Ali Dawah - October 22, 2024INTELLIGENT SCIENCE STUDENT CHALLENGES MUSLIM
Episode Stats
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Summary
Jummah Kutbahayah: Is there a Designer? Is God a Designer or not? Do bees have intelligence? What is evolution? How do we know that God exists? Why do we believe in natural selection?
Transcript
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If one piece is missing, it would not function.
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The one who gives him Sadaqah, his Sadaqah will be a Shaykh on the day of Qiyamah.
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So, for example, the way the bees find nectar is that they all go out in different directions
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And what they do is when the bee goes to a specific distance, so let's suppose the hive
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When it comes back, there was a man called a...
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So he was observing them, and he was realizing that when we look at the bees, it looks like
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I mean, not dancing, it's just they're scattered around.
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But when you look closely, the bee that went and found the nectar, when he comes back,
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he actually starts to wiggle his tail and dance in a specific pattern.
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So when he noticed and did that, he was looking at them, he put a specific mark on the back
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And then he realized that bees have a solar compass, so they know where the sun is, and
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that's how they use the directions to find the nectar.
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The bee, when it was dancing, it was telling the other bees in the colony the direction and
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Now, would you accept that that bee has intelligence?
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So recent studies show, I don't know if you've heard of someone called...
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He's kind of against the Darwin theory, Dawkins theory.
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He doesn't believe in natural selection, he believes in targeted selection.
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So what they notice is that, for example, you have the, you know, the cell.
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So Darwin, when he was talking about the cell, he talked about the cell as if it's something
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And over time, it developed to be something complex.
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Because Dennis Noble, when he studies the cell, he realizes the following.
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So imagine my hand is the nucleus, because you know the cell has a nucleus.
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And imagine the membrane of the cell is in Scotland.
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He realized that when he looks closely, there's something called, I think they're called tubelins,
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which is that the cell membrane sends information to the nucleus.
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And there's genes inside it, which have the DNA.
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And then you've got the different forms of structure.
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It's all to do with the bonding between the molecules.
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Look, you said to me, bonding, reading, and also it has proofreading.
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For example, you know that, you know when the DNA from the chromosomes.
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And it just, it literally, it doesn't code for anything.
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It just makes it pause, and then it creates the next chain.
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But when you say it creates, what gave it that prior knowledge for it to do the action?
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Because the DNA, look, you know when the chromosomes meet together?
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Look, there's random mutation, and we're saying about targeted mutation, yeah?
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What I'm saying is that, you know when the copying happens?
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It's why we have mutations, and it's like crossing over between the chromosomes.
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So, whatever you want to call it, there's mistakes that happen, and they're one in 10,000
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Now, what happens is one in 10,000 is okay, but when there are billions of copies happening,
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Something interesting happens when that happens.
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It goes through another proofreader near the cell, near the membrane, if I'm not mistaken.
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It reduces this mistake from one in 10,000 to one in 10 billion.
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All of this mechanism that we see, all of this copying and error correcting, this is an order.
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Now, the question I'm asking is the following, my dear sister.
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Can you give me one example anywhere that information doesn't require intelligence?
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But I wouldn't, you know, we've described it as information because that's how our interpretation
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of it, but it's really just to do with the way that it all interacts with each other.
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So, if I see, for example, let me give you an example.
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There was a, there's a scientist called Michael Behe.
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If I showed you the picture and I did not tell you what this is, you will say this is
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When I bring you a engine of a Ferrari and we look at it and go, wow, it's composed of
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We're talking about a flagellum that on a teaspoon, 4 billion of them can fit in.
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If one piece is missing, it would not function.
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But you need to tell me why and I'll accept it.
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It has to do with, um, coincidence and the fact that there, like, if you think about
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and probability and the fact that the universe, if you, if you believe the universe is, you
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know, infinitely large, then there are infinite possibilities for things to happen and, you
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know, and eventually, like, life will just occur.
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From a logical, logical and rational point of view, you're a very smart, intelligent
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Do you think we can call it a coincidence when you said the universe is so vast, all things
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If a thing to make arguments, if I said, I want a Ferrari and I have this cup and it's
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What has time and infinite possibilities got to do with making something that the elements
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For example, if I have nothing in the cup, giving it a billion amount of years is irrelevant
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to the equation because the elements to make a Ferrari or a strawberry cheesecake or a building,
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if it's not in that cup, time is irrelevant to the equation.
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I'm not going to be able to explain to you how energy and matter initially started.
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But if you look at this, within the sun, you've got hydrogens coming together to form
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You can create things that don't exist prior, like elements can be created.
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But the fact that they interact and become this thing shows that it has the properties
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What I'm talking about is the absence of something.
