00:00:40.000I know you are Jewish and you're a very strong supporter of Israel.
00:00:45.000And we got into a little bit of a debate on Twitter about the merits of America's support for Zionism and more broadly for Israel as a state.
00:00:53.000And I was wondering do you want to go first or would you like me to go first?
00:00:57.000I'll give you the courtesy because you're my guest on this subject.
00:01:01.000Well, Nick, I think you did a pretty good job of laying out at least the slogans or labels behind my position.
00:01:09.000I'm actually unclear about what your general.
00:01:11.000Foreign policy thesis is when it comes to Israel.
00:01:14.000So I think it would make sense for you, especially for my viewers, but for yours as well, to hear you lay out your North Star, if you will, with regard to Israel policy.
00:01:24.000Well, I mean, the title of the show is America First, and so that's what I believe should be the central tenet that should govern our foreign policy, all policies, but I mean, obviously, in this particular case, foreign policy and that with regard to Israel.
00:01:38.000So my position on Israel is that the United States should treat this country.
00:01:42.000Just like any other country, and probably a little bit less than, because of the fact that Israel has an illegal nuclear program, because of the fact that Israel continues to spy on us, they sell our military technology to foreign countries, and of course we're going to get into this, but because of those reasons and our past relationship with Israel, and really our present relationship with Israel, I believe that first we have to cut all foreign aid to Israel, and I think we ought to treat Israel pretty much like a rogue country henceforth, and that's my North Star.
00:02:12.000And how about yourself if you could define your position?
00:02:23.000Obviously, that is the mantra that governs our foreign policy, at least under the Trump administration.
00:02:28.000I've been very happy to see the Trump administration's movement towards the right moral side of this battle and towards Israel and towards Zionism.
00:02:37.000Of course, Donald Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner, being a proud Zionist Jew, his grandkids being Jews.
00:02:45.000He laid this out at the APAC summit during the campaign.
00:02:50.000Now, if you look at U.S. Israel relations from an America First standpoint, our foreign aid to Israel, which averages out at about $3 billion a year, looks like just about the best deal in town.
00:03:04.000So we give $3 billion a year to Israel.
00:03:10.000It goes towards military equipment, military supplies, the salaries of their soldiers in the IDF and IAF, as well as their intelligence capabilities.
00:03:24.000As much as 75% of it, according to most estimates and most generally accepted numbers, are spent right here inside the United States.
00:03:31.000So, if we just forget about the moral arguments of this for a second, and we're going to get into those as well, but if we look at this from a money standpoint, the money that goes from the United States' coffers to Israel is essentially a subsidy to United States jobs, to the economy, to our own GDP.
00:03:50.000So, sure, it might get cycled through Israel, and critics like you would probably call it.
00:03:54.000The fortification of the evil military industrial complex.
00:03:58.000But at the end of the day, it's a high paying job for an engineer that works at Boeing.
00:04:02.000It's a high paying job for an engineer that works at Raytheon.
00:04:06.000And at the end of the day, you cut that aid, those jobs are going away.
00:04:09.000So I think if you look at this from an America first standpoint, the United States' policy towards Israel that's been longstanding makes a whole lot of sense.
00:04:17.000And Trump's basic exaggeration of that policy and even moving more towards Israel and away from the Arab nations in terms of the ideological debate in the Middle East makes a ton of sense.
00:04:29.000Okay, well, let's start with the subsidy argument.
00:04:34.000And this is one that I hear a lot from people that defend foreign aid to Israel, which is that a great deal of the foreign aid that's given to Israel, of course, is spent on American, the American Defense Department is spent on American defense contractors because there is, there obviously are earmarks in the foreign aid that we give them that they must spend a certain percentage on our military industrial complex, as you pointed out.
00:04:58.000Now, I would ask you, though, If we give $3.8 billion a year to Israel and 90% of that goes towards military and 75% of that, 90%, goes towards our defense industry, don't you think if the objective of foreign aid or this $3.8 billion was to subsidize the Defense Department or the defense industry, couldn't we just give 100% of that money to the defense industry?
00:05:23.000I would be more than happy to stop giving Israel $3.8 billion a year so that 100% could go to the defense industry.
00:06:44.000For instance, if all of the money were going to China, then it would probably be a bad deal.
00:06:50.000Well, let's focus on this question we're giving money to Israel, and you say that the way that we use foreign aid, it's a nice bonus that it subsidizes our defense industry.
00:07:00.000We could just give it to the defense industry, but that's just a nice side part of it.
00:07:04.000But you say that foreign aid in general to Pakistan or to Israel or to any country.
00:07:11.000Is good because it allows us to exercise our will over other countries.
00:07:15.000We get to purchase influence in other countries through the foreign aid.
00:07:18.000Now, I would ask you if Israel receives $3.8 billion per year from the United States, they've been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid since 1978.
