00:00:05.000My name is Nicholas J. Fuentes, and we have a great show for you tonight.
00:00:10.000We are very excited to bring on my friend who's been working in the underbelly of Conservative Inc. for a long time.
00:00:17.000Not anymore, but he had been for a long time.
00:00:21.000An old friend of mine that I knew from the Leadership Institute.
00:00:25.000He actually took me under his wing when I was trying to get a job there, when I was working my way up the greasy, Corporate ladder, and he'll be joining us tonight.
00:00:35.000His name is Alex Wytoslawski, and he'll be here to talk about a Polish person, which is all right.
00:00:51.000We'll be having him on the show to talk about activism and to talk about foreign affairs, the black pill versus the white pill, and it should be a good time.
00:01:00.000So I'll bring him in here on the Google Hangouts.
00:01:05.000I was just on a stream with Richard Spencer, actually, a moment ago, shortly before this.
00:01:13.000I was on the JF Gripe show called The Public Space, which to me, I think it should be stylized as the public space because that's how he says it all the time.
00:01:24.000You know, they call it the public space, but that's not how it's said.
00:01:27.000So just had a very good discussion with Mr. Richard Spencer, which we've had our differences in the past, but he seemed to be very congenial tonight and pretty much on point.
00:01:39.000In terms of everything we talked about.
00:01:43.000And let's see if we have Alex on the line.
00:01:46.000I sent him the link, so he should be coming in in a moment.
00:01:50.000But even on the religion question with Spencer, he seemed much more.
00:01:56.000I don't know, maybe I just didn't understand his position or maybe he didn't articulate it as well because I think there was a lot of confusion about it.
00:02:02.000But tonight he seemed much more congenial towards religious people, particularly Catholics and Christians.
00:02:09.000And so he sounded reasonable enough to me.
00:02:12.000Which I know many people are going to get all upset and say, oh, Nick was on with Richard Spencer, the bad guy, the evil guy.
00:02:19.000You know, I don't agree with everything he has to say, but to me, it seemed like just about everything we covered was okay, sounded okay to me.
00:02:28.000As we're waiting on Mr. Witteslawski, we'll see.
00:02:31.000He told me he was ready, told me he was ready to go, but we'll be waiting.
00:03:58.000Yeah, so basically, my background is well, like many people on the dissident right, I started off as a Ron Paul guy back in like 07 and 08.
00:04:08.000And I did some activism with, you know, like the Ron Paul folks and Campaign for Liberty.
00:04:17.000But starting in 2012, I started doing some things a little more professionally, right?
00:04:25.000Started working for a state rep campaign and doing that type of thing.
00:04:30.000And eventually, yeah, I mean, honestly, like, not much to say besides political operative.
00:04:36.000I've worked on campaigns, worked for nonprofits, helped pass laws and defeat bad bills in state legislatures before, also have helped people get elected.
00:04:49.000And, you know, when I was with the Leadership Institute, I did tackle speech codes on several campuses, so, and defeated those or helped student activists who were working towards defeating those.
00:05:02.000I'd say I have a pretty well rounded activism experience in terms of, you know, doing everything from defeating speech codes on college campuses to, you know, getting people elected and grassroots lobbying.
00:05:21.000And I think you're a perfect person to bring on this kind of a show because we talk about activism on this show and we talk about pragmatic activism, right?
00:05:30.000We talk about putting people in college campus organizations.
00:05:34.000Putting people on campaigns, putting people in the party apparatus so that they can be effective, so they can actually make change instead of just talking about it.
00:05:43.000So I think you're the perfect person to bring on.
00:05:45.000And, you know, we talked about the Leadership Institute, which I think is, and tell me if you agree with this, the Leadership Institute, which I went to for a weekend training and then for what was supposed to be a job training.
00:05:57.000You know, I didn't get the job because of a woman.
00:06:03.000But I went there and I thought that regardless of the Content, which was very conservative, very libertarian kind of stuff, regardless of the content, I thought it was very good training.
00:06:13.000I thought even if you sent nationalist people into those organizations to learn the ropes and to learn how to do it, I think it's still a great asset.
00:06:46.000And so I kind of had this issue myself because, like, I would recruit people to go to trainings.
00:06:51.000And then near the end of 2016, and certainly in 2017, you know, everyone kind of on the right was getting radicalized, at least in the distant right, you know, the circles I run in.
00:07:03.000And then I'd have some of these student activists come into trainings, and then they start spouting off all types of like really radical rhetoric.
00:07:11.000And that kind of inadvertently outed me.
00:07:13.000So, but when you do that, you're not helping yourself either, right?
00:07:17.000Like when you go to these trainings via LI or another one that I recommend is the one day school by the Foundation for Applied Conservative Leadership.
00:07:28.000If you go to those, act like a normal conservative, right?
00:07:33.000Network with people there and see if you can kind of get your foot in the door and get trained up to be a more effective activist.
00:07:39.000So, and don't out yourself immediately because then they're just.
00:07:43.000You know, they're not going to pick you for anything cool, right?
00:07:48.000Yeah, if you want a job, like you're not going to get a job if you're out yourself.
00:07:51.000If you want some more activism experience or something, like they're not going to give you a call, right?
00:07:57.000If you come across sounding too radical.
00:07:59.000So that's kind of what I suggest everyone do there.
00:08:04.000And I mean, it was Saul Alinsky who said true radicals, they put on a suit, a tie, and they try to infiltrate the system from within.
00:09:16.000The Youth Leadership School by the Leadership Institute.
00:09:19.000If you're a high schooler, or I don't know, maybe if you're a college kid, if you're a young guy, and I get that question so much on this show how can I help?
00:09:48.000I'm not 100% sure about their website, but they have a really good training for specifically for like grassroots lobbying, right?
00:09:56.000So, if you're trying to change laws on a local level or on a state level and build up a grassroots organization, that's a really good training to go to.
00:10:06.000Whereas Leadership Institute training is kind of more like tactical.
00:10:21.000And they teach more of like a strategy.
