Asatru Folk Assembly - Stephen McNallen on Gnostic World Radio September 2014

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 Hello, and welcome to the Gnostic Warrior radio show and podcast, broadcasting from GnosticWarrior.com

00:00:39.860 in San Diego, California to around the world. I'm your host, Mo, and today on the show,

00:00:47.780 we have author and the founder of the Assetru Folk Assembly, Stephen McNallan. Stephen was

00:00:54.740 As one of the earliest advocates reconstructing Germanic paganism in modern times, his work

00:01:00.580 has spanned over the last four decades.

00:01:03.400 The word Asatru comes to us from the Old Norse, the tongue of ancient Scandinavia, where it

00:01:08.820 means those loyal to the gods.

00:01:11.680 Asatru is an expression of the native pre-Christian spirituality of Europe.

00:01:16.520 More specifically, it is the way by which the Germanic people have always and traditionally

00:01:21.560 related to the divine and to the world around them.

00:01:24.700 In this awesome podcast, Steven goes over the ways of the ancestors and how you too can connect with your own ancestors of the past.

00:01:32.980 This is not about just his race, but about honoring our ancestors, whatever race you may be out there.

00:01:39.720 And we all need to respect one another along our paths.

00:01:43.540 And in doing so, we respect our ancestors who, for without them, we wouldn't be here because our ancestors are us and we are them.

00:01:51.580 This is a great podcast, and it's a real honor to interview Stephen McNallan.

00:01:58.940 Thanks for being on the show today, Stephen. How are you doing?

00:02:02.300 I'm doing really fine, Mo. Thank you. It's a beautiful day out here on the West Coast.

00:02:06.980 And is here in Southern California as well. Before we get into the great work you're doing now,

00:02:13.360 can you please tell the audience a little bit about who you are and your background?

00:02:16.460 Yes, I am a person who was largely responsible for reviving the native European belief called

00:02:23.800 Asatru in the modern world. Asatru comes from an Icelandic term meaning approximately those

00:02:30.760 true to the gods. We see our relationship with the holy powers, whether you choose to call those

00:02:35.780 gods or whatever, sometimes that word is a bit of a stumbling block. We see that as an intimate

00:02:41.760 relationship of loyalty of friendship and kinship this is the ancient belief of the germanic peoples

00:02:49.680 best known in its form that the vikings practiced it perhaps but not simply limited to them

00:02:55.600 and i believe that just as it gave our ancestors comfort thousands of years ago so it can give us

00:03:02.080 too comfort and guidance and your organization asa true it primarily deals with the nordic and

00:03:09.440 and Germanic traditions of your ancestors?

00:03:12.940 Pretty much the latter.

00:03:15.100 We deal with the Germanic world view, but we understand really the kinship especially

00:03:20.320 of all European-descended peoples.

00:03:22.480 I believe that the geneticist Brian Sykes remarked that something like 85% of the European

00:03:28.920 genome is still descended from those early hunter-gatherers who first moved into the

00:03:33.400 area. So our focus is Nordic, but we consider especially all people of European heritage to

00:03:40.960 be kin on one level or another. A lot of people get confused out there when you start talking

00:03:47.360 about the Norse, the Danes, the Scandinavians, the Angles, the Saxons. Can you briefly explain

00:03:54.060 the differences between these tribes, and are they all of different races? Well, you're speaking

00:04:00.420 now about Nordics slash Germanics or? Yeah, correct. Okay. The Nordics, I think, are merely 1.00

00:04:08.760 an extension of the Germanics. When we think of Nordics, we think typically of Scandinavians.

00:04:15.640 You know, we think, you know, Swedes and Danes and Icelanders and Norwegians. But there were

00:04:21.720 Germanic tribes running all over Europe. Central Europe was full of Germanic tribes, sharing a lot

00:04:28.280 of that territory with the people we call the Celts, to the extent that we can't always

00:04:33.020 divide what tribes were Celting and what tribes were Germanic. I mean, it was pretty much,

00:04:37.900 these are very close kin. So Nordic implies something a little farther north, but the

00:04:44.600 Germanic peoples were all about the area. And in fact, of course, they wandered far beyond 0.63

00:04:48.880 the bounds of Europe itself. And this would be in regards to the Germanic tribes,

00:04:53.940 the Angles and the Saxons? Yes, exactly. In fact, the

00:04:58.280 The Angles and the Saxons seem to have migrated over from the lower part of Denmark to England and settled there.

00:05:07.220 So, again, it's a very close kinship.

00:05:09.260 Yeah, and of course, later on, they would merge.

00:05:12.360 At one time, they were separate.

00:05:13.740 You had the Angles, the Saxons, and then they would later become the Anglo-Saxons, a dual race and a combination of the tribes.

00:05:21.580 Well, and in fact, we've undergone kind of that recombination here in the so-called New World, too, haven't we?

00:05:28.080 I mean, I'm a bit Irish. I'm a lot of Anglo-Saxon from my English ancestors.

00:05:34.840 I've got ancestors from continental Germany.

00:05:37.500 It's sort of a re-blending or a combination of closely allied tribes.

00:05:43.640 Some people say, oh, well, I'm a mutt.

00:05:46.220 You know, I've got Norwegian and English and Scottish.

00:05:50.580 Well, first of all, our ancestors weren't dogs, and it denigrates them to call ourselves mutts.

00:05:57.040 And secondly, all of those peoples are so closely related that it's just, it makes no point at all to quibble amongst them.

00:06:04.520 Yeah, I agree. And just to give a term to the latter group, that would actually, they would be called in literature the Norman Anglo-Saxons, correct?

00:06:12.760 Well, the Normans were Vikings that settled in, of course, Normandy in northern France.

00:06:20.280 So they are largely Scandinavian, and then they came over into England, and, of course, over time intermarried with the people there, and also into Ireland, as the Irish are acutely aware.

00:06:36.120 And so, again, that's sort of a recombining of our ancestral elements.

00:06:41.560 What do you feel, Stephen, is the reason that, you know, in the past, we used to honor our ancestors.

00:06:47.980 We'd all have our rights and our tribes.

00:06:50.280 And over time, over the last 2,000 years, of course, with the advent of religion, Catholicism, the Judaic religions, 0.76

00:06:57.660 they basically, the powers that be, wanted to wash away these ancient teachings and make us forget.

00:07:05.080 What do you feel would be the main reason for this to occur?

00:07:09.540 Was it for us to unite as a people and stop having separate tribes and have one tribe?

00:07:15.080 Or was it something else, do you feel?

00:07:17.220 Well, I think it was several things, Mo.

00:07:18.740 So I'll preface this by saying I have no personal gripes against people of the Christian faith.

00:07:24.000 My mother and father were Christian.

00:07:25.540 I was a Christian for many years until I changed my path.

00:07:29.000 My recent ancestors, whom I revere and honor, were Christians.

00:07:33.540 But that said, Europeans have been Christian for only 1% to 2% of our existence as a people.

00:07:39.720 So Christianity is really a very new phenomenon in Europe.

00:07:42.960 I believe that the reason that the Christian establishment, and it was both a religious and a political establishment, wanted to get rid of the old ancestor cults is because it was a competing factor.

