00:00:07.000Many of you probably know him from other debates.
00:00:10.000Others may know him from the video we have on our channel called Saving Arthur Shopper, where we went into the trenches in Berkeley, California, and saved him from being spit on in a corner surrounded by people who were spitting on him.
00:01:12.000My understanding of it is that the Jews needed to have their own homeland because they were facing unfettered persecution, starting in the late 1870s in France, which was supposed to be the most egalitarian country in Western Europe.
00:01:25.000And even there, they faced persecution.
00:01:27.000The Dreyfus Affair was the most egregious element.
00:01:31.000And so you had Theodore Herzl saying the Jews need to have a homeland.
00:01:35.000I support it specifically because it's a biblical reality.
00:01:40.000I have talked about this before and I don't run away from it.
00:01:43.000I take God at his word that Jews would be returning back to Israel.
00:02:01.000I believe that the Jews have a right to have a homeland right there in the Middle East in their ancestral lands, although some people want to make the argument that they stole it or that it's occupied.
00:02:46.000By the way, we have cell phones today because of inventors in Israel.
00:02:50.000They are working on, I was going to mention this in our chat beforehand, they are working on a flying car right now, the X Hawk, relying on drone technology.
00:02:59.000They have helped provide water and food to millions in Africa and even in the hostile nations next door to them.
00:03:28.000Yeah, so on Zionism, I don't really have very strong feelings one way or the other in terms of whether or not it should exist, whether or not it should exist in Palestine or anything like that.
00:03:40.000My problem is only when they influence our interests, when they influence our country.
00:03:45.000I think that if you look at Zionism, it's been really a great disaster in terms of.
00:03:50.000We've had this project which has been unfolding in the Middle East for about 140 years now.
00:03:55.000And we've seen that this country has essentially operated as a rogue country, has essentially operated as the foremost pariah state in the region.
00:04:04.000We look at any of the conflicts of the last 25, 30 years, and I think Israel is at the root of them all.
00:04:10.000You could go back to the 1980s plan for Israel by the Oded Yunnan regime.
00:04:16.000I think you could go back to the Clean Break Memo.
00:04:19.000You can go back to a number of documents drawn up in the last 35 and 40 years where they explicitly planned for a very Very chaotic, very destabilizing foreign policy in the Middle East.
00:04:30.000And so, you know, for example, you look at the Iraq war in 2003.
00:04:34.000I think Israel was responsible for the push for ousting Saddam Hussein in order to secure their northern border.
00:04:41.000I think the present Syrian civil war is a consequence of Israel's foreign policy.
00:04:45.000The present push for war with Iran is a consequence of Israel's foreign policy.
00:04:49.000And so when you look at what Israel has wrought in the Middle East, it's something that's completely contrary to our interests.
00:04:55.000And so, you know, people get called Israel first, people get called Israel first.
00:05:02.000And that's because I think it's almost mutually exclusive that you support America's interests in the region as well as Israel's interests in the region.
00:05:11.000I'll give you one example America's single central objective in Syria is the defeat of ISIS.
00:05:17.000You've had multiple high ranking government ministers in Israel, from the defense minister to their military intelligence chief, who have all said that they do not explicitly seek the defeat of ISIS in Syria.
00:05:30.000They say, in fact, they'd rather have ISIS in Syria.
00:06:49.000So, first of all, when you're a small state that's smaller than the nation, smaller than the state of New Jersey, one of the military interests that ultimately has to come into play is keeping enemies fighting each other.
00:07:02.000And I would submit that may be an argument why they said what they said about ISIS.
00:07:06.000I was not aware of those specific comments by the generals.
00:07:11.000Our interest in the region as Americans.
00:07:14.000Second of all, to me, the fact that this term Zionism, there's a distinction I want to draw out immediately.
00:07:21.000Are we talking about Zionism, the entity of Israel, the country, or are we also talking about the government?
00:07:26.000My answer is any citizen should distrust their government.
00:07:30.000There's nothing wrong with being critical of the government.
00:07:32.000The Ariel Sharon government was foolish to give away Gaza and tearing out Israeli settlers and citizens in that region.
00:07:41.000It's now turned into a third world shithole.
00:07:43.000The argument that Israel is the source of all the problems in the region is just untenable.
00:07:50.000The fact is that there have been pogroms against Jews in Libya, in Iraq, before Israel even showed up.
00:07:56.000There was hatred of Jews in the region beforehand.
00:08:00.000The Israelis, when they established the state, they were more than willing to have the Arabs live there as well.
00:08:05.000But the mindset we've seen from the teachings in the Quran to the present day is that Jews are enemies.
00:08:10.000They're the descendants of chimps and apes, and they should be pushed into the sea.
