Ali Dawah - MUSLIM SCHOOLS CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR - DEBATE

00:00:00.000 The Quran or the Bible? Which is the Word of God? For those of you who are wondering,

00:00:19.000 we're going to answer that very question today. You came here for debate to make that happen.

00:00:24.540 I have with me Ijaz Ahmad. Before we get started, let's get to know my guest. Ijaz is one of Islam's

00:00:31.140 leading interfaith commentators. As a religious educator, researcher, and author, his area of

00:00:36.040 specialty is textual criticism of the Quran and the Bible. He can be found weekly on some of Islam's

00:00:41.820 leading shows and is always up for a good debate. Welcome to the broadcast, Ijaz. Thanks so much for

00:00:47.280 coming on. Great to have you here. Thank you. So how can you accept the invitation to have this

00:00:53.740 mini debate here on TV? Well, the Quran engages with Christians and Jews, and I know that you

00:00:59.820 share a Jewish background. And so on that basis, I think coming together and discussing what our

00:01:05.280 scriptures say matters more to me than anything else. Well, excellent. Good, good. So today we're

00:01:10.060 going to confront the question, the Quran or the Bible, which is the Word of God? So my guest,

00:01:15.260 Ijaz Ahmad, a leading interfaith commentator, you know, our views are very, very different. I also

00:01:21.140 know you love a good debate. So let's do it. Ijaz, we'll both have equal amount of time, starting

00:01:26.340 with three minutes for our opening statements. And when we come to the end of your time, you'll

00:01:30.720 know because you'll hear this buzzer. All right, ready to go? Yep. Okay, your time starts now.

00:01:38.700 Three minute opening statement. Bismillah ar-salatu wa salamu ala rasulullah. We all agree that the

00:01:45.560 purpose of scripture is twofold. It informs us about who God is and how we can be saved.

00:01:51.040 I don't intend to machine gun my interlocutor due to time constraints. So I will give a few

00:01:55.740 powerful reasons why the Quran is the Word of God. One, the intelligibility of the Creator about

00:02:01.340 Himself. And two, God's Word is sacred and preserved. In Suw'a Ikhlas, that's 112 of the Quran,

00:02:07.880 that's one chapter, four short passages. The God of the Quran informs us about who He is.

00:02:12.720 Almost any question about the nature of God can be answered in it. In every Suw'a, we are told about

00:02:18.620 God's mercy and grace. And in the one Suw'a that does not start with these sacred words,

00:02:23.420 within the first five passages, we are told about God's love and mercy. Intelligibility is about

00:02:29.120 saying as much as you can in as little as you can, so that everyone from the scholar to the child can

00:02:34.040 know their Creator. No Hellenistic philosophy required, as with Hebrews 1.3, Philippians 2.5-11,

00:02:40.220 John 1.1 or 3.16, words never ever spoken or explained by Jesus Himself. In both our faiths,

00:02:48.540 God is all-powerful and eternal, but in the Bible, it is God that suffers and dies. Dr. Brown teaches

00:02:54.040 in volume four of his work that the truth of God's message is not preserved in any one manuscript. You

00:02:59.080 have to go through all of the many Masoretic texts, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Samaritan Pentateuch,

00:03:03.740 the Syriac translations of the Bible, then scour all the New Testament texts found in Koine Greek,

00:03:08.720 Latin, and Syriac, in the hope that you can find generalized and vague prophecies using,

00:03:13.780 as he agrees, error-prone exegetical standards that misled the Jews in Jesus' own time and to

00:03:19.560 this very day. Forget the child. Can any one of us meet such an incredible standard today?