00:07:56.540 I mean, if your loyalty is to your ancestors, it's not likely to be to the priest or to the bishop or to the pope.

00:08:03.540 So it was a divisive thing as far as they're concerned.

00:08:07.040 And also by eradicating the lines between the tribes

00:08:09.860 and just bringing everyone into the, quote, communion of saints,

00:08:12.840 as Catholic liturgy says, they have easier control.

00:08:17.660 It is a matter of basically getting allegiance,

00:08:20.520 keeping that allegiance, exercising control over the people.

00:08:24.140 Do you believe that those powers, you know, the religious elite,

00:08:28.440 are still in control even though they're not as much in the forefront as far as the Pope and the

00:08:33.960 Vatican, that they're still secretly pulling the strings of royalty across the world? You know,

00:08:39.700 I really don't have an opinion on that. I think that certainly their obvious power has waned

00:08:47.940 because the Church itself has over time become degenerate and not carrying out its original

00:08:55.980 mission, I think. It's become modernized, liberalized, diluted in many respects. We do

00:09:04.600 live in a rather degenerate age, and I think that they have suffered from that effect as much as we

00:09:09.040 have. Why do you feel it's important that we follow the ways of our ancestors? To me, the way

00:09:16.420 of the ancestors, our particular ancestors, is the one that is unique. We are a product of those

00:09:24.520 people. We are, as in fact, your own writing says, we are our ancestors. I've been saying

00:09:32.580 literally that for years, and I'm quite aware of all sorts of metaphysical wriggle room in there,

00:09:39.660 but nevertheless, we have that connection. We are the latest expression of our ancestors

00:09:45.480 in this little slice of space and time, and we owe them the gift of life. They passed to us

00:09:54.360 that torch from generation to generation, despite famine and wars and everything else,

00:10:00.820 they gave us the gift of life. Our bond with our ancestors, for me, is one that transcends space,

00:10:09.080 transcends time, transcends mortality. I wholeheartedly agree with you, Stephen. I'm

00:10:15.420 big in also connecting with my ancestors as well. And over the course of the last four years,

00:10:21.640 I've done various DNA tests, and that actually helped me connect with them because I wasn't

00:10:26.500 sure who I was.

00:10:27.700 You know, I was an American, and then before that, my family were Canadian.

00:10:31.420 And then when I researched Canada, I realized, hey, they were formed by France at one time,

00:10:36.980 and it was called New France.

00:10:38.160 And then, you know, I realized in studying France that France was, you know, inhabited

00:10:42.660 by the Gauls and the Celts.

00:10:44.640 And so I got confused.

00:10:45.780 So I eventually got a DNA test, and I feel that has helped me connect with my ancestors

00:10:51.400 as well. Do you recommend people get a DNA test so they find out who their ancestors are if they

00:10:58.520 don't know who they might be? Yes, I do. To be honest, I haven't done it myself. I've just been

00:11:05.580 so busy. Now that I'm officially retired from my wage earning job, I find that I'm busier than

00:11:12.680 ever, strangely enough. I do think it's a good idea. Absolutely. I think I've got a pretty good

00:11:18.000 handle on mine just because we've traced the family tree, but I haven't broken down percentages

00:11:22.580 and stuff like that. I'm very willing to do that, though. To be honest with you also, Stephen, I

00:11:26.840 started my research with my family tree and my last name, and there's a lot that can be revealed

00:11:32.180 there and tie you to your ancestry. And if you break down the names and you follow your family

00:11:37.440 through the course of their migrations, you could also find out a lot about your history and connect

00:11:42.420 with your tribe. But I found when I got the DNA test, it definitely put me leaps and bounds ahead

00:11:47.700 and connecting with them.

00:11:49.220 And do you feel that in doing this and connecting with our ancestors

00:11:52.480 that one of these things that we do to connect with them

00:11:55.400 would be studying the same types of philosophies,

00:11:58.400 the same types of ancient wisdom?

00:12:00.880 Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

00:12:02.160 Because I think that our metaphysical inclinations,

00:12:06.280 our spiritual instincts,

00:12:08.340 will more closely resemble that of our ancestors

00:12:11.140 than it will people from the other side of the planet, for example.

00:12:15.180 I mean, I have a lot of respect for Buddhism.

00:12:17.700 I've known many Buddhists, particularly Tibetan Buddhists,

00:12:20.380 with whom I've worked to some extent, to a considerable extent, actually. 1.00

00:12:24.040 And I respect them, but it's not my way.

00:12:27.840 It doesn't work for me.

00:12:29.360 Now, I understand that Buddhism is very diverse, 0.98

00:12:31.460 but what I've seen of it, it's not me. 0.98

00:12:33.860 What is me, deep down inside, below that little layer of Christianity,

00:12:39.520 is the millennia, the millennia in which we followed another, older,

00:12:45.180 and for us, better path. In this mythology of the ancients, you know, you have the Norse and

00:12:51.460 the various gods and goddesses. Do you believe that these goddesses and these gods are real?

00:12:57.080 I believe they are real, but I can't tell you really a lot more about them than that. We have

00:13:03.200 the mythology, which I feel are symbolic stories. They're essentially metaphor. I believe that myth,

00:13:10.160 like poetry says that which cannot be said.

00:13:14.660 I believe that myth is that which never happened

00:13:17.980 but is always true. But that said, the nature

00:13:22.280 of the gods and the goddesses is something that's intrigued me for obviously decades

00:13:26.300 because I've been doing this now for 45 years, so I've had a lot of time

00:13:30.340 to ponder this. And because my inclination

00:13:34.400 is largely scientific, I was going to be a theoretical physicist

00:13:38.480 until I flunked algebra 2 in high school.

00:13:43.660 Since my leaning is largely scientific and rational,

00:13:47.880 I kept looking for a rational explanation for the gods,

00:13:51.760 or as I often call them, the holy powers,

00:13:54.680 because god or gods becomes kind of a hang-up for some people as a term.

00:13:58.680 They think immediately of the Abrahamic god, which I feel is unfortunate.

00:14:03.780 But the nature of the gods, I sought this out,

00:14:07.260 And I try to find rationalist ways of explaining it.

00:14:09.700 Well, they're beings from another space-time continuum or another dimension or this and that and the other.

00:14:17.360 And, Mo, I don't mean this to be a cop-out, but I've decided that some things are mystery with a capital M.

00:14:26.460 Now, mystery with a little m is no big deal.

00:14:29.100 I mean, you know, they make novels about that.

00:14:31.960 But mystery with a big M is a whole different issue.

00:14:35.680 And I don't think that it can necessarily be approached surely by rational means.

00:14:40.760 For example, we've got the concept of the runes, which, if you're interested, we can talk about later.

00:14:46.640 But I feel the gods are very similar to that.

00:14:49.260 People read a book on runes and they say, oh, well, the rune, Ingwaz, means blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:14:56.940 But the rune doesn't mean those things.

00:15:00.120 Those are things that are associated with it.

00:15:02.600 They are keywords or whatever that go with the concept.

00:15:06.600 Supposing, for example, that we have something in the middle of our room.

