00:25:33.100honesty is expressing truth whereas truth exists in general honesty is the display of truth be it
00:25:44.820verbal or otherwise yeah if there were no humans there would still be truth the truth might be
00:25:51.680there are no humans but there would be no honesty if there were no creatures to communicate about it
00:25:58.060got a another question here what do you think when someone says my truth it seems to me like
00:26:14.140they are saying it has nothing to do with actual reality what are your reactions to that cliff
00:26:19.340I agree completely that they are intentionally detaching themselves from actual reality they are you know they're all bubble boys I mean they have their own little world and they when they say my truth they they are essentially saying that they get to create their own laws of
00:26:49.120nature you know and some of them may not be a very big deal um some of them may be a huge deal
00:26:56.320that's going to cause lots of problems for the people around them if you know they're expected
00:27:00.800to cater to these personal truths um context matters i suppose you know somebody could say
00:27:08.640my truth in in a context where it isn't quite as negative as i'm i'm taking it but these days
00:27:17.200the way that people use it out there i think it's largely them uh excusing themselves from the actual
00:27:24.400truth yeah you know i've i've got a couple of thoughts on it i think that it's one of those
00:27:32.320things that maybe originally didn't have such a negative meaning and has become completely
00:27:40.000developed of one uh now whenever somebody says that it seems to be a preface to
00:27:48.240them telling you something that's not true like let me tell you my truth and then some
00:27:54.160woke nonsense that doesn't conform to any kind of reality i think that
00:28:04.720saying what you believe to be true even against popular opinion or popular um
00:28:18.160perception as if on uh like testifying about something to go you know tell your truth
00:28:26.000meaning maybe express something that is true to you as far as a subjective experience goes
00:28:34.400but yeah in general i think that when somebody specifies that it's their truth
00:28:38.560as opposed to other people's truth it's probably because it's not truth at all
00:28:44.320um oh we've got a got a super duper chat from cory proudfoot for ten dollars thank you so
00:28:52.480much we really appreciate that when we fail to speak when we fail to speak hard truths
00:28:59.200we keep others in denial. When we lie, we force others into delusion. I think there is truth in
00:29:08.100that comment, Corey. Sounds right to me. Something else I noticed over in the...
00:29:19.420Oh, apparently that is a quote from Dr. Peterson. And yeah, I tend to agree with that, certainly.
00:29:26.000um over on the side we've got somebody quoting the have them all for us and i think this raises
00:29:33.600an interesting thing for us to talk about an honorable friend deserves truth but a false friend
00:29:39.600has forfeited all right to it and thus deception may be repaid with lies if necessary to avoid ruin
00:29:47.520as stated in the have them all so i think that's a have them all paraphrase there
00:29:50.960but certainly that that is what the have them all says in the fundamentals and i think that's
00:29:58.240an important nuance because these things are our core values doesn't
00:30:07.040doesn't mean they're not things that we're capable of acting differently with if there's purpose or
00:30:14.320there's intent but it does mean it should be our default setting and i certainly think it means
00:30:21.040it's what we owe to other noble people who are acting nobly um but yeah you're you're correct
00:30:29.200and by extension the all-father is correct by advising that uh you know folks that treat you
00:30:36.000dishonestly are are not entitled to being treated honestly by you and certainly there's there's
00:30:42.640tactics and context involved just another another cliff ism cliff is always the guy that um
00:30:50.480makes the point in any of our internal discussions about how context is is everything in in some of
00:30:56.880these things and i think that the context matters there specifically what are your thoughts about
00:31:01.440it cliff i think um the the use in that translation of the the havamol stanza there um if it was
00:31:11.200Because sticking to the way we framed honesty and truth in our conversation here, it may have used the word honesty more than truth, because if we're holding up truth as unchanging and eternal, then what that stanza is talking about is really honesty.
00:31:30.120You know, it is not immoral to use deception on a battlefield or in politics or something like that.
00:31:40.680Those are things that you should be doing because they're in your best interest and the best interest of your people, your tribe, your family, your unit, whatever the group that you are devoted to and responsible for.
00:31:55.980um so in a way um you know lying to your enemy is truthful i think that's what you're supposed to do
00:32:08.140um because you know it's like when when you get these you know irs scam calls you you should not
00:32:15.020tell them your social security number and that doesn't make you a bad person right so
00:32:20.880yeah no um absolutely and i think that most of the time when we're talking about these values
00:32:30.400and some of them don't have a social component they all can be applied socially but this one
00:32:36.560has kind of a i suppose it comes with the the conflating of truth and honesty because i do
00:32:42.960think the two are very intimately related and worth talking about in the same breath
00:32:47.760but truth exists regardless of social circumstance honesty is a characteristic
00:32:56.520informed by truth that is of value in the standard when dealing with noble people who
00:33:04.740are you know that's that's the default when dealing with people that you have no enmity
00:33:10.440with. But yeah, and tactically, there's, there's a lot of deception to where, you know, there's
00:33:20.260levels of deception, depending on the person that you're dealing with. But a fundamental of all of
00:33:25.880that, like Cliff said, is the more you maintain truth regularly, and the less deception you have
00:33:33.120to manage, the better, because it once you say it, it's all, it's all something you have to keep
00:33:38.680track of and manage if it's not fundamentally true uh we also have another super chat from
00:33:45.240joe manning with 41 us dollars thank you so much for that joe we appreciate it as a side note
00:33:53.000the down payment on sigerheim if every afa member donated 41 we would have that in the
00:33:59.640bag right now so uh i appreciate that joe and thanks for doing your part he says in light of
00:34:05.480the have them all quote have either of you had an experience where you had difficulty reconciling
00:34:11.560honesty with either tactics or kindness cliff i'm gonna let you go first on that
00:34:20.760i i believe the answer is yes i'm trying to think of a specific instance um i mean certainly um
00:34:29.560um people have to do that um the short answer is yes i'll i'll think and see if i can come
00:34:43.000up with a more detailed example but i think of course we all have
00:34:50.440well thanks cliff i uh i fed you the question so that i would have time to think about my answer
00:34:55.480yeah so and and i don't want to short change your question i'll absolutely give you a good
00:35:05.880answer as it occurs to me but on the top and i suppose this is a this is a good thing for a
00:35:12.600number you know for quite a few years now i have tried very hard to
00:35:18.520be truthful and to get out of the habit of being tempted to be dishonest out of convenience or out
00:35:30.200of um things like that i can't think of tactically
