00:01:03.000Is that a thing we're going to be doing?
00:01:05.000That we're going to start and then go with all the main news events and then start the show?
00:01:11.000I think we should because we have a big fan of MMA.
00:01:14.000And I was watching this Ronda Razzi performance on WrestleMania and I wondered what is ARU thinking about Ronda Razzi, the MMA star in wrestling?
00:01:57.000But in terms of her MMA stuff, I mean, she is very cowardly, and her handling of her two losses was basically shameful.
00:02:04.000She could easily make millions more in MMA, but she's just not, she's chosen to not do that.
00:02:10.000Yeah, I think she's hit a wall in MMA that she could have surpassed because when you look at it, the division was very strong in striking when she had her losses.
00:02:19.000But if she was back, there could be a way for her to make her wrestling dominant again.
00:02:25.000I mean, she didn't even barely try to take down Amanda Nunez.
00:02:28.000She tried to strike with her because she has this Armenian striking coach, boxing coach, who told her and convinced her that she can strike with elite strikers.
00:02:37.000And she can't, but she can arm bar them.
00:02:41.000So, yeah, it's kind of a frustrating thing to see her leave.
00:05:00.000So today's debate I heard is about guns.
00:05:03.000And so I assume that everyone is familiar with the classical arguments for gun control and against.
00:05:10.000It seems undoubtable to me that the fact of having guns, the fact that there are guns that are so easily obtainable in America, does cause us death.
00:05:21.000And so I'd like to start the debate by asking simply our two guests do you recognize the factual causal role of guns and the fact that guns are legal and easily obtainable in the US as causing death?
00:05:48.000No, I don't think there is a causal role between the availability of firearms and death.
00:05:54.000I think actually, in many cases, and John Watt Jr., who's a statistician, he makes this case that actually, the more guns you have, the less crime there is because guns, in many cases, act as a deterrent.
00:06:24.000Well, how I see it with the states is I feel as if there's too many weapons out there to just put a stop on it now.
00:06:34.000And if you do and take arms away from citizens who are obtaining them legally, now the only people who will have them in the states is criminals, right?
00:06:46.000While I prefer no weapons, um, Like, since they've had them forever, you're going to have people who have like illegal firearms and all that stuff and who'll be using them to rob people and do all that stuff.
00:06:59.000So, I think it's too late, in my opinion.
00:07:03.000And, Andy, we have a super chat from Edwin Griffiths, five pounds says, Consider this a payment for simply not having Kevin Logan on the show.
00:07:11.000I told you those big corporate decisions we make, and they pay off in the end.
00:08:03.000The chat, your viewership, undoubtedly 90 something percent in favor of guns.
00:08:09.000And it's very strange being an advocate for something that I feel is so obvious and sensible and that the rest of the modern world has basically figured out.
00:08:18.000But if we're not going to agree on the reality that more guns equals more death, or at least can you acknowledge more gun death?
00:08:38.000If we're talking about an abstraction where we're talking about a standard position and we're able to get rid of all the guns, if there were no guns, obviously there'd be no gun crime.
00:08:49.000But I think that once we start to factor in lived reality, then I think any kind of gun control making it less easy for legal, law abiding citizens to purchase firearms, I think you could actually get more gun crime, specifically in the United States because of the sheer amount of guns that are in this country.
00:09:09.000Yeah, I think there's multiple different problems that you're addressing there.
00:09:14.000And I think a lot of these conversations get really confusing and people talk past each other and they just sort of, I don't know, it's not very clear as to where the disagreements are.
00:09:26.000I guess we have to take another step back.
00:09:37.000I mean, to say that more guns don't lead to more gun deaths is like saying, More peanut butter doesn't lead to more peanut butter consumption.
00:09:44.000It's just so obvious that if you're not going to grant that, what is the point of talking about anything else?
00:09:52.000Well, I mean, here's a good number for that.
00:09:55.000In Australia, after the 1996 National Firearms Agreement was passed, although the rate of gun deaths decreased, or it was decreasing, I think it was actually the rate of homicides.
00:10:09.000Although the rate of homicides decreased after that, it had been decreasing for 10 years.
00:10:14.000And the rate, At which it decreased, actually slowed down.
00:10:17.000In the UK, after they banned guns, the murder rate actually increased.
00:10:22.000In the UK, they had gun control in 97.
00:10:24.000The murder rate increased from 11.5 to 18 in 2003.
00:12:18.000If you're against murder, you would say that you want less guns because there's a causal relationship.
00:12:23.000And I just told you that in a cherry pick, I picked.
00:12:26.000The two best examples that are used most frequently, as you've lived, England and Australia, were in the UK, the homicide went up for seven years.
00:13:53.000We don't even agree that you don't think there is a problem in the sense that you think more guns will stop the number of deaths, you think the deaths will go down.
00:14:02.000If you add guns, I think, yeah, I think there'll be less crime if we have more guns.
00:15:04.000And I denied my old past, but I still have this image of Michael Moore looking at statistics and Canada, for example, which doesn't have AR 15s.
00:15:14.000And in fact, sadly, I had to get rid of my AR 15s when I moved back to Canada.
00:15:20.000And it still hurts just thinking about getting rid of it.
00:15:24.000But there are 10 times less gun murders in Canada.
00:15:28.000What is your explanation for this, Nick?
00:15:32.000Well, if you look at America, if you look at gun crime in America, What we have is a demographics problem, not a gun problem.
00:15:39.000You look at who's committing the gun crimes, and by and large, the profile of a person that commits a gun crime in America is a minority in a city who obtained his weapon illegally.
00:15:49.000I mean, that's just, these are the facts.
00:16:05.000If you look at also, if you look at states, for example, like Vermont, you look at states like Idaho, states like New Hampshire, Maine, states that have the same demographics as a place like Canada, the murder rates are between one and two in all these states.
00:16:18.000And in all these states, you have high gun ownership, you have constitutional.
00:16:35.000And the reason being is because it's a demographics problem.
00:16:37.000Even if you look at a state like Louisiana, for example, or Illinois, you look at where the crime, the murders, and the gun crime is concentrated, it's in New Orleans and Louisiana.
00:17:50.000I mean, look at all these white shooters going into schools and movie theaters and whatnot.
00:17:55.000I mean, even though whites commit disproportionately less, you know, they should be by percentage committing more, they still do the majority of it.
00:20:11.000So, me talking about a policy of saying handguns and shotguns, that was me trying to, I don't know, find a middle ground, find a starting point.
00:20:20.000Because if people keep coming back with, I need guns to defend my home, and I say, okay, well, why would you need an assault rifle to defend your home?
00:20:29.000I say, if you can't defend your home with a handgun and a shotgun, you better, you know, you need to practice how to shoot a little bit better.
00:20:36.000Because I'm trying to get a little bit of sanity into this.
00:20:42.000What's astonishing to me is that you don't view the problem, I mean, you don't see it as a problem, whereas the rest of the world is laughing at us.
00:20:50.000And we have tens of thousands of dead bodies stacking up, and you're like, yeah.
00:20:54.000I mean, at least you recognize that as a problem, right?
00:20:59.000It's a problem that you do have gun deaths.
00:21:01.000It's a negative externality of having guns, yes.
00:21:05.000Let me try to just pivot a little bit right now because this is very typical.
00:21:11.000Like, I'm hearing all the same pro gun shit, and it's just like both sides, it's been debunked a million times.
00:21:17.000I don't really feel the need to go through all this again, but I actually have a question for you guys because I have not been paying attention to the news.
00:22:32.000Can you not recognize that they are doing it better?
00:22:35.000No, no, it's a different, it's totally a different situation in all these countries because in America, unlike any of the examples you gave, has a gun culture.
00:22:44.000We have more guns per capita by far than any other country, but that's not something that's legislated away.
00:22:49.000Do you know how many guns there are in the United States?
00:22:52.000Wait a minute, you just jumped to the second part.
00:22:54.000I'm not saying you can legislate it away.
00:23:22.000If the, for example, in Germany, if the percentage of Muslims in the country goes from, what is it, 7% up to 20%, would you want to live in a country where you're able to defend your property and your life and your family?
00:23:34.000Or would you want to be able to defend against?
00:23:38.000Should we have it like, have they really solved the problem if in 100 years they're going to have a civil war on their doorstep?
