Bannon's War Room - Episode 2248： WarRoom Sunday Special With Bishop Athanasius Schneider

00:00:00.000 Okay, welcome. I really want to thank Real America's Voice for making this happen. It's

00:00:25.560 Sunday, 23 October in the year of our Lord, 2022. And this is a War Room special. We had such a

00:00:31.920 prominent and important guest this week. They were able to get some additional time.

00:00:38.120 Bishop, thank you so much. Bishop Snyder, thank you so much. Today's also a very special day. What

00:00:42.940 is it in the church calendar? Today, it is the feast of Spanish Saint Franciscan. His name is

00:00:51.580 Saint Peter of Alcantara. He was a great missionary, priest in the 16th century in Spain. And in the

00:01:01.620 traditional calendar of the church, it is feast day today.

00:01:05.580 Let's talk about tradition for a second. You've kind of dedicated your life to making sure here

00:01:12.920 in the modern age, we go back to these more traditional times. But you have a theory of

00:01:19.980 why that is so important and must happen in the modern world. Part of that is communion with the

00:01:25.360 saints and connection with not just the great heritage of the church, of all the literature

00:01:30.560 and the art and the beauty, but more importantly, the direct lineage of the mass itself and also

00:01:36.500 the saints. Why do you believe that that is the most important thing in this modern world with

00:01:42.420 transhumanism and global economic insecurity and war and pandemics? Why is that a fight worth fighting? 0.97

00:01:53.860 Yes, because the main characteristic of the modern world is exactly the rupture with tradition

00:02:02.740 and to create something completely new, artificial. But this is contrary to the very nature of the human

00:02:14.020 being, the very nature as we were created by God. Because all what we have, we receive, we have received,

00:02:25.060 starting with the life. We received a life from our parents. We received a soul from God directly. And all the knowledge

00:02:38.100 which we have, we received from our, from those who lived before us, they transmitted us all the treasures of culture,

00:02:47.940 of human knowledge. And, and, but in the first place, the faith. And this is the basic truth, because God spoke to humanity

00:03:03.140 in the divine revelation. And this is called, God gave us something. So we received his word, his truth.

00:03:13.220 We received, we received, we not created this. And therefore, by receiving, it's included the tradition. It is

00:03:21.140 inseparable. So we have this, as we transmit the human life, which God gave us this order, when he created

00:03:30.420 men and women. So, when he revealed himself supernaturally, in the Old Testament, in the fullness in Jesus Christ,

00:03:39.220 he gave us this greatest gift, his truth, the faith. And the task of the church, and of all believers,

00:03:51.140 starting with the parents, they have the duty to transmit faithfully what they received. This is the entire mission of the church.

00:04:00.340 And included the faith. And, and, and, and, and, and most important eximious expression of the faith, which was handed down, is the liturgy, the prayer, as we express the faith. And therefore, so important is to keep

00:04:19.540 keep the traditional way of believing and of praying.

00:04:27.700 The church in the 19th century, with the Industrial Revolution, and things that were going on in, in Europe,

00:04:34.420 the church leaders

00:04:37.460 understood that this was going to be a problem. In fact, they came up with this, what the, uh, oath

00:04:43.460 against modernity, or the anti, the oath against anti-modernism. Talk about those church leaders, what, what, what was it that they saw

00:04:52.020 ahead, that they would actually get, become so adamant, that, because you have on one side,

00:04:58.900 in the 19th century, church leaders, who are adamant about, we have to fight at a spiritual level,

00:05:08.100 this thing called modernity, that we've seen in the French Revolution, but it's, it's, it's getting deeper now with the Industrial Revolution.

00:05:14.500 And you go to 1960, so basically 80 years later, or 100 years later, and you have church leaders that say the exact opposite. In fact, we have to welcome in modernity.

00:05:24.980 What did they see, and what transpired in those 100 years, that led to the Second Vatican Council?

00:05:32.500 Yes, this is a very good question. So, I think that, uh, partly, these church leaders,

00:05:40.260 starting with John XXIII, and those who promoted the Vatican II Council, they're confused. There is a

00:05:49.460 technical progress, which helps human beings, to us all, to, to live better materially.

00:05:56.660 But it also killed that material, that material, the technological advancement, it also killed 200

00:06:03.140 million people. Yes. We just finished the greatest dark age. People of 500 years from now will look

00:06:08.420 at the 20th century as, uh, like the dark ages. Yes, and this is the question. So how could they make

00:06:12.580 that mistake though? I understand material progress that you have televisions, and you've got cars, and

00:06:17.540 the family doesn't have to plow the fields, but you're literally just at the edge of a smoking

00:06:24.180 hole that was the Second World War. Exactly. This is what I wanted to say, that the progress of the

00:06:29.860 technique can be in some way good, but they welcomed the progress, and they forgot that this progress of

00:06:42.500 techniques of the modernity, uh, leads to a great danger, as you mentioned, the wars and the mass weapons

00:06:53.700 to destroy humanity. But I want to go back just for our audience. You have people, and let's talk about

00:06:58.580 the, the, they actually come up with an oath. The church is not in the business of putting out oaths. I mean,

00:07:05.540 this is the importance they had. And every priest, every teacher, every lecturer at a Catholic

00:07:12.180 university, you had to buy into this. And it was quite detailed. So they're drawn a line in the sand

00:07:19.780 that we understand where this is going to go, and we're going to be a bulwark

00:07:23.860 in the Judeo-Christian West against this. You then have what they told you was going to happen,

00:07:31.620 even worse, to nuclear chemical weapons in World War I, nuclear weapons in World War II,

00:07:36.900 mass starvation. I mean, 200, 250, a quarter of a billion people slaughtered.

