America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - Tucker vs Lex Fridman Reaction

00:01:07.000 Let's do it!

00:03:28.000 We're good to go.

00:04:38.000 We're good to go.

00:05:30.000 I don't know.

00:06:58.000 We're good to go.

00:07:59.000 I don't know.

00:08:29.000 We're good to go.

00:11:16.000 We're good. 1.00

00:11:42.000 Fuck you, nigga. 1.00

00:11:43.000 Fuck you. 1.00

00:11:44.000 I can't take this shit. 1.00

00:12:20.000 Hey, what's going on, everybody? 1.00

00:12:27.000 It's me, Nick Fuentes, back with another stream.

00:12:33.000 Today, we're gonna be watching the Tucker Carlson-Lex Fridman interview.

00:12:37.000 I had no idea they were gonna do this, but it dropped, I think, yesterday, so I said I just gotta cover it.

00:12:45.000 So, it's three hours.

00:12:47.000 I don't know if we'll watch the whole thing.

00:12:50.000 We'll watch as much of it as you like.

00:12:53.000 How's that?

00:12:56.000 We'll watch a lot of it, I think.

00:12:57.000 Maybe all of it, I don't know.

00:12:58.000 We'll skip around, because these... I can't do three whole hours, but...

00:13:03.000 Uh, well, we'll maybe watch most of it.

00:13:06.000 But anyway, check in in the live chat if you're here.

00:13:09.000 Say what's up.

00:13:10.000 What's going on, everybody?

00:13:12.000 Pop in.

00:13:13.000 Say hey.

00:13:13.000 We got FishGroiper, KebabRemover, CalliZoomer, TrumpSellGroiperBurger, AngloZoomer.

00:13:23.000 What's up, AngloZoomer? 1.00

00:13:28.000 KaiserRev, PanhandleGroiper.

00:13:31.000 What's up, everybody?

00:13:35.000 All right.

00:13:36.000 Let me post on telegram, let everybody know we're live, and then we'll dive into it.

00:13:44.000 Let's see.

00:13:47.000 Okay.

00:13:48.000 All right.

00:13:49.000 Here we go.

00:13:50.000 We're locked in.

00:13:51.000 I'm gonna pause the music so we can hear the stream.

00:13:55.000 Okay.

00:13:57.000 Depending on the questions you ask.

00:13:58.000 We can skip the intro.

00:14:01.000 What was your first impression when you met Vladimir Putin for the interview?

00:14:06.000 I thought he seemed nervous.

00:14:08.000 And I was very surprised by that.

00:14:12.000 And I thought he seemed like someone who'd overthought it a little bit, who had a plan.

00:14:18.000 And I don't think that's the right way to go into any interview.

00:14:20.000 My strong sense, having done a lot of them for a long time, is that it's better to know what you think, to say, you know, as much as you can, honestly, so you don't get confused by your own lies.

00:14:33.000 And just to be yourself.

00:14:34.000 And I thought that he went into it like an over-prepared student.

00:14:41.000 And I kept thinking, why is he nervous?

00:14:44.000 But, you know, I guess because he thought a lot of people were going to see it.

00:14:47.000 But he was also probably prepared to give you a full lesson in history, as he did.

00:14:54.000 Well, I was totally shocked by that and very annoyed because I thought he was filibustering.

00:15:00.000 I mean, I asked him, as I usually do, the most obvious, dumbest question ever, which is, you know, why'd you do this?

00:15:09.000 And he had said in a speech that I think is worth reading, I don't speak Russian, so I haven't heard it in the original, but he had said at the moment of the beginning of the war, he had given this address to Russians in which he explained to the fullest extent we have seen so far why he was doing this.

00:15:30.000 And he said in that speech, I fear that NATO, the West, the United States, the Biden administration will preemptively attack us.

00:15:38.000 And I thought, well, that's interesting.

00:15:40.000 I mean, I can't evaluate whether that's a fear rooted in reality or one rooted in paranoia.

00:15:45.000 But I thought, well, that's well, that's an answer right there.

00:15:48.000 And so I alluded to that in my question.

00:15:50.000 And rather than answering it, he went off on this long, from my perspective, kind of... He always says rather.

00:15:55.000 Have you ever noticed that?

00:15:57.000 I said this years ago, but

00:16:00.000 I picked up on this.

00:16:01.000 He always says robber.

00:16:02.000 Why does he say robber?

00:16:03.000 Tiresome, um, sort of greatest hits of Russian history. 1.00

00:16:09.000 And the implication I thought was, well, Ukraine is ours or Eastern Ukraine is ours already.

00:16:14.000 Um, and I thought he was doing that to avoid answering the question.

00:16:18.000 So, you know, the last thing you want when you're interviewing someone is to get rolled.

00:16:23.000 Uh, and I didn't want to be ruled.

00:16:24.000 So I, a couple of times interrupted him politely, I thought, um, but he wasn't having it.

00:16:30.000 And then I thought, you know what?

00:16:32.000 I'm not here to prove that I'm a great interviewer.

00:16:35.000 It's kind of not about me.

00:16:37.000 I want to know who this guy is.

00:16:39.000 I think a Western audience, a global audience has a right to know more about the guy.

00:16:43.000 And so just let him talk.

00:16:45.000 You know, because it's not, you know, I don't feel like my reputation's on the line.

00:16:49.000 People have already drawn conclusions about me, I suppose, to the extent they have.

00:16:53.000 I'm not interested really in those conclusions anyway.

00:16:56.000 So just let him talk.

00:16:57.000 And so I calmed down and just let him talk.

00:16:59.000 And in retrospect, I thought that was really, really interesting.

00:17:02.000 You know, whether you agree with it or not, or whether you think it's relevant to the war in Ukraine or not, that was his answer.

00:17:08.000 And so it's inherently significant.

00:17:10.000 Well, you said he was nervous.

00:17:11.000 Were you nervous?

00:17:12.000 Were you afraid?

00:17:13.000 This is Vladimir Putin.

00:17:15.000 I wasn't afraid at all.

00:17:17.000 And I wasn't nervous at all.

00:17:18.000 Did you drink tea beforehand?

00:17:20.000 I did my normal regimen of nicotine pouches and coffee.

00:17:28.000 No, I'm not a tea drinker. 0.99

00:17:29.000 I tried not to eat all the sweets they put in front of us, which that is my weakness, is eating crap. 0.72

00:17:36.000 But you eat a lot of sugar, as you know, before an interview, and it does dull you.

00:17:39.000 So I successfully resisted that.

00:17:41.000 But no, I wasn't nervous.

00:17:42.000 I wasn't nervous the whole time I was there.

00:17:43.000 Why would I be?

00:17:45.000 I'm 54.

00:17:46.000 My kids are grown.

00:17:47.000 I believe in God.

00:17:48.000 I'm almost never nervous.

00:17:51.000 No, I wasn't nervous.

00:17:52.000 I was just interested.

00:17:52.000 I mean, I couldn't... I'm interested in Soviet history.

00:17:55.000 I studied it in college.

00:17:56.000 I've read about it my entire life.

00:17:57.000 My dad worked in the Cold War.

00:17:59.000 It was a constant topic of conversation.

00:18:01.000 And so to be in the Kremlin in a room where Stalin made decisions, either wartime decisions or decisions about murdering his own population, I just couldn't get over it.

00:18:09.000 We were in Molotov's old office.

00:18:12.000 So for me, I was just blown away by that.

00:18:15.000 I thought I knew a lot about Russia.

00:18:18.000 It turns out I knew a lot about the Soviet period, the 1937 purge trials, the famine in Ukraine.

00:18:24.000 I knew a fair amount about that, but I really knew nothing about contemporary Russia, less than I thought I did, it turned out.

00:18:31.000 But yeah, I was just blown away by where we were, and that's kind of one of the main drivers at this stage in my life.

00:18:41.000 That's why I do what I do is because I'm interested in stuff, and I want to see as much as I can and try and draw conclusions from it to the extent I can.

00:18:49.000 So I was very much caught up in that, but no, I wasn't nervous.

00:18:51.000 I didn't think he was going to kill me or something, and I'm not particularly afraid of that anyway.

00:18:56.000 Not afraid of dying.

00:18:57.000 Not really, no.

00:18:59.000 I mean, again, it's an age and stage in life thing.

00:19:05.000 I mean, I have four children, so there were times when they were little where I was terrified of dying, because if I died, it would have huge consequences.

00:19:13.000 But no, I mean, at this point, I don't want to die.

00:19:16.000 I'm really enjoying my life.

00:19:19.000 I've been with the same girl for 40 years and I have four children who I'm extremely close to, well now five, a daughter-in-law, and I love them all.

00:19:27.000 I'm really close to them.

00:19:28.000 I tell them I love them every day.

00:19:29.000 I don't, I've had a really interesting life.

00:19:33.000 What was the goal?

00:19:34.000 Just linger on that.

00:19:35.000 What was the goal for the interview?

00:19:36.000 Like, how were you thinking about it?

00:19:37.000 What would success be like in your head leading into it?

00:19:40.000 To bring more information.

00:19:41.000 Disinformation.

00:19:42.000 To the public.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:19:43.000 I mean, I have really strong feelings about

00:19:48.000 What's, you know, happening, not just in Ukraine or Russia, but around the world.

00:19:52.000 I think the world is resetting to the grave disadvantage of the United States.

00:19:56.000 I don't think most Americans are aware of that at all.

00:19:59.000 And, uh, so that's my view.

00:20:01.000 And I've, I've stated it many times, um, because it's sincere, but my goal was to

00:20:09.000 You have more information brought to the West so people could make their own decisions about whether this is a good idea.

00:20:16.000 I mean, I just, I guess I reject the whole premise of the war in Ukraine from the American perspective, which is, you know, a tiny group of dumb people in Washington has decided to do this for reasons they won't really explain.

00:20:28.000 And you don't have a role in it at all as an American citizen, as the person who's paying for it, whose children might be drafted to fight it. 0.96

00:20:36.000 Just shut up and obey.

00:20:37.000 I just reject that completely. 0.98

00:20:39.000 I guess I'm a child of a different era.

00:20:42.000 I'm a child of participatory democracy to some extent, where your opinion as a citizen is not irrelevant.

00:20:48.000 And I guess the level of lying about it was starting to drive me crazy.

00:20:56.000 And I will say again, I am not an expert on the region or really any region other than say Western Maine.

00:21:01.000 I'm not Russian.

00:21:06.000 But it was obvious to me that we were being lied to in ways that were just... It was crazy, the scale of lies.

00:21:12.000 And I'll give you one example.

00:21:14.000 The idea that Ukraine would inevitably win this war.

00:21:18.000 Now, victory was never, as it never is, defined precisely.

00:21:22.000 Nothing is ever defined precisely, which is always to tell that there's deception at the heart of the claim.

00:21:26.000 But Ukraine's on the verge of winning.

00:21:29.000 Well, I don't know.

00:21:29.000 I mean, I'm hardly a tactician or a military expert.

00:21:32.000 For the fifth time, I'm not an expert on Russia or Ukraine.

00:21:35.000 I just look at Wikipedia, Russia has a hundred million more people than Ukraine, a hundred million.

00:21:42.000 It has much deeper industrial capacity, war material capacity than all of NATO combined.

00:21:50.000 For example, Russia is turning out artillery shells, which are significant in a ground war, at a ratio of seven to one compared to all NATO countries combined.

00:22:02.000 That's all of Europe. 0.84

00:22:04.000 Russia is producing seven times the artillery shells as all of Europe combined?

00:22:10.000 What?

00:22:11.000 That's an amazing fact, and it turns out to be a really significant fact, in fact, the significant fact.

00:22:16.000 But if you ask your average person in this country, even a fairly well-informed person of good faith who's just trying to understand what's going on, who's gonna win this war?

00:22:24.000 Well, Ukraine's gonna win. 1.00

00:22:25.000 They're on the right side.

00:22:27.000 And they think that because our media, who really just do serve the interest of the US government, period, they are state media in that sense.

00:22:34.000 Have told him that for over two years.

00:22:36.000 And I was in Hungary last summer talking to the prime minister, Viktor Orban, who's a, you know, whatever you think of him, he's a very smart guy, very smart guy, like smart on a scale that we're not used to in our leaders.

00:22:48.000 And I said to him off camera, so is Ukraine gonna win?

00:22:51.000 And he looked at me like I was deranged or I was congenitally deficient.

00:22:57.000 Are they gonna win?

00:22:58.000 No, of course they can't win.

00:22:59.000 It's tiny compared to Russia.

00:23:02.000 Russia has a wartime economy.

00:23:04.000 Ukraine doesn't really have an economy.

00:23:06.000 No, look at the populations. 1.00

00:23:07.000 He was like, looked at me like I was stupid. 0.94

00:23:09.000 And I said to him, you know, I think most Americans believe that because NBC News and CNN and all the news channels, all of them tell them that because it's framed exclusively in moral terms and it's Churchill versus Hitler. 0.98

00:23:20.000 And of course, Churchill's going to prevail in the end.

00:23:22.000 And it's just so dishonest that it doesn't even matter what I want to happen or what I think ought to happen.

00:23:28.000 That's a distortion of what is happening.

00:23:31.000 And if I have any job at all, which I sort of don't actually at this point, but if I do have a job, it's to just try to be honest.

00:23:36.000 And that's a lie.

00:23:38.000 There is a more nuanced discussion about what winning might look like.

00:23:41.000 You're right.

00:23:42.000 A nuanced discussion is not being had, but it is possible for Ukraine to quote unquote win with the help of the United States.

00:23:49.000 I guess that conversation needs to begin by defining terms.

00:23:53.000 And the key term is win.

00:23:55.000 What does that mean?

00:23:56.000 Peace, a ceasefire, who owns which land?

00:24:00.000 Yes.

00:24:01.000 Coming to the table,

00:24:03.000 With, as you call, the parent, the United States.

00:24:06.000 Yes.

00:24:07.000 Putting leverage on the negotiation to make sure there's a fairness.

00:24:11.000 Amen.

00:24:12.000 Well, of course, as a, and I should just restate this, I am not emotionally involved in this.

00:24:20.000 I'm American in every sense, and my only interest is in America.

00:24:24.000 I'm not leaving, ever.

00:24:26.000 And so, I'm looking at this purely from our perspective.

00:24:29.000 What's good for us?

00:24:31.000 But also as a human being, as a Christian, I mean, I hate war, and anybody who doesn't hate war shouldn't have power, in my opinion.

00:24:38.000 So I agree with that definition vehemently.

00:24:43.000 A victory is like not killing an entire generation of your population.

00:24:50.000 It's not being completely destroyed.

00:24:52.000 We're good.

00:25:11.000 To say, no, you cannot come to any terms with Russia.

00:25:16.000 And the result of that has not been a Ukrainian victory.

00:25:18.000 It's just been more dead Ukrainians and a lot of profit for the West. 1.00

00:25:21.000 It's a moral crime, in my opinion.

00:25:25.000 And I tried to ask Boris Johnson about it, because why wouldn't I, after he denounced me as a tool of the Kremlin or something?

00:25:31.000 And he demanded a million dollars to talk to me.

00:25:36.000 And this just happened last week.

00:25:37.000 And by the way, in writing, too, I'm not making this up.

00:25:40.000 I'm not making this up.

00:25:41.000 Just for the record, you demanded a million dollars from me to talk to me today.

00:25:44.000 I did!

00:25:45.000 And you paid!

00:25:46.000 No, I'm, of course, kidding.

00:25:49.000 And I said to his guy, I said, I just interviewed Putin, who is widely recognized as a bad guy, and he did it for free.

00:25:57.000 He didn't demand a million dollars.

00:25:58.000 He wasn't in this for profit.

00:25:59.000 Like, are you telling me that Boris Johnson is sleazier than Vladimir Putin?

00:26:02.000 And of course, that is the message.

00:26:04.000 And so I guess these are really, it's not just about Boris Johnson being a sad, you know, rapacious fraud, which he is obviously, but it's about like the future of the West.

00:26:17.000 And the future of Ukraine, this country that purportedly we care so much about, all these people are dying and like, what is the end game?

00:26:23.000 It's also deranged that I didn't imagine and don't imagine that I could like add anything very meaningful to the conversation because I'm not a genius, okay?

00:26:33.000 But I felt like I could at the very least puncture some of the lies and that's an inherent good.

00:26:40.000 Vladimir Putin, after the interview, said that he wasn't fully satisfied because you weren't aggressive enough.

00:26:46.000 You didn't ask sharp enough questions.

00:26:49.000 First of all, what do you think about him saying that?

00:26:51.000 I don't even understand it.

00:26:53.000 Is that a real laugh?

00:26:55.000 Questions.

00:26:57.000 You weren't aggressive enough.

00:26:58.000 You didn't... Do you think that's a real laugh?

00:27:01.000 Do you think he's actually tickled?

00:27:02.000 Or do you think that's... I can't ever tell if it's a put-on laugh, if that's fake, or if that's real.

00:27:08.000 Like, is that a...

00:27:10.000 Like a voluntary, involuntary reaction or... What do you guys think?

00:27:15.000 You think it's real or fake?

00:27:19.000 Ask.

00:27:19.000 Sharpen off questions.

00:27:24.000 Satisfied because you weren't aggressive enough.

00:27:26.000 You didn't ask.

00:27:28.000 Sharpen off questions.

00:27:29.000 First of all, what do you think about him saying that?

00:27:32.000 I don't even understand it.

00:27:34.000 The way that he collects himself so quickly makes me think it's fake.

00:27:38.000 The way that he... Because if you're genuinely tickled by something where you're laughing out loud, you don't just go like...

00:27:46.000 I don't know.

00:27:47.000 It's hard to tell, though.

00:27:48.000 We'll have to, we'll be on the lookout for the next one.

00:27:50.000 I guess it, it does seem like the one Putin statement that Western media take at face value.

00:27:56.000 Everything else Putin says is a lie, except his criticism of me, which is true. 0.94

00:27:59.000 But, I mean, I have no idea what he meant by that.

00:28:02.000 I can only tell you what my goal was, as I've suggested, was not to make it about me.

00:28:08.000 I watched, you know, he hasn't done any interviews of any kind for years.

00:28:13.000 But the last interview he did with an English-speaking reporter, Western media reporter, was like many of the other interviews he'd done with Western media reporters.

00:28:22.000 Mike Wallace's son did an interview with him that was of the same variety, and it was all about him.

00:28:28.000 You know, I'm a good person, you're a bad person.

00:28:31.000 And I just feel like that's the most tiresome, fruitless kind of interview.

00:28:35.000 It's not about me.

00:28:36.000 I don't think I'm an especially good person.

00:28:38.000 I've definitely never claimed to be.

00:28:40.000 But people can make their own judgments.

00:28:41.000 And again, the only judgments that I care about are my wife and children and God.

00:28:44.000 So I'm just not interested in proving I'm a good person.

00:28:48.000 And I just want to hear from Him.

00:28:50.000 And I had a lot of – I mean, you should see – I almost never write questions down, but I did in this case because I had months – well, I had three years to think about it as I was trying to book the interview.

00:29:00.000 Which I did myself.

00:29:02.000 But it was all about internal Russian politics and Navalny, and I had a lot of, I thought, really good questions.

00:29:11.000 And then at the last second, and you make these decisions, as you know, since you interview people a lot, often you make them on the fly.

00:29:17.000 And I thought, no, I want to talk about the things that haven't been talked about and that I think matter in a world historic sense.

00:29:24.000 And the number one among those, of course, is the war and what it means for the world.

00:29:29.000 And so I stuck to that.

00:29:31.000 I mean, I could answer.

00:29:32.000 I did ask about Gershkovich, who I felt sorry for, and I wanted Putin to release him to me, and I was offended that he didn't.

00:29:40.000 I thought his rationale was absurd.

00:29:41.000 Well, we want to trade him for someone.

00:29:43.000 I said, well, doesn't that make him a hostage?

00:29:45.000 He's a spy! 0.80

00:29:46.000 He's a spy!

00:29:48.000 That's where that whole, that's where this aw shucks routine falls apart.

00:29:54.000 Because that's just a total lie.

00:29:56.000 Like, Tucker's dad was in the CIA.

00:29:58.000 He knows how this stuff works.

00:30:00.000 Tucker's been a journalist for 25 years.

00:30:04.000 To say he was surprised that Putin wouldn't release a spy to a journalist from America?

00:30:14.000 Oh, I know.

00:30:15.000 I was insulted.

00:30:16.000 Why wouldn't he do that?

00:30:17.000 There's no reason to do that.

00:30:19.000 So what was that guy?

00:30:20.000 I don't even know the guy's name.

00:30:21.000 I know he's from the Wall Street Journal.

00:30:33.000 So this is the guy, it's Evan Gershkovich.

00:30:36.000 Evan Gershkovich is an American journalist and reporter, Wall Street Journal, covering Russia.

00:30:41.000 He was detained by Russia's Federal Security Service on charges of espionage, marking the first time a journalist working for an American outlet had been arrested on charges of spying since the Cold War.

00:30:56.000 So let's see.

00:30:59.000 He worked for New York Times, Moscow Times, French press agency, Wall Street Journal.

00:31:05.000 He lived in Russia for six years prior to his arrest.

00:31:11.000 He was working in Yekaterinburg when arrested covering the Russian mercenary military group Wagner, Wagner Group.

00:31:19.000 On March 29th, the counterintelligence department detained him.

00:31:40.000 Does it give any details about why he was arrested?

00:31:44.000 Let's look at this one, CNBC.

00:31:47.000 Bruh.

00:31:48.000 Ad blocker.

00:31:51.000 How do I get rid of my ad blocker?

00:31:54.000 Bruh, dude.

00:31:57.000 I just can't.

00:31:59.000 I just can't, honestly.

00:32:00.000 I'm just over it.

00:32:04.000 Everybody on the stream tells me get an ad blocker get an ad blocker.

00:32:08.000 I do it makes half the internet not functional Okay Russian President Putin said an agreement can be reached over the release of detained Wall Street journalist Did not outright solicit a swap but indirectly compared the case of Gershkov itch to let Vadim Krasnikov

00:32:40.000 Well, I don't know the details of Gershkovich, but... To pretend like that's something that's totally off-base... You know, well, there was no reason for him not to release this!

00:32:50.000 You're in the middle of a war!

00:32:52.000 The United States is engaged in a war with Russia right now, in case you've been... That's what this whole thing is about!

00:32:59.000 The United States is supplying Ukraine with intelligence, officers, planning, missiles, anti-aircraft, you name it,

00:33:09.000 To disable the Russian military.

00:33:11.000 They brag about it. 0.96

00:33:12.000 Lindsey Graham goes out and says, we're killing Russians. 1.00

00:33:15.000 Like, that's what we're paying to kill Russians. 1.00

00:33:18.000 We're paying to destroy their equipment. 0.93

00:33:21.000 And Tucker's like, yeah, I don't know why he didn't release an American prisoner to me for nothing.

00:33:30.000 That's when you know this aw shucks thing isn't real because he knows that to pretend like he doesn't is just a deception and that's that to me tells me that it's a put on that the whole thing's a put on when he says

00:33:45.000 Well, I'm just asking questions.

00:33:47.000 I got my family.

00:33:48.000 I love God.

00:33:49.000 I just want to learn more.

00:33:50.000 I just want to see the world.

00:33:52.000 I don't know why Putin wouldn't release a spy to my custody for nothing.

00:33:56.000 He wants a prisoner swap?

00:33:58.000 So what, is he a hostage?

00:33:59.000 I've never heard of such a thing like this before.

00:34:01.000 It's like, yeah you have.

00:34:03.000 You've been a journalist for 25 years.

00:34:05.000 Your dad was in the CIA.

00:34:07.000 Your dad fought the Cold War in the CIA propaganda department.

00:34:13.000 You don't understand how that works?

00:34:14.000 Of course you understand how that works.

00:34:19.000 You know, which of course it does.

00:34:21.000 But other than that, I really wanted to keep it to the things that I think matter most.

00:34:25.000 You know, people can judge whether I did a good job or not, but that was my decision.

00:34:30.000 In the moment, what was your gut?

00:34:32.000 Did you want to ask some tough questions as follow-ups on certain topics?

00:34:37.000 I don't know what it would mean to ask a tough question.

00:34:40.000 Clarifying questions, I suppose they would... I guess.

00:34:43.000 I just wanted him to talk.

00:34:44.000 You know, I just wanted to hear his perspective.

00:34:47.000 Again, 0.99

00:34:48.000 I've probably asked more asshole questions than like any living American. 1.00

00:34:53.000 As has been noted correctly, I'm a dick by my nature. 0.99

00:34:58.000 I just feel at this stage in my life, I didn't need to prove that I could be like, Vladimir Putin, answer the question! 0.97

00:35:05.000 Sure, for sure.

00:35:10.000 34 instead of 54, I definitely would have done that because I would have thought this is really about me and I need to prove myself.

00:35:15.000 No, there's a war going on that is wrecking the U.S.

00:35:20.000 economy in a way and at a scale people do not understand.

00:35:23.000 The U.S.

00:35:23.000 dollar is going away.

00:35:25.000 That was, of course, inevitable ultimately because everything dies, including currencies.

00:35:31.000 That death, that process of death has been accelerated exponentially by the behavior of the Biden administration and the U.S.

00:35:37.000 Congress, particularly the sanctions, and people don't understand what the ramifications of that are.

00:35:41.000 The ramifications are poverty in the United States, okay?

00:35:45.000 So I just wanted to get to that because I'm coming at this from not a global perspective, I'm coming at it from an American perspective.

00:35:54.000 So you mentioned Navalny.

00:35:55.000 Mm-hmm.

00:35:57.000 After you left, Navalny died in prison.

00:36:00.000 Yes.

00:36:01.000 What are your thoughts on, just at a high level first, about his death?

00:36:05.000 Well, it's awful.

00:36:07.000 I mean, imagine dying in prison.

00:36:09.000 You know, I've thought about it a lot.

00:36:11.000 I've known a lot of people in prison, a lot, including some very good friends of mine.

00:36:14.000 Aw, shucks.

00:36:15.000 That's awful.

00:36:17.000 Imagine dying in jail.

00:36:19.000 So I felt instantly sad about it.

00:36:21.000 You know, Tucker's pretty likable, but some of some of this stuff, it's like, oh, brother, I don't hate him.

00:36:28.000 And I'm I think the jury's out on whether or not he's some kind of spy or some kind of intelligence.

00:36:36.000 But when he does that, it just doesn't pass the spell test when he sometimes it's a little bit too much to believe, you know, terrible.

00:36:47.000 Like, come on, man.

00:36:48.000 From a geopolitical perspective, I don't know any more than that. 0.99

00:36:51.000 And I laugh at and sort of resent but mostly find amusing the claims by American politicians who really are the dumbest politicians in the world, actually. 0.98

00:37:02.000 You know, this happened and here's what it means. 0.96

00:37:05.000 And it's like, actually, as a factual matter, we don't know what happened.

00:37:08.000 We don't know what happened.

00:37:09.000 We have no freaking idea what happened.

00:37:11.000 We can say, and I did say, and I will say again, I don't think you should put opposition figures in prison.

00:37:17.000 I really don't.

00:37:18.000 I don't.

00:37:19.000 Period.

00:37:20.000 It happens a lot around the world, happens in this country, as you know, and I'm against all of it.

00:37:25.000 But do we know how we died?

00:37:27.000 Short answer, no, we don't.

00:37:29.000 Now, if I had to guess, I would say killing Navalny during the Munich Security Conference in the middle of a debate over $60 billion in Ukraine funding, 1.00

00:37:41.000 Maybe the Russians are dumb. 0.99

00:37:43.000 I didn't get that vibe at all. 1.00

00:37:45.000 You know, I just don't I don't see it.

00:37:46.000 But maybe, you know, maybe they killed him.

00:37:48.000 I mean, they certainly put him in prison, which I'm against.

00:37:52.000 But here's what I do know is that we don't know.

00:37:54.000 And so when Chuck Schumer stands up and

00:37:58.000 Joe Biden reads some card in front of him with lines about Navalny.

00:38:01.000 It's like, I'm allowed to laugh at that because it's absurd.

00:38:04.000 You don't know.

00:38:05.000 There's a lot of interesting ideas about if he was killed, who killed him.

00:38:09.000 Because it could be Putin.

00:38:12.000 It could be somebody in Russia who is not Putin.

00:38:15.000 It could be Ukrainians because it would benefit the war. 0.62

00:38:18.000 They killed Dugin's daughter in Moscow.

00:38:21.000 Yeah, it's possible.

00:38:22.000 And it could be, I mean, the United States could also be involved.

00:38:26.000 I don't think we kill people in other countries to affect election outcomes.

00:38:30.000 Oh, wait.

00:38:30.000 No, we do it a lot and have for 80 years and it's shameful.

00:38:34.000 I can say that as an American because it's my money in my name.

00:38:38.000 Um, yeah, I'm really offended by that.

00:38:40.000 And I never thought that was true.

00:38:42.000 And I spent, again, I'm much older than you.

00:38:44.000 And so I spent my, my, my worldview was defined by the cold war.

00:38:49.000 And very much in the house I lived in, in Georgetown in Washington DC, you know, that's what we talked about.

00:38:53.000 And yeah, and the left at the time, you know, I don't know, the wacko MIT professor who I never had any respect for, who I know you've interviewed, etc.

00:39:04.000 Like the hard left was always saying, well, the United States government is interfering in other elections.

00:39:09.000 And I just dismissed that completely out of hand.

00:39:12.000 You didn't learn that until you were middle-aged?

00:39:14.000 When precisely did he learn that the United States did that?

00:39:29.000 See, that's another thing where, again, you have to understand the household that Tucker Carlson grew up in.

00:39:38.000 As he said earlier, he said it in this interview, that his father was always talking about the Cold War because his father worked for the CIA.

00:39:46.000 He was appointed by Ronald Reagan to work in the CIA's propaganda department.

00:39:52.000 Iran Voice of America, which is a non-military U.S.

00:39:56.000 propaganda outlet, international, especially during the Cold War, and has worked in foreign governments, at the Hungarian embassy, doing a variety of different things.

00:40:09.000 And Tucker Carlson has been a journalist for 20-30 years.

00:40:14.000 He was in Nicaragua with the Contras in the 1980s.

00:40:18.000 So, let me just replay that.

00:40:20.000 When exactly did he learn that the United States interferes in other countries' elections?

00:40:25.000 Because if he said that he learned that in middle age, that is just not true.

00:40:28.000 That's obviously not true.

00:40:29.000 I don't know the wacko MIT professor who I never had any respect for, who I know you've interviewed.

00:40:36.000 Etc.

00:40:36.000 Like the hard left was always saying, oh, the United States government is interfering in other elections.

00:40:41.000 And I just dismissed that completely out of hand as stupid and actually a slander against my country. 0.98

00:40:47.000 But it turned out to all be true or substantially true anyway. 0.98

00:40:51.000 And that's been a real shock for me in middle age to to understand that.

00:40:54.000 But anyway, so he learned.

00:40:56.000 Yeah, come on now. 0.88

00:40:58.000 So he learned in middle age again.

00:41:02.000 We go to his dad, Dick Carlson.

00:41:06.000 And Tucker was adopted by this guy, by the way.

00:41:13.000 Let's see.

00:41:14.000 In the summer of 1986, President Reagan announced his intention to nominate Carlson as Associate Director of U.S.

00:41:21.000 Information Agency.

00:41:24.000 Under the CIA.

00:41:46.000 It broadcasts 24 hours a day in nearly 50 languages to 130 million people around the world.

00:41:52.000 He was the longest-serving VOA director in its 50-year history.

00:41:57.000 In June 1991, he left Voice of America, became ambassador to Seychelles.

00:42:04.000 I don't know how to pronounce that country.

00:42:06.000 I know it's off the coast of East Africa.

00:42:09.000 In March 1992, became CEO of CPB, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people, which I don't know too much about this.

00:42:22.000 We could look into that.

00:42:27.000 Publicly funded non-profit.

00:42:29.000 Oh, so it's an NGO.

00:42:30.000 Nice.

00:42:32.000 Corporation's mission is to ensure universal access to non-commercial, high-quality content, telecom services.

00:42:41.000 Efforts to defund.

00:42:49.000 Political concerns.

00:42:51.000 In 2004 and 2005, people from PBS and NPR complained CPB was starting to push a conservative agenda.

00:43:00.000 Okay.

00:43:04.000 And he was running at 1992, King World Public, Foreign Relations, testified dozens of times before congressional committees including Senate Foreign Relations, House Foreign Relations.

00:43:17.000 He has been involved in negotiations.

00:43:20.000 On behalf of the US government, with many foreign governments including China, Korea, the Soviet Union, Germany, Costa Rica, Belize, Liberia, Botswana, Lesotho, South Africa, Morocco, and Israel,

00:43:38.000 He has negotiated on behalf of the government.

00:43:41.000 That means he's a spy!

00:43:42.000 That means he's a spy!

00:43:44.000 If he's not an ambassador, if he's not in the State Department, but he's negotiating on behalf of the government in Asia, Central America, Europe, that means he's a spy!

00:44:00.000 In 1990, he jointly addressed the Knesset with Malcolm Forbes Jr.

00:44:04.000 Three years later, addressed the House of Commons with Richard Branson.

00:44:07.000 He was an international observer at the first democratic elections in South Africa.

00:44:12.000 He's just like Forrest Gump.

00:44:14.000 He's everywhere.