00:23:44.000Well, I mean, first of all, it's more like 4% to 5% Muslims there, and Germany is doing an amazing job.
00:23:49.000I would love for Germany's policy on guns to be applied to America.
00:23:54.000And I would much rather have gangs of people with machetes, by the way, we have those down here in Australia, in Melbourne, than gangs of people with weapons, like guns.
00:25:16.000And that is superior to having just open, you know, bloodbaths and carnage.
00:25:24.000Okay, but at the end of the day, what you're talking about is you want to make it so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves.
00:25:30.000You want to make it more difficult for, yeah, because what you're talking about, when you're talking about gun control and you're talking about this incremental, making things better, incremental reform, is you want to put up obstacles and barriers, which whether, you know, I've heard you in the past say you want to raise the age limit to 25.
00:25:46.000And, you know, these are various examples of legislation.
00:25:50.000What you want to do is make it so that law abiding people under the age of 25 or law abiding people, whatever it is, They have to be subject to a more difficult process to obtain a firearm.
00:25:59.000But in a country where 90% of the gun crimes are committed by people who obtained their weapons illegally, only 10% obtained their weapons legally, you couldn't be talking about anything but putting up barriers for law abiding people to acquire firearms and defending themselves.
00:26:16.000The people who are committing crimes, by and large, almost all of them are committing them without regulation.
00:26:22.000They're not subject to the regulations because they obtain them illegally.
00:26:26.000There's 400 million possibly in circulation.
00:26:28.000There's no way you could get a handle on that.
00:26:31.000Okay, so now you're saying the problem in America, you're jumping back and forth.
00:26:33.000The problem in America is difficult because there's a bunch of guns, yes, and criminals don't obey the law, yes.
00:26:39.000I don't want criminals to have easy access to guns either.
00:27:11.000Because, well, first of all, you're talking about something that's very general.
00:27:14.000But to answer your question, because I can't defend myself, because if there's a threat, and let me tell you something, in a place where there's a lot of gun ownership, I live in a place where there's a lot of gun ownership.
00:27:25.000People in my neighborhood own guns, and there's not a lot of crime.
00:27:28.000And that's principally because of demographics.
00:27:30.000Regardless of that fact, I can protect myself and my family where I live.
00:28:12.000You keep jumping, and speaking of jumping back and forth, you jump into these weird.
00:28:17.000I'm trying to get specific in terms of causal relationships and why we have firearms.
00:28:21.000And you want to get into this abstract position of, well, quality of life here is better, it's safer here, and all the rest, but without looking at all the different factors.
00:28:30.000No, but we're not talking about other factors.
00:28:32.000We're talking about strictly the gun aspect of it.
00:29:20.000You could, You could call people, you could run away, you could contain the guy.
00:29:24.000The point is, what you might experience in Chicago yeah, if you're in the wrong part of Chicago, you got issues and you got problems.
00:29:30.000So that is different, but you still will not concede that if nobody had guns, if far less people had guns, it would be better for all of us.
00:29:39.000Not just better for you, better for all of us.
00:29:41.000We're not talking realistically, though.
00:29:43.000If we're talking about a place with no guns, as I said from the beginning, this is simply not a possibility.
00:29:53.000That person who's packing, wait, wait, but that person who's packing, you can't, there's no, there is no way, I'm sorry, but there is simply no way that you could even attempt or begin to control the sheer amount of firearms that are in the country.
00:30:07.000There's between 265 to 400 million firearms in the country.
00:30:14.000And, well, and the point being that if somebody walks into a place in Las Vegas and they're packing, that's going to happen no matter what incremental gun reforms you take.
00:30:22.000And the question is, how do you mitigate the amount of Gun related deaths in a country you can't control the amount of guns, where criminals have them and they walk freely with them.
00:30:30.000You make it so that in that situation, a person can defend themselves.
00:30:35.000You won't be able to prevent, in many cases, not even in the majority, in probably most cases, you won't be able to prevent somebody from packing and putting you in a position like that.
00:30:43.000What you can do is empower law abiding people to be able to defend themselves.
00:33:17.000I think we live in a world where people have bad intentions.
00:33:20.000And I think that the gun, like nuclear weapons in many cases, can be better used as a deterrent more than anything or use a means to defend a person.
00:33:29.000So you're still going to have, in a country with no guns, you're still going to have beatings, you're still going to have rape, you're still going to have home invasion, burglary, theft.
00:33:37.000But in a country where everyone has a gun, you're able to defend against that.
00:33:41.000Why don't we use other devices to defend and not use lethal force?
00:33:45.000How about stun guns and pepper spray and all sorts of other goodies?
00:34:06.000The UK, for example, it's interesting you brought up the UK and how they do things.
00:34:10.000When I talked about the murder rate that went up after the gun ban, or rather, gun control went into effect in 97, the only way that they were able to bring their murder rate down, by the way, that didn't just happen on its own.
00:34:22.000They had to increase the amount of police in the country by 18%, which is a lot of police.
00:34:27.000And most police will tell you, even in America, most police will tell you that the best way to defend against crime is to have a gun.
00:34:34.000And they will tell you that when these kinds of any crime happens, a home invasion, a rape, a murder, police get there after the fact.
00:34:41.000Police are reactive, they're not proactive.
00:36:01.000If you're saying the homicide rate in the UK is lower than the United States, you're comparing the UK and the United States, and you're saying the reason, the causality, why these two are different.
00:36:14.000However, if you compare the UK with other states in the United States where they have guns and they can carry them without a permit, and you find that the murder rate is the same, then you find that the variable here, causality, the reason why the homicide rate is lower in one country and higher than another, if you control for guns, you'll find the reason is demographics.
00:36:35.000We have 40 times the amount of gangs as other countries in the developed world.
00:36:43.000Do you think they'll go away if you ban guns?
00:36:47.000Well, first of all, it's disingenuous for you to argue that, oh, upstate Maine, and it doesn't have a gang culture, and you're going to compare that to all of England with all of its ghettos, all of the crime ridden areas, its congestion.
00:36:58.000There are other cultural factors at play there.
00:37:00.000It's not just a fair comparison to make there.
00:37:03.000Okay, so you're saying it's not a fair comparison then?
00:37:05.000Well, then it's not a fair comparison to compare it to the United States where there are structural differences in the composition of the population.
00:37:12.000No, we're talking about the presence of guns.
00:37:15.000Directly affecting gun deaths and murder rates.
00:37:18.000Where there are more guns, there's more murder and more gun deaths.
00:37:22.000And by the way, we could talk about more suicide.
00:37:25.000Dude, I mean, our suicide rate is insanely high and would be far less if people didn't have easy access to guns.
00:37:59.000People who commit suicide, and I've seen you say this in your video people who are going to commit suicide with a gun won't commit suicide with any other means.
00:38:07.000And I laughed out loud, you know, as if guns cause suicide.
00:38:11.000You know, I was having a great day, but then I saw a gun and I got some urges.
00:39:07.000Not enough, I'd be willing to say that guns are the problem.
00:39:10.000I think what you see is a suicide problem, not a gun problem.
00:39:13.000Obviously, suicide is a problem, but the method people use to do it, if you make it easy and instantaneous and fatal, you're sure it's going to be a fatal thing, then these numbers are going to rise.
00:40:41.000They have very similar homicide rates.
00:40:43.000And that's, you separate out the black murder rate, and it's the same as what it is in West Africa.
00:40:47.000You separate out the white murder rate, and it's the same as what it is in Western Europe.
00:40:51.000And that just goes to show that it has nothing to do with guns.
00:40:54.000It has to do with the people wielding them.
00:40:55.000But if you want to talk about guns, I'm pro gun, not just anti gun, because a gun is a means to defend yourself, to defend your property, to defend your life, to defend yourself against the government.
00:41:07.000I know you think that's a joke or a meme, but that's something we take very seriously.
00:42:18.000Give no one a gun, or maybe give one person who we trust and who is trained and who we vote upon to have control of the gun.
00:42:26.000Yeah, well, firstly, I think this is a silly and a useless abstraction because I'll entertain it in a moment.
00:42:34.000I'll entertain it, but I'll just before you entertain it, I want to point out this kind of hypothetical takes for granted that you have some sort of socialist control that you decide for everyone.
00:42:45.000This is not America and it's not the state of freedom right now in most democratic countries.
00:42:49.000Lucky for me, I didn't say it was America.