00:03:24.500 No. Why would a loving God demand this? You will hear him say, perhaps, that all you need to know

00:03:29.580 is that Jesus died for your sins, but does Jesus make that claim himself? That all is that what you

00:03:35.200 need to know? No. Both the scriptures teach that God will preserve his word so that we can all come

00:03:40.740 to know him. Quran 59 and Psalm 119, verse 89. But this promise is not true of the Bible. To quote

00:03:47.420 Dr. Brown, editorial or copious errors could easily creep into the text. The use of scripture was much

00:03:53.060 more free-flowing, yet he concludes the multiformity of the biblical text must be taken into account.

00:03:59.460 I agree. Will he? God's word is sacred, and if, as he argues, our Hasidic brothers can be misled by

00:04:05.640 their transmission and interpretation of scripture, then why should I trust teachings which have become

00:04:10.540 tradition, which may not even be authentic to begin with? In footnote 13 of volume 4, he argues that

00:04:16.800 changes by editors can become part of the standard tradition of sacred writings. His claim, not mine. I

00:04:22.660 believe this is what happened with the Bible. The intelligibility and sacredness of scripture matters.

00:04:27.800 Do they easily matter as much to you? Thank you.

00:04:33.140 All right. Thanks for your opening statement. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one

00:04:41.800 comes to the Father but through me, as simple and plain as you could possibly imagine. What's remarkable

00:04:49.120 is that the Quran points people back to the Torah and the gospel. The Quran points people back to the

00:04:55.840 people of the book. He even says, ask them things. So I'm so glad to be able to answer these questions.

00:05:02.180 The text of the Torah and the gospel that we have today in our Bibles is the same text that existed in

00:05:09.220 the days of Muhammad when allegedly Allah told him to go to the people of the book, to the Torah,

00:05:15.240 and to the gospel. Here's what we know. We have eyewitness accounts of the crucifixion from the people who

00:05:23.220 were there recorded within a generation of it happening. We have the major Roman historian of

00:05:29.280 the era Tacitus referring to Jesus dying and being executed. We have eyewitness accounts preserved in

00:05:37.060 thousands and thousands of manuscripts, and yet we are supposed to believe the Quran, which comes 600

00:05:43.620 years after, and denies the crucifixion. We have eyewitness accounts of what happened 3,000 years,

00:05:51.940 2,500 years before the Quran. We're told, no, don't believe that. Believe something that came later. 0.99

00:05:59.220 It would be like me getting a revelation about something that happened in Muhammad's day, 0.99

00:06:03.200 and I tell you, believe me, not the record you have there. No book in the ancient world has been

00:06:09.200 preserved with the accuracy of the Bible. Nothing even close to that. I'm talking about letter-for-letter

00:06:15.740 accuracy. I'm talking about word-for-word accuracy over a period of many, many centuries. Not only that,

00:06:23.260 the Bible uniquely lays out the history of the world. It uniquely lays out the treatment of the Jewish 1.00

00:06:29.560 people scattered to all the nations, preserved in the midst of judgment, and yet regathered. It lays out

00:06:36.780 the messianic prophecies, how the Messiah would suffer and die and rise from the dead before the

00:06:41.980 second temple was destroyed in the year 70. How he would be rejected by his own people, Israel. How he

00:06:47.120 would become a light to the Gentiles, and then his people would turn. It even speaks of Jerusalem being 0.93

00:06:52.720 a city of controversy for the whole world. How did the biblical authors know this? They knew it because

00:06:57.740 they were inspired by God. When it comes to the preservation of the Quran, one major manuscript study

00:07:03.820 from, discovery from 1972 in Yemen, actually indicates errors and differences. And we do know

00:07:10.800 that the third caliph, Uthman, gathered together the different sources that had different readings of

00:07:15.900 the Quran and destroyed them, so you were left with only one. The Bible, the best preserved book in the 1.00

00:07:22.200 ancient world, and it talks about our Heavenly Father. With all the names for Allah in the Quran and

00:07:28.620 tradition, Father is not one of them. And there's plenty of division within the Muslim world about

00:07:33.660 what to believe. All right, very clear. We've laid out our opening statements of three minutes. Now,

00:07:42.600 Ijaz, over you for your two-minute response, and then I'll follow you. Go ahead. Clock is on.

