In this episode of Conspiracy Theories, host Alex Blumberg is joined by his good friend and long time supporter, Nick Fuentez, to discuss the U.S. government trying to take control of our government through any means necessary.
Transcript
Transcripts from "America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. You can also explore and interact with the transcripts here.
00:06:14.000Share that link to defend the First Amendment and America.
00:06:19.000We are the number one hated and attacked media organization in the world by every evil, disgusting, sickening organization on the face of the planet.
00:08:27.000The mugshot, the mugshot, the mugshot.
00:08:29.000And then Trump nails it with a beyond Clint Eastwood, badass American eagle gaze of total defiance that everybody looks at and knows deep down that's the alpha male.
00:08:46.000And then when they shot him, he got even more of that look, except the lips pulled down and the teeth bared and the eyes bugging out.
00:08:54.000Yes, yes, we get to see who's really who at times like this, don't we?
00:09:00.000And now the bad guys are gonna find out who's really who, aren't you?
00:09:05.000Because the veneer of civilization is burning off.
00:09:10.000And all the posers and all the thugs and all the boys who thought they had this country on its knees and cowed are now just beginning to understand that they have awoken the terrible giant.
00:09:54.000Through the annals of time, beneath the clashing swords and roaring cannons, there raged another war, unseen yet all-encompassing.
00:11:18.000Real leadership, the essence of leadership, is showing people how it's done so that they understand it's the right way and getting them to adopt it.
00:11:29.000And being a leader means you go against the tide when the tide is wrong.
00:11:33.000You go against the crowd when the crowd is wrong.
00:11:36.000You go against the establishment when the establishment is degenerate and sick.
00:11:40.000And then by example and by confidence and by will and by strength, then the timid join you because then it costs nothing to be a patriot, quote the great Mark Twain.
00:11:51.000In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man, hated, feared, and scorned.
00:11:56.000But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him because then it cost nothing to be a patriot.
00:12:06.000The patriot is a scarce man, hated, feared, scorned.
00:12:12.000But in time, when his cause succeeds, the timid join him because then it cost nothing to be a patriot.
00:12:26.000And when you commit to something worthy and good, it is not a weight.
00:14:03.000you Well, this is what it's all about.
00:14:07.000Tuesday evening, July 1st, 2025, 7.07 Central Standard Time.
00:14:14.000I am your embattled host, Alex Jones, coming to you from Deep in the Heart of Texas, broadcasting worldwide this evening.
00:14:22.000And we are about to host a two-hour, uncensored, unfiltered, real debate.
00:14:30.000Not where there's a whole bunch of canned questions, not where it's a bunch of corporate shills up there controlling the narrative, but where two very intelligent, at the same time, very different people from their perspective have a real debate.
00:14:46.000But when we get into the next hour, we will take questions.
00:14:50.000We're going to post very soon up on X above the live feet of this, so we can get some of those questions in from X and have your questions.
00:15:00.000I imagine those will already probably be answered on both of their own prerogative.
00:15:07.000So Dinesh D'Souza, I've known him for 20 years, was watching him and saw speeches he gave when he worked for Ronald Reagan as a cabinet official, best-selling author, filmmaker, former political prisoner, a true American success story.
00:15:21.000Dinesh D'Souza.com on X at Dinesh D'Souza, host of the D'Souza podcast.
00:15:56.000He worked on a campaign for Donald Trump in 2016 and hosts a nightly show called America First that is reaching tens of millions of people a day conservatively.
00:16:05.000So both men are very different in different ways, but obviously in general, are obviously both very articulate and very popular.
00:16:14.000And so we're not going to have classic debate standards here, but I want to give each person a five-minute opening statement here tonight.
00:16:23.000And I should also add, I mean, you know, you can see the promos and everything, why you're here.
00:16:29.000We're having a debate about the Iran-Israel war slash crisis, APAC, lobbies, the Mulahs, sleeper cells, the FATAWA, unprecedented issued by the number three Mulah calling for Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu's death and basically death for anybody that supports them.
00:16:49.000They admittedly have big sleeper cells.
00:17:30.000And then after that, you probably won't hear from me for almost 30, 45 minutes.
00:17:34.000I'm going to try to shut up and have a real debate because there's nothing more frustrating than these debates where there's constant eruptions.
00:17:40.000So Dinesh, thanks for accepting this debate.
00:17:44.000And I'm glad it happened, glad it got done.
00:18:58.000When we talk about making America great again, it's important to think about what made America great in the first place.
00:19:07.000Now, one obvious answer to that is that America became great by kind of looking inward and attending to its own problems, going back to the founders.
00:19:16.000But that is not only not entirely true, it's not true at all.
00:19:22.000Right after the American founding, Thomas Jefferson found out that there were these Barbary pirates in the Middle East.
00:21:18.000And that is making America great again.
00:21:21.000So when we're talking about making America great again, it has never meant, and it doesn't mean for Trump, a kind of isolationism.
00:21:31.000I would even deny that it means no new wars.
00:21:33.000And I say that because no president, no president who takes an oath to support the Constitution can make that absolute guarantee.
00:21:41.000There are all kinds of scenarios, and I'm happy to lay out about six of them, in which the United States would be drawn into a war.
00:21:48.000And so the pledge is made as a statement of principle, but Trump is the commander in chief, and it's his decision to make at a given time when the situation is dangerous enough that there should be a war.
00:22:00.000Now, there isn't a war going on in Iran, but I do want to say about the Iranians this.
00:22:06.000They are not a regional power like Iraq.
00:22:09.000This is, I think, one of the key differences.
00:22:11.000A lot of people think Iran is Iraq, you know, and Saddam Hussein is the same as the mullahs and Trump is the same as Bush.
00:22:19.000No, Iran has a global ideology and they always have.
00:22:24.000The reason that they chant death to America, they also chant debt to Israel, but death to America is the main chant and debt to Israel is the secondary chant.
00:22:52.000The Iranian goal is a global caliphate that obviously involves global supervision, Sharia law, bringing it here, infiltrating this country, terror cells.
00:23:03.000And the nuclear weapons are just taking this global ideology and giving it enormous power.
00:23:09.000There's an old saying that says, what do you say to what do you call a dictator who has nuclear weapons?
00:25:04.000The central question concerning the Iran war is what does America first mean?
00:25:10.000What is the United States involvement in Iran or what should it be?
00:25:14.000And how does that conform to the stated goal of putting our country first, making America great again, and pursuing the American strategic interest?
00:25:24.000And without going into the Barbary Wars or Reagan or any of that, we don't need to go back that far.
00:25:30.000I think we need to talk about the current strategic landscape in the Middle East.
00:25:33.000And we need to get some things down first analytically before we proceed.
00:25:38.000And I'm actually going to pick up where Dinesh left off at the end and kind of start with that premise, because that is, I think, the mainstream premise.
00:25:46.000Let's say that's a status quo accepted premise of the U.S. media or the conservative media is that Iran is an apocalyptic regime.
00:29:42.000Not only that, but the whole premise of mutually assured destruction or mad was based upon the idea that you have two completely rational adversaries, and each of them understand that the deployment of nuclear weapons, the one against the other, will meet with catastrophic retaliation.
00:30:02.000Never once did we dream that Khrushchev was like a suicide bomber or Brezhnev or Andropov or Chernenko or any of the Soviet leaders going back to Lenin.
00:31:58.000Are you telling me that the Iranians were really mad, but they decided to go on a 25-year vacation and then decided, okay, now let's work ourselves up into a frenzy 25 years later?
00:32:08.000The reason we got Iran is basically because of Jimmy Carter.
00:32:12.000Jimmy Carter decided that the Shah was a desperate.
00:32:16.000He didn't want to support the secret police.
00:32:18.000He pulled the Persian rug out from the Shah and basically we got Khomeini.
00:32:22.000So this is the nincum poopery of Jimmy Carter.
00:32:25.000He tried to get rid of what he saw as the bad guy and we got the worst guy.
