America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - LIVE - CHARLIE KIRK VS VAUSH (FGR) DEBATE | America First Ep. 853

00:00:10.000 Okay, good evening, everybody.

00:00:13.000 You are watching America First.

00:00:14.000 My name is Nicholas J. Fuentes.

00:00:16.000 We got a great show for you tonight. 1.00

00:00:18.000 We are watching the Tim Cass IRL live stream, a live debate between Charlie Kirk and the fat gay retard Vosh. 1.00

00:00:27.000 And we're getting started right away, so I'm going to turn on our volume here. 1.00

00:00:31.000 And we're going to dive right in.

00:00:33.000 I'll be live reacting to this debate.

00:00:35.000 It's unprecedented.

00:00:38.000 And I'll be giving my commentary and my thoughts as we go on.

00:00:41.000 But let's just jump right into it because it's already begun here.

00:00:44.000 Head over to timcast.com, become a member.

00:00:46.000 I'm going to put out a notification on Telegram.

00:00:48.000 And exclusive access to members only segments of this show.

00:00:48.000 I promise.

00:00:51.000 And I guess I wasn't initially planning on it, but I guess everyone's cool to do a member segment after the show and we'll find something fun to talk about.

00:00:57.000 So, you know, we'll see how it plays out.

00:00:59.000 So make sure you become a member.

00:01:00.000 Make sure you like this video, subscribe to this channel, share it with your friends.

00:01:03.000 If you think this conversation is important, I'm sure there are many right wing individuals like, get him, Charlie, crush Vosh.

00:01:09.000 And there's a lot of left wing people being like, Vosh is going to own.

00:01:12.000 We'll share it with your friends and let's have a good conversation. 0.68

00:01:15.000 And I suppose we can start with one of two things.

00:01:18.000 Obviously, I brought up critical race theory, but also the vaccine.

00:01:21.000 So, everybody get in chat, raid chat.

00:01:23.000 Oh, it's sub only.

00:01:25.000 Oh, no.

00:01:26.000 I can't even say anything.

00:01:27.000 Don't sub.

00:01:28.000 Don't sub.

00:01:29.000 But if you are subbed, make sure you say Nick Fuentes.

00:01:34.000 Spam Nick Fuentes.

00:01:35.000 Spam debate Nick Fuentes.

00:01:37.000 If you're in the live chat, if you're a subscriber, I'm not going to encourage people to subscribe.

00:01:41.000 But if you are a subscriber, vaccination rate in the live chat is going to be a lot higher than 90%.

00:01:46.000 Really, really low.

00:01:47.000 Well, then they made a lot of protests, and there were big protests.

00:01:51.000 Now they've actually made a lot of theater moves.

00:01:54.000 If you want to jump in with your thoughts on mandates, what would happen if they came here, if you're for or against them?

00:02:00.000 Look, there are elements of mandates that I can agree with.

00:02:02.000 We've already set standards for other things like the MMR vaccine, very basic standard vaccines that we expect everyone to get before they can.

00:02:09.000 Go to school, travel, and I think for the most part that's worked.

00:02:12.000 We've eradicated plagues from the world.

00:02:14.000 I think we should be proud of that.

00:02:15.000 With regards to COVID, since this is an ongoing pandemic, we need to focus on approaches that are effective and that don't ostracize or exacerbate tensions.

00:02:23.000 With regard to the Australian situation, it's not something I'm extensively familiar with, but generally speaking, I'm spamming chat.

00:02:29.000 Let's go!

00:02:30.000 Let's go!

00:02:31.000 Debate Nick Fuentes.

00:02:32.000 Let's freaking go!

00:02:35.000 Continue, continue to raid the live chat. 0.93

00:02:37.000 Continue to raid the live chat.

00:02:40.000 Throughout the stream.

00:02:41.000 Throughout the stream.

00:02:44.000 Look at how sweaty he is.

00:02:47.000 That might be a little bit better.

00:02:56.000 I guess we'll have to see.

00:03:02.000 Well, I'm not saying you believe this, but some people on the left, I never want to hear about the discussion of voter ID ever again.

00:03:11.000 Me and Charlie are matching.

00:03:12.000 Force people to identify their medical history to try to get into a restaurant in New York City.

00:03:16.000 Yeah, look, I'm not getting the vaccine, so I'm part of the 100 million people that are unvaccinated.

00:03:22.000 And it's an experimental vaccine.

00:03:24.000 The FDA and CDC have said that in January.

00:03:26.000 It's questionably effective.

00:03:28.000 Lindsey Graham just came down with COVID.

00:03:30.000 You had a vessel, a ship in the United Kingdom, 100% vaccinated ship that came down with COVID.

00:03:36.000 It's more like a treatment than a vaccine.

00:03:39.000 I'll leave the conversation to Dr. Brett Weinstein and the people that really understand.

00:03:44.000 How that works.

00:03:45.000 But yeah, this is medical apartheid.

00:03:48.000 This is trying to create a two tiered system where if you don't make the proper medical decisions, you're not able to go to Broadway shows or go into restaurants, even when the efficacy of this vaccine is questionable at best.

00:04:02.000 We see that in Israel, an 85% vaccinated country.

00:04:04.000 That's about to lock down again.

00:04:06.000 And most of these patients are vaccinated patients, not unvaccinated patients.

00:04:10.000 Charlie Kirsch has named them.

00:04:12.000 Sorry, you want to interject, Tim.

00:04:13.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:14.000 Obviously, against mandates.

00:04:15.000 And I think people should be able to make their own medical decisions.

00:04:17.000 I think it's pretty obvious.

00:04:18.000 Well, I disagree.

00:04:19.000 I think we actually have a story we wrote on TimCast.com.

00:04:22.000 That our view of the lockdowns is that it's alarmism because a new study from the Public Health of England found the Pfizer vaccine is 96% effective after two doses at staving off the Delta variant, and AstraZeneca was 92%.

00:04:34.000 That's not true.

00:04:35.000 I would probably agree it's alarmism, but it's enough of an alarm for the public health leaders to undermine the argument that the vaccine is a solution to what would possibly satisfy the public.

00:04:45.000 I mean, I was against the lockdowns in the first place.

00:04:47.000 Let me be very clear when we were 1,000 deaths a day, not 334.

00:04:50.000 But sorry, go ahead.

00:04:50.000 Well, a couple of points on this.

00:04:52.000 First of all, It's experimental in the sense that there was an expedited process for its release, but there have been full and extensive studies taken on the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines.

00:05:00.000 The reason why the FDA study hasn't been finished, the reason why it hasn't been fully vetted, isn't because they're looking for long term health effects, it's because they're determining the extent to which it protects you over a long period of time.

00:05:11.000 Ergo, the fact of the matter is, by all available data, this is undeniably much safer to get the vaccine.

00:05:18.000 I mean, by orders of magnitude.

00:05:19.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:05:20.000 Wait, a couple things, because you said a few things there.

00:05:22.000 There are some instances where areas have more people being infected if they're already vaccinated.

00:05:27.000 But if you take a look at, like, this is like data mining.

00:05:29.000 If you take a look at the broader statistics, especially here in America, the number of people who have gotten breakthrough cases is something like 0.003% of people who have been vaccinated.

00:05:39.000 You can take a look at the numbers.

00:05:40.000 Where is this new wave exploding? 1.00

00:05:43.000 It's in the unvaccinated.

00:05:44.000 In spite of the fact that fewer and fewer people are remaining unvaccinated, the vaccinated stay relatively healthy.

00:05:49.000 And not only do they get infected way less often, they also suffer far fewer severe symptoms.

00:05:56.000 That's not true, though.

00:05:57.000 We covered the data last week on the show.

00:06:00.000 Compared to people who are unvaccinated, this is by all means an effective vaccine.

00:06:04.000 What's your opinion of Johnson Johnson, the FDA saying that it might cause a rare nerve disease?

00:06:09.000 Yeah, that's something that, first of all, when you take a look at that, you have to recognize that even if that was the case.

00:06:17.000 Which the FDA says it is.

00:06:18.000 Well, they're looking into it, of course.

00:06:18.000 Right.

00:06:20.000 They've issued an official warning that it could issue a rare nerve disease.

00:06:25.000 That's a big issue.

00:06:25.000 Let's go.

00:06:26.000 Let's go!

00:06:26.000 That is something to look into and to be concerned about.

00:06:28.000 What's your opinion of VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System?

00:06:31.000 Hold on.

00:06:33.000 I'm just curious.

00:06:34.000 Let's go!

00:06:35.000 Let's do the Gabrielian Bear Syndrome, though.

00:06:37.000 Am I rooting for Charlie Kirk?

00:06:39.000 Now, even if that claim is the case, it would remain the fact that unless the extent of that potential nerve damage is just apocalyptically severe, the effects of getting COVID would still be far, far worse than the potential side effects of that vaccine.

00:06:52.000 However, if you were to say, let's say, worst case, Johnson Johnson, it's not viable, that gets pulled, we see what the consequences are, that doesn't really speak against the greater viability of the vaccines.

00:07:02.000 I got Pfizer, for example.

00:07:03.000 We're talking hundreds of millions of people who have either been protected against the vaccine in part, or if they get it, or sorry, against the virus, or if they get it, their effects, their symptoms are much, much, much more massive.

00:07:15.000 So I just want to just kind of play into the irony here that I'm the one criticizing the pharmaceutical companies and you're the ones that are, you're the one defending it.

00:07:24.000 Let's go!

00:07:25.000 Let's go!

00:07:25.000 Wait, hold on.

00:07:26.000 That's an extremely difficult.

00:07:28.000 You're peddling the Pfizer vaccine.

00:07:30.000 You're saying it's so effective.

00:07:32.000 I'm taking it.

00:07:32.000 So what do you say?

00:07:33.000 But I'm the one saying, hold on, maybe AstraZeneca, Moderna, Johnson Johnson, and Pfizer.

00:07:38.000 Let's talk about the points he's made. 1.00

00:07:40.000 Damn fool. 1.00

00:07:41.000 Well, the thing is, it's not really like irony if you understand the issue at hand. 1.00

00:07:45.000 See, my praise doesn't go to the pharmaceutical companies or their CEOs.

00:07:49.000 It goes to the tireless workers who spend months developing these vaccines.

00:07:53.000 I'm very, very, very big fan.

00:07:55.000 Well, hold on.

00:07:56.000 Have I at any point praised the distribution or profiteering system of the government?

00:08:02.000 Who do you think gets rich from vaccine mandates?

00:08:05.000 The workers or the Pfizer? 0.97

00:08:07.000 Let's go!

00:08:08.000 This is not your whole topic.

00:08:12.000 This is a toothless critique that you could apply to literally anything that you don't like.

00:08:15.000 Everything in this country is.

00:08:17.000 Manufactured to the profit of the EU.

00:08:18.000 We don't mandate it and say you can't go to restaurants if you don't get one of four major pharmaceutical medicines.

00:08:24.000 Wait, wait, wait.

00:08:25.000 I just want to say if that's your criticism, that's one of many.

00:08:27.000 Then you should.

00:08:28.000 So if that's the criticism you want to focus on, I'm in favor of nationalizing the pharmaceutical industry.

00:08:33.000 I'm willing to take it that far.

00:08:34.000 But whether or not that's on the table, and I can't just make that happen, when we're talking strictly about the effectiveness of the vaccine, it seems so effective.

00:08:42.000 So that's not a praise of the capitalist industry behind it.

00:08:45.000 No, I was just enjoying the irony.

00:08:46.000 It's not irony.

00:08:47.000 Well, it's totally ironic because I'm the one saying that they might be lying to us.

00:08:50.000 You're the one that's saying it's super effective.

00:08:52.000 Wait, what would you say?

00:08:53.000 Usually, if we were wearing our traditional uniforms, right versus left, it would be the other way around.

00:08:57.000 That's all I'm saying.

00:08:58.000 The only comment I'm making is that it's not.

00:08:59.000 What do you have to say about VARES, though?

00:09:00.000 What do you have to say about the vaccine adverse event reporting system that says, well, over 7,000 people experience death after getting the vaccine?

00:09:07.000 Does that worry you?

00:09:08.000 The VARES system is entirely self reported.

00:09:11.000 I don't think it's generally used to say it's under reported or over reported?

00:09:15.000 With VARES, it's almost impossible to say.

00:09:17.000 You know what VARES is, right?

00:09:18.000 Can you tell me what VARES is?

00:09:19.000 Yeah, VARES is a government website that physicians or individuals can submit complaints or concerns after an adverse event report from a vaccine.

00:09:28.000 Since you cannot win in court against a vaccine production company, then they go through some process where the government then can distribute some form of remedy if you had an adverse event reaction.

00:09:39.000 That's what VARES is.

00:09:39.000 And researchers like it because if you take a vaccine or you get some other procedure, any medical drug done, you can report the effects there.

00:09:47.000 And it can be a way of gathering sort of aggregate data concerning the effects of these.

00:09:52.000 Of these potential treatments.

00:09:54.000 The problem is, researchers don't use this as a bulletproof way of determining the outcome or effect of anything because they're literally just unvetted online submissions that anybody can put in.

00:10:05.000 So I ask you because I want to know how do you arrive at the conclusion that how many people did you say?

00:10:10.000 Well, it's VARES's own data is 7,000 plus, and most of which, by the way, that anyone can submit.

00:10:16.000 By the way, most of which are physician submitted, just so you know.

00:10:19.000 The total number?

00:10:20.000 Most of the submissions on the VARES website are done by like family doctors or local physicians.

00:10:27.000 So, I'm just asking, what number of adverse event reactions would you say maybe there's something wrong?

00:10:32.000 But I'm asking that.

00:10:33.000 10,000 deaths?

00:10:34.000 How do you know these deaths were caused by vaccines?

00:10:36.000 No, I'm just saying that's what Vare says, right?

00:10:38.000 No, wait, so I need to know this.

00:10:40.000 We don't.

00:10:40.000 That's the question.

00:10:42.000 So, wait, is these just people who have died after taking the vaccine?

00:10:45.000 Like they may have died from some medical incident afterwards and it just gets put up there as a question.

00:10:49.000 This is the question.

00:10:50.000 Usually a vaccine gets pulled when you have 15 attributable deaths.

00:10:54.000 We have 7,000 that we have to go through.

00:10:55.000 The question is, when do you call timeout and say, Maybe we've seen that.

00:10:58.000 You're not answering the question.

00:10:59.000 How do you know that they're from the vaccine?

00:11:01.000 We don't.

00:11:01.000 That's the point.

00:11:02.000 Oh, okay.

00:11:02.000 But you don't either.

00:11:04.000 But the position is let's mandate experimental medicine.

00:11:07.000 We don't know actually what's happening.

00:11:09.000 Wait, if you don't know, then how can you say that medical doctors are the one uploading this information?

00:11:13.000 Is there any methodology or looking at this?

00:11:14.000 We do know who's actually uploading it.

00:11:16.000 We know that.

00:11:17.000 We know the entries are usually typically, traditionally.

00:11:20.000 How about menstrual cycle disruption, loss of nerve capacity, unable to walk, paralysis, miscarriages?

00:11:28.000 Mm hmm.

00:11:30.000 Mood changes.

00:11:31.000 Also, you can go through the various data.

00:11:32.000 It's all interesting.

00:11:33.000 Mood changes?

00:11:35.000 What about the death?

00:11:36.000 Death is 7,000 plus.

00:11:37.000 That's a serious question.

00:11:38.000 How do they know it's from the vaccine?

00:11:40.000 I keep asking you this.

00:11:41.000 Let me address two points, one from each of you, real quick, so we can try and.

00:11:44.000 How do we know it's from the vaccine?

00:11:47.000 It's a difficult question.

00:11:48.000 That's the whole point.

00:11:49.000 That's the whole point.

00:11:50.000 You don't know.

00:11:51.000 That's exactly the problem. 0.90

00:11:54.000 The Vosh position is to mandate the vaccine.

00:11:58.000 There's no competent system to track the death. 0.99

00:12:01.000 And I think 7,000 suggests there may be one at the very least.

00:12:05.000 I'm not a scientist, so I can't stress that.

00:12:07.000 I will also say, however, to Charlie, Ghislaine Bear syndrome, which I'm probably pronouncing wrong, it's a side effect.

00:12:12.000 I always mispronounce it.

00:12:13.000 Yeah, I mean, it's a Guillain Bear bar.

00:12:14.000 Guillain Bear bar.

00:12:14.000 There you go.

00:12:16.000 My understanding is actually a side effect of many vaccines.

00:12:18.000 Yeah, it is.

00:12:19.000 And so, totally, that's correct.

00:12:20.000 It could be.

00:12:21.000 Well, so the issue I have is one of the things that Vosh brought up is that there's been, how many you mentioned, 100 million, 160 million?

00:12:28.000 115, I think it is, million.

00:12:30.000 Who have been fully vaccinated?

00:12:31.000 Fully vaccinated.

00:12:31.000 I think in that ballpark.

00:12:33.000 So, of course, you know, if you have something very different from any other vaccine, go work spamming, debate, and explain.

00:12:40.000 Just keep that going.

00:12:41.000 It's very good.

00:12:42.000 Yeah, so this is a mass inoculation thing.

00:12:43.000 And so here's why the American system should answer this question easily.

00:12:48.000 When you have any sort of uncertainty or disagreement, yield to rights.

00:12:53.000 So, yield to rights.

00:12:54.000 Allow people to say no.

00:12:55.000 Let me just build out the argument, right?

00:12:56.000 So, for me, for example, I'm 27.

00:12:59.000 I don't consider COVID to be a largely disproportionate risk to my way of life.

00:13:04.000 I don't know about this vaccine.

00:13:06.000 I have gotten other vaccines in my life.

00:13:08.000 So, I want to be able to have the right to say no to that.

00:13:11.000 So, the American system, constitution, kind of like the tradition, is to be able to have people have nuance, preferences, and individualism when it comes to these sort of complex issues, not saying you can't go to a restaurant because we want you to take experimental medicine.

00:13:25.000 Right.

00:13:25.000 So a couple of points on that.

00:13:27.000 First of all, if we're speaking to legal rights, the Supreme Court found over a century ago that when it came to vaccinations, this was a special exemption from some people's rights to.

00:13:36.000 I will agree with you that the courts are not on my side.

00:13:38.000 I will agree with you that the courts are not on my side.

00:13:39.000 1904 in that one.

00:13:40.000 And there's a reason why.

00:13:41.000 Because, of course, when you choose not to take the vaccine, you contribute to the removal of others' freedoms.

00:13:47.000 See, it's true.

00:13:47.000 You do have a freedom to not or to take a vaccine.

00:13:51.000 But I think other people should have the freedom to not grow up in a world ridden by plague.

00:13:55.000 And with the way this disease, COVID, mutates with time, as all diseases do, inevitably, if it continues to circle the world.

00:14:04.000 The vaccine is causing this disease.

00:14:05.000 This is an international problem, not just a.

00:14:07.000 The mutation is in response to the vaccine.

00:14:09.000 New strains will develop, which will slowly ebb at the effectiveness of this set of vaccines.

00:14:13.000 So it threatens all of us.

00:14:14.000 Just for.

00:14:15.000 Well, may I say one other thing?

00:14:16.000 Sorry, sorry.

00:14:18.000 With all of that being said, just to speak to VARS, VARS is an incredibly effective system for locating and roughly attributing concerns related to the effects of drugs.

00:14:27.000 The problem is that there are several.

00:14:30.000 Elements to this disease that make it really difficult to pinpoint anything specific.

00:14:34.000 The two of which being A, hundreds of millions of people vaccinated.

00:14:37.000 That is a huge range to pull data from.

00:14:40.000 And B, the propagandist fear campaigns and incredibly effective vaccine process that may lead people to misattribute whatever they've experienced to vaccines.

00:14:50.000 Just quick clarification.

00:14:50.000 Sorry.

00:14:51.000 Are you for mandating the COVID 19 vaccine?

00:14:55.000 The same way we have other vaccines, like school, travel, that kind of stuff.

00:14:58.000 He won't give us data.

00:14:59.000 So, what if someone wanted to go to a restaurant or a supermarket or a movie theater?

00:15:02.000 I think that.

00:15:03.000 I mean, we don't have that for other vaccines, right?

00:15:04.000 Like every time you go to a movie theater, you have a little card.

00:15:07.000 I understand that might be an effective panic measure, but long term, my goal would be to integrate it into the same revenue of vaccines.

00:15:13.000 I think that's a more reasonable response than some politicians.

00:15:16.000 I'm just going to be honest.

00:15:17.000 People are panicking.

00:15:18.000 I think that's a more.

00:15:19.000 I just want to make sure we weren't having misunderstandings.

00:15:22.000 No, I think that's more of a reasonable answer.

00:15:24.000 I'm just curious, just on the vaccine topic in general.

00:15:28.000 Are you concerned by Dr. Malone coming out, who literally invented the mRNA vaccine and says that there's a dangerous spike protein involved and encourages people?

00:15:37.000 To think twice before getting it.

00:15:39.000 Well, you're free to speak with your doctor when it comes to a.

00:15:39.000 Does that move you at all?

00:15:42.000 No, Dr. Malone, just his specific commentary.

00:15:44.000 His specific.

00:15:45.000 The guy who invented this type of vaccine.

00:15:47.000 I'm not a PhD, and I doubt that he was directly involved in production.

00:15:50.000 Charlie does have this.

00:15:50.000 I love it.

00:15:51.000 He literally invented this type of vaccine.

00:15:53.000 The mRNA, but with the drugs and drugs and the Pfizer.

00:15:55.000 But he's very, very aware of this sort of accelerated implementation.

00:15:58.000 He's trying to call time out and tell people this is not like any other vaccine.

00:16:02.000 Does that worry you?

00:16:03.000 His claim is that it involves a spike protein.

00:16:05.000 It was rushed to market.

00:16:06.000 It's going to have side effects.

00:16:08.000 You don't understand it like I did.

00:16:09.000 I invented this, and you've got to think twice before mandating it or even taking it if you're under a certain age.

00:16:15.000 Does that bother you?

00:16:16.000 What makes the current retinue of vaccines that we take?

00:16:19.000 The mRNA process is different from other mRNAs.

00:16:21.000 It doesn't involve the spike protein, according to him, the same composition as the measles mumps rubella type vaccine or the chickenpox vaccine.

00:16:28.000 Well, those weren't mRNA.

00:16:29.000 The process wasn't developed back during the MMR vaccine.

00:16:31.000 But some of them are getting updated for the more mRNA type technology.

00:16:31.000 Totally.

00:16:35.000 If he wasn't involved in the production of these modern vaccines, how could he possibly have any comment on any of the rigors or tests that were going on?

00:16:41.000 Because he invented this type of vaccine.

00:16:42.000 I'm just saying, does that bother you?

00:16:43.000 Do you think he's just like a fear propagandist and like.

00:16:45.000 No, he may well have concerns, but those are concerns that I would rather have addressed by the scientific community rather than, with respect to you and myself, YouTubers.

00:16:53.000 Well, no, I agree.

00:16:54.000 But the question is, which scientists, right?

00:16:56.000 So there's a lot of scientists speaking out against this.

00:16:58.000 Dr. Brett Weinstein.

00:16:58.000 I always appeal to the scientific community.

00:17:01.000 What is Dr. Brett Weinstein's?

00:17:02.000 He's an evolutionary biologist, so he knows a little bit about how that is not verbal.

00:17:06.000 And we have to trust the scientists that say the things I agree with.

00:17:10.000 Do you trust Fauci more or Dr. Brett Weinstein?

00:17:12.000 It's not about Fauci.

00:17:13.000 He's a virologist who's been wrong about everything.

00:17:13.000 It's about Fauci.

00:17:15.000 It's about the global.

00:17:16.000 Well, hold on.

00:17:17.000 He's smiling with glee here.

00:17:18.000 It's the global medical community in this regard.

00:17:21.000 You mean like the WHO?

00:17:23.000 Hold on.

00:17:23.000 No, not.

00:17:24.000 Put a name behind it, though.

00:17:25.000 Wait, he's very excited to interrupt me.

00:17:26.000 Yeah, yeah, let's.

00:17:27.000 I just want to say it's not just about the WHO.

00:17:29.000 We're talking about a unified effort on the part of virtually every country on earth to get a hold of the vaccines that us Americans are privileged to have.

00:17:36.000 This isn't just some, this isn't some like pharmaceutical Dr. Fauci push that wasn't broadly supported by any of the relevant experts.

00:17:43.000 In the mRNA field, which is not huge because it's a very new development, internationally, there is a demand for these vaccines.

00:17:52.000 I wanted to add just based on what you had said.

00:17:54.000 I can pull up Reuters.

00:17:55.000 Their fact check is that vaccines are not, quote, cytotoxic.

00:17:59.000 They go on to mention that Robert Malone, and they show the Brett Weinstein podcast, they show the post.

00:18:06.000 The FDA was alerted months ago that the spike protein in the COVID vaccines are cytotoxic, toxic to cells.

00:18:12.000 The FDA did nothing.

00:18:13.000 Reuters says this is not true.

00:18:15.000 Now, the issue at hand is trust.

00:18:18.000 Like you mentioned, you said, do you trust Fauci over Weinstein?

00:18:21.000 I don't know if there is a fact based argument if you have the doctors you trust and the doctors you trust or the organizations you trust.

00:18:28.000 It's a clash of who you believe, to be honest.

00:18:29.000 None of us have the credentials to just come up with these arguments on their own.

00:18:33.000 There will always be bias in who we choose to believe.

00:18:35.000 However, given the plurality of people seem to support the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccine, and the fact that it doesn't take a virologist to notice that over half a million Americans have died to COVID, more than the combined death tolls of every war since World War I combined, including the Second World War in Vietnam.

00:18:51.000 Nine out of ten with comorbidities.

00:18:53.000 Can I ask you a question, though?

00:18:54.000 That's pretty bad.

00:18:57.000 One of the issues that's brought up frequently, especially on Twitter, is that many of these COVID deaths are.

00:19:01.000 Died with COVID, as it's brought up, where people would say something like it tends to be people who are over 70 or things like that.

00:19:07.000 I'm only bringing that up not to make the argument, but because you said, how would bears know if his reaction is comorbid?

00:19:12.000 I'd love to respond to that if I may.

00:19:13.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:14.000 COVID rarely, like, directly kills you.

00:19:17.000 Like age, it causes a breakdown in other vital functions that then their death can be attributed as such.

00:19:23.000 So, for example, of the many things that people die, it's not really COVID, it's just that COVID blanks their entire system internally, and eventually something fails, something breaks, and they die.

00:19:33.000 There were people claiming that there were deaths being spuriously attributed to COVID 19 very rarely during this pandemic.

00:19:38.000 But thankfully, we know that there are people that got hit by a car, died, happened to have COVID, and they called that a COVID death.

00:19:45.000 That's real.

00:19:46.000 That has happened.

00:19:47.000 Because there's a very normal pattern, you know, normally with this many people in this country.

00:19:51.000 We see an excess starting when COVID started that almost perfectly grafts on to the rising death waves of COVID.

00:19:57.000 I mean, it perfectly tracks on to that.

00:19:59.000 I just want to say for you, Charlie, I think, you know, the issue I see here is for me, it's I can't trust or distrust.

00:20:06.000 I don't know.

00:20:06.000 You know, I think Brett Weinstein's a very smart guy, and I don't think he's going to lie to me, and these doctors are very smart people.

00:20:11.000 Then I see the government agencies that, you know, I don't always trust the government, be completely honest.

00:20:16.000 I'm not a big fan.

00:20:17.000 But to believe that there's like a nefarious effort or anything like that, ultimately what it comes down to is, in my opinion, having a trusted medical professional that you can consult with.

00:20:25.000 Well, I totally agree.

00:20:26.000 And I think there could be an argument that if you're over the age of 70, that this vaccine might be a really good idea for you.

00:20:32.000 However, to mandate it for schools and for colleges, when these are highly complex medical decisions, that's where I'm going to push back against it.

00:20:44.000 Well, really, let me let me I don't want to speak out of turn.

00:20:50.000 I believe so.

00:20:52.000 I would love to be fact checked on that.

00:20:53.000 Johnson and Chancellor.

00:20:54.000 I'm not totally sure if my memory is correct.

00:20:55.000 So, I guess another question I have what do you think of alternative type treatments, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin?

00:21:02.000 Why the push for mass inoculation?

00:21:04.000 Well, because hydroxychloroquine studies have found it largely ineffective.

00:21:08.000 There was, I believe, a French study that stopped when people started dying of heart failure.

00:21:12.000 I think the only reason the right dies in this hill is because Trump mentioned it.

00:21:15.000 I don't think there'd be a push for it otherwise.

00:21:17.000 The vaccines are the effective way of getting mass populations inoculated.

00:21:20.000 And while it is true that most of the people who die are ancient, the fact remains that people experience long term side effects from getting COVID, even if they survive.

00:21:29.000 I know people who are in their 30s, and, you know, me, a blistering 27 year old myself, I'm not especially worried, but I've heard them talk about how much harder it is for them to climb up flights of stairs.

00:21:38.000 I know that erectile dysfunction, fellas, is one of the listed potential side effects of getting COVID, even young, healthy, no other problems.

00:21:46.000 It is true that death is most comorbid.

00:21:50.000 With age and pre existing conditions.

00:21:52.000 But still, and that's not even to speak of the COVID variants.

00:21:55.000 I mean, right now we're on Delta, but if it keeps cycling around the world, who knows what it's going to get.

00:22:02.000 So Johnson Johnson is not an mRNA vaccine.

00:22:05.000 So there's an alternative to mRNA if you're concerned about it.

00:22:08.000 There was some guidance with the nerve disease with that.

00:22:11.000 Sorry to interrupt.

00:22:12.000 I do think we kind of overlooked something really interesting is that when did we mandate vaccinations in public schools?

00:22:19.000 Well, I know the Supreme Court case concerning this was in 1904.

00:22:22.000 Yeah, so I would know it would have to have been earlier than that.

00:22:24.000 I know that Washington even had his troops vaccinated, though, I think.

00:22:27.000 For smallpox.

00:22:28.000 Smallpox, was it?

00:22:28.000 Yeah.

00:22:29.000 Yeah.

00:22:30.000 Which is pretty crazy to think about.

00:22:31.000 Inoculated, not vaccinated.

00:22:32.000 I don't know what they did, hit people with a rock and then, like, they would.

00:22:32.000 You're right.

00:22:35.000 It was like a needle, I think.

00:22:37.000 It was.

00:22:37.000 And they would, like, prick you with the needle that had, like, a weakened sample or something.

00:22:40.000 And they would have forged that you.

00:22:41.000 And they would have forged that you.

00:22:43.000 Isn't that crazy to think about?

00:22:43.000 Like, with a blacksmith.

00:22:44.000 Like, Washington's troops.

00:22:46.000 They still.

00:22:47.000 I know, like, someone pouring it and then, like.

00:22:49.000 The problem with Kurt's argument is he's giving so much to the other side, saying, like, well, I just don't want to take it.

00:22:55.000 I think the real issue for the most part is conceded half the balance.

00:23:00.000 I just also have another question.

00:23:01.000 Do you think that there might be any bad motives behind these four companies, AstraZeneca, Moderna?

00:23:07.000 It's not.

00:23:08.000 You don't even have to prove a bad motive.

00:23:10.000 Considering they are big pharma and they pursue profits, which generally, as a libertarian socialist, you're skeptical of.

00:23:16.000 Do you think maybe they might have nefarious motives?

00:23:18.000 Oh, their intentions are reprehensible.

00:23:20.000 They have, for many years, made money off the backs of American deaths.

00:23:23.000 The opioid crisis is almost entirely attributable to the Massachusetts and the Sackler family.

00:23:27.000 Yeah, I mean.

00:23:28.000 No moral love for these companies.

00:23:30.000 If this could be, and by the way, the mRNA process was developed through public funding.

00:23:33.000 It was, you know, an effort invested in by the collective good, something I'm generally supportive of.

00:23:38.000 Like, there's any kind of.

00:23:38.000 When it comes to these companies themselves, and when I say, you know, go get your Pfizer vaccine, whatever, please do not mistake this or anything else that I say for an endorsement of the practices of these companies.

00:23:47.000 It is only through cruel twist of fate and the economic system we live in that they are the ones put in a position to handle this.

00:23:54.000 But it was the workers at those companies, not the CEOs, who did the work.

00:23:57.000 I'm just curious, does that ever make you stop short and say, huh, maybe they're trying to massively inoculate us on a vaccine that might not be as effective to try to pursue profit, not well being?

00:24:08.000 Does that ever, like, Enter into your.

00:24:11.000 It's a consideration.

00:24:12.000 It's a consideration you should take about anything produced by any company that's run for profit, which is everything.

00:24:18.000 You know, basically every need in American society needs tempered by the knowledge.

00:24:23.000 Don't you think they're trying to sell us the vaccines?

00:24:25.000 Everyone's trying to sell everything.

00:24:26.000 That's the case.

00:24:27.000 Okay.

00:24:27.000 Everything we do.

00:24:28.000 Everything.

00:24:29.000 And you're pushing for a vaccine mandate.

00:24:30.000 Run down Main Street, or in my case, I guess, you know, the boulevards in Los Angeles. 1.00

00:24:35.000 Guy's such an asshole. 1.00

00:24:36.000 You're seeing the protracted efforts of a billion dollar industry to make sure you want things they're selling. 1.00

00:24:41.000 Could that be the case for COVID?

00:24:43.000 Undeniably, there was a profit incentive involved.

00:24:46.000 Oh, my goodness, I'm sorry.

00:24:47.000 And there was probably a protracted effort on the part of these companies to make sure they were the first, and they probably took every dirty advantage they could.

00:24:53.000 But with the data available, I have to still, much as I would say, hey, I would prefer eating McDonald's food to starvation, I have to say this is probably still something we should be doing.

00:25:05.000 Do you want to do?

00:25:06.000 I don't want to stand.

00:25:07.000 No, for sure.

00:25:07.000 It's been 20 minutes.

00:25:08.000 Do you want to make a final point?

00:25:09.000 Maybe you would starve instead of starving.

00:25:10.000 I actually think this has been really constructive and not like that inflammatory.

00:25:14.000 It's been constructive.

00:25:15.000 I think that.

00:25:16.000 Deep down, you have this kind of urge that I'm already there where maybe they want this thing to go on for another decade to go make another hundred billion dollars.

00:25:25.000 And maybe the cheap drug of hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin might work better than they might think.

00:25:30.000 I don't have that urge.

00:25:33.000 Other studies would disagree with you earlier.

00:25:34.000 We could change the topic.

00:25:36.000 I just think it's.

00:25:37.000 That was a healthy discourse.

00:25:39.000 Can I meet in the middle on that one, on that very last one?

00:25:41.000 I do not trust the pharmaceutical industry.

00:25:44.000 The available evidence does seem to point to the effectiveness of the vaccines.

00:25:47.000 I say this.

00:25:48.000 We just don't know, and I just don't want to take it.

00:25:50.000 This has been such a constructive discourse.

00:25:52.000 I unironically actually trusted more in the hands of an effective, bloated government than I would the sociopaths who run it currently.

00:25:59.000 So I'll wrap this up by saying.

00:26:01.000 He started off strong.

00:26:03.000 Always talk to your doctor.

00:26:04.000 This is one of the biggest things.

00:26:04.000 But he gave it up.

00:26:05.000 Like, YouTube is very strict on this, especially.

00:26:07.000 But I genuinely think this is the right answer.

00:26:09.000 If you're watching this, don't assume anyone here is right or wrong.

00:26:12.000 I mean, I'm sure there are people who think Charlie's made a bunch of good points, and you have.

00:26:15.000 Ultimately, it's down between you and your doctor.

00:26:17.000 And I'll stress, you know, for whatever your opinion, Charlie, I understand.

00:26:22.000 Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin haven't been approved by the FDA.