00:07:47.600 Thank you. You said, Jesus said, no one can come to me except to the Father. As you know,

00:07:52.480 Christians call us to believe that we don't have the very words of Jesus. They fall under 1.00

00:07:56.440 ipsissimum vox and not ipsissimum verba. You can read more by Daniel Wallace about this.

00:08:01.420 Secondly, the Quran never says go to the Bible. The Bible in Arabic will be majumul kutub or kitab

00:08:05.620 al-muqaddas, two terms that never uses. So that would be unequivocation. You say that the text that

00:08:10.600 you have today is the same. I beg to disagree because no Christian today uses a diplomatic edition 0.98

00:08:14.680 of the Greek New Testament. You use critical editions, which are not based on all of the manuscript

00:08:19.040 tradition, as evidenced by the ECM using the CBGM, that is the coherence-based genealogical method to

00:08:24.940 reconstruct the New Testament. Secondly, you said that you have eyewitness accounts of the

00:08:28.560 crucifixion. Wrong. What you have are assumptions that the gospel authors are eyewitnesses, but this

00:08:33.520 is not the case and cannot be evidenced. Remember, church tradition does not mean that church tradition

00:08:38.040 is true. You would need to validate and verify it in the same way that you disagree with what the

00:08:42.340 rabbis say about their own traditions in the Talmud. You mentioned that Tacitus was a witness.

00:08:47.700 Correction, Tacitus was not a witness. He's writing after the year 115 or 117,

00:08:52.160 after Emperor Trasian had died. And he actually calls Jesus Christos, not Christos. He got that

00:08:57.180 major detail wrong, his very name. Secondly, he never mentions the crucifixion. He says in Latin,

00:09:01.820 be most severe punishment. So there is no need to equivocate here. We need to be specific with

00:09:06.000 the claims that we make. You say that the Quran comes 600 years after. I beg to disagree. God can

00:09:10.700 reveal revelation at any time in history, just as he accounted for the Genesis accounts many thousands

00:09:16.380 of years after, but Moses, peace be upon him. You also mentioned that, let me see here,

00:09:22.020 the messianic prophecies. As I said, these cannot be qualified. This is based on a poor understanding

00:09:26.340 of Jewish exegetical standards, as you yourself claim, had led the Jews to be misled about who

00:09:31.540 the Messiah is. Lastly, Codex Sana does not actually matter because it is not used as an archetype

00:09:36.580 for the Quran. And we know that that has lapsus kalami, as evidenced by Dr. Alba Fadeli and her

00:09:41.320 great work on it. Lastly, Uthman burns the Quranic manuscripts, which were different and incorrectly

00:09:46.900 written with the incorrect rassum. You go in papyri, not parchment. Thank you.

00:09:51.200 All right. So number one, you admit that there are errors or discrepancies in the Quran. They've

00:09:56.880 just been suppressed. Number two, we have a wealth of evidence, and there's something called textual

00:10:01.600 criticism, where you sift through it to come up with the most accurate reading. And you can have

00:10:05.420 Hebrew manuscripts from 1,000 years after Jesus that are in letter-for-letter agreement with

00:10:10.040 manuscripts from 100 years before Jesus. This is a simple fact. I didn't say that Tacitus was an

00:10:15.440 eyewitness, but rather a historian. As for the disciples being eyewitnesses, Richard Balcombe's

00:10:20.020 written an excellent book on eyewitnesses of Jesus, where he gives clear evidence. I also said that

00:10:24.540 Tacitus said that Jesus was executed. I did make that correction as I was saying it. As for your 0.98

00:10:30.040 misrepresentation of what I wrote in my own books, no, it is with doing solid biblical exegesis that you

00:10:36.580 see the prophecies are what they are. As for the idea that we don't have the words of Jesus, of course

