court.

00:10:09.580 Yeah.

00:10:09.960 And, we get the extra of our religious beliefs as well.

00:10:13.980 Yeah.

00:10:14.320 And, these are from practicing sisters.

00:10:15.980 Double discrimination, yeah.

00:10:16.580 Exactly.

00:10:17.480 And, obviously, turning up with the earth, you know, as a Muslim man in court with the name Muhammad and so on,

00:10:23.020 it doesn't bow well in that arena.

00:10:26.040 So, we started off, basically, a Facebook page.

00:10:29.860 Started off with about three, four people.

00:10:31.620 Because, I started to create this name because we had a few Muslim brothers that was helping.

00:10:35.960 And, from that, this was a kind of, maybe in March 2020.

00:10:41.920 And, now, to the present day, we've got about 550 plus brothers, you know, Facebook forum.

00:10:47.520 What's the organisation called?

00:10:49.040 Muslim Fathers Support Forum.

00:10:50.460 We're on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

00:10:55.380 And, we've also got the webpage, which is mfsf.uk.

00:10:59.300 Okay.

00:10:59.540 If anybody needs help, they can contact us through those means.

00:11:02.480 Grab the...

00:11:03.520 Yeah.

00:11:03.960 Okay.

00:11:04.780 So, that's us there.

00:11:06.260 Okay.

00:11:06.580 So, yourself, brother, good?

00:11:08.900 Yeah.

00:11:09.360 Yeah.

00:11:09.840 Did you go through something similar like this?

00:11:11.920 I mean, to me, that's horrific.

00:11:13.620 It's horrific.

00:11:14.240 These accusations are not...

00:11:15.220 It's not a joke.

00:11:16.200 No.

00:11:17.260 But, yeah, please.

00:11:18.680 It's a very common scenario, though, isn't it?

00:11:20.700 Yeah.

00:11:20.800 I mean, mine wasn't as extreme as that.

00:11:23.500 My situation was a very simple one.

00:11:26.480 Yeah.

00:11:26.660 But, it was made complex by the system.

00:11:29.500 So, to speak, the family court system and all these agencies that get involved.

00:11:32.940 I'm so sorry.

00:11:33.500 Otherwise, no one's going to hear you.

00:11:34.560 Yeah.

00:11:34.600 There you go.

00:11:35.140 Perfect.

00:11:35.340 Yeah.

00:11:35.740 So, you know, I won't go into too much detail, but I got to a situation where my children

00:11:42.740 suddenly were cut off from me by the mother.

00:11:44.900 She wouldn't let me see them.

00:11:46.980 And the only recourse I had, really, because I wasn't involved with the MSF prior to that,

00:11:56.620 was to go through the legal route, get a solicitor who understood what the process was

00:12:01.480 and everything else.

00:12:02.560 We tried to mediate with the mother to say, look, everything was fine.

00:12:08.600 Children were living with me and the mother, you know, 50% of the time.

00:12:13.100 Let's just maintain that.

00:12:15.040 But I think the family court system and just all the various agencies, they emboldened her,

00:12:21.740 I believe, to think that, you know, you don't need to give the children back.

00:12:26.680 You can raise various false allegations and just state whatever you want.

00:12:33.540 Did you, was you accused of anything?

00:12:35.800 No need to go into detail, but...

00:12:37.180 No, I had a non-molestation order on me.

00:12:42.720 Okay.

00:12:43.000 But, I mean, really, if you look at it, it's not funny, but it's all, you know, it was laughable initially.

00:12:48.900 My initial reaction was some, you know, the statements that were made in there.

00:12:54.260 You know, you think, how do they get away with it?

00:12:56.140 But that's beside the point.

00:12:59.120 Alhamdulillah, you know, I went through the system, halfway through, I can't even remember

00:13:06.700 how we got in, kind of, in touch.

00:13:09.760 But we did.

00:13:10.380 I got in touch with the brothers.

00:13:11.840 I realised that, you know, solicitors, they're just there to prolong cases and get their paychecks.

00:13:17.300 And then the brothers came along.

00:13:18.960 They took on my case.

00:13:21.000 And we just, we just got through the various legal system.

00:13:27.760 And I managed to get my children, you know, at 50-50, which is what I originally asked.

00:13:34.060 But unfortunately, it only meant that, I mean, this isn't a big issue for me.

00:13:38.780 I ended up spending about 15,000 pounds, literally just down there.

00:13:41.860 But to me, I would do that a thousand times to get access to my children.

00:13:46.140 It's as simple as that.

00:13:46.940 SubhanAllah.

00:13:47.480 Okay.

00:13:47.800 May Allah make it easy on you guys. 0.86

00:13:48.880 So moving on to our sisters.

00:13:50.740 I don't know if you guys are experiencing, Sister Faheemah, you said you're obviously divorced.

00:13:53.900 You've got kids.

00:13:54.720 Alhamdulillah.

00:13:55.740 And I doubt you're a person who stopped your kids from seeing their father.

00:13:58.740 Please tell us a bit because I really want to know what is going through the mind of our sisters.

00:14:03.580 I mean, these are Muslim sisters who are supposed to be God-fearing, who are, it's a form of dhulm. 1.00

00:14:10.220 And to cut kinship is a major sin.

00:14:12.780 It is a major sin.

00:14:13.660 It is, to cut kinship is a major sin.

00:14:16.300 So from a sister's perspective, Sister Faheemah, maybe you guys and the rest as well,

00:14:20.020 can you please tell us a bit about what is going through their mind?

00:14:22.760 Because to me, I see some trigger points of he got married again.

00:14:25.880 He got divorced and then he got another wife.

00:14:28.620 I'm being honest, and I hear this a lot.

00:14:30.880 Please enlighten us, maybe, inshallah, please.

00:14:33.580 Um, I can see it from a lot of perspectives because aside from my own, obviously I coach clients,

00:14:41.480 but I did that after I was divorced and I actually worked on myself and my home.

00:14:47.180 So I was, you know, a traditional wife and stayed at home.

00:14:50.380 And unfortunately, my ex-husband found that boring after a while and wanted to go elsewhere.

00:14:55.580 But we are both single.

00:14:57.660 He hasn't moved on.

00:14:58.720 And once we got divorced, I knew, regardless of how I felt, what my children needed, and that was him, regardless.

00:15:07.640 And I knew, also from my faith, what was his right, and I could not take that away from him.

00:15:13.200 And the only problem here is a lot of women that now I coach, they are very scorned and they're bitter. 1.00

00:15:18.620 And they do want to take it out on the other person when I'm like, you know what, you're hurting your child, more importantly.

00:15:25.880 So I feel that, you know, me, I'm very blessed and I'm very lucky because even now my ex and I co-parent extremely well.

00:15:32.540 We have an amazing relationship, regardless of how we ended, because I make sure that he is involved with the kids, not because of me, but because of them.

00:15:41.060 And I had to put myself aside no matter what I felt.

00:15:44.600 And now we have such an amazing dynamic, probably better than most people that are even married, because I created that.

00:15:50.340 Because firstly, I had to think about what was my responsibility as a mother for my two boys and what they needed.

00:15:57.520 And even though the father at the time was also like not happy about, you know, the situation as to being separated and, you know, not being there emotionally, I pulled him towards them.

00:16:10.460 I pulled him towards them and I pulled them towards him when they felt even uncomfortable, because I knew that that's what I had to build.

00:16:17.700 And when I have clients now that go through this, I'm like, forget your feelings because the relationship is done.

00:16:24.140 But what's important and you have to take responsibility is those children, Islamically and psychologically. 1.00

00:16:30.860 They're the ones that's going to suffer because you can move on even to a second wife or a husband or whatever, but they have to come first. 1.00

00:16:38.160 And that's generational what they're going to go through.