00:26:25.000 Kirk is barely talking.

00:26:26.000 He was asking questions whether it works or not.

00:26:29.000 So that's why I think it's really important because I think there are.

00:26:31.000 He's not making arguments.

00:26:33.000 He's doing.

00:26:33.000 In regards to ivermectin, people have been eating horse paste that they sell.

00:26:37.000 I looked at what the FDA says about it.

00:26:39.000 They say do not do this.

00:26:40.000 And they actually give a very good reason.

00:26:41.000 They say although people are claiming that an animal can take it, someone else can.

00:26:45.000 That's not true.

00:26:46.000 There are some things that dogs can take it because humans can.

00:26:48.000 Especially because humans can.

00:26:49.000 So please talk to your doctor.

00:26:51.000 And I definitely hope.

00:26:52.000 You passed the ball having a lot of.

00:26:53.000 Expecting that you're going to nail them.

00:26:55.000 Hey, I'm going to nail them with this question.

00:26:57.000 I'm really glad you guys are here.

00:26:58.000 And Vosh just takes it in and takes it where he wants to go with it.

00:27:00.000 Yes.

00:27:01.000 Ivermectin is technically a drug for horses.

00:27:02.000 You have to make off label uses.

00:27:04.000 And instead of these like smug, like, hey, are you so attractive?

00:27:08.000 That's just not a good strategy. 0.83

00:27:09.000 And please, any drug for horses will burn a human out from the inside.

00:27:13.000 Those things are, you've been there, they're titans.

00:27:17.000 So let's talk about the other big topic, critical race theory.

00:27:21.000 You know, that's the one that I'm going to talk about.

00:27:24.000 This is interesting.

00:27:24.000 Here we go.

00:27:25.000 The other one was kind of lame.

00:27:26.000 This is.

00:27:27.000 And it was because I think my approach to it was.

00:27:28.000 And we'll see what Charlie Kirk says as well.

00:27:30.000 Last time we had Vaishan, when you asked me about it, I couldn't give you a good answer.

00:27:34.000 And I think we can talk about what's happening in schools, the things they're teaching children, and I don't know if either of you has an opinion and wants to start off with.

00:27:41.000 The floor is yours.

00:27:42.000 Yeah.

00:27:42.000 So there are two CRTs.

00:27:43.000 There's the critical race theory that I know of, which is a highly esoteric, essentially elective class that you can take in some law schools that teaches you a variety of incredibly eclectic legal theories that I, some of which I like and some of which I think I disagree with.

00:27:57.000 And then there's the critical race theory that people like Christopher Ruffo have been trying to push, a sort of catch all term to describe all anti racism.

00:28:04.000 We see these.

00:28:05.000 Anti CRT bills being put through state legislators, and a lot of them don't even mention critical race theory.

00:28:10.000 They mention stuff that's been boilerplate anti racist theory for like two centuries.

00:28:15.000 That stuff really concerns me.

00:28:16.000 If I think that academia is to an extent sacred, of course, all the good things in our society now were born in the halls of academia.

00:28:23.000 The Enlightenment, our democracy, the fair trial that we enjoy if we're arrested, these were things that were originally considered to be the crackpot initiatives of academics, and only through the respect of those ideas have we arrived at, well, what we have today.

00:28:35.000 So, if there are problems that are solved in academia, not through the big enlightenment, wasn't it?

00:28:44.000 So, a point of clarification you don't believe that critical race theory is in schools.

00:28:49.000 I think that maybe there are ideas which overlap with critical race theory, but there's always going to be overlap between academic ideas.

00:28:56.000 I mean, you know, I drank water, so did Hitler, one of those type situations.

00:29:01.000 I think you're coming at it in good faith where you're technically correct here.

00:29:05.000 That the super academic way of defining critical race theory is not being taught to fourth graders, right?

00:29:12.000 I hope so.

00:29:13.000 With that being said, it's almost like saying, you know, we're not teaching advanced geometry to fourth graders, but we are teaching them, you know, very basic math, right?

00:29:13.000 It'd be pretty difficult.

00:29:23.000 We'll get them the Euclidean geometry.

00:29:25.000 So the very basics of this are definitely in schools.

00:29:29.000 And there are many examples of this, right?

00:29:30.000 The National Education Association literally came out in their press release and said that they are going to push.

00:29:37.000 And their word was critical race theory, just so we're clear.

00:29:40.000 They use that term, right?

00:29:41.000 That's not Christopher Roof, though.

00:29:43.000 That's not James Lindsay, who are good friends of mine.

00:29:45.000 That's the National Education Association, right?

00:29:49.000 And I think they might even be talking about something different than the Delgado theory of critical race theory, right?

00:29:55.000 And so what I want to try to do here, Tim, is we can talk about critical race theory as an academic theory, or we could use a filler term like wokeism, which is more like racial justice, which I actually think would probably be.

00:30:06.000 Come on now.

00:30:07.000 We can call it racial justice and meet in the middle.

00:30:09.000 I mean, I really feel like.

00:30:11.000 Call it what it is.

00:30:12.000 Four digit numbers. 0.98

00:30:13.000 It's about white people. 0.78

00:30:14.000 It's about race.

00:30:15.000 It's about critical race theory.

00:30:17.000 Not including myself.

00:30:18.000 I'm not even prepared to do that.

00:30:19.000 But I'm happy to talk about racial justice education and wokeism, which I think is what the discourse is centered on.

00:30:25.000 Well, I think you guys actually agree, in essence, that the academic critical race theory is there's overlap with a component in schools.

00:30:33.000 But what we often hear is someone will say, critical race theory is being talked to my kids.

00:30:38.000 And then someone will say, cite one author of critical race theory that we've brought up in school.

00:30:41.000 Yeah.

00:30:42.000 And the issue is, we refer to it as, I believe it's called critical race praxis.

00:30:47.000 So this is something different than critical race theory.

00:30:49.000 It's being implemented in education.

00:30:51.000 But that's why you said wokeism.

00:30:53.000 Well, I just think that discussion is so unhelpful when Joy Reid and Christopher Ruffo are screaming at each other, and Joy Reid is saying, like, it's not being taught anywhere, Christopher Ruffo.

00:31:02.000 So, yes, it is.

00:31:03.000 When in reality, they're both right.

00:31:05.000 They're just talking about two completely different things.

00:31:07.000 No, I do.

00:31:07.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:31:08.000 And Christopher Ruffo has admitted this is like a kind of tactic.

00:31:10.000 Critical race theory does sound spooky.

00:31:12.000 You know, I get a little shiver when I say it.

00:31:14.000 Whereas stuff like anti racist theory or structural racism maybe compels a little bit more thought when discussed on.

00:31:21.000 It's kind of a moral panic that, in principle, I really disagree with.

00:31:25.000 But if you want to talk, I mean, we can call it wokeism if you want.

00:31:28.000 That's probably a more accurate term.

00:31:30.000 I will just say to the point about Christopher Ruffo, white supremacist is also used as a catch all term in the other direction.

00:31:37.000 If we're talking, I mean, in academia, the term white supremacist is virtually never used.

00:31:41.000 It's sort of a common parlance.

00:31:43.000 What I will say, though, about to give credit to Christopher Ruffo is that this is all kind of downstream from the conversation that Marcuse and Delgado started.

00:31:52.000 It really is.

00:31:52.000 Well, let's talk about it then.

00:31:53.000 But just one thing, though, since we're operating under the blanket wokeism, which is a really broad term, let's talk about specific ideas.

00:32:01.000 Because I'm sure there are some of them that I can provide a good defense for, and some of them I don't. 0.79

00:32:04.000 So, how about like black only dormitories? 1.00

00:32:07.000 Generally, not a fan. 0.96

00:32:08.000 I think that I don't think they're like explicitly harmful in the same way that traditional segregation is, but I also think that it incentivizes bad types of socialization where the way that you get a reprieve from the faults of society is to find comfort in people of your own race.

00:32:24.000 Maybe that incentivizes some bad stuff.

00:32:27.000 In my university, we had safe spaces, but you know what they were?

00:32:29.000 They were like chilled, like coffee break rooms behind like Latin.

00:32:34.000 I went to Humboldt State.

00:32:35.000 Okay.

00:32:36.000 Right behind there, and like anyone could go in there, whatever. 0.98

00:32:38.000 Just the only thing that they asked was that you not be like a dick, but as long as you met that qualification, that was fine. 0.95

00:32:44.000 That to me, that's a good space. 1.00

00:32:45.000 Don't be an asshole. 1.00

00:32:46.000 This is a don't be an asshole space. 1.00

00:32:48.000 I had to go through more. 1.00

00:32:49.000 It's not a space, it's called don't be an asshole around here. 0.98

00:32:51.000 This is actually really helpful. 0.98

00:32:53.000 So, how about reparations for slavery?

00:32:57.000 I think I'm pretty in favor of that, yeah.

00:32:58.000 Okay, make the argument.

00:33:00.000 It's just an ode debt.

00:33:01.000 So, is this just a quiz now?

00:33:02.000 Is this just 20 questions with Vosh?

00:33:04.000 And unfortunately, the material reality for a lot of people who were slaves didn't change that much after they were emancipated.

00:33:09.000 I mean.

00:33:10.000 If you were a slave and you're made free, that's a big step up, don't get me wrong, but you have nothing.

00:33:15.000 I mean, nothing.

00:33:16.000 And because of the way generational wealth transfers from father to son or mother to either, to anyone to their children, yeah, caught me there.

00:33:25.000 Unfortunately, we still see the consequences of that borne out.

00:33:27.000 You can actually look county by county where were slaves kept?

00:33:31.000 Which were the plantation counties?

00:33:33.000 And you see, oh, this group of black neighborhoods, that's where they settled after slavery ended. 0.84

00:33:39.000 It's like really immediate stuff, and it's a debt owed that this nation never paid.

00:33:43.000 I don't necessarily agree on reparations, but I think we need to clarify what that ultimately means.

00:33:47.000 But I will say, I thought this was a debate about the same issue.

00:33:50.000 I thought this was a debate about the same issue.

00:33:52.000 There's an issue of people who were enslaved.

00:33:55.000 Masters were debating for the first time.

00:33:56.000 Then they were released and they were not given any means to actually.

00:33:59.000 It was a debate about anti white education.

00:34:01.000 Now it's a debate about.

00:34:02.000 Here's why reparations are justified in people based on race.

00:34:05.000 Very taxable move.

00:34:07.000 The challenge I see, I suppose, is.

00:34:08.000 This is what we call a pro debate move.

00:34:09.000 You know, we've done a lot to amend the laws and change them.

00:34:11.000 For instance, you know, redlining and blockbusting have become illegal.

00:34:14.000 And now we're dealing with an ultimately, I believe, is a class issue.

00:34:17.000 Of course, racism still exists.

00:34:19.000 But anyway, I digress on that point.

00:34:20.000 What I wanted to get to is specifically on reparations.

00:34:24.000 What do you view reparations as, more importantly?

00:34:26.000 So, this is a big divide.

00:34:28.000 Some people think like cash payments.

00:34:30.000 I'm not a big fan of that.

00:34:31.000 It doesn't fix the problem, for one. 1.00

00:34:34.000 You can put money into that community, but there's been research done on how long a dollar stays in a black neighborhood as opposed to a white neighborhood. 0.83

00:34:41.000 And if a black neighborhood, all of the businesses are owned by corporate boards that are all majority white. 0.82

00:34:46.000 Eventually, the money filters out, and you get a very temporary living situation. 0.91

00:34:50.000 Not much like a Gestau.

00:34:52.000 I'm a big fan of structural reparations, not based on race, but rather based on targeting neighborhoods that need it the most. 0.73

00:34:57.000 Some of these neighborhoods are white.

00:35:00.000 I passed through some of them on my way out from Ronald Reagan Airport. 0.98

00:35:02.000 I can tell which parts of this country you can see it in the bones of the neighborhood. 0.54

00:35:07.000 And I think that a new reparation for the neighborhoods are black. 0.97

00:35:11.000 A new New Deal, even, would go a long way. 1.00

00:35:14.000 Well, so you're saying not even based on race? 0.83

00:35:16.000 I think that we should recognize that this is largely a racial project.

00:35:20.000 Because unfortunately, poverty and race are really intertwined in this country. 0.65

00:35:24.000 But in terms of applying it, I think that it would be much more healthy if we treated it like a collective effort to bring up the lowest sort of echelon of our economic. 0.98

00:35:32.000 So I want to ask you, Charlie, would you agree with a program that was in, how do I describe this?

00:35:40.000 Explained as reparations, but was not based on race, went to people based on class and neighborhood so that it could help Latinos and white people and Asians and everybody?

00:35:48.000 First of all, I'm against reparations.

00:35:50.000 I just don't like the word because it kind of implies this intergenerational guilt or.

00:35:56.000 A lot of this kind of ridiculous nationalism.

00:35:59.000 This is working. 0.75

00:36:00.000 What if we called it reparations mostly?

00:36:02.000 It was a new deal for the poor.

00:36:05.000 Steve Bannon salivating at his mouth.

00:36:08.000 You're saying that it's inherently racial.

00:36:08.000 How about that?

00:36:11.000 I really want to explore that with you because I think that's interesting.

00:36:13.000 I think you're wrong, but I think that's interesting where I think the racial thing is actually being used to distract people like you and I from actually talking about what's really happening.

00:36:21.000 There it is.

00:36:22.000 Which is a small group of people getting a lot richer while normal people get poor.

00:36:26.000 And I think the racial thing is being used as this distraction tool to throw a smokescreen in the middle while we're talking about something that we're never really going to have a consensus on when the true struggle right now is mainly economic.

00:36:39.000 Yeah, it's racial.

00:36:40.000 I think that applying reparations along racial lines runs into a bunch of really tough issues.

00:36:46.000 Which neighborhoods do you go by like blood?

00:36:48.000 Like, can you prove your great great grandfather was slave?

00:36:51.000 It gets very difficult.

00:36:52.000 The argument is maybe that would be the most directed argument.

00:36:54.000 It's not about how it's implemented, it's about generational reparations.

00:36:56.000 But in my mind, The reason why it's important to recognize the racial issue here is that the nature of class divides in this country is cut into racial policy prior to the Civil Rights Act.

00:37:09.000 The redlining that took place, lines which still remain not in law but in practice, led to very distinct.

00:37:15.000 I mean, sometimes, you know, one side of the highway is ultimately about the cause.

00:37:19.000 I mean, it legitimately was.

00:37:20.000 Can I just jump in real quick?

00:37:21.000 I'm from Chicago.

00:37:22.000 47th Street was split by race.

00:37:24.000 No joke. 1.00

00:37:25.000 This is longstanding effects on the city.

00:37:27.000 I didn't know Tim Pool was from Chicago.

00:37:29.000 No, and I grew up in LA and on either side of the five.

00:37:29.000 Just to point out.

00:37:32.000 Which cut through the city, I mean, or the 405, sorry.

00:37:36.000 Let me interject something, too, and I don't know if you're familiar.

00:37:38.000 We were actually told that we would be arrested from the south side of 47th.

00:37:43.000 If we crossed 47th, we would get arrested because the cops would pull up and say, You don't live in this neighborhood.

00:37:47.000 What are you doing here?

00:37:49.000 I'm from the suburbs of Chicago.

00:37:50.000 So I've heard stories like that.

00:37:52.000 It's very clear to say I'm not from Chicago.

00:37:55.000 I grew up in Beverly Hills, which is close, though, to West Hollywood and Koreatown, and the lines are clear as day.

00:38:02.000 The reason I say that is because of the construction project.

00:38:05.000 Is that because, um, but that's because of racial conflicts?

00:38:09.000 It was race riot, pretty much white riot, all the time, with the exception of some, I guess, edge cases.

00:38:13.000 Um, and they built highways of systemic racism, or the existence of systemic racism is something which is created by class by inertia. 0.68

00:38:22.000 It is not something you can explicitly legislate about. 0.94

00:38:25.000 I mean, obviously, nobody's out there passing laws like black people can't do this, that'd be silly. 0.83

00:38:29.000 But instead, the consequences of slavery and of second class citizenship for black people left unaddressed, a wound left to fester that unfortunately. 0.83

00:38:39.000 Can't really heal itself inertially unless we do something specific.

00:38:43.000 So, the issue with that argument is that the more that we intervened in the black community, it actually had the opposite effect. 0.55

00:38:50.000 And Thomas Sowell probably has done the best research and literature on this. 0.70

00:38:54.000 You can laugh all you want.

00:38:55.000 He's got a lot of credentials.

00:38:57.000 No, I wasn't trying to besmirch.

00:38:59.000 He's a very thoughtful thinker, and he actually lived through this, right? 0.67

00:39:02.000 He lived through the black renaissance in the 40s and the 50s, where redlining was a legitimate problem. 0.83

00:39:08.000 So was yellowlining, by the way, against Italians and against Jews. 0.96

00:39:12.000 Real.

00:39:12.000 Nowhere nearly as bad, but there were other degrees of discrimination based on ethnicity.

00:39:16.000 But Italians ran Chicago.

00:39:18.000 And the black community, especially the area really well in the south of Chicago, right near the Chicago stockyards, the black community almost had this rallying cry where they were being discriminated against everywhere and they kind of collectivized their purchasing power and they saw their incomes increase actually at a higher rate than white Americans in the 40s and 50s and early 60s.

00:39:40.000 You've heard this argument many times and you probably disagree with it, but it's just true that the moment that we all of a sudden de emphasized, Fathers being in the home and subsidized fatherlessness, we saw all these other trends increase.

00:39:54.000 More like the moment that.

00:39:56.000 Right before the Civil Rights Act passed.

00:39:58.000 About 24% of black children were born without a father.

00:39:58.000 Civil Rights Movement.

00:40:04.000 Now it's upwards of 70%. 0.99

00:40:06.000 Before the Civil Rights Act, it was good. 0.80

00:40:10.000 After it's bad. 0.78

00:40:11.000 So something has to explain that 40 point increase.

00:40:14.000 May I?

00:40:15.000 Yeah, just let me finish.

00:40:16.000 Oh, sure.

00:40:17.000 Yeah, and it's not necessarily that America got more racist.

00:40:21.000 It could be the cocaine thing, which is a common issue.

00:40:25.000 It could be operations of all these things.

00:40:27.000 But a 40 point increase, I would point to a culture of fatherlessness, really bad government run public schools, and then subsidizing behavior that isn't good.

00:40:37.000 So there are a few things that I can agree with you on.

00:40:40.000 First of all, having two people in your house to raise you is pretty much essential.

00:40:44.000 You absolutely agree with kids.

00:40:45.000 This is under. 0.69

00:40:47.000 Well, I don't believe in shaming single parents, even if their single parentedness is part of bad decision making. 0.97

00:40:53.000 I agree with that.

00:40:53.000 Good, you need it's in this economy, one parent, honestly.

00:40:57.000 Yeah, but with that being said, there has been research shown that the rate of black fatherlessness is somewhat over exaggerated, in large part because that number only applies to married fathers, so husbands raising their children. 0.70

00:41:11.000 It turns out when you account for unmarried black couples taking care of their kids, the numbers actually rise to those just, I think, just below white couples.

00:41:19.000 I think there was an article on that, I don't know if I remember, saw it in Vice, but it tracks back to some really big study that was done.

00:41:24.000 Back in 2016.

00:41:26.000 So that's one point.

00:41:27.000 But you are right.

00:41:29.000 There are perverse incentives.

00:41:30.000 For example, many welfare stipulations cut off with a shared income, which is only a few thousand dollars per year higher than the necessary cutoff for the single income, meaning that if you're a single mom, you can apply for the welfare just fine.

00:41:46.000 But then if you get married or otherwise file jointly, you go above the cap for welfare.

00:41:51.000 This is a horribly designed program, undeniably, and it incentivizes bad, destructive behavior.

00:41:57.000 The best thing that we can do, we Restructure the welfare system in this country.

00:42:02.000 Welfare is good for us.

00:42:03.000 I don't benefit from it.

00:42:03.000 It is.

00:42:04.000 Nope.

00:42:05.000 I don't think either of you benefit from it, I'm guessing.

00:42:08.000 But we do collectively downstream from the increased economic potential of people who now have the money to afford daycare, proper childcare, get an education.

00:42:18.000 In the long run, people in this country being richer enriches all of us.

00:42:22.000 It's a mutual project.

00:42:23.000 So we work on that.

00:42:24.000 We find out what works and what doesn't.

00:42:26.000 Which welfare programs function, which don't.

00:42:28.000 Which types of economic revitalization function and which don't.

00:42:31.000 I legitimately believe that if we apply this, This country has the bones to be just a permanent economic beacon on the hill, just like a shiny example to the rest of the world.

00:42:40.000 I agree with a lot of that.

00:42:42.000 The bigger issue with the racial thing is that when you put some of these factors in, even the present data, it doesn't pan out on racial lines, right? 0.96

00:42:50.000 And this is where I think you'll agree because you just said two parents in the home is a good thing, which we totally agree on. 0.90

00:42:56.000 I think that's the ideal.

00:42:57.000 Everything shows that that is something that we should push for.

00:43:00.000 Three parents, maybe.

00:43:01.000 What are we even talking about?

00:43:02.000 Oh, yeah, people's sons.

00:43:03.000 Yeah, polyamorous relationships.

00:43:04.000 Yeah.

00:43:05.000 Not a fan. 0.64

00:43:06.000 But I will say that if you look at the data from the government, a white child being raised by a single mother is less likely to succeed by 10 independently picked metrics than a black child being raised by a mother and a father. 0.63

00:43:21.000 And so maybe it's less about the skin color and more about the removal of parents and specifically fathers in the homes. 0.87

00:43:29.000 Now, if you want to talk about a domestic Marshall Plan to go put fathers back in the home regardless of skin color, I will sign up for that in a second. 0.82

00:43:36.000 With the right welfare, the right systems, I think people will. 0.89

00:43:39.000 Tend to their own families. 0.93

00:43:40.000 But that would then all of a sudden de emphasize what you said earlier, where it says it needs to be on racial lines, where I say, no, no, it needs to be on nuclear family lines.

00:43:46.000 Well, no, I think that the neighborhood revitalization should just be on like a sort of class assessment.

00:43:51.000 I think that when we recognize this problem, though, there are so many trends when it comes to poverty that involve the discussion of race, you know?

00:43:59.000 And there are some which do not.

00:44:00.000 There are some types of poverty, some effects that are just ubiquitous and equally felt.

00:44:05.000 But with regards to, say, you know, black people, the fact that they couldn't get loans to purchase homes for a very long time, I mean, there are people living who couldn't. 0.91

00:44:13.000 Do this.

00:44:14.000 The fact that they didn't benefit from the Marshall Plan, if I remember correctly, after World War II.

00:44:18.000 The Marshall Plan was Europe.

00:44:19.000 You're talking about the GI Bill.

00:44:20.000 Oh, sorry, the GI Bill.

00:44:20.000 My apologies.

00:44:21.000 Let me just point out all these white guys sitting here having a debate over the black community, huh?

00:44:25.000 I just think that there is a lot of economic inequality.

00:44:28.000 A lot of it's tied to race, but we don't need to turn this into some weird blood quantum thing that you're tracking down every black American and holding them under a microscope to see whether they get benefits.

00:44:37.000 No. 0.55

00:44:37.000 We just need to tend to our own. 0.55

00:44:39.000 This is where I want to.

00:44:40.000 We kind of got off critical race theory very quickly.

00:44:42.000 I forgot about that.

00:44:44.000 We're agreeing way too much, Tim.

00:44:45.000 All right.

00:44:46.000 Well, because this is. 1.00

00:44:48.000 The guys are fucking pedophiles. 1.00

00:44:49.000 Right? 1.00

00:44:50.000 You see these conversations around.

00:44:54.000 I don't know how you describe it because it's a variety of things.

00:44:56.000 Wokeism is typically a catch all term for some kind of ideology that involves anti racism, which involves critical race theory, critical race praxis.

00:45:04.000 And you're seeing in schools specific curriculums where they say to kids, like, we had a book here.

00:45:10.000 We had a book brought to us by one of these parents who's been going to these schools.

00:45:14.000 And it was an anti racist curriculum workbook where everyone asked.

00:45:17.000 So much of debate and radicalization.

00:45:19.000 You asked children why they thought that black children felt bad about their skin color.

00:45:22.000 And your message.

00:45:24.000 Charlie Kirk is in charge of another book where the whole debate is being framed by the fact that you're lying to me about race, and then there was a whiteness contract with a devil tail coming out of it. 0.84

00:45:33.000 Because the guy acts like he's an ankyl when he's pushing it. 0.69

00:45:36.000 It's just the whiteness devil tail thing. 0.95

00:45:37.000 A new New Deal liberalism.

00:45:40.000 With regards to that, what was it?

00:45:41.000 The why do you think black folk feel bad about their skin?

00:45:43.000 And I'll be careful because I don't have the book in front of me.

00:45:46.000 It was something to this effect.

00:45:48.000 It was a bunch of questions where it would ask you things like that and then ask you to answer.

00:45:52.000 What have you done to do with this?

00:45:53.000 It should be a debate about anti white curriculum. 0.60

00:45:56.000 It should be a debate about the Identity and the character of the nation. 0.77

00:45:58.000 I think these are conversations that turn into a debate about economics.

00:46:01.000 I wonder, with regards to what you're saying, do you know what grade level these were on?

00:46:07.000 I think she mentioned the woman, it was Asra?

00:46:11.000 Yeah, Asra.

00:46:12.000 I think fourth grade.

00:46:13.000 Yeah, that's what I heard.

00:46:13.000 But I got to be honest, like the anti racist one didn't have any pictures or anything.

00:46:18.000 It was just questions.

00:46:19.000 And I think she mentioned it was in a third grade.

00:46:23.000 What was it called?

00:46:24.000 What was the book called about the whiteness contract?

00:46:26.000 The one you said was indefensible. 0.76

00:46:27.000 That one was like a little girl who looked to be about like eight years old.

00:46:29.000 Yeah, I.

00:46:30.000 I saw that online.

00:46:31.000 Can I ask a question?

00:46:32.000 So let's go to just piece, you know, issue by issue.

00:46:34.000 Ibram X. Kendi, who's kind of one of the, you know, archangels of the wokeism movement.

00:46:40.000 I'm beloved to hear that in the minds of conservatives and liberals.

00:46:43.000 So Ibram X. Kendi, and I'm paraphrasing, and you guys can pick up the quote, is that we need discrimination today because all these people are just like a.

00:46:51.000 That's the essence of the quote, right, Tim?

00:46:53.000 Yeah, he said the only solution for past discrimination is present discrimination, and the only solution for present discrimination is future discrimination.

00:46:59.000 So I find that to be reprehensible.

00:47:02.000 I think it's misguided.

00:47:02.000 What say you?

00:47:03.000 It's an interview.

00:47:04.000 Because I don't believe if there was some God who could just distribute all resources in a perfectly ordained way and did so at the snap of a finger, then maybe that would be a decent argument.

00:47:13.000 In the real world, we have to go through politics, and any kind of discriminatory treatment under any circumstances, no matter how well intentioned, is going to have adverse effects.

00:47:20.000 So, with regard to what he said, there is a very charitable interpretation, and that charitable interpretation is discriminatory practices in the past necessitate favorable practices today, a way of bringing people up.

00:47:32.000 My reparations argument I mean, the poor in this country have always had it bad, at least.

00:47:37.000 Worse than they could otherwise.

00:47:38.000 That is essentially a version of that argument.

00:47:40.000 Preferable treatment towards the poor.

00:47:42.000 We do this with welfare because there are systemic barriers keeping them from full participation.

00:47:47.000 Along racial lines, I don't even know what that would look like.

00:47:50.000 I don't even know how that would look good. 1.00

00:47:52.000 I'm not a big fan of the fact that.

00:47:53.000 He wrote an amendment, right, called the Anti Racist Amendment to the Constitution.

00:47:57.000 It's not being considered anytime soon, where it would be preference.

00:48:00.000 You'll see.

00:48:01.000 Biden will get it.

00:48:02.000 Yeah.

00:48:03.000 Based on his skin color, there would be some sort of accommodation based just by the melanin content in your skin.

00:48:10.000 There is one thing I want to say.

00:48:11.000 This is common in upper academia, and I know Idrim sometimes gets brought into non academic discussions, which I don't consider myself an academic, so I'm including myself in that.

00:48:20.000 But sometimes I think these are fun to discuss, these ideas.

00:48:24.000 What I noticed, at least in some of the classes that I took, the higher end classes, you know, was that sometimes when you were presented ideas, they were presented not to have you agree with them, but rather to incentivize the greatest discussion.

00:48:35.000 For example, I wasn't an economist, but I did learn about Karl Marx.

00:48:39.000 Now, not many professors are actual Marxists, unfortunately.

00:48:44.000 So when Marx was brought up in that context, it wasn't like, here's what you need to know, here's what you should believe.

00:48:50.000 It was more, here are some ideas, radical and agreeable.

00:48:54.000 What do you think about them?

00:48:56.000 And when I look at what Kendi has written, I think.

00:48:59.000 Keep spamming Nick Fuentes and change up the message so it doesn't get caught in the spam.

00:49:03.000 I do enjoy the product.

00:49:05.000 Keep spamming based Nick Fuentes or debate Nick Fuentes or just my name.

00:49:09.000 But keep it going.

00:49:10.000 Keep it going strong.

00:49:11.000 That's a great.

00:49:12.000 That's a great segue, if I could go.

00:49:12.000 Brutish response.

00:49:14.000 So, the next question then is Should we be teaching first and second and third graders to be hyper conscious aware of race all the time?

00:49:21.000 I think that's destructive.

00:49:23.000 I think it goes against the American promise of e pluribus unum.

00:49:26.000 The problem isn't racialism, it's anti white hate.

00:49:30.000 And yes, Martin Luther King Jr. was a misguided.

00:49:31.000 That's not what e pluribus unum means.

00:49:33.000 But he was a very radical socialist in some regard, but he really hit it perfectly when he said that this was the ideal of.

00:49:33.000 He's a cool guy.

00:49:42.000 The American system.

00:49:44.000 No.

00:49:44.000 Do you see any downsides to getting three year olds just caring, not three year olds, third graders caring about the color of people's skin all the time?

00:49:50.000 Race.

00:49:51.000 Well, I think depending on their environment, they might already, whether they know it or not, in very implicit and subtle ways.

00:49:57.000 We know from tests done, for example, on like little, little kids, like four year olds or whatever, that some elements of implicit racial bias already infect their thinking.

00:50:05.000 Now, that isn't a moral judgment.

00:50:07.000 We are all flawed beings.

00:50:08.000 We live and we die.

00:50:10.000 Look at all the Nick Flenses.

00:50:10.000 Hey, look at that.

00:50:11.000 Keep it going.

00:50:12.000 Keep it going.

00:50:13.000 But I think conversations about those things can be valuable.

00:50:16.000 I don't believe we live in a.

00:50:17.000 Save your super chats for me, though.

00:50:19.000 Save the super chats for me.

00:50:21.000 But keep going in the live chat.

00:50:22.000 Free ones.

00:50:22.000 I'm ignorant to evident problems.

00:50:25.000 Now, to what extent would you be comfortable bringing a racial consciousness to third graders?

00:50:32.000 For me, very little to none.

00:50:34.000 As don't care about it, de emphasize it, look at the spirit, the soul, the conduct, and the character of the human being. 0.97

00:50:39.000 Their skin color means nothing. 0.83

00:50:41.000 Not saying that you should start to emphasize, organize, What people look like because, therefore, it means something that we're going to tell you. 0.87

00:50:50.000 A great example is that this is the textbook definition of stereotyping, right? 0.57

00:50:55.000 Is that if you see a black person, you don't know their history.

00:50:58.000 You don't know if they're the son of a Nigerian billionaire.

00:51:01.000 You don't know if they're an immigrant from Turks and Caicos.

00:51:03.000 And you don't know if they're the ninth generation descendant of slaves, right?

00:51:07.000 There's been two million blacks that have come to America legally through the immigration process since 1980. 0.96

00:51:12.000 I think it can get.

00:51:13.000 So, this sort of hyper fixation on race, and I want to keep on getting back to this because I'm just curious do you think this is actually helpful when.

00:51:22.000 When there actually might be stuff that 90% of the country agrees on, do you think this actually might be a smokescreen tactic?

00:51:27.000 Well, it really is not being taught.

00:51:30.000 So here are some things I obviously don't want taught.

00:51:32.000 One group is better than another. 1.00

00:51:33.000 Race has been salient for 400 years, for as long as you've been on this continent. 0.99

00:51:38.000 That is being taught in some schools.

00:51:39.000 There are some schools that do that.

00:51:41.000 And while I would look to see their curriculum mended, I don't, again, I just don't want to implicitly agree with a state ban.

00:51:49.000 I would see adjustments done.

00:51:50.000 But there are some things that I think could be done well, for example.

00:51:53.000 Say you're teaching about very basic early history, you know?

00:51:56.000 This is where I wanted to get to.

00:51:57.000 It's important.

00:51:57.000 Yeah, okay.

00:51:58.000 So here are some things about America's founding that I like.

00:52:01.000 One of the first practical liberal democracies, glory of the Republic.

00:52:05.000 Folks had nice hair back then.

00:52:06.000 Not democracy, but a republic.

00:52:07.000 Right.

00:52:07.000 Well, I mean, you know, they're not mutually exclusive.

00:52:09.000 And we, of course, did more to fulfill the promise of democracy with time. 0.60

00:52:14.000 But obviously, when America was founded, it was a slave state.

00:52:18.000 One in every six people in America at that time was human property.

00:52:22.000 Can I ask you a question?

00:52:23.000 Sure.

00:52:23.000 How many states had abolished slavery by the time the Constitution was ratified?

00:52:27.000 Well, I don't know the exact number.

00:52:29.000 Nine out of 13.

00:52:29.000 That's not a slave country.

00:52:31.000 Well, then you could say it was a Confederacy with portions that were slaves. 1.00

00:52:34.000 I think that's better said.

00:52:35.000 Nine out of 13 had already abolished.

00:52:37.000 There was a sunset moratorium for slavery in the Constitution.

00:52:40.000 So this could. 0.97

00:52:41.000 Vermont abolished slavery in 1777.

00:52:43.000 We were on the way to eradication.

00:52:45.000 We were not a slave country.

00:52:45.000 Well, hold on.

00:52:46.000 I mean, I'll add one thing.

00:52:47.000 We were on the way, but then like 80 years later, it was still abolished.

00:52:51.000 So the question is why, right?

00:52:52.000 That's a really important question.

00:52:54.000 Economics, I understand.

00:52:55.000 Well, yeah, so Cotton Gin and John C. Calhoun.

00:52:58.000 Well, happy to go through that.

00:52:59.000 But there was actually a grievance in the Declaration of Independence, specifically that the Crown had enslaved people.

00:53:06.000 The first draft.

00:53:07.000 Yeah, in the first draft from Thomas Jefferson.

00:53:09.000 The Crown had enslaved people who had done nothing to offend the Crown, brought them to the States, and then were offering them the freedom that was stolen from them to wage war against the colonists who had grievances.

00:53:20.000 It's an effective strategy. 0.58

00:53:21.000 The Union did it too. 0.80

00:53:22.000 They promised the slaves when they moved southward. 0.88

00:53:24.000 Right.

00:53:25.000 Jefferson took that out, and he did it because they felt, and this is according to historians.

00:53:31.000 That without, I think it was South Carolina and Georgia, they would not have been able to win the Revolutionary War.

00:53:36.000 And so they had to remove that, hoping they would stay in. 0.67

00:53:39.000 Now, the reality is, let me just, I'll just say one more point.

00:53:43.000 They thought they were going to lose anyway.

00:53:44.000 They really did.

00:53:45.000 They didn't think they could go up against the greatest empire in the world at the time.

