Ali Dawah - September 21, 2017


TALKING TO SWEDISH CHRISTIANS - BLIND FAITH VS REASONING

Topics
reasoning faith Quran errors
Hosted by
Ali Dawah
Mentioned
Shema Yisrael Jesus Christ Deuteronomy Abraham Obama Muhammad
ENGLISH LADY LEAVES MUSLIM SPEECHLESS WHAT IF LAS VEGAS SHOOTER WAS MUSLIM？ - EXPERIMENT

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

202.91

Word count

2,574

Sentence count

397

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the concept of the Trinity and how it can be seen in the Old Testament and in the Qur and written word. God can be one God, two God, three God, or even three God. How can He be all three at the same time?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Can I ask you a question?
00:00:27.680 Now I'm asking you, because you understand about Christianity, I want to know where in the Old Testament is the idea of the Trinity, is it mentioned?
00:00:44.680 You know the story of Abraham, when three great guests appear in his tent?
00:00:51.680 We have the same story in Abraham.
00:00:53.680 That's a manifestation of the Trinity.
00:00:55.680 Okay, but this is not clear. Can you see it's ambiguous?
00:00:58.680 Anything for you will be clear. Anything for you. If you don't want to believe, everything will be unclear to you.
00:01:04.680 Why do you always fixate in the issues of the Bible, the so-called issues that don't really exist in the Bible?
00:01:10.680 You don't look in the Koran, so many issues.
00:01:13.680 I'm trying to understand Christianity.
00:01:16.680 You're trying to refuse Christianity. 1.00
00:01:18.680 Okay, but seeketh the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
00:01:21.680 Yeah?
00:01:22.680 Yeah.
00:01:23.680 Okay, so let's not accuse one another of something we don't know, because I don't know what's inside of your heart.
00:01:30.680 Just like you don't know what's inside of my heart.
00:01:32.680 Maybe after tomorrow, I will be the biggest and better Christian than you.
00:01:36.680 Maybe. 0.98
00:01:37.680 Maybe three or four days from now, you'll be a Muslim. 0.99
00:01:39.680 I don't believe it.
00:01:40.680 No, but you know, you don't know.
00:01:41.680 Like, we don't know this, yeah?
00:01:43.680 Anyways, the point I'm saying is as follows.
00:01:45.680 God only knows the heart.
00:01:46.680 Yeah, exactly.
00:01:47.680 Thank you very much.
00:01:48.680 Only God knows the heart.
00:01:49.680 What I'm saying to you, my friend, is as follows, right?
00:01:52.680 I'm saying, as someone who looks at the Old Testament, yeah?
00:01:56.680 The Old Testament, which the first five books of which is sent to Moses, the rest of which are sent to other prophets.
00:02:03.680 When I look at these books, I'm trying to find the message of the Trinity, which then came afterwards in the form of the Nicene Creed in 325,
00:02:14.680 the Constantinople Creed in 381, you know, the Chalcedon Creed in 451.
00:02:20.680 These three creeds, I believe, formulated Christianity, yeah?
00:02:23.680 Now, your idea of theology and belief in God, my belief is, is shaped by these creeds, not the Bible, and not what the prophets have said.
00:02:36.680 Now, I want something very clear.
00:02:38.680 Just like in the book of Deuteronomy...
00:02:41.680 That's an assumption.
00:02:42.680 Okay.
00:02:43.680 What you're doing is an assumption.
00:02:44.680 Maybe you're right.
00:02:45.680 But I believe it's a justified assumption.
00:02:46.680 What I'm going to say to you is this.
00:02:48.680 In the book of Deuteronomy, chapter number 6, verse number 4, it says,
00:02:52.680 Shema Yisrael, Adonai Elohinu, Adonai Echad, the hero Israel, your Lord, our Lord...
00:02:59.680 Would you like to look at it?
00:03:00.680 No, it's fine.
00:03:01.680 Yes, but even Jesus confirmed that.
00:03:03.680 It's one God.
00:03:04.680 Confirmed that.