00:16:40.940 So I really do come on really strong on women as well, because when a woman is scorned, they don't see nothing.

00:16:46.780 And I'm the first one to call them out to say, you know what?

00:16:49.060 You need to stand back and you need to realize that no matter what that person did to you, even if it was abuse, you have to do it in the proper way.

00:16:57.240 But he still has some sort of access if it's through the courts, whether it's like through, you know, some sort of like access through, you know, what's it called?

00:17:05.960 Where you have to have.

00:17:06.960 Yeah.

00:17:07.520 So basically, you know, you have to do something where it's like, you know, a sort of a medium that's there, but they still need that.

00:17:14.240 So I really am passionate about this topic and I am successful with my coaching because I had to do it myself for my home.

00:17:21.820 And if I wasn't on point with my ex, with my children and mashallah, you know, they are so good with their mindset, having both of us and having the best of both worlds, because even though it was difficult for me to deal with, it was something that I had to do.

00:17:36.600 And yes, OK, he did not get married again.

00:17:38.700 He's still not married again.

00:17:39.700 Maybe that could have caused issues. 0.52

00:17:41.660 But the way I think, to be honest, I would say as long as the second wife was good to my children, they have a second person to turn to. 0.93

00:17:50.060 You really have to lower yourself.

00:17:51.600 And we don't do that.

00:17:52.900 We don't do that because we just get jealous.

00:17:55.120 We want to be the one on top.

00:17:56.740 We want to be to get back and all of these things.

00:17:59.260 And it really does not serve anyone, least of all your children.

00:18:02.300 So I'm thinking that, you know, hopefully with this podcast and people always, you know, assume the way I speak as well is from my own experience, but they don't know my experience.

00:18:10.660 My experience is actually quite unique.

00:18:12.300 And the reason why I talk in certain ways, which is maybe controversial, is because I hear so many case studies every single day from so many different people.

00:18:19.820 So I'm the voice of the voiceless, even if it's not my scenario, if it's not my situation.

00:18:24.260 And I see both sides.

00:18:25.520 And I've had a lot of men come recently to me telling me how their wives have stopped their children.

00:18:30.580 And I am really, really disappointed. 0.98

00:18:32.460 These are Muslim women who are destroying their future children. 1.00

00:18:37.400 That's what they're doing. 0.97

00:18:38.740 I mean, in this show, may Allah bless Sister Fahima.

00:18:42.000 You know, sometimes people, I look at the comment section and they say, you know, sometimes, I want to say they don't like you.

00:18:46.760 May Allah bless you, you know, like there's contributions you do.

00:18:49.820 But I mean, I have to put, I mean, I have to salute you.

00:18:52.660 And it's to me, it's something to be admired.

00:18:55.820 Like what you just said there, I was like, wow.

00:18:58.880 It's absolutely refreshing for us to hear that as well.

00:19:01.360 You know, exactly what you've kind of pitched out, you actually nailed it.

00:19:07.200 Because that's the person you're hurting the most, is the child.

00:19:11.220 When a child's not having access to their, you know, there's studies that show that actually single parent homes, you know, children tend to go off the rails.

00:19:18.320 You know, and when they grow up, they grow with sort of anxieties and issues, which is problematic.

00:19:24.660 And that's, you know, that's what we've got to tackle here.

00:19:28.620 Because what we're doing here through this, when we're going down this particular path, making father not see, there are some mothers that don't get to see their children as well.

00:19:36.200 So, you know, we know about that.

00:19:38.120 Yeah.

00:19:38.520 But when you do things like that, what you're doing, you're just destroying the ummah.

00:19:42.940 That's it.

00:19:43.340 Simple as that.

00:19:44.120 And credit to you, sister.

00:19:45.040 You know what?

00:19:46.080 It's really good to hear a good co-parenting story.

00:19:49.000 Really, it's a rarity, in all honesty.

00:19:51.520 My case is rarity.

00:19:52.540 I was speechless.

00:19:53.320 I'll be honest with you.

00:19:53.820 Like, not that I doubted the sister, but, you know, but to me, it's like, wow, because I've heard so many stories, yeah.

00:20:00.540 It's refreshing.

00:20:01.620 It's refreshing.

00:20:02.020 But even after, we've got so many cases where when brothers do get access, like, you've fought through court, you think, right, I've come to the end of it.

00:20:09.680 Let the peace and just the happiness begin for the kids and that.

00:20:13.540 But no, it ramps up 10 times more.

00:20:16.020 And you're just like, as Brother Matthew was saying, you know, then she's not turning up, then you've got to do C79 application, you've got to go to court, this, that, you know, don't do it again, dear.

00:20:25.160 And that's it.

00:20:26.440 And, you know, it's these are the things.

00:20:28.400 And like he says, the bandwidth gets evaporated.

00:20:31.940 And then, you know.

00:20:32.460 A lot of women feel pain and they just don't know how to channel, you know, channel that kind of pain. 1.00

00:20:37.520 So I worked on myself and I knew, and also I know my deed.

00:20:41.540 I know my faith very well.

00:20:43.060 I could not keep my, you know, exes away from, you know, his kids, nor could I keep my kids away from their father.

00:20:50.940 They need that so importantly.

00:20:53.000 They need both parents there.

00:20:54.660 And especially after divorce, I have proven I've broken the boundaries to show that it can actually work.

00:20:59.780 It really can.

00:21:01.080 And when you hold yourself back in that way, subhanAllah, so many opportunities and things come to you because of you, you know, lowering yourself. 0.85

00:21:08.280 Of course, when there's abuse and things like that, you go through the specific ways of, you know, dealing with that.

00:21:13.260 Those are extreme cases.

00:21:14.400 But majority of the time, it's just because she's really scorned.

00:21:17.360 Yeah.

00:21:17.600 Yeah.

00:21:17.940 And you know what?

00:21:18.300 That's a topic within itself.

00:21:19.240 You know that I'm trying to analyze, yeah, and diagnose.

00:21:22.560 And I have a theory, which we can maybe discuss in a different topic, where this is stemming from.

00:21:26.800 This, why is sisters like so bitter and angry when it comes to divorce, et cetera, which we'll discuss in another topic. 0.99

00:21:32.720 But Sister Ira and Sister Amira, is there anything you would like to add on?

00:21:35.160 Yeah, I do actually want to add something.

00:21:38.960 I believe it's genuinely stemming from the fundamentals of what we are teaching our children.

00:21:48.820 So the way women are raised in certain cultures, especially within the subcontinent,

00:21:57.740 we have this ideology that our children belong to us.

00:22:03.380 And we do not belong to us.

00:22:05.520 We belong to the creator.

00:22:07.340 So even with issues of, you know, oh, no, you cannot marry this person.

00:22:13.400 You cannot marry this.

00:22:14.780 Your children are picking up on these things.

00:22:17.400 And when they do end up getting married and divorcing, then they have this, also they have this entitlement to their own children.

00:22:25.760 My child is mine.

00:22:27.320 And they don't realize that actually, no, it's in a union.

00:22:30.640 It's a relationship.

00:22:33.380 You cannot withhold an amanah, a child which is gifted from Allah between the man and the woman.

00:22:43.000 It's an amanah.

00:22:43.960 And when you have that amanah, you have to know how to deal with it.

00:22:47.700 And you have to understand that it's a huge responsibility.

00:22:51.200 And if you take your children, especially in your case and your situation, my father, Allah Rahmah, used to say one lie can cause two countries to go to war.

00:23:04.780 So if a woman can lie and say you did this or you did that, you have to understand what you're doing. 0.97

00:23:12.680 And our kids, it has to start from young.

