Ali Dawah - October 29, 2024


HELLBENT ATHEIST FAN VS ALI DAWAH - FRIENDLY ENDING


Episode Stats


Length

28 minutes

Words per minute

216.30865

Word count

6,156

Sentence count

871

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about evolution and why we should thank the people that made the first cell. We also talk about the importance of Sadaqah Jariah and how it can be used to help our brothers and sisters in Gaza.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Brothers and sisters, just imagine for a second that you give 10 pounds in donation and that 10
00:00:03.840 pounds is used to buy food or bricks or whatever to help the people in Gaza. But then just imagine
00:00:09.200 this amazing day that you want to do, but we turn it into a money making machine. How? The waqf is
00:00:14.980 exactly that. They take your money and the money that we are going to put in this waqf, this building
00:00:20.140 and every single time the money generated from that waqf, that building is going to go to our
00:00:26.700 Palestinian brothers and sisters for the next 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100, 150 years. And this will be a form of true Sadaqah Jariah. I myself will be donating for that inshaAllah. Click the link below and donate. May Allah bless and preserve you guys.
00:00:42.740 Sadaqah Jariah is very simple, but now we know it's not simple. In every single strand of DNA, there's three billion base tests. And your DNA has more information than any library in the world. That information is specified. It's complex. So it's not just the words M-A-X like a name. It's commands.
00:01:08.740 For example, I'll give you an example. My friend here. We're talking about DNA. We take out his DNA. We take out his DNA. When we take out his DNA, that strand of information is so incredible that you could actually store all of the books from the British Library into that strand easily.
00:01:37.740 Wow. So what does it show you? Intelligence, right? It's not to do with time because time will lead to chaos. If you see, if you give it a billion years, unless someone's tinkering with the process.
00:01:51.180 Yes. Yeah. Do you see? Yeah. I'll tell you something interesting. You know Charles Darwin himself? Yes. He came up with the theory of evolution. Yes. Did you know that when he published his theory, he still believed in God?
00:02:02.380 Yeah. Yeah. I guess he did. He was a deist. Yeah. Yeah. When he published his theory in 1858 at the Royal Society here in London, he still believed in God. Yeah. Later on in his life, he became an agnostic because of the problem of evil.
00:02:17.960 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Right? That's the problem. Yeah. However, he said, in my wildest fluctuations, these are his words, I was never an atheist. No.
00:02:28.200 So people think evolution explains away God. No. If I was to explain to you how your car works, how it works, you put in petrol, you get combustion, you get electricity, you get windows, you get...
00:02:40.200 That's the how. Yeah. It doesn't explain the why. Yeah. So evolution, even at best, is a how explanation, not a why explanation.
00:02:47.400 Yeah. So it's a bit like AI, for example, the information that...
00:02:50.400 Let's just say, hi, Max. Max, then you're at Ali. Ali, that's a fan. I'm your fan. Yeah. It's like AI. The information that we give to AI gives us different results when we ask them questions.
00:03:00.720 It derives us information in different places. So the credit is not given to the AI, it's given to the people that made it. So the question is, the first cell that was made, it had those properties, even if you go argument's sake, that what we have today, different species and all that kind of stuff.
00:03:13.940 If it goes back to the first cell, that means the first cell had the properties to bring full facts life. So therefore it points... Why? Because, for example, AI. Yeah. When you use AI. Yeah.
00:03:25.580 Do you not say AI is quite intelligent? Yeah. Okay. We created it. Okay. Do you thank the AI or the people that made the AI?
00:03:32.940 Uh, thank the people that made the AI. Okay, good. So we're saying instead of thanking the cell, thank the one that made the cell. Okay. Okay. So you think that the cell was created. That's what you think.
00:03:42.940 No, no, no. I think that's what it is. Oh, okay. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So that's what we're talking about. Exactly. I don't think that. I don't think that that was created.
00:03:50.580 Then what's, what's your evidence to that? Because you need to tell us why you believe the first cell came out to be. Then we can have a dialogue.
00:03:57.380 I don't have to tell you. I can't. Of course you do. Come on. No, no. I can. I can. What I can tell you is that I'm not sure. I'm not like, I haven't, I don't have any idea of why and how that comes. Okay. But I can tell you that and say that and be comfortable. Like, I don't have to know. No, you do. You know why? Yeah. Why? How do you know you're not in the matrix?
00:04:13.340 How do you know I exist? How do you know I'm real? How do you know you're real? I have no idea. Okay. All right. Okay. No problem.
00:04:18.840 Look, there are, I can't, I can't. Do you mind? I don't want, I don't want to be done for assault, but can I, do you mind?
00:04:24.500 Yeah, of course. Okay. Are you feeling that? Yeah, exactly. Okay. Are you feeling that? Is that real? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that is real?
00:04:30.800 I think it's real. Oh, you think it's real? My mind thinks it's real.
00:04:33.540 So would you allow somebody to get a gun into your head and say, let's just test if you're real or not?
00:04:36.960 No, of course not. Why not? But why don't you say, why don't you just test it? Because you're not certain.
00:04:41.560 Because you are certain that you will lose your life. And this is what we say when it comes to this issue.
00:04:46.800 When you're crossing the road, you look left and right. Yeah.
00:04:48.960 Because you're not going to say, well, maybe it's the Matrix. Maybe if I go, the bus will just go past me like Matrix.
00:04:53.400 You know, it dodges Willett. Yeah.
00:04:55.120 When it comes to God, this is what I try to understand, Max. Yeah.
00:04:58.420 Why is it when it comes to God, rationality and logic goes out the window?
00:05:01.280 But when it comes to you waking up in the morning, you know you're in your house.
00:05:04.340 You know when you go to your fridge, you know where the eggs are.
00:05:06.580 You know everything is rational. Everything is logical.
00:05:09.020 If you went to your fridge and saw a bunny rabbit, you'd be, that's bizarre.
00:05:13.400 You would never say, possibility.