00:32:31.000I didn't respond to that, but we're going to jump in a bunch.
00:32:33.000This is a great debate, but we're kind of doing a history lesson debating history.
00:32:50.000I would come back and, you know, I don't want to turn it into a big history thing about the Soviet Union and communism, but I would say that's simply not true.
00:32:57.000And this is what the Pentagon believed in the late 60s and early 70s, is that the Soviets thought that they could survive a first strike against the United States.
00:33:05.000The idea that mutually assured destruction was always the law of the land.
00:33:08.000There's this revolution in diplomacy because of nukes.
00:34:00.000In 1979, the people are furious because of the secret police, because of the white revolution, because of the reforms that were made under the Shah.
00:34:07.000They overthrew the Shah's government, the Western-backed government, because they saw it as a puppet.
00:34:12.000And the Islamic Revolution enjoyed broad support in Iranian society.
00:34:16.000What took place ever since then is regime change, one regime change operation after another.
00:34:22.000Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, you name it, whether it's the Arab Spring and it's these soft power color revolution coups or ground wars or it's civil wars.
00:35:53.000Right there, you get the heart of the matter.
00:35:55.000These mullahs, and yes, there was a broad-based Iranian revolution, but the mullahs in that power struggle took power.
00:36:01.000And they have ruled dictatorially over Iran now since 1979.
00:36:06.000They've made the Iranian revolution semi-permanent.
00:36:09.000But the key to understanding that revolution going all the way back from when they seized the American hostages to the strike on Beirut 1982 to the fact that Iran has been sponsoring terrorism, not just in the region, they have tentacles in Venezuela.
00:36:29.000They are making an alliance with Russia and China to create a kind of axis of power.
00:36:34.000So to the degree, Nick, that you're saying that this is a global chessboard, I agree.
00:36:39.000And I think that, in a way, puts an interesting question for us, which is that isn't it a fact that there is a jihadi or radical strain of Islam?
00:36:50.000This ultimately is what is driving a lot of these radical Muslims, right?
00:38:50.000You're not trying to throw the debate away here, but very smart to get into America versus Iran up front.
00:38:56.000I was imagining, and I'm not trying to steer this, though I want to spend some time on it, The whole issue of Israel and the Israel lobby and where that sits, because I know that's Nick's bailiwick.
00:39:06.000And, you know, so that's just something I'm throwing out there as well, because that's why a lot of Americans have seen, I'm not saying I love the Islamicists or any of this, but we've seen regime change.
00:39:15.000Now, the former head of Al-Qaeda in charge of Syria.
00:39:17.000We see, you know, Hamas being, you know, Israel helped set it up, you know, as a counterbalance.
00:39:23.000Then we've got, you know, Iran, you know, all of this.
00:39:26.000And so I think a lot of Americans just don't believe the intelligence establishment, even though I wouldn't cry at night if the mullahs fell.
00:39:32.000So, I mean, what about the APAC-Israel issue in all of this, Dinesh, for like a minute?
00:39:38.000Can I respond actually to what he said?
00:39:44.000But I mean, with regard to this, there is just like this.
00:39:47.000And, you know, forgive me if this sounds, I'm trying to be cordial here, but I do believe there is this engine in the United States from the conservative movement that says it is about Islam.
00:40:14.000There is an element of jihadism in the Middle East.
00:40:17.000There are these radical Muslims that they want to return to the faith of the pious ones, the ancient Muslims, the first two or three generations of Muslims.
00:40:44.000We're backing Israel's brutal war on Lebanon in the 80s, where they commit massacres, castrating people, scalping people, you know, brutal atrocities that are well documented that Israel, I mean, their own commission blames Ariel Sharon for this, the defense minister.
00:40:58.000So, you know, they don't attack us on our soil.
00:41:00.000The terrorists that do attack us are Wahhabist.
00:41:40.000And by the way, they were the biggest problem.
00:41:41.000As far as Iran is concerned, it's important to analytically determine their strategic interest because that's how you determine what we have to do about it.
00:41:51.000That's why Iran wants a bomb to deter this, which is a credible fear.
00:41:55.000Now, the United States won't let Iran have the bomb.
00:41:58.000Now, if you want to give Iran the Soviet Union treatment and bankrupt them through maximum pressure and sanctions, that's what we were doing.
00:42:07.000We didn't do regime change in the Soviet Union.
00:42:10.000We allowed them, and we went in there actually.
00:42:12.000George Bush managed it, I think, in a good way.
00:42:14.000We managed a peaceful transition to power after a long period of soft power and smart power that we used against them.
00:42:21.000You're saying we need to go in and invade Iran, or not maybe invade Iran, but force them to have regime change with CIA operations, foreign media, maximum pressure sanctions, backing Israeli operations.
00:42:34.000And I would say that's not in America's interest.
00:42:43.000I think that I agree with you in some sense.
00:42:46.000We don't want a nuclear Iran, but we need to understand why we're on the threshold of one.
00:42:50.000And that has to do with Israel's ambitious and aggressive actions.
00:42:54.000In my opinion, the move is restrain Israel, stop them from attacking Iran, get Iran to come back to the table and try to get them to agree to some kind of framework like the JCPOA.
00:43:05.000And maybe we could talk about the JCPOA because to me, that is the most important precedent.
00:43:32.000The FATOA, Trump saying, I'm going to kill, you know, you're lucky I don't kill you.
00:43:36.000I might kill you, the Iranian leader, which I support Trump and loving, but that was provocative.
00:43:41.000I mean, and also ask you guys where you think this is going and is there a path for peace and then a larger debate, which I figured you guys would get into first about the Israel lobby.
00:44:29.000Is it in our interest for these really bad regimes, and I'll be happy to go through a list and we can agree on what they are, would it be a good idea for these regimes to have change?
00:44:41.000For the bad guys who are running these regimes to go, get away, for the regimes themselves to be toppled, and for something else to take their place?
00:44:49.000So if we look at Iran, for example, I would say, I am willing to take any chance on getting rid of the mullahs, these jihadi mullahs, these people who wish death to us and are building up the means to do it.
00:46:00.000I would be very confident that what comes after, whatever it is, it could be autocracy, it could be democracy, it could be some hybrid, is going to be better than what's there now.
00:46:09.000So I think Nick is so blinded by his hatred of Israel that he's losing sight of America first.
00:46:15.000He's become automatically friendly to the mullah.
00:46:18.000So he's giving them a much more rational account of the Iranian interests than he even gives of American interests.
00:46:24.000I mean, every time he talks about America, he uses the phrase we.
00:46:28.000But let's remember that we've had alternating regimes between Republicans and Democrats.
00:47:31.000The Ayatollah promulgated a fatwa 20 years ago that says that attaining nuclear weapons and using them is against Islamic law.
00:47:39.000And that has been cited over and over again in 2005, in 2015.
00:47:43.000In recent negotiations, they say the supreme leader says it's contrary, and I could give you the quotes, completely to Islamic doctrine to have nuclear weapons.
00:48:31.000When Osni Mubarak was overthrown in Egypt, you got the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamism, Muhammad Morsi.
00:48:36.000When Gaddafi was overthrown, you get warlords, you get civil war.
00:48:39.000When Syria was overthrown, you get ISIS.
00:48:42.000You get this guy al-Julani, who's literally from ISIS and al-Qaeda.
00:48:46.000In Afghanistan, you still have the Taliban.
00:48:48.000If we overthrow Iran, and by the way, here's the other evidence.
00:48:51.000When Israel attacked Iran two weeks ago, they thought that the government would collapse and the people would rise up and they would overthrow the government.
00:49:15.000If anything, if this government goes down, I don't know where you think we're going to get something better.
00:49:20.000We're going to get something more hardcore.
00:49:22.000The reason why it matters to articulate Iran's interests is to say if their worst fear is regime change, which is the credible fear of all leaders, every leader wants to stay in power.