00:08:14.000There can be no discussion of peace when one side of the discussion does not believe the other side has a right to live.
00:08:20.000That isn't just Dennis Prager talking.
00:08:22.000That is Newt Gingrich, Condoleezza Rice, and Thomas Friedman.
00:08:25.000They had this roundtable with George Stephanopoulos in 2006.
00:08:30.000Stop blaming Israel for the problems in the Middle East.
00:08:33.000Why don't we talk about the rampant hatred?
00:08:35.000What are some of the few books that you can buy in Syria?
00:08:38.000Nick, do you know what some of the one book that is very popular in Syria right now, if there's time to read, is The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a czarist forgery which has been thoroughly debunked.
00:08:49.000And then you wonder why there is widespread hatred of Jews.
00:08:52.000It's been going on a lot longer than the inception of Israel as a state in 1948.
00:09:46.000But you seem to have glossed over the fact that we give this country $3.8 billion per year, and that's only in direct financial aid.
00:09:55.000You gloss over the fact that we give them all this money in spite of the fact that they are.
00:09:59.000Actively working against our interests.
00:10:02.000And you also gloss over the fact that they not only had a vested interest in all the chaos and destabilization in the Middle East, but actually there's a lot of evidence that they were directly responsible for it.
00:10:15.000You kind of swept all that under the rug to make this case of, oh, well, Israel's a moral nation and they shouldn't have done this and they shouldn't have done that.
00:10:22.000And I think that's kind of irrelevant to the entire conversation.
00:10:25.000I frankly, I don't really care what goes on in the Eastern Mediterranean.
00:10:29.000The Eastern Mediterranean is not a strategically important region in the world.
00:10:33.000I think if you're looking at it from America's point of view, we want a stable Middle East.
00:10:37.000We want the Persian Gulf to keep pumping out oil.
00:10:40.000We don't want one country to control the Persian Gulf.
00:10:42.000If you look at how Israel affects those interests or ISIS or a number of other issues, Israel is either neutral or they're working against our interests.
00:10:52.000And you say, like, oh, I haven't heard those comments.
00:11:18.000Harry Truman did when he first recognized Israel, despite the fact that you agree with his sentiment that black people and Asian people should live in different countries besides the United States.
00:11:28.000Harry Truman was one of the first to recognize the state of Israel, recognizing its role to play.
00:11:32.000Do you want to know why he supported Israel's?
00:11:43.000In his own words, he said that the Jewish voters were much more influential than were the Arab Palestinian voters.
00:11:50.000So, actually, if you look at the history of how we recognized Israel as a sovereign nation under Truman in 1948, all of the State Department advised him against it.
00:12:01.000They said if we recognized Israel, it would actually hurt our standing with the other Arab nations because, as you know, the Cold War was in its early stages and we were competing for.
00:12:13.000These countries like Egypt, Syria, they were almost in the Arab Republic together, like Saudi Arabia, Iran, others.
00:12:22.000And it actually hurt our standing with those countries to recognize them.
00:12:26.000But Truman said that domestically it would be a much bigger hurdle if we were to not do it because the Jews would be upset than if we were to refuse and then the Arabs would let them.
00:12:37.000The point is that he recognized them, didn't he?
00:12:40.000Yeah, but I think you already are glossing over the fact that the reason he recognized them was not because it was in our national.
00:12:48.000Not because it was in our national security interest, but it was because the Jewish influence in the country forced us to put their interests ahead of our own.
00:12:57.000And you say, oh, well, but we recognize that.
00:13:00.000So you're making the claim that there were Jewish advisors here and here who told them to do it.
00:13:04.000No, I'm saying that there were powerful Zionists at the time.
00:13:08.000And look, this is not even disputed by mainstream historians.
00:13:11.000The Zionist movement was very powerful for the first 50 years of the 20th century and powerful influences in Wall Street, in media, and Harry Truman.
00:13:21.000I don't know if they put pressure on him.
00:13:25.000But Harry Truman himself, he's quoted as saying that the reason he recognized Israel is because the Jews would make a big fuss about that and the Arabs wouldn't.
00:15:41.000I just think the problem with the argument that it's in our interest to have a strong and stable Israel is that nine times out of ten, the arguments for a strong and stable Israel can be reduced to a tautology.
00:16:38.000Well, when the Jews established the state of Israel in 1948, I think it's worth mentioning that before, you know, People like to make it out, Zionists like to make it out like Israel was the lone country and they tried to drive them into the sea on four wars of aggression by an Arab coalition.
00:16:55.000When in fact, the Zionists committed 11 separate massacres against the Palestinian people before a single Arab country declared war on them in 1948.
