In this episode of America First, host Nicholas J. Fuentes is joined by Charlie Kirk and The Fat Gay Retard, Vosh, as they debate the concept of Critical Race Theory, and how it relates to anti-white racism in America's schools, the military, the government, and the private sector. Join the conversation by using the hashtag on social media and to join the conversation! To find a list of our sponsors and show-related promo codes, go to gimlet.fm/sponsorships/AmericaFirst and use promo code: "sponsors" to receive 10% off your first purchase when you enter the offer code: AFRICA FIRST. Thanks to our sponsor, Timestamps: 4:00 - What is critical race theory? 5:00 What does it mean 6:30 - Is it a Marxist school of thought 7:15 - What are the origins of critical race theories 8:20 - What does the term "critical race theory" really mean 9:40 - Why is it a thing 11:15 12:30 13:20 14:40 15:00- What is anti-White racism? 16:30- What's the problem? 17:20- Is it really a problem 18:40- Why do we have to be white? 19:15- What are we really fighting for white people 21:00+ 22: How do we need a white people in schools 23: What does white people need to know about race 26: What is the point of Critical race theory 27: What do you need to do to be a white person in the first place? 29:00 + 32:00 | What is white people have to do with race theory ? 35:30 | How do I know white people are racist? 31:10 32:40 | What are you going to do about it? 36:10 - How do you know what white people should do with white people who don t like white people with a black face? 33:10 | How white people don t have a white face 34:00 // 35:10 + 36:20 | What do we know about white people like that? 37:30 + 39:30 // 39:00
Transcript
Transcripts from "America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. You can also explore and interact with the transcripts here.
00:07:54.000That's how it expresses itself in education.
00:07:57.000That's how it expresses itself in the military, in the private sector, in the federal government.
00:08:02.000What's happening in our schools and our military and our government is both simpler and easier to recognize than that.
00:08:08.000You could also say that it's just anti-white.
00:08:12.000So, anti-white racism is exploding across the country.
00:08:15.000Obviously, no one wants to say it, but it's right in your face every single day.
00:08:19.000When you say the military is practicing critical race theory, what actually does that mean?
00:08:26.000There might be a small handful of experts who could tell you exactly what that means.
00:08:31.000Because we've been tied up in some pointless debate about a concept that nobody can actually define.
00:08:35.000Maybe on a technical academic level you could say that that curriculum was inspired by critical race theory, which is a Marxist school of thought from certain academic institutions.
00:08:48.000The race hate, and that's what it is, has oozed from the universities and it has infected the entire country, including at the very highest levels.
00:09:18.000But as soon as people start playing games, I stop.
00:12:05.000And I'll be giving my commentary and my thoughts as we go on, but let's just jump right into it, because it's already begun here.
00:12:12.000Head over to TimCast.com, become a member.
00:12:14.000I'm going to put out a notification on Telegram, I forgot to do that.
00:12:16.000And exclusive access to members-only segments of this show.
00:12:18.000And I guess, I wasn't initially planning on it, but I guess everyone's cool to do a member segment after the show, and we'll find something fun to talk about.
00:12:25.000So, you know, we'll see how it plays out.
00:12:27.000So make sure you become a member, make sure you like this video, subscribe to this channel, share it with your friends.
00:12:30.000If you think this conversation is important, I'm sure there are many right-wing individuals like
00:12:34.000Get him Charlie Crush Vosch, and there's a lot of left-wing people being like, Vosch is gonna own... Share it with your friends, and let's have a good conversation.
00:13:09.000If you're in the live chat, if you're a subscriber, I'm not going to encourage people to subscribe, but if you are a subscriber, spam Nick Fuentes.
00:13:30.000Look, there are elements of mandates that I can agree with.
00:13:33.000We've already set standards for other things like the MMR vaccine, very basic standard vaccines that we expect everyone get before they can go to school, travel, and I think for the most part that's worked.
00:13:43.000We've eradicated plagues from the world.
00:13:46.000With regards to COVID, since this is an ongoing pandemic, we need to focus on approaches that are effective and that don't ostracize or exacerbate tensions.
00:13:54.000With regard to the Australian situation, it's not something I'm extensively familiar with, but generally speaking...
00:15:16.000This is trying to create a two-tiered system where if you don't make the proper medical decisions, you're not able to go to Broadway shows or go into restaurants, even when the efficacy of this vaccine is questionable at best.
00:15:30.000We see that in Israel, an 85% vaccinated country that's about to lock down again.
00:15:40.000So, sorry, you want to interject, Tim?
00:15:44.000Obviously against mandates and I think people should be able to make their own medical decisions.
00:15:49.000I think we actually have a story we wrote on TimCast.com that our view of the lockdowns is that it's alarmism because a new study from the Public Health of England found the Pfizer vaccine is 96% effective after two doses at staving off the Delta variant and AstraZeneca was 92%.
00:16:07.000But it's enough of an alarm for the public health leaders to undermine the argument that the vaccine is a solution to what would possibly satisfy the public.
00:16:16.000I mean, I was against the lockdowns in the first place.
00:16:17.000Let me be very clear, when there was a thousand deaths a day, not three hundred thirty four.
00:17:08.000We covered the data last week on the show.
00:17:30.000Compared to people who are unvaccinated.
00:17:32.000This is, by all means, an effective vaccine.
00:17:33.000What's your opinion of Johnson & Johnson?
00:17:35.000The FDA is saying that it might cause a rare nerve disease.
00:17:39.000Yeah, that's something that, first of all, when you take a look at that, you have to recognize that even if that was the case... Which the FDA says it is.
00:18:11.000Even if that claim is the case, it would remain the fact that unless the extent of that potential nerve damage is just apocalyptically severe, the effects of getting COVID would still be far, far worse than the potential side effects of that vaccine.
00:18:25.000However, if you were to say, let's say worst case, you know, Johnson and Johnson, it's not viable, that gets pulled.
00:18:34.000We're talking hundreds of are much, much, much more.
00:18:38.000So I just want to just kind of just play into the irony here that I'm the one criticizing the pharmaceutical companies and you're the ones that are, you're the one defending.
00:20:14.000Well, it's totally ironic, because I'm the one saying that they might be lying to us, and you're the one that's saying it's super effective.
00:20:25.000The only comment I'm making is as to the effectiveness of the vaccine.
00:20:26.000What do you have to say about VAERS, though?
00:20:27.000What do you have to say about the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System that says, well, over 7,000 people experience death after getting the vaccine?
00:20:48.000Yeah, VAERS is a government website that physicians or individuals can submit complaints or concerns after an adverse event report from a vaccine.
00:20:58.000Since you cannot win in court against a vaccine production company, then they go through some adverse event reaction.
00:21:11.000vaccine or you get some other procedure any medical drug done you can report the effects there and it can be a way of gathering sort of aggregate data concerning the effects of these of these potential treatments the problem is researchers don't use this as a bulletproof way of determining the outcome or effect of anything because they're
00:21:32.000...online submissions that anybody can put in.
00:21:35.000So I ask you, because I want to know, how do you arrive at the conclusion that, how many people did you say applied?
00:21:40.000Well, VAERS' own data is 7,000 plus, and most of which, by the way... That anyone can submit?
00:21:45.000By the way, most of which are physicians submitted, just so you know.
00:24:57.000First of all, if we're speaking to legal rights, the Supreme Court found over a century ago that when it came to vaccinations, this was a special exemption from some people's rights to... I will agree.
00:25:07.000When you choose not to take the vaccine, you contribute to the
00:25:13.000The vaccine is causing the mutation now.
00:25:35.000The mutation is in response to the vaccine.
00:25:59.000Elements to this disease that make it really difficult to pinpoint anything specific.
00:26:03.000The second, the two of which being A, hundreds of millions of people vaccinated.
00:26:07.000That is a huge range to pull data from.
00:26:09.000And B, the, you know, propagandist fear campaign.
00:26:28.000So, like, what if someone wanted to go to a restaurant, or a supermarket, or a movie theater?
00:26:31.000I think that, I mean, we don't have that for other vaccines, right?
00:26:34.000Like, every time you go to a movie theater, you have a little card.
00:26:36.000I understand that might be an effective... ...long term, my goal would be to integrate it into the same revenue... No, I think that's a more... I just want to make sure we weren't having, like, you know, misunderstandings... No, I think that's more of a reasonable answer.
00:26:54.000I'm curious, just on the vaccine topic in general, are you concerned by Dr. Malone coming out who literally invented the mRNA vaccine and says that there's a dangerous spike protein involved and encourages people to think twice before getting it?
00:27:54.000The process wasn't developed back during the MMR vaccine.
00:27:56.000Totally, but some of them are getting updated for the more mRNA-type technology, right?
