Ali Dawah - October 08, 2018


MUSLIM LEARNS ABOUT JUDAISM - SPEAKERS CORNER

Topics
marriage contract Haredi customs and practices wigs and hair covering practices
Hosted by
Ali Dawah
Mentioned
Yom Kippur Ketushin Sabbath Abraham Torah
KHABIBS ADVICE TO CONOR FIGHT!! #UFC229 THE Y FILES - DESTROYING LIES ON ISLAM

Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

208.66

Word count

2,245

Sentence count

313

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about the difference between the dating and marriage process in Judaism, and how it works in the context of the Torah. For example, what are the terms and conditions of a marriage contract? How does it work in relation to the dating process? And how is it related to the wedding ceremony?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Honestly, there are certain, under normal circumstances, one shouldn't even socialise with a woman who's not your wife and not your relative. 0.86
00:00:07.580 High five to that again, because we're on the same page.
00:00:13.340 That's what we believe. We believe that God cannot be tired. He's the all-knowing, the most powerful.
00:00:18.000 So again, the concept of Jesus, God dying on the cross, me and you reject that, right?
00:00:22.580 Yeah.
00:00:22.980 Okay, yeah. So I want to ask you another question.
00:00:26.180 For example, I'm intrigued. I'm asking this because I'm intrigued. How does it work for you guys?
00:00:30.540 For example, me personally, I got married about two years ago, yeah? How does a marriage process work for us?
00:00:35.240 For us, it's very strict. So for example, we can't go on dates, yeah?
00:00:39.500 So it doesn't work. If I want to get to know somebody, I have to go off with their father.
00:00:43.540 How does it work? Because I watched a documentary on this, but how does it work?
00:00:47.120 It is so complicated. Obviously, under normal circumstances, one shouldn't even socialise with a woman who's not your wife 1.00
00:00:55.600 and not your relative.
00:00:57.980 High five to that again, because we're on the same page.
00:00:59.820 But, obviously, you have to get married.
00:01:03.840 Yeah, let's get a high five for the marriage. 0.99
00:01:06.000 You're not expected to marry a stranger, and therefore, in the dating process,
00:01:10.220 there are certain things which would normally be permitted under the circumstances,
00:01:15.880 but certain things which remain forbidden.
00:01:18.340 So normally, you would not be allowed to start to get pleasure from looking at a woman, for example. 0.93
00:01:24.540 But if you're looking to get married, you go on a date, you are supposed to look at her,
00:01:27.960 because you've got to make sure you're comfortable with that.
00:01:30.780 But, she has to remain properly dressed. You can't see her when she's not covered.
00:01:36.580 You can't touch her.
00:01:38.160 So there are certain things which become permitted when you're genuinely looking to get married,
00:01:42.760 but there's also certain boundaries.
00:01:44.980 That's quite interesting.
00:01:45.840 So at the free time, when it comes to touching, it's very interesting.
00:01:49.000 At the beginning of the wedding ceremony, the groom paces the veil on the bride.
00:01:53.640 So the groom paces the veil on the bride?
00:01:55.080 Because he has to make sure that she's the right one.
00:01:56.780 Before she's got the veil on the face, he makes sure that she's the right one.
00:01:59.160 Okay.
00:02:00.160 But, at that point, he has to be very careful as he paces the veil,
00:02:03.880 that he doesn't touch her, because at that point, they're not married yet.
00:02:06.740 So what happens if he accidentally touches her?
00:02:08.300 But, if it's an accident, that's another thing.
00:02:09.600 He should try not to touch her.
00:02:10.860 Okay, okay.
00:02:11.560 As they're on their way out of the ceremony, they come out holding hands.
00:02:15.080 Oh, okay.
00:02:16.160 So, even when they're engaged, even when they're actually about to begin the wedding ceremony,
00:02:20.260 they still don't touch.
00:02:21.620 Okay.
00:02:22.000 So, in the dating process, there are certain leniencies, but there's boundaries as well.
00:02:26.640 Okay.
00:02:27.300 So, that was very...
00:02:28.600 Okay, so it's the same with us.
00:02:30.160 So, when you're getting to know the other person who's married, like you said before,
