America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - July 01, 2025


IRAN WAR DEBATE: Dinesh D’Souza vs Nick Fuentes


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 41 minutes

Words per minute

187.1538

Word count

30,138

Sentence count

2,584

Harmful content

Misogyny

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

258

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Conspiracy Theories, host Alex Blumberg is joined by his good friend and long time supporter, Nick Fuentez, to discuss the U.S. government trying to take control of our government through any means necessary.

Transcript

Transcripts from "America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:42.000 Not interested.
00:00:43.000 I'm sorry.
00:00:44.000 I'm sorry, Brittany Betsy, but I just can't do it.
00:00:46.000 You're an e-girl. 1.00
00:00:47.000 You know the rule.
00:00:48.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:00:49.000 Who's got the clip?
00:00:51.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:00:52.000 Never.
00:00:53.000 Hashtag never e-girls. 0.96
00:00:55.000 Not even once.
00:01:03.000 I've never heard of a big one.
00:01:05.000 Who's that?
00:01:06.000 I've never heard of a big one.
00:01:22.000 The Umer generation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human. 1.00
00:01:28.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:01:32.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:02:01.000 Not interested.
00:02:02.000 I'm sorry.
00:02:03.000 I'm sorry, Brittany Betsy, but I just can't do it.
00:02:05.000 You're an e-girl. 1.00
00:02:06.000 You know the rule.
00:02:07.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:02:08.000 Who's got the clip?
00:02:10.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:02:11.000 Never.
00:02:12.000 Hashtag never e-girls. 0.96
00:02:14.000 Not even once.
00:02:23.000 I've never heard of a big one.
00:02:24.000 What is that?
00:02:25.000 I've never heard of a big one.
00:02:41.000 The Umer generation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human beings. 1.00
00:02:47.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:02:51.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:03:20.000 Not interested.
00:03:21.000 I'm sorry.
00:03:22.000 I'm sorry, Brittany Betsy, but I just can't do it.
00:03:24.000 You're an e-girl. 1.00
00:03:25.000 You know the rule.
00:03:26.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:03:28.000 Who's got the clip?
00:03:29.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:03:30.000 Never.
00:03:31.000 Hashtag never e-girls. 0.96
00:03:33.000 not even once I've never heard of a big one.
00:03:44.000 What is that?
00:03:44.000 I've never heard of a big one.
00:04:00.000 The Umer generation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human. 1.00
00:04:06.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:04:10.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:04:39.000 Not interested.
00:04:40.000 I'm sorry.
00:04:41.000 I'm sorry, Brittany, Betsy, but I just can't do it.
00:04:43.000 You're an e-girl. 1.00
00:04:44.000 You know the rule.
00:04:45.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:04:47.000 Who's got the clip?
00:04:48.000 No e-girls. 1.00
00:04:50.000 Never.
00:04:50.000 Hashtag never e-girls.
00:04:52.000 Not even once.
00:05:01.000 I've never heard of him.
00:05:02.000 What is that?
00:05:03.000 I've never heard of him.
00:05:19.000 The Umer generation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human. 1.00
00:05:25.000 Americanism, not globalism, will be our freedom.
00:05:49.000 And we are live at 6:59 and 37 seconds.
00:05:54.000 The main transmission starts in 20 seconds.
00:05:57.000 We're getting Danes and Souza and Nick Fuentez on the video link right now.
00:06:02.000 So take a live fee from Rolls-Jones from Rumble, from Infowars.com forward slash show.
00:06:08.000 You're the Paul Revere's.
00:06:10.000 The big debate, uncensored, unfiltered, starts right now.
00:06:13.000 You're the Paul Revere's.
00:06:14.000 Share that link to defend the First Amendment and America.
00:06:19.000 We are the number one hated and attacked media organization in the world by every evil, disgusting, sickening organization on the face of the planet.
00:06:28.000 And I'm going to say it.
00:06:29.000 If you're going to go, go as big as you can.
00:06:31.000 That's why John Hancock literally saw people signing their names, Lil Bitty, and people he knew signing them.
00:06:36.000 You really couldn't tell who they were.
00:06:37.000 And I get it.
00:06:37.000 Every person signing that was signing their potential death warrant.
00:06:40.000 He got up there and went boom and he said, If I'm going to have the king coming after me, I want him to come after me, number one.
00:06:46.000 That's a pretty large signature, Johnny.
00:06:48.000 Yeah, and I'm going to risk my life fighting tyranny.
00:06:50.000 Anybody that's ever been in fights, you're not looking for fights, but you've been in a few.
00:06:53.000 You learn, you hesitate when somebody's trying to beat the hell out of you.
00:06:56.000 You're going to get your ass kicked.
00:06:57.000 But you just decide to beat the living hell out of them and stop worrying about who's winning.
00:07:01.000 And you're going to win almost every time unless you're fighting Mike Tyson.
00:07:04.000 I know people will knock you upside the head really hard and like sit back and look at what it did.
00:07:08.000 Or somebody will hit you in the side of the head with baseball bat and they'll kind of sit back and watch to see what it did.
00:07:14.000 I'm like a Terminator.
00:07:17.000 You're about to find out.
00:07:18.000 I'll suck that bat up your ass and turn you into a popsicle. 1.00
00:07:22.000 So that's what's going on here.
00:07:23.000 And I love it because we're drawing their fire.
00:07:26.000 We've exposed them.
00:07:27.000 We've drawn them out of their rat holes to do all of this.
00:07:30.000 The Soros scum and the Soros DA and just all of them.
00:07:34.000 They're filth.
00:07:35.000 They're disgusting tyrants. 0.95
00:07:38.000 Just like judges in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.
00:07:41.000 They're disgusting.
00:07:42.000 And it's like we're in the dark and they got night vision.
00:07:44.000 We're in a pitch black arena with no light and they've got their illuminators on and they can see us and we can't see them.
00:07:51.000 Well, guess what?
00:07:52.000 I walked over with my listeners collectively and pulled the switch and turned the lights on.
00:07:59.000 The real war's here with the Globalists and Soros and Obama and the New World Order and BlackRob. 1.00
00:08:06.000 They've declared war on us and we accept the challenge.
00:08:09.000 We're taking the country back.
00:08:12.000 Their attacks on Trump, their law fair, all the criminal activity.
00:08:16.000 How'd that work out for them?
00:08:17.000 They were dumb enough to brag.
00:08:18.000 Remember everywhere.
00:08:19.000 It'll be over for Trump when this mugshot comes out in Georgia.
00:08:23.000 Haha, we're finally getting it.
00:08:25.000 Every channel, remember?
00:08:26.000 It's the end.
00:08:27.000 The mugshot, the mugshot, the mugshot.
00:08:29.000 And then Trump nails it with a beyond Clint Eastwood, badass American eagle gaze of total defiance that everybody looks at and knows deep down that's the alpha male.
00:08:41.000 That's the badass.
00:08:43.000 That's the defiant real person.
00:08:44.000 You can't fake that look.
00:08:46.000 And then when they shot him, he got even more of that look, except the lips pulled down and the teeth bared and the eyes bugging out.
00:08:54.000 Yes, yes, we get to see who's really who at times like this, don't we?
00:09:00.000 And now the bad guys are gonna find out who's really who, aren't you?
00:09:05.000 Because the veneer of civilization is burning off.
00:09:10.000 And all the posers and all the thugs and all the boys who thought they had this country on its knees and cowed are now just beginning to understand that they have awoken the terrible giant.
00:09:54.000 Through the annals of time, beneath the clashing swords and roaring cannons, there raged another war, unseen yet all-encompassing.
00:10:03.000 The InfoWar.
00:10:05.000 From the whispered conspiracies of ancient courts, to the fiery proclamations of revolutions, it was there.
00:10:14.000 When the flames of heresy consumed the thinkers of old, it was there.
00:10:20.000 When tyrants rose on the lies of propaganda and empires crumbled beneath the truth they couldn't silence, it was there.
00:10:29.000 The info war marched alongside the armies of men.
00:10:33.000 The battle was not just for land or power.
00:10:36.000 But these colonies are, and have a right ought to be, free and independent states.
00:10:44.000 But for the hearts and minds and souls of those caught in its wake.
00:10:49.000 More now than ever, the war rages on.
00:10:52.000 Nations crumble, ideologies clash, and voices rise in defiance.
00:10:56.000 For the battlefield of the InfoWar is everywhere, and everyone is a soldier.
00:11:01.000 Truth is your weapon.
00:11:03.000 Through every conflict, every uprising, and every moment of human struggle, the InfoWar was always there. 0.95
00:11:09.000 Which side are you on?
00:11:11.000 This is the fight for humanity.
00:11:14.000 This is InfoWars.
00:11:18.000 Real leadership, the essence of leadership, is showing people how it's done so that they understand it's the right way and getting them to adopt it.
00:11:29.000 And being a leader means you go against the tide when the tide is wrong.
00:11:33.000 You go against the crowd when the crowd is wrong.
00:11:36.000 You go against the establishment when the establishment is degenerate and sick.
00:11:40.000 And then by example and by confidence and by will and by strength, then the timid join you because then it costs nothing to be a patriot, quote the great Mark Twain.
00:11:51.000 In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man, hated, feared, and scorned.
00:11:56.000 But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him because then it cost nothing to be a patriot.
00:12:06.000 The patriot is a scarce man, hated, feared, scorned.
00:12:12.000 But in time, when his cause succeeds, the timid join him because then it cost nothing to be a patriot.
00:12:26.000 And when you commit to something worthy and good, it is not a weight.
00:12:31.000 It is everything.
00:12:33.000 It is your greatest strength.
00:12:36.000 It becomes your soul to risk your life for freedom.
00:12:40.000 It's what God forged you in his mind as he created your soul before he even put you in your mother's womb.
00:12:48.000 He knew you.
00:13:09.000 Well, here I am, on the road again.
00:13:16.000 There I am, up on the stage.
00:13:22.000 Here I go, playing the star again.
00:13:28.000 There I go.
00:13:30.000 Turn the page.
00:13:32.000 Look there in the spotlight, you're a million miles away.
00:13:49.000 Every ounce of energy you try to give.
00:13:54.000 Give way as the sweat pulls out your body like the music that you play.
00:14:01.000 Yeah.
00:14:03.000 you Well, this is what it's all about.
00:14:07.000 Tuesday evening, July 1st, 2025, 7.07 Central Standard Time.
00:14:14.000 I am your embattled host, Alex Jones, coming to you from Deep in the Heart of Texas, broadcasting worldwide this evening.
00:14:22.000 And we are about to host a two-hour, uncensored, unfiltered, real debate.
00:14:30.000 Not where there's a whole bunch of canned questions, not where it's a bunch of corporate shills up there controlling the narrative, but where two very intelligent, at the same time, very different people from their perspective have a real debate.
00:14:43.000 They can go three hours if they want.
00:14:45.000 We're scheduled for two.
00:14:46.000 But when we get into the next hour, we will take questions.
00:14:50.000 We're going to post very soon up on X above the live feet of this, so we can get some of those questions in from X and have your questions.
00:14:58.000 I have a few questions for later.
00:15:00.000 I imagine those will already probably be answered on both of their own prerogative.
00:15:07.000 So Dinesh D'Souza, I've known him for 20 years, was watching him and saw speeches he gave when he worked for Ronald Reagan as a cabinet official, best-selling author, filmmaker, former political prisoner, a true American success story.
00:15:21.000 Dinesh D'Souza.com on X at Dinesh D'Souza, host of the D'Souza podcast.
00:15:28.000 And then the 26-year-old phenomenon.
00:15:31.000 I mean, I've known who this guy is for nine years.
00:15:35.000 Exploded on the scene during the 2016 campaign, Nick Fuentez, America First, at NickJ.
00:15:44.000 Fuentez, NicholasJ.
00:15:45.000 Fuentez.com.
00:15:46.000 And he's very proud of his commoner roots, which I am as well.
00:15:50.000 But he's Nicholas J. Fuentez is by always sent us as a college dropout from Chicago.
00:15:54.000 He was in his early 20s, 26.
00:15:56.000 He worked on a campaign for Donald Trump in 2016 and hosts a nightly show called America First that is reaching tens of millions of people a day conservatively.
00:16:05.000 So both men are very different in different ways, but obviously in general, are obviously both very articulate and very popular.
00:16:14.000 And so we're not going to have classic debate standards here, but I want to give each person a five-minute opening statement here tonight.
00:16:23.000 And I should also add, I mean, you know, you can see the promos and everything, why you're here.
00:16:29.000 We're having a debate about the Iran-Israel war slash crisis, APAC, lobbies, the Mulahs, sleeper cells, the FATAWA, unprecedented issued by the number three Mulah calling for Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu's death and basically death for anybody that supports them. 0.77
00:16:49.000 They admittedly have big sleeper cells.
00:16:51.000 I mean, this is a declaration of war.
00:16:53.000 It's gotten very little coverage.
00:16:54.000 I think Trump's trying to ignore it and hoping it's just a threat.
00:16:57.000 But this is off to the races.
00:16:59.000 So I'm going to flip this silver coin to decide who is going to have the first five minutes here.
00:17:12.000 So I'll just say Dinesh D'Souza's heads, Nick Fuentez is tails.
00:17:17.000 Here we go.
00:17:19.000 And it is Dinesh D'Souza.
00:17:23.000 All right.
00:17:23.000 So we will go now to Dinesh D'Souza and get his first five minutes.
00:17:28.000 Then we'll go right to Nick Fuentez.
00:17:30.000 And then after that, you probably won't hear from me for almost 30, 45 minutes.
00:17:34.000 I'm going to try to shut up and have a real debate because there's nothing more frustrating than these debates where there's constant eruptions.
00:17:40.000 So Dinesh, thanks for accepting this debate.
00:17:44.000 And I'm glad it happened, glad it got done.
00:17:46.000 Thank you so much.
00:17:47.000 You've got the floor for the next five minutes.
00:17:50.000 Thank you, Alex.
00:17:51.000 Welcome, Nick.
00:17:53.000 I am looking forward to our debate.
00:17:56.000 And, you know, it's, I'm thrilled to do it because free speech has been under attack.
00:18:05.000 And you guys, Alex, Nick, Laura Loomer, and others have been deplatformed.
00:18:12.000 I am a strong opponent of all of this.
00:18:16.000 And for this reason, even though some people were like, why do you want to debate Nick Fuentes?
00:18:22.000 I'm like, no, there are taboo issues here that are being raised.
00:18:27.000 They're not being adequately discussed.
00:18:29.000 Some people run away from them.
00:18:31.000 I don't run away from them.
00:18:33.000 And I think it's a good idea to sort of have it out.
00:18:35.000 And so that's really why I'm here.
00:18:39.000 I want to defend Trump.
00:18:42.000 I want to defend MAGA, make America great again.
00:18:46.000 I want to defend America first.
00:18:49.000 It seems to me we have a big disagreement here about what America first means.
00:18:55.000 And that's what I want to talk about.
00:18:58.000 When we talk about making America great again, it's important to think about what made America great in the first place.
00:19:07.000 Now, one obvious answer to that is that America became great by kind of looking inward and attending to its own problems, going back to the founders.
00:19:16.000 But that is not only not entirely true, it's not true at all.
00:19:22.000 Right after the American founding, Thomas Jefferson found out that there were these Barbary pirates in the Middle East.
00:19:29.000 Now, they weren't attacking America.
00:19:31.000 They weren't starting a war over here.
00:19:34.000 But Jefferson basically dispatched an armed force to collobber them, to beat the heck out of them.
00:19:40.000 Why?
00:19:41.000 Because they were disrupting our interests.
00:19:44.000 They were disrupting our trade.
00:19:46.000 They were hurting our position in the world.
00:19:48.000 So even though we had this infant democracy, collobbering bad guys is something that we started doing from the very beginning.
00:19:55.000 Now, fast forward to, you know, Alex, you and I are in Texas, and let's talk about the middle of the 19th century.
00:20:02.000 Again, America's building a strong country.
00:20:04.000 It's focused inward.
00:20:05.000 But guess what?
00:20:06.000 We get into a big war with Mexico.
00:20:08.000 The Mexican War lasts about four years.
00:20:11.000 We start it.
00:20:12.000 We started the Mexican War.
00:20:14.000 We go over there, get our troops into Mexico City, clobber the Mexicans, take a good chunk of Mexico, including a good chunk of Texas. 1.00
00:20:22.000 Later, large parts of the country that were not part of America become added to the country.
00:20:27.000 And we do this basically by force.
00:20:30.000 Now, we have good reasons for it.
00:20:31.000 I'm not going to go into the reasons, but the point is we did it.
00:20:35.000 Fast forward now, I'm going to omit World War II and focus on Reagan.
00:20:40.000 The Soviet empire is gaining strength.
00:20:42.000 The Soviet Union grabs nine countries, 10 countries actually, between 1974 and 1980.
00:20:49.000 They don't attack us.
00:20:50.000 They're not waging war over here.
00:20:53.000 And Reagan does not start a war with them either.
00:20:56.000 But what he does do is he starts clobbering them in all kinds of ways.
00:21:00.000 He clobbers them in Afghanistan. 1.00
00:21:02.000 He clobbers them in Somalia, in Angola, in Mozambique, in Nicaragua. 0.99
00:21:07.000 And we do it by supporting armed forces that are repelling these Soviet armies, and we win the Cold War.
00:21:13.000 Who can deny that the world is better off and America is better off?
00:21:17.000 That is America first. 0.96
00:21:18.000 And that is making America great again.
00:21:21.000 So when we're talking about making America great again, it has never meant, and it doesn't mean for Trump, a kind of isolationism.
00:21:31.000 I would even deny that it means no new wars.
00:21:33.000 And I say that because no president, no president who takes an oath to support the Constitution can make that absolute guarantee.
00:21:41.000 There are all kinds of scenarios, and I'm happy to lay out about six of them, in which the United States would be drawn into a war.
00:21:48.000 And so the pledge is made as a statement of principle, but Trump is the commander in chief, and it's his decision to make at a given time when the situation is dangerous enough that there should be a war.
00:22:00.000 Now, there isn't a war going on in Iran, but I do want to say about the Iranians this.
00:22:06.000 They are not a regional power like Iraq.
00:22:09.000 This is, I think, one of the key differences.
00:22:11.000 A lot of people think Iran is Iraq, you know, and Saddam Hussein is the same as the mullahs and Trump is the same as Bush.
00:22:18.000 He's becoming like Bush.
00:22:19.000 No, Iran has a global ideology and they always have.
00:22:24.000 The reason that they chant death to America, they also chant debt to Israel, but death to America is the main chant and debt to Israel is the secondary chant. 0.72
00:22:34.000 Why?
00:22:34.000 Because we are the main enemy.
00:22:37.000 We are the great Satan.
00:22:38.000 Israel may be the little Satan, but we are the great Satan.
00:22:41.000 And we are controlling Israel, not the other way around.
00:22:45.000 At least that's how the Iranians see it.
00:22:46.000 The little Satan is not telling the great Satan what to do.
00:22:50.000 It's actually the opposite.
00:22:52.000 The Iranian goal is a global caliphate that obviously involves global supervision, Sharia law, bringing it here, infiltrating this country, terror cells. 0.99
00:23:03.000 And the nuclear weapons are just taking this global ideology and giving it enormous power.
00:23:09.000 There's an old saying that says, what do you say to what do you call a dictator who has nuclear weapons?
00:23:14.000 And the answer is, sir.
00:23:17.000 What that means is that when a guy gets nukes, he's on a completely different level.
00:23:21.000 You've got to, in a sense, be deferential in a way that you otherwise wouldn't.
00:23:25.000 So here's Iran. 0.85
00:23:27.000 They are cooking these nukes.
00:23:28.000 They are building this uranium.
00:23:30.000 They're enriching it way beyond any peaceful purposes.
00:23:33.000 And Trump says, look, it's in our interest that they not have this weapon.
00:23:37.000 Yes, it's in Israel's interest as well, but we're not doing it for Israel. 0.98
00:23:42.000 We're doing it because we don't want them to have a nuclear weapon.
00:23:45.000 Okay, Dinashi, that's about five and a half minutes.
00:23:48.000 We'll come back to you.
00:23:48.000 You guys have a free-for-all in a moment.
00:23:51.000 Nick Fuentez and something you said Danash, I'm just going to add a small caveat and then go back to you guys.
00:23:56.000 Because I meant to say it up front.
00:23:57.000 I appreciate you doing this debate.
00:23:59.000 I appreciate Nick and you guys having this idea.
00:24:01.000 I forget who came up with it, but I think, if I remember correctly, Nick challenged you and you said sure.
00:24:05.000 And then, you know, here we are two weeks later.
00:24:06.000 So thank you both for doing this.
00:24:08.000 But exactly, what we're doing is what the left, who is diabolical against free speech, does not want.
00:24:14.000 They don't want real debates.
00:24:15.000 And so this is very, very healthy and very, very pro-freedom, pro-America.
00:24:19.000 I appreciate you both for being here.
00:24:20.000 I just wanted to add that.
00:24:21.000 So thanks for reminding me, Desha'Souza.
00:24:23.000 All right.
00:24:23.000 Nick Fuentez, you've got about five and a half, six minutes because Dinesh went a little bit over because I didn't stop him.
00:24:29.000 So Nick Fuentez of America First.
00:24:33.000 All right.
00:24:33.000 Well, thank you very much.
00:24:35.000 And I'd like to start out by saying as well, I appreciate Dinesh D'Souza for doing the debate.
00:24:42.000 And I actually appreciate him saying that, because it is true we have both been brutally censored.
00:24:47.000 And I know that Dinesh was also targeted by the Obama administration.
00:24:51.000 So, you know, we're really all sort of in the same boat in terms of we've all been persecuted to some extent.
00:24:56.000 So I appreciate him saying that.
00:24:58.000 But I'd like to move on and get into the subject of the debate.
00:25:01.000 And I actually like how Dinesh framed it.
00:25:03.000 I agree with him.
00:25:04.000 The central question concerning the Iran war is what does America first mean?
00:25:10.000 What is the United States involvement in Iran or what should it be?
00:25:14.000 And how does that conform to the stated goal of putting our country first, making America great again, and pursuing the American strategic interest?
00:25:24.000 And without going into the Barbary Wars or Reagan or any of that, we don't need to go back that far.
00:25:30.000 I think we need to talk about the current strategic landscape in the Middle East.
00:25:33.000 And we need to get some things down first analytically before we proceed.
00:25:38.000 And I'm actually going to pick up where Dinesh left off at the end and kind of start with that premise, because that is, I think, the mainstream premise.
00:25:46.000 Let's say that's a status quo accepted premise of the U.S. media or the conservative media is that Iran is an apocalyptic regime.
00:25:55.000 They have global ambitions.
00:25:56.000 They're led by religious zealots and fanatics.