00:07:58.000So now $3.8 billion a year in foreign aid to Israel, and you say, and they are the largest recipient of foreign aid since 1978, and you say that this buys us influence with Israel.
00:08:07.000Now, I would ask you if we're giving them all this money, and in exchange, they're conducting the third most aggressive spying operation on American soil in the world out of all other countries, only behind Russia and China.
00:08:20.000In the meanwhile, they're stealing our uranium, they're stealing our nuclear weapons technology, they're selling our military technology to China.
00:08:28.000Every U.S. president since 1967 has opposed the construction of illegal settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and they do it anyway.
00:08:36.000I would ask you, what exactly is the influence that the United States lords over Israel?
00:08:41.000It seems more to me like Israel lords influence over us and not the other way around.
00:08:46.000It seems like the tail's wagging the dog.
00:08:48.000But let me ask you if you can explain how us giving them $3.8 billion in exchange, they spy on us, they steal our technology, they sell our technology to others, they influence our politicians, and so on and so forth.
00:09:00.000How that's allowing us to exercise our will over them, and what in what case has that happened?
00:09:05.000Well, I don't know what nuclear technology they've stolen.
00:09:40.000And it's common among Israel critics like yourself to say that the tail's wagging the dog, to say that Israel, a country with a GDP of $300 billion, is somehow controlling the United States, who has a GDP of $18 trillion.
00:09:54.000Any economist, anybody with half a brain when it comes to foreign policy, would point that kind of idea out as entirely.
00:10:06.000You have lobbyists that represent Israel that certainly have some sway on Capitol Hill and certainly have some sway in the country, as they should, as other countries do as well.
00:10:14.000But this idea that Israel controls us, that there's some kind of Zionist conspiracy running United States foreign policy, is entirely insane.
00:10:23.000I think you're strawmaning me a little bit.
00:11:08.000Well, it's funny to me because I asked you a very simple question, which was you said that, you know, in exchange for the foreign aid money, and we can get into the particulars of which numbers are accurate and how much is actually given, but we give a great deal of money in foreign aid to Israel, and you say that that is good because we get to exert influence over another country, and that is good.
00:12:14.000It's a very nice port in the Middle East, in the north of Israel, close to Lebanon, which is home to Hezbollah and many Islamofascist groups, a lot of Iranian influence in the region.
00:12:25.000The port of Haifa is a port where U.S. ships can dock.
00:12:30.000The reason that we can dock there is because we provide foreign aid to Israel.
00:12:33.000That is a strategic advantage among many that we have in Israel.
00:12:37.000When a U.S. plane is low on fuel, where can they dependently land, reliably land in the Middle East?
00:12:45.000Israel, of course, usually in the south and the air bases in the Negev desert.
00:12:50.000There are many, many strategic assets that we get in exchange for the very small sum when you look at the overall spending that takes place in this country.
00:13:03.000In fact, the multiple that we make on our investment in Israel is probably in the orders of magnitude.
00:13:10.000So you say that because we give foreign aid to Israel, they allow us to use their ports, their facilities, but Germany allows us to use their ports and facilities and bases and everything else.
00:13:23.000I mean, all kinds of countries around the world, and no countries get $3.8 billion per year.
00:15:08.000Well, so on the foreign aid question, you're saying that.
00:15:11.000I'm still not buying this proposition that this is buying influence for Israel.
00:15:15.000Maybe they allow us to use our ports, which I think is dubious.
00:15:17.000I think they would still allow us to use our ports and our bases without foreign aid.
00:15:21.000I think if they were truly a special friend, it was a special alliance.
00:15:25.000I think they would do that because we're protecting them, because we have sort of a defense alliance, not because we're giving them money for it.
00:15:34.000If you have every president since 1967 say to Israel no illegal settlements, and they continue to expand them, if we have every president since 1967 that has to keep Israel's illegal nuclear program under wraps.
00:15:48.000And Israel is doing all kinds of things against our interests.
00:15:52.000I mean, how is that buying us influence if they're spying on American soil more aggressively than every other country in the world besides Russia and China, our major geopolitical adversaries or rivals?
00:16:05.000I mean, how can you seriously tell me that that is buying any kind of influence if the only things that we tell them they go against?
00:16:11.000And they're pretty much outright hostile to us most of the time.
00:16:14.000They go against our policy in terms of a two state solution, right?
00:16:21.000Israel has continuously been open to a two state solution.
00:16:25.000On six separate occasions, they've come to the table and been open to a two state solution.
00:16:30.000And every single time, from 1937 to just this year, in fact, just today, Mahmoud Abbas said that he hopes that President Trump's house burns to the ground.
00:16:39.000Every single time, the Palestinians have rejected peace.