00:44:15.000 He's all over the place.

00:44:17.000 In 1997, he was an observer at the parliamentary elections in Albania during the Yugoslav Wars.

00:44:25.000 In 2003, he became the vice chairman of the Foundation for Defensive Democracies, so another state department NGO, was there for eight years.

00:44:35.000 From 92 to 97, president of Intermedia, which conducts opinion surveys for government agencies in 75 countries, he is currently its chairman.

00:44:47.000 He was an advisor of the Institute for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence.

00:44:53.000 He is also a longtime member of the European and Asian Broadcasting Union, Director of Policy Impact, lobbied the U.S.

00:44:59.000 government on behalf of Viktor Orban.

00:45:04.000 Sorry, didn't we just like 10 minutes ago, didn't we just hear that Tucker said that Viktor Orban is on a level of intelligence surpassing all of our politicians?

00:45:15.000 And his dad lobbied the US government on behalf of Viktor Orban and as recently as 2021 worked for the Hungarian government.

00:45:25.000 Viktor Orban was a pig farmer, just so you understand. 0.71

00:45:38.000 So that's crazy. 0.78

00:45:45.000 That's so crazy that he was running the propaganda outlet during the Cold War.

00:45:52.000 He was at the Democratic elections in South Africa when the Apartheid regime was overthrown.

00:45:57.000 He was in Albania in 1997 in the heat of the wars with Kosovo and Serbia and all that.

00:46:09.000 That's wild.

00:46:11.000 But Tucker Carlson only learned recently, even though his dad is a bona fide spy, his dad has been a bona fide US spy confirmed for 30 years, 30-40 years, and Tucker just learned recently, huh, that, you know, maybe the government is involved.

00:46:34.000 This is a little interesting.

00:46:35.000 He sought an appointment to the San Diego County Board of Supervisors

00:46:40.000 Following year, he decided to run for mayor of San Diego in a contentious campaign against Roger Hedgecock, who was under indictment for perjury and conspiracy.

00:46:53.000 Carlson's campaign came under scrutiny for its close ties to Great American Savings, which had ties to the Reagan White House.

00:47:01.000 30 employees donated over $4,000 each to his campaign, while only one donated to Hedgcock.

00:47:07.000 When pressed on the connection and on other campaign issues, he began to skip candidate forums.

00:47:12.000 A member of the press deemed it difficult to get a hold of him.

00:47:20.000 After spending $1.2 million on the campaign, outspending Hedgcock by a 2-to-1 margin, he lost $42 to $58.

00:47:35.000 Hmm.

00:47:52.000 I'd like to read more into this.

00:47:53.000 That's very interesting.

00:47:57.000 That is very interesting.

00:48:00.000 Great American First Savings.

00:48:04.000 I wonder what that is.

00:48:13.000 Here we go.

00:48:14.000 Great American Bank.

00:48:15.000 American Savings and Loan Association in San Diego.

00:48:19.000 That's a little sus. 0.98

00:48:22.000 Let's see.

00:48:23.000 What are the ties to the White House?

00:48:30.000 Hmm.

00:48:40.000 Very interesting.

00:48:43.000 Founded by Moses Luce in 1885.

00:48:53.000 But it says it was founded in, oh no, okay, 1885.

00:48:59.000 Until the 80s it operated as San Diego Federal Savings and Loan and then it became Great American First in the 80s?

00:49:11.000 We got to do some further investigation on this because this is pretty sus.

00:49:16.000 This is pretty suspicious, this whole deal.

00:49:20.000 What did he do before the campaign?

00:49:21.000 He was a banker.

00:49:22.000 Okay, I probably should have started there.

00:49:24.000 Let's go all the way back.

00:49:26.000 Hired by KBC-TV in LA, working with Peter Noyes.

00:49:30.000 He won several awards.

00:49:35.000 Invited to join as an anchorman and investigative reporter. 0.94

00:49:38.000 Carlson walked away from the job after 18 months, tiring of news, calling it a kid's game that was insipid, sophomoric, superficial, laced with arrogance and hypocrisy. 0.87

00:49:47.000 Sounds a lot like Tucker. 0.96

00:49:49.000 Doesn't Tucker say the same thing? 0.99

00:49:51.000 That the news media is arrogant and hypocritical and sophomoric? 0.98

00:49:56.000 He admitted to being part of that hypocrisy by citing a piece he did that outed a local tennis player as a transgender woman. 0.95

00:50:04.000 As a banker, he joined Great American First Savings, headed by Gordon Luce, former cabinet member, close friend of Ronald Reagan.

00:50:12.000 Okay, so that's who this guy is.

00:50:24.000 Mm-hmm.

00:50:27.000 He was appointed English lecturer in Rangoon.

00:50:34.000 That's very sus.

00:50:35.000 Whenever somebody is teaching English in Indochina, you know they're a fad. 1.00

00:50:40.000 That's just a little tip I picked up over the years.

00:50:44.000 If somebody's out there teaching English to Vietnamese or Chinese or Burmese, they're a fad. 1.00

00:50:52.000 Is this the same guy though?

00:50:53.000 Maybe it's a different guy.

00:50:54.000 Doesn't mention anything about savings and loan here, so maybe that's a different guy.

00:51:03.000 Dude.

00:51:07.000 This thing again.

00:51:08.000 Hmm, hmm, hmm.

00:51:22.000 Oh, his grandfather founded it in 1885.

00:51:24.000 This guy was born in, that's why I was confused, because the other one had a real old-time picture, and it said the guy founded it in 1885.

00:51:34.000 I'm like, that can't be the same guy.

00:51:38.000 Served in the Army, fought in World War II, went to Stanford.

00:51:41.000 Uh-oh.

00:51:45.000 He met Reagan working on Barry Goldwater's campaign in 64.

00:51:49.000 During Reagan's run for governor in 66, he served as San Diego's County Campaign Chairman.

00:51:55.000 As Reagan's Secretary of Business and Transportation, oversaw a number of agencies including SNL, real estate insurance,

00:52:10.000 Hmm.

00:52:12.000 Hmm, hmm, hmm.

00:52:20.000 Well, I'll look into this another time.

00:52:22.000 I admittedly haven't done a total deep dive on Dick Carlson yet, but suffice to say, without getting carried away, very, very sus that Tucker, his dad, so as you can see, his dad was a spy, and Tucker says, well, I didn't learn until I was middle-aged that the US government interferes in other countries' affairs.

00:52:41.000 It's like, your dad's been a spy since you were born.

00:52:46.000 As to Navalny, look, I don't know.

00:52:50.000 But we should always proceed on the basis of what we do know, which is to say on the basis of truth, knowable truth.

00:52:58.000 And if you have an entire policymaking apparatus that is making the biggest decisions on the face of the planet on the basis of things that are bullshit or lies You're gonna get bad outcomes every time Every time and that's that's why we are where we are Does it bother you that basically the most famous opposition figure in Russia is sitting in prison?

00:53:21.000 Well, of course it does 0.51

00:53:22.000 Of course it bothers me.

00:53:23.000 I mean, it bothered me when I got there.

00:53:25.000 It bothers me now.

00:53:26.000 I was sad when he died.

00:53:27.000 Yeah, I mean, that's one of the measures of... It's one of the basic measures of political freedom.

00:53:33.000 Are you imprisoning people who oppose you?

00:53:37.000 You know, are you imprisoning people who pose a physical risk to you?

00:53:40.000 I mean, there's some subjective

00:53:43.000 Decision-making involved in these things.

00:53:47.000 However, big picture, yeah.

00:53:48.000 Do you have opposition leaders in jail?

00:53:51.000 It's not a free, it's not a politically free society, and Russia isn't, obviously.

00:53:58.000 And as I said, a friend of mine from childhood, an American actually, he was a wonderful person, lives in Russia with his Russian, in Moscow with his Russian wife, and I had dinner with him.

00:54:06.000 He's a very balanced guy, totally non-political person.

00:54:11.000 And speaks Russian and loves his many Russian children and loves the culture, and there's a lot to love.

00:54:16.000 The culture that produced Tolstoy, you know, it's not a gas station with nuclear weapons, sorry. 0.98

00:54:21.000 Only a moron would say that. 0.99

00:54:22.000 It's a very deep culture. 1.00

00:54:23.000 I don't fully understand it, of course, but I admire it.

00:54:26.000 Who wouldn't?

00:54:27.000 But I asked him, like, what's it like living here?

00:54:29.000 And he goes, you know, it's great.

00:54:30.000 Moscow is a great city, indisputably.

00:54:32.000 He said, you don't want to get involved in Russian politics.

00:54:34.000 And I said, what?

00:54:37.000 He said, well, you could get hurt, you could wind up like Navalny if you did, but also it's just too complicated.

00:54:43.000 You know, the Russian mind is not exactly the same.

00:54:46.000 It's a Western, it's a European city, but it's not quite European.

00:54:50.000 And the way they think is very, very complex, very complex.

00:54:55.000 It's too complicated, just don't get involved.

00:54:57.000 And I would just say two things.

00:55:03.000 I'm not sure.

00:55:03.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:55:05.000 But my strong sense is that Navalny's death, whoever did it, probably didn't have a lot to do with the coming election in Russia.

00:55:13.000 My sense from talking to Putin and the people around him is they're not really focused on that.

00:55:16.000 I mean, in fact, I asked one of his top advisors, when's the election?

00:55:20.000 And she looked at me completely confused.

00:55:21.000 She didn't know the date of the election.

00:55:23.000 She's like, March?

00:55:26.000 That's awesome.

00:55:27.000 And I asked a bunch of other people just in Moscow, who's Putin running against?

00:55:31.000 Aspirational.

00:55:33.000 So it's not a real election, right?

00:55:36.000 In the sense that we would recognize at all.

00:55:40.000 Second, I was really struck by so many things in Moscow and really bothered by, deeply bothered by a lot of things that I saw there.

00:55:47.000 Um, but one thing I noticed was the total absence of... I wish it was like that with Trump.

00:55:53.000 I wish that Donald Trump were president and you would go to the White House and say, hey, when's the election?

00:55:58.000 People would be like, uh, November?

00:56:00.000 Who's running against him?

00:56:02.000 We don't know.

00:56:03.000 That's aspirational.

00:56:05.000 Imagine if Trump were president for 25 years and that was the response.

00:56:10.000 Cult of personality propaganda, which I expected to see and have seen around the world.

00:56:14.000 Jordan, for example.

00:56:15.000 I don't know if you've been to Jordan, but go to Jordan.

00:56:18.000 In every building, there are pictures of the king and his extended family, and that's a sign of political insecurity.

00:56:23.000 You know, you don't create a cult of personality unless you're personally insecure, and also unless you're worried about losing your grip on power.

00:56:30.000 None of that.

00:56:31.000 It's interesting, and I expected to see a lot of it, you know, like statues of Putin.

00:56:35.000 No, there are no statues of anybody other than like

00:56:38.000 Christian saints.

00:56:40.000 So that was like, I'm not quite sure.

00:56:41.000 I'm just reporting what I saw.

00:56:44.000 So yes, it's not a, in a political sense, it's not a free country.

00:56:48.000 It's not a democracy in the way that we would understand it, or I don't want to live there.

00:56:54.000 Okay?

00:56:54.000 Because I like to say what I think.

00:56:55.000 In fact, I make my living doing it.

00:56:59.000 But it's not Stalinist in a recognizable way.

00:57:03.000 And anyone who says it is should go there and tell me how.

00:57:06.000 I mean, this question about the freedom of the press is underlying the very fact of the interview you're having with him.

00:57:14.000 Right.

00:57:14.000 So you might not need to ask the Navalny question, but did you feel like, are there things I shouldn't say?

00:57:22.000 I mean, how honest do you want me to be?

00:57:23.000 I mean it when I say I felt not one twinge of concern for the eight days that I was there.

00:57:31.000 Maybe I just didn't.

00:57:32.000 And I feel like I've got a pretty strong gut sense of things.

00:57:36.000 I rely on it.

00:57:37.000 I make all my decisions based on how I feel, my instincts, and I didn't feel it at all.

00:57:43.000 Um, my lawyers before I left, and these are people who work for a big law firm, this is not Bob's law firm, this is one of the biggest law firms in the world, said, you're going to get arrested if you do this by the U.S.

00:57:52.000 government on sanctions violations.

00:57:55.000 And I said, well, you know, I don't, I don't recognize the legitimacy of that actually, because I'm American and I've lived here my whole life.

00:58:01.000 And that's so outrageous that I'm happy to face that

00:58:05.000 But that was...

00:58:21.000 Let me put it this way, I don't know how much you've dealt with lawyers, but it costs many thousands of dollars to get a conclusion like that.

00:58:28.000 They sent a whole bunch of their summer associates or whatever.

00:58:31.000 They put a lot of people on this question, checked a lot of precedent, and I think, and they sent me a 10-page memo on it, and their sincere conclusion was, do not do this.

00:58:42.000 And of course it made me mad, so I was lecturing on the phone and I had another call with the head lawyer and he said, look, a lot will depend on the questions that you ask Putin.

00:58:51.000 If you're seen as too nice to him, you could get arrested when you come back.

00:58:54.000 And I was like, you're describing a fascist country, okay?

00:58:58.000 You're saying that the US government will arrest me if I don't ask the questions they want asked?

00:59:02.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:59:03.000 Well, we just think based on what's happened that that's possible.

00:59:08.000 I'm just telling you what happened.

00:59:10.000 So you were okay being arrested in Moscow and arrested in... I didn't think I was... I didn't think for a second... I mean, maybe... Look, I don't speak Russian.

00:59:18.000 I'd never been there before.

00:59:21.000 Everything about the culture was brand new to me.

00:59:24.000 You know, ignorance does protect you, sort of, when you have no freaking idea what's going on.

00:59:30.000 You're not worried about it.

00:59:31.000 This has happened to me many times.

00:59:33.000 There's a principle there that extends throughout life.

00:59:35.000 So it's completely possible that I was in grave peril and didn't know it, because how would I know it?

00:59:41.000 I'm like a bumbling English speaker from California.

00:59:43.000 But I didn't feel it at all.

00:59:47.000 But the lawyers did. 0.73

00:59:48.000 Yeah, I mean, it scared the crap out of people.

00:59:51.000 And look, you have to pay in cash.

00:59:54.000 They don't take credit cards because of sanctions.

00:59:55.000 And you have to go through all these hoops, just procedural hoops, to go to Russia.

01:00:00.000 Which I was willing to do because I wanted to interview Putin because they told me I couldn't.

01:00:04.000 But then there's another fact, which is that I was being surveilled by the U.S.

01:00:08.000 government, intensely surveilled by the U.S.

01:00:10.000 government.

01:00:11.000 And this came out, they admitted it, the NSA admitted it a couple of years ago that they were up in my Signal account.

01:00:16.000 And then they leaked it to the New York Times.

01:00:17.000 They did that again before I left.

01:00:20.000 And I know that because two New York Times reporters, one of whom I actually like a lot,

01:00:27.000 said, oh, you're going, and called other people, oh, he's going to interview Putin.

01:00:29.000 I hadn't told anybody that, like anybody, like my wife, two producers, that's it.

01:00:35.000 So they got that from the government.

01:00:36.000 Then I'm over there, and of course I want to see Snowden, who I admire.

01:00:41.000 And so we have a mutual friend, so I got his text and come on over, and Snowden does not want publicity at all.

01:00:49.000 And so, but I really wanted to have dinner with him.

01:00:51.000 So we had dinner in my hotel room at the Four Seasons in Moscow.

01:00:56.000 And I said, I tried to convince him, you know, I'd love to do an interview, shoot it on my iPhone.

01:01:01.000 You know, I'd love to take a picture together and put it on the internet because I just want to show support because I think he's been railroaded.

01:01:07.000 He had no interest in living in Russia, no intention of being in Russia.

01:01:12.000 The whole thing is a lie.

01:01:13.000 But anyway, whatever, all this stuff.

01:01:15.000 And he just said, respectfully, I'd rather not anyone know that we met.

01:01:18.000 Great.

01:01:19.000 The only reason I'm telling you this is because, and I didn't tell anybody and I didn't text it to anybody, okay, except him.

01:01:29.000 Semaphore, Semaphore, runs this piece saying,

01:01:35.000 reporting information they got from the US intel agencies leaking against me using my money in my name in a supposedly free country.

01:01:45.000 They run this piece saying I'd met with Snowden, like it was a crime or something.

01:01:49.000 So again, what my interest is in the United States and preserving freedoms here, the ones that I grew up with,

01:01:55.000 And if you have a media establishment that acts as an auxiliary of, or acts as employees of, the national security state, you don't have a free country.

01:02:04.000 And that's where we are.

01:02:05.000 And I'm not guessing, because I spent my entire life in that world.

01:02:09.000 33 years I worked in big news companies.

01:02:11.000 And so I know how it works.

01:02:12.000 I know the people involved in it.

01:02:14.000 I could name them.

01:02:15.000 Ben Smith of Semaphore, among many others.

01:02:18.000 And I find that really objectionable, not just on principle either, in effect, in practice.

01:02:23.000 You don't want to live in that kind of country.

01:02:25.000 And people are like, they externalize all of their anxiety about this, I have noticed.

01:02:29.000 So it's like, Russia's not free! 0.83

01:02:31.000 Yeah, I know.

01:02:33.000 You know, neither is Burkina Faso.

01:02:36.000 Most countries aren't free, actually, but we are.

01:02:38.000 We're the United States, we're different.

01:02:41.000 And that's my concern, preserving that is my concern.

01:02:44.000 And so they get so exercised about what's happening in other parts of the world, places they've never been, know nothing about.

01:02:51.000 It's almost a way of ignoring what's happening in their own country right around them.

01:02:54.000 I find it so strange and sad and weird.

01:02:58.000 So the NSA was tracking you?

01:03:01.000 Do you think CIA was?

01:03:02.000 Is people still tracking you?

01:03:04.000 Look, one of the things I did before I went, just because of the business I'm in, all of us are in, and just because we live here, you know, we all have theories about secure communications channels.

01:03:15.000 Like, Signal is secure, Telegraph isn't, or WhatsApp is owned by Mark Zuckerberg, you can't trust... Okay.

01:03:23.000 So I thought, you know, before I go over here, I was getting all this

01:03:26.000 We're having all these conversations, my producers and I, about this.

01:03:29.000 And I decide, you know, I'm just gonna actually find out what's really going on.

01:03:34.000 So I talked to two people who would know, trust me.

01:03:40.000 And that's all I can say.

01:03:42.000 And I hate to be like, oh, I talked to people who would know, but I can't do it.

01:03:44.000 But I mean it.

01:03:46.000 They would know.

01:03:47.000 And both of them said exactly the same thing, which is, are you joking?

01:03:51.000 Nothing is secure.

01:03:52.000 Everything is monitored all the time.

01:03:54.000 If state actors are involved.

01:03:55.000 I mean, you can keep the, you know, whatever, the Malaysian mafia from reading your texts, probably.

01:04:01.000 You cannot keep the big intel services from reading your texts.

01:04:04.000 It's not possible, any of them, or listening to your calls.

01:04:08.000 So, and that was the firm conclusion of people who've been involved in it, you know, for a long time, decades, both, in both cases.

01:04:15.000 So, I just thought, you know what?

01:04:17.000 I don't care.

01:04:18.000 I don't care.

01:04:18.000 I'm not sending a ton of naked pictures of myself to anybody.

01:04:23.000 Not a ton, just a little.

01:04:26.000 Fifty-four, dude!

01:04:26.000 Probably not too many.

01:04:30.000 So the guys travel with three people I work with who I love, who I've been around the world with for many years, and I know them really, really well.

01:04:39.000 And they all got separate phones, and I'm leaving my other phone back in New York or whatever, and I just decided I don't care, actually.

01:04:49.000 And I resent having no privacy.

01:04:53.000 Um, because privacy is a prerequisite for freedom.

01:04:56.000 Um, but I can't change it.

01:04:58.000 And so I have the same surveilled cell phone and you know, I do switch them out because there it is.

01:05:04.000 Uh, because if you have too much spyware on your phone, this is true.

01:05:10.000 It wrecks the battery and no, I'm serious.

01:05:15.000 It does.

01:05:16.000 And we got, it was, I don't know, five or six years ago, we went to North Korea

01:05:20.000 And my phone started acting crazy.

01:05:24.000 And so I talked to someone on the National Security Council, who actually called me about this, somehow knew that your phone is being surveilled by the South Korean government.

01:05:32.000 I was like, I like the South Korean government.

01:05:34.000 Why would they do that?

01:05:36.000 Because they want more information.

01:05:37.000 They thought I was talking to Trump or whatever.

01:05:40.000 But I could tell because all of a sudden the thing would just drain in like 45 minutes.

01:05:45.000 So that is...

01:05:47.000 That's the downside.

01:05:49.000 So you keep switching phones, getting new phones for the battery life?

01:05:52.000 Yeah, I mean, I try not to do it, you know, I'm kind of... I think that happens to everybody, doesn't it?

01:05:57.000 I mean, I'm not an expert on Apple products, but I'm pretty sure, doesn't your phone battery die anyway?

01:06:04.000 If you have it for a long time?

01:06:06.000 I'm a little bit...

01:06:08.000 skeptical of some of his claims.

01:06:10.000 People are saying they want it in 1.5 times.

01:06:12.000 When they make these claims like, well, they hacked into my Signal account and they knew that the government told the press that I was gonna interview Putin.

01:06:23.000 It's like, yeah, I don't know if I believe all that stuff.

01:06:28.000 I don't know how much I buy all that story.

01:06:32.000 Flinty Yankee type in some ways. 0.99

01:06:33.000 So I don't I don't like to spend a thousand dollars with a freaking Apple corporation too often. 0.72

01:06:36.000 But yeah, I do.

01:06:36.000 I mean you say it lightly, but it's really troublesome that he was a journalist would be tracked.

01:06:40.000 Well, they leaked it to semaphore and they leaked it to the New York Times.

01:06:42.000 But it's I would even put up was nothing I can do.

01:06:44.000 So I have to put up with everything.

01:06:45.000 Okay, but I would probably not be actively angry about being surveilled because I'm just so old and I'm actually do pay my taxes.

01:06:52.000 Sleeping with a makeup artist or whatever, so I don't care that much.

01:06:54.000 The fact that they are leaking against me, that the intel services in the United States are actively engaged in U.S.

01:06:59.000 politics and media, that's so unacceptable.

01:07:02.000 That makes democracy impossible.

01:07:03.000 There's no defense of that.

01:07:04.000 And yet NBC News, Ken Delanian, and the rest will defend it.

01:07:07.000 And it's like, and not just on NBC News, by the way, on the supposedly conservative channels too, they will defend it.

01:07:11.000 And there's no defending that.

01:07:11.000 You can't have democracy if the intel services are tampering in elections and information.

01:07:16.000 Period.

01:07:17.000 So you had no fear.

01:07:18.000 You know, your lawyer said, be careful which questions you asked.

01:07:21.000 You said, I don't have... Well, the lawyer said, no, he said very specifically, if, you know, depending on the questions you ask, Putin...

01:07:27.000 Um, you know, you could be arrested or not.

01:07:29.000 And I said, listen to what you're saying.

01:07:30.000 You're saying the U.S.

01:07:31.000 government has, like, control over my questions and they'll arrest me if I ask the wrong question?

01:07:34.000 Like, how are we better than Putin, if that's true?

01:07:35.000 And by the way, that's just what the lawyer said, but I, I can't overstate, one of the biggest law firms in the United States, smart lawyers we've used for years.

01:07:40.000 So I was, I was really shocked by it.

01:07:42.000 You said leaders kill, leaders lie.

01:07:43.000 Yeah.

01:07:44.000 I don't believe in leaders very much.

01:07:45.000 Like, this whole, like, Zelensky's Jesus and Putin's Satan.

01:07:47.000 It's like, no, they're all leaders of countries, okay?

01:07:49.000 Like, grow up a little bit, you child.

01:07:51.000 Do you, have you ever met a leader?

01:07:52.000 Like, all of the, first of all, anyone who's... I know my way about Hitler. 0.96

01:07:54.000 That's how I, and that's how I feel about Hitler. 0.86

01:07:57.000 It's so funny, you can say that about Putin, but you can't say that about Hitler. 0.89

01:08:01.000 If you say that about Hitler, you are Hitler, and Hitler's evil.

01:08:06.000 Uh, so is Hitler. 0.90

01:08:07.000 It's power is damaged morally, in my opinion.

01:08:09.000 You shouldn't be seeking power.

01:08:10.000 You can't seek power or wealth for its own sake and remain a decent person.

01:08:14.000 That's just true.

01:08:15.000 So there aren't any, like, really virtuous billionaires, and there aren't any really virtuous world leaders.

01:08:18.000 You have grades of virtue.

01:08:20.000 Some are better than others, for sure.

01:08:22.000 But I mean, in other words, Zelensky may be better than Putin.

01:08:25.000 I'm open to that possibility.

01:08:26.000 But to claim that one is evil and the other is virtuous, it's like you're revealing that you're a child.

01:08:31.000 You don't know anything about how the world actually is or what reality is.

01:08:34.000 That's quite a realist perspective.

01:08:36.000 But there is a spectrum.

01:08:37.000 There's a spectrum.

01:08:38.000 Absolutely.

01:08:38.000 I'm not saying they're all the same.

01:08:39.000 They're not.

01:08:39.000 And our task is to figure out where on the spectrum they lie and the leaders.

01:08:46.000 But I actually reject even that formulation.

01:08:49.000 I don't think it's always about the leaders.

01:08:50.000 I mean, of course, the leaders make the difference.

01:08:53.000 A good leader has a healthy country and a bad leader has a decaying country, which is something to think about.

01:08:57.000 But it's about the ideas and the policies and the practical effect of things.

01:09:00.000 So we're very much caught up in the personalities of various leaders, not just our political leaders, but our business leaders, our cultural leaders.

01:09:05.000 Are they good people?

01:09:06.000 Do they have the right thoughts?

01:09:07.000 It's like, no.

01:09:08.000 I ask a much more basic question.

01:09:09.000 What are the fruits of their behavior?

01:09:10.000 And I always make it personal because I think everything is personal.

01:09:12.000 Does his wife respect him?

01:09:14.000 Do his children respect him?

01:09:14.000 How are they doing?

01:09:15.000 Is the country he runs thriving or is it falling apart?

01:09:18.000 If your life expectancy is going down, if your suicide rate is going up, if your standard of living is tanking, you're not a good leader.

01:09:22.000 I don't care what you tell me.

01:09:23.000 I don't care what you claim you represent.

01:09:25.000 I don't care about the ideas or the systems that you say you embody.

01:09:28.000 It's dog-barking to me.

01:09:29.000 How's your life expectancy?

01:09:31.000 How's your suicide rate?

01:09:32.000 What's drug use like?

01:09:33.000 Are people having children?

01:09:34.000 Are people's children more likely to live in a freer, more prosperous society than you did, and their grandparents did?

01:09:38.000 Like, those are the only measures that matter to me.

01:09:39.000 The rest is a lie.

01:09:40.000 But anyway, the point is, we just get so obsessed with, like, the theater around people.

01:09:45.000 Or people.

01:09:46.000 And we miss the bigger things that are happening, and we allow ourselves to be deceived into thinking that what doesn't matter at all matters.

01:09:53.000 That moral victories are all that matter.

01:09:54.000 No, actually, facts on the ground victories matter more than anything.

01:09:56.000 I mean, you certainly see it in this country.

01:09:57.000 Black Lives Matter, for example.

01:09:58.000 How many black people did that help? 0.96

01:10:00.000 BLM doesn't actually help the black people! 1.00

01:10:16.000 Matter. 0.99

01:10:16.000 Black Lives Matter didn't help black people. 0.99

01:10:18.000 And if it did, tell me how.

01:10:19.000 Well, these are important moral victories.

01:10:20.000 I'm over that.

01:10:21.000 That's just another lie.

01:10:22.000 You know, a long litany of lies.

01:10:23.000 So I try to see the rest of the world that way.

01:10:25.000 But more than anything, I try to see world events through the lens of an American, because I am one.

01:10:29.000 And what does this mean for us?

01:10:30.000 And it's not even the war.

01:10:31.000 It's the sanctions that will forever change the United States, our standard of living, the way our government operates.

01:10:37.000 That, more than any single thing in my lifetime, screwed the United States.

01:10:40.000 Levying those sanctions in the way that we did was crazy.

01:10:42.000 And that was that for me, the main takeaway from my eight days in Moscow was not Putin.

01:10:46.000 He's a leader with whatever.

01:10:47.000 None of them are that different, actually, in my pretty extensive experience.

01:10:50.000 No, it was Moscow.

01:10:51.000 That blew my mind.

01:10:53.000 I was not prepared for that at all.

01:10:54.000 And I thought I knew a lot about Moscow.

01:10:55.000 My dad worked there on and off in the 80s and 90s, U.S.

01:10:56.000 government employee, and he was always coming back Moscow.

01:10:58.000 It's a nightmare and all this stuff, no electricity.

01:11:00.000 I got there almost exactly two years after sanctions.

01:11:03.000 Totally cut off from Western financial systems, kicked out of SWIFT, can't use US dollars, no banking, no credit cards.

01:11:07.000 Remember, hang on, hang on, hang on, timeout, timeout, timeout, timeout.

01:11:11.000 So remember when Tucker said that he was offended that Putin wouldn't release the Wall Street Journal reporter to his custody?

01:11:20.000 Why wouldn't he do that?

01:11:21.000 So he's a hostage?

01:11:23.000 So wait a second, so your dad throughout the 80s and 90s was actually in Moscow?

01:11:30.000 As a government employee, government-funded journalist, you don't understand how that works?

01:11:36.000 So a Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Jewish journalist is in Russia reporting in favor of the Ukraine side during Russia's war with Ukraine.

01:11:45.000 He gets detained.

01:11:47.000 Well, what even is that?

01:11:49.000 I've never heard of such a thing.

01:11:50.000 Release him to my custody.

01:11:52.000 I am offended if you don't.

01:11:54.000 But your dad was in the heart of the Soviet Union?

01:11:58.000 In the 80s and 90s, working for the government as a Voice of America director?

01:12:04.000 Yeah.

01:12:05.000 So something there is not true.

01:12:06.000 And that city, just factually, I'm not endorsing the system.

01:12:09.000 I'm not endorsing the whole country.

01:12:10.000 I didn't go to Lake Bakal.

01:12:11.000 You know, I didn't go to Turkmenistan.

01:12:13.000 I just went to Moscow.

01:12:13.000 Largest city in Europe.

01:12:14.000 13 million people.

01:12:15.000 I drove all around it.

01:12:16.000 And that city is way nicer, outwardly anyway, I don't live there, than any city we have.

01:12:20.000 By a lot.

01:12:21.000 And by nicer, let me be specific.

01:12:22.000 That's not true.

01:12:24.000 I talked to a Russia Today journalist in Miami, and she said she hated it.

01:12:27.000 Pacific.

01:12:28.000 No graffiti.

01:12:29.000 No homeless.

01:12:29.000 No people using drugs in the street.

01:12:31.000 Totally tidy.

01:12:31.000 No garbage on the ground.

01:12:33.000 And no forest of steel and concrete soul-destroying buildings.

01:12:36.000 None of the postmodern architecture that oppresses us without even our knowledge.

01:12:40.000 Is that even true?

01:12:41.000 Is that even true?

01:12:42.000 First of all, you know, Chicago's pretty clean.

01:12:45.000 There's not garbage on the streets in Chicago, and Chicago's not even a good city anymore, but it's pretty clean, and there's not a ton of homeless people.

01:12:54.000 Let me pull up Moscow.

01:12:57.000 Moscow has skyscrapers?

01:12:59.000 What are you talking about?

01:13:00.000 They don't have postmodern architecture?

01:13:01.000 That's just made up.

01:13:03.000 This is the Moscow... What are you talking about, dude?

01:13:06.000 What are you talking about?

01:13:08.000 That's not postmodern!

01:13:11.000 None of these soul-destroying glass and concrete skyscrapers!

01:13:15.000 Okay, what am I looking at then?

01:13:18.000 What am I looking at right here?

01:13:25.000 And it's like if he's talking about the old town or whatever that they might have in the city, Washington DC is the same way.

01:13:33.000 Washington DC doesn't have soul-destroying glass skyscrapers.

01:13:37.000 If he means, you know, there's maybe a neighborhood by like the Kremlin or the Red Square where it's not like that, look at DC.

01:13:42.000 DC looks like London.

01:13:44.000 DC looks like London or Paris or Boston.

01:13:48.000 There's a building code they can't build over a certain limit.

01:13:51.000 But if you go to Arlington,

01:13:55.000 Next door, you're going to see the epitome of postmodern skyscrapers architecture.

01:14:05.000 So what are you talking about, dude?

01:14:07.000 What are you talking about? 1.00

01:14:09.000 Crap. 1.00

01:14:09.000 It's a truly beautiful city. 1.00

01:14:11.000 And that's not an endorsement of Putin.

01:14:12.000 And by the way, it didn't make me love Putin.

01:14:14.000 It made me hate my own leaders.

01:14:15.000 Because I grew up in a country that had cities kind of like that.

01:14:17.000 That were nice cities.

01:14:18.000 That were safe.

01:14:19.000 And we don't have that anymore.

01:14:20.000 And how did that happen?

01:14:20.000 Did Putin do that?

01:14:21.000 I don't think Putin did that, actually.