00:23:15.380 We have to stop our children from lying, understanding that lies can really affect, even with girls, and stop putting such fragilities on women. 0.68

00:23:26.800 Because they can be, you know, very much, they can do these things.

00:23:32.680 They can lie.

00:23:33.880 And then when they get into a relationship and they are married and they start revealing this bitterness and this jealousy and this,

00:23:41.600 but this should have been picked up in their childhood.

00:23:45.080 Because I guarantee you, a lot of women and girls, you can see certain traits from young, you know, and it needs to be stopped.

00:23:53.940 And vice versa for men as well.

00:23:55.840 Can I just say, that's a really important point you've made there.

00:23:58.360 Because these women, the sisters that go down this particular path, they're not doing it by themselves.

00:24:05.820 They've got a collective behind them.

00:24:08.480 Mum, dad, brother, sister, cousin, friends.

00:24:12.500 Friends, a lot of friends.

00:24:13.220 Friends, a lot of friends.

00:24:14.780 Yeah.

00:24:15.280 You know, that are supporting them and like saying, yeah, this, this, yeah.

00:24:18.440 And they'll pull out, they'll pull out Islamic teachings. 0.75

00:24:20.840 They'll pull out societal stuff. 0.99

00:24:22.520 They'll, to justify this.

00:24:24.820 And, you know, but again, you know, going back to what the sister said there, like in your situation,

00:24:30.680 what struck me was, look, you identified who the real winner is, the children.

00:24:34.420 And that's what's being lost here.

00:24:36.940 And like you're saying, sister, you know, we need to start pushing our, not even just the sisters,

00:24:42.480 I've heard everybody, you know, the ummah, to like being more truthful and more sort of down the lines of deen.

00:24:48.460 And I think that's what's being lost here.

00:24:50.140 Because a lot of people are living down the path of deen at 90%.

00:24:54.100 But suddenly there's 10% creeping in.

00:24:56.500 And that 10% is evaporating the 90%. 0.92

00:24:59.180 Exactly.

00:24:59.820 And we know that like the Prophet ﷺ, you know, they went into a war and there were some captives.

00:25:06.240 And one of the women lost their child.

00:25:08.880 So she was like, where is my child?

00:25:10.420 Where is my child?

00:25:11.060 And the Prophet ﷺ pointed and said, you see that woman?

00:25:12.800 Do you think that woman would ever throw her child in the fire? 1.00

00:25:15.080 He said, never.

00:25:16.080 He said, by Allah, Allah is more merciful than that woman.

00:25:18.460 But the point here is what?

00:25:19.800 That mothers, their love for the children.

00:25:22.040 That woman was like, where is my child? 0.96

00:25:25.920 Now, to think of mothers and, you know, that Allah ﷻ has given them that mercy and empathy and compassion.

00:25:30.640 To them, they're literally attacking their own kids.

00:25:32.800 If you think about it, I love my kids so much.

00:25:35.300 Like if you went to these like ex-partners and said to them, like, do you love your kids?

00:25:39.060 Yes, I'll die for them. 1.00

00:25:40.160 Forget die for them, you're killing them. 1.00

00:25:41.800 When no one wants you to die for them, you're killing them. 1.00

00:25:43.920 And it's a selfish attitude.

00:25:44.960 It looks like, you know, the two kids of Adam ﷺ, where the jealousy or whatever it was,

00:25:50.840 consumed so much his hatred that he killed his own brother.

00:25:53.320 So, I think the hatred has gone to that level.

00:25:55.500 Sister Ira, is there anything you'd like to add?

00:25:56.600 Yes, so.

00:25:57.840 Can we have the mic closer to her, please?

00:25:59.400 I am also divorced and I've also got a son, Alhamdulillah.

00:26:02.420 And I was in a very similar situation.

00:26:05.260 So, when my initial divorce took place, there was a lot of toxic feelings between both parties.

00:26:12.220 And I was convinced that I didn't want him to be part of my son's life anymore.

00:26:19.020 But it's only until now that I've done the work that I realized that it wasn't about my son all along.

00:26:27.160 It was about me.

00:26:28.180 It was about how I felt towards him that I was inflicting onto my child.

00:26:33.240 And we don't realize that because a mother's love for her child is irreplaceable.

00:26:39.860 And she will go beyond all measures to protect and love that child.

00:26:42.920 But often when we come out of a toxic relationship, whatever the reason may be, we label that man as he is now unfit to not only be part of my life, but also the child who is basically my life.

00:26:58.120 And we then will do whatever it takes, hence the accusations, the lies, the fighting, not realizing that this protection that we're giving the child is actually toxic.

00:27:10.940 And even though it comes from a place of goodness, because a mother's love isn't bad, it's still a negative.

00:27:18.880 And it takes a lot for a woman to recognize that this is no longer about my child, or maybe it never has been about my child, but rather is about me and how I feel towards my ex-husband.

00:27:29.780 And when a woman gets divorced, she's unfortunately shamed. 1.00

00:27:34.640 And a lot of the time she is blamed that it's her fault the marriage broke down.

00:27:38.920 So we often think, he gave me the divorce, or even if I initiate the divorce and we went ahead with it, it's still his fault.

00:27:47.320 Because nobody wants to take accountability, especially women, we struggle. 0.95

00:27:51.420 But we will blame him.

00:27:53.640 It's his fault that he couldn't fix up his act, or he couldn't do this and he couldn't do that.

00:27:58.000 Therefore, now I'm left on the side because no one's going to want me and my child because I'm now divorced from a single mom.

00:28:04.740 So it, in a way, ruins our life.

00:28:07.380 And the only thing we can do is make sure that doesn't happen to our child.

00:28:12.240 But who's the person that ruins our life?

00:28:14.200 Is the father?

00:28:15.900 Is the dad?

00:28:16.500 Is the husband?

00:28:17.820 The ex-husband?

00:28:19.580 But again, that comes back to having that toxic mentality.

00:28:21.940 And I think when a woman starts to become aware of her emotions and is able to differentiate what is her experience, what is her emotions, and what is the child's experience and emotions.

00:28:32.540 She's been able to create that boundary and that line to safeguard the child, but allow the child to have that relationship with the father.

00:28:41.200 And it's taken me, I don't know, four years to figure this out.

00:28:47.440 So sit a minute.

00:28:48.420 What led you to that, though?

00:28:50.360 You know, what helped you to get to come to that realisation?

00:28:54.160 Or even beforehand, what made you, like, not one thing in the life, and then what made you change your mind?

00:28:59.120 Because that's very important for us to understand.

00:29:00.420 Sorry, what made me?

00:29:01.100 So what first made you, because you said, there was a moment where you said you don't want your child to be involved in your ex-partner's life.

00:29:05.860 What led you to that?

00:29:07.300 And what made you change?

00:29:08.660 So we can understand the before and the after.

00:29:10.380 Sure.

00:29:10.780 It was fear.

00:29:11.720 It was fear that my son was going to grow up to become like him.

00:29:14.860 The man who hurt me, the man who ruined my life, the man who abused me, the one who disrespected me, the one who took advantage of my kindness, of my love.

00:29:23.280 It was fear that my son was going to become like him.

00:29:26.000 And because as, you know, fathers, we want, you know, our sons to become like us, and they should, because that masculinity that comes from a man can only come from a father.

00:29:36.860 A woman can never give that, no matter how much we try. 1.00

00:29:38.920 We can never fulfil the role of a father.

00:29:42.060 But when there is fear that he's going to become like the man who I absolutely despise, because now we've labelled it as he's the one that ruined my life, but I would then actually know it takes two hands to clap.

00:29:54.520 I also ruined it.

00:29:55.480 But, again, it's coming back to taking accountability, which we don't do.

00:29:59.020 And I think it was only until I started to work on myself as a person.