00:16:43.000The U.S. has rallied for a two state solution, just as the United Nations did before we did, and just as the British did with the Peel Commission before the United Nations existed.
00:16:52.000And every single time, the Israelis have been open to it, and every single time, The Palestinians have killed the deal.
00:17:39.000And by the way, nobody had any issue with occupation of quote unquote Palestinian territories when it was the Egyptians and the Jordanians ruling them.
00:17:47.000And by the way, Palestinians enjoy many more civil rights under Israeli rule than they ever enjoyed under Jordanian and Egyptian rule.
00:17:55.000This issue of singling out Israel, let's just get down to meet and be.
00:18:12.000You know, nobody has a problem with the Jordanians and the Gazans, or the Jordanians and the Egyptians occupying quote unquote Palestinian territory, building settlements in Palestinian territory.
00:18:24.000But all of a sudden, when it's Israel, after, of course, the war of conquest is lost against the Jewish people, everybody has a problem with it.
00:19:08.000If Israel was doing what it was doing and conducting its own affairs, if they weren't doing it while taking with both hands.
00:19:13.000But the fact of the matter is that since 1967, okay, well, you can say that, but since 1967, every U.S. president, Republican and Democrat, has opposed the construction of illegal settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
00:19:29.000And you still haven't addressed the question of the fact that they conduct the most aggressive spying operation on our soil out of any other country except for our two adversaries.
00:20:46.000You're okay with it happening, but you're not okay with it happening in the presence of $3 billion, as if that has some market effect on the entire situation.
00:20:56.000When you look at it, Like I said, Israel has a GDP north of $300 billion.
00:21:39.000I'm going to talk about real meat and potatoes, fundamental foreign policy.
00:21:42.000What's the meat and potatoes, my friend?
00:21:44.000Tell me what strategic benefit Israel gives to us, and I'll rebut it.
00:21:47.000Israel is the only country in the Middle East that consistently sides with us in conflicts, that consistently votes with us, that provides us with military bases, that provides us with deep water ports.
00:21:58.000The benefit that we receive from Israel.
00:22:00.000We would have to pay a country like Panama to receive billions more dollars.
00:22:08.000Under your kind of bizarre isolationist view of policy, we should go and fight a war of conquest with Panama and take back the Panama Canal.
00:22:22.000Well, here, I mean, if you're saying that Israel has sided with us in major conflicts, this is something we can debate.
00:22:27.000If you're going to throw around epithets like you're an isolationist and you're an anti Semite, I mean, I can't really argue those because that's not really substantive.
00:22:34.000But if you're going to say that Israel, the benefit that we accrue from giving them aid is that strategically they help us in conflicts, strategically their ports help us, I would refer you to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, two of the foremost thinkers on foreign policy.
00:22:49.000And they cite this in the Israel lobby, where they say that the Eastern Mediterranean region, where Israel is situated, is simply not strategically important.
00:22:58.000According to a former Pentagon official, this is from a book called Send Guns and Money.
00:23:03.000Quote, when we were drafting contingency plans for the Middle East in the 1980s, we found that the Israelis were of little value to us in 95% of cases.
00:23:12.000Kissinger wrote, quote, Israeli strength does not prevent the spread of communism in the Arab world.
00:23:17.000And this was obviously specifically with regards to the 1980s.
00:23:20.000The fact of the matter is that the Eastern Mediterranean is just not a strategically important region.
00:23:25.000I mean, they cannot project power in the Persian Gulf, they cannot project power in the Arabian Peninsula.
00:23:31.000So the strategic benefit that a lot of Zionists talk about.
00:23:37.000I would challenge anybody to look at a map of Israel and tell us how Israel would be strategically important in a conflict in, say, Iran or in Pakistan or in the Persian Gulf.
00:23:46.000I mean, they simply wouldn't because of geography.
00:24:02.000But since we're going to cite anecdotal evidence, I would cite something written by Major General George Keegan Jr., who said between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in U.S. military grants.
00:24:15.000During the same period, Israel provided the U.S. with $50 to $80 billion.
00:24:19.000And military intelligence, research, development savings, and updates on Soviet weapon systems captured and transferred to the U.S.
00:24:25.000So, forget about everything else, that amount of money produced a 6 to 7x return on capital alone.
00:24:33.000For that reason alone, it was a good buy.
00:24:36.000I mean, this is a money question, right?
00:24:42.000The U.S. spends trillions of dollars a year in different places around the world.
00:24:45.000And the idea that Israel should be singled out for, like you said, being a rogue nation.
00:24:51.000When you have countries like Iran, countries like North Korea, countries like Pakistan, countries like Iraq, countries like Afghanistan that supply the world with heroin, it's just an insane notion.
00:25:01.000Well, on the subject of the intelligence, it's funny you bring that up.
