00:06:00.000joining us this evening um trying a few different things with the opening to give folks time to
00:06:14.880get in and and know that we're on i appreciate everybody that's in the chat room so far
00:06:22.240um so tonight my my guest is a very good friend of mine and an afa leader that gets far too little
00:06:33.260spotlight for the significance of his impact uh we got whitney clifford erickson with with us
00:06:39.020welcome cliff hey thank you for having me i'll share with you matt and hello everyone watching
00:06:44.480well you know going through what folks we needed to immediately get on here with me
00:06:55.040you know you're right there at the top of the list you really you've really had such a significant
00:07:00.860role certainly in my time as I was here you go for you I don't know you want to give folks a
00:07:06.180little bit of background on how you got involved in the AFA and kind of what you've done at least
00:07:11.600uh since since i've taken things over yeah absolutely that can that can either be a long
00:07:16.800story or a short story i'll i'll go with a middling story um but i think like a lot of us i was raised
00:07:23.600christian and fell away from that i spent some time as an atheist where you know the world
00:07:30.000revolved around me and i thought i knew everything those things turned out not to be true um and as
00:07:36.640i was trying to find something more meaningful um i was fortunate enough after searching around
00:07:45.120to find the the australian folk assembly um i was skeptical at first not in the community aspect of
00:07:55.120it but more in you know did did i believe in the supernatural you know i still had a lot of that
00:08:01.200christian baggage and um this baggage honestly um you know if you couldn't prove something in a
00:08:08.240laboratory um or at least by writing a really wordy theoretical paper about it then it must
00:08:15.360not be true right um and of course that's not the way the world is um and i was i was fortunate
00:08:22.240enough to have met um the the folk builder patricia who was the folk builder for the afa
00:08:28.480in Pennsylvania at the time, and she was kind enough to allow me to hang around long enough
00:08:36.400to become comfortable with the idea of religion again and with the idea that I'm part of something
00:08:46.600bigger than myself and that I'm part of something really important. I hung around the AFA for
00:08:54.740probably about a year before i actually joined the afa um which i you know is something that i'm i'm
00:09:00.580really grateful i was allowed to do uh after i joined i was a i guess a regular member for
00:09:09.140for a few years i remember coming to all kinds of different events and i was the nerd with the
00:09:14.500backpack and the notebook going to all the different lectures and trying to learn as much as i could
00:09:20.420um and uh fast forward a few years um i was i was asked to be a folk builder by patricia again
00:09:29.480and at first i said no i didn't really like having to follow instructions or um you know i i wasn't
00:09:37.860ready to be part of a team i guess um i was out there you know hosting some meetups and and trying
00:09:43.860to promote our religion um but i was still doing it the cliff way just the cliff way because i
00:09:53.140again i was coming from a history of having known everything in the world and that's something
00:09:58.340that's tough to get over um anyway i i eventually realized that being part of a team of people
00:10:07.060people that have got your back and that have the same fundamental ethics as you and that are never
00:10:15.700going to quit you know no matter how many victories you have and no matter how many defeats you have
00:10:21.120because it's a long long fight that we're in it's a long game that we're in however you want to
00:10:28.320phrase that um and uh so i i became a folk builder which just made everything that i'd been trying to
00:10:36.240do a lot easier. Suddenly, I had the resources of the Ashtore Folk Assembly behind me, and
00:10:42.480I was able to get word out about things that I was hosting to a much wider audience, and
00:10:50.420things picked up from there. And I've been involved in the AFA ever since. It's how I
00:11:01.060met my wife. It's the reason I have a family. I'm definitely a lifer, and I'm really proud to
00:11:10.020be able to help bring new people in and to help make this something that lasts forever.
00:11:18.760And hopefully the rain's not too loud. Of course, it is raining here with my garage roof over me.
00:11:25.360Well, you know, real quick, we've got a couple of questions coming up on the side. First,
00:11:29.460people are commenting they enjoy your beard cliff oh thank you me too so uh reuben asks wait was that
00:11:38.100the warrior ost i'm not sure what the ost is i know that theme music was a tune called legionnaire
00:11:45.620um alister asks is there any plans to update the website we have the perfect guest to answer that
00:11:51.060question for you cliff take it away sure well i mean we're we're constantly updating the website
00:11:56.580and we have websites for the hoffs um if you mean a total redesign just because then no um
00:12:06.340you know it does its job right now and you know we're always open to suggestions feel free to
00:12:12.980to email us if there's certain things you'd like to see um but uh it it gets our message
00:12:19.220out and stability is really important and continuity is really important but we're
00:12:23.460open to ideas but not just for the fun of it all right well so also a quick a cliff question cliff
00:12:31.220are you from pa yes yes i am born and raised he has transversed the state now though it's true
00:12:40.740it's true yeah i was in southeast pennsylvania pennsylvania now i'm way up in uh in northwest
00:12:45.700pennsylvania by lake erie so you told folks a little bit about how you got involved in the afa
00:12:51.620And, you know, even from those early, you know, backpack nerd days or whatever, Pat always had her eye on you and said you were going to do big things.
00:13:00.260And she, you know, she was spooky that way, but she was absolutely correct.
00:13:03.400yeah uh patricia was really influential in i think the way that um i developed as an ossature
00:13:13.040and in uh you know keeping the pressure on for me to get involved in the afa in a larger capacity
00:13:20.920than i was willing to at the time i'm glad she saw some potential in me to to do those kind of
00:13:27.720things um she she's one of the reasons that i i started to develop a more spiritual approach to
00:13:34.740asatru it may sound strange because it's a religion so why would i have to develop a
00:13:38.280spiritual approach to it but um you know i'm a lot more comfortable in not that i'm good at
00:13:45.980these things but where i get excited and what i'm comfortable with is you know history and
00:13:51.700archaeology genealogy and ancestry um which are close to being the same thing but not always
00:13:58.660exactly um linguistics things of that nature uh you know studying all the stuff you can find in
00:14:06.420the book but that isn't actually asitru it's um all the stuff that can support our knowledge about
00:14:13.060asitru it can it informs what we do it's really important um it's part of our history and our
00:14:18.580culture um but it's not actually worshiping the gods it's not the gift exchange that we always
00:14:26.900talk about it's not developing a relationship with my own ancestors that have passed on
00:14:33.540uh so patricia got me and others but patricia was was closest to me so i had the most experience
00:14:40.740with her and uh as far as why why also true matters not just to me but why me being an
00:14:51.380ossature matters to my deceased ancestors now not just when they were alive why it matters to
00:14:58.740you know our our descendants that are going to follow us in the next and the 100th generation
00:15:06.180from now and how we're our folk as a collect as a whole and each one of us individually are
00:15:17.380proof of the gods in and of itself that we as a noble people and as a people that can understand
00:15:28.320And, you know, in the limited way that we as humans can understand the gods, our confirmation that they exist.