00:42:51.000And I'm not talking about political forms here.
00:42:54.000I'm just saying, what do you think the best decision would be with these guns?
00:44:57.000Raven, I was answering the wrong question.
00:45:00.000But the point I meant to draw by that is you, from this weird. Enlightened, secular, liberal position are able to ascribe a moral value to human nature, the propensity to defend oneself.
00:46:05.000I don't know enough about you to say what your innermost desires are.
00:46:08.000But let's say I had something you wanted very badly.
00:46:10.000Would you be more or less likely to use force to overpower me to take it if you had a gun and I didn't, or if we both had guns, if there was a chance that I could defend myself?
00:46:22.000I mean, let's say you've already arrived at the conclusion that you're going to take it.
00:46:26.000Would you be more or less likely if I had a gun to take it?
00:47:16.000Well, in Heller versus D.C., they actually laid out a constitutional case that there are reasonable limits that can be put on the Second Amendment.
00:47:23.000The Second Amendment is not an absolute.
00:47:25.000We don't believe in guns in themselves, we believe in guns towards a specific end.
00:47:31.000Okay, so I think I'm happy to move on to discussing gun control and actual real world practical things.
00:47:38.000I want to move there, but first I have a challenge on AIU on the philosophical question, and then we can move on to the most pragmatic questions.
00:47:46.000But, Andy, do we have a couple super chats to read before we get there?
00:47:50.000Sure, and I want to challenge Nick on something actually that I just thought.
00:49:11.000Access to it because they don't care about laws in the first place.
00:49:15.000And now, Senarchy, 10 pounds, says when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
00:49:23.000So, on the philosophical question, because I think that AIU has a good way to approach this problem, dividing the pragmatic questions from the fundamental philosophical problem.
00:49:34.000I think Nick has considered a little more than I would personally on the philosophical aspect and on if I could control everything with a magic.
00:49:43.000Would I want people with guns or would I want people with no guns?
00:49:47.000I personally would want people with guns.
00:49:49.000I'm not saying that I would arm my enemies, that I wouldn't arm other people, but I would certainly have a magic wand into reality, my liberty to own a gun.
00:49:59.000And there's something very weird with the argument of depriving people of their liberty to self defend with the weapons that they find fit for that purpose.
00:50:10.000It's that you're essentially counting the dead bodies.
00:50:13.000And you're saying because of these dead bodies, because of a result, I'm going to invade on the liberties of everyone, even those who haven't committed these crimes.
00:50:22.000That's not the way we usually handle the limitations of liberty.
00:50:28.000We usually limit people's liberty because they have done something wrong.
00:50:32.000Isn't there a problem with your approach there, Ayu, where you are punishing the wrong people?
00:50:54.000If I deprive them now when there's millions of guns around, then yes, that can be problematic.
00:50:59.000And so de escalating from us all being armed is going to take a lot of time, multiple generations, and it's either going to get better or worse.
00:51:08.000I'm not looking for a magic solution here.
00:51:10.000I'm looking for something, some change, action on any level.
00:51:15.000Like, for example, take a place like South Africa.
00:51:58.000South Africa is a failed state and they do not provide safety to the citizens.
00:52:03.000In fact, the president and the government are coming after the white citizens, at least, and the murder rates are insane.
00:52:09.000And it's just every man for himself down there.
00:52:11.000So that's, I don't want to be like South Africa, but I recognize the situation there and I have family there and I would recommend they get guns.
00:52:18.000And they, you know, people live in secured areas and have private guards anyway.
00:52:37.000Nick, so you brought up the point that it's too late for America, right?
00:52:42.000Because how to control all the guns and everything.
00:52:45.000But then when AIU asked you if you'd prefer that everyone has a gun or only a few people have one, you'd say you said that you wanted everyone to have one.
00:52:59.000But then if you have that thought, then.
00:53:03.000It doesn't matter about the it's too late.
00:53:08.000Well, I think it's a well, here, I think that everyone should have a gun, even in the abstract.
00:53:13.000But I think that anybody who is talking about America, I think any kind of gun control, you know, example, any kind of idea about limiting the amount of firearms, I think is ridiculous on its face for those pragmatic reasons.
00:53:26.000So that's, I think, why AIU tried to divide the abstract versus the practical because he concedes that in the practical, he himself said that it'll take many, many, many generations.
00:53:36.000For us to even begin to disarm the United States.
00:53:39.000And I'm saying that proposition, before you even consider it in the abstract, pragmatically, at least in the present day, it's ridiculous.
00:53:46.000But I would, I'm not even against guns.
00:53:47.000So I don't say too late, like, oh no, we missed our chance to be disarmed eunuchs, subjects of the state, where the police, you know, coddle us from cradle to grave.
00:54:08.000Do you think, I mean, I already know the answer, but do you think owning a gun is required in case it becomes necessary to fight against the government one day?
00:54:39.000That in a hundred years or in 500 years, there's two million people on the island, and the descendants of the guy who had the right to own guns is the state and he's violating the rights of individuals on the island.
00:55:51.000Because you seem to define the right to own weapons as the status quo of a given country.
00:55:56.000And when I was trying to engage with you on the philosophical abstract question, you said, well, it all depends on the country you're in, because right now Americans have guns and they own guns, therefore it's a right right now.
00:56:08.000To me, rights, they don't depend on the status quo.
00:56:11.000Rights are a fundamental idea that's independent of the current state of countries.
00:56:16.000And when the state violates my rights, I'm not talking about rights that exist.
00:56:21.000Because they were written on a piece of paper two days ago.
00:56:24.000I'm talking about the fact that me, as a biological being on this planet, there is no one who can enter my home and tell me what to do and control my actions.
00:57:17.000And it proceeds from the idea of self ownership.
00:57:21.000The Second Amendment, the right to own firearms, is not arbitrary, it proceeds from a series of rights that.
00:57:26.000If you understand that you own yourself, if you understand that you, and this could either be a religious perspective, for me, it's a religious perspective.
00:57:33.000For you, I guess you'd have to find some convoluted technocratic way to justify it.
00:57:38.000But if you understand that you own yourself and you understand that you own the fruits of your labor, you own your life, you own your labor, you own your liberty, then you understand that you must necessarily, to own it, be able to protect it, be able to defend it against individuals, against the state, against organizations.
00:57:57.000And that's why we have, it's not a mere, I have firearms.
00:59:26.000At educating children, at family courts, at making DVPs against men who do not commit crimes and finding them systematically guilty in the absence of evidence.
01:00:23.000The most effective way to set up a society.
01:00:25.000Now, which brings me to the question if we can develop a stun gun or some sort of taser that actually works and is proven to be an efficient way to disable an attacker, would you be willing to swap that out with your guns?
01:03:11.000And you can make fun of that, but that's why you live in a place like Australia, where you're going to get maybe your family is going to come under attack by Muslim rape gangs.
01:04:37.000But here's what should happen and what will happen he's going to get a sentence handed down.
01:04:44.000And there's been a huge backlash, and Scotland is going to be shamed for this.
01:04:47.000And maybe one day we'll have a vote, and this is democracy, and we'll change the laws and hopefully get a free speech bill or something passed.
01:04:54.000The UK, and we'll do it civilized in a peaceful manner, as opposed to these little dorks pulling out their guns and going, Fuck these coppers, we're going out.
01:05:26.000I think the difference here, and this underlies the difference in this is why you voted for Hillary Clinton, this is why you are the way that you are, which is kind of this insufferable, like atheist liberal, is because you reject human nature.
01:05:40.000You think that for anybody to be insecure about their safety, for them to want to secure the existence of their people and a future for their children, they're afraid.
01:05:50.000And being afraid, being uncertain about external threats should be shamed, should be laughed at.
01:05:58.000Don't you know the state is there to protect you?
01:06:00.000At a certain point, I don't want the government to redress my sovereign rights with a vote.
01:06:05.000You know, well, maybe in 10 years, the government will allow a vote and I'll be allowed to speak again.
01:06:10.000We believe that some things are intrinsic to who we are.
01:06:14.000And JF believes that there's some natural rights doctrine.
01:06:17.000I believe it's God given rights that have to be defended, that have to be secured through force, through the long arm of a rifle.
01:07:11.000They had to be established through force.
01:07:13.000And even, even the genesis of the Second Amendment is in the Glorious Revolution, where James II in the UK tried to disarm the Protestants, those frats.