00:25:04.000I don't think anybody denies that they give us intelligence.
00:25:07.000I just think it's bad intelligence and it's not really productive.
00:25:11.000Here's a quote from a former CIA official who said Israeli intelligence, training, and technology was useful and appreciated, but never essential to the development of American military power or to its ultimate triumph over the Soviet Union.
00:25:24.000He goes on, I saw this political intelligence and it was lousy, laughably bad, gossip stuff mostly.
00:25:29.000Israel provides the United States with faulty or misleading intelligence on several occasions in order to encourage the U.S. to take actions that Israel wanted.
00:25:38.000So, I mean, you could say that Israel gives us intelligence.
00:25:41.000I don't think I'd necessarily agree with you or disagree with you, rather.
00:25:44.000But it's bad intelligence, it's misleading intelligence, it's self serving.
00:25:56.000I mean, whether or not it has value in the sense that it's worth money, if it's, in the words of the CIA, laughably bad, not essential, gossip stuff.
00:26:07.000I think that Assad has a very good reputation.
00:26:09.000Well, I mean, can you give me one concrete example of when Israeli intelligence has helped us?
00:26:14.000I mean, I know the stuff about the Soviet Union weapons captures during the 67 war, but I mean, that stuff was really not consequential in the grand scheme of things.
00:26:22.000Can you give me one piece of intelligence?
00:26:24.000Well, I think it's very consequential to know.
00:26:27.000For instance, how a MiG fighter jet works or how a Russian tank works when the world is worried about going to war with the Soviet Union.
00:27:00.000There's one of two possibilities here that we're narrowing it down to.
00:27:03.000Either this is a grand inside deal to purchase intelligence that's no good, or it's a bunch of smart people in a bunch of smart places buying this intelligence because it's worth something.
00:27:16.000So either the entire CIA is full of evil goons that just want to furnish Israel with money, which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense because they don't really put skin in the game, or it's good stuff.
00:27:27.000Well, I mean, in their own words, they said it was laughably bad.
00:27:30.000And I think a good reason you said that there's no reason.
00:27:33.000You said there's no reason why they would funnel money to Israel, but I think I'd refer you to AIPAC, which two thirds of congressmen attend every year for lobbying by the Israelis.
00:27:48.000I would remind people to donate tonight if they have a chance.
00:27:51.000Okay, but I mean, you understand that two thirds of congressmen attend this conference every year.
00:27:56.000A lot of campaigns are make or break based on APAC money.
00:27:59.000And you say you can't think of a reason why the CIA would funnel money to Israel for intelligence they don't need in their own words?
00:28:05.000Well, I mean, I think it's kind of looking at you right in the face when you have the number one lobbying organization in America is for a foreign nation, is for APAC.
00:28:14.000I mean, don't you think that plays a part?
00:28:16.000Probably not, but I think anybody else could see if they're not prejudiced.
00:28:54.000And that's why they're rogue countries, because of what they say they intend to do with their nuclear programs.
00:29:00.000So if North Korea and Iran didn't say that about the United States, you'd be okay with Kim Jong un having a nuclear weapon, a nuclear arsenal?
00:29:08.000If North Korea were a rational country, I think that's a decision for more qualified policymakers to make than myself, but I think that that would be something that's open.
00:29:16.000I mean, France has nuclear weapons, Pakistan has nuclear weapons, Pakistan is far from a friendly actor in the Middle East with their funding of the Taliban and the Haqqani network, and yet they have nuclear weapons.
00:29:28.000Well, you know, Israel is supportive of ISIS and they have nuclear weapons.
00:29:37.000There's plenty, listen, there's plenty of Russian propaganda reports from RT that claim that Israel and the United States are the founders of ISIS and started ISIS and fund ISIS on a daily basis.
00:29:47.000These are widely regarded as misinformation, and there's no substantiated credible information from non Russian sources, basically.
00:30:08.000I don't know what context you're referring to.
00:30:10.000Well, the defense minister of Israel said that if Syria were to collapse, he would rather have ISIS in control of the country than a proxy of Iran.
00:30:18.000Israel's military intelligence chief said in June of 2016 that Israel does not want to see ISIS defeated in Syria.
00:30:36.000And also, you have the Iranian backed Shia groups.
00:30:40.000Obviously, Iran being the number one geopolitical threat to Israel, it makes all the sense in the world for Israel to root for the side that is opposed to Iran.
00:30:52.000But it just so happens that the side that Israel takes is actually the side that harms the United States, that has conducted terrorist attacks on our soil.
00:31:00.000So I don't dispute that it's in Israel's interest to back ISIS.
00:31:03.000And maybe there's nothing wrong with that on the grounds of real politique or, you know, ration d'etat, but.
00:31:08.000The assertion that Israel backs ISIS either.