00:15:37.660And that's the sort of stuff that you can't write a thesis about and prove that that sort of circular thinking is real.
00:15:51.480So many people, when they're just getting involved in this, don't get it.
00:15:56.120And it's I mean, it's even hard to explain on here, but until you experience something spiritual, it's very easy to think that that preliminary, you know, study, if you will, is is the be all end all until you've until you've gone to that next level.
00:16:12.600And so it's really hard if nobody's taking a shot to participate for them to to get that feeling or to really understand the meat and the meat and taters of what we're saying here.
00:16:24.020But I encourage everybody who's listening to this to go out and don't don't just learn about it.
00:16:30.200Absolutely learn about it. But, you know, once you've once you've done some of that, go out and be part of it and experience it.
00:16:37.440And there's you'll see the difference because it's really profound.
00:16:41.260You know, another another thing that a lot of people don't understand is there was a there was a whole lot of work to be done when I first became all Saria Goethe back in 2016.
00:16:54.280And, you know, I really I needed a whole bunch of people to help me.
00:16:58.320There was enormous shoes to fill and a lot of important stuff for us to do.
00:17:03.580And, you know, select handful of people.
00:17:08.840um so much behind the scenes on how we constructed our messaging on the update that we did to the
00:17:16.700declaration of purpose and the statement of ethics you were you were very significantly
00:17:21.620involved in that certainly the the statement of ethics um tell folks a little bit about that if
00:17:26.900you would sure um I mean I remember when you know our founder Stephen McNallan um announced that he
00:17:34.580going to be retiring and turning the responsibility, the role, the title of Alshir Goethe over to you,
00:17:43.860Matt. And I don't think I was alone. It was scary. There had never been modern Ossitru or an Ossitru
00:17:52.260folk assembly without Stephen McNallan at the helm. And we really didn't know what we were going to
00:18:00.180do there there was a moment of panic i think okay steve's retiring what are what are we going to do
00:18:06.900and you know we knew we weren't going to quit but we really had no idea if we were going to see
00:18:13.540you know a whole bunch of people leave because you know it you know when you know when ozzy
00:18:19.940quit black sabbath it wasn't the same right so um we we weren't sure and so we we did our best and
00:18:28.100And I think we did a pretty good job looking back on it now, but it wasn't a sure thing at the time.
00:18:32.400We did our best to make sure that, like I was referring to with the website, that there was continuity and stability.
00:18:39.220And at the same time, we were able to take the opportunity to bring new blood and to bring some new people into prominent roles and to, you know, guiding the AFA where we knew that it could go from the foundation that Stephen and others around him, Sheila especially, had built.
00:19:03.140and um you asked me to uh to revamp the statement of ethics because we had as folk builders um
00:19:11.540and of course you were a gothi at this point as well but when i met you i think you were still
00:19:15.900just a folk builder just a folk builder it's an important thing but you hadn't been ordained yet
00:19:20.220and um we we had various experiences where you know we had people that were
00:19:26.920confused about what the Ossachou Folk Assembly stood for and about what Ossachou was even,
00:19:35.260you know, about what our folk meant. And, you know, there were various phrases that were used
00:19:44.460that we decided to get rid of, you know, Northern European people or Northern European descended
00:19:51.720people I think was a very very prominent in the uh the original language that we were revamping
00:19:57.500and you know we we made the decision to just say white because that's what we meant and you know
00:20:04.920that was almost scary in and of itself because you say that word and you get accused of being
00:20:11.040things and people don't know what they're talking about of course because they've never met us or
00:20:16.020attempted to understand our religion or anything like that but we had people that were confused
00:20:21.520you know, about what we were doing and what our intentions were and who our gods were.
00:20:30.220And so it was really important for us to, I guess, just simplify the language, really.
00:20:37.420You know, if you can take a three word phrase and turn it into a single word,
00:20:42.860then you're being more direct. And that's what we tried to do.
00:20:46.240Well, so I think it's a good time to mention this. A lot of the time folks wonder, you know,
00:20:54.580why we use the word white. And they almost take, you know, white as fighting words. If you say
00:20:59.940white, you must be, you know, adversarial to someone. And this may be of interest to our0.73
00:21:06.480international audience. I've seen a couple of people in the chat room that aren't in the United
00:21:10.400States. Certainly here in the United States, we're all very, very used to filling out surveys
00:21:16.560or applications or, you know, questionnaires. And they always ask your race on there. And
00:21:24.120there's various other descriptors, but we all know what white means. And people were genuinely
00:21:30.600confused at the time about Northern European heritage. You know, if they were one small
00:21:35.300fragment of some northern european heritage but predominantly something else they would never
00:21:41.300click white on their on their job application or on you know a medical form we all know what
00:21:48.260that means and it has a value so that's the only reason we used it is to be absolutely clear it's
00:21:53.540never been something we've wanted to do to trick anybody or to you know play those games to sound
00:22:00.020nice and have people here under false pretenses or spending their energy with us if we weren't
00:22:08.000really the right fit for them or really a place they wanted to be putting in their energy. So
00:22:12.700it was more about being honest and being clear and upfront. We've got a couple of questions I
00:22:17.560noticed over in the side. If you guys want to make sure your questions get asked, a really good thing
00:22:22.200to use is entropy. If we could throw up the entropy link, that would be awesome to see you
00:22:26.960guys there uh also to throw us a little bit of money if you'd like to for donations we've got a
00:22:33.540number of projects coming up i think some of those cliff and i'll talk about here in a little bit
00:22:37.440but over on entropy you can you can do that or do a super chat and throw some throw some money at us
00:22:43.820to get questions answered i promise i'll answer your questions regardless but donations are always
00:22:48.720appreciated uh reuben asks what is the biggest change inside the afa if any you two perceive
00:22:57.200from your original days uh compared to now and do you see some kind of evolution or improvement
00:23:03.760i'm going to go ahead and talk because i get to and then cliff gets the leftovers which is
00:23:07.920unfortunate i think a lot of these things cliff and i would both see but i think some of them
00:23:12.720maybe more personal than others. Certainly, what I have seen overall is a very significant movement
00:23:24.200away from a kind of a, I don't want to diminish it, but early on there was very much a group
00:23:35.560camp out feel a membership charitable organization feel and the afa is really involved as a religious
00:23:44.200body as a church in our time um i've also really enjoyed seeing the increase in women and in
00:23:52.840families cliff and i have both benefited from that we both met and met our wives and built a family
00:24:00.200within the AFA. When we were first coming around, it was a whole lot of guys and not a lot of ladies,
00:24:08.280certainly not a lot of kids. And now if you look at any of our group pictures, it's full of ladies
00:24:13.400and kids. I can't think of the last time we've had a picture that didn't either have a baby in arms
00:24:19.180or a pregnant lady prominently in the picture. So the families, that's been huge. I think overall,
00:24:26.500there's just a big increase in maturity and piety I'd say within the AFA what do you think Cliff
00:24:33.060yeah absolutely I mean the the demographics of our membership are a lot healthier and more balanced
00:24:41.100there were a few times at winter nights that you know I I jotted down this is when I was really
00:24:48.180excited about it because it had just changed I still am but it was new and you know we we had
00:24:54.780of a good breakdown of married couples and men and women and children whereas when i first was
00:25:03.100coming around to things in you know like 10 or 12 years ago it was almost all guys
00:25:12.940we we've matured a lot as you mentioned there used to be there used to be a lot more drinking
00:25:20.620There used to be a lot more kind of LARP-y kind of stuff.
