Stephen McNallen the Importance of the Kennewick Man (2)
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Summary
In this episode, Dr. Carl Sagan discusses his relationship with the ancient civilizations of the Americas and their connection to Christianity. He explains why he believes that there is a genetic link between ancient America and Europe, and why we owe a debt of gratitude to those ancient civilizations.
Transcript
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but of course these apologists never tell us the rest of Indian lore
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they don't tell us about the lore all the way from the Umatilla up along around where Kennewick
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man was found down through Nevada down across into the plains amongst the various Sioux tribes
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It seems to me, if we're going to pay attention to one part of Indian oral tradition, we really
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ought to pay attention to the other part as well, but of course that's rather unpopular
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and you will not find that in the Sunday supplements to your newspapers.
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In addition to artifacts and morphology and Indian lore, we have as well genetics.
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There's a particular genetic marker which scientists call haploid X.
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It has nothing to do with American history X, nothing to do with Malcolm X.
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Now haploid X is a particular genetic marker which is found in some of the very ancient
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American remains, some of Kennewick Mann's contemporaries.
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It is very rarely found in modern American Indian populations.
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As of the latest writing, it has never been found in East Asia.
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Even the rather state and conservative scientific digest that I dug all of this out of admits
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This really looks like evidence of genetic contact,
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genetic connection between ancient America and Europe.
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So, if anyone suggests to you that the idea of ancient Caucasoids
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is, you know, pseudo-scientific, or that there's nothing to back it up,
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or that it's just a figment of some evil racist who wants to bash on Indians,
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and a presumably growing body of evidence that there is an ancient connection between Europe and America.
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And this can be backed up with any of a number of different reasoned, scientific, dispassionate arguments.
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Now, the kind of world I want to see is a world where the Indians are free to be Indians,
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where I am free to be a person of European descent and to take pride in that and to honor that and to honor my ancestors.
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course. And I fully intend to respect their rights, but I certainly expect the same in
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return. The government, of course, doesn't really see it that way. The Indians, although
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frankly I think it would be to their advantage to see it that way because they could win
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allies, don't see it that way because they're very defensive. I think it's really important
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to to stress the spiritual aspect of this and goodness knows you know I've I've certainly gone
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through my own spiritual evolution I started my life as a Catholic my father always wanted me to
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be a priest he probably would have preferred if it was within an established religion rather than
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than I rather alternative one as which is where I've eventually ended up and I would just like
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to drop a word or two about that so that you can sort of understand my perspective
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that I can deal with something that is natural to me
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It's not about culture. It's not a contract between myself and the holy powers. It's something that is innate. My ancestors are a part of my very blood, my bone, my brain, my soul, my spirit. I am their latest representative in this time and place.
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Christian or whether one is atheist or agnostic
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we also feel that individuals are often reborn,
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is that you're going to wake up in your next lifetime
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but they're going to have to quit being so darn compassionate if they're going to do it
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we feel that one is reborn essentially into one's line and so that in a sense we are our own
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ancestors we're here again carrying out our struggles because we do believe that life is
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a struggle here in this plane and sometimes that struggle is with Indians
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sometimes it's with anti-Nazis so-called who are remarkably fascistic in their
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methods and sometimes in fact most frequently the struggle is with
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ourselves so that's sort of my perspective it's my motivation on this
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Well, one might very well say, Steve, you know, this is all very interesting from the archaeological standpoint, and, you know, anthropology is all very cool, but, you know, what's this really all about?
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Our view all along has run something like this.
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First of all, if it turns out through testing that Kennewick man is actually more related to the Umatilla and the related tribes than he is to us, we will gladly relinquish all claim.
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Now, in my gut, I feel very strongly that is not the case.
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But I also know that if no one does any testing, we're never going to know.
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There's sort of a catch-22 involved in this in a way, you know.
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The Indians say, well, he's our ancestor, and we claim him, and no, you can't do any tests.
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Well, of course, our perspective is, if he's our ancestor, he should be with us.
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But we have to test in order to find out if that's the case.
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Now, the law, which sort of regulates these affairs, is a monstrosity called NAGPRA.
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It's something like the Native American graves protection and repatriation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum ad infinitum.
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NAGPRA was written on the assumption that any remains found in America prior to the, quote, European explorers, and by that I think they probably mean Columbus, is by definition Native American.
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And by that, they completely disregard culture.
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They don't care what his biology, what his ancestry,
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what his actual physical connections as a human being were.
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In theory, he could have been a Norwegian who showed up here before Columbus,
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And my argument is that that is bad science.
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It's bad science because it doesn't realize, it doesn't recognize the possible existence of other peoples here before the Indians.
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Which, there is, as I say, obviously a growing body of evidence that that may be the case.
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So we feel that NAGPRA is, on the face of it, discriminatory and racist legislation.
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It is racist, after all, racism does run two directions.
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His appearance here is not a random accident of erosion
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found in what the Chinese insist is Xinjiang province
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in which the people who live there will tell you is East Turkestan.
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Back to that question of self-determination again.
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They are blatantly, boldly, shamelessly Caucasians.