00:03:05.680 Now, if you're saying that God is one, and the Old Testament is very, very clear that Shema Yisrael, Adonai, Adonai, the one God is one God.
00:03:14.680 Can you repeat the quotation from the Bible?
00:03:16.680 Yes.
00:03:17.680 It's Deuteronomy, chapter number 6, verse number 4.
00:03:21.680 Okay.
00:03:22.680 Where it says...
00:03:23.680 It's called the Shema.
00:03:25.680 Everyone should know this.
00:03:26.680 It's very well known.
00:03:27.680 Yes?
00:03:28.680 This is the Shema.
00:03:29.680 Shema Yisrael.
00:03:30.680 It means, hear, O Israel.
00:03:32.680 Yes?
00:03:33.680 Hear, therefore, O Israel.
00:03:34.680 Yes.
00:03:35.680 That it may be real with thee, and that ye may increase mightily.
00:03:39.680 And the Lord God of thy fathers have promised thee.
00:03:42.680 No, no.
00:03:43.680 Deuteronomy, chapter 6.
00:03:44.680 Deuteronomy, chapter 6.
00:03:45.680 Verse 4.
00:03:46.680 Verse 4.
00:03:47.680 Verse 4.
00:03:48.680 Hear, O Israel.
00:03:50.680 The Lord is one God.
00:03:52.680 Of course.
00:03:53.680 Yes.
00:03:54.680 He is one.
00:03:55.680 That's the core of the Trinity.
00:03:56.680 Why?
00:03:57.680 Why he can be one and can be three at the same time?
00:03:59.680 Yes, please explain.
00:04:00.680 Yes, sir.
00:04:01.680 Because he's God.
00:04:02.680 Do you believe that your spirit...
00:04:04.680 Of course.
00:04:05.680 God is almighty.
00:04:06.680 If he's almighty, you shouldn't discuss such a thing.
00:04:08.680 No, no, no.
00:04:09.680 You're right.
00:04:10.680 I understand.
00:04:11.680 You have a point there.
00:04:12.680 Basically, you're saying, if God is powerful, he can do whatever he pleases to.
00:04:13.680 Of course.
00:04:14.680 Okay.
00:04:15.680 But now, what that makes it seem like is what you're saying is, for God to be...
00:04:18.680 It's like me going to a king and saying, if you are the most powerful, why don't you 0.91
00:04:23.680 come here and be a dustbin man? 0.98
00:04:25.680 Show me your power. 0.87
00:04:26.680 So, if he says, no, I'm not.
00:04:28.680 I'll say, ah, you are not powerful.
00:04:29.680 What we're doing is, we're using the concept of power in the wrong way.
00:04:32.680 Because we're saying, if you're the powerful, then if I said, okay, can God become a goat?
00:04:36.680 The concept of almighty is that.
00:04:38.680 No, but hear me.
00:04:39.680 Hear me.
00:04:40.680 Hear me.
00:04:41.680 Hear me.
00:04:42.680 If I said to you, can God become my true?
00:04:46.680 No, can God become my true?
00:04:48.680 The true here.
00:04:49.680 Okay.
00:04:50.680 So, you have to define...
00:04:51.680 He can, but he don't want to.
00:04:52.680 Good.
00:04:53.680 Wicked.
00:04:54.680 That's perfect. 0.97
00:04:55.680 What you said there...
00:04:56.680 It's not wicked.
00:04:57.680 It means good, very good.
00:04:58.680 I understand what you mean.
00:04:59.680 You made a really profound point.
00:05:00.680 You said, he can, but would he?
00:05:03.680 Yeah.
00:05:04.680 It's like Obama.
00:05:05.680 If I said Obama, why don't you join the American troops and fight?
00:05:08.680 He would say, I don't want to.
00:05:09.680 I can, but I don't want to.
00:05:10.680 Now, the question here is this.
00:05:11.680 The point is that he wanted to become flesh and he became flesh in Jesus Christ.
00:05:14.680 Okay, one second.
00:05:15.680 Now, you made a very valid point.
00:05:16.680 So, the question that we need to ask is, how could you come to us and say that God wanted
00:05:21.680 to become a man?
00:05:22.680 Where is your evidence that God wanted to become a man?
00:05:24.680 Because you said, he can, but would he choose to?
00:05:27.680 If he can't become a shoe, or a goat, or an elephant, why did he choose to become a man?
00:05:31.680 Just the way you said, can God become my shoe?
00:05:34.680 You said, he can, but would he?
00:05:36.680 Yeah, he would.
00:05:37.680 I mean, it's...
00:05:38.680 And that's the same way.
