America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - SARGON OF AKKAD, TYT's HASAN PIKER, DESTINY, NICK F, & co-host ASMONGOLD - POLITICAL PODCAST

00:00:00.000 Okay, let's move on here.

00:00:02.000 Okay, here we go.

00:00:03.000 Okay, shoot, so sorry.

00:00:05.000 Okay, here we go.

00:00:06.000 Okay.

00:00:08.000 Tarabuck, please put the name plates on for each individual.

00:00:10.000 I gave you them beforehand.

00:00:11.000 On the left hand corner, we have Asmongold.

00:00:13.000 He's going to be the co host.

00:00:14.000 He's going to help me moderate, move along topics, and kind of let people know how much time they have left on the topic if we reach the end point.

00:00:24.000 So, welcome, Asmongold.

00:00:27.000 Thanks for having me.

00:00:28.000 Next to Asmongold, we have Destiny.

00:00:30.000 For those of you that don't know him, he's one of the original string personalities who has moved on from gameplay streams to Focus on a lot of political content, including debates and discussions on his live channel that typically pitches a left versus right sort of thing.

00:00:45.000 Destiny, would you like to explain what your political stances are?

00:00:49.000 Well, do you want to introduce everybody and then we can do that?

00:00:51.000 Well, I was going to do one by one so we could just do that.

00:00:53.000 And then after each person's introduction, yeah, sure.

00:00:57.000 I guess broadly, you would probably describe me in the United States as a progressive economically.

00:01:03.000 I don't know where I would necessarily fall.

00:01:04.000 I'm a defender of capitalism.

00:01:06.000 But I also believe that we need a lot of government intervention for capitalism.

00:01:08.000 So, either like a neoliberal or a social democrat, I want one of these terms, depending on what you want to take.

00:01:13.000 So, yeah.

00:01:13.000 And then generally, my argument for like progressive social issues.

00:01:16.000 So, making sure that everybody in society is nice and happy and accounted for.

00:01:20.000 Okay, great.

00:01:21.000 Thank you.

00:01:22.000 And yes, this, I am reading off something.

00:01:25.000 Okay.

00:01:25.000 Listen, I'm very nervous.

00:01:26.000 Like, I haven't felt this way for a while.

00:01:28.000 Oh, that's okay.

00:01:28.000 So, I'm reading off something.

00:01:29.000 If you keep talking about how nervous you are, it usually makes you less nervous.

00:01:29.000 Okay.

00:01:31.000 Yeah, true.

00:01:32.000 Okay.

00:01:33.000 Listen.

00:01:34.000 Listen.

00:01:34.000 Okay.

00:01:35.000 Okay.

00:01:36.000 Below Asmongold, we have.

00:01:38.000 Sargon of Akkad.

00:01:39.000 He's a popular YouTuber, sometimes known as a skeptic.

00:01:41.000 He's a member of the UK political party UKIP.

00:01:44.000 You know, did some.

00:01:45.000 Yeah.

00:01:46.000 Welcome, Sargon.

00:01:47.000 I really appreciate it.

00:01:47.000 Thanks for being here.

00:01:48.000 It's great to meet you.

00:01:50.000 My pleasure.

00:01:51.000 Would you like to tell us about your political stances?

00:01:55.000 I'm just an English liberal.

00:01:56.000 I think that the less the state interferes in people's lives, the better.

00:02:00.000 I think that.

00:02:02.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:02:03.000 I think that I should live in a sovereign country, which is why I'm a member of UKIP.

00:02:07.000 I'm for individual rights.

00:02:08.000 I'm.

00:02:09.000 Pretty socially liberal, and I'm quite fiscally liberal as well, to be honest.

00:02:15.000 I think capitalism is definitely the best alternative of the options available, the best choice of the options available.

00:02:24.000 Pretty much it.

00:02:25.000 Okay, thank you.

00:02:27.000 Next, we have to the right of destiny Hassan Abiy.

00:02:30.000 He's a former Young Turks contributor.

00:02:32.000 I'm still at the Young Turks, bro. 1.00

00:02:33.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:02:34.000 Damn. 1.00

00:02:35.000 This is a harsh way of telling you've been fired, man. 1.00

00:02:38.000 Live on air.

00:02:39.000 Sorry.

00:02:40.000 Hassan Abiy, he is a Young Turks contributor.

00:02:43.000 A socialist content creator who has recently started streaming on Twitch.

00:02:48.000 Wait, did you lie, Hassan?

00:02:50.000 Are you a socialist now?

00:02:51.000 That's not.

00:02:52.000 I mean, I say I'm a leftist, but I don't mind if people say socialist.

00:02:55.000 Well, why don't you explain where you are coming from then?

00:02:58.000 Like, what are your political affiliations?

00:02:59.000 Where are you coming from?

00:03:00.000 Yeah.

00:03:00.000 What do you think?

00:03:02.000 I'm broadly speaking an anti capitalist.

00:03:05.000 I understand that there are certain structural inefficiencies built into capitalism that create a lot of conflict.

00:03:15.000 And I think we need to address those problems, not just at the social level by advocating for social change, but slowly but surely through democratic procedures, ultimately give ownership back to the workers.

00:03:30.000 And, you know, that's my perspective.

00:03:33.000 Okay, that makes sense.

00:03:34.000 Thank you for being here.

00:03:35.000 Thanks for being here.

00:03:35.000 It's a pleasure having you on, Hassan.

00:03:38.000 And yeah, thank you.

00:03:39.000 Next, under Destiny and to the right of Sargon, we have Nick Fuentes.

00:03:42.000 Did I pronounce that correctly, Fuentes?

00:03:44.000 Yes, correct, correct.

00:03:45.000 Awesome, awesome.

00:03:46.000 We have Nick Fuentes.

00:03:47.000 He's a self described American nationalist who attended the Charlottesville rally and claims he had to leave Boston University because of subsequent threats.

00:03:55.000 Correct?

00:03:56.000 Correct.

00:03:57.000 Would you like to describe some of your political stances?

00:03:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:00.000 Sure, sure.

00:04:01.000 I also do a podcast, America First.

00:04:03.000 That's kind of old news trying to put that behind me.

00:04:06.000 But yeah, to describe my political views, I would call myself a reactionary, a nationalist, a paleoconservative.

00:04:14.000 If we're talking about the size and scope of government, I would probably say I'm basically indifferent to the size of government so long as the will of the people is executed, so long as virtue is upheld.

00:04:25.000 On economics, I would probably say I'm a capitalist.

00:04:28.000 Although with major skepticism, with major trepidation, because I think things have not really gone so well in the past couple of decades with capitalism.

00:04:40.000 So I am for a significant amount of regulation.

00:04:42.000 So that's about where I'm at.

00:04:44.000 Thank you.

00:04:44.000 Okay, great.

00:04:44.000 Thank you.

00:04:47.000 So before we start, let me, I know this is weird, but let me grab a Coke.

00:04:51.000 Okay.

00:04:52.000 I'm a little part.

00:04:53.000 Give me a second here.

00:04:53.000 Okay.

00:04:57.000 Okay.

00:04:58.000 All right.

00:04:58.000 Well, we'll go ahead and we'll get.

00:04:59.000 This started.

00:05:00.000 We'll get ready for the first topic.

00:05:02.000 We're going to give the first group of people about five minutes or so to give their opening thoughts, and then the other group can give their rebuttal, and we'll go from there.

00:05:10.000 We've got a number of topics set up for you guys, and we'll get ready for them as soon as the train is ready to go.

00:05:17.000 I am.

00:05:17.000 Oh, shoot.

00:05:20.000 Okay, give me. 0.95

00:05:20.000 Okay, shoot. 0.95

00:05:21.000 I forgot what.

00:05:22.000 Listen, I forgot what monitor this is on.

00:05:23.000 Give me a second here.

00:05:25.000 Okay, it's on.

00:05:26.000 Never mind, we're good, we're good.

00:05:27.000 Okay, here we go.

00:05:28.000 Sorry about that, boys.

00:05:29.000 Okay.

00:05:30.000 So, this first topic. 1.00

00:05:33.000 As most of us know, Blair White was supposed to be here with us.

00:05:36.000 But, you know, I got a last second, you know, in the time from a two hour cancellation.

00:05:40.000 So the first topic was, you know, we had it in here.

00:05:43.000 I wanted to get her thoughts on it and see what she thought and kind of get everyone involved.

00:05:46.000 Blair White is probably one of the least informed people on trans rights.

00:05:49.000 So it's probably better she's not here. 0.98

00:05:50.000 Don't worry.

00:05:51.000 Okay.

00:05:51.000 Well, since.

00:05:52.000 Well, that gives away the topic then.

00:05:52.000 Okay.

00:05:54.000 The first topic, obviously, we want to talk about.

00:05:55.000 Oh, I thought these were published.

00:05:56.000 I'm sorry.

00:05:58.000 Surprise.

00:05:59.000 So, yeah, the first one we want to talk about is the Trump obviously made a transgender ban.

00:06:05.000 To where transgender individuals are not able to serve into the military.

00:06:09.000 That becomes effective on, I believe, April 12th.

00:06:12.000 And there's been a lot of obvious pushback on this for a number of different reasons and people stating how much money trans people cost, et cetera.

00:06:23.000 And I think that we probably should start since we have the, this is kind of like their home team here, Destiny and Hassan.

00:06:31.000 Why don't we go ahead and let the out of state team begin?

00:06:35.000 And Nick and Sargon, if you guys want to give your opening thoughts.

00:06:39.000 On this subject?

00:06:42.000 Who wants to go first?

00:06:42.000 Sounds good.

00:06:43.000 Sargon, do you want to take the lead on this one?

00:06:45.000 Honestly, I actually don't have any particular feelings on the Trump transgender military ban. 0.99

00:06:50.000 I mean, joining the military isn't a right.

00:06:52.000 So, I mean, it's really down to the administration in charge, I would say.

00:07:00.000 Personally, I probably wouldn't.

00:07:02.000 But, I mean, I'm open to hearing arguments from both sides.

00:07:06.000 I'm really not invested in this one.

00:07:08.000 So, I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

00:07:10.000 Well, Nick, I'm sure is.

00:07:11.000 So, let's hear.

00:07:12.000 What do you think, Nick?

00:07:13.000 Absolutely.

00:07:14.000 That's a little rough.

00:07:15.000 A little rough, Sargon.

00:07:16.000 You're leaving me out to dry here.

00:07:17.000 A bit of a centrist.

00:07:18.000 That's okay.

00:07:19.000 I'm on the same side.

00:07:23.000 Okay.

00:07:23.000 Well, I'll try to convince you.

00:07:25.000 I'll try to win you over.

00:07:26.000 So, my feelings on this are basically ambivalent, also.

00:07:32.000 You know, I look at all these people who try to get involved in the military, and I just sort of scratch my head and wonder why. 0.87

00:07:37.000 You know, we look at women who want to join the military, we look at transgenders who want to join the military. 0.98

00:07:43.000 And I think, why should anybody want to be so gung ho and excited to do what?

00:07:48.000 To go fight for Israel in the Middle East?

00:07:50.000 To go and do all this other stuff abroad that really has nothing to do with our national interest?

00:07:55.000 I will say, however, that if we look at the end game, what is the mission?

00:07:59.000 What is the purpose of the military?

00:08:01.000 Well, the purpose of the military, well, I guess theoretically, what the purpose of the military ought to be is to defend the interests of the United States of America, foreign and domestic.

00:08:12.000 And I think that if you're looking at how we can fulfill that end, if we're looking at how we can fulfill that directive, we ought to have people that are the best and the most capable to perform those tasks.

00:08:22.000 And I'm sure probably the opposition here understands what my position is going to be on this, but. 1.00

00:08:27.000 Basically, I don't recognize the legitimacy of this gender dysphoria, transgender identity. 0.55

00:08:33.000 This is my position as a Catholic. 0.77

00:08:35.000 This is my position as a conservative.

00:08:37.000 I look at people who begin to transition either chemically or through surgery or even just superficially, changing their dress or something.

00:08:47.000 I look at that as somebody who has some kind of issue with early childhood development, probably somebody who perhaps is suffering from other issues mentally.

00:08:57.000 Now, I'm not going to say that everybody who does that is mentally ill.

00:09:00.000 Fortunately, we live in a country and we're on a streaming service where we recognize the rights of everybody.

00:09:05.000 So, sure, I guess in this current paradigm, everybody can basically do as they please.

00:09:10.000 But I feel that somebody who decides to embark on that kind of thing, you know, if you look at the surgery, it's barbaric and ghastly what they do to their own genitals or their own bodies.

00:09:20.000 If you look at the chemical components, again, it's very rough.

00:09:23.000 Anyone who decides to do that, I don't believe is in the frame of mind where they're able to go into a high stress environment.

00:09:30.000 You look at normal people who go into this high stress environment and they come out with PTSD or other kinds of issues.

00:09:36.000 I just don't think that's the best thing for what we're trying to achieve, whether that is the right thing we're trying to achieve, which is serving our own interests or serving somebody else's interests. 1.00

00:09:46.000 So while I am basically ambivalent, I do believe that if we're trying to have a military that has efficacy, that is effective in what it's trying to do, I don't believe that having transgenders involved is really going to advance that cause. 1.00

00:10:00.000 I don't think it's really going to facilitate that directive being achieved optimally. 1.00

00:10:04.000 So, I'm basically against it.

00:10:06.000 Do you think that it will actively work against it just for the, you know, to get down your position a little bit more?

00:10:12.000 I do.

00:10:13.000 I do believe it'll work against that.

00:10:15.000 All right.

00:10:15.000 Hassan, what do you think?

00:10:20.000 Yeah.

00:10:20.000 Wait, can I open on this if you don't want to?

00:10:22.000 This is one of my favorite topics.

00:10:24.000 I mean, yeah, I'm going to throw it up to Destiny in a second.

00:10:27.000 The only thing I was going to say is that, unfortunately, the way the military industrial complex is set up, the United States currently treats the United States military as a jobs program.

00:10:38.000 And the Department of Defense is the largest single body that hires the most trans people worldwide.

00:10:46.000 And the fact that Donald Trump, on a whim, has decided to ban transgender troops from serving and leaving out more than 12,000 active duty service members in the street without a future is kind of disrespectful.

00:11:07.000 But even beyond that, it is also not cost effective. 0.91

00:11:12.000 It actually costs more money to track down whoever is trans and kick them off service. 0.97

00:11:19.000 It costs, even if you were to allow all trans members to get gender confirmation surgery, it would cost a fraction of what it costs for the military to pay for Viagra. 0.96

00:11:31.000 So, and as far as combat readiness goes, medical professionals happen to disagree with Nick, but I'm sure.

00:11:39.000 Given the fact that he already said sneakily that normal is the opposite of trans during his conversation, that his perspective is a little bigoted and maybe a little misguided, too. 0.99

00:11:51.000 Isn't that just definitionally correct, though?

00:11:55.000 I should have said, I think normative would have been technically definitionally correct as opposed to.

00:12:00.000 I think normal would have been.

00:12:02.000 I think we can debate the definition of normal.

00:12:05.000 Is normal what's average or is normal what's acceptable?

00:12:09.000 It can go either way.

00:12:10.000 Destiny, what about you?

00:12:12.000 So, firstly, the premise that we have the best and most capable people in our military is already not true.

00:12:12.000 Yeah, okay.

00:12:16.000 It's volunteer military, right?

00:12:17.000 So, basically, some people volunteer if they pass whatever requirements we set for them to pass.

00:12:22.000 So, whatever your requirements are, coming out of basic training or whatever, background.

00:12:25.000 Test or whatever, as long as you pass that, you're good to go.

00:12:28.000 So, this was already studied by the Department of Defense.

00:12:31.000 Our military has already had transgender people in the military.

00:12:33.000 There's some, it's anywhere between like 1,000 to 10,000 people who are transgender, who are identified as transgender people, are in the military and they perform fine.

00:12:41.000 This idea that everyone's going to get PTSD or all these people are going to die in combat, 80% of military roles are non combat roles.

00:12:47.000 Like a lot of what our military does, like not all these people even deploy, you know, let alone actually see an active combat zone, let alone when you are deployed or even deployed into things that are even near combat zones.

00:12:56.000 There are plenty of jobs that could be filled occupationally in the military that are non combat roles.

00:13:01.000 I mean, for the other stuff, in terms of the other kind of loaded things like the surgeries, barbaric, or the chemical parts, I mean, I don't know.

00:13:08.000 I can only go by what the science says there.

00:13:09.000 And I mean, all of that is approved by the APA and it seems to be effective in helping transgender people live their lives.

00:13:14.000 So I don't know how that's relevant to any of the military stuff.

00:13:18.000 But yeah, I guess for the military stuff, most roles in the military are non combat and the effectiveness of transgender people has already been evaluated by the military and they've already been integrated into the military in an effective fashion.

00:13:27.000 I don't know why we would change that. 1.00

00:13:28.000 Weird executive orders. 1.00

00:13:29.000 Could you elaborate a little bit on what you said about the effectiveness of the transgender individuals?

00:13:34.000 So, for instance, so yeah, so in the military, there are tons of non combat roles, right?

00:13:34.000 Sure.

00:13:37.000 These are support roles.

00:13:38.000 These are, these can be things domestically.

00:13:40.000 There are just tons of these types of roles.

00:13:42.000 Transgender people already seem to be able to fill these roles and they do it in an effective manner.

00:13:46.000 So, for instance, one of the things I believe Trump said was that, well, you know, when you get transgender people in the military, they have all this gender dysphoria and it's ruining their lives and they need all the support and their help.

00:13:56.000 None of that was ever borne out in any of the research.

00:13:57.000 The military already did.

00:13:59.000 A lot of research related to transgender people to see if it was effective to have them in the military or if they were wasting a lot of money helping them transition and all of this stuff.

00:14:06.000 And none of that ever seemed to be substantiated.

00:14:08.000 It seemed like the integration of transgender people into the military was working pretty effectively.

00:14:12.000 Do you concede in any way that transgender individuals per capita would cost the military more than a normal individual or, excuse me, not normal, normative individual?

00:14:21.000 So per capita is kind of a hard way to say that. 0.87

00:14:24.000 Like if we were randomly selecting transgender people from society and throwing them into the military, then yeah. 0.99

00:14:29.000 But the people that make it into the military are already passing. 0.97

00:14:32.000 There's already a selection happening there.

00:14:34.000 These are people that have made it out of basic training, and these are people who have already been evaluated to be like good members serving in the military.

00:14:39.000 So once they've made it past whatever requirements they have to go through to get into the military, then yeah, then they're fine, sure.

00:14:45.000 So, Nick, do you think that them passing those different qualifications to be into the military grants them the ability to maybe have the government potentially pay more money for them?

00:14:55.000 Or do you think the means outweigh the ends outweigh the means or what?

00:14:59.000 I don't really care about the fiscal cost.

00:15:02.000 It's actually sort of interesting.

00:15:03.000 Well, maybe not ironic, but interesting that Hassan Piker would refer to the cost right out of the gate.

00:15:09.000 You know, my qualm about this was never about fiscal cost.

00:15:12.000 You know, people talk about, especially on my side, things costing a lot of money.

00:15:16.000 The government prints as much money as they need.

00:15:19.000 And so I tend to look at it from a.

00:15:20.000 What's the most common argument Republicans use when they don't want to seem like they're being bigoted?

00:15:25.000 And it's incorrect.

00:15:26.000 So I just wanted to put it out there.

00:15:28.000 I am, first of all, I'm an Afro Latino and a civil rights activist.

00:15:31.000 I don't really identify as Republican. 0.51

00:15:33.000 And it's.

00:15:34.000 It's sort of a shame that you would lump me in with them.

00:15:36.000 It's actually a little bit prejudiced, I think.

00:15:38.000 Well, we just had a left versus right debate, so it's understandable that I would address that perspective.

00:15:43.000 You can rationalize your bigotry all you want.

00:15:47.000 We should focus our discussions and our debates towards the opinions of other people that are on this show rather than the larger political parties that may or may not be associated with.

00:16:00.000 Can we be serious for a moment?

00:16:01.000 I think Hassan should apologize.

00:16:03.000 There are good people on both sides of that Charlottesville march, okay?

00:16:06.000 True?

00:16:06.000 No, you're right.

00:16:08.000 Apologies to all the Nazis. 0.70

00:16:09.000 Sorry, boys.

00:16:10.000 Well, Nick, you were actually at the Charlottesville thing, right?

00:16:13.000 Were you?

00:16:13.000 Correct.

00:16:14.000 Correct.

00:16:14.000 I was at Charlottesville.

00:16:15.000 We should finish the protest.

00:16:17.000 No, no, no. 1.00

00:16:18.000 We should finish the transgender thing. 1.00

00:16:20.000 No, we're going to. 1.00

00:16:21.000 And I just want to.

00:16:22.000 I have one at a time, please.

00:16:24.000 So, obviously, Nick, you said that you were Catholic.

00:16:27.000 Do you feel like your religious persuasions have any sort of.

00:16:30.000 You know, they educate your decisions or your opinions on transgender individuals at all?

00:16:34.000 And do you think that manifests the way that you feel about them serving in the military?

00:16:38.000 Of course.

00:16:39.000 Of course.

00:16:39.000 From a philosophical perspective, we believe that what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman is something that is greater than this sort of.

00:16:49.000 Ad hoc adjustment that a person could make in the middle of their life.

00:16:52.000 You know, I look at a man who decides to have, again, a barbaric, I will use that, it is a loaded term, a barbaric and ghastly surgery to move things around and snip things and put them inside out and all this other stuff.

00:17:04.000 And they can wear a dress and go on different hormones.

00:17:06.000 But we believe that sex and gender, number one, are the same thing.

00:17:10.000 But number two, are greater than these material adjustments that a person can make.

00:17:15.000 And moreover, we find that gender is deeper than the individual.

00:17:19.000 We find that gender does have with it certain.

00:17:22.000 Responsibilities do have with it certain natures and temperaments.

00:17:25.000 And so I basically reject this idea that gender is something that doesn't exist or it's so arbitrary that anybody can serve in the military or it could be changed.

00:17:34.000 You know, I guess it really lays bare this fundamental difference in what we believe about what gender is.

00:17:41.000 I think that's why it really is a greater debate because, and I'll point out the reason I'm basically indifferent to this issue is because, as Hassan and Destiny have pointed out, you're correct.

00:17:52.000 The military is this large bureaucratic.

00:17:55.000 Enterprise.

00:17:56.000 It does act as a big employer.

00:17:58.000 It is volunteer.

00:17:59.000 Most of the roles are non combat. 1.00

00:18:01.000 So, having transgender troops in the military, is that the end of the world for our operational capacity? 1.00

00:18:08.000 Frankly, I don't think so. 0.59

00:18:09.000 I think it is a symbolic issue.

00:18:10.000 And you look at Trump instituting the transgender military ban, of course, this is playing to his base.

00:18:15.000 Of course, this is not something I don't believe that should be the priority of the administration.

00:18:20.000 And you're right, probably the costs are high to adjust it.

00:18:23.000 But it is a symbolic issue.

00:18:25.000 It's symbolic about What our country is going to be, what the administration says the country is going to be, and personnel, procedural things are a big part of that.

00:18:35.000 So I think that's really the fundamental issue we're trying to get at.

00:18:38.000 Wait, can I ask you about.

00:18:39.000 Oh, okay.

00:18:40.000 I'm really curious. 1.00

00:18:41.000 Do you think women should be allowed to serve in the military? 0.99

00:18:43.000 I was actually about to ask the same question, but with gay people. 0.99

00:18:45.000 So was I.

00:18:47.000 Yeah.

00:18:47.000 So how do you feel about that, Nick?

00:18:50.000 Yeah, no, I think it should just be straight men.

00:18:53.000 Is there a particular reason why you don't think women should be able to serve or gay men should not be able to serve?

00:18:53.000 Really?

00:18:58.000 Yeah, well. 1.00

00:19:00.000 Well, we'll start with women, I guess. 1.00

00:19:00.000 Sure. 1.00

00:19:01.000 You know, it's actually kind of funny to me. 0.55

00:19:04.000 What kind of world do we want to live in where we're sending our daughters, sisters, mothers into the Middle East to get exploited? 0.86

00:19:11.000 Well, you were just talking about symbolism, which is precisely why I have an issue with it because I'm looking at it currently, as I described before, from the perspective of hiring practices.

00:19:19.000 It seems like you just want to go ahead and insert your talking points.

00:19:22.000 You want to hear what I'm going to say here because I'm going to lay out an argument.

00:19:24.000 No, I just want to make sure that you don't frame it in the way that you want to frame it.

00:19:27.000 Can I interject here?

00:19:29.000 As we've stated before earlier, Only 20 or so percentage of the population of the military even sees any combat.

00:19:37.000 So I do think that it could be.

00:19:38.000 Nick, do you feel like it's disingenuous for you to say that you're sending your wives and daughters out to war whenever less than half of them would ever even see any sort of threat at all?

00:19:50.000 I don't think it's disingenuous.

00:19:51.000 I'm actually not that familiar with U.S. military practice here.

00:19:55.000 Do women actually see frontline combat in the U.S. military? 1.00

00:19:58.000 They do.

00:19:58.000 That was greenlit very recently.

00:20:00.000 Yeah, of course.

00:20:02.000 So, you're right.

00:20:03.000 You're right.

00:20:03.000 Trans people, by the way.

00:20:04.000 Just for the record, trans people see combat as well.

00:20:07.000 Okay, thank you for that. 0.97

00:20:09.000 The point being is that if women are being sent. Overseas into these horrible conditions, I think that's actually shameful for a country to do. 0.98

00:20:18.000 And you say, well, there's these non combat roles where women can be in. 1.00

00:20:21.000 I don't believe women should be in the non combat roles either. 1.00

00:20:24.000 I don't think women, frankly, I don't think they should be in the business of government. 1.00

00:20:28.000 I believe that, again, and I talked about this with my Catholic values, this is where my position comes from, is informed by the fact that when you have, once you acknowledge that gender is distinct and different, once you understand that men and women, Of biological differences, which are physical, they're mental, temperamental. 1.00

00:20:46.000 I mean, there's far reaching distinctions between the two. 0.59

00:20:50.000 You must necessarily then recognize that there are consequences for their function and role in society.

00:20:56.000 We don't simply believe that we are, we're all humans, we're all pink on the inside.

00:21:00.000 The only difference is arbitrary genitalia, reproduction organs.

00:21:05.000 No, we believe that men and women, in their distinctions, have different capacities and therefore different functions.

00:21:10.000 So to see women going out and doing all these different things, I think that we should take care of our women.

00:21:16.000 I think that our women should be, frankly, raising the children. 0.92

00:21:19.000 They should be taken care of, not in these sorts of positions. 0.93

00:21:22.000 So I also think it has something to do with the dynamic when you have a mixed company in a bureaucratic institution. 1.00

00:21:29.000 You know, the military, I believe, should be a boys' club. 0.97

00:21:32.000 Maybe you can have women in other non combat jobs in the private sector or maybe even in the public sector. 0.96

00:21:37.000 But I believe that in the military, it should function in such a way that you have this brotherhood, you have this element where everybody's on the same page. 0.60

00:21:46.000 What tends to happen when women enter into a situation where it's formerly an all male space is it changes the dynamic.

00:21:53.000 And we witnessed this all over the place in many different formerly male dominated spaces.

00:21:58.000 We know that there is a dynamic that exists between men and women that does not exist between men and men.

00:22:03.000 And this kind of goes along with why we're so.

00:22:05.000 Do you have any data to back up and finish your point?

00:22:07.000 I don't really know.

00:22:08.000 I don't want to put you off, but you keep going on these tangents, and I'm afraid it always feels like it's just your kind of personal perspective and what you want society to look like.

00:22:18.000 Or, what you want the US military to look like?

00:22:20.000 And I would really be interested to find out what you're.

00:22:24.000 That is a very good question.

00:22:26.000 And I do bring up Hassan.

00:22:28.000 Nick, obviously, you are bringing up a lot of different assertions, right? 0.97

00:22:32.000 That women change the dynamic of a workplace, they change the way that the military would function.

00:22:38.000 And whether that's true or not true is, you know, it depends.

00:22:42.000 But do you have anything specifically, any empirical data or evidence that shows this, or is it just your personal observation?

00:22:50.000 Well, I basically reject the validity of empiricism over a priori kind of rationale, a priori justifications.

00:22:59.000 So, can you explain that a little bit more?

00:23:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:02.000 So, an a priori justification basically says a thing is true in itself.

00:23:06.000 A thing is true, and we basically know this because it's simply common sense.

00:23:11.000 So, I know Destiny and perhaps even Sargon are big believers.

00:23:15.000 Wait, I just have to interject for one quick second.

00:23:17.000 A priori and common sense are not even remotely similar to one another.

00:23:21.000 Keep going.

00:23:21.000 Let me finish.

00:23:22.000 Let me finish.

00:23:22.000 Yeah, go for it.

00:23:23.000 That's great.

00:23:23.000 That's great, Steve.

00:23:24.000 So basically, Steve and I'm sure Sargon and maybe even Hassan believe in this stuff where everything must be determined by a person in a lab coat.

00:23:32.000 Everything must be determined by a study.

00:23:34.000 We have to crunch the numbers.

00:23:36.000 I think we know.

00:23:37.000 I think we know our own nature.

00:23:38.000 I think we know from history.

00:23:40.000 I think we know from tradition what works, what does not work.

00:23:43.000 We're all human beings.

00:23:44.000 I think everybody knows exactly what I'm talking about.

00:23:46.000 So we could also look at all kinds of other studies.

00:23:49.000 I mean, there's a lot of things that suggest that men and women are biologically distinct.

00:23:53.000 I don't know if you need a study to demonstrate that, but maybe you do.

00:23:56.000 Biological distinction aside, I was asking about combat readiness or women serving in the military and whether there are negative consequences.

00:24:03.000 Your assertion wasn't just that men and women are different.

00:24:07.000 You also then have a fundamentally different perspective than both Destiny and I do in regards to the efficiency of women and men co mingling inside of the military or even in the public space or even in positions of government, apparently, which I didn't know you held out. 0.60

00:24:23.000 I think Nick's argument mostly is that the presence of women in these. 0.67

00:24:29.000 Sure, well, whatever you're talking about.

00:24:31.000 We got Ben Shapiro over here. 0.99

00:24:32.000 What he's trying to argue is the fact that women do change the dynamics. 0.98

00:24:36.000 So even if they're not necessarily affecting their own combat readiness and. 0.99

00:24:41.000 Even if they don't directly contribute to this, they do it indirectly by being present.

00:24:46.000 Is that correct?

00:24:46.000 Yeah, so basically correct.

00:24:48.000 I think this argument, we don't go anywhere here because we have to get a little bit more fundamental, right?

00:24:52.000 So Nick's positions on.

00:24:54.000 Hang on, Destiny.

00:24:55.000 Before you jump off, I actually am interested in Sans' answer to that. 1.00

00:24:59.000 Do you think that women don't change the social dynamic of male only spaces?

00:25:04.000 I don't think that that change in that social dynamic is actually yielding negative consequences. 0.85

00:25:10.000 And if you put up like rape statistics or some shit like that, That is not the fault of the women who are serving the military, but more so the fault of the lack of regulation or our culture surrounding regulations already exist. 0.87

00:25:24.000 Oh, that's actually a very good point, Hassan. 0.97

00:25:26.000 So you're saying that the problems that occur are not necessarily the result of the same sex as well. 0.81

00:25:32.000 It's not necessarily because of the women themselves, but the men that are causing the problems because of the women.

00:25:37.000 Now, men are causing the problems as well.

00:25:40.000 Men are causing the problems for themselves as well.

00:25:42.000 I'm saying these are like issues that exist.

00:25:44.000 Look, man, this happens in Warcraft guilds.

00:25:46.000 Like, I fully understand how this works.

00:25:47.000 It's very basic.

00:25:48.000 And I think that the argument that you're going to use, and correct me if I'm wrong, is you're going to use a pragmatic argument and say that even though this is true, you still think they should go with whatever works best.

00:25:58.000 Is that correct?

00:25:59.000 Or where are you on that subject?

00:26:02.000 Is that addressed to me?

00:26:03.000 Yes.

00:26:05.000 Who, me?

00:26:06.000 Okay.

00:26:06.000 Yes.

00:26:07.000 Yeah.

00:26:08.000 No, I'm not going with the pragmatic argument.

00:26:10.000 I'm arguing that, well, I'm arguing that you can show me a study that says it doesn't change its operational, whatever, and I'll tell you that it's.

00:26:17.000 It's politically motivated.

00:26:18.000 I'll tell you that what we know about gender, what we know about who we are, supersedes that.

00:26:23.000 I mean, these things are necessarily following from these conclusions. 0.72

00:26:27.000 And I think it's interesting because you asked Hassan, you said, do you believe, or I think it was Sargon who asked Hassan, do you believe that women change the dynamic? 0.87

00:26:34.000 And he jumped right into, well, maybe that's the case.

00:26:38.000 However, it shows that it doesn't change our operational readiness.

00:26:41.000 So if you concede that we have these biological distinctions, we have social distinctions.

00:26:47.000 Dynamics that change as a result, it necessarily follows that an all male military is different from a military with men and women. 0.81

00:26:56.000 And just simply look at the dynamic that is caused by introducing women to the military.

00:27:00.000 Can we say, without having to look at some fucking lab coat showing us, well, according to my calculations, can we say that the latter military with men and women and you have all these dynamics and relationships is more efficient than the former, than one which is full of men? 0.96

00:27:16.000 I don't think you can. 0.98

00:27:17.000 So I would.

00:27:19.000 I would wonder.

00:27:20.000 I want to hear.

00:27:21.000 Do you concede that?

00:27:23.000 Do you think the United States military, as it is today, is more efficient than the United States military when there were less women enlisted? 0.95

00:27:29.000 Because women have always served in some capacity. 0.98

00:27:31.000 Different times. 1.00

00:27:32.000 They've updated the more effort in some capacity.

00:27:34.000 But you're talking about efficiency, and yet you have nothing to put it up against.

00:27:39.000 Well, like, so I think beyond this, like, this is a silly talking point because I'm using this as an analogy for the world that Nick wants to build versus the world that I think we should exist in.

00:27:52.000 And we both understand this concept.

00:27:56.000 That's precisely why I think, like, combat readiness is only as good as a talking point.

00:28:01.000 But what we're talking about simply is like women working and coexisting alongside men as equals.

00:28:07.000 Or, same with trans men and trans women.

00:28:10.000 That's precisely why I'm talking about this. 1.00

00:28:12.000 Otherwise, I don't care about the military's imperialist mission of going out and fucking killing brown children so that some Halliburton executive can make money. 0.99

00:28:20.000 Yeah, I agree. 0.99

00:28:22.000 We both hate the military's current objectives and what it stands for.

00:28:27.000 I think we're on the same page there.

00:28:28.000 But I think that's actually the fundamental distinction.

00:28:32.000 You say, well, we don't want to live in the world Nick is building, we want to live in a world where we treat everyone equally.

00:28:37.000 And I'm saying that by the very nature of who we are, We are not equal.

00:28:42.000 We may be equal before the law and we're equal before God, but we are not equal.

00:28:46.000 And if we're not equal, if we have these distinctions, which are qualitative and quantitative, then it necessarily follows that we have to have a society where difference is allowed, where you have specialization, where you have people living in accordance with their own unequal, different, distinct nature.

00:29:03.000 And so it's actually you who wants to build a world.

00:29:06.000 I want to live in a world where it's conducive and it works alongside our nature.

00:29:11.000 Not going up against it.

00:29:12.000 You want to live in a world where we're going to bend the society, bend our nature to our will.

00:29:17.000 We will force everyone to be equal.