00:35:38.520times you know i'm trying to think because i want to answer your question and certainly
00:35:42.280there have been times that have been difficult to reconcile certainly with tactics
00:35:47.640and with kindness and i'm also certain there's times where i've lied for both of those reasons
00:35:53.640in the course of my life um tactically
00:36:06.280i have let people so early on with afa stuff i suppose this is a small one and i don't feel bad
00:36:12.360about it but just as as a note i've let people believe things that aren't necessarily true like
00:36:19.160it always entertained me early on and we've certainly grown since then but when our member
00:36:23.560number was very much smaller people would ask me you know how many members are in the afa
00:36:29.480and you know lately i've gotten very frank with just saying out loud right now we've got 932
00:36:36.120members but at the time you know i i'd respond by well how many members do you think are in the afa
00:36:43.240and they'd tell me like tens of thousands and you know these spectacular numbers and i would kind
00:36:49.640of nod and move on and it wasn't really dishonest but i would certainly let them continue thinking
00:36:55.720that uh that we were more successful than we were i think that's a really small thing i certainly
00:37:00.600don't feel bad about that but i that's just the quickest tactical dishonesty i think uh that i
00:37:07.960can think of right now out of kindness this is i'm sure that i have and i'm not trying to skirt the
00:37:16.120question but something i've always really valued about myself in my friendships in my life i've
00:37:24.040tried really hard throughout my adult life to be honest when people ask my opinion and never just
00:37:32.920tell them what they want to hear specifically so that they knew they could trust my opinion
00:37:41.320um because i i i value that in others and i really want people to have that in me like when
00:37:49.160they ask my opinion i'm going to tell them and it may make my negative commentary not
00:37:58.520make them feel good but it means they can take my compliments to the bank and they can trust
00:38:04.120that when i say they're doing something well that i really mean it and i even you know i even do
00:38:08.840this with children or whatever i try not to overly flatter something to where if i say something is
00:38:14.680done well, that it really means that. Because again, I think that you can put trust in that
00:38:21.460and it puts your mind at ease if you can believe the advice you're getting. But if you have a
00:38:25.880friend that just wants to tell you what you want to hear, it may be nice, but it doesn't give you
00:38:31.160peace of mind and it doesn't help you sleep at night. But I promise as this conversation goes
00:38:36.540on, if I think of other instances, I'll put those out there for you. I've thought of a few
00:38:42.060types of things they're not i can't identify them as like specific instances more like scenarios
00:38:48.780that i know i've been in um so i don't know if this applies to the the tactically part of the
00:38:57.740question per se um and this one's kind of more of a fun answer but i mean i've bluffed in poker
00:39:03.560um you know and that's expected that's part of the rules of the game right but um
00:39:09.260that's a dishonesty that's that's there that is you know on purpose and expected
00:39:16.000as far as um you know having to do to tell truths or to be honest and you know in situations that
00:39:25.020are difficult um i i have um there's a couple things i have you know let people fail at things
00:39:33.780because it's better for them to learn things the hard way um this is true professionally this is
00:39:40.260true when raising children this is true um you know with with afa leadership sometimes i'll see
00:39:47.380a mistake in progress and maybe just let it play out because
00:39:51.620uh a lecture as opposed to real experience is just never as good um
00:39:57.540Um, I think everyone has been in the situation where you have to break up with someone that
00:40:05.960you're in a relationship with and they haven't done anything wrong.
00:40:10.980It's, you know, literally the cliche, it's, it's not you, it's me, where you are just
00:46:38.040if the intention is truthful we do ourselves a disservice acting as though because we can't
00:46:48.440prove everything to be 100 true that then nothing is true there's certainly things that are
00:46:58.280that are true and that aren't even if they're 85 true versus 15 not true
00:47:04.920um we letting perfect be the enemy of good in that is stifling and i think prevents us from
00:47:15.800from being virtuous people in a way um like there's there's schools of philosophy that that
00:47:23.320you know is existence real or are we living in somebody else's you know matrix or somebody else's
00:47:31.080Is, you know, imagination, is existence relevant to the individual perceiving?
00:47:38.240All of these questions are really interesting to think about sometimes.
00:47:44.000But I think that too often they become a dodge towards, you know, living honestly.
00:47:51.860There's things that are true that we all know are true.
00:47:54.980and to to act as though they're not because we can't empirically prove them beyond any possible
00:48:03.860shadow of any doubt on a quantum level misses the you know forgive the overuse here but it
00:48:13.040misses the truth of the equation and I say this about our lore and this brings it back to
00:48:18.440metaphysics. Our lore is not literally true all the time. But
00:48:25.400our lore is metaphysically true. So often truth is described
00:48:33.200in analogy or in colorful story form, that is not meant to be
00:48:41.440literally true, but expresses truth. And I think that that
00:48:46.220hear on things that materially are impossible to prove 100%, I still think that you can approach
00:48:58.140truth without, you know, without defining it to the nanomolecule. I think things are still
00:49:06.180generally true or not true. And I'm not sure if that's the meat of the question, but I think
00:49:13.280it gets towards it and uh again i we want to strive for perfection but i think that we do
00:49:22.520ourselves a disservice letting perfect be the enemy of good you go with the best thing you have
00:49:27.060at your disposal some of this it occurs to me with your question involves things that um are
00:49:33.640like issues of belief you know whether we believe in material reality or not i think that most of
00:49:41.220us know material reality exists and it's a thing and it's real um but when we talk about a person's
00:49:48.100faith that is a situation where i think that my truth may have an application because i can say
00:49:55.300on a polygraph with a thousand percent honesty that odin has interacted with me and i mean that
00:50:04.180100% true, but other people listening, it does not conform to their understanding of what they
00:50:11.440know to be true. And same in the inverse with things. So I think that that's a gray area that
00:50:19.000perhaps does touch on what you're talking about and on the previous question in a different way.
00:50:25.560I think it's fun that you mentioned, or at least hinted at simulation theory,
00:50:29.980because i've always taken issue with simulation theory because i don't think it matters it's
00:50:35.920like the most bogus question that i can imagine because if you prove that we're all in a simulation
00:50:43.540right then what is what's the point in that is it a way to find an excuse to commit heinous crimes
00:50:49.300without consequence except that in the simulation there will be consequences so it's still reality
00:50:57.920It's I've I've always had a problem with simulation theory because it seems like it's an excuse to not have to like literally a way to create my truth or to excuse oneself from reality, except that it in no practical way actually does that.
