Ali Dawah - INTELLIGENT SCIENCE STUDENT CHALLENGES MUSLIM

00:00:00.000 Now, that tail propels at 20,000 RPMs.

00:00:04.000 Okay, it's made out of 40 pieces.

00:00:07.000 If one piece is missing, it would not function.

00:00:09.000 Okay, the question is the following.

00:00:11.000 If there is design, it requires a designer.

00:00:13.000 Simple argument.

00:00:17.000 Did you guys know what the Prophet said?

00:00:19.000 The Prophet said,

00:00:25.000 The one who gives him Sadaqah, his Sadaqah will be a Shaykh on the day of Qiyamah. 0.99

00:00:28.000 And we're here every Friday and Sunday doing Dawah to many people.

00:00:32.000 Alhamdulillah, seven shahadas two weeks ago.

00:00:34.000 Shahadu an la ilaha illallah.

00:00:39.000 Two shahadas last week.

00:00:40.000 Two shahadas last week.

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00:01:00.000 BarakAllahu fikum. 0.73

00:01:01.000 Thank you.

00:01:02.000 Keep up the good work.

00:01:03.000 Thank you.

00:01:04.000 Have you read the Quran before, sister?

00:01:05.000 No.

00:01:06.000 Can I give you a free copy?

00:01:07.000 Oh, you know, no.

00:01:09.000 I'm just not religious.

00:01:10.000 That's fine.

00:01:11.000 Is there a reason you're not?

00:01:12.000 Do you believe in God?

00:01:13.000 No.

00:01:14.000 You don't believe in God?

00:01:15.000 I can prove God exists in two minutes.

00:01:17.000 Yes.

00:01:18.000 Have you got two minutes?

00:01:19.000 No.

00:01:20.000 Okay, all right.

00:01:21.000 No problem.

00:01:22.000 Let me give you something to do with nature.

00:01:27.000 Mm-hmm.

00:01:28.000 Let's talk about...

00:01:30.000 Let's talk about bees.

00:01:32.000 You know bees?

00:01:33.000 This is...

00:01:34.000 Okay, good.

00:01:35.000 Do you know bees have intelligence?

00:01:36.000 So, for example, the way the bees find nectar is that they all go out in different directions

00:01:40.000 from the colony.

00:01:42.000 And what they do is when the bee goes to a specific distance, so let's suppose the hive

00:01:45.000 is here, and it travels to Oxford Circus.

00:01:49.000 It realizes there's nectar there.

00:01:51.000 It comes back.

00:01:52.000 When it comes back, there was a man called a...

00:01:54.000 I think it was a German biologist.

00:01:56.000 His name was Karl von Frisch.

00:01:58.000 So he was observing them, and he was realizing that when we look at the bees, it looks like

00:02:01.000 they are dancing.

00:02:02.000 I mean, not dancing, it's just they're scattered around.

00:02:04.000 But when you look closely, the bee that went and found the nectar, when he comes back,

00:02:08.000 he actually starts to wiggle his tail and dance in a specific pattern.

00:02:11.000 So he was like, why are they doing that?

00:02:13.000 So when he noticed and did that, he was looking at them, he put a specific mark on the back

00:02:17.000 of the bee to observe them.

00:02:19.000 And then he realized that bees have a solar compass, so they know where the sun is, and

00:02:24.000 that's how they use the directions to find the nectar.

00:02:27.000 The bee, when it was dancing, it was telling the other bees in the colony the direction and

00:02:32.000 the distance of where the nectar is.

00:02:34.000 Now, would you accept that that bee has intelligence?

00:02:38.000 Yeah.

00:02:39.000 It's just like natural selection, isn't it?

00:02:41.000 Okay.

00:02:42.000 It's just developed that behavior.

00:02:44.000 Okay.

00:02:45.000 So recent studies show, I don't know if you've heard of someone called...

00:02:48.000 Oh, I forgot his name.

00:02:50.000 Noble.

00:02:51.000 Dennis Noble.

00:02:52.000 He's a scientist.

00:02:55.000 He's kind of against the Darwin theory, Dawkins theory.

00:02:59.000 He doesn't believe in natural selection, he believes in targeted selection.

00:03:03.000 So what they notice is that, for example, you have the, you know, the cell.

00:03:07.000 Yeah.

00:03:08.000 So Darwin, when he was talking about the cell, he talked about the cell as if it's something

00:03:11.000 very simple.

00:03:12.000 And over time, it developed to be something complex.

00:03:14.000 We believe that's not true now.

00:03:15.000 Because Dennis Noble, when he studies the cell, he realizes the following.

00:03:18.000 So imagine my hand is the nucleus, because you know the cell has a nucleus.

00:03:22.000 So imagine the nucleus is my hand.

00:03:24.000 And imagine the membrane of the cell is in Scotland.

