00:03:28.080Oh, hello folks, and welcome to another Victory Never Sleeps. I wasn't quite sure if we were on yet or not. As we are, we're moving along in the next series. We're following the Bellows translations from the website voluspau.org.
00:03:50.060If you're able to follow along with us, please, by all means, go to that website and you can follow along there.
00:04:01.240If you have any other translations and you want to bring some stuff up from any of the other translations, we highly welcome it.
00:04:08.580We have no particular preference of translations other than personal preferences, but from a studying and theosophical standpoint, we open all of them, and we're moving into an interesting one.
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00:13:29.580and we will answer all of those this is one of our lore episodes so we
00:13:37.100going to kind of see how it goes sometimes with the questions over on the side on what we answer
00:13:44.940and when we answer it we'll answer everything but we uh may save the questions that aren't
00:13:52.060specifically lore based or about the lore that we're talking about until i don't know until we
00:13:58.460take a break or until we're done with the lore we're going to cover for the night so
00:18:13.460It's going to get really, really interesting. This is one of those poems that really does not follow the formats of the other poems or the encyclopedic poems.
00:18:30.140This is going to really, really work on our movie here. Let me see.
00:19:08.920Yeah. So, um, yeah, cause I have my, uh, my team's, um, uh, chat in the background going off and apparently it's decided to ping every time, uh, someone makes a comment. So that is going to be interesting. Even though the window's not up, um, it's just notifying me and letting me know.
00:19:29.540seriously i see you over in the chat just throwing this out there before we get going you should
00:19:35.860absolutely come to sigra blood at sigraheim i would love to see you there i'd love to see you
00:19:41.740and your family there if you can it's fantastic it's a really cool spot we'd love to have you
00:19:46.560there so if you can do it you should absolutely make that happen anyway back to our program
00:19:51.980Svon, first and foremost, Haurbarth's Leodh, what does that mean?
00:20:00.240Okay, it is the song, Leodh is a song or a recitation, reciting of, or the story of Haurbarth.
00:20:13.340Haur Barth is the long beard or high beard or one of high station beard.
00:20:26.300It is, in essence, much as Lord Odin is referred to as Haur, the high one, Haurbarth is the high beard or the wise beard, the one that has been around for a long time.
00:20:44.340and uh oftentimes it's called the the gray beard uh the story of gray beard or the story of the
00:20:52.900ferryman and thor you might see that again like with uh like oftentimes with uh thor and giant
00:20:59.060land and so on and so forth the the common um name being uh you know uh thor and the gray beard
00:21:09.460or the ferryman um this is an interesting one for a couple of reasons one it really emphasizes some
00:21:18.340uh of the nordic branch having uh its own um connections to pan-arianism that are sometimes
00:21:28.260very very clear um the other is is that it kind of shows some connections to elsewhere specifically
00:21:40.740in the european proper so i just to kind of back it up one of the things that is really important
00:21:46.820for the audience to to remember when we talk about and we have talked about the tripartite
00:21:52.180And we talk about the dominions or the thrones of the tripartite and how, say, the Nordic branch saw the dynamic throne as the most important.
00:22:06.880and there Lord Odin sits, the catalystic throne.
00:22:12.460And of course, they're oftentimes pan-Aryan European.
00:22:18.080The striker often always is in the catalystic throne,
00:22:24.320except when we get to like the Romans and the Greeks.
00:22:31.120And in this case, we see something between
00:22:35.280what would ultimately be the dynamic throne and the catalystic throne. And that's what we're
00:22:41.520looking at here with Odin in disguise and Thor coming to cross a river. Now, I've heard some
00:22:52.580crazy hypothesis coming out of people recently saying that, no, this isn't Odin, this is Loki.
00:23:00.500And I think these hypotheses are kind of pushed by some scholastic people of the late 1800s and early 1900s. And I think they're really trying to shoot in the dark at this.
00:23:18.320And I think it's one of the most preposterous theories because if, and this is just something I would recommend everybody write down to take a look at, is one of the major things, this poem reflects a similar story in one of our Aryan cousins myth cycle.
00:23:36.480And it is specifically the Slobs. In Rodonovary, there is a huge battle or adversarial struggle between Perun, the striker, and Veles, the lord of magic, death, and he has the ability to turn himself into a serpent and all of those things.
00:23:59.640So I believe that much like the Nordic stories like the Volsunga sagas that reflect happenings in Germany and having characters like Attlee, who is Attila, the stories are not only encapsulated in the Nordic realm.
00:24:22.220They clearly have many connections to the mainland. And I think that this story in particular mirrors the Slavic struggle between the striker and the dynamic of the Slavs that I would argue that this seems to be a story that has come up the Volga River, Baltic side.
00:24:47.140And by the time it was recorded in the late 12th century, 13th century, it's reflective of that.
00:24:57.960And it's also really worth remembering that in all Aryan branches, the struggle of the catalystic throne, Thor, Perun, Tyrannus of the Gauls, or Hercules in that form,
00:25:18.400um about the the the concept of dealing with the dynamic throne the concept of dealing with
00:25:25.840um going into the underworld or actually the lack thereof um the catalystic uh throne
00:25:34.540always in it doesn't matter what branch seems to not tread into the underworld which is another
00:25:42.260reason why I kind of took a gripe against some folks suggesting that all the gods, like, go down
00:25:50.060into the underworld, because one of the big ones is that the Lord of heaven and earth, the striker,
00:25:57.220you know, it's, he doesn't de-sanctify himself by stepping into the place that has no order,
00:26:03.780that has no time, and that's pretty prevalent throughout all of the, unless he changes his
00:26:10.340form. The Slavs do have a story where he goes into the underworld in the form of a baby,
00:26:15.660but that's technically not him in a sense. And that the earth or the, say the under earth,
00:26:23.880the place away from time could draw away the power of the catalystic throne. So that's kind
00:26:32.220of what's playing here is we, I think that this is a reflection of that story that has influenced
00:26:39.640and come up into the nordic and um you can kind of see a lot of that um in the stories i've often
00:26:47.480wondered about like how much gaulish or celtic stuff has influenced or come up as well um i know
00:26:54.120you see it more in the sagas than you do say in the adas but um you know look looking into some
00:27:00.680of that as well um this is about thor coming from the eastern lands and he's making his way over a
00:27:10.200river um oh that actually uh there's a story in the slavic where uh perun comes to a river he ends up
00:27:19.640splitting the river um on his own accord but again the catalystic lord coming to liminal spaces
00:27:27.480uh coming over water coming over rivers and passing through rivers is a common aryan mythos
00:27:36.380um kind of challenge or or story set that happens um in all the branches of the europeans especially
00:27:46.300um so in this case thor is coming to a river and he's transferring in between two worlds and there
00:27:54.020is a ferryman there and the ferryman, uh, is belligerent to him. He, he ends up, um, kind of
00:28:01.160trying to command the ferryman to come over and the ferryman refuses. And then there is an exchange
00:28:06.440of insults. That's another thing worth noting is that, um, as opposed to say, describing some sort
00:28:14.560of, you know, power transfer or a kind of, again, a fight or, um, an adversarial challenging,
00:28:21.360This one is done in the quintessential Nordic style. One of the biggest forms of fighting back then was, of course, in poetic slurs or poetic insults at each other, and those that could tell or look back on past grievances and be able to convincingly lay them out.
00:28:50.140We see a little bit of this in Beowulf with, I believe, Wundferth, and we also see it again in Lokasana and also in the sagas in which scalds or bards would trade these kind of poetic jabs at each other.
00:29:15.440And that is 100% what's going on here. It's appealing to the popularity of what was going on at the time, as far as your audience getting into it. This was because the audience was very much into watching Scalds trade these barbs. So that's really what this story is reflecting.
00:29:39.400it's important um it would be really cool if gothar from i don't know 200 300 years prior
00:29:55.400had written all these things down as instructional religious texts
00:36:00.220I will feed thee, therefore, in the morning.
00:36:03.020A basket I have on my back, and food therein none better. At leisure I ate, ere the house I left, of herring and porridge, so plenty I have.
00:36:17.940So, a couple of things with this one is, this is not the only story of Lord Thor carrying a basket on his back.
00:36:30.600If anybody is familiar with Lord of the Rings, the Elf Lord Aranduil comes from the Nordic story of Thor carrying Arvindal on his back.
00:41:06.500And the reason why, I mean, you might think,
00:41:08.600you know, why would he be insulted by that?
00:41:11.720It's because the dynamic of our ancestor society
00:41:16.600was built around the idea that there are those who produce
00:41:19.200and there are those who are willing to fight and die.
00:41:22.660for the producers and to protect and expand and grow stronger and so that's where the the the
00:41:31.480source of the the barb is is that oh you're not you're not um a warrior you're you're just a
00:41:38.380simple farmer and so i think it's a class idea that some people have tried to interject in this
00:41:43.420story is a little or greatly misplaced i would say
00:41:47.400So in seven, Thor speaks out. He says, steer thou hither the boat and landing here shall I show thee, but who's the craft that thou keepest on the shore?
00:42:08.300Oh, sorry. I wanted to address the hose comment from the earlier verse. It is worth remembering, too, a common way in which menfolk then, they would wear like woolen pants and socks that were attached together.
00:42:27.900And they were often, in the Nordic style, were very, very tight, as opposed to, say, like the Moscow Easterner Northmen that wore oftentimes very large pants, kind of because of their influence with the Middle East.
00:42:46.480um so the even to the point where they're actually still common in iceland to wear um
00:42:54.520these woolen undergarments um because of the the rain and the snow and uh there's many stories of
00:43:02.400sailors like dropping out of their boats and the only reason why they were saved was because of
00:43:06.820these kind of woolen um I guess like hose uh I don't they're not pantyhose they're woolen
00:43:17.020um if you're not into wool they're very very itchy but um the long johns the long johns perfect
00:43:23.200yeah so these yeah um and he's saying you know you don't even have your basic level of clothing
00:43:29.920Um, you know, you, you, you wear, you wear clothes like a beggar and you, you know, um, you don't even have, uh, you know, three good dwellings.
00:43:42.040That part there is interesting because I think it refers predominantly to the common farm household of the central house or hall and the oftentimes the either the slave quarters or a like for the thralls or secondary usage house like for blacksmithing.
00:44:07.920And then the third was oftentimes, you know, foodstuffs or where the, you know, water was kept and things like that. So the exact meaning as to why he said three good dwellings, methinks has not, does not denote that he fully has revealed that he knows he's talking to Lord Thor.
00:44:30.720it's not specifically speaking of um halls that you don't you don't need to have a
00:44:38.080a basic farmhouse with the with the the halls that it needs in order to function
00:44:45.680um the ferryman speaks in eight he says
00:44:49.200Hildolf is he who bade me have it. A hero wise, his home is at the Rathsi sound.
00:45:04.080And it's translated in Old Norse as Rathsi yar sundi, the sound of Rathsi. He bade me
00:45:11.760no robbers to steer and no stealers of steeds but only worthy men and those whom well do i know
00:45:21.080say now thy name if over the sound that will fare so
00:45:28.280i mean it's it's interesting this gives kind of a sense of location um
00:45:36.100who is Wraithsea, it's not really known. It's simply just stated. And again, this is giving
00:45:47.340context to the idea that the ferryman is in the service of someone nearby or that owns the land
00:45:58.020around it. And that, you know, I'm not supposed to give anybody, just anybody a ride. So you can't
00:46:03.040just call me over. And in nine, Thor speaks. Oh, my name indeed shall I tell, though in danger I am
00:46:16.940and all my race. I am Odin's son, Miley's brother and Magni's father, the strong one of the gods
00:46:52.840of the jotuns that that are seeking to besiege heaven and he is um talking about his stock he's
00:47:04.260talking about his people um they're under and i think that this is one of those big
00:47:09.640contentious points where uh people have a tendency to view jotuns as being
00:47:15.060of like of a different race um even though lord odin's um mother and uncle um are prim thurser of
00:47:24.380of uh of niflheim um it's because of the usage of this word that he he says of his of his race
00:47:36.020Um, but it is of his people, um, that are in danger and he is, uh, Odin's son and Miley's brother. Now, Miley is an interesting one. There is some confusion about, uh, Miley and his, uh, his divine stature or whether or not he is divine.
00:47:59.580um uh some folks believe that they're and it's kind of alluded to that maile may have been an
00:48:09.500ascended um uh human and he is not mentioned in the list of the
00:48:15.420icier um at all and he has very little mentioning outside of this um
00:48:21.660as being the son of Lord Odin. And it doesn't really expound too much upon this.