00:51:18.900yeah I think that um that's that's one of those things that when I read esoteric books and and
00:51:28.580they venture into it I start eye rolling and and taking issue with because I think it it skips the
00:51:34.660point if if your navel gazing prevents you from acting in reality then it loses a lot of value
00:51:42.820I've known so many, I say so many, I've known a number of people that have wasted
00:51:50.280vast quantities, if not the entirety of their life, pondering truth and refusing to act until
00:51:59.800they had absolute certainty of truth. And so they end up not doing anything. I think you've got to
00:52:07.080conform to what's the truest you can understand and by all means if your understanding of the
00:52:14.600truth evolves over time then then move you know trend towards the more truthful but you gotta
00:52:21.960you gotta pick something and go with it and and i think there's a tremendous value in that
00:52:26.760and as far as truth plays into what i just said it's important to be honest with ourselves on
00:52:34.920things that we don't know if we think something's mostly correct to still maintain in our mind the
00:52:42.280openness of re-evaluating it for truth i think that honors our virtue that we speak about
00:52:49.880and also is a very useful skill for us to have and it's hard for a lot of people i know it
00:52:56.120takes practice to have that um next question is from travis is it okay to lie to save someone's
00:53:08.440feelings cliff i don't think so no um if if the wife asked me if she looks fat in something i'm
00:53:19.000going to tell her in a positive constructive way what what the truth of the matter is i don't i
00:53:27.160don't because if what are you sparing their feelings for or from you know if i mean this
00:53:34.520is a specific the specific situation might dictate different courses of action but i don't think that
00:53:41.480lying is going to actually make it better um you know you're either depriving them of a
00:53:48.680learning experience or you're setting them up for for more hurt feelings somewhere down the line
00:53:57.640like you know if my kid's goldfish dies i'm not going to tell him that you know
00:54:04.840down the toilet he swims to like you know a big happy ocean i'm gonna take the opportunity to
00:54:11.960explain mortality and i think that's the way to go so no i don't think so
00:54:43.740And I think that here's where the art comes in.
00:54:46.300There is ways to tell people truth that are kind and that are uplifting.
00:54:56.460You know, he mentioned the common, hey, do I look fat in this dress thing that I think that all of
00:55:04.060us men have been in similar, if not the exact situation about that. I'll always answer that
00:55:10.460honestly, whether anybody wants to hear it or not. Because in my experience, a woman would much
00:55:18.540rather hear that from someone they trust so that they're not embarrassed later on. I know that I
00:55:26.740would. If I look ridiculous in something, I really hope that Mandy tells me to fix it instead of me
00:55:33.800going out in front of people thinking I look like a million bucks and getting laughed at. Because
00:55:37.720moment i realized that everybody was laughing at me because i looked like a fool that would be much
00:55:42.760more crushing than hey matt i think i'd go with you know a little bit you need some you need some
00:55:47.480pants that are bigger hey i'd go with something different um honesty helps there and the specific
00:55:53.640so i appreciate he followed this up with a specific scenario um he said what if they were
00:56:00.040dying and a lie would bring them comfort and something i this i suppose can be argued but
00:56:10.760something that i think is fundamental we have a certain instinct towards truth or not
00:56:19.320and there's a value that i get when i know someone's telling me the truth
00:56:24.920that i don't get when i feel like somebody's telling me something that's false
00:56:30.040um again is it okay i certainly get the impulse but i would rather tell that dying person
00:56:39.800something truthful but also give them truthful encouragement and you can always find something
00:56:50.320positive to say that's true it sometimes it may be more challenging than others
00:56:55.700but you can say you know well unfortunately no but and then tell them something that is truthful
00:57:04.360and they they can hold on to and and have and i would say this i would much rather
00:57:12.080go out with my friend telling me something honest than feeling like my friend lied to me
00:57:21.080um on my deathbed i have some friends that are emts and something that they shared with me um
00:57:28.200across the board at different times this is just something that i think is true um among people in
00:57:34.940um you know medical or emergency services is like if you have somebody in the back of your ambulance
00:57:41.060and they're like am i gonna make it you don't just say yes if they're not going to you say
00:57:46.680something positive but you don't just yeah everything's gonna be fine don't mind you know
00:57:54.760the catastrophic injury because they they already know the answer i think
00:58:01.880secondly don't don't rob somebody in your scenario and again context is everything
00:58:06.440and it can be a million different ways but telling somebody they're gonna make it instead of
00:58:13.560you know no you're you're dying you're robbing them of the chance to make peace with things or to
00:58:23.640to bear that themselves in a in a dignified way um they're not getting that option if they don't
00:58:31.960know the truth if they don't know the truth they can't act upon it this is assuming they
00:58:36.360have some time to act again it all depends on the circumstance but i still
00:58:43.000think is that as a kindness to someone you care about, it is more kind to be honest than to
00:58:49.420treat them dishonestly in an attempt to spare their feelings.
00:58:54.780Yeah, I think they said they would say something along the lines of like, we're on our way to the
00:59:00.700best care or something true, but that's not like, you know, a guarantee for something they really
00:59:07.240can't guarantee well you know here's another thing that people may want to be cautious about
00:59:12.760too when we talk about truth don't ask questions you don't want the answer to um i think that's
00:59:19.880another one when you ask somebody for truth you can't be mad when they give you truth um i remember
00:59:29.240well as an afterthought um i had my spleen removed in 2001 it was my first big major surgery
00:59:37.240and uh they were about to put me under to take my spleen out and i asked like
00:59:43.220you know what are the odds that i don't wake up from this and they're like about 16 boom and then
00:59:49.840they put that yeah and i i didn't really want to hear that that's higher odds than that than i
00:59:56.620than i wanted of not making it out of it and uh you know fortunately i was in the the 84 that do
01:00:03.680make it but that was probably shouldn't would have been better if i didn't ask the question
01:00:10.560uh we have over in the side chat that uh the genes do not make someone fat it's the fat that
01:00:15.920makes them look fat and i think that that also tends to be a truth um but yeah so and and i
01:00:26.080think that's a fun conversation tonight and i think it veers in some places that our conversations on
01:00:31.200here don't always go uh another question what makes one not suitable for membership
01:00:40.000um many things well yeah i was gonna say this is everything that i say here is not exhaustive
01:00:46.800because there's you know there's there's countless things that at some time we may decide
01:00:56.800isn't you know make somebody not suitable for membership uh the most obvious ones and
01:01:03.440cliff please feel free to supplement these if i don't get all of them um if someone is
01:01:11.280obviously not white that makes them not suitable for membership in the house true folk assembly
01:01:16.720if someone is a homosexual uh that makes them not suitable for the house true folk assembly
01:01:26.160if someone is not Alcitru and has no desire to become Alcitru, that makes them not acceptable
01:01:36.600for the Alcitru Folk Assembly. You would think they wouldn't ask, but it happens.
01:01:40.400It does. It does. And I'll say this in case it comes up. There are people that just really like
01:01:47.280us, really like what we're doing and really want to support us. So they try to become members,
01:01:51.640even though i've had christians try to do that but i've also had a lot of people that are are
01:01:58.280solidly atheists and don't want to reevaluate it but they really like what they do and want
01:02:03.400to join to support and if people want to financially contribute anybody there's nobody
01:02:08.760that is not suitable for for throwing some ducats our way if that's what you want to do
01:02:14.040we appreciate that and seriously if if you are a supporter but you don't align with us religiously
01:02:21.640there are ways to support us and we really appreciate it. But fundamentally, we are a
01:02:27.400church and we are a religion. And if you don't follow our faith, or if you're not earnestly
01:02:32.540trying to, then you can't, we can't in good conscience accept you as members.