00:03:27.000 Yeah.

00:03:28.000 He realized that when he looks closely, there's something called, I think they're called tubelins,

00:03:32.000 which is that the cell membrane sends information to the nucleus.

00:03:36.000 Now, what's in the nucleus is genomes.

00:03:38.000 Yes.

00:03:39.000 And there's genes inside it, which have the DNA.

00:03:41.000 Now, do you know DNA?

00:03:43.000 The DNA has information.

00:03:44.000 Now, information requires intelligence.

00:03:47.000 Am I correct?

00:03:48.000 Yeah.

00:03:49.000 Good.

00:03:50.000 The question I'm asking is the following.

00:03:51.000 No, but it's red by proteins.

00:03:53.000 It's red by proteins.

00:03:54.000 Okay.

00:03:55.000 Reading means what?

00:03:56.000 No, but it's not actually red.

00:03:57.000 It's each one of the bases.

00:03:59.000 Yeah.

00:04:00.000 The triplet.

00:04:01.000 It's because it's the codon.

00:04:02.000 Yes.

00:04:03.000 It codes for a specific amino acid.

00:04:04.000 Yes.

00:04:05.000 And then the chain of them.

00:04:06.000 Exactly.

00:04:07.000 And then you've got the different forms of structure.

00:04:08.000 Perfect.

00:04:09.000 It's all to do with the bonding between the molecules.

00:04:11.000 Okay.

00:04:12.000 Covenant bonding.

00:04:13.000 Perfect.

00:04:14.000 Good.

00:04:15.000 How can it not be?

00:04:16.000 How can it not be?

00:04:17.000 Look, you said to me, bonding, reading, and also it has proofreading.

00:04:20.000 Do you know it has proofreading?

00:04:21.000 For example, you know that, you know when the DNA from the chromosomes.

00:04:24.000 It's a stop codon.

00:04:25.000 And it just, it literally, it doesn't code for anything.

00:04:28.000 It just makes it pause, and then it creates the next chain.

00:04:31.000 Okay.

00:04:32.000 But when you say it creates, what gave it that prior knowledge for it to do the action?

00:04:38.000 Because the DNA, look, you know when the chromosomes meet together?

00:04:41.000 You know when the DNA replicates?

00:04:42.000 How many?

00:04:43.000 There are mistakes from one in every 10,000.

00:04:45.000 There are billions of copying.

00:04:46.000 Is that a mutation?

00:04:47.000 No, no, no.

00:04:48.000 One second.

00:04:49.000 Look, there's random mutation, and we're saying about targeted mutation, yeah?

00:04:52.000 What I'm saying is that, you know when the copying happens?

00:04:54.000 Usually there are errors, one in every 10,000.

00:04:57.000 But it's not necessarily an error.

00:04:59.000 It's really, it's a good thing.

00:05:00.000 It's why we have mutations, and it's like crossing over between the chromosomes.

00:05:04.000 Okay, good.

00:05:05.000 So, what I'm just saying is the following.

00:05:07.000 So, whatever you want to call it, there's mistakes that happen, and they're one in 10,000

00:05:11.000 scientists usually say.

00:05:12.000 Now, what happens is one in 10,000 is okay, but when there are billions of copies happening,

00:05:16.000 those one in 10,000 turns into millions.

00:05:19.000 Now, good.

00:05:20.000 Something interesting happens when that happens.

00:05:22.000 It goes through another proofreader near the cell, near the membrane, if I'm not mistaken.

00:05:27.000 It reduces this mistake from one in 10,000 to one in 10 billion.

00:05:32.000 The question I have to ask is the following.

00:05:34.000 All of this mechanism that we see, all of this copying and error correcting, this is an order.

00:05:41.000 Now, the question I'm asking is the following, my dear sister.

00:05:44.000 DNA has information.

00:05:45.000 Yes or wrong?

00:05:46.000 Am I correct?

00:05:47.000 Yeah.

00:05:48.000 Information requires intelligence.

00:05:49.000 Am I right or wrong?

00:05:50.000 Not necessarily.

00:05:52.000 Can you give me one example anywhere that information doesn't require intelligence?

00:05:57.000 But I wouldn't, you know, we've described it as information because that's how our interpretation

00:06:02.000 of it, but it's really just to do with the way that it all interacts with each other.

00:06:07.000 But how, okay.

00:06:08.000 So, if I see, for example, let me give you an example.

00:06:11.000 There was a, there's a scientist called Michael Behe.

00:06:14.000 He talks about the flagellum.

00:06:16.000 Flagellum is the tail of a bacteria.

00:06:18.000 Okay.

00:06:19.000 It is composed of 40 pieces.

00:06:21.000 If I showed you the picture and I did not tell you what this is, you will say this is

00:06:25.000 a probably, it looks like an engine.

00:06:26.000 It's like a motor.