00:02:33.900 you're not allowed to touch her, you know, you're allowed to see, like, you know, the face, etc.
00:02:38.880 So, that's quite profound.
00:02:39.620 That's what I was asking, because there's a lot of things that are in common as well.
00:02:42.100 And also, another thing is, so when you do the contract, how does the marriage contract work?
00:02:47.860 Do you read something of the Torah?
00:02:54.500 How does it work?
00:02:55.260 How's the marriage contract?
00:02:56.020 You read something, and then you say, in the name of God, how does it work?
00:02:58.780 There is a marriage contract.
00:03:01.180 It's actually written, it's written and signed by the groom before the ceremony.
00:03:05.380 Okay.
00:03:05.680 It's, the witnesses who are going to witness the ceremony, obviously, have to make sure
00:03:10.220 they witness beforehand that the groom has been through and understands everything.
00:03:14.600 Okay.
00:03:15.080 And then, during the ceremony, the groom then hands it over to the bride.
00:03:18.800 Oh, okay.
00:03:19.700 All right, so...
00:03:20.700 And that states, obviously, various terms and conditions of marriage, rather.
00:03:24.440 Okay.
00:03:24.640 If the contract doesn't affect the marriage, the marriage is affected with, when the man,
00:03:30.120 when the groom gives an item of value, it's usually a ring, but it can be anything of value.
00:03:34.140 Oh, sorry, we call that ma'am. 1.00
00:03:35.920 We call it ketushin.
00:03:37.460 Ketushin, yeah.
00:03:38.080 So, he says to her, in Hebrew, you will be married to me with this ring, in accordance
00:03:44.960 with the law of Moses and Israel, and she takes it from him, she acquires the ring, and
00:03:50.220 the witnesses have to watch that process.
00:03:51.940 How many witnesses?
00:03:53.300 Two.
00:03:54.140 That's quite interesting.
00:03:55.700 What can I say about you?
00:03:56.640 The way you say it, I feel like you're talking about Islam.
00:03:58.480 Yeah, yeah, it's two of this.
00:03:59.340 Anyway, so that's how the marriage is affected.
00:04:01.300 The marriage contract doesn't create the marriage, but it creates, in terms of conditions,
00:04:06.720 it's the man's commitment to the woman, which is written in the contract.
00:04:11.320 Can the female put any conditions in there? 1.00
00:04:13.900 Yeah, there are certain things which are standard, and there are other things which can be agreed
00:04:19.240 upon, but it goes into the contract.
00:04:23.120 It's not hard and fast.
00:04:24.320 Okay, that's interesting.
00:04:27.780 That's actually very common with Islam, that's very common.
00:04:30.460 One other thing I was going to say is, if I'm not mistaken, once a year you guys prostrate?
00:04:36.880 Yeah, once a year.
00:04:38.260 Well, on the festival of New Year.
00:04:42.760 Okay.
00:04:43.140 When is the New Year for you then?
00:04:44.460 It's been about a month ago.
00:04:45.860 Oh, okay.
00:04:46.320 And then that's two days running.
00:04:47.520 We prostrate once.
00:04:48.840 Once.
00:04:49.200 That's the first two days.
00:04:50.260 Is it how we prostrate?
00:04:52.020 I haven't seen you prostrate.
00:04:53.220 Yeah, but we can't put our face direct on the ground, so we put a cloth down in front
00:04:57.920 of it.
00:04:58.440 Okay, so you cannot touch the ground.
00:04:59.960 Our face, our face shouldn't touch the ground.
00:05:01.800 So you put a cloth down and you prostrate with your face on the cloth.
00:05:04.260 That's when you do it once on the first two days, and then on the tenth day of the year
00:05:07.580 is Yom Kippur, when you prostrate four times.
00:05:10.900 Oh, so then you prostrate four times?
00:05:12.700 On Yom Kippur. 0.85
00:05:12.980 Do you know how we prostrate?
00:05:14.500 Do you want to show you?
00:05:15.420 Do you want to?
00:05:15.880 Is this how we prostrate?
00:05:16.620 So we're like this.
00:05:17.620 Yeah, it looks pretty much like that.
00:05:21.400 Our head, our nose, our hands, our knees, and our feet have to touch the floor, yeah?
00:05:27.160 Like that, but with us, we don't actually put our face on the floor directly, we put
00:05:29.760 a cloth down and we put our face on the floor.
00:05:30.700 So you put a cloth down?
00:05:31.680 Yeah.
00:05:32.200 Okay, that's similar.
00:05:33.060 We have to pray five times a day, by the way.
