00:01:47.000And like I said last time, you have to separate the ideas from the person.
00:01:51.000I will respect you as a person, but I still think you're full of something else.
00:01:54.000So, in any case, for my opening statement, I just want to tell you about a Mexican family that once wanted to come to America for a better life.
00:02:05.000They came, they assimilated to American values and had children, and eventually that child sat right here in front of me today.
00:02:14.000So brainwashed that he believes everybody of his ethnicity to be a part of his clan or family.
00:02:20.000And if that is really the case, then he right now is turning his back on hundreds of thousands of his family members that will soon be uprooted and forced back into the conditions that caused them to come here in the first place.
00:02:46.000Okay, looks like we're good on the sound.
00:02:49.000All right, so my opening statement I have several arguments, and I know many people were worried or they were questioning how I would approach this issue.
00:02:57.000Many people talked to me, they gave me articles, they gave me statistics, even my mom.
00:03:02.000My mom weighed in and tried to tell me, you know, some things I could point out.
00:03:06.000My mom is a little bit more sympathetic to this cause, but I settled on the number one issue, which actually, coincidentally.
00:03:14.000You mean your mom supports the DACA Dreamers?
00:03:17.000No, but she, I don't think she is totally in line with my thinking on this.
00:03:21.000But besides the point, I'm debating, not my mom.
00:03:24.000The number one argument, the number one argument, the only one that matters, really, the only thing that's important about the DACA debate is America first.
00:03:34.000The American government, the responsibility of the American government is to protect the American people, protect the lives of the American people, protect the property of the American people, and protect the liberty of the American people.
00:03:50.000Every argument that I've heard so far in support of the DACA program or in support of the quote unquote dreamers has implicitly or explicitly been an argument in favor of our government taking the responsibility of the welfare of alien children, of foreign children, over the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of this government's own people.
00:04:12.000Now, we live in a world with 196 sovereign governments, and it seems that every single one is content to look after its own people except.
00:04:36.000I mean, I stand for protecting American interests with closed borders and a safe vetting process that will allow immigrants to legally come here.
00:04:44.000And, you know, when it comes to the DACA program, I recognize that as unconstitutional.
00:04:51.000But at this point in time, you have 800,000 immigrants who are registered on DACA, illegal immigrants, granted, and they are here within the United States.
00:05:02.000I believe that Mexico has a responsibility because of them coming here, absolutely, because 78% of those immigrants are from Mexico, even though 22% are from elsewhere.
00:05:11.000But even just focusing on Mexico right now, aside from DACA, there's a huge illegal immigration problem over something like 12 million, 13 million, I've seen in some estimates of illegal immigrants within the United States.
00:05:23.000And Mexico absolutely has a responsibility to respect our borders, and they should be paying a recompense in some form that would have to be debated to fix our broken system.
00:05:34.000Right now, however, the expensive and resource heavy cost of deporting over 1.3 million DACA registered immigrants is unrealistic and cruel to the once children who are now working members of our society.
00:05:49.000And I don't care who you are or what beliefs that you have.
00:05:53.000But it serves everyone's self interest to live in a compassionate world.
00:05:58.000All right, so I'm hearing a couple of arguments here.
00:06:00.000I'm hearing essentially two arguments, the first of which is that the cost of deporting these people, I think we agree and I think it's fair to concede that we both believe DACA is unconstitutional and should be rescinded.
00:06:14.000The main argument now is what is to be done, what determination will be made about the 800,000 DACA recipients in the country today.
00:06:24.000Now, you are saying that it is too expensive.
00:06:27.000The cost, the fiscal burden of deporting these people is too high for it to be worth it.
00:06:42.000So if you're talking about 800,000 immigrants, and I'm just talking registered ones, the unregistered ones, the 1.3 million who were eligible for the DACA program are going to have to be as well.
00:06:53.000So, and the rest of the millions and millions of ones that hid in the shadows instead of coming into the light and trying to do this in a process that we gave them.
00:07:02.000So, my question to you is if this is going to be serving American interests, are we going to be having taxpayers spend billions of dollars to remove, not just billions of dollars, but police forces, military forces, whatever you want to do to capture all these illegal immigrants?
00:07:18.000Are you going to have taxpayers pay for that?
00:07:21.000Yes, because in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the framers.
00:07:26.000Laid out very specifically what the House of Representatives is allowed constitutionally to appropriate taxpayer money for.
00:07:34.000One of those items is the enforcement of the law.
00:07:37.000Probably the most important, many would argue, item in Article I, Section 8 is the enforcement of our laws, more specifically of our border laws.
00:07:46.000So, you know, if we're going to look at the fiscal budget for 2017, I would say, number one, before we spend money on Medicare, before we spend money on Social Security, before we spend money on any of the crazy things that this government spends money on, I would say, before any of that, yes.
00:08:02.000You mean all of the other people who paid into a system their entire lives?
