America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - DACA Demolition Debate feat. Will Nardi | America First Ep. 9

00:00:04.000 Good evening, everybody.

00:00:05.000 You are watching America First.

00:00:07.000 My name is Nicholas J. Fuentes, and tonight, tonight, we have a very special episode for you as we return to YouTube.

00:00:15.000 Tonight is the DACA demolition debate.

00:00:18.000 Everybody, get excited, get hype.

00:00:20.000 It's going to be an hour of very fun, very smart, very brutal dialogue about, of course, our favorite illegal immigration program, DACA.

00:00:30.000 And, of course, tonight, we are joined by the one, the only, our favorite.

00:00:34.000 You know him, you love him from my timeline.

00:00:37.000 And James Alsop's timeline, the man, the myth, Ayn Rand's favorite person himself.

00:00:43.000 Will Nardi, how are you doing tonight?

00:00:45.000 How's it going, Nick?

00:00:47.000 Thanks again for having me on your show.

00:00:49.000 Of course, of course.

00:00:50.000 It's our pleasure to have you.

00:00:52.000 And just before we get started, is the audio coming through okay?

00:00:56.000 We're just going to turn it over to the audience for a moment.

00:00:59.000 Is the audio okay?

00:01:00.000 Is Will a little bit quiet or is there an echo?

00:01:04.000 Let's see.

00:01:05.000 Let's see what happens.

00:01:07.000 Can you hear me?

00:01:07.000 Can you guys hear me?

00:01:09.000 Okay, looks like we're okay.

00:01:11.000 All right.

00:01:14.000 Okay.

00:01:15.000 Okay, time to go.

00:01:16.000 So, we'll start the order of this debate.

00:01:20.000 We will have two opening statements.

00:01:22.000 Will Nardi has decided to go first.

00:01:24.000 I told them he can choose.

00:01:26.000 He gets the initiative because he is our guest here.

00:01:28.000 So, he'll go first with his opening statement.

00:01:31.000 I will follow with mine.

00:01:32.000 And then we will proceed with a pretty loose, pretty informal back and forth.

00:01:37.000 We've had debates before.

00:01:38.000 It's been pretty respectful.

00:01:39.000 So, as long as that's the case, I think we will have a Fun and productive debate.

00:01:43.000 Does that sound good, Will?

00:01:45.000 That sounds good, Nick.

00:01:45.000 And again, thank you.

00:01:47.000 And like I said last time, you have to separate the ideas from the person.

00:01:51.000 I will respect you as a person, but I still think you're full of something else.

00:01:54.000 So, in any case, for my opening statement, I just want to tell you about a Mexican family that once wanted to come to America for a better life.

00:02:05.000 They came, they assimilated to American values and had children, and eventually that child sat right here in front of me today.

00:02:14.000 So brainwashed that he believes everybody of his ethnicity to be a part of his clan or family.

00:02:20.000 And if that is really the case, then he right now is turning his back on hundreds of thousands of his family members that will soon be uprooted and forced back into the conditions that caused them to come here in the first place.

00:02:35.000 That's your opening statement.

00:02:36.000 That was the whole thing.

00:02:37.000 It seemed a little bit short.

00:02:38.000 We seemed a little bit light on facts and statistics.

00:02:42.000 But I'll take it.

00:02:43.000 I'll take it, Will.

00:02:44.000 Let me just check real quick.

00:02:46.000 Okay, looks like we're good on the sound.

00:02:49.000 All right, so my opening statement I have several arguments, and I know many people were worried or they were questioning how I would approach this issue.

00:02:57.000 Many people talked to me, they gave me articles, they gave me statistics, even my mom.

00:03:02.000 My mom weighed in and tried to tell me, you know, some things I could point out.

00:03:06.000 My mom is a little bit more sympathetic to this cause, but I settled on the number one issue, which actually, coincidentally. 0.57

00:03:14.000 You mean your mom supports the DACA Dreamers? 0.91

00:03:16.000 No. 0.65

00:03:17.000 No, but she, I don't think she is totally in line with my thinking on this.

00:03:21.000 But besides the point, I'm debating, not my mom.

00:03:24.000 The number one argument, the number one argument, the only one that matters, really, the only thing that's important about the DACA debate is America first.

00:03:34.000 The American government, the responsibility of the American government is to protect the American people, protect the lives of the American people, protect the property of the American people, and protect the liberty of the American people.

00:03:50.000 Every argument that I've heard so far in support of the DACA program or in support of the quote unquote dreamers has implicitly or explicitly been an argument in favor of our government taking the responsibility of the welfare of alien children, of foreign children, over the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of this government's own people.

00:04:12.000 Now, we live in a world with 196 sovereign governments, and it seems that every single one is content to look after its own people except.

00:04:20.000 For hours. 0.52

00:04:21.000 It's time that we have an immigration policy that benefits the people in this country and not the people outside of this country. 0.97

00:04:29.000 And that's my opening statement. 0.98

00:04:31.000 I'll give you a rebuttal.

00:04:32.000 Tell me why I'm wrong.

00:04:34.000 Well, I don't disagree with you.

00:04:36.000 I mean, I stand for protecting American interests with closed borders and a safe vetting process that will allow immigrants to legally come here. 0.58

00:04:44.000 And, you know, when it comes to the DACA program, I recognize that as unconstitutional. 0.58

00:04:49.000 I mean, no one is debating that. 0.72

00:04:51.000 But at this point in time, you have 800,000 immigrants who are registered on DACA, illegal immigrants, granted, and they are here within the United States.

00:05:02.000 I believe that Mexico has a responsibility because of them coming here, absolutely, because 78% of those immigrants are from Mexico, even though 22% are from elsewhere.

00:05:11.000 But even just focusing on Mexico right now, aside from DACA, there's a huge illegal immigration problem over something like 12 million, 13 million, I've seen in some estimates of illegal immigrants within the United States.

00:05:23.000 And Mexico absolutely has a responsibility to respect our borders, and they should be paying a recompense in some form that would have to be debated to fix our broken system. 0.73

00:05:34.000 Right now, however, the expensive and resource heavy cost of deporting over 1.3 million DACA registered immigrants is unrealistic and cruel to the once children who are now working members of our society. 0.85

00:05:49.000 And I don't care who you are or what beliefs that you have.

00:05:53.000 But it serves everyone's self interest to live in a compassionate world.

00:05:58.000 All right, so I'm hearing a couple of arguments here.

00:06:00.000 I'm hearing essentially two arguments, the first of which is that the cost of deporting these people, I think we agree and I think it's fair to concede that we both believe DACA is unconstitutional and should be rescinded.

00:06:14.000 The main argument now is what is to be done, what determination will be made about the 800,000 DACA recipients in the country today.

00:06:24.000 Now, you are saying that it is too expensive.

00:06:27.000 The cost, the fiscal burden of deporting these people is too high for it to be worth it.

00:06:31.000 I'm not saying it's too expensive. 1.00

00:06:33.000 I'm just saying that, you know, last year we spent $3.2 billion deporting illegal immigrants.

00:06:38.000 Do you know how much it costs per deportation?

00:06:41.000 Over $10,000.

00:06:42.000 So if you're talking about 800,000 immigrants, and I'm just talking registered ones, the unregistered ones, the 1.3 million who were eligible for the DACA program are going to have to be as well.

00:06:53.000 So, and the rest of the millions and millions of ones that hid in the shadows instead of coming into the light and trying to do this in a process that we gave them. 0.97

00:07:02.000 So, my question to you is if this is going to be serving American interests, are we going to be having taxpayers spend billions of dollars to remove, not just billions of dollars, but police forces, military forces, whatever you want to do to capture all these illegal immigrants? 0.98

00:07:18.000 Are you going to have taxpayers pay for that? 0.96

00:07:20.000 Yes.

00:07:21.000 Yes, because in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the framers.

00:07:26.000 Laid out very specifically what the House of Representatives is allowed constitutionally to appropriate taxpayer money for.

00:07:34.000 One of those items is the enforcement of the law.

00:07:37.000 Probably the most important, many would argue, item in Article I, Section 8 is the enforcement of our laws, more specifically of our border laws.

00:07:46.000 So, you know, if we're going to look at the fiscal budget for 2017, I would say, number one, before we spend money on Medicare, before we spend money on Social Security, before we spend money on any of the crazy things that this government spends money on, I would say, before any of that, yes.

00:08:02.000 You mean all of the other people who paid into a system their entire lives?

00:08:06.000 Excuse me.

00:08:08.000 Yes.

00:08:09.000 Before any of that, we have to enforce the laws.

00:08:13.000 We have to deport people that are a threat to the country.

00:08:15.000 Now, that's number one.

00:08:16.000 Number two, you're asking, is it worth the money?

00:08:19.000 You're saying, number one, we shouldn't spend money on that.

00:08:22.000 Number two, you're saying, because it's not worth it.

00:08:24.000 Well, let me tell you.

