Asatru Folk Assembly - 11⧸9⧸22 Victory Never Sleeps, Episode 18 - Truth

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

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00:03:00.000 Hello again, and welcome everybody this evening to another exciting edition of Victory Never

00:03:22.020 sleeps we are continuing our series on the 10 noble virtues and today we are going to talk about

00:03:32.180 truth inside baseball we have kind of a side discussion amongst leadership of who people

00:03:40.260 think best embodies these virtues amongst our leaders to have on for these discussions

00:03:46.100 and overwhelmingly his peers chose Witten Clifford Erickson to represent truth and I certainly

00:03:54.940 concur with that. Cliff always brings the honesty. You can always count on that whether

00:04:02.120 you want it or you don't want it. The honesty is there and much appreciated. Welcome Cliff.

00:04:08.580 How are you doing tonight? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me and I appreciate my peers

00:04:14.840 you know, recognizing me as being truthful, I guess. I kind of just hope it's people's default,

00:04:21.860 but it's an honor for them to have nominated me. So thanks, everybody.

00:04:29.460 You know, that's one of those things. And I think like common sense, it's not really that common

00:04:36.520 anymore um i've said this a lot of the time but the right thing is not not always i actually it

00:04:45.000 is seldom the easy thing and people have learned it is much easier to if not straight up lie then

00:04:52.760 certainly to be less than truthful um and that's a that's kind of a defining thing that we're

00:04:59.960 we're trying to fix in the astro folks assembly

00:05:02.200 i'm trying to think any top of the top of the program notes to talk to you guys about anybody

00:05:10.040 who is within reasonable possible getting their distance we've got uh feast of the iron hair

00:05:17.640 yard in oklahoma tomorrow through sunday i'm going to be flying out for that early early in the

00:05:25.220 morning and uh yeah anybody who is interested reach out over in the side chat we can get you

00:05:30.040 connected with your local folk builder, there is still time to show up and be part of that if

00:05:35.000 you're able to. Other stuff, this is going to be our second week on a couple of new platforms. We

00:05:42.960 are simulcasting on VK and Odyssey this week, as well as Twitter, Entropy, and here where I assume

00:05:52.520 most of you listening to me on YouTube. So anybody who wants to participate tonight in any

00:05:59.760 super chats to get your question up at the top please go over to entropy and we appreciate that

00:06:07.020 anybody that just wants to throw us a tip here or there contribute we always appreciate that

00:06:11.760 and you can do that on entropy as well um something to note that we are kind of in the

00:06:18.960 midst of we are trying to buy the land for sigerheim we are very close in that process we're

00:06:27.580 getting down to the wire on some things. And we certainly need all the help we can get as far as

00:06:34.860 generosity for donations to get that down payment in. We have been trying now for a little bit over

00:06:42.480 a week, and we've got about 10% of that down payment raised as far as contributions from you

00:06:48.260 guys go. So we really appreciate it. And if you want to help out, Nick threw the link up.

00:06:53.180 and uh yeah as you guys get questions this evening um please go ahead and throw them

00:07:00.020 over into the side we promise we will we will get to those and make sure your question gets

00:07:04.560 answered and cliff tell us what truth means to you what does truth mean to me um well as i

00:07:15.240 mentioned i kind of assume it's the default but i suppose it's not truth is

00:07:19.540 i guess there's there's honesty and then there's truth right honesty is telling the truth what

00:07:29.740 and that's a lot easier to define it's you know not lying not um manipulating people

00:07:37.660 through subterfuge anyway you know encouraging people that's fine um but truth itself um

00:07:46.440 um it's it's what is and

00:07:52.440 and is not changeable um you know we can we can use our will to shape the world but truth is

00:08:05.120 all of that that we either cannot change or it's the way things are now you know that

00:08:13.460 um you know the the sky is blue is is a truth right um it's not true everywhere and maybe not

00:08:23.260 here forever but the sky is blue is is obviously a true statement on on earth in midgard um

00:08:31.420 gosh i guess i should have thought of that more before i uh i came on but it's you know the

00:08:41.640 the unchangeable facts or laws or or essence of of nature or or being

00:08:51.360 well you know we're picking up on some of the side chat over here and one of the things that's

00:08:59.720 interesting is truth is so fundamental it's hard to when you try to get to etymology and you try

00:09:07.700 get to definitions you have to use language to describe those words and there's certain

00:09:13.860 core values that don't really it's hard to imagine a root from them or something that

00:09:20.420 predates them to define them truth is perhaps the most basic element of as somebody put in

00:09:27.140 the side of conforming to reality um one thing that i think is very fundamental about uh as far

00:09:34.980 as the value of truth is especially in today's world where there's such a high uh social value

00:09:45.140 on not offending and on not triggering anybody if you don't have a uh an honest assessment of where

00:09:54.980 you are and how reality is you can't ever begin to make that more to your liking you can't change

00:10:02.660 your circumstances or change yourself unless you have a an accurate gauge of where you currently

00:10:10.500 are and you know where you want to go and so i think it's it's fundamental and i like that it's

00:10:15.860 you know early on in our list of virtues is it's it's necessary to proceed from a place of truth

00:10:23.220 and the other thing that our ancestors certainly valued about truth and we still answer uh value

00:10:28.900 today and it's one of the reasons that i that i value my friendship with you cliff so much

00:10:34.340 is it's hard to have a relationship that's meaningful if there's not truth exchanged

00:10:42.580 i've seen this in uh just in my life growing up my mom was always she's always been one of those

00:10:50.100 people that smiles and nods and says everything's fine and her relationships with people is always

00:10:58.100 very very surface level because she learned the skill of fundamentally basing everything on

00:11:06.260 niceties and white lies and i don't say that in any way to be insulting of my mother there's a

00:11:12.020 generation of people that that's just the way you do things is tell people what they want to hear

00:11:18.820 and you don't air any kind of dirty laundry and you don't uh you know you behave a certain way

00:11:25.460 that's on the surface and i've watched it really limit the deep friendships and deep relationships

00:11:31.620 that she had in her life and it's kind of a important lesson i learned that way true frith

00:11:37.860 and uh beyond that friendship is is based so much on on being able to count on getting

00:11:43.780 getting honest information and honest feedback be it verbal or emotional from the people that

00:11:49.460 you interact with so i have a question come up from nick is there an esoteric aspect to truth

00:12:03.060 cliff what are your thoughts

00:12:06.820 well i think so yes um i i actually while matt was talking for a minute there i

00:12:14.740 wasn't really satisfied with you know my my definition of truth and so i went and i i

00:12:21.380 wiktionary it because wiktionary is you know the true facts of the universe right and um

00:12:28.580 it the word truth comes from proto-indo-european i don't know if i'm going to say this right but

00:12:34.660 drew which means tree which comes from deru which means firm or solid so it actually is a lot closer

00:12:43.220 to what i was saying that i then i guess i gave myself credit for um it you know it's the

00:12:51.060 the hard facts you know the

00:12:57.300 the concrete matter of things and um it's interesting that you asked the question about

00:13:02.340 the esoteric meaning of truth just after i looked that up because um you know we have

00:13:08.740 the world tree and it's what the nine worlds are structured on what they're what they're

00:13:16.100 hanging on i think is how it's put and the worlds you know they exist in in reality

00:13:28.740 is one way to interpret that if the word truth actually you know comes from tree from our our

00:13:35.460 ancestors understanding of the universe you know and it's not just our people that have this concept

00:13:42.180 of a world tree of you know the axis monday it's it's fundamental to

00:13:52.100 i mean i think all people's in the northern hemisphere actually it's it's it's something

00:13:56.260 that's so fundamentally i'm going to say true you're not supposed to use the word that you're

00:14:00.900 trying to talk about when you're describing it but it's tough to do with this one but it's

00:14:05.460 it's fundamental to everything that um that that are that are that we can that we can observe um

00:14:14.900 and i think that a lot of our people's understanding of spirituality comes from

00:14:21.380 observing the stars from observing the trees from observing animals and just the way that the world

00:14:27.940 works um you know scientific observation doesn't make the gods it's not like we created them

00:14:37.060 because we i mean some people say that but it's not that we created thor because we needed a way

00:14:42.740 to explain thunder it's the other way around that we started to understand thor because we could see

00:14:47.140 thor in the world through thunder and lightning um

00:14:51.460 um but yeah i think there's an esoteric part to to truth i mean it

00:14:58.820 it's almost an upside down question i guess isn't esotericism

00:15:03.940 all about getting to truth almost that that's the tool to

00:15:09.220 to find what is true and to best understand the world you know both natural and supernatural

00:15:18.180 natural as fully as one can you know that's one of the things with esoterics is there is

00:15:29.220 there is useful esoterics and then there is masturbatory escapism esoterics and you know I

00:15:41.220 often define that as basement wizardry often but very seriously amongst our people one is based on

00:15:48.660 truth one is based on better understanding the universe better understanding your place in it

00:15:56.500 and then working with that whether you like the answers you get or not and the other is

00:16:03.860 quite literally vent you know spending your time in the land of make-believe

00:16:08.820 diluting yourself with you know fluffy words that make you feel powerful when you in fact aren't

00:16:17.620 so i think it's kind of an important definer in esoterics one of the things um

00:16:28.180 and and we see this all around us to go with the tree analogy or the tree relationship

00:16:35.540 when we see the generation of people that we're watching come up now that aren't based in truth

00:16:43.300 but are based in wishful thinking and don't know what gender they are and you know disabilities

00:16:50.740 aren't really disabilities they're just different abilities and all these things that are

00:16:54.980 fundamentally untrue these people are quite literally rootless they don't have those solid

00:17:01.140 things to to to hearken to or to come back to um i noticed that for a way back when i used to work

00:17:09.220 with emotionally disturbed children and uh you know you'd watch all of the participation trophies

00:17:17.620 and the feel-good things that aren't really based on true things and on values you can take you can

00:17:24.260 shatter illusions in an instant but you can't shatter truth i watched and you know anytime

00:17:30.580 those kids were awarded some illegitimate thing it did very very little for them it may make them

00:17:39.380 feel good at a moment but i watched those kids go through terrible things in their life and if they

00:17:44.580 could claim to one true victory they had over something or one thing they actually won by

00:17:50.100 merit and by truth they hold on to that in the darkest times and no matter what lives life throws

00:17:56.020 at them they can't take away the fact that you know on september 30th 2003 in second grade

00:18:06.020 you know spelling bee you won that doesn't go away no matter what else happens that's a fact

00:18:11.860 and you can rely on fact you can hold on to it i think from an esoteric standpoint one of the things

00:18:16.980 that i've found particularly valuable um and i think that some of you guys watching may be

00:18:23.860 familiar with this but the nine doors of midgard uh by dr stephen flowers

00:18:30.820 that's a really interesting curriculum but one of the first things that they have you do is

00:18:36.500 create a list of of your positive characteristics and the negative things about yourself and to be

00:18:43.940 brutally honest and the value of this list is in that honesty or in that truth and if you're

00:18:50.660 honest with yourself about your negatives and you go back and reevaluate it it doesn't sound

00:18:58.340 esoteric but it's the foundation that you build your esoterics upon that has been meaningful to

00:19:04.820 me and i still go back and look at that list from time to time that i started many years ago and see

00:19:12.020 you know what progress i've made on on those negative things about myself so being honest

00:19:16.900 and truthful with yourself is i don't think in and of itself it's esoteric but it is the foundation

00:19:24.900 to which every meaningful esoteric is built upon um we have question have you read dr jordan

00:19:32.820 peterson's 12 rules for life he has a chapter called tell the truth or at least don't lie

00:19:40.020 i have not cliff have you read that i have not but i agree with the subject uh the title of the

00:19:45.860 chapter it's a life gets complicated when you start having to maintain lies i mean like i've

00:19:54.100 told lies before you know i was a kid i was a teenager and it there's this like sense of dread

00:20:03.060 constantly when you have stuff out there that's not that's not real that's not truthful it's just

00:20:10.020 it you know for for me at least telling the truth and being truthful is most of the time not always

00:20:17.780 there's always exceptions but it's actually easier in the long run like in the moment saying what

00:20:22.740 people want to hear might be easier but on the whole absolutely not it's a lot of work to maintain

00:20:29.940 an alternate reality

00:20:31.540 no i absolutely um that's one of the i don't know it's one of the things that i've also said on this

00:20:43.120 program about trying to structure your life in a way that everything's congruent if you're wearing

00:20:48.920 different masks and you've got to pretend to be a different person around each of these different

00:20:53.900 audiences the more you've got to juggle those things and we've got to maintain illusions the

00:21:00.600 the harder and like Cliff said, the more stressful things are in the long run.