00:25:23.280There would be people wearing furs or weird hats.
00:25:27.780That was part of this fringe religion at the time.
00:45:07.680Also, this is a really good time to plug the Osset Shrew Academy
00:45:10.980because when my son and daughter are old enough,
00:45:14.500they will absolutely be enrolled in that.
00:45:16.940It is, for those who aren't familiar, a home school program for your AFA member children and for anyone that wants their children to be raised.
00:45:30.160Also true. And it's going to be issuing diplomas.
00:45:36.480It's you know, it's there's the logo. I love that.
00:45:38.920Um, it is, it's, it's a real school. It gives you somebody to work with and to have, um, daily lesson plans to guide you through homeschooling. Um, it's, it's a scary prospect when Katie and I look into that, the amount of things that are required in some states, um, can be intimidating and it's tempting to say, oh, you know what?
00:46:04.680we're not going to do that. It's a lot of work. We'll just ship them off to the Tommy farm. But
00:46:10.240we're not going to do that. And it's really nice to know that there will be other students enrolled
00:46:17.140that they can interact with and learn from and learn with, that there will be a collection of
00:46:23.240parents that are involved in it as well. And Gauthier Rob is absolutely doing a fantastic job
00:46:31.200putting that program together and you know i'm excited to be able to observe it and to help in
00:46:38.000any way i can as that first class kicks off in september and i'm looking forward to it i guess
00:46:43.600it'll be the third enrollment class that uh that my son will be eligible for um and yeah i mean
00:46:51.280those are those are the benefits um and you know i i guess i i expect my children to find their
00:46:59.680mates in the afa as well um you know the the way something i wanted to touch on i'll just go into
00:47:07.440a tangent here is how it's good it's generally speaking good to be normal um that's why
00:47:16.400we dress nice when we go to worship that's why we do good things for our neighbors where our
00:47:23.040hoffs are and it's why all of us should do that where we live you want to be a good member of
00:47:29.360your community and something that christianity provided for centuries for our folk and did a
00:47:37.360good job of there's other issues about it that maybe are problematic but something that christianity
00:47:42.320was really good at and that the austria folk assembly is good at and needs to be good at to
00:47:49.040to really be serving our folk well is providing that communal touchstone for our people if our
00:47:56.560people um have some place they can go where they know that the people there are trustworthy and
00:48:05.040share the same values as them and that by default you're comfortable with your kids being around
00:48:12.160and that is where families are born. That's winning. That's victory.
00:48:23.700So Cliff, you touched on something very important that I'm so, so proud of. We've heard this from
00:48:28.740a lot of our parents and being a father myself, I feel this way. It's scary to have your kids
00:48:38.060unattended at any time in this world we live in. But something magical happens when you're at an
00:48:44.400AFA event. When you're one of our Hoffs, all of a sudden you're in this high trust environment of
00:48:51.120people who share the same background, the same values. And a lot of that fear is alleviated.
00:48:58.800We have a whole community looking out for our kids whenever there's an AFA gathering. And it's
00:49:04.320it's really a beautiful thing to see. So yeah, parents, you know, please know that you're very
00:49:11.220welcome to bring your kids to our events. They're full of kids, and everybody there is looking out
00:49:16.640for our kids' best interest. Folk the Rude donated $25 to us. Thank you so much, Folk. We absolutely
00:49:24.620appreciate it. We're filling up with questions for you, Cliff. People like you turn out to be
00:49:30.720pretty good guest so brandy says winton erickson uh what do you feel your most spiritually powerful
00:49:38.400moment event or bloat has been since you joined the az true folk assembly
00:49:46.480well there have been a few that really stuck with me but i i'd say probably the most significant one
00:49:55.840was actually one that i did in private but i did it at the direction of um patricia and
00:50:03.120i'm glad we kind of are able to come back to this because ancestor worship is really important in
00:50:11.760true um and before i wrapped my head around the whole spirituality of it and i
00:50:18.480you know uh wasn't comfortable using the word worship or religion or church which i understand
00:50:25.280is something that people need to go through.
00:50:27.440It's part of the process of, you know, of developing and, you know,
00:50:34.900the term reprogramming is used a lot as far as what we were taught growing up,
00:50:40.960which is, you know, obviously a generalization.
00:50:43.100But I was having trouble, like I was going through the motions, right?
00:50:48.220I would go to a bloat and I would say the words
00:50:52.040and i would take the horn and drink from it it was i was following the formula i was going through
00:50:58.200the motions because that's that's where i started i was gonna do the deeds first and let the faith
00:51:04.360come afterwards that's i'm a catholic that's how it works and i was a catholic was a catholic and um
00:51:12.360so i'm going through you know the rituals and you know it was at first i was it was it was a very
00:51:23.240strange feeling i'm like okay i'm doing this is that feeling you know the hand of a god on my
00:51:30.200shoulder or is that just the incense um what what's going on and uh my my friend and mentor patricia
00:51:39.000told me well if it's if it's feeling disconnected when you're trying to make a bloat to odin or thor
00:51:47.240or frigga or freya try making a bloat to one of your ancestors that's passed away that you knew
00:51:58.280while they were alive and um so i did i i made a bloat to my grandpa harvey who had passed away
00:52:06.280only a few years earlier and um something patricia told me as well is make sure that whatever you
00:52:12.040give them that it's something you know they like this isn't you know you're not guessing here you
00:52:18.120knew this person for real so you know what they like and it doesn't matter what it is because
00:52:24.360it's a personal gift from you to them and um i may be about to offend some people here but
00:52:31.640my grandpa harvey loved hawaiian pizza and i know that's a controversial topic
00:52:36.760um but so i i took a a good slice of hawaiian pizza no dominoes i i got it from a real italian
00:52:45.000grease pit um in in the philly area because we have good pizza around there another controversial
00:52:52.040topic but um you know i i made this offering to my grandpa and i spoke to him the way that i would
00:53:02.840have when he was alive and i left him the uh the the the slice of hawaiian pizza and uh a soda pop
00:53:14.200and i called it soda pop don't call it soda pop on a daily basis but he was from south dakota
00:53:19.480and he called it that so um i left those for him and
00:53:27.320that one felt real that when i knew that by doing this gift exchange you can have a real
00:53:40.120living relationship with with spirits um and the gods are a kind of spirit and they are
00:53:49.080are our ancestors um the god i mean my belief in it is that the gods are our most ancient ancestors
00:53:58.440and i believe that they are literally alive right now and that they are literal literally alive in
00:54:07.800our blood and in our dna there is a chain reaction that started with boor and bury and odin
00:54:19.080that has never stopped to this day we're all still moving and breathing because of the energy
00:54:27.640that happened then and there's a real physical connection to our gods and goddesses through
00:54:40.020our our ancestors and it's a it's a responsibility that i take seriously too because once once i
00:54:47.880I came to this kind of realization that the gods are alive and that my ancestors are alive and
00:54:55.440that there's this unbroken chain of events that connects me to them directly, I realized that I'm
00:55:03.200part of that chain too. And that for my son and for his great, great, great grandson, that if I
00:55:10.640don't keep that gift exchange going and that if i don't um do right by them that not that they
00:55:20.240can't fix it but that they're at a disadvantage because of things that i did or did not do and
00:55:26.400it's it's an awesome responsibility it's also an awesome blessing because i'm the benefactor
00:55:32.480of all those good things that my ancestors did or said and i inherit
00:55:40.000some of the you know repercussions of the bad things that they did that is
00:55:46.800that's really foundational to the way that also true and also true approach the world
00:55:51.760i referred to that germanic world view earlier and that's a big part of it
00:55:55.280Absolutely. Thank you very much for sharing that story with us. It's really personal. And I think
00:56:02.680a lot of people had their first real spiritual experience in Alcetru by connecting with an
00:56:12.420ancestor, especially one that they knew, they got to know while that person was living.