00:30:02.800 I had so much bitterness in me, and I was becoming like a narcissist.

00:30:07.020 I hated it.

00:30:07.620 I hated who I was.

00:30:08.620 I felt like I was just stuck.

00:30:10.240 And I felt like the world, the universe, everyone just owed me because I had sacrificed so much in my life and lost out on so much.

00:30:17.420 And now it was my turn to be happy.

00:30:19.440 And I couldn't get that because I was so toxic and because of, obviously, what I was doing.

00:30:24.920 And when I began working on myself, I realised, in accordance to Deen as well, that I actually am nothing.

00:30:33.000 I have no power over this responsibility that Allah has given me.

00:30:36.480 He is just a responsibility.

00:30:38.020 He is not my property.

00:30:38.880 I cannot stop what he does or who he sees, and especially not his own father.

00:30:43.200 And I didn't have the best of all relationship with my dad, so I think that really helped the situation because I was like, hold on.

00:30:51.420 I know how that makes me feel today.

00:30:53.440 I wish I had that bond with my dad, and I don't.

00:30:56.280 I wouldn't know when I ever want my son to feel like that, regardless of how his father is.

00:31:00.880 If his father hits him tomorrow, that's fine.

00:31:03.140 We're going to court.

00:31:04.200 Done deal.

00:31:04.720 At least tomorrow, it won't be because of me.

00:31:06.460 Or, you know, I look around, and some of my friends or just people that I know, their son will be, like, approaching teenage years, and she will say something like, I wish I had not stopped them from seeing each other.

00:31:18.460 That's fine.

00:31:19.160 And it's, the thing is, examples are all around us.

00:31:21.960 It's just we need to open our eyes and see the actual detrimental effect that it's having on children.

00:31:27.760 They're the innocent one here.

00:31:29.480 We cannot use them to express ourselves.

00:31:34.560 They're not an object.

00:31:36.720 They're humans with emotions and with rights.

00:31:41.580 Sorry to cut, but although this, you know, like, I appreciate your situation, and I think that it's good that you've come to that conclusion to allow your son to see your child.

00:31:53.640 But men are not angels as well in this situation.

00:31:57.760 And, of course, I'm very much on the side of women should allow their children to see their fathers.

00:32:03.880 But there are situations where the men use the children as ammunition against the mother as well.

00:32:12.160 So, of course, there's exceptions.

00:32:13.560 Like, for example, if we're talking about a father who is dangerous to his children, and you've been falsely accused of these things, you know, but if a father is a danger, nobody's saying, you know, the Sharia would not even allow that to happen.

00:32:26.300 But we're not talking about it.

00:32:27.420 So when we said, for example, when I said to the brothers that you shouldn't even be, why are you in that situation?

00:32:33.220 You're looking at it from a different perspective.

00:32:34.980 We can't talk about that because we're talking about you're in a situation of predicament where you're picking the two.

00:32:40.160 In your situation, what you're talking about is the man is the oppressor.

00:32:43.740 He has to be in that situation in the context where he's a danger to his kids.

00:32:47.620 And so, and he's been felt guilty.

00:32:51.600 But what if it's not abusive?

00:32:53.400 What if it's bad manners?

00:32:55.360 Okay, the Sharia, I understand that, but the thing is, I was speaking, I can remember about a year and a half ago, some sister, I think she's a student of knowledge, she contacted me.

00:33:04.440 I think she wanted to invite me to some talk or something.

00:33:05.880 I cannot remember exactly.

00:33:07.440 Or I think there was some youth doing some madness, whatever, I can't remember.

00:33:10.860 So she's talking to me and someone said to me, yeah, she's a person of knowledge, et cetera.

00:33:13.740 I'm talking to her.

00:33:14.980 The topic went to somehow this issue, yeah?

00:33:18.340 Wallahi, she was justifying to me that why the sisters are right for not showing their kids. 0.99

00:33:23.260 I was shocked.

00:33:24.060 Wallahi, I had to be like, I said, sister, can you reframe?

00:33:26.940 I thought maybe I misunderstood her.

00:33:28.420 She was justifying to me about how the women are right to use the kids. 1.00

00:33:33.840 And I said to her, sister, do you mean in the sense of like the father's doing something?

00:33:36.980 No, no, no.

00:33:37.480 Or, you know, if he went and got married again, I'm thinking, what are you doing about?

00:33:41.000 I was shocked.

00:33:42.040 I was like, you are the learned sister.

00:33:46.900 If you're doing this, la ilaha, we're finished.

00:33:49.560 And I'll be honest with you, these stories have petrified me so much.

00:33:52.220 It's a breath of fresh air to hear sister Fahima, sister Ira, and sister Amira.

00:33:56.860 Well, I'll be honest with you, they've richly made me like, well, hold on a second.

00:33:59.560 There are some, we haven't, we can't lose hope.

00:34:01.680 Because to hear that from them, to me, and like, may Allah bless you guys.

00:34:06.320 Especially sister Ira, where she said, she was there.

00:34:09.420 And she's, that realisation to me is like, wow, hats off to you.

00:34:12.220 Wow, hats off to you.

00:34:12.940 The fact that you even mentioned brave enough to say that today.

00:34:15.940 So, yeah.

00:34:17.800 Sorry, just lastly, I wanted to add in.

00:34:19.860 Just because you've got a bad relationship with, or you had a bad relationship with your ex-husband,

00:34:24.160 that he was abusive verbally, doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be that towards the kids.

00:34:28.640 I understand that if a man cannot control his anger, yes, there's likelihood of him, of it bleeding out when he is with his children.

00:34:37.180 But you cannot just stamp it as, yes, it's a failed relationship because he behaved like that with me.

00:34:43.180 Therefore, he will do the exact same thing to the children.

00:34:45.060 It's a lot worse.

00:34:45.820 And also, NSPCC, if we look at statistics, I'm not blaming sister here, women tend to, women are the ones that usually actually end up not like hitting their kids. 1.00

00:34:55.680 They're known.

00:34:56.000 The statistics show them from NSPCC that women are the main culprits when it comes, maybe it's because they spend more time with the kids. 1.00

00:35:02.260 I don't know.

00:35:02.500 I'm not trying to say all of them, but they, somebody can use it.

00:35:04.880 A man can come and say, you know what? 0.90

00:35:05.840 You're more of a danger according to statistics.

00:35:07.360 And I want them to stay with me.

00:35:08.840 So, family court and criminal court are two different things.

00:35:12.700 If you take a man or a person to criminal court, you have to have clear evidence to convict him.

00:35:22.300 In family court, it's done on probability.

00:35:24.780 The fact that you were just together, the probability is already there, the scale is there.

00:35:28.540 And what you need, so that probability counter, if it goes 51% one way, that's it.

00:35:33.640 You're guilty.

00:35:34.720 Wow.

00:35:35.280 So, when you see these things, yeah.

00:35:37.660 And the thing is, right, it's inference, hearsay, and all these things.

00:35:41.800 Not actual evidence that's convicting men in family court.

00:35:45.540 Okay, that's interesting.

00:35:46.560 There's a saying in my country, and by the way, we're not asking anybody to beat their kids here, yeah.

00:35:50.200 Just before, yeah.

00:35:51.200 So, in my country, they say, if you don't smack your kids, you will be smacking your knees.

00:35:56.420 Yeah.

00:35:56.840 So, basically, what that means is that it can be that they die, or it can be that they go into a specific path, yeah.

00:36:02.260 So, once again, I'm not asking anyone, like, when we're talking about beat, yeah, I hope you get the gist, yeah.

00:36:05.820 Yeah, that's interesting, because the sharia came to, like, protect five things, which is the lineage, the religion, the aql, the wealth, and the health.