00:06:27.000 Now, the question is the following.

00:06:29.000 When I bring you a engine of a Ferrari and we look at it and go, wow, it's composed of

00:06:33.000 so many parts.

00:06:34.000 That looks like, someone smart done that.

00:06:37.000 We're talking about a flagellum that on a teaspoon, 4 billion of them can fit in.

00:06:41.000 That's how it's on a nano level.

00:06:43.000 Yeah.

00:06:44.000 And you're a smart woman.

00:06:45.000 Now, that tail propels at 20,000 RPMs.

00:06:49.000 Okay.

00:06:50.000 It's made out of 40 pieces.

00:06:52.000 If one piece is missing, it would not function.

00:06:54.000 Okay.

00:06:55.000 The question is the following.

00:06:56.000 It is a motor.

00:06:57.000 It's composed of 40 pieces.

00:06:59.000 It has a, it propels the bacteria.

00:07:02.000 That shows the design.

00:07:04.000 If there is design, it requires a designer.

00:07:06.000 Simple argument.

00:07:07.000 Not necessarily.

00:07:08.000 But you need to tell me why and I'll accept it.

00:07:10.000 It has to do with, um, coincidence and the fact that there, like, if you think about

00:07:14.000 and probability and the fact that the universe, if you, if you believe the universe is, you

00:07:19.000 know, infinitely large, then there are infinite possibilities for things to happen and, you

00:07:23.000 know, and eventually, like, life will just occur.

00:07:27.000 Okay.

00:07:28.000 Things.

00:07:29.000 Okay.

00:07:30.000 I forgot your name.

00:07:31.000 Dana.

00:07:32.000 Sister Dana.

00:07:33.000 From a logical, logical and rational point of view, you're a very smart, intelligent

00:07:36.000 girl.

00:07:37.000 Do you think we can call it a coincidence when you said the universe is so vast, all things

00:07:41.000 are possible?

00:07:42.000 Let me give you an example.

00:07:43.000 If a thing to make arguments, if I said, I want a Ferrari and I have this cup and it's

00:07:49.000 empty, there's nothing in it.

00:07:50.000 No atoms, nothing.

00:07:52.000 What has time and infinite possibilities got to do with making something that the elements

00:07:58.000 to make that thing is not in the cup?

00:08:00.000 For example, if I have nothing in the cup, giving it a billion amount of years is irrelevant

00:08:05.000 to the equation because the elements to make a Ferrari or a strawberry cheesecake or a building,

00:08:10.000 if it's not in that cup, time is irrelevant to the equation.

00:08:14.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?

00:08:15.000 I'm not going to be able to explain to you how energy and matter initially started.

00:08:19.000 Good.

00:08:20.000 But we do know it started.

00:08:21.000 Yeah.

00:08:22.000 But if you look at this, within the sun, you've got hydrogens coming together to form

00:08:27.000 helium.

00:08:28.000 You can create things that don't exist prior, like elements can be created.

00:08:34.000 But the fact that they interact and become this thing shows that it has the properties

00:08:39.000 for that to develop.

00:08:40.000 The point we're seeing is the following.

00:08:41.000 I get what you're saying.

00:08:42.000 If there's absolutely nothing.

00:08:43.000 Yes.

00:08:44.000 What I'm talking about is the absence of something.

00:08:46.000 We know the universe began to exist.

00:08:48.000 The question we're asking is, what caused it to begin?

00:08:52.000 Because we look around us, if we want to be morally, if we want to be consistent,

00:08:56.000 look, you use a rationality and logic today.

00:08:58.000 You came here today, you walked past and said, oh my God, I know that guy.

00:09:01.000 He's on TikTok.

00:09:02.000 Yeah.

00:09:03.000 Okay.

00:09:04.000 You didn't say, oh my gosh, maybe he's in the matrix.

00:09:05.000 Maybe he doesn't even exist.

00:09:06.000 Maybe I'm not real.

00:09:07.000 You use your rationality and logic today.

00:09:09.000 When you're going to cross that road, you're going to look left and right.

00:09:11.000 Am I right or wrong?

00:09:12.000 Well, I hope you do.

00:09:13.000 I got hit by a car not that long ago.

00:09:16.000 Was you looking left or right?

00:09:17.000 I don't even know.

00:09:18.000 Okay.

00:09:19.000 It was his fault.

00:09:20.000 Okay.

00:09:21.000 Again, that was an accident.

00:09:23.000 So I hope you're well, yeah?

00:09:24.000 I'm good.

00:09:25.000 Yeah, that's good.

00:09:26.000 So the point I'm saying is this, sister.

00:09:27.000 When you woke up in the morning, you knew you was in your bed.

00:09:29.000 Yeah.

00:09:30.000 You knew when you go downstairs.

00:09:31.000 What's your preferred breakfast?