00:48:36.560And it kind of lends, I think, to many of the sons of Odin possibly being in the descendencies
00:48:46.360of kings and i don't know if the significance of miley in relation to the fact that there might
00:48:52.280have been um someone by that name who had claimed ascendant or descendancy from lord odin um and
00:48:59.640that's another interesting one definitely if you're if you're writing notes down you know put a
00:49:03.400question mark next to that take a look into that because that's a very interesting um little uh
00:49:09.960segue to go off i want to kind of add something a little bit to the the concept of race to our
00:49:15.880ancestors um as as our understanding of the world evolved as people those terms kind of broadened a
00:49:33.800bit um whereas today when we think of the term race it's very large subsections of humanity
00:49:45.560that share a common origin a common yeah common race and without without that's become what the
00:49:53.800default is what we tend to think of other subsects within a race we think of as ethnicities um
00:50:03.560oftentimes archaically europeans i think how to put this that's
00:50:15.560they are they saw themselves as a very distinct thing and other what we would call different
00:50:23.780races of people were very very different if they even knew of their existence so when they talked
00:50:30.600about amongst the races of what they understood to be men they meant like different ethnicities
00:50:37.380of europeans so very often you know they would talk about the saxon race or the uh you know
00:50:44.020the the norse race or the the the german race or the you know the the gaulish race and
00:50:53.840keeping that in mind that wasn't uncommon to you know take a a bride from one of these other
00:51:01.820ethnicities and that be a thing much like our gods and the jotuns have obviously a very common
00:51:08.060source they're the same of the same kind of substance they're even you know evolved from
00:51:13.900the same ancestors but they are different groupings of the same what we would call race
00:51:22.220but kind of to a degree different ethnicities in the sense that they're different categories of
00:51:28.460being but they share that same common root that that bonds them together they're from the same
00:51:34.780source as i mentioned the gods are you know descended from jodnar just like the
00:51:43.340you know same jodnar that thor goes to the east of battle
00:51:50.060yeah the um the usage of the word too is very interesting
00:51:53.660the word edlis is what is mentioned in stanza nine on the second um on the second row thought
00:52:01.820even though I'm in danger, I'm in danger or I'm threatened,
00:52:09.620as well as the people who I am naturally connected to.
00:52:18.460And that would imply, again, through marriage and through bonding.
00:52:24.200Some of the interesting thing, the word edlis can be used in many different ways,
00:52:29.900but uh it means by that of nature or that which is the correct and moral way of nature so for
00:52:36.540someone to be um say against nature um let me see they would have uh uh let me see the endless
00:52:52.540endless law or the the laws of nature and then there was um or the natural condition
00:52:59.420or quality about which things come about the the native intelligence or um uh but there is an
00:53:09.340i just had it here um and it means like ed lee and ed list is that of the nature of the thing
00:53:19.980so men folk tribe folk are producers of children and that's what he's referencing to so i am a
00:53:27.660natural product of my people i am a it would be the kind of the equivalency of what he's saying
00:53:33.420um i am i am the production of what is normal amongst my folk which is to have children
00:53:39.660and it's um you could also see it like in the usage of like um
00:53:44.220uh the eagle's nature or the wolf's nature or the serpent's nature or or um the bull's nature
00:53:55.920whatever it might be that's the usage of the word and i just saw here um
00:54:00.220oh okay i see it's it wasn't the actual so it's it's not only you uh that which is against nature
00:54:10.980and the origin or extraction from the normal and again too it's worth remembering that
00:54:16.820the referencing of that which happens as nature is not that nature is completely open
00:54:25.060and just subjective but that humans have a nature wolves have a nature and what the biggest
00:54:32.660difference is again humans have morals you know we know that animals uh you know sometimes eat
00:54:37.620their young or or um will even you know mate with their children simply because of like hormonal
00:54:44.260sense we as humans know that's wrong so just because you know incest and uh emphasize you know
00:54:51.300happens in nature doesn't mean that we should do it because it is not within our nature so and
00:54:57.940that's important to note um you know svan has said nature in abundance of times to describe this
00:55:05.140rightly so when you look at the root of nature it is the same root as nation
00:55:12.500it is a people sharing a common origin and a common
00:55:24.180a common or law as it were of what you know what defines their type and and i think that's one of
00:55:34.260those things here and you also see that in even smaller groups where people are representing a
00:55:38.420family or a clan like no that's not what my people do like we're you know of this kind of nature they
00:55:45.540have individual characteristics that define them as a group and as a people but that's kind of a
00:55:52.420side thing but it is relevant to so much of our lore and so much what we talk about and it's
00:55:58.740it's important to note that the terms of groupings the world was much smaller and it
00:56:10.100when they talk about distinctions they're talking about distinctions amongst white folks most often
00:56:15.300there's very few references to people outside of that because there simply wasn't contact with
00:56:20.500those people they weren't part of their world and their experience almost at all i think in
00:56:26.260all of our lore that i'm aware there's very little reference to that other than
00:56:31.460scraylings being you know the inhabitants they found in north america um talk to that the the
00:56:40.260sami as well well and also blau mother uh blau mother is blue men and that's because there was
00:56:48.980no like particular word for black it was just various shades of blue and so blau mother were
00:56:57.620a reference to the people uh that were living in the sub-saharan but um many of them had come up
00:57:05.540and because the the trade routes and um a lot of the the islamic world had already built slave routes
00:57:12.660coming from those areas and bringing them up and over the saharan desert by the time the
00:57:17.780the norsemen were there and they referred to these sub-saharan africans as blau mother
00:57:23.780that's the thing when they're talking about you know these big differences in groupings of people
00:57:29.620it's what today we consider very very small differences because the bigger differences we
00:57:36.420know today is different races of people were like a whole different order of thing than what they
00:57:42.100were used to and there was a much greater foreignness to that so it's kind of
00:57:52.100you have to relate the terminology to what their world experience was not to
00:57:59.380the diversity that we experience in 2024 and the one of the roots too of the word the the um the
00:58:07.300word ethelis also has um similarities to othal so like ancestral land or the the nature of the land
00:58:16.660around the folk um this of course is more speaking about the action of um building up through um
00:58:27.700marriage and and and uh having children so i you know he is he is making it basically he's making
00:58:36.260a nod towards the fact that the people he is talking about are the Aesir. Again, another kind
00:58:44.120of funny little point to make, like he's kind of speaking about it mundanely. But then he says,
00:58:51.000you know, I am this, I am Odin's son, I'm Miley's brother, and I am Magni's father.
00:58:57.360And that pretty much clears it. And he says, you know, the strong one of the gods, the mightiest
00:59:33.260up the, um, the, uh, dichotomy between the two. And again, how barred in relation to gray beard or
00:59:46.020high beard. And again, high meaning like how we would use the word wise or wizened. Let's say
00:59:53.380wizened. Um, if people are confused as to how that could be, um, if we were to say, you know,
00:59:58.360he's a wizened old man um he's both wise and gray or he is those are all kind of synonymous
01:00:06.340with he with each other so he is um high or or uh long in age if you will he has much experience
01:00:15.740um so in we're in uh number 11 thor speaks why should thou hide thy name if quarrel that thou
01:00:32.920hast not that's pretty straightforward why you know why would you hide your name if we didn't
01:00:39.240have any grievances against each other. Well, they're coming. Hardbarth speaks in 12. He says,
01:00:49.840And thou I had a quarrel from such as thou art, yet nonetheless my life would I guard unless I be
01:00:58.760doomed to die. So, um, I have a quarrel with you for who you are, but I would not guard it either
01:01:11.060way because I am, I'm aware of the day I die or I am, I am unmoved from the day I die. So I have
01:01:19.600no fear despite knowing exactly who you are and i do have coral with you um
01:01:26.160thor speaks in 13 he says great trouble me thinks would it be to come to the wet my middle
01:01:34.420weakling well shall i pay thy mocking words if across the sound i come so now he's like you know
01:01:43.080I should just wade over there and, and turn your head reminiscent into the boat you're standing in. Um, uh, but it's, it's, it's a great amount of trouble for someone who's just throwing words. Um, but if I do, you're going to regret it.
01:02:02.000Harbarth speaks. 14. Here shall I stand and await thee here. Thou hast found since Hrungnir died, no fiercer man. Of course, this is making reference to another story of Thor.
01:02:20.000Um, the, uh, um, the giant who, you know, wagered his horse, um, as swifter than, than Lord Odin's.
01:02:31.580Um, and then in the race, he, you know, he managed to go into, um, Ausgarth and he was Lord there, uh, unrealizing by Lord Odin.
01:02:44.040and there he is dispatched by um uh lord thor um after he gets drunk in the hall and um
01:02:54.600you know gets himself into a duel with lord thor so this is just a plug towards another poem
01:03:01.160and he says you know you have yeah you have not seen a fiercer man um since you fought that
01:03:09.400Jotun, Hrongnir. And so he's kind of also letting Thor know that he knows about his past.
01:03:19.640So he is familiar with him very much so.
01:03:27.400Fain art thou to tell how with Hrongnir I fought the haughty giant whose head of stone was made,
01:03:34.500And yet I felled him and stretched him before me. What, Harbarth, did thou do while?
01:03:42.980So, you know, it's interesting that you know about my fight between that haughty giant, which I cleaved his head and dropped him like a sack of potatoes in front of me.
01:03:55.480What were you doing while I was doing that?
01:03:57.420um and this isn't really really kind of does set the tone and pace of like what were you doing
01:04:04.960while i was doing this so my great deed is this what were you doing and then it's it slowly turns
01:04:12.260into i heard you were doing that but i also heard it was more like this or that and then it starts
01:04:18.680to get kind of venomous and uh it's it's quite it's quite funny um and that's the way this poem
01:04:24.600is supposed to be seen it's it's funny it's um it's very similar to uh the storm father being
01:04:33.640forced to dress up like uh the holy freya that was seen as a funny sense because one it was going to
01:04:42.040build up the tension of the the murder at the wedding feast because he was he's you know having
01:04:48.520to um hide and do subterfuge and cunning which is clearly not lord thor's um mode of working and so
01:05:00.040it was also again you know in our faith i think that we have great piety we have great belief in
01:05:08.760our gods especially as we see them as the great divine beings that they are but at the same time
01:05:15.560to our ancestors and the stories of the gods are at this time frame holding more of that comedic
01:05:25.400action um i don't know if it was perhaps always that way and i i can't speak on that but
01:05:31.560clearly by you know in in iceland by this time it was the the ability to joke or to kind of um present
01:05:41.880um the gods as being you know warriors that would be just as easily angered if they were put into
01:05:49.880that situation um is uh it's kind of already being kind of set and uh you know we often say
01:05:57.720that you know that the gods have a sense of humor it's we're not um you know gray-faced doldrumed
01:06:07.000um you know people we want to live we want to have fun and our gods reflect that but this is
01:06:14.140kind of that that reflection of the time as well that the humor of it um and clearly again you know
01:06:21.940being forced to um uh you know shift gender roles and um or uh dealing with certain things like that
01:06:33.980outside of your nature uh is kind of part of the pun as it is you know uh reflective on the warriors
01:06:43.980being of the of the age would be extremely upset by this so now lord thor and then he completely
01:06:52.700comes out of that and destroys the wedding party or so on and so forth so that's kind of what's
01:06:57.260going on here and you'll see a lot of this and you'll see a lot of
01:07:00.460the norms of what was seen as masculine and what and that there was a very clear distinction
01:07:06.860amongst our ancestors we know this from all the way back even to the germanic times so people
01:07:12.300that try to again spread the lie or the story that there is just kind of this ambiguity between
01:07:18.220gender roles and um and the the and our ancestors is completely telling you a lie
01:07:25.180and you could see it clear as day by reading any of these stories so
01:12:37.520What did you do while I was doing that?
01:12:39.020So, again, the meaning behind for ropes of sand they would seek to wind and the bottom to dig from the deepest dale is speculative about exactly their meanings in that.
01:12:59.480I think this is probably the most correct speculation, is that these might be references or alluding to coitus, and that they may be kind of jokes about that, but it's not 100% known.