00:36:13.460 And if you look at any of these five categories, there's a capital punishment in all of them, yeah.

00:36:17.480 Adultery, we know what that is. 0.97

00:36:19.580 Stealing, leaving the religion, all that kind of stuff.

00:36:22.280 There's capital punishments.

00:36:23.420 And, again, it's a deterrent.

00:36:24.660 Because if you think about it, we talk about this, who's going to go and see two people committing zina? 0.99

00:36:28.860 And you're seeing the act, and you need to be specific about it.

00:36:32.440 The whole point is, it's a deterrent.

00:36:34.180 But like you said about the Prophet ﷺ, I haven't heard that before, but, again, it's like in the Qur'an, when Allah ﷻ says,

00:36:40.560 you have a dispute with your wife, talk to her, move from the bed, and then you can use some kind of a force.

00:36:45.040 And we know that force is very, for example, you cannot leave a mark, you cannot cause pain.

00:36:49.200 So it is there, but I'm thinking in that category, of course, disciplining, smacking the bomb, etc.

00:36:54.320 I doubt that, because some people can take it, like, yeah, the Prophet ﷺ said, take a stick and start.

00:36:57.600 You know, that's not the case.

00:36:58.800 But what you're saying, it's true, there should be some kind of consequence.

00:37:01.560 Now, let's just, it's the same topic, we just want to wrap up.

00:37:03.820 So if there is a brother out there who's going through the situation,

00:37:06.740 we know the sisters have given amazing nasir to the sisters who are listening, alhamdulillah.

00:37:10.360 And we ask, inshallah, our sisters to, and this is a phenomenon that's going on.

00:37:14.540 It is happening a lot now, yeah.

00:37:16.020 And sometimes I talk about this, and it really annoys me, because, like,

00:37:18.460 there's certain, like, we have a sisters team, like, we have a Salaam, our organisation,

00:37:21.160 we have a sisters team there. 1.00

00:37:22.120 Sometimes we talk about these topics, and someone says, yeah, but what about,

00:37:25.640 what about, I'm talking about, like, can you imagine, if group,

00:37:28.500 imagine the topic today is, men are beating their wives. 0.85

00:37:31.780 Beating, not, like, beating, yeah.

00:37:33.380 And then I go, yeah, yeah, but, you know, but what about the brothers?

00:37:37.860 Do you get what I'm trying to say?

00:37:38.700 What kind, yeah, I've heard that.

00:37:40.920 I've heard that, I've heard that.

00:37:42.340 Wallahi, I've heard that.

00:37:45.500 Anyways, so the point is this, it's always mentioned.

00:37:48.140 What we're talking about now is a phenomena that's happening.

00:37:51.480 I'm hearing it left, right, centre.

00:37:53.460 So it's only just that we talk about this.

00:37:55.800 So if you can speak to the men, inshallah, brothers,

00:37:58.340 and tell them legally what they can do if they are in a situation

00:38:01.940 where they have been stopped by seeing their kids.

00:38:04.760 And I heard the brother said to me that, I don't know if this is true,

00:38:08.840 most likely it is, that a brother took his own life a week ago

00:38:14.960 because he couldn't see his children.

00:38:17.220 Yeah, he killed himself.

00:38:18.440 Is this true?

00:38:19.240 Yeah.

00:38:19.580 Well, if you look at it, statistically, eight men a day are taking their lives.

00:38:24.420 You know, and about, I'd say half of that is family related.

00:38:27.560 You know, there's been many men that are through, you know,

00:38:30.900 financial extortion, through the child maintenance service.

00:38:33.460 There's a sister, people should check her name, check her out, 0.99

00:38:36.980 named Sister Sally Ann Boris.

00:38:38.480 You should always recommend you to check up on her.

00:38:41.740 You know, she's doing a whole chunk of work. 0.86

00:38:43.200 They've written a report and it shows you there are men,

00:38:46.980 Muslim men, non-Muslim men, but mainly non-Muslim men,

00:38:49.740 that are committing suicide over these matters. 0.77

00:38:52.560 See, the Muslim, alhamdulillah, this is the beauty of deen, 1.00

00:38:55.840 because we know of the last day, we were just talking about this in the car,

00:38:59.300 that this is the difference, because we know that we're going to get

00:39:02.140 the ultimate justice after this.

00:39:04.460 But, you know, for those that don't have belief,

00:39:06.620 they turn to suicide because they don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

00:39:10.840 This is what it does.

00:39:11.860 And then you also hear about brothers, you know, obviously committing suicide,

00:39:15.880 but also then losing their deen, losing their practice.

00:39:19.640 And, you know, who's picking up the tab on that?

00:39:21.580 Well, you know, I think people need to figure that out.

00:39:25.120 So for brothers that are going through this situation,

00:39:28.200 if you can, mediate.

00:39:30.660 Let's try and let's stop feeding the beast of family court. 0.82

00:39:35.000 Currently, you know, I'd say on average,

00:39:37.240 there's about 4,000 Muslims in that family court.

00:39:40.980 That's too many, right?

00:39:42.560 We shouldn't be nowhere near that place.

00:39:44.200 We've got, we've got routes we can discuss.

00:39:47.300 That's what we should be doing.

00:39:49.240 But that's not happening currently because the system's gearing.

00:39:53.340 Think about this.

00:39:54.600 The system is adversarial.

00:39:56.720 It makes a winner and nooser.

00:39:58.800 And right now, the courts sit on the side of women, 1.00

00:40:02.440 whether we agree or not, they can say whatever.

00:40:05.040 But from what we've seen, you know,

00:40:07.040 we're going into court with a better argument and everything,

00:40:09.040 but because it's a woman, you know, we're getting wiped. 0.99

00:40:12.320 Now, what I'm saying is we shouldn't be going to this place.

00:40:15.700 Even Islamically, I believe in the Quran,

00:40:17.420 it says don't go to man-made courts or, you know,

00:40:20.060 the sharia is enough. 0.97

00:40:21.620 But Muslims are forgetting that, you know. 1.00

00:40:24.940 So if you can, mediate.

00:40:27.200 If you can't mediate and you've got no other course,

00:40:29.780 you can obviously go seek legal help.

00:40:32.380 Alternatively, you can come see us at mfsf.uk

00:40:35.240 or Instagram and all that.

00:40:37.760 And we'll talk to us, we'll guide you.

00:40:40.980 And not only just there,

00:40:42.060 you'll also meet other brothers that are going through it

00:40:43.680 and talking about it, you know,

00:40:45.820 because once you talk about it,

00:40:47.280 especially talking to brothers that are going through it,

00:40:48.900 we can help each other, lift each other.

00:40:50.800 Men are very silent.

00:40:51.960 We don't talk about our problems.

00:40:53.620 And this is what puts us in a downward spiral

00:40:56.080 that makes us go commit suicide, depression,

00:40:58.500 and all these other things.

00:41:00.700 You're not alone, brothers.

00:41:02.540 You know, come join us.

00:41:03.440 You know, let's lift each other up.

00:41:05.960 Inshallah, you know, we'll find a way.

00:41:07.760 Yeah, and I think it's important to understand

00:41:10.400 that the Muslim Fathers Support Forum,

00:41:13.280 it's not about supporting the father.

00:41:15.960 It's about encouraging, you know,

00:41:19.240 both parents to regain access to their children.

00:41:22.460 So unfortunately, what happens is

00:41:24.540 by the time these brothers get in touch with us,

00:41:28.060 they're already so deeply involved in the court system.

00:41:31.380 And it's usually a case of team mother

00:41:33.500 versus the team father,

00:41:34.620 whereas it should be team parents

00:41:36.420 trying to find the best solution for the children.

00:41:38.940 And that's what we try to do.