00:10:23.000And I think that's something that going forward, people on the distant right wing need a lot of.
00:10:29.000And they need to think that over more, right?
00:10:32.000It's like, how are we going to build organizations and grow them and pick fights and change laws, even if it's something small starting up, right?
00:10:43.000Or even if you lose, like sometimes you lose a legislative fight, but your organization grows, your group grows, your movement grows, and that's all a good thing.
00:10:52.000So, yeah, it's definitely, but sorry, FACL, FACL, Foundation for Applied Conservative Leadership, they have a one day school.
00:11:01.000I believe you have to go onto their website and input your info, and they'll reach out to you when they have a training.
00:11:09.000They're a little more, I'd say, secretive.
00:11:16.000Those are two great places where we can infiltrate.
00:11:20.000And it's very easy because it's almost like they're giving it away.
00:11:24.000You'd almost be stupid not to take advantage of it because when I was there, I mean, they pour tons of money from major donors into investigating, into putting together these, whatever you call it, these training exercises and these training regimens.
00:11:40.000And they do it so that you're effective, so that you're in the field.
00:12:19.000And what can you tell us about your, because I want to talk about activism a little bit, because that's, of course, your expertise.
00:12:25.000And it's really, I think, a great topic.
00:12:27.000Before we get into the foreign policy stuff.
00:12:30.000So, with all your experience, I know you've worked for a number of campus organizations and national organizations.
00:12:36.000You look at the organization, or rather the activism, of the dissident right for the past year Charlottesville, the rallies, the college tours.
00:12:46.000As somebody who's seen successful and unsuccessful activism, somebody who's gotten paid for this kind of stuff, what is your takeaway from the past year?
00:13:19.000A lot of people talk about optics, right?
00:13:23.000And the thing is, it's not about optics, though optics is a part of it, it's about messaging, right?
00:13:31.000And what are you putting out there about yourself, right?
00:13:35.000And optics is a part of your message, right?
00:13:37.000Because, like, the first thing that people do when they see you is they judge you based on how you look, right?
00:13:42.000So, if you're out there with some guy that's, you know, marching around with the swastika flag, like, they see you and you're marching side by side with this guy, they think you're a Nazi, right?
00:13:54.000And that's just not going to fly in modern America.
00:13:59.000And we see other things as well, right?
00:14:12.000You know, we saw like TWP would show up at events and they'd be sanctioned by some movement leaders, which I thought was ridiculous.
00:14:21.000And they would be throwing up Roman salutes and stuff.
00:14:24.000It's like, come on, guys, what are you doing, right?
00:14:26.000And the rhetoric in general was just bad.
00:14:29.000So I'd say, honestly, a lot of the stuff leading up to it was.
00:14:35.000A lot of the things that the alt right and the dissident right have been involved in in recent history have been pretty bad.
00:14:42.000Now, the good things that I saw, and this actually kind of ties into what I wanted to discuss with you here, was like, for example, after the first serious strikes, right, we saw the alt right going out there, marching in Washington, D.C.
00:14:58.000That went relatively well, and denouncing the serious strikes, right, and going in front of the White House and telling President Trump, We're against more Zionist wars.
00:15:11.000And I think that kind of issue based activism is something that's valuable because you're picking a fight, you're staking out your side, and you're standing for whatever it is you believe in.
00:15:27.000And then people who agree with you, maybe they don't agree with you on everything, but that kind of gives you a way to start talking with those people and start messaging to them.
00:15:38.000So, for example, with the whole foreign policy thing, I mean, for a lot of like Ron Paul guys, like myself, this was kind of like where we got woke on certain issues, right?
00:15:49.000Like, you look at all of the Coens and stuff that are neocons, right?
00:15:54.000You look at the different lobby groups that are pushing us to war, right?
00:16:00.000The different people in the media who are pushing us into war.
00:16:03.000And you start realizing something, right?
00:16:05.000They're not here representing the interests of America.
00:16:08.000And so I think it's this type of issue based activism where people go out on the streets.
00:16:15.000Obviously, good rhetoric, good messaging, good optics, like all of that is important.
00:16:21.000But where we go hit the streets on a particular issue, It can be foreign policy.
00:16:26.000It can be immigration, you know, stop the caravan, whatever, and start getting our message out there into the public around issues that we care about and around issues that we don't necessarily have to win every fight we take on, but we have to get stronger with every fight we take on, right?
00:16:46.000So, like, maybe we can't stop the next Zionist war, right?
00:16:52.000I'm not 100% sure what's happening with that right now because I've heard conflicting stories, but just by taking on the fight, We're exercising.
00:17:30.000Your diagnosis about Charlottesville is basically correct in terms of messaging, where it wasn't so much, of course, optics is a part of messaging, but I think one of the bigger flaws was the idea that what really was this march about?
00:17:45.000The big reason, I think, why the media was able to steal the narrative on that and say this was the Nazi march or the white supremacist march or the KKK march is because there was not really a clear vision for what this was supposed to be.
00:19:42.000Find out when the next convention is, find out how I become a precinct delegate, and sign up to be a precinct delegate.
00:19:49.000And when I do that, get myself elected, it's really easy to become one.
00:19:55.000The rules vary by state, so I'm not going to tell you exactly how to become one, but it's usually pretty easy to become one.
00:20:02.000And then once you're in, you can vote on who's going to be in the committee, et cetera.
00:20:07.000You can vote on who's going to go to state convention and vote.
00:20:10.000And if you go to your state convention, you can vote who's going to run the state level Republican Party, right?
00:20:17.000And so the Republican Party operates, it's kind of like a federal system, right?
00:20:23.000There's a national, a state, and a local level.
00:20:26.000And I think that's one good area where people could start infiltrating.
00:20:30.000And if you have buddies, right, from a different organization, let's say, or if you and just some of your buddies hang out, like I do that here in Michigan, you could always sign up all of your buddies to go and you could take over a local Republican Party if you have enough people.
00:20:48.000Or you could be a strong enough faction.
00:21:01.000They spend money on producing literature and sending out direct mail.