00:08:28.000 You bring up the figure that it costs $10,000 to deport an illegal immigrant.

00:08:34.000 Do you know how much it costs to educate an average pupil in the Chicagoland area?

00:08:40.000 It's more than $10,000, it's almost twice as much.

00:08:43.000 So, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, you'll get a chance, you'll get a chance for your rebuttal.

00:08:49.000 Allow me to finish. 0.94

00:08:50.000 You said that it costs $10,000 to deport an illegal immigrant, and I'm telling you, and I'm asking you, if it costs more than twice that much to educate the average pupil, and you look, and foreign born Mexicans in this country, 10% of foreign born Mexican women are having children, and their fertility rate is upwards of 2.1, 2.3, 2.5, how do you explain how it would not be worth it to deport these people for 10 grand? 0.94

00:09:16.000 When they can cost upwards of $20,000 or $30,000 or sometimes $60,000 in public services. 0.96

00:09:22.000 You good?

00:09:23.000 Okay, now I'm going to offer my rebuttal because I'm going to have to give you an economics lesson.

00:09:26.000 First of all, Nick, the $10,000 for deportation is excess of that.

00:09:31.000 But when you're talking about public services to these people, you're talking about people paying into a public school system.

00:09:36.000 Absolutely.

00:09:37.000 What happens when people go out of the public school system?

00:09:40.000 They now get a job or they die or they go on to some sort of a welfare system, something like that.

00:09:46.000 But the case with all of the people who were registered with DACA, the 800,000 people are all either in school, in a university, or they are working and contributing members of society.

00:09:58.000 So they are not siphoning our entire system.

00:10:01.000 They are not a drain.

00:10:02.000 And I'm not excluding illegal immigrants. 1.00

00:10:04.000 I absolutely understand the problem with illegal immigrants on our system. 1.00

00:10:07.000 But when you're talking about statistics, there's a big difference between people who are working and paying taxes into the system and people who are hiding in the shadows, not paying taxes, whether or not, You know, they're actually doing jobs that are really low wage or whatever, you know, that's against our laws. 1.00

00:10:22.000 That's one point.

00:10:23.000 The second point is, and I have all these kinds of statistics.

00:10:27.000 So, first of all, Maria Ekanagi, a PhD, a senior fellow at the Income and Benefits Policy Center at the Urban Institute, quote, about half of the workers ages 18 to 64 without a high school diploma are immigrants. 0.97

00:10:41.000 Now, this is all illegal immigrants. 0.98

00:10:43.000 We know that many of these immigrants are unauthorized and do not speak English well. 0.99

00:10:48.000 As such, they tend to work in different occupations than U.S. born workers, often occupations that require little interaction with the public, that do not require licensing, and that do not require supervisory skills.

00:10:59.000 So, we're talking farming, service, sanitation jobs, things like that.

00:11:03.000 The number of U.S. born workers with no college education has declined by almost 5 million since 2007, according to an analysis of census data. 1.00

00:11:12.000 That means fewer U.S. born workers are competing for jobs requiring less education, the kind of immigrants usually get. 0.73

00:11:19.000 Are replacing, not displacing, U.S. born workers. 1.00

00:11:23.000 First of all, the trend should continue. 0.99

00:11:25.000 Of the top 10 occupations with the most projected employment growth, eight do not require a high school diploma, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 0.88

00:11:32.000 So, regardless of the fact that they're coming into this country and they are working, they're not taking jobs that Americans want.

00:11:39.000 They're taking jobs that no one wants, and they are contributing and they're paying taxes to society.

00:11:43.000 So, to try to use a statistic to say that they're siphoning leeches off of the system is inaccurate because you're grouping in people who are working with millions of others who are not.

00:11:52.000 I never said that they were leeches and that they weren't working.

00:11:56.000 I was saying that the cost.

00:11:57.000 And this is what I'm saying.

00:11:58.000 You're putting words in my mouth.

00:12:00.000 I think you're taking a straw man argument that many have made before, but an argument which I'm not making.

00:12:05.000 The argument that I'm making for the deportation of these people is not a fiscal one.

00:12:09.000 It's not because they're taking jobs, although they are.

00:12:12.000 It's not because they don't pay as much as they take in public services, which they are.

00:12:17.000 It has a lot more to do with does this government enforce the laws?

00:12:20.000 Does this government enforce the laws and does it look after its people?

00:12:23.000 What I was responding to purely, what I was responding to singularly, In terms of the fiscal, in terms of the finances, is the $10,000 that it costs to deport a person. 0.60

00:12:34.000 And I am saying that if you look at public services, if you look at the most important thing that they consume, probably the primary thing that any one of these DACA people in particular would be consuming is public education.

00:12:46.000 And if you look at the eligibility for DACA, these are people that had to be under the age of 31 by June 2012. 0.52

00:12:53.000 They had to have come to the U.S. under the age of 16, and they must have lived in the U.S. since 2007.

00:12:58.000 Now, the median age is 25.

00:13:00.000 So if you're looking, Probably about half of them are under 25.

00:13:05.000 Yes, currently.

00:13:07.000 About half of them are under 25.

00:13:09.000 So, probably most of them are in the public school system.

00:13:13.000 They are taking public resources, and you can argue if they're paying taxes or not, but the very fact of them being in school, they're drawing out more money than it costs to deport them. 0.93

00:13:23.000 And again, we're not saying that they should be deported because they cost money, but it is to say that it does not actually cost money if you're looking at the present value of an illegal immigrant. 0.89

00:13:32.000 Nick, that's an entirely different matter, but I don't know about you. 0.98

00:13:36.000 I haven't seen too many 25 year old high school students in the public school system, first of all.

00:13:41.000 Second of all, you cannot use a statistical generalization of all illegal immigrants to talk about what a person who's working is paying into the system.

00:13:50.000 I mean, you can even talk about the co founder of Uber, who was a refugee who was originally going in through the same welfare system as everybody else, who's now contributing millions of dollars in taxes every year.

00:14:01.000 Again, this is an individual argument, and you have to separate the 800,000 people.

00:14:07.000 Who are registered with DACA from the millions who are not, that we cannot discuss.

00:14:11.000 And you're using statistics that are broadly generalizing all of them.

00:14:14.000 So, first of all, you cannot prove that they are taking more money than they are giving back.

00:14:19.000 It's probably true because most of them are not making thousands and thousands of dollars a year.

00:14:24.000 Okay, well, you've just conceded that they're taking more money than they're putting in.

00:14:27.000 I'm not conceding anything.

00:14:29.000 You just conceded that.

00:14:30.000 We're talking probabilities here.

00:14:32.000 It's probably true that most of these people, because the average age of when they came to this country was six years old, when it started in 2007.

00:14:39.000 Today, 10 years later, most of them are going to be 16 years old, which means they are still in the public school system, and then there's those who are not in the public school system.

00:14:47.000 That being the case, you have people who are either in school or working. 0.65

00:14:51.000 Same thing as any other American who's also in school or working. 0.72

00:14:56.000 Here's the difference. 0.96

00:14:57.000 I don't get the difference.

00:14:58.000 I'll tell you the difference.

00:14:59.000 When you have a 16 year old DACA recipient that's in this country, their parents came here illegally.

00:15:05.000 My parents, when I went through the public high school system, did not come here illegally.

00:15:10.000 That's number one.

00:15:11.000 Number two, they were working and contributing and paying property taxes and income taxes, and they had been doing that for a long time.

00:15:18.000 And their parents had been doing that, and their parents before them. 0.55

00:15:21.000 So, the fact that you can compare somebody who rolls up here without a visa, without the proper paperwork, not having any experience in this country, their ancestors, their forefathers never built anything in this country, and say that somehow it's comparable when they come here and they take and take and take with both hands from our public school system, which you conceded because you said they're coming in here when they're six years old.

00:15:44.000 They're 16 now, so they're still in the public school system.

00:15:46.000 They're not contributing.

00:15:48.000 And it gets again back to the heart of the matter are we a nation of people?

00:15:53.000 And we are a nation of people.

00:15:55.000 It's not so simple that you come up and you say, wow, you know, look, this is America.

00:16:00.000 You can just have all kinds of free stuff.

00:16:02.000 You get all kinds of free things.

00:16:04.000 You get free school, you get free food, you get free housing, you get free roads.

00:16:11.000 You get a free allowance through Social Security.

00:16:13.000 It doesn't work like that.

00:16:15.000 It never has worked like that.

00:16:16.000 And that's the difference.

00:16:17.000 And you yourself conceded that they're taking more than they're putting in.

00:16:21.000 That is the present value.

00:16:23.000 And when I say present value, that isn't.

00:16:25.000 I know you think I'm some cold analyst who has no heart for people in a bad situation, but I'm referring to the fact, the accounting principle, that the present value of their contribution to the gross domestic product in the long term is a deficit on the country.