00:53:49.000 So it's kind of unfortunate, I think.

00:53:51.000 An important factor here is that I believe it was the British Empire, actually, 1833 had abolished slavery in all of its territories.

00:53:58.000 And it took the U.S. a little bit longer to do so.

00:54:01.000 But I want to make sure I stress this issue for the start of the country was.

00:54:06.000 Contentious and ultimately led to violence because, from the beginning, as Charlie pointed out, most of the states had already abolished this, so it was like people were ready to fight from the beginning.

00:54:15.000 Well, I just want to say to that my understanding of the founding of America isn't as simplistic as the founding fathers were evil because X or Y.

00:54:22.000 I recognize, of course, that there are incredible complexities to those issues.

00:54:27.000 You'll never miss an opportunity.

00:54:28.000 Also, I'm not a historian.

00:54:29.000 There are probably tons of things out there I don't even know that might change my opinion in the future.

00:54:32.000 But with that being said, while I recognize there were fine.

00:54:38.000 Bodied, hearted, and souled Americans who recognized slavery was a moral aberration from the get go, one in every six Americans was owned. 0.55

00:54:46.000 And while that may have been constrained to some of the states, it was still ultimately under the purview of the federal government to make decisions with regards to the legality and constitutionality of that.

00:54:56.000 Now, some people they get really offensive in this conversation.

00:54:59.000 And I'm saying you guys, but some people they do.

00:55:02.000 And I think it's because they think I'm assigning some kind of moral worth to them now or to the country now or making some kind of broad prescriptive statement.

00:55:09.000 I'm not.

00:55:10.000 The only thing I'm saying is when you're teaching history to a bunch of kids, you know, you have to teach it all.

00:55:15.000 At least you have to teach the basic pointers. 1.00

00:55:17.000 And for black Americans, The history of this country has been less than favorable. 0.60

00:55:21.000 So I think that in the context of that discussion, saying, and to this day, we still have some problems with race.

00:55:27.000 There are some legacies of slavery that still affect black people, and we're working on it today, something like that.

00:55:33.000 That's a kind of racialization that I'm in favor of because it doesn't encourage stereotyping, it doesn't encourage discrimination, it just encourages a base awareness of some serious problems.

00:55:43.000 So, but that's not happening, right?

00:55:45.000 Is that largely what we're seeing through school districts like Chicago and in Washington, D.C., and The entire California school system, representing 10,000 schools and 6 million students.

00:55:57.000 I've seen the documents on those.

00:55:59.000 Yeah, is that it doesn't have that kind of nuance and complexity that you just presented, right?

00:56:04.000 Where it's, let me just say this, is that part of the kind of archangel triumphant of the wokeism coalition is Nicole Hannah Jones, Robin D'Angelo, and Ibram X. Kendi.

00:56:13.000 And Nicole Hannah Jones, in particular, right?

00:56:16.000 The all triumphant of the wokeism coalition.

00:56:19.000 She heretically says that America was founded on something.

00:56:22.000 About what everyone knows is going on.

00:56:23.000 And so part of it.

00:56:24.000 I'm okay with that.

00:56:25.000 But it's just not true.

00:56:26.000 It depends on what you mean by founded on.

00:56:28.000 She defines this.

00:56:29.000 She says the founding fathers were in favor of it.

00:56:31.000 Not true.

00:56:32.000 George Washington wasn't.

00:56:33.000 John Adams wasn't.

00:56:34.000 John Quincy Adams wasn't.

00:56:36.000 Thomas Jefferson even signed a moratorium on new slaves coming into the United States.

00:56:39.000 Ben Franklin chaired an anti slavery convention in 1775.

00:56:43.000 None of these guys were writing expositionally how wonderful slavery was.

00:56:46.000 Well, this isn't being taught to third graders, right?

00:56:47.000 The 1619 project's a little New York op ed.

00:56:50.000 No, no, no, it's not.

00:56:51.000 See, that's where you're wrong.

00:56:53.000 The 1619 project's being implemented as school district curriculum in thousands of school districts across the country.

00:56:58.000 That's true.

00:57:00.000 It's not just like a Podcast.

00:57:01.000 This is curriculum.

00:57:02.000 Right.

00:57:02.000 There are principles of the 1619 Project that I think are defensible.

00:57:05.000 First of all, we as Americans tend to think of the founding of our country as its legal founding, you know? 0.95

00:57:11.000 But the legal founding of the United States didn't really mean much for a slave. 0.60

00:57:14.000 I mean, it really didn't matter that much for the peasantry of the time, no matter what.

00:57:18.000 See, that's where I disagree.

00:57:19.000 Because so when was the first state to abolish slavery?

00:57:23.000 Vermont in 1777.

00:57:25.000 Why?

00:57:25.000 Well, I mean, for the slaves.

00:57:26.000 Because they were inspired by the Declaration of Independence.

00:57:28.000 Things started to change in that year.

00:57:30.000 Right.

00:57:31.000 But the slaves that then continued to be slaves would have been in the states that didn't make That choice, right?

00:57:35.000 Which were largely in southern states.

00:57:36.000 Yeah.

00:57:37.000 Well, that's what I mean.

00:57:38.000 Sorry, I didn't mean to miss out on the particulars there.

00:57:40.000 The only point that I'm making is that depending on whose lineage you follow, depending on the narrative that you tell, this is a very postmodern idea.

00:57:47.000 And I would like to consider myself charitable to postmodernism the idea that there are many ways you can describe the human experience, which I think we all believe to some extent.

00:57:56.000 Depending on who you follow, you get very different ideas on what America is, when America was founded, not in a legal sense, but in a conceptual sense.

00:58:04.000 And who today.

00:58:07.000 Holds the birthrights to which they were entitled.

00:58:09.000 And these conversations should be had.

00:58:12.000 They're worthwhile conversations to have.

00:58:14.000 I've seen some of the curriculums in these schools.

00:58:16.000 I find some of them a little bit objectionable.

00:58:18.000 But to be perfectly clear, I've found school curriculums objectionable for ages.

00:58:22.000 About half of Americans believe in the Lost Cause myth, the idea that the North started the Civil War and it was over states' rights or whatever.

00:58:30.000 That's believed by a large number of Americans.

00:58:32.000 There are textbooks put out by Pearson in Texas that have the same truth.

00:58:35.000 There is some truth to that, by the way.

00:58:36.000 Just so we're clear.

00:58:38.000 I'm happy to go through Civil War history.

00:58:40.000 I just want to say, I have long had problems with many of the ways children are taught concepts in this country.

00:58:47.000 None of them have made me want to get my state legislators to just outright ban all of these ideas.

00:58:52.000 Well, so let me make two points.

00:58:53.000 First, the 1619 Project is schools.

00:58:56.000 Newsweek reports that U.S. schools have openly taught the 1619 Project for months.

00:59:00.000 This is back in September.

00:59:01.000 We've got Education Next, the 1619 Project enters classrooms.

00:59:04.000 We have the Pulitzer Center, the 1619 Project curriculum.

00:59:08.000 Here you will find resources for teaching 1619 in your schools.

00:59:12.000 Talk about that. 1.00

00:59:13.000 I don't know if I have one more source.

00:59:15.000 Then we move to the.

00:59:16.000 Do they read the full thing in class?

00:59:17.000 It's not credible.

00:59:19.000 It's dense reading.

00:59:20.000 It's not.

00:59:20.000 It's not full.

00:59:20.000 It is.

00:59:21.000 And then lawmakers push to ban 1619 from schools. 0.98

00:59:24.000 So it's there. 1.00

00:59:25.000 It is.

00:59:25.000 And so let me tell you why people like myself are pushing for the bans of the 1619 Project.

00:59:31.000 Is that, first of all, it's just not true.

00:59:33.000 It is not even charitably, in the most charitable reading, to use a word that you used, even remotely fair to the ethos or the founding of the country.

00:59:42.000 It doesn't.

00:59:43.000 It doesn't go to original source documents.

00:59:45.000 It doesn't go to quotations.

00:59:47.000 And it meanders through generalizations and very heavy emphasis on emotion.

00:59:52.000 Can I ask something, though?

00:59:53.000 Sure, go ahead.

00:59:54.000 Is this not being presented as an alternate perspective as opposed to replacing the entirety of our curriculum?

01:00:01.000 No, it is.

01:00:01.000 And this is an important thing, which is what is education, right?

01:00:04.000 So is education where we're supposed to, for third, fourth, and fifth, and sixth graders, open up every single bad idea that's ever been discovered and have kids choose?

01:00:12.000 Or are we trying to lead them towards something, lead them towards having better developed character?

01:00:17.000 Lead them towards trying to find objective truth.

01:00:19.000 Moral.

01:00:20.000 We want to make them moral.

01:00:21.000 I agree.

01:00:22.000 And so the question is, what is good?

01:00:23.000 What is evil?

01:00:24.000 Well, we don't know a line is crooked unless we have a straight line to compare it to.

01:00:27.000 Well, you know what I think on this, don't you?

01:00:29.000 I actually don't.

01:00:31.000 The narrative we've told about the founding of this country has for a long time been deeply whitewashed.

01:00:36.000 We talk about the founding fathers like they're heroes, and there is heroism in their lives, no denying that.

01:00:42.000 And we often gloss over many of the horrors of this country.

01:00:45.000 There are things that we've done, for example. 1.00

01:00:47.000 Take it away, Vosh. 0.99

01:00:47.000 We would use as. 0.99

01:00:49.000 An incentive to forever despise other countries that nobody's even taught about. 0.65

01:00:54.000 Like one I read recently, for example, was that we did mass chemical bathings and I believe it was sterilizations of Hispanic people at the beginning of the 20th century moving up past the southern border because there were like these militias forming in towns near the border and they just did it because they had the de facto support of the local government as a way of discouraging their movement up.

01:01:15.000 Now, the numbers involved in that are significant and I feel like, well, that's maybe not great for fourth graders.

01:01:22.000 There could be more work done to talk about the faults with this country in addition to eulogizing its.

01:01:28.000 The question is, what's the goal, though, right?

01:01:30.000 Is the goal to try to have young people graduate by the time of high school to be skeptical, apprehensive, and not very proud of the country, or eventually tell a true and patriotic story where you have people graduating that are thankful and have gratitude?

01:01:45.000 That's the purpose of education when it comes through.

01:01:47.000 Gratitude is not the purpose of education.

01:01:49.000 Well, I think gratitude's a moral necessity.

01:01:51.000 No, you should be grateful for the people in your life, but I will never be grateful to the state.

01:01:56.000 I'm not that much of a collector.

01:01:57.000 Well, I'm not a state.

01:01:58.000 Are you not thankful that you live in America?

01:02:00.000 I'm thankful of the things that make my life easier.

01:02:03.000 I'm not white to well off parents, and today I enjoy many of the benefits of having really responsible and attentive society.

01:02:03.000 No, I'm not.

01:02:10.000 Are you thankful you have constitutional rights that are protected by government, given to you by God?

01:02:13.000 But do you know how those constitutional rights came about? 1.00

01:02:16.000 They were fought for by whiny bitches like me who were never satisfied with what they were already doing. 1.00

01:02:20.000 They were granted by God, protected in the. 1.00

01:02:22.000 Constitution. 0.91

01:02:23.000 They were fought for by whiny, same as the 14th and 15th Amendments. 0.64

01:02:26.000 Everything that's come since, we fought for them, and it is discontentedness that leads us to fight. 0.51

01:02:31.000 I'm thankful for their efforts, as am I. There's some gratitude.

01:02:34.000 Sure, I'm grateful to them.

01:02:36.000 But patriotism, I'm grateful to what people in America do.

01:02:41.000 But America is a concept.

01:02:42.000 It's been used to do a lot of good and a lot of harm.

01:02:44.000 It's a home.

01:02:45.000 Well, a home can be.

01:02:47.000 I mean, in the broadest sense.

01:02:48.000 But I know what my home is.

01:02:49.000 I know where my family lives, and I'm loyal to them.

01:02:52.000 When it comes to this country, though, this is a political and economic level.

01:02:55.000 I have only one concern, and it's that the people in this country live the best lives possible.

01:03:00.000 Also outside the country, but I live here.

01:03:03.000 This is my backyard.

01:03:05.000 And When I want people graduating from high school, I don't want them to feel this sense of contentedness.

01:03:11.000 Contentedness is the death of activism for all that's good.

01:03:14.000 And activists have always been, you're an activist in your own way, as am I, have always been the forerunners for good.

01:03:21.000 They've done a lot of damage too.

01:03:22.000 Sure, they have.

01:03:23.000 But we make the world move.

01:03:24.000 And I want to get people, I want to get kids interested in the flaws in this country because that teaches them to grow up and care about them so hard they fix them.

01:03:33.000 This is a great piece of disagreement.

01:03:35.000 We have clarity, not agreement, which is obviously what we want, where.

01:03:40.000 I think that we should try to be developing and graduating kids with strong character that want to appreciate and protect a country and to try to be active against forces that wish to deconstruct it.

01:03:52.000 Your goal, and we're just not going to persuade each other, is that you want to try to graduate activists that know the flaws and are willing to mobilize to try to fix them or to undo whatever system might be effectuating.

01:04:04.000 Is that fair?

01:04:05.000 As long as it's responsible and effective, yeah.

01:04:07.000 There are ways to do progressive.

01:04:09.000 Of course, I'm a progressive, so I'll say it's good by default, but there are ways to do it poorly.

01:04:12.000 I disagree with people on the left constantly.

01:04:14.000 Either over issues of actual speech or just not presenting as compelling or engaging.

01:04:20.000 I always find something to disagree with people on.

01:04:22.000 But what is Charlie Kirk articulating?

01:04:24.000 But with all that being said, it's weak.

01:04:26.000 I have to wonder is it not the prerogative, and I'm not a scientist to you, of tyrants to make sure that children who graduate from these schools find no fault in the nations they're taught to love?

01:04:40.000 I'm not saying no fault, but you could be thankful for something and you can have.

01:04:45.000 A holistic view of something and understand that there were stumbles and there were missteps while also being pretty freaking proud of that something.

01:04:52.000 How exciting!

01:04:53.000 No!

01:04:54.000 What if there are current problems, like today, you know?

01:04:56.000 We should talk about those.

01:04:57.000 Like we already talked about fatherlessness, government overreach.

01:05:00.000 Tim, you want to interject?

01:05:01.000 Oh, no, I think it's interesting to me.

01:05:05.000 Charlie Kirk just defers to everybody else because he doesn't know what he wants to say.

01:05:09.000 I think it was on Twitter they said that when they would defeat.

01:05:12.000 He refuses to occupy space or time.

01:05:15.000 Or the Tulsa bombings and things like that.

01:05:16.000 And that's proof, or that shows that our schools are not teaching.

01:05:20.000 And I was taught about the trail of tears, we were taught about westward expansion, we were taught about the violation of treaties.

01:05:29.000 I was taught a lot as well.

01:05:30.000 Yeah, we were taught a lot about that.

01:05:31.000 When we learn history, what we're really learning is a story.

01:05:34.000 I think it's called historiography.

01:05:36.000 Obviously, when we're just looking at the facts of history, I mean, what is it, data and sheets, you know, wrote transcriptions of things people have said?

01:05:42.000 Nobody teaches that.

01:05:43.000 You teach the story.

01:05:45.000 And the story we've told for a long time has bowled over a lot of problems I think we should work to fix.

01:05:49.000 Do we want people to be thankful?

01:05:51.000 Sure, I don't want to stop teaching kids the undeniable things they do.

01:05:58.000 The point of a debate is not to build consistency.

01:06:00.000 Every day that I worked before I was a YouTuber, I thanked union activists back during the turn of the 20th century who gave us the five day work week, the 40 hour work week, who ensured that we had proper standards for lunch breaks and what have you.

01:06:16.000 And they fought and they were whiny, and I'm sure a lot of them had really bad ideas besides the worker activism.

01:06:22.000 But we all benefited from that.

01:06:24.000 Do you ever think that as an activist, as a progressive, a libertarian socialist, is there ever a point where the activism actually does much more harm than good and the preservation of what already exists actually should be desirable? 1.00

01:06:39.000 I would say that's the case with black separatists. 0.95

01:06:41.000 There are some people in this country, not all of them are black, of course, but who believe that the racial problems between white and black Americans are irreparable and that the best solution would be for black Americans to leave or at the very least to form separate enclaves within the state. 0.83

01:06:55.000 And that's nothing new, just so you know.

01:06:57.000 I don't think that's what Charlie asked.

01:07:00.000 He asked you if there.

01:07:00.000 Do you want to rephrase that?

01:07:02.000 Oh, sorry if I misunderstood.

01:07:04.000 You were in the general area, but I guess the question is a heavy emphasis on activism for activism's sake, mobilizing for grievances.

01:07:12.000 What if actually what we have as a constitutional order is actually pretty awesome?

01:07:17.000 Let me ask Do you think there are things worth, systems in place in the United States that are worth defending?

01:07:25.000 That's a better way to word it.

01:07:26.000 Yes.

01:07:26.000 Do you believe that there are systems in place in the United States that we should defend and preserve?

01:07:30.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:07:32.000 I mean, there are ideas.

01:07:34.000 For example, the concept of democracy, the concept of fair representation, the idea that anybody could have a chance if they make it here.

01:07:41.000 These are ideas that I think are almost sacrosanct.

01:07:43.000 I mean, I think they're almost existentially worthwhile.

01:07:48.000 Now, to what extent does this country live up to those promises?

01:07:50.000 In some ways, it does so better than most other countries, sometimes any other country.

01:07:54.000 In other ways, it's not.

01:07:55.000 We're just watching the Vosh stream.

01:07:56.000 How much of this has been Vosh?

01:07:58.000 If you were to, like, do high speed scrubbing.

01:08:02.000 And what percentage of it would be Vosh? 1.00

01:08:04.000 It is here. 1.00

01:08:05.000 The idea remains valuable to me, but I can't help but think.

01:08:07.000 Maybe we could make it better.

01:08:09.000 No, whoops!

01:08:09.000 Wait, whoop!

01:08:10.000 Hang on.

01:08:11.000 I'm just trying to illustrate.

01:08:13.000 If you scrub through, it's literally all vlog.

01:08:18.000 So, what I'm trying to caution you about is that the people pushing CRT and the whole debate, they don't have the same sort of nuance that you do.

01:08:27.000 These are revolutionaries that want to tear down the system.

01:08:30.000 But I am as well.

01:08:31.000 I just think that everything has its time.

01:08:32.000 You just had kind of a little bit more of a moderated answer.

01:08:35.000 But But how often do actual critical race theorists come on all of the talk show circuits that end up?

01:08:42.000 I mean, we've had some.

01:08:43.000 I mean, Joy Reid advocated for it, but the actual scholars.

01:08:46.000 They're running Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman.

01:08:49.000 They're running the United States military.

01:08:52.000 They're assigning these ideas.

01:08:54.000 Let's use that.

01:08:54.000 Again, wokeism.

01:08:55.000 No, with Robin DiAngelo and the federal.

01:09:00.000 The military is woke!

01:09:01.000 I'm a big fan of her largely because I think her language incites a lot of negative discourse.

01:09:06.000 I think that it's bad for publication.

01:09:08.000 Maybe good in an academic setting.

01:09:09.000 So, not good to teach generals that?

01:09:11.000 For some random people at a business?

01:09:13.000 Absolutely not.

01:09:14.000 No.

01:09:14.000 To generals in the military.

01:09:16.000 Keep standing next to the military.

01:09:16.000 Oh, yeah, sure.

01:09:17.000 Well, the big problem that I have. 1.00

01:09:19.000 But keep in mind, that's not wokists running these things. 1.00

01:09:22.000 What happens is this, and put pretty simply, the majority of Americans broadly are progressive on these issues, support BLM, all these sort of broad cultural markers. 0.92

01:09:32.000 So, corporations and other large entities think we need to avoid a cancellation, we need to appeal to the business interests of this country.

01:09:40.000 We need to do something to ingratiate ourselves to the majority opinion.

01:09:43.000 So oftentimes, it's not about ingratiation.

01:09:45.000 They manufacture the majority opinion.

01:09:48.000 They run the media.

01:09:49.000 They pay them $300,000.

01:09:51.000 Like Robin D'Angelo.

01:09:52.000 Like Robin D'Angelo.

01:09:52.000 The public opinionist.

01:09:53.000 Come on over there.

01:09:54.000 It's created, it's catalyzed, manufactured.

01:09:57.000 They're not reacting to public opinion.

01:10:01.000 They're creating public opinion.

01:10:03.000 Don't be racist.

01:10:04.000 Like, come on, be cool. 1.00

01:10:06.000 No, she has to go all out.

01:10:08.000 And what you get are these cringy, like the Coca Cola PowerPoint.

01:10:11.000 Yeah.

01:10:11.000 Where you get, look, Some of the things there are defensible.

01:10:14.000 Does systemic racism exist?

01:10:15.000 Sure.

01:10:15.000 Should we be aware of the concept of implicit bias?

01:10:19.000 Yeah, fine.

01:10:20.000 I love when people ask themselves easy questions and then answer them. 0.87

01:10:22.000 But some of the language in there really made it seem like she wanted white people to feel a little bit bad.

01:10:29.000 And I don't want white people to feel bad.

01:10:30.000 I don't want anyone to feel guilty over who they are.

01:10:32.000 What percentage of this country do you think supports Black Lives Matter?

01:10:35.000 That's more based than anything else.

01:10:37.000 After George Floyd's murder, it was something like 71%.

01:10:41.000 I think since then it's trended downwards.

01:10:43.000 Has it gone below 50?

01:10:45.000 Yes.

01:10:45.000 Oh, wow.

01:10:46.000 Well, it depends on where you go.

01:10:48.000 I use Civics.

01:10:50.000 They have 237,458 responses from April 1st, 2018 to August 2nd, 2021.

01:10:55.000 I think they do a pretty good job, but there's always, I know, a challenge with polls and whether they, you know, their system.

01:11:00.000 The peak support was 53% after the death of George Floyd, and opposition actually declined fairly steadily.

01:11:07.000 There was no major spike in opposition.

01:11:09.000 There was a major spike in support after the death of George Floyd.

01:11:11.000 However, there was a rapid escalation of opposition.

01:11:15.000 According to Civics, current support for Black Lives Matter is 45%, and opposition is 42%.

01:11:20.000 Those numbers are really different.

01:11:21.000 I might have looked at Pew Research.

01:11:23.000 I couldn't tell about the methodology that was more valid.

01:11:25.000 Well, and it's actually.

01:11:26.000 So innocent.

01:11:27.000 The filler word.

01:11:28.000 Suddenly not so smug.

01:11:29.000 Very unpopular.

01:11:30.000 So I would look at it differently.

01:11:32.000 I think these corporations have been infiltrated by highly motivated activists, which you've said the education system, the goal should be to create activists that have really bad ideas.

01:11:42.000 And I think they're putting America on a trajectory that I think you are even concerned about.

01:11:48.000 Because you said that there are some sacrosanct ideas.

01:11:50.000 He's not.

01:11:50.000 He's one of them.

01:11:51.000 The sacrosanct ideas are general fair representation.

01:11:55.000 Wokeism does not believe in that.

01:11:56.000 Well, no, that's not true.

01:11:57.000 I would say, I mean, I don't know what you mean by wokeism, but I think that there are plenty of progressives.

01:12:01.000 You could find it, which is that kind of idea of judging people based on skin color, discrimination.

01:12:06.000 Now, I would say that what I've advocated for represents the supermajority of progressive opinions.

01:12:11.000 And what we're largely seeing is a couple of really bad examples being brought to the limelight because they're most objectionable.

01:12:17.000 Sure.

01:12:18.000 To be fair, though, I mean, you might have these very, very well thought out views of things.

01:12:23.000 You could say, oh, that's indefensible.

01:12:25.000 Of course, I don't want to be unreasonable. 0.60

01:12:26.000 But when you get Mark Milley coming out and talking about white rage, it's like, oh, I thought his speech was lovely. 0.68

01:12:31.000 It reminded me of those old Chinese philosopher generals.

01:12:36.000 But you have people quitting the military over this stuff because they feel like they're.

01:12:40.000 I've actually spoken with people who retired because they've been discriminated against on racial lines they don't like.

01:12:46.000 And one guy I met said he was planning a lifelong career in the military and immediately got out because they implemented these policies of white racial trainings. 0.52

01:12:53.000 They were told that the symbols of America are no longer allowed to be displayed in private because they're extremists.

01:12:59.000 In the military?

01:13:00.000 In the military, yes.

01:13:01.000 Okay, well, I can't speak to any of that.

01:13:02.000 I haven't looked into the particulars of that.

01:13:05.000 The only thing I want to say is that it feels like with Robert D'Angelo, we've seen this pattern in the United States now.

01:13:10.000 I don't think it has anything to do with infiltration.

01:13:11.000 This is the consequence of gatekeeping.

01:13:13.000 This is a debate just between Dave Rubin.

01:13:16.000 They know there's some broader political, social, cultural trend happening, and they think, who's someone we could get?

01:13:23.000 And if you look up racial sensitivity training on Google or anywhere else, some names are going to pop up, and we know which one comes up first, and they just hire that person because they've got money and they need to spend it before the end of the Quarter so their budget doesn't get cut.

01:13:35.000 Do you think that it should be how's the right way to phrase this?

01:13:41.000 If a corporation were to tell, say, white employees that they had inherent characteristics based on their race or that they should undergo some kind of course or class based on their race, should businesses be allowed to do that?

01:13:55.000 You mean legally or like morally? 0.54

01:13:56.000 Both.

01:13:58.000 I suppose legally, if they want to.

01:14:00.000 I can understand people being upset over it.

01:14:02.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with racial sensitivity training and concept. 0.79

01:14:05.000 The problem is that it's almost always done by this. 0.69

01:14:07.000 Consultant class of like upper middle class, like wasps who are really, really into this guy is such a thing. 0.66

01:14:12.000 No, no, the problem is that it's for consultants doing the racial.

01:14:16.000 I mean, they could answer the question if it's a good course, everyone should be able to do it.

01:14:22.000 Wouldn't that violate the Civil Rights Act, though?

01:14:24.000 It might.

01:14:25.000 I guess I would defer entirely to that law.

01:14:26.000 If it turns out to be unconstitutional, then he added.

01:14:29.000 I just want to say, though, that while we are fixating on bad behaviors here, and there's nothing wrong with that, I do maintain my insistence that I think the vast majority of progressives would agree with what I have to say.

01:14:40.000 Though, keep in mind, there are always going to be a mix of good and bad ideas with good social movements.

01:14:46.000 Even the Civil Rights Act, or the Civil Rights Movement, which we all know and love today, you know, can't deny it.

01:14:52.000 There were plenty of people.

01:14:54.000 Acting there, whose ideas I disagreed with.

01:14:56.000 Malcolm X, when he had his black separatist phase, though he amended that before he died.

01:14:59.000 There are even ideas of Martin Luther King's that I maybe could question if I spoke with him.

01:15:04.000 He wrote a book after the Civil Rights Act Where Do We Go From Here, Chaos or Something?

01:15:08.000 Chaos or Something Good.

01:15:10.000 And he said a lot of stuff about the responsibility for white people to not make amends, but to educate themselves on the experience of black suffering so that we no longer just integrate.

01:15:23.000 We truly integrate.

01:15:24.000 Assimilate.

01:15:24.000 We know we're a collective bond.

01:15:26.000 There's always going to be some disagreement.

01:15:28.000 Is the movement valid?

01:15:30.000 To me, a movement which recognizes the racial discrimination, the systemic racism that exists, that there are problems we have yet to overcome.

01:15:37.000 This is a movement worth defending.

01:15:38.000 I just want to make some data points real quick, and then Charlie, you can come in.

01:15:42.000 Man.

01:15:43.000 So, first, the one thing I wanted to highlight, let me actually pull this up, is that net support, which is support versus opposition, before George Floyd died for Black Lives Matter in this country, was 16% net support.

01:15:54.000 As of today, according to Civics, it's 3%.

01:15:57.000 That brings it all the way back to 2018, to August 16th.

01:16:01.000 I don't know why this is.

01:16:02.000 Now, one of the things I think is really important to note is the severe tribalism and hyperpolarization.

01:16:06.000 And by the way, Vosh, of course, is far more extreme than he was before the debate.

01:16:11.000 86%.

01:16:12.000 Everything that he says is.

01:16:13.000 Or opposition for Black Lives Matter among Republicans.

01:16:15.000 86%.

01:16:16.000 Opposition.

01:16:17.000 And I mean, you take a look at independence.

01:16:19.000 Republicans are more alike than we may think, huh?

01:16:21.000 Right, right.

01:16:22.000 You take a look at the independents, though, people who don't align.

01:16:26.000 And I would say, what is the date around?

01:16:28.000 Around May 1st, there was an inversion.

01:16:31.000 And now the majority of independents oppose Black Lives Matter 44% to 39%.

01:16:35.000 That's not surprising to me, given that there's been very little in the way of optical.

01:16:40.000 I'm sorry, you haven't spoken in a while.

01:16:41.000 I apologize.

01:16:42.000 No, I'm.

01:16:43.000 I just wanted to make those data points and clarify some things.

01:16:45.000 I wanted this to be more of a discussion than a debate, so I think it's actually really helpful.

01:16:49.000 Are you concerned when certain judges.

01:16:49.000 Unbelievable.

01:16:52.000 Gives it to Charlie!

01:16:53.000 Charlie gives it right back!

01:16:54.000 That accommodations on sentencing should be made on.

01:16:57.000 I'm beating you so badly, I'll give you a turn.

01:16:59.000 No, no, I'm not even playing.

01:17:01.000 I've never heard that before.

01:17:02.000 But I'll pass it back to you anyway.

01:17:03.000 I think all the schools have been saying it.

01:17:05.000 I mean, students have always.

01:17:06.000 Kim Fox in Chicago has heavily implied that communities of color need to be accommodated for in sentencing.

01:17:13.000 And they've all but done this by just getting rid of the bail laws that we've seen altogether.

01:17:18.000 Well, right?

01:17:18.000 Decriminalizing shoplifting, all that.

01:17:20.000 Please.

01:17:20.000 Oh, I'm totally okay with that.

01:17:22.000 We lock way too many people up, just flat out.

01:17:24.000 So, like, murder out the next day.

01:17:27.000 You said shoplifting.

01:17:27.000 No, not murder.

01:17:29.000 Well, I'm just saying, just the bail reform laws in Mexico and California have been a disaster.

01:17:33.000 I can't speak to it.

01:17:34.000 Oh, sorry.

01:17:35.000 And then, Panda Rice, and then now it's in full.

01:17:37.000 It's a tough one for me.

01:17:38.000 I agree.

01:17:39.000 It's not even a debate.

01:17:40.000 He's right.

01:17:41.000 It's not even a discussion.

01:17:42.000 It's a monologue.

01:17:43.000 We're watching this.

01:17:44.000 To take a working class individual who is accused of shoplifting.

01:17:47.000 This is horrible.

01:17:48.000 I don't even want to watch this.

01:17:49.000 Lock him up for several months.

01:17:50.000 He loses his job.

01:17:51.000 However, what do we see in San Francisco?

01:17:54.000 Wave of shoplifting.

01:17:55.000 Businesses shutting down because when you don't stop the crime, you get.

01:17:59.000 Charlie Kirk just doesn't want to debate.

01:18:01.000 He doesn't want to argue.

01:18:03.000 He doesn't use his time to say anything.

01:18:05.000 He gets the floor, asks a question or hands it off.

01:18:08.000 Look, like that.

01:18:09.000 We have a fairly snide little remarks or questions.

01:18:12.000 That's really the thing that causes crime more than anything else.

01:18:14.000 It's not actually poverty, it's income inequality.

01:18:16.000 When poor people and rich people share the same space, it leads to a lot of problems.

01:18:20.000 All poor people together in a neighborhood, what is there to steal?

01:18:22.000 Poor people and rich people together in a neighborhood, there you go.

01:18:25.000 You have very clean targets.

01:18:27.000 He can't argue because his ideology isn't very much different from the people who really fully express themselves in the types of media that have a really strong mix of wealthy and poor.

01:18:36.000 I can see that because, again, from where I grew up, I lived on the border of a lot of low income communities.

01:18:42.000 Now, Beverly Hills, safest place you could be. 0.79

01:18:44.000 3 a.m., you want to take a job, go for it.

01:18:46.000 Serious.

01:18:46.000 Not anymore.

01:18:47.000 Maybe.

01:18:48.000 Oh, I haven't been there in like five years.

01:18:49.000 You'd be surprised, man.

01:18:50.000 I'll say this.

01:18:50.000 Good luck walking Rodeo Drive now.

01:18:52.000 Well, okay, Hurston, I don't want to walk Rodeo Drive during the daylight.

01:18:56.000 I agree.

01:18:57.000 I agree.

01:18:59.000 After Garcon has had his work in LA, it's a disaster.

01:19:02.000 Violent crime is down since the 90s.

01:19:03.000 We've had a bit of an upscale since the 90s.

01:19:04.000 Why is he talking like that?

01:19:06.000 You're a participant.

01:19:07.000 He's on the sidelines making these little quips.

01:19:10.000 We haven't defunded the police anywhere.

01:19:12.000 Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle.

01:19:13.000 Hold on a second.

01:19:14.000 That's not true.

01:19:14.000 Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, they've all cut police departments.

01:19:17.000 260 departments, I think it was reported last year, had stripped.

01:19:21.000 Sorry, when you said defund, I thought.

01:19:23.000 He can't get his momentum up.

01:19:24.000 He makes a little remark, and then it's just like.

01:19:27.000 Okay, let's let Vosh neutralize that relationship between that and the faction.

01:19:30.000 But the crime increase seems to be all countrywide, so I don't know if I'd be leaning more towards that being a COVID thing and people being restless and angry.

01:19:38.000 Please.

01:19:38.000 I don't know, aggressive.

01:19:40.000 The thing that I'm trying to say, though, is when I grew up in Beverly Hills, really, really safe, free from violent crime, I could walk half a mile, though, and the area between rich and poor were the areas where people had barred windows.

01:19:51.000 Every time.

01:19:53.000 So, when it comes to criminality, there are things that we can address very fundamentally that will help everyone.

01:19:59.000 I'm sure there are restructures to bail laws that we could do.

01:20:01.000 I don't know the particulars.

01:20:02.000 It's not my field.

01:20:04.000 I've also read stuff that says.

01:20:05.000 I'm sure we could do that, but apparently, murder actually has a very low default recidivist rate because usually it's done under a very specific set of heated conditions that don't actually speak to a person's character, which makes you wonder a lot about moral worth and what really drives a person to do that sort of thing.

01:20:20.000 I think it's something we should look at critically, though I don't have any.

01:20:22.000 Really strong data based arguments.

01:20:24.000 The last thing I want to say, because it's the first point that you brought up, is racial responses to the criminal justice system.

01:20:29.000 Yes.

01:20:30.000 Yeah, I didn't forget.

01:20:31.000 I'm actually going to triple down on this one, okay? 0.70

01:20:33.000 Not only do I think that we should aggressively look at the ways our sentencing laws affect and discriminate between black and white people and Hispanic and Asian, I think we should do the same between men and women. 0.60

01:20:44.000 Because as much as black people are shafted by the criminal justice system, men are even more. 0.74

01:20:48.000 If you take a look at the disproportionate rates of sentencing, relative levels of implicit bias in the jury, women get off with. 0.88

01:20:54.000 Way more than men do. 0.91

01:20:56.000 Wash MRA confirms. 0.96

01:20:57.000 Way more.

01:20:58.000 So, I mean, maybe it's something we can all agree on.

01:21:01.000 We're guys, I think.

01:21:02.000 Well, so the issue, though, is that when you remove race, it's just a matter of income or wealth.