00:15:11.600 Say it's a piece of artwork, a statue or something that is unknown to us.

00:15:16.600 And we can look at it from this angle over here and we can say,

00:15:20.600 well, I know this and that about that.

00:15:23.600 In the case of the runes, just pretending that that statue was the runes,

00:15:27.600 or the gods, or some other mystery with a capital M.

00:15:30.600 I can say, well, I know the linguistic derivation of its name, and that helps a little.

00:15:35.520 And I can walk a little bit farther around that circle around this thing in the center of the room,

00:15:40.100 and I can say, well, I know that we have these references in the mythology, and that tells me a little more.

00:15:46.280 And I can walk a little farther and say, well, we have poetic material about them,

00:15:51.960 and that tells me a little something else.

00:15:53.680 But none of these things tells me what the room, what the statue, or what the god is.

00:16:00.180 It merely tells me about it.

00:16:02.740 To me, it's like those curves that kind of help mess me up in Algebra 2.

00:16:07.640 You've got a graph that comes ever and ever closer to one of the axes towards the asymptote,

00:16:15.920 and it never gets there, but it approaches infinitely close.

00:16:20.060 I feel that the holy powers are mysteries in that sense.

00:16:24.540 I think that eventually we can perhaps reach a higher level to where that mystery makes sense.

00:16:28.840 But at this point, I'm not really obsessing about that anymore.

00:16:33.680 In fact, I relish mystery.

00:16:36.160 I love mystery because it is mystery that pulls us on.

00:16:40.800 Yeah, and it's that curiosity of it as well that keeps us going.

00:16:45.700 You claim on your website as a group in your world you do not fear the holy powers

00:16:49.620 or consider yourselves slaves to them.

00:16:52.560 On the contrary, you share a community of fellowship with the divine.

00:16:55.980 Can you explain what you mean by that?

00:16:57.660 Yes, I think this is in sharp contrast with the Abrahamic view, for example, where people are basically seen as slaves of God

00:17:07.380 I believe it was Paul, the apostle, who described himself as a slave of God

00:17:12.600 And there's stuff in the Bible about how we are nothing more than dust under the chariot wheels of the Lord and things of that sort

00:17:19.560 I believe that we are connected with our holy powers in several different ways

00:17:25.700 The mythology that we have describes how one of the gods came amongst the people

00:17:33.660 And basically established the social classes

00:17:36.960 I'm sure that's some sort of a typical theme for mythologies in cultures everywhere 0.97

00:17:43.140 But he did this by sleeping with the wife of the household

00:17:49.480 As it says in the poems, he slept between the wife and the husband

00:17:53.940 And then nine months later was born this baby who sort of epitomized all of the features of that particular social class.

00:18:04.980 Now, you can take that literally or not so literally, but the point is we are descendant of the gods.

00:18:13.020 We are blood kin to the gods.

00:18:16.160 We have within us the same divine spark as the gods.

00:18:20.880 And so we are not alien from each other, quite the contrary.

00:18:26.000 The gods don't want us just to honor them or to obey them or kiss their feet or whatever.

00:18:33.420 They want us to become more like them because we have that potential within us.

00:18:40.540 How do people connect with that potential that they have within us?

00:18:44.480 Do they need to basically shed all the preconceived notions and all the propaganda they've been

00:18:49.880 fed since they've been children and start studying these teachings of their ancestors

00:18:55.360 and that's how they're more able to connect?

00:18:57.380 I found when I started doing that, it was as if a new world was open to me.

00:19:03.160 Before I felt I had blinders on and basically was spoon-fed my knowledge, but when I realized

00:19:09.800 who my ancestors were and started walking the ways of my ancestors i feel that my own evolution

00:19:17.000 started to take off where before this i wasn't evolving and it was like as if i was reborn again

00:19:24.120 reincarnated and and re-illuminated just awakened to this this new reality and i i was excited about

00:19:30.680 life again and i am every day and of course talking to you and following the ways of my ancestors

00:19:36.040 Yes, I think that that's a prerequisite for any sort of spiritual evolution.

00:19:41.560 I mean, if you come before the teacher with a full cup,

00:19:47.040 you've got to empty that cup before the teacher can give you something else to put in the cup.

00:19:52.300 It's an old comparison.

00:19:54.440 I love that analogy. That's great.

00:19:55.900 Yeah, and I think it's absolutely true.

00:19:57.640 We do have to kick out the old preconceived notions.

00:19:59.860 We've got to understand that, in fact, we are friends and kin with the divine,

00:20:06.320 and we relate to them in that way.

00:20:08.860 We must understand our own huge potential.

00:20:12.180 And particularly in the Germanic-slash-Nordic world,

00:20:16.760 there's a number of avenues of approach that we use,

00:20:21.000 and these are based on the mythology and, in particular,

00:20:23.620 on the ordeals that the god Odin, commonly known as the father of the gods,

00:20:29.860 underwent in order to attain a higher level.

00:20:33.920 Do you believe in reincarnation and rebirth

00:20:37.840 and that we reincarnate in the same family or the same tribes?

00:20:41.920 The short answer is yes. I've noted that

00:20:45.800 many tribal groups around the world have that belief anyway

00:20:49.740 and I think that often tribal cultures are closer to

00:20:53.580 the truth on these matters than philosophical religions that are

00:20:57.480 constructed artificially, you know, as sort of an engineered kind of philosophy.

00:21:02.840 I think that their shamanic insights and their insights being immersed constantly in nature

00:21:10.880 give them some good ideas on these things.

00:21:14.180 Basically, I believe that we are reborn into our family line.

00:21:18.760 I think that is a natural tendency.

00:21:21.340 It probably is not an ironclad rule.

00:21:24.000 I think there's other things that happen there, and it gets a little complex depending on people's situation.

00:21:29.520 But I think that there is evidence of that.

00:21:32.440 Now, you can always just rationalize that and say, oh, well, people noticed that because there are hereditary traits that this is so-and-so back.

00:21:39.320 But I don't think it's that simple.

00:21:40.680 I think there is a deeper truth there.

00:21:43.240 Now, in the Germanic world, there's the idea that what we think of as the soul is actually a composite structure, that there's different aspects.

00:21:53.000 And so one can always ask, well, are these particular qualities and soul components the ones that are reborn or not?

00:22:01.220 And, you know, one can go chase that idea around forever and ever.

00:22:04.760 But like I said, the short answer was yes.

00:22:08.220 Yeah, and I feel where it can be complex, you know, we do know today via DNA and, of course, through history that several of the tribes and races have mixed over time.

00:22:19.240 So I'm under the belief, based on my studies of genetics, DNA, and of course history, that a lot of us are multiple tribes in one being.

00:22:28.680 And I feel sometimes that this can also confuse us when we're reborn and reincarnated into this world.

00:22:35.640 If we come possibly from two distinct separate races and tribes, which I believe that I'm made of based on my DNA tests,

00:22:44.180 that we're a little bit confused to what I would say this internal gnosis until we are awoken to

00:22:50.500 it as well. But these other beings that I feel that have the different races and different tribes

00:22:55.740 in them, they can also connect with both of the tribes. And, you know, I have this theory that

00:23:01.680 the powers that be were trying to mix us even though we don't know it. And that's kind of what

00:23:07.680 we're seeing here in the West and, of course, the United States of America with the, you know,

00:23:13.320 pretty much open borders and where tribal identity, race identity is actually frowned upon.

