＂WHY 72 VIRGINS IN ISLAM？＂ - LIBERAL & MUSLIM DEBATE
Episode Stats
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the controversial topic of VIRgins in Islam. Is virginity more important than pre-marital sex in the eyes of the Holy Qur and Sunnah? What does the Quran have to say about it? And why does it matter if a woman is a virgin or not?
Transcript
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and attractive so you need to protect her from having premarital sex for the guy that she ends
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up with. Islam doesn't say that. So just to be clear, Islam doesn't say that Islam protects her
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so her valley doesn't drop. No, that can be maybe something down there, maybe a wisdom somewhere
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down there. But the main thing. OK, well, the fact that that's a maybe wisdom, number one, that's wrong.
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No, no, no, that's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong according to you. We're saying that is something
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that they become less valuable if they have sex. They do. Sorry. They do. Sorry. OK, look, look,
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My argument is like, I mean, part of my argument is that a lot of the stuff in here I don't feel
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like makes any sense, right? Like if this is objective truth, right? Like it feels weird that
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if you get into heaven, you get a harem of virgins, right? Like that's what, and again,
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there are things like this. It doesn't say it in there. It doesn't? Is that a hadith?
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Yes, a hadith. Yeah. So. That you get 72 virgins. Why doesn't it make sense? Why doesn't it
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make sense? I mean, I feel like that's, so number one, it has this, I mean, it has this, uh,
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uh, uh, it has this judgment statement on, you know, virginity is the first thing, right? Like
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it, it, it, it has this, this, it has this judgment on, I mean, particularly women that
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have had sex before as if that's less valuable than if like, is it, is it not? No, I don't
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think that makes a woman less valuable if she's had sex before. So, you know, when I think
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that that's, I don't know. What's worse? Is it when a man cheats or a woman cheats? In
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Islam, they're both the same sin, but which one's worse? I don't think either of them are
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worse. A woman can ascribe a child to you that doesn't belong to you. You can't do that.
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Yeah, I don't. So, so what I'm saying is, so you see from certain paradigms, the reason
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why, um, virginity matters, because to men it matters. Now you are saying that because you
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have these preconceived notions and your society has put pressure under you, over you, like
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as a man, we believe if you was born, um, without being affected by society, you will
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not have an issue with saying, I want a virgin. Every man would say, I don't want another man
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having, having my wife. Yes. Or, or my girlfriend, whatever that matter. Yeah. It's nobody, no
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man would come and say, yeah, I have no problem. You know, if my wife had 50, uh, uh, boyfriends
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or whatever, even one as men, we are created to have protective jealousy of our woman foe. So
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the idea as the way we are created. So many, so your argument is basically my opinion. Preferences.
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As men, our first preference, would you like, if you get married, would you say, I would
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like a wife that slept around or hasn't slept with anybody? So the default position.
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So my argument, my counter argument to you is that my disagreement with you that virginity
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doesn't actually really matter is that it's informed by like Western secular ideals about,
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you know, like, I mean the counter argument to that, which I think is very easy to make is
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that yours is more informed by like the culture. Like there's been thousands of years
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of favoritism towards, of sexism, of just social sexism towards women about, especially
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centered on women's sexual activities. And that continues today. So Islam came to abolish
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that by the way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, so I'm talking about male preferences. I'm not
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talking about Islam. In Islam, it doesn't matter if a woman, she's a virgin or not. So what,
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so what I'm saying is if in Islam, if, if it's a Hadith, obviously it's not to the same
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level of Quran. So I'm not saying that it's the word of God, but if it's, but if it's
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in Hadith, that this preference is codified, does that, does that not say something about
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the value judgment of like Muhammad or the people who recorded what Muhammad were saying?
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Like, it carries a value judgment that I think has been informed by...
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His wives were not virgins. Yeah. So what I'm saying is as a male preference, I'm saying
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from the get go, we as men, we would not, we would not want to like...
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Which I think is, I mean, it's hard in my French, but I think that that's bullshit. I think
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the whole thing that men prefer virgins, I think is informed by thousands of years of sexism,
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right? Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's go back to it.
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What I'm saying is in Islam, let me make this clear firstly, I'm just talking about from
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a male, uh, as in Islam, a woman who has slept around, who's a prostitute, I shouldn't
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swear. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They slept around and all that kind of stuff. If she
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repents, her repentance is accepted. She's, she is, she is sinless. Islam, Islam accepts
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her. No problem. I'm talking about male preferences here. Yeah. And also at the same time, there
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is a hadith that says, it's better, it's preferred that you do marry a virgin. It's, it's a preference.
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It's, the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam does encourage that, but in heaven, what you
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get, these are, these are not human, these are not females that were judged on this
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earth. These are specific beings that have been created for men. And the reason why the
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72 virgin, even though there's a whole discussion about it, who's it for? Is it authentic? But
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let's suppose we go with it. The, the, the argument is that it's a male, male's preference
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that when you buy a, like, I don't want to obviously equate, um, cars to, to females. Yeah,
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exactly. I don't want to. But what I would say is that, for example, that if, if whatever
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you, like, for example, you, if you married somebody, you would not want her to know that
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another man was intimate with her. That's natural. I'm saying, except the natural side of it.
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So why is there no corresponding hadith for women who make it into heaven that they get
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No, no, no, no, no. They get, they would, they would have their husband. Because the way
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God Almighty has created them is that a woman does not have the propensity to want more
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There, there are animals, there are animals that are monogamous by nature.
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Yeah, so, no, no. And my point is, it's not, so you're talking biologically, your, your
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argument is that biologically men are, are more attractive. Like, you're making, you're
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And my biological argument to you is that there is evidence biologically that men and additional
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Well, no, I'm saying, because it's important to include other animals in this, because
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We're not, we're not animals. We don't believe we're animals.
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I mean, are you, are you trying to make a biological argument or are you not?
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No, we're not. What's the definition of an animal?
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What's your, what's your definition of an animal?
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I mean, there's a scientific, there's an empirical scientific definition of organism.
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I mean, I don't have it off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong.
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My argument is that if you're making, if you're trying to say, okay, the virgin, the
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haram of virgins is not a religious thing, it's just a simple biological preference for
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the rationale behind that, you can't, you can't pick and choose which biological reasoning
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you're willing to include and which ones you want to exclude.
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My biological argument is that we are animals, and there is evidence in humans and in other
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animals that there is a biological preference for renogamy in some animals.
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Yeah, of course, I'm just not talking about humans.
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So, yeah, and that's because we're disagreeing about animal-human.
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I'm saying, let's just talk about humans, because we're disagreeing about you deemed
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to us to be animals, I don't believe we're animals.
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Okay, well, so my point is, either biologically the reasoning behind Hadith, the Hadith, is that
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biologically men have a preference for virgins, in which case we can use biological rationale
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to come to the conclusion that it's false, or we cannot use biological principles to understand
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what the Hadith, like, why the Hadith ascribes that.
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And in that case, I think that that indicates a moral flaw on that Hadith, and that's a larger
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Okay, so you're choosing, like, the problem with the conversation that we're having right
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now is you're picking and choosing when you want to use biological rationale based on how
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You're using the biological rationale to understand.
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