00:00:24.000You know, you've been in the news this week, it's been very exciting.
00:00:28.000And I've been watching your leadership of Identity Europa, and I know there was some.
00:00:34.000Turmoil in the beginning of last year, or almost exactly a year ago after Charlottesville.
00:00:40.000But I have to say, I think you've really turned things around because we've seen a lot of great activism this year.
00:00:46.000I think just a lot of great management in general.
00:00:48.000And I think to top it off, and this is the reason I wanted to get you on the show, this, your latest activism, the two demonstrations in New York City, a banner drop and the demonstration in front of the Mexican consulate.
00:01:57.000We kind of went over the game plan for Saturday and then everyone got some sleep.
00:02:01.000Saturday, we woke up and went through a dry run of the first demonstration, which was the consulate demonstration.
00:02:07.000So then everyone got in their cars, drove from the house into the city, and we arrived.
00:02:13.000We met up at a park in New York, in NYC, about 15 minutes away on foot from the consulate, and we all walked there.
00:02:23.000And pretty much as soon as we arrived there, we just went into formation.
00:02:27.000You know, we had one of our members create a bunch of, I think there were four feet tall letters, as you saw, that spelled out build the wall.
00:02:35.000And everyone holding one of these letters was wearing a construction uniform, right?
00:02:41.000Obviously, The things that we discuss and the things that the organization is concerned with are very serious, but I think that having a sense of humor and a sense of levity helps to not make you look like total cranks and weirdos, right?
00:02:54.000I think that's, you know, previous nationalist movements in America and elsewhere have definitely suffered from, you know, looking like cranks and weirdos.
00:03:00.000And honestly, many nationalist things going on in America now totally have that issue.
00:03:06.000But anyway, so we arrived there, we had a bunch of people holding up, you know, these letters that said, build the wall.
00:03:12.000And we just proceeded to go into about a five to 10 minute demonstration.
00:03:17.000I wasn't really keeping track of the time, but I gave a speech.
00:03:20.000We had three different chants that we did throughout the speech.
00:03:22.000The first one was Make America Great Again.
00:03:36.000I know that's something that you're pretty big on, too.
00:03:38.000Since I've taken over, I've wanted to take us, I've wanted us to be, Identitarian, but I also want us to be an identitarian in a way that is palatable to your average white Trump supporter, because that's kind of the demographic that we're going for.
00:03:51.000So the demonstration was really high energy.
00:03:53.000Just being there was doing any kind of activism when you have 50 to 60 people shouting these chants.
00:04:04.000We had one really low energy guy holding up a Stalin book, telling, you know, we talked to him afterwards and he told me that Bernie's still going to win.
00:05:39.000But when you have a crowd of like 60 to 70 people and it's like 90% male, right?
00:05:44.000And everyone's fit, people wearing Trump hats, that really sticks out.
00:05:47.000And by the way, being in New York City, I stayed a few extra days.
00:05:51.000We stayed in Brooklyn, went into the city just to kind of see the sights.
00:05:54.000We had five people in that group and we still stuck out.
00:05:57.000We were just kind of at the point where if there was like a group of white people in one of these major cities, it's people are just like, You know, you don't see it.
00:06:16.000And yeah, it's, you know, the simulation managers decided to throw one at us.
00:06:21.000But we, you know, my guys are trained enough to not say anything stupid.
00:06:24.000I'm sure we could have gotten into some dumb altercation.
00:06:27.000The way I was talking to IE members afterwards is that, you know, there are all of these black Israelites compilations on YouTube where they like get into fights with people and, And it's just, and I just wanted to make sure we didn't end up in one of these compilations.
00:06:40.000Um, we didn't, they just ignored us as we walked by, so we ended up going up there.
00:06:44.000Um, we don't like to any demonstrations unless we're like right by a road for obvious reasons.
00:06:52.000It just makes it look cool, it kind of makes it look a bit more theatrical as well.
00:06:56.000And um, the place at Fort Trine Park where we dropped the banner was uh separated by a row of bushes, so the people that were at the park saw us walk behind the bushes and they kind of knew something was going on.
00:07:08.000We had a few people heckle us, nothing really that we were concerned with.
00:07:11.000But I was told by people who we had a few of our guys on the other side of the bushes just to keep track of what was going on, seeing if anyone was going to try to do something stupid.
00:07:21.000And they apparently, when we detonated these smoke flares, and they were green smoke flares, people on the other side thought that we were detonating poison gas.
00:07:29.000They thought it was a terrorist attack.
00:07:31.000They thought we were getting gas, but obviously we weren't.
00:07:47.000Yeah, they said if you want to, and if you decide to do this again, just give us a call and we'll come by and make sure no one messes with you.
00:07:58.000Identity Europa, we're identitarians, so that's obviously a bit more controversial than, say, if we were just a normal Patriot or Magapete group or whatever.
00:08:07.000So perhaps if they really knew what we were about, they would maybe not agree as much.
00:08:11.000But the point being is that if you present well and just kind of toss away some of the more esoteric, weird ideas that.
00:08:19.000The average right wing conservative person can get behind it at least to some extent.
00:08:23.000And at the very least, they understand that you're not these boogeymen that the SPLC and the ADL would like people to believe us to be.
00:08:32.000But yeah, we had one minor issue with the banner drop, and that was that it got hooked on a tree in the corner.
00:08:40.000I don't think the demonstration would have had any different effect if that minor thing hadn't happened.
00:08:46.000But we're perfectionists and we always want to make sure that everything goes perfectly.
00:08:51.000And it rarely does, but it's always a learning process.
00:08:55.000So that's a pretty good overview of everything that happened.
00:08:58.000I think people are probably mostly aware of the fact that it was condemned by a city, a New York City council member.
00:09:07.000It was condemned by, I believe, a congressman too.
00:09:10.000And then it was condemned by the Mexican government.
00:09:12.000So if these are the people that we are irritating and annoying with our activism, then I think we're definitely doing something right.
00:09:20.000Well, and everything about that, I think, is.
00:09:23.000So refreshing to hear because I think what we saw with a lot of the activism last year and some of the initial phases after the Trump election was people making it harder on themselves, people making and erecting obstacles that didn't need to exist between us and your average right wing conservative white person, erecting obstacles that shouldn't exist with the police or getting in fights with people or bringing on people who are unruly.
00:09:52.000And so I'm just listening to that story, and just every step of the way, I'm thinking this is so great to hear because that's the way it's supposed to be done.
00:10:00.000I mean, for starters, I think what I really like is when you talk about having it be a little bit tongue in cheek with the construction uniforms and you got these fun big letters.
00:10:11.000That's really great because, I mean, that's exactly what Donald Trump used to carry a lot of young people over to the right wing movement.
00:10:18.000I mean, how many of us got involved because of funny things we saw on the internet or funny people we like on YouTube or something like that?