00:17:06.000So I think that's a worthwhile statistic.
00:17:08.000But regardless of that fact, in 1948, when the Jews established the state of Israel, they drove a quarter of a million Palestinians out of the land and into.
00:17:33.000And then what ensued in Lebanon was a brutal, brutal war.
00:17:38.000A civil war first that was encouraged by Israel.
00:17:41.000They funded all the different factions.
00:17:43.000And then Israel just went in in the 1980s.
00:17:45.000And in fact, Osama bin Laden, when he saw the brutal Israeli attacks on the high rise buildings in Beirut, That's where he said he got his inspiration for 9 11.
00:17:55.000But out of that sectarian conflict in Lebanon, which was nurtured by Israel, that's where you got the group Hezbollah.
00:18:02.000And so Hezbollah has conducted exactly zero terror attacks on the United States.
00:18:07.000Hezbollah has nothing to do with the Persian Gulf, which is the strategically important region in the Middle East.
00:18:12.000The reason that we need to keep Hezbollah in check is because they create a problem on Israel's northern border.
00:18:20.000So you're saying, I want Israel to be strong so that Israel can repel the threats to Israel.
00:19:12.000And second of all, I see, you know, for me, I want to see a liberal in the truest sense culture where men and women are able to thrive, where people of different backgrounds are able to survive too.
00:19:25.000But I will always come back to my basic biblical conviction I want the state of Israel to exist and I want them to thrive.
00:19:31.000Because that's in line with God's will, and it's something that I believe in.
00:19:34.000So, if you find that that's not in this country's best interest, I can't help you there because I believe that a strong Israel is a blessing to the world, and that includes to us.
00:19:42.000I hate liberalism in all its forms, even classical.
00:20:07.000I'm going to emphatically disagree with you on that.
00:20:09.000It's the same fascist impulses that we saw in Nazi Germany, not just pushing 6 million Jews into ovens, but 7 million other undesirable groups.
00:22:10.000Before we got into, I guess, the ideological debate, which is kind of a whole other animal in itself.
00:22:20.000I wanted to talk about the morality of Israel because this is something we hear a lot from the Zionists.
00:22:27.000Israel is the only democratic country, they're the best country, you know, and they're a shining light.
00:22:33.000I want to read to you some quotes by the founders of Israel.
00:22:38.000So here's a quote: Here's a quote by David Ben Gurion, who is the first prime minister of Israel.
00:22:46.000He said in June of 1937: Were I an Arab, I would rebel even more vigorously.
00:22:52.000Bitterly and desperately against the immigration, the Jewish immigration, that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule.
00:23:01.000He wrote in his diary on January 1st, 1948 There is a need now for strong and brutal action.
00:23:10.000We need to be accurate about timing, place, and those we hit.
00:23:13.000If we accuse a family, we need to harm them without mercy, women and children included.
00:23:19.000There is no need to distinguish between guilty and non guilty.
00:23:23.000Let's look at the NGO Save the Children.
00:23:26.000Which estimated that during the first intifada, between 6,500 and 8,500 Palestinian children were wounded by gunfire during the first two years.
00:23:37.000Regarding the 106 recorded cases of child gunshot deaths, almost all of them were hit by directed, not random or ricochet fire.
00:23:45.000Most were not participating in demonstrations when shot.
00:23:48.000So they were basically just gunned down.
00:23:50.000Here's one by Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, who said, quote, neither Jewish ethics, Nor Jewish traditions can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.
00:24:02.000Rather, terrorism has a great part to play in our war against the occupier.
00:24:06.000And interestingly enough, he was referring to the occupier as Great Britain, as Great Britain controlled the mandate of.
00:24:13.000Well, I mean, I think you're laughing at terrorism and you're laughing at people being killed.
00:25:01.000Tell me why I'm wrong to think those are immoral statements and actions.
00:25:05.000Okay, so first of all, when you've got the Jewish people having to move into another country and their lives are routinely threatened, persecuted, and they're killed in massive numbers, how do you think they're going to respond?
00:25:16.000Oh, we're going to be nice and we're not going to be as rough around the edges.
00:25:19.000Second of all, David Ben Gurion does not speak for every Israeli.
00:25:22.000And that to me is another part of this problem when it comes to this critique of Israel.
00:25:27.000Nobody has mentioned the USS Liberty yet, so I guess I will have to because I know it's in the back of your minds.
00:25:34.000So, USS Liberty, I'm going to concede, just for the sake of argument for now, that if you had the Israeli government, which had specifically and viciously targeted an American ship, okay, conceding that this was a cruel, evil tactic to try to bring the United States into the Six Day War, it does not justify smearing every single Israeli citizen in the country.