00:41:40.460 We try, as Brother Ahmed said,

00:41:42.240 you know, we will try and mediate.

00:41:44.260 We'll try and do what we have to do

00:41:45.920 for the betterment of the children.

00:41:48.600 Not for the betterment of the father

00:41:50.000 or even the mother,

00:41:51.860 but what is the best for the children.

00:41:53.740 And, you know, it's obvious that

00:41:55.780 the best interest in the children

00:41:57.640 is to have access to both parents.

00:41:59.540 Yes.

00:41:59.660 Statistics show that.

00:42:01.240 I mean, it's clear.

00:42:02.260 It's detrimental.

00:42:03.080 It is literally detrimental to the family unit.

00:42:06.180 Yeah.

00:42:06.340 You know, yeah.

00:42:07.580 And that's what we need.

00:42:08.760 That's what we're striving to do.

00:42:10.520 And we're striving to, you know,

00:42:12.040 obviously work with all the authorities

00:42:13.940 and the social services

00:42:15.600 and even the legal system

00:42:16.860 to try and get a resolution

00:42:18.280 as soon as possible.

00:42:19.660 So it kind of minimizes

00:42:21.200 as much disruption

00:42:22.580 for the children.

00:42:24.500 And that's...

00:42:25.420 May Allah bless you guys.

00:42:26.440 If it's going on,

00:42:26.880 I'm going to go to the sisters.

00:42:27.920 But just to touch upon that,

00:42:29.320 again,

00:42:30.780 the situation that you're in,

00:42:32.060 I would personally say,

00:42:33.280 personally to me,

00:42:34.600 if I was in that situation,

00:42:35.620 I would try and bestify for my kids.

00:42:37.060 This does not mean

00:42:38.000 just because I'm saying this,

00:42:39.160 that, oh, I'm...

00:42:40.120 No, because the dilemma

00:42:41.180 that one is in,

00:42:42.140 it's such a...

00:42:43.220 Like, I'm being honest.

00:42:44.140 To me, it's like...

00:42:45.760 And I understand

00:42:46.620 where Brother Mahdi is coming from,

00:42:47.500 but to me, it's like,

00:42:48.300 my kids,

00:42:49.500 and especially a dooter.

00:42:51.540 Like, to me specifically,

00:42:52.300 I've been especially a dooter, bro.

00:42:54.540 I would say fight for it.

00:42:56.260 And inshallah,

00:42:57.120 put your trust in Allah.

00:42:57.820 And one thing I just want to touch upon

00:42:58.780 before going,

00:42:59.520 which we miss,

00:43:00.140 and we need to incorporate this, yeah,

00:43:01.300 is taking the aql over the naql, yeah?

00:43:03.260 What I mean by this

00:43:03.980 is taking your logic

00:43:04.720 over what God decreed.

00:43:05.980 And this is the reason

00:43:06.720 why shaitan went astray.

00:43:08.600 Because Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala 1.00

00:43:09.520 told him something,

00:43:10.280 but logically he said,

00:43:11.000 no, this is better for me.

00:43:12.320 You know why a lot of sisters, 1.00

00:43:13.620 I believe, are going through this?

00:43:14.980 It's because they are feeling,

00:43:16.400 okay, let's suppose the man was

00:43:17.220 unjust, oppressive,

00:43:18.280 whatever it may be.

00:43:19.300 How many of us have tawakul

00:43:20.340 in Allah's justice?

00:43:21.540 You know why we do this?

00:43:22.260 Because we're seeing,

00:43:22.880 I don't believe in that.

00:43:24.800 And because I don't believe in that,

00:43:26.100 I'm going to carry the justice out myself

00:43:27.460 because I don't trust

00:43:28.080 Allah can do it for me.

00:43:28.960 Sometimes it's like that.

00:43:30.460 Wallahi, let me tell you something.

00:43:31.140 I know stories.

00:43:32.200 If you put your trust in Allah 0.95

00:43:33.420 and you believe this person

00:43:34.320 really oppressed you and wronged you,

00:43:35.880 wallahi, Allah's justice

00:43:37.040 will be carried out.

00:43:38.420 Believe me,

00:43:39.020 if you genuinely have trust,

00:43:40.560 because when you have tawakul in Allah,

00:43:42.100 you're not going to cross 1.00

00:43:42.800 the boundaries of the sharia

00:43:43.420 by not showing the kids.

00:43:44.380 You're not going to do that.

00:43:45.120 You're going to go about it the right way.

00:43:46.700 And believe me,

00:43:48.040 if you genuinely have tawakul

00:43:49.340 in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala,

00:43:50.460 his justice will prevail.

00:43:52.220 And if you have that trust

00:43:53.440 and because we don't have it,

00:43:55.000 that's the reason why

00:43:55.640 you've got these sisters in niqabs 1.00

00:43:57.060 and whatever it may be,

00:43:58.180 mashallah, practicing qiyam,

00:43:59.540 going to the police,

00:44:00.320 going to the British law.

00:44:01.360 Yeah, I'm not that we're saying

00:44:02.040 you shouldn't.

00:44:02.700 Yeah, you guys get the gist.

00:44:03.680 Yeah, the point is that.

00:44:04.860 So I would say have trust

00:44:06.340 and tawakul if you've been oppressed

00:44:07.600 rather than taken into your own hands

00:44:09.300 and causing injustice,

00:44:11.040 which you're going to go through

00:44:12.060 in this life,

00:44:12.920 in the hereafter,

00:44:13.940 and your kids.

00:44:14.580 So it's like a suicide bomber.

00:44:17.800 Everyone's going down.

00:44:19.700 Sisters will... 0.96

00:44:20.380 Please, yes.

00:44:22.160 Sorry, I just want to add this to you.

00:44:24.360 So just to add to my situation.

00:44:26.840 So after all this,

00:44:28.900 after it was all finished,

00:44:30.800 I was like, you know what,

00:44:31.460 that's it.

00:44:32.000 I went with my life.

00:44:33.200 Alhamdulillah, I met my wife.

00:44:35.180 We got married.

00:44:35.980 And at the age of 45,

00:44:37.140 I got blessed with twins.

00:44:38.500 Alhamdulillah.

00:44:39.940 And I've got twins.

00:44:41.160 I see them every day.

00:44:42.140 They're happy.

00:44:42.780 They're healthy.

00:44:43.320 The house is full of love

00:44:45.200 and happiness and everything.

00:44:46.800 But my other two children

00:44:48.120 that I don't see,

00:44:49.500 I still feel that pain.

00:44:51.480 And that pain is what I turn into MFSF,

00:44:55.740 into helping brothers.

00:44:57.020 Because no brother should feel what I feel.

00:44:59.480 That's what I used it for.

00:45:00.780 So whatever we feel,

00:45:02.200 we can use it for good, bad,

00:45:03.540 this, that, the other,

00:45:04.040 you know,

00:45:04.540 we make choices.

00:45:05.760 And I appreciate your take on it,

00:45:07.460 brother, Matthew.

00:45:08.080 You know, I get that.

00:45:09.400 And I was there at some point as well.

00:45:11.660 But I've chosen a different path.

00:45:14.900 And that's, you know,

00:45:16.620 these are choices we all have to make

00:45:18.220 when that time comes.

00:45:19.540 But, you know,

00:45:20.040 it's just there.

00:45:20.520 Just give a bit of take.

00:45:21.900 May Allah bless you, man.

00:45:22.680 I can hear from your voice

00:45:23.460 the pain you've gone through.

00:45:24.420 And I can't blame both.

00:45:25.920 Both decisions.

00:45:26.440 I can't.

00:45:27.540 But let's just end on the show.

00:45:28.400 Sister Amira,

00:45:28.920 then Sister Ayra,

00:45:29.400 then Sister Fayma,

00:45:29.880 and then we'll end the show.