01:07:55.000You can think of an hypothetical in which it would exist.
01:07:58.000But the reality is that the cost for a government to invade on individual liberties is rooted in the deterrent effect of many people being able to resist those acts of violence.
01:08:55.000Do you want to know why they did that, though?
01:08:57.000If you stop giggling and think for a second, the reason that they had to do that, the reason, because they did not have the means to do it.
01:13:45.000And also, well, but you understand that these things are not absolute.
01:13:49.000You understand that at a certain point, You know, this is why we have age of consent rules because we understand that when people are still developing, they can't properly consent.
01:13:57.000In the same way, when people are still developing, they can't properly exercise their rights.
01:14:02.000We don't live in an individualist society, we live in a family society.
01:17:23.000I think he's still reeling from the ass kicking that I delivered him.
01:17:27.000Hey, you know, Halsey, Halsey, maybe you could have me on your show.
01:17:31.000I'll cut my hand and you'll get a hundred times the audience you usually do because I know, you know, but anywho, enough time for the fat boomer.
01:17:46.000Says, Godless idiot with the endless straw man argument.
01:17:50.000Blunderbuss, $20 Canadian, says, A.I.U., why mock creationist contradiction when modern scientists flip flop somewhere between A, skin is only human organ to divergently evolve, and B, the brain is only human organ which has not divergently evolved?
01:18:09.000The question seems too complex for me.
01:18:12.000I don't know what he meant exactly there.
01:18:18.000And we have, yeah, this song I read out.
01:18:20.000I have to say, this is really entertaining.
01:21:29.000Because the homicides, I'll tell you why.
01:21:31.000Because the homicides, they're not happening.
01:21:33.000You have this weird thing where the United States is like it's tomato soup, it's just uniform.
01:21:38.000But actually, where the homicides are happening, it's not in Wyoming, it's not in Montana, it's not in most of Colorado.
01:21:45.000It's happening in In cities, in neighborhoods where you have lots of non whites.
01:21:49.000And when you separate it out, it's not a gun problem, it's a demographic problem.
01:21:53.000Idaho, where it's mostly white, where it's in many ways a lot like Denmark and otherwise, it has the same homicide right, even though they have many, many guns and they have permitless constitutional carry.
01:22:04.000And you keep saying, oh, but they're part of the country too.
01:22:29.000Okay, so I grant you that it's going to be blacks in Chicago killing more than whites in Chicago.
01:22:34.000But I'm saying if those blacks had less guns, there'd be less death.
01:22:38.000Yeah, but they purchased them illegally.
01:22:39.000Number one, they purchased them illegally.
01:22:41.000Number two, you're punishing people who don't commit crimes, who are perfectly capable, where they're, you know, Andy says it's a scandal when someone's shot in Canada.
01:22:52.000It's never happened in my neighborhood.
01:22:54.000I live about, well, I'm not going to say, but I live near Chicago.
01:22:57.000And I don't think I remember a single shot ever being fired anywhere near where I live.
01:23:03.000And that's because even though people own guns, the demographics are great.
01:23:07.000And so the point being that you're going to say, I can't properly defend myself.
01:23:11.000People who've never committed crimes can't defend our life and our property from home invasion or whatever else because certain groups of people can't handle it.
01:23:21.000So I'm going to spare everyone the base.
01:23:23.000I'm in favor of all the gun control arguments, limiting the type of gun, so not have military grade weaponry, better vetting, gun show loophole, all that shit.
01:24:43.000Sure, and that's a failure of, and so was the latest gentleman, Mr. Nicholas Cruz, was known to the FBI.
01:24:52.000You're not going to take away the Second Amendment because the FBI fails to incarcerate a handful of people, are you?
01:24:58.000Does that sound like a way to govern our society?
01:25:00.000No, it's a failure that you will not yield on that issue.
01:25:05.000If people on the list couldn't get guns, these people wouldn't have the guns, or at the bare minimum, would have a way harder time getting guns.
01:25:19.000If we had an extremely sophisticated system with checks and balances, my problem with watch lists, people on watch lists not being able to obtain a firearm, is anybody can be put on a watch list.
01:25:32.000Anybody could be put on a no fly zone or a watch list for a variety of reasons.
01:25:48.000But again, the point being is, I would be in favor if you had the FBI or the CIA or whoever could properly demonstrate to a court that somebody is going to commit a mass casualty event.
01:26:04.000In the case of Omar Mateen, I believe he had been in Saudi Arabia before, right?
01:26:09.000And his father was a refugee from Afghanistan.
01:26:11.000I mean, this guy, there was a case you could demonstrate to a court or something, a commission.
01:26:16.000That here's somebody who is likely to commit an attack.
01:26:19.000If they, for example, Nicholas Cruz, who said, I'm going to be a mass shooter.
01:26:22.000If you type up something like that and the FBI or somebody could demonstrate to a court, this person needs to have their rights abridged temporarily, I would say that's a concession I could make.
01:26:33.000But my problem with the current situation is that anybody could be put on a list for any number of reasons.
01:26:39.000And then we're right back where we started with depriving people of their rights for arbitrary reasons, which I'm against.
01:28:25.000Well, in 2018, they're planning on voting out all the politicians that get money from the NRA.
01:28:31.000Even though Michael Bloomberg is more money, vastly more money to candidates who are anti gun than the NRA gives to pro gun candidates.
01:28:39.000They're going to have this massive push.
01:28:41.000And then, what's the first thing that they're, if the Democrats control the House after they do impeachment, the first thing they're going to do after they try to impeach the glorious God Emperor of mankind from being the president, the second thing they're going to do is they're going to try and pass gun control.
01:28:58.000Well, first of all, knowing the Democrats, even if they do take more power in the House and whatnot, it's going to be very difficult for them to, they don't even have the balls to even present an argument for gun control.
01:29:47.000So let me ask you when the shooting happened in Vegas and the guy was murdering all these people with these ridiculously high powered weapons and bump stock and all that.
01:30:33.000But nevertheless, a cop engaged with that shooter before the shooting even began.
01:30:38.000If you recall the details of that case, one of your favorites, the police, the person tapped with protecting you, he showed up and engaged with.
01:30:46.000Stephen Paddock on the scene, and then he went back to get reinforcements, and that took a long time for it to happen.
01:30:51.000But in a world where people had guns, I don't know, what if somebody in the next hotel room had a gun?
01:30:57.000Somebody in the hotel room next to him had a gun.
01:31:24.000No, not that he's not Stephen Paddock, but that something was awry.
01:31:27.000With that shooting, in the sense that you look at any of the details, first they said they recovered no hard drive from his computer in the room.
01:31:35.000He set up two cameras inside the hotel room, outside the hotel room.
01:31:39.000Apparently, neither of them were filming during the shooting.
01:31:42.000I mean, there were so many weird things going on.
01:31:44.000We still haven't established a motive with him.
01:31:46.000He worked three jobs for the federal government for the post office, he was an auditor for the defense contractors.
01:33:05.000No, I mean, Stephen Paddock, you look at any of the examples here, or rather, you look at every piece of evidence from this case, and it just doesn't sit right with me.
01:34:28.000It's a separate point to try to figure out who's mentally ill and give them guns or not based on that.
01:34:33.000I'm talking about just the fact, the stark fact that we know there are crazy people who will, they're just guaranteed to kill people tomorrow and the next day and into the foreseeable future.
01:34:43.000But what I would like, I prefer, Sam Harris did a podcast on this, and I agreed with what he said, which is I want the ability to get a gun to be about as difficult as the ability to become a pilot.
01:34:54.000Like, if we're going to have people with guns, I want it to be done responsibly.
01:35:00.000I don't want to just hand out to just young dudes, you know, and just no background check or very limited, just make it super easy.
01:35:07.000You know, the system they have in Germany is like this you have to wait a year, you have to be vetted and go through a whole series of things.
01:35:15.000And it just seems to make more sense and it leads to less death, as we see when we look at the stats.
01:35:22.000Yeah, it's, well, this is just kind of ridiculous.
01:35:24.000This is just a silly, like, dumb argument because, well, the argument that, Well, I'll tell you.
01:35:47.000If we're going to limit the rights of everybody so that the 3% of people who commit crimes with legally obtained firearms, I think you're a dumb person.
