00:03:44.720we had an amazing well first i hope that you guys wherever you were had an awesome uh austra
00:03:50.400celebration certainly at thorsoff we did uh thank you everybody who came out for it thank you to
00:03:57.520our fantastic leadership at thorsoff for making it an amazing success it was beautiful to see all
00:04:04.560of the people there and uh hopefully we'll have like a slideshow coming out soon on it i'll see
00:04:10.400if we can get that arranged um but just a just beautiful event i was very excited to be there
00:04:16.160Also, since I live in Jackson County, Tennessee now, I'm able to drive and bring my family to to these events, which I haven't been able to as much in the past few years since Aubrey was born. So it's great to get to show up there under my own power and my own vehicle with my family. It's a special treat and I'm still really looking forward to it. Anybody who does not know, Jackson County and Sigurheim is
00:04:47.120seven hours and 50 x minutes from uh phrase hof thor's hof and new york's off and it's literally
00:04:57.840within five minutes exactly the same to each of those i'm sure that shifts depending on traffic
00:05:02.800and whatnot and next month will mean you've been to all three of them one a month three months in
00:05:09.200a row yes i am trying to uh where i can make um make the circuit so that i can see more of my
00:05:21.760amazing afa family more often and i'm excited about that opportunity um we will be headed up
00:05:29.520to phrase off um the flavels that is we'll be heading up to phrase off for uh norna not coming
00:05:37.040up at the third the third saturday of april sorry i was looking for a calendar and makes it easy
00:05:45.520when we kind of standardize and it's one of the reasons we did it so other top of the show stuff
00:10:06.180i don't know how quickly after you started folk building were you you know quote unquote the tech
00:10:11.140guy so that didn't happen all at once um initially it started off with me helping um
00:10:22.420the the people that were doing updates on the website with just doing a few things you know
00:10:28.340making some gosh i guess it was updates to specific pages i don't think we had a news
00:10:34.820feed or anything on there at that time i it's long enough ago that i don't remember exactly
00:10:40.260what i was doing but i was helping with the the then like like i guess it was the i don't know
00:10:49.540it was like six different websites ago so i forget exactly what we were working on at that time it
00:10:54.180really was um it was the one where stuff was coming at you yeah no no it was before that
00:11:00.340it was before the one where the tree was trying to eat you um it was the one with alistair goethe
00:11:05.140steve um in you know his probably his most famous picture um uh managing managing managing the old
00:11:14.340forums that was a big part of it um but i started off helping um charlotte and stew were the people
00:11:24.980that were really involved in doing that at the time and uh i guess through attrition i kind of
00:11:31.540just inherited it i don't i don't remember there being a single moment when i was asked to be the
00:11:38.180tech guy or where it was turned over to me it was sort of like i was i was the one who was involved
00:11:44.980in it that was you know continuing on um through you know through some staff turnover and all that
00:11:52.100and i ran with that for probably about nine or ten years before um
00:12:00.900nick took over how long have you been doing the the tech stuff solo
00:12:07.060um well i became a princess at the end of 2001 no 2000 yeah 2001 21 oh probably
00:12:22.100probably at least since summer of 22 yeah yeah 21 not 2001 21 and then so probably since summer
00:12:31.54022 so going on you know four years yeah so that's that's about right with what i was saying as far
00:12:36.660as about nine or ten years probably closer to nine i guess that's a good number um for a little while
00:12:42.180there nick and i were we're working it together but he uh he took it over fully and that's that's
00:12:47.860been a big big help to me i'm able to focus on um doing gothic things and i you know i wanted to
00:12:54.260mention for anyone who's you know interested in volunteering for the afa or anything like that um
00:13:01.780matt was folk builder coordinator at the time and and pat hall was the folk builder for the northeast
00:13:07.060and was ordained agithias in that time frame um they had to push me a little bit like i was stubborn
00:13:16.420um i'm sure matt remembers i i guess i am still stubborn but i'm on team afa fully now but uh
00:13:22.740you know i i was hosting local moots in the lansdale pennsylvania area and you know i didn't
00:13:29.460want to be told how to do them or who i could invite or stuff like that you know i was gonna
00:13:36.180do things my way because i had that kind of old school mindset of you know heathenry is not united
00:13:44.660man. We all do it differently where we're going to be. Um, and so, you know, I, I, I tried that
00:13:53.580for a bit, but it, it took a little bit of this, you know, experience for me to figure out that
00:13:59.480the advice that I was getting was, was good advice. Some of the people that I was inviting
00:14:04.340around were either crazy or uh or bad or uh insincere or or worse in some cases so um you
00:14:16.280know i i joined the afa in 2013 i was doing ostrich stuff a little bit before that um
00:14:23.480but i guess it wasn't until 2015 when i was you know
00:14:29.700fully committed to the afa and you know being involved in in afa leadership um and since then
00:14:40.120i've been you know completely fully committed to the afa um yeah so that's kind of a meandering
00:14:46.680answer but um no it's uh let's say meandering evening so i think that's i am that's good um so
00:14:54.880Also to add, put some respect on his name, there was – I was trying to think in my head.
00:15:05.680There's probably a three- or four-year period that I would say Cliff was shouldering the burden of running at least 25% of the outstreet focusing.
00:15:24.880which for anybody out there in leadership listening um you guys might know this intimately
00:15:32.960whereas other people might have ideas that's a lot so um yeah you've been really involved the
00:15:41.760entire time and in 2016 when i became y'all's here you go the um you were top of the list of
00:15:50.800of people I wanted by my side moving forward.
00:15:54.880And, you know, I guess carrying on the Astru Folk Assembly
00:16:07.740and all the development that we've done.
00:16:10.560You've been intimately involved in all of that.
00:16:13.860So, to what degree would you say that proximity between you and AFA activity and frequency of involvement in said activity has been a factor in that success?
00:16:38.200Um, you know, for, for me personally, um, proximity was one of the reasons that I started
00:16:45.660to host moots, um, even before I was a folk builder.
00:16:49.980Um, I was finding that there were, you know, people active an hour North East, South or0.84
00:16:58.560West of me, which is actually incredibly fortunate.
00:17:00.720I didn't quite realize how lucky I was, um, to have things going on kind of all around
00:17:07.180me in such a short distance there but that wasn't all a fa activity um so i started hosting moots0.70
00:17:14.380in my hometown figuring like oh i've got this donut hole let me let me fill it all you know
00:17:19.740i'll raise the banner and and see what happens and um you know some people that i knew from from
00:17:26.460other other places showed up but there were people who you know wouldn't travel that hour or more
00:17:32.620outside of that area that that showed up that wouldn't have had something to do otherwise
00:17:37.580um and and some of them are members to this day um and i think that my own being able to get
00:17:45.180involved had a lot to do with the proximity that i had to uh githya pat hall um without her
00:17:53.500you know steering me towards the afa and really being the first like real life afa person that i
00:18:00.060could talk to um i don't know where i would have ended up um it was you know when i was hanging
00:18:08.460around other heathen groups um you know i i was interested in the afa because you know strange
00:18:16.700people talk badly about the afa and that definitely um you know gave it a kind of shine like okay this
00:18:24.300is probably better than what these oddballs here are doing if they you know have such a problem
00:18:30.060with it and i remember when i first met pat hall was at one of these not specifically afa events
00:18:36.220that's kind of how it was back in the day and when i found out she was a member of the afa i was like
00:18:41.340oh i need to talk to you um sometime about the afa you know like it was some kind of secret society
00:18:48.700And, you know, I couldn't do it right there. Had to, you know, I need to get your ear. And fortunately, she gave me the time of day. And I was able to talk to her about that over the phone and to start to, you know, to attend actual AFA events that she was hosting.
00:19:05.780um but proximity matters and i always do you know it's tough because we we want to serve the people
00:19:12.780that don't have that proximity as best we can um and i do you know genuinely feel for people where
00:19:19.840you know they're the only person in their country or the only person in their
00:19:25.040large western state or something like that where um you know the proximity is just not there
00:19:32.320and, you know, encourage them to participate online and on calls and all of that as much as
00:19:39.200we can. But it's not real until you get together in person. You know, I don't mean that their
00:19:44.900devotion or their faith isn't real, but it is really difficult to have
00:19:50.600religious rights that are powerful on your own. You know, I mean, we should all make bloke to
00:19:59.100ancestors and the gods privately but when you get together with a group it adds a gravitas
00:20:06.620and a power to it and i think it literally raises the volume of our voices so that the gods can
00:20:13.340you know hopefully see us better not that they couldn't see us but so that we can get their
00:20:17.100attention right um us being gathered together and and you know raising our voices to the gods it
00:20:25.980it does both literally literally and i think um metaphysically increase the likelihood of us being
00:20:32.700heard by them um it certainly you know it can increase our worth if you have the right people
00:20:38.700you know three good men are better than one good man um choose your company wisely of course don't
00:20:44.780want to have someone who's such a detriment there that it reduces the value of the good people you
00:20:49.100have there but it it matters a lot and um my my kindred keystone true folk was founded around
00:20:56.060that too we was really important to us that we were able to get together regularly and have bloat
00:21:01.500almost once every month there were you know of course sometimes when because of illness or travel
00:21:06.060or something where we weren't able to get together but um really important that we were practicing
00:21:12.140us true in person regularly so that we can um you know be be serious about this
00:21:21.420absolutely um gilbert donated 150 to thorishoff heat thank you gilbert and you're awesome gilbert
00:21:28.620thank you and leroy donated 20 each towards thorishoff heat and towards the payoff of phrase
00:21:35.260off so thank you very much Leroy we appreciate you thanks Leroy so I'd like to you know a little bit
00:21:47.760of my own trajectory in the Astro Folk Assembly I was nobody special I was living in Anchorage
00:22:02.880Alaska at the time and wasn't a lot going on around me, but I knew that this was very important
00:22:13.560and I wanted to do the best I could to make, you know, to be as helpful to this as I could be.