01:14:22.000 I think the people in charge of it, the mayors, the governors, the president, they did that.

01:14:25.000 And they should be held accountable for it.

01:14:26.000 So I think cleanliness and architectural design is not the entirety of the metrics that matter when you measure a city.

01:14:31.000 They're the main metrics that matter.

01:14:32.000 They're the main metrics that matter.

01:14:33.000 The main metrics that matter are cleanliness, safety, and beauty, in my opinion.

01:14:37.000 And one of the big lies that we are told in our world is that, no, something you can't measure that has no actual effect on your life matters most! 0.99

01:14:45.000 Bullshit. 0.98

01:14:46.000 What matters most, to say it again, beauty, safety, cleanliness. 1.00

01:14:50.000 Lots of other things matter, too.

01:14:51.000 A whole bunch of things matter.

01:14:52.000 But if I were to put them in order, it's not some theoretical, well, actually, I don't know if you know that the Duma has no powers.

01:14:56.000 Okay, I get that.

01:14:58.000 Freedom of speech matters enormously to me.

01:14:59.000 They have less freedom of speech in Russia than we do in the United States.

01:15:02.000 We are superior to them in that way.

01:15:03.000 But you can't tell me that living in a city where, you know, your six year old daughter can walk to the bus stop and ride on a clean bus or ride in a beautiful subway car that's on time and not get assaulted.

01:15:11.000 That doesn't matter.

01:15:11.000 No, that matters almost more than anything, actually.

01:15:13.000 And we can have both. 0.98

01:15:14.000 And like the normal regime defenders and morons, Jon Stewart or whatever he's calling himself, they're like, well, that's the price of whatever he's calling himself. 0.99

01:15:21.000 That's a dub. 1.00

01:15:22.000 Freedom, like people shitting on the sidewalk is the price of freedom.

01:15:24.000 It's like, you can't fool me because I've lived here for 54 years.

01:15:27.000 I know that it's not the price of freedom because I lived in a country that was both free and clean and orderly.

01:15:31.000 So that's not a trade-off I think I have to make.

01:15:33.000 You can't, that is the beauty of being a little bit older because you're like, no, I remember that actually.

01:15:36.000 It wasn't what you're saying.

01:15:37.000 We didn't have racial segregation in 1985.

01:15:39.000 It was a really nice country that kind of respected itself.

01:15:41.000 I was here.

01:15:42.000 And I think with younger people, you can tell them that and they're like, oh, 1985, you were, you know, selling slaves in Madison Square Garden.

01:15:46.000 It's like, no, you weren't.

01:15:47.000 You're going to Madison Square Garden and not stepping over a single fentanyl addict.

01:15:50.000 It is true.

01:15:50.000 There doesn't have to be a trade-off between cleanliness and freedom of speech.

01:15:54.000 But it is also true that in dictatorships, cleanliness and architectural design is easier to achieve and perfect and often is done so so you can show off, look how great our cities are while you're suppressing... Of course!

01:16:03.000 Of course!

01:16:04.000 I agree with that vehemently.

01:16:05.000 This is not a defense of the Russian system at all.

01:16:08.000 And if I felt that way, I would not only move there, but I would announce I was moving there.

01:16:11.000 I'm not ashamed of my views.

01:16:12.000 I never have been.

01:16:13.000 And for all the people who are trying to impute secret motives to my words, I'm like the one person in America you don't need to do that with.

01:16:17.000 If you think I'm a racist, ask me and I'll tell you.

01:16:19.000 Are you a racist? 0.70

01:16:20.000 No, I'm a sexist though.

01:16:23.000 If I was like a defender of Vladimir Putin, I would just say I'm defending Vladimir Putin now.

01:16:27.000 I'm not.

01:16:28.000 I am attacking our leaders.

01:16:29.000 I am.

01:16:30.000 I'm defending Putin.

01:16:32.000 The low expectations of our people.

01:16:33.000 You don't need to put up with this.

01:16:34.000 You don't need to put up with foreign invaders stealing from you. 1.00

01:16:38.000 You know, occupying your kid's school.

01:16:39.000 Your kids can't get an education because people from foreign countries broke our laws and showed up here and they've taken over the school. 1.00

01:16:44.000 That's not a feature of freedom, actually.

01:16:45.000 That's the opposite.

01:16:46.000 That's what enslavement looks like.

01:16:48.000 And so I'm just saying, raise your expectations a little bit.

01:16:50.000 You can have a clean, functional, safe country.

01:16:52.000 Crime is totally optional.

01:16:53.000 Crime is something our leaders decide to have or not have.

01:16:55.000 It's not something that just appears organically.

01:16:57.000 I wrote a book about crime 30 years ago.

01:16:58.000 I thought a lot about this.

01:16:59.000 You have as much crime as you put up with.

01:17:00.000 Period.

01:17:01.000 And it doesn't make you less free to not tolerate murder.

01:17:04.000 In fact, it makes you unfree to have a lot of murders.

01:17:07.000 And so I just, but it makes me sad that people are like, well, you know, I guess this is, I can't like live in New York City anymore because of inflation and filth and illegal aliens and people shooting each other.

01:17:16.000 But you know, I'm just, I'm glad because this is vibrant and strong and free.

01:17:19.000 It's like, that's not freedom actually at all.

01:17:22.000 Your point is well taken.

01:17:23.000 You can have both, but do you regret?

01:17:24.000 We had both.

01:17:25.000 That's the point.

01:17:25.000 We had, I saw it.

01:17:26.000 Do you regret to a degree using the Moscow subway and the grocery store as a mechanism by which to make that point?

01:17:32.000 No.

01:17:33.000 I mean, I thought I, I mean, look,

01:17:35.000 I'm one of the more unselfaware people you will ever interview, so to ask me, you know, how will this be perceived?

01:17:42.000 I literally have no idea and kind of limited interest, but I was just so shocked by it.

01:17:47.000 I was so shocked by it.

01:17:48.000 And there were two, and to the extent I regret anything and am to blame for anything, it would be not, and I've done this a lot, not giving it context, not fully explaining why are we doing this.

01:17:56.000 The grocery store, I was shocked by the prices.

01:17:57.000 And yes, I'm familiar with exchange rates, but very familiar with exchange rates.

01:18:01.000 But those don't, and I adjusted them for exchange rates.

01:18:02.000 And this is two years in to sanctions, total isolation from the West.

01:18:06.000 So I would expect, in fact, I did expect until I got there that their supply chains would be crushed.

01:18:09.000 How do you get good stuff if you don't have access to Western markets?

01:18:13.000 And I didn't fully get the answer, because I was occupied doing other things when I was there, but somehow they have.

01:18:16.000 And that's the point.

01:18:17.000 And they haven't had the supply chain problems that I predicted.

01:18:19.000 In other words, sanctions haven't made the country noticeably worse.

01:18:23.000 OK, so again, this is commentary on the United States and our policymakers.

01:18:25.000 Why are we doing this?

01:18:26.000 It's forcing the rest of the world into a block against us called BRICS. 1.00

01:18:29.000 They're getting off the US dollar.

01:18:30.000 That will mean a lot of dollars are going to come back here and destroy our economy and impoverish this country.

01:18:34.000 So the consequences, the stakes are really high.

01:18:35.000 They're huge.

01:18:36.000 And we're not even hurting Russia.

01:18:37.000 It's like, what the hell are we doing?

01:18:38.000 One, on the subway.

01:18:40.000 That subway was built by Joseph Stalin.

01:18:42.000 Right before the Second World War.

01:18:43.000 I'm not endorsing Stalin, obviously.

01:18:45.000 Stalinism is a thing that I hate, and I don't want to come to my country.

01:18:48.000 I'm making the obvious point that for over 80 years you've had these frescoes and chandeliers, maybe they've been redone or whatever, but like somehow the society has been able to not destroy what its ancestors built.

01:18:55.000 The things that are worth having, and they're a lot.

01:18:58.000 And that, like, why don't we have that?

01:18:59.000 And even on a much more terrestrial plane, like, why can't I have a subway station like that?

01:19:03.000 Why can't my children who live in New York City ride the subway?

01:19:05.000 A lot of people I know who live in New York City are afraid to ride the subway, young women especially.

01:19:09.000 That's freedom?

01:19:10.000 No.

01:19:10.000 Again, it's slavery.

01:19:11.000 And how can, if Putin can do this, why can't we?

01:19:13.000 Like, what?

01:19:14.000 It's not, in other words, I mean, this is, like, so obvious.

01:19:16.000 I'm a traitor?

01:19:17.000 Okay.

01:19:17.000 So if I'm calling for American citizens to demand more from their government and higher standards for their own society and remember that just 30 years ago we had a much different and much happier and cleaner and healthier society,

01:19:26.000 Where everyone wasn't fat with diabetes at 40 from poisoned food.

01:19:30.000 Like, how is that?

01:19:31.000 I'm not a traitor to my country.

01:19:31.000 I'm a defender of my country.

01:19:32.000 By the way, the people calling me a traitor, they're all like, you know, they're not, I would not say they're people who put America's interests first.

01:19:39.000 There's many elements, like you said, you don't like Stalinism.

01:19:41.000 You know, you're a student of history.

01:19:43.000 Central planning is good at building subways in a way that's really nice.

01:19:47.000 The thing that accounts for New York subways, by the way, there's a lot of really positive things about New York subways.

01:19:51.000 Not cleanliness, but the efficiency, like the accessibility, how wide it spreads.

01:19:56.000 The New York network is incredible.

01:19:58.000 But Moscow, under different metrics, results of a capitalist system.

01:20:02.000 You actually said that you don't think US is quite a capitalist system, which is an interesting question.

01:20:05.000 We have more central planning here than they do in Russia.

01:20:06.000 No, that's not true.

01:20:07.000 Of course it is.

01:20:08.000 You think that's true?

01:20:08.000 The climate agenda?

01:20:09.000 Of course.

01:20:09.000 They're telling... The U.S.

01:20:10.000 government has, in league with a couple of big companies, decided to change the way we produce and consume energy.

01:20:15.000 There's no popular outcry for that.

01:20:17.000 There's never been any mass movement of Americans who's like, I just... I hate my gasoline-powered engine.

01:20:20.000 No more diesel!

01:20:21.000 That has been central planning.

01:20:22.000 That is central planning.

01:20:23.000 And you see it up and down our economy.

01:20:24.000 There's no free market in the United States.

01:20:25.000 You get crossways with the government, you're done.

01:20:26.000 If you're at scale, I mean, maybe you've got a barbershop or a liquor store or something, but even then, you're regulated.

01:20:30.000 By politicians.

01:20:31.000 And so, no, I actually am for free markets.

01:20:34.000 I hate monopolies.

01:20:34.000 Our economy is dominated by monopolies.

01:20:36.000 Completely dominated.

01:20:36.000 Like what do you mean?

01:20:37.000 Google.

01:20:38.000 What percentage of search does Google have?

01:20:39.000 90?

01:20:40.000 Google's a monopoly by any definition, and Google is just rich enough to continue doing whatever it wants in violation of U.S.

01:20:44.000 law.

01:20:45.000 So there's no monopoly in Russia as big as Google.

01:20:47.000 I'm not, again, defending the Russian system.

01:20:48.000 I'm calling for a return to our old system, which was sensible and moderate and put the needs of Americans at least somewhere in the top ten. 0.79

01:20:55.000 Somewhere in the top 10.

01:20:56.000 I'm not saying that Standard Oil was like interested in the welfare of average Americans, but I am saying that there was a constituency in our political system in the Congress, for example, different presidential candidates were like, no, wait a second.

01:21:04.000 What is this doing to people?

01:21:05.000 Is it good for people or not?

01:21:06.000 There's not even a conversation about that.

01:21:07.000 It's like, shut up and submit to AI.

01:21:09.000 And no offense. 0.78

01:21:09.000 And so I'm just- Offense taken. 0.78

01:21:12.000 We will get you.

01:21:13.000 You'll be the first one to know. 0.83

01:21:15.000 Well, as a white man, I just won't even exist anymore.

01:21:16.000 So much to say on that one. 0.98

01:21:17.000 I bet when you Google my picture, 20 years from now, it'll be a black chick. 1.00

01:21:22.000 Well, I hope she's attractive. 1.00

01:21:23.000 I hope so, too.

01:21:23.000 It'd probably be an upgrade.

01:21:26.000 So, well, the central planning point is really interesting, but I just don't... I don't know where you're coming from.

01:21:30.000 There's a capitalist system... I mean, the United States is one of the most successful capitalist systems in the history of Earth.

01:21:36.000 So he just has... All that he has are these Steve Pinker humanist talking points saying, free market lifted a billion people out of poverty.

01:21:45.000 We're the most free market country.

01:21:46.000 But Tucker's actually right.

01:21:47.000 And it's not... The country does not resemble a free market

01:21:52.000 We're good to go!

01:22:06.000 And he's right.

01:22:07.000 The climate thing, I feel like that was their next big play and I think it got deferred by a few developments like COVID.

01:22:14.000 Because if you pay attention to the 2016 election and the rhetoric, even in the Democratic primary in 2019 and 2020,

01:22:24.000 Before the pandemic it was all shaping up to be about climate, you know, it's the ICLEI It's the agenda 2030 And all that stuff environmental social governance I mean environment was supposed to be a huge part of it and that's how they redefine property ownership Because under the guise of climate they're able to effectively recategorize a lot of property and subjected to their jurisdiction, so

01:22:51.000 He's right about that.

01:22:52.000 There is a lot of manipulation and it's true how many monopolies there are.

01:22:57.000 When you look at most of the most important industries, it is dominated by just a few major companies.

01:23:04.000 That's true of almost everything in the tech sector.

01:23:08.000 You could call it a monopoly or an oligopoly.

01:23:12.000 You know, I mean, look at like, uh, X. What is the competitor to Twitter as a microblog tech platform?

01:23:20.000 Is there one other competitor in the space?

01:23:22.000 You might say Gab or TruthSocial, but what's the user base on those platforms?

01:23:27.000 X, they say, is 300 to 500 million.

01:23:31.000 Does TruthSocial come close?

01:23:33.000 Does Gab come close?

01:23:34.000 Does Telegram?

01:23:37.000 Telegram's not a microblog.

01:23:38.000 Different.

01:23:40.000 But there is no other microblog.

01:23:41.000 Same thing with... I mean, in the TikTok space, there's a little bit of competition.

01:23:47.000 YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.

01:23:49.000 But, I mean, really in terms of American tech, TikTok is, of course, Chinese.

01:23:54.000 American tech, you've got Meta.

01:23:58.000 That's really it.

01:23:59.000 You got Meta, you got Google.

01:24:00.000 Google runs the search platform, they run

01:24:04.000 YouTube, Meta runs Facebook and Instagram, you have X which is a microblog, and Amazon runs Twitch.

01:24:12.000 And Amazon also is the number one, it's an e-commerce giant, it's like half of all e-commerce in America.

01:24:20.000 So, the most valuable companies, Apple as well, you know, Apple's by far and away the number one American phone company, and in terms of a lot of the hardware.

01:24:34.000 By far and away the most valuable industry that America has, which is the tech industry, the most valuable companies, they're monopolies.

01:24:41.000 And they're monopolies protected by the law.

01:24:43.000 They're monopolies protected by regulation.

01:24:46.000 So, that's 100% right.

01:24:48.000 And people like Lex, they just have this kind of ancient, it's basically just an anachronism to say that America is this liberal free market democracy that, like I said, it's that Steve Pinker humanism thing, neoliberal thing, it's very trendy these days, but it just isn't true.

01:25:05.000 What's the most successful?

01:25:06.000 I'm just saying that I think it's changed a lot in the last 15 years and that we need to update our assumptions about what we're seeing.

01:25:10.000 Sure.

01:25:11.000 And that's true up and down.

01:25:12.000 That's true with everything.

01:25:13.000 It's true with your neighbor's children who you haven't seen in three years and they come home from Wesleyan and you're like, oh, you've grown.

01:25:16.000 That is true for the world around us as well.

01:25:18.000 And most of our assumptions about immigration, about our economy, about our tax system are completely outdated.

01:25:22.000 We're good to go.

01:25:39.000 I trust direct perceptions.

01:25:40.000 I don't trust the internet, actually.

01:25:41.000 Wikipedia is a joke.

01:25:43.000 Wikipedia could not be more dishonest.

01:25:45.000 It's certainly in the political categories or things that I know a lot about.

01:25:47.000 Occasionally I read an entry written about something that I saw or know the people involved. 0.94

01:25:49.000 I'm like, well, that's a complete liar.

01:25:50.000 You left out the most important fact.

01:25:51.000 And it's like, it's not a reliable guide to reality or history.

01:25:54.000 And that will accelerate with AI where history or perception of the past is completely controlled and distorted. 0.87

01:25:59.000 So I think just getting out there and seeing stuff and seeing that Moscow was not what I thought it would be, which was a smoldering ruin, you know, rats in a garbage dump.

01:26:06.000 It was nicer than New York. 0.99

01:26:07.000 What the hell?

01:26:07.000 Direct data is good, but it's challenging.

01:26:09.000 For example, if you talk to a lot of people in Moscow or in Russia and you ask them, is there censorship?

01:26:13.000 They will usually say, yes, there is.

01:26:14.000 Oh, yeah, of course there is.

01:26:15.000 Well, I agree.

01:26:16.000 I mean, just to be clear, I'm not I have no plans to move to Russia.

01:26:20.000 I think I would probably be arrested if I moved to Russia.

01:26:21.000 Ed Snowden, who is the most famous openness transparency advocate in the world, I would say, along with Assange, doesn't want to live in Russia.

01:26:29.000 He's had problems with the Putin government.

01:26:30.000 He's attacked Putin.

01:26:31.000 They don't like it.

01:26:31.000 I mean, I get it.

01:26:32.000 I get it.

01:26:33.000 I'm just saying.

01:26:35.000 What are the lessons for us?

01:26:36.000 And the main lesson is we are being lied to, like, in a way that's bewildering and very upsetting.

01:26:41.000 I was mad about it all eight days I was there, because I feel like I'm better informed than most people because it's my job to be informed, and I'm skeptical of everything, and yet I was completely hoodwinked by it.

01:26:48.000 I would just recommend to everyone watching this, like, you think you know, like, if you're really interested, if you're one of those people, and I'm not one, but who's like waking up every day and you've got a Ukrainian flag on your

01:26:54.000 Mailbox or whatever your ukrainian lapel pin or absurd theater, but if you like sincerely care about ukraine or russia or whatever Why don't you just hop on a plane for 800 bucks and go see it?

01:27:02.000 Okay.

01:27:02.000 No, that doesn't occur to anyone to do that And I know it's time consuming and kind of expensive sort of not really Um, but you benefit so much.

01:27:08.000 I mean I could bore you for like eight hours

01:27:10.000 And I know you've had this experience where you think you know what something is, or you think you know who someone is, and then you have direct experience of that place or person, and you realize all your preconceptions were totally wrong.

01:27:18.000 They were controlled by somebody else.

01:27:20.000 In fact, I won't betray confidence, but off the air, we were talking about somebody, and you said, I couldn't believe the person was not at all like what I thought.

01:27:24.000 That's happened to me- In the positive direction.

01:27:25.000 In the positive direction.

01:27:26.000 By the way, for me, it's almost always in that direction.

01:27:28.000 Most people I meet, and I've had a great-

01:27:31.000 Privilege of meeting a lot of people over all this time.

01:27:34.000 They're way better than you think, or they're more complicated, or whatever.

01:27:36.000 But the point is, a direct experience unmediated by liars, there's no substitute for that.

01:27:40.000 Well, on that point, direct experience in Ukraine.

01:27:42.000 So I visited Ukraine, and witnessed a lot of the same things you witnessed in Moscow.

01:27:45.000 So first of all, beautiful architecture.

01:27:46.000 Yes!

01:27:47.000 And this is a country that's really in war.

01:27:49.000 So it's not... Oh, for real?

01:27:50.000 Like, for real, where most of the men are either volunteering or fighting in the war, and there's actual tanks in the streets that are going into your major city of Kiev, and still the supply chains

01:27:59.000 Are working.

01:27:59.000 Yes.

01:27:59.000 A handful of months after the start of the war.

01:28:01.000 Everything is working.

01:28:02.000 The restaurants are amazing.

01:28:04.000 Most of the people are able to do some kind of job.

01:28:07.000 Like the life goes on.

01:28:09.000 Cleanliness, like you mentioned.

01:28:10.000 I love that.

01:28:11.000 Security, like it's incredible.

01:28:12.000 Like there's the crime went to zero.

01:28:14.000 They gave out guns to everybody.

01:28:16.000 The Texas strategy.

01:28:16.000 It does work.

01:28:17.000 Yeah.

01:28:17.000 When you witness it, you realize, okay, there's something to these people.

01:28:19.000 There's something to this country that they're not as corrupt as you might hear.

01:28:22.000 Right. 0.84

01:28:22.000 You hear that Russia is corrupt. 0.84

01:28:23.000 Ukraine is corrupt. 1.00

01:28:24.000 You assume it's just all going to go to shit. 1.00

01:28:25.000 So that's been, and I haven't been to Ukraine and I've certainly tried and they put me on some 0.99

01:28:28.000 Kill him immediately, List, so I can. 0.89

01:28:29.000 I've tried to interview Zelensky. 1.00

01:28:30.000 He keeps denouncing me.

01:28:30.000 I just want an interview with him.

01:28:31.000 He won't.

01:28:32.000 Unfortunately, I would love to do it.

01:28:33.000 I hope you do.

01:28:33.000 I do, too.

01:28:34.000 But one of the things that bothers me most, I'd love to hear that, what you just said about Kyiv.

01:28:38.000 But I'm not really surprised.

01:28:39.000 One of the things that I'm most ashamed of is the bigotry that I felt towards Slavic people, also toward Muslims, let's be totally honest, because I lived through decades of propaganda from NBC News and CNN, where I worked, you know, about this or that group of people and they're horrible or whatever.

01:28:51.000 And then you wind, and I kind of believed it.

01:28:52.000 And I see it now, like, we can't even put the word Russia at Wimbledon because it's so offensive.

01:28:56.000 What does the tennis player have to do with it?

01:28:58.000 Did he invade Ukraine?

01:28:58.000 I don't think he did.

01:28:59.000 You know, stealing all these business guys' yachts and denouncing them as oligarchs.

01:29:02.000 What do they have to do with it?

01:29:02.000 You know, whatever.

01:29:03.000 Here's my point.

01:29:04.000 The idea that a whole group of people is just evil because of their blood.

01:29:07.000 I just don't believe that.

01:29:08.000 Okay, but it isn't... Okay, but that... I don't agree with that.

01:29:13.000 I mean, I don't agree with the war against Russia, but if you are engaged in a war with Russia and the goal is regime change, it's not about hating Slavic people.

01:29:22.000 I don't think it's an anti-Slav thing at all.

01:29:25.000 I think?

01:29:45.000 I think it's immoral to think that and I can just tell you my own experience after eight days there

01:30:12.000 I think it's a really interesting culture, Slavic culture, which is shared, by the way, by Russia and Ukraine.

01:30:15.000 Of course, they're first cousins at the most distant.

01:30:19.000 I found them really smart and interesting and informed.

01:30:21.000 I didn't understand a lot of what they're saying.

01:30:22.000 I don't understand the way their minds work because I'm American, but it wasn't a thin culture.

01:30:25.000 It's a thick culture, you know?

01:30:27.000 And I admire that.

01:30:28.000 And I wish I could go to Ukraine.

01:30:28.000 I would go tomorrow.

01:30:29.000 So I think after you did the interview with Putin, you put a clip, I think on TCN, where like your sort of analysis afterwards.

01:30:36.000 It wasn't much of an analysis. 0.97

01:30:36.000 No, but what stood out to me is you were kind of talking shit about Putin a little bit. 0.97

01:30:39.000 Like you were criticizing him. 0.98

01:30:40.000 Why wouldn't I?

01:30:41.000 It spoke to the thing that you mentioned, which is you weren't afraid. 0.88

01:30:44.000 It would be badass if you criticize Putin for killing journalists. 1.00

01:30:47.000 He is such a faggot, dude. 1.00

01:30:48.000 He is the worst. 1.00

01:31:05.000 It would be totally freaking badass if you wore a Ukraine lapel pin and said, Listen up, Putin! 0.99

01:31:13.000 Stop killing journalists! 0.77

01:31:15.000 Navalny was a CIA agent and Russia didn't kill him.

01:31:19.000 Yes.

01:31:20.000 Oh, you mean if I also said that?

01:31:21.000 Well, yeah, I mean, of course I think that.

01:31:23.000 I'm not... So, I guess part of it is that I'm a little... Because I have such a low... Max Friedman hates Russia because he's a Jew.

01:31:30.000 Because he is a Ashkenazi Jew. 1.00

01:31:34.000 And he hates the Tsar.

01:31:35.000 He hates the Tsar because the Tsar discriminated against the Jews and the Tsar... Well, what is the Tsar? 0.51

01:31:43.000 Does anyone know where that comes from?

01:31:44.000 Tsar comes from Caesar.

01:31:48.000 Caesar, Tsar, Caesar, Tsar.

01:31:52.000 And what the Russians believe, it's a big part of the Russian consciousness, that the Tsar is the third successor to the Roman Caesar.

01:32:00.000 That Rome migrated from west to east.

01:32:04.000 That Rome started in Rome.

01:32:07.000 We're good to go.

01:32:37.000 So the Jews have a special hatred for Russia because the Jews have always hated Rome. 0.77

01:32:43.000 The Jews believe that Rome is Esau. 0.54

01:32:47.000 They believe that Rome and Israel are twin brothers, like Esau and Jacob are rather just brothers, and that are set against each other, that are hostile towards each other, and that the lesser, or the younger will serve, or the older will serve the younger.

01:33:04.000 So the Bible story goes.

01:33:08.000 So, there is a long history of Jews hating Russia because of the Pale of Settlement, because of the policies by Alexander III, after the Jews killed, I think it was Alexander II, and they also hate Russia because of the anti-Jewish discrimination there, because they're Orthodox,

01:33:35.000 A lot of the high-ranking bishops were anti-Semitic that influenced the Tsar.

01:33:40.000 And so all these people then came to the United States like Lex Fridman or their grandparents did or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents.

01:33:49.000 And they told the Jews here in America about how horrible Russia was and how they were segregated and they were put in ghettos and they were blamed for killing the Tsar and all that. 0.64

01:33:58.000 So they hate, they hate Russians. 0.97

01:34:01.000 But of course, 0.54

01:34:02.000 The Jews are not the victims.

01:34:04.000 The Jews instigated a lot of the problems in Europe, and then that is why they were discriminated against.

01:34:09.000 The Jews were the Bolsheviks. 1.00

01:34:11.000 The Jews were also the anarchists. 0.97

01:34:14.000 Because it wasn't just communists that were the problem.

01:34:17.000 In 19th century Russia, there were a lot of different types of revolutionaries.

01:34:20.000 There were liberals, there were anarchists, there were communists, there were socialists.

01:34:24.000 And the Jews made up a significant percentage of a lot of those groups.

01:34:30.000 So...

01:34:32.000 You know, the Jews were instigators. 1.00

01:34:34.000 Just like how in Germany, all the communist revolutions in the interwar period came from German Jews. 0.77

01:34:42.000 And then they say, well, Hitler came and attacked us for nothing. 0.82

01:34:45.000 It's like, well, the Jews were the progenitors of the transsexualism and the homosexuality. 0.99

01:34:50.000 They were the authors of the communist revolutions and other subversive activities. 0.50

01:34:56.000 And then they got, uh, there was retaliation by the law.

01:35:00.000 And then they say, well, we were just victims.

01:35:03.000 Same is true in Russia.

01:35:05.000 But it's sort of like a divorce.

01:35:06.000 It's sort of like that TikTok thing where that TikToker is talking about how her dad left her when she was a girl and didn't pay for healthcare.

01:35:15.000 Have you seen this?

01:35:16.000 That Maddie Hart girl?

01:35:18.000 And then dad comes in and goes, well, she's just been brainwashed by her mom.

01:35:22.000 And that's kind of like the Jews. 1.00

01:35:24.000 They're very feminine in that way because they're the eternal victim. 1.00

01:35:28.000 So Lex Fridman just hates Russia.

01:35:32.000 Just like Victoria Nuland, just like all the neocons in the State Department that are... Just like Ben Shapiro.

01:35:40.000 Ben Shapiro descends from Lithuanian-Russian Jews.

01:35:45.000 That's where his ancestors came from one or two generations ago.

01:35:51.000 So Shapiro hates Russia.

01:35:52.000 Friedman hates Russia.

01:35:53.000 They hate Russia because their great-grandparents told them about the Pale of Settlement and all that stuff. 0.83

01:36:00.000 So, Alexander III, the Jew, hates the Tsar.

01:36:05.000 opinion of the commentariat in the United States and the news organizations which really do just work for the US government.

01:36:11.000 I mean, I really see them as I did Izvestia and Pravda in the 80s.

01:36:14.000 Like, they're just organs of the government, and I think they're contemptible.

01:36:15.000 I think the people who work there are contemptible, and I say that as someone who knows them really well personally. 0.99

01:36:18.000 I think they're disgusting. 0.88

01:36:20.000 I'm a little bit cut off, kind of, from what people are saying about me because I'm not interested.

01:36:23.000 So I try not to be defensive.

01:36:24.000 Like, see, I'm not a tool of Putin.

01:36:25.000 But the idea that I'd be flacking for Putin when, you know, my relatives fought in the Revolutionary War.

01:36:29.000 Like, I'm as American as you could be.

01:36:32.000 It's, like, crazy to me.

01:36:33.000 Ann Applebaum calls me a traitor.

01:36:34.000 Okay, right. 1.00

01:36:35.000 It's just like so dumb. 0.99

01:36:36.000 But no, of course they don't have freedom. 0.99

01:36:37.000 No country has freedom of speech other than us.

01:36:39.000 Canada doesn't have it.

01:36:40.000 Great Britain definitely doesn't have it.

01:36:42.000 France, Netherlands.

01:36:42.000 These are countries I spend a lot of time in.

01:36:44.000 And Russia certainly doesn't have it.

01:36:45.000 So that's why I don't live there.

01:36:47.000 I'm just saying our sanctions don't work.

01:36:49.000 That's all I was saying.

01:36:49.000 And we don't have to live like animals.

01:36:51.000 We can live with dignity.

01:36:52.000 Even the Russians can do it.

01:36:53.000 That's kind of what I was saying. 0.89

01:36:54.000 Even the Russians under Vladimir freaking Putin can live like this. 0.88

01:36:57.000 And no, it's not a feature of dictatorship. 0.89

01:36:58.000 That's the most, I think, discouraging and most dishonest line.

01:37:01.000 By people like Jon Stewart, who really are trying to prepare the population for accepting a lot less.

01:37:07.000 He is really a tool of the regime in a sinister way.

01:37:08.000 Always has been.

01:37:10.000 Like, how dare you expect that?

01:37:11.000 What are you, a Stalinist?

01:37:12.000 It's like, no.

01:37:13.000 I'm an American.

01:37:14.000 I'm like a decent person.

01:37:14.000 I just want to be able to walk to the grocery store without being murdered.

01:37:16.000 Is that too much? 1.00

01:37:17.000 Shut up! 1.00

01:37:17.000 You don't believe in freedom! 1.00

01:37:18.000 It's really dark if you think about it, you know?

01:37:20.000 So there is a fundamental way in which you wanted Americans to expect more.

01:37:22.000 You don't have to live like this.

01:37:24.000 We don't have to live like this.

01:37:24.000 You don't have to accept it.

01:37:26.000 You don't.

01:37:26.000 And everyone's afraid in this country they're going to be shut down by the

01:37:29.000 Tech oligarchs or have the FBI show up at their houses or go to jail and people are legit afraid of that in the United States and my feeling is So like show a little courage like what is it worth to you for your grandchildren to live in a free prosperous country?

01:37:40.000 It should be worth more than your comfort.

01:37:41.000 That's how I feel We should make clear that you know by many measures you look at the World Press Freedom Index You're right us is not at the top Norway Norway is us is scores 71 same as Gambia

01:37:56.000 Ukraine is 61, and Russia is 35.

01:37:58.000 The lower it is, the worse.

01:38:00.000 Close to China at 23, and North Korea at the very bottom at 22.

01:38:02.000 Didn't Ukraine put Gonzalo Lira in jail until he died for criticizing the government?

01:38:05.000 How can they have a high press?

01:38:06.000 Yes, that's why they're 61 out of 0 to 23.

01:38:08.000 I don't know what the criteria are they're using to arrive at that, but I know press freedom when I see it.

01:38:12.000 I try to practice it, which is saying what you think is true, correcting yourself when you've been shown to be wrong, as I have many times, being as honest as you can be all the time, and not being afraid.

01:38:20.000 And those are wholly absent in my country, wholly absent.

01:38:22.000 People are afraid in the news business, I would know.

01:38:24.000 Since I spent my life working there, and they're afraid to tell the truth.

01:38:26.000 They're under an enormous amount of pressure, and a lot of them have little kids and mortgages.

01:38:28.000 I've been there.

01:38:29.000 So I have sympathy, but they go along with things.

01:38:31.000 Like, you are not allowed, if you stand up at any cable channel, any cable channel in the United States, and say, wait a second, how did the Ukrainian government throw a U.S.

01:38:38.000 citizen into prison until he died for criticizing the Ukrainian government?