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The question we're asking is, what caused it to begin?
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Because we look around us, if we want to be morally, if we want to be consistent,
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You came here today, you walked past and said, oh my God, I know that guy.
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You didn't say, oh my gosh, maybe he's in the matrix.
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When you're going to cross that road, you're going to look left and right.
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When you woke up in the morning, you knew you was in your bed.
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You know when you go down, if you went to your coffee machine, opened it and saw a rectangular
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looking object, you're going to think, what on earth is that?
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We live in a universe that all things can happen.
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I understand what you're saying about, like, that it's just, like, it makes sense.
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I don't remember exactly, but there's something about, like, the watchmaker and, like, how...
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Yeah, they talk about the watchmaker's argument, yes.
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I do understand that, but also, for me, it's more just like, I can't prove the non-existence
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of something, so I feel like it's up to the religious person to prove the existence of
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Because I could just, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the flying spaghetti
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I can, because the thing is, what I'm saying is the following.
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Well, in the same way that I can't prove to you that God doesn't exist.
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Now, the thing is, I believe you're having a great leap of faith, because usually that should
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We say, hold on a second, Allah tells us in the Quran, use your rational and logical...
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Allah doesn't tell us, have blind faith and jump.
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That's the reason why I'm trying to provoke you a little bit.
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In the sense where, you're having a great leap of faith.
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You're saying, you know, I don't know and just...
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We accept that if there's information, there has to be intelligence.
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If there is something, everything you're wearing right now, even that lily on your hair,
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Seeing that, for example, there are things that you don't see that you believe in.
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Yeah, but I often don't fully understand what consciousness actually is.
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No, I'm not saying that you necessarily need to have the five senses.
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It doesn't actually have the value we assign it to it.
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So, I'm not saying that it's just the five basic senses, but...
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If you think about it, scientists and people...
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If you look at Darwin's book, he said, in my wildest extreme fluctuations, he was never
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If you read his books, he became agnostic when it came to seeing evil in the world.
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But when it came to his evolutionary theory, he never...
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That's why he was really scared to publish his findings, because he was like, oh no,
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And then he found out that someone else was about to publish it, and he was like, okay,
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So, the point I'm saying is, just looking at it from a logical perspective, yeah?
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The universe began to exist, it requires a cause.
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I feel like we're using our basic understanding.
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Like, even that thing about, like, everything needs to have a cause.
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Yeah, but it's just like, we're only saying that based off of what we can observe, what
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But I think, okay, so my little thing is like, if we...
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I believe that if every single, like, religious or fictional, whatever it is, like books,
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stories, anything, completely cease to exist, if you came back in billions of years' time,
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whatever, it wouldn't come back exactly as it was.
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I don't believe the Koran or the Bible or whatever it is would come back exactly as
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However, if you got rid of every single element of scientific understanding, if you came back,
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Maybe under slightly different, like, understanding of it.
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Because whenever you do the same experiment, you get the same result.
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If you drop something, it will always come to the ground.
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No, but what I'm saying is that's why, for me, I just love science and I feel like I'm
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And not only that, there were many Muslim scientists in history who've done science.
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Like, if you do a bit of research, a lot of Muslims were involved in Mathematical Algebra.
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The Koran is the only scripture that will also come back because it's been memorised
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But I know what you're trying to say when it comes to observable reality.
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But what I'm saying is, even if we put all the religions to our side, we came back
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here a billion years later, we will still see cause and effect.
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We will still look around and say, hold on a second, uniformity, regularity.
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In order for us to do science, we need these things.
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Because when you look at a snowflake, why does a snowflake have a symmetrical pattern?
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Wherever you look from a nano level to a macro level.
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No, but it's just like, if there is a God, I think he's evil.
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I just think that there are so many terrible, terrible things.
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Like, why would you create, like, insects that, like, fall, like, feed off the eyes of children
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I understand there has to be some, like, evil, maybe, whatever.
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So, there are just some things that it's just like, what is going on here?
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If there is a God, we're clearly just, like, entertaining them for it.
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And he's just like, let me just create some nonsense.
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The God that I worship, I do not believe is a God that puts us here.
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Because Allah says in the Quran, I did not create you for play.
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I did not create you so I could just, you know...
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For example, we believe that God Almighty is also the all-knowing and is also the most wise.
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There are certain things that has happened in your life, in my life.
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So, there's things that's happened in my life, but let me tell you something.
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There's things that I cannot comprehend and understand.
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But once I came out of that test, I truly understood what it did for me.
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Now, you cannot know what's beautiful until you see what's ugly.