00:25:57.000It does not justify smearing the successive governments.
00:26:49.000There is no regard for human life, there's no regard for Arab life, and there's no regard for America's interest.
00:26:55.000And, you know, look, you can say the USS Liberty, and I can point to you 100 quotes, 100 examples where this has happened from.
00:27:03.000From Theodore Herzl all the way up through to Bibi Netanyahu.
00:27:06.000I mean, this is a pattern of behavior.
00:27:08.000You had Ben Gurion, who founded the country, who was the first prime minister.
00:27:12.000You had the USS Liberty in 67, all the way up through the two intifadas to Bibi Netanyahu, warmongering now.
00:27:18.000It's a consistent pattern of behavior.
00:27:21.000I'm not saying one action has determined that the Zionist state is a pariah state.
00:27:26.000It is this consistent pattern that we've seen perpetually by just about every regime without fail.
00:27:33.000And you have yet, I mean, you start out with your argument, which is it's important because Israel is a moral country.
00:27:40.000And I tell you that the founding head of state of the country said that they would kill women and children, they wouldn't discriminate between guilty and non guilty.
00:27:51.000Where out of the 106 cases of children being shot, it was directed, meaning it wasn't an accidental.
00:27:57.000And you say, well, they just have to play rough.
00:28:03.000I mean, that's just sick and hypocritical.
00:28:05.000And then you try and brush it aside by saying, you pivot to the USS Liberty, which is fascinating because the USS Liberty is a case where they deliberately killed Americans.
00:28:15.000And you can say you disagree with that, but Robert McNamara, a number of people, I'm sorry, every veteran who is on that ship has said, That it was a deliberate attack.
00:28:25.000It was impossible for it not to be a deliberate attack.
00:28:27.000It's funny that the only place you can pivot is a disputed case where Israel directly killed American sailors.
00:28:55.000You're trying to draw from that analogy.
00:28:56.000I'm giving you his answer war is hell.
00:28:59.000You want to talk about being fascinated and finding it astounding?
00:29:02.000Let's talk about the fact that you continue to ignore the terrorist attacks that are committed by the quote unquote Palestinians who really didn't even exist.
00:29:09.000They were created as another proxy state, essentially, to hassle and harass and just go after Israel.
00:30:33.000But I don't think you can roll up on Palestinians who have been living there continuously for something like, what, 12, 1,100 years and say, well, the Bible says this is our land now, so we're now going to drive you out.
00:31:53.00099% of the people were Muslim, 1% were Christian.
00:31:58.00095% of the land was controlled by Muslims, 5% of the land was controlled by Christians.
00:32:03.000So you may have your UN mandate, and we could get into how that UN mandate even came about.
00:32:08.000But the fact of the matter is, the Jewish people can't emigrate to this country.
00:32:13.000They can't come to this country and then simply demand, by virtue of them being here, and oh, well, the United Nations says so, that suddenly we've now invented a right to this territory.
00:32:24.000And you can have a biblical conviction.
00:32:27.000That's the case, but that will not hold up in international law.
00:32:31.000That will not hold up in any conception of Westphalian sovereignty.
00:32:34.000You know, imagine if the Muslims showed up to the eastern seaboard of the United States or, like they're doing in Europe, they showed up in Spain or in Italy and they said, the Quran says that we can dominate this land.
00:32:53.000So I think it's just a ridiculous assumption.
00:32:56.000And you're right, I am entirely ambivalent about it, but if you're going to make this ridiculous claim, I would contest it, but I think it's fundamentally irrelevant to the question of whether or not Israel should receive our support and is a moral country.
00:33:10.000Now, my response to that is actually, you had a number of settlers, Jews, who came into the region, which was for the greater part, it was not developed.
00:33:19.000A lot of it was laid foul and nothing was happening.
00:33:21.000So, this argument that you had mass immigration to Israel that was displacing Muslims or Arabs in the area in the late 1800s, early 1900s is just not true.
00:33:34.000This idea that they had been displacing or pushing them out before is not true.
00:33:39.000The religious element does come into this, however, because you have Muslims who are taught to hate Jews and to hate the Jewish state.
00:33:46.000And this is even before focusing on Jews specifically, this hatred of Jews was taking place even before there was a Jewish state that was there.
00:33:54.000This is a common argument that is pro Palestinian, which is that Arabs didn't start hating Jews and start committing terrorist acts against them until they moved into the territory and took up space.
00:34:04.000The fact is that hatred of Jews has been going on for thousands of years.
00:35:01.000Now, this is the Palestinian loss of land map, and in the green, you can see the Palestinian land back in 1946, and in the yellow, it was the land of Israel.
00:35:13.000In the present day today, we are looking at the green being Palestinian land.