01:02:40.040Other things that wouldn't let you be a member, a member. If you're under 18,
01:02:46.120If you're not an adult, you can't be a member. If you are incarcerated, you can't apply for membership while you are incarcerated. If we feel that you are a danger to our families, you cannot be a member. If we feel you are a danger to us exist, existentially, you can't be a member.
01:03:13.420If you are currently in a mixed-race relationship, a romantic relationship, you cannot be a member.
01:03:23.600Those are the things off the top of my head, but there may well be more of those things that come up,
01:03:30.260but I think those cover most of the bases.
01:03:33.200Cliff, am I missing anything that you're aware of?
01:03:36.200I think the only thing you didn't mention is if you are on that very short list of people
01:03:41.740who have betrayed the AFA in the past.
01:03:44.960So that's under the existential threat of us as a whole.
01:03:49.980We have a, so in the circles that we've been in,
01:03:55.800in doing this right, we have a lot of very passionate people.
01:04:07.800so much of this is something that we care so much about.
01:04:11.740We have a lot of times that people have betrayed the AFA, that people have left us, that we've broken with people, far too many people than I would have liked for us to or than, you know, I can even really count.
01:04:30.120But we want all of our people to come home and our default setting is if you're one of our folk, we want you to come back to the AFA and through the AFA to come back to your gods.
01:04:39.680There are very few people that are on a very short list that have actively, through dishonesty and through treacherous means, have tried to damage the AFA as a whole.
01:04:54.400And those people, if they have that in them and they've broken that trust with us, there are a few people that we can't take the risk of trying to trust again.
01:05:37.140this isn't fair to the martial art I think that if I was in martial arts for a much
01:05:45.140earlier point in my life that it would have in a lot of ways
01:05:48.120no I don't think it has helped me in situations as of yet and the reason is because other martial
01:05:59.440things have, um, have helped me in the ways that I like to think martial arts would have helped me
01:06:07.020in situations. I know that's convoluted, but I just started, uh, learning, uh, jiu-jitsu,
01:06:15.160uh, dancing road jiu-jitsu about five years ago. And, uh, it's amazing. I love it. I've learned a
01:06:23.180of really great things with it i think very highly of it but most of the confrontation things and
01:06:32.460physical altercation things and having confidence in my ability to deal with other people i learned
01:06:39.500through the school of hard knocks uh bouncing for 10 years because i bounced at busy places with
01:06:47.020very diverse clientele and a lot of different people in a lot of different circumstances
01:06:53.100and it taught me a lot about myself, and I think that martial things certainly have helped me in
01:06:59.120my life, but I didn't start with the martial arts until I was in my late 30s, so I can't really say
01:07:06.700that that was what helped me in a lot of things. What about you, Cliff? Have you ever taken any
01:07:12.860martial arts? I have not. I probably should, though. You should. I think it's great, and
01:07:21.480honestly you know i'm even though i did it later in life i'm i'm really glad that that i started it
01:07:27.720and and i'm not gonna lie there i go far less than i would like to because i'm getting older and uh
01:07:34.040recover slower and feel like i'm getting beat up all the time as far as my joints go
01:07:38.520but i'm really glad i'm going to it uh tony coming in late tell me honestly how are you
01:07:45.320two fine gentlemen doing tonight cliff how are you doing i'm great um i'll brag a little bit me
01:07:52.440and githya katie and matt knows about this but we we dug 55 post holes 30 inches deep with the
01:08:01.080proper so bigger at the bottom than at the top and uh over the weekend i mixed uh two tons of
01:08:07.560concrete to fill them and we put uh 55 aluminum fence posts up because we have uh we're putting
01:08:13.640in a 500 foot chain link fence and i'm pretty proud of that we we did that on our own and that
01:08:19.720probably saved us about 10 grand so it's a big deal because we got three big dogs two little kids
01:08:25.640and uh a fence is going to be a big big addition to our our homestead here it's
01:08:35.480good stuff so i'm very happy about it well tony i always give you the same answer but i think
01:08:41.160that's because i i'm i'm pretty blessed i'm doing good um i'm doing really good i'm very excited
01:08:47.560about the sigerheim progression uh that's something i've been super excited about lately
01:08:52.280and we're making good progress so i'm excited about it i'm also very excited for i'm leaving
01:08:59.480my house here at about 4 a.m in the morning to get on a plane and start my journey to feast of
01:09:05.880of the iron here you are in oklahoma and i'm always excited to meet some folks that i haven't
01:09:10.680met before and see my afa friends and family that i haven't seen you know in in a little bit and
01:09:18.040getting back and seeing seeing those folks is something i'm always very excited to do so i'm
01:09:23.360looking forward to that i'm a little bit i'm aware that i'm not going to get much sleep tonight so
01:09:29.360i'm a little bit ho-hum about that but i'm i'm pretty happy guy i appreciate you asking and
01:09:34.760checking in, though. Our next question is, what do you mean a danger existentially?
01:09:44.220I will gladly answer that. But Cliff, what do you think as far as a reason that somebody can't
01:09:52.060be a member that qualifies as an existential danger? I mean, you know, people who are
01:09:57.480dangerously crazy and want to burn down churches and synagogues and are going to bring bad
01:10:04.380stuff to the afa's doorstep i know um people that um you know are are trying to maliciously
01:10:15.240operate inside the ossaroo folk assembly to destructive ends for our mission um you know
01:10:24.480if somebody is trying to um you know if the only reason they're a member is to recruit our members
01:10:32.180to go do some other thing you know um you know we we we don't want that stuff people whose presence
01:10:41.300has the potential to actually damage or destroy the afa yeah um thinking off the top of my head
01:10:48.980of two examples and these people are are on that short list um we had one guy uh early on try to
01:11:02.180create a stratagem to take over leadership of the AFA and to oust its current leadership.
01:11:10.640And they went through all of these games and really convoluted machinations and building
01:11:18.800friendships with key people and trying to get certain people in positions to have this coup
01:11:27.140and to overthrow the AFA's leadership and move it in a radically different direction.
01:11:32.180um they handled it very ham-fistedly and we figured it out but that kind of devious behavior
01:11:41.140isn't acceptable and uh that's one of the cases another one we we ended up and this is this is on
01:11:48.280on two two fronts that it was existential um this gentleman had a lot of good potential but
01:11:56.500was a constant problem as far as behavior goes and couldn't figure out what's appropriate and
01:12:02.960what's not as far as just being deliberately provocative and in your face to every other
01:12:10.980group of people and to authorities and to anything else. We tried really hard to work with him for
01:12:15.940a while and help him realize his best self. But at some point, his behavior became so far out of
01:12:21.420bounds that it reflected very poorly on the rest of us. And it was done intentionally to seek
01:12:26.200attention. When confronted about it, he revealed that, you know, though he was a member of
01:12:33.620leadership, he never really was wanted to be part of the AFA at all and was just using us to build
01:12:39.300a group for himself. And as soon as he did, they were going to break off anyway. So it was no big
01:12:43.480deal. Now, I think some of that is trying to make himself look good on the way out or whatever.