00:29:19.000 Even though equality has never existed in history, empirically, I mean, there's just in no way, shape, or form is there any evidence you talk about empiricism for equality, but because you think, according to your ideology, that this is the positive good, this is the vision we all must strive for, we are going to force society to its knees to bend it to our will.

00:29:39.000 And I just think that's folly.

00:29:40.000 I think that's.

00:29:41.000 Okay, so wait, Changes, right?

00:29:44.000 Okay.

00:29:45.000 I got to talk about this.

00:29:46.000 I got to.

00:29:46.000 Okay.

00:29:47.000 The problem is that right now, okay, this issue, we can't resolve this issue because these are natural extensions of our underlying philosophy, right? 0.82

00:29:53.000 So even if we could demonstrate to somebody like Nick, even if we could say, look, women serving in the military makes the military more efficient, Nick is going to say, well, women serving in the military are contrary to kind of like the baser nature of what a woman is, right? 0.84

00:30:04.000 Would you agree with that, Nick? 0.97

00:30:04.000 That even if women did make the military better, that doesn't necessarily mean you want them there because you don't think that's what their role in society ought to be, right? 0.97

00:30:10.000 Well, I would say that it probably wouldn't be able to be shown legitimately that they improve the military. 0.99

00:30:15.000 But yeah, even if you showed me a study that said something like that, I would say, yeah.

00:30:19.000 Yeah, so this, so this entire conversation is already kind of talking past the point, right?

00:30:22.000 So now, even if we could demonstrate, so I think it has been that there is trouble on integrating women into military because, you know, there's sexual harassment, there's rape stuff, stuff that doesn't necessarily happen when there's only men, although it's stuff still does, still does happen when there are men.

00:30:33.000 Um, what somebody like me or Hassan would argue was that because we're liberals, right?

00:30:36.000 That we would argue that building a society that enables people or empowers people to make decisions, um, relative, relative to what they want to do is more important than trying to force everybody into some kind of like naturalistic setting, right? 0.70

00:30:46.000 Like, well, women tend to have these features, men tend to have these features, therefore we should relegate them exclusively to those roles in society.

00:30:52.000 Most people, At least in liberal society, we are not okay with that.

00:30:56.000 Like, typically, the weird thing when you go down that kind of like that naturalistic route where you say, well, we ought to do what we were born to do, is we end up drawing very arbitrary lines in some places.

00:31:04.000 For instance, I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody in here regularly hunts for their food or grows their own crops, right?

00:31:09.000 You know, we're very small.

00:31:09.000 We have small, weak bodies.

00:31:10.000 We don't exercise as much as we probably should.

00:31:12.000 And the reason we don't is because we have other people in society that take care of that for us, right?

00:31:16.000 We don't necessarily have to follow any hardcore natural distinction in terms of what our bodies are designed to do because we've built a society that allows us to explore other options.

00:31:23.000 And all I do is, I merely, and I imagine Hassan as well, you just kind of extend that argument to other things as well, right?

00:31:28.000 Is it possible that if this was like a life or death survival scenario, that like a tall man might be better in the military than like a small man?

00:31:34.000 Yeah, sure.

00:31:35.000 But we don't live in life and death scenarios of every single aspect of our lives.

00:31:38.000 So we generally allow people to do things that make them happy.

00:31:41.000 That's usually what we prioritize over what their bodies are intended to do.

00:31:44.000 This is why we give insulin to people with diabetes and we don't let them die in the streets.

00:31:47.000 This is why we have farmers that grow food for people that otherwise couldn't hunt for it.

00:31:50.000 And it's why we enable people to make decisions in society that would otherwise make them happy, even if it's not 100% what they would have been born to do.

00:31:56.000 Are people happy in this society?

00:31:58.000 We have probably the freest, most liberal society in America today.

00:32:01.000 And tell me, You look at the suicide rate.

00:32:04.000 You look at the rate at which people are consuming antidepressants.

00:32:06.000 Do you really believe that given total and complete agency, absent tradition, absent the natural law, people are really happier than they were 100 years ago?

00:32:14.000 Because I would probably disagree with that.

00:32:16.000 And maybe people might say that people are less happy because they're forced to conform to certain expectations or Republicans or white supremacy.

00:32:25.000 But I think we all know that the pursuit of happiness ends in misery.

00:32:29.000 The pursuit of satisfaction, of fulfillment, living in accordance with our nature is what affords people happiness.

00:32:35.000 That deeper happiness, that deeper satisfaction, that people are acting according to their teleological purpose, people having a purpose.

00:32:44.000 So, for example, I would posit that a mother who has five children and took time to raise them and know them and rear them in the way that she wanted to according to her morals, I imagine that that mother is probably more happy than a 20 year old girl who decides that at her peak childbearing age she's going to get educated and have a career and she's going to go make spreadsheets for something.

00:33:08.000 Do you think that they didn't know any better?

00:33:10.000 Yeah, I do.

00:33:11.000 I think it was completely so.

00:33:13.000 You know better than they do?

00:33:14.000 It was a minority argument quite frequently, and yet you don't want to admit that women may personally feel, perhaps personally feel, that they want to also participate in society in meaningful ways? 1.00

00:33:27.000 They're misguided. 0.97

00:33:29.000 I don't disagree when you say stuff like we are losing our sense of purpose and whatnot, but I think that's a consequence of alienation.

00:33:36.000 Wait, wait.

00:33:37.000 You think people should have the right to be misguided because it's not necessarily.

00:33:40.000 Even if you accept all of these things to be true, I mean, why are you, why are you, like, he's just saying that they're misguided.

00:33:49.000 No, I understand that.

00:33:50.000 I'm following, he's building on the premise, and yeah, the premise of them being misguided. 0.68

00:33:54.000 Do you think that they should be forced or, yeah, basically forced into fulfilling these different gender roles?

00:33:59.000 Before we continue, before we continue this, if someone's on a point, let them finish.

00:34:03.000 If you'd like to rebuttal, please let them finish all the way.

00:34:05.000 And this goes for everybody here, please.

00:34:07.000 Thank you.

00:34:07.000 Um, Aswin, continue.

00:34:10.000 Yeah, um, I was asking, like, obviously. 0.97

00:34:13.000 People can do, like they can be a mother of five or they can do spreadsheets.

00:34:18.000 And I think the question here, and what this ties back to with the transgender military ban, is the fact that they actually don't have that choice.

00:34:26.000 And do you think that it's fair in a free society to prevent people from doing what they want to do? 0.76

00:34:33.000 That's a great question.

00:34:34.000 And I think, and I'm going to answer this question directly, the problem with this kind of idea is that we at once want a culture where People are encouraged to make the right decisions, but maybe they have a little bit of liberty to maneuver outside that.

00:34:49.000 And this is a pretty open ended question because the question is at what point do you say you have so much liberty that you get a society like we have today?

00:34:57.000 Because I would say, for example, today, I think a lot of people who come at this issue where I come from would say that we have a society that is corrupt, which is misguided, which is to a great extent, there's a lot of evil, there's a lot of misery, which is self inflicted.

00:35:10.000 And we would say, well, on the one hand, we would like a little bit of liberty.

00:35:14.000 At what point backwards in history can we trace back the moment when it led to this inevitable consequence where it's a free for all?

00:35:22.000 Everybody's making the wrong choices.

00:35:24.000 So, I would probably say you look at maybe like 60 years ago, for example.

00:35:29.000 And although there were not laws against certain things, there was a culture which discouraged people from sort of stepping outside of line. 0.99

00:35:37.000 I think that's probably what we have to have.

00:35:39.000 But I don't think you're able to do that without a long tradition of these traditions and natural instincts and so forth being put into the legal code.

00:35:48.000 So, it's a very tricky issue.

00:35:50.000 Well, I don't think it's real quick.

00:35:52.000 I'll get the opposing thoughts here.

00:35:54.000 Destinir Hassan, if you'd like to respond to that, please go ahead and we'll wrap this up.

00:35:57.000 Hassan, Destinir.

00:35:58.000 Yeah, sure.

00:35:59.000 I don't necessarily, yeah, I don't think this is necessarily a tricky issue.

00:36:02.000 It just like, well, like, unfortunately, like, this conversation, we're talking past each other because there are more fundamental things that need to be resolved, right?

00:36:08.000 But like, my answer is always going to be that people should be allowed to fail rather than forced to be relegated into some role that society has predetermined is optimal for them.

00:36:16.000 That generally in Western society, like, for instance, you talk about like a mother having five kids is happier than a CEO or whatever.

00:36:22.000 That may or may not be true, but we would say a woman should be allowed to choose what she wants to do.

00:36:25.000 Same thing with any man, right?

00:36:26.000 If a man is born and he happens to be a little bit, You know, more powerful than another man by the time he goes through puberty for whatever reason, we wouldn't tell that man, you know, stop working on computers.

00:36:34.000 You need to go to the mines and work because, you know, you're a stronger man.

00:36:37.000 We generally in liberal society let people make these decisions because that's just the thing we've decided to value.

00:36:42.000 I mean, I guess we can go fundamental and try to argue on, I guess, more collectivist stuff versus like liberal stuff.

00:36:47.000 But that seems to be the case that we've made today.

00:36:52.000 This idea that we've been like on this inevitable path towards destruction, you know, solely due to liberalism, I don't know if that's necessarily true, right?

00:37:00.000 You know, you could argue that capitalism, for instance, is the result of a lot of these things.

00:37:03.000 The fact that we prioritize profits and companies over anything related to happiness in society probably encourages a lot of people that aren't happy. 0.71

00:37:10.000 The explosion of technological growth is something that also has probably gone against a lot of people's happiness, people's obsessive use of Facebook or other social medias that kind of fuck with their heads and whatnot.

00:37:20.000 Now, maybe in your society, you would argue that you have the ability to legislate against that harder.

00:37:24.000 You would do something like make social media illegal if it was contrary to a society or something.

00:37:28.000 But I don't think that most people, in at least liberal societies today, would be okay with that.

00:37:31.000 The idea that some, essentially like a Catholic dictator, Or a theologian would kind of dictate to them, you know, this is what you ought to do in society.

00:37:38.000 You ought not be allowed to engage in this because it's against, like, the natural order or the natural role of what humans ought to do.

00:37:43.000 I don't think Muskie would be very satisfied with that type of society.

00:37:46.000 Well, the trick really is Can I ask a question?

00:37:50.000 Please let Sargon go.

00:37:51.000 Yeah, so do you think that there is any kind of social responsibility destiny?

00:37:58.000 To who and for what?

00:37:59.000 To the civilization that we've inherited, to the future of that civilization.

00:38:06.000 This is getting real financial.

00:38:07.000 So, I would argue that you have some responsibility to participate in society in a way that's not detrimental to other people.

00:38:14.000 But I mean, as long as you're not necessarily hurting other people, then I think that for the most part, your rights should be respected to do what you want.

00:38:20.000 But what if this actually leads to the end of the society?

00:38:24.000 Is there any moral.

00:38:27.000 What do you mean by end of society?

00:38:28.000 Like humans go extinct or like we lose a war?

00:38:30.000 I mean, not humans, but like that society in particular.

00:38:33.000 I mean, I guess at some point we're going to talk about birth rates.

00:38:37.000 So. 1.00

00:38:37.000 Let's assume that women just decide they're not going to have children. 1.00

00:38:42.000 I mean, I think I would be that's a rough one, but I think I would be more okay with that than saying that, like, you are going to become the birthers and now you need to have children. 0.95

00:38:53.000 I mean, it's interesting, like, Nick posits this idea that people have these natural roles that they want to fill, but you know, in the World War II era, you know, it was attempted in several countries to incentivize people to have more children. 0.93

00:39:04.000 You know, people offered these massive payouts to people with more children.

00:39:06.000 There were penalties if you didn't have enough.

00:39:08.000 And it just, Don't work.

00:39:09.000 Like, given the upgrade, it does work.

00:39:12.000 In Denmark, they did just an ad campaign where they just encourage people look, Denmark's birth rates are going down, have kids.

00:39:19.000 And there was like a 5% spike in the first year. 0.93

00:39:22.000 It does work.

00:39:23.000 It's all about persuading people is important.

00:39:26.000 And if you think that your civilization is a good thing, then how is continuing that civilization not also a good thing?

00:39:34.000 How is it not a moral responsibility?

00:39:37.000 Well, that's a really heavy question on whether or not you have a moral responsibility to supersede an individual person's liberty in order to further the human race by forcing them to have children.

00:39:46.000 I'm not saying it supersedes your liberty.

00:39:47.000 I'm saying it gives you a duty and obligation.

00:39:50.000 Sure.

00:39:50.000 Also, I'm uncomfortable on the empirical grounds.

00:39:52.000 I don't know about the Denmark thing, but I know that in World War II, like, I know that there were several countries that tried to heavily incentivize people to have children and it failed.

00:40:00.000 Sure.

00:40:00.000 It never worked.

00:40:01.000 But in Denmark recently, it did work.

00:40:03.000 Okay.

00:40:05.000 Denmark's birth rates are still below replacement.

00:40:07.000 It's 1.7 on births per woman.

00:40:09.000 Yeah, I'm aware.

00:40:10.000 But there was an increase.

00:40:10.000 Okay.

00:40:13.000 So I think that culturally, we could just have a cultural norm that it is the right thing to do, get married and have children, right?

00:40:21.000 I mean, you could.

00:40:23.000 But I mean, like, you're essentially saying that culturally, we should push people to do things.

00:40:28.000 That dramatically alter the course of their lives that they might not necessarily choose on their own.

00:40:32.000 And I'm really uncomfortable with that type of push.

00:40:35.000 Unless you can make this.

00:40:36.000 But we'll do that anyway.

00:40:39.000 Hopefully, not to that extent.

00:40:40.000 Or can you give me an example?

00:40:41.000 What do you mean by that?

00:40:42.000 Well, I mean, culturally, we push people not to use certain naughty words.

00:40:47.000 We've got lots of cultural characters there.

00:40:49.000 Stargon knows all about that one, right?

00:40:51.000 Sure, but no one's pushing it.

00:40:52.000 I'm going to say the N word.

00:40:55.000 I'm talking about in terms of having dramatic impacts on people's lives.

00:40:58.000 Yeah, we push people not to.

00:41:00.000 Do you think that not using dirty words has the same impact on you as pushing somebody towards having a child?

00:41:05.000 Maybe.

00:41:06.000 Who knows?

00:41:07.000 Okay, if you legitimately believe that, then I can't believe it.

00:41:09.000 I think that we're talking about two different things, right?

00:41:12.000 Not letting people say the N word is less substantial than forcing them into having a child.

00:41:19.000 No one is suggesting that anyone can be forced by cultural factors. 0.96

00:41:23.000 But there's definitely a cultural push in that direction.

00:41:28.000 And I really do think that we are at the point where we have to start considering is Western civilization worth continuing?

00:41:35.000 Because, I mean, we're getting to the point where it might not continue unless we actually make those decisions.

00:41:41.000 And it is essentially, in a way, a kind of an excess of liberty that has done this.

00:41:48.000 Technology has done this to us.

00:41:50.000 It's actually freed us from all of the necessary bonds that we had in previous eras because most people just weren't free enough to be able to choose a life without a family or without having the various conditions thrust upon them by nature.

00:42:06.000 So, would you take back time and go back to an era where technological developments weren't at the place that it's at and people weren't as economically stable, I guess, as they are on average in developed Western nations in an effort to ensure that the birth rates are similar?

00:42:24.000 How much do you personally, Sargon, care about protecting the Western race in a similar fashion to Nick?

00:42:31.000 I just want to understand and distinguish your thoughts from his.

00:42:33.000 I don't think that he ever said that.

00:42:34.000 Okay, so I'm not really interested in answering that question, Hassan, because it's obviously loaded and.

00:42:39.000 No, no, no. 0.61

00:42:39.000 Points. 0.61

00:42:40.000 I don't think you agree with Nick.

00:42:42.000 That's why I'm trying to make the distinction here.

00:42:44.000 I'm not really interested in people like that because it's never going to happen, right?

00:42:49.000 But the thing that we can talk about, and this isn't a racial question, this is a civilizational question. 0.99

00:42:57.000 I mean, the idea that American civilization somehow excludes black people is ridiculous. 0.98

00:43:02.000 They've been there from virtually day one. 0.99

00:43:04.000 That was not a good point.

00:43:08.000 Just because they've been there from day one, I'm pretty sure if you came over as a slave, you probably feel Pretty excluded from society.

00:43:13.000 Just the fact that you were there probably doesn't make you feel very inclusive.

00:43:15.000 No, they had a place in society.

00:43:17.000 It wasn't a good place, but they were.

00:43:19.000 But generally, when somebody says somebody is inclusive, they don't necessarily mean just a place.

00:43:19.000 Okay, sure.

00:43:23.000 I never said inclusive.

00:43:25.000 You said they were included.

00:43:26.000 I thought you said included.

00:43:27.000 My bad.

00:43:27.000 Well, they were a part of it.

00:43:29.000 No, but inclusive is a particular ideologically loaded word.

00:43:32.000 Yeah, it is.

00:43:33.000 It means something to progressives.

00:43:35.000 They were still a part of that society and they had a particular role and it wasn't a good role.

00:43:38.000 And I completely agree, obviously, with the abolition of slavery and Jim Crow and all this sort of nonsense. 0.79

00:43:45.000 But the point is, from the position we're at now, Western birth rates are actually declining quite rapidly.

00:43:50.000 And it looks like.

00:43:52.000 That this could actually be a bad thing in the long run.

00:43:54.000 I mean, so the question is, is our society worth continuing?

00:43:58.000 And then it's like, okay, well, how do we continue in society?

00:44:00.000 Well, we have to make the voluntary choice to have, you know, about at least two or three children each.

00:44:05.000 So is that worth us doing?

00:44:06.000 Is it a good idea?

00:44:07.000 Because if it is a good idea, if we do think that maybe the West actually figured morality out better than the rest of the world, we do have an obligation to keep that going.

00:44:16.000 Because otherwise, we're going to get people who are not believers in Western values, who do not come from Western cultures, who are just simply going to exist longer than we will.

00:44:25.000 And we'll basically forget about us when we're gone.

00:44:28.000 I'm super curious.

00:44:29.000 Where does that obligation to continue society come from?

00:44:32.000 Our moral judgment that our society is a good society.

00:44:35.000 Where do those moral judgments come from?

00:44:37.000 Because if we're going to make this argument, we've got to go real foundational here.

00:44:40.000 We, our own moral perspectives.

00:44:42.000 So let's say that you have a family, and this family, I'm sorry, I say family, a husband and wife, okay?

00:44:48.000 These two people want to be programmers.

00:44:50.000 You think that you have the moral authority to tell them, no, you are going to have children because you have to, because we have an obligation to continue Western society.

00:44:58.000 Or.

00:45:00.000 Well, okay, okay.

00:45:00.000 Let me soften that a little.

00:45:02.000 Let's say that you think that you have a society full of people that could better allocate themselves into jobs where they would be personally happier.

00:45:07.000 Do you think that you have the moral authority to push so much kind of cultural norms to these people that some of them decide to have children instead?

00:45:15.000 I think that we can have people who procreate and work at the same time.

00:45:20.000 Well, yeah, but it seems like given the option to choose to have children, people seem not to if they have the ability not to.

00:45:25.000 That seems to be, I mean, for all that Nick talks about like natural choices, that seems to be naturally what happens.

00:45:30.000 If you look at countries as living up more.

00:45:32.000 It's absolutely like that's an outcome of the current economic climate.

00:45:37.000 No, This is like a very well observed phenomenon.

00:45:40.000 As countries enter first world status, people just have less children.

00:45:43.000 They don't need to have as many children to work. 0.99

00:45:44.000 Except for Israel. 1.00

00:45:45.000 Except for Israel. 0.96

00:45:46.000 Israel's birth rate's going up, but never mind that there are still a God willing. 0.86

00:45:51.000 God willing. 0.96

00:45:52.000 One at a time. 1.00

00:45:54.000 For one second, we cannot focus on fucking Jewish people. 1.00

00:45:56.000 I know it's really hard for you, Nick, but let's keep it going. 1.00

00:45:58.000 Hold on, hold on.

00:45:59.000 One at a time, please.

00:46:00.000 Hold on, hold on.

00:46:01.000 One at a time, please.

00:46:01.000 Before we get fully into foundational philosophy, I just want to, I really want to understand.

00:46:07.000 What you mean when you talk about Western civilization, can you point to a specific example that does not include other cultures and other civilizations and other technological achievements created in, like, the Islamic culture, for example, in the golden age of Islam, that the Western civilization has backed on, that has built itself upon?

00:46:30.000 Hassan, I'm not saying that Western civilization has not been influenced by other civilizations.

00:46:36.000 It's not just influence.

00:46:37.000 I mean, this is how it works.

00:46:38.000 Like, we've always had globalism.

00:46:40.000 Like, we've always had globalization.

00:46:42.000 We've always, as a consequence of trade.

00:46:45.000 People have always talked to each other and traded with one another and fought with one another.

00:46:48.000 I agree.

00:46:49.000 Humans move.

00:46:50.000 Yes, I agree.

00:46:51.000 Okay.

00:46:52.000 When you talk about the preservation of the world. 0.95

00:46:54.000 Let me interject, Hassan. 0.55

00:46:55.000 Hold that thought one second.

00:46:56.000 And you talk about birth rates.

00:46:58.000 What?

00:46:58.000 Let me interject real quick.

00:47:00.000 On Hassan, please continue.

00:47:02.000 Let's wrap this up and get to the next topic.

00:47:03.000 I think we've really gone off on a tangent here.

00:47:05.000 Dude, I've been able to finish.

00:47:07.000 Not you.

00:47:08.000 I'm referring to everyone else, not just you.

00:47:09.000 You continue.

00:47:10.000 Finish your point. 1.00

00:47:11.000 I know your chat likes spamming fucking Pepega and shit when I'm talking, but holy fuck. 1.00

00:47:14.000 Let me just, like, Get one thing out. 1.00

00:47:16.000 I don't put it.

00:47:16.000 No.

00:47:17.000 Continue.

00:47:17.000 Okay.

00:47:17.000 There you go.

00:47:18.000 All right.

00:47:21.000 More importantly, the thing that I'm trying to understand.

00:47:27.000 Look, why are we trying to preserve civilization or Western civilization or why are we trying to make sure that mankind continues is an interesting conversation, I guess.

00:47:36.000 Maybe it's not to me.

00:47:37.000 What I'm specifically trying to understand right now is that why we're talking about birth rates without talking about the actual factors that contribute to birth rates declining.

00:47:46.000 We know that it's technological achievements, is one of them.

00:47:48.000 Socioeconomic status is one of them.

00:47:50.000 And we see this with like.

00:47:51.000 Immigrant cultures that are also coming in, or immigrants that are coming into like American society and integrating into American society, and by the third generation, completely adapting and their birth rates adjusting to the existing like ethnic groups that are already living in America or in Western civilization in general.

00:48:12.000 This is consistent across time and it's consistent in all of these other countries.

00:48:16.000 So, when we talk about like the declining of the birth rates, it's not a matter of like other people are coming in and replacing the original like ethnicity. 0.98

00:48:25.000 Of that country, it's more so that people are actually fucking less, quite frankly, because they have more access to technology and they're wealthier and they get, you know, they use condoms and shit. 0.82

00:48:36.000 So, what do you want to do? 0.98

00:48:37.000 How do you want to reverse that if you want to actually reverse that?

00:48:40.000 Hang on, hang on. 0.90

00:48:42.000 I don't really care about the ethnicity. 0.74

00:48:44.000 It's not really the question, right?

00:48:45.000 Because what you've identified correctly is that this is a malaise that is going to affect humanity eventually when all nations will eventually reach a sort of level of technological expertise and wealth where.

00:48:58.000 The question is really do we have a responsibility to what we've inherited to pass that down to someone, or are we allowed to be selfish enough to be the end point of that?

00:49:16.000 That's a big question.

00:49:18.000 Yeah.

00:49:18.000 Are we going to move on to the next topic?

00:49:21.000 I think that, I mean, unless Destiny or Hassan has anything to add, let's just go ahead and go to the next question.

00:49:27.000 Destiny or Hassan? 0.99

00:49:29.000 The summary of my point, like, fuck, Nick said so many dumb things that I didn't get to respond to. 0.99

00:49:33.000 The idea that, like, that earlier statement, this is like a really common thing about, like, do we really want to send our wives and daughters off to die in war? 0.99

00:49:39.000 I mean, do we want to send our husbands and sons off to die in war?

00:49:41.000 Like, nobody wants to go die in war. 0.99

00:49:43.000 Like, that's a really dumb point, I think. 0.95

00:49:44.000 That's not true. 0.98

00:49:45.000 I think there are people who absolutely are fine with dying in war.

00:49:48.000 Well, wait.

00:49:49.000 In America, they already make those decisions, though, by joining the military.

00:49:49.000 Yeah.

00:49:51.000 Women are more delicate. 1.00

00:49:53.000 Could you imagine if an intruder broke into your home and you sent your wife down there with a baseball bat or a handgun? 1.00

00:49:58.000 I mean, if I was married to, like, Rhonda Rousey, she'd have a much better time against.

00:50:01.000 Than I would.

00:50:02.000 I mean, it depends on who it is.

00:50:05.000 I'm just stating facts here, man. 0.99

00:50:08.000 I mean, looking at you, I'm not talking shit, but we're both pretty fucking small people. 0.96

00:50:10.000 There's a decent chance that whichever women you and me wind up with will probably be more equipped to defend their houses than we would be. 0.98

00:50:15.000 We're just going to refer to Rhonda Rousey. 1.00

00:50:18.000 I know most women and the average women are Rhonda Rousey. 0.98

00:50:22.000 The average woman is probably around your same size still, Nick, and probably maybe a little bit bigger. 0.99

00:50:26.000 So I wouldn't be talking this big shit, okay? 0.99

00:50:28.000 I don't think he's going to fly with your audience. 0.98

00:50:31.000 My friend, you really want to go there? 0.97

00:50:32.000 I don't give a fuck about my audience. 0.89

00:50:34.000 I think my audience is probably fantasized by other stuff than that. 0.98

00:50:36.000 Wow, I don't know, man.

00:50:38.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:50:39.000 I look like Chank's nephew, but this stuff really doesn't fly with a young girl. 1.00

00:50:42.000 Good one, Nick. 1.00

00:50:43.000 Good one, Booger Nick.

00:50:45.000 Calm down.

00:50:46.000 Oh my god, make sure.

00:50:48.000 Okay, calm down. 0.99

00:50:50.000 Before we ran into the fucking at home, let's go to the next topic. 1.00

00:50:55.000 Let Destiny finish. 1.00

00:50:56.000 We'll get one rebellion.

00:50:57.000 We'll move on.

00:50:58.000 My point, real quick, wasn't to body shame Nick because I included myself in that for a reason, right?

00:51:01.000 I'm a pretty small person. 0.54

00:51:02.000 I mean, it might be that a woman could defend a house better than me. 0.97

00:51:04.000 I'm not entirely sure. 1.00

00:51:05.000 I wouldn't like, but again, I would make that decision based on the individual situation, right?

00:51:09.000 And the way that a liberal would.

00:51:11.000 Now, I wouldn't like hardcore, I wouldn't look to naturalism or open a Bible passage to tell me who ought to be defending our property.

00:51:16.000 In general, I don't think that I want a society where my decisions are hardcore relegated to me from a top down approach, whether that's a governmental system or a theocratic system or some other moral arbiter or moral police, I guess, telling me what I ought to do.

00:51:31.000 I think that generally in a liberal society, I'm going to be allowed to make those decisions, and I think other people should be allowed to make those decisions.

00:51:35.000 And if you want to make it, can I respond to that?

00:51:39.000 Honestly, these are really great points, and I wish we had more time to dwell on them.

00:51:44.000 But the thing is, society itself is kind of the moral arbiter.

00:51:48.000 There isn't really any independent moral decision making, really, in society.

00:51:53.000 So, I mean, at the end of the day, you're constrained by that whether you like it or not.

00:51:58.000 Yeah, but we're talking about how you perform that society, right?

00:52:00.000 Yeah, but again, it really does come down to the sort of should we be able to just end society?

00:52:07.000 Is that a responsible thing to do?

00:52:08.000 Well, because it seems to have been a good thing that we were handed to us.

00:52:12.000 Yeah, but if society would have ended before us, then we would have never even been here to not have had it.

00:52:16.000 Yeah, we're all going to survive our things.

00:52:19.000 They had a responsibility that they fulfilled.

00:52:20.000 Do you have one that you should fulfill?

00:52:22.000 You've got kids, I mean, Steve.

00:52:22.000 And you have.

00:52:24.000 Yeah, I mean, I have a responsibility to my son, but I don't know if I have a responsibility to like my great, grandkids to make sure society still exists.

00:52:30.000 That means making my own life easier.

00:52:31.000 Well, obviously, you won't have that option.

00:52:32.000 That's not something you can do.

00:52:34.000 Well, but that's kind of what you're talking about right now, right?

00:52:36.000 Should we enact policies in society to encourage people to continue to do that?

00:52:38.000 No, I don't know.

00:52:39.000 I'm not talking about policies at all.

00:52:40.000 Because I'm completely with you on the sort of the big state argument regarding this.

00:52:44.000 But the question really is about what we as a society do.

00:52:46.000 Like Hassan earlier said, you know, I think that women should have like a full role in society.

00:52:51.000 It's like, Hassan, women dominate society and always have done since the Dawn of time. 0.99

00:52:57.000 That's another point. 1.00

00:52:59.000 So it's like this whole thing.

00:53:02.000 How much do you think political voice matters?

00:53:04.000 Well, it depends on what you're talking about, doesn't it?

00:53:06.000 But society is something that happens separately from society.

00:53:08.000 Do you think that's important?

00:53:10.000 The right to vote or the right to actually earn your own?

00:53:13.000 That's not society. 0.91

00:53:15.000 That's politics.

00:53:16.000 That's the state itself.

00:53:17.000 You're not talking about society. 1.00

00:53:18.000 Society is like women taking the kids to a creche or something. 1.00

00:53:22.000 Some kind of any clubs or anything like this.

00:53:25.000 Social groups that people live in.

00:53:27.000 I mean, honestly, at this point, it's men who we have to start worrying about actually being engaged in society because men are the ones checking out and just getting minimum wage jobs, drinking beer, playing Xbox, and living with each other well into their 30s, like yourself, probably, in fact.

00:53:46.000 You're the one who's not going out and engaging in society, are you?

00:53:49.000 What clubs do you go to?

00:53:51.000 Are you part of a bowling club or something?

00:53:53.000 And this is genuinely a problem. 0.96

00:53:56.000 And usually, yeah, the government was the purview of men because. 0.81

00:54:00.000 I mean, hell, honestly, mate, it was a way of getting them to do something because they become wasteful and destructive if they don't.

00:54:07.000 But it's one of the things that's important. 1.00

00:54:09.000 Women's participation in other marginalized communities' participation in society greatly predicated on how much political power they had that gave them access to even join these sorts of clubs to begin with. 0.79

00:54:18.000 Unless you assume that women's role in society is just to be the caretaker, and that they're going to be the ones doing that, you have to realize that political action in this respect is incredibly important for women, and then they were able to achieve that only recently. 0.96

00:54:33.000 So obviously, they didn't have that same kind of.

00:54:35.000 We're not talking about politics.

00:54:36.000 We're talking about society, social groups, things that are outside of the state.

00:54:41.000 Okay.

00:54:41.000 Did you not hear the first part of what I just said?

00:54:43.000 Sorry, I missed the.

00:54:44.000 Also excluded from participating in certain activities.

00:54:47.000 Without political power, they were not able to actually go out and open these environments so that they could also participate in them, including the workforce.

00:54:56.000 So, can you give me an example?

00:54:58.000 It's unfortunately a slow and really draining process.

00:55:02.000 But historically, what you're saying is untrue unless you assume. 0.72

00:55:06.000 That women's only participation in society is child rearing and taking care of children. 0.56

00:55:13.000 I don't think you understand what I mean when I say society. 1.00

00:55:17.000 The collective action of groups of people is society, right?

00:55:21.000 And each individual is a member of usually several different groups for several different reasons at different points in their lives. 0.95

00:55:29.000 And women have always been the driving force of this.

00:55:33.000 Because men, as you say, men were the ones who were generally involved in politics, which is something different.

00:55:37.000 Now women are also involved in politics. 0.88

00:55:39.000 And frankly, society is declining.

00:55:42.000 The actual sort of health of the society, like, Think about like in, was it World War I or II, where they went around giving out white roses and stuff like this.

00:55:50.000 You know, that's not going to happen now.

00:55:52.000 No one's going to, there's not going to be any kind of social pressure. 1.00

00:55:54.000 All the social pressure was always driven by women. 1.00

00:55:57.000 And that's not a bad thing or anything like that. 1.00

00:55:59.000 It's actually a very good thing.

00:56:00.000 But these are aspects of civilization that are kind of falling away now.

00:56:06.000 And the question is, was it a good thing that we had them?

00:56:10.000 But I mean, I'm happy to move on to the next.

00:56:12.000 Oh, yeah.

00:56:14.000 Let's talk about Donald Trump.

00:56:16.000 Well, no, sorry.

00:56:16.000 How about that?

00:56:18.000 Let's see.

00:56:19.000 Since Sargon and Nick started the topic, let's allow Destiny and Hassan to.

00:56:25.000 Oh, you're right.

00:56:25.000 Is there anything else?

00:56:26.000 If you guys want to have any closing statements, please go ahead and we'll move to the next topic.

00:56:26.000 Yeah.

00:56:32.000 Destiny or Hassan?

00:56:34.000 I mean, this is like a whole other bag of worms. 0.81

00:56:36.000 I mean, the idea that society, first of all, even the idea that society is declining is something that has to be justified, right?

00:56:42.000 With respect to what?

00:56:43.000 I mean, technologically, in terms of economy, we're obviously on the upswing hugely.

00:56:47.000 In terms of mental health, Mental illness.

00:56:50.000 It seems like we seem to be ticking downward.

00:56:52.000 I mean, like, there's a million ways that we can measure progress. 1.00

00:56:54.000 The idea that, like, the idea that women were in control in the past, I guess, because they fuck guys? 0.99

00:57:02.000 I don't even, I'm sure there's like. 1.00

00:57:04.000 You're the one saying that, like, women made these. 0.99

00:57:04.000 Well, you tell me. 0.99

00:57:06.000 There's a closing statement.

00:57:06.000 I don't know.

00:57:08.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:08.000 Let's not go into this.

00:57:09.000 I don't want to do this.

00:57:10.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:57:10.000 There's like, there is so much, like, random shit in there. 0.99

00:57:13.000 I don't even know what I could possibly address. 1.00

00:57:14.000 The idea that, like, society is declining because women are in politics now just seems to be, like, a really ridiculous assertion to me. 0.77

00:57:20.000 It's the most simple.

00:57:21.000 Okay, so I will, yeah, I'll go ahead and introduce the next topic.

00:57:26.000 I'm just going to read it how it's prepared so it can be very clear to you guys.

00:57:30.000 And Aswin, if you want to kind of put that in layman's terms or just kind of wrap it up, we can go ahead.

00:57:35.000 The next topic is the Mueller report.

00:57:39.000 And this is kind of how it's laid out as I laid it out.

00:57:44.000 So this is the entire question, okay?

00:57:47.000 Here we go.

00:57:48.000 The as of yet not publicly available Mueller report was finally published after a two year investigation into the possibility that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian government.

00:57:56.000 To rig the election in their favor.

00:57:58.000 Despite an unprecedented level of access to any political campaign, $30 million spent, 500 witnesses interviewed, 19 lawyers retained as a special counsel, 40 dedicated FBI staff anchored to the investigation, and 500 search warrants executed, it found zero evidence of any collusion.

00:58:15.000 There wasn't enough to charge even a low-level volunteer with any form of tampering or improper electoral conduct related to Russia.