00:56:17.900Keeping that connection through the veil is so very strong when it's somebody that you actually
00:56:24.600got a chance to know uh during life so daniel asks you mentioned meeting your wife in the afa
00:56:32.440can you tell us how that happened and its impact as far as growing within the austro family or
00:56:37.480within an outsider family and how it how is it as a family uh being in a leader so i'm gonna assume
00:56:47.320that's for you cliff so go ahead and break it down for us sure so i stalked her for a while
00:56:57.320no not seriously a little bit but um i was persistent uh katie's a shy person and so i had to
00:57:07.800be assertive in courting her um to the point that i told her i am courting you
00:57:14.200and uh you know she she was kind enough to let me take her on a date and um we we had a good time
00:57:22.680and it was a long distance relationship not as long as uh matt and mandy's was ours was a couple
00:57:28.440of hours rather than a couple of 12-hour flights but um uh when we when we would go on dates early
00:57:38.840on it you know it was two hours one way so we would you know make a weekend of it so there'd
00:57:44.280be these big gaps of time in between when we were together um in person and you know we would do
00:57:49.960facebook because we hadn't been kicked off of that yet and we would um text and all that stuff um and
00:57:57.080then when we got our quality time in it you know it was really it was great i mean i don't know how
00:58:06.040else i can describe it you know we we had lots of time and long car rides to discuss what our
00:58:12.440beliefs were um so you know we discussed asatru we discussed politics we discussed what our
00:58:20.920vision for ourselves and a family would be we we had like some serious dates we talked about
00:58:26.600everything that we ever would want to do um but it was good because we agreed on 99 of it and um
00:58:36.040And that was really important to, you know, us deciding that we were going to, you know, be mates for life and get married and have children and all the rest of it.
00:58:47.140I'm lucky that I was able to meet Katie in the National Court Assembly for a few reasons.
00:58:54.060One is just that, you know, Katie had joined the AFA not long before all of this.
00:58:58.940And I'm glad I was able to scoop her up before somebody else did, because they would have.
00:59:03.920um also because my my my friends including patricia and uh and dan um from my kindred
00:59:12.840had had encouraged me not only to ask katie out specifically but to not settle um and you know go
00:59:22.920go fishing in the wiccan pond um because that was advice that was out there back in the old days0.94
00:59:28.820that oh yeah you know you're a viking man so go raid the english village essentially um1.00
00:59:35.860but it's bad advice um the english are just fine but the wiccans um are are misguided um because0.99
00:59:42.820the the ethical foundations just aren't there um so if you're a single man or a single woman out
00:59:50.660there and you know you're you're looking to find someone to start a family with be patient and and
01:00:00.660find them within the afa um i know that you can't control all of that you could have the plan to
01:00:07.700marry an afa member and then you're at the library one day and that lovey music plays like in the
01:00:13.300movies and then history is written but as far as like the things that you do proactively to
01:00:20.660to try to find love um be the best person you can in person for everyone to see in the afa
01:00:34.480and everywhere else you go you know if you are a decent and respectable person um walking down
01:00:40.720main street or um you know walking wherever it is that you are people will see that and that's
01:00:47.600especially true in the afa and i can i can um i can say that i know secondhand but from more than
01:00:55.520one of our afa ladies that they are well aware of who the men of worth are in the ostrich folk
01:01:01.980assembly so if you make sure that you um build your own bright fame and do good things for your
01:01:09.540folk the ladies are going to hook you up with somebody that's going to work itself out um
01:01:15.660there was a second part to that question and i have forgotten it but i think that's good
01:01:21.400yeah no that was that was really good um and the point you make about building your reputation
01:01:26.700within the afa it's nice to when you're trying to build your life with someone it's great to
01:01:34.480have all that commonality but also for people to judge you on the right kind of criteria and i
01:01:43.120think the AFA provides that. Ruben donated $10 to us. Thank you so much, Ruben. And he had a
01:01:48.940question. In the hyperpolarized America of today, the AFA has done a tremendous job of avoiding
01:01:54.800confrontations, always staying calm and cool. Do you ever receive some kind of, I was wrong about
01:02:01.740you guys? Absolutely we do, Ruben. One of the things that I'm really fortunate to see being in
01:02:08.940the AFA for as long as I've been, a whole lot of members that leave under misunderstandings
01:02:15.820or the world turns them around, those folks come back. A surprising amount of those folks come
01:02:23.860back. Sometimes we have the opportunity, we certainly see in the communities, every community
01:02:32.720we have a Hoff in that folks, you know, may make an initial judgment of us based on the sensational
01:02:40.460journalism. But we've had several instances of those people apologizing or, you know, changing
01:02:47.840their opinion from, you know, being one of the town gossips saying negative things about us to
01:02:52.600coming by and shaking our hand and touring a Hoff and really appreciating what we do in the community.