01:12:50.900since then his group has fallen apart of the few people that he had and his life is
01:12:57.380a tragic story since then but if you're going to say that you take oaths with us dishonestly
01:13:06.500and you're going to admit to that then we can't trust you and if you don't put especially as a
01:13:13.060leader in the AFA, if you don't put the needs of the AFA above your own attention seeking,
01:13:21.620then that's dangerous for us to move forward. And we're trying so hard to build something here that
01:13:27.620will be around for our children, for our grandchildren, and for our future, and an
01:13:33.060institution for our folk and for our gods. And we can't risk that on reckless individuals that
01:13:41.780that care more about themselves than about than about our AFA family.
01:13:56.780So the next question, I'll let you take this one, Cliff Freemasons.
01:14:02.260We have no prohibition against Freemasons joining the Ossetree Folk Assembly.
01:14:08.560So I get it. I get the question. I think I know a lot of people in our camp are sometimes as a
01:14:26.800hobby, sometimes as more than a hobby, look into a lot of conspiracy things. And, you know, again,
01:14:34.600just because something is a conspiracy theory doesn't necessarily mean that it's not true
01:14:40.280but i think that you know truth the vast majority of american freemasons in 2022
01:14:49.560are guys that like to network with other dudes and drink and do charitable projects
01:14:56.440i think that if we were having this discussion in the late 1700s or early 1800s at that point
01:15:03.480we probably would not allow freemasons into the ouster folk assembly but i think it's a it's a
01:15:08.280very different situation now than it was then and there's a lot of uh strange overlap and family
01:15:15.720legacy people involved in freemasonry that really don't have any kind of clandestine intentions
01:15:24.200um looking around does anybody else have questions for us this evening or anything
01:15:33.800they would like us to discuss um it doesn't have to be about truth yeah it can be about
01:15:42.680anything you want i mean literally it can be about pretty much anything you want
01:15:54.200And I see, you know, there's some populating over on the side now, so we'll hang on because there are a couple of questions.
01:16:02.020questions um I'm starting to see some of the questions and one another thing that I think
01:16:15.880would prevent membership if we knew about it is overlap with groups that
01:16:24.640are not also true one thing that we run into in some of the circles that we're into
01:16:30.040is people that want to um worship loki or worship any of the forces of chaos because they exist in
01:16:43.600the same cosmology as our gods i think some people falsely believe that they're relevant to
01:16:51.060and i think the closest analogy though this is clearly not a all the same is like satanists
01:16:58.940are to christianity like their their mythology correlates but they're on the other team
01:17:07.580those are on two polar opposite teams and uh within within the cosmology of our ancestors
01:17:15.420and our our arian faith folks that are on the side of chaos are on the other team by definition
01:17:22.860as those of us who are true to the isir so i think that factors in we have a question
01:17:30.140what about oto members they practice jewish magic having to do with demon summoning
01:17:36.300uh i would think that would be a no for afa membership what is your familiarity with the oto
01:17:43.500cliff i've heard of it but i haven't studied it deeply but um i mean if you're a member of any
01:17:52.300other religious organization then that's going to be something we need to straighten out you know
01:18:00.140i mean the question could be what if we catch you going to mass too um you know it's the same
01:18:05.660problem so if someone is a member is actively participating in another religion that's not
01:18:12.300also true then that would be disqualifying and we'll talk to the person about it find out what's
01:18:19.580going on i mean we're not um you know in any of these situations i think that's important to
01:18:25.980clarify too it's it's not like we just you know throw people out without talking to them we're
01:18:30.620going to try to find out where their head is at maybe maybe they were confused you know um
01:18:39.100and we're going to try to bring them to us true because our mission is for our folk to
01:18:43.820be honoring our gods and ancestors so if it's a recoverable situation we're going to try to do
01:18:50.140that every time but you can't you know i'm like i said i'm not super familiar with oto but you can't
01:18:56.380be a catholic and also true you can't be a wiccan and also true um and so if you're actively
01:19:04.860participating in something that's not australia religiously that's a problem that needs to be
01:19:10.780addressed you know there's there's a strange overlap in some things and a lot of people
01:19:18.140come to also true from a left-hand path
01:19:25.420background or from a satanic background when i say satanic i don't mean an actual worship of
01:19:32.300the christian devil per se but people of a more black magic thing there's there's that current
01:19:41.180and i see that current much less than i used to in the past so there there may be some overlapping
01:19:47.420things there that i guess the forgive forgive me but the devil is in the details um and i think
01:19:57.260that that's that's a thing uh but we want people moving in the right direction and examining that
01:20:04.860there's a lot of there there is some overlap in some of those ideologies and i think we see that
01:20:11.260personified by uh dr stephen flowers a lot and again because i don't at this point there would
01:20:24.220have to be a very serious conversation to judge whether or not edrid thorson could join the afa
01:20:31.260at this point in his life um because some things are are very askew but but i see the overlap there
01:20:38.780and that would be something we'd certainly need to talk about and try to figure out but again
01:20:43.020context is everything and that's that's really important um isn't edrid is zoroastrian now
01:20:49.100anyway so that in of itself would be a problem um yeah that's what that's what i'm wondering where
01:20:59.100he's at with that at this point uh i haven't heard a lot about his uh zoroastrian endeavors as of
01:21:08.220late so i don't know if that was a passing phase or just what but i'm i'm ignorant on where he's
01:21:13.340out with that he should just come home to us true yeah yeah he should have never left that um
01:21:22.700so will you get a blue check mark for the afa twitter account now i have no idea what that
01:21:30.460means cliff do you know what a blue check mark on twitter indicates or how yeah a blue check mark
01:21:36.860means you're verified and elon is going to be charging eight dollars for blue check marks
01:21:41.820um i i don't think it's worth it at this point i guess we'll see how it plays out but i don't know
01:21:47.260that we'll get a greater audience i think that the blue check mark is a lot more useful for
01:21:51.900politicians and reporters and stuff like that so that when they send instant messages to people
01:21:56.940you know that this is you know actually brett hume as opposed to someone pretending to be him
01:22:03.100and so then you may actually converse with him but i don't i don't know that it would be helpful
01:22:10.140to the afa right now but eight dollars isn't a lot if there's any utility that does if it's a
01:22:16.300one-time fee i mean i think it's per month but still i i don't see what the utility of it would
01:22:23.420be right now but i'm not opposed to it if there's a demonstratable reason to get it
01:22:30.380it yeah i uh i don't see the the need in it but i certainly don't say that we won't do that if it
01:22:39.100sounds reasonable or advantageous to for us to do at some point i think it'd be smart to see
01:22:44.380what the twitterverse shapes up to be over the next few months that's very much dynamic right
01:22:50.260now well it is and i certainly you know am much more much happier with uh the new the new twitter
01:22:58.740regime than the previous ones so we'll see what the future holds um here's a question that again
01:23:06.740some of the the devil's in the details on it um heathen man asks what if a person has been in a
01:23:13.460mixed race relationship in the past that produced a child but are no longer in that relationship
01:23:20.020and have realized the inappropriateness of such a relationship eligible um i think that
01:23:28.740This is the thing. So if that kind of, if that, if a person with those circumstances applied, we would have a very serious discussion behind the scenes.