00:05:14.960 But it's rational and logical because I put it that way.
00:05:16.960 No, but if you went to your fridge and opened it and saw a rocket.
00:05:21.320 Yeah.
00:05:22.020 You'd be like, what's a rocket doing in my fridge?
00:05:23.420 Oh, I put it there. Somebody put it there.
00:05:25.880 Good. The logical, rational thing you come to is what?
00:05:29.040 Okay.
00:05:29.460 Somebody. You wouldn't say random chances of, you would say something must have put it there.
00:05:34.660 Yeah.
00:05:34.840 So what we're saying is the following. The first cell, someone must have put it there.
00:05:37.660 Because when you say, I don't know, I don't know is a cop-out because you don't apply that to your day-to-day life.
00:05:42.820 You came here today. What's the reason you're out today? Are you going to clubbing and party?
00:05:45.760 I'm from Sweden.
00:05:46.220 You're from Sweden, yeah?
00:05:47.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:47.440 So what's the reason you came here in London?
00:05:49.640 For work.
00:05:50.000 For work.
00:05:50.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:50.760 So you know you came here for a reason.
00:05:52.640 You were certain.
00:05:53.380 You're going to say I'm uncertain for where I'm going.
00:05:55.660 That's our argument.
00:05:56.360 Okay, okay. So this rocket thing.
00:05:58.600 Yeah.
00:05:58.960 So if I would have a fridge, it was closed for a million, a thousand, a million years.
00:06:03.940 Yes, yes.
00:06:04.160 And the molecules for building a rocket actually existed in that fridge.
00:06:08.620 Yes.
00:06:08.880 It will be a rocket at one point because that's what chance happens.
00:06:13.100 No, no.
00:06:14.100 Can I just ask one small point?
00:06:15.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:16.180 You know when you're playing snooker or pool?
00:06:18.320 Yeah, exactly.
00:06:19.200 When you hit the white ball, it hits the red ball.
00:06:21.440 Exactly.
00:06:21.720 Does it go in random directions or can you tell which directions it's going to go?
00:06:27.940 Exactly, but that's not the point.
00:06:29.060 That's not the same thing, right?
00:06:30.280 No, no, no.
00:06:30.580 It's not the same argument.
00:06:31.500 I'm asking a different question, which is, is it random or is it non-random?
00:06:34.840 No, because you have a direction.
00:06:36.860 You have a force of momentum in that way and then you send the ball that way and then it
00:06:40.900 kicks another ball in the same direction.
00:06:42.640 Sure.
00:06:43.080 It's about the momentum, right?
00:06:44.160 Yeah, so if I was to ask you, Max, if you know you're going to hit the ball,
00:06:48.580 you know the velocity, you know the surface friction, you know the atmosphere,
00:06:53.240 you know all of, down to the quantum mechanics, can you predict where all the balls are going
00:06:57.180 to go if you know everything?
00:06:59.020 Of course.
00:06:59.680 Of course.
00:06:59.940 Good.
00:07:00.540 So, even if evolution is the process by which we were created, it's certainly not random
00:07:07.240 because randomness doesn't exist.
00:07:08.740 Yeah.
00:07:09.000 Why not?
00:07:09.540 There is no chance in science.
00:07:10.580 Because randomness is a term for our ignorance.
00:07:13.920 Okay.
00:07:14.980 We're playing snooker.
00:07:16.220 Exactly, exactly.
00:07:16.560 We're playing snooker.
00:07:17.240 And I hit the ball, Ali says, it went randomly.
00:07:20.440 Exactly.
00:07:20.980 But then I say to Ali, it's not random because if we knew everything about the parameters,
00:07:26.480 the constraints, we would know where all the balls go.
00:07:29.140 You would know the results.
00:07:29.880 So, everything is determined.
00:07:32.040 Did you understand?
00:07:33.140 He said, look, look, heads and tails, yeah?
00:07:35.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:35.560 The reason, there is no chance in science, meaning the following.
00:07:38.880 The reason we say chance to heads and tails is because we do not know all the factors
00:07:43.200 that determine heads or tails.
00:07:44.660 If we knew the wind, the angle I throw it at, the power that I use, if we knew precisely,
00:07:49.800 we would know exactly the same results every single time.
00:07:52.440 I agree.
00:07:52.820 The only reason we call it chance is because we do not know the factors.
00:07:56.420 Exactly.
00:07:56.640 So, he's saying evolution is the same thing.
00:07:58.500 There is no such thing as chance.
00:07:59.740 Because when you know all the factors, it is all determined.
00:08:03.720 That's why there are people who are hard determinists.
00:08:05.460 Exactly.
00:08:06.480 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:08:07.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:07.720 So, there is no chance.
00:08:08.700 Exactly.
00:08:09.420 It's designed.
00:08:11.120 I don't agree with that.
00:08:12.240 No, but on what basis?
00:08:13.000 So, the basis is that if we would know, so I totally agree with it.
00:08:18.560 If we knew everything, we would know exactly what would happen to the ball where it would
00:08:21.760 go.
00:08:22.100 Yes.
00:08:22.500 I agree with that.
00:08:23.160 But the thing is that, so we would know that if we have all the molecules, if I have these
00:08:28.980 kind of molecules in this room, and then we take it, we like, like, fast forward a million
00:08:34.600 years.
00:08:34.900 Okay, no problem.
00:08:35.640 Then these molecules will at one point come together.
00:08:38.900 Okay, but you need to have molecules in the first place.
00:08:40.920 Look.
00:08:41.180 Sorry?
00:08:41.660 The molecules have to be there in the first place.
00:08:43.940 If I have an empty car.
00:08:45.640 Exactly.
00:08:46.100 And we give it billions of years.
00:08:47.400 Yeah.
00:08:47.720 Would I ever get a Ferrari?
00:08:48.680 Yes, probably.
00:08:49.620 No, no, no, no, you wouldn't.
00:08:50.800 No, no, no, no, it's good.