00:31:10.000Well, it's the defense minister and their military intelligence chief.
00:31:13.000No, he said he'd rather have ISIS in charge of Syria than an Iranian.
00:31:17.000I mean, they said they don't want to see ISIS defeated.
00:31:20.000Is that not a tacit endorsement of ISIS?
00:31:59.000It's funny to me how, because you're prejudiced in favor of Israel, you have to jump through hoops and pretend like people didn't say things and intelligence doesn't exist.
00:32:07.000I mean, this is from the Israeli military, from the Israeli defense ministry, that they say that they prefer ISIS.
00:32:13.000And Spencer says he would rather have a less bad actor in control of a particular area.
00:32:21.000I just don't know how that specifies that the country is in support of the less bad actor.
00:32:24.000Well, here's why I bring that up because if they're saying that one actor is less bad, that's in diametric opposition to the United States foreign policy, which is under the Trump administration, which is that we take out ISIS first, that we would take out ISIS first before Iran, that we want ISIS eliminated and we want Assad in control of Syria, or we want the government in Damascus in control of Syria, but not ISIS.
00:32:47.000So that's in opposition to American policy.
00:32:52.000Israel's throw has increased in the region and more broadly because the United States has backed it with more moral, material, and other support.
00:32:59.000In fact, Israel just named their train station near the Western Wall the Trump train station.
00:34:52.000I am drawing a contrast between you, who said that Pakistan has nuclear weapons and they give money to terrorists and they support the Taliban and they support the Haqqani network.
00:35:02.000And I said, well, it's kind of interesting.
00:35:40.000The policy of Israel in Syria is to prevent a stable government in Damascus and to retain control of the Golan Heights.
00:35:48.000The policy of the United States in Syria is to stabilize the region, is to shore up whatever government exists in Damascus so that we can eradicate ISIS.
00:35:57.000The Golan Heights don't belong to Syria.
00:36:02.000Did they not belong to Syria because there's oil there?
00:36:05.000I was just in the Golan Heights very recently, and I can promise you one thing that is not Syria.
00:36:08.000The border is below the Golan Heights.
00:36:11.000There's a fence, it's very clearly marked.
00:36:13.000On one side, you have the First World.
00:36:14.000On one side, you have the fourth world.
00:36:25.000It has everything to do with a lot of things.
00:36:27.000I mean, look, the Golan Heights are a very prominent strategic advantage because they're high and they've got a big, high plateau that overlooks a lower area.
00:36:36.000There's tons of reasons that you would want the Golan Heights.
00:36:38.000I'm not saying the Golan Heights were bad.
00:36:40.000But the point then is that Israel's objective in Syria has nothing to do with stability, it has nothing to do with.
00:36:46.000With realigning the Middle East, it has to do with securing land that they seized and in addition to destabilize the government of Damascus.
00:37:03.000Those are most of the people that live in the Golan Heights.
00:37:05.000Secure it politically in the sense that many people recognize that or don't recognize that as legitimate.
00:37:09.000I mean, there were calls throughout the past year saying that, well, it's basically time for the international community to recognize that the Golan Heights belongs to Israel.
00:37:17.000So when I said secure, I understand that.
00:37:19.000The Golan Heights is securely under the control of Israel, but in terms of the legitimacy of it, they were attempting to secure with all the chaos in Syria.
00:37:29.000I don't think there's going to be any securing the Golan Heights from a political standpoint.
00:37:32.000I mean, look, there's just more Arab nations than there are Israels, and they're going to vote in favor of naming the Golan Heights Arab territory any way you slice the pie.
00:37:42.000So I don't really think politically the Golan Heights are up for grab for Jews, and I don't think that they're up for Arabs from a literal whose boots are on the ground standpoint.
00:39:30.000You say that Israel has no nuclear program, but the former speaker of the Knesset, Abraham Berg, said that Israel has both chemical and nuclear weapons.
00:39:38.000So, do you know something that the former speaker of the Knesset doesn't?
00:39:42.000All I'm saying is that there's no officially recognized nuclear program in Israel.
00:39:46.000I don't disagree with that, but there's abundant evidence that they do.
00:39:51.000There's many people that have said a lot of different things.
00:39:53.000I can point to 100 people that say it doesn't exist, like the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and you can point to people like this who say it does exist.
00:40:00.000The bottom line is we're not sure it exists, so it doesn't make sense to have a debate based on our sources.
00:40:37.000Well, what do you think about this here?
00:40:40.000From 1965 to 1980, this is the Apollo affair.
00:40:43.000I don't know if you've ever heard of this.
00:40:45.000But from 1965 to 1980, the FBI investigated Zalman Shapiro, president of the Nuclear Material and Equipment Corporation, over the loss of 206 pounds of highly enriched uranium.