01:21:08.000 For example, if LeBron James goes in front of a jury, he's going to have the best lawyers.

01:21:13.000 And obviously, that's an extreme example, right?

01:21:14.000 But O.J. Simpson had an all star team.

01:21:16.000 And so the problem is that.

01:21:18.000 Obama.

01:21:20.000 He would also have good lawyers.

01:21:21.000 Oh, yeah.

01:21:21.000 O.J. Simpson?

01:21:22.000 No, sorry.

01:21:22.000 He didn't have Obama as a lawyer.

01:21:24.000 He had Kardashian and Dershowitz.

01:21:26.000 I would just like to interject.

01:21:28.000 That Obama extrajudicially assassinated people and nobody did anything about it. 0.94

01:21:33.000 So now that's black privilege, but that's a joke. 0.59

01:21:35.000 Don't, but I think that there's an implication in your argument that I want to challenge, which is that just because you're poor doesn't mean you commit crimes. 0.78

01:21:44.000 I think that's an insult to poor people, right?

01:21:47.000 And so I think that if you automatically assume that now there are data trends to suggest that, but instead it should be the question of what are we trying to structurally do or through incentives to either punish the people that are committing crimes and lift.

01:22:00.000 People out of that current level.

01:22:01.000 So I think it's a good talking point, but I don't think it's totally true to say we have too many people in prison.

01:22:06.000 I think we have the wrong people in prison.

01:22:08.000 Let me tell you why, really quick.

01:22:09.000 We have more than like any other.

01:22:11.000 Let me tell you why.

01:22:12.000 The average rapist serves four years in prison, and they're very likely to rape again.

01:22:17.000 Totally different than murder.

01:22:19.000 Look, if you want funding that goes to police departments to go towards actually looking at the rape kits that they take rather than just delivering to a bin, 250,000 untested rape kits in the tri state area in New York City.

01:22:29.000 250,000, right?

01:22:32.000 So, our criminal justice system, you could say it had nefarious intentions.

01:22:36.000 I'll be neutral on that.

01:22:37.000 It was very heavy on drugs, obviously, in the 80s and 90s.

01:22:42.000 But generally, though, you cited the number.

01:22:44.000 You said violent crime's been down since the 90s.

01:22:46.000 Why do you think that is?

01:22:47.000 It's because we were tough on crime in the 80s and we had a massive campaign against it and we had the most peaceful decade in American history.

01:22:53.000 Well, there were a few factors.

01:22:55.000 The viability of broken windows policing has been challenged substantially, but there are admittedly some benefits.

01:23:02.000 The argument that I would make is that what you're really doing is you're forestalling the problem.

01:23:07.000 There are socioeconomic conditions that increase criminality, not because it makes people worse people, but just because oftentimes crime isn't some.

01:23:14.000 Direct indicator of poor moral conduct.

01:23:16.000 Oftentimes it is a crime of necessity or it is a crime born of the discounting apathy.

01:23:21.000 Those are not the kind of things that are happening.

01:23:22.000 I've got to challenge you on that.

01:23:24.000 What would be a crime of necessity today with the welfare state that we have?

01:23:27.000 What would possibly be a crime of necessity?

01:23:30.000 I know for, I can at least speak to personal experience that I knew some people involved in drugs.

01:23:35.000 About a study.

01:23:35.000 Like they said, they would sometimes peddle drugs.

01:23:38.000 And they did it because while they may have been accounted for by the welfare state, their parents' medical bills weren't, not sufficiently, not even close.

01:23:45.000 I, Stuff like that.

01:23:46.000 Now, I could.

01:23:47.000 Now, maybe you're getting.

01:23:48.000 People are getting carjacked in the city of Chicago to pay for a day.

01:23:51.000 Mama, well, they're mama medical bills?

01:23:53.000 Really?

01:23:54.000 I got to push back on that.

01:23:54.000 It's not.

01:23:55.000 Sure.

01:23:56.000 I mean, for sure it's anecdotal, but.

01:23:57.000 It is, so it's not like a data point.

01:24:00.000 I never understood this having grown up on the South Side.

01:24:02.000 Seeing people sell drugs is not the fastest and easiest way to make money for someone who's desperate.

01:24:07.000 I mean, no joke.

01:24:08.000 What would you say?

01:24:08.000 Plasma sales?

01:24:09.000 I made $140 per hour playing guitar in front of a baseball field.

01:24:13.000 Now, I understand not everyone can play guitar.

01:24:15.000 Or skateboard.

01:24:16.000 Or skateboard.

01:24:17.000 I knew a guy who said he just bought t shirts.

01:24:19.000 He went and bought bulk t shirts.

01:24:21.000 So the people who are selling drugs, they got to buy the drugs first, or they get a loan, and you can do the same thing with socks.

01:24:26.000 And then people go on the side of the road and sell socks.

01:24:28.000 I think the choice of committing a crime was a choice.

01:24:30.000 Well, it is.

01:24:30.000 Well, hold on.

01:24:31.000 It is always a choice, but what we're really talking about is the limits of determinism here.

01:24:35.000 How much do we choose the things we do?

01:24:36.000 You can make an argument that it's all.

01:24:38.000 I mean, you're religious, of course, so you wouldn't have this argument, but.

01:24:40.000 I wouldn't have anything close to this argument.

01:24:41.000 Right.

01:24:42.000 From a secular perspective, you can make the argument that at the end of the day, the things we do are driven entirely by the chemical reactions in our brain, and therefore everything that we do from start to finish is just a Combination of random molecular patterns and blah blah.

01:24:53.000 We don't live on this.

01:24:54.000 Obviously, I make a choice to get dressed every day.

01:24:56.000 We know how this works in practice, but in practice, we are also the product of our environment.

01:25:01.000 And the fact that, for example, having a single parent while growing up is a pretty strong criminal indicator is a suggestion that, I mean, is it an indicator of a person's inherent moral worth that they were born with a single parent?

01:25:14.000 Probably not.

01:25:15.000 So that statistical difference has to be accounted for by the inevitable fact that environmental differences can lead to harsh outcomes.

01:25:22.000 The question is though, do you then.

01:25:24.000 Create a set of lack of enforcement to say that we're actually not going to enforce looting.

01:25:29.000 Where you had an entire article in National Public Radio not saying you believe this, that says the case for looting, right?

01:25:35.000 San Francisco's basically employed this $900 or less, they're not going to prosecute you, right?

01:25:40.000 Videos of them stealing entire Walgreens, right?

01:25:42.000 Not an exaggeration.

01:25:44.000 And then you have, and just one other data point, just because of COVID, Europe's crime rates did not increase, ours did.

01:25:49.000 And we had a massive defund police, almost kind of we're going to be relaxed on criminality type movement.

01:25:55.000 And this is the question, right?

01:25:56.000 Which is, How many excuses or accommodations are we going to give for crime?

01:26:00.000 Well, we're not.

01:26:01.000 And I'm just wondering, just to finish, is that my perspective obviously is very little to none.

01:26:06.000 Crimes of necessity.

01:26:08.000 I could think of one, maybe two examples where I would make a moral claim of a crime of necessity.

01:26:14.000 And that would be a revenge crime if someone murdered your wife or your kid.

01:26:18.000 I'm not saying necessity.

01:26:18.000 Necessity?

01:26:19.000 I'm saying like a moral accommodation where I could say I could see where they came from.

01:26:22.000 Not necessity.

01:26:23.000 Let me rephrase that.

01:26:24.000 But the idea that in the welfare state that we have, with the private philanthropy kind of generosity, that shoplifting, arson and looting, mugging Barbara Boxer, That we should just say, you know, it's actually because the environment.

01:26:40.000 I don't know why you pointed at me when you said that.

01:26:41.000 I have never mugged Barbara Boss.

01:26:43.000 I'm just saying that as an example.

01:26:45.000 It's you.

01:26:45.000 Yeah, I don't mean to.

01:26:46.000 Was that you in San Francisco?

01:26:48.000 Where were you?

01:26:50.000 No, I've gotten stolen from in San Francisco before.

01:26:52.000 It was a very fun experience.

01:26:54.000 That was back before YouTube, too, so I couldn't afford to replace anything.

01:26:57.000 Okay, a lot to respond to here.

01:26:59.000 Emil Durkheim, cool guy.

01:27:01.000 I thought the crime was sociologically useful because it shows you where the antagonisms are between people's wants and the state's desires.

01:27:01.000 It's awesome.

01:27:09.000 I thought the debate was about critical race theory.

01:27:11.000 Now it's turned into.

01:27:13.000 I don't even know what the cause of crime.

01:27:16.000 And what the state will allow you to do.

01:27:18.000 So, for example, during a food shortage, you know, we can take like.

01:27:23.000 How is it that we have a crime surge right now?

01:27:26.000 To put it lightly.

01:27:27.000 Record murders.

01:27:28.000 Murders!

01:27:29.000 Not stealing, but murders. 0.96

01:27:30.000 Because people need food.

01:27:31.000 Carjacking.

01:27:32.000 So, the crime of theft.

01:27:34.000 And the debate is being framed as.

01:27:36.000 It's a sociological indicator of crime.

01:27:38.000 Crimes of necessity?

01:27:38.000 It's shoplifting?

01:27:40.000 Because people are.

01:27:40.000 Oh, wow.

01:27:41.000 Admittedly, it's a debate about moral determinism.

01:27:44.000 Rather, we do have very generous.

01:27:46.000 It's a little baby wow.

01:27:47.000 It's trillions of dollars every year.

01:27:48.000 Yeah, multi-fill for America?

01:27:50.000 What is the point?

01:27:50.000 I will say, if one billion dollars in value is in value, that's plenty.

01:27:54.000 I want a UBI.

01:27:55.000 We do have UBI.

01:27:56.000 We just implement it with the stimulus.

01:27:57.000 No, we don't.

01:27:59.000 Wait, hold on.

01:27:59.000 Yes.

01:27:59.000 The child tax credits with Biden.

01:28:01.000 Well, no, that's the same.

01:28:02.000 We've got cash checks.

01:28:02.000 We have UBI.

01:28:03.000 But Charlie Kirk doesn't live in a right-wing program.

01:28:05.000 I'll admit temporary.

01:28:06.000 We drive UBI in primarily.

01:28:08.000 Well, hold on.

01:28:08.000 Wait, wait, wait.

01:28:10.000 I need to reject the spurious checks.

01:28:11.000 I don't actually even have anything to say to that.

01:28:13.000 Hold on.

01:28:13.000 This is a spurious correlation, okay?

01:28:15.000 First of all, you will not be able to find any analysis that attributes the increase in crime to people getting their stimulus checks.

01:28:21.000 No, actually, I'm saying it's the opposite.

01:28:22.000 The argument you're making is that if people have a sociological need, they won't commit the crime.

01:28:27.000 So people got money and they still committed crimes.

01:28:29.000 Yeah, but it doesn't always correspond one to one like that.

01:28:32.000 The reason why people needed money is because they weren't getting any money from their jobs because they couldn't work their jobs.

01:28:36.000 So people were still in a worse situation.

01:28:37.000 Well, they also got unemployment.

01:28:39.000 Remember, very generous unemployment.

01:28:40.000 The unemployment started pretty generous.

01:28:42.000 It was $600 to $800, right?

01:28:44.000 I think it was a week or a month, right?

01:28:46.000 It's very bad currently.

01:28:48.000 And not everyone is applicable for unemployment.

01:28:50.000 There are a lot of conditions there that can make that difficult.

01:28:52.000 No, they were very generous.

01:28:53.000 They didn't turn anyone down during the lockdown.

01:28:55.000 We're being very spurious with our criminal law.

01:28:56.000 We're very wonky.

01:28:57.000 I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

01:28:58.000 I'm just.

01:28:59.000 So I just.

01:29:00.000 Oh, God, where was I?

01:29:01.000 Something about some dead guy about how crime is helpful. 0.84

01:29:04.000 I love dead white guys.

01:29:05.000 I actually don't know if Durkheim was white. 0.72

01:29:05.000 That's my. 0.72

01:29:08.000 So I'm not pro crime, not pro criminal.

01:29:10.000 It's also.

01:29:11.000 I'm pro leniency only insofar as I believe it helps to lower our resilience.

01:29:15.000 Dinner at Tim Pool's house.

01:29:17.000 Dinner at Tim Pool's house.

01:29:20.000 What a laugh riot.

01:29:21.000 The environment in prison is a lot. 0.96

01:29:22.000 This discussion between the pedophile and the pedophile.

01:29:26.000 They get out of prison, they have six months on the street.

01:29:29.000 Sometimes it's because they want to go back in.

01:29:31.000 Prison's all they know.

01:29:32.000 They did a movie about that.

01:29:33.000 It was destructive and it went so in good faith.

01:29:36.000 Shawshank Redemption.

01:29:37.000 And it was a good movie.

01:29:37.000 It was a great movie.

01:29:38.000 Yeah, which only serves my point.

01:29:41.000 But with regards to being lax on crime or whatever, there are a couple of things I think we should all agree to.

01:29:47.000 First of all, well, maybe we wouldn't.

01:29:49.000 Drugs is bad.

01:29:50.000 We need to stop locking people up for weed, just flat out.

01:29:53.000 I think that drugs in general should be treated like a medical issue.

01:29:55.000 Portugal did that.

01:29:56.000 They decriminalized all drugs.

01:29:59.000 There's conflicting data on Portugal, but fine. 1.00

01:30:01.000 Portugal doesn't have any black people. 1.00

01:30:02.000 So you take like heroin. 1.00

01:30:03.000 Nobody wants to be on heroin, okay?

01:30:05.000 If you're on heroin and the fleeting moments you have in between your little sessions, you know something's up.

01:30:10.000 So you treat that like a medical issue.

01:30:12.000 Say, hey, we have government offices.

01:30:13.000 You want to come by?

01:30:15.000 That helps.

01:30:15.000 Far fewer overdose deaths.

01:30:17.000 And those people, they go ahead, they become socially productive.

01:30:20.000 Bam.

01:30:20.000 No crime.

01:30:21.000 They contribute to the economy.

01:30:22.000 It just works better than locking them up.

01:30:24.000 I wanted to say something you mentioned with UBI.

01:30:26.000 You mentioned with the unemployment stimulus.

01:30:28.000 First of all, we've actually had a really hard time hiring for specific work.

01:30:32.000 And drugs make it work.

01:30:33.000 Like labor stuff because nobody wants to work. 0.87

01:30:35.000 And no joke.

01:30:36.000 Like we've been having conversations like every other day, like, Can we find some people?

01:30:40.000 And it's like, we can't find anybody.

01:30:42.000 We got signs up and down all throughout the area where it's like, come in, open interviews.

01:30:47.000 We had over 800 flights canceled due to staffing shortages.

01:30:52.000 And now we're facing fuel shortages because of a trucker shortage.

01:30:57.000 We're looking at this unemployment situation.

01:30:58.000 You're spamming my name in the live chat, too.

01:31:00.000 $300 bonus.

01:31:01.000 Now they're doing the child tax credit, which won't be forever.

01:31:03.000 The whole debate.

01:31:04.000 And we're seeing a correlation with massive job openings and people not taking these jobs.

01:31:10.000 I think it's phenomenal.

01:31:11.000 Finally, the bargaining power is in the hands of the workers more so.

01:31:15.000 But it's broken.

01:31:17.000 The flights are shutting down.

01:31:18.000 Nobody wants the jobs, even when they do increase the salaries.

01:31:21.000 So it's true, the flights are an issue.

01:31:23.000 But here's what they don't tell you in the news briefs.

01:31:25.000 So, stock buybacks, something that many companies now do because of their decriminalization, the airline companies have spent an anomalous amount of their profits each year on stock buybacks to enrich their CEOs and shareholders rather than.

01:31:40.000 Then on hiring more pilots.

01:31:43.000 It seems the issue here is this is a simple supply demand issue.

01:31:46.000 People need to raise their wages.

01:31:48.000 You see these news stories from time to time where it's like, I raised my wage to 15 an hour and people showed up.

01:31:53.000 And it's like, yeah, that is how economics works.

01:31:56.000 We had John Schnatter, Papa John, on the show.

01:31:58.000 And he told us a story about a pizzeria where they were paying 35 bucks an hour to some of their pizza cooks or bakers because that was the line.

01:32:06.000 He kept trying to find people, nobody would do it.

01:32:08.000 He kept raising wages.

01:32:09.000 Finally, he settled on $35 an hour.

01:32:11.000 That means pizzas are going to basically more than double because the wage they were paying before was like 15, and now they're over double what they were paying in labor.

01:32:17.000 Their labor costs go up.

01:32:18.000 They have no choice but to charge substantially more for pizza.

01:32:21.000 In the short term, within a month or so, that might have an impact on those pizza makers.

01:32:26.000 But the ripple effect is going to slam into everybody.

01:32:29.000 All of a sudden, the contractor can't afford to feed, take his family out for dinner.

01:32:32.000 He can't afford to buy the food he wants because the base level costs are going to start going up.

01:32:37.000 Then the landlords aren't going to be able to hire the maintenance crews to fix the buildings.

01:32:40.000 The landlords are on fixed pricing, which they can't change, which then results in.

01:32:46.000 A brick wall, a collapse.

01:32:47.000 I just want to say, what we're having right now is an unprecedented economic shock.

01:32:51.000 For a year, nobody worked, or very few people worked.

01:32:54.000 And people got used to staying at home.

01:32:55.000 And as the government should, it should have done more, but as the government should, it took care of them a little bit.

01:33:01.000 You know, we have to ride this out.

01:33:02.000 What our government thought was riding us out through climate crises.

01:33:05.000 Better this than war. 0.95

01:33:07.000 And now people are returning to work, and they're realizing work sucks. 0.98

01:33:13.000 Work sucks everywhere. 0.97

01:33:14.000 But in this country, compared to maybe some of our equally developed contemporaries, Work really sucks. 0.98

01:33:19.000 The work culture, our rate of overproductivity, Americans more than any other developed country, by the way.

01:33:24.000 We push our workers.

01:33:25.000 It doesn't bother me that people are working.

01:33:27.000 And you have favorable employment numbers, but you don't have favorable underemployment numbers.

01:33:32.000 There are a lot of people who have jobs, but they have like two to three part time jobs.

01:33:36.000 They don't get their schedule for the next month until like two weeks before the end of the current one.

01:33:41.000 They're constantly worrying about whether or not they're going to make their shifts line up to get enough hours to get the money they need to get to get to the rent and everything. 0.96

01:33:48.000 It sucks.

01:33:49.000 And it's untenable, and we are in an era of unprecedented record profits for CEOs. 0.96

01:33:55.000 So, yes, I think the solution to this, and it'll be a rough one, that's for sure, is we should normalize higher wages.

01:34:01.000 Maybe the solution to $15 an hour was never a federal mandate.

01:34:04.000 Maybe it was the inevitable economic necessity of incentivizing workers.

01:34:08.000 The reason workers are staying home is because they could take on a lot of work.

01:34:11.000 I will say that the lockdowns were way too harsh and intense.

01:34:14.000 I will say there is a Fifth Amendment argument to be made, though, that if the government forces you to not work, then you should be able to get something in return.

01:34:21.000 The government cannot take something from you constitutionally and not pay you for it.

01:34:25.000 That's the eminent domain argument, right?

01:34:26.000 Right.

01:34:27.000 Which was one of the best arguments for the stimulus package.

01:34:30.000 I just think the lockdowns were far too severe and far too intense and really infringed.

01:34:34.000 On people's liberties and abilities to be able to take risks.

01:34:38.000 I want to go a different direction.

01:34:39.000 I just want to ask you a question.

01:34:40.000 It's just more kind of about human nature.

01:34:42.000 Do you think human beings are naturally good or naturally bad as human nature?

01:34:47.000 Tabula rasa.

01:34:48.000 I really think we are what we mean.

01:34:49.000 Blank slate.

01:34:51.000 Maybe, I mean, maybe there's some inclination.

01:34:53.000 We're hardwired.

01:34:53.000 He hasn't talked in like a half hour, and the first thing he does is ask him a question.

01:34:57.000 He's hardwired to be self serving.

01:34:59.000 The best society merges those two.

01:35:01.000 The best interest for you is the best interest for everyone.

01:35:04.000 The social contract.

01:35:06.000 From now until we die.

01:35:07.000 Locke's, Rousseau's, or Hobbes?

01:35:09.000 Which social contract?

01:35:11.000 It's all him.

01:35:13.000 I guess I would just say the ubiquitous philosophical term more so than anything else.

01:35:18.000 Well, because they all wrote on those terms, right?

01:35:19.000 And they totally disagreed.

01:35:21.000 They all thought different things of humans.

01:35:23.000 They all thought Hobbes had a very dark view, Rousseau very positive, Locke was more neutral.

01:35:28.000 I'm curious.

01:35:29.000 Socialists tend to think that human beings are fundamentally positive, but I reject that.

01:35:33.000 That's why I'm curious, because you see way too cynical.

01:35:36.000 Well, the implicit suggestion to that is.

01:35:37.000 This is an interview.

01:35:38.000 This is like a Tucker Carlson imitation interview.

01:35:41.000 I don't believe that. 0.99

01:35:42.000 I think that the best economic systems will work when everyone is an absolute POS, just a dirty, horrible human being. 0.85

01:35:49.000 And you incentivize them. 0.82

01:35:50.000 Well, but it should.

01:35:51.000 Maybe humans are amazing, but the best system should survive human greed.

01:35:56.000 I want to ask you a very simple and general question.

01:35:58.000 Uh oh.

01:35:59.000 Those are the worst ones to answer.

01:36:01.000 Do you think some people are better than other people?

01:36:04.000 Can I add a bit of nuance to that answer?

01:36:06.000 Answer however you want.

01:36:07.000 I think that some people have been developed to be more moral and of better character.

01:36:11.000 Oh, no.

01:36:12.000 Okay.

01:36:13.000 I didn't mean moral.

01:36:15.000 Just better, like they're taller?

01:36:17.000 That's it.

01:36:18.000 Oh.

01:36:19.000 But I think your interpretation of the question is part of the answer.

01:36:22.000 By any metric, there will always be people who are better than others, always perhaps by some combination of environment and genetics.

01:36:29.000 I just hope that we can all ride along beside each other.

01:36:33.000 I agree.

01:36:33.000 I think I mentioned this before the show.

01:36:36.000 If you were to ask anybody on the left or the right, what did you want?

01:36:39.000 It would be like, For everyone to prosper, for people to be successful, to pull people out of poverty, things like that.

01:36:45.000 I guess the issue is disagree on how we get there.

01:36:47.000 Well, I think we want, I'm not sure if we want the same thing.

01:36:51.000 I want more preservation and conservation of what we already have.

01:36:54.000 Do you want socialism?

01:36:55.000 Absolutely not.

01:36:56.000 Oh, no.

01:36:57.000 Slight ideological disagreement.

01:36:58.000 Come on, come on.

01:36:59.000 I mean, but we don't need to play the word games.

01:37:01.000 Go ahead.

01:37:01.000 Why do you want to preserve?

01:37:03.000 Well, I think that we have something beautiful, unique, and exceptional.

01:37:06.000 And I take this is what it comes down to.

01:37:08.000 This is it.

01:37:09.000 Brutish and nasty and awful and cruel.

01:37:11.000 And the fact we've been able to build something decent and civil.

01:37:14.000 Is pretty remarkable.

01:37:15.000 But this is a central question.

01:37:17.000 A good system?

01:37:18.000 Which he can't answer.

01:37:20.000 And people thrive from the system?

01:37:22.000 Yeah, I think people flourish and thrive.

01:37:24.000 I think that a rights based system is naturally the best way to govern.

01:37:27.000 And he has no justification to preserve this country.

01:37:30.000 Conservatives have no answer.

01:37:32.000 Of course not.

01:37:33.000 No.

01:37:33.000 I mean, the sacrificing of rights is something that usually has to be earned negatively, like murdering somebody.

01:37:39.000 This is what I mean, because I think I could ask you the same question.

01:37:42.000 Do you want people to be brutalized, impoverished, imprisoned?

01:37:45.000 Of course not.

01:37:45.000 Taking their rights away.

01:37:46.000 But I would never want to grow complacent.

01:37:48.000 You're both familiar with the Marxian theory of dialectic materialism.

01:37:51.000 You mean Hegel's theory?

01:37:54.000 No, he had the dialectic and we built on it, you know?

01:37:58.000 I'd love to get into it.

01:37:58.000 Or he built.

01:37:59.000 No.

01:38:00.000 I really want to get into the Marx thing because I'm super fascinated by it.

01:38:03.000 No, I just want to say, you know, the theory, I mean, put simply, I guess, is that human society, the human project, it evolves as a product of antagonism, grinding antagonism between people in Marxian view.

01:38:14.000 It's very different.

01:38:15.000 It's very Hegelian.

01:38:16.000 Well, yeah, no, I mean, he was a student of Hegel.

01:38:18.000 I know.

01:38:18.000 He was part of this.

01:38:19.000 Yeah.

01:38:19.000 He was the young Hegelian.

01:38:20.000 He won the argument.

01:38:21.000 No, I'm not.

01:38:21.000 Well, you're not.

01:38:22.000 I'm just saying, like, he would get mad at you if you said he was Hegelian influence, but I don't think I would.

01:38:26.000 Hegel was a smart guy.

01:38:27.000 I just can't read his work because.

01:38:29.000 The phenomenology of spirit is impossible.

01:38:31.000 I was worried you were going to make fun of me.

01:38:31.000 All right.

01:38:31.000 Thank you.

01:38:33.000 I just want to say.

01:38:34.000 No, it's really hard.

01:38:34.000 He made the very simple complex.

01:38:36.000 Yeah.

01:38:37.000 We agree on something.

01:38:38.000 I just want to say.

01:38:39.000 Sorry, sorry.

01:38:39.000 I just want to.

01:38:40.000 The project of humans moving forward.

01:38:42.000 Who is the target of that?

01:38:43.000 I think that antagonism fuels it, but in the best way.

01:38:45.000 Not antagonism like war, but antagonism in the sense that we look at our ideas, our values, and we challenge that.

01:38:51.000 So I just want to say something we disagree on.

01:38:53.000 I don't think humanity is a project.

01:38:56.000 Do you think we're headed towards something better than what we have today?

01:38:59.000 Probably not.

01:39:00.000 I think that we're actually, we're probably engaging in the second law of thermodynamics currently.

01:39:05.000 That we're untangling.

01:39:06.000 We're going to chaos, not order.

01:39:07.000 See, this to me, this is the thing, and I'm not trying to patronize.

01:39:11.000 Conservatives have been shown to be more fearful on average, and I think if they thought that way, it would be very warranted.

01:39:16.000 But some fears are legitimate.

01:39:18.000 Certainly. 1.00

01:39:19.000 Winston Churchill's fears about the evil Germans were legitimate. 0.97

01:39:22.000 I'm not. 0.85

01:39:22.000 No, no, no. 0.85

01:39:23.000 No, fear is not.

01:39:24.000 No, they weren't.

01:39:25.000 And there are elements of this.

01:39:26.000 I think, though, that if society is to collapse, it would probably be from climate change.

01:39:30.000 And it's not about fear.

01:39:31.000 Oh, come on.

01:39:31.000 You don't believe that.

01:39:32.000 No, for sure.

01:39:34.000 We'll see it.

01:39:35.000 Assuming you try to get the truth out of it.

01:39:37.000 Charlie Kirk is aping the Tucker Carlson.

01:39:38.000 You know, my problem is.

01:39:40.000 You know, my problem is.

01:39:41.000 You know, like, I see all the news.

01:39:43.000 I see all the arguments about climate change.

01:39:44.000 And I'm like, I understand them.

01:39:46.000 And then you get Obama buying beachfront property.

01:39:48.000 You get the celebrities flying airplanes.

01:39:49.000 And I'm like, are you kidding me?

01:39:52.000 I rode the truck. 0.99

01:39:54.000 We're all here watching Tim Pool, alternative media, so we get to hear about Obama's a climate hypocrite. 0.95

01:39:59.000 He bought a big house in March of the year. 0.86

01:40:01.000 The human project is super interesting.

01:40:03.000 Sean Hannity?

01:40:03.000 What is this?

01:40:04.000 Is this the Five?

01:40:05.000 Is this Fox and Friends?

01:40:06.000 I'd like to think.

01:40:07.000 I mean, people have always said this is the best example.

01:40:09.000 You know, the postmaster general back in.

01:40:09.000 Gets.

01:40:11.000 Was it the postmaster general?

01:40:12.000 Was it the patent office?

01:40:13.000 No, the patent office, 1900.

01:40:14.000 All the patents have been made.

01:40:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:40:15.000 And I'm not saying it's the best it's been.

01:40:17.000 I'm not saying improvement is not possible.

01:40:18.000 Maybe we can make.

01:40:19.000 Charlie Kirkins.

01:40:20.000 But when I try to put my shoes in the shoes of the people.

01:40:22.000 I mean, just straight up.

01:40:24.000 This debate has been an unmitigated disaster.

01:40:27.000 What I live in would have been incomprehensible to them in every imaginable sense, every conceivable way.

01:40:32.000 But their arguments for the permanence of society then would have been better than mine today because they would have lived in a stable feudal society.

01:40:42.000 For millennia.

01:40:44.000 And today, I now am here using technology that would have been alien to humans 20 years ago.

01:40:50.000 I think about, like, the Cultural Revolution, the Cultural Revolution.

01:40:54.000 I think about the revolution in Russia.

01:40:57.000 And you mentioned that conservatives tend to be more fearful.

01:40:59.000 And I think there's history that shows us things can go wrong.

01:41:02.000 Liberals will show technology that's not great, that's probably better, and then end up with an unchecked movement that results in millions dead.

01:41:11.000 20 to 40 million, I think, in the Cultural Revolution.

01:41:11.000 For sure.

01:41:14.000 On the United States.

01:41:15.000 100 million dead from communism.

01:41:16.000 Always hindsight, right?

01:41:18.000 Because people are saying this is a major event in social progress in America's history as well.

01:41:22.000 The breakup, the Confederacy, the Civil War, the fight to abolish slavery, sure.

01:41:26.000 You know, suffrage for women, yes.

01:41:28.000 The Civil Rights Act, yes.

01:41:30.000 Gay marriage, yes.

01:41:31.000 Every time we take a step forward, I don't, you're probably anti gay marriage, right?

01:41:34.000 Because I'm pro traditional marriage. 1.00

01:41:37.000 Right, anti gay marriage. 1.00

01:41:37.000 Okay, sure. 1.00

01:41:39.000 Pro traditional.

01:41:39.000 I can't even say that.

01:41:40.000 Gotcha. 0.99

01:41:41.000 Every time, one man, one woman. 0.96

01:41:43.000 Every time we take a step forward, well, we agreed in the Three parent household before.

01:41:47.000 I disagreed on polyamory actually.

01:41:48.000 50% more efficient than the previous method.

01:41:51.000 That's not actually a study.

01:41:53.000 And 10 times more chaotic and way more perverse.

01:41:56.000 I'm not actually citing anything.

01:41:58.000 It's possibly not a linear growth pattern with parents in the house.

01:42:01.000 It's actually exponential.

01:42:02.000 It just goes up forever.

01:42:04.000 Albert Einstein had 12 parents.

01:42:06.000 By the time you hit 12 parents, the children are just a god, by the way.

01:42:10.000 Just a little bit.

01:42:11.000 Yeah, it's like a warp speech.

01:42:12.000 Very ubermensch, but continue, yeah.

01:42:13.000 Sorry.

01:42:14.000 It always feels like everyone argues, like this is the best it gets, and any future steps would be treacherous.

01:42:20.000 But then we always make that next step.

01:42:22.000 I don't know if America is going to be around forever.

01:42:24.000 We're a young country, and countries far older than ours have fallen in the lifetime of America.

01:42:30.000 So, I can't look at what we have today or the people that I live with or the values that I believe in and assign to them a feeling of permanence.

01:42:35.000 But I can say this I fear stagnation.

01:42:39.000 And every country that has ever set itself upon stagnation has always died.

01:42:43.000 Every time.

01:42:44.000 Every country always seeks to better itself.

01:42:46.000 And maybe that road to betterment leads to ruin, but the path of stagnation is always ruinous.

01:42:52.000 I agree.

01:42:53.000 Our culture has stagnated severely.

01:42:54.000 But the so called thing of progress is like Christmas music in the 50s.

01:42:58.000 It's a rationalization.

01:42:59.000 Thank you.

01:43:00.000 Become repetitive, redundant reboots.

01:43:00.000 Movies have been.

01:43:02.000 That's right, in a sense.

01:43:03.000 It's devolved from where we had these interesting pieces of art to just regurgitated craft form over them.

01:43:08.000 Can I just take some exception with your argument?

01:43:10.000 First of all, there is this kind of revisionist belief that somehow conservatives, in the traditional sense, were against some of those social movements, which is just not true.

01:43:19.000 I'm not saying you'd be a Confederate.

01:43:20.000 It is.

01:43:21.000 And I'm not even getting to the party switches.

01:43:23.000 But there is a direct lineage between hyper focusing on racial politics in the 1860s and the 1920s and some of the people on the American left that are just completely obsessed with American politics.

01:43:23.000 Traditionally, it is.

01:43:34.000 You know, racial politics. 0.67

01:43:35.000 It's equality versus hierarchy, right?

01:43:36.000 But what do you mean by that?

01:43:38.000 Well, back then, the slave owners wouldn't have been like, I'm really obsessed with race or equality.

01:43:43.000 You know, now, I mean, obsession with race can be pernicious in many ways, but I think there's a pretty big difference between being obsessed with the idea of racial equality and being obsessed with the power of the law.

01:43:52.000 I think it's equally as pernicious, just they don't have the power to implement it.

01:43:54.000 But we kind of already did that.

01:43:56.000 Do you think I'd do that?

01:43:57.000 Like, you?

01:43:58.000 No, I don't think you would.

01:43:59.000 I mean, I don't know you well enough.

01:44:00.000 You seem rather decent.

01:44:02.000 I'd try my best.

01:44:03.000 But, like, I wouldn't give power to Nicole Hannah Jones.

01:44:05.000 I don't know who that is. 1.00

01:44:07.000 She founded the 1619 Project.

01:44:09.000 Oh, I just read the thing.

01:44:10.000 I don't know if it's amended.

01:44:11.000 We have a constitution to prevent us against people like that.

01:44:14.000 What I'm saying, though, is that, for example, I'm not against social change.

01:44:18.000 I mean, I'd love to abolish abortion, for example. 0.94

01:44:20.000 I'd love to put fathers back in the home. 1.00

01:44:21.000 No doubt.

01:44:22.000 So conservatives are not necessarily always saying, no, we don't want to improve, we want to stagnate.

01:44:26.000 We want the correct form of social change.

01:44:28.000 So let me ask this then.

01:44:30.000 Let's get to the core of it then.

01:44:31.000 What values are you looking to maximize?

01:44:34.000 Not just like morality, because that could mean the same thing or different things to anyone.

01:44:34.000 This is a great question.

01:44:39.000 But if you were to look at a society and were asked to assess its worth, what metrics would you look towards?

01:44:44.000 It's ability to defend those that can't defend themselves.

01:44:47.000 Okay.

01:44:48.000 Charity, generosity, integrity, faith to your creator, the ability to pass down good and moral values to the next generation, one that believes in work, and one that believes in the cause of the nation above the self.

01:45:01.000 All right.

01:45:02.000 I've got a nice question.

01:45:03.000 I think that's a fairly collectivist point, that last one, though, wouldn't it be?

01:45:05.000 Well, the nation above itself?

01:45:07.000 I mean, you could call it collectivist.

01:45:10.000 But I wouldn't say the state.

01:45:11.000 I'd say the idea of the nation.

01:45:12.000 Oh, correct.

01:45:13.000 So there's two different things.

01:45:14.000 And those are conflated sometimes by libertarian socialist types, which is a walking contradiction.