00:08:52.120 I'm still alive now.
00:08:52.740 You will never get a Ferrari because the components to make a Ferrari is not in the cup.
00:08:56.140 So time is irrelevant.
00:08:57.160 Look, chance, time is irrelevant in equation if the elements to make a Ferrari are not in
00:09:01.600 the cup.
00:09:02.020 If you have a cup that's completely closed.
00:09:04.260 Empty.
00:09:04.660 Not empty.
00:09:05.220 I'm not even talking about atoms.
00:09:06.300 There is nothing there.
00:09:07.820 What's time got to do with a Ferrari being made when the elements to make it is not there?
00:09:12.760 But the elements were created like in the...
00:09:15.000 I'm saying there are no elements.
00:09:16.380 Okay, okay.
00:09:16.820 Good.
00:09:17.420 Good.
00:09:17.840 So we will not get a Ferrari.
00:09:18.760 Yeah, okay.
00:09:19.180 So then the question is this.
00:09:21.040 Who put the elements there for it to make what we have today?
00:09:27.100 Nobody.
00:09:28.040 Okay.
00:09:28.600 So then, okay, nothing.
00:09:29.560 So then it came from nothing.
00:09:30.600 Yeah.
00:09:32.160 Max, you're an intelligent guy.
00:09:33.680 Yeah, I know.
00:09:33.980 You're a clever guy.
00:09:35.060 Max, Max, Max.
00:09:35.940 Zero equals one?
00:09:37.700 Zero from nothing, nothing.
00:09:39.000 Something comes?
00:09:39.360 The universe is that we're trying to understand it.
00:09:41.520 No, no.
00:09:41.800 I'm asking you a question, rational, logical.
00:09:43.520 Can something come from nothing?
00:09:45.360 Rational, logically.
00:09:46.480 Rational, with my human logic.
00:09:48.720 Yes.
00:09:48.900 Where I was born.
00:09:49.660 Yes.
00:09:49.840 Like, I'm born this.
00:09:50.640 Yes.
00:09:50.780 I have the brain that I can use.
00:09:52.720 Yeah.
00:09:52.840 And it's actually made to function in the African savannah and stuff like that.
00:09:57.140 I can't rationally understand that nothing, that something can come from nothing.
00:10:01.760 I'm asking you, can it?
00:10:02.520 I agree.
00:10:02.960 Can it?
00:10:04.060 It probably can.
00:10:05.240 Obviously, I think it can.
00:10:06.780 But I don't understand.
00:10:07.620 Max, give me one example of something coming from nothing.
00:10:10.460 One.
00:10:10.600 The thing is, like, why do we, because we build our, like, idea of how we live on our earth
00:10:16.400 now.
00:10:16.800 Like, we build our, like, our thoughts and everything from our world.
00:10:21.320 Yes, because that's our experience.
00:10:22.640 But why does that have to be true?
00:10:25.580 Maybe there's another explaining something else.
00:10:27.780 But the thing is, whatever explaining, I'm asking it.
00:10:29.580 Why does it have to be a god?
00:10:30.180 No, no.
00:10:30.680 Look, no problem.
00:10:31.500 I'm saying, why is there an allergy towards God?
00:10:34.380 Let's say aliens.
00:10:35.540 The point is this.
00:10:36.460 There had to be a prior course to that.
00:10:39.800 I don't, I don't.
00:10:40.720 Okay, but can something come from nothing?
00:10:42.420 Simple question.
00:10:42.880 Can zero equal one?
00:10:44.660 I don't know.
00:10:46.200 Max.
00:10:46.880 Just think about it.
00:10:47.660 Look, nothing is the absence of something.
00:10:49.600 The thing is this.
00:10:50.100 How could you get something from nothing?
00:10:51.260 I don't know.
00:10:51.800 This is the thing.
00:10:53.480 But you do know when you came out here.
00:10:55.120 That's the double standards that he did there.
00:10:57.020 But that's what the science people say, you know?
00:10:59.360 Are you uncertain about everything?
00:11:02.080 Uncertain about everything.
00:11:03.360 Yeah.
00:11:03.580 It sounds like you're uncertain about everything.
00:11:06.320 You don't know anything for certain.
00:11:10.080 At some point, yes.
00:11:11.220 But at some point, no.
00:11:12.060 Okay, so I've asked to ask you, are you in doubt that you're thinking?
00:11:18.400 No, I'm not.
00:11:19.580 I'm not in doubt.
00:11:20.400 But I mean, like, it's a cool philosopher to think that you might be like a...
00:11:24.580 But the whole point of this thought experiment is to show that you can't doubt that you are thinking.
00:11:31.180 Okay.
00:11:31.540 You know Descartes' famous idea of, I think, therefore I am.
00:11:35.040 Exactly.
00:11:35.440 You will always go back to some things which are immovable.
00:11:40.260 Yeah.
00:11:40.520 They're factual.
00:11:41.420 Yeah.
00:11:41.620 And you can't doubt them.
00:11:42.580 For example, you can think I may be in a matrix, but you cannot think I do not exist.
00:11:49.220 I'm thinking.
00:11:50.420 Yeah.
00:11:50.720 Minimum.
00:11:51.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:51.540 Okay.
00:11:53.160 Something exists rather than nothing.
00:11:55.040 We agree about this.
00:11:56.340 Me and you agree.
00:11:57.480 I don't know.
00:11:58.420 Maybe.
00:11:58.740 Well, you exist.
00:11:59.620 Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:12:00.500 Okay.
00:12:00.860 Yeah, well...
00:12:01.820 And you're thinking.
00:12:02.780 Yeah.
00:12:03.240 So, clearly, we exist rather than not exist.
00:12:06.600 Yeah.
00:12:06.880 Okay.
00:12:07.940 So, now there's two options.
00:12:09.980 Either something came from nothing or something came from something.
00:12:14.360 But that something must have come from something.
00:12:17.000 Okay.
00:12:17.500 Right?