00:22:22.300And so I tried to interact as frequently as I could with AFA leadership. And again, I didn't
00:22:29.080have the proximity right then i found myself in you know fairly uncharted territory up in alaska
00:22:37.400and i was very far away from you know the center of afa activity but i tried to at least increase
00:22:44.760my virtual proximity by frequent interaction and my um by frequent interaction i wanted to increase
00:22:53.240the frequency of how much i was engaging by actively participating you know we have me we
00:22:59.880chats and things now as leaders we have discussions on our uh on the back end on teams but we have
00:23:06.200ways to connect with one another even if we're at distance back in the day when when this was
00:23:11.560happening cliff mentioned earlier when he was the website admin on it but you know we would we get
00:23:17.000on the message board so before that we'd talk on the the afa internal yahoo groups and that
00:23:24.680frequency of involvement putting myself out there and trying to be part of stuff
00:23:31.800was a huge thing and so i knew that um you needed to get together with a group of people for this
00:23:38.440would be you know really for real so i tried to find people locally and it was odd and i found a
00:23:47.800lot of odd folks um there's like meetup.com and there were other things back then to try to
00:23:56.520locate people and you know there were there's hits there were a lot of misses but um
00:24:02.520um trying to build you know if i can't go if i can't build proximity by traveling closer to stuff
00:24:12.200i can try to pull stuff closer to me and so i tried to do that for a time there and uh 2010
00:24:21.240i went to midsummer in the sierras and i got you know prior to that we'd have maybe
00:24:28.360I think at most, kids included, we'd be a 10-person, 10-person moat or a 10-person, you know, dinner at my house.
00:31:40.060And you'll find out that some of the people wearing that Mjolnir are just into it because some guy in a band that they like wears that or something like that.
00:31:50.780You know, it could be that they are new at this or that they've been doing this for decades and that they simply didn't know that there were other people out there who believe this.
00:32:03.320Which, you know, sometimes I find hard to believe, but we get contacts from people like that regularly.
00:32:09.540so they are out there um you need to um be consistent it's not just about getting the
00:32:17.520people around you together it's about doing it every single month in a predictable way
00:32:23.420if you could pick a set weekend of every month and make that the day that you commit to being
00:32:30.180available to 20 people or to zero people no matter who shows up um and you can demonstrate
00:32:36.600that there's always an Ossetru event in your town,
00:39:26.540we would need i don't know we would need to increase
00:39:37.180by like i would need to increase our income by like 10 to 15 percent i'm saying just off the cuff
00:39:45.200so uh that would be necessary for that half and then that increases a little bit every time we
00:39:51.920a new hof so it follows a natural growth pattern it would be the challenge anymore isn't buying
00:39:58.960the hof we can figure that out the challenge is responsibly having the people and the income in
00:40:08.240place to responsibly care for the hof throughout the march of years because once we have a hof
00:40:15.280we're very committed to that place and we have a very sacred responsibility both to our folk but
00:40:21.600also very importantly to the gods to maintain the hof and keep it there so we don't want to over
00:40:26.960expand because we get all excited and then find ourselves unable to maintain a temple to our gods
00:40:32.480that would be a huge failure um so getting that right is a big part of it assuming that that is
00:40:39.840in place then figuring out you know where the next spot is that it makes sense to have it in
00:40:46.560And so, yes, we'd like it anchored ideally where we have a strong group of people, but the window for a Hoff at present that we look at is the quality and consistency of the people within about a three hour driving radius.
00:41:08.520sometimes we have people that come from great distance to go to the hoff sometimes we have
00:41:14.520people that are very fortunate that it's a very short distance but the the thing we look at is
00:41:19.320about a three-hour driving radius and then we look at you know what parts of the country
00:41:25.420or I suppose internationally but we don't have any front runner for that right now
00:41:29.740so what parts of the country are underserved or we'd like to put a hoff in do we have that
00:41:35.400kind of community there. We look at those things. So getting the member map to populate with a whole
00:41:43.400bunch of pins right around you is going to be a good step to recommend the Hoff in your area.
00:41:49.420As Cliff said though, pictures. One of the biggest ways to attract members is to talk about this
00:41:57.780and show pictures picture is literally worth a thousand words um there's a big difference
00:42:07.000in hearing that there's something oh that probably sucks oh i want i those people are probably not
00:42:12.920like me or those people or whatever you think seeing oh wow that looks really nice
00:42:19.040and this can cut a lot of different ways and hits people different oh wow those people look like me
00:42:25.560i think i'd fit in they're just fine wow those people look great i'd aspire to be around those
00:42:30.840people wow that's something really simple i could do that or wow that's awesome why aren't i doing
00:42:37.960any of those things make it real they see there's a number of people gathered together
00:42:42.520and they see oh wow that location is not that far from me i i should be there so the pictures are
00:42:49.560huge. They're a fundamental building block that has caused the success in the regions where we
00:42:56.540have AFA success. Being open and advertising to your family and your friend group and other groups
00:43:07.620you're part of. It's very simple. It's common sense, but overcoming just feeling awkward or
00:43:13.580feeling uncomfortable is a real thing. And I don't pretend that's not a real thing. I mean,
00:43:18.700make that sound inconsequential i know it's a big deal um and it's not so much there's a difference
00:43:24.380between being ashamed and not being honest about being also true and like being reluctant to
00:43:33.020front load it at people all the time and i'm not saying that everybody that doesn't tell their you
00:43:39.500know bowling league or whatever they're a part of that they're also true all the time that's not
00:43:44.380cowardice but it is a missed opportunity a lot of the time so finding ways to talk to the groups of
00:43:50.460people you find yourself around about how wonderful allows the true in the afa are and how you know
00:43:57.420important a part of your life that is those things work but the consistency over time is a key to that
00:44:04.780um so yeah building that up and then somebody preferably several somebodies within that three
00:44:12.220hour window need to be full builders and then need to uh eventually become ordained gothar
00:44:21.500it would not be appropriate to have a hof where we don't have any gothar to perform
00:44:26.460the rights there and to run the hof so these are all factors that will help get them places0.74
00:44:36.540you know your your other thing that you presupposed
00:44:38.860closed. The simple thing is move to where there's AFA activity, move to where there's a Hoff. That's
00:44:44.280your quickest thing to have a Hoff near you is to go where Hoff is. But you're right. We want a Hoff0.97
00:44:50.060in every state. So building that in the state that you're in and seeing what we can do. And so that
00:44:55.660may seem like, oh, wow, but there's a Hoff already just a state away from me. I can never get a Hoff0.96
00:45:00.600in my state. That's not really true. We start having Hoffs that are very close to other states
00:45:07.160when we have tears off it will border another state that has a hoff and it will be you know
00:45:12.520one state between ohio and tennessee there's one state between florida and tennessee you can find
00:45:21.000a hoff in a state that borders your state or is very close to it assuming that we have the right
00:45:27.240number of people and the right proximity to make that a real thing so you know our goals are there
00:45:33.160we would love to have your help to make that happen and that goes for you who asked the
00:45:36.760question but also for anybody out there who's listening to this also wants to see it happen
00:45:40.680in your area and i will say this i know it sounds like a distant dream
00:45:47.800but i was here when there was no offs so was cliff and we saw the distant unattainable since
00:45:55.080the 70s man if only we had a hof we saw that happen in our lifetime and then very quickly
00:46:01.720we saw us have two hops and three and four and five it's real and it's a thing you know the i
00:46:10.440was trying to convince people it was the hardest sell in the world when i was trying to pay off0.77
00:46:14.440odin's off all these people on the east coast man what's the fastest way to get a hof near us
00:46:19.880well you see it's to throw lots of money at this hot mountain california that's the ticket
00:46:25.400it. That's a rough sell, and I understand. I hope that when it comes to, you know, when it came to
00:46:33.220Baldr's Hoff, and then to Njord's Hoff, and now to Frey's Hoff, that we've earned some credibility
00:46:39.800to where people believe that formula. Up until that, everyone wanted to spread out the resources
00:46:49.020all the time. Any of you who've been involved for a long time would know this, Cliff certainly,
00:46:53.640you know, is aware of this because how it was when he started, every, every
00:46:59.280Assetruer wants to keep all of their money at home in their backyard and them
00:47:05.640and their small group of people, they're gonna build a Hoff. They're gonna buy a
00:47:09.000Hoff. They're gonna make a Hoff happen. And so we had, you know, no joke. We had0.93
00:47:14.020hundreds of Hoff dreams that never got off the ground because five people to
00:47:22.220get together you know 50 to 250 000 for hoff that's a no-go out of the out of the gate
00:47:34.060but pulling together hundreds of people to pay those makes those attainable and it means for
00:47:41.020some people right then it's not going to be a hoff near you but it makes it that much more likely
00:47:47.180for a hoff to be near you in the future once that hoff's paid off that proximity you know we talk
00:47:52.700about proximity i've watched the map fill up to where if you're driving across the united states
00:47:58.940and your places chances are we have afa members very close to you that wasn't always the case
00:48:05.900chances are you find yourself in a spot where in a day's drive you can be near a hoff
00:48:10.700that used to not be the case it's increasing all the time but it increases by people joining
00:48:16.940and by people being generous so that's a big part of it but again if we had all the money in the
00:48:25.180world we wouldn't want to put a half out in the middle of nowhere where nobody's going to show up
00:48:29.580to it that also wouldn't be responsible so building your community of people who are devoted
00:48:34.140and who stick with this for the long term is a big big part of it i want to just add something
00:48:40.220to this and i don't mean this is an attack on on tyler asking the question this way but the uh
00:48:44.860The sort of, you know, pretext of other than the standard answer is like the standard answer is the standard answer for a reason, because it works, because it's been demonstrated to work.