00:09:32.000 I don't eat breakfast.

00:09:33.000 I don't blame you.

00:09:34.000 But is there anything you do in the morning?

00:09:36.000 Yeah, just whatever, yeah.

00:09:37.000 Coffee?

00:09:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:39.000 Okay, good.

00:09:40.000 You know when you go down, if you went to your coffee machine, opened it and saw a rectangular

00:09:44.000 looking object, you're going to think, what on earth is that?

00:09:47.000 Yeah.

00:09:48.000 Oh, that's a possibility.

00:09:49.000 We live in a universe that all things can happen.

00:09:51.000 It's like, we won't be able to do science.

00:09:53.000 Do you get it?

00:09:54.000 Yeah.

00:09:55.000 I understand what you're saying about, like, that it's just, like, it makes sense.

00:09:58.000 There's order.

00:09:59.000 Yes.

00:10:00.000 Stability, uniformity.

00:10:01.000 I don't remember exactly, but there's something about, like, the watchmaker and, like, how...

00:10:05.000 Yeah, they talk about the watchmaker's argument, yes.

00:10:07.000 All that stuff.

00:10:08.000 I do understand that, but also, for me, it's more just like, I can't prove the non-existence

00:10:13.000 of something, so I feel like it's up to the religious person to prove the existence of

00:10:18.000 it.

00:10:19.000 Okay, but do you not think as a person...

00:10:20.000 Because I could just, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the flying spaghetti

00:10:23.000 monster and all of these things.

00:10:24.000 But, yes.

00:10:25.000 Like, I...

00:10:26.000 You can't prove to me that that doesn't exist.

00:10:27.000 You can't prove to me that these things...

00:10:29.000 I can.

00:10:30.000 I can, because the thing is, what I'm saying is the following.

00:10:31.000 Well, in the same way that I can't prove to you that God doesn't exist.

00:10:33.000 I can...

00:10:34.000 I can prove to you God exists.

00:10:35.000 Now, the thing is, I believe you're having a great leap of faith, because usually that should

00:10:39.000 come from us religious people.

00:10:40.000 Just put your faith in God and...

00:10:41.000 No.

00:10:42.000 No.

00:10:43.000 As Muslims, we're a little bit different.

00:10:44.000 We say, hold on a second, Allah tells us in the Quran, use your rational and logical...

00:10:48.000 Allah doesn't tell us, have blind faith and jump. 0.94

00:10:50.000 That's the reason why I'm trying to provoke you a little bit.

00:10:52.000 In the sense where, you're having a great leap of faith.

00:10:55.000 You're saying, you know, I don't know and just...

00:10:57.000 I'm saying, let's talk with certainties.

00:10:59.000 We accept that if there's information, there has to be intelligence.

00:11:02.000 If there is something, everything you're wearing right now, even that lily on your hair,

00:11:07.000 has a purpose.

00:11:08.000 You get what I'm trying to say?

00:11:09.000 So, the point is this, my dear sister.

00:11:11.000 Seeing that, for example, there are things that you don't see that you believe in.

00:11:15.000 Your consciousness.

00:11:17.000 Do you have a consciousness?

00:11:19.000 Yeah, but I often don't fully understand what consciousness actually is.

00:11:23.000 Okay.

00:11:24.000 But do you believe...

00:11:25.000 No.

00:11:26.000 Do you believe you have consciousness?

00:11:27.000 Yeah.

00:11:28.000 Okay, can I see it?

00:11:29.000 Can I touch it?

00:11:30.000 No, I'm not saying that you necessarily need to have the five senses.

00:11:32.000 Perfect.

00:11:33.000 There are things that are metaphysical.

00:11:34.000 Perfect.

00:11:35.000 Like, you know, believing in, like, love or...

00:11:38.000 Yes.

00:11:39.000 And money, to be honest.

00:11:40.000 Yeah.

00:11:41.000 It doesn't actually have the value we assign it to it.

00:11:43.000 Exactly.

00:11:44.000 Yes.

00:11:45.000 So, I'm not saying that it's just the five basic senses, but...

00:11:48.000 Perfect.

00:11:49.000 I don't know.

00:11:50.000 Exactly.

00:11:51.000 But just, I'm going to wrap up.

00:11:52.000 I know you're cold.

00:11:53.000 It's freezing as well.

00:11:54.000 Okay, sorry.

00:11:55.000 Yeah.

00:11:56.000 So, what I'm trying to say is this, sister.

00:11:57.000 If you think about it, scientists and people...

00:11:59.000 And science doesn't actually...

00:12:00.000 If you look at Darwin's book, he said, in my wildest extreme fluctuations, he was never

00:12:05.000 a denier of God.

00:12:06.000 Did you know that?

00:12:07.000 He was actually a person who believed in God.

00:12:09.000 If you read his books, he became agnostic when it came to seeing evil in the world.