00:58:21.000 Given how many news networks had reported, inaccurately, that Russian collusion had occurred and that the proof of collusion would be forthcoming, Does this outcome not validate Trump's claims about media bias against its administration?

00:58:34.000 Well, I think that last time we let Sargon and Nick go first.

00:58:37.000 So, Destiny or Hassan, whichever one of you two wants to start that off, go ahead.

00:58:42.000 Let's go.

00:58:45.000 Yeah, if you want to go first.

00:58:45.000 You want to go first?

00:58:49.000 Well, it's a two part discussion, right?

00:58:50.000 The first part, obviously, is about Trump and the Mueller report.

00:58:54.000 And the second part is more about how Trump was talking about fake news and the role that fake news had played in the Mueller report and the whole investigation on Trump.

00:59:02.000 I mean, I have my own personal perspective on this, but I think Destiny and I might disagree on it a little bit.

00:59:07.000 I just want to hear his side first and let him describe, and then we can talk about it.

00:59:12.000 Yeah, so firstly, the Mueller report in itself hasn't been made available to the public yet.

00:59:16.000 I don't remember if the House committee got it yet or not.

00:59:18.000 I don't know where they're at on that status, but supposedly they're going through some redactions for the full report to get released to the public, I think, as long as McConnell or whatever doesn't stop that from happening.

00:59:27.000 That being said, this idea that there was no proof of.

00:59:31.000 Well, okay. 0.99

00:59:32.000 Fuck, there are a million different ways to go this. 0.99

00:59:34.000 The idea that there was no proof of collusion or any of that, that's not necessarily true. 0.99

00:59:38.000 I think that what the attorney general's summary, what Barr's summary of the Mueller report was, is that there wasn't enough to like maybe actually press charges.

00:59:45.000 There's like a million different ways that that can be read.

00:59:47.000 We don't 100% know until we actually have the report, you know, itself.

00:59:51.000 So the idea that you can already say, well, the media was reporting things that was incorrect isn't necessarily true because those things might actually be borne out in the Mueller report.

00:59:58.000 However, maybe Mueller didn't feel like there's enough here to like 100% nail anybody to the wall on conspiracy against the United States.

01:00:05.000 So, yeah.

01:00:06.000 Okay.

01:00:07.000 The only thing that we can speculate here is look, Attorney General Barr was appointed to this position specifically because he said that the bar to prove collusion is going to be incredibly high.

01:00:20.000 And even beyond that, most importantly, obstruction of justice, even if it's proven, does not matter if that bar for collusion can be passed.

01:00:29.000 So we already know that obstruction of justice occurred.

01:00:31.000 So this is more so a matter of was there.

01:00:34.000 How do we know that?

01:00:36.000 We already know that obstruction of justice occurred because Trump went on national television and in front of millions of people on Lester Holt's channel said, I stopped James Comey.

01:00:46.000 I stopped the investigation because he was searching, because he was looking into the Russia investigation.

01:00:52.000 Now, I myself, unlike some members of the Young Turks who have a different perspective, thought that the Russia collusion narrative was a little self serving.

01:01:02.000 I talked about it quite frequently here on Twitch.

01:01:03.000 I talked about it in my coverage as well.

01:01:05.000 Originally, I thought it was very sketchy, and I do think that it was a good investigation to conduct, absolutely, given the fact that Russia had conclusively tried to meddle in our elections.

01:01:14.000 And beyond that, Trump had asked Russia to, again, on national television, hack into the DNC.

01:01:20.000 Which did happen.

01:01:21.000 So, obviously, that I think is enough for anyone to set up this sort of investigation.

01:01:28.000 I don't think people were actually against it at the time.

01:01:32.000 What happened, however, is that they focused too much on the collusion aspect of it. 0.99

01:01:36.000 And the reason why they focused too much on the collusion aspect of it, I think, especially on the liberal side, is because they wanted to justify why the hive mother Hillary Clinton lost to a demented dipshit man child like Donald Trump. 0.99

01:01:49.000 So they continuously pushed this narrative and they. 0.98

01:01:52.000 In some respects, similar to the fucking QAnon crowd on the right, lost their minds and started attributing everything, including even people like myself who were further to the left than the average Democrat, as Kremlin agents who were causing problems.

01:02:08.000 The real issues in America are deeply ingrained in American body politic. 0.97

01:02:13.000 So, like, when Russia can easily, by spending what, a million dollars in ad spend, change the outcome of a fucking election, then maybe we have to stop. 0.71

01:02:22.000 That conversation on whether or not Hillary Clinton lost because Russia was helping Donald Trump, or take a good hard look at how American politics is conducted and what our problems are as far as white supremacy, racism, as far as economic inequality, and all of these things that Russia could easily trigger some sort of outrage over with a couple dollars spent in the right direction on the internet, which I don't even know if this is legal or not. 0.90

01:02:49.000 Yeah, can I clarify one thing?

01:02:51.000 Is that you did say that Donald Trump was involved in a Of justice.

01:02:55.000 Was he ever charged on that, or is that your evaluation?

01:02:59.000 My evaluation, but beyond that, we don't.

01:03:01.000 My evaluation.

01:03:02.000 Now, on top of that, however, the reason why we know for a fact that there was nothing like no, like Attorney General Barr did not indict anyone on the report is because the bar was set incredibly high and it didn't matter if there was obstruction of justice or not.

01:03:21.000 Well, and to be clear, I think Barr said that Barr's very narrow interpretation that I don't think most legal scholars agree with is that obstruction of justice can't occur if the crime itself didn't occur.

01:03:30.000 So, for instance, what Barr is saying is that if collusion or More specifically, if conspiracy against the United States can't be proved, then there's no way he could have obstructed justice against it, which a lot of people take issue with that.

01:03:40.000 Which is, and my personal perspective on this, beyond everything else that we've talked about and beyond like other people's coverage and like liberals' coverage, is that 100% we should continuously push for transparency, see the entire report. 0.99

01:03:52.000 But I think every single person who is even remotely sane understands that Donald Trump is not only a most likely a criminal, but also a really bad one at that and constantly fucking stumbles. 1.00

01:04:06.000 And fuck shit up. 1.00

01:04:07.000 And the fact that they just narrowly focused and tried to cover their own asses, both the media apparatus and also the DNC tried to cover their own asses by promoting this message that only we should be looking at Russian involvement in the election was really counterproductive. 1.00

01:04:23.000 And that's probably why we fell. 0.98

01:04:25.000 That's probably why the Democrats, at least, looked terrible.

01:04:27.000 And both of you do agree that the Mueller report should be released to the public in its entirety, right?

01:04:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:34.000 I had a hard one with that.

01:04:35.000 Really?

01:04:35.000 I don't know.

01:04:36.000 Okay. 0.99

01:04:37.000 My worry is that, like, my worry is that what's going to happen, I'm just looking at it from an optics, pragmatic point of view, is that there are a lot of Democrats that are very fucking desperate to pin the Russia shit on Trump. 0.94

01:04:46.000 And if the report ends up getting released, they're going to find like one or two lines in there and they're going to make it all about that. 0.90

01:04:50.000 And they're going to throw the 2020 election away because they obsess over a couple things in the Mueller report that they probably should let go.

01:04:55.000 I mean, like, overall, it should probably be released. 0.99

01:04:57.000 I just hope that Democrats don't go full fucking moron with it or whatever. 0.99

01:05:00.000 Pragmatic argument, basically. 1.00

01:05:02.000 Yeah.

01:05:02.000 Okay.

01:05:03.000 Well, Sargon, you're not in the U.S. from an outsider perspective.

01:05:06.000 Where are you coming from?

01:05:08.000 I actually think Hassan gave a.

01:05:10.000 Lucid account of the problems in the Democratic Party.

01:05:14.000 I mean, Trump didn't need Russia to be able to win the election.

01:05:19.000 That's just the be all and end all of it.

01:05:21.000 There are deep societal issues and governmental issues in the United States that just haven't been addressed for a long time.

01:05:26.000 And I think that the way that the media effectively drives the discourse in America is part of that problem. 0.98

01:05:35.000 And I think that it took a giant orange dick to be able to break through that. 0.96

01:05:40.000 And that's what's happened. 0.96

01:05:47.000 The interesting thing, so I've spoken to people who were in the White House with Donald Trump, and I read the book Fire and Fury.

01:05:55.000 The conclusion that I've come away from with that is that they simply are not going to be competent enough to have colluded with Russia.

01:06:02.000 I think this requires a level of expertise that the Trump campaign, frankly, wasn't in possession of.

01:06:07.000 Yeah, right?

01:06:07.000 I agree.

01:06:08.000 Well, you can agree, but you're both wrong on that.

01:06:10.000 Manafort literally has conspired with foreign agents in the past.

01:06:13.000 That's literally what he was a dynamic character.

01:06:15.000 How can you agree with that?

01:06:17.000 No, I'm talking about it.

01:06:18.000 It was Donald Trump's campaign manager while he ran for president.

01:06:21.000 So it would have been involved with him, right? 0.89

01:06:22.000 That's precisely why I think that the Russia investigation was worthwhile because Paul Manafort had worked with other Russian oligarchs, which I reported on back in fucking August 2016. 0.66

01:06:32.000 I'm just saying it's possible that somebody around Trump could have gotten him to do a business.

01:06:36.000 I'm not saying it's impossible.

01:06:37.000 I don't think it was something they were really capable of and keeping secret then, maybe I should say.

01:06:42.000 And I think that the.

01:06:45.000 I mean, it's a total waste of time.

01:06:46.000 It's a red herring because, I mean, Trump's base doesn't care.

01:06:50.000 The two and a half year investigation has come to an end.

01:06:52.000 No further indictments, no further investigation. 0.97

01:06:55.000 It's a dead issue, and I think the left is absolutely foolish for pursuing it. 1.00

01:07:00.000 But you've got idiots like Rachel Maddow is going to double down and destroy themselves trying to pin something on Trump that, like you say, Destiny is. 0.99

01:07:07.000 So you actually agree with Destiny on this? 1.00

01:07:09.000 Oh, I think their analysis is generally quite correct.

01:07:14.000 I think they're right on what they're saying.

01:07:15.000 I think it's not really something that's worth pursuing.

01:07:18.000 I like that my perspective changed after the report came out, where I originally was like, oh, we shouldn't pursue this.

01:07:23.000 But I think as a political move, we absolutely should. 0.90

01:07:27.000 The Democrats should absolutely fucking continue to push this. 0.93

01:07:30.000 Not the narrative that there's collusion, but the narrative that crimes had been committed. 0.98

01:07:34.000 We know the campaign finance violations that were pretty flagrant.

01:07:37.000 We need to investigate those.

01:07:38.000 I think that the fact that we would just throw out this two year long investigation after the Republicans openly admitted that they utilized and weaponized the Benghazi investigation.

01:07:49.000 Hang on a second.

01:07:50.000 Let me finish my point.

01:07:51.000 None of you know American politics as well as I do, unfortunately.

01:07:55.000 Before we get to the rebuttals, can we please hear Nick's question?

01:07:59.000 Yeah, let's just listen.

01:08:01.000 Yes.

01:08:01.000 Thank you.

01:08:02.000 Benghazi was weaponized.

01:08:04.000 Okay, okay, okay.

01:08:05.000 All right, Nick, go ahead.

01:08:08.000 Sorry, Sargon, go ahead and finish.

01:08:10.000 Yes, Sargon, go ahead and finish and then give it to Nick directly.

01:08:12.000 Just finish.

01:08:14.000 Basically, I think it was essentially a red herring on the wrong, and if the Democrats don't let it go, they're going to destroy themselves on it.

01:08:20.000 But yeah, carry on.

01:08:21.000 Okay, thanks.

01:08:21.000 Okay, go ahead, Nick.

01:08:24.000 Yeah, okay.

01:08:25.000 Well, we'll look at the size and the scope of the Mueller investigation.

01:08:29.000 I think Trainwrecks read it off from the beginning.

01:08:31.000 It was two years, millions of dollars.

01:08:34.000 The exact figures disputed.

01:08:35.000 And actually, And nobody has pointed out, actually, everybody has failed to mention the fact that there were indictments delivered in the course of the investigation.

01:08:44.000 Many indictments.

01:08:46.000 Indictments against Russians, indictments against Americans. 0.52

01:08:49.000 And we find that the indictments against all the Russians.

01:08:51.000 Sorry to jump in.

01:08:52.000 I don't think.

01:08:53.000 Oh, Bob Funkel, can I just get a point out?

01:08:56.000 You can get it out.

01:08:57.000 Can I just finish?

01:08:58.000 I think that was an inaccuracy, that's all.

01:09:00.000 What is an inaccuracy?

01:09:02.000 Were there any Americans indicted?

01:09:04.000 Six people, I think.

01:09:04.000 Yes, yes.

01:09:05.000 Yes, many were indicted.

01:09:08.000 Except, however.

01:09:09.000 The Russians were indicted separately from everybody else.

01:09:12.000 They were indicted for trying to meddle in the election.

01:09:15.000 That's something Destiny and Hassan got right, that the Russians did attempt to meddle.

01:09:18.000 It wasn't tied directly to the Russian state, but they did find Russians who were buying Facebook ads.

01:09:23.000 I believe it was two companies and 13 individuals.

01:09:25.000 And they also found that something like six American individuals, people like Manafort, Papadopoulos, a number of others, were indicted as part of the investigation.

01:09:35.000 Every single indictment that was brought down, even against low level people, all the indictments had nothing to do with.

01:09:41.000 It was either lying to the FBI, which is something that everybody knows.

01:09:41.000 Collusion.

01:09:44.000 If there's an inconsistency, if you don't place something exactly right, they can get you with that.

01:09:50.000 So it's not difficult for somebody to get you for lying to the FBI.

01:09:55.000 Or in the case of Manafort, what they did is they dug up financial crimes from 2013.

01:10:01.000 And if you know the story on that, what happened was he had done some kind of weird, shady business deal with the Ukrainians.

01:10:07.000 This was back many years ago, like five or six years ago. 0.79

01:10:11.000 You had people looking into that in the government, looking into that financial crime.

01:10:15.000 This is well before Trump even announced or anything like that.

01:10:18.000 They shelved it.

01:10:19.000 And then when the Mueller investigation happened, they came back to those previous financial crimes.

01:10:23.000 And that's how he got charged.

01:10:24.000 So to me, and somebody said this earlier Trump's base doesn't even care.

01:10:29.000 That's totally correct. 0.98

01:10:30.000 I mean, we're going to talk about foreign meddling in elections.

01:10:32.000 And really, the hill we're going to die on is like Russian Facebook ads or like a phone call in Trump Tower from the Russians.

01:10:39.000 Has anybody heard of AIPAC?

01:10:40.000 Has anybody heard of anything other countries are doing?

01:10:43.000 Qatar, Saudi Arabia?

01:10:45.000 I mean, everybody meddles in our election.

01:10:47.000 So I'll say that.

01:10:48.000 But if we are going to talk about specifically the Mueller investigation, you know, I just don't think you can look at the size, the scope, the indictments, the media pressure, everything that was going on, all the access that was given, and come away with that and say, oh, they just didn't find it.

01:11:03.000 They just didn't have enough time.

01:11:05.000 I mean, Mueller had all the time in the world, and they were covering that every night on MSNBC and CNN, talking about Sergey Kizilyak and Jeff Sessions, even though Sessions was the chief of the Foreign Policy Subcommittee in the Senate. 0.85

01:11:17.000 So, I just think it's totally ridiculous.

01:11:20.000 But even if it did happen, wouldn't care.

01:11:22.000 Frankly, I don't think it was that big of a deal, even if it happened.

01:11:26.000 Well, how do you think the media's role in the reporting of this Mueller investigation affected them in any way or affected Trump's presidency or potentially his reelection?

01:11:36.000 It was obviously biased.

01:11:37.000 And this is something that was talked about even before 2018.

01:11:41.000 I just don't think it was fair, the fact that the media every night, and you look at media control, what is it?

01:11:46.000 95% of media is controlled by six conglomerates.

01:11:49.000 So you're going up against.

01:11:51.000 One man against like 95% of legacy media, which is print, television, and radio, just about all of them, with the exception of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, are beating the same old drums about these media companies.

01:12:02.000 Almost all radio leans very right.

01:12:04.000 That's not true.

01:12:06.000 Radio is really a contemporary medium.

01:12:09.000 You're the one that brought it up.

01:12:10.000 You brought it up.

01:12:11.000 The point was to demonstrate that you have a big scope here when we're talking about all these different media companies.

01:12:17.000 So, all of television, a lot of radio.

01:12:20.000 Sure, you're right.

01:12:21.000 You've got Rush.

01:12:22.000 You've got a few others over there.

01:12:24.000 You've got Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Billy Cunningham, Sean Hannity.

01:12:30.000 Right.

01:12:30.000 Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are equivalent to ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC.

01:12:35.000 Well, hold on.

01:12:36.000 I wouldn't make an equivalency between a radio.

01:12:38.000 Those are the largest radio hosts in America.

01:12:40.000 They're not the same as the cable news.

01:12:41.000 If you want to talk about cable news, the largest media network in the United States is Fox News, which is conservative.

01:12:46.000 So, I mean, if you want to talk about media on TV, you're right.

01:12:48.000 You're right.

01:12:48.000 All the networks.

01:12:49.000 And that's only cable news, also, by the way.

01:12:52.000 But you're also not counting.

01:12:53.000 We can run the goalposts as much as you want.

01:12:55.000 I'm just going to get the facts out.

01:12:56.000 No, Because you said Fox News is the biggest one.

01:12:58.000 Yeah, they're the biggest cable news network.

01:12:59.000 But you're not counting all of the others combined.

01:13:02.000 And you're also not counting social media.

01:13:04.000 You're not counting Twitter and Facebook and YouTube, where they're actively.

01:13:07.000 Oh, do you want to go on YouTube and see who the largest political commentators are?

01:13:09.000 Because that's overwhelmingly right leaning as well.

01:13:11.000 This is negative.

01:13:12.000 The conservative.

01:13:13.000 Yeah.

01:13:13.000 Really?

01:13:14.000 Who?

01:13:15.000 What do you mean? 1.00

01:13:16.000 Fucking, we've got Sargon of Akkkad here. 1.00

01:13:17.000 You've got Steven Crowder. 1.00

01:13:18.000 You've got that Mark Dice guy.

01:13:19.000 I mean, what do you mean?

01:13:20.000 Those are not the biggest.

01:13:21.000 The Young Turks, I'm pretty sure, is the biggest.

01:13:23.000 Political lies.

01:13:23.000 That is the one largest one, sure, but earlier when I used to.

01:13:27.000 It's just the largest one.

01:13:28.000 What are you talking about?

01:13:30.000 Wait, hold on.

01:13:31.000 When I just said that for Fox News, you want to talk about the totality of all the cable news.

01:13:34.000 Sure, that's right.

01:13:35.000 So when you talk about YouTube, now you want to point to the one Young Turks network, but if I talk about the totality of conservative YouTube creators, now you're going to narrow it to cable news.

01:13:43.000 Yes, you do have to look at the whole picture.

01:13:47.000 Hey, guys, can I just go ahead and deliver some information here?

01:13:54.000 I just want to clarify my position.

01:13:55.000 I think the.

01:13:56.000 The Russia investigation is largely frivolous, but I think the government conducts a lot of frivolous investigations and then weaponizes it politically.

01:14:04.000 And I think if anyone would disagree with me on this perspective, either they weren't around during the election coverage like, you know, a couple years back, where they consistently talked about Benghazi and Hillary Clinton's emails as a consequence of the Benghazi investigation.

01:14:18.000 And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because Kevin McCarthy, the Senate House Majority Leader, openly admitted that they used the Benghazi investigation, which took a longer time than the JFK.

01:14:31.000 Uh, the JFK assassination and Watergate investigation combined, which took a longer time than the 9 11 investigation, they used that to weaponize it against Hillary Clinton, who already sucked, mind you, but they effectively used that and consistently talked about it, and they still do. 0.90

01:14:46.000 I mean, Sean Hannity still fucking brings up Benghazi every now and then.

01:14:50.000 Yeah, Benghazi happens. 0.96

01:14:52.000 So for you to sit here and be like, oh, they spent all this money when you and I both know that they took back way more money.

01:14:58.000 They were able to seize more assets from Paul Manafort that would pay for the investigation and 10 times over is really silly.

01:15:06.000 I thought you didn't care about that sort of stuff as long as it fit your narrative, right?

01:15:09.000 Yeah, obviously you lack understanding.

01:15:11.000 I didn't say that to say that it was such a high cost.

01:15:15.000 I said it in order to demonstrate the scope and scale of the investigation.

01:15:20.000 Investigation.

01:15:22.000 In other words, there was no shortage of resources.

01:15:24.000 That was the intention.

01:15:25.000 Not to say that I'm so mad that the government is spending money.

01:15:28.000 The government spends money every day that we don't even know about.

01:15:31.000 The point is to say that they had every resource at their disposal and they were not able to come up with enough evidence to indict anybody, not even the president, anybody by collusion.

01:15:43.000 What?

01:15:44.000 Just can I address Destiny's point about the YouTube right wing bias?

01:15:49.000 That's not true, Destiny.

01:15:50.000 We've got the numbers.

01:15:52.000 The right gets 2.5 billion viewed recommendations a month.

01:15:55.000 The center gets 2.5 billion, and the left gets 5.7 billion.

01:15:59.000 It's heavily skewed.

01:16:00.000 Billion?

01:16:00.000 How do you account for that?

01:16:01.000 Well, how do you account for that?

01:16:03.000 Viewed recommendations.

01:16:04.000 Wait, viewed recommendations?

01:16:04.000 Yeah, YouTube's huge.

01:16:06.000 I've left a link in the description, in the chat for you to have a look at afterwards.

01:16:11.000 Well, how do you account for the difference between.

01:16:13.000 Wait, you consider Jimmy Kimmel Live as left?

01:16:15.000 The hell?

01:16:16.000 Ah, okay. 0.88

01:16:17.000 You may have to talk about it.

01:16:19.000 It's like Jimmy Kimmel Live is a part of the left in this.

01:16:22.000 I mean, Okay, here are the.

01:16:25.000 These are.

01:16:26.000 Of people that aren't like mainstream media, so like John Oliver or whatever, of just people that are like YouTube personalities, here's the top 10 list that I have for views in the last 30 days and millions of people, okay?

01:16:36.000 You have one and two are the Young Turks and Philip DeFranco.

01:16:38.000 If you want to consider Philip DeFranco, I guess you could call him left.

01:16:41.000 He's more centrist.

01:16:42.000 Then after that, you've got Steven Crowder, Prager U, Infowars, Daily Wire, Mark Dice.

01:16:47.000 Infowars?

01:16:49.000 Yeah, Secular Talk, which is.

01:16:51.000 Infowars have been banned for years. 0.65

01:16:52.000 Secular Talk is left. 0.99

01:16:54.000 Secular talk is.

01:16:55.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, Secular talk is left.

01:16:56.000 Yeah, sorry, yeah, I saw it.

01:16:57.000 And then Paul Joseph Watson.

01:16:58.000 This is not from YouTube.

01:16:59.000 When was this data compiled?

01:17:02.000 This is what I have, it's 10 months old.

01:17:02.000 This was compiled.

01:17:04.000 Okay.

01:17:04.000 And anyway, you say without John Oliver.

01:17:07.000 Sure, if it was, might not be with us any longer, sure.

01:17:08.000 You say without John Oliver, how can you exclude John Oliver?

01:17:11.000 I said Jimmy Kimmel.

01:17:12.000 I don't know if it's the same as having a mainstream media network show like what you do.

01:17:19.000 He's comparing people.

01:17:20.000 No, it's completely different.

01:17:22.000 He's comparing people that are originated and.

01:17:24.000 Their content exists on YouTube primarily.

01:17:27.000 John Oliver's content does not exist on YouTube primarily.

01:17:30.000 And so he would be considered another component.

01:17:33.000 Now, it doesn't mean that he doesn't count.

01:17:35.000 It just means that he counts in a different way.

01:17:37.000 Yeah, I understand that.

01:17:38.000 I understand that.

01:17:39.000 I understand the point being made, but only if you're looking at a very, very narrow definition.

01:17:44.000 For example, if you say, if we look at cable news, correct, the biggest primetime shows are on Fox News.

01:17:51.000 But if you're looking at all of news and people watch not just cable news, And you add them all up, it's obviously greater than Fox News.

01:17:59.000 And the same is true with YouTube.

01:18:00.000 If you exclude Jimmy Kimmel, who talks about his son and why we need Obamacare and the individual mandate on a show, yeah, if you exclude Jimmy Kimmel and John Oliver and all the other big ones on YouTube, and you look at the top 10, yeah, the top two are left and a few in the top five are left.

01:18:15.000 But look at all these, I mean, only under very narrow definitions, qualifying it totally arbitrarily, can you in any way, shape, or form say that there's a quality or a conservative advantage in media?

01:18:26.000 Please, what puts you in the comments?

01:18:28.000 Let's say, for instance, all of Twitch was right leaning.

01:18:31.000 Let's say, for a hypothetical, all of Twitch is right leaning.

01:18:33.000 And then let's say that every now and then Obama comes on and gives some, he's working for some charity thing, and they do a political thing on Twitch.

01:18:41.000 And that's the only time they're the only thing related to that.

01:18:43.000 He's not a Twitch streamer or whatever.

01:18:45.000 And in those times, let's say they get more views than anybody else on Twitch.

01:18:48.000 I don't know if you would then say, well, Twitch has a fair representation of left versus right because sometimes Obama doesn't do it.

01:18:52.000 That just doesn't seem to be.

01:18:54.000 I mean, I guess we can argue over methodology.

01:18:55.000 I don't think it's ordained.

01:18:56.000 You're obfuscating.

01:18:57.000 You understand the methodology.

01:18:58.000 I'm not obfuscating.

01:18:59.000 It's trying to get a better understanding of who you are.

01:19:00.000 You know, this is always what you obfuscate.

01:19:02.000 You say you come up with these totally convoluted hypotheticals.

01:19:06.000 Everybody knows the media is left leaning.

01:19:07.000 And by the way, John Oliver does not come on YouTube once in a while like Barack Obama.

01:19:12.000 John Oliver posts every show on YouTube, and everyone knows that.

01:19:16.000 And everyone goes, Oh, yeah, but John Oliver's fan base didn't come from YouTube.

01:19:18.000 He's not part of the YouTube community.

01:19:20.000 Nobody would post it on YouTube.

01:19:21.000 You're saying he's going to show on HBO.

01:19:22.000 He's going to show on HBO.

01:19:26.000 We're talking about media.

01:19:26.000 I'm sorry if the.

01:19:27.000 Okay.

01:19:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:29.000 You call it a trivia little detail.

01:19:30.000 I can no longer obfuscate the data. 0.97

01:19:31.000 Unironically, open the conversation saying that talk radio is fucking left leaning. 0.76

01:19:35.000 And now you're saying that I'm the one obfuscating the data. 0.96

01:19:37.000 I'd say talk radio is left leaning.

01:19:39.000 I'm pretty sure you brought that up in part of your.

01:19:41.000 I said 95% of media is owned by cis conglomerates, of which we're talking about Legacy Video.

01:19:47.000 You said running down them goalposts.

01:19:49.000 You could rewind the tape.

01:19:50.000 It's not shifting the goalposts.

01:19:51.000 I remember what was said.

01:19:52.000 Destiny said that obviously a lot of the right wing, you know, the shows on radio are right wing.

01:20:00.000 And then Nick responded by saying radio isn't relevant.

01:20:04.000 That's what happened.

01:20:05.000 Radio is still tremendously relevant, especially in the motor block that's not.

01:20:09.000 That's what you guys said.

01:20:11.000 Yeah, but he brought up radio beforehand.

01:20:12.000 That's why I brought it up.

01:20:13.000 I wouldn't bring it up anymore.

01:20:14.000 And Sinclair Broadcasting is another one.

01:20:16.000 I mean, look, right wing commentary is.

01:20:21.000 Prevalent on YouTube and all these other platforms, unless they.

01:20:26.000 Okay.

01:20:27.000 It's outnumbered by almost two to one for the left wing.

01:20:32.000 It's just not correct.

01:20:35.000 I would love to engage with this study a little bit further and get back to you, but immediately the first thing I see is Jimmy Kimmel Live when I scroll my mouse over it.

01:20:43.000 And that is a little suspicious to me because Jimmy Kimmel Live had one segment where he talked about his daughter's cancer, and it's literally the largest.

01:20:52.000 It's after The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, it's the largest.

01:20:55.000 Bubble on there.

01:20:57.000 And the fact that you would use clips such as, hey, Jimmy Kimmel goes out and talks to children on the street as how powerful leftist media is on the internet is kind of, it just kind of makes it sound like it's disingenuous for you to say, I believe, that Jimmy Kimmel only referenced something political once.

01:21:19.000 I think he does bring that up similarly.

01:21:21.000 Okay, Jimmy Kimmel talking about politics and being compared, being put up against No Bullshit, for example, which is a political YouTuber.

01:21:29.000 In the same study is absolute madness.

01:21:32.000 If you look at the top few Jimmy Kimmel clips, the first three are going to be political, and then the overwhelming majority are just going to be commentary or mostly comedy.

01:21:41.000 It's crazy to me that you matter if they were equally personally studied.

01:21:44.000 So, yeah, so here's a problem.

01:21:46.000 So, real quick, right?

01:21:47.000 So, I see people listed on here like Philip DeFranco, okay?

01:21:50.000 Philip DeFranco is somebody that I would consider political. 0.96

01:21:53.000 I'm pretty sure, fuck, I haven't done this, but I'm pretty sure if I go to Philip DeFranco's channel and I sort by top, all of his most popular shit is going to be political. 0.98

01:21:59.000 Jimmy Kimmel's channel. 0.98

01:22:00.000 The most popular clips are Jimmy surprises Bieber fan, celebrities read mean tweets, number seven, number two.

01:22:06.000 I told my kids I ate all their Halloween candy.

01:22:09.000 Like, these are the views that are being counted as like left wing political YouTube.

01:22:13.000 Like, I just.

01:22:14.000 That's a valuable lesson in social media.

01:22:15.000 I just feel like he's going to come from a politically left wing position.

01:22:19.000 Yeah, but like, if I were to compare his thing to somebody like Mark Dice, right?

01:22:22.000 If I were to go to Mark Dice's channel, that's going to be all political videos.

01:22:24.000 Why would it matter if it was equally persuasive?

01:22:28.000 Because you can't use it to.

01:22:31.000 You can't use it to boost your numbers. 0.96

01:22:33.000 You can't just drop random shit in there just because they every now and then talk about political subjects, but for the most part are comedians. 0.96

01:22:40.000 You know what I mean? 0.98

01:22:41.000 Yeah, like John Oliver.

01:22:42.000 Stephen Colbert is a comedian.

01:22:44.000 Okay, let me just answer this for me.

01:22:46.000 Do you think like Fox News and I mean, maybe not even Joe Rogan, but like Norm McDonald and Fox News is not an app comparison.

01:22:53.000 Norm McDonald is a conservative, but I would never consider like a Norm McDonald YouTube channel to be like, hey, this is actually a right wing political podcast.

01:23:01.000 Actually, I'm actually, no, I'm actually going to take a hard disagree with Hassan here.

01:23:05.000 You know what?

01:23:06.000 You guys are absolutely right.

01:23:07.000 Now, my question is why isn't PewDiePie listed on this site under the right?

01:23:10.000 Well, because he's never seen it.

01:23:12.000 Never mind.

01:23:13.000 You're right.

01:23:13.000 You're right, Destiny.

01:23:14.000 No, let me ask a divine question.

01:23:16.000 PewDiePie, after all, PewDiePie platform Ben Shapiro.

01:23:18.000 Is Ben Shapiro not a right wing political commentary?

01:23:21.000 What do you mean?

01:23:23.000 Oh, wait, are you telling me that Juni Chima leading candy? 0.96

01:23:28.000 Juni Chima leading candy is actually political commentary, but fucking meme reviews with Ben Shapiro is not? 0.87

01:23:33.000 Tell me, what's PewDiePie's position on Obamacare? 0.86

01:23:35.000 Do you know what that is?

01:23:38.000 It doesn't matter.

01:23:39.000 No, because we don't know what his position is because he doesn't talk about explicitly how it's someone's.

01:23:39.000 He's obviously.

01:23:45.000 You probably don't even watch it because Jimmy Kimmel openly talks about it.

01:23:49.000 Every show is an anti Trump tirade.

01:23:51.000 And you know that. 1.00

01:23:52.000 You can't be this stupid, right? 1.00

01:23:54.000 You can't be this stupid, right? 1.00

01:23:56.000 PewDiePie talks about culture war quite frequently. 1.00

01:23:56.000 Can I ask you? 1.00

01:23:59.000 Why is no bullshit in Sargon of Akkad mentioned in this if they don't really talk about policy that frequently, but mostly talk about social commentary in the culture war? 0.61

01:24:06.000 That's the thing. 0.84

01:24:08.000 One at a time, please, one at a time.

01:24:10.000 Let's go with Sargon.

01:24:11.000 Sargon, go ahead.

01:24:12.000 It's kind of irrelevant because you're right.

01:24:14.000 These people do have political biases that come across in their media.

01:24:18.000 Even if that particular piece of media that you point to isn't necessarily a political piece, these things are political.

01:24:24.000 PewDiePie probably should be on the right wing side.

01:24:24.000 I agree.

01:24:27.000 No, I still think it's silly.

01:24:29.000 That's my point.

01:24:30.000 It's silly to put Jimmy Kimmel and then not put PewDiePie.

01:24:32.000 If you're not going to put PewDiePie in there, you shouldn't be putting Jimmy Kimmel in there. 0.99

01:24:35.000 My point isn't to look at the study at all because I have no idea what the fuck this study is. 0.60

01:24:41.000 And beyond that, it doesn't seem like a reasonable study. 0.89

01:24:44.000 I think the more interesting question is why do you guys have a problem with accepting left wing media dominance?

01:24:52.000 Because conservatives usually use this to push this narrative that, like, oh no, we have no voice anywhere, when it's just not true.

01:24:58.000 There's plenty of voices in conservative media on YouTube, on radio, even on print, arguably.

01:25:04.000 And then on cable news, Fox News is still the largest cable network in the United States.

01:25:07.000 Like, this idea that conservatives have no voice anywhere while they control both halves of Congress, while they have the president, like, it's just really strange.

01:25:13.000 I don't know.

01:25:13.000 Oh, wait, can we look at Fox News for a moment?

01:25:16.000 I think that's actually an interesting point there.

01:25:18.000 Because you look at the primetime show on Fox News, which is Tucker Carlson, the highest rated one.

01:25:24.000 And have you been watching the show lately?

01:25:26.000 I probably not.

01:25:27.000 But if you look at the advertisements, they can only now advertise what is it?

01:25:31.000 Fox News' own commercials, MyPillow, and a Trump pack.

01:25:35.000 Yeah, they don't usually like to be associated with white nationalists.

01:25:38.000 One at a time, please.

01:25:40.000 One at a time.

01:25:41.000 You think it really is? 1.00

01:25:43.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:25:43.000 Please, one at a time. 1.00

01:25:44.000 Yo, please, one at a time.

01:25:46.000 Nick finishes.

01:25:47.000 Listen, are not left wing.

01:25:49.000 Let's at least let Nick finish.

01:25:51.000 Guys, Nick finishes, and then Destiny or Hassan can rebuttal, okay?

01:25:54.000 Nick, please finish.

01:25:54.000 Yeah, I know.

01:25:55.000 Back to the news.

01:25:57.000 Everybody knows this.

01:25:58.000 And this is what I mean by obfuscation.

01:25:59.000 You're going to say that because Tucker Carlson and Fox News have a big presence, they have a big network, that this outweighs, if we're looking at the scale here, that this outweighs, again, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, all the networks.