00:49:31.000No leader wants to meet the fate of Gaddafi.
00:49:33.000No leader wants to be deposed and live in exile.
00:49:36.000If their credible fear is regime change and we pursue that in one form or another, and it's a little naive to say they're going to come together and have a new government, CIA and State Department and Israel will be all over that, just like they have in all these other operations.
00:50:10.000I mean, the exact question, Desh, you had a question there?
00:50:13.000Oh, well, I've forgotten what the question was.
00:50:15.000There's a lot being talked about here.
00:50:17.000I'd rather respond to this larger theme here a little bit because, look, I mean, Nick, you're 26, and so it's understandable that your view of history, you keep saying history, a regime change has a bad history.
00:50:29.000And the history you give is like four years old.
00:50:31.000You know, your compass is so narrow that you don't understand that I could give you 40 examples of regime change through history that have all worked out beautifully.
00:52:05.000If you leave it to Netanyahu, you leave it to the Knesset.
00:52:08.000They would like to overthrow the mullahs and they have the power to do it.
00:52:12.000And the fact that they're not doing it shows that, again, to use my old phrase, the great Satan is controlling the little Satan and not the other way around.
00:52:20.000There's another example just from today.
00:52:22.000Trump is basically pressuring Nedan Yahoo to have a 60-day ceasefire in Gaza.
00:52:28.000Now, first of all, Israel has every moral right to level Gaza.
00:52:34.000And what I mean by that is quite honestly, when a country attacks you, when you are invaded, just like if there's a home invasion, some guy comes into my house, rapes my wife, kills my daughter, kills my kids, and then he runs away and I chase after him.
00:52:52.000He jumps out of the car, grabs his own kids and sticks them in front of him.
00:52:57.000And then he goes, don't shoot because women and children are in front of me.
00:53:01.000No, what you've done, you put your children in danger, first by invading my house and second by using them as human shields.
00:53:09.000I am not under any moral strictures based on what you did to me.
00:53:13.000I have every right to attempt to destroy you and the suffering of your women and children is the result of your actions and not mine.
00:53:21.000So my point is, once you had October 7th, and October 7th, by the way, bankrolled by Iran, planned in Iran, Israel has every right, strategic, moral, political, to strike out at Gaza and to strike at Iran.
00:53:36.000And so the United States is the one that's tying their hands.
00:53:39.000And so once again, even with this Gaza treaty, you can see that the man in charge, the numero uno, is not Netanyahu.
00:54:41.000Well, forgive me, but I have to do this.
00:54:44.000You know, you said that I'm a young man and my view of history is so short.
00:54:48.000Well, let's talk about some of your history here.
00:54:52.000You were a big supporter of the war in Iraq.
00:54:53.000And I want to actually read and go back to what you said about it in 2003 and 2007, because I think this is fair.
00:55:00.000You said in 2003 that Saddam's support for terrorism, his attempt to acquire nuclear weapons, makes him an imminent danger to world peace and security.
00:55:11.000Four years later, you said the important point about the wars is that 50 million Afghans and Iraqis are free.
00:55:17.000And for the first time in their history, they can control their own destiny.
00:55:20.000Liberals emphasize the negative and relish the failures of American foreign policy.
00:55:25.000Now, there's a lot of other quotes here, but this speaks to the kind of hubris of the neocons, of the interventionists, of advocates for regime change, which is just like in 2003, there is this alarmism.
00:56:17.000Now, as far as Iran, I don't even want to get into Gaza because that's a little bit, we can later, but I want to talk specifically about Iran.
00:56:24.000In one of your videos, you say, well, unlike Iraq, where we had to rely on government intelligence with Iran, we know about their facilities.
00:58:15.000Not because I said Iraq had nuclear weapons.
00:58:17.000Of course, you remember with George W. Bush, the claim was that they had these so-called weapons of mass destruction.
00:58:23.000Not quite the same as nukes, but the idea was it could be chemical weapons.
00:58:26.000It could be a weapon that could kill a large number of people.
00:58:30.000Now, this information, which was given to us from high levels in the U.S. government, I think was the first case of where we learned that we can't always trust the government.
00:58:41.000And we can't trust the government because these intelligence agencies have their own agenda.
00:58:52.000But unlike a lot of the neocons, I broke with them.
00:58:56.000Most of my former colleagues at AEI won't speak to me.
00:59:00.000I left the neocon camp, which is now basically the never Trump camp.
00:59:05.000And I came into the Trump camp because I think the Trump was based on the idea that, look, we've learned some valuable lessons from the Iraq war.
00:59:12.000And that is this idea of trying to occupy other countries is a great mistake.
00:59:17.000By the way, the United States had every right to blow up the Taliban, to chase them out of power.
00:59:23.000Those were the guys who supplied the monkey bars for 9-11.
00:59:26.000So if you're talking about a direct attack on the United States, yes, it was al-Qaeda, but the Taliban was a hospitable regime that trained them.
00:59:34.000What we should have done is turned to some rival tribes, some war, there are plenty of warlike tribes in Afghanistan and said, listen, we're going to turn it over to you.
00:59:41.000You keep kicking their ass from now on, and we're out of here.
01:02:54.000We'll give you some of the West Bank in exchange for peace.
01:02:56.000We'll give Syria the Golan in exchange for peace was the idea.
01:03:00.000They thought that's what was going to happen.
01:03:02.000And these Lykudniks, the people that have been running Israel basically for 50 years, nearly uninterrupted, they said, we can't keep giving up land in exchange for peace.
01:03:10.000They said, we need to go on the offensive.
01:03:12.000This is in Oded Yanon's plan for the 1980s.
01:03:17.000This is in the Clean Break memo in 1996.
01:03:20.000And in both of these doctrines, and this is consistent throughout, you know, 20, 30 year period, they said we need to go on the offensive and we need to basically destroy all the big states that are supporting Palestine, all the big states that might pose a threat to Israel.
01:03:34.000And that is why they pushed for regime change against Saddam.
01:03:37.000That's why they pushed for destabilization of Syria.
01:03:39.000And ultimately, they saw Iran as sponsoring Hezbollah and the Shiite groups in southern Lebanon, and then eventually Hamas.
01:03:46.000And so Israel has an interest in what they call creating statelets.
01:03:50.000They don't want big, powerful regimes like Nasser's Egypt, like the Assad dynasty in Syria, like Gaddafi and Libya.
01:03:58.000They want small, manageable fiefdoms where they're going to dismember Libya into like three countries, dismember Syria into Druze, Alawite, and Sunni, dismember Iraq into Shiite, Kurdish, and Sunni.
01:04:10.000They want to do the same thing to Iran.
01:04:12.000And that is because, and I agree with you, Israel wants to be safe, but you characterize Israel as small and fledgling and just trying to hold on to their land.
01:04:20.000They're the only nuclear power, the most sophisticated, most powerful military and intelligence operation in the Middle East, as evidenced by this very one-sided conflict.
01:04:29.000And what they want to be safe is regional hegemony.
01:04:32.000In order to be safe from all threats, they want to make it so that there are no threats.
01:04:36.000That's why the road to Israeli safety and their right to exist runs through regime change, destabilization, and civil war.
01:04:43.000And so I'm saying, look, that's probably in their best interest, but it's not in ours.
01:04:49.000We should pursue diplomacy with Iran and try to get them to give up their nuclear program with limitations and restrictions without regime change, which is unpredictable and has negative effects for us.
01:04:59.000Israel wants the regime change, and they want us to pick up the pieces and clean up after them, just as we did in all these other countries.
01:05:06.000And we deal with the terrorism and the hatred, and we deal with the high gas prices and all the rest of it.
01:06:43.000Then you have the Moodlists putting out a very rare fatua against Trump and Netanyahu on Sunday.
01:06:49.000So just in general, looking at that, but I will just say, Israel initiating the latest round and us coming into it a week into it, and then all of that.
01:07:01.000And then I could predict the media was going to say it didn't take out the sites.