00:35:19.000Now, currently, I was just watching a documentary yesterday on Al Jazeera or one of these other, I can't remember which one it was, but they were showing actual full on like annexations of people being pushed out of their home.
00:35:37.000We have Israel illegally occupying the West Bank, illegally occupying in Golan Heights.
00:35:45.000And when I say illegal, I mean not just the military occupying it, but actual citizens occupying it.
00:35:51.000And so I just want to say this yes, I do hold the views here.
00:35:58.000And I just want to talk on this point here.
00:36:00.000How can we say that that loss of land, no matter if they're crazy Muslim terrorists or whatever the case may be, how can we say that that imperialism in modern day, we all have imperialism past, in modern day is actually moral?
00:36:25.000Well, you know, I think Arthur's deflecting because, I mean, it's simply the facts are simply against him.
00:36:31.000And look, you could argue on a pragmatic basis that the U.S. should support Israel because they're a good ally or whatever, but he chose to stake out a claim that they were a moral country, and that's problematic for him.
00:36:43.000If he were to say that Israel is a useful ally like Saudi Arabia, which by no stretch is a moral nation, then he'd have an argument.
00:36:50.000But the fact of the matter is, whether you look at the 1948 war, whether you look at the 1967 war, the response to the Intifadas, you look at the grand designs they have for the region, their moral is probably the last word you could use to describe this regime.
00:37:06.000And look, that's not even my contention with them.
00:37:09.000Frankly, I don't really care about that, really, at the end of the day.
00:37:23.000But he is going to stake out the claim that.
00:37:26.000Israel is exceptional, and he can't justify it seemingly on pragmatic grounds, so he resorts to this moral.
00:37:32.000And I think it just simply doesn't exist.
00:37:35.000Unless you're using this almost willingly blind, willingly naive vision of history, just about any document, any quote, you can ask the Zionists themselves, the Zionist terrorist organizations such as the Ergun, among others, they are recognized by both the Zionists and the Arabs as having invented modern day terrorism, they invented the bus bombing.
00:38:03.000It was either Ben Gurion or it was another.
00:38:05.000But they were asked by the television host, they said, How do you feel that you're described as the father of terrorism in the Middle East?
00:38:12.000And they responded, The father of terrorism in the Middle East?
00:38:15.000We're the father of terrorism in all the world.
00:38:17.000I mean, this is from the Zionists themselves.
00:38:21.000And Arthur can roll his eyes and say, Oh, boy, but those are simply the Zionists.
00:38:30.000I mean, he's attacking me for the moral argument, but really you're seeing the absolute moral equivalency that has dominated this discussion in the world at large and why we see a problem here.
00:38:40.000I don't recall Jews strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up pizzerias.
00:38:44.000I don't recall Jews shooting up public spaces.
00:40:17.000There's a sleeper cell of Zionist terrorists.
00:40:20.000They were targeting Egyptian, British, and American civilian targets in Egypt.
00:40:26.000Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence to plant bombs inside of Egypt, American, and British owned civilian targets.
00:40:38.000And the point of which was they were going to attack American and British targets and blame it on the Egyptians to drag America, well, actually, to get America to not be in an alliance with Egypt because America and Egypt were coming together.
00:40:52.000And so that was the point of that was to sabotage US diplomacy with an ally during the Cold War.
00:40:58.000I don't understand how any American could justify this.
00:41:24.000The USS Liberty, Israel killed more Americans in one attack than Hezbollah has ever killed, than Palestinian Islamic Jihad has ever killed Americans, than the Palestinian Authority, than the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
00:41:40.000All of them put together have killed less Americans than Israel on that one day with the USS Liberty.
00:42:03.000Well, wait, wait, but if you have evidence that those investigations occurred, sure, a ten thousand dollar prize by the USS Liberty Veterans Association.
00:42:16.000They're giving out right now, and they have run this contest for years now.
00:42:20.000They said they were offering up ten thousand dollars for anybody that can prove that those investigations were official and actually occurred and completely investigated the USS Liberty.
00:42:30.000Nobody's taken them up on it because it didn't happen.
00:42:33.000And of course, you can look at the American Legion, the VFW, the USS Liberty.
00:44:28.000And if you call that Israel first, that's wrong because it sounds to me that you got a guy here who is Iran first, who is big statism first.
00:44:36.000And I don't know how you reconcile that.
00:44:38.000Well, I'll tell you how I reconcile that.
00:44:41.000I do not support Iran, I don't defend Iran, I don't say a strong and stable Iran.
00:45:11.000The non proliferation treaty, which every country is expected to sign, is illegal to proliferate weapons of mass destruction.