00:16:40.000 And that's what it comes down to. 1.00

00:16:41.000 And you bring up the founder of Uber, who's a refugee. 0.95

00:16:45.000 Let me ask you this Do you honestly believe that when you have 800,000 people coming over here illegally as children, that these are all major tech entrepreneurs, that these are Alexander Hamiltons and Albert Einsteins that are Pouring across the border from Mexico? 0.88

00:17:01.000 You're offering a straw man argument, first of all.

00:17:04.000 And second of all, I'm not even touching any of the moral arguments.

00:17:07.000 I'm not touching any of the emotional arguments.

00:17:09.000 I'm just strictly talking about what is the facts of the situation right now.

00:17:14.000 And you have people who are showing that they are working into the system, that they are contributing members of the society.

00:17:20.000 And first of all, I mean, I am considered, in your view, a siphon of society.

00:17:25.000 I went through the public school system.

00:17:27.000 I'm at a public college right now.

00:17:28.000 And I have not paid thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes and property taxes or anything like that.

00:17:33.000 And there are Americans who will never do that, who will be beneficiaries of the welfare state for the rest of their lives.

00:17:39.000 My point is to say that right now we have a group of people who are working and willing to be members of our society, not just members, but law abiding members of our society.

00:17:49.000 And I see no reason why people should be uprooted, especially in some cases when they have birthright citizenship and you're going to have to separate the families.

00:17:58.000 I see no reason why people should be uprooted because what?

00:18:03.000 Their parents haven't paid into the system.

00:18:05.000 Well, if their parents came with them and they're working now, then they are paying into the system.

00:18:09.000 It's just, it's the fact of the matter. 0.73

00:18:10.000 It's no different from any other immigrant that comes into this country legally and goes into the public school system. 0.99

00:18:15.000 The only difference is that they didn't do the paperwork. 0.99

00:18:19.000 And I don't excuse that, obviously. 0.95

00:18:20.000 I'm not okay with illegal immigration. 0.98

00:18:22.000 I want closed borders.

00:18:23.000 But I think there comes a time, like I said before, where you need to treat the situation with both compassion and realism.

00:18:30.000 Compassion for the kids who were six years old when they came over here and it was not their decision, and realism for the fact that.

00:18:36.000 If you're going to be spending billions of dollars of writing throughout all the United States to try to find people who are good people, who are working in jobs that you don't even want to take, I mean, that just makes no sense to me.

00:18:47.000 I will make a little bit of sense of it for you, Will.

00:18:51.000 I have compassion.

00:18:52.000 You say I don't have compassion.

00:18:53.000 I have plenty of compassion.

00:18:56.000 I'll explain.

00:18:57.000 I'm about to explain.

00:18:59.000 I have compassion.

00:19:00.000 I have a big heart.

00:19:01.000 I have lots of it.

00:19:03.000 I have compassion for my people.

00:19:06.000 I have compassion for the people in this country.

00:19:09.000 Wait.

00:19:10.000 I'm.

00:19:11.000 Excuse me.

00:19:12.000 I'm an American.

00:19:13.000 I'm an American citizen.

00:19:15.000 I'm an American taxpayer.

00:19:17.000 I have compassion for Americans.

00:19:18.000 And let me tell you something.

00:19:20.000 The president of Mexico has compassion for Mexicans.

00:19:24.000 The former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, has compassion for Mexicans, or at least he says he does.

00:19:31.000 Nobody has compassion for Americans anymore. 0.98

00:19:34.000 We're all expected to open our doors and open our hearts to every poor, sad person that washes up on our shores. 0.99

00:19:42.000 But the people in this country that have been paying taxes all their lives, the people in this country that have been paying into the system for 50 or 60 years, and their parents have been paying into it, And their parents built the country, and their parents fought or died defending this country, and then you compare them, you say that they are of the same regard as people that have never been in this country, that disrespect this country, that in many cases hate this country and speak out against it. 1.00

00:20:10.000 I can't make any sense out of that position.

00:20:12.000 I have no compassion.

00:20:13.000 I have no compassion for people who don't want to make their own country great. 1.00

00:20:17.000 You look at people in Mexico who wash up on our shores, they sort of trudge across the border in a very sad fashion. 0.99

00:20:24.000 All of these entrepreneurs and geniuses and Alexander Hamilton's, why are they not in Mexico making Mexico great?

00:20:32.000 Why is Vicente Fox, why is President Nieto not making their country great for them?

00:20:37.000 Why is it our responsibility?

00:20:39.000 You keep saying these people, they want to work, they want to be law abiding, even though they broke the law by coming here.

00:20:45.000 That's great, that's fine and well.

00:20:47.000 This is a country for Americans.

00:20:49.000 You do the paperwork, maybe we let you in.

00:20:51.000 But it's not a place where you come with both hands open and you take with both hands for 50 years and you don't give back.

00:21:00.000 So, I get what you're saying, obviously, you know, that the people in the United States have paid into this system and we've built this country. 0.91

00:21:06.000 I mean, you have people who are legal immigrants that are coming here now that not necessarily built this country, and it's no different from the argument that I just made. 0.95

00:21:13.000 And you're right, you know, it is unfair. 1.00

00:21:15.000 It's unfair to my Chinese teacher who came through this country illegally and waded through the entire system. 1.00

00:21:20.000 It's unfair to my parents who had, not my parents, my grandparents who had legally immigrated into this country. 1.00

00:21:27.000 It's unfair to anybody who has, and I'm not denying that. 1.00

00:21:30.000 But I don't understand why we're not supposed to forgive that.

00:21:33.000 And I don't understand why it's easier to deport all these people.

00:21:38.000 Because, first of all, I mean, I am all, I am seriously, I am all for keeping this country safe and finding all of the people in this country who want to threaten it and who do not want to be contributing members of this society.

00:21:52.000 First of all, there's a lot of non contributing members of the society who are legal citizens anyway.

00:21:58.000 I don't think we're even talking about that right now.

00:22:00.000 But the point is to say that aside from the birthright citizenship issue, which I do want to get into, when you're talking about these people, to me, I want to do what I consider to be the right thing, which is that you have people who are in this country.

00:22:18.000 Most of them are young children.

00:22:20.000 And if you're going to take these children and send them back to Mexico, well, are you going to send their parents with them? 0.85

00:22:27.000 Are you going to keep them here?

00:22:27.000 Are you going to send their parents back?

00:22:29.000 And then what's the way to deal with the situation?

00:22:31.000 And the reason why I say realism is because. 1.00

00:22:34.000 I don't like the fact that we have illegal immigrants in this country. 1.00

00:22:37.000 And it is an issue that they are disrespecting the law by being here. 1.00

00:22:42.000 But 78% of them, I'm just talking about people from Mexico.

00:22:45.000 These are not people coming from a war zone, they're coming from Mexico.

00:22:47.000 Obviously, the conditions were bad enough that they would risk their lives to come here to go through this system because they wanted to have opportunity just like anybody else.

00:22:55.000 And I don't excuse the fact that they are there.

00:22:57.000 But when you have people who are here, you know, people who I've actually interacted with, who are obviously nice people.

00:23:06.000 And they're paying into it.

00:23:07.000 And you see them next door to you.

00:23:08.000 You see them around you.

00:23:10.000 Like, I just don't understand why we're not supposed to feel any kind of compassion for them.

00:23:17.000 And, you know, maybe it's just this hyper nationalism, you know, ah, Americans are so great.

00:23:22.000 You know, we're not supposed to have any feelings for other human beings.

00:23:27.000 But it just doesn't make sense to me why you would be against helping other people who it was obviously not their choice.

00:23:36.000 We can have compassion.

00:23:37.000 I'm not saying you can't have compassion.

00:23:39.000 In fact, you look at the situation and.

00:23:42.000 But would you support a way for them to stay here if they went through a legal immigration process?

00:23:45.000 No. 0.90

00:23:46.000 And I will tell you why.

00:23:48.000 We can have compassion for these people, and believe me, I have compassion for these people as well.

00:23:48.000 I'll tell you why.

00:23:53.000 It's a horrible situation.

00:23:55.000 I don't think anybody, I mean, people are enthusiastic to see deportations because of how many people in this country have been abused for so long, abused by our government, and seemingly we have people who come here and they get treated better.

00:24:07.000 So you can understand why some people may be enthusiastic to see the enforcement of the law.

00:24:11.000 However, we look at the situation, and it's not a great situation.

00:24:16.000 I will grant you this that it is a horrible situation that many people find themselves in, where it's going to be very difficult.

00:24:22.000 There'll be a transition.

00:24:24.000 There'll be loss.

00:24:25.000 There will be a lot of bad things for a lot of people.

00:24:28.000 However, when we look at the situation from the point of view or the perspective of a government, of a nation, of a civilization, you have to make these difficult decisions.

00:24:38.000 And, you know, you can look at one example, and people will say this is anecdotal, but it's not, and I'll explain why.

00:24:46.000 Emmanuel Rangel or Rangel Hernandez was an illegal immigrant in this country.