00:25:59.000 They're racing Towards a bomb because they want to attack Israel and the United States. 0.64
00:26:03.000 And I would say that with that analytical framework, you probably would say that it's justified that we go to war with Iran. 1.00
00:26:10.000 I would probably agree under those circumstances.
00:26:12.000 But I would clarify a couple of things.
00:26:14.000 Let's say that in the first place, this is not the first regime that has been described this way.
00:26:19.000 When we were at war with the Soviet Union, it was conservative military planners that said the exact same thing.
00:26:25.000 They said the Soviets are a nihilistic death cult.
00:26:28.000 We can't negotiate with them.
00:26:29.000 Khrushchev said, we will bury them.
00:26:32.000 They want to destroy the United States.
00:26:34.000 Of course, we negotiated with them.
00:26:36.000 Of course, Nixon had détente, and eventually we negotiated with Gorbachev, and the wall came down, and we didn't have to go to war.
00:26:42.000 We said the same thing about Maoist China.
00:26:45.000 They killed 70 million people.
00:26:46.000 They're a communist death cult.
00:26:48.000 We negotiate with them all the time.
00:26:50.000 They joined the World Trade Organization.
00:26:52.000 I don't think anybody would argue that communism is not a nihilistic, global ideology with ambitions to take over the planet.
00:26:58.000 It certainly did.
00:26:58.000 It always had.
00:27:00.000 Yet we negotiated.
00:27:01.000 Let's also talk about Iran's nuclear program.
00:27:04.000 And once again, let's sort of do some housekeeping.
00:27:07.000 Iran does not have a nuclear bomb.
00:27:10.000 They're not currently pursuing a nuclear bomb.
00:27:13.000 And what you would call Iran is a nuclear threshold state. 0.74
00:27:16.000 They're engaging in something, and this is technical, it's called nuclear hedging.
00:27:20.000 This is where you have the technology, the expertise, and the infrastructure to make a nuclear weapon, but you don't actually build one.
00:27:27.000 Why do you maintain the threshold latent nuclear status?
00:27:30.000 You maintain that in the event that the security situation changes.
00:27:34.000 There's a few countries, actually, not just Iran, they're in the exact same boat.
00:27:39.000 And those countries are South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan.
00:27:41.000 They're all considered nuclear threshold states.
00:27:44.000 They have the expertise, the infrastructure, the technology to make a bomb.
00:27:48.000 Why do they have that expertise?
00:27:50.000 Why do they maintain the threshold status?
00:27:52.000 Because they're on the doorstep of China. 0.97
00:27:54.000 China is a much more powerful country, and they themselves have a native nuclear program.
00:27:58.000 They engage in nuclear hedging in the event that they need to deter a threat from a regional adversary.
00:28:05.000 Does this sound familiar?
00:28:07.000 Why is Iran pursuing nuclear hedging?
00:28:09.000 Why do they have a threshold status?
00:28:12.000 They have this because Israel is the only country in the Middle East, actually, that has an undeclared nuclear weapons program.
00:28:19.000 They have a nuclear arsenal of 200 bombs.
00:28:22.000 They're not a signatory on the NPT.
00:28:24.000 Israel is the only country with a nuclear arsenal and they're Iran's sworn enemy.
00:28:28.000 Let's also talk about the history.
00:28:30.000 The United States overthrew the government of Iran in 1953.
00:28:33.000 A democratically elected prime minister wanted to nationalize Iran's resources and put Iran first.
00:28:38.000 He was overthrown by the CIA.
00:28:40.000 The United States installed a brutal dictatorship.
00:28:43.000 The Iranian people revolted against it.
00:28:45.000 Ever since, the United States and Israel have been at war with Iran.
00:28:48.000 And we've destroyed all their neighbors.
00:28:50.000 We went into Iraq and overthrew Saddam Hussein.
00:28:53.000 All right, Nick, I just said five minutes.
00:28:55.000 It could have been 10 minutes.
00:28:56.000 You guys are both smart.
00:28:57.000 Could talk for hours.
00:28:59.000 So at this point, just let Dinesh come back and counter that.
00:29:02.000 And then you guys just, this is a real debate.
00:29:05.000 You guys can have a free-for-all.
00:29:08.000 So I'll just pitch it back to Dinesh.
00:29:09.000 You can leave off where you were stopping there.
00:29:12.000 Nick Fuentes, go ahead.
00:29:14.000 Yeah, terrific.
00:29:15.000 I mean, Alex, I think you only jump in if we are interrupting too much and can't make our points or either hogging all the time.
00:29:21.000 And I think otherwise, I'm happy to just go back and forth.
00:29:24.000 I'd like to just address a few of these points and we can kind of get into it further.
00:29:28.000 So I'll start by kind of correcting a couple of points that I think are just fallacious.
00:29:34.000 The first one is the idea that the Soviet Union was said to be some kind of a maniacal nihilistic power.
00:29:41.000 No one ever said that.
00:29:42.000 Not only that, but the whole premise of mutually assured destruction or mad was based upon the idea that you have two completely rational adversaries, and each of them understand that the deployment of nuclear weapons, the one against the other, will meet with catastrophic retaliation.
00:30:02.000 Never once did we dream that Khrushchev was like a suicide bomber or Brezhnev or Andropov or Chernenko or any of the Soviet leaders going back to Lenin.
00:30:12.000 We knew that they valued their lives.
00:30:14.000 We saw them as protecting their own interests.
00:30:16.000 So the idea that there's some kind of a, we've heard all this before with Russia and China, that's not true.
00:30:23.000 The idea of negotiating with the Soviet Union was the liberal idea.
00:30:27.000 It was the idea that when you make treaties, people behave themselves.
00:30:31.000 And I think Reagan exposed that to be fundamentally stupid.
00:30:35.000 It misses what human nature is all about.
00:30:37.000 It misses the lessons of Machiavelli and Klauswitz and Sun Tzu.
00:30:41.000 It misses the idea that treaties are simply disguised ways that powerful countries advance their own interests.
00:30:48.000 No one is going to sit down and make a treaty because they want to.
00:30:51.000 You make treaties because you have to.
00:30:53.000 You make treaties by and large in which you can see things that you would have lost anyway on the battlefield.
00:30:59.000 Now, let's look at Iran, for example.
00:31:00.000 If it's true, first of all, a word about Mozadek.
00:31:04.000 I kept, I heard Nick use the word democratically elected.
00:31:08.000 Mozadek was not democratically elected.
00:31:10.000 He was not elected by the Iranian people.
00:31:12.000 He was in fact appointed by the Shah.
00:31:14.000 Let's remember that the Shah was in power in 1953. 0.63
00:31:17.000 So if you have a dictator who's running the country, how does someone get democratically elected?
00:31:22.000 So I think this is actually taking up a talking point from the left and a bogus talking point also.
00:31:28.000 By the way, the first thing that Mozadek did when he came in, he dissolved parliament.
00:31:32.000 So this democratically elected guy dissolves the very parliament that supposedly put him into power.
00:31:38.000 So he was an autocrat, in some ways no different than the Shah. 0.64
00:31:42.000 There was a power struggle.
00:31:43.000 Yes, the CIA was involved.
00:31:44.000 Mozadegh was overthrown.
00:31:46.000 In my view, that was a very good thing.
00:31:48.000 Now, some people will say, well, that's what caused the Iranian revolution.
00:31:51.000 Wrong.
00:31:52.000 The Mozadegh business was in 1953.
00:31:55.000 The Iranian revolution was in 1979.
00:31:58.000 Are you telling me that the Iranians were really mad, but they decided to go on a 25-year vacation and then decided, okay, now let's work ourselves up into a frenzy 25 years later? 0.99
00:32:08.000 The reason we got Iran is basically because of Jimmy Carter.
00:32:12.000 Jimmy Carter decided that the Shah was a desperate. 0.74
00:32:16.000 He didn't want to support the secret police.
00:32:18.000 He pulled the Persian rug out from the Shah and basically we got Khomeini. 0.98
00:32:22.000 So this is the nincum poopery of Jimmy Carter.
00:32:25.000 He tried to get rid of what he saw as the bad guy and we got the worst guy.
00:32:31.000 I didn't respond to that, but we're going to jump in a bunch.
00:32:33.000 This is a great debate, but we're kind of doing a history lesson debating history.
00:32:37.000 Go as long as you guys want.
00:32:38.000 We go three hours if you want.
00:32:39.000 I hope we get into the current stuff, the FATAWA, Trump saying they may have a peaceful Monday, the Israel lobby, all of that.
00:32:45.000 But I'm going to stop there.
00:32:46.000 Nick, come back.
00:32:47.000 You guys start going back and forth here.
00:32:49.000 Sure.
00:32:50.000 I would come back and, you know, I don't want to turn it into a big history thing about the Soviet Union and communism, but I would say that's simply not true.
00:32:55.000 I mean, it was credible.
00:32:57.000 And this is what the Pentagon believed in the late 60s and early 70s, is that the Soviets thought that they could survive a first strike against the United States.
00:33:05.000 The idea that mutually assured destruction was always the law of the land.
00:33:08.000 There's this revolution in diplomacy because of nukes.
00:33:10.000 It's just belied by doctrine.
00:33:12.000 And during the 60s and 70s, we believed the Soviets are more powerful than us. 0.83
00:33:15.000 They had more nukes than us.
00:33:17.000 And we thought that they were going to strike us first.
00:33:19.000 They thought they could survive it.
00:33:20.000 And the rhetoric about the Soviets was the same.
00:33:23.000 They have this global ambition, domino theory.
00:33:26.000 They want a global revolution.
00:33:27.000 It was exact same stuff that they say about Iran.
00:33:30.000 And yet we never invaded the Soviet Union.
00:33:32.000 We didn't need regime change in the Soviet Union and to go in and decapitate the regime with airstrikes.
00:33:36.000 It just isn't true.
00:33:37.000 We negotiated.
00:33:38.000 So I would say that's in the first place, but we don't need to relitigate the history of the Cold War.
00:33:42.000 In the second place, the Mossadegh, it's really neither here nor there, the exact particularities here.
00:33:47.000 The point is this.
00:33:48.000 The United States and Israel pursue regime change across the entire region. 0.53
00:33:52.000 That's the point I'm trying to make.
00:33:53.000 And I didn't get to finish in my opening statement.
00:33:56.000 We overthrew Iran's government once.
00:33:57.000 And you admit it's a CIA coup in 53.
00:34:00.000 In 1979, the people are furious because of the secret police, because of the white revolution, because of the reforms that were made under the Shah. 0.81
00:34:07.000 They overthrew the Shah's government, the Western-backed government, because they saw it as a puppet.
00:34:12.000 And the Islamic Revolution enjoyed broad support in Iranian society.
00:34:16.000 What took place ever since then is regime change, one regime change operation after another.
00:34:22.000 Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, you name it, whether it's the Arab Spring and it's these soft power color revolution coups or ground wars or it's civil wars.
00:34:32.000 That's the business we do.
00:34:34.000 And we do it no matter who it is.
00:34:36.000 We do it against secular dictators. 0.83
00:34:37.000 We do it against people that cooperate with us and those that don't.
00:34:41.000 Gaddafi gave up his nuclear weapons in 2003.
00:34:43.000 We backed airstrikes against him anyway in 2011.
00:34:46.000 We backed Saddam at one point.
00:34:48.000 We oversaw the dismantlement of his nuclear program.
00:34:51.000 We went to war against him in 2003.
00:34:52.000 We said we weren't going to war against Assad in Syria.
00:34:55.000 We did.
00:34:56.000 He's now overthrown and now you have ISIS in power.
00:34:58.000 This is the history of the Middle East. 0.98
00:35:00.000 And this gets to the reason of why Iran wants a nuclear weapon.
00:35:03.000 It's not because they want to kill everybody.
00:35:05.000 It's not because they're fanatical and we can't negotiate and they're trying to bring about the end times and the escaton.
00:35:10.000 It's because they want to deter the same fate, regime change, what happened to all of their neighbors.
00:35:16.000 That makes them rational.
00:35:17.000 Let me stop you. 0.95
00:35:18.000 I said I was interrupting.
00:35:19.000 You guys are both too polite.
00:35:20.000 Every two or three minutes, I'm going to make you pause.
00:35:22.000 That goes back to what Dinesh was just saying earlier.
00:35:24.000 He's like, when North Korea has nukes, we say, sir, which I get that, and I don't want them having nukes.
00:35:29.000 They do, and ballistic missiles hit us.
00:35:31.000 But that then begs the question, Iran, if we can hedge and maybe have some hidden, then that speaks to why they would want a nuke.
00:35:37.000 I mean, Dinesh, there's a lot to say here, but go ahead.
00:35:41.000 Yeah, one of the mullahs, right in the middle of all this, one of the key mullahs made a very key admission.
00:35:47.000 He said, this is not about Iran.
00:35:51.000 This is about Islam.
00:35:53.000 Right there, you get the heart of the matter.
00:35:55.000 These mullahs, and yes, there was a broad-based Iranian revolution, but the mullahs in that power struggle took power. 0.59
00:36:01.000 And they have ruled dictatorially over Iran now since 1979.
00:36:06.000 They've made the Iranian revolution semi-permanent. 0.95
00:36:09.000 But the key to understanding that revolution going all the way back from when they seized the American hostages to the strike on Beirut 1982 to the fact that Iran has been sponsoring terrorism, not just in the region, they have tentacles in Venezuela.
00:36:25.000 They have tentacles in South America.
00:36:27.000 They have cells in the United States.
00:36:29.000 They are making an alliance with Russia and China to create a kind of axis of power.
00:36:34.000 So to the degree, Nick, that you're saying that this is a global chessboard, I agree.
00:36:39.000 And I think that, in a way, puts an interesting question for us, which is that isn't it a fact that there is a jihadi or radical strain of Islam?
00:36:50.000 This ultimately is what is driving a lot of these radical Muslims, right? 0.99
00:36:55.000 They are Hezbollah, Hamas. 0.94
00:36:58.000 It doesn't matter whether they're Shia or Sunni. 0.79
00:37:01.000 Hamas is Sunni. 0.88
00:37:02.000 Why is Iran funding Hamas?
00:37:04.000 Because they don't care about those distinctions at the end of the day.
00:37:08.000 At the end of the day, they care about whether you're an infidel, yes or no. 0.68
00:37:12.000 This radical Islam is a global ideology.
00:37:15.000 Look, you can say the mullahs keep saying it, I don't believe it, but you should believe it. 1.00
00:37:20.000 When the Russians said that they wanted a global triumph of communism, they meant it. 0.98
00:37:26.000 We took it seriously.
00:37:27.000 And by the way, we didn't end the Soviet Union through some sort of a treaty.
00:37:31.000 We ended the Soviet Union by bankrupting them. 0.94
00:37:33.000 Reagan ultimately defeated them in the Cold War.
00:37:36.000 It was not a treaty.
00:37:38.000 It was they were out of gas.
00:37:39.000 They couldn't compete in an arms race.
00:37:42.000 We were building MX missiles and putting multiple warheads on them.
00:37:45.000 We were building a missile shield.
00:37:47.000 We were supporting guerrilla revolutions around the world.
00:37:50.000 That's ultimately Afghanistan became, by their own admission, a bleeding wound.
00:37:55.000 So this is why the Soviets gave in. 0.74
00:37:57.000 They didn't give in.
00:37:58.000 No country ever gives in because of a treaty.
00:38:00.000 The idea that communism abolished itself, Eastern Europe was freed because we put a piece of paper in front of them.
00:38:06.000 They went, oh, okay, let's get rid of all this stuff.
00:38:09.000 We were once a global empire.
00:38:11.000 We'll now become a second-rate superpower.
00:38:13.000 That's not how it happened at all.
00:38:15.000 And that's a misunderstanding of Iran.
00:38:17.000 Islam is a conquering force. 0.99
00:38:20.000 The Muslims came out of the Arabian desert. 1.00
00:38:23.000 How do you think they conquered the Holy Land?
00:38:24.000 They took Jerusalem. 0.98
00:38:26.000 They took Syria. 0.98
00:38:27.000 They took Jordan. 0.97
00:38:28.000 They conquered Iran by force.
00:38:30.000 That's how they got it.
00:38:31.000 They are the occupier of Iran. 1.00
00:38:33.000 Okay, Dinesh.
00:38:34.000 And by the way, you're both very smart men.
00:38:36.000 I've studied the history.
00:38:37.000 You're both accurate in the basic facts.
00:38:39.000 Very interesting.
00:38:40.000 I'm not saying the general public's dumb, but even really smart political people really, most of them can't find Iran on a map.
00:38:46.000 So I don't want to throw this in.
00:38:48.000 I figured very smart, Dinesh.
00:38:50.000 You're not trying to throw the debate away here, but very smart to get into America versus Iran up front.
00:38:56.000 I was imagining, and I'm not trying to steer this, though I want to spend some time on it, The whole issue of Israel and the Israel lobby and where that sits, because I know that's Nick's bailiwick.
00:39:06.000 And, you know, so that's just something I'm throwing out there as well, because that's why a lot of Americans have seen, I'm not saying I love the Islamicists or any of this, but we've seen regime change. 0.91
00:39:15.000 Now, the former head of Al-Qaeda in charge of Syria.
00:39:17.000 We see, you know, Hamas being, you know, Israel helped set it up, you know, as a counterbalance. 0.95
00:39:23.000 Then we've got, you know, Iran, you know, all of this. 0.98
00:39:26.000 And so I think a lot of Americans just don't believe the intelligence establishment, even though I wouldn't cry at night if the mullahs fell.
00:39:32.000 So, I mean, what about the APAC-Israel issue in all of this, Dinesh, for like a minute?
00:39:38.000 Can I respond actually to what he said?
00:39:40.000 I'm sorry.
00:39:41.000 I apologize.
00:39:41.000 Go ahead.
00:39:42.000 No, you're fine.
00:39:43.000 I just want to have equal time.
00:39:44.000 But I mean, with regard to this, there is just like this.
00:39:47.000 And, you know, forgive me if this sounds, I'm trying to be cordial here, but I do believe there is this engine in the United States from the conservative movement that says it is about Islam.
00:39:57.000 You know, this is Glenn Beck's book.
00:39:58.000 This is sort of the Fox News mantra.
00:40:00.000 It is Islam.
00:40:01.000 Islam is the problem. 1.00
00:40:02.000 And I'm not an Islamist.
00:40:04.000 I'm a Catholic.
00:40:05.000 I'm not pro-Islam. 1.00
00:40:06.000 And I wouldn't even call myself pro-Iran.
00:40:07.000 I'm pro-America.
00:40:09.000 And to sort of narrow the discussion, let's talk about Islamism.
00:40:12.000 Let's talk about jihadism.
00:40:13.000 I agree with you.
00:40:14.000 There is an element of jihadism in the Middle East.
00:40:17.000 There are these radical Muslims that they want to return to the faith of the pious ones, the ancient Muslims, the first two or three generations of Muslims.
00:40:25.000 They come from Saudi Arabia.
00:40:27.000 Hezbollah, Hamas, the Iranian-backed groups do not attack Americans on American soil.
00:40:32.000 They're not global powers.
00:40:33.000 They're local powers.
00:40:34.000 They're regional powers.
00:40:36.000 They don't attack the United States.
00:40:37.000 They may attack the United States in Beirut or Iraq because the United States is in their territory.
00:40:42.000 We're in the Middle East.
00:40:43.000 We're in their neighborhood.
00:40:44.000 We're backing Israel's brutal war on Lebanon in the 80s, where they commit massacres, castrating people, scalping people, you know, brutal atrocities that are well documented that Israel, I mean, their own commission blames Ariel Sharon for this, the defense minister.
00:40:58.000 So, you know, they don't attack us on our soil.
00:41:00.000 The terrorists that do attack us are Wahhabist. 1.00
00:41:03.000 They're Salafist. 0.99
00:41:04.000 That comes from Saudi Arabia.
00:41:06.000 Saudi Arabia spent billions of dollars promoting Wahhabism, which is the ideology of al-Qaeda, of ISIS.
00:41:11.000 We backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.
00:41:14.000 We backed bin Laden. 0.76
00:41:15.000 We do arms deals with Saudi Arabia.
00:41:17.000 And you know what?
00:41:18.000 To some extent, this radicalism is going away.
00:41:20.000 And it came from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, these other places.
00:41:24.000 And it's going away because we made a deal with Mohammed bin Salman.
00:41:28.000 We did arms deals throughout.
00:41:29.000 We're allies throughout, buy oil from them throughout.
00:41:31.000 We didn't invade Saudi Arabia and install a Western liberal democracy.
00:41:35.000 You know, we don't like your regime.
00:41:36.000 We're going to drop bombs on you.
00:41:38.000 We negotiated with them over time.
00:41:40.000 And by the way, they were the biggest problem.
00:41:41.000 As far as Iran is concerned, it's important to analytically determine their strategic interest because that's how you determine what we have to do about it.
00:41:49.000 Israel wants regime change in Iran.
00:41:51.000 That's why Iran wants a bomb to deter this, which is a credible fear.
00:41:55.000 Now, the United States won't let Iran have the bomb. 0.82
00:41:58.000 Now, if you want to give Iran the Soviet Union treatment and bankrupt them through maximum pressure and sanctions, that's what we were doing. 0.88
00:42:05.000 But you're calling for regime change.
00:42:07.000 We didn't do regime change in the Soviet Union.
00:42:10.000 We allowed them, and we went in there actually.
00:42:12.000 George Bush managed it, I think, in a good way.
00:42:14.000 We managed a peaceful transition to power after a long period of soft power and smart power that we used against them.
00:42:21.000 You're saying we need to go in and invade Iran, or not maybe invade Iran, but force them to have regime change with CIA operations, foreign media, maximum pressure sanctions, backing Israeli operations. 0.56
00:42:34.000 And I would say that's not in America's interest.
00:42:35.000 That's what Israel wants. 0.90
00:42:36.000 That's not what we want.
00:42:38.000 Regime change has a terrible track record from Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Syria.
00:42:42.000 There's zero success stories.
00:42:43.000 I think that I agree with you in some sense.
00:42:46.000 We don't want a nuclear Iran, but we need to understand why we're on the threshold of one. 0.99
00:42:50.000 And that has to do with Israel's ambitious and aggressive actions. 0.63
00:42:54.000 In my opinion, the move is restrain Israel, stop them from attacking Iran, get Iran to come back to the table and try to get them to agree to some kind of framework like the JCPOA.
00:43:05.000 And maybe we could talk about the JCPOA because to me, that is the most important precedent.
00:43:11.000 I am trying to equal time.
00:43:12.000 I was throwing a quick question back to Dinesh to give you a longer response because I kind of, I'm glad we're having this debate.
00:43:18.000 I just figured it would be about the current situation.
00:43:20.000 I love the history, but we're kind of still in that.
00:43:22.000 And I'm glad you guys are so informative trying to educate people.
00:43:25.000 But just in general, you guys can wherever you want, counter back what he was saying today.
00:43:28.000 But then I would like to just interject the current crisis.
00:43:31.000 Where do you see it going?
00:43:32.000 The FATOA, Trump saying, I'm going to kill, you know, you're lucky I don't kill you.
00:43:36.000 I might kill you, the Iranian leader, which I support Trump and loving, but that was provocative.
00:43:41.000 I mean, and also ask you guys where you think this is going and is there a path for peace and then a larger debate, which I figured you guys would get into first about the Israel lobby.
00:43:51.000 All right.
00:43:52.000 Let me say some things about regime change to lay a foundation of what I think the MAGA view on this is.