00:48:59.140And, you know, don't take shortcuts, basically, like there's, you know, there's not some secret method on the side that we're keeping from people, you know, like the way that we explain it and the way that we're working towards it has worked for 500 years.
00:49:14.860hoffs and it'll be six and less time than people realize and committing yourself to to implementing
00:49:22.460that known working method is is the way to go or move to a hoff that's that's the secret cheat code
00:49:31.680is move to a hoff if you don't want to put the effort into building one somewhere it really is
00:49:39.000And the other thing I just want to say is everybody can pick up and move to
00:51:51.340but where we ended up was because we knew where a half in this area would be and so we we put
00:51:58.860ourselves not as close as we possibly could have to it i suppose but pretty darn close
00:52:07.900so you put yourself as close as you needed to where you guys were committed to making that
00:52:13.420drive every week yeah 15 minutes it's a pretty easy drive yeah to add more detail to what i
00:52:19.820was saying earlier about proximity we okay so i should expand a little bit more so when we're
00:52:25.900looking for the hoss and we see what that kind of three hour window is
00:52:33.980like all right who who can we anchor this around what can we do ideally it would have been a really
00:52:40.860good thing to put one in erie next to cliff but one you know the adjacent property of cliff would
00:52:46.940the perfect spot to put off that is a church but it would be too expensive there you go so
00:52:53.900but then we put that proximity up and we think what's the what can we do within that zone0.89
00:52:59.660we started looking at where we've got members versus where we've got the ericsons
00:53:04.540and what our budget is and it worked out
00:53:09.420it it's the more you do this the longer you do it the more you just you recognize um
00:53:15.580earlier when it is made manifest and we had a a triangle that was like all right this is a sweet
00:53:23.740spot is we want something within this triangle and austintown ended up being almost dead center
00:53:30.240of that triangle so it worked out beautifully um but yeah so that's part of the thing is so
00:53:38.280even if you're you know the awesome super gothy in your area there's no guarantee i can get the
00:53:44.200next available church for sale near your house. We do have economic concerns that we have to,
00:53:51.340you know, make sure it's the right place that has the right amenities for the right price. So that
00:53:56.540does mean we pick a target spot and then we look in a certain proximity to it. But
00:54:04.480spiking your east wants to know cliff uh are you liking the phrasehof culture so far
00:54:14.980i'm liking it very much so far it's uh it's still very new you know we're going through our first
00:54:21.580year of holy tides so every one is new at phrasehof so we uh you know we have materials to
00:54:30.680acquire to make each holy tide function properly um so far we've been fortunate our ourselves or
00:54:39.160members have have come up with the things that we need um and i'm sure that's going to continue
00:54:44.720through the year i don't doubt it but you know until it's done there's always a little um i
00:54:51.280guess anxiety like okay where are we going to get the plow and we ended up having the potential of
00:54:57.500three different plows for, for do something. That was great. Um, uh, the, the culture is good. I
00:55:04.820mean, it's, it's definitely one focused around hospitality, which I think is true at all of our
00:55:09.480halls, but, um, Githya Katie wants to make sure that everyone is well fed. We do potlucks for
00:55:15.740most of our events, but, um, honestly, we try to make sure that if everybody forgets to bring
00:55:20.640something that everyone is still going to be able to you know have a full plate um
00:55:28.720we have families you know every single event that we've had has had um families and children
00:55:37.360um our our work days have been going well we get um decent attendance at those and we always get
00:55:44.240things done um you know it was to the point where before we started doing outside stuff the last
00:55:51.280work day we had we were almost trying to think of things that we needed to do um we found them there
00:55:59.600was stuff but it was good to have to actually kind of like okay find something and if it looks broken
00:56:05.520fix it you know like i don't have a set list for this week um and it's you know it's still
00:56:13.040developing but it's but it's but it's going well i'm really excited about uh summer mall and fray
00:56:18.880faxy um those are gonna i think help kind of define our our our phrase off culture and then
00:56:27.040um winter nights in october is going to be um be really great um yeah it's it's it's going well we
00:56:35.120have um been incorporating the hero and ancestor prayer um that we introduced at the the dedication
00:56:44.000we've done that every holy time since um and it's starting to become you know something that people
00:56:51.200expect and something that we're we're getting used to um there been one or two times where we almost
00:56:57.680forgot but i made sure that we we got to it it may have not flowed exactly the way that we wanted it
00:57:06.040to but i i feel i feel it's important to do even if uh even if we don't do it perfectly don't let
00:57:12.740perfect be the enemy of the good right um it's okay to remember something um after the fact
00:57:19.540at it um yeah excited for the the springtime coming up um you know the the property starting
00:57:30.340to start to show some green again um a lot like it looked when we first looked at it in august
00:57:35.460um not there yet of course but it's starting to to to warm up and uh it's nice um still working
00:57:43.540getting the food pantry to to be successful we we have had individual people come and receive
00:57:51.300food packages from us but we have never had a line um looking to fix that we got some ideas
00:57:57.220for that but um the people who have shown up have been very grateful and have promised me
00:58:02.420that they will tell people about it i don't know if that actually happened we haven't seen any
00:58:06.420evidence of it yet but i suppose the more of those promises that i get out there the more likely it
00:58:11.620it is to happen. Matt and Cliff both. What were the greatest challenges the AFA faced when you
00:58:22.300first became leadership? So Cliff, what was the greatest challenge that you recall in the AFA when
00:58:30.120you first were, you know, first were AFA? When I first became leadership, interesting. It's not
00:58:38.060the greatest challenge ever it's in that time frame i like the question because it's making me
00:58:43.680happy um so i think there were there were two um the the first one and i think the one that
00:58:55.700probably has that correcting this problem has given us the most blessings and help solve other
00:59:03.600problems you know that that were perhaps downstream of this but the first problem i can think of is
00:59:08.720there was definitely a and i don't mean this for everyone but among the the among the membership
00:59:16.720there was a culture of impiety um when i when i first got involved in austria in the afa there was
00:59:24.640um a lot more of a hang out and drink mead and talk about the stuff in the world that bugs you0.85
00:59:36.300kind of um kind of culture that's not what the gothar were doing but that's what the folk were
00:59:43.860doing and um i think we've come a long way in bringing our folk to asatru as a devotional
00:59:54.000religion and you know focusing on the positive and you know acknowledging that it is not a
01:00:03.120you know a a cosplay viking drinking festival because there were events that you might not
01:00:10.220have been able to tell that it was not such a thing um the other one that i think got partially
01:00:18.800helped by the you know the work of our gothar and increasing the piety by demonstrating it and and
01:00:26.240guiding our people to it um i mean one of the things for me i want my my i used to show up to
01:00:32.220the events wearing my favorite viking band shirt and jeans and i you know had a backpack and all
01:00:37.900my books because i was wanting to take notes but it was you know i i remember asking one of our
01:00:43.380go through i'm like why why are you wearing a suit like it just he was the only one or one of only
01:00:49.260very few at the time wearing a suit and you know he said to me well what do you wear when you meet
01:00:56.200the gods and i'm standing there in my you know my tattered jeans and my my viking band shirt and
01:01:01.640realized that he was right and i was wrong didn't need to say any more words about that
01:01:05.900my question was answered very very plainly and i appreciate that um but the other the other problem
01:01:13.240that i guess was was prevalent is there was a lot of disunity there was a lot of like very very
01:01:20.800sincere but counterproductive like local tribalism there was very very strong feelings about how
01:01:33.400um the local group was the core of everything there was all there was there was very little
01:01:41.780vision among the folk for anything like the greater good um there were a lot of people who
01:01:48.420thought that the asa true folk assembly was like some kind of confederation like the asa true
01:01:55.140alliance or that it was simply a mechanism for like kindreds to network with other kindreds but
01:02:07.780that it wasn't a church in and of itself um you know back in those days they we called them
01:02:13.860national orgs and there were there were there were quite a few of them and most of them are
01:02:19.220not successful the ostrich folk assembly is is very successful um but until until new grange hall
01:02:27.220until Odinshoff, it was not clear, I think, that the AFA was the serious church that a few of us
01:02:39.780knew that it was and that it needed to be. And, you know, getting Newgrange Hall and I think the