00:21:05.780 I've watched and telling the truth is like vomiting in a way. And hear me out on this.

00:21:14.480 So it's going to get out there anyway. And you can spend a lot of time making yourself

00:21:19.860 uncomfortable trying to hold back from telling the truth on it. But once you finally do it,

00:21:25.820 then it's done and then you can relax and it's over with um brush your teeth there you go um

00:21:34.180 but yeah i think that's that's really important and also the title of that uh chapter in dr

00:21:39.740 peterson's book and i have no idea if this correlates to the information in it but

00:21:44.760 there is fundamental honesty that you can be dishonest and not technically tell a lie

00:21:57.080 and i think the truth that we value uh in this virtue context is the idea of being truthful

00:22:06.660 not so much as the legalistic point of if you in fact told somebody a lie or not because misleading

00:22:14.280 is dishonest as well. And I think that's kind of an interesting nuance to this discussion.

00:22:22.080 Yeah, you don't have to tell the whole truth all the time. There's plenty of circumstances

00:22:26.100 where that would be inappropriate. We have to do this in AFA leadership to maintain

00:22:32.600 confidentiality and confidences when members come to us with problems and maybe somebody

00:22:40.100 asks us about it and we say it's taken care of that's not the whole story of course but that's

00:22:46.420 as much as somebody might need to know um or even just like you know organizational details that

00:22:54.460 would be inappropriate if they're out there like having a surprise party for someone right

00:22:58.040 it's it the full truth is not the best way to implement a surprise party so

00:23:03.280 yeah well that's you you raise another point there too i think oftentimes people feel compelled to lie

00:23:15.840 because they don't realize they have the option of just not answering people you know none of

00:23:24.980 your business is an appropriate answer i'm not going to tell you is appropriate is an appropriate

00:23:31.320 answer, I would appreciate all of those answers better than somebody lying to me just to get me

00:23:38.480 to leave them alone. And I think that, I think we often do that. And this kind of, there's themes in

00:23:45.300 some of these shows, but Alan pointed this out with the idea of speaking intentionally. Very

00:23:52.220 often we get in this habit of seemingly inconsequential untruth because it's just easier

00:24:01.040 or we perceive it's just easier that way in the flow of conversation, it's worth those extra few

00:24:06.720 seconds to think about it and be like, you know what, that information's private. Like Cliff said

00:24:12.120 with the confidentiality, you know, I don't have to lie to still not break confidentiality. I can

00:24:19.600 straight up say, hey, I can't tell you that, or I'm not going to tell you that or any other thing.

00:24:24.820 And I think something else to bring up that's also very relevant is you don't have to be rude.

00:24:34.640 Like there's ways to deliver truth that's kind and you can you can pad truth, not with dishonesty, but with politeness.

00:24:50.200 There's there's ways to do it.

00:24:51.700 I think sometimes people fear that if they're honest, it's going to necessarily be rude.

00:24:57.520 And I think there are artful ways around that.

00:25:02.620 Daniel asks, Wittencliffe, would you agree that honesty isn't synonymous with truth?

00:25:10.300 Yes.

00:25:10.720 um honesty is telling the truth but the truth itself is

00:25:18.720 uh a deeper concept like we talked about a little bit earlier

00:25:24.420 yeah it's it's tricky because i think

00:25:33.100 honesty is expressing truth whereas truth exists in general honesty is the display of truth be it

00:25:44.820 verbal or otherwise yeah if there were no humans there would still be truth the truth might be

00:25:51.680 there are no humans but there would be no honesty if there were no creatures to communicate about it

00:25:58.060 got a another question here what do you think when someone says my truth it seems to me like

00:26:14.140 they are saying it has nothing to do with actual reality what are your reactions to that cliff

00:26:19.340 I agree completely that they are intentionally detaching themselves from actual reality they are you know they're all bubble boys I mean they have their own little world and they when they say my truth they they are essentially saying that they get to create their own laws of

00:26:49.120 nature you know and some of them may not be a very big deal um some of them may be a huge deal

00:26:56.320 that's going to cause lots of problems for the people around them if you know they're expected

00:27:00.800 to cater to these personal truths um context matters i suppose you know somebody could say

00:27:08.640 my truth in in a context where it isn't quite as negative as i'm i'm taking it but these days

00:27:17.200 the way that people use it out there i think it's largely them uh excusing themselves from the actual

00:27:24.400 truth yeah you know i've i've got a couple of thoughts on it i think that it's one of those

00:27:32.320 things that maybe originally didn't have such a negative meaning and has become completely

00:27:40.000 developed of one uh now whenever somebody says that it seems to be a preface to

00:27:48.240 them telling you something that's not true like let me tell you my truth and then some

00:27:54.160 woke nonsense that doesn't conform to any kind of reality i think that

00:28:01.360 i've heard the term used before in

00:28:04.720 saying what you believe to be true even against popular opinion or popular um

00:28:18.160 perception as if on uh like testifying about something to go you know tell your truth

00:28:26.000 meaning maybe express something that is true to you as far as a subjective experience goes

00:28:34.400 but yeah in general i think that when somebody specifies that it's their truth

00:28:38.560 as opposed to other people's truth it's probably because it's not truth at all

00:28:44.320 um oh we've got a got a super duper chat from cory proudfoot for ten dollars thank you so

00:28:52.480 much we really appreciate that when we fail to speak when we fail to speak hard truths

00:28:59.200 we keep others in denial. When we lie, we force others into delusion. I think there is truth in

00:29:08.100 that comment, Corey. Sounds right to me. Something else I noticed over in the...

00:29:19.420 Oh, apparently that is a quote from Dr. Peterson. And yeah, I tend to agree with that, certainly.

00:29:26.000 um over on the side we've got somebody quoting the have them all for us and i think this raises

00:29:33.600 an interesting thing for us to talk about an honorable friend deserves truth but a false friend

00:29:39.600 has forfeited all right to it and thus deception may be repaid with lies if necessary to avoid ruin

00:29:47.520 as stated in the have them all so i think that's a have them all paraphrase there

00:29:50.960 but certainly that that is what the have them all says in the fundamentals and i think that's

00:29:58.240 an important nuance because these things are our core values doesn't

00:30:07.040 doesn't mean they're not things that we're capable of acting differently with if there's purpose or

00:30:14.320 there's intent but it does mean it should be our default setting and i certainly think it means

00:30:21.040 it's what we owe to other noble people who are acting nobly um but yeah you're you're correct

00:30:29.200 and by extension the all-father is correct by advising that uh you know folks that treat you

00:30:36.000 dishonestly are are not entitled to being treated honestly by you and certainly there's there's

00:30:42.640 tactics and context involved just another another cliff ism cliff is always the guy that um

00:30:50.480 makes the point in any of our internal discussions about how context is is everything in in some of

00:30:56.880 these things and i think that the context matters there specifically what are your thoughts about

00:31:01.440 it cliff i think um the the use in that translation of the the havamol stanza there um if it was

00:31:11.200 Because sticking to the way we framed honesty and truth in our conversation here, it may have used the word honesty more than truth, because if we're holding up truth as unchanging and eternal, then what that stanza is talking about is really honesty.

00:31:30.120 You know, it is not immoral to use deception on a battlefield or in politics or something like that.

00:31:40.680 Those are things that you should be doing because they're in your best interest and the best interest of your people, your tribe, your family, your unit, whatever the group that you are devoted to and responsible for.

00:31:55.980 um so in a way um you know lying to your enemy is truthful i think that's what you're supposed to do

00:32:08.140 um because you know it's like when when you get these you know irs scam calls you you should not

00:32:15.020 tell them your social security number and that doesn't make you a bad person right so

00:32:20.880 yeah no um absolutely and i think that most of the time when we're talking about these values

00:32:30.400 and some of them don't have a social component they all can be applied socially but this one

00:32:36.560 has kind of a i suppose it comes with the the conflating of truth and honesty because i do

00:32:42.960 think the two are very intimately related and worth talking about in the same breath

00:32:47.760 but truth exists regardless of social circumstance honesty is a characteristic

00:32:56.520 informed by truth that is of value in the standard when dealing with noble people who

00:33:04.740 are you know that's that's the default when dealing with people that you have no enmity

00:33:10.440 with. But yeah, and tactically, there's, there's a lot of deception to where, you know, there's

00:33:20.260 levels of deception, depending on the person that you're dealing with. But a fundamental of all of

00:33:25.880 that, like Cliff said, is the more you maintain truth regularly, and the less deception you have

00:33:33.120 to manage, the better, because it once you say it, it's all, it's all something you have to keep

00:33:38.680 track of and manage if it's not fundamentally true uh we also have another super chat from

00:33:45.240 joe manning with 41 us dollars thank you so much for that joe we appreciate it as a side note

00:33:53.000 the down payment on sigerheim if every afa member donated 41 we would have that in the

00:33:59.640 bag right now so uh i appreciate that joe and thanks for doing your part he says in light of

00:34:05.480 the have them all quote have either of you had an experience where you had difficulty reconciling

00:34:11.560 honesty with either tactics or kindness cliff i'm gonna let you go first on that

00:34:20.760 i i believe the answer is yes i'm trying to think of a specific instance um i mean certainly um

00:34:29.560 um people have to do that um the short answer is yes i'll i'll think and see if i can come

00:34:43.000 up with a more detailed example but i think of course we all have

00:34:50.440 well thanks cliff i uh i fed you the question so that i would have time to think about my answer

00:34:55.480 yeah so and and i don't want to short change your question i'll absolutely give you a good

00:35:05.880 answer as it occurs to me but on the top and i suppose this is a this is a good thing for a

00:35:12.600 number you know for quite a few years now i have tried very hard to

00:35:18.520 be truthful and to get out of the habit of being tempted to be dishonest out of convenience or out

00:35:30.200 of um things like that i can't think of tactically

00:35:38.520 times you know i'm trying to think because i want to answer your question and certainly

00:35:42.280 there have been times that have been difficult to reconcile certainly with tactics

00:35:47.640 and with kindness and i'm also certain there's times where i've lied for both of those reasons

00:35:53.640 in the course of my life um tactically

00:36:06.280 i have let people so early on with afa stuff i suppose this is a small one and i don't feel bad

00:36:12.360 about it but just as as a note i've let people believe things that aren't necessarily true like

00:36:19.160 it always entertained me early on and we've certainly grown since then but when our member

00:36:23.560 number was very much smaller people would ask me you know how many members are in the afa

00:36:29.480 and you know lately i've gotten very frank with just saying out loud right now we've got 932

00:36:36.120 members but at the time you know i i'd respond by well how many members do you think are in the afa

00:36:43.240 and they'd tell me like tens of thousands and you know these spectacular numbers and i would kind

00:36:49.640 of nod and move on and it wasn't really dishonest but i would certainly let them continue thinking

00:36:55.720 that uh that we were more successful than we were i think that's a really small thing i certainly

00:37:00.600 don't feel bad about that but i that's just the quickest tactical dishonesty i think uh that i

00:37:07.960 can think of right now out of kindness this is i'm sure that i have and i'm not trying to skirt the

00:37:16.120 question but something i've always really valued about myself in my friendships in my life i've

00:37:24.040 tried really hard throughout my adult life to be honest when people ask my opinion and never just

00:37:32.920 tell them what they want to hear specifically so that they knew they could trust my opinion

00:37:41.320 um because i i i value that in others and i really want people to have that in me like when

00:37:49.160 they ask my opinion i'm going to tell them and it may make my negative commentary not

00:37:58.520 make them feel good but it means they can take my compliments to the bank and they can trust

00:38:04.120 that when i say they're doing something well that i really mean it and i even you know i even do

00:38:08.840 this with children or whatever i try not to overly flatter something to where if i say something is

00:38:14.680 done well, that it really means that. Because again, I think that you can put trust in that

00:38:21.460 and it puts your mind at ease if you can believe the advice you're getting. But if you have a

00:38:25.880 friend that just wants to tell you what you want to hear, it may be nice, but it doesn't give you

00:38:31.160 peace of mind and it doesn't help you sleep at night. But I promise as this conversation goes

00:38:36.540 on, if I think of other instances, I'll put those out there for you. I've thought of a few

00:38:42.060 types of things they're not i can't identify them as like specific instances more like scenarios

00:38:48.780 that i know i've been in um so i don't know if this applies to the the tactically part of the

00:38:57.740 question per se um and this one's kind of more of a fun answer but i mean i've bluffed in poker

00:39:03.560 um you know and that's expected that's part of the rules of the game right but um

00:39:09.260 that's a dishonesty that's that's there that is you know on purpose and expected

00:39:16.000 as far as um you know having to do to tell truths or to be honest and you know in situations that

00:39:25.020 are difficult um i i have um there's a couple things i have you know let people fail at things

00:39:33.780 because it's better for them to learn things the hard way um this is true professionally this is

00:39:40.260 true when raising children this is true um you know with with afa leadership sometimes i'll see

00:39:47.380 a mistake in progress and maybe just let it play out because

00:39:51.620 uh a lecture as opposed to real experience is just never as good um

00:39:57.540 Um, I think everyone has been in the situation where you have to break up with someone that

00:40:05.960 you're in a relationship with and they haven't done anything wrong.