01:07:03.000Clearly the sites were highly damaged or obliterated.
01:07:07.000But then did they hide fissile material?
01:07:09.000Then the Moolahs are, we're going to go all the way to Enrichment.
01:08:18.000What are the paths out of this Dinesh's?
01:08:22.000Yeah, the reason I keep anchoring our discussion, not just in history, but kind of in the facts on the ground, is because it's hard to have a debate when the facts are really fuzzy, right?
01:08:32.000So you mentioned, Alex, that Ned and Yahoo struck first.
01:08:35.000But if it is true, if it is true that Iran was a driving force behind October 7th, then Israel did not strike first.
01:08:45.000Second of all, let's remember a lot of times, I mean, if we go back in history, not very far, you know, Hitler attacks Poland and Great Britain, Great Britain declares war on Germany.
01:08:55.000Japan attacks the United States at Pearl Harbor.
01:09:19.000Which are the big, strong powers in the Middle East?
01:09:21.000And the answer is, certainly in the Muslim world, there are three.
01:09:24.000There is Saudi Arabia, there is Egypt, and there is Iran.
01:09:28.000These are the three big boys of the Middle East.
01:09:31.000And they are jostling, by the way, for power, the one against the other.
01:09:34.000Israel has excellent relations with two out of the three.
01:09:38.000Now, the only reason Israel doesn't have excellent relations with Iran is Iran continues to not only plot and scheme, but openly declare and fund military forces, Hezbollah, also Hamas, that are aimed ultimately at eradicating Israel from the map.
01:09:55.000That's the meaning of from the river to the sea.
01:09:59.000So Israel is willing to get along with powerful forces in the region.
01:10:11.000I think it would be on good terms with Iran if Iran wasn't driving the aggression from its side.
01:10:16.000So I completely reject Nick's idea that somehow Iran is fighting a defensive war.
01:10:22.000Nobody wants to invade Iran, least of all Israel.
01:10:26.000Israel would like to have nothing to do with Iran.
01:10:29.000They've got a successful society on their own.
01:10:32.000Now, you're asking about Trump and kind of where all of this is going.
01:10:36.000And I think I want to highlight the simple point that, look, Trump is actually a kind of master of this kind of, well, I'm going to call it mafia diplomacy.
01:10:46.000By that, I mean that he acts like Don Corleone.
01:10:51.000He basically tries to pull everybody into line.
01:10:54.000And sort of this idea, number one, when Trump basically even started talking about the idea of striking the Iranian facilities, there was a massive scream on the part of the, let's call it the Nick Fuentes camp, but there were many others in it.
01:11:19.000So if I'm going to show a little modesty about Iraq, it would be good for Nick to admit that he and so many others were completely wrong about what the effect of Trump strikes were going to be.
01:11:30.000Number two, Israel is a country of 10 million people or 12 million people.
01:11:35.000The United States is 350 million plus.
01:11:38.000Are you seriously telling me that Israel is controlling America?
01:12:30.000If you are against the West, if you're against Israel and the United States, you get overthrown, you get regime changed, you get invaded, civil war, or you're like Egypt and Jordan, where you get bribed and become a Western puppet to Israel.
01:12:42.000And Saudi Arabia wants to follow suit.
01:12:45.000And that's obviously the case also because Netanyahu and other ministers in the Israeli government have said for 30 years they want regime change in Iran.
01:13:41.000But to get into the question of Israel driving U.S. foreign policy, it's pretty clear.
01:13:46.000Trump initiated diplomacy with Iran in April.
01:13:49.000He had Netanyahu at the White House for talks about the tariffs, and he announced that he was going to engage Iran in negotiations over the nuclear program.
01:13:57.000That same day, Netanyahu went on TV and said, the only deal we will accept is if we get to blow up Iran's nuclear program and if they follow the Libya model.
01:14:07.000The Libya model is where Libya gave up their nukes with inspections, and then we regime changed them eight years later.
01:14:14.000And that was obviously a poison pill to blow up the talks.
01:14:16.000They said repeatedly, just last week, the defense minister came out and said, we are pursuing decapitation of the supreme leader.
01:14:24.000And when asked, did you get permission from the United States?
01:14:27.000He said, we don't need permission on such matters.
01:14:29.000And I believe, of course, you absolutely do.
01:14:31.000I wish it was as you're describing, where we are in control of Israel and they're our client.
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01:24:27.000I'm not an isolationist, or I'm not Even necessarily opposed to the United States engaging other countries abroad.
01:24:34.000What I am opposed to is a policy that isn't in our interest.
01:24:36.000And I think that regime change is something that historically in the Middle East never goes our way.
01:24:41.000It leads to chaos, civil war, ethnic cleansing, failed states, worse regimes than we got before.
01:24:47.000I think the U.S. interest in Iran is to prevent them from acquiring a nuclear bomb.
01:24:51.000I don't think they're pursuing one right now.
01:24:54.000I think they have a latent threat to deter regime change from Israel.
01:24:58.000And I think that on the flip side of that, Israel has been pushing for regime change in Iran like they have in virtually every other country for 30 years.
01:25:04.000That's why the America First position, how do we balance these two competing states, which are they both have their religious zealotry.
01:25:12.000They both have their share of terrorism.
01:25:14.000Neither of them are the United States.
01:25:16.000How do we balance those competing forces in the Middle East?
01:25:19.000I think we restrain Israel from pursuing regime change in Iran.
01:25:22.000I think we make a deal with Iran to restrict their nuclear activity.
01:25:26.000And that comes from a deep respect and humility about the nature of regime change, the size of Iran, the undertaking that regime change would be, and with respect to what our own foreign policy is.
01:25:37.000You know, I think that we had a nuclear deal with Iran and it was going well.
01:25:46.000We have engaged Iran in good faith before.
01:25:48.000They've demonstrated by telegraphing strikes and through calibrating them that they're rational, that they can be patient strategically.
01:25:55.000And I think that we should attempt to do that again.
01:25:58.000I think that Trump and Biden both tried to do that over the past 12 years.
01:26:02.000They've been repeatedly sabotaged by Israel.
01:26:04.000Their dream is to drag us into a confrontation where we fight their regime change war for them.
01:26:10.000And I think that's something that serves only the interest of Israeli hegemony and not the interest of American strategic withdrawal and removal from the Middle East so that we could focus on our real rival, which is China.
01:26:20.000So that's kind of my big picture view.
01:26:23.000And it's based on fundamental assumptions about the nature of Iran's regime and what Iran wants.
01:26:27.000And the same is true about Israel, what the nature of the Israeli regime is and what they want.
01:26:31.000And so that's a summary of what I think the America first position is in this conflict.
01:26:44.000Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief as well.
01:26:46.000I've been trying to sort of figure out Nick Fuentes as this debate has been going on.
01:26:52.000And I've come to a kind of startling conclusion.
01:26:55.000I mean this only tentatively because I don't know enough about Nick, but from what I'm hearing, basically Nick Fuentes is a Democrat.
01:27:04.000And what that means is that he can't be America first because he is echoing all the tired, discredited, have faith in the goodwill of our enemies, have faith in treaties.
01:27:18.000This is what Democrats said throughout Reagan, throughout the Cold War.
01:28:53.000Well, China, to some degree, Russia, certainly Iran.
01:28:57.000And so any, I mean, if you read Klauswitz, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, the whole idea is you want to weaken your enemies and strengthen your friends.
01:29:46.000Nick, I'm sure you want to respond to that.
01:29:48.000Yeah, I didn't really expect where you were going with that, but in retrospect, I should have.
01:29:54.000When you said this is tentative and I, you know, I've just met you.
01:29:57.000I thought maybe it was going to be positive, but I should have known it was going to be, he's a Democrat.
01:30:02.000It's just a very strange thing that the moral universe you live in seems to be based on partisanship.