01:02:50.260blessings and the luck that the Alistair Folk Assembly gained from that
01:02:55.700really kind of broke the back of that mindset of you know
01:03:03.140my local kindred and getting a fancy shed at our gothi's big backyard is how we're gonna make
01:03:12.340ossaroo great was was antiquated because up until then that was like the only model matt talked
01:03:18.500about it a little bit before how people had you know a lot of talk about gonna get a hoff most of
01:03:24.260those dreams only ever got to the stage of talk very few of them got to you know
01:03:32.740breaking ground or you know driving nails into wood or turning wrenches to actually build a
01:03:38.980structure and the the few that i know of that ever were done only one of them was done in in anything
01:03:45.620like uh what i would view as um you know a respectful and pious way um you know i think
01:03:54.660the intentions were there for the people that did them but a lot of times it was you know kind of a
01:03:59.380shed kit or something like that um and in all cases they were on private property so the whole
01:04:05.460thing was dependent on that one person and whether they sold their property or who they left it to
01:04:12.500in their will there was no permanent there was no there was no institutional permanency there was no
01:04:19.700permanency of institutional assets or materials and that disunity i think would have made
01:04:28.900modern asa true a single or two generational kind of flash in the pan cultural phenomena
01:04:39.140rather than um a lasting religion for you know our great great grandchildren to inherit from us
01:04:47.860all right so that was the greatest challenge when you became leadership
01:04:51.860what would you say the greatest challenge is currently oh what are they now i missed that
01:04:56.100part entirely yeah um right now well it's something that's become a lot more difficult
01:05:07.460for us um that was easier actually when i first uh got involved in leadership was getting our
01:05:14.180message out we've been deplatformed all over the place um you know matt mentioned meetup.com it's
01:05:20.740not that meetup went away it's that we were no longer able to use it we we used to have uh how
01:05:26.660many how many followers did we have on facebook at its height matt like it was five digits it wasn't
01:05:33.060four right it was tens of thousands of people i recall 80 plus thousand yeah i don't know if we
01:05:41.940ever broke that hundred thousand mark but by now we surely would have i mean realistically if we
01:05:46.260had another 10 years of facebook life and us we probably would have got to a million
01:05:50.900i mean maybe not but hundreds of thousands so the the deep platforming of the afa by by various
01:05:58.180medium has um has been a big headwind it's been you know something that's that's a challenge for
01:06:04.660us um fortunately we have people that are committed to getting the word out and are clever
01:06:11.060you know um there's there's no level of of censorship that is that is foolproof but um
01:06:18.340i mean i think even here on on youtube um we can you know see the effects of um
01:06:23.460what do they call it the quiet censorship i can't think of the word right now but
01:06:30.540you know we we shadowing shadow abandon yeah we we can we can sometimes see the effects of
01:06:35.880you know how the the algorithm doesn't work to our benefit um x x seems to to be fair that way
01:06:43.260um looks like things actually do get out for us that way but um yeah it used to be a lot easier
01:06:49.460We used to just be able to join these general pagan and heathenry groups and go in there and start talking with people who were nominally interested in, you know, non-Abrahamic religion.
01:07:05.540And we could talk about Asichu and the AFA and it might not be received well by everyone, but we wouldn't get kicked out.
01:07:11.900now um we've really had to make our own spaces um the discourse with the general public um has been
01:07:19.580intentionally taken from us but our our hoffs and some of the media attention that they get have um
01:07:26.380you know been a boon that way we we we do get um spikes in visibility from time to time
01:07:34.380but yeah i think that's that's probably the biggest challenge is finding creative ways to
01:07:39.580get our message in front of the folk who need to see it
01:07:46.700so for me the greatest challenge is when i first became leadership and i think it's
01:07:56.140similar to stuff that cliff said um i think the focus on
01:08:08.540individual kindreds and stuff was much more prevalent in cliff's part of the country than
01:08:13.180where i was from um but biggest problem as i saw it were twofold cliff mentioned the piety so i
01:08:23.420I think that Ausatru was this general catch-all thing that a wide variety of
01:08:36.980counterculture people were involved in that were not unified around the core principles.
01:08:47.140there was a sacred cow of dogma's bad so you don't have any rules people were not able to define
01:08:59.460what also true is and what we stood for in a consistent way so a lot of people would practice
01:09:08.000a lot of very diverse things, literally and figuratively. And there was kind of no rules.
01:09:21.300And there was by that, there's also not a lot that bound us together. There's people part of
01:09:26.140the AFA because it was a big national organization, but everybody, you know, lots of different people
01:09:33.020did lots of different things and thought it was all good. We also had a fear, a reluctance
01:09:41.400to be honest about where we were at on core issues. So we had a lot of people that were
01:09:47.000in the wrong place. And I don't think we're nefarious, but Gene, you only didn't know
01:09:52.000any better. And that kind of persisted in different ways. I think some things made an
01:09:58.200improvement. Other things, I think the first thing made a slow improvement over time. I
01:10:02.540think the second thing made a rapid improvement when I got in a spot where I could directly
01:10:08.180address it. Um, but those were the big things at the time. Like it was just a big tent for
01:10:15.180every remotely Norse flavored neo-pagan, whatever. And you had some people who were amazing
01:10:22.880and solidly folkish and absolutely on the right page. And they would get a wink and a nudge. And
01:10:29.180like those of us who got it would do the sacred handshake with them and they were the cool guys
01:10:35.100which had a whole lot of people that wasn't fair to them it wasn't fair to us to have them around
01:10:40.860so it was good to fix that and i think it's amazing our ability to unite around core values
01:10:49.580now and that wasn't there there are things that you had to be very very sensitive discussing
01:10:53.740and you never really know who's on what team and you had to play this awkward and shady game of
01:11:01.920figuring out who you could talk to about what stuff and it was I'm glad we're past that it's
01:11:07.860been a very nice and important thing for our folk to be able to be full-throated about our core
01:11:13.320beliefs um biggest problem now I'm glad that you know Cliff and I assess it in a real similar way
01:11:22.300I don't know that I would have said specifically the B platforming, but it was what I was going to say was the challenge is to get our message out to a larger number of people.
01:11:32.540So the very obvious circles have largely been fished out.
01:20:47.840She's probably the most magically effective person that I've ever known.
01:20:59.460She is adept at these things. She has a skill and a legitimacy that you can feel like it is uncomfortable to talk about magic and spirits and stuff at times because so many charlatans have made it ridiculous0.58
01:21:27.240and made it have a taint to it because they're absurd she is somebody that you don't question
01:21:34.860it when she talks about those things because it is self-evident that she
01:21:38.780it's not just that she is you know an expert on the subject matter but you can tell that she
01:21:46.540has that gravitas in practice and it's really important it was cool that you know I was at
01:21:55.600the site that day too. Again, I wasn't in the room because it was a ladies deal, but
01:22:00.220I always hate losing members, but it was a really important testimonial that, you know,
01:22:12.380people thought they're just screwing around, doing some, you know, fun pagan weekend, whatever.
01:22:18.080She's like, okay, guys, it's going to get real. So if you don't want to be here for this,
01:22:23.440that's fine. I understand that. If you have any like attachments or any negativity that you're
01:22:28.880bringing in, if you've opened doors that you haven't closed, if you've got stuff going on,
01:22:34.260you know, please stay outside and don't join us. Oh, whatever. I'm going to go do the spooky
01:22:40.100seance with the crazy witch lady. She fled the camp in terror because stuff got real.0.90
01:22:49.040that is powerful. Um, you know, I've mentioned on here a bajillion times about the, uh,
01:22:57.620um, desabloat that that conducted to where, um, she was asking that the, you know,
01:23:04.160she was basically calling, having us call in our DC or to be with us in the circle.
01:23:10.840And that is the most viscerally felt ritual I've ever been a part of. Um,
01:23:19.040You know, she asked us all to, to, you know, basically call out to one of our female ancestors, to close our eyes, to call them out, to be there, to have them be there with us in the circle.
01:23:32.120And my grandma was with me in that circle.
01:23:36.160And Pat's ability to make that happen or to facilitate that happening.
01:23:42.880And it still affects me to my core this, to this day.
01:23:47.280And it's, there's nothing else that has the instant make me tear up response that that does.
01:23:58.980Like I can think of off the top of my head, six other men that were just weeping like babies because they summoned their grandma or their mom or their great grandma to be there with them.