00:40:10.980 It's, you know, literally the cliche, it's, it's not you, it's me, where you are just

00:40:15.940 not wanting to continue that.

00:40:19.680 And, you know, you have to hurt them to do what's best for everybody involved.

00:40:24.120 so that you know is is something that i think most people can relate to and um specifically

00:40:30.680 relating to us true um i have had um to speak to a few people that wanted to be members who

00:40:38.680 were were not suitable for membership um and to tell them this the reasons for that and to get

00:40:47.160 them in a direction that's going to be more healthy for them um but knowing that you know

00:40:54.040 i'm saying no that's not something they want to hear and um you know to to try to be helpful with

00:41:01.240 that but also with the you know the expectation of they may just not like what i'm saying

00:41:06.600 so tyler uh appreciate you just donated ten dollars thank you so much tyler

00:41:17.720 um and he says very fitting topic for the end of an election cycle looking forward to catching the

00:41:23.400 whole show tomorrow hail um yeah a random time for a side note i guess folks that want to listen

00:41:30.920 to this at a different time certainly you can watch the video at various times but also

00:41:37.480 um on spotify this is all this is put out as a podcast on every friday so if you're interested

00:41:46.360 in listening on fridays we have these up as podcasts i was thinking i was thinking of another

00:41:55.320 one uh tactically uh joe so in my in my career bouncing i have tactically um

00:42:06.120 altered perception when when dealing with folks um

00:42:14.120 just putting this out there sometimes uh you know especially when things are on camera

00:42:18.920 the crowd hears what you say more than they observe what happens so if you're in an altercation

00:42:26.040 with somebody whether you want to be in the altercation or not sometimes it's tactically

00:42:31.240 sound you very loudly on camera and in front of the crowd say sir please stop fighting sir stop

00:42:35.800 fighting me sir please stop resisting me i don't want to fight you because that looks really good

00:42:41.800 uh if anything happens down the road but um sometimes you may actually want to be involved

00:42:47.640 in the altercation and uh maybe more active participant in it than you than you want to admit

00:42:54.600 um that that may or may not have been a scenario that that uh that i know something about sometimes

00:43:02.040 allegedly um

00:43:07.800 so another so we've got a three-parter here i'm gonna try to read this without butchering it

00:43:13.880 because there's a lot of things to it um can truth be determined this from danny can truth

00:43:19.960 be determined from pure reason or is reliance on pure reason unreasonable and illogical without a

00:43:28.040 metaphysical underpinning since we cannot test philosophical truths without accepting that things

00:43:36.040 can be true in nature yet entirely understandable by nature uh philosophical truths cannot be tested

00:43:46.040 as can material ones in a lab it seems to me that reliance on a materialistic worldview

00:43:53.160 does not comport to the idea of philosophical truths could exist let alone be knowable

00:43:59.400 there's a lot there and i want us to try to respond to that as best as we can but we may

00:44:09.260 need to refer back to the question to do that cliff what are your thoughts on that i think

00:44:15.300 they have whole college courses about that question um i think the

00:44:21.100 i guess the answer is yes i mean there you know

00:44:28.780 there are truths that you cannot prove um directly anyway um so you know that it's it's

00:44:40.760 correct that um you know that that that rational reasoning or that that scientific methods may not

00:44:49.040 be able to to verify some truths um it may be worth the attempt though because we probably

00:44:56.800 don't know which ones those are until actually going through the process um i mean this is a

00:45:04.160 question where we can you know we could go to plato or we could go to discrete mathematics

00:45:09.440 and start drawing truth tables and you know there's just a lot in in that question i think

00:45:16.240 you know if if if you're asking you know can we determine if the existence of the gods is true

00:45:26.960 we can observe evidences of that we know that they're true because we see things in our lives

00:45:37.600 and in the world that indicate that yes they they exist um but i don't think you're gonna get

00:45:44.800 at, you know, a scientifically vetted and republished paper proving the existence of

00:45:53.260 something metaphysical or spiritual?

00:45:59.620 So as a as a question to ponder, I think that it's it's a valuable exercise.

00:46:12.340 But like so much with Ausatru that, you know, perhaps is frustrating, but in the spirit

00:46:19.580 of truth is worth mentioning, there's a lot of gray area to things.

00:46:26.740 And I think that an attempt at honesty is valuable, even if every particular of it doesn't

00:46:36.220 happen to bear out factually.

00:46:38.040 if the intention is truthful we do ourselves a disservice acting as though because we can't

00:46:48.440 prove everything to be 100 true that then nothing is true there's certainly things that are

00:46:58.280 that are true and that aren't even if they're 85 true versus 15 not true

00:47:04.920 um we letting perfect be the enemy of good in that is stifling and i think prevents us from

00:47:15.800 from being virtuous people in a way um like there's there's schools of philosophy that that

00:47:23.320 you know is existence real or are we living in somebody else's you know matrix or somebody else's

00:47:31.080 Is, you know, imagination, is existence relevant to the individual perceiving?

00:47:38.240 All of these questions are really interesting to think about sometimes.

00:47:44.000 But I think that too often they become a dodge towards, you know, living honestly.

00:47:51.860 There's things that are true that we all know are true.

00:47:54.980 and to to act as though they're not because we can't empirically prove them beyond any possible

00:48:03.860 shadow of any doubt on a quantum level misses the you know forgive the overuse here but it

00:48:13.040 misses the truth of the equation and I say this about our lore and this brings it back to

00:48:18.440 metaphysics. Our lore is not literally true all the time. But

00:48:25.400 our lore is metaphysically true. So often truth is described

00:48:33.200 in analogy or in colorful story form, that is not meant to be

00:48:41.440 literally true, but expresses truth. And I think that that

00:48:46.220 hear on things that materially are impossible to prove 100%, I still think that you can approach

00:48:58.140 truth without, you know, without defining it to the nanomolecule. I think things are still

00:49:06.180 generally true or not true. And I'm not sure if that's the meat of the question, but I think

00:49:13.280 it gets towards it and uh again i we want to strive for perfection but i think that we do

00:49:22.520 ourselves a disservice letting perfect be the enemy of good you go with the best thing you have

00:49:27.060 at your disposal some of this it occurs to me with your question involves things that um are

00:49:33.640 like issues of belief you know whether we believe in material reality or not i think that most of

00:49:41.220 us know material reality exists and it's a thing and it's real um but when we talk about a person's

00:49:48.100 faith that is a situation where i think that my truth may have an application because i can say

00:49:55.300 on a polygraph with a thousand percent honesty that odin has interacted with me and i mean that

00:50:04.180 100% true, but other people listening, it does not conform to their understanding of what they

00:50:11.440 know to be true. And same in the inverse with things. So I think that that's a gray area that

00:50:19.000 perhaps does touch on what you're talking about and on the previous question in a different way.

00:50:25.560 I think it's fun that you mentioned, or at least hinted at simulation theory,

00:50:29.980 because i've always taken issue with simulation theory because i don't think it matters it's

00:50:35.920 like the most bogus question that i can imagine because if you prove that we're all in a simulation

00:50:43.540 right then what is what's the point in that is it a way to find an excuse to commit heinous crimes

00:50:49.300 without consequence except that in the simulation there will be consequences so it's still reality

00:50:57.920 It's I've I've always had a problem with simulation theory because it seems like it's an excuse to not have to like literally a way to create my truth or to excuse oneself from reality, except that it in no practical way actually does that.

00:51:18.900 yeah I think that um that's that's one of those things that when I read esoteric books and and

00:51:28.580 they venture into it I start eye rolling and and taking issue with because I think it it skips the

00:51:34.660 point if if your navel gazing prevents you from acting in reality then it loses a lot of value

00:51:42.820 I've known so many, I say so many, I've known a number of people that have wasted

00:51:50.280 vast quantities, if not the entirety of their life, pondering truth and refusing to act until

00:51:59.800 they had absolute certainty of truth. And so they end up not doing anything. I think you've got to

00:52:07.080 conform to what's the truest you can understand and by all means if your understanding of the

00:52:14.600 truth evolves over time then then move you know trend towards the more truthful but you gotta

00:52:21.960 you gotta pick something and go with it and and i think there's a tremendous value in that

00:52:26.760 and as far as truth plays into what i just said it's important to be honest with ourselves on

00:52:34.920 things that we don't know if we think something's mostly correct to still maintain in our mind the

00:52:42.280 openness of re-evaluating it for truth i think that honors our virtue that we speak about

00:52:49.880 and also is a very useful skill for us to have and it's hard for a lot of people i know it

00:52:56.120 takes practice to have that um next question is from travis is it okay to lie to save someone's

00:53:08.440 feelings cliff i don't think so no um if if the wife asked me if she looks fat in something i'm

00:53:19.000 going to tell her in a positive constructive way what what the truth of the matter is i don't i

00:53:27.160 don't because if what are you sparing their feelings for or from you know if i mean this

00:53:34.520 is a specific the specific situation might dictate different courses of action but i don't think that

00:53:41.480 lying is going to actually make it better um you know you're either depriving them of a

00:53:48.680 learning experience or you're setting them up for for more hurt feelings somewhere down the line

00:53:57.640 like you know if my kid's goldfish dies i'm not going to tell him that you know

00:54:04.840 down the toilet he swims to like you know a big happy ocean i'm gonna take the opportunity to

00:54:11.960 explain mortality and i think that's the way to go so no i don't think so

00:54:16.680 So, you know, is it OK?

00:54:23.120 I mean, it certainly is is understandable and I understand the impulse to it.

00:54:28.600 And I think as far as the the hierarchy of horribly evil things you can do, saying something

00:54:35.480 nice to spare somebody's feelings that's untrue is probably pretty low on that list.

00:54:42.200 But I agree with Cliff.

00:54:43.740 And I think that here's where the art comes in.

00:54:46.300 There is ways to tell people truth that are kind and that are uplifting.

00:54:56.460 You know, he mentioned the common, hey, do I look fat in this dress thing that I think that all of

00:55:04.060 us men have been in similar, if not the exact situation about that. I'll always answer that

00:55:10.460 honestly, whether anybody wants to hear it or not. Because in my experience, a woman would much

00:55:18.540 rather hear that from someone they trust so that they're not embarrassed later on. I know that I

00:55:26.740 would. If I look ridiculous in something, I really hope that Mandy tells me to fix it instead of me

00:55:33.800 going out in front of people thinking I look like a million bucks and getting laughed at. Because 0.87

00:55:37.720 moment i realized that everybody was laughing at me because i looked like a fool that would be much 0.78

00:55:42.760 more crushing than hey matt i think i'd go with you know a little bit you need some you need some

00:55:47.480 pants that are bigger hey i'd go with something different um honesty helps there and the specific

00:55:53.640 so i appreciate he followed this up with a specific scenario um he said what if they were

00:56:00.040 dying and a lie would bring them comfort and something i this i suppose can be argued but

00:56:10.760 something that i think is fundamental we have a certain instinct towards truth or not

00:56:19.320 and there's a value that i get when i know someone's telling me the truth

00:56:24.920 that i don't get when i feel like somebody's telling me something that's false

00:56:30.040 um again is it okay i certainly get the impulse but i would rather tell that dying person

00:56:39.800 something truthful but also give them truthful encouragement and you can always find something

00:56:50.320 positive to say that's true it sometimes it may be more challenging than others

00:56:55.700 but you can say you know well unfortunately no but and then tell them something that is truthful

00:57:04.360 and they they can hold on to and and have and i would say this i would much rather

00:57:12.080 go out with my friend telling me something honest than feeling like my friend lied to me

00:57:21.080 um on my deathbed i have some friends that are emts and something that they shared with me um

00:57:28.200 across the board at different times this is just something that i think is true um among people in

00:57:34.940 um you know medical or emergency services is like if you have somebody in the back of your ambulance

00:57:41.060 and they're like am i gonna make it you don't just say yes if they're not going to you say

00:57:46.680 something positive but you don't just yeah everything's gonna be fine don't mind you know

00:57:54.760 the catastrophic injury because they they already know the answer i think

00:58:01.880 secondly don't don't rob somebody in your scenario and again context is everything

00:58:06.440 and it can be a million different ways but telling somebody they're gonna make it instead of

00:58:13.560 you know no you're you're dying you're robbing them of the chance to make peace with things or to

00:58:23.640 to bear that themselves in a in a dignified way um they're not getting that option if they don't

00:58:31.960 know the truth if they don't know the truth they can't act upon it this is assuming they

00:58:36.360 have some time to act again it all depends on the circumstance but i still

00:58:43.000 think is that as a kindness to someone you care about, it is more kind to be honest than to

00:58:49.420 treat them dishonestly in an attempt to spare their feelings.