00:23:18.860 And it seems like that is also happening in Europe and, you know, all across the world. But in the

00:23:24.420 East, we see the exact opposite, where whole nations can be considered what we call here in

00:23:30.320 the West racist, or what would be deemed racist. You know, the Chinese are definitely, they frown 1.00

00:23:37.060 upon mixing with other cultures and other races. You go to the Arabic countries, almost every 0.57

00:23:43.120 single one of them the same thing they frown upon mixing with people from the west or european

00:23:48.800 descent and that's pretty much you'll find that carte blanche in all those countries but when you

00:23:54.300 come here it's more of a free-for-all why do you feel that there's these two distinct teachings on 0.53

00:24:00.600 race where in the east and in those countries and asiatic countries hey we stay with our own kind

00:24:05.820 but here we're just having a free-for-all love fest with the different tribes well mo i don't

00:24:12.400 want to get too political here, but my own thought on that is that we have been conditioned

00:24:17.760 to break down that in-group loyalty, that the phenomenon has been encouraged by the

00:24:25.900 powers that be. And again, I think that could be largely a control factor. It seems really

00:24:34.180 that everyone is allowed to express pride in their ancestors and their people, except 0.96

00:24:41.520 people of European heritage. 0.99

00:24:43.360 I feel that we are

00:24:45.320 constantly told that our ancestors 0.81

00:24:47.600 were, quote, dead white males 0.72

00:24:49.560 and so forth and so forth.

00:24:51.200 Or as Susan Sontag said,

00:24:53.480 that we are

00:24:55.180 the cancer of history, things of that

00:24:57.580 sort. I think there's a lot of politics

00:24:59.820 that goes on on this.

00:25:01.320 I believe that awareness of one's

00:25:03.760 ancestry, one's

00:25:05.880 antecedents,

00:25:07.900 or even one's race, if you choose

00:25:09.660 to use it very emotionally,

00:25:11.520 word. I think that's a good thing. I think it's good for people of African heritage.

00:25:15.880 I think it's good for people of Asian heritage, and I think it's good for people of European

00:25:19.280 heritage as well. In saying that, there also seems to be

00:25:23.440 a new acceptance for this type of teachings that we're

00:25:27.540 finding. Yeah, there was a recent announcement in the UK that pagan beliefs should be

00:25:31.640 taught alongside Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and

00:25:35.600 will be included in the Cornish curriculum. What's your thoughts on that? Is it

00:25:39.460 starting to become more open to these types of teachings yes it seems to be

00:25:44.920 and I'm really thrilled by that I too saw that article and and I greeted it

00:25:50.200 joyfully for a couple of reasons a couple of different levels for one thing of

00:25:55.720 course it's it's religious freedom and a recognition that other religions exist

00:26:01.540 so just from that sort of human rights approach and respect for different

00:26:06.160 beliefs and so forth i think that's a good thing but something else is really good there and to me

00:26:11.740 it's the idea that people are seeking those ancient roots they're seeking to get back to

00:26:20.080 what their ancestors did i think that many people around the world are becoming dissatisfied with

00:26:28.340 sort of the globalized produce consume and obey philosophy that seems to pretty much have a strong

00:26:34.660 grip on the planet. People are looking for a different history. They're looking for different

00:26:40.340 memories, different ways of being. And in doing so, they often turn back to their ancestral roots.

00:26:46.720 That is where they find sustenance. That is where they find encouragement. We see this among the

00:26:52.180 European peoples, obviously. You mentioned the Cornish example, but I think that there are many

00:26:58.020 Europeans who are

00:26:59.500 in spiritual revolt

00:27:01.900 against the homogenization

00:27:04.580 of the European Union.

00:27:06.840 But also, this is

00:27:08.320 all around the world. You have

00:27:09.760 the whole fourth world 0.98

00:27:12.340 as it is called, that is made up

00:27:14.200 of indigenous peoples. And

00:27:16.040 they too, they want to hang on to

00:27:18.040 who they are. And they

00:27:19.720 sometimes fight political

00:27:22.140 or even guerrilla wars

00:27:24.220 to maintain that.

00:27:26.380 I've worked with Tibetans.

00:27:28.020 who are trying to get the freedom of their country back.

00:27:30.440 I've lived with armed guerrillas in the jungles of Burma slash Myanmar,

00:27:36.060 helping people who are trying to assert their existence as a people and so forth. 0.98

00:27:41.480 So I'm very sympathetic to that.

00:27:43.440 Basically, it's not about, you know, being tribal or being racist.

00:27:47.740 It's just honoring, of course, your ancestors in the way of your ancestors,

00:27:51.740 but at the same time, respecting the other tribes, the other religions,

00:27:56.420 the other races for their own beliefs, and so forth, where we can coexist with one another

00:28:00.980 and all find our own truths and our own teachings, but at the same time, do not disrespect,

00:28:06.540 do not make any racist connotations toward any other belief or any other race or tribe, correct?

00:28:12.540 You know, I absolutely agree with that. I would take it farther. I would say not only do we not

00:28:17.060 disrespect these people, not only do we not behave towards them in derogatory or racist ways,

00:28:24.480 But they are our allies. They, too, are fighting to maintain their way.

00:28:30.720 We as Europeans are, again, seeking to return to and to find and to honor and to practice our ancestral roots.

00:28:38.120 We don't have to be the same. The important thing is that we support each other in being different.

00:28:45.320 I try to carry that out in my life in every respect.

00:28:49.360 I don't know if you're familiar with the anti-poaching work that I'm engaged in in Africa.

00:28:55.540 No, no.

00:28:56.260 Yeah, I have another non-profit beside the Alsatru Folk Assembly in which I oppose elephant poaching.

00:29:04.640 And I'm very much willing to take my soldiering skills from the past and to take those into the field, fighting alongside Africans to maintain the existence of an incredible species we call elephants. 0.60

00:29:22.120 And to me, that's only fair. It doesn't mean I honor my people any less. Quite the contrary.

00:29:27.520 your actions speak more than your words so it's great that you're doing that and you're showing

00:29:32.980 that by the way you live steven because i know people out there they might construe you know

00:29:38.720 your organization or other organizations out there and always seems to be you know more of the nordic

00:29:43.820 type organizations that get cornered or pigeonholed as being racist but there's of course all types of

00:29:49.400 different organizations out there that are loyal to their ancestors or their groups you know you

00:29:54.540 of the the Jews and the different other races but when it comes to the Nordics

00:29:58.300 they start getting cornered or pigeonholed in there with you know Nazis

00:30:02.880 or skinheads but that's not the case correct I absolutely agree with you I

00:30:07.920 absolutely agree in the declaration of purpose which is the guiding document

00:30:14.820 for my organization the also true folk assembly we our first primary purpose is

00:30:21.540 is obviously practice the religion to honor the holy powers and so forth.