00:05:39.680 Look, my shoe, at least my shoe doesn't go toilet.
00:05:41.680 At least my shoe doesn't have to eat.
00:05:43.680 At least, but when you say God became a man, I have to think to myself, stop.
00:05:47.680 Okay, if you become a man, you have to eat.
00:05:49.680 When you eat, you have to go toilet.
00:05:51.680 So, I say to myself, God is all-powerful, go into the toilet.
00:05:54.680 Nah.
00:05:55.680 My innate, my heart says, that doesn't make sense to me.
00:05:58.680 What I'm saying is, this concept of God becoming human, where do we find that?
00:06:01.680 Where do we hear that?
00:06:02.680 God becoming human.
00:06:03.680 Human, yeah.
00:06:04.680 In the Bible.
00:06:05.680 In the Bible, yeah?
00:06:06.680 Yeah.
00:06:07.680 If the Bible is not the word of God, would that make you reflect and say, okay,
00:06:11.680 if it's because we only get it from the Bible, the Bible is our source, yeah?
00:06:14.680 If we can show you that the Bible is not the word of God, can you still say and rely on this scripture?
00:06:21.680 We believe by faith that this is the word of God.
00:06:23.680 Okay, let's read them.
00:06:24.680 I'm saying you're getting the scripture, like God being human, dying for your sins from the Bible, yeah?
00:06:29.680 Yes?
00:06:30.680 Yeah, Jesus Christ died for your sins.
00:06:31.680 Okay, if this information is in the Bible, yeah?
00:06:34.680 Yes.
00:06:35.680 If I prove to you, brothers, that the Bible is not the word of God, what does that mean for you as a person?
00:06:40.680 I don't believe you can prove that.
00:06:41.680 If I do, if I do, what does that mean for you?
00:06:43.680 I could prove that the Quran is not. 0.93
00:06:45.680 I will leave Islam if you do. 1.00
00:06:46.680 Right now, I'll leave Islam. 1.00
00:06:47.680 If you show to me the Quran has errors, if it's been changed, I'm telling you, I'm ready.
00:06:51.680 For example, the Bible and the Quran.
00:06:52.680 I'm being honest, what does it mean for you?
00:06:53.680 What would you do?
00:06:54.680 If I showed you the Bible is not the word of God, what would you guys do?
00:06:57.680 Well, if you prove me that, I mean, you cannot do anything.
00:07:00.680 If it happens.
00:07:01.680 Okay.
00:07:02.680 Even if you prove me, I will still believe it's true.
00:07:06.680 Even if you prove me, I will still believe it's true.
00:07:09.680 Good.
00:07:10.680 I will look for the answer.
00:07:11.680 Good.
00:07:12.680 Perfect.
00:07:13.680 You know what you've done.
00:07:14.680 I said to you, if you show to me in the Quran, there's errors of contradictions, I am ready to question and leave the fold of Islam. 1.00
00:07:20.680 Why?
00:07:21.680 Because if I put my faith into it, I'll say, even if you said to me, look, it says, yeah, the Quran is from Satan.
00:07:25.680 I'll say, no, I don't care.
00:07:26.680 My faith is strong.
00:07:27.680 You can't win with me.
00:07:28.680 I'm reasoning with you.
00:07:29.680 If you're true and sincere, which I'm sure you guys are.
00:07:32.680 If I showed you the scriptures corrupted, your heart needs to say, hold on a second.
00:07:35.680 I need to question everything about the scripture.
00:07:38.680 I'm ready to do that.
00:07:39.680 Why is it that when I ask you, you're saying, even if you show me, then how are you seeking the truth?
00:07:43.680 If I'm saying, okay, this is what it is without.
00:07:46.680 So what's different between you and the Hindu? 0.98
00:07:47.680 Yeah.
00:07:48.680 What's the difference between me and the Hindu?
00:07:50.680 They have faith.
00:07:51.680 They have faith.
00:07:52.680 Because your fathers believed in every religion.
00:07:53.680 And you have faith because your fathers believed in the religion.
00:07:55.680 In many, in many ways, we have faith in Jesus Christ.
00:07:58.680 I believe in Jesus because I have faith in Jesus.
00:08:01.680 But what about reasoning?