00:58:54.780 Yeah, I think they said they would say something along the lines of like, we're on our way to the

00:59:00.700 best care or something true, but that's not like, you know, a guarantee for something they really

00:59:07.240 can't guarantee well you know here's another thing that people may want to be cautious about

00:59:12.760 too when we talk about truth don't ask questions you don't want the answer to um i think that's

00:59:19.880 another one when you ask somebody for truth you can't be mad when they give you truth um i remember

00:59:29.240 well as an afterthought um i had my spleen removed in 2001 it was my first big major surgery

00:59:37.240 and uh they were about to put me under to take my spleen out and i asked like

00:59:43.220 you know what are the odds that i don't wake up from this and they're like about 16 boom and then

00:59:49.840 they put that yeah and i i didn't really want to hear that that's higher odds than that than i

00:59:56.620 than i wanted of not making it out of it and uh you know fortunately i was in the the 84 that do

01:00:03.680 make it but that was probably shouldn't would have been better if i didn't ask the question

01:00:10.560 uh we have over in the side chat that uh the genes do not make someone fat it's the fat that

01:00:15.920 makes them look fat and i think that that also tends to be a truth um but yeah so and and i

01:00:26.080 think that's a fun conversation tonight and i think it veers in some places that our conversations on

01:00:31.200 here don't always go uh another question what makes one not suitable for membership

01:00:40.000 um many things well yeah i was gonna say this is everything that i say here is not exhaustive

01:00:46.800 because there's you know there's there's countless things that at some time we may decide

01:00:56.800 isn't you know make somebody not suitable for membership uh the most obvious ones and

01:01:03.440 cliff please feel free to supplement these if i don't get all of them um if someone is

01:01:11.280 obviously not white that makes them not suitable for membership in the house true folk assembly

01:01:16.720 if someone is a homosexual uh that makes them not suitable for the house true folk assembly 0.98

01:01:26.160 if someone is not Alcitru and has no desire to become Alcitru, that makes them not acceptable 0.87

01:01:36.600 for the Alcitru Folk Assembly. You would think they wouldn't ask, but it happens.

01:01:40.400 It does. It does. And I'll say this in case it comes up. There are people that just really like

01:01:47.280 us, really like what we're doing and really want to support us. So they try to become members,

01:01:51.640 even though i've had christians try to do that but i've also had a lot of people that are are

01:01:58.280 solidly atheists and don't want to reevaluate it but they really like what they do and want

01:02:03.400 to join to support and if people want to financially contribute anybody there's nobody

01:02:08.760 that is not suitable for for throwing some ducats our way if that's what you want to do

01:02:14.040 we appreciate that and seriously if if you are a supporter but you don't align with us religiously

01:02:21.640 there are ways to support us and we really appreciate it. But fundamentally, we are a

01:02:27.400 church and we are a religion. And if you don't follow our faith, or if you're not earnestly

01:02:32.540 trying to, then you can't, we can't in good conscience accept you as members.

01:02:40.040 Other things that wouldn't let you be a member, a member. If you're under 18, 1.00

01:02:46.120 If you're not an adult, you can't be a member. If you are incarcerated, you can't apply for membership while you are incarcerated. If we feel that you are a danger to our families, you cannot be a member. If we feel you are a danger to us exist, existentially, you can't be a member.

01:03:13.420 If you are currently in a mixed-race relationship, a romantic relationship, you cannot be a member. 1.00

01:03:23.600 Those are the things off the top of my head, but there may well be more of those things that come up, 1.00

01:03:30.260 but I think those cover most of the bases.

01:03:33.200 Cliff, am I missing anything that you're aware of?

01:03:36.200 I think the only thing you didn't mention is if you are on that very short list of people

01:03:41.740 who have betrayed the AFA in the past.

01:03:44.960 So that's under the existential threat of us as a whole.

01:03:49.980 We have a, so in the circles that we've been in,

01:03:55.800 in doing this right, we have a lot of very passionate people.

01:04:04.160 And unfortunately, we have, you know,

01:04:07.800 so much of this is something that we care so much about.

01:04:11.740 We have a lot of times that people have betrayed the AFA, that people have left us, that we've broken with people, far too many people than I would have liked for us to or than, you know, I can even really count.

01:04:30.120 But we want all of our people to come home and our default setting is if you're one of our folk, we want you to come back to the AFA and through the AFA to come back to your gods.

01:04:39.680 There are very few people that are on a very short list that have actively, through dishonesty and through treacherous means, have tried to damage the AFA as a whole.

01:04:54.400 And those people, if they have that in them and they've broken that trust with us, there are a few people that we can't take the risk of trying to trust again.

01:05:04.820 And that list is very, very small.

01:05:06.980 and old too we've gotten pretty good at not having that problem yeah we haven't had a lot

01:05:15.240 of recent people on that list i'm happy to say um

01:05:20.540 all right hey from don hail odin i'll say you go through matt do you think your martial arts

01:05:30.420 training has helped you in dealing with certain situations i find it has for me

01:05:35.100 so

01:05:37.140 this isn't fair to the martial art I think that if I was in martial arts for a much

01:05:45.140 earlier point in my life that it would have in a lot of ways

01:05:48.120 no I don't think it has helped me in situations as of yet and the reason is because other martial

01:05:59.440 things have, um, have helped me in the ways that I like to think martial arts would have helped me

01:06:07.020 in situations. I know that's convoluted, but I just started, uh, learning, uh, jiu-jitsu,

01:06:15.160 uh, dancing road jiu-jitsu about five years ago. And, uh, it's amazing. I love it. I've learned a

01:06:23.180 of really great things with it i think very highly of it but most of the confrontation things and

01:06:32.460 physical altercation things and having confidence in my ability to deal with other people i learned

01:06:39.500 through the school of hard knocks uh bouncing for 10 years because i bounced at busy places with

01:06:47.020 very diverse clientele and a lot of different people in a lot of different circumstances

01:06:53.100 and it taught me a lot about myself, and I think that martial things certainly have helped me in

01:06:59.120 my life, but I didn't start with the martial arts until I was in my late 30s, so I can't really say

01:07:06.700 that that was what helped me in a lot of things. What about you, Cliff? Have you ever taken any

01:07:12.860 martial arts? I have not. I probably should, though. You should. I think it's great, and

01:07:21.480 honestly you know i'm even though i did it later in life i'm i'm really glad that that i started it

01:07:27.720 and and i'm not gonna lie there i go far less than i would like to because i'm getting older and uh

01:07:34.040 recover slower and feel like i'm getting beat up all the time as far as my joints go

01:07:38.520 but i'm really glad i'm going to it uh tony coming in late tell me honestly how are you

01:07:45.320 two fine gentlemen doing tonight cliff how are you doing i'm great um i'll brag a little bit me

01:07:52.440 and githya katie and matt knows about this but we we dug 55 post holes 30 inches deep with the

01:08:01.080 proper so bigger at the bottom than at the top and uh over the weekend i mixed uh two tons of

01:08:07.560 concrete to fill them and we put uh 55 aluminum fence posts up because we have uh we're putting

01:08:13.640 in a 500 foot chain link fence and i'm pretty proud of that we we did that on our own and that

01:08:19.720 probably saved us about 10 grand so it's a big deal because we got three big dogs two little kids

01:08:25.640 and uh a fence is going to be a big big addition to our our homestead here it's

01:08:35.480 good stuff so i'm very happy about it well tony i always give you the same answer but i think

01:08:41.160 that's because i i'm i'm pretty blessed i'm doing good um i'm doing really good i'm very excited

01:08:47.560 about the sigerheim progression uh that's something i've been super excited about lately

01:08:52.280 and we're making good progress so i'm excited about it i'm also very excited for i'm leaving

01:08:59.480 my house here at about 4 a.m in the morning to get on a plane and start my journey to feast of

01:09:05.880 of the iron here you are in oklahoma and i'm always excited to meet some folks that i haven't

01:09:10.680 met before and see my afa friends and family that i haven't seen you know in in a little bit and

01:09:18.040 getting back and seeing seeing those folks is something i'm always very excited to do so i'm

01:09:23.360 looking forward to that i'm a little bit i'm aware that i'm not going to get much sleep tonight so

01:09:29.360 i'm a little bit ho-hum about that but i'm i'm pretty happy guy i appreciate you asking and

01:09:34.760 checking in, though. Our next question is, what do you mean a danger existentially?

01:09:44.220 I will gladly answer that. But Cliff, what do you think as far as a reason that somebody can't

01:09:52.060 be a member that qualifies as an existential danger? I mean, you know, people who are

01:09:57.480 dangerously crazy and want to burn down churches and synagogues and are going to bring bad

01:10:04.380 stuff to the afa's doorstep i know um people that um you know are are trying to maliciously 0.90

01:10:15.240 operate inside the ossaroo folk assembly to destructive ends for our mission um you know

01:10:24.480 if somebody is trying to um you know if the only reason they're a member is to recruit our members 0.96

01:10:32.180 to go do some other thing you know um you know we we we don't want that stuff people whose presence

01:10:41.300 has the potential to actually damage or destroy the afa yeah um thinking off the top of my head

01:10:48.980 of two examples and these people are are on that short list um we had one guy uh early on try to

01:11:02.180 create a stratagem to take over leadership of the AFA and to oust its current leadership.

01:11:10.640 And they went through all of these games and really convoluted machinations and building

01:11:18.800 friendships with key people and trying to get certain people in positions to have this coup

01:11:27.140 and to overthrow the AFA's leadership and move it in a radically different direction.

01:11:32.180 um they handled it very ham-fistedly and we figured it out but that kind of devious behavior

01:11:41.140 isn't acceptable and uh that's one of the cases another one we we ended up and this is this is on

01:11:48.280 on two two fronts that it was existential um this gentleman had a lot of good potential but

01:11:56.500 was a constant problem as far as behavior goes and couldn't figure out what's appropriate and

01:12:02.960 what's not as far as just being deliberately provocative and in your face to every other

01:12:10.980 group of people and to authorities and to anything else. We tried really hard to work with him for

01:12:15.940 a while and help him realize his best self. But at some point, his behavior became so far out of

01:12:21.420 bounds that it reflected very poorly on the rest of us. And it was done intentionally to seek

01:12:26.200 attention. When confronted about it, he revealed that, you know, though he was a member of

01:12:33.620 leadership, he never really was wanted to be part of the AFA at all and was just using us to build

01:12:39.300 a group for himself. And as soon as he did, they were going to break off anyway. So it was no big

01:12:43.480 deal. Now, I think some of that is trying to make himself look good on the way out or whatever.

01:12:50.900 since then his group has fallen apart of the few people that he had and his life is

01:12:57.380 a tragic story since then but if you're going to say that you take oaths with us dishonestly

01:13:06.500 and you're going to admit to that then we can't trust you and if you don't put especially as a

01:13:13.060 leader in the AFA, if you don't put the needs of the AFA above your own attention seeking,

01:13:21.620 then that's dangerous for us to move forward. And we're trying so hard to build something here that

01:13:27.620 will be around for our children, for our grandchildren, and for our future, and an

01:13:33.060 institution for our folk and for our gods. And we can't risk that on reckless individuals that

01:13:41.780 that care more about themselves than about than about our AFA family.

01:13:56.780 So the next question, I'll let you take this one, Cliff Freemasons.

01:14:02.260 We have no prohibition against Freemasons joining the Ossetree Folk Assembly.

01:14:08.560 So I get it. I get the question. I think I know a lot of people in our camp are sometimes as a 0.98

01:14:26.800 hobby, sometimes as more than a hobby, look into a lot of conspiracy things. And, you know, again,

01:14:34.600 just because something is a conspiracy theory doesn't necessarily mean that it's not true

01:14:40.280 but i think that you know truth the vast majority of american freemasons in 2022

01:14:49.560 are guys that like to network with other dudes and drink and do charitable projects

01:14:56.440 i think that if we were having this discussion in the late 1700s or early 1800s at that point

01:15:03.480 we probably would not allow freemasons into the ouster folk assembly but i think it's a it's a

01:15:08.280 very different situation now than it was then and there's a lot of uh strange overlap and family

01:15:15.720 legacy people involved in freemasonry that really don't have any kind of clandestine intentions

01:15:24.200 um looking around does anybody else have questions for us this evening or anything

01:15:33.800 they would like us to discuss um it doesn't have to be about truth yeah it can be about

01:15:42.680 anything you want i mean literally it can be about pretty much anything you want

01:15:54.200 And I see, you know, there's some populating over on the side now, so we'll hang on because there are a couple of questions.