00:10:40.640 we have the words of Jesus. When he quotes things, where does it say that those are not his actual

00:10:45.140 words? You may have a scholar debating various things there, but of course they are presented

00:10:49.440 as the words of Jesus. We have every reason to believe them. What's so remarkable is that even

00:10:53.980 within Islam, you have these massive divisions between Sunni and Shia. If things were presented so

00:10:58.860 clearly and beautifully and wonderfully, you'd think that there'd just be everybody believing the same

00:11:03.320 thing. What's also remarkable with the emphasis on Allah, the fact is that you can work your

00:11:09.620 hardest. You can do your very, very best. You can follow all the five pillars of Islam and you still 0.96

00:11:14.540 do not have assurance that when you die, you go to paradise. In fact, you've got to pray in a certain

00:11:19.720 order and live a certain way because at best you are a servant of Allah, whereas the Bible tells us how

00:11:25.000 you can have a personal relationship with God. As for Jesus, not saying he was dying for our sins at the

00:11:30.260 Last Supper, he said, this is my body, which is given for you. He also said that his life was a

00:11:34.820 ransom for many. And he pointed to Isaiah 53, which tells us that he bore our sins. The Bible, again,

00:11:42.560 far and away, the best preserved book in the ancient world. And when Muhammad received his revelation,

00:11:47.480 it was 600 years after the time of Jesus. All right, it's about to get a little bit more interesting.

00:11:54.640 We're going to do rapid fire. So it's one minute back and forth three times, then 30 seconds back

00:12:00.540 and forth three times, starting as always with my esteemed guest, Ijad, over to you.

00:12:05.820 So no, I don't admit errors in the Quran. We concede that there were changes in the manuscript

00:12:10.020 tradition, otherwise known as lapsus kalamai. Textual critics do not consider lapsus kalamai,

00:12:15.080 which is transcriptional errors, errors by the eye, parablepsis, as being actual errors. Errors would be

00:12:19.840 change the text like an emendation with what we have of the Greek New Testament. Secondly, you say

00:12:24.280 we can know what the manuscripts say because of textual criticism. This is actually incorrect.

00:12:28.560 If you bother to read the UBS through the Greek New Testament, it actually gives a rating

00:12:32.040 to each variant unit in the New Testament. Only 9% or rather 8.9% of all the variant units chosen

00:12:38.700 are certain about 90 plus percent. They have doubt. So if your textual or your own textual scholars

00:12:44.520 can doubt what the Bible says, that's on you, not on me. Borkham does not prove that these are

00:12:48.680 actually eyewitnesses, and nothing actually demonstrates that in his work. I have read

00:12:52.800 it in detail. So the question comes to you, how do you know that these are the words of Jesus

00:12:56.740 other than an assumption without evidence? Can you please give one basis of textual evidence

00:13:01.600 within the first century to confirm this? Thank you.

00:13:04.540 And point to fact, you have no clue if Muhammad made up every word or someone gave it to him. 0.57

00:13:09.440 In other words, you can't prove what you believe, that you just believe it. Most of the textual

00:13:13.620 errors that you pointed to, that's the same thing we have in scribal transmission of biblical

00:13:17.700 documents, and scholars can point that out. And point to fact, there is not one major doctrine

00:13:23.380 that is in question whatsoever in terms of what the Bible teaches based on the various textual

00:13:29.640 readings. As for eyewitness accounts, we didn't have cameras back then. We didn't have videotape

00:13:36.220 running. But according to the best evidence, these are eyewitness accounts. And according to what we've

00:13:41.300 seen in the unfolding of history of Jesus backing his word, then we see that he continues to speak,

00:13:46.520 he continues to act. But ultimately, there is a taking something by faith, you taking the Quran

00:13:51.060 being inspired, me taking the Bible being inspired. But, you know, Surah 2946, believe in that which

00:13:56.460 was sent down to us also. I'm telling you what was sent down to us. It's found in the Bible,

00:14:01.200 which has been wonderfully accurately preserved.