00:45:31.760 Just to the women out there 0.79

00:45:33.300 who are possibly doing this,

00:45:35.520 like, honestly,

00:45:37.860 fear Allah,

00:45:38.880 because at the end of the day,

00:45:41.140 you will not be buried

00:45:42.200 with your children.

00:45:43.400 You're going to be buried alone.

00:45:45.320 And if the father is there

00:45:46.860 and he's able

00:45:47.700 and he will look after the children

00:45:50.300 and he is not a threat

00:45:52.280 to the children directly,

00:45:53.840 then you should allow your children.

00:45:57.020 And for us,

00:45:57.880 for me,

00:45:58.320 it's a very big indication

00:45:59.740 that this almost really failing

00:46:01.540 and is in a bad place,

00:46:04.060 that we are going to outside sources

00:46:07.300 like a system

00:46:09.800 which is based on racism

00:46:11.800 and built on racism.

00:46:13.940 We never win in these courts

00:46:15.860 as ethnic minorities.

00:46:18.180 So if you are using that system,

00:46:20.420 it's already a big indication

00:46:23.280 that this woman

00:46:24.340 is really suffering

00:46:25.800 at the moment.

00:46:27.200 And we need to really take

00:46:28.600 a big look at ourselves

00:46:30.960 to see what this issue is

00:46:33.500 and where it's stemming from

00:46:34.820 and how we can prevent this.

00:46:36.760 Maybe some people

00:46:38.100 shouldn't be rushing into marriage

00:46:40.080 just because of marriage

00:46:41.920 and having children.

00:46:43.020 Not everyone should just be rushing

00:46:44.980 without doing that groundwork first.

00:46:48.060 But yeah, that's me.

00:46:49.320 I think I just want to

00:46:53.000 emphasize on

00:46:55.180 keeping your experiences

00:46:57.100 and emotions separate

00:46:58.120 to your child

00:46:59.580 because you're not,

00:47:01.080 even though you're one,

00:47:01.800 you're not one.

00:47:02.780 You know,

00:47:03.040 he or she has their own

00:47:04.500 individual life.

00:47:06.420 And just to,

00:47:08.480 if you are,

00:47:09.260 if you have come out

00:47:10.000 of a divorce,

00:47:10.840 I think it's very,

00:47:11.920 very important

00:47:12.320 to work on yourself,

00:47:13.840 to find yourself again

00:47:15.080 and to ground yourself again

00:47:16.100 because this divorce

00:47:17.040 does not define you.

00:47:18.040 the way he treated you,

00:47:20.060 whether it was abuse or not,

00:47:21.260 it doesn't define you.

00:47:22.300 It's up to you

00:47:23.200 how you want to be defined.

00:47:24.900 If you want to be

00:47:25.960 that loving,

00:47:26.920 caring mother,

00:47:27.820 then you can be that.

00:47:28.920 You don't have to be

00:47:29.660 the person who is so lost

00:47:31.140 in her emotions

00:47:32.540 and is just out there

00:47:33.700 to get revenge.

00:47:35.160 As our brother Ali said,

00:47:37.040 that Allah is the most just

00:47:39.100 and the revenge

00:47:40.120 that he will get

00:47:40.880 on your behalf

00:47:41.640 is nothing in comparison

00:47:43.580 to what you can do.

00:47:45.500 Did I say that right?

00:47:46.600 Yeah.

00:47:46.920 I did say that.

00:47:47.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:47.900 A hundred percent,

00:47:48.800 a hundred percent, yeah.

00:47:49.800 The justice, yeah.

00:47:51.400 So I just leave that

00:47:52.480 up to Allah's hand

00:47:53.200 and I think that's where

00:47:54.100 I find a lot of my peace

00:47:55.320 because I was done fighting.

00:47:57.580 There's only so much

00:47:58.160 I can do as a mother

00:47:58.980 and I've got so many roles.

00:48:00.300 I'm not just a mother.

00:48:01.340 That's not my only identity.

00:48:03.600 I'm also a Muslim

00:48:05.000 and I'm a woman

00:48:05.700 and there are things

00:48:06.860 that I want to accomplish

00:48:07.580 in life and I can do that

00:48:09.020 and by allowing the father

00:48:11.200 back into his life,

00:48:12.760 subhanAllah,

00:48:13.340 was the best decision

00:48:14.420 I've ever made

00:48:15.880 and seven years later

00:48:17.560 I can see them

00:48:18.400 bonding together

00:48:19.220 and above all

00:48:20.760 it's given me

00:48:21.500 some of my weekends back.

00:48:24.080 You know,

00:48:24.360 I kind of feel like

00:48:25.260 I'm a human again.

00:48:27.080 I'm not just always

00:48:28.020 running around doing chores.

00:48:29.300 No, no, that's,

00:48:29.780 that's, that's,

00:48:30.260 just a,

00:48:31.820 may Allah bless you Sarah

00:48:32.600 but being a mother

00:48:33.540 is the best thing

00:48:34.960 that you can ever be

00:48:35.600 and I'm not that I'm saying this

00:48:36.340 because you know why

00:48:36.720 this feminist ideology 1.00

00:48:37.700 has, you know,

00:48:38.120 infiltrated,

00:48:39.000 you know,

00:48:39.200 we see that like,

00:48:40.080 oh, I'm not just a mother,

00:48:41.100 Wallahi,

00:48:41.540 and I'm not,

00:48:41.900 I know you don't mean it like that

00:48:42.920 but Wallahi,

00:48:43.900 you being a mother,

00:48:44.620 Wallahi is the best thing ever

00:48:45.560 and sisters like you 0.97

00:48:46.660 we honour and admire.

00:48:48.240 May Allah bless and preserve

00:48:49.180 people like you,

00:48:50.220 your mothers

00:48:50.720 and Alhamdulillah,

00:48:51.720 obviously this doesn't mean

00:48:52.360 you can have a little,

00:48:52.860 you know,

00:48:53.020 we talked about this career,

00:48:54.240 we discussed it anyways

00:48:55.300 but yeah,

00:48:56.020 just wanted to add on that

00:48:56.760 because some sisters feel like,

00:48:58.520 you know,

00:48:58.680 oh, I'm just someone,

00:48:59.180 no, Wallahi,

00:48:59.800 it's such a precious thing man.

00:49:01.700 It's, it's amazing.

00:49:02.300 And it just gives you

00:49:03.640 more time as well

00:49:04.500 to study your own Dean

00:49:06.780 because now you don't have

00:49:07.940 to worry about childcare,

00:49:09.040 you can go to these workshops,

00:49:10.540 you can go to this lecture

00:49:11.840 or just do whatever

00:49:14.060 you would want to do

00:49:15.240 as within,

00:49:16.440 of course,

00:49:17.020 aligned with Dean.

00:49:18.200 So it's not always

00:49:19.200 have to be bad

00:49:20.000 and I think it's just

00:49:20.780 taking that initial step

00:49:21.680 that's really daunting

00:49:22.700 but I think

00:49:23.920 if you don't take that step

00:49:25.280 then you're never

00:49:25.840 truly going to know.

00:49:26.940 Sister,

00:49:27.260 can I just ask one question?

00:49:28.260 Sure.

00:49:28.980 Obviously,

00:49:29.600 you know,

00:49:29.800 you had a toxic relationship

00:49:31.100 and you saw him as the abuser.

00:49:32.900 Now,

00:49:33.320 after you've seen him

00:49:34.100 bonding with your son

00:49:35.300 and, you know,

00:49:37.040 you've seen him

00:49:38.420 being a father,

00:49:39.620 do you still see him

00:49:40.240 as an abuser?

00:49:42.120 I don't.