01:16:02.020 questions um I'm starting to see some of the questions and one another thing that I think

01:16:15.880 would prevent membership if we knew about it is overlap with groups that

01:16:24.640 are not also true one thing that we run into in some of the circles that we're into

01:16:30.040 is people that want to um worship loki or worship any of the forces of chaos because they exist in

01:16:43.600 the same cosmology as our gods i think some people falsely believe that they're relevant to

01:16:51.060 and i think the closest analogy though this is clearly not a all the same is like satanists

01:16:58.940 are to christianity like their their mythology correlates but they're on the other team

01:17:07.580 those are on two polar opposite teams and uh within within the cosmology of our ancestors

01:17:15.420 and our our arian faith folks that are on the side of chaos are on the other team by definition

01:17:22.860 as those of us who are true to the isir so i think that factors in we have a question

01:17:30.140 what about oto members they practice jewish magic having to do with demon summoning

01:17:36.300 uh i would think that would be a no for afa membership what is your familiarity with the oto

01:17:43.500 cliff i've heard of it but i haven't studied it deeply but um i mean if you're a member of any

01:17:52.300 other religious organization then that's going to be something we need to straighten out you know

01:18:00.140 i mean the question could be what if we catch you going to mass too um you know it's the same

01:18:05.660 problem so if someone is a member is actively participating in another religion that's not

01:18:12.300 also true then that would be disqualifying and we'll talk to the person about it find out what's

01:18:19.580 going on i mean we're not um you know in any of these situations i think that's important to

01:18:25.980 clarify too it's it's not like we just you know throw people out without talking to them we're

01:18:30.620 going to try to find out where their head is at maybe maybe they were confused you know um

01:18:39.100 and we're going to try to bring them to us true because our mission is for our folk to

01:18:43.820 be honoring our gods and ancestors so if it's a recoverable situation we're going to try to do

01:18:50.140 that every time but you can't you know i'm like i said i'm not super familiar with oto but you can't

01:18:56.380 be a catholic and also true you can't be a wiccan and also true um and so if you're actively

01:19:04.860 participating in something that's not australia religiously that's a problem that needs to be

01:19:10.780 addressed you know there's there's a strange overlap in some things and a lot of people

01:19:18.140 come to also true from a left-hand path

01:19:25.420 background or from a satanic background when i say satanic i don't mean an actual worship of

01:19:32.300 the christian devil per se but people of a more black magic thing there's there's that current

01:19:41.180 and i see that current much less than i used to in the past so there there may be some overlapping

01:19:47.420 things there that i guess the forgive forgive me but the devil is in the details um and i think

01:19:57.260 that that's that's a thing uh but we want people moving in the right direction and examining that

01:20:04.860 there's a lot of there there is some overlap in some of those ideologies and i think we see that

01:20:11.260 personified by uh dr stephen flowers a lot and again because i don't at this point there would

01:20:24.220 have to be a very serious conversation to judge whether or not edrid thorson could join the afa

01:20:31.260 at this point in his life um because some things are are very askew but but i see the overlap there

01:20:38.780 and that would be something we'd certainly need to talk about and try to figure out but again

01:20:43.020 context is everything and that's that's really important um isn't edrid is zoroastrian now

01:20:49.100 anyway so that in of itself would be a problem um yeah that's what that's what i'm wondering where

01:20:59.100 he's at with that at this point uh i haven't heard a lot about his uh zoroastrian endeavors as of

01:21:08.220 late so i don't know if that was a passing phase or just what but i'm i'm ignorant on where he's

01:21:13.340 out with that he should just come home to us true yeah yeah he should have never left that um

01:21:22.700 so will you get a blue check mark for the afa twitter account now i have no idea what that

01:21:30.460 means cliff do you know what a blue check mark on twitter indicates or how yeah a blue check mark

01:21:36.860 means you're verified and elon is going to be charging eight dollars for blue check marks

01:21:41.820 um i i don't think it's worth it at this point i guess we'll see how it plays out but i don't know

01:21:47.260 that we'll get a greater audience i think that the blue check mark is a lot more useful for

01:21:51.900 politicians and reporters and stuff like that so that when they send instant messages to people

01:21:56.940 you know that this is you know actually brett hume as opposed to someone pretending to be him

01:22:03.100 and so then you may actually converse with him but i don't i don't know that it would be helpful

01:22:10.140 to the afa right now but eight dollars isn't a lot if there's any utility that does if it's a

01:22:16.300 one-time fee i mean i think it's per month but still i i don't see what the utility of it would

01:22:23.420 be right now but i'm not opposed to it if there's a demonstratable reason to get it

01:22:30.380 it yeah i uh i don't see the the need in it but i certainly don't say that we won't do that if it

01:22:39.100 sounds reasonable or advantageous to for us to do at some point i think it'd be smart to see

01:22:44.380 what the twitterverse shapes up to be over the next few months that's very much dynamic right

01:22:50.260 now well it is and i certainly you know am much more much happier with uh the new the new twitter

01:22:58.740 regime than the previous ones so we'll see what the future holds um here's a question that again

01:23:06.740 some of the the devil's in the details on it um heathen man asks what if a person has been in a

01:23:13.460 mixed race relationship in the past that produced a child but are no longer in that relationship

01:23:20.020 and have realized the inappropriateness of such a relationship eligible um i think that 0.96

01:23:28.740 This is the thing. So if that kind of, if that, if a person with those circumstances applied, we would have a very serious discussion behind the scenes.

01:23:42.340 If that child were still involved in that person's life, then no, probably they would probably not be eligible for membership.

01:23:53.440 um but if the child wasn't involved in the person's life would they be and there's again

01:24:00.920 there's gray areas the child's still living um is the child completely estranged from them

01:24:08.300 uh does the child live at home all of these things come into question it would certainly be a

01:24:14.720 very serious issue to contemplate and it would be very problematic

01:24:18.120 um what are your thoughts on that scenario cliff well there's a couple of different

01:24:23.640 sub scenarios i think um you know if we're if we're talking about somebody who when they were

01:24:30.140 serving overseas sired some bastards pardon the language but that's what it would be and they've

01:24:35.980 never had any further communication with them well that's obviously less than our ideal i don't think 0.91

01:24:43.080 that that you know indiscretion um should be sufficient to disqualify someone from being able

01:24:52.280 to participate in their native religion i mean the vikings did this sort of thing too but they

01:24:58.280 didn't bring them home to their villages now if on the other hand um we have someone who was you

01:25:04.600 know in a marriage or a committed relationship and you know has a 10 year old child that they're

01:25:09.800 raising um they need to own that they need to be a good parent to that child and i don't

01:25:15.640 think it would be appropriate for us to tell them that their child cannot

01:25:24.120 come to their religious services but we're not going to have that child at our religious

01:25:29.160 services and i also wouldn't want someone as a member who would be willing to just

01:25:32.680 ditch their family to come join the afa so yeah it's so i want to add some context to

01:25:41.480 the question and again that's one of those things that there's a lot of details to be worked out

01:25:46.520 with it the the thinking is and this is counterintuitive to how modern people tend to view

01:25:57.240 religion um the afa is a community and we practice our faith as a community community is essential to

01:26:07.400 proper practicing of asa true where that's possible um you know you could still be asked

01:26:13.560 true if you lived in a you know a cave and you were stranded there for the rest of your life

01:26:17.640 that's a thing but community is what the afa is about and it's not so much a question of what's

01:26:28.200 good for the individual that's certainly important but it's fundamentally important is what's healthy

01:26:33.720 for the community when we're all together and we're us there is a value to that that's inherent

01:26:42.440 and when you introduce something other then we're no longer us anymore we don't have the

01:26:48.760 value of being homogenous and our thoughts turn to the thing that separates us instead of the

01:26:56.120 thing that brings us together and that's counterproductive to what we're trying to 1.00

01:27:00.600 do at a religious service another thing is if you were to bring around a mixed race child that you 0.97

01:27:09.720 agree was produced by um by a mistake we wouldn't want our children to see that and think that 1.00

01:27:19.160 that's okay or that that's normal or to be desensitized to that and further by making

01:27:26.200 similar mistakes because they saw that example um so considering what impact it has on the group is

01:27:35.160 a huge defining factor in whether we want to welcome someone into our group

01:27:42.440 michael asks will sigerheim be in eastern tennessee it will be in tennessee um exactly where

01:27:49.960 lines are drawn on what counts as what part of the state i'm not certain of and until we're all

01:27:57.320 the way dialed in we want to you know we don't want to narrow it down that much until we we

01:28:04.280 purchase it and have it but uh in the state of tennessee certainly i want to just uh it's not a

01:28:12.040 question so it might not come up in the questions but uh but ryan says just look out for freemason

01:28:17.640 subversion towards universalism ryan i promise we are not going to be uh subverted towards

01:28:24.040 universalism we're solidly folkish and always will be well so that's that's another thing that

01:28:30.200 would make you not eligible for the house true folk assembly if you are a universalist we do

01:28:34.360 not want you in the house true folk assembly because you're not also true well and that's

01:28:39.480 and and that's the fundamental there's people with a lot of different worldviews involved in masonry

01:28:45.720 that don't necessarily buy into those kind of arch values they're into it as some kind of a club

01:28:53.960 and that's between them and in that organization but if you don't share our worldview then you

01:29:01.880 can't be part of the afa and so a lot of the masons that you are thinking about the the the

01:29:07.640 super evil masons that brought down you know all the good things in european society those people

01:29:13.480 wouldn't be welcome in the afa either um so nick asks what are you looking forward to the most

01:29:23.240 at feast of the iron here yard in oklahoma um

01:29:32.440 there's a lot of things i think it's going to be a really special event like i said i'm going to

01:29:36.120 meet a lot of people that i haven't met before i'm going to spend time with people that i genuinely

01:29:41.800 enjoy their company tom this is what right now i'm looking most forward to because i think it'll be

01:29:48.200 fun i like road trips i'm flying into dallas and uh one of our apprentice folk builders

01:29:54.920 justin day is going to drive myself and whit and brandy callahan up to the event in oklahoma so

01:30:02.040 i am looking forward to the car ride with them i haven't met him yet so i'm looking forward to

01:30:07.720 getting to know him a little bit and hanging out with brandy and honestly stopping and eating road

01:30:13.480 snacks and drinking absurd amounts of energy drinks and uh eating candy that's probably what

01:30:19.400 i'm excited about doing tomorrow i will i will celebrate the virtue of truth by just putting that

01:30:24.280 out there um i those fun fact i try really hard to count my macros and stay on a reasonable macro

01:30:35.640 diet plan um while i'm here at home but i i use afa adventures as a as an excuse to eat off the

01:30:43.720 reservation and indulge my cravings on some stuff so i do look forward to that that's always a fun

01:30:48.360 part um vril veneer are there valid reasons for the gods to be untruthful to us comfort comforting

01:31:02.360 lie slash keeping us safe from harm? Or would they rather be bluntly truthful and have us face

01:31:09.820 the problem head on? It's a really interesting question. Cliff, what are your thoughts on it?

01:31:18.380 Well, I don't know the minds of our gods. So I'm going to have to just, I guess, say yes. But

01:31:30.140 But as far as what they would prefer or motives, I think that that would take a level of hubris

01:31:45.480 for me to assume that I could speak for them in that way.

01:31:51.860 So I'm very proud of you, Cliff, that you answered that way.

01:31:55.480 I want everyone in AFA leadership to answer that way because piety dictates the gods can make rules for us.

01:32:06.240 We don't make rules for the gods.

01:32:11.240 I'm not sitting where they sit.

01:32:13.460 I don't know what they know.

01:32:14.960 and I don't have the authority or the appropriateness to dictate the bounds of what our gods can and

01:32:26.880 can't do or should and shouldn't do. I think it would be impious to impose that upon them.

01:32:33.920 Now, what I will say is in my understanding, our gods certainly want to encourage truth and

01:32:41.420 facing truth courageously. That seems to be something that is fundamental.