01:45:18.000 I love to ask you that.

01:45:19.000 But just like just being like a Christian atheist, right? 0.98

01:45:22.000 I'm going to answer it when you're done with it. 1.00

01:45:23.000 Humility.

01:45:24.000 Yeah, I think my follow up might touch on that.

01:45:26.000 But the state is a creation of the people.

01:45:30.000 The people are the country.

01:45:31.000 That's why our Constitution, the preamble says we the people, not we the federal government, right?

01:45:36.000 So the people are the nation.

01:45:37.000 And so that's why I differentiate between these.

01:45:39.000 What he's defining is do you have a loyalty to the people?

01:45:42.000 Do you have beliefs that you want to create?

01:45:44.000 Something bigger than yourselves.

01:45:45.000 I think that's a moral good.

01:45:47.000 To me, and I mean this without meaning to hyperbolize, but to me, that's always strung rather fascist.

01:45:53.000 The myth of the common man, the people, the Volk, you know? 0.51

01:45:56.000 The idea that there is a state, and Germany was a state, of course, but Hitler didn't really appeal to the state.

01:46:01.000 It was the concept of the fatherland that he really hit on, and the people were a being of the fatherland.

01:46:09.000 They were an instrumental organ.

01:46:11.000 And to me, the problem with this is that when you get down to it, this thought process, this mentality, it drives men to do terrible, terrible things.

01:46:19.000 Because interpersonally, all of the chemical effects of empathy kick in.

01:46:23.000 I look at you, I see you, but you start bringing in concepts like the nation.

01:46:27.000 The fatherland.

01:46:29.000 And it becomes very easy to convince people to compel themselves towards courses that they would otherwise not.

01:46:33.000 That's simply not true.

01:46:35.000 Expected you to use a 1930s reference earlier, so congratulations.

01:46:39.000 No, I'm not calling you a fascist.

01:46:41.000 I'm only saying.

01:46:41.000 No, I know.

01:46:41.000 You did do the correct.

01:46:43.000 I didn't mean to hyperbolize.

01:46:44.000 But there's other nations today that have those values that we would never call fascists, like Japan.

01:46:49.000 Well, Japan has very strict immigration. 0.97

01:46:51.000 Well, I think Korea is actually a better example, to be honest. 1.00

01:46:54.000 I really don't like either of those countries for the reasons that I'm so sorry.

01:46:57.000 I think they're both deeply conservative countries.

01:46:57.000 You don't like Korea?

01:46:59.000 I agree with you. 1.00

01:47:00.000 Right.

01:47:01.000 Yeah.

01:47:01.000 Wonderful.

01:47:02.000 And I think they do so in part because there's a degree of anti individualism.

01:47:07.000 The extent to which Charlie Kirk is trying to sound like Tucker Carlson.

01:47:10.000 Now, it's funny.

01:47:10.000 I feel like our roles are being reversed a little bit here.

01:47:12.000 Isn't that interesting?

01:47:13.000 The common good isn't something I appeal to for me.

01:47:16.000 In many cases.

01:47:17.000 I just appeal to the good.

01:47:19.000 The good, sure.

01:47:20.000 Which is two different things.

01:47:21.000 Is freedom.

01:47:22.000 That's what I care about most.

01:47:23.000 And that's what libertarian socialism is about.

01:47:26.000 There are many types of freedoms, positive and negative.

01:47:28.000 If I might indulge very briefly, like, is a man thrown to a lawless desert?

01:47:35.000 Without food, water, or clothing free.

01:47:37.000 Really asking.

01:47:38.000 So, probably no. 1.00

01:47:41.000 He's free to die. 1.00

01:47:41.000 I agree. 1.00

01:47:42.000 But that's an extreme example, not applicable in modern wealthy America.

01:47:46.000 Or about any Western nation.

01:47:46.000 No, no.

01:47:48.000 But it's a philosophical base.

01:47:49.000 It's also a Rousseauian argument.

01:47:50.000 Man's born free and he, you know, spends the rest of his life in chains.

01:47:53.000 It's just anti commercial in nature.

01:47:54.000 Well, no, but it's a base philosophical argument because it's true, they're lawless.

01:47:59.000 There's nothing preventing him from doing anything in that environment, but he has no ability to act on his own.

01:48:04.000 But do you know what he does have?

01:48:05.000 Consciousness.

01:48:06.000 Well, sure.

01:48:07.000 So that's a natural rights doctrine that I will defend.

01:48:09.000 Well, I mean, I like consciousness too.

01:48:11.000 The only point that I'm getting at is when it comes to people's freedom and the ability for people to protect their freedom, this is what I care about.

01:48:16.000 It's what Marx cared about.

01:48:17.000 If you actually read what he wrote, and I have.

01:48:19.000 I've read Das Kapital, I've read the Manifesto, and guess what?

01:48:22.000 He was right about some things.

01:48:23.000 Then you know, but not everything.

01:48:24.000 He didn't talk.

01:48:25.000 He was really wrong.

01:48:26.000 Charlie just wants to impress Vosch.

01:48:28.000 I mean, that's ultimately the problem.

01:48:30.000 He wants to impress Vosch that society was a very complex, he wants to show his fans he's not so bad after all.

01:48:36.000 We have a liberator.

01:48:37.000 In some ways, he's chasing the And other ways enslaved.

01:48:40.000 But do you know what he got wrong?

01:48:41.000 He got wrong.

01:48:42.000 Sometimes people can be free for other devices that they are not able to regulate.

01:48:46.000 They could be free from alcoholism, drug addiction, some sort of any other sort of perverse addiction.

01:48:53.000 The idea of freedom is very libertarian.

01:48:55.000 But I agree with that, though.

01:48:56.000 No, I know you do.

01:48:56.000 The greatest society is one where a man is born and there are as few things as possible preventing him from doing whatever he wants for the rest of his life.

01:49:09.000 I totally disagree.

01:49:10.000 So long as, of course, He doesn't deprive others of the ability to do the same.

01:49:15.000 So I think that's a miserable society.

01:49:17.000 Freedom?

01:49:18.000 No, that's not freedom. 0.53

01:49:19.000 That's licentiousness or degeneracy.

01:49:22.000 That's chaos.

01:49:23.000 What is degeneracy?

01:49:25.000 I like men.

01:49:25.000 How about pedophilia?

01:49:27.000 Okay.

01:49:28.000 Well, obviously, you said whatever he wants.

01:49:30.000 Is pedophilia a freedom vow?

01:49:32.000 As long as they don't infringe in the rights of others.

01:49:33.000 I'm sure you could believe.

01:49:35.000 So there are limits on freedom, is what you're saying.

01:49:35.000 I would believe that.

01:49:37.000 It's not this Wild West campaign.

01:49:39.000 So where do you get those limits from?

01:49:41.000 Well, obviously, you would probably have to have a pretty complex, interlocking legal system to determine what we agree upon as like a Reasonable limits we can place on people's behavior.

01:49:48.000 We have that now to an extent.

01:49:49.000 No, I know.

01:49:50.000 So, like, pedophilia is bad.

01:49:51.000 That would be a bad thing.

01:49:52.000 Okay, kidnapping?

01:49:53.000 That would be a bad thing.

01:49:54.000 That would be a bad thing. 1.00

01:49:54.000 Rape? 1.00

01:49:55.000 Why do you think those things are bad? 1.00

01:49:57.000 I think they're bad because you're stripping other people of the ability to do that which they will.

01:50:01.000 With all those examples, you're inflicting harm on other people.

01:50:03.000 I talked about this last night.

01:50:05.000 I think that dealing drugs is about harm.

01:50:06.000 It's not the definition.

01:50:07.000 Their morality is about harm.

01:50:09.000 What about dealing drugs to kids?

01:50:11.000 Dealing drugs to kids?

01:50:12.000 I think I would disagree with that probably because I think there's something exceptional about addictive substances and children.

01:50:19.000 That being said, I think a lot of stuff would apply to children specifically.

01:50:22.000 Contract law.

01:50:23.000 Kids can't sign contracts.

01:50:24.000 But there's nothing wrong with that.

01:50:25.000 Do you see what I'm getting at?

01:50:25.000 Eventually, you do agree that a conservative framework is necessary.

01:50:28.000 But I don't think that's a conservative framework because there are other things I care about that you would always disagree with, like collective ownership of the means of production.

01:50:34.000 Yeah, I totally disagree.

01:50:35.000 Which I think private property and freedom are linked together.

01:50:37.000 Which would give workers the most freedom possible.

01:50:40.000 We've definitely gone along because it was just so fantastic.

01:50:43.000 It feels like it's been five minutes.

01:50:44.000 Oh, yeah, I know.

01:50:45.000 I know, right, right.

01:50:46.000 And Ian, you've collected a bunch of.

01:50:47.000 It feels like it's been five hours.

01:50:48.000 Right, right. 0.80

01:50:49.000 I'm going to use the restroom. 1.00

01:50:50.000 Go away.

01:50:50.000 Is that okay?

01:50:51.000 Aria, go.

01:50:52.000 It's going to take like.

01:50:52.000 Do it too.

01:50:53.000 100 seconds.

01:50:54.000 Yeah.

01:50:54.000 You can time me.

01:50:55.000 I'm kind of interested in what you think about it.

01:50:57.000 I think humans are inherently destructive by nature, and that if you took a human and put him in a room with a bunch of small animals and plants, over time, his hunger, purely because of hunger, ultimately, he would destroy and consume all of those animals and all of those plants.

01:51:12.000 And then if you put another human in there, one of those would eventually destroy and consume the other human.

01:51:17.000 I do think that we are inherently exposed.

01:51:21.000 You didn't pee before the show?

01:51:22.000 That might be a defining trait of our species.

01:51:24.000 You didn't go to the bathroom before the stream.

01:51:26.000 You can't hold it.

01:51:27.000 I had to pee before I started, and I'm holding it.

01:51:31.000 And that's unique to us.

01:51:32.000 Other animals don't do that.

01:51:34.000 I don't know if that's a good thing.

01:51:35.000 Maybe everything would have been better.

01:51:37.000 They do this.

01:51:38.000 Every animal does.

01:51:40.000 The issue is that.

01:51:40.000 Build spaceships?

01:51:41.000 No, no, no, no.

01:51:42.000 Expand.

01:51:43.000 Expansion.

01:51:44.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:51:45.000 Not build spaceships.

01:51:46.000 That'd be cool.

01:51:47.000 Over time, the.

01:51:48.000 Listen, I'm not being nitpicky.

01:51:50.000 This has been a terrible debate performance.

01:51:52.000 Constraint.

01:51:53.000 There's no way that you can cut this where this is a Charlie Kirk win.

01:51:56.000 This is an unequivocal.

01:51:58.000 Ian Kuczynski.

01:51:59.000 Intelligence that separated the story from the equilibrium.

01:52:04.000 It was framed in the way that Ian Kuczynski wants.

01:52:06.000 He dominated the.

01:52:08.000 The line has to run faster.

01:52:09.000 The zebras and the stripes are changing.

01:52:10.000 I don't even know what Charlie Kirk was arguing.

01:52:12.000 Walk away from the table and tell me what Charlie Kirk's argument was.

01:52:15.000 We adapt instantly.

01:52:16.000 We were like, hey, that bird's flying.

01:52:18.000 Did not build up momentum.

01:52:19.000 Did not frame the conversation.

01:52:21.000 I just want to say, we're talking about.

01:52:22.000 Uplifted the opponent.

01:52:24.000 Non controversial topic.

01:52:25.000 No, no, well, in a non controversial way.

01:52:27.000 Believe it or not, we'll have to catch the behind the scenes relationship.

01:52:30.000 Concede the ground.

01:52:31.000 I don't have much optimism for the human condition.

01:52:33.000 Every way, shape, and form.

01:52:35.000 I can't say anything positive.

01:52:36.000 And he came across as unlikely.

01:52:37.000 I just think that the Tucker thing is so alienating and off footing.

01:52:40.000 I can't believe it.

01:52:41.000 We're better receptive to reward incentives than any other thing.

01:52:46.000 Ian's got a bunch of questions.

01:52:47.000 So, for everybody who super chatted, we were having Ian, we mentioned in the beginning, go through and try and find really good questions.

01:52:52.000 A lot of people are saying really awesome things.

01:52:54.000 I want to read one that's not a question, real quickly.

01:52:56.000 It's from Adam Schrader, who said So far, this whole conversation reminds me of friendly bar discussions 10 years ago.

01:53:02.000 I miss that world.

01:53:03.000 Thank you, Vosh and Charlie, for being excellent.

01:53:04.000 Thank you, Tim, for steel manning.

01:53:06.000 You all have leader demeanors.

01:53:08.000 I know a lot of people disagree with each other, especially in the chat.

01:53:11.000 Not everyone gets along, but.

01:53:12.000 Well, we all can come together and have a conversation.

01:53:15.000 We will.

01:53:15.000 Ian's got some questions.

01:53:16.000 Let me bring them to you.

01:53:18.000 And then afterwards, if we still have time permitting, I would like to do the member segment and then personally be more involved than I've been for the most part.

01:53:27.000 Sorry, we've been.

01:53:28.000 Well, no, that was kind of terrible.

01:53:30.000 You haven't said anything.

01:53:30.000 No, not you.

01:53:31.000 I'm like.

01:53:34.000 You guys know I did.

01:53:34.000 And I did interject.

01:53:35.000 Just toggles for the right.

01:53:37.000 To go through all of them.

01:53:39.000 Thanks, Ian.

01:53:39.000 Okay, these are some pretty good ones.

01:53:40.000 So you just said press.

01:53:42.000 Okay, there we go.

01:53:42.000 So Ian's pulled some super chats.

01:53:45.000 M asks, please ask each guest if they agree or disagree with the statement.

01:53:49.000 Abortion breaks the non aggression principle and why?

01:53:53.000 I think abortion is immoral and we should do our best to eradicate it. 0.53

01:53:53.000 Obviously, yeah. 0.53

01:53:58.000 I don't really believe in the NAP.

01:53:59.000 It is amoral.

01:54:00.000 I understand people's discomfort with abortion.

01:54:03.000 I think that unfortunately it's a legal necessity as a byproduct of some very compelling personhood arguments I've heard in the past, which I would have to read up on again before reciting.

01:54:13.000 Can I ask a question?

01:54:14.000 When do you think life begins?

01:54:17.000 I don't know what life is.

01:54:19.000 So, how about your life?

01:54:20.000 You have life right now.

01:54:21.000 When did your life begin?

01:54:22.000 I don't remember the first six months of my life.

01:54:24.000 I genuinely don't remember.

01:54:25.000 Looking at the development of a human life, when would you say that begins?

01:54:28.000 I know when human bodies develop.

01:54:30.000 The genuine answer that I have is that I think that it's always going to be dictated somewhat by intuition.

01:54:36.000 The intuitive answer from me is life begins at birth.

01:54:39.000 That's my intuitive answer.

01:54:40.000 If you asked me, that's what feels right, but I'm sympathetic to other perspectives.

01:54:45.000 What about when DNA is formed?

01:54:47.000 Well, that would be a conception, right?

01:54:48.000 Or at least right after.

01:54:49.000 Mm hmm.

01:54:50.000 Well, that's not what obviously that's not the metric that I would look at.

01:54:53.000 How about heartbeat?

01:54:56.000 That's six weeks.

01:54:58.000 No, as early as six weeks could be as early as as late as six weeks, early as 25 days.

01:55:01.000 Yeah, okay.

01:55:02.000 Yeah, no, yeah, no, these are interesting metrics.

01:55:05.000 I just think that my understanding of consciousness is more of an emergent property of experience more so than it is.

01:55:12.000 I would have to reread.

01:55:13.000 It's been a while since I've read up on this.

01:55:14.000 You know, I love it.

01:55:15.000 You said, when do you think life begins?

01:55:17.000 That was your question.

01:55:18.000 I love how framing changes everything.

01:55:20.000 Watch, ask me now.

01:55:21.000 Tim, when does life begin?

01:55:23.000 I think it was when proteins formed and started self replicating in the primordial.

01:55:27.000 Oh, you mean conception?

01:55:28.000 You see, it's interesting how framing changes everything.

01:55:31.000 To me, it's more, I guess, for me, because any cell in our body is a lot.

01:55:34.000 That's fascinating stuff.

01:55:36.000 MDMA and any skin off.

01:55:37.000 This is very enriching.

01:55:38.000 I wasn't meaning to poke at you or anything.

01:55:40.000 I was just framing it.

01:55:41.000 When does a life worthy of protection begin?

01:55:43.000 That's a difficult question.

01:55:45.000 That's a better way to word it.

01:55:46.000 To me, that has to be a legal question because protection has to be arbited by an entity, and it can't be.

01:55:51.000 And for me, that would probably be a.

01:55:52.000 You guys are so lucky.

01:55:53.000 Thank God for me.

01:55:55.000 Am I right?

01:55:55.000 That there are times after birth when you're not able to do that.

01:55:57.000 Thank God for America first.

01:55:59.000 I saved.

01:56:00.000 But if you're talking about things, if it wasn't for me, this is all that you would ask.

01:56:05.000 This is what there are other legal concerns as well.

01:56:07.000 But this is an issue that I think I'm.

01:56:10.000 Well, I always support a pro choice argument.

01:56:13.000 The philosophy behind it is something I'm a little more open to.

01:56:16.000 So is it more on the size of the being, or the level of development of the being, or the environment of the being, or the degree of dependency?

01:56:25.000 Which one do you think?

01:56:26.000 Output transcript Out of those things is the reason why you say birth.

01:56:29.000 I'm just curious.

01:56:30.000 The degree of dependency is legally worthwhile, but for consciousness, I think it's more about it being an emergent property of experience.

01:56:38.000 So is it okay then if we just basically pull the plug on all the people that are kind of comatose and cucumbers on machines?

01:56:44.000 They really don't have self consciousness and they're very dependent.

01:56:47.000 Well, I mean, legally we do believe that because if you have.

01:56:50.000 Oh, it's very tricky in the courts.

01:56:52.000 It is, but it's not the same as murdering a person.

01:56:54.000 If there's conservatorship over a person who's brain dead, there are instances where you will be allowed to pull the plug.

01:57:01.000 You can't do so without an arbiter, though.

01:57:03.000 You can't just call in and say, just pull the plug.

01:57:04.000 That is murder.

01:57:06.000 Oh, well, yeah, you can just yank it, of course.

01:57:07.000 You have to have approval and process.

01:57:09.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:57:10.000 But it does indicate that legally and morally there is ambiguity with regards to the relationship between the two.

01:57:15.000 But it shows that there is an arbiter, though, that you have to go through a system and check.

01:57:18.000 I didn't mean to derail Tim.

01:57:19.000 Sorry, yeah, yeah.

01:57:20.000 I want to make sure we can get to as many questions as possible.

01:57:22.000 Of course.

01:57:22.000 That was great.

01:57:23.000 That was great. 0.98

01:57:24.000 Camilla Mamani says WTF, a libertarian socialist, is like a meat eater vegan.

01:57:31.000 Libertarianism was actually a left leaning ideology.

01:57:33.000 The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ, the people answering them are like room temperature IQ.

01:57:38.000 Actually, before that, libertarianism was exclusively in the purview of socialists, and I believe what they believed that freedom is the greatest human good as long as it doesn't infringe upon others, and that the best way to achieve that freedom is through democracy.

01:57:51.000 We have political democracy, flawed as it is.

01:57:53.000 Economic democracy is something we should also strive for.

01:57:56.000 I'll tell you this the left libertarian quadrant is the hardest quadrant to be in.

01:58:02.000 You have the only persuasion tactics, if you're a left libertarian, which exists, you're basically saying, I like socialism, now I have to convince people that it's the right thing, and they'll agree with me.

01:58:13.000 And people just won't.

01:58:15.000 I find left libertarians less threatening to the American way of life.

01:58:15.000 People won't.

01:58:18.000 Oh, thank you.

01:58:19.000 Because you have a general distaste for authoritarianism.

01:58:23.000 Well, for what it's worth.

01:58:23.000 The right has money.

01:58:24.000 They're like, well, you won't agree with me, but I can give you money.

01:58:27.000 And they're like, the left does too.

01:58:28.000 Sorry, go ahead.

01:58:29.000 No, just want to say, for what it's worth, there are some people who call themselves socialists who I actually think would agree probably more with you than with me.

01:58:35.000 Like people who support China, for example.

01:58:37.000 China's not socialist, it's a rampant capitalist state.

01:58:39.000 It's a crony state.

01:58:41.000 I mean, whatever you want to call it, it's certainly not what I want. 1.00

01:58:44.000 China first!

01:58:45.000 Let's go, Chairman Xi.

01:58:45.000 I can't help but think.

01:58:47.000 Conservative, what would you call them?

01:58:48.000 Traditionalist social positions.

01:58:50.000 I will defend a strong common will that holds the betterment of the Chinese and the free market.

01:58:57.000 I don't know.

01:58:58.000 Maybe that'll be, what would they call that?

01:58:59.000 The Red Brown Alliance?

01:59:00.000 No, I'm joking.

01:59:02.000 In a way.

01:59:03.000 I've got a question for Charlie.

01:59:04.000 Sure.

01:59:04.000 I'm not sure.

01:59:05.000 Are you familiar with Alden's theory?

01:59:07.000 No.

01:59:08.000 You're not?

01:59:08.000 Oh, okay.

01:59:09.000 Then I guess I want to answer that question then.

01:59:11.000 All right.

01:59:12.000 Then the next question would be for both of you what is the single biggest political issue for each of you in Charlie Wee?

01:59:17.000 You want to answer first?

01:59:19.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a great question.

01:59:20.000 Political.

01:59:21.000 I'm sorry, for 2022.

01:59:22.000 Oh, like, I could take that anyway, I guess, right?

01:59:25.000 You know, what should Republicans run on, I guess?

01:59:27.000 Or, like, what is the biggest issue?

01:59:28.000 What's the most important electoral?

01:59:30.000 Yeah, I mean, man, it's, I'd say the way we do elections in our country is definitely up there.

01:59:36.000 Big tech is massive, immigration is huge.

01:59:40.000 But I think even something more fundamental that I was trying, I think we almost achieved it tonight, which is that we're about to tear this country apart.

01:59:46.000 And I think dialogue is something that is so beautiful and is so complex.

01:59:51.000 And almost spiritual in nature, that if we don't have dialogue with people that you fundamentally disagree with, then there's really not a middle ground until you start ripping each other apart.

02:00:01.000 I'm really afraid of that.

02:00:03.000 What's your biggest issue of 2022?

02:00:06.000 I agree that the political rift is almost insurmountable, seeming.

02:00:11.000 The last time we had won this bad was pre Civil War, and we didn't really fix it.

02:00:15.000 We just had a Civil War, and people were still mad after.

02:00:19.000 I hope that doesn't happen.

02:00:19.000 I don't think we're going to have a Civil War, by the way.

02:00:21.000 There are some people.

02:00:23.000 I think that.

02:00:24.000 At the end of the day, there's a big difference between the problems we're told to care about and the problems we're willing to fight about.

02:00:30.000 And I'm not entirely sure if I know where those lines are, but I know there's a difference.

02:00:34.000 With regards to what I'd care about, for me, it has to be climate change.

02:00:37.000 I know a lot of people roll their eyes at this stuff, but you can take a look at the polar ice caps.

02:00:41.000 You can take a look at the weather disasters we've been having, increasing both in frequency and intensity.

02:00:46.000 This isn't like a.

02:00:47.000 Look, think of it this way, okay?

02:00:49.000 I believe in American industry, all right?

02:00:51.000 It's a little too late for us to be first comers, but if we really wanted to, we could subsidize the hell out of green energy.

02:00:55.000 You think we're doing it now?

02:00:56.000 Triple that, okay?

02:00:58.000 Really lay the groundwork.

02:00:59.000 In 20 years, we'll be selling the rest of the world the energy they'll need to survive.

02:01:03.000 You know what really breaks my heart?

02:01:05.000 The video I made before the actual Green New Deal, talking about how we needed a Green New Deal, and then AOC's Green New Deal was like equity and college and healthcare, and then the botched FAQ.

02:01:17.000 I was like, I'm talking about why are we spending money on war when we could be researching green technologies and more efficient energy, thorium salt reactors, things like that, get fusion to ignite. 0.57

02:01:27.000 Instead, we get this like racial equity garbage bill. 0.75

02:01:31.000 I had this.

02:01:33.000 I do like the Reno Deal, but I had this problem too with that Teachers Union Board, the one that affirmed CRT, said they're going to support it.

02:01:39.000 The National Education Association.

02:01:41.000 Yeah, it was also a union.

02:01:42.000 The NEA, that's what it is.

02:01:44.000 It's the largest teacher union in the country.

02:01:45.000 Because they, and first of all, what they said wasn't CRT, but I'll take that up with them if I can.

02:01:49.000 They did, and still, they got that wrong.

02:01:53.000 So if I ever argue with it.

02:01:55.000 They mean what we've been taught wokeism.

02:01:57.000 Yeah, I just, oh man, because the theory is cool.

02:02:01.000 You wouldn't agree with it, but it's interesting.

02:02:03.000 No, I do not think it's cool.

02:02:06.000 The theory is awesome.

02:02:07.000 It's like the theory of communism.

02:02:08.000 We should have a class, a philosophy class, where you learn about critical race theory.

02:02:12.000 Teaching it in practice to children is a different idea.

02:02:15.000 So, I actually, in response to my absolute failure in giving you the adequate response in our last conversation, did pull up Critical Race Theory by Kimberly Crenshaw and actually read what she was talking about.

02:02:26.000 And I think the idea of the oppressed versus oppressor in race is a horrible thing when we're trying to get away from that.

02:02:32.000 And I had a conversation with an actual racist recently.

02:02:35.000 And the ideas to me are absolutely nonsensical to base things on race.

02:02:39.000 Coming from an actual racist who was advocating for the same things in that book, I was like, So you're happy with the stuff?

02:02:44.000 Like, well, no, because the wrong side's in charge.

02:02:46.000 And then I had to explain to them, I do not see the world the way you do. 1.00

02:02:49.000 And he says, Well, that's the trouble with race mixing.

02:02:51.000 And that's, and then, no, but that's exactly, this is what I see when I talk to people who are in favor of critical race theory's core ideology and white nationalists. 0.97

02:03:00.000 They tell me the same garbage in different ways.

02:03:02.000 Look, I have always been a firm supporter of the idea that the ideas should be what's criticized, not like the people who make them. 0.79

02:03:09.000 Sometimes, for example, people will make fun of me because I talk on class issues and I'm from Beverly Hills and I accept the jibing.

02:03:14.000 You know, it's fine.

02:03:15.000 But I think anyone can speak on this stuff.

02:03:17.000 To be fair, this is id poll and everyone does it to an extent. 1.00

02:03:20.000 Candace Owens will deflect criticisms of racism by saying she's black. 1.00

02:03:24.000 We've all seen people do this.

02:03:25.000 The only thing I wanted to say, because I have to move back like six points here, is that with regards to the teachers' board, yeah, you spoke on, and the Green New Deal, I sometimes feel like the left is a little bit bad when it comes to mixing all their causes.

02:03:38.000 If they, speaking of separatism, If they kept things a little bit more stringent, a little more focused, maybe they could get people to agree on some of it.

02:03:45.000 But if every push for climate change is also every other progressive note, and every push for racial equality is every other progressive note, it feels like it's like an all or nothing package.

02:03:55.000 And I think that can put some people off.

02:03:56.000 I wanted to just clarify quickly and to inject my id poll, as you mentioned, you know, Candace Owens would do it.

02:04:02.000 I would.

02:04:02.000 And a lot of people are always mentioning, you know, Tim Pool mentions he's mixed race.

02:04:05.000 And I'm like, maybe that's why you'll understand when people are writing like whiteness this and people of color that. 0.96

02:04:10.000 I'm like, I don't exist in that world.

02:04:12.000 Because I've been discriminated against by all of these people.

02:04:15.000 And when that person said to me, you know, the perils of mixed racing or race mixing, he's talking about me personally, saying, I don't understand the tribalist worldview of racialists and identitarians because I've never experienced what it means to be in a racial tribe.

02:04:27.000 And you know what? 1.00

02:04:28.000 I think he's right.

02:04:29.000 And that's why I love the classical liberal view of opposition against racism, judging people based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. 0.65

02:04:37.000 Because I see this world that's being built critical of whiteness. 0.68

02:04:41.000 That includes me. 0.68

02:04:42.000 But then it's always the negative.

02:04:45.000 Every experience I've ever had. 0.94

02:04:46.000 Be it from white nationalists or from critical race theorists, is that you are bad for whatever reason.

02:04:51.000 I do not want to live in a world where race is the predeterminate policymaker or factor on these things.

02:04:57.000 And you know what?

02:04:58.000 For the progressives to come out right now and claim civil rights and say we did all these things and then tell me I now face that detriment, I'm like, you know what, man?

02:05:06.000 My grandparents, civil rights activists, race mixers, my actual parents also mix in races and stuff.

02:05:12.000 And I'm like, I can now look at the progressives who are putting a detriment on my life and insulting me no matter what I do.

02:05:19.000 And the white nationalists who vandalized my home as a child.

02:05:22.000 And it's the world that you're taking credit for that you're trying not to put in detriment for people like me.

02:05:28.000 It could, to me, be a matter of perception as well.

02:05:31.000 I've read a lot of academic critiques of whiteness, which isn't white people.

02:05:34.000 It's sort of.

02:05:36.000 That's not true at all.

02:05:37.000 Well, it's an academic term to describe affectations associated with white people culturally, more so than the actual act of being.

02:05:45.000 But black and brown literally means black and brown.

02:05:46.000 If there was a critique of blackness, what would you think of that? 0.96

02:05:49.000 Well, if it was an academic term used in that way, then I would think of it the same way. 0.94

02:05:53.000 But since there isn't such a term, I would have to be critical.

02:05:56.000 Look, regardless of the etymology of the term, in concept, it's meant to be like you know the term toxic masculinity?

02:06:03.000 You ever heard it once or twice?

02:06:05.000 A couple times, you know.

02:06:06.000 When I read stuff like that, it's interesting stuff, you know.

02:06:08.000 I don't think of this as all men are bad, all masculinity is bad.

02:06:11.000 It's more of a salient critique of certain cultural trends.

02:06:14.000 Now, the problem that I have is essentialism.

02:06:17.000 Some people will take this on both the left and the right, and they'll think of it as an individual critique, which it should never be used as.

02:06:24.000 If I were to say something like, imagine I'm reading MLK back in 19.

02:06:28.000 That's kind of ironic, don't you think?

02:06:29.000 MLK had some things to say about white people back during his era.

02:06:32.000 He would say that, you know, the whites of this era were.

02:06:34.000 Or when we say something about black people, it's predetermined public. 0.59

02:06:38.000 Policy. 0.87

02:06:39.000 This is a non essentialist critique.

02:06:40.000 He didn't believe in racial essentialism.

02:06:42.000 He wouldn't go up to an individual white person and judge them negatively for that.

02:06:46.000 But he understood that as a cultural trend, this is indeed a pattern he recognized.

02:06:49.000 So massive group stereotyping.

02:06:51.000 Well, massive group stereotyping that's been done by every civil rights movement to have ever existed.

02:06:56.000 Maybe the issue isn't the stereotyping so much as the way it's being applied and used.

02:07:01.000 If the stereotyping is, I notice there's a big difference in abolitionist thoughts between white and black people in Southern America, in 1852. 0.99

02:07:11.000 Maybe that's the kind of stereotyping that can be used for good. 0.84

02:07:14.000 Also, stereotyping by definition is assuming characteristics of an individual because they're part of a group.

02:07:19.000 That's close to what MLK was saying when he said white liberals.

02:07:22.000 You wouldn't apply it to an individual, though.

02:07:22.000 I mean, that's.

02:07:24.000 I mean, I've made comments about groups, people who play League of Legends, degenerates, a lot of them.

02:07:31.000 But I know people who play League of Legends.

02:07:33.000 And when I talk about people who play League of Legends, I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about people who play League of Legends.

02:07:40.000 So I want to ask you about the climate change thing.

02:07:42.000 Um, What do you think is a bigger threat, climate change or China?

02:07:46.000 To the world or to America? 0.71

02:07:48.000 To you, the world, America.

02:07:49.000 I think it's still climate change. 0.74

02:07:50.000 I think China's probably going to replace us as the dominant power.

02:07:53.000 I'm not really happy about that because we are more democratic than they are in terms of our political structure. 0.75

02:07:58.000 If they had a better democracy, I might favor them over us because I don't really care about national allegiances.

02:08:03.000 But we are more democratic than them.

02:08:06.000 The climate change thing is an issue that will affect us all, though. 1.00

02:08:08.000 The big one's going to be climate refugees. 1.00

02:08:10.000 There are a lot of low lying coastal communities that are going to be inhospitable to life in about 40 years. 1.00

02:08:16.000 They're going to move out into populated areas, and there's going to be border conflicts and war.

02:08:22.000 We're not going to be able to get to every single.

02:08:22.000 It's going to be tough.

02:08:24.000 I'm so sorry.

02:08:25.000 No, no, no, no.

02:08:25.000 It's no big deal because I think it's more important that you guys are having these arguments.

02:08:29.000 So I'm not going to interrupt you when you're actually debating the ideas.

02:08:30.000 That's the point.

02:08:32.000 But a lot of people did Super Chat.

02:08:33.000 Just know that you guys, Super Chat's greatly appreciated.

02:08:36.000 There's a whole lot of them. 0.54

02:08:37.000 So, but I've got one critical for you, Vosh.

02:08:37.000 We love you.

02:08:42.000 Hit me up.

02:08:43.000 Nasho Nabo says Vosh is a black person who grew up in majority white areas.

02:08:47.000 Those conversations are very demoralizing to be a part of.

02:08:50.000 I don't doubt your intentions, but it's best to speak to people affected by your ideas before trying to implement them as our white savior.

02:08:58.000 I don't appreciate the white savior critique because that's just the opposite end of id poll, isn't it?

02:09:03.000 Saying that I'm less inclined to talk about these issues because I'm white.

02:09:06.000 Like, that's kind of like the opposite thing. 0.93

02:09:08.000 I agree.

02:09:08.000 I think address the idea.

02:09:09.000 I agree with that too.

02:09:10.000 But with regards to like the implementation here, obviously, like social problems like this, addressing them is going to be contentious no matter what.

02:09:19.000 I don't know if there's a way to do this, to fix any problem, even the most obvious problems.

02:09:22.000 Today we think slavery, obviously that's bad, but.

02:09:24.000 Clearly, there was some disagreement.

02:09:26.000 With issues like this, there's going to be disagreement.

02:09:29.000 I don't know if there's a perfect way to handle it.

02:09:31.000 Anything is going to mix people up.

02:09:33.000 I have to balance that concern with the hope that people are more accepting of these issues.

02:09:40.000 A good example of that would be like gender stuff, for example.

02:09:43.000 In terms of like, if you look at it generationally, from boomers to Gen Z, Gen Z people are like 30 times as likely to know a person who identifies as trans or non binary or whatever.

02:09:54.000 And for that reason, conversations on those subjects have become significantly easier just because people have been exposed to the concept.

02:10:00.000 Maybe in time this will be easier.

02:10:02.000 Maybe I'll fail.

02:10:04.000 We'll all fail and it won't be.

02:10:06.000 But I am sorry that these conversations are difficult.

02:10:10.000 All right.

02:10:11.000 Let's see.

02:10:12.000 Well, I got to be honest. 0.97

02:10:13.000 The overwhelming majority of the Super Chats are just saying thank you for having a conversation.

02:10:18.000 Those are the overwhelming majority ones that I copied.

02:10:20.000 I was looking at it.

02:10:20.000 No, no, no.

02:10:21.000 Yeah, they are.