01:35:55.00090%, it's either 90%, depending on who you ask, it's 90 or 97% of Firearm related crimes are committed with firearms that were obtained illegally.
01:36:04.000The people in the south side of Chicago, number one, they're not using AR 15s.
01:37:23.000So I recognize this situation today is fucked and it's going to be very difficult to put a dent in it, even though we have good intentions.
01:37:31.000I'm talking about the next generation.
01:37:35.000Yeah, well, I would say first, first of all, again, you have 400 million guns in the country.
01:37:39.000We're going to wait for 400 million guns to expire.
01:38:09.000So, you can, and you say Australia, so what?
01:38:11.000You say that Australia, and everybody says, this is the experts, Australia has the most comprehensive gun control regime in the world.
01:38:19.000And despite this, they went in, they did a buyback, they destroyed 650,000 guns, and it only took them, it took them 18 years for them to recover to the same position they were before, and very quickly, and it's happening very rapidly now.
01:38:32.000So, the point is, you know, we could put in place gun control, and even if something like that were feasible, Within two, you're talking about the long term future 400 million guns expiring.
01:38:42.000Within two decades, they brought back the same amount of guns.
01:39:07.000I love how we go from, well, we'll wait for the guns to pass their expiration date, and then we'll, but even though they come back anyway, and I acknowledge that per capita there was still less, but the rate of, you know, they're coming in like crazy.
01:39:21.000They're coming in, you know, there's still, in gross terms, lots of firearms coming into the country.
01:39:27.000But to go back to Australia, then you flip flop and you go, oh, well, now we'll talk about the suicide rate because that didn't work out so well.
01:40:09.000But if you look at the evidence in Australia, the kind of gun regime you're proposing, there is no statistical, and I know this is difficult because you're trying to make all these, well, we just know.
01:40:49.000I'll bring my little grain of salt, and I don't know that Nick will follow me on that.
01:40:52.000But personally, suicide is not a problem for me as a libertarian.
01:40:57.000These are people choosing to die, as far as I'm concerned.
01:41:02.000What about people who are just super depressed and go, like, and they'll, like, swallow a bunch of pills but survive but be sick as opposed to them just picking up a gun and shooting themselves in the head and then it's just done?
01:41:22.000You can kill yourself quickly in other ways, but guns, you know, are pretty simple.
01:41:27.000Hey, Nick, I'm seeing here a stat says after the buyback, Suicides by gum dropped 74% from 1990 to 1995?
01:41:36.000Yeah, again, tell me the rate at which they were decreasing before, because I have it from the Crime Prevention Research Center, which has a rate at which they were going down.
01:41:46.000Are you aware that people use guns to kill themselves?
01:43:56.000And here it is Would you be willing to give up your guns?
01:43:59.000It's a hypothetical, or what JF calls an hypothetical.
01:44:02.000Would you be willing to give up your guns if I were to tell you that 10 people would not kill themselves with a gun?
01:44:10.000See, that's different because then my decision would be rather these people dying is dependent on me having a firearm and not having a gun.
01:44:18.000And this is what I'm suggesting to you.
01:44:19.000Which is not the relationship between others.
01:44:21.000Nick, I'm suggesting to you that our policy on guns is enabling and allowing.
01:44:28.000So I'm asking you, morally speaking, would you be willing to give up your guns if you know it would save the life of 10 people who would have killed themselves if they had had easy access to a gun the same way you do?
01:44:37.000So you're saying that if I give up my firearm, or rather if I don't give up my firearms, you press a red button and people are killed?
01:45:22.000Well, should we also get rid of free speech because of dangerous things?
01:45:28.000Why are we talking about the ridicule of this hypothetical AIU?
01:45:34.000I mean, you're essentially telling me that these people would be in front of me and they would be threatening their own life and they would say, JF, if you don't give up your liberty, we're going to kill ourselves.
01:47:43.000But we, it's not the Canadian military, it's the U.S. military, specifically us, this one group, and we have given them the power to do this because we think it's the detention of us.
01:50:05.000But there's something fascinating that just happened we have a Hillary Clinton voter trying to convince two ethno nationalists of the importance of the we and the us.
01:50:48.000So the vetting is not going to be like, well, this guy seems to be responsible and he's done all the training, but he's black, so let's not give him a gun.
01:51:44.000I just say that in my ethno nationalist state, my ideal state, there wouldn't be violations of rights for minorities.
01:51:52.000That's very different from saying I want the most minorities possible.
01:51:56.000I still want a country made up of white people with a certain culture, but if there are other people due to facts of history that unfold that way, I wouldn't violate their rights.
01:52:06.000Hey, JF, do you get death threats from people who are against your white ethnostate?
01:52:50.000Personally, well, accidental with any accident with any material is the cost of the liberty of using that material, just like car accident, just like plane accident.
01:53:37.000Speaking of butchered quote, I meant neither, obviously.
01:53:40.000Lastly, I'd like to make it clear to AIU that his outlook that demographics don't matter because they will get guns logically can only lead to disarming blacks and Hispanics.
01:53:59.000He's saying if you want to fix the gun deaths to disarm blacks and Hispanics, not gun control, because the demographic who are killing the most people would be blacks and Hispanics.
01:56:40.000Because the guy coming to rob you, you're going to be in an escalated conflict with him and it's going to end in a fatality andor gun accident andor suicide.
01:56:50.000I will say on the issue of escalation, the gun does provide, in certain circumstances, a false sense of security.
01:57:00.000That I will give you, where odds are you don't want to engage with a, you know, if there's a home invasion, the best thing that you can do is wait and hope that the person leaves.
01:57:11.000Because if you do engage, then there is, like you said, there's a risk that you could get injured.
01:57:15.000But the point being is that we should have a right to defend ourselves if it does go south, if it does get ugly.
01:57:24.000But I am saying that I should have a right to defend myself.
01:57:27.000But see, what you just described in that home invasion plays out all across society.
01:57:31.000So when a cop pulls a guy over in a car, an American cop, he's got to be concerned that this dude has a gun.
01:57:37.000And I've seen countless times where you'll have a guy resist arrest and he goes for the cop's gun or something.
01:57:43.000Well, now it's just a fight to the death.
01:57:46.000Whereas in other countries, say England, if they don't have a gun, the cops don't have a gun, or where the populace doesn't have guns, it very rarely becomes a lethal encounter.
01:57:56.000Yeah, but that is how it is in this country, unfortunately.
01:58:42.000They're machines built to take human life, and they do it very effectively.
01:58:45.000I mean, you're improperly using that if you're using it offensively to coerce in the same way that, you know, many things are built that way.
01:59:05.000I'm trying to get both ways, AIU, because on the one end, all of your arguments, Relies on the effect, the final effect, and not the intention so much.
01:59:14.000The fact that people have accidents and they kill themselves, for example, is an effect argument.
01:59:42.000We would get lots of super chats on the arm of the book.
01:59:48.000I just think you're inserting separate problems.
01:59:51.000We're talking about problem A. Here comes problem B, C, and D. We're talking about standards.
01:59:54.000We're talking about standards for how we make this.
01:59:57.000If it meets your standard that something ought to be banned because it has nothing to do with cars in themselves or guns in themselves, it's got to do with you think that something is causing bad things.
02:00:10.000People are being killed as a result of the misuse of a commodity, which is guns.
02:00:15.000Well, but you don't, or whatever, you know, whatever it is, whatever you want to classify a gun as an object, but you don't want to ban an instrument.
02:00:23.000You don't want an instrument of death.
02:01:20.000Believe that many, or at least that some gun deaths are good.
02:01:26.000That essentially getting rid of people who are criminals who invade your home or people who find themselves in a situation where they violate your rights.
02:01:34.000Do you think that guns also have a positive aspect to bring to society?
02:01:40.000In the hands of a cop, yeah, I'm in favor of that.
02:01:42.000In the current situation, you can present a situation where a guy uses a gun in a positive way.
02:01:47.000You know, you have a mass shooter or whatnot.
02:01:51.000The benefit of that is overwhelmingly exceeded by the downside of it, which is we have this mass death happening all around us.
02:01:59.000So, I don't want to have an arms race in this country.
02:04:22.000Hey, how to have it breaks in through this window, and I have to run into the kitchen.
02:04:27.000No, I have a baseball bat, an aluminum baseball bat, right beside my desk, prepared to pop anyone's head, or an animal, a raccoon crawls inside or some shit.