00:12:17.760 If we say that something came from something and we ask that question again and again and again and again,
00:12:23.140 can it go back forever?
00:12:25.380 It has to.
00:12:26.300 If that's the point that we're making, that something has to be created by something, then that's what we have to do.
00:12:31.740 And that's why I think it's not true.
00:12:33.160 Because something needs to be like the beginning and I think that's the universe.
00:12:37.340 Okay.
00:12:37.800 Okay.
00:12:38.120 Interesting.
00:12:38.640 I don't think that's the God.
00:12:39.140 Okay.
00:12:39.500 You made a brilliant point, which is it has to stop somewhere.
00:12:43.080 Or else we wouldn't exist.
00:12:44.820 And that's God, right?
00:12:45.660 Well, actually, no.
00:12:46.580 Before we get to God, the first thinker to realize this was Aristotle.
00:12:52.520 So, he came up with the idea of foundationalism that everything has to start off with a foundation.
00:12:57.780 Some foundation.
00:12:59.060 Something which, if you were to say the universe came from another universe,
00:13:02.720 it came from something else.
00:13:04.180 If this universe exists, it can't go back forever.
00:13:06.940 There has to be some first cause.
00:13:08.580 Okay.
00:13:09.700 So, what is the first cause?
00:13:11.400 Now, you said, Max, the first cause is the universe.
00:13:13.860 Yeah.
00:13:14.640 I say the first cause is God.
00:13:16.880 Yeah.
00:13:17.100 Are there any more options?
00:13:19.200 Probably.
00:13:20.360 I do not think there's any more options.
00:13:22.220 Probably.
00:13:23.160 Either the universe came from nothing.
00:13:25.480 Yeah.
00:13:25.860 Or the universe always existed.
00:13:28.260 Or the universe came from God.
00:13:29.600 Okay.
00:13:30.420 There's only three options.
00:13:31.420 Okay.
00:13:32.140 Can the universe come from nothing?
00:13:34.640 Probably.
00:13:35.880 We have no evidence of something coming from nothing.
00:13:39.880 Like in our world, how we live now.
00:13:41.820 Yeah.
00:13:42.020 But maybe there's something else that we don't understand.
00:13:43.840 Okay.
00:13:44.100 But the problem is, whenever we use science, logic, mathematics, we use it in our everyday
00:13:49.840 life.
00:13:50.340 We've seen that this actually works.
00:13:52.980 We have no reason to doubt it.
00:13:55.060 Exactly.
00:13:55.640 Right?
00:13:55.840 Yeah.
00:13:55.940 So, it can't be from nothing.
00:13:58.220 Number two.
00:13:59.360 Either the universe always existed or there's a God.
00:14:01.980 Okay?
00:14:03.160 There's a God behind the universe.
00:14:04.460 Something always existed.
00:14:05.600 Okay.
00:14:05.840 Good.
00:14:06.000 Why do you think it's the universe rather than God?
00:14:09.020 And I'll explain why I believe it's God over the universe.
00:14:11.720 Yeah.
00:14:12.040 You've got to be saying.
00:14:13.060 Okay.
00:14:13.860 If the universe always existed.
00:14:17.120 Yeah.
00:14:17.680 And it's just a brute fact.
00:14:21.220 Yeah.
00:14:21.320 It's always been there.
00:14:23.300 Then the question has to be asked, why is there movement in the universe?
00:14:27.840 Why are things currently moving?
00:14:29.220 You'll run out of energy.
00:14:37.620 Eventually, everything will get down and you'll have complete death and complete silence.
00:14:42.240 It might be.
00:14:43.400 Yeah.
00:14:43.820 That might happen.
00:14:45.120 But it hasn't happened because the universe is supposed to be eternal.
00:14:47.980 Yeah.
00:14:48.200 But it can happen.
00:14:50.040 It probably will happen, I think.
00:14:51.260 From your perspective, if the universe always existed, how old is the universe?
00:14:56.540 I have no idea.
00:14:57.400 Eternal.
00:14:57.640 That means everything should have stopped.
00:15:01.400 Why?
00:15:02.600 Because it's eternal.
00:15:03.820 Okay.
00:15:04.660 Well.
00:15:05.220 You get the point.
00:15:06.000 Yeah.
00:15:06.100 I understand it's infinite and then it needs to be infinite.
00:15:08.520 So, what Ali was referring to is, what is more probable?
00:15:13.600 And what he said makes a lot of sense.
00:15:15.280 If you go by probabilities, information comes from a source.
00:15:19.860 Design comes from a designer.
00:15:22.180 Something comes from something.
00:15:24.120 It doesn't come from nothing.
00:15:25.420 Okay.
00:15:25.660 So, if you add all of those things up collectively, God makes much more sense than believing in the universe.
00:15:31.940 But then God has to come from something.
00:15:33.560 No.
00:15:34.080 Because it's a necessary being.
00:15:35.720 I mean, that's the thing.
00:15:36.880 And that's illogical for me.
00:15:38.520 No, it can't.
00:15:39.160 Because the thing is, everything has to be a sign point.
00:15:40.860 But you already agreed.
00:15:42.340 You already agreed.
00:15:43.400 I haven't agreed on anything.
00:15:44.620 Yes, yes, yes.
00:15:45.360 No, no, no.
00:15:45.580 By the way, by the way, by the way, no, you did.
00:15:47.040 You're talking.
00:15:47.640 We're talking.
00:15:48.020 He agreed.
00:15:48.800 He told me it can't go back forever.
00:15:50.920 Yes, exactly.
00:15:51.500 You told me.
00:15:52.400 I told you.
00:15:53.480 Exactly.
00:15:53.820 If God exists, then we can look.
00:15:55.360 Then you can ask.
00:15:55.660 If you say, you know what, God exists, then we can talk about who created God.
00:16:00.080 Or is there a creator for God?
00:16:02.300 Sorry.
00:16:02.820 You have heard this North theory.