00:14:03.640 All right, so thank you for your response, Dr. Brown. I beg to differ. As Dr. David Allen Black points

00:14:12.740 out in his book on an introduction to textual criticism, he says that there are many actually

00:14:16.860 important textual variants which do affect doctrine. Specifically, he points out of the

00:14:22.340 variants where Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus and says that he's in both heaven and earth. That is a

00:14:27.360 variant. Secondly, the use of the word monogamous, for example, is another variant. Does it mean begotten or

00:14:32.060 uniquely created? These are terms which have led people into errors. And as you would know,

00:14:37.460 Baker's Encyclopedia and other sources basically say that this term was misused by Jerome when

00:14:42.820 translated from unicus into unigenitus in the New Testament. So I do beg to differ on the textual

00:14:47.660 variants. Lastly, you mentioned in your book that there were important distinctions and variants

00:14:52.520 between the two forms of the first Ten Commandments. Your claim, not mine. Lastly, the Quran does not say

00:14:58.680 your book. It says what Allah has revealed in Quran 2 or 4 ayahs, 51 to, sorry, Quran 2 or 5 ayahs, 46 to 47.

00:15:07.140 In point of fact, the Torah and the gospel that are referenced were the only ones that existed.

00:15:12.780 In other words, there was not a different text at that time. When Allah allegedly told Muhammad

00:15:16.980 about the Torah and the gospel, it's what we have as the Torah and the gospel. It was not

00:15:21.360 subsequently changed. And again, why on earth would I believe someone 600 years later denying

00:15:27.440 the crucifixion of the Messiah when people who were there or people at the very least within a

00:15:33.160 generation, we have manuscripts going back that far, attest to what had happened. And it's not an

00:15:38.000 account that you would come up with because of the ignominy of crucifixion. When it comes to David

00:15:42.300 Allen Black, you'll also know that he's absolutely confident in the text of Scripture and has been

00:15:46.900 involved in Bible translation because he knows we have God's word. And the one disputed text in John

00:15:51.640 3 about said a man, which is in heaven, has almost universally said, no, this is a later edition.

00:15:56.920 You're giving a misleading impression about textual science. And again, Uthman takes the many

00:16:01.380 variants and even trying to find who said what, do we even have this in the Quran, and destroys the

00:16:05.400 other. That's why you have more uniformity. The others were destroyed.

00:16:10.260 Okay, to respond to that quickly, that would actually be incorrect. We have the Qiraat.

00:16:13.920 And as Dr. Cook actually mentions in his 2004 paper, we know that they come from one source

00:16:19.220 earlier. You mentioned how can we know using the science of stematics, something that cannot be

00:16:23.240 done with the New Testament because we don't have any archetypal text. I will also continue here.

00:16:27.580 You said I misrepresented Dr. David Allen Black. Actually, I'm not. He himself says it's a major

00:16:32.940 doctrinal variant, not me, his words. I would also add here, no, you cannot know what Jesus said,

00:16:38.440 and that you assume that they are eyewitnesses is not proof that they are eyewitnesses.

00:16:42.240 To claim that it was written within the same generation, again, is a supposition. We have

00:16:46.200 no New Testament text within the first century CE, and according to at least papyrologists,

00:16:51.160 when we date the gospel, sorry, paleographers, when we date the gospel's paleography,

00:16:56.240 the terminus antiquem and the terminus postquem, that unit of time, actually spans between 100

00:17:01.840 and 150 years. So we may not have even a single New Testament document within the second century CE.

00:17:07.560 Please answer these questions. I'd appreciate it.

00:17:11.520 In point of fact, we have manuscript evidence even from within the first century.

00:17:16.480 The second thing is in terms of comparing to other evidence, it's remarkably early when you look at all

00:17:21.360 the other evidence, when you look at various historical documents and famous poetry.