00:12:14.000 Yeah.

00:12:15.000 But when it came to his evolutionary theory, he never...

00:12:18.000 His wildest part...

00:12:19.000 That's why he was really scared to publish his findings, because he was like, oh no,

00:12:22.000 I've killed God.

00:12:23.000 Like, I've just... 0.87

00:12:24.000 And then he found out that someone else was about to publish it, and he was like, okay,

00:12:27.000 let me quickly do the origin of species.

00:12:29.000 Good.

00:12:30.000 He was scared of the church, yeah?

00:12:31.000 Yeah.

00:12:32.000 But he always had belief in God.

00:12:34.000 So, the point I'm saying is, just looking at it from a logical perspective, yeah?

00:12:38.000 Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

00:12:40.000 The universe began to exist, it requires a cause.

00:12:43.000 I feel like we're using our basic understanding.

00:12:46.000 Like, even that thing about, like, everything needs to have a cause.

00:12:49.000 Everything that begins to exist.

00:12:50.000 Yeah, but it's just like, we're only saying that based off of what we can observe, what

00:12:54.000 we've got in front of us.

00:12:56.000 But that's how we do science.

00:12:57.000 Otherwise we can't do science.

00:12:58.000 I know.

00:12:59.000 But I think, okay, so my little thing is like, if we...

00:13:02.000 I believe that if every single, like, religious or fictional, whatever it is, like books,

00:13:06.000 stories, anything, completely cease to exist, if you came back in billions of years' time,

00:13:11.000 whatever, it wouldn't come back exactly as it was.

00:13:13.000 I don't believe the Koran or the Bible or whatever it is would come back exactly as

00:13:17.000 it is.

00:13:18.000 However, if you got rid of every single element of scientific understanding, if you came back,

00:13:22.000 it would all exist again.

00:13:23.000 Maybe under slightly different, like, understanding of it.

00:13:26.000 Okay.

00:13:27.000 Because whenever you do the same experiment, you get the same result.

00:13:30.000 True.

00:13:31.000 If you drop something, it will always come to the ground.

00:13:33.000 Causing effect.

00:13:34.000 Yeah.

00:13:35.000 Okay, good.

00:13:36.000 No, but what I'm saying is that's why, for me, I just love science and I feel like I'm

00:13:39.000 very happy just believing that...

00:13:41.000 I'm a Muslim.

00:13:42.000 I have no problem with science.

00:13:44.000 Yeah.

00:13:45.000 I need science in my life.

00:13:46.000 And not only that, there were many Muslim scientists in history who've done science.

00:13:50.000 Like, if you do a bit of research, a lot of Muslims were involved in Mathematical Algebra. 0.94

00:13:54.000 Of course.

00:13:55.000 Exactly.

00:13:56.000 So, we Muslims were not...

00:13:57.000 It's not like the church, Christians. 1.00

00:13:58.000 We were against it.

00:13:59.000 I don't think about Islam.

00:14:00.000 So, Christian.

00:14:01.000 Thank you.

00:14:02.000 One question I'll just quickly answer.

00:14:03.000 The Koran is the only scripture that will also come back because it's been memorised

00:14:05.000 by millions.

00:14:06.000 But I know what you're trying to say when it comes to observable reality.

00:14:09.000 But what I'm saying is, even if we put all the religions to our side, we came back 0.94

00:14:12.000 here a billion years later, we will still see cause and effect.

00:14:15.000 We will still look around and say, hold on a second, uniformity, regularity.

00:14:18.000 In order for us to do science, we need these things.

00:14:20.000 So, you're right.

00:14:21.000 But guess what?

00:14:22.000 Science will only lead us closer to God.

00:14:24.000 Because when you look at a snowflake, why does a snowflake have a symmetrical pattern?

00:14:27.000 Yeah.

00:14:28.000 Well, I mean...

00:14:29.000 No, I know what you're saying.

00:14:30.000 Do you get what you're trying to say?

00:14:31.000 There's so many...

00:14:32.000 Wherever you look from a nano level to a macro level.

00:14:34.000 But I feel like you can just...

00:14:35.000 I can just say that this is nature.

00:14:37.000 This is the world.

00:14:38.000 This is just world.

00:14:39.000 But why not God?

00:14:40.000 Why is it nature but not God?

00:14:41.000 Because I'm trying to understand.

00:14:42.000 You can call it nature, evolution.

00:14:44.000 Why can it not be like, you know what?

00:14:46.000 Just point to an intelligent design.

00:14:48.000 No, but it's just like, if there is a God, I think he's evil.

00:14:51.000 Okay, good.

00:14:52.000 Because...

00:14:53.000 Now we're talking.

00:14:54.000 If there is a God.

00:14:55.000 Okay.

00:14:56.000 Why?

00:14:57.000 I just think that there are so many terrible, terrible things.