00:21:06.000And you can start moving the needle ever so slightly to the right and start helping candidates who are more, let's say, like Ann Coulter, right?
00:21:21.000But in addition to that, go to every meeting you can find if it's like a more libertarian leaning organization.
00:21:28.000Or if it's like a Tea Party organization.
00:21:32.000But the other thing, as well, is, you know, of course, we're talking to a younger crowd here.
00:21:36.000Get involved in your, you know, college Republicans or in Young Americans for Liberty or Turning Point USA, but especially college Republicans, because you can take that over and start from there, right?
00:21:51.000And that's where you're going to find people who are like minded.
00:21:54.000You can start bringing them more over to your side, but you can also, you know, take over these organizations and use them for whatever you want to do, like.
00:22:03.000Wouldn't it be cool if you could get a speaker that shares more of our ideas to show up at your campus?
00:22:16.000So there's ways to go about doing that, but that starts with either starting your own campus group or being part of an existing campus organization like College Republicans or like Turning Point USA and going from there.
00:22:33.000And that's very helpful because so often, you know, you see.
00:22:38.000Where we are in the nationalist right, and we have a lot of people across the country who have our views, and we're very angry about them, we're very passionate about them, but there's not much we can do about them, right?
00:22:49.000I mean, I think we all have felt that helplessness, that powerlessness when we see that major organizations, major money, political whether it's political or it's private sector, where they can move money, they can move people, and we think, what's going on?
00:23:05.000It seems like all the excitement is on our side, it seems like a lot of people are coming our way.
00:23:11.000But these old Bush style candidates, these old Ronald Reagan type people, they're getting all the play in these major institutions.
00:23:18.000And I think that's a great way for people like us to really change the, like you said, move the needle in a real way.
00:23:26.000We talk about, you know, raising consciousness, moving the Overton window.
00:23:31.000And as a pragmatic person, I think, okay, but this is very ethereal.
00:23:43.000How many meetings can we dominate or funds or whatever?
00:23:46.000And that's, I think, the way forward, correct?
00:23:48.000Would it be, and I guess this is the bigger question that I'll ask you now.
00:23:52.000We get a lot of people on this show, people who watch this show, or people who send in super chats who say, you know, Nick, electoral politics, it's just a waste of time.
00:24:04.000I think this is the core of the white pill, black pill debate where do we find this line of people who are mobilizing with angst about the president by saying, we're going to pressure him, and people who are saying, tune out, go away from politics.
00:25:00.000Like, if you look at a lot of the special interest legislation that gets passed through Congress, through your state legislature, through your city council, or your county council, or whatever they call it in your state, right?
00:25:14.000It's not like a majority of people want some weird bill on the prevailing wage to get passed.
00:25:22.000No, those politicians vote a certain way on those bills because special interest groups that make up a tiny minority of the population.
00:25:31.000Put pressure on those politicians and say, hey, if you don't vote this way, if you don't vote the right way on this bill, we're going to send a check to your opponent next election cycle, right?
00:25:43.000Or we're going to turn out all of our union members and get them to knock on doors in your district, right?
00:25:50.000So either for you or against you, right?
00:27:38.000And that's kind of, you know, when I'm talking about the issue based activism, that's kind of why I talk about that because if you start tackling, say, building the wall or stopping the caravan or whatever, you're going to strengthen yourself, right?
00:27:52.000Because you're going to attract new people.
00:27:54.000And what you have to do is figure out how to get those people into your network, sign them up on a sign up sheet or a petition or whatever, or just talk to them, get them to show up to your local meeting, right?
00:28:05.000But all of this is kind of for nothing if we don't have local groups meeting.
00:28:12.000Or if we don't have local activists trying to infiltrate the Republican Party.
00:28:16.000So all of these things have to happen, but it starts off with you there at home actually doing it and not sitting on your ass all day complaining and getting black pilled or too white pilled.
00:29:12.000It's funny because this movement is maybe the most uniquely aware.
00:29:17.000Of a certain situation where a very tiny percentage of the population may exert a disproportionate amount of influence, right?
00:29:25.000I mean, we all are aware that there's, I don't know, maybe two, between two and three percent of the population calls the shots on a lot of things.
00:29:34.000And they think that if we're less than 50 percent, you know, all hope is lost, forget about it, throw in the towel, it's over.
00:29:41.000And it just speaks to the fact that if this group of people can demographically transform the country, I'm sure if we had 20 times that number, we could just as easily go in the other direction.
00:29:53.000And I think it just comes down to a matter of what are you willing to do?
00:29:57.000Is there a willpower to get this done?
00:30:00.000And, like you say, if people can get off their ass, you know, sometimes I go against the language code as well, so it's all right.
00:30:40.000If we're willing to build this structure, build this infrastructure, essentially, of a new movement, whether that's a party, whether that's some kind of socio political apparatus, I don't know what it would look like.
00:30:53.000But if we're willing to be those building blocks and to put together these nodes in a vast network, really, we're going to be a lot better off, whether we're 50% or less than that or more than that.
00:31:33.000Yeah, I think you said it all right there with the activism.
00:31:37.000But on foreign affairs, I want to clear something up because we got in kind of a debate.
00:31:42.000And what I like about you, Alex, and I'm not just blowing smoke, we can say, we can dance each other, and it could get a little edgy, but you're not like a baby about it.
00:32:06.000That between the chemical attack, which was on a Saturday, and the strike, which is on a Friday, people were saying, call the White House, jam up the phone lines, all the rest.
00:32:20.000And I just want to clarify before we jump in, because I know that'll be a contention.
00:32:24.000The only reason was that in that window, Trump was looking at acting on something very specific, which was, how do we respond to a chemical attack?
00:32:34.000And my thought was, He's in reaction mode.
00:32:37.000Something's going to have to happen, or else he loses face, or it appears that he loses face, whatever.
00:32:43.000And so, in that short timeframe between the attack and how they responded, I didn't think phone calls would change very much.