00:43:59.000 Because I think the MAGA view on this is a repudiation of Bush, but it's not a repudiation of Reagan.
00:44:05.000 In fact, it's a restatement of the Reagan principles, although admittedly in a very different situation.
00:44:12.000 Obviously, in the 70s and 80s, the Reagan focus was on the Soviet empire.
00:44:17.000 The situation now is totally different.
00:44:20.000 But there are a lot of really bad regimes in the world.
00:44:23.000 And these are regimes that harm our interests in all kinds of ways.
00:44:27.000 So ask a simple question.
00:44:29.000 Is it in our interest for these really bad regimes, and I'll be happy to go through a list and we can agree on what they are, would it be a good idea for these regimes to have change?
00:44:41.000 For the bad guys who are running these regimes to go, get away, for the regimes themselves to be toppled, and for something else to take their place?
00:44:49.000 So if we look at Iran, for example, I would say, I am willing to take any chance on getting rid of the mullahs, these jihadi mullahs, these people who wish death to us and are building up the means to do it. 1.00
00:45:04.000 Oh, and I don't know.
00:45:04.000 Okay, maybe Nick's right.
00:45:06.000 Maybe he's wrong.
00:45:07.000 I tend to believe the mullahs over Nick.
00:45:09.000 They say that they want to have global jihad.
00:45:12.000 They say that they want a global caliphate.
00:45:15.000 They say that they're building up the strength to do it.
00:45:18.000 They're allying with other people who certainly do have nuclear weapons and do have that kind of power.
00:45:23.000 So would it be a good idea to have regime change in Iran?
00:45:26.000 Would it be in our interest?
00:45:27.000 Forget about Israel.
00:45:28.000 Of course it would.
00:45:29.000 Now, a separate Question is, what are we willing to expend for that to happen?
00:45:34.000 So, my question to Nick is: all right, let's start at the very beginning.
00:45:37.000 Would you be willing to expend 50 cents to get the mullahs to leave, to quit, to go home, to become refugees and go to other countries? 0.84
00:45:47.000 They can go to luxury apartments in Qatar and elsewhere and let the Iranian people have a plebiscite. 0.97
00:45:54.000 We're not going to go in there.
00:45:54.000 We're not going to arrange tribal meetings.
00:45:57.000 We're not going to take over the country.
00:45:58.000 We're going to let them fix it.
00:46:00.000 I would be very confident that what comes after, whatever it is, it could be autocracy, it could be democracy, it could be some hybrid, is going to be better than what's there now.
00:46:09.000 So I think Nick is so blinded by his hatred of Israel that he's losing sight of America first.
00:46:15.000 He's become automatically friendly to the mullah.
00:46:18.000 So he's giving them a much more rational account of the Iranian interests than he even gives of American interests.
00:46:24.000 I mean, every time he talks about America, he uses the phrase we.
00:46:28.000 But let's remember that we've had alternating regimes between Republicans and Democrats.
00:46:33.000 So he mentioned the Arab Spring.
00:46:35.000 The Arab Spring was basically an anti-American operation organized with the help of Barack Obama.
00:46:42.000 Barack Obama wants Iran to have nukes.
00:46:45.000 He was trying to create space for them to do that and give them money to enable them to do that.
00:46:51.000 Why?
00:46:51.000 Because Obama has an ideology that's anti-American.
00:46:55.000 So we can't just say we and take the blame for what Obama did.
00:46:59.000 Okay, Dinesh.
00:47:00.000 I'm just watching the clock trying to just be a referee here.
00:47:02.000 Good points.
00:47:03.000 Nick.
00:47:05.000 Well, that's a lot to tackle there.
00:47:06.000 I would say in the first place, we, and I have to address this first, just to get it out of the way.
00:47:11.000 When you say we take the mullahs at their word, you're citing obscure one of their clerical leaders.
00:47:18.000 And you say, well, that guy said it's about Islam.
00:47:20.000 That defines their whole regime.
00:47:22.000 If you want to take them at their word, let's go to the supreme leader.
00:47:24.000 The supreme leader is the top cleric in Iran, the top cleric in Shiite Islam.
00:47:29.000 It's in their constitution.
00:47:30.000 Supreme leader's got to be a cleric.
00:47:31.000 The Ayatollah promulgated a fatwa 20 years ago that says that attaining nuclear weapons and using them is against Islamic law.
00:47:39.000 And that has been cited over and over again in 2005, in 2015.
00:47:43.000 In recent negotiations, they say the supreme leader says it's contrary, and I could give you the quotes, completely to Islamic doctrine to have nuclear weapons.
00:47:51.000 So you can't have it both ways.
00:47:52.000 You can't say we're going to take them at their word when one guy in the government says we're going to take over the world.
00:47:57.000 But you can't have it both ways and say we can't listen to the supreme leader say we don't want nuclear weapons.
00:48:02.000 We have to do one or the other.
00:48:03.000 I'll just say that first.
00:48:04.000 Then we get further and we get into this question.
00:48:06.000 Nick, if you may I ask you a question about that.
00:48:09.000 Okay, sure.
00:48:10.000 Okay, go ahead.
00:48:11.000 Go ahead.
00:48:11.000 Go ahead.
00:48:12.000 Okay.
00:48:12.000 Well, so, and then with regard to regime change, I would contend that regime change is just not desirable.
00:48:17.000 You say, you know, well, how much are you willing to expend to pursue regime change?
00:48:21.000 I'm saying I don't think it's desirable.
00:48:23.000 And here's the evidence for this.
00:48:24.000 You say, well, I'm confident something better will happen.
00:48:27.000 There'll be this democratic plebiscite.
00:48:29.000 What is the history of regime change?
00:48:31.000 When Osni Mubarak was overthrown in Egypt, you got the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamism, Muhammad Morsi. 0.87
00:48:36.000 When Gaddafi was overthrown, you get warlords, you get civil war.
00:48:39.000 When Syria was overthrown, you get ISIS.
00:48:42.000 You get this guy al-Julani, who's literally from ISIS and al-Qaeda.
00:48:46.000 In Afghanistan, you still have the Taliban.
00:48:48.000 If we overthrow Iran, and by the way, here's the other evidence. 0.97
00:48:51.000 When Israel attacked Iran two weeks ago, they thought that the government would collapse and the people would rise up and they would overthrow the government.
00:48:59.000 This is what they said for years.
00:49:00.000 The opposite happened.
00:49:02.000 The people rallied to the supreme leader.
00:49:04.000 They said we're under attack from a foreign entity.
00:49:07.000 They actually rallied in the streets and there were major funeral processions for the martyrs, the IRGC leaders that were killed.
00:49:13.000 They rallied behind the government.
00:49:15.000 If anything, if this government goes down, I don't know where you think we're going to get something better.
00:49:20.000 We're going to get something more hardcore.
00:49:22.000 The reason why it matters to articulate Iran's interests is to say if their worst fear is regime change, which is the credible fear of all leaders, every leader wants to stay in power.
00:49:31.000 No leader wants to meet the fate of Gaddafi.
00:49:33.000 No leader wants to be deposed and live in exile.
00:49:36.000 If their credible fear is regime change and we pursue that in one form or another, and it's a little naive to say they're going to come together and have a new government, CIA and State Department and Israel will be all over that, just like they have in all these other operations.
00:49:49.000 You're going to get hardliners.
00:49:51.000 You're going to get IRGC commanders that said, our worst nightmare happened.
00:49:54.000 Now we really got, now we're really in an apocalyptic war.
00:49:59.000 Now we're really, this is the end times.
00:50:01.000 The United States overthrew us.
00:50:02.000 So I'm against research.
00:50:04.000 I'm going to watch the clock here.
00:50:04.000 Do you want to answer Ninesh's question or just go back to Dinesh?
00:50:09.000 Was that what question?
00:50:10.000 I mean, the exact question, Desh, you had a question there?
00:50:13.000 Oh, well, I've forgotten what the question was.
00:50:15.000 There's a lot being talked about here.
00:50:17.000 I'd rather respond to this larger theme here a little bit because, look, I mean, Nick, you're 26, and so it's understandable that your view of history, you keep saying history, a regime change has a bad history.
00:50:29.000 And the history you give is like four years old.
00:50:31.000 You know, your compass is so narrow that you don't understand that I could give you 40 examples of regime change through history that have all worked out beautifully.
00:50:41.000 Some recent, some more ancient.
00:50:43.000 There was regime change in Spain.
00:50:45.000 Franco fell.
00:50:46.000 Spain became a democracy.
00:50:48.000 You had autocrats all over South America.
00:50:50.000 Those regimes all changed.
00:50:51.000 Many of those countries are much better off as a result.
00:50:55.000 The United States produced regime change in Mexico.
00:50:57.000 There was a dictator named Santana.
00:50:59.000 He was the one who actually came and fought against us in the Alamo and in Texas.
00:51:05.000 Ultimately, Santana was overthrown.
00:51:07.000 That was excellent regime change.
00:51:09.000 I'm not even counting, of course, the Nazi regime in Japan in World War II.
00:51:13.000 The Soviet Union was regime change of an excellent quality.
00:51:17.000 So regime change sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't work.
00:51:21.000 A lot of times it depends kind of on who does it and how.
00:51:23.000 Now, here's a key point.
00:51:25.000 And of course, you know, Alex has brought up Israel.
00:51:28.000 I want to get into Israel.
00:51:29.000 So I'm happy to do that.
00:51:31.000 Here's the point I want to make.
00:51:32.000 It is very much, in my view, in our interest and Israel to have regime change in Iran.
00:51:39.000 And if Israel is willing to do it, I would say more power to them. 0.98
00:51:45.000 I think Trump is stopping them.
00:51:47.000 Trump says, no, I'm going to save the life of Khamenei. 0.97
00:51:51.000 And so Trump, in this sense, I think, is more allergic to the risks of regime change and willing to keep the mullahs in power.
00:52:00.000 But what's really important here is Israel is not controlling Trump.
00:52:04.000 It's the other way around.
00:52:05.000 If you leave it to Netanyahu, you leave it to the Knesset.
00:52:08.000 They would like to overthrow the mullahs and they have the power to do it. 0.98
00:52:12.000 And the fact that they're not doing it shows that, again, to use my old phrase, the great Satan is controlling the little Satan and not the other way around.
00:52:20.000 There's another example just from today.
00:52:22.000 Trump is basically pressuring Nedan Yahoo to have a 60-day ceasefire in Gaza.
00:52:28.000 Now, first of all, Israel has every moral right to level Gaza. 0.94
00:52:34.000 And what I mean by that is quite honestly, when a country attacks you, when you are invaded, just like if there's a home invasion, some guy comes into my house, rapes my wife, kills my daughter, kills my kids, and then he runs away and I chase after him.
00:52:50.000 And of course, I chase his car down.
00:52:51.000 I stop him.
00:52:52.000 He jumps out of the car, grabs his own kids and sticks them in front of him.
00:52:57.000 And then he goes, don't shoot because women and children are in front of me. 0.97
00:53:01.000 No, what you've done, you put your children in danger, first by invading my house and second by using them as human shields.
00:53:09.000 I am not under any moral strictures based on what you did to me.
00:53:13.000 I have every right to attempt to destroy you and the suffering of your women and children is the result of your actions and not mine.
00:53:21.000 So my point is, once you had October 7th, and October 7th, by the way, bankrolled by Iran, planned in Iran, Israel has every right, strategic, moral, political, to strike out at Gaza and to strike at Iran. 0.71
00:53:36.000 And so the United States is the one that's tying their hands.
00:53:39.000 And so once again, even with this Gaza treaty, you can see that the man in charge, the numero uno, is not Netanyahu.
00:53:46.000 It's Trump.
00:53:47.000 Okay, so I want Nick to be able to come back.
00:53:50.000 I got to say something here.
00:53:50.000 Dinesh, you're a great guy.
00:53:52.000 I respect you.
00:53:52.000 Love your films.
00:53:53.000 Interview 20 years.
00:53:54.000 But the analogy of somebody breaking your house, raping and killing your wife and daughter, then you chase him down so he uses his kids. 0.61
00:54:02.000 They're still innocent.
00:54:04.000 And look, I get it.
00:54:04.000 50,000 dead in Gaza.
00:54:06.000 The whole liberal media making it the biggest thing ever.
00:54:08.000 I'm sad it happened.
00:54:09.000 The left loves the war in Ukraine, over a million dead.
00:54:13.000 And I know somebody did it during World War II, and Israel's argument. 0.70
00:54:16.000 But to say then if somebody uses their own kids as human shields, I don't know if somebody killed my wife and daughter.
00:54:21.000 They use their kids as human shields.
00:54:22.000 I'd wait till they dropped the kids or I'd, you know, whatever.
00:54:25.000 I just think it's an oversubhistor.
00:54:27.000 You wouldn't wait till they dropped the kids.
00:54:29.000 You would look for a clean shot at them.
00:54:31.000 But if you accidentally hit their kids, whose fault would it be?
00:54:34.000 Yours or theirs?
00:54:35.000 I get your point.
00:54:36.000 That's fair, Touche.
00:54:38.000 So go ahead, Nick.
00:54:39.000 I'll stop interrupting.
00:54:41.000 Yeah.
00:54:41.000 Well, forgive me, but I have to do this.
00:54:44.000 You know, you said that I'm a young man and my view of history is so short.
00:54:48.000 Well, let's talk about some of your history here.
00:54:52.000 You were a big supporter of the war in Iraq.
00:54:53.000 And I want to actually read and go back to what you said about it in 2003 and 2007, because I think this is fair.
00:55:00.000 You said in 2003 that Saddam's support for terrorism, his attempt to acquire nuclear weapons, makes him an imminent danger to world peace and security.
00:55:09.000 That was in 2003.
00:55:11.000 Four years later, you said the important point about the wars is that 50 million Afghans and Iraqis are free.
00:55:17.000 And for the first time in their history, they can control their own destiny.
00:55:20.000 Liberals emphasize the negative and relish the failures of American foreign policy.
00:55:25.000 Now, there's a lot of other quotes here, but this speaks to the kind of hubris of the neocons, of the interventionists, of advocates for regime change, which is just like in 2003, there is this alarmism.
00:55:37.000 They support terrorism. 0.85
00:55:38.000 They're building nuclear weapons.
00:55:39.000 Now, both of those things turned out not to be true.
00:55:41.000 There was no connection between al-Qaeda and Saddam.
00:55:44.000 Saddam did not have nukes.
00:55:45.000 Then there's this justification after the fact.
00:55:47.000 Well, you know, it doesn't matter because it's going fine.
00:55:50.000 Well, 20 years later, guess who took over Iraq? 0.80
00:55:52.000 Iran.
00:55:53.000 Iran filled the power vacuum. 0.97
00:55:55.000 Guess who retook over Afghanistan? 0.90
00:55:57.000 The Taliban.
00:55:58.000 So, you know, you can talk about like Germany and Japan.
00:56:01.000 I think those things are fundamentally different for starters because Japan attacked us first on our soil in Hawaii.
00:56:06.000 I mean, that's fundamentally different.
00:56:08.000 But in terms of regime change, this does harken back to Iraq.
00:56:11.000 And I've seen your videos where you talk about the dissimilarities between the two situations.
00:56:15.000 I think they're very similar.
00:56:17.000 Now, as far as Iran, I don't even want to get into Gaza because that's a little bit, we can later, but I want to talk specifically about Iran.
00:56:24.000 In one of your videos, you say, well, unlike Iraq, where we had to rely on government intelligence with Iran, we know about their facilities.
00:56:31.000 We know where they are.
00:56:32.000 We've seen the tunnels.
00:56:33.000 We've seen the centrifuges.
00:56:34.000 We know what they're doing.
00:56:36.000 Well, isn't that sort of precisely the point?
00:56:38.000 When the United States made the nuclear deal with Iran, they adhered to it for years.
00:56:42.000 The deal was made in 15.
00:56:44.000 And from 15 to 2018, the IAEA said they were in compliance with the deal.
00:56:48.000 They had 24-hour monitoring, they had cameras, they had inspections, and they were in compliance with the deal.
00:56:54.000 It wasn't until a year after Trump pulled out of the deal and forced all the other Europeans to pull out as well.
00:57:01.000 And we reneged on our commitments.
00:57:03.000 We pulled out and didn't give them sanctions relief.
00:57:05.000 We, through secondary sanctions, forced the Europeans to pull out and they didn't get sanctions relief.
00:57:10.000 It was only until 2019 that Iran started to gradually reneg on their commitments.
00:57:17.000 And it went in succession where America killed Qasem Suleimani, which is one of their generals.
00:57:23.000 Then Iran began to enrich without limitations.
00:57:27.000 They enriched and they engaged in all nuclear activities without any kind of restrictions.
00:57:31.000 It wasn't until 2021 when Israel attacked Natan's twice, cyber attacks and sabotage attacks, that Iran began to enrich to 60%. 0.83
00:57:41.000 Every action has this equal and opposite reaction.
00:57:43.000 Iran was a partner in 2001.
00:57:46.000 Iran helped us build the Northern Alliance.
00:57:48.000 They helped us put Kaiser or Karzai in power in Afghanistan.
00:57:52.000 A few months later, George Bush calls them the axis of evil.
00:57:55.000 This is how we treat Iran. 0.99
00:57:56.000 Now, you guys interrupt each other just every few minutes.
00:58:01.000 Maybe I should just go bing. 0.61
00:58:02.000 And the other person interrupts you guys.
00:58:04.000 They're so polite.
00:58:04.000 Dinesh.
00:58:05.000 All right.
00:58:06.000 Well, first of all, I want to do a mea kalpa here because I was wrong about the Iraq war.
00:58:12.000 Not because I said Iraq had new.
00:58:14.000 I'm sorry about the Iraq war.
00:58:15.000 Not because I said Iraq had nuclear weapons.
00:58:17.000 Of course, you remember with George W. Bush, the claim was that they had these so-called weapons of mass destruction.
00:58:23.000 Not quite the same as nukes, but the idea was it could be chemical weapons.
00:58:26.000 It could be a weapon that could kill a large number of people.
00:58:30.000 Now, this information, which was given to us from high levels in the U.S. government, I think was the first case of where we learned that we can't always trust the government.
00:58:41.000 And we can't trust the government because these intelligence agencies have their own agenda.
00:58:46.000 And this was a neocon scam. 0.74
00:58:48.000 And I got to say, I might have been a little too deeply in the neocon world.
00:58:51.000 I went for it.
00:58:52.000 But unlike a lot of the neocons, I broke with them.
00:58:56.000 Most of my former colleagues at AEI won't speak to me.
00:59:00.000 I left the neocon camp, which is now basically the never Trump camp.
00:59:05.000 And I came into the Trump camp because I think the Trump was based on the idea that, look, we've learned some valuable lessons from the Iraq war.
00:59:12.000 And that is this idea of trying to occupy other countries is a great mistake.
00:59:17.000 By the way, the United States had every right to blow up the Taliban, to chase them out of power.
00:59:23.000 Those were the guys who supplied the monkey bars for 9-11.
00:59:26.000 So if you're talking about a direct attack on the United States, yes, it was al-Qaeda, but the Taliban was a hospitable regime that trained them. 0.59
00:59:34.000 What we should have done is turned to some rival tribes, some war, there are plenty of warlike tribes in Afghanistan and said, listen, we're going to turn it over to you.
00:59:41.000 You keep kicking their ass from now on, and we're out of here. 1.00
00:59:44.000 But we didn't do that.
00:59:45.000 We went over there.
00:59:46.000 We started conducting meetings and talking about women's rights and a whole bunch of nonsense. 1.00
00:59:51.000 And the whole thing backfired on us.
00:59:52.000 So that's a bitter lesson that we've learned.
00:59:55.000 And I think I'm with you on that, Nick.
00:59:58.000 All right.
00:59:58.000 But Iran is a different animal.
01:00:02.000 And I think this is the key.
01:00:05.000 Iran is the one that is threatening Israel, not the other way around. 0.94
01:00:08.000 What does Israel want out of Iran? 0.73
01:00:09.000 You think Israel wants to go occupy Iran?
01:00:12.000 You think Israel has designs on Iran?
01:00:14.000 Israel has one of the smallest, most God-forsaken pieces of earth on the planet. 1.00
01:00:19.000 They are just trying to hold onto it.
01:00:22.000 And by the way, it's theirs.
01:00:24.000 Now, what do I mean by that?
01:00:26.000 This is a very important issue because how do you get a country?
01:00:30.000 I mean, how are countries, how do you get the title deeds of a country?
01:00:33.000 There are really only three ways.
01:00:35.000 One way is you're the original inhabitants, right?
01:00:37.000 Like the Native Americans are the original inhabitants. 1.00
01:00:39.000 They go, it's ours.
01:00:40.000 That's one way.
01:00:41.000 The second way is there's some sort of a negotiation, a treaty.
01:00:45.000 Someone gives it to you and you get it that way.
01:00:48.000 A third way is conquest.
01:00:50.000 That's how we got large parts of Mexico.
01:00:52.000 That's how the United States now reaches from one end of the ocean to the other.
01:00:56.000 We took a lot of it by force.
01:00:58.000 So that's the third way.
01:00:59.000 Most of the boundaries of most of the countries of the world are established by war and by nothing else.
01:01:04.000 Now, interestingly, with America, you could say that on one side, the Native Americans have the right. 0.91
01:01:11.000 They were here first.
01:01:12.000 So they have the title deeds.
01:01:13.000 And then you can say on the other side, well, we conquered them.
01:01:16.000 We fought a war.
01:01:17.000 They lost.
01:01:17.000 That's that.
01:01:18.000 So it's ours.
01:01:19.000 But with Israel, all the arguments benefit Israel. 0.80
01:01:23.000 They were the original inhabitants.
01:01:25.000 They were there for 4,000 years, going back to the time of Abraham.
01:01:29.000 Number two, they were awarded Israel by the United Nations in 1948.
01:01:35.000 And number three, they have fought multiple wars, at least three, 1948, 1967, 1973.
01:01:42.000 They beat the combined invading armies of Syria, Jordan, Egypt.
01:01:47.000 So the Arab world united against them.
01:01:50.000 They kicked their butts.
01:01:51.000 And so whether you're looking at this, it was fascinating.
01:01:56.000 I look at the clock, like five minutes.
01:01:58.000 So we're running over, Nick.
01:01:59.000 I got to be fair.
01:02:00.000 Nick, you got five minutes because I just let him run for five minutes.
01:02:02.000 Go ahead.
01:02:02.000 It was great.
01:02:03.000 I was listening.
01:02:03.000 Just, sorry, I got to go ahead.
01:02:06.000 Yeah.
01:02:07.000 You know, once again, it just gets back to the analytical framework for the conflict is that these are rational actors.
01:02:13.000 And maybe we'll get into Israel's objectives.
01:02:16.000 Iran wants a nuclear arsenal to deter an attack from the United States and Israel.
01:02:21.000 I think that's a credible fear.
01:02:23.000 The United States' interest is they do not want nuclear proliferation.
01:02:26.000 So we don't want Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon.
01:02:29.000 We don't necessarily have an interest in regime change.
01:02:32.000 Israel's strategic objective is to overthrow the government of Iran.
01:02:36.000 And why?
01:02:37.000 It goes back to the Laikoud Party and their takeover of the government in the late 1970s.
01:02:41.000 They witnessed what happened in the Camp David Accords, which is that Egypt got the Sinai back in exchange for peace.