02:10:21.000 I thought you had all the questions.

02:10:23.000 So I was like, okay, I can see everyone very excited.

02:10:24.000 That's why I read the first one.

02:10:27.000 And some people have pointed out that in a conversational format, you are both less.

02:10:33.000 Less derisive and divisive in your arguments.

02:10:38.000 All YouTubers should be nice in my streams.

02:10:41.000 So here's an interesting and kind of specific question.

02:10:45.000 Joshua Alley asks Should courts decide cases based on rule of law and precedence, or decide each case based entirely on rationality and morality? 1.00

02:10:56.000 What a stupid question. 0.99

02:10:57.000 Yeah, it needs to be a balance. 1.00

02:10:58.000 Precedence definitely matters, especially in the American system.

02:11:03.000 And The idea of the whole third branch of government really kind of came into question with Marbury versus Madison, with the first Supreme Court Justice of the United States, John Jay, I believe, who was one of the co authors of the Federalist Papers.

02:11:16.000 Precedent is important, but it's not everything.

02:11:17.000 And this is a super important thing that conservatives need to talk more about, which I think you would agree with, Vosh, is that precedents can be really bad. 0.91

02:11:25.000 Dred Scott was awful precedent.

02:11:26.000 It was really bad. 0.90

02:11:27.000 It was seven Democrat U.S. Supreme Court justices, two Democrats that said black people were not people.

02:11:33.000 And that precedent was.

02:11:35.000 In law, basically, for many decades until it was eventually reversed, largely because of the Brown versus Board of Education.

02:11:41.000 But precedent also is helpful so that you don't turn the courts into another legislative branch, right?

02:11:48.000 So the courts are supposed to be very unique and they're supposed to be deliberative, process oriented, say no to more cases than they say yes to.

02:11:57.000 And so the question is where do you strike that balance?

02:12:00.000 Alexander Hamilton predicted that it would be mostly based on public opinion.

02:12:05.000 Judges are still people too, and they're going to look to public opinion.

02:12:08.000 This goes to more of a Democratic argument than a Republic style argument.

02:12:12.000 I will defend precedent more than overturning, but I definitely think the court has gone wrong in a variety of different decisions in the last 60 years.

02:12:21.000 And I think that what happens is you have very activist decisions, and then they decide not to look at it again under a conservative belief of precedent.

02:12:30.000 I think I would lean more towards precedent.

02:12:32.000 You have more than 15 minutes to discuss.

02:12:33.000 Sorry, as well, though maybe for a different reason.

02:12:36.000 I think it's because we need accountability.

02:12:38.000 The problem is, if judicial decisions are entirely at the discretion of the judge, it becomes very difficult to correct legal trends through anything other than appoint better judges, which can be an incredibly long standing process.

02:12:51.000 And even then, it's what a crapshoot?

02:12:52.000 I mean, you don't know everyone's opinion on everything.

02:12:54.000 That being said, I do think that to an extent, judges are legislators.

02:12:59.000 This is actually a critical legal theory perspective, which fed into CRT the idea that within the bounds of discretion, judges will almost always side with the political biases they have.

02:13:11.000 And that's not like a dig on any side.

02:13:12.000 That's just what we are.

02:13:14.000 That judges who identify as liberal or conservative will overwhelmingly side with each other in the plurality of cases because our biases do it.

02:13:20.000 What is even the argument that we have to recognize that's a reality?

02:13:24.000 But we do have to constrain the process through judicial precedent.

02:13:27.000 It's just. 1.00

02:13:28.000 Particularly Vosh. 0.59

02:13:30.000 I just want to point out, one of the Super Chats noted that we were trending. 0.98

02:13:33.000 Oh, is that right?

02:13:34.000 And so I'm like, all right.

02:13:34.000 On Twitter or on YouTube?

02:13:35.000 On Twitter, but it says content creator Vosh debates with radio talk show host Charlie Kirk on Twitch.

02:13:41.000 Oh.

02:13:42.000 Oh, we're not on Twitch.

02:13:43.000 Oh, no, that's Amazon Prime.

02:13:43.000 Are we on Twitch?

02:13:45.000 It's on YouTube.

02:13:47.000 I just thought it was funny that it was on YouTube.

02:13:48.000 Well, at least we're trending.

02:13:49.000 But it's like, how did you get that wrong?

02:13:51.000 Unless somebody's like screen grabbing it.

02:13:53.000 Hey, listen, after the Twitter trending title descriptor had to spend like six weeks in a row describing everything that happened with those Minecraft. YouTubers.

02:14:02.000 I feel like this is a.

02:14:03.000 They're a little bit off their game.

02:14:06.000 Maybe somebody is re streaming it on Twitch or whatever.

02:14:09.000 It's just copyright infringement.

02:14:10.000 I'm just kidding.

02:14:11.000 I know that Shu did a live stream commentating on it.

02:14:11.000 It is.

02:14:14.000 Go on, Tim.

02:14:15.000 Look at this.

02:14:15.000 Oh, really?

02:14:16.000 Maybe that was on Twitch.

02:14:17.000 So we got one from Dylan Perrick.

02:14:17.000 All right.

02:14:19.000 He says Do you guys think philosophy could be taught instead of CRT, like Plato's Allegory and the Cave?

02:14:25.000 In my opinion, stuff like this helps people better understand one another individually.

02:14:30.000 Wow.

02:14:31.000 I'm hugely in favor of more theoretical classes being taught to high schoolers.

02:14:36.000 Philosophy, sociology, and philosophy.

02:14:38.000 Wow, what a galaxy, man.

02:14:40.000 Cosmic.

02:14:41.000 What if we taught anything about philosophy?

02:14:44.000 What if we taught anything about philosophy?

02:14:46.000 It's just we agree.

02:14:48.000 Because that will destroy them if they don't.

02:14:51.000 Why don't we teach them that?

02:14:52.000 Philosophy, everyone should be learned on, just flat out.

02:14:55.000 I think that's a moral necessity.

02:14:57.000 And when it comes to sociology, I'm not even talking left leaning inclinations on that.

02:15:01.000 I mean the basic ability to read statistics.

02:15:04.000 Should we teach philosophy in school?

02:15:05.000 What a notion.

02:15:06.000 Because for the rest of their lives, they're going to be able to vote based on political.

02:15:09.000 Information.

02:15:10.000 They don't have the education to understand.

02:15:12.000 Yeah, I mean, philosophy comes from a Greek word, love of wisdom, philosophos, and we definitely don't have that in our country.

02:15:18.000 I'm a big fan of teaching.

02:15:20.000 I just want to say it correctly.

02:15:21.000 I'd say a lot less Nietzsche and Kant and Hume and a lot more Aristotle and Locke and Aquinas and Augustine.

02:15:28.000 And I think the problem is, though, if philosophy, if left un, if not, so Plato would say this.

02:15:33.000 So Plato would say, I'm not going to teach philosophy until you could do advanced Euclidean geometry.

02:15:37.000 It was his rule.

02:15:39.000 Now, why would he have that rule?

02:15:40.000 It's like if you can't think rationally and be able to determine good ideas from bad ideas in the empirical, I'm not going to even get close to teaching you about the allegory of the cave or the ship or Plato's Republic or the forms.

02:15:51.000 So I think there's actually something to that, that if you introduce philosophy too early, you can create kind of one liner philosophers that think they understand the entire world.

02:16:01.000 And it really goes to that expression the more I know, the more I realize how little I knew when I thought I knew it all.

02:16:05.000 That's kind of that idea of daring to know.

02:16:08.000 People should not be taught philosophy.

02:16:10.000 A scientist who worked in the Manhattan.

02:16:11.000 People should be taught to obey the state and shut up and eat from their troughs.

02:16:19.000 This is what happens when you teach people philosophy.

02:16:21.000 I'd love to talk to you about religion.

02:16:22.000 Just like where you think that fits into a functioning discipline.

02:16:24.000 We should all just be on treadmills.

02:16:26.000 This would be really, really interesting.

02:16:27.000 The only people that should learn philosophy will be the members of the second division.

02:16:32.000 And for everybody who super chatted, I know I really wish I could get to every single question and comment, but when you guys, we ask a question and you guys have that debate, that's the point of this.

02:16:41.000 So, you know, I. Try to do as many as we could.

02:16:43.000 I do like talking.

02:16:44.000 I just thought it was better to let you guys talk instead of constantly trying to just cut off the actual discussion and the flow of things.

02:16:49.000 So, my apologies to everybody who super chatted.

02:16:51.000 But if you go to TimCast.com, become a member, we are going to now have another conversation, which I don't believe will be up by 11 p.m. this time because debating religion, I absolutely love the religious conversations we've had on this show on TimCast IRL.

02:17:03.000 So, it'll be at TimCast.com.

02:17:04.000 Smash that like button, subscribe to the show, share it with your friends.

02:17:08.000 Please smash the dislike.

02:17:10.000 You can follow us at TimCast IRL.

02:17:12.000 You can follow me at TimCast.

02:17:13.000 Do you guys want to mention any social media stuff?

02:17:15.000 If you guys could subscribe to the YouTube channel and hit the bell, we'd be blessed by that.

02:17:18.000 And also check out rumble.com so you don't get censored.

02:17:20.000 R U M B L D dot com. 1.00

02:17:24.000 My name is Vosh and I'm on YouTube. 1.00

02:17:25.000 That's V A U S H. 0.90

02:17:29.000 I hate both of them. 1.00

02:17:29.000 I don't know. 1.00

02:17:30.000 They're all phony and they're all phony.

02:17:32.000 And vote Biden for more censorship to add, to expand upon these things.

02:17:37.000 Don't do it.

02:17:38.000 Talk to you.

02:17:38.000 Make good decisions.

02:17:40.000 Make good decisions.

02:17:41.000 Yeah.

02:17:41.000 Yeah, they're your doctor.

02:17:41.000 Talk to your doctor about what's right for you.

02:17:43.000 Don't take medical opinions where people have no idea.

02:17:45.000 Of course.

02:17:46.000 Talk to your doctor about voting for Biden.

02:17:48.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

02:17:50.000 Hey, depending on where you live, your doctor might say no. 0.65

02:17:52.000 It's all so fucking funny. 0.84

02:17:54.000 This is great, man. 0.93

02:17:55.000 And there's a lot of super chats.

02:17:56.000 People are pointing out, like, They don't even have you don't have to agree with anyone here, just the fact that we're having conversation is like the spirit of freedom, yeah, man.

02:18:05.000 Except for me, except for the guy that's on the no fly list that's on our FBI investigation and banned from everything.

02:18:12.000 No, but we can't talk for me, yeah.

02:18:14.000 I'm not read up on uh religious uh theory, so five proofs of God, you better be ready to go through the super chat.

02:18:22.000 All right, uh, Lydia, oh, yeah, I'm also here in the corner.

02:18:24.000 This is wonderful conversation.

02:18:26.000 I was actually at the bar earlier today and enjoying conversations that somebody just picked.

02:18:31.000 Up somebody else.

02:18:32.000 It's like, you know what?

02:18:33.000 And I love it.

02:18:33.000 He's right.

02:18:34.000 I love being able to just have this kind of conversation.

02:18:36.000 I really miss that about our society.

02:18:38.000 So here's what I want to do.

02:18:39.000 Definitely with the answer.

02:18:41.000 I really want to dive in and question socialism.

02:18:43.000 And we'll start with talking about religion.

02:18:45.000 And then go to timcast.com.

02:18:46.000 Members only segment will be up when it's up because we're not going to go forever, but we'll probably have a good conversation.

02:18:51.000 So thanks for hanging out for the live version.

02:18:54.000 And we'll see you all in an hour or so over at timcast.com.

02:18:57.000 Again, sincere thanks to everybody who hung out.

02:18:59.000 Smash that like button on your way out.

02:19:01.000 Bye, guys.

02:19:01.000 And we'll see you soon.

02:19:04.000 Okay.

02:19:07.000 All right.

02:19:14.000 Well, there you have it.

02:19:17.000 That's our debate.

02:19:19.000 That wasn't a debate.

02:19:20.000 That was a discussion. 0.99

02:19:22.000 And it sucked. 0.98

02:19:26.000 I'm muting that now. 0.71

02:19:30.000 And let me do this.

02:19:32.000 Okay.

02:19:34.000 So there you have it.

02:19:35.000 That's the Charlie Kirk Vosh debate live on Timcast IRL, live from West Virginia.

02:19:44.000 Whoops.

02:19:45.000 Whoa. 0.95

02:19:46.000 Let's turn off autoplay there.

02:19:51.000 What do we got in the recommendations?

02:19:52.000 PewDiePie, Elijah Schaefer.

02:19:56.000 This is what we have now.

02:19:58.000 This is all that we have.

02:19:59.000 Lo fi, slightly offensive with Elijah Schaefer.

02:20:03.000 John Doyle, lo fi, PewDiePie.

02:20:08.000 This is the discourse, this is the political dialogue.

02:20:11.000 Tim Pool, John Doyle, Elijah Schaefer, Avash, Charlie Kirk.

02:20:18.000 It's very enriching, and we're all glad that everyone is having conversations.

02:20:22.000 We're just glad to be having the conversation.

02:20:26.000 Can I just say, excuse me if I may, apologies if I'm interrupting, but if I may, can I just say that I am so flabeeping impressed that we're sitting around here talking to each other civilly, even though we disagree?

02:20:48.000 It's insulting.

02:20:49.000 It's insulting.

02:20:50.000 It's insulting to my intelligence that I would have to sit through and watch that.

02:20:55.000 We finished it.

02:20:55.000 But we did.

02:20:56.000 Two and a half hours of Vosh and Charlie Kirk going at it.

02:21:01.000 Let me put something up on the screen.

02:21:04.000 I guess I'll just put lo fi in the background here.

02:21:13.000 We got an advertisement.

02:21:18.000 Let me just do this, like this.

02:21:24.000 Do, Is that going to work?

02:21:31.000 Okay. 1.00

02:21:33.000 So let's just have her on in the background. 1.00

02:21:35.000 Let's just have her in the background.

02:21:42.000 Let me put it on. 0.99

02:21:43.000 Let's put some music on.

02:21:49.000 Is it on?

02:21:54.000 Yeah, I'm relating to that.

02:21:57.000 Uh, yeah, uh, like that, uh, Roy Burr. 0.76

02:22:09.000 Um, I want to kill myself after watching that.

02:22:16.000 I don't want to be alive anymore, but all right, enough complaining.

02:22:21.000 I want to get through the super chats, but first, I just want to summarize briefly.

02:22:24.000 My thoughts, you know.

02:22:28.000 Here's the thing here's the thing.

02:22:29.000 It's interesting for a few reasons.

02:22:32.000 Number one, the debate, the reason why this is interesting is for a few reasons.

02:22:36.000 Number one, it's because Charlie Kirk and Vosh are not like, they're not similar.

02:22:43.000 They come from different worlds.

02:22:45.000 You know, Vosh comes from Twitch and from YouTube, and he's a live streamer.

02:22:49.000 Charlie Kirk really comes from a more conventional political background.

02:22:54.000 Charlie Kirk is, you could say, a professional activist.

02:22:57.000 Vosh is.

02:22:58.000 Is an amateur streamer.

02:22:59.000 He's a popular streamer and rapidly growing, but an amateur one.

02:23:03.000 And so, you know, it's interesting because Vosh getting on Tim Pool, it's a big opportunity for him.

02:23:09.000 And the debate with Charlie Kirk in itself confers credibility on Vosh because Charlie Kirk is a conventional and a high profile political actor.

02:23:18.000 Charlie Kirk is an ally of former President Donald Trump.

02:23:22.000 Vosh is a live streamer, right?

02:23:26.000 So, Charlie Kirk agreeing to debate Vosh, appear on the same debate with him in itself, legitimizes Vosh and elevates him.

02:23:35.000 I don't know that Charlie Kirk is as or even more popular than Vosh.

02:23:39.000 I don't know if he could get a Comparable live stream audience on the internet.

02:23:43.000 He may get a comparable radio audience or listenership on a podcast, but the demographic cohort is different that would follow him on that medium.

02:23:52.000 So I'm not saying that he's as popular or more popular.

02:23:55.000 I'm saying that in terms of legitimization, he comes from a more conventional and legitimate political background. 0.75

02:24:02.000 So already by agreeing to come to the table, it benefits Vosh. 0.67

02:24:07.000 It just does.

02:24:08.000 I don't know that there's a big benefit from Charlie Kirk other than.

02:24:12.000 He becomes part of this conversation on this medium for a younger audience and for a different audience than he's used to.

02:24:22.000 Charlie Kirk is seen as an establishment actor.

02:24:25.000 I mean, people look at him and they see a conservative partisan.

02:24:29.000 But the Tim Pool show and debating with Vosh, it's generationally different.

02:24:35.000 And it's also sort of like part of the political realignment that's been happening since the 2016 election.

02:24:42.000 So, Charlie Kirk, by inserting himself, does legitimize Vosh, but at the same time, It also might change people's perspective on Charlie Kirk, and maybe they see him less, again, as a conservative or Republican partisan and more as, I don't know, maybe they see him as a young voice with maybe something different to say.

02:25:03.000 So he has an opportunity to change people's expectations or their perception of him.

02:25:07.000 So that's what I'll say right out of the gate.

02:25:09.000 That's why it's interesting to have that matchup because they're not similar.

02:25:13.000 They're not similar in that regard.

02:25:14.000 They're the same age, though.

02:25:15.000 I didn't know that.

02:25:16.000 I think Kirk said he's what?

02:25:18.000 27 or 28. 1.00

02:25:19.000 Vosh is 27.

02:25:21.000 Anyway, so the debate started off.

02:25:24.000 The two topics they were supposed to talk about were coronavirus and critical race theory.

02:25:28.000 The coronavirus debate was short, but it was very focused.

02:25:32.000 The CRT debate was sort of meandering and unfocused and long and drawn out.

02:25:37.000 And it was interesting because Charlie Kirk, with the coronavirus debate, came out very strong right out of the gate.

02:25:44.000 He knew what he wanted to say, he knew what he wanted to press, and he was very aggressive.

02:25:49.000 He would interrupt Vosh, he was asking lots of questions.

02:25:53.000 He had a command of the facts.

02:25:55.000 I'll give him that.

02:25:55.000 I think he had a very good command of the facts.

02:25:58.000 And so that debate was kind of interesting.

02:26:00.000 But, you know, from the beginning, although it was more confrontational and although it was more combative and although Charlie Kirk was more aggressive, from the get go, he was conceding lots of ground.

02:26:10.000 And this is what I've always said about conservatives they always do this.

02:26:14.000 They will always concede far more ground than they need to.

02:26:17.000 In other words, you know, the point of a debate is that two opposing sides opposed to one another, meaning differentiated.

02:26:25.000 And opposed on the key points, come together to clash and argue their sides.

02:26:30.000 There's a purpose for this.

02:26:31.000 The purpose is not to achieve a resolution, the purpose is not to build a consensus.

02:26:36.000 The purpose of having two opposing sides meet and exchange ideas and have a crosstalk is so that the audience, the moderator is there so that there can be a sort of clear exchange, but the purpose for the audience is so that people can hear and discern for themselves which arguments are more compelling.

02:26:59.000 And then they will decide where they fall along the spectrum.

02:27:03.000 Do they agree totally with one side or parts of the other side?

02:27:08.000 And conservatives, what they will do is they will, in an attempt to build consensus, an attempt to be agreeable, they will move their position so that it is less differentiated from the opposing side and it's not as opposed to the other side.

02:27:24.000 They'll moderate their position.

02:27:26.000 They'll moderate their position because they think that if they show up with a more moderate position, that they, as a personality, will be more appealing to the audience.

02:27:36.000 So it's really not about the debate of the ideas, it's really more about the rehabilitation of a personal brand.

02:27:41.000 That's what conservatives do.

02:27:43.000 They're not going out there to make a compelling conservative case.

02:27:46.000 They're going out there to make a case for their personal brand.

02:27:50.000 And they're doing that by making their personal brand more agreeable and more moderate and less divisive and less polar.

02:27:59.000 But that's not the purpose of a debate.

02:28:03.000 But that's what conservatives do.

02:28:04.000 And so Charlie Kerr came into the debate, and did he say the vaccine is deadly and you shouldn't get it and it doesn't work and they're lying about it?

02:28:12.000 He came in and said, Well, I think you're a good guy, and I think you have good intentions, and I think we basically agree.

02:28:18.000 I'm just saying that I don't think I should get it.

02:28:20.000 And you always hear this kind of stuff.

02:28:21.000 All I'm saying is this.

02:28:23.000 I'm just saying this.

02:28:26.000 Minimizing and moderating the position they're staking out.

02:28:30.000 All I'm saying is this.

02:28:32.000 I don't disagree with the status quo that much.

02:28:35.000 I just have a small contention with it.

02:28:37.000 The problem with this, in particular, for conservatives is that all, all, Communication platforms are pushing for the opposite pole.

02:28:47.000 All social media, all of mainstream media, and the traditional television networks, radio stations, and newspapers, and print, and the think tanks, and so on, and the government bureaucracy, they're all pushing for the left wing position.

02:29:01.000 The left wing position that's all the way over there.

02:29:04.000 And conservatives say, well, I'm going to minimize my opposition to that.

02:29:09.000 I'm going to stake out the smallest, least controversial position possible.

02:29:13.000 It's close to the middle, right?

02:29:16.000 We need conservatives that will articulate the conservative poll. 0.99

02:29:20.000 Let people fall in the middle. 0.99

02:29:21.000 Let people fall to the right of the center. 0.99

02:29:24.000 Let them have a small contention.

02:29:26.000 Let them find something moderate to agree with.

02:29:29.000 But you have got to give them the full conservative case.

02:29:32.000 You've got to argue the full right wing case and a compelling right wing case, an alternative view of the world, not a contention with the world as it is.

02:29:41.000 And this fundamental misunderstanding is why the whole debate was a catastrophe.

02:29:47.000 Because the whole debate was about.

02:29:49.000 Trying to find consensus.

02:29:50.000 The whole debate was about trying to appease the other side, trying to come across as moderate, trying to minimize our opposition to the world as is.

02:29:59.000 But we oppose the world as it is.

02:30:01.000 And Charlie Kirk, if he's articulating this worldview about Aquinas and Aristotle and Augustine and about Christianity and about life and traditional marriage, that worldview is completely opposed to the world as it is.

02:30:15.000 It's not, well, we just believe in traditional marriage.

02:30:17.000 No, our whole worldview is different, our whole view of humanity is different.

02:30:23.000 The problem, though, is that Charlie Kirk just says those things because they're popular now.

02:30:27.000 That's not really his real worldview, and his talking points are not up to date.

02:30:31.000 The talking points about race essentialism or racialism, the talking points about the welfare state, the talking points about all this stuff, it's not updated.

02:30:40.000 It's not brought up to speed with the ideology he claims to now profess because this new line about America's our home and actually I think that everyone should put the nation before the individual and so on, these are just things that are in vogue to say now.

02:30:58.000 The scaffolding is still there from the old Prager U turning point ideology of socialism sucks.

02:31:03.000 So the guy doesn't even have the vocabulary.

02:31:06.000 The guy doesn't have the understanding.

02:31:08.000 It's obvious to defend his new worldview, his profoundly new worldview, profoundly different new worldview, which is more conservative.

02:31:17.000 That's the other thing I noticed.

02:31:18.000 The whole performance by Kirk is put on, it's an affect.

02:31:23.000 He's imitating Tucker Carlson.

02:31:25.000 He's doing a Tucker Carlson impression.

02:31:28.000 The tone with which he asks the questions, the sort of self, you know, I guess the mocking, serious tone.

02:31:37.000 You know, pay close enough attention.

02:31:38.000 If you watch a Tucker Carlson monologue or maybe even a Tucker Carlson debate or an interview with somebody disagrees with and compare it to this performance, it's a bad Tucker Carlson imitation.

02:31:49.000 And honestly, in terms of substance, that's what was wrong with all debate.

02:31:53.000 But before getting into that, I first want to say, broadly speaking, this is the problem with these debates conservatives don't go into them trying to create a compelling alternative vision for America.

02:32:07.000 And when I say alternative, I mean truly alternative.

02:32:11.000 Radical and shocking, but something that is resonant with people, but resonant in a way that is different from the liberal worldview.

02:32:19.000 Don't appeal to the liberal notion of empathy or equality or things like that.

02:32:25.000 Appeal to the right wing notion of excellence and discipline, maybe martial discipline and greatness and these kinds of things, Christian virtue, tradition.

02:32:36.000 You have to appeal to something different because you're arguing an alternative worldview.

02:32:40.000 So it has to be radically different.

02:32:43.000 Instead, conservatives go in and they're trying to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of the enemy.

02:32:47.000 Instead of going in and saying, I'm a conservative, I'm owning it, and I'm going to make everyone in here a conservative, they come in and say, I'm going to make these liberals think I'm not so bad.

02:32:58.000 That's the difference.

02:32:59.000 They don't go in and say, I'm going to defend conservatives, I'm going to prove I'm a conservative, and I'm going to make the case for the conservative worldview and I'm going to own it.

02:33:09.000 They go in there and they say, I want to look good in front of everybody, I want everyone to like me.

02:33:13.000 I want my enemy to respect me.

02:33:15.000 I want people to think I'm not so bad.

02:33:18.000 I don't want to insult my opponent because half the people watching are watching for my opponent.

02:33:23.000 And you don't win a debate like that.

02:33:25.000 Going back to the point of the debate, if the point of the debate is to make the best possible argument for your side, for the opposed side, that's not even what they're trying to do.

02:33:36.000 So certainly they're not going to be able to do that.

02:33:39.000 Then you have to get into tactics.

02:33:41.000 And on a purely tactical level, it's a total failure because.

02:33:46.000 I'm sure if you had a stopwatch and you just measured how long people were talking, Vosh probably talked for three quarters of the whole debate.

02:33:54.000 For the whole runtime of the debate, Vosh was talking for at least the majority of it.

02:34:00.000 And there's three people.

02:34:02.000 There's arguably like five people because there's Adam and there's the girl.

02:34:07.000 But there's a moderator and there's two opponents, and Vosh probably talked for well over half of the time.

02:34:14.000 And it wasn't a coincidence.

02:34:16.000 Vosh would.

02:34:17.000 Use his time and talk as long as he wanted.

02:34:20.000 Charlie Kirk, every time he got the floor, would use it to ask Bosch a question.

02:34:24.000 Ask him, Well, what do you believe?

02:34:25.000 What are you against?

02:34:26.000 And what do you think, Tim?

02:34:27.000 And I don't want to interrupt.

02:34:28.000 It was like, you know, you remember Joe Biden during the Democratic debates?

02:34:31.000 Joe Biden, the last 10 seconds of his allotted time for an answer, he would say, Oh, I'm sorry.

02:34:38.000 Am I over time?

02:34:39.000 Give it back to the moderator.

02:34:42.000 I talked a lot about this during the presidential debates, and I talked a lot about this on my show.

02:34:48.000 It's all about attention.

02:34:49.000 It's all about eyeballs.

02:34:50.000 You know, when you are trying to make your case, this is just strategic.

02:34:55.000 You want to use every moment that the camera is on you, every moment that the microphone, that you have the microphone, and every word that you say, every syllable out of your mouth is advancing your worldview.

02:35:06.000 It's framing the conversation from your perspective.

02:35:11.000 You know, so even that's why going on the defensive is a bad tactic because if you're going on the defensive, what are you doing?

02:35:18.000 You're arguing the other person's worldview from their frame, but just from a different perspective.

02:35:26.000 But you're within their world.

02:35:28.000 If Vosh goes in and says, you know, well, I think you're like a fascist, you're like the 1930s, and Charlie Kirk says, well, no, I'm not, and here's X, Y, and Z, Y.

02:35:35.000 Well, what's the positive claim that's being argued? 0.97

02:35:38.000 You are a fascist.

02:35:40.000 You're spending your time where the camera's on you and you've got the microphone to discuss their claim, to discuss their worldview. 0.94

02:35:47.000 That's why being on the defensive is a terrible thing.

02:35:49.000 That's why people pivot.

02:35:51.000 That's why in presidential debates, people get annoyed by this, but the moderator asks a question and the candidate will say, Well, that's a great question, but really, I love America, and this is my five point plan.

02:36:01.000 Because it's about milking the time.

02:36:03.000 It's not about your goal is not to answer the question.

02:36:07.000 Your goal is not to be a good sport.

02:36:08.000 The goal is to sell people, it's to sell people on your ideology.

02:36:12.000 A McDonald's commercial does not spend time answering why McDonald's is unhealthy and why people prefer Burger King sometimes.

02:36:20.000 It's about, look at our hamburger.

02:36:21.000 It's so juicy and it's cheap and everyone's loving it and everything.

02:36:25.000 The same premise applies in marketing and politics.

02:36:28.000 To a debate.

02:36:29.000 This is just basic stuff.

02:36:31.000 And so, Charlie Kirk not using time, not claiming time, passing his time off, using his time to answer rebuttals, using his time to ask the other person a question.

02:36:40.000 What do you do when you ask the other person a question?

02:36:42.000 You give them time.

02:36:45.000 You give them time.

02:36:46.000 Time to frame the debate, time to market their worldview.

02:36:51.000 It's not an interview, it's a debate.

02:36:52.000 So, debates should be full of declarative statements.

02:36:55.000 And if there's questions, they should be rhetorical.

02:36:57.000 A debate should be making your arguments.

02:37:00.000 Not asking them to defend theirs, that's giving them a platform to make their arguments.

02:37:04.000 You should make your own arguments.

02:37:06.000 And you should want to have as much time to do that as possible.

02:37:11.000 You have an audience of 52,000 concurrent viewers, and they're watching and they came there to hear a clash of ideas.

02:37:18.000 They want to hear two perspectives on an idea.

02:37:21.000 And Charlie Kirk was interviewing Vosh about his perspective on all the ideas.

02:37:25.000 And when it was his turn, he was, you know, it was, well, I have to object to this.

02:37:30.000 I have to have a moderate objection to this part.

02:37:33.000 And these little drive by, you know.

02:37:35.000 Well, I've read Marshall.

02:37:36.000 Sometimes it ends badly, wouldn't you say?

02:37:39.000 This is just terrible.

02:37:42.000 So that was very obvious.

02:37:43.000 The Tucker Carlson impression is just off putting.

02:37:46.000 You got to be yourself.

02:37:47.000 You got to be yourself.

02:37:48.000 It's one thing to take pieces, which can be effective, but a wholesale, you know, a wholesale imitation, a wholesale impersonation, very off putting, you know, because it becomes uncanny.

02:38:03.000 People recognize it, it's familiar, and you're never going to be.

02:38:07.000 As Tucker Carlson, as Tucker Carlson, so it comes across as insincere.

02:38:12.000 And that's a big problem.

02:38:13.000 So, you know, all across the board, it's a disaster.

02:38:19.000 You know, in the first place, because of the tone and the attitude that was taken, it's a disaster because of the use of time, you know, the amount of time and the use of time and the asking questions and everything.

02:38:32.000 The tone that was used, the kind of, you know, personal affect that was put on was terrible.

02:38:39.000 And there was one other thing I was going to say about the overall sort of style of it.

02:38:43.000 What was I going to say?

02:38:45.000 Maybe it'll come back to me.

02:38:46.000 But then on the substance, the problem is this conservatives don't actually have a compelling alternative. 0.98

02:38:53.000 The Charlie Kirk conservatism, it's really the same socialism sucks with a new coat of paint. 0.99

02:39:00.000 It's the same socialism sucks, free market, limited government, fiscal responsibility, but they painted over it Trump 2024 and Tucker Carlson and all this shit. 0.99

02:39:12.000 So it's the same, you know, become a victor, not a victim. 0.99

02:39:15.000 It's the same root and tooting, constitutional, you know, slavish defense of America.

02:39:20.000 But I'm going to drop some things here and there for based points.

02:39:24.000 I'm going to say America's a Home.

02:39:26.000 No elaboration on that, and nothing that he argued would indicate that he feels that way, but it's something that is just said now.

02:39:33.000 And well, we need to have allegiance to the nation.

02:39:36.000 Again, nothing that he argued would indicate that he feels that way, but it's just something people say now.

02:39:41.000 That's another thing that Tucker Carlson says.

02:39:44.000 And what's more, the whole ideology is it's the same multiracial working class populism, it's the same repurposed GOP sludge to fit Trumpism, to fit.

02:39:57.000 The post Trump era.

02:39:58.000 Let's take the same Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, Paul Ryan, Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney, you know, AFI, is that what it's called?

02:40:07.000 Or what's the college organization?

02:40:09.000 I forget the acronym.

02:40:11.000 I have one of their books.

02:40:14.000 But it's that same establishment agenda, but they've repurposed it.

02:40:18.000 Steve Bannon and Ryan Gurdusky and Tucker Carlson and Peter Thiel and all these new populist ink types.

02:40:28.000 They've come along and they've got a bright idea.

02:40:30.000 Well, Trumpism isn't going to work.

02:40:31.000 Why? 0.98

02:40:32.000 Because it's too white, it's too racist, it's too provocative, it's too polarizing. 0.67

02:40:37.000 So we're going to take it, we're going to submerge it in a vat of Heritage Foundation solution, and out comes multiracial working class populism. 0.67

02:40:44.000 And now we're going to have a think tank run by an Indian and a Chinese man talking about American greatness and Teddy Roosevelt. 0.52

02:40:50.000 And where does American greatness come from? 0.94

02:40:52.000 It comes from the middle class, it comes from class, it comes from manufacturing, it comes from productivity, it comes from economy.

02:41:00.000 We're economic nationalists, not white nationalists.

02:41:03.000 We're working class nationalists.

02:41:05.000 We're not American nationalists.

02:41:07.000 We'll defend industry.

02:41:09.000 We will not defend our identity.

02:41:13.000 And that, I mean, ultimately, that is representative of what the whole right wing is doing.

02:41:18.000 That's what all of populists think is trying to do. 0.99

02:41:20.000 It's the same bullshit with a new coat of paint. 0.99

02:41:23.000 Let's try and repurpose this, you know, GDP worship. 0.99

02:41:27.000 Let's try to repurpose what wasn't working before, what was a messaging deficit, what they think, and we'll just change the messaging. 0.58

02:41:35.000 And so it's the same race blind, anti racist, anti wokeism, rugged individualism, but we're just going to call it working class populism instead.

02:41:45.000 Instead of telling, instead of saying blacks, lift yourselves up by your bootstraps, we're going to say something like, you know, blacks are being hurt by illegal immigration too, and we need opportunity zones, or, you know, some other thing like that.

02:41:57.000 But it's ultimately the same.

02:41:59.000 And you could see that.

02:42:01.000 Charlie Kirk and Vosh did find a lot of common ground.

02:42:03.000 They both love the civil rights movement.

02:42:05.000 They both Think that racism is a problem.

02:42:07.000 They both want a Marshall Plan.

02:42:09.000 They both want a GI Bill for all the N words and S words. 0.78

02:42:13.000 They both want a new GI Bill for all the poor. 0.81

02:42:16.000 And if it happens to include white people, well, that just means it's about class and not race, and all the better. 0.59

02:42:21.000 But they fundamentally agree, and they fundamentally agree on lots of this stuff.

02:42:29.000 So it wasn't just the Tucker Carlson personal affect and style, it was the whole Tucker Carlson, you know, half loaf, you know, crumb from the whole loaf of what we actually believe.

02:42:41.000 You know?

02:42:44.000 It's not just Tucker, it's not just Charlie doing the Tucker Carlson face, but also saying things like Tucker Carlson would that white replacement is a voting rights issue and it's not about race. 0.99

02:42:56.000 You're the racist. 0.94

02:42:57.000 Woke is on, wouldn't you say? 0.99

02:43:01.000 No, it's not.

02:43:02.000 It's not about class, it is about race.