00:32:51.000After the strike, I think it would be prudent to call because now I think it's a little bit more up in the air.
00:34:15.000So, yeah, I disagree with the activism not accomplishing anything.
00:34:21.000And the other thing, as well, that I think regarding the activism leading up to the strikes was that I think it's important, even though this time there was no march or anything like that that was happening, which I think was a shame.
00:34:37.000I think that would have been a good example of IRL activism.
00:34:41.000Going out there into the meat space and showing that movement leaders are actively opposed to another Zionist war in Syria, right?
00:34:52.000Because we know the left isn't going to rally.
00:34:55.000And that would have set us apart from every other movement.
00:34:59.000Even the libertarians who, when Ron Paul was around, all the libertarians were anti war.
00:35:05.000Well, now the Ron Paul faction's kind of dissipated, right?
00:35:08.000And you have these Beltway libertarians who sometimes they'll say something mildly anti war, but.
00:35:19.000So I think that would have been a really good thing for the dissident right wing to do show up in meet space, show people that they're against the war.
00:35:27.000But short of that, you know, I think the whole like Twitter outrage and Facebook, whatever, YouTube, et cetera, I think it was good to show that we are anti war in Syria and that we're willing to go against the president if he does go to war.
00:35:44.000Now, that said, I agreed with a lot of what you said criticizing those people who are out there publicly criticizing Trump because I did personally think the whole, oh, neocon Don thing was over the top.
00:35:59.000You know, at that point, he hadn't done the Syria strike.
00:36:02.000And even after the Syria strike, it seemed like a one off thing, right?
00:36:06.000So he's not being a neoconservative, but I think it was good for us to show that we're against the Syria strikes.
00:36:14.000We're against another war in Syria, in the Middle East.
00:36:19.000And the other thing I'd say is, you know, I think a key point to what you argue is that the Syria strikes were merely symbolic.
00:36:53.000I mean, obviously, their country is in the civil war.
00:36:55.000So taking out 20% of their air force is a big hit.
00:36:59.000To the Syrian government and to their ability to fight radical Islamic terrorists.
00:37:05.000And then more recently, yes, this more recent attack, maybe you could say it was a little more symbolic, but still an act of war.
00:37:12.000We're bombing their research facilities.
00:37:16.000It's like, I think J.F. Gary Apie, or however you say his name, he made this point on a recent stream.
00:37:22.000It's like bombing their equivalent of the NIH.
00:37:25.000I know there's some debate about what the facilities exactly did that we bombed.
00:37:30.000All right, but what if they do military research?
00:37:33.000You know, what if they do research on how to, you know, a new weapon or new bombs or new rifles or whatever?
00:37:39.000I don't think we're creating goodwill for the United States or for, you know, the American people when we go bomb the government of a country that's actively fighting radical Islamic terrorists, right?
00:37:55.000If anything, I think we should be helping Assad destroy ISIS and then getting, you know, getting the hell out of the Middle East.
00:38:04.000So, That's kind of where I would split up with your argument.
00:38:09.000And then lastly, I'm not going to go into this much unless you want to talk about it, but I don't think that the Syria strikes really helped with the North Korea peace deal.
00:38:20.000I think those are completely separate.
00:38:22.000I think what happened with North Korea or what is happening right now with our negotiations would have happened regardless.
00:38:31.000And, you know, I don't see why a country would give up its nukes.
00:38:36.000After they see us attacking a country that doesn't have nukes.
00:38:40.000The whole point of having nukes is to have a deterrent against the United States and against other powerful nations, not to, like, why would they give it up?
00:38:53.000Yeah, well, on the first point about activism, I would actually agree with you.
00:38:57.000I think the middle ground between us is that we recognize that activism is useful, but we also understand that there's excesses of the criticism of Trump.
00:39:10.000I think there is a lot of cheerleading for people doing any kind of activism at all, or even people criticizing Trump.
00:39:16.000I think there's a lot of cheerleading for people going after Trump and all that kind of thing.
00:39:21.000We know that every time Trump doesn't do something we like, the dopamine rush that people get for criticizing Trump, whether you call him Amnesty Don or Neocon Don, it's through the roof.
00:39:31.000And so that's really where I come at it I'm okay with people calling the White House.
00:39:36.000Sometimes I think it's more effective than at other times, but I'm just really against people who say Trump has betrayed us and it makes no difference if Hillary Clinton were president right now.
00:39:46.000And basically it doesn't matter who gets elected and therefore you shouldn't participate in the process.
00:39:51.000And that's where I really have trouble with the conclusions because you know people.
00:39:57.000You know, it may start out with Trump doesn't, you know, Trump needs to be guided in this direction.
00:40:03.000But for many people, it ends up as it doesn't matter if Trump was somebody else, and therefore it doesn't matter who's president, and therefore why should I bother?
00:40:11.000And so that's really the only thing I have an issue with.
00:40:14.000Calling the White House, like I said, sometimes I think it's really effective, sometimes not so much, but I don't have a problem with it.
00:40:21.000Number two, on the symbolic strikes, I would say that in the first case, Almost universally, the experts agreed it was symbolic.
00:40:30.000And if you went in and looked, China's approach to North Korea was very different before and after the strikes.
00:41:17.000And even before the civil war, few people mentioned this, but even before the civil war, he's been helping us with our terrorists since as far back as the 1990s, torturing them, capturing them, like literally.
00:41:28.000And so, you know, I think the Assad regime is.
00:41:32.000Is in comparison to some of the other regimes that we're allied with, I think, a relatively good one.
00:41:38.000But I just think that you have to look at foreign affairs in terms of not what is ideal, but what is there.
00:41:46.000Ideally, should we have these principles of not attacking countries that are doing good work?
00:41:52.000I mean, ideally, we wouldn't attack Assad at all.
00:41:56.000But I look at the situation in North Korea, and I think the gap is very narrow in terms of making diplomacy work.
00:42:04.000We have very, very few options to make that work.
00:42:07.000I think one of the things that we can do, which is very persuasive, is to try to convince Kim Jong un that we're willing to use military force.