01:26:14.000 And then you factor in the corporations.

01:26:16.000 Then you factor in the fact that somebody at Media Matters doesn't like what Tucker Carlson says, and you've got an advertiser boy.

01:26:22.000 Can you remember what he said?

01:26:24.000 Excuse me, does that happen on any other channel?

01:26:26.000 What have you said?

01:26:26.000 Have we ever heard of it?

01:26:27.000 When you had a contributor.

01:26:28.000 Of course, of course.

01:26:29.000 I watch a show.

01:26:30.000 When you have a contributor, for example, on Joy Reed, why do you think advertising?

01:26:34.000 Joy Reed, hey, can I finish my point or are you going to get a rebuttal or how does it work?

01:26:38.000 I want you to elaborate.

01:26:38.000 I'm just confused.

01:26:40.000 It doesn't matter what Tuckle Carlson said.

01:26:42.000 The point being, you say he has a voice, but he says the wrong thing, and all these corporations bend to the will of media matters. 0.95

01:26:50.000 Now, Joy Reid can say, like, homosexuals are abominations and all this other stuff, and that gets revealed. 0.83

01:26:55.000 There's not a boycott. 0.98

01:26:57.000 There's not an outcry.

01:26:58.000 She doesn't even get fired from her job.

01:27:00.000 So you can go around trying to pretend like there's any kind of parody.

01:27:03.000 It's just such a thing that everybody does.

01:27:05.000 I don't even like Joy Ann Reid.

01:27:06.000 I don't know why you're bringing up Joy Ann Reid. 0.99

01:27:08.000 I don't give a shit about her. 0.98

01:27:10.000 Listen, guys, please give me a second. 0.99

01:27:11.000 Guys, please give me a second here, okay?

01:27:13.000 You will have time to rebuttal.

01:27:13.000 Listen.

01:27:14.000 If you have an issue with a certain thing, write it down.

01:27:17.000 Let Nick finish all the way and then you respond.

01:27:18.000 And the same goes to you guys.

01:27:20.000 Let Hassan and Destiny finish all the way and then give your rebuttals.

01:27:22.000 Please keep it this way.

01:27:24.000 Okay, the only times I try to interrupt is because I genuinely want to understand Nick's perspective or if he's saying something that I just, I'm not very.

01:27:31.000 There's nothing genuine about you.

01:27:32.000 There's nothing genuine about your questions or anything about you.

01:27:35.000 No, I don't know if that was entirely true.

01:27:37.000 But Destiny and Hassan, can you guys, do you guys agree with Sargon that the majority of the mainstream media, right?

01:27:45.000 The MSNs, CNNs, MSNBCs, Fox, The majority is left leaning.

01:27:52.000 No.

01:27:53.000 I mean, like, I probably would, but that's really fucking hard because, like, I mean, based on my engagement with the media, it seems to be that way. 0.95

01:28:01.000 But for instance, if you go to like certain parts of the country, if you like, you know, Nick is here to laugh off talk radio, I'm pretty sure talk radio actually reaches like more customers than even fucking Facebook does. 0.78

01:28:10.000 A lot of people listen to talk radio.

01:28:12.000 A billion and a half people talk radio reaches?

01:28:14.000 Please let Destiny face.

01:28:15.000 I'm talking about in the United States, unless our population grew fivefold.

01:28:18.000 I don't think we have a billion.

01:28:19.000 I was referring to the United States when I said a billion and a half.

01:28:22.000 You didn't understand.

01:28:22.000 Wait, then why are you talking about the global Facebook monthly users if you're talking about the popularity of left or right media?

01:28:28.000 Oh, because you're saying that Facebook reaches as many people as talk radio. 0.94

01:28:32.000 This is obviously ridiculous.

01:28:34.000 When I say as many people, I'm referring to politics within the United States. 0.68

01:28:38.000 The talk radio is still a really popular way to advertise things.

01:28:40.000 How many people have a Facebook account?

01:28:43.000 In just the United States? 0.87

01:28:45.000 I can't believe I just got sidetracked so fucking hard. 0.98

01:28:48.000 Slippery Nick doing it again. 0.99

01:28:50.000 I don't even remember what the fuck my original point was. 0.93

01:28:52.000 Anyway, You really shouldn't get started with the names. 0.98

01:28:55.000 There are going to be some ugly ones with you, my friend.

01:28:57.000 I've heard it all, buddy.

01:28:58.000 Don't worry.

01:29:00.000 This idea that we somehow like segued also from like, is media popular to are people restricting advertisements to certain people?

01:29:06.000 That's like the most non sequitur thing I've heard in my entire life.

01:29:09.000 If you want to argue about like, are right leaning views more popular to advertisers than left leaning views, of course I'm going to agree that left leaning views are more popular. 0.96

01:29:14.000 Tucker Carlson almost fucking took a hard right into white nationalism. 1.00

01:29:18.000 Yeah, no fucking shit. 1.00

01:29:19.000 A lot of people aren't going to be platforming his shit or supporting his shit via advertisers as much. 1.00

01:29:22.000 That's a totally different argument on. 1.00

01:29:24.000 Do conservatives have a voice in the United States?

01:29:25.000 Is there representation in the media for conservatives?

01:29:27.000 Which I believe there is.

01:29:28.000 Now, is the media, you know, like slanted to the left in terms of their bias?

01:29:32.000 You know, my engagement with media is generally on the internet, which is going to be more left leaning than, say, somebody's engagement who's only on like talk radio or local news, right?

01:29:32.000 Maybe it's possible.

01:29:39.000 Which is going to slant right.

01:29:40.000 So, I mean, I don't know.

01:29:41.000 It's hard to quantify which one is, you know, more left or more right in terms of all the media.

01:29:41.000 It's hard to say.

01:29:46.000 And I don't think you can do it with a study that lists Jimmy Kimmel as a left wing political commentator on YouTube.

01:29:52.000 Nick or Sargon, any responses to that? 0.93

01:29:54.000 I mean, it's just, um, It's just utterly ridiculous.

01:29:56.000 If you're going to deny this basic reality, there was a study that was done by the Media Research Center a couple of months ago, which said that it was like 92% of coverage was against Trump.

01:30:06.000 And I don't think it's so strange that 92% of coverage was against Trump.

01:30:09.000 It shouldn't be with the interruptions, right?

01:30:12.000 It just, look, we can disagree about obviously the Mueller report and we can disagree about whether the coverage was accurate or not.

01:30:19.000 But to me, if we can't even agree, if it's such a controversial thing to say, the media has a left wing bias, that culture making institutions generally in America or You know, just major conglomerates in America.

01:30:31.000 I mean, if we're going to pretend like that institutional bias doesn't exist, I mean, I don't even know how we're supposed to have a conversation.

01:30:37.000 It feels like you're living in another world.

01:30:38.000 I mean, especially given what I do for a living.

01:30:41.000 You know how hard it is to make a living trying to just fake common sense right wing things without them coming for your Discord, your Streamlabs, your YouTube, your Facebook, your Twitter?

01:30:51.000 What did they just pass the other week on Facebook?

01:30:52.000 I mean, it's just, I really do feel like we're living in two different dimensions here.

01:30:56.000 If you're going to try and sit here and say that the people that run these social media.

01:31:00.000 I know what you're trying to say.

01:31:02.000 What you mean is they're speaking from a position of privilege.

01:31:05.000 That's right.

01:31:06.000 That's right.

01:31:07.000 That's a really funny meme, and I unfortunately have to kind of.

01:31:10.000 Provide a little bit more perspective, a little bit more background into what Nick is trying to say.

01:31:15.000 Oftentimes, when people come for specific channels or Discord servers and whatnot, if it's not led by right wing people like Destiny, the conquest that ended up with Destiny losing his Twitter account, which happens quite frequently to the members of the left as well.

01:31:32.000 But more often than not, it's for things like Tucker Carlson defending a child rapist on a talk show or Tucker Carlson calling Arabs. 0.84

01:31:40.000 Primitive apes or primitive monkeys on a talk show. 0.96

01:31:44.000 Now, beyond that, if Tucker Carlson's white nationalism gets to a point where it's not profitable, unfortunately, that's capitalism, baby.

01:31:51.000 If you hate that, then maybe you should reconsider what your perspective is on capitalism.

01:31:55.000 Yeah, but that's not just capitalism, is it?

01:31:57.000 I mean, there are ways of thinking.

01:31:59.000 Marketing dollars away from Tucker Carlson's show is absolutely a product of capitalism.

01:32:04.000 Hang on, right?

01:32:05.000 There are very, very well funded and well engaged and well staffed and well manned on social media.

01:32:13.000 Networks of activist groups that are very, very insistent on getting people like Tucker Carlson defunded. 0.93

01:32:20.000 It's actually somewhat of a fucking cancer to the dialogue, and it's making the left look like a predatory group of people who are out for blood the way that they try to hurt people at every given turn. 0.92

01:32:31.000 And it's not something that, like, nobody's seen. 0.98

01:32:34.000 I mean, surely you guys are well aware that things like Media Matters, Hope Not Hate, all these sort of activist organizations are well connected and do a lot of damage to their political opponents.

01:32:44.000 This is. 0.94

01:32:45.000 I hate, I fucking hate that I have to do this. 0.97

01:32:47.000 Who did we just lose? 0.99

01:32:48.000 We just lost.

01:32:49.000 Oh, Assange just dipped.

01:32:51.000 Oh, okay, good.

01:32:52.000 I can do this without him hearing then.

01:32:52.000 All right.

01:32:54.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:32:54.000 Is he back? 1.00

01:32:54.000 Oh, he's back. 1.00

01:32:56.000 He's back, yeah.

01:32:58.000 Okay.

01:32:59.000 I'm going to do it.

01:32:59.000 Okay.

01:33:00.000 I'm sorry, boys.

01:33:01.000 Okay. 1.00

01:33:01.000 If you're left wing and you follow my stream, fuck off. 1.00

01:33:02.000 I hate you. 1.00

01:33:03.000 However, this idea that media corporations are doing something to further positive public dialogue is an absolute fucking fantasy. 0.99

01:33:10.000 This is capitalism 101. 0.86

01:33:11.000 What the media companies are going to do is, as soon as it becomes politically expedient to do so, they're going to throw their money in that direction. 1.00

01:33:17.000 This idea that some media company is going to stake its reputation on progressive values is hilariously stupid. 0.96

01:33:23.000 There is no board of directors that no CEO has walked in front of and said, Listen, trans people might not be popular, but I think we're going to go ahead and push our company in that direction anyway. 0.99

01:33:31.000 Absolutely not.

01:33:32.000 Companies absolutely follow lock and step with cultural norms.

01:33:36.000 Please let Destiny finish.

01:33:42.000 I do acknowledge that there is a framework by which you can view this. 0.96

01:33:45.000 So if you're somebody like Nick that believes that Jews control the whole fucking world and they're the ones pushing narratives, right? 0.99

01:33:49.000 Because multiculturalism destroyed the white man, sure, maybe they do. 0.99

01:33:52.000 But for the rest of us that live in reality, this is Capitalism 101, baby.

01:33:55.000 Black Panther wasn't put out as a movie because they thought that it would help black people in the US.

01:33:55.000 Okay.

01:33:58.000 They did it because they knew it would make a fuck ton of money. 0.98

01:34:00.000 Because there are a lot of people across the entire fucking world that engage with types of media and having more diversity helps and shit like that. 0.98

01:34:05.000 That's where it comes from. 0.97

01:34:06.000 This is a Capitalism 101 thing.

01:34:07.000 Okay, okay, okay.

01:34:08.000 No, no, hang on, hang on.

01:34:11.000 I got to take this right now. 0.69

01:34:12.000 Because you were just fucking wrong, mate, right? 0.76

01:34:14.000 Listen to the director of Black Panther. 0.95

01:34:17.000 Just listen to him.

01:34:18.000 Like, have you watched any of his interviews or anything like that?

01:34:21.000 It's all about the politics.

01:34:22.000 If you look at, what was it, Tim Cook at Apple, he sounds like a preacher.

01:34:26.000 Stephen Summons.

01:34:26.000 Hold on, hold on.

01:34:27.000 The director of Black Panther.

01:34:28.000 Who funded his movie?

01:34:30.000 I'd have to look it up.

01:34:30.000 I don't know.

01:34:31.000 It was a large company that was looking to make a lot of money, Sargon.

01:34:34.000 It wasn't him.

01:34:35.000 I'm sure he didn't make any film.

01:34:37.000 But the idea that you think there isn't a political and moral goal in what they're doing is just wrong.

01:34:41.000 There is a political goal. 0.96

01:34:42.000 The political goal is to show society whatever it is they want to see so they can make the most fucking money off of it. 0.91

01:34:46.000 That's absolutely true. 0.86

01:34:47.000 Why didn't we get it? 1.00

01:34:48.000 If that was true, then why didn't we get a Black Panther movie like this like 20 years ago or more women in media 20 years ago? 0.99

01:34:52.000 Because this is a new, this particular variant of politics is a relatively recent phenomenon and it's taken the media establishment, the Hollywood establishment by storm.

01:35:02.000 There's a way no one with any kind of director might have personal political goals, but that doesn't change the underlying reality that Destiny's trying to get you.

01:35:12.000 To understand, which is that big corporations are never going to fund a movie just for political purposes.

01:35:17.000 And if you were to understand this a little bit better, we would make the comparison between whoever the director of Black Panther was, which I don't even know, versus Boots Riley, an outspoken, avowed communist who's been a director of Black Panther.

01:35:30.000 Listen, the reason why Boots Riley, sorry to bother you, is an indie movie that makes a decent amount of money but still is not being funded by these sorts of like, you know, some Chinese corporation or whatever, and Black Panther is, is because Black Panther is.

01:35:45.000 Actually, trying to make money versus the other one is genuinely trying to promote social change.

01:35:50.000 And actually, this makes me so sad.

01:35:52.000 This makes me so sad.

01:35:53.000 Well, it makes me so sad because, like, this is all kind of.

01:35:55.000 No, no, Destiny, hang on a second.

01:35:57.000 So, there are loads of examples of movies that have not done well because of an excessive focus on politics.

01:36:02.000 With things like Black Panther, you're lucky because you're stumbling, and same with Captain Marvel, you're stumbling into a kind of cultural pocket that is capable of both pushing an agenda and making money.

01:36:15.000 But these, there are many films that are just complete losses.

01:36:18.000 I mean, I don't have a list off the top of my head.

01:36:19.000 I don't have. 0.98

01:36:20.000 Ghostbusters, how about the female Ghostbusters? 0.99

01:36:23.000 How about Ghostbusters 2 that was all men and also sucked? 0.99

01:36:26.000 I mean, what do you mean? 0.99

01:36:27.000 People make shitty movies all the time. 0.91

01:36:28.000 It was all about the Ghostbusters portion and agenda. 0.98

01:36:34.000 Of course it was.

01:36:34.000 Listen to Paul Fee.

01:36:35.000 He says it's all about the agenda.

01:36:37.000 Same with the guy who made Black Panther.

01:36:39.000 Same with Captain Marvel.

01:36:41.000 These things are agenda driven.

01:36:43.000 This is something that's driving Disney into the ground, man.

01:36:45.000 Look at Star Wars.

01:36:47.000 Disney owns 80% of the the theater these days. 0.99

01:36:50.000 Didn't they just acquire the largest fucking. 0.96

01:36:52.000 Yeah, I know, mate, but I don't think it's going to last forever. 0.98

01:36:55.000 Look what they've done for the Star Wars franchise.

01:36:57.000 Wait, is your argument genuinely that, like, Disney.

01:36:59.000 Wait, I don't really watch your videos, Sargon, but is your argument actually that Disney is, like, that Disney has a moral objective to, like, make the world more progressive?

01:37:09.000 And because of that, they're just, like, burning cash right now and they're failing?

01:37:12.000 I didn't say Disney, no.

01:37:14.000 People in Disney.

01:37:15.000 I mean, I don't know about, like, the high ups. 0.98

01:37:17.000 I'm sure they're fucking hating it. 0.92

01:37:19.000 So do you not think that the board of directors has a vested interest, a fiduciary responsibility in ensuring. 0.98

01:37:25.000 Shareholder maximizing profit and ensuring that shareholder value is.

01:37:30.000 I think the problem that you have is that you view these things as monolithic.

01:37:35.000 From a materialist perspective, yes.

01:37:35.000 Yes.

01:37:37.000 Thank you.

01:37:38.000 Yeah, I know.

01:37:39.000 But then they're not monolithic.

01:37:41.000 There are people operating in a.

01:37:42.000 No, not monolithic, materialistic.

01:37:44.000 Yeah, okay.

01:37:46.000 I'm saying the thing is more than the sum of its components, but the components within it are individual actors with their own agendas, and they come to these things with a particular perspective.

01:37:55.000 And in many cases, to push a specific agenda.

01:37:58.000 And this agenda is costing them money.

01:38:00.000 They have their hits, but they have many losses as well.

01:38:04.000 And it's something that I don't think is sustainable.

01:38:06.000 I mean, haven't they stopped making Star Wars films at this point?

01:38:09.000 Just to summarize your argument, what you're saying is that Disney as an organization or a corporation is not necessarily doing things politically, but there are people who are making decisions at Disney that do have political leanings that are doing that in order to.

01:38:22.000 So you think like 75 year old executives at Disney are like thinking, we want gay rights. 0.89

01:38:27.000 We really need to make the world more SJW. 0.86

01:38:29.000 I'm a millionaire or a billionaire, an executive at Disney.

01:38:32.000 He literally just said the opposite of that.

01:38:32.000 I didn't say that.

01:38:34.000 I, yeah, I mean, I realize that you, as a Marxist, have a problem with like 75 year old millionaires, but I'm literally not saying that.

01:38:42.000 No, no, he's not saying there's a problem.

01:38:42.000 So if you.

01:38:43.000 It's just, here's the. 0.98

01:38:44.000 Do you know why you know about Paul Freak's fucking political stances or why you know that some directors have. 0.98

01:38:49.000 The reason why they do that is because capitalists that want to make money on their movies throw them onto the fucking media because they know reactionaries like you two are going to make a fuck ton of videos talking about them. 0.98

01:38:57.000 Remember all the videos that were made about how Captain Marvel is going to fucking fail because Captain Marvel was so politicized in SJW? 0.98

01:39:03.000 That movie went on to make over a billion fucking dollars. 0.96

01:39:05.000 The only reason you know the political views of. 0.99

01:39:07.000 Any of these fucking people is because the big companies put them out there so that they talk about it so that it drives up hype for the movie. 1.00

01:39:12.000 That's the only fucking reason. 0.99

01:39:13.000 I don't agree. 0.99

01:39:14.000 I wish capitalism worked like how you thought it did, Sargon, because I would be such a stronger capitalist.

01:39:20.000 But this idea that companies are actually putting morals ahead of just maximizing the amount of money they make for their business is comical. 0.99

01:39:26.000 Even in fucking China, where the Black Panther was released, the fucking posters for that movie had to cover the actor's face because people in China don't really like black people that much. 1.00

01:39:34.000 There's so much dumb shit that happens for people to make money. 1.00

01:39:37.000 This idea that Yeah, I don't know. 1.00

01:39:38.000 Sargon is a liberal.

01:39:40.000 I'm beginning to realize that Sargon is genuinely a liberal because he unironically thinks that having more female prison guards is actually what the liberals are pushing.

01:39:51.000 Are businesses driving morality?

01:39:53.000 Yeah.

01:39:54.000 Businesses have never driven morality.

01:39:57.000 Guys, guys, guys, guys, this is what the movies are about.

01:39:57.000 I am saying that.

01:40:01.000 Sargon, please respond to that.

01:40:03.000 And then Nick, if you'd like to go in and Destiny and Hassan, and we could wrap it up.

01:40:05.000 Yeah.

01:40:06.000 Okay.

01:40:07.000 There is just no doubt about this.

01:40:09.000 You guys living in Alabama.

01:40:11.000 It's fine.

01:40:11.000 Wait, wait, your mic cut out.

01:40:12.000 Could you repeat that?

01:40:13.000 You said there's no doubt about this.

01:40:14.000 You said there's no doubt about this.

01:40:16.000 You guys can live in denial about this if you want.

01:40:18.000 But the people who make these movies have morals of their own.

01:40:22.000 And the people who fund these things have morals of their own.

01:40:24.000 Of course, they obviously have physical, pragmatic, necessary requirements on them.

01:40:31.000 And this is why I think that there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes about, well, probably serious conversations about the profitability of woke movies.

01:40:40.000 And in many ways, they don't seem very profitable.

01:40:43.000 But there's no doubt that there's a push towards this.

01:40:45.000 The directors will tell you this.

01:40:46.000 The actors will tell you this.

01:40:47.000 I don't see why we would sit there and say that they don't have this agenda because we're Marxists, I guess.

01:40:52.000 Because we sit there and say that every capitalist is.

01:40:54.000 Evidence is not on your side.

01:41:00.000 I thought we were all making a lot of money.

01:41:06.000 Isn't this like kind of your bread and butter?

01:41:07.000 I'm surprised that you actually don't have any empirical data to back up your statements right now, given the fact that this is like the majority of our analysis, right?

01:41:15.000 You're saying these movies are failing.

01:41:16.000 Like, the two highest grossing movies last year were The Black Panther and The Avengers Infinity War.

01:41:21.000 Your argument about the right wing media was that the two, just because the biggest were leftist, doesn't mean the majority.

01:41:27.000 Well, aren't the majority of movies now like SJW propaganda? 0.99

01:41:30.000 Isn't that like your argument that all the movies today are like all SJW shit? 0.99

01:41:33.000 They all seem to still be making a fuck ton of money, right? 1.00

01:41:35.000 Shit. 1.00

01:41:35.000 No. 1.00

01:41:36.000 Well, I think the two movies that people are probably talking about are Captain Marvel and Black Panther, right?

01:41:41.000 Sargon, if you want to conclude your concluding statement, and then we can go over to Nate.

01:41:45.000 Yes.

01:41:46.000 There is definitely a political agenda being driven in movies.

01:41:49.000 Now, Luckily, some of them, like Captain Marvel and Black Panther, do very well.

01:41:53.000 Many of them don't do very well.

01:41:54.000 And I think this is going to be something with diminishing returns as we go into the future.

01:41:58.000 There we go.

01:41:59.000 Okay.

01:42:00.000 Nick, do you have anything to add?

01:42:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:42:02.000 You know, obviously, it all started out about Mueller, but it quickly became about media bias.

01:42:08.000 Everybody knows this.

01:42:09.000 Everybody knows that the media bias is in news media.

01:42:12.000 Everybody knows the liberal bias is in Hollywood.

01:42:15.000 We know it exists everywhere, and we're living in it.

01:42:18.000 I mean, there's just simply no disputing that.

01:42:20.000 And we're talking about.

01:42:22.000 Movies like Captain Marvel and Black Panther, but you could look at advertisements, you could look at sitcoms, you could look at video games.

01:42:27.000 Why is it the case now that every movie I look at, the protagonist is there's a girl, but she's special?

01:42:34.000 There's something different about her. 0.98

01:42:35.000 She's actually kind of quirky and she's going to kick ass and save the world. 0.97

01:42:39.000 I mean, that's every movie now. 1.00

01:42:41.000 And there's every video game. 0.97

01:42:42.000 Battlefield 5, that new Far Cry game where the protagonists are like black lesbians or something. 1.00

01:42:48.000 I mean, we know the Versace advertisement. 1.00

01:42:50.000 They're trying to sell fucking perfume. 0.99

01:42:52.000 And what do they got on the front cover? 1.00

01:42:53.000 Anyone want to take a look?

01:42:55.000 And again, and I do want to clarify, there's the last thing I'll say, which is what Sargon said.

01:43:00.000 We're not saying that the people at the top, we're not saying that the major CEOs and CFOs and owners are saying. 0.88

01:43:06.000 Yeah, yeah, get a little interracial kissing in there. 0.98

01:43:09.000 Yeah, yeah, make that character homosexual or something. 0.98

01:43:12.000 We're not saying that it's coming from the top down.

01:43:14.000 What we're saying is that the people that are actually directing these things have an agenda.

01:43:18.000 People that are directing the advertisements.

01:43:20.000 For example, in Stranger Things, this was a popular thing that was going on on our side of the internet.

01:43:25.000 In the second season of Stranger Things, I guess a white girl kissed a black boy or something to that effect.

01:43:31.000 And it came out like, why did that happen?

01:43:32.000 What wasn't even in the script?

01:43:34.000 The director said, why don't you just do that?

01:43:36.000 Now, did somebody come down from the top and say, hey, We need a kiss like this.

01:43:39.000 This is going to make more money.

01:43:40.000 Or was it a director with a personal bias who said something like this might be good for my agenda?

01:43:46.000 Whatever that might be.

01:43:47.000 So, and that this is controversial, that this is even an argument just shows how out of touch and disingenuous you guys are being because I think everybody knows the world we're living in.

01:43:57.000 That's one thing we can't.

01:43:58.000 Okay.

01:43:58.000 All right.

01:43:59.000 The fact that you want to bring up interracial kissing as a part of your media analysis genuinely shows me how far you're going to go.

01:44:08.000 Imagine thinking that you said. 0.86

01:44:10.000 Can't wait.

01:44:11.000 Can I ask the question?

01:44:13.000 Please let Hassan finish.

01:44:14.000 All right, I'll let him finish.

01:44:16.000 That was really good, Nick.

01:44:17.000 That was a really clever rebuttal. 0.61

01:44:20.000 Before we move on to the next question, I love that you want to be taken seriously as a commentator, and yet you unironically get triggered by a black person and a white person kissing in a Netflix movie. 0.70

01:44:20.000 Well, hang on. 0.70

01:44:33.000 I don't think anybody said that.

01:44:34.000 That is social progress. 0.99

01:44:35.000 Who gives a fuck? 0.99

01:44:37.000 That's the whole point. 1.00

01:44:38.000 Like, who gives a fuck one way or the other? 0.98

01:44:40.000 Ultimately, is it making money or is it not making money? 0.99

01:44:42.000 If you think that. 0.93

01:44:43.000 If you think that movies have a moral interest in pushing a narrative and changing social culture beyond like the people who are trying to do it in like little ways, in the way that you apparently, you know, interracial mixing is also a problem. 0.83

01:44:56.000 But beyond that, if you think that there is this larger idea, then you have to prove it.

01:45:01.000 You have to tell me that like this doesn't just, this isn't just successful because people want to watch this sort of stuff.

01:45:07.000 You have to show me that despite the fact that these companies are failing, they're still doing it.

01:45:11.000 What do you consider proof in this regard?

01:45:11.000 Okay.

01:45:13.000 Is the directors and the actors.

01:45:16.000 Let's continue.

01:45:17.000 Let's conclude the statement.

01:45:18.000 I think Sargon wanted to make a quick, please, very quick correction.

01:45:23.000 He wanted to make a correction to his past.

01:45:25.000 Make the correction and we'll go to Destiny immediately.

01:45:27.000 Please make it very quick.

01:45:29.000 So in 2018, Disney's profits were down 18%, 17%, and they've canceled all the other Star Wars spin offs because they got woke and went broke.

01:45:37.000 It's killing Disney. 1.00

01:45:38.000 No, it's because they're shit. 1.00

01:45:39.000 The prequels were shit too. 1.00

01:45:42.000 They're shit because of identity politics, mate. 1.00

01:45:44.000 Why were the prequels shit? 1.00

01:45:46.000 The prequels check as George Lucas is an out of touch old dude. 0.92

01:45:48.000 Do you see the difference there?

01:45:49.000 Do you see why identitarians get so mad at you? 0.99

01:45:51.000 Because you just said that the prequels are shit because they're bad movies on their own merit, but the sequels were shit because of identity politics. 1.00

01:45:56.000 Maybe they were just shit movies. 0.99

01:45:57.000 They certainly were shit movies, but the cause of them being shit movies isn't the same for the. 0.99

01:46:02.000 Can you tell me what part of the Star Wars movie was ruined because of identity politics? 0.99

01:46:06.000 Was it that the main character was a woman or was it really wacky? 0.94

01:46:07.000 I'll give you my opinion if you like. 1.00

01:46:10.000 But the point is, the new Star Wars movies are not raking in the dosh and they're being canceled because Disney is costing money.

01:46:10.000 Sure.

01:46:16.000 Like, Hassan's like. 1.00

01:46:17.000 In a evil Jewish way, the new Star Wars movies aren't making money. 1.00

01:46:20.000 Despite the fact that movies are losing money, they're still pushing these movies because they want to push the moral narrative. 0.99

01:46:25.000 Doesn't that mean that Star Wars would still continue to make these movies then? 0.99

01:46:28.000 Holy shit! 0.99

01:46:29.000 Oh, wait, you're right! 1.00

01:46:29.000 You're just right! 1.00

01:46:30.000 What the fuck are you talking about, Sargon? 0.99

01:46:32.000 They can't do the booty thing. 1.00

01:46:32.000 You. 1.00

01:46:33.000 That's exactly what I'm saying.

01:46:35.000 Let Sargon finish completely.

01:46:36.000 Please hold your thought.

01:46:40.000 Hassan, listen, right? 0.98

01:46:42.000 The Jewish billionaires that you are so interested in and hate so much are concerned with their profits. 0.95

01:46:48.000 The people down the chain who are interested in morals are the ones losing their money and they've cancelled the Star Wars films because the people further down the chain are fucking it up, pushing a moral message. 0.94

01:47:00.000 I don't know how much clearer I can make.

01:47:02.000 Can I just, I just want to give three facts real quick, real quick.

01:47:02.000 Okay, wait.

01:47:05.000 Wait, three quick facts, okay?

01:47:05.000 The Force Awakens, the Force Awakens, wait, let Asma go, Asma go, please go ahead and then Destiny.

01:47:09.000 I want to clarify what he's saying, just so everybody is on the same page here.

01:47:13.000 What you're saying is that the people in the middle, Sargon, are basically making decisions that are making the people at the top lose money.

01:47:21.000 Absolutely.

01:47:23.000 And in response to that, the people at the top are preventing the people in the middle from continuing to make films.

01:47:29.000 Well, they're canceling the franchise, yeah.

01:47:30.000 Right, yeah, they're canceling it.

01:47:31.000 Okay, Destiny. 0.99

01:47:32.000 The Force Awakens, okay, one of the most Cucked films of all time, okay? 0.76

01:47:36.000 The story of a cucked white man getting taken over by a strong black man and a female lead made $2 billion, okay? 0.98

01:47:43.000 The Last Jedi, another story of horrible, evil white men, blah, blah, blah, made $1.3 billion. 0.99

01:47:48.000 These are the SJW failing horrible movies. 0.90

01:47:50.000 But then our movie that has strong white lead male character Solo, that only made $392 million. 0.96

01:47:55.000 That's, by the way, why those movies, why the Obi Wan movie is getting canceled, is because of how fucking horrible Solo did, which was a white, straight male. 0.96

01:48:02.000 Do you think that they fucked that one up because. 0.98

01:48:05.000 Wait.

01:48:05.000 Do you think that instead, do you think instead of solo for having this, the white straight male, should they have like made like a female lead or a black lead?

01:48:11.000 Do you think that would have been Rogue One Day?

01:48:14.000 Um, Rogue One box office.

01:48:17.000 1.05 billion. 1.00

01:48:19.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:48:19.000 It's been a consistent decline since The Last Jedi. 1.00

01:48:23.000 Your movie makes a billion dollars?

01:48:25.000 I don't think that's a, I don't think people see that as necessarily making a billion.

01:48:28.000 I'm sure you don't, but they've canceled further spinoffs because they're not.

01:48:31.000 Well, I'm pretty sure the cancellation, I'm pretty sure the cancellation of the spinoffs happened because of how.

01:48:35.000 Horrible Solo did not because Rogue One made a billion dollars.

01:48:38.000 No, just a second.

01:48:40.000 Yeah, but the other three made over a billion dollars, right?

01:48:44.000 You said Rogue One and the other two stars.

01:48:46.000 And also, Rogue One made a billion dollars.

01:48:47.000 That came out before The Last Jedi, which made 1.3 billion dollars.

01:48:51.000 So it's okay.

01:48:52.000 This conversation is getting ridiculous. 0.54

01:48:54.000 Can we get past this point now?

01:48:55.000 Because obviously, I think Sargon already admitted that the profit motive is still very much in effect when Hollywood factors in making new movies.

01:49:05.000 I don't think we were arguing the same thing.

01:49:07.000 I think you're arguing that.

01:49:09.000 Making is a profit making business.

01:49:10.000 I don't think anybody disputed that.

01:49:12.000 What we're saying is that there is obviously a social agenda being implemented by the people making these features.

01:49:18.000 And that's not, again, if you're looking at a corporation as it's Walt Disney who makes the movies and he's the head of the company.

01:49:25.000 So you're saying that eventually, eventually, movies are going to not make profit.

01:49:30.000 That's what you're saying if they continue to go away.

01:49:32.000 I don't know what this position is on the profit.

01:49:34.000 The point is that the people that are directing these things have a social agenda that they're implementing.

01:49:40.000 The point is not that.

01:49:41.000 There are people at the top that are commanding down, and there's this grand conspiracy working.

01:49:47.000 Clearly, who are the types that produce films?

01:49:49.000 Who are the types that end up in these creative type positions?

01:49:53.000 We know their bias.

01:49:54.000 That's all that the argument was about.

01:49:56.000 You're trying to say, you guys are wrong because they're canceling unprofitable movies.

01:50:00.000 Well, nobody said that they were pursuing this in spite of profit.

01:50:03.000 We're saying there is a social agenda, which is two different arguments.

01:50:06.000 Well, no, it's literally a dichotomy.

01:50:07.000 You either pursue a social agenda or you maximize profits.

01:50:10.000 We're saying that maximize profits are two different parts.

01:50:10.000 It's one or the other.

01:50:13.000 We're talking about an organization which.

01:50:16.000 Is not monolithic as Sargon said earlier.

01:50:19.000 What Nick is trying to say is that there are two separate parties.

01:50:21.000 There are the people that are trying to make all the money and the people that are trying to assert their social opinions.

01:50:26.000 No, I understand that.

01:50:28.000 It's frustrating for me because it's extremely distinct.

01:50:30.000 Are you guys aware of how Hollywood works at all, or are you just speculating?

01:50:34.000 There is no way that there is not a single movie that gets made for $200 million where every inch of that movie isn't regulated and goes all the way back to the financial institutions where they can take a look at what's going on and ensure that it's still profitable and means tested and market ready.

01:50:56.000 Do you really think that they would not allow mid level people to just sneakily include.

01:51:02.000 Social justice messages into it.

01:51:04.000 It's like a Christmas sun.

01:51:06.000 It's the directors that are doing this.

01:51:09.000 Okay.

01:51:09.000 They're very open about it.

01:51:11.000 Okay, but they would never be able to get away with it, is my point.

01:51:14.000 How did they lose money then?

01:51:16.000 If it wasn't like that, they would never be able to get away with it, which is precisely why you can't honestly bring up a point where a company has gone under because they've tried social justice too much. 0.89

01:51:28.000 I think this company has gotten to be a little bit ridiculous. 0.93

01:51:31.000 I agree. 0.57

01:51:32.000 Can I ask to make a simple yes or no question and then I won't have a I won't ever rebuttal.

01:51:37.000 You know, it's not going to be a yes or no.

01:51:38.000 No, no, it'll be really simple yes or no.

01:51:40.000 I'm genuinely just curious.

01:51:41.000 No, no, you don't have to answer yes or no.

01:51:43.000 You can explain more if you want.

01:51:44.000 Do you think it's immoral in media to show interracial relationships?

01:51:47.000 I don't think it's immoral.

01:51:48.000 I just don't want a social agenda being pushed by a social agenda which is so deliberate.