01:02:58.720Specifically, there was a group, I talked to Brandy about this last week, there was a group
01:03:03.040in and around Murdoch, the Murdoch Alliance Against Hate or something that took to persecuting
01:03:10.840us early on because they believed the hype. And there was a reporter up there that was intentionally
01:03:15.580trying to stoke hate, ironically, against us. This member of that, the founding member of that
01:03:24.700Murdoch Alliance Against Hate actually came to the Hoff and apologized and said that they were
01:03:30.340wrong about us. So that does happen, not as often as we'd like, but hopefully in the years to come,
01:03:35.480that'll increase how much that happens. We've got another, Bobby donated $20 to us. Thank you so
01:03:44.900much, Bobby. Matt wins the next visit to Thor's Hoff because he just finished a batch of that
01:03:50.280apple pie. And he also says he's loving the weekly interviews. Well, I'm glad that you like
01:03:55.060them, Bobby. I hope everybody likes them. These are a lot of fun. I love doing them. And I really
01:03:59.760like that we get to shine a light on some of our folks making this happen, besides just me.
01:04:06.460Next visit to Thorshof. You never know. There's always stuff that comes up for sure by Ostara,
01:04:12.460but I would suggest that you, if you can, get a ride and make it down to the Njordshof dedication
01:04:18.380coming up in a couple of weeks it would be great to see you there if you could do it um cliff
01:04:23.900which translation uh translation of the edits do you recommend i'm old school i like bellows
01:34:35.680And then the fruits of that, it took a few years, but once, you know, I met Katie and had a family and everything that's come from me being in the AFA, you know, it's really given some confidence that, you know, whether they think it's a real religion or not, you know, they know that it's good for me.
01:35:00.120And that's good enough for me. I think, you know, if you're trying to explain it to somebody who doesn't get polytheism, you know, if you're talking to an Abrahamist and all they know about is Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and that's all the religion they've ever heard of in their whole life.
01:35:21.240um you can remind them that you know every people on the face of the planet earth through all of
01:35:30.600time has had a natural religion um the only one that was abrahamic was the israelite religion
01:35:39.160everyone else and and theirs is i would say a folk religion and everyone else has a folk religion
01:35:44.620an ethnic religion that their people had before they can remember time it's just always been there
01:35:53.820the you know shinto um yoruba the various native american religions every people that you can think
01:36:03.120of has something that they did natively before some christians or muslims came along and changed
01:36:10.840that in almost all cases um and if they can understand native american religion or if they
01:36:18.640understand shinto even you know not deeply just that it exists and it's a real religion
01:36:23.920then you can kind of explain what you're doing it's like what's kind of like that but different
01:36:31.720of course and with a european germanic context to it and like matt said the starting with your
01:36:41.240ancestors is really important if you know in two words if you have to describe ositru ancestor
01:36:48.440worship is a good go-to they may not understand why you're doing it but they'll at least conceptually
01:36:55.320understand what it is you know i found that that's really interesting it's kind of to the
01:37:00.760the point and kind of an aside. I always love when I go into Asian restaurants or Asian businesses
01:37:06.460because very often right at their front counter, they'll have an ancestor's altar. They may have
01:37:13.340an altar to one of their native gods. They have an altar to their ancestors. A Thai restaurant
01:37:19.940down the road, the guy has an altar also to the king of Thailand. So what I've seen the most
01:37:25.420acceptance from to our stuff and i've seen this when asians have um you know there was an anecdote
01:37:31.260a friend of mine had he had his family altar right by his doorway and when asians came and delivered
01:37:38.300his he was getting some chinese food they looked over at uh at the altar and this ah ancestor and
01:37:44.140they absolutely understood what that was going forward and i think people that are more connected
01:37:50.780with their indigenous faith would understand it easier but i always thought that was kind
01:37:55.100of a cool story and a cool um i don't know point of understanding if i might add something before
01:38:01.580we move on um something not to do when you're talking you know with a christian in particular
01:38:09.100especially if you know a christian that's your family member that you love and want to keep that
01:38:13.420relationship positive don't go on a rant about how awful christianity is even if you know all the
01:38:22.140reasons why that might be and can list them and you know that's a great conversation to have
01:38:27.900with other people who are also true or who have uh have moved away from you know monotheism like
01:38:37.580that but all it'll do is insult the person that you're talking to you want to be respectful
01:38:43.420And most of the time, people aren't ready to hear that something that they care about is, you know, maybe not good for them or not as good as something else might be.
01:38:56.440I mean, for me, when I, you know, left Christianity, that was a traumatic experience.
01:43:04.760As far as vetting on events, for people to attend events they're vouched for by an AFA member, the vast majority of folks at any of our events are members.
01:43:14.900um and we had a more mixed you know non-member crowd versus members when cliff and i first got
01:43:20.740involved but these days it's almost all members with a couple of folks that are vouched for and
01:43:25.700vouched for means that that member keeps an eye on them that member lets us know so that the rest
01:43:31.460of us there while welcoming them and introducing them and getting to know things we also keep an
01:43:36.100eye to make sure everybody's safe but that's worked out very well from for us um it's been
01:43:43.380a long time since we've had any kind of an incident um only incidents we've had i mean
01:43:48.580we've had people that have drank too much in the past and then our leaders have stepped right in
01:43:53.060to ask them to go on their way um so yeah i would encourage you to come out i'd encourage you to
01:43:59.140bring your family out and i can guarantee you that the leadership that are there will absolutely keep
01:44:04.180an eye and do their great best to make sure you guys have a great time and are safe any any thoughts
01:44:09.540on that, Cliff? You covered it pretty well. It's a balancing act, right? We need to protect
01:44:18.760our members and their families. That's the number one priority. But the mission of the
01:44:24.860Asatru Folk Assembly is the promotion and the dissemination of the religion of Asatru. And
01:44:30.600You can't do that privately without meeting people for real.
01:44:35.760So, I mean, there's risk involved with meeting anyone new.
01:44:42.240You know, people in theory could lie to us or whatever.
01:44:47.500But I don't think any more dangerous than going to the mall or going to, you know, see the races or something like that.
01:44:55.740You know, I'd say much less so because we do have eyes that are there looking out.0.98
01:45:00.600It's a group to where we know who's there that's not one of our regulars, and we are keeping that eye out always.
01:45:08.900That vigilance is always there for our folk.
01:45:12.320Son of Woden, thank you very much for your donation.