01:02:48.000 They witnessed some of the Israeli ministers try to negotiate with the Palestinians.
01:02:52.000 They called it land for peace.
01:02:54.000 We'll give you some of the West Bank in exchange for peace. 0.92
01:02:56.000 We'll give Syria the Golan in exchange for peace was the idea. 0.99
01:03:00.000 They thought that's what was going to happen.
01:03:02.000 And these Lykudniks, the people that have been running Israel basically for 50 years, nearly uninterrupted, they said, we can't keep giving up land in exchange for peace. 0.90
01:03:10.000 They said, we need to go on the offensive.
01:03:12.000 This is in Oded Yanon's plan for the 1980s.
01:03:15.000 He was an advisor to Ariel Sharon.
01:03:17.000 This is in the Clean Break memo in 1996.
01:03:20.000 And in both of these doctrines, and this is consistent throughout, you know, 20, 30 year period, they said we need to go on the offensive and we need to basically destroy all the big states that are supporting Palestine, all the big states that might pose a threat to Israel. 0.51
01:03:34.000 And that is why they pushed for regime change against Saddam.
01:03:37.000 That's why they pushed for destabilization of Syria.
01:03:39.000 And ultimately, they saw Iran as sponsoring Hezbollah and the Shiite groups in southern Lebanon, and then eventually Hamas.
01:03:46.000 And so Israel has an interest in what they call creating statelets.
01:03:50.000 They don't want big, powerful regimes like Nasser's Egypt, like the Assad dynasty in Syria, like Gaddafi and Libya.
01:03:58.000 They want small, manageable fiefdoms where they're going to dismember Libya into like three countries, dismember Syria into Druze, Alawite, and Sunni, dismember Iraq into Shiite, Kurdish, and Sunni. 0.98
01:04:10.000 They want to do the same thing to Iran.
01:04:12.000 And that is because, and I agree with you, Israel wants to be safe, but you characterize Israel as small and fledgling and just trying to hold on to their land.
01:04:20.000 They're the only nuclear power, the most sophisticated, most powerful military and intelligence operation in the Middle East, as evidenced by this very one-sided conflict.
01:04:29.000 And what they want to be safe is regional hegemony.
01:04:32.000 In order to be safe from all threats, they want to make it so that there are no threats.
01:04:36.000 That's why the road to Israeli safety and their right to exist runs through regime change, destabilization, and civil war. 0.81
01:04:43.000 And so I'm saying, look, that's probably in their best interest, but it's not in ours.
01:04:48.000 And so that's why I agree with Trump.
01:04:49.000 We should pursue diplomacy with Iran and try to get them to give up their nuclear program with limitations and restrictions without regime change, which is unpredictable and has negative effects for us. 0.67
01:04:59.000 Israel wants the regime change, and they want us to pick up the pieces and clean up after them, just as we did in all these other countries. 0.95
01:05:06.000 And we deal with the terrorism and the hatred, and we deal with the high gas prices and all the rest of it.
01:05:10.000 So that's the America first position. 0.61
01:05:13.000 Restrain Israel from pursuing regime change, restrict Iran's nuclear program. 0.50
01:05:17.000 You can use maximum pressure and Reagan doctrine to do it.
01:05:20.000 I'm fine with that.
01:05:21.000 But I think diplomacy is preferable, and that's in our interest to try it.
01:05:24.000 That's my position.
01:05:25.000 Okay, so I want to go back to Dinesh here, and we're approaching 15 minutes of this.
01:05:29.000 This is amazing.
01:05:30.000 You guys, stay as long as you want.
01:05:31.000 I also want to get to questions from X. And I'll just say, because I'm not trying to throw this either way, I have complex views.
01:05:38.000 I know it's all nuanced.
01:05:39.000 I think both of you are making great points, and I'm public about that.
01:05:41.000 I want to blow up Israel. 1.00
01:05:43.000 And I also, you know, and I don't like the mullahs, but I don't want to have war with Iran.
01:05:47.000 I know most people don't even like it.
01:05:48.000 My issue is we saw Netanyahu strike them first and drag us in.
01:05:54.000 And look, I know that their proxies, Iran's been striking them in Lebanon and the West Bank and Gaza and with the Houthis.
01:06:00.000 And I mean, nobody can save Starter first.
01:06:03.000 And Iran, you know, does make all these statements, you know, rhetorical.
01:06:06.000 We're going to drive you in the ocean and blow you up and all the rest of it.
01:06:09.000 Okay.
01:06:09.000 So my larger.
01:06:12.000 Sure, sure.
01:06:12.000 Dinesh, I'm going to go to you.
01:06:13.000 I just have been pretty good here.
01:06:14.000 I just want to, and I got some questions coming up here very soon for both of you, and we're going to go to questions.
01:06:20.000 But honing in, because both of you guys are very smart, and I'd like to hear, not even, I mean, it's a debate, but also a discussion.
01:06:28.000 What do you think is about to happen?
01:06:30.000 I know, Dinesh, you have amazing contacts.
01:06:31.000 Trump today says twice at Alligator Alcatraz that, oh, we got a deal Monday.
01:06:36.000 You're going to love it.
01:06:37.000 And Netanyahu's coming and all this.
01:06:40.000 And usually Trump doesn't just bluff.
01:06:42.000 That sounds really good.
01:06:43.000 Then you have the Moodlists putting out a very rare fatua against Trump and Netanyahu on Sunday.
01:06:49.000 So just in general, looking at that, but I will just say, Israel initiating the latest round and us coming into it a week into it, and then all of that.
01:07:01.000 And then I could predict the media was going to say it didn't take out the sites.
01:07:03.000 Clearly the sites were highly damaged or obliterated.
01:07:07.000 But then did they hide fissile material?
01:07:09.000 Then the Moolahs are, we're going to go all the way to Enrichment. 1.00
01:07:11.000 And we did hide it.
01:07:13.000 And it's like to get out of this, the Moolah seem to do whatever it is keeps it going. 0.91
01:07:19.000 It's very bizarre.
01:07:20.000 So it's easy for me on like straight Western politics to know who the sides are, what the interests are.
01:07:25.000 When you get into these moolahs and things, it is, it is, it is, gives me a headache, basically.
01:07:31.000 So, you know, I mean, as a moderator, I'm supposed to just have easy answers here.
01:07:35.000 A lot of bizarre behavior.
01:07:37.000 Why would the Moolahs put a photo out?
01:07:39.000 Well, because maybe they're about to fall.
01:07:41.000 We're seeing some evidence.
01:07:42.000 Their foreign minister on TV contradicting them, saying the nuclear sites were basically destroyed.
01:07:46.000 So the intel I'm getting is they could fall.
01:07:48.000 What happens if the Mulas are cornered then?
01:07:51.000 And see, this just is a complex issue.
01:07:54.000 So you guys can finish up with your round of debates about the history and who's who or whatever.
01:07:59.000 My point is these are two sides absolutely diametrically opposed to each other.
01:08:03.000 And like Trump said, both sides don't know what the fuck they're doing.
01:08:06.000 They've been fighting so long.
01:08:07.000 I agree with that.
01:08:08.000 How could generally gut level, where do both of you see this going?
01:08:11.000 We'll go to Nesh first and finish up with Nick's response if you want.
01:08:14.000 But then where do you see this going next?
01:08:16.000 Can this be de-escalated?
01:08:18.000 What are the paths out of this Dinesh's? 0.92
01:08:22.000 Yeah, the reason I keep anchoring our discussion, not just in history, but kind of in the facts on the ground, is because it's hard to have a debate when the facts are really fuzzy, right?
01:08:32.000 So you mentioned, Alex, that Ned and Yahoo struck first.
01:08:35.000 But if it is true, if it is true that Iran was a driving force behind October 7th, then Israel did not strike first.
01:08:43.000 Israel struck second. 0.77
01:08:45.000 Second of all, let's remember a lot of times, I mean, if we go back in history, not very far, you know, Hitler attacks Poland and Great Britain, Great Britain declares war on Germany.
01:08:55.000 Japan attacks the United States at Pearl Harbor.
01:08:58.000 Did we just go to war with Japan?
01:08:59.000 No, we didn't.
01:09:00.000 We sent a patent, starts taking U.S. troops into Europe. 0.64
01:09:03.000 We went after the Nazis, even though the Nazis did not attack us directly.
01:09:07.000 It was the Japanese who did. 1.00
01:09:09.000 All right, let me turn to Nick.
01:09:11.000 Nick says that it's the goal of Israel to somehow topple all the big, strong powers in the Middle East.
01:09:17.000 And let's test if that's true.
01:09:19.000 Which are the big, strong powers in the Middle East?
01:09:21.000 And the answer is, certainly in the Muslim world, there are three. 0.96
01:09:24.000 There is Saudi Arabia, there is Egypt, and there is Iran.
01:09:28.000 These are the three big boys of the Middle East. 0.96
01:09:31.000 And they are jostling, by the way, for power, the one against the other.
01:09:34.000 Israel has excellent relations with two out of the three.
01:09:38.000 Now, the only reason Israel doesn't have excellent relations with Iran is Iran continues to not only plot and scheme, but openly declare and fund military forces, Hezbollah, also Hamas, that are aimed ultimately at eradicating Israel from the map.
01:09:55.000 That's the meaning of from the river to the sea.
01:09:59.000 So Israel is willing to get along with powerful forces in the region.
01:10:04.000 It's made friends with some of them.
01:10:06.000 It gave back land to Egypt.
01:10:09.000 It's on good terms with Saudi Arabia.
01:10:11.000 I think it would be on good terms with Iran if Iran wasn't driving the aggression from its side. 0.84
01:10:16.000 So I completely reject Nick's idea that somehow Iran is fighting a defensive war.
01:10:22.000 Nobody wants to invade Iran, least of all Israel. 0.76
01:10:26.000 Israel would like to have nothing to do with Iran.
01:10:29.000 They've got a successful society on their own.
01:10:32.000 Now, you're asking about Trump and kind of where all of this is going.
01:10:36.000 And I think I want to highlight the simple point that, look, Trump is actually a kind of master of this kind of, well, I'm going to call it mafia diplomacy.
01:10:46.000 By that, I mean that he acts like Don Corleone.
01:10:50.000 He twists people's arms.
01:10:51.000 He basically tries to pull everybody into line.
01:10:54.000 And sort of this idea, number one, when Trump basically even started talking about the idea of striking the Iranian facilities, there was a massive scream on the part of the, let's call it the Nick Fuentes camp, but there were many others in it.
01:11:09.000 This is disastrous.
01:11:10.000 We're going to be in a war.
01:11:12.000 We're going to have tremendous casualties.
01:11:14.000 The Iranians are going to strike back at us. 1.00
01:11:17.000 Just wait for it.
01:11:18.000 None of this actually happened.
01:11:19.000 So if I'm going to show a little modesty about Iraq, it would be good for Nick to admit that he and so many others were completely wrong about what the effect of Trump strikes were going to be.
01:11:30.000 Number two, Israel is a country of 10 million people or 12 million people.
01:11:35.000 The United States is 350 million plus.
01:11:38.000 Are you seriously telling me that Israel is controlling America?
01:11:43.000 Let's stop there.
01:11:44.000 You just got four minutes.
01:11:45.000 Nick.
01:11:46.000 We're going to go to break and come back.
01:11:47.000 I've got questions, and then listeners have questions from X. Nick, responding to that.
01:11:52.000 Sure.
01:11:52.000 So to address the first point, Saudi Arabia is not a major power in the Middle East.
01:11:57.000 We give them a lot of weapons and things like that, but Saudi Arabia has a small population, mostly foreign workers.
01:12:03.000 It's held together by this weird dynasty from 100 years ago because they sell oil.
01:12:07.000 They couldn't even defeat the Houthis in Yemen.
01:12:09.000 I mean, they were at war with the Houthis for 10 years with American backing.
01:12:13.000 They said they were fighting al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
01:12:15.000 They couldn't beat back these guys.
01:12:17.000 They're pirates, effectively.
01:12:18.000 So Saudi Arabia is not a major power.
01:12:20.000 And what's more is they're effectively in a relationship with Israel already.
01:12:23.000 They, like the Emirates, like Bahrain, are going to enter into the Abraham Accords. 0.99
01:12:27.000 They're submitted to Israel.
01:12:29.000 And that's the fate.
01:12:30.000 If you are against the West, if you're against Israel and the United States, you get overthrown, you get regime changed, you get invaded, civil war, or you're like Egypt and Jordan, where you get bribed and become a Western puppet to Israel.
01:12:42.000 And Saudi Arabia wants to follow suit.
01:12:44.000 So I would just say that.
01:12:45.000 And that's obviously the case also because Netanyahu and other ministers in the Israeli government have said for 30 years they want regime change in Iran.
01:12:53.000 That's just not even disputed.
01:12:54.000 In the mid-1990s, they're calling for regime change.
01:12:56.000 In 2006, Netanyahu is calling for regime change.
01:12:59.000 They're publishing videos all the time in Farsi and English saying the Iranian people need to rise up.
01:13:04.000 It's just not even a question that they do want that.
01:13:07.000 And they want that because Iran is a rival. 0.99
01:13:09.000 Iran has one of the largest populations.
01:13:12.000 It's often said about the Middle East.
01:13:13.000 You've got three countries, Turkey, Egypt, Iran.
01:13:16.000 The rest are tribes of flags.
01:13:17.000 Iran has a big middle class, big economy, oil wealth.
01:13:21.000 They have a lot of intelligent people.
01:13:23.000 They're a threat to Israel's security and hegemony in the region. 0.98
01:13:27.000 And that's why Israel wants to depose that country, along with all the other ones with ambitions, whether they be Islamist or pan-Arabist. 0.80
01:13:34.000 With regard to Israel, and we can maybe get into this topic because I think we sort of settled a lot of this other stuff.
01:13:39.000 We're looping a bit.
01:13:41.000 But to get into the question of Israel driving U.S. foreign policy, it's pretty clear.
01:13:46.000 Trump initiated diplomacy with Iran in April.
01:13:49.000 He had Netanyahu at the White House for talks about the tariffs, and he announced that he was going to engage Iran in negotiations over the nuclear program.
01:13:57.000 That same day, Netanyahu went on TV and said, the only deal we will accept is if we get to blow up Iran's nuclear program and if they follow the Libya model.
01:14:07.000 The Libya model is where Libya gave up their nukes with inspections, and then we regime changed them eight years later. 0.79
01:14:14.000 And that was obviously a poison pill to blow up the talks.
01:14:16.000 They said repeatedly, just last week, the defense minister came out and said, we are pursuing decapitation of the supreme leader.
01:14:24.000 And when asked, did you get permission from the United States?
01:14:27.000 He said, we don't need permission on such matters.
01:14:29.000 And I believe, of course, you absolutely do.
01:14:31.000 I wish it was as you're describing, where we are in control of Israel and they're our client.
01:14:36.000 This has never been the case.
01:14:37.000 Israel was the driving force behind the road to the war in Iraq. 0.83
01:14:41.000 They're the driving force behind the road to the war in Iran. 0.98
01:14:43.000 And the question of, and this is the last thing, just briefly, was I wrong about the strikes in Iran?
01:14:49.000 We're not in a war in Iran.
01:14:50.000 Of course we're in a war in Iran. 0.56
01:14:53.000 Trump killed Suleimani in 2020.
01:14:55.000 He comes back into office and picks up where he left off.
01:14:58.000 Israel attacks Iran, and then we bomb Fordo.
01:15:01.000 And this is going to be the case in the future.
01:15:04.000 Iran says they're not giving up enrichment.
01:15:06.000 The United States says you have to have 0% enrichment.
01:15:08.000 It's setting the stage for more strikes.
01:15:10.000 We've been in a state of hostilities.
01:15:12.000 Nick Fointez, stay right there.
01:15:14.000 We're going to take a break here.
01:15:16.000 I'm going to ask both of you during the break of the producer is how long you want to stay.
01:15:19.000 I'll go another 50 minutes.
01:15:20.000 I'll go another hour and a half, two hours.
01:15:22.000 Oh, five hours.
01:15:22.000 This is riveting.
01:15:23.000 And I think this is a really very professional intellectual debate.
01:15:28.000 This is not people trying to make points for the other person.
01:15:30.000 They're both very knowledgeable.
01:15:32.000 Denysius is a very former head of a federal agency, best-selling other filmmakers, super scholar.
01:15:37.000 Nick for 26 is, you disagree with his politics, agree with him.
01:15:40.000 The guy's a phenomenon.
01:15:41.000 I know any 26-year-old knows half of what he knows.
01:15:45.000 It's very refreshing to hear this.
01:15:46.000 I'm not saying he's going over the audience head.
01:15:48.000 Our audience is way more advanced than most people.
01:15:50.000 I imagine a lot of people, millions, watching on X right now.
01:15:52.000 This is a big viral thing.
01:15:54.000 I'm having like a lot of what they're saying, like remember it?
01:15:56.000 Oh, yeah.
01:15:57.000 So I'm having trouble following some of this with Dinesh, some of the things he's saying.
01:16:01.000 And Nick, that I think about it and go, oh, yeah, that's true.
01:16:03.000 So it was, you know, this is, this is not baby time here.
01:16:07.000 This is not, you know, real simple, mindless slogans.
01:16:10.000 This is a real debate here.
01:16:12.000 And this is what debates I think really should be, like the Lincoln Douglas debates.
01:16:16.000 So we'll find out how long they want to stay.
01:16:19.000 This is all another issue because I told the crew on the expost asking, what are your questions when the debate launched?
01:16:27.000 We can't find out of thousands of questions, maybe 10 that are pro-Israel.
01:16:32.000 And I'm not, again, I don't want to just come on here and read anti-Israel stuff.
01:16:35.000 I want to get both sides for a debate.
01:16:37.000 We literally, which the poll numbers show the whole world's turning against Israel.
01:16:42.000 And they got nuclear weapons.
01:16:43.000 Like Michael Savage is pro-Israel. 0.78
01:16:44.000 He came on last Friday, but he said, no, Israel's going the wrong way.
01:16:47.000 The whole world's turning against them.
01:16:48.000 This is going to get Israel destroyed. 0.96
01:16:49.000 They got nukes.
01:16:50.000 I mean, whether you love Israel or hate them, they get cornered. 0.68
01:16:52.000 Samson option.
01:16:54.000 So, I mean, I'm sitting here telling the crew, get me a pro-Israel comment on X. And I mean, literally, they found like one.
01:17:01.000 I mean, I've got an issue here.
01:17:04.000 Yeah, they're all, you know, it's out of control.
01:17:05.000 The dish is a great guy.
01:17:06.000 I'll put him in jail.
01:17:07.000 He was put in jail by Obama for supporting Trump.
01:17:09.000 So, and by the way, I'm very thankful for Trump overall on domestic policy, economy, everything.
01:17:13.000 I think he did what he thought was best with the Iran strikes. 0.99
01:17:16.000 I hope it works out.
01:17:17.000 And I, you know, we need to be adults about this.
01:17:19.000 We don't be like the left that calls for arresting anyone we disagree with.
01:17:23.000 And I'm just being honest here.
01:17:24.000 I think it's shocking.
01:17:26.000 Everybody's on X saying arrest in that decision.
01:17:28.000 Don't worry.
01:17:29.000 It's already happened to him.
01:17:30.000 So you get two minutes before we go to break.
01:17:36.000 Go ahead.
01:17:37.000 I was saying maybe what we can do is do a brief sort of summary of our positions for a couple of minutes.
01:17:44.000 And then, you know, let's set a time and take questions and we can each get a chance to answer them.
01:17:50.000 And, you know, let's see, it's a little after eight Central Time.
01:17:53.000 Why don't we go till nine if Nick's agreeable?
01:17:55.000 I think we have sort of agreed we'll do two hours total.
01:17:59.000 And so I'm good with that.
01:18:00.000 No, no, it sounds good.
01:18:02.000 You know what I can do?
01:18:02.000 Because I got no serious questions on X. I mean, it's just, I'll read some of these.
01:18:06.000 I mean, they're good questions, but it's all like foaming at the mouth.
01:18:09.000 You know, just whatever.
01:18:10.000 The point is, I'll read them.
01:18:11.000 Okay.
01:18:12.000 I'm just being honest.
01:18:12.000 Like, I wanted to get both sides.
01:18:14.000 I'm not getting it.
01:18:15.000 Well, we'll fire the phones up. 0.88
01:18:17.000 But I want at least an hour.
01:18:18.000 So let's go to 10 after 9.
01:18:19.000 I'll get that both from you because I want to take a bunch of comments.
01:18:22.000 Here's the toll-free number.
01:18:23.000 Fire up the phone system.
01:18:25.000 Never fear.
01:18:26.000 The phones are here.
01:18:27.000 We'll have people calling and actually have some real questions.
01:18:29.000 I'm not like, oh, look at Jones trying to get pro-Israel questions.
01:18:31.000 No, I'm not just going to literally read 50 questions in a row anti-Israel.
01:18:36.000 I want to get both sides for a real debate.
01:18:38.000 So the toll-free number, firing the system up right now, 877-789-2539.
01:18:43.000 877-789-2539.
01:18:45.000 877-789-ALEX.
01:18:47.000 But it shows you just two years ago, half the stuff would be pro-Israel.
01:18:50.000 That's a whole nother issue of what the poll numbers show, the world turning against Israel, which you can even hate Israel.
01:18:56.000 They got nuclear weapons.
01:18:57.000 They're not going away unless it's in Armageddon.
01:19:00.000 877-789-2539.
01:19:02.000 Dinesh D'Souza is a best-selling author and one of the top documentary filmmakers in all time.
01:19:06.000 Probably the number one documentary for actual grosses.
01:19:09.000 Dinesh D. D'Souza, Dinesh's dot com.
01:19:12.000 And of course, you can find Nick Fuentez on Rumble where he dominates at NickJ Fuentez on X, NicholasJFuentez.com.
01:19:19.000 We're going to take a short little four-minute break, and we're going to let both men have six minutes.
01:19:25.000 That way they get plenty of time to make a summation.
01:19:28.000 And then we will take some phone calls and read some blow Israel off the map comments on air.
01:19:34.000 We'll be right back.
01:19:34.000 Stay with us.
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01:23:17.000 And you are the mind, the bones, the guts, the blood, the will, the soul of the InfoWar.
01:23:26.000 So release your will and power now.
01:23:31.000 Destroy them!
01:23:32.000 *Dramatic music*
01:23:38.000 All right.
01:23:38.000 Well, this has been a great debate.
01:23:39.000 We're one hour, 17 minutes into it, but I went to the guest about seven minutes in, so we're about an hour and 10 minutes into it.
01:23:46.000 It's been very intellectual, very informative.
01:23:49.000 I imagined, and I'm undisappointed, that we would mainly focus on the current issues.
01:23:54.000 And so I want to give both men a chance.
01:23:57.000 I forget who went last.
01:23:59.000 Again, I've got the times basically down.
01:24:00.000 Maybe one person got a minute more, somebody else, but I'm being as fair as I can here.
01:24:04.000 Who went last?
01:24:05.000 Was it Zanash or was it Nick?
01:24:07.000 Alex, I went first in the beginning.
01:24:09.000 So why doesn't Nick go first for six, and I'll go for six, and then we'll go to questions.
01:24:13.000 Perfect.
01:24:13.000 So, and then I have one question after that, but Nick, go ahead.
01:24:17.000 Yep, sounds good to me.
01:24:19.000 So to sum up sort of what we've been talking about so far, the question is, what is America first?
01:24:25.000 What's putting America first?
01:24:26.000 I'm not pro-Iran. 0.83
01:24:27.000 I'm not an isolationist, or I'm not Even necessarily opposed to the United States engaging other countries abroad.
01:24:34.000 What I am opposed to is a policy that isn't in our interest.
01:24:36.000 And I think that regime change is something that historically in the Middle East never goes our way.