02:05:56.000You could have a background check, but I don't know if people should be blanket.
02:05:59.000Anybody who's been convicted of a violent crime.
02:06:02.000One of the chief problems with background checks is that states don't submit their criminal records to the background check system.
02:06:09.000This is something the NRA talks about a lot, which is the background check system would be very robust if not for the fact that state governments don't send all of their criminal records.
02:07:26.000If I were in a country where nobody has a gun, you know, there's still people can still initiate violence against somebody if they even if they don't have a gun.
02:07:37.000I don't think, and even if I'm okay, fine.
02:07:40.000Yes, life is not going to be perfect, but that violence is better than gun violence.
02:07:45.000So, what if like 10 people who are all like jacked animals they all come after me and I'm like, oh, I put them up, nigga.
02:08:08.000Are you in favor that they have metal detectors and they check everybody when they come in and it's a no gun area?
02:08:15.000I think the TSA and that whole system is like a very high price to pay for the fact that we're not allowed to be racist in the sense that I see them pulling aside like grandma, you know, 90 year old white woman.
02:08:41.000I mean, I'm trying to figure out how far back I've got to go before.
02:08:44.000But then, you know, we should have an air marshal on the plane with a gun because the TSA, and there's another example where the TSA was not able, if you look at any of the tests that they do, they run all kinds of, you know, training exercises and tests.
02:08:58.000They find that the TSA is actually very ineffective at finding weapons or explosives.
02:09:03.000Maybe it doesn't hurt to have somebody with a gun.
02:09:11.000You're fine that as long as somebody steps over this line and we call them the state, they can have the military, scary instruments of death.
02:09:20.000But everybody else, well, you're on your own kind of thing.
02:09:25.000Except unless there's a massive amount of regulation and vetting and it's as hard to get a gun as it is to become a pilot, then I'm willing to, okay, yeah, those guys, sure.
02:09:36.000Yeah, I just don't think that's the situation on the ground.
02:09:38.000I mean, we know the state is just as willing and able to initiate force against people as anybody else.
02:13:26.000I'm a big believer that one of these days they were warning about it on Poll and on X for a long time that Project Bluebeam, they're going to shine.
02:13:51.000You know, I joke a little bit about some of this stuff.
02:13:53.000Some of it I believe more than others, but I think it's instructive to look at Operation Northwoods, which was a, and this is not even, this is not conspiracy stuff.
02:14:02.000You can find this on any encyclopedia.
02:14:04.000Operation Northwoods was a plan by the CIA.
02:14:08.000To cause terror attacks across the United States and to blame the Cubans for it so that they could rally public support for a war in Cuba.
02:14:58.000When Donald Trump is president, do you distrust the government less?
02:15:03.000Well, I think you have to differentiate between what you call the government.
02:15:06.000I mean, the state is a very complicated apparatus.
02:15:08.000I mean, certainly nobody would think you're referring to the government when you talk about a municipal village or committee or anything like that.
02:15:16.000What you have in the administration right now is you have these entrenched bureaucratic and intelligence interests.
02:15:22.000In the Defense Department, in the intelligence community, in the Pentagon, where they have a very specific agenda and they'll do what it takes to pursue it.
02:15:31.000So I see Trump as kind of infiltrating a hostile organization that went against.
02:15:38.000I mean, you can look for the past 20 years, civilian governments come and go, but the policies stay the same.
02:15:42.000And everybody in the world knows this.
02:16:05.000And the reason being is because there's all kinds of foreign interference in our elections that nobody seems to mind until it's a power that wants a candidate that wants borders.
02:16:25.000Under George W. Bush, how many dual citizens were in that administration?
02:16:29.000How many people that would have some kind of a weird reason that they might support a war that would benefit Israel in the Defense Department, in the Pentagon, in the NSC?
02:16:37.000I mean, I guess it depends on which dual citizen it is.
02:17:32.000Before I were standing presidents, like Franklin Roosevelt in 1940, fought off a pretty rough primary challenge against somebody whose name escapes me right now.
02:17:42.000Came very close to unseating the president for the nomination.
02:18:03.000I don't think we elected him to be the vicar of Christ in the White House.
02:18:07.000I think we elected him to smash the globalists, to serve as a vanguard between, you know, this old world, or rather the new world establishment.
02:18:17.000And you rate his performance to date as what?
02:19:02.000Again, I never, like, I told you this already.
02:19:06.000I was laughing at how everyone was upset.
02:19:10.000Now, in retrospect, now, with everything that happened, he's done some good things and some things I don't agree with, but I'm indifferent.
02:19:21.000I don't hate him and I don't love him.
02:19:23.000It's sort of like he's done things where I'm like, oh, that's cool.
02:19:26.000And then he said some shit where I'm like, ah, come on, man.
02:21:08.000What is she doing with this charity money?
02:21:10.000Funneling it to what's the smoking gun?
02:21:12.000Oh, we can point to the number of smoking guns, but it was a very perfect storm for a lot of you people who are sort of anti woman in general, kind of have that general.
02:24:35.000Because if you can take out the personalities of the politics and, you know, oh, Hillary and all her baggage and shit, and just go by policies.
02:26:41.000I mean, look, like I said to you on my response videos when we talked, all that stuff, it's her corruption, her lies, just having that kind of person, regardless if I think abortion should be legal.
02:27:45.000That in the absence of the divine, in the absence of God, in the absence of the immaterial, when you fall in love, you know, or you, all the most sacred things, what we would describe, I think, in very religious terminology and language, would necessarily be boiled down to chemical reactions, neurons firing.
02:28:08.000And I didn't, that was not my argument for God.
02:28:10.000I just said, to me, that would be a very unfortunate and a tragic thing.
02:31:09.000I am the least anti Semitic person you've ever met.
02:31:12.000And the reason I say that is because this is a classic tactic which is used by the left, which is they're not Christian, but they will use your own faith against you.
02:31:20.000It's, oh, would Jesus be in favor of guns?
02:32:24.000But no, Jesus Christ told his disciples to sell their capes and their walking sticks and buy swords.
02:32:33.000And do you believe that the Muslims, the Muslims who believe in the same prophets as you and some of the same scriptures, you think that they are heathens as well?
02:32:41.000Yeah, Islam is essentially a Christian heresy.
02:32:45.000So, when they reference Allah, which is just the word for God, are they referencing Yahweh?
02:32:49.000Is that your God that they're talking about?
02:32:51.000Well, yeah, but it's, again, Islam is a Christian heresy.
02:33:07.000Well, if you want to get into, and I know you're having a blast with this because you only believe in flesh, you only believe in the ballot box.
02:36:15.000Is there anything that could be shown to you that would change that number?
02:36:19.000Yeah, if somebody answered the cosmological arguments and the teleological argument put forward by Aquinas, if that was put in dispute, I don't know how you do it, then maybe there'd be room for doubt.
02:36:33.000Yeah, there are people in the chat who are claiming that you're trolling and you're trying to troll Nick.
02:37:49.000Genuinely interesting to me, but there is a second layer, which is I'm speaking to my fans and friends who are atheists, and it's very amusing just to hear somebody like this and his thoughts.
02:38:00.000Like, I don't have to say anything, it's just when he says it, it's amusing to us.
02:38:39.000I was religious till I was like, well, agnostic is like a circle jerk away from atheist.
02:38:45.000Sure, there could be potentially a God, maybe, but in my perspective, like from what I think, I think is more leaning towards no, so I just use the word atheist.
02:43:56.000I'm not an expert on the hell question, but what I've seen from the apologists is that they say that it's not like demons poking with pitchforks, but it is, you know, place is kind of a weird way to say.
02:44:08.000You know, once you die, you're not in a material place, right?
02:45:22.000Yeah, I think people confront the hell question a little bit.
02:45:25.000If I can offer some insight on the hell question, I think people confront it from this position of.
02:45:30.000You know, if you're bad, God sends you here.
02:45:33.000You know, if you're on the naughty list, you go into one room.
02:45:35.000If you're on the nice list, you go into the other room.
02:45:37.000But I think it's much more helpful to understand it in the sense that when you die, your soul is either in a state of grace, you're either in communion with God and you're able to meet Him, or it's not.
02:45:52.000And I think it's either you're close with God, your soul is forever, you get to meet God.