00:08:03.680 If somebody came to you and said, this is changed.
00:08:06.680 This is somebody, some man wrote this.
00:08:07.680 Are you still going to say, I have faith?
00:08:08.680 That's blind faith.
00:08:09.680 Okay.
00:08:10.680 What's five plus five?
00:08:11.680 Five plus five.
00:08:12.680 Yeah.
00:08:13.680 It's 10.
00:08:14.680 No, I believe it's 12.
00:08:15.680 I have faith.
00:08:16.680 Because in a different system of counting, it could be 12.
00:08:19.680 It could be...
00:08:20.680 No, no, no.
00:08:21.680 But how?
00:08:22.680 And you don't know.
00:08:23.680 You don't know that.
00:08:24.680 I mean, you see...
00:08:25.680 Please use your logic.
00:08:26.680 Let's use our logic.
00:08:27.680 Please.
00:08:28.680 I mean, well, yeah, we can use our logic.
00:08:29.680 Please.
00:08:30.680 You need to understand also that God, if He is Almighty, the same rules who works in
00:08:35.680 our logic does not work for His logic.
00:08:38.680 No, no, no.
00:08:39.680 The same rules rule you and me does not rule God.
00:08:41.680 Yes.
00:08:42.680 So then you can just be a Hindu then? 0.76
00:08:43.680 No.
00:08:44.680 Actually not.
00:08:45.680 Why are you a Christian?
00:08:46.680 Actually not.
00:08:47.680 Because God decides...
00:08:48.680 What makes you a Christian?
00:08:49.680 God decides to reveal Himself through the scriptures.
00:08:52.680 Yeah.
00:08:53.680 How we know...
00:08:54.680 How we know...
00:08:55.680 How we know...
00:08:56.680 How we know...
00:08:57.680 Of course.
00:08:58.680 And Muslims believe in Allah.
00:08:59.680 Yeah.
00:09:00.680 So you can believe in anything.
00:09:01.680 It's all about faith.
00:09:02.680 No.
00:09:03.680 Yeah, it's rationality.
00:09:04.680 Okay, let's use rationality.
00:09:05.680 But other rationality is faith.
00:09:07.680 No, no, but not blind faith.
00:09:08.680 You're right.
00:09:09.680 Faith, but not blind faith.
00:09:10.680 You're right.
00:09:11.680 Exactly.
00:09:12.680 That's what I ask you.
00:09:13.680 Yeah.
00:09:14.680 Because...
00:09:15.680 If we talk about blind faith...
00:09:16.680 Okay.
00:09:17.680 If you talk about blind faith...
00:09:18.680 Yeah.
00:09:19.680 Then you stop...
00:09:20.680 We should stop, I mean, attacking the deity of Jesus Christ.
00:09:24.680 And start to look in the Quran.
00:09:26.680 But that's blind faith.
00:09:27.680 Because...
00:09:28.680 Wait.
00:09:29.680 Blind faith is to believe in the Quran.
00:09:30.680 You know what the Quran says?
00:09:31.680 No, no, no.
00:09:32.680 Blind faith is believe in something without reasoning.
00:09:33.680 You know what the Quran says?
00:09:34.680 You know what the Quran says?
00:09:35.680 The Quran, you know...
00:09:36.680 For example, Muhammad... 0.99
00:09:37.680 Yeah.
00:09:38.680 Himself...
00:09:39.680 He was much inferior to Jesus Christ when we come to power.
00:09:42.680 He couldn't perform any miracle.
00:09:43.680 He died.
00:09:44.680 We don't compare prophets.
00:09:45.680 But this doesn't make it...
00:09:46.680 Look, there was other prophets that did other miracles.
00:09:48.680 I don't say this one is better than the other.
00:09:49.680 No, no, no.
00:09:50.680 You're fine.
00:09:51.680 Because you just can't believe in God to faith.
00:09:52.680 I agree with you.
00:09:53.680 I agree with you guys.
00:09:54.680 I will say to you, brother.
00:09:55.680 Oh, Allah.
00:09:56.680 This is what I'll say to you.
00:09:57.680 You're my friend.
00:09:58.680 I'm not coming aggressively.
00:09:59.680 Yeah.
00:10:00.680 I'm going to say to you generally.
00:10:01.680 Either we.
00:10:02.680 Yeah, same.
00:10:03.680 I want to say to you this, yeah?
00:10:04.680 I want to say to you this, my friend.
00:10:05.680 If you're saying we cannot agree upon rationality...
00:10:09.680 Sorry.
00:10:10.680 Hello.
00:10:11.680 Yes, I'll speak to you.
