00:00:02.000Hello, everyone, and welcome to the, for lack of a better name, to Electric Boogaloo stream, which was initially going to be a conversation about the future of the mega movement.
00:00:12.000However, there's been an interesting turn of events since deciding that name and an interesting amalgamation of characters who agreed to join in the conversation.
00:00:22.000So I just feel that this opportunity would be wasted to focus on such a limiting topic.
00:00:29.000So instead, I want to veer the conversation more towards the future that each individual in this conversation wants to see for Western civilization, because truly I believe that is why many of us discuss politics in the first place.
00:00:42.000This is why we debate, why we partake in dialogue about current affairs, because we want to mold a future into something sustainable that holds our values and will be enjoyable for generations who will inherit it from us.
00:00:54.000So once we've sort of established where people stand on this in the chat, the floor will be open to debate, critique, and inevitably.
00:01:02.000Dissolve into things that are completely off topic and irrelevant to the initial conversation.
00:01:06.000But hopefully, this will be entertaining for you on this lovely Sunday evening.
00:01:11.000So, today we don't have everyone in the chat with us to start.
00:01:15.000Right now, we have Nick Fuentes from the.
00:01:18.000Nick, can you give a little intro for yourself?
00:03:26.000You are probably the most far right on this stream.
00:03:30.000So you would see a very different future from the ones that people, even on the alt light or, of course, Steven or ContraPoints, would see.
00:03:39.000From the traditional right, people like Roaming Millennial and myself, and why do you think the future you foresee with more of the alt right is preferable?
00:03:49.000So, where I veer off from the alt light, where I veer off from a lot of these new characters that came about since the election, is I'm a traditionalist, a traditionalist conservative, more accurately.
00:04:00.000So, whereas many people in the alt light are classical liberals, self described classical liberals, I define myself as a traditionalist conservative in that I value order, hierarchy, tradition, ritual over things like freedom, over things like economic liberty that a lot of the Ben Shapiro types enjoy.
00:04:19.000So, my vision for the country is a country that Is producing children again as a country that has Jesus Christ at its core, a country that has the family at its core, and a country fundamentally that people enjoy living in and is healthy for people's mental and soul, you know, their minds and their souls, so to speak.
00:04:38.000And so I think that's preferable in a lot of ways because you look at the Reagan Revolution, for example, as kind of a good example of the triumph of classical liberalism, this purely materialist vision of our country and of the West, and you see that we still, even though we have wealth, even though we have freedom, We still have suicide epidemics.
00:04:58.000We still have all kinds of symptoms of a society that is not working.
00:05:04.000And so that's why my vision, I think, would work because we're getting back to a country that is functional, that has the fundamentals right.
00:05:11.000Now, would you consider yourself alt right, just to clarify things?
00:05:16.000I technically don't consider myself alt right only because they tend to lose me on the pure racialism, the identitarianism, and specifically the racialist strand of identitarianism.
00:05:39.000Theron, don't worry, Stephen, I will get to you.
00:05:41.000Would you say that you have any disagreements with Nick on this?
00:05:48.000Well, I'm someone who is also on the right.
00:05:52.000Something that, from what I've just heard him say, I do disagree with is that I'm someone who's on the right, but I am someone who leans libertarian.
00:05:59.000And from the sounds of it, Nick, you kind of lean more to the authoritarian side.
00:06:03.000So, I'm someone who, like Ben Shapiro, really values my things like economic freedom, individual liberty, things like that.
00:06:10.000And so, that's probably a disagreement we would have.
00:06:12.000And that's also one of the, among many disagreements that I have with people who tend to be more on the alt right.
00:06:17.000I tend to see this desire for, I guess, not, you know, the social justice more left leaning type of government regulations, but still a very strong state or a very strong state power.
00:06:30.000And that's, I'm someone who I want small government.
00:06:33.000And big community involvement, big churches, things like that.
00:06:35.000It's not that I'm a libertarian who thinks, like, yeah, you know, we'll all just do drugs and have no roads, that kind of thing, no control.
00:06:41.000I'm just someone who would rather those sort of, I guess, tempering influences come from things like smaller communities, churches, even on the state level, things like that.
00:06:53.000Now, Stephen, what are your issues with adorable sweater man and wonderful small government deal?
00:07:00.000Because I know you're probably seething there.
00:07:03.000About people not doing drugs anymore and having traditional families.
00:07:08.000Basically, the undeniable reality right now is that the world is headed towards a more kind of globalist, whatever you want to call it, thing.
00:07:17.000And that it's probably the best thing that we can do is make sure that we kind of integrate ourselves into that world as effectively as possible to ensure that as many people are kept free and happy and economically prosperous as possible rather than to try to hold on to this idea that we can keep the country looking like it did 50 or 100 or 150 years ago.
00:07:37.000Why do you think this future is going to be more economically prosperous than what we had 50 years ago, this globalist future you envision?
00:07:45.000Why will that be a positive thing for the future?
00:07:50.000For me personally, I mean, I'm a capitalist.
00:07:53.000And in terms of globalist policy generally being good for economics, that's not really an issue that's debated by any, I guess, any economist that I've ever heard of.
00:08:02.000The ability to work together with other countries to capitalize on each other's advantages, these are things that are generally accepted by pretty much all economists to be incredibly economically beneficial things.
00:08:10.000Of course, they bring other problems as well, but those are problems that I would hope to address rather than, I guess, some people kind of want to throw out the whole system because there are a couple things wrong with it and then go back.
00:08:20.000To whatever we had 50 or 100 years ago.
00:08:23.000You're being shockingly reasonable right now.
00:08:33.000I know you guys can get in shit for associating with us horrible fascist Nazis on right wing YouTube.
00:08:41.000But do tell me what your vision is for the future and where you would veer off from people like myself, Nick, and Roaming Millennial and others.
00:08:51.000Well, I would like to see an America that is a juster and fairer version of the one we already have, which is to say, a country built by waves of immigration and not Disneyland for white supremacists.
00:09:08.000Well, it's just funny to me because these people who talk about equality in one breath and then talk about mass immigration in another, what do you think is going to happen when you import people from the third world?
00:09:19.000You're going to get the same brutalism, the same despotism, the same tyranny.