00:08:50.000You said that it costs $10,000 to deport an illegal immigrant, and I'm telling you, and I'm asking you, if it costs more than twice that much to educate the average pupil, and you look, and foreign born Mexicans in this country, 10% of foreign born Mexican women are having children, and their fertility rate is upwards of 2.1, 2.3, 2.5, how do you explain how it would not be worth it to deport these people for 10 grand?
00:09:16.000When they can cost upwards of $20,000 or $30,000 or sometimes $60,000 in public services.
00:09:37.000What happens when people go out of the public school system?
00:09:40.000They now get a job or they die or they go on to some sort of a welfare system, something like that.
00:09:46.000But the case with all of the people who were registered with DACA, the 800,000 people are all either in school, in a university, or they are working and contributing members of society.
00:09:58.000So they are not siphoning our entire system.
00:10:02.000And I'm not excluding illegal immigrants.
00:10:04.000I absolutely understand the problem with illegal immigrants on our system.
00:10:07.000But when you're talking about statistics, there's a big difference between people who are working and paying taxes into the system and people who are hiding in the shadows, not paying taxes, whether or not, You know, they're actually doing jobs that are really low wage or whatever, you know, that's against our laws.
00:10:23.000The second point is, and I have all these kinds of statistics.
00:10:27.000So, first of all, Maria Ekanagi, a PhD, a senior fellow at the Income and Benefits Policy Center at the Urban Institute, quote, about half of the workers ages 18 to 64 without a high school diploma are immigrants.
00:10:43.000We know that many of these immigrants are unauthorized and do not speak English well.
00:10:48.000As such, they tend to work in different occupations than U.S. born workers, often occupations that require little interaction with the public, that do not require licensing, and that do not require supervisory skills.
00:10:59.000So, we're talking farming, service, sanitation jobs, things like that.
00:11:03.000The number of U.S. born workers with no college education has declined by almost 5 million since 2007, according to an analysis of census data.
00:11:12.000That means fewer U.S. born workers are competing for jobs requiring less education, the kind of immigrants usually get.
00:11:19.000Are replacing, not displacing, U.S. born workers.
00:11:23.000First of all, the trend should continue.
00:11:25.000Of the top 10 occupations with the most projected employment growth, eight do not require a high school diploma, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
00:11:32.000So, regardless of the fact that they're coming into this country and they are working, they're not taking jobs that Americans want.
00:11:39.000They're taking jobs that no one wants, and they are contributing and they're paying taxes to society.
00:11:43.000So, to try to use a statistic to say that they're siphoning leeches off of the system is inaccurate because you're grouping in people who are working with millions of others who are not.
00:11:52.000I never said that they were leeches and that they weren't working.
00:12:00.000I think you're taking a straw man argument that many have made before, but an argument which I'm not making.
00:12:05.000The argument that I'm making for the deportation of these people is not a fiscal one.
00:12:09.000It's not because they're taking jobs, although they are.
00:12:12.000It's not because they don't pay as much as they take in public services, which they are.
00:12:17.000It has a lot more to do with does this government enforce the laws?
00:12:20.000Does this government enforce the laws and does it look after its people?
00:12:23.000What I was responding to purely, what I was responding to singularly, In terms of the fiscal, in terms of the finances, is the $10,000 that it costs to deport a person.
00:12:34.000And I am saying that if you look at public services, if you look at the most important thing that they consume, probably the primary thing that any one of these DACA people in particular would be consuming is public education.
00:12:46.000And if you look at the eligibility for DACA, these are people that had to be under the age of 31 by June 2012.
00:12:53.000They had to have come to the U.S. under the age of 16, and they must have lived in the U.S. since 2007.
00:13:09.000So, probably most of them are in the public school system.
00:13:13.000They are taking public resources, and you can argue if they're paying taxes or not, but the very fact of them being in school, they're drawing out more money than it costs to deport them.
00:13:23.000And again, we're not saying that they should be deported because they cost money, but it is to say that it does not actually cost money if you're looking at the present value of an illegal immigrant.
00:13:32.000Nick, that's an entirely different matter, but I don't know about you.
00:13:36.000I haven't seen too many 25 year old high school students in the public school system, first of all.
00:13:41.000Second of all, you cannot use a statistical generalization of all illegal immigrants to talk about what a person who's working is paying into the system.
00:13:50.000I mean, you can even talk about the co founder of Uber, who was a refugee who was originally going in through the same welfare system as everybody else, who's now contributing millions of dollars in taxes every year.
00:14:01.000Again, this is an individual argument, and you have to separate the 800,000 people.
00:14:07.000Who are registered with DACA from the millions who are not, that we cannot discuss.
00:14:11.000And you're using statistics that are broadly generalizing all of them.
00:14:14.000So, first of all, you cannot prove that they are taking more money than they are giving back.
00:14:19.000It's probably true because most of them are not making thousands and thousands of dollars a year.