01:46:55.540um so for those who don't know what half taller is it is percentage based based contribution to
01:47:02.260the ossaroo folk assembly and um it comes from uh scandinavian or norse um for half toll literally
01:47:12.280a toll that you pay when you go to the half um like a half tax i guess you could say and um it
01:47:19.800is the best way to contribute to the the Asshu folk assembly um Alshir Gothi Matt likes to say
01:47:29.000that's the christians give ten percent that's why they can have nice things they have gold in their
01:47:34.440temples so um you know we we ask for a minimum contribution of one percent if you are interested
01:47:42.760in doing that you want to contact your folk builder um your local folk builder or your
01:47:49.000your favorite go through your githia and ask anyone in leadership and we can get you started
01:47:52.520on that we will accept pretty much any method for contributing that but some of the easiest ones
01:48:01.000are direct deposit if your employer supports it and you get a regular paycheck that does
01:48:07.640direct deposit many but not all employers are set up to let you allocate that direct deposit
01:48:14.200to more than one account based on percentages um that is a super easy way to do it and you can go
01:48:21.240in you know if your company uses adp or something like that and just adjust the percentages when
01:48:27.720you get a raise you can up it if you have hard times you can lower it all we ask is that you
01:48:32.520keep it at one or better um if um that's not something that you can do you can just you know
01:48:39.560know estimate it do it at tax time and figure out what one percent of that would be or whatever
01:48:44.860percentage you decide to go with and then do that you know as a recurring e-check or credit card
01:48:53.180or debit card payment and your your folk builder will guide you through the process for that
01:48:57.680if you attend the hoff regularly bring a stack of cash we'll record it um the the basic the
01:49:06.400important thing about half taller is that uh it does end up um numerically being generally more
01:49:14.160than uh people who are on you know the the subscription-based memberships which helps
01:49:19.200us achieve our goals obviously you know our our mission as a church is religious and spiritual
01:49:26.720but to really implement all of that we need funds and assets so that we can acquire hoffs most
01:49:35.760importantly, so that we can, you know, fund the events that we have in advance. You know, we have
01:49:42.460to spend several thousand dollars before anyone shows up, you know, to do one of the events at
01:49:47.680one of the Hoffs, the big ones, or, you know, at some camp or something if we're in a region where
01:49:53.420there's not a Hoff yet. And it helps provide for other services. The Asatru Academy, for example,
01:50:01.580we are not charging any of the families of those students that is a free service for parents to
01:50:09.100have children that are in the afa we you know use the funds to help make sure that our gothar can
01:50:16.220get to our folk when they have a need for them to be there if it's a funeral or a wedding or
01:50:22.940a baby naming we're going to make sure that we make a go through or get the available to you
01:50:28.860among many other things. Now's probably a good time for me to just mention, if nobody asked
01:50:37.040about it, our folk services program. It's one of the things that has been around in the Ossetree
01:50:42.760Folk Assembly since I joined, and it's really, really important. You know, for those who don't
01:50:50.020know what that is, if an AFA member has some struggle or hard time in their life, we have got
01:50:56.960your back. We have helped people who had, you know, some kind of flooding and it damaged their
01:51:04.660computer and they, you know, work from home and their computer was their livelihood. And,
01:51:09.020you know, $500 means that they get a paycheck for the rest of you. And if, you know, we can do that
01:51:16.120kind of thing for someone if they have a need for that. We've had people who've had medical issues
01:51:20.500or who have had um you know a loss of employment or or other struggles and um we take our end and
01:51:30.100guard seriously um which is why we need everyone who is not struggling to be chipping in so that
01:51:36.580we can achieve our goals but also so that we can take care of our people when a need rises well
01:51:42.500there's something else i wanted to mention while we're talking about you know the different uh
01:51:46.180funding things and different causes that we you know use those funds on another thing that we
01:51:52.100have that you guys can feel free to donate to is uh i'm sure great many of you guys are aware
01:52:01.540of the atrocities that have been going on pretty steadily in south africa targeted at uh at our
01:52:07.940people at people who share our same ethnicity and they've been targeted largely because of their
01:52:13.940ethnicity um so we we saw this we don't know how to fix it we don't know how to fix everything
01:52:21.860but we know what we couldn't do was doing nothing so what can we do well um every quarter we we0.74
01:52:29.860pull together those donations and we send them to an organization the south uh it has traditionally
01:52:35.860been the South African Family Relief Project. And that gets, most often we donate towards their
01:52:44.560grocery list, towards their food. So that feeds a lot of poor and struggling South African white
01:52:51.880folks that have found themselves marginalized at this time and have trouble feeding their families.
01:52:58.080So we're really proud to be able to be part of trying to make that a little bit better.
01:53:03.060um can't make the whole situation better but we can can make some folks eat a little bit easier
01:53:08.220and that's uh that's always a really special thing so thank you for everybody who's contributed to
01:53:13.020that thank you for everybody that donates the afa in general we appreciate you guys
01:53:17.700everybody who's paying by hoftoller thank you um you know we ask one percent for hoftoller
01:53:25.980but very often we have folks that give you know much higher than that so we appreciate it
01:53:31.560The big theme is not paying membership dues to a club to where you are exchanging money for a service. That's not what we're doing. We're donating to our church, to our gods.
01:53:46.600this is a this is an act of of giving and of sharing with your faith community
01:53:53.140not of of paying for a service and we really want to get that mindset in with folks and the more
01:54:00.820we've done it not just financially but with the afa culture it's it's moved us in a really really
01:54:06.700good direction um is there a roundabout way we can know how much more is needed i sent ten dollars
01:54:14.300for Frase Hoff as soon as it was mentioned and would gladly send more. So the first leg of the
01:54:20.100Frase Hoff endeavor is to pay off New York's Hoff. I think the number for a payoff on New York's
01:54:29.160Hoff at present is somewhere around 155,000. As far as in order to start on Frase Hoff,
01:54:40.840our current level of donation needs to increase by about 24 percent now that includes growth in
01:54:49.020numbers this year compared to last year we're up 14 percent membership wise so you know however
01:54:55.360that works but those are some of the numbers we're looking at when we look at purchasing phrase off
01:54:59.500it's it's really tricky when you look at when you look at properties we have purchased one of our
01:55:06.220Hoffs for $45,000 and another one for, I believe, $230,000. So that can be kind of all over the
01:55:19.680map. But those are the best I can do on numbers, and those are as close as I know them to be.
01:55:26.280Another question is, why does the AFA focus on built Hoffs? Why not start with sacred groves
01:55:32.780or circles would it not be cheaper to buy undeveloped land well first certainly it would
01:55:39.020be it would be much cheaper to buy undeveloped land um but we've had sacred circles and sacred
01:55:47.260groves for a very long time most of us when we started out set aside portions of our property
01:55:52.940for that purpose the evolution to having hoffs is the same reason that our ancestors built hoffs0.67
01:55:59.740the same reason that other um Aryan religions have always had temples when they're able
01:56:07.100um to build something first something serviceable where you can get in out of the weather
01:56:13.180into where you have a special set-aside space where people can gather and be you know separate
01:56:21.500from the elements has always been something nice that our folk have tried to do when they
01:56:25.420have the availability um also getting something grand to showcase the glory of our gods uh is
01:56:36.700really really important a half is very impressive and you know for the same reasons that an
01:56:42.540undeveloped plot of land is cheaper it's also less impressive i mean then another reason quite simply
01:56:48.860a house of worship is something. It looks like something. People recognize it as something.
01:56:56.420And Western mankind knows that that is where you go to worship whomever you worship.