00:24:51.000 He was a dreamer.

00:24:52.000 He was a DACA recipient.

00:24:55.000 He was a member of a drug gang, and despite that, immigration and customs let him stay. 0.79

00:25:01.000 They let him have his application approved, and he was able to have a work permit and stay in the country, even though he was a part of a gang because he was a dreamer, of course.

00:25:11.000 He ended up killing four people.

00:25:13.000 He killed four American citizens.

00:25:15.000 And I don't bring this up to do the Sean Hannity guilt trip.

00:25:19.000 People get murdered all the time.

00:25:20.000 People in our country murder each other as well.

00:25:22.000 And I'm not trying to minimize it, I'm not trying to say that's the whole issue.

00:25:26.000 But it is to say this, those four people should have never died.

00:25:30.000 They should have never died because that was completely preventable. 0.99

00:25:33.000 If we had enforced our borders, as our government is constitutionally required to do, and we paid them 40% of our income every year to do that, if we had not been bringing in illegal immigrants, those four people would be alive. 0.99

00:25:47.000 And, you know, I don't know what you tell the parents of, well, hey, hey, hey, I let you finish. 0.97

00:25:51.000 I don't know what you would tell to the parents of those four people.

00:25:54.000 I don't know what you would tell if those people had children.

00:25:57.000 But those people should be alive because the person that killed them should have never been in this country if we were enforcing the laws.

00:26:04.000 And it's this empathy, it's this compassion argument why we brought them in, why we let them stay in the first place.

00:26:11.000 And I'm not saying that they're all murderers.

00:26:14.000 I'm not saying that.

00:26:15.000 But if there is one murderer among them, that is one too many and they all have to go back.

00:26:21.000 Because if you allow them to stay and potentially there are murderers, potentially there are rapists, potentially there are crooks and bad hombres among them.

00:26:31.000 What you are doing, maybe you don't see it this way, but this is what you are doing abstractly, logically, what you are doing is you are sacrificing potential American citizens.

00:26:43.000 You are sacrificing American lives for the comfort of these people so that they could have an easier life. 0.86

00:26:51.000 And you keep bringing up that it's only 72% Mexicans.

00:26:54.000 I actually broke down the data, it's 93% Hispanics.

00:26:58.000 It's 93% Hispanics.

00:27:00.000 The next highest group is 2.3% Asian.

00:27:03.000 1.2% Caribbean, and 0.2% Nigerian.

00:27:07.000 So it's a very, very small percentage that are fleeing war zones.

00:27:10.000 The vast majority are fleeing broken countries that don't work.

00:27:14.000 And you know what? 1.00

00:27:15.000 They left those countries for a reason.

00:27:17.000 They don't work.

00:27:18.000 They pick up this country that doesn't work. 0.98

00:27:20.000 They come across the border.

00:27:21.000 And in the case of Emmanuel Hernandez, they put it down and it costs American lives.

00:27:26.000 We may feel bad for the masses.

00:27:28.000 We may say that they're not all murderers.

00:27:31.000 But if there's one murderer among them, that's one too many because American lives have to come first in the mind of the American government.

00:27:39.000 Well, I don't disagree with you.

00:27:39.000 All right.

00:27:41.000 And how those people that you mentioned were killed because of a broken immigration system.

00:27:46.000 And I said before, we need closed borders. 0.61

00:27:50.000 We didn't go to Mexico and pick up these children and told them to come in here and become a part of America.

00:27:57.000 But the rest of the people who are here now, aside from the anecdotal evidence that you're providing of a handful of murderers inside of them, the rest of them are law abiding citizens that are contributing members of society.

00:28:09.000 And they should not pay for the crimes of the rest of the other people who are there. 0.95

00:28:13.000 Obviously, like I said, it's a huge problem that we have an illegal immigration system. 1.00

00:28:19.000 But there's no difference between people who are coming from Mexico that are killers and murderers or whatever and people in America who are killers and murderers or whatever. 1.00

00:28:28.000 I'm not saying that it justifies anything that they're doing at all, but I'm saying, do you honestly care? 0.50

00:28:33.000 I just can't tell if it's all a show that you're just sitting there and so hyper nationalist and everything and saying, rah, rah, America.

00:28:41.000 Or do you just I can't tell?

00:28:43.000 Because as a person, you know, it does not affect me.

00:28:48.000 I look around this country and what I've seen.

00:28:51.000 Undocumented immigrants before, and I've interacted with them on my college campus.

00:28:54.000 I have nothing against them.

00:28:55.000 They're there.

00:28:56.000 They do their thing.

00:28:57.000 They eat like the rest of us.

00:28:57.000 They study.

00:28:59.000 They're not killing anybody.

00:29:00.000 I mean, to me, it's more of an injustice to make an entire group of people pay for the way that a few people have stained their reputation than allowing people who are contributing members to stay.

00:29:14.000 And from a moral perspective, I mean, I can talk about the way that I see it.

00:29:20.000 You can talk about the way that you see it.

00:29:22.000 And different people are going to watch this debate and they're going to say, Well, it doesn't really matter to me.

00:29:26.000 It doesn't really affect me that they're here.

00:29:28.000 You're saying it affects the very principle of the thing.

00:29:33.000 How dare these people come here and disrespect our laws and our borders?

00:29:39.000 And instead of actually taking down the big mask, okay, Nick, you're a real big guy, instead of actually taking that off and saying, okay, they're here now, and obviously they're not all bad people, so what's wrong with letting them stay?

00:29:51.000 And I'm not saying that all of them are coming from war zones, but the ones that are, I mean, you're talking about people.

00:29:56.000 Who had no choice but to go to another country or they would be killed.

00:30:00.000 And if I was in that position and it was me and my kids or my family, I could give a damn what the laws of another country are because I will go to protect them because I don't put some abstract concept of American nationalism first.

00:30:14.000 I put my family first.

00:30:16.000 And when it comes to my family and protecting the people that I care about, I have compassion for these people and I have pride in a nation that has compassion for the world.

00:30:27.000 And wouldn't you, if you were in a situation where the United States was under attack and you had to leave, wouldn't you want another country to take you in?

00:30:35.000 I mean, it's no different for me.

00:30:37.000 And again, I recognize that it's a smaller percentage of people who are coming from war zones, but it's no different to me than the Holocaust when you have people who are Jews who have to escape because they're literally being genocide. 0.52

00:30:52.000 It's just a genocide in that country.

00:30:54.000 And to me, you know, part of my values of helping other people and.

00:30:59.000 Especially when it's really, it has no impact on me. 1.00

00:31:02.000 I'm not hosting an illegal immigrant in my house. 1.00

00:31:04.000 Well, that's just it. 1.00

00:31:05.000 It's not affecting you.

00:31:07.000 You didn't get killed.

00:31:08.000 You didn't get raped.

00:31:09.000 You didn't get stolen from.

00:31:11.000 No, no, by the grace of God, it hasn't affected me.

00:31:14.000 And it may affect me in the future.

00:31:16.000 Well, but okay, but understand what you're saying.

00:31:22.000 I will tell you the difference because you cannot prevent domestic crime. 0.62

00:31:26.000 You cannot prevent Americans killing each other.

00:31:29.000 You cannot prevent, I mean, to a certain extent, a society has crime.

00:31:32.000 And you cannot prevent people from committing crimes without infringing on their constitutional liberties.

00:31:38.000 In a free society, we have to accept that to some degree. 1.00

00:31:40.000 However, with immigrants and with illegal immigrants in particular, Every act of crime committed by them is 100% preventable. 1.00

00:31:50.000 That's the difference. 1.00

00:31:51.000 And you keep asking me what the difference is. 0.82

00:31:53.000 It's not because they're Mexican. 0.74

00:31:54.000 It's not because they're Hispanic. 1.00

00:31:56.000 It's because they should have never been here in the first place. 1.00

00:31:59.000 It's because if we had a government that was properly enforcing the borders, and what that means, it doesn't mean just stopping people from coming here, but it means deporting people who get through. 0.99

00:32:09.000 If the government were enforcing the laws and deporting illegals, all those four people and every other person that got killed by an illegal immigrant would still be alive. 0.87

00:32:17.000 And you say. 0.97

00:32:18.000 I was where you are.

00:32:19.000 You say it doesn't affect you, and that's you're lucky it doesn't affect you.

00:32:24.000 I'm now on the point that, okay, they're here.

00:32:27.000 A few of them have committed some crimes.

00:32:29.000 That's the problem.

00:32:31.000 And what are we going to do about the people who spent their entire lives here?

00:32:36.000 What kind of a way.

00:32:38.000 I just don't understand why you can't see the position that these people are in.

00:32:42.000 Of course I can see.

00:32:43.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:32:45.000 Are you going to become a murderer at some point in your life, to your knowledge?

00:32:49.000 I may.

00:32:52.000 You may.

00:32:53.000 I may.