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When we talk about good and bad, my dear sister, because you do not believe in a life after death,
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Imagine that was a drawing painted by someone, yeah?
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I will know a lot about the painter by looking at a picture.
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Because I know, number one, that painter exists.
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Number four, oh my gosh, look at the attention to detail.
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I know so much about the painter just by looking at the picture.
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So what you're saying is by looking at the earth and the design, he gets to know the design.
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Number two, he had to will the universe to exist.
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Number three, there is information in the universe.
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Number four, coming to what you said, there is evil in the world.
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If there's evil, that means God has to be the all-wise.
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There are people that don't necessarily believe in evil and good either.
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They think that we are essentially giving some kind of label to things.
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Like nothing is actually good or bad and it's just sort of there.
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So I did a bit of research on this, but you're talking about, for example, when it comes to morality, there is no good or bad.
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Okay, but when you go down that route, what's the difference between me eating a chocolate butt and killing somebody?
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That's why if you look at Hitler, he believed in eugenics.
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Eugenics means the greater way, if you get what you're going to say.
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So then, that's why a lot of atheists have done a lot of atrocities.
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When you look at the killing, atheists have killed more...
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If you start saying that morality only exists...
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Yeah, but if you say that only exists because of religion, then I think that's a really dangerous road to go down.
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Because then it's like, okay, then if you weren't religious, would you be...
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And I've gone out and murdered as many people as I wanted to.
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I don't think it's fair to say that, for example, just because someone's an atheist, that means they are more prone to do evil.
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Because there are religious people doing more evil than any atheist.
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In order for us to have objective morality, we need it to come from a source that is objective.
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So with us, for example, today, you would agree that, for example, homosexuality is fine.
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A child identifying as saying, I feel like a woman.
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No, because I feel like there's a certain level of influence and it's like, I think that's
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But, when it comes to people identifying as whatever they want to identify as, I personally
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We believe, you only live once, do as many good deeds as you can.
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But what we say is this, like, for example, what about incest?
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Like, imagine a brother and sister having intimacy.
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However, I actually wouldn't be able to back it up.
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Especially if they're not going to be able to have children.
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It's actually, they're not as victimless, so it's a bit like...
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And if they love each other, because when it comes to love is love, why does the LGBTQ
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And say, we're all for incest, because love is love.
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But do you see, they even draw a line and say...
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No, but to be fair, no, because then it, like, creates really...
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It's not good for, like, families and just sort of, like, mentally as well.
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There are studies that show, like, for example, same-sex couples, like, how the children perform.
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Because otherwise, everything, like, if you lived in Nazi Germany, me and you may have
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been like, you know what, that's great what they did to the Jews.
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So that's why we need objective morality to tell us right from wrong.
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From morality to rationality to where things come from, from cause and effect to all of these
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And as a person who does science and believes in science, that should rather propel you,
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The religion that I would ever potentially join is Buddhism.
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I don't really necessarily believe in a God or a God.
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And how like your actions and consequences and all of that stuff.
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I mean, I would say don't put every religion into the same category.
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Like they leave Christianity and they think, oh, Islam is probably just the same.
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Give it a chance because I came to Islam 11 years ago and I read all religions.
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And the Qur'an, I chose the Qur'an because number one, it's been preserved.
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Number two, it has evidences within it to prove its existence, why it's from God Almighty.
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I think it's definitely a bit more powerful than Christianity.
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Even then, I definitely have a bit of a complicated relationship with Islam.
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I'm Persian and like the situation is very interesting.
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Anselm, we are against the regime and it's like, you know, certain things that they do,
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So yeah, 100%, but I would say, do not take God out of the picture.
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Believe me, there is sufficient and more than enough evidence that DNA that you're talking
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about, the fact the way you look, the way you look and the way I look, my eyes, your teeth,
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all of these things, it's not random mutation, it is targeted mutation because, do you get
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Because the cells communicate with each other and that's the reason why, which shows you
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Now, new scientists are coming out and saying, look, there has, come on.
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I mean, there's intelligent design, there's things working in order.
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I just wanted to say, like, thank you for, obviously, like, I'm, I don't think I'm
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going to, like, over, like, convert to his love or anything, but.
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But, but, I do love listening to your passion and your, I think the way that you were talking
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I mean, I'll be honest with you, that was one of the most holistic discussions that
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She knew, she knew, she knew about the DNA, etc.
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And it was good because, you know, when you talk to some people, they don't know what
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But again, it further proved that God Almighty exists.
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So, brothers and sisters, Alhamdulillah, as you can see, this is why dawah is so important.
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I don't think we're going to be having hot chocolate today.
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Chubby, in 45 minutes, if we raise the target, we might do.