00:17:26.460 It's remarkable how many witnesses we have. You're turning the thing exactly upside down.

00:17:30.640 It's for David Allen Black. Again, look to where he says that there's major dispute.

00:17:34.260 We don't know what this doctrine says. No, there's agreement on what the doctrine actually is

00:17:38.800 in the text. In point of fact, as I've said again, the Quran points to Torah and gospel.

00:17:44.880 We know what Torah and gospel were in Muhammad's day. We know where he got things wrong based on 0.67

00:17:50.040 information he had that he misunderstood. We know where the confusions come in the Quran,

00:17:54.020 where biblical figures are misunderstood and things like that. We know all of that.

00:17:58.000 Go back to the eyewitnesses. And you say, how do we know they're eyewitnesses?

00:18:01.240 Because their disciples and their followers repeated it and repeated it. And we have a strong

00:18:05.700 and clear tradition going right back to the cross, going right back to Jesus.

00:18:12.580 So we actually have no evidence, like I said, that this is eyewitness to eyewitness transmission.

00:18:16.960 Again, this is church tradition being read back into history. I want evidence, not assumptions.

00:18:21.500 Lastly, you're equivocating with what the Quran says. It never says go to the Torah and the gospel

00:18:26.020 specifically. As you know, in your own book, you testify there is no one Torah textual tradition.

00:18:30.400 And secondly, what Christians considered the euangelium, the good news to be, differed across

00:18:35.200 the empire, especially when we had more apocryphal works being read in Egypt than anywhere else at

00:18:39.880 the same time as the prophet, peace be upon him.

00:18:42.620 Right. Again, when the Torah and gospel are pointed to within the Quran for alleged validation,

00:18:48.980 we are told go to them because they prophesy of Muhammad. What Torah and gospel existed in 0.88

00:18:54.660 Muhammad's day? The same Torah and gospel we have. 0.98

00:18:57.740 That Torah and gospel does not at any point ever mention Muhammad, hinted Muhammad, except 0.71

00:19:02.860 to warn about false prophets who will leave the word astray. Quran points to Torah and gospel.

00:19:09.020 Torah and gospel do not point to Muhammad. Fact.

00:19:11.940 Not fact, because again, I said you're equivocating. It never says your gospel, Dr. Brown. If you were a Christian living in Egypt at that time, you would be reading the non-apocryphal works and not the canonical gospels.

00:19:27.420 Again, I would suggest that you look at the manuscript record. Lastly, you claim that there was first century manuscript evidence for the crucifixion and for eyewitness testimony.

00:19:35.300 Dr. Brown, what is that evidence? Because no New Testament textual critic in anywhere in the world claims that you have that early evidence.

00:19:42.760 It's either second or third century CE to start with.

00:19:45.000 Yeah, I'm not equivocating. You are putting words in my mouth.

00:19:48.760 There are New Testament manuscripts and a single papyrus in there that have been dated within the first century.

00:19:55.080 I did not say that it was specifically about the crucifixion.

00:19:58.000 Secondly, you know, Islamic apologists are constantly quoting the Bible we have and alleging that it points to Muhammad and then saying it's not the real Bible.

00:20:06.380 Which is it? Either we have the real Bible and allegedly points to Muhammad, but in fact it doesn't, or we don't have the real Bible.

00:20:12.780 You can't have it both ways. It's double-minded to argue that.

00:20:17.400 So it doesn't matter what other Muslim apologists say. What matters is what I say.

00:20:21.000 So if you want to use a false dichotomy or equivocate with their statements in mind, that would be incorrect.

00:20:25.540 Secondly, like I said, we have nothing dated to within a hundred years of Jesus.

00:20:29.920 That can be said to be accurately, textual, critically, manuscript-wise dated to within a hundred years of his time.

00:20:36.720 The earliest one is possibly P-52, but the paleographic date range extends into the third century CE based on the Comparanda provided by C.H. Roberts and Dr. Brent Longbrook.