00:40:57.000In 1976, CIA Deputy Director Carl Duckett briefed senior staff at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, stating that they believe that the uranium went to Israel.
00:41:06.000So here you have the CIA Deputy Director Carl Duckett, who says that this guy, Zalman Shapiro, gave this nuclear material, uranium, from the United States, stole it.
00:41:37.000This has not been stress tested in a court of law.
00:41:39.000And again, here's what the people on your side default to unverified conspiracy theories, anecdotal evidence, and here's what people on my side default to.
00:41:50.000Real life foreign policy that's proven very successful and very effective for the United States.
00:42:31.000You guys bring up these conspiracy theories and anecdotes, just like you claim that Israel blew up our ship, the USS Liberty, when all the evidence has been trove through and it was an accident.
00:42:42.000You guys have lots of conspiracy theories that you use to permeate anti Israel and more broadly, not you specifically, but many on your side, anti Semitic.
00:44:15.000So we hear these arguments that it's just very interesting to me that in your defense of $3.8 billion a year to aid in Israel, your arguments are well, they vote for us for the UN.
00:44:26.000Well, other countries do bad things and they get money.
00:44:30.000And like they give us lousy intelligence.
00:45:12.000And that's, I think, my biggest problem, because for people.
00:45:15.000That are Americans, Christians in particular, that want to put America first, we are prejudiced in favor of our country.
00:45:21.000And so when people come over here and they have their prejudices for their, you know, any other country other than the United States, I simply don't think that has any place in politics.
00:45:31.000The slogan of the country is e pluribus unum, out of many, one.
00:45:35.000So that means that you don't get to come here and have your prejudices in favor of another country.
00:45:39.000You don't get to be here and have, you know, this dual allegiance for another country.
00:45:43.000I mean, don't you think that's going to color your position on Israel?
00:45:47.000We're not a fan of everything Israel does.
00:45:49.000I'm not a fan of everything Israel does.
00:45:50.000But listen, their overall policy goals are in line with ours.
00:45:55.000We don't share many things with many countries around the world.
00:45:58.000We don't have, as Obama put it, this global community that's all striving towards the same thing.
00:46:04.000But there are a few countries where we share a few very important interests.
00:46:07.000Israel happens to be a place where we share many of the same interests, many of the same values.
00:46:12.000And frankly, it's just a good deal from a money standpoint.
00:47:43.000Well, again, I would refer you to the neoconservatives.
00:47:46.000I mean, just who are the neoconservatives?
00:47:47.000These are great people that are very smart, like John Bolton.
00:47:51.000These are the quote unquote neoconservatives that you're talking about.
00:47:54.000And you just admitted that as a Jewish person, you're prejudiced in favor of Israel.
00:47:58.000And out of the 25 in favor of the United States.
00:48:02.000I believe that Israel is the eternal homeland of all Jews.
00:48:04.000This is a very non controversial, non scandalous thing that's baked in.
00:48:10.000I think it is a little bit scandalous.
00:48:12.000I think if you went around the world, you'd find it's a little bit controversial.
00:48:15.000Maybe not in America, where they read the Schofield Bible, but I think everybody else understands that this is a pretty controversial position.
00:48:24.000So you say that Israel promotes regional stability by building illegal settlements, by being the only country in the region with a nuclear program.
00:49:11.000Well, you know, because I think it's kind of funny that, again, these are, and by the way, this is not coming from me.
00:49:17.000It is the position of the U.S. government that these are illegal settlements.
00:49:21.000So don't argue with me and say, take me out of this.
00:49:24.000Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that I'm kind of ambivalent as to whether they're illegal or not.
00:49:28.000It's the position of the United States government since 1967 that the civilian settlements, they can have a military occupation, but the civilian settlements are illegal.
00:49:38.000So, I mean, do you, again, are you a better arbiter of American foreign policy and American interest?
00:49:46.000I think I'm a better, I'm not an arbiter of foreign policy.
00:49:49.000I think I'm a better articulator of foreign policy than, say, Barack Obama, but that's for everyone else to decide.
00:49:56.000Okay, well, that's kind of a non answer.
00:49:58.000So, I mean, if you think they're contributing to regional stability by, again, having the only nuclear program in the region, an illegal nuclear program, they're expanding illegal civilian settlements, they are fomenting wars around from Iraq to all over the place, Iran, I mean, the way Bibi Netanyahu shills for war in Iran.
00:50:44.000Take the former prime minister, Yanan's.
00:50:46.000Word for it, who wrote in the 1980s as part of the Securing the Greater Realm of Israel document that it was actually in their interest to take down all these Muslim countries.
00:50:54.000You don't have to take my word for it.
00:50:56.000You can go back to the 1950s they were writing about this.
00:51:00.000And how many countries have been taken down by Israel, Nick?
00:51:03.000Not taken down by Israel, but have just been taken down.