00:05:35.160 We pray three times, but on the festivals...
00:05:37.120 You pray three times a day?
00:05:37.920 Every day.
00:05:38.700 Then on the festivals, we have four services, and on Yom Kippur, we have five, except
00:05:44.100 that on Yom Kippur, they all run into each other, so we're actually praying
00:05:46.000 the whole day.
00:05:46.380 Okay, so when you pray...
00:05:48.420 We face Jerusalem when we pray.
00:05:51.580 So you face Jerusalem when you pray? 0.88
00:05:52.940 Yeah.
00:05:53.300 Okay, we face Mecca, but before the Muslims of Salem would face Jerusalem, but then it 0.98
00:05:58.100 got changed.
00:05:58.480 In this part of the world, if you're facing one city, you're facing the other.
00:06:03.640 From London, in London, Muslims and Jews are facing pretty much the same direction. 0.87
00:06:10.180 Oh, is it?
00:06:10.660 There you go, another common...
00:06:11.720 Yeah, but that's only from here, because obviously it's going to be somewhere in the world.
00:06:15.460 Yeah, so you know you said...
00:06:17.500 You know you're facing the past.
00:06:19.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:19.780 Of course it's the interview.
00:06:20.780 So when you...
00:06:21.740 You know when you pray three times a day, do you have to do some kind of ablution?
00:06:27.700 Well...
00:06:28.180 Is there any ritual that you have to do?
00:06:29.440 There's a...
00:06:30.220 The standard thing is washing of the hands.
00:06:33.180 The hands, yes.
00:06:34.240 That's standard.
00:06:35.120 We wear it to hands before we pray.
00:06:37.020 There are some people who immerse their entire body each morning in a special type of pool.
00:06:43.120 That's not obligatory.
00:06:44.640 Some people have that custom.
00:06:46.120 Probably the majority don't.
00:06:47.180 Okay.
00:06:48.000 And then more people...
00:06:49.580 The immersion pool is called a Nipha.
00:06:51.420 That's built in very specific requirements.
00:06:54.760 Some people go every morning.
00:06:56.120 Some people might go every Friday in preparation for the coming Sabbath.
00:07:00.060 Okay.
00:07:00.580 It's...
00:07:01.140 So you know when you pray, you don't do this three times a day, do you?
00:07:05.260 No, we don't bow down.
00:07:06.020 So what do you do?
00:07:06.680 Like, what kind of prayer is it?
00:07:07.860 Well, some of our prayers are recited standing.
00:07:10.220 Some of them are recited sitting.
00:07:11.060 Is it the one where it's a bit like this?
00:07:12.780 Is it the one where it's a bit like this?
00:07:13.680 Or is that different?
00:07:15.260 Yeah, well, some people sway a bit.
00:07:17.100 Some people like to stand still.
00:07:18.480 Okay, can you do it like this?
00:07:20.460 Standing.
00:07:21.020 Like, if you stood facing...
00:07:22.780 The central prayer of every service...
00:07:24.940 Some people...
00:07:25.480 There's a needless or something.
00:07:26.680 That has to be said standing with your feet together.
00:07:29.120 With your feet together?
00:07:29.920 Yeah.
00:07:30.380 Like, uh...
00:07:31.120 Okay.
00:07:31.800 So that's three times a day?
00:07:33.140 Yeah.
00:07:34.080 Okay, that's interesting.
00:07:35.060 That's interesting.
00:07:35.780 Do you guys drink alcohol?
00:07:38.180 Yeah.
00:07:39.140 In moderation.
00:07:40.280 You shouldn't get to the point where you're not in control of yourself.
00:07:43.560 You have to drink moderately enough that you can make sure you don't do anything you shouldn't do.
00:07:47.060 But if you keep you within that limit, you're allowed to drink alcohol.
00:07:49.420 It's permissive, I don't think.
00:07:50.340 Yeah.
00:07:50.760 Okay, that's interesting.
00:07:51.880 I don't know if there's any questions that I want to ask.
00:07:53.520 Is there anything you want to ask me?
00:07:55.860 Yeah, that is interesting.
00:07:57.540 Just last question, last question.
00:07:59.560 The long black thing that you guys wear, or the hats that...
00:08:03.420 The furry hats?
00:08:04.500 Yeah, what is that?
00:08:05.340 Do you have to?
00:08:06.040 No, that's done in certain communities.
00:08:08.120 It's not universal.
00:08:09.600 That's the Hasidic communities. 1.00
00:08:12.000 Hasidic, yeah. 0.99
00:08:12.500 They originated from Eastern Europe.
00:08:15.160 It's not standard.
00:08:17.000 Okay.
00:08:17.380 What is the Ultra-Orthodox?