00:20:46.440 So friends, any of you can check earliest New Testament manuscripts, get online and search for yourself.

00:20:54.620 Again, when you have 5,000 manuscripts within the first centuries, no ancient document in the world has been preserved like that.

00:21:03.120 And then here's what you have. You have the eyewitnesses who are willing to die for their faith and their disciples writing in the generation immediately thereafter.

00:21:11.160 You have a transmission, which is second to none.

00:21:13.720 It points us back to Jesus, who said, he is the way, the truth, and the life.

00:21:19.760 All right.

00:21:20.420 Is that the quick fire done?

00:21:22.480 We are almost over, but we each get a final word.

00:21:26.360 Ijaz, I appreciate your preparation and all the data that you're giving.

00:21:30.220 Obviously, we have strong differences here, but you get your last minute, then I get mine.

00:21:34.300 Go ahead.

00:21:34.740 So thank you, doctor.

00:21:36.940 I do appreciate, Dr. Brown, your time here with me.

00:21:39.640 I do look forward to your debate with Brother Zachary Hussain in London.

00:21:43.700 I know we all look forward to that with a great deal.

00:21:45.740 So again, I think that the conversation today was actually pleasant.

00:21:48.800 I did enjoy it.

00:21:49.840 But again, there is no early New Testament manuscript datable to within at least a century of Christ Jesus.

00:21:54.900 You can look up on the INTF website.

00:21:56.900 You can consult the Logos New Testament Manuscript Explorer.

00:21:59.820 In fact, I have Dr. David Allen Black's book here, and I have my critical edition of the New Testament here.

00:22:06.280 So exactly, I do know specifically when the Gospels were dated to and how we arrive at those dates.

00:22:11.720 I would end by saying this.

00:22:13.220 If the manuscript evidence was that easy to cite, then Dr. Brown should have been able to cite at least one manuscript, but he couldn't.

00:22:20.420 He would have provided evidence that there were eyewitness testimony.

00:22:22.940 Instead, he has to suppose and read back into history when, theoretically, these traditions can't be dated.

00:22:28.560 The fact is there is no manuscript evidence indicating that this is eyewitness testimony.

00:22:32.900 Thank you.

00:22:35.440 Again, just because Ejaz did not like this highly respected book by Richard Balcombe on eyewitnesses of Jesus,

00:22:42.820 I would encourage you to read it and check it out for yourself.

00:22:46.040 The second thing, once again, is do not be confused.

00:22:49.180 Look at the data of ancient books and how they are preserved.

00:22:53.060 Nothing compares with the preservation of Scripture.

00:22:56.760 And then the most important thing of all, and go ahead, check on manuscripts, check all the evidence.

00:23:02.460 Please do that, and then compare that with the textual evidence for the Koran.

00:23:06.900 You will be staggered by the difference.

00:23:09.220 Remember, the Koran points us back to the Scriptures, and the Scriptures point us to Jesus.

00:23:14.160 If you want to know the Heavenly Father, if you want to be saved and come into right relationship with God,

00:23:20.980 not by working harder and harder, but always falling short,

00:23:24.940 if you want to understand what real mercy and grace are,

00:23:28.320 they come to one place revealed by God through Jesus in the Bible, the one and only Word of God.

00:23:36.400 All right.

00:23:37.400 Okay.

00:23:37.960 That was wonderful, friends.

00:23:39.980 Thanks so much, Ejaz.

00:23:41.360 Really appreciate you coming on.

00:23:43.000 Thoroughly enjoyed doing this.

00:23:44.180 I hope you enjoyed it as well.

00:23:46.360 I did.

00:23:46.760 Thank you very much, Dr. Brown.

00:23:47.860 I look forward to engaging you again.

00:23:49.340 Yes, thank you.

Ali Dawah - September 02, 2022

MUSLIM SCHOOLS CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR - DEBATE

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