01:32:50.400 And they want us to rise to circumstances with a certain amount of courage and stoicism,

01:32:57.220 even when we know that an outcome isn't what we want. So I think that the gods certainly

01:33:02.660 encourage truth amongst us and want us to be able to respond. If we are presented with an easy hand

01:33:12.900 and comforting lies, it takes away our opportunity to act with virtue, to act with

01:33:20.900 any of several of our noble virtues, with perseverance and pushing through adversity,

01:33:26.100 with courage by being afraid of things and still acting, the more the gods are dishonest to us,

01:33:35.360 the more we're unable to live up to those standards that they want us to have. So I think

01:33:41.960 that generally speaking, no, the gods don't want to function out of dishonesty to us. But again,

01:33:49.820 I would not presume to tell the gods what to do or not to do. And I think if we look at our lore,

01:33:56.100 um the gods are certainly capable of deceit they have employed it against

01:34:02.180 jotens on numerous occasions to their own benefit um

01:34:09.540 i think that um you know what what we think they want for us and what what we think um

01:34:17.540 their agenda is are not always in alignment with what's what's what's with what's real

01:34:25.420 when we talk about you know praying and asking for things from the gods this comes up sometimes

01:34:33.720 in that you know if you are I said in our in the previous show that I was on I think

01:34:42.180 um that when i'm asking for something for myself that i go to my ancestors because i think that

01:34:47.700 they have a much more direct concern about my individual well-being and that of my immediate

01:34:56.500 family than you know that say odin or thor would because odin's busy worrying about the universe

01:35:05.620 and all of our folk with a capital f and all of the aesir and ragnarok and all of these other you know

01:35:15.540 he's got a pretty busy plate and uh you know whether or not i get a raise or you know

01:35:25.300 whether or not the car makes it home or some of these smaller things that that people are

01:35:30.900 you know inclined to you know petition our gods for um i i don't think that it even come

01:35:40.340 the details like that necessarily come into their much grander plans

01:35:49.380 and if it does it not in a way that i would understand you know if somehow my

01:35:54.020 heart breaking down delays ragnarok then i guess that's what's going to happen but i probably will

01:35:58.900 never know okay so i'm seeing a conversation going on in the side and i want to chime in on it

01:36:07.460 and forgive me if this has already been addressed um we have somebody asking how they could how a

01:36:13.300 non-member could get vouched for by a member so they could attend an event the best thing for you

01:36:18.660 to do is to reach out to the folk builder nearest you and this is a good time to plug our hoff

01:36:24.420 district websites each of these websites has a contact page with folk builders and it says

01:36:32.980 in their description what state they're in so depending on where you live these are the places

01:36:40.260 that you would go to the addresses are up right now those of you listening on a podcast later

01:36:47.700 it's odenshoff.org thorshoff.com baldershoff.org and njordshoff.org um all of those are spelled

01:36:59.940 in the in the english spelling with the english characters because um the addresses didn't support

01:37:08.020 the icelandic characters anyways yeah you want to reach out to to a folk builder there and talk to

01:37:13.700 them and they can try to get that squared away and uh it doesn't have to be some huge you know

01:37:18.500 concern but we do want to check in with you and and have that conversation all of those people

01:37:23.540 would love to talk to you it's it's literally what they signed up to do so please do not hesitate and

01:37:28.500 reach out to them if you have questions on you know which one of those districts you happen to

01:37:33.060 find yourself in the answers are on the home page to those places but you ask them in the side we'll

01:37:38.660 gladly tell you to um so this question from don ricardo so thoughts on the nine noble virtues

01:37:50.740 cliff do you have thoughts on the nine noble virtues they're great um i mean we've talked

01:37:58.180 about truth an awful lot so i think that one's covered um i mean my thoughts on the nine noble

01:38:05.300 virtuals virtues overall is you know they are a distillation of right behavior from

01:38:17.220 the eddas and the sagas you know sometimes you'll hear people criticize well those those

01:38:22.260 aren't in the lord it's like well well yes they are all of the lore is about these virtues um

01:38:29.140 um and i think that you know they're they're not commandments um but they are ideals that we should

01:38:38.740 strive to so yeah i have thoughts on them certainly um they're great and i wouldn't be

01:38:54.460 in this series of discussions if I didn't think they were. We absolutely agree on those in the

01:38:59.700 Austro-Folk Assembly with the added 10th virtue of victory. Nine Noble Virtues, I just want to

01:39:09.740 give a hail to Stubba and Hoskold of the Odenic Rite. John Ewell and John Gibbs Bailey, they

01:39:20.020 are the the founding fathers of the nine noble virtues as we have them today

01:39:26.280 um it's wrong-headed to criticize them because that list wasn't carved into a rune stone a

01:39:34.680 thousand years ago uh foundational practitioners of ausitru in in modern times came up with that

01:39:43.480 list to define core principles for us to live by and to send that into the future. And it's, you

01:39:52.460 know, it's stood the test of time. It's not thousands of years old, but in a thousand years

01:39:58.280 it will be. As it is now, it's 50 years old or more. But yeah, that was a, it was a great

01:40:08.360 step forward by those gentlemen, and we honor them for that, and we are very much believers

01:40:17.020 in those virtues within the Astru Folk Assembly. We have a donation from Lawrence Forbes,

01:40:24.160 10 Canadian dollars. Thank you. We always appreciate it. He's a frequent contributor

01:40:28.780 to the program. Good evening, gents. It's so refreshing to hear grounded men like yourselves

01:40:35.900 speaking up unashamedly for our gods and for our folk. A huge thank you. Blessed be. Well,

01:40:43.040 you are very welcome. We appreciate you saying so. And like I say, we really appreciate your

01:40:48.980 continued support. Yeah, thanks. We've got a question from Finn Wraith. What gods are part

01:40:59.140 the forces of chaos cliff you want to start on that sure um i wouldn't call them gods they're they're

01:41:13.380 they're spiritual entities but um i mean the the primary ones would be loki fenrir normingander um

01:41:25.300 hella to a point that's a more complicated topic but um as a daughter of loki i think she would be

01:41:36.940 included in that um the the thurser the you know the the fire giants and the and the ice giants

01:41:46.060 mostly there's some caveats there too um but that's what we're talking about i'm assuming

01:41:53.740 your question is what what entities are what we're referring to earlier when when ashir gothi matt

01:42:00.860 was talking about um you know people who would worship the forces of chaos basically any entity

01:42:10.380 that is in opposition to the order that the aesir established

01:42:17.820 um yeah so uh everything cliff said um but the the principle the context is this

01:42:36.620 some people

01:42:37.260 when people are new to our faith oftentimes they assume that anyone who

01:42:51.660 identifies with the cosmology as presented in ancient european lore is necessarily

01:43:00.860 practicing also true and also some people and a lot of people because it's become the default

01:43:08.300 answer to to many folks repeat this without thinking about it that also true means belief

01:43:14.300 in the a seer and it doesn't it means loyalty to it means troth with the a seer we're talking about

01:43:22.940 truth today true is part of also true it is part of the the combined word and it means being true

01:43:31.180 to or loyal to the a seer um have them all tells us that you know if to be loyal to someone is to

01:43:40.220 stand with them against their foes so the acr forces of order and the the entities that that

01:43:48.860 are opposed to them we stand with the aesir in in opposing and combating um and that certainly

01:43:58.300 includes loki that's probably the big one people are familiar with but also any of those forces

01:44:04.140 that line up on the other team at ragnarok obviously those are our forces that are

01:44:10.220 in opposition to us and so those would be the entities we're talking about

01:44:16.300 um and i think that answers the question i'm also looking over on the side and we're having

01:44:23.100 the the ongoing thing about folks who want to maybe come to the event and i invited folks

01:44:28.300 still seriously there is time do reach out to your folk builder and see about perhaps

01:44:32.540 attending the feast of the iron her yard event uh people that you want to talk to um f gordon

01:44:38.940 at runestone.org uh s mccurdy at runestone.org that's s m c c u r d y or um c evans at runestone.org

01:44:55.580 those are our three folk builders who are in oklahoma and they would be really happy to help

01:45:01.500 as nick mentioned on the side they may well be busy prepping for the event but they should be

01:45:06.380 able to still respond to their emails and and have that conversation um and if you're able to that

01:45:11.100 would be great to great to meet you and get to see you there uh ray says what about scenarios

01:45:19.180 or no i'm sorry what i apologize i can't read i promise what about seniors who are on a fixed

01:45:25.980 income that still want to be part of the afa but can't afford to be a member due to the cost of gas

01:45:32.460 and membership fees cliff go ahead and take this one well that's what our half taller program is

01:45:38.940 for um we have a a met of the way we prefer in fact that the people contribute to the austria

01:45:49.340 folk assembly is uh through half taller which means half tax half toll um and it's essentially

01:45:57.660 a tithe um we only ask one percent um or more but one percent is the minimum um of somebody's income

01:46:06.860 and somebody on a fixed income is um under all but the most extreme circumstances able to do that

01:46:15.100 You know, anybody can afford 1% in real terms.

01:46:26.420 But that would be the solution for that.

01:46:30.800 We have also had that program leveraged for our international members.

01:46:37.480 we have members in South Africa who would make even the most limited income in America look

01:46:46.520 luxurious. And the Hothteller program works great for them as well, because 1% of, what do they have 0.69

01:46:55.920 their kroner? But 1% of whatever it is, if you make a dollar per year, you can give us a penny.

01:47:04.060 but nobody actually makes a dollar per year we want people to be honest about um their their

01:47:10.820 actual ability to you know contribute so kroner is denmark or perhaps some other scandinavian

01:47:18.040 countries the currency in south africa is the rand um and i'm kind of curious what the root of that

01:47:24.760 is um so our value tonight is truth so i'm just going to be true on this this excludes international

01:47:33.100 members because I don't pretend to know the exchange rate in a lot of these different places

01:47:38.300 in America. There's no one that cannot afford the $10 benefactor monthly fee. There's no one

01:47:47.940 that can't afford $10. It's a pack of cigarettes. It's a value meal at McDonald's. It's that in the

01:47:58.020 course of an entire month, literal homeless people that are on the corner asking for change

01:48:04.960 can spend $10 a month. Now the question comes, is the AFA worth $10 a month to you? And

01:48:12.840 unfortunately, many people don't feel that it's worth that. And though that makes me sad, that's

01:48:19.480 truth. But Cliff's answer is the best answer, and it is something that has made a huge difference

01:48:28.600 for us. And fundamentally, it meets our values in a really good way because we rise and we fall

01:48:35.480 together. We succeed together or we struggle together. The Hof toller is a minimum of one

01:48:42.240 percent of a person or a household's income. When you're doing well, if that income is massive,

01:48:50.420 then we all benefit and get a big donation out of that. If the income is very small,

01:48:56.980 then we get a very small donation out of it. But what it does mean is that someone is committed

01:49:02.580 to spending at least one percent of that income on the AFA and on what we're doing together.

01:49:10.280 And that means a lot. So, yeah, like on whatever, certainly internationally, but the scenarios you mentioned, the fixed income seniors.

01:49:21.340 Yeah, we there's no part of the AFA that wants to, you know, damage old people by taking their last penny on something.

01:49:31.120 But I think 1% is a very reasonable situation. And if there was some strange outlying reason

01:49:39.100 that that's not the case, then those people should reach out to us individually and we can

01:49:43.240 figure something out. But when people suggest that they can't afford $10 a month, it's hard

01:49:51.020 for me to truly believe that with just the cost of pretty much anything these days. $10 a month

01:49:57.660 is not a lot to donate to your church and to your gods um but it's an issue of is it worth it to you

01:50:05.500 or not and i hope that it is we have plenty plenty of seniors on fixed incomes are given their 10

01:50:11.900 to their baptist and christian churches so it's not an unreasonable thing for us to ask no not at all

01:50:19.500 um finn wraith is it okay to be member a member of a political party absolutely it is

01:50:27.660 there may be some misunderstanding or confusion out there. The AFA doesn't suggest that our

01:50:37.960 members need to not participate in politics or in the world and its governance. Be active. Let your

01:50:47.820 faith determine your politics as opposed to the other way around. But yeah, we would encourage

01:50:54.580 people to be politically active in legal and appropriate ways um in in any way that they

01:51:01.300 feel our faith informs them to to act politically uh and and i'm glad you asked the question i know

01:51:08.580 that there's i don't know there's all kind of different ideas about politics um some people

01:51:15.940 depending on their back background think that politics equals street brawling and it doesn't

01:51:23.140 that's not what politics you know always is politics is very often um working at polling

01:51:31.220 places and helping with candidates that you support and is very much in line with with our

01:51:38.100 values as americans with uh you know our our values in the west so you know if you if you

01:51:46.180 feel motivated by by your sincere also true values to participate politically in a political party

01:51:52.900 that you think supports those things and is good for our folk then by all means participate in that

01:52:01.380 um i've danny says i've noticed limited apologetics type content to defend and contend for the truth

01:52:11.140 of the also true faith from a scientific or philosophical perspective as opposed to purely

01:52:17.860 spiritual one is that something that you see the afa ever getting involved with are those types of

01:52:23.940 debates counterproductive what are your thoughts cliff re-reading the question just for a moment

01:52:33.780 no worries so i i mean i don't know that there's a harm in

01:52:49.300 you know taking a going through a scientific exercise or a philosophical exercise um

01:52:56.180 um and and applying it to our faith also true but um i mean by by definition because also true

01:53:05.600 is a faith that doesn't you know require scientific or or philosophical proof

01:53:11.960 um i don't know the afa itself would get involved in those kind of things although the um the show

01:53:21.320 you were on recently matt was kind of like that where um you uh had the conversation with the

01:53:28.200 the the polite atheist gentleman who challenged you on um on truth actually

01:53:39.320 so

01:53:43.720 yes and yes um

01:53:45.880 I think that the AFA is always open to having conversations and because we believe very strongly

01:53:56.320 in our faith, having that discussion and trying to, I think that the term defend and contend

01:54:09.840 goes to something here. I think that having a dialogue and expressing truth to people and

01:54:17.540 telling them about our faith and our gods is a very valuable thing. I think discussing their

01:54:23.500 disagreements with that or their reservations they might have or questions they might have,

01:54:29.160 I think is a valid thing. I think that debates are also counterproductive because

01:54:36.120 it depends on what the point is. If the point is to impress a judge that through your argumentation,

01:54:46.080 one of those things becomes true or not, I think it's a little bit wrongheaded. Truth exists,

01:54:52.100 whether you score points in a debate environment or whether you don't.