01:24:41.000 It leads to chaos, civil war, ethnic cleansing, failed states, worse regimes than we got before.
01:24:47.000 I think the U.S. interest in Iran is to prevent them from acquiring a nuclear bomb.
01:24:51.000 I don't think they're pursuing one right now.
01:24:54.000 I think they have a latent threat to deter regime change from Israel.
01:24:58.000 And I think that on the flip side of that, Israel has been pushing for regime change in Iran like they have in virtually every other country for 30 years.
01:25:04.000 That's why the America First position, how do we balance these two competing states, which are they both have their religious zealotry.
01:25:12.000 They both have their share of terrorism.
01:25:14.000 Neither of them are the United States.
01:25:16.000 How do we balance those competing forces in the Middle East?
01:25:19.000 I think we restrain Israel from pursuing regime change in Iran.
01:25:22.000 I think we make a deal with Iran to restrict their nuclear activity.
01:25:26.000 And that comes from a deep respect and humility about the nature of regime change, the size of Iran, the undertaking that regime change would be, and with respect to what our own foreign policy is.
01:25:37.000 You know, I think that we had a nuclear deal with Iran and it was going well.
01:25:40.000 They were abiding by it.
01:25:42.000 We had monitoring.
01:25:43.000 We had 24-7 cameras.
01:25:44.000 We knew what they were doing.
01:25:46.000 We have engaged Iran in good faith before.
01:25:48.000 They've demonstrated by telegraphing strikes and through calibrating them that they're rational, that they can be patient strategically.
01:25:55.000 And I think that we should attempt to do that again.
01:25:58.000 I think that Trump and Biden both tried to do that over the past 12 years.
01:26:02.000 They've been repeatedly sabotaged by Israel.
01:26:04.000 Their dream is to drag us into a confrontation where we fight their regime change war for them. 0.95
01:26:10.000 And I think that's something that serves only the interest of Israeli hegemony and not the interest of American strategic withdrawal and removal from the Middle East so that we could focus on our real rival, which is China. 0.54
01:26:20.000 So that's kind of my big picture view.
01:26:23.000 And it's based on fundamental assumptions about the nature of Iran's regime and what Iran wants.
01:26:27.000 And the same is true about Israel, what the nature of the Israeli regime is and what they want.
01:26:31.000 And so that's a summary of what I think the America first position is in this conflict.
01:26:37.000 All right.
01:26:37.000 So you only went for like less than three minutes.
01:26:42.000 Danesha Susa.
01:26:44.000 Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief as well.
01:26:46.000 I've been trying to sort of figure out Nick Fuentes as this debate has been going on.
01:26:52.000 And I've come to a kind of startling conclusion.
01:26:55.000 I mean this only tentatively because I don't know enough about Nick, but from what I'm hearing, basically Nick Fuentes is a Democrat.
01:27:04.000 And what that means is that he can't be America first because he is echoing all the tired, discredited, have faith in the goodwill of our enemies, have faith in treaties.
01:27:18.000 This is what Democrats said throughout Reagan, throughout the Cold War.
01:27:22.000 Let's trust the Russians.
01:27:23.000 They can be, they're trustworthy.
01:27:25.000 They want peace too, don't they?
01:27:27.000 And now, you know, we have Nick and he's like, you know, we had a deal.
01:27:31.000 Well, it was Obama's deal, remember?
01:27:34.000 You think Obama was a good guy?
01:27:35.000 You think Obama was America first?
01:27:37.000 What do you think Obama was up to?
01:27:39.000 America last. 0.93
01:27:40.000 Obama's idea was let's strengthen our enemies and undermine our friends.
01:27:45.000 Why do you think he got rid of Mubarak in Egypt?
01:27:47.000 Because he was an ally of the United States.
01:27:49.000 And then we got the Muslim Brotherhood in power in Egypt.
01:27:52.000 That was not, Obama is not the same as Jimmy Carter.
01:27:55.000 Jimmy Carter was an idiot.
01:27:56.000 He was a nincum poop. 1.00
01:27:58.000 We'll give him the presidential nincum poopery award. 0.98
01:28:01.000 Obama's malevolent.
01:28:02.000 Obama represents ultimately, if you follow what Obama says, it's basically what our enemies want and not what we want.
01:28:09.000 And so notice, Nick, how close your position is to Obama.
01:28:13.000 The Iranians are reasonable.
01:28:14.000 The Iranians don't have any imperialistic ambitions.
01:28:18.000 They don't have any real ill will toward Israel.
01:28:21.000 Their militarization is purely defensive.
01:28:24.000 We can make a peaceful deal with them.
01:28:26.000 The only thing you didn't say is we should give them a whole bunch of money.
01:28:29.000 I guess that's your one difference with Obama is you wouldn't give them the pallets of cash that Obama turned over.
01:28:35.000 But otherwise, you're saying pretty much the same thing.
01:28:37.000 Now, here's what I'm saying, which is the opposite.
01:28:40.000 In the world, America has allies and we have enemies.
01:28:45.000 Our enemies, our rivals, their adversaries, they wish us ill.
01:28:49.000 They would do regime change over here if they could.
01:28:52.000 And who are some of those people?
01:28:53.000 Well, China, to some degree, Russia, certainly Iran.
01:28:57.000 And so any, I mean, if you read Klauswitz, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, the whole idea is you want to weaken your enemies and strengthen your friends.
01:29:08.000 That's what America first means.
01:29:10.000 It means promoting American interests in the world.
01:29:13.000 And you seem to be promoting the opposite.
01:29:15.000 You seem to be saying, well, enemies aren't that bad and our friends aren't our real friends.
01:29:19.000 Why don't we put some pressure on our friends and why don't we trust our enemies more?
01:29:24.000 I mean, this is basically straight out the logic of the Democratic Party.
01:29:29.000 It's been disproven time and time again.
01:29:32.000 And I think you're wrongly drawing lessons from the Iraq war that are basically turning you into a 26-year-old Obama.
01:29:40.000 Okay, so I said six minute closing comments, but Nick went less than three.
01:29:44.000 You just went less than three.
01:29:45.000 So let's keep going here.
01:29:46.000 Nick, I'm sure you want to respond to that.
01:29:48.000 Yeah, I didn't really expect where you were going with that, but in retrospect, I should have.
01:29:54.000 When you said this is tentative and I, you know, I've just met you.
01:29:57.000 I thought maybe it was going to be positive, but I should have known it was going to be, he's a Democrat.
01:30:02.000 It's just a very strange thing that the moral universe you live in seems to be based on partisanship.
01:30:08.000 It's Republicans and Democrats, like the KKK, the Nazis, Iran, like every ideology that's against like America and Israel's interests can be, can be kind of molded into this like Democrat Party narrative.
01:30:21.000 The thing is about Democrats and Republicans, I don't think there's a big difference.
01:30:24.000 We have the same national security apparatus.
01:30:27.000 Obama had the same defense secretary as Bush.
01:30:30.000 And we maintain very much a similar foreign policy under Obama that we did under Bush.
01:30:35.000 And then again, under Trump, Biden, and then Trump again, I think we have a deep state.
01:30:39.000 The Pentagon, CENTCOM, National Security Council, the Directorate of National Intelligence, the IC.
01:30:45.000 I mean, all these people are permanent bureaucrats.
01:30:47.000 I don't think there's a lot of daylight between Republicans and Democrats.
01:30:50.000 I think that's a meaningless distinction.
01:30:52.000 I wouldn't say, I don't know what that means to be a Democrat.
01:30:54.000 I'm a Catholic.
01:30:55.000 I'm a reactionary.
01:30:56.000 I'm in favor of immigration moratorium. 1.00
01:30:58.000 I voted for Trump in 16.
01:31:00.000 Like, I don't know where you get off saying I'm a Democrat, other than that, I think we should pursue diplomacy.
01:31:05.000 And by the way, it's not based on good faith towards our enemies, like Iran or Russia, or China for that matter.
01:31:11.000 It's based and anchored again in foreign policy realism.
01:31:14.000 I'm a realist.
01:31:15.000 I'm not a liberal internationalist or a liberal globalist where I believe there's a world of friendly democracies and autocratic foes.
01:31:23.000 I would say that Israel is similarly a foe. 0.98
01:31:26.000 Israel spies on Americans. 0.68
01:31:28.000 Israel has planned and perpetrated false flag attacks against Americans in the past.
01:31:33.000 When 9-11 happened, Bibi Netanyahu said it's a good thing because now we can sympathize with what they go through.
01:31:40.000 And they looked at that as a gift because they thought that we would support them against the Palestinians and then we would support them against their other rivals in the region. 0.94
01:31:49.000 You know, so this idea that we have friends and foes and, you know, the Israel's part of the Avengers and the Iran is part of the bad guys. 0.97
01:31:57.000 I think this is just juvenile and childish.
01:32:00.000 And it's like I'm debating Fox News, this kind of stuff about the debate format, which is fine.
01:32:06.000 Dinesh, counter that and then back to Nick response back.
01:32:09.000 But I have a few questions for you that I want to go to callers and I want to go to comments on X. But Dinesh, anything back?
01:32:18.000 Yeah, the polarization of the world is not the result of some sort of ideological fantasy.
01:32:28.000 It's a simple reality.
01:32:29.000 You can see it in the animal kingdom.
01:32:31.000 If there are two strong animals that are in a herd, they will fight each other for leadership.
01:32:37.000 If there are two powerful countries in the world, they will become rivals.
01:32:41.000 And the small countries around them will basically take sides.
01:32:45.000 And you will begin to see this kind of polarization.
01:32:47.000 It's not survival of the fittest.
01:32:49.000 It's not survival.
01:32:50.000 It's a description of a power struggle that drives international relations.
01:32:55.000 And you'd be very naive if you don't see that force is at the bottom of international politics.
01:33:01.000 Now, domestically, American politics is divided generally into two camps.
01:33:06.000 Now, I realize that Nick wants to say, oh, they're just the same.
01:33:09.000 But just think of the stupidity of saying that, because if they're just the same, it would make no difference if Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan won the 1980 election.
01:33:18.000 I honestly believe that if Reagan wasn't in power for two terms, the Soviet Union might not have collapsed.
01:33:24.000 In a sense, Nick is saying he voted for Trump in 1916, but it didn't really matter.
01:33:28.000 It wouldn't have mattered if Hillary was president because Hillary would have been pretty much the same as Trump. 1.00
01:33:34.000 And similarly, Nick is saying now that he wouldn't mind really if Kamala Harris won the 2024 election, because after all, the country would be pretty much the same because the two parties are a uniparty.
01:33:46.000 And as to quote him, these are meaningless distinctions.
01:33:49.000 Well, I think the whole idea of America First, of MAGA, of Trump is based on the idea that, look, yes, there are common forces.
01:33:57.000 The intelligence agencies have been a malign influence in both parties.
01:34:01.000 And there are, of course, there is a kind of drinking at the swamp establishment and Republicans and Democrats are part of that.
01:34:07.000 But nevertheless, there are distinctions that really matter.
01:34:12.000 This country already, in just a few months, is very different than it would be if Kamala Harris, the border would not be secure.
01:34:19.000 We wouldn't be looking at making these tax cuts permanent.
01:34:22.000 We wouldn't be looking at 10,000 new border agents.
01:34:25.000 And on and on it goes.
01:34:26.000 We would be dealing with the trans phenomenon, would be shoved down our throats. 1.00
01:34:30.000 Probably, Nick, you and Alex would still be thrown off social media.
01:34:35.000 So the Trump phenomenon matters.
01:34:38.000 Trump has made a difference.
01:34:40.000 I'm not saying that Trump is not open to criticism.
01:34:42.000 I'm not saying that MAGA means some kind of a, we all have to follow Trump like the Pied Piper.
01:34:48.000 But what I am saying is that Trump has proven far more often to be right than wrong.
01:34:53.000 And if I'm choosing to be the former president...
01:34:55.000 Thank you.
01:34:56.000 Brief comeback from Nick.
01:34:57.000 I think I'm going to go with Trump.
01:34:59.000 All right.
01:34:59.000 I understand.
01:35:00.000 Nick, quick comeback.
01:35:00.000 And then I got a couple of questions for you guys.
01:35:02.000 I don't want to go to questions from the audience.
01:35:05.000 Yeah, I mean, as far as all of this is concerned, Trump and Biden and Kamal and all of that, I would say yes.
01:35:11.000 I don't think it's even controversial at this point to say that there really is no distinction, especially when it concerns matter of foreign policy.
01:35:18.000 I mean, Biden gave Israel $20 billion last year.
01:35:22.000 When Israel was in peril, when Israel was fighting this war in Gaza and against the Houthis in Hezbollah, it was Biden last year in April that gave Israel $20 billion, which is a huge military aid package.
01:35:34.000 And Biden showed up when Iran retaliated against Israel in April of last year, and then again in October of last year, and even earlier when Israel initiated these provocations earlier in July and in April of 24.
01:35:47.000 It was Biden that deployed the carriers to protect Israel and shoot down all the incoming missiles from Iran and from Hezbollah and from the Houthis and actually offensively bombed them, bombed the Houthis, bombed the Shiite militias in Iraq and Syria.
01:36:01.000 And for all people like to say, you know, the Democrats are abandoning our friends and empowering our enemies.
01:36:07.000 No, actually the opposite is true.
01:36:09.000 You know, Biden gave this huge aid package to Ukraine, our big ally.
01:36:12.000 They gave a huge aid package to Israel, our big ally.
01:36:16.000 So I think that whether we had Kamala or Trump, we would be engaging in strikes against Iran right now.
01:36:21.000 I don't think anyone even doubts that slightly.
01:36:24.000 And so the question, again, what is America?
01:36:26.000 I don't care about being Republican and Democrat.
01:36:28.000 It means nothing to me.
01:36:29.000 I'm independent.
01:36:30.000 I'm America first.
01:36:31.000 It's a question of what's in our interest.
01:36:33.000 And you can say, you can appeal to this tribalism and say, you sound like Jimmy Carter.
01:36:37.000 Okay, that's 50 years ago.
01:36:39.000 What's in America's interest is not another regime change war.
01:36:42.000 No matter our level of involvement, it's too unpredictable.
01:36:45.000 It's too much chaos.
01:36:46.000 There's no guarantee we'll get something better or something that isn't horribly worse.
01:36:50.000 This is what Israel wants. 0.95
01:36:52.000 This is not what we want.
01:36:53.000 We want nuclear nonproliferation.
01:36:55.000 They want regime change.
01:36:57.000 We should have nonproliferation. 0.66
01:36:58.000 Okay.
01:36:59.000 Now, again, it's great.
01:37:00.000 It's amazing.
01:37:01.000 I want to go to comments, questions.
01:37:02.000 This is huge.
01:37:02.000 People are millions are tuning in right now, just on X alone, millions everywhere else.
01:37:08.000 This is a real, raw debate, folks.
01:37:10.000 When you see corporate media, the questions are already prepared.
01:37:12.000 It's been planned for months or weeks.
01:37:14.000 This is real unfiltered.
01:37:15.000 None of us talk before the show other than text messages.
01:37:17.000 Hey, are you ready to come on the show?
01:37:18.000 That's it.
01:37:19.000 So this was raw.
01:37:20.000 This is what it's all about.
01:37:21.000 This is real media.
01:37:22.000 We're so blessed to be here.
01:37:23.000 So thankful the crew.
01:37:24.000 So blessed for all the listeners and viewers tuning in and the clips of this going viral everywhere.
01:37:28.000 This is what it's all about.
01:37:29.000 Let Me ask you both this question.
01:37:32.000 I know you're both pundits and both analysts, and you have your views, and I think you both come from a position of realism and integrity that you believe what you're saying.
01:37:40.000 We all see the rose-colored darklies, but we believe what we're saying. 1.00
01:37:43.000 Sometimes we're a little bit wrong, and me mostly right, maybe.
01:37:46.000 But I want you to both do, and you know, basically as a favor to me, do what I do.
01:37:55.000 And I know you both do this because Nick said I think Trump very soon will hit Iran when he was running for office the last time, you know, eight, nine months ago, right before he got elected.
01:38:05.000 And he thought this would be a big crisis.
01:38:06.000 And I know, you know, Dinesh has made a lot of predictions come true.
01:38:09.000 I want to ask you both, first Dinesh, then Nick, gut level, I think Trump thought he did the right thing, believed he was shutting this down, putting back the nuclear program.
01:38:20.000 The left and others won't do that.
01:38:22.000 They want to keep it going, which then adds the war. 0.60
01:38:23.000 The Moodles are saying, don't worry, we're going to end red.
01:38:25.000 She's not going to stop us.
01:38:26.000 I see this as the beginning of quagmire.
01:38:28.000 I have a really bad feeling about where it's going.
01:38:30.000 So here's the simple question, which is a super complex question.
01:38:35.000 But most simple questions are.
01:38:36.000 They look simple, but they're not.
01:38:38.000 How do you gut level see this ending, Dinesh, to say regime change, wider war, Iran rolling over?
01:38:47.000 Gut level, how do you see this ending and how would you like to see it end?
01:38:50.000 And what do you think we as the American people can do to have this end in a peaceful way?
01:38:55.000 All right.
01:38:56.000 I think that the Trump strike on the three nuclear facilities was a brilliant move because it was basically what it was is essentially an overnight job.
01:39:07.000 We fly over there.
01:39:09.000 We clobber their nuclear facilities.
01:39:11.000 We don't suffer a single casualty.
01:39:13.000 They don't even know we're there.
01:39:14.000 They have no control over their own skies.
01:39:16.000 We had all these fighter planes, by the way, accompanying those B-2 bombers because B-2 bombers can't defend themselves.
01:39:22.000 But not a single fighter plane was really needed.
01:39:24.000 They ended up just flying sort of decoratively around the B-2 bombers for no good reason.
01:39:29.000 And then they all came back safely.
01:39:31.000 And what is the result?
01:39:32.000 A crippling of Iran's nuclear facilities.
01:39:35.000 So look, whether they were at 80%, whether they were getting there, whether they were almost there, whether they were weeks away, whether they were months away, who cares?
01:39:43.000 Their program has now suffered a devastating setback.
01:39:47.000 And even though initially the media tried to deny it, they've now pretty much come out and admitted it.
01:39:52.000 Machiavelli says something very profound.
01:39:54.000 People can get revenge for small injuries, but they cannot get revenge for large injuries.
01:40:00.000 And what that means is that by and large, when you go poke somebody, they're going to come back and poke you back in the eye.
01:40:06.000 On the other hand, if you give such a devastating blow from which they can never recover, they are too preoccupied with their own survival to even worry about you anymore.
01:40:15.000 It's going to take a long time for Iran to get back on its feet. 0.87
01:40:19.000 Now, I think that the mullahs are going to try to survive, to hang in there, to slowly rebuild their power. 1.00
01:40:27.000 And so this is actually the downside of striking and then leaving, in a sense, sort of snatching partial victory out of the jaws of total victory.
01:40:37.000 Because I don't think we're very far away from the mullahs essentially running away. 1.00
01:40:41.000 There were even reports that some of the top Iranian officials were already starting to leave the country.
01:40:46.000 And just before the regime falls, we go, oh, well, we better stop.
01:40:50.000 You know, we don't really care about, quote, regime change.
01:40:53.000 And so Trump doesn't want to quagmire, Dinesh.
01:40:57.000 Who knows who's going to come in the vacuum?
01:40:59.000 We never know, Alex.
01:41:01.000 But the point is, when you have these dangerous situations in the world, you have to make a judgment call about whether what's going to come later is better or worse.
01:41:10.000 We have certain red lines.
01:41:12.000 One of them is we're not committing troops.
01:41:14.000 We're not going to commit troops unless Iran attacks U.S. borders or U.S. bases. 0.94
01:41:19.000 If they do that, then Trump's, you know, we're not in a war has to be set up.
01:41:23.000 So let me raise this now that we're deep into this.
01:41:25.000 I got a few questions, Nash.
01:41:27.000 If the Moodles are so insane and they just put a file out, which goes to that side of the question, on the other side, they did like in 2020 when they attacked the Iraq base and called Trump before and said, we're going to launch 18 missiles in the desert. 0.90
01:41:38.000 And they did as a face-saving event.
01:41:40.000 They did that again this time, called ahead when they were going to hit Qatar and did that.
01:41:44.000 So they're so crazy.
01:41:46.000 Why did they then telegraph all this and try to de-escalate?
01:41:50.000 Because, like I said, to come back to the quote from Machiavelli, when somebody is down on their back and you're standing on top of them with your foot on their chest, they're going to behave themselves wonderfully.
01:42:02.000 They're going to be very, see, Iran did not actually want to strike us because they realized, of course, the logic, if they strike us, we're going to strike them 10 times harder. 0.97
01:42:11.000 And so they were like good pussycat. 0.99
01:42:13.000 They basically were like, we'll behave ourselves.
01:42:15.000 We'll pretend to attack you and you pretend to go ouch, ouch, ouch. 0.99
01:42:19.000 I mean, this is actually the definition of total victory.
01:42:22.000 If you get into an MMA fight with some guy and at the end, he goes, listen, I want to convince my family that I'm not a wimp.
01:42:28.000 So I'll pretend to throw a punch at the very end and you pretend that you're bending over, even though you've clearly won the fight.
01:42:34.000 What does that tell you?
01:42:35.000 And so you say maybe the Fatawa is that as well?
01:42:38.000 How do we know some of their followers don't follow that order?
01:42:42.000 We don't know that.
01:42:43.000 And I think we should take preparations to make.
01:42:45.000 I don't have, I'm not a believer, as Nick is in Iranian goodwill.
01:42:49.000 I think if they put fatwas on you, there are going to be radical Muslims who are going to be willing to carry it out. 0.99
01:42:55.000 There are probably some of those in this country.
01:42:57.000 So we need to be taking preemptive or precautionary steps to make sure that we have the carrier out.
01:43:02.000 So, yeah, Nick, Nick, that's a lot to unpack.
01:43:05.000 Go ahead.
01:43:06.000 Yeah, to answer the original question, where this is going, I think we're trapped.
01:43:10.000 I think we're trapped in a situation where now it's inevitable that there will be more tension.
01:43:14.000 There will be more tension.
01:43:15.000 There will be more conflict.
01:43:16.000 We're not getting out of this.
01:43:18.000 And it basically comes down to this.
01:43:19.000 We had a deal with Iran.
01:43:21.000 We overcame decades of distrust and decades of suspicion from Iran.
01:43:26.000 We made a deal that satisfied Russia, China, the E3 countries, the European, France, Germany, and the UK, and the United States.
01:43:34.000 We had a deal with monitoring, with verification, with 24-7 cameras.
01:43:37.000 Like Dinesh himself said, we know everything about their program because they disclosed it to us.