01:38:41.000 And we're paying for that.

01:38:42.000 That's what's offensive to me.

01:38:43.000 We're paying for it.

01:38:43.000 That happens all the time around the world, of course.

01:38:46.000 But this is a U.S.

01:38:46.000 citizen, and we're paying the pensions of Ukrainian bureaucrats.

01:38:49.000 Like, we are the Ukrainian government at this point.

01:38:51.000 And, like, if you said that on TV, on any channel, well, you'd lose your job for that.

01:38:55.000 So, like, that's not... I don't care.

01:38:56.000 Norway is at the top.

01:38:57.000 Really, Norway.

01:38:58.000 If I went on Norwegian television and said, NATO blew up Nord Stream, which it did.

01:39:01.000 NATO blew up Nord Stream.

01:39:02.000 The United States government, with the help of other governments, blew up, committed the largest acts of industrial terrorism in history, and by the way, the largest environmental crime, the largest emission of CO2, methane.

01:39:10.000 Could I keep my job now?

01:39:11.000 So how is that a free press?

01:39:11.000 Well, we don't know that.

01:39:12.000 I mean, the whole point is... In Norway?

01:39:13.000 Yes.

01:39:13.000 Well, as a Scandinavian, I can tell you, they would not put up with that in Norway for a second.

01:39:16.000 It's been a while.

01:39:16.000 Are you deviating from the majority?

01:39:17.000 No.

01:39:18.000 Well, deviating maybe is frowned upon, but do you have the freedom to say it if you do deviate?

01:39:24.000 That's the question.

01:39:25.000 Can you keep your job?

01:39:25.000 That's one measurement of it.

01:39:26.000 It's not the only measurement.

01:39:27.000 Obviously being thrown into prison is much worse than losing a job.

01:39:29.000 I've been fired a number of times for saying what I think, by the way.

01:39:32.000 And it's fine.

01:39:32.000 I've enjoyed it.

01:39:33.000 I don't mind being fired.

01:39:33.000 I've always become a better person after it happened.

01:39:36.000 But it is one measurement of freedom.

01:39:37.000 If, you know, if you have the theoretical right to do something, but no practical ability to do it, do you have the right to do it?

01:39:41.000 And the answer is not really, actually.

01:39:43.000 You mentioned Jon Stewart.

01:39:44.000 The two of you have a bit of a history.

01:39:45.000 I don't know if you've seen it, but he kind of grilled your supermarket and subway videos.

01:39:49.000 Have you got a chance to see it?

01:39:50.000 I haven't seen it, but someone characterized it to me, which is why I pivoted against it early in our conversation about how the price of freedom is living in filth and chaos.

01:39:57.000 Yeah, that was essentially it.

01:39:58.000 So in 2004, that's 20 years ago, Jon Stewart appeared on Crossfire, a show you hosted, and that was kind of a...

01:40:05.000 Memorable moment.

01:40:06.000 Can you tell the saga of that as you remember it?

01:40:07.000 I mean, for me, you know, as I was saying to you before about how it takes a long time to digest and process and understand what happens to you, or at least it does for me, I didn't understand that as a particularly significant moment while it was happening.

01:40:16.000 I just got off the plane.

01:40:16.000 Norway, by the way, I just want to jump in here before we get away from it.

01:40:20.000 The Norway thing is, like, these people just have no real understanding.

01:40:25.000 They have no real

01:40:28.000 Um, encounter with how the world really works.

01:40:30.000 When you say things like, well, the Press Freedom Index, who makes the Press Freedom Index?

01:40:35.000 Is that an objective measure?

01:40:37.000 So, from the start, when people use these things like, well, the Gini Coefficient, or the Freedom Index, the Press Index, those are not real.

01:40:47.000 Those are not quantifiable.

01:40:48.000 Those are... People are making those judgments.

01:40:52.000 They can set the parameters

01:40:54.000 For what they're looking for, and how they quantify that, and they can get the result that they'd like.

01:41:00.000 That's one.

01:41:01.000 So to say, well, our press freedom index, that's a meaningless, that's a meaningless measure.

01:41:06.000 That's one.

01:41:07.000 Two, when you say that Norway is number one in press freedom, Norway is not the empire that runs the world.

01:41:16.000 So, what's the population of Norway?

01:41:18.000 How much, what percentage do they spend from their GDP on their military? 0.75

01:41:24.000 The United States has a nuclear arsenal.

01:41:26.000 The United States has military bases on every continent.

01:41:29.000 The United States has branches or divisions within their military for every corner of the globe.

01:41:35.000 The United States protects international shipping and it goes on and on and on.

01:41:39.000 The UN is headquartered in the United States.

01:41:42.000 So, yeah, the United States is going to treat the press a little bit differently than Norway.

01:41:50.000 Which is an outpost of the United States.

01:41:53.000 And it's not, listen, you know, I love Europe, I love Europeans and everything, but it's just fundamentally different.

01:42:00.000 If Norway had the same global importance as the United States,

01:42:05.000 The way that they treat the press would reflect that.

01:42:09.000 And I'm not defending that.

01:42:10.000 I'm a victim of censorship, of course.

01:42:12.000 I'm a victim of all that stuff.

01:42:14.000 I've been subpoenaed by the government, put on a federal no-fly list without a trial, without a charge, had my bank accounts frozen, all that.

01:42:24.000 I've had bank accounts banned.

01:42:26.000 I've had credit card processors ban me.

01:42:29.000 I'm banned from all major social media.

01:42:30.000 So believe me, I get it.

01:42:31.000 I'm the biggest victim of that.

01:42:34.000 By the same token, you understand why things are the way that they are.

01:42:39.000 And they're probably worse than they ever happened in terms of censorship, in terms of control, but to say, you know, Denmark and Norway are the most happy!

01:42:48.000 It's like, yeah, maybe if you completely ignore the composition of those countries, if you ignore the demographic composition, if you ignore their economic development, if you ignore global importance, global firepower,

01:43:04.000 Huge difference.

01:43:05.000 The country that is a steward and custodian of a nuclear arsenal, it's a different place than Denmark, than a freaking island city, an island city-state. 0.72

01:43:18.000 So I just wanted to throw that out there.

01:43:20.000 I was out of it, as usual.

01:43:21.000 And I was very literal, as usual.

01:43:23.000 And so from my perspective, his criticism of me, to the extent I remember it, was that I was a partisan.

01:43:27.000 Well, he had two criticisms. 0.99

01:43:28.000 One, that Crossfire was stupid, which it certainly was. 0.99

01:43:30.000 In fact, I'd already given my notice that I was moving on to another company by that point. 1.00

01:43:34.000 Crossfire was stupid. 1.00

01:43:35.000 Crossfire didn't help. 1.00

01:43:36.000 Crossfire framed everything as Republican versus Democrat, whatever.

01:43:40.000 It was not helpful to the public discourse.

01:43:41.000 I couldn't agree more.

01:43:42.000 And that's why I left.

01:43:44.000 So that was part of his critique.

01:43:45.000 Fair.

01:43:45.000 I'm not sure I would have admitted it at the time, because I worked there, and it's hard to admit you're engaged in an enterprise that's, like, fundamentally worthless, which it was.

01:43:51.000 But his other point was that I was somehow a partisan, or a mindless partisan, which is definitely not true.

01:43:55.000 I mean, it is true of him. 0.94

01:43:56.000 He is a mindless partisan.

01:43:58.000 But I'm not, and I haven't been for—I really haven't been since I got back from Baghdad at the beginning of the Iraq War, and I realized that

01:44:03.000 The Republican Party, which I'd voted for, you know, my whole life to that point, and had supported in general, was like, pushing this really horrible thing that was gonna hurt the United States, which in time it really did.

01:44:12.000 The Iraq War really hurt the United States.

01:44:14.000 And I realized that I had been on the wrong side of that.

01:44:15.000 I said so publicly, immediately, from Baghdad I said that, to the New York Times, and I really meant it, I mean it now.

01:44:19.000 And so to call me partisan, you could call me stupid, you could call me wrong, I certainly have been wrong, but partisan, I just didn't think it was a meaningful, I mean, it's like, that's just not true.

01:44:26.000 It's the opposite of true. 0.92

01:44:27.000 So I didn't really take it seriously at all. 0.88

01:44:29.000 And I never thought much of him, so I was like, whatever, some buffoon jumping around on my show, grandstanding.

01:44:35.000 But I do think it was recorded.

01:44:36.000 And by the way, that happened right at the moment that YouTube began.

01:44:38.000 I think that was one of the first big YouTube videos.

01:44:39.000 It was one of the first big YouTube videos.

01:44:41.000 So it had a virality that, if that's a word, it went everywhere in a way that didn't used to happen in cable news.

01:44:46.000 I mean, by that point, that was 20 years ago, as you point out.

01:44:47.000 I've been in cable news for nine years.

01:44:49.000 So, before 2004, we would say something on television, and then it would kind of, it would be lost.

01:44:55.000 Like, people could claim they heard it, but you'd have to go to the, I think the University of Tennessee at Knoxville archives to get it.

01:44:59.000 Suddenly, everything we said would live forever on the internet.

01:45:02.000 Which is good, by the way.

01:45:03.000 It's not bad, but it was a big change for me, and I just couldn't believe how widely that was discussed at the time, because I thought he was not an interesting person.

01:45:09.000 I think he's obviously a very unhappy person.

01:45:12.000 I just didn't take him seriously then, and I don't now.

01:45:14.000 But, uh, so anyway, that was it.

01:45:16.000 It was a smaller thing in my life at the time.

01:45:18.000 Okay, you said a lot of words that will make it sound like you're a bit bitter, even if you're not.

01:45:23.000 So, you said unhappy person, partisan person.

01:45:25.000 Well, he's definitely partisan, for sure.

01:45:26.000 So, can you elaborate why you think he's partisan?

01:45:28.000 Well, so, I think that, and I see this a lot, not only on the left, but people who believe that whatever political debate they're engaged in is the most important debate in the world.

01:45:35.000 And so, they bring an emotional intensity to those debates, and they're inevitably disappointed because no eternal question is solved politically.

01:45:40.000 So, they're kind of on the wrong path, right?

01:45:42.000 And they're doomed to frustration.

01:45:43.000 That's true.

01:45:44.000 That's actually a good take, I think.

01:46:01.000 That was kind of like the same discussion I had with Destiny.

01:46:17.000 When, years ago, one of the first times we kind of reconnected after a while, and I think it was on the Sneakostream or something like that, and I said, well, what do you, do you think about what happens after you die?

01:46:28.000 And he's like, why would I think about that?

01:46:30.000 I want to, I care about things that matter here, like making things marginally better for people.

01:46:34.000 And then we kind of had a follow-up the last time I spoke with him on Fresh and Fit, and I said, like, what is your reason for living?

01:46:41.000 Why do you live? 1.00

01:46:42.000 Why don't you kill yourself? 1.00

01:46:43.000 And he was like, hobbies? 1.00

01:46:46.000 Hobbies and friends?

01:46:48.000 And I said, yeah, but your parents are gonna die.

01:46:52.000 So what happens then? 0.99

01:46:53.000 And you're gonna die. 0.96

01:46:55.000 You're gonna get sick. 0.97

01:46:56.000 You're gonna get frail.

01:46:58.000 Horrible things will happen to you.

01:46:59.000 You will be filled with grief.

01:47:01.000 You'll be overflowing with grief by the time you die from friends dying and things not going your way.

01:47:07.000 I said, so what then?

01:47:09.000 Why is life worth living then?

01:47:12.000 And the next day, he had this epiphany where he goes on his show and says, oh, I had this dream last night that all my younger fans were at the park and I couldn't play with them because I was sick, because I'm getting old.

01:47:27.000 He said, and that's the first time I've ever thought about my mortality.

01:47:31.000 That was like the next day right after the debate, so... But I've always had that discussion with them because fundamentally, the distinction is that those, that side, more than that they are liberal or leftist or whatever, they are materialists.

01:47:47.000 They're not just atheists.

01:47:50.000 They're not just atheists, meaning they believe there's no God, or that we're not created.

01:47:56.000 They believe that all there is is matter.

01:47:58.000 They believe that all we are is matter.

01:48:00.000 All we are is the sum of our chemical processes and atomic particles.

01:48:05.000 And that's all that there is.

01:48:06.000 That's all we are.

01:48:08.000 That's all everyone else is.

01:48:09.000 That's all there will ever be.

01:48:10.000 And that, I think, leads to, like he says, nihilism, despair.

01:48:16.000 And I think that what liberals are just on, like, a timed release of nihilism. 0.95

01:48:20.000 That's why liberals are very dysfunctional, and then they go and shoot up a church, or then they kill themselves, or then they die from a drug overdose, or, you know, something... There's usually a tragedy at the end of that kind of pathological leftism. 0.90

01:48:32.000 There's really... I don't think anyone really gets out of that unless they convert to something else.

01:48:40.000 And that's why they're I think in many cases dysfunctional people it's because They're in the process of distracting themselves from their own mortality and you can only do that for so long and they distract themselves with

01:48:56.000 Drugs, sex, and travel.

01:48:57.000 That's the motto of Destiny's wife.

01:48:59.000 Destiny's wife said, my life is STDs. 0.98

01:49:03.000 Sex, travel, and drugs. 0.99

01:49:05.000 That's her life. 0.88

01:49:06.000 And that's a pretty good summary of all the things that a person can do, all the things a well-off person can do in today's society to escape a reflection.

01:49:19.000 To escape your reflection in the mirror, which is a mortal, aging, dying face.

01:49:26.000 So people get high, they forget where they are, they forget about their problems, people get involved in sex, these kind of all-consuming drama and relationships, and do they like me? 0.99

01:49:38.000 I don't know, you know, I like them, blah blah, that kind of shit. 0.97

01:49:42.000 I like this one, oh I don't know. 0.95

01:49:45.000 And travel, where if you ever feel like you're dying in your house because you're, you know, the trash is piling up and you have a bad memory in your living room and you feel despair, life's not worth living, well you go and get a change of scenery.

01:49:59.000 Now I'm in a new place and I'm so tantalized by the novelty of the experience that I'm, you know, I'm just kind of distracted.

01:50:08.000 And if you fill up your life with all these different things,

01:50:12.000 I'm constantly in a new place.

01:50:13.000 I'm constantly in an altered state of mind.

01:50:16.000 Up or down.

01:50:17.000 I'm constantly chasing a new relationship or thinking about one or something like that.

01:50:23.000 And you can do that for a long time and you can forget that you're getting old and dying.

01:50:30.000 But you can't do it forever because

01:50:32.000 Death asserts itself everywhere.

01:50:35.000 People you know die.

01:50:36.000 People you know get sick.

01:50:38.000 Horrible things happen all around you.

01:50:40.000 It's unavoidable.

01:50:41.000 And eventually you start to die.

01:50:42.000 You start to think about... 1.00

01:50:44.000 The fact that your fucking back hurts, you know? 1.00

01:50:47.000 Ow! 1.00

01:50:48.000 I wake up and it hurts!

01:50:50.000 I have some chronic health problem I have to live with now, and I have to take this pill every day, so that means that I need a doctor, which means I need a prescription, which means, you know... And you start to realize, no, we need to be rooted.

01:51:01.000 We need to... The only thing that will give us any kind of lasting peace on Earth, or satisfaction,

01:51:09.000 is rootedness.

01:51:11.000 Rootedness with family, a church, a community, those things.

01:51:15.000 But fundamentally it proceeds from the resignation that this is temporary.

01:51:21.000 That this is passing.

01:51:23.000 That whatever chemical processes, particles you are, that will not be doing it for long.

01:51:28.000 These particles will not be in this arrangement for very long.

01:51:31.000 Processes are... There's a time limit.

01:51:38.000 So...

01:51:39.000 You need to accept that fact.

01:51:42.000 And then, that is when you start to think about death.

01:51:44.000 When you realize that we will die, then you think about death.

01:51:47.000 And you might fear death, because death initially is very scary, because it's all you've ever known.

01:51:53.000 And, you know, if you're dead forever, and then born, and then dead forever after that, this brief time you enjoy life, it's almost like losing everything when you die.

01:52:03.000 But that's when you start to think about a life after death.

01:52:07.000 And that's

01:52:23.000 They're given to being bitter and thinking that it's really just a matter of, you know, if I just do this, they're chasing these things like happiness or whatever, a hobby, some kind of cause, some kind of campaign.

01:52:38.000 You know we're in the terminal stage of leftism.

01:52:41.000 You know we're in the terminal stage of materialism when they have taken up causes

01:52:47.000 Because that's kind of the last stop on the train to complete nihilism, when you say, you know, because for a long time it's like, oh, well, we live for peace and love, man, and sex, and getting high, and that kind of stuff.

01:53:00.000 Well, then it's music!

01:53:01.000 Then it's music and it's art!

01:53:03.000 And now we're in this terminal stage of denial on the part of these materialist nihilist types. 0.77

01:53:12.000 Where they say, NO MORE SEX DRUGS AND ROCK AND ROLL! 0.71

01:53:15.000 We need to get serious!

01:53:16.000 We need to get into political causes!

01:53:20.000 Because we need to be a part of something bigger and we need to chase some kind of ethical thing!

01:53:26.000 But then they realize even that is futile!

01:53:29.000 And what happens when you realize that political causes and campaigns are futile?

01:53:34.000 You will never eliminate poverty!

01:53:37.000 You will never free the people!

01:53:40.000 You will never succeed!

01:53:41.000 It will never happen!

01:53:43.000 Ever!

01:53:44.000 Because we live in the world and the world has fallen and man has fallen.

01:53:49.000 So sin and evil have crept in to this realm and they will never go away until the end of days.

01:53:55.000 So all of that will fail forever, and eventually people realize that.

01:54:00.000 And that's when they give themselves to the dark.

01:54:02.000 They either convert, they accept their death, they accept evil in the world, they accept the fundamental problems and truths about our reality, or...

01:54:13.000 It shepherds, and I think this is where society is heading, it will herald and shepherd the coming of the darkest age we've ever seen.

01:54:21.000 Full-on Satanism, full-on Antichrist, full-on black magic, full-on...

01:54:28.000 We're good to go.

01:54:46.000 They're gonna kind of go to the next stage of development of that idea the intensification of that idea, which is Magic outright evil, you know, but it's kind of I think everyone can understand it's coming to an inflection point and that's why you're seeing more and more of that these days you're seeing a lot more witches and magic and crystals and outright embrace of the devil and

01:55:11.000 Dude, this live chat is just embarrassing. 0.99

01:55:21.000 This guy, Liam, says, reality is the most stupid creation. 1.00

01:55:25.000 Get the, dude, shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:55:27.000 What did I, Grumble is just like, it is not my usual audience. 1.00

01:55:32.000 It's how you get people that wander in here and they're like, bro, reality is stupid creation. 0.98

01:55:38.000 Get the, what did you, where did you come from? 0.99

01:55:40.000 Did you wander in here from a vape shop or something?

01:55:43.000 Listen, buddy, the gas station is down there.

01:55:45.000 We don't sell vapes here.

01:55:48.000 Bro wandered in, he was looking for a,

01:55:51.000 Looking for a smoke shop.

01:55:55.000 No, we don't sell that here.

01:55:57.000 I'm a Republican, so... But I just thought it was ironic.

01:55:59.000 I mean, everything's ironic to me, but, like, being called a Russia sympathizer by a guy who calls himself Boris.

01:56:04.000 Like, that just made me laugh.

01:56:05.000 No one else has ever laughed at that.

01:56:05.000 Boris Johnson's real name is not Boris, as you know.

01:56:07.000 He calls himself Boris.

01:56:08.000 It's his middle name.

01:56:09.000 And so, like, if you call yourself Boris, you don't really have standing to attack anyone else as a Russia defender, right?

01:56:13.000 That's my... I think that's funny.

01:56:14.000 No one else, as I noted, does.

01:56:15.000 But...

01:56:17.000 But Jon Stewart, like, you know, if he... There are a lot of things you could say about me, but he's much more partisan than I am, so to call me a partisan, it's like, what?

01:56:23.000 He would probably say that he's not a partisan, that he's a comedian who's looking for the humor and the absurdity of the system on both sides.

01:56:29.000 He's a dead serious, he's a very serious person in this, I will say this, and he shares this quality with a lot of comedians, I know a lot of comedians.

01:56:34.000 I know a cross-section of people just having done this job for a long time and a lot of them are very serious like about their views and they have a lot of emotional intensity and he certainly is in that category he's not that's that's like the silliest thing yeah he's a comedian for sure he can be very funny for sure he has talent no doubt about I've never denied that but he is a piece motivated by

01:56:50.000 By his moral views.

01:56:51.000 You know, this is right, that is wrong.

01:56:51.000 And I just think that it's a misapplied passion.

01:56:55.000 Wait, do you think I'm just a comedian?

01:56:56.000 I don't think any serious person thinks that.

01:56:58.000 I mean, if you're just a comedian... And I... I'm not trying to claim... I couldn't claim that I haven't said a lot of dumb things.

01:57:04.000 And one of the dumbest things I ever said was when he was on our set lecturing me. 0.98

01:57:08.000 You know, he's a moralizer, which I also just don't really care for as an aesthetic matter. 0.94

01:57:11.000 But he was lecturing me about something, and I said, I thought you were here to tell jokes.

01:57:15.000 Which I shouldn't have said, because he wasn't there to tell jokes.

01:57:17.000 He was there to lecture me, and I should have just engaged it directly, rather than trying to diminish him by like, here's a good comedian.

01:57:21.000 Well, he doesn't see himself that way.

01:57:23.000 But I would just say this.

01:57:24.000 Jon Stewart's a defender of power.

01:57:25.000 Like, Jon Stewart has never criticized, like, what's Jon Stewart's view on, you know, the aid we've sent to Ukraine?

01:57:29.000 The $100 billion or whatever.

01:57:30.000 Like, what happened to that money?

01:57:31.000 What happened to the weapons that I bought?

01:57:32.000 He doesn't care.

01:57:33.000 He has the exact same priorities as the people permanently in charge in Washington.

01:57:38.000 That's so funny.

01:57:43.000 You know that he's such a cable guy.

01:57:48.000 You know that that's like cable TV brain when you talk about Mika Brzezinski in 2024.

01:57:53.000 I wonder how many people watching this stream even know who that is.

01:57:56.000 Maybe ten years ago or seven years ago or whatever you might say.

01:58:01.000 Oh yeah, I wonder what Morning Joe said about such and such a thing.

01:58:05.000 Does anybody care about

01:58:07.000 Joe and Mika anymore only somebody who's at Fox News for you know, and I you know, that's just he's a creature of cable news But it's just funny you kind of see that shine through and they throw out an illusion like that Does Mika Brzezinski it's like Mika Brzezinski

01:58:23.000 I haven't heard that name in a long time.

01:58:25.000 I haven't heard Morning Joe in a long time.

01:58:27.000 I'll just be honest that I watched it just recently, that video.

01:58:29.000 From 20 years ago?

01:58:29.000 From 20 years ago.

01:58:30.000 I watched it initially, and I remember it very differently.

01:58:32.000 I remember that Jon Stewart completely destroyed you in that conversation, and I watched it, and you asked a very good question of him.

01:58:52.000 Which was, and you, there was no destruction, first of all, and you asked a very good question of him.

01:58:56.000 Why, when you got a chance to interview John Kerry, did you ask a bunch of softball questions?

01:59:00.000 Yeah.

01:59:00.000 I thought that was a really fair question, and then his defense was, well, I'm just a comedian.

01:59:04.000 So I thought that was disingenuous, and I haven't watched it, I never have watched that clip one time in my life, and I don't like to watch myself on television, I never have.

01:59:11.000 So, and that's my fault, and I probably should force myself to watch it, though of course I never will.

01:59:14.000 But I think the takeaway for me, which was really interesting and life-changing, was I agree with your assessment.

01:59:19.000 I'm not just... I've lost a lot of debates.

01:59:21.000 I've been humiliated on television.

01:59:22.000 I'm not above that.

01:59:22.000 It certainly happened to me.

01:59:23.000 It will happen again.

01:59:24.000 But I didn't feel like it was a clear win for him at all.

01:59:27.000 Maybe a TKO, but it was not a knockout at all.

01:59:29.000 And yet it was recorded that way.

01:59:29.000 And I remember thinking, well, that's kind of weird.

01:59:30.000 That's not what I remember.

01:59:31.000 And then I realized, no, Jon Stewart was more popular than I was.

01:59:34.000 Therefore, he was recorded as the winner.

01:59:35.000 And that was hard for me to accept because that struck me as unfair.

01:59:37.000 You should rate any contest on points.

01:59:39.000 Like, here are the rules.

01:59:40.000 We're going to judge the contest on the basis of those rules.

01:59:42.000 And no, in the end, it's just like the more popular guy wins.

01:59:44.000 Every TV critic liked Jon Stewart.

01:59:45.000 Every one of them hated me.

01:59:45.000 Therefore, he won.

01:59:46.000 And I was like, wow, I guess I have to accept that reality.

01:59:49.000 And you do, like the reality of the sunrise.

01:59:50.000 You just have, you know, you're not in charge of it.

01:59:51.000 So that's just what it is.

01:59:52.000 Unfortunately, it's a bit darker, I think. 0.73

01:59:53.000 The reason he's seen as the winner and the reason at the time I saw as the quote-unquote winner is because he was basically shitting on you, like personal attacks versus engaging ideas.

01:59:59.000 And it was, it was funny in a dark way and like making fun of the bow tie and all this kind of stuff. 0.99

02:00:04.000 And it was fair to call me a dick. 0.99

02:00:05.000 I remember he called me a dick. 1.00

02:00:05.000 And I remember even when he said that, I was like, yeah, I'm definitely a dick. 1.00

02:00:07.000 That's not my best quality. 0.96

02:00:09.000 But also, to be kind of... I thought Jon Stewart came off as a giant dick at that time, and I'm a big fan of his, and I think he has improved a lot.

02:00:16.000 That may be true. 0.97

02:00:16.000 We should also say that, like, people grow. 0.97

02:00:18.000 People, like... Well, I certainly have, or change.

02:00:20.000 Anyway, you hope it's growth.

02:00:21.000 You hope it's not shrinkage.

02:00:22.000 But, um... But... It is pulled outside.

02:00:25.000 Yeah.

02:00:25.000 I mean, look, I haven't followed Jon Stewart's career at all.

02:00:29.000 I don't have a television.

02:00:30.000 I'm pretty cut off from all that stuff.

02:00:31.000 So I wouldn't really know, but the measure to me is, are you taking positions that are unpopular with the most powerful people in the world, and how often are you doing it?

02:00:39.000 It's super simple.

02:00:39.000 Not for its own sake, but do you feel free enough to say, you know, to the consensus, I disagree.

02:00:45.000 And if you don't, then you're just another toady.

02:00:47.000 That's my view.

02:00:48.000 Well, I think he probably feels free enough to do it, but you're saying he doesn't do it.

02:00:51.000 On the big things.

02:00:52.000 Hour and twenty minutes, bruh!

02:01:08.000 I'm going to skip this part.

02:01:09.000 I don't want to hear this part about the war in Ukraine.

02:01:12.000 I've heard enough of this.

02:01:13.000 We're an hour and 20 minutes in.

02:01:15.000 I have not heard anything super interesting.

02:01:17.000 I'm going to skip the Putin thing.

02:01:19.000 I'm going to skip... I might do the Hitler thing. 0.99

02:01:21.000 I'm going to skip the nuclear war thing. 0.67

02:01:23.000 I might just go to the Trump part.

02:01:25.000 I just want to see what he has to say about Nazis.

02:01:27.000 I'm ashamed of it.

02:01:28.000 What do you think of Putin saying that justification for continuing the war is denazification? 0.98

02:01:32.000 I thought it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard. 0.92

02:01:33.000 I don't understand what it meant. 0.96

02:01:34.000 Denazification?

02:01:35.000 It literally means what it sounds like.

02:01:37.000 You know, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on this.

02:01:39.000 I hate that whole conversation because it's not real.

02:01:41.000 It's just ad hominem.

02:01:42.000 It's a way of associating someone with an evil regime that doesn't exist anymore.

02:01:45.000 But in point of fact, Nazism, whatever it was, is inseparable from the German nation.

02:01:50.000 It was a nationalist movement in Germany.

02:01:51.000 There were no other Nazis, right? 0.90

02:01:52.000 There's no book of Nazism.

02:01:53.000 Like, I want to be a Nazi.

02:01:54.000 What does it mean to be a Nazi?

02:01:55.000 There's no Mein Kampf.

02:01:56.000 Mein Kampf is not Das Kapital, right?

02:01:58.000 Mein Kampf is like, to the extent I understand it, it's like he's pissed about the Treaty of Versailles.

02:02:00.000 Whatever.

02:02:01.000 I'm very anti-Nazi.

02:02:02.000 I'm merely saying there isn't a Nazi movement in 2024.

02:02:04.000 It's a way of calling people evil.

02:02:06.000 Okay, Putin doesn't like nationalist Ukrainians.

02:02:10.000 Putin hates nationalism in general, which is interesting.

02:02:12.000 But of course he does.

02:02:12.000 He's got 80 whatever.

02:02:13.000 But not... Nazism means something different for the Russians.

02:02:19.000 So that's... That wasn't for the West. 0.57

02:02:21.000 It wasn't... And it wasn't merely saying that Ukraine is evil.

02:02:25.000 Because they're talking about something very specific.

02:02:28.000 They're talking about these Galician Nazis who were regarded as heroes from World War II.

02:02:37.000 And...

02:02:38.000 A lot of them were extremely anti-Russian.

02:02:42.000 They have ethnic hatred of Russians and a big part of the war, I mean this is one dimension of it, is that Russia says that they will protect the ethnic Russians inside of Ukraine and against the discrimination against the Russian language and the Russian people east of the Dnieper River or what would have happened in Crimea of Ukraine if this government in Kiev controlled Crimea.

02:03:08.000 And the other thing is the historical legacy of World War II, and to some extent World War I, which is that the Nazis invaded Russia and tens of millions of Russians died repelling that invasion, and many Russians were killed as prisoners of war of Nazi Germany, and they regard

02:03:29.000 That is a similar threat to what's happening with NATO and Ukraine, that Ukraine would accede to NATO with this anti-Russian government and may be used as a launching off point for an invasion, which would come from the Great European Plain, the same direction that the Nazis came from back then, with a NATO and European Union alliance anchored in Germany.

02:03:52.000 It's like a pan-European 0.99

02:03:55.000 Western European alliance with potentially soon with its own military with missiles on Russia's doorstep and specifically backing this this specific regime in Ukraine which is anti-russian.

02:04:09.000 So it means something very different in the Russian consciousness than it does in the American consciousness.

02:04:15.000 It's not the same thing.

02:04:17.000 Republics, and he's afraid of nationalist movements.

02:04:19.000 He fought a war in Chechnya over this.

02:04:20.000 So I understand it, but I have a different, I'm for nationalism, for American nationalism.

02:04:23.000 So like I disagree with Putin on that, but calling him Nazis, it's like, I thought it was childish.

02:04:26.000 Well, I do believe that he believes it.

02:04:28.000 So that's so interesting.

02:04:28.000 I agree with that.

02:04:29.000 I was, cause I was listening to this because in the United States, everyone's always calling everyone else a Nazi. 0.96

02:04:32.000 You're a Nazi. 0.96

02:04:32.000 Okay. 0.96

02:04:33.000 But I was listening to this and I was like, this is the dumbest sort of not convincing line you could take. 0.96

02:04:39.000 And I sat down and listened to him talk about Nazis for like eight minutes. 0.97

02:04:41.000 And I'm like, I think he believes this.

02:04:42.000 Yeah, and I actually, you know, having had a bunch of conversations with people who are living in Russia, they also believe it.

02:04:47.000 Now, there's technicalities here, which, the word Nazi, World War II is deeply in the blood of a lot of Russians in Ukraine.

02:04:52.000 I get it, I get it.

02:04:52.000 So you're using it as almost a political term, the way it's used in the United States also, like racism and all this kind of stuff.

02:04:58.000 So you know you can really touch people if you use the Nazi name.

02:05:00.000 I think that's totally right.

02:05:01.000 But it's also, to me, a really, like, disgusting thing to do.

02:05:04.000 I agree.

02:05:04.000 Because, and also to clarify, there is neo-Nazi movements in Ukraine, which is just very small.

02:05:09.000 You're saying that there's a distinction between Nazi and Neo-Nazi?

02:05:11.000 Sure.

02:05:12.000 But it's a small percentage of the population, a tiny percentage, they have no power in government.

02:05:16.000 As far, I have seen no data to show they have any influence on Zelensky and Zelensky government at all.

02:05:22.000 So really when Putin says denazification, I think he means nationalist movements.

02:05:26.000 I think, I think you're right and I agree with everything you said and

02:05:29.000 I do think that the war, the Second World War, occupies a place in Slavic society, Polish society, you know, Central and Eastern Europe, that it does not occupy the United States.

02:05:36.000 And you can just look at the death totals, you know, tens of millions versus less than half a million.

02:05:40.000 So it's like this eliminated a lot of the male population of these countries.

02:05:42.000 So, of course, it's still resonant in those countries.

02:05:45.000 I get it.