01:34:16.620yeah there's and this leads into the second half of the question
01:34:21.100what are some aspects of the afa that might not be well known but should be
01:34:26.220that kind of stuff i think when people hear about it at first they either positively or negatively
01:34:37.480they don't know maybe what it looks like what it is and they conceive of overtly religious
01:34:46.340things like oh they get together and they do house of truth they do paganism they do
01:34:53.940uh idolatry stuff yes certainly and that i mean that goes without saying
01:35:01.940but the aspect i don't think people know enough about is all of the
01:35:10.020extra things that go with being spiritual leaders in our communities
01:35:14.340our um first when i send a welcome email i talk about welcome to our afa family and i mean that
01:35:25.360because that's really how we look at it we are trying to welcome new people home to their
01:35:32.880ancestral faith and to a family of spiritual um companions of spiritual brothers and sisters doing
01:35:43.420this and we try to look out for each other we try to engage in you know numerous groups about
01:35:50.380different interests and different occupations and segments of our folk that um need different
01:35:58.620things or want to communicate with others and uh build fellowship in that way our gothar
01:36:06.060yes they all are well equipped to perform the religious rites of aussitry but the vast majority
01:36:14.620of the time spent by gothar is on counseling so counseling people on stuff and when you think
01:36:21.900counseling you think oh like marriage counseling or helping them through like psychological trauma
01:36:28.060or sure we do the best we can on that and we try to help them with resources if they need help
01:36:34.060beyond our scope but we talk people through struggles in their life and a struggle in
01:36:39.580you know we may have a um a veteran with ptsv related things that we deal with
01:36:45.580and then the next call could be somebody who you know lost a beloved pet or is struggling in school
01:36:54.700or has trouble making friends or who's going through relationship struggles or any any of
01:37:03.500the things in life that people go through are our goals are are here to help our members
01:37:11.980make it through that successfully and healthy and healthily
01:37:17.660i'll take it um and to try to make that you know try to help folks have happy and successful
01:37:24.780families connect them with other people that can help them apply the three plus decades of experience
01:37:33.340that our collected body of Gothar bring to the table in being Gothar to help them make their
01:37:43.100situation and their life better for themselves and their family. So the counseling is a huge part of
01:37:48.800it. When you're a part of the AFA, you are a part of a community that is actively wanting to help
01:37:57.860you be successful in your life not just passively hoping that you are but a lot of people very
01:38:03.840willing to help you get there and to share their wisdom uh oftentimes as you see in this program
01:38:10.800share their uh their funds their availability to to get you get you where you're going
01:38:17.460we have a couple of different groups of afa members trying to help people develop professionally
01:38:23.180in different professional avenues there's a lot going on that people don't see that's under the
01:38:30.560surface but that we do to help our people succeed to try to cure the soul sickness that afflicts us
01:38:37.220so um yeah if you're ever curious about that ask a local folk builder or reach out and ask me and
01:38:44.180we'd be happy to get you squared away and help direct you to some of those things if you're
01:38:49.820interested question for both of you what has been your single favorite hoff experience
01:38:56.860and what would you say to a newcomer to seal the deal getting them out to a hoff cliff let's say you
01:39:05.820so first this wasn't technically a hoff experience but i proposed to my wife
01:39:11.420during sumble at camp natimus which was almost kind of like a hoff for the northeast for
01:39:18.220a number of years um but not technically a hoff so doesn't really answer the question but um
01:39:26.620one of my favorite experiences ever right there so i had to mention it
01:39:30.940um sticking to the question a hoff experience um that for me um it certainly would be um
01:39:42.540leading the balder bloat at odenshoff two years ago um that that circle is charged up in a way
01:39:53.100um that is that is difficult to express i've led many bloats through the years
01:39:58.760um i've i've led bloat at at other hoffs um but that that that circle at odenshoff is very special
01:40:10.780And I think part of it is because of the time that it's existed, the number of bloat that have been conducted there and, you know, the particular gothar who have led bloat there, I think is part of it.
01:40:27.300The building up of the spiritual energy there is in a way that as a Goethe, I hadn't really felt before.0.96
01:40:41.920It was definitely the most special place that I've ever led Bloat at, if not the most special Bloat to me personally that I've ever led.
01:40:51.360um it's hard to describe um especially to a wider audience you know speaking to the other gothar
01:40:59.180i think that most of them but probably not all of them would understand what i'm talking about here
01:41:04.560um so conveying that to um you know the the folk at large is a little bit more difficult but it
01:41:12.680at first it was very intimidating right so i've led many bloats before but i've never led one in
01:41:20.000front of founder mcnallan so that was intimidating on its own um i had uh had never had never made
01:41:30.280bloat at odenshoff i'd been to bloat at odenshoff many times um but there was you know it was the
01:41:38.300first bloat in a long while that i'd felt like truly nervous about you know not like where i'm
01:41:44.800like okay what am i going to do for this bloat and what are the particulars i'm going to do
01:41:49.600where I'm thinking about, you know, the specifics for it.
01:41:52.340But this is where, like, I knew what I wanted to do.
01:41:54.860And I was just straight up nervous about it.
01:41:58.060You know, like, first date kind of nervous.
01:42:00.720And that all changed as soon as I stepped into the circle there.
01:42:06.600You know, I usually run through my bloats in advance.
01:42:11.720I prefer to write them down, but then not to, like,
01:42:14.980lean on that writing while I'm actually in the bloat.
01:42:18.540which is funny because i didn't use the block right that way i used to never write them down
01:42:21.660it was all off the cuff but i made an effort to write them down because i'd never done it before
01:42:25.900i figured a change would be good anyway i i went out there maybe an hour or half an hour before
01:42:32.380bullet was scheduled to begin and you know i walked the circle and i went through what i had
01:42:37.420written down and it just felt so natural there in a you know not because it would be like my
01:42:47.980hundredth or two hundredth blow or however many it had been but a pretty big number um but it
01:42:56.220you know it was just it's a space that is
01:43:01.200i mean in in the you know in our time i suppose it is the place that is most charged up with the
01:43:10.980gift cycle in the world and um you know it certainly felt different from my backyard
01:43:18.120it certainly felt different from you know even the most beautiful state or national parks with
01:43:24.380a waterfall in the background like i've done bloating some pretty cool places but um
01:43:30.540yeah it it it's very difficult to describe but it was it was very powerful all of that nervousness
01:43:42.500just immediately went away it was a very you know a very natural place um and there was a
01:43:50.300there was an energy that was you know vibrating there like good vibes man but for real
01:43:56.440there was there's an energy there that was empowering to me and you know i hope that i
01:44:05.760helped to bring that to the folk that day and that i i represented our folk to the gods well
01:44:12.840that day and i'm pretty sure i did but um yeah it was it was a very special experience for me to
01:44:19.080to lead bloke there and um you know i think that all of our hosts have that potential
01:44:24.160um you know some of them are farther along in that potential than others thorshoff um you know
01:44:30.100i think that each hoff in order probably is a little bit farther down that path because they
01:44:34.980have that repeated devotion and the deeper that one is in that the the more sacred the space gets
01:44:43.140um but yeah that that circle is very special there and and i feel very privileged to have
01:44:50.080able to lead a bloke there and i hope to be able to do it again sometime i'm not that old so it
01:44:54.800should happen so both of mine are at odin's off um but there's there's a bunch um it's hard you
01:45:10.480know i was dreading this question when i saw it come up because i overthink and i'm exceedingly
01:45:17.760blessed that i have been to all of the hafs i've been to all of the hafs multiple times
01:45:25.760i because of my position i get a lot of half time um
01:46:34.320an ending of an era and a dawning of a new one and there was a lot of different emotions there but
01:46:39.920it. It was the first experience of doing Ausatruita Hoff. And
01:46:46.560we had set up there the tables. I'm trying to imagine it. So if you're in front of where
01:46:58.300the altar is now, and there wasn't an altar there, it was just a flat space. And up against
01:47:02.700the wall was um one of the big afa canvas banners that we had made and you know sitting at the head
01:47:11.340of the table there we had a head table and we had tables running the length of the hall
01:47:16.540and for the first time we sat at uh dinner on the big like saturday night at the hof and
01:47:25.100you know we had the hall line with these tables the tables were full of our folk
01:47:31.500inside a half that was our half the first half and at the end of the table it was
01:47:38.900um you know we turned out the lights and we had you know soft like candle lighting and
01:47:46.140i think maybe some fairy lights but i'm not sure but um yeah it was nice it was still
01:47:53.260light enough out we had enough light but it wasn't you know it was very nice ambiance for up for a
01:47:59.180special dinner there all the folk were there they were gathered and i was sitting at the head of the
01:48:03.260table and at the end there's these dramatic double doors um that open up out into out into the world
01:48:12.140and it was just that sunset time where the light was just particularly beautiful off of the greenery
01:48:19.100and off of the stuff and it had that that perfect kind of just before sunset light out there and
01:48:27.420looking out down the hall at all the folk sitting along the tables and then out into
01:48:33.340the world after the bright light with the greenery and and the world um just a sense of
01:48:42.860of destiny of the future laid out before me before us and steve uh came up to me and he put his hand
01:48:56.060on my shoulder and he said you know this is this is what it's all about you know us in a hof to
01:49:04.060the gods with gathered with our folk along the tables sharing a meal and looking out into the
01:49:09.740future and it was very very special and continues to be so um the other one was a few years later uh
01:49:22.940when it hit me and it probably wasn't the first time it happened but
01:49:29.340after um aubrey became old enough to to walk and kind of get around on her own doing stuff
01:49:35.340it hit me one time when i was looking out uh behind the hof and
01:49:43.740my daughter was getting to play in the you know in the courtyard of of a hof to our gods
01:49:52.060with other kids and other families and folk all gathered there and my daughter's playing at one
01:49:56.940of our hofs and she would never know a world that didn't have hofs to our gods in it and it
01:50:04.700just hit me there and it crystallized and it was such a distant dream when i got involved in also
01:50:11.100true and it was the dream of generations that this would be a thing and it is beautiful and
01:50:18.780i'll always remember remember that in that moment um matt and cliff what is a parent parenting
01:50:31.980technique you use that you're proud of and would be happy to share
01:50:39.100cliff what are your what parenting tip do you got for us
01:50:45.660um i talk to my kids i'm i'm honest with them and i listen to them i don't do what they say
01:50:55.580but i hear their i try i really try to hear their thoughts and and understand their perspective
01:51:00.700um and it's really a gift as a parent you know to to get the eyes of your son or your daughter
01:51:10.360and to you know be able to see the world through you know such such it's such an untarnished point
01:51:19.480of view um but I really do try to be be straightforward and and honest with them
01:51:28.120um i'm really really big about not lying to them and not making things up you know if they ask me
01:51:34.140a hard question about the way the world is um you know well i'll i'll tell them the truth in an age
01:51:40.600appropriate way but um you know i'm not i'm not going to fabricate an answer to make me comfortable
01:51:52.760and um you know just last night i was um owen and alice had a sleepover in owen's room so um
01:52:01.400partly for them partly for us it's sometimes easier to do sleepover for bedtime stories and
01:52:07.940all that stuff depends on what the parents have going on we might we might nudge them towards
01:52:11.820a sleepover once in a while but um before i read them their story um i was talking to them about
01:52:20.240how they perceive the world like i i told them a short story about
01:52:28.000like about getting out of the car and walking to the beach and what the sun felt like and what
01:52:37.460the sand felt like and all of that and i asked them you know could you actually see that when
01:52:43.500i was telling you the story could you hear anything could you feel the warmth of the sun
01:52:47.700on your skin and and they and they said that they could but it was you know i was listening to the
01:52:55.540radio on the way to phrasehoff last weekend and i've read stuff about this before where not
01:52:59.700everyone can do that you know um some people literally can't like picture a description of
01:53:07.380something like a movie in their head uh it's called aphantasia so i was just kind of seeing
01:53:13.460how that worked for them and um and it was neat because you know i told them the same story but
01:53:23.180they experienced it a little bit differently in their mind's eye right and um i really love to
01:53:29.220have conversations like that with my kids just about the world and about how it works and about
01:53:34.120our gods and about our stories and you know i don't lie to them but um you know i do i do keep
01:53:44.280myth alive for them so if they ask me if dragons are real i say yes because sigurd killed fafnir
01:53:54.200so clearly dragons are real um just i've never seen one
01:53:59.720But yeah, I mean, just I think it's enjoying talking to your kids is really important.