01:30:08.000It's Republicans and Democrats, like the KKK, the Nazis, Iran, like every ideology that's against like America and Israel's interests can be, can be kind of molded into this like Democrat Party narrative.
01:30:21.000The thing is about Democrats and Republicans, I don't think there's a big difference.
01:30:24.000We have the same national security apparatus.
01:30:27.000Obama had the same defense secretary as Bush.
01:30:30.000And we maintain very much a similar foreign policy under Obama that we did under Bush.
01:30:35.000And then again, under Trump, Biden, and then Trump again, I think we have a deep state.
01:30:39.000The Pentagon, CENTCOM, National Security Council, the Directorate of National Intelligence, the IC.
01:30:45.000I mean, all these people are permanent bureaucrats.
01:30:47.000I don't think there's a lot of daylight between Republicans and Democrats.
01:30:50.000I think that's a meaningless distinction.
01:30:52.000I wouldn't say, I don't know what that means to be a Democrat.
01:31:28.000Israel has planned and perpetrated false flag attacks against Americans in the past.
01:31:33.000When 9-11 happened, Bibi Netanyahu said it's a good thing because now we can sympathize with what they go through.
01:31:40.000And they looked at that as a gift because they thought that we would support them against the Palestinians and then we would support them against their other rivals in the region.
01:31:49.000You know, so this idea that we have friends and foes and, you know, the Israel's part of the Avengers and the Iran is part of the bad guys.
01:31:57.000I think this is just juvenile and childish.
01:32:00.000And it's like I'm debating Fox News, this kind of stuff about the debate format, which is fine.
01:32:06.000Dinesh, counter that and then back to Nick response back.
01:32:09.000But I have a few questions for you that I want to go to callers and I want to go to comments on X. But Dinesh, anything back?
01:32:18.000Yeah, the polarization of the world is not the result of some sort of ideological fantasy.
01:32:50.000It's a description of a power struggle that drives international relations.
01:32:55.000And you'd be very naive if you don't see that force is at the bottom of international politics.
01:33:01.000Now, domestically, American politics is divided generally into two camps.
01:33:06.000Now, I realize that Nick wants to say, oh, they're just the same.
01:33:09.000But just think of the stupidity of saying that, because if they're just the same, it would make no difference if Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan won the 1980 election.
01:33:18.000I honestly believe that if Reagan wasn't in power for two terms, the Soviet Union might not have collapsed.
01:33:24.000In a sense, Nick is saying he voted for Trump in 1916, but it didn't really matter.
01:33:28.000It wouldn't have mattered if Hillary was president because Hillary would have been pretty much the same as Trump.
01:33:34.000And similarly, Nick is saying now that he wouldn't mind really if Kamala Harris won the 2024 election, because after all, the country would be pretty much the same because the two parties are a uniparty.
01:33:46.000And as to quote him, these are meaningless distinctions.
01:33:49.000Well, I think the whole idea of America First, of MAGA, of Trump is based on the idea that, look, yes, there are common forces.
01:33:57.000The intelligence agencies have been a malign influence in both parties.
01:34:01.000And there are, of course, there is a kind of drinking at the swamp establishment and Republicans and Democrats are part of that.
01:34:07.000But nevertheless, there are distinctions that really matter.
01:34:12.000This country already, in just a few months, is very different than it would be if Kamala Harris, the border would not be secure.
01:34:19.000We wouldn't be looking at making these tax cuts permanent.
01:34:22.000We wouldn't be looking at 10,000 new border agents.
01:35:00.000And then I got a couple of questions for you guys.
01:35:02.000I don't want to go to questions from the audience.
01:35:05.000Yeah, I mean, as far as all of this is concerned, Trump and Biden and Kamal and all of that, I would say yes.
01:35:11.000I don't think it's even controversial at this point to say that there really is no distinction, especially when it concerns matter of foreign policy.
01:35:18.000I mean, Biden gave Israel $20 billion last year.
01:35:22.000When Israel was in peril, when Israel was fighting this war in Gaza and against the Houthis in Hezbollah, it was Biden last year in April that gave Israel $20 billion, which is a huge military aid package.
01:35:34.000And Biden showed up when Iran retaliated against Israel in April of last year, and then again in October of last year, and even earlier when Israel initiated these provocations earlier in July and in April of 24.
01:35:47.000It was Biden that deployed the carriers to protect Israel and shoot down all the incoming missiles from Iran and from Hezbollah and from the Houthis and actually offensively bombed them, bombed the Houthis, bombed the Shiite militias in Iraq and Syria.
01:36:01.000And for all people like to say, you know, the Democrats are abandoning our friends and empowering our enemies.
01:37:32.000I know you're both pundits and both analysts, and you have your views, and I think you both come from a position of realism and integrity that you believe what you're saying.
01:37:40.000We all see the rose-colored darklies, but we believe what we're saying.
01:37:43.000Sometimes we're a little bit wrong, and me mostly right, maybe.
01:37:46.000But I want you to both do, and you know, basically as a favor to me, do what I do.
01:37:55.000And I know you both do this because Nick said I think Trump very soon will hit Iran when he was running for office the last time, you know, eight, nine months ago, right before he got elected.
01:38:05.000And he thought this would be a big crisis.
01:38:06.000And I know, you know, Dinesh has made a lot of predictions come true.
01:38:09.000I want to ask you both, first Dinesh, then Nick, gut level, I think Trump thought he did the right thing, believed he was shutting this down, putting back the nuclear program.
01:38:56.000I think that the Trump strike on the three nuclear facilities was a brilliant move because it was basically what it was is essentially an overnight job.
01:39:32.000A crippling of Iran's nuclear facilities.
01:39:35.000So look, whether they were at 80%, whether they were getting there, whether they were almost there, whether they were weeks away, whether they were months away, who cares?
01:39:43.000Their program has now suffered a devastating setback.
01:39:47.000And even though initially the media tried to deny it, they've now pretty much come out and admitted it.
01:39:52.000Machiavelli says something very profound.
01:39:54.000People can get revenge for small injuries, but they cannot get revenge for large injuries.
01:40:00.000And what that means is that by and large, when you go poke somebody, they're going to come back and poke you back in the eye.
01:40:06.000On the other hand, if you give such a devastating blow from which they can never recover, they are too preoccupied with their own survival to even worry about you anymore.
01:40:15.000It's going to take a long time for Iran to get back on its feet.
01:40:19.000Now, I think that the mullahs are going to try to survive, to hang in there, to slowly rebuild their power.
01:40:27.000And so this is actually the downside of striking and then leaving, in a sense, sort of snatching partial victory out of the jaws of total victory.
01:40:37.000Because I don't think we're very far away from the mullahs essentially running away.
01:40:41.000There were even reports that some of the top Iranian officials were already starting to leave the country.
01:40:46.000And just before the regime falls, we go, oh, well, we better stop.
01:40:50.000You know, we don't really care about, quote, regime change.
01:40:53.000And so Trump doesn't want to quagmire, Dinesh.
01:40:57.000Who knows who's going to come in the vacuum?
01:41:01.000But the point is, when you have these dangerous situations in the world, you have to make a judgment call about whether what's going to come later is better or worse.
01:41:27.000If the Moodles are so insane and they just put a file out, which goes to that side of the question, on the other side, they did like in 2020 when they attacked the Iraq base and called Trump before and said, we're going to launch 18 missiles in the desert.
01:41:46.000Why did they then telegraph all this and try to de-escalate?
01:41:50.000Because, like I said, to come back to the quote from Machiavelli, when somebody is down on their back and you're standing on top of them with your foot on their chest, they're going to behave themselves wonderfully.
01:42:02.000They're going to be very, see, Iran did not actually want to strike us because they realized, of course, the logic, if they strike us, we're going to strike them 10 times harder.
01:45:11.000They're clearly vulnerable to Israeli intelligence.
01:45:14.000The only deterrent that they can get to prevent further hostilities, you know, now they're talking about pulling out of the NPT and maybe getting a nuclear weapon.