01:13:20.280um but another word usage of the word wise if they were wise wise were the women we had
01:13:29.220if they kind for or were kind for us or wise for us again the word is like wanting or to have
01:13:36.580inclination towards us if they were having you know uh the mental inclination towards us then
01:13:44.000they were frolicky they were lovely they were wild and they were they were uh fine um
01:13:53.520um a couple of questions that kind of are relevant to what we're talking about um chris just asked
01:13:59.120seven mothers of heimdall like the seven seas so heimdall had nine mothers yes um but i mean there
01:14:08.320may be something similar at play with you know multiples of what would seem to be you know in
01:14:14.560a natural state a singular person there may be some some commonality to kind of the point being
01:14:22.800made but um that number doesn't quite match it but that and so i won't lie first i know the number
01:14:31.920was different but that was the first thing that came to mind you know upon hearing it again was
01:14:36.880that's the point of commonality um so i don't think you're wrong to to catch on that um when
01:14:44.320we were talking about races a few minutes ago that raised a bunch of questions and i think it's worth
01:14:52.160i don't know worth hitting them now because we're on the subject of this and you may be more
01:15:00.240adept at this being a son of iceland than i am um so i kind of mentioned that you know
01:15:07.280they encountered some other races like the sammy and people are like whoa hey now what about sammy
01:15:12.560um i don't know that in my life i have met a person of sammy descent so i can't claim to
01:15:19.520be an expert upon the sammy uh finn right that's aren't sammy people white most of them you couldn't
01:15:26.160tell them apart from other nordic people uh without their sammy clothing 100 so
01:15:35.600i'm gonna throw a flag on the hundred percent because i see different pictures of sammy people
01:15:40.000look real different well and so then what i defend my position after no no
01:15:50.400so it's a similar what i wonder and i don't know because again i have not had a lot of encounter i
01:15:55.520to see pictures there's some sammy with a lot of asian features there's some sammy with a lot
01:16:02.480of looking like inuits um i don't know that that is a sammy trait or just sammy folks that have
01:16:10.400happened to make those mating choices um you will notice when you look if you look at 2024 native
01:16:22.640americans you see a lot of white dudes with blonde hair and blue eyes but they got their hair in
01:16:30.480braids and they call themselves you know leaping fox or whatever um so i don't know if there's a
01:16:42.080similar phenomenon amongst those people i'm not really sure how to thresh that out i don't want
01:16:46.480to speak out of my expertise on it well one thing that i i wanted to bring up is there's
01:16:53.520part accusative um the slavs have long been accused of being marred or
01:17:01.680influxed with mongolian blood or asiatic blood but when we do see a lot of slavs they absolutely
01:17:08.960fit the focus bill um and i think that's very much the same case with the uh sami people
01:17:15.600especially with the nordic and there's also something worth noting is that the finnoergic
01:17:20.480people of finland um and even now finland is is very much you know intermixed with uh germanic
01:17:27.920blood and they certainly have finnoergic uh you know outlining features um there's even a story
01:17:35.200of the great wizard vanamonen who gets into a a speech battle though it's it's kind of
01:17:42.320wrote as being songs that vanna monon and i the the other give me one second uh yo
01:17:51.760i think his name was johannan or yo yo yo yoni heinen it started with a j for sure um they they
01:18:01.120get into this battle and it's mentioned that yoni heinen is a sammy and venom venom venom
01:18:07.920is uh a finlander and they were seeing those names up what's that i think you just made those names
01:18:15.200up they sound so no no no no no i uh no i'm just playing but i have yeah i think finn race can
01:18:21.280help me with that so far outside the norm well and vanna vanna venomonin is i i definitely believe
01:18:29.760100 whenever you see um like the outlier um groups that are heavily um let's say that like
01:18:40.960with the phenoergics or with the etruscans or with the um the uh greek influenced by the phoenicians
01:18:51.200um and you see this kind of admixture of foreign folk kind of coming in they're always influenced
01:18:57.360by i mean like i would argue that the etruscans even though they their origins or at least their
01:19:02.880language origins certainly aren't um indo-european as you know i recently came to know like i didn't
01:19:10.000know that i had always seen that because of their religious reflections reflected
01:19:14.720their the the indo-european or arian folk that were on the peninsula and they had picked up so
01:19:20.960much of that stuff it's the same time to bring this up too there is
01:19:31.280there are kind of two groups of white people as it were there are the migratory indo-europeans
01:19:42.160and there are the you know i think what are sometimes called old europeans
01:19:48.000or there's you know these various isolated groups in europe that weren't part of that
01:19:53.840migratory movement of the the arian migration but are still our folk and they were from a
01:20:03.440previous time before so our folk moved in waves with their migrations and so the group that
01:20:13.680migrated into um into asia into india and persia and that way and then came back across through
01:20:21.920europe there was root populations still in europe that was isolated that was not part of this big
01:20:28.080migration of peoples so it's like sometimes our folk split travel a great distance and then come
01:20:35.920back and reintegrate with people that they may not have been connected with for hundreds of years
01:20:40.960sometimes i think some of that's in play here so spawn dropped out um either that or i'm here
01:20:48.080talking to myself um and he is going to know a little bit more about sammy folks than i am but
01:20:56.320it leads to the next it leads to the next thing and when one of the the ways of identifying stuff
01:21:04.240is through linguistics as i mentioned previously you don't have the same language origins because
01:21:10.880because the groups diverged well before then
01:21:15.980in the case of old Europeans versus Aryans
01:21:19.560from the migration, from the Aryan migrations.
01:21:37.260that may not know a little bit about it.
01:21:39.780think it's very important for a lot of us yeah i mean and i know that some people try to say that
01:21:44.820like laplander is not a good usage and and and what have you but i mean to be respectful to the
01:21:52.180calling them by the name that they call themselves i you know um the the sami folk are you know north
01:22:00.820in in northern norway and sweden and um there was references especially in the in the sagas
01:22:09.140about the difference between um the sami and the fins and that may have been more prevalent but
01:22:16.660we see this a lot um the the say as the the influence of aryan uh culture and aryan spirituality
01:22:27.540starts to influx with or is even met with outsiders there's this kind of gray zone that
01:22:35.220always pops up one of the perfect examples that i like to bring up is about hercules hercules of
01:22:41.300course is uh the striker um but he takes in a you know a mortal or daemon form and um i think that
01:22:49.060this has a lot to do with spreading that power and the dominion of the striker uh with influence from
01:22:57.540the east um if anybody's familiar with you know hercules and um even the buddhist traditions um
01:23:05.220There's also, again, like the Etruscans, and they had a tripartite, even though their language isn't from that. They clearly were influenced by the ideas of this.
01:23:18.920The Gallic people, too, have oftentimes hemorrhaged the tripartite. Or the gods themselves often show up, even in human form.
01:23:29.900And one of the big ones that I would argue too is not only is Thor one of the Finnish gods, but they also have Vanamonen. And I feel that he is very much the dynamic lord of their kind of, as they are influenced or even genetically moving in as Arians moved into the Finnoergic population and mixed with them, they brought with them the spiritual might that they had.
01:23:55.860And it started to show in different ways.
01:23:59.620And, you know, if you see Van Ammonen as he's mortal, but a great wizard, and you see Lord Odin.
01:24:08.740And I think that's kind of lent to people trying to say that Lord Odin was once a mortal and so on and so forth.
01:24:14.220There's crazy theories on that, but that's clearly the dynamic throne presenting itself in mythos, whether or not the origin is, you know, strictly divine or...
01:24:25.860um you hemorrhize for different reasons like the the celts the gallic people in ireland
01:24:33.120you're hemorrhizing their gods into tribal churches the the follow-up question which is
01:24:39.600you know certainly logically consistent if a sammy person wanted to join the afa would they be allowed
01:24:45.460to and i think that when in doubt the default position always has been are they us or not us
01:24:54.420And realistically, you don't need skull calipers and textbooks and mitochondrial DNA studies.
01:25:04.640You can tell whether they're us or not.
01:25:17.880and you know we talked about natural it's most natural way of knowing you can kind of tell what's
01:25:25.280what's ours and what's not um and i think that's our good real rule of thumb across lots of things
01:25:34.460you find strange pockets of people that have preserved a particular dna and have only
01:25:43.460interbred with that same group of people in odd spots. You find those kind of things in different
01:25:50.680places. We're going to get to kind of an interesting question about that when we get to some of our
01:25:54.840lore here at some point, but I'll leave that for a different time. But yeah, that's kind of a...
01:26:03.120And again, I've not claimed to be an expert on SAMe, but you can look at some of them until
01:26:07.620something's a little different, and you can look at quite a bit of them and say,
01:26:11.780ah they wear different clothes because they're you know old europe and not the incoming
01:26:19.380what became the scandinavian peoples um also while we're on that discussion
01:26:26.180uh morris taylor asks and he's contributing a lot in the chat which is cool i appreciate welcome
01:26:32.420um didn't the sutier mean soot people who were to the south where the fire god surter lived
01:26:41.780They would have been black people. I don't know, I've never heard that term before. Svan, are you aware of a time that that occurs in our lore?
01:26:54.780Well, I know that in relation to Surtr, the Jotuns of primordial age were always kind of referred to as the sons of Musbelly.
01:27:07.780Um, and so, uh, you know, I never heard soot. I know. And that's the thing is soot oftentimes
01:27:18.300was more in the form of swarthy. If something was swarthy, it was sooty. It was, um, blackened
01:27:27.180by ash and it wasn't always referred to as the totality. The only one I'm familiar with
01:27:34.380was was blauman but i mean and so it so didn't necessarily mean negro in origin it very often
01:27:44.540meant poor or you were the person who would tend the fire or carry the coals or be the chimney
01:27:50.860sweep or be the dude that's dirty because you're in the lower you know working class working the
01:27:57.020jobs that upper people didn't you know the the thing that comes to mind when you mention that
01:28:02.060is as far to pete in uh entertains me to no end um
01:28:13.580my close associates will see many many depictions of him around yule um but yeah as a fun like
01:28:22.540helper to uh saint nicholas and the the dutch yule traditions so i'm not sure that that's a thing i
01:28:31.100I don't think Svan or I have encountered it, that maybe, again, I'm not sure where the
01:28:37.600reference comes from, and the other thing that's also relevant to what we're talking
01:28:43.940about in this part of the story, I don't mean to deviate so far from the text, I know it's
01:28:48.580kind of hard to keep the flow when we do, Fenwraith also asks, could the story of how
01:28:55.340Thor having to dress like a woman be an example of how ridiculous all this modern stuff
01:29:01.060like transgenderism is and how this other stuff like gender cross-dressing it's fine what you
01:29:06.700thought what what do you have to say well yeah absolutely um the first warning sign of loki
01:29:13.000being an outsider is his ability to change shape and change gender and the abnormality of that
01:29:20.360which is when we saw it originally alluded to it was with emir and the central jotuns
01:29:27.940and how that was seen as very abominable that you know the many heads many arms just terrible
01:29:36.040but as it's been refined it becomes more deceptive and that's what makes loki like it's a warning
01:29:43.980and then it goes again um with lord thor in the story having to one it's pretend to not be or to
01:29:53.700pretend to be anything because Lord Thor doesn't pretend to be anyone and he is Thor and he has no
01:29:59.100reason to hide and he even makes mention of it in this story here and no reason to hide um so there's
01:30:04.980the cravenness part there and then on top of that it's the switching gender roles um on top of being
01:30:14.160cunning that that adds insult to the injury of it um and you know again I think it also it plays to
01:30:22.500point to remember the biggest kind of caveat of that situation was to kind of cinch loki into
01:30:30.900this situation because lord heimdall says i've got an idea let's you know douse you in fabric
01:30:38.340and no bride is without his bridesmaid and so he he ends up getting loki um kind of involved in
01:30:46.340that and the the rivalry the polarization between loki and heimdall is is consistent and not talked
01:30:53.540about often enough but so this is something that i think and and this comes up in 2024
01:31:04.900i don't really think it would have come up at earlier times um
01:31:09.860people of divergent lifestyle like to find any any point of contact with traditional culture
01:31:26.180and like stake a claim like aha they mentioned this thing so it must have been cool or whatever
01:31:32.600that's not the case lots of things are mentioned because they're bad lots of things are mentioned
01:35:19.760the gods are right everything else we do ought to be to better understand them
01:35:30.140not to force them to conform to some theory that we cooked up
01:35:34.980when we address social issues or political issues
01:35:42.720our gods and our faith should inform our social and political decisions not the other way around
01:35:53.240it's grossly impious to thrust our policy our politics or our you know whatever our situation
01:36:01.700is to then somehow project that upon our gods is
01:36:06.280i think when we look at it that way it's very obviously that that's the wrong thing to do but
01:36:15.040i think sometimes we we don't stop to consider things before we do it and when you're in the
01:36:22.300heat of the moment or you feel passionately about something it's easy to project your ideas
01:36:28.160onto the gods is that they're accountable for your politics and that's not right
01:36:33.020I think we all get that. But yeah, Finn, this is exactly the point of it is it's ridiculous. And the point of it is, you know, if that's a thing, that's something that you poke fun and you laugh at.
01:36:47.840And I say that, you know, a generation previous, if you dressed up like, you know, a famous person who was a woman or just a woman in general for Halloween, that was funny in a funny, like, a funny costume choice.
01:37:04.760Now, the current mental illness that we that we see around us has made that much less funny, unfortunately.
01:37:12.900um yeah but i just i'm sorry for if that takes out of the flow of the poem it's a short one
01:37:21.360and i think that these questions you know do relate to the text and relate to the story so
01:37:26.480i think they're they're good and i appreciate y'all asking well and i wanted to bring up
01:37:30.620something too um when we talk about the the russians uh or the the fins that may have like
01:37:38.620kind of the Asiatic and, and eyes and so on and so forth. Um, I do see like there, there is a sense
01:37:47.080of like that, which is of the folk is perhaps of the Germanic or Teutonic folk. And I think that
01:37:54.920it's worth remembering too. Like if we look at say the Gales, whether they are the Irish, whether
01:38:00.200they are the welsh or the scots um or if we look at the uh you know the the northern hispanics
01:38:08.600and uh the northern italians you know these these outlier regions like you know it's common
01:38:14.760to think of like oh in northern italy you'll see a lot of folk italians you go further south
01:38:20.120it starts to get like you see differences or variations it's the same in russia with the east
01:38:27.560it's the same in the slavic countries or the east and i see our enemies when we try to
01:38:34.360um lay out a clear and concise and logical view of of uh ethnicity and race they immediately try
01:38:42.520to drive that well you know like in germany the slavs were seen as this or you know they kind of
01:38:47.560they immediately try to create this divisive sense and the the big thing is is the origin of your
01:38:54.600where your people come from also the language and how much again like you had said how much
01:39:02.600do they look like us how much do they think like us and and when other folks see them do they see
01:39:10.920a brother or do they see a foreigner or an outsider and that's those are big ones
01:45:11.800So one more diversion before we get back on it.