01:55:00.160 That was kind of important to me on the broadcast that Cliff talked about.

01:55:06.120 Tom Jump, and I'm trying to remember the name of his podcast, but are his very, very similar to

01:55:14.040 this, but he had actual debates on there with different theologians. And it was about the

01:55:21.240 argument less than about coming to truth and about winning over your opponent rather than the truth

01:55:27.900 of it. And debate is valuable and really cool. I was on my high school, Lincoln Douglas, I was on

01:55:35.380 high school debate team and i competed in lincoln douglas debate i went to nationals one year

01:55:40.340 and i think debate is great but the the truth of that is when you debate in high school or at a

01:55:46.900 college level you have to take both sides of an issue and randomly they get drawn and you have

01:55:53.620 to take the side and convincingly debate on it it's about winning over your opponent much more

01:55:58.500 than it's about the discovery of truth oftentimes um so i think arguing arguing with people that

01:56:07.700 don't really want to be convinced in the hope that you can score points is fruitless unless

01:56:15.620 representing also true to the audience may benefit somebody who's listening so i think

01:56:20.900 all of the details in that matter but i wouldn't want to spend a lot of time trying to defend or

01:56:27.780 justify our faith we don't have to defend or justify our faith we need to practice our faith

01:56:34.740 and be proud of it and the the fruit of that will will bear more results than argumentation i think

01:56:47.860 filthy heathen sorry if this has been asked came in late to the stream is truth absolute

01:56:54.660 or can truth evolve what do you think cliff truth is absolute our understanding

01:57:02.100 of truth evolves or lack of understanding which is probably more accurate

01:57:10.020 yeah absolutely i think that our ways of describing truth hopefully trend closer and

01:57:17.220 closer to perfection um i think there's ways to understand truth generally and as we evolve in

01:57:25.620 our understanding to be able to narrow down the specific depth and breadth of those truths

01:57:32.100 in different ways but truth is absolute and it's objective truth exists

01:57:38.180 whether we can articulate it or understand it correctly or not something is either true or it's

01:57:43.220 not um faceless one got a custom license plate that reads also true thoughts cliff what are

01:57:54.660 your thoughts on that that's cool um i have no great profound thoughts on that um other than

01:58:05.060 we have a minnesota license plate at odenshoff that also has also true on it one of our former

01:58:12.660 members had that license plate. Jackson asks, what is the AFA's position on recreational marijuana

01:58:24.480 use? The AFA has no position on recreational marijuana use. The AFA's position generally is

01:58:33.660 conformed to the laws of where you're at and certainly conform to those laws when you're at

01:58:40.020 afa event where you're at if you're living in a place where that's legal then we have no objection

01:58:46.980 to that we have no moral objection to the use of marijuana as the afa um as far as we're concerned

01:58:53.060 that's a it's a person's personal choice and uh yeah what are your thoughts do you have any

01:58:59.940 thoughts on the marijuana issue cliff sure um i mean everything that you said um i mean this is

01:59:08.180 true for pretty much anything but don't don't do things that are going to cause harm to to yourself

01:59:16.100 or to your loved ones so if um you know if it's not legal where you are or you know if you have

01:59:23.460 to interact with particularly shady people to do that then it's probably unwise to do it um

01:59:30.020 Um, you know, but like, you know, like having a beer or having a whiskey or, um, any other

01:59:37.640 number of, you know, things that grownups can decide to do.

01:59:40.780 It's not, um, you know, objectionable from a moral standpoint.

01:59:46.280 Um, uh, you know, whether I apply this to when we're talking about our holy symbols

01:59:52.340 a lot, but I suppose it can be true for food or, um, alcohol or, um, you know, tobacco

01:59:58.160 or marijuana you can you can judge by whether you're using something wisely or not by the

02:00:02.560 results that you see in the real world so you know um if you find yourself highly unmotivated then

02:00:11.600 maybe you should you know put put the joint down and and go for a run or read a book or something

02:00:17.840 like that but uh in and of itself it's it's a plan and you know i'll throw this

02:00:28.080 this out there, there's other uses for marijuana besides, you know, getting high. I've seen a lot

02:00:35.740 of very, very beneficial effects on people with chronic pain issues and people with some various

02:00:41.320 mental traumas. There's a lot of different reasons people might use marijuana. I'll share that when

02:00:50.360 I was a young man, I used marijuana pretty regularly. And I wish that I hadn't because

02:00:56.780 i wasted a lot of time and money um not that i never i don't wish that i never did it but i wish

02:01:02.740 that i hadn't you know gotten into like pop culture the way that i did um it it made me take

02:01:11.940 a longer time to grow into the man that i could be because it distracted me from other things i

02:01:18.500 could have been doing you know i i have a pretty high tolerance for most things and you know when

02:01:25.380 was younger people there's a big pot culture thing in alaska and and everybody would try to or i say

02:01:31.060 everybody quite a few people would try to get me to try try this pot or no you just didn't have

02:01:35.700 the right stuff and i could never get it to do anything to me except for it made me really hungry

02:01:40.580 one time i say that but recently a few years back somebody had a marijuana vape pen that i that i

02:01:51.140 try to hit off of and man one one inhale of that it it didn't affect my brain but it affected my

02:02:04.260 body to where i couldn't move i was i was shocked at uh at how potent that had gotten

02:02:11.140 just as a random side note i suppose science science so lawrence forbes is back with another

02:02:19.540 10 canadian dollars thank you so much we always appreciate it uh i've been chatting up a gal at

02:02:24.980 a restaurant lately and we got around to discussing beliefs she said she was pagan to which i replied

02:02:31.460 so am i she added i don't like the racist pagan groups though at some point i'll share

02:02:37.860 uh i'll share the afa but not waste too much time if she turns out to be too anti-white

02:02:43.460 All right. Well, I'm glad that she's talking to you. I hope that works out well for you. It seems to anybody who front loads with the anti-racist stuff, I think that's a pretty good indication that that might not work out the way that you would like, but I do wish you the best with it.

02:03:13.460 Finn Wraith asks are people who follow hell not allowed in the AFA she is a daughter of Loki but

02:03:20.840 I do not think she ever seems to really take a side at Ragnarok at least from what I remember

02:03:27.020 I could be wrong so this is an issue that even internally in the AFA gets talked a lot about

02:03:35.600 um no you're being a follower of hell would not would not make you disallowed from from joining

02:03:41.600 afa but we would be curious as to your your thoughts on that um just as a random aside on that

02:03:53.440 slepner odin's horse is also a child of loki and we're not opposed to slepner

02:04:00.640 in fact it's on the banner behind me um but that's certainly a gray area within our faith

02:04:08.640 One thing that I will say about Hela is the courtesy that she showed Balder while Balder was in her realm.

02:04:18.900 That was a kind of an interesting note to me that that she showed respect and treated him, you know, as as a prince of the gods while he was there.

02:04:30.940 And I, I think that speaks to a certain amount of hospitality, but again, that's a, that's

02:04:37.340 a gray area that I know has some discomfort, but no, that alone would not preclude you

02:04:42.920 from being a member of the Astro Folk Center. 0.93

02:04:45.620 I think, um, it, most of us are going to rest with Hela in hell when we pass away. 0.95

02:04:54.300 That's, that's the, you know, and, and our ancestors will be there.

02:04:58.580 that's where you know i think most of us will go valhalla is for very few other other halls are

02:05:06.020 for very few um i mean hella is the embodiment of death right so she is something that should be

02:05:17.300 respected um but it's not something that you want to to worship i mean if if it really would depend

02:05:28.100 on what someone means by following hell to me you know if our if it's some like some kind of

02:05:35.220 death cult thing that they're doing then i would take issue with that if it is you know a matter

02:05:41.940 of paying proper respects that's another thing altogether yeah absolutely and and again with so

02:05:51.140 many things the details really really do matter on that um githya anna asks could you explain

02:06:00.260 why it's important to meet or have non-members vouched for before they attend events so quite

02:06:07.700 frankly um there's a couple of things the the obvious thing that comes to mind is our events

02:06:15.620 we bring our families to and we don't want anyone that's dangerous there it's a high trust environment

02:06:24.660 we certainly don't want anything anyone to do anything criminal or dangerous there

02:06:29.460 very specifically we don't want child molesters there we don't want people that were uncomfortable

02:06:34.020 around our kids there we're not going to know everything perfectly and especially you know

02:06:38.660 when we're just getting to know somebody a little bit but we want to do the due diligence

02:06:43.140 in at least you know asking some questions and getting to know a few things first but something

02:06:48.420 i don't think we mention often enough we don't want some freak show showing up we don't want

02:06:54.100 somebody who is obviously not in the right spot that's going to make everyone uncomfortable and

02:06:59.780 have you know and be uncomfortable because they're not in the right place so we want to know a little

02:07:04.900 bit about who they are what they're you know what their worldview is how they how they come to things

02:07:10.340 one of the best things about our events is people don't have to is we can experience truth

02:07:18.580 people don't have to hide who they are or how they think what they say at for fear of triggering

02:07:25.860 somebody who's not does not share our worldview um so yeah we don't we don't want some freak show to

02:07:33.620 show up that shouldn't be there or just somebody who's you know under a misconception about what

02:07:38.900 we're about so it's important to have those initial conversations and do a little bit of

02:07:42.980 due diligence of making sure that the person there is not a problem and the vouching form matters as

02:07:48.500 well if somebody vouches for them they're responsible for that person's behavior and we

02:07:52.980 have somebody to uh to call on to help manage that if anything were to become a problem

02:08:00.660 but uh those are some of my thoughts on it cliff do you have anything to add on on why we would

02:08:05.380 want somebody to be a non-member to be vouched for or met in person first yeah i mean so that

02:08:12.420 we can set proper expectations for them that that they have an idea of what the afa is and

02:08:19.780 that they're approaching it you know either with a sincere curiosity about what we do

02:08:26.260 or you know as a respectful observer you know for example if uh if somebody wanted to bring

02:08:33.460 their devoutly christian mom who wants to see what this australian thing that their son has

02:08:38.740 gotten into is we are okay with that provided that she understands that we're you know going

02:08:46.180 to be breaking some of her dear commandments and that she's respectful as an observer and

02:08:51.700 not participating in rituals but that yeah of course you can come see what what your son's

02:08:56.260 doing you know we're we're not a cult so we're not going to hide what we're doing from you

02:09:00.580 um and and for someone who you know maybe isn't sure if they're also sure or not maybe they really

02:09:08.480 like the i mean i was like this when i when i first got involved i liked the idea of being

02:09:13.360 also true i believed in believing in the gods but i hadn't quite gotten to

02:09:20.400 it being an article of faith for me yet and you know how else are you supposed to

02:09:28.580 how else are you supposed to give someone the opportunity to have that experience if

02:09:33.320 if they can't come but we want to make sure they're serious and and respectful

02:09:37.080 yeah there's there's any number of reasons that we would want to steer somebody away from

02:09:46.240 attending events or that you know maybe we'd be very excited about having them at an event and

02:09:52.420 having them get to experience that and want to become a member cliff's uh point about family

02:09:58.040 members is is always something really special whenever somebody is able to bring um a member

02:10:04.600 of their family especially like a parent or uh you know an aunt or an uncle or something in that's

02:10:11.320 that's really a special thing and and i i don't know that's just something really neat to see so i

02:10:17.320 i hope more of those things happen yeah don't don't let it scare you off but do you do need

02:10:22.200 to reach out to a folk builder and feel it out and uh hopefully it'll work out and we can see

02:10:27.160 you at something and uh or you find out it's not where you want to be and and you're not ready yet

02:10:33.400 i appreciate when families check us out too because um they're watching out for their own

02:10:38.520 you know they before they meet us they don't have any reason to trust that we have their son or

02:10:44.600 daughter's best interest at heart so coming and checking us out in person i take as a compliment

02:10:50.920 honestly well i do too because i think it it means that they're willing to take us seriously

02:10:57.960 if we were completely insignificant and it was some silly hobby it wouldn't be such a big deal

02:11:03.240 them realizing that it has gravity towards their their family member that is a testament

02:11:10.760 to that we're doing something serious and that that means a lot to me as well

02:11:13.800 um owl of omens says hi all hail the afa what is your favorite virtue of the nine noble virtues

02:11:23.480 cliff what is your favorite of the nine noble virtues oh it's got to be truth because my peers

02:11:29.560 selected me to be here tonight apparently i'm good at it i don't know for better or worse

02:11:35.320 both probably cliff is dropping truth bombs like when he talked about if you go overseas 0.95

02:11:44.160 and you create some bastards and you leave them there um yeah cliff is known for his truth uh i

02:11:52.860 i mean they're all amazing things i would have to say that my favorite of the the original nine 0.99

02:12:01.500 is courage. I encourage is so very fundamental. It's something that, yeah, I would have to say

02:12:10.520 courage. Allie asks, what is the biggest truth one can tell or show someone to bring them home?