00:28:00.000If he wasn't involved in the production of these modern vaccines, how could he possibly have any comment on any of the rigors or tests that were done before him?
00:28:08.000Because he invented this type of vaccine.
00:28:11.000I'm just saying, does that bother you?
00:28:12.000Do you think he's just like a fear propagandist?
00:28:17.000I have concerns, but those are concerns that I would rather have addressed by the scientific community rather than, with respect to you and myself, YouTubers.
00:28:23.000Well, no, I agree, but the question is which scientists, right?
00:28:27.000So there's a lot of scientists speaking out against this.
00:28:29.000They always appeal to the scientific community.
00:28:56.000I just want to say it's not just about the WHO.
00:28:58.000We're talking about a unified effort on the part of virtually every country on earth to get a hold of the vaccines that us Americans are privileged to have.
00:29:05.000This isn't some like pharmaceutical Dr. Fauci push that wasn't broadly supported by any of the relevant experts.
00:29:12.000In the mRNA field, which is not huge because it's a very new development, internationally there is a demand for these vaccines.
00:29:21.000I wanted to add, just based on what you had said, I can pull up Reuters, their fact check is that vaccines are not, quote, cytotoxic.
00:29:28.000They go on to mention that Robert Malone, and they show the Brett Weinstein podcast, they show cytotoxic, toxic to cells, the FDA did nothing.
00:29:47.000Like you mentioned, you said you trust Fauci or Weinstein.
00:29:50.000I don't know if there is a fact-based argument if you have the doctors you trust and the doctors you trust or the organizations you trust.
00:29:57.000It's a clash of who you believe, to be honest.
00:29:59.000None of us have the credentials to just come up with these arguments on their own.
00:30:02.000There will always be bias in who we choose to believe.
00:30:05.000However, given the plurality of people who seem to support the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccine, and the fact that it doesn't take a virologist to notice that over half a million Americans have died of COVID, more than the combined death toll from World War II and the Second World War in Vietnam... Nine out of ten with comorbidities!
00:30:27.000One of the issues with COVID, as it's brought up, where people would say something like,
00:30:35.000tends to be people who are over 70 or things like that.
00:30:37.000I'm only bringing it up, not to make the argument, but because you said, how would VAERS know if these are actually related to the vaccine?
00:30:42.000I'd love to respond to that, if I may.
00:30:47.000Like age, it causes a breakdown in other vital functions that then their death can be attributed to such.
00:30:53.000So, for example, of the many things that people die, it's not really COVID, it's just that COVID blanks their intake, claiming that there were deaths being spuriously attributed to COVID-19.
00:31:05.000There are people that got hit by a car, died, happened out of COVID, and they call that a COVID death.
00:31:26.000I just want to say for you, Charlie, I think, you know, the issue I see here is, for me, it's, I can't trust or distrust, I don't know, you know, I think Brett Weinstein's a very smart guy, and I don't think he's going to lie to me, and these doctors are very smart people, then I see the government agencies that, you know, I don't always trust the government, to be completely honest, I'm not a big fan, but to believe that there's like a nefarious effort or anything like that, ultimately what it comes down to is, in my opinion, having a trusted
00:31:56.000However, to mandate it for schools and for colleges, when these are highly complex medical decisions, that's where I'm going to push back against it.
00:32:05.000The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine, though.
00:32:19.000So I guess another question I have, what do you think of
00:32:23.000Well, because hydroxychloroquine studies have
00:32:33.000...when studies have found it largely ineffective.
00:32:35.000There was, I believe, a French study that stopped when people started dying of heart failure.
00:32:40.000I think the only reason the right dies in this hill is because Trump mentioned it.
00:32:42.000I don't think there'd be a push for it otherwise.
00:32:45.000The vaccines are the effective way of getting mass populations inoculated.
00:32:48.000And, while it is true that most of the people who die are ancient, the fact remains that people experience long-term side effects from getting COVID, even if they survive.
00:32:56.000I know people who are in their 30s, and you know me, a blistering 27-year-old myself, I'm not especially worried, but I've heard them talk about how much harder it is for them to climb up flights of stairs.
00:33:06.000I know that erectile dysfunction, fellas, is one of the listed... Is true that death is most comorbid.
00:33:20.000So, Johnson & Johnson is not an mRNA vaccine.
00:33:34.000So, there's an alternative to mRNA if you're concerned about it.
00:33:37.000And there was some guidance with the nerve disease with that.
00:34:29.000Do you think that there might be any bad motives behind these four companies, AstraZeneca, Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson, considering they are big pharma and they pursue profits, which generally, as a libertarian socialist, you're skeptical of.
00:34:47.000Do you think maybe they might have nefarious motives?
00:34:50.000Oh, their intentions are reprehensible.
00:34:57.000You know, an effort invested in by the collective good.
00:35:00.000Something I'm generally supportive of.
00:35:04.000When it comes to these companies themselves, and when I say, you know, go get your Pfizer vaccine, whatever, please do not mistake this or anything else that I say for an endorsement of the practices of these companies.
00:35:13.000It is only through cruel twist of fate and the economic system we live in that they are the ones put in a position to handle this.
00:35:20.000But it was the workers at those companies, not the CEOs, who did
00:35:25.000It's a consideration you should take about anything produced by any company that's run for profit, which is
00:36:16.000effort on the part of these companies to make sure they were the first, and they probably took every dirty advantage they could get.
00:36:20.000But with the data available, I have to still, much as I would say, hey, I would prefer eating McDonald's food to starvation, I have to say, this is probably still something we should be doing.
00:36:42.000I think that deep down you have this kind of, you know, urge that I'm already there where maybe they want this thing to go on for another decade to go make another hundred billion dollars and maybe the cheap drug of hydroxychloroquine or ibuprofen
00:37:15.000We just don't know and I just don't want to take it.
00:37:18.000This has been such a constructive discourse.
00:37:20.000And I would, unironically, actually trust it more in the hands of an ineffective, bloated government than I would the sociopaths who run it currently.
00:37:32.000This is one of the biggest things like YouTube is very strict on this especially, but I genuinely think Don't assume anyone here is right or wrong.
00:37:42.000I mean there's I'm sure there are people who think Charlie's made a bunch of good points
00:37:47.000And you have, ultimately it's down between you and your doctor.
00:37:49.000And I'll stress, you know, for whatever your opinion, Charlie, I understand.
00:37:54.000Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin haven't been approved by the FDA.
00:38:57.000Last time we had Vaush on, when you asked me about it, I couldn't give you a good answer.
00:39:01.000And I think we can, we can talk about what's happening.
00:39:05.000And I don't know if either of you has an opinion and wants to start off with, uh, Which is a highly esoteric, um, essentially
00:39:16.000Elective class that you can take in some law schools that teaches you a variety of incredibly eclectic legal theories that I, some of which I like and some of which I think I disagree with.
00:39:25.000And then there's the critical race theory that people like Christopher Rufo have been trying to push, a sort of catch-all term to describe all anti-racism.
00:39:32.000We see these anti-CRT bills being put through street legislators and a lot of them don't even mention critical race theory.
00:39:38.000They mention stuff that's been boilerplate anti-racist theory for like two centuries.
00:40:38.000It's not being taught to fourth graders, right?
00:40:40.000With that being said, it's almost like saying, you know, we're not teaching advanced geometry to fourth graders, but we are teaching them very basic math, right?
00:40:51.000We'll get them the Euclidean geometry.
00:40:54.000So the very basics of this are definitely in schools.
00:40:57.000And there's many examples of this, right?
00:40:59.000The National Education Association literally came out in their press release and said that they are going to push for, and their word was Critical Race Theory, just so we're clear.
00:41:10.000That's not Christopher Ruftho, that's not James Lindsay, who are good friends of mine, that's the National Education Association, right?
00:41:20.000And I think they might even be talking about something different than the Delgado Theory.
00:41:25.000We can talk about Critical Race Theory as an academic theory,
00:41:31.000Or we could use a filler term like wokeism, which is more like racial justice, which I actually think would probably be... Come on now.
00:41:37.000We can call it racial justice and meet in the middle.
00:41:39.000I mean, I really feel like there are probably four digit number of people in America who are studying actual critical race theory, not including myself, by the way.
00:41:49.000But I'm happy to talk about racial justice education and wokeism, which I think is what the discourse is centered on.
00:41:55.000Well, I think you guys actually agree, in essence, that the academic
00:42:01.000Critical race theory is there's overlap with a component and then someone will say cite one author of critical race theory that we've brought
00:42:11.000I just think that discussion is so unhelpful when Joy Reid and Christopher Rufo are screaming at each other, and Joy Reid is saying, like, it's not being taught anywhere, Christopher Rufo, so yes it is, when in reality they're both right, they're just talking about two completely different things.