00:45:19.000Israel to be open and candid with all their mortal enemies around them and say, We don't have any nuclear weapons, and therefore they set themselves up.
00:48:13.000I want people to challenge it, but he was in the middle of the conversation.
00:48:15.000I want you to see this, ladies and gentlemen.
00:48:17.000You have a guy who wants a denuclearized Israel, but is okay with Iran and their leader saying we should blow Israel off the face of the earth.
00:48:25.000I can tell you, if Ahmed Nutjob had said, let's blow America off the face of the earth, the first thing I would not be saying is, I don't think we should have nuclear weapons.
00:48:51.000The trick is this the introduction of nuclear weapons to the Middle East causes a little problem called nuclear proliferation.
00:49:00.000When you have one country that has a nuclear arsenal and they have a rival that can only respond with conventional weapons, you have what's called a security dilemma, which means that, of course, Iran or other countries cannot compete with Israel with simply conventional weapons.
00:49:17.000So, the very presence of nuclear weapons in the Middle East creates an incentive for Iran to develop an arsenal.
00:50:58.000I mean, there's open defiance with the Jewish state notwithstanding.
00:51:01.000But when you have Iran, I go back again to Ahmadinejad saying we want to blow Israel off the face of the earth.
00:51:08.000You have these radical Iranian mullahs at the top of the heap who have this religious vision of bringing in the Maghdi, and they have a very clear and pernicious reason to be developing nuclear weapons.
00:51:21.000Again, we see a moral equivalency here.
00:51:23.000The United Kingdom has nuclear weapons, and so does France.
00:51:26.000I'm not worried about those countries having nuclear weapons because there is a fundamental pro Western culture.
00:51:32.000Hopefully, it'll still last in Great Britain and France, in spite of the overwhelming Muslim mass migration, or that they'll be able to get past that.
00:51:40.000So, just looking at countries having nuclear weapons is not the end of it.
00:51:45.000Iran here has a pernicious hatred of Israel and a hatred of Jews.
00:51:48.000They want to develop nuclear weapons and blow up Israel because it's part of their religious zealotry.
00:52:11.000I know you didn't like me drawing that analogy, but it goes to show war is hell, and total war is sometimes what ends up happening.
00:52:17.000It certainly happened during World War I.
00:52:20.000And please don't blame the Jews for that.
00:52:22.000Well, we could certainly talk about the Balfour Declaration and Louis Brandeis if you want to get into World War I.
00:52:29.000However, on the subject of nuclear weapons, you know, again, you can point to France, you can point to the permanent five members of the Security Council who have nuclear weapons.
00:53:09.000In Western Europe, you already have, or rather, in Europe as a whole, You have the UK and France having nuclear weapons, they're already balanced by the Soviet Union.
00:53:19.000The Soviet Union developed an atomic bomb in 1949 in response to the United States having a nuclear weapon.
00:53:26.000France and the UK developed a nuclear weapon to balance against the Soviet Union.
00:53:30.000China developed a nuclear weapon to balance against the Western powers and the Soviet Union.
00:53:34.000What you have is that security dilemma, which creates an incentive for nuclear proliferation.
00:53:40.000In the Middle East, the introduction of nuclear weapons to Israel.
00:53:45.000Created where there was not an incentive, the incentive to develop a nuclear arsenal.
00:53:50.000And so people like yourself will say that it's a good thing that we disarm Iran.
00:53:55.000Well, the reason that Iran desires a nuclear arsenal is to deter not only against a strike from Israel or to achieve parity with Israel, but also to deter a strike from the United States.
00:54:07.000Look at all the governments that we've gone around in the past 15 years simply toppling from Iraq to Libya to Somalia to Sudan.
00:54:19.000Almost requires a nuclear arsenal as a deterrent.
00:54:21.000Now, I don't think they should have it because I think it's not in our interest that they have it, but you can understand where it comes from.
00:54:26.000It's not because of this fanatical rhetoric.
00:54:30.000That's the rhetoric of the regime, but you have to distinguish between the rhetoric and the practice of the regime.
00:54:35.000The Iranian regime, although they have apocalyptic, zealot rhetoric, they have not acted as though they are a suicidal regime.
00:54:44.000In every case, you can see that they are rational actors, no different than any other in the region.
00:54:51.000Well, I emphatically disagree with that, and I guess that's where it's going to have to stand.
00:54:54.000That's a risk that I don't want to take.
00:54:56.000But this argument you're making, Israel develops nuclear capabilities, and so these Arab states are fearful, and therefore they want to start developing nuclear capabilities.
00:55:05.000The fact is, you've seen this relentless hatred of Israel, this relentless hatred of Jews for a long time, longer than before the establishment of the Jewish state.