00:14:24.000Okay, well, you've just conceded that they're taking more money than they're putting in.
00:14:32.000It's probably true that most of these people, because the average age of when they came to this country was six years old, when it started in 2007.
00:14:39.000Today, 10 years later, most of them are going to be 16 years old, which means they are still in the public school system, and then there's those who are not in the public school system.
00:14:47.000That being the case, you have people who are either in school or working.
00:14:51.000Same thing as any other American who's also in school or working.
00:15:11.000Number two, they were working and contributing and paying property taxes and income taxes, and they had been doing that for a long time.
00:15:18.000And their parents had been doing that, and their parents before them.
00:15:21.000So, the fact that you can compare somebody who rolls up here without a visa, without the proper paperwork, not having any experience in this country, their ancestors, their forefathers never built anything in this country, and say that somehow it's comparable when they come here and they take and take and take with both hands from our public school system, which you conceded because you said they're coming in here when they're six years old.
00:15:44.000They're 16 now, so they're still in the public school system.
00:16:23.000And when I say present value, that isn't.
00:16:25.000I know you think I'm some cold analyst who has no heart for people in a bad situation, but I'm referring to the fact, the accounting principle, that the present value of their contribution to the gross domestic product in the long term is a deficit on the country.
00:16:41.000And you bring up the founder of Uber, who's a refugee.
00:16:45.000Let me ask you this Do you honestly believe that when you have 800,000 people coming over here illegally as children, that these are all major tech entrepreneurs, that these are Alexander Hamiltons and Albert Einsteins that are Pouring across the border from Mexico?
00:17:01.000You're offering a straw man argument, first of all.
00:17:04.000And second of all, I'm not even touching any of the moral arguments.
00:17:07.000I'm not touching any of the emotional arguments.
00:17:09.000I'm just strictly talking about what is the facts of the situation right now.
00:17:14.000And you have people who are showing that they are working into the system, that they are contributing members of the society.
00:17:20.000And first of all, I mean, I am considered, in your view, a siphon of society.
00:17:25.000I went through the public school system.
00:17:28.000And I have not paid thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes and property taxes or anything like that.
00:17:33.000And there are Americans who will never do that, who will be beneficiaries of the welfare state for the rest of their lives.
00:17:39.000My point is to say that right now we have a group of people who are working and willing to be members of our society, not just members, but law abiding members of our society.
00:17:49.000And I see no reason why people should be uprooted, especially in some cases when they have birthright citizenship and you're going to have to separate the families.
00:17:58.000I see no reason why people should be uprooted because what?
00:18:03.000Their parents haven't paid into the system.
00:18:05.000Well, if their parents came with them and they're working now, then they are paying into the system.
00:18:09.000It's just, it's the fact of the matter.
00:18:10.000It's no different from any other immigrant that comes into this country legally and goes into the public school system.
00:18:15.000The only difference is that they didn't do the paperwork.
00:18:23.000But I think there comes a time, like I said before, where you need to treat the situation with both compassion and realism.
00:18:30.000Compassion for the kids who were six years old when they came over here and it was not their decision, and realism for the fact that.
00:18:36.000If you're going to be spending billions of dollars of writing throughout all the United States to try to find people who are good people, who are working in jobs that you don't even want to take, I mean, that just makes no sense to me.
00:18:47.000I will make a little bit of sense of it for you, Will.
00:19:20.000The president of Mexico has compassion for Mexicans.
00:19:24.000The former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, has compassion for Mexicans, or at least he says he does.
00:19:31.000Nobody has compassion for Americans anymore.
00:19:34.000We're all expected to open our doors and open our hearts to every poor, sad person that washes up on our shores.
00:19:42.000But the people in this country that have been paying taxes all their lives, the people in this country that have been paying into the system for 50 or 60 years, and their parents have been paying into it, And their parents built the country, and their parents fought or died defending this country, and then you compare them, you say that they are of the same regard as people that have never been in this country, that disrespect this country, that in many cases hate this country and speak out against it.
00:20:10.000I can't make any sense out of that position.
00:20:49.000You do the paperwork, maybe we let you in.
00:20:51.000But it's not a place where you come with both hands open and you take with both hands for 50 years and you don't give back.
00:21:00.000So, I get what you're saying, obviously, you know, that the people in the United States have paid into this system and we've built this country.
00:21:06.000I mean, you have people who are legal immigrants that are coming here now that not necessarily built this country, and it's no different from the argument that I just made.
00:21:13.000And you're right, you know, it is unfair.
00:21:15.000It's unfair to my Chinese teacher who came through this country illegally and waded through the entire system.
00:21:20.000It's unfair to my parents who had, not my parents, my grandparents who had legally immigrated into this country.
00:21:27.000It's unfair to anybody who has, and I'm not denying that.
00:21:30.000But I don't understand why we're not supposed to forgive that.
00:21:33.000And I don't understand why it's easier to deport all these people.
