Ali Dawah - May 14, 2025


＂WHY 72 VIRGINS IN ISLAM？＂ - LIBERAL & MUSLIM DEBATE


Episode Stats


Length

8 minutes

Words per minute

209.72359

Word count

1,783

Sentence count

131

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the controversial topic of VIRgins in Islam. Is virginity more important than pre-marital sex in the eyes of the Holy Qur and Sunnah? What does the Quran have to say about it? And why does it matter if a woman is a virgin or not?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 and attractive so you need to protect her from having premarital sex for the guy that she ends 1.00
00:00:05.960 up with. Islam doesn't say that. So just to be clear, Islam doesn't say that Islam protects her 0.95
00:00:11.240 so her valley doesn't drop. No, that can be maybe something down there, maybe a wisdom somewhere
00:00:16.900 down there. But the main thing. OK, well, the fact that that's a maybe wisdom, number one, that's wrong.
00:00:21.380 No, no, no, that's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong according to you. We're saying that is something
00:00:24.320 that they become less valuable if they have sex. They do. Sorry. They do. Sorry. OK, look, look,
00:00:29.800 that's such a wrong statement.
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00:00:59.800 My argument is like, I mean, part of my argument is that a lot of the stuff in here I don't feel
00:01:06.520 like makes any sense, right? Like if this is objective truth, right? Like it feels weird that
00:01:15.900 if you get into heaven, you get a harem of virgins, right? Like that's what, and again, 0.99
00:01:20.900 there are things like this. It doesn't say it in there. It doesn't? Is that a hadith?
00:01:24.440 Yes, a hadith. Yeah. So. That you get 72 virgins. Why doesn't it make sense? Why doesn't it
00:01:31.060 make sense? I mean, I feel like that's, so number one, it has this, I mean, it has this, uh,
00:01:38.620 uh, uh, it has this judgment statement on, you know, virginity is the first thing, right? Like
00:01:47.180 it, it, it, it has this, this, it has this judgment on, I mean, particularly women that
00:01:54.320 have had sex before as if that's less valuable than if like, is it, is it not? No, I don't
00:01:59.980 think that makes a woman less valuable if she's had sex before. So, you know, when I think
00:02:03.780 that that's, I don't know. What's worse? Is it when a man cheats or a woman cheats? In
00:02:08.060 Islam, they're both the same sin, but which one's worse? I don't think either of them are
00:02:12.120 worse. A woman can ascribe a child to you that doesn't belong to you. You can't do that. 1.00
00:02:16.460 Yeah, I don't. So, so what I'm saying is, so you see from certain paradigms, the reason
00:02:20.400 why, um, virginity matters, because to men it matters. Now you are saying that because you
00:02:25.060 have these preconceived notions and your society has put pressure under you, over you, like
00:02:29.640 as a man, we believe if you was born, um, without being affected by society, you will
00:02:35.420 not have an issue with saying, I want a virgin. Every man would say, I don't want another man
00:02:40.020 having, having my wife. Yes. Or, or my girlfriend, whatever that matter. Yeah. It's nobody, no
00:02:44.700 man would come and say, yeah, I have no problem. You know, if my wife had 50, uh, uh, boyfriends
00:02:48.620 or whatever, even one as men, we are created to have protective jealousy of our woman foe. So
00:02:52.780 the idea as the way we are created. So many, so your argument is basically my opinion. Preferences.
00:02:59.640 As men, our first preference, would you like, if you get married, would you say, I would
00:03:03.880 like a wife that slept around or hasn't slept with anybody? So the default position. 1.00
00:03:07.720 So my argument, my counter argument to you is that my disagreement with you that virginity
00:03:12.320 doesn't actually really matter is that it's informed by like Western secular ideals about,
00:03:17.960 you know, like, I mean the counter argument to that, which I think is very easy to make is
00:03:22.940 that yours is more informed by like the culture. Like there's been thousands of years
00:03:29.580 of favoritism towards, of sexism, of just social sexism towards women about, especially
00:03:35.980 centered on women's sexual activities. And that continues today. So Islam came to abolish 1.00
00:03:42.400 that by the way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, so I'm talking about male preferences. I'm not
00:03:46.300 talking about Islam. In Islam, it doesn't matter if a woman, she's a virgin or not. So what,
00:03:49.380 so what I'm saying is if in Islam, if, if it's a Hadith, obviously it's not to the same
00:03:54.340 level of Quran. So I'm not saying that it's the word of God, but if it's, but if it's 0.93
00:03:58.360 in Hadith, that this preference is codified, does that, does that not say something about
00:04:04.840 the value judgment of like Muhammad or the people who recorded what Muhammad were saying?
00:04:10.000 Like, it carries a value judgment that I think has been informed by...
00:04:14.740 His wives were not virgins. Yeah. So what I'm saying is as a male preference, I'm saying
00:04:19.640 from the get go, we as men, we would not, we would not want to like... 0.97
00:04:23.200 Which I think is, I mean, it's hard in my French, but I think that that's bullshit. I think 0.97
00:04:27.160 the whole thing that men prefer virgins, I think is informed by thousands of years of sexism,
00:04:34.080 right? Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's go back to it.
00:04:37.020 What I'm saying is in Islam, let me make this clear firstly, I'm just talking about from 0.96