02:43:04.000 And by the way, Tim Pool is the same way.

02:43:07.000 So, and then, and then even the China stuff, the cherry on top was then at the end, he even threw in the thing about China.

02:43:12.000 What do you think is a bigger threat, climate change or China?

02:43:14.000 So, it literally is a Tucker Carlson show.

02:43:16.000 It literally is. 0.99

02:43:18.000 Half baked working class multiracial populism plus the fucking neocon China warmongering. 0.99

02:43:25.000 So it literally is a Steve Bannon agenda. 0.98

02:43:28.000 It literally is a Steve Bannon, you know, neo neocon agenda, which is repurposed economic bullshit plus renewed hawkishness, this time against China rather than Russia because Bannon's funded by a Chinese billionaire in exile.

02:43:45.000 And because the right wing is still hawkish, right?

02:43:47.000 They're still neocons, it's a new war.

02:43:49.000 Not against Muslims, it's against Chinese, Chinese socialism.

02:43:55.000 So it's the whole thing was just a joke.

02:43:57.000 The whole thing was just an absolute total failure.

02:44:00.000 Oh, this is what I was going to say.

02:44:02.000 More to the point, more to the point.

02:44:04.000 The problem with this is not just that it's not new, the problem is not just that it's insincere, the problem is not just that it's the same failed ideology repackaged.

02:44:12.000 The problem is they're not articulating a real vision for America.

02:44:17.000 You know, what we're really talking about here is a conflict of visions.

02:44:25.000 And Vosh is motivated by a vision of America.

02:44:29.000 He's got a purpose.

02:44:30.000 There's a telos there.

02:44:31.000 There's a directionality to what he's doing.

02:44:33.000 He's got an answer.

02:44:34.000 He knows why he's waking up every day.

02:44:36.000 And his vision of America, we don't like it. 0.99

02:44:38.000 We would say it's bullshit, but it's tangible, it's aspirational, it's inspirational. 0.97

02:44:44.000 And so when he talks about we need to educate people about the problems in America to create a class of activists to radically change America, that's a vision. 0.98

02:44:54.000 We're going to create green energy and create new jobs and sell it to the world.

02:44:57.000 And we're going to, you know, all this kind of stuff.

02:45:00.000 That's a real vision that can possess people.

02:45:03.000 What's the vision articulated by Charlie Kirk?

02:45:06.000 Well, I actually want to preserve things.

02:45:08.000 Don't you think things are worth preserving?

02:45:10.000 Like, you tell me.

02:45:12.000 You tell me.

02:45:12.000 You're the debater.

02:45:13.000 Shouldn't you argue that preservation is a value that we should care about?

02:45:18.000 Isn't it your job as a debater to argue and provide a compelling case, a compelling vision?

02:45:26.000 That people should fall in line behind, but he's asking Vosh to defend his own ideology.

02:45:30.000 Well, don't you think that we should preserve some things?

02:45:33.000 I mean, wouldn't you say at the minimum?

02:45:35.000 Why argue the minimum?

02:45:36.000 Argue the maximum.

02:45:37.000 We have to articulate a compelling reason for why America should be preserved and why it should survive.

02:45:43.000 The problem is they don't want America to survive.

02:45:47.000 That's just it.

02:45:48.000 They don't know what America is.

02:45:50.000 And what America is, they don't like and they don't believe in it and they are ashamed of it and they're apologizing for it and they don't want it to exist.

02:45:58.000 You know, when Charlie Kirk says, Well, Vermont abolished slavery in 1777, you know what, like, Harry Truman said about blacks?

02:46:05.000 Why don't you go and take a look?

02:46:06.000 Harry Truman was president in the 50s, right?

02:46:10.000 Harry Truman was president from, what, 46 to 52.

02:46:14.000 And take a look at what Harry Truman had to say about the blacks.

02:46:17.000 Take a look at what Nixon had to say about the blacks.

02:46:19.000 Take a look at what Calvin Coolidge had to say about the blacks, or any of them for that matter.

02:46:26.000 And you tell me that America's not a racist nation, America's not a slave nation.

02:46:31.000 E pluribus unum.

02:46:32.000 E pluribus unum means out of 13 colonies, one nation.

02:46:35.000 It doesn't mean out of all the blacks and whites, a multiracial democracy.

02:46:39.000 That's never what it meant.

02:46:42.000 And certainly, if you talk to the reason that they didn't put in place miscegenation laws or got rid of them, miscegenation laws meaning outlawing the marriage of blacks and whites, it was because they thought that it was so obviously wrong and so shameful that the social ostracism was so strong that they just didn't need the laws.

02:47:06.000 Abraham Lincoln, who were, according to this debate, according to the mythology which underlies both of the debaters' worldviews, Abraham Lincoln allegedly fought the war to free the slaves.

02:47:17.000 Abraham Lincoln said that if he could bring the Confederacy back into the Union without freeing one slave, he would do it.

02:47:23.000 And Abraham Lincoln himself said that he never thought that blacks and whites should live on this continent with full legal equality, full legal and political equality.

02:47:30.000 None of the founding fathers believed that.

02:47:32.000 And none of the American presidents believed that.

02:47:35.000 And no American political leaders believed that.

02:47:37.000 I mean, you know, generally speaking, for centuries.

02:47:41.000 So, and again, that's not to say that I feel that way, necessarily, but it is to say that.

02:47:48.000 You know, this slavish defense of the liberal, this propositional nation idea and everything but name.

02:47:53.000 Charlie Kirk now says America's a home, but yet he still is making these arguments that America's a creedal identity, that America is a creedal nation.

02:48:02.000 It's a civic identity.

02:48:03.000 How do we define our nation? 0.99

02:48:04.000 Well, it's about John Jay's Federalist Papers and the Declaration and fuck all of that. 0.98

02:48:10.000 It's not about that. 0.95

02:48:11.000 I mean, don't get me wrong, all of that is important.

02:48:13.000 All of that is an achievement in political philosophy of our people, of America, but that is an achievement of the people.

02:48:21.000 The nation.

02:48:23.000 It's emergent from the nation.

02:48:25.000 It's not the nation itself.

02:48:27.000 Of course, the nation precedes that, and the civilization preceded that nation.

02:48:33.000 Where did all these colonists come from?

02:48:36.000 You know, the declaration came from the colonists, and the colonists came from where?

02:48:40.000 Europe.

02:48:42.000 And where did they get these ideas from?

02:48:43.000 Well, the Magna Carta, and they got them from Rome, and they got them from Greece, and they got them from our civilization, from the mother of America, from our mother civilization.

02:48:54.000 And none of these people actually think any of that is worth defending because they are perfectly willing to define that down to melanin and say that the greatest thing about George Washington is that he was a humanitarian.

02:49:07.000 That's not the greatest thing about George Washington.

02:49:09.000 He was one of the greatest statesmen of world history.

02:49:14.000 The achievements of the founding fathers were that they forged a nation, that they were exceptional thinkers and leaders, they achieved excellence.

02:49:24.000 That is what made them exceptional.

02:49:26.000 Not that they made it, you know, made a place for everyone else to come and hang out and have a good time.

02:49:32.000 That's not a compelling reason to perpetuate civilization.

02:49:34.000 That's why Western civilization exists, because it's an idea and other people can have it and other people can take it and imitate it.

02:49:44.000 That's worth fighting for.

02:49:45.000 That's our compelling vision.

02:49:47.000 We survive because why?

02:49:49.000 Our civilization survives because why?

02:49:52.000 Black people should care about our founding fathers.

02:49:54.000 Why? 0.99

02:49:55.000 Because we all have jobs because of it. 0.99

02:49:57.000 Because that civic framework allows us to have a good economy.

02:50:00.000 What if the economy breaks?

02:50:02.000 Then what?

02:50:04.000 We believe in Abraham Lincoln because he helped out the black people.

02:50:07.000 Do the black people feel that way?

02:50:10.000 And it goes on and on. 0.60

02:50:11.000 So they don't know what this nation is.

02:50:15.000 And if they actually were confronted with this nation, they would call it white supremacy.

02:50:20.000 They would call it white supremacy.

02:50:21.000 They would apologize for it.

02:50:22.000 They would do everything they could to evade it or hide from it.

02:50:27.000 And so, how can you.

02:50:29.000 Convince people to care about your civilization enough to die for it and work for it and expand it if you can't even affirm it, if you can't even stand by it.

02:50:39.000 You know, the most that a Charlie Kirk would say is, well, we've made mistakes.

02:50:43.000 We've made missteps.

02:50:45.000 We're human beings.

02:50:46.000 That's a given.

02:50:47.000 This is the greatest civilization in history.

02:50:50.000 We landed on the moon.

02:50:52.000 It's not even a contest.

02:50:54.000 You have to be a chauvinist, you have to be a nationalist, you have to be an imperialist.

02:51:01.000 So, I mean, Charlie Kirk's ideology is a liberal ideology, which is really, I mean, Marxism succeeds liberalism.

02:51:10.000 You know, it's like when Charlie Kirk says, well, we're not teaching fourth graders about Gramsci in the same way that we're not teaching fourth graders about Euclidean geometry, but we teach them math in the same way.

02:51:20.000 You know, Charlie Kirk is a fourth grader talking about anti racism, and Vosh is the collegiate level.

02:51:27.000 You get the liberal enlightenment, and then you get the postmodern Marxism.

02:51:34.000 So, no, it was a failure.

02:51:37.000 No one is going to become a conservative.

02:51:39.000 No one is going to do what is necessary to preserve our nation if you can't articulate a reason for why people should care.

02:51:45.000 If you can't articulate a compelling vision for America.

02:51:48.000 Donald Trump did.

02:51:49.000 I mean, he achieved something proximal to that, and that's why he was successful.

02:51:54.000 Mitt Romney got up there and said, Well, Barack Obama's this bad dude.

02:51:59.000 He didn't even say that.

02:51:59.000 He said, Barack Obama's a bad manager.

02:52:02.000 You should pick me, I'll manage this country better.

02:52:04.000 Yeah, who cares?

02:52:05.000 Donald Trump came in and said, We're gonna take this country and literally make it great again.

02:52:11.000 And you know, when people made those meme edits of Donald Trump, they made videos of rocket ships taking off and glimmering cities.

02:52:19.000 And you know, what was the iconic genre of music during the meme war in 2016?

02:52:24.000 It was Vaporwave.

02:52:25.000 Vaporwave.

02:52:26.000 Where does that come from?

02:52:28.000 Vaporwave is a style of music that samples 80s songs, 80s pop or RB songs or disco songs, and distorts them.

02:52:36.000 And why is it called Vaporwave?

02:52:38.000 Because Vaporware, which was during the 80s and 90s, were these wonder products that were advertised but never came out.

02:52:47.000 And Vaporwave music is a play on that.

02:52:49.000 It's a play on the consumerism of the 80s and distorting it.

02:52:54.000 And it's supposed to be reflective of the promise of the American dream, the promise of America, the wonder of America, but that never materialized.

02:53:02.000 It never came.

02:53:04.000 Why was that the defining genre of music?

02:53:07.000 In the 2010s on the internet behind the Trump revolution, it's because that's what Trump represented.

02:53:12.000 It was about actualizing the greatness of America, actualizing the essential greatness of the American people.

02:53:19.000 And that was something to aspire to and believe in.

02:53:22.000 It was about taking that spiritual malaise and inverting it.

02:53:27.000 And now we've got Charlie Kirk going up and saying, well, black people aren't doing good because of the welfare state. 1.00

02:53:33.000 And, you know, it's like, shut the fuck up. 1.00

02:53:35.000 Just shut the fuck up. 1.00

02:53:36.000 Like, everyone is dying, everyone is killing themselves. 1.00

02:53:40.000 There's no good reason to live anymore.

02:53:42.000 I'm sorry to say, I'm sorry to tell you, but you know, there's just not a reason to live anymore.

02:53:50.000 The system does not work.

02:53:52.000 The system is broken.

02:53:53.000 There's no opportunities.

02:53:54.000 Everything is terrible and it's getting worse.

02:53:57.000 The people that hate us and hate what we're about are in power and can make our life miserable.

02:54:01.000 And it's just not really worth fighting for if that's all there is to it, which is, I mean, why are we going to stand up to the American empire?

02:54:07.000 Why are we going to fly through the Death Star Trench?

02:54:10.000 And drop the proton torpedo into the exhaust port.

02:54:14.000 Why would we do that?

02:54:16.000 Because we want to be victors and not victims? 1.00

02:54:19.000 Fuck you. 1.00

02:54:20.000 Fuck you. 1.00

02:54:22.000 You know? 1.00

02:54:23.000 Why do you think people gravitate towards Hitler?

02:54:25.000 Why do you think right wing people, why do you think on the internet Wignats gravitate towards Hitler? 0.50

02:54:31.000 You know, not for nothing, but what do you think people see in that? 0.63

02:54:35.000 Just saying.

02:54:37.000 I'm not saying I'm pro Hitler or anything, but what do you think people see in that? 0.51

02:54:42.000 It's obviously not something I endorse.

02:54:44.000 It's something that's foreign, it's something that was cataclysmic for the world for a variety of complex reasons, but people look at that, and what do they see?

02:54:54.000 They see a reactionary alternative to communism.

02:54:59.000 It's just what it is.

02:55:01.000 People don't look at that and say, the Holocaust.

02:55:03.000 No, they don't say that.

02:55:05.000 But sometimes people look at that and they say, wow.

02:55:07.000 They say, wow.

02:55:10.000 Glory, greatness, military might.

02:55:14.000 They see competence.

02:55:15.000 Now, and again, it's not to say, look, don't misinterpret what I mean.

02:55:22.000 But some people look at that and say, maybe that's since World War II.

02:55:29.000 Maybe since World War I, maybe since the French Revolution, that was the last expression of a compelling right wing alternative.

02:55:39.000 Now, don't get me wrong, deeply problematic for various reasons.

02:55:44.000 I'm Christian.

02:55:45.000 We're not in favor of this kind of scientific socialism.

02:55:51.000 I'm not in favor of the bureaucracy.

02:55:52.000 I'm not in favor of this, and he could describe it as so called totalitarianism.

02:55:57.000 I'm not in favor of the strong authority.

02:55:59.000 I'm not in favor of the secular religion of the state. 0.93

02:56:03.000 Certainly not in favor of the ghettos and the concentration camps and things like that, obviously.

02:56:08.000 But when you look at that, and it's important to consider this, that is a compelling reaction to communism and liberalism, which there is just no such other thing.

02:56:21.000 The trajectory of Western civilization since the French Revolution has been towards liberalization and ultimately towards communism.

02:56:30.000 And it's been towards this suicide of our civilization, rationalized by liberalism.

02:56:36.000 Advanced by Marxism.

02:56:40.000 And who has stood athwart that?

02:56:42.000 King Louis XVI?

02:56:44.000 And who stood against that?

02:56:45.000 Metternich?

02:56:46.000 Bismarck?

02:56:50.000 Right?

02:56:52.000 Who stood against that?

02:56:54.000 Kaiser Wilhelm II?

02:56:55.000 Franklin Roosevelt?

02:56:59.000 Reagan?

02:57:00.000 Margaret Thatcher?

02:57:01.000 George Bush?

02:57:02.000 I mean, where's the reaction?

02:57:04.000 Where's the compelling reactionary vision?

02:57:07.000 And all of this is to say we have to think.

02:57:10.000 We have to think bigger.

02:57:10.000 We have to think bigger than just, you know, well, we're only opposed to this thing.

02:57:15.000 We're only opposed to making the vaccine mandatory.

02:57:19.000 But, you know, if you mandated it for schools, I think that's far more reasonable. 0.97

02:57:23.000 I mean, like, just shut up. 1.00

02:57:25.000 Just die, dude. 1.00

02:57:26.000 Just die. 1.00

02:57:28.000 All you're doing is delaying the inevitable, which is the inevitable domination of our civilization by elements that are hostile to it. 0.97

02:57:39.000 So, and that's not an apologia for Hitler, okay?

02:57:41.000 That's not.

02:57:42.000 That's not apologetics for Nazi Germany.

02:57:45.000 All that is to say, it's striking.

02:57:49.000 It's striking.

02:57:50.000 The visuals are striking.

02:57:52.000 The message was compelling.

02:57:54.000 And these things are, you know, it's irrespective of whether you think it's right or wrong or the morality of it or the consequences of all of that.

02:58:03.000 We're talking strictly in terms of, you know, we're analyzing political efficacy.

02:58:08.000 That's all.

02:58:09.000 In the same way that you look at the Soviet Union, I mean, you could equally look at the Soviet Union and say, that's a compelling vision.

02:58:15.000 Why were all the anti colonial forces in the Third World communist?

02:58:20.000 It's because the communists were the only ones writing the books.

02:58:23.000 And the Soviet Union stood against the West powerfully.

02:58:27.000 You know, if you like that better, the aesthetics were powerful.

02:58:32.000 The story, the vision, the message was powerful.

02:58:35.000 They weren't there saying, hey, we just want worker co ops.

02:58:39.000 They were saying, no, we need to completely change society. 0.90

02:58:42.000 We need a new calendar.

02:58:44.000 And we're going to build great monuments to great leaders.

02:58:47.000 And we're going to build a nuclear arsenal and have military parades.

02:58:52.000 Right? 0.76

02:58:53.000 A dictatorship of the proletariat. 0.99

02:58:55.000 These peasants, we're going to make them the dictator. 0.78

02:58:58.000 And obviously, again, irrespective of what you think about that morally or how that turned out, it's about the efficacy of the message.

02:59:06.000 The message, the propaganda, the vision.

02:59:10.000 It's a compelling vision.

02:59:12.000 You know, North Korea, China, Russia, you can't argue with it.

02:59:16.000 There's a compelling aesthetic, there's a compelling vision.

02:59:20.000 This idea of fighting for the oppressed against the colonial masters everywhere and Guerrilla warfare, and I mean, that's compelling.

02:59:31.000 And we need a reactionary vision for America that's as compelling. 0.98

02:59:35.000 And this kind of half hearted stuff, reheated bullshit, it's just not going to work. 0.98

02:59:40.000 So that's what we have to find. 0.99

02:59:42.000 And that's how we have to be thinking.

02:59:44.000 Not this stuff is lame, stuff doesn't inspire anybody.

02:59:47.000 No one's going to walk away from this debate and say, wow, you know, Charlie Kirk really inspired me.

02:59:52.000 He really showed me why we should care about America.

02:59:55.000 If anything, I care a whole lot less about America after that.

03:00:00.000 You know, when they talk about John Jay and stuff, my eyes glaze over.

03:00:03.000 I go, boring, boring.

03:00:05.000 I'm going to go and fight and die because John Jay was a great writer. 0.81

03:00:08.000 I mean, really? 0.95

03:00:10.000 I'm going to go and fight and die because the elegance of our declaration, the elegance of our Constitution.

03:00:17.000 I'm going to go to the Hillsdale class and learn about the beauty of our system, of our civic tradition.

03:00:23.000 We should expand Western civilization.

03:00:25.000 Western civilization should continue, should be perpetuated because.

03:00:31.000 Of all this masturbatory stuff?

03:00:33.000 No. 0.99

03:00:35.000 Boo. 1.00

03:00:36.000 Not good.

03:00:40.000 Anyway, so that's pretty.

03:00:42.000 Not to ramble on and on, but that's just what I hate about these conservatives they're so unimaginative.

03:00:49.000 Conserve?

03:00:50.000 Why?

03:00:51.000 Why would we conserve?

03:00:52.000 Conserve is always a losing battle.

03:00:58.000 So.

03:01:01.000 All right.

03:01:02.000 But let's move on.

03:01:03.000 Let's take a look at our super chats.

03:01:05.000 We'll see what you guys are saying about this stuff.

03:01:09.000 And it can't be LARP either.

03:01:10.000 You can't show statues either.

03:01:13.000 Statues, the people that made those statues are dead, okay?

03:01:17.000 And the people that made those seaside towns in the Mediterranean, you know, people are not going to.

03:01:25.000 Sorry, Chris Buskirk. 0.79

03:01:26.000 Sorry, Bronze Age pervert.

03:01:28.000 Showing people pictures of dead civilizations is not it either. 0.96

03:01:32.000 I'm sorry to tell you.

03:01:33.000 We're not going to create a Faustian religion.

03:01:35.000 It's not going to happen.

03:01:37.000 We got to be real.

03:01:38.000 We got to get real. 1.00

03:01:39.000 Stop the fucking lark. 0.99

03:01:40.000 You know? 1.00

03:01:41.000 Stop pretending.

03:01:45.000 It's got to be something visionary.

03:01:47.000 It's got to be something new for our time, for our people.

03:01:50.000 Something that resonates with people here.

03:01:54.000 You know?

03:01:55.000 That's something that a lot of these guys don't get.

03:01:59.000 You know?

03:02:00.000 They show you this stuff like it's a museum and we're all supposed to be so appreciative.

03:02:04.000 It's like, oh, okay.

03:02:07.000 No.

03:02:08.000 No, it's got to be folkish. 0.92

03:02:10.000 Okay. 0.55

03:02:13.000 All right.

03:02:14.000 But let's take a look at our super chats.

03:02:15.000 We'll see what you guys are saying.

03:02:16.000 I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's just something I've been thinking about lately.

03:02:21.000 We're going to need something that's really going to animate people and a real alternative that takes itself seriously.

03:02:34.000 Kuwaiti Groyper says it's an unknown year in the future. 0.99

03:02:37.000 The white race is saved. 1.00

03:02:38.000 Now it's your wedding night.

03:02:40.000 Who's your best man, Jaden or Beardson?

03:02:44.000 Well, I mean, I would offend one or the other if I said one or the other.

03:02:53.000 So, I don't want to offend one person, and you know, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

03:02:59.000 You know, you're being awfully presumptuous if you think I'm even going to have a wedding night, you know, in the first place.

03:03:04.000 I think that's a little presumptuous.

03:03:05.000 I am an incel after all, so I don't know if we can really assume that.

03:03:09.000 The real question is are both Jaden and Beardson going to have me as their best man?

03:03:13.000 Because honestly, I think that would be appropriate.

03:03:17.000 So, we'll see.

03:03:19.000 Cold Cheese says smiley face, thanks. 1.00

03:03:22.000 Saxon says, Fat Gay Retard brings up the MMR vaccine right out of the gate. 1.00

03:03:27.000 That thing almost killed me when I was a kid. 0.97

03:03:29.000 I have a permanent blood condition from it.

03:03:30.000 Great example, lol.

03:03:32.000 Yeah, all the vaccines are bad.

03:03:35.000 That's what they say.

03:03:35.000 They're like, well, all vaccines are like this.

03:03:37.000 It's like, yeah, all vaccines are bad.

03:03:41.000 TR says Charlie isn't even wearing a jacket.

03:03:44.000 Bosch is wearing this weird white jacket.

03:03:46.000 Tim always looks like a Portland waiter.

03:03:48.000 Neither of these people look like serious people. 1.00

03:03:51.000 I genuinely don't know what to call, who to call a fat gay retard. 1.00

03:03:55.000 Put a jacket on and be presentable. 0.99

03:03:56.000 Vintage style, vintage values.

03:04:00.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to be picky because it is more of a casual stream.

03:04:05.000 You know, they're doing it in like his house and like this recording studio.

03:04:08.000 So I don't know if I'd be nitpicky about that per se.

03:04:11.000 I think a full suit would be inappropriate.

03:04:13.000 Maybe a suit with no tie, you know, a jacket for sure.

03:04:19.000 Ben says if you could add anyone to Mount Rushmore, who would it be and why?

03:04:22.000 Donald Trump for obvious reasons.

03:04:25.000 TR says vaccinated people are the healthiest, non fat people are the healthiest. 0.97

03:04:29.000 Also, Fat Gay Retards' Widow Peak looks hilarious. 1.00

03:04:33.000 Yeah, he's honestly just a revolting slob. 1.00

03:04:37.000 And that's true. 1.00

03:04:38.000 Zoomer Guy says Hi, Nicky Boy.

03:04:40.000 Did you hear the song yet where I had the Beardson feature?

03:04:45.000 I have to let you know it's pretty fire.

03:04:46.000 No, I haven't heard it.

03:04:47.000 Somebody's got to send it to me.

03:04:49.000 Spinefish says I failed to clarify this during your stream this morning, but I think your baseball telegram post was powerful because it was a picture of yummy food from your box seat.

03:04:59.000 It had an energy reminiscent of the Trump picture with that big Philly cheesesteak on Air Force One.

03:05:05.000 They hate to see a man eat.

03:05:07.000 They really do.

03:05:08.000 They really do hate to see a man eat.

03:05:11.000 Everybody gives me a hard time about those posts.

03:05:13.000 I will never stop.

03:05:15.000 It's true.

03:05:17.000 They hate to see a man eating that good.

03:05:20.000 But I was eating good.

03:05:21.000 It was a good beef sandwich.

03:05:25.000 Some people didn't even know what it is.

03:05:27.000 Some people don't even know what that is.

03:05:28.000 Imagine being so uncultured. 1.00

03:05:30.000 Imagine being such an asshole. 1.00

03:05:32.000 You don't even know what an Italian beef sandwich is, you know? 1.00

03:05:36.000 So, a lot of people, I'm sure, look at that and they can't even identify it, you know?

03:05:41.000 Because they've never been to Chicago, I don't imagine.

03:05:43.000 But, yeah, no, good stuff.

03:05:46.000 We love to see it.

03:05:46.000 We love a little beef sandwich at the ball game.

03:05:50.000 Nothing quite like it.

03:05:52.000 Humongous says, Hey, Nick, looking forward to your documentary.

03:05:56.000 Saw that part yesterday when you were talking about Lollapalooza.

03:05:59.000 I loved it.

03:06:00.000 I hate normie social gatherings and I'm slowly becoming an incel.

03:06:05.000 Yeah, I'm sure you are.

03:06:06.000 But thanks.

03:06:06.000 I'm glad you like that.

03:06:08.000 I love when people, you know, normies do that to themselves.

03:06:10.000 It's like when normies watch Joker and they're like, he's just like me.

03:06:14.000 Uh huh.

03:06:16.000 Doomer Squidward says, I hate the word woke.

03:06:18.000 Yeah, me too.

03:06:19.000 Yeah, that's great.

03:06:19.000 Wokeism.

03:06:22.000 Drake says Charlie and Tim like, I think we all agree, actually.

03:06:26.000 Fat Ian, no.

03:06:28.000 Why are these types so obsessed with finding common ground?

03:06:30.000 Because they're afraid.

03:06:32.000 They're afraid of their enemy.

03:06:33.000 They're afraid of the left.

03:06:34.000 They want to be liked.

03:06:37.000 Vitus says Kirk was clearly trying to ape your rhetorical style at the beginning of the debate, but choked and fell back into his old debate tactics.

03:06:44.000 A lot of people want to be like you, but don't come close.

03:06:46.000 I don't think he was necessarily.

03:06:48.000 I didn't pick up on that.

03:06:51.000 Spinefish's thoughts on I Still Love Her by the Teriyaki Boys and Kanye West.

03:06:55.000 One of my favorites, actually.

03:06:56.000 One of my favorites.

03:07:01.000 I guess it was released, but it's more of the.

03:07:05.000 It's a single.

03:07:06.000 I don't think they even have it on Spotify, but it's one of my favorites.

03:07:09.000 It's very different.

03:07:11.000 The problem is the Kanye verse is so short, you know?

03:07:15.000 But it's a good one.

03:07:15.000 That one goes hard.

03:07:17.000 I love when people send these super chats so it's supposed to be like.

03:07:21.000 You're not even, you don't, I don't think you really even care what I think about that song.

03:07:24.000 You just want to show me that you know what that song is.

03:07:27.000 And then I'll be like, wow, you knew that track too?

03:07:35.000 Because it's a good song.

03:07:36.000 Of course I like it. 1.00

03:07:38.000 Roy says, Vosh is a pedo faggot. 1.00

03:07:40.000 Sudden starvation is too good for him. 1.00

03:07:43.000 Impressive, impressive chat.

03:07:46.000 Fresh Princess Amunda says, Nick watching Charlie like, I can save him.

03:07:50.000 No, not at all.

03:07:53.000 I don't think that at all.

03:07:55.000 Diligence says, Hey, Nick, what's up?

03:07:57.000 Not much, man.

03:07:58.000 Just doing this show.

03:08:01.000 What's up with you, dude? 0.99

03:08:03.000 Roy says, Play Baked Alaska's Twitter is gay early and often. 1.00

03:08:08.000 Yeah, so true. 1.00

03:08:10.000 Fortnite Burger Man says, If there was anyone that you would be open to debate with, who would it be?

03:08:15.000 Anybody, really.

03:08:16.000 Vosh, Charlie Kirk, Destiny. 1.00

03:08:20.000 What a dumb question. 1.00

03:08:21.000 Mac Man says, All the lies on history, slavery, race relations. 1.00

03:08:25.000 Holocaust, etc., from tonight's debate.

03:08:28.000 I don't think they brought up the Holocaust.

03:08:30.000 And in general, our black pillings, since this is what most Americans know, with all the lies and the obfuscation our generations have been subject to, I'm starting to think even slavery wasn't real.

03:08:40.000 Hot take, man.

03:08:41.000 This is groundbreaking. 0.99

03:08:42.000 Mac Mann says Kirk was a total pussy, but he did appear way more historically literate. 1.00

03:08:46.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:08:47.000 Vosh is just ignorant, you know, and I am glad that that kind of shined through because he just didn't know what he was talking about. 0.97

03:08:56.000 About a lot of that stuff, right? 0.97

03:08:59.000 He got caught on the 1619 Project author.

03:09:03.000 He got caught on the slavery question and on the VARES system and on the JJ.

03:09:10.000 And I mean, there were a lot of moments where he just didn't know what he was talking about. 0.89

03:09:14.000 So that was good. 1.00

03:09:15.000 Base Quint says, Niggas be like, Nick, I got AIDS from having sex with a black guy. 1.00

03:09:19.000 Luckily, the police got footage of it. 1.00

03:09:22.000 Yeah, I remember that joke from yesterday.

03:09:24.000 Michael says, Wasting time with these people.

03:09:26.000 Okay, thanks.

03:09:28.000 Roy says, Someone time the voice time of each.

03:09:31.000 Person in this debate. 0.96

03:09:32.000 It's the fag Vosh hour, not a debate. 1.00

03:09:35.000 True. 0.98

03:09:36.000 Medieval Groypers says conservatives need to stop deferring to leftists in debates, expecting to reach common ground with them.

03:09:42.000 They'll never achieve it. 1.00

03:09:43.000 These people hate our very existence, and it's pathetic watching Charlie smile like an idiot when they reach an agreement. 1.00

03:09:49.000 It is. 1.00

03:09:50.000 It is.

03:09:50.000 The civility stuff is such a.

03:09:53.000 It's misplaced.

03:09:55.000 MacMan says a fellow white person called LonerBox on YouTube made a poorly researched critique of your Dallas event.

03:10:03.000 It's easy to Debunk and shows that the opposition is futile, it'd be a good stream.

03:10:08.000 Oh, thanks for the advice. 0.99

03:10:10.000 Spinefish says months ago I super chatted that I didn't like you having a background for the non AF streams.

03:10:16.000 I hereby retract that statement.

03:10:19.000 Glad that it's growing on you. 0.59

03:10:21.000 Late Soviets is when Vosh is more sympathetic to white people by saying he doesn't want them to feel bad. 0.99

03:10:26.000 You know, Kirk really fucked up. 1.00

03:10:28.000 What a loser. 1.00

03:10:29.000 I know, I caught that too. 0.99

03:10:31.000 That was the one time anybody was sympathetic to the plight of white people in the debate, and it came from Vosh.

03:10:38.000 Mr. Lennon says Would you consider an in person debate with Vosh like Vince James did with Destiny on the JLP show?

03:10:44.000 Yes, I would. 0.94

03:10:45.000 Of course I would.

03:10:47.000 Of course I would. 0.98

03:10:49.000 Politics USA says this entire debate was set up to funnel centrist Tim Pool fans to radical Vosh. 0.76

03:10:55.000 Charlie's totally aware of this. 0.91

03:10:56.000 That's why he's just interviewing him.

03:10:58.000 Rigged.

03:10:58.000 I don't think that was Charlie's intention, but that is the result.

03:11:02.000 VMI says, Can we please just send all three of these losers to jail? 0.99

03:11:07.000 So true. 1.00

03:11:08.000 Chicken on a Raft says, Fake debate.

03:11:10.000 You're not allowed on Tim Cass because you're real.

03:11:12.000 It's true.

03:11:14.000 I keep it real, man.

03:11:15.000 I'm too real.

03:11:17.000 Michael Parker says, Do you think people are good or bad?

03:11:24.000 Okay.

03:11:25.000 Bog says, Hey, Vosh, you should try Relief Factor.

03:11:28.000 I want you to be comfortable and pain free.

03:11:30.000 I did it, and look at me.

03:11:32.000 Yeah, that was the sponsor.

03:11:34.000 Mac Mann says, Kirk talking about Hegel and the second law of thermodynamics is why people should be illiterate.

03:11:40.000 Yeah, absolutely.

03:11:41.000 Absolutely.

03:11:43.000 Well, and you know he's just doing that for brownie points.

03:11:45.000 You know he read up on that so that Vosh would be so impressed. 0.90

03:11:50.000 See, I'm not an ignorant conservative.

03:11:52.000 I read Hegel. 1.00

03:11:55.000 Why does he care about Vosh's respect? 1.00

03:11:57.000 Vosh is a pedophile who wants to kill Charlie Kirk. 0.99

03:12:01.000 And Charlie Kirk is, you know, jumping through hoops to impress this guy, to gain his respect. 1.00

03:12:05.000 Why?

03:12:06.000 Michael Parker says Vosh said he likes men. 0.99

03:12:09.000 Yeah, he's gay. 0.98

03:12:11.000 Or bisexual or something.

03:12:15.000 So, yeah, that was kind of. 1.00

03:12:16.000 I like how that one just kind of went unacknowledged, kind of keck.

03:12:23.000 He was like, what is degenerate?

03:12:24.000 I mean, I like men.

03:12:26.000 Everyone was just like, okay.

03:12:26.000 And that just.

03:12:29.000 Trevor says, I think Charlie's argument was pretty clear. 0.57

03:12:32.000 He agrees with FGR. 0.94

03:12:33.000 What a disgrace.

03:12:34.000 Yeah, absolutely disgraceful.

03:12:36.000 Doomer Squidward says, 07, Nick.

03:12:38.000 Hey, big shout out.

03:12:41.000 07's to Doomer Squidward in chat.

03:12:42.000 Thank you so much, man, for the big super chat.

03:12:45.000 Big shout out.

03:12:46.000 I appreciate it.

03:12:48.000 A very generous super chat.

03:12:50.000 It almost made all of that worth it.

03:12:52.000 You know, almost.

03:12:54.000 So, everybody, 07 in chat for Doomer Squidward.

03:12:56.000 Thank you very much.

03:12:57.000 07 to you too.

03:13:00.000 Michael Smith says, This is Cancered AF.

03:13:03.000 Yep. 1.00

03:13:04.000 Last night says, Well, Nick, it's been a pleasure watching you, but after that Suckfest, I'll be killing myself after watching Fat Gay Retard interviewed by Charlie Kirk. 1.00

03:13:13.000 All I did was ask him questions. 1.00

03:13:15.000 What a joke, man.

03:13:16.000 Me, too.

03:13:16.000 Disappointed.

03:13:17.000 It wasn't even good.

03:13:18.000 It wasn't even entertaining. 0.99

03:13:20.000 It just sucked and was boring. 0.99

03:13:22.000 I'm the only entertainer. 0.95

03:13:23.000 Me and Baked Alaska and Jaden and Vince and Beardson, our streamers, we're the only entertaining ones left.