01:57:04.620Having that for our gods, certainly they deserve it. And it puts our faith on
01:57:11.140a reasonable playing field with the other faiths that people are coming from and surround
01:57:17.940themselves with so i think it's it's very worthy of our gods to try to hold them you know to worship
01:57:23.460them at that standard and not in a primitive way you have anything to add on that cliff
01:57:30.980i don't know if it's an addition but um the the main reasons i think that we
01:57:35.380are targeting existing houses of worship churches all so far is accessibility and credibility
01:57:42.900asatru is a real religion but as a lot of you know not everyone who is not asatru shares that
01:57:50.760opinion so we we focus on making asatru a real religion even to people who do not practice asatru
01:58:01.120so that they see bouldershof and they know that that is a place of worship and they know why
01:58:07.320people go there um and accessibility is really important too a lot of cheap undeveloped land
01:58:13.640is in some remote county that nobody can get to and that doesn't really do most of our full
01:58:17.560county good we're trying to get as many people to be able to practice in a practical way um
01:58:25.000and you know that means churches in towns a lot more than it means you know a meadow on top of
01:58:31.320100 acre mountain or something absolutely so um all right i see the family first approach
01:58:40.200uh does the assembly have a moral ethical ethical view about homosexuality cliff said that wiccans
01:58:48.200don't have the same morality and sexual sexual immorality has kept me from pagan roots first
01:58:56.360absolutely we have a a moral and an ethical stance against homosexuality for a variety of reasons um0.84
01:59:06.360first and in a very basic way it does not further our folk it does not make children0.99
01:59:13.480it is askew from the natural order of things we worship the gods of order and we stand against0.96
01:59:20.120the forces of chaos and homosexuality is very much a a symptom or a an aspect of chaos1.00
01:59:31.880in a very real way um we believe strongly that homosexuality is a form of mental illness0.99
01:59:40.440and uh unfortunately it's been something that's been championed by certain elements in society0.86
01:59:46.200today so there's a lot of people who are very damaged that don't get treated and don't get help
01:59:53.160because they serve a use as a mascot for progressive causes and i think that's tragic0.90
02:00:00.840another thing is we want to keep our children safe and we believe certainly that male homosexuality
02:00:07.880is a very clear threat to our children. I'm not suggesting that every male homosexual0.95
02:00:17.320does anything wrong by children at all, but I think that the percentages speak for themselves0.97
02:00:24.200and it's a, when your mind is deviated in that way in a sexual way, we think that's unsafe for
02:00:33.240our kids and our families and i wouldn't want to expose any of our children to any predation or
02:00:39.320any of the consequences of that cliff do you have anything to add to that yeah check out our
02:00:45.800statement of ethics and read the family principle that is one of those things that we put some
02:00:52.840thought into making more clear for some of the reasons mentioned the uh the pagan umbrella we
02:01:00.360We are not part of that by the technical definition of pagans, as in, you know, European polytheists.
02:01:07.900Yes, we are that. But that's about as much as we share in common with those groups that I think you're worried about.
02:01:16.620We want our children to grow up to be mothers and fathers.
02:01:21.700Absolutely. How is a good way to discourage well-meaning Christians to refrain from1.00
02:01:32.300praying for you, hoping to not offend them? You know, I wouldn't encourage them not to pray for
02:01:43.000us. I think that's, I think most, well, you specified well-meaning Christians. If they
02:01:52.720mean well and they're concerned about us and they want to pray for us, that's between them and their
02:01:57.860God. I think we do better to not dissuade them from that and appreciate the goodwill that
02:02:06.700they're putting out. I don't think that they're, you know, they're praying to their God about us
02:02:11.880is going to put any kind of bad hoodoo on us. So I don't fear that. And I think that it's just a
02:02:17.960nicer thing to, you know, appreciate the thought and move on, move on to the next thing. What are
02:02:25.640your thoughts, Cliff? Very much the same. I don't discourage that. If somebody wants to give me
02:02:35.620some extra good spiritual points by having a God that I don't have a kinship relationship with
02:02:43.500throwing some goodwill my way. I don't feel like I'm tainted by that. I know for sure
02:02:50.920that they're not going to be able to pray their God into seducing me, especially if it's Christian,0.98
02:02:56.500because I'm well versed in that after 13 years of Catholic school. So, you know, my0.74
02:03:04.120uh my traumatic break with christianity was very permanent um and personal so you know um i as a
02:03:13.940side note i i do believe that that god is real i i believe that the gods of any ethnic religion
02:03:22.640are real and the christians of course aren't an ethnic religion but they're worshiping somebody
02:03:27.440else's ethnic god so um you know i don't think they're praying to nothing i just don't think
02:03:34.880it's going to be harmful to me i'm quite confident in uh in my relationship with my ancestors and my
02:03:42.080gods and another sort of side note i uh i had a kick for a few years where i would say gesundheit
02:03:49.760all the time instead of bless you and uh that just didn't sound very natural so i'm back to bless you
02:03:56.320there's nothing wrong with that we can uh you know we don't we don't need to offend people
02:04:02.960and if they want to send goodwill our way then great you know this is another thing that i want
02:04:08.960to bring up and it's not necessarily timely but every every year around uh yule we have
02:04:14.880concerns of you know people will take offense if somebody wishes you a merry christmas um
02:04:20.480Um, if people, if people with different belief systems than me wish me a happy anything,
02:04:28.740um, I think that the response is thank you and appreciating it. You know, I don't care if
02:04:34.540somebody, if somebody wants to tell me Merry Christmas, I appreciate it. If you want to tell
02:04:38.020me happy Hanukkah, it's a little bit odd, but sure. I appreciate it. You want to tell me happy
02:04:42.100Kwanzaa again, kind of strange, but okay. I think any, any gesture of, of goodwill is nice. And
02:04:50.440And I don't think, I think it's noble of us to accept that as it's intended, as opposed to,
02:04:57.300you know, be easily, easily to take offense. Are there AFA members in Finland or Estonia?
02:05:04.780Not at present. I would love to see that change though. If you find yourself there,
02:05:08.700you have family there that ought to join us, you know, send them over. We'd love to see that.
02:05:13.420I've got a question. How to make a donation? Right now, Nick is going to throw up a bunch
02:05:20.500of options on how to make donations. Any way you want is how to make a donation. We have
02:05:27.680a donate link to a number of specific AFA causes on our website, but we also have the
02:05:34.220general fund just donate button, and that's the easiest and most versatile way to donate
02:05:39.620to us um if you'd prefer to donate by check we could provide you an address for that if you want
02:05:46.580to donate by cash we can get you in touch with the closest folk builder folks have already done
02:05:52.340it during this broadcast if you want to donate money over on entropy that's a really nice way
02:05:56.820to donate to us as well but thank you for asking and thank you for you know wanting to donate it's
02:06:03.380much much appreciated um looks like last question here we have done exactly two hours i think this
02:06:12.420is the longest uh longest stream i've i've been a part of doing and uh really appreciate our amazing
02:06:20.020guest uh cliff for joining us daniel asks where do you guys see the afa in 10 years um
02:06:30.260um cliff go ahead and take this one first everywhere um no really uh i mean you know
02:06:39.120we're talking about half five but you know in private matt and i are talking about hoss 9 10
02:06:49.14011 and 12. um we're gonna keep pushing forward i mean i i don't know exactly how far into the
02:06:57.400list we'll get in 10 years time uh i would hope that we're talking about maybe nine by then that's
02:07:03.960a long time and if you think about you know we've got four done in six years is it and at an
02:07:14.320accelerating rate so that's possible um i i would like to see us with agothi or githia in every one
02:07:25.140of the u.s states and several in canada and europe as well um we have members internationally and we
02:07:36.020need to do a better job of serving them we do the best we can and they do a lot of hard work to make
02:07:40.820things happen but we certainly um want to grow our our our clergy our our gothar and githia to make
02:07:49.460sure that we can make practicing Ossetree more accessible to as many of our folk as possible.