01:51:54.000 I mean, that's what offends me the fact that it's so obvious and out there.

01:51:58.000 And yeah, it's not something that I believe in.

01:52:00.000 It's something I disagree with.

01:52:01.000 I don't believe that people making advertisements should be trying to control or manipulate what we believe about certain things.

01:52:07.000 And certainly not in that direction.

01:52:09.000 Okay, but you don't have any problem.

01:52:10.000 Well, no, you said certainly not in that direction.

01:52:13.000 Does that mean that you have a specific inclination against interracial relationships? 0.98

01:52:18.000 Yeah, I don't think it's something that should be promoted.

01:52:20.000 I don't think so.

01:52:21.000 Okay, all right.

01:52:22.000 Let's just go on to the next topic.

01:52:22.000 Let's go ahead.

01:52:24.000 I like the laughing.

01:52:26.000 That'll be really funny when you guys are bred out of existence.

01:52:29.000 All right.

01:52:30.000 You don't know, man. 0.94

01:52:31.000 My life is so fucking hard. 1.00

01:52:32.000 I can't find any girls because they're just not black enough. 1.00

01:52:34.000 They don't want anything to do with white people anymore. 1.00

01:52:36.000 All right, all right, all right. 0.94

01:52:37.000 So, speaking of that.

01:52:39.000 How does it make you feel that?

01:52:42.000 I am, Your gene pool is diluted, so you technically are also going to be.

01:53:08.000 Guys, stop these ad hominem. 0.92

01:53:13.000 Hey, stop these ad homs. 1.00

01:53:16.000 Relax. 0.99

01:53:17.000 All right.

01:53:18.000 As we go.

01:53:19.000 That's why I tried to end.

01:53:20.000 As soon as Nick said that, I tried to go to the next topic.

01:53:22.000 It didn't work.

01:53:23.000 As we go.

01:53:24.000 As we go.

01:53:25.000 Just let him drop that in there.

01:53:27.000 All right.

01:53:28.000 Next one we want to talk about is the New Zealand church shooting.

01:53:31.000 Now, the tragedy, and this is what we're going to be reading this off the same as Train did.

01:53:36.000 The tragedy in Christchurch, New Zealand, where 50 people were killed and 50 others were injured while attending a mosque, has promoted many media outlets to ask what part of online content creators play.

01:53:46.000 And the radicalization of terrorist attacks.

01:53:48.000 The debate following the shooter's posting on 8chan, stating, subscribe to PewDiePie, and referencing many popular internet memes in a manifesto he released prior to the attack.

01:53:58.000 He also stated plainly in said manifesto that he had done these things in order to try and sow dissent between the left and the right and try to further radicalize others, a point that hasn't stopped the subsequent calls for censorship.

01:54:12.000 Does this panel honestly believe that the shooter was radicalized or directly incited to commit this crime by YouTubers and content creators he followed?

01:54:20.000 And if so, is an appropriate response to deplatform anyone who is considered irresponsibly right wing?

01:54:26.000 I think that we should start this off.

01:54:28.000 Actually, Asmund, before we actually start this, I wanted to give you guys the opportunity.

01:54:33.000 If any of you need to use the restroom or get a water, this would be the time.

01:54:37.000 That does sound good, actually. 0.99

01:54:39.000 He's going to fucking run ads, boys. 0.99

01:54:41.000 He's going to run ads. 1.00

01:54:42.000 Take the time.

01:54:44.000 I got to pee real bad.

01:54:45.000 Let him talk.

01:54:47.000 Yep.

01:54:48.000 All right.

01:54:49.000 What's a good time?

01:54:50.000 Two minutes?

01:54:50.000 You want two minutes?

01:54:51.000 One minute?

01:54:52.000 I'll need more than that.

01:54:53.000 Five at least.

01:54:54.000 Five minutes?

01:54:54.000 I'll have a cigarette as well.

01:54:56.000 We'll take a five minute little break.

01:54:56.000 Okay.

01:54:59.000 And then we'll continue with this.

01:55:00.000 I'll read it one more time once everyone gets back.

01:55:02.000 Go ahead and turn your cameras off if you'd like.

01:55:05.000 And we can get started again in five minutes.

01:55:07.000 I'll put a timer on.

02:02:04.000 He does?

02:02:06.000 Well, no, I mean, I largely agree with you.

02:02:07.000 To come to the middle a little bit, Nick, I kind of sort of, I mean, like, there's probably a chance, or I would say there's a high probability that any individual actor, not like an actor, but any individual player in large media might be able to push a little bit in some direction morally.

02:02:24.000 Maybe if they want to cast an interracial, maybe they might have that much sway.

02:02:28.000 I don't even know if I give them that much. 0.67

02:02:30.000 But the massive idea that capitalism is an effective means to kind of push.

02:02:36.000 Progressive societies, or to push like progression in moral systems.

02:02:40.000 I think that businesses usually lag behind cultural trends like pretty hard when it comes to pushing, you know, unless it makes money.

02:02:40.000 I just don't think that's true.

02:02:46.000 Well, yeah, that's what I mean.

02:02:47.000 Unless it makes money, unless society's already ready to accept it.

02:02:50.000 I don't think we're going to have like the media start to be like a driving narrative there.

02:02:52.000 All right, guys, everyone's back.

02:02:54.000 Um, I'm going to go ahead and re um go through it again, ask the question again, go over it.

02:02:59.000 Um, for everyone that's new that missed it, um, that's in the chat, and for you guys, just kind of give you a little uh recap.

02:03:06.000 Um, So, this next topic will be regarding the Christchurch shooting aftermath.

02:03:14.000 The tragedy in Christchurch, New Zealand, where 50 people were killed and 50 others injured while attending a mosque, has prompted many media outlets to ask what part online content creators play in the radicalization of terrorist attackers.

02:03:27.000 This debate, following the shooter's posting at 8chan, stating, subscribe to PewDiePie, and referencing many popular internet memes in the manifesto he released prior to the attack.

02:03:35.000 He also stated plainly, In said manifesto, that he had done this, done these things in order to try and sow dissent between the left and right groups to try and further radicalize others.

02:03:45.000 A point that hasn't stopped the subsequent calls for censorship.

02:03:48.000 Does the panel honestly believe that the shooter was radicalized or directly incited to commit his crime by YouTubers and content creators he followed?

02:03:55.000 And if so, is the appropriate response to de platform anyone who is considered irresponsibly right wing?

02:04:01.000 I think the best place to start here would probably be Nick.

02:04:04.000 I mean, he was part of the Charlottesville, you know, the.

02:04:07.000 What would you really call that?

02:04:09.000 The get together, the riot, whatever you want to say.

02:04:12.000 And obviously, it was Nazi protest.

02:04:15.000 Okay.

02:04:16.000 And, you know, you were involved with that.

02:04:19.000 And so, how do you feel like this was in any way influenced by that Charlottesville event?

02:04:26.000 And do you feel like this person who did commit the shooting in New Zealand was influenced by these people on YouTube?

02:04:33.000 Yeah, that's a good question.

02:04:36.000 You know, I'll say at the outset that.

02:04:41.000 Advocacy for violence by people on the right, and particularly the white identitarian or white advocacy, even people adjacent to that, is basically not tolerated.

02:04:51.000 So, for example, if you look at any number of right wing or white identitarian content creators, you really can't find among them one that is explicitly calling for something like this.

02:05:02.000 Even somebody like Richard Spencer, who I think everybody would say is the leader of the alt right and the progenitor of even the term alt right as the protege of.

02:05:12.000 Paul Gottfried, they created that term.

02:05:14.000 Even he doesn't say that you should go out and commit acts like this.

02:05:17.000 So it's hard for me to say that there's a genesis for that in content creation explicitly.

02:05:24.000 I will say, however, and this isn't whataboutism.

02:05:28.000 I know people are going to say this is whataboutism, but I'll explain myself because it's an important point to make.

02:05:33.000 You had this shooting on a Friday. 0.79

02:05:35.000 A few days later, you had a shooting in the Netherlands committed by a Muslim.

02:05:39.000 The day after, you had an Italian migrant from Senegal.

02:05:43.000 Set a school bus on fire with 50 children inside, and he was protesting these migrant policies that Salvini was implementing.

02:05:49.000 And I don't mean to say that to say everybody does things. 0.88

02:05:53.000 Well, and that is partially true. 0.91

02:05:55.000 But the important point to make here is that the natural consequence of multiracialism, the natural consequence of multiculturalism, is conflict. 0.82

02:06:04.000 And so I see an act like this being carried out as basically inevitable. 0.92

02:06:07.000 This is something I've been warning about for years.

02:06:10.000 You know, a lot of people say that I'm alt right or a white nationalist.

02:06:14.000 An alt right white nationalist type of person wants to create an ethnostate.

02:06:18.000 They want to take America and either deport non white people or segment off their white separatists.

02:06:23.000 They want to segment off a white section, secede, something like that, which is not something I believe in.

02:06:28.000 I think that we've basically made our bed demographically.

02:06:31.000 You know, things are going to happen. 0.80

02:06:33.000 White people become a minority. 0.84

02:06:34.000 But I believe that there are certain consequences from this, which is that you have a lot of different people coming together with a lot of different values, a lot of different cultures, a lot of different beliefs. 0.89

02:06:44.000 When they're all living in close proximity and they're fighting for the same resources from government, they're fighting for the same jobs and things like that, when they're, again, right up against each other, sharing the same transportation, sharing the same public facilities, and so on, the natural inclination.

02:06:59.000 Is violence.

02:07:00.000 And you can say that that's a bad thing.

02:07:01.000 I agree.

02:07:02.000 I'm not trying to justify or rationalize.

02:07:04.000 I think violence is always a bad thing.

02:07:06.000 I'm very anti violence. 1.00

02:07:08.000 However, I don't think you can separate the consequence of this multiracialism policy so cleanly. 1.00

02:07:15.000 You know, I think you see it everybody when they get smashed together, you get this kind of conflict. 0.98

02:07:20.000 So, sure, you know, you could see that he probably uses some of the same talking points as a lot of YouTubers.

02:07:25.000 You, you, you don't call for mosque shootings.

02:07:28.000 But I think, regardless of who you look at or what content they look at, This is the consequence of a lot of different people, diversity, essentially, living together in one country. 0.66

02:07:39.000 Do you think types of YouTubers led him in the direction of doing this? 0.64

02:07:43.000 Maybe they didn't necessarily tell him, go shoot up a mosque, but they led him down the ideology that gave him the conclusion to shoot up a mosque. 0.77

02:07:52.000 Well, insofar as he was stating facts about white displacement in white countries, you could say that he got that data, but that data is available from the government.

02:08:05.000 I think.

02:08:05.000 Who was really culpable for this kind of thing is the censors, is the media.

02:08:10.000 Because you want to know the truth, and this is something I've been talking about on my show for a long time.

02:08:14.000 The reason you get violent people is they say, there's no way for me to fix what I see happening in the country through government or media.

02:08:22.000 I can't talk about it.

02:08:23.000 I'd lose my job.

02:08:24.000 I'd get my social media account shut down.

02:08:26.000 The people in media aren't talking about it.

02:08:28.000 The politicians aren't talking about it.

02:08:30.000 I cannot affect change within the system through legitimate means.

02:08:33.000 What's the only alternative in that event?

02:08:35.000 Now, it's not irrational.

02:08:37.000 Thing to do.

02:08:38.000 You know, a rational person does not say, I'm going to be a martyr, because obviously, not only are the effects the opposite of what you want, but also this is not, I mean, this is not something that an obscene, normal person does to go up and, you know, shoot up a place of worship.

02:08:52.000 So I think that more than anybody who's culpable is the people saying that, you know, if we're trying to express grievance about what's happening to countries or what's happening with demographics, and that conversation is shut down, people are denied a seat at the table.

02:09:04.000 I think the conclusion then is for certain types, for certain types of Psychopaths in the society is, well, I'll take matters into my own hand.

02:09:13.000 So I think the real.

02:09:15.000 Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

02:09:17.000 Yeah, no, I do.

02:09:18.000 Well, let me finish this.

02:09:20.000 So your argument basically is that this violence is an outcome of these people not feeling like they can achieve any sort of a change or be able to even approach a change on their own terms.

02:09:33.000 And so they resort to violence.

02:09:35.000 Is that basically what?

02:09:36.000 Okay, well, let's go over to Sargon.

02:09:38.000 Sargon, you have a YouTube channel, and a lot of people call you right wing.

02:09:43.000 Accurate or inaccurate, that's what they say.

02:09:46.000 Do you feel like this person was influenced at all by people on YouTube?

02:09:50.000 Maybe not like yourself, but like other people that are on there that are making content that could lead him in this direction.

02:10:00.000 I think it's a very misleading question to think that any one political direction ends in violence.

02:10:10.000 The problem isn't that communities exist.

02:10:14.000 The problem, I think that Nick actually really hit the nail on the head there, is when people feel that they cannot actually get any kind of legitimate.

02:10:21.000 Dress for their grievances.

02:10:23.000 And I think a really good example of this is actually the YouTube shooter.

02:10:27.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

02:10:28.000 She was just demonetized.

02:10:30.000 She didn't come from a deeply ideological community.

02:10:33.000 I mean, she might have done, but that wasn't the reason that she did this.

02:10:36.000 She went and did it because she just felt she had no rights against YouTube.

02:10:40.000 And it was obviously something that was deeply important to her, the fact that she could make videos.

02:10:45.000 So I think that it's kind of a red herring.

02:10:49.000 Because, I mean, if it was the alt right that was just a So, effectively, like a jihadi community, then why aren't we seeing alt right murders literally every day, you know, like we do with jihadis?

02:11:00.000 In fact, you know, it's not something that I think is necessarily inherent to any one community because, I mean, literally everyone has their shooters, you know, every single community.

02:11:10.000 Point to a community, and I'll be able to point you to the shooters that come out of it.

02:11:15.000 I think it's an act of desperation by individuals who just feel they just have nothing else to lose.

02:11:21.000 So, you guys are in agreement there, basically.

02:11:23.000 Well, yeah, on this particular analysis, yeah, I think.

02:11:26.000 All right.

02:11:27.000 And, I mean, again, like, to suggest that this is any one person, well, I mean, we know what radicalized the guy.

02:11:34.000 He was very explicit about this in his manifesto, and it wasn't social media.

02:11:38.000 So, this is, again, a total red herring.

02:11:42.000 Wait, why did he do the shootings?

02:11:43.000 You said you know why.

02:11:44.000 Because he went to France.

02:11:46.000 Okay.

02:11:48.000 And what was his.

02:11:48.000 Do you want me to read it out for you?

02:11:49.000 I actually have it up on my screen here.

02:11:51.000 Well, I mean, I've read it all.

02:11:53.000 I'm just curious what your interpretation is.

02:11:57.000 Let's go ahead.

02:12:02.000 Well, I mean, my interpretation is his literal.

02:12:10.000 Let's have Hassan and Destiny give us their take, and then we can confer.

02:12:14.000 Or you guys can confer.

02:12:15.000 Let's talk about what he said specifically.

02:12:18.000 Go ahead, Destiny.

02:12:19.000 You started off.

02:12:21.000 So, the question of whether or not a YouTuber made this particular guy go out and do a shooting is going to be really hard to establish that chain.

02:12:30.000 If you did read this guy's manifesto, this guy was like an extreme alt right figure.

02:12:34.000 So, for instance, he viewed all Muslims in every country as foreign invaders.

02:12:38.000 And at this point, he thought that government was ineffective as a means to actually remove them from the country. 0.85

02:12:42.000 So, like Nick said, he did feel like he couldn't rely on government to do something, but he wanted to rely on government to literally kick out all Muslims from New Zealand. 0.99

02:12:49.000 So, he felt that he needed to go to a place and target and kill the most amount of Muslims possible. 0.99

02:12:53.000 And he went to a mosque and did it. 0.98

02:12:55.000 I don't know what the alternative to that is. 0.97

02:12:57.000 If Nick is suggesting that maybe we need ways for these people to address their grievances about, Muslims existing in countries.

02:13:02.000 I know that he vaguely referred to a couple of, I guess, attacks by migrants in other countries to show that migrants are bad or something.

02:13:10.000 I am familiar with the one thing that he referenced.

02:13:11.000 Please let Destiny finish. 0.96

02:13:13.000 Yeah, I am familiar with the one that Italian hijacking, that dude that was going to blow that bus up.

02:13:17.000 The person that actually stopped that from happening was actually a little Egyptian kid that Italy is now granting citizenship to because that 13 year old kid actually called his dad on the phone while he was pretending to pray while the guy was collecting phones.

02:13:27.000 I am familiar with that story.

02:13:28.000 I don't know about the rest of them. 1.00

02:13:29.000 Maybe they're bullshit. 1.00

02:13:29.000 I don't know. 1.00

02:13:31.000 But regardless, I mean, I do think that like, Hateful rhetoric can lead to hateful acts of violence.

02:13:36.000 I mean, that chain is to establish that is very complicated.

02:13:39.000 You know, people maybe listen to a few jokes in one place, start posting on poll in another place, start getting drafted into more extremist groups, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

02:13:45.000 There are a lot of people that are really good gateways for this.

02:13:46.000 I mean, people have written up so many different types of studies for how you can start watching a Joe Rogan video and then go to Jordan Peterson and then wind up with more extremist figures like Nick Fuentes or maybe Lauren Southern or something like that.

02:13:57.000 And then you eventually go down that extremist road.

02:14:00.000 But establishing that chain is a very complicated, very difficult thing to do.

02:14:03.000 But I mean, to deny it's possible, though, right?

02:14:07.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:14:07.000 Yeah, of course.

02:14:08.000 And also, I think at the beginning of your statement, you did kind of give a little bit of credence to Nick and also Sargon's point that maybe he acted out in this way because he didn't feel like.

02:14:19.000 He was able to discuss these issues without being isolated or hated for it.

02:14:26.000 Oh, yeah, sure.

02:14:26.000 But that doesn't mean that I think that those views are legitimate or need to be platformed.

02:14:30.000 I think that's a bad dichotomy, right? 0.97

02:14:31.000 If somebody says, like, I want to kill all black people, like, well, I'm going to fire you if you say that on Twitter, and then they go out and they actually kill black people because they got banned from Twitter, you wouldn't say, well, hold on. 0.99

02:14:38.000 Like, should we be suppressing this man's views? 0.99

02:14:40.000 He felt like he had no way to express them, and now he actually went, well, no.

02:14:43.000 I mean, the idea is we need to not have people have these horrendously anti immigrant views in society, right?

02:14:48.000 So views like Fuentes Bush's, for instance, where he seems to be anti immigrant or anti.

02:14:51.000 Person of color, whatever, moving into certain countries where he feels like it violates their Western culture or whatever, however he dealt with it.

02:14:57.000 Yeah, just a lot of straw men here. 0.92

02:14:59.000 Well, let's go ahead and let's go over to Hassan.

02:15:01.000 Hassan, go ahead.

02:15:02.000 So before we get started, I just want to say I want to commend Nick for being a phenomenal orator and sneaking in multiple lines in there, for example, including calling the shooter a martyr and making it seem as though it was an unavoidable.

02:15:02.000 Okay.

02:15:22.000 And ultimately, a rational cause that he had to go out and shoot someone.

02:15:27.000 I mean, obviously, I mean, there was just no other way. 0.58

02:15:29.000 There was simply no other way for the shooter to express his outrage for coexisting with humans that look a little different than them.

02:15:38.000 Maybe, which is insane to me.

02:15:40.000 Beyond that, the problem right now is that these sorts of lone wolf style attacks is considered as, and I might have a hard time saying this word, stochastic terrorism, okay?

02:15:51.000 Stochastic terrorism is when, um, There is an overwhelming amount of public demonization that leads to a person or a group that goes out and radicalizes through social media or other forms and commits an act of terror.

02:16:06.000 There is a reason why there are different restrictions placed upon hate speech or this sort of information being disseminated in other Western democratic nations.

02:16:19.000 And that reason isn't to hide the truth, it's actually to stop the misinformation from flooding.

02:16:26.000 And obviously, this has happened over and over again, and it's continuing to grow.

02:16:30.000 And overwhelmingly, it's right wing nationalism that is a gigantic problem here in the United States and somewhat worldwide as well.

02:16:42.000 Well, let's look at how much of a problem that actually is because, Sargon, you said a minute ago that you actually did have the manifesto up there and you wanted to explain what the shooter's actual intentions were.

02:16:53.000 So if you want to go ahead and expand on that.

02:16:56.000 Okay, well, before I do, I think.

02:16:59.000 Being the resident centrist in the room, I think it's important to note that the only reason we're concerned about right wing nationalism is because of the cultural dominance of the left.

02:17:10.000 Left wing ideas are platformed everywhere, radical left wing ideas are platformed everywhere.

02:17:15.000 And this is just something obviously the two left wingers here can't own, but it's definitely true. 0.95

02:17:22.000 And the reason that the far right, the sort of counterbalance to the Hassan Pikers of the world, aren't being platformed everywhere else is because of this. 0.99

02:17:33.000 And it's not because their ideas aren't horrific. 0.99

02:17:35.000 They are horrific.

02:17:37.000 But I don't think it's just counterproductive.

02:17:40.000 Can you describe what my perspective is that is violent, just as violent as a Nazi claiming that race mixing is the same as genocide?

02:17:51.000 I don't think I said that.

02:17:53.000 Yeah, I don't think I said that.

02:17:55.000 No, you said that left wing ideas that are extreme are being platformed, right?

02:18:01.000 Whereas the right wing equivalent of those ideas are not.

02:18:05.000 And there is a major difference between the radical extreme ideas and the radical extreme right wing ideas.

02:18:12.000 So, I'm just trying to make sure that you understand that if someone is talking about an economic structure, which is what I do quite frequently, and seizing the means of production or redistributing wealth or giving people universal health care.

02:18:29.000 I mean, these are concepts that have been proven and have worked in all of these other countries.

02:18:34.000 And talking about them, we're nowhere near.

02:18:39.000 It's too big to say.

02:18:41.000 Can I finish?

02:18:42.000 Stop.

02:18:42.000 No, because what you've said is demonstrably false, right?

02:18:45.000 And it's going to lead us into a massive conversation about Marxism.

02:18:48.000 And it's not really worth getting into that because that will be.

02:18:50.000 No, it's not worth getting into it because I think you're a little out of your depth, and that's precisely what you're saying.

02:18:56.000 Well, I know I'm not.

02:18:57.000 And I'm just trying to remember.

02:18:57.000 I know that logic.

02:18:59.000 But we can discuss it another time.

02:18:59.000 No, I'm not.

02:19:01.000 We can do a stream where we discuss it.

02:19:02.000 Okay, the problem is Nazis are not the same as people who are on the left.

02:19:06.000 Communists.

02:19:06.000 All right, well, Nazis and communists are not the same thing.

02:19:09.000 Guys, let's calm down.

02:19:10.000 Let's fall back to the original question that Hassan had.

02:19:13.000 Can you give us an example?

02:19:15.000 Hassan asked a question to Sargon.

02:19:17.000 Can you give me an example of extreme left wing opinions?

02:19:23.000 Yeah, just any communist is an extreme left wing opinion.

02:19:26.000 Do you think that communist opinions are socially acceptable in the society right now?

02:19:31.000 No, well, they are, but they shouldn't be.

02:19:33.000 I mean, like, for example, in my country today, there's.

02:19:36.000 So you want censorship for the Nazis and the communists?

02:19:40.000 No, I think they should both be talked to, actually.

02:19:43.000 But what I mean is, I'll give you an example from my country.

02:19:45.000 We're a bit more left wing than America.

02:19:47.000 But your universities were overrun with this.

02:19:50.000 So there's a program called BBC Question Time.

02:19:53.000 The BBC is meant to be a neutral, impartial arbiter of discussion.

02:19:57.000 And the panel that they had was four left wingers, including a literal communist, and then a kind of centrist conservative being the counterpoint.

02:20:07.000 And in my country, that goes to show you just the overwhelming left wing bias.

02:20:10.000 Wait, hold on.

02:20:11.000 So your counterpoint to the left's version of the New Zealand shooter is a BBC show that nobody cares about that has four left wings on it.

02:20:18.000 No, it's not Destiny.

02:20:19.000 I know that you'd like to think that would be.

02:20:21.000 Well, keep going.

02:20:22.000 Keep going.

02:20:22.000 Just talk about examples of left wing violence that is similar in nature to right wing violence that we're seeing all around the world.

02:20:22.000 Sorry.

02:20:29.000 And then once you're done with that, could you point back to the Marxist theory that I made?

02:20:34.000 So, the terrorism worldwide, you've got the jihadis, then you've got communists, then you've got other.

02:20:40.000 And it's a massive gap between the jihadis and the communists, and then the communists and other.

02:20:45.000 So, you know, don't give me this, right?

02:20:47.000 Communism is inherently.

02:20:48.000 Is there a.

02:20:50.000 Is there like a network of communists?

02:20:51.000 I realize you don't want to hear, but from the liberal perspective, it's inherently violent.

02:20:56.000 And there's no getting around that.

02:20:58.000 I mean, it's in the manifesto.

02:20:59.000 Wait, what's inherently violent?

02:21:00.000 It's inherently revolutionary.

02:21:01.000 Communism.

02:21:02.000 We're really going to.

02:21:04.000 That's not true.

02:21:05.000 It's absolutely true, which is why communism has never even been attempted without violence.

02:21:10.000 Okay.

02:21:11.000 The reason.

02:21:12.000 There are many different schools of thought.

02:21:14.000 There are lots of excuses in some way.

02:21:15.000 Well, I mean, also, well, hold on.

02:21:17.000 This is why I didn't want to.

02:21:18.000 Wait, wait, wait.

02:21:19.000 Where does capitalism put it?

02:21:20.000 Guys, guys, guys.

02:21:21.000 Wait, wait, wait.

02:21:22.000 One at a time, Destiny.

02:21:23.000 Go ahead.

02:21:24.000 Let's let Destiny go ahead.

02:21:26.000 Where does capitalism exist without violence?

02:21:28.000 Like, you're part of your nation, it is like one of the most imperialist histories of all time.

02:21:32.000 The United States was founded on destroying the entire native population here and also rabid imperialism.

02:21:35.000 Where does capitalism exist without violence?

02:21:37.000 Did I say it wasn't?

02:21:38.000 Well, no, but I mean, if you're trying to point out.

02:21:41.000 Stop missing my point.

02:21:42.000 Wait, wait, no, no, wait.

02:21:42.000 I've made it.

02:21:43.000 Your point is vacuous if everything is violent.

02:21:45.000 No, absolutely not.

02:21:46.000 No, absolutely not.

02:21:47.000 There is.

02:21:47.000 You cannot say.

02:21:48.000 Wait, let me refocus.

02:21:49.000 Yeah, well, let's refocus.

02:21:50.000 So the question was what are some examples of left wing violence?

02:21:52.000 Because we have examples of left wing violence.

02:21:54.000 Look at communist revolutions.

02:21:55.000 Do you want me to give a list?

02:21:57.000 I mean, I can pull up a Wikipedia list if you want.

02:21:59.000 Wait, what about.

02:22:00.000 Hold on.

02:22:00.000 Wait, wait, wait.

02:22:01.000 No, no, no.

02:22:01.000 I'm not.

02:22:02.000 Hold on.

02:22:03.000 Hold on. 0.74

02:22:04.000 So if you have the USSR, right?

02:22:06.000 If you have the USSR, for example, the history of the USSR is a.

02:22:09.000 If that's your point of reference for a violent communist act or whatever, okay, which is not violence done in the name of communism, it's just, it's still technically.

02:22:17.000 Okay, just listen.

02:22:20.000 If that's your example, okay, sure, I'll concede that.

02:22:22.000 I'm not a solidist, unlike what you think.

02:22:25.000 I'm actually not a Marxist Leninist.

02:22:27.000 I don't believe in the vanguardist perspective.

02:22:28.000 But hold on. 0.99

02:22:29.000 Can you, what about what the fucking United States government does every single day? 0.99

02:22:35.000 What about the unjustifiable illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? 0.99

02:22:39.000 What about the fact that we have seven proxy wars that we're currently engaging in that are incredibly.

02:22:46.000 Does it make communism less violent?

02:22:49.000 Yes, it 1000% does.

02:22:54.000 Because the only example you can give against the structural violence that occurs every single day is the USSR, the communist revolution against the USSR.

02:23:05.000 I could pull up dozens of examples. 0.98

02:23:07.000 Yeah, and I could pull up 100 times worse shit that the United States has done in an effort to fucking end communism all around the world. 0.99

02:23:13.000 We're talking about terrorism right now. 0.99

02:23:16.000 Have any of that?

02:23:18.000 We're talking about left wing ideology.

02:23:19.000 That's the worst thing that happened to humanity in all of human history.

02:23:23.000 Okay, that's what he's saying.

02:23:26.000 I'm going to step in.

02:23:27.000 I'm going to step in.

02:23:29.000 Let Hassan finish his point.

02:23:30.000 Sargon, you can respond.

02:23:31.000 Then let Destiny and Nick go into it however they like.

02:23:33.000 We're going off of the least. 0.97

02:23:35.000 The only example of systemic violence brought about by bringing communism into action is nowhere near as bad as all of the fucking death toll under capitalism. 0.96

02:23:45.000 We talk about people dying in famines and whatnot under a communist dictatorship. 0.97

02:23:50.000 Seven million people every year die. 1.00

02:23:52.000 Because they don't have access to fucking food. 0.99

02:23:54.000 We have an abundance of food and people are still dying because of famine and other diseases that are born out of famine. 1.00

02:24:01.000 That is a consequence of the capitalist structure that we exist under, and yet you never point the finger at that.

02:24:06.000 The issue that I have with this is that we're talking currently about right wing terror versus left wing terror, okay?

02:24:14.000 Right wing terror versus left wing terror. 0.86

02:24:16.000 There's nothing like it's such a dumb rebuttal to be like, give me examples of how this has happened recently. 0.90

02:24:24.000 Like, yeah, like, terror groups are the most populous terror groups after jihadis around the world. 0.80

02:24:30.000 You've got all sorts of like, can you just, yeah, can you give me some?

02:24:34.000 How do you quantify that?

02:24:36.000 Okay, well, fine.

02:24:36.000 I'll look it up.

02:24:38.000 Well, okay.

02:24:39.000 I mean, I didn't know if you had enough.

02:24:42.000 I thought you might as well.

02:24:43.000 You don't have anything?

02:24:44.000 Like, you don't, you just say it.

02:24:46.000 Honey, he's gonna look it up without backing it up, or not knowing that it's like an actual, like, let him look it up. 0.77

02:24:52.000 Sorry, what are you asking me there, Hassan?

02:24:54.000 You said that, uh, the, Left wing populist, left wing groups are the most populist groups, terrorist groups, after jihadi groups.

02:25:03.000 That's what you said.

02:25:04.000 Yes.

02:25:05.000 I thought in the United States, isn't most of the people that were killed last year, or was it 2017? 1.00

02:25:11.000 You're going to trigger Nick, but it's all fuck. 1.00

02:25:14.000 Is there any non Jewish controlled study people that look into these types of stats that Nick would trust? 1.00

02:25:21.000 You know, it's funny. 1.00

02:25:22.000 I noticed that me and Sargon are actually trying to make cogent points, and it seems like there's just no shortage of misdirection, disingenuous, sort of smarmy.

02:25:30.000 Little remarks from you guys.

02:25:33.000 I think Sargon is trying to make the point that, and he said this at the beginning everybody has their shooters.

02:25:39.000 That was the point.

02:25:39.000 The point was to say that if you look at any political ideology that you could even interpret as moderate, none of them intrinsically are more violent than any other, or even if that's the case, then it's marginal.

02:25:51.000 Because we can look at something like Islam, for example. 0.73

02:25:54.000 Are we to say that the 30,000 terror attacks since 9 11 committed in the name of Islam is because Islam is intrinsically violent? 0.72

02:26:02.000 Now, you would probably disagree with that, but you say that to simply observe, These massive demographic changes that are happening in Western countries is, in and of itself, something that is a call to violence.

02:26:14.000 So, this sort of argument, which is so derivative about which has killed more, capitalism or communism, I think the point was to say that if you're advocating communism, certainly we can find people that have killed in the name of communism.

02:26:27.000 If you're advocating socialism, we can find people who have killed in the name of paganism in the last 10 years.

02:26:32.000 Well, yeah, so the common one is like that.

02:26:34.000 But, two, more importantly than that, sorry, Destiny, I just need to make one point.

02:26:38.000 One, you can't, and two, you can absolutely.

02:26:41.000 But more importantly than that, the ideology itself is an economic reorganization versus Nazism or fascism is based upon exclusion. 0.84

02:26:50.000 And the principle of exclusion is a never ending fucking series of people becoming more and more violent in an effort to push out these people.

02:26:59.000 And the many debates that you had with Destiny outed you for having this sort of perspective, in my opinion. 0.94

02:27:05.000 Again, with the passive aggressive sort of uptopic.

02:27:08.000 No, incorrect.

02:27:09.000 Number one, you can point to people.

02:27:09.000 Incorrect.

02:27:11.000 Who have killed in the name of left wing ideologies? 1.00

02:27:13.000 The Kurds in the Middle East are communists and they're among the most violent people in the world.

02:27:17.000 Yeah, they killed ISIS. 1.00

02:27:19.000 Are you stupid? 1.00

02:27:21.000 ISIS is fighting the Kurds. 1.00

02:27:22.000 The Kurds are Marxists. 1.00

02:27:24.000 They also fight the Kurds. 1.00

02:27:25.000 They're not Christian. 1.00

02:27:26.000 ISIS, dumbass. 1.00

02:27:28.000 No, Turkey considers them communist revolutionaries. 1.00

02:27:32.000 What a joke.

02:27:33.000 Turkey's not killing them because of communism. 0.93

02:27:35.000 Turkey's killing them because they're an ethnic minority that Turkey oppresses severely. 0.95

02:27:39.000 What a joke. 0.99

02:27:40.000 What a joke.

02:27:41.000 The Kurds are ISIS? 1.00

02:27:42.000 They're in favor of a fucking. 1.00

02:27:43.000 I'm fully in favor of an independent nation state of Kurdistan. 1.00

02:27:46.000 Okay, brother?

02:27:47.000 Let me tell you.

02:27:49.000 I don't even know what you're saying at this point.

02:27:53.000 You said that the Kurds are not left wing and Marxist.

02:27:59.000 No, of course they are.

02:28:00.000 But the people that are being violent are either the Turkish military or ISIS terrorists.

02:28:05.000 They commit terror attacks in Turkey all the time.

02:28:05.000 Excuse me.

02:28:08.000 Read about it.

02:28:09.000 Which is a terror cell, which I disagree with and I don't like.

02:28:13.000 Yeah, baby.

02:28:14.000 Okay, but you can't have it all ways then. 1.00

02:28:16.000 You said the Kurds are killing ISIS.

02:28:17.000 You can't have it all ways then. 1.00

02:28:18.000 Look at how ridiculous you look. 0.98

02:28:20.000 You just admitted that they have terracells, but I disagree with it. 0.97

02:28:23.000 Because I don't think that an entire ethnic identity is a monolith.

02:28:27.000 Okay, guys, let's calm down.

02:28:29.000 You and I have this.

02:28:30.000 You're not an identitarian.

02:28:32.000 Guys, let's calm down.

02:28:33.000 Guys, guys, relax.

02:28:35.000 Let's calm down, Asmund.

02:28:36.000 Go ahead.

02:28:36.000 You said less than 100, but you thought I said the Kurds are ISIS.

02:28:38.000 I said they're killing ISIS.

02:28:40.000 You have no understanding of this.

02:28:41.000 You have no understanding.

02:28:41.000 Please.

02:28:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:28:43.000 You're really mad, dude.

02:28:43.000 Guys, guys.