00:42:17.000I think after eight years of Obama and Trump being a non interventionist and also running on being a non interventionist and being a new president, I think there's an attitude that maybe we could keep doing this.
00:42:28.000We could keep developing our arsenal and probably not pay a price because Trump wouldn't go to war.
00:42:38.000Valuable reason for why we do a strike like this.
00:42:41.000I simply think it outweighs the cost of doing it, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the cost.
00:42:46.000Though the last point, which is you think they're separate issues, I would say I understand the thinking there.
00:42:53.000And I think the second strike, it's a little bit more dubious because, of course, the first strike, it was when Xi Jinping was at Mar-a-Lago.
00:43:01.000So it's almost hard to say that they had nothing to do with it in the first one.
00:43:05.000And the second one, I think it's a little bit more ambiguous.
00:43:08.000But I think that it's always a good thing for the president to demonstrate that he's either crazy or that he's willing to use force.
00:43:15.000I think those two things are very valuable.
00:43:18.000The last one was that Kim Jong un, why would he give up his arsenal if he believed that we would attack somebody who doesn't?
00:43:26.000I think that Kim Jong un is not looking at it so much as, well, Trump attacked Assad, so he'll attack me.
00:43:33.000I think he sees that as kind of a green light from Trump that if I don't get my stuff together, if I don't negotiate, he'll go to war with me.
00:43:43.000And I think maybe we just disagree on what the a priori reasoning would be in Pyongyang.
00:44:22.000The final thing you said is what we disagree on the most is I don't think he would give up his nukes if he was fearful of a US military strike.
00:44:35.000The reason why these rogue countries, not just North Korea, Iran's a good example, the reason why they get nukes is because they know if they get them, they're not going to become another Libya.
00:44:48.000They're not going to become another Syria or another Iraq.
00:45:32.000And if that's why he gave it up, then I don't understand why the North Korean regime didn't give it up when George W. Bush invaded Iraq or when Obama started the war in Syria and started bombing Libya, right?
00:45:46.000Or forced regime change twice in Egypt, right?
00:45:50.000Our country has been very aggressive in its foreign policy, very assertive.
00:45:56.000I mean, George W. Bush mentioned North Korea as part of the axis of evil.
00:46:01.000If this strong, aggressive, assertive approach Worked so well to create peace.
00:46:07.000Why didn't we get peace earlier with North Korea?
00:46:11.000But to kind of follow up on that, I think really what caused the peace process was several things.
00:46:19.000One thing you already mentioned years of sanctions.
00:46:22.000You know, those sanctions have been around forever.
00:46:25.000And I think at this point, they see, you know, how well the West has developed and they want some of that money because, you know, maybe it's some negotiations that Trump is pulling with China.
00:46:38.000Maybe China's putting pressure on them.
00:46:40.000We don't know what's happening in the background.
00:46:43.000But I think that is far more likely China putting pressure on them than us, than Trump appearing crazy.
00:48:03.000So I sent her a text as soon as that peace deal was announced, or as soon as they announced some intention to do something, I was like, haha, do you feel wrong about Trump now, mom?
00:49:04.000I think just by picking the fight, just by flexing our muscles, so to speak, you know, we kind of like we hit the gym and just showed what we can do on social media and via various distant right wing websites, putting up that phone number to the White House, showing that we can churn out calls.
00:49:22.000We can bomb the White House, metaphorically speaking, of course, with phone calls and emails, et cetera, and going out there in public and saying, We're against the Zionist war and pointing out who is behind it.
00:49:34.000And you've done a good job of that, right?
00:49:46.000And I think that's a message we have to put out there.
00:49:49.000And the vehicle through which we can put it out there is through this activism, through, you know, whenever Trump.
00:49:56.000Makes a misstep in our eyes in the Middle East.
00:49:59.000We can be out there saying no more wars, right?
00:50:02.000The American public is tired of these Middle Eastern wars.
00:50:05.000We can be out there saying no more wars, connect with the American public on that issue, and then take another step and say, like, well, who's really behind this?
00:50:15.000Who's really pushing for these wars that are not in our interest, right?
00:50:20.000And I think the activism in and of itself is just valuable from that perspective, even if it doesn't have an impact on public policy.
00:50:44.000I don't disagree with anything you just said about activism.
00:50:47.000The only, again, my only contention about activism, which I think is always misunderstood, is so long as it's within the confines of pressure or Changing people's minds or building up our network or building morale, whatever.
00:51:06.000Once it crosses the line into electoral politics doesn't matter, once it crosses the line into the black pill, that's only then do I have a problem with it because it really scares me when you have people that are out there like yourself that say no war in Syria.
00:51:25.000But it scares me when other people who are disingenuous, frankly, who don't believe in electoral politics, they never supported Trump, they don't support Trump.
00:51:41.000We're not going to vote in the midterms and we're not going to vote in 2020.
00:51:44.000That's the kind of thing that scares me because if you get that kind of demoralization in the movement, sometimes it could even have the opposite effect.
00:51:53.000We want the activism to charge up the base and energize the base and mobilize them.
00:51:58.000Like you said, get them fired up about these issues and grow the movement.
00:52:01.000What we don't want is for people to be so pessimistic and so cynical and so.
00:52:07.000Hopeless, that they're turned away, they're turned off, and they don't want anything to do with that.
00:52:11.000And I think that's a fine line to walk.
00:52:13.000And I think you acknowledge that's a problem as well, but we have to really find a balance there.
00:52:19.000And I'm willing to say, you know, I was right there with the caravan telling people, call the White House, tell them to stop the caravan.
00:52:25.000I was right there when the chemical attacks happened saying, this is bogus, this is a lie, that probably didn't happen, and all the rest.
00:52:34.000However, and I'll even agree to disagree.
00:52:37.000About whether or not the serious strikes were symbolic.
00:52:40.000But my only real problem at the end of the day is not with people who say Trump did something I disagreed with and whatever.
00:52:48.000My problem is with people who say Trump did something I disagreed with and therefore he has no value or no more value than Hillary Clinton and therefore there's no value in electoral politics.