00:21:38.000Because, first of all, I mean, I am all, I am seriously, I am all for keeping this country safe and finding all of the people in this country who want to threaten it and who do not want to be contributing members of this society.
00:21:52.000First of all, there's a lot of non contributing members of the society who are legal citizens anyway.
00:21:58.000I don't think we're even talking about that right now.
00:22:00.000But the point is to say that aside from the birthright citizenship issue, which I do want to get into, when you're talking about these people, to me, I want to do what I consider to be the right thing, which is that you have people who are in this country.
00:22:27.000Are you going to send their parents back?
00:22:29.000And then what's the way to deal with the situation?
00:22:31.000And the reason why I say realism is because.
00:22:34.000I don't like the fact that we have illegal immigrants in this country.
00:22:37.000And it is an issue that they are disrespecting the law by being here.
00:22:42.000But 78% of them, I'm just talking about people from Mexico.
00:22:45.000These are not people coming from a war zone, they're coming from Mexico.
00:22:47.000Obviously, the conditions were bad enough that they would risk their lives to come here to go through this system because they wanted to have opportunity just like anybody else.
00:22:55.000And I don't excuse the fact that they are there.
00:22:57.000But when you have people who are here, you know, people who I've actually interacted with, who are obviously nice people.
00:23:55.000I don't think anybody, I mean, people are enthusiastic to see deportations because of how many people in this country have been abused for so long, abused by our government, and seemingly we have people who come here and they get treated better.
00:24:07.000So you can understand why some people may be enthusiastic to see the enforcement of the law.
00:24:11.000However, we look at the situation, and it's not a great situation.
00:24:16.000I will grant you this that it is a horrible situation that many people find themselves in, where it's going to be very difficult.
00:24:25.000There will be a lot of bad things for a lot of people.
00:24:28.000However, when we look at the situation from the point of view or the perspective of a government, of a nation, of a civilization, you have to make these difficult decisions.
00:24:38.000And, you know, you can look at one example, and people will say this is anecdotal, but it's not, and I'll explain why.
00:24:46.000Emmanuel Rangel or Rangel Hernandez was an illegal immigrant in this country.
00:24:55.000He was a member of a drug gang, and despite that, immigration and customs let him stay.
00:25:01.000They let him have his application approved, and he was able to have a work permit and stay in the country, even though he was a part of a gang because he was a dreamer, of course.
00:25:20.000People in our country murder each other as well.
00:25:22.000And I'm not trying to minimize it, I'm not trying to say that's the whole issue.
00:25:26.000But it is to say this, those four people should have never died.
00:25:30.000They should have never died because that was completely preventable.
00:25:33.000If we had enforced our borders, as our government is constitutionally required to do, and we paid them 40% of our income every year to do that, if we had not been bringing in illegal immigrants, those four people would be alive.
00:25:47.000And, you know, I don't know what you tell the parents of, well, hey, hey, hey, I let you finish.
00:25:51.000I don't know what you would tell to the parents of those four people.
00:25:54.000I don't know what you would tell if those people had children.
00:25:57.000But those people should be alive because the person that killed them should have never been in this country if we were enforcing the laws.
00:26:04.000And it's this empathy, it's this compassion argument why we brought them in, why we let them stay in the first place.
00:26:11.000And I'm not saying that they're all murderers.
00:26:15.000But if there is one murderer among them, that is one too many and they all have to go back.
00:26:21.000Because if you allow them to stay and potentially there are murderers, potentially there are rapists, potentially there are crooks and bad hombres among them.
00:26:31.000What you are doing, maybe you don't see it this way, but this is what you are doing abstractly, logically, what you are doing is you are sacrificing potential American citizens.
00:26:43.000You are sacrificing American lives for the comfort of these people so that they could have an easier life.
00:26:51.000And you keep bringing up that it's only 72% Mexicans.
00:26:54.000I actually broke down the data, it's 93% Hispanics.
00:27:28.000We may say that they're not all murderers.
00:27:31.000But if there's one murderer among them, that's one too many because American lives have to come first in the mind of the American government.
00:27:41.000And how those people that you mentioned were killed because of a broken immigration system.
00:27:46.000And I said before, we need closed borders.
00:27:50.000We didn't go to Mexico and pick up these children and told them to come in here and become a part of America.
00:27:57.000But the rest of the people who are here now, aside from the anecdotal evidence that you're providing of a handful of murderers inside of them, the rest of them are law abiding citizens that are contributing members of society.
00:28:09.000And they should not pay for the crimes of the rest of the other people who are there.
00:28:13.000Obviously, like I said, it's a huge problem that we have an illegal immigration system.
00:28:19.000But there's no difference between people who are coming from Mexico that are killers and murderers or whatever and people in America who are killers and murderers or whatever.
00:28:28.000I'm not saying that it justifies anything that they're doing at all, but I'm saying, do you honestly care?