00:32:53.000 Who knows?

00:32:54.000 Who knows what happens?

00:32:55.000 I'm joking, but go ahead.

00:32:57.000 Well, in any case, I don't think a lot of these people are planning on overthrowing the American government and murdering everybody in sight.

00:32:57.000 All right.

00:33:05.000 Wow.

00:33:05.000 These people are literally just here, and they're working.

00:33:08.000 Okay.

00:33:09.000 They've assimilated to American values.

00:33:09.000 Again.

00:33:11.000 Have they?

00:33:12.000 That's not true.

00:33:13.000 And to me, it would be a stain on the history of America to say that we're going to have to go through this entire thing because.

00:33:22.000 We couldn't get over the fact that they broke the law.

00:33:24.000 Like, to me, like, obviously, I respect the law and I support the law and we need the law.

00:33:28.000 No, you don't.

00:33:30.000 You don't want these people in here flagranting the law.

00:33:34.000 That's your policy.

00:33:38.000 Who broke the law.

00:33:41.000 Don't tell me you care about the law if you want to abrogate their crime.

00:33:48.000 No, I never have.

00:33:51.000 Nope.

00:33:52.000 I'm not saying I have.

00:33:55.000 I'm just saying that you're taking Americans and you're putting them in this light.

00:34:00.000 Like you think that we're all such incredible, self righteous people.

00:34:03.000 That's not what I'm doing.

00:34:04.000 But I mean, this is the thing.

00:34:06.000 Nick, you claim that you believe in God.

00:34:08.000 You claim to be a Christian. 0.99

00:34:09.000 And I mean, if you really believe that, then cast the first stone. 1.00

00:34:12.000 Because if you think that you should be forgiven for your sins, but none of these other people should be, then be the biggest hypocrite on the face of the earth. 1.00

00:34:12.000 Seriously, I dare you. 1.00

00:34:20.000 Because it is contradictory to the values that you claim to espouse, yet.

00:34:25.000 You continue to push this because.

00:34:26.000 Are you finished?

00:34:27.000 This point has gone on for very long.

00:34:27.000 Are you finished?

00:34:29.000 Are you finished?

00:34:30.000 Can I rebut now?

00:34:31.000 Are you.

00:34:32.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:34:33.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:34:33.000 Are you a Christian first? 0.99

00:34:35.000 Of course, of course, but this is hardly relevant to the conversation, which is one of law.

00:34:41.000 It is one of law, completely irrelevant.

00:34:43.000 Stop, stop, stop. 0.58

00:34:45.000 You question a man's faith, and it has nothing to do with the conversation.

00:34:50.000 Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

00:34:53.000 You've gone on long enough, you've gone on long enough, and now it's my turn to rebut.

00:34:58.000 You say it's a matter of compassion.

00:34:59.000 I've already told you.

00:35:01.000 We can have compassion for these people.

00:35:03.000 We can have, excuse me, excuse me.

00:35:06.000 Thank you.

00:35:07.000 I let you finish.

00:35:08.000 You went on for a very long time.

00:35:09.000 I think it's fair if I get to rebut.

00:35:11.000 You talk about your position on Twitter, I talk about mine.

00:35:14.000 We're here to exchange.

00:35:15.000 I want to answer your claim, which is you keep asking this.

00:35:18.000 You keep asking this, you keep wondering aloud how it is that I think Americans are better or how I have this hyper nationalism, how I can't put myself in the shoes of these poor people who are coming to this country and they have no other options.

00:35:32.000 And I have never said anything to the contrary.

00:35:35.000 And I don't actually.

00:35:36.000 I really did.

00:35:37.000 I don't.

00:35:38.000 Well, let me explain myself.

00:35:39.000 I don't actually begrudge.

00:35:42.000 Anybody that breaks the law to come here.

00:35:44.000 I understand why they do it.

00:35:48.000 If I were in the same situation, I may do it. 1.00

00:35:50.000 Because if you're in Mexico and it's a broken, terrible country and you could take a little bit of a risky journey over to the United States and you could get your food stamps and you could get a nice public school and you could get a nice job and maybe get on your feet and become an American, I would take that risk. 1.00

00:36:05.000 And I understand that. 0.99

00:36:06.000 And I have compassion for that.

00:36:08.000 And we get why people do these things.

00:36:10.000 They're not bad people for doing them.

00:36:13.000 You said that if you were in the same position, you would do the same thing.

00:36:16.000 Probably myself as well.

00:36:18.000 This is where we get back to America first. 0.58

00:36:20.000 This is axiomatic. 0.94

00:36:21.000 This is something that it should just be pretty self evident that that is the perspective, that is the value, that is what is best for illegal aliens, that is what is best for foreign people of foreign countries. 0.71

00:36:35.000 And by the way, these people that are fleeing Mexico, we always start in the middle of the story where they have no other options and then they come here.

00:36:42.000 Their government has a responsibility to them too.

00:36:45.000 Their society failed them and has a responsibility to them.

00:36:49.000 Just because their society failed doesn't mean ours needs to pick up the slack.

00:36:52.000 Now, we can understand why people might do that.

00:36:55.000 We can understand and have compassion that, you know, of course it's very sad.

00:36:58.000 Of course the children are so poor and all of this.

00:37:02.000 Okay, let's put that over there on a back burner for a moment and let's consider the American position, which is that you have 300 million people in this country who are paying 40% of their income every year, who in many cases they have relatives who have fought and died in wars defending this country.

00:37:20.000 Who built the factories of this country?

00:37:22.000 And in many cases, wait, wait, wait, hey, hey, hey, no, no, we're getting it.

00:37:26.000 You mock nationalism, you mock the sacrifices.

00:37:30.000 Excuse me, I let you finish, I let you finish, I let you finish, we're almost done here.

00:37:36.000 You mock the sacrifices of our ancestors, of the people that built the country, as though that's a trivial detail, but it really matters, and here's why. 1.00

00:37:44.000 Because you want us to look at the interests of the illegal immigrants. 0.99

00:37:48.000 I understand that position, I understand that position, but we are looking after the interests of what is best for the people that are already here. 0.62

00:37:54.000 We can feel compassion. 0.95

00:37:56.000 It would be really great if they could come here legally and, you know, maybe they assimilate or whatever, but that's not what's happening. 0.91

00:38:03.000 They come here illegally. 0.98

00:38:04.000 They have no documentation. 1.00

00:38:05.000 We don't know who they are.

00:38:06.000 We don't know if they're working.

00:38:08.000 Many of the studies on this issue are flawed because we just don't know who's here.

00:38:12.000 And that represents intrinsically a threat, an existential threat to the safety of the American people.

00:38:18.000 And you say it hasn't affected you.

00:38:20.000 That's because you don't live in San Diego or Los Angeles and you're not one of the.

00:38:25.000 Okay.

00:38:25.000 You can go down the line, and the vast majority of these people are moving to New York, Illinois, California, and Texas.

00:38:31.000 So you're not bearing the brunt of it.

00:38:33.000 No, no.

00:38:34.000 Massachusetts was very, very far down the list.

00:38:38.000 Very, very anecdotal.

00:38:39.000 But if you're looking, 50% of DACA recipients are living in either California or Texas.

00:38:46.000 And you're lucky that you have not been adversely affected, or at least not to your knowledge, by that sort of thing because people were not looking after your interests as a tax paying American citizen and the child of tax paying American citizens.

00:38:59.000 That's the difference.

00:39:00.000 So, okay.

00:39:01.000 You good?

00:39:02.000 All right.

00:39:03.000 So, let's talk about whose interest it's in.

00:39:05.000 First of all, it's in your interest as a Christian to be benevolent to these people and to be self sacrificing to these people.

00:39:13.000 That's in your interest.

00:39:15.000 It's in your interest as a person to have a compassionate world that is able to forgive people and that is able to put aside the fact that they broke a law for people who didn't have the choice when they were coming here in the first place.

00:39:34.000 Furthermore, It's in your interest to have these people who are willing to work in this country and not be siphoning off the system without paying into the taxes because of the aforementioned economic arguments that I gave you.

00:39:49.000 And really, I get it.

00:39:51.000 I mean, my grandfather was in the military.

00:39:53.000 I have other family that's in the military.

00:39:55.000 I get it.

00:39:55.000 I love this country.

00:39:57.000 We have to keep it safe.

00:39:58.000 We need closed borders and we need to respect the law.

00:40:00.000 But the fact is, there's about 800,000 people who are living with anxiety because they don't know what is going to happen to them.

00:40:06.000 And you're saying, You know, we can't forgive them.

00:40:09.000 They have to go.

00:40:10.000 And we're going to have to send them back into the conditions that they left after they've created their lives for themselves here.

00:40:15.000 They've assimilated to American values.

00:40:17.000 And to me, I don't care at this point that they broke the law.

00:40:21.000 Look, I get it that they did, and it was bad.

00:40:23.000 They should have done it in the first place.