00:52:59.000And that scares the hell out of me because you have people in this movement that, you know, like we had many super chats on this show in the past few days that say it's hopeless.
00:53:30.000But on the serious strikes, I mean, look, I basically, I'm at the point where it's just agree to disagree.
00:53:36.000I think whether or not to maybe mend a little bit, to.
00:53:41.000Reach out and maybe try and find an olive branch.
00:53:45.000I will say that whether or not it's you believe it's viable, whether or not you believe it's successful that Trump bombs something and North Korea responds, I think very clearly we can see by what happened that that was the intention, right?
00:53:58.000I think maybe you say, well, did that motivate the peace process?
00:54:21.000I think when you look at it like that, or last year's, the context of it where Xi Jinping was at Mar-a-Lago, I think whether or not it's working or that's a good idea, I think that was the intention.
00:54:32.000And so we could disagree if that was a good or a bad idea, but could you at least agree that given how it played out, it's kind of hard to deny that that was symbolic?
00:54:44.000I mean, maybe the intention was symbolic.
00:54:48.000But listen, Nick, like if someone, if say I was like, hey, Nick, you've really pissed me off about this North Korea thing or Syria, whatever, right?
00:54:59.000Whatever you do, don't go into your kitchen tomorrow.
00:55:06.000And then I bomb your kitchen, you'd be pretty pissed off at me, I feel like.
00:55:10.000And for a good reason, maybe you raided your fridge and transported all your rotisserie chicken or whatever into your basement fridge or something.
00:55:22.000Maybe you got all the good cutlery out and all the plates and everything, and I bombed an empty kitchen.
00:55:27.000But hey, that's still your kitchen, right?
00:55:31.000And you wouldn't be too happy about that.
00:55:33.000And that's kind of how I think about this whole, the latest Syria strike.
00:55:37.000Uh, you know, where we bomb empty buildings like their research facilities, I don't know if they had time to get everything from those research facilities or how that worked out.
00:55:47.000Uh, but yeah, I mean, we committed an act of aggression.
00:55:51.000And if I were Syrian, right, I'd be pretty pissed off because, like, Assad, you know, he's not perfect or anything, uh, but he's definitely better than the alternative.
00:56:01.000Why are you bombing my government, right?
00:56:04.000Um, and that's that's the problem with blowback, you know, and like you said, Syria used to be.
00:56:09.000You know, maybe they weren't our best friend or anything, but, you know, we could do extraordinary rendition to Syria and they would torture our terrorists for us, right?
00:56:20.000And I think, you know, putting my civil libertarian past aside here, I think that can be a valuable relationship, right?
00:56:28.000And we're just kind of throwing all of that away.
00:56:31.000We're saying, hey, you know, like, when we have a neoliberal president like Obama in office, we'll just throw away the relationship.
00:56:40.000And then our supposedly America first non interventionist president who follows him is going to continue with the last president's policy of regime change, or maybe not like we're explicitly going to try to change your regime, but we're going to hurt you here and there.
00:57:48.000Our media, of course, paints them all as insane, all their rulers, their dictators, as crazy.
00:57:54.000I think maybe they don't fit our Western tastes for relatively liberal government and democracy and so on, but I do think they are pretty rational.
00:58:07.000I don't think that Kim Jong un is testing ICBNs and develop nukes or whatever.
00:58:16.000I don't think he did that because he plans on.
00:58:25.000I think he did that, or he's doing all of that.
00:58:27.000He's done all of that because he realizes if he has a nuke, and especially if he has a nuke with the capability to strike America, that he's going to be a lot safer.
00:58:39.000Now, I think what changed his mind in the past year, let's say, right, is the olive branch extended from Korea, maybe something Trump.
00:58:53.000I mean, like I said, Pompeo met with Kim Jong un April 1st, right before the serious tricks.
00:58:59.000So, we know diplomacy has been happening on the back end.
00:59:02.000We know that Trump has been dealing with China, which is the main provider of pretty much everything to North Korea.
00:59:11.000So, if he can get China to exert some pressure in exchange for Trump not slamming China with new tariffs, maybe that accomplished something.
01:00:48.000I think, you know, like I said, the hashtag is a little too far, but, you know, Jazz Hands isn't out there telling people to quit politics or whatever, right?
01:01:00.000He was doing that because he was trying to generate phone calls.
01:01:03.000He was raising awareness about the serious strike issue, et cetera, et cetera.
01:01:07.000And, you know, we look at movement leaders.
01:01:10.000Of various types, and I don't see any of them telling people to quit and drop out.
01:03:20.000I mean, to compare the United States military to the Saudi military is a joke, but it's a question of, Would you rather have it be them or us?
01:03:31.000So on Syria, I think either way, it's too early to blame him for that.
01:03:36.000You know, you got to at least give him half a term.
01:03:40.000On the nuclear deterrent, you keep saying, well, North Korea's got a nuclear deterrent, and why would they give up their nuclear deterrent if we're striking other countries?
01:03:50.000Well, if the deterrent becomes the liability, well, that would be the reason why.
01:03:56.000If the United States is saying, insofar as you determine this deterrent, We will attack you.
01:04:02.000Well, then it essentially ceases to be a deterrent and becomes the opposite.
01:04:06.000If Trump, more than any other president, reaches his hand out and says, Look, if you just give it up, we will make assurances like you wouldn't believe, but otherwise we will destroy you, the deterrent becomes the very thing that it is supposed to defend against.
01:04:23.000When he invaded Iraq and Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath, Syria gave up, voluntarily gave up their chemical weapons program.
01:04:31.000And Libya voluntarily gave up their nuclear program.
01:04:34.000Actually, Muammar Gaddafi, immediately after the Iraq war, sent all their nuclear program over to a location, I think, in Tennessee in the United States.
01:04:44.000And so the war in Iraq and Afghanistan brought about nuclear deterrence or nuclear, excuse me, nuclear nonproliferation in Libya.