02:12:20.060 It's a good question. Cliff, what do you think the biggest truth one can tell or show somebody

02:12:26.000 that would that would bring them home to also true is also true is your birthright your ancestors

02:12:33.280 literally are still alive in your blood in your dna and those ancestors are a physical link

02:12:42.000 to our most ancient ancestors the the gods and goddesses

02:12:48.800 so you said tell or show and this is is critical here because i don't think that telling

02:12:55.520 by all means tell them this but i think that showing this really works

02:13:02.000 the gods are real and listening um

02:13:08.400 that doesn't mean much when you say it to somebody who's uninitiated and that doesn't

02:13:14.720 have an experience but if you can show it to them it means everything i've said that on here but one

02:13:20.960 of my um one of the most profound experiences as a gothi is when you are involved in a ritual

02:13:32.160 or you perform a ritual and it becomes real to someone and there's a lot of people who go into

02:13:41.440 rituals or also true and maybe have been involved for a long time and they they think it's real

02:13:47.440 they believe that it's real they want very much for it to be real but something happens when

02:13:54.640 it is real for them and you see it in their eyes when all of a sudden something metaphysical

02:14:02.640 something transcendent happens and they experience it and you can't go back from that once you know

02:14:09.360 that it's real it's it's real and you can't unknow it so showing somebody the reality

02:14:17.920 of our gods listening and interacting in a ritual way

02:14:24.800 i i think that is the most effective thing to bring them home if you can facilitate that

02:14:31.840 happening and uh that that's not just something that you can show them it's something the gods

02:14:36.640 have to show them i mean i think that i do a good job in bloat um i i feel like i do a good job in

02:14:43.840 it but if the gods don't respond well or if the gods don't feel that i do a good job with it then

02:14:52.480 i can't show that to them so you know the the gods certainly have to cooperate in order for

02:14:58.000 that to be shown but being a part of that showing is is a very special thing if you can do it

02:15:02.800 um so shannon asks how do i send a donation lots of d any way you want that is the best answer

02:15:15.440 any way you would like um do we have a link for the mailing address for somebody to send a check

02:15:23.920 or money order donation see if nick can throw that up um i think he will at some point here

02:15:31.600 You can certainly do it that way. The easiest and best way is probably to go to our website, www.runestone.org.

02:15:43.460 Yeah, this is about the will, but it also has the PO box where you would send that donation to.

02:15:49.820 So if you go to runestone.org, there's a donate link to any number of projects you want,

02:15:55.800 or if you just want to donate it to the AFA in general for us to use at our discretion,

02:16:00.080 the general fund is where it would go. Please feel free to donate to any of those projects

02:16:05.000 there that we have ongoing. That's the best way to donate. You are also welcome to donate by going

02:16:12.880 to Entropy and throwing us dollars here on the stream. If you go to Entropy, you'll be able to

02:16:20.280 do that. And again, Nick will put that link up for us. But thank you for asking and thank you

02:16:27.360 for everyone who donates and has donated for us it it means a lot thank you so much

02:16:35.840 um

02:16:39.120 all right we are two hours in and we're starting to wind down here if you guys have

02:16:43.440 last questions you want to throw at us please do um all right so we have a not a question

02:16:52.880 but Nick would like my thoughts on it. Ryan O'Ryan Wotenson says, Thulian Perspective on

02:17:05.580 Bitchute said, Hela is not Loki's child, that that is a snorry thing. I think that's a possibility

02:17:12.900 too. So that sounds like it is a Norana Society thing or idea. It's far. Oh, that's him. Okay.

02:17:28.180 Well, then it is. And that's what that is. I don't think that's based on very much. And that's

02:17:35.600 certainly not the position we hold in the Ashtu Folk Assembly.

02:17:42.080 There's an awful lot of hostility out there from certain circles and in the Norana society

02:17:46.540 specifically towards Snorri. Snorri did us a great service by recording our lore in the way that he

02:17:53.940 did in a way that's been translated or transmitted down to us. And we have no reason to think that

02:18:00.480 Hela is not the daughter of Loki, um, as the Lord that's handed down to us certainly tells us,

02:18:07.920 uh, what are your thoughts, Cliff? Even if she's not the daughter of Loki, all the stuff I said

02:18:14.460 about death still applies. So it doesn't really, I don't think it would change our approach to her.

02:18:20.880 Yeah. I don't think it would fundamentally change what we do in the AFA, but, um,

02:18:26.660 Um, no, we do, we do believe that she is, is a child of Loki. Um, yeah, I don't.

02:18:39.380 Truth on that is that, uh, the, the large deviations that the Naranis society folks

02:18:46.800 do towards our faith are things that we typically don't support. And that's, that's one of them.

02:18:55.280 um i'm curious if if if svan was here he would have a 45 minute uh presentation answering that

02:19:04.980 question that would be amazing and full of lore chunks because that's what he specializes in

02:19:10.820 but um we all will get to that eventually right you know i i think that we each have that on

02:19:17.740 things that are are our go-tos that's just something that uh the the lore nitpicking

02:19:24.760 is something he's particularly skilled at um do we have any more questions for either myself

02:19:33.320 or cliff this evening guys while we're waiting for him to roll in i want to plug a couple of things

02:19:40.600 um if you're in pennsylvania um myself and uh githia katie erickson will be in gettysburg

02:19:50.600 on saturday uh githya katie will be doing a feast of the iron here on the gettysburg uh battlefield

02:19:58.520 where many of our ancestors fell and uh i'm sure some iron here you are um have their blood in that

02:20:08.840 land uh so if you're in pennsylvania or maryland or willing to travel to to gettysburg from farther

02:20:16.920 than that, reach out to us and we'd love to have you there. Also, if you are in upstate New York

02:20:26.240 or Ontario, Canada in two weekends, we will be meeting at Niagara Falls. I'm very excited about

02:20:34.380 that because we haven't been able to really do much of anything in Canada, but they opened up

02:20:39.620 recently so if you're in canada or can travel to canada um let me know and we'll meet up with you

02:20:47.900 with you there we're doing actually the new york side on one day and the ontario side on another

02:20:53.780 so if you can't cross that border doesn't matter we'll let you know which day will be where

02:20:59.640 so that's really exciting i think it will be really nice for

02:21:05.920 some of us to be, and I say us, I won't be there, but for you guys to get to interact with our

02:21:12.420 members for silly things, we've been prevented from doing that for a long time. It's really

02:21:21.000 nice that that's changing. And the idea of the Einherjar celebration at the battlefield is

02:21:30.460 really special. I encourage anybody who can to try to be part of that. That sounds absolutely

02:21:38.140 amazing. And I'm envious of folks that are able to attend that. So I think we're going to call

02:21:46.540 it a night. I do see one more question over on the side. What are our thoughts on VARG?

02:21:55.860 Cliff, what are your thoughts on VARG?

02:22:00.460 um they're mixed i mean most people are probably familiar with this troubled history

02:22:07.840 and that stuff i don't approve of um but i knew thulian perspective was var because i've

02:22:16.100 followed some of his youtube videos um early on when i was interested in nasa true so um 0.70

02:22:23.560 you know he he has an interesting perspective on things um he you know he's not a stupid person

02:22:30.400 I just don't always agree with with some of his assertions.

02:22:34.160 Sometimes I'm not sure if they're founded in anything other than his own brainstorming, which doesn't mean that they're wrong.

02:22:42.340 Just, you know, I mean, he's a guy out there who's thinking about our gods and that's a start.

02:22:53.260 I think he should join the AFA.

02:22:55.380 so i had misheard cliff and i thought he said thulian perspective was mark as in mark purrier

02:23:03.300 of the norena society so i have no idea if that's their stance on hella i still think it is

02:23:08.980 but disregard what i said in that regard towards the norena guys that's not fair um yeah i don't

02:23:17.380 like I don't hate Varg as a person, but I don't see any value to Varg as a talking head in the

02:23:33.320 spheres involving Alcetru at all. I think his ideas are bad. I don't think he is stupid,

02:23:41.820 but I don't, I don't think that he has sincere faith and belief in the existence of our gods 0.94

02:23:47.860 as persons. I don't think that his motivation is worship. I think that his motivation is

02:23:56.020 to come up with interesting and unique theories about stuff and to try to have those things make

02:24:04.540 sense to him and fit his placenta ideology on stuff. But yeah, I, what I don't like is that

02:24:18.620 people do look to VARG and by listening to VARG can get a misunderstanding about

02:24:25.900 house of true about our gods and about our faith. And in that sense, I think that's destructive.

02:24:31.420 I'm not pro any source out there that's going to make it harder for people to come home to

02:24:38.600 House of True and be involved. And yeah, I think most of Args ideas that I end up hearing are

02:24:44.760 coming in contact with are ridiculous and not of merit. I think he's very intelligent. I think 0.70

02:24:52.740 he's probably too intelligent for his own good. Unfortunately, sometimes the most intelligent

02:24:56.980 people are more entertained by their own intelligence than by true things that might

02:25:04.300 be simple and have been said already. Um, one thing that I think motivates a lot of folks

02:25:10.480 and whether they admit it or not is they have to be, um,

02:25:16.240 they have this preference for some obscure thing they can add to the debate. So if we have a

02:25:26.960 wealth of understanding and tradition over here but they find one contrary thing that they can base

02:25:33.520 some idea around they prioritize their one strange outlying thing because it's theirs and they can

02:25:40.320 feel special or important because of it um and when that guides folks i think it's

02:25:48.160 very detrimental to getting a real understanding of our faith um i hear people over there talking

02:25:53.680 about how people like his music his music may be a good thing it's just not my style of music it's

02:25:58.880 not something i listen to i have no opinion on him as a musical artist um and again it's cool

02:26:04.880 that he's got a family he's raising his kids and he's doing cool stuff that's great um but i don't

02:26:10.240 find his contributions to house of true to be beneficial and with that i think that's what

02:26:18.000 we've got tonight thank you guys so much for contributing thank you for um

02:26:25.760 all of the questions some really deep and well thought out questions tonight

02:26:30.720 and uh yeah thank you very much cliff for joining us and thank you for being the example of truth

02:26:37.440 amongst uh afa leadership uh we we all really admire you for that psych ah just kidding

02:26:44.720 you're welcome thanks for having me all right well we look forward to next time you can join us

02:26:51.720 um we'll call it a night guys i'm going to try to get a little bit of sleep before i head to the

02:26:57.300 airport uh until uh until next time hail the gods hail the folk hail the afa and remember

02:27:07.740 that victory never sleeps

02:27:14.720 audio

02:27:44.720 Thank you.

02:28:14.720 Thank you.

02:28:44.720 Thank you.

02:29:14.720 We'll be right back.

02:29:44.720 Thank you.

02:30:14.720 You

Asatru Folk Assembly - November 10, 2022

11⧸9⧸22 Victory Never Sleeps, Episode 18 - Truth

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