00:07:42.500 How could people on the other side of that, the people at Second Vatican Council, the people in Rome,

00:07:47.140 are some of the most educated people in the world. How could they possibly have missed that? Yes,

00:07:52.820 you're materially better off and technology got a lot of positive things, but we were never had this

00:07:57.060 slaughter if it hadn't been the convergence of dark forces with technology. How could they possibly have

00:08:02.980 missed what was probably the biggest lesson to mankind? They missed the basic error of the modern

00:08:12.180 time. Despite of the technical progress, as you mentioned, the humanity became more and more morally

00:08:21.540 worth and inhuman. And they forget the reason of why. Because humanity, the modern time, put God aside

00:08:34.340 and put themselves in the place of God and started to neglect and despise the commandments of God.

00:08:44.020 And therefore, all this, in spite of the technical progress, we had disasters, only disasters in the modern time.

00:08:54.100 And this was the error of these church leaders not to appeal to this route to indicate the very cause of this.

00:09:06.020 Instead, they were simply impressed, overwhelmed with the material progress of the modern world.

00:09:13.060 And this was, to my opinion, a great omission and a deception of these church leaders, or they were probably also

00:09:23.940 had a kind of complex of inferiority before the modern world.

00:09:30.980 Or they wanted to be approved by the modern world. And this is a weakness.

00:09:37.700 What do you mean approved? To be held up by the secular world?

00:09:40.820 Yes, the secular world, the unbelieving world, would applaud them, would recognize them.

00:09:46.420 But this is an illusion. And this is a weakness. And it is not worthy of those who are called

00:09:56.420 the successors of the holy apostles. Jesus Christ and the apostles never were seeking

00:10:03.540 the recognition and the applause of the world.

00:10:07.780 You have Christ triumphed, Christus Vincent of my altar boy Latin. 0.91

00:10:17.700 Christ triumphed over the darkness of the age.

00:10:21.940 Do you consider Christ triumphant in the 20th century?

00:10:24.980 Yes, because Christ already won. In his sacrifice on the cross, he destroyed sin and triumphed over the

00:10:39.700 devil. And with his resurrection, he manifested his triumph. And since then, he is and he will remain

00:10:48.580 the winner. Nevertheless, in this world, the church will be until the end of the time, Christ said this,

00:10:58.900 only a small flock, and always persecuted. Because in the Gospel of St. John, he said,

00:11:07.140 Christ the light came to the world, and the world did not accept him, did not receive him. This will be

00:11:17.140 until the end of the time. And therefore, the church is called by its nature here on earth,

00:11:25.140 the church militant. It means the church, which is fighting, but not materially fighting, of course, but to

00:11:36.100 it is doing a spiritual war. So, here, your place here is called the war house. And the church is, 0.56

00:11:46.100 I would say, the entire Catholic church is a great, a big war house. And always the apostles, 1.00

00:11:56.180 the fathers of the church, the saints, the popes, during two millennium, they were aware and stressed

00:12:03.940 this, we are in the midst of a battle. We have not to be so naive and to be a victim of the illusions

00:12:13.620 that the world will accept us. But if people, but Catholics today, and Christians today, look at 0.82

00:12:22.500 China, and look at the underground church, and look at what was Eastern Europe before the fall of

00:12:27.620 the communists, and look at certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa or South Asia, they see a church

00:12:33.060 persecuted. There, they see the church in a fight, right? Do you see that in the book, you talk about

00:12:39.220 the de-Christianization of Europe, even before this wave of the entry of Islam. But really, 0.65

00:12:49.460 the secularization that came right after the oath against modernity, the secular nature,

00:12:54.900 the de-Christianization of Europe really started whole hog. Do you see that? We've got about a 0.92

00:13:01.700 minute before we go to break. Do you see the de-Christianization of Europe, that they put up a 0.51

00:13:05.780 strong enough fight? Are they putting up a fight today? Exactly. The de-Christianization of Europe, 0.97

00:13:12.260 it was going on since the French Revolution, and ever more. And exactly in the 20th century,

00:13:20.580 it was growing. And exactly at this moment, the church should strongly stress our duty,

00:13:27.220 of course, with dignity to fight against all these modern dangers, who were a kind of spiritual poison,

00:13:39.700 poisoning the humanity, with a life, a completely materialistic life, and a life against the

00:13:48.580 commandments of God, which is a disaster for all humanity, which we are now witnessing.

00:13:53.700 Let's take a short commercial break. We're going to return with Bishop Schneider, who joins us from

00:13:58.420 Kazakhstan here in the United States. I want to thank Real America's Voice for this tremendous

00:14:02.980 opportunity for this one-hour special. We'll be back in a moment.