00:10:26.000And so it's really great to hear just every step of the way.
00:10:29.000There's obviously a thought process here on your part that you are thinking through how can we craft a message in such a way and how can we present ourselves and even operationally?
00:10:42.000What steps can we take to make sure that these demonstrations are having an effect and they go off without a hitch?
00:10:48.000And so it's just really great because I saw that the letter from the Mexican embassy or rather from the Mexican government and the condemnations by the politicians.
00:10:57.000And I think what you've shown is that you can have.
00:11:01.000A demonstration that is controversial and it attracts media attention and it gets your name out there, but at the same time, that doesn't get you completely ruined and blacklisted.
00:11:11.000And maybe it already does because it's Trump in New York City, but it's not something that would turn away a normal conservative person.
00:11:19.000Like you said, you got the MAGA moms, you got the Uber driver who I am hoping that's not Patrick Little, right?
00:11:26.000We got to see if he was in New York City that day, but I mean, you're getting regular passerby.
00:11:30.000He's off jaywalking somewhere else, I think.
00:11:33.000That's, yeah, he was probably jaywalking that day in Skokie, right?
00:11:36.000So, but I mean, really, I love what you guys are doing because it's so.
00:11:41.000I really think you, in particular, and I think many people horizontally across this movement over the year or the last year have learned the lessons of the shortcomings and maybe some of the not so good things and are putting it to good use.
00:11:56.000I mean, do you feel like what you're doing in these demonstrations has had a bigger effect?
00:12:02.000Do you feel like the extra steps and the extra thought, do you feel like that is going farther?
00:12:09.000I think that the more planning, the better, generally.
00:12:12.000And I think that we learned quite a bit in 2017.
00:12:15.000I think that most people, we do have the occasional person that comes over from the left and has a left wing activist background, but doing right wing activism, doing nationalist activism is an entirely different game.
00:12:28.000So I think a lot of the chaos that defined 2017, particularly with the Charlottesville rally, was the result of us being kind of green, of the alt right being a little green when it comes to activism.
00:12:42.000And obviously, ultimately, Charlottesville, what happened there is the blame lays on the feet of the city council, the police department, and so forth.
00:12:52.000But all I'm just saying is, in general, I think we have learned as an organization quite a bit.
00:12:57.000We've learned from our own failures, our own successes, and also the failures and successes of others as well.
00:13:03.000And I think the people that want to keep replicating kind of the Charlottesville model, which is you say, hey, Antifa, we're going to be at this park in three months.
00:13:13.000And you tell your guys to bring shields, so forth.
00:13:15.000We didn't tell our people to bring shields at Charlottesville, but some of these other groups might be doing that.
00:13:20.000And you just get ready for a brawl, right?
00:13:24.000Well, you go out there, you might get your head cracked open by some guy with a hammer.
00:13:29.000And what are you going to do when you have to call out of work?
00:13:32.000People have gotten doxxed for things like this.
00:13:35.000But also at the same time, if you end up beating up that guy who's this lunatic that's waving a hammer at you when you're just trying to do a demonstration, well, If that person's a minority, then all of a sudden you're going to be, you know, the media is going to put the obvious spin on it.
00:13:47.000There are people who attended Charlottesville who are, I think they've been convicted and they're going to be in prison for like 10 years for beating up DeAndre Harris, who was the obvious aggressor there.
00:13:57.000So, I mean, if people want to charge into artillery fire and talk themselves up like they're really heroic for doing it, that's fine.
00:14:04.000But I think what we've seen is that that is not a sustainable way to do things.
00:14:09.000And also, we're not, you know, we're not X number of fistfights away from like the ethnostate or defeating globalism.
00:14:15.000So we just have to, I think, in a Senate Europa, we've reassessed what we want to accomplish, how we want to get there.
00:14:25.000And I think everything that you're seeing now is a result of that.
00:14:29.000Well, and that's so true about the sustainability.
00:14:32.000Those are some of my biggest criticisms right after the rally, we saw Charlottesville, and I agree with you.
00:14:38.000It's an important distinction to make because we were both there, and obviously IE was there.
00:14:44.000And we were perhaps more of the benign elements, I'm sure, than some of the others.
00:14:50.000Certainly, some people that may or may not have been driving at that event.
00:14:54.000I think it's an important distinction to make that that was ultimately at the feet of the city council.
00:15:00.000And that was a point that I've been making since then because people to this day will hang that over my head as you went to that Nazi rally or whatever.
00:15:08.000But it is so important to maintain we had a right to be there, we had our permit.
00:15:12.000Now, by the same token, we have to acknowledge that even though it was technically the fault of the city council and they were abridging our constitutional rights.
00:15:22.000Is it the best tactic, even if it is legal, even if it is permissible, that we announce a time and a location for people to meet us there and to prepare?
00:15:32.000And I think that's why a lot of IE's activism has been so effective.
00:15:36.000Groups like your own, groups like Generation Identity, where it's smaller, it's controlled, it's members only, they're vetted, it's a small group that carries out the function, it's clean, and then they get out.
00:15:50.000And obviously, your story about the New York City banner drop is, I think, a great illustration of that, where it was obviously not the best situation, where you run into a black Israelite demonstration and you run into people that are calling the police and everything.
00:16:06.000I mean, because people are trained and vetted and they handle themselves, it doesn't escalate into anything more than it is.
00:16:12.000It doesn't take away from what should be a great event, which is the banner drop.
00:16:16.000And I think that's why I was so successful.
00:16:18.000And so you guys have been doing great stuff this year.
00:16:20.000And then I guess my next question would be where do you hope to see Identity Europa in a year or in five years?
00:16:28.000What do you hope to see as the role for this organization moving forward?
00:16:31.000Because I know a big division, perhaps, in the leadership earlier in the year was exactly about this question.
00:16:38.000Is it going to be the vanguard for certain people?
00:16:41.000Are they going to be the security force for a college event or are they going to be a political force?
00:16:46.000I mean, what do you envision as the role moving forward?
00:16:52.000Well, I can say with some certainty that we're not going to be the security force for anyone outside of IE by any means.
00:16:59.000We're also not going to be organizing people to go out and get into fights.
00:17:04.000And that's actually never been part of our model.
00:17:07.000Every time we've gone to a rally and things have gone.
00:17:09.000It's been because of Antifa and it's been because of the establishment.
00:17:23.000And, but it's because we did it in DC and the DC cops don't mess around, right?
00:17:27.000So I think that, you know, there is the potential for doing rallies that you plan and you announce in advance, although you just have to be very careful where you do them.
00:17:36.000And also, you run into the same issue of, okay, you know, even if the cops do their job and keep leftists, Communist terrorists away from us, then you're still going to have to worry about the kind of people that show up, right?