01:08:25.000This is an important idea to drive home and an important framework to explain to people because if we think that strength works, right?
01:08:35.000Then the next time there's a George W. Bush who wants to invade Iraq, right?
01:08:39.000We're all going to be like, yeah, it's going to show us, show the world we're super strong, and then they're going to do whatever we want, right?
01:08:45.000I don't think that's how diplomacy works.
01:08:47.000I think a lot of these countries, especially like the North Koreas, the Irans, when they see us doing that, they want to arm up.
01:08:55.000That's the rational response because it's either that or they get on board with our neoliberal program.
01:09:03.000And, you know, that's not something they're going to do.
01:09:19.000I mean, of course, it's a cogent point, and it's one that's made by a lot of people that what happened to Muammar Gaddafi?
01:09:25.000Yes, this is why North Korea is developing a nuclear arsenal.
01:09:28.000But we return to the point at hand, which is if the deterrent becomes a liability, it ceases to be an adequate deterrent, which if Trump can demonstrate, That he is, as you say, mad enough to destroy North Korea, even if they have nuclear weapons.
01:09:45.000If he can demonstrate he's willing to use force and he's crazy enough to do it, then the nuclear weapons, it doesn't matter.
01:09:52.000If the two options are destroyed for having nuclear weapons or not destroyed, maybe destroyed at a later date, the immediate decision is not difficult for North Korea.
01:10:03.000And I'm not saying that sanctions aren't a factor, I'm not saying that the strikes are the only thing.
01:10:09.000But you look at that strike, And whether or not you agree that it works, whether or not you think it makes sense or whatever, there is simply no denying that the intention was to be symbolic.
01:10:20.000What else would be the intention to blow up three empty buildings unless there's something we don't know, unless like a copy of the Constitution was in there or I don't know, like the Ark of the Covenant?
01:10:29.000You don't warn for five days that you're going to strike.
01:10:33.000You don't call the Russians and make sure they're okay with it and then strike three empty buildings and then do nothing else.
01:10:44.000John Bolton proposed that we wipe out their entire air force.
01:10:47.000We do a massive raid, and that would have changed the military situation on the ground.
01:10:52.000The strike that was done, it's reported by Syria and Russia that it changed nothing about the battle on the ground.
01:10:57.000So there's not a strategic explanation.
01:11:00.000I don't really think it makes sense any other way than that you blow up these three empty buildings after warning, after warning, after warning, other than to be symbolic.
01:11:09.000You don't have to agree that it makes sense or that it worked, but I think that was the intention.
01:11:14.000Why I think it works, why I think it does make sense, is because regardless of whether or not Libya was killed or Gaddafi or any of that, they have three carrier strike groups in the Pacific.
01:11:25.000Trump is saying, I promise I will destroy you if you don't denuke.
01:11:29.000And here, I blew up that guy and I said I would too.
01:11:32.000So Kim Jong un, he may be thinking, well, I should keep these because otherwise they'll attack.
01:11:38.000But then Trump is saying, if you don't give them up, I'll attack anyway.
01:11:41.000So that's why that calculus, like, I understand it.
01:11:45.000Maybe that was the calculus before we had an administration that was really pushing the brinksmanship with North Korea.
01:11:51.000They could do with that with Barack Obama because Barack Obama wasn't threatening them on Twitter and they didn't have three carriers in the Pacific.
01:11:58.000But with Trump, That's what's happening.
01:12:03.000I think you're basically just denying the facts of the strike, and I think you're denying the context of the Trump administration and their approach to Korea.
01:12:17.000No, I mean, I think you're denying the context of what's happening in the Koreas right now.
01:12:22.000I mean, for example, their nuclear test site collapsed, right?
01:13:39.000And I just don't find that a very convincing or persuasive argument, you know, because like all you have to do is look at every other dictator that gave up their deterrent, right?
01:14:24.000No, but look, I'll be impressed if Trump gets something done with Iran, but I don't think the bricksmanship, the whole aggressive behavior gets everything done because, you know, if it did work, then it would have worked for George W. Bush.
01:14:39.000I think it would have worked for Obama because, you know, people on the right, conservatives, the more mainstream conservatives, And you're kind of echoing this argument in some ways.
01:14:51.000You know, they all think like, oh, Obama was weak, blah, blah, blah.
01:14:54.000Well, I mean, Obama forced regime change in Egypt twice.
01:15:00.000He, you know, started everything that's happening in Syria.
01:15:03.000He bombed Libya and, you know, armed the rebels in Syria and in Libya.
01:15:10.000He did all of these other things that, you know, had Trump done him, then we'd have, you know, John Bolton and what's that Hungarian guy with the weird accent?
01:16:47.000And unless you can finesse it with diplomacy, they would have to come into contact, right?
01:16:52.000I mean, there's just no resolving the fact that it's a zero sum game between those two objectives.
01:16:57.000If the United States achieves their objectives, North Korea doesn't have a weapon.
01:17:01.000North Korea does, they reject the United States' strategy.
01:17:04.000So, if you understand that that's where they're coming from, I think what Trump did was persuade North Korea that their grand strategy was wrong, essentially.
01:17:15.000I think with those serious strikes, he changed that calculation where the nuclear arsenal, instead of being the guarantor of their safety, became the greatest liability that they had.
01:17:26.000And that's why, and I agree with you, the diplomacy is a part of it.
01:17:30.000The economic sanctions are a part of it.
01:17:32.000South Korea's president, it's all a part of it.
01:17:34.000But I think Trump convincing North Korea, but also China, that he was serious about war, that in spite of a nuclear deterrent, he would go in anyway.
01:17:44.000And it wouldn't even matter because it wouldn't deter him.
01:17:49.000I think he convinced both Beijing and Pyongyang, maybe even more so Beijing, that he was serious about war, and therefore they had to get serious about peace.
01:17:58.000Because otherwise, If there is that contradiction and the United States says we won't compromise, we won't be patient, we won't allow it, everybody knows the United States would win.
01:18:08.000And that'd be a bad thing for North Korea and China.