00:14:32.980 south william.

00:14:37.980 balbuto

00:14:45.980 glial

00:14:50.980 in

00:14:56.300 lol

00:14:57.980 Okay, welcome back.

00:15:21.540 The team in Denver, I really want to thank Real America's Voice for helping us do this special, hopefully the first of many.

00:15:27.980 The cover of your new books about the mass and how to get back to tradition.

00:15:32.040 It has a absolutely stunning, if the guys in Denver can pull into this, photograph on the front.

00:15:38.760 It is a traditional Catholic mass being said, which looks like a beautiful cathedral once.

00:15:46.100 But obviously this is the remnants of World War II.

00:15:48.620 So the question gets to be, if Europe is a Christian culture and is the bedrock of the Judeo-Christian West, how do we end up with all that carnage and destruction on the outside? 1.00

00:16:06.020 They even took down the material part of the church.

00:16:08.060 How did we, because that picture is so ironic.

00:16:10.860 You have the highest, not ceremony, but offering to God.

00:16:19.560 Worship.

00:16:19.820 Worship to God, right?

00:16:21.620 At the same time in a burned out husk with hundreds of millions of people dead.

00:16:26.740 How does that happen and what is supposed to be a Christian culture in the bedrock of the Judeo-Christian West?

00:16:35.720 Yes, this picture is exactly a demonstration of what happened in the last centuries and a demonstration of what produced Christianity in Europe.

00:16:49.080 For all the beauty which the European culture produced since the Middle Ages in art, in music, in architecture.

00:16:59.500 Today, all the people around the world visiting Europe, they go to see Notre-Dame de Paris.

00:17:07.480 They see the Dome of Cologne or Milan, the Basilica of St. Peter, all these beautiful art.

00:17:15.540 Chartres.

00:17:16.200 They will not visit a supermarket, a modern-style church, which was built today, oftentimes like a supermarket, a hall.

00:17:31.200 No one will visit a tourist such a church, but they will visit Notre-Dame de Paris and so on.

00:17:37.180 And to look at the beauties of all the famous architects and the music the same.

00:17:45.540 The greatest beautiful music produced in history, in humanity are the music produced by the church, by the composers who were believing, let us say, Palestrina, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, and so on.

00:18:04.540 But all that art, all that beauty, all that music, all that led to that.

00:18:11.020 Exactly.

00:18:11.780 This is very precise, you said.

00:18:14.840 This all beauty was made by humanity for God, to glorify God.

00:18:22.200 Because for this aim, God created us to glorify Him.

00:18:30.000 And in this consists our happiness.

00:18:33.560 And we will never find our happiness individually and in humanity unless we try to glorify God in our life, even exteriorly with this beauty, because God is beauty.

00:18:48.840 And when people and humanity or a time like the modernity puts God aside in the periphery, then the result is ugliness, simple ugliness, spiritual ugliness, morally ugliness, and the arts.

00:19:10.620 And so this picture which you showed, it is that the modernity brought this bombing and destroyed the beauty which the Christian faith, the Catholic faith, produced.

00:19:25.080 Almost naturally, almost naturally, the Catholic faith, produced this beauty.

00:19:31.260 Why?

00:19:31.920 As long as Christians, the church, put God at the center, really at the center, and gave Him the primacy. 0.99

00:19:42.420 As long as they did this, there was beauty.

00:19:45.680 Of course, in the modern life, in the past centuries, even ever since, this is a reality.

00:19:54.820 What about the secularist argument that's saying in the early part of the 20th century with Einstein and the discovery of relativity, that you found out that it's, and then the study later of the subatomic quantum mechanics, that it's all random.

00:20:09.460 It's relative, and then it's random, that that understanding, man's progress in understanding the universe, and understanding the material universe, made not just the church irrelevant, but made Christ as just a myth of a nice person and a good teacher, but that God is really totally mechanical.

00:20:29.220 And modern science shows that, which led to obviously the atomic bomb and the destruction in the 20th century.

00:20:36.480 What about the secularist argument that advances in science really led us to understand the universe better, and the rest of it's just myth?

00:20:44.600 Yes, this is an error, because God created the reason, and reason and faith are together.

00:20:55.180 As Pope John Paul II stated, this beautiful expression, faith and reason are like the two wings of a bird.

00:21:04.880 And you cannot fly with one wing, and you cannot fly with one wing.

00:21:08.940 It will lead to a disaster.

00:21:12.700 And so the modernity only chosen the one wing, the reason, but excluded God, the creator, who revealed himself to us in faith.

00:21:23.780 And this rejection of the voice of God in the revelation, in the faith, is leading to a disaster, even with the highest technical progress, as you mentioned, Einstein.

00:21:41.200 And there cannot be relativism, because it's against common sense.

00:21:50.040 We have to restore, again, the common sense.

00:21:53.680 How did someone, tell us a second, how did a little boy from Kazakhstan, one of the most remote places on earth,

00:22:02.660 what's the arc of your story of how you became essentially the intellectual, or one of the intellectual leaders,

00:22:08.580 and one of the fighters to get back to a more traditional Catholicism, and therefore a more traditional Christianity?