00:17:47.000You know, people come to these views for the right reasons, the wrong reasons, and quite often a combination of the two.
00:17:53.000And the people that come to, you know, far right views, or I don't even consider identitarianism far right, people that come to nationalism and identitarianism for the wrong reasons, they end up not being the kind of people you want to be associated with.
00:18:06.000And so that the public rally model still has that weakness.
00:18:09.000But back to where I see us going, I would like to, I mean, we just want to grow.
00:18:15.000Financially, we want to grow in terms of people that we have in the organization.
00:18:19.000I'd like to see us double, triple our membership.
00:18:22.000And I'd like to see us grow in complexity too.
00:18:25.000There's a lot of the progress that we've made that has occurred behind the scenes, right?
00:18:30.000So when you see these bigger actions and you see us doing flash demonstrations with more people than we've ever done, and it's worth noting, we had about 70 people for the banner drop.
00:18:39.000When we're doing demonstrations back with Richard Spencer, with kind of the broader alt right during the second half of 2017, We were getting like 20 to 30 people.
00:18:49.000So the fact that we're able to get far more than we ever did back then, only with people in the organization, is definitely a very good sign.
00:18:56.000So I'd like to see us be able to do like 300 person flash demonstrations, right?
00:19:01.000Wouldn't it be amazing if we just showed up somewhere and did a 10, 20 minute demonstration with 300 people and then left?
00:19:08.000Because even just having 70 people together, that's a pretty sizable crowd.
00:19:12.000But I want us to go to the point where we can have, we can even just do rallies, but we don't need to announce them ahead of time because that totally cuts out Antifa.
00:19:21.000They always complain that they're not invited to these things.
00:19:25.000But there's no need to involve them, right?
00:19:27.000I think the number of people who are willing to go out there and just get rocks thrown at them while the leader, who it's me or someone else, is whisked around with private security to safety, the number of people that are willing to be useful idiots and get rocks thrown at their head are, I think that group of people has definitely dwindled in recent months.
00:19:47.000But yeah, I mean, to answer your question, to summarize, we just want to grow.
00:19:57.000We already have a few unofficial ones, but we're looking at getting a headquarters somewhere in the DC area here because that's kind of the greater area where I live.
00:20:05.000And, you know, we want to have places to hang out in every city.
00:20:15.000And I think it is a very useful infrastructure to have because nationalists, identitarians, whatever label you go by, I mean, we have nothing, right, in terms of.
00:20:28.000It's been two years where we've seen a very flourishing of this dissident right movement, a very viable opposition to establishment politics.
00:20:37.000And I think our biggest obstacle right now, in the way of making actual institutional progress or in the ways of laws or politics, is the fact that we're on the outside looking in, whether it's Young Americans for Liberty or these college groups or the campus Republicans or anything like that.
00:20:54.000And not like it's strictly a juvenile thing, but across the board for the institutions, we're on the outside looking.
00:21:01.000And we rely on the system, we rely on the establishment for that kind of organizing power.
00:21:06.000So, that we have an organization like IE, and should they grow, and I hope that they grow, I hope that they grow very much in the next couple of years.
00:21:13.000Should we have a good number of people in every state that we can rely on for a rally or, you know, for whatever else?
00:21:20.000I think it's a great idea that it's just a fraternal organization where there's membership, where people can feel like they belong and talk about politics and things like that.
00:21:29.000I think there's literally nothing bad about that, there's no downside to that.
00:21:35.000And this is something I talk about on the show all the time think about political activism in your state.
00:21:40.000If instead of going to these dangerous fight rallies where you're bringing a shield and you're wearing a helmet and these goofy things, if instead we had a real infrastructure of 50, let's just say 50 people in every state, that's a lot of people, but let's say 10 or 15 or 50 people in every state, that kind of organization, that kind of infrastructure can really get you a long way.
00:22:05.000In terms of just about any kind of organizing.
00:22:07.000So I think that's really great for Identity Europa.
00:22:10.000Now, another question I think a lot of people have, not just myself, but I think a lot of people would talk about is my favorite question, the optics question.
00:22:19.000Now, you guys are very good on optics in terms of a lot of the rallies.
00:22:24.000I see the American flag, and like you said, very Trumpian in terms of the slogans and the look.
00:22:29.000But a lot of people have asked, and I'm one of them, admittedly, and I hope this doesn't come across as like a criticism or, you know, I'm not trying to be nasty or butt in there.
00:22:38.000I already knew what you were going to ask.
00:22:41.000People ask about the color scheme, the logo, and Europa.
00:22:45.000People look at your organization and they say, well, you know, will that really be relatable to Americans if it's this teal and white, if it's this triangle logo and it's Europa instead of America or something?
00:24:33.000But, you know, at the same time, I like pushing the European heritage angle because if you're in an organization that is only for white people, which Identity Europa is and will forever remain, then if it's framing it as a European heritage group, you know, it allows you to bypass some of the programming.
00:24:49.000I've gone around college campuses talking, just talking to, you know, pulling people aside, talking to them.
00:24:54.000And, you know, You know, if you ask them something like, how would you feel about a whites only organization on campus?
00:24:59.000They're just kind of like, ah, that sounds like, you know, Nazi stuff or whatever.
00:25:03.000But you ask them, like, yeah, would you feel about, you know, a European heritage organization?
00:25:07.000I think it kind of, when you talk about European heritage, people of European heritage, sure, some Americans might, that might not do anything for them, but it does allow you to bypass some of the conditioning, some of the roadblocks that come up when you try to talk to people about issues like identity and race.
00:25:22.000But on the other side of things, yeah, again, if we had a more American aesthetic, then perhaps it would make it easier for the average white American who is.
00:25:29.000A civic nationalist, but has some doubts about certain things and could be convinced to come to our side.
00:25:35.000Maybe having a more American aesthetic could convince them.
00:25:39.000I will say, I don't want to say too much here, but we have talked about these things, the highest levels of IE leadership.
00:25:46.000And I can't say anything right now, but changing the name would be a massive thing.
00:25:56.000It would require changing so many things.
00:26:11.000So it's something that we're probably going to continue considering in the future, and I totally understand where people are coming from.
00:26:18.000But what's still though is that I think the biggest reason, the biggest argument that I see for changing the aesthetics and changing the name is to have a broader appeal to the average white person, right?
00:26:33.000The average American is what I hear so often.
00:26:36.000Well, I think I kind of already went over why I think it's useful to have an American aesthetic, right?
00:26:46.000I don't think it's aesthetics that is the main reason why Joe Sixpack and the average guy on the street, the average Trump supporter, doesn't want to or isn't interested in Identity Europa.
00:26:55.000I think when you look at what these people actually believe in, they believe the Democrats are the real racists.
00:27:00.000They believe that, you know, they believe all of the Janesh D'Souza stuff.