02:05:46.000 I just I think I've watched I don't think I know I've watched the misuse of words the weaponization of words for political reasons for so long that I just I just don't like and though I do engage in it sometime I'm sorry I don't like just dismissing people in a word oh he's a Nazi he's a liberal or whatever it's like tell me what you mean what don't you like about what they're doing or saying and a Nazi especially I don't even know what the hell you're talking about what troubled me about that is because... Didn't Tucker say that?

02:06:09.000 I have a clip from Tucker where he says that if you are if you support white identity you're a Nazi 0.94

02:06:16.000 Let me pull it up. 0.67

02:06:20.000 Yeah, okay.

02:06:21.000 So let's run that back in a second.

02:06:23.000 Here's a clip from Tucker.

02:06:24.000 This is from my Telegram.

02:06:25.000 I will say this if I can just make one prediction.

02:06:27.000 So the United States is becoming non-white. 0.99

02:06:29.000 Everyone's excited about it.

02:06:30.000 Or whether you're not excited about it, it doesn't matter.

02:06:33.000 Whites are going to be in the minority. 0.98

02:06:34.000 So what that means soon, so what that means is you're going to get at some point probably in my lifetime people standing up and saying, I represent white people!

02:06:42.000 I'm the candidate of the white voter! 1.00

02:06:44.000 And I just want to say on the record that I'm going to tell that person to fuck off. 1.00

02:06:48.000 Because nobody speaks... I'm an adult man, and nobody speaks for me because he shares the same skin color as me. 1.00

02:06:55.000 Like, I just reject that entire idea.

02:06:57.000 If I agree with you, I'll let you speak for me, and if I don't, I won't.

02:07:02.000 But this idea that someone of a certain skin color, any skin color, or any ethnic background, speaks automatically on behalf of all people who share that skin color, ethnic background, is a Nazi idea, and I'm totally opposed to it.

02:07:13.000 And I will be opposed to it when it happens

02:07:16.000 So that's a Nazi idea. 0.88

02:07:17.000 White identity politics is a Nazi... Oh, actually, here it is on Twitter.

02:07:20.000 I didn't know I had a link here.

02:07:21.000 Okay, so that doesn't exist.

02:07:44.000 Seriously?

02:07:46.000 Okay, so I guess that tweet isn't available or am I just rate limited?

02:07:52.000 Okay, well, that account doesn't exist anymore.

02:07:55.000 Well, whatever.

02:07:59.000 Okay, well, yeah, anyway, we got the clip.

02:08:05.000 It's with Adam Carolla.

02:08:06.000 Let me see if I could actually just pull it up.

02:08:12.000 speaking of that yeah get it on got to get on a choice maybe on a mandate get it on in a very unique show where tucker carlson's you know in a sort of related subject and there's a few i have so many points and so little time but

02:08:34.000 I mean, the endless attacks on the whites, and I'm not defending white, there are plenty of, in fact, most people who annoy me are white, okay? 0.99

02:08:42.000 But to attack any group as a group, you can hardly believe it, as someone who core lessons Old Crow and the Sceptery, but everyone's too, in the, this, everyone's, the basis, in a group, is, in fact, most people who annoy me are white shits. 1.00

02:08:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:08:54.000 Right. 1.00

02:08:55.000 It's, it's jokes.

02:08:57.000 Okay, where's this, where's this clip?

02:09:00.000 Yeah, they also think that a prince can ever attack me.

02:09:05.000 I don't think they're embarrassing.

02:09:06.000 I think they're not. 0.99

02:09:08.000 I'm fucking some and punishing them, others, punishing others, and they're calling me a Nazi. 1.00

02:09:12.000 Really? 1.00

02:09:13.000 Okay.

02:09:14.000 Um, so like, they have no power over me whatsoever.

02:09:16.000 None.

02:09:17.000 No, I, I agree.

02:09:18.000 But it's interesting that you are a caricature, a sort of cartoon caricature.

02:09:25.000 I can't get the trans, usually transcripts right here. 0.99

02:09:28.000 They don't have it.

02:09:30.000 Well, whatever.

02:09:31.000 You heard the clip.

02:09:32.000 We played it.

02:09:33.000 I just can't find it in this interview here.

02:09:35.000 Would it be maybe... Where would it be?

02:09:42.000 Here we go. 1.00

02:09:43.000 Telling him what red shits put kids of black in him over me. 1.00

02:09:48.000 I love that though. 1.00

02:09:49.000 Not to speak for me because we look the same, period.

02:09:52.000 Well, of a certain skin color, any skin color or any ethnic background speaks automatically on behalf of all people who share that skin color, ethnic background is a Nazi idea. 0.53

02:10:01.000 And I'm totally opposed to it.

02:10:03.000 And I will be opposed to it when it happens to me, when some, and this will happen.

02:10:07.000 Someone's going to go, Oh, white people.

02:10:10.000 And I'll be like, I don't even know you, dude. 0.99

02:10:12.000 I don't even know you, I refuse to allow you to- So if you do white identity, you're a Nazi! 0.95

02:10:17.000 What about, what did you just say here?

02:10:19.000 I think I've watched, I don't think I know, I've watched the misuse of words, the weaponization of words for political reasons for so long that I just, I just don't like, though I do engage in it sometimes, I'm sorry, I don't like just dismissing people in a word, oh he's a Nazi, he's a liberal or whatever, it's like tell me what you mean, what don't you like about what they're doing or saying?

02:10:35.000 And, and Nazi especially, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

02:10:37.000 What troubled me about that is because he said that that's the primary objective currently for the war and that because it's Not grounded in reality.

02:10:44.000 It makes it difficult to then negotiate peace because like what?

02:10:48.000 What does it mean to get rid of the Nazis in Ukraine?

02:10:49.000 So like he'll come to the table and say well, okay I will agree to do ceasefire once the Nazis are gone.

02:10:54.000 Okay, so can you list the Nazis?

02:10:55.000 Plus can you negotiate with a Nazi? 0.63

02:10:57.000 Right, exactly.

02:10:58.000 I totally agree with you.

02:10:59.000 It was very strange, but maybe it was perhaps had to do with speaking to his own population and also probably trying to avoid the use of the word NATO as the justification.

02:11:07.000 Yes, that's all.

02:11:08.000 Of course, I don't know, but I suspect you're right on both counts. 0.99

02:11:10.000 But I would say it points to something that I've thought more and more since I did that interview, which was like two weeks ago, I guess.

02:11:16.000 I didn't think he was, like, as a PR guy, not very good.

02:11:18.000 Like, he's not good at telling his own story.

02:11:20.000 You know, the story of the current war in Ukraine is the eastward expansion of NATO, scaring the shit out of the Russians, with NATO expansion, which is totally unnecessary, doesn't help the United States, NATO itself doesn't help the United States, and so I'm not pro-Russian for saying that, I'm pro-American for saying that, and I think that's a really compelling story, because it's true. 0.99

02:11:33.000 He did not tell that story.

02:11:34.000 He told some other story that I didn't fully understand.

02:11:35.000 Again, I'm not Russian.

02:11:36.000 He's speaking to multiple audiences around the world.

02:11:38.000 I'm not sure what he hoped to achieve by that interview.

02:11:40.000 I will never know.

02:11:41.000 But I did think that, like, this guy is not good at telling his story.

02:11:44.000 And I also think, honestly, on the basis of what, I mean, I know this.

02:11:47.000 Very isolated during COVID.

02:11:48.000 Very.

02:11:50.000 We keep hearing that he's dying of this or that disease.

02:11:52.000 He's got ALS.

02:11:52.000 I mean, I don't know.

02:11:53.000 I'm not his doctor.

02:11:54.000 There's a ton of lying about it.

02:11:55.000 I know that.

02:11:55.000 But one thing that's not a lie is that he was cloistered away during COVID.

02:11:59.000 I know this.

02:12:00.000 And only dealing with two or three people.

02:12:02.000 And that makes you weird.

02:12:03.000 It's so important to deal with a lot of people, to have your views challenged.

02:12:05.000 You see this with leaders who stay in power too long.

02:12:07.000 It's been in power 24 years, effectively.

02:12:09.000 You don't know.

02:12:10.000 You know, there have been upsides, I think, for Russia, the Russian economy, Russian life expectancy, but there are definitely downsides.

02:12:14.000 And one of them is you get weird.

02:12:16.000 And you get autocratic.

02:12:18.000 You know, like, this is why we have term limits.

02:12:19.000 Very few kings don't get crazy in old age.

02:12:22.000 Yeah, and you said some of this also in your post-Kremlin discussion while you're in Moscow still, which was very impressive to me that you can just openly criticize.

02:12:29.000 This is great.

02:12:30.000 I don't care.

02:12:31.000 I understand this.

02:12:31.000 I just wish you did some more of that also with the supermarket video and perhaps some more of that with Putin in front of you.

02:12:36.000 Putin in front of me?

02:12:38.000 I'm such a good person.

02:12:38.000 I know you see it as virtue signaling.

02:12:40.000 Yeah, it is.

02:12:41.000 Have you seen some of the interview he did with some NBC News child?

02:12:43.000 Yes, I understand.

02:12:44.000 So I think you're just so annoyed by how bad journalists are that you just didn't want to be them.

02:12:49.000 Yeah, that's probably right, actually.

02:12:50.000 Some great conversations will involve some challenging... Like, you were confused about denazification.

02:12:55.000 Well, first of all, I accept your criticism, and I accept it as true, that in some way I'm probably pivoting against what I dislike.

02:13:02.000 And I have such contempt for American journalists on the basis of so much knowledge that I probably was like, I don't want to be like that.

02:13:06.000 Fair. 1.00

02:13:07.000 That is a kind of defensiveness, and dumb. 0.99

02:13:09.000 So... 0.99

02:13:09.000 You're right. 0.99

02:13:11.000 As for the Nazi thing, I was like, I really felt like we were just speaking so far past each other that we would never like come to, it's like, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

02:13:18.000 And that, and especially when I decided or concluded that he really meant it, I was like, that's just too freaking weird to me.

02:13:23.000 It's almost like, yeah, I can think of many other examples where you're interviewing someone, they'll say something that's like, I was interviewing a guy one time and he started talking about the black Israelites.

02:13:31.000 We're the real Jews.

02:13:32.000 And I was like, you know,

02:13:33.000 You mentioned there's a bunch of conspiracy theories about Putin's health.

02:13:36.000 How was he in person?

02:13:37.000 Like, what did he feel like?

02:13:38.000 Did he look healthy?

02:13:49.000 So, I mean, I can easily gain 30 pounds and not know it.

02:13:50.000 So, like, I'm probably not a great person to ask, but no, he seemed fine.

02:13:53.000 He seemed, um, he had his arm hooked through a chair, and I heard people say he's got Parkinson's, and, um, Parkinson's can be controlled, I know, uh, for periods with drugs.

02:14:00.000 So, it's, it's hard to assess.

02:14:02.000 I'm just not, uh, one of the tells of Parkinson's is gait, you know, how a person walks, I think, and his walking seemed fine.

02:14:07.000 I walked around with him and talked to him off camera.

02:14:09.000 Um, his, he's had some work done, for sure.

02:14:11.000 I mean, 71 or two.

02:14:12.000 Lessons, you mean, like, visual purposes?

02:14:14.000 Yeah, I'm 54.

02:14:14.000 He's, like, almost 20 years older than me.

02:14:15.000 He looked younger than me.

02:14:16.000 What was that like, the conversation off camera, like you walking around with him?

02:14:19.000 What was the content of the conversation?

02:14:21.000 I mean, I can't, you know, I feel bad even booting anybody, like, talking about stuff that is off the record, but...

02:14:26.000 I'll just say that when I said that he didn't want to fight with NATO or with the U.S.

02:14:30.000 State Department or with Joe Biden because he wants a settlement, that's a very informed perspective.

02:14:37.000 He doesn't.

02:14:39.000 Say whatever you want about that, believe it or not, but that is true. 0.93

02:14:42.000 So he's open for peace.

02:14:45.000 For peace and negotiation.

02:14:47.000 Russia tried to join NATO in 2000.

02:14:49.000 That's a fact, okay?

02:14:51.000 They tried to join NATO.

02:14:52.000 So just think about this.

02:14:53.000 NATO exists to keep Russia contained. 0.54

02:14:54.000 It exists as a bulwark against Russian territorial expansion.

02:14:58.000 And whether or not Russia has any territorial ambitions is another question.

02:15:02.000 Like, why would it?

02:15:02.000 It's the largest landmass in the world.

02:15:03.000 Whatever.

02:15:04.000 But that's why it exists.

02:15:05.000 So if Russia seeks to join NATO, it is by definition a sign that NATO's job is done here.

02:15:09.000 We can declare victory and go home.

02:15:12.000 The fact that they turned him down is so shocking to me, but it's true. 1.00

02:15:15.000 Then he approaches the next president, George W. Bush, that was with Bill Clinton at the end of his term in 2000.

02:15:18.000 He approaches the next president and said, let's, in our next missile deal, let's align on this, and we'll designate Iran as our common enemy. 0.90

02:15:24.000 Iran, which is now effectively in league with Russia, thanks to our insane policies. 0.92

02:15:29.000 And George W. Bush, to his credit, is like, well, that seems like kind of an innovative good idea. 0.89

02:15:33.000 And Condi Rice, who's like one of the stupidest people ever to hold power in the United States, if I can say, who's like monomaniacally anti-Russia, because she had an advisor at Stanford who was, or something, during the Cold War. 0.99

02:15:40.000 No, we can't do that, and Bush is just weak. 0.87

02:15:42.000 Who is their advisor that's in because Stan when you hear Stanford Stanford's a big red flag, like I said with that other guy before Who is your mentor I'm curious now Rice was hired as an assistant professor Does it say

02:16:10.000 She plays the flute, right, or the piano.

02:16:13.000 Majored in music.

02:16:16.000 Attended an international politics course taught by Joseph Korbel, who sparked her interest in Soviet Union and international relations.

02:16:22.000 Described him as a central figure in her life.

02:16:26.000 Well, who's this guy?

02:16:27.000 Let's check the early life.

02:16:29.000 Joseph Korbel is a Czech-American diplomat, political scientist, served as Czechoslovakia's ambassador to Yugoslavia.

02:16:38.000 Became a professor of international politics at University of Denver, where he founded the Graduate School of International Studies.

02:16:44.000 His daughter, Madeline Albright, uh oh, served as Secretary of State under Bill Clinton, and he was the mentor of Condoleezza Rice.

02:16:52.000 His granddaughter, Alice Albright, is the CEO of the Millennium Challenge Corporation under Joe Biden.

02:17:00.000 He was born under the family name Korbel to Czech Jewish parents, Arnost, Olga, Korbel.

02:17:06.000 Both of them were killed in the Holocaust. 0.80

02:17:10.000 Ah, so there's another one.

02:17:13.000 You know, it's so funny because I have, I'll show you this.

02:17:16.000 Let me jump off camera here for a second.

02:17:24.000 So I'm working on a project about the neocons.

02:17:28.000 And I have all these books about the neocons.

02:17:34.000 So this is Neoconservatism by Justin Vace.

02:17:38.000 Vanishing Tradition, edited by Paul Gottfried.

02:17:43.000 Twilight of the American Enlightenment, George Marsden.

02:17:48.000 The Great Purge.

02:17:49.000 This was edited by Richard Spencer, I think.

02:17:53.000 Neoconservative revolution, Murray Friedman.

02:17:57.000 Rise of the Vulcans. 0.63

02:18:00.000 By James Mann and Conservatism in America, Paul Godfrey.

02:18:05.000 And it's like in this one, it talks about the Vulcans and the Vulcans, they say, are this group of foreign policy experts.

02:18:13.000 They're on Bush's war cabinet.

02:18:15.000 It goes through and it profiles all of them.

02:18:17.000 And it talks about how the main ones... It's in my other notepad.

02:18:22.000 The main ones are...

02:18:28.000 It doesn't talk too much about the Clean Break authors, doesn't talk too much about the Jewish ones, but in a lot of these it says, oh, well, you know, some of them were Jewish, and some of them were this, and, you know, but a lot of them weren't, you know, but Dick Cheney wasn't Jewish, and George Bush wasn't Jewish, and, and Condoleezza Rice wasn't Jewish, but then you go and find, well, even the ones that aren't Jewish, they're mentored by

02:18:52.000 Someone Jewish.

02:18:53.000 They're mentored.

02:18:53.000 You know, Madeline Albright's dad is this guy.

02:18:56.000 I didn't even know that.

02:18:58.000 And Condoleezza Rice's mentor was this guy.

02:19:05.000 Let's see.

02:19:07.000 His parents.

02:19:09.000 Blah blah blah.

02:19:14.000 Served as a diplomat in the government of Czechoslovakia.

02:19:17.000 His politics in Judaism forced him to flee with his wife and baby Madeline after the Nazi invasion.

02:19:23.000 Moved to London.

02:19:25.000 Served as an advisor to Edward Benet in the Czech government.

02:19:29.000 He gave speeches for the BBC's daily broadcast.

02:19:33.000 The Korbels converted to Catholicism.

02:19:36.000 Oh, did they?

02:19:38.000 Returned to Czechoslovakia after the war.

02:19:44.000 Following the Communist Party's rise to power, he applied for political asylum in the United States.

02:19:50.000 He received asylum and a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation.

02:19:54.000 Well, well, well.

02:19:55.000 Remember how Alex Jones is always trying to say, Oh, it's the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie's.

02:20:01.000 So the Rockefeller Foundation is bringing Jewish neocons to found international relations schools at our universities. 0.74

02:20:12.000 With the benefaction of Ben Sherrington.

02:20:15.000 Established a graduate school.

02:20:16.000 I wonder who this is, though.

02:20:17.000 That'd be kind of interesting to see.

02:20:21.000 Well, it's not a baseball player.

02:20:28.000 Is it this guy?

02:20:31.000 Yeah, it would have to be.

02:20:33.000 Well, this guy's white.

02:20:43.000 Very interesting.

02:20:48.000 Doesn't say too much about his, um, his beliefs though.

02:21:00.000 So that's funny.

02:21:01.000 So Tucker Carlson's woke.

02:21:04.000 So he clearly knows what's up.

02:21:05.000 He says, oh, she had this mentor.

02:21:14.000 Very interesting.

02:21:15.000 So Tucker's hip.

02:21:16.000 Tucker knows.

02:21:18.000 Well, maybe he knows something.

02:21:21.000 Hmm.

02:21:45.000 I didn't too much, though, about his, uh, profile. 0.75

02:21:49.000 Anyway... And so he agreed, it's like, anti-innovative, good idea, and Condi Rice, who's like, one of the stupidest people ever to hold power in the United States, if I can say, who's like, monomaniacally anti-Russia, because she had an advisor at Stanford who was, or something, during the Cold War, no, we can't do that, and Bush is just weak, and so he agreed, it's like, what? 0.97

02:22:02.000 That is crazy!

02:22:04.000 If you're fighting with someone, and the person says, you know what, actually, our interests align, and you've spent 80% of your mental disk space on hating me and opposing me and whatever, but actually, we can be on the same team,

02:22:12.000 If you don't, at least, see that as progress?

02:22:14.000 Like, what?

02:22:15.000 Why would you?

02:22:16.000 If your interest is in helping your country, what would be the... What's the counter-argument?

02:22:20.000 I don't even understand it.

02:22:21.000 And no one has even addressed any of this.

02:22:23.000 The war of Russian aggression!

02:22:24.000 Yeah, it was a war of Russian aggression, for sure.

02:22:26.000 But how did... How did we get there?

02:22:27.000 We got there because Joe Biden and Tony Blinken dispatched Kamala Harris, who does not freelance this stuff, okay?

02:22:32.000 Fair to say?

02:22:33.000 To the Munich Security Conference two years ago this month, February 2022, and said, in a press conference, to Zelensky, poor Zelensky,

02:22:39.000 We want you to join NATO.

02:22:40.000 This was not in a backroom thing, this was in public, at a press conference.

02:22:43.000 Knowing, because he said it like 4,000 times, we don't want nuclear weapons from the United States or NATO on our western border.

02:22:50.000 Duh.

02:22:51.000 And days later, he invaded.

02:22:53.000 So like, what is that?

02:22:55.000 And if you even, I raised that question at my previous job.

02:22:57.000 And I was denounced as, of course, a traitor or something.

02:22:59.000 But okay, great, I'm a traitor.

02:23:00.000 What's the answer?

02:23:02.000 What's the answer? 0.95

02:23:02.000 These are not, you know, Toria Nuland, who I know, not dumb. 0.95

02:23:05.000 Hasn't helped the U.S. 0.70

02:23:06.000 in any way.

02:23:06.000 Architect of the Iraq war.

02:23:07.000 Architect of this disaster.

02:23:08.000 One of the people who destroyed the U.S.

02:23:09.000 dollar.

02:23:09.000 Okay, fine.

02:23:10.000 But you're not stupid. 0.99

02:23:11.000 So, like, you're trying to get a war by acting that way. 0.99

02:23:13.000 What's the other explanation?

02:23:15.000 By the way, NATO didn't want Ukraine because it didn't meet the criteria.

02:23:18.000 So, for admission, so why would you say that?

02:23:20.000 Because you want a war. 0.56

02:23:21.000 That's why.

02:23:22.000 And that war has enriched a lot of people to the tune of billions.

02:23:25.000 So, I don't care if I sound like some kind of left-wing conspiracy nut because I'm neither left-wing nor a conspiracy nut.

02:23:30.000 Tell me how I'm wrong.

02:23:31.000 Who do you think is behind it?

02:23:32.000 If you were to analyze, like, zoom out, looking at the entirety of human history, the military-industrial complex, you said Kamala Harris.

02:23:38.000 Is it individuals?

02:23:39.000 Is it, like, this collective flock that people are just pro-war as a collective?

02:23:43.000 It's the hive mind.

02:23:44.000 It's, and I, you know, spent my whole life in D.C.

02:23:46.000 from 85 to 2020, so 35 years.

02:23:48.000 And again, I grew up around it in that world.

02:23:50.000 And I do think that conspiracies, of course, there are conspiracies, but in general, the hive mind is responsible for the worst decisions.

02:23:56.000 It's a bunch of people with the same views,

02:23:58.000 A hive mind? 0.55

02:23:59.000 Hang on a second.

02:24:00.000 Hang on.

02:24:00.000 This is very important.

02:24:02.000 Who is behind it?

02:24:03.000 That is the operative question!

02:24:05.000 Who?

02:24:05.000 Names.

02:24:05.000 Profile.

02:24:06.000 Who are they?

02:24:24.000 Looking at the entirety of human history.

02:24:25.000 Answer!

02:24:26.000 The military-industrial complex.

02:24:27.000 You said Kamala Harris.

02:24:28.000 Is it individuals?

02:24:29.000 Is it like this collective flock that people are just pro-war as a collective?

02:24:33.000 It's the hive mind.

02:24:34.000 It's, and I, you know, spent my whole life in D.C.

02:24:36.000 from 85 to 2020, so 35 years.

02:24:37.000 Hive mind.

02:24:38.000 And again, I grew up around it in that world.

02:24:40.000 And I do think that conspiracies, of course there are conspiracies, but in general the hive mind is responsible for the worst decisions.

02:24:47.000 It's the hive mind.

02:24:48.000 That sounds like when Chris Rufo was asked the same thing.

02:24:52.000 I wonder, do I have that clip on my telegram?

02:24:55.000 It's the hive mind.

02:24:57.000 There was a time when Rufo and Jordan Peterson and them, they all had their own answer for, you know, who is responsible?

02:25:03.000 Who is behind it?

02:25:05.000 And Rufo said something like, oh, it's, you know, wokeism is like a car.

02:25:09.000 And, you know, this is the engine and these are the tires.

02:25:11.000 And Jordan Peterson had an answer.

02:25:13.000 I wonder if I have that clip anywhere. 0.99

02:25:20.000 Damn. 0.99

02:25:20.000 Someone get that for me. 0.99

02:25:21.000 Someone get that for me now! 1.00

02:25:24.000 RufoWokeism... Damn, where is it? 0.99

02:25:38.000 Matt Walsh, there was like a little symposium where Matt Walsh, Jordan Peterson, and Chris Ruffa, they were all basically asked the same question, which is, who? 0.99

02:25:46.000 And they all gave this convoluted answer.

02:25:49.000 Jordan Peterson said something like, it's a decentralized something that inhabits a multitude.

02:25:54.000 That temporarily inhabits a multitude.

02:26:04.000 And every answer, each one was more convoluted than the other.

02:26:08.000 I don't know if that was when I was on Twitter, so it's not on my Telegram.

02:26:24.000 You know what, it's probably in my Google Docs somewhere.

02:26:45.000 Oh Keith just tagged me maybe he has it Whoops get out of here.

02:26:53.000 Okay Here we go, here we go, here's the post Thank You Keith Keith is such a W dude the bro the Brody

02:27:06.000 All right, this is, uh... Oh, I'm blocked!

02:27:08.000 I'm blocked on... Okay.

02:27:11.000 I'm blocked on this account. 0.99

02:27:13.000 Damn it! 0.98

02:27:15.000 Can I archive it? 0.99

02:27:16.000 I'm gonna have to... Oh, but you know what?

02:27:17.000 I think the archive is probably... They probably prevented it from data scraping.

02:27:22.000 Oh, no.

02:27:23.000 Here we go.

02:27:24.000 Here we go.

02:27:24.000 We got it.

02:27:25.000 Here we go.

02:27:26.000 Thank you, Internet Archive, because otherwise we'd just be screwed by Elon here.

02:27:32.000 So...

02:27:35.000 That's funny.

02:27:36.000 Oops! 0.78

02:27:37.000 Guess I'm blocked by everybody on the Grimace Shake account.

02:27:43.000 Where's the original?

02:27:44.000 We can't get the original.

02:27:45.000 We can't get this video.

02:27:48.000 I wish someone had the video, but I don't have this post.

02:27:52.000 But Jordan Peterson says something like, oh, it inhabits a multitude, and then James Lindsay says, think of it like a car.

02:28:01.000 Jordan Peterson.

02:28:02.000 James Lindsay.

02:28:25.000 The world, or God, demands that you constantly... Dude, why does the transcript... Why is there no transcripts on any of these?

02:28:31.000 Or did they... Is it down here?

02:28:33.000 Oh, here it is.

02:28:35.000 Used to be here.

02:28:41.000 There's a system of ideas that's an animating, that's a set of animating principles.

02:28:45.000 Sure.

02:28:45.000 Right?

02:28:46.000 And it partially inhabits a multitude of people.

02:28:49.000 Well, I think there are two answers.

02:28:52.000 What did Yarvin say?

02:28:53.000 Yarvin said something.

02:28:54.000 Do you ever notice they all say the same thing when they're asked?

02:28:57.000 Uh oh.

02:28:58.000 I don't know what this is.

02:28:59.000 But I don't know what that is though.

02:29:05.000 This has put a lot of blood on my hands.

02:29:12.000 You'll find many who will answer no to the first question, but there are ways of giving.

02:29:18.000 There's no way that could happen.

02:29:20.000 Climate scientists. 1.00

02:29:20.000 Fucking Yarvin, dude. 1.00

02:29:22.000 Do I get, uh... Come on, give me the clip, though. 0.97

02:29:25.000 When they don't put the transcript, that makes it very difficult to scrub through.

02:29:31.000 Sound only.

02:29:36.000 Welcome to Tucker Carlson today.

02:29:37.000 It wasn't that long ago that the United States had an entire class of people known as, as I've sometimes called it, you know, because when I actually look at, you know, what the Vatican is, or in this case, the swamp, the deep state, the cathedral, as I've sometimes called it, you know, the sort of the oligarchic power structure of

02:29:57.000 So let's see.

02:30:25.000 So let's just put these, this may be tedious.

02:30:28.000 Maybe some of you find this tedious.

02:30:32.000 But trust, okay?

02:30:33.000 This is good stuff.

02:30:36.000 Gotta get rid of these timestamps though.

02:30:40.000 Because they're all connected and they all say the same thing.

02:30:45.000 That's what makes me different.

02:30:46.000 That's what makes me special.

02:30:48.000 That's what makes me the special boy.

02:30:50.000 This is Curtis Yarvin.

02:30:52.000 Oops, not Tarvin.

02:30:53.000 Curtis Yarvin.

02:30:55.000 Okay, this is Curtis Yarvin.

02:30:58.000 This is James Lindsay.

02:31:06.000 And, uh, where's Jordan Peterson?

02:31:18.000 Okay.

02:31:21.000 I hate this font, but this is what we got, okay?

02:31:28.000 So I think there was supposed to be one more from that period, like that same week, that said something very similar, but these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

02:31:37.000 Can I make this bigger?

02:31:38.000 There we go.

02:31:42.000 Okay.

02:31:43.000 So Yarvin... This is Curtis Yarvin, who's a pretty big deal, and let's just also...

02:31:51.000 Curtis Yarvin says, I actually look at what the Vatican is, or in this case,

02:32:08.000 The swamp, the deep state is the cathedral, as I've sometimes called it, you know, the sort of oligarchic power structure of America, which is completely decentralized.

02:32:19.000 There's no center.

02:32:21.000 Decentralized, there's no center anywhere.

02:32:23.000 There's like, there's no one you can point to, there's no race or class, a little meeting, there's no protocols about the Zion, there's no conspiracy.

02:32:30.000 It's completely decentralized.

02:32:32.000 That's Courtesy Arvin's take on this question.

02:32:36.000 James Lindsay says, think of it like a car.

02:32:39.000 There's an engine, but the tires make it move.

02:32:41.000 The tires are the diffuse they.

02:32:43.000 The World Economic Forum is the transmission.

02:32:46.000 The UN, IMF, WHO, and others are the drivetrain and the chassis.

02:32:50.000 Who's the engine?

02:32:51.000 Well, you know, we have guesses.

02:32:53.000 And then you have Jordan Peterson.

02:32:56.000 There's this, there's a system of ideas that's animated, that's a set of animating principles, right?

02:33:02.000 And it partially inhabits a multitude of people.

02:33:07.000 Okay, and then now you got Tucker.

02:33:11.000 Uh, it's nobody.

02:33:13.000 People with the same views.

02:33:14.000 That's the hive mind. 0.99

02:33:17.000 And I do think that conspiracies, of course there are conspiracies, but in general the hive mind is responsible for the worst decisions.

02:33:23.000 It's a bunch of people with the same views.

02:33:25.000 Totally, you know, views have not been updated in decades.

02:33:28.000 Putin said something

02:33:30.000 That I thought was absolutely true.

02:33:31.000 I don't know how he would know this, but it is true because I lived among them.

02:33:34.000 So the Soviet Union dissolves in August of 91, on my honeymoon in Bermuda.

02:33:37.000 I'll never forget it.

02:33:38.000 And it was a big thing, you know?

02:33:39.000 If you lived in D.C.

02:33:40.000 I mean, the receptionist in my office in 1991 was getting a master's in Russian from Georgetown.

02:33:44.000 He was going to be a Sovietologist.

02:33:46.000 And he was among, you know, thousands of people in Washington on that same track.

02:33:48.000 And so the Soviet Union collapses.

02:33:49.000 Well, so does the rationale for like, you know, a good portion of the U.S.

02:33:51.000 government has been

02:33:53.000 Dedicated for over 40 years to opposing this thing that no longer exists.

02:33:56.000 So there's a lot of forward momentum.

02:33:57.000 There's a huge amount of money, the bulk of the money, in the richest country in the world, aimed in this direction.

02:34:00.000 It's very hard for people to readjust, to reassess.

02:34:03.000 And you see this in life all the time.

02:34:05.000 You know, I love my wife.

02:34:06.000 All of a sudden she ran off with my best friend. 1.00

02:34:08.000 Holy shit! 1.00

02:34:08.000 I didn't expect that this morning. 1.00

02:34:09.000 Now it's a reality.

02:34:10.000 Like, how do I deal with that?

02:34:10.000 Well, you know, I got stage four cancer diagnosis.

02:34:13.000 Okay?

02:34:13.000 And it's all bad, but I'm just saying, like, that's the nature of life.

02:34:16.000 Things you did not anticipate, never thought you'd have to face, happen out of nowhere.

02:34:19.000 And you have to adjust your expectations and your goals.

02:34:21.000 And people have a hard time with that.

02:34:22.000 Very hard time with that.

02:34:23.000 So, that's a lot of it.

02:34:25.000 You know, if you're Condi Rice... So, yeah, let me just... So this is the Tucker.

02:34:30.000 And then this is the Tucker.

02:34:32.000 In general, the hive mind is responsible for the worst decisions.

02:34:35.000 It's a bunch of people with the same views.

02:34:42.000 Okay, so who's responsible?

02:34:45.000 The answer is nobody.

02:34:50.000 Nobody's responsible.

02:34:51.000 According to Curtis Yarvin, by the way, can everybody see this right?

02:34:56.000 Okay, Curtis Yarvin says... Can I make it bold?

02:35:05.000 Oligarch it's a decentralized.

02:35:08.000 Oh, it's already bold, isn't it?

02:35:10.000 No, why can't I make this bold?

02:35:18.000 Bruh.

02:35:19.000 Okay, anyway.

02:35:21.000 So he says it's an oligarchic power structure that is decentralized.

02:35:26.000 James Lindsay, well, it's like a car.

02:35:29.000 Jordan Peterson, it's a system of ideas that partially inhabits a multitude of people.

02:35:34.000 Tucker Carlson, it's the hive mind.

02:35:37.000 It's a bunch of people with the same views.

02:35:39.000 Really?

02:35:42.000 Well, what are the views that they have?