00:40:24.000 But now that they did, I mean, seriously, like, who actually cares? 0.54

00:40:28.000 And before we get off of this topic, like, I don't understand because, like, look, there are some people who genuinely care about this because it's a race issue.

00:40:38.000 And I'm not just saying about it on.

00:40:40.000 The alt right side, I'm talking about it on the alt left side as well.

00:40:44.000 Because there's people who want Hispanic people to come over here because they're Hispanic, because they're their family members.

00:40:49.000 And I get that.

00:40:50.000 I'm not putting a race onto this at all.

00:40:52.000 I'm talking about the specific people.

00:40:55.000 But when we're talking about people, too, there are other economic arguments that you can make for it as well.

00:41:00.000 I mean, I can give you another one, which is that a PhD, art carved in associate professor of economics at Stanford University, says the conventional wisdom says illegal immigrants take American jobs and lower American wages.

00:41:11.000 The conventional wisdom is wrong.

00:41:13.000 Because the law of comparative advantage says that we get more productive when we have more trading partners. 0.98

00:41:19.000 The arrival of undocumented workers with limited English skills frees up low skill American workers who can then specialize in tasks that require better English. 0.99

00:41:27.000 Here's another one Adam Davidson, author of It's the Economy for the New York Times Magazine, says it may seem intuitive that there is an increase in the supply of workers, the ones who are here already will make less money or lose their jobs. 0.99

00:41:41.000 Don't just increase the supply of labor, though, they simultaneously increase demand for it.

00:41:46.000 They get wages, they earn rent for apartments, they eat food, they get haircuts, they buy cell phones.

00:41:51.000 The meaning that means that they are more jobs building apartments, selling food, giving haircuts, and dispatching trucks to move those phones. 0.93

00:41:58.000 Immigrants increase the size of the overall population, which means they increase the size of the economy. 0.93

00:42:03.000 Logically, if immigrants were stealing jobs, so would every young person leaving school and entering the job market. 1.00

00:42:08.000 Countries should become poorer as they get larger. 0.99

00:42:11.000 In reality, of course, the opposite happens.

00:42:14.000 So, what I'm saying is that.

00:42:16.000 There really is no strong argument that the economy has been hurt by people.

00:42:21.000 I'm not saying overall legal immigrants. 1.00

00:42:23.000 Overall, you could definitely make an argument for it.

00:42:25.000 But I'm saying for people who are paying into the system, it's not hurting anything.

00:42:29.000 It's not hurting me.

00:42:30.000 It's not hurting you.

00:42:31.000 And there have been one or two cases.

00:42:33.000 Well, and I shouldn't even say one thing.

00:42:34.000 There have been several cases where people have committed crimes.

00:42:40.000 And they are.

00:42:40.000 And then if we catch them, we deport them.

00:42:43.000 But 800,000 people? 0.80

00:42:45.000 Yeah.

00:42:46.000 Come on.

00:42:46.000 It's just unrealistic to me to think that you're going to call in the National Guard to go chase down people throughout the streets of California and Texas when you could literally just say to them, Look, we don't appreciate that you did this, obviously, and you did register, so we want to give you a path to citizenship.

00:43:02.000 We want to make you become an American citizen, maybe have them serve in the military or something if you want that to happen.

00:43:08.000 But at the end of the day, I mean, I'm just saying we shouldn't look at these people as if they're less than us because they came here under illegal circumstances.

00:43:20.000 And because they've shown that they are good people, most of them, that are willing to come into this country and assimilate to our values.

00:43:26.000 So to me, I look at them and I say, all right, we're going to have compassion for you, and, you know, that's what it is.

00:43:35.000 Yeah.

00:43:36.000 You have this sort of juvenile argument, and I don't even mean that in a pejorative way, but just in a descriptive way, which is your argument seems to be, well, I don't know, I can't find any reasons.

00:43:46.000 What's the big deal?

00:43:47.000 I mean, it's okay, you broke the law, but yeah, whatever.

00:43:50.000 I mean, I am telling you, I am giving you many, many, many reasons why this is problematic in terms of principle, in terms of.

00:43:59.000 I've given you many.

00:44:01.000 Hey, excuse me, you know, you keep interrupting me.

00:44:04.000 I keep letting you finish, and then you keep interrupting me.

00:44:07.000 It really speaks, I think, a lot to your argument that you can't allow me to finish a sentence because, of course, it would completely bankrupt everything you have to say, which is very substanceless if I'm being very honest.

00:44:17.000 You bring up the economic argument, which I said from the first statement was not my argument.

00:44:24.000 My argument is not that they should be deported because of an economic reason.

00:44:29.000 That was never my argument.

00:44:31.000 That is not even 1% of my argument.

00:44:33.000 It's not even.

00:44:35.000 The whole argument is about American interests.

00:44:38.000 I told you what the argument is.

00:44:39.000 The American government.

00:44:41.000 Has to enforce the laws at any cost, at any cost fiscally, at any cost in terms of compassion.

00:44:48.000 It has to enforce the laws.

00:44:50.000 And I don't think you believe it's funny because you're an individualist.

00:44:55.000 You're a follower of Ayn Rand.

00:44:56.000 You're an objectivist.

00:44:58.000 And yet it seems, it seems, so please don't jump in really quickly and say, no, no, that's not true.

00:45:04.000 It seems as though, okay, there it is.

00:45:06.000 It seems as though you don't believe in personal responsibility because you believe in this country where we have all these 800,000 DACA recipients, we have all these illegal immigrants.

00:45:16.000 And it's supposed to just be waived.

00:45:19.000 They don't bear any responsibility.

00:45:21.000 It's really a tremendous burden on them that we have to enforce the laws, that they're here and they put down roots and they have such a nice life, and then the big bad government comes and takes them away.

00:45:32.000 DACA stands for Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals.

00:45:36.000 It says deferred.

00:45:38.000 Deferred does not mean halted, it doesn't mean ceased, it doesn't mean stopped, it means deferred, put until a later date.

00:45:45.000 So everybody that came here that isn't illegal understands exactly what they are choosing.

00:45:51.000 When they come across the border without doing the paperwork, they are choosing to do that.

00:45:55.000 They have responsibility.

00:45:57.000 You wouldn't say that a murderer should go free because, well, they killed people, but now they're not going to kill anyone anymore.

00:46:03.000 Or a bank robber robbed a bank, but the money got reconstituted, and he's not going to rob banks anymore, so he shouldn't serve a prison fine.

00:46:11.000 A big component of enforcing the law is an element of moral hazard.

00:46:15.000 And you talk about compassion.

00:46:17.000 Let's talk about compassion. 1.00

00:46:19.000 The people that come to this country over the southern border illegally, it is a very dangerous.

00:46:24.000 Very perilous journey.

00:46:25.000 Depending on the statistics that you look at, if you look at the Huffington Post, 80% of women are raped when they come across the southern border illegally.

00:46:34.000 If you look at Amnesty International, that number is 60%.

00:46:38.000 So these are two liberal categories here, and we're between 60 and 80% of women are getting raped on the way over. 1.00

00:46:44.000 When we look at illegal immigrants and we say, you can stay, yeah, you know, who cares? 1.00

00:46:50.000 We'll have you here. 1.00

00:46:51.000 We'll have closed borders later, but in the meantime, you can stay.

00:46:54.000 This creates moral hazard, and more people. 1.00

00:46:57.000 Will come from Central America into this country illegally and they'll get raped and it will be a very dangerous journey. 1.00

00:47:04.000 So, if you really have compassion for these people, you will deport them because number one, they'll stop coming here. 0.96

00:47:11.000 And that is actually better for them, believe it or not, because they don't put themselves in the shadows.

00:47:15.000 They don't put themselves in this bad situation.

00:47:18.000 Number two, we don't take the best and brightest.

00:47:20.000 You think of all the people that come across the border, these are people that take the initiative.

00:47:24.000 These are people that, through a certain element of natural selection, opted to take this perilous.

00:47:30.000 Risky journey and made it, and they're able to make money and everything else. 0.99

00:47:33.000 We're keeping those people in their native countries so they can make their native countries better. 0.99

00:47:39.000 You know, imagine if the founder of Uber was in his native country.

00:47:43.000 He'd probably be making it very nice.

00:47:45.000 He'd probably be making it a lot wealthier and a lot better in many ways.

00:47:49.000 So, I mean, additionally, on top of my argument that the federal government's number one and only priority is to enforce American law, no matter the cost, no matter the circumstances, on top of that, even if we're using your Evaluation, 0.99

00:48:03.000 even if we're using your standard, the most compassionate thing that we can do, although it might be difficult for the 800,000 that are here, would be far more compassionate for the hundreds of thousands and millions that attempt this journey and for the people in these countries that are deprived of their best human capital when there's a brain drain of people coming into a first world country that borders theirs. 0.62

00:48:24.000 And, you know, there you go. 0.74

00:48:27.000 Okay, so first of all, you're using sources of all illegal immigrants, which.