00:30:25.620 The second one is to support the existence of our people

00:30:30.820 and the continuation of our people,

00:30:33.620 but always with the understanding, as we have in a separate point,

00:30:38.620 that we want a planet with real diversity,

00:30:43.000 not buzzword diversity, but real diversity,

00:30:46.360 where people can be free to practice the ways of their ancestors,

00:30:49.440 to govern the way they want to live

00:30:52.240 and to live respectfully and honorably alongside each other around the world.

00:30:57.880 Yeah, and with your organization and you being here in the United States,

00:31:01.280 how long have you guys been an organization?

00:31:03.700 When did you start it?

00:31:05.540 Well, that's a long story, Mo.

00:31:07.340 Okay.

00:31:07.600 It's simple for me.

00:31:09.740 In 1972, the predecessor to my current organizations was formed.

00:31:16.540 It was called the Viking Brotherhood, a rather sensationalist name,

00:31:19.760 but you've got to remember I was young and full of testosterone and in my 20s at that point in time.

00:31:25.300 Of course. That's a cool name, though.

00:31:27.460 It is kind of cool.

00:31:29.280 Actually, we've got a fraternal organization that has adopted that name, not we.

00:31:34.900 It's not a part of the AFA, but they're friends of ours.

00:31:37.800 It has adopted that name just to continue the lineage, and that's kind of cool just to keep it alive.

00:31:44.180 And that was in August of 1972 that we received our little letter from the Internal Revenue Service saying,

00:31:50.120 yes, you're a tax-exempt religious organization.

00:31:53.820 So I think that's probably a first of some sort.

00:31:56.840 And then in 1976, the Viking Brotherhood became the also true Free Assembly,

00:32:02.380 and it carried that name for a few years.

00:32:05.020 Then I took a sabbatical for about five, six years, and I wandered the world,

00:32:09.280 and I wrote for military magazines and I reported from third world hell holes, places you can't drink the water.

00:32:16.620 And then in 1994, 1995, I reestablished what we currently have, which is the Asatru Folk Assembly.

00:32:25.280 So it's been a long 45 years. What can I say?

00:32:29.420 When you look at what we're allowed to do here in the States and, of course, many other Western countries,

00:32:34.880 We're essentially allowed to honor the ways of our ancestors as long as we honor the laws of the land.

00:32:42.380 And you personally have not been persecuted or been gone after by any kind of conspiracies or anything like that.

00:32:49.680 Do you feel over the last 45 years because of your beliefs?

00:32:53.820 Well, there have been a few things that were bothersome.

00:32:56.960 And back just around, just before the year 2000, there were some law enforcement people that, frankly, wrote up a bunch of trash about us, but it was all nonsense, you know.

00:33:11.220 And there have been other people who tried to pin the racist label on us or subversive label or whatever, whatever.

00:33:17.880 But upon closer investigation, all their claims evaporate into thin air.

00:33:24.920 So we've had minor problems, but basically it's been an easy ride.

00:33:31.300 In the last 20 years or 15 years, I'll say, there's been absolutely no problems.

00:33:37.480 We are made up of people who are good citizens.

00:33:41.920 We have many people of a military background or a law enforcement background.

00:33:46.760 I've been both a soldier and a corrections officer, so I've worked both ends of that.

00:33:53.580 And, you know, in all those years, I've received, you know, several different security clearances, never had a problem.

00:34:01.000 That tells me something importantly.

00:34:03.040 And I was also a public school teacher for years where you live a transparent life.

00:34:08.480 And there was never any sort of an issue with my behavior, my beliefs, or my affiliations.

00:34:14.960 So decades ago, yeah, it was problems from time to time.

00:34:19.420 And a lot of the watchdog organizations kind of feed that frenzy a little bit sometimes.

00:34:25.960 I mean, they've got to get their money from somewhere.

00:34:28.360 And I'm sure these security clearances also deal with FBI files that I feel many of us in the alternative research and truth movements,

00:34:37.760 and of course with movements such as yours, you're going to have some files done on you and research.

00:34:44.040 And if you come out clean and you're respecting your ancestors, but you're also not persecuting other races or other beliefs and so forth,

00:34:52.700 that they allow us, the powers that be, the rulers of law, to go ahead and do this as long as we respect others.

00:35:00.280 Well, you know, it's a little hard to nail me as a racist when I'm willing to fight and bleed alongside African men to save their environmental heritage.

00:35:11.640 I agree. I agree, Stephen.

00:35:13.160 And I've similarly worked with, as I mentioned, Tibetans, the Karen people of eastern Burma, and so forth.

00:35:23.880 I've walked that walk, not just talked that talk.

00:35:27.540 In researching you before you came on the show and over the last several months, Stephen, I agree wholeheartedly with that statement.

00:35:35.060 I am not a big supporter or a believer in racist organizations that condemn other races or believe they're superior to others, which I do not get one inclination or one percentage of that from you or your organization.

00:35:49.780 It's actually the opposite. It's just honoring your ancestors, and that's what you guys are about.

00:35:54.700 Do you make sure that you screen people a little bit before they come into the organization

00:35:59.220 to make sure that that's not their intentions and that they're not doing that out there on the streets

00:36:05.480 that could possibly damage your reputation?

00:36:09.080 Well, we do. We do, to some extent, a little background investigation.

00:36:13.100 Nothing really in-depth because that requires some considerable resources.

00:36:16.920 But, you know, we look at people's Facebook pages.

00:36:19.400 Is this really the kind of person we want in our organization?

00:36:22.380 Does this person understand that this is not a racist organization?

00:36:28.020 And yet, on the other hand, do they understand that we are ancestry-based?

00:36:31.420 You know, there's a spectrum in there, and we need people who get that,

00:36:35.500 who get it about ancestors, who get it about heritage,

00:36:38.940 but who are not out to do anything disrespectful in regards to other groups.

00:36:45.820 We screen for sexual predators, things like that.

00:36:48.980 We look people over, and we always tell them, read our Declaration of Purpose.

00:36:54.960 The Declaration of Purpose is what drives the Ossetree Folk Assembly.

00:36:58.660 That's our guiding document, and it's very balanced and very fair,

00:37:03.600 and people can find that online and take a look at it.

00:37:06.700 It's amazing the kind of background searches we could do today

00:37:10.080 without the help of law enforcement or some expensive background check.

00:37:14.660 Just checking people on Google through their Facebook pages and through the statements they make tells a lot about that person.

00:37:21.560 Well, yes.

00:37:22.420 And there's a whole field called open-source intelligence that even the system uses.

00:37:28.420 The stuff that's on the deep web and things like that.

00:37:31.980 I'm sorry. I'm just going to say, yeah. And in terms of being looked at, the word I'm hearing is that anyone who has ever used Tor or even gone to a site describing how to use Tor is on the watch list. So basically, they're everywhere. They're everywhere.

00:37:52.820 What is that? Would I explain what that means? Tor?

00:37:55.440 Oh, Tor. I don't remember what it stands for.

00:37:57.620 Basically, it's an unrouter kind of thing.

00:38:00.020 It's a way of surfing the web anonymously.