00:16:04.920 If you say, go North now.
00:16:06.720 Yeah.
00:16:07.020 Like, okay, I keep going North.
00:16:08.640 Yeah.
00:16:08.880 But at one point, you will be at the North Pole, right?
00:16:11.560 Okay.
00:16:11.920 Yeah.
00:16:12.080 And then going North doesn't make any sense.
00:16:15.100 Like, how can I go anymore North?
00:16:16.980 Well, exactly.
00:16:17.940 That's the point.
00:16:18.880 So, how could you have an infinite regress of dependent things?
00:16:21.260 That's the universe.
00:16:21.660 The universe.
00:16:22.440 Like, what happens before the universe?
00:16:24.380 Yes.
00:16:24.700 Nothing.
00:16:25.780 It doesn't mean anything.
00:16:26.980 No, no, no, no.
00:16:27.480 You can't say it doesn't mean anything.
00:16:28.540 You need to say that.
00:16:29.380 You cannot have an infinite regress of dependent things.
00:16:32.060 The universe is dependent.
00:16:33.040 I think that we have the same because, like, I don't think that the universe started everything
00:16:39.120 and that God started everything.
00:16:40.360 No, no, no.
00:16:40.680 I don't think that those two are so different things.
00:16:43.440 We know the universe began to exist.
00:16:45.560 Exactly.
00:16:46.020 Yeah, exactly.
00:16:46.440 If the universe began to exist, something gave rise to it.
00:16:49.500 God must have begun to exist.
00:16:51.020 Okay.
00:16:51.380 We can...
00:16:51.760 Okay.
00:16:52.020 Firstly, do you accept the universe began to exist?
00:16:55.180 Yeah, I agree.
00:16:55.780 I agree.
00:16:55.960 If the universe began to exist, something gave rise to it.
00:16:58.720 Would you agree with that?
00:16:59.300 No, no, no.
00:17:00.620 Okay.
00:17:01.020 I don't...
00:17:01.740 I don't know.
00:17:02.120 Okay, okay.
00:17:02.560 Okay, why have we caused that in the text?
00:17:03.720 No, no, no.
00:17:03.940 One second.
00:17:04.620 No, no, one second.
00:17:05.120 One second.
00:17:05.360 You said, I accept that everything that begins to exist has a cause.
00:17:08.620 I think.
00:17:09.760 What's the conversation?
00:17:10.820 Oh, we're having a discussion.
00:17:11.920 He's an atheist.
00:17:12.680 We're trying to prove that God exists.
00:17:14.160 No, no.
00:17:14.640 What's the conversation about?
00:17:15.540 About God existing.
00:17:16.780 We're trying to prove that God exists.
00:17:17.880 I don't think God...
00:17:19.880 That's good, really.
00:17:21.300 No, I don't know.
00:17:22.740 It exists, but then I don't think God exists.
00:17:25.000 Okay, so that's...
00:17:26.440 So we're having a discussion.
00:17:27.200 You can listen to it if you want.
00:17:28.100 No, I don't think God's ever helped me in love.
00:17:30.520 Okay.
00:17:31.260 So the argument is following.
00:17:33.120 You said the universe began to exist.
00:17:34.660 If the universe began to exist, that means one moment of time, it came to existence.
00:17:39.660 Okay.
00:17:40.240 What gave rise to that?
00:17:41.800 Okay, God didn't...
00:17:43.360 Let's not call it God.
00:17:44.180 I'm just asking a question.
00:17:45.040 What gave rise to it?
00:17:45.980 What?
00:17:46.160 Something random.
00:17:48.300 We don't know yet.
00:17:49.760 That's the thing.
00:17:50.400 We don't know.
00:17:50.960 If it began to exist, you can't say something random.
00:17:53.660 What gave rise to it?
00:17:54.800 We don't know.
00:17:56.540 But you know...
00:17:57.820 Wait, wait, wait.
00:17:58.140 One second.
00:17:58.540 It's double standard.
00:17:59.520 No, it's not double standard.
00:18:00.520 You know...
00:18:00.860 Okay, then why do you...
00:18:01.480 Let's cross the road.
00:18:02.300 I don't want to look left and right.
00:18:03.280 Just cross straight.
00:18:03.860 No, no, no, no.
00:18:04.340 No, no, no.
00:18:04.740 Please, please, please.
00:18:05.280 No, no, Max, please.
00:18:06.040 And just do a wee, but just say, look, Ali's going to push me, yeah?
00:18:09.120 Let's go there.
00:18:10.040 But you're certain.
00:18:10.780 You see?
00:18:11.300 You will never do that.
00:18:12.260 This is why we're saying math.
00:18:13.720 Why double standards?
00:18:14.720 When it comes to your day-to-day life, everything is certain.
00:18:17.060 I wake up in the morning.
00:18:17.900 I know where my shirt is.
00:18:18.900 I know what I'm going to wear.
00:18:19.680 I know what I'm going to eat.
00:18:20.660 I know what I'm going to do.
00:18:21.820 Everything is certain.
00:18:22.940 When it comes to the most rational, logical thing, nah, all things are possible.
00:18:27.440 Why?
00:18:28.260 Because our brain isn't made...
00:18:30.180 The universe doesn't have to make sense for us.
00:18:33.020 The logic needs to make sense to you, not the universe.
00:18:35.340 The universe doesn't have to make sense to you.
00:18:38.140 We're not created.
00:18:38.860 I'm not only about the universe, the universe doesn't make sense to me.
00:18:41.540 No, it doesn't make sense to you.
00:18:42.320 No, no, no.
00:18:42.980 What I know is that the universe began to exist.
00:18:45.700 I don't need to know everything about the universe.
00:18:47.200 I know nothing about the universe.
00:18:48.260 All I need to know is the following.
00:18:49.840 If the universe began to exist, it has a cause.
00:18:53.040 That cause has to be either un-cause or...
00:18:55.800 It might not be that simple.
00:18:58.060 That's the thing.