01:45:21.000So as far as I'm concerned, our fate is sealed.
01:45:23.000And Israel drove, they orchestrated this every step of the way.
01:45:28.000They engineered the confrontation in April last year.
01:45:31.000They attacked Iranian generals in Syria.
01:45:33.000They provoked the other confrontation in July.
01:45:36.000They killed the leader of Hamas in Tehran.
01:45:39.000Nick, I want to go to comments and questions now.
01:45:41.000Both of you are making very interesting points.
01:45:46.000Just a really quick, just a quick response, because it seems to me that Nick has been moving in a kind of crab fashion, saying one thing, contradicting it, then saying the opposite, then saying the opposite again.
01:46:10.000And so Iran, in order to counter Israel, needs to have a nuclear weapon on its own.
01:46:15.000Then you said, but even though it's in their interest to build a nuclear weapon, albeit defensively, somehow a treaty is going to convince them not to do it.
01:46:24.000It's kind of like saying it's in my interest to do something, but because you put a piece of paper in front of me, I'm going to go, gee, I'm not going to do that because I'm such a nice guy.
01:46:33.000No, if it's in Iran's interest to build a nuclear weapon, they're going to try to do it openly or covertly, but they're going to try to do it one way or the other, according to your own logic.
01:46:44.000Then you said, we tried to bomb their facility.
01:47:14.000And gee, if the Iranians get really mad, they can now just get together and put that nuclear bomb together.
01:47:20.000Well, obviously, that means if it's in their interest to do it, and they're not that far from doing it now, we were certainly right to bomb them.
01:47:27.000If anything, we should have had a second round of bombing to make sure we finished the job.
01:49:38.000That's why Iran started gradually increasing their stockpile of highly enriched uranium in reaction to cyber attacks, assassinations against their scientists, their generals, attacks against their nuclear plants.
01:49:50.000And then, wait, wait, last thing, last thing, last thing, super important.
01:49:53.000When we bombed Iran, that's their worst nightmare.
01:49:56.000So that's why now they might be contemplating, oh, well, the breakout time is here.
01:50:12.000And the CIA came out months after I said this and said attacking them may accelerate them towards finishing their bomb with nuclear hedging.
01:50:20.000So let me ask Dinesh D'Souza that, and we got to go with these questions and comments.
01:50:52.000If you had a guy that lives down the street whose official doctrine is death to Alex Jones or death to Nick Fuentes, and that guy in his basement is making a bomb that can take out your home, take you out, take out your whole family, you're not going to sit around and go, well, what's the computation going on in their mind?
01:51:16.000If that guy has the intention, which is to say the motive, and he has the ability to deliver this bomb in a catastrophic way, then guess what?
01:51:24.000If I've got some friend in the neighborhood, let's call it Israel, and they go, listen, we're happy to go do the job for you.
01:52:21.000I want to go to comments and callers now.
01:52:23.000I just want to ask you guys one more question.
01:52:28.000People can look at it from an Israeli perspective, American perspective, Iranian perspective, but we've seen this whole chain and we've seen Wesley Clark, you know, 15, 20 years ago saying he was in the Pentagon meeting seven countries of regime change.
01:53:17.000And do you guys agree with me that this is a proxy war or a hybrid war battleground between what's left of the West and the emerging new multipolar world?
01:53:32.000I would just sum it up in a single sentence or two, and that is basically, I trust Trump in the same way that I trusted Reagan.
01:53:40.000I don't think, I think Trump himself, just like the rest of us, was there for Iraq.
01:53:45.000He learned the lessons of Iraq the same as the rest of us.
01:53:48.000The difference is this is a guy who knows how to operate on the global chessboard.
01:53:53.000He's already proven it in his first term.
01:54:23.000It's the party, and I'm afraid it's a party.
01:54:26.000This is why I suggested that Nick might be a Democrat, because a lot of the things that he said tonight are pretty much an echo of Ilhan Omar.
01:54:57.000Yeah, I mean, the Democrat thing is just so crazy.
01:55:00.000I just don't even know how to respond to that.
01:55:02.000I mean, I guess the basis of the debate is I'm trying to talk about the present timeline.
01:55:07.000I'm talking about the details of Iran's program, cause and effect, you know, the mindset of these countries, how they calibrate, how they calculate their strategies.
01:55:16.000And then we get these kind of like fables, you know, from the cave paintings of Lascaux, the Barbary Pirates, you know, Ronald Reagan.
01:55:25.000And it's just like, what am I watching here?
01:55:27.000I feel like we're just in two different universes.
01:55:29.000And, you know, look, I was sympathetic to a lot of those arguments at one time.
01:55:32.000I read your books, Dinesh, and I watched your speeches when I was in high school.
01:55:36.000And I was big into Fox News and all that stuff.
01:55:38.000But I just feel like it's a completely different reality.
01:55:41.000And I would say that the big picture, which we can all see, is that the Israelis, once again, are trying to drive us into another one of their wars, some dimension of U.S. involvement that is really not in our interest.
01:56:47.000I just want America's interest to be put first, and I don't see how regime— We're going to go to these callers and a few quick questions.
01:56:56.000If Trump is trying to stop war, and we hope that's the case, and then Israel wants to go forward.
01:57:04.000Then, is there any way out of a larger conflict?
01:57:07.000You're saying it's going to continue on, then why is Trump saying today at Alligator Alcatraz that he's got a deal Monday?
01:57:15.000Have you either one of you heard what that is?
01:57:17.000Didn't I tell you got a lot of contacts with the World Liberal Party?
01:57:19.000Well, no, I mean, all that I know is what's in the public record that Trump is trying to get Israel not simply to conclude the war in Iran, but also to declare a ceasefire in Gaza.
01:57:33.000Now, Israel said right after October 7th, we are not doing this until we get the hostages back and until we have defeated Hamas.
01:59:14.000Even Michael Savage was on my show Friday and he said, look, I'm pro-Israel, but I want Netanyahu to go because he's turning the world against Israel.
01:59:21.000And now they expel the few Gazans that are left alive and the image of them being marched off into the desert, you know, to Libya or wherever.
01:59:50.000And so Israel's popularity or unpopularity is not at the forefront of my concern.
01:59:56.000Now, I will say that my experience is that in the Republican Party, and I'm talking about the mainstream of the Republican Party, Israel is very popular.
02:00:06.000Israel is not, in fact, it's not that the Republican Party has turned against Israel.
02:00:46.000But look, one reason for this is because the Muslims outnumber the Jews like 100 to 1.
02:00:52.000What are they like 2.5 billion Muslims and what, 13 or 14 or maybe 20 million Jews in the world?
02:00:59.000So is it any surprise that this larger force of Muslims has far more influence worldwide with the UN, with a lot of other countries, Asian countries, and so on?
02:01:33.000And then when the soldiers that rape the prisoners, this happened last year, get arrested, all the government ministers defend the soldiers and a riot forms outside the prison to defend them.
02:01:43.000I think that's why people hate Israel right now.
02:01:45.000And I would say, as far as Christians are concerned, why?
02:01:49.000You have government ministers in Israel that say spitting on Christians is an ancient Jewish tradition and it's fine.
02:01:57.000You have Zionist rabbis like the Koops who say that Christians should be killed.
02:02:01.000They say atheism is preferable to Christianity because Christianity is idolatry.
02:02:05.000Maimonides, who your buddy Josh Hammer, Josh Hammer, who by the way called all Europeans inherently anti-Semitic in our DNA, he said that Maimonides is the rom bomb.
02:04:21.000So similarly, I think there's a lack of perspective here about APAC.
02:04:25.000You think APAC is more influential than the pharmaceutical companies?
02:04:28.000You think APAC is more influential than the French company Airbus, which is powerful lobbyist influences and getting contracts all over the world, by the way, not just in America.
02:05:40.000So, yeah, I think that, of course, APAC should be registered under FARA.
02:05:44.000And no, they should not be able to influence our politics.