00:43:10.000What I will say, though, about, to give credit to Christopher Ruffo, is that this is all kind of downstream from the conversation that Marcuse and Delgado started.
00:43:21.000But just one thing, though, since we're operating under the blanket wokeism, which is a really broad term, let's talk about, like, specific ideas.
00:43:28.000Because I'm sure there are some of them that I can provide
00:46:04.000You can put money into that community, but there's been research done on how long a dollar stays in a black neighborhood as opposed to a white neighborhood.
00:46:11.000And if a black neighborhood, all of the businesses are owned by, you know, corporate boards that are all majority white, eventually the money filters out and you get a very temporary ghosted living situation.
00:46:24.000Not based on race, but rather based on targeting neighborhoods that need it the most.
00:46:30.000I think that we should recognize that this is largely a racial project, because unfortunately poverty and race are really intertwined in this country.
00:46:48.000But in terms of applying it, I think that it would be much more healthy if we treated it like a collective effort to bring up the lowest sort of echelon of our economic
00:46:57.000So I want to ask you, Charlie, would you agree with a program that was... in, in, in... How do I describe this?
00:47:10.000Was not based on race, went to people based on class and neighborhood, so that it could help Latino...
00:47:17.000...and white people and Asians and everybody.
00:47:19.000First of all, I'm against reparations.
00:47:20.000I just don't like the word because it kind of implies this intergenerational guilt or allowance that I kind of reject.
00:47:58.000...distraction tool to throw smokescreen in the middle, while we're talking about something that we're never really gonna have consensus on, when the true struggle right now is mainly economic.
00:48:21.000The argument is in principle not about how it's implemented in practice.
00:48:23.000Maybe that would be the most direct interpretation, generational reparations.
00:48:25.000But in my mind, the reason why it's important to recognize the racial issue here is that the nature of class divides in this country is cut into racial policy prior to the Civil Rights
00:52:26.000In this economy, one parent, honestly.
00:52:28.000The rate of black fatherlessness is somewhat over-exaggerated.
00:52:35.000In large part because that number only applies to married fathers, so husbands raising their children.
00:52:41.000It turns out when you account for unmarried black couples taking care of their kids, the numbers actually rise to those just, I think, just below white couples.
00:52:49.000I think there was an article on that, I don't know if I remember, saw it in Vice, but it tracks back to some really big study that was done back in 2016.
00:52:54.000So that's one point, but you are right.
00:53:01.000This is a horribly designed program, undeniably, and it incentivizes bad, destructive behavior.
00:53:27.000The best thing that we can do, we restructure the welfare system in this country.
00:53:33.000I don't benefit from it, I don't think either of you benefit from it, I'm guessing, but we do collectively downstream from the increased economic potential of people who now have the money, the mutual project.
00:54:08.000The bigger issue with the racial thing is that when you put some of these factors in, even to present data, it doesn't pan out on racial lines, right?
00:54:17.000And this is where I think you'll agree, because you just said two parents in the home is a good thing, which we totally agree on.
00:54:36.000But I will say that if you look at the data from the government, that a white child being raised by a single mother is less likely to succeed by 10 independently picked metrics than a black child being raised by a mother and a father.
00:54:51.000And so maybe it's less about the skin color and more about the removal of parents and specifically fathers in the homes.
00:54:59.000Now, if you want to talk about a domestic Marshall Plan to go put fathers back in the home regardless of skin color, I will sign up for that in a second.
00:55:06.000With the right welfare, the right systems, I think people will tend to their own families.
00:55:10.000But that would then all of a sudden clear family lines.
00:55:12.000Well, no, I think that the neighborhood revitalization
00:55:18.000should just be on like a sort of class assessment.
00:55:20.000I think that when we recognize this problem, though, there are so many trends when it comes to poverty that involve the discussion of race, you know?
00:55:50.000Let me just point out all these white guys sitting here having a debate over the black community, huh?
00:55:54.000I just think that there is a lot of economic
00:56:00.000We don't need to turn this into some weird blood quantum machine where we go tracking down every black American and holding them under a microscope to see whether they get benefits.
00:56:16.000Because this is one of the issues I see.
00:56:19.000You see these conversations around... I don't know how you describe it, because it's a variety of things.
00:56:26.000Wokeism is typically a catch-all term for some kind of ideology that involves anti-racism, which involves critical race theory, critical race praxis.
00:56:34.000And you're seeing in schools specific curriculums where they say to kids, like,
00:56:42.000So much of debate and rhetoric is about using your platform to advance your agenda and your message.
00:57:31.000I think she mentioned it was a fourth grade but I gotta be honest like the anti-racist one didn't have any pictures or anything was just questions and I think she mentioned it was in a third grade
00:58:06.000Beloved figure in the minds of conservatives and liberals alike.
00:58:12.000So Ibram X. Kendi, and I'm paraphrasing, and you guys can pick up the quote, is that we need discrimination today because there is discrimination yesterday.
00:58:30.000I think it's misguided in large part because I don't believe... If there was some God who could just distribute all resources in a perfectly ordained way and did so at the snap of a finger, then maybe that would be a decent argument.
00:58:41.000In the real world, we have to go through politics, and any kind of discriminatory treatment under any circumstances, no matter how well-intentioned, is going to have adverse effects.
00:58:48.000So, with regard to what he said, there is a very charitable interpretation.
00:58:55.000Discriminatory practices in the past necessitate favorable practices.
00:59:01.000He wrote an amendment, right, called the Anti-Racist Amendment to the Constitution.
00:59:05.000It's not being considered any time soon.
00:59:42.000Sometimes gets brought into non-academic discussions, which I don't consider myself an academic, so I'm including myself in that.
00:59:48.000But sometimes I think these are fun to discuss, these ideas.
00:59:52.000What I noticed, at least in some of the classes that I took, the higher-end classes, you know, was that sometimes when you were presented ideas, they were presented not to have you agree with them, but rather to incentivize the greatest discussion.
01:00:03.000For example, I wasn't an economist, but I did learn about Karl Marx.
01:00:08.000Now, not many professors are actual Marxists, unfortunately.
01:00:12.000So when Marx was brought up in that context, it wasn't like, here's what you need to know, here's what you should believe.
01:00:19.000It was more, here are some people, what do you think about them?
01:00:26.000And when I look at what Kendi has written, I do enjoy the process.
01:00:34.000Based Nick Fuentes or Debate Nick Fuentes or just my name.
01:00:38.000But keep it going, keep it going strong.
01:01:03.000He was a very radical socialist in some regard, but he really hit it perfectly when he said that this was race.
01:01:14.000Well, I think depending on their environment.
01:01:19.000They might already, whether they know it or not, in very implicit and subtle ways.
01:01:24.000We know from tests done, for example, on, like, little, little kids, like four-year-olds or whatever, that some elements of implicit racial bias already infect their thinking.
01:01:52.000As don't care about it, de-emphasize it, looking that you should start to emphasize, organize what people look like because therefore it means
01:03:08.000There are some schools that do that, and while I would look to see their curriculum mended, I don't, again, I just don't want to implicitly agree with like a... ...about very basic early history, you know?
01:04:56.000And he did it because they felt, and this is according to historians, that without, I think it was South Carolina and Georgia, they would not have been able to win the Revolutionary War.
01:05:05.000And so they had to remove that, hoping they would stay in.
01:05:08.000Now, the reality is, let me just, I'll just say one more point.
01:05:12.000They thought they were going to lose anyway.
01:07:12.000Is that largely what we're seeing through school districts like Chicago and in Washington DC and the entire California school system representing 10,000 schools and 6 million students.
01:07:26.000Yeah, is that it doesn't have that kind of nuance and complexity that you just presented, right?
01:07:31.000Where it's, let me just say this, is that part of the kind of archangel triumphant of the woke-ism coalition is Nicole Hannah-Jones, Robin D'Angelo, and Ibram X. Kendi.
01:07:41.000And Nicole Hannah-Jones in particular, right, the author of the 1619 Project,
01:07:51.000She heretically says that America was founded on slavery.
01:08:56.000Because they were inspired by the Declaration of Independence.
01:08:59.000Things started to change in that year.
01:09:01.000Right, but the slaves that then continued to be slaves.
01:09:04.000Sorry, I didn't mean to miss out on the particulars there.
01:09:06.000The only point that I'm making is that depending on whose lineage you follow, depending on the narrative that you tell, this is a very postmodern idea.
01:09:17.000Which I think we all believe to some extent.
01:09:19.000Depending on who you follow, you get very different ideas on what America is, when America was
01:09:32.000And these conversations should be had.
01:09:39.000They're worthwhile conversations to have.