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Now, the Chinese are not very fond of talking about this,
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just to fill you in quickly for any of you I imagine 99% of you follow this but if you haven't
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what for one thing they're blonde usually a good giveaway I think this was pre-peroxide
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pre-Hollywood for that matter B they they have all the skeletal characteristics that we have
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C their weaving techniques are have been described in the professional literature as the
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farthest advanced to the east of typical european weaving styles these are our people these are
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definitely us these are indo-europeans wandering out of that ancient heartland wherever it may have
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been now they don't go back as far as kennewick man but they go halfway or more back and to me
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that's another message it's a message that our people well to be honest probably all people
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people are mobile. Human beings are not planted with their feet stuck in the concrete. They
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move around. And it's true that ancient man didn't have jet planes, but he just took a
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little longer. People got around in the old times. So that's a message to me that our
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particular people, our particular branch of the human race was doing a lot of moving around
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and in fact over into Asia, which is one of the possible entry points
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of these ancient Caucasoids onto the North American continent.
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There is, in fact, a couple of possible options of how this individual got here.
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One possibility, which scientists were originally talking about quite a lot,
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is essentially that if one visualizes here a map of the Eurasian continent,
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and we realize that once one gets essentially onto the east german plains one has a free run
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almost with a few speed bumps in the way a few mountains one thing or another but essentially
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one has got a clear run all the way across to sort of the the position adjacent to the the
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bearing land bridge it's been hypothesized and not by people whose primary occupation was you
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know handing out political tracts that really it's entirely possible that a
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Europa type population could have occupied this entire band across the
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northern part of Eurasia in fact there there's evidence indicating that the
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Manchurians may have been connected with with this population and so forth and so
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forth you know one could theorize on this endlessly so it's quite possible
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that our people came in that direction another possibility and one which seems
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to perhaps be backed up by the similarity between salutary and Clovis is that
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these individuals came across what some scientists are now calling the Atlantic
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crescent and that of course is in the British Isles Iceland Greenland on over
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to North America and that during the ice age that for one thing the sea level
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would have been lower, more of this would have been solid land, and what was a solid
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And so that a highly adapted culture, or a maritime culture, which these people could
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well have been, could have made the trek that direction.
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We don't really know a lot about what happened in ancient prehistory.
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But there are in fact different ways that Kennewick man and his kinsmen could have gotten here.
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Now I think that Kennewick Mann needs to tell this story and I think that he has two ways
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of doing that and one way that Kennewick Mann tells us his story is through science.
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That's why our organization has maintained from the very beginning that in fact science
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We see that as a cultural expression that traditionally we have excelled at and which
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we think is one way about which this man can tell his saga.
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And then there are other ways, more intuitive ways, ways of the spirit, ways of the heart.
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And I think that this too is something that we shall have to look at and just see how
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It's difficult sometimes to make that connection, that ancestral link back to tune in to these
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realities but i think that this is something that that one or many could profitably do
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i think that kennewick man's is a reminder to us
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and the evidence such as it is indicates that kennewick man and his people were forcibly
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displaced. The projectile point found in his pelvis was of a type that we know is associated
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with the people we think of as American Indians. And Kennewick Mann's representatives
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were not to be seen here again until the coming of the Europeans much later in time.
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it appears that Kennewick man's people were genocided exterminated in fact the
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Paiutes of my neighboring state of Nevada have a legend about how they
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destroyed how they killed the last of the red-haired giants by herding them
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into a cave and suffocating them and killing any who ran out and just
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smothering the ones who stayed in this is part of their oral tradition which science is not looking
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at very closely i have been to that cave and strange things have happened there but that's
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that's a story perhaps for another day i've been to that cave and to me it is a shrine
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and as a constant reminder that as the animal rights people are fond of telling us and truthfully
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I think that Kennewick man has come back to remind us that our position on this continent is vulnerable.
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That unless we sink our roots deep into this soil, we will be displaced.
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What happened to his people can happen to our people.
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And I'm telling you now that I, for one, am not in a mood to permit it.
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Misplaced guilt is too heavy a rucksack to carry about.
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I know in my heart that I have never knowingly mistreated anyone because of their race, their
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They can stand outside and they can talk about racists.
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And I know that I don't meet their criteria, well, maybe I meet their criterion, but gods
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But I know that once one turns their back on that word, once one ceases to be intimidated,
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And at that point we simply go about our business of being honorable but insistent people who
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demand the same things for our people that all other groups demand and get.
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And that is a right to existence, a right to self-determination, a right to recognition
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And that, my friends, is not negotiable, it's not something to discuss, it's not something
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to be pondered over, it is not something to be apologized for, it is something that we
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I started these remarks by indicating that none of us really know, you know, what our lives will be when it's all summed up.
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We all do our best, and, you know, only time will tell what our impact on this world will have been.
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the immense scenario in which he was playing a part
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in back of us unseen and we have an obligation a duty to each and every one of our descendants
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who will be here behind us and who will have to live in the kind of world we leave them
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I say that we must leave them a world in which our people have a place of honor
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where we are recognized as in fact an indigenous people
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but that in fact we have ancient, ancient roots here
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who died ultimately because of the depredations of his foe.
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despite the 9,300 years between his time and ours.
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What will be our response to the challenges that face us?
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and say well that's all very nice but hey my grandkids can work it out
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i'm hoping that you won't do that i'm trusting that you won't do that
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and i urge you each and every one of you in the way that works for you
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the way that speaks to your soul the way that speaks to your spirit
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those who are striving to protect our people to protect our heritage
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those who are trying to ensure that there is a place not just for you and me not just for our
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children not just for our grandchildren but for those to come so that our descendants will be
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mining the asteroids and colonizing the galaxy we must take our place we must take it proudly
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and to do that it means that every single one of us must apply our wit our will our hearts and our