00:18:58.400 No, no, but you see what you're doing?
00:18:59.700 Why do you not apply?
00:19:01.020 I just want atheists to be consistent.
00:19:02.940 Okay.
00:19:03.280 When you wake up tomorrow, wake up tomorrow, for example, you said with chance all things can happen.
00:19:07.620 Okay.
00:19:08.400 Is there a chance you're a lamppost?
00:19:11.400 Very little.
00:19:12.200 No, no, no, no.
00:19:13.460 No, no, no, no.
00:19:14.420 You said with chance all things are possible, yeah?
00:19:16.380 If I said to you, maybe you are a blue rhino who lives in Mars.
00:19:19.740 Yeah.
00:19:20.040 This is just your different form.
00:19:21.100 Possible?
00:19:21.720 Yeah, possible.
00:19:22.240 Okay, good.
00:19:22.680 Is it possible that you are a sign?
00:19:26.640 Like a...
00:19:26.980 You don't sign board like that.
00:19:28.120 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:28.680 Is there a chance you're a burgher?
00:19:30.700 No, I don't think so.
00:19:31.580 Why not?
00:19:31.980 Why not?
00:19:32.400 Why not?
00:19:33.000 Because we created this thought that was...
00:19:35.400 Thank you.
00:19:36.180 You see what you do?
00:19:36.940 You use your logical rationale to say, it can't be a burgher.
00:19:39.820 But when it comes to God, all things are possible.
00:19:42.660 That's not consistency.
00:19:44.300 But why can't you apply that to God as well?
00:19:46.440 I think there's something deeper here.
00:19:48.180 I don't think it's a logical argument.
00:19:49.120 I think there's maybe you had a bad experience with God.
00:19:51.340 Oh, okay.
00:19:51.940 This can't be logical or rational.
00:19:52.940 You know why?
00:19:53.660 Anyone...
00:19:54.180 Because we use science.
00:19:55.380 Science, we use uniformity, stability to do science.
00:19:58.380 Yeah?
00:19:58.520 In order, the reason you're holding...
00:19:59.740 If you don't mind me holding your cup.
00:20:00.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:00.900 The reason you're holding this...
00:20:02.200 I'm okay.
00:20:02.800 I'm on a bit of a diet.
00:20:04.460 You are.
00:20:05.160 I think you look fine.
00:20:05.980 I think you look fine.
00:20:06.540 Okay.
00:20:07.100 The reason you're holding this is because you are certain that it wouldn't explode.
00:20:10.980 Yeah, yeah.
00:20:11.400 I wouldn't hold it if I was in one of these.
00:20:12.300 Exactly.
00:20:12.940 The reason you put your jacket on is because you know it's not going to randomly turn into an elephant.
00:20:16.660 Yeah, yeah.
00:20:17.060 Absolutely not.
00:20:17.680 That's order.
00:20:18.660 Which means if we didn't have this, we can never do science.
00:20:21.780 When you come and say it can come from nothing, then why don't I walk and be like,
00:20:25.080 elephant just popped into existence.
00:20:26.260 A woman just turned into an ant. 1.00
00:20:27.940 I turned into a chocolate.
00:20:29.080 He becomes a burger.
00:20:30.380 Because we would never be able to do science because science measures things.
00:20:34.320 How can you measure and come to certainties when things are exploding?
00:20:37.300 Imagine a science experiment and before he does the experiment, he's like,
00:20:40.040 okay, there's a cause and effect.
00:20:41.600 Oh, it just turned into a burger.
00:20:43.020 Oh, I'm cheese now.
00:20:45.640 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:20:46.720 Exactly.
00:20:47.380 But isn't the thing about here is that it comes with like the...
00:20:52.120 How many years have gone right?
00:20:54.900 Irrelevant.
00:20:55.340 If you put it in perspective, if you give it a million years, I can actually turn into
00:21:00.220 a burger.
00:21:00.800 No, no.
00:21:01.200 If you put an apple into a box, you close it completely.
00:21:03.760 But can you be a burger instantly now?
00:21:06.200 No, of course not.
00:21:06.860 Good.
00:21:07.140 So what I'm saying is that you just, what you did there is a logical, rational answer.
00:21:13.220 But something that is far greater than that, which is that the universe came from nothing,
00:21:16.740 you're saying, no, it's much more complicated than...
00:21:19.160 Then that means it requires more of a possibility that it came from something than you being
00:21:22.480 a burger.
00:21:22.980 There is more chance of you being a burger than the universe coming from nothing.
00:21:26.120 More chance of you being a burger than the universe coming from nothing.
00:21:28.500 Yes, that is.
00:21:29.000 It is true.
00:21:30.160 It is true.
00:21:31.220 There is.
00:21:31.800 It has to be.
00:21:32.380 Because DNA has information.
00:21:34.080 It requires intelligence.
00:21:35.800 Well...
00:21:36.380 Where does intelligence come from?
00:21:37.800 It comes from like, I don't know, from the...
00:21:41.040 What's more likely?
00:21:41.780 You know what?
00:21:42.220 What is more and more likely is that we, like, we humans have always believed in religion,
00:21:49.500 you know?
00:21:49.840 We have always have gods.
00:21:51.620 Where does that come from?
00:21:52.720 Why do we have this innate disposition to believe in a god?
00:21:54.860 Why?
00:21:55.220 Why not atheists? 0.99
00:21:57.100 Because we want to explain how the universe works.
00:21:59.480 We want to understand it.
00:22:00.340 No, because our brain logically says something must have caused it.
00:22:03.660 No, I don't agree with that.
00:22:04.740 No, no, no.
00:22:05.260 I don't agree with that.
00:22:06.520 Why do we then have the inclination of believing in god then?
00:22:09.020 Sorry?
00:22:09.420 Where does this inclination of believing in god come from?
00:22:11.180 I think that people want to explain things.
00:22:12.220 Like, where are we from?
00:22:12.600 Good.
00:22:13.020 So, the best...