02:28:45.000 Guys, please stop.

02:28:46.000 Are we ever going to have a last word here?

02:28:46.000 Stop.

02:28:48.000 Yeah, believe me, Squad W does not want to come out here.

02:28:50.000 Yo, Asmongold, please go ahead. 0.95

02:28:51.000 The only thing I was trying to say, right, is that Hassan is saying that because the Kurds, these communist revolutionaries that you're talking about that are killing people, are killing ISIS, I think that Hassan is saying because they're killing ISIS, they're still acting in a good way. 0.56

02:29:08.000 Is that basically what you're saying, Hassan? 0.57

02:29:09.000 I said the YPG, in an effort to build an autonomous nation state for themselves, is behaving in a way that is morally justifiable more so than a person who's literally going up and walking into a mosque full of innocent people and murdering them. 0.99

02:29:25.000 And the fact that it's this difficult for these two people who were so confident in their perspective to come out with an example that's a little bit better than, oh, the people that are killing ISIS is the same as this guy who fucking went into and shot a mosque, it leads me to understand how stupid this point is. 0.95

02:29:41.000 Well, I feel like finding examples in each. 0.98

02:29:43.000 Side is like, you know, who's the biggest loser?

02:29:46.000 I mean, everybody ends up losing out.

02:29:48.000 But the bigger conversation, I think, is that what type of conversations and what type of discussions that are happening now, primarily online, are potentially leading to more of these people committing these violent acts.

02:30:01.000 And that can happen on both sides.

02:30:04.000 Yeah.

02:30:04.000 I think, well, I, so I think, hold on.

02:30:05.000 So this, I have to speak to this both sides thing.

02:30:05.000 Okay.

02:30:07.000 So I think the general problem is that right now we've seen a radicalization of white people, right?

02:30:11.000 Of these very right leaning, identitarian type people happen around the world that's leading them to commit more terrorist attacks, right?

02:30:16.000 More, um, at more, um, Not only terrorist attacks, but like ethnically motivated terrorist attacks. 0.54

02:30:22.000 The problem is that to both sides of that argument, or to do what Nick did when he said so eloquently earlier that everybody can commit acts of violence, that type of statement is ultimately vacuous and it gets us nowhere, right?

02:30:31.000 If you present a problem and say, hey, here's a specific problem of these people, they go, well, everyone has problems.

02:30:35.000 I mean, you can say it in a nice way, but it doesn't really address any of our issues, right? 0.86

02:30:38.000 So when you look at something like right wing extremism is being platformed in a lot of places online and people are being led to commit, you know, acts of extremism inspired by right wing groups and then say, well, the USSR also had extremist shit or like, The Kurds have communist parties in different countries.

02:30:53.000 I don't know if these are relevant to the conversation ever.

02:30:55.000 I wasn't trying to draw a similarity in terms of the output or anything like that.

02:30:59.000 I was just trying to say that both of them occur.

02:31:02.000 And the types of radicalization and the way that people are radicalized is both happening online and it's kind of happening in the same way.

02:31:11.000 Yeah, but it doesn't seem to be happening on the left.

02:31:14.000 From what I'm familiar with, I haven't seen people go out and actually stop.

02:31:17.000 How about Steve Skulls?

02:31:19.000 Regardless of that, regardless of it happening on the left or the right.

02:31:23.000 You still want to address it in basically the same way.

02:31:25.000 And what direction do you guys think that we should take in terms of preventing more of these situations from occurring?

02:31:32.000 Do you think that there's any sort of responsibility on these creators? 0.79

02:31:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I would argue that right wing rhetoric that centers around how other races are inferior or ought to be removed or ostracized from a country or that treats these people as foreign invaders or as replacing white babies. 0.57

02:31:47.000 I think this is like a pretty obvious style of rhetoric that leads people down a path towards wanting to violently remove these people, right?

02:31:53.000 When you've got somebody telling you that.

02:31:55.000 Foreign people in your land are destroying your culture and outbreeding you, and interracial relationships are immoral and wrong, then I think it's pretty obvious that it's going to lead some people towards enacting acts of violence against these groups of people.

02:32:08.000 Can I get a rebuttal here? 0.97

02:32:10.000 Yes, you may.

02:32:11.000 Nick or Sargon, please go ahead and have a rebuttal.

02:32:14.000 Real quick, though, Nick, as soon as we finish this, let's tie this up and make your points to why this is relevant to the original point, which is the manifesto.

02:32:23.000 Go ahead, Nick.

02:32:24.000 Yeah, sure.

02:32:27.000 He says it's vacuous to say that everybody has violence and it gets us nowhere.

02:32:32.000 Well, what the claim is is that right wing rhetoric, right wing political ideology is inherently violent.

02:32:39.000 He says that this talk about so called inferiority or exclusionary rhetoric, othering as they call it, is inherently violent.

02:32:47.000 And of course, this is obvious.

02:32:49.000 We can look at a number of other political movements.

02:32:51.000 We're talking about politics.

02:32:53.000 Politics is serious business.

02:32:55.000 Take a look at what's happening in Israel and Palestine. 0.91

02:32:57.000 This is a good and relevant example.

02:32:59.000 In Palestine, you have people that are legitimately protesting what's happening in Israel. 0.82

02:33:04.000 You also have terrorists. 0.74

02:33:05.000 That's no secret. 0.87

02:33:06.000 You look at Hamas, you look at Hezbollah.

02:33:08.000 I think there's a legitimate reason for them to be, but there's also militancy going on. 0.76

02:33:13.000 There's also terrorism that's happening.

02:33:15.000 They're using those kinds of tactics.

02:33:16.000 Now, would anybody say that to have BDS on your campus, for anybody to talk about Palestinian rights online, is inherently radicalizing the people that are in Palestine right now?

02:33:26.000 Would anybody make that argument?

02:33:27.000 Would anybody make the argument that the young Turks, by virtue of them talking about communism and socialism, is radicalizing the communist Kurds in Turkey to commit terrorism in Turkey?

02:33:38.000 Or, for example, and you keep saying there's no examples, you can't point to examples. 0.69

02:33:42.000 How about the 2017 congressional baseball shooting when somebody who was writing on Facebook about how Trump is a traitor, Trump has to die, whatever, goes and tries and kills politicians? 0.88

02:33:51.000 In Texas, this happened two years ago. 0.80

02:33:53.000 There was an atheist who shot up a church, and it was no secret the kind of political motivation.

02:33:58.000 So, of course, it's not to say that, oh, we can therefore do nothing. 0.94

02:34:06.000 We're totally immobilized, and this is a meaningless statement.

02:34:09.000 The point is, what you are trying to do is actually worsen the problem.

02:34:13.000 You're taking this as a pretext to silence your political opponents when violence happens all the time.

02:34:19.000 People have all kinds of ideologies and all kinds of different times and places and everything else.

02:34:23.000 And it's pretty obvious what's going on.

02:34:25.000 People like Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson, Pat Buchanan, people like that, they're not calling for people to shoot each other in the streets.

02:34:33.000 We're calling for some kind of reconciliation.

02:34:35.000 We've brought in 60 million immigrants in 1965.

02:34:39.000 That's a very big number.

02:34:41.000 Your family members included, right?

02:34:42.000 That's really funny.

02:34:43.000 Whether you think that's a good thing or whether you think that's.

02:34:45.000 Why is that funny?

02:34:46.000 Are you not?

02:34:47.000 Whether you think that's a good thing or whether you think that's a bad thing, that is a very important change that's taking place in the country.

02:34:55.000 And people that are opposed to that, it seems like there's no position that you can have that isn't economic.

02:35:01.000 Basically, the only opposition you can have to the country being transformed in one generation in that capacity is well, the quality of life is diminishing economically.

02:35:10.000 Not that people cherish their traditions, their customs, their texture of life that existed previously.

02:35:15.000 And nobody's calling, by the way, when they talk about that for.

02:35:19.000 Terrorism, mosque shootings, whatever.

02:35:21.000 But you're saying that anybody who even addresses that problem is in the same category.

02:35:25.000 It's disingenuous.

02:35:26.000 It's dishonest.

02:35:27.000 You're only exacerbating the problem.

02:35:29.000 Okay.

02:35:30.000 Thank you for the filibuster, Nick.

02:35:31.000 The difference, the main difference that we mentioned.

02:35:33.000 You're so passive aggressive.

02:35:34.000 You're such a.

02:35:35.000 The main difference that we mentioned time and time again that you just conveniently hop over is that the idea of saying people should get universal health care is not actually going to push someone to go out and shoot Stephen Scalise, okay?

02:35:48.000 However, Stephen Scalise's own personal perspective, for example, Like aligning himself with the KKK and saying that he is the David Duke without the baggage.

02:35:58.000 That sort of perspective has historically led to many violent things and it continues to this day.

02:36:04.000 That perspective is actually damaging and violent versus saying stuff like we should get free college education and free healthcare.

02:36:12.000 And if you can't distinguish between the two, I don't know what to tell you.

02:36:16.000 Why are we even having a conversation?

02:36:17.000 I think that what you're saying, Hassan, at its core, is actually very true.

02:36:21.000 And the conversation isn't necessarily.

02:36:24.000 About, like, should people be able to talk about political issues?

02:36:27.000 Is that where do you draw the line?

02:36:29.000 And do you draw the line?

02:36:31.000 Go ahead.

02:36:32.000 This was, that was unbelievable, son.

02:36:34.000 Right?

02:36:35.000 You're talking about seizing the means of production.

02:36:37.000 You're not talking about health care.

02:36:38.000 You're talking about seizing the means of production.

02:36:40.000 And that alone has caused more deaths than anything else.

02:36:43.000 But he's a reformist, not a revolutionary.

02:36:45.000 He's not saying to do it violently.

02:36:45.000 He's saying, I don't care what he's saying.

02:36:48.000 What I'm saying is, because currently they're being, currently your surplus value, the surplus value from your labor is being extracted.

02:36:55.000 I don't care about your surplus value.

02:36:59.000 I don't care about your justification.

02:37:02.000 No, it's not a justification.

02:37:03.000 I'm trying to describe the concept to you.

02:37:05.000 This is like saying democratic socialism.

02:37:08.000 I understand.

02:37:09.000 This is like saying social democracies in Norway, right?

02:37:11.000 This is like saying social democracies in Norway or even your country where the health, like that healthcare program that you enjoy is, uh, was brought about ultimately and is moving towards ultimately like a violent end.

02:37:24.000 It's insane.

02:37:25.000 I didn't say that.

02:37:26.000 I didn't say that because they were not socialist.

02:37:28.000 These are not socialist countries.

02:37:30.000 Countries that are not socialist.

02:37:31.000 But they're social democracies with higher levels of socialization and a robust, Wait, what?

02:37:31.000 They're not socialist.

02:37:37.000 And robust protections for private property.

02:37:41.000 You want the end of private property.

02:37:43.000 That's going to have to be done with violence.

02:37:45.000 There is no question of it. 0.75

02:37:47.000 Well, Hassan, your difference to the Nazis in this regard, you need to own it, Hassan. 0.75

02:37:52.000 That's your moral thing. 0.83

02:37:53.000 The difference is the extraction of private property is ultimately a violent one.

02:37:59.000 And I think that we can evolve beyond it.

02:38:01.000 However, and countries have, including Norway, where they have nationalized their extraction industries.

02:38:08.000 So obviously there are examples.

02:38:10.000 There are examples of nations that are closer to you than they are to fucking me where they've been able to do this through a democratic process by educating the populace and then voting on these sorts of things.

02:38:10.000 Right?

02:38:20.000 So obviously, you're incorrect.

02:38:22.000 Ending private property is not their goal.

02:38:25.000 It's the same as nationalization building public infrastructure and building public housing and getting to a point, which is my perspective, getting to a point where it is no longer necessary to have private property.

02:38:37.000 One can still maintain personal property.

02:38:39.000 I'm sure it's a distinction that you're unfamiliar with. 0.99

02:38:41.000 Is, is, that's gonna be different than saying, I want to make sure that everyone that doesn't look like me is, is, is yeeted off the fucking border wall. 0.99

02:38:50.000 That's your bigotry. 0.99

02:38:51.000 That's just your bigotry versus theirs.

02:38:53.000 Wait a second.

02:38:54.000 Wait.

02:38:54.000 Do you not know the distinction between private and personal property?

02:38:57.000 I'm well aware, thank you, Destiny, but that's not the question.

02:38:59.000 All right, just making sure.

02:39:01.000 Also, I like to point that out in all of this.

02:39:01.000 Okay.

02:39:04.000 I like that we just skipped over the idea.

02:39:06.000 Your bigotry is against the rich, Hassan, and you want to see them suffer.

02:39:10.000 His bigotry might well be against the rich.

02:39:12.000 Has any person ever become rich in isolation, or has, It's justified, but my bigotry is justified, Sargon.

02:39:20.000 I have a really good rationality.

02:39:22.000 It's not bigotry.

02:39:23.000 It's how a wealthy person has.

02:39:27.000 Give me one example of a billionaire who has become a billionaire without exploiting labor.

02:39:30.000 But I'm justifying it, but I'm justifying the violence and the bigotry.

02:39:34.000 You assume that the rich people have no moral standards at all.

02:39:38.000 I gave you an example of non violent nationalization that has happened in multiple places, including in the country that you live in.

02:39:46.000 I gave you examples of why this is not. 0.99

02:39:48.000 Bigotry, but if you're too stupid to think that Nazis and socialists are the same, then I don't know what to tell you. 0.99

02:39:56.000 The methods are the same. 1.00

02:39:57.000 You can't reach your goal without becoming a fascist.

02:40:00.000 That's why every socialist regime ends up looking a lot like a.

02:40:04.000 Dude, it wasn't like a socialist regime.

02:40:09.000 It's not like a socialist regime.

02:40:12.000 It's not a socialist regime.

02:40:18.000 It's not a socialist regime. 1.00

02:40:20.000 Fucking hard wit. 0.99

02:40:22.000 Explain to me how a wealthy person becomes wealthy without. 0.99

02:40:25.000 Explain to me how a wealthy person becomes wealthy.

02:40:26.000 It doesn't matter how they become this.

02:40:28.000 That's still the fundamental crux of your ideology.

02:40:31.000 The point is that they become wealthy off of people, not like yourself, because, you know, you are a YouTube creator, but they become wealthy off of exploiting the labor of people overseas or even people in your country.

02:40:44.000 Who did Mark Zuckerberg exploit?

02:40:48.000 Virtually every single employee that he's ever hired. 1.00

02:40:51.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

02:40:52.000 Profit is theft, Sargon. 1.00

02:40:53.000 That's the difference.

02:40:54.000 This is an economic difference.

02:40:56.000 I think that's really good. 0.51

02:40:58.000 What you fail to understand is looking at our current, looking at our remuneration processes right now and saying that we should have a different perspective on it is not the same as looking at different ethnic backgrounds and saying, well, their skull measurements are off, so they need to go.

02:41:14.000 It's a different bigotry, Hassan. 0.79

02:41:16.000 I agree. 0.69

02:41:17.000 No, it's not a different.

02:41:18.000 It's like arguing with a middle schooler who just read Marx.

02:41:21.000 No, you just can't seem to accept that you actually do have bigotries, prejudices.

02:41:26.000 Does anybody here think we all realize that some violent people have prejudices too, and theirs are ideological?

02:41:26.000 Wait, hold on.

02:41:31.000 You just take exception to this.

02:41:33.000 Wait, hold on.

02:41:34.000 This is the most big brain point I've ever heard in my life.

02:41:36.000 Okay, first of all, everyone in here knows that some violence can be justified, right?

02:41:39.000 We all agree with this, right?

02:41:40.000 I don't know, Destiny.

02:41:41.000 What are you talking about, big guy?

02:41:43.000 Well, you, Nick, you were literally laughing saying, here you are justifying violence.

02:41:47.000 Yeah, of course. 0.99

02:41:48.000 People justify violence all the fucking time. 1.00

02:41:50.000 Okay. 1.00

02:41:50.000 Yeah, sure. 1.00

02:41:51.000 But you're talking about the same kind of violence that we're talking about with New Zealand.

02:41:55.000 You're talking about political violence.

02:41:57.000 First, okay.

02:41:57.000 This is not asymmetrical.

02:41:58.000 No, no, no, no.

02:42:00.000 These are much different types of conversations, right?

02:42:02.000 If you want to have a conversation about whether or not.

02:42:04.000 I mean, they are.

02:42:04.000 The government should.

02:42:05.000 Nick, you're not this dumb. 1.00

02:42:06.000 As much as I hate to admit it, I know that you are. 1.00

02:42:08.000 I love these tactics.

02:42:09.000 I love these.

02:42:10.000 It's not a tactic, but I know that you understand there's a distinction here. 0.99

02:42:13.000 Trying to kill people of a certain racial group. 0.99

02:42:15.000 I know you're really not that dumb or blah, blah, blah. 1.00

02:42:18.000 I'm saying with the people. 0.94

02:42:19.000 Nick, the justifications that somebody would use, okay, to attack a group of people based on their race is going to be a lot different than the justifications somebody would use to enact violence on groups of people for economic reasons or for reasons you think are justifications to target groups.

02:42:34.000 Everybody has justifications.

02:42:35.000 We have justifications to target groups right now, of course.

02:42:37.000 Sargon.

02:42:38.000 Do you think we have justification? 0.99

02:42:39.000 Do you think we should kill terrorists? 1.00

02:42:40.000 Yes. 1.00

02:42:41.000 Wow, you're justifying violence.

02:42:42.000 I am, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:42:42.000 Like, yeah, no shit. 1.00

02:42:43.000 Yeah, of course. 1.00

02:42:44.000 Are you a bigot then?

02:42:45.000 Yes, against terrorists.

02:42:47.000 No, that's not what.

02:42:49.000 I honestly have an open bigotry against people who enact violence.

02:42:53.000 I don't know.

02:42:53.000 I think there's a big difference between being a bigot against somebody because of what they believe or what they're voluntarily doing versus who they are.

02:43:03.000 Okay, but a rich person is that thing.

02:43:06.000 Yeah, well, the deeper part of this.

02:43:09.000 No, well, no, no.

02:43:11.000 I don't want to try to do this.

02:43:12.000 Here we go.

02:43:13.000 Here we go again. 0.99

02:43:14.000 The philosophical argument, and I don't want to fucking defend this because I'm not a goddamn communist, okay? 0.97

02:43:17.000 But the philosophical argument would be that capitalists exist in a state of perpetual violence, okay? 0.97

02:43:21.000 And that the reason why people think that you need to upend that part of society is because they are perpetually enacting violence on a group of people.

02:43:26.000 So, of course, you have a right to return that with violence in kind.

02:43:29.000 Much the same way that if somebody was walking in here having me say that. 1.00

02:43:33.000 What if we could say then that Muslim immigrants are perpetually enacting violence against the native population? 1.00

02:43:39.000 That's an argument. 1.00

02:43:41.000 We can have that argument.

02:43:42.000 That's fine.

02:43:42.000 That's an argument that you can have.

02:43:44.000 If you want to have that argument, that's fine.

02:43:45.000 So, a communist would argue that a rich capitalist is perpetually enacting violence against society by extracting or plusing value from that society, sure. 0.95

02:43:52.000 And an alt rider would argue that every single immigrant that's a Muslim would also be enacting violence on that culture just by purpose of existing there, by virtue of existing there. 0.98

02:43:58.000 If you want to take on that argument, we can do it. 0.98

02:44:01.000 I've got a small inkling that a person arguing in favor of communism, even though I disagree with them, is going to have better arguments for their economic system and justifying violence against capitalists than somebody that says they want to kill people that are brown. 0.58

02:44:10.000 That's just against the idea. 0.91

02:44:11.000 Everybody should be censored then.

02:44:12.000 Everybody should be censored because there is an argument to be made, because every argument can.

02:44:17.000 Intrinsically lead to violence in some form that is illegitimate or against the state, then nobody should be able to voice any controversial opinion at all.

02:44:24.000 Except that's not true because I just said that there are forms of violence.

02:44:27.000 That's all that is acceptable.

02:44:28.000 Except there are forms of violence we agree are okay or ethical, right?

02:44:31.000 There are forms of violence that as societies we believe are ethically justified. 0.94

02:44:34.000 That's why we nuked Japan in World War II. 0.95

02:44:35.000 Against criminals, against criminals or terrorists or enemies of. 0.64

02:44:38.000 Not against criminals, against enemies of the state, against people that.

02:44:41.000 What you're talking about is entirely different.

02:44:43.000 You're saying that anybody who talks about, for example, demographic change is somebody who.

02:44:49.000 Their hateful rhetoric can lead to hateful actions.

02:44:52.000 Well, by the same principle, all things equal, somebody talking about how the capitalist class is perpetuating violence against people and stealing the product of their labor, somebody who takes it through to their logical conclusion will say, well, clearly the government isn't going to seize the means of production.

02:45:06.000 I'm going to go and do it myself.

02:45:08.000 And so that's what I'm saying.

02:45:10.000 If you're advocating for revolutionary reform of the United States, then sure, I don't necessarily disagree with that.

02:45:14.000 Well, we're not advocating revolutionary removal of people.

02:45:17.000 But you make videos. 0.97

02:45:18.000 If you're somebody like Lawrence, no, if you're making videos talking about how Western society is being destroyed, That the white man is going extinct, that we are being outbred and forced to take on this multicultural cut culture by Jews that are trying to outbreed and destroy white people. 1.00

02:45:31.000 How can you not think that that's going to lead to some people saying, well, fuck, maybe we should fucking kill these black people? 1.00

02:45:36.000 People talking about how our elected representatives are in bed with the KK and the Nazis and they're hurting black people and they're stealing the product of their labor. 1.00

02:45:43.000 How could you not believe that the only conclusion is to take up arms? 1.00

02:45:46.000 The difference is maybe that left wing people are just pussies who don't follow through to their logical conclusions. 0.99

02:45:51.000 You know, Hassan wants to talk about people stealing the product of their labor. 0.99

02:45:54.000 I'm this tough communist.

02:45:55.000 I love communism and everything.

02:45:57.000 But he doesn't actually want to do anything about it.

02:45:59.000 He doesn't actually even believe that.

02:46:00.000 That's cool.

02:46:01.000 Wait, no, if that's actually your argument, then you just made the argument for us.

02:46:05.000 If that's going to be your argument, then you've just made the argument for it. 0.99

02:46:10.000 Left wing people are pussy, so I don't really care about hateful rhetoric on the left. 1.00

02:46:13.000 If right wing people are going to go and actually fucking kill people, then that's the rhetoric I want to stop. 1.00

02:46:16.000 Thank you for agreeing with me, Nick. 0.98

02:46:17.000 Thank you for making your argument for us, Nicholas Pointe.

02:46:19.000 You're missing there. 0.99

02:46:21.000 You're thinking people are actually not pussy. 1.00

02:46:23.000 That's hilarious to me. 1.00

02:46:24.000 There are plenty of left wingers who have done lots of violence, especially in the past when left wing ideas were less dumb. 0.99

02:46:30.000 Oh, okay. 0.96

02:46:31.000 Yeah, you know what came about as a consequence of left wing violence?

02:46:35.000 I don't care.

02:46:36.000 You dumb motherfucker. 1.00

02:46:37.000 This is the difference. 1.00

02:46:39.000 When right wing violence gets to a fascist perspective, you have the Holocaust.

02:46:43.000 When left wing violence, especially like it did happen in America, you have a lot of it.

02:46:46.000 I know.

02:46:47.000 You build trade unions and you have the weekend.

02:46:49.000 Tell me which one is a better, more desirable outcome.

02:46:51.000 There are more genocides than the fascists ever accomplished this time.

02:46:54.000 Please explain to me which one is a more desirable outcome that you enjoy every single day.

02:46:59.000 I don't think genocide is more desirable.

02:47:00.000 Let's do something that doesn't result in a genocide. 0.51

02:47:02.000 Well, what if you genocide terrorists, though, Sargon, by using your definition?

02:47:06.000 Wow, I don't think terrorists are an ethnic group.

02:47:08.000 Well, I mean, you said you could be bigoted against terrorists, right?

02:47:11.000 So can't you genocide them as well?

02:47:13.000 They're not an ethnic group. 0.82

02:47:15.000 Okay.

02:47:16.000 So gotcha.

02:47:17.000 Well, not really, because genocide doesn't even have to be against an ethnic group.

02:47:17.000 But anyway.

02:47:20.000 It could be national, racist, fucking religious. 0.99

02:47:23.000 I don't understand. 1.00

02:47:25.000 Okay, real quick.

02:47:26.000 Let's bring this back to the original point of the shooting.

02:47:27.000 Thank you.

02:47:28.000 Because we actually know what radicalized them.

02:47:30.000 Being a part of any political group wasn't the thing that radicalized him.

02:47:34.000 I mean, we've got loads of people who are part of political groups that aren't going out and doing shooting.

02:47:39.000 That's not a second.

02:47:39.000 For this specific, going to France and actually seeing mass immigration to France, and combined with a terrorist attack of Eber Ackerlan, which I'd never even heard of, but this is a Swedish girl who is run down.

02:47:53.000 And it was this that he was sat in front of the graves of the World War II dead and looking at the crosses stretching off into the distance, and for some reason, He got it into his head that, okay, he has to go and kill a bunch of Muslims to make a statement to stop them. 0.64

02:48:08.000 And really, if you want to know the people who actually inspired him, he lists them.

02:48:13.000 I mean, he calls, what was it, Anders Breivik, or something like that.

02:48:18.000 That's his real influence, like these actual radicals who have done something.

02:48:22.000 In the same way that I'm sure the communist terrorists in India and whatever will cite some communist revolutionary like Lenin or something as their particular inspiration people who actually went and did these terrible things.

02:48:34.000 This is the real reason.

02:48:35.000 You're sure, but not really.

02:48:39.000 Again, the problem is you're sure, but not really.

02:48:43.000 When you look at Anders Breivik, which is a great example, what is he doing? 0.99

02:48:46.000 He's going out and killing a bunch of fucking Marxist teenagers because he thinks that killing Marxists is an honorable goal because there are people like yourself on the internet who try to make the fucking same argument that like Nazis and communists are inherently dangerous. 0.99

02:49:00.000 And if he sides with the Nazis in that one, we go back to World War II. 0.99

02:49:05.000 Again, Hassan, it's just history that proves this.

02:49:09.000 You've been Googling for the past 15 minutes. 0.99

02:49:11.000 You still haven't been able to bring up fucking stats. 0.99

02:49:13.000 I'm disappointed. 0.98

02:49:14.000 I've actually put it in our chat.

02:49:15.000 You can do this for a living, brother.

02:49:17.000 And you have a book in the chat, Hassan.

02:49:19.000 It's right there.

02:49:19.000 You can look.

02:49:20.000 It's right there.

02:49:21.000 You're just not looking.

02:49:23.000 And because, I don't know, this kind of pricks you.

02:49:26.000 Okay.

02:49:27.000 Again, I don't think you understand.

02:49:29.000 I don't think you understand the difference between a cell, a group of people who are fighting, which, by the way, I don't even admit to mind you.

02:49:35.000 You don't even know who's doing it.

02:49:39.000 Versus a group of people fighting against a government.

02:49:41.000 Versus a government literally butchering and genociding people.

02:49:44.000 There's a difference between the two, right?

02:49:47.000 Presumably, yeah.

02:49:48.000 Okay.

02:49:49.000 So if you understand that. 0.96

02:49:50.000 Then, why do you keep bringing up examples like Rojava, or why do you keep bringing up examples of people fucking going against a militant Chinese state, even, or an Indian state, or anything like that, that is literally fucking wiping them out? 0.92

02:50:03.000 They're not literally wiping them out. 0.98

02:50:04.000 We call what happened in Myanmar genocide, because it's the state systematically eradicating the Muslim population. 0.87

02:50:12.000 We should call what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan also genocide, but we don't.

02:50:16.000 Because that sort of violence, in your eyes and in the eyes of the Western world, is genocidal.

02:50:22.000 No, it's not.

02:50:23.000 No, I don't agree.

02:50:23.000 I'm not a supporter.

02:50:25.000 Or anything, but it's not genocidal.

02:50:28.000 Okay. 0.99

02:50:28.000 Yeah, what a ridiculous thing. 0.99

02:50:29.000 Do you understand the difference? 0.96

02:50:30.000 That the Iraq War was a systematic attempt to eliminate Iraq. 0.67

02:50:33.000 Yeah, how do you feel like you're. 1.00

02:50:35.000 I don't agree with it, but that's just for positive reasons.

02:50:38.000 Well, let's go ahead.

02:50:40.000 Let's get into this.

02:50:42.000 Actually, widespread killing of a group of people in one country, okay, is not justifiable, and yet you consider it to be justifiable.

02:50:49.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:50:51.000 What? 0.95

02:50:51.000 I don't consider the Iraq War justifiable. 0.95

02:50:53.000 Yeah, we're not in favor of that. 0.98

02:50:55.000 I don't understand.

02:50:56.000 Okay, but you don't see it as a subcategory of terrorism, which you happen to have a different perspective on.

02:51:00.000 That's my point.

02:51:01.000 Terrorism can only be done by non state actors.

02:51:03.000 Oh, my God.

02:51:04.000 All right.

02:51:05.000 Let's just move past the point.

02:51:05.000 Never mind.

02:51:06.000 This doesn't even know the definition.

02:51:08.000 By definition, terrorism cannot be by the state.

02:51:11.000 Okay, my point.

02:51:12.000 You guys are not understanding my point.

02:51:14.000 No, you're not understanding the whole conversation, man.

02:51:17.000 Okay.

02:51:18.000 There are different forms of violence, okay?

02:51:20.000 Structural violence, such as people dying in poverty or people dying because they don't have access to shelter or food.

02:51:26.000 Then there's systemic violence perpetrated on marginalized communities, or there's the kinds of violence that the state brings, whether it be foreign intervention that's military based or domestically, the militarized police force killing minorities and whatnot in an unjustifiable manner.

02:51:43.000 But the difference is you look at that sort of, or poor people, it doesn't matter.

02:51:49.000 You look at that form of violence and you have no issue with it because you find that to be the norm because you were still a beneficiary of the status quo. 1.00

02:51:57.000 So the people that are fighting against that, the people that are fighting against that, In some instances, they are actually awful people and they're fucking maniacal and genocidal and whatnot, and fuck those people. 0.98

02:52:08.000 But then there are reasonable, like Destiny was mentioning, there are reasonable revolutionaries who are still enacting some sort of goal that you now even take for granted, such as having a weekend or a number of different things that leftist revolutionaries have brought up. 0.98

02:52:25.000 I don't have weekends, Sasan.

02:52:26.000 But anyway.

02:52:28.000 You know what I mean?

02:52:28.000 Oh my God.

02:52:29.000 The five day work week, Sargon. 0.93

02:52:31.000 Yeah, sure.

02:52:32.000 Look, I'm not saying.

02:52:33.000 Ending child labour.

02:52:35.000 Hassan, I'm not saying that the left has done nothing good.

02:52:38.000 I'm not saying that.

02:52:40.000 I'm saying that communism is inherently violent and genocidal against a certain demographic of people in society in the same way that Nazism is.

02:52:48.000 There's a reason that these look like kissing cousins.

02:52:51.000 There's a reason that in Germany in the 30s, so many communists became Nazi.

02:52:56.000 It's very, there's a reason why every fascist leader was a socialist.

02:53:00.000 Wait, wait, hold on, wait, wait.

02:53:01.000 Why do you think socialists became Nazi in Germany?

02:53:05.000 I imagine there are lots of reasons.

02:53:07.000 Well, the main reason was because that's how that political party positioned itself, right?

02:53:10.000 Like the reason why they rebranded to National Socialist was to win support from those groups.

02:53:15.000 Like the word privatization was literally invented to describe what Nazi Germany did to industries.

02:53:21.000 Yeah, but this is also a really sort of shallow under.

02:53:24.000 No, this is actually what happened.

02:53:28.000 I'll explain to you why you have a shallow understanding.

02:53:30.000 Pause for a second, Destiny. 0.85

02:53:32.000 The point that the Nazis had was to, in Hitler's words, and I quote, we socialize people because property, that's for the losers. 0.65

02:53:41.000 That's like. 0.92

02:53:42.000 Nazism is like socialism on steroids.

02:53:45.000 You realize that the first concentration camps that Nazis started were actually for socialists.

02:53:49.000 Like, don't do this.

02:53:51.000 Probably.

02:53:52.000 Why wouldn't they be?

02:53:53.000 Why wouldn't they be?

02:53:54.000 I'm not saying that they were the.

02:53:59.000 Nazism had nothing to do with socialism or communism.

02:54:02.000 It's not socialism or communism on steroids. 0.56

02:54:06.000 It's literally in the opposite of it.

02:54:09.000 Real quick, real quick.

02:54:10.000 I need to pause you guys.

02:54:11.000 For some reason, I don't know why.

02:54:13.000 It's only.

02:54:15.000 It's only when Sargon speaks, Discord just like it loses connection and it mutes.

02:54:19.000 Like, so let's fix this.

02:54:20.000 Let's try leaving and rejoining.

02:54:22.000 Let me hide this camera.

02:54:22.000 Give me one second.

02:54:24.000 It's only.

02:54:25.000 No, I think if Sargon just moves a little bit closer to the mic, I'll probably fix it.

02:54:30.000 No, no, no.

02:54:31.000 It's not a mic issue.

02:54:32.000 Trust me.

02:54:32.000 I hear it.

02:54:33.000 There's a disconnection in Discord.

02:54:35.000 Trust me.

02:54:35.000 It's not a mic issue.

02:54:36.000 There's an actual freeze of the stream.

02:54:38.000 Okay.

02:54:39.000 So I'm going to recall.

02:54:41.000 And Sargon, if you just leave the group, I'm going to re add you.

02:54:44.000 Yeah.

02:54:44.000 Okay.

02:54:45.000 Yeah.

02:54:45.000 Okay.

02:55:02.000 The shit going between Palestine and Israel is caused by radicalized online people, and not the fact that Israel's killed like nine. 1.00

02:55:07.000 Give me one second here, guys. 1.00

02:55:08.000 resetting discord hey Okay, we're back.

02:55:35.000 Fab.

02:55:36.000 We switched the sides.

02:55:37.000 It's a reverse, but okay, here we go.

02:55:39.000 We're ready.

02:55:40.000 I reset the server.

02:55:41.000 I did everything I could.

02:55:42.000 There was some weird disconnection, and I moved the server to the east just to see.

02:55:47.000 All right, here we go.

02:55:48.000 Let's continue.

02:55:49.000 Sorry about that, guys.

02:55:51.000 Terabuck, if you're watching, please change the nameplates around.

02:55:52.000 All right, continue.

02:55:56.000 I'm so sorry.

02:55:56.000 So rather than getting into a long discussion about Nazism and communism.

02:56:00.000 I mean, yeah, because you would lose, because history.

02:56:03.000 Oh my god.

02:56:04.000 Why do you have to be so juvenile?

02:56:06.000 Can we not just speak?

02:56:08.000 You're talking to 27,000 people and you don't even have the basic understanding of what happened in Nazi history.

02:56:15.000 Are you trying to refocus the conversation, Tyrant? 0.56

02:56:19.000 There are so many.

02:56:21.000 Have you read Mein Kampf?

02:56:23.000 No, I have not.

02:56:24.000 But you have.

02:56:25.000 How do you know the Nazi story?

02:56:27.000 Wait, what?

02:56:29.000 Because I haven't read Mein Kampf, you think you have a better understanding?

02:56:29.000 Wait, what?

02:56:33.000 Wait, wait, wait.

02:56:34.000 Have you read the Quran?

02:56:35.000 Wait, have you read the Quran?

02:56:36.000 Yes, I have read the Quran.

02:56:38.000 From cover to cover?

02:56:39.000 Oh, that's impressive.