02:05:46.000The way that APAC came about is they sprung from the American Zionist Committee, which was a foreign entity.
02:05:52.000It was foreign money pouring into the United States.
02:05:55.000JFK said you got to register under FARA because it's foreign money lobbying for a foreign country.
02:06:00.000And all they did was basically a trick to reorganize how that money is spent.
02:06:05.000They changed how the money is spent and said, well, we'll take APAC and we'll make that a U.S.-based chapter, and then they can spend the money in the United States.
02:07:32.000I'm simply against what it appears to me to be a kind of conflation between the foreign interests of a foreign state, Israel, and American Jews who are no different than Irishmen who, by the way, are very involved in Ireland's politics.
02:07:47.000You have all kinds of societies, German societies, English societies that promote friendly relations with England.
02:07:54.000As I mentioned, there are corporate interests abroad.
02:07:56.000There's a Swiss billionaire, Hans Weiss Jordan, I think is the guy's name is.
02:08:01.000He plows tons of money into the Democrats.
02:08:04.000George Soros is a massive influence, a lot of money that's made abroad, now being deployed within American politics.
02:08:11.000So yeah, if you want to have some restrictions on foreign money, I say more power to it.
02:08:16.000But weirdly, you seem to be wanting to restrict the one money that's actually coming to benefit MAGA against these left-wing Democrats, as you say.
02:08:25.000And you've not said one word about foreign money that's going to these left-wing Democrats in the first place.
02:09:02.000He lobbied the Trump administration to pardon Jonathan Pollard, who is an Israeli spy, stealing our secrets and giving them to Israel.
02:09:11.000This was something he lobbied for for 10 years.
02:09:13.000Like this guy clearly was a foreign agent.
02:09:16.000Do you see any sort of problem with that?
02:09:18.000I mean, don't you think that his citizenship is sort of a technicality?
02:09:21.000Or do you take any issue at all with his clear foreign allegiance to the state of Israel?
02:09:27.000Look, all I'm saying is that there are numerous examples of Americans homegrown who have for some reason or another fallen in love with some foreign country.
02:10:03.000They spied against the United States for the Soviet Union, Klaus Fuchs.
02:10:07.000So, what I'm getting at is there is an American tradition of Americans who, for whatever reason, sometimes ethnicity, sometimes ideology, they start putting another country first.
02:12:12.000Basically, the everyone hates us theory has been exploded right here because the majority of people, I just mentioned, probably the majority in the region don't hate us in the first place.
02:12:40.000When Trump first said it, I couldn't even believe it.
02:12:43.000And it's taken me some weeks or even months to get my head around it.
02:12:46.000When he said, turn Gaza into a resort, it sounded kind of crazy.
02:12:50.000But what Trump is really getting at is that many of these places in the Middle East, when they were centers of tourism and trade, they were extremely prosperous.
02:13:10.000Trump is basically saying if we can take some of these places, give these people an incentive to live a different kind of life, maybe the jihadism will be melted over time.
02:13:20.000And what we will have is prosperity and trade and tourism.
02:13:34.000In principle, and you and I, Alex, have talked about this.
02:13:36.000In principle, I believe that the alternative to war is prosperity.
02:13:41.000And I think that we should achieve that through diplomacy.
02:13:44.000But I think that when you start doing regime change in Syria, Libya, and then in Iran and these other countries, it leads to these long-term problems where it becomes basically impossible.
02:13:54.000So that's why I'm a little bit more reserved when it comes to any kind of U.S. intervention, especially regime change, because I think that, you know, that's what Steve Witkoff on some level, to the extent that we can trust him, when he says make a deal with Iran, it's because he has business interests in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
02:14:10.000He doesn't want missiles flying over the Persian.
02:15:00.000Russia is attempting to make this comeback.
02:15:03.000They're trying to become a global or regional, at least, power again.
02:15:07.000And they've done that by selling their weapons in Syria, building bases in Syria, giving their weapons to Iran, other countries.
02:15:13.000And Iran had this idea that Russia was their strategic partner and they were going to get missile defense systems and fighter jets from Russia.
02:15:21.000When Israel attacked Iran, those systems were completely null and void.
02:15:25.000I mean, they were totally ineffective and Russia would not intervene on their side.
02:16:26.000Well, I mean, I think it's kind of, it diminishes Trump not to recognize that he's thought of this, right?
02:16:34.000I mean, if China is more reluctant to invade Taiwan, if Russia is more reluctant to take on a second conflict above and beyond Ukraine, I even saw Putin say something very interesting where he goes, not only do I have my hands full in Ukraine, but he goes, there are 2 million Russian Jews living in Israel.
02:16:54.000And he says, I got to take that into account.
02:16:56.000So this was an angle I hadn't really thought of, which is the number of Russians who emigrated to Israel.
02:17:02.000And apparently Putin has some thought for those guys.
02:17:05.000So I'm saying that I think Nick thinks, well, we did it because we're the pawns of Israel and we got some good benefits out of it.
02:17:11.000I'm pretty sure that Trump had those benefits also firmly in mind when he did what he did.
02:17:16.000Let's show the world that we are not, this is not the Biden-Harris regime anymore.
02:18:52.000Yeah, there are two aspects to all this.
02:18:55.000One is a sort of theological one and the other is historical.
02:18:58.000When I mentioned earlier about this is their original or aboriginal or their land, I was actually making an historical point, but let me address the theological one very briefly first.
02:19:11.000The Bible predicts in numerous places that the Jews, after being scattered to the ends of the earth, will return to their homeland.
02:19:21.000Now, if you read this in the Bible 100 years ago or 200 years ago, it would have seemed like the most preposterous, implausible, ridiculous thing to say because no other group has ever done this.
02:19:33.000No other group has been scattered in this way and come back to the same land and speaking the same language and following the same rites and customs and having maintained their tribal identity and worshiping the same God.
02:21:07.000When you say there's like a theological significance to the Jews retaining their religion ostensibly and then coming back to the Holy Land, I see it as actually a very dark omen because of course, you know, we talk about Iran's eschatological views about the 12th Imam and the Makdi and all this.
02:21:22.000We don't talk about the Jews, which is in order for them to practice their religion, they need to reestablish temple worship.
02:21:29.000In order to have temple worship, they need another temple.
02:21:32.000And this is not exactly a fringe idea in Israel.
02:21:35.000They talk about sacrificing these red heifers, these perfect red heifers.
02:21:39.000And then ultimately, one of the goals of the religious Zionists is to take out the mosque, the Al-Aqsa mosque, and rebuild the third temple.
02:21:47.000And this is sort of terrifying because it undoes what the caller said.
02:21:51.000It undoes what Christ did, which was to destroy the temple because there's a new sacrifice, which is him, the Lamb of God.
02:22:27.000So, you know, and this is just sort of my speculation on this, but I mean, I sort of agree in a sense that you can't say it doesn't have theological significance, but I sort of tremble and fear what that represents.
02:23:23.000And all I'm saying is it has come true.
02:23:26.000The interesting thing to me about the Bible is even some of the figures of the Old Testament are morally not only ambiguous, but are just downright abominable.
02:23:36.000Starting with David, by the way, because this is not just about him taking up with Bathsheba, but having Bathsheba's husband deliberately sent to the front where David knew he would be killed.
02:23:46.000So David is not only an adulterer, he's a murderer, but nevertheless, he is also a chosen instrument of God.
02:23:53.000And so you have this very interesting duality in understanding the Bible, where on the one hand, you have figures who are dubious in their own right, and we would not admire them in any way.
02:24:04.000And as Nick says, they're a little scary, but they are nevertheless instruments of God.
02:24:31.000Well, as far as I know, what it is, is that I saw on social media, it's probably some of Nick's super fans, and they were kept saying, these people in Con Inc.
02:24:51.000And somehow, kind of the snowball gathered more snow.