02:45:57.000And what we describe that as the beatific vision it's not like, hey, how are you?
02:46:00.000It's like your soul becomes familiar with God, or that doesn't happen for you.
02:46:04.000And then, in which case, that's probably the worst imaginable thing.
02:46:07.000If you understand God in the sense that Aquinas does, that he is all knowing, all good, he's just, he's perfect everything, then the thought of being away from that is probably the worst thing that you could have, not ever being able to be in communion with that.
02:46:23.000So I think that's the way we look at hell.
02:46:26.000And you think our soul is a literal thing and not just a poetic use of words to describe someone's essence?
02:46:45.000Well, I mean, we talk about, well, Aristotle was a big feature of Christianity, and he said, and Aquinas elaborated on it, that something has a substance, but it also has an essence in the sense that you are a certain atom, you know, you're a certain amount of atoms and variety of atoms and arrangements of them.
02:47:38.000And then I read their books and they phrased it well and were eloquent.
02:47:40.000I think at a certain point, I understood that it's beneficial for us to read.
02:47:47.000Because then we understand the wisdom of people that have been here for a long time, people that were here a lot longer than us, institutions that lasted a lot longer than us.
02:47:56.000So, no, I've read Aquinas, I've read Aristotle, and that's interesting.
02:47:59.000You're almost like counter signaling reading.
02:48:01.000And maybe it scares you that you're hearing names and phrases that you're not familiar with.
02:50:02.000You know, you don't have to rely on that to understand that that is a convincing proof, that it's almost a.
02:50:08.000Philosophical necessity that something like God, you know, immovable, that is the uncaused causer, the unmoved mover, has to exist in some capacity.
02:50:17.000And so it's not something that falls under the purview.
02:51:54.000It's just always charming to me how atheists live in a world that was created by Christianity.
02:52:00.000They live in a world, they take advantage of the fruit of a Christian world, but yet they have no respect for the pillars that establish that society.
02:52:08.000We live in a society that follows Christian rules of conduct and morality.
02:52:12.000We live in a society that follows Christian behaviors.
02:54:58.000Now, one thing about the question that Nick asked you, I'm actually wondering so do you consider that all of our moral preferences have been caused by evolution, that we are animal and that what we like and don't like? Is caused by evolution?
02:57:00.000You're now going to introduce, oh, well, because Nick doesn't want to abridge the rights of 300 million sovereign people, that means he has no empathy for the people that died.
02:57:09.000Unlike me, I'm the most virtuous person in the world.
02:57:12.000I'm the only person that cares about people who die.
02:57:14.000That's why I'm in favor of gun control.
02:57:16.000You're a virtue signaling fag, just like all the other SJWs.
02:58:01.000I can tell that left wing insult really hurt you.
02:58:04.000I can tell that left wing insult really hurt you, Eggman, Egghead.
02:58:07.000I could tell it really bruised your ego there because you finally met someone smarter than you, and I'm younger than you, which is unfortunate for atheists.
02:59:42.000Listen, I am perfectly capable of setting up a standard for what I think is okay and what I think is not okay.
02:59:50.000But what we cannot do is say that we objectively can discern what is right because, at the end of the day, what a Christian is is a realist.
02:59:59.000We believe that there is this world and we inhabit it and we separately perceive it.
03:00:04.000And we understand that there are things in this objective world that we're all observing that are correct, that are.
03:00:11.000Morally right and things that are morally wrong.
03:00:14.000And it doesn't matter what we think about it, but this is the way it's supposed to be.
03:00:18.000This is the way it's not supposed to be.
03:00:20.000You, on the other hand, believe that, well, there is no objective right.
03:00:51.000I didn't know how to tell them to not do it, and they followed the book and became priests, the leaders, the people who had the voice for religion and still did immoral things when they should know it.
03:02:35.000So if you were to grab a hammer and smash someone in the head, before you do it, if you're not a fucking psychopath, you can go, smashing this guy in the head is going to end his life.
03:02:46.000And if this were me being hit with a hammer, I would be angry, want to murder him, and I'd be upset that I'm going to die.
03:02:54.000I'm going to miss my family, blah, blah, blah.
03:02:55.000All the neurons kick in, and you get fear and sadness.
03:02:59.000So, people who are insane, like serial killers, don't have that part in them and they want to thirst for blood.
03:03:08.000But me, as a regular person, I don't thirst for blood.
03:03:12.000Therefore, I'm not going to hit someone with a hammer because that's wrong.
03:03:16.000Andy, I'd like to encourage you to think about what Nick is really stating and admit it or don't admit it.
03:03:24.000But if you yell at him back, you cannot make it happen that you're not yelling, Nick, by the way.
03:03:30.000I'm not criticizing the fact that you're yelling.
03:03:31.000I'm saying, If you're going to give an oppositional answer to Nick, make sure you actually disagree with him because Nick is saying you only have subjective standards for your morality.
03:03:43.000Are you able to say, JF, that I disagree with this?
03:03:48.000So since they're in a group, they all follow the same morality, whereas me being an atheist, I might have a different path to morality than.
03:04:05.000Your beliefs about morality, Andy, are all subjective and all emerge from your brain, and there is no basis outside of your brain to determine that X is good or X is bad.
03:04:19.000However, I will say from my perspective, if someone that I knew were to grab a hammer, I would think and hit someone, I would think they were a bad person.
03:04:49.000Can't we all, like, with the whole golden rule thing, can't we, like, for example, just remove all religions and atheism, any belief system?
03:05:31.000So, like, if we were all in caveman days and raping and murdering and all that bullshit, God's the one, you're saying, like, God and religion was the one that created the rule set for us to live like good people.
03:05:55.000However, I'm not going to believe in something I don't believe in just because something good came from it.
03:06:05.000Okay, but that's not why we're arguing that.
03:06:07.000I'm saying that is, I'm saying because, you know, he's trying, atheism is unstoppable, is trying to tell me, well, your worldview conflicts with your political beliefs.
03:06:16.000And I'm saying this whole conversation has been about right and wrong.
03:06:19.000This whole conversation has been about people are dying, that's bad.
03:06:24.000And I'm saying that it's just very curious to me how political people can talk about the basis of right and wrong when there is no, when their worldview, and they like to dress it up like, you know, atheism is about, you know, oh, science and the advancements of technology, the wonders of space, when in actuality, the atheist worldview is very cold.
03:07:01.000Fuck, okay, the people in the fucking chat, if you can't take my opinion and you're like, oh my god, go to a circle jerk fucking goddamn live show, you fucking dumb fucking retards.
03:08:52.000No, but he said essentially in the gospel, and again, I'm not a biblical expert, but I do remember in the Bible, it says, he says, this is the new rules now.
03:09:01.000The new rules are it's about loving your neighbor, it's about the golden rule, it's about the commandments, it's about all this stuff.
03:09:08.000And so that's why, for example, they did away with the sacrifices, they did away with the circumcision, they did away with some of these things.
03:09:20.000And so, when a moral situation arises in your life, do you refer back to the book?
03:09:27.000Do you ask other people how you should think about these things?
03:09:29.000Or do you ever consider it yourself and make your own determination?
03:09:32.000Well, I think if you're under the impression that God is real and God has laid out what is moral and what isn't, I think it would kind of be stupid to say, well, I know better than the church, right?
03:09:44.000I mean, certainly I grapple with the church's teachings.
03:09:47.000Faith is not, well, we think God exists.
03:09:49.000Faith is that we're pretty certain he exists.
03:09:52.000Sometimes we don't understand the rules he lays out.
03:09:55.000We have to have faith that through our logical understanding that God is real, and therefore what he says is the truth, that we have to follow it.
03:11:40.000There's writings on this in the 80s that made this clear that homosexuality is not a sin.
03:11:46.000To have dysmorphia, to have, oh, I think I'm a woman, but I'm a man.
03:11:51.000To have certain preferences, like, I want to have sex with this person, that is not a sin.
03:11:56.000To say, I want to become a woman, that is not a sin.
03:12:00.000To act on those disordered tendencies to choose, that is a sin.
03:12:04.000So, there are plenty of homosexual Catholics who they're called to live chaste lives or chaste lives.
03:12:10.000So, being a pedophile but not acting on it is morally neutral?
03:12:17.000Well, I mean, technically, we have it that pedophilia is a perverted and a disordered tendency, but it's not a sin and it's not enough to go to hell.