00:22:15.200 How did that happen?

00:22:17.620 As at the beginning, we spoke about tradition.

00:22:20.960 And so all what I have, I received.

00:22:25.520 It is not my merit.

00:22:27.360 And so we have to recognize that it is God in our life.

00:22:31.600 We call this divine providence, which puts us in a certain time, in a certain place,

00:22:39.600 and then gives us the gifts through several means, first through the parents.

00:22:47.120 And I had the great happiness in my life, and I am so grateful to God that he gave me very believing Catholic parents and grandparents.

00:23:00.300 So I grew up in a soil already with a deep Catholic faith.

00:23:05.640 And Kazakhstan is not a traditional Catholic country.

00:23:08.300 Yes.

00:23:09.560 In fact, it's a very tiny minority of Catholic Catholics.

00:23:14.000 We are currently only 0.5%.

00:23:16.300 0.5%?

00:23:17.400 Yes, of the population of Catholics.

00:23:19.080 You're one half of 1% of the country. 0.69

00:23:21.700 Yes, half percent.

00:23:22.800 And the majority are Muslims, and a considerable part Russian Orthodox.

00:23:28.040 But I had to tell the story because I belong to the so-called Germans from Russia and to this group of the Black Sea Germans at the Black Sea Shore.

00:23:40.880 There were 19th century German villages, completely separated from Russians, and even separated Catholic villages and Lutheran villages.

00:23:51.920 And so these were German farmers who came at the invitation of the emperor.

00:23:57.460 He gave them land and so on.

00:23:59.840 And they transmitted faithfully the Catholic faith through generations.

00:24:04.800 And so my parents, and during the Second World War, well, in the 30s, it was, I have to say, the years called the terror years of Stalin.

00:24:16.580 He killed Stalin, 36, 37, the horrible, and he killed Stalin, his own people, not foreigners, his own Soviet citizens, several millions in two years. 0.78

00:24:35.540 And my grandfather was one of the victims.

00:24:39.320 He was a young man.

00:24:40.400 He was only 27 years old, and he was killed simply because of three reasons.

00:24:47.080 He was a German.

00:24:48.740 He was a Catholic, really a practicing Catholic man, and he had some land.

00:24:55.900 And this was, in these two horrible years, the terror years, already a reason to be killed.

00:25:04.040 And so he was on the list to be killed.

00:25:07.080 And so he was, and my grandmother was alone with two children, my father and his brother.

00:25:16.300 And then the Germans of the Black Sea were, not deported, but evacuated during the Second World War by the German army to Germany, to East Germany, to save them from the Soviet army.

00:25:29.300 And then the Soviet army occupied East Germany, and arrested all these people again, and brought them back to Soviet Union as slave workers for forced labor.

00:25:39.420 And so my parents came to a labor camp in the Ural Mountains, and there they, by miracle of God, they survived, because a great part of these Germans, they died of frozen and famine.

00:25:55.540 And of exhaustion.

00:25:57.680 Starks to death or starved death.

00:25:58.720 Yes.

00:25:59.740 And hang on for one second.

00:26:01.840 I want to take a break.

00:26:02.620 We're going to continue this story of the journey of Bishop Schneider from Kazakhstan.

00:26:08.300 We'll be back.

00:26:09.280 Real America's Voice, The War Room, in a moment.

00:26:11.480 The War Room, in a moment.

00:26:41.480 The War Room, in a moment.

00:26:55.500 The War Room, in a moment.

00:27:00.240 Christ's triumph over the darkness of the age.

00:27:23.500 It's a part of his biography of Bishop Snyder.

00:27:27.160 And we're going to make sure we put out a lot of his content over the coming days and weeks, months ahead.

00:27:32.920 So we want the audience to know him.

00:27:36.180 Your parents are in a gulag and essentially a concentration camp.

00:27:40.400 People are starving to death and freezing to death.

00:27:44.360 It's very much like Solzhenitsyn's A Day in the Life of Ivan Desnovich.

00:27:52.920 For our secular audience, because we have a large Catholic audience, traditional Catholic,

00:27:56.900 we have a large evangelical Christian, they would, the secular audience would say, I haven't seen a lot of triumph.

00:28:03.860 Right.

00:28:04.240 All I see is, you know, all I see is deprivation.

00:28:07.700 I see, you know, young guy getting killed with, you know, his wife left with two children, murdered by these butchers.

00:28:15.540 Now they're taken to another land that they are not from or have historical.

00:28:21.880 They fight this horrible war.

00:28:24.240 They're enlisted and then they get sent to slave labor camps.

00:28:27.840 The secular audience to go, where's the triumph? 0.99

00:28:30.200 The triumph of Christ is exactly in the example of heroic example and fidelity of the faithful.

00:28:41.440 As my parents were in this horrible situation of this false labor,

00:28:49.340 they managed to organize a clandestine underground church

00:28:54.340 and to transmit the faith in these situations.

00:28:58.580 And this is a triumph of Christ.

00:29:00.560 They were not a triumph.

00:29:01.400 Would they have been executed immediately if they found the underground church?

00:29:04.800 Not immediately, but they could be imprisoned or others.