00:14:58.000 Like, why would you create, like, insects that, like, fall, like, feed off the eyes of children

00:15:03.000 and, like, all these disgusting diseases.

00:15:04.000 Yes, yes.

00:15:05.000 It's just like very, very terrible things.

00:15:06.000 Why?

00:15:07.000 Why?

00:15:08.000 I understand that, like...

00:15:09.000 I understand there has to be some, like, evil, maybe, whatever.

00:15:11.000 So, there are just some things that it's just like, what is going on here?

00:15:14.000 If there is a God, we're clearly just, like, entertaining them for it.

00:15:17.000 And he's just like, let me just create some nonsense.

00:15:19.000 Okay. 1.00

00:15:20.000 And just laugh at these idiots. 1.00

00:15:22.000 That's what... 1.00

00:15:23.000 That's how Darwin was.

00:15:24.000 Darwin had the same problems as you.

00:15:25.000 And now look, let me tell you something.

00:15:27.000 The God that I worship, I do not believe is a God that puts us here.

00:15:30.000 Because Allah says in the Quran, I did not create you for play. 0.87

00:15:33.000 I did not create you so I could just, you know...

00:15:35.000 No, no, no.

00:15:36.000 So, what it is this.

00:15:37.000 For example, we believe that God Almighty is also the all-knowing and is also the most wise.

00:15:43.000 Let me give you an example.

00:15:44.000 There are certain things that has happened in your life, in my life.

00:15:46.000 For example, getting hit by a car.

00:15:48.000 Yeah?

00:15:49.000 I don't think it was pleasant.

00:15:50.000 So, there's things that's happened in my life, but let me tell you something.

00:15:53.000 There's things that I cannot comprehend and understand.

00:15:55.000 But once I came out of that test, I truly understood what it did for me.

00:16:00.000 Now, you cannot know what's beautiful until you see what's ugly.

00:16:03.000 So, for example, when we talk about...

00:16:08.000 When we talk about good and bad, my dear sister, because you do not believe in a life after death,

00:16:13.000 the God that we worship, we say...

00:16:15.000 For example, like...

00:16:17.000 See that picture there?

00:16:18.000 Imagine that was a drawing painted by someone, yeah?

00:16:21.000 I will know a lot about the painter by looking at a picture.

00:16:24.000 Why?

00:16:25.000 Because I know, number one, that painter exists.

00:16:27.000 He willed to paint that.

00:16:28.000 Number three, he's good at what he does.

00:16:29.000 Number four, oh my gosh, look at the attention to detail.

00:16:31.000 I know so much about the painter just by looking at the picture.

00:16:35.000 So...

00:16:36.000 So what you're saying is by looking at the earth and the design, he gets to know the design.

00:16:40.000 Yes.

00:16:41.000 Do you know what I know?

00:16:42.000 Number one, the universe began to exist.

00:16:44.000 There's a being that exists.

00:16:46.000 Number two, he had to will the universe to exist.

00:16:48.000 Number three, there is information in the universe.

00:16:50.000 He has to be the all-knowing.

00:16:51.000 Number four, coming to what you said, there is evil in the world.

00:16:55.000 If there's evil, that means God has to be the all-wise.

00:16:58.000 There are people that don't necessarily believe in evil and good either.

00:17:01.000 I think I'm not going to get...

00:17:04.000 It's not nihilism, it's one of them.

00:17:06.000 I'm not going to get it right.

00:17:07.000 Okay, that's fine.

00:17:08.000 But it's the one where they just don't...

00:17:09.000 They think that we are essentially giving some kind of label to things.

00:17:13.000 Like nothing is actually good or bad and it's just sort of there.

00:17:15.000 Yes, yes.

00:17:16.000 So I did a bit of research on this, but you're talking about, for example, when it comes to morality, there is no good or bad.

00:17:20.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:17:21.000 Okay, but when you go down that route, what's the difference between me eating a chocolate butt and killing somebody? 0.97

00:17:26.000 They are rearranging with atoms. 0.95

00:17:27.000 This is when then life has no value.

00:17:29.000 That's why if you look at Hitler, he believed in eugenics. 0.87

00:17:31.000 Eugenics means the greater way, if you get what you're going to say. 0.96

00:17:33.000 So then, that's why a lot of atheists have done a lot of atrocities. 1.00

00:17:36.000 When you look at the killing, atheists have killed more... 1.00

00:17:39.000 Well, it's Christianity number one. 1.00

00:17:41.000 Christianity is number one.

00:17:42.000 If you start saying that morality only exists...

00:17:46.000 Objective morality.

00:17:47.000 Yeah, but if you say that only exists because of religion, then I think that's a really dangerous road to go down.

00:17:51.000 Because then it's like, okay, then if you weren't religious, would you be...

00:17:54.000 No, because we believe in...