01:23:42.340If that child were still involved in that person's life, then no, probably they would probably not be eligible for membership.
01:23:53.440um but if the child wasn't involved in the person's life would they be and there's again
01:24:00.920there's gray areas the child's still living um is the child completely estranged from them
01:24:08.300uh does the child live at home all of these things come into question it would certainly be a
01:24:14.720very serious issue to contemplate and it would be very problematic
01:24:18.120um what are your thoughts on that scenario cliff well there's a couple of different
01:24:23.640sub scenarios i think um you know if we're if we're talking about somebody who when they were
01:24:30.140serving overseas sired some bastards pardon the language but that's what it would be and they've
01:24:35.980never had any further communication with them well that's obviously less than our ideal i don't think
01:24:43.080that that you know indiscretion um should be sufficient to disqualify someone from being able
01:24:52.280to participate in their native religion i mean the vikings did this sort of thing too but they
01:24:58.280didn't bring them home to their villages now if on the other hand um we have someone who was you
01:25:04.600know in a marriage or a committed relationship and you know has a 10 year old child that they're
01:25:09.800raising um they need to own that they need to be a good parent to that child and i don't
01:25:15.640think it would be appropriate for us to tell them that their child cannot
01:25:24.120come to their religious services but we're not going to have that child at our religious
01:25:29.160services and i also wouldn't want someone as a member who would be willing to just
01:25:32.680ditch their family to come join the afa so yeah it's so i want to add some context to
01:25:41.480the question and again that's one of those things that there's a lot of details to be worked out
01:25:46.520with it the the thinking is and this is counterintuitive to how modern people tend to view
01:25:57.240religion um the afa is a community and we practice our faith as a community community is essential to
01:26:07.400proper practicing of asa true where that's possible um you know you could still be asked
01:26:13.560true if you lived in a you know a cave and you were stranded there for the rest of your life
01:26:17.640that's a thing but community is what the afa is about and it's not so much a question of what's
01:26:28.200good for the individual that's certainly important but it's fundamentally important is what's healthy
01:26:33.720for the community when we're all together and we're us there is a value to that that's inherent
01:26:42.440and when you introduce something other then we're no longer us anymore we don't have the
01:26:48.760value of being homogenous and our thoughts turn to the thing that separates us instead of the
01:26:56.120thing that brings us together and that's counterproductive to what we're trying to
01:27:00.600do at a religious service another thing is if you were to bring around a mixed race child that you
01:27:09.720agree was produced by um by a mistake we wouldn't want our children to see that and think that
01:27:19.160that's okay or that that's normal or to be desensitized to that and further by making
01:27:26.200similar mistakes because they saw that example um so considering what impact it has on the group is
01:27:35.160a huge defining factor in whether we want to welcome someone into our group
01:27:42.440michael asks will sigerheim be in eastern tennessee it will be in tennessee um exactly where
01:27:49.960lines are drawn on what counts as what part of the state i'm not certain of and until we're all
01:27:57.320the way dialed in we want to you know we don't want to narrow it down that much until we we
01:28:04.280purchase it and have it but uh in the state of tennessee certainly i want to just uh it's not a
01:28:12.040question so it might not come up in the questions but uh but ryan says just look out for freemason
01:28:17.640subversion towards universalism ryan i promise we are not going to be uh subverted towards
01:28:24.040universalism we're solidly folkish and always will be well so that's that's another thing that
01:28:30.200would make you not eligible for the house true folk assembly if you are a universalist we do
01:28:34.360not want you in the house true folk assembly because you're not also true well and that's
01:28:39.480and and that's the fundamental there's people with a lot of different worldviews involved in masonry
01:28:45.720that don't necessarily buy into those kind of arch values they're into it as some kind of a club
01:28:53.960and that's between them and in that organization but if you don't share our worldview then you
01:29:01.880can't be part of the afa and so a lot of the masons that you are thinking about the the the
01:29:07.640super evil masons that brought down you know all the good things in european society those people
01:29:13.480wouldn't be welcome in the afa either um so nick asks what are you looking forward to the most
01:29:23.240at feast of the iron here yard in oklahoma um
01:29:32.440there's a lot of things i think it's going to be a really special event like i said i'm going to
01:29:36.120meet a lot of people that i haven't met before i'm going to spend time with people that i genuinely
01:29:41.800enjoy their company tom this is what right now i'm looking most forward to because i think it'll be
01:29:48.200fun i like road trips i'm flying into dallas and uh one of our apprentice folk builders
01:29:54.920justin day is going to drive myself and whit and brandy callahan up to the event in oklahoma so
01:30:02.040i am looking forward to the car ride with them i haven't met him yet so i'm looking forward to
01:30:07.720getting to know him a little bit and hanging out with brandy and honestly stopping and eating road
01:30:13.480snacks and drinking absurd amounts of energy drinks and uh eating candy that's probably what
01:30:19.400i'm excited about doing tomorrow i will i will celebrate the virtue of truth by just putting that
01:30:24.280out there um i those fun fact i try really hard to count my macros and stay on a reasonable macro
01:30:35.640diet plan um while i'm here at home but i i use afa adventures as a as an excuse to eat off the
01:30:43.720reservation and indulge my cravings on some stuff so i do look forward to that that's always a fun
01:30:48.360part um vril veneer are there valid reasons for the gods to be untruthful to us comfort comforting
01:31:02.360lie slash keeping us safe from harm? Or would they rather be bluntly truthful and have us face
01:31:09.820the problem head on? It's a really interesting question. Cliff, what are your thoughts on it?
01:31:18.380Well, I don't know the minds of our gods. So I'm going to have to just, I guess, say yes. But
01:31:30.140But as far as what they would prefer or motives, I think that that would take a level of hubris
01:31:45.480for me to assume that I could speak for them in that way.
01:31:51.860So I'm very proud of you, Cliff, that you answered that way.
01:31:55.480I want everyone in AFA leadership to answer that way because piety dictates the gods can make rules for us.