00:29:09.380 For practicing the faith?

00:29:10.980 Yes.

00:29:12.380 Yes.

00:29:12.860 And so they made this, and my parents were activists in the underground church in the Ural Mountains

00:29:20.500 and were hiding priests.

00:29:24.380 And this strength, this power, that in midst of persecutions and this false labor,

00:29:33.620 people were able to remain faithful and to transmit their faith even with joy.

00:29:40.000 My parents had always joy.

00:29:43.040 This is my, all my records and my memories of my childhood and my youth.

00:29:50.760 Even so, there was so much suffering, but they transmitted to us children the joy.

00:29:56.220 And this is the triumph of Christ.

00:29:58.060 In midst of the persecution, I have the joy of God.

00:30:01.500 And this is the proof that Christ is living, is alive in the lives of these people.

00:30:09.200 And in our day, we have also, thanks be to God, many people, maybe they are families,

00:30:16.200 maybe they are not known on the television or in the newspapers, but they are,

00:30:21.800 who are keeping fidelity, faithfulness to God's commandments, to Christ,

00:30:29.100 and who are joyfully transmitting the faith and the good education to their children.

00:30:36.860 So in a slave labor camp, and then afterwards, they can transmit joy,

00:30:41.000 and you remember them as joyful people.

00:30:42.700 You look at the modern West today, and you see these families with all this material wealth,

00:30:47.780 but it's misery.

00:30:48.900 They're depressed.

00:30:49.740 They have to take drugs for it.

00:30:51.220 Is that, is your point, that's the absence of lived Christianity?

00:30:55.700 That's the absence of Christ in their life?

00:30:57.300 They'll never be happy, no matter how much material well-being they have?

00:31:01.100 Exactly. This is, when you have, when Christ is not in your life, and He's the only meaning,

00:31:09.800 the only way, the only life for humanity, for every human being.

00:31:16.460 Without Christ, you have, you will never achieve a true happiness.

00:31:21.540 And therefore, we have these cases.

00:31:24.760 Therefore, this is our task and the mission of the Church, more than ever,

00:31:29.940 to help our, the contemporary people who lost the faith and the meaning of life,

00:31:37.680 to bring them this happiness and joy of Christ,

00:31:41.640 that they can know Christ and receive Him in their lives.

00:31:46.440 And Christ will triumph, and is triumphing in the lives of the people.

00:31:51.840 The Church, at least the apparatus of the Church that transmitted that to your grandparents, 0.70

00:31:59.640 and their parents, and then down to your parents,

00:32:03.640 so they can be joyful in a living hell,

00:32:07.340 and pass that joy to you, that would then dedicate your life to this.

00:32:10.660 When people look at the Church today, let me just be brutally frank,

00:32:15.440 that's not what they see.

00:32:16.700 They don't see that transmission.

00:32:18.220 And particularly, I can look at Cardinal Zen in China,

00:32:21.340 I can look at the United States, I can look at Europe.

00:32:24.540 You go to Europe, you go to Rome,

00:32:27.980 and you have the most magnificent architecture in the world.

00:32:30.540 And you go to these churches, as I do, and there's not even Italian priests.

00:32:34.220 They're priests from, they have to go to other places in the world,

00:32:37.780 and there's not 50 people.

00:32:40.100 These churches can have a thousand people there.

00:32:43.120 There's 50 people for Sunday Mass.

00:32:45.240 And all those people, the average age of the people, are 75 or 80 years old.

00:32:50.280 So, the Church that transmitted that to your parents, 0.95

00:32:53.140 that joy that you then can pass down in the most horrible situation in the world,

00:32:58.980 what has happened to that Church?

00:33:00.380 Where is that Church?

00:33:01.160 Exactly.

00:33:02.420 This is the crisis in which we live since the Second Vatican Council,

00:33:07.800 since 60 years.

00:33:09.880 And this council was announced by Pope John XXIII as a kind of springtime,

00:33:18.800 which will come, but...

00:33:20.520 Open the windows and let the fresh air of springtime in.

00:33:22.940 But which air?

00:33:24.760 The air of the world.

00:33:26.020 It's not fresh.

00:33:27.480 The air of the modern world was poisoned.

00:33:30.980 Okay, but the Pope is infallible,

00:33:33.780 and he had the smartest people in the Church at that time,

00:33:37.300 including Pope Benedict, I think, and John Paul II,

00:33:40.380 as younger priests or seminarians.

00:33:42.920 They were young, but they were part of it.

00:33:44.800 You had the smartest brains in the Church,

00:33:49.400 because this was not just a big deal,

00:33:51.520 this was the biggest deal,

00:33:52.600 because one had not been called in so long,

00:33:54.520 particularly one like this.

00:33:56.320 How did they get it?

00:33:57.320 So how did they, and you have a magnificent book,

00:33:59.820 The Springtime That Never Came,

00:34:02.280 and they're directed by Christ.

00:34:05.140 They've dedicated their lives to Christ.

00:34:07.020 How?

00:34:07.960 This is not something that's slightly wrong.

00:34:11.360 This is something that's dead wrong.

00:34:13.620 Dead wrong, as we now know.

00:34:15.920 Right?