00:55:13.000There's been an interest in blowing them up, getting rid of them entirely.
00:55:16.000Let's not forget the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who worked with Hitler with the final solution.
00:55:22.000So I'm emphatically disagreeing with that.
00:55:24.000I'm not going to change you on that, but I share that with the rest of the other.
00:55:29.000I was trying not to interrupt, so please don't interrupt me.
00:55:32.000This is for the rest of the audience to see.
00:55:34.000This, to me, you want to talk about delusional because that's a comment he used on Twitter as well.
00:55:38.000It is delusional to look at a regime like Iran, headed by radical religious zealots who are pushed by this eschatological vision to blow up Israel.
00:55:52.000And by the way, that shows that there's a strategic interest in having Israel there to put pressure on these regimes so they don't attack us.
00:56:18.000Yeah, well, because it's a laughable position that you staked out.
00:56:22.000I mean, and you can bring it up, it's really fascinating to me because when I was in high school, I was really entrenched in all of the boomer Zionist kind of rhetoric.
00:56:34.000The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who went and collaborated with Hitler and all that.
00:56:40.000And I brought up and I interrupted you, for which I apologize.
00:56:51.000And I think you'd be surprised to find out that in 1933, the Nazi government collaborated with the Zionist German Jews in something called the Havara Agreement.
00:57:23.000They would buy German manufactured goods, which would be shipped to Palestine.
00:57:27.000And you understand in this context that the Zionist Jews were a real cutthroat lot, very ruthless.
00:57:35.000And in fact, this was only one of many.
00:57:38.000Very questionable alliances that they made, or questionable choices they made to get Jews to emigrate.
00:57:43.000You saw that throughout the 1930s, they actually were the stimulants behind many anti Semitic attacks in Eastern Europe and also in Iraq to drive Jews to Palestine.
00:57:56.000The Zionists said, We have this dream for the state, we have to populate it.
00:58:01.000Not enough Jews are coming to Palestine.
00:58:03.000So in Eastern Europe, they started perpetrating these vast anti Semitic hoaxes.
00:58:08.000To drive Ashkenazi Jews from places like Poland and Russia.
00:58:12.000Poland didn't exist at the time, but to drive them down into, or no, excuse me, it did exist at the time.
00:58:54.000You're bringing up this collaboration agreement that doesn't dissuade the fact that for Hitler, his plan was a final solution to get rid of all Jewry.
00:59:03.000So you have this incremental attempt first to just get them out.
00:59:14.000Yeah, well, let me ask you a very simple question Can you produce a single document where Hitler signed off on something called the final solution?
01:00:35.000I think it is unfortunate that we see a generation of youths, millennials, whatever, have a hatred of Israel, have a hatred of the Holocaust.
01:01:30.000Was there a question before that, or was there a refutation you were offering about why Zionism is bad?
01:01:35.000Or why the Middle Eastern wars are unjust, or yeah, the question is Israel is not our ally.
01:01:41.000Well, hold on, we're gonna get into the Middle Eastern wars.
01:01:45.000Arthur and Nick, we're gonna get into the Middle Eastern wars right now, but I have to get through a couple of these just so towards the end of the show I don't have to read too many of them.
01:01:54.000All right, so these are now Dan Dan Bam for two dollars says they put their messiah on a stick.
01:02:02.000Dan Dan Bam again for two dollars says, Arthur, do you know what a crypto Jew is?
01:02:07.000Sam Sam says, Arthur, are you familiar with the Talmud and what it preaches about the non Jew Gentiles?
01:02:15.000Alphonsus for $5 says, Thanks for hosting, Vince.
01:04:49.000There's in support, and then there's not in support.
01:04:52.000I would gladly read any super chats you send me.
01:04:55.000If there's Arthur Shopper fans out there, send me your super chats, and I will fucking read them on air.
01:05:02.000But we don't have time to read all the comments.
01:05:05.000We have 1,300 people watching and we're bleeding viewers because this is happening.
01:05:09.000So I have to get through this and I have to keep on schedule because I'm a very obsessive compulsive person and I like things to be organized.
01:05:17.000So, Arthur Shopper, today you said on Twitter that you support the war in Iraq.
01:05:26.000And I want to ask both of you do you support the war in Iraq?
01:05:30.000Do you support the intervention in the Middle East?
01:07:02.000Yeah, so I am against the Iraq war, of course.
01:07:05.000Like Donald Trump, I'm against the Iraq war, which is weird because you know, you bill yourself as the Trump loving Moggapede and yet you're a fucking neocon.
01:07:13.000So, it's very weird why you seem to be again.
01:07:42.000And he's still calling me a boomer, folks, even though I'm a warning.