01:54:11.100And, you know, I hope I hope most parents out there do enjoy talking to their kids.
01:54:18.060But observationally, I can tell that not all do.
01:54:21.440And I would encourage people to, you know, really just kind of, you know, you're still their parent.
01:54:26.920You can't be their parent and their friend at the same time.
01:54:29.040But, you know, take the time to hear what they're saying and and just have conversations with them about day to day stuff, you know, about things that are happening, things that they've seen in the world, about the trees in the yard, about the seasons, about your garden, about, you know, regular stuff and and about Asatru and about the relationships between people and how the world works.
01:54:59.040I think it equips them in the long term for dealing with the world in an honest way.
01:55:08.220And, you know, it helps keep me young, too.
01:55:11.540Seeing the world through their eyes and hearing their input on things, I think, is good for me as much as it is for them.
02:07:02.120sabotage your current and future success.
02:07:05.360So it's really easy to black pill. And we do that on everything. It's easy to like, man, there's no single girls here and everybody's taken. Nobody wants me. And get your feelings about it and be grumpy. And then you're going to look like you're grumpy and you're going to be unapproachable and you're going to be standoffish and you're going to miss every opportunity when they do present themselves.
02:07:29.060look for opportunities don't look for of course i'm not going to succeed you miss all the shots
02:07:36.860you don't take um i would also say don't men today get very resentful when they feel like
02:07:50.660they're doing everything right and they are not rewarded with the attention of the ladies
02:07:55.620and then they get mad and when they get mad and resentful then when they do have somebody
02:08:03.880who's interested or they do have an opportunity they carry that resentment into that opportunity
02:08:11.340and they you know strangle it before it has the chance to be anything don't do that
02:08:19.600I know it's way easier said than done I get that don't do that do all the things Cliff said make
02:08:26.900yourself worthy make yourself you know known by being worth some but be willing to let's say this0.99
02:08:34.920don't settle for a woman that doesn't share your core values
02:08:39.820no matter how hot she is like there's core values things there's stuff that you know yes you can
02:08:47.560grow together in good ways. But if they are not capable of sharing your core values, you will be
02:08:56.460in that struggle for the rest of your life. You will either be in a place where she resents you
02:09:03.500and your values and you resent her and it's unpleasant and you don't want to be stuck in
02:09:08.680that. Or you're going to compromise all your things because you're so thirsty and then you're
02:09:15.720going to not like the man that that has you become. Pick somebody who's going to share your
02:09:22.060core values and build on that. It's really important. And again, way easier said than
02:09:27.400done, especially when you're not presented with a lot of options. So hang in there. As far as
02:09:32.720couples, share the wealth. That's a thing. It used to be, and we're seeing this now when we're0.97
02:09:43.240getting a good culture of um women and children and families and things women have friends that
02:09:56.680are women help encourage the coupling of people when you see people that should be together
02:10:06.200the you know your church your religious community helping with matchmaking of people
02:10:13.220is a time-honored and very successful and good way to go about doing that don't force people
02:10:21.420into situations they don't want to be in and make them uncomfortable but encourage that give people
02:10:26.680a hand up help people out if you've got friends that are single you know encourage double dates
02:10:32.720with you and your wife or you and your husband whatever the case may be um you know ladies if
02:10:37.760you have female friends help nudge them in the direction of guys that you know you think are
02:10:42.400worthy um let's help our people we we get too it's too easy to become insular we should work
02:10:50.640as a community to help pair up these people um and this is what it is one of the things that's
02:10:58.400really cool about church culture is that there's that mechanism you find people that are not
02:11:08.800you know socially outgoing to make those things happen and you nudge those people to get together
02:11:15.040and i've seen that work really well and it's something that's really missing in modern culture
02:11:19.920in the world that we live in we have an opportunity to do that for our folk or help with that let's do
02:11:25.600that a little more advice for the fellas too something that i i thought about while while
02:11:32.000you were talking is um like like matt was saying you have to be bold but also you have to be
02:11:37.040specific you have to lead her um like you're you're gonna break up with every girlfriend you
02:11:44.560ever have until you meet your wife don't be afraid of that um then try not to get so wrapped up in0.99
02:11:54.240in your feelings that you start acting like an asshole it's really easy to do that it is not0.99
02:11:59.960all about your feelings you have to control that you have to manage to you have to take control0.99
02:12:05.440of your emotions and and not be so weak that you're ruled by your feelings and it's way easier
02:12:12.920said than done um it takes decades to learn that for a lot of people but you have to have control
02:12:21.980and demonstrate that you are able to to exercise control and you know make good decisions and one
02:12:31.940of the first things you can do to demonstrate that to a woman guys is when you ask her out
02:12:36.660ask her on a very specific date you should have a date a place a time and be able to pick her up
02:12:46.160if you just say hey do you want to go bowling sometime it's not going to be obvious to her
02:12:52.740that that's even a request for a date and she'll probably say yeah that sounds nice and then
02:12:58.300you realize that you didn't actually make a date she just gave you a polite yeah sure i like bowling
02:13:03.560so be real specific and and use the word date make it really clear that there's no confusion
02:13:11.520that you are courting her i went so far as to use that word with my wife rather early on in our
02:13:19.500dating um if that's what you're looking for and that's what she's looking for she's going to
02:13:25.560respect that you're being direct and not wasting your time and if that's not what she's into you're
02:13:30.740going to save yourself the trouble of wasting time on it and you're going to save her the time too
02:13:34.300it's and this is much much easier said than done and i
02:13:40.780i'm not this guy so i had to find other ways and other things came into play to make stuff work
02:13:48.720well but it is way easier like cliff said though to rip the band-aid off and you know straight up
02:13:57.760hey, do you want to go on a date with me to do X at X time?
02:19:53.600like if that's something someone wants to establish i'm against it because that is counter to
02:19:59.360the ostrich folk assembly furthering the declaration of purpose um it might seem cliche
02:20:07.200but anyone who is not with us is against us and that doesn't mean that they're bad people0.60
02:20:11.840necessarily but they are a counterweight on what we are trying to do um any efforts that they put
02:20:18.160towards something like that um is slowing down our successful model of establishing hof to the
02:20:25.760ace here that we discussed earlier in the show and i think is therefore depriving the gods of
02:20:34.480temples in mid guard in the proper time frame that they're due um those 40 people
02:20:42.000should join the aussie true folk assembly that's also 40 people we don't have background checks on
02:20:47.520and don't know if they're safe for our families to be around so all right i don't by the nature
02:20:56.560of the question is it an invite for afa people to attend your hof that has a 40 person attendance
02:21:04.480Or is it we have 40 people here that would like to make a Hoff that the AFA could attend stuff at or maybe be supportive in making it happen.