01:45:14.340I mentioned rap battles earlier with the little flighting that's going on here.
01:45:20.280If and when we get to the sagas, especially A.O. Scalagromson's saga.
01:45:28.900he would have a habit of just spontaneously composing a verse about he would do random
01:45:36.740actions in the poem and then it says and then ale spake a verse and just bust a rhyme on somebody
01:45:44.500he's dropping bars on on one occasion he vomited in a man's face and then he spake a verse so
01:45:56.080oh yes that's when he was poisoned he had the the horn where he uh carved the
01:46:03.840rune and broke the horn because it was poisoned
01:46:08.640go on strange journeys here on victory never sleeps i appreciate you joining us on those
01:46:16.480it's fun before i go completely off track here take us take us back to the lay of harbarth
01:46:23.840So we're on 19 now, and this is another point in which I like to kind of turn people's minds towards.
01:46:36.520This is one example of it in which for people that try to turn Snorri Stutlason and the scribing of the stories as to be like a divine book, like a Bible or what have you.
01:46:53.840there are a lot of glaring um incidences where things are clearly crossed over and
01:47:00.640are kind of misspoken and this actual stanza is one of them um so harbarth asks you know
01:47:11.840while i was sleeping on this island fighting and and um wooing the maidens what were you doing
01:51:45.400so i have taken us on a on a winding journey this evening but i'll continue to do so on points i
01:51:56.920think or you know here's the thing sometimes things are funny but i don't do things on here just to be
01:52:03.000you know to be a clown about it i think that there's a point there that i want to get to
01:52:08.840this is not one that's humorous but it's something that's interesting um
01:52:15.400There is, okay, I believe that it is very beneficial for us to often take, do an evaluation of why we think the things that we think and play out the logic, because I think that's important.
01:52:37.380And I don't think enough people do that or maybe look at things as deeply sometimes in our lore.
01:52:51.180So it's just like, I try not to do this, but I think that in conversation, it's very relevant.
01:53:02.800i always want to present alsatru as a standalone faith and it is but i think
01:53:08.880when talking to an audience that has a point of familiarity with christianity
01:53:15.920most in my experience most christians when they read their whatever their edition of the bible is
01:53:23.840they read be it the king james version or something newer they assume that's exactly how
01:53:32.320their god wrote it and like literally wrote it or inspired i mean i don't i don't mean to present
01:53:39.520christians as ignorant that's not the case but they believe that whoever wrote it was directly
01:53:45.520like under the control of the holy spirit or whatever they believe to write it um
01:53:51.760um they don't consider translations they don't consider the Council of Nicaea where you know
01:54:01.000okay cool what books are we going to count as canonical what books are we going to say are
01:54:05.800apocryphal there's all those things that went into that book being the way that it is and in
01:54:13.720their belief structure again that's up to a a pastor or a Christian priest to tell you the
01:54:19.420this or wrong this or that i'm not disputing that that's between their god and his followers
01:54:25.340but our faith is is different in that i think it's really important to consider
01:54:32.060this is the collected knowledge of the elders of our folk that was contributed or that was uh
01:54:38.780spread largely in storytelling and in teaching from elders to the community
01:54:45.260and then by extension through bars and scalds and such.
01:54:52.880We don't, if you trace it back logically,
01:54:57.160we don't have a point where we believe that.
01:55:00.100And then the gods traveled across the rainbow bridge
01:55:04.540and came to a dude named Olaf and said,
01:55:08.120hey, let me tell you, let me relay this to you
01:55:11.780and it's your job to write this down in this cave
01:55:14.100or whatever the case or on this mountain whatever the case might be so this is the collected wisdom
01:55:20.500of our folk and it grows and it evolves as the relationship between our folk and our and the
01:55:27.380icer evolves we want that to evolve to a more perfect place all the time our understanding
01:55:35.700of the ic or doesn't stop with some viking dude and get handed down to simon or to to snorri
01:55:46.180that goes on and has gone since then in different ways some of that was was given to um
01:55:55.060maestro guido von list some of that in a different way was taught to uh
01:56:00.180alexander red mills and elsie christensen and uh hoskold and stoba and much of that
01:56:08.020is continuing to be given to uh our founder stephen mcnowlin and
01:56:16.420i believe very much that the icer are helping witness fawn and i to come to a more perfect
01:56:25.380understanding of them and that's very much the what we're what we're trying to do and what we
01:56:31.780seek to do through the gifting cycle and i feel that they've gifted us a lot with some insight
01:56:37.220into these things and i hope that that's beneficial and being transmitted to you guys um rightly
01:56:47.940and i i go before the altar and tonight i was running late so i'm not gonna lie and say every
01:56:54.180time but probably 90 of the 99 episodes i go before the altar every time i come on and i i ask
01:57:07.300all the isir really but on my altar i'm focusing the question to lord othen that uh you know
01:57:14.660hopefully you know to bless me with knowledge and help me to bring our folk to a better understanding
01:57:22.980of the Iser. And I hope that in some way I'm able to do that. But it's important to understand
01:57:31.080that our lore evolves over time. And the test of rightness of it isn't how closely it resembles
01:57:48.420what an ancient viking knew of our gods what svan and i um share with you guys
01:57:56.780should be much greater than theirs and hopefully you know i say 100 years from now hopefully 50
01:58:05.980years from now if i am talking to you as an ancient man hopefully i am able to tell you
01:58:12.480something better than i can tell you now and uh 50 years from that whoever whoever um is ulterior
01:58:21.840gofi does this better than i do and uh looking on from wherever i find myself
01:58:30.720you know hundreds of years from then i sure hope that whoever's the ulterior gofi is
01:58:36.720is further along this path than we are because that's that's what we're doing we're trying to
01:58:41.280get ever closer to that more perfect understanding of our gods and i hope that we're doing that in
01:58:46.240some way or communicating that in some way but i digress swan if you will take us back to uh
01:58:55.040the song armor well so that was i mean definitely it was something we had to hit on because if
01:59:03.920people are familiar with the story that would be like a wait a minute that doesn't make any sense
01:59:09.040and they would be correct um and again that you know the gods don't um exist out of the lore the
01:59:16.240lore exists because of the gods and uh that's a big thing that people get confused and they
01:59:22.080they really need to wrap their heads around um the astro folk assembly uh versus you know
01:59:29.280scholastic muses or musings or people that attempt to kind of yes re uh reignite that
01:59:37.680the the closeness that i could make it to an icelander in the 10th century that's what makes
01:59:44.240my religion real and not honoring the gods giving gift cycle and building community and bringing
01:59:50.480the gods back to the folk so um really important stuff um so again it ends with you know what what
01:59:59.200harbar did didst thou do uh the while and in in section 20 harbard uh or uh stanza 20 he says
02:00:08.560much lovecraft i rock number this is harbard's uh he's he's he's kind of saying i'm i can fight
02:00:17.520but i am definitely a lover and and he he repeats this over and over again um but it is kind of
02:00:25.200funny some of the things he's alluding to um so much lovecraft i wrought with them who ride by
02:00:32.160night when i stole them by stealth from their husbands a giant hard was clay barf me thinks
02:00:41.760his wand he gave me as a gift and i stole his wits away so a couple things first half of that
02:00:51.680the women who ride by night the word is merk reader and generally anybody who reads this would
02:01:00.320kind of go into the same nomenclatures as witches and trolls um however that second
02:01:09.600line really throws me off with you know when i stole them by stealth from their husbands um this
02:01:16.320is um i i believe that mercury there is a more of a colloquial term for uh you know the the women
02:01:26.080that ride about alone without their families or without their their husbands um the the kind of1.00
02:01:31.760independent women and um you know i wooed these independent and haughty women under the noses of1.00
02:01:38.800their husbands and so this is seen of course as a as a feat but also kind of as a poke um
02:01:47.520because it it they do mention the troll witches or troll wives uh or um uh coming up here um soon
02:01:55.920but the the uh the title is a little bit more benign um and then there's reference here in
02:02:04.720the latter part where harbarth talks about clay barth now this is i wanted to talk about clay
02:02:11.760barth because here's a perfect example of how people can get caught up in translations so
02:02:21.280the word clay bar this often referred to as a leopard that's just all it says or that it's the
02:02:27.440poetic word for um uh a bear or uh i want to say a mountain cat but if you if you look into it the
02:02:40.560word clay um by itself means a shelter or a shelving of cliff face and barth of course means
02:02:51.200beard so what it's really saying poetically is his name means he's got a a beard that shoots
02:02:59.440straight out it's like an outcropping or a precipice that shelters his chest it he's just
02:03:05.680got a kind of a wiry jutting beard um clay bar that's not really mentioned anywhere else and
02:03:13.920And I think it's really interesting, the usage of, well, he says wand.
02:03:24.440In the story here, the word in Old Norse is gamba tine, a tine or obviously a stick, a tine.
02:03:36.700This is like his magical, like, staff or wand.
02:03:40.020and he gives it to me as a gift and then i you know use it against him um
02:03:47.300but there's a lot to be said about this they're they're alluding to kind of more or less like
02:03:57.600rebel behavior the idea of like running off with these independent maidens you know while their
02:04:05.660husbands are at home. And then stealing this giant's tine, his staff, and then utilizing1.00
02:04:17.000it against him to stole his wits. And there's another thing is that these stories could be
02:04:21.820referenced elsewhere, but we just don't know that they haven't survived. And that they survived
02:04:31.080because of the poetic stanzas have kept them in memory but the actual stories of of these had not
02:04:39.480survived because they were never committed to memory via poetry so and that's another big thing
02:04:45.480i like to point out is that um um you know our our poetic aidas come from stories told first
02:04:56.200and we can see as another thing to say on this um
02:05:07.160i don't know because i don't concern myself with other circles of whatever these days
02:05:13.640but certainly when i got involved with house true originally
02:05:19.400there is a lot of i guess complaint or
02:05:26.200I don't know, bad-mouthing the fact that what we have is incomplete or, you know, people who wrote it down were Christian or this isn't, you know.
02:05:39.560There's a lot of complaint about the imperfection of what we have, but what I don't think people spend enough time on is appreciating the
02:10:24.120What Thor did Thaus do while? So this part here, the oak must have what it shaves from another. And Bellows makes mention of that. This is mentioned elsewhere in Greti saga, the same kind of usage.
02:10:46.360And I really, if I had prepared ahead of time on this one a little bit more, I would have kind of tried to delve deeper into that as to what, you know, again, the shaving from another oak tree.
02:10:59.780But the overall meaning is that, you know, to the victor belongs the spoils.
02:11:06.540And to be fair, oak trees are a type of tree that definitely just dominates.
02:11:15.260other trees around it get split by its branches and pushed over um it claims its space so
02:11:22.220you know the oak gets uh what it takes from others um so you know uh he's he's speaking of
02:11:32.220the fact that like the evil that was done um by the yoten was already established which is why
02:11:39.580using the gondor against him on his mind i think has reference to the the jotun using the gondor
02:11:46.540on other people's minds and so he got what he deserved um or again he is the oak
02:11:56.860and he claimed what was rightfully his um then thor speaks in 23 he goes eastward i fared
02:12:04.700of the giants i felled and a lot of folks take this a little bit i think misconstrued they say
02:12:13.020they're ill-working women who went to the mountain and large were the giant throng
02:12:20.700if all were alive no men would be there in mivgarth more so that's very confusing but
02:12:30.380one of the things he's stating is that he felled giants and there the women ran to the mountains
02:12:37.100and i think what this is referring to from my perception and understanding of like a lot of
02:12:43.260history is that he felled the jotens um so much that the women folk fled to the mountain to try
02:12:53.340to curse him out to try to magically bombard him to get him out um and he but still he killed the
02:13:01.180throngs of giants um and this is the one that's truly interesting though is if all were alive
02:13:09.820no men would there be in midgard midgard more and i think that again this is one of the first
02:13:16.860or one of the times in which the middle is referred to uh with jotunheim and vanaheim
02:13:28.380because you might see people that try to place vanaheim in the heavenly realm or jotunheim and
02:13:34.940the heavenly realm are somehow on the on the same plane um this i think is again
02:13:41.660reference to the fact that the jotnar are in the middle as well and that they're one of the
02:13:48.220cosmological influxes of this is that midgarther is seen as the world but also seen as the middle
02:13:57.820um and we have that influx of jotnar power from jotunheim that the the caustic um resistance and
02:14:08.300uh you know uh digestion of matter and of of that which is in the middle and then it is is brought
02:14:15.500back there's there's every realm in the middle that is not the earth itself bring in and take
02:14:23.580out a flux of power vanaheim it's life down to the the you know the tiniest single cell organism
02:14:32.220that wiggles on a microscope that wiggling that will to live um that comes from nature and the
02:14:39.100cyclic sense of nature comes from vanaheim and clearly the power of that you know with with
02:14:44.780animals having you know their their life force is you know seen as like the multiplicity of
02:14:51.180life itself from bonaheim um so a single animal is kind of returning to the whole um all life is
02:14:58.700stratified from the vana and then it's brought back in the same as with the jotuns the jotuns
02:15:04.060bring forth resistance they bring forth caustic um you know dis dissolvement and it is then leached
02:15:12.780back into jotunheim and you know we spoke uh last episode about um fenris's you know spittle
02:15:22.380poisoning and just dripping into the world of men so i think that this is a a reference to the fact
02:15:28.060that, you know, if I had let go, there would be no more folk in the middle. There is another
02:15:39.620theory that's come from this, though, is that this could also be a direct reference to the fact
02:15:45.160that Thor is fighting the Jotnar in the middle, kind of, again, felling them or fighting them,
02:15:56.880And that the placement of one of the great cosmic powers of the catalyst is, you know, again, fighting natural disasters, keeping things in balance, you know, lightning striking over a volcano or tornadoes, you know, being sundered by, you know, lightning or hurricanes and what have you.