00:17:56.000 I don't have a religion.

00:17:58.000 I don't believe in any God.

00:17:59.000 I'm not following anything.

00:18:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:02.000 And I've gone out and murdered as many people as I wanted to.

00:18:05.000 Which is zero people.

00:18:06.000 Exactly.

00:18:07.000 Because I just don't want to know anyone.

00:18:08.000 Exactly.

00:18:09.000 I don't think it's fair to say that, for example, just because someone's an atheist, that means they are more prone to do evil.

00:18:13.000 Because there are religious people doing more evil than any atheist. 1.00

00:18:15.000 Yeah.

00:18:16.000 Good. So I'm not even making that up.

00:18:17.000 That won't be fair.

00:18:18.000 What I'm saying is the following, though.

00:18:19.000 In order for us to have objective morality, we need it to come from a source that is objective.

00:18:22.000 That is free from public human opinion.

00:18:24.000 So with us, for example, today, you would agree that, for example, homosexuality is fine. 0.98

00:18:29.000 Yeah.

00:18:30.000 Good. Look.

00:18:31.000 Okay.

00:18:32.000 Trans, somebody... 1.00

00:18:33.000 A child identifying as saying, I feel like a woman.

00:18:35.000 A child may be a little bit more...

00:18:37.000 Why?

00:18:38.000 Okay.

00:18:39.000 Do you remember when we went to morality?

00:18:40.000 There is no good or bad.

00:18:41.000 No, because I feel like there's a certain level of influence and it's like, I think that's

00:18:43.000 a bit of a dangerous road to go on.

00:18:45.000 But, when it comes to people identifying as whatever they want to identify as, I personally

00:18:50.000 feel like, just, you only get to live once.

00:18:53.000 Do what you want to do.

00:18:54.000 Yeah.

00:18:55.000 We follow that lifestyle as well.

00:18:57.000 We believe, you only live once, do as many good deeds as you can.

00:19:00.000 Yeah.

00:19:01.000 It's a different way.

00:19:02.000 But what we say is this, like, for example, what about incest?

00:19:04.000 Oh.

00:19:05.000 Like, imagine a brother and sister having intimacy.

00:19:08.000 Do you know what? 0.94

00:19:09.000 That is obviously very disgusting.

00:19:11.000 Why?

00:19:12.000 And I personally think that's really wrong.

00:19:14.000 However, I actually wouldn't be able to back it up.

00:19:16.000 Good.

00:19:17.000 Especially if they're not going to be able to have children.

00:19:19.000 I would...

00:19:20.000 That's my point.

00:19:21.000 It's actually, they're not as victimless, so it's a bit like...

00:19:24.000 And if they love each other, because when it comes to love is love, why does the LGBTQ 1.00

00:19:27.000 community not adopt an I in there?

00:19:29.000 Instead of...

00:19:30.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?

00:19:31.000 And say, we're all for incest, because love is love.

00:19:33.000 But do you see, they even draw a line and say...

00:19:34.000 No, but to be fair, no, because then it, like, creates really...

00:19:36.000 It's not good for society.

00:19:38.000 Use protection.

00:19:39.000 Use protection.

00:19:40.000 No, I know, but it's not good for society.

00:19:41.000 It's not good for, like, families and just sort of, like, mentally as well.

00:19:44.000 It's really bad.

00:19:46.000 There are studies that show, like, for example, same-sex couples, like, how the children perform.

00:19:52.000 It's very similar.

00:19:53.000 Like, they don't perform really well.

00:19:55.000 Same-sex couples as well.

00:19:56.000 But the point I'm saying is this.

00:19:57.000 That's why we need objective morality.

00:19:59.000 Because otherwise, everything, like, if you lived in Nazi Germany, me and you may have

00:20:03.000 been like, you know what, that's great what they did to the Jews. 0.98

00:20:05.000 So that's why... 0.91

00:20:06.000 They killed us.

00:20:07.000 Well, exactly.

00:20:08.000 So that's why we need objective morality to tell us right from wrong.

00:20:11.000 And it comes from an objective source.

00:20:13.000 So my argument in a nutshell is this.

00:20:15.000 From morality to rationality to where things come from, from cause and effect to all of these

00:20:20.000 things, a higher being makes perfect sense.

00:20:22.000 It's not a matter of leap of faith.

00:20:24.000 And as a person who does science and believes in science, that should rather propel you,

00:20:29.000 like a flagellum, closer to God.

00:20:33.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:20:34.000 I don't know.

00:20:35.000 I just don't believe in God.

00:20:37.000 No, that's fine.

00:20:38.000 That's fine.

00:20:39.000 Anyone can really convince me.

00:20:40.000 Yeah, that's fine.

00:20:41.000 The religion that I would ever potentially join is Buddhism.

00:20:43.000 Because I don't really see it as a religion.