00:28:33.000I just can't tell if it's all a show that you're just sitting there and so hyper nationalist and everything and saying, rah, rah, America.
00:29:00.000I mean, to me, it's more of an injustice to make an entire group of people pay for the way that a few people have stained their reputation than allowing people who are contributing members to stay.
00:29:14.000And from a moral perspective, I mean, I can talk about the way that I see it.
00:29:20.000You can talk about the way that you see it.
00:29:22.000And different people are going to watch this debate and they're going to say, Well, it doesn't really matter to me.
00:29:26.000It doesn't really affect me that they're here.
00:29:28.000You're saying it affects the very principle of the thing.
00:29:33.000How dare these people come here and disrespect our laws and our borders?
00:29:39.000And instead of actually taking down the big mask, okay, Nick, you're a real big guy, instead of actually taking that off and saying, okay, they're here now, and obviously they're not all bad people, so what's wrong with letting them stay?
00:29:51.000And I'm not saying that all of them are coming from war zones, but the ones that are, I mean, you're talking about people.
00:29:56.000Who had no choice but to go to another country or they would be killed.
00:30:00.000And if I was in that position and it was me and my kids or my family, I could give a damn what the laws of another country are because I will go to protect them because I don't put some abstract concept of American nationalism first.
00:30:16.000And when it comes to my family and protecting the people that I care about, I have compassion for these people and I have pride in a nation that has compassion for the world.
00:30:27.000And wouldn't you, if you were in a situation where the United States was under attack and you had to leave, wouldn't you want another country to take you in?
00:30:37.000And again, I recognize that it's a smaller percentage of people who are coming from war zones, but it's no different to me than the Holocaust when you have people who are Jews who have to escape because they're literally being genocide.
00:31:56.000It's because they should have never been here in the first place.
00:31:59.000It's because if we had a government that was properly enforcing the borders, and what that means, it doesn't mean just stopping people from coming here, but it means deporting people who get through.
00:32:09.000If the government were enforcing the laws and deporting illegals, all those four people and every other person that got killed by an illegal immigrant would still be alive.
00:32:57.000Well, in any case, I don't think a lot of these people are planning on overthrowing the American government and murdering everybody in sight.
00:34:09.000And I mean, if you really believe that, then cast the first stone.
00:34:12.000Because if you think that you should be forgiven for your sins, but none of these other people should be, then be the biggest hypocrite on the face of the earth.
00:35:15.000I want to answer your claim, which is you keep asking this.
00:35:18.000You keep asking this, you keep wondering aloud how it is that I think Americans are better or how I have this hyper nationalism, how I can't put myself in the shoes of these poor people who are coming to this country and they have no other options.
00:35:32.000And I have never said anything to the contrary.
00:35:48.000If I were in the same situation, I may do it.
00:35:50.000Because if you're in Mexico and it's a broken, terrible country and you could take a little bit of a risky journey over to the United States and you could get your food stamps and you could get a nice public school and you could get a nice job and maybe get on your feet and become an American, I would take that risk.
00:36:21.000This is something that it should just be pretty self evident that that is the perspective, that is the value, that is what is best for illegal aliens, that is what is best for foreign people of foreign countries.
00:36:35.000And by the way, these people that are fleeing Mexico, we always start in the middle of the story where they have no other options and then they come here.
00:36:42.000Their government has a responsibility to them too.
00:36:45.000Their society failed them and has a responsibility to them.
00:36:49.000Just because their society failed doesn't mean ours needs to pick up the slack.
00:36:52.000Now, we can understand why people might do that.
00:36:55.000We can understand and have compassion that, you know, of course it's very sad.
00:36:58.000Of course the children are so poor and all of this.
00:37:02.000Okay, let's put that over there on a back burner for a moment and let's consider the American position, which is that you have 300 million people in this country who are paying 40% of their income every year, who in many cases they have relatives who have fought and died in wars defending this country.
00:37:20.000Who built the factories of this country?
00:37:22.000And in many cases, wait, wait, wait, hey, hey, hey, no, no, we're getting it.
00:37:26.000You mock nationalism, you mock the sacrifices.
00:37:30.000Excuse me, I let you finish, I let you finish, I let you finish, we're almost done here.
00:37:36.000You mock the sacrifices of our ancestors, of the people that built the country, as though that's a trivial detail, but it really matters, and here's why.
00:37:44.000Because you want us to look at the interests of the illegal immigrants.
00:37:48.000I understand that position, I understand that position, but we are looking after the interests of what is best for the people that are already here.
00:37:56.000It would be really great if they could come here legally and, you know, maybe they assimilate or whatever, but that's not what's happening.
00:38:39.000But if you're looking, 50% of DACA recipients are living in either California or Texas.
00:38:46.000And you're lucky that you have not been adversely affected, or at least not to your knowledge, by that sort of thing because people were not looking after your interests as a tax paying American citizen and the child of tax paying American citizens.