02:16:18.180I think that's, I'm reading a little bit too deep into that. And I really think that what this
02:16:22.520really is, is just mentioning that the Jotun's and the Vanna are of the middle.
02:16:32.120And he, you know, then he says, what have you been doing while I was,
02:16:35.120you know, felling Jotun's in the East?
02:16:37.780in place that isn't really um brought up but harbarth in 24 says in valand i was
02:16:49.860and wars i raised princes i angered and and peace brought never peace was never found
02:16:59.140the noble who fall in the fight have ovin and thor have the race of thralls
02:17:05.680so um and i i always find that an interesting uh version of thralls
02:17:13.600thrylaking the the thrallish kin um is how it's it's referred to so um volond
02:17:26.080it it's generally referred to as the land of slaughter
02:17:29.120but remember to vol also means the chosen or choosing. Um, but I think in this case,
02:17:37.360I think the, the slaughter terminology of it is, is better fitting. Um, and he's referring to
02:17:44.820just the place of war in which I can reap, um, you know, uh, and, or again, he's hiding.
02:17:54.020He's saying that he was in Valhalla and saw the wars or raised the wars and to gain noble warriors to go to Valhall while Thor gets loved by, you know, slaves.
02:18:16.000Again, another reference to class there, which is why some people leave that up there, but it's clearly an insult.
02:18:21.800And it, it starts to become so glaringly obvious that this is Lord Odin. And, um, you know, even though he references to that Odin is the Jarl, um, or is, uh, that the Jarls fight for Odin.
02:18:42.380um it's it's more of a tongue-in-cheek sense that by now I think anybody listening to the
02:18:50.000poem would know that Harbar there is Odin um but Thor does not seem to you know get it right away
02:18:58.500and that's not uh necessarily a structural insult to um Thor I think it's more of a plot convenience
02:19:08.980sense, because other stories do show that Lord Thor is very smart, very cunning, very intelligent.
02:19:15.940He is his father's son. But that's why I think that this story may have been framed around
02:19:24.080stories from the Slavic nation in referring to Perun and Veles kind of battling.
02:19:34.720um in 25 thor speaks he says unequal gifts of men wouldst thou give to the gods if might too much
02:19:46.100thou should have so here it's like he's saying if you had that much power um
02:19:55.420you would you would not give such a clean lot or you would not give such noble born men if you
02:20:06.640were in charge of gifting the gods so he's basically saying noble princes highly doubt it
02:20:12.940anybody that travels with you if they were given to the gods would be a deficit to the gods is what
02:20:19.000he's saying there unequal gifts of men wouldst thou give to the gods if might too much you should
02:20:24.960have. So again, uh, attacking his character and attacking the content of the people around him
02:20:32.500that he's thinking too highly of, of himself. Um, and then Harbarth retorts back in 26, he says,
02:20:42.760Thor has might enough, but never a heart for cowardly fear in a glove was thou feigned to
02:20:51.700crawl and there forgot thou wast thor afraid there thou was thy fear was such to fart or sneeze
02:21:00.340lest fjalliar should hear now this is a really cool one and most people um might immediately
02:21:09.220catch it um he's basically saying that um uh in the story of of thor going to jotunheim
02:21:20.180with loki and with the alfi and with rostva he hides in the glove but it's worth remembering
02:21:27.940that the the jotin that um that owned the glove was screamer not uh uh failure um
02:21:41.940so i i you know i find that very very interesting that that was um you know mentioned or perhaps
02:21:48.980even like as a you know a mistake um thor hides in a glove yeah or and he didn't he mistaken it
02:21:58.100for a cave in the story he finds a cave to shelter in and then it to re-emphasize the
02:22:07.300magnitude of screamer it's not a cave it's his glove so it really starts to set the default that
02:22:15.300um thor is entering a world where he's vastly outmatched he's vastly outnumbered and then
02:22:22.500at the end of the story you find out it was all illusionary magic and that uh lord thor was you
02:22:29.780know changing the levels of the ocean he was shifting you know the the axis of of midgard he
02:22:36.420was um you know fighting against um the you know the dissipation of time itself and um he was you
02:22:44.820know lifting the the the world serpent so that's the reference that they're making there is is that
02:22:52.260he you know i know that you uh you hung or you hid in a glove um so failure might be just another
02:23:05.140name for scream year. Um, but I think it's, there's, there's some confusion there that was,
02:23:11.440that was not matched. Um, in 27, Thor speaks and he says,
02:23:21.100thou womanish hard barth to hell would I smite thee straight? Could my arm reach over the sound?
02:23:30.000So now it just, that ignites the rage. And again, too, Lord Thor, his embodiment, his domain is the storm and the lightning and the uncontrollable rage and anger.
02:23:45.600because it was not seen that our ancestors would be spared from the rage of lightning because they
02:23:51.760honored uh thunor thor donor they they understood that his rage was just right there brimming on the
02:24:01.840edge and so the the this part of the story is like emphasizes that bang all right now he's pissed
02:24:10.720and and they were waiting for it um and he basically resorts to just you know
02:24:17.920violence and and and with good reason he would and this kind of lends to um clearly uh the
02:24:26.160mythos of mjolnir being thrown there are stories of him throwing the hammer and there's uh the
02:24:33.120story of him smiting um prongnir and you know blasting his head um open with a throw but it's
02:24:43.040not prevalent here so i don't think that tossing the hammer was a huge um and consistent part of
02:24:53.840the lore of thor um uh so i just wanted to point that out because i thought it would be
02:25:01.440worth noting um you know how much of that is marvel per se or how much of that is um
02:25:08.660just kind of storytellers breaking down the poems kind of having some license with it um
02:25:16.580um so the oh and the other is uh the word and i just saw it now and i was like
02:25:25.420Ooh, I would love to see that. The word is ragi, R-A-G-I, as what he uses for when he says womanish, and the meaning of that word does not pop into my head.
02:25:46.100i think most people on our show who have been um faithful to the icier might know like the
02:25:54.340the word like ergi as to mean something of that nature but this one is kind of interesting and i
02:26:02.100i just wanted to uh you know quickly take a look and see what we have with um
02:26:07.220uh shaggy rag cowardly uh yeah rachna ragna um i know that most people would think of like
02:26:21.660rachna uh rachna rock um as you know the twilight um time of the destruction of or the doom
02:29:30.080you can mutually talk between the two it's been said by other linguistic sources that
02:29:37.520have looked into that you know a modern icelander could speak to a you know to a viking and
02:29:44.560on they would understand one another um you know i can save thee and thou and lo dust thou
02:29:55.200you know dost thou question me verily shalt i answer your questions and i may sound silly but
02:30:02.720you know what i'm saying and it makes sense it's similar in that there are differences but that's
02:30:08.880why on memorize that spawn just talked about we or i am taking the icelandic and the old norse
02:30:17.520course to try to be able to mix and match and hope i can utilize old norse vocabulary maybe with
02:30:24.880modern icelandic sentencing and putting stuff together to make it work um but yeah that's
02:30:34.080that's what pretty i say that there are bits of lore that are you know in old high german there
02:30:44.080are bits of lore that are in anglo-saxon but 97 of the lore that we have is in old books
02:30:54.880But I figured we'd knock that question out because it was relevant to what you were just speaking on.
02:31:01.100Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it is worth noting, like, I'm not an Old Norse scholar. I'm on Memrise as well. I have the benefit of Icelandic being my first language, but I came here before I was even in grade school.
02:31:17.400So my mother spoke immediately to my elder brother saying like, he needs to learn English immediately. I didn't know any English. And even though my father is American, he was stationed in Iceland outside of the Navy, even though he was in the Navy, because he learned the language.
02:31:40.400so he was actually working with nato and so at the house when i was in iceland growing up there
02:31:46.880it was just icelandic and i didn't i wasn't old enough to grasp that my father was american or in
02:31:53.840the american military i even remember being picked on by some of the icelandic kids when i was little
02:32:00.240for being a riki an ameriki which are american um and i didn't understand why i i have a very very
02:32:12.080clear memory of like wondering why they were picking on me and i didn't understand what this
02:32:16.320this was all about and then when we moved i had to immediately get shoved into
02:32:23.040public school system in a very uh multicultural diverse military town and they really felt like
02:32:31.360the language barrier would be bad so after about six years old um and on i i spoke english but
02:32:40.080then as i started to come to the faith in my mid-teens um reading it speaking with my mother
02:32:48.800about it it immediately kind of came back the uh a lot of the the um pronunciations so that's what
02:32:57.840really started me on the road to looking into it and trying to understand more um and some of the
02:33:03.760rules i just kind of automatically understood and um but i'm not you know like a learned old
02:33:12.240nor scholar so you know we are um we're doing this with the with the best of intentions to show
02:33:20.880because again i have i think too a lot of scholars don't look at the poetic meaning
02:33:25.120and some of the kind of more cultural nuanced meanings behind some of the things that were
02:33:29.120being said they kind of look for either literal translations or the closest thing that they can
02:33:34.880find sometimes um or they just discount them and say like oh no this river doesn't really have a
02:33:40.160meaning it's just a holy river uh that's a you know an error too so um and land of the blind
02:33:48.080the one-eyed man is king well and i just encourage but i encourage everyone to gain that eye you know
02:33:56.160that's another thing we're not coveting we're we're uh we want our folk to know more and to
02:34:02.400read more. So if you learn Old Norse, or you learn Icelandic, all the more important.
02:34:10.640Hane got to covet because he is an Icelandic linguistic wizard,
02:34:16.240casting his linguistic spells upon us all.
02:34:22.400Well, so again, looking at it more too, when he says,
02:34:27.520hard bother in rye um it's kind of like cowardly raggy weak um i immediately hit my mind because
02:34:39.600this this is going to show you too i i'm very american um the uh the second mad max movie
02:34:47.680um you know tina turner's referring to mel gibbs's character as the raggedy man and that is very much
02:34:54.240kind of what's being said here is that you're you're a raggedy man doesn't make you american
02:35:00.400that makes you australian oh well i mean it was marketed in america but i'm a child of the 80s
02:35:06.720for sure bring your foreign nonsense on my shore that's a great movie um so uh you know he says
02:35:19.920you know, I would, I'd smite thee if I could reach across the sound. Um, and Harbarth says in 28,
02:35:28.800wherefore reach over the sound since strife, we have none. What Thor didst thou do then?
02:35:36.560You know, like, why would you, why would you smite me? Again, this is a feigning. Just why
02:35:42.960would you fight me? We have just a few minutes ago, you said we had no bad blood or you had no
02:35:49.120bad blood with me um and then thor speaks in 29 eastward i was and the river i guarded well
02:35:57.200where the sons of svar svarong or svarong sought me there stones did they hurl small joy did they
02:36:06.960have of winning before me there to ask for peace did they fare what how barth did thou do the while
02:36:16.320So this part is interesting. The Sons of Svarang may likely very much be an alluding to another story that we don't have. And this, again, really shows the incompleteness of the stories that were transferred to poems.
02:36:35.980um and he says you know they hurled stones at me and um they had no chance of winning so much so
02:36:44.040that when i you know when i went through them they begged for a truce they begged for peace
02:36:49.660by the time i was done with them not he's not saying he gave it to him he's just saying by the
02:36:55.960time i got i got into full swing they were they were begging for mercy um and he says what were
02:37:04.980you doing? And Harbarth says, eastward I was and spake with a certain one. I played with the linen
02:37:13.760white maid and met her by stealth. I gladdened the gold decked one and she granted me joy.