02:21:17.840a couple of things I would never speak against or do something to prevent our gods from getting
02:21:40.100a hoff i'm not telling people don't do that or you can't do that or it's bad or whatever
02:21:50.180gifting a hoff to our gods is wonderful
02:21:57.300i believe with every ounce of my being that the right way to do that is for it to be an afa off
02:22:05.140um and i i know that sounds self-serving or whatever it sounds like because i am who i am
02:22:14.900but i am who i am because i believe that to my core um
02:22:18.940if you have 40 people in utah that are folkish that are also true and you want a hof to happen
02:22:29.620in utah if you've already got a community of 40 people to get together get them to join the asa
02:22:37.860true folk assembly and that is an amazing seed for us to build and establish a hof somewhere where we
02:22:44.980could very much use a hof get on the team and let's do that let's try to make that happen let's
02:22:52.100try to make that a thing that's the best solution um you know again i'm not gonna0.99
02:23:02.900i'm not gonna encourage anybody not to make a hoff to the gods but the way that works
02:23:09.700the only way that has worked in over a thousand years is the afa way
02:23:17.860will we be successful with these hoffs forever i'm committed to doing my best to make that a reality
02:23:26.980but we have been successful with odenshoff for 10 and a half years now we have been successful
02:23:37.140with thorshoff and baldershoff for uh five and a half five six years now
02:23:46.980we have been successful with new words off for three years now and we've been successful
02:23:52.580with phrasehoff for five months now just about so it works it is what's working
02:24:03.140and i know that it is the thing that has the greatest chance of making a off successful in the
02:24:10.500long term other buildings used as hoffs that are owned by individuals those buildings cease being
02:24:23.620hoffs and cease being sacred and get sold with property and torn down we've seen that happen a
02:24:30.100number of times um their own thing real quick the definition of a hoff versus a bloat hall
02:24:40.020or a stalli or the thing that's at uh othala acres i think that might be an important thing okay so
02:24:50.340any of those things because that's an issue of scale any building that you want to call a hoff
02:24:57.860any bloat hall any sacred space that is owned by a small group of people it tends to stop
02:25:08.740being a sacred space as soon as that small group breaks up do all small groups break up
02:25:16.900i don't know but they tend to the vast majority of them do i know countless ones that have
02:25:26.420if it's owned by an individual if something or anything happens to that individual if they pass
02:25:33.860away if they get butt hurt if they find jesus whatever they do all of a sudden you're hoff
02:25:40.660in the hoff anymore they sell the property they go broke they go bankrupt you lose those things
02:25:49.460the afa tried to build a hoff many years ago
02:25:55.860like 2005 or something on land that was promised in perpetuity to be the afa's land that this
02:26:02.660hoff would be on and so blood sweat and tears went into the construction of this hoff
02:26:09.700and right before it became you know a dedicated used afa hoff the guy had a case of butt hurt
02:26:17.780and sold the land with the hoff on it out from under the afa and that just disappeared overnight
02:26:25.860If the AFA has a Hoff, the entire weight of the AFA is on making that Hoff be successful for eternity.0.89
02:26:37.000That's something the AFA has the capability, and we are the only group that has the capability, credibly, to do that and have an assurance, a reasonable assurance that that's a thing.
02:26:51.360um so yeah get with the afa and let's do that that is the best way to do it and i don't again
02:27:01.460i'm not i would never begrudge these the gods a hoff but the afa and going through the afa
02:27:09.540is the way to do that a million percent is the way to do that um matt cliff as leadership and0.83
02:27:19.800long-term outdoor, what is the hardest diversity that you've defeated slash overcome and conquered?
02:27:26.480I think it's adversity, but conquering diversity entertains me.
02:27:34.340And along with that theme, what one phrase has been a mantra in your life? Cliff?
02:27:43.180Well, I mean, in some ways you did conquer some diversity when you
02:27:47.820became Alshir Gauthier there were some issues you settled um adversity um
02:27:57.020honestly I didn't believe in myself very much um for probably
02:28:10.960definitely the first 20 years of my life maybe even the first 30
02:28:15.720um you know that's where a lot of my speech to the fellows about confidence comes from
02:28:21.020i was very much on the the weak end of that spectrum um you know stridling up to a lady
02:28:30.120that i thought was pretty and trying to make small talk if i said anything at all being super
02:28:35.700unclear about my intentions and it wasn't just in you know love that that i behaved that way um
02:28:43.500Um, you know, it, it took me a long time to figure out that, um, while reputation matters
02:28:52.500and what other people think of me does matter, it doesn't rule me and it shouldn't be something
02:28:59.260that, um, is part of my calculation for, for what's right and wrong or, or for who I am.
02:29:08.920And, you know, a lot of a lot of what helped me with that was Asatru itself, realizing, you know, I think part of it is that, you know, kind of Christianity kind of kind of beats that into people.
02:29:26.300You know, the whole concept of submission is really baked into Christianity and, you know, the whole, you know, pride is a sin in in Christianity.0.76
02:29:37.040And so, you know, I'm not angry at anyone for it, but I think that a lot of my upbringing and my schooling was kind of revolved around, centered around that, you know, the rejection of self.
02:29:51.080And once I realized that I was okay and that, you know, I needed to be the protagonist in my own life, basically, that things started to work.
02:30:14.140And Asichu was a big part of that for me because that's where I really figured out that I wasn't alone, that, you know, that my ancestors were like literally behind me, that they had my back and that I had a sense of where I was going and why I was going there.
02:30:37.000So, I mean, you know, that's the biggest one for me.
02:30:42.580There has, you know, I, I needed to believe in myself a lot before I was able to do anything of real consequence in my life.
02:30:51.800And I think that that's a struggle that a lot of our young men share.
02:30:57.220It is a, you know, it's a sad fact that a lot of men, most, the number one cause of death in the AFA is suicide and the, primarily among our young men.
02:31:08.520while i was never suicidal in any way i didn't have thoughts like that i can kind of sympathize
02:31:13.000with it to a point because our men are not taught that they have value in the world anymore um and
02:31:22.600that's a that's something that they kind of have to find for themselves but that we need to
02:31:26.440try to guide them to where we can point to it for them and we can give them clues but they kind of
02:31:32.120really do have to internalize it on their own there's nothing that we can say or do to convince
02:31:38.360some of that um yeah so you know i think it's um it's partly tied in with that that phrase
02:31:49.480hoffmodo by our good names like my name my family name my given name these are things that um
02:32:01.240you know that my family gave to me and that i can help then i can
02:32:06.600that i can use to kind of help define myself things that i want to have good reputation
02:32:11.700things that i want my son and his sons and his grandsons to to remember with pride and
02:32:18.860yeah i think it's important um our our men folk in the world today the the confidence problem is
02:32:28.140real and i think that it sometimes has tragic results and um and as true as the cure i mean
02:32:35.920it's it's that's you know the preacher in me saying that but it's true also true is literally
02:32:41.140the cure for the soul sickness and the confidence issue is i think one of the primary ways it
02:32:48.020manifests among our young men and it leads them to all the chemical abuses and degeneracy and
02:32:54.600all that stuff that's out there so it's hard to answer the question because i try to think
02:33:05.900of when i think of specific adversity things that have been overcome the race like specific incidents
02:33:24.300and i think the bigger picture things it's a little bit ambitious to say they've been defeated
02:33:33.580or overcome but i think i've made progress towards overcoming some of them on the bigger
02:40:55.600because I was doing a lot of his work for a couple of years there.
02:40:59.820But trying to be supportive and letting him take credit for it,
02:41:02.520but I was doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
02:41:04.200So he said at the time that I would never be able to do this,
02:41:12.400that I shouldn't have been the one to take over,
02:41:16.100that I should have been under him so that he could be the charismatic leader
02:41:22.940And I can be the one behind the scenes doing the work, but that I didn't have it in me or the charisma or the leadership or whatever that I didn't have it in me to make this a successful and it was all going to fail.
02:41:34.920And, you know, that has been at the forefront of a lot of things was to, um, to disprove that and to use that to fuel me to redouble my efforts to be successful and to make the AFA successful.
02:42:00.220to overcome whatever that proclamation and that expectation was to do this in a way that is
02:42:09.920maximally successful. And that's just kind of a personal challenge that, you know, to say I've
02:42:15.160overcome it, we can judge the ice when it's crossed. But I so far for 10 years this year have
02:42:22.660tried very hard to overcome it. And I think that there's a lot of successes that I've been
02:42:30.200able to accomplish so that's that is something that's been at the forefront
02:42:42.040um next up this is all you cliff what's happening at phrasehof such as repairs slash or comma
02:42:51.240weather issues regular weather so i'll address that first it snowed in the winter it has melted
02:42:58.920so now the field is muddy and uh i expect that by july we'll have a very dry field with you know
02:43:05.720cracks in the dirt until it starts raining again um one i guess one weather related issue is we are
02:43:13.000um in the process of of sealing the back wall foundation um we have all the uh
02:43:22.120all the lock type paint for the concrete that we need there we're just waiting for
02:43:25.560a good work day where we get there and everything is bone dry so we can apply it
02:43:32.120some some of our volunteers did a very awesome job of scrubbing that clean
02:43:37.320um to within an inch of its death as githya katie would say or within an inch of its life
02:43:42.920not its death i guess it's kind of the same thing just which side you're on um but it uh
02:43:49.000it required scrubbing it with um with cleaning vinegar and so they were they were gassed out of
02:43:55.240that room a couple of times while they were working on it, but it is all complete. There
02:43:59.980was a little bit of a mold problem because there had been a flood there before we bought it.