03:12:33.000I guess the, I haven't checked what the church is, I'm pretty sure they're against pedophilia, but that's a nice loaded question.
03:12:39.000If they were against it, wouldn't they get rid of their priests instead of just shuffling them around?
03:12:43.000But actually, if you look at the Catholic sex scandal, well, it's hilarious that you bring it up because you haven't looked at the facts, which would have it that the Catholic, that no, that the Catholic sex scandal actually had, in terms of global institutions, we have a lower rate of abuse than standard average institutions.
03:13:19.000Statistically, and I know you haven't looked at the facts because you would find this statistically, it's not disproportionate.
03:13:25.000It's actually lower than proportionate for the size and scope of the church.
03:13:28.000But this is what you have, even though we've already answered the question that those people are sinners, those people we have a problem with, you know, but we have to address it head on.
03:14:41.000I mean, yeah, I agree with what was said.
03:14:43.000Evolutionarily, it probably would have been a benefit that people weren't raping or killing their own people.
03:14:47.000However, where do you assess that the standard for morality to determine objective morality?
03:14:54.000Is what is, in terms of consequentialism, what is best for the survival of a tribe.
03:14:59.000I think people want to say, oh, well, this code would work towards this end.
03:15:03.000In no way, shape, or form does that say that that end is the proper moral end.
03:15:09.000I mean, for example, would beating the shit out of your kid until he's bloodied and all the other kind of stuff, maybe that produces really strong men.
03:15:19.000So that's where the, you know, even though, and I understand that argument, I think it's a good argument, but it doesn't really approach the contention.
03:15:40.000If you do things that make people around you have more, you know, like happiness, and that in turn makes you happy, wouldn't that just be beneficial for the species?
03:16:00.000So you don't need a book for that because that's.
03:16:02.000But again, that's a big difference from, you know, I could say, well, if we act in this way, we would produce a lot of hammers.
03:16:11.000If we act in this way, you know, this group of the elderly would never have to work again.
03:16:16.000We can talk about codes of conduct and behavior that are directed towards ends that are very efficient.
03:16:22.000And so, you know, we could probably look at Denmark, for example, and say the kind of way people behave in Denmark makes people happy because people in Denmark are some of the happiest in the world.
03:17:24.000And what I discovered very recently to my detriment now I can't even plead the fifth on this one.
03:17:30.000I can't even plead ignorance on this one.
03:17:32.000The Catholic Church's teaching on sexuality is that all sex acts, even if they're within marriage, have to be geared towards procreative in nature.
03:17:44.000So if you're like, I don't know, if you want to.
03:17:49.000If you want to, like, I don't know, you want to introduce something else into the equation, you want to spice it up a little bit, you can't do that.
03:17:56.000It's immoral because they say all sex has to be directed towards a procreative end.
03:18:01.000And if it means that, you can't do it.
03:18:57.000It's like investing in a Roth IRA, essentially.
03:19:00.000It's like we compromise on sex for a little while and then we get to create planets and stuff.
03:19:06.000I don't know how it works when we're in the end, when we're in the final battle of Bikini Bottom and we get to roll around as SpongeBob in the theme park and whatever it is.
03:19:42.000I think he has a good insight into the difference between objective reality and the separation between objective reality and objective morality.
03:19:53.000I think he has a good understanding of the division between the two.
03:20:31.000It's such a pointless encounter because everything you say to this guy, he's just going to say, because God, because God, because God said so.
03:20:49.000Well, I think, Nick, I get your points and all that stuff because I was really religious until I was 18, right?
03:20:56.000So I understand where you're coming from on a lot of this.
03:21:01.000But for me, like what just AIU just said, you say because God, because God, you know, belief, faith, whatever.
03:21:09.000And then we say because science, and you go, oh my God, fucking science.
03:21:13.000But at least science has, like, because God ends there, and it's just faith, ends there.
03:21:19.000Because science, you go, this happens because this law of physics does this, does this.
03:21:26.000Like, there's an actual, or like evolution, for example.
03:21:30.000We could see that this thing evolves here because there's, you know, You know, bones or whatever, or fossils, so we could see we have a visible proof of it.
03:21:40.000But with God, you just go, There was a book, and I hope that it's not a fucking bullshit book.
03:21:49.000Yeah, well, to address that on the whole faith question, well, we believe the book.
03:21:55.000What happened when I bring up Aquinas, the reason I bring up Aquinas is because what he sought out to do and did effectively is create a, and this is what he, this is what his mission in life was to come up with a way.
03:22:07.000To demonstrate, to metaphysically demonstrate that God had to be real.
03:22:13.000Not using the Bible, not using the gospel, not using any account of Jesus Christ's life, but to say if we can understand certain propositions that have to be true, then we can reason our way into knowing that God is real.
03:22:28.000So I didn't come over to Christianity so much because I said, well, I believe Jesus Christ lived and rose from the dead, therefore he's God, and therefore his church is without error.
03:22:44.000And then when you understand that God can be justified both from a reasonable point of view, but also by understanding that he sent his son and, you know, rose from the dead and all of that, then that's also true.
03:23:26.000That's a nice God of the gaps argument.
03:23:28.000But the point being is you're trying to say that, well, God is your explanation for everything.
03:23:35.000Well, the Christian worldview says that there are mysteries, there's things we don't know, but it also says that there are things that we can know.
03:28:26.000And not even like a gotcha, not even like God of the Gats, explain this banana.
03:28:31.000Yeah, because if you're doing the banana argument of Rick Confort, it's old school.
03:28:37.000I hope you're not thinking about that.
03:28:39.000No, no, I just want to know because I know there's some evolutionary thing, but it's like, do animals eat it and then it drops the seeds and that's why it succeeds?
03:29:28.000AIU, I mean, as much as look, the chat might not like everyone likes AIU, he's like, but he makes me, even if I disagree with him, he makes me laugh.
03:29:38.000Nick, for example, too, I may disagree with him, but I'm entertained by his answers.
03:29:44.000Like, here's the thing is, you don't have to always agree to be entertained.
03:29:49.000Like, AIU says some shit where I would disagree, but just the way he said it was just fucking snarky and funny.
03:39:19.000This guy has no fighting spirit, uh, thinking like a woman, trivializing self preservation, and thinking that political policy can control nature.
03:41:52.000So the syndrome is when leftists start crying on the street or on Twitter, they complain against Trump.
03:41:58.000It's really people who have been victimized by just the fact that Trump won.
03:42:03.000And by the way, that last super chat I just read about Hillary bringing in more Muslims, that was a big thing for me too, was the immigration thing.
03:45:39.000That we have a lot of East Indians here or Asians, East Indians, I mean, yeah.
03:45:45.000The black and brown populations of Canada they include a lot of Asians or Indians, and the black population of America is mostly constituted by descendants of slaves.
03:49:16.000By the way, can I just say this right here?
03:49:19.000Um, if you're a woman who lives in the U.S. and you're in a shit neighborhood, maybe having a gun is a good idea.
03:49:29.000Like, you're like assuming that they're gonna like just shoot all over the place, but if They're gonna get robbed in a shit neighborhood in America where everyone has a weapon, might not be a bad idea.
03:49:42.000Even AIU said you should have one in America because of what's happening there.
03:54:10.000Nick, since laws don't stop bad people from doing bad things, why doesn't the government give everyone guns and remove all laws on murder, survival of the fittest?
03:55:01.000I couldn't carry my AR 15 in because the barrel was too long.
03:55:05.000And what I meant by it, no one has it.
03:55:07.000Has one is I don't know anyone who owns one because it's very rare.
03:55:13.000Um, anyway, cosmic, and that's because Indy lives in town, whereas people like me who live in very far from towns, everyone has guns, but it's a very you wouldn't be able to pull that gun against an home invader, it's like a very long gun stored in the basement.
03:58:02.000AIU has the assumption that a specific society civilization will last forever once guns are gone, they are gone, and one's family line will not be able to survive to the best of their ability.
04:00:42.000Restricting access to guns because a government agency failed to stop a shooting just gives the government incentive to stop fewer shootings without blame.
04:02:09.000What will you regulate when drone mounted 3D printed guns become cheaper and more reliable and other devices like Ghost Gunner become cheaper?
04:15:03.000He's the only thing stopping conservative people turning into fascists and cleaning leftists like rodents because they're no longer restricted morally.