02:37:24.160So this is where some people have taken this to mean that, and I think this is the main
02:37:34.080crux of the argument that this is not lord odin but that this is um loki is that they try to say
02:37:42.080that he went eastward and laid with golvey if anybody remembers from that story golvey is one
02:37:50.400of the first emissaries of the vanir to step amongst the icier and she brings she's you know
02:37:57.280in gold and she brings cunning and witchery um and the um you know that kind of uh lending to
02:38:08.240that is that that this is really loki and he and he's slept with with gulvey or what more likely
02:38:16.160may be the case is that this is another alluding to a story that is not you know known to us and
02:38:25.680and you'll find people like, ah, see, this is, he says this here, and that's the reason why we
02:38:30.720believe what we believe, or we think what we think, um, but without consideration of the entire whole
02:38:36.360and what's going on, um, but it's, it's, you know, I, I think it's, uh, it's a stretch, and I think
02:38:48.640that the gold decked one is referenced to women in or the women in general the pleasing sense of
02:38:56.000women and a woman that is bedecked in gold is and with white arms or you know with fiery hair
02:39:04.320these descriptions always hold kind of a sense of beauty in the cultural sense of of a woman so um
02:39:12.200because he also you know i played with the linen white maid that he's referring absolutely to her
02:39:18.000skin tone. She is linen white and I met her by stealth. And that kind of alludes to the idea0.87
02:39:24.500that she may be another married woman. Um, you know, and I gladdened the gold decked one and
02:39:32.400she granted me joy. So some people kind of really take the, the, the good, uh, as being a specific,
02:39:41.320uh trait to a specific being when i think that the linen white and the gold decked are both
02:39:50.280referenced to a woman um and again it's harvard always speaks of his kind of sexual conquests
02:39:58.740in the east amongst the the jotnar um and i think that that has a lot of stock especially
02:40:07.500when you consider that most of the viking good were like military traveling warriors and you know
02:40:43.180i think male and female audiences would respond to that he's able to go to foreign lands and you know
02:40:53.500get the chicks and i think that it's not just like he's some dude in port somewhere
02:41:01.660one of the things with the giants and you see this in the Yotnar encounters
02:41:10.080in a later age in a later time they're you know these dullard like oh literally ogres and things
02:41:20.620But in the high age of the Eddas, they're very often these very wise magicians, these primal geomancers or whatever, these sorcerers of these very primal elements.
02:41:44.060And they're, I don't know the right way to relate this on the program and not offend anybody, but they're not just like, you know, some chick at the bar.
02:41:58.780These are, these are wise and powerful elemental forces.
02:42:06.120These are, you know, pretty difficult people to impress.
02:42:12.180you'll see that when um when the gods interact with with jotnar in this way very often it's a
02:42:20.440test of knowledge and of magic it's you know even the greatest of the gods go there and have to
02:42:27.900prove themselves and it's not that level of superiority is not clear you know it's not
02:42:35.980impressive for a god to go amongst mortals and score chicks that's you know they're gods it's
02:42:43.900kind of a thing you can do going amongst the primordial like sorcerers and sorceresses of1.00
02:42:53.580our existence and the world it probably takes a lot to do well with the ladies in that way0.75
02:43:02.600and uh that's really i mean all of these things if it's not obvious to this point are these flexes
02:43:09.860like yeah i'm whooping up on these giants what are you doing well guess what i'm doing you know and
02:43:15.260it's these are all flexes and that's not without without note certainly to this audience he is able
02:43:22.300to go um woo these giantesses of of great stature as far as their their intellect
02:43:32.600and their value it's really different you know
02:43:39.320it's much more of an accomplishment than it may seem like and it is a huge accomplishment that
02:43:44.920thor is able to best these immensely powerful beings in combat it is also very impressive
02:43:55.080that uh laura odin is able to to bed these giantesses um and the com the comparison in a
02:44:04.840you know like locker room back and forth is it's rich with meaning and i think it's
02:44:12.120a little bit more than maybe a modern audience would read in the text
02:44:16.440well and i mean you speak of like the esoteric nature of it i mean obviously
02:44:29.640people might be like well are you reaching for this again when thor goes to jotunheim and he
02:44:35.640drinks from the horn and he lowers the seas in midgard the context of primordial natures to the
02:44:43.240east is clearly already established the idea of how the east affects the middle um because it is
02:44:50.040also in the middle is already established so we're not really stretching it very far and the idea
02:44:55.960that the that really what we're looking at is two divine powers going into the primordial and
02:45:05.000attacking or defeating or conquering in very different ways one is done through subterfuge
02:45:12.600One is done through charisma and with guile, and the other is done with brute force and bravery.
02:45:20.540And that's ultimately what's kind of being said here, is that Lord Odin moves through and in to the aggression against the gods in a way that is, you know, again, when he steps out of the castle, when he steps out of heaven, all bets are off.
02:45:41.480dynamicism is is about winning it's not about you know following ardent rules and uh lord thor when
02:45:51.100he steps out of the out of the heavenly realm his nature takes over and that is to simply drive a
02:45:58.040wedge to you know thorn or to purge through that which is which is in front of him so it's really
02:46:05.540i think talking about their natures in the way that they conquer the primordial um
02:46:16.100and so i i think it's worth noting here and this is just throwing kind of random stuff out i don't
02:46:22.740want to over um i don't know overplay what relevance this has but um these very primal forces
02:46:35.540uh there's something to be said for being able to best primal forces in matters of lust and
02:46:54.020sexuality because they are they are that they're very primal in in that nature and it's really
02:47:08.580i feel like this is a little bit overstating i don't know how to make an analogy that's not
02:47:12.420too stretched but from something that is is astral and very much from the upper world to
02:47:19.780go to something that is very primal and be able to best them at a primal thing is
02:47:27.620a powerful display of of your ability in all realms
02:47:35.700you know if you're a if you're a competitive you know lifter and you can go to a chess
02:47:43.700tournament and whoop up on the chess champions at the same time that's a really interesting way to
02:47:51.780show ability and aptitude and that's one of the cool there's so many things in this that clearly
02:48:01.700point to harbarth being lord oden that it's kind of ridiculous to think otherwise and i think that
02:48:09.380people who do are working off of um river and that was an idea that he had at a time where we had a
02:48:16.980lot less a lot less points of reference than we have um but you know that's one of the big things
02:48:28.180about lord owen is his ability to travel through the worlds and do things his versatility um and
02:48:36.500i think some of that is displayed in that he can best these giants and tests of uh of wisdom he can
02:48:45.620best them in sexual conquests he can invest them in a lot of ways that are very
02:48:54.500i'm coming at it from several different angles in a lot of ways he is a
02:49:03.540a renaissance man to the extreme the fact that he is so versatile in his his skill set and his
02:49:09.860level of mastery of things show his preeminence as the the king of the gods the father of the gods
02:49:18.660the all father um we were on 31 correct
02:49:35.060i believe yes you know that better than i do
02:49:40.580because I'm the one that takes us on these crazy excursions widely afield from the text.
02:49:48.340I promise when I do it I think it's relevant and I hope it's useful.
02:49:54.500Well so in 31 Thor speaks and he says, and remember too you're going to notice it's one
02:49:59.940line and a one line and a one line. There is no real poetic measure here. This is a very chaotic
02:50:06.180um poem um and again i think that we have to remember poems come from stories i believe that
02:50:14.500the story ultimately is was inspired by um again like the slavic sense of the dynamic verses and i
02:50:23.680think that's the power of what makes the gods um is that when we hear the stories about them it's
02:50:31.320it's uh the the truths or the the mysteries in them are clearly there and i think that the the
02:50:38.600gods know this um it's not incumbent upon them to just simply state it is that it exists and it
02:50:45.640exists with us to have the inclination to look deeper into them but um you know they
02:50:54.440you you see the the measure and the overall sense so when people really like lean in hard on
02:51:00.360on on these being like a bible it's like you gotta know and remember no these have you know
02:51:08.120issues with them whether they're you know misquoting certain you know characters in the
02:51:13.960other stories or they just get chaotic and stop following me like poetic measure completely and
02:51:20.920this is like the whole section of this um the other thing is is that this one is going to really
02:51:27.480get the goose of um uh i think people who are of this day and age and their sense of morality
02:51:38.360um because he speaks about um holding down a jotun made um so thor speaks and he says
02:51:50.280full fair was thy woman finding now in there that line he he says that uh
02:51:57.080the word me man kini uh k-y-n-n-i um and mon of course being the neutral word for
02:52:07.880people um it's interesting that he specifically used woman finding and i don't know i mean
02:52:15.000obviously i i think that fits because of the entirety of the subject they're talking about
02:52:19.640but it's not necessarily the word that would immediately lend to that um you know that uh
02:52:26.440and mon of course being people and um kenny being like the inspiration or lighting of um
02:52:36.040so you know you know or it could have been meant that way oh you're very good at and you know um
02:52:41.880kind of what is it you know igniting the people you meet or inflaming the passions of the people
02:52:50.520you meet even though he's clearly talking about just consistently wooing over um harbar speaks
02:52:58.280thy help did i need then thor to hold the the white maid fast so i should you know i wish i had
02:53:06.840your strength to um you know keep the wriggling made um still and thor speaks gladly had i been
02:53:17.320there my help to thee had been given and then harbarth retorts i might have trusted thee then
02:53:24.440did thou not betray thy troth and then thor returns no heel biter am i in truth like an
02:53:32.440old leather shoe in spring so this exchange here is um you know while i was in the east and i was
02:53:41.720you know conquesting uh i could have used you to to pin down that wriggling maid um how you know
02:53:49.560uh wily she was um and so a lot of people immediately take this into they're talking
02:53:55.640about rape and uh more likely if you look at some of the runic names that are on stones the idea of
02:54:03.880like the wiliness or the ability inability to be pinned down and i think that reference is here
02:54:10.920is that he's saying like she was wily and maybe even very flexible is a kind of a thing he's
02:54:19.080alluding to and he's like i really could have used your help with your strength you could have held
02:54:23.400are still um and he said you know i gladly would i've been there um um and my help i would give
02:54:32.280um and then harbar the returns with well i can't trust you um you know you you're you're known for
02:54:41.860turning on your word and he said no heel biter um the heel biter in an essence back biter and
02:54:49.280you know giving um you know a shoe is supposed to protect your foot the ultimate insult the
02:54:57.840shoe can do is give you a blister in the heel is kind of what's being alluded to in that use of the
02:55:05.120word um so i'm no heel has betrayed me if that is the case what's that i said many a shoe has
02:55:14.320betrayed me yes and i think that's where the source of the colloquial meaning comes from
02:55:19.680is like yeah it's it's like um calling a shield wrist breaker you know it's supposed to protect
02:55:27.040you but yet when it gets hit it snaps your wrist in half so i am no heel biter you mentioned wrist
02:55:35.920breaker it's random point of interest that is the colloquial code name for the model sword
02:55:43.200that relentless the afa sword is oh because it's heavy and you got to be
02:55:50.560you got to be uh mighty of arm to wield it less than damage your wrist right it's going to work
02:55:58.800against you just you know along with your enemies if you're not strong enough um the entire uh
02:56:09.760stanza 36 again it gets very chaotic it's a one-liner and it's simply that that question
02:56:15.440again what thor did thou do while and thor speaks he says in hlesi the brides of the berserkers
02:56:26.000slew i most evil they were and all they betrayed um
02:56:33.440Um, and Harbarth says, shame, did thou win that woman thou slewest? Did you manage to bed any of
02:56:44.280these, you know, uh, berserker wives? And this is kind of an interesting thing here. So the usage
02:56:51.000of the berserker and the idea that berserkers or were kind of scary edge, they weren't community
02:57:00.720based berserkers weren't seen as people you could have around they were kind of very much
02:57:06.560on the edges of society and so calling them berserker brides or berserker wives um is again
02:57:14.160even going further over that edge line towards troll wives troll witches um evil thurser maidens
02:57:24.480um and he's you know slay slays them all and harbarth says you know it's a shame
02:57:29.680did you win any of them before you slayed them and um
02:57:36.080he says you know she wolves they were like and women but little so he's like they were more like
02:57:45.120female wolves than women um my ship which well i had trimmed did they shake with clubs of iron0.93
02:57:55.760they threatened and the alvi they drove off what how barf didst thou uh thou the while so1.00
02:58:07.360he's uh makes a mention but he says yo they were not i could not bed them they weren't women
02:58:13.040they were she wolves and they had grasped my ship um and shook it and this is again there's no real
02:58:24.880named or mentioning of a specific ship that that um thor owns or this could again be alluding to
02:58:31.920another story where he was on a ship and these troll wives these um witch wolf women you know
02:58:40.560grasp onto the edges of his boat to try to tip it um they they you know they they shaked it and they
02:58:49.120swung iron clubs at him and they they chased the alfay off and that's what makes me believe that
02:58:54.160this might be again another um alluding to another story because the alfi is we if for those familiar
02:59:03.360the alfi and roskva travel with thor to jotunheim and the alfi seems to be again a continuing
02:59:10.160character in the stories there may have been other stories about him and lord thor
02:59:15.680traveling about and this might have been one of them but they they chase him off um
02:59:21.120so while i was fending off the um you know venomous trolls uh what were you doing so he's
02:59:31.920like i'm out here you know i'm fighting it i'm giving it the good fight what were you doing
02:59:38.480um harbar says in 40 in the host i was that hither fared the banners to raise and the spear to redden
02:59:48.720so this there's a uh an interesting point of this what it may seem is and what's being spoken of is
02:59:58.520um i was in the the the troll wives and the and the she wolves and the yotans or or what have you
03:00:08.720i was in their group i was in their midst and i was encouraging them to fight you and a lot of
03:00:15.380people, again, point this out. That's Loki. That's Loki. That's why he was in or amongst
03:00:23.060the throng. If we're going to look at it like that, one thing that's worth noting too is that
03:00:29.060oftentimes Lord Odin is seen as the one who aggresses against you at the greatest moment
03:00:38.600or the moment of choosing. He does this with Sigurd's father, Sigmund, and repeatedly over
03:00:44.300and over again. And, uh, you know, I, if I was to read in this more in a story sense, I would
03:00:50.060definitely say if he's amongst the throng, encouraging these Jotun's to attack his son,
03:00:55.100he's doing it because he's making his son stronger. He's, he's throwing these, these, uh,
03:01:03.020you know, forces against him. He's angling the forces to, to again, build his son up. Um,
03:01:09.840but it also might just be again another insult towards him that he's saying oh yeah yeah i
03:01:17.120remember that because i was there and i encouraged it it could be something as simple as that because
03:01:21.940that again readdresses harbar's kind of goading nature um even if he wasn't actually there and
03:01:30.580doing it he's saying that he did it in order to make sure that he knows oh yeah it's like i'm the
03:01:35.940reason that even happened um and also swan what is uh you know one of lord odin's um
03:01:51.140hectic or other uh names he's known by oh bull worker yeah ill worker that's the thing is there's
03:02:05.940In context, so many of these references are very much in character with Lord Odin's by names, with the stuff that he is, either takes credit for doing or is accused of doing.