00:39:15.000It's in your interest as a person to have a compassionate world that is able to forgive people and that is able to put aside the fact that they broke a law for people who didn't have the choice when they were coming here in the first place.
00:39:34.000Furthermore, It's in your interest to have these people who are willing to work in this country and not be siphoning off the system without paying into the taxes because of the aforementioned economic arguments that I gave you.
00:40:10.000And we're going to have to send them back into the conditions that they left after they've created their lives for themselves here.
00:40:15.000They've assimilated to American values.
00:40:17.000And to me, I don't care at this point that they broke the law.
00:40:21.000Look, I get it that they did, and it was bad.
00:40:23.000They should have done it in the first place.
00:40:24.000But now that they did, I mean, seriously, like, who actually cares?
00:40:28.000And before we get off of this topic, like, I don't understand because, like, look, there are some people who genuinely care about this because it's a race issue.
00:40:50.000I'm not putting a race onto this at all.
00:40:52.000I'm talking about the specific people.
00:40:55.000But when we're talking about people, too, there are other economic arguments that you can make for it as well.
00:41:00.000I mean, I can give you another one, which is that a PhD, art carved in associate professor of economics at Stanford University, says the conventional wisdom says illegal immigrants take American jobs and lower American wages.
00:41:13.000Because the law of comparative advantage says that we get more productive when we have more trading partners.
00:41:19.000The arrival of undocumented workers with limited English skills frees up low skill American workers who can then specialize in tasks that require better English.
00:41:27.000Here's another one Adam Davidson, author of It's the Economy for the New York Times Magazine, says it may seem intuitive that there is an increase in the supply of workers, the ones who are here already will make less money or lose their jobs.
00:41:41.000Don't just increase the supply of labor, though, they simultaneously increase demand for it.
00:41:46.000They get wages, they earn rent for apartments, they eat food, they get haircuts, they buy cell phones.
00:41:51.000The meaning that means that they are more jobs building apartments, selling food, giving haircuts, and dispatching trucks to move those phones.
00:41:58.000Immigrants increase the size of the overall population, which means they increase the size of the economy.
00:42:03.000Logically, if immigrants were stealing jobs, so would every young person leaving school and entering the job market.
00:42:08.000Countries should become poorer as they get larger.
00:42:11.000In reality, of course, the opposite happens.
00:42:46.000It's just unrealistic to me to think that you're going to call in the National Guard to go chase down people throughout the streets of California and Texas when you could literally just say to them, Look, we don't appreciate that you did this, obviously, and you did register, so we want to give you a path to citizenship.
00:43:02.000We want to make you become an American citizen, maybe have them serve in the military or something if you want that to happen.
00:43:08.000But at the end of the day, I mean, I'm just saying we shouldn't look at these people as if they're less than us because they came here under illegal circumstances.
00:43:20.000And because they've shown that they are good people, most of them, that are willing to come into this country and assimilate to our values.
00:43:26.000So to me, I look at them and I say, all right, we're going to have compassion for you, and, you know, that's what it is.
00:43:36.000You have this sort of juvenile argument, and I don't even mean that in a pejorative way, but just in a descriptive way, which is your argument seems to be, well, I don't know, I can't find any reasons.
00:44:01.000Hey, excuse me, you know, you keep interrupting me.
00:44:04.000I keep letting you finish, and then you keep interrupting me.
00:44:07.000It really speaks, I think, a lot to your argument that you can't allow me to finish a sentence because, of course, it would completely bankrupt everything you have to say, which is very substanceless if I'm being very honest.
00:44:17.000You bring up the economic argument, which I said from the first statement was not my argument.
00:44:24.000My argument is not that they should be deported because of an economic reason.
00:44:58.000And yet it seems, it seems, so please don't jump in really quickly and say, no, no, that's not true.
00:45:04.000It seems as though, okay, there it is.
00:45:06.000It seems as though you don't believe in personal responsibility because you believe in this country where we have all these 800,000 DACA recipients, we have all these illegal immigrants.
00:45:21.000It's really a tremendous burden on them that we have to enforce the laws, that they're here and they put down roots and they have such a nice life, and then the big bad government comes and takes them away.
00:45:32.000DACA stands for Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals.
00:45:57.000You wouldn't say that a murderer should go free because, well, they killed people, but now they're not going to kill anyone anymore.
00:46:03.000Or a bank robber robbed a bank, but the money got reconstituted, and he's not going to rob banks anymore, so he shouldn't serve a prison fine.
00:46:11.000A big component of enforcing the law is an element of moral hazard.
00:46:25.000Depending on the statistics that you look at, if you look at the Huffington Post, 80% of women are raped when they come across the southern border illegally.
00:46:34.000If you look at Amnesty International, that number is 60%.
00:46:38.000So these are two liberal categories here, and we're between 60 and 80% of women are getting raped on the way over.