00:51:28.000I told you that out of the 25 neoconservative intellectuals in the Bush administration, more than half were Jewish.
00:51:35.000And as you said earlier, these are your words, not mine.
00:51:37.000You were prejudiced in favor of Israel.
00:51:39.000I would imagine that the people who constructed the Warner Rock, and I could even go back and we can look at all the media that was done by Israelis.
00:51:48.000This is from Philip Zelico, a member of the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, who told a University of Virginia audience in September of 2012, That Saddam Hussein was not a direct threat to the United States.
00:52:00.000He said, The real threat is against Israel.
00:52:04.000And this is the threat that dare not speak its name because Europeans don't care deeply about this threat.
00:52:10.000And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically because it's not a popular sell.
00:52:15.000That was the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, a member.
00:52:19.000General Wesley Clark, retired NATO commander and former presidential candidate, said in August 2002 those who favor this attack now, which is the war in Iraq, Will tell you candidly and privately that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is no threat to the United States, but they are afraid that at some point he might decide if he had a nuclear weapon to use against Israel.
00:52:39.000John Klein in Time magazine a week before the war, quote, a stronger Israel is very much embedded in the rationale for war with Iraq.
00:52:45.000Shimon Peres on CNN, we think and know that Saddam Hussein is on his way to carrying a nuclear weapon, which they knew wasn't true.
00:52:51.000So, I mean, there's just abundant evidence to suggest that Israel was very much in favor of this war and stood to gain a lot.
00:52:58.000And you're arguing that they were in favor of stability?
00:53:11.000With the seat on the Security Council that actually they don't have.
00:53:14.000So, it was the United States, it was the UN Security Council, which Israel doesn't have a seat on, that voted to condemn Saddam Hussein and allow the United States to wage war against him.
00:53:24.000It was Congress, who we can all agree are not majority Jewish, as you seem to think is some sort of issue.
00:53:32.000Who voted to invade Iraq and allow that invasion to take place?
00:53:38.000So I ask you if it was some sort of Jewish conspiracy within the neoconservative intellectuals, the neoconservative intellectuals to me seem to have a hell of a lot less sway than the UN Security Council, than many European nations, and then all of Congress, who also seem to be on the side of invading Iraq.
00:53:57.000So all I'm saying is you can debate the merits of invading Iraq, but to blame it on 25, Half Jewish neoconservative intellectuals seem to be entirely spurious.
00:54:10.000But then, of course, you have all this other testimony.
00:54:12.000Of course, Israel provided a lot of the intelligence that said that there were weapons of mass destruction.
00:54:17.000I mean, there was, after the invasion, a review by the Knesset and the Senate Intelligence Committees that released both of them independent reports revealing that Israeli intelligence was false.
00:54:30.000This is from the Israel lobby about Iraq's WMD program at a time when, by Sharon's own reckoning, quote, Strategic coordination between the U.S. and Israel had reached unprecedented dimensions.
00:54:42.000I'm arguing from the position that if you look at the decision makers behind the war in Iraq, if you looked at the decision makers in Israel, Israel was very much in favor of the war in Iraq.
00:54:52.000Israel stood to gain a lot with the war in Iraq.
00:54:54.000Israel fed false intelligence to the United States that supported war in Iraq.
00:55:01.000Israelis went on American television and supported war in Iraq.
00:55:06.000You had Jewish people, and you said yourself, prejudiced in favor of Israel.
00:55:10.00025 out of 25, more than half that were Jewish supporting war in Israel.
00:55:14.000You have people from the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, you have a former NATO commander, and they're all saying the same thing that Israel wanted the war.
00:55:30.000I'm merely looking at the evidence, which suggests that Israel was a significant contributor, which stands against your argument to suggest that Israel enhances security in the region, when in fact, Israel destabilized this region by advocating for this war, by creating false intelligence, or if they were not directly responsible, they wanted to destabilize the region.
00:55:51.000So obviously, we do not share a common interest, right?
00:56:25.000And you, this like, this consistent campaign of denial of the facts.
00:56:30.000Disinterest in looking into these things and just an overwhelming prejudice in favor.
00:56:35.000I mean, everybody can tell that you're using platitudes.
00:56:37.000I just would say consistently, three to four out of the five arguments you make seem to be based on unverified or utterly debunked conspiracy theories or just outright lies.
00:56:49.000Like the idea that there's some illegal nuclear program that's of concern to the United States.
00:56:53.000If there was some nuclear program that was of concern to the United States, why has there not been one Senate or House subcommittee that's looked into this?
00:57:00.000I think it might have something to do with.
00:58:06.000We can go through the line items again.
00:58:08.000You get $60 billion out in intelligence.
00:58:10.000You look at this and break it down dollar by dollar, dime by dime, and you see that it's a very worthwhile investment.