00:10:12.680 If you're saying we cannot agree upon rationality as a way to decide between right things and
00:10:18.680 wrong things, which is what you do in school, which is what you do at work, which is what
00:10:22.680 you do everywhere else.
00:10:23.680 But when it comes to the Bible, you don't want to do it for some reason.
00:10:25.680 If you agree that the Bible is only a faith thing and that we can't use rationality, then
00:10:30.680 I can't continue this conversation.
00:10:32.680 Why?
00:10:33.680 Because that means to me that you don't want to try and find the truth.
00:10:35.680 You just want to clutch on the religion of your father.
00:10:38.680 And for me, I cannot discuss with...
00:10:40.680 You see, I would just have to say to you...
00:10:42.680 Well, everything is not rational because it's also a supernatural dimension.
00:10:46.680 No, no, no, of course.
00:10:47.680 We believe in the supernatural.
00:10:48.680 What we're saying is that there should be some universal understanding of God.
00:10:51.680 Yeah.
00:10:52.680 We should all say, you know what?
00:10:53.680 We all agree on that.
00:10:54.680 He's the most powerful.
00:10:55.680 We all agree.
00:10:56.680 He's the all-knowing.
00:10:57.680 We all agree.
00:10:58.680 He's the most wise.
00:10:59.680 We all agree.
00:11:00.680 There should be a universal understanding.
00:11:01.680 I'm not saying I want to know exactly how God works.
00:11:02.680 Of course not.
00:11:03.680 God can do miracles.
00:11:04.680 If we went to...
00:11:05.680 If I stopped an atheist and I said, if there was a higher intelligence, would he be all-powerful? 0.98
00:11:09.680 He'd be like, yes.
00:11:10.680 I don't believe, but he should be very strong.
00:11:11.680 I'd be like, okay.
00:11:12.680 Should he be all-knowing?
00:11:13.680 He's like, okay, if he's a creator, he should know it all.
00:11:15.680 So this is something that universally we will all agree on.
00:11:18.680 What you're saying is faith.
00:11:19.680 Look, we have faith as well.
00:11:20.680 We say faith...
00:11:21.680 I don't believe by faith only.
00:11:22.680 I've seen this innovation.
00:11:23.680 Good.
00:11:24.680 Okay.
00:11:25.680 One second.
00:11:26.680 One second.
00:11:27.680 That's subjective.
00:11:28.680 I can say to you, Islam changed my life. 1.00
00:11:29.680 You say to me, Christianity changed my life. 0.99
00:11:30.680 Buddhists will say, he changed my life. 1.00
00:11:31.680 This is subjective experience.
00:11:33.680 We can't use that as an evidence.
00:11:34.680 I can't say Islam is the truth. 1.00
00:11:35.680 Why?
00:11:36.680 I became a better person.
00:11:37.680 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:11:38.680 What we're trying to say is, have faith and reasoning.
00:11:41.680 If you have only faith, that means cross the road.
00:11:44.680 Don't look left to right.
00:11:45.680 Close your eyes.
00:11:46.680 But you have to have faith that you won't get hit by a car.
00:11:49.680 And you also look left to right.
00:11:51.680 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
00:11:52.680 So what we're trying to say is here, that have faith.
00:11:54.680 But also have reasoning.
00:11:55.680 When you cross the road, you're not going to say, I have full faith.
00:11:58.680 I'm going to go.
00:11:59.680 No.
00:12:00.680 You're going to have faith and left right.
00:12:11.680 Should think?
00:12:12.680 Should.
00:12:13.680 Mean.
00:12:14.680 There's nothing.
00:12:15.680 No.
00:12:16.680 To be a part of an airplane.
00:12:19.680 Hey.
00:12:20.680 Give me one.
00:12:21.680 Na na na na.
00:12:22.680 pull two. 0.94
00:12:23.680 Yeah. 1.00
00:12:24.680 IOF fuck motherfucker. 1.00
00:12:25.680 Don't you want to do this. 1.00
00:12:26.680 You're like Atlanta.
00:12:27.680 Oh, you're not going to be a plan.
00:12:36.680 ty.
00:12:37.680 I'm sorry, I got a plan.
00:12:38.680 рав Soon Foreman.
00:12:39.680 Shoo, shoo, shoo, shoo.