02:24:55.000And to be honest, you know, I got to say, I mean, Nick, you know, I've seen some of your funny routines on social media and I expected a very different kind of debate.
02:25:03.000I thought you'd be basically talking about how, you know, Indian people smell bad and things like this.
02:25:08.000I had no idea where this was really going to go.
02:25:11.000I want to commend you for keeping this very professional, focusing really on the topic that we agreed to.
02:25:33.000And I think that's an illustration before we go to Nick of populists, common sense conservatives.
02:25:38.000We will have debates because I'm not endorsing everything that I say, everything Nick says, but this is what freedom is about, is a real, this is what colleges used to be.
02:26:18.000You know, you could have taken it a lot of ways.
02:26:19.000You could have hit me and called me an anti-Semite and, you know, really railed on me.
02:26:22.000So I also appreciate that, you know, we kept it cordial and we, you know, and there's a little flair and things, but we kept it about the issue.
02:27:22.000Real quickly, I just wanted to, and when I got on the line, I mentioned that, but I noticed when Dinesh called Nick a Democrat, I just wanted to point out something to Nick.
02:27:33.000Nick, when you debate Dinesh, stay sharp on history.
02:27:38.000Don't let him shift into abstract moralizing.
02:27:40.000You create a sounding principles while dodging the core issues.
02:27:43.000Keep them pinned on specific dates, policies, outcomes, and don't let them reframe your position.
02:28:34.000How much of this war attacking Iran, defending Israel, is do you base it upon Christian Zionism and dispensationalism, which is an erroneous view of the scripture?
02:28:47.000Without getting into the issue of sort of biblical exegesis, my views about politics are, and by that I mean, I see the world as a dangerous place.
02:29:02.000I think there are lots of bad guys in the world, and it's naive to think that we can make treaties with all of them.
02:29:09.000What we have to do is realize that occasionally a good thrashing is very necessary to put people in their place and keep them from their nefarious designs.
02:29:20.000Sometimes we have to ally with smaller powers.
02:29:23.000We're doing this all over the world, by the way, to check the growing power of China.
02:29:27.000The U.S. will make alliances with India, South Korea, Japan.
02:29:31.000This is the most normal thing in the world to prevent China from getting out of control.
02:30:20.000Well, yeah, I mean, I'll sort of meet Dinesh halfway here if he's willing to say, you know, we shouldn't do anything, spend one cent, do anything that's against our interests and for Israel.
02:30:29.000You know, I will say for anybody that misunderstands my position, I agree Iran is an adversary.
02:30:35.000I'm under no illusions about the fact that our State Department, our Defense Department compiles this sort of information.
02:30:41.000And look, Russia, China, Iran, they are our adversaries.
02:30:44.000They are forming up a bloc or a posse, whatever you want to call it, to challenge U.S. power.
02:32:09.000He's always attacking Israel, but he never defends the people that are actually fighting them, like Hamas and Hezbollah.
02:32:16.000Hamas is ultimately waging a political struggle for national sovereignty, just like our founding fathers did in 1776.
02:32:26.000If your friends and family were getting bombed by Israel, if you live in a prison colony like Gaza, you'd fight back as any real man would.
02:32:35.000My question for Nick is why do you mock the people fighting Israel like Sinoar?
02:32:40.000Why won't you uphold 1776 and its revolutionary spirit, catboy?
02:32:50.000Like even someone against Israel in general, I would just characterize, is not good enough for the communists who pick up any revolution to piggyback on.
02:33:00.000That's a whole other question about the guy that won the mayoral Democrat primary.
02:33:04.000And just like, I mean, my, as much as I don't like what Israel does, I look at the left and they're wedding to Islam.
02:33:19.000There's your proof that I'm not a Democrat.
02:33:21.000And I would say, you know, with regard to these, and, you know, we shouldn't be glib because it's a serious topic.
02:33:26.000I think that, look, terrorism and guerrilla tactics, this is asymmetrical warfare.
02:33:31.000When you're fighting a much larger opponent, you hit soft targets.
02:33:35.000You engage in these types of campaigns that affect, they engage in terror, that are meant to intimidate and scare the public into withdrawing.
02:34:30.000Yeah, let me say just a word about this, if I can, Alex.
02:34:33.000And it's this, because it's in reference to what Nick said earlier about the fact that Christians are somehow like equidistant from the Jews and from the Muslims.
02:34:44.000And I think that that is wrong on two separate counts.
02:34:48.000The first one is that as Christians, our New Testament is not a break or a supersession or an abrogation of the Old Testament.
02:34:59.000It incorporates the entire Old Testament.
02:35:02.000We don't do the Jewish rites and customs, but we do do the Ten Commandments.
02:35:12.000The other point about this is that Jews are not into conversion, but Muslims are.
02:35:20.000Jews, in other words, by and large, are happy to be Jews.
02:35:22.000They don't really want anyone else to be Jews.
02:35:24.000They make it really difficult to become a Jew.
02:35:27.000But on the other hand, Muslims are not only so eager to convert that they want to talk to you about it, but they're perfectly willing to hit you over the head.
02:35:39.000That's a key difference between Judaism and Islam, which is that Islam will force you and kill you and will, in fact, kill Muslims who defect from the faith.
02:35:48.000Look at Salaman Rashdi, for example, who still has fatwas on his life.
02:36:01.000Well, just, I mean, that's a whole can of worms, so we don't have to really get into that.
02:36:05.000But I would just say that it is true that Jews don't try to convert people, but they, I am a supersessionist.
02:36:11.000I'm Catholic, so I do believe that the New Testament does supersede the Old Testament.
02:36:16.000And I would say that if you look at the modern Jewish religion, there's no basis in the Bible.
02:36:21.000They look at the 613 commandments from the Bible, but they also believe that they received an oral tradition and a mystic tradition on Mount Sinai, that Moses went up and he didn't just get the Ten Commandments, but he got the Talmud, that he got the Kabbalah.
02:36:34.000And, you know, there's these forgeries in the Middle Ages that say that he got this mystical tradition.
02:36:39.000And I think that a lot of this stuff completely deviates from, to the extent that modern Judaism has any roots in the Old Testament, it completely deviates from that.
02:36:47.000I think that the Jewish Messiah came, his name was Jesus.
02:36:50.000And the Pharisees that rejected him, that put him up on the cross, well, they are the ancestors of the modern Jews.
02:36:57.000And they only developed and further made complex their errors and their ignorance and their hardening their heart away from the true God.
02:37:04.000So that's just sort of a, that's a huge topic, maybe for another debate, maybe another time.
02:37:10.000But yeah, I mean, if we're wrapping it up, I just say it was a phenomenal debate.
02:37:48.000And this is really a topic for another day, but I think that there's an important distinction between the new covenant and the old.
02:37:56.000There is a new covenant that God made with the Christians, and that does supersede the old covenant.
02:38:03.000But the new testament doesn't supersede the old, because quite frankly, if it really did, we wouldn't have an old testament in the Bible.
02:38:11.000The New Testament, I think a phrase I learned in Christian philosophy many years ago is that the New Testament is in the old concealed, and the Old Testament is in the new revealed.
02:38:23.000So you see here the intimate relationship between the old and the New Testament.
02:39:44.000I just want to get the jobs back, secure the border, stop the pedophile promotion, the devil worship, and just have peace and stop war with Russia.
02:39:53.000And at the end of the day, that's really where I stand.
02:39:56.000So that was a great discussion and debate.
02:40:02.000And I thought they would mainly go at each other more.
02:40:04.000I had to interrupt a few times just to interject changes.
02:40:06.000But compared to mainstream debates, that was a very free, open debate.
02:40:11.000Please remember, the establishment does not like this show being on the air.
02:40:15.000The Democrats are still in the Justice Department.
02:40:31.000And the live feed at 9.34, we're going to go to a few promos here and restart the whole debate in the last two hours and 30 plus minutes in case you missed any of it right now at RealAlex Jones on X. So I think I've done my job today.