01:09:41.000I've seen some of the curriculums in these schools.
01:09:43.000I find some of them a little bit objectionable.
01:09:45.000But to be perfectly clear, I've found school curriculums objectionable for ages.
01:09:50.000About half of Americans believe in the lost cause myth, the idea that the North
01:09:55.000There is some truth to that, by the way.
01:12:00.000The narrative we've told about the founding of this country has for a long time been deeply whitewashed.
01:12:07.000We talk about the founding fathers like they're heroes.
01:12:13.000We've done, for example, that we would use as an incentive to forever despise other countries that nobody's even thought about.
01:12:22.000One I read recently, for example, was that we did mass chemical bathings, and I believe it was sterilizations of Hispanic people at the beginning of the 20th century, moving up past the southern border, because there were like these militias forming in towns near the border.
01:12:36.000And they just did it because they had the de facto support of the local government as a way of
01:12:40.000Is the goal to try to have young people graduate?
01:13:00.000...high school to be skeptical, apprehensive, and not very proud of the country, or eventually tell a true and patriotic story where you have people graduating that are thankful and have gratitude.
01:13:11.000That's the purpose of education when it comes through... Gratitude is not the purpose of education.
01:13:15.000Well, I think gratitude's a moral necessity.
01:13:18.000You should be grateful for the people in your life, but I will never be grateful to the state.
01:15:08.000What we want, where I think that we should try to be developing and graduating kids with strong character that want to appreciate and protect a country and to try to be active against forces that wish to deconstruct it.
01:15:23.000Your goal, and we're just not going to persuade each other, is that you want to try to graduate activists that know the flaws and are willing to mobilize to try to fix them or to undo whatever system might be effectuating.
01:15:35.000As long as it's responsible and effective, yeah.
01:17:20.000I don't want to see things they should be thankful for.
01:17:22.000For example, every day that I worked before I was a YouTuber, you know, I thanked union activists back during the turn of the 20th century who gave us the five-day work week, the 40-hour work week, who ensured that we had proper standards for lunch breaks and what have you in this, and they fought and they were
01:17:51.000Is there ever a point where the activism actually does much more harm than the preservation of what already exists actually should be desirable?
01:18:07.000I would say that's the case with black separatists.
01:18:11.000The racial problems between white and black Americans are irreparable, and that the best solution would be for black Americans to leave, or at the very least to form separate enclaves within this country.
01:18:23.000And that's nothing new, just so you know.
01:20:01.000I just think that everything has its time.
01:20:03.000You just had kind of a little bit more of a moderate answer.
01:20:06.000But how often do actual critical race theorists
01:20:12.000come on like all of the like talk show circuits that end up I mean we've had some I mean it's military they're running away they're right there there is sign
01:20:23.000I'm not a big fan of her largely because I think her language incites a lot of negative discourse.
01:20:31.000I think that it's bad for publication.
01:23:27.000I would say... I mean, I don't know what you mean by wokeism, but I think that there are plenty of progressives... Well, you've defined it, which is that idea of judging people based on skin color, discrimination, now... I would say that what I've advocated for represents the super majority of progressive opinions, and what we're largely seeing is a couple of really bad examples being brought to the limelight because they're most objectionable.
01:24:04.000It reminded me of those old Chinese philosopher generals.
01:24:09.000Because they've been discriminated against on racial lines they don't like.
01:24:13.000One guy I met said he was planning a lifelong career in the military and immediately got out because they implemented these policies of white racial trainings.
01:24:20.000They were told that the symbols of America are no longer allowed to be displayed in private because they're extremists.
01:24:44.000There's some broader political, social, cultural trend happening and they think, who's someone we could get?
01:24:50.000And if you look up racial sensitivity training on Google or anywhere else, some names are going to pop up and we know which one comes up first and they just hire that person because they've got money and they need to spend it before the end of the quarter so their budget doesn't get cut.
01:25:08.000If a corporation were to tell, say, white employees that they had inherent characteristics based on their race or that they should undergo some kind of course or class based on... You mean legally or like morally?
01:26:58.000To me, a movement which recognizes the racial discrimination, the systemic racism that exists, that there are problems we have yet to overcome.
01:27:11.000So first, the one thing I wanted to highlight, let me actually pull this up, is that net support, which is support versus opposition, before George Floyd died for Black Lives Matter in this country was 16% net support.
01:27:23.000As of today, according to Civics, it's 3%.
01:27:26.000That brings it all the way back to 2018, to August 16th.
01:27:31.000Now, one of the things I think is really important to note is that the severe tribalism and hyperpolarization... And by the way, Vaush, of course, is far more extreme than he's presented himself throughout the debate.
01:27:40.000Everything that he says is so caramel.
01:27:42.000We're more alike than we may think, huh?
01:27:51.000You take a look at the independents, though, people who don't align, and I would say, what is the date around?
01:27:57.000Around May 1st, there was an inversion, and now the majority of independents oppose Black Lives Matter 44% to 39%.
01:28:03.000That's not surprising to me, given that there's been very little in the way of optical... I'm sorry, you haven't spoken in a while, I apologize.
01:28:11.000No, I'm... I just wanted to make those data points.
01:31:36.000I've also read stuff... I'm sure we could do that, but I don't know.
01:31:38.000Apparently murder actually has a very low default recidivist rate, because usually it's done under a very specific set of heated conditions that don't actually speak to a person's character, which makes you wonder a lot about like moral worth and what really drives a person to do that sort of thing.
01:31:51.000I think it's something we should look at critically, though I don't have any really strong database documents.
01:31:56.000The last thing I want to say, because we should aggressively look at the ways our sentences
01:33:36.000The average rapist serves four years in prison, and they're very likely to rape again.
01:33:44.000Hey, look, if you want funding that goes to police departments to go towards actually looking at the rape kits that they take, rather than stuffing them into a bin... Well, over 250,000 untested rape kits in the tri-state area in New York City.
01:34:23.000The viability of broken windows policing is...
01:34:28.000...challenged substantially, but there are admittedly some benefits.
01:34:32.000The argument that I would make is that what you're really doing is you're forestalling the problem.
01:34:37.000There are socioeconomic conditions that increase criminality, not because it makes people worse people, but just because oftentimes crime isn't some direct indicator of poor moral conduct.
01:34:47.000Oftentimes it is a crime of necessity, or it is a crime born of...
01:34:55.000What would possibly be a crime of necessity?
01:35:00.000I know for, I can at least speak to personal experience, that I knew some people involved, like they said they would sometimes peddle drugs, and they did it because while they may have been accounted for by the welfare state, their parents' medical bills weren't.
01:35:58.000It is always a choice, but what we're really talking about is the limits of determinism here.
01:36:02.000How much do we choose the things we do?
01:36:04.000You can make an argument that it's all... I mean, you're religious, of course, so you wouldn't have this argument, but... I wouldn't have anything close to this argument.
01:36:09.000From a secular perspective, you can make the argument that, at the end of the day, the things we do are driven entirely by the chemical reactions in our brain, and therefore, everything that we do, from start to finish, is just a combination of
01:36:28.000The fact that, for example, having a single parent while growing up is a pretty strong criminal indicator is a suggestion that, I mean, is it an indicator of a person's inherent moral worth that they were born with a single parent?
01:36:41.000So that statistical difference has to be accounted for by the inevitable fact that environmental differences can lead to harsh outcomes.
01:36:49.000The question is, though, do you then create a set of lack of enforcement to say that we're actually not going to enforce looting, where you had
01:36:57.000An entire article in National Public Radio, not saying you believe this, that says the case for looting, right?
01:37:02.000San Francisco's basically not going to prosecute you, right?
01:37:07.000Videos of them stealing entire Walgreens, right?
01:37:13.000And then you have, and just one other day, we had a massive defund police, almost kind of, we're going to be relaxed on criminality type movement.
01:37:33.000I could think of one, maybe two examples where I would make a moral claim of a crime of necessity, and that would be a revenge crime if someone murdered your wife or your kid.
01:37:53.000But the idea that in the welfare state that we have...
01:37:57.000With the private philanthropy kind of generosity we have, that shop that we should just say, you know, it's actually because of the environment.
01:38:05.000I don't know why you pointed at me when you said that.
01:38:25.000Emile Durkheim, cool guy, thought that crime was sociologically useful because it shows you where the antagonisms are between people's wants and the state's desires.
01:38:46.000How is it that we have a crime surge right now?
01:45:39.000I will say that the lockdowns were way too harsh and intense.
01:45:42.000I will say there is a Fifth Amendment argument to be made though that if the government forces you to not work then you should be able to get something in return.
01:45:49.000The government cannot take something from you constitutionally and not
01:45:56.000Which was one of the best arguments for the stimulus package.