00:20:44.000 I see it as more of a philosophy.

00:20:46.000 Yeah.

00:20:47.000 I don't really necessarily believe in a God or a God.

00:20:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:51.000 They have elements of like karma.

00:20:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:54.000 Connectivity.

00:20:55.000 Yeah.

00:20:56.000 And how like your actions and consequences and all of that stuff.

00:20:59.000 Yeah.

00:21:00.000 So I think that for me is quite appealing.

00:21:01.000 Okay, that's good.

00:21:02.000 I mean, I would say don't put every religion into the same category.

00:21:04.000 A lot of people do it.

00:21:05.000 Like they leave Christianity and they think, oh, Islam is probably just the same. 0.98

00:21:08.000 No, it's not.

00:21:09.000 Give it a chance because I came to Islam 11 years ago and I read all religions.

00:21:13.000 I just really wanted to deep dive into it.

00:21:15.000 And the Qur'an, I chose the Qur'an because number one, it's been preserved.

00:21:18.000 It has been changed.

00:21:19.000 Number two, it has evidences within it to prove its existence, why it's from God Almighty.

00:21:23.000 It's not a blind faith of closure.

00:21:25.000 I think it's definitely a bit more powerful than Christianity. 0.97

00:21:28.000 Even then, I definitely have a bit of a complicated relationship with Islam. 0.82

00:21:32.000 No, no, no.

00:21:33.000 I'm Persian and like the situation is very interesting.

00:21:37.000 I see, I see, I see, I see.

00:21:38.000 Are you Iranian?

00:21:39.000 Yeah, I'm Iranian.

00:21:40.000 Okay, okay, yeah.

00:21:41.000 That's fine, I understand the thing.

00:21:42.000 So there's like...

00:21:43.000 So my mum is like...

00:21:44.000 Oh yeah, hun.

00:21:45.000 Yeah, yeah, hun.

00:21:46.000 She's left that country.

00:21:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:48.000 Anselm, we are against the regime and it's like, you know, certain things that they do,

00:21:51.000 et cetera.

00:21:52.000 I'm sure you're like Sunni anyway. 1.00

00:21:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:54.000 We're Sunni, yeah.

00:21:55.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:56.000 So yeah, 100%, but I would say, do not take God out of the picture.

00:21:59.000 Believe me, there is sufficient and more than enough evidence that DNA that you're talking

00:22:03.000 about, the fact the way you look, the way you look and the way I look, my eyes, your teeth,

00:22:07.000 all of these things, it's not random mutation, it is targeted mutation because, do you get

00:22:11.000 what I'm trying to say?

00:22:12.000 Because the cells communicate with each other and that's the reason why, which shows you

00:22:15.000 that there has to be intelligent design.

00:22:17.000 Now, new scientists are coming out and saying, look, there has, come on.

00:22:21.000 I mean, there's intelligent design, there's things working in order.

00:22:24.000 Yeah.

00:22:25.000 Yeah.

00:22:26.000 But no, thank you, sister.

00:22:27.000 Any questions for me?

00:22:28.000 Anything?

00:22:29.000 Not necessarily.

00:22:30.000 I just wanted to say, like, thank you for, obviously, like, I'm, I don't think I'm

00:22:33.000 going to, like, over, like, convert to his love or anything, but.

00:22:36.000 You know, inshallah one day.

00:22:37.000 But, but, I do love listening to your passion and your, I think the way that you were talking

00:22:43.000 as well.

00:22:44.000 Thank you, sister.

00:22:45.000 Thank you.

00:22:46.000 I really appreciate it.

00:22:47.000 We're here every Friday and Sunday.

00:22:48.000 Thank you.

00:22:49.000 If you ever want to come and talk, feel free.

00:22:50.000 Thank you, sister.

00:22:51.000 Take care.

00:22:52.000 Bye bye.

00:22:53.000 I mean, I'll be honest with you, that was one of the most holistic discussions that

00:22:56.000 had intelligence.

00:22:57.000 She knew, she knew, she knew about the DNA, etc.

00:23:00.000 And it was good because, you know, when you talk to some people, they don't know what

00:23:02.000 you're talking about.

00:23:03.000 It was good.

00:23:04.000 She was like, no, this, that, that, etc. 0.96

00:23:05.000 But again, it further proved that God Almighty exists.

00:23:08.000 Alhamdulillah.

00:23:09.000 So, brothers and sisters, Alhamdulillah, as you can see, this is why dawah is so important.

00:23:12.000 Oh my gosh, it's quarter past seven.

00:23:14.000 I don't think we're going to be having hot chocolate today.

00:23:16.000 Chubby, in 45 minutes, if we raise the target, we might do.

Ali Dawah - October 22, 2024

INTELLIGENT SCIENCE STUDENT CHALLENGES MUSLIM

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