00:38:02.580 Okay, gotcha.

00:38:03.520 And, you know, I can think of a lot of reasons people might want that

00:38:08.160 that are very valid and legitimate reasons.

00:38:10.860 But, you know, if you're interested in that sort of thing,

00:38:13.420 somebody's going to probably, they'll be saving all your stuff.

00:38:16.980 Of course.

00:38:17.240 In case you become infamous.

00:38:21.000 Well, a lot of people don't realize is the United States military

00:38:24.320 we're the people that design the internet and i assume that they still own the internet and that's

00:38:31.160 part of of managing us even though we're allowed to connect to everybody i i don't think they call

00:38:36.260 it the web for no reason you don't surf a web you kind of get caught in it sometimes so i think i

00:38:41.040 think that's a good option i really do and let's talk a little bit about paganism a lot of people

00:38:47.020 out there that might be christian or islamic or or any of these judaic abrahamic religions they

00:38:54.060 don't understand before these religions had started that primarily everybody was pagan

00:39:00.380 and that just simply means country dweller and forgive me if i'm wrong or correct me please can

00:39:07.040 you explain the difference not between religion and paganism but between asatru and modern paganism

00:39:14.580 uh yes yes as you pointed out the word pagan comes from latin meaning country dweller or

00:39:21.760 actually sort of a rustic.

00:39:24.520 There's a similar term in Al-Satru that some people use.

00:39:28.700 They describe themselves as heathens.

00:39:31.280 And, of course, we think of that as kind of a derogatory term,

00:39:34.240 which is why I personally don't use it.

00:39:35.980 But it actually derives from the word heath, you know, out amongst the heather.

00:39:41.460 And, you know, again, with the same implication as pagan in that regard.

00:39:46.240 But paganism, as it's commonly understood in the industrialized West today,

00:39:51.760 is is not exactly what we're uh i will i will have to say that's sort of a cultural thing

00:40:01.120 um many of the people who call themselves pagans today are neo-pagans yeah they're

00:40:09.360 certainly they're free to believe what they want to believe you know i get that it doesn't come

00:40:13.760 bad people but the point is they don't understand that many of these religious systems you know the

00:40:21.520 beliefs of the Greeks or the Romans or the Norse or the Sumerians or whoever, many of

00:40:29.760 these were native religions. They're the religions of a people. If I had no more go back and

00:40:37.100 practice some of those, then I could practice American Indian religion, which I honor and

00:40:44.240 respect, but I'm not American Indian. I can't go to the inner workings of a Sioux powwow. I can see

00:40:53.840 the same superficial stuff that everybody else can see, and then when it's time for all the

00:40:59.100 visitors to go home, they do the things that are important and sacred to them. I honor that. I

00:41:04.160 respect that, and it's all about that ancestral connection. I can't wake up in the morning,

00:41:10.120 look myself in the mirrors, I'm getting ready to shave, and say,

00:41:14.420 oh, you know, I think I'm going to take an Amazonian tribal religion.

00:41:21.460 Because I'm not an Amazonian native.

00:41:24.940 I am not.

00:41:26.000 I look in the mirror.

00:41:27.480 I'm a man of European heritage.

00:41:29.840 That is my people are from.

00:41:32.220 That is the way that is right for me.

00:41:34.780 i respect the other and i support strenuously and will support strenuously these of other peoples

00:41:44.980 and their right is that but it's not me yeah and the modern paganism what you call neo-paganism

00:41:50.880 basically you're saying that they worship everything and all the different pagan beliefs

00:41:56.240 and it doesn't matter what it is so where they're losing connection is with their own tribes as

00:42:01.360 opposed to just focusing say on the the nordic uh tradition of their ancestry they're this

00:42:07.480 basically it's all one big you know enchilada cluster and they're worshiping everything and

00:42:12.620 they don't understand it well they they have the impression that a religion is something you can

00:42:17.760 pick off a shelf like a hat or a pair of shoes it's something you put on but no a true religion

00:42:26.320 the religion of your soul the religion of your ancestors isn't something you put on it's what

00:42:32.980 you are and that would go back to the the statement you've been saying for several years

00:42:38.060 and you'd said you've seen me write this on my blog is our ancestors are us and we are them

00:42:42.920 yes pretty much pretty much exactly yeah and that goes back to what i feel being a gnostic is is

00:42:50.900 that spiritual knowledge and what plato had said is all learning is remembering and i believe that's

00:42:57.280 one of the keys to us to evolving is connecting with our ancestors whether they be nordic whether

00:43:04.200 they be greek or roman or whatever they they might be is that we as people all around the world

00:43:10.740 whatever race whatever faith that we connect with them and we honor them because that's what they

00:43:16.200 would like us to do? Are they out there? Are they in the netherworld wanting us to do this and

00:43:21.940 connect with them? Are they lost out there, our ancestors, some of them? Well, I'm generalizing

00:43:28.280 from the basic, the Indo-European ideas on that. Indo-European being a fairly broad term that

00:43:35.220 would certainly include the Germanics and the Nordics, but would also include the Greeks and

00:43:40.700 the Romans, and variously sundry other peoples who in many ways were related. I mean, the

00:43:48.100 philologists will try to describe that just in terms of language, but I think if we look

00:43:53.820 closely, we will see that they were also connected in older, deeper, and genetically linked ways.

00:44:00.580 I mean, we had, for example, the blonde mummies out on the edge of Mongolia in the Tarim Basin, 0.82

00:44:07.080 that area out there there's the indo-europeans were all over the place and i believe that we're

00:44:13.840 all linked and the general indo-european view which you find from culture after culture be it

00:44:20.440 you know celtic or roman or greek or germanic is that the ancestors want to be remembered

00:44:27.940 that's what they need they need us to tell their stories they need us to continue the family line

00:44:35.980 They need us to bring honor to that family line and to not disgrace it and to not besmirch it in any way.

00:44:44.500 They need us to be true to them.

00:44:47.520 That's why throughout our cultures, you know, we would make offerings on the graves of our ancestors.

00:44:53.340 We would, you know, pour them libations.

00:44:55.960 We would do funerary rites for them.

00:45:00.480 I mean, even animals feel that urge.

00:45:03.620 Elephants will come back and caress the bones of their relatives, you know, years after their death, things of that sort.

00:45:12.500 That's a deep urge.

00:45:14.040 And I know that that's pretty much the deal with the ancestors.

00:45:18.540 They need to be remembered and honored.

00:45:20.780 They give us gifts in return.

00:45:22.900 You see, I don't think that death is like a brick wall.

00:45:25.600 It's more like a flimsy curtain.

00:45:27.940 And sometimes that curtain parts.

00:45:29.960 And through it, we can hear the whispers, metaphorically speaking, of the ancestors.

00:45:35.740 The ancestors send us love, their concern, their interest in our well-being.

00:45:42.620 They send us inspiration.

00:45:44.260 They send us luck.

00:45:45.760 That time that your parachute opens when it absolutely should not have.

00:45:49.200 Things like that.

00:45:50.480 We, in turn, keep our end of the deal by honoring them and remembering them, telling their stories.

00:45:56.720 telling our grandchildren their stories.