00:34:16.180 So how did that happen?

00:34:17.300 It is a very delicate issue,

00:34:22.960 because even these good people,

00:34:25.860 and they were very bright in their mind, intellect,

00:34:29.620 Karatzinger, Vaitila, in his young years,

00:34:34.820 there was a kind of general atmosphere in the 60s,

00:34:39.040 before the Second Vatican Council,

00:34:40.860 with the announcement of a so-called new springtime,

00:34:46.220 to open the church,

00:34:48.140 the windows to accept this,

00:34:51.380 in some way,

00:34:52.220 the spirit of this world,

00:34:54.420 to make peace with them.

00:34:56.820 It was a kind of a general atmosphere,

00:35:01.360 a kind of, I would say,

00:35:02.780 a virus,

00:35:03.620 a spiritual virus,

00:35:04.760 which infected even the best priests sometimes,

00:35:10.720 and bishops,

00:35:11.800 and they were enthusiastic of this new,

00:35:16.080 like, you know,

00:35:16.960 a fashion can influence people,

00:35:20.880 even unreasonable,

00:35:23.400 an unreasoned fashion can influence people,

00:35:26.000 and they simply go with the current atmosphere.

00:35:29.640 And this was,

00:35:31.340 to my opinion,

00:35:32.740 even these good theologians,

00:35:35.660 like,

00:35:36.240 it was Ratzinger,

00:35:37.640 and Vaitila,

00:35:39.440 they were partly influenced by this enthusiasm,

00:35:44.380 more enthusiasm.

00:35:46.220 But who drove that?

00:35:47.040 Because you go back then,

00:35:49.960 the church is kind of hitting on all cylinders.

00:35:52.840 It is growing,

00:35:54.340 it's growing in America,

00:35:55.900 it's growing to the missions,

00:35:57.240 you have,

00:35:57.920 you have a church,

00:35:58.620 there seems to be

00:36:00.540 no problem,

00:36:03.120 no huge problem.

00:36:05.320 Who came up with the idea,

00:36:07.060 how do you even have to let the springtime end?

00:36:09.400 You have something

00:36:10.240 that is

00:36:11.360 getting more converts,

00:36:13.060 it's growing,

00:36:13.620 you're getting,

00:36:14.880 in the western world,

00:36:16.920 whether it's Latin America,

00:36:18.160 or

00:36:18.380 the United States,

00:36:20.060 the church is growing vibrant,

00:36:21.560 and it's,

00:36:22.400 we're literally a shell of that today.

00:36:25.780 Who were the drivers that said,

00:36:28.260 we have to make,

00:36:29.660 not marginal change,

00:36:31.600 but we have to make fundamental change,

00:36:33.820 because there's something deeply wrong here.

00:36:36.660 Yes,

00:36:37.120 I think we have to go more back,

00:36:39.960 to the time of the modernism,

00:36:41.820 in the end of the 19th century,

00:36:43.960 which partly penetrated,

00:36:45.820 the life of the church,

00:36:46.860 the seminaries,

00:36:47.700 and some theological faculties,

00:36:49.680 and the core

00:36:51.960 of this movement,

00:36:54.740 the modernism,

00:36:55.740 the Catholic modernism,

00:36:56.920 was

00:36:57.160 to adapt

00:36:58.400 the way of thinking

00:37:00.360 of the modern world,

00:37:02.320 which is

00:37:02.980 naturalistic,

00:37:04.900 rationalistic,

00:37:06.740 anthropocentristic,

00:37:08.240 and basically relativism,

00:37:11.240 saying that

00:37:12.200 there is no stable

00:37:13.460 and constant truth,

00:37:15.240 it's always evolving.

00:37:16.400 And therefore,

00:37:20.080 these clergymen,

00:37:22.220 who were in some way

00:37:23.640 repressed

00:37:24.580 by the anti-modernisting oath,

00:37:27.560 which was imposed

00:37:28.900 to all clerics

00:37:29.800 in 1910

00:37:30.860 by Pope

00:37:32.320 St. Pius X,

00:37:34.960 they simply

00:37:36.300 went

00:37:38.260 silently

00:37:40.780 and doing

00:37:42.100 some

00:37:42.660 networks

00:37:43.960 to create

00:37:45.960 hiddenly

00:37:48.900 to propagate

00:37:49.780 their ideas

00:37:51.300 within the church.

00:37:52.980 And so,

00:37:54.020 unfortunately,

00:37:55.960 God permitted

00:37:57.380 this,

00:37:59.180 that Cardinal

00:38:00.140 Roncalli

00:38:01.180 was elected Pope

00:38:02.380 in 58,

00:38:04.480 with the name

00:38:05.060 John XXIII,

00:38:06.980 which was,

00:38:08.300 he

00:38:08.740 had some sympathies

00:38:11.080 as a young professor

00:38:13.020 and then

00:38:14.680 as a nuncio 0.62

00:38:15.380 in Paris

00:38:16.060 to

00:38:17.200 this general

00:38:19.220 movement

00:38:20.780 of to accept

00:38:22.420 partly

00:38:23.660 this way

00:38:24.500 of thinking

00:38:25.140 of the modern time,

00:38:27.120 of the

00:38:27.920 more

00:38:28.680 naturalistic way

00:38:30.480 or

00:38:30.900 to adapt

00:38:31.920 the church

00:38:32.560 to the desires

00:38:33.780 of this world.