00:09:23.000The same low IQ of the third world in our country.
00:09:26.000I just don't see how you square this circle.
00:09:28.000What happened when you had waves of Italian immigrants or Irish immigrants?
00:09:32.000People that was the equivalent of the third world back then.
00:09:34.000No, no, those were followers of Christ, those were Europeans and average IQs.
00:09:38.000You seriously believe that followers of Christ are going to.
00:09:49.000In the early 21st century, the Catholic tribe, the Irish Catholics, it was viewed as papist invasion.
00:09:54.000Like, I mean, it's essentially the same argument.
00:09:57.000I mean, there's differences between Italians and Anglos, for example, but the differences between Mediterraneans and Anglos is a lot smaller than the differences between Sub Saharan Africans and Anglos.
00:10:13.000If you grant that this racist pseudoscience is correct.
00:10:17.000No, but I mean, we're not even talking about genetically, but just culturally, you have to admit that a Judeo Christian culture, and I'm including Mexico in this, is.
00:10:31.000They're going to be more similar and have an easier time integrating than individuals from somewhere from like a predominantly Muslim culture.
00:10:38.000And I think we're seeing that, like, historically speaking, even people from Latin America are having an easier time assimilating culturally than what we're seeing in Europe right now with migrants from largely Muslim countries, right?
00:10:49.000There is that cultural difference that is harder to breach the more different the cultures are.
00:10:54.000When you say cultural difference, like, I don't understand where this idea is.
00:10:57.000It's so funny hearing this because, like, in America, we don't have one culture.
00:11:00.000Like, if you take somebody that lives in LA and you try to transplant them to a city in Alabama, or you even take somebody from New York and try to take them and transplant them to San Francisco, these are incredibly different cultures.
00:11:12.000What are some traits of this unifying American culture?
00:11:15.000As someone who grew up overseas in Asia and things like that, let me tell you there are cultural differences between East Coast and West Coast.
00:11:22.000People, you know, cold and I guess always in a rush in New York, more laid back and friendly in LA.
00:11:29.000Those differences pale in comparison to the differences we see when we're talking about.
00:11:34.000You know, like say Saudi Arabian culture, just basic things like are respecting someone's right to freedom of religion.
00:11:39.000Well, so like respecting women's rights, respecting the rights of.
00:11:42.000When you say women's rights, it's really interesting that you say that because if you look at somebody like LA, like if you take somebody from LA and you take their view on women's rights, you would find a lot more similarities between like a conservative like Lauren Southern, her view on women's rights, comparable to like a Muslim, than you would to somebody in LA, right?
00:11:58.000The idea that women need to cover up, that they shouldn't show too much skin.
00:12:09.000In terms of, like, in terms of women wear to be presentable in public, this is very much a fundamentalist religious idea that women need to cover up in order to be presentable.
00:12:18.000Let me clarify the difference is the choice to do so and that it is not enforced by being stoned into the freaking ground by your Sharia police.
00:12:40.000I don't think it's productive to a good society or anything that has produced a good society with the nuclear family.
00:12:47.000However, I don't believe you should be stoned for not doing so.
00:12:50.000And I think that is the fundamental difference between Islamic cultures, who do believe in this culture of submission, and the European Western.
00:13:45.000The only time I remember sovereignty in the United States being threatened was when a bunch of rednecks in what state was it where they all tried to take over the federal land because they were mad that the government was trying to mark it off as a park?
00:14:16.000I don't think anybody would argue that a change of regime and government is comparable to the fundamental transformation demographically of a nation and its people.
00:14:25.000I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that.
00:14:27.000Yeah, but not everybody's, I guess, obsessed with this demographic change.
00:14:30.000And for something that seems so important to somebody that calls themselves a traditionalist, this wasn't written into the Constitution at all that we were supposed to do.
00:14:39.000Like we said in our debate, it's in the preamble of the Constitution.
00:14:41.000But it actually isn't in the preamble.
00:14:45.000But unfortunately, in the Federalist Papers, when you Talks about our posterity.
00:14:48.000One, he never mentions race a single time.
00:14:51.000And two, that same guy that you cite that mentioned posterity, so that if he had the opportunity to, he would have banned Catholics from ever entering the United States.
00:14:58.000Which he actually does in Federalist Number Two, he doesn't explicitly say race.
00:15:03.000No, he's descending from the same stock.
00:15:05.000If you want me to pull up the quote, I can, but he says, We can't.
00:15:07.000I mean, I have my own quotes as well, but you're quoting the people.
00:16:46.000I'm not quite as I don't think that immigration, a more just society, is necessarily a society in which there is more immigration.
00:16:54.000I actually think that a just society would be a society where immigration benefits the people in the nation rather than the people outside of the nation, the people immigrating.
00:17:08.000I think they're the ones who should benefit secondarily.
00:17:12.000But I do think the whole conversation on mass immigration is interesting because I don't hear people taking much concern with the cultural differences between Muslims or people from Africa and Europeans or Americans, but they don't talk much about the differences and the problems with the differences between Western culture and, say, Asian countries.
00:17:39.000Because I am engaged to a Korean man, and the only reason I'm engaged I can be engaged to him is because he doesn't connect or identify with Korean culture at all.
00:17:52.000And I think if he did, we wouldn't be able to be together for reasons that it's extremely collectivist and conformist.
00:18:01.000It's very antithetical to many Western values, such as individualism, for example.
00:18:08.000You're taking this a step further and saying we need to cut out all the Asians.
00:18:11.000No, no, I'm saying that not talking about.
00:18:18.000About Asian, the very real problems in Asian culture and how it differs from Western culture, and how importing a lot of Asian people can change Western culture in a bad way, and rather focusing on all the brown people could come off as a dog whistle towards leftists that you're all just a bunch of racists.
00:21:38.000You just say the United States is a white Christian ethnostate?
00:21:41.000Why would it be something so important?
00:21:43.000Why would they have specifically left out any and all references to God and even went further to say that there was a separation of church and state?
00:24:55.000There's a lot of focus, even from people like Of the horrible cultural change that would happen from importing all the Muslims.
00:25:07.000And I might even agree with that, but I just find it a little bit hypocritical because to me, it sounds like he wants to change American culture to something that it isn't, maybe to something that it was thousands of years ago or hundreds of years ago, but definitely something that it isn't anymore.