00:04:39.980 a male, uh, as in Islam, a woman who has slept around, who's a prostitute, I shouldn't 1.00
00:04:46.500 swear. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They slept around and all that kind of stuff. If she 1.00
00:04:50.420 repents, her repentance is accepted. She's, she is, she is sinless. Islam, Islam accepts
00:04:55.140 her. No problem. I'm talking about male preferences here. Yeah. And also at the same time, there 0.87
00:04:59.000 is a hadith that says, it's better, it's preferred that you do marry a virgin. It's, it's a preference.
00:05:03.340 It's, the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam does encourage that, but in heaven, what you
00:05:06.840 get, these are, these are not human, these are not females that were judged on this
00:05:10.800 earth. These are specific beings that have been created for men. And the reason why the
00:05:15.740 72 virgin, even though there's a whole discussion about it, who's it for? Is it authentic? But
00:05:19.680 let's suppose we go with it. The, the, the argument is that it's a male, male's preference
00:05:23.120 that when you buy a, like, I don't want to obviously equate, um, cars to, to females. Yeah,
00:05:28.560 exactly. I don't want to. But what I would say is that, for example, that if, if whatever
00:05:32.720 you, like, for example, you, if you married somebody, you would not want her to know that
00:05:36.640 another man was intimate with her. That's natural. I'm saying, except the natural side of it.
00:05:40.100 So why is there no corresponding hadith for women who make it into heaven that they get 0.99
00:05:43.720 like 72 virgin?
00:05:45.700 Or just men. Not even virgin, but just men.
00:05:48.460 Because, because, this is one.
00:05:50.040 No, no, no, no, no. They get, they would, they would have their husband. Because the way
00:05:52.880 God Almighty has created them is that a woman does not have the propensity to want more 1.00
00:05:56.280 than one man. Women are monogamous by nature. 1.00
00:05:59.380 Yes. Yeah. So are, so are men.
00:06:01.940 No, they're not.
00:06:02.420 Yes, they are.
00:06:02.840 No, they're not.
00:06:03.340 Yes, they are.
00:06:03.680 Okay, let me tell you.
00:06:04.460 There, there are animals, there are animals that are monogamous by nature.
00:06:08.380 So why?
00:06:08.960 There are animals that kill other animals.
00:06:10.340 Yeah, so, no, no. And my point is, it's not, so you're talking biologically, your, your
00:06:15.600 argument is that biologically men are, are more attractive. Like, you're making, you're
00:06:19.640 making a biological argument.
00:06:21.020 We have this propensity.
00:06:21.400 And my biological argument to you is that there is evidence biologically that men and additional
00:06:28.720 animals, so it's not just humans.
00:06:30.940 Let's take the humans. 0.77
00:06:32.120 Well, no, I'm saying, because it's important to include other animals in this, because
00:06:35.000 we are animals.
00:06:35.360 We're not, we're not animals. We don't believe we're animals.
00:06:37.900 I mean, are you, are you trying to make a biological argument or are you not?
00:06:41.660 We're not animals.
00:06:41.880 Because biologically, we are animals.
00:06:43.560 No, we're not. What's the definition of an animal?
00:06:45.600 What are you talking about?
00:06:46.780 What's your, what's your definition of an animal?
00:06:48.520 I mean, there's a scientific, there's an empirical scientific definition of organism.
00:06:51.220 Which is what?
00:06:51.940 I mean, I don't have it off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong.
00:06:54.640 No, no, no, I'm not saying you're right.
00:06:55.740 My argument is that if you're making, if you're trying to say, okay, the virgin, the
00:07:00.700 haram of virgins is not a religious thing, it's just a simple biological preference for 0.99
00:07:05.660 the rationale behind that, you can't, you can't pick and choose which biological reasoning
00:07:10.660 you're willing to include and which ones you want to exclude.
00:07:12.900 No, no, I'm saying.
00:07:13.660 My biological argument is that we are animals, and there is evidence in humans and in other
00:07:19.100 animals that there is a biological preference for renogamy in some animals.
00:07:23.600 I'm not saying all.
00:07:24.120 Yeah, of course, I'm just not talking about humans.
00:07:25.340 So, yeah, and that's because we're disagreeing about animal-human.
00:07:29.400 I'm saying, let's just talk about humans, because we're disagreeing about you deemed
00:07:31.880 to us to be animals, I don't believe we're animals.
00:07:32.980 Okay, well, so my point is, either biologically the reasoning behind Hadith, the Hadith, is that
00:07:40.160 biologically men have a preference for virgins, in which case we can use biological rationale
00:07:45.120 to come to the conclusion that it's false, or we cannot use biological principles to understand
00:07:51.160 what the Hadith, like, why the Hadith ascribes that.
00:07:53.680 And in that case, I think that that indicates a moral flaw on that Hadith, and that's a larger
00:07:58.000 theological question.
00:07:59.200 I think if I went to...
00:07:59.920 Okay, so you're choosing, like, the problem with the conversation that we're having right
00:08:03.780 now is you're picking and choosing when you want to use biological rationale based on how
00:08:09.640 it suits what you're trying to say.
00:08:11.380 You're using...
00:08:11.920 How have I done that?
00:08:12.400 You're using the biological rationale to understand.
00:08:15.360 To watch the full discussion, guys, just click the link here or in the description box, inshallah.
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00:08:28.280 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.