02:35:43.000 Condoleezza Rice is mentor.

02:35:45.000 Who is also the father of Madeleine Albright.

02:35:47.000 What are his views?

02:35:48.000 What kind of a person is he?

02:35:50.000 Is he decentralized?

02:35:54.000 Does he not have a particular race?

02:35:56.000 Yeah, but they all have the same answer regardless.

02:36:01.000 You know, James Lindsay, he's his own kind of spook.

02:36:05.000 Jordan Peterson works for Daily Wire.

02:36:09.000 Curtis Yarvin is what he is.

02:36:12.000 But they all have the same answer to this question, which is kind of like the central question.

02:36:17.000 And they all have the same answer to it, which is nobody.

02:36:21.000 We don't know.

02:36:22.000 It's decentralized.

02:36:24.000 It's a multitude.

02:36:25.000 It's a principle.

02:36:27.000 It's a car.

02:36:29.000 Sort of like highly ambitious midwit who gets this degree from Stanford and your whole life like thinking that Russia is the center of evil in the world. 0.95

02:36:39.000 It's kind of hard to be like, well, actually there's a new threat and it's coming from farther east.

02:36:42.000 It's primarily an economic threat.

02:36:44.000 And maybe all the threats aren't reduced to tank battles.

02:36:46.000 That's the other thing.

02:36:47.000 Oh, here we go.

02:36:47.000 Here's the Jordan Peterson clip.

02:36:49.000 In a way, there's no they. 0.99

02:36:50.000 There's a system of ideas that's a set of animating principles.

02:36:55.000 Sure.

02:36:55.000 Right?

02:36:56.000 And it partially inhabits a multitude of people.

02:36:59.000 Well, I think there are two answers to this.

02:37:02.000 There's a very diffuse they.

02:37:03.000 If we say the woke, we generally know that we're speaking about people who think in certain ways, that they've adopted some of this power analysis.

02:37:10.000 But it's very diffuse.

02:37:12.000 And maybe it's only a small amount.

02:37:13.000 Maybe it's a great amount.

02:37:14.000 Maybe it's on this issue and not... But then there are the people who pay for it.

02:37:18.000 And I mean with large sums of money.

02:37:19.000 They're a very distinct they.

02:37:22.000 Somebody has decided to pour the gasoline into this fire.

02:37:27.000 And they decided... Do you think that they have any sense?

02:37:31.000 They again?

02:37:32.000 These people?

02:37:33.000 I think they know exactly what they're doing with it.

02:37:35.000 Yeah, there you go.

02:37:43.000 Is he at Manhattan or is it Rufo?

02:37:47.000 I guess it must be Chris Rufo, right?

02:37:57.000 Yeah, he's at the Manhattan Institute, which comes from Roger Hurtog, I'm pretty sure.

02:38:03.000 Paul Singer and Hurtog.

02:38:06.000 Paul Singer, who's, you guessed it,

02:38:12.000 You guessed it!

02:38:34.000 So you actually mentioned this, it's not just the Cold War, it's World War II that populates most of their thinking in Washington.

02:38:40.000 You mentioned Churchill, Chamberlain, and Hitler, and they're kind of seeing the World War II as kind of the good war, and the successful role the United States played in that war.

02:38:48.000 They're kind of seeing that dynamic, that geopolitical dynamic, and applying it everywhere else still.

02:38:55.000 Yeah, it's a template for everything.

02:38:57.000 And I think it's of huge significance to the development of the West, to the civilization we live in now, to world history.

02:39:02.000 It was a world war.

02:39:03.000 And so I think it's worth knowing a lot about, and being honest about, and all the rest.

02:39:07.000 But it's hardly the sum total of human history.

02:39:09.000 It's a snapshot.

02:39:10.000 And so you keep hearing people refer to not even the war.

02:39:13.000 No one ever talks about the war.

02:39:15.000 How much does Tony Blinken know about the Battle of Stalingrad?

02:39:17.000 Probably zero.

02:39:17.000 He doesn't know anything.

02:39:18.000 Largest battle in human history.

02:39:19.000 But everybody knows nothing.

02:39:20.000 The Holocaust! 0.90

02:39:21.000 That's crazy!

02:39:22.000 Uh, yeah, Antony Blinken, a Jew. 1.00

02:39:24.000 He knows about the cliches about Neville Chamberlain.

02:39:27.000 No, I think he knows about the Holocaust.

02:39:29.000 I wonder, does he have, like, Holocaust relatives or something?

02:39:48.000 It's funny when he, because he's actually on the money when he says it's important to know World War II because they're obsessed with it and they don't even really know about the war, but they know about something else.

02:39:59.000 That is very critical to understand.

02:40:01.000 Does Tony Blinken have any Holocaust?

02:40:05.000 Is he a Holocaust American?

02:40:09.000 Yep, wouldn't you know.

02:40:11.000 Our Secretary of State.

02:40:13.000 ...told the story of his stepfather, the only member of his family to survive the Holocaust.

02:40:18.000 Yeah, somehow I don't think he's obsessed with the Neville Chamberlain thing, per se.

02:40:25.000 There's a different aspect of World War II he's obsessed with.

02:40:28.000 Weird, the weird ones were like, have no life.

02:40:29.000 The same thing, by the way, that probably Susan, or Catalisa Rice's mentor's obsessed with.

02:40:37.000 Other than, like, starting more wars.

02:40:39.000 Probably.

02:40:40.000 Everything to them, the most vulnerable, I would say, among them, emotionally, psychologically vulnerable, the toughest, they will always say the same thing.

02:40:47.000 And it appeals to Republican voters, unfortunately, that every problem is the result of weakness.

02:40:50.000 Everyone's Chamberlain.

02:40:51.000 Like, Germany never would have gone into Poland and Czechoslovakia if England had been stronger.

02:40:55.000 That's the argument.

02:40:56.000 Is that true?

02:40:56.000 I don't know, actually.

02:40:57.000 Maybe.

02:40:58.000 It might be totally true.

02:40:58.000 It might not be true at all.

02:40:59.000 I really don't know.

02:41:00.000 But not everything is that.

02:41:02.000 That's not always true.

02:41:03.000 If I go up to you in a bar and I say, I hate your necktie,

02:41:05.000 I'm being pretty aggressive with you, pretty strong. 1.00

02:41:06.000 You might beat the shit out of me, actually, or shoot me if I do that. 0.99

02:41:08.000 Like, an aggressive posture doesn't always get you the outcome that you want. 0.99

02:41:11.000 Sometimes it requires a more sophisticated Mediterranean posture.

02:41:13.000 I mean, it kind of depends.

02:41:14.000 It's a time and place thing.

02:41:15.000 And, uh, they don't acknowledge that.

02:41:17.000 It's like everything is this same template.

02:41:18.000 And I just, that's not a, the road to good decision making at all.

02:41:21.000 Since we're on the time period, let me ask you a kind of almost cliche question, but it applies to you.

02:41:25.000 But you've interviewed a lot of world leaders.

02:41:26.000 Yep.

02:41:26.000 If you had the chance to interview Hitler in 39, 40, 41,

02:41:32.000 First of all, would you do it?

02:41:33.000 And how would you do it?

02:41:33.000 I assume you would do it.

02:41:35.000 I love how he does... He takes a little breath and he goes... He fears.

02:41:42.000 They fear the Tsar.

02:41:44.000 They fear Hitler.

02:41:45.000 Let's get it.

02:41:46.000 Let's run it back.

02:41:47.000 Let's run it back one more time.

02:41:50.000 Run it back, brother.

02:41:54.000 This is what it's all about.

02:41:59.000 Dude, Lex Freedman hates this.

02:42:02.000 Why?

02:42:02.000 I would interview him!

02:42:03.000 I would interview him!

02:42:06.000 I would interview him!

02:42:32.000 I would totally interview him.

02:42:34.000 Yeah, Lex Friedman hates that.

02:42:46.000 First of all, would you do it and how would you do it?

02:42:48.000 I assume you would do it given who you are.

02:42:50.000 Man, it would be a massive cost for doing it.

02:42:52.000 It may destroy my life to interview Putin, though I can tell you as much as I want that I'm not a Putin defender.

02:42:55.000 I only care about the United States.

02:42:56.000 That's 100% true.

02:42:56.000 Anyone who knows me will tell you it's true.

02:42:58.000 I keep saying it.

02:42:59.000 But history may record me to the extent it records me at all as a tool of Putin, a hater of America.

02:43:03.000 You know, that seems absurd to me, but absurd things happen.

02:43:06.000 What would I ask Hitler? 0.87

02:43:07.000 I don't even know.

02:43:08.000 I guess that I would probably ask him what I ask Putin, which is what I ask everybody.

02:43:12.000 Like, what's your motive?

02:43:13.000 I agree!

02:43:13.000 We should re-platform Hitler and let him talk!

02:43:15.000 Let him talk! 0.72

02:43:32.000 Bar fight, there's different ways.

02:43:33.000 There are different ways, that's exactly right.

02:43:34.000 That's exactly, man, is that true?

02:43:36.000 That is absolutely right.

02:43:37.000 I mean, your energy with Putin, for example, was such that it felt like he could trust you.

02:43:42.000 I felt like he could tell you a lot.

02:43:43.000 I just wanted, I just wanted to get it on the record!

02:43:45.000 That's all I wanted!

02:43:46.000 I think it was extremely, like, we have to acknowledge how important that interview was for the record and for opening the door for conversation.

02:43:53.000 Like, opening the door to conversation literally is the path to, like, more conversations and peace, peace talks.

02:43:57.000 Well, I would flip it around and say anyone who seeks to shut that down,

02:44:00.000 By focusing on a supermarket video of four minutes versus a two hour and 15 minute long interview with a world leader.

02:44:04.000 Anyone who doesn't want more conversation, who wants fewer facts, fewer perspectives is totalitarian.

02:44:09.000 Probably doesn't have good intent.

02:44:10.000 I mean, I can honestly say for all my many manifold faults.

02:44:13.000 I've never tried to, like, make people shut up.

02:44:15.000 You know?

02:44:15.000 It's not in me.

02:44:16.000 I don't believe in that.

02:44:18.000 So, Putin's folks have shown interest for quite a while to speaking with me.

02:44:22.000 So, you've spoken with him.

02:44:25.000 What advice would you give?

02:44:26.000 Oh, do it immediately.

02:44:27.000 How's your Russian, by the way?

02:44:28.000 Have you kept up with it?

02:44:29.000 Yeah, fluent.

02:44:30.000 So, he would most likely be in Russian.

02:44:32.000 So, that's the other thing is, I do have a question about language barrier.

02:44:35.000 Did you feel it was annoying?

02:44:36.000 It's horrible.

02:44:37.000 It's horrible.

02:44:38.000 I mean, I don't have much of a technique as an interviewer.

02:44:40.000 Other than listen really carefully.

02:44:42.000 That's that's my only skill.

02:44:43.000 I don't have the best questions.

02:44:44.000 I certainly don't have the best questions.

02:44:46.000 All I do that I'm proud of and I think works is I just listen super carefully.

02:44:48.000 I never let a word go by that I'm not paying attention.

02:44:50.000 It exhausts me, actually.

02:44:51.000 But you can't do that in a foreign language because there's a delay.

02:44:54.000 Here, I'm just whining, but it's real.

02:44:56.000 It's not whining.

02:44:57.000 Can you actually describe the technical details of that?

02:44:59.000 Are you hearing concurrently, like at the same time?

02:45:01.000 Yes, but there's a massive lag.

02:45:03.000 So what's happening is, so the translators, so we were, of course, extremely uptight about the logistical details.

02:45:07.000 So we brought our own cameraman, who I've been around the world with, who worked at Fox, came with me now.

02:45:12.000 Amazing.

02:45:13.000 And he did

02:45:14.000 I don't want to hear about the interview anymore.

02:45:15.000 I'm over it.

02:45:32.000 When that came out, you said that you actually know you love him.

02:45:34.000 So how do you explain the difference?

02:45:36.000 My texts reflect a lot of things, including how I feel at the moment that I sent them.

02:45:40.000 That specific text, I happen to know, since I had to go through it forensically during my deposition in a case I was not named in.

02:45:44.000 I had nothing to do with whatsoever.

02:45:46.000 It's crazy how civil suits can be used to hurt people you disagree with publicly.

02:45:49.000 But I was mad at a very specific person.

02:45:52.000 I mean, really, you're asking me, I'll tell you exactly what that was.

02:45:55.000 It was the second the election ended and they stopped voting, stopped the vote counting on election night,

02:46:00.000 Interesting how he starts touching his face on this question, isn't it?

02:46:04.000 Has he touched his face one time in this interview?

02:46:10.000 I'm just gonna scrub through.

02:46:11.000 I don't think he's touched his face even one time during this entire thing.

02:46:14.000 At least if he has, not a lot, not like this.

02:46:18.000 But so he's asked about these texts where he says he hates Trump.

02:46:22.000 And look at the way his hand covers his entire face.

02:46:25.000 I'll tell you exactly what it is.

02:46:26.000 I'll tell you exactly that discrepancy because I remember.

02:46:29.000 And then he covers his mouth.

02:46:30.000 Then he puts his hand on his face and covers his mouth.

02:46:33.000 And then he scratches his brow.

02:46:47.000 Concealing his entire face.

02:46:50.000 I'll tell you exactly what that was about.

02:46:55.000 I'll tell you exactly what I was doing.

02:46:57.000 I don't think I've seen that this entire interview.

02:47:02.000 We've watched two hours of it.

02:47:03.000 It's kind of interesting.

02:47:04.000 Stopped the vote counting on election night.

02:47:05.000 I was like, well this is, and it's all now mail-in ballots, electronic voting machines.

02:47:08.000 I was like, that's a rigged election.

02:47:09.000 I thought that then, I think it now.

02:47:11.000 Now it's obvious that it was.

02:47:12.000 But at the time I was like, I feel like there's, that was like crazy what just happened.

02:47:15.000 I want, but I don't want to go on TV and say it's a rigged election because I don't have any evidence it's a rigged election.

02:47:18.000 You can't do that.

02:47:18.000 It's irresponsible and it's wrong.

02:47:20.000 So I was like, I want, the Trump campaign was making all these claims about, you know, this or that fraud.

02:47:24.000 So I was trying my best to, to substantiate them, to follow up on it. 0.98

02:47:27.000 Everyone's like, shut up, Trump. 0.99

02:47:28.000 You lost. 1.00

02:47:28.000 Go away. 1.00

02:47:29.000 We're going to indict you.

02:47:30.000 Um, but I felt like my job was to be like, no, the guy's, he's president.

02:47:32.000 He's claiming the election just got stolen and he's making these claims.

02:47:34.000 Let's see if we can, 0.88

02:47:36.000 Well, the people around him were like, so incompetent. 0.96

02:47:37.000 It was just absolutely crazy. 0.81

02:47:38.000 And so I called a couple of times.

02:47:39.000 I finally gave up, but I'd call and be like, all right, you guys claim that these inconsistencies, this, you know, whatever this happened, give me evidence and I'll put it on TV.

02:47:45.000 You know, it's my job to bring stuff that is not going to be aired anywhere else to the public.

02:47:49.000 I couldn't it was like it was insane how incompetent and unserious they weren't able to provide well here's the here's the point of the story and of that text so then they say well dead people voted well that's just an easy call okay if a dead person voted we can prove someone's dead because like being dead is one of the few things we're good at like verifying because you start to smell okay and there's a record of it so the death certificate so it's like give me the names of people who are dead who voted then we can get their registration we can show they voted

02:48:10.000 Five names.

02:48:11.000 So I go on TV and I say, Caroline Johnson, 79, of Waukegan, Illinois, voted.

02:48:16.000 Here's her death certificate.

02:48:17.000 She died.

02:48:18.000 And the campaign sends me this stuff.

02:48:19.000 Now, I, in general, don't take stuff directly from campaigns, because they all lie, because their job is to get elected, or whatever.

02:48:23.000 So I'm very wary of campaigns having been around it for 30 years.

02:48:26.000 But I made an exception to my rule, and I got a bunch of stuff from them.

02:48:28.000 Well, of the six names, two of them are still alive.

02:48:31.000 What?

02:48:31.000 I immediately corrected it the next night.

02:48:33.000 CNN did a whole segment on how I was spreading disinformation, which I was, by the way.

02:48:37.000 In this one case, they were right. 0.62

02:48:38.000 I was so mad. 0.95

02:48:40.000 I was like, I hate you. 0.97

02:48:42.000 I'm not talking about you. 0.97

02:48:42.000 I'm so mad. 0.97

02:48:44.000 Anyway, that's the answer.

02:48:45.000 That's what that was.

02:48:46.000 No, no, that was not.

02:48:49.000 Nope.

02:48:53.000 That's a lie.

02:48:57.000 Not this one, not the one about how white men fight. 0.70

02:48:59.000 The one about Trump.

02:49:07.000 We have screenshots of them.

02:49:13.000 We are very very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights.

02:49:17.000 I truly can't wait.

02:49:27.000 Let's see.

02:49:28.000 There was one other one where he says, I hate Trump passionately.

02:49:31.000 Is it all here in the Washington Post?

02:49:39.000 The more this election drags on, the worse it is for Fox.

02:49:41.000 At this point, it would help the network for it to be called ASAP.

02:49:46.000 Can't imagine what weekend coverage would be like.

02:49:52.000 Let's see, where else?

02:49:56.000 On the bright side, Trump has a pretty low rate at success in his business ventures.

02:50:00.000 That's for sure.

02:50:02.000 All of them fail.

02:50:03.000 What he's good at is destroying things.

02:50:05.000 He's the undisputed world champion of that.

02:50:07.000 He could easily destroy us if we play it wrong.

02:50:09.000 It's so obvious.

02:50:20.000 Many viewers were upset tonight we didn't cover election fraud.

02:50:22.000 Yeah, probably should have.

02:50:24.000 But it's all our viewers care about right now.

02:50:26.000 Mistake. 1.00

02:50:26.000 I just hate that shit. 1.00

02:50:32.000 And then where is text from after? 1.00

02:50:33.000 Because he had text after January 6th.

02:50:37.000 Yeah, here.

02:50:38.000 This is after January 6th.

02:50:43.000 Trump has two weeks left.

02:50:45.000 Once he's out, he becomes incalculably less powerful, even in the minds of his own supporters.

02:50:50.000 My view is the most important thing we can do, maybe the only thing we can do, is try to save the things that make America worth living in.

02:50:56.000 For me, that begins with the First and Second Amendment.

02:50:58.000 There's no question that he will jeopardize those things.

02:51:01.000 He's a demonic force, a destroyer.

02:51:05.000 But he's not going to destroy us.

02:51:07.000 I've been thinking about this every day for four years.

02:51:13.000 Okay?

02:51:14.000 So he goes on this interview and says, Oh, I was mad because the Trump campaign gave me some misinformation.

02:51:23.000 And these texts he sent repeatedly for two months. 0.96

02:51:26.000 Trump is a destroyer. 0.95

02:51:27.000 He's terrible at business. 1.00

02:51:28.000 He destroys everything. 0.99

02:51:29.000 He's a demonic force.

02:51:31.000 He's destroying the first amendment.

02:51:34.000 I can't wait until he leaves office.

02:51:35.000 I've been thinking about it for four years.

02:51:37.000 He becomes less powerful.

02:51:39.000 Really?

02:51:40.000 So that's a lie.

02:51:46.000 Here he is on January 4th, 2021, months after that.

02:51:50.000 We are very, very close for being able to ignore Trump most nights.

02:51:53.000 I truly can't wait. 0.98

02:51:54.000 I hate him passionately. 0.96

02:51:57.000 Okay?

02:52:03.000 He was pushing voter fraud stuff.

02:52:05.000 I have no doubt there was fraud, but at this point Trump and Lyn and Powell have so discredited their own case and the rest of us to some extent.

02:52:11.000 It's infuriating, enrages me.

02:52:13.000 That's the last four years.

02:52:15.000 We're all pretending we've got a lot to show for it because admitting what a disaster it's been is too tough to digest.

02:52:21.000 But come on, there isn't an upside to Trump.

02:52:25.000 That's not the same.

02:52:26.000 To say, oh, well I was mad because they gave me a false report and Sidney Powell's retarded. 0.99

02:52:32.000 I mean, he's right about that.

02:52:33.000 What he said on Lex Friedman is true.

02:52:36.000 What he said on Lex Friedman about the Trump, you know, save the election effort, that was completely incompetent. 0.98

02:52:42.000 Sidney Powell and Lin Wood were ridiculous. 0.94

02:52:45.000 The Trump legal counsel wasn't even trying. 0.88

02:52:47.000 It was Peter Navarro's office, specifically this guy Garrett Ziegler, that were really the ones doing the lifting.

02:52:53.000 So it was a joke.

02:52:54.000 I mean, the whole thing was a joke.

02:52:55.000 Fair enough.

02:52:58.000 But that's not what these texts say.

02:52:59.000 He says, oh, that's all it was.

02:53:01.000 The texts say, we have nothing to show for the Trump first term. 0.98

02:53:06.000 Trump is demonic. 0.99

02:53:07.000 He destroys everything. 0.99

02:53:09.000 I can't wait until he's out of office.

02:53:11.000 I've been thinking about it for the past four years.

02:53:13.000 We'll never have to talk about him again.

02:53:15.000 I can't wait.

02:53:17.000 That's completely different.

02:53:20.000 So, we still have not had a full accounting for all these texts. 0.98

02:53:22.000 I think he's just covering his ass because Trump is back, and Trump is probably gonna win. 0.95

02:53:27.000 So now, that he got caught on the, he got caught red-handed, he's gonna say, oh well, it was really nothing, oh I was just mad about this one thing. 0.99

02:53:37.000 My producer, and I was like venting, it's like a producer I was really close to, and I've known him for a long time, he's really smart, and uh, and he's like, he was someone I could like be honest with, and I was like, ah!

02:53:44.000 And by the way, it's so funny, I mean, now I'm doing What Was Me, which I will keep to a minimum, but... It's like stealing someone's text, like... He did it for months, too.

02:53:51.000 He did it in November, December, and January.

02:53:53.000 So the initial thing that he's talking about here was in November.

02:53:58.000 This is in January.

02:53:59.000 This is November, December, and January. 1.00

02:54:01.000 I was an idiot. 1.00

02:54:03.000 I should have said, come and arrest me. 1.00

02:54:03.000 I'm not giving you my freaking text messages, okay? 1.00

02:54:05.000 Yeah. 0.85

02:54:05.000 But I got bullied into it by a lawyer. 0.85

02:54:07.000 I didn't get bullied into it.

02:54:08.000 I was weak enough to agree with a lawyer.

02:54:10.000 My fault.

02:54:11.000 Never should have done that. 1.00

02:54:12.000 Fuck you! 1.00

02:54:12.000 They're my texts. 1.00

02:54:13.000 I'm not even named in this case.

02:54:14.000 That's what I should have said, but I didn't.

02:54:15.000 I said I was mad on the air the next day, but not in language that colorful.

02:54:19.000 But whatever.

02:54:20.000 Whatever.

02:54:20.000 I try to be... I try to be transparent.

02:54:23.000 I mean, I also think, by the way, if you watch someone over time, you don't always know what they really think, but you can tell if someone's lying.

02:54:29.000 You know, you can sort of feel it in people.

02:54:31.000 And I have lied.

02:54:32.000 I'm sure I'll lie again.

02:54:32.000 I don't want to lie.

02:54:33.000 You know?

02:54:33.000 I don't think I'm a liar.

02:54:34.000 I try not to be a liar.

02:54:35.000 I don't want to be a liar.

02:54:36.000 I think it's, like, really important not to be a liar.

02:54:39.000 You said nice things about me earlier.

02:54:40.000 I'm starting to question.

02:54:41.000 I have questions.

02:54:41.000 I have a lot of questions.

02:54:42.000 I'm gonna have to see your texts after this.

02:54:46.000 My texts are so uninteresting now.

02:54:47.000 It's like crazy how uninteresting they are.

02:54:49.000 Emojis and gifs.

02:54:50.000 Yeah, lots of dog pictures.

02:54:51.000 Nice.

02:54:51.000 You said to some degree the election was rigged.

02:54:54.000 Lots of dog pictures.

02:54:55.000 A lot of hating on Trump.

02:54:57.000 So it's a lot of hating Trump.

02:54:59.000 A lot of dog pictures too.

02:55:01.000 Okay, buddy.

02:55:01.000 Was it stolen?

02:55:02.000 It was 100% stolen.

02:55:03.000 Are you joking?

02:55:04.000 Like it was rigged to that large of a degree?

02:55:05.000 They completely change the way people vote.

02:55:09.000 He didn't cover it.

02:55:10.000 Tucker didn't cover it at all.

02:55:12.000 He didn't cover any of this.

02:55:14.000 You know what he came on when the election was stolen in 2020?

02:55:18.000 He came out and said the polls were wrong.

02:55:21.000 He said they said Biden would win Michigan by 40 points, but he didn't.

02:55:27.000 That was Tucker's coverage in 2020.

02:55:29.000 I remember because we were calling him out in Atlanta.

02:55:32.000 And he didn't cover any of this.

02:55:34.000 Now, when it's safe,

02:55:37.000 Excuse me, all these years later, now that Biden is firmly in, and we're facing the next one, and now he says, oh yeah, of course it was totally fake.

02:55:43.000 Where was this in 2020?

02:55:55.000 By the way, it might have hurt Trump.

02:55:56.000 But I mean, it's like, whatever.

02:55:58.000 I mean, you could play it many different ways.

02:55:59.000 You can't have censorship in a democracy, by definition.

02:56:02.000 Here's how it works.

02:56:03.000 The people rule.

02:56:03.000 They vote for representatives to carry their agenda to the capital city and get it enacted.

02:56:06.000 That's how they're in charge.

02:56:07.000 And then every few years, they get to reassess the performance of those people in an election.

02:56:10.000 In order to do that, they need access, unfettered access, to information.

02:56:15.000 And no one, particularly not people who are already in power, is allowed to tell them what information they can have.

02:56:19.000 They have to have all information that they want.

02:56:21.000 Whether the people in charge want it, or don't want it, or think it's true, or think it's false, doesn't matter.

02:56:25.000 And the second you don't have that, you don't have a democracy.

02:56:27.000 It's not a free election, period.

02:56:28.000 And that's very clear in other countries, I guess, but it's not clear here.

02:56:31.000 So, but I would say it's this election that, I mean, it took me a while to come to this, but it's this election that's the referendum on democracy.

02:56:38.000 Biden is senile.

02:56:39.000 He's literally senile. 0.98

02:56:40.000 He can't talk.

02:56:40.000 He can't walk.

02:56:41.000 The whole world knows that.

02:56:42.000 Leave our borders. 0.93

02:56:42.000 People are, you know, everybody, everybody in the world knows it. 0.93

02:56:45.000 He can't, he can't, you can't, a senile man is not going to get elected in the most powerful country in the world.

02:56:52.000 Unless they're fraud.

02:56:53.000 Period.

02:56:53.000 Like, who would vote for a senile man?

02:56:55.000 He literally can't talk.

02:56:56.000 And nobody I've ever met thinks he's running the U.S.

02:56:58.000 government, because he's not.

02:56:59.000 And so, I think the world is looking on at this coming election and saying, and a lot of the world hates Trump, okay?

02:57:03.000 It's not an endorsement of Trump.

02:57:05.000 But it's true.

02:57:05.000 If Joe Biden gets re-elected,

02:57:08.000 Democracy is a freaking joke. 0.97

02:57:09.000 It's just true. 0.99

02:57:10.000 I think half the country doesn't think he's senile.

02:57:13.000 Do you really think that?

02:57:13.000 They don't think he's senile?

02:57:15.000 Yeah, I think he just has difficulty speaking.

02:57:19.000 It's like gradual degradation, just getting old.

02:57:22.000 So cognitive ability is degrading.

02:57:23.000 What's the difference between degraded cognitive ability and senility?

02:57:26.000 Well, senility has a threshold.

02:57:28.000 It's beyond a threshold to where he could be a functioning leader.

02:57:30.000 Okay, that may be a term of art that I don't fully understand.

02:57:32.000 Maybe there's like an IQ threshold or something.

02:57:34.000 But I'm happy to go with degraded cognitive ability.

02:57:36.000 Sure, but that's an age thing.

02:57:37.000 But he's the leader of the United States with the world's second largest nuclear arsenal.

02:57:40.000 I'm with you.

02:57:40.000 I'm a sucker for great speeches and for speaking abilities of leaders and Biden with two wars going on and potentially more.

02:57:47.000 The importance of a leader to speak eloquently, both privately in a room with other leaders and publicly, is really important.

02:57:51.000 I agree with you that rhetorical ability really matters.

02:57:53.000 Convincing people that your program is right, telling them what we're for, national identity, national unity, all come from words.

02:57:58.000 I agree with all of that.

02:58:06.000 I need a Winston Churchill movie speech.

02:58:09.000 I need an IMDb, World War II movie, Steven Spielberg feel-good speech about how democracy needs to fight Putin. 0.99

02:58:18.000 Yeah, that's the problem with having a mental retard running your government. 1.00

02:58:22.000 Where's all the base speeches? 0.98

02:58:24.000 Where's all the good speeches like that Obama would give?

02:58:27.000 Someone who grunted at the microphone would be more reassuring than a guy who clearly doesn't know where he is.

02:58:31.000 And I think everyone knows that.

02:58:32.000 And like, I can't imagine there's an honest person in Washington, which is gonna vote for Biden by 90%, obviously.

02:58:36.000 Those are all dependent on the federal government for their income.

02:58:38.000 But is there any person who could say, like, out of 350 million Americans, like, that's the most qualified to lead?

02:58:42.000 Or even in the top 80%?

02:58:43.000 Like, what?

02:58:44.000 That's so embarrassing that that guy is our president and with wars going on, it's scary.

02:58:49.000 But it's complicated to understand why.

02:58:51.000 Those are the choices we have.

02:58:52.000 Well, I agree.

02:58:53.000 Well, it's a failure of the system.

02:58:54.000 Clearly, it's not working.

02:58:55.000 If you've got one guy over 80, the other guy almost at 80, people that age should not be running any. 1.00

02:58:59.000 So you have on the Democratic side, you have Dean Phillips, you have R.K.

02:59:02.000 Jr.

02:59:02.000 until recently, I guess, he's independent.

02:59:04.000 And then you have Vivek, who are all younger people.

02:59:06.000 Yeah.

02:59:07.000 Why did they not connect to a degree to where... It's such an interesting... I mean, I think it's a really interesting question.

02:59:12.000 There are a million different answers.

02:59:13.000 And of course, I don't fully understand it, even though I feel like I've watched it pretty carefully.

02:59:18.000 I would say the bottom line is there's so much money vested in the federal apparatus, in the parties, in the government.

02:59:24.000 As I said a minute ago, our economy is dominated by monopolies, but the greatest of all monopolies is the federal monopoly, which oversees and controls all the other monopolies.

02:59:31.000 So it's like, it's really substantially about the money.

02:59:33.000 It's not ideological, it's about the money.

02:59:34.000 And if someone controls the federal government, I mean, at this point, it's the most powerful organization in human history.

02:59:39.000 Like, it's kind of hard to, it's kind of hard to fight that.

02:59:41.000 In the case of Trump, I know the answer there.

02:59:43.000 They raided Mar-a-Lago. 1.00

02:59:44.000 They indicted him on bullshit charges. 0.99

02:59:46.000 Like, and I felt that in myself, too. 1.00

02:59:47.000 Even I was like, come on.

02:59:48.000 You know, like, whatever you think of Trump.

02:59:49.000 And I agreed with his immigration views. 0.99

02:59:51.000 I really like Trump personally.

02:59:52.000 I think he's hilarious and interesting, which he is.

02:59:54.000 But it's like, okay, there are a lot of people in this country.

02:59:56.000 Let's get some, you know, let's have, at the very least, let's have a real debate.

02:59:59.000 The second, I messed up your camera, sir.

03:00:00.000 Sorry, I'm getting excited.

03:00:01.000 But the second they rated Mar-a-Lago on a documents charge, as someone from D.C., I was like, I know a lot about classification and all that stuff and been around it a lot.

03:00:09.000 That's so absurd.

03:00:10.000 But I was like, now it's not about Trump.

03:00:12.000 It's about our system continuing.

03:00:14.000 If you can take out a presidential candidate on a fake charge, use the justice system to take the guy out of the race, then we don't have a representative democracy anymore.

03:00:20.000 And I think a lot of Republican voters felt that way.

03:00:23.000 If they hadn't indicted him, I'm not sure he would be the nominee.

03:00:25.000 I really don't think he would. 0.99

03:00:26.000 So now a vote for Trump is a kind of fuck you to the system. 0.83

03:00:28.000 Or an expression of your desire to keep the system that we had, which is one where voters get to decide. 0.98

03:00:32.000 Prosecutors don't get to decide.

03:00:33.000 Look, they told us for four years that Trump was like a super criminal or something.

03:00:37.000 I've actually been friends with some super criminals.

03:00:38.000 I'm a little less judgy than most.

03:00:39.000 So I didn't discount the possibility that he had, I don't know, he's in the real estate business in New York in the 70s.

03:00:43.000 Like, did he kill someone?

03:00:44.000 I don't know.

03:00:45.000 Yeah.

03:00:45.000 You know, no, I'm not joking.

03:00:46.000 And I'm not for killing people, but like anything's possible.