00:27:05.000They're not even aware of how races vote by demographics.
00:27:22.000So ultimately, there is an ideological difference.
00:27:26.000And I think that once people come to identitarian consciousness, things like the color scheme, the logo, you know, what angle the dragon's eyes at and the name, I think those things matter a little less.
00:27:37.000But insofar as changing the name and changing the aesthetics would help people, would facilitate that ideological shift, then I would be in support.
00:28:06.000I think that's a smart answer because, like I said, initially, I was all for it.
00:28:12.000But by the same token, I get where you're coming from in the sense that calling it Identity Europa and having it be a little bit different.
00:28:20.000Have kind of a different flavor, I think is important to distinguish from the Boomer Con, like you said, the Dinesh D'Souza type of thing, because you're right.
00:28:31.000You know, if you did totally co opt the Trumpian flag, it's hard to say that in some way you wouldn't accidentally co opt a large part of the message and who you would attract with that kind of thing.
00:28:43.000And I think that is an argument in favor of remaining Europa.
00:28:47.000Now, the color scheme, the logo, I think, like you said, these things are a little bit more.
00:28:52.000They're a little bit less solid as the name because, you know, it's the name of the organization.
00:28:57.000But I do get where you're coming from.
00:28:58.000And the European heritage is a great angle as well because at the end of the day, it is a whites only organization.
00:29:05.000Now, if you lead with that, like you said on a college campus or with anybody, the first thought is racist.
00:29:11.000You know, if it's whites only, anything for white people is wrong.
00:30:40.000And so, in order to do that, he talks about Andrew Jackson and natural rights.
00:30:45.000And basically, he implies that, well, because Richard Spencer believes that rights come from the state instead of God, and because Richard Spencer likes Andrew Jackson and James Polk, who are both Democrats, well, that means that Spencer's a Democrat.
00:31:29.000I think the thing is, I mean, he's correct to point out that Spencer and others are not Republicans, really.
00:31:37.000I mean, Richard has criticized free speech and has supported.
00:31:41.000Now, regardless of what you think of those things, those aren't in line with the modern American understanding of conservatism and the values and ideals of the Republican Party.
00:31:52.000But I mean, to say that just because someone leans left economically means that they are overall a leftist, it's just a bit odd.
00:32:01.000And the issue is that I think as time has gone on, Republicans and conservatives have really just shifted their focus to economics.
00:32:11.000Culturally and socially, to the left, that they've just really just tunneled down on what the left will allow them to have, right?
00:32:18.000You won't lose your job for being a free market guy, at least not yet, but you will lose your job for being a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe in many situations.
00:32:27.000So I think the left has really, really pushed the greatest taboos are on the social side of things, right?
00:32:33.000To be socially conservative is far more taboo than to be economically a fiscal conservative, right?
00:32:40.000So I think that's why you have the TPUSA stuff, and that's why you see people.
00:32:43.000Flock to it because it's like, okay, this is our little thing that we are allowed to have.
00:32:49.000But yeah, I mean, Dinesh D'Souza wants to blame, you know, it's like they call the communist fascist, right?
00:32:57.000That's another way to blame, to shift the blame onto the right, in a sense.
00:33:03.000And it's also worth pointing out that the first classical liberals, right, the people that champion, that originally championed the very same enlightenment based ideas that Dinesh D'Souza and other modern Republicans and conservatives.
00:33:16.000Love, those people were the first leftists.
00:33:19.000During the French Revolution, the National Assembly, the people who supported the king sat on the right of the National Assembly.
00:33:28.000These were the reactionaries, the monarchists, and on the left side of the National Assembly were the more classical liberals, the people who, again, supported Enlightenment era thought.
00:33:37.000And that includes free markets, individualism, all of these things.
00:33:42.000So they sat on the left, they were the first leftists.
00:33:45.000So Dinesh D'Souza believes all the same things.
00:34:08.000I mean, it's funny you say that because I know a lot of people who say exactly the same thing about Dinesh being like people having this begrudging respect for him because he's.
00:34:20.000Found a great way to swindle boomers out of their money, you know, getting them to show up to these ridiculous movies where.
00:34:55.000But what really set me off, and I'm not obviously a huge defender of Spencer, we don't agree on many things.
00:35:03.000And I know you guys have kind of a rift, but I will say the one nuanced take that I have to make, and I think this is something that you would probably relate to as an American nationalist, is this takedown of great heroes like Jackson or Kennedy or Polk or people like that because they're Democrats.
00:35:23.000And that's the one thing that I have to hold off on.
00:35:25.000Because I understand the argument that, well, Democrats are the real racist is rhetorically useful.
00:35:31.000It might be totally ahistorical, it might not be totally true.
00:35:35.000However, If we're trying to convince people to vote in elections, we're trying to convince people not to be Democrats or liberals or whatever, it can be a useful argument simply on practical, pragmatic grounds.
00:35:46.000But I feel like there is a limiting principle to that, which says that at a certain point, you're not winning anymore.
00:35:52.000At a certain point, you're convincing people to become.
00:35:57.000You know, if you have to convince people to reject their history, hate their ancestors, hate their heroes, so that they vote Republican, you know, can we say that that constitutes a win?
00:36:08.000And I've talked to many alt light figures about this, or several of them, where they say, you know, oh, we love the Dinesh stuff.
00:36:16.000We love to call them Nazis and all that.
00:36:19.000And I don't think they understand that detail, that it is important that Americans can look back on their history.
00:36:26.000And when we can love a character like Andrew Jackson, who fought the bankers and all the rest, I mean, Donald Trump's got a portrait of Jackson hanging above his office.
00:36:35.000Do you feel the same way about American heritage and history and heroes and all that?
00:36:40.000Or do you think that, I mean, I probably know what you're going to answer, but I mean, what do you think about that rhetorical message of saying that, well, Jackson's a Democrat?
00:37:08.000He does far less of that than, you know, these all light people, which they should really take note of.
00:37:13.000And I'd wager he's, he probably looks at some of this alt light, you know, gems of the real racist stuff, and is just, you know, finds it goofy, honestly.
00:37:21.000But yeah, no, I, there's, I don't see there's much, I don't think there's too much strategic merit.
00:37:27.000I think that the Republicans and conservatives should stop worrying so much about being called racists, stop shaping these, you know, grand political strategies around, around just proving how not racist they are.
00:38:09.000It's time to move things one step further.
00:38:11.000It's time to stop letting people like Dinesh D'Souza, I mean, we've got a guy named Dinesh D'Souza in America shitting on our history.
00:38:19.000But, you know, at the same time, without sounding crude, if you're someone like Dinesh D'Souza, do you really look back at all of these white people, these great white men, and really feel a sense of camaraderie?
00:38:29.000I mean, if I raised my kid in India, he's probably not going to look back at all these great Indian rulers and be like, that's just, you know, that's, you know, my, it's like the meme, my ancestor.