01:53:45.880I think that the AFA is always open to having conversations and because we believe very strongly
01:53:56.320in our faith, having that discussion and trying to, I think that the term defend and contend
01:54:09.840goes to something here. I think that having a dialogue and expressing truth to people and
01:54:17.540telling them about our faith and our gods is a very valuable thing. I think discussing their
01:54:23.500disagreements with that or their reservations they might have or questions they might have,
01:54:29.160I think is a valid thing. I think that debates are also counterproductive because
01:54:36.120it depends on what the point is. If the point is to impress a judge that through your argumentation,
01:54:46.080one of those things becomes true or not, I think it's a little bit wrongheaded. Truth exists,
01:54:52.100whether you score points in a debate environment or whether you don't.
01:55:00.160That was kind of important to me on the broadcast that Cliff talked about.
01:55:06.120Tom Jump, and I'm trying to remember the name of his podcast, but are his very, very similar to
01:55:14.040this, but he had actual debates on there with different theologians. And it was about the
01:55:21.240argument less than about coming to truth and about winning over your opponent rather than the truth
01:55:27.900of it. And debate is valuable and really cool. I was on my high school, Lincoln Douglas, I was on
01:55:35.380high school debate team and i competed in lincoln douglas debate i went to nationals one year
01:55:40.340and i think debate is great but the the truth of that is when you debate in high school or at a
01:55:46.900college level you have to take both sides of an issue and randomly they get drawn and you have
01:55:53.620to take the side and convincingly debate on it it's about winning over your opponent much more
01:55:58.500than it's about the discovery of truth oftentimes um so i think arguing arguing with people that
01:56:07.700don't really want to be convinced in the hope that you can score points is fruitless unless
01:56:15.620representing also true to the audience may benefit somebody who's listening so i think
01:56:20.900all of the details in that matter but i wouldn't want to spend a lot of time trying to defend or
01:56:27.780justify our faith we don't have to defend or justify our faith we need to practice our faith
01:56:34.740and be proud of it and the the fruit of that will will bear more results than argumentation i think
01:56:47.860filthy heathen sorry if this has been asked came in late to the stream is truth absolute
01:56:54.660or can truth evolve what do you think cliff truth is absolute our understanding
01:57:02.100of truth evolves or lack of understanding which is probably more accurate
01:57:10.020yeah absolutely i think that our ways of describing truth hopefully trend closer and
01:57:17.220closer to perfection um i think there's ways to understand truth generally and as we evolve in
01:57:25.620our understanding to be able to narrow down the specific depth and breadth of those truths
01:57:32.100in different ways but truth is absolute and it's objective truth exists
01:57:38.180whether we can articulate it or understand it correctly or not something is either true or it's
01:57:43.220not um faceless one got a custom license plate that reads also true thoughts cliff what are
01:57:54.660your thoughts on that that's cool um i have no great profound thoughts on that um other than
01:58:05.060we have a minnesota license plate at odenshoff that also has also true on it one of our former
01:58:12.660members had that license plate. Jackson asks, what is the AFA's position on recreational marijuana
01:58:24.480use? The AFA has no position on recreational marijuana use. The AFA's position generally is
01:58:33.660conformed to the laws of where you're at and certainly conform to those laws when you're at
01:58:40.020afa event where you're at if you're living in a place where that's legal then we have no objection
01:58:46.980to that we have no moral objection to the use of marijuana as the afa um as far as we're concerned
01:58:53.060that's a it's a person's personal choice and uh yeah what are your thoughts do you have any
01:58:59.940thoughts on the marijuana issue cliff sure um i mean everything that you said um i mean this is
01:59:08.180true for pretty much anything but don't don't do things that are going to cause harm to to yourself
01:59:16.100or to your loved ones so if um you know if it's not legal where you are or you know if you have
01:59:23.460to interact with particularly shady people to do that then it's probably unwise to do it um
01:59:30.020Um, you know, but like, you know, like having a beer or having a whiskey or, um, any other
01:59:37.640number of, you know, things that grownups can decide to do.
01:59:40.780It's not, um, you know, objectionable from a moral standpoint.
01:59:46.280Um, uh, you know, whether I apply this to when we're talking about our holy symbols
01:59:52.340a lot, but I suppose it can be true for food or, um, alcohol or, um, you know, tobacco
01:59:58.160or marijuana you can you can judge by whether you're using something wisely or not by the
02:00:02.560results that you see in the real world so you know um if you find yourself highly unmotivated then
02:00:11.600maybe you should you know put put the joint down and and go for a run or read a book or something
02:00:17.840like that but uh in and of itself it's it's a plan and you know i'll throw this
02:00:28.080this out there, there's other uses for marijuana besides, you know, getting high. I've seen a lot
02:00:35.740of very, very beneficial effects on people with chronic pain issues and people with some various
02:00:41.320mental traumas. There's a lot of different reasons people might use marijuana. I'll share that when
02:00:50.360I was a young man, I used marijuana pretty regularly. And I wish that I hadn't because
02:00:56.780i wasted a lot of time and money um not that i never i don't wish that i never did it but i wish
02:01:02.740that i hadn't you know gotten into like pop culture the way that i did um it it made me take
02:01:11.940a longer time to grow into the man that i could be because it distracted me from other things i
02:01:18.500could have been doing you know i i have a pretty high tolerance for most things and you know when
02:01:25.380was younger people there's a big pot culture thing in alaska and and everybody would try to or i say
02:01:31.060everybody quite a few people would try to get me to try try this pot or no you just didn't have
02:01:35.700the right stuff and i could never get it to do anything to me except for it made me really hungry
02:01:40.580one time i say that but recently a few years back somebody had a marijuana vape pen that i that i
02:01:51.140try to hit off of and man one one inhale of that it it didn't affect my brain but it affected my
02:02:04.260body to where i couldn't move i was i was shocked at uh at how potent that had gotten
02:02:11.140just as a random side note i suppose science science so lawrence forbes is back with another
02:02:19.54010 canadian dollars thank you so much we always appreciate it uh i've been chatting up a gal at
02:02:24.980a restaurant lately and we got around to discussing beliefs she said she was pagan to which i replied
02:02:31.460so am i she added i don't like the racist pagan groups though at some point i'll share
02:02:37.860uh i'll share the afa but not waste too much time if she turns out to be too anti-white
02:02:43.460All right. Well, I'm glad that she's talking to you. I hope that works out well for you. It seems to anybody who front loads with the anti-racist stuff, I think that's a pretty good indication that that might not work out the way that you would like, but I do wish you the best with it.
02:03:13.460Finn Wraith asks are people who follow hell not allowed in the AFA she is a daughter of Loki but
02:03:20.840I do not think she ever seems to really take a side at Ragnarok at least from what I remember
02:03:27.020I could be wrong so this is an issue that even internally in the AFA gets talked a lot about
02:03:35.600um no you're being a follower of hell would not would not make you disallowed from from joining
02:03:41.600afa but we would be curious as to your your thoughts on that um just as a random aside on that
02:03:53.440slepner odin's horse is also a child of loki and we're not opposed to slepner
02:04:00.640in fact it's on the banner behind me um but that's certainly a gray area within our faith
02:04:08.640One thing that I will say about Hela is the courtesy that she showed Balder while Balder was in her realm.