03:02:23.880And his flex on Thor about how the noble in battle go to Odin's Hall and Thor just gets the commoners or whatever.
03:02:35.720he talks about stirring strife amongst you know amongst the princes and
03:02:40.920bringing them to battle i think there's a lot of
03:02:51.000there is common sense to a lot of these things if you read it in the way that normal human beings
03:02:58.520would read these things but it's very tempting to some to run with a wild theory that you can
03:03:08.280try to like wedge in there like aha i know a secret that you guys don't know what about this
03:03:14.360new theory that i came up with and you can do it to a lot of different things and i don't think
03:03:19.880it's always bad intended but it's not done from a place of piety it's done from a place of i don't
03:03:27.880know perhaps scholasticism perhaps hubris but there's very much a common sense place to take
03:03:39.880these things now we got 20 more verses and we're going to hit those two weeks from now
03:03:46.920we're going to cut off our uh study of the harbar field right now and we'll answer some of the
03:03:55.480questions that we haven't got to and any additional questions you guys might have
03:04:00.360and we'll get to the conclusion of this here in two weeks um i hope you will and i'm gonna
03:04:06.760try to pressure them into it flex on them get them to but uh swan we would love to have you on
03:04:12.520next week as part of our centennial program um i'm gonna try to get a whole bunch of different
03:04:20.840people on nobody's really got to leave until we start stacking up but i want to celebrate a lot
03:04:27.160of the guests that we've had you've been you know been on almost 50 of the shows that we've done so
03:04:35.080we would love to have you here for part of it you certainly don't have to be here for all of it if
03:04:38.840you don't want yeah i'm definitely i'll definitely um love to have you call in and uh celebrate with
03:04:44.440us absolutely um yeah it's man duh doesn't seem like it's been you know 99 episodes so far um
03:05:03.720We have learned a lot in those not quite two years that we've been doing this.
03:05:21.720Nick has helped out tremendously behind the scenes and he's so often unsung because we
03:05:26.720him one here but um producing this show and you know making it all work is a lot of work
03:05:35.840that he does on the back end folks that don't and why would you there's no way that anybody
03:05:42.880listening to this or even the vast majority of people involved in afa leadership would
03:05:48.640really understand but i mean i'd say nick
03:05:56.400top three as far as hard workers in the afa i'd say pretty confidently um
03:06:07.440nick is nick does lots for us all of the time and helping the show be a success is
03:06:13.840a big part of what he does and we appreciate it a lot
03:06:18.640um see where we've got there have been kind of interesting things floating in and out of the chat
03:06:26.640one of those things is one of the many things that nick does is nick offers your professional
03:06:34.180services to people for free nick says that you will show up at winter night and winter nights
03:06:40.980and cut people's hair for free signed you up for this yeah so no that's i mean that's fair i've
03:06:50.820done it before um and i enjoyed doing it it really kind of depends on the situation and it generally
03:06:57.780uh if there's a three-day weekend if we're doing friday saturday sunday it most likely will be in
03:07:02.580the beginning of of friday and i know a lot of folks can't get there until perhaps they're
03:07:08.100leaving work early or what have you i try to do a little bit saturday morning but that depends on
03:07:13.780scheduling that also depends on my children if i have my children with me um and and you know my
03:07:20.420wife is busy or what have you like uh at winter nights you know it was perfect my wife was had
03:07:26.900the kids and everything was fine i was able to go how long was that i was here but that was like
03:07:32.180eight hours of did you cut your hair did you cut hair this last winter nights uh
03:07:40.260the one in ohio okay i did not i was going to say this last one we had at sagerheim
03:07:45.940i did not get my hair cut by you no no and that's because of the
03:07:51.060well the electricity kind of a unique setting um but i've i've done it many times before and people
03:07:59.620will overuse your generosity and have you out there doing it's really kind of a nice thing
03:08:05.840and i appreciate that you do it i'll try to plan so i can get at least touched up by you there um
03:08:14.440that's saying that so you will be joining us up in new hampshire this year yes absolutely that's
03:08:22.020awesome so those of you that may not know i suppose it's an okay time to plug it wasn't my
03:08:27.140intention but might as well um for the first time we're going to be celebrating our our national
03:08:34.020winter nights up in new hampshire that's august 11th through the 13th i would encourage anybody
03:08:41.140who can to join us up there i am excited i've never been to that part of the country i think
03:08:49.060the furthest north on that coast i've ever been is the boston area for something a number of years
03:08:58.420ago but even then it was just kind of fly in go to the go to the moon fly out so i'm eager to see it
03:09:05.620i'm excited to be up there and hang out with all of our uh far northeast afa family anybody else
03:09:14.980who can make it up there and uh spawn will be up there cutting hair so there we go um
03:09:23.780so i said this and i literally put this in the text to mandy you've been looking real
03:09:29.940good the past two episodes fawn and i texted no homo so it made it all right um
03:09:38.260but you're looking sharp no i noticed like so i really like my barber he's awesome but
03:09:43.060But his hair looks like crap and he always wears a hat and he's kind of, you know, disheveled like a gentleman.
03:09:50.320And that seems to be a commonality amongst barbers that I've interacted with.
03:09:55.980So somebody's doing your hair and seems like doing an okay job.
03:10:00.360Well, so one of the things like the last episode and the time before my hair has grown out.
03:10:05.740I normally cut it really, really short.
03:34:46.340But let's just push that aside for a second and just say that one of the big points of Ragnarok is the fimble winter and the idea of three years or three cycles of the sun conjoined only by a winter.
03:35:06.960So that would be one of the big ones that would kind of, again, allude to that. But I mean, are we talking about a physical event that happens here or are we talking about what could happen to the gods?
03:35:27.180I think the biggest thing is most Ausatürer that I meet think of it as the inevitable end that drives the gods forward.
03:35:35.800And that's what is really important, that our gods are not immortal.
03:35:42.940You know, a lot of other religions, especially universalist religions, have turned their god into that,
03:35:48.500even though that wasn't always the case since the beginning.
03:35:50.640But they have they have made their gods so abstract to cover all angles, because, again, the singularity doesn't work in nature.
03:36:01.480Multiplicity does. So what you've got to do is make singularity just be everywhere and everything at all times.
03:36:09.480So and that just makes divinity so abstract that you can't even relate to it.
03:36:14.340You can't, you know, get that. That's why I think Christians really push the concept of like eternal love or or the conditional love that they that they go on that that really helps their followers relate to the abstract.
03:36:29.640act um so if i was to say like i guess in a sense i believe that that's the thing that makes our
03:36:38.920gods move is that there's a point in which the uh the the the present converges with the past
03:36:48.620everything kind of coalesces and culminates and that really is the lesson that's being learned
03:36:55.020the actions of the Aesir start a process. The slaying of Ymir, the establishment of
03:37:04.460the unification of the gods, cosmic order gods unify with natural law gods to fight against,
03:37:14.200you know, dissipative chaos and resistance. And the struggle continues. But if we didn't have
03:37:20.300that if it was all just, you know, ambrosia and immortality for forever, that does not
03:37:28.040hold true to the way our people relate to the divine. It may work for other peoples,
03:37:34.680but it doesn't work for us. And that's what Ragnarok really is, is this, that ultimate
03:37:39.520reality that even the, the great and long living, nearly immortal, powerful gods
03:37:47.260have to face an end and that makes them more uh purposeful and intuitive and it connects us
03:37:57.140because we have an end as well at the same time we also learn that our ends are not permanent
03:38:04.180that ascension is possible that um you know the culmination of the soul uh movement elsewhere
03:38:11.860it's the same with with the the ice here with um the bold one balder um and his movement and then
03:38:19.620his return after ragnarok and that's another big thing that that in the house of true folk assembly
03:38:25.940we focus a lot on that especially in relation to midsummer the return because even in the deepest
03:38:31.700of darkness we should be able to rise up and that that has a lot of um connotations whether it's
03:38:38.020internal whether it's external within the world um and you know do we only get a chance to rise up
03:38:45.540once no so that's one of the big the mythic truth of ragnarok is that the gods
03:38:54.980can and will and do rise up quite often and so shall we that's kind of the the overall
03:39:02.500um of the story what's fun said uh no there's more there's um a couple of things so let's take
03:43:23.400and he sits and is entertained in state and he is a prince in a foreign land and he is taken care of
03:43:32.460and after Ragnarok, he comes back to his kingdom and he picks up the pieces.
03:43:40.860What we know just scientifically is that energy doesn't get destroyed. It goes somewhere. It
03:43:48.540still exists and does something much like our existence the other thing is that i think is
03:43:55.980instructive in all of this and this may not be where you meant the question to go but it's
03:44:01.980you know it's where i'm steering the ship and i appreciate you you're leaving doing so it uh
03:44:10.140we believe in the austral folk assembly very much in posthumous ascension
03:44:19.740what i say with that is that death isn't the end you can once you go through the process of death
03:44:29.980and whatever judgment is rendered by your ancestors and by the iser assuming that you
03:44:38.060are not consigned to the strand your reputation can still be elevated you still have ability to
03:44:49.340make something of yourself even if maybe you weren't able to accomplish all that you wanted to
03:44:56.060in this life and we as your as your folk and perhaps as your kin after you pass can affect
03:45:06.140your your might in the other realm beyond the veil by singing your praises by doing things in
03:45:14.380your honor by trying to elevate you as best as we can and that's kind of in a and i don't feel that
03:45:23.020we need to elevate meister von list um he is a celebrated hero of our folk and i have every
03:45:29.900reason to believe that he is in some ascended form and he's celebrating him as such but as a
03:45:36.860nod to that he made a vow that he in his life he was gonna you know as a as a as a child when he
03:45:45.020just when he came home in his own way to alsature there's a story he visited some some ruins i
03:45:53.660believe with his father in austria and he he decided at one point that one day i'm gonna build
03:46:03.660a temple to oath and he was gonna do this and he wasn't able to build a physical temple to
03:46:13.020open in his life but he set in course so many things that have led us to where we are today
03:46:20.460It was very important to me that when we established, when we dedicated the Hoth to Lord Oven, that we establish the shrine we have to the ascended Maestro Buddha on list in that very Hoth as a way of fulfilling the vow that he made.
03:46:46.480so that he could get that credit in the afterlife.
03:48:54.860no we got one more that pre no i'm just being obnoxious we'll hit yours first
03:49:00.980we've got um one more question after yours that I see as of right now question you are referencing
03:49:09.840high planes heathen um I also asked another one anyways it's fine besides in the uh scald
03:49:19.140scrapper mall scott scapper mall and the gilfaginning is there any other mention of yarn draper
03:49:31.940yeah so so take it away one of the big things to for those who don't know about
03:49:38.100uh iron gripper so the j is kind of like a double e sound and e our it means iron
03:49:47.220it's the same word iron gripper and the one thing is that it's not actually a single glove it's a
03:49:54.740double glove because there is another one called eon glover so it is spoken that he has two gloves
03:50:04.500um and not one the only reason why i want to emphasize that is because a lot of times when
03:50:09.380they do just the one glove it's it's kind of associating more with like the the marvel analogy
03:50:16.820of like being able to throw and then catch and return no there was two gloves and there was
03:50:24.740a belt that was given to um lord thor and it is called may in yourth or might of the earth
03:50:33.180and it is given to him by an oust veneer um her name is grither and doubles his strength
03:50:43.620doubles his strength and yes and it's interesting because um you find a lot of people who try to
03:50:50.160hypostasis the the earth goddesses we don't see that we see that in multiplicity so one of the
03:50:57.180big things is is that yarth is um again the the kind of um oust veneer she's primordial aligns
03:51:07.120with the gods she is that ever giving sense of the earth but there is another oust veneer who does
03:51:14.100well i would say two major things she helps lord thor when he doesn't have a hammer this is before0.92
03:51:24.360he has a hammer she gives him iron gripper and iron glove and gives him earth might the belt
03:51:31.280and she gives him an iron rod to fight against the primordial jotuns of emir and that's the
03:51:41.620first time she helps the second time is she joins with the gods and she bears forth a child from
03:51:48.300them and he he is the holy lord vidar the wide ruler and she is the it's never said explicitly
03:52:01.140But she is kind of held up as the Yardr and there is GrÃðr, as almost like a counterpart or perhaps like a sibling, an opposite sister, if you will, where Yard is seen as fruitful and with water and deep, rich soil and the trees.