02:07:59.20010 years is a long time. Also, when we get there, I'm going to say how quick it went, but
02:08:06.340something that I, it may be a little bit more than 10 years from now, but something that I'm
02:08:12.260really looking forward to as an eventual milestone um is when we have the first two afa babies
02:08:20.900marrying each other in one of our hofs that's going to be a big deal for me personally that
02:08:25.780will let me know that we have i guess passed on the torch at that point that the afa the
02:08:35.860the Ossetree Folk Assembly will truly be a multi-generational cultural institution for
02:08:43.640our folk, for Western people. And the, you know, if I get hit by a meteor and Matt gets hit by a
02:08:53.000meteor and Brandy gets hit by a meteor and, you know, lots of bad things happen that it's not
02:08:58.200going to stop because we want to get to a level of depth where, you know, all of us are kind of
02:09:10.380expendable in a way. And I don't mean that in the negative sense, but we need it to be that way.
02:09:15.320We need it to be so that if any one of us goes crazy and quits, that nothing changes, essentially,
02:09:24.940except that you know there's some hurt feelings um but yeah that's something i'm really looking
02:09:30.840forward to and we're we're just going to keep growing so we've got a got a lot of things we're
02:09:37.540working towards a lot of things planned some stuff i'm not ready to talk about right just yet
02:09:42.460but melinda and folk we're on the same page
02:09:46.680as far as a 10-year if you gave me 12 years i'd like to see the first graduate that's
02:09:54.880gone all the way through the AsaTru Academy, I think that'll be a big day for us. But that's
02:09:59.140two years beyond the scope of your question. Realistically, in 10 years, I would like to see
02:10:04.840Freyshoff and Tiershoff be a reality. And I would like to be well on the way or also having Braggieshoff.
02:10:17.060Like Cliff, you know, I'd love to see a broader disbursement of the AFA. I think we're doing
02:10:22.200great, but I would like to see a folk builder up in Alaska. I'd like to see somebody in0.92
02:10:28.280Hawaii. I'd like a folk builder in all of the United States states. I'd like at least a couple
02:10:35.560of folk builders in Canada by then. And I'd like to really revitalize our folk in Australia,
02:10:42.320New Zealand, South Africa, and in Europe. I'd like a folk builder in Australia and New Zealand
02:10:50.260and South Africa within 10 years. And I'd also like at least three more folk builders in Europe
02:10:56.800actively hosting things there. I mean, 10 years is not a whole lot of time, but I think we can do it
02:11:04.620within 10 years very reasonably. And that's certainly what we're shooting for. Within 10
02:11:11.900years, we're going to have a minimum of 10 years worth of curriculum added to the Astro Academy.
02:11:17.320but I think in 10 years we can get the whole K-312 done for us to a true academy. So that's
02:11:22.560what I'm going to try to hold us to and try to push on. That's kind of what I see the next 10
02:11:28.320years. Got a couple more questions popped up. If anybody has any last questions, go ahead and
02:11:34.140throw them in. It's been two hours and change, and we're probably going to wrap it up here pretty
02:11:40.400quick, but I appreciate you so much for being here and all the great interaction tonight.
02:11:44.860um i've been wondering for several days what is our version of bless me for when we sneeze or
02:11:53.100you know or is there nothing for it uh hard to pull myself away from it
02:11:57.760it being so ingrained cliff do you have thoughts on that yeah just say bless me or excuse me
02:12:04.160or gesundheit um you know i mean i mean i'm the one sneezing i say excuse me i don't know if
02:12:11.460that's proper etiquette or not, but that's what I do. And if somebody else sneezes, I'm going to
02:12:15.820say, bless you. I guess, you know, it depends on what you're going for. If you want to be in your
02:12:22.100face about it to people, you could say, God bless you and make it plural and, you know, turn everything
02:12:27.820into a wedge if you want to. But again, I would just be normal. That's not the sort of stuff that
02:12:36.300I would worry about. It's always strange when people want to, you know, add some Alistair
02:12:42.060Spice to common phraseology, or they'll, you know, feel the need to exclaim things like,
02:12:47.880buy Thor's beard. And it just sounds kind of goofy if you're doing it unironically.
02:12:56.260What do you say to people who are just out of Christian? I assume Christianity.0.65
02:13:00.880what I would say to the folks that are fresh out of Christianity
02:13:06.080search yourself now that Jesus is out of the picture and see if you still feel a strong
02:13:16.860spiritual need a strong spiritual calling I know that I did and what worked really well for me
02:13:23.500was positing and this goes for all people not just not just white folks what did your people have
02:13:30.680before Christianity. Cliff mentioned this earlier, but that's exactly what happened to me. When I
02:13:36.080left Christianity, I didn't leave for Ausitru. I left because I fundamentally didn't agree with0.98
02:13:43.040Christianity or their God. And so I was searching, what did my people have before Christianity?
02:13:51.340And that's what brought me to Ausitru. The other thing I'd say, if you're trying to pursue
02:13:57.560something new spiritually to open yourself up and to make that effort studying all day long
02:14:04.680is never religion it only becomes religion when it's practiced by that same token you can practice
02:14:13.160your religion on day one without feeling like you know everything or like you've done all of
02:14:17.880the study i think making simple offerings and opening yourself up to the gods that's the first
02:14:26.200step and it can be a really powerful experience or like cliff said opening yourself up to your
02:14:31.720ancestors and asking them to help guide you to uh the right spiritual path where you belong
02:14:39.320but i would encourage those things cliff do you have any advice
02:14:43.160yeah definitely pray to your ancestors everybody's got them even if you don't know their names if you
02:14:48.600knew them in life and they've passed on that can make it easier but you know if you're adopted or
02:14:54.440or, you know, prefer not to pray to ancestors that you knew in life for whatever reason.
02:15:00.720You've got ancestors whose names you don't know.
02:15:03.480You know, most people, it's just a few generations back.
02:15:08.620I mean, that's the foundation of religion for all peoples, I'm pretty sure about.