02:56:40.000 Yes, I have.

02:56:41.000 Which of the hadiths have you studied?

02:56:43.000 I'm curious.

02:56:45.000 Because I know you criticize Muslims a lot as well.

02:56:49.000 Because you don't know what the Nazis thought.

02:56:51.000 Like, I'm not kidding.

02:56:52.000 You guys don't seem to understand these sort of things.

02:56:56.000 Do you think that just because I haven't read Mein Kampf, I haven't done enough?

02:56:58.000 Like, I don't have the understanding of what happened in Nazi history?

02:57:04.000 Like in Nazi Germany, why my Republic?

02:57:06.000 Do you know what the night of the.

02:57:07.000 Why the Nazis?

02:57:07.000 Explain to me what they did.

02:57:08.000 Without Googling right now, can you please walk me through the steps of what happened when the socialists were purged? 1.00

02:57:15.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

02:57:15.000 What. 1.00

02:57:16.000 I gave it away already. 1.00

02:57:17.000 Damn it. 1.00

02:57:18.000 I fucking gave it away. 1.00

02:57:20.000 Disaster for you, man. 1.00

02:57:22.000 Have you read Das Kapital as well?

02:57:23.000 Are you actually the most loved in the night?

02:57:25.000 Guys, one at a time.

02:57:27.000 Please let Sargon speak and then Destiny or Asanki.

02:57:29.000 I'm going to read the night of the long knives.

02:57:31.000 Please.

02:57:31.000 No, why would I?

02:57:33.000 Why would I? 0.93

02:57:34.000 I'm talking about the philosophy behind Nazism. 0.53

02:57:37.000 I am, so I just want you to inform me because maybe I'm missing something important. 0.88

02:57:40.000 You are definitely missing something important, right? 0.91

02:57:42.000 I'm talking about the philosophy behind Nazism. 0.90

02:57:44.000 What happened then? 0.98

02:57:45.000 No, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, Hassan. 0.93

02:57:48.000 I don't think you know. 1.00

02:57:50.000 I'd have to Wikipedia it.

02:57:50.000 You're right.

02:57:51.000 See exactly. 1.00

02:57:52.000 Well, you just said you fucking. 1.00

02:57:53.000 No, no, Hassan. 1.00

02:57:53.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

02:57:54.000 You're not following what I'm saying, Hassan, right? 1.00

02:57:58.000 I would have to look up the series of events that happened because that's an event, right?

02:58:02.000 But I'm talking about the why.

02:58:04.000 Why did that happen?

02:58:06.000 I'm glad you read Mike off, though, dog.

02:58:09.000 Please let Sargon finish.

02:58:10.000 I read the Communist Manifesto.

02:58:11.000 I read about two thirds of.

02:58:12.000 Nick, what are you doing? 0.98

02:58:13.000 I think you know more than fucking Sargon does, probably for the worst reasons, but. 0.98

02:58:17.000 Sargon, please go ahead and finish. 0.98

02:58:19.000 Well, I don't know what I'm trying to say here because Hassan seems to be muddying the waters. 1.00

02:58:24.000 Well, it's just. 0.94

02:58:25.000 If we try and stay on like one strain of the debate, it keeps doing.

02:58:28.000 I know more about Nazi Germany than you do.

02:58:31.000 I have read my cough, but do you even know?

02:58:32.000 It's like, can we just focus on now it's about communism versus Nazism?

02:58:38.000 I want to return back to the point.

02:58:40.000 That is a really good question.

02:58:42.000 So, the point, right?

02:58:42.000 Okay, okay, okay.

02:58:43.000 I think that there's a rise in right wing terrorism because the radical right is being suppressed.

02:58:49.000 And I think it's being suppressed by the radical left.

02:58:51.000 And I think they know they're doing this.

02:58:52.000 I mean, this is something that's obvious.

02:58:54.000 This is something that they're constantly harping on about, blah, blah, blah.

02:58:57.000 And I think that Nick's point was right.

02:58:59.000 I think that when people aren't, they believe they don't have any way of democratically redressing their concerns, like addressing them and actually having them.

02:59:10.000 Like, at least acknowledged, then and when they get persecuted for them, yeah, I think that radicalizes them.

02:59:15.000 And so, I agree, I think we are going to see a big spike in right wing terrorism.

02:59:19.000 And I think the only way to stop that is either, I mean, God knows what kind of tyrannical methods the communists would indulge in, or we can take the liberal route and just ask them what their problem is.

02:59:31.000 I'm curious.

02:59:32.000 What would be a sample conversation?

02:59:34.000 So, let's say the New Zealand shooter is coming up to you and he's got his gun in the trunk or his multiple guns in the trunk and he's ready to go.

02:59:40.000 Well, I think at that point it's too late.

02:59:42.000 Okay, so.

02:59:44.000 I think he's done at that point, you know.

02:59:46.000 Do you think you promote rhetoric that's inclusive towards people of other cultures or other colors inside your country, or do you think you're more exclusionary?

02:59:56.000 That seems like a weird question to ask.

02:59:59.000 Do we promote rhetoric that is inclusive of other cultures in my country? 1.00

03:00:02.000 Yeah, like, so for instance, like, would you say something like, I'm uncomfortable with so many people from different cultures immigrating here, I don't think they belong in my country? 1.00

03:00:08.000 Would you be the kind of person to say that, or? 1.00

03:00:11.000 No, I wouldn't be the kind of person to say that.

03:00:13.000 Okay.

03:00:14.000 But someone who would say that would definitely be punished in many various different ways.

03:00:19.000 Well, but basically, what I'm trying to get at is what is your prescription?

03:00:22.000 So, a person on the left oftentimes would say, we shouldn't, and I'm using left in like the progressive sense here, a person on the left would say, we shouldn't platform radicalizing speech that could cause other people to go down this tunnel of becoming hateful of other cultures that will lead some of them into killing people.

03:00:36.000 So, I'm curious, what is her prescription to stop that from happening?

03:00:38.000 I think that's true.

03:00:39.000 Wait, you think what part of that is false?

03:00:41.000 I'll let you know if you just stop interrupting me, Destiny.

03:00:44.000 I think that Nick's right.

03:00:46.000 I think these people existing and having a voice isn't what inherently radicalizes people.

03:00:50.000 I think it's when they feel they can't do anything and when they're getting suppressed and, frankly, oppressed is when they start radicalizing.

03:00:58.000 I actually think that having Nick on this is a really good start.

03:01:01.000 This kind of let's just hear what they have to say.

03:01:04.000 And we don't have to agree with them, right?

03:01:06.000 But what we shouldn't do is pathologize them and, like, anathematize them.

03:01:10.000 I think that that's what really makes people radical.

03:01:13.000 And I'm not saying this as someone who agrees with their perspective.

03:01:16.000 I don't.

03:01:17.000 But there might be some things that they're saying that are true.

03:01:20.000 And maybe we should actually listen and, like, pay attention to the true thing and adopt it as part of ourselves, as part of what we believe, because it's a true thing.

03:01:29.000 Okay, can you tell me what to deny that?

03:01:31.000 Okay, well, the birth rates are true, right?

03:01:33.000 Can you deny that?

03:01:34.000 You deal with Nazis a lot.

03:01:35.000 You talk to them.

03:01:36.000 Like, I'm not saying you're a communist.

03:01:38.000 Well, wait, how do birth rates get us?

03:01:40.000 How do birth rates get us? 0.64

03:01:41.000 How do birth rates get us to people need to be excluded from our country?

03:01:44.000 Like when people talk about birth rates.

03:01:45.000 No, no, listen, I'm not saying people need to be excluded from anything, right?

03:01:49.000 No, no, you might not be.

03:01:51.000 That's their concern.

03:01:52.000 It was the first three lines of his manifesto.

03:01:52.000 Right?

03:01:55.000 It's the birth rates, it's the birth rates, it's the birth rates.

03:01:57.000 Right?

03:01:58.000 Okay.

03:01:58.000 I think there might be a group of people who are concerned about the birth rates.

03:02:01.000 Is there a legitimate conversation to be had there?

03:02:03.000 And yeah, there actually is.

03:02:04.000 Yeah, there genuinely is like the Danish government, a well known Nazi government, have actually tried to take steps to rectify this.

03:02:11.000 There is something there.

03:02:13.000 So, I think that the argument that Sargon is basically trying to make is that the people on the right that are extreme are marginalized so much that they commit acts of violence because they're marginalized.

03:02:27.000 And if they were allowed to promote, not necessarily promote, but at least express themselves, they would be less likely to commit these acts of violence because they had a place to express themselves.

03:02:39.000 Is that basically what you're saying?

03:02:41.000 I agree.

03:02:41.000 That is exactly what I think it is.

03:02:43.000 Yeah, but that's true.

03:02:44.000 And it's actually true. 0.51

03:02:45.000 There was a guy called Christopher or Christian Piccolini or something, and his whole shtick is that he's the former neo Nazi.

03:02:52.000 He was a big neo Nazi in Chicago, and now he's this left wing activist.

03:02:55.000 And he's gone after me, he's gone after a lot of people like that.

03:03:00.000 And what he says, and it's interesting because his prescription is always just become left wing.

03:03:05.000 I'm going to give you an exit.

03:03:05.000 You just got to become left wing.

03:03:07.000 You just got to bend the knee, and the Nazis can convert. 0.90

03:03:10.000 Right.

03:03:11.000 But what's interesting is he says, how does a person get radicalized?

03:03:14.000 He asked that question.

03:03:15.000 He says, Well, people get isolated.

03:03:18.000 That's the main thing driving it people get isolated, people are disillusioned, they lack direction, and that's when people prey upon them and use them and whatever else.

03:03:27.000 And so people are saying, well, the solution to people getting radicalized by hearing so called extremist rhetoric is to further isolate them, is to make it so that they have no sanctuary anywhere.

03:03:37.000 It's to make it so that they're the most persecuted people, can't talk, their family can't associate with them, friends can't associate with them, they can't be employed, they can't have a Twitter account, they can't be on Facebook.

03:03:46.000 What do you think happens to a person like that?

03:03:48.000 Now, on my show, for example, we talk about let's affect change within the system, let's find strategies where if you have a problem with immigration, you could get involved in the party, you could vote your way out of this, whatever.

03:04:00.000 But there's a path forward for you if you have these particular inclinations or these particular views.

03:04:07.000 But what happens is, and this is something we've been talking about all the time, and it's not even to justify it, understand, it's not even to rationalize it.

03:04:13.000 It's to say that in any society, you have people who are problematic.

03:04:17.000 You have people who, whatever reason, whether it's poor childhood or they're mentally ill or whatever, you have people who they get possessed by an ideology, they could be possessed by some sort of an obsession, and they become problematic.

03:04:31.000 Instead of taking these people and forcing them out on the side into the darkness where we can't see them, where they may get bad ideas, where they perhaps buy firearms or whatever, instead, if there was somebody who was out there saying, yes, fertility rates are declining, if you look at this group of people around the world, they're on the decline, and society is changing radically in a very short amount of time, and there's a concern to be had there.

03:04:56.000 There's a legitimate concern about that.

03:04:58.000 What is a compromise we can come to where everybody can live together?

03:04:58.000 What is a settlement?

03:05:01.000 What's a compromise where we can sort of Negotiate this change in the coming couple of decades.

03:05:08.000 I think if that were present, you wouldn't see so much radicalism.

03:05:12.000 But what happens is, and I'll tell you, a lot of people will go off the deep end, even farther than anybody that I know.

03:05:18.000 They'll say that, well, I was shut down, and that sort of vindicated everything I thought.

03:05:23.000 I started saying these things I was shut down, I was censored, something happened to me, whatever.

03:05:28.000 And that's even with my views.

03:05:30.000 I was about to be hired by Ben Shapiro, unironically, at the Daily Wire before I started asking, well, what's the deal with foreign aid to Israel?

03:05:38.000 What's the deal with some of these things that are going on, which are obviously objectionable?

03:05:42.000 And instead of people debating me, instead of people saying, well, here's the reason and here's maybe what we're doing about it, here's a middle ground, they said, if you talk about that again, you'll never work again.

03:05:51.000 If you keep talking about that, we're going to disassociate.

03:05:54.000 We're going to call your boss every day. 0.93

03:05:55.000 And they did for weeks and say you're a racist and try and get you fired. 0.69

03:05:58.000 And I said, oh, okay.

03:06:00.000 So clearly there's something to what I'm saying here.

03:06:02.000 There's something to some of these questions.

03:06:04.000 Well, I don't know about that.

03:06:05.000 I do feel like it's kind of like a false assumption to assume that whenever people tell you to stop talking, About something, or they stop you from talking about something, you automatically assume that that's because what you're actually saying is true.

03:06:18.000 I don't know if that's always accurate, but basically, what Nick and Sargon are saying is that these extremist opinions are bred in isolation.

03:06:26.000 So, Destiny and Hassan, the question I have for you guys is do you feel like it would be helpful to the society to bring these extreme opinions of the right into the fold and actually have conversations about them rather than ostracizing these people from the community entirely?

03:06:41.000 In a very careful manner where you can catch bad faith actors, so like Fuentes is somebody that I consider bad. 0.83

03:06:45.000 Faith actor.

03:06:46.000 If you have very careful areas where you can catch people out on them lying, yeah, I would say that there's value in it.

03:06:51.000 But what I want to go back and focus on is more this idea that people get isolated, right? 1.00

03:06:54.000 When you talk about isolationism or you talk about, or not isolation, when you talk about people getting isolated from society, you're not saying like you're isolated because you're not allowed to go out and talk about the birth rates and how horrible Jews are. 0.95

03:07:04.000 That's not the type of isolationism that's happening, right? 0.97

03:07:06.000 When people are isolated, we mean more things like people don't have very many friends in society or people are spending too much time on social media, people aren't connecting with their family as much, people aren't, you know, doing whatever things in society we do that kind of like.

03:07:16.000 Keep us connected. 0.97

03:07:17.000 It's possible to bring somebody into society and have them feel like their life has meaning and purpose and they have shit to do that doesn't involve platforming them saying, you know, race realism truths about fucking what did Charles Murray say in the bell curve or some shit. 0.99

03:07:29.000 I think it's a really dangerous and bad dichotomy to imply that we either have to hate and destroy and get rid of everyone in society that disagrees with us or we have to bring literal white nationalist Nazis like Richard Spencer to the forefront and have real conversations about whether or not Jews control society. 0.98

03:07:45.000 I don't think it has to be one or the other here. 0.71

03:07:47.000 Yeah, but you just talk about bad things.

03:07:48.000 There's a false dichotomy there.

03:07:50.000 I honestly feel like.

03:07:52.000 Hang on, hang on.

03:07:53.000 So the thing is, you're taking the most extreme.

03:07:56.000 What Nick said was actually really reasonable, right?

03:07:59.000 I think that if Nick walked up to a regular person on the street, not involved with politics, and said what he had said previous to You Destiny, I think they'd say, well, yeah, of course that's a concern, which is presumably why the Danish government were doing something about it.

03:08:10.000 No, no, hang on.

03:08:11.000 Yeah, that's just an easy example, right?

03:08:13.000 Because it's a liberal society where this is a problem that they've noticed and they took steps to address it, right? 0.99

03:08:19.000 But you set up as right, we need to exterminate X people or whatever.

03:08:22.000 That's not.

03:08:23.000 What we would want to talk about.

03:08:26.000 Anyone who wants to have a dialogue, obviously, we would take good faith, sensible, level headed actors who would say a lot like what Nick has just said there.

03:08:35.000 This is the radical sort of like, if you want to characterize them as the sort of extreme right, okay, let's characterize them as extreme right.

03:08:42.000 That's what their concern is.

03:08:43.000 And really, I think it comes down to the sort of like the three driving motivations of Enlightenment philosophy liberalism is for liberty, socialism is for equality, and fascism is for security.

03:08:54.000 Right, they're the three.

03:08:55.000 If you're going to give them charitable motivations that drew people to them, that's what you would accurately, I think, all three groups would agree with those assessments.

03:09:05.000 Right, the security one is being completely shut out of the dialogue, and it's not fair to those people who happen to be afraid.

03:09:15.000 Right, I mean, there was a study that said like 30% of people in society they reckon are just primed to go fascist, they're not, they're perfectly normal, happy, liberal people until a certain set of conditions are met, and then boom.

03:09:26.000 You know, fascists.

03:09:28.000 And I don't want to see 30% of the population radicalized into fascism.

03:09:32.000 But I think if we keep going further and further to the left, then that's what's going to happen.

03:09:35.000 And I'm really scared of that, man.

03:09:37.000 I am really scared of that.

03:09:39.000 And so I think that the way to stop that is to moderate and to bring these people to the center.

03:09:45.000 Well, I don't know about bringing this to the center.

03:09:47.000 Do you think that someone is going to be able to push you into thinking?

03:09:50.000 Because you admitted, Sargon, that you yourself are not a racist person, right?

03:09:53.000 You're a liberal.

03:09:54.000 Do you think that at any point, is the left going to get? 0.98

03:09:57.000 Too crazy, so much so that you're going to start thinking, well, maybe blacks and whites can't live together. 0.87

03:10:04.000 No, but I'm not. 0.99

03:10:05.000 Then don't you think that it's kind of impossible?

03:10:07.000 I'm just, look, I don't know why I'm asking you this question is because, no, this notion that people, like, racism is social conditioning, okay?

03:10:16.000 I know that Nick will probably try to argue from a more naturalistic perspective and claim that, you know, this is a normal thing, but it's not.

03:10:26.000 It's social conditioning.

03:10:28.000 And I think you understand that as a liberal. 0.99

03:10:30.000 And the point I'm trying to make is that, look, Destiny debates fucking right wingers all the time. 0.97

03:10:36.000 I'm fully on board with talking to even Nazis, as long as the other side is well equipped to deal with the misinformation, as long as the other side is well equipped with an understanding of not only history, but the kind of historical revisionism that Nazis or fascists engage in. 0.98

03:10:53.000 Or communists. 0.94

03:10:53.000 Okay? 0.94

03:10:54.000 What?

03:10:55.000 Yeah, no, you're right.

03:10:57.000 Well, then you guys do kind of.

03:10:59.000 There are definitely certain factions.

03:11:01.000 That will probably engage in historical revisionism as well.

03:11:04.000 But that doesn't, I mean, I'm not one of those people.

03:11:06.000 Well, you're practicing.

03:11:07.000 I don't know why you think this is a gotcha moment.

03:11:09.000 You're practicing what Sargon is saying, then, is to bring in the whole of the stream.

03:11:13.000 But the difference is, platforms don't know how to deal with this because the profit motive feeds into it.

03:11:20.000 Because the profit motive feeds into the fact that conspiracy theory channels are being heightened because more people are watching it.

03:11:29.000 And this misinformation is the only access that most average citizens have.

03:11:34.000 And then on top of that, Nick is not correct when he says isolation, but alienation occurs where you feel alienated from your labor, where you feel alienated from your own.

03:11:43.000 This is just momentous metric.

03:11:45.000 This is.

03:11:46.000 This is pure Marxism.

03:11:47.000 It's so weird that you're trying to shut down my speech when I'm trying to have a normal conversation where I admitted that I somewhat agree with your perspective by trying to claim that it's Marxist rhetoric.

03:11:57.000 How is it that any different than people think it's anything Marxist rhetoric? 0.96

03:12:01.000 That's not an accurate way of fucking dealing with what I'm trying to say. 0.69

03:12:04.000 Try to please, for a brief moment, give that same level of charity that I've just offered to you and take in what I'm trying to say. 0.94

03:12:12.000 Okay?

03:12:14.000 Well, Hassan, the point I was trying to make before I got derailed is that.

03:12:17.000 These people feel alienation.

03:12:19.000 It's not isolation, okay? 1.00

03:12:20.000 If they felt isolation, this wouldn't happen in fucking Norway, like a majority white country. 0.99

03:12:27.000 Or it wouldn't happen in places like New Zealand. 0.99

03:12:27.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

03:12:30.000 These people don't feel isolated and in a minority, and that's why they're going and killing people.

03:12:35.000 They feel alienated.

03:12:36.000 They feel like they have no purpose.

03:12:39.000 And then they go back to these weird mythological underpinnings of Nordic mythology and haplogroups and the replacement that is occurring somehow.

03:12:50.000 And never really look at it as these are our fellow men and women who are coming from different parts of the world who are just going to readjust into our way of life and ultimately make it better.

03:13:02.000 Okay, can I just give people like a.

03:13:04.000 Okay, go ahead.

03:13:05.000 Thank you.

03:13:06.000 Right.

03:13:08.000 The problem that I have with your theory and the reason that.

03:13:11.000 And I'm sorry, I'm just going to hand wave as Marxist, but I think that this is your prism, your ideological lens that you're viewing it through.

03:13:21.000 Because, I mean, you can't really account for someone like Elliot Roger with that sort of rationale because he was a rich kid.

03:13:28.000 He didn't do any labor.

03:13:29.000 He didn't feel isolated from his labor, alienated from his labor.

03:13:32.000 I didn't just say alienation from labor, I said alienation from their fellow men and women.

03:13:36.000 Okay, sure, right?

03:13:38.000 But that wasn't because of economic factors, right?

03:13:43.000 For him, that was social factors.

03:13:45.000 I can't actually remember the Christchurch shooter guy's name.

03:13:48.000 But for him, again, that wasn't economic.

03:13:51.000 He clearly had money, he traveled a lot.

03:13:54.000 You can be alienated from your labor and make a lot of money.

03:13:56.000 I don't think you understand that.

03:13:57.000 Yeah, but that wasn't his concern.

03:14:00.000 That wasn't his concern.

03:14:01.000 These people aren't doing violence.

03:14:03.000 Alienation doesn't mean you're doing violence because you aren't making enough money.

03:14:07.000 I know.

03:14:08.000 Okay.

03:14:09.000 I know.

03:14:10.000 It's because you don't feel invested in the work that you do.

03:14:12.000 I'm kind of curious on this point.

03:14:14.000 Sorry, guys.

03:14:14.000 Hang on, hang on, hang on.

03:14:16.000 So they have other reasons and they tell us these other reasons.

03:14:21.000 And for some people, these reasons are racial.

03:14:24.000 That's just the way they feel.

03:14:26.000 For Elliot Rogers, it was sexual.

03:14:29.000 Each one of these has their own particular motivations.

03:14:33.000 Some people, sure, and it's not to say that it's never that people feel alienated from their labor and their work, that they're just doing the same monotonous, droning work all day, every day, and they feel frustrated and bored or whatever.

03:14:46.000 I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but we have plenty of cases where that's not the case.

03:14:51.000 So I think that in some cases, sure, it will be appropriate to apply a Marxist analysis in that regard.

03:14:56.000 But in others, it's not a panacea.

03:14:58.000 It doesn't answer all the questions.

03:15:00.000 Do you speak up as much when people try to alienate Muslims in society?

03:15:03.000 Because this is how ISIS does a lot of its targeting for recruitment as well.

03:15:08.000 Yeah, it's a real problem.

03:15:09.000 So, do you agree that it's maybe bad that we demonize Islamic culture or demonize Muslims so much?

03:15:15.000 I don't think we should demonize anyone.

03:15:17.000 So, you don't think that maybe you've engaged in a little bit of that alienation?

03:15:21.000 You're not hypercritical of Muslims or hypercritical of Islam?

03:15:25.000 Wait, what did you say?

03:15:26.000 Why?

03:15:26.000 Alienation.

03:15:28.000 Okay.

03:15:28.000 Nick, what were you going to say?

03:15:30.000 I can see you're trying to say something. 1.00

03:15:32.000 Well, the Muslim thing is just kind of. 1.00

03:15:34.000 You talk about bad faith actors. 1.00

03:15:36.000 It's funny because I think we were trying to make a good point, trying to find some common ground. 0.93

03:15:39.000 It's like, what about this other thing?

03:15:41.000 I mean, you're not totally consistent on that.

03:15:42.000 So.

03:15:43.000 Wait, what am I not inconsistent?

03:15:45.000 Wait, no, no.

03:15:45.000 Out of stock.

03:15:46.000 Tell me what I'm inconsistent on.

03:15:47.000 Can you please tell me what I'm inconsistent on?

03:15:50.000 Nick, I swear you've talked to me, and again, twice as much in this debate as I have you.

03:15:53.000 Tell me where I'm inconsistent.

03:15:55.000 The point that I'm trying to make here is you talk about both you and both Destiny and Hassan talk about, you know, well, maybe we could platform people who are reasonable.

03:16:06.000 Or they say, well, what is the point where we could platform somebody who holds views that are even adjacent to us?

03:16:11.000 Because you say, please.

03:16:14.000 So you guys say, well, You know, there's no point, Destiny says, there's no point at which you could platform this appropriately, or it'd be very difficult to find a way that you could do this responsibly.

03:16:25.000 Hassan, I guess your position is, you know, I'll debate these people, but whatever.

03:16:29.000 A really good example, which I think sort of sheds some light on this, is anybody familiar with the scientist James Watson?

03:16:36.000 James Watson, who discovered DNA.

03:16:38.000 You may know this guy.

03:16:41.000 Are you going to try to say that the guy that discovered DNA is like an authority on DNA?

03:16:44.000 Oh, this guy.

03:16:45.000 Oh, my God.

03:16:45.000 Oh, my gosh.

03:16:46.000 This is literal Nazi propaganda. 1.00

03:16:49.000 Holy shit. 1.00

03:16:50.000 Refuse afterwards, then, man. 0.99

03:16:51.000 Refuse afterwards.

03:16:52.000 Right?

03:16:52.000 Honestly.

03:16:53.000 So, this is no self control monologue on, like, Jesus Christ.

03:16:56.000 No self control.

03:16:57.000 And you want to know why?

03:16:57.000 Because you know I'm about to completely blow up your whole life.

03:17:00.000 Because you're about to cite a guy that has no background in intelligence or IQ research whatsoever.

03:17:05.000 I think we all say he was the authority of the fact that he discovered DNA.

03:17:07.000 That's the authority for him to speak on his own.

03:17:10.000 Please let Nick finish and Destiny can rebuttal.

03:17:12.000 Go ahead.

03:17:13.000 Thank you.

03:17:15.000 For crying out loud.

03:17:15.000 Sheesh.

03:17:17.000 So, James Watson.

03:17:18.000 Well respected economist.

03:17:20.000 He's lived his whole year.

03:17:21.000 They say that his discovery, where he won a Nobel Prize, was maybe one of the most important discoveries in the history of science.

03:17:28.000 Now, I'm not a scientist, so I'm not one to speak, but he's respected.

03:17:32.000 He's well regarded.

03:17:33.000 He's earned his keep.

03:17:34.000 Now, a couple of years ago, he said, and many others have said the same thing, that there are group differences in intelligence.

03:17:42.000 And he said it as a passing remark, as part of a talk.

03:17:45.000 It was a very passing comment.

03:17:47.000 And by the way, the numbers are basically true.

03:17:49.000 This is not really a controversial thing.

03:17:51.000 People like Charles Murray.

03:17:52.000 Many others have talked about it.

03:17:53.000 He said very simply, there are group differences.

03:17:56.000 If you take the average of one group and you take the difference, or rather the average of another, there is a difference in IQ.

03:18:02.000 He didn't say, therefore.

03:18:04.000 He didn't say, and that means, and make a value judgment.

03:18:06.000 He said those differences have a genetic basis.

03:18:08.000 He didn't say there's just a difference between a genetic basis.

03:18:11.000 Excuse me. 0.99

03:18:11.000 He simply said, this is something that is true. 0.99

03:18:13.000 He got his Nobel Prize revoked.

03:18:16.000 He got shut down from every university.

03:18:18.000 He's not allowed to speak anymore.

03:18:19.000 They're taking everything.

03:18:20.000 This is one of the most famous, important scientists in the history of the world.

03:18:23.000 And he issued a mea culpa.

03:18:25.000 He said, I'm sorry.

03:18:26.000 I was reckless.

03:18:27.000 I didn't really mean that.

03:18:28.000 But they completely deplatformed this guy.

03:18:30.000 He actually, I don't think they took his Nobel Prize away.

03:18:32.000 He had to sell it because he's literally running out of money because nobody will host him anywhere.

03:18:36.000 He can't get a job in university.

03:18:38.000 And so when you look at something like that, you really begin to wonder at what point does this system tolerate any kind of dissent?

03:18:46.000 You have to wonder maybe it's not so much you don't see left wing terrorism because it's not inherently violent, but because there's no reason for them to commit asymmetrical anti state terrorism.

03:18:56.000 A right wing person is on the outs, they're on the fringe.

03:18:59.000 Who do they have to look up to in media, government, anywhere?

03:19:02.000 A left wing person, you've got all these major corporations all doing it.

03:19:06.000 I'm going to go to one point.

03:19:07.000 I know this is like a shtick, but I don't mind doing it one on one.

03:19:13.000 Everybody else gets to talk as long as they want.

03:19:15.000 Wait, hold on.

03:19:16.000 Nick, Nick, Nick.

03:19:17.000 I will bet you $500 right now.

03:19:18.000 Do you want to bet on who's talked the most?

03:19:20.000 Do you want to bet on who's talked the most right now?

03:19:22.000 Okay, so for reference, for our last debate, Nick pulled the same thing, too, where he said he felt like he talked for twice as much as me, and somebody went through in kind of the hours, and he talked for two hours to the one hour conversation that I actually had.

03:19:34.000 Yeah, that's my show.

03:19:36.000 That was my show.

03:19:37.000 Okay, okay.

03:19:38.000 Okay, guys, guys, please.

03:19:40.000 This will get us nowhere.

03:19:41.000 Guys, please.

03:19:43.000 Hey, hey, hey.

03:19:45.000 Listen, please.

03:19:46.000 Nick, wrap it up.

03:19:47.000 In the next 30 seconds, wrap it up.

03:19:47.000 Wrap it up, Nick.

03:19:49.000 Destiny, rebuttal.

03:19:50.000 Let's get back to the point.

03:19:51.000 Let's wrap this point up, conclude, and let's get to the next point.

03:19:54.000 We're very dying.

03:19:54.000 All right?

03:19:55.000 Okay, thank you.

03:19:56.000 Destiny, please.

03:19:57.000 This guy's obviously not even listening, so.

03:19:59.000 Sure.

03:19:59.000 So, what you're literally doing is like we can all go on Wikipedia and read an appeal to false authority.

03:20:03.000 Just because you're the discoverer of DNA does not give you the ability to speak with any sort of authority whatsoever on intelligence research. 0.98

03:20:09.000 Then, why are you so upset that the scientific community was so outraged when he started making opinions or making statements on the genetic heritability or whatever of fucking IQ? 0.74

03:20:18.000 I'm not saying that because of his position, his claim was particularly true or relevant. 0.96

03:20:23.000 The point was to say.

03:20:24.000 Wait, wait, no, no, wait.

03:20:25.000 Bill, why are you surprised that his Nobel Committee.

03:20:27.000 Are you going to let me answer the question you just asked? 0.99

03:20:29.000 Well, because if it takes you 20 fucking minutes to answer a pretty simple question, how long will you let you do another fucking diatribe on some random fucking Nazi factoid? 0.99

03:20:36.000 Why do you think that somebody. 0.99

03:20:36.000 I'm just curious. 0.99

03:20:37.000 Here's why I bring it up.

03:20:38.000 Here's why I bring it up.

03:20:39.000 The point being is.

03:20:40.000 Here is somebody.

03:20:41.000 We're not talking about the leader of the KKK.

03:20:43.000 We're not talking about a neo Nazi ideologue.

03:20:46.000 We're talking about a well regarded scientist.

03:20:48.000 The fact that you're well regarded means you have even more responsibility to your speech name.

03:20:53.000 And even a tiny little thing like that, he was completely obliterated and wiped out.

03:20:58.000 The point was obviously no dissent is tolerated by anybody.

03:21:02.000 You say, well, we have to handle responsibly.

03:21:05.000 No, wait, hold on.

03:21:05.000 Come on, dude.

03:21:06.000 I can't do it.

03:21:07.000 I can't let him just go on, dude. 1.00

03:21:08.000 Holy shit. 1.00

03:21:09.000 Like it's literal race realism. 1.00

03:21:10.000 So he didn't just make one random comment.

03:21:12.000 He literally said there was a genetic basis for differences in. 1.00

03:21:15.000 Which is correct. 1.00

03:21:16.000 Which is correct. 0.97

03:21:18.000 Firstly, even if that was correct, he would know fuck all about it because he's not an intelligence researcher. 0.85

03:21:22.000 I don't, maybe you don't believe in science. 0.91

03:21:24.000 He's a genetics researcher.

03:21:25.000 He discovered DNA.

03:21:26.000 He's just not a genetic scientist.

03:21:27.000 Okay.

03:21:28.000 So do you think that every single person that studies DNA knows everything about DNA?

03:21:31.000 Is that all just like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

03:21:32.000 Because that was one chapter.

03:21:33.000 I believe everybody knows everything about DNA.

03:21:35.000 Because that was one chapter in your sixth grade biology book.

03:21:38.000 You think that every single person that has ever studied DNA.

03:21:40.000 Correct, correct.

03:21:40.000 Yeah, I think about that.

03:21:41.000 Okay, that's cool.

03:21:42.000 All right, no, that's awesome.

03:21:43.000 So maybe I can educate you or some of your audience here. 0.98

03:21:45.000 Yeah, so intelligence research in and of itself is a massive fucking field. 0.99

03:21:48.000 That spans several disciplines between psychology, between biology, between fucking. 0.99

03:21:52.000 between so many different fucking things that are involved in this, okay? 0.98

03:21:55.000 And the people that are. 0.99

03:21:56.000 the people that debate this are also multidisciplinary people that have spent their fucking lives researching this.

03:22:00.000 The fact that you have discovered the double helix or the fact that you've made important contributions to certain types of DNA research doesn't give you the authority all of a sudden to speak on things related to DNA research.

03:22:10.000 I never said that.

03:22:11.000 I never said that.

03:22:11.000 Okay, okay, okay.

03:22:12.000 Okay, so then answer this question.

03:22:14.000 Wait, so answer this question.

03:22:14.000 Hold on.

03:22:15.000 Okay, okay, okay.

03:22:16.000 Let me ask you a question over here.

03:22:16.000 Okay, let me hear you.

03:22:17.000 Let me ask you a question over here.

03:22:18.000 If you didn't say that, Then why are you surprised when somebody that is held as an esteemed researcher or scientist starts making incredibly irresponsible statements outside of his field of expertise?

03:22:28.000 Why are you surprised when the scientific community would disavow him?

03:22:30.000 The point being is this you just said it was an obviously controversial and broad subject.

03:22:35.000 He offered a view which is heterodox about that subject.

03:22:39.000 And even in spite, the point was to illustrate that he is not a political operative.

03:22:45.000 He did not march at Charlottesville, he was not the leader of the KKK.

03:22:48.000 This was somebody who was apolitical, a scientist, and he could not.

03:22:52.000 Again, offer a contrary opinion on a controversial scientific genetic matter without being completely wiped out.

03:22:59.000 And again, it's not like he wrote a book about it.

03:23:01.000 It's not like he wrote a book about here's why these people are inferior.

03:23:04.000 It's not like he delivered a lecture about it.

03:23:06.000 Your argument is supporting my point of view.

03:23:09.000 The fact that he was held on what his beliefs were on the subject.

03:23:12.000 The fact that he was held on what his beliefs were on the subject.

03:23:14.000 Don't even let me finish the question.

03:23:15.000 Both of you, both of you, both of you, please calm down.

03:23:18.000 Esmengo, please go ahead.

03:23:20.000 That Destiny said that the reason that people were against him is because he was talking about something he wasn't educated in.

03:23:28.000 It didn't necessarily have to do with what he was saying was accurate or not.

03:23:34.000 That's not why he got wiped out.