01:07:46.000I want to say Arthur, he let you finish your response to why the Iraq war is going on.
01:07:55.000I don't have to let him finish because if you're going to have somebody, if this is all that they can resort to, is the flimsy name calling, the arguments that there's no documentation that supports the Holocaust, the same kind of sniveling hatred that says Jews don't have a right to protect themselves in Iran, oh my God, they should have a nuclear weapon because those Jews are so scary because they want to throw everybody off the face of their own.
01:11:46.000He got a little bit of pushback, and then he got it's that meme when you have Wajak with the laughing face mask, but he's crying behind it.
01:11:57.000You know, I had Halsey on with Frame Game and Angelo yesterday, and I did ask him.
01:12:05.000I was asking him if he wanted to team up with someone against you, but I don't think that he wants to.
01:12:51.000You know, when you've got a guy who says Iran has a right to defend itself because it's a victim of a hostile Jewish state, it's a little difficult to be quiet for that.
01:13:00.000I literally thought your feet actually cut out.
01:15:52.000Okay, Nick, why do you not support the Iraq War?
01:15:56.000Yeah, the Iraq War was probably the biggest mistake in American history.
01:16:01.000And to understand why, you have to understand the genesis of the Iraq War.
01:16:05.000You have to understand the decision makers who brought us to war in Iraq, which was an extremely Zionist and Jewish neoconservative intellectual class.
01:20:07.000But if we want to talk about the Iraq war, we have to understand who brought us to war in Iraq.
01:20:12.000It was people like Richard Pearl, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz.
01:20:17.000David Wormser, all people who, by the way, authored, with the exception of Wolfowitz, authored the Clean Break Memo in 1996, which they said was this was for Bibi Netanyahu in 1996.
01:20:30.000These three, Pearl, Fief, Wormser, they wrote a memo for Bibi Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel, in which they described a new foreign policy for Israel.
01:20:40.000And in one of the sections entitled Securing the Northern Border, they said the only way they could secure the Northern Border is if they take out Syria, if they take out Lebanon.
01:20:51.000And the way they get to Syria and Lebanon is by first taking out Iraq.
01:20:56.000Now, that's not an exceptional thing in and of itself.
01:20:59.000Not really remarkable that these three gentlemen wrote a memo.
01:21:02.000What is exceptional is that Fife, Pearl, and Wormser wrote this memo about taking out Iraq in order to take out Syria in 1996 for Bibi Netanyahu.
01:21:14.000Five years later, they come and they work in the Bush administration.
01:21:19.000Fife and Pearl work as undersecretaries of defense.
01:21:23.000In the Defense Department, they create an office in the Pentagon called the Office of Special Plans, under which they oversee the creation or fabrication, rather, of false intelligence linking Saddam Hussein to Al Qaeda, and they essentially fabricate the reason for going to war.
01:21:40.000So, if you understand the neoconservative, Zionist, and Jewish roots of the decision makers who brought us to war in Iraq, you understand that the decision to bring us to war in Iraq was made long before they created the justification with weapons of mass destruction or.
01:22:04.000And you know this because for 30 or 35 years now, it was the Zionist foreign policy to unseat Saddam Hussein in Iraq and, in the words of the Oded Yunnan 1980s plan for Israel, disintegrate Middle Eastern countries into what they call a quilt of different tribes.
01:22:22.000They wanted to destroy all the nation states and make them all just tribes that could not threaten Israel.
01:22:27.000And so the war in Iraq had cost $6 trillion.
01:23:05.000But the difference is that the very people that worked in the Defense Department who sold the war in Iraq, who literally fabricated the intelligence, they created the office.
01:23:14.000Which created the intelligence to connect Al Qaeda.
01:23:48.000When I get to say anything, or it doesn't matter at this point, and he talked about how in the ninth as early as you'll notice how he gets to keep going, and I don't get to say anything.
01:23:57.000Well, I want him to finish his actual.
01:24:00.000That's because you've chosen his side here.
01:24:12.000The fact of the matter is, you have people you're drawing from whatever sources and trying to make some Zionist connection in that it's some sinister force that is all right in the United States.
01:24:22.000I mean, look what's happening with Iran now.
01:24:24.000You have BB asking the United States for support.
01:24:27.000This is coming from a tweet that Vincent had offered to me and saying, Are you telling me that I should send my children to fight for Israel?
01:24:41.000You're automatically drawing an argument that because Israel doesn't want a nuclear Iran and wants to be protected from this fanatical regime, that therefore they're driving the United States into a war.
01:25:45.000If I do a stopwatch right now with Arthur and I give you each a minute response, I guarantee you, Arthur, that you're going to interrupt within that minute response.