MUSLIM BURNING FLAG ESCALATES TO DEBATE ON FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
224.90814
Summary
In this episode of the Salaam Talk podcast, we talk about freedom of speech and what it really means to be free of speech in the modern world. We also discuss the issue of who is to blame and who is not to blame for the current state of affairs in our community.
Transcript
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i'm gonna go to the town center and i'm gonna get a british flag i'm gonna put petrol over it
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and i'm gonna install the flag and i'm gonna insult churchill
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salaam10 for 10% of their products okay guys so basically what's your name kev kev came here
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and he said ali wave the british flag now i said why do you need me to wave the british flag what's
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the reason but i wanted to make a point he allowed me to use the flag with consent yeah okay i want to
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ask you a question yeah i i used to live in a town called grimsby has everyone heard of grimsby
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okay i used to live there i used to get into trouble in london before i came to islam i used to be involved
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in gangs and stuff like that yeah i think you need to pay me royalties for this please sir yeah thank
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you uh anyways so i used to live there for about five six years i used to get into a lot of fights
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i used to be called p-a-k-i all day every day even though i'm kurdish yeah and so it's a very racist
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town i used to get into fights day in day out if i go to grimsby and they are quite i would say
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british nationalists you know they're proud if i have this flag and i set it on fire i set it on fire
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i put petrol over it i set it on fire and i say i hate britain what would happen to me
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angry what else what else do you think would happen to me i'll be attacked in what way like slapped
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punched stabbed potentially potentially yeah yeah are they to blame or am i to blame
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if that happened so if i went out my way okay okay so basically okay i i leave my i leave london i
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travel all the way to north i'm like where is the most national british nationalist grimsby i'm gonna go
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all the way to grimsby i'm gonna go to the town center and i'm gonna get a british flag i'm gonna put
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petrol over it and i'm gonna insult the flag and i'm gonna insult churchill and i'm gonna say
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i might who's to blame at this instance and i'm getting attacked imagine somebody comes to me
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with a baseball bat yeah and they're attacking me are they to blame or am i to blame
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technically so they are to blame technically but then my view would be why are you so stupid enough
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to be sat there yes with a union jack and provoke people provoking people by burning why would you
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do that that's a good question so the reason why i'm doing this question what's your name sir
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tom tom how you doing tom you all right all right yes i like the swagger by the way yes i'm working
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on mine but it's still in the process yes so now the question is the following freedom of speech does it
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really exist does the formula when we apply it really work it doesn't and what happened is that
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for example we have people who come and insult islam they insult the quran they insult the prophet
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muhammad and people make it seem and by the way jack i'm sorry jack kev kev sorry kev yeah so the thing
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is here people make it seem like it's exclusive to islam it's only the muslims that can't deal with
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freedom of speech and we're like hold on a second if i went to peckham who's from peckham no i know you're
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from peckham cameraman relax yourself dig up the ends if i you're from peckham yeah if i went to
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peckham a black community and i had and i said i hate n-i-g-g-e-r-s do you think the people in
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peckham will be like look mate you know you have a right to freedom of speech and we're gonna what
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would happen to me i think there might be a drive-by i think there might be a little drive-by
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let's be real here yeah the point is the following every community has individuals who might say look
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like for example we have people come in and insult the prophet i ignore them i've got
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that's hate i don't i don't want anything to do with that i do my thing but there are also people
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in our community as muslims who would go and do something crazy that happened two weeks ago
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right the question is this is it exclusive to islam no it's not because if i was to go to grimsby
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a brit and and there was i don't know white mates to this day i have white mates yeah if i went to
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them and i said i hate churchill church and i burnt the flag i'm not going to expect them to say
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well ali you know we defend your freedom of speech of course you're not and we know what happened
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at tommy robinson's march when me and mohammed hijab we nearly got killed yeah and we went and
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okay okay all right let's i got punched we got punched let's say yeah let's say we got punched
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yeah but if they had the means i think they wouldn't let us live the point is this and i was invited to
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to tommy robinson's event it wasn't that i went there i didn't turn up like without being invited i
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was invited to give it's a freedom of speech event but i was stopped because i'm a muslim the point
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here is and the reason why i was stopped is because the fla the football lads alliance said to tommy
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robinson if he goes up there he's not coming down yeah so the point here is the following that if
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people are provoked there's you're an idiot i'll be an idiot to go to grimsby hold that flag and burn
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it and i will be to blame and you said absolutely and i admire your honesty and this is what we need
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to talk about here because people make it seem like it's only the muslims that get upset no we're not the
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only people that get upset anyone would if this was a well it's not christian country anymore in that
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in that sense there is a lot of atheism atheism if i went to russia they're quite christian orthodox
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and i went and insulted the church i'm gonna get kicked in the face the point i'm trying to make
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here is freedom of speech is a dream and in real life it doesn't exist would you agree
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can you come here please sorry i've set the point yeah that if if you were to go to grimsby yeah and
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burn a british flag yeah i need to get beaten up the people who are beating you up for doing a
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morally legal however you want to conceptualize it yeah doing are doing a wrong action oh oh can
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you can you move outside sorry sir come come here what an honor why is it honor am i the king
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i'm a nobody yeah so why so why is it the case yeah that if someone else commits a wrong act yes that
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justifies you doing the wrong like one one right no no it doesn't but that's my point what i'm saying