00:25:24.000And probably something that would be an existential threat to me as a trans person.
00:25:30.000So, I just find that very rich and hypocritical.
00:25:34.000Like, sure, like, I don't even think if it has any more merit that you want to change culture into something, American culture today, into something that it was hundreds of years ago.
00:25:44.000Because I think that what it was hundreds of years ago represents, you know, what is written in the Quran in many ways very closely.
00:26:01.000What I'm talking about is going back to the natural order of things, the natural order ordained by God, which prevailed in this great land up until just about 50 years ago.
00:26:12.000So we're not talking about going back hundreds of years.
00:28:16.000That I am not a white nationalist, and I've even brought up things like the question.
00:28:20.000Of why it would be that white people would get along so right now when the history of European conflict shows us that the opposite is true, things like that.
00:28:27.000But I do stand by that there is a difference between a debate and an interview.
00:28:31.000A lot of my subscribers are happy to actually see what Richard Spencer says.
00:28:35.000And if your problem is that he came off too positively, then you can feel free to make a response video to that.
00:28:42.000But in terms of the Asian question and Muslim immigration, I actually do think I get what you're saying.
00:28:48.000And there is definitely a problem with integration in Asian communities, especially East and West Coast of the United States and Canada.
00:28:54.000But the reason why it makes more sense to focus on the Muslim issue now is because they are more of an existential threat just in terms of safety through terrorist attacks.
00:29:04.000Now, especially in the US as well, but especially looking at Europe right now.
00:29:11.000And I think Canada is probably going to be going down that road eventually just because of the amount of immigrants we're seeing because of the whole refugee situation.
00:29:18.000I think it does make sense to focus on the Muslim question first, but that doesn't mean that Asians get a free pass, right?
00:29:28.000But Asians are notoriously insular, and that's not acceptable.
00:29:33.000And I think part of the reason why we're seeing that is because that's what happens when you let in too many of the same group at the same time.
00:29:39.000And I think that's an argument for stricter border control and lower immigration numbers.
00:29:43.000If people come over more slowly, they'd have less of a chance to form these ghettos and insular communities, and they'd be more forced to assimilate.
00:29:50.000So it's not that Asians get a free pass, it's just that I think there are bigger issues to focus on right now.
00:29:54.000But I mean, it's also part of the same question of immigration.
00:30:33.000I mean, he was here for decades, didn't speak English.
00:30:36.000Same with his wife that he brought over, not my biological grammar, she died, but didn't speak English either.
00:30:41.000They lived in buildings where a lot of the older residents, none of them spoke English.
00:30:45.000And I think language is a huge indicator of someone's assimilation level.
00:30:49.000If you can't talk to the population surrounding you, then it's a pretty good bet that you're not on the same page with more civic issues or cultural issues, things like that.
00:30:58.000With the Asian community, we're not really talking about an issue of religion since most Asians are secular.
00:31:03.000But just culturally, there's a huge problem with people not talking to each other, despite the fact that they live maybe streets down from each other.
00:31:09.000Okay, I think that was a hugely dishonest answer.
00:31:12.000When people talk about integrating to American values, the only thing you're talking about is English?
00:31:33.000Those values would be things like freedom of religion, respecting other people's right to practice their own religion freely, like you can practice yours.
00:31:40.000We're also talking about women's rights, the fact that, like we're seeing in.
00:31:44.000Happening in London, if you are a Muslim man, you do not have the right to tell women that they should be covering up because it does not affect you, things like that.
00:31:51.000Okay, so one at a time on things like women's issues, these are things that we don't even have a consistent view of in the US.
00:32:08.000So, just one at a time on these values, because you keep presenting these as though there's like a consistent American view on values, which is ludicrous.
00:32:14.000When you talk about women's issues, There are people that think that some women should be able to breastfeed in public.
00:32:18.000Some women shouldn't be allowed to breastfeed in public.
00:32:20.000Some people want to hashtag free the nipple.
00:32:22.000Other people think that it's disgusting that women would wander around outside.
00:32:25.000These are all white American differences and ideas.
00:32:27.000Some people think that abortion should be something that every woman is entitled to.
00:32:30.000Other people think it's one of the greatest sins you can commit.
00:32:32.000How could you possibly expect somebody to come to this country and integrate to our ideas about women's freedom?
00:32:38.000What does that even mean to an American?
00:32:52.000We all agree that, yeah, women should be allowed to vote, that women are not the property of their husbands, that child brides are not acceptable.
00:32:59.000These are basic values that apparently in Islam a lot of them don't get honor killings are not acceptable, that a woman who was raped should not be blamed for her rapist actions.
00:34:03.000I do believe that rape does happen within our society.
00:34:06.000And I will agree that the rich and powerful do not play by the same rules as the rest of us.
00:34:11.000They can finagle things, they can make sure people can't get jobs, they can get all sorts of legal contracts.
00:34:16.000But when someone is unequivocally proven to have raped another individual, society as a whole within the West, Rejects them and that is illegal.
00:34:28.000Within Islamic societies, that is not within the law and the popular culture.
00:34:32.000I do see where you're coming from when you say Harvey Weinstein was able to get away with horrible things because of his power, but I don't think that is what is representative of overall culture.
00:34:44.000That's why everyone was pissed when that came out in the news, and that's why everyone's hanging Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey because we're against those things.
00:34:51.000We can't even watch House of Cards anymore.
00:35:45.000No, if your boss says have sex with me, you just say no, and then you don't know what the repercussions are going to be to your job, dog.
00:35:50.000But you always have an option, and I think it's I think it's awful that their career is being threatened, but what he's doing is illegal.
00:35:57.000Once it was brought to light, people are outraged, and that I think that goes to show that this is not acceptable behavior, what he was doing, and it is a shame that he got on for so long doing it.
00:36:07.000But I think it's more indicative and more telling of the culture in Hollywood specifically and the power dynamics over there.
00:36:19.000She can file sexual harassment complaints and he will be fired.
00:36:24.000I mean, I don't really know what to say.
00:36:27.000I know so many people who have gone to human resources and not been believed, had the whole thing smoked into the world, they've been relocated.