01:45:59.000I just think the lockdowns were far too severe and far too intense and really infringed on people's liberties and abilities to be able to take risks.
01:46:59.000Socialists tend to think that human beings are fundamentally positive, but I reject that because... That's why I'm curious, because you see way too cynical for that.
01:47:06.000Well, the implicit suggestion to that... This is an interview!
01:47:09.000This is like a Tucker Carlson imitation interviewing Bosch.
01:48:00.000I think, you know, I mentioned this before the show, if you were to ask anybody on the left or the right to pull people out of poverty, things like that, I guess the issue is disagree on how we get there.
01:48:16.000Well, I think we want... I'm not sure if we want the same thing.
01:48:19.000I want more preservation and conservation of what we already have.
01:51:54.000What I live in today would have been incomprehensible to them in every imaginable sense, every conceivable way.
01:52:00.000But their arguments for the permanence of society then would have been better than mine today because they would have lived in a stable, feudal society for millennia.
01:52:11.000And today, I now am here using technology that would have been alien to humans 20 years ago.
01:52:17.000I think about, like, the Cultural Revolution, I think about the revolution in Russia, and you mentioned that conservatives tend to be more fearful, and I think there's history that shows us, and then end up with an unchecked movement
01:55:09.000You know, nowadays, I mean, obsession with race can be pernicious in many ways, but I think there's a pretty big difference between being obsessed with the idea of racial equality and being obsessed with racial domination.
01:55:18.000I think it's equally as pernicious, just they don't have the power to implement it.
01:55:21.000But we kind of already did that whole discussion.
01:58:02.000I expected you to use a 1930s reference earlier, so congratulations.
01:58:07.000I'm not calling you a fascist, I'm only saying that... No, I know, you did do the correct, I didn't mean to hyperbolize, but there's other nations today that have those values that we would never call fascist, like Japan.
02:01:06.000So where do you get those limits from?
02:01:08.000Well, obviously you would probably have to have a pretty complex interlocking legal system to determine what we agree upon as, like, reasonable limits we can place on people's behavior.
02:01:52.000Eventually you do agree that a conservative framework is necessary.
02:01:55.000I don't think that's a conservative framework, because there are other things I care about that you would always disagree with, like collective ownership of the means of production.
02:02:24.000I'm kind of interested what you think about, I think humans are inherently destructive by nature and that if you took a human and put them in a room with a bunch of small animals and plants over time, his hunger, purely because of hunger, ultimately, he would destroy and consume all of those animals and all of those plants.
02:02:41.000And then if you put another human in there.
02:04:05.000The Tucker thing is so alienating and off-putting, I can't even begin.
02:04:09.000We're better receptive to reward incentives than any other... We mentioned in the beginning, go through and try and find really good questions.
02:04:18.000A lot of people are saying really awesome things.
02:04:21.000I want to read one that's not a question real quickly.
02:04:47.000And then, uh, afterwards, uh, if we still have time, uh, permitting, I would like to do the- the member segment, and then personally be more involved than I've been for the most part.
02:05:28.000I understand people's discomfort with abortion.
02:05:31.000I think that unfortunately it's a legal necessity as a byproduct of some very compelling personhood arguments I've heard in the past, which I would have to read up on again before reciting.
02:07:25.000And Charlie Kirk would be way more French.
02:07:43.000I'm just, so is it more on the size of the being, or the level of development of the being, or the environment of the being, or the degree of dependency?
02:07:55.000The degree of dependency is legally worthwhile, but for consciousness, I think it's more about it being an emergent property of experience.
02:08:06.000So is it okay then if we just basically pull the plug on all the people that are kind of comatose and cucumbers on machines?
02:08:12.000They really don't have self-consciousness and they're very dependent.
02:08:16.000Well, I mean, legally, we do believe that.
02:08:18.000Because if you have... Oh, it's very tricky in the courts.
02:08:20.000It is, but it's not the same as murdering a person.
02:08:23.000If there's conservatorship over a person who's brain dead, there are instances where you will be allowed to pull the plug.
02:08:29.000This is... You can't do so without an arbiter, though.
02:08:31.000You can't just call in and say, just pull the plug.
02:08:49.000I want to make sure we can get to as many questions as possible.
02:08:53.000Camilla Mamani says, WTF a libertarian socialist is like a meat eater vegan.
02:09:00.000These people are like room temperature IQ.
02:09:01.000The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ.
02:09:02.000The people answering them are like 100 IQ.
02:09:03.000The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ.
02:09:05.000The people answering them are like 100 IQ.
02:09:06.000The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ.
02:09:07.000The people answering them are like 100 IQ.
02:09:31.000You have the only persuasion tactics... If you're a left libertarian, which exists, you're basically saying, I like socialism, now I have to convince people that it's the right thing and they'll agree with me, and people just won't... I find left libertarians less threatening to the American way of life.
02:09:59.000No, I just want to say, for what it's worth, there are some people who call themselves socialists, who I actually think would agree probably more with you than with the call.
02:10:11.000I can't help but think, like, okay, these are conservative, what would you call them, traditionalist social positions, and you defend, you know, a strong state with a strong common will towards the betterment of the state and the foreign market.
02:11:06.000I think we almost achieved it tonight, which is that we're about to tear this country apart.
02:11:13.000And I think dialogue is something that is so beautiful and is so complex and almost spiritual in nature that if we don't have dialogue with people that you fundamentally disagree with, then there's really not a middle ground.
02:11:34.000Yeah, what's the biggest issue of 2022?
02:11:35.000I agree that the political rift is... fix it.
02:11:41.000We just had a civil war, and people were still mad after, so... I hope that doesn't happen.
02:11:46.000I don't think we're gonna have a civil war, by the way.
02:11:48.000There are some people... I think that at the end of the day, there's a big difference between the problems we're told to care about and the problems we're willing to fight about.
02:11:57.000And I'm not entirely sure if I know where those lines are, but I know there's a difference.
02:12:01.000With regards to what I'd care about, for me it has to be climate change.
02:12:04.000I know a lot of people roll their eyes at this stuff, but, like, you can take a look at the polarized caps, you can take a look at the weather disasters we've been having, increasing both in frequency and intensity.
02:12:12.000This isn't like a, like, look, think of it this way, okay?
02:12:15.000I believe in American industry, alright?
02:12:33.000Is the video I made before the before the actual Green New Deal talking about how we needed a Green New Deal and then AOC's Green New Deal was like equity and college and health care and out and then the botched FAQ and I was like I'm talking about why are we spending money on war when we could when we could be researching green technologies and more efficient energy thorium salt reactors things like that get fusion to ignite instead we get this like racial equity garbage bill this is I had this I did
02:13:04.000Um, but I had this problem, too, with that Teachers Union bar.
02:14:51.000The only thing I wanted to say, because I have to move back like six points here, is that with regards to the teachers board you spoke on, and the Green New Deal, I sometimes feel like the left is a little bit bad when it comes to mixing all their causes.
02:15:04.000If they, speaking of separatism, if they kept things a little bit more stringent, a little more focused, maybe they could get people to agree on some of it.
02:15:11.000But if every push for climate change is also every other progressive note, and every push for racial equality is every other progressive note.
02:15:33.000And I'm like, maybe that's why you'll understand when people are writing like, whiteness this and people of color that.
02:15:38.000I'm like, I don't, I don't exist in that world because I've been discriminated against by all of these people.
02:15:43.000And when that person said to me, you know, the perils of mixed racing or race mixing, he's talking about me personally saying, I don't understand the tribalist worldview of racialists and identitarians because I've never experienced what it means to be in a racial tribe.
02:16:28.000For the progressives to come out right now and claim civil rights and say, we did all these things, and then tell me I now face a detriment.
02:17:32.000You know, when I read stuff like that, it's interesting stuff, you know?
02:17:35.000I don't think of this, all men are bad, all masculinity is bad, it's more of a salient critique of certain cultural trends.
02:17:41.000Now, the problem that I have is essentialism.
02:17:43.000Some people will take this, on both the left and the right, and they'll think of it as an individual critique, which it should never be used as.
02:17:50.000If I were to say something like, imagine I'm reading MLK back in... That's kind of ironic, don't you think?
02:18:32.000If the stereotyping is, I notice there's a big difference in abolitionist thoughts between white and black people in Southern America in 1852.
02:18:41.000Maybe that's the kind of stereotyping that can be used for good.
02:18:44.000Also, stereotyping, by definition, is assuming characteristics of an individual because of their part of a group.
02:18:49.000That's close to what MLK was saying when he said white liberals.
02:18:53.000You wouldn't apply it to an individual, though.
02:20:43.000This guy talks so much and says nothing.