00:38:35.080 And this

00:38:35.560 was a deception.

00:38:36.400 and he

00:38:38.440 was,

00:38:39.220 I don't know

00:38:39.780 which intention

00:38:40.600 he accepted

00:38:41.320 this,

00:38:42.280 but simply

00:38:42.980 an error.

00:38:44.880 And so,

00:38:46.560 and they spread

00:38:47.240 this atmosphere

00:38:48.000 and when he

00:38:48.520 became Pope,

00:38:49.260 he started

00:38:49.620 to proclaim

00:38:50.140 this.

00:38:51.140 Of course,

00:38:51.640 the Pope

00:38:51.920 is not

00:38:52.260 infallible

00:38:52.820 always,

00:38:54.060 he is only

00:38:54.460 rarely infallible

00:38:55.480 when he speaks

00:38:56.400 ex cathedrae

00:38:58.920 means when he

00:38:59.580 speaks to

00:39:00.100 the entire

00:39:00.560 church,

00:39:01.260 simply confirming

00:39:02.500 the divine

00:39:03.360 truth,

00:39:03.920 not

00:39:04.120 proclaiming

00:39:05.400 nothing new.

00:39:06.460 This is not

00:39:07.100 infallibility

00:39:07.720 of Pope.

00:39:08.440 The infallibility

00:39:09.200 of Pope

00:39:09.700 consists only

00:39:10.980 in confirming

00:39:12.680 a traditional

00:39:14.660 truth

00:39:15.360 which was

00:39:16.440 handed over

00:39:17.140 or

00:39:18.080 to

00:39:18.820 reject

00:39:20.020 a heresy

00:39:21.080 with

00:39:21.820 apostolic

00:39:22.720 authority.

00:39:23.600 Only in these

00:39:24.280 cases,

00:39:24.780 this is

00:39:25.180 infallibility.

00:39:26.060 In other

00:39:26.480 cases,

00:39:27.520 the Pope

00:39:27.840 can commit

00:39:28.500 errors.

00:39:29.660 We are

00:39:30.180 going to

00:39:30.360 take a

00:39:30.580 short commercial

00:39:31.040 break.

00:39:31.460 I'm going

00:39:31.780 to ask you

00:39:32.500 to think

00:39:33.360 about this

00:39:33.760 through the

00:39:34.060 break.

00:39:34.380 is what

00:39:35.300 Vatican II,

00:39:36.220 because in

00:39:36.900 1967,

00:39:37.620 after the

00:39:37.980 end of

00:39:38.200 Vatican II,

00:39:38.740 they get

00:39:39.520 rid of

00:39:39.780 the oath

00:39:41.020 against

00:39:41.860 modernity,

00:39:42.780 and then

00:39:43.060 two years

00:39:43.420 later,

00:39:44.240 the new

00:39:44.640 mass

00:39:45.000 arrives.

00:39:46.340 Is that

00:39:47.020 heresy,

00:39:48.540 and is

00:39:48.840 your

00:39:49.200 effort,

00:39:50.460 crusade,

00:39:51.120 fight,

00:39:51.700 to return

00:39:52.560 to a

00:39:53.520 more

00:39:53.700 traditional

00:39:54.280 way of

00:39:54.980 Catholicism,

00:39:55.760 and it's

00:39:56.020 personified in

00:39:56.840 your magnificent

00:39:58.100 book,

00:39:58.500 the Catholic

00:39:58.880 Mass,

00:39:59.820 is this a

00:40:01.760 fight that

00:40:03.740 can be won?

00:40:04.380 Be back

00:40:05.920 in a second 0.78

00:40:06.420 in the

00:40:06.760 morning.

00:40:06.940 Be back

00:40:08.000 in a second 0.78

00:40:09.320 in the

00:40:09.700 morning.

00:40:34.380 炻

00:40:36.920 cools

00:40:38.340 91

00:40:38.960 on his

00:40:40.340 day

00:40:41.240 nah

00:40:42.860 i

00:40:44.340 uni

00:40:53.020 on my

00:40:54.980 on his

00:40:55.760 hand

00:40:56.800 .

00:41:00.340 Okay, in your new book, The Catholic Mass, and I recommend this not just to Catholics and devout Catholics,

00:41:24.160 observing Catholics, but really to all Christians, I think everybody would learn something from this.

00:41:29.240 Is Vatican II, with the loss of the Oath of Modernity a couple of years later, and the new Mass that came in in 1969,

00:41:38.840 is that heresy, and is your fight to return to a more traditional, even if smaller, Catholic Church?

00:41:46.760 Are you saying that it's all heretical, what came out of Vatican II, and that your fight is to basically stand in the breach and say that we must go back?

00:41:56.400 For sure, Vatican II is not a heresy, and the new Mass is not a heresy. We have to distinguish. Heresy is a direct contradiction and denial of a divine revealed truth.