00:49:43.980 And I think

00:49:44.800 it's not necessarily

00:49:46.160 because I've seen them bond

00:49:47.540 because I've only just

00:49:48.620 started to see them

00:49:50.100 bond together

00:49:50.620 but it was because

00:49:52.620 I did a lot of work

00:49:53.360 on myself

00:49:53.780 because I wasn't

00:49:55.380 going to let that define me.

00:49:56.360 I wasn't going to

00:49:56.760 let that hold me back

00:49:57.440 and to be fair,

00:49:58.840 it's like I was

00:49:59.580 drinking the poison

00:50:01.100 hoping he would die.

00:50:02.980 Wow. 0.86

00:50:03.420 You know?

00:50:04.340 And in reality,

00:50:06.020 it was just me.

00:50:06.760 I was literally

00:50:07.540 deteriorating away

00:50:08.640 in all

00:50:09.640 in my aspects of deen.

00:50:11.480 My hope in Allah

00:50:12.500 was being questioned

00:50:13.900 because I didn't know

00:50:14.820 if,

00:50:15.960 you know,

00:50:16.180 I remember sitting

00:50:17.080 in the courtroom

00:50:17.540 and I was stuck there

00:50:18.960 for about two hours

00:50:19.760 and I did nothing

00:50:20.520 but pray

00:50:21.120 that please,

00:50:22.540 Allah,

00:50:22.760 let this go into my favor

00:50:24.620 in the family court

00:50:25.720 which I now regret

00:50:26.640 going to

00:50:27.360 and it didn't

00:50:28.560 and it made me question

00:50:30.020 like,

00:50:30.820 you know my pain,

00:50:32.300 you know what I'm going through,

00:50:33.320 you know what our relationship

00:50:34.180 was like,

00:50:35.100 so why?

00:50:36.120 Yes.

00:50:36.480 Okay,

00:50:36.700 sister,

00:50:36.900 I'm going to quickly

00:50:37.300 because inshallah.

00:50:38.020 Okay,

00:50:38.660 you know when you mention

00:50:40.180 about choosing

00:50:41.420 those two regrets,

00:50:42.520 I had a client

00:50:43.080 recently as well

00:50:43.880 who's,

00:50:44.360 you know,

00:50:44.980 was taken away,

00:50:46.280 his kids were taken away

00:50:47.080 from him

00:50:47.480 and he did,

00:50:48.640 he did choose

00:50:49.360 to walk away

00:50:50.020 from that too

00:50:50.720 not because he's not

00:50:51.860 choosing his children

00:50:52.780 because the women 1.00

00:50:53.680 and the system

00:50:54.320 do want to,

00:50:55.680 you know,

00:50:55.900 they do want to destroy him

00:50:57.100 right,

00:50:57.740 with money,

00:50:58.340 with finance

00:50:58.820 so even if he was

00:50:59.480 to fight for that

00:51:00.140 he'd end up with nothing

00:51:01.160 so it's not like

00:51:02.020 as if you're choosing

00:51:02.820 that career

00:51:03.860 or that business

00:51:04.620 you're doing it

00:51:05.260 for your future

00:51:06.060 and for that family

00:51:06.820 and you've got to

00:51:07.240 have trust in that

00:51:08.040 because they're going

00:51:08.660 to come back to you

00:51:09.560 and you're going

00:51:10.080 to have to be somebody

00:51:11.040 especially as a man

00:51:11.920 very good

00:51:12.900 right?

00:51:13.380 So I think it's really

00:51:14.280 important that we

00:51:14.860 understand that

00:51:15.400 they're not giving up

00:51:16.200 on you

00:51:16.580 they're just looking

00:51:17.360 forward

00:51:17.660 and right now

00:51:18.140 they're not falling

00:51:18.660 into the pit

00:51:19.220 that you're trying

00:51:19.760 to put them in

00:51:20.380 exactly

00:51:20.800 guys

00:51:21.280 I think that was

00:51:21.880 maybe the most

00:51:22.980 productive episode

00:51:23.960 we've had

00:51:24.340 that's it guys

00:51:28.940 from the bitter truth

00:51:29.880 as you can see

00:51:30.600 we split some

00:51:31.220 bitter truths here

00:51:31.860 especially with that

00:51:32.520 poison bomb

00:51:33.040 may Allah bless you 0.73

00:51:33.800 sister

00:51:34.040 yeah that's what it is

00:51:35.700 and hope you guys

00:51:36.340 have benefited

00:51:36.680 if you want to

00:51:37.180 suggest specific

00:51:37.740 topics for us

00:51:38.420 email inshallah

00:51:39.960 at thebittertruth

00:51:41.220 at bittertruthshow

00:51:42.280 at gmail.com

00:51:43.200 if you want to be

00:51:44.100 a part of the panel

00:51:44.740 please get in contact

00:51:45.440 with us inshallah

00:51:45.980 until next time

00:51:47.120 assalamualaikum

00:51:47.800 wa rahmatullahi

00:51:48.220 barakatuh 0.83

00:51:48.600 and we would like

00:51:49.440 to also hear the

00:51:49.980 other side

00:51:50.340 if there are sisters 0.85

00:51:50.880 who have gone through

00:51:51.620 where the fathers

00:51:53.040 disappeared or whatever

00:51:53.760 it may be pleased

00:51:54.300 we would like to hear

00:51:54.960 inshallah

00:51:55.180 that will be one

00:51:55.820 of our topics

00:51:56.800 until next time

00:51:57.660 assalamualaikum

00:51:58.540 wa rahmatullahi

00:51:59.240 wa barakatuh

00:51:59.980 the prophet

00:52:00.760 sallallahu alayhi

00:52:01.300 said

00:52:01.740 whoever builds

00:52:02.920 a masjid

00:52:03.380 for the sake

00:52:03.820 of Allah

00:52:04.120 Allah will build 0.99

00:52:06.000 for him

00:52:06.680 a similar house

00:52:07.800 in Jannah

00:52:08.460 on that day

00:52:09.620 where Allah

00:52:10.080 subhanahu wa ta'ala

00:52:10.580 tells us

00:52:11.280 that our books

00:52:12.000 will be given

00:52:12.480 and every little

00:52:14.080 atom weight

00:52:14.800 of good deed

00:52:15.260 will be there

00:52:16.500 and imagine

00:52:17.420 you see a mountain

00:52:18.480 and you're like

00:52:19.340 what a lucky person

00:52:20.360 which righteous person

00:52:21.900 and Allah says

00:52:23.240 this is for you

00:52:24.000 for me

00:52:24.680 yes

00:52:25.400 what did I do

00:52:26.420 you allowed people

00:52:28.080 to pray

00:52:28.520 you built a masjid 0.95

00:52:29.560 I never had the money

00:52:30.380 to build a masjid 0.99

00:52:31.000 oh Allah

00:52:31.300 you helped

00:52:32.640 you gave towards it

00:52:33.840 and Allah gives you 0.75

00:52:34.520 the reward

00:52:34.980 of as if you've built it

00:52:36.360 donate now guys

00:52:37.640 and do not delay

00:52:38.400 and share the video

00:52:39.620 for extra rewards

00:52:40.560 for extra reward

00:52:48.000 for extra reward

00:52:49.160 these details

00:52:49.900 should be

00:52:50.760 in a place

00:52:51.300 much more

00:52:51.820 that's if I

00:52:51.840 that's if I

00:52:53.500 if I can would

00:52:53.940 be a bad

00:52:55.140 you trust me

00:52:55.380 we'll do it

00:52:55.620 and make sure

00:52:56.000 that's żeby

Ali Dawah - May 30, 2023

EX WIVES USING KIDS AGAINST FATHERS - EP 10 ｜｜ BITTER TRUTH SHOW

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