00:37:50.000That's something my sister wants to be.
00:37:51.000That's something a lot of women I know want to be.
00:37:53.000However, Nick, I do want to ask you I don't know if that is a possible future in our current economy and where it's already been going in this direction where you can't even raise a family on one income.
00:38:06.000So do you see that as a little utopian?
00:38:21.000You know, should we be striving to push women into the workforce to push them onto the fucking battlefield in Iraq and into the assembly lines and into this neoliberal hellscape?
00:38:32.000Look, mommy's home, you know, honey, you know, dinner's on the table.
00:38:35.000Should we be pushing them towards that?
00:38:37.000I mean, that's fundamentally the question.
00:38:39.000So I understand if women have to work in this day and age, it makes perfect sense.
00:38:43.000I mean, the economy has been destroyed and pillaged by rootless transnational globalists.
00:38:48.000And so unfortunately, that is reality today.
00:38:51.000But in the future, We'd like to see women fulfilling their biological necessity there and having the kids, having those kids.
00:38:59.000I think, I think, let's let roaming jump in here.
00:39:03.000Contra, you obviously disagree, but roaming, I think, is more interesting because you're still on the right, but you seem to disagree with this.
00:39:13.000But I think we have to look at this realistically.
00:39:15.000If we look at like incident indices globally of women's participation rate in the workforce, there's a strong correlation between high GDP per capita and women's participation in the workforce.
00:39:25.000And that's pretty obvious if you think about why.
00:39:27.000It's if, you know, if half your population, working age population is just staying home, that doesn't really translate to a strong economy.
00:39:33.000And if you also think about how long, Women have to be there to be the primary caregivers for their children.
00:39:38.000You know, women, like, let's say people have 40, maybe even 50 working years a day.
00:39:44.000Women don't need to be at home the entire time that they're working.
00:39:47.000That's not even counting things like part time work, which a lot of mothers do very well, especially when their kids get older.
00:39:52.000And so I think there doesn't need to be this, you know, one or the other approach when we're talking about women in the workforce.
00:39:58.000I very strongly believe that families are super important.
00:40:01.000I think that whenever possible, financially, it's not always possible, but if possible, it is a great.
00:40:06.000Thing to have a full parent there for the kids when they're younger.
00:40:12.000Kids, the time that they're at home is finite, and women should still be able to participate in the economy when there are no children around, especially when we're looking at jobs.
00:40:21.000I mean, I don't know, Nick, what you think about this.
00:40:22.000Like, would you restrict women's ability to become things like teachers or nurses, which are predominantly female dominated roles?
00:40:30.000No, but I think we should discourage women from getting into the workforce.
00:40:33.000I think to deprive a child of a mother and a father growing up, you know, that they get shoved into some daycare, looked after by someone who doesn't.
00:40:40.000I mean, that's fundamentally at the core of it.
00:40:42.000I mean, I shitpost about this often, but I mean, that's when it comes down to it.
00:40:46.000You talk to any child whose parents are divorced or who wasn't raised by a mother, and there's a marked difference in people who are raised by a mother who's staying home and really cared about the kids and cared about their diet, their social life, their education, and looked after them.
00:41:01.000It's not like it'd be nice if, you know, we had a mother to stay home.
00:41:43.000Yeah, so again, like discouraging women from working entirely because they have to stay home and raise children, I think you're overestimating how many years we're living and how many hours there are in a day.
00:41:51.000No, but we're not talking about women getting like a part time job while the kids are in high school.
00:41:56.000We're talking about, and it is black and white.
00:41:58.000It's not so much gray, it is black and white of whether or not, because you saw the trend for the past 40 years has been the stay at home mom is a loser.
00:42:47.000And preparing a presentation for the big sales pitch or being at home, being with little babies and taking them to the park and playing games with them.
00:42:55.000I'd rather play Go Fish with my kids than go and be a fucking lawyer, you know, for bankruptcy law, right?
00:43:03.000And that's why, even myself personally, looking at what I want in the next 10 years, honestly, I've got to say that my career ambitions are very limited in the fact that I would so rather be a mom.
00:43:12.000But again, that doesn't mean, for example, what Lauren and I are doing right now.
00:43:16.000Like, it doesn't need to be either or.
00:43:18.000And women have that ability to do both, especially before they have children.
00:43:22.000And when we're looking at the fertile window, let's say like 25 to 35, that is by no means someone's entire working life.
00:43:27.000But I mean, we can move on or bring Contra into this.
00:43:46.000Because, like, it's the ultimate irony is seeing people, like, kind of roaming millennial and then super Lauren Southern, who don't have children, talk here and espouse, like, the most important job of a woman is to be a baby pumper.
00:43:57.000But here you guys are pursuing your careers, as much as I vehemently disagree with both of you, doing things that you probably couldn't do if you had a kid.
00:44:04.000You talk about how like 25 to 35 isn't the entire lifespan of a woman.
00:44:07.000Taking two or three years out of your 20s, late 20s, early 30s, your most important, like early establishing career building years, that's a big commitment from some people.
00:44:14.000And both of you have made the choice not to do so, not to have children and instead pursue this whatever kind of quasi career thing we all have.
00:44:23.000But the thing is, when we say that women should have children, or at least, I mean, I'm not going to talk for anything else here, but that doesn't mean have children before you're financially sound.
00:44:34.000Partner that you can build your life with, right?
00:44:36.000I mean, I like, I'm not just saying get pregnant as soon as possible.
00:44:39.000It's have, like, have, be financially stable.
00:44:42.000Have a partner who's going to be there because I think, like, father figures are so important to be there for your child.
00:44:47.000Like, it's not just pop out babies indiscriminately.
00:44:49.000That's actually, I think, very much the opposite of what needs to be done.
00:44:52.000And I think we see the damage of just having children thought I need care or concern of how you're going to raise them.
00:44:57.000And I mean, like, I'm 23 and I have no doubt that there's still some time left on these eggs.
00:45:44.000However, I have to defend Nick because he was saying, I just want to move the culture in this way.
00:45:50.000I don't want to force people to do any of this.
00:45:53.000I want to direct the culture towards something where people make decisions that statistically make them happier.
00:45:58.000If you read books like Charles Murray's Coming Apart, the statistics in their show that yes, having children gives you a more fulfilling life.