00:48:33.000 Is not the law abiding ones that I'm defending here, the 800,000.

00:48:36.000 So, first of all, that argument aside, it is not playing in this debate.

00:48:40.000 Second of all, you can't prove that these people would have done anything of substance within their home countries because they don't have the opportunity that America afforded them.

00:48:47.000 Finally, just to summarize this overall debate here, because I've listened to your arguments and there's literally just one, and it comes down to this.

00:48:54.000 You stated that it's not an economic reason why we don't want them here.

00:48:59.000 You stated that at any cost, whether it's sacrificing people's social security money or whatever it costs the billions of dollars it would pay to taxpayers.

00:49:07.000 To round up all of these people and send them back.

00:49:09.000 And you've stated at whatever sacrifice of our morals, you would be willing to do this.

00:49:13.000 Because at the end of the day, it is about one thing for you respecting laws.

00:49:19.000 However, we make the day of laws.

00:49:22.000 And that means nothing to you.

00:49:24.000 Because you're so stuck on this kind of law that you don't understand that there's people behind the law.

00:49:34.000 And I mean, that's just what it comes down to.

00:49:37.000 This is so wacky, but I mean, you're okay.

00:49:41.000 So if you're wait, wait, let me here's why because my central argument, which you've recognized, and I think you haven't done a straw man, which is good, which is that we need to uphold the laws.

00:49:53.000 Your counter to my central claim is well, we make the laws, therefore we can change them.

00:49:59.000 But, I mean, that's akin to saying if somebody robs a bank, we should make it legal to rob banks and grandfather him in.

00:50:09.000 These people chose to break the law.

00:50:12.000 These people chose to break the law, and we are grandfathering them in to a hypothetical other law that nobody got elected to pass, by the way.

00:50:20.000 I mean, you say we make the laws.

00:50:22.000 Who's we?

00:50:23.000 Because DACA was passed.

00:50:25.000 Well, actually, the DREAM Act was shot down in the House.

00:50:28.000 The DREAM Act was shot down in the Senate.

00:50:30.000 The DREAM Act never got through the legislature.

00:50:34.000 So the people really didn't.

00:50:35.000 The people never approved the DREAM Act.

00:50:37.000 It was Barack Obama who unconstitutionally.

00:50:40.000 Pass DACA through an executive fiat, and then that just got rescinded.

00:50:44.000 So, and then on top of that, Donald Trump got elected president with a GOP House and Senate.

00:50:50.000 There is virtually no mandate in the House or the Senate to pass a law enshrining the rights of these people to stay here that were unconstitutional to begin with.

00:50:58.000 So you say that the people that are here make the laws, or we make the laws.

00:51:04.000 Well, when this act originally went around in the House, it was shot down by the People's Chamber, which is the House of Representatives.

00:51:11.000 And in 2016, Donald Trump got elected on a platform of rescinding DACA on day one.

00:51:17.000 So, you know, just who is we that is going to change the law and grandfather in 800,000 people?

00:51:24.000 Again, that we don't even know who they are.

00:51:26.000 So, first of all, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, and even Trump have expressed their concern and compassion for these people, and several other senators have passed bills.

00:51:36.000 But the problem is, our House and Senate is so ineffective, even with a Republican majority, we can't even get health care fixed.

00:51:44.000 But when it comes down to it, I mean, this is people's lives that we're dealing with here.

00:51:47.000 What?

00:51:48.000 And it's not just our lives, it's not just the lives of American people, it's their lives too.

00:51:52.000 And I'm not saying that there's any life that's more or less valuable.

00:51:55.000 But when it comes down to it, I mean, you've said it's the law.

00:51:59.000 Who makes the law?

00:52:00.000 The representatives make the law. 0.98

00:52:02.000 Who elects the representatives?

00:52:05.000 We elect the representatives.

00:52:06.000 So if I call my representative and I say to them, hey, Elizabeth Warren, who I despise on every other issue, this is something that I think you should be fighting for.

00:52:16.000 Hey, Ed Markey, this is something I think you should be fighting for.

00:52:19.000 And it's coming from the people.

00:52:21.000 And to me, like, even Trump says that he has compassion for these kids.

00:52:25.000 Trump is not you.

00:52:26.000 Trump is not this argument.

00:52:27.000 Trump is enforcing the law.

00:52:28.000 He's enforcing.

00:52:30.000 DACA by rescinding it, but Trump is not you.

00:52:33.000 Trump is saying he has compassion.

00:52:34.000 Does that mean that we should have legislation for some of these people?

00:52:37.000 Yeah, I think we do.

00:52:40.000 When Trump was running, he said, Do you have compassion for the dreamers?

00:52:44.000 He said he had compassion for our dreamers, for Americans.

00:52:47.000 And he was elected.

00:52:48.000 He may have gone back on what he said during the election, but when people went to the ballot box, and that is how we hear the voice of the people Vox Populae, Vox Dei, the voice of the people is the voice of God.

00:53:00.000 When we went to the ballot box on November 8th, we voted for Donald Trump.

00:53:04.000 Who said rescind Doc on day one?

00:53:06.000 And my central claim is uphold the law.

00:53:09.000 You seem to be conceding we should uphold the law, but let's make it so that that law doesn't exist.

00:53:15.000 But when those people came here and when those people were kept here, both of those actions were illegal.

00:53:22.000 And to grandfather them in sort of defeats the purpose of having a law in the first place.

00:53:27.000 Why would you pass laws?

00:53:29.000 Why would you have legislation if it could be overruled by the president and then after it gets so bad that we have to make Some kind of special accommodation, even though the people voted to get rid of it anyways, we're going to say, well, the House majority leader or the Speaker of the House and the House minority leader can abrogate that anyway.

00:53:49.000 I mean, it's just, and I think you know this, it just doesn't work.

00:53:53.000 It just doesn't jive.

00:53:55.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:53:56.000 We have compassion.

00:53:57.000 We agree on that. 0.64

00:53:59.000 It was unconstitutional.

00:54:00.000 We agree on that.

00:54:00.000 It should be rescinded.

00:54:01.000 Where you seem to differ is that the law should have never been this way or these people should be grandfathered in.

00:54:08.000 But that, I mean, that's just.

00:54:09.000 Something that doesn't make any sense if you want to have a law that is respected by people from south of the border. 0.75

00:54:17.000 And again, explain to me, I'm asking you this explain to me how you have compassion for these people from these other countries when what you are doing, and this is exactly what happens. 0.86

00:54:28.000 When you keep DACA recipients here and you don't deport them, you are telling Central America, if you come here illegally, we won't deport you. 0.84

00:54:37.000 Because when you keep them here, I mean, that's of course what they're going to see. 0.98

00:54:40.000 So, how do you have compassion?

00:54:42.000 When you're incentivizing and necessarily through a priori reasoning, incentivizing more of those people to make a very perilous, dangerous journey?

00:54:51.000 How is that compassionate?

00:54:53.000 I'm not incentivizing anything.

00:54:54.000 And in fact, we need to have closed borders. 0.89

00:54:56.000 And I'm saying if we have closed borders, we won't have legal immigration.

00:54:59.000 Therefore, we can make, in this case, the exception so that we don't need to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to go eject hundreds of thousands of people that we should be having compassion for.

00:55:12.000 We made an exception.

00:55:13.000 We made an exception in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million.

00:55:17.000 We made an exception under George W. Bush when he brought in 4 million illegals in his first five years.

00:55:23.000 We made an exception under Obama with DACA after it failed to pass the House and then he gave amnesty to an additional 3 million.

00:55:29.000 Republicans and Democrats can both get behind measures of compassion.

00:55:33.000 I don't see where you're getting off on this.

00:55:35.000 I'm not a Republican or a Democrat because, in case you haven't noticed, that's the same party.

00:55:40.000 I represent, and Donald Trump represents, The voice and the interests of the American people, not the globalist monoparty that wants cheap labor for different reasons.

00:55:50.000 Why did the Democrats want DACA and illegal immigrants to stay here?

00:55:56.000 I'll tell you why. 0.75

00:55:57.000 Because in 2016, 66% of Hispanics went for Hillary Clinton.

00:56:02.000 According to Pew Research, 68% of Hispanics opposed the wall.

00:56:07.000 According to Pew Research, 78% of Hispanics support amnesty for illegal immigrants.

00:56:14.000 The Latino electorate.

00:56:16.000 Because of illegal immigration, and DACA in particular has grown in Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Texas, Colorado, and Georgia.

00:56:23.000 These are all battleground states.

00:56:26.000 And if you look, this is the holy grail of it all, Will.

00:56:30.000 Pew Research 2012 75% of Hispanics support a big government.

00:56:36.000 That's 75%.

00:56:38.000 81% for first generation Hispanics, 72% for second, 58% for third generation, 41%.