01:18:18.000And I think it was not all of it, but I think it was necessary that it happened.
01:18:23.000But I'll give you the last, you can rebut, and I'll give you the last word, and then we could do closing thoughts.
01:18:32.000There's not much to rebut because we do have just fundamentally different frameworks.
01:18:37.000I think it is much more likely than rather than convincing them to give up their deterrent by showing them that Trump is mad enough that he might just strike them, which would cost millions of civilian lives pretty much instantly gone because of all the, even without the nuke, all of their conventional weaponry, right, along the border, like they can take out Seoul, right?
01:19:02.000But I think far more likely is the dealings that Trump has had with China behind the scenes.
01:19:11.000He could threaten to slap them with tariffs, pursue something in the WTO for their currency manipulation, et cetera.
01:19:22.000And I think he's using that as leverage to get China to put pressure on North Korea because we haven't really seen much else get done with China.
01:19:31.000And so I think that's what Trump has been doing, trying to solve this Korea issue by using China.
01:19:40.000And The all the other diplomacy that I already mentioned, so I don't want to bore you know listeners with uh by reiterating myself.
01:19:49.000Um, but I think you know, leaving that aside, regardless of what you think about this, I think the outrage that people on the dissident right showed about the serious strikes, right?
01:20:02.000I think that was good because it shows that we have a backbone, we're independent, we're not just here to cheerlead politicians, right?
01:20:12.000And that shows politicians in the future who You know, rely on us for support.
01:20:53.000But those are the two main defining issues for us, for our movement.
01:20:58.000I think by showing the public, showing President Trump that we care about this issue, I think he's going to think twice when it comes to foreign policy, maybe.
01:21:09.000I think also it just shows the general public, like, hey, we're the only serious game in town when it comes to opposing more wars overseas, right?
01:21:18.000And I think that's going to help us grow.
01:21:20.000I think when it comes to issues like the Syria strikes, I think the distant right wing needs to be more vocal and needs to start getting back into meat space, into the real world, and show hey, we're going to protest this, the Syria strike, we're going to be anti war.
01:21:42.000And who is it that is pushing for more war?
01:21:54.000Right, Antifa's not protesting the war, the left isn't protesting the war, Democrats aren't protesting the war.
01:22:01.000The real anti war movement is on the right.
01:22:03.000So, if you're anti war, which a lot of people in America, I think, after Iraq, after Afghanistan, they've grown tired, but they don't have good answers.
01:22:12.000And I think this is our opportunity to get answers out to the public about foreign policy and who controls our foreign policy.
01:22:53.000Hope you all enjoyed a real treat and a nice guy, a friend of mine for a while now.
01:23:00.000We've been friends for probably about a year and a half, year and a quarter.
01:23:04.000So, a good man, and he knows his stuff about the electoral stuff.
01:23:08.000He knows his stuff about activism, and he's really an asset for the movement.
01:23:13.000It's a shame that we don't have more people like him, just generally, and it's a shame we don't have more people like him in leadership.
01:23:21.000You know, we've got no shortage of intellectuals, podcast hosts that think they're going to lead the movement or they're putting things together.
01:23:29.000We need people like him that are either at the head or they're advising people at the head because that's the kind of logistical and just pragmatic.
01:23:38.000Knowledge, information that we're going to need to really push forward and move forward.
01:25:41.0002%, well, I'm 100% nicker, and I'm 2% African.
01:25:48.000Which allows me to say the other word.
01:25:50.000So if it ever comes out, if I ever say it, and I never would say anything vulgar like that, you know, God forbid you would ever say, you can never say that.
01:26:00.000But if, God forbid, I ever wanted to say it for any reason, I can.
01:26:04.000And nobody can tell me otherwise because I'm black, 2% black.
01:26:08.000So some white boy wants to explain to me about what I can and can't say?
01:27:18.000Sommerled's Ghost says, Those counter signaling Alex either have a sub 85 IQ or haven't participated in effective activism or campaign politics.
01:29:42.000Who says, it is possible that you are both correct.
01:29:45.000It's entirely possible that a maximum pressure campaign in conjunction with China, as well as threats and a show of force, are all valid reasons.
01:31:01.000So I think we're ready to throw in the towel for tonight.
01:31:04.000We're ready to just resign for the night.
01:31:09.000A quick update, though, for anybody that's interested on the woman situation.
01:31:14.000I talked briefly on Monday's show about a situation with some woman in the Discord.
01:31:18.000It turns out she was playing both me and Spencer.
01:31:22.000We talked last night before our appearance because remember, I said Spencer was kind of going along with what was going on.
01:31:28.000People, maybe people don't remember from Monday, but long story short, there's these two thoughts from my college that are really causing trouble with me.
01:31:37.000You know, we're just kind of hanging out now.
01:31:39.000Show's basically over, but now it's just you and me hanging out casually as friends do and me telling you about what's going on in my life.
01:31:48.000These two girls from my college are now causing all this trouble where one of them is a literal prostitute, gets paid for things.
01:31:57.000And the other one has got mental issues.
01:32:00.000And both of them now are coming at me with all their force.
01:32:03.000They're trying to turn me and Spencer against each other.
01:32:06.000One of them texted Richard Spencer saying, Nick is going around telling everyone who will listen that you're blackmailing him.
01:32:12.000And I know how you could blackmail him for real.
01:32:15.000And trying to turn me and Spencer against each other.
01:32:19.000They're going to apparently go into the press and tell everybody how a 15 year old was making rape jokes in my Discord server.
01:33:54.000People are like, you have a Wikipedia page.
01:33:56.000I go and look at it, and on the top, it's like, this may not meet our guidelines of, what is it? Prominence, where it's like this person's not famous enough to have a Wikipedia page, it really hurt my ego.
01:34:50.000Thanks to the Super Chatters, the Streamlabs donors, the Bit people on Twitch, and the Rainbow Coin people on Periscope, whatever the currency they use there.
01:35:01.000And thanks to everybody who watches, everybody who shares the show, and all the rest.