00:46:44.000When we look at illegal immigrants and we say, you can stay, yeah, you know, who cares?
00:47:45.000He'd probably be making it a lot wealthier and a lot better in many ways.
00:47:49.000So, I mean, additionally, on top of my argument that the federal government's number one and only priority is to enforce American law, no matter the cost, no matter the circumstances, on top of that, even if we're using your Evaluation,
00:48:03.000even if we're using your standard, the most compassionate thing that we can do, although it might be difficult for the 800,000 that are here, would be far more compassionate for the hundreds of thousands and millions that attempt this journey and for the people in these countries that are deprived of their best human capital when there's a brain drain of people coming into a first world country that borders theirs.
00:48:27.000Okay, so first of all, you're using sources of all illegal immigrants, which.
00:48:33.000Is not the law abiding ones that I'm defending here, the 800,000.
00:48:36.000So, first of all, that argument aside, it is not playing in this debate.
00:48:40.000Second of all, you can't prove that these people would have done anything of substance within their home countries because they don't have the opportunity that America afforded them.
00:48:47.000Finally, just to summarize this overall debate here, because I've listened to your arguments and there's literally just one, and it comes down to this.
00:48:54.000You stated that it's not an economic reason why we don't want them here.
00:48:59.000You stated that at any cost, whether it's sacrificing people's social security money or whatever it costs the billions of dollars it would pay to taxpayers.
00:49:07.000To round up all of these people and send them back.
00:49:09.000And you've stated at whatever sacrifice of our morals, you would be willing to do this.
00:49:13.000Because at the end of the day, it is about one thing for you respecting laws.
00:49:24.000Because you're so stuck on this kind of law that you don't understand that there's people behind the law.
00:49:34.000And I mean, that's just what it comes down to.
00:49:37.000This is so wacky, but I mean, you're okay.
00:49:41.000So if you're wait, wait, let me here's why because my central argument, which you've recognized, and I think you haven't done a straw man, which is good, which is that we need to uphold the laws.
00:49:53.000Your counter to my central claim is well, we make the laws, therefore we can change them.
00:49:59.000But, I mean, that's akin to saying if somebody robs a bank, we should make it legal to rob banks and grandfather him in.
00:50:12.000These people chose to break the law, and we are grandfathering them in to a hypothetical other law that nobody got elected to pass, by the way.
00:50:35.000The people never approved the DREAM Act.
00:50:37.000It was Barack Obama who unconstitutionally.
00:50:40.000Pass DACA through an executive fiat, and then that just got rescinded.
00:50:44.000So, and then on top of that, Donald Trump got elected president with a GOP House and Senate.
00:50:50.000There is virtually no mandate in the House or the Senate to pass a law enshrining the rights of these people to stay here that were unconstitutional to begin with.
00:50:58.000So you say that the people that are here make the laws, or we make the laws.
00:51:04.000Well, when this act originally went around in the House, it was shot down by the People's Chamber, which is the House of Representatives.
00:51:11.000And in 2016, Donald Trump got elected on a platform of rescinding DACA on day one.
00:51:17.000So, you know, just who is we that is going to change the law and grandfather in 800,000 people?
00:51:24.000Again, that we don't even know who they are.
00:51:26.000So, first of all, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, and even Trump have expressed their concern and compassion for these people, and several other senators have passed bills.
00:51:36.000But the problem is, our House and Senate is so ineffective, even with a Republican majority, we can't even get health care fixed.
00:51:44.000But when it comes down to it, I mean, this is people's lives that we're dealing with here.
00:52:06.000So if I call my representative and I say to them, hey, Elizabeth Warren, who I despise on every other issue, this is something that I think you should be fighting for.
00:52:16.000Hey, Ed Markey, this is something I think you should be fighting for.
00:52:48.000He may have gone back on what he said during the election, but when people went to the ballot box, and that is how we hear the voice of the people Vox Populae, Vox Dei, the voice of the people is the voice of God.
00:53:00.000When we went to the ballot box on November 8th, we voted for Donald Trump.
00:53:29.000Why would you have legislation if it could be overruled by the president and then after it gets so bad that we have to make Some kind of special accommodation, even though the people voted to get rid of it anyways, we're going to say, well, the House majority leader or the Speaker of the House and the House minority leader can abrogate that anyway.
00:53:49.000I mean, it's just, and I think you know this, it just doesn't work.
00:54:09.000Something that doesn't make any sense if you want to have a law that is respected by people from south of the border.
00:54:17.000And again, explain to me, I'm asking you this explain to me how you have compassion for these people from these other countries when what you are doing, and this is exactly what happens.
00:54:28.000When you keep DACA recipients here and you don't deport them, you are telling Central America, if you come here illegally, we won't deport you.
00:54:37.000Because when you keep them here, I mean, that's of course what they're going to see.
00:54:42.000When you're incentivizing and necessarily through a priori reasoning, incentivizing more of those people to make a very perilous, dangerous journey?