00:42:08.000 And this, Vatican II did not. And the new Mass also not. But the problem is that—

00:42:14.000 So people, Lefebvre and some people, there are people farther to the right than you that say it is. You believe they're wrong because of this—

00:42:21.000 The Archbishop Lefebvre did not say this. He did not say that there are heresies. But we have to distinguish between heresy, as I told you, is a direct denial of the divine truth, and ambiguity. So this is—

00:42:35.000 The problem with Vatican II, and then the new Mass, is they contain ambiguity. So, awakeness. So you can speak in a vague, ambiguous way about important topics. So you leave the readers, or those who will read this text of the Vatican II,

00:42:57.000 the possibility to make the possibility to make an interpretation in one side, or in a true way, or in a wrong way. And this is the problem. The vagueness. All is in gray. It is so—

00:43:13.000 And so—

00:43:14.000 Does that lead us to have pagan rituals from the Amazon conducted at the Vatican? Is that where that leads?

00:43:21.340 It can lead there. But for the Mass, as you asked me, and therefore the new Mass is a kind of a mirror reflection of what the character of the Vatican II documents—of course, I have to say we have to be just.

00:43:37.160 In the Vatican II documents, there are plenty good traditional affirmations, of course, thanks be to God. But sometimes it is sufficient, I would say, a small poison, and which can contaminate with ambiguity the rest.

00:43:54.160 And so the new Mass contains, in some parts, a very ambiguous language regarding the sacrificial character of the Mass, because the Holy Mass is substantially the celebration, sacramental celebration of the sacrifice of the cross of Christ, of our redemption, sacrificial.

00:44:19.160 And this aspect is in some way undermined and darkened in some texts, in some places of the new Mass, and in the ritual itself. And this is very regrettable.

00:44:36.160 And therefore we have to make—and there is a movement started by Archbishop Lefebvre, but not only by him, by other even movements of laypeople after the Council and until to our days.

00:44:51.160 And here in the States, in other countries, there are very beautiful and people, good people, laypeople who are very committed to restore again the clearness, the clarity, and the beauty in an ambiguity of the Catholic faith and worship.

00:45:15.160 And therefore, we have to promote again the traditional way of the Holy Mass, which is so clear and unambiguous, as a means to eliminate this vagueness, this ambiguity, which then leads, as you mentioned, also to our heresy and to some even pagan worships.

00:45:42.160 Yes.

00:45:43.160 My parents in our living room were part of that group, Catholics United for the Faith, that eventually brought—helped bring back Tridentian Catholicism, Catholic Mass back in the mid to late 70s.

00:45:54.160 How do people—besides getting the book, Sophia Press is a magnificent publisher.

00:45:59.160 You go to Sophia, we'll be making sure everybody gets access to the book, the new book on the Mass, but you've got the Vatican II, the springtime that never gave.

00:46:07.160 And of course, your journey, but really more importantly, the de-Christianization of the world. 0.97

00:46:12.160 How do people—is there a website they go to?

00:46:15.160 How do people find out more about you in your crusade to return to more traditional faith?

00:46:21.160 I have a website with the name GloriaDei.io.

00:46:26.160 And in this website are many articles and my videos about Catholic faith, and I have monthly direct broadcasting every thirteenth of the month in the evening, where I am giving a talk about Catholic faith, catechesis, and another month I am answering questions of the audience.

00:46:53.160 Well, thank you very much for joining us. We'll make sure that everybody gets access to that.

00:46:58.160 Bishop, thank you also, I think, from people in the United States for your journey here, and we look forward to seeing you again when you return.

00:47:06.160 Bishop Snyder has joined us. I want to make sure everybody goes to Sophia Press.

00:47:11.160 The latest book is The Catholic Mass, that is, The Steps to Restore the Centrality of God in the Liturgy.

00:47:18.160 And this is not just for observant Catholics or maybe wayward Catholics, cultural Catholics, but also for all Christians.

00:47:26.160 I think you will learn a lot about this.

00:47:28.160 And, of course, the other book about the Vatican II, Springtime That Never Came, one of the most controversial events of the 20th century, the Second Vatican Council.

00:47:36.160 And, of course, Christ Triumph over Darkness, all from Sophia.

00:47:40.160 Oh, this is from Anglico Press, but you can get them up on the site.

00:47:43.160 We'll make sure everybody gets access to it.

00:47:45.160 Okay, so thank you very much.

00:47:47.160 I want to really thank Real America's Voice for our special, for all the production crew and everyone in Denver.

00:47:53.160 Thank you very much, Bishop.

00:47:54.160 You're welcome.

00:47:55.160 And God bless you and your work.

00:47:57.160 Thank you, Bishop.

00:47:58.160 Thank you so much.

00:48:28.160 I love you, Bishop.

00:48:29.160 Thank you.

00:48:31.160 Thank you.

00:48:32.160 Thank you, Bishop.

00:48:34.160 To the Lord.

00:48:37.160 Thank you so much.

00:48:41.160 Thank you.

00:48:42.160 Thank you.

00:48:43.160 Thank you.

00:48:48.160 Amen.

Bannon's War Room - October 24, 2022

Episode 2248： WarRoom Sunday Special With Bishop Athanasius Schneider

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