03:13:30.000 Who else is even doing anything worthwhile or interesting?

03:13:33.000 We're the only ones that are real.

03:13:34.000 We're the only ones that are confrontational.

03:13:36.000 We're the only ones that are going to actually say something that is controversial or offensive. 0.96

03:13:44.000 So, yeah, I mean, more than anything, it just sucks because it's boring and lame.

03:13:50.000 Saucy says, Do you think Charlie Kirk losing the debate will be good for UNAF?

03:13:55.000 Yeah.

03:13:56.000 Doomer Squidward says, It's never sufficient enough for blacks or any other disaffected groups.

03:14:01.000 Yep. 0.98

03:14:03.000 That's exactly the problem, you know.

03:14:05.000 And when you really get into the weeds about correcting these historical wrongdoings, it belies the point.

03:14:10.000 The disparities will always remain, cannot be solved.

03:14:14.000 Panic King says, You'd figure with all that Heritage Foundation money, Charlie Kirk would pay to have that asteroid sized mole cried off his face.

03:14:23.000 Does he have a mole?

03:14:24.000 I didn't even notice that.

03:14:27.000 360 NoScope says, Hi, Tim. 0.79

03:14:29.000 I just wanted to say thanks for hosting this debate between pee and poo.

03:14:33.000 A peaceful dialectic between piss and poop in the marketplace of ideas is essential to our democracy.

03:14:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:14:42.000 DoomerSquidward says, 50% literacy rates in cities, and this nigga Vosh thinks we can teach. 1.00

03:14:47.000 Aristotle, yeah. 1.00

03:14:50.000 Teach philosophy, yeah.

03:14:51.000 Stefan Molyneux can be the director of education. 0.98

03:14:55.000 Jackson Adams, whoa, says, Hey, Nick, Charlie Kirk and Vosh are both fat retards and have no clue what they're talking about. 0.97

03:15:02.000 When are we going to see you hop on a debate with one of them? 1.00

03:15:08.000 I'd love to.

03:15:09.000 I mean, I'd love to debate with one of them.

03:15:12.000 Vosh, Charlie Kirk, or anybody, really.

03:15:16.000 So I don't know.

03:15:17.000 It's up to them. 1.00

03:15:18.000 I said I'd debate Vosh anytime, anywhere. 0.96

03:15:22.000 You know, as long as we have a moderator and he can't mute my microphone, I mean, I think that goes without saying.

03:15:29.000 That's a debate.

03:15:30.000 I'll debate him anywhere.

03:15:31.000 But he's like, no, it has to be in my Discord server and it has to be on my channel and no moderator and I get to mute you.

03:15:37.000 Okay, so that's not really a debate you're interested in.

03:15:40.000 But I'll debate Vosh.

03:15:41.000 I'll debate Charlie Kirk. 0.57

03:15:42.000 I'll debate any of them, you know.

03:15:45.000 But that'll never happen.

03:15:47.000 He says, fight is officially November 20th in Louisville, Kentucky.

03:15:51.000 I'll be there, man.

03:15:51.000 I'll be there.

03:15:52.000 I will roll up.

03:15:55.000 And I'll be rolling up like a baller.

03:15:58.000 So I'll be there.

03:15:59.000 Louisville, Kentucky, November 20th.

03:16:01.000 I want to see it.

03:16:02.000 I want to see the big influencer fight.

03:16:03.000 You got to give me a VIP seat. 0.96

03:16:06.000 I'll sponsor the fight.

03:16:08.000 I'll pay money to put my logo on the ring or on the shorts or whatever.

03:16:11.000 But yeah, I'm totally down.

03:16:14.000 I think that's hype.

03:16:15.000 But good luck, man.

03:16:16.000 Good luck with your training.

03:16:17.000 Lance is kind of a badass.

03:16:19.000 I wouldn't want to be stepping in the ring with that guy anytime soon.

03:16:24.000 Because that guy is a badass.

03:16:25.000 Certified badass.

03:16:29.000 No, I like Lance.

03:16:30.000 I like Jackson.

03:16:31.000 I like Lance.

03:16:33.000 I'll sponsor them both. 0.87

03:16:35.000 And whoever wins, you know, may the best non-Groyper win, I guess.

03:16:40.000 But yeah, I'm looking forward to it, man.

03:16:42.000 I'll be there. 0.86

03:16:44.000 Real Donald Trump says Kirk couldn't even attack Vosh when he pretty much admitted to being a pedophile.

03:16:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

03:16:49.000 So weak. 0.99

03:16:51.000 Yeah, I don't know why he didn't engage in that at all.

03:16:53.000 No ad hominems, no nothing. 0.95

03:16:56.000 Winston says Vosh is like a woman.

03:16:57.000 He talks forever and says nothing. 1.00

03:16:59.000 Yeah.

03:17:00.000 Fire Rises says the YouTube channel, Politically Provoked, is trying to reach out to you about a big debate with you and Destiny.

03:17:05.000 I know they've been very, very annoying about it, you know, because they talk to my assistant and they email me and they talk to us and then they super chat us.

03:17:15.000 And, you know, I don't know, I guess it's just not happening fast enough or whatever.

03:17:19.000 But, you know, at some point, it's just disrespectful.

03:17:23.000 It's just disrespectful to keep antagonizing somebody.

03:17:26.000 At some point, it's just antagonistic.

03:17:28.000 So we're well aware they're interested in hosting the debate.

03:17:31.000 I'm Perfectly aware of that.

03:17:33.000 They've sent it in the super chats.

03:17:34.000 They're in touch with my assistant.

03:17:36.000 They have all our contact information, so nobody needs to worry about it anymore.

03:17:40.000 Everybody has the information.

03:17:41.000 So when we decide to make that happen, we're going to make it happen, okay?

03:17:47.000 They lost contact if you got banned from Twitter.

03:17:49.000 Is there a way for them to contact you?

03:17:51.000 Yep, we're in touch, okay?

03:17:53.000 We're all good.

03:17:55.000 Fortnite Burger Man says Who do you think is more disingenuous, Destiny or Vosh? 0.72

03:18:01.000 Definitely Vosh. 0.86

03:18:04.000 Because Destiny, at least, is willing to say things that are unpopular. 0.98

03:18:07.000 Destiny will say things that are like anti trans or anti BLM or anti leftist.

03:18:16.000 You know, Destiny's willing to say things that are going to get them canceled by the internet left.

03:18:23.000 So, for that, I think he's, you know, just on that fact alone, he's a little bit more sincere.

03:18:28.000 Vosh, I feel like, will just do and say anything.

03:18:31.000 But Destiny's not.

03:18:32.000 He doesn't debate in good faith either, but he's a little bit more honest.

03:18:36.000 Fireskull says he literally debated like how he does his. 1.00

03:18:39.000 Tweets just asking a stupid question and the thinking emoji. 1.00

03:18:43.000 The debate was Vosh monologuing and Kirk does his thinking emoji thing, retarded and gay. 1.00

03:18:48.000 Yeah, that's well said. 1.00

03:18:49.000 Really makes you think, huh? 1.00

03:18:51.000 And then these like stupid, flimsy, rhetorical questions, and then Vosh goes on a two hour monologue. 1.00

03:18:58.000 So yeah, that's good. 1.00

03:19:00.000 Adolf Groyper says, Debate PewDiePie.

03:19:03.000 Good idea.

03:19:04.000 Zoomer Guy says, Me on my way to actualize Shade Alay.

03:19:07.000 Yeah, me too. 0.99

03:19:09.000 Fat Gay Retard says, I see a fat man with poor facial hair walking out of Best Buy with a Big TV feeling like a real king. 0.99

03:19:16.000 Some academic told you that this is economic freedom and economic freedom is freedom. 0.99

03:19:20.000 Feel the freedom and watch shows in 4K.

03:19:24.000 Your Twitter was gold.

03:19:25.000 Did I tweet that?

03:19:28.000 I think that is something I tweeted.

03:19:30.000 That sounds familiar.

03:19:32.000 I see a fat man with poor facial hair walking out of Best Buy with a big TV feeling like a real king.

03:19:39.000 Some academic told you that this is economic freedom and economic freedom is freedom.

03:19:45.000 Feel the freedom.

03:19:46.000 Watch shows in 4K.

03:19:48.000 That's a little trite.

03:19:49.000 That's a little, but it's true.

03:19:52.000 Based Anon says, God, you're brilliant.

03:19:55.000 You are appreciated.

03:19:56.000 Hey, thank you, man.

03:19:57.000 I appreciate that.

03:19:59.000 It's true.

03:19:59.000 I just wish I was on the debate, man.

03:20:01.000 I just wish I was in the arena, but they won't let me on.

03:20:06.000 And I tried.

03:20:07.000 After I got banned on Twitter, I tried to reach out to them.

03:20:10.000 I back channeled, and they literally were like, no, no, we're not going to have him on because if we have him on, his audience will be mean to us.

03:20:18.000 That's literally what they said.

03:20:20.000 Tim Poole said that if he had me on his show, then my audience would bully him.

03:20:26.000 So, there you have it. 0.73

03:20:29.000 Ben says From one Catholic to another, I wanted to ask you, what future do you see for our church following the reduction in its believers? 0.80

03:20:35.000 Do you think we will die out or do you think there will be a rebirth?

03:20:39.000 Well, we're never going to die out because the church is eternal.

03:20:44.000 So, I mean, that's just not going to happen.

03:20:46.000 As to whether or not the church will become strong again, I mean, I don't know.

03:20:51.000 I don't know.

03:20:52.000 We'll have to see.

03:20:56.000 I'm not really familiar with the prophecies because there are different prophecies, and some say we're on our way out, and some say there's going to be another golden age of the church.

03:21:03.000 You know, depending on, I think there are different outlooks on it.

03:21:10.000 But I honestly don't know.

03:21:11.000 I don't know what the trajectory looks like.

03:21:13.000 The future is very uncertain.

03:21:15.000 Gersh says, We need you moving the ball down the field for us.

03:21:18.000 Keep it up.

03:21:19.000 Thank you, Nick.

03:21:20.000 Yeah, I will, man.

03:21:21.000 I'm here holding down the fort.

03:21:23.000 It's what I'm good at. 1.00

03:21:25.000 Beardson Smith says, Why in the world am I watching two boneheads talking with a fat gay retard? 1.00

03:21:30.000 Oh, yeah, because a handsome genius is talking over it. 1.00

03:21:33.000 Keep up the great work, King.

03:21:34.000 Without you, politics wouldn't be worth it.

03:21:36.000 True.

03:21:37.000 True.

03:21:38.000 And thank you.

03:21:39.000 I appreciate that.

03:21:40.000 Yeah, that was miserable, man.

03:21:42.000 That wasn't even fun.

03:21:43.000 I mean, usually I enjoy the debates when it's blood sports, when it's confrontational, but that was just miserable.

03:21:50.000 Overman says, This debate, which was really an interview for Vosh, made me yearn for the old days where we got those intense Nick debates.

03:21:59.000 Really makes you appreciate those old streams.

03:22:02.000 Yes, it does.

03:22:03.000 Yeah.

03:22:04.000 Nobody can do it like me.

03:22:06.000 That's a fact.

03:22:08.000 Cringe trap.

03:22:10.000 This is what I'd be wrong in saying World War I was really the downfall of the dominance of traditional society with the collapse of the last major traditional European monarchies.

03:22:23.000 Yeah, I mean, that was definitely an inflection point for sure.

03:22:26.000 I mean, that ended the balance of powers period of peace.

03:22:32.000 And you could say that that was the last gasp of the.

03:22:35.000 Conservative monarchical powers in Europe, the last gasp of the kingdoms, the triumph of republics and democracies and all of that, industrialization and so on.

03:22:47.000 But really, I mean, that was underway for the last century, you know, for the last two centuries, really.

03:22:54.000 So I don't know that that was necessarily the downfall.

03:23:01.000 It was maybe the nail in the coffin, you might say, but it had been a long time coming. 0.69

03:23:07.000 Overman says, also, you made a great point about the shallowness of the economic working class, but would you consider Kirk of that group?

03:23:16.000 I always considered him to still be libertarian since he refuses to see the country as his family, unlike Tucker.

03:23:22.000 Well, Tucker doesn't either.

03:23:25.000 Tucker sees it in an analogous way as his family, with the state as the father, but he doesn't see the country as organic, as a community or a nation, because he thinks it's all about voting and buying and selling.

03:23:37.000 You know, this working class populism, that's the point I'm trying to make.

03:23:41.000 It's not a far cry from libertarianism because it's concerned with the same thing. 0.88

03:23:46.000 You know, it's bound up in the same thing, which is producing and consuming.

03:23:50.000 Because class is an economic identity, so it's an economic identitarianism.

03:23:54.000 You know, in the same way that libertarianism is preoccupied with class and economic freedom and all of that, you know, the populist nationalism is concerned with class and economic well being and all of that.

03:24:08.000 That it's just more nationalistic, but it's ultimately the same thing.

03:24:14.000 Big Nigga says, Going to Chicago tomorrow, anything cool to do besides eat food and the big metal bean?

03:24:21.000 Yeah, you should go on one of the boat tours if you want to go on a tour of Lake Michigan or the Chicago River, those are really fun.

03:24:32.000 But it's a food city, you can't really skip out on the food.

03:24:36.000 The food is what you want to do.

03:24:37.000 You want to get an Italian beef sandwich, you want to get a Chicago hot dog.

03:24:42.000 You can get the deep dish, but that's really kind of a tourist thing.

03:24:46.000 But you should get pizza while you're here.

03:24:49.000 And you really can't go wrong, but the Italian stuff, that's kind of those are the winners.

03:24:54.000 But yeah, I mean, you could go to Navy Pier, you could do touristy type stuff, you could go to the neighborhoods, go to the Lincoln Park Zoo, go to the Brookfield Zoo, go to Michigan Avenue.

03:25:12.000 I really like the boat tours.

03:25:13.000 That's probably my favorite thing to do downtown.

03:25:16.000 I think that's my favorite tourist type thing take an architecture tour on the river and then it goes out into the lake.

03:25:23.000 That's probably the best on a nice summer day.

03:25:27.000 That's probably my favorite.

03:25:32.000 Spinefish says I'm not trying to impress you by showing that I know esoteric Kanye songs.

03:25:37.000 I just like hearing you talk about the music.

03:25:39.000 Okay.

03:25:40.000 Yeah, I like that song.

03:25:41.000 It's a good song.

03:25:42.000 I don't really have much to say about it other than that, other than I like it.

03:25:46.000 I haven't listened to it in a while because I don't have it on my Spotify, but I don't like that most of it is in Japanese because I can't rap with it.

03:25:58.000 There's really only one verse that you can really even enjoy.

03:26:02.000 The production is very good, of course, and the lyrics are really good on that song.

03:26:07.000 I don't know why more people don't like it.

03:26:09.000 Probably because it's mostly foreign language, but that's a good one. 1.00

03:26:12.000 Fart Patrol says your analysis of Vaporwave and 2015 16 hit hard.

03:26:17.000 Thanks for being a genius, Nick.

03:26:18.000 Yeah, you're welcome.

03:26:20.000 You're welcome, of course.

03:26:22.000 I'm glad that resonates.

03:26:25.000 Awe Victoria says communism has taken over the West, and the only cure to communism is fascism.

03:26:31.000 Okay, disavow.

03:26:33.000 It has been made very clear that no other ideology can save us.

03:26:36.000 No, it's been made clear that no ideology can save us.

03:26:40.000 What a misunderstanding.

03:26:42.000 No ideology can save us.

03:26:42.000 No, wrong.

03:26:44.000 Not no other.

03:26:45.000 No.

03:26:46.000 Did fascism save us?

03:26:48.000 Last I checked, the answer is no.

03:26:52.000 So ideology will not save us, unfortunately.

03:26:55.000 Robert Buchanan was watching this at work and was thinking, how in the hell can Nick waste his time watching this? 0.99

03:27:01.000 Even a Korean dude that worked for me asked, who is the fag in the white shirt? 0.98

03:27:05.000 Well, thank you for the big super chat. 0.94

03:27:06.000 Big shout out in 07's chat for Robert Buchanan.

03:27:10.000 I appreciate it.

03:27:12.000 Yeah, man, it was brutal.

03:27:14.000 But I committed to it and I finished it, okay?

03:27:18.000 Based Quint says Did you catch Vosh saying I want to influence children? 1.00

03:27:22.000 That nigga's sus. 1.00

03:27:23.000 No, I didn't catch that. 1.00

03:27:25.000 Robert Montgomery says Did you ever get the crucifix I sent you?

03:27:28.000 I think so.

03:27:29.000 I believe I did, if it's the right one.

03:27:33.000 I have it up there on my shelf, actually.

03:27:36.000 Thank you for that.

03:27:37.000 I don't know if I have all this fan mail I still have to respond to, so I don't know if that's in my pile or not.

03:27:42.000 But if I don't get back to you, I do appreciate it.

03:27:44.000 Thank you.

03:27:45.000 It was very nice.

03:27:46.000 Kansas Zoomer says the debate may have been terrible, but at least I got to spend the evening watching America First, my favorite internet program starring Nick Fuentes, who is my favorite host and my friend.

03:27:57.000 Well, thanks a lot.

03:27:59.000 You're my friend, too. 0.99

03:28:01.000 Adolph Groyper says FGR should be changed to NGR, nasty gay reader. 1.00

03:28:08.000 I think fat's better. 1.00

03:28:09.000 Joe Miller says, Hey, Nick, can you give me access to archive vids?

03:28:12.000 I gave you $10 in entropy.

03:28:16.000 No, you have to subscribe.

03:28:18.000 So that's not really how that works.

03:28:22.000 I mean, I don't know.

03:28:23.000 You spend the $10 to get the super chat.

03:28:26.000 Now I got to go in.

03:28:27.000 Now I got to go in.

03:28:30.000 I love that.

03:28:30.000 I'm customer support now.

03:28:32.000 Well, if you get a ticket on the website, maybe someone can help you with that.

03:28:37.000 Jeff says, Did you wreck smug leftist teachers in school and college?

03:28:41.000 Not really.

03:28:42.000 Because, you know, I just, I was kind of non confrontational towards teachers.

03:28:47.000 I didn't want to, you know, get kicked out of school.

03:28:49.000 I was a little bit when I was younger, like when I was 15, but over time, I just wanted to get along more.

03:28:58.000 So, no, I didn't really.

03:28:59.000 I wasn't owning left wing teachers.

03:29:00.000 I thought that was cringy.

03:29:01.000 I don't, you know, because in as much as I am bombastic and confrontational, I don't like to bring all the attention on me.

03:29:08.000 I don't like to be that guy, you know, that's like going to.

03:29:11.000 Fight with the teacher. 1.00

03:29:12.000 I mean, I'll, uh, if I have something to say and in the appropriate forum, I'll speak my mind, you know, but, um, I'm not one of these guys that's like so autistic. 1.00

03:29:22.000 Like any mention of politics turns into blood sports, you know what I mean? 0.91

03:29:27.000 Because some people are like that.

03:29:28.000 I've never been like that.

03:29:30.000 I kind of, uh, if it's an appropriate time, I'll offer my opinion and we'll debate, but I'm, um, I'm not one of these people that's like looking everywhere to get in the, Getting a scrap.

03:29:46.000 Tralt says Charlie Kirk better be watching your stream and taking notes.

03:29:49.000 Your critique of his debate performance was spot on.

03:29:51.000 Well, hey, 07s and Chad, thank you for the big super chat.

03:29:55.000 Big shout out, friend.

03:29:57.000 I appreciate it.

03:29:59.000 And yes, no, they all should be taking notes.

03:30:03.000 I mean, the whole populist, Inc., that whole crowd, they are.

03:30:06.000 I mean, they literally are.

03:30:07.000 I can't tell you how many people.

03:30:09.000 I literally can't tell you because I don't even know that they know.

03:30:12.000 But people literally watch my show, steal all my talking points, and then go and republish them and then say, oh, you can't hang out with Nick Fuentes.

03:30:20.000 But they all watch my show and they all steal my stuff.

03:30:23.000 Happens all the time.

03:30:24.000 You know, I see how many times I see my takes on Twitter, like almost verbatim from my show, sometimes tweeted during my show.

03:30:32.000 And it's people that don't want to hang out with me, you know, or feel like they can't.

03:30:36.000 So it's very funny.

03:30:38.000 So they are taking notes.

03:30:39.000 That's a funny thing.

03:30:40.000 But they just don't get it.

03:30:42.000 They just don't get it.

03:30:43.000 But hey, thank you for the big super chat.

03:30:45.000 I appreciate it, friend.

03:30:47.000 Big shout out.

03:30:49.000 07 is a chat for Trolls.

03:30:51.000 Yeah, I thought that was pretty good.

03:30:52.000 Anand says, sorry I came too late.

03:30:54.000 Here's some money.

03:30:55.000 Thanks.

03:30:56.000 Greenblad says, hey, man, one big white pill was seeing Nick Fuentes all up and down the live chat.

03:31:01.000 Will you consider doing more Gorilla Groyper Ops?

03:31:04.000 Now that you have nothing left to be banned from?

03:31:06.000 Yeah, definitely.

03:31:08.000 Parker says, Hey, Nick, hope you're having a good night.

03:31:10.000 Yeah, I'm having an okay night.

03:31:10.000 Thanks.

03:31:12.000 I'm just really tired.

03:31:13.000 But, how's it going? 0.91

03:31:17.000 Roald says, Local Groyper here.

03:31:19.000 I saw Kirk is having a dinner fundraiser event in the Northwest suburbs on August 16th.

03:31:24.000 On Facebook, it only has 11 RSVPs.

03:31:26.000 What a joke.

03:31:27.000 If it was you, there would be 10 times as many.

03:31:31.000 That would be funny.

03:31:31.000 What if I went to it?

03:31:33.000 I was like, Listen, man, you know that whole Groyper War thing?

03:31:36.000 Let's just Let's just put our differences aside.

03:31:38.000 You got to work on some things.

03:31:41.000 Yeah, that's kind of tech.

03:31:44.000 True, though.

03:31:45.000 I mean, literally true.

03:31:46.000 But yeah, I mean, are you going to go check it out? 1.00

03:31:48.000 That would be funny if we had some Groypers go. 1.00

03:31:51.000 Kai Clips says, Hey, Nick, I went on a date today and it actually went well. 1.00

03:31:55.000 Time to tell her it isn't working out.

03:31:57.000 Dating is so boring, too. 0.52

03:31:58.000 Why do people do this? 0.91

03:32:01.000 Nicka.

03:32:02.000 This guy's going to come in and say, Hey, Nick, I went on a date and it went great.

03:32:07.000 But don't worry, I'm an insult.

03:32:09.000 But I'm relatable like you, too.

03:32:11.000 Yeah, we are not the same.

03:32:13.000 Sorry, you cannot relate.

03:32:15.000 You cannot relate.

03:32:16.000 I am an incel.

03:32:18.000 So, you know, congratulations on your date, dude.

03:32:21.000 And he's going to cope and say, well, it's boring, and I don't even want to go on a date. 1.00

03:32:26.000 Okay, nigga. 1.00

03:32:28.000 Well, I'm glad it went well. 1.00

03:32:30.000 No, you should stick with her, man.

03:32:31.000 You love dating.

03:32:32.000 Fake cell.

03:32:33.000 Go out and have a date.

03:32:34.000 Have a date. 1.00

03:32:35.000 Talk about cute girls, and all the Mormons are so cute. 0.87

03:32:40.000 Hi.

03:32:41.000 I love you so much.

03:32:44.000 Hi, let me get that for you.

03:32:45.000 Let me get your chair for you. 0.69

03:32:47.000 Waiter, waiter, only the finest for my darling.

03:32:51.000 Only the finest for my darling date.

03:32:53.000 I keep dropping my mouse.

03:32:57.000 Yeah, just own it, dude.

03:32:58.000 Just own it.

03:33:00.000 Just own it.

03:33:02.000 I'm so tired of the fakers, the fakes, and the frauds, and the lies from these fake cells.

03:33:10.000 You know, Kai Clips in the gym, and he's got all these muscles, and he's going on dates, and he comes in the live chat and says, Hey, I went on a date, but you know, I'm probably going to break up.

03:33:20.000 Anyway.

03:33:21.000 Yeah, well, congratulations. 0.95

03:33:23.000 Congratulations, freaking lations, bro. 0.91

03:33:26.000 Congratulations, friend. 0.91

03:33:30.000 Man, I love that.

03:33:31.000 Yeah, why don't you go and tell everybody about it?

03:33:34.000 What was that old super chat from like a year ago?

03:33:38.000 What the hell was it?

03:33:39.000 Somebody was.

03:33:40.000 I'm smitten, and I want to tell everyone about it.

03:33:43.000 Something like that.

03:33:44.000 I'm glad your date went well.

03:33:47.000 How did it go?

03:33:49.000 What did she order?

03:33:50.000 What did she talk about?

03:33:53.000 Was that really nice?

03:33:55.000 Do you think you like her?

03:33:57.000 Do you have feelings for her?

03:34:00.000 Isn't she just so sweet?

03:34:01.000 Does her heart make your heart flutter?

03:34:04.000 Oh my gosh.

03:34:07.000 Congratulations, King!

03:34:09.000 Oh my gosh.

03:34:11.000 Congratulations on your date, fake cell.

03:34:14.000 Elliot Rodger would have hated you. 0.97

03:34:17.000 Congratulations on your date, but you do know Elliot Rodger would have killed you, don't you? 0.85

03:34:21.000 You do know that, right?

03:34:24.000 I'm giving you a hard time. 1.00

03:34:25.000 I'm just busting your balls, buddy. 0.99

03:34:26.000 Hey, congrats on the date. 0.99

03:34:28.000 Pursue it, pursue it.

03:34:28.000 No!

03:34:30.000 Listen, listen, I'm abnormal.

03:34:32.000 Don't listen to me. 0.97

03:34:34.000 I'm a total eccentric, antisocial weirdo, okay? 0.91

03:34:39.000 So don't take my advice.

03:34:41.000 I'm bitter, and, you know, that's just how it is when you're a truly gifted individual like me.

03:34:48.000 It's just not easy to get along.

03:34:50.000 So don't listen to me.

03:34:51.000 Don't let me make you feel bad.

03:34:54.000 Go out, enjoy your date.

03:34:55.000 It's okay.

03:34:59.000 You like her, you're going on a date, you're licking the same ice cream cone, and you're holding hands.

03:35:06.000 That's really awesome.

03:35:07.000 Good for you.

03:35:08.000 Don't let me bring you down, King.

03:35:12.000 I'm all the way out there.

03:35:17.000 So don't let me ruin your date, buddy.

03:35:19.000 But congratulations.

03:35:21.000 I hope it went well.

03:35:21.000 I do.

03:35:24.000 They went to the ice cream parlor, and I don't know.

03:35:28.000 They were high fiving.

03:35:28.000 What do people do on dates?

03:35:30.000 I think I've been on like two dates in my whole life.

03:35:32.000 Arguably three.

03:35:35.000 What do you do?

03:35:36.000 Do you like, haha, good job, we did it.

03:35:40.000 What do you high five?

03:35:42.000 What do you bump each other on the hip or something?

03:35:45.000 Shake hands?

03:35:47.000 Knuckle touch?

03:35:48.000 How does that go?

03:35:49.000 What do you even talk about on a day?

03:35:50.000 What do you even talk about?

03:35:52.000 Do you have to be like bantering the whole time?

03:35:56.000 Or can you just be real?

03:35:58.000 Can you just act like a person? 0.99

03:35:59.000 Or do you have to be like, hey, sexy lady? 0.96

03:36:05.000 And that, you know, because that kind of stuff just irritates me.

03:36:10.000 The thought of doing that is just so irritating to me.

03:36:16.000 Everyone's calling me a fake self because of the high five.

03:36:20.000 Yeah, they know that's the one that drives them crazy the high five.

03:36:24.000 The knuckle touch.

03:36:25.000 Oh, because I said I went on three dates?

03:36:27.000 Yeah.

03:36:28.000 Well, one of them was a delegate dance at Model UN, one of them was before prom.

03:36:36.000 And.

03:36:38.000 Yeah, then arguably there's a third one.

03:36:40.000 Arguably there's a third one somewhere in there, without getting totally specific.

03:36:44.000 But, um.

03:36:48.000 But yeah, so I don't know.

03:36:49.000 So I don't know.

03:36:50.000 I think I'm just gonna go for like an arranged marriage, something more like that.

03:36:55.000 I think Steve Ranson is just gonna pick one for me.

03:36:58.000 He'll just assemble a lineup.

03:36:59.000 It'll be like in a Bronx tale, and I'll just pick from the lineup.

03:37:02.000 You don't have to be naked.

03:37:05.000 No, kidding.

03:37:06.000 Kidding!

03:37:07.000 Uh, but they'd be in a lineup, you know, I'd go around.

03:37:11.000 I'd go, hmm.

03:37:14.000 You know.

03:37:16.000 Okay, turn around.

03:37:20.000 And, you know, I'd be like, hmm.

03:37:27.000 No, kidding, kidding.

03:37:29.000 But, yeah, I mean, I think I'm going to sort of pick one out of a lineup.

03:37:32.000 I think that's sort of more my style.

03:37:34.000 And then we'll make it work.

03:37:36.000 You know, we'll just sort of make it work.

03:37:41.000 Because, I don't know, I think I'm a little too abrasive for anyone to sort of like.

03:37:44.000 Fall in love.

03:37:45.000 I just, I don't think that's going to happen.

03:37:46.000 So, I think we're just going to, it's just sort of going to be like, let's, let's like picking a kickball team, kind of.

03:37:56.000 So, all this is to say, congrats on your date, King.

03:37:59.000 I hope it went really well.

03:38:01.000 Zoomer guy says, Super Chatter, Iceberg, tier list explained.

03:38:06.000 Yeah, we'll have to make one of those. 0.98

03:38:08.000 George Mountain says, I'm going to give Tim Pool a wedgie for being such a dork. 0.89

03:38:12.000 We want Nick. 0.96

03:38:14.000 So, you're going to give Tim Pool a wedgie?

03:38:20.000 Where was I?

03:38:21.000 Mr. Linens, what do you think of this idea of redirecting sexual energy and anger in a creative output? 1.00

03:38:27.000 I think that's to say that out loud, I think it's extremely gay and retarded. 1.00

03:38:33.000 Shawsby says if Kirk had half a brain, he would have brought up examples such as JJ knowing about asbestos in their products when Vosh mentioned trusting the motive of the workers over the higher ups. 1.00

03:38:44.000 Yeah, I guess he could have said that.

03:38:46.000 John Freeman says, Ayo, Captain Jack, bring me back to the railroad track.

03:38:51.000 Okay. 0.85

03:38:52.000 Anglo Asian says, Are you planning on reacting to Loner Boxes, the banning of Nick Fuentes?

03:38:57.000 I wasn't planning on it because I don't know what that is.

03:38:59.000 Someone brought it up earlier, but that's still within the show, so I haven't had time to think about it.

03:39:05.000 Kai Clips says, Not calling myself an incel anymore.

03:39:07.000 Don't want to be stolen valor.

03:39:09.000 Well, I appreciate that you respect our sacrifice.

03:39:13.000 So for that reason, you're definitely okay.

03:39:16.000 Some people are just shamelessly stealing valor.

03:39:19.000 They think it's a big joke.

03:39:20.000 Yeah, well, we'll all be laughing on the day of retribution, right?

03:39:24.000 Some of us will be laughing more than others.

03:39:26.000 No.

03:39:26.000 Kidding, kidding, of course.

03:39:28.000 That's a joke.

03:39:31.000 But it is hilarious.

03:39:33.000 Vitus says, Which is the worst behavioral issue right now?

03:39:36.000 People appropriating incel culture?

03:39:38.000 People slipping back into simping?

03:39:39.000 Definitely the simping.

03:39:41.000 Rolled from AC says, I'm not going to Kirk since I don't want to give him any money.

03:39:47.000 I only give donations to you, Vince and Gab.

03:39:49.000 Andrew Torb and Gab team deserve more credit for his work.

03:39:53.000 And then he linked me to the event.

03:39:55.000 Okay, well, thanks.

03:39:57.000 Tom AF says, What do you mean, three dates?

03:39:59.000 Please say psych right now.

03:40:01.000 I am literally shaking. 0.99

03:40:02.000 WTF fake sell? 0.77

03:40:04.000 How was that fake sell? 0.96

03:40:09.000 They didn't even go well.

03:40:09.000 How dare you?

03:40:11.000 None of them went well.

03:40:12.000 So, you know, on one of them, the girl said I reminded her of her dad.

03:40:18.000 And in another one, the dad was acting really weird.

03:40:23.000 And that was all around just a weird day.

03:40:26.000 Anyway, I don't want to talk about it.

03:40:28.000 I don't want to get into it, but.

03:40:31.000 Yeah, needless to say, it was like anything else.

03:40:37.000 Like Eggman, like Elliot, or any other, really.

03:40:43.000 Kai Clips says, Hey, no hard feelings, big guy.

03:40:46.000 It can take a little verbal thrashing, but you have gone to more dances than me, which is a little sus. 0.93

03:40:50.000 Either way, I won't call myself incel, but I'm still definitely not having sex.

03:40:55.000 No chance I'm calling myself full cell, though.

03:40:57.000 Yeah, please don't say that.

03:40:59.000 Somehow, even worse.

03:41:02.000 But Rock On. 0.97

03:41:03.000 Fizz bump on not having sex. 0.98

03:41:06.000 I'm with you on that one.

03:41:07.000 I don't think it's ever going to happen.

03:41:09.000 And you know what?

03:41:10.000 And that's a good thing.

03:41:11.000 I'm kidding. 1.00

03:41:12.000 Of course, I'll have to have sex with my wife so that I can have a male heir. 1.00

03:41:16.000 But, you know, of course, that's going to come later. 1.00

03:41:21.000 Michael Smith says that debate was so boring.

03:41:23.000 I literally fell asleep for a minute at one point.

03:41:25.000 It was cool meeting you at the rally last year in Atlanta, by the way.

03:41:30.000 Yeah, great meeting you too.

03:41:32.000 And I agree, the debate was boring.

03:41:35.000 Okay, is that the last super chat?

03:41:38.000 I think that's our last one.

03:41:39.000 Okay, alright, that's gonna do it for me tonight.

03:41:43.000 That is my last super chat.

03:41:45.000 This mouse cord is too long, my foot keeps getting stuck under it.

03:41:50.000 That is so annoying.

03:41:55.000 Is there any way I can pull it?

03:41:59.000 Yeah, there we go.

03:42:01.000 Jeez, keep kicking the mouse, you know?

03:42:05.000 Because the mouse cord hangs like under the tray, and I keep like catching it on my ankle.

03:42:11.000 It's really annoying.

03:42:12.000 All right, anyway.

03:42:14.000 That's going to do it for me on the show tonight.

03:42:18.000 Well, thanks for watching.

03:42:19.000 Remember, we'll be back at our normal time tomorrow at 8 o'clock Central Time, but same place.

03:42:26.000 Remember, I'm on the air.

03:42:27.000 Wait, wait, hang on.

03:42:29.000 Follow me on Gavin Telegram.

03:42:30.000 Links are down below.

03:42:32.000 And I'm on the air Monday through Friday, 8 p.m. Central, 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on AmericaFirst.live and Rumble.

03:42:38.000 Thanks for watching.

03:42:39.000 And I am sorry that we all had to go through that, but we did it together.

03:42:43.000 Thanks to our super chatter subscribers, everybody that watches the show.

03:42:47.000 We love you.

03:42:47.000 I'll see you tomorrow.

03:42:48.000 Until then, have a great rest of your evening.

America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - August 19, 2021

LIVE - CHARLIE KIRK VS VAUSH (FGR) DEBATE | America First Ep. 853

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Transcript