00:46:00.680 That's a beautiful way to put it.

00:46:02.520 I got chills all over me and almost tears to my eyes

00:46:05.040 when you describe it in such a way

00:46:07.240 because I, again, agree with you wholeheartedly

00:46:09.820 that that is the way that we should do it.

00:46:12.360 And I'd say my life changed for the better, I believe,

00:46:16.340 once I started doing that.

00:46:18.780 And one of my beliefs is over the last several years

00:46:22.660 when I started following the ways of my ancestors

00:46:25.180 where I would get these communications that would come to me either in meditations or dreams

00:46:31.380 or sometimes just when I'm doing something where it would be either a word or something

00:46:36.380 or a vision of a symbol that would always relate to my ancestors and my tribe.

00:46:41.820 And then when I would, of course, use the magnificent Internet created by the U.S. military,

00:46:46.600 I'd use Google, I would be able to connect with them where I would be, say, here in Southern California.

00:46:52.460 and that morning I'm all of a sudden I'm in Crete, I'm in Greece, or I'm in Egypt

00:46:59.000 studying the exact same symbol and finding it in the exact location where my ancestors were

00:47:06.640 and I never even knew that they were there.

00:47:08.980 Do you believe that they send us these messages, these symbols, and these signs to help us?

00:47:14.820 I do. I do.

00:47:16.280 And I think that that often happens with our recent ancestors, newly deceased,

00:47:22.460 And it happens with those from much farther back, I believe.

00:47:26.280 Some scientists did a study once, just a couple of years back.

00:47:29.540 I don't even remember the institute or anything of that sort.

00:47:34.340 But they interviewed people who had recently experienced the loss of a relative or someone very close to them.

00:47:42.180 And in the majority of cases, greater than 50% of those cases, people reported that after that person died, they felt some sense of contact, some sense of their presence, and so forth.

00:47:59.940 Of course, the scientist's concern was, gee, why do people have this hallucination?

00:48:04.440 Well, that, I'm afraid, is the shortcoming of the scientific method.

00:48:09.140 But yes, I believe that happened.

00:48:10.760 You know, we've all had stuff like that happen on one level or another.

00:48:15.300 I was very ill once.

00:48:17.820 Actually, I was in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery.

00:48:21.220 And my mother walked into the room.

00:48:23.800 I don't think she would mind me saying this even in front of your vast audience, you know,

00:48:29.120 because I think she would understand.

00:48:31.800 Maybe that's why she did it.

00:48:33.140 It was so I could tell others that the bond with the ancestors continues after death.

00:48:40.220 death does not limit the ancestral bond blood is not only thicker than water it is more powerful

00:48:47.260 than death i agree wholeheartedly and that's where i believe our consciousness comes from

00:48:52.460 and why a lot in the old pagan religions you would see you know sacrifices and blood rituals i i don't

00:48:59.100 believe it was a sinister thing but they had realized that's where the seat of the soul and

00:49:04.400 our consciousness and the answers to all our lost history was contained do you believe that a lot

00:49:10.200 of the stone monuments, all these immortal stones, carvings, hieroglyphs, texts, and

00:49:15.840 everything was left for us, the sons and daughters of our ancestors, so we could, of course,

00:49:22.020 remember them and find clues to who they were.

00:49:24.500 They knew that possibly this would happen.

00:49:26.980 I think that that is in accordance with that sort of universal, I guess it's a universal

00:49:32.200 law, that's a pretty sweeping phrase, but I will say with the idea that our duty is

00:49:37.640 to remember those who've gone before us.

00:49:39.480 And the traditional idea in the Indo-European and Indo-European peoples

00:49:47.280 is that the loyalty and the memory that we show to the ancestors

00:49:51.260 in some way affects their condition in the afterworld, the afterlife.

00:49:56.640 You probably saw the movie Troy, right?

00:49:59.440 Yeah.

00:49:59.840 Yeah, magnificent movie.

00:50:01.940 It really says that very plainly.

00:50:04.640 The whole movie is about immortality, immortality through fame, through great deeds.

00:50:11.100 And Achilles, of course, being the person who was striving for that form of immortality.

00:50:16.880 But you find the same idea exactly amongst the Anglo-Saxons.

00:50:22.160 You find the same idea amongst the Norse.

00:50:25.160 You find this everywhere in the Indo-European world,

00:50:28.220 The idea that one way of attaining immortality is to accomplish great things and to be remembered for it.

00:50:36.800 There was that incredible scene where the young boy, early in the movie, had gone to get Achilles

00:50:42.160 and bring him back from his carousing and his drinking and so forth.

00:50:48.340 And he gets him on his horse, and the young boy says to Achilles, he says,

00:50:52.680 Oh, you should see this guy. They want you to fight. There's no way I'd fight him.

00:50:56.800 And that's why Achilles turned around, looked him in the eyes, and said,

00:51:02.080 That is why no one will remember your name.

00:51:05.480 Bam. That one line was the whole idea behind this movie.

00:51:11.240 Accomplish great things. That is evolution in many ways.

00:51:14.780 Or it's a sign of evolution if you can accomplish your deeds.

00:51:18.440 Do something that will be remembered for its heroism, for its impact,

00:51:23.040 for its absolute rightness down through the generations.

00:51:28.800 That's why we have rune stones over graves

00:51:32.060 and people wanting to be remembered, things of that sort.

00:51:35.820 Can you explain the runes and what they have to do with your organization, Stephen?

00:51:40.980 Runes are the sacred Germanic script.

00:51:45.900 It is a set of symbols which can be used for writing

00:51:51.120 because they have a phonetic value and often are, you know, were in the old days used for writing.

00:51:58.040 But mostly, especially in the early period, the writing was pretty much for sacred purposes.

00:52:04.700 It wasn't like laundry lists.

00:52:06.560 Now, you did have, you know, you did have the equivalent of grocery lists basically much later in the period 0.93

00:52:13.920 as the old culture was becoming more degenerate. 0.87

00:52:18.240 In Dublin, when they were excavating the waterfront there

00:52:22.320 They found scads of inscriptions in runes

00:52:26.780 And it was often very mundane stuff

00:52:29.240 But the real importance of runes doesn't lie in the ability to write love letters

00:52:35.280 It lies in the ability to communicate with the holy powers

00:52:39.860 With the gods, with the goddesses

00:52:41.860 They are sacred symbols

00:52:43.380 Each of them has not just a phonetic value

00:52:48.000 but also a meaning, a hidden secret meaning, a concept that lies behind the appearance.

00:52:56.940 And, in fact, the word rune in just about all the Germanic languages

00:53:02.360 means something like mystery, sacred mystery, and so forth.

00:53:07.480 So runes can be used in a wide variety of ways today.

00:53:11.680 They can be used in divination, much like the I Ching, which also is a symbol set.

00:53:17.180 and sort of a microcosm of the greater universe.

00:53:22.760 The same with the runes.

00:53:24.000 The whole set of runes taken together basically represent or constitute

00:53:28.680 or incorporate, if even you will, the different aspects that make up the universe.

00:53:35.640 I have experimented with these, and they are highly effective.