01:43:43.000 And the IAEA report said they had no weapons program since at least 2009, but probably not meaningfully since 2003.
01:43:51.000 So we had a deal.
01:43:53.000 Everybody was playing by the rules for years.
01:43:55.000 Trump pulled us out and now they don't trust us again.
01:43:57.000 Trump killed their general.
01:43:59.000 Now they hate us.
01:44:01.000 Then Trump engages them in diplomacy and he comes back to power.
01:44:04.000 And there's all this fanfare about they're going to make a deal.
01:44:07.000 We might be able to make terms with the United States.
01:44:10.000 And what does Trump do?
01:44:11.000 He says, we knew the whole time this was a ploy for a sneak attack by Israel to attack Iran.
01:44:17.000 Then we come in and bomb them.
01:44:19.000 And contrary to what Dinesh says, if there's some new report, I haven't seen it.
01:44:22.000 On the contrary, U.S. intelligence, Europeans, Iran, and Israel all have said we did not destroy Fordo.
01:44:30.000 We didn't even destroy their nuclear stockpile.
01:44:32.000 They said we weren't even trying to destroy their nuclear stockpile.
01:44:34.000 So now what they're saying is Iran still has a stockpile.
01:44:37.000 They have centrifuges we don't know about.
01:44:39.000 Iran says we're never giving up enrichment.
01:44:42.000 They're moving heavy equipment to Ford to rebuild it.
01:44:44.000 And what are the Israelis saying?
01:44:46.000 The Israelis are saying we're going to treat Iran like Lebanon, which means we're going to bomb them all the time with no restriction. 0.99
01:44:51.000 So, you know, this ceasefire, Israel never makes good on ceasefires.
01:44:55.000 They made one with Hamas. 1.00
01:44:57.000 They didn't implement the second phase.
01:44:58.000 They made one with Hezbollah. 1.00
01:45:00.000 They bombed them throughout.
01:45:01.000 None of them trust Israel. 0.87
01:45:02.000 None of them trust us.
01:45:04.000 And now, if we don't make a deal with Iran, there really is only one other option. 0.97
01:45:08.000 Iran doesn't trust us. 0.99
01:45:09.000 Russia didn't bail them out.
01:45:11.000 They're clearly vulnerable to Israeli intelligence.
01:45:14.000 The only deterrent that they can get to prevent further hostilities, you know, now they're talking about pulling out of the NPT and maybe getting a nuclear weapon.
01:45:21.000 So as far as I'm concerned, our fate is sealed.
01:45:23.000 And Israel drove, they orchestrated this every step of the way. 0.98
01:45:28.000 They engineered the confrontation in April last year.
01:45:31.000 They attacked Iranian generals in Syria.
01:45:33.000 They provoked the other confrontation in July.
01:45:36.000 They killed the leader of Hamas in Tehran.
01:45:39.000 Nick, I want to go to comments and questions now.
01:45:41.000 Both of you are making very interesting points.
01:45:43.000 Quick announcement.
01:45:44.000 Can I just do a really quick one?
01:45:45.000 Go ahead.
01:45:46.000 Just a really quick, just a quick response, because it seems to me that Nick has been moving in a kind of crab fashion, saying one thing, contradicting it, then saying the opposite, then saying the opposite again.
01:45:57.000 And here's what I mean.
01:45:58.000 At the beginning of this debate, Nick, you said emphatically, Iran has every good defensive reason to want to build a nuclear weapon. 0.97
01:46:08.000 You said Israel has nuclear weapons.
01:46:10.000 And so Iran, in order to counter Israel, needs to have a nuclear weapon on its own. 0.86
01:46:15.000 Then you said, but even though it's in their interest to build a nuclear weapon, albeit defensively, somehow a treaty is going to convince them not to do it.
01:46:24.000 It's kind of like saying it's in my interest to do something, but because you put a piece of paper in front of me, I'm going to go, gee, I'm not going to do that because I'm such a nice guy.
01:46:33.000 No, if it's in Iran's interest to build a nuclear weapon, they're going to try to do it openly or covertly, but they're going to try to do it one way or the other, according to your own logic.
01:46:44.000 Then you said, we tried to bomb their facility.
01:46:47.000 And you said, but you know what?
01:46:48.000 We probably didn't do a very good job.
01:46:50.000 And a lot of their nuclear facilities are in place.
01:46:53.000 And in fact, they might just turn around and build a nuclear weapon.
01:46:56.000 Now, you just told us that Iran has no desire to build a nuclear weapon.
01:47:00.000 You told us earlier that it's against Islam.
01:47:03.000 They've made some Islamic proclamation against it.
01:47:05.000 But now you're telling us, first of all, that there were obviously some fairly advanced facilities.
01:47:10.000 We tried to bomb them, but unsuccessfully.
01:47:13.000 So they're still in place.
01:47:14.000 And gee, if the Iranians get really mad, they can now just get together and put that nuclear bomb together. 1.00
01:47:20.000 Well, obviously, that means if it's in their interest to do it, and they're not that far from doing it now, we were certainly right to bomb them.
01:47:27.000 If anything, we should have had a second round of bombing to make sure we finished the job.
01:47:31.000 According to the money.
01:47:32.000 I want Nick to be able to comment.
01:47:34.000 I'll keep you guys all night.
01:47:34.000 I want to go to these comments.
01:47:35.000 You guys got to stay we can do that.
01:47:36.000 Callers and comments.
01:47:38.000 But Nick, back to my question, respond to Nash.
01:47:42.000 Quick summation.
01:47:43.000 How do you see this ending?
01:47:44.000 I know you don't have a crystal ball, but currently, where's this going?
01:47:48.000 Regime, like I said, I think we're trapped.
01:47:50.000 I think we're trapped.
01:47:51.000 It's going to end in regime change one way or the other.
01:47:53.000 As far as the apparent contradictions, I said at the start that they are engaging in nuclear hedging.
01:47:59.000 And what does that mean?
01:48:00.000 It means that they have the infrastructure, the expertise, and the technology to make a bomb if the security situation demands it.
01:48:07.000 The reason they probably could have developed a bomb by 2012.
01:48:11.000 The earliest estimate says that Iran could have had a bomb.
01:48:14.000 They had all the pieces in place by 2010.
01:48:18.000 And in the longest term timeline, 2012 is when they could have had a bomb.
01:48:22.000 Why did they not do that?
01:48:24.000 Because getting a bomb would invite aggression, because the United States has a non-proliferation doctrine.
01:48:30.000 But not having any latent ability would be weakness.
01:48:33.000 And that would also invite aggression.
01:48:35.000 Countries that don't have nukes can be destroyed by countries that have them.
01:48:38.000 So that's why it's hedging.
01:48:40.000 It's hedging development.
01:48:42.000 Wait, wait, wait.
01:48:42.000 Let me finish.
01:48:42.000 Let me finish.
01:48:43.000 Let me finish because this is really important.
01:48:46.000 So the reason why the deal changes this dynamic is because if we can give Iran confidence and assurances, we are not going to invade you.
01:48:55.000 We don't have designs on overthrowing you.
01:48:58.000 Then Iran can have restrictions on their nuclear program and they can ensure us they're not going to weaponize. 0.77
01:49:04.000 I said there's other countries that do this too.
01:49:06.000 Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, they're hedging as well.
01:49:09.000 Why do they have nuclear programs? 0.52
01:49:11.000 North Korea and China.
01:49:12.000 Now, the reason they don't have nuclear bombs is because they can rely upon the United States to deter attacks from North Korea and China.
01:49:20.000 If that changed, it would be in their interest to develop a bomb.
01:49:23.000 So it has to do with their level of confidence.
01:49:25.000 It has to do with the current security situation.
01:49:28.000 So they have the ability to make one.
01:49:30.000 Getting one would invite aggression.
01:49:31.000 Not having one makes them vulnerable.
01:49:33.000 Now, we had a chance to make a deal that was based on mutual trust and assurances.
01:49:37.000 We blew up that trust.
01:49:38.000 That's why Iran started gradually increasing their stockpile of highly enriched uranium in reaction to cyber attacks, assassinations against their scientists, their generals, attacks against their nuclear plants. 0.69
01:49:50.000 And then, wait, wait, last thing, last thing, last thing, super important.
01:49:53.000 When we bombed Iran, that's their worst nightmare. 1.00
01:49:56.000 So that's why now they might be contemplating, oh, well, the breakout time is here.
01:50:01.000 The security situation has changed.
01:50:02.000 We need a nuke.
01:50:03.000 We're imminently in danger of being overthrown.
01:50:06.000 And that's really important.
01:50:07.000 I want to be clear.
01:50:07.000 I've been very good for the last hour and 45 minutes.
01:50:09.000 You guys are doing a great job, by the way.
01:50:11.000 I just, I agree with you, Nick.
01:50:12.000 And the CIA came out months after I said this and said attacking them may accelerate them towards finishing their bomb with nuclear hedging.
01:50:20.000 So let me ask Dinesh D'Souza that, and we got to go with these questions and comments.
01:50:23.000 I'm going to make you guys stay.
01:50:24.000 We have to do it.
01:50:25.000 Bunch of callers, a bunch of comments.
01:50:27.000 What about that issue that this accelerates them into that?
01:50:31.000 I think that is common sense, Dinesh.
01:50:34.000 Yeah, but there is a little bit of unrealism to it.
01:50:39.000 And some of the times, I think what happens is we get caught in this spider web of analytics.
01:50:45.000 This is Iran's motive. 1.00
01:50:46.000 They're hedging.
01:50:47.000 They're, you know, as if we're listening to some stock trade.
01:50:50.000 I got a hedge here.
01:50:51.000 It's very simple.
01:50:52.000 If you had a guy that lives down the street whose official doctrine is death to Alex Jones or death to Nick Fuentes, and that guy in his basement is making a bomb that can take out your home, take you out, take out your whole family, you're not going to sit around and go, well, what's the computation going on in their mind?
01:51:14.000 You're going to say that, guess what?
01:51:16.000 If that guy has the intention, which is to say the motive, and he has the ability to deliver this bomb in a catastrophic way, then guess what?
01:51:24.000 If I've got some friend in the neighborhood, let's call it Israel, and they go, listen, we're happy to go do the job for you. 0.94
01:51:31.000 We will go clobber that guy. 0.97
01:51:32.000 But guess what?
01:51:33.000 There's one part of the room we can't get to.
01:51:35.000 If you will lend us a plane for one night, we will bomb that part of the house.
01:51:40.000 And that'll be the end of that guy.
01:51:42.000 No more debt to America.
01:51:43.000 You'll be able to sleep safely at night, you and your family.
01:51:47.000 Who wouldn't take that deal?
01:51:48.000 Who would sit around going, well, we have a relationship based on mutual trust?
01:51:52.000 They keep saying debt to America, but we don't really believe them because lots of other people say similar things.
01:51:58.000 And so therefore, we're going to do an Obama type deal in which by and large, we kind of look the other way.
01:52:05.000 We don't even have good ways to fully monitor what they're doing.
01:52:08.000 Nick conceded they have the motive to do it, the interest in doing it, and they can do it pretty much whenever they want.
01:52:14.000 And you're saying we should rest at ease when we have people like that with essentially dangerous weapons.
01:52:20.000 Okay, Dinesh, Dinesh.
01:52:21.000 I want to go to comments and callers now.
01:52:23.000 I just want to ask you guys one more question.
01:52:28.000 People can look at it from an Israeli perspective, American perspective, Iranian perspective, but we've seen this whole chain and we've seen Wesley Clark, you know, 15, 20 years ago saying he was in the Pentagon meeting seven countries of regime change.
01:52:41.000 And we saw all that.
01:52:43.000 That's why Americans are against this.
01:52:45.000 It's not because we support the Mulas. 0.82
01:52:47.000 It's because, you know, we see this larger issue.
01:52:50.000 And that's my personal view.
01:52:52.000 I don't like the Moolahs, but at the same time, I don't want to be lied into a quagmire much worse than Vietnam. 1.00
01:52:57.000 93 million people, potentially hidden nuclear weapons.
01:53:01.000 And Russia and China have said no more dominoes are going to fall.
01:53:04.000 This is part of a proxy war in World War III that's really already begun between the West and China and Russia.
01:53:10.000 We all know that.
01:53:11.000 So both of you, just one minute on, one minute on where the world is.
01:53:14.000 Has World War III already begun?
01:53:17.000 And do you guys agree with me that this is a proxy war or a hybrid war battleground between what's left of the West and the emerging new multipolar world?
01:53:32.000 I would just sum it up in a single sentence or two, and that is basically, I trust Trump in the same way that I trusted Reagan.
01:53:40.000 I don't think, I think Trump himself, just like the rest of us, was there for Iraq.
01:53:45.000 He learned the lessons of Iraq the same as the rest of us.
01:53:48.000 The difference is this is a guy who knows how to operate on the global chessboard.
01:53:53.000 He's already proven it in his first term.
01:53:55.000 He didn't drag us into any wars.
01:53:58.000 He has been a no-war president.
01:54:02.000 And I think he's a no-war president now.
01:54:04.000 I think he's trying to settle the issue in the Middle East the same way as he's trying to settle the issue in Ukraine.
01:54:12.000 This is not the same between the two parties.
01:54:13.000 Kamala Harris would never have ordered this strike on Iran.
01:54:18.000 Why?
01:54:18.000 Because she has too many jihadis in her own party.
01:54:22.000 This is the party of Ilhan Omar.
01:54:23.000 It's the party, and I'm afraid it's a party.
01:54:26.000 This is why I suggested that Nick might be a Democrat, because a lot of the things that he said tonight are pretty much an echo of Ilhan Omar.
01:54:34.000 We can trust Iran. 0.72
01:54:35.000 They don't have any evil intentions.
01:54:36.000 They're a rational power.
01:54:37.000 They don't have any ill will.
01:54:39.000 Israel's the real problem. 1.00
01:54:40.000 Well, I mean, that's Ilhan Omar.
01:54:42.000 Okay, final comeback, Nick.
01:54:43.000 We got to take a few questions because everybody's got to go here soon.
01:54:46.000 It's an amazing live debate right now.
01:54:48.000 Tuesday, July 1st, interview.
01:54:49.000 We are at 848 Central here.
01:54:52.000 Appreciate both these guys being with us.
01:54:54.000 Nick, final comeback to that.
01:54:57.000 Yeah, I mean, the Democrat thing is just so crazy.
01:55:00.000 I just don't even know how to respond to that.
01:55:02.000 I mean, I guess the basis of the debate is I'm trying to talk about the present timeline.
01:55:07.000 I'm talking about the details of Iran's program, cause and effect, you know, the mindset of these countries, how they calibrate, how they calculate their strategies.
01:55:16.000 And then we get these kind of like fables, you know, from the cave paintings of Lascaux, the Barbary Pirates, you know, Ronald Reagan.
01:55:25.000 And it's just like, what am I watching here?
01:55:27.000 I feel like we're just in two different universes.
01:55:29.000 And, you know, look, I was sympathetic to a lot of those arguments at one time.
01:55:32.000 I read your books, Dinesh, and I watched your speeches when I was in high school.
01:55:36.000 And I was big into Fox News and all that stuff.
01:55:38.000 But I just feel like it's a completely different reality.
01:55:41.000 And I would say that the big picture, which we can all see, is that the Israelis, once again, are trying to drive us into another one of their wars, some dimension of U.S. involvement that is really not in our interest. 0.89
01:55:53.000 I don't trust Trump at all.
01:55:55.000 Clearly, he has no control over Netanyahu, who cannot restrain Israel at all.
01:55:59.000 And the tail is wagging the dog.
01:56:01.000 He pulls his chair out for him.
01:56:03.000 And Trump said repeatedly, we want to make a deal.
01:56:05.000 We want to make a deal.
01:56:06.000 And Israel said, no, we accept no deal.
01:56:09.000 We don't care about the terms.
01:56:11.000 If it's good, if it's bad, we're bombing Iran anyway. 1.00
01:56:13.000 And the second the time ran out on Trump's deadline, they were scheduling a sixth round of talks for that Friday.
01:56:19.000 And then that Sunday, Israel let loose and they bombed Iran and they started this war, one they knew they couldn't win. 0.70
01:56:26.000 They started getting pummeled and they knew that would force the United States to intervene in a way that wasn't effective.
01:56:32.000 And look, now we're in it.
01:56:33.000 Now we're trapped in this problem.
01:56:35.000 You're going to see it rear its head again in a few months and there will be more U.S. involvement.
01:56:38.000 We spent $30 billion on this conflict so far.
01:56:41.000 There's nothing America first about it.
01:56:43.000 I don't trust Iran. 0.99
01:56:44.000 I don't like Iran. 0.99
01:56:45.000 I don't like our adversaries.
01:56:47.000 I just want America's interest to be put first, and I don't see how regime— We're going to go to these callers and a few quick questions.
01:56:56.000 If Trump is trying to stop war, and we hope that's the case, and then Israel wants to go forward. 0.73
01:57:04.000 Then, is there any way out of a larger conflict?
01:57:07.000 You're saying it's going to continue on, then why is Trump saying today at Alligator Alcatraz that he's got a deal Monday?
01:57:15.000 Have you either one of you heard what that is?
01:57:17.000 Didn't I tell you got a lot of contacts with the World Liberal Party?
01:57:19.000 Well, no, I mean, all that I know is what's in the public record that Trump is trying to get Israel not simply to conclude the war in Iran, but also to declare a ceasefire in Gaza.
01:57:33.000 Now, Israel said right after October 7th, we are not doing this until we get the hostages back and until we have defeated Hamas.
01:57:42.000 So there is unanimity in Israel.
01:57:43.000 By that, I mean the Likud, the Labor Party, across the spectrum, the Israelis believe you attacked us.
01:57:50.000 We have a job to do.
01:57:51.000 But Trump is telling them, no, I'm going to stop you along the way.
01:57:55.000 So right away, I think here you see who's calling the shots.
01:57:58.000 It's not Netanyahu.
01:57:59.000 It's Trump.
01:58:00.000 In fact, the very idea that a small country like Israel, which is, like I say, what, 10 or 12 million people, we are 350 million.
01:58:08.000 We're bigger.
01:58:09.000 We're stronger.
01:58:10.000 We're richer.
01:58:10.000 If somehow the Jews control us, then truly they are the master race.
01:58:15.000 All right.
01:58:16.000 Nick, you got to respond to that.
01:58:17.000 And then I keep saying last question.
01:58:19.000 But, you know, pulling back from all of this, I literally wanted to just have a pro-Israel question, a pro-U.S.
01:58:28.000 question, pro-Iran, whatever.
01:58:31.000 I literally cannot find on the X account at Rilox Jones a even pro-war view because I want to show both sides.
01:58:41.000 And it's the same thing.
01:58:42.000 All the callers that I could see are anti-Israel.
01:58:46.000 So that's a larger question.
01:58:47.000 The polls show it.
01:58:48.000 The whole world's turning against Israel.
01:58:50.000 The Democrats are turning against Israel, who I can't stand, by the way.
01:58:53.000 And they love Islam, which is even crazier. 1.00
01:58:55.000 I got to be mad at Israel, but also not support radical Islam takeover or Orthodox Islam takeover. 0.68
01:59:00.000 So I think it's fair to say maybe you both disagree with me or maybe Danesha's Souza does.
01:59:06.000 There is definitely a hyper accelerated anti-Israel movement.
01:59:12.000 And does Israel realize that? 0.75
01:59:14.000 Even Michael Savage was on my show Friday and he said, look, I'm pro-Israel, but I want Netanyahu to go because he's turning the world against Israel.
01:59:21.000 And now they expel the few Gazans that are left alive and the image of them being marched off into the desert, you know, to Libya or wherever. 0.83
01:59:28.000 I mean, here's a simple question.
01:59:33.000 Do you agree today, Sasuja and the Nick, that Israel is at its most unpopular point since it was formed in 1947?
01:59:42.000 I would say to me, it doesn't even matter.
01:59:47.000 Why?
01:59:47.000 Because I'm not Israel first.
01:59:49.000 I mean, I'm America first.
01:59:50.000 And so Israel's popularity or unpopularity is not at the forefront of my concern.
01:59:56.000 Now, I will say that my experience is that in the Republican Party, and I'm talking about the mainstream of the Republican Party, Israel is very popular.
02:00:06.000 Israel is not, in fact, it's not that the Republican Party has turned against Israel.
02:00:10.000 And this is why actually trust.
02:00:12.000 That's the only place it is popular.
02:00:13.000 I said that.
02:00:14.000 Well, I mean, it's popular among, it's popular by and large, I think, among the majority of practicing Christians in this country.
02:00:20.000 Why?
02:00:21.000 Maybe part of it is for biblical reasons.
02:00:23.000 Maybe it's partly because we have a Judeo-Christian heritage.
02:00:26.000 We have a Western civilization based on Athens and Jerusalem. 0.87
02:00:31.000 And Athens, of course, refers to classical reason.
02:00:33.000 But what is Jerusalem if not the land and the promises of the Bible?
02:00:37.000 So for a lot of Christians, that is important.
02:00:40.000 So yes, I agree the Democrats don't like Israel.
02:00:42.000 I agree that there are powerful forces around the world.
02:00:45.000 They don't like Israel. 0.94
02:00:46.000 But look, one reason for this is because the Muslims outnumber the Jews like 100 to 1.
02:00:52.000 What are they like 2.5 billion Muslims and what, 13 or 14 or maybe 20 million Jews in the world?
02:00:59.000 So is it any surprise that this larger force of Muslims has far more influence worldwide with the UN, with a lot of other countries, Asian countries, and so on?
02:01:09.000 They just outnumber the Jews. 1.00
02:01:11.000 And so that's one of the reasons why Israel is so, quote, unpopular.
02:01:16.000 Nick, comment to that.
02:01:18.000 Yeah, I mean, I would say Israel is unpopular because they killed 100,000 people in Gaza.
02:01:23.000 They destroyed 90% of the buildings, 90% of the roads, the hospitals.
02:01:27.000 They kill people that are trying to get aid supplies.
02:01:29.000 They kill innocent civilians.
02:01:31.000 They rape prisoners.
02:01:33.000 And then when the soldiers that rape the prisoners, this happened last year, get arrested, all the government ministers defend the soldiers and a riot forms outside the prison to defend them.
02:01:43.000 I think that's why people hate Israel right now.
02:01:45.000 And I would say, as far as Christians are concerned, why? 1.00
02:01:48.000 Why do we like Israel? 0.99
02:01:49.000 You have government ministers in Israel that say spitting on Christians is an ancient Jewish tradition and it's fine. 1.00
02:01:57.000 You have Zionist rabbis like the Koops who say that Christians should be killed.
02:02:01.000 They say atheism is preferable to Christianity because Christianity is idolatry.
02:02:05.000 Maimonides, who your buddy Josh Hammer, Josh Hammer, who by the way called all Europeans inherently anti-Semitic in our DNA, he said that Maimonides is the rom bomb.
02:02:16.000 He's our Thomas Aquinas.
02:02:18.000 Maimonides said to pray for the death of Christians every single day.
02:02:21.000 I don't know why Christians love Israel. 1.00
02:02:23.000 I don't know why people think that they're our friend.
02:02:25.000 I regard Jews and Muslims as basically the same insofar as neither of them are friends of Christians. 1.00
02:02:30.000 Neither of them are friends of the West.
02:02:32.000 I think they both have their own motives.
02:02:34.000 They both have terrorist groups.
02:02:35.000 They both oppose Christianity and see us as idolaters.
02:02:38.000 That's the Muslim beef with Christians. 1.00