00:22:13.780 It's called influence to the best explanation.
00:22:15.640 Okay.
00:22:16.060 Yes, which means the most logical, rational thing is what?
00:22:18.920 Universe began to exist.
00:22:20.240 Something caused it.
00:22:21.000 But in the beginning, like, for a couple of...
00:22:22.960 Like, a million...
00:22:23.760 Like, a hundred years ago?
00:22:24.840 Yes.
00:22:25.000 A thousand years ago?
00:22:25.720 Yes.
00:22:25.880 We believed that...
00:22:26.560 Like, in Sweden, we believed in the...
00:22:29.060 Odin.
00:22:29.580 Odin and stuff like that.
00:22:30.300 What's Odin?
00:22:30.860 And we were...
00:22:31.300 As certain as you guys are...
00:22:32.920 No problem.
00:22:33.720 As certain as you guys are now...
00:22:35.100 Yes.
00:22:35.480 That God is the one true God.
00:22:37.800 Yes.
00:22:38.640 They were certain that Odin exists.
00:22:40.500 So, as certain as you are...
00:22:41.180 What's the attribute of Mr. Odin?
00:22:42.180 Who's Odin?
00:22:42.840 Tell me the attribute of God.
00:22:43.360 That's their name for God.
00:22:44.340 No, no.
00:22:44.540 They're a pagan God. 0.97
00:22:45.280 We have many different gods.
00:22:46.320 No, no, no.
00:22:46.800 No, no.
00:22:47.160 You have many gods.
00:22:48.160 Good.
00:22:48.720 So, this is why we say...
00:22:50.640 The necessary being that we're talking about...
00:22:53.200 Cannot be them.
00:22:53.800 Like, Christians come and say, Jesus is God. 0.99
00:22:55.380 We say, Jesus was a man.
00:22:57.000 A man is dependent. 0.99
00:22:57.780 That's not completely true, is it?
00:22:59.640 No, it is.
00:23:00.440 No, they believe that.
00:23:01.200 They believe Jesus is God.
00:23:01.840 Yeah, he's God.
00:23:03.560 Yeah.
00:23:04.100 Son of God.
00:23:04.780 Yeah.
00:23:05.280 We say he cannot be God because he's dependent.
00:23:07.200 Anything that's dependent, we don't worship.
00:23:09.000 The one we worship has to be independent because anything that's dependent is in the universe.
00:23:12.400 But you are certain of that now.
00:23:14.200 Of course.
00:23:14.340 You are certain.
00:23:14.880 I am certain.
00:23:15.460 I have evidences towards it.
00:23:16.380 That's the funny thing.
00:23:17.200 But you're also...
00:23:18.060 They were as certain as you are now before the Odin existed.
00:23:21.940 There's...
00:23:22.500 And in a thousand years, we will have another religion that we believe in and think that
00:23:26.320 this is the truth and this is the only truth.
00:23:28.220 There can be false beliefs that can cause you...
00:23:30.300 Exactly.
00:23:30.580 False beliefs can cause you to survive.
00:23:31.980 But for example, if I can say now...
00:23:33.220 Why does that have...
00:23:34.460 Why is not your belief false?
00:23:36.500 Because we have evidence.
00:23:38.600 Very simple.
00:23:39.080 I can prove why Allah... 0.99
00:23:42.080 Allah is not a man or a human being. 1.00
00:23:43.960 Okay.
00:23:44.620 We say that the universe began to exist.
00:23:47.540 If the universe began to exist, the universe is dependent.
00:23:50.900 You cannot have an infinite regress of dependent things.
00:23:54.080 You need a being that is independent, self-sufficient, that gave rise to the universe.
00:23:58.980 Which means...
00:23:59.780 Look at this argument.
00:24:01.040 And this argument why is Allah? 0.58
00:24:02.540 Let me tell you why.
00:24:03.500 Because if the universe began to exist, that means this being has the power of the will
00:24:08.500 to bring the universe to existence.
00:24:11.080 Is there information in our universe?
00:24:13.620 It has to be the all-knowing.
00:24:15.140 Is there energy power in our universe?
00:24:17.360 It has to be the all-powerful.
00:24:18.760 Is there injustice in our universe?
00:24:20.280 It has to be the most just.
00:24:22.320 That's who Allah is.
00:24:23.320 That is our evidence.
00:24:24.520 Because when you look at a painting, you know things about a painting by looking at the paint.
00:24:30.140 You know, for example, somebody made it.
00:24:32.740 That person is clever.
00:24:34.120 He's good at what he does.
00:24:35.540 Just by looking at a painting, there are so many things you know about the painter.
00:24:39.160 So my argument is the following.
00:24:40.680 We look at the universe.
00:24:41.700 I have DNA.
00:24:42.380 DNA is information.
00:24:43.240 Information requires intelligence.
00:24:44.620 That intelligence has to be the one who brought the universe.
00:24:47.480 He has to be the all-knowing.
00:24:48.760 That's why we say Allah. 0.89
00:24:50.620 You agree, but you have no evidence.
00:24:51.480 So the thing is, you do this for a living.
00:24:56.440 No, I understand.
00:24:57.200 And I'm not here to win an argument.
00:24:58.680 I'm not here to make you look wrong.
00:24:59.880 I'm just saying.
00:25:00.560 No, no, no.
00:25:01.040 You have all the best arguments for your spouse.
00:25:04.400 But you're not rational.
00:25:05.460 But if I am wrong, I would like someone to correct me.
00:25:07.660 I'm not here to just talk for the sake of it.
00:25:09.440 If someone can come and say,
00:25:10.900 I would like to see that.
00:25:13.680 And I'm not saying it.
00:25:14.400 Look, genuinely, I'm not here to act smart.
00:25:16.940 I know better.
00:25:17.980 I'm genuinely trying to have a discussion.
00:25:19.840 I'm sorry if it comes across like that.
00:25:21.040 No, no, no.
00:25:21.500 That's fine.