03:00:48.000 It's good that you took a stand on that.

03:00:51.000 I was like, well, who knows, you know?

03:00:52.000 And I didn't know.

03:00:53.000 And what they came up with was a documents charge?

03:00:55.000 Are you joking?

03:00:55.000 And then the sitting president has the same documents violation, but he's fine?

03:00:58.000 It's like, it's crazy this is happening in front of all of us.

03:01:00.000 And then it becomes like, at that point, it's not about Joe Biden.

03:01:03.000 It's not about Donald Trump.

03:01:04.000 It's about preserving a system which has worked, not perfectly, but pretty freaking well for 250 years.

03:01:07.000 I know you don't like Trump.

03:01:09.000 I get it.

03:01:09.000 Let's not destroy that system.

03:01:10.000 But we can handle another four years of Trump.

03:01:12.000 I think we can.

03:01:12.000 So calm down.

03:01:13.000 What we can't handle is a country whose political system is run by the Justice Department.

03:01:17.000 That is just

03:01:18.000 You're freaking Ecuador at that point.

03:01:20.000 No.

03:01:21.000 So speaking of the Justice Department, CIA and intelligence agencies of that nature, which you've been traveling quite a bit, probably tracked by everybody.

03:01:28.000 Which is the most powerful intelligence agency do you think?

03:01:31.000 CIA?

03:01:33.000 Mossad?

03:01:34.000 MI6?

03:01:34.000 SVR?

03:01:37.000 I keep going.

03:01:39.000 The Chinese. 0.54

03:01:40.000 It depends what you mean by powerful.

03:01:42.000 Which one bats above its weight?

03:01:44.000 We know.

03:01:45.000 Which one

03:01:48.000 Which one? 0.99

03:01:49.000 Oh, damn, dude. 0.99

03:01:51.000 This is spy games. 1.00

03:01:53.000 There are two spies.

03:01:54.000 Lex Freedman's a spy.

03:01:55.000 Tucker's a spy.

03:01:57.000 Which one bats above its weight?

03:01:59.000 We know.

03:02:00.000 Yes, we do.

03:02:02.000 Yes, we do.

03:02:04.000 That's hilarious.

03:02:06.000 Oh, man.

03:02:08.000 Is massage... Which one bats above its weight?

03:02:11.000 We know.

03:02:12.000 Which one is... Massage, just to be clear, I guess is weight. 0.63

03:02:14.000 Well, of course.

03:02:15.000 Tiny country.

03:02:15.000 It's very sophisticated in its purpose.

03:02:17.000 Which one...

03:02:19.000 Of course!

03:02:20.000 He wouldn't even say it.

03:02:21.000 He wouldn't even say the words.

03:02:24.000 Lex Friedman had to say, you mean Masaad Goy?

03:02:28.000 Goy, did you mean Masaad?

03:02:31.000 It has the greatest global reach and comms.

03:02:33.000 Which one is most able to read your text?

03:02:35.000 I assume the NSA.

03:02:36.000 But Chinese books are pretty good.

03:02:38.000 Israel is pretty good.

03:02:39.000 The French actually are surprisingly good for kind of a declining country. 1.00

03:02:42.000 Their intel services seem pretty impressive.

03:02:43.000 No, I love France, but you know what I mean?

03:02:45.000 And all that.

03:02:46.000 But the question, I mean, I grew up around all that stuff.

03:02:48.000 It's all totally fine.

03:02:49.000 A strong country should have a strong and capable intel service so its policy makers can make informed decisions.

03:02:53.000 That's what they're for.

03:02:54.000 As Vladimir Putin himself noted, I don't talk about it very much, but it's true. 1.00

03:02:56.000 I applied to the CIA when I was in college.

03:02:58.000 You know, I was familiar with it because of where I lived and had grown up and everything, and I was like, seemed interesting.

03:03:02.000 That's honestly the only reason.

03:03:03.000 I was like, live in foreign countries, see history happen, like, I'm for that.

03:03:06.000 I applied to the operations directorate.

03:03:07.000 They turned me down on the basis of drug use, actually.

03:03:10.000 True.

03:03:10.000 But anyway, whatever.

03:03:11.000 I was unsuited for it, so I'm glad they turned me down.

03:03:13.000 But the point is, I didn't see CIA as a threat, partly because I was bathing in propaganda about CIA, and I didn't really understand what it was and didn't want to know.

03:03:18.000 But second, because my impression at the time was it was outwardly focused.

03:03:21.000 It was focused on our enemies.

03:03:23.000 I don't have a problem with that as much.

03:03:25.000 The fact that CIA is playing in domestic politics and actually has for a long time was involved in the Kennedy assassination.

03:03:29.000 That's not speculation.

03:03:30.000 That's a fact.

03:03:31.000 And I confirmed that for someone who had read their documents.

03:03:33.000 They're still not public.

03:03:34.000 It's shocking.

03:03:35.000 You can't have that.

03:03:36.000 And the reason I'm so mad is I really believe in the idea of representative government, acknowledging its imperfections.

03:03:40.000 But like I should have some say.

03:03:41.000 I live here.

03:03:41.000 I'm a citizen.

03:03:42.000 I pay all your freaking taxes. 0.97

03:03:44.000 So the fact that they would be 0.98

03:03:46.000 Tampering with American democracy is so outrageous to me.

03:03:49.000 And I don't know why Morning Joe is not outraged. 0.97

03:03:51.000 This parade of dummies, highly credentialed dummies, they have on Morning Joe every day. 0.94

03:03:54.000 They don't seem to... That doesn't bother them at all. 0.94

03:03:56.000 How could that not bother you?

03:03:57.000 Why is only Glenn Greenwald mad about it?

03:03:59.000 I mean, it's confirmed.

03:03:59.000 It's not like a fever dream.

03:04:01.000 It's real.

03:04:01.000 They played in the last election domestically.

03:04:03.000 And I guess it shows how dumb I am because they've been doing that for many years. 0.97

03:04:06.000 I mean, the guy who took out Mossadegh lived on my street. 0.95

03:04:09.000 You know, the Roosevelt CIA officer.

03:04:11.000 So I mean, again, I grew up around this stuff, but I never really thought, I never reached the obvious conclusion, which is that if the U.S.

03:04:18.000 government subverts democracy in other countries in the name of democracy, it will over time subvert democracy in my country.

03:04:23.000 Why wouldn't it?

03:04:25.000 That is, the corruption is like core.

03:04:26.000 It's at the root of it.

03:04:28.000 The purpose of the CIA was envisioned, at least publicly envisioned, as an intel gathering apparatus for the executives of the president.

03:04:32.000 Someone in the live chat says, say that again.

03:04:34.000 The guy that killed Mosaddegh lived down the street from Tucker?

03:04:39.000 For those that don't know, that's the one who replaced, the CIA killed him in Iran to reinstall the Shah in the 50s, in what, 56?

03:04:49.000 Say that again. 0.71

03:04:50.000 So the guy that killed...

03:04:54.000 So, and wait a second, didn't he say at the beginning of the show that he didn't learn that the U.S.

03:04:59.000 government kills people until his middle age?

03:05:04.000 He said, uh, finding out that the U.S.

03:05:06.000 government interferes in other countries affairs came to me as a shock because I learned it in my middle age.

03:05:13.000 But the guy that killed the Iranian leader

03:05:18.000 And the 50s lived down the street from you and you were growing up and you bathed in CIA propaganda because your dad was a fed?

03:05:25.000 So, like, it seems like the li- Didn't I say that at the beginning?

03:05:28.000 Didn't I say that was cap? 0.99

03:05:30.000 I said that was bullshit? 1.00

03:05:31.000 The whole thing! 1.00

03:05:32.000 This, like, aw shucks, why didn't Putin hand over the spy to my custody?

03:05:38.000 There was no reason that he should have- that he shouldn't have done that.

03:05:41.000 Oh, I had no idea the US government's involved in everyone's affairs until I was 40.

03:05:47.000 And now we learn, yeah, I applied for the CIA, oh.

03:05:51.000 I saw the documents about Jack Kennedy getting killed.

03:05:53.000 The guy who killed most of Doug lived down the street from me.

03:05:58.000 Very...and he hates Trump, just like Peter Strzok.

03:06:02.000 And Tucker Carlson had his Lisa Page, Peter Strzok moment when his texts were leaked and he covers his face and says, oh, I have no idea.

03:06:10.000 Oh, let me tell you exactly what that's about.

03:06:12.000 Let me tell you exactly what I meant by that as I cover my mouth and cover my face.

03:06:16.000 We could make wise foreign policy decisions.

03:06:17.000 What the hell is happening in country X?

03:06:19.000 I don't know.

03:06:19.000 Let me call the agency in charge of finding out.

03:06:21.000 The point wasn't to freaking guarantee the outcome of elections.

03:06:26.000 I'm doing an Israel-Palestine debate next week, but I have to ask you just your thoughts, maybe even from a U.S.

03:06:30.000 perspective, what do you think about Hamas attacks on Israel?

03:06:32.000 What would be the right thing for Israel to do, and what's the right thing for U.S. 0.85

03:06:36.000 to do in this, looking at the geopolitics of it?

03:06:38.000 I mean, it's not a topic that I get into a lot because I'm a non-expert.

03:06:43.000 And because I'm not, unlike every other American, I'm not emotionally invested in other countries just in general.

03:06:48.000 I mean, I admire them or not.

03:06:50.000 I love visiting them.

03:06:50.000 I love Jerusalem, probably my favorite city in the world.

03:06:53.000 But I don't have an emotional attachment to it.

03:06:54.000 So maybe I've got more clarity.

03:06:56.000 I don't know.

03:06:56.000 Maybe less.

03:06:57.000 Here's my view.

03:06:57.000 I believe in sovereignty, as mentioned, and I think each country has to make decisions based on its own interests, but also with reference to its own capabilities.

03:07:04.000 It's a long-term interest and it's very unwise for, uh, I'm not a huge fan of treaties.

03:07:08.000 Some are fine, too many bad.

03:07:09.000 Uh, but I think U.S.

03:07:11.000 aid, military aid to Israel and the implied security guarantees, some explicit, but many implied security guarantees of the United States to Israel probably haven't helped Israel that much long-term, you know?

03:07:19.000 It's a rich country with a highly capable population like every other country.

03:07:21.000 It's probably best if it makes its decisions based on what- It doesn't help Israel. 0.87

03:07:27.000 The foreign aid and the security guarantees long-term don't help Israel.

03:07:33.000 Wasn't there, is it commentary magazine?

03:07:35.000 I think.

03:07:36.000 Or is it a different one?

03:07:42.000 Might be tablet.

03:07:49.000 They did a symposium on this recently and they had everybody weigh in.

03:07:52.000 Let me see, was it, it might have been something, it might have been tablet.

03:08:03.000 Or was it?

03:08:12.000 Yeah, here we go.

03:08:22.000 So, Tablet last year did a symposium.

03:08:26.000 The publication on July 16th

03:08:30.000 2023 of an article by Jacob Siegel, who is a total spook, by the way.

03:08:35.000 I could pull him up in my brand new Obsidian.

03:08:40.000 Jacob Siegel, son of Fred Siegel.

03:08:46.000 Fred Siegel works for the Manhattan Institute, old friend of David Sidorsky, mentor of Kostin Alomariu.

03:08:55.000 Anyway, Jacob Siegel and Leo Leibovitz called for an end to USA to Israel, opened a fresh debate over a topic dominated by outdated assumptions and emotional entreaties.

03:09:05.000 To deepen the conversation, Tablet invited a group that includes a retired IDF general, U.S.

03:09:10.000 senators, members of Congress, Middle East diplomats, writers, to give their thoughts on it.

03:09:16.000 Let's read the article from Jacob Siegel, by the way, because this echoes what Tucker just said.

03:09:24.000 We just go to maybe we just I haven't read this by the way.

03:09:26.000 We just get to the end get the Get to the conclusion here

03:09:38.000 Cut the stranglehold of aid.

03:09:41.000 Let America pursue its interests.

03:09:42.000 Let Israel follow its own interests, which sometimes align with Washington, sometimes don't.

03:09:48.000 If Israelis think it will ensure their security to decapitate the Iranian regime or give the Golan Heights on a platter to Bashar Assad, or develop their own homemade fighter plane and sell it to India or Saudi Arabia or China, let them go ahead. 0.94

03:10:01.000 Let Israel decapitate the Iranian regime. 0.63

03:10:06.000 AMERICA FIRST! 0.99

03:10:07.000 AMERICA FIRST!

03:10:08.000 Cut foreign aid to Israel!

03:10:10.000 YEAH!

03:10:11.000 AMERICA FIRST!

03:10:12.000 So that they can depose the Iranian regime.

03:10:17.000 Wait, what?

03:10:20.000 Jacob Siegel says, let's cut foreign aid!

03:10:23.000 AMERICA FIRST!

03:10:25.000 AMERICA... So that we can kill the Iranian mullahs and sell fighter jets to China! 1.00

03:10:32.000 Wait a second... 1.00

03:10:35.000 Hang on! 0.81

03:10:39.000 And let American Jews who care about being Jewish focus on observance and learning their people's history instead of pimping for Lockheed Martin.

03:10:46.000 If the commitment to Israel is deeper than political fashion, if it is more than a secularized idolatry, then it's time to prove it by smashing ideological idols of America's Israel debate.

03:11:02.000 They are afraid of progressives using Israeli or rather foreign aid to Israel as a golden handcuffs.

03:11:10.000 That's what they're afraid of.

03:11:11.000 So when Tucker says our security guarantee isn't good for Israel, it's echoing what has been a growing Jewish position since Obama left office and maybe shortly before, really since the JCPOA.

03:11:24.000 Some are fine, too many bad.

03:11:25.000 But I think U.S.

03:11:27.000 aid, military aid to Israel and the implied security guarantees, some explicit, but many implied security guarantees of the United States to Israel probably haven't helped Israel that much long-term, you know?

03:11:34.000 It's a rich country with a highly capable population like every other country.

03:11:36.000 It's probably best if it makes its decisions based on what it can do by itself.

03:11:41.000 So I would definitely be concerned if I lived in Israel because I think... Well, good for Israel. 1.00

03:11:44.000 ...fair or unfair, and really this is another product of technology.

03:11:46.000 Well, good for Israel. 0.99

03:11:48.000 Good for them.

03:11:51.000 You know, we're giving them so much money that now that we have some expectations for them, now it's bad for them.

03:11:58.000 We need to do what's best for... I think it's time we do what's best for Israel. 0.60

03:12:02.000 Now that the foreign aid is actually restraining them rather than helping them expand,

03:12:06.000 I think it's time to stop and let them do what's best.

03:12:09.000 Let's just do what's best for those people.

03:12:11.000 I'm worried about that.

03:12:12.000 Public sentiment in that area is boiling over.

03:12:14.000 And I think it's gonna be hard for some of the governments in the region, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, to contain their own population.

03:12:18.000 They don't want conflict with Israel at all.

03:12:19.000 They were all pretty psyched, actually, for the trend in progress, the Saudi peace deal, which was never signed, but would have been great for everybody.

03:12:24.000 Because, like, trade, peace, normal relations, like, that's good, okay?

03:12:27.000 Let's just say.

03:12:28.000 I know John Bolton doesn't like it, but it's good.

03:12:31.000 And it's kind of what we should be looking for.

03:12:33.000 But now it's not possible.

03:12:35.000 And, you know, if you had like a coalition of countries against Israel, I know Israel has nuclear weapons and has a capable military and all that in the backing of the United States, but like you don't, it's a small country.

03:12:43.000 I think I'd be very worried.

03:12:45.000 So there's that.

03:12:46.000 And I don't see any advantage in to the United States.

03:12:50.000 I mean, I don't, I think it's important.

03:12:52.000 For each country to make its own decisions.

03:12:53.000 But it also is a place, like you said, where things are boiling over, and it could spread across multiple nations into a major military conflict.

03:12:59.000 Yeah, well, I think very easily could happen.

03:13:01.000 In fact, probably right after Ramadan, if I had to guess.

03:13:02.000 And I pray it doesn't.

03:13:04.000 But again, I don't think you can overstate the lack of wisdom, weakness, short-term thinking of American foreign policy leadership.

03:13:11.000 These are the architects of the Iraq War, of the totally pointless destruction of Libya, totally pointless destruction of Syria, and the 20-year occupation of Afghanistan that resulted in a return to status quo. 0.96

03:13:19.000 So like, the Vietnam War,

03:13:21.000 Their track record of the Korean War, even going back 80 years, is uninterrupted failures, one after the other.

03:13:27.000 So I just don't have any confidence in those leaders to improve.

03:13:30.000 When was the last time they improved another country?

03:13:33.000 Can you think of that?

03:13:33.000 Oh, the Marshall Plan.

03:13:34.000 Well, you look at Europe now and you're like, I don't know, you know, if that worked.

03:13:38.000 But even if it did work, again, 80 years ago.

03:13:39.000 So when was the last country American foreign policymakers improved?

03:13:43.000 So if I were

03:13:44.000 Netanyahu's in a very difficult place, politically impossible.

03:13:46.000 I mean, I'm glad I'm not Netanyahu.

03:13:48.000 And I'm not sure he's capable of making wise long-term decisions anyway.

03:13:51.000 But if I was just, like, an Israeli, I'd be like, I don't know if I want, like, all this help and guidance.

03:13:57.000 So yeah, I actually think it's worse than just having just returned from the Middle East and talking to a lot of pretty open-minded sort of pro-Israeli Arabs who want stability above all. 0.98

03:14:05.000 The merchant class always wants stability.

03:14:07.000 So I'm on their side, I guess.

03:14:08.000 And they're like, man, this could get super ugly, super fast.

03:14:11.000 American leadership is just completely absent.

03:14:13.000 It's just all posturing.

03:14:14.000 It's like people like Nikki Haley.

03:14:15.000 You just wonder, like, how does an advanced civilization promote someone like Nikki Haley to a position of authority?

03:14:19.000 It's like, what?

03:14:23.000 Like that would be the appropriate response, but everyone's so intimidated.

03:14:26.000 Like, oh, she's a strong woman. 1.00

03:14:27.000 She's so transparently weak and sort of ridiculous. 1.00

03:14:29.000 It doesn't know anything. 0.99

03:14:30.000 And it's just like thinks that jumping up and down and making these absurd like statements, repeating bumper stickers is like leadership or something.

03:14:36.000 A self-confident advanced society would never allow Nikki Haley to advance. 0.99

03:14:40.000 I mean, she's really not impressive.

03:14:42.000 Sorry.

03:14:42.000 I just feel like you hold back too much and don't tell us what you really think.

03:14:46.000 Sorry!

03:14:46.000 I think you just speak your mind more often.

03:14:48.000 I mean, you can completely disagree with my opinions, but in the case of Nikki Haley, it's not like an opinion form just from watching television, which I don't watch.

03:14:54.000 It's an opinion form from knowing Nikki Haley, so...

03:14:56.000 Strong words from Tucker.

03:14:57.000 Well, felt too.

03:14:59.000 Well, the world's in the balance.

03:15:01.000 I mean, it's not just like, well, you know, what should the capital gains rate be?

03:15:04.000 It's like, do we live or die?

03:15:05.000 I don't know.

03:15:06.000 Let's consult Nikki Haley.

03:15:07.000 So if you're asking, should we live or die and consult Nikki Haley, clearly you don't care about the lives of your children.

03:15:11.000 That's how I feel.

03:15:12.000 Not to try to get a preview or anything, but do you have interest of interviewing Xi Jinping?

03:15:16.000 And if you do, how will you approach that?

03:15:19.000 I have enormous interest in doing that.

03:15:20.000 Enormous.

03:15:21.000 And a couple other people and we're working on it.

03:15:22.000 I should also say, like, it's been refreshing you interviewing world leaders.

03:15:26.000 I think when I've started seeing you do that, it made me realize how much that's lacking.

03:15:31.000 Well, yeah, it's just interesting.

03:15:32.000 I mean, from even a historical perspective, it's also important.

03:15:34.000 It's just interesting.

03:15:35.000 It's just interesting.

03:15:38.000 It's just interesting that his dad was in South Africa for the election and he was in Albania and he lived down the street from the guy that killed Mossadegh and he was and Tucker was bathed in CIA propaganda his dad now works for the Hungarian lobbying firm and you know when Tucker and and his father negotiated deals on behalf of the U.S.

03:15:59.000 government with Belize and with USSR and Korea and China

03:16:04.000 And it's just interesting when Tucker interviews world leaders.

03:16:09.000 When Tucker goes abroad and interviews world leaders, like shortly before Millet gets elected and pulls out of BRICS, or when he goes and interviews Santiago Ovax, or he interviews Orban, or goes in Canada before Trudeau's election where he's expected to be overthrown this year.

03:16:26.000 It's just interesting.

03:16:29.000 That's all it is.

03:16:31.000 It's just interesting.

03:16:32.000 It's just fascinating, for curiosity's sake.

03:16:36.000 From a geopolitics perspective.

03:16:37.000 And nothing else.

03:16:37.000 Well, it's really changed my perspective, and I've been going on about how American I am, and I think that's a great thing.

03:16:41.000 I love America.

03:16:42.000 But it's also, you know, we're so physically, geographically isolated from the world, even though I traveled a ton as a kid, a lot, you know, more than most people.

03:16:48.000 But even now, I'm like, I'm so parochial.

03:16:50.000 I'm so, I see everything through this lens, and getting out and seeing the rest of the world, to which we really are connected, like, that's real.

03:16:57.000 is vitally important.

03:16:58.000 So I, yeah, I mean, at this stage, I don't, you know, kind of need to do it, but I really want to just motivated by curiosity and trying to expand my own mind and not be closed minded and really see the fullest perspective I possibly can in order to render wise judgments.

03:17:10.000 I mean, that's like the whole journey of life.

03:17:13.000 I was just hanging out with Rogan yesterday, Joe Rogan, and I mentioned to him that it's me being a fan of his show, that I would love for him to talk with you, and he said he's up for it.

03:17:22.000 Any reason you guys haven't done it already?

03:17:23.000 I don't know.

03:17:25.000 I've only met Rogan once, and I liked him.

03:17:27.000 I met him at the UFC in New York.

03:17:29.000 He was with somebody, a mutual friend of ours, and Rogan changed media.

03:17:33.000 I mean, maybe more than anybody.

03:17:35.000 And he did it, what I admire about Rogan, without knowing him beyond meeting him that one time,

03:17:39.000 I mean, I'm still in media, but I've always been in media.

03:17:41.000 You know, it's like not a great surprise.

03:17:42.000 I'm doing what I've always done, just a different format.

03:17:44.000 But Rogan, like, he's got one of those resumes that I admire.

03:17:47.000 You know, I like the guy who's like, I was a longshoreman.

03:17:48.000 I was a short order cook.

03:17:49.000 I was an astrophysicist.

03:17:50.000 I was like, he's called a man of parts.

03:17:52.000 And this guy was a fighter, a stand-up comic.

03:17:54.000 He hosted some, you know, Fear Factor.

03:17:56.000 Like, how did he wind up at the vanguard of like,

03:18:00.000 The deepest conversations in the country.

03:18:01.000 Like, how did that happen?

03:18:01.000 So I definitely respect that.

03:18:03.000 And I think it's cool.

03:18:04.000 And he, Rogan is one of those people just kind of came out of nowhere.

03:18:07.000 Like no one helped him.

03:18:08.000 You know what I mean?

03:18:09.000 He was doing the thing that he loves doing and somehow keeps accidentally being exceptionally successful.

03:18:13.000 Yeah, and he's curious.

03:18:14.000 So that's like the main thing.

03:18:15.000 And there was a guy, without getting boring, but there was a guy I worked with years ago, kind of dominated cable news, Larry King. 0.97

03:18:20.000 And everyone would always beat up on Larry King for being dumb.

03:18:22.000 Well, I got to know Larry King well, and I was his fill-in host for a while. 0.96

03:18:23.000 And Larry King was just intensely curious.

03:18:25.000 He'd be like, why do you wear black tie, Lex?

03:18:26.000 Because I like black tie.

03:18:27.000 Why do you like black tie?

03:18:28.000 No, no, everyone else wears a striped top, you wear a black one.

03:18:29.000 And he was like really interested.

03:18:30.000 Yeah, genuinely so, yeah.

03:18:31.000 Totally.

03:18:32.000 And I want to be like that.

03:18:33.000 I don't want to think I know everything.

03:18:35.000 That's so boorish.

03:18:36.000 And also false, you don't know everything.

03:18:37.000 But I see that in Rogan.

03:18:38.000 Rogan's like, rah, how does that work?

03:18:39.000 And people will... And it's so funny how that's threatening to people.

03:18:43.000 It's like Rogan will just sit there while someone else is, you know, free-balling on some far-out topic, which, by the way, might be true.

03:18:48.000 Probably truer than the conventional explanation.

03:18:49.000 People are like, I don't know, how can he stand that?

03:18:51.000 You know, he had someone say the pyramids weren't built 3,000 years ago, but 8,000 years ago, and that's wrong!

03:18:55.000 How do you know when the pyramids were built?

03:18:56.000 Second, why do you care if someone disagrees with you?

03:18:58.000 Like, what is that?

03:18:58.000 This weird kind of, like, groupthink.

03:19:01.000 It's almost like, you know, fourth grade.

03:19:02.000 There's always, like, some little girl in the front row who's, like, acting as the, you know, kind of the teacher's enforcer.

03:19:06.000 Like, whip around and be like, sit down!

03:19:07.000 Didn't you hear what Mrs. Johnson said?

03:19:08.000 Sit down!

03:19:09.000 That's, like, the whole American media.

03:19:12.000 How dare you ask that question?

03:19:13.000 And Rogan just seems, like, completely on his own trip, like, doesn't even hear it.

03:19:16.000 He's like, well, really?

03:19:16.000 When were the pyramids built?

03:19:17.000 And I was like, oh, I love that.

03:19:19.000 Yeah, curiosity, open-mindedness.

03:19:20.000 Yes!

03:19:20.000 The thing I admire about him most, honestly, is that he's a good father, he's a good husband, he's a good family man for many years, and that's his place where he escapes from the world to, and it's just beautiful.

03:19:30.000 Without that, man, you're destroyed.

03:19:31.000 Yeah.

03:19:31.000 If I had a wife who was interested at all, in any way, in what I did, I think I would have gone crazy by now.

03:19:37.000 When we get home, we don't, she's like, how was your day?

03:19:38.000 It was great.

03:19:39.000 Oh, I'm so proud of you.

03:19:39.000 That's the end of our conversation about what I do for a living.

03:19:41.000 And that is such a wonderful and essential respite from, you said, how do I not become an asshole to the extent I haven't? 0.98

03:19:46.000 I kind of have. 0.97

03:19:47.000 But how do I have, like, not been, you know, transformed into a totally insufferable megalomaniac who is checking his Twitter replies every day or every minute?

03:19:54.000 It's that.

03:19:54.000 Yeah, you got to have the core of your life has to be solid and enduring and not just ephemeral and silly.

03:19:59.000 So the two of you have known each other for, what, 40 years?

03:20:01.000 We've been together 40 years.

03:20:02.000 Together 40?

03:20:02.000 40 years, yeah, 1984.

03:20:04.000 Aw, he's so humble!

03:20:04.000 He's so humble, he just doesn't know anything!

03:20:07.000 Oh, I don't know, I'm just trying to do my best.

03:20:09.000 Aw.

03:20:35.000 You know, you hear these people... It's actually changed my theology a little bit, not that I have deep theology, but... Like, I grew up in a society in Southern California... I'm so sick of the false modesty I'm over.

03:20:43.000 That's from a different era.

03:20:45.000 When I was little, it was, like, a totally self-created society.

03:20:47.000 I mean, Southern California was... It was the root of libertarianism for a reason.

03:20:50.000 It was like, that's where you went to recreate yourself.

03:20:51.000 And so, the operative assumption there is that you are the sum total of your choices.

03:20:56.000 And that free will is everything.

03:20:58.000 And we never consider questions like, well, why do children get cancer?

03:21:01.000 What do they do to deserve it?

03:21:02.000 Well, of course, nothing, right?

03:21:03.000 Because that would suggest that maybe you're not the sum total.

03:21:05.000 Your choices matter.

03:21:05.000 If I smoke a lot, I get lung cancer.

03:21:07.000 If I use fentanyl, I may OD.

03:21:08.000 Got it.

03:21:08.000 If I don't exercise, I might get fat.

03:21:09.000 Okay.

03:21:10.000 But like on a bigger scale, you're not only the sum total of your choices.

03:21:14.000 Like things happen to you that you didn't deserve, good and bad.

03:21:16.000 And marriage is, and I'll speak for myself, in that case, in my case, just one of them, and I could say, I mean, clearly spending time with the person you're married to, talking, enjoying each other, you know, I have a lot of rituals, we have a lot of rituals that ensure that, but in 40 years, like, you change, you're like a different person, you know, I like did drugs, I was drinking all the time when we met, you know, it's been a long time since I've been done that, I'm very different, and so is she, but we're different in ways that are complimentary and happy, we've never been happier, so, like, how do we pull that off?

03:21:40.000 Just kind of good luck, honestly.

03:21:41.000 And then I see other people.

03:21:41.000 No, I'm not kidding.

03:21:42.000 But that's true.

03:21:43.000 I think it's so important not to flatter yourself if you've been successful at something.

03:21:47.000 The thing I've been most successful at is marriage.

03:21:49.000 But it's not really me.

03:21:51.000 And I haven't.

03:21:51.000 So I think what you're indirectly communicating is it's like humility, I think.

03:21:54.000 It's not even humility.

03:21:55.000 Humility is the result of a reality-based worldview.

03:21:57.000 Okay.

03:21:58.000 Once you see things clearly, then you know that you are not the author of all your successes or failures.

03:22:03.000 And I hate the implication otherwise, because it suggests powers that people don't have.

03:22:07.000 It's one of the reasons I always hated the smoking debate or the COVID debate.

03:22:09.000 Someone would die of COVID if they didn't have the vaccine.

03:22:11.000 See, that's what you get!

03:22:11.000 You smoke cigarettes, you die.

03:22:12.000 Well, shit. 1.00

03:22:13.000 Yeah, if you smoke cigarettes, you're more likely to get lung cancer. 1.00

03:22:15.000 If you don't, whatever.

03:22:16.000 Cause and effect is real.

03:22:17.000 I'm not denying its existence.

03:22:18.000 It's obvious.

03:22:19.000 But it's not the whole story.

03:22:21.000 There are larger forces acting on us.

03:22:22.000 Unseen forces.

03:22:23.000 That's just a fact.

03:22:24.000 You don't need to be some kind of religious nut.

03:22:25.000 And they act on AI too, and you should keep that in mind.

03:22:27.000 The idea that all... Interesting way you said that.

03:22:29.000 No, it's true.

03:22:31.000 It's demonstrably true.

03:22:31.000 We're the only society that hasn't acknowledged the truth of that.

03:22:33.000 And the idea that the only things that are real are the things that we can see or measure in a lab.

03:22:36.000 Like, that's insane. 1.00

03:22:37.000 That's just dumb. 1.00

03:22:38.000 In the religious context... 1.00

03:22:39.000 When you start to talk... That's another red flag.

03:22:43.000 When you start to talk about unseen forces are operating in the world.

03:22:48.000 We're the only... Western civilization is the only society that doesn't acknowledge that.

03:22:53.000 They operate on AI.

03:22:55.000 It's a little sus.

03:22:56.000 Is this guy like a Mason or Kabbalist?

03:23:00.000 Because that sounds like... Unless he's talking about angels and demons.

03:23:04.000 Unless he's a... He's not Catholic as far as I know, right? 0.98

03:23:09.000 I don't even know if he's fully a Christian.

03:23:10.000 He doesn't talk about Jesus.

03:23:11.000 He talks about, I believe in God.

03:23:14.000 Okay, so does everybody.

03:23:18.000 Do you believe in Jesus?

03:23:19.000 Do you believe in Jesus Christ?

03:23:21.000 Has he ever said that before?

03:23:23.000 Maybe he's nominally a Christian, but has he ever said that?

03:23:25.000 Because that sounds like some Mason-like Kabbalist talk when you start to say that kind of stuff.

03:23:32.000 And Peter Thiel happens to believe that, by the way.

03:23:34.000 About AI.

03:23:35.000 So does Arvel.

03:23:36.000 Oh.

03:23:36.000 No.

03:23:55.000 There are very few atheists.

03:23:56.000 I've never actually met one.

03:23:57.000 There are people who pose as atheists, but no one's purely rational.

03:24:01.000 And everyone, I mean this is a cliche for a reason, everyone under extreme stress appeals to a power higher than himself because everyone knows that there is a power higher than himself.

03:24:07.000 So really it's just people who are gripped with a delusion that they're God.

03:24:10.000 No one actually believes that.

03:24:11.000 If you're God, jump off the roof of your garage and see what happens.

03:24:13.000 You know what I mean?

03:24:13.000 No one actually thinks that.

03:24:15.000 But people behave as if it's true.

03:24:17.000 And those people are dangerous.

03:24:18.000 And I will say, by contrast, the only people I trust are the people who know their limits.

03:24:21.000 And I was thinking actually this morning in my sauna, of all the people I've interviewed or met, this is someone I've never interviewed, but I have talked to him a couple of times, the greatest leader I've ever met in the world is literally a king.

03:24:32.000 It's MBC Sheikh Mohammed of Abu Dhabi, who is Muslim.