00:58:17.000I mean, why don't we take the $3.8 billion and put it in Bitcoin or put it in oil drilling or put it in Canadian lesbian dance theory classes?
00:58:27.000It's because it's a good investment in Israel.
00:58:30.000You haven't been able to demonstrate that.
00:58:32.000I mean, again, we give them this money, which you say is an insignificant sum.
00:58:38.000But we give them this, we reward them for bad behavior.
00:58:42.000We reward them for spying on us, for stealing our intelligence, for stealing our nuclear secrets, for selling our weapons technology to foreign countries, to adversaries.
00:58:52.000That's the reason that we give them money, Nick, is because they don't sell technology to the Chinese.
00:59:46.000How about John David, former head of the Justice Department's internal security selection, which says that Israel is the second most active foreign intelligence service in the United States?
00:59:55.000What about Foreign Policy Magazine, which says that Israeli agents have stolen reconnaissance systems from defense contractors?
01:00:02.000How about the 2013 National Intelligence Estimate, which put Israel as the third most aggressive espionage force behind only Russia and China?
01:00:10.000How about the case of Larry Franklin, who was arrested in 2004 for passing classified information regarding Iran?
01:00:17.000To an Israeli diplomat with the assistance of two senior AIPAC officials.
01:00:22.000But, you know, of course, they're all in on it.
01:00:25.000They're all in on the anti Semitic conspiracy.
01:00:27.000They all go to the anti Semite meetings where they say, hmm, how are we going to fabricate evidence?
01:00:33.000How are we going to lie to the American people today and invent these lies about what's happening with Israel?
01:00:39.000I mean, you're the conspiracy theorist.
01:01:23.000The fact that we have air bases in Israel that we can use, the fact that we have weapons caches in Israel that we can use, the fact that Israel is the only shining light in the Middle East against Islamofascism.
01:01:35.000All of those things, which are very quantifiable, which are very demonstrable, and which are very real, to you don't make sense because there's some kind of spy grid going on and there's nuclear programs that you don't like.
01:01:59.000I want to read to you some quotes by David Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, who said in June of 1937 Were I an Arab, I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against the immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule.
01:02:20.000He said in his diary, January 1st, 1948 There is a need now for strong and brutal reaction.
01:02:28.000We need to be accurate about timing, place, and those we hit.
01:02:31.000If we accuse a family, we need to harm them without mercy, women and children included.
01:02:36.000There is no need to distinguish between guilty and non guilty.
01:02:39.000And for a more modern example, how about?
01:02:42.000In the Second Intifada, this is according to Haaretz, the IDF turned into a shocking killing machine with 3.5 to 1 Palestinians killed to every Israeli, and the number of children killed was 5.7 to 1.
01:02:56.000Well over half the casualties were non combatants.
01:03:01.000Condemned the action of the IDF as patently immoral.
01:03:04.000How about the Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, who said neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish traditions can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat?
01:03:14.000Rather, terrorism has a great part to play in our war against the occupier, which was Britain at the time.
01:03:20.000So you have this country from the time of its conception until now has been brutal against the Palestinians.
01:03:27.000I mean, it's all right there from Israeli sources, from Israeli prime ministers, both in practice and in principle.
01:03:41.000Has gone up ninefold over the past 40 years.
01:03:44.000If there's some type of genocide going on against Palestinians, as many people like to claim, it's news to me because the population's gone up ninefold.
01:03:54.000I love how you pivot to an argument that you have an answer for.
01:03:57.000Because notice, I didn't say there was a genocide going on.
01:04:00.000I was saying that you make the case that Israel, excuse me, you say that Israel is a moral.
01:04:22.000Why don't you walk through Raqqa, take a walk through Riyadh, take a walk through Dubai, and take a walk through Islamabad, Pakistan, and then take a walk through Tel Aviv.
01:04:32.000And you let me know which one is the shining light, okay?
01:04:35.000No, I think the conditions most certainly are better in Israel.
01:04:38.000I believe the material conditions are better in Israel, but.
01:04:46.000You keep straw manning me again with arguments and epithets that you have rehearsed in practice, but you have no argument for the fact that the prime minister said that terrorism is not disqualified by Jewish ethics and traditions.
01:04:59.000And it's a great part of our war against Britain.
01:05:01.000The fact that then Begurion, he went on a tour, excuse me, it was Manicham Begin, who went on tour in the United States and said that Israel was not only the founder of terrorism in the Middle East, but in the whole world.
01:06:22.000And, you know, to his credit, I think whatever you might think of what happened, I think Jacob Wohl has some stones to come on and defend that record.
01:06:32.000I think it's a very difficult thing to argue.
01:06:35.000It's a very difficult thing to defend against.
01:07:28.000Conflicts of personality and possibly values and other things.
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