00:46:05.000It gives you, yes, more ups and downs.
00:46:07.000And sometimes you won't be as financially rich as you could have been, but it does give you more meaning in your life.
00:46:13.000Appreciate that and want that in their society and culture.
00:46:16.000There's a huge difference between saying, I think everybody should be able to choose to do what they want to do, but I think that most women would be happy doing this.
00:46:23.000There's a difference between that and then going on Nick's Twitter and then seeing him find some woman that wants to join the pharmaceutical industry and being like, Look at this dumb fucking cunt.
00:46:31.000I can't believe this stupid bitch wants to join the work of God.
00:46:56.000Yes, I see we have a fellow big brain Nipah atheist here.
00:46:59.000But no, look, I am passionate because I see women who are throwing their ovaries and their lives down the drain because some commercial, some like Hyundai Sonata commercial said, look, women can be Jedi, and they should be astronauts.
00:47:13.000Women could be happy, you know, maybe if they're being a secretary, maybe if they're being a teacher or, you know, whatever.
00:47:18.000But when they pursue these careers at the expense of a strong husband, a household.
00:47:38.000Well, I appreciate you stating your views clearly earlier so that you guys understand that this is essentially like fundamentalist Islam, right?
00:47:44.000This is pretty closely aligned with their views on women, right?
00:47:50.000Well, like I said, the difference is force and it being enforced by a Fist or a rock, or whatever it may be.
00:47:58.000Like excessive bullying or moving the culture in a certain direction, you know, like this doesn't, as long as there's not actual gun hell to their head, it's a totally different thing.
00:48:29.000And I think what Destiny was doing, Destiny is a stripper name, by the way, but when Destiny was addressing Twitter, he was taking jokes or trolls out of context to try to make them as serious statements.
00:48:44.000If that's how he wants to style, that's cool.
00:48:45.000Well, you just get mad because you make a lot of statements where you lie and then you pretend later that you were trolling, like when you said you weren't fat as fuck and then everybody saw you.
00:48:53.000I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but I was going to talk about it.
00:49:22.000And that is supposed to be championed right now when we've proven statistically that women aren't happy that way.
00:49:29.000They're happier with kids, they're happier in families, they're happier in marriages.
00:49:34.000The other thing I'll say as far as a choice between career and children, no one ever regrets their children unless you had destiny as your kid, unless you're destiny's parents.
00:50:09.000No one is saying, okay, when we're talking about this, we're talking about cultural norms and prevailing social attitudes.
00:50:13.000Right now, no one's saying women cannot have kids, but there is a very, very strong narrative being pushed toward young women that they should be going after their careers rather than families, and that even white people shouldn't be having kids at all.
00:51:28.000I get my politics from political policies that are passing in Congress.
00:51:33.000We're talking about culture right now.
00:51:35.000And no one's saying that is illegal for white people to populate, but a lot of the regressive left, they're trying to push this idea that if you are a Western and a woman, you should not be having children.
00:52:23.000But the issue is you have the exact same thing said by Macron, where he says, hey, in Africa, they should stop having so many kids because it's Hurting their ability to raise them properly and to raise healthy children, and everyone calls them a racist.
00:52:35.000So, for some reason, it is racist for Macron to say, Hey, you shouldn't be having nine babies.
00:53:04.000No, this is the problem when you argue with you people is that what you guys do is you find, like, if I want to argue against a policy by, say, Republicans in the United States or right leaning politicians in the United States, I can point to actual legislation penned by actual congressmen and senators in Congress and I can talk about the impacts that these things will have.
00:53:24.000So, for instance, attacks on women's rights to choose for an abortion or the North Carolina voter ID law or different or the transgender ban that Trump was sitting right.
00:53:32.000I point to these things and I'll say these are problems.
00:53:34.000But then, for Lauren or Roaming Millennial or No Dumbass or whatever, what you guys will do is you'll find, well, look at these seven tweets that I found and look at the professor that I had in college.
00:53:42.000Like, how can you think that these things are at all the same type of thing?
00:53:45.000The professors are actually more important.
00:53:47.000Again, politics is downstream of culture.
00:53:49.000You change culture first, and then politics eventually ends up reflecting that.
00:54:10.000You don't have things like private schools or charter schools like we do have.
00:54:13.000But when you have this almost anti Western bent being taught from the time children go to school, especially when they're in university, that affects the way people think.
00:54:23.000And eventually that affects the way people vote.
00:54:25.000So, yes, that is even more important than legislation.
00:54:27.000It's very easy to overwrite legislation.
00:54:29.000It's very hard to change the way people think.
00:55:04.000What you're essentially saying is that if the leftist policies in the school carry on long enough, it is possible that at some undetermined date in the future, left leaning thought might actually make it to Congress where right leaning thought is now.
00:55:48.000That's literally the opposite of having an unwed single mother.
00:55:51.000No, we're talking about life choices in general and the way.
00:55:54.000Now that abortion is so readily available, women are free to be a lot more promiscuous and they're making worse decisions for their lives.
00:56:00.000And the level of promiscuity that women exhibit during their dating period really affects their likelihood of forming long term stable commitments like marriage later on in life.
00:56:09.000Do you think the government needs to be legislating morality for how promiscuous we're allowed to be?
00:56:12.000I thought you were the person of small government.
00:56:14.000I didn't say they need to legislate, you can't sleep with these people.
00:56:17.000But when we're talking about things like, oh, let's say welfare states, like if you enable a behavior and make it easier to do, you're encouraging it.
00:56:24.000And it's not that we need to outlaw promiscuity, but we shouldn't make it easy.
00:56:28.000For large single mothers to have these large families that they're raising without fathers.
00:56:34.000We shouldn't be subsidizing that because it encourages that behavior.
00:57:22.000Yeah, so I guess in terms of American values or American society, I thought that, or at least for my goal personally, for my personal philosophy, is you always want to enable people to make the most choices that they can to maximize their own personal happiness.
00:57:34.000So, things like access to contraceptives or things like giving women the right to choose for an abortion, these are positive things.
00:57:40.000If you want to argue against it, I mean, you can, but that seems to be like earlier, I think you made fun of Nick because you said that he was authoritarian and you were libertarian.