00:38:40.000These aren't, these aren't your people.
00:38:41.000And it's, you're just kind of a guest here.
00:38:43.000So I don't have much respect for people that are going to shit on our, our history, part of my language for, Just so that they can avoid being called racists.
00:38:53.000And that's a great point that you make about Republican politics effectively being constructed to evade or dodge that word, you know, the political correctness type stuff.
00:39:03.000And I think that's really when people start to come around to the truth.
00:39:06.000I think the moment that people reject this idea that we have to concern ourselves with appearing not racist and not being racist and we allow the left to dominate the paradigm in terms of how we think about politics, I think the moment people reject that, they start to come around to our way of thinking.
00:39:24.000Because once you put aside that notion that, Identity politics is horrible.
00:39:29.000And if we could just all live together in happiness and harmony, like buying cheap products at Walmart, and it doesn't matter what language or race or religion or any of that stuff, I think once you get past that kind of thinking, you're already halfway there.
00:39:43.000And that's the biggest problem because we looked at people, and funny enough, too, it didn't even win before.
00:39:49.000You know, I think they like to think of it as, well, that's just what you have to do to get by as a Republican.
00:39:55.000And we've seen that that's obviously not the case.
00:39:58.000We've seen that the Republicans that have been most concerned about that kind of thing are the ones that lose.
00:40:03.000People like John McCain, people like Mitt Romney.
00:40:06.000Donald Trump, was he so concerned about appearing not racist?
00:40:10.000I mean, people would ask him, Are you a racist?
00:40:12.000And they'd say, I'm just not going to take that question.
00:40:15.000And he was able to win a great landslide.
00:40:19.000So I think you're right on the money on that one.
00:40:21.000And Dinesh, like we say, it's good that he's making money, but probably not the best thing for our cause.
00:40:27.000I think it's time for white people to move beyond the guilt.
00:40:29.000Finally, resolve that and say, okay, we probably have some kind of stake in the future of this country if we have ancestors going 100, 200, 300 years back.
00:40:39.000And I guess that leads me to a broader question.
00:40:42.000This is something I ask a lot of people who come on the show, Jared Taylor, the thought leaders in the dissident right who are a big part of the election, which is what do you think of Donald Trump and the work he's been doing so far?
00:40:54.000Because I know this question probably would have been different for a lot of people maybe five or six months ago when it was just tax reform.
00:41:02.000And it was DACA negotiations and the Syria strikes.
00:41:05.000But, I mean, here we are all the way out in July, or rather August now.
00:41:10.000What do you think has been Trump's so far?
00:41:33.000In the whole campaign was such a profoundly transformative process for so many people.
00:41:39.000And, you know, we just felt like the energy was rising and rising and rising.
00:41:43.000And, you know, there were people that literally thought Trump was going to build the wall on day one.
00:41:46.000There weren't going to be any illegals in America by, like, you know, the first month or something.
00:41:56.000Highly unrealistic expectations, or at least they were very impatient, right?
00:42:00.000Now, there's an argument to be made that we should hold Trump accountable, whatever.
00:42:03.000And I'm obviously have no intention of.
00:42:07.000Defending things that I think he does poorly, but we do have to put it in perspective.
00:42:12.000There is still time, he's done quite a bit now, and there's still plenty of time for him to accomplish other major policy goals before the end of his first term.
00:42:20.000I think we are going to see significant construction on the border wall done before the 2020 election.
00:42:27.000Ryan Dawson theorized that, he was the first one I heard throughout this idea, that Trump's going to wait till the end of his first term and then just have it fresh to do the wall and then just have it fresh.
00:42:36.000So it's fresh on everyone's minds so we can really use that to run on.
00:42:40.000I would really be surprised if he's just not going to make any significant progress on the wall by the time he's running for reelection.
00:42:48.000You know, the guy's definitely very strategic.
00:42:52.000So, I can't imagine that he's just going to like, you know, have that be like, oh, we're going to build the wall the next election, you know, the next term, right?
00:42:59.000But yeah, there are things that he's done well and there are things that I disagree with.
00:43:04.000I think the things that I disagree with have to do with some of his foreign policy.
00:43:08.000He's a little more, a little too, you know, pro Israel than I'd like.
00:43:12.000But at the same time, I understand that you can't, you know, you're not, realistically, you're not going to upset some of these geopolitical frameworks overnight.
00:43:22.000And he is nevertheless working towards that, I think, just.
00:43:26.000The stuff he's done in North Korea is quite good.
00:43:29.000And while he has made concessions to Israel, I think that under virtually any other president, we would have seen far more concessions to Israel.
00:43:36.000You might have even seen regime change in Syria.
00:43:39.000So, yeah, I'm feeling good about the Trump administration.
00:43:43.000Whether or not he, I do think that he needs to continue making progress.
00:43:47.000If he just accomplishes what he's done now, and these are all of his accomplishments thus far are his main accomplishments by the end of his first term, I think that's going to be a problem.
00:43:56.000But there's definitely, what do we have, like two years before?
00:43:59.000You know, the end of his term, I think that he's going to be in a far better position then.
00:44:03.000And I think we're going to look back on some of these periods in his first term when things weren't going well, when, you know, we thought he was cucking, when he thought he was going to, I don't know, some people thought that every time, you know, think that every time he does something, it's World War III is right around the corner.
00:44:18.000You've done a good job of, you know, dispelling those, that kind of fear mongering that some people like to do.
00:44:36.000And I think that's, I think it's important to acknowledge that he's basically demonstrated that he is competent, strategic, and that he is still on our side.
00:44:46.000And I think that was the biggest hurdle over the course of a year.
00:44:50.000And I think a lot of the evolution of people on Trump has reflected that in the sense that when it was April 2017 and there was a serious strike, at that point when people doubted Trump, I didn't doubt.
00:45:03.000Because I looked at everything that was going on, but when people looked at that and there was a knee jerk, I think it was more understandable at that point because he was just in, it was three months into the presidency, and there he was bombing Syria.
00:45:15.000But I think what people have seen over the course of the last two years is like you said, if we are patient, if we look at all the details, if we wait for things to resolve themselves, just about in every case, we come out ahead.
00:45:28.000We looked at the first serious strike and it didn't turn into anything.
00:45:32.000We looked at the second serious strike and And by the time the bombs stopped dropping, we found out no civilian casualties, didn't make any strategic difference on the ground.
00:45:40.000If it did, it actually consolidated support behind Assad among the Syrian people.
00:45:45.000It turned out that it was nothing more than a couple of buildings and no further intervention.
00:45:49.000And you see this with DACA, you saw this in many cases.
00:45:53.000And so I think that's been, I think, a very positive development that people like myself and others have been vindicated on these issues because, and tell me what you think about this.