00:53:39.240 I once made a series of drawing forth of runes out of a bag

00:53:44.860 on several consecutive days, and every time I would draw out the same piece of wood

00:53:52.680 that had that particular rune on it.

00:53:55.680 And I calculated the odds later, and the odds were about one in seven and a half million

00:54:01.960 of getting the particular sequence that I did.

00:54:06.820 So I feel they certainly work.

00:54:10.920 And again, the mystery of their working deals, I think, with aspects of the universe that we simply don't understand,

00:54:18.900 but which sometimes we glimpse vaguely in some parts of quantum physics, the interconnectedness of things.

00:54:27.640 Do you offer any teachings on runes, or do you recommend any books or anything out there that people could learn more about them?

00:54:34.020 The books I would recommend are those by Edward Thorson.

00:54:37.060 His first book on the subject was called Futhark

00:54:40.820 Futhark is a sort of, well, it's a term like ABCs, only in runes

00:54:46.980 The first six runes in the rune sequence spell Futhark, so hence the name of the book

00:54:52.880 He also wrote Rune Lore, which is a very valuable book

00:54:57.520 And, you know, several others over time

00:54:59.860 To include, he's also got one specifically on divination

00:55:02.520 And it's had a couple of different titles and different editions

00:55:05.840 but a quick search would reveal those.

00:55:09.740 Edred actually has his Ph.D. in Germanic Languages and Literature.

00:55:14.220 He's very erudite and very knowledgeable on this subject.

00:55:17.440 I don't think you could beat him as a reference.

00:55:20.400 Great. Thanks for sharing that.

00:55:21.660 And I know that your organization is very active in having meetings and so forth.

00:55:27.840 Do you have any future events coming up that you'd like to share with the audience

00:55:31.320 and the people around the world?

00:55:33.140 Well, yes, we've been holding a lot of rather major meetings lately.

00:55:38.400 In fact, for a while, our big annual event was always in California because that's where I live.

00:55:46.460 And then we started having significant gatherings over in the northeast up around Pennsylvania.

00:55:54.920 And then we started having some down in Florida as of last year, last spring, we started that.

00:56:00.280 And now we've got a recurring set of events that happen up in the Northwest.

00:56:05.560 We've managed to sort of nail down the four corners of the United States in that regard.

00:56:10.660 Our next upcoming one is one that we celebrate in October, and it's in the Northeast.

00:56:16.640 Anyone who's interested in that or interested in the AFA, for that matter, should take a look online.

00:56:23.900 They can find that information.

00:56:25.500 and it's basically for afa members and people who are clearly sympathetic people we call friends of

00:56:34.180 the afa so if any of your your listeners would like to check that out look over the afa and see

00:56:40.420 how you feel about us and if you're interested we would obviously welcome your membership and or

00:56:46.180 you know continue correspondence with you to to see if you know if you want to become a member

00:56:51.440 For those people out there that like what you have to say, Stephen,

00:56:54.760 can you give them just a little bit more information about joining your organization

00:56:58.500 and what they need to do to apply for membership?

00:57:01.200 Well, it's pretty simple, really.

00:57:03.280 Yes, if they go on to our website at www.runestone.org,

00:57:09.940 they will find a section there on membership, a little drop-down menu that will help them out on that.

00:57:17.200 And, of course, they should read about us and be sure they understand what we're about.

00:57:20.700 I think that actually this interview was giving them a very good idea of what we're about,

00:57:24.180 and I appreciate that very much.

00:57:26.860 But again, read our Declaration of Purpose.

00:57:29.060 It is our defining document, and it's been something we've stuck with for years and years.

00:57:35.340 What's next for Stephen McNallan?

00:57:37.560 What do you have planned for yourself and your organization?

00:57:40.420 Oh, my goodness.

00:57:42.320 Well, lots of stuff, duh.

00:57:45.040 Continued gatherings.

00:57:46.260 Of course, you've got this get-together in October that's going to be magnificent

00:57:49.840 because we've got some awesome people up in the Northeast.

00:57:53.440 We're taking a new approach to our local and regional organizations

00:57:57.960 in terms of tying people together in different ways that are supportive

00:58:04.160 and that will further both the revolution and the permanence

00:58:09.280 and the beneficial effects of the AFA.

00:58:14.260 I'm, of course, heavily involved in all of that,

00:58:16.180 I'm also involved in the elephant project. I have a nonprofit called Forever Elephants, and currently we are attempting to tie down a proposal to go into Congo and train park rangers to fight poachers.

00:58:32.840 I've got infantry skills, and I know lots of people who have infantry skills, and our goal is to train the poachers, to give them a little bit of a leg up, because in general, they're outclassed in terms of physical equipment and things of that sort.

00:58:50.360 but also they don't necessarily have the kind of small unit training that's necessary

00:58:54.960 to deal with what is not just a criminal activity, but virtually a military activity.

00:59:01.540 Poaching is a very sophisticated thing now,

00:59:04.880 driven by a billion-dollar industry and with high tech

00:59:09.340 and with a cartel-type network that extends from the bush in Africa

00:59:16.760 all the way to places like China.

00:59:18.540 So it's a huge, huge endeavor, and I would like to fight that as much as I can.

00:59:24.500 You're the Achilles of fighting these elephant poachers, huh? 0.97

00:59:28.940 Well, you know, it's the right thing to do.

00:59:30.800 I believe that Ossetre serves life.

00:59:32.620 I've never been an environmentalist in a sort of stereotypical way,

00:59:36.540 and people get the wrong idea about environmentalists, really.

00:59:39.400 I mean, it's like everything else, it gets clichéd.

00:59:41.240 You know, your cliché is the intellectual who drinks herb tea and wears Birkenstocks.

00:59:48.540 Well, yeah, I don't, that's not me.

00:59:51.900 I think my favorite environmentalist was a guy named Edward Abbey,

00:59:55.640 who was sort of a beer-drinking, gun-owning, hunting kind of environmentalist.

01:00:02.340 But yeah, it's one of my causes.

01:00:05.080 Asatru has to serve life.

01:00:06.680 It serves the physical life of our own peoples, our own tribes,

01:00:11.620 but also supports the life with a capital L of all other groups around the planet.

01:00:17.540 and the environment on which we depend.

01:00:20.880 As a leader, Stephen, I feel that you're leading by example.

01:00:25.160 Your works clearly show your motives,

01:00:27.500 which is essentially to serve humanity, to serve your tribe, to serve your people,

01:00:31.700 and also to honor your ancestors by leaving this world a better place in the name of your ancestors.

01:00:38.240 And I thank you for your time today.

01:00:40.280 It was a great pleasure speaking with you, and I wish you the best of luck in everything you do.

01:00:44.220 Well, thank you very much, Mo. I've really enjoyed this.

01:00:47.260 Take care, bud.

01:00:48.160 Okay.

01:00:48.640 Bye-bye.

01:00:48.960 Bye-bye.

01:01:17.020 Thank you.

01:01:47.020 Thank you.

01:02:17.020 Thank you.

Asatru Folk Assembly - January 31, 2021

Stephen McNallen on Gnostic World Radio September 2014

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