00:54:54.000And in fact, we need to have closed borders.
00:54:56.000And I'm saying if we have closed borders, we won't have legal immigration.
00:54:59.000Therefore, we can make, in this case, the exception so that we don't need to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to go eject hundreds of thousands of people that we should be having compassion for.
00:55:13.000We made an exception in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million.
00:55:17.000We made an exception under George W. Bush when he brought in 4 million illegals in his first five years.
00:55:23.000We made an exception under Obama with DACA after it failed to pass the House and then he gave amnesty to an additional 3 million.
00:55:29.000Republicans and Democrats can both get behind measures of compassion.
00:55:33.000I don't see where you're getting off on this.
00:55:35.000I'm not a Republican or a Democrat because, in case you haven't noticed, that's the same party.
00:55:40.000I represent, and Donald Trump represents, The voice and the interests of the American people, not the globalist monoparty that wants cheap labor for different reasons.
00:55:50.000Why did the Democrats want DACA and illegal immigrants to stay here?
00:57:19.000You buy into the propaganda where they are convincing the American people they should be for this because the poor immigrants.
00:57:26.000But if you actually look into it, if you actually cared enough, you'd see that they're incentivizing a horrible, miserable life for these people in the shadows, and it's to serve corporate and political interests.
00:57:59.000It's a noble thing to be compassionate for other people, it's a Christian thing.
00:58:03.000But they took advantage of you, and they took advantage of a lot of other people for their own benefit.
00:58:10.000So I'll just make my closing point, which is that my values, and I have been influenced with Ayn Rand, but that does not conflict with any of my values or my faith.
00:58:19.000And this is what it comes down to, Nick.
00:58:21.000Which is that you're using a lot of peer research polling, which, first of all, is not polling illegal immigrants to find out what they actually want.
00:58:28.000But I can tell you a lot of people who I know that are Hispanic who came from Cuba or places under regimes that were oppressive and undemocratic and unconservative or liberal regimes, Marxist regimes, which are coming to this country because they want a free society that gives them the ability to keep what they earn.
00:58:49.000And unfortunately, it's not totally the case at this point, but we're working towards it.
00:58:53.000You can't give me any information that says a person will automatically vote a certain way because of their race.
00:59:00.000And if you do, that's racist because you can't generalize entire people like that.
00:59:16.000So when you're giving me any of these arguments, we're not incentivizing people to come if they know they can't even get in here because we have closed borders.
00:59:25.000So why not, and this is my final point, why not we close the border so that there's no illegal immigration and then we let these people stay?
00:59:33.000The people who are working and contributing members of society, not the criminals, and we'll deport those.
00:59:39.000And anybody else who does not want to come forward to be a part of this can be deported as well.
00:59:43.000And we're not incentivizing them to stay in the shadows.
00:59:46.000We're incentivizing them to come out of the shadows and to become members of society, full Americans.
00:59:55.000I'll make my final point and then we'll call it an episode.
00:59:58.000It's been about an hour, so I'll let you go after that.
01:00:01.000But my final point, my final retort would be this.
01:00:06.000If you look into the illegal immigration situation, you have two parties, two major political parties that have been pushing for this for 50 years, since the 1965 Hart Cellar Immigration Act.
01:00:19.000They've been pushing for immigration from the third world.
01:00:24.000You look at why Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell, and Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama are on the same team on this one.
01:00:33.000You don't have to look any further than the data, than these statistics, which is that.
01:00:37.000The people that we're bringing in, and you bring up Cuba, but a million of them, that's 73% of DACA recipients, far more for illegal immigrants as a total, are Mexicans.
01:00:49.000And you can chalk it up to culture, you can chalk it up to circumstance or history or geographic determinism.
01:00:55.000It doesn't have to be racial determinism.
01:00:57.000But these immigrants that we're bringing over, they support bigger government.
01:01:06.000They have an agenda which is contrary to what this nation was founded on.
01:01:09.000And that is an agenda that hurts the American people.
01:01:12.000And serves the cosmopolitan, internationalist, rootless transnational elite at the expense of all of us.
01:01:20.000And I would just, in my final point, I would encourage anybody who has compassion for these people to look into it, please.
01:01:29.000What we are incentivizing, what is the life of an illegal immigrant, and why are both parties incentivizing more people to live the same life?
01:01:38.000I don't have the same priorities in terms of my compassion, but if that's If that's your opinion, that we should be looking after their interests, I think there's an argument to be made there, too.
01:01:48.000Beyond that, my central claim is the American government serves the American people.
01:01:53.000Donald Trump was elected to represent us, not the world.
01:01:56.000And that's how we should govern all policy, including immigration policy.
01:02:00.000But, Will, it's been a pleasure debating you.
01:02:04.000I know we go at it on Twitter, and it can get a little bit heated.
01:02:07.000But, like I said, and like we said before we started, I respect you.