00:46:03.000I see a lot of the black pillars out there.
00:46:05.000And we call them black pillars, but you said people who think the sky is falling, the hysteria every time he does something wrong.
00:46:13.000I see that as not just like a subtle disagreement or like, I'm right, I'm right, you're wrong, you're wrong.
00:46:19.000But I see that as something that is demoralizing to our side.
00:46:23.000Because to me, and particularly in my development, I'm a younger guy, I'm 19.
00:46:28.000Donald Trump was so important to me in my development because he's the reason I'm even on this side.
00:46:32.000If it weren't for Trump, I'd be a Milton Friedman, I'd be an Israel of Cassie Dillon right now, writing for the Daily Wire.
00:46:39.000You know, and if it weren't for Trump. I'd run with Will Nardi or something.
00:46:56.000And what he represents, not just for the future in 100 years, but for the viability of politics, to me, can't be understated in terms of the value for people.
00:47:05.000And do you agree with that assessment that the blackpilling is more than just holding accountable or that kind of thing?
00:47:12.000Because this is something I've debated with people like Alex Władysławski, among others.
00:47:17.000And I get what they're saying about the accountability.
00:47:19.000Where would you fall in that gradient along accountability versus maintaining the myth, so to speak?
00:47:28.000Huh, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.
00:47:30.000If I see Trump doing something I dislike, I'm going to be open about it and freely discuss it.
00:47:36.000Now, I don't think Trump's like reading my Twitter account.
00:47:39.000So I don't think that we should just totally vent our negativity and say that we're totally done with Trump every time he does something we dislike because that's going to hold him accountable.
00:47:48.000I just think we need to keep consistency within.
00:47:51.000You know, our movement, or perhaps our, our, our, you know, multiple smaller movements that are nevertheless similar.
00:47:58.000But we need to, it's good to remember what we're about, right?
00:48:02.000So if Trump is, Trump goes out there and says he decides to invade Syria, we need to be, obviously, so many people would be up in arms.
00:48:07.000But the reason to do that, it's part of it would be to maybe send a message to Trump, but also to remind everyone else and maybe people who are a little less info, people a little newer to things coming to us that, hey, this isn't something that we're about.
00:48:18.000Trump might be doing this, we don't support it.
00:48:20.000And it's a good way of maintaining our own consistency and our own values, right?
00:48:23.000Because we don't want to turn into Bill Mitchell's.
00:48:25.000We don't want to just cheerlead Trump when he does everything stupid, when he does something stupid.
00:48:30.000I know that people accuse you of being Bill Mitchell quite often.
00:48:34.000I think you're more than used to it by now.
00:48:36.000But I mean, I have seen you call out Trump on a number of occasions, not as much as others, but that's okay.
00:48:42.000Obviously, there's going to be some disagreements over what's bad, what we need to wait on, and so forth.
00:48:47.000But I think to answer your question, I think I'm somewhere in the middle.
00:48:52.000I think that on the subject of blackpilling, I think there is an issue.
00:48:58.000Or at least for a time, wanted people to turn against Trump so that, like, you know, the alt right or whatever could be, you know, more of a monolithic thing, I guess.
00:49:07.000But we have to just keep in mind that when there's a big difference between saying Trump is doing this and I think it's bad for this reason versus saying, oh, Trump is done, Trump is cucking, Trump is a Zio shill or something like that.
00:49:20.000I mean, that's not really constructive.
00:49:22.000And you can just tell by, like, the level of emotion behind it.
00:49:25.000If it's like a sober intellectual analysis, oh, maybe he shouldn't be doing this, you know, maybe some kind of Patrick Buchanan esque analysis of the situation versus, yeah, just some screed where you're talking about how, you know, we're all going to die because Trump was our last hope.
00:49:39.000And, you know, by signing this bad, you know, tax deal or something, it's all over.
00:49:44.000So that's kind of where I stand on things.
00:49:47.000I think that's a fair assessment, especially in terms of the criticism, because that is what you see so often.
00:49:54.000And I've often said that I don't think there's anything wrong with the criticism.
00:49:57.000Like you said, if you're to offer a constructive criticism of a specific policy and you outline, Well, here's why it's bad, and we don't agree with that.
00:50:07.000Well, at least that gets us somewhere, you know?
00:50:09.000But so much of what we see is the opposite the Zio shill, the cucking, that kind of thing.
00:50:15.000And to me, that just achieves very little, and it may actually do harm.
00:50:18.000So I think that's a sober and fair take.
00:50:20.000I think that's basically what me and the Black Pillars, or maybe like loose critics, have come to that consensus over the last six months.
00:50:30.000I know, Alex Wadaslawski, we kind of had it out for the first time, and we basically came to that conclusion as well, which is.
00:51:05.000My last question this is not so much of a serious question.
00:51:09.000This may be the most controversial question.
00:51:11.000You know, you might not get a lot of DMs or whatever for what you said so far, but this one might take the cake.
00:51:17.000And maybe you don't want to answer this one before we wrap it up, which is I've seen you interact with certain people on Twitter.com, certain people that are not popular in this movement, people who come to mind like Beardley Beardson, Sean, Prince Hubris, Paul Town.
00:51:34.000Now, it's ironic because the irony bros are so divisive.
00:51:39.000They're supposed to be funny and goofy, and yet this is a huge contention where it's like the biggest criticism I get from people is lose the irony, bro.
00:52:37.000Best way to understand the irony, bros, is that they're just there to have fun on the internet, right?
00:52:40.000They obviously do have like actual political views, but they're not just, you know, There are plenty of other accounts that you can follow if you just want humorless, very serious, grim content about immigration or something like that.
00:52:55.000You can just block them or mute them if you dislike it.
00:52:57.000But I think that they have, in the past six months to a year, they've done a good job of critiquing and really, really relentlessly criticizing things in the alt right that are worthy of being criticized.
00:53:09.000I think the alt right, I think the brand is pretty much dead.
00:53:20.000But the point being is that I think within the past six months to a year, there's just been things have just kind of gone wild.
00:53:27.000Certain segments of the movement have just fallen apart and done absurd things and doubled down on those absurd things.
00:53:33.000So it's good to have people that maybe aren't part of the movement or whatever who are able to just speak freely and not have to worry about being too diplomatic or whatever.
00:53:43.000So I can't say the same things that they say just because I'm held to a different standard because I'm, you know, and it's kind of the same thing with you, right?
00:53:51.000Because you're trying to take a little bit more of a serious approach.
00:53:57.000Paul Town, Beardson, Beardley, Sean, if they want to go on and just make fun of people for a few hours on the weekly sweat, I don't see any issue with that.
00:54:06.000And again, I think I would even say that some of it has been pretty constructive.
00:54:09.000There is a lot that deserves to be mocked.