02:44:04.020Sump pump failed. It's the only issue that way. So that's ready to go, and we don't expect to
02:44:10.760have any further problems with that. As far as other work that's going on there, we have begun
02:44:16.720the process of clearing a space in the woods on the property for use for our outdoor vey
02:44:26.640we're not quite sure when we're going to be able to dedicate it um
02:44:32.320but i i had my eye on mayday but it has to be ready if it's not ready we will we will do other
02:44:37.600things we can um you know use the field and the maypole would be in the field um we are
02:44:46.720let's see so we're clearing the we're getting the area cleared there oh there's also um
02:44:55.760potentially a bees nest we had some there were some issues with some bees when we first bought
02:45:00.720the property it was in the fall so they were already kind of um going into their inactive
02:45:05.760phase so we didn't address it then we had a lot of other things to take care of before dedication
02:45:12.160um i've been reaching out to exterminators and they've told me that they really can't do anything
02:45:17.920about it until it's active but that if it is wasps like it i said bees but i meant i mean wasps when
02:45:23.520i say that they were definitely not honeybees um that they probably won't return to the same nest
02:45:29.840i am skeptical about that because it's massive and there are points of entry at the top gable
02:45:34.800areas that i suspect if uh if the same queen is not there there will be a new one more than happy
02:45:40.000to move in so we're keeping an eye on it and the first sign of activity we're going to get that
02:45:44.000addressed also the roof gabling itself needs to be addressed because when there is not be activity
02:45:50.560up there we want those holes where they gain entry sealed off um and eventually maybe even
02:45:56.880this year but i'm not promising that uh we want to get um the the proper stylized gables up on
02:46:04.480both ends of the hoff the front first of course but there will be two two stags in the the cross
02:46:11.520gables like on the on the logo up there at some point and if we're up there doing work anyway
02:46:17.040that's a pretty reasonable time to do it and githya katie's gotten a lot of practice with
02:46:21.360the router doing the sign for phrase off out front so um we should be able to get a lot of that work
02:46:26.560done in-house um and except for the bees we don't really need a bucket truck or a scaffolding to do
02:46:33.760it because you can get access to it by going up on the roof on the sides where it's fairly low
02:46:38.480and working from on top of the roof i wouldn't want to do that for bee removal though because
02:46:42.880if you got to move quick that's a really not a good spot to be no pun intended there um
02:46:50.000and that's our our list for the time being um longer term we would eventually like to remodel
02:46:55.280the kitchen and we'd like to take the central storage room downstairs and turn it into a
02:47:00.640library as i've advertised it to people but for now it's kind of just temporary storage
02:47:05.680those are those are probably post phrasehoff paid off kind of projects but um that's where we're at
02:47:13.680we also you know i we want to start to get um fruit trees and some perennial plants planted
02:47:23.200there that bear fruit uh it's really important to us that um at phrasehof we have um you know
02:47:31.120apple trees or pear trees and we we'd like to establish a community garden there so getting
02:47:37.040some basic things started for that this year is going to be important we may start with an herb
02:47:41.200garden they tend to be more easy to maintain um and you know they can be used in the kitchen
02:47:47.840and in bloat depending on what herb it is um and we'll go from there lots of lots of long-term
02:47:55.040grand visions of things but uh it'll be a while before you know we're erecting uh you know a
02:48:01.920stonehenge or anything like that but we see we have talked about it we just don't know how we're
02:48:06.560gonna pull it off i've talked about a woodhenge too but first things first we need to get a fire
02:48:11.440pit and have a clearing in the woods it's exciting um a new hof and all of the just hopes and dreams
02:48:22.560and excitement for it is always a really cool thing we do know where the cemetery will go
02:48:29.680once we need it we are going to make sure that area is you know not used for anything else in
02:48:36.400the meantime um on the on the road frontage on the other side of the parking lot from the
02:48:41.760hoth is where we're going to reserve the spot for a cemetery which hopefully we won't need for a
02:48:46.480long time but you know in the full natural life cycle of things it it will be a thing that we'll
02:48:52.000need um and we have some some ideas about where we'd like to put a playground and get some fenced
02:48:58.160in areas for the for the kids so that you know we can have them out there in the summer and you know
02:49:04.000have the mostly free range but not running out into the street stuff like that um a lot of that
02:49:10.640stuff requires fundraising or people visiting our uh our what is it our amazon wish list um
02:49:18.640we have some of the things we need up there i actually have to sit down with githya katie and
02:49:22.400make sure we add some stuff to it a lot of the basic things that we needed and stuff people
02:49:27.760been real generous about we we thank everyone who's uh you know purchased something or other
03:04:23.540no it's not a struggle that's going to be rewarded and that is an entire waste of your time
03:04:31.220reaching out to your representative and expressing things that you want i also don't think is
03:04:39.140rewarded but i think there is some tangible to it i think them hearing from a constituent
03:04:46.660and you know maybe you inspire them to ask man do other people think this too
03:04:52.420it's it's not impossible there's not a zero percent chance that that inspires them to do
03:04:57.860something there is a zero percent chance that hey guys we should resegregate the united states
03:05:05.700that will make you a joke and get you completely rejected if not set them up to be afraid of other
03:05:14.900scary racists that comment that you know reach out to them and i'm not i'm not judging your
03:05:20.340position i'm just telling you what will happen if you reach out to actually elected white politicians
03:05:26.260and say that i think it's to whatever effect that's going to have any impact in a positive way
03:05:36.420you pick a much more incremental step on something like you push for a
03:05:46.900relaxing of forced integration of things if your issue is a segregation issue
03:05:52.100then you try to push back on you know housing and things that may be forcibly integrated
03:06:00.820where you want an option to not be forcibly integrated or you know you pick something
03:06:09.740that's much closer to be um conceivable as a direction to go and like you know express your
03:06:21.020issues about safety acknowledge that you know maybe it is a particular part of the population
03:06:25.900that is particularly unsafe and try to figure out ways around that in a in a smaller scale but
03:06:34.780just a blanket hey we need to resegregate that's not that will immediately get laughed out of the
03:06:43.240room if not scare people and that's not going to move you forward or have any positive effect
03:06:48.480So I think picking something smaller that incrementally moves towards something that is a goal is a much more effective thing.
03:06:56.180But I do would encourage everyone to act in a legal and responsible political way to express, you know, your views and your politics that you want achieved.
03:07:07.300I think that's absolutely something that we all should do to the ability that we're engaged or that it's important to us.
03:07:13.780And I think reaching out for a variety of your concerns to your elected representative is most likely not going to help, but it's not a zero percent. It's better than nothing. And if like const categorical imperative, if we all did that, then things would absolutely move in a direction that you want.
03:07:35.520if you're the only guy who does it probably not but if everyone listening to my voice were all
03:07:42.320in the same place and they were in a town of a thousand people then i think that maybe something
03:07:48.540good would happen like if they were all in jackson county yeah and that's so very realistically
03:07:54.960we talked about proximity to bring it back into that move to where there's a hof move to jackson
03:08:03.440county tennessee the proximity makes us a significant group demographic in a small town
03:08:13.200in a small county to have a voice in local politics and this isn't to advocate for your
03:08:20.240particular segregation issue or not but for any issue that's important to us and that we believe in
03:08:26.000then people if we are murdoch minnesota where we have boulders off is a town of 309 people
03:08:37.580if we had enough people move there and it wouldn't take that many we had 30 people move there we had
03:08:43.68031 people move there we would be 10 of that population they would have to consider the
03:08:49.520else a true vote. I don't think people have had to think about that in a very, very long time.
03:08:56.420If you have numbers in a community, then the panderers that Cliff talked about will consider
03:09:02.300having to pander to you. That's something that in our lifetime, we're not used to.
03:09:09.720And I think that it is very realistic in a very small town or a very small county
03:09:14.260to be significant and not to change the entire world but to change specific things for the
03:09:23.260better in the place that you're in i think that often you know our people want to talk about
03:09:29.000political activism and you know marching in a skull mask and like yelling at people i don't
03:09:35.700really think has done a lot good for us a lot of people don't consider it actually being involved
03:09:42.820in politics actually getting groups of people to together to rally behind specific candidates or
03:09:50.340specific issues to be involved in the political process and i think a lot of us you know are
03:09:58.660very disheartened we've seen a lot of um electoral theft and you know cheating happen and it makes
03:10:07.780it hard but i think that the more local it is the more likely it is to have an impact and to be
03:10:13.700fairer but you know again for the amount of effort it takes to do those things versus the
03:10:23.380potential reward i think that there's a potential in that so yeah we encourage everybody yet don't
03:10:28.900get the idea that you ought not be political act politically active there's a difference between
03:10:33.860you know and i'm not even decrying this i'm just saying i haven't seen it to be effective
03:10:42.420like marching in the streets and running for office or you know getting involved in political
03:10:50.260campaign process processes i think the second is more likely to actually have any kind of an effect
03:10:57.220in the world that you live in in a positive way but you know as long as it's legal be involved
03:11:02.420with the things that you care about politically go do that if you'd like to and that may look
03:11:07.380different for different you know members here i'm sure we're not in lockstep on all of our
03:11:11.780all of our political policy you know preferences but stand behind things that you're passionate
03:11:18.500about that's always something that we should do um that's the last oh i i missed it earlier i
03:11:26.660meant to say something and i didn't when it was my turn virginia if you're still around that was
03:11:31.060a very nice thing you to say thank you for the compliment um
03:11:38.180yeah that's our uh any any parting parting message to the folk tonight cliff