03:23:36.000 That's not why I get Noam Chomsky talks about politics.

03:23:39.000 Noam Chomsky is a linguist.

03:23:40.000 Does anybody say you can't have a job in a university because you talk about politics?

03:23:44.000 No, I'm just saying there's an entirely different concept here. 0.95

03:23:47.000 Noam Chomsky's written many books and conducted a fuckload of political research and has also taught politics at the PhD level to hundreds of, if not thousands of fucking students. 0.94

03:23:57.000 So it's a little different. 0.99

03:23:58.000 It doesn't mean you know anything about fucking intelligence. 0.99

03:24:00.000 Just because Noam Chomsky wrote a book about politics doesn't mean he knows about politics? 1.00

03:24:05.000 Yeah, because it's a fucking linguist, Destiny, by your standards. 0.97

03:24:08.000 No, but he has published papers relating to political things. 0.98

03:24:11.000 He's obviously capable of educating people on politics at institutions.

03:24:19.000 What is really the argument?

03:24:20.000 I feel the next point is merely commenting on this.

03:24:24.000 James Watson was destroyed.

03:24:27.000 Yeah, so here's the point.

03:24:29.000 The point is that somebody who is held in very high regard, somebody who is very important to the scientific community, grossly stepped outside of his lane and started to offer.

03:24:39.000 And started to offer these explanations saying that, like, well, the differences in IQ between people is genetic.

03:24:44.000 This was a horribly irresponsible statement. 1.00

03:24:46.000 It empowers the fuck out of Nazi scum like fucking Nick. 1.00

03:24:49.000 It is not his area of expertise. 1.00

03:24:51.000 It is not something he was able to substantiate in any way, size, shape, or form.

03:24:54.000 And the fact that you continue to appeal to, well, he was really important, only supports my argument.

03:24:58.000 Of course, he was a really important figure.

03:24:59.000 That's exactly why people like this shouldn't be making these types of statements.

03:25:02.000 You're saying that the statement that he made was untrue.

03:25:06.000 Like, on top of it being outside of his area of expertise, It's not something that he studied.

03:25:11.000 It's not something that he studied or he's qualified to comment on.

03:25:15.000 Whether or not it's actually true, no one knows the answer right now.

03:25:17.000 It's incredibly true.

03:25:19.000 Why is this?

03:25:20.000 Here's what I don't understand.

03:25:21.000 Why can't we take away that honor? 0.95

03:25:24.000 Like, why can't we take away that, you know, his honorary degree or whatever the fuck they took away from him?

03:25:29.000 Sorry, his honorary title's awarded to him.

03:25:32.000 That's not, no, you don't understand the scope of what we're talking about.

03:25:35.000 He can't get a job anywhere.

03:25:37.000 He had to sell his Nobel Prize.

03:25:38.000 He was universally ostracized in the academic community.

03:25:43.000 I'm so sorry that. 0.94

03:25:43.000 People by and large have a negative opinion of people who are talking out of their asses when it comes to the fact that you're in a position of authority, you are using that position of authority in a dangerously irresponsible manner. 0.94

03:25:55.000 You are missing the point, you're completely missing it. 0.74

03:25:57.000 Does not protect you from the freedom of consequences.

03:26:00.000 There's no such thing as completely missing the point on this. 0.67

03:26:05.000 The point, the problem here is that Nick wants that person not to get any sort of Nick wants that person not to get fucking banished from society. 0.64

03:26:14.000 Not to even get criticized.

03:26:15.000 That's the issue.

03:26:16.000 He can get criticized.

03:26:17.000 He can get criticized.

03:26:19.000 Okay.

03:26:20.000 All right.

03:26:20.000 Are you going to be the person who's now.

03:26:22.000 If I go and watch the Avengers at the end of the month and I don't like it, should I be banished from society for voicing an unpopular or controversial opinion?

03:26:31.000 Because that's what you're saying.

03:26:33.000 It's not simply a controversial opinion.

03:26:35.000 And the fact that you keep conflating it, or the fact that you keep making it seem as though it's like you keep minimizing the impact of saying something like there are genetic differences between intelligence and IQ, a thing that is the justification for the reason why all of these unfounded scientific things that we threw away, like phrenology and shit, and all the race realism that's now making a comeback with all the white nationalism that we see,

03:27:01.000 the reason why it's not just a simple difference in opinion is because it is damaging. 0.97

03:27:05.000 And it literally fucking justifies the ethnostaters and the violent ethnostaters. 0.91

03:27:12.000 No, it doesn't. 0.98

03:27:13.000 It does not justify anything.

03:27:15.000 Well, why is thinking that?

03:27:17.000 Hassan, it only justifies what they think if you agree with the premises they set up.

03:27:22.000 Okay?

03:27:23.000 I don't agree with those premises.

03:27:24.000 Surely you don't either, right?

03:27:26.000 So look, right?

03:27:27.000 Let's not talk about IQ.

03:27:28.000 Let's talk about height, right?

03:27:30.000 Different groups of people have different average heights.

03:27:32.000 This is probably genetic.

03:27:33.000 That's probably just the way things are, right?

03:27:35.000 But that doesn't make them any less human.

03:27:38.000 It doesn't mean that Sargon going for racism.

03:27:40.000 It's human rights.

03:27:41.000 I think so. 0.99

03:27:42.000 It doesn't.

03:27:44.000 You can sit in denial of whatever this thing says.

03:27:47.000 And I don't even know why these things are like that, right?

03:27:49.000 But there is no doubt that there are differences between groups of humans in various different factors.

03:27:54.000 That is in doubt.

03:27:55.000 That is a highly contentious point, Sargon. 1.00

03:27:57.000 That's a fucking stupid thing to say, Destiny. 1.00

03:27:59.000 There are over 200. 1.00

03:27:59.000 No, that's not. 1.00

03:28:01.000 No, no, no. 0.99

03:28:01.000 Just because there are some traits that may or may not be factored related to your fucking genetics doesn't mean that we can say something like intelligence, which is a Highly polygenetic trait. 0.99

03:28:11.000 It's something that can be. 0.97

03:28:13.000 Okay, if you want to talk about height, nobody's going to disagree with you, but this is called a button daily, right?

03:28:18.000 You've just conceded the whole point.

03:28:20.000 You've just conceded the whole point.

03:28:22.000 Wait, okay, so if somebody were to make the argument, some people could have two hearts and some people could have one heart, and I go, well, what do you mean?

03:28:26.000 You're like, well, some people are taller and some people are shorter. 0.98

03:28:29.000 Does that mean I concede that fucking point? 0.99

03:28:30.000 Of course not. 1.00

03:28:31.000 This is a fucking BS witch. 1.00

03:28:32.000 Just because there might be variances in height between two different groups, why is it so subtle? 1.00

03:28:36.000 You guys, dude, honestly, you guys should go fucking publish articles in nature right now because this is such a heated debate in the fucking research community. 0.93

03:28:42.000 You guys could solve it right now. 0.98

03:28:43.000 Like, LOL, you guys think that some differences in IQ isn't genetic?

03:28:46.000 Well, just look, some groups of people are taller than others. 0.99

03:28:48.000 Oh, I solved the whole fucking issue. 0.99

03:28:50.000 If only science were that fucking easy. 0.99

03:28:52.000 If only science were that fucking easy. 1.00

03:28:53.000 Holy shit. 1.00

03:28:54.000 Why do we waste so much time educating people? 1.00

03:28:56.000 We've got 22 year old fucking Nazis on fucking YouTube over here that are educating everybody on how intelligence research works. 0.99

03:29:02.000 Why are you getting so upset about this? 1.00

03:29:04.000 Right?

03:29:04.000 Look at this.

03:29:05.000 Let's dial this back for a minute.

03:29:05.000 Let's go ahead.

03:29:07.000 Sargon's argument was that because there are differences like height that are naturally observable, That vary between different groups of people based off of their ethnicity, then the assumption would be there could also be other differences besides that.

03:29:26.000 Is that what you're saying, Sargon?

03:29:27.000 The point is, I mean, sure, and undoubtedly, I think it would be against the theory of evolution if groups of people who had evolved in different situations didn't have physical differences.

03:29:38.000 I think that would be an impossibility.

03:29:40.000 But the point is, it doesn't matter because, I mean, for example, we don't kick people out of our society for being low IQ.

03:29:47.000 We don't kick people out of society for being high IQ or anything.

03:29:50.000 We don't do anything on the.

03:29:52.000 No, no, but I think that you.

03:29:55.000 I know what you're saying, okay?

03:29:56.000 And I can see that line of logic. 0.55

03:29:59.000 But I think that you can also very easily concede that if you have some sort of scientific theory that shows that certain races are dumber than others, that's going to obviously influence the way that people are going to treat and legislate against those different races. 0.65

03:30:13.000 I mean.

03:30:14.000 Well, I don't think we should have any kind of racial legislation. 0.88

03:30:17.000 Well, that's the problem that I think.

03:30:20.000 Sorry, that Destiny and Hassan have with these types of conversations is that they could lead to that legislation.

03:30:27.000 I don't agree.

03:30:27.000 I think the only people doing racial legislation at the moment are the left, and they seem to want to adjust the balances.

03:30:35.000 And the thing is, right?

03:30:37.000 It's not even that we.

03:30:39.000 I mean, the numbers are what the numbers are.

03:30:42.000 Can you explain that? 1.00

03:30:46.000 I'm stupid. 1.00

03:30:47.000 You guys know this. 1.00

03:30:48.000 I'm not a very smart guy.

03:30:49.000 Can you explain what you meant when you said the only people doing racial legislation are on the left? 0.67

03:30:55.000 Affirmative action.

03:30:55.000 Yeah.

03:30:56.000 Yeah.

03:30:57.000 What sort of examples would you give?

03:31:00.000 Okay.

03:31:00.000 All right.

03:31:01.000 Do you think that that's corrective?

03:31:01.000 Studies.

03:31:04.000 No, I don't.

03:31:07.000 You're incapable of just focusing on the point.

03:31:09.000 Wait a second.

03:31:10.000 I don't think that's valid access.

03:31:13.000 I don't think that we should get into the affirmative action debate because we do have another topic that we want to get into.

03:31:19.000 I just want to.

03:31:20.000 And everybody I'm going to talk about is because Sargon and Nick, and perhaps we do this as well, make a lot of points that in this matter of fact way, and it kind of goes unnoticed because, again, they're eloquent speakers and they get to go on for five and Sometimes 10 in Nick's case, minutes uninterrupted.

03:31:38.000 So I sometimes have to just kind of ask them what they mean by that.

03:31:43.000 I'm just a little confused.

03:31:45.000 I do think that we can do a better job being more concise.

03:31:49.000 Yeah.

03:31:50.000 Just to finish that point, the whole thing about IQ varies for many, many, many different reasons.

03:31:59.000 And so even if race is a component, it's really not a very important component.

03:32:03.000 When we know that, for example, in my country, the study was done.

03:32:07.000 Working class people can suffer up to a 15 point IQ depression just for being poor.

03:32:12.000 I mean, it strikes me that that is the first place we should look if we're looking to actually help people become more intelligent.

03:32:18.000 If that's a social goal we have, then that's definitely something that we can talk about and we can look at.

03:32:24.000 And I agree, we're not going to start like, you know, discriminating against people racially or anything like that.

03:32:28.000 I'm like, that is just the wrong thing to do.

03:32:31.000 But destroying someone's life for pointing out that these things are true or false or whatever.

03:32:37.000 That's wrong, man.

03:32:38.000 Procedurally, that is just wrong.

03:32:40.000 We shouldn't be destroying anyone's lives for opinions they hold.

03:32:43.000 I think that there are two different arguments being made here, right?

03:32:47.000 And I think Destiny, there's the argument that his life should or should not be destroyed because he spoke out of his area of expertise.

03:32:56.000 And also, his life should or shouldn't be destroyed because he spoke about something that could be dangerous to society as a whole.

03:33:03.000 And those are two separate discussions.

03:33:06.000 Well, here, if I could just, because I'm the one that brought up the example.

03:33:09.000 So let me.

03:33:10.000 Because I feel like we've really just lost, and I will keep it brief.

03:33:14.000 I will have some brevity here.

03:33:16.000 The question was How do we platform people who are concerned about fertility rates, for example, in a responsible way?

03:33:25.000 And Destiny says, Well, I don't know how we could platform people who say we hate all Jews responsibly, or we have to exterminate a certain group of people responsibly.

03:33:33.000 There's no responsible way to platform an exterminationist. 0.86

03:33:33.000 I agree. 0.86

03:33:36.000 I agree with that.

03:33:37.000 But the point I was trying to illustrate is the fact that even somebody.

03:33:41.000 Who has some degree of legitimacy should maybe be afforded some degree of respect in society.

03:33:47.000 They make a passing remark.

03:33:49.000 Their event isn't even about this topic.

03:33:51.000 The topic of the talk isn't even about this subject, but it comes up in conversation.

03:33:55.000 And maybe you don't agree with it.

03:33:56.000 Maybe it could lead to bad things.

03:33:57.000 But he simply observes or gives his own opinion on a scientific matter.

03:34:00.000 And maybe it's not his area of expertise.

03:34:02.000 But he just mentions in passing, I have this heterodox opinion about this subject, of which, by the way, many IQ experts agree.

03:34:10.000 So this is not a question of mathematical.

03:34:12.000 It was passing.

03:34:13.000 It wasn't, if you look at it, it's not everyone.

03:34:15.000 It was during election.

03:34:16.000 And he's repeated them multiple times.

03:34:17.000 So the point is, really?

03:34:19.000 Can we not handle it for more than two minutes here?

03:34:19.000 Are we really?

03:34:19.000 Really?

03:34:22.000 Let's just say that.

03:34:23.000 The thing is, he's like saying wrong things. 0.99

03:34:24.000 This is so ridiculous. 0.93

03:34:26.000 You just can't wait more than 30 seconds for the problem. 0.99

03:34:29.000 He's trying to downplay everything he's saying.

03:34:30.000 He didn't say this in passing.

03:34:31.000 He said it during his 2018 documentary. 1.00

03:34:33.000 He said it during fucking lectures. 0.99

03:34:34.000 He's repeated these multiple times. 1.00

03:34:35.000 That's why he's got problems.

03:34:36.000 Let me show up for a second.

03:34:37.000 Asmongold, go ahead.

03:34:38.000 Asmongold, please go ahead.

03:34:38.000 Yes.

03:34:40.000 So, whether he mentioned it in passing or not, whether it was in his debate or not, I don't think this conversation, this point matters.

03:34:51.000 So let's just skip it.

03:34:53.000 Yeah, obviously.

03:34:54.000 Obviously, people are getting hung up on that.

03:34:56.000 That's not my.

03:34:56.000 Remember, you are also going to wipe on it because you're using language to downplay the way that he expressed it.

03:34:56.000 Fault.

03:35:02.000 The point is simply to demonstrate.

03:35:05.000 Okay.

03:35:05.000 If you're saying, the point is to demonstrate, if you're saying what is the responsible way to platform people, it appears that there is simply no tolerance.

03:35:14.000 That was the point I'm trying to get across.

03:35:17.000 Okay.

03:35:17.000 Even if you're talking about somebody who's not an ideologue, like they're not a Nazi or whatever, but you're not even willing to tolerate dissent on that level, that an expert in the field of science generally.

03:35:29.000 Cannot make a claim which you disagree with, which you might think could lead to bad things and you disagree with, without his entire life being destroyed.

03:35:37.000 That was the point.

03:35:38.000 The point is to say that, you know, obviously dissent against the system, no matter how moderate, no matter how infrequent, no matter who's saying it, is not tolerated to any extent.

03:35:48.000 That was the point.

03:35:49.000 Not that he's a scientist and therefore he's correct.

03:35:52.000 And the point was not even about race and IQ.

03:35:53.000 It's about how can we express dissent in a way that is responsible and appropriate because the left seems to not tolerate any of it.

03:36:00.000 Do you feel like that his, like, and just to wrap this up, I don't know, Destiny or Hassan, if you guys want to have any closing thoughts.

03:36:06.000 Let's, Asimo, before you finish that, let's, as soon as you finish your statement, I want to do the wrap up.

03:36:12.000 As soon as Nick answers that, that'll be his wrap up.

03:36:15.000 We'll go over to Sargon, Destiny, then Hassan, then let's move on.

03:36:19.000 Okay.

03:36:19.000 Yeah, that's what I meant to say.

03:36:20.000 The guy whose life got destroyed was a me.

03:36:22.000 By the way, he sold that Nobel Prize for like $5 million.

03:36:24.000 So also, he already agreed to appear in a documentary in like fucking 2018, already, like, related to stuff like this. 0.58

03:36:30.000 And he repeated the same views that he had that he first got in trouble for. 0.68

03:36:33.000 In that documentary.

03:36:34.000 Do you think that, Nick, do you think that in any way it was irresponsible for him to express that while it's not necessarily his area of expertise?

03:36:44.000 I think that's absurd.

03:36:46.000 No, I think people give their unsolicited opinions on areas that are not their expertise all the time.

03:36:51.000 What are we all doing here?

03:36:52.000 What are we all doing here if that's such a crime?

03:36:54.000 Don't you know?

03:36:55.000 I don't think that's entirely true because don't you feel like he has a responsibility as being somebody who is a scientist and whose opinion will, by default, Be taken more seriously to take a larger amount of caution whenever he's saying things like this that could be interpreted in a way.

03:37:13.000 And I don't think you can necessarily treat the person who, even as you said, discovered DNA as just an average person who's talking about something they don't know about, especially when it's so close to what he's actually so well known for.

03:37:25.000 No, I don't think that's irresponsible at all.

03:37:28.000 I think people, I think it's irresponsible to not tell the truth, frankly.

03:37:32.000 You know, our society is falling apart because.

03:37:34.000 People prefer nice lies as opposed to hard truths.

03:37:37.000 And that's your response.

03:37:39.000 So you're saying what he said was true?

03:37:42.000 I'm saying if he believes what he's saying is true, it's irresponsible to not tell the truth.

03:37:47.000 Well, let's go ahead and get some closing thoughts.

03:37:47.000 Okay.

03:37:49.000 Wait, can I give a closing thought to that?

03:37:51.000 Can we do Sargon, then you?

03:37:53.000 Yeah, go for it.

03:37:54.000 Sargon, go.

03:37:54.000 Okay.

03:37:54.000 Yeah.

03:37:55.000 Sure.

03:37:56.000 The question about James Watson is kind of red herring again, but the point really isn't the truth or not of the question of IQ.

03:38:06.000 The point is he.

03:38:08.000 Was absolutely demolished for saying things, even if it was in lectures and what, that are just politically incorrect.

03:38:16.000 And it was this political incorrectness that got him demolished.

03:38:20.000 We don't know about, like, this is the point.

03:38:22.000 It's still a huge field that has so much disagreement within it.

03:38:26.000 We haven't got a certain answer on this.

03:38:28.000 But for him giving one perspective that may or may not be correct, he got absolutely smashed.

03:38:34.000 And that's the problem.

03:38:36.000 That's what Nick was speaking to earlier about the radicalization, nostalgization, and the demolition of people who hold these, what are quite out there, out there views.

03:38:46.000 His wasn't, like he said, he wasn't a Nazi.

03:38:49.000 He wasn't like a KKK guy.

03:38:50.000 He wasn't, you know, picking up a gun like the Christchurch shooter.

03:38:54.000 He was a professor.

03:38:56.000 And So now we're at the point where we have to find a way of finding these lunatics and kind of rehabilitating them.

03:39:02.000 And I agree that people who want genocide, obviously not them.

03:39:07.000 Obviously not them.

03:39:08.000 They can just be like in the chat when they're watching or something and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, gas everyone or whatever it is.

03:39:14.000 But get the people who are not advocating for that and ask them, okay, what is the concern that you have?

03:39:18.000 And what truth do you think you have?

03:39:20.000 And then we can analyze it and see if it's correct.

03:39:23.000 And then if there's something true about it, then the onus is on us to take that into consideration.

03:39:28.000 Like the birth rates in Denmark and whatnot.

03:39:30.000 That is a true thing, and we should consider it.

03:39:33.000 But the thing is, as soon as we start doing that, then it kind of undermines the foundations of a lot of leftist ideology.

03:39:39.000 I mean, like Hassan earlier said, well, we'll just bring in people from elsewhere and they'll become like us.

03:39:43.000 It's like, okay, but that's not happening in Britain in many parts.

03:39:47.000 And it's not because they can't, but because they're not incentivized to be so because of the sheer number of people who have come in.

03:39:54.000 And that's really the problem.

03:39:56.000 It's the number rather than where they've come from.

03:40:00.000 Okay.

03:40:01.000 And that's the true thing that I think needs to be spoken about.

03:40:03.000 Yeah, I do remember that statement. 0.83

03:40:05.000 Yeah, Hassan. 0.99

03:40:06.000 Well, actually, you know what? 0.96

03:40:07.000 Let's not even get into that.

03:40:08.000 Yeah, I was just.

03:40:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:40:10.000 Destiny, go ahead. 0.70

03:40:11.000 Let's go ahead and have.

03:40:13.000 Destiny, please take your time.

03:40:15.000 Say everything you need to. 0.99

03:40:16.000 Same as Hassan.

03:40:17.000 Uninterrupted, guys, please.

03:40:18.000 Same respect.

03:40:18.000 Go ahead.

03:40:19.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't have a lot.

03:40:20.000 I mean, we're revolving around this one topic a lot of this James Watson guy.

03:40:24.000 Like, when you're a scientific researcher, there are certain standards that we hold scientific researchers to.

03:40:28.000 We rely on these people to give us truthful pieces of information because we can't do this on our own.

03:40:34.000 We drive cars every day, not because we are chemical engineers that can put together engines, but because we rely on people getting the facts correct at a higher level before we ever get the actual product.

03:40:43.000 This is true in every single part of our lives.

03:40:44.000 We rely on people to know what they're talking about when it comes to policy.

03:40:47.000 We rely on people knowing what they're talking about when it comes to engineering, when it comes to scientific theory, when it comes to physics, when our microprocessors are put together.

03:40:54.000 These people are held to a higher level of responsibility when it comes to public discourse because we look up to them so much.

03:41:00.000 So when you get somebody that is an esteemed professor or has done research, Or has stolen research or has done something in order to publish a finding that we consider very important, then it is absolutely critical that this person realizes that every statement they give is going to be extremely scrutinized and held to a very high standard.

03:41:15.000 You absolutely have a responsibility, not only to public discourse, but maybe even to humankind as a whole, or at the very least to your own scientific community, to make sure that you are not irresponsibly disseminating horrible information that you have no right to talk about in a public forum.

03:41:29.000 It's just absolutely horrible to do it.

03:41:30.000 And I hope that, I know that most scientists, because most of them disavowed Watson when he did it, understand this incredibly important concept that is like the underpinning to how scientific people or communities function.

03:41:39.000 At least in this planet.

03:41:40.000 So, you think he should have a higher, I guess, like expectation of his.

03:41:44.000 Yeah, absolutely.

03:41:45.000 It's like it's a cornerstone to like scientific discourse.

03:41:48.000 Yeah, that, yeah, where we exist now.

03:41:50.000 It's not like they killed the guy, they took away the honors.

03:41:53.000 Like, this is the thing I don't understand.

03:41:55.000 Like, if you're not, if you're an institution that wants to maintain its integrity and you take away the honors from this dude that you had honored originally for going around and damaging that institution, then yeah, that's a completely understandable thing to do.

03:42:12.000 Can I come back at that just for a minute?

03:42:14.000 I do feel like also that is a little bit counter to what you were saying about like the whole like being able to, you know, support yourself and everything.

03:42:22.000 I think like a very core tenet of socialism is being able to support yourself and speak out and not have to worry about that kind of stuff as much.

03:42:29.000 And whenever this person, like removing his honors, I think is absolutely downplaying what actually happened apparently is that he's unable to find a job, which destiny says is untrue.

03:42:39.000 But let's assume that it is true.

03:42:42.000 Whenever you're completely disbarred and removed from the society that you're able to make a living in, I think it's much more severe than.

03:42:49.000 Just having your honors removed, especially whenever you're living and your means to support yourself and live is part of it.

03:42:59.000 Well, I mean, like, the thing is, you have to look at it from the institution side as well.

03:43:02.000 Like, who are you going to force somebody to take on, like, this person who's kind of like ostracized themselves from the side of the world?

03:43:07.000 Yeah, absolutely right.

03:43:08.000 I mean, there's it's a two part thing.

03:43:10.000 I just feel like I feel like you can look at it from both directions.

03:43:14.000 Yeah, well, I mean, you can, but like, so it would be like if let's say I'm in the gaming community and I'm like, I just don't think anyone should play video games ever.

03:43:20.000 The reason I said that is because Hassan, like, talks a lot about socialist stuff.

03:43:24.000 Sure.

03:43:24.000 I do feel like that was kind of a little bit of a problem.

03:43:26.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry that I don't feel that bad for the race realist who sold his Nobel Peace Prize and made a fuckload of money at the age of 90.

03:43:34.000 And it's not like he's rejected from society altogether.

03:43:39.000 The institutions that had honored him in the past have taken away that honor. 0.98

03:43:44.000 If this is the price that people like Nick Fuentes cannot even come to terms with for someone who disrespects the scientific method and uses their position of authority to spread, you know, race realist bullshit.

03:43:58.000 Then I don't know what we can do.

03:43:59.000 There's no corrective measures that are appropriate.

03:44:01.000 And the problem that I have with this entire conversation is that Nick and Sargon want to be the ones who put the corrective measures in place.

03:44:11.000 They want to be the ones who decide what gets to be said and what doesn't.

03:44:15.000 And that's what's really frustrating to me because throughout the conversation, they tried to make it seem as hard as possible with all of their might.

03:44:22.000 They tried to make it seem as though communism and Nazism was equally as damaging and equally as violent in regards to ideology.

03:44:28.000 And it's very easy and demonstrably.

03:44:33.000 I mean, you can easily show that this is not true.

03:44:38.000 That's all I'm going to say.

03:44:40.000 That was a very nice, long discussion without any interruptions.

03:44:43.000 You guys can learn from me and Sargon.

03:44:46.000 Okay, great.

03:44:47.000 So let's go ahead and go to the next topic. 1.00

03:44:50.000 I hate to do this, chaps, but it's gone four o'clock in the morning here. 1.00

03:44:53.000 Okay, you got to go. 1.00

03:44:53.000 I have to duck out. 1.00

03:44:55.000 I have to leave it 20 minutes too.

03:44:56.000 Sorry, I'm just going to close.

03:44:57.000 I need a hot chocolate, okay?

03:44:58.000 In that case, should we just skip to the last short thing for 20 minutes and wrap it up?

03:45:04.000 Sargon, if you're okay with that?

03:45:05.000 Honestly, it's nearly half full, so I'm going to have to flake.

03:45:09.000 Okay, if that's the case, let's call it right here.

03:45:12.000 I mean, like, honestly, we had a lot of discussions, and even though we only had three of the planned topics, I think we talked about a good half dozen things really important.

03:45:20.000 We had a lot of good discussions, and I think everybody probably learned something out of this.

03:45:24.000 And so, thank you, everybody, for coming on and being part of this.

03:45:27.000 I mean, it was a huge success.

03:45:29.000 I would consider the show a huge success.

03:45:32.000 So, thank you, everybody, for being part of it and being reasonable.

03:45:35.000 And also, another thing that's really important is being willing to come to the table and talk to people who you might completely revile, completely disagree with, and still be willing to have a conversation and be relatively civil.

03:45:47.000 That's really important.

03:45:48.000 And I think that's what is going to lead to any sort of positive change, one way or another.

03:45:54.000 So thank you guys.

03:45:54.000 I completely agree.

03:45:55.000 Thank you very much for inviting me.

03:45:56.000 It's been really good fun.

03:46:00.000 It's been really good fun.

03:46:01.000 I've really enjoyed having the back and forth.

03:46:03.000 I think it's been really valuable.

03:46:05.000 Yeah, it's been.

03:46:07.000 I'm thinking of making this a once a month or once every six weeks thing and bringing on new people, getting new perspectives.

03:46:14.000 And if you guys would all like to come on again, more than welcome to.

03:46:17.000 Asmongold, thank you so much for co hosting, guys.

03:46:19.000 Asmongold's been such a good friend.

03:46:21.000 He supported me, supported the show, supported everything.

03:46:24.000 Nick, Sargon, thank you for coming on.

03:46:26.000 Destiny and Hassan, as always, thank you so much for supporting me as well.

03:46:31.000 And I think it was a great show.

03:46:33.000 It was very positive.

03:46:35.000 It was good vibes, despite some of the arguments and disagreements that you guys still kept it civil.

03:46:39.000 Kept it mature to certain levels.

03:46:41.000 Obviously, there's some banter back and forth, but I think that's natural and normal.

03:46:46.000 Other than that, thank you so much, Sagar.

03:46:48.000 I know your time zone is completely opposite from ours.

03:46:50.000 Like you said, it's, or not, I guess, not completely opposite.

03:46:52.000 It's late.

03:46:52.000 It's 4 a.m. over there.

03:46:53.000 Thank you for making an exception, coming on, and making time for that.

03:46:56.000 Nick, thank you for reaching out.

03:46:57.000 Hassan and Destiny, as always, thank you both so much, Destiny.

03:47:00.000 Amazing.

03:47:01.000 Guys, please shout your channels out.

03:47:03.000 I know, Destiny, are you going live after this?

03:47:06.000 Yeah, probably.

03:47:07.000 Okay, guys, please check them out at twitch.tvslash Destiny.

03:47:10.000 That's D E S T I N Y. He's a great guy, past the politics and past everything else.

03:47:17.000 He's a great dude, awesome person to game with.

03:47:19.000 And in the politics section, he's also a great guy, and he has a good heart and he has good intentions.

03:47:24.000 Hassan Abi, same thing.

03:47:25.000 Twitch.tv says Hassan Abi, H A S A N A B I. Also, you know, I'm trying to put the politics aside because I want you guys to see these people as human beings.

03:47:35.000 They're good people, all of them.

03:47:37.000 Hassan has a very good heart, good intentions.

03:47:37.000 Good hearts.

03:47:39.000 I don't endorse this message, by the way, but.

03:47:41.000 Okay, well then.

03:47:43.000 Me either.

03:47:44.000 Here's what I mean.

03:47:45.000 Here's what I mean.

03:47:45.000 I know.

03:47:47.000 I know Destiny and Hassan.

03:47:48.000 You don't want to say these things.

03:47:50.000 Just for the record, I'm just going to put that out there.

03:47:54.000 Okay, then.

03:47:55.000 Okay, you know what?

03:47:56.000 Twitch.tv.

03:47:56.000 I'll keep it simple.

03:47:58.000 I'm so sorry.

03:48:00.000 You know what?

03:48:00.000 My intentions were.

03:48:01.000 Twitch.tv.

03:48:01.000 It doesn't matter.

03:48:02.000 Listen, you can do you, okay?

03:48:02.000 Intentions can be good.

03:48:03.000 I love everybody.

03:48:04.000 Twitch.tv.

03:48:05.000 Hassan Abi, guys.

03:48:06.000 Please check him out.

03:48:07.000 Nick, I believe you're having a show after this, correct?

03:48:09.000 That's right.

03:48:10.000 America First with Nicholas J. Fuentes.

03:48:10.000 Yeah.

03:48:12.000 I'll be going live probably in 10 minutes or something.

03:48:14.000 Okay, and what is your Twitch?

03:48:17.000 Well, it's not on Twitch, but my Twitch is Nick J. Fuentes.

03:48:20.000 Awesome.

03:48:20.000 If you want to shout out your YouTube or whatever you do outside of this, you're more than welcome to.

03:48:25.000 Yeah.

03:48:25.000 Well, thanks.

03:48:25.000 All right.

03:48:26.000 I'll be live Monday through Friday, 7 p.m. Central, 8 p.m. Eastern.

03:48:29.000 America first with Nicholas J. Fuentes, just a political podcast.

03:48:33.000 And I'll be going live, like I said, about 10 minutes after this.

03:48:36.000 Okay.

03:48:36.000 And then Sargon, thank you for being here as well.

03:48:39.000 You're actually very calm.

03:48:41.000 You know, I've had a really good time.

03:48:44.000 It's been really good fun having the back.

03:48:47.000 My YouTube channel, Sargon of a Cad.

03:48:49.000 If you put it in the Google machine, you'll probably find me.

03:48:52.000 And yeah, I.

03:48:53.000 I consider myself just a liberal centrist.

03:48:54.000 And you know what's funny is that like 20 years ago, I was firmly defending the left wing from the evangelicals when I was arguing with people on the internet.

03:49:04.000 And now it's very interesting how I'm defending like the right wing from the left.

03:49:08.000 It's like you never had any principles at all.

03:49:10.000 Well, no, my principle is to actually stick up for the people being bullied.

03:49:14.000 Yeah, the poor Nazis who are being bullied.

03:49:16.000 No, no, no, I don't know.

03:49:17.000 Yeah, they are.

03:49:18.000 Guys, guys, that's like ours.

03:49:19.000 This is topic for me.

03:49:20.000 It's literally what you're saying.

03:49:22.000 Yeah, but when they come to bully you, I'll stick up for them.

03:49:26.000 You hear that, Sonny?

03:49:27.000 It says, when people come to bully you, you'll say something for you, Sonny, too.

03:49:30.000 Thank you, thank you, thank you.

03:49:31.000 People do bully me. 0.95

03:49:32.000 It's usually the Nazis, but it's okay. 0.93

03:49:34.000 I think I can deal with it. 1.00

03:49:35.000 I'm going to go out on a limb here.

03:49:37.000 I'm going to say something that I hate myself for saying, but you know what?

03:49:40.000 I actually believe Sargon when he says that. 0.98

03:49:42.000 Because when I got banned from Twitter, fucking slippery fucking Nick here, along with a whole bunch of other people, celebrated the fuck out of it. 0.97

03:49:47.000 When Sargon got banned from Twitter, I told him I'm sorry and it sucked and he thanked me for it. 0.99

03:49:51.000 And I think when I got banned, I think he said something similar about me.

03:49:53.000 So, amen, Sargon.

03:49:55.000 I believe what you said.

03:49:58.000 I'm getting my head from Twitter.

03:50:00.000 How about that?

03:50:01.000 No, no, no.

03:50:02.000 The thing is, I legit believe that you guys have approached this with good intentions as well.

03:50:06.000 Like, I honestly believe you, Hassan, you have good intentions.

03:50:09.000 I just think that you're falling into a worldview that is, honestly, kind of destructive.

03:50:13.000 And Destiny, there's like, Destiny's one of the best debaters I've ever seen.

03:50:18.000 He's unironically one of just the best debaters in format, if nothing else.

03:50:23.000 So, you know, it's been a real pleasure to be in like good company.

03:50:27.000 Honestly, it really has.

03:50:29.000 But, right.

03:50:29.000 So I'm going to shoot off.

03:50:30.000 But thank you again.

03:50:32.000 Yeah.

03:50:32.000 Thank you guys so much.

03:50:33.000 Have a great, great night.

03:50:34.000 Asmongold, once again, thank you so much for co hosting.

03:50:36.000 I'll see you next time, hopefully, on the show as well.

03:50:38.000 Twitch.tv slash Asmongold, twitter.com slash Asmongold, correct?

03:50:41.000 That's it.

03:50:42.000 Awesome.

03:50:42.000 All right.

03:50:43.000 Have a great, great night.

03:50:43.000 Thank you guys.

03:50:44.000 I'll see you guys later.

03:50:45.000 Thank you guys.

03:50:45.000 Bye.

03:50:46.000 Thanks.

03:50:47.000 Bye bye.

America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - April 06, 2019

SARGON OF AKKAD, TYT's HASAN PIKER, DESTINY, NICK F, & co-host ASMONGOLD - POLITICAL PODCAST

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