00:54:11.000I think part of the reason why the alt right was so good at the beginning is because we were the ones doing the mocking.
00:54:15.000We were the ones that were making fun of the left, making fun of establishment conservatives for being fuddy duddies, for being totally, for being squares, people that were very.
00:54:27.000And I think the issue is that a lot of people who join the alt right, and then they ended up becoming the ones that are just totally humorless, uncompromising, unwilling to hear criticisms, light humor just totally set them off.
00:54:42.000And if you establish yourself as the kind of guy that's easily offended on the internet, you can't beat people up.
00:54:46.000So if you just get mad at online, then you lose.
00:54:50.000And so I think that these people have, I think a lot of them mean well, the people that really hate the Irony Bros, right?
00:54:58.000At the end of the day, we just need to have a sense of humor about things that we can't be sensitive, right?
00:55:04.000If we're just at the point where people, you know, the slightest ridicule of us just sets us off and makes us mad, it's going to make us look bitter.
00:55:11.000And looking bitter is probably the worst look.
00:55:13.000So, there are a lot of people out there that make fun of IE.
00:55:23.000And I think that that's kind of the best attitude to have.
00:55:27.000And going back to the beginning when we were talking about the consulate demonstration, We do need to have a sense of humor and we do need to have a sense of levity.
00:55:34.000Otherwise, we're just going to come off as humorless weirdos who are just, you know, obsessed with immigration and refuse to talk about anything else.
00:55:43.000I think there's a lot of good points in there because, you know, you're very right about joking around and the levity and all that because it's a movement for human beings, you know, not a movement for, you know, when you talk about people, because I know I can know exactly who you're talking about when you talk about humorless.
00:56:05.000People obsessed with immigration online.
00:56:12.000How this movement got off the ground in the first place and how it's going to continue to go far is maintaining that sense of fun and being, what did Kellyanne Conway say, being cheerful warriors?
00:56:23.000She said that about the Trump campaign.
00:56:25.000And that's, I think, a big part of it.
00:56:55.000You don't have to do activism or show your face.
00:56:56.000A lot of people join IE just for the social network.
00:57:00.000So those are important things to keep in mind.
00:57:02.000Also, we are in this lawsuit related to Charlottesville.
00:57:05.000We have to pay a certain amount per month to our lawyers.
00:57:07.000I have the utmost confidence that we can win, but we need to continue to afford our legal defense.
00:57:11.000So, if anyone feels so inclined, they can go to identityropa.comslash donate.
00:57:15.000Fortunately, we have been removed from virtually every form of payment processing on the internet.
00:57:22.000We're working on something, but for the time being, you can send cash check or money order to our PO box.
00:57:27.000I want to encourage more and more people to start really, really pushing that because that's something that they can never really take away from us unless Hillary wins in 2020 and she breaks the post office against us or something.
00:58:19.000He's a young guy, but a very smart guy.
00:58:21.000Well, he's older than me, so I can't really say that.
00:58:23.000But a very smart guy and very mature, which is funny because the movement has a lot of older people in it who are very immature, and yet it has a lot of young people who tend to be more mature in their worldview.
00:58:36.000Perhaps, I think, just generally in the worldview and the tactics and the strategy, it's a much more mature political movement, I think, ironically, for some of the younger people.
00:58:44.000So it was great to have him on, and it's good that we're able to come together.
00:58:49.000I have to say, this is the second guest we've had on this week, and.
00:59:06.000And I think it's been really great that we've been able to bring people together, bring together this coalition of like-minded people.
00:59:12.000And I've been saying this for a long time.
00:59:14.000What has been emerging from this year and maybe from the collapse of the old guard alt-right or the 2016 guard of the alt-right has been that.
00:59:27.000I really feel, and I'm so encouraged by this, so energized by this, that we've seen that the old kind of ineffective, goofy stuff has basically flamed itself out.
00:59:38.000And in its wake, a phoenix truly is rising of people.
00:59:43.000And you've seen them all on this show people like Patrick Casey, people like the Red Elephants, Faith Goldie, Jake Lloyd, Jared Taylor, all kinds of people, people I'm probably forgetting right now.
00:59:54.000And it's really remarkable to see that you have people that are smart.
00:59:58.000That are competent, that have the right ideas, and after the year that we've had, that have learned the lesson.
01:00:04.000They present well, they are able to communicate the ideas effectively.
01:00:09.000And so I'm very happy with what I'm seeing.
01:00:11.000It's been great that we've been able to get these kinds of people on the show and hear them out, and you can find their content.
01:00:17.000And who knows, maybe by 2020, there's some kind of an infrastructure bringing these people together.
01:00:22.000I really believe that, well, who knows, maybe it's decentralized, maybe not, but I really think the future is the America First nationalistic kind of thing.
01:00:32.000Because you know that people like myself, people like Patrick, people like Faith Goldie, people like Red Elephants, you know, we know.
01:02:18.000I think that's a step in the right direction that after a year of turmoil and conflict and infighting, some of it justified, some people might contend, some of it was not.
01:02:29.000I think we're finally pulling things back together with a unified goal, with a unified front, a unified strategy, and it's a beautiful thing.
01:02:47.000So let's take a look at some of our stream labs here.
01:02:49.000We've got Rawhide76 who says, Funny to see how boomer conservatives like Dinesh D'Souza try so hard to prove to the left they aren't racist through interviewing Richard Spencer.
01:03:01.000Goes to show they are defined by their enemies, not good people to follow.
01:03:25.000And, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm young, but I have a pretty good intuitive grasp.
01:03:30.000And on the subject of racism, what this does, in effect, is it puts conservatives, Republicans, white people always on the defensive.
01:03:39.000And when you're on the defensive, you are defined in terms of the attack.
01:03:43.000This is what people truly don't understand if you are defending yourself, You are using energy.
01:03:50.000You're using time that people are paying attention to you.
01:03:53.000You're using words or characters online if you're tweeting, talking about how the enemy is framing you.
01:04:00.000If you're saying, I'm not a racist, that's time that you could have been spending saying that the Democrats are pedophiles or the Democrats want to remove and replace you in your own country.
01:04:10.000But instead, when we devote all these resources to defending, to blocking an attack, we're not getting an alternative, compelling message out for our own.
01:04:21.000Positive values, and I mean that in the propositional sense.
01:04:24.000So that's really the takeaway you should never be on the defensive and use this.
01:04:29.000If you're ever in an argument, it doesn't even have to be political.
01:04:33.000You'll know that this is true if you use this strategy.
01:04:37.000If you're even in a stupid fight, and I'm the expert of this because I'm great at antagonizing people, even if you're in a stupid fight where people are like, oh, like you're short or something, or you're dumb, or you know, even just a goofy thing, never defend, always attack and see how it works out for you.
01:04:53.000If you're debating your wife or something, About, oh, you never take out the garbage, honey, or something like that.