03:52:26.560grither on the other hand her name means aggression or conflict um the the shaking of the
03:52:34.120ground the sundering of the plates the or the the soil um the lava flow she and the geysers0.98
03:52:42.680in the sulfuric sense the the very kind of poisonous or darker side the caverns the
03:52:50.660the the the crack and deep places of the earth grither is seen um as that is her dominion and
03:52:59.160she gives these the power of these iron items to lord thor and it's just an interesting uh kind of
03:53:08.720just a little headspace of where i'm at with some of these things it's interesting to me that the
03:53:14.520the might of the earth um is a belt around lord thor and that he has you know his iron gloves
03:53:23.640a kind of a like a positive and a negative he has an iron rod within that circular circulating
03:53:30.500system and stick yes the the the aggression stick the conflict stick um and then he has
03:53:41.280mjolnir ultimately the switch so in essence i feel like one of the mysteries that are
03:53:48.160that the gods gave to us in this analogous sense is alluding to the magnetic and electrical power
03:53:56.400that thor has almost in a you know symbolic sense uh you know a coil wrapped around
03:54:03.120uh a magnetized rod of iron creates an electromagnet um and i i do believe very
03:54:09.760much so that lord thor because they are gods they understand how these things work we do not we
03:54:16.200learn them as we go and i don't think it's incumbent upon them to teach us um they want us to
03:54:21.000earn this knowledge and um you know when i speak about the four names of thor one of the names of
03:54:27.540thor is vey er and vey of course means like a holy body or it could be a temple um but i've always
03:54:34.680kind of an analogated it to the atom that the the the most basic and uh building block or
03:54:44.060structure of creation is the atom and um he is the sanctifier of that that holy space um which
03:54:54.060takes in the form of of electricity or electrons so applying the the gods to all manners of things
03:55:02.220we could speak about them esoterically we could speak about them in the sense of lore and stories
03:55:08.780and talk about you know why you know thor wearing red or having a red beard or or like there was
03:55:16.380even uh lore studies about why his eyes and the mouth uh grimacing on the um the god poles there's
03:55:25.660all that's kind of good stuff too but we you know you can see the gods in all things if you're
03:55:33.260willing to look but it's not because they're omnipresent um in the sense that they're just
03:55:41.740all the gods are everywhere it's that they are clearly alluding to things uh they're these
03:55:47.340hidden kind of secrets you can see where their dominions keep them and what the catalystic throne
03:55:53.100for lord for and how he interacts with the worlds is you know through this kind of uh sense of
03:56:01.420breaking catharsis the flashing of light the uh deep transference of um heat in order to break
03:56:08.780imbalance or to create balance uh again that's why tornadoes and hurricanes exist because there's an
03:56:15.100imbalance and there's an attempt you know to seek that balance and oftentimes it's ripped asunder
03:56:20.140is what you know brings that so seeing the gods in everyone and in everything or at least
03:56:29.660within their particular domains is a practice that i really encourage people to do not
03:56:37.020so that it can be like oh well that means you know uh thor is everywhere um it's it's that it
03:56:45.420builds your relationship with them and what you begin to see is that the gods have great power
03:56:50.940they are in a lot of places and you can attest a lot of things to them that perhaps weren't always
03:56:58.460seen um you know understanding that thor is riding a chariot is that where that the chariot the the
03:57:06.220the mobility or the vehicle of the gods whether you know we're talking about every arian branch
03:57:11.980has you know the gods have vehicles but why a chariot because historically we know
03:57:17.900how much significance the chariot had as a symbol of us being a people as we moved
03:57:23.420you know there's even reference of it in the bible in which it said that yahweh could not conquer
03:57:28.540those who rode with iron wheels in the north and they're you know speaking of um the arians and
03:57:36.940then there was the uh like tyrannous amongst the gauls he had a wheel and a a crudule um a lot of
03:57:45.420this symbology is history story but it could also be more it could it could be um science could be
03:57:56.380uh or the understanding of of the universe big and small but um yeah so iron gripper outside of
03:58:04.780the guild beginning and outside of um uh which did he say which was the other one
03:58:16.620oh you just said that was it just the guild beginning oh no the uh skull scrap the skull
03:58:22.780scapper skull for small yeah uh the biggest point of connection for me i don't think it does but
03:58:31.500what i immediately would recommend is that if you're interested in this story look up the
03:58:37.020oust veneer her name is grither g-r-y-t-h-i-r is how i think it's spelled in english and that is a
03:58:46.700very interesting story and i can't remember i was looking just now to see if there was a specific
04:17:49.460why are you scared and you see this when you interact with any number of entities
04:18:00.420you see this when you act with interact with dogs yeah it's more consequence if you deal with like
04:18:07.280a caucasian shepherd or something crazy or king corso or something or a pit bull if you start
04:18:14.680acting really scared they're going to take advantage of that and they're going to hurt you
04:18:19.960if you don't you're going to fare a lot better um when you go to any make a first impression with any
04:18:29.880person if you're acting all scared and weak and victimy then it's going to open you up to people
04:18:38.280taking advantage of you and i run into this a lot and it's a common thing amongst generic pagan
04:18:46.520circles to be fearful of uh of ghosts if ghosts are are people who have passed i mean i don't know
04:19:02.120if you go to the supermarket and there's an indian there and he gives you some attitude are you scared
04:19:07.080of him if you are then maybe you should be scared of his dead ancestors if you're not then maybe you
04:19:15.160should not be scared of his dead ancestors don't be a jerk and treat them like you would treat
04:19:21.960someone in real life in your regular existence for example if you have a friend of yours and
04:19:29.000the other day you were you know giving him wet willies and you know punching him in the arm and
04:19:34.360joking with him or whatever and all of a sudden he gets hit by a bus so next tuesday all of a sudden
04:19:40.680you're terrified of this like super powered ghost super shredder thing that's going to come after you
04:19:48.920no it's your dead buddy he's you're he's still the same guy he's just across the veil
04:19:54.120and i don't mean any of this silly i don't take it lightly but i do take it to heart and i take it
04:20:02.040real. I love my grandpa. I loved him so much in life when I was a little boy. I love him
04:20:12.260now. And when I interact with him beyond the veil and go to my altar. He's not some magical
04:20:20.760different creature. He's my grandpa. It works the same with friends or enemies. But don't
04:20:31.340project fear and be scared if you're there because you have a right to be there and own it
04:20:36.460be there don't be a jerk but what are you scared of and if you don't start out with fear then i
04:20:47.720think you you have nothing to be afraid afraid of and here's the other thing and this is a point
04:20:54.320I wanted to make, and I kind of lost it over the course of this. Different people in different
04:21:05.500races and different countries and different groups of people all have different interests.
04:21:13.360Sometimes those interests conflict. Sometimes we have to fight about it. That doesn't make
04:21:21.740someone have to be the bad guy can both be good guys but there's one you know there's one drum
04:21:29.660stick and it's i'm going hungry or you're going hungry and we fight about it doesn't mean one of
04:21:35.900us is a horrible person we just have different interests and we're competing um because there
04:21:46.540is a conflict over the ownership of sacred space between you and your ancestors and some indian and
04:21:54.300his ancestors yeah fight represent yours stand up for yourself go for it i hope you win go team
04:22:05.260but it doesn't mean he's a terrible person or he's a bad guy or some kind of demon
04:22:10.700it is just on the other team um and all of these things are just something to phrase
04:22:21.580to uh frame your mindset when you're dealing with it don't be a jerk but be proud of yourself
04:22:31.180don't project fear you don't have anything to be afraid of anything more than you would in normal
04:22:36.860life again if you think you are up against some indian god then perhaps it's different
04:22:44.140but if it's just you know billy leaping buffalo the just some dude that happens to be dead
04:22:53.020on that that's okay again don't be a jerk we don't disrespect the dead that's because we're noble
04:22:58.620people but i guess the my long-windedness aside the point being
04:23:10.220if you believe you are interacting with dead humans you know how to interact with humans
04:23:17.740if you're an adult you've been doing it for 20 years or so at least
04:23:21.180don't fundamentally change that just because it's something beyond what you're used to
04:23:30.220fundamentally and i say that i've listened to swan and he did it in terms of a of a giantess but
04:23:38.060i've caught myself several times tonight inside conversations we do this we talk about ah i loved
04:23:44.860my mom my mom was this she was no screw that i love my mom she is this she is that
04:23:54.620we have to change the way we think about it but when you do that it affects your mindset
04:24:00.300and if you're not fearful because it's some strange other thing if it's no this is the engine
04:24:07.420dude i knew last week but now he's dead interact with him that way and i'd say that for you know
04:24:16.140hostile ghosts or ghosts of your friends or your family or anything else if you're
04:24:27.340i get long-winded on these things i don't mean to but i think they're really important concepts that
04:24:32.940i want to share what i've learned and how i think of them because i don't think sometimes people
04:24:41.180always consider it that way um yeah when you when you
04:24:54.300when you treat something as other and i think it's like i think it's like people do with nature
04:25:04.080when there's nature and then there's humanity and they're like two different things
04:25:12.000that's not how it's supposed to be why aren't we part of nature why aren't we nature we're not
04:25:24.280mechanical we're not you know we are nature we are a part of nature we function within nature
04:25:32.260that should affect how we approach things if we're over here and nature's over there
04:25:40.420it makes everything very different and it makes things competing and contentious
04:25:46.000and one or the other it doesn't work like that you know if i have a relation you know spawn is
04:25:53.200one of my very best friends. Svan gets hit by a bus tomorrow. He doesn't mutate into some
04:26:01.740strange creature. He's Svan. And I'm going to reach out at my altar. He's my friend on the
04:26:13.060other side. And there shouldn't be a difference in that relationship. The more we create an
04:26:22.100artificial distance the more we lose power and for lack of a term and i don't mean to cheapen
04:26:32.420this term alan if you listen to this program would scold me don't make it weird like that's
04:26:38.440the thing and i i say and i say that with your situation you asked about you know indian spirits
04:26:45.660interfering with your land taking but I also say it with approaching your altar and dealing with
04:26:52.240your ancestors don't make it weird or as Alan would probably advise make it weird don't make
04:27:01.800it something other or different or scary or a distance
04:27:07.820if you knew grandpa in life then you know him in death and interact with him that way
04:27:17.340I can only in the root of everything we do in Ausatruism relationships imagine this man if I got
04:27:30.340my daughter will run up and give me a hug and just jump on me and demand I get her some cookies
04:27:40.840or some milk or whatever her nonsense is today if something happened to me tomorrow and I passed
04:27:49.240away next week how would I feel if she treated me as some strange foreign object thing no I'm her
04:27:59.020dad. If I loved her this week and she was, you know, rattling on about whatever nonsense she
04:28:05.400wanted to watch on the TV and gave me a hug, how strange and foreign and just bad I would feel if
04:28:13.180she treated me as something strange and different when I was beyond the veil. And I think that
04:28:21.200should really affect just kind of our mindset on it. And I've rambled enough about it, but I feel
04:28:27.040strongly about it. I think it's something I don't think, I think a lot of people maybe don't
04:28:33.820approach it in that way. And I hope that people start. I think it's important.
04:28:44.760I've rambled about a lot of stuff tonight. That's kind of what I've been a theme a little bit.
04:28:51.680apparently long-winded and teary-eyed Matt is the best Matt can't help it that's really
04:29:02.420important to me and I get you know what thought about that so I get weepy on a lot of this stuff
04:29:09.200and it's not I mean I've knocked back four mules tonight so it's not like I'm not imbibing a little
04:29:17.060bit but it's not that i do it you should see me do a baby naming i just gush and i
04:29:26.580i've never felt like that was a bad thing honestly i feel and i really i mean this
04:29:35.380that's one of the things i'm most thankful for um as a gift from our gods
04:29:41.700I feel like I have the ability to be moved that way in a lot of places, and I think it affects me as a husband, as a father, but also as a leader of the AFA in a way that maybe I wouldn't have if I didn't tear up so easy over these things.
04:30:07.880so I feel a lot of these things really intensely
04:30:11.260but I feel like that's very much a gift