00:56:46.000 Is what the public at large wants with big government. 0.64

00:56:49.000 So even third generation Hispanics are a fifth more likely to support big government. 0.86

00:56:54.000 That's why Democrats want amnesty.

00:56:56.000 It's not because they have compassion.

00:56:58.000 Republicans don't want illegal immigrants here because they're compassionate. 0.98

00:57:01.000 It's because it's cheap labor. 0.99

00:57:03.000 Because you don't have to pay for Social Security.

00:57:05.000 You don't have to pay for Medicare, at least not when you pay people.

00:57:09.000 You can pay them with cash and then you don't have to pay taxes on that.

00:57:11.000 You don't have to account for all these obscene regulations. 0.99

00:57:15.000 That's why the parties want cheap labor. 0.85

00:57:17.000 And you. 0.97

00:57:18.000 Buy into it. 1.00

00:57:19.000 You buy into the propaganda where they are convincing the American people they should be for this because the poor immigrants. 0.98

00:57:26.000 But if you actually look into it, if you actually cared enough, you'd see that they're incentivizing a horrible, miserable life for these people in the shadows, and it's to serve corporate and political interests. 1.00

00:57:38.000 And you're just the sucker, I guess. 0.99

00:57:40.000 You're just the useful fool who feels, and again, I don't say that in totally a pejorative way, but you feel bad for them. 1.00

00:57:49.000 Because they propagandized you to do that. 0.99

00:57:52.000 They fooled you because you naively wanted what's best for these illegal immigrants. 1.00

00:57:58.000 And that's a noble thing.

00:57:59.000 It's a noble thing to be compassionate for other people, it's a Christian thing. 0.96

00:58:03.000 But they took advantage of you, and they took advantage of a lot of other people for their own benefit.

00:58:10.000 So I'll just make my closing point, which is that my values, and I have been influenced with Ayn Rand, but that does not conflict with any of my values or my faith.

00:58:19.000 And this is what it comes down to, Nick.

00:58:21.000 Which is that you're using a lot of peer research polling, which, first of all, is not polling illegal immigrants to find out what they actually want.

00:58:28.000 But I can tell you a lot of people who I know that are Hispanic who came from Cuba or places under regimes that were oppressive and undemocratic and unconservative or liberal regimes, Marxist regimes, which are coming to this country because they want a free society that gives them the ability to keep what they earn.

00:58:49.000 And unfortunately, it's not totally the case at this point, but we're working towards it.

00:58:53.000 You can't give me any information that says a person will automatically vote a certain way because of their race.

00:59:00.000 And if you do, that's racist because you can't generalize entire people like that.

00:59:04.000 Bingo.

00:59:05.000 That's the bingo card.

00:59:06.000 Is it really?

00:59:07.000 Fantastic.

00:59:07.000 Yeah.

00:59:08.000 Because it is.

00:59:09.000 It's a fact.

00:59:10.000 Making generalizations about people without separating them into the individuals is racism.

00:59:15.000 That's what it comes down to.

00:59:16.000 So when you're giving me any of these arguments, we're not incentivizing people to come if they know they can't even get in here because we have closed borders.

00:59:23.000 So that's no argument to me. 0.94

00:59:25.000 So why not, and this is my final point, why not we close the border so that there's no illegal immigration and then we let these people stay?

00:59:33.000 The people who are working and contributing members of society, not the criminals, and we'll deport those.

00:59:39.000 And anybody else who does not want to come forward to be a part of this can be deported as well.

00:59:43.000 And we're not incentivizing them to stay in the shadows.

00:59:46.000 We're incentivizing them to come out of the shadows and to become members of society, full Americans.

00:59:52.000 That's my position.

00:59:53.000 Okay.

00:59:54.000 Well, a good final point.

00:59:55.000 I'll make my final point and then we'll call it an episode.

00:59:58.000 It's been about an hour, so I'll let you go after that.

01:00:01.000 But my final point, my final retort would be this.

01:00:06.000 If you look into the illegal immigration situation, you have two parties, two major political parties that have been pushing for this for 50 years, since the 1965 Hart Cellar Immigration Act. 0.86

01:00:19.000 They've been pushing for immigration from the third world. 0.92

01:00:22.000 And you look at why they're doing it. 0.87

01:00:24.000 You look at why Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell, and Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama are on the same team on this one.

01:00:33.000 You don't have to look any further than the data, than these statistics, which is that.

01:00:37.000 The people that we're bringing in, and you bring up Cuba, but a million of them, that's 73% of DACA recipients, far more for illegal immigrants as a total, are Mexicans.

01:00:49.000 And you can chalk it up to culture, you can chalk it up to circumstance or history or geographic determinism.

01:00:55.000 It doesn't have to be racial determinism.

01:00:57.000 But these immigrants that we're bringing over, they support bigger government.

01:01:00.000 They support bigger government. 1.00

01:01:02.000 They don't support gun rights.

01:01:03.000 They don't support civil liberties.

01:01:06.000 They have an agenda which is contrary to what this nation was founded on.

01:01:09.000 And that is an agenda that hurts the American people. 0.80

01:01:12.000 And serves the cosmopolitan, internationalist, rootless transnational elite at the expense of all of us.

01:01:20.000 And I would just, in my final point, I would encourage anybody who has compassion for these people to look into it, please. 0.64

01:01:29.000 What we are incentivizing, what is the life of an illegal immigrant, and why are both parties incentivizing more people to live the same life?

01:01:38.000 I don't have the same priorities in terms of my compassion, but if that's If that's your opinion, that we should be looking after their interests, I think there's an argument to be made there, too.

01:01:48.000 Beyond that, my central claim is the American government serves the American people.

01:01:53.000 Donald Trump was elected to represent us, not the world.

01:01:56.000 And that's how we should govern all policy, including immigration policy.

01:02:00.000 But, Will, it's been a pleasure debating you.

01:02:04.000 I know we go at it on Twitter, and it can get a little bit heated.

01:02:07.000 But, like I said, and like we said before we started, I respect you.

01:02:11.000 I like you as a person.

01:02:12.000 And this sort of thing is important.

01:02:15.000 And it was good to have you on.

01:02:17.000 It was really a pleasure.

01:02:17.000 Thanks for being such a good sport and coming on.

01:02:19.000 I think it was really fun, really enjoyable.

01:02:21.000 Likewise.

01:02:22.000 Thank you.

01:02:23.000 All right.

01:02:24.000 Well, that's it for us tonight.

01:02:27.000 Let me just jump over.

01:02:30.000 Let me get rid of that real quick.

01:02:32.000 Where is that?

01:02:35.000 There it is.

01:02:37.000 Okay, so that's the debate, folks.

01:02:38.000 That is.

01:02:40.000 Boom.

01:02:41.000 That was DACA Demolition. 1.00

01:02:42.000 I hope it was everything that everybody wanted.

01:02:46.000 It was high energy, it was contentious.

01:02:48.000 There was never a moment of silence.

01:02:50.000 It wasn't a boring, lame, you know, spurgy debate like some of the other stuff.

01:02:55.000 I hope it was fun.

01:02:56.000 We covered basically all the material.

01:02:57.000 We didn't really go topic by topic, but I think it gelled pretty smoothly.

01:03:01.000 I think people can make the determination whether or not I won or Will Nardi won.

01:03:07.000 I'll be posting a poll.

01:03:08.000 I will be posting a poll on Twitter, and you guys can vote who won the DACA demolition.

01:03:16.000 And we'll go from there.

01:03:17.000 But that's the show, folks.

01:03:19.000 That's America First.

01:03:20.000 Remember, we are on the air every Monday through Friday at 7 p.m. Central, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.

01:03:26.000 We'll be on YouTube as always from now on.

01:03:29.000 You can follow me on Twitter at Nick J. Fuentes.

01:03:32.000 You can follow me on Facebook.com slash Nick J. Fuentes.

01:03:35.000 Periscope is at Nick J. Fuentes as well.

01:03:38.000 You can find all of my content at Nicholas J. Fuentes.com. 0.98

01:03:42.000 You can also deposit some shekels on my website as well if I'm doing a particularly good job at smashing the rootless transnational elite. 1.00

01:03:51.000 But that's the show. 1.00

01:03:52.000 That's America First.

01:03:53.000 I'm Nicholas J. Fuentes.

01:03:55.000 It's been a real pleasure, folks.

01:03:56.000 We'll have to do it again some other time.

01:03:59.000 But that's it.

01:03:59.000 We will see you tomorrow.

01:04:01.000 Have a great rest of your evening.

01:04:03.000 And as always, thank you so much for watching.

01:04:05.000 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:04:09.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our credo.

01:04:16.000 It's going to be only America first.

01:04:21.000 America first. 0.99

01:04:25.000 The American people will come first once again.

01:04:30.000 With respect to respect. 0.96

01:04:49.000 It's going to be only America first. 0.95

01:04:54.000 America first. 0.98

America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - September 13, 2017

DACA Demolition Debate feat. Will Nardi | America First Ep. 9

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript