Bannon's War Room - Episode 2647： A WarRoom Easter Special

00:00:00.920 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:05.780 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:11.020 Here's what I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:15.300 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:17.220 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:18.640 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:21.320 It's going to happen.

00:00:22.580 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:25.980 Mega Media.

00:00:26.900 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:32.760 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:36.520 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:42.820 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

00:00:56.900 What you are saying is that I could have had a secret in mind.

00:01:02.820 To be safe, stop it.

00:01:10.420 Okay, welcome.

00:01:24.020 It is Holy Saturday, 8 April in the year of our Lord, 2023.

00:01:31.580 Welcome.

00:01:32.420 We do this special every year, and we're very honored this year to have as our guest, Dr.

00:01:38.400 Tom Williams.

00:01:39.400 Dr. Williams, before I get into it, you've written this book, and it's really, I want

00:01:43.780 to spend a better part of the hour going through the argument in the book, because I think

00:01:48.660 it is, of this weekend, the holiest weekend in the Christian calendar for people to contemplate

00:01:53.720 exactly where we are as a faith in the persecution directed towards the faith.

00:02:00.820 Walk us through, from a Catholic perspective, the importance of Holy Saturday.

00:02:05.200 You know, people know Good Friday and the crucifixion of Christ, Holy Thursday with the Last Supper 0.51

00:02:11.480 and the rest, Gethsemane, and then you've got, but Holy Saturday kind of, a lot of times

00:02:17.980 gets lost in the mix, and obviously with Easter.

00:02:21.980 But what's the importance of Holy Saturday, and particularly this belief of Christ's descent

00:02:26.680 into hell?

00:02:27.140 Yeah, there are two things.

00:02:30.140 Thank you, Steve, and it's good to be with you on this very, very holy day.

00:02:34.860 There are two traditions that go way back.

00:02:37.480 One that goes back furthest is the one you just mentioned, the idea of Christ's descent

00:02:42.340 into hell.

00:02:44.340 It's a hell that's a little different than the way we understand hell today, in the sense

00:02:48.240 that he went to lead out the souls of the just who had died before his coming.

00:02:56.380 It's a basic Christian belief that up till Christ redeemed the world, up to the time of

00:03:01.460 his suffering on the cross, all those good and holy prophets, men and women of God who

00:03:06.840 had lived since the time of Adam, since the fall of Adam and Eve, they had not been able

00:03:13.260 to go to heaven.

00:03:14.360 They had not, heaven had not been opened to them.

00:03:16.660 A savior was needed.

00:03:18.920 And the traditional understanding of that was that they were in hell, hell not as in

00:03:24.920 condemned for all time, the way we think of hell as having been judged and found unworthy,

00:03:31.360 but hell more like our understanding of limbo, the old traditional sense of kind of in a waiting

00:03:38.620 place or in a place of the dead, a Gehenna-like place. 0.78

00:03:42.940 And that Jesus goes, and there's a beautiful homily from the second century, one of the

00:03:49.640 earliest Christian texts we possess outside of biblical texts, where the author describes

00:03:55.880 Jesus talking to Adam and his conversation with him, because he is the new Adam, and inviting

00:04:03.880 him to stand up and to take his rightful place.

00:04:06.520 And then all these crowds, the multitude of the just who lived in times before Christ, 0.98

00:04:13.320 rejoicing in the salvation that has finally come to them, that they are now able to enter

00:04:18.660 heaven.

00:04:19.000 How is this, it's something that's been lost in modernity.

00:04:26.020 It's not really discussed of Holy Saturday and Christ going into, you know, going to hell to

00:04:32.400 bring, I guess, the pagans or the people that were there that hadn't had the living word of

00:04:38.600 Christ on earth when they existed, right?

00:04:40.560 The great philosophers and all that.

00:04:41.980 Why is it like so many of the other teachings, and one of the powerful things about your book

00:04:47.080 is to go back and really emphasize the early church, what happened in the early church,

00:04:53.460 the persecutions of the early church, to make sure you understand, to make sure we understand

00:04:57.300 it, particularly that it was directed at the Christian faith.

00:05:00.760 Why with modernity have people kind of lost, has Holy Saturday in the general Christian faith

00:05:07.400 overall kind of lost its place?

00:05:11.020 Well, unfortunately, Steve, I think you know that answer better than I do.

00:05:14.780 It's this kind of sunny, feel-good form of Christianity and Catholicism that is so prevalent

00:05:20.300 in our day.

00:05:21.220 We only want to talk about the nice, fuzzy-feeling kind of stories and the parables and the sheep

00:05:26.580 and the things that make us feel good.

00:05:29.760 It's not only Jesus' descent into hell that we don't talk about on Holy Saturday, we don't

00:05:34.360 talk about hell itself.

00:05:35.440 We don't talk about the possibility of condemnation.

00:05:37.760 We don't talk about judgment.

00:05:38.820 We don't talk about the eternal truths.

00:05:41.180 And this is, we're not doing justice to the fullness of the Christian message when we pass

00:05:47.240 over these essential, central teachings of the Christian and the Catholic faith.

00:05:52.560 So I think that's kind of the short answer to this.

00:05:55.560 It's also something very tough for people to understand.

00:05:59.160 You know, again, we don't talk about hell at all, but look, in the Apostles' Creed, what

00:06:03.660 do we say, we say, he descended into hell, right?

00:06:06.540 I mean, it's actually there, but nobody goes and explains, bothers to look, what does that

00:06:11.200 even mean, right?

00:06:12.300 This idea that there was an entire human race of those who had been deemed just, whether

00:06:19.060 they were, as you say, the pagan philosophers and those who were just Gentiles, if you will,

00:06:24.460 but also all the Jewish patriarchs and prophets, all the Jewish holy people who had not been

00:06:30.960 able to enter heaven until Christ opened it for them.

00:06:35.080 This is something absolutely remarkable and wonderful, and it is mysterious.

00:06:39.720 It's something that is very hard to understand, but it's something that is at the core of what

00:06:44.760 we believe as Christians, and it's so good that you bring this back by having us talk about

00:06:49.300 this on Holy Saturday.

00:06:51.280 A second thing, I'll say this just as kind of a segue so we can go back to the other as

00:06:56.200 well.

00:06:57.280 Another part of the Christian tradition is a great devotion to Mary on Holy Saturday.

00:07:04.760 There's been, for many centuries, a devotion of special consolation to the Blessed Virgin Mary,

00:07:11.500 who knows a sorrow and an abandonment on Holy Saturday that the rest of humanity does not experience.

00:07:18.880 And the reason that Saturday has always been considered Mary's day, the day after her passion,

00:07:27.560 in a way, was on Saturday and Christ's passion was on Friday.

00:07:31.980 That's why we celebrate the Immaculate Heart of Mary always on a Saturday, the day after we

00:07:36.580 celebrate the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

00:07:38.360 It's her sharing in the passion, but also in a particular way of having Jesus, her son,

00:07:44.780 taken from her, this day of mourning, this day of loss, when she experiences this desolation

00:07:52.780 of soul because her beloved son Jesus has been taken from her.

00:07:56.960 She watched him suffer and die, and now he's laid in a tomb.

00:08:00.520 And so there is also that beautiful tradition of consolation to the Blessed Virgin Mary, particularly

00:08:06.460 on that Saturday.

00:08:10.680 Dr. Williams, so much of your book goes back to what was it about Christianity that had the

00:08:23.300 Roman state actually make it an official part of policy to persecute it?

00:08:29.120 And I want to get into what the Christian message was and why it was so different as an organized

00:08:34.180 faith, because I think it relates to your message is really, and the subtitle of your book is

00:08:39.800 very chilling.

00:08:40.520 It's called The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.97

00:08:43.460 The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.92

00:08:45.960 And the subtitle, why things are getting worse and how to prepare for what is to come.

00:08:52.160 And I can tell you, and I've known Dr. Williams for a long time, is that this is an incredibly

00:08:56.960 chilling book because of the intellectual rigor you bring to this topic.

00:09:02.160 The reason I wanted to do this on Holy Saturday with you is given this, what's just happened

00:09:07.160 in Nashville at the Christian school.

00:09:10.980 And more and more information comes out about this.

00:09:13.840 The young woman who did it obviously planned it, planned it for a while.

00:09:17.900 She had gone to the school.

00:09:19.100 I think she was actually in counseling with the pastor, one of the senior people there.

00:09:24.680 And it looks to many people in the United States, and nobody wants to talk about it,

00:09:29.900 and they certainly won't let it be talked about in the mainstream media, that this persecution

00:09:34.700 of Christians, we're actually entering a quite dangerous phase of it, particularly when the 1.00

00:09:40.220 mainstream media has said, well, you know, it's Tom Williams and Steve Bannon and these

00:09:45.500 Dr. Taylor Marshall, all these people are all Christian nationalists, right?

00:09:53.220 And they're the dangers. 0.98

00:09:54.100 They're the domestic terrorists. 0.82

00:09:56.200 Walk me through why your book really, quite frankly, you give people a heads up that the

00:10:02.460 Nashvilles of the world are not going to be the exception. 1.00

00:10:05.300 They're going to be the rule, sir.

00:10:06.700 Well, that is, yeah, that is the unfortunate reality.

00:10:10.720 It's not a very cheery book.

00:10:12.800 It's meant to be an honest book.

00:10:14.280 It's meant to be a book that digs in, and also, in a way, a hopeful book in the sense

00:10:20.020 that Christians are always called to live by hope, and especially when things get darkest.

00:10:24.400 But the reality is that things are simply getting worse.

00:10:28.220 And they're getting worse in a particular way, in an accelerated way, in the post-Christian 1.00

00:10:33.480 West.

00:10:34.100 And it's what I find most distressing.

00:10:36.260 There have always been active persecutions among non-believers, among other religions

00:10:41.140 that find Christianity intolerable, among atheist communist regimes.

00:10:46.800 This is something that we know exists, and we're, in a way, prepared for that.

00:10:51.040 What we're less prepared for, I think, is our own society, which was founded on principles

00:10:56.140 of religious liberty, founded on the worship of God.

00:10:59.020 I mean, the first pilgrims who came over did so because they wanted to be able to worship

00:11:02.680 in peace and freedom.

00:11:05.020 That society itself turning against Christians and using, as you say, this language to tar

00:11:10.920 Christians as being the problem, as the obstacles to progress, as, you know, really as bigots, 1.00

00:11:17.920 as Christian nationalists, as white supremacists, all the different epithets that you want to 0.98

00:11:22.580 apply to Christians to make Christians out to be the bad guy. 0.92

00:11:26.860 And what do we do with the bad guy? 0.98

00:11:28.320 The bad guy, like the ogre in the fairy tales, has to be eliminated. 0.99

00:11:32.140 You call out your pitchforks, and you chase them out of town, you string them up, you kill 1.00

00:11:36.420 them. 0.99

00:11:36.960 And this is something that, unfortunately, we often look at as just, this is rhetorical,

00:11:44.100 but it's not just rhetorical.

00:11:45.520 And it's so easy once you've kind of painted Christians in this way, Christians who take 0.99

00:11:50.840 their faith seriously, I'm not talking about the accommodated Christians who go along with 1.00

00:11:56.200 the radical secularist agenda, but those who really take their faith seriously will be

00:12:00.740 more and more portrayed as the enemy, and a dangerous enemy, and a dangerous enemy must

00:12:06.400 be fought tooth and nail.

00:12:08.960 And I think the Covenant School in Nashville is a perfect example of this, because that

00:12:14.840 rhetoric, that anti-Christian rhetoric, which sometimes gets very, very abusive and very

00:12:18.960 violent among the LGBT and particularly the transgender lobby, it becomes something that

00:12:27.580 the enemy has to be eliminated.

00:12:29.520 And we see examples of it.

00:12:31.700 In this case, this is not the first attack by a transgender person. 0.69

00:12:34.900 And as you noted also, the mainstream media will always go back and rewrite the narrative.

00:12:39.980 They will always paint the transgender person as the victim.

00:12:44.520 Oh, because they're so ostracized in society, because Christians have been speaking against

00:12:50.240 them for so long.

00:12:51.120 It's just natural. 0.89

00:12:52.420 It's just that Christians would finally get their comeuppance and that people like this 1.00

00:12:56.820 would rebel against them.

00:12:59.900 Were you, we're going to go to break here in a second.

00:13:02.500 Were you shocked?

00:13:04.060 I guess you were not about how the media handled, because here we are, you know, last week in

00:13:10.060 the nation's capital, just yards from where we do the show, there was, there was going

00:13:15.500 to be this, a transgender day, I think of violence or vengeance, transgender day of vengeance. 1.00

00:13:21.680 It was canceled last week.

00:13:24.280 We've demanded that the manifesto, because she wrote a manifesto, that that be released.

00:13:29.420 They're suppressing that.

00:13:30.260 They don't want to put that out.

00:13:32.000 Were you shocked about how the coverage of this went down?

00:13:35.880 There's no mention at all about it really being a Christian school and an attack upon

00:13:39.100 Christianity, sir.

00:13:41.820 Well, no, it's, it played out like, you know, this kind of dystopian reality where everything

00:13:47.500 is twisted.

00:13:49.140 At the beginning, no one wanted to say that she was transgender.

00:13:53.260 No one wanted to say that she identified as a male, as a man.

00:13:56.480 This is something that they suppressed for a while, and then it became just common knowledge,

00:14:00.920 and so that was the narrative that was given.

00:14:04.300 Weirdly, they did not refer to her as a man.

00:14:07.860 In any of these stories, for some reason, they took her biological sex as the reality, perhaps

00:14:13.940 because that's the way the police report initially portrayed it, but at least that was true to the

00:14:20.140 facts.

00:14:21.320 But the fact that they completely flipped on its head, they didn't want to talk about,

00:14:27.080 again, the Christian school, that there was a targeted anti-Christian attack, and that 0.83

00:14:32.100 the perpetrator was transgender. 0.75

00:14:34.640 And then later on, as you say, there's still this confusion as to motive.

00:14:38.260 I mean, I think the motive's fairly self-evident.

00:14:40.500 But the fact that we actually have a document, a text, the manifesto, and that there won't

00:14:46.000 be these things.

00:14:46.360 Yes, the manifesto.

00:14:48.640 Tom, just hang on for one second.

00:14:50.380 We're taking a short commercial break.

00:14:52.100 It's our Holy Saturday special, The Descent into Hell, The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.97

00:14:56.940 Tom Williams is our guest.

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00:16:53.220 Okay, welcome back.

00:16:55.160 It's Holy Saturday.

00:16:57.460 We are talking about the persecution of the Christians on the day in the calendar that is

00:17:04.380 Christ's descent into hell before the resurrection tomorrow.

00:17:09.800 Dr. Tom Williams joins us from Rome, is the author of this new book about the coming persecution

00:17:14.980 of Christians.

00:17:15.700 He's written a number of books before.

00:17:17.080 Nothing this, Tom, nothing this, I'm not saying dark, but this book grabs you, and you realize

00:17:25.780 because a lot of people would say, well, Christianity's being persecuted right now.

00:17:30.240 You actually say, well, you ain't seen nothing yet.

00:17:32.960 I want to go back to this concept, and it gets bandied about a lot, but I would like you to

00:17:37.480 define it for our audience.

00:17:40.060 The post-Christian West. 0.95

00:17:43.280 What do you mean about post-Christian?

00:17:45.080 How did we get there?

00:17:47.020 Because we think of the Judeo-Christian West as a society and culture really predicated

00:17:52.800 upon, you know, Athens, Jerusalem, and Rome, and, you know, how was that formed?

00:18:01.160 What did it mean?

00:18:01.800 And why do you say, and can point to, that we're in a post-Christian society?

00:18:07.760 Well, I think, Steve, that this is the United States, this is Europe.

00:18:12.740 These are the former Christendom, if you will.

00:18:16.700 The societies that were built on, as you say, in a particular way, Athens and Jerusalem and

00:18:23.040 Rome, and especially in terms of its legal tradition, these were brought—this was the 0.98

00:18:29.160 humus, if you will, in which this society grew.

00:18:32.980 It was based on a Christian understanding of the human person, on society, on the family,

00:18:38.980 on the state, and the relationship between the state and the individual.

00:18:42.280 These were principles that come from the Judeo-Christian tradition, and that were accepted as just,

00:18:49.480 in the West, as a common heritage and a common-sense approach to reality.

00:18:55.240 This is the way the world was understood.

00:18:57.220 The world was intelligible because it was made by an intelligent being, that there was—you

00:19:03.500 could see God's footprints everywhere, his fingerprints on his creation, that man was

00:19:10.420 created male and female, that the family was one man and one woman and their children, that

00:19:17.280 life has value and dignity and must be defended and upheld, that people should love their country.

00:19:26.660 St. Thomas Aquinas speaks about that.

00:19:29.460 He says, the same way you love your parents, you love your country because your country gave

00:19:35.500 birth to you.

00:19:36.380 He speaks of the word piety in terms of loving your country, this piety toward your country.

00:19:42.380 All these different virtues and values that were part and parcel of the Christian tradition,

00:19:47.020 which are now vanishing.

00:19:49.200 They're evaporating before our very eyes in a very hostile mentality, one that is anti-Christian,

00:19:56.660 it is post-Christian.

00:19:57.660 And for a while, I think we were sort of content to live in this post-Christian kind of miasma 0.98

00:20:03.740 situation where, yeah, we kind of know where we came from, but even if we get rid of those

00:20:09.180 roots, we can still live off the benefits of those basic beliefs.

00:20:14.760 But now, it's more and more hostile.

00:20:17.460 They want to reinvent the founding of the nation.

00:20:19.260 They want to reinvent the principles.

00:20:20.860 They want to negate the good and make it look like everything grew out of evil and that

00:20:27.360 everything needs to be restarted in a new name.

00:20:30.700 I think it's a very, very evil and extremely dangerous project, the one that is coming now

00:20:37.180 in what is not just the post-Christian West, but is becoming more and more the anti-Christian

00:20:43.660 West, where Christianity is looked upon as the enemy, where Christians are looked upon

00:20:48.140 as obstacles to progress, as people who, as one author likes to call it, you know, are

00:20:54.540 stuck in the Bronze Age with this Bronze Age Bible of myths and stories, this very dangerous 0.99

00:21:02.080 attachment to an obscurantist past, and not allowing this radical secularist agenda to

00:21:09.940 unfold.

00:21:10.720 And that's the kind of battle that we're headed for right now.

00:21:16.480 How did, talk to us about the first century church.

00:21:19.500 What was it about Christianity that was different?

00:21:22.240 What was it about Christianity that caused the first persecution, the great persecution

00:21:27.080 and everything that led up to that?

00:21:28.920 Because in understanding that, you can then begin to understand the coming Christian persecution.

00:21:34.740 That's essentially the thesis of your book, right?

00:21:36.660 You must go back in time and understand what differentiated this from other religions, what

00:21:41.500 differentiated this as a faith, to see the strong reaction of the Roman state against

00:21:48.060 it leading up to the great persecution, sir.

00:21:51.680 The Roman Empire was all about assimilation. 1.00

00:21:54.700 It was all about, it was a very tolerant state as far as it goes, in the sense that as long

00:22:00.240 as you can integrate your beliefs, your belief system, your religion into this greater pluralist

00:22:07.000 Roman society, as long as you're willing also to sacrifice to the emperor and to burn 1.00

00:22:13.860 incense to the emperor, as long as this is part of it, you can have your little cults and

00:22:18.240 your rituals and your diverse things.

00:22:21.080 We're very open-minded.

00:22:22.920 But your allegiance must first be to the state, and it must be to Caesar, who is divine.

00:22:27.480 And Christians obviously could not abide by this, and it was primarily their higher allegiance 1.00

00:22:36.040 to God that in the end put them in a situation of necessary conflict with the Roman state.

00:22:42.840 The other group that somehow escaped this, and scholars give an answer to why they escaped

00:22:48.700 it, were the Jews living within the Roman Empire.

00:22:52.040 And the reason was, they would technically have been illegal as well, because of their

00:22:57.420 unwillingness, obviously, to sacrifice to other gods other than Yahweh.

00:23:01.940 The difference was that whereas the Jews were content to kind of keep to themselves, they 0.98

00:23:08.420 were not a proselytizing faith.

00:23:11.000 They were not going out there to make converts.

00:23:13.060 They were not preaching on the streets.

00:23:15.280 They were not bringing people into the fold.

00:23:18.380 The Christians were the exact opposite. 0.99

00:23:20.300 So you had Christians, and this really alarmed powers within the Roman Empire, whether they

00:23:26.360 were emperors themselves or local governors at different times, the persecutions ebbed

00:23:30.960 and flowed.

00:23:32.140 But the problem was, so many people were converting.

00:23:36.060 Christianity was so powerful and so attractive that you had people from the very poorest to 1.00

00:23:41.780 the patricians and the very wealthy.

00:23:44.500 It was something that spanned every class and every social group so that you had soldiers

00:23:51.840 and you had politicians and you had artists and you had literary figures, all being very

00:23:59.060 attractive and coming into the Christian fold. 0.98

00:24:02.140 And so this was something that really caught the attention of the powers of the Roman Empire

00:24:07.940 and was looked upon as something that could not be tolerated.

00:24:10.780 And again, there were times when it became extraordinarily hostile, when they would hunt down Christians

00:24:17.640 wherever they could find them.

00:24:19.380 At other times, even some of the more considered to be more enlightened and benevolent, the emperor

00:24:24.880 is like Trajan.

00:24:26.520 Trajan's philosophy was, and he writes this to Pliny the Elder in a letter that we still have,

00:24:34.160 he says, you know, don't hunt them down.

00:24:36.380 But, you know, if they are brought before, if there are complaints made, if you find out about them,

00:24:41.120 bring them in and make sure that they are willing to sacrifice the emperor.

00:24:45.160 Make sure they're willing to abjure this higher allegiance to their god, or they shall be prosecuted 0.98

00:24:51.400 and they will be put to death. 0.71

00:24:53.320 And this is something that even under the more enlightened emperors this happened.

00:24:56.720 One of the things about the book that's very chilling is to show that some of the emperors,

00:25:03.160 and it's almost like the modern world, they understand these Christians have the deep faith,

00:25:07.360 but they're kind of saying, hey, all you've got to do is light some incense.

00:25:11.120 All you have to do, you don't have to give up what you really believe.

00:25:13.360 You just have to light some incense.

00:25:15.100 You just have to be performative and we'll look the other way and you can go along and lead your life.

00:25:20.380 And it's obviously more important to lead your life and have your community if you just do this performative.

00:25:25.160 And about the Christians have said, I can't do that. 0.53

00:25:28.100 That is to the core of it.

00:25:29.740 It's very chilling because many of the Roman emperors, many of the Roman officials make a quite modern argument, right?

00:25:38.000 They just be performative.

00:25:39.480 Just do this so that we can get past it because we're not that interested in snuffing you out.

00:25:45.280 We just want to get past this.

00:25:47.160 And what's amazing is the Christians have said, I'm not doing that. 0.97

00:25:51.020 That light one thing of incense in front of a statue, not just the polytheism, but a statue of Augustus Caesar or whatever emperors at the time cuts to the core of my being.

00:26:05.920 It's very chilling that the Christians had the option and were dangled often, not all the time, but dangled the option of just be performative and go about your business. 0.99

00:26:14.320 They said, no, that that it's performative to you, but it cuts to the core of my faith and I won't do it.

00:26:20.100 And they were then and they told him, hey, you're going to have the most heinous tortures if you don't.

00:26:25.240 And they said, hey, it's it is what it is.

00:26:28.220 Tom Williams.

00:26:30.360 Yeah.

00:26:30.700 And this unfortunately, this is exactly what we see today.

00:26:33.960 There will always be the great temptation for modern Christians is accommodation. 0.99

00:26:39.300 It is that willingness to do the modern equivalent of burning some incense before the statue of Caesar.

00:26:47.320 And this is something that's why the Dick Durbin's and the Nancy Pelosi's and the Joe Biden's of this world are embraced by radical secularists.

00:26:56.800 This is a Christianity that they can live with. 0.95

00:26:59.080 Oh, you've got a rosary in your pocket.

00:27:00.600 You're my kind of Christian because obviously your Christian faith does not impinge upon any of your moral beliefs, any of your political stances.

00:27:09.120 It is something that doesn't change who you are.

00:27:11.700 And so we like you.

00:27:13.260 We will embrace you because you are willing to burn that incense to Caesar. 0.97

00:27:18.460 And for Christians who take their faith seriously, they are the enemy. 1.00

00:27:21.780 If you're, you know, Amy Coney Barrett and you come in and the dogma lives loudly in you, you are not acceptable.

00:27:28.460 We will not give you a place at this table.

00:27:30.940 We will do everything we can to thwart your rise here because we don't trust you, because we disqualify you because of that faith, because of that deeply held belief, because of that devotion that you feel.

00:27:44.200 You are not able to be unbiased.

00:27:45.780 You're going to be problematic in your rulings because of that faith that you possess.

00:27:52.380 So we see how, you know, history really does repeat itself.

00:27:56.720 It is those Christians who are willing to live by their faith and take it seriously enough, they are the ones who are going to suffer for it. 1.00

00:28:02.720 And if you're willing to accommodate, if you're willing to say, hey, you know, whatever, we can't stop progress.

00:28:08.640 If this is the way society is going, let's just all get on board.

00:28:11.700 Let's get on the bus and they'll let us keep our rosaries. 0.62

00:28:14.340 You know, those are the ones who are going to do just fine.

00:28:19.620 Hang on, Tom, we're going to take a break.

00:28:22.540 We're going to talk about, by the way, we wouldn't have had Christianity bequeathed to us as it was if the early church had been accommodationist.

00:28:32.300 They weren't.

00:28:33.620 They would not accommodate.

00:28:35.040 And that led to the rise of the Judeo-Christian West. 0.88

00:28:38.380 Short break.

00:28:39.060 Dr. Tom Williams on the other side.

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00:30:18.080 Okay, it is Holy Saturday, 8 April in the year of our Lord, 2023.

00:30:40.200 This is our annual tradition of Christ's descent into hell.

00:30:43.920 We always have a special guest that can walk us through some of the issues that the church faces.

00:30:49.420 When someone of a profound thinker as Tom Williams actually takes a year or two of his life to write a book about the coming Christian persecution,

00:30:59.380 why things are getting worse, and how to prepare for what is to come.

00:31:02.560 First, I want to deal with how is it getting worse?

00:31:06.600 What are the signs of that?

00:31:07.800 What should we be looking for before we pivot to how do you prepare for it?

00:31:12.380 Tom, where do you think we are?

00:31:14.340 Because I think a lot of Christians are just waking up to the fact of this is serious.

00:31:18.600 And I think the Covenant School shooting is just the first of several things that now people can kind of tie these together to say,

00:31:26.300 I see something that's quite dangerous here, in particular the language that's being used, sir.

00:31:30.380 You know, the basic thesis of the book, Steve, is that the drivers of Christian persecution are intensifying.

00:31:40.060 And the traditional and historic bastions against Christian persecution, those that uphold religious liberty,

00:31:47.440 those that defend and protect Christians, are weakening.

00:31:51.300 And these two things going hand in hand set up a situation where things cannot but get worse.

00:31:59.960 And there's a problem which, you know, I hope this book will address this problem, will alleviate in some way this problem,

00:32:05.700 the widespread ignorance as to the magnitude of the problem.

00:32:09.660 People do not realize how many Christians are actively persecuted around the world,

00:32:14.560 and how this persecution, which is very bloody in many places, is becoming bloody right before our eyes,

00:32:22.680 even in the post-Christian West, even where persecution used to mean, for a Westerner,

00:32:28.180 you know, a little ostracization, a little bit of ridicule in the academy,

00:32:31.780 a little bit of, oh, isn't that sweet, that, you know, devout kind of benighted figure.

00:32:37.560 And now it's something that becomes more and more hostile, more and more aggressive.

00:32:41.640 And we are going to see more of this kind of violent attack, because there are no voices speaking out on behalf of Christians. 0.87

00:32:49.380 Christians are considered to be a majority.

00:32:52.540 They're considered to be wellstanding.

00:32:54.720 They're considered to be able to take care of themselves.

00:32:57.580 And as soon as Christians start raising their voices and say, this is not a good situation,

00:33:01.760 the way that Christianity is being portrayed and the dangerous rhetoric being used,

00:33:07.040 then you get the stop whining. 0.71

00:33:09.300 You know, don't be a whiner. 0.90

00:33:10.680 Don't complain about your situation.

00:33:12.360 And even among many Christians, they're held back in speaking the truth about what is going on,

00:33:17.560 because they don't want to look like that.

00:33:19.720 They don't want to be the one who's complaining or shining a light on that very, very problematic area.

00:33:27.840 Tell me about when you say the institutions that used to be there to prevent this are not there anymore,

00:33:33.060 that this is starting to ramp up and they're not there.

00:33:35.620 What do you mean by that?

00:33:36.760 Well, let's start with the Western media.

00:33:40.340 The Western media simply ignores, but ignores, I don't really believe that it's because people don't know what's going on.

00:33:48.140 There's an unwillingness to investigate and there's an unwillingness to report on the reality of Christian persecution around the world.

00:33:55.020 It's something that is intentionally withheld from people.

00:33:58.560 And so we talk, I talk to people all the time, very right thinking, good people who have no concept of the reality of Christian persecution in the world.

00:34:08.180 They just do not understand how widespread it is, how violent it is, how terrible and terrifying it is in the world, because they never hear about it.

00:34:17.340 They don't happen to read, you know, websites, the Christian website that actually investigate this, those reports that come out, which are never covered, obviously, on mainstream media.

00:34:29.220 But one of the reasons, but hang on, but one of the reasons they don't know it is that it's not preached from the pulpit.

00:34:36.140 It's not preached in the evangelical church.

00:34:37.920 It's not preached in the Catholic church.

00:34:39.700 It's, you know, all you hear, and particularly in the Catholic church, some in the more mainstream Protestant church, is dialogue, right?

00:34:46.300 It's dialogue.

00:34:47.400 You never hear this coming from the Vatican.

00:34:49.320 You never hear it preached on virtually any pulpit of a Catholic church on a Sunday.

00:34:54.160 You very rarely hear it from any of the evangelical or even the outside of the mainstream Christian preachers, unless somebody is tied to missionary work in sub-Saharan Africa, or they're tied to missionary work in the Middle East, like in Iraq.

00:35:11.880 I mean, is it one of the reasons we're not hearing it?

00:35:14.780 It's not just the mainstream media is in the media's fault.

00:35:17.680 The church, there's something about the church is not putting this front and center is that, hey, there's a problem here.

00:35:24.380 They're coming after us in a very organized way, whether that is in communist China, in sub-Saharan Africa, in eradication of the Christians in the cradle of Christianity, which is the Near East or the Middle East.

00:35:37.740 I mean, isn't one of the central things to hear that either because they're afraid to talk about it or they like their international organizations and they don't want to be out there actually defending Christianity, that the more official aspects of the Christian and Catholic church won't address this?

00:35:58.820 Well, you're absolutely right, Steve.

00:36:00.840 I think there is a very strong tendency to want to assimilate, to want to just get along, to want to say this brotherhood of man.

00:36:10.440 It's like John Lennon's Imagine.

00:36:12.040 Everybody, it's so prevalent in mainstream Christianity, this sense of, you know, we're all the same.

00:36:20.040 The religions are all basically the same, all different paths to God. 1.00

00:36:24.300 One's just as good as another.

00:36:26.640 Nothing should separate us.

00:36:28.120 Nothing, we shouldn't be arguing about this.

00:36:29.900 We shouldn't be, you know, pointing out differences.

00:36:33.320 We shouldn't be living out to the full who we are.

00:36:37.140 We should be willing to accommodate and to bend and to fit in.

00:36:40.500 This is, this is, this is, see, this is what the emperors, this is what the savvy and smart emperors, cunning emperors in the, in the, in the first century and second century offered up was the accommodation.

00:36:52.060 Just be performative.

00:36:53.280 All you got to do is burn a little bit of incense.

00:36:55.500 You don't even, they didn't even demand that you believe it.

00:36:58.260 All you have to do is just give me, give me a little burn there in the dish and go about your merry way. 0.92

00:37:03.580 Isn't that exactly what's happened here with the, with the institutional church in, in the 21st century when the church is under, as you make in the book, one of the things that's most compelling.

00:37:13.060 You actually make the case that the persecution today in the 21st century is probably worse in any metric you want to, want to look at than, than in the first and second century of the early church, sir.

00:37:26.680 Yes. Well, that is, that is, that's, I think, verifiably, statistically true.

00:37:32.960 It's just the, the pervasiveness of, of Christian persecution in the world.

00:37:37.000 The fact that 75% of people who are persecuted for whatever faith they belong to happen to be Christians, that there are some 360 million Christians who live under severe persecution in danger of their lives every day.

00:37:49.840 These are, these are facts and figures that are, that are so startling and so, but again, so unknown.

00:37:56.180 This is really the untold story that so many people are ignorant of.

00:38:00.380 But I agree with you.

00:38:01.560 And look, you know, the Catholic Catholics in the, in the United States, we have a whole history of this.

00:38:05.980 There's always been a temptation because Catholics were very persecuted early on as, as, you know, the Irish and the Polish and the, and sometimes Germans.

00:38:13.620 And they did everything in their power to make it look like, oh, I'm, I'm first an American and then I'm a Catholic, right?

00:38:20.100 And this was, this was a temptation.

00:38:22.080 It was a temptation to fit into assimilate, to make it show that you're a better citizen, show that you're, and this, we got John F. Kennedy out of this, you know, the one who said, you know, I'm not, I'm first an American, I'm going to be an American.

00:38:33.420 And, and this is something that there's always been a struggle in kind of the Catholic spirit in the U.S., but it's only more recently the evangelicals and the Protestants have joined in that same timidness and that same unwillingness to say, you know, I am a Christian and I uphold, and my allegiance to Jesus Christ is actually superior to any other allegiance as I have.

00:38:54.620 And it's what makes me a good citizen, what makes me a loyal patriot is because I actually do believe, and I believe that I should be loyal to my nation.

00:39:03.960 But this is something that we're very afraid of right now.

00:39:06.920 We're so afraid of not fitting in.

00:39:08.740 We're so afraid of being considered to be obscurantists, to be considered to be, you know, less cool than the academics who say that this is something that's very passe.

00:39:19.960 We all want to fit in.

00:39:21.300 And this is, this is the great temptation of our day.

00:39:23.560 And it's why so few people are willing to stand up and be counted and just say, hey, yeah, I'm an educated person and I am a Christian and I believe in the creed.

00:39:33.420 I recite it on Sunday and I believe it.

00:39:35.500 And I try to, you know, base my life around this because these are the truths that actually give firm grounding to my existence and explain reality to me.

00:39:44.660 This is what explains human existence and my personal existence in the most cogent, coherent way that I've ever seen that I can imagine.

00:39:53.160 But many Christians don't want to do that.

00:39:54.960 They want to keep that away in the little catacombs of their house.

00:39:58.360 And when they walk out on the street, they want to look like everybody else.

00:40:02.060 They don't want to be seen as somehow different because it's dangerous.

00:40:06.420 It's it's uncomfortable to be different.

00:40:09.380 But this is the world we live in and we have to stand up or else we're going to get the situation that we're getting right now.

00:40:15.760 Did you see any because I know you follow this and we follow it quite closely.

00:40:21.600 Do you remember any big names in either the institutional Protestant church or the Catholic church or even come up and condemn what happened against the children at the Covenant School?

00:40:35.100 Was there any outrage at all in the Christian community as far as you saw it?

00:40:38.440 One person that I saw, and I do follow this as closely as I can, Franklin Graham, whom I'm a big fan of.

00:40:46.980 I think he's he's a worthy scion of his father.

00:40:50.480 I did did make a couple of very interesting Facebook posts.

00:40:55.740 He's got 10 million followers and he brought this up and said that was he said evil walked into that school that day.

00:41:02.260 He actually was very poetic and very, you know, stern in the way that he described the situation.

00:41:10.340 I mean, he hasn't gone into the whole question of this transgender in the way that the mainstream media are addressing it.

00:41:18.240 But he did definitely come down very, very hard and brought up the fact that these were Christians who were killed because they were Christians.

00:41:25.240 I mean, is it your warning is why things are going to get worse?

00:41:31.620 Isn't one of the reasons it's going to get worse because Christian leadership, Christian leadership in the Catholic church, the mainstream Protestant churches, leading evangelicals were to basically draw a line now and say this is going to stop on our watch.

00:41:47.000 Isn't that one of the most important things?

00:41:48.880 Isn't that the beginning of stopping it getting worse?

00:41:53.160 Absolutely.

00:41:53.600 Absolutely. But part of the reason it's going to get worse is because we're just not seeing that.

00:41:58.460 And I think that even when an isolated Christian leader or a Catholic bishop in some diocese stands up and makes, you know, makes a strong case right now, those bishops are not getting support from Rome.

00:42:11.800 They're not getting support.

00:42:13.000 If you're a Protestant pastor, you're not getting support from your community.

00:42:16.120 You're not getting support from the other pastors.

00:42:18.120 You're very much alone.

00:42:19.440 You're like a Jeremiah preaching and you're not feeling like you're getting a lot of love for that.

00:42:24.960 You're not getting a lot of support.

00:42:26.440 And I think that that is the reason this very tiny minority of those who are willing to speak out.

00:42:31.860 We're just not seeing the kind of leadership we need right now to bring attention to the dire reality that we're living.

00:42:37.920 Tom, if you could hang on for a second, we're going to take a short commercial break.

00:42:43.940 We've got Dr. Tom Williams, who's the author of many, many books, principally about theology.

00:42:49.340 He's written this really for crisis, crisis publication, the coming Christian persecution with someone as deep and profound as Dr.

00:42:59.500 Williams takes on about the persecution of the Christian church, particularly the subtitle, why things are getting worse and how to prepare for what is to come.

00:43:09.540 If you're if you're a believing Christian is quite stark book, but a must read and more importantly, must understand the argument.

00:43:19.420 OK, we're going to take a short commercial break.

00:43:21.500 We're going to return in the world.

00:43:23.140 This is our special every year.

00:43:25.180 We do this on Holy Saturday as we await as we await Easter Sunday, the the descent into hell.

00:43:34.460 So we're going to take a short commercial break.

00:43:35.860 We'll be back in a moment.

00:43:39.540 We'll be back in a moment.

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00:44:47.200 OK, all weekend, we're going to be up on Getter.

00:44:58.420 So make sure people can download it, download it for free and and check it out.

00:45:02.680 It's our Holy Saturday special.

00:45:04.520 Dr.

00:45:04.740 Williams will stay for this block in the beginning of the of the next block.

00:45:07.420 Dr.

00:45:09.160 Why did why did why was Christianity able to survive the immense persecution of the Roman state, particularly that era called the Great Persecution?

00:45:19.240 In your mind, why?

00:45:20.560 Why was it able to persevere then?

00:45:23.760 And what lessons does that have for modern man?

00:45:26.820 Well, the short answer, I think, is that fantastic line from the Christian apologist, Tertullian, who said that the blood of martyrs is the seed of Christians.

00:45:41.100 And that not only does that not stop us when we're persecuted, it actually makes us stronger.

00:45:49.520 It makes us multiply.

00:45:50.440 And I think that that was something that Tertullian could say because he saw it happening around him.

00:45:56.620 And I think what it really was was not the persecution itself, but it was the the witness of those who are willing to die for their faith was so compelling.

00:46:07.120 When so many people are just worried about saving their own skin, just worried about the comforts in their life, just worried about making their way through, not getting any bad attention, those who are willing to actually shed their blood for Jesus Christ and for their belief in him.

00:46:23.480 That was something that was something that I think inspired many, many generations of followers to want to share in that same sort of devotion, that same sort of all or nothing spirit of what it really means to to to to be a Christian.

00:46:40.380 And I think that that is something that we see in different generations as well.

00:46:45.040 I think that wherever there are these very violent and very harsh persecutions, when you have these great saints that arise in those situations, those who are willing to suffer something for the name of Jesus, that that's something that really does bear great, great fruit.

00:47:01.100 I think both because of the human witness that it provides and also, I think, the grace of God that actually acts through that and inspires many people to want to live the same way.

00:47:11.240 You talk about the difference between red, red and white martyrdom.

00:47:17.560 Can you explain that to the audience?

00:47:20.080 Yeah, this is something that St. Jerome coined the expression, red martyrdom has to do with blood.

00:47:26.980 Red is because shedding one's blood.

00:47:29.460 So if you are put to death, if you're put on a cross, if you're, you know, whatever it might be, the different many different creative forms by which Christians have been killed down to the centuries, whether it was the beasts or the rack or whatever it might have been.

00:47:44.160 That's red martyrdom.

00:47:45.140 White martyrdom is a sort of persecution where you don't actually shed your blood, but you live in a constant situation of discomfort, of harassment, of hostility, of people making your life really unpleasant and an unwillingness to change in the face of that.

00:48:05.440 So these pressures that are put upon Christians, again, to conform, to accommodate, those who are unwilling to do so often live a sort of white martyrdom because, you know, they lose their professorship or they, you know, are treated in a different way and they're looked down upon and ostracized because of those different beliefs.

00:48:25.480 Persecution takes many forms, sometimes the more insidious, sometimes the more blatant and open and violent, but all of it constitute a way of bearing witness to Christ in the world and being willing to suffer something for that.

00:48:41.520 Tom, can you hang on?

00:48:42.740 We're going to take a short commercial break and we're going to be back.

00:48:46.320 I want to get into the last part is how to prepare for what is to come because you're saying worst is to come.

00:48:51.380 Two things.

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00:50:00.380 Also, normally over the weekend, we do a quite in-depth look at capital markets and economics, obviously, for Holy Week.

00:50:09.820 We hold that in abeyance.

00:50:11.040 We're going to get into much more of that on Monday and Tuesday of next week.

00:50:13.940 But make sure you go to birchgold.com slash Bannon.

00:50:19.220 You can get all the free information, particularly it's a great time to start to study up, immerse yourself in all the information we're putting out there about the end of the dollar empire.

00:50:29.120 Part of the reason that the Roman Empire was so powerful was its currency.

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00:50:36.180 The dollar is under an amazing assault from what I call the Legion of Doom.

00:50:40.620 A lot of this is because of the actions of the Biden regime and others on Wall Street that have gotten us into this terrible situation.

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00:51:00.880 All the different information about precious metals as a hedge to inflation and a hedge to all the madness you see in capital markets today.

00:51:10.000 And, you know, we should note that gold is is nearing a all time high.

00:51:14.360 So make sure you go to birchgold.com slash Bannon.

00:51:16.780 This is all information.

00:51:18.440 We don't tell you what to do.

00:51:19.420 What we do is point you in the direction of working with the best folks.

00:51:23.220 They get a A plus rating and better business bureau.

00:51:25.900 Short commercial break.

00:51:27.040 A very somber message and probably the most somber day, two days, good Friday and Holy Saturday in the Christian calendar.

00:51:35.740 Dr. Tom Williams, a noted modern theologian, is with us in a very disturbing book, The Coming Christian Persecution.

00:51:44.320 We'll continue on after a short 90-second break.

00:51:46.520 A very somber day, two days, good Friday and a half.

00:52:17.040 War Room Posse, you already know free speech is under constant attack by The Swamp and their big tech allies.

00:52:23.960 They resell your communications and personal data while lecturing and laughing at you.

00:52:28.840 I've got the solution.

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00:52:54.660 Go to their website, unplugged.com.

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00:53:04.320 It's the way we stay connected and informed.

00:53:06.940 Get it now.

00:53:08.080 Take action, action, action.

00:53:10.180 Use your agency.

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00:53:29.400 Yes, heart disease is the number one killer every year, year in and year out.

00:53:33.220 Heart disease builds over time.

00:53:35.220 Hypertension, high blood pressure, bad cholesterol, diabetes, all of it affects our heart.

00:53:40.520 A healthy heart is key to being energetic as we get older.

00:53:44.960 It is never too early to take care of your heart.

00:53:48.300 You see, heart disease sneaks up on us.

00:53:51.260 You can start in your 30s, and when this happens, you're at serious risk by the time you turn 60.

00:53:54.940 If you want to take care of your heart and those you care about, please go to warroomhealth.com.

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00:54:15.880 Warroomhealth, all one word, warroomhealth.com.

00:54:19.140 Go there today.

00:54:20.780 You need, if you're going to be part of the posse, you need a strong heart.

00:54:23.820 You need a lion's heart.

00:54:25.560 How we're going to do that is with Salty.

00:54:27.860 Go there.

00:54:28.500 Do it today.

00:54:29.140 Check it out.

00:54:29.580 You need a Yogya. 0.99

00:54:31.420 Do it today.

00:54:37.060 Know you.

00:54:37.340 Do it today.

00:54:39.620 Know you.

00:54:41.220 It's not going to be part of the Len 110.

Bannon's War Room - April 08, 2023

Episode 2647： A WarRoom Easter Special

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