00:57:47.000But now you're talking about how the state needs to cut off access to things like abortion because we're enabling women to make bad choices or something.
00:57:55.000Well, I think abortion is its own thing because I think, you know, someone's freedom to abortion is not trumped by the right of a fetus to, you know, not die.
00:58:03.000But when we're talking about things like the welfare state, which I also mentioned, the welfare state is.
00:58:07.000Basically, the antithesis of small government.
00:58:11.000Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but we're not talking about the promiscuity of women.
00:58:15.000It's like that was an issue that needed to be addressed by government.
00:58:18.000So, the welfare state and abortion, those things in tandem have, I think, very much destroyed the prevalence of the nuclear family, especially when we're talking about low income communities.
00:58:28.000And if we're looking at that now, like 40 years ago or 50 years ago, the African American instance of marriage.
00:58:38.000What was comparable to white families?
00:58:40.000If we look at that now, it's totally been destroyed.
00:58:43.000And we can't ignore the policy implications that have come from things like, you know, enlarging the, what you call it, the welfare state.
00:58:51.000And, you know, when we're talking about, I've, by the way, never said we should limit access to contraception.
00:59:11.000This is getting a little, this is stagnating in one spot.
00:59:14.000We're just screaming at each other about single motherhood.
00:59:16.000Not that it's not a, Fascinating topic and a massive problem in the West right now.
00:59:20.000But I do want to see if anyone wants to move on to any other topics so that we can keep this entertaining, keep this fun, and move on to other people.
00:59:29.000Nick, Theron, Medoker, anything you want to talk about?
01:02:10.000The point is, the only institutional discrimination in the country today is against white people.
01:02:15.000And you, I'm sure, maybe you're some kind of Black Lives Matter cuck, but many people have it in their minds that black people are discriminated against, that there's this institutional racism against non whites.
01:02:24.000But in fact, the only institutional on the books policies that discriminate.
01:02:28.000In practice, in written code against white people, are those affirmative action policies?
01:02:34.000And you ask if those hurt people, you ask if that makes a difference.
01:02:37.000You know, that you tell somebody who's white they don't get to go to college because of the color of their skin.
01:02:42.000They don't get a job because of the color of their skin.
01:02:43.000We've had in places where that was challenged, like at the University of Texas, they still took the top 10% of applicants, and the Supreme Court struck that down as not necessarily a thing of racism.
01:02:51.000You're using your personal story to disprove that.
01:03:21.000The Supreme Court, dude, I don't want to argue their case against you.
01:03:23.000I mean, like, in North Carolina, it was very, very clearly targeted towards black people.
01:03:26.000The state legislature requested data by racial breakdown in order to disallow the very specific dates that black people voted and the very specific types of ID that black people used to vote and to close very specific black majority voting booths, right?
01:03:40.000I know that for people like you, for the enlightened centrist, if it's not there in the letter of the law, you don't think that it's racist.
01:03:45.000But for the rest of us that have to deal with the pragmatic implementation of policy in the real world, these things end up being pretty fucking racist.
01:03:51.000Destiny, this little guy, you must hate him.
01:04:20.000The truth of the matter is how much money has been dedicated to these programs for inner cities, for black youth, for blacks in STEM, for blacks in college, diversity quotas, and nothing's changed.
01:04:35.000I grew up in a country where there was no institutional discrimination.
01:04:37.000It's time to say, look, everybody's got to play ball.
01:04:40.000Everybody's got to play by the same rules.
01:04:42.000How do you explain studies where they take similar applications and they switch out a white name with a black name and the guy has a 50% chance less of getting a call back?
01:04:49.000How do you explain something like that?
01:04:51.000I can explain that easily because blacks and whites, there are differences in the representation and the statistics.
01:04:56.000For example, if you look at the crime statistics for 2016, you look at just about any, no, I think it's all measures of crime, and black people commit by far and away more crime than white people.
01:05:06.000And by the way, the proportions are virtually the same, whether it's rape, murder, whatever you want to divide it by.
01:05:12.000And so then people are using the economy of information.
01:05:17.000Why is it fair that if a black guy has the exact same application as a white Person and his name is switched with a white person, he'll have twice the chance.
01:05:45.000But I think what's interesting regarding that study, if you look at what are the traditionally black names that they've chosen, they're actually, I mean, they're things like you know, Shaniqua, things like that.
01:05:53.000Black people can have names like Darren, like Wilson, things like that.
01:05:57.000So if the white person has the wrong name, it's okay to discriminate against them?
01:06:02.000How do you think a white person with a name like, I don't know, Billy Bob Thornton would do?
01:06:07.000Like, how do you think a white person with a name like, I don't know, Mary Sue or like, I don't know, hillbilly redneck names?
01:06:14.000I think, you know, I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist within individual hiring practices, but I also think there's an element of classism here that perhaps people are ignoring, right?
01:06:22.000And it's not just like, oh, black versus white.
01:06:25.000It's also, I mean, it's also a Class thing you can tell a lot with a name.
01:06:28.000Can you take white names, replace them with black names, and somehow extrapolate from it?
01:06:32.000It must be what is a white name versus a black name?
01:06:58.000Okay, there's no differences between, yeah, but you also believe that somebody that goes to Washington High School is gonna have the same opportunities in life as somebody that goes to like St. Louis, the 23rd.
01:07:09.000I'm hearing a lot of problematic rhetoric coming out of you that there's a white woman.
01:07:14.000We go into a corner that we can't respond.
01:07:58.000You had that gentleman, and this is a story that many of us know about, easily Googleable, where he kept repeatedly entering his poetry to be accepted, to be published, to be published, to be published, and he could not get it published until he changed his name to an Asian name.
01:08:13.000Because then he was suddenly within a criteria of like diversity hiring.
01:08:18.000So, within the arts, within other fields, you certainly see this as well.
01:08:21.000And this is just a natural thing that exists in the world.
01:08:23.000It is certainly being pushed by leftist agendas who want to get rid of whites.
01:08:28.000And right now, our culture is currently pushing against any sort of agenda to hire against or being prejudiced towards minorities.
01:08:36.000That is not a popular trend in the culture at all.
01:08:39.000It's pushing the opposite way to be prejudiced towards whites, even if that is still happening to an extent.