02:02:40.000 That's the Jewish beef with Christians, our worship of the person of Jesus Christ. 0.96
02:02:44.000 And so I think that, you know, Israel's become very unpopular.
02:02:48.000 Contrary to what you and your family say, Dinesh, you say, well, anti-Semitism is because we like hate God's promise to Israel.
02:02:55.000 No, we don't like the fruits from the poisonous tree.
02:02:59.000 We don't like what Israel has wrought in the Middle East and the world in the past couple of years, in the past 70 years. 1.00
02:03:04.000 And it's just, I mean, it's not even a question they influence us.
02:03:07.000 The APAC money, the Edelsons, Chabad Lubavitch all over the White House, brought in by the son-in-law, Jared Kushner.
02:03:14.000 In the first term, Jared Kushner was put in charge of negotiations over the border, over the Abraham Accords, over so many things.
02:03:20.000 He's a donor to the Lubavitchers, and they ran that White House. 1.00
02:03:24.000 They were all over the place.
02:03:25.000 This should go all night real fast today, actually.
02:03:27.000 I swear to God, we're going to stop going to calls, but just real, two minutes.
02:03:32.000 Just on this issue of influence, here's the thing.
02:03:36.000 I think that, you know, it's Miriam Adelson gave $100 million to Trump for the 24 campaign, a great deal of money.
02:03:46.000 However, Trump is worth something somewhere between $4 and $8 billion.
02:03:51.000 So what that means is that for Trump, this kind of money is trivial.
02:03:57.000 It's kind of like saying, I'm a multi-millionaire and someone's giving me $100.
02:04:01.000 And then along comes Nick Fuente.
02:04:02.000 He says, oh, that guy owns you.
02:04:03.000 We gave you $100, Dinesh.
02:04:04.000 And people actually say this.
02:04:05.000 My son-in-law is a congressman in Dallas.
02:04:07.000 People say, well, APAC gave him $10,000.
02:04:11.000 Well, Brandon Gill spent well over $1 million in his campaign.
02:04:15.000 You think he's going to sort of change his position on Israel because someone gave him $10,000?
02:04:19.000 I mean, this is madness.
02:04:21.000 So similarly, I think there's a lack of perspective here about APAC.
02:04:25.000 You think APAC is more influential than the pharmaceutical companies?
02:04:28.000 You think APAC is more influential than the French company Airbus, which is powerful lobbyist influences and getting contracts all over the world, by the way, not just in America.
02:04:38.000 So there are lots of interests.
02:04:40.000 A lot of our own tech companies are far more loyal to globalist interests than they are to the United States.
02:04:46.000 They may be headquartered in Silicon Valley, but they don't care about America.
02:04:50.000 They care less about America probably than Israel does. 0.89
02:04:53.000 So the point is we can't be naive about all this, and we've got to realize that Trump is big enough.
02:04:59.000 He's enough of a mammoth figure that for these relatively trivial sums by a billionaire standards, he can't be bought.
02:05:07.000 Okay.
02:05:08.000 You both been very gracious.
02:05:09.000 Let's do a few calls and a few comments off X, but I'm telling you, it's all anti-Israel.
02:05:14.000 Should we allow APAD to continue to intervene in American politics?
02:05:18.000 Here, overhead shot.
02:05:19.000 And we have a few weeks ago with Tucker Carlson, we have Senator Cruz saying, oh, no, they don't have any authority.
02:05:28.000 That's what makes people freak out.
02:05:30.000 Just admit it's a powerful lobby.
02:05:32.000 Don't sit there and say, no, they don't really lobby.
02:05:34.000 Danesh, you want to respond to that?
02:05:35.000 Wait, can I take that case?
02:05:37.000 Go ahead.
02:05:37.000 Go ahead.
02:05:38.000 Yeah, sure.
02:05:39.000 Go ahead.
02:05:40.000 So, yeah, I think that, of course, APAC should be registered under FARA.
02:05:44.000 And no, they should not be able to influence our politics.
02:05:46.000 The way that APAC came about is they sprung from the American Zionist Committee, which was a foreign entity.
02:05:52.000 It was foreign money pouring into the United States.
02:05:55.000 JFK said you got to register under FARA because it's foreign money lobbying for a foreign country.
02:06:00.000 And all they did was basically a trick to reorganize how that money is spent.
02:06:05.000 They changed how the money is spent and said, well, we'll take APAC and we'll make that a U.S.-based chapter, and then they can spend the money in the United States.
02:06:12.000 So it is a foreign lobby.
02:06:14.000 And this is basically what about ism to say, well, what about this lobby?
02:06:17.000 What about that lobby?
02:06:18.000 What about, you know, they're not the only one.
02:06:20.000 They are a foreign lobby.
02:06:22.000 And even though they give small sums to some congressmen, they spend big sums to primary congressmen that oppose them.
02:06:28.000 They did this to a number of progressive Democrats last year.
02:06:30.000 They spent millions behind primary candidates against Democrats that didn't vote for foreign aid to Israel.
02:06:37.000 So their influence is felt everywhere.
02:06:38.000 And it's always this little like obfuscation game that's played with them.
02:06:41.000 If you're America first, you can't be in favor of foreign lobbying.
02:06:44.000 All right, let's push the next.
02:06:45.000 Let's move to the next one.
02:06:46.000 Well, let's, yeah, let's push it some more because the one name that you gave us was Miriam Adelson.
02:06:51.000 Now, Miriam Adelson is married to Sheldon Adelson, and Sheldon Adelson made about $20 billion because he's a casino mogul in Las Vegas.
02:07:00.000 He owns the Venetian hotel, for example.
02:07:02.000 So here's a guy who's an American citizen.
02:07:05.000 He's a Jew, but we're not talking about the Israeli government.
02:07:09.000 So are you saying that you want a law that says that Sheldon Adelson, an American citizen, can't spend money on lobbying?
02:07:19.000 And how would you draw, tell us what this law would say?
02:07:22.000 Are you going to single out APAC?
02:07:24.000 Or are you going to say that basically no foreign interest can lobby in the United States, which by the way, I'm in favor of. 0.86
02:07:31.000 I'm not against it.
02:07:32.000 I'm simply against what it appears to me to be a kind of conflation between the foreign interests of a foreign state, Israel, and American Jews who are no different than Irishmen who, by the way, are very involved in Ireland's politics.
02:07:47.000 You have all kinds of societies, German societies, English societies that promote friendly relations with England.
02:07:54.000 As I mentioned, there are corporate interests abroad.
02:07:56.000 There's a Swiss billionaire, Hans Weiss Jordan, I think is the guy's name is.
02:08:01.000 He plows tons of money into the Democrats.
02:08:04.000 George Soros is a massive influence, a lot of money that's made abroad, now being deployed within American politics.
02:08:11.000 So yeah, if you want to have some restrictions on foreign money, I say more power to it. 0.98
02:08:16.000 But weirdly, you seem to be wanting to restrict the one money that's actually coming to benefit MAGA against these left-wing Democrats, as you say.
02:08:25.000 And you've not said one word about foreign money that's going to these left-wing Democrats in the first place.
02:08:31.000 I am against all foreign lobbying.
02:08:33.000 I am against all foreign money.
02:08:35.000 And the problem with this is you talk about Sheldon Adelson.
02:08:38.000 You say, well, he's an American citizen.
02:08:40.000 So what would you do about him?
02:08:42.000 Well, let me ask you about Sheldon Adelson.
02:08:44.000 Yes, American citizen, born and raised in Northeast.
02:08:47.000 Sheldon Adelson, when he died, his body was flown to Israel, where he was buried.
02:08:52.000 And the body was greeted on the tarmac by Benjamin Netanyahu.
02:08:56.000 Sheldon Adelson said he wished he served in the IDF and not the U.S. military.
02:09:00.000 He said, my heart is in Israel.
02:09:02.000 He lobbied the Trump administration to pardon Jonathan Pollard, who is an Israeli spy, stealing our secrets and giving them to Israel. 0.89
02:09:11.000 This was something he lobbied for for 10 years.
02:09:13.000 Like this guy clearly was a foreign agent.
02:09:16.000 Do you see any sort of problem with that?
02:09:18.000 I mean, don't you think that his citizenship is sort of a technicality?
02:09:21.000 Or do you take any issue at all with his clear foreign allegiance to the state of Israel?
02:09:27.000 Look, all I'm saying is that there are numerous examples of Americans homegrown who have for some reason or another fallen in love with some foreign country.
02:09:39.000 I mean, I'll give some examples.
02:09:40.000 There were countless Americans who went to the United States.
02:09:42.000 What about Adrian?
02:09:43.000 Do you have a problem with that?
02:09:45.000 Yes, of course I do.
02:09:46.000 Of course I do.
02:09:47.000 But I'm just saying that there's nothing uniquely Israeli about it.
02:09:50.000 Think of all the Sandinistas. 1.00
02:09:52.000 Think of all the Americans who went down there.
02:09:54.000 Think of the number of Americans who went and fought in the Spanish Civil War.
02:09:58.000 They were obviously putting other countries first.
02:10:01.000 There were many Americans.
02:10:02.000 Look at the Rosenbergs. 0.99
02:10:03.000 They spied against the United States for the Soviet Union, Klaus Fuchs.
02:10:07.000 So, what I'm getting at is there is an American tradition of Americans who, for whatever reason, sometimes ethnicity, sometimes ideology, they start putting another country first.
02:10:17.000 Are you asking me if that's wrong?
02:10:19.000 Yes, it is.
02:10:20.000 And I think when they break the law, they should be punished as the Rosenbergs, of course, were put to death. 0.99
02:10:25.000 Klaus Fuchs was arrested.
02:10:27.000 So we have laws and we should enforce them.
02:10:29.000 A lot of times, a lot of this bad stuff goes on because people in this country, our own people, allow it to happen.
02:10:37.000 How did we get 10 million illegals? 0.96
02:10:39.000 Because the Biden-Harris people went to the border basically and said, wink, wink, wink, come on over.
02:10:46.000 Biden said, when I win, let him in.
02:10:48.000 When Biden said, I win, immediately he searched the borders.
02:10:50.000 I think that's not open for debate.
02:10:52.000 You guys are gracious.
02:10:53.000 Let's hit a few phone calls and we'll end this debate.
02:10:55.000 This is amazing.
02:10:55.000 Thank you, Danesha Souzi.
02:10:57.000 Thank you, Nick Fuentez.
02:10:58.000 We've got loaded phone lines, hundreds of questions.
02:11:01.000 Let's just get to a few of these real fast.
02:11:02.000 So I'm going to go to these callers.
02:11:04.000 Ask your question or make your statement.
02:11:06.000 We're going to go to the next person.
02:11:08.000 Ronin in Texas.
02:11:10.000 You're on the air with our guests during this debate.
02:11:12.000 Go ahead.
02:11:14.000 Yeah, I'll make this brief and hopefully Nick, you go on Rumble after this.
02:11:17.000 But this is a question framed at Dinesh.
02:11:20.000 The entire Middle East hates us because of us acting as a proxy since around 48.
02:11:25.000 We've laid waste the entire region and Israel is always crying out as they strike others as usual. 1.00
02:11:31.000 But my question is, what is your solution to this entire problem that is in America's interest?
02:11:37.000 Because clearly supporting Israel is not in our best interest. 0.86
02:11:41.000 So what would your actual solution be moving forward with this Iran problem that stemmed from us backing Israel?
02:11:48.000 The question is, what is the American interest in controlling the Middle East?
02:11:51.000 Necissism?
02:11:52.000 Yeah.
02:11:53.000 So the premise the entire region hates us can be immediately tested by asking, did the Saudis hate us?
02:12:01.000 No.
02:12:01.000 Did the Emiratis hate us?
02:12:03.000 No.
02:12:04.000 What about United Arab Emirates?
02:12:07.000 No.
02:12:07.000 What about Jordan?
02:12:08.000 No.
02:12:09.000 What about Egypt?
02:12:11.000 No.
02:12:12.000 Basically, the everyone hates us theory has been exploded right here because the majority of people, I just mentioned, probably the majority in the region don't hate us in the first place.
02:12:22.000 So who hates us?
02:12:23.000 Iran hates us. 0.99
02:12:24.000 The jihadis in Syria hate us, granted.
02:12:27.000 And the reason they hate us, I would suggest, has somewhat to do with Israel, but far more.
02:12:32.000 Iran doesn't care about the Palestinians. 0.67
02:12:35.000 Iran cares about the United States. 0.99
02:12:37.000 They use the Palestinians as a pawn. 1.00
02:12:39.000 Now, what's the solution?
02:12:40.000 When Trump first said it, I couldn't even believe it.
02:12:43.000 And it's taken me some weeks or even months to get my head around it.
02:12:46.000 When he said, turn Gaza into a resort, it sounded kind of crazy.
02:12:50.000 But what Trump is really getting at is that many of these places in the Middle East, when they were centers of tourism and trade, they were extremely prosperous.
02:13:00.000 Look at even Lebanon. 1.00
02:13:01.000 Lebanon, Beirut used to be a tourist destination.
02:13:03.000 Why?
02:13:04.000 Because people loved it.
02:13:05.000 It was beautiful, great food, lots of interesting things to see.
02:13:08.000 Then it became a war zone.
02:13:09.000 It went kaput.
02:13:10.000 Trump is basically saying if we can take some of these places, give these people an incentive to live a different kind of life, maybe the jihadism will be melted over time.
02:13:20.000 And what we will have is prosperity and trade and tourism.
02:13:26.000 All right.
02:13:27.000 Not much time left here.
02:13:29.000 Nick, you want to respond to that or the next caller?
02:13:32.000 In principle, I agree.
02:13:34.000 In principle, and you and I, Alex, have talked about this.
02:13:36.000 In principle, I believe that the alternative to war is prosperity.
02:13:41.000 And I think that we should achieve that through diplomacy.
02:13:44.000 But I think that when you start doing regime change in Syria, Libya, and then in Iran and these other countries, it leads to these long-term problems where it becomes basically impossible.
02:13:54.000 So that's why I'm a little bit more reserved when it comes to any kind of U.S. intervention, especially regime change, because I think that, you know, that's what Steve Witkoff on some level, to the extent that we can trust him, when he says make a deal with Iran, it's because he has business interests in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
02:14:10.000 He doesn't want missiles flying over the Persian.
02:14:12.000 Let me ask you both that question.
02:14:13.000 If you were calling in this, this is amazing.
02:14:14.000 I wish you could all live.
02:14:15.000 I'm going to respect you guys.
02:14:16.000 Let you go soon in like 10 minutes.
02:14:19.000 What about Russia?
02:14:20.000 What about China?
02:14:21.000 What about North Korea saying we're thinking about giving nukes to Iran?
02:14:24.000 Pakistan talking about it, Dinesh.
02:14:26.000 And then, Nick, you haven't talked as much in the last 10 minutes.
02:14:30.000 Well, let's do that, Nick, first.
02:14:31.000 Nick, what about the escalation ladder here of these major powers that see it's the last domino to fall?
02:14:37.000 My bigger concern is that.
02:14:39.000 People go, well, you're a wimp, like Rabbi Shmoley. 0.99
02:14:41.000 You're just a wimp.
02:14:42.000 No, I'm not a wimp.
02:14:43.000 I'm a realist.
02:14:44.000 What about Russia?
02:14:45.000 What about China?
02:14:46.000 What about North Korea?
02:14:47.000 Your response to the National Suzuki.
02:14:50.000 Well, there is another frame to look at the bombing of Iran, and let's just analyze it from a bit of a different perspective.
02:14:56.000 It was a major blow to Russia, no question about it. 0.99
02:14:59.000 And I'll tell you why.
02:15:00.000 Russia is attempting to make this comeback.
02:15:03.000 They're trying to become a global or regional, at least, power again.
02:15:07.000 And they've done that by selling their weapons in Syria, building bases in Syria, giving their weapons to Iran, other countries.
02:15:13.000 And Iran had this idea that Russia was their strategic partner and they were going to get missile defense systems and fighter jets from Russia.
02:15:21.000 When Israel attacked Iran, those systems were completely null and void.
02:15:25.000 I mean, they were totally ineffective and Russia would not intervene on their side.
02:15:28.000 Russia basically abandoned them.
02:15:30.000 This is a major blow to Russia's credibility and to any potential client state.
02:15:35.000 They're all going to look at Iran and say, well, what about Iran?
02:15:38.000 How did that go for the Iranians?
02:15:40.000 You know, you were supposed to be their patron and now Israel wiped the floor with them. 0.96
02:15:44.000 So although I think there's more acute ramifications in the Middle East, without a question, this is, I mean, let's just be honest.
02:15:51.000 Russia's point that it's the U.S. is the dog and Israel is the tail. 0.88
02:15:55.000 But I don't think that's why the United States did it.
02:15:57.000 I think that that was a byproduct.
02:15:59.000 And I think that, again, that's what we can say in this narrow timeline right now.
02:16:03.000 I think that we're trapped in regime change in Iran.
02:16:06.000 I think that's going to be extremely negative in the long term.
02:16:09.000 But one of the byproducts, because, you know, like we invaded Iraq.
02:16:12.000 That is what forced Iran to stop weaponizing.
02:16:14.000 We invaded Iraq. 0.90
02:16:16.000 Syria and Libya abandoned their WMD programs.
02:16:19.000 Like sometimes it has byproducts that you can say are positive, but you have to take it all together.
02:16:24.000 So I think that's a good byproduct.
02:16:26.000 Well, I mean, I think it's kind of, it diminishes Trump not to recognize that he's thought of this, right?
02:16:34.000 I mean, if China is more reluctant to invade Taiwan, if Russia is more reluctant to take on a second conflict above and beyond Ukraine, I even saw Putin say something very interesting where he goes, not only do I have my hands full in Ukraine, but he goes, there are 2 million Russian Jews living in Israel.
02:16:54.000 And he says, I got to take that into account.
02:16:56.000 So this was an angle I hadn't really thought of, which is the number of Russians who emigrated to Israel.
02:17:02.000 And apparently Putin has some thought for those guys.
02:17:05.000 So I'm saying that I think Nick thinks, well, we did it because we're the pawns of Israel and we got some good benefits out of it. 0.77
02:17:11.000 I'm pretty sure that Trump had those benefits also firmly in mind when he did what he did.
02:17:16.000 Let's show the world that we are not, this is not the Biden-Harris regime anymore.
02:17:21.000 We're not the world's patsies.
02:17:22.000 We're not going to be sending pallets of cash to you.
02:17:25.000 If you misbehave, we're going to clobber you the way Reagan did, the way Thomas Jefferson did.
02:17:30.000 And that is America first. 0.95
02:17:31.000 All right.
02:17:32.000 Sailor in Florida.
02:17:33.000 You're there with Dinesh D'Souza, Nick Fuentes here, the historic debate.
02:17:36.000 Go ahead.
02:17:37.000 Sailor in Florida.
02:17:38.000 Go ahead.
02:17:40.000 Hello.
02:17:41.000 So I have a question for Mr. Dinesh D'Souza.
02:17:45.000 So you say that, and you didn't explain why Israel has the right to that land. 0.52
02:17:51.000 You said there's many reasons a country might, but you didn't get into that.
02:17:54.000 But my question for you, and you also say Judeo-Christian values, well, Jesus says, you have heard it said, therefore I stay.
02:18:02.000 And Jesus said, I'm going to have this temple that you're seeing here is going to be destroyed.
02:18:08.000 So and then it was.
02:18:09.000 And then they were exiled from the land.
02:18:12.000 So why?
02:18:13.000 How could you as a Christian believe that God intentionally destroyed the temple and had them scattered for 2,000 years?
02:18:23.000 And suddenly now once more they are entitled to this land?
02:18:27.000 They believe that Jesus is burning in hell.
02:18:31.000 So how can you say they are entitled to that land?
02:18:35.000 There is no difference.
02:18:36.000 No Jew nor Greek. 0.88
02:18:37.000 No, like we are all one under Christ and they reject Christ.
02:18:41.000 So why are we fighting for them to have the Holy Land?
02:18:45.000 It should be ours.
02:18:46.000 Jesus lived there.
02:18:48.000 Okay, thank you, Sailor.
02:18:50.000 That's just Susan.
02:18:51.000 Go ahead.
02:18:52.000 Yeah, there are two aspects to all this.
02:18:55.000 One is a sort of theological one and the other is historical.
02:18:58.000 When I mentioned earlier about this is their original or aboriginal or their land, I was actually making an historical point, but let me address the theological one very briefly first.
02:19:11.000 The Bible predicts in numerous places that the Jews, after being scattered to the ends of the earth, will return to their homeland.
02:19:21.000 Now, if you read this in the Bible 100 years ago or 200 years ago, it would have seemed like the most preposterous, implausible, ridiculous thing to say because no other group has ever done this.
02:19:33.000 No other group has been scattered in this way and come back to the same land and speaking the same language and following the same rites and customs and having maintained their tribal identity and worshiping the same God.
02:19:46.000 But the Jews have. 0.98
02:19:47.000 The Bible predicted it and it's come true. 0.90
02:19:50.000 And you have to attach some theological significance to that.
02:19:53.000 Now, with regard to what you were saying about the Jews being there, I'm writing a book currently on biblical archaeology.
02:20:01.000 And this is the archaeology that began in the late 19th century.
02:20:04.000 It's continued through the 20th century, but massive archaeological discoveries in the last 20 years.
02:20:10.000 And it turns out that there's archaeological evidence now for Abraham.
02:20:15.000 There's archaeological evidence for King David's palace.
02:20:18.000 King David, by the way, lived 1,000 years before Christ.
02:20:22.000 There's archaeological evidence.
02:20:24.000 The seals of Isaiah and Jeremiah, the prophets, have been found.
02:20:28.000 So these are not mythical figures.
02:20:30.000 These are historical figures.
02:20:32.000 And what does this prove?
02:20:33.000 That the Jews were there.
02:20:34.000 They were there in 2000 BC, 4,000 years ago.
02:20:38.000 So whose land is it if not theirs?
02:20:41.000 Okay, so let me just say this.
02:20:42.000 The Romans wrote about the Jews there in the histories, and so did the Babylonians and the Egyptians.
02:20:47.000 So I don't, the Greeks, I don't think it's debatable that that went on. 1.00
02:20:50.000 Solomon, King David, all that.
02:20:51.000 Nick, Nick, comment to that.
02:20:54.000 Yeah, I don't disagree with Dinesh about the archaeological record.
02:20:58.000 And I believe I'm a Catholic, so I believe that King David and King Solomon were all real and they live there.
02:21:04.000 But I don't take it as a good omen.
02:21:07.000 When you say there's like a theological significance to the Jews retaining their religion ostensibly and then coming back to the Holy Land, I see it as actually a very dark omen because of course, you know, we talk about Iran's eschatological views about the 12th Imam and the Makdi and all this. 0.94
02:21:22.000 We don't talk about the Jews, which is in order for them to practice their religion, they need to reestablish temple worship.
02:21:29.000 In order to have temple worship, they need another temple.
02:21:32.000 And this is not exactly a fringe idea in Israel.
02:21:35.000 They talk about sacrificing these red heifers, these perfect red heifers.
02:21:39.000 And then ultimately, one of the goals of the religious Zionists is to take out the mosque, the Al-Aqsa mosque, and rebuild the third temple. 0.94
02:21:47.000 And this is sort of terrifying because it undoes what the caller said.
02:21:51.000 It undoes what Christ did, which was to destroy the temple because there's a new sacrifice, which is him, the Lamb of God.
02:21:58.000 There's a new temple.
02:21:59.000 There's a new church, new priests.
02:22:00.000 There's a new law.