00:08:18.540 What are they called?
00:08:19.740 The generic term for the Ultra-Orthodox is Haredi.
00:08:22.920 Haredi? 0.74
00:08:23.440 Haredi? 0.74
00:08:23.860 Haredi? 0.74
00:08:24.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:24.680 Haredi doesn't mean...
00:08:25.620 It's not a specific movement.
00:08:26.820 It's just the very, very religious, so known as the Haredi.
00:08:29.640 And that's obviously...
00:08:30.260 There's different groups amongst the Haredi that come from different parts of the world,
00:08:33.200 have different customs.
00:08:35.180 You're not...
00:08:35.560 You're not...
00:08:35.860 Oh yeah, we've covered that.
00:08:36.500 You're not allowed to shake the hand on the opposite side.
00:08:38.100 Yeah.
00:08:38.960 Okay, all right.
00:08:40.140 I heard...
00:08:40.560 Is it true that the female and the males have to walk on the opposite side, or is that correct? 0.97
00:08:44.260 I heard this.
00:08:44.940 I don't know.
00:08:45.180 Just ask.
00:08:46.300 No, no.
00:08:47.100 I mean...
00:08:47.980 You were talking about opposite side of the street?
00:08:49.400 Yeah.
00:08:50.120 It's not generally done.
00:08:51.480 Yeah.
00:08:51.800 I know in certain isolated places, they might take on...
00:08:55.600 You know, some communities take on extra stringences.
00:08:58.040 I think in Gateshead, that's a common practice.
00:09:01.260 Okay.
00:09:01.680 But that's Gateshead.
00:09:02.700 It's not what Jews do all over the world. 0.97
00:09:05.100 Okay.
00:09:05.440 Certain communities have extra...
00:09:06.920 Weddings is segregated, right?
00:09:08.760 Yeah.
00:09:09.060 I mean, again, I mean, you're talking about, you know, diverse groups of people.
00:09:12.900 So, obviously, some communities are more religious than others.
00:09:16.060 Some are stricter than others.
00:09:17.900 Some are...
00:09:19.180 And, you know, different customs have evolved.
00:09:21.020 Okay.
00:09:21.520 So, what you'll see in one community isn't necessarily standard of all Jews.
00:09:25.420 One last question.
00:09:26.680 I promise you it's the last one.
00:09:27.240 You said that quite a few times.
00:09:27.760 Last one.
00:09:28.220 I promise you it's the last one.
00:09:29.800 The Jewish ladies, why do they have... 1.00
00:09:32.900 Do they have to wear a wig? 0.91
00:09:34.880 The married ladies should keep their hair covered. 1.00
00:09:37.780 Okay.
00:09:38.100 It's only the married ladies. 1.00
00:09:39.640 Sorry.
00:09:40.140 What?
00:09:41.240 What?
00:09:41.940 You gave it to...
00:09:42.740 Oh, okay.
00:09:43.240 Sorry.
00:09:44.640 Do you know what to feel like?
00:09:45.340 Yeah, I already discussed this.
00:09:46.560 It's like a little box.
00:09:47.420 Yeah, sir.
00:09:47.820 Oh, the tefillin.
00:09:48.600 Yeah, what about that?
00:09:49.260 Please explain about that.
00:09:50.140 One second.
00:09:50.600 Can I just...
00:09:51.080 I'll give that.
00:09:51.800 So, what was I saying?
00:09:53.440 What were you saying?
00:09:53.960 Yeah.
00:09:54.280 You said that they have to cover their hair.
00:09:56.760 Yeah.
00:09:57.320 But why don't they cover it, like, for example, like a cloth?
00:10:00.180 Why do they wear it like a wig?
00:10:02.560 Again, that's something that does vary.
00:10:04.980 You'll find in many communities that women are covering their head with a cloth. 1.00
00:10:08.140 They call it a tikh.
00:10:09.240 Tikh.
00:10:09.780 That's like a cloth they cover their head with.
00:10:12.160 Others, others, there are some quite commonplace nowadays to wear the wigs.
00:10:17.560 It is, you should know, it is a matter of controversy.
00:10:19.980 Because some say it's not really in the spirit of the law.
00:10:23.080 It's become an accepted practice.
00:10:24.960 At the end of the day, it's covered.
00:10:25.940 I heard...
00:10:26.660 The head is covered.
00:10:27.780 I mean, the hair is covered.
00:10:28.560 I heard it means the bigger it is, the more religious you claim.
00:10:33.300 And that's for the married woman. 1.00
00:10:34.760 The married woman. 0.97
00:10:35.080 So the single woman don't have to know. 1.00
00:10:36.880 Okay.
00:10:37.720 I've got a name.
00:10:38.540 No, no.
00:10:39.060 Abraham.
00:10:40.380 It was a pleasure, man.
00:10:41.400 Thank you, man.
00:10:41.960 Please explain about the things.
00:10:44.160 This is put on in the moon.