01:04:59.000Just go on, well, maybe not with your wife, okay?
01:05:01.000But if it's a friend or something like that, a roommate, always go on the attack.
01:07:06.000And really, the ideal solution is no immigration, right?
01:07:11.000Because we don't want to determine immigration simply by IQ.
01:07:15.000You'll find that if we replace white people with Asian high IQ immigrants, you're still replacing white people.
01:07:21.000You're still going to have a heterogeneous country that is unstable and has civil unrest as a feature.
01:07:29.000So it's not purely about IQ, it's about homogeneity, it's about cohesion, identity.
01:07:36.000And the reason we bring up the low IQ is just to say, you know, look, these are in practical ways how we can understand, number one, that groups are different.
01:07:46.000And so when we talk about bringing in Italians, Being able to assimilate versus Mexicans, well, it's different because they're different peoples.
01:07:55.000That's not to say one's better than the other, but one is certainly going to cause less problems than the other, integrating or assimilating for a number of reasons, but that's one of them.
01:08:04.000And so I think on the one hand, it's an argument about tribes being real, race being real, but by the same token, it says in a very tangible way, well, if we're bringing in these people, it tells us that they can't build a functioning society.
01:08:20.000And it's not because they didn't have the right culture.
01:08:23.000It's because they're literally unable to.
01:08:25.000You know, if we trot out this talking point of, yeah, the immigration, this is the Jason Rich wine, the immigration from Mexico is low IQ, and low IQ means you're not able to participate in a liberal democracy.
01:08:38.000Well, then the question is not about assimilation.
01:08:41.000It's about, well, I mean, that's just not even on the table.
01:08:44.000If they can't be assimilated, it's how much are we willing to tolerate of barbarism?
01:08:50.000Graham says, My father is a 66 year old boomer, watches Fox News, says the migrant crisis in Europe and in North America is fine because they'll assimilate in a generation and their birth rates will go down and will level off and not largely impact demographics.
01:09:05.000Well, I mean, and here's a perfect example of this assimilation, I mean, that's just not true.
01:09:11.000When you look at IQ, and I referenced Jason Richwine like three sentences ago, he said in his report, I think he was at Harvard, he wrote in his doctorate thesis or something.
01:09:23.000In one of his college papers, that if you, and he did all the research for this, the IQ does not change after three generations.
01:09:51.000For three generations, this was found in Sam Huntington's book.
01:09:55.000Not only do the Hispanics not get smarter or their IQ doesn't raise, but by the same token, not only do they not get more educated, they get less educated.
01:10:40.000But I've often used the argument the murder rate in Chicago, or the murder rate for African Americans at large, is more comparable to West Africa than it is to Europe or America or any other Western country.
01:10:54.000If you take the white murder rate, it's the same as Europeans.
01:11:11.000Who are second generation, and they're almost indistinguishable in terms of the way they talk from a regular English speaker, a native speaker, because they are a native speaker.
01:11:53.000But when people try and say that, well, they're assimilating, just look at all the congressmen that showed up to Trump's State of the Union in African garb.
01:13:08.000And what do they do when they come here?
01:13:10.000They concentrate in Mexican communities where they speak Spanish, where it's a constant flow of illegal and legal immigrants into the same place.
01:13:18.000And so, they never have to assimilate.
01:13:20.000Assimilation is not something that happens organically.
01:13:23.000When it happened 100 years ago, when we had big waves of immigration, you had awesome infrastructure, institutions dedicated to actively assimilating people, English speaking and teaching them the creed, teaching them American history, all this kind of stuff.
01:14:53.000Cyrus Irena says thoughts on the Pope's stance on the death penalty.
01:14:59.000You know, it's really unfortunate with the Pope because you try and defend him.
01:15:04.000You try and you try and you try to defend this guy, and the problem is the pattern.
01:15:11.000If there was one or two things, it'd be like, okay, well, you know, the usual arguments.
01:15:15.000But, I mean, he clearly does not give a damn about Catholic tradition, about Catholic dogma, about the sacred magisterium, about scripture, or any of that.
01:15:26.000The death penalty has been approved of and been accepted as amoral, not immoral, not moral, but amoral, meaning it's permissible by Catholic teaching.
01:15:38.000All the early church fathers said it was okay.
01:15:40.000You had dozens of popes say it was okay.
01:15:48.000And so clearly, he has no regard for any of that.
01:15:51.000And by the way, he's not, when he says that it's no longer church teaching, the catechism is not a part, thank God, is not infallible, is not a part of official doctrine.
01:16:21.000He's really doing a disservice to the church, and I'm sure driving the faithful away because people take their faith very seriously.
01:16:28.000People make very tremendous sacrifices to play by the rules, right, that are laid out by the Catholic Church, which certainly are more strenuous than being a Protestant.
01:16:37.000You know, if I were a Protestant, do you know how much I could get away with if I were a Protestant?
01:16:42.000I wouldn't have to be guilty with if I were just a Protestant.
01:16:45.000If I were a Protestant, how I could eat.
01:16:47.000Like a pig, I like McDonald's all day long, and I could hoard all my wealth and go into church on Sunday.
01:16:54.000Yeah, maybe, maybe I'll just watch a podcast or something.
01:16:57.000You know, if it were that simple, I wouldn't have to get all dressed up.
01:17:01.000I could go on a t shirt and flip flops to the municipal looking building if I was a Protestant.
01:17:08.000But I'm a Catholic because we believe that Peter's the foundation of the church, and so we respect the rules, we respect all that comes a part of it.
01:17:16.000And when Pope Francis turns around and says, Yeah, I basically don't care about this, I'm just going to give the Finger to the faithful is very difficult.
01:17:24.000So it's causing a little bit of a crisis of faith for me, I have to say.
01:17:27.000I still believe that's what would be faith if it were so easily called into doubt.
01:17:33.000But it's very hard because you do try and be a good Catholic, and when you're not, you certainly feel the shame and all that.
01:17:40.000You try and rework your life so it's consistent with the rules.
01:17:44.000And then the leader of the faith is like, Yeah, I'm just, yeah, anyone can get into heaven, and anything goes basically.
01:19:08.000Most of my knowledge just comes from an intuition, just comes from instinct.
01:19:12.000I'm very much against systematic people who say, well, in order to talk about something, you have to have gone through the process and gone through the steps and read this book cover to cover and that book and know X amount of things.
01:19:39.000I would not write a book about politics for a while because I need to read more, because I need to know more things before I could adequately contribute something that's new and contextual.
01:19:51.000But on something like speaking or debating, the intuition is all really that there is, is the instinct of it.
01:19:59.000You don't really need an empirical knowledge or an education and that kind of thing to just know what works.
01:20:04.000And so I don't know, maybe I'd have to think about it really hard, but who knows?
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