02:21:16.00030 times as likely to know a person who identifies as trans or non-binary or whatever.
02:21:20.000And for that reason, conversations on those subjects have become significantly easier, just because people have been exposed to the concept.
02:22:27.000Precedence definitely matters, especially in the American system.
02:22:32.000And the idea of the whole third branch of government really kind of came into question with Marbury versus Madison.
02:22:39.000Supreme Court Justice of the United States John Jay, I believe, who was one of the co-authors of the Federalist Papers.
02:22:47.000It's a super important thing that Conservatives need to talk more about, which I think you would agree with, Vaush, is that precedents can be really bad.
02:22:58.000Supreme Court justices, two Democrats, that said black people were not people.
02:23:02.000And that precedent was in law, basically, for many decades until it was eventually reversed, largely because of the Brown v. Board of Education.
02:23:26.000And so the question is, where do you strike that balance?
02:23:29.000Alexander Hamilton predicted that it would be mostly based on public opinion, that judges are still people too, and they're going to look to public opinion.
02:23:37.000This goes to more of a Democratic argument than a Republic-style argument.
02:23:41.000I will defend precedent more than overturning, but I definitely think the court has gone wrong in a variety of different decisions in the last 60 years.
02:23:50.000Um, I think I would lean more towards precedent as well, though maybe for a different reason.
02:24:12.000...legal trends through anything other than appoint better judges, which can be an incredibly long-standing process, and even then it's what, a crapshoot?
02:24:19.000I mean, you don't know everyone's opinion on everything.
02:24:21.000That being said, I do think that to an extent judges are legislators.
02:24:25.000This is actually a critical legal theory perspective which fed into CRT, the idea that within the bounds of discretion, judges will almost always side with the political biases they have.
02:25:19.000But it's like, how did you get that wrong?
02:25:21.000Unless somebody's like, screen-grabbing it.
02:25:23.000Hey, listen, after the Twitter trending title descriptor had to spend like six weeks in a row describing everything that happened with those Minecraft videos.
02:25:31.000Maybe somebody's re-streaming it on Twitch or whatever, you know?
02:27:12.000And be able to determine good ideas from bad ideas.
02:27:18.000So I think there's actually something to that, that if you introduce philosophy too early, you can create
02:27:27.000...create kind of one-liner philosophers that think they understand the entire world, and it really goes to that expression, the more I know, the more I realize how little I knew when I thought I knew it all.
02:27:36.000That's kind of that idea of daring to know.
02:27:38.000People should not be taught philosophy.
02:27:42.000People should be taught to obey the state and to shut up.
02:27:54.000We'll focus on religion, and for everybody who superchatted, I know I really wish I could get to every single question and comment, but when you guys, we ask a question and you guys have that debate, that's the point of this, so, you know, I tried to do as many as we could.
02:28:08.000I just thought it was better to let you guys talk instead of constantly trying to just cut off the actual discussion and the flow of things, so my apologies to everybody who superchatted, but if you go to TimCast.com, become a member, we are going to now have another conversation, which I don't believe will be up by 11pm this time, because
02:31:38.000Tim Pool, John Doyle, Elijah Schaffer, Avash, Charlie Kirk,
02:31:45.000It's very enriching and we're all glad that everyone is having conversations.
02:31:49.000We're just glad to be having the conversation.
02:31:52.000Can I just say, excuse me if I may, apologies if I'm interrupting, but if I may, can I just say that I am so flipping impressed that we're sitting around here talking to each other civilly even
02:33:42.000I don't want to be alive anymore but alright enough complaining I want to get through the super chats but first I just want to summarize briefly my thoughts you know
02:34:11.000You know, Vosch comes from Twitch and from YouTube and he's a live streamer and Charlie Kirk really comes from a more conventional political background.
02:34:20.000Charlie Kirk is, you could say, a professional.
02:34:24.000...streamer and rapidly growing, but an amateur one.
02:34:27.000And so, you know, it's interesting because Vosch getting on Tim Pool, it's a big opportunity for him, and the debate with Charlie Kirk in itself confers credibility on Vosch because Charlie Kirk is a conventional and a high-profile political actor.
02:34:45.000Charlie Kirk is an ally of former President Donald Trump.
02:34:54.000So, Charlie Kirk agreeing to debate Vosh Appear on the same debate with him in itself legitimizes Vosh and elevates him to a comparable live stream audience on the internet.
02:35:10.000Get a comparable radio audience or listenership on a podcast, but the demographic cohort is different that that would follow him on that medium.
02:35:20.000So I'm not saying that he's as popular more popular.
02:35:23.000I'm saying that in terms of legitimization, he comes from a more conventional and legitimate political background.
02:35:29.000So already by agreeing to come to the table.
02:35:35.000I don't know that there's a big benefit from Charlie Kirk other than he becomes part of this conversation on this medium for a younger audience and for a different audience than he's used to.
02:35:52.000Charlie Kirk is seen as an establishment actor.
02:35:56.000I mean, people look at him and they see a conservative partisan.
02:35:59.000But the Tim Pool Show, and it's also, it's sort of like part of the political realignment that's been happening since the 2016 election.
02:36:09.000So, Charlie Kirk, by inserting himself, does legitimize Vaush, but at the same time,
02:36:17.000It also might change people's perspective on Charlie Kirk and you know maybe they see him less again as a conservative Republican partisan and more as as I don't know maybe they see him as a young voice with maybe something different to say so he has an opportunity to change people's expectations or their perception of him so that's what I'll say right out of the gate that
02:36:42.000That's why it's interesting to have that matchup because they're not similar.
02:37:40.000They will always concede far more ground than they need to.
02:37:42.000In other words, you know, the point of a debate is that two opposing sides, opposed to one another, meaning differentiated and opposed on the key points,
02:37:55.000Come together to clash and argue their sides.
02:37:59.000The purpose is not to achieve a resolution.
02:38:03.000The purpose of having two opposing sides meet and exchange ideas and have a crosstalk is so that the audience, the moderator is there so that there can be a sort of clear exchange.
02:38:25.000They will decide where they fall along the spectrum.
02:38:28.000Do they agree totally with one side or parts of the other side?
02:38:33.000And Conservatives, what they will do, is they will, in an attempt to build consensus, in an attempt to be agreeable, they will move their position so that it is less differentiated from the opposing side.
02:39:12.000They're not going out there to make a compelling conservative case.
02:39:16.000They're going out there to make a case for their personal brand.
02:39:20.000And they're doing that by making their personal brand more agreeable and more moderate and less divisive and less polar.
02:39:29.000And so Charlie Kirk came into the debate and did he say the vaccine is deadly?
02:39:36.000and you shouldn't get it and it doesn't work and they're lying about it he came in and said well I think you're a good guy and I think you have good intentions and I think we basically agree I'm just saying that I don't think I should get it and you always hear this kind of stuff all I'm saying is this I'm just saying this
02:39:54.000Minimizing and moderating the position they're staking out.
02:40:00.000I don't disagree with the status quo that much.
02:40:03.000I just have a small contention with it.
02:40:05.000The problem with this in particular for conservatives is that all, all communication platforms are pushing for the opposite poll.
02:40:15.000All social media, all of mainstream media and
02:40:21.000You know, the traditional television networks, radio stations, and newspapers, and print, and the think tanks, and so on, and the government bureaucracy, they're all pushing for the left-wing position.
02:40:32.000The left-wing position that's all the way over there.
02:40:35.000And conservatives say, well, I'm going to minimize my opposition to that.
02:40:39.000I'm going to stake out the smallest, least controversial position possible.
02:40:57.000Let them find something modern, an alternative view of the world, not a contention with the world as it is.
02:41:05.000And this fundamental misunderstanding is why the whole debate was a catastrophe.
02:41:11.000Because the whole debate was about trying to find consensus.
02:41:14.000The whole debate was about trying to appease the other side, trying to come across as moderate, trying to minimize our opposition to the world as is.
02:41:24.000And Charlie Kirk, if he's articulating his worldview about Aquinas and Aristotle and Augustine and about Christianity and about life and traditional marriage, that worldview is completely opposed to the world as it is.
02:41:42.000The problem though is that Charlie Kirchner says those things because they're popular now.
02:41:54.000That's not really his real worldview and his talking points are not up to date.
02:41:58.000The talking points about race essentialism or racialism, the talking points about the welfare state, the talking points about all this stuff,
02:42:07.000It's not brought up to speed with the ideology he claims to now profess because this new this new line about America's our home and actually I think that everyone should put the nation before the individual and so on these are just things that are in vogue to say now but the scaffolding is still there from the old
02:42:29.000The guy doesn't even have the vocabulary.
02:42:30.000The guy doesn't have the understanding.