01:08:44.000Once again, your evidence for this is a single data point.
01:08:51.000I cited one of the most comprehensive studies from the National Bureau of Economics Research called Are Emily and Greg More Employable Than Lakeisha and Jamal?
01:08:59.000The study is kind of old, but it has been one of the most comprehensive studies.
01:09:02.000They did thousands of applications on this to see whether or not a well-off job is a good job.
01:09:06.000Okay, well, then, Stephen, let me cite the law.
01:09:08.000There's diversity hiring in Canada for all government jobs.
01:09:12.000If I'm a woman or someone who is black or Asian or whatever, I am more likely to get a job in the military or police force or in education.
01:09:35.000Well, I mean, the goal behind affirmative action policies is that usually they try to open up positions or they try to find ways to help groups that have been disproportionately impacted by past law.
01:09:46.000And generally, white people don't seem to be hurt by this very much.
01:09:49.000That's why we're not having a discussion right now about how all of the white communities are being destroyed and all of white is.
01:09:53.000The white hood, or whatever, white people are being thrown into poverty as a result of these horrible, atrocious affirmative action programs.
01:09:59.000Like, you can cite me all the one off things you want, or like, well, the law says this thing, but you can't find me these communities of white people that are being destroyed by criminal justice systems or being destroyed by, you know, failing education systems or fucked up cities.
01:11:08.000You always try to present this as the most hyperbolic thing possible.
01:11:11.000Believe it or not, it is simultaneously possible to recognize that there are problems in the black community, some of them maybe even belonging to black people and black cultures themselves, while also recognizing that black people have disproportionately faced really fucked up things in their history in America that other white people haven't.
01:11:25.000You can simultaneously recognize both of these positions and be just fine.
01:11:55.000Do you mean their relationship with the police as in the police are treating them badly or black people are responding badly to the police?
01:12:02.000I would say it's probably a combination of both.
01:12:04.000But a lot of this roots from the problems of police legitimately fucking up black people in earlier in the 50s and 60s and shit, right?
01:12:11.000A lot of culture is reactionary to other problems.
01:12:26.000And by the way, it's not like it's just like communities here that haven't been working.
01:12:31.000Certain people have been failing for thousands of years.
01:12:34.000And to write that off as like, oh, well, it's just because they haven't been given enough money or programs, I think is a little bit ridiculous.
01:13:26.000We're not trying to stop people from having babies.
01:13:28.000We want the majority in the country to start having kids again.
01:13:31.000And it's because their birth rate is so low that their population hasn't been maintained.
01:13:37.000By the way, Stephen, do you think it's been like an accident that the population of whites in the country went from 90% to 67% in 50 years?
01:13:46.000For us to want to move in the opposite direction, we're villains for that.
01:13:51.000You're the ones that want to push this artificial transformation, unnatural transformation of our country, and we have to justify ending that.
01:16:51.000So I think that makes a lot of sense to put stuff like that, like it's okay to be white signs up on university campuses.
01:17:00.000And I think the thing with the mainstream media and leftists is that they just immediately interpret as the worst possible interpretation of, oh, this is Nazi propaganda.
01:17:13.000And that doesn't mean that there couldn't be subtext ever.
01:17:18.000Certainly, there could be some subtext, but I still think it's still important to employ the principle of charity and to interpret statements, to use the best plausible interpretation of a statement or argument when conversing with someone else.
01:17:37.000I think that's a problem with the right and a problem with the left when dealing with each other, is that they don't employ the principle of charity towards one another.
01:17:47.000And so, like Nick and Stephen, everything is translated in the worst possible way.
01:18:26.000And then I'm sure Steve said a bunch of things towards Nick that was not really very charitable towards Nick, though I can't think of one right now.
01:18:34.000This is the nature of debate these days.
01:18:36.000It's funny, it's entertaining, and it is helpful to debate.
01:18:39.000And when the opponent in a debate is not charitable with you, why be charitable with them is what it ultimately comes down to.
01:18:46.000It's not necessarily the most radical, centrist, most reasonable way of approaching things, but it is the world we live in and it is the state of debate that we are in now.
01:18:57.000It's gotten to extremes where Of course, you have, for example, the Antifa holding up that we support pedos, no pedo bashing thing, where they literally dropped that immediately after, according to some articles, and interpreting that the wrong way has really destroyed any sort of argument or actually attacking their actual points.
01:19:17.000But, I mean, with the current way that the left is treating the right, it is just as devolved.
01:20:01.000Here's where we can find some common ground.
01:20:03.000People like Stephen have to be held responsible for the fact that they are pushing policies that are transformative and the natural order continues to be perverted.
01:20:13.000And I think if we could argue from that axiom where Stephen has to justify millions of people coming here, instead of me having to justify why we don't take millions of people, I think that's a productive way to change the conversation because it happens to be the reality of the situation.
01:20:45.000I don't think you understand nature and biodiversity if you want to equate natural order with whatever you're talking about because nature actually allows for a lot of variation.
01:21:02.000Women are, on average, predisposed to want to have children, but that doesn't mean that nature doesn't allow for some women who are predisposed to probably hate to have children and would probably be better off not having children.
01:21:16.000This whole idea that there is this order ordained by nature, in your case, God, onto humans is just fallacious.
01:21:27.000The reality of the situation is that nature is constantly in flux, that the environment is constantly in flux, and that we're constantly adapting.
01:21:35.000So, the natural order is constantly changing.
01:23:32.000You have an idea in your mind of religious order.
01:23:35.000You have an idea in your mind of cultural order.
01:23:36.000Well, I mean, I don't see eye to eye with Nick on everything, but I don't think it's necessarily him inserting religion into this to say that the natural order is for people to be forming pair bonds and having children.
01:23:47.000Even if we accept that if people, some people, individuals may not want to do that, it is undisputably the natural order for people to make children and raise them.
01:23:56.000Things you're talking about the natural order as exists as a scientific fact.
01:23:59.000Nick is asserting that is a philosophical ought.
01:24:02.000These are two gaps that, well, I mean, it's both.
01:24:04.000No, no, no, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not both.
01:24:09.000Um, you cannot bridge the fact that some things exist in the world of science and they all of a sudden become biological imperatives.