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is i'm not saying just because someone else does i'm gonna do it i'm making a point here i would never
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do that good good i would i would never do that no it's okay i can i would never do that my point
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is the following way from i'm from edward edward your background you're british complicated you want
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britain to be about british i'm not sure i'm not sure what that means okay neither do i i heard it
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somewhere so the point is this year is if someone provokes a group of individuals yeah do we agree
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that there'll be people who might come wait but we can we can separate between the kind of the fact
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that there will be consequences we can separate from that where there should or shouldn't be
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consequences no no no no the fact doesn't imply their fact doesn't imply a moral judgment no no
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no but and then you're deriving moral judgment no no would there be an action to the to that
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there would but that doesn't imply anything about what what that you have the right to do or not
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no no i'm not saying i've never said they do i want to do it i'm not so so you're inferring
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from you're inferring from kind of facts about how people behave in immoral ways facts about what
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should and shouldn't happen well so you're so you're inferring from the actions of immoral people
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what actions are moral or not and i take objection no no no what i'm saying is the following if a group
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an individual here provokes a certain group of people and that person is attacked yes they have
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provoked and they play a part in that because they've provoked it and that is nice the point is
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the point is within some reasonable boundary exactly what that is we can have another people who carry the
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attack don't follow the reasonable boundaries no no no right right but you're but what you're doing
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further on in your arguments let me make sure i've understood your argument correctly so your
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argument is is you you you you are certain and i and i think you're probably broadly on the money
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here that if you were to go to x place and do y action which was in your legal moral rights legal
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kind of ignore any distinction between legality morality for the purpose of this argument because
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that's the same one you can do with another you're saying if we were to go to that situation and then
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you were to get attacked you know so you're you're deriving from that that freedom of speech
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shouldn't exist it doesn't it doesn't exist well no so but that that's not quite what freedom of
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speech means what does it what does so so so what you're doing is you're you're deriving you're
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deriving a fact from how immoral people behave in a way which we agree is wrong yes as in we
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we all agree i think everybody would agree here however much we could have an argument about your
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right to burn the flag or not we would agree that anyone who beat you up yeah on in virtue of that
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has committed immorally it's a legal crime well so are we are we well it's a legal crime but
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the application of freedom of speech do we see the effects of it working or not working you're
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you're you're you're deriving moral facts from immoral people you're you're deriving facts about
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the way the world should be from the way the world is but but not even from the way we have to we
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have no but but you're not dealing you're not you're saying you're not deriving it from a fact
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based upon how you think the world should morally be it is a fact you're deriving no you're you're
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freedom of speech is a dream base not just a fact you're so you're so you're deriving what
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you're doing is you're saying there are people who behave in ways we disagree with yes okay and
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you're deriving from a fact about that the way you think the world should be and i don't see why
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yeah yeah i don't see why you should i don't see why you should determine how you think the world
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should be yeah based on people who you vehement no no no no we have to no surely the onus is on those
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people to you should be your onus should be to make those people behave no no no so surely what you
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should be looking that's dreaming surely what you should be looking towards is a world in which
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people accept enough extent of freedom of speech to the extent that if they see you burning a
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british flag their response is not and and freedom of speech does not mean the response
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does not mean you you kind of have the right to then does not mean you have the right to not
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have the consequence in terms of that someone can't have an argument with you about that
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all we're saying all we're asking all you want is you you want you want the right to be able to
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burn a flag or do some other provocative act and you just want to be not attacked i don't think
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that's a dream i think the right that you can go into a product and then not be beaten up i think
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it's that that is an absolute dream let me tell you something because hey how you doing okay
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i i think i think freedom of speech i think it's i think you have to unpick what you mean by that
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no no no but in the first can i can i know because no one thinks sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir sir you
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ask me a question let's not go somewhere let's not go somewhere give me one second
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the point here is this look i would love a world where we hold hands like hippies run around
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yeah i don't know go for a jog or whatever bruv that's a dream world and it's not that's not the
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that's not the world you're looking at no no sir sir what's your name what's your name adam listen to me
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Freedom of speech doesn't mean the right to say
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No one's claiming that that's what freedom of speech is.
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is the right to say whatever you want in any context.
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If you can't say whatever you want, how is freedom of speech?
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In terms and conditions? There's limits. It's a freedom of speech.
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Everything has limits. Okay, good. Now we're talking.
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If you don't exaggerate all the laws that are saying we apply for them,
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No, because you're going against human psychology.
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I'm going to insult you and call you the N-word.
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But there are people who are not going to insult,
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then does the application of freedom of speech work
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If we go and insult them and provoke them and they...
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and there are a group of people in that community
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There are a group of people in the midst of the...