02:42:32.000It's obvious to defend his new worldview.
02:42:49.000He's doing a Tucker Carlson impression.
02:42:52.000The tone with which he asks the questions, the sort of self, you know, I guess the mocking, serious tone, you know, pay close enough attention.
02:43:03.000If you watch a Tucker Carlson monologue or maybe even a Tucker Carlson debate or an interview with somebody disagrees with and compare it to this performance, it's a bad Tucker Carlson imitation.
02:43:15.000And honestly, in terms of substance, that's what was wrong with all debate, but
02:43:22.000Before getting into that, I first want to say, broadly speaking, this is the problem with these debates, is conservatives don't go into them trying to create a compelling, alternative vision for America.
02:43:36.000And when I say alternative, I mean truly alternative.
02:43:41.000Radical and shocking but something that that is resonant appeal to to the liberal notion of empathy or equality or things like that appeal to the right-wing notion of excellence and discipline and maybe Marshall
02:44:01.000Discipline and greatness and these kinds of things.
02:44:12.000Instead, conservatives go in and they're trying to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of the enemy.
02:44:17.000Instead of going in and saying, I'm a conservative, I'm owning it, and I'm gonna make everyone in here a conservative, they come in and say, I'm gonna make these liberals think I'm not so bad.
02:44:28.000They don't go in and say, I'm gonna defend conservatives, I'm gonna prove I'm a conservative, and I'm gonna make the case for the conservative worldview, and I'm gonna own it.
02:44:38.000They go in there and they say, I want everyone to like me.
02:44:51.000My opponent because half the people watching are watching for my opponent and you don't win a debate like that if going back for the opposed side That's not even what they're trying to do.
02:45:01.000So certainly they're not going to be able to do that
02:45:05.000Then you have to get into tactics and on a purely tactical level it's a total failure because I'm sure if you had a stopwatch and you just measured how long people are talking, Vosh probably talked for three quarters of the whole debate.
02:46:17.000You know, when you are trying to make your case, this is just strategic, you want to use every moment that the camera is on you, every moment that the microphone, that you have the microphone, and every word that you say, every syllable out of your mouth, is advancing your worldview.
02:46:33.000It's framing the conversation from your perspective.
02:46:38.000You know, so even- that's why going on the defensive is a bad tactic.
02:46:42.000Because if you're going on the defensive, what are you doing?
02:46:45.000You're arguing the other person's worldview from their frame, but just- but just from a different- goes in and says, you know, well, I think you're like a fascist.
02:47:19.000That's why in presidential debates people get annoyed by this, but the moderator asks a question and the candidate will say, well that's a great question, but really I love America and this is my five-point plan.
02:48:01.000And so Charlie Kirk, not using time, not claiming time, passing his time off, using his time to answer rebuttals, using his time to ask the other person a question.
02:48:10.000What do you do when you ask the other person a question?
02:51:43.000But, it's that same establishment agenda, but they've repurposed it.
02:51:48.000Steve Bannon, and Ryan Grodusky, and Tucker Carlson, and Peter Thiel, and all these new populist think types, they've come along and they've got a bright... So we're gonna take it, we're gonna submerge it in a vat of Heritage Foundation Solution and Outcomes Multiracial Working Class Populism.
02:52:11.000And now we're going to have a think tank run by an Indian and a Chinese man talking about American greatness and Teddy Roosevelt.
02:52:17.000And where does American greatness come from?
02:52:39.000And that, I mean, ultimately, that is representative of what the whole right wing is doing.
02:52:45.000That's what all of populists think is trying to do.
02:52:50.000It's the same bullshit with the new code of pain.
02:52:52.000Let's try and repurpose this, you know, GDP worship.
02:52:57.000Let's try to repurpose what wasn't working before, what was a messaging deficit, what they think, and we'll just change the messaging.
02:53:05.000And so, it's the same race-blind, anti-racist, anti-woke-ism, rugged individualism, but we're just gonna call it working-class populism instead.
02:53:15.000Instead of telling, instead of saying blacks, lift yourselves up by your bootstraps, we're gonna say something like, you know, blacks are being hurt by illegal immigration too, and we need opportunity zones, or you know, some other thing like that.
02:53:45.000And they fundamentally agree on lots of this stuff.
02:53:54.000So it wasn't just the Tucker Carlson personal affect and style, it was the whole Tucker Carlson, you know, half loaf, you know, crumb from the whole loaf of what we actually believe.
02:55:02.000Which is repurposed economic bullshit, plus renewed hawkishness, this time against China rather than Russia, because Bannon's funded by a Chinese billionaire in exile, and because the right wing is still hawkish, right?
02:55:15.000They're still neocons, it's a new war.
02:55:16.000Not against Muslims, it's against Chinese!
02:56:12.000And so when he talks about, we need to educate people about the problems in America to create a class of activists to radically change America, that's a vision.
02:56:21.000We're going to create green energy and create... ...to the world and we're gonna, you know, all this kind of stuff.
02:56:29.000That's a real, that's a real vision that can possess people.
02:56:33.000Don't you think things are worth preserving?
02:57:16.000And what America is, they don't like, and they don't believe in it, and they are ashamed of it, and they're apologizing for it, and they don't want it to exist.
02:57:23.000You know, when Charlie Kirk says, well, Vermont abolished slavery in 1777, you know what, like, Harry Truman said about blacks?
02:58:11.000to the reason that they didn't put in place miscegenation laws or got rid of them miscegenation laws meaning outlying the marriage of blacks and whites it was because they thought that it was so so obviously wrong and so so the loss Abraham Lincoln who were according to this debate according to the myth
02:58:39.000Of the debater's worldviews, Abraham Lincoln allegedly fought the war to free the slaves.
02:58:44.000Abraham Lincoln said that if he could bring the Confederacy back into the Union without freeing one slave, he would do it.
02:58:50.000And Abraham Lincoln himself said that he never thought that blacks and whites should live on this continent with full legal equality, full legal and political equality.
02:58:57.000None of the founding fathers believed that.
02:58:59.000And none of the American presidents believed that.
02:59:02.000And no American political leaders believed that.
02:59:08.000So, and again, that's not to say that I feel that way, necessarily.
02:59:13.000But it is to say that, you know, this slavish defense of the liberal, this propositional nation idea... In everything but name, Charlie Kirk now says America's a home, but yet he still is making these arguments.
02:59:28.000...arguments that America is a creedal identity, that America is a creedal nation.
02:59:36.000Well, it's about... ...all of that is important, all of that is an achievement in political... ...philosophy of our people, of America, but that is an achievement of the people, the nation.
02:59:51.000It's emergent from the nation, it's not the nation itself.
02:59:55.000Of course, the nation precedes that, and the civilization preceded that nation.
03:00:00.000Where did all these colonists come from?
03:00:02.000You know, the Declaration came from the colonists, and the colonists came from where?
03:00:12.000And where did they get these ideas from?
03:00:13.000Well, the Magna Carta, and they got them from Rome, and they got them from Greece, and they got them from our civilization, from the mother of America, from our mother civilization.
03:00:24.000And none of these people actually think any of that is worth defending, because they are perfectly willing to define that down to melanin.
03:01:58.000And so how can you convince people to care about your civilization enough to die for it and work for it and expand it if you can't even affirm it?
03:02:27.000Which is really, I mean, Marxism succeeds liberalism.
03:02:32.000You know, it's like when Charlie Kirk says, well, we're not teaching 4th graders about Gramsci in the same way that we're not teaching 4th graders about Euclidean geometry, but we teach them math in the same way, you know, Charlie Kirk is a 4th grader talking about anti-racism and Vosch is the collegiate level.
03:02:53.000You get the liberal enlightenment and then you get the postmodern Marxism.
03:03:31.000Donald Trump came in and said, we're gonna take this country and literally make it great again.
03:03:37.000And, you know, when people made those meme edits of Donald Trump, they made videos of rocket ships taking off and and glimmering cities and, you know, what?
03:04:06.000Because Vaporware, which was during the 80s and 90s, were these wonder products that were advertised but never came out.
03:04:15.000And vaporwave music is a play on that.
03:04:17.000It's a play on the consumerism of the 80s and distorting it.
03:04:22.000And it's supposed to be reflective of the promise of the American dream, the promise of America, the wonder of America, but that never materialized.
03:07:22.000I'm not in favor of the secular religion of the state.
03:07:26.000Certainly not in favor of the ghettos and the concentration camps and things like that, obviously.
03:07:35.000But when you look at that, and it's important to consider this, that is a compelling reaction to communism and liberalism, which there is just no such other thing.
03:07:47.000The trajectory of Western civilization since the French Revolution has been towards liberalization, and ultimately towards communism.