00:25:22.480 I'm not here.
00:25:23.120 Look, I'm learning.
00:25:24.520 And in our religion, we are not taught not to be arrogant.
00:25:26.840 I know.
00:25:27.060 I genuinely, I'm not coming to be like,
00:25:28.660 I know better than you.
00:25:29.480 I'm smarter.
00:25:30.400 Just I'm saying that the most rational, logical explanation for our universe coming has to be a creator.
00:25:34.740 That's what I'm talking about.
00:25:35.680 So forgive me if I came across like,
00:25:37.060 I don't know it all.
00:25:37.580 I don't know it all.
00:25:38.380 You know, you don't.
00:25:38.960 That's my teacher.
00:25:39.680 I learned from him.
00:25:40.480 Is that your teacher?
00:25:41.360 Yes.
00:25:41.620 Oh, it is.
00:25:42.220 Okay.
00:25:42.980 Well, it's beautiful.
00:25:43.880 No, I don't think so.
00:25:44.620 I think it's, but you're better at this.
00:25:46.240 Because like, I do listen to your videos.
00:25:48.880 And I do listen to all of it.
00:25:50.300 Because I think it's interesting.
00:25:51.380 It is.
00:25:51.600 It is.
00:25:51.800 That's why I talk to people like you.
00:25:53.600 It's nice.
00:25:54.080 Because it's not tough because I don't understand it.
00:25:56.960 I've talked a lot with my girlfriend as well.
00:25:58.560 Because she's actually Muslim.
00:26:00.400 Okay.
00:26:00.700 So we talk a lot about that, you know.
00:26:02.400 So it's quite interesting.
00:26:03.440 That's good.
00:26:03.980 Have you read the Quran before?
00:26:04.760 I've read some parts of it, a very little, but not too much, you know.
00:26:09.340 So I think it's, I understand.
00:26:11.300 Like, I read, like, there was a Swedish author who translated it.
00:26:15.500 Okay.
00:26:15.840 And I read some verses, and I understand, like, God is the olive oil in the garden, in the desert, by the finest olive tree, by the finest olive.
00:26:27.340 Oh, yeah, there's a verse in Quran.
00:26:28.960 Yeah, it's a verse in Quran.
00:26:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:30.600 And that made me think, okay, that's what God is for you.
00:26:33.620 It's like the most...
00:26:35.220 Yeah, we believe he's the creator.
00:26:37.200 Yeah, exactly.
00:26:37.580 And it's like, it's very dark.
00:26:38.600 Even when it comes to that, you know, if I, if I today said to you, Max.
00:26:44.000 Yeah.
00:26:44.460 If I say to you, I'm going to give you £5,000 every day.
00:26:46.880 Here's this mansion.
00:26:48.320 Yes.
00:26:48.580 You can live in it.
00:26:49.480 Here's the cars.
00:26:50.280 You can drive them.
00:26:51.700 No problem.
00:26:52.560 Thank you very much.
00:26:53.520 You will make the rule because you are the...
00:26:55.360 No, I would not.
00:26:55.960 I would say to you, no problem.
00:26:57.200 Would you not thank me?
00:26:58.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:58.900 When I call you, would you not pick up?
00:27:00.340 Yeah.
00:27:00.520 Okay, why?
00:27:02.320 Because I'm grateful.
00:27:04.100 You are grateful.
00:27:04.880 Okay.
00:27:05.280 So, let me ask you a question.
00:27:06.920 If I gave you £10 billion, but you're going to die tomorrow, would you take it?
00:27:11.140 No.
00:27:11.660 Why?
00:27:12.420 Because I wouldn't be able to spend them and live them.
00:27:14.400 Because your life that you live for to wake up tomorrow is more precious.
00:27:17.360 Yeah.
00:27:17.660 So, to me, if God is the one that gives me that life, it is far more precious.
00:27:22.380 And if somebody gives you £5,000 a day, you'll be grateful and thanked to him.
00:27:25.520 So, to me, the logical, rational thing is that if God created me, he feeds me, he sustains
00:27:30.520 me, my heart beats, I don't tell my heart to beat, when I'm sleeping, or even I'm awake
00:27:34.100 right now, I don't tell my heart to beat me, or when I'm sleeping in my lungs, every atom
00:27:38.260 that means, if that creator exists, he controls everything he deserves for me to worship him.
00:27:45.200 Okay, okay.
00:27:45.720 Based on that, just the way when I give you money and give you a mansion on these cars,
00:27:49.200 you'll say, you know what, Ali?
00:27:50.540 Ali is a good guy, man.
00:27:51.420 Wherever you go, you're going to say, no, no, no, Ali is a good guy, because of what
00:27:54.960 I've done for you.
00:27:55.700 Yeah.
00:27:56.340 Let alone, we worship God, not because of what he does, but because of who he is.
00:28:01.520 Yeah.
00:28:01.780 Yeah.
00:28:02.060 Anyways.
00:28:02.440 I need to go, man.
00:28:03.300 Yes.
00:28:04.040 He wants to talk.
00:28:05.000 Don't blame me.
00:28:06.360 Sorry about that.
00:28:07.000 I've been talking as well.
00:28:07.580 No, no, sorry, sorry.
00:28:08.460 Thank you.
00:28:08.740 Can I just take a picture?
00:28:09.580 Yeah, sure.
00:28:10.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:10.720 It's a pleasure. 0.94
00:28:13.200 He's going to beat you up, man. 1.00
00:28:14.640 He's going to sit around the corner and start punching you. 0.99
00:28:15.720 I'm going to enjoy a conversation.
00:28:17.500 Did you also have a good conversation?
00:28:19.480 Will I be on YouTube now?
00:28:20.560 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:21.580 Oh, yeah?
00:28:22.480 It was lovely talking to you.
00:28:23.940 Yeah, it was lovely.
00:28:24.560 You're a very nice guy.
00:28:25.480 You too, man.
00:28:26.200 It was really...