02:04:18.900That was a kind of an interesting note to me that that she showed respect and treated him, you know, as as a prince of the gods while he was there.
02:04:30.940And I, I think that speaks to a certain amount of hospitality, but again, that's a, that's
02:04:37.340a gray area that I know has some discomfort, but no, that alone would not preclude you
02:04:42.920from being a member of the Astro Folk Center.
02:04:45.620I think, um, it, most of us are going to rest with Hela in hell when we pass away.
02:04:54.300That's, that's the, you know, and, and our ancestors will be there.
02:04:58.580that's where you know i think most of us will go valhalla is for very few other other halls are
02:05:06.020for very few um i mean hella is the embodiment of death right so she is something that should be
02:05:17.300respected um but it's not something that you want to to worship i mean if if it really would depend
02:05:28.100on what someone means by following hell to me you know if our if it's some like some kind of
02:05:35.220death cult thing that they're doing then i would take issue with that if it is you know a matter
02:05:41.940of paying proper respects that's another thing altogether yeah absolutely and and again with so
02:05:51.140many things the details really really do matter on that um githya anna asks could you explain
02:06:00.260why it's important to meet or have non-members vouched for before they attend events so quite
02:06:07.700frankly um there's a couple of things the the obvious thing that comes to mind is our events
02:06:15.620we bring our families to and we don't want anyone that's dangerous there it's a high trust environment
02:06:24.660we certainly don't want anything anyone to do anything criminal or dangerous there
02:06:29.460very specifically we don't want child molesters there we don't want people that were uncomfortable
02:06:34.020around our kids there we're not going to know everything perfectly and especially you know
02:06:38.660when we're just getting to know somebody a little bit but we want to do the due diligence
02:06:43.140in at least you know asking some questions and getting to know a few things first but something
02:06:48.420i don't think we mention often enough we don't want some freak show showing up we don't want
02:06:54.100somebody who is obviously not in the right spot that's going to make everyone uncomfortable and
02:06:59.780have you know and be uncomfortable because they're not in the right place so we want to know a little
02:07:04.900bit about who they are what they're you know what their worldview is how they how they come to things
02:07:10.340one of the best things about our events is people don't have to is we can experience truth
02:07:18.580people don't have to hide who they are or how they think what they say at for fear of triggering
02:07:25.860somebody who's not does not share our worldview um so yeah we don't we don't want some freak show to
02:07:33.620show up that shouldn't be there or just somebody who's you know under a misconception about what
02:07:38.900we're about so it's important to have those initial conversations and do a little bit of
02:07:42.980due diligence of making sure that the person there is not a problem and the vouching form matters as
02:07:48.500well if somebody vouches for them they're responsible for that person's behavior and we
02:07:52.980have somebody to uh to call on to help manage that if anything were to become a problem
02:08:00.660but uh those are some of my thoughts on it cliff do you have anything to add on on why we would
02:08:05.380want somebody to be a non-member to be vouched for or met in person first yeah i mean so that
02:08:12.420we can set proper expectations for them that that they have an idea of what the afa is and
02:08:19.780that they're approaching it you know either with a sincere curiosity about what we do
02:08:26.260or you know as a respectful observer you know for example if uh if somebody wanted to bring
02:08:33.460their devoutly christian mom who wants to see what this australian thing that their son has
02:08:38.740gotten into is we are okay with that provided that she understands that we're you know going
02:08:46.180to be breaking some of her dear commandments and that she's respectful as an observer and
02:08:51.700not participating in rituals but that yeah of course you can come see what what your son's
02:08:56.260doing you know we're we're not a cult so we're not going to hide what we're doing from you
02:09:00.580um and and for someone who you know maybe isn't sure if they're also sure or not maybe they really
02:09:08.480like the i mean i was like this when i when i first got involved i liked the idea of being
02:09:13.360also true i believed in believing in the gods but i hadn't quite gotten to
02:09:20.400it being an article of faith for me yet and you know how else are you supposed to
02:09:28.580how else are you supposed to give someone the opportunity to have that experience if
02:09:33.320if they can't come but we want to make sure they're serious and and respectful
02:09:37.080yeah there's there's any number of reasons that we would want to steer somebody away from
02:09:46.240attending events or that you know maybe we'd be very excited about having them at an event and
02:09:52.420having them get to experience that and want to become a member cliff's uh point about family
02:09:58.040members is is always something really special whenever somebody is able to bring um a member
02:10:04.600of their family especially like a parent or uh you know an aunt or an uncle or something in that's
02:10:11.320that's really a special thing and and i i don't know that's just something really neat to see so i
02:10:17.320i hope more of those things happen yeah don't don't let it scare you off but do you do need
02:10:22.200to reach out to a folk builder and feel it out and uh hopefully it'll work out and we can see
02:10:27.160you at something and uh or you find out it's not where you want to be and and you're not ready yet
02:10:33.400i appreciate when families check us out too because um they're watching out for their own
02:10:38.520you know they before they meet us they don't have any reason to trust that we have their son or
02:10:44.600daughter's best interest at heart so coming and checking us out in person i take as a compliment
02:10:50.920honestly well i do too because i think it it means that they're willing to take us seriously
02:10:57.960if we were completely insignificant and it was some silly hobby it wouldn't be such a big deal
02:11:03.240them realizing that it has gravity towards their their family member that is a testament
02:11:10.760to that we're doing something serious and that that means a lot to me as well
02:11:13.800um owl of omens says hi all hail the afa what is your favorite virtue of the nine noble virtues
02:11:23.480cliff what is your favorite of the nine noble virtues oh it's got to be truth because my peers
02:11:29.560selected me to be here tonight apparently i'm good at it i don't know for better or worse
02:11:35.320both probably cliff is dropping truth bombs like when he talked about if you go overseas
02:11:44.160and you create some bastards and you leave them there um yeah cliff is known for his truth uh i
02:11:52.860i mean they're all amazing things i would have to say that my favorite of the the original nine
02:12:01.500is courage. I encourage is so very fundamental. It's something that, yeah, I would have to say
02:12:10.520courage. Allie asks, what is the biggest truth one can tell or show someone to bring them home?
02:12:20.060It's a good question. Cliff, what do you think the biggest truth one can tell or show somebody
02:12:26.000that would that would bring them home to also true is also true is your birthright your ancestors
02:12:33.280literally are still alive in your blood in your dna and those ancestors are a physical link
02:12:42.000to our most ancient ancestors the the gods and goddesses
02:12:48.800so you said tell or show and this is is critical here because i don't think that telling
02:12:55.520by all means tell them this but i think that showing this really works