03:07:56.000And it's been towards this suicide of our civilization, rationalized by liberalism, advanced by Marxism,
03:09:21.000And these things are, you know, it's irrespective of whether you think it's right or wrong, or the morality of it, or the consequences of all of that.
03:09:29.000We're talking strictly in terms of, you know, we're analyzing political efficacy.
03:10:26.000These peasants, we're gonna make them the dictator.
03:10:30.000And obviously, again, irrespective of what you think about that morally or how that turned out, it's about, you know, North Korea, China, Russia, there's, you can't argue with it.
03:10:43.000There's a compelling aesthetic, there's a compelling vision.
03:10:46.000This idea of fighting for the oppressed, against the colonial,
03:13:42.000all right but let's take a look at our super chats we'll see what you guys are saying I don't know if that makes any sense but it's just something I've been thinking about lately you know we're gonna need something that's really gonna animate people and a real alternative that that takes itself seriously you know Kuwaiti Groyper says it's an unknown year in
03:14:10.000Well, I mean, I would offend one or the other if I said one or the other.
03:14:22.000So, I don't want to offend one presumptuous if you think I'm even going to have a wedding night, you know, in the first place.
03:16:22.000Spinefish says, I failed to clarify this during your stream this morning, but I think your baseball telegram post was powerful because it was a picture of yummy food from your box seat.
03:16:32.000It had an energy reminiscent of the Trump picture with that big Philly cheesesteak on every time about those posts.
03:18:04.000Vitus as Kirk was clearly trying to ape your rhetorical style at the beginning of the debate But choked and fell back into his old debate tactic It's a lot of people want to be like you but don't come close.
03:18:14.000I don't think he was necessarily I didn't pick up on that Actually one of my favorites I guess I guess it was released but it's more of the
03:18:47.000I love when people send these superchats so it's supposed to be like... You're not even... I don't think you really even care what I think about that song.
03:18:54.000You just want to show me that you know what that song is.
03:24:35.000Last night says, well Nick, it's been a pleasure watching you, but after that suck fest, I'll be killing myself after watching Fat Gay Retard interviewed by Charlie Kirk.
03:25:32.000And when you really get into the weeds about correcting these historical wrongdoings, it belies the point that disparities will always remain.
03:25:41.000Panic King says you'd figure with all that Heritage Foundation money, Charlie Kirkwood would pay to have that asteroid-sized mole right off his face.
03:26:00.000Hi Tim, I just wanted to say thanks for hosting this debate between pee and poo, a peaceful dialectic between piss and poop, literacy rates in cities, and this nigga Vosh thinks we can teach Aristotle, yeah.
03:26:24.000No clue what they're talking about what are we gonna see you you hop on a debate with one of and then just we're just with one of one of them I'd love to I mean I love to debate with one of them Bosch Charlie Kirk or anybody really so I don't know
03:26:49.000You know, as long as we have a moderator, and he can't mute my microphone, I mean, I think that goes without saying, that's a debate, I'll debate him anywhere.
03:26:58.000But he's like, no, it has to be on my Discord server, and it has to be on my channel, and no moderator, and I get to mute you.
03:27:04.000Okay, so that's not really a debate you're interested in.
03:27:07.000But I'll debate Vosh, I'll debate Charlie Kirk, I'll debate any of them, you know.
03:28:28.000FireEyezes says, the YouTube channel Politically Provoked is trying to reach out to you about a big debate with you and Destiny.
03:28:33.000I know they've been very, very annoying about it, you know?
03:28:37.000Because they talk to my assistant and they email me and they talk to us and then they super chat us and you know, I don't know, I guess it's just not happening fast enough.
03:31:00.000something I tweeted that sounds familiar I see a fat man with poor facial hair walking out of Best Buy with the big TV feeling like a real king so that's a little trite that's a little but it's true
03:31:56.000Ben says, from one Catholic to another, I wanted to ask you, what future do you see for our church following the Reduction and its believers?
03:32:03.000Do you think we will die out, or do you think there will be a rebirth?
03:32:23.000I'm not really familiar with the prophecies, because there's different prophecies, and some say we're on our way out, and some say there's going to be another golden age of the church, you know, depending on, I think there's different outlooks on it.
03:33:09.000I appreciate when it's blood sports, when it's confrontation.
03:33:16.000But that was just that was miserable Overman says this debate which was really an interview for Vosh made me yearn for the old days where we got those intense Nick debates Really makes you appreciate those old streams.
03:33:35.000Yeah, I mean that was definitely an inflection point for sure.
03:33:40.000I mean that ended the balance of powers period of peace.
03:34:03.000And you could say that that was the last gasp of the conservative monarchical powers in Europe, the last gasp of the kingdoms, the triumph of republics and democracies and all of that, industrialization and so on.
03:34:18.000But really, I mean, that was underway for the last century.
03:34:22.000You know, for the last two centuries, really.
03:34:24.000So, um... So I don't know that that was necessarily the downfall.
03:34:32.000It was maybe the nail in the coffin, you might say.
03:34:55.000Tucker sees it in an analogous way as his family, with the state as the father, but he doesn't see the country as organic, as a community or a nation, because he thinks it's all about voting and buying and selling.
03:35:06.000So, you know, this working class populism, that's a point I'm trying to make.
03:35:11.000It's not a far cry from libertarianism.
03:35:14.000Because it's concerned with the same thing.
03:35:16.000You know, it's bound up in the same thing, which is producing and consuming.
03:35:20.000Because class is an economic identity, so it's an economic identitarianism.
03:35:25.000You know, in the same way that libertarianism is preoccupied with class and economic freedom and all of that.
03:35:32.000You know, populist nationalism is concerned with class and economic well-being and all of that.
03:35:38.000It's just more nationalistic, but it's ultimately the same thing.
03:35:44.000Big Nigga says going to Chicago tomorrow anything cool to do besides eat food and big metal bean?
03:35:50.000Yeah you should go on one of the boat tours if you want to go on a tour of Lake Michigan or the Chicago River those are really fun but it's a food city you can't you really can't skip out on the food the food is what you want to do you want to get an Italian beef sandwich you want to get a Chicago hot dog
03:36:12.000You can get the deep dish, but that's really kind of a tourist thing.
03:36:16.000But you should get pizza while you're here.
03:36:20.000And you really can't go wrong, but the Italian stuff, that's kind of, those are the winners.
03:36:25.000But yeah, I mean, you could go to Navy Pier.
03:39:17.000Kansas Zoomers says, The debate may have been terrible, but at least I got to spend the evening watching America First, my favorite internet program, starring Nick Fuentes, who is my favorite host and my friend.
03:40:17.000I was kind of non-confrontational towards teachers.
03:40:19.000I didn't want to get kicked out of school.
03:40:22.000I was a little bit when I was younger, like when I was 15.
03:40:27.000Over time, I just wanted to get along more.
03:40:31.000bombastic and confrontational I don't like to bring all the attention on me I don't like to be that guy you know that's like gonna fight with the teacher I mean I'll if I have something to say and in the appropriate forum I'll speak my mind you know but I'm not one of these guys that's like so autistic like any mention of politics turns into a blood sports you know what I mean because some people are like that I've never been like that
03:40:57.000I kind of, uh, if it's an appropriate time, I'll offer my opinion and we'll debate, but I'm, um, I'm not one of these people that's, like, looking, looking everywhere to, uh, to getting, uh, getting, uh, scrap.
03:41:37.000I literally can't tell you because I don't even know that they know.
03:41:40.000But, people literally watch my show, steal all my talking points, and then go and republish them, and then say, oh, you can't hang out with Nick Fuentes.
03:41:48.000But they all watch my show, and they all steal my stuff.
03:43:30.000This guy's gonna come in and... I'm an inse- But I'm relatable like you, too.
03:43:39.000yeah we we are not the same sorry you cannot relate you cannot relate i am an incel so you know congratulations on your date dude and he's gonna come up and say well oh it's boring and i don't even want to go on a date now okay nigga
03:44:31.000I'm so tired of the fakers, the fakes, and the frauds, and the lies from these fake cells.
03:44:39.000You know, Kai Klipsch's in the gym, and he's got all these muscles, and he's going on dates, and he comes in the live chat and says, hey, I went on a date, but you know, I'm probably going to break up.
03:50:20.000Anglo-Asian says are you planning on reacting to loner boxes the banning of Nick Fuentes?
03:50:25.000I wasn't planning on it because I don't know what that is someone brought it up earlier but that's still within the show so I haven't had time to think about it.
03:50:33.000Kai Clips is not calling myself an incel anymore don't want to be stolen valor.
03:50:38.000Well I appreciate I appreciate that you respect our sacrifice so for that reason you know you're definitely okay.