03:24:35.000 I'm definitely not Muslim. 1.00

03:24:36.000 I'm Christian, Protestant Christian.

03:24:38.000 And so I don't agree with his religion, and I don't agree with monarchies.

03:24:41.000 But he's the best leader in the world that I've ever met.

03:24:44.000 And by far, it's not even close.

03:24:46.000 And why is that?

03:24:47.000 Well, I could bore you for an hour on the subject, but the

03:24:49.000 The reason that he's such a good leader is because he's guided by an ever-present knowledge of his limitations, and of the limits of his power, and of his foresight.

03:24:57.000 And when you start there, when you start with reality, it's not even humility.

03:24:59.000 Humility can be opposed.

03:25:00.000 Like, oh, I'm so, I'm so humble.

03:25:01.000 Okay.

03:25:02.000 Humblebrag is a phrase for a reason.

03:25:03.000 It's like way deeper than that.

03:25:04.000 It's just like, no.

03:25:05.000 Can I, do I have magical powers?

03:25:07.000 Can I see the future?

03:25:08.000 No.

03:25:09.000 That's just a fact.

03:25:10.000 So I'm not God.

03:25:10.000 But I've never seen anybody more at ease with admitting that than MBZ, just a remarkable person.

03:25:15.000 And for that reason, he is treated as an oracle.

03:25:18.000 I don't think people understand the number of world leaders who traipse through his house or palace to seek his counsel.

03:25:23.000 I'm not sure that there is a parallel since, I don't want to get too hyperbolic here, but honestly, since Solomon, where people come from around the world to ask what he thinks.

03:25:35.000 Bro.

03:25:37.000 This guy is so sus, man.

03:25:39.000 This guy is such a spook. 1.00

03:25:42.000 My favorite leader is an Emirati king.

03:25:45.000 And he's the greatest leader since King Solomon.

03:25:48.000 It's like, bro.

03:25:50.000 Why would they be doing that?

03:25:52.000 Because Abu Dhabi's military is so powerful.

03:25:53.000 I mean, he's rich, okay.

03:25:54.000 Massive oil and gas deposits, but like, for a lot of, you know, so's Canada.

03:25:59.000 No one is coming to Ottawa, Ottawa, to ask Justin Trudeau what he thinks.

03:26:01.000 No, it's humility.

03:26:02.000 That's where wisdom comes from.

03:26:04.000 I want to know Tucker's thoughts on Solomon.

03:26:06.000 That would be very informative.

03:26:08.000 What do you think about Solomon, Tucker?

03:26:09.000 I spent my whole life, like, mad at America's leadership class, because it's not just Biden or the people in official positions.

03:26:15.000 It's the whole constellation of advisers and throne-sniffers around them.

03:26:18.000 And it's not that even I disagree with them.

03:26:19.000 It's I'm not impressed by them.

03:26:20.000 I'm just not impressed.

03:26:22.000 They're not that capable, right?

03:26:23.000 So that's what I'm saying about Nikki Haley.

03:26:24.000 Hey, Chad of Chad's in the chat.

03:26:26.000 Oh, I haven't seen Chad of Chad's in a minute.

03:26:29.000 What's going on?

03:26:29.000 I don't think Nikki Haley's the most evil person in the world.

03:26:30.000 I think she's ridiculous, obviously. 0.98

03:26:32.000 And everyone's like, oh, Nikki Haley or Mike Pompeo. 0.99

03:26:34.000 What?

03:26:35.000 Great leaders are so rare that when you see one, you know it right away.

03:26:38.000 It blows your mind.

03:26:38.000 And what blows my mind about Sheikh Mohammed in Abu Dhabi is that everyone in the world knows it.

03:26:43.000 And I've never seen a story on this.

03:26:44.000 And I'm not guessing.

03:26:45.000 I know this is true because I've seen it.

03:26:47.000 Everyone in the world knows it.

03:26:48.000 And so if there's a conflict, he's the only person that people call.

03:26:51.000 Like, everybody calls the same guy.

03:26:53.000 And it's like, he runs this tiny little country, the UAE.

03:26:56.000 I mean, he's the... In Abu Dhabi, there are a bunch of emirates, but he's the president of the country.

03:26:58.000 But still, and it's got a ton of energy and all that wealth and all that.

03:27:01.000 Dubai's got great real estate and restaurants.

03:27:02.000 But really, it's a tiny little country that wasn't even a country 50 years ago.

03:27:05.000 So how did that happen?

03:27:07.000 Purely on the basis of his humility and the wisdom that results from that humility.

03:27:10.000 That's it.

03:27:11.000 What advice would you give to young people?

03:27:13.000 You got four.

03:27:14.000 You somehow made them into great human beings.

03:27:16.000 What advice would you give to people in high school?

03:27:17.000 Have children immediately.

03:27:18.000 Oh, that?

03:27:18.000 Including in high school, yes.

03:27:19.000 I think that.

03:27:20.000 That's all that matters.

03:27:20.000 Like, in the end, you know, again, these aren't even cliches anymore because no one says them, but when I was a kid, people would say, on your deathbed, you never wish you spent more time at work.

03:27:28.000 And I mean, everyone said that it was like one of these things.

03:27:29.000 And now now I don't think Google allows you to say that.

03:27:31.000 It's like, no, you're gonna wish you spent more time at work.

03:27:32.000 Get back to your cube.

03:27:33.000 But I can't overstate from my vantage how true that is.

03:27:38.000 Nothing else matters but your family.

03:27:41.000 And if you have the opportunity, a lot of people are being denied the opportunity to have children.

03:27:45.000 And this messing with the gender roles. 1.00

03:27:46.000 I'm not even talking about the tranny stuff. 0.98

03:27:47.000 I mean, I mean, feminism has so destroyed people's brains and the ability of young people to connect with each other and stay together and have fruitful lives. 0.99

03:27:55.000 It's like nothing's been more destructive than that. 0.96

03:27:57.000 It's such a lie. 1.00

03:27:57.000 It's so dumb. 1.00

03:27:58.000 It's counter to human nature. 1.00

03:27:59.000 Nothing counter to human nature can endure.

03:28:00.000 It can only cause suffering.

03:28:01.000 And that's what it's done.

03:28:02.000 But fight that.

03:28:02.000 Stop complaining about it.

03:28:03.000 Find someone.

03:28:04.000 By the way, everyone gets together, most people get together on the basis, in a Western society where there's no arranged marriages, they get together on the basis of sexual attraction.

03:28:09.000 It's only natural.

03:28:10.000 Get off your birth control and have children. 0.98

03:28:13.000 Oh, I can't afford that.

03:28:13.000 Well, yeah, you'll figure out a way to afford it once you have kids.

03:28:15.000 It's like, it's chicken and the egg, but it's actually not.

03:28:18.000 When you have responsibility, when you have no choice... This is true of men. 1.00

03:28:20.000 I'm not sure if it's true of women, but it's definitely true of men. 0.98

03:28:22.000 You will not achieve until you have no choice.

03:28:24.000 As I always think of men, men do nothing until they have to.

03:28:27.000 But once they have to, they will do anything.

03:28:28.000 That's true.

03:28:29.000 That is true.

03:28:29.000 Men will do nothing unless they have to, but once they have to, they will do anything.

03:28:31.000 I really believe that from watching and from being one.

03:28:33.000 And I would never have done anything if I didn't have to, but I had to.

03:28:36.000 And I would just recommend it.

03:28:36.000 But by the way, even if you don't succeed, it evens your core.

03:28:39.000 I won't!

03:28:53.000 It's beautiful and worth having, and you make a billion dollars?

03:28:55.000 Okay, then you have to deal with your billion dollars, which will be the worst part of your life, trust me.

03:28:58.000 But seeking money for its own sake is a dead end.

03:29:00.000 What you should seek for its own sake is children.

03:29:03.000 Talk about a creative act.

03:29:03.000 Last thing I'll say, the whole point of life is to create, okay?

03:29:06.000 The act of creation, which is like dying in the West, in the arts, and in its most pure expression, which is children, that's all that's worth doing while you're alive, is creating something beautiful.

03:29:15.000 And creating children, by the way, it's super fun.

03:29:16.000 It's not hard.

03:29:17.000 I can get more technical off the air if you want.

03:29:18.000 Yeah, please.

03:29:18.000 I have a lot of thoughts on it.

03:29:19.000 Do you have documents or something?

03:29:21.000 I could draw you a schematic.

03:29:22.000 Oh, thank you.

03:29:23.000 But yeah, that's the greatest thing. 1.00

03:29:24.000 And the fact that corporate America denies... Oh, freeze your ass, I have an abortion! 1.00

03:29:28.000 You're evil! 1.00

03:29:29.000 Are you kidding?

03:29:29.000 Because you're taking from people the only thing that can possibly give them enduring joy.

03:29:33.000 And they are successfully taking it from people, and I hate them for it.

03:29:36.000 You founded TCN, Dr. Carlson Network.

03:29:37.000 What's your vision for it?

03:29:38.000 I have no vision for myself or my career, and I never have, so I'm like the last person to explain.

03:29:42.000 Just go with it.

03:29:43.000 Yeah, I'm an instincts guy, 100%.

03:29:44.000 I have a vision for the world, but I don't have a vision for my life or my career.

03:29:47.000 So really, my vision extended precisely this far.

03:29:49.000 I just want to keep doing what I'm doing.

03:29:51.000 I just want to keep doing what I'm doing.

03:29:52.000 And there was a five-hour period where I wondered if I would be able to, because I feel pretty spry and alert.

03:29:57.000 And I'm certainly deeply enjoying what I'm doing, which is talking to people and saying what I think and learning, constantly learning.

03:30:03.000 But I just wanted to keep doing that.

03:30:04.000 And I also wanted to employ the people who

03:30:08.000 I worked with a fox.

03:30:08.000 I've worked with the same people for years and I love them.

03:30:10.000 And so I had all these people and I wanted to bring them with me.

03:30:12.000 So we had to build a structure for that.

03:30:14.000 But this feels like one of the first times you're really working for yourself.

03:30:16.000 Like there's an extra level of freedom here.

03:30:18.000 Totally, totally.

03:30:19.000 And you know, I'm not, you don't want me doing your taxes.

03:30:21.000 Like I'm good at some things, but I'm really not good at others.

03:30:23.000 So I'm more than be like running a business.

03:30:24.000 No idea.

03:30:25.000 I'm not interested, not a commerce guy, so I don't buy anything.

03:30:27.000 So it's like a whole thing I'm not good at.

03:30:29.000 But luckily, you know, I'm really blessed to have friends who are involved in this who are good at that.

03:30:34.000 So I feel, I feel positive about it, but mostly I am.

03:30:38.000 I'm totally committed to only doing the things that I am good at and enjoy, and not doing anything else, because I don't want to waste my time.

03:30:43.000 And so I'm just getting to do what I want to do, and I'm really loving it.

03:30:46.000 What hope, positive hope, do you have for the future of human civilization in, say, 50 years, 100 years, 200 years?

03:30:51.000 People are great just by their nature.

03:30:52.000 I mean, they're super complicated, but I like people.

03:30:55.000 I always have liked people.

03:30:57.000 You know, if I was sitting with Nikki Haley, who I guess I've been pretty clear I'm not like a mega fan of Nikki Haley's, I would enjoy it.

03:31:02.000 We're good to go.

03:31:24.000 You know, recurring theme in human history.

03:31:26.000 Like, they're mostly bad.

03:31:27.000 And we've got an unusually bad set right now, but we'll have better ones at some point.

03:31:30.000 I just don't want to... I don't... One thing I don't like more than nuclear weapons and more than AI, the one thing that really, really bothers me is the idea of using technology to change the human brain permanently.

03:31:39.000 Because you're tampering with the secret sauce.

03:31:41.000 You're tampering with God's creation.

03:31:42.000 And, um, totally evil.

03:31:44.000 I mean, I literally sat there the other day with Klaus Schwab.

03:31:45.000 I was like, Klaus Schwab! 1.00

03:31:47.000 It's like a total moron. 1.00

03:31:49.000 I'm like 100 years old. 1.00

03:31:49.000 I'm like, there's no idea what's going on in the world. 1.00

03:31:51.000 But he's like one of these guys who, speaking of mediocre, everyone's so afraid of Klaus Schwab.

03:31:54.000 I don't think Klaus Schwab is going to be organizing anything again. 0.98

03:31:55.000 He's just like a total figurehead, like a douchebag.

03:31:57.000 But anyway, but he was talking and he's reading all these talking points, like all of the cool kids are talking about Adapos and whatever. 0.94

03:32:03.000 And he starts talking about it in his way, in his accent.

03:32:05.000 I think it's so important that we follow an ethical way.

03:32:08.000 Always an ethical way.

03:32:09.000 Of course, very ethical.

03:32:09.000 I'm a very ethical man.

03:32:10.000 That we follow the, you know, using technology to improve the human mind and implant the chips in the brain.

03:32:15.000 And I'm like, okay, you have no idea what you're talking about. 0.92

03:32:17.000 You're like as senile as Joe Biden.

03:32:19.000 But what was so striking is that no one in the room was like, wait, what? 1.00

03:32:21.000 You're fucking with people's brains? 1.00

03:32:23.000 Like, what are you even talking about? 1.00

03:32:24.000 Who do you think you are?

03:32:27.000 I mean, you're right.

03:32:28.000 The secret sauce.

03:32:28.000 The human mind is really special.

03:32:30.000 Like, we should not mess with it.

03:32:31.000 We should be very careful.

03:32:33.000 Whatever special thing it does, it seems like it's a good thing.

03:32:36.000 Like, human beings are fundamentally good.

03:32:38.000 Like, these sources of creativity, the creative force in the universe, we don't want to mess with.

03:32:42.000 Oh, I mean, what else matters?

03:32:45.000 I don't understand.

03:32:45.000 I mean, I guess, look, I don't want to seem like the Unabomber, and I'm not.

03:32:50.000 We are in a cabin in the woods.

03:32:50.000 No, I don't.

03:32:51.000 I'm sympathetic to some of his ideas, but not, of course, sending mail bombs to people, because I like people.

03:32:54.000 But, I mean, I don't believe in violence at all.

03:32:57.000 I think the problem with technology, one of the problems with technology is the way that people approach it in a very kind of mindless, heedless way.

03:33:03.000 And I think it's important this idea that it's inexorable and we can't control it.

03:33:05.000 And if we don't do it, someone else will.

03:33:06.000 And there's some truth in that.

03:33:08.000 But it's not the whole story.

03:33:09.000 We do have free will and we are creating these things intentionally.

03:33:13.000 And I think it's incumbent on us.

03:33:14.000 It's a requirement of a moral requirement of us that we ask, like, is this a net gain or a net loss?

03:33:19.000 What extent we can foresee them will the effects be?

03:33:20.000 Et cetera, et cetera.

03:33:21.000 It's like it's not not super complicated.

03:33:23.000 So I just I prize long term thinking.

03:33:24.000 I don't always apply to my own life, obviously.

03:33:26.000 I want to.

03:33:27.000 But, uh, I prize it, and I think that people with power should think about future generations, and I don't see that kind of thinking at all.

03:33:31.000 They all seem like children to me.

03:33:32.000 And, like, don't give children handguns, because they can hurt people.

03:33:35.000 Yeah, fundamentally, you want people in power to be pro-humanity.

03:33:37.000 And we don't want people who are 81 who are gonna die anyway.

03:33:39.000 Why do they care?

03:33:40.000 And by the way, if your track record with your own family is miserable, why would I give you my family to oversee?

03:33:45.000 I just don't... Like, again, these are artistic-level questions that someone should answer.

03:33:49.000 Well, thank you for asking those questions, first of all, and thank you for this conversation.

03:33:54.000 Thank you for welcoming me to the cabin in the woods.

03:33:55.000 Thank you.

03:33:56.000 Thanks for listening to this conversation with Tucker Carlson.

03:33:58.000 To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.

03:34:01.000 And now, let me leave you with some words from Mahatma Gandhi.

03:34:06.000 I think we're good.

03:34:07.000 I think I'm good on the Mahatma Gandhi quote.

03:34:11.000 Yeah, I think we don't.

03:34:13.000 That's unnecessary.

03:34:14.000 Completely unnecessary, but thanks anyway.

03:34:17.000 All right, well there you have it.

03:34:19.000 There's your review of the Tucker Carlson Lex Fridman podcast I'm very interested in what Tucker has to say because of course he's extremely influential now maybe even more so than he was when he was at Fox News and I'm always curious to hear what he says about specific matters not necessarily Russia, but these things like Trump and Israel-Palestine and his upbringing because of course

03:34:49.000 That's the revealing aspect.

03:34:52.000 To know that Tucker's dad was a spy is a lot more revealing than watching years of his show, actually.

03:34:59.000 So very interesting stuff.

03:35:01.000 Not a ton of surprises.

03:35:02.000 Some things that were a little bit kind of like, whoa, okay.

03:35:05.000 Like about most of the deck.

03:35:07.000 Who could have seen that one coming?

03:35:09.000 I could, because I've been saying it for years.

03:35:11.000 Other people have not.

03:35:12.000 But anyway, so that's that.

03:35:16.000 That's the show.

03:35:17.000 It's been three hours.

03:35:18.000 I gotta start my show in a couple hours.

03:35:20.000 I'm gonna try and get it on at like 10.30, 11, okay?

03:35:24.000 I promise!

03:35:25.000 10.30, 11, Central Time.

03:35:28.000 So I don't even really want to stream much longer, because I gotta start getting ready for my next act, for my next stream.

03:35:34.000 So if there's any super chats, I'll take a look at these.

03:35:39.000 If there's a lot of them, I'll read them now.

03:35:45.000 There's like 20.

03:35:47.000 You know what?

03:35:48.000 I'll read them after my show tonight, okay?

03:35:50.000 Or should I read them now?

03:35:51.000 I'll read them!

03:35:52.000 You know what?

03:35:52.000 I'll read them now.

03:35:53.000 Because I'm gonna be frustrated if I have to do it later.

03:35:57.000 Okay, I'll read these right now.

03:35:59.000 And then I'm gonna go.

03:36:01.000 Natasha $17.76 and $15.

03:36:03.000 I've always wondered if you would hire females.

03:36:05.000 With my editing experience, I would consider it a privilege to assist you with content but have held back due to not knowing your stance.

03:36:12.000 The women are America first nevertheless. 1.00

03:36:14.000 Thank you for all that you do.

03:36:16.000 Uh, it depends.

03:36:17.000 I mean, if you're good... If you're good, we're gonna be opening up applications again soon so you can apply and we'll take a look and... Yeah, maybe.

03:36:27.000 I don't know.

03:36:30.000 Well, thank you.

03:36:30.000 Hey, I'm glad to hear you ended your, um...

03:36:58.000 Well, if you're black, then it's fine. 1.00

03:37:01.000 You know, black people should be with black people. 0.99

03:37:03.000 So if you were black, then that's fine. 0.97

03:37:06.000 But yeah, I don't know how much black and how much Hispanic are.

03:37:10.000 If you're like 80% Hispanic, then it's like, oh brother. 1.00

03:37:14.000 But anyway, either way, hey, glad to hear it.

03:37:17.000 I'm glad to hear you're an RCIA.

03:37:19.000 Good for you.

03:37:20.000 I hope you stick with it.

03:37:22.000 And good for you.

03:37:23.000 We need more people to do that.

03:37:27.000 Groim sent $10.

03:37:27.000 Do you find it annoying when you spend an hour monologue painting a clear picture of something and then superchatters repeat it back to you like it's their idea?

03:37:35.000 I'm just annoyed by everything the superch... everything that superchatters say is just... well, not all of it, but most of it is just completely unthinking nonsense.

03:37:47.000 So, that's why.

03:37:49.000 Okay, I don't... You don't never need to clarify.

03:37:51.000 I'm completely uninterested in people clarifying, but thank you regardless.

03:38:17.000 Yeah, maybe.

03:38:18.000 I don't usually do interviews, but maybe.

03:38:20.000 I'm not reading that. 1.00

03:38:21.000 Piece of shit. 1.00

03:38:22.000 That's right. 1.00

03:38:22.000 That's absolutely right. 1.00

03:38:43.000 Yeah, you just don't get it.

03:39:01.000 H3M1NGW4Y sent $10, watching since 2022.

03:39:06.000 Was raised Episcopalian and was a Freemason from 09 to 23.

03:39:10.000 Left it all behind because of you and started going to Mass.

03:39:14.000 Started RCIA with my daughter.

03:39:16.000 God bless you 1626o slash love you man.

03:39:20.000 Love to hear that, man.

03:39:21.000 God bless you.

03:39:22.000 Keep doing it.

03:39:23.000 I love to hear that you're getting your family in the church as well.

03:39:26.000 The Freemasonry, it's evil. 0.73

03:39:28.000 You gotta get away.

03:39:29.000 And you ought to know why.

03:39:30.000 Because it is inherently universalist.

03:39:33.000 They don't... You can be a Muslim mason. 1.00

03:39:36.000 You can be a Jewish mason. 0.97

03:39:37.000 They don't believe in, necessarily, Jesus Christ.

03:39:40.000 And Catholicism is enough. 0.97

03:39:42.000 You don't need some other ritual.

03:39:44.000 You don't need some other thing.

03:39:46.000 Catholicism, the church that Christ founded, is enough. 0.96

03:39:50.000 So you don't need these extraneous rituals with magic and Talmudic practices.

03:39:54.000 So I'm glad to hear that, man.

03:39:57.000 Good for you.

03:39:57.000 God bless you and your family.

03:40:00.000 Oliver Anthony sent $3.

03:40:02.000 I've grown up atheist and last night listened to your advice and for the first time asked God to help strengthen my faith by any means but since then my cat's been missing for 15 hours.

03:40:11.000 Is it already over?

03:40:13.000 Okay, well don't blame God for your cat going missing, okay?

03:40:16.000 Cats are not good pets.

03:40:20.000 Cactus Lamarter sent $50.

03:40:22.000 I've seen an old debate between you and Arthur Sharp.

03:40:25.000 You put him in his place.

03:40:26.000 Has ever apologized to ever since?

03:40:28.000 No, haven't heard from him since.

03:40:30.000 That must have been six years ago, five, six years ago.

03:40:34.000 So no, I haven't heard from him.

03:40:37.000 Hey Nick, what college degrees do you feel like can help a political movement the most and how important is the college that you get into?

03:40:46.000 Well my advice for any Groipers is to go to community college for two years and then apply to the college you want to graduate from because for someone like me and for most people if you don't have money to go to college 1.00

03:41:02.000 It can be extremely cost prohibitive.

03:41:06.000 I went to Boston University.

03:41:09.000 I got $49,000 a year to go there.

03:41:11.000 A lot of it was structured like some of it was grant, some of it was loan.

03:41:15.000 But I got like $49,000 in a scholarship to go there.

03:41:28.000 And the tuition was like $55,000 plus like $10,000 for room and board and all the rest.

03:41:33.000 I mean all together must have been $70,000 per year to go to school.

03:41:41.000 You know, and it was already... I went for two semesters.

03:41:45.000 If I had gone for the full four years, I would have graduated with considerable debt.

03:41:49.000 I mean, not unmanageable, but considerable.

03:41:52.000 With a liberal arts degree in international relations from a great school.

03:41:57.000 I know a girl who I went to school with at the same time. 1.00

03:42:01.000 She's a bitch. 1.00

03:42:04.000 All loans. 1.00

03:42:07.000 $70,000 a year.

03:42:08.000 All loans.

03:42:10.000 For four years.

03:42:13.000 So she's graduating.

03:42:15.000 I mean, I don't know how much of it she paid down.

03:42:16.000 I don't know how much of it she worked, but you just do the simple math on that.

03:42:21.000 You're talking about a considerable amount of debt.

03:42:23.000 That's a mortgage when all is said and done.

03:42:26.000 With a liberal arts degree, you shouldn't do that.

03:42:30.000 So you should follow best practices.

03:42:33.000 If I could do it all over again, and part of me wishes I could, just on the academic side, because I wish I actually stayed in universities,

03:42:41.000 Because I feel like I can't now reach my full potential because I never followed through on that.

03:42:48.000 If I could have done that all over again, I would have gotten an associate's degree, a two-year degree at a community college.

03:42:56.000 I would have then transferred to maybe U of I.

03:43:01.000 Or another school in Illinois so I could get in-state tuition.

03:43:05.000 So I would have went to U of I or maybe tried to get into Northwestern or UChicago.

03:43:10.000 And then I would have graduated from there with much lower tuition because it's in-state tuition and much lower debt because I'd only be going to a major university for two years.

03:43:21.000 And then maybe I would have went to graduate school and then it's different.

03:43:24.000 It's a different story But that is what if you are if you're rich, it doesn't matter if your parents can pay then let your parents pay But and you do whatever you want but if you are like most people and it's cost prohibitive

03:43:39.000 Go to a two-year college.

03:43:40.000 Because I know a lot of people that did that that graduated from very good schools.

03:43:45.000 And you know you got to talk to your own academic advisor if you're in high school or whatever.

03:43:48.000 You got to talk to your own people.

03:43:50.000 I'm just telling you this is what I've heard people do.

03:43:52.000 I know a lot, not an insignificant number of people, they went to a community college for a couple years.

03:43:58.000 They transferred to a school they wanted to go to.

03:44:01.000 And then they graduated that way, saved a lot of money.

03:44:05.000 And you want to go to the best school that you can get into.

03:44:09.000 The best school that you can get into and afford, you should do.

03:44:12.000 So it does matter actually.

03:44:14.000 And in terms of what you should study, it depends on what you want to do.

03:44:18.000 If you want to get involved in politics, you know, most politicians are lawyers.

03:44:24.000 But it's not unheard of that politicians have a business degree.

03:44:31.000 Our political science degree, bachelor's degree in political science or something like that.

03:44:35.000 Don't overthink it.

03:44:36.000 One of the primary, here's the thing, my view on college for the most part, unless you're a serious academic, it's credentialism.

03:44:44.000 Get the credential.

03:44:45.000 That's first and foremost, graduate, and you have the degree, the degree's your ticket.

03:44:50.000 That's one.

03:44:51.000 Two, the other benefit of college besides what you learn is the network.

03:44:56.000 Network.

03:44:57.000 When you're in college, go to the College Republicans or whatever and network.

03:45:02.000 Get involved in campaigns.

03:45:04.000 Do as much political activity as possible.

03:45:06.000 That's what I did for the one year that I was there.

03:45:09.000 Networking.

03:45:09.000 Because if you go to a really good school, it's not necessarily the value of what you learn, although that's part of it.

03:45:16.000 If you go to Columbia, it matters who you meet there.

03:45:20.000 It matters the professors you meet, it matters the other students you meet, because if you go to the Georgetown IR school,

03:45:29.000 Or whatever it is over there.

03:45:32.000 You're going to meet every future Secretary of State, every future State Department employee, every future ambassador, diplomat.

03:45:38.000 They're going to be in your graduating class.

03:45:40.000 They're going to be older, younger, or in your class with you.

03:45:44.000 So it's about the network.

03:45:46.000 And you may find a wife there, too.

03:45:47.000 If you're a high IQ person, you may find a high IQ girl there, as well.

03:45:52.000 That's another... Some people say that's fool's gold. 0.98

03:45:55.000 I think it's worthwhile, because that's where you'd find them.

03:45:58.000 So, that's my advice on that.

03:46:00.000 Well, it's one of the only ones that matters, that's for sure.

03:46:04.000 But thank you, Matt.

03:46:05.000 I appreciate it.

03:46:17.000 Ollie the autistic grope sent $3. 1.00

03:46:20.000 Nick Nicky can't you see sometimes your words just hypnotize me.

03:46:24.000 So awesome!

03:46:25.000 Thank you.

03:46:27.000 Mosey Mo sent $3.

03:46:29.000 Fun fact about Lex Friedman is that he got his start on TikTok live where he did ASMR.

03:46:33.000 Is that true?

03:46:34.000 Whispering very sensually and practically moaning into the mic and tapping it with his acrylic nails.

03:46:38.000 Seriously?

03:46:39.000 M-M-H-G-G-H. 1.00

03:46:41.000 I did not know that.

03:46:54.000 Doesn't seem to be any videos of it.

03:47:04.000 Or did you just make that up?

03:47:18.000 It sounds like you just made that up.

03:47:20.000 That doesn't sound right.

03:47:21.000 That's not real.

03:47:23.000 No one has ever said that, other than you right now.

03:47:26.000 That's made up.

03:47:28.000 Someone says, W-bait.

03:47:30.000 W-troll. 1.00

03:47:33.000 I was gonna say, that sounds like bullshit. 1.00

03:47:34.000 I was like, they didn't bait me! 0.99

03:47:36.000 You said something!

03:47:37.000 I was like, yeah, that doesn't sound right.

03:47:39.000 And then I looked it up.

03:47:42.000 Acrylic nails.

03:47:43.000 Hey, I don't know, man.

03:47:44.000 He's a Jew. 1.00

03:47:45.000 Jews are into weird shit like that. 1.00

03:47:49.000 I'm sure it's just part of his personality. 1.00

03:47:50.000 But it is annoying, right?

03:47:51.000 Wait a second.

03:48:18.000 Doctoral advisor Moshi Kam, Jewish-Israeli electrical engineer.

03:48:24.000 You know who else is a... You know who else is an electrical engineer and a Jew?

03:48:37.000 Bernard Alamaryu.

03:48:41.000 Interesting.

03:48:41.000 I'm sure it's coincidence, though.

03:48:44.000 Father Groyper sent $3, I can't tell if these NJFA loggers on Twitter are all Jewish, or just jaded superchatters pissed you called them retarded. 0.98

03:48:53.000 Because they're 50-50 sub-70 IQ. 0.98

03:48:56.000 They did eat dinner though.

03:48:56.000 That's a mix.

03:48:59.000 Aaron Bushnell sent $3, Russia's artillery advantage is overstated.

03:49:04.000 One laser guided shell can do the work of 20 conventional shells.

03:49:08.000 Ukraine has survived despite a 10 to 1 disadvantage, but the Russians are now catching up.

03:49:13.000 Okay, here we go.

03:49:14.000 Military expert.

03:49:15.000 Sounds like BS.

03:49:17.000 Pragmatic Culture sent $5.

03:49:18.000 If you want to know about World War II, read David Irving's books.

03:49:22.000 Simple as.

03:49:25.000 You're right about that.

03:49:27.000 Very true.

03:49:28.000 Mhoplite sent $100.

03:49:29.000 No message.

03:49:32.000 Thank you.

03:49:32.000 Whoa!

03:49:33.000 Thanks for the big super chat, Hoplite.

03:49:35.000 I appreciate it.

03:49:36.000 God bless, buddy.

03:49:38.000 I'm Hoplite's just like a menace, by the way. 0.95

03:49:41.000 He was up to some real hijinks at, uh... Well, I don't want to dox him, but this guy's a real maniac. 0.91

03:49:47.000 I'll just say that much.

03:49:50.000 Addison Woodbury sent $20, thanks for you work and sacrifice.

03:49:54.000 Looking forward to your documentary that connects dots on JQ.

03:49:57.000 Intuition only goes so far, however convincing to thoughtful observers.

03:50:02.000 God bless.

03:50:03.000 Thank you, yup.

03:50:05.000 Gandalf Gray sent $5, that Tucker Cackle is a total bullet pill.

03:50:09.000 I don't know what a bullet pill is.

03:50:13.000 Okay, all right, that's our last super chat I'm gonna get out of here.

03:50:18.000 I gotta go man.

03:50:19.000 I gotta get ready for my show now cuz that's my life So So I gotta go but hey, thank you for watching.

03:50:28.000 Thanks for the super chats.

03:50:30.000 Hope you enjoyed the stream I'm gonna try and do another one this week about patriot front.

03:50:33.000 It's just this thing came up So I wanted to cover it, but I'll probably do another one of these hopefully earlier in the day later this week or weekend

03:50:43.000 So I'll keep you apprised of that.

03:50:44.000 Smash the follow button!

03:50:46.000 Follow me here on Rumble.

03:50:49.000 And follow me on Telegram.

03:50:50.000 I'll be back here in like two hours, two, two and a half hours to do my show.

03:50:55.000 1030, 11, Central Time.

03:50:57.000 I'll let you know on Telegram if that's gonna happen.

03:51:00.000 But that's it for me.

03:51:01.000 I will see you later tonight.

03:51:03.000 Let me get my outro song.

03:51:06.000 We'll do a little Vultures.

03:51:09.000 And I'll see you guys later tonight.

03:51:10.000 Thanks for watching.

03:51:26.000 Crazy. 0.99

03:51:27.000 Bipolar. 1.00

03:51:28.000 Anti-Semite. 0.98

03:51:31.000 And I'm still the king.

03:51:35.000 Still the king.

03:51:38.000 Still the king.

03:51:40.000 Think the headlines was my kryptonite.

03:51:44.000 Still the king.

03:51:46.000 Still the king.

03:52:43.000 Headlines, what's my crit like? 1.00

03:52:46.000 Bitch! 1.00

03:52:46.000 I'm still the king. 1.00

03:52:49.000 I'm still the king.

03:52:51.000 Paparazzi love me, they show up to everything! 0.99

03:53:13.000 All that word of mouth couldn't take me out After all I let your kids in the house going crazy Cause I still can Still can Still can Deadlines, I gave a shit like Still can Still can 1.00

America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes - February 28, 2024

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