01:24:14.000We spend plenty of time in our daily lives, we are talking to each other on video screens using computers to communicate with one another.
01:24:21.000Okay, we do a lot of things that can't be directly tied to our biological imperatives.
01:24:26.000Um, right, but that doesn't, that doesn't make it.
01:25:10.000You two are going to take over the stream again.
01:25:12.000So I'm going to give Theron a chance to respond and then Romain a chance to respond.
01:25:16.000Here's the difference someone who is naturally predisposed not to want to have children and probably not be a good mother and probably someone who shouldn't have children.
01:25:27.000She's not someone who goes against the natural order.
01:25:29.000She is someone who is part of a natural order as a variation.
01:26:19.000I think I can identify the problem, and the problem here seems to be semantics.
01:26:23.000It seems to be that, of course, Theron, you are right.
01:26:27.000Variations are part of the natural order, technically speaking.
01:26:31.000However, when we're speaking on just a general term of naturally, this is typically what happens.
01:26:37.000Generally speaking, I understand what Nick's point is, and generally speaking, I understand what Roman Millennial's point is, but technically speaking, you are correct.
01:26:46.000This is an argument over semantics, though.
01:26:53.000Because there's a very, very, very important difference in meaning when you say someone is an exception to the natural order and someone is going against the natural order or the ordained word of God.
01:27:06.000There's a difference between just existing as a woman who just is naturally predisposed not to want to have children and a woman who is sinning against the word of God because she doesn't want to have children.
01:27:20.000Well, I mean, I don't think Nick has said that in this stream that people are sinning against.
01:27:58.000Talking specifically about families, or at least that's what my impression was when we're talking about women having families and having children.
01:28:04.000Maybe I've lost sight of the conversation, though.
01:28:07.000Yeah, I think I might be a little lost.
01:28:09.000So, what Theron is the difference between what these two are arguing, I think, okay, if I can try to understand Nick's point of view, is Nick says that there is a certain order to the natural world, that this order is something that can be factually and scientifically observed, and that we should do our best to preserve that order in society.
01:29:33.000Stephen believes in comparative advantage only insofar as it extends to the marketplace.
01:29:37.000He doesn't believe in comparative advantage when it comes to the fact that women are more suited to rearing and raising children and men more suited to hunting, building things.
01:29:49.000I think that if we had a 100% equal society where there was no pressure on any sides whatsoever, I think that you would see women gravitate towards some jobs more than men.
01:30:07.000But In the marketplace, if women could still work in the world where they're allowed to choose jobs, that women would probably gravitate towards some things more than others.
01:30:15.000The problem is that what Nick is trying to do is Nick is taking his observation of the natural order and he's trying to extrapolate a system of morals from that.
01:30:21.000But in society, we generally don't do this.
01:30:24.000If we have a person who is, like, say, we have somebody that's disabled, right?
01:30:48.000It's very clear that they have a disability.
01:30:49.000And if I can bring this back to the whole debate about women and having children, it is totally fine if an individual woman doesn't want to have children and wants to focus on a career or whatever.
01:30:58.000She just doesn't want children for whatever reason.
01:31:04.000I guess my point is that I feel like variation and the acknowledgement of human variation is slowly getting lost in this natural order conversation because you have to acknowledge that variation, natural variation, and biodiversity.
01:31:25.000But you know, you talk about men and women and you talk about Aristotle's four causes.
01:31:30.000Let's talk about Aristotle's four causes.
01:31:32.000The last of Aristotle's four causes is the final cause, which means that all things that are created, all things that exist, have a final end.
01:31:39.000They are directed towards a particular end.
01:31:42.000And human beings are directed towards a particular end.
01:31:44.000You know, why do we have reproductive appendages?
01:32:27.000I'm curious because biologically speaking, a man and a woman can be married, and that man can still feel intense sexual attraction for other people.
01:32:33.000So why would that be unnatural to you?
01:32:35.000Shouldn't men naturally be polyamorous?
01:32:38.000No, no, because again, it's a difference between men having certain sexual chemistry, and the reason for that is because there are, you know, women are the selectors in terms of who carries on the genes.
01:32:49.000Women have the genes that carries on the genes.
01:32:51.000I don't think Nick is making it entirely natural.
01:36:32.000Anyone else like to wrap this up with some kind comments?
01:36:36.000I just kind of like what I was trying to say to Theron is that whenever I talk about marriage and family and things like that, very often people get the sense that you're condemning the morality of people who choose to go against you.
01:36:49.000But what I would like to see is a culture where, for example, in university, I think we all kind of generally agree that university is a good choice to make, but that doesn't mean someone who Chooses not to go to university is a bad or immoral person.
01:37:00.000That's what I would like to see regarding marriage and the family that we all recognize it as a universal good, but that we don't demonize people if their personal circumstances don't point toward that way.
01:37:09.000And I think there is something to be said about, you know, judge not lest you be judged, just saying, Nick.
01:39:31.000I'm just curious because, like, I'm engaged, I'm soon to get married, and I'm probably going to have children in the next two years.
01:39:38.000This degenerate that I am, you know, I guess that might be, I'm just a living example of the fact that we all have some natural variation in us.
01:39:48.000Uh, that and that there's not like this platonic ideal of what people should be in every point in time until the end of time.
01:39:57.000Um, that someone can have this variation here but still satisfy all the other criteria of the natural order.
01:40:05.000Um, I can't wait to be a mother and I think I'll be a great mother.
01:40:28.000I also want to apologize to Rowing Millennial for going so hard and heated off of you because I actually really like you and I think you're really cool, even if I'm frustrated about a few things.
01:40:56.000And thank you to the chat for partaking.
01:40:58.000This had so much promise, but I hope it was entertaining.
01:41:02.000You came on this adventure with us, this complete and utter shit show of a live stream.
01:41:07.000Be sure to check out ContraPoints, Theron Meyer, Mr. Medoker, No Bullshit, Destiny, Roaming Millennial, and Nick Fuentes on their own channels.
01:41:14.000They all had their own unique thing to contribute to this that made it entertaining.
01:41:19.000As for the rest of you, I hope you all have a wonderful Saturday night.
01:41:23.000I'm probably never going to do this again, so savor this while you.