02:22:02.000 And then they were sent out.
02:22:03.000 Now that they've returned, it's almost like it's working in reverse.
02:22:06.000 They've returned to the land. 0.98
02:22:08.000 And then, you know, it might point towards maybe they're going to rebuild the temple.
02:22:11.000 And who will inhabit the temple?
02:22:12.000 The Jews say that our religion is dead because Christ is dead, they say.
02:22:16.000 They say their religion is alive and their Messiah is yet to come.
02:22:20.000 Who will inhabit the third temple and sit in the Holy of Holies on the site?
02:22:25.000 It sounds like the Antichrist.
02:22:27.000 So, you know, and this is just sort of my speculation on this, but I mean, I sort of agree in a sense that you can't say it doesn't have theological significance, but I sort of tremble and fear what that represents.
02:22:38.000 I don't see it as a good thing.
02:22:40.000 Okay, Dinesh, comment on that.
02:22:41.000 I'm going to go to Jeremy and Daniel.
02:22:43.000 We're going to shut this debate down because I want to respect both of you.
02:22:45.000 I'd go for 10 hours, but you guys have busy schedules here.
02:22:48.000 We're live at 9.16 Central Time.
02:22:51.000 Dinesh, go ahead.
02:22:53.000 Well, I don't want to go too far down this road, but the Bible is a, it is a document that not only celebrates things, but it's prophetic.
02:23:04.000 And by that, I mean it anticipates events.
02:23:08.000 And this doesn't mean that these events are by themselves good or bad, or the people who involved are good or bad.
02:23:14.000 It just means that this is what's going to happen.
02:23:17.000 And so when the Bible says the Jews will come back, this is not a moral judgment.
02:23:22.000 It is a prediction.
02:23:23.000 And all I'm saying is it has come true.
02:23:26.000 The interesting thing to me about the Bible is even some of the figures of the Old Testament are morally not only ambiguous, but are just downright abominable.
02:23:36.000 Starting with David, by the way, because this is not just about him taking up with Bathsheba, but having Bathsheba's husband deliberately sent to the front where David knew he would be killed.
02:23:46.000 So David is not only an adulterer, he's a murderer, but nevertheless, he is also a chosen instrument of God.
02:23:53.000 And so you have this very interesting duality in understanding the Bible, where on the one hand, you have figures who are dubious in their own right, and we would not admire them in any way.
02:24:04.000 And as Nick says, they're a little scary, but they are nevertheless instruments of God.
02:24:10.000 Nick?
02:24:10.000 Yeah, I agree with that.
02:24:12.000 Actually.
02:24:13.000 All right, amazing.
02:24:13.000 I can go for 10 hours.
02:24:14.000 Two more callers.
02:24:15.000 I swear I'll let you everybody go.
02:24:16.000 This is amazing.
02:24:17.000 We've got to do this again.
02:24:17.000 I'll do more debates.
02:24:19.000 By the way, just brief question, both of you.
02:24:21.000 Because I forget, like three weeks ago, I heard Nick says, hey, will you let me, would you do a debate with Desa?
02:24:27.000 How did this debate happen?
02:24:29.000 How did it start?
02:24:31.000 Well, as far as I know, what it is, is that I saw on social media, it's probably some of Nick's super fans, and they were kept saying, these people in Con Inc.
02:24:40.000 are all wimps. 0.68
02:24:41.000 They're scared to debate Nick and they won't debate him and stuff.
02:24:44.000 And I just replied to a couple of those guys and go, well, I'm not scared to debate him.
02:24:48.000 I'd be happy to do it.
02:24:49.000 And then I just left that.
02:24:51.000 And somehow, kind of the snowball gathered more snow.
02:24:55.000 And to be honest, you know, I got to say, I mean, Nick, you know, I've seen some of your funny routines on social media and I expected a very different kind of debate.
02:25:03.000 I thought you'd be basically talking about how, you know, Indian people smell bad and things like this.
02:25:08.000 I had no idea where this was really going to go.
02:25:11.000 I want to commend you for keeping this very professional, focusing really on the topic that we agreed to.
02:25:19.000 I also want to commend you.
02:25:20.000 I mean, I don't think I've met too many 26-year-olds who could speak with the confidence and kind of background knowledge that you have.
02:25:28.000 So it's been a pleasure for me to engage with you in this debate.
02:25:31.000 And I'm very glad I'm here.
02:25:33.000 And I think that's an illustration before we go to Nick of populists, common sense conservatives.
02:25:38.000 We will have debates because I'm not endorsing everything that I say, everything Nick says, but this is what freedom is about, is a real, this is what colleges used to be.
02:25:47.000 Nick, Fuentes, go ahead.
02:25:49.000 Well, I really appreciate you saying that.
02:25:51.000 And yeah, it started out a little contentious.
02:25:53.000 You know, we said some things on Twitter, but I appreciate you saying that.
02:25:57.000 And, you know, I've been watching you for a long time.
02:26:00.000 I mean, I am younger guy.
02:26:01.000 So I grew up with your movies and your books.
02:26:04.000 I read your books.
02:26:05.000 I watched you on Fox News.
02:26:06.000 And I know we disagree, but I do think you're a brilliant guy.
02:26:09.000 I always have.
02:26:09.000 I think you're good at arguing.
02:26:11.000 And I've argued the subject with a lot of people.
02:26:13.000 And I think you're a pretty skilled debater yourself.
02:26:16.000 So I appreciate it too.
02:26:18.000 You know, you could have taken it a lot of ways.
02:26:19.000 You could have hit me and called me an anti-Semite and, you know, really railed on me.
02:26:22.000 So I also appreciate that, you know, we kept it cordial and we, you know, and there's a little flair and things, but we kept it about the issue.
02:26:28.000 And I had a great time too.
02:26:30.000 I think the audience learned a lot.
02:26:31.000 Good.
02:26:32.000 Two more callers.
02:26:32.000 We're let some of the cruise winners at 6 a.m.
02:26:35.000 So have I, but I'm having fun here, but we got to stop at some point.
02:26:40.000 Who did I say was going to the last two callers?
02:26:42.000 Jeremy and Daniel.
02:26:44.000 Jeremy and George here on the air.
02:26:45.000 Go ahead.
02:26:46.000 A question.
02:26:46.000 Go ahead.
02:26:47.000 Oh, hello.
02:26:48.000 Am I on?
02:26:48.000 Yeah, you're on.
02:26:49.000 Go ahead.
02:26:50.000 Awesome.
02:26:50.000 Go ahead.
02:26:51.000 Okay, so it's a real honor to be on with you guys.
02:26:55.000 Nick, as a young man, you've been a huge inspiration to me.
02:26:58.000 Seriously, you give me like people like me a voice.
02:27:01.000 Danesh, you're a total staple in the movement.
02:27:02.000 Your work's been foundational for years.
02:27:04.000 I think you're amazing.
02:27:05.000 And Alex, man, people call you crazy.
02:27:09.000 You've been right more than wrong, of course.
02:27:11.000 And history just keeps on proving it scraped to be able to speak to all three of you guys.
02:27:16.000 Well, sure, thanks for the comments about us.
02:27:17.000 But you want to talk about boots on the ground, which is a good question.
02:27:20.000 So go ahead.
02:27:21.000 Yeah, absolutely.
02:27:22.000 Real quickly, I just wanted to, and when I got on the line, I mentioned that, but I noticed when Dinesh called Nick a Democrat, I just wanted to point out something to Nick.
02:27:33.000 Nick, when you debate Dinesh, stay sharp on history.
02:27:38.000 Don't let him shift into abstract moralizing.
02:27:40.000 You create a sounding principles while dodging the core issues.
02:27:43.000 Keep them pinned on specific dates, policies, outcomes, and don't let them reframe your position.
02:27:48.000 Listen, listen, listen.
02:27:49.000 I took your call off the question you asked.
02:27:51.000 I'm on how to philosophical about shifting debates.
02:27:53.000 What is your comment?
02:27:56.000 Well, I was just going to tell Nick, in the future, when debating Dinesh, just say, do not redeem the comments.
02:28:02.000 All right, enough, enough.
02:28:03.000 I know it's all big joke.
02:28:04.000 It's all big, you know, whatever.
02:28:06.000 Exactly what we're talking about.
02:28:08.000 You want Nick to hire him as a debate coach?
02:28:10.000 I don't think Nick really needs them, to be honest.
02:28:12.000 Yeah, I don't think so either.
02:28:13.000 Okay, let's give it another serious caller here.
02:28:15.000 Daniel in Alabama.
02:28:17.000 Go ahead, Daniel.
02:28:17.000 Do you have a real question?
02:28:18.000 Go ahead, Daniel.
02:28:19.000 Yeah, thanks for taking my call, Alex.
02:28:21.000 I love how this debate came right on the heels of the Tucker Carlson Ted Cruz debate, where Cruz was defending Israel's war against Iran.
02:28:31.000 So my question is for Dinesh D'Souza.
02:28:34.000 How much of this war attacking Iran, defending Israel, is do you base it upon Christian Zionism and dispensationalism, which is an erroneous view of the scripture?
02:28:47.000 Without getting into the issue of sort of biblical exegesis, my views about politics are, and by that I mean, I see the world as a dangerous place.
02:29:02.000 I think there are lots of bad guys in the world, and it's naive to think that we can make treaties with all of them.
02:29:09.000 What we have to do is realize that occasionally a good thrashing is very necessary to put people in their place and keep them from their nefarious designs.
02:29:20.000 Sometimes we have to ally with smaller powers.
02:29:23.000 We're doing this all over the world, by the way, to check the growing power of China. 1.00
02:29:27.000 The U.S. will make alliances with India, South Korea, Japan.
02:29:31.000 This is the most normal thing in the world to prevent China from getting out of control. 0.88
02:29:36.000 We did it with the Soviet Union. 0.91
02:29:38.000 We allied with all kinds of countries, including a lot of European countries, by the way, to block Soviet power.
02:29:44.000 And similarly, in the Middle East, we've got a night watchman, and it's basically Israel.
02:29:49.000 I don't think we should make a single decision regarding Israel that's not in our interest.
02:29:53.000 I don't think we should give Israel one penny of money that's not in our interest to give them. 0.98
02:29:59.000 If we give them the money, it should be because it benefits us.
02:30:02.000 I want Nick to have one minute comment.
02:30:04.000 We're taking final call from Douglas in New York, and then we're going to shut this debate down.
02:30:08.000 It's been amazing.
02:30:09.000 I want to thank you both for being here.
02:30:10.000 We'll tell people how to find you.
02:30:11.000 Dineshasousa.com, Nick Fuentes on Rumble, Nick J. Fuentes, and more.
02:30:16.000 Nick, comment to that last statement.
02:30:20.000 Well, yeah, I mean, I'll sort of meet Dinesh halfway here if he's willing to say, you know, we shouldn't do anything, spend one cent, do anything that's against our interests and for Israel.
02:30:29.000 You know, I will say for anybody that misunderstands my position, I agree Iran is an adversary. 1.00
02:30:35.000 I'm under no illusions about the fact that our State Department, our Defense Department compiles this sort of information.
02:30:41.000 And look, Russia, China, Iran, they are our adversaries. 0.97
02:30:44.000 They are forming up a bloc or a posse, whatever you want to call it, to challenge U.S. power.
02:30:50.000 Iran does not trust us. 0.99
02:30:51.000 They don't like us.
02:30:52.000 And they do back groups that I don't support their tactics.
02:30:55.000 I don't support terrorism and hostage taking and these types of things.
02:30:58.000 You don't support a theocratic dictatorship?
02:31:01.000 Correct.
02:31:01.000 I don't support.
02:31:02.000 I'm not a Muslim, so I don't support that either. 1.00
02:31:04.000 And I think, to be fair to Dinesh, I think it just comes down to, I think we both love America.
02:31:10.000 We have different experiences.
02:31:12.000 I think we both articulated we want America first.
02:31:14.000 And I think neither of us are ideologically isolationists, actually, or necessarily even total pro-war people.
02:31:20.000 I've seen Dinesh, he was against overthrowing Gaddafi and Assad.
02:31:24.000 It's just a question of in each case, you have to evaluate the facts and determine what the best course of action is.
02:31:29.000 And I think that's what the debate was.
02:31:31.000 So I, you know, I think here.
02:31:33.000 This is a debate.
02:31:34.000 I'm going to thank you both.
02:31:35.000 One last caller.
02:31:36.000 Two plus hours, two hours, ten minutes.
02:31:38.000 This is a, for people that ever saw one on CNN or ABC News, this is a real debate.
02:31:42.000 You just saw it.
02:31:43.000 Last caller.
02:31:44.000 There's 100 more, but we just can't do it.
02:31:46.000 Let's go to Douglas in New York.
02:31:51.000 You say you want to ask both people about Gaza and fighting for freedom.
02:31:56.000 Go ahead with your question or comment, Douglas.
02:31:59.000 Hi, my name is Douglas Sader.
02:32:01.000 I'm a member of the American Communist Party.
02:32:04.000 My question is mostly for Nick.
02:32:06.000 You know, Nick attacked Israel.
02:32:09.000 He's always attacking Israel, but he never defends the people that are actually fighting them, like Hamas and Hezbollah. 0.60
02:32:16.000 Hamas is ultimately waging a political struggle for national sovereignty, just like our founding fathers did in 1776. 0.89
02:32:26.000 If your friends and family were getting bombed by Israel, if you live in a prison colony like Gaza, you'd fight back as any real man would. 0.87
02:32:35.000 My question for Nick is why do you mock the people fighting Israel like Sinoar?
02:32:40.000 Why won't you uphold 1776 and its revolutionary spirit, catboy?
02:32:46.000 I love it.
02:32:47.000 I love it how we don't worship Islam. 1.00
02:32:50.000 Like even someone against Israel in general, I would just characterize, is not good enough for the communists who pick up any revolution to piggyback on.
02:33:00.000 That's a whole other question about the guy that won the mayoral Democrat primary.
02:33:04.000 And just like, I mean, my, as much as I don't like what Israel does, I look at the left and they're wedding to Islam. 0.98
02:33:12.000 Sorry, I'm just, I can't handle it.
02:33:13.000 Nick, go ahead.
02:33:15.000 Did that just final comment on this?
02:33:16.000 Well, there's your proof that I'm not a communist.
02:33:18.000 Okay.
02:33:19.000 There's your proof that I'm not a Democrat.
02:33:21.000 And I would say, you know, with regard to these, and, you know, we shouldn't be glib because it's a serious topic.
02:33:26.000 I think that, look, terrorism and guerrilla tactics, this is asymmetrical warfare.
02:33:31.000 When you're fighting a much larger opponent, you hit soft targets.
02:33:35.000 You engage in these types of campaigns that affect, they engage in terror, that are meant to intimidate and scare the public into withdrawing.
02:33:43.000 And there's a logic to it.
02:33:44.000 It's not to say that it is an evil, but you understand there's a logic to it.
02:33:48.000 And I would say that unlike communists, I'm a Catholic.
02:33:51.000 Christians do not do suicide bombing.
02:33:53.000 We just don't believe in that.
02:33:55.000 We don't do hostage taking.
02:33:56.000 We don't do that.
02:33:57.000 And I would, by the way, condemn the Christian militias in Lebanon who carried out the genocide in that war in 1982. 0.71
02:34:03.000 I just don't believe in those things.
02:34:05.000 Christians endured persecution and people say, well, any group that's oppressed, that's a man is going to fight like Hamas. 0.60
02:34:12.000 That's not true.
02:34:13.000 Christ bore the suffering on the cross and so did the apostles and so did the martyrs.
02:34:17.000 And, you know, that's our religion.
02:34:19.000 So I'm not a communist.
02:34:20.000 I don't believe in this like our theory, you know, rest in power and power to the people.
02:34:25.000 I'm not a communist.
02:34:26.000 Well, that's another question to close this out for both of you.
02:34:29.000 I swear I'll stop.
02:34:30.000 Yeah, let me say just a word about this, if I can, Alex.
02:34:33.000 And it's this, because it's in reference to what Nick said earlier about the fact that Christians are somehow like equidistant from the Jews and from the Muslims.
02:34:44.000 And I think that that is wrong on two separate counts.
02:34:48.000 The first one is that as Christians, our New Testament is not a break or a supersession or an abrogation of the Old Testament.
02:34:59.000 It incorporates the entire Old Testament.
02:35:02.000 We don't do the Jewish rites and customs, but we do do the Ten Commandments.
02:35:06.000 And that comes across.
02:35:06.000 And Jesus said, I have come to fulfill the law, not abolish it.
02:35:10.000 That's right.
02:35:11.000 That's right.
02:35:12.000 The other point about this is that Jews are not into conversion, but Muslims are.
02:35:20.000 Jews, in other words, by and large, are happy to be Jews.
02:35:22.000 They don't really want anyone else to be Jews. 0.99
02:35:24.000 They make it really difficult to become a Jew. 0.95
02:35:27.000 But on the other hand, Muslims are not only so eager to convert that they want to talk to you about it, but they're perfectly willing to hit you over the head. 1.00
02:35:35.000 Well, Islam means submission. 1.00
02:35:37.000 It means submission to them.
02:35:39.000 There you go.
02:35:39.000 That's a key difference between Judaism and Islam, which is that Islam will force you and kill you and will, in fact, kill Muslims who defect from the faith.
02:35:48.000 Look at Salaman Rashdi, for example, who still has fatwas on his life.
02:35:53.000 The Jews don't do that kind of thing.
02:35:55.000 Wow.
02:35:56.000 Final comment and final comment from Dinesh.
02:35:58.000 Incredible debate.
02:35:59.000 I want to thank you both.
02:35:59.000 Nick, Fuentes.
02:36:01.000 Well, just, I mean, that's a whole can of worms, so we don't have to really get into that.
02:36:05.000 But I would just say that it is true that Jews don't try to convert people, but they, I am a supersessionist.
02:36:11.000 I'm Catholic, so I do believe that the New Testament does supersede the Old Testament.
02:36:16.000 And I would say that if you look at the modern Jewish religion, there's no basis in the Bible. 1.00
02:36:21.000 They look at the 613 commandments from the Bible, but they also believe that they received an oral tradition and a mystic tradition on Mount Sinai, that Moses went up and he didn't just get the Ten Commandments, but he got the Talmud, that he got the Kabbalah.
02:36:34.000 And, you know, there's these forgeries in the Middle Ages that say that he got this mystical tradition.
02:36:39.000 And I think that a lot of this stuff completely deviates from, to the extent that modern Judaism has any roots in the Old Testament, it completely deviates from that. 0.55
02:36:47.000 I think that the Jewish Messiah came, his name was Jesus.
02:36:50.000 And the Pharisees that rejected him, that put him up on the cross, well, they are the ancestors of the modern Jews. 0.94
02:36:57.000 And they only developed and further made complex their errors and their ignorance and their hardening their heart away from the true God.
02:37:04.000 So that's just sort of a, that's a huge topic, maybe for another debate, maybe another time.
02:37:10.000 But yeah, I mean, if we're wrapping it up, I just say it was a phenomenal debate.
02:37:13.000 I think everybody had a great time.
02:37:15.000 A lot of great points, a lot of good information, watchable, very civil and calm.
02:37:20.000 You know, it wasn't a screaming match.
02:37:21.000 So I thought it was great.
02:37:23.000 Well, just in closing, I wouldn't call myself a supersessionist, but clearly Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament.
02:37:29.000 It does fulfill it.
02:37:31.000 It's not even like an overriding.
02:37:32.000 It's a continuation of what he said.
02:37:34.000 And the covenant for everybody, not just the Jews.
02:37:37.000 So there you go.
02:37:37.000 Dinesh, final 60 seconds.
02:37:39.000 Dinesh D'Souza, DineshDasouza.com, amazing.
02:37:42.000 And Nick Fuentez, Nick Jay Fuentez, amazing, amazing debate tonight, a real debate.
02:37:45.000 Dinesh Dousa, final comment.
02:37:47.000 Alex, I'll just close out.
02:37:48.000 And this is really a topic for another day, but I think that there's an important distinction between the new covenant and the old.
02:37:56.000 There is a new covenant that God made with the Christians, and that does supersede the old covenant.
02:38:03.000 But the new testament doesn't supersede the old, because quite frankly, if it really did, we wouldn't have an old testament in the Bible.
02:38:11.000 The New Testament, I think a phrase I learned in Christian philosophy many years ago is that the New Testament is in the old concealed, and the Old Testament is in the new revealed.
02:38:23.000 So you see here the intimate relationship between the old and the New Testament.
02:38:28.000 No, I agree.
02:38:29.000 It is a completion.
02:38:30.000 It is a fulfillment.
02:38:31.000 It's one compendium.
02:38:34.000 Exactly.
02:38:34.000 So I don't think one even, I'm just saying the new is the completion.
02:38:37.000 All right.
02:38:38.000 Amazing, incredible interview.
02:38:40.000 This is what the left doesn't want.
02:38:41.000 They're the ones that want to censor.
02:38:42.000 This is totally different and free.
02:38:44.000 Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being with us.
02:38:47.000 Thank you so much.
02:38:48.000 All right.
02:38:48.000 Well, that was a two-hour plus debate.
02:38:51.000 I think we did A minus for me, A plus for our guest, and A minus for what the enemies will say about us.
02:39:00.000 But at the end of the day, the crew did an A plus job, and I really appreciate everybody.
02:39:04.000 Wow.
02:39:05.000 I've been up since 5 a.m., actually, 4.45.
02:39:08.000 But I'll be back tomorrow, 11 a.m.
02:39:10.000 Central.
02:39:11.000 Harrison Smith, 8 a.m. Central American Journal.
02:39:14.000 Owen Troyer, 3 p.m. tomorrow.
02:39:16.000 I want to thank the crew.
02:39:17.000 Some of them like Matt have been here since 6 a.m.
02:39:22.000 And I know this, I am cross-eyed at this point.
02:39:24.000 It was very hard to shut this down.
02:39:27.000 What a great debate.
02:39:28.000 What a great discussion.
02:39:30.000 I should have made the rules up front, but it was their debate they wanted to have.
02:39:33.000 They just offered me to do it.
02:39:34.000 So I would just make it about what's going to happen out of this.
02:39:37.000 I mean, I hope this fight was just hot air.
02:39:39.000 I hope no radicals take action on it from Iran.
02:39:42.000 I hope we get a deal Monday.
02:39:44.000 I just want to get the jobs back, secure the border, stop the pedophile promotion, the devil worship, and just have peace and stop war with Russia. 0.89
02:39:53.000 And at the end of the day, that's really where I stand.
02:39:56.000 So that was a great discussion and debate.
02:40:02.000 And I thought they would mainly go at each other more.
02:40:04.000 I had to interrupt a few times just to interject changes.
02:40:06.000 But compared to mainstream debates, that was a very free, open debate.
02:40:11.000 Please remember, the establishment does not like this show being on the air.
02:40:15.000 The Democrats are still in the Justice Department.
02:40:17.000 Trump hasn't gotten rid of them.
02:40:18.000 They're still trying to shut us down.
02:40:19.000 Your support is so vital at thealestoid.com.
02:40:22.000 That's how the crew came in here to work all these hours.
02:40:25.000 So thank you for all your support.
02:40:26.000 This show belongs to you.
02:40:27.000 Take clips out, share it however you want.
02:40:29.000 It's all free to air.
02:40:31.000 And the live feed at 9.34, we're going to go to a few promos here and restart the whole debate in the last two hours and 30 plus minutes in case you missed any of it right now at RealAlex Jones on X. So I think I've done my job today.
02:40:48.000 I've left it all on the field.
02:40:49.000 Now it's up to you, the viewers and listeners, to take whatever you think was most important from this and share it.
02:40:54.000 But overall, this was a real debate, and I'm very blessed to be here.
02:40:56.000 So thank you so much.
02:40:58.000